I have this game. Godamn, it's too complex. I want simple stats, not HURR THIS DOES SUMFINK BUT WE NO TELL YOU WAT LOL.

*goes back to /v/*

Love the games.

Though I don't think any tabletop really replicates the experience.

Why does this look like a Transformers/NGE-crossover?

I equip 2 Nexts with Bazooka arms and Missile chains, 1 Rayleonard blade next, and a machinegun next.

I have successfully won the campaign.

>>5761711

I can't help you there.

>>5761715

>>5761673 here. How do you beat White Glint? Motherfucker is FAST.

>>5761711
Also, skating Robots look gay.

>>5761733

That's only during the mission, in Arena he's just as simple as the rest.

Infact, the Torus next and Roadie are more annoying, and I based my primary AC killer that I get decent kills online with off Roadie.

>>5761699
You can, you just have to zoom everything the fuck out. Make models tiny, make the map fucking huge. Turn everything up to 11 as far as attacks go. Like 100 bullets and 30 missiles in one round. The only real problem is figuring out how to make it not just a "i shoot everything" fest in 1v1.

>>5761779
Epic wouldn't be able to do this, we'd have to completely make a new game.

>>5761788
Than make we shall.

>>5761733
>defeat White Glint
Dual gatling cannons on a high speed NEXT.

Or kidnap her girl...

...wait, that's not canon. Sorry.

How will we implement Spirit of Motherwill, who is 600 meters tall, and 2400 meters wide, and could step on an Imperator to kill it?

sure is shit tier AC in here, us Ravens laugh at you fucking reject "nexts"

>>5761823
>White Glint
>Her

God you're a stupid fuck. The pilot is a male, the lead from AC4. The operator, who acts as the voice of the character, is a woman.

We tried making AC4A into a TTG. It ended up getting bogged down with the insanely complicated stats.

If you could abstract them down to something simple, it'd be fine.

Also:

MERRYGATE

>>5761840
Our shit tier Nexts killed you in the National Dismantlement War.

Also, this is coming from a Raven. lol

>>5761840
Except Ravens are in every way inferior to Nexts. Slower, smaller, less firepower, etc...

>>5761849
The majority of stats can't even be converted to tabletop. brb. Firing up my game and trying to convert.

>>5761841
I can't hear you over the sound of how ambiguous the game was.

Fiona = <3

>>5761673
Really? I loved it, and understood what every stat did. Though I have been playing since Armored Core: Arena, so I suppose it's due in large part to having the stats gradually introduced to me. I suppose it all comes with the simulation feel they were going for.

>>5761885
Fiona reffered to White Glint in the game as Male.

>>5761905
And there's no way she'd lie about it.

What does it matter anyway? It's not important in the end.

>>5761892
It doesn't help that the manual tells you NOTHING WHATSOEVER about all these different stats and the intro to the game itself is just a three minute tutorial that teaches you fuck all.

Being a mass murderer has never been this easy

I like the walking city/aircraftcarrier/weapons platform concept, might use that.

>>5761944
Brotip, you can hit back/select to get a description of what each stat does when in the garage.

KAY. I got each and every stat. O means it should be included in a tabletop version. - means it would make the game better/deeper but is not needed. X means it should be excluded

O AP
O Ballistics Defense
O Energy Defense
O PA Rectification (amount of shields you have)
O PA Durability (whenever your shield takes damage you subtract this number from the damage to see how much shield you lost)
- Stability (certain weapons can cause your mech to stagger, Stability counters that)
X Camera Functionality
X Systems Recovery
O Weight
O EN Cost (certain parts and weapons have static energy drain)
-Maneuverability (how quickly your arms can move while shooting)
O Firing Stability (anti-recoil)
O Aim Precision
O Energy Weapon Skill
O Load (how much the legs can hold)
X Turning Ability
- Lock Speed
- Missile Lock Speed (I can see these in a system where it works not on turns but a sort of stop-time system)
O Lock Distance
O Blade Lock Distance
O Lock Target Max
-Parallel Processing (helps aim two weapons simultaneously faster)

(cont)

>>5762372
O Radar Range
X Radar Refresh Rate
O ECM Resistance
O EN Output
O EN Capacity
O KP Output
O Vertical/Horizontal Thrust
O Vertical/Horizontal Energy Cost
O Quick Boost Energy Cost/Duration/Thrust/Reload
O Over Boost Energy Cost/KP Cost/Thrust
O Assult Armor Attack Power/Range
O Ballistic/Energy Attack Power
O PA Attenuation (damage done to the PA)
O PA Penetration (damage that passes through the PA)
-Impact Force (can stagger/stun mechs, should only be included with stability)
-Ballistics Velocity (should only be included if the system running it is very intensive on distance and uses a stop-time/real-time type system)
O Firing Range
O Shot Percision
O Recoil
O Melee Ability
O Magazine Capacity
O Cost Per Round
O # of Magazines
O Reload time
-Blast Radius
-Missile Acceleration
-Missile Flight Time
-Missile Agility
O Fire Rate
O Projectile Count
O Continuous Fire Count

>>5762372
>>5762382
When I say "stop time system" I mean a system that works off of in-game time. For example, let's say your character has a reflex time of .1 seconds. His opponent makes an action at 30 seconds, for example, shooting a gun. It takes .2 seconds to get out of the way. .1 second is wasted realizing the situation, and the player makes a check to see if they can move out of the way in .1 seconds, which he would obviously fail.

It's to make the game feel more action-y, though I've never really gotten it to work.

>>5762382
>>5762372
Now, a lot of these need to be abstracted and compacted down into more simplistic mechanics to make a tabletop system viable without being LOLMATHS

>>5762018
100 Million

Any Epic players in here? i want to start getting a Titan legion in Armageddon then use the rules for other engagements because GW is too lazy to make a better expansion, and how bad would it be to minmax just to make a Titan Legion?

>>5762446
They are pretty simple already, it's just there's a lot of them and it looks daunting.

