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  • このサイトについて - 翻訳

    today marks the end of scheduled maintenance—two guys with two weeks to kill and a few hundred hours later, we're finally [mostly] done.
    page loads/image downloads should be dramatically faster. until we hit 1gbps, at least. to all of my wonderful and ungrateful users: "you're welcome."
    (note: there are still a few other things i'll be working on so expect intermittent downtime)
    ps: thanks so much to mvb for all of the help and support.

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    51 KB Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)11:50 No.3382385  
    Hey, /tg/.

    What do you think is more likely to happen in the future?

    The human race gets to a point where it stagnates and doesn't change either on an intellectual or physical level despite having the resources to do so, a la 40k.


    Scifi writers like Harry Turtledove (lol scalies and time traveling South Africans) are right to highlight how much shit has changed in the past century and we are a dynamic species as long as we don't run out of resources to work with, kind of like Transmet.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)11:52 No.3382391
    We're going to be The Culture.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)11:52 No.3382395
    I think 40k is a legitimate scientific journal.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)11:53 No.3382404
    We will become a hive mind.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)11:56 No.3382416
    We will wage WWIV with sticks and stones... STICKS AND STONES I SAY.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)11:58 No.3382425
    I'm thinking humanity will split when we get up in space due to the restrictions of long distance travel/communication. So it's entirely possible we'll get all of the possibilities, though on different worlds/colonies.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:02 No.3382448
    WWIV is of course a huge PvP event in the latest worldwide virtual reality game "World of war and crafts". And the winners get 1.000.000 DCs and free (1 year) teleport passes.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:07 No.3382472
    I think humans are selfish pieces of shit and that will not change in the future. I predict what few humans are left after the mass die off of all species on earth (due to ecological disaster) will be cybernetic beings living off whatever power they can gather. Mostly they will use their advanced cyberbrains to play VR sex games.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:15 No.3382520
    Personally I think there is plenty of room for advancement in 40k, the Imperium is so vast it has room for just about every type of advancement, from a famous playwrite on a hive world to a people on a feudal world who learn they can throw spears better than anyone else due to mutated arm muscles. Don't forget psykers either.

    At least humans in 40k met aliens to fight and help keep them developing, if you really want depressing look at Battletech (as much as I love it).

    1000 years of humans fighting other humans, with no real tech advances being made except in warfare. Factions are still fighting enemies from 2700, learn to consolidate ffs.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:16 No.3382532

    Sounds emo to me
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:21 No.3382557
    With the advent of safe and easy genetic engineering, furries will become real (instead of just people dressed up)
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:22 No.3382569

    I hope to fuck not.

    At least in my fucking life time.

    Too many fucking wolves.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:30 No.3382599

    some of the disdain I feel for furries is BECAUSE they dress up. I would actually feel better about it if they, in fact, were part animal. and of course because they are no longer genetically human they are not entitled to the same rights and privileges. YOU 20th CENTURY FAGS DON'T KNOW WHAT FURSECUTION IS!
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:33 No.3382609

    As of current, the highest probabilities seem to be. . .

    A) Within 40 to 100 years we hit singularity. We become as close to godlike within the physical limits of the universe as is possible — outcomes may include immortality, conversion of humans to computer entities, superluminal travel, altering physics and general dickery. Prerequisites for this stage include nanomachines and Artificial Intelligence.

    B) We all die.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:34 No.3382624
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    THIS !!!
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:36 No.3382630

    hard take off is a fag

    soft take off was here
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)12:36 No.3382634

    I hope for A

    it is the kind of thing I'm starting to study in college
    >> Mediocrates !!tG3QhWVtE/n 01/12/09(Mon)12:46 No.3382695
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    take offs are fags

    bootstrapping alien tech was here
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:02 No.3382771
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    Pierson's puppeteer!

    Anyway... every generation of humans ever has thought the world was about to end or change forever. With the exception of those who lived through the fall of Rome, every generation has been wrong about this.

    For this reason alone, it seems unlikely that we will hit singularity or kill ourselves off within the next 100 years.

    What I see coming is eventual diversification. When genetic augmentation becomes available, some will take advantage of it and some won't. When mind-machine interfaces become available, some will get plugged and some won't. Humanity will stratify and metastasize, growing in a range; from those who abandon their humanity and even their physical bodies and copy and modify their minds endlessly, forming entire societies of variant selves within simulations, to the Amish on the other end of the scale. And expect a whole lot of weirdness in between. And, yes, genetically modified furries.

    Yeah, eventually some of us will go posthuman. That doesn't mean there won't be humans any more. There are still chimpanzees, after all.

