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  • File :1210391860.jpg-(122 KB, 920x570, imperial comparison.jpg)
    122 KB Anonymous 05/09/08(Fri)23:57 No.1697978  
    I'm running a dark heresy game /tg/, an i was looking for advice on a small matter. On a smallish imperial warship or transport, how many decks and how much of those decks might passengers/ cargo have access to as opposed to crew?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:03 No.1698003
    Imperial ships usually have heritage based crews who have their own customs and are comrades only in the loosest sense. Like, the engineers might be cannibals. If I was on an Imperial ship I would go where they told me and not move a fucking inch until it was time to leave.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:06 No.1698011
    Imperial ships are known to have entire civilizations of feral humans lurking the underbelly of the ship, the descendants of crewman from decades past.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:06 No.1698012
    >>1697978
    Basically in DH you have a mandate of the Inquisitor; you are Emperor's will made manifest. What's with this "am I allowed to do that"?
    >> Lord Admiral Ravensburg 05/10/08(Sat)00:07 No.1698016
    >>1698003
    >>time to leave
    >>leave

    Hah!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:07 No.1698017
    >>1698012

    You are "allowed to do that" but you need to clean up the shit that happens after. If you blow up a few planets, you have to have a good explanation.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:12 No.1698040
    >>1698017
    How can you blow shit up before explaining?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:13 No.1698045
    >>1698040
    with explosives
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:14 No.1698048
    >>1698040

    Lemme reword that.

    Inquisitor blows shit up ---> Shit blows up ---> Inquisitor explains why shit was needed exploded.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:15 No.1698052
         File :1210392914.gif-(1.69 MB, 800x800, 1203915387498.gif)
    1.69 MB
    >>1697978
    Your pic is off scale OP

    Examine this anim♥♥ted
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:15 No.1698053
    >>1698012

    Because if another Inquisitor decides he doesn't like how your face looks, you can be taken to task.

    You aren't acting in a vaccuum so stop pretending you are.
    >> Meatbread !gFRG2WW112 05/10/08(Sat)00:15 No.1698054
    >>1698012
    Doesn't quite work that way in DH. You play Newfags in DH, and we see how well that goes over here. Ive used a commissar to "disagree" with a newfag acolyte before. some worlds have ways of making problems go away...
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:16 No.1698068
    >>1698048
    Inquisitor can not blow up a planet all by himself.
    Or wait, or can he?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:17 No.1698072
    >>1698068

    Actually he could, probably.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:17 No.1698074
    >>1698011
    >>1698003

    So, nobody uses those parts? Or the crewmen know about those "passengers" and simply lol about it?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:18 No.1698078
         File :1210393100.gif-(608 KB, 150x113, stonecoldlaughter.gif)
    608 KB
    >>1698011
    >>1698052
    Pic related
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:18 No.1698079
    >>1698053
    How many Inquisitors do you suppose crows the sector?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:19 No.1698083
    >>1698074

    They're probably no-go zones/areas of little worth.

    If you have 50 cargo bays and one of them is inoperable and never needed because you never haul over 5, obviously things get left alone.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:19 No.1698084
    >>1698074
    The crew probably keep them there (read: alive) as a means to deter boarding parties without sending SPEHCE MUHREENS to deal with said boarding parties.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:20 No.1698087
    >>1698072
    I HEREBY DECLARE THE PLANET'S CORE EXCOMMUNICATED FROM EMPEROR'S LIGHT.
    *planet goes boom*
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:20 No.1698088
         File :1210393221.jpg-(297 KB, 810x1165, imperial navy.jpg)
    297 KB
    >>1698052
    no, no it's to scale. thats a destroyer in OP's pic
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:21 No.1698094
    >>1698078
    Read the fluff. It's like rats. Say they stop to pick up some volk and a pair of slaves escape into the ship. Thousand years down the line you have CHUDs in space.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:26 No.1698119
    this is all very nice, but OP's question never got answered, he's probably off crying into his DH rulebook by now..... good job assholes
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:26 No.1698122
    >>1698094

    Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:26 No.1698123
    >>1698119

    Thanks.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:27 No.1698128
    >>1698048

    "Incurable Heresy" is always a good excuse.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:27 No.1698129
    >>1698088
    Hahaha, i wonder how the battleship compares to a borg cube. /inb4shitstorm

    >>1698122
    Screams of pain and echos of gunfire must be constant. FFFFFFFFFFFFF indeed.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:29 No.1698136
    >>1698054

    With Inquisitor's Handbook, you can actually play a Commissar now.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:29 No.1698137
    >>1698129
    no one who gives a shit about 40k gives said shit about the borg and vice versa
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:29 No.1698140
    I'm completely out of the know when it comes to how many decks/holds exist in an Imperial starship, but I'm pretty sure that the Captain gives you one place you can be...and that's it. You don't go anywhere else, unless you're allowed to, like, enter the mess or something. Pretty sure everything you'd need would be in one hold, though.

    Also, it's really up to the ship's Master. So basically, you decide.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:33 No.1698162
    People seem to forget that, Inquisitorial authority or not, a ship's captain may as well be god on his own vessel. Cause trouble and you might be lost in a "tragic" bulkhead failure.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:33 No.1698171
         File :1210394037.jpg-(57 KB, 599x583, Umbra.jpg)
    57 KB
    >>1698083
    And they surprise when this shit appears in front of their very eyes...
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:35 No.1698181
    >>1698052
    I have a question!

    Why does it have a snowplow on the front?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:36 No.1698183
    >>1698181
    it's actually a cow-catcher not a snow plow
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:36 No.1698185
    >>1698181
    SPACE SNOW, NIGGER
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:36 No.1698188
    >>1698052
    seeing as the two ships pictured are about as capable agianst one another it's more of a reminder how horribly inefficient everything is in the 40k universe.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:38 No.1698193
    >>1698181
    style points
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:40 No.1698208
    >>1698188
    Super Star Destroyers are 19km long, almost twice of the Divine Retribution, and the DR is much more pwerful than the SSD.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:41 No.1698211
    >>1698181

    Armored prow for ramming and boarding.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:42 No.1698219
    >>1698119
    In the GRIMDARK future, ships are built by autistic cyborgs using 15,000 technology that they don't understand. The ships themselves are cobbled together ore freighters with drive sections which are copies of jet bike engines scaled up a million times, with energy mining drills placed along the sides in a 17th century man'o'war design. Once the functional parts of the ship are built, twice the original mass is added in useless decorations and bling. Once the finishing touches like a giant skull or 1km high eagle statue made out of solid gold are added. Techpriests spend a thousand years praying at every component, switch, and light fixture.

    No ship uses the same design or component. Not even within each ship. There's no guaranty that a switch or lever will be interchangeable with the controls in an other room of the same ship. The general layout of the ship can be best described as "mazelike", with endless deadend corridors. Entire sections of the ships can be inaccessible except through teleportation.

    Command and control is questionable at best. It's considered a lucky command to have a central bridge, as many ships have one or as many as a hundred bridges each with it's own command staff giving conflicting orders. Other ships have no bridge and simply become space hulks on their maiden voyage. Intership communication is best handled via courier missions and shuttles, as it is unlikely that the bridge (or bridges), fire control or engineering have the radio communication systems built within the same century. Traveling the maze like corridors is ill advised for bands of canibals and bandits roam the halls.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:42 No.1698220
    >>1698188
    Are you serious nigger?

    THAT ANGEL LIFTS IT'S SWORD AND IT IS A WEAPON MORE POWERFUL THEN THE DEATH STAR. I SHOT YOU NOT THE ANGEL IS MECHANICAL AND THE SWORD IS A GUN

    in b4 beltznzippers
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:45 No.1698237
         File :1210394753.png-(2.42 MB, 2000x2000, bigships.png)
    2.42 MB
    >>1698088
    comparisons are fun
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:47 No.1698246
    >>1698219
    Then how the fuck can the Imperium have a competent navy if all their ships are that shit?
    Hell, even Ork Roks look like magical science compared to that.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:55 No.1698275
    >>1698246

    Because there are a lot of them.

