Tarrasque's ass.

>>4962829
actually, yeah. that would be just about the most secure hiding place... not counting flying and multi-headed variants

>>4962829
Was thinking about that more, or less. I planned on sending waves of zombie/skeleton small and under sized creatures into it with the express orders of jumping down it's throat and trying to cut/claw/lodge the phylactery in somewhere where it wouldn't fall/be digested/shat out

How to get an invincible phylactery: Cast a mordenkainen's magnificent mansion (AKA: mage's magnificent mansion) spell heightened to 9th level. Use all of the mansion's area on solid earth straight down, but make sure you leave enough open space for yourself. Enter the mansion. Cast a targeted dispel magic on your phylactery. Repeat until the spell succeeds. Cast animate objects on your phylactery. Cast imprisonment on your phylactery. Leave the mansion and dismiss it.

You cast imprisonment on your phylactery while inside an extradimensional space. You then destroyed the extradimensional space. Your phylactery cannot be harmed until someone casts freedom on it from the extradimensional space. Since the extradimensional space no longer exists, your phylactery cannot be destroyed. Unless your phylactery is destroyed, you will reform 1d10 days after death. Since your phylactery cannot be destroyed, you cannot be permanently killed (except for a few things like time travel trickery and hunters of the dead).

Man, you have no idea what a can of worms you've opened up. If this thread doesn't devolve into increasingly ridiculous and supposedly impregnable hiding spots for your phylactery, followed by aggravatingly simple ways to find said hiding spots, I will be very surprised.

Well, you could also make your head priest's holy symbol into your phylactery.

No one will ever suspect.

>>4962829

Wouldn't it just shit it out?

>>4962848
Don't you reform where your phylactery is? That'd be a drag, spawning in no-space.

Hide it in a metal plate in a random boot. Make sure the metal plate is fire/rust proof.

Who's going to suspect a boot?

>>4962829
Do Tarrasque even HAVE asses?

and if so, does their shit have the same magical properties the rest of it does?

>>4962866
Make the tarrasque itself the phylactery then.

>>4962848
You reform by your phylactery....so what the fuck happens when you reform? Now YOU'RE stuck in an extra-dimensional space...

Make the hero your phylactery. That way, if he DOES kill ya, he's gone and you have time to make a new one.

Wear your phylactery inside your shirt

>>4962877
On that note, I'd hide it in one of the shoes I'm wearing, and then glamour them to appear magical (Elven Boots of Speed or somesuch.) Imagine the surprise when you think you've killed the nasty lich and OH SHIT LICH IS BACK HOW DID HE FIND US.

A universal still point rod.

Gate to a random location in the Grey Wastes. Cast imprison on phylactery. The Grey Wastes are infinity x infinity x infinity large and have no landmarks of any kind. Technically, just dropping something on the "ground" makes it lost for all eternity.

Hide it inside something else. In fact, make a magic item. A powerful one that specifically aids paladins and other undead-hunters. Embed your phylactery jewel deep inside it so that the item's holy aura masks it. Laugh when random adventurers try to use it against you.

Alternatively, make a mold like the one used for bullion bricks. Cast a brick of solid adamantine. Coat the outside of the brick with four inches of molten lead and let it cool. Then drop it into the ocean.

>>4962871
>>4962895

1. Nothing specifies where you reform.
2. Even if you reform in an extradimensional space, you are not affected by the Imprisonment spell. You don't breathe, so you don't have to worry about lack of air. You can still cast plane shift.

>>4962916
You see what I mean. PCs don't give a damn about mundane objects, and if one of these objects is a phylactery, you're safe. The PCs will always try to go to the Tower of Derp on the plane of Herp Furp to find a phylactery, but no one's going to spare a second glance at, say, a battered bird cage.

Turn yourself into your phylactery. Enjoy your bonus hardness.

>>4962939

When you destroy an extra-dimensional space, everything inside is destroyed too.

Enjoy making a new phylactery.

I was considering hiding the phylactery on Carceri, but I know Nerull would be a dick and be like WHY U NO DIE FAGET?! and destroy it

>>4962821
Asshole lich in one of the campaigns I was in waltzed around with a fucking fullblade. Casting spells and swinging the fucking thing around like he's fucking Cloud or something.

And yea, the sword was his phylactery.

>>4962939
The imprison spell sends the target into a small magical crevasse just large enough for the target. If the lich reforms there, it'll be squeezed into that tiny hole. Since that hole is magical, yes, the lich is affected by the imprison spell. (presuming it survives being spawned in a tiny sized hole)

When a friend of mine played a necromancer, he decided that he should give me his phylactery to hold.

It worked out pretty well. He was hesitant because my character didn't get along very well with his, but my guy always helped get him out of danger.

Once you're part of my crew, I'll do everything in my power to protect you.

You can bet the PCs will be detecting magic on every fucking thing that a lich owns just to be sure its loot they can sell.

Also is it just me or do liches suck as PCs? Most of the benefits are random shit that doesnt benefit you much, and the LA is +4.

Level 20 wizard vs level 16 lich. I WONDER WHO WINS. The guy with WAYYYYY more hp and 4 extra caster levels and level 9 spells or a low hp noob with weaker spells.

Also phylactery sucks for PCs, but not for enemies. DM waves his hand and says the enemy lich has caches of backup spellbooks and artifacts. The PCs have limited money and have to get equipment powerful enough for their normal encounters AND backup equipment good enough.