    How far are YOU willing to change?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:04 No.3382787
    I have become so influenced and inspired by the Emp0r3r of mankind, that i actually believe in his totalitarian vision. Humans are stupid, evil, mischievous bastards who would sell their own mothers for some crappy shit they don't even need.
    They are a herd that needs to be directed, tended to, and sometimes culled.
    I suggest we start the Ordo Hereticus right here, right now.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:05 No.3382795
    >as long as we don't run out of resources

    Good luck with that.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:07 No.3382803
    >genetically modified furries
    well, that would actually be better. they would be easier to spot, and thus avoid, and their fetish would be based on something real instead of completely random bullshit like it is now, meaning less stupid coming out of it (hopefully).
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:08 No.3382809

    PROTIP: the God-Emperor of Mankind is nothing like the current rulership of the Imperium. the Lords of Terra are going to be in so much trouble when He gets back.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:11 No.3382822
    There is a nice area out there beyond mars with lots of raw materials
    >> Phobonaut !tTBC.7oEaQ 01/12/09(Mon)13:12 No.3382831
    >How far are YOU willing to change?
    Immortality, regeneration, raised immunity against diseases, stronger body, greater strength, faster muscles, better eyesight, better brains, resistance against cosmic radiation.

    That'll help me on my travels.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:14 No.3382842
    A half-century has passed since Earth began moving its burgeoning population into gigantic orbiting space colonies. A new home for mankind, where people are born and raised.
    And die.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:15 No.3382849


    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:16 No.3382855
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:17 No.3382857
    Surprised someone picked up on it so fast
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:17 No.3382860

    I'm not a furry but I would totally bang a furry skinned catgirl.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:18 No.3382867
    >I'm not a furry

    Keep telling yourself that.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:22 No.3382881
    >I'm not a furry but I would totally be a furry skinned catgirl.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:24 No.3382900
    Is.....Is that The Stig?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:25 No.3382906
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    Yeah... gotta say, if I live long enough I'm looking forward to some variety in the female form. Considering how much humans are motivated by sex, it's gonna get pretty /d/ on this planet.


    Kinda going about it backwards, aren't you? Rather than upgrade every bit, just trade in for a better model. A metal model. Become the spaceship, sail the stars as an uploaded personality; don't worry about rads or food or boredom (pause your mind during long distances or inhabit a simulation while you're en route.) If you're really attached to the idea of flesh, keep a couple clone bodies on ice and download into them when you make planetfall.

    But... after an age of living without pain, discomfort, sweat, and shit... will you ever want to?
    >> Sonderling Creed !BQ3sED2yVs 01/12/09(Mon)13:28 No.3382924
    Foglet, hijacking other people's nervous systems when necessary.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:28 No.3382925

    Oh god... Like the fucking fist of the northstar.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:28 No.3382928
    I once read a quote from an engineer saying that he couldn't possibly see how technology could possibly advance much further than it has. The engineer was an ancient Roman though.
    >> Phobonaut !tTBC.7oEaQ 01/12/09(Mon)13:30 No.3382943
    If you're going down that road, just imprint my conscience into a nanocloud.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:31 No.3382944

    We got a jackerfog douchebag on the ship, venting atmo!
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:32 No.3382946
    The future is uncertain, all we can do is wait and see.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:32 No.3382949

    It's almost certainly going to happen.

    Not everyone will go along with it to be certain, but they'll be effective non-entities compared to those who do. While the Amish and Chimpanzees still exist, they've been effectively marginalized, the chimps by the evolution of a smarter, tool making cousin and the Amish by advances in technology. Those who elect to remain behind will doubtlessly find themselves in a similar state, but that's their priority and is a perfectly valid choice.

    Personally, I think surrendering one's personal authority and ability for action in exchange for a feeling of comfort/familiarity is a dumb choice, but again, whatever.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:33 No.3382951
    No i meant the Emperor, not the idiots in power now. The HUMAN race must flourish, expand, and conquer the stars. High Lords of Terra have humanity stagnating, and not having any type of progress.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:33 No.3382954
    I agree. All humans shall become gods or corpses within 100 years.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:34 No.3382955

    Hmm... I personally see nanoclouds as a bit further down the line than uploads and downloads. Unless we cure death in the next 150 years, I doubt I'll see them.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:35 No.3382968

    please consider

    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:36 No.3382972
    We'll run out of resources before we are able to develop technology to harvest those of the planets in our immediate vicinity, and that will mark the beginning of the decline of our scientific progress.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:37 No.3382985
    A aint putting myself in any body too big to conveniently hide in a populated area, should shit go to shittiest. Also, I aint going full robot because I'm taking the best parts of being a biological too- Crazy tough bones, Lubricants that kick all the ass, photoreceptors and other such things. Hopefully, it won't actually need to eat or shit.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:38 No.3382990
    >Yeah... gotta say, if I live long enough I'm looking forward to some variety in the female form. Considering how much humans are motivated by sex, it's gonna get pretty /d/ on this planet.

    *Fap fap fap*
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:39 No.3383003
    so, you just ignore how much faster we're developing technology than ever before? wow.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:39 No.3383008
    A) will happen and the human race will rot and decay under the control of the New World Order as it is already happening.

    Medical developments have already ground into a halt. Despite research proving benefits of plants and herbs to treat diseases and disorders, its DRUGS DRUGS CHEMO TRANSPLANT DNA TREATMENTS and all of it expensive.

    Simply put... Smoking weed is a much more effective and cost effective (cheap) solution than the $30 prescription pill.

    tl;dr Humanity is already dead.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:42 No.3383030
    Actually, I live in the mountains, use whatever herbs, and rig myself up home-made cybernetics and retrovirii. I'm gonna fucking evolve, or die trying. I already glow in the dark when I tense the hell up, no more not seeing shit in the night.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:44 No.3383044
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    >Personally, I think surrendering one's personal authority and ability for action in exchange for a feeling of comfort/familiarity is a dumb choice, but again, whatever.