    A lot.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:56 No.1698279
    >>1698136
    I don't remember reading that...
    I know it added the SoB, but I don't remember it adding Commissars.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)00:58 No.1698287
    >>1698219
    >Other ships have no bridge and simply become space hulks on their maiden voyage.

    I think I lolled my pants.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:00 No.1698294
    >>1698246
    Not every ship in the Imperial Navy is a byzantine maze of mystery. Most ships do develop their own cultures, but not all of them degrade into cannibalism. Though no two ships are alike in the Imperium, the crew eventually learns what each button and lever does and passes this knowledge down to the next generation, thereby ensuring that nobody presses the "Vent Atmosphere" button.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:03 No.1698306
    >>1698219

    Fuckin lolled
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:13 No.1698339
         File :1210396389.jpg-(11 KB, 480x362, fuckedup.jpg)
    11 KB
    >>1698219
    So... Dwarf Fortress, wrapped up into a single ship, and put in to outer space?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:18 No.1698344
    >>1698339
    but with less elephants
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:19 No.1698347
    >>1698294
    Except for the Commissar.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:26 No.1698370
    ZOMBIE CARP ON SPACESHIPS
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:27 No.1698372
    >>1698339

    Don't get him started on fires aboard ship.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:31 No.1698380
    >>1698219
    This is why the Imperium is awesome.
    >> Odlaw 05/10/08(Sat)01:33 No.1698389
    >>1698372
    In the barracks training with plasma weapons, a gets hot roll is failed causing the guardsman using the weapon to catch fire and die, soon the chefs, the clerks, the mechanics, the pilots, and the other guardsmen run up to loot his still burning corpse with still burning clothes and items. The Captain sends out an edict stating that no acquillas may be exported, and all hats must be give to him. There are no survivors.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:45 No.1698439
    >>1698389
    We need to make a DF-esque "Imperial Battleship" game...
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)01:56 No.1698485
    >>1698439
    Dude, just assume that your DF game is set in a corner of a battleship that developed its own ecosystem and culture of primitive stunted inbred midgets.

    It's only a matter of changing the fluff.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:02 No.1698523
    >>1698485

    Maybe that's where all the Stunties went OHSHI
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:07 No.1698542
    >>1698485
    The thought of some primitive culture on board an imperial ship starting to mine the ship's hull for metal is rather amusing.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:08 No.1698545
    >>1698219
    >>1698339
    FUND IT
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:14 No.1698584
    >>1698542
    *Tink* *Tink* *Tink* *Ti-* HULLBREACH
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:17 No.1698593
    Hey, fuck off. I'm 5 years into a video game development project with this premise underlying the fantasy story.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:18 No.1698601
    holy shit
    i guess there is an advantage to necrons (no cultural corruption mess)
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:22 No.1698620
    >>1698601

    'course, their entire civilization is dead, so it's a moot point.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:23 No.1698626
    >>1698593
    Link or it didn't happen.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:24 No.1698627
    Some Migrants have Arrived!

    Wait what
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:26 No.1698638
    >>1698627

    strays from another tribe, of course.

    relatedly, does anyone actually try and enforce order amongst the ferals, even if only periodically?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:32 No.1698657
    >>1698638
    From the fluff, that's where they get their crews. It's like carrying a colony in the recesses of the ship.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:37 No.1698677
    I thought they manufactured the smaller classes of ships like the Cobra on almost every world at a pretty rapid pace.

    Seeing how fast those ship die in BFG it makes sense. The fluff says they produce more or less just enough ships to replace losses.

