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  • File :1237824178.jpg-(807 KB, 1600x1200, scorp2.jpg)
    807 KB More urethane casting fagotry Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)12:02 No.4060132  
    Last night I put together a thread on how to do some advanced miniature casting and got lots of questions.

    So as not to cheat the early morning crew, I'm linking to the archive of the original thread and leaving the door open for questions on 2+ part casting and including some specific info to help you with choosing the right tools and products for your own casting/duplicating experiments.

    Pic is an Epic eldar Scorpion II Super heavy grav tank that I cast from the original. Dime added for scale and there's a human hair on the model to show level of detail retention.

    Link to Suptg archive here for casting instructions

    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)12:16 No.4060189
    Okay, first bit on materials.

    Where to get the urethane plastic, what sort to use, and alternatives.

    I use Smooth-on brand myself. You can order it online (no this is not viral marketing... you can find tons of other options by just googling two part urethane plastic) at www.smooth-on.com They've also tons of pro tips and how to's on the site.

    The stuff you're looking for is in the "Products" bar on the far left. You'd be looking for Urethane Plastic (Not Castable epoxy resins... those are usually beyond your typical casting needs)

    I use 4 specific grades of urethane plastic.
    1. Smooth cast 300. -fast set time, fast demold, and bright white color. Vacuum degassing isn't a big deal for most applications. Small batches only
    2. Smooth cast 305 30 minute demold time, and a pot life of over double what smoothcast 300 has. Lower heat as well (you can mix more of it in quantity) optimal for casting large batches of minis
    3, Crystal clear series. For casting clear or clear pigmented items (make crystal clear minis or tint them with clear or metallic pigments) -anyone for harliquins or stealth suits?
    4. Smoothcast colormatch (designed to be pigmented)

    trial sizes are 1.9 lbs and $25.00 and makes Hundreds of minis,

    Gallon units are $79.00 and good for likely thousands of minis.

    I've already touched on the mold compound I recommend for general work (mold max 30)... anyone want more info on other options and advice on making the molds for casting your own?
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)12:18 No.4060207
    This would make playing Wh40k so much cheaper, interesting thread is interesting
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)12:30 No.4060301
    Glad you like the thread... any questions are welcome.

    (Anyone know a good method of white metal casting? I'm thinking of investing in a centrifuge for metal casting)

    comments from sculptors and people wanting to add to the info in the thread are welcome as well.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)12:45 No.4060407
    If anyone is in or near Toronto I highly recommend you check out this site.


    They have everything you need for casting like this.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)13:03 No.4060596
    Checked the site... you do know that most of the mold materials they list are all from Smooth-on, right? So why go to them and add their markup when you can buy directly from smooth-on and get the same thing cheaper?

    Though I gotta admit, it is more convenient.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)13:05 No.4060610
    I initially read the subject as urethra.

    ... I was slightly disappointed.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)13:25 No.4060800
    Yes... I can see why you'd think so... what with the picture of the cast scorpion in the first post.

    Sorry, but no urethra casting going on here.

    Besides...RTV silicon would be too irritating.. and the 16 hour set time would be a real problem.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)13:42 No.4060951
    If you are Canadian the site makes sense. Shipping an 2 gallon package from the states will add an additional $60 after taxes and shipping.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)13:53 No.4061028
    Good god! That's insane shipping costs.

    Well spotted, sir
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)15:15 No.4061722
    I enjoy what your doing here

    you are indeed awesome
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)15:47 No.4061939
    can you perform this process with whole sprues?

    and can you do this process and take pictures OF EVERYTHING? so that I can perhaps make an instructional .gif or picture.

    and can you do nids for the above?

    first one misposted
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)17:20 No.4062772
    All my nids are epic scale... so I suppose I could do the piece of a Nid Bio titan or a harridan or something.

    Will that suffice? Only thing is... I hardly ever use nids... so let me look at what I want to duplicate when I get home. I have some limited release epic stuff I want to make molds for (like the limited release eldar vampire hunter or the phoenix fighter seen here http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Epic_-_Limited_Release

    And some unreleased eldar wave serpents that I've come into

    As to sprues. Yes and no.