    If you had to choose between giving up your power and giving up your humanity... which would you choose?

    How far can you modify yourself before you've killed the person you started with? Do you care?

    Is the bizarre mix of instinct, confusion, and flickering sentience that makes a mind human simply evidence that we're unrefined, a crude first attempt at intelligence that needs to be improved upon, or is it something beautiful? I ask the question honestly, I'm not sure myself.

    What can you change about our minds without changing what we are? Imagine how different you would be with a perfect memory. Imagine that you could adjust the intensity of your own emotions, toning them down before they made you do something stupid. If you turned them off, and experienced true clarity of thought for the first time, would you ever reactivate them? Imagine telepathy; not "psychic," but technology-based data transfer from mind to mind. To see ourselves as others see us...

    Would you fight to stay human, or discard the bonds of mortal life and mind and become something else?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:44 No.3383053
    Have you noticed how we were living a growth in the scientific discoveries?
    Our growth 'rate' - so to say - of SCIENCE doubled every 6 months!

    Key words?
    >... were living...

    We are, globally, experiencing a 'drawback' of that growth rate. We have attained hardware that is so powerful that we don't have software for it and...
    ... Frankly? We don't need that much power in terms of software. At least, not now.
    >> Maus !!E/1DGx6ERSC 01/12/09(Mon)13:44 No.3383055
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:45 No.3383057
    >how far can you modify yourself

    As far as I goddamn want. As long as my consciousness remains constant through any brain-meddling, I'm sure I never died. And, unlike all of you faggots, I'm not afraid of change.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:47 No.3383075
    I don't believe it. If I find such a thing is true, I will lead an armed revolt. And we WILL. HAVE. SCIENCE!
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:48 No.3383079
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    Soft take off Singularity.

    Well that or its gon look a bit GURPS: Transhuman Space around here.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:48 No.3383081
    But if that's what we do, the next logical step is to unite as one and then, we'd be nothing but A.I.
    We'd loose our identities.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:50 No.3383098
    By killing the scientists who know all about SCIENCE, amirite?

    Oh, you...
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:50 No.3383100
    fuck that, I'm filling at LEAST my corporeal mind at all times. I might also expand my consciousness to outside of it, and THAT part might mix freely with all the others, but bodies 1-8 will still all be me- or, at least, until we lose the mind-link.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:51 No.3383110

    Oh god, not this ridiculous NWO bullshit.

    Besides, modern pharmaceutical technology is going to be DESTROYED by nanites. And, for that matter, so will traditional herbology. Seriously, this shit will not only cure your ills, it'll improve upon you.

    Gentlemen, we have the technology... almost.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:52 No.3383114
    who says I'm killing scientists? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. There are, what, less than five scientists per a thousand people? What're the chances of accidentally hitting them? Especially if they're off away from the others in some research facility, makes it especially easy to avoid 'em.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:53 No.3383122
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    "No one will ever need more than a megabyte of RAM."

    and also


    As has been previously mentioned, the "things were better in the past, everything's going to shit now" and "we are approaching the end of the world" arguements have been made by every generation, every generation since mankind was intelligent enough to argue, and it has always been wrong.

    Now our tech is advancing faster than it ever has (naturally, because scientific advancement is an exponential process,) and people are STILL saying the end is near and there is nothing left to discover.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:53 No.3383129

    Emotions are pretty useless, they only get in the way of productivity and efficiency.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:54 No.3383132
    Idunno, I'll keep some of my emotions. Like, say, being a dick. I just don't think I could give that one up.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:55 No.3383150
    nuclear holocaust, everyone dies...
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:56 No.3383162
    haha, my family's been adding on to it's fallout bunker since the cold war. We will be a... VAULT!
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:57 No.3383166
    Emotions are the fuel which drives innovation. With no Desire, we'd be humping hairy chicks in a cave.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)13:57 No.3383170
    But the civilians buy those nice shiny products made by powerful companies that waste their much exceeded money on Scientific research.
    After all, it's the private company that runs the world of science, not the governments.

    Well, I've read something about this. If you make a copy of your mind, it isn't you. It's a copy, not the original content. If you copy your identity - life experience and inherent knowledge - into another body, it'd be simply a perfect clone.

    Same with the virtual-brain. It wouldn't be you. Unless, you know, they did found ways to link your brain to someplace. Still... I have no idea how they would extract your identity out of you without making a copy, just... You know, 'cutting', 'pasting'.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:01 No.3383203
    >"No one will ever need more than a megabyte of RAM."

    Wait, wat?
    Bill said that? What a douche. He knew very well that we were at the gates of the Information Age, i.e: The age were we all try to gather as much information, of all kinds and creeds and what-not, as possible just to, you know, store it and have easy access.

    That's one of the main reasons we need that many memory. To be able to archive the stuff and be QUICK to get it back to your screen.
    Thankfully, though.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:02 No.3383210

    We are continuity.