    So it stands to reason some forge world has to be churning out destroyers and frigates, and they would have some standardization.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:37 No.1698684
    >>1698626
    Dude, I'm not going to name it. It would ruin the surprise in the game's story.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:41 No.1698695
    LITANY OF LITANY'S LITANY
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:42 No.1698703
    >>1698684
    NAME IT
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:44 No.1698717
    >>1698684
    Star Ocean 3?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:45 No.1698722
    >>1698677

    They do, and there is.

    Imperial ships are massive and there are 'lost' people that live in the bowels of the ships doing who knows what. (fucking probably, its got to be boring in a ship by yourself and a few of your mates)

    But they're not the completely byzantine constructions that a previous anon made out. The imperial navy is one of the best and most drilled bunch out there. They know what the fuck they're doing because if they don't one small mistake can lead to the death of the ship itself.

    THis doesn't mean that there isn't bits of the ship that noone goes to, and bits of the ship that people don't quite know what it does etc...

    But its not as if the tech priests (and captains) are screaming 'JUST AS PLANNED' when they send crew in to get lost or something. They're pretty standard guys.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)02:49 No.1698736
    >>1698722
    Your fluff is distinctly inferior to this fluff:
    >>1698219
    >> That Damn Mouse 05/10/08(Sat)05:51 No.1699356
    >>1698219

    >>Entire sections of the ships can be inaccessible except through teleportation.

    Hide and Seek has NEVER been this fun.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)06:02 No.1699390
         File :1210413767.jpg-(195 KB, 1000x548, Gaston hollers.jpg)
    195 KB
    >>1698380

    Alright, let's head for that star... There! TO the left!

    Wait, did we forget something?

    We ain't got no bridge, cap'n.

    But we already started the warp drive!

    AAAAAAAAAAA-schlorp!-
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)06:16 No.1699428
    >>1698219
    This post have made me want to have my next DH character be a Void Born that lives on a military ship.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)06:20 No.1699441
    does anyone have any pics or size estimates of a battle barge?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)06:35 No.1699484
         File :1210415737.jpg-(171 KB, 580x364, battlebarge.jpg)
    171 KB
    >>1699441
    Size estimates are about the same as an average Imperial Battleship, so approx 7.5 to 8 km.

    A Barge is supposedly able to carry an entire chapter of marines (1000+leaders = approx 1015-1020 marines) plus serfs/vassals. That's according to the BFG section on Marines.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)06:38 No.1699487
    1699484
    thx
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:00 No.1699516
    How long does it take to build a typical battle ship? How long would it take if they were purely functional (ie w/o the useless decorations) and they skipped all the praying?

    I heard that a titan can take centuries to build whilst they *should* only take a couple of years.

    I have a feeling that the Imperium would be able to keep its enemies at bay (and even expand) quite easily if they gave up the Machine God stuff rather than clinging on by it's fingernails
    >> Phobonaut !tTBC.7oEaQ 05/10/08(Sat)07:07 No.1699530
    >>1699516
    That would kill the grimndark and would degrade this AWESOME british product into the league of filthy american pink laser crap (StarWars, StarTrek, BattleTech).
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:13 No.1699544
    >>1699516
    They probably could win but that would just be boring
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:18 No.1699564
         File :1210418280.jpg-(110 KB, 1081x380, 120444090324.jpg)
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    >>1699530
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:20 No.1699577
    >>1699516
    I heard it takes an industrial world (the ENTIRE world) more than a generation to build a large battleship. Can't find the source though
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:25 No.1699591
    >>1698279

    Commissars are an alternate rank in the guardsman class I believe. Each career path had a variant or two introduced. Plus there were also variants on the old home worlds too. Like there were rules for imperial navy dudes instead of regular Void Born and specific stats for people from Gunmetal city instead of the standard Hive World template.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:26 No.1699595
    >>1699516 I have a feeling that the Imperium would be able to keep its enemies at bay (and even expand) quite easily if they gave up the Machine God stuff rather than clinging on by it's fingernails

    well done on finally understanding the fluff about the imperium
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:27 No.1699597
    >>1699516