O AP/HP
O Ballistics Defense/DR to Ballistics Damage
O Energy Defense/DR to Energy Damage
O PA Rectification/"Shields", directly correlates with duribility
O PA Durability/ Base DR. Reduces proportionally with the remaining shields. (ex. PA.D of 50 with 50% shields left gives you DR 25.)
- Stability/ Bonus to a dex check against staggering.
O Weight/Weight of a part, has to be below the mech's load.
O EN Cost/subtract total EN Cost from EN Output to get a modified EN output.
O Firing Stability/Gives you a buffer against the number of high recoil shots over a certain amount of time before your aim is skewed.
O Aim Precision/Accuracy modifier
O Energy Weapon Skill/Energy weapon damage modifier
O Load (how much the legs can hold)
O Lock Distance/Max range
O Blade Lock Distance/Max range of a "charge"
O Lock Target Max/How many enemies can be locked*.

Locking multiple enemies means you can shoot at them in rapid succession, you need a lock to fire at an enemy (without a huge penalty) and it allows you to shoot and kill multiple enemies without having to lock each one after every kill.

>>5762544
Clarification to Weight.

The total weight has to be below a mech's load.

But these are pretty self-explanatory as to what they do, it's just sticking dice to them is the trouble.

>>5762446
>a lot of these need to be abstracted and compacted down into more simplistic mechanics to make a tabletop system viable without being LOLMATHS
No fucking shit.

You can't replicate a videogame's play feel just by stating everything up. If you could then goddamned GURPS would be the best system for everything!

To hell copying the videogames stats and systems! Look at what you get out of the videogame, and then make a tabletop game that gives you the same experience.

* Putting mechs together from parts
* Dodging all over the place
* Energy management
* Frantic fast paced action

>>5762644
To make it fast you want a system with small number, few die rolls, and easy math. No spending five minutes adding up success from a pile of d6s, adding in a half dozen modifiers, comparing it to a target number, looking up the result on a chart, and then waiting for your opponent to do the same in order to dodge.

Energy management, keeping with the above, should use low energy numbers. Instead of subtracting from an energy pool you add up till you hit your energy limit. Adding is only marginally faster than subtracting, but every second counts when you're trying to make a game as fast paced as Armored Core.

Dodging means fucking moving out of the goddamned way. We want this game to feel fast and dynamic, and that means moving your miniature giant space robot even when it isn't your turn! If an enemy misses you it means you get to move a hex (or more if you've really optimized for speed). It missed because you dodged. Armored Cores are extremely mobile, even the big heavy tank ones. So none of this abstract D&D stand in one place and whale on each other BS.

The complexity of the parts depends on whether you want players to swap parts mid-game, or over the week between game days. If you want to swap mid-game, then the parts shouldn't affect each other much. That way you can replace your mechs legs without having to recalculate your entire character sheet.

Either way they have to combine to give you a handful of easy to use stats. Stats need to be designed with combat in mind, because it's so important that we duplicate the fast-paced feel of Armored Core's combat. We can't have people stopping the game to puzzle out what a stat means or looking it up in the rulebook.

Bump for progress.

>>5761737
fuck you

>>5762662
As a avid player of the entire AC franchise, I disagree with this post. While the mechs may move fast, bullets move fast, and missiles move at a moderate pace, I wouldn't call the combat "fast paced" unless you're running blades. I think it's much more important to preserve the pressure of trying to outwit and outfly your opponent while still managing your ammo and energy.

If you don't know what I'm talking about then you should get out of this thread because you havn't a clue.

>>5762754
>My opinion is better than yours. Kill yourself.

Now now, kiddies. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.

which mech is it in the intro of Op's post?

>>5762821
White Glint

Ironically, White Glint is neither the protagonist nor the primary antagonist. It isn't even very good against Arms Forts.

>>5762861
He was the protagonist of AC4 (though he piloted a different mech then). ACFA is a different story.

>>5762754
Perhaps I am a bit biased. I always preferred machine guns, sniper rifles, and energy blades.

Also I have to admit I haven't played AC4 or 4A much at all.

>preserve the pressure of trying to outwit and outfly your opponent while still managing your ammo and energy.

Yes, that is extremely important.

To be able to outwit an opponent, the tabletop game has to support tactical options. Fast-paced, or at least what I was talking about, isn't opposed to tactics. It's just opposed to very long turns. Armored Core always forced you to make quick decisions. If you have 20 minutes to sit calmly and think out your actions, because everybody is taking 5 minutes per turn, then it doesn't really replicate the pressure.

Trying to out fly your opponent is supported by having lots of ways of enabling movement (e.g. moving out-of-turn when you dodge). There's no real chance to out fly anybody if you always move the same number of hexes each turn no mater what.

Managing ammo could be done with checkboxes. AC weapons may have tons (literally) of ammo, but it's depleted relatively quickly. So we track the ammo by how many times you can attack with it before depleting your ammo. It would also necessarily be lower than the actual numbers used in Armored Core.

Managing energy could be done with a small track on the side of your AC's stat sheet. Move a bead X increments down the track each time you use energy. Push it back up X increments at the end of each turn. We could also reduce the number of increments to make this a bit easier, and to make people worry more about running out. Again, we couldn't use the actual numbers from the videogame since they're HUEG.

>>5763034
I honestly think putting this into a turn based system is the wrong thing to do. There's just no way it could feel authentic at all if one person flies circles around the other while he can't move. It would need a system with simultaneous turns to be done correctly.

>>5762754
Screw that. That's fun if you like mathhammer.

The prerendered movies sum up what AC is supposed to feel like. These things are fucking walking tanks, but they've got so many rockets and boosters on them that they can glide across the god damned ground at two hundred miles per hour.

Look at the video OP posted, for example. Look at how White Glint killed the goddamn minimechs (forgot the names now, haven't played in a while). Guns akimbo at high speed, in the middle of a spin. If that's not high-speed, dynamic combat then I don't know what is.

>>5762662 has the right idea. Streamline and cut down. This needs to be fast. Have complex creation rules and stats and limits if needs be (and I think it'd be good, personally), but when it comes down to using them everything should be quick and easy. Yeah, that advanced target lock you got for nine thousand creds may weigh twice as much as the old one and have three times better cooling facilities and half the energy consumption, but when it comes to in-game, it gives you +10 to BS, +1 extra lock and increases your available energy by 15.

>>5762662
where did you get this

>>5763034
What the hell is that on her can? Two people 69ing?

>>5763072
>It would need a system with simultaneous turns to be done correctly.

Simultaneous turns is hot shit when done right, but I haven't seen many examples.

