>>5863733

Sounds like a Level 1 Failure with max ranks in Burden To Party.

Refluff shit.

Instead of casting Cure Light Wounds, he's applying painkiller and combat medicine.

Fucking </thread>

>>5863754
Not every game of D&D is COMBAT COMBAT COMBAT REST FOR SPELLS COMBAT COMBAT you know.

>>5863733
that is an awesome concept and i am going to steal it

Scott if this is you I swear to god...

>>5863763
And yet there is not a single game-type where someone who can contribute nothing to the party is welcome.

RP-Wise:
"So, wait, how do you make money when there are Clerics everywhere?" "Uhhhh..."

Mechanics-Wise:
"We bought/made a Wand of CLW." "Uhhhh..."

>>5863790
So what happens when the cleric runs out of spells? We enter a no magic zone? When someone died of mysterious reasons and the cause needs to be figured out? When a magic resistant disease strikes the party? This character isn't just "lolz I heal without spellz"

>>5863790
What happens if there's an anti-magic field? Also, people will always be interested in easier ways to kill monsters.

Requiring him to not use any magic pretty much kills his viability right there, unless the whole campaign is meant to be low/no magic.

>>5863790

You don't know anything about role playing, go back to Halo.

OP: Expert sounds like the closest thing you're looking for, but rogue would be more appropriate if you really plan on making a viable character, and there are probably some alternate class features in place of sneak attack/lockpicking/trap shit if you don't like the thief aspect.

>>5863834
He's not anti-magic. He'll gladly wear magic armor, he just doesn't like humanity to depend on it. He wants humanity to be able to defeat death through human ingenuity, not a god given spell.

>>5863825
>>5863829

If there is an anti-magic field, then your character has his five minutes of gloriously weak nonmagical healing while the rest of the party tries to get out of the anti-magic field.

Rogue, that you deal with your GM to have Heal as a Class skill. So you won't suck TOO much, and yet still do what you want to do.

Do it rogue. Backstabbing is a good 'finding the weak point' maybe turn assassin later.

>>5863825
>Cleric runs out of spells
The Heal skill doesn't restore hit points. There are like, no ways to restore hit points out of Cure ____ Wounds.
>We enter a no magic zone.
See above.
>When someone died of mysterious reasons and the cause needs to be figured out?
Knowledge skills, magic. Heal is used to treat diseases.
>When a magic resistant disease strikes the party?
Heal skill.

>>5863825
>So what happens when the cleric runs out of spells?
Because non-magical healing requires absolutely no supplies at all.
>We enter a no magic zone?
You get splattered because the Fighter is utterly useless at killing.
>When someone died of mysterious reasons and the cause needs to be figured out?
You think you can do that better than the Cleric who can literally ask the God of Disease?
>When a magic resistant disease strikes the party?
What kind of disease that can tell magic to fuck off goes "LOL OH SHIT" to penicillin and peroxide?

>>5863885
>The Heal skill doesn't restore hit points. There are like, no ways to restore hit points out of Cure ____ Wounds.
Which is why I was wondering if there were any homebrew classes which did utilize the heal skill to, well, heal.

Bard with modified fluff and slightly modified crunch.

/thread

>Please don't turn this into a version debate, this character would not work with 4E

So you want a nonmagical character who uses nonmagical healing and skills to triumph and you think 4E is WRONG for that? Uhh, okay.

>>5863920
Then please explain why 4E would be right for it, sir.

>>5863905
Why do you obsess over a character that has truly magical powers such as instant HP restoration that aren't considered magic?

Also, psionics. They're super not magic.

>>5863936
It's just a character concept, not an obsession

D&D is flat-out terrible for this. Try Riddle of Steel or something, I don't even know.

>>5863925
Fuck tons of non-magic based healings, and a nonmagical equivalent to rituals, are already part of the game.

Alternately, artificers. Yeah, they use spells, but its all themed as enhancements you're applying to people, their healing is medicinal, their summons are clockwork automatons, etc.

What about these?
http://hastur.net/abbe/DnD/class/academic.html
http://hastur.net/abbe/DnD/class/prestige/surgeon.html

>>5863915

This. His bardic songs could be along the lines of 'Aim for this one's arms, they are particular weak there.' and other shouted tactical advice during combat.

My suggestion? Go psion. Take the 2nd edition principle of psychic powers as 'devotions and sciences' as the operating principle. He doesn't use powers, he uses mental sciences and principles of universal knowledge as the basis of his abilities. He isn't using empathic transfer to remove your damage, he's using the principle of sympathy between living beings and karmic understanding to transfer your damage to himself so that his biofeedback induced healing trance will let him repair the damage.

It's what psinics should have been portrrayed as.

>The Heal skill doesn't restore hit points. There are like, no ways to restore hit points out of Cure ____ Wounds

Bitches don't know about the Healing Hands skill trick.
Which admittedly only heals 1d6 damage, but still.
Also, long term care.