    It's party down to the fact only a tiny few have any idea how the shit works. When they're building it, I'm guessing they get a lot of problems, shit not working, etc. and the tech priests just go "needs more sacred oil" until it works.
    >> Random Death Star-Sized Disco ball Of Tzeentch !4T1uHiOuyE 05/10/08(Sat)07:28 No.1699600
    >>1699577
    Depends on how industrial the world is, and the size of said battleship. Emperor-class ships can take a generation or two on the larger Forge Worlds, but even a primitive world, given the right materiel, can churn out a large frigate every two decades or so.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:29 No.1699602
    >>1699577
    1,000,000 worlds in the imperium, 20 years in a generation. Let's figure 1 in 10 worlds is industrial and 1 in 10 of those is producing a ship. That's 500 ships a year or about 1.37 ships a day.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:29 No.1699607
    >>1699516
    Seeing as the Imperium has worlds that are completely covered in factories and workshops, if they were run by an efficient administration and not by a backwards, quasi-religious order, they could maybe knock out a titan per day.

    That is, if they encouraged innovation, discovery and actual intelligent thought, instead of learning by rote and ritualistic. But nooooo, the AdMech need to light incense and chant before they can press the fucking 'ON' button.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:30 No.1699608
    >>1699591
    I remember alternate ranks and new homeworlds etc etc, I just couldn't remember that Commissar was a new class (well, rank if what you say is true).
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:42 No.1699642
    >>1699607
    true but if they did that and the Imperium raped all their enemies there'll be no more GRIMDARK and 40K will turn into a Star-Trekesque shiatpile
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:49 No.1699666
    This is why I love the Imperium. When the God Emperor wakes up it will be a facepalm of EPIC proportions.
    >> All That J !!aZzGnMa0Srq 05/10/08(Sat)07:50 No.1699671
    >>1699516

    >Imperium would be able to keep its enemies at bay (and even expand) quite easily if they gave up the Machine God

    Well there's your problem. The Imperium don't cling o0n to the Machine God stuff, and also don't have their own technology or weaponry. Everything they use is controlled by the Adeptus Mechanicus, who aren't really part of the Imperium and are more like another allied state. And the Mechanicus don't even share most of their best technology as they're selfish bastards.

    The Imperium could probably rival Tau and Eldar tech if the Mecanicus were more fortcoming.
    >> Random Death Star-Sized Disco ball Of Tzeentch !4T1uHiOuyE 05/10/08(Sat)07:51 No.1699672
    >>1699607
    Actually, in the 40Kverse, al, that chanting and stuff actually makes a kind of sense. let us not forget as well the Dark Age of Technology and the Iron Men being good reminders of the dangers of innovative thought.

    ...bigods, that sounded so wrong.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)07:54 No.1699683
    >>1699671

    >The Imperium could probably rival Tau and Eldar tech if the Mecanicus were more fortcoming.

    I'm not so sure about that, only the most radical AM sects develop technology like that.

    Anyway, isn't the machine god/machine spirit stuff actually real? At least as far as Imperium tech goes?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)08:35 No.1699737
    I'm still wondering what broadband is like if it got made Grimdark
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)09:09 No.1699777
         File :1210424985.png-(10 KB, 676x512, iq_vs_religion.png)
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    >>1699683

    AdMechs aren't stupid. They are propably the most intelligent humans (er.... cyborgs) in the Imperium. I think high rank tech-priests don't believe in Machine God and machine spirits literally.
    In fact there is only one organization in the Imperium that does scientifical research - Adeptus Mechanicus.
    Most of the people are religious and think in a religious way. They wouldn't respect guys who are just cybernetised engineers and scientists and due to this Mechanicum could lose its autonomy.

    Also, mechanised inhuman creatures in red robes chanting litanies in a binary code are GRIMDARK, when a scientist with nice looking eugmentations dressed in a futuristic uniform isn't.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)09:58 No.1699850
    >>1699777
    AM is VERY anti-science, at least as far as innovation goes... which is why the Imperium's technology is so crappy - they don't innovate and they consider taking things apart to see how they work to be heretical, so they're left with old shit that only works half of the time. What they can still make often tends to be unreliable, too - look at the plasma weapons.