Check out this preview for a dragon mid-air-dogfight game
http://www.slideshare.net/LeviKornelsen/havoc-tutorial-1

Players choose their moves in secret, and then reveal them simultaneously. The rest of the game is pretty simple. It doesn't even use any kind of map or grid.

How can we steal these ideas and incorporate them into our hypothetical Armored Core tabletop game?

Honestly, I still say AC3 was the best, both in gameplay and in story.

The total lack of heat combined with the fucked up targeting system pisses me off, though the later might be a bit nostalgic. I liked the extra skill involved, even if it was a bit awkward.

>>5763112
I think, to be honest, the game (at least Answer) is a combination of both.

Part of you needs to be thinking very carefully about absolutely everything pre-mission, and everything you're doing from the very start. Planning and re planning even as you enter combat, assessing the situation and evaluating your options. You need to be constantly reconsidering everything, planning three moves ahead. At the same time, however, there's a certain level where it just becomes frantic, reflexive mayhem.

Take the Intro, for example. That long flight in, you should be thinking absolutely everything over in your head again and again, planning your attack till you've got a flowchart going on what to do and how to counter every possible counter. Nuke a group of reinforcements before they flank you, use the incredible speed and agility of the NEXT to your advantage to turn the battlefield in your favour before you even start.

As soon as you touch down, it all becomes instinct and adrenaline.

>>5763177
People often bitch about For Answer being "too easy" and getting rid of heat and whatnot.

I just have to say, playing this game is NOT easy. If you need proof, try fighting CUBE.

>>5763112
Your type of thinking is why games like Halo and Gears are popular.

>>5763205
I'm not worried about story mode, I'm talking the versus shit.

Fighting other people has always been where the games real draw was, at least for me.

Story mode in every game was just a matter of strapping the biggest guns on the heaviest AC you could build and then fucking everything. Occasionally you'd need a machinegun for fast opponents, but their movements have always been so predictable you can just wait for them to fuck up and then fuck them up.

>>5763214
Halo and Gears are popular because they're not bad games.

A game doesn't have to be mind numbingly complex for it to be good.

>>5763233

I have never been able to predict Cube, Reiterpalasch, or White Glint.

but yes, Silent Line and Armored Core 3 are the best, next to Armored Core and MA.

I reckon it'd be a good thing to keep actively-used (ie, ones that you have to constantly reference and roll agianst in combat) stats as few and as simple as possible.

- Speed: how fast you are, either in squares, hexes, inches or whatever
- Ac: or Accuracy. Determines how many locks you can have, and how accurate they are - if we use a percentage system then this is easily done as the tens being lock numbers and units being accuracy.
- Dodge: how manoeuvrable you are. Roll against this to dodge enemy shots, instead of them rolling to hit you. You suceed, you move a square/hex/whatever in any direction that would take you out of the line of fire. You fail, you don't, and you get hit.
- Energy: Used to boost, overboost and fire energy weapons. Pretty simple here.
- Shields/Armour: does what it says on the tin.

For other, less common stats, maybe these:

- heat: Is a simple number, starting at zero and decreasing by a set amount (set by your background stats on mech creation of heat consumption and your radiator's performance) each turn, back to zero. Increases when you take hits from heat-based weapons, overboost, etc.
- Weight: mainly a background stat for balancing mech creation, but might also be used to determine knockback, and have an effect on your Dodge ability. Slower legs/frames will have a higher weight limit (and thus low Speed/Dodge) while quicker ones will have a lower one (and thus higher Speed/Dodge).

>>5763256
Don't have a speed and a dodge rating.

Make your opponent's chance to hit based on your speed for that turn.

>>5763256
Some clarifications:

Accuracy can be done with a D10 - roll under the units number to successfully lock on, which can be attempted a number of times equal to the tens number.

Energy would replenish/decrease (depending on which way the system is worked) at a set rate determined by your generator.

>>5763278
Could work, but I like
>>5762662
's idea that movement should be pretty constant, even when it's not your turn.

>>5763239
I somewhat agree with the former, but...

AC:4A is not mind numbingly complex. I've seen worse. I will have to say that not being mind numbingly complex is good, but I do believe people can have some complexity in their games without requiring autism-level dedication.

>>5763233
My experience with 4A on normal was that, at the beginning, you're a NEXT, but it was far from being a cakewalk. They literally would run circles around you with weapons and gear leagues greater than your peashooter could hope to do with your shitty FCS and Backup RV diesel Generator that they call a NEXT engine. When you got up to their skill level (Basically second/third playthrough, hard difficulty), things were certainly on a better leveled field, but you still had to stay on your toes a lot, both design-wise and in combat.

Laser based weaponry on light mechs has always been the best for me.

In story mode, you NEED a laserblade or high-laser cannon to even survive. In versus, laser blades are fucking useless and too easy to dodge (unless your opponent is a tank mech.)

Missiles have always been too easy to shoot down and they don't do enough against shielding.

Ballistics weaponry is either too weak to be useful against other mechs, or too heavy and with few too shots to count.

Plasma weaponry is just like laser weaponry, but with less shots, and it pierces shield less, which results in less damage overall, even if it does cut down on it.

Riddle of Steel is a good example of simultaneous actions during combat.

I found it extremely easy using the starting GA AC or the Rayleonard one.

>>5763328
Missiles aren't easy to shoot down if you know what you're doing.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5761657/

Thread is archived. Vote it up so we can keep working on this game!

In regards to turn order, how about something similar to what GW did with LOTR? Both players doing a movement phase, then a shooting phase, etc etc, but the decision on who goes 1st in a specific phase being decided by who gains "priority". In this case, this could be determined by specific stats: speed may help determine priority for movement, but something like accuracy may be more useful for getting the first shot fired. This could lead to situations where more "shooty" mechs will deliberately try and get the first shot not to try and kill their opponent, but to force them to dodge, thus moving them out of a favourable position.

IMO it should be a dice pool system like shadowrun.

For things like shield, you roll xd6 and you MATCH whatever numbers you get to cancel out attacks. For example, someone attacks with a rifle and 1, 2, 6, and you roll a 1, 2, 2, 4, 5, 6 with your 6d6 shield - you've just canceled out all his damage. Weapons with multiple shots can take advantage of multiple numbers to attack, but weapons with single shots only get to pick one. For example, with a grenade cannon, the player could only use one number in that set (most likely picking the 6).