    Large sprues are not designed to be done this way. This is medium soft Silicon and it's not really ideal for full sprues. Besides, the way sprues are organized it'd be a real waste of mold space.

    For large sprues, they do the molds out of blocks of stainless steel and use pressure injected hot plastic which is cheap as hell. This encourages LARGE molds because the steel is inflexible and large molds dissipate heat faster and thus can demold faster.

    That's way beyond the capabilities of a tutorial here.

    That said, you could isolate the parts that you need for your minis from the sprue (cutting them (and a piece of sprue still attached to the piece) away from the main sprue) arrange them, and do the steps listed here by me.

    Silicon molds are for high detail models with a few pieces. For things with lots of pieces on a big sprue... stainless steel molds are the thing, and those cost tens of thousands of dollar to machine.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)17:39 No.4062945
    I should ask what 'epic scale' is but I assume it just means larger models.

    about sprues, will this process work with models like carnifexes and tyrants? or are they to large

    I like the idea of doing a number of warriors on sprues. to allow for customization
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)17:42 No.4062975
    >I should ask what 'epic scale' is but I assume it just means larger models.


    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)17:43 No.4062989
    now, is that sum sarcasm I see
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)17:43 No.4062999
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)18:34 No.4063495
    isn't that why you play?
    to give GW your cash
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)18:43 No.4063608
    Hmm, well sadly I have to head to work soon, anyone have all this info at a site somewere so I can just put it in my faves and read it latter? I my army still needs around, oh 100 guardsmen, and I think I have already given GW all the money of mine they need
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)18:52 No.4063704
    Did you not try to get your older thread archived OP?
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)18:53 No.4063724
    >>4062945I should ask what 'epic scale' is but I assume it just means larger models.

    No, epic scale is smaller scale. standard minis are 28mm or 25 mm or roughly 1/152th scale.
    Epic is 6mm or 1/285 to 1/300th scale. So lots smaller.


    Yes, yes it is.

    >>4063608anyone have all this info at a site somewere


    don't forget to vote and make it an epic thread.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)19:07 No.4063879
    Aww sorry, I fucked up there.. I mean 1/76th and 1/72nd scale. for 25 and 28 mm minis.

    28mm is gw's standard size so 1:72 scale.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)20:05 No.4064437
    did you just use 'GW' and 'scale' in the same sentience?

    and my question still stands, can this process reproduce standard sized carnifexes and models of simaler size?

    also for some odd reason I keep getting the horrid Idea of creating molds that have 3 slabs in stead of 2
    bottom middle and top, where middle has an impression on both sides

    this is retarded right?
    if not then fund it.
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)20:28 No.4064647
    that's the only sensible way to make one piece products which cannot be parted in 2 slabs due to HUGE undercuts like legs, but most manufactures would , instead, separate the product in pieces and stick to 2 part moulds , less non-alignments to deal whit..

    And most I've seen was a 5 piece mould used to make diplodocus skins for stop motion puppets, , dude just placed the armatures dead centre, poured, the skin, spin-casted and then cut a slit in a wrinkle and pour foam.spin casting is when you pur just a tiny part of your medium and then spin a roll the mould so it'll cover the inner surface as a skin, effectively creating a hollow cast
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/23/09(Mon)22:10 No.4065513
    >>4064437did you just use 'GW' and 'scale' in the same sentience?

    28mm IS the scale that they use.

    >>and my question still stands, can this process reproduce standard sized carnifexes and models of simaler size?

    And again, YES. Just break the model down to it's constituent parts, arrange them , build a frame, line the base with modeling clay, follow the process and you've got your two halves.

    >>also for some odd reason I keep getting the horrid Idea of creating molds that have 3 slabs in stead of 2 bottom middle and top, where middle has an impression on both sides this is retarded right?
    if not then fund it.

    Dude, yes, it is retarded. and if you take 2 minutes to think about it you'll figure out why.

    It has to do with the middle layer.

    If you haven't figured it out....To create a middle layer like you describe, you'd have to have it be liquid at the time it's poured on top of the lower minis, and to get the impression on the top it'd have to be able to FLOAT the mini pieces for the top impression.