>>5863925
The Heal skill in 4e actually heals damage, and Rituals can be done by even 'non magical' classes. If you're careful about selection, you could fluff it as 'Oh, he uses science to heal them.'

>>5863984
Oh, that's pretty cool, I did not know that. Forgive my ignorance of that part of 4E.

>>5863993
>>5863984
This. Fluff your Cure Disease ritual as medicine with expensive components.

>>5863984

Or take Alchemy (Adventurer's Vault) instead of Ritual Casting.

>>5864015
Take both. A number of rituals are refluffable.

>>5863733
Consider this stolen. Thankfully it is a low level magic setting involving pirates of the Caribbean. I'm thinking something like Stephen Maturin. I thank OP and wish him well in his quest to work this character out. I humbly offer this bump in the hopes that helps your quest.

>>5864005

Raise Dead requires some expensive equipment.

See if your GM, will let you sub out some of the rogue-ier skills for profession surgery/doctor and knowledge science/medicine/mathematics. Then go for Invisible blade prestige, Complete Warrior I believe.

The real problem is the justification for instant healing in D and D is magic healing. Honestly this does not seem like a good party character but rather a really interesting NPC that travels with the party from time to time.

Everyone understands that D and D is not just combatcombatcombat hack and slash bullshit. And if you don't get that, then get the fuck of /tg/. But this character has some significant flaws in that he/she is a small blade/dexterous combat character but that doesn't fit with scholar characters in D and D setting. UNLESS you're making them an ascetic character, in which case I would suggest going monk, but seeing as the monk class has no place in D and D anyways I'm hesitant to suggest you go that route.

My suggestion? Rework the character. Interesting NPC, boring PC. What do you do in the party as far as roleplaying aside from alienating EVERYONE you run into? Remember magic scares peasents, but just think about how crazy you'll seem when you start talking about tiny invisible things that make you sick if you don't wash. I'm just going on information you put there.

Also never use 3rd party. It's for suckers. And it's almost ALWAYS overpowered.

tl;dr

consult your DM about swapping out some rogue skills for doctor skills. Still think it's a bad idea.

ITT: 4rries hijack a 3aboo thread.

>>5864031
Heh, glad to see that I've inspired others. Have fun in your campaign!

You say no version war, but version doesn't matter.

D&D is the *wrong* game for this.

Look into FUDGE, or fuck, I dunno, anything else.

If you really want this guy to work, speak with your DM about creating a new class that borrows the stat ups from a regular class, such the rogue, but give the class a some powers related to his profession ranks, or indeed you could create a prestige class for this purpose. The trick to making your character work is giving him magic like abilities as he levels, like the monk, without him actually dabbling in magic itself.

This is, I think, the only way your character will work the way you want it. It will take a lot of work to hammer out all the details, and then to clear them with your DM, but the work will be well worth it.

>>5864043
>seeing as the monk class has no place in D and D anyways
THE MONK CLASS HAS BEEN IN SINCE 1E, YOU FUCKING RETARD. KILL YOURSELF IN THE DICK.

This could only work properly in a low-magic setting.

This character sounds to me to be rather similar to Dr. Van Richten, of Ravenloft fame. He studied monsters and their weaknesses, and was, as his title states, a Doctor.

There was no indication he was a mage of any kind.

This character concept probably works best in a setting where clerical magic is weak anyway.

As I recall, Dr. Van Richten was actually a rogue by class, but didn't play like one.

My personal opinion is that you should be a rogue and have a heavy focus on the Craft: alchemy skill. Remember, in the Dark Ages alchemy was basically the precursor to chemistry, and the character could quite reasonably consider it a science instead of magic.

>>5863993
PHB3's got the nonmagical equivalent to rituals, and introduces "Skill Powers" which let you swap out class-based powers you don't think are fitting to your character concept.

For a class, there's of course rogue: Van Richten from Ravenloft was a very similar concept and he was a lawful good rogue.

But actually I think Resourceful or Tactical Warlord could be quite good; the Tactical Warlord is an intelligence-based martial character, and his best at-will simply gives an ally a bonus attack. So you don't have to justify him being a badass in combat, you can just wield a dagger, scalpel, or whatever, and wear leather armor, and be plenty effective, be loaded with nonmagical healing, use your intellect to benefit your friends, and not have to be a combat monster to survive, since instead of attacking, warlords can just give the beefiest ally an extra attack.

>>5864083
I was planning on heavily focusing on Alchemy along with Heal. Thanks for the info on Dr. Van Richter, I'll research him.

>>5863757
This.

>>5864076

Medieval Eastern culture class in Medieval Western world? You eat a dick sir.

Our Monks our of the benedictine sort. Not the kung-fu sort.

>>5864043

>seeing as the monk class has no place in D and D anyways

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Monks are fucking bamf and I would challenge anyone who disagrees, especially considering how overpowered the cleric/wizard/sorcerer classes are, they are the best choice otherwise.

>>5864114
Much as I like Guild Wars' monks, this is not Guild Wars.