So yes you can drop your phylactery in some place that no one will ever find, but when you respawn, you sure as hell :

-Be able to survive those conditions(im pretty sure liches arent immune to lava by default)

-Be a spontaneous spell caster or have spare spellbooks ready, or else you are stuck there

>>4962985
"Imprisonment
Target: Creature touched"

You are not affected by Imprisonment.


>>4962967
"Imprisonment:
...no force or effect can harm it."

Hide it inside the HERO'S ass. If you can lodge it in there permanantly, he'll never know, and if he destorys you you'll rip him apart from the inside when you reform.

Have it be a small unimportant rock in the middle of a desert.

>>4963128
Is it possible to torture a Lich?

Like, with positive energy burns and so on?

There's your way to find a phylactery.

>>4963128
Shrink it down, hide it inside a single grain of sand. Drop it on a beach somewhere. Reform in Hawaii when killed. Chill.

Insinuate that the hero is your phylactery. Laugh at TPK.

Protip: DNs do not actually get the lich template.

>>4963218
they still get most of lichdom, including the phylactery

If I ever DM, I will add one rule to phylacteries: They must be within 60 yards of the Lich.

>>4963271
awww man that's tough....get a mole as a familiar and have it tunnel beneath you?

A Lich's Phylactery can't be a living thing

Make another lich your phylactery.

>>4963271
Choo Choo

>>4963310
It's for two reasons:
1. It avoids all bullshit like in >>4962848
If all Liches did that (or something to much the same effect) they'd all be unkillable.
2. It's a lot more badass.

A real lich makes his phylactery a beautiful fist sized gem on the end of a platinum chain and places at the end of a supremely difficult dungeon! Anything else is just... Lame!

And of course, while the adventurers go through the dungeon we kill all their loved ones or do other terrible things to them. So even if they beat us, we've made their lives no longer worth living.

>>4963320
my god you are a fucking idiot

>>4963271
This. It only makes sense that a Lich has to remain so many yards close to it's soul.

>>4963206
This. Right here. This fucking ALWAYS works.

>>4963332
I don't see how making the only way to kill you is to kill another lich first a bad idea.

>>4963365
because it has to be a magic item not a creature you fucking twat

>>4962939
Now that's interesting. In the SRD, it DOESN'T say you reform next to your phylactery, and ditto in the 3.5 MM. Wild.

>>4963374
Bullshit. Mother fuckers are always talking about how some random PC or NPC is the Phylactery.

>>4963167

This is the best idea so far. Just need to make sure to memorize Selleck's Greater Hawaiian Shirt.

>>4963389
and they are fucking idiots

>>4963406
I think you're just a dick

Isn't there an epic spell of some sort that lets you split your phylactery into 7 different items? I think someone mentioned it in another lich thread and how you could use it over and over again.

>>4963421
no they where thinking about creating one that did that

How about you hide it in a room with no doors and the walls lined with lead

how would a Dry Lich from Sandstorm hide his 5 phylacteries?
My current ideas are:
1. drop in bag of holding. use sharp object to pierce bag.
DMG p248 states that if the bag is pierced, the bag is ruined and, and I quote, "All contents are lost forever."
Lost forever != destroyed. Lost forever = I literally never have to worry about anyone finding it.

2. Find a way to use the Creation spell that creates a personal demiplane that has all properties decided by the creator. put phylactery in demiplane. set the properties of the plane to allow no transportation in unless it is the soul of a recently slain half orc dry lich keyed to the phylactery in the plane, or out unless it is a planeshifting half-orc dry lich keyed to the phylactery in the plane.

3. ?

4. profit

Any other suggestions, ideas, flaws with my current ideas, etc?

>>4963456
and stash some back up gear in there as well

>>4963465
also, half orc dry lich = my character in case it wasn't painfully obvious

Infinite Improbability Phylactery: You phylactery appears everywhere and nowhere all at once

>>4963465
most of my dms would say that Lost forever = destroyed would destroy the Jar if you did that to the Bag of Holding

Wouldn't a phylactery have a strong evil aura? So yes, you *could* hide your phylactery in some sort of currency, or magic item, but you'd be relying on NO paladin EVER casting detect evil on the person holding it.

I think as a Lich, I'd rather have my phylactery in my control somewhat.

>>4963465
If your DM lets you use this loophole, he's a bad DM, for he ruined the game.

>>4963484
strong Aura of Necromancy not evil

>>4963484
could you put a permanent casting of nondetection + some sort of aura hiding spell on it?

>>4963492
Lead lined box

Lost Forever = it cannot be found, nor can it return.

When you resurrect next to it, you find yourself in the same situation = irretrievable, and unable to return under your own power.

>>4963218
>>4963260
Why was this changed again?

in addition to phylactery storage, there's also a few tricks you can use with it.


-use an astral diamond as your phylactery
-deposit said astral diamond phylactery at a bank
-kill yourself
-reform inside the bank vault
-steal shit, port out

>>4962821
last time we had a lich pop up DM had a semi new idea for his phylactery basically it boiled down to one brick in his castle being the phylactery and the idea was casting detect magic/evil wouldn't work much because he had been in the castle for the last few hundred years so magic and evil pretty much made up the whole thing

>>4963508
they Become a lich for free with out having to spend gold or exp on the phylactery and the don't get the +4 LA when they hit 20th level

A cute little girl.

>>4963524
So? They've still spent 20 levels of experience in a class with fuck all spells and only a few good class features to do that.

Most DMs know go with the second edition description of the Bag of holding, wherein destruction of the bag dumps all contents into the Astral Plane. So someone has the same odds of finding your phylactery as they would have of finding it if you epic-teleported it randomly somewhere in outer space.

