you make a reasonable argument and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter

While I have nothing to add, I do find your point interesting and valid, and I applaud your astute observations.

Chimera was here, your argument is invalid.

Honestly I feel the worst monsters of DnD are the ones made up for the game itself. Sometimes they're really cool, but many times they're just retarded. From the Cloaker to the Ravid, whoever designs some of these monsters clearly thinks that stupid things are scary/awesome. This is especially evident in 3.5 when they started making a ton of Monster Manuals and clearly couldnt fill them; apparently their strategy was to just throw more arms and eyes on shit and call it a day.

If it helps, I take my monsters from neither Greek mythology nor D&D.

Greek mythology is awesome so fuck you.

I'd still rather have merfolk be introduced into a game I was playing than godamn orcs and goblins and trolls AGAIN

>>4728621
I don't have the picture saved, but the rainbow winged wolf creature makes me break out in hives every time i see it used in a game.

And while OP makes an interesting, I'm going to disagree. The origins are somewhat silly, but it's really easy to adapt merfolk to a magic using setting. The sea is full of food, resources, spell components, etc., and sooner or later even the most absent-minded wizard is going to notice that. The less scrupulous among them might even go so far in their attempt to harvest the oceans to create a slave race of half fish, half men to expedient the process. Over time, the wizard either loses control of his slaves or a few escape. And while their origin still has a flavor of the grimdark of Innsmouth fishmen, it does so in a way that could maintain the classic aesthetic of merfolk.

Have a fish.

Fuck you, I like the Chimera, and merfolk are going to be the staple of my setting.

I disagree with your statements OP but I do not sage threads because I disagree with them.

>>4728506
>Stupid, Stupid Monsters
Pic related.

>>4728621
The Greeks did that too, sometimes. See hecatonchieres.

>>4728701
When I said the origins are somewhat silly, I meant the origins of the merfolk myth, sailor fantasies and lol porpoise/manatee sightings.

>>4728715
The Chimera was a one of a kind monster though.

>>4728701
I've seen this chick floating (ahaha) around- where's she from?

MtG ditched merfolk as being sea-based and running them.

In doing them in Lorwyn/Shadowmor they were masters of the river systems, either doing trading or pirating the fuck out of people.

>>4728701

>>4728786
yup, that's the one

>>4728781
the merfolk of mtg, while making mediocre decks, were pretty badass back in the day

>>4728764
i don't remember the artist's name, but the one time i thought i had tracked it down i found a surprisingly large amount of guro.

OP Here: Yeah, I know that there are plenty of stupid D&D monsters. But the greek ones just somehow stand out for me.

Orcs, Trolls, and Goblins might be run into the ground by now, but its because they are useful monsters that can be made compelling and interesting. (auger-trolls that read the future in their own intestines, Goblins as a laboring underclass after their great empire fell to encroaching humans, ect)

>>4728701
Here's my idea for making Merfolk an consistent monster: they're camouflage predators. They're predatory shoreline and freshwater eel that developed an increasingly human-like appearance as Mimicry, to attract their prey. They're not intelligent at all, or if they are, not very. All their humanoid features are fish-derived, right down to the modified fin spines forming the "hair," and the non-functional breastlike protuberances. Their singing is partially hypnotic, and only sounds enchanting to human ears. The entire reason for their human-like appearance, down to the arms (not well-articulated, mind you) is there solely to lure humans into the water, where their venomous spines and razor teeth turn the horny idiot into a meal.

If you want, this can be their origin story, and they later evolved true sentience and culture.

>>4728738
And its okay for what it is. But, way too many mythological monsters are in the same vein. And its incredibly retarded.

>>4728904
This is actually what sirens were. Merfolk was a victorian age retelling of the Greek sirens.

>>4728904

>>4728701 here
I really like this.

But half the fun of dming for me is refluffing and building worlds.

>>4728809
You best be joking, Merfolk were a tier 2 deck in Lorwyn block, might be coming back in Extended (if they learn to embrace a strong tempo strategy instead of trying to be a clone of Faeries) and rape pretty well in Legacy.