Regarding mech creation/customisation, breaking the different parts down into a few seperate categories for your major systems (head, core, arms, legs for creation; generator, radiator, targetting matrix, boosters for subsystems, for example) would work best. All parts have a weight rating, energy rating and heat rating.

-Legs determine your base speed and your max weight limit.
-Arms determine how heavy the equipment on your arm hardpoints can be
-Head is where your senses go, and determines your base AC.
-Core is important. It houses the radiator, generator and boosters, and determines how many (if any) back/shoulder hardpoints you have.

-Generator manages your Energy stat (capacity/recharge rate), and determines the base rate of heat consumption for boosting, etc.
-Radiator manages your Heat stat (threshhold/cooling rate), but uses more energy (represented by reducing your Energy capacity) the better they are.
-Targetting Matrix modifies your AC. If we use the D% system, then it's a simple addition.
- Boosters determine your Dodge score, and your boost/overboost speed and cost (in both Heat and Energy)

>>5763398
Or Arm/leg turning capabilities?

>>5763328
>Missiles have always been too easy to shoot down and they don't do enough against shielding.

They're fun to use for psychological warfare. Fire a huge wall of missiles at a guy so he'll be distracted by them while you sneak up with a more lethal close-range weapon. Or launch a super missile so he spends all his time trying to run away from it.

How can we mimic that in a tabletop game? "This missiles going to hit you unless you move where I want?"

>>5763409
I've never really gotten on with dice pools. They can only increase the odds so far, and only at a few increments. I find % systems are quick and easy, and work for a large amaount of things.

>Missiles have always been too easy to shoot down and they don't do enough against shielding.

I won 3 matches in a row against 4 people because of missiles, the bazooka arms are wonderful, but the right missiles are fucking awesome. dodging is easy too

>>5763409
(cont'd)

To lock on, you just roll your targeting computer + any bonuses from additional external radar fixtures. To lock on to something static, it's a free success, but to lock on to something moving, you need to match their Speed rating. (For example, an extremely fast mech might be a 5 or a 6, whereas a tank mech would be like a 2).

Dodging would work just like shield - you "gobble" attack dice from your opponent's attack pool. However, unlike Shield, dodging can only use one dice - your highest, but dodging can't be reduced, whereas your shield die pool can be "cut down" temporarily by successful attacks.

>>5763420

Possibly. I went with speed and accuracy because they were stats being tossed around earlier as possibilities.

>>5763432
Maybe when a weapon is fired it 'threatens' the hex your standing on. Dodging means you get the chance to move out of said hex. Missiles would have a higher spread of hexes that they threaten, forcing extra Dodges (which could be taken away from your Speed next turn maybe) to get clear, or just sit there and take the hits.

>>5763409
>IMO it should be a dice pool system like shadowrun.

What happened to fast paced?

>>5763476
I don't think we should apply "hexes" or "squares" to this game - distance should just be descriptive.

>>5763457
Dice pools just feel clunky and unnecesary - it's just adding more numbers in to keep track of and complicating things.

>>5763476

Wouldn't "direct fire" weapons (i.e. anything that fires in a straight line: machine guns, lasers, etc etc) threaten a line of hexes, as opposed to a missile barrage's cluster of hexes?

>>5763494
Fair enough. Maybe give blast weapons (or spread weapons like machineguns) a radius which the target has to get out of?

>>5763507
Yeah but i think as long as you kept it >10 dice, the system could be fun, and it has a great belle curve and is a lot more variable and dynamic than a d%.

>>5763514
Maybe. It might be simpler just to disallow dodging directly backwards from the firer - if they're shooting from the north, you can't dodge into the hex to your south.

>>5763527
Keeping in under ten dice means you've got a pretty linear set of numbers, and you opportunities for modifications are small - it's like using d% and ruling that all modifiers are in multiples of 20.

>>5763542

In that situation, wouldn't you want to rule out dodging to the north as well? Dodging INTO oncoming fire doesn't really seem like a sound tactic.

Oh god, why hexes?

Hexes just seem like a bad idea. Most games besides DnD don't even use tabletop grids anymore, it's just clunky and stupid.

>>5763570
>hexes
>clunky
Hexes are less clunky than having to measure out everything with a tape measure or a piece of string.

Plus you can use the awesome Hero Scape terrain tiles.

Right, weapons.

You've got a number of hardpoints. Two arms basic, then your core determines the rest. Max of 2 arms 2 shoulders and 2 support. One weapon per hardpoint, with heavy weapons (over a certain Weight) only allowed on shoulder hardpoints.

Weapons need stats:
Damage (obviously)
Accuracy*
Weight
Energy Consumption/Ammo (energy weapons deduct their EC from your Energy every time they fire, solid shot ones deduct 1 from their ammo pool)

*Accuracy can work in a few ways, depending how we do dodging and speed. If we keep dodge as a simple check to see if you get the option to move out of the way, then maybe have your Speed (divided by 2? Or maybe a seperate stat all together) determine how many hexes you can move per turn in a dodge. Any extra hexes you move to dodge (which is optional) are deducted from your Speed next turn.

>>5763568
Yeah, I kinda figured people would get that without having to say it.

>>5763570
I seriously doubt this game would work very well without a tabletop system. Too much measuring.

>>5763619
Just don't measure distances at all.

In most games i run, the player just says "i move x feet in x direction" and the DM narrates the surroundings. I fail to see why you need to hardline distances - even stuff like weapon ranges can be estimated.

>>5763619

Holy fuck I can totally picture Armoured Core battles over that map, for example Player A has to guard a convoy moving along that road across the island, Player B has to go in and fuck the convoy's shit up.

Or just 2 mechs blasting the crap out of each other, there's plenty of ruins to use as cover.

>>5763650
Because that really defeats the point of having speed/boost/overboost, and takes away a lot of the dynamism.

>>5763650
This is not a D&D style RPG. Combat takes fucking ages in D&D. This is set up entirely around fast, agile fighting, and visual representation is king for that.

Think Inquisitor rather than Dark Heresy.

>>5763635

I figured in terms of dodging that all mechs can dodge 1 hex per turn for free, but above a certain speed mechs gain extra free dodge hexes. I suppose the key is how many times you would allow a player to fire in a single turn: allowing only 1 or 2 weapons per turn would mean that extra dodge hexes would go towards manoeuvring into a good position, whereas multiple weapons would require multiple dodges, requiring the number of dodge hexes to be higher before eating into their next move.