    Oh, and "scientifical" isn't a word.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)09:59 No.1699858
    >>1699850

    Old shit that's really fucking awesome. They only share the dregs with the Imperium as a whole. And they will innovate occasionally - Predator Annihilator, Land Raider Crusader both being examples. Plus they can find the occasional new STC.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:06 No.1699873
    For the relationship of the AM and the Imperium, see Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, particularly the part where a religion of science is used to control the masses.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:09 No.1699885
    >>1699777
    They believe in Machine Spirits, the Omnissiah etc. utterly, and are philosophically opposed to the idea of technological progress. There's some stuff explained in Dark Adeptus which is pretty cool.

    >>1699683
    Most Imperial technology does rival or surpass that certainly of the Tau. Not so the Eldar, for pretty obvious reasons.
    >> GMBartleby (BGMike) 05/10/08(Sat)10:11 No.1699890
    RE: "AdMechs aren't stupid. They are propably the most intelligent humans (er.... cyborgs) in the Imperium. I think high rank tech-priests don't believe in Machine God and machine spirits literally.
    In fact there is only one organization in the Imperium that does scientifical research - Adeptus Mechanicus.
    Most of the people are religious and think in a religious way. They wouldn't respect guys who are just cybernetised engineers and scientists and due to this Mechanicum could lose its autonomy.

    Also, mechanised inhuman creatures in red robes chanting litanies in a binary code are GRIMDARK, when a scientist with nice looking eugmentations dressed in a futuristic uniform isn't"

    If you compare 'current day' tech with '40k' tech, quite a lot of it works on the same principles.
    For example... Bolt weapons are only 'slightly' more advanced than modern munitions, and there have been reactor-drive designs for decades, just no money to experiment and transform hypothesis into theory or fact.

    Considering this I think there is a shortfall in your argument. If they didn't believe in the Omnisiah their tech certainly would be as advanced as the Tau, though maybe not as far as Eldar tech (humans have never been that good at subtlety).

    But would we enjoy it as much if they weren't so backwards? Probably not, and I'm not saying they're not intelligent either.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:12 No.1699893
    >>1699850
    The stuff they make is surprising reliable given some of it lasts centuries. Granted most weren't designed by them and they just slavishly follow rituals of maintenance to appease the machine spirits.

    >>1699858
    Innovation is INCREDIBLE slow and the AM actually slows innovation more than they help it. The only times they have produced any significant advances are when they discover STCs (which isn't really innovation on their part). Otherwise the retard advancement.

    Even when other people improve on designs (e.g. The Land Raider Crusader by the Black Templars) it can still take centuries for the AM to "Approve" the new designs. They even declared some designs "sacrosanct" in effect forbidding their replacement.

    If the AD lost their tech monopoly I think tech would advance much quicker (though it'll still be a snail's pace)
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:14 No.1699901
    >>1699890
    >as advanced as the Tau

    I hate having to explain this in every thread where the level of Tau tech is brought up and someone goes 'lol tau r moar advanced then imperium u faget'.

    Much of the Imperium's technology surpasses that of the Tau. Compare the Tau's middling-to-best technology to that of the Imperium's, and the disparity is fucking mad thanks to STC designs and humanity's 38,000 year head-start. It's only on a scale where things have to be mass-produced for the Imperial Guard where things start to even out.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:15 No.1699905
    >>1699683
    >Anyway, isn't the machine god/machine spirit stuff actually real? At least as far as Imperium tech goes?