And yet I want to fuck all of them.

>>4729020
I dropped out before Lorwyn came out.

It also didn't help my opinion that the merfolk player in my group of friends was rather casual in a group that used the helm/ensnaring bridge combo, slivers, urza legacy decks, etc.

>>4728989
come to think of it, way too many mythological monsters could fit into this basic template. How many creatures seem to have the sole function of "luring sailors and travelers to their deaths?" Many of them arent ghosts or nature spirits, but mundane predators evolved to eat humans.

Even dryads could fit this. Either as a puppet-like lure for a large carnivorous plant, or as a sex-doll-flower-structure to facilitate cross-pollination (there's already a plant that uses wasps the same way). They're literally TIED to their tree, not metaphysically, but by Stems.

>>4729089

protip: elf, kobolds, dwarf, goblins, spirits, dryads, redcaps were all things that were going to eat you in the orignial mythology.

Merfolk = dolphins who talk and look prettier

I fail to see the problem

>>4729121

This way, you know that they have a vagoo.

>>4729089

... I like that nymph idea.

I'd become a druid so I could devote my life to *ahem* cross pollination.

>>4729140

One that can massage your dick too.

>>4729063
Why?

The whole fey buisness never sat well with me. Nymphs (hot psudo-godessess who exist only to "fall in love" with mortals and gods. Hur hur) dont really have the dignity to be part of the "Fair Folk."

Other mythologies offer something that can be worked into a compelling worldview, and they get used alot, in good media. Lovecraft and Brittish Isles all provide a consistent setting full of cool shit (ex: hellboy, alot of D&D). Greek doesnt. Its just a bunch of lecherous gods, meat-headed heroes, and random-ass monsters from the bitz box. Greek Mythology gave us ONE hero worth remembering: Odysseus/Ulysses. The rest can take a running jump for all I care.

needs more Celtic and other European mythology.

>>4729468

... where can I get one of those?

>>4729405
If you think nymphs only existed to fall in love, then you probably need to read some Greek mythology, child, instead of masturbating to the thought of Unified Setting having Gentry.

>>4729495
by yifing in hell.

>>4729495
The real legend is actually sexier then the weeaboo shit.

>>4729468
Freakin cute.

We need to get some of these and forcibly create some drawfags that way, to illustrate all our fucking retarded /tg/ GETS SHIT DONE projects.

>>4729503
Well, I cant remember any nymphs that didnt exist for any purpose other than to be the mothers of gods and heroes, or to be horribly mutated as punishment for having sex with someone the gods didnt like. Nymphs were for secks, and thats about it.

Maybe it was reading Everwold back in middle school, but it kind of soured alot of mythological creatures for me.

>>4728701
She needs a hug and help out of her swimsuit. I want boobs, dammit!

>>4729526
It is also more tragic, because she inevitably destroys them in the end. They do not retain enough sense of self to survive without her, and leannan sidhe also subsist on blood.

The artist never survives without outside help.

>>4729566
not if you refuse her.

FUCK YEA FREE FAE SLAVE!

>>4729526

... which is?

>>4729578
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanan_s%C3%ADdhe

>>4729578
Yeah, I want to hear this one.

>>4729577

Refuse her? The stories go in the vein of you would never see one unless she could make you an offer you would not refuse. Faery tales are cases of 'you doomed yourself'.

>>4729555
Well, for starters, there's the Muses and the bad ass necromancer bitches of Hecate.

Plus... they're the ARCHETYPE OF THE FUCKING FEY. The local spirits of water, forests, mountains, and natural faggotry all around.

>>4729600
I'm not saying it would be possible to do so. Just AWESOME if you did.

And really a short passionate life wouldn't be so bad in a world where apathy is a key to life such as this one.

>>4729585

Upon reading, I am not convinced that it is sexier than the weeaboo shit. I'd say they're about equal.

Archaeology/Anthropology fag here.

Greek folklore is inherently no less interesting than any other culture's folklore. A good D&D game, I feel, is one that plays a -lot- off of folklore.