>>4963531
>epic-teleported it randomly somewhere in outer space.
Clearly you leave it on your observatory in the asteroid belt of your planetary system. LICHES IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACE

the idea of a lich not respawning next to his phylactery is amusing. I imagine a lich is killed in his fortress, only to respawn completely naked and gearless on the other side of the planes. Cue FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK.

>>4963530
That's why you gestalt with sorceror.

>>4963545

Yeah, I can imagine that a lot of liches would be really embarrassed to respawn naked.

>>4963562
it's not that he is naked but that he doesn't have any money or protective items

>>4963562
well not so much the naked part, but it would sure suck for a wizard lich to appear without his robes, components, books, etc

>>4962934
I was thinking a needle, inside an egg, inside a duck, inside a hare, inside an iron chest, buried under an oak tree, on an island in the middle of the ocean.

Good god holy symbol. Who would cast detect evil on an Alter of Bahamut?

>>4963573
>>4963583
one divination spell later and it would be found, that's why i keep saying hide it in something lined with lead

>>4963573
Someone talking 'bout my egg?

>>4963573
sounds like that one guy from Slavonic mythology. Something or other the Undying/Immortal

>>4963573
This. Liches used to be classy.

Research Epic Spells. Cast Pin To The Sky, enjoy your phylactery remaining in geosynchronous orbit forever. Hope you keep a Flight spell memorized in case of death.

Back in the day, liches didn't just respawn from thin air.

When their bodies were destroyed, their souls would travel to their phylacteries. To regain corporeal form, they would have to possess a nearby corpse. If there were no corpses near their phylacteries, they were in for a long wait.

>>4963597
Yeah, yeah they did. Who's another famous one?

>>4963592
Iron functions as lead, depending on mythology.

>>4963610
turn it into a piece of jewelry and give it to your greatest enemy.

>>4963606
>Back in the day, liches didn't just respawn from thin air.

>When their bodies were destroyed, their souls would travel to their phylacteries. To regain corporeal form, they would have to possess a nearby corpse. If there were no corpses near their phylacteries, they were in for a long wait.

THIS. Work around this. Graveyard? A Cemetery-style Dungeon filled with corpses and undeads?

>>4963617
that i didn't know

>>4962821

You called?

>>4963625
Oh holy shit how could I forget him?

Phylactery storehouse in the negative energy plane.

>>4963637
Faeries don't like iron, for one thing.

Carry it with yourself like a fucking idiot and forge Xanatos Gambits to corrupt paladins stealing them back.

>>4963653
>Phylactery storehouse in the positive energy plane.
FTFY

>>4963641
No, no we didn't. Go back to chillin' at the North Pole jerking off to your enchanted sword.

>>4963654
They don't just "don't like it", it physically hurts them to just be in contact with it.

>>4963656
along comes a grey guard and your fuck

>>4963625
don't forget the powerful enchantment spells to make anyone who looks at it desire it, to the point of killing their best friends and betraying their beliefs to possess it.

Make Harry Potter your phylactery.

>>4963673
Arshat is Santa Clause?

>>4963677
>fucked

I would make the phylactery into the craziest high-CR construct I could think of whose only desire is to kill whatever isn't me.

>>4963606
I was comparing the Lich template to the Draco-Lich template and was all "Holy Shit, Draco-Lich's suck".

>>4963682
Where is your nose?

Exactly how broken does an item have to be before its considered no longer operational as your phylactery?

Say I make a convertible my phylactery and then I put the top down, does it stop working?

Also I still want to know how to stat a Lich entirely made up of smaller demi-lich's.

>>4963641

He isnt a true lich, their souls fused and inhabit an immortal body. He simply dont needs one.

Or maybe he have hundreds of them, who knows, considering that he is in the middle of a huge HAHA JUST AS PLANNED with the PCs.

>>4963682
Well, it's more like "make a whole bunch of phylacteries, hidden in ingenious locations all over the world, but find out that you have unintentionally made a part of your greatest enemy's body into a phylactery."

On of my favorite ways to hide a phylactery is to take a bag of holding (preferably one that you've created in the shape of something else), step into a anti-magic circle, drop it in, and step out. Your phylactery is now trapped in a nearly unreachable space.

>>4963728

>Say I make a convertible my phylactery

Add surf rock and bitches. Receev epic.

>>4963696
...This is my next BBEG and his phylactery.

>>4963710
I HAVE LONG SINCE EVOLVED BEYOND THE NEED FOR NOSES.

>>4963731

The one in the ending of the fifth? sixth? book was great. I lone wizard would've been immobilized by the poison he drank and activated the undead minions under the lake. It was impossible to breach it alone.

>>4963739
Great, now I've got this image of the Beach Boys as liches.

>>4963750
It was the sixth I think, because it was the last thing Dumbledore did before he died.

I enchant my phylactery to only have damage reduction 1,000,000,000/Pelor's Tongue, with 1 hp.

Then I tape it to his elbow.

>>4963656

I bet he thought being the most powerful lich ever and sitting in the middle of a flying fortress guarded by legions of undead, flesh golems, giant spiders, death knights and a hueg frost dragon would be enough.

Plus his phylactery had a mental field around it, urging people to give it away.

>>4963625
So they can toss it into a Volcano?
Great plan man...

>>4963782

>mental field

Psychic fied. It was strong enough to drive weak willed people insane and force them to suicide which is pretty awesome.

>>4963747
Duck ate nose, eh? I have same problem once. Long story short, I shove duck in rabbit's ass. lock in box. Never lose again. You try. is good.