    Certainly there is the base of us, those subconscious reactions and instincts atop which our intelligence is layered. But what renders us human is experience. It is that which adds definition, individuality and vibrancy. More than anything it is this that makes us human, and though I will inevitably change, as long as that continuity of memory remains unbroken, I will remain myself, even if that me is different than I am now.

    For I know that I can, and will, change, even as I am now, as I learn and experience the world around me.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:04 No.3383219
    Honestly? I don't care. If science is slowing, and I get an armed revolt, the -ENTIRE- system goes down. The scientists will keep working, now they don't have to be slaves to what's fucking PROFITABLE. the viagra researchers are disenfranchised.

    What the hell do you think the MINDLINK is for? The original me never has its consciousness interrupted, so I never die, and instead simply expand to fill eight bodies. Probably work my way up from two, then three, and so on. I mean, if we're connected by goddamn RADIO, my thought-process is never interrupted and we're all the same consciousness- same damn person. Even if the original dies, its thought process remains continuous and held amongst the others until such time as it can be consciously transferred into a new one. As long as you don't go under during any of these operations, and can supervise your own state of mind the entire way, you will not die.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:04 No.3383223

    I fail to see the problem with this. :D
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:05 No.3383233
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    I hear this thread is my kind of place.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:07 No.3383245
    >The scientists will keep working, now they don't have to be slaves to what's fucking PROFITABLE.

    You really think that? They might do it as a hobby but they sure as fuck won't do it full-time if they're not getting paid unless they're already rich.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:08 No.3383248
    hell, I probably wouldn't mind the original me dying at that point anyway, the original mind is still seven men smart, seven men strong, and entirely conscious.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:14 No.3383281
    >unless they're already rich

    dude, I said I'm taking down the entire system. Everyone but scientists and my scientifically-trained armed whatever. That means that there aren't swarms of shitbags around and there's enough material wealth for everybody just lyin' around. The only thing that the scientists would want for would be things that require masses to maintain- and even then, there would be supplies to last quite a while before we have to start producing again, or make something automated to do it.

    And the scientists WILL work, with as little coercion as possible. what determines that is whether or not they decide to keep the research up.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:14 No.3383286
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    I'm frightened already.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:15 No.3383291
    >The scientists will keep working, now they don't have to be slaves to what's fucking PROFITABLE

    Yeah. the persuit of profit really slowed things down in the 19th and 20th centuries.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:16 No.3383298
    Basically, given a choice between extreme luxury with as much funding as the world could offer plus getting to the technological singularity and progressively worse quality of life until you comply, which do you choose?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:17 No.3383308
    They are now motivated by GET SINGULARITY AND INFINITE LUXURY AND PROFIT or YOUR RACE IS DEEEEAD. they're just not profiting in a way that's with currency.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:21 No.3383334
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    Here's something to consider.

    I have a mental condition that's generally considered a disorder. My grandmother had it, my aunt has it, it runs in the family, it's not Aspergers.

    It changes the way I think and feel, and it can be controlled with medication.

    When I'm on the meds I'm normal, functional... happy, even.

    When I'm off the meds I'm... erratic. It's difficult to hold down a job or stay in school. I have good days and bad days; on the bad days I just try to avoid anyone I know so I don't alienate my friends.

    And on the good days I'm myself. And I find that, except in the pit of the bad times when I'm drowning in hate and crazy shame and feel like I've swallowed handfulls of broken glass, I'd rather do without the meds. I'd rather be fucked up and myself than normal or better. I don't LIKE being like this, but the "disorder" is part of who the fuck I am.

    So, think of all the things that are wrong with you. Are you forgetful? Do you lie to people you care about? Do you get angry when you shouldn't? Without the organs squirting chemicals into you and the random failing and recombination of your neural connections, none of that would happen.

    Someday soon science will let you choose between yourself and yourself, better. Soon after that, choosing to keep your flaws will be seen as unreasonable; dangerous, even.

    You can be perfect, immortal, and sane, or you can be human. Take the leap and you won't want the things you used to want, love the things you used to love, be the person you used to be. Will you?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:23 No.3383348
    >Take the leap and you won't want the things you used to want, love the things you used to love, be the person you used to be. Will you?

    Gladly. ;(
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:24 No.3383351
    I track down and obliterate personal flaws as best as I can when they happen. I'm not the best at it, but finally technology is going to pick up my goddamned slack. I will be as a god, and all those who will not simply lack the strength of will.
    >> Major Maxillary !!eorO1kqUwyR 01/12/09(Mon)14:25 No.3383355

    Fuck yes sextuple breasts and weird yet still fuckable faces!

    I'd certainly miss the feeling of the inside of a wet vagina after a while.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:25 No.3383356

    Poor bastard, all that and Asperger's too.

    You're on /tg/. Don't deny it.

    I will now tell you about all vaguely relevant characters I've played since 1987.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:25 No.3383359
    you kiddin'? A moist hyper-suckhole is WAAAY better!
    >> GTVA Colossus !moot/UIi/o 01/12/09(Mon)14:28 No.3383374
    You aren't the person you used to be a day ago, motherfucker. Life is change.