You might choose to disregard some of it as it doesn't fit the theme (the chimera, for example, only fits in a heroic fantasy setting and would be out of place in low fantasy). And most Greek folklore and mythology is known through epic poetry, forcing it to focus around a particular genre; it's how most of the folklore survived to this day, so it's overrepresented.

Unless you're saying that that entire genre is stupid, in which case I'd just say you're being close-minded.

>>4729566
Oh yeah, a classic example to shove in people's faces when someone goes DERP DERP STOKER INVENTED SEXY VAMPIRES

>>4729619
Meh, Celts did it better

Never knew the Fates were Nymphs, though. Or necromancers.

>>4729619
Actually, I'd say most of the D&D fey lore comes from Celtic myth, not Greek. There's plenty of Greek representation, don't get me wrong, but Celtic folklore has a massive hard on for fey.

>>4729630
Me personally, I don't find the idea of dying, even of a reasonably sexy cause, terribly erotic.

Also the fact that the only way you can have the good ending is if you don't love her back. So its fucking depressing no matter how you slice it.

>>4729668
Talking about the nymphs that accompany Hecate, not the Muses.

Also: the Bible makes no reference to winged human angels, or to female angels. Yet winged human females are usually called angels... and there are plenty of feather-winged nymphs. So by extension to say nymphs suck is to say MtG style angels suck.

>>4729643
Actually, I rescind the bit about the chimera not working in low fantasy; rather, it doesn't work in most low fantasy.

I can see it fitting in well in a low fantasy setting with Frankensteinian mad science.

>>4729710
>modern conceptions of angels are winged females, some nymphs are winged females. Therefore, modern conceptions of angels are nymphs.

Your logic is faulty. Fellatio jokes aside, I agree with you that nymphs don't suck; unfortunately, that isn't really a solid argument for them.

>>4729686

Well you die happy. The main reason I say they're equal though, is because the weeaboo version is a loli, and the celtic one being postpubescent does a lot for me.

>>4729686

>Me personally, I don't find the idea of dying, even of a reasonably sexy cause, terribly erotic.

In the grimdark grim darkness of the ancient world, there is no room for sexy sex, only deathly sex.

>>4729748

Altering someone's argument to make it wrong is a pretty shitty debate tactic there.

Most of the time, modern angels are portrayed as being at least 50% female; on /tg/, its way more than 50% (groups that consist OF Nymphs, however, sometimes include males as well, and they can have male children). They're just portrayed as spirits of good, not as servants of a given deity. They are interested in helping people rather than slaughtering townsfolk.

Straight up, the modern fantasy angel has nothing to do with the Bible and quite a bit to do with nymphs. Likely, this has something to do with the notion in modern fantasy that good is a passive, isolationist, peaceful force.

>>4729821

I think it's supposed to teach an Aesop

>>4729756
Its a Schroedinger's Loli; you are unable to perceive the fact that it is a loli.

I'm partial to the 4E interpretation of the creature; they're both fey and vampires, non-evil, look damn good, and have blood cauldrons that function like phylacteries.

>>4729850

SEX RESULTS IN OBSESSION AND DEATH

actually that is pretty much true.

>>4729873

>Its a Schroedinger's Loli; you are unable to perceive the fact that it is a loli.

The important question, then, is can Chris Hansen percieve that it is a loli?

>>4729821

"DEATHFUCK THE CORPSERAPER at your service milady!"

>>4729878
Actually, yes, assuming he wasn't the fey's target. It only works on the subject, a reclusive drawfag.

So if he's ever out in public, he is unable to grasp the weird looks.

>>4729878

And then Chris Hansen was the loli.

>>4729883

how do i just named my land raider

>>4729896

"I'm Chris Hansen, from Dateline NBC, and I wish to be the little girl."

>>4729892

If he's ever out in public, he's not very reclusive.

And don't leave out the music/writefags. They can get fey booty too

>>4729908

This little girl?

>>4729904
Is it a Chaos LR? It must be Slanneshi, in particular.