Make your phylactery into a brick.

Cast Nystul's Magical Aura, and make it so that your phylactery doesn't appear to be magic.

Spend some of your amazing wealth to build a few dozen orphanages throughout the nation. Make sure that each orphanage is composed mostly of brick, and that the workers there are decent people (good aligned is a plus, but not necessary) who will care for the kids but remain loyal to you, the guy who paid for the orphanage and pays their salary.

Replace one brick in one of those orphanages with the phylactery brick.

I feel like a fag because I think >>4963641 looks better than
>>4963625

>>4963592
Lead doesn't block divination spells. Your house rules variant has no relation to what everyone else does.

Do evil things

Pretend to be a mindless skeleton with and attack with a sword

No one will even look around for your magical respawn bauble.

Don't hide it, flaunt it. On the hand of your beloved.

>>4963573
i see what you did there

>>4963807
Or build an orphanage and THEN make the whole thing your phylactery! They can't destroy it now!

>>4963629
The Ressurection Processing Room at your local good-aligned church.

>>4963826

Make the Virgo Supercluster your phylactery!!!

>>4963629
Become the grave digger at a local church. Make your Phylactery a small holy symbol, bury it under one of the graves.

>>4963826
Yes, but it works better with camouflage. You'll be better off if they have lots of orphanages to choose from, with only one correct answer.

Besides, if you make it a single brick, not only is there a chance that the PCs will miss a brick or two in their attempt to destroy the entire orphanage, but, if you make sure its a brick on an inside layer (i.e. one entirely surrounded by bricks), any divination spell they use to find it will show only bricks.

Ok, I create a demiplane.

It's a maze: self contained shape, objective gravity, all kinds of stuff to get you lost and trapped. Strongly negative energy dominant, and fire dominant. Pack it full of wraiths by the simple act of dropping in loads of peasants, plus the occasional strong undead.

>>4963856
"It's... it's covered in bricks!"
"Shit! Can you tell where?"
"Um... an orphanage?"
"SHIT! Can you even tell what it is?"
"I dunno, all I see are bricks!"
"SHIT!!"

>>4963886
Here's the cinch though: the plane is Highly Morphic or Sentient. It's nature is to draw the phylactery away from threats.

>>4963856
I've always thought it was weird that all the protective enchantments and tricks on the phylactery has no effect on it's primary function. Namely to re-spawn the lich.

Covering it entirely in lead+cold iron so it's undetectable? Won't that have an effect the soul link between it and the lich? Heck, if the thing is ENTIRELY undetectable by any means, how does it work? How does it know to turn on when the lich's body is destroyed?

>>4963909

An ever-changing maze with a master that won't stay dead? Where have I seen that before?

>>4963940
The Lich's soul inherently realizes (without the need for detection) that its body was destroyed, and so automatically (thanks to the magic of the phylactery) generates a new one in the nearest convenient space.

>>4963901
Drawfags?

>>4963958
Dude... it's just a bunch of bricks, wtf do you want drawn?

>>4963940
Lead will only hide it from Divination spells not the Soul Link between the Lich and his/her phylactery

>>4963940
basically there is a piece of the lich's soul in the thing, and when the lich dies, the soul acts either like the other end of a rubber band, or just like a homing signal.

the part of the soul is represented in the exp lost creating it.

I think it's best to rule that the lich's soul needs some way to connect to and control the body; if you perfectly obscure the phylactery, the lich body crumples into an inert corpse and a new lich body begins to grow at the phylactery.

>>4963972
>>4963966
>>4963954
In other words, hiding the thing does nothing. Divination on the soul link itself, which would look like a line leading from the lich to the phylactery.

Hell, hire a Gith, they can see things like that.

>>4963966
Then you divine the Soul Link between the phylactery and the lich body; all you need to do is follow the spooky ghost string from the lich body puppet to the lich soul puppeteer.

>>4962821
A grain of sand in a desert or on a beach, good luck finding that one again later though.
A hair on a bear in the middle of a forest, Bonus points for all the hair on the bear so someone ends up wearing a phylactery cloak. (There is the problem of reappearing bear back riding but hey, use Dominate Animal and you have a ride back to your lair.)
If you can get more than one then random NPCs, prefferably ones who you then help to become strong and powerful through manipulation and string pulling, things like trying to kill 'King Egbert the Just, warrior of the Ten thousand tribes and Scion of all things Good' (And their natural good aura covers the evil aura) in the middle of his palace really get you in trouble, and the Bad rep is a good point for damaging the adventurers. Even better Kidnapp their friends and Family and make them phylacteries.
A random stone in the wall of the dungeon you live in, leave it there and watch them just walk past it to get to you, detect necromancy negated by hiding it behind another layer of bricks and a thin layer of Lead. Or a Coin the horde in your inner sanctum, then have a really obvious phylactery-looking thing which is tapped to high heaven, they survive, break it and take the loot, 1d10 days, you're back.
Forge a Holy avenger look-alike with your phylactery as a hilt stone, Kidnapp a Cleric to make it Holy enough to pass for a HA, then make it level drain the person weilding it or anything else you fancy giving the party paladin...like Piles.
>>4963320
And that would be awesome. Get the other Lich to make you his phylactery too. Eventually try and get every Lich you can find to join this massive phylactery web so none of you can ever be destroyed unless the Adventureres kill all of you within 10 days of each other.
>>4963696
Score, one better though, make it a flesh Golem made of entire corpses held together with stiching, then you just climb out the centre in your new body when you reappear.