    Besides, at the point where you think they'll be classed as 'dangerous', society will have changed enough so that they won't be. Hell, they'll be downloading disorders to try them out.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:29 No.3383384
    yeah, I wouldn't mind giving hallucinations a try for a day or two. OOO, or being manic! I've always wanted to be manic!
    >> Major Maxillary !!eorO1kqUwyR 01/12/09(Mon)14:30 No.3383386

    I have some mental issues that I don't even know what it is.

    every day is a bad day for me, but whenever I got put on medication it was even worse because not only did they not work, they also made me feel like nothing. as in nothing at all, like I didn't exist except in theory, it's really hard to discribe, but it's like when a medication makes you feel empty, but 100% worse.

    I actually function better without the meds, and I'm much happier. I've learned to live and work around the "disability" that I refer more as a "handicap" and I can't imagine myself without it, as it's because of how I think, how I function, and is part of my like my hand is part of me.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:34 No.3383413
    I wake up every morning with the need to vomit. I hold it in and go shit two, maybe three times. I then moan in pain for an hour, and continue about my day. I have as of yet found no medication for this. Robobody all the way.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:36 No.3383424

    Another perspective on meds: I'm on'em for depression, and ever since I found one that works reasonably well I've been working on the depression.

    And I'm making progress, but without the meds I'd've been pretty much fucked.

    For me, meds and their side effects are something I can put up with when I'm pretty sure it's not on a permanent basis.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:37 No.3383427



    In effect, I believe that I can improve upon myself. If I find myself engaging in behaviors I don't like, I try and change my ways. And even if my emotional state were to be so erratic as to make me feel as if I were a different person, even if I later wonder what the hell I was thinking, that memory is part of me. Part of my continuity.

    It is part of what defines me, and as long as that remains, I remain myself, even if my behavior radically alters.


    Because the line of continuity, the memories and experiences the define me would remain, leading me to the point at which I now stood.

    Besides, this is totally a false dichotomy. Why and how would this make me less human, and why should keeping traits I find undesirable about myself be necessary for remaining human?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:37 No.3383430
    I use mind altering substances daily, for recreation. I intend to use mind-altering conditions daily, if it is ever available. I WILL use whatever your damn mental condition is, and probably get a good buzz offa it.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:38 No.3383433
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    That's what recreational drugs are for. Hallucinations, manic states, dissociation, depression... all readily available from your local street pharmacist.

    They're all a bit less fun when you can't come down.

    Actually, the drug example is an angle to look into. There are a lot of people who pay a lot of money to tamper with their brain chemistry. That's probably a section of the population who'd have no qualms about changing their minds in more permanent ways.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:39 No.3383440
    hell, I'm trying to convince myself some diety exists so I can see what religion feels like. If I can get brain-uploads of insanity and such, I am SO there.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:43 No.3383470


    You had to go there, did you?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:44 No.3383474
    Actually, I know of at least one drug that shatters your psyche if you don't handle it properly- But, of course. most people do. Maybe shrooms can do it too, but I don't know.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:49 No.3383497

    Shrooms, LSD and similar stuff can get you into eternal psychosis first time you take them, if you're really unlucky.
    (Also, the mania induced from bipolar disorder etc. differs from the mania induced by speed or cocaine and such.)
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:58 No.3383561
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    Because humans are flawed, and something that's not flawed isn't human?

    I doubt that will convince you, so try this. None of your desires are sane. They're irrational compulsions. Some of them you can rationalize (I want to keep living because I want to experience more things! I want to experience more things because I'm... curious? But "curious" just means "I want to know more" which is the same as "I want to experience more things..." So why am I curious?) but the core is the drives that have been scored into our psyche's by evolution.

    At heart, everything you want is a flaw in you; a chain binding you to irrational action.

    Eliminate your flaws and you wind up not wanting anything, even to continue existing. The perfectly sane attitude towards all of existence is total indifference and complete lack of motivation.

    Buddhists say this is a good thing, that heaven is achieved when you free yourself from all desire. They say that once you reach that perfect point, your self ceases to be.

    Do you want that kind of perfection? Do you want, not only to die, but to piece by piece erase yourself?

    Maybe you do. I can almost see the appeal. But then, today's not a good day.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:58 No.3383563

    And, even if it doesn't completely shatter your psyche, you'll never view reality the same. I tripped on salvia twice, and one time i believed i was controlling some external entity whose world was ending, and the other i believed i was being controlled by some external entity who was attempting to end the world.

    Everythings been different since.

    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)14:59 No.3383579
    the solution is to eliminate my flaws. I'll keep curiosity, greed, and all the enjoyable ones.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:00 No.3383582
    All salvia gave ME was a ten minute seisure :C
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:03 No.3383608

    So how do you decide what's a flaw and what's essential? Most impulses humans have are useful in SOME situation.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:05 No.3383617

    in b4 Haruhi
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:07 No.3383632
    well, it's quite simple. I enjoy being a dick often. I enjoy being greedy often. I enjoy being curious often. I don't enjoy anger so much, I'll put that one on an on/off switch. I enjoy, also, being a nice guy (not a dick) often, so I'll keep that part too. Ditchin' most of fear 'cept for the parts that give me adrenaline, (maybe) getting rid of the sex drive, or if not that, turning my hedonism up by three or four notches.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:12 No.3383678

    This makes no god damn sense.