MTG merfolk were always badass.
Look at the god damn merfolk from shadowmoore/stronghold, that shit was DOPE
But anywhere else...mostly retarded

>>4729927
sorry Chris Hansen, i call dibs on that shit.

>>4729927
EVERYONE wants to be Vivio.

>>4729949
Have you seen Vivid? Not only does she have hot lesbian moms, but she turns into a busty teenager via MAGIC, and has her own "rival" that is also a loli that turns into a busty teen.

>>4729983

whoa whoa whoa, slow down, hoss. Japanimation has what now?

DAMN PEDOPHILES RUINING A OH WAIT THIS THREAD WAS SHIT FROM THE START.

BUT THE WESTERN MYTHOS THING WAS KINDA COOL.

>>4729983
And considering she was raised by Nanoha, I think we all know EXACTLY where this is heading.

>>4729994
It's actually just a mango right now.
http://rapidshare.com/files/238059135/magical_girl_lyrical_nanoha_vivid_-_01__e_.rar

>>4729983

>>4729998

Pedophiles?!

Where? D:<

They mustn't be allowed to taint Vivio!

>>4730035
"Behold, my awesome magical powers! They gave me boobies!"

>>4730013
>>4729983
uh, yeah thats kind of the point
>>4730049
I dont want to taint vivo, I want to be her.

>>4730099

That is understandable and acceptable.

Greek mythology was a total ripoff and it can suck my dick.
What pisses me off is, in the national Museum of Berlin, on the room for babylonian and sumerian statues and idols, which are actually the original versions of so many Greek mosters, the audio guide starts a rant about these people being "primitive" and using "creatures that were part human part animal" on their mythology
The same museum has the fucking Zeus temple on the next room and the same goes in to incredible detail about describing some stupid legend on the reliefs.
When the Greek does it, it's not primitive.

>>4730099
EVERYONE does. You get to be a hot piece of jailbait with world-ending awesome magic powers, heterochromia, an endless supply of hot magic-wielding bitches to molest and not one insanely fuckable, ungodly powerful MILF, but TWO.

Anyways, back on topic.

The biggest complaint I have with monsters is that there's too many and don't really fit into any environmental niche other than providing XP.

As horribly gay as the senmurv is, it is based on real world mythology. Persian/Iranian, in this case.

Also, I've always preferred selkies to mermaids.

>>4730134

Yeah, I'd like to see a lot more credit given to early Mesopotamia. The only time you really hear about them is with Hammurabi's Code

>>4730144
That's because most setting just borrow whatever interesting bits they find from various cultures and stuff it in a blender without regards of where anything connects.

I'd like to see actual food chains. Obviously the herbivores have bot to be either very tough, or very prolific not to be wiped out by magic wielding carnivores.
Perhaps things that aren't out to eat you, but simply think you are a threat and are defending themselves, can be vicious foes in their own right.

>selkies

Was ist das?

>>4730213

The human dimension of Greek mythology is pretty great.
Heroes, villains, normal people, fate, tragedy, love, war, death, honor, sacrifice, terror, madness, loss, bereavement, redemption, transfiguration, hope, despair...
The monsters DO kinda suck, though.

>>4730211

Yeah, same here. I've been thinking of trying to add in some monsters from an evolutionary biology perspective, but I'm not sure where to take it. I figure that most of them would be super predators or jumbo-sized trap critters.

Maybe large crablike creatures that burrow into the ground, creating natural pungee pits. They wait for unsuspecting prey (deer, wolves, bears, people) to come by and fall into their trap where the unlucky victim is ripped apart.

>>4730230

So... they're people with weird lookin hair?

>>4730144
You don't have to use all of them at once. Actually, it would be stupid to use all of them at once. However, the Multiverse is infinite, and there's infinite possibilities for the creation or evolution of an infinite number of cretures(including merfolk) and infinite variants of the same creature.

>>4730269

The multiverse may be infinite , but most of the time you deal with a much smaller portion. A single nation, maybe a continent or two.