Regardless of where I hide it, I tape a small envelope to my phylactery:

This item begins a quest.
Objectives
Take the Phylactery of the dread lich to <authority figure in nearby kingdom>.
* The Phylactery of the dread lich (Provided)

Description
The phylactery is all that remains of the dread lich you destroyed. The king would pay you handsomely for this artifact. Although you could destroy it yourself, the royal court would be more effective at doing so and will ensure the Lich would not return. It would be better morally and financially for you to turn it into the proper authorities. Upon completion of this quest, you will be be able to choose one of three rewards

I alwayst thought bone fragments slowly forming out of thin air and growing together is scary. Keep it that way.

>>4964014
the soul link doesn't happen until the lich's current body actually dies.

so yes, once you kill the lich you can find the mcguffin by following the soullink.

>>4964029
Wait, so the soul actually needs SOME valid path (along the Soul Link) to get back to the Phylactery? What if all possible Soul Link paths are blocked? Is the lich destroyed, or does the soul just kind of go off and do its own thing until it finds a way back?

>>4963020
1. Build your phylactery into a reserve spellbook.
2. Drop into the gray waste.
3. ????
J. Profit

>>4963958

Here you go!

On the moon, ten thousand years in the future.

"At last! After ten thousand years, I'm free!," etc.

>>4964001
>>4964015
SOULS DO NOT WORK LIKE THAT

A Lich isn't actually using his soul. That's why all Lichs are inherently evil, and why they're stuck in a non-dynamic mental state. And they lack emotions. Srsly, you guise. A Phylactery just allows the Lich's spirit to have someplace to go, and rebuilds a body for him. It's not permanently linked and doesn't need to be. That's why destroying a phylactery does not kill a Lich, and killing a Lich does not destroy the phylactery. Faggots.

Make your phylactery as normal. Put it in a portable hole. Put the portable hole into a portable hole. Continue ad naseum.

My Lich character in game right now Hit the Paladin's baby sister with a Sleep spell. kidnapped her. And hired a Cleric that can heal. He removed her rib and replaced it with a adamantie rib that was his phylactery then used mage hand to tie tiny near invisible wires around the rib and her heart. If anyone tried removing it without knowing the wires were there they'd kill her. Then the healer fixed her and he hit her with an amnesia spell and put her back. Then he killed the healer he hired and animated him.

>>4964072
you just destroyed your phylactery good job dumbass

>>4964051

Recruit a team of adventurers with attitude.

>>4964074
A healers is useless as a healer as a zombie.

>>4964090
No bag of holding was involved. Thus, no rift was opened. DUMBASS

>>4964074
Phylactery is worth 120,000gp, plus your adamantium cost and the strings linked to it. It's practically a lighthouse for any bard.

>>4964043
when we talk about soul links, guiding and paths and etc, we are really being metaphorical, the way the soul travels is not like anything the mortal mind can comprehend.

i think there might be one or two spells that specifically imprison a lich's soul once you kill their current body. but that doesn't destroy the lich since the moment the mcguffin that holds it's spirit is destroyed it will just go back to the phylactery.

also make your phylactery a magical object that is keeping an innocent little girl alive, so that the party would have to kill the little child to kill the lich.


or even better, make the phylactery a magical birth mark that passes from one family member to another, so you would literally have to slaughter an entire bloodline to kill the lich.

>>4964093
Only if you look at it from the "trained professional doctor" perspective and not the "HOLY SHIT BLUE HEALING LIGHT RADIATES FROM MY FUCKING HANDS" perspective; I don't see why a zombie couldn't do the latter.

[The healing spell shouldn't hurt the zombie any more than it hurts a cleric to cast an 'inflict' spell.]

>>4964096
doesn't matter you can't put an extra dimension item into another extra dimension item

>>4962848
HURR YOU'RE A DURR

Where do you reform to? The extradimensional space that doesn't exist? That's worse than destroying your phylactery yourself, dumbass. You're immortal, but don't technically exist once someone kills you.

YOU'VE CREATED YOUR OWN HELL.

>>4964109
a phylactery has to be an item not a birth mark

>>4964116
Stop making up rules and then expecting everyone else to know/follow them.

>>4964115
Because it no longer has the healer's soul and is filled with negative energy.

>>4964134
To be fair, they're pretty clear about "bags of holding in portable holes" and similar causing bad shit to happen. I think you can bring your bags of holding and portable holes into your mage mansion, though, so I don't think his rule holds.

I make my phylactery an active component in a machine that will destroy the world.

Destroying the phylactery destroys the planet. Good fucking luck, chumps.

>>4964134
who the fuck says i made that up, that rule has been around since the portable hole and the bag of holding you dumb fuck retread

>>4964109
Except soul links can be severed by a vorpal weapon. They can be seen with divination spells. WE might not understand how magic works but the characters do. Divine the link, slice it with a vorpal weapon, head back to the tavern for some ale.

Hence why a lich would want to keep it /relatively/ nearby or else some jerk with a div scroll and a semi-common magic weapon could just wander around and destroy him from a ridiculous distance.

>>4964115
>>4964108
The Paladin doesn't know that it's there and she already had an aura of Necomancy as she was permanently scarred from a past evil that touched her(the motivation on why Darious became a Paladin in the first place). So it's nearly undetectable. I killed the Healer and raised him simply so his secret died and hey... he was relatively good combatant in life as well no reason for it to go to waste.

>>4964139
Oh, sure. Obviously you'd want to use a spell that turns them undead without getting rid of the soul.