Friendly reminder to vote up this thread on the SupTG archives. You wouldn't want to lose all this valuable brainstorming, right?

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/5761657/

>>5763698
Could do it a couple of ways.

1. Fire or move a number of times equal to your speed. Light (arm) weapons can be fired as well as moving, but hevier ones mean choosing. Use any weapon, but only one at a time.

2. Action points, or something similar. Maybe based on your Energy score. Moving is seperate, but restrictions on light and heavy weapons still apply. One weapon can shoot once per AP.

>>5763748
Energy would be a better indicator for how many actions you can take per turn, rather than speed.

>>5763748
I like 2 better. Means light mechs can't shoot as often, but can move faster, while big heavy ones (with more energy) won't move as far, but can put out a veritable shitstorm of fire.

>>5763748
>>5763797
So if a player had 8 AP, how would you stop him from using his laser blade 8 times?

>>5763833
In game, simply boosting backwards while shooting with high impact weapons stalled for 1 second, allowing you to just fire away, bazooka arms and missiles or cannons work wonders here.

>>5763833
You wouldn't. If he wants to get stright up close and keep chopping, then he's welcome to. It'd cost him Energy, and the opponent would still get the chance to dodge (backwards as well, in this case) each strike.

>>5763856
So dodging costs no AP? In that case, would the number of squares you can dodge be based on your speed?

>>5763891
Probably. Maybe it's the amount of squares your boosters modify your Speed by? Better boosters augment your base speed (given by your legs), and determine your Dodge Speed.

>>5763891
yes

How are we doing stats? D10/20 would be better with the hex system, but % is more flexible for modifiers. I'm thinking Speed, mainly.

>>5764024
Depends on scale. D100 could still work for hexes if we're on a large scale. If we're doing something more manageable though, D20 might be better.

>>5761905

WOG says 4A's Glint is a girl.

And it's natural that those who know her wouldn't go around telling people these kinds of specifics.

>>5764235
It says it in game, Defend Line Ark, where Fiona specifically says White Glint is a he.

>>5764267

And it says in various other sources, including the official web site, and her arena entry or whatever, in game, that she is a she.

And the reason for this discrepancy is somebody goofed during the recording phase.

You guys are worse than the Aerith crowd.

Main thing that pissed me off with AC4 after coming into it straight from AC3/Silent line:

Heat doesn't matter any more.

>>5764340
After playing Nexus you would have rejoiced.

Damnit this thread makes me want to play Armoured Core again. Last one I played was number 2, do I need to play AC3 to make sense of the plot or can I skip straight to AC4?

>>5764310

uh huh yeah

>>5764446

AC3 and AC4 plots have different settings.

I don't think so.

BUY A PSX
BUY A PS2
BUY A PS3 SLIM
BUY EVER ARMORED CORE GAME
NAVIGATE HUMAN PLUS SAVES FROM 1 ALL THE WAY TO 4 ANSWER
BECOME A REAL MAN

>>5764391

I'm not going to deny that managing your Heat Output was annoying at times, but it was also one more way to knock out opponents in arena and added a decent level of realism for a game about piloting giant mechs.

I'm allowing Kojima to explain the sudden appearance of crazy skating mechs, as well as shielding, but I doubt that it's capable of super-cooling mechs during stressful maneuvers or while being hit with high-heat explosives like WADOU rounds.

>>5761657

Who else here wants From Software to finally release Metal Wolf Chaos outside of Japan?

>>5764446

Eh, not really. I like to think there's a sort of loose continuity between them, depicting a cyclic history in which man's folly is that in desperation to gain more and protect what he has, he allows his weapons to outpace his wisdom and suffers when they're turned against him.

...

...

But most people say they're alternate universes with no continuity between them, and sit rocking in a corner humming really loudly if you try to convince them otherwise.

>>5764456

Yup.

>>5764557

I don't know about Alternate Universes or not, I'm just talking about the settings themselves, which go from "CONTROLLAR EVERYWHAR" to "COMPANY NATIONS KILL EACH OTHER OVER DEADLY PARTICLES IN THE ENVIRONMENT."

>>5764522

ACs could skate since the original, or do you mean the crazy vernier-all-over-your-body thing?

Because damn I loved that.

>>5764594

I meant the crazy Vernier all over your body thing.

It's fun, but completely different from what I'm used to in 3 and Silent Line. I'm still trying to track down a copy of 2 and 1.

>>5764488
PS3 has no games.

Armored Core 3's story was amazing until that final cutscene.

The entire final mission was fucking awesome, but the build up to it was absolutely intense.

I especially liked it when all the companies had been depending on you because you were the only Raven who wasn't some sort of crazy, and then they figure out your goal.

And that you'd already killed anyone who had a chance to stop you.

>>5764310
>>5764267
>>5764235
Maybe, but the wacky theories it generates are awesome.

Fiona is the only person to ever called White Glint "he" in the game. Nobody else even knows who it is and most people seem to think it's a woman.

Fiona Jarnefeldt is covering (badly) up the fact that White Glint's previous pilot was killed in action and SHE IS the pilot now. It's sort of a psychological warfare thing to keep up the myth of White Glint being invincible.

Also note: after the Defend Line Ark mission, LA offer you Glint's parts. This implies they managed to retrieve it after it was apparently destroyed, and should also give a bit of foreshadowing as to the Hard mode ending of the ORCA path.

Without the protagonist, who would inherit the legend next?

>>5764580

Oh yeah, certainly.

Each numbered entry marks a decided shift in the setting, so you aren't going to see major plot elements from say, Nexus, show up in AC4...

Unless that next-gen AC was a NEXT...

Hmm....

I'm currently playing Armored Core 1 for ps on mah emulator.

Shit is hard to control without a controller...

AC3 pisses me off.

We can click the right analog stick

but we can't use it for movement or looking around?

wtf

>>5764639
Radio Shack sells Ps2 to USB converters for 5 bucks.

>>5764677

I can't remember if it was Nexus or Silent Line who introduced the 'ZOMG NEW CONTROLLER SCHEME' that 'ZOMG UTILIZES THE CONTROL STICK'

It was terrible, and if you switched to the 'old style' you went back to not being able to walk if you pressed the stick only slightly.