>>4730269

But the thing is that a some monsters exist solely to provide a challenge for the PCs. They aren't really tied in to the universe, there's no real reason for them to exist or a reason explaining why they haven't been hunted down. They're literally there just to be killed by the players.

>>4729840
Wat?

>>4730495
Isn't that painting from the Renaissance era?

>>4730495

>angel that is a human with wings

Thank you for proving my point.

>>4730540
It's 17th century art, it's not "modern"

Also, digging through wikipedia revealed: Isaiah (6:1–3) "... I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the Hekhal (sanctuary). Above Him stood the Seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew."

>>4730567

And?

The bible's angels look more like the product of an LSD trip than the standard "human with wings" bit

>>4730567
>17th century
The bible was around before the 1st century.
>seraphim
Among the angels, having wings was unique the seraphs and cherubs.

>>4730606
That was really about it for my point, just pointing out that depictions of humans with wings as angels is nothing new, and that they do mention winged people as angels in the bible.

So uhm...yeah, I guess I was just nitpicking. Have some more renaissance era angels.

>they do mention winged people as angels in the bible.

Say what? Every time an angel shows up, not in human disguise (a -100%- human disguise), its always something freakishly inhuman.

All that is described of the six winged angel is A) that it has six wings, B) it has feet, and C) it has a face.

So no, the idea of angels = winged people has nothing to do with the bible.

>just pointing out that depictions of humans with wings as angels is nothing new

Yeah... it is. At the very least, its far, far newer than the New Testament.

>>4730709
Don't forget "covered in eyes" with two of the wings covering the face, and two covering the feet allowing only two to fly with.

>>4730709
The first depiction of a winged angel was in the 4th Century AD.

>>4730747
My bad, 5th century.

>>4729213
why not?

>>4730567
Oh I adore stigmata given via DIVINE LAZORS in ancient art.

Ssssssst! Zap zap!

I liked the Cephalids from MtG. Never as awesome as the idea of a selkie, but an interesting take on the whole merfolk.

I've seen a lot of western (Roman/Greek), but what is the main mythology monsters of Various African cultures?

I mean, I'm going to wikipedia it anyway, but somewhere else on here might know some of this already.

>The first depiction of a winged angel was in the 4th Century AD

Its still Newer than the New Testament, but back then it was just artistic interpretation to add more of a flair, and indeed it was solely these artists (plus paganistic feather winged humans) who caused people to get the impression, which, much later, led people into thinking that'd be what they'd really look like.

I personally think that Angels are supertech robots, as described by technological primitives.

It'd explain things like the wheels and eyes and spinning swords of flame (laser turret!). Besides, God created the universe to act in a scientific fashion; there's no reason he couldn't have designed is angels to take advantage of that, as well.

As for nymphs and whatnot, they're just the Greek equivalent of Japanese kami. Well, the lower ranking ones that rule rocks and trees and stuff. Obviously Ameratsu and company are more analogous to Zeus and company.

>>4731474
Besides that Lucifer is described to have pipes, fittings, and precious metals incorporated into his construction.

>>4731498

lucifer is a 40k exorcist.

and greek mythology is fine, as long as it is implemented with a little imagination. you know, that thing you can use without buying any damn books at all.

Superior sea creatures.

The Ophanim control the Cherubim; the spirits of the Cherubim are said to reside within them. Possibly the Cherubim's minds are virtual reality constructs within the Ophanim, and their bodies are actually drones.

>>4731567
Superior marine animals. Their mouthparts secrete a chemical that makes larvae change gender. Twist that around a bit and you have no manual gender change experiments necessary. She kisses you and her saliva turns you into the little girl over the course of a few weeks.
>>4731474
Angels are also said to lack free will in entirety, which fits robots.

>>4731567
The hell is on her lap?

>>4731632
I thought it was just that they reproduce via mouth secretions. You're telling me that they can turn you into a girl AND impregnate you with one kiss?

>>4731648
A shell, obviously.

I'm greek and the OP is pretty much spot on

>>4731648
That's... not her lap...

However, let's not forget that the Hydra is greek.