That said, in this case his idea was to get rid of the witness, so that's not really important. What IS important is that now the healer's actual soul is off somewhere and has an inkling about what the lich did, which is playing it pretty risky on the lich's side.

>>4964145
Nowhere does it say you cannot place a portable hole in a portable hole. So it should be fine.

>>4963940
itsmagiciaintgottaexplainshit.jpg

>>4964162
oh wow, spending an hour reading threads tends to make my responses seem delayed.

>>4964154
you are thinking about the silver thread that connects you to your body when you travel the astral plane

>>4964133
in the older editions it didn't have to be, and if this is going to the THE BBEG of his campaign, then why not make him unique in that his phylactery doesn't have to be a random piece of jewlery.

though, what about a gemstone embedded in the hide of a red dragon with a spell on it that the second the dragon dies, unless it is being held by something living, the phylactery teleports back to the lich's possession

>>4964161
Actually is specifically SAYS you can't...or that you shouldn't.

>>4964157
Doesn't matter, by the rules a bard knows about it because of it's value. It'll be phrased "I heard a rumor that someone was gathering X amount of magical reagents used for making a phylactery and a bunch of adamantium... maybe as a rib in THAT GUY".

>>4964178
WHERE

>>4964195
not only is that metagaming as hell. The only person that knew about it's exsitance is me and my undead friend as I forged it, made it, and already had all the ingrediants to begin with. Didn't need to buy anything. I melted down an adamantie sword to get it.
Plus according to our DM all information is FIND OUT IN PLAY. No rolling a bardic Knolege and just knowing it out of nowhere. Though it does help sometimes depending on what the subject is.

>>4964218
Not in the SRD, that's for sure. Makes it clear that Holes and Bags are Not To Be Combined, but doesn't say anything about two or more of the same flavor.

>>4964237

No one noticed the sister was missing? Sounds like there's a lot of ways that the PCs could find out.

>>4964218
DMG for 2nd ed, 3rd ed, 3.5.

You must be a 4th edition player since they didn't list that rule in that version.

>>4964218

"If a bag of holding is placed within a extradimensional space a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a extradimensional space is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the extradimensional space and bag of holding in the process."

>>4964256
Yes. Infinite stacking, I say. TURTLES ALL THE WAY DOWN.

>>4963760
"(I'm Being Hurt By) Good Vibrations"
"Pelor Only Knows (And I Paid Him Not To Tell)"
"Wouldn't It Be Nice (If I Could Keep My Skin On)"

>>4964195
If some cockwhore tried pulling that shit in one of my games...

I'd firmly state my displeasure, and then insult him anonymously on the internet.

Create a demiplane with a time displacement effect in everywhere except the hidden chamber with the phylactery in it, an ever-shifting maze, and some ability to stop them from teleporting directly to the phylatery. It'll take them more than 1d10 days to reach the phylactery, thanks to the time displacement effect.

When you die, take the thing with you, teleport to another plane of existence, and restart your plans

>>4964263
lets not bring an edition war to this thread please

>>4964237
So the DM just handed you the 120,000gp worth of rare and exotic spell reagents for making the phylactery?

No no, just grabbed them at the local pharmacy, they had some freshy harvested central eye of an elder orb beholder in stock.

>>4964237 I heard a rumor that someone melted down a adamantium sword and forged it into a vessel of great evil... maybe in the form of a rib in THAT LITTLE GIRL!

These things need better rules than, "lol you reform in 1d10 days"

Maybe something like this.

The phylactory is a lich's personally crafted 'heaven,' and is where his soul will go when his mortal form is destroyed. At which point he will slowly regain his consciousness inside his phylactory. Over the next 1d10 days he will attempt to fuse his soul to a suitable, nearby, non-animated corpse. If one is not within 100 ft it will take him 1d10 years to locate one for every 1 mile (radius) he has to search.
He may be trapped within his phylactory for eons or forever if it is too far removed from a place where a dead body of his own type might be found.

The phylactory must be crafted out of an object that can be engraved or contain magical writings and must be an object that could never naturally contain a soul.

The smallest it can be crafted would be dependant on the tools availiable and skill of the creator. The size will be equal to however large the magical writing/engravings. Typically they are small enough to be held with one hand, with higher levels of skill moving down to ring size.

It can be made a large as one would wish, but the larger it would be, the easier to detect, divine, destroy or modify it would be.

>>4964262
the dice were rolled and everything that could have been done to know she was gone for two hours in the night was rolled. Everyone that was around her were given their various perception checks as normal every hour she was gone.

>>4964272
It's Bardic Knowledge, part of the "Magic" of a bard. Unless you think that singing at someone would give them bonus HP and somehow make them harder to hit with spells is non-magical in of itself. It's the main reason for BEING a bard. Might as well say monks can't punch people in armor because they'd hurt their hands (no Ki) and wizards can't cast spells because there's no way to turn the calories of a sandwich into a magic missile.

>>4964266
Not bags of holding. Portable holes. ASS

A simple one I heard awhile back. Put a bunch of protective abjurations on a gold coin. Make one of them your phylactery. Then spend them all and hope nobody notices the enchanted coins.

>>4964295
and where would you hear that rumor?

>>4964263
>>4964266
Nope. 3.5DMG says "Hole and Bag" and "Bag and Hole". Never uses "Interdimensional Space" when referring to that reaction.

HOWEVER: I think that the entrances to any two interdimensional spaces should never be combined. SO, just grab your Hole, fold it up, and lay out another. Since the entrance only exists while it's laying flat on a surface, no harm, no foul.

I'd just rig my phylactery to something that'd destroy the planet. This way, I can do what I like, and rely on the heroes never considering it worthwhile to destroy the phylactery.