The very final mission of AC4A was just completely insane.

First you murder one hundred million innocent civilians.
Then your only loyal friend abandons you.
Then Michelle Ruff sets a trap for you with a vague briefing message and holy shit Arcuied get off this game.
Then suddenly it's you and the Old King versus not one, not two, but FOUR of the highest ranked NEXTs in the entire game.

And THEN just to top it all off, Serena Haze herself, your operator, actually gets off her ass and COMES TO KILL YOU.

THAT IS HOW BAD YOU FUCKED UP

>>5764712

It was not Silent Line.

>next White Glint pilot

Is it wrong of me to think of May first? I mean she just fits the requirements. She's dedicated, hopeful, and probably the only honest Good Guy in the whole game.

>>5764718

The other two endings were pretty awesome in their own right.

>>5764679
Huh, Cool, I'll look into that.

>>5764775
The first path is nice, but nothing particularly epic.
The second path, especially on Hard mode, is full of WAIT WHAT.

>>5764718
I liked that ending, but it still doesn't compare to the companies in AC3 calling you and begging you not to do what you're going to do.

They sit there and just plead with you, it's amazing.

And it highlights that Armored Core is like reverse Shadowrun.

>>5764806
Row Row Fight The Power?

I maintain that the only way the story behind AC4A could be any more epic is if White Glint was the protagonist. Imagine coming BACK FROM THE DEAD and proceeding to fight through ORCA, the League, Otsdarva's cunning master plan, and all the other shit in between just to conquer the world and bring a decisive resolution to mankind's darkest age without taking millions of innocent lives or sacrificing the freedom of humanity for a tenuous short-term survival.

>>5764857
No, more like "Fuck you guys, I'm going to perhaps doom us all on a hunch."

The reserve shadowrun is that instead of "Hire these guys to do a job for us, kill them afterwards." it's "Hire this guy to do a job for us, hope to shit he doesn't decide to come after us later."

insted of using the HEX grind just play in normal tarrain like with the ruler.

But still using the HEX with diferent sizes.

Get it ?

>>5765053
look dumb

explain ?

>>5765053
wut?

Don't use hexes, but use a hex system?

>>5765168
>>5765230

yeah ...well
the mech's have diferent sizes so their walk/run distance are diferent

so using HEX is a good idea but insted of using a entire Grid just use some HEX as the same size.

will do something in paint to show my idea

>>5765168
>>5765230

lol i actually liked my idea

i will stick with it

sorry if i didn't make it clear

>>5764773
Well Nobless Oblige sure as fuck is an honorable dude, but he already has his title, and by the way, and equally sexy design.

May fits the requirement of being alive. Somewhere around 37 of the Lynx can be killed and she isn't one of them. Unless she was on Cradle 03. Yet she hasn't displayed Joshua Obrien or Unknown's moral objectivity. She's just sunny around the PC... unless Shamir involved.

>>5764718
Don't forget the NEXTs that team up were on opposing sides of the ORCA war, I like to think Wynne was probably fighting Thermidor at Cranium when the whole thing went down, and they actually stopped when Haze contacted them, and they both immediately decided to kill you instead.

what is the Averange size of the mechs in AC ?

>>5766132
Believe it or not in the history of Armored Core of all the statistics that have come and gone to the score or so each part now has, not one has ever been height.

Ingame the NEXT sizes are actually negligible All the legs come to the same height, and just about all the cores rest the head at the same height as well. However this handy guide would show that NEXTs are 10 meters tall...

>>5766207
And this less than accurate guide puts one Normal AC around 6 or 7 meters at best.

Would now be a good time to mention I've worked out about 75% of a ruleset for tabletop AC4 gaming? Anyone interested in the shit I came up with?

>>5766207
thank you

and i was thinking in using Cores with 4 meters tall

>>5766251
I am

I doing one my self to

>>5766285
I doubt there are many MTs that small. Also I think these particular motherfuckers are at least 12 meters tall. But no one was discussing them, where they?

>>5766251 here

Currently the rules only apply to NEXTs, but with small tweaks it could include Normals/ACs, MTs and other combat vehicles easily.

Combat takes place on a hex-grid map. Turn structure takes place over three phases, movement, combat, damage. Phase 1 happens with player 1 moving ONE of his his units, then player 2, then player 1 again, until all units (likely not many) have moved. Player 1 is at a disadvantage here (player 2 can react to his movement) so they take it in turns over the course of the game to move first.. Then player one attacks with his units, then player 2. All attacks take place simultaneously, so it does not matter who goes first. Destroyed units are not removed until the very end of the turn, as movement and combat is meant to occur simultaneously.

NEXTs all possess the following statistics, which are determined by the parts they're made up of (a very simplified version of NEXT creation from the games).
Maneuver: Slow NEXTs have a MAN of 2, while fast ones have a MAN of 4. There are two uses for MAN. Firstly it determines how many free hex-facing-turns the NEXT gets in a movement turn, over the course of their entire turn. Going above this costs movement points. Secondly, this determines the NEXTs 'dodge'. Dodge is used in combat rolls.

Movement: Slow NEXTs have a MOVE of 8, while fast NEXTs have a MOVE of 12. An average MOVE is about 10. MOVE is used in three ways. Firstly, it is used to move from one hex to another at a cost of 1 MOVE per hex. Secondly, if all MAN has been used it can be used to turn further hex faces. Thirdly, MOVE can be sacrificed to increase the NEXT's dodge total to up to twice their MAN rating. For example, a NEXT with a MOVE of 10 and MAN of 3 can sacrifice three movement (meaning they can only move 7 hexes) to increase their dodge total to 6.

(more)

>>5766325
I though 4 meter would be great , cause i was planing in use some small town as batlefield.

and averange houses are 4-8 meters .

but what the hell i go for Big City and builds.

>>5761841
while we're on the subject of fail, take note of this guy:

>>5761849

MERRYGATE is the mech. I believe the name you're searching for is MAY GREENFIELD.
btw: we need O'Brien back from the grave. he's the ultimate bro...

>>5766429
Whoa now Ellipse, they've only just now gotten around to stipulating in one of the AC timelines that pilots are not their ACs, even though most of them still uses their AC names as monikers. It's nowhere near the level of a misnomer calling a pilot their mecha in other /m/ series would be.