All the best monsters from greek mythology aren't really described a lot. Typhoon for example was supposed to be a huge fucking dragon that was killing gods left and right before Zeus did something about it. Illustrations? not so much

>>4731648
Dickgirl. That's all I'm going to say.

OP here. Check out this board, far superior to Retardchan:

www.
ANON
TALK
.com

84725729142253628f5cbb505e2ed00e

>(one thing to add: 4th edition rather effectively removed merfolk. I applaud Wizards for it.)

i'm still not letting go of the FUCKTON OF MONEY i spent on 3.5.

call me old-fashioned.

oh, and i'm poor. stupid uni.

>>4731674
Well technically, there IS this clit tentacle thing....

>>4731653
If you're talking about spoonworms, the males never actually appear because they're on an internatized sac and live as parasites, hence they can just get pregnant whenever they want. It's mostly the same situation as Osedax worms.

For Arume, I haven't the slightest idea.

OP here. Check out this board, far superior to Retardchan:

www.
ANON
TALK
.com

4254f564d3f5db7c5852067f721c6f80

>>4731719
Dunno about that other thing but I know Arume have some system going whereby they can generate compatible sperm in their mouths and then impregnate female humans via oral sex.

Blows my mind as to why they don't just spit on a tentacle and use that.

>>4731759
Well octopodes pretty much do that. They have a specialized arm that produces packets of sperm which they push under the female's mantle.

Actual "spitting" of sperm is seen on spiders however.

>>4731779
I think the oral thing is because they have to use this special pill thing that manufactures human-compatible sperm.

I was thinking about it, and it just struck me.

Cherubim are fighter planes. The lion's head is an air intake. The eagle's head is the nose of the plane. The ox's head is the cockpit/drone brain. The man's head is either a radar dome, or a laser turret. They have six "wings"; one pair is a pair of canards, one pair are the tail, and one pair is actually used for flight.

>>4731852
And thus, the XDF-09 Cherubim was born.

How come we keep getting back to discussing Arume physiology?

>>4729585

Am I the only one who got a very King in Yellow vibe from this?

>>4731498
Do you have any sources on that? Wikipedia and Google aren't turning anything up.

>>4731852
>>4731872

you asshole

to /k/!

>>4732341
Seraphim have a similar wing system as Cherubim. They're also endlessly chanting (something speakers would make much easier), and glowing extremely brightly. Their name means "burning ones," and what produces lots of heat and light, and would let them keep going nigh-indefinately? Nuclear fusion.

>>4732405
VF-27 Seraphim

>>4729468

The entire list of monster girls make me rage. These monsters girls are bad and you should feel bad for liking it.

>>4732416

Actually, that's fucking awesome. A fighter jet going so fucking fast the leading edges are in a perpetual state of relativistic conversion and it's only still there because it is literally reassembling itself and reorienting its structure at the same speed it's being destroyed, and the frame has the ludicrous durability to perpetually endure the front part exploding

Fuckdamn. Now I need to make a Femtopunk world.

>>4732459
Or it's a Delorean.

>>4732475

Not as cool as a relativistic angel.

Hell, that's probably the reason people started shitting themselves when they showed up. Not because they're angels, but because they knew that in half an hour when the sonic boom caught up it would liquefy every bastard within a kilometre of its flightpath.

>>4732495
No man, it IS the Delorean. Nuclear-powered? The flaming wings obviously referring to the fact that it glows like a motherfucker when you hit 88mph? And the "wings"?

SERAPHIM = DELOREAN

>>4729873
Vampire Muse? I thought of that too as soon as this "inspiration fairy" turned up. It was genuinely interesting fluff for a monster in 4th (shat bricks). Definitely gonna use it.

Wings: check
Sword made of fire: check
Strikes down unbelievers with light from from the heavens: check
Flies: check

Pic related, it's a motherfucking angel.

>>4730709
by "feet" it means "genitals" btw

Damn, can't find sources, but I remember Daniel meeting an angel that burned of intense heat, looked like precious stones and fire...


Kinda like the Human Torch.