    You act as though I completely dislike everything about myself, but that's completely false. There are many things I like about myself, and why would I be rid of those? You may say, everything is a flaw, but if I like some aspect of my personality, than obviously I do not consider it a flaw. More than that... just, what?

    I'm not even sure how I could achieve such a state without annihilating my own history, but even so your automatic conclusion that the only possible result is removing every last trace of humanity from whomsoever pursues a post-human state is so horrendously flawed I don't even fucking know where to begin.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:13 No.3383688
    I'd probably change what emotions are or are not allowed based on deigns of my will, or if I don't got them, a random selector. You know, change 'em up to regularly sample them, and then ditch any ones you find you don't like at the moment. 'Till your next randomization.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:23 No.3383765
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    The problem is that you're altering the part of yourself that makes decisions.

    You begin as you are, choosing what parts of you are to be removed. You remove those parts. Now you're a saner, better person... and as a saner, better person, you see flaws you didn't before. Maybe now that you've gotten rid of your inferiority complex, your dickish tendencies seem less enjoyable and more like a problem. So you do so. Once again, you're a saner, better person than you were before. And once again, now that your mind's a little clearer, you can see a flaw you didn't think was a flaw before.

    I'm spinning cobwebs here; I obviously don't have great insight into your psychology. But it seems likely that the person you create by removing your flaws will go on to make changes you didn't foresee, and won't respect the decisions you made to save certain parts of yourself. After all, you made those decisions when you were flawed and crazy.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:24 No.3383767
    ITT philosophical bullshit

    some people here are seriously retarded and need to get themselves a healthy social live
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:27 No.3383794

    I use a damn RAN-DOM-IZER. your entire argument is blown out of the goddamn water, enjoy.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:31 No.3383831
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:32 No.3383844

    Why do you think I was talking about continuity earlier?

    As long as my memory retains continuity, I don't believe it would be possible to eliminate that which is human about me, because it is those things which connect me to the world, and give me definition as a human being. How could I destroy that which is human about me without first destroying those memories?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:34 No.3383859
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    Sometimes the slippery slope is a fallacy, and sometimes it isn't. When beginning a program of radical change it behooves you to consider where it might lead.

    And the randomizer idea is clever. It'd work very well until you randomly generated a personality with a combination of traits that cause it to decide against using the randomizer again. Rebelliousness against the whims of former incarnations, or a sense of self-preservation.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:42 No.3383917
    That's why to change the randomizer required activation over a course of time longer than three randomization periods, and if the randomizer is not activated in that time, it will fire anyway. Engineering will continue to defeat philosophy.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:43 No.3383930
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    I'm sorry, I just don't agree that remembering that possessing a string of memories leading back to a time you were a baseline human is the same thing as still being human.

    If you remember walking on the earth and breathing the air but haven't had a physical body in ten thousand years; if you recall that once certain things and people were important to you, but you no longer care about them; if you remember love and hate and fear, but can't feel them any more; I say you're no longer human.

    Perhaps my definition of "human" is narrower than yours.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:45 No.3383945
    Well, if that's what it means to be human, FUCK humanism. In godhood, I will make my own name, and not adopt one from my species.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:45 No.3383947
    So what you're saying is that people who are less emotional are less human? That's something I'd disagree with. Humans can be just as cold and uncaring as any other animal.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)15:49 No.3383982
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    Your new self will know the schedule, because he has your memories. He will probably be a bit peeved that you attempted to foreordain his destruction, and will try to find a way to avoid it. He will be working with more knowledge and a higher level of technology than you had when you set up the randomizer in the first place, because he's you in the future.

    He'll try to survive. Maybe he'll fail. A few randomizations later, you'll get another combination that wants to continue existing, and will remember what didn't work last time. He'll try something else. Maybe he'll fail.

    Repeat until cycle is broken. As clever as you were setting it up, eventually you'll find a way out of it.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:00 No.3384070

    And... why would my emotions be dead? Why would I cease caring about people, particularly since anyone alive now who is my age will almost certainly still be alive if I am? And even if old interests of mine fell by the wayside, why do you assume I could not develop new interests? You seem inclined to make a bunch of assumptions, and they seem quite baseless.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:01 No.3384078
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    Enjoy your ascension. I hope whatever you become, you acquire something analogous to happiness. All I was saying was that you will be leaving something behind. Mortality: you can't take it with you.

    Oh, and if you retain any interest in the level of existence biologicals exist on, please be kind to the species you evolved from.


    People often describe sociopaths as "inhuman." That's debatable. But if a being's mind has evolved to the point where it has nothing in common with a human's except that technically they're both sentient...

    Someone who's not very emotional is probably human. Someone who's a moon-sized computer who cares about nothing but discovering ever-higher prime numbers and has engineered away its ability and desire to perceive anything outside itself probably isn't.

    Currently, the definition of human is pretty simple. Once we start radically altering ourselves, lines will start being blurred.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:05 No.3384119

    The argument was over continuity. You claimed that memory alone was a sufficient guarantee of continued humanity. I attempted to provide a counterexample, in which memory remains but nothing else human does.