    It does have an effect in the tabletop game but I'm not sure about what fluff says about it. Given that belief can manifest itself, such as the chaos Gods, it wouldn't be suprising.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:16 No.1699907
    >>1699905
    In Dark Adeptus the tech priest in charge of the resistance on the rogue Forge World says that he could transfer himself into certain machinery depending on the strength of it's machine-spirit, which suggests there's certainly something to it..
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:18 No.1699911
    The religious aspect to technology in the AM is like another approach to STC technology, where instead of designs on a computer database you have rituals learned by rote.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:18 No.1699913
    >>1699907
    Sometimes "machine spirit" means "Artificial Intelligence. They just can't call it that since AI is abhorred.

    I think he meant transferring his mind into the machine just like the Core from TA.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:21 No.1699921
    >>1699901
    >blah blah
    tl;dr, just because it's not shiny doesn't mean it's not advanced. GB2startrek.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:25 No.1699934
    >>1699913

    No way, just the mention of AI makes Tech-Priests go bugshit insane.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:33 No.1699957
    >>1699907
    >>1699913

    In the same way they call computer viruses 'tech courses'. Using religious teminology doesn't mean they think that it's something magical.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:35 No.1699966
    Maybe the laws of physics have actually changed since the tech was first developed, and now it's a bit like ork stuff and genuinely needs the rituals, with the machine spirit being like a lobotomised daemon that can warp reality just enough to make the machine function.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:38 No.1699975
    >>1699966
    If that was true then the Squats would've been killed off before they could get the chance to be OM NOM NO
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:41 No.1699988
    >>1699901

    Wasn't a lot of Tau tech also from the Eldar? Since they're using them, may as well equip them
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:47 No.1700001
    >>1699988
    Some of it was bought from the Demiurg, but nothing Eldar.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)10:53 No.1700015
    >>1699966

    Your theory can make some sense...

    In Dark Heresy when psyker fails at using his powers machines around may start do strange things. Tech-priests can levitate in a electromagnetic field made by their own augmentations (maglev doesn't work that way).

    There is a "magical" technology like warp drives, implants that increase resistance to psychic powers etc.
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)11:10 No.1700065
    >>1699901
    Actually it's a bit of both... the SpaceMarines might have better kit in many ways, but then Tau guns 'tend' to be better quality and their production methods are blatantly superior to anything the imperium can offer at current.
    For example, lets look at the Railgun. Its closest Imperial equivalents being the Battle Cannon and Turbo-Laser. Neither as are as flexible in terms of their uses, and the Turbo Laser is sh*tting expensive.
    They've also worked out that Plasma weapons need to be 'powered down' a little.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:14 No.1700073
    >>1700065sh*tting

    Good thing you censored that.

    Your mother could be reading.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:16 No.1700075
    >>1700001
    Eldar made the Etherials, remember?
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)11:21 No.1700086
    >>1700073
    I sincerely doubt 'my' mother would. last time she tried to go online she needed babysitting to use google! Utterly Useless!
    (I do love her really!)
    >>1700075
    Did they?
    Where can I find THAT fluff?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:22 No.1700088
    >>1700086
    Xenology.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:23 No.1700093
    >>1700075
    Go away.

    >>1700065
    Imperial gear doesn't have to be as flexible, because generally every Imperial gun is going to be one in thousands of different guns in a single force.

    Look at things from space and the disparity is so huge it's not funny. One Rogue Trader vessel almost wiped out a six-ship Tau force shortly before the start of the Damocles Gulf Crusade.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:27 No.1700108
    >>1700093
    lol, I forgot to mention that the Tau ships were only saved by a friendly ship moving into the firing arcs of the Rogue Trader guns.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:28 No.1700110
    >>1700093
    I've heard multiple times Xenology isn't canon, but still haven't heard any reason behind it.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:29 No.1700115
    >>1700110
    Never mind that Xenology /doesn't* say that the ethereals are an Eldar creation, just that their pheromone thingies are likely artificial.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)11:33 No.1700129
    >>1700115
    Artificial and exactly like the ones Eldar got from Q'Orl Queen. You haven't got to be Sherlock to match the facts.
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)12:22 No.1700344
    >>1700129
    Facts are very dependant on the story behind them... Just watch CSI (yes I am that sad).
    >>1700093
    You have a very good point... and it's probably the only reason the Imperium can survive with such poor quality manufacturing. But then I did say it's what gives them character!
    It's like the British Army Vs American Navy Command. One day they might match, though it'l probably be when the Tau(USN) have some kind of major internal collapse!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)12:25 No.1700367
    >>1700344
    >facts
    >CSI