>>4964328
Unless they get another planet. Or another plane.

>>4964284
Took me four months real time to find all the materials and such as secretive as I possibly could doing everything myself. You guys can pick anything apart if you want to so there's no use of arguing. Also we don't have any Bards in the party which makes it no concern of mine.

>>4964300
I spend the 120,000gp on ale and whores. I kick the dirt while stumbling out of the whorehouse I just spent the last 3 months in. This has slightly altered the planet. Fulfilling the requirements for casting the Lichdom spell. The entire planet is now my phylactery (as large as I wish).

>>4964328
Make it the keystone in a mechanism that detonates a huge magic bomb.

>>4964335
Good thing there are no bards in taverns. Or that nobody would notice 100x the GNP of a small kingdom being spent on rare magical reagents used exclusively for creating liches.

>>4964272
Yes, let's make the bard EVEN MORE USELESS by denying him his DEFINING CLASS FEATURE.

FUCKING.
BRILLIANT.

>>4964305
>>4964365

bards are a fucking retarded concept and you know it

>>4964365
I fully think that it horribly metagaming to Wake up out of nowhere and say "HEY! BARDIC KNOWLEDGE I KNOW ABOUT IT! FUCK YOU LICH PC" and ruin any fun in the game. The game is not about "hurr I fuck you over" The game is about playing a story. And my friend who plays the paladin is now more excited about what I've done than anyone b/c it's going to make for some FUCKWIN role playing. People here seem forget the game is not about one upping one another.

>>4964361
and a dread necro doesn't need to spend any gold to make his

>>4964365
>MORE USELESS
Impossible. Arguement Invalid. Discarding data...

>>4964365
Bards are overpowered. They needed to be nerfed.

>>4964392
What splat book is Dread Necro in?

>>4964390
Fine. Your lich has to consume 50,000,000 calories worth of food every time he wants to cast fireball. Also. Thinking about it, he no longer has muscles or ligaments connecting his bones so he just crumbles into an inanimate pile of bones. Can't have MAGIC or SPECIAL ABILITIES can we?

>>4964430
Heroes of Horror

>>4963743
...Superman

>>4964430
Heroes of Horror, at level 20 hes allowed to enter Lichdom free of charge

>>4964393
Say there's two classes. The first one is called DERP. A DERP loses all skill points, feats, spell progression, and proficiencies they get from any other classes they might have taken before. You can take more than one level in DERP. This does nothing.

The second is called HERP. It is exactly the same as above, but you can roll a d20+your HERP level times two+int mod+wis mod for any knowledge check and gather information check. You don't need to be trained in the knowledge check in order to roll for it, and the rule for rolling knowledges untrained is ignored.

Herp > Derp, yes?

>>4964440
To be fair and ignore his immature ramblings he does have a point, Bardic Knowledge isn't supposed to be a magic tool that gives him insight into the world. Its an ability that relies on his charisma and the people he knows to find things out in terms of fluff.

If the DM wants to be a dick bag and have him roleplay it out, well fuck whatever.

>>4964337
you dont cast a spell to make a phylactory.. it's a ritual and you'd have to engrave the entire planet by yourself. and any passing animal could kick dirt over the engravings and ruin it and it wouldn't be a phylactory anymore. Dirt has hardness 0.

>>4964440
TROLLIN AND ROLLIN MOTHAFUCKAS!

>>4964450
Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords (weeban fightan magics)
Iron heart surge away the condition of living in a world with a lich in it.

>>4964461
HERP = DERP, because both are extremely poor allegories for bards. Therefore, HERP=DERP=BARD=SUCK. Arguement discarded.

>>4964474
The planet became a phylactery so it has hardness 40. This probably also stops all farming and mining. It also becomes one gargantuan object with billions of HP.

>>4962821
>>>LOLI LICH THREAD GO:

That's what I read.

>>4964484
TROLLIN AND ROLLIN MOTHAFUCKAS!

>>4964518
...

...fuck, that would be awesome

there is a difference between functional magic (this is a fantasy afterall) and retarded bard bullshit HURPADURPA I KNO IT :))))

>>4964518
FUCK YEAH

1) Become a lich.
2) Make your best friend a Lich.
3) Exchange phylacteries, always wear on person.
4) Enjoy living forever and ever.
5) Profit!

Nowhere does it say that bardic knowledge is a supernatural ability

Therefore, it is not

>>4964557
The bard is a man of the land. He travels everywhere listening to tales and rumours. Why wouldn't he know of things more than a paladin who spends all day praying to his god of choice?

>>4964562
I just imagined adventurers rushing in to slay a Lich, and when they get there, the Lich they killed a little over a week ago has reformed and is standing next to the Lich they were after this time. The Liches brofist as a double sized meteor swarm crashes down on top of the adventurers.

>>4964485
They weren't allegories for bards. They're an example so that I can show my first point clearly.

Type "www.Anon" into your address field. Follow with "Talk" and finish it off with a nice ".com". Now press enter and bookmark the resulting page. Then remove 4chan from your bookmarks. You have now seen the light. Welcome.

ggfjjksyshgygyfffyfhhndihygykokdhohdfgygghnjogh

>>4964589
oh...my...fucking...various gods and goddesses....holy fuck that's awesome...

>>4964573
Except that if he's been with the party the whole time since this event happened, he hasn't been in any position to listen to more rumors than the rest of the party unless he actually SAYS he's going to go out and listen to rumors at some point while everyone else hangs out around town.