    This cannot be done.

    If you have plastic model pieces, they will rise to the top like oil on water (silicon being heavier) and if you have metal pieces they'll simply sink into the un-set silicon like the metal weights they are.

    If you look at the process, you'll notice that it starts with clay at the bottom of the mold frame to hold the silicon up. You're always casting your molds by having the current layer you're creating being at the top. It won't work any other way.

    So... again, yes, bad suggestion. And besides... "fund it?" dude... you must be a newfag so I'll excuse that shit. You don't tell people that are helping the community, giving people the benefit of their knowledge and doing things for your benefit to fucking "fund it" Understand?
    >> Yellow Weeaboo Peril 03/23/09(Mon)23:31 No.4066219
    So in theory i can make a whole unit of Chaos Knights out of Archaon?

    >> Yellow Weeaboo Peril 03/23/09(Mon)23:33 No.4066234
    So in theory i can make a whole unit of Chaos Knights out of Archaon?

    >> the wistful fanatic 03/23/09(Mon)23:38 No.4066265
    perhaps you stick the top selections of models in another layer of clay invert it and press that into top of the liquid rubber
    >> Anonymous 03/23/09(Mon)23:40 No.4066278

    Redshirt : "Sir, why is your Ork Horde composed of 230 copies of Snikrot?"
    Mr Forger : "Because they is the sneakiest."
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)00:00 No.4066477
    >>4066265 Clay on top

    Two words for you... Air Pockets

    Trust me... this works best.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)01:02 No.4067092
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    Okay here's some step by step pictures for the how two part of this.

    Step 1. Work area, check. A work pad to protect the table top, tools, solvents, brushes, silicon and reagent, 2 part plastic, model to duplicate broken down into parts, sticks, stirring pots, etc.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)01:10 No.4067161
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    Step 2: Model laid out in some semblance of a pattern. This is a Hierophant bio titan. It's one of the largest of the titans in epic 40,000. It's also lots more pieces but about the same level of detail as a normal tyranid in WH40k. I've arranged it into a pattern I thought would most efficiently use the space of the mold. What you need to shoot for is good buffering between pieces but to use the space as efficiently as possible
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)01:20 No.4067245
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    Step 3. Roughing out the frame on the lego base and arranging the pieces better.

    As you can see, I've created the base of the frame, rearranged my pieces (changing the lay out a little) and put in 4 key cut pieces (the L shaped tan pieces inside the border of the frame) The 4 key cut pieces will act as guides to slot the top mold and bottom mold halves together.

    The thing is that this pattern of piece layout is important, because you want the mold as small as possible so you can have it as thick as possible to avoid distorting the finished product. If the finished mold is too thin (measured top to bottom in the up-down direction) then you risk a model that looks flattened. A good mold should be firm and have good thickness... so scoping out how thick the clay needs to be and how tall the mold needs to be are key here.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)01:32 No.4067333
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    Step 4, remove and place the pieces of the model onto a waiting pad arranging them exactly as they were laid out in the frame, built the frame up (noting how thick the thickest pieces are) and insert the clay into the mold (knead it well piece by piece till it's nice and warm and pliable)

    For this model, I noted that the thorax section is thick as hell, and I need to embed it DEEP into the clay so that only the top half of the thorax is exposed. That means the clay needs to be at least 1 and possibly 1/2 legos thick. Fortunately I have a huge wonk of clay (the official /tg/ measuring unit for plastic modeling clay) so this won't be an issue.

    Gradually work the clay in, making partial recesses for large parts. The recesses into the clay keep you from distorting the clay surface flatness when you press the big pieces in.

    Think of it like this. When you push an object into water, it displaces the volume of the water equal to the volume of the thing put into it. With water that's not an issue the water self levels because it's thing. But clay is not water (duh) when you shove a big piece of metal into clay it just displaces clay in lumps around the object. This is bad for making a clean mold and can mess up your nice smooth flat surface. Recesses built into the clay let the pieces slot in nicely, just displacing a little clay.