>>5766509
ok, you win. I am confused right now. can you please simplify that?

no seriously, I am mindfuck confused right now with what you just said.

>>5766391
Armor: This is between 60 (for light NEXTs) and 150 (for heavy NEXTs). It is a combination of damage resistance and AP, just to make things easier. Having both energy resistance AND ballistics resistance, as well as a seperate armor stat would just get too complex. Armor is reduced by damage. When halved, players roll on a damage table (not yet worked out) to see what major damage the NEXT has for the rest of the battle. When reduced to zero the NEXT is out of the fight.

FCS Max Range: This is the maximum total number of hexes the target can be from the NEXT before it cannot be targetted by ranged weapons. This depends on a combination of FCS and head-part. This stat numbers between 10 (quite short range) and 25 (quite long range).

Accuracy: This is between 70 and 120. It will be explained in the combat section, but basically the higher this is, the better.

FCS Missile accuracy: Similar to the accuracy statistic, however in this case LOWER is better. This is between 10 and 40.

Blade/FCS Speed: This is determined by the FCS or the blade in question, and used in determining combat using blades. The worse of the two statistics are used.

Energy max/Regen: Determined by the generator and the entire physical body. Doesn't often come into play unless lots of high energy items (E.G. Energy weapons) are used. It ranks between 40 and 80.

Primal Armor max/Regen: This is between 40 and 80. Weapons have an PA:ARM ratio, where the first number must be applied to their PA total before the ARM total can be applied to their armor. If PA is depleted completely, double the ARM total is applied.

(more)

>>5766531
Pilots refer to themselves and other pilots by their AC name. I can cite at least five instances offhand from AC4A.

In short it's a totally well established collation. As opposed to someone talking about Gundam Wing calling Trowa "Heavyarms".

Also the second half was commenting that to the best of my knowledge AC4A is the first AC game where a pilot actually changes ACs during the game (having skipped 2, AA and Ninebreaker.) So it seems to be the first instance that shorthand could possibly have a distinction.

>>5766538
Oh, I forgot to mention. After movement and before combat, all NEXTs may move one hex facing for free. This is to give them a better chance of getting an enemy into their firing arc.

There are five kinds of weapons. Missiles, direct fire (single), direct fire (burst), Blades, and rockets. NEXTs may fire two weapons a turn. After ensuring the target is in their weapon's arc (a fairly simple procedure), the following statistics and processes are used to attack.

Missiles stats
Barrage: How many missiles fired when 'shot'.
Missile agility: How likely the missiles are to hit
Missile damage: Damage PER missile that hits.
PA:ARM ratio: For each missile, this much PA damage must be assigned before ARM damage is assigned.
Ammo: How many barrages the missiles can fire.
How to attack
1. Roll 1d100.
2. Subtract (FCS missile accuracy + Missile agility).
3. Roll 1d10 for each MOVE point the target added to their dodge (NOT base dodge) and each point of Anti-missile system if the target has it and decides to use it, subtract this from the 1d100 roll.
The remaining number is the percentage of missiles that hit. If below 0, no missiles hit.

For example. A barrage of 16 missiles that cause 5 damage (2PA3ARM) are fired by a NEXT with a missile accuracy of 15 and missile agility of 10. The target has sacrificed 3 points of movement to their dodge, and has no anti-missile system. The attacker rolls a 6 and a 5 for a total of 65. They subtract 25 (missile accuracy and agility) for a total of 40. The target rolls 23, which is subtracted for a total of 17. Quick calculation shows 2.7 rounded up to 3 missiles hit. The target suffers 6 PA damage and 9 Armor damage.

(more)

>>5766649
then I apologize. Logically, one would think a person with a name would be identified by that name.

Maybe I'm just forcing my view on others...

Now if these were characters w/o names (only names of AC's), then I'd understand using the AC name as an identifier. but names are names...

tl/dr: personal quirk overrode established pattern...

>>5766713
Direct Fire (single and burst)

Here are the stats and procedures
Direct Fire Stats
Spread: How inaccurate the shot is over range
Damage: How much damage the weapon does on a successful hit
Ammo: Rated 1 to 10. Would only be used in extended campaigns
Ammo (special): Would only be used for weapons defined by a low number of shots. The number of times it can be fired before out of ammo.
Range: A smallish number. This isn't the max range, this is the length of the range 'brackets'. Explained below
PA:ARM ratio: As above. For every X amount of PA damage, the target suffers Y amount of Armor damage. If PA is exhausted, the target suffers double armor damage.


How to attack
1. Count how many hexes are between the attacker and the target. Divide this by the range modifier, then multiply this by the spread. This is the weapon's inaccuracy.
2. Roll 1d10 for each point of dodge (natural and movement based) of the target, then add to it the number of hexes the target moved. This is the targets total avoidance.
3. Subtract the weapons inaccuracy and the target's total avoidance from the attackers FCS accuracy.
4. The attacker must roll equal or under this on a roll of 1d100 to hit the target.
5. If the target is hit, apply damage.

Example. The attacker has an FCS of 80, and is firing a gun with a spread of 2, range of 3 (a reasonably accurate weapon), and the target is 8 hexes away (reasonably close). The target has moved 8 hexes and has a total dodge of 4.
The target rolls 4d10 for a total of 21, plus 8 for a total of 29 (a large amount).
Attacker works out that since the target is 3 range brackets away and his weapon has a spread of 2, his total inaccuracy is 6. He subtracts 29 and 6 from his FCS accuracy of 80 for a total of 45. He must roll equal or under 45 on a roll of d100 to hit the target.

(more)

>>5766839
Direct fire (burst) weapons are slightly different. They function mostly like single-shot, but with one major difference, the Burst stat.

Rather then causing a fixed amount of damage, Burst weapons have a variable number of shots that have hit. This is determined by the Burst stat. When a target has been hit, roll a number of d10 determined by the Burst stat, and subtract from that the weapons total inaccuracy. This is the number of shots that hit. Multiply this by the weapons damage to find out how much damage has been caused.

This means that a Burst weapon is far, far more dangerous up close then it is at a distance.


Is anyone reading this, or am I just wordsturbating?

>>5766887
not wordsturbating, but wordspamming...

don't worry, the serious people are taking notes and comparing opinions...

>>5766425
According to a scale I found from /m/, White Glint is 10 meters tall.