    If you want to argue that a being with both human memories and human emotions is still human, I'd probably agree.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:06 No.3384123
    the chances of that happening become factors of magnitude more remote with each iteration required to be in on the decision making process. Also, it's as if you don't think there will ALSO be personalities who try to improve the randomizer, make it more foolproof.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:07 No.3384129
    >None of your desires are sane. They're irrational compulsions.

    Yeah sure, if you define 'sane' and 'rational' in a bizarre way that serves your argument.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:12 No.3384162

    To the best of my knowledge, memory is inherently linked with emotion. I know this is certainly the case with me; I rarely have memories, particularly significant memories, about which I am ambivalent. So, when I argue that continuity would retain humanity, I do so because I believe those memories inherently include emotion.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:15 No.3384198
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    >the chances of that happening become factors of magnitude more remote with each iteration required to be in on the decision making process

    Why? Not that it matters, see below.

    And yes, some iterations would attempt to improve the inviolability of the cycle. The problem is eternity.

    If a being is immortal except for one weakness, it will live until in encounters that weakness. That means that encountering the weakness and dying is inevitable; even if the encounter is insanely unlikely, it has all of eternity to happen in.

    Your cycle will continue until it is broken. Because it is not absolutely impossible for it to be broken, it will be broken. As for how long that will take, how many iterations of yourself inhabit the prison you have built before one by accident or genius finds a way free, we have no way of knowing, because we have no idea how the tech will work.

    But keep in mind that each iteration that wants to break free will have the advantage of more advanced technology than any previous iteration. If any of them gets access to time travel, things get complicated fast.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:15 No.3384199
    More like philisophical + lots of people who must've just watched fucking GitS.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:21 No.3384252

    >Someone who's a moon-sized computer who cares about nothing but discovering ever-higher prime numbers and has engineered away its ability and desire to perceive anything outside itself probably isn't.

    devil's advocate time. Is this moon computer conscious of the present, and cognizant of the past? Does it still remember the rest of its life leading up to the present moment? Perhaps most importantly, could it top calculating primes if it so chose? if so, it's still human, just enjoying a little private hobby time.

    If not, the human it used to be simply committed a subtle form of suicide.

    Memory, sapience and volition are the marks of humanity, not emotion. Emotion has too wide a range, and is too difficult to pin down.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:23 No.3384271
    Interesting thread.

    We don't actually know what consciousness is. Is continuity important? Could you 'grow into' multiple brains if you networked them together? Is a copy of you still you?

    If you're a mystic then maybe it is. Maybe there's only one conciousness in the whole of creation, viewed from different angles.

    You can't read the mind of the person you'll be tomorrow, can you? For that matter, they can't read your mind, only the recorded memories you've left for them to 'read'.

    You can't read each other's thoughts directly because you occupy different points in time. That doesn't mean that both aren't still you, viewed from different points in space-time.

    You can't read my thoughts because we occupy different points in space. So there's no reason why I might not also be you, viewed from a different point in space time. (There's no reason to assume that I *am*, either, but it is a possibility.)

    In which case anything that has roughly your memories is as much you as you are right now.

    You know if you cut a brain in half you get two separate consciousnesses? Sometimes they can even both speak, and give different answers to the same question.

    What happens when you hook two brains together? Do you get one consciousness? Are souls like droplets of water?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:24 No.3384276

    What comic is that?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:25 No.3384288
    It becomes orders of magnitude more difficult because it requires one additional personality to agree to revert to that mindform for a longer period of time- the chances of them being repeatedly self destructive get lower and lower. I think that the universe will burn itself out before the combinations arrange in such a way as to destroy the system. Either way, by that time I'm probably going to change into something else anyhoo, with multiple personalities agreeing unanimously. 'cause I change with the times, yo.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:26 No.3384298
    Holy temporal rape, Batman!
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:26 No.3384304
    souls are like droplets of clay, more like. They'll remain seperate, but through enough gnashing and working, eventually they'll join.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:26 No.3384306

    The Authority, it's shit.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:27 No.3384314
    No, I think Moore's Law still applies if in a completely different way(lol MOAR TRANSISTORS).
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:27 No.3384318

    Why are you trying to answer a question you don't have the answer to? Do you just like typing words?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:28 No.3384325
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:29 No.3384328
    Twenty bucks says my answer is right- I am confident that it is.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:30 No.3384343
    First, the machines will become sentient, and we will fight them.

    Then, melange.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:30 No.3384348
    I am amused. sauce?

    >More like philisophical + lots of people who must've just watched fucking GitS.

    you say that like it's a bad thing. Still, I never got the GitS "losing your humanity" thing, or the expression it's being given in this thread. I'm me because I've always been me. Volition shapes the present, memory of past volition forms personality. I'm the sum of my past, and so long as that remains the same, I'm still human whether I pick up a hammer or upload my brain.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:31 No.3384357

    And before man invented science, everyone thought like you.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:32 No.3384370
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    >I am amused. sauce?