    Anyway, once I've got everything in place we'll be pouring the first part of the mold. Which I anticipate should be at least 2 legos tall, possibly 2 and 1/2.

    any questions so far?
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)01:38 No.4067376
    Oh yeah, one thing... Why am I using legos?

    Well that's actually a pretty neat thing. The plastic that legos are made from is perfect for this application.
    The urethane plastic that the smooth-on smooth cast 300 produces will NOT stick to lego plastic. It's like it's greased. It will however stick to nearly anything else... including glass.

    Also the silicon rubber for the molds will not stick to legos either, and neither will the clay. All in all legos are perfect for making your mold frames with.

    Clean up is as important as anything else. No sense leaving a mess when you are done.
    >> Anonymous 03/24/09(Tue)01:42 No.4067402
    >>So... again, yes, bad suggestion. And besides... "fund it?" dude... you must be a newfag so I'll excuse that shit. You don't tell people that are helping the community, giving people the benefit of their knowledge and doing things for your benefit to fucking "fund it" Understand?

    Unrelated person here. Calm the fuck down, tripfag. You clearly don't understand what fund it means and look like a dick with a sense of entitlement right now.

    A shameful blight on the rest of your thread.
    >> Anonymous 03/24/09(Tue)02:11 No.4067475
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)02:15 No.4067496
    >>4067402You clearly don't understand what fund it means and look like a dick with a sense of entitlement right now.

    Oh really? To my understanding, "fund it" has always meant "do it". Someone suggests something, someone else says "fund it"...meaning that the idea has merit and should be carried out. A person who makes the suggestion never says "fund it" themselves because it's like telling someone "Hey, this idea of mine is fucking cash... now do it for me"

    In this case, the poster was making a suggestion and telling ME to do it for him.

    So I think my reaction was actually pretty mild.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)02:18 No.4067514
    I'm workin' on it, Leroy. This clay stuff takes time.

    Seriously...The clay was cold as hell... and it's taking time to lay in the layer nice and smooth and thick.
    >> Anonymous 03/24/09(Tue)02:19 No.4067517
    shut the fuck up and continue
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)02:29 No.4067596
    Dude... do you WANT me to not continue this?

    If so... keep right on talkin shit.

    If you want me to continue this tutorial, then temper your attitude.
    >> Anonymous 03/24/09(Tue)02:33 No.4067622
    This is amazing, I'm staying up late for this. Please continue, as you have my full attention.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)03:06 No.4067800
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    two more pics... showing the clay process.

    The first is showing digging out recesses. These help the model parts slot in easier.

    A good set of sculpting tools help, though a butter knife will work just fine too.

    Note the clay roller. I use it to roll out super thin sheets of clay that go into the recesses.

    Once you've dug out the whole, you slip the thin sheet around the edges and press the model piece firmly. The thin sheet acts as a gasket... sealing the piece in so none of the mold material can seep under it.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)03:11 No.4067827
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    here you can see that the top pieces and leg arch are sealed in place in the clay, nicely embedded and with clay gaskets under them and blended into the clay bed while keeping the whole thing nicely flat and level.

    I'll embed the rest of the pieces and get the whole thing ready for the mold material.

    Thing is... the mold material takes 16 hours to set... so once the pieces are in place, all that's left to do is mix about 180-200 grams of mold compound with 18 -20 grams of reagent, brush it on the exposed minis to ensure no air bubbles, and the pout the rest in. After that it just needs to set up .
    >> Anonymous 03/24/09(Tue)03:15 No.4067843
    Haha! OMG! Doing this sort of stuff has been my last job! We used pre-heated silicon-mould, btw.
    >> Ifuritasfan !!v09L1F0F0uU 03/24/09(Tue)03:41 No.4067943
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    And here is all the pieces in place.

    Normally I'd spend the better part of an hour going back over the clay, smoothing and leveling it properly and adding little beads of clay around the edges of the pieces to make sure all the pieces are sealed in properly. As you work it, the clay gets more and more supple and easier to work.

    Then comes the silicon. But that's it for tonight. I'll do that in the morning, go to work, and when I come home and before bed I'd demold just the clay... So we'll get back to that in the next thread.

    Any questions at this point?

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