I have not found anything stating FROM released it was a translation error that White Glint was supposed to be she. someone link me to the part they announced this, because if it was on some forum on the main site (which is unreliable), that's not from FROM or ubisoft, then the point is a spanning argument that is retarded. Like how the Italians believed Motherwill was actually a Command AF rather than BFF's only AF.

>>5766887
this is relevant to my interests. Please continue.

>>5766713
>>5766839
>>5766887

I was enjoying until this
but plz don't stop

>>5766887
i using templates as Range-Damage + acurracy of weapon.

and Burst efect if you are in close range the first target get all the damage

Wow, shooting is waaaay too complicated.

>>5766926

this guy show a pic of size comparison

>>5766207

>>5766887
Here's a pretty picture to lessen the wordspam.

It's pretty easy after this. Just rockets and melee weapons. Shoulder equipment provides special rules (E.G. Extra boosters increase your MAN (but not your dodge) and MOVE, while relation-missiles add a static increase to the number of missiles fired in a barrage).

Rocket stats
Damage/PA:ARM ratio: How much damage, altered by PA:ARM as usual
Speed: How quickly the rocket moves
Rocket Salvo: How many individual rockets are fired.
Ammo: Similar to Direct Fire

How to attack with rockets:
1. Roll the targets dodge as normal
2. Add to this the number of hexes the rocket travels to reach the target.
3. Subtract from this the number of rockets in the salvo.
4. The attacker must roll above this on a number of d10s determined by the rocket's speed. Only one rocket will hit, no matter how many are in the salvo, unless there is an exception.

Rockets are primarily close ranged weapons against NEXTs, and even then an iffy prospect. They will be more effective if the system is expanded to include other targets (vehicles, Arms Forts, etc) which have no Dodge value.

>>5767105
Blade stats
Boost range: Blades only engage if the target occupies the same hex as the attacker. During the combat phase the attacker gains this many MOVE points (used for move and hex turns only) to attempt to enter the target's hex.
Damage/PA:ARM ratio: As normal. Usually very high for blades.
Speed: How quickly the blade engages. If the FCS blade speed is lower then this, the blade speed is lowered to match.

How to attack with blades.
1. If using a blade, no other weapons may be used that turn.
2. The attacker uses the Boost range to attempt to enter the same Hex as the target. If this is failed, attacker is left in the hex he ended on but may not attack. If succeeded, continue.
3. Target rolls 1d10 for each dodge point they've used, while attacker rolls 1d10 for each point of blade speed they have.
4. If the attacker's roll is greater, the target is hit and suffers damage as normal.

>>5766968
You give mixed signals.

>>5767049
Keep in mind it's intended for small scale combat. Three vs three skirmishes would be pretty rare. Plus once someone knew the rules relatively well combat would go pretty quick. Count hexes, do basic maths, roll 2 ten-sided dice a couple of times, next guy's turn. Plus since movement (and if the players feel like it, combat) would be done on an alternating system, there's no time when a player is just sitting there waiting for his turn.

>>5767065
That's actually the scale I was talking about too lol

>>5766926
I didn't pay attention to any of that, I just blew shit up.

Normally I love paying attention to story and strategy and characters, but with AC games I never do. Why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO STORY.

Hell, only characters I paid attention to in AC4 and 4A were Merrygate's pilot ("Holy shit, a nice person"), my operator (because they were always fucking there), White Glint (because it used to be me in 4A, and in 4 it was obvious they were gearing him up to be the final boss), and me, because I blew shit up the best.

If they one day make an AC game with a genuine story other then "Lots of companies with tentative peace, shit suddenly hits the fan and lots of people die", I'll nerdgasm.

>>5767256
Hey.

Armored Core, Masters of the Arena, and 2.

>>5767283
I didn't play Masters of the Arena, but I did play AC and AC2. Their stories and characters were pretty bland as well. Though I will admit the email system gave you a much better view of the other pilots. I remember my youthful self thinking all those years ago "You sent me an encouraging email when I was starting out. You get to live. You, on the other hand, threatened me when I was threatening your arena position. You die slowly."

>>5767256
But just saying the size of the NEXT is not a deep history development

it just random info
it's like saying
"your Forearm is the same size as your foot"

>>5767326
No, but it helps us compare it to something that it 60x the size.

White Glint as the standard, is 1/8th the size of an Imperator Titan with the cathedral top

>>5767348
Please, don't let this become "AC vs Titan, who would win".

>>5767369
AC, easily, we debated this 2 weeks ago, suprisingly

>>5767389
I miss all the good threads.

>>5767389

how AC would win ?
and why ?

>>5767403
You didn't miss anything important, fanwank arguments are always bad

>>5767433
I'll reeducate anon before I go to work in 7 minutes.

an Imperator's power core is in it's stomach right below the head. Cathedral type is usually 55-80 meters. Without it, they stand around 50 meters, Dies Irae being only 43 meters, and without all the tiny cannons found normally on Imperator.

Imperator's armor according to Forgeworld rules is weakest in it's rear, and Lascannon rounds can easily take void shields. Also, melee combat with Titans or other related Mechs, Void shields do not block damage.

Simply put, boost to the sides and rear, or get into the stomach for melee combat. A next outclasses Gundams and sometimes an older Orbital Frame model in speed. Arms forts like Spirit of Motherwill outclass Imperators and Warmongers in long range firepower, except for the instant kill Void missile.

>>5767433
My first thought would be the fact that the Titan couldn't fucking HIT the AC. They've got a number of big-huge-fuck-off-massive guns, but no real quick targeting guns, which is exactly what is needed for taking out ACs.

Though I'm not sure how the AC would get through the Void shields, unless they're projected a certain distance from the Titan itself, in which case the AC could just walk through them and shoot out the Titan's head.

Night guys, maby if I'm lucky I'll see this topic again in 8 hrs when i get home

>>5767545
don't be so sure

>>5767545
don't worry
we will star a new one

>>5767545
>Night guys, maby if I'm lucky I'll see this topic again in 8 hrs when i get home

It's been archived at suptg

>>5765986
>>5765896
Put these two pilots together and they'd make a great team. Dunno if they'd get along but they were both determined, honorable warrior types to the bitter end. Oblige more so. This guy gets about one line in the game and he just comes off as a quiet, uncompromising badass. Compare to Wynne yelling at everyone all the time.

Also, can I call ya Windy?