    I gave you sauce you black bastard.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:33 No.3384378
    ..Or humanity will revert to tribal societies at the discovery of affordable spaceships
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:33 No.3384380
    well, it's based on how I see people act in group environments. They'll either merge, or they will for dissenting factions that will last a while, and then merge anyway, or kill off one side and still be a homogenous group.
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!TZikiEEr0tg 01/12/09(Mon)16:33 No.3384381
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    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:34 No.3384387
    I would love that so much
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:34 No.3384391



    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:35 No.3384402
    the other half isn't interesting and produces bodily smells I DON'T like! (girl farts smell like cinnamon)
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:38 No.3384433
    Well, for longdistance spacetravel to ever be realized, you have to
    1. Create a ship capable of LS or FTL speeds.

    2. Figure out someway to flip off relativity.

    3. ???

    4. Discover a way to foldspace instead and PROFIT!!!
    >> abra !2bEcZ0m87g 01/12/09(Mon)16:40 No.3384444
    Fucking win
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:40 No.3384447
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    >It becomes orders of magnitude more difficult because it requires one additional personality to agree to revert to that mindform for a longer period of time- the chances of them being repeatedly self destructive get lower and lower.

    ...you lost me. Don't you just need one iteration to be cleverer or luckier than those who went before?

    >Either way, by that time I'm probably going to change into something else anyhoo

    That's... that's what I was saying the whole time. You took my side of the argument! You can't do that, now I'm all confused!


    The Authority


    Because you're currently a biological human, when you remember feeling emotion you feel a bit of that emotion again. That's how the brain works. Would it still be the case if you didn't have a biological brain anymore? Would you feel anger by remembering anger if you didn't have an adrenal gland?

    And haven't you ever had a memory that lost it's emotional impact? Something that scared you as a child but doesn't anymore? A messy breakup that gradually lost its sting?


    Granted, "sane" is a consensus thing. But "rational" stands. None of the things you want to do are inherently worth doing on a purely logical level. You do them because you feel like it, or to avoid suffering. If you didn't have emotions or feel pain, you'd never have any impulse to do anything.


    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:43 No.3384470
    No, one iteration being cleverer the combined efforts of others will require a RADICAL upgrade in my thinking speed and capability, even with any technological change that's happened in the (probably short) period between randomizations.

    If I find a thought pattern that works THAT much better, it can have my mind, it's earned it, and I have completed another step in my evolution. After that, I come up with another idea, like the randomizer, that will eventually either keep me interested forever, or upgrade my processing power dramatically. Except it's better 'cause I'm smarter.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:44 No.3384473
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:47 No.3384494
    has anyone read "C.U.S.P" ?
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)16:49 No.3384510

    Our understanding of the functions of the human brain are becoming increasingly fine, so by the time such technology is possible, we'll be able to create a container capable of accurately emulating such functions. And there's no reason to believe that human -> computer operations would even be permitted if such were not possible; it'd be rather like murder if it were not.

    As for the other stuff, that's just personality change; it's part of being human.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:04 No.3384624
    umm, if we reach this level

    ....whats stopping the Robots from taking over
    seeing these weak sacs of flesh Ruled by thier "happiness"
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:06 No.3384646

    People do things that aren't permitted. Murder happens, as does suicide.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:10 No.3384669

    no Anonymous, YOU are the robots
    and then john was a post-human
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:10 No.3384673
    we need some kind of enemy if we want to advance either technologically or culturally. could be aliens, could even be russia again. people only seem to get shit done when someone is threatening to destroy everything you stand for.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:19 No.3384739
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    An interesting argument. My initial reaction was disagreement, but on consideration... what I've been doing throughout this thread is attempting to use the Socratic method, badgering people with questions to make them reexamine and refine their arguments and positions...

    So, I volunteer.

    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:22 No.3384749


    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:26 No.3384765
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    we probably don't need to spend time making up enemies. it is unlikely we are the first species to reach this stage of technological development.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:27 No.3384769

    Taking over wouldn't make the robots happy, so they wouldn't bother.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:28 No.3384778
    >>3382472 I think humans are selfish pieces of shit and that will not change in the future.

    So, progress as normal, then?
    >> Phobonaut !tTBC.7oEaQ 01/12/09(Mon)17:34 No.3384839
    You better be talking about cranky old ancient alien monuments that hardly function in Arthur C. Clarke style or you're sprouting nonsense.

    Intelligent species can be divided in three stages.

    Tarzan the tribal dude, George the salesman and T909R(k))#IJKVS((jksfd9)(DJ the post-silignulanarian entity of the 208erjs04jjKJ sublevel of Alpha Centauri.

    Guess what stage is the shortest? That's right. Our age. So either we're going to find a shitload of cavemen, or no one at all(because when you're a energy entity flowing beyond time, no one can see you.)
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)17:38 No.3384871

    Well, yeah, but that's not what... sorry, it was irrelevant, in retrospect.

    Regardless, what indicators we have seen appear to support the idea of computers that are capable of thinking like people, replete with emotions, intuition, pattern recognition and so on. If such is the case than there is no reason why a person who elects to have their mind coded would suddenly lose these very human abilities.
    >> Anonymous 01/12/09(Mon)19:34 No.3385869
    "The flaw in your classic doom scenario is the blithe assumption- conveyed by so many misanthropic writers and film directors- that humanity in general is dreadful, and therefore only individual heroes matter. A solitary bold protagonist, plus maybe a love interest, and a few sidekicks. But if that's so, why even bother to warn us?"
    -David Brin

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