>>4964511

I like this idea, The planet, and everything solid and inanimate connecting it will became a sort of magical undead iron and the lich's phylactery. All plants, animals and humans eventually rot away creating huge organic swamps. The lich becames the overlord of the planet killing and reanimating every human except some chosen breeders and starts invading other worlds through dimensional gates.

the example phylactory in the book may have had hardness 40, as that was the hardness of the base item that was enchanted.
the adamantine rib bone above would retain its natural hardness that adamatine has unless it was further hardened by additional magics.

if it was made out of leather it would have the same hardness that a piece of leather would.

it wouldnt become a phylactory until the entire ritual was completed without error.

>>4964594
Your first point was about bards. this example, then, to have any sort of relevance, must also be about bards. Discarded.

>>4964603
Sounds like a fair houserule. We can both agree that every system has its flaws and if I were DM, I'd rule that if the bard hasn't been doing his barding, he suffers penalties or is barred from using bardic knowledge for recent events.

>>4964632
I just want to make sure he doesn't travel around with the party in the wilderness killing left and right, raiding dungeons, and then still somehow keep up to date on current events. Unless he's getting some kind of Bardic newsletter via travelling animal messengers, which is so awesome I'll have to have that from now on.
Middle of a tense fight, a gnoll runs up, hands him a scroll with all the latest news and rumors, and then hauls ass out of the area.
Climbs up a treacherous mountain face, avoiding tumbling rocks and the occasional tremor, and a Harpy lands on him, sticks a note in his pocket, and flies off, almost sending him tumbling to his death.

>>4964659
i lol'ed at that

>>4964445
The phylactery would basically be a giant, extremely friendly and super loveable construct that is best friends with the Lich. And the Lich is best friends with him, too. They hang out, do all kinds of fun stuff, fish, that kind of thing. And he's even nice to the party, pretty much. But when the Lich gets injured, or god forbid killed, he gets understandably upset. If you've seen the movie you'll know what happens next.

Make your phylactery out of a Skeletor figurine.

>>4964817
Then cast Permanent Animate Object on it.

>>4964659
Permanent Telepathic Bond, perk for joining the Bard's Guild. Every bard knows what every other bard knows, webbed with guild HQs where librarians can look up or write down facts. Sort of a medieval fantasy wikipedia.

>>4964919
So every bard is essentially a terminal to be accessed for information, their personalities and memories being diluted and filtered out amongst the minds of thousands of others? Each bard is now one over-bard, with a multitude of individually operating bodies?

1. Be a graftmage.
2. Craft phylactery as grafted item.
3. Craft item of Summon Monster IX that summons monsters indefinitely as long as it's turned on.
4. Cast that one spell that alters its magical aura of an item on your phylactery to make it appear to be something else(Phylactery of Wisdom +6 or something)
5. Graft it to a high-level NPC with adventurer class levels that dislikes the party.
6. Cast Genesis from a scroll and send NPC and Summoning item into the sub-dimension.
7. Stock sub-dimension with food, drink and healing items.

Even if they do find out where it is, they have to plane shift there, then they have to fight some guy that's been doing nothing but eating, drinking, sleeping and fighting for the amount of time it took them to find him. If you set it up right, you would also have a permanent status spell on him so that you know when he dies and you can just plane shift in, grab the phylactery and plane shift out before the heroes realize what's going on.

Yes, I am a dick. What of it?

>>4964284
if you are high enough level to become a lich, then you should have a crap load of reagents around you. and if you WANTED to become a lich, you probably killed all your companions that you were partying with and took their things to make even more reagents.

so yeah, you don't need to go to castlemart to get 120gp worth of stuff to make a phylactery, you still might need to get a few things but not necessarily a lot of crap.

>>4964981
That's metagaming. It requires spending 120,000gp on the phylactery. It doesn't matter if the lich has a giant warehouse'o'reagents. He still needs to buy more because whatever the phylactery is made of, he won't have it.

>>4965074
1. Give 120,000 gold of reagents to merchant
2. Buy reagents off merchant
3. Kill and animate merchant
4. Hide money there, let investigators assume whatever

1. phylactery
2. make it cast planar shift on self every 1 second.
3. watch as it disappears, and the only way to catch it is to kill you, and let you respawn at its location so you can deactivate the plane-shifting.

>>4965324
You end up with a second's worth of reformed bone in each plane.

>>4965074
how is building a backstory about how the lich became a lich any more metagaming than saying "NO THIS LICH HAS TO BUY REAGENTS!!!!!!!! MUST SPEND 120K IN GOLD! I DON'T CARE HE HAS TO SPEND THAT MUCH RIGHT NOW, AND NO HE CAN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING SMART TO DISGUISE IT!!!!!!"

ITT: ppl don't realize that being a butthurt rulelawyer is just as much metagaming as saying that a lich might have had the hindsight to purchase his reagents from multiple sources and perhaps recycled stuff he has for some of the materials.

>>4965371
I'm assuming that he means the planeshift effect automatically shuts down when he dies and needs a new body.


personally i would just set it so that a second before dawn, the coffin, that holds a body that is related to me and my phylactery, would automatically teleport to another graveyard on the other side of the world, so it would constantly be in darkness, and i would always have a spare body of my bloodline just for that personal touch to one's vessel.

Speaking of Liches not spawing next to their phylacteries, does a Lich's body explode or disintegrate or something when they die? Otherwise, I guess it makes sense that if you stab the Lich through the head and kill him, that a few days later he'll simply pull the sword out, heal and then stand up again.

I guess it was left vague because it lets people do whatever they think is coolest.