    ಠ_ಠ
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)12:33 No.1700422
    >>1700344
    Facts are objective and do not depend on their interpretation.
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)12:55 No.1700565
    >>1700422
    An Interpretation is a Story designed to fit the facts, Change the story or add/remove facts and the whole thing changes!
    Which was my actual point.
    The story can dictate which facts are relevant as much as the facts can dictate the story. It's your view-point that's objective, not the facts!

    Gil Grissom is SO and Eldar Farseer!
    Horatio Kane is an Inquisitor Lord!
    Mac Taylor is a Tau Ethereal!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:26 No.1700728
    >>1700344
    The manufacturing isn't poor-quality for the most part. It's the new designs that suck. Not that that matters so much, since a Forge World can put out more of our inferior human gear than most of the Tau Empire in a year.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:31 No.1700758
    There's only one weapon that needs to be deployed in a war against the Tau, and that's the virus bomb.
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)13:33 No.1700776
    Forced to disagree there on one point only!
    See the Apocalypse Datasheet for the Land Raider Ares!

    Now who says the Unforgiven aren't cool!
    2x Twin Linked Heavy Flamer Anyone?

    Forward In The Name Of The Lion!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:37 No.1700800
    >>1700776
    An entire chapter based on the DNA of a gay poet. Hardkore.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:40 No.1700822
    >>1698219
    Lol wut?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:41 No.1700828
    >>1700800
    Sapphos?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:55 No.1700909
    >>1700828
    Lionel Johnson.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)13:59 No.1700927
    >>1700828
    No, that's the Adepta Sororitas.
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)14:26 No.1701048
    >>1700800
    I'm not sure whether to be insulted or gratious!
    The Dark Angels and Blood Angels are the longest lived of all the Gene-seeds and are supposed to be very artistically creative!
    I'm going to say thankyou!
    P.s. It's 'Lion El Johnson,' not Lionel! Dope!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)14:33 No.1701092
    >>1701048
    You're thick.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)14:36 No.1701103
    >>1701048
    I DO SAY, THE PRIMARCH LION EL'JONSON HAS A NAME STRIKINGLY SIMILAR TO THAT OF GAY POET LIONEL JONSON.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)14:41 No.1701133
    >>1699516
    BUT THEN WHERES DA GRIMNDARK?
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)14:41 No.1701137
    CRUISE CONTROL
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)14:47 No.1701185
    >>1701092
    And you're increasingly pathetic.
    Now can we quit with the insults?
    Afterall, I did take it as a compliment the first time round!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)15:00 No.1701278
    >>1701137
    SERIOUSLY GUYS WHAT ARE WE YELLING ABOUT
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)15:03 No.1701297
    >>1701185
    YOU'RE THICK BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET THE LIONEL JONSON THING.
    OH FUCK, NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE! NOW I'M SHOUTING TOO!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)15:05 No.1701303
         File :1210446353.jpg-(369 KB, 1200x812, 1209230332472.jpg)
    369 KB
    Let's talk about ships.
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)15:10 No.1701327
    >>1701303
    The Imperium rules the skies with mighty space cathedrals.
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)15:13 No.1701339
    >>1701297
    I got it... otherwise there'd have been no compliment to accept!
    Have a peppermint and calm down!
    (Gods that sounds camp!)
    shake?
    >> Grand Master Rabengar Bartleby 05/10/08(Sat)15:14 No.1701346
    >>1701303
    I want a battle barge... or two... or three...!
    >> Anonymous 05/10/08(Sat)15:16 No.1701356
    >>1701346
    we can have them delivered within three millenia.


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