>>5864083
Sorry, Craft: Alchemy requires you to use magic.

>>5864101
He could also use one of them chainsaw swords in AV2 instead of a dagger, since doctors do use saws to chop off limbs or chop through bone and such.

>>5863757
Medieval combat medicine didn't exist. HENCE THE NEED FOR MAGIC.

Do you remember plague doctors? THAT WAS THE PINNACLE OF DARK AGES MEDICINE.

>>5864114
When I first started playing dnd, I was completely confused by the monk classes. I had the benedictine monks in mind, what were they doing running around in bullet time catching arrows and punching people in the face?

>>5864127

Haha, you are so incredibly wrong.

So you want to make Yawgmoth before he was the embodiement of Black Mana.

Huh, now I want to as well.

Make him a Fighter actually, Fighter and Rogue multiclass. Except instead of getting all combat directly related sthings like jump or climb or whatever, user the skill points towards the Healing.

You're a battle-medic, not a pansy medic. You carve up monsters then make sure that your buddy isn't carved up.

Make him a sociopath, he'll save his party, but do it a bit slowly so he knows what happends and how the muscles work and whatnot.

Consider a prestige class to go along with this.

>>5864144
Plague Doctors weren't medieval doctors, they were people who went around poking sick people going, "Yup, they're sick." There was actual surgery and such in the dark ages.

>>5864127
Monks are NOT overpowered? I'm a martial class that doesn't use weapons or armor yet I have the highest AC and can do decent damage and hit frequently. OH SHIT I JUST MULTICLASSED WITH A SORC. I AM THE BEST CHARACTER EVER.

Fuck you and you're bullshit nonsense. Go get a sword and a breastplate like the rest of the melee characters. Just because a class is good does not mean it makes SENSE.

>>5864167
The sociopath part was planned, but he's a smart one; he does not let his party members know that he is experimenting on them. They're used to magic, not science, how would they know the difference anyhow?

Now, let's see what happens when I replace this ligament with a tendon...

>>5864168
Yes but the surgery consisted of putting a hole in a dudes head to relieve pressure.

>>5864171

>Monks are NOT overpowered?

No.

They're not.

>>5864146
The 2E monk has been the only edition that had an actually decent monk at all. They were equivalent of clerics and druids; just like clerics could wear armor and wield blunt weapons, and druids could turn into animals and bite you, monks got grandmastery in martial arts and AC boosts (normally, only single classed fighters could become grandmasters), AND got a wide variety of spells unique to them.

>>5864127
>>5864171

Does the term Multiple Ability Dependant mean anything to you?

>>5864200
http://medievalhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/surgery_in_medieval_times
Because people would constantly go back to surgeons if every single time someone went to a surgeon they died, amirite?

Jesus christ. This character is doomed. Your party members will hate him. They will only wish him dead as he will be mediocre at just about everything and that's it.

Play this character in an RP heavy game like Vampire. don't you fucking LARP vampire, but if you roll dice like a real person then you could have fun with it. I played in a Jack the campaign and we had a doctor who was very similar to what you are proposing.

Anyways if you want to do this, I'm gonna say that you can't get away with any alignment other than chaotic evil, maybe neutral evil.

>>5864171
>Monks are NOT overpowered? I'm a martial class that doesn't use weapons or armor yet I have the highest AC and can do decent damage and hit frequently.

Spoilers: magic weapons and armor > your benefits alone

Also no you can't, since you'll have shitty AC or shitty damage.

>>5864114
>medieval western
Because D&D is an exact copy of medieval europe! OH WAIT.

Even Forgotten Realms had Kara-Tur.

>>5864171
You're a fucking idiot. The Monk is one of the WEAKEST 3.5 classes. It's no good at ANYTHING. Multiclassing Monk and Sorcerer makes you doubly terrible at everything. Straight Sorcerer laughs at you.

>>5864053
Thanks! While D&D may not be the best system for this character I could care less. I'm still going to play the hell out of it.

You asked /tg/ to do what they do best and a large portion of them are failing you. Instead they squabble over whether it would work or not. How about all the people who don't think that it will work go to another thread and everyone else not Wallowing in their own cleverness, buckle down and help this anon find the best option for this idea.

pic posted just to grab attention.>>5864303
>>5864264
>>5864241
>>5864231
>>5864220

ITT: surgeons cause people to argue with each other about karate dudes

Factotum maybe?

Alright, take Expert, Scout, or Ninja. This will help you hurt (living creatures) where it hurts. and a butt load of skills.
Poison making feat will help you a bit but its a pan in the ass to keep up on the proses and to keep track of how many days the poison lasts before you have to try and renew or just create a new batch.

Being a gnome couldn't hurt. or you could be a dwarf and *WILL* magical diseases away by pure stubbornness.

Jack of all trains feat allowing you to use any skill even trained. Able learned makes all cross class skills cost half.

Create a feat that increases the DC of any poisons by +1 with each consecutive use. (throw 2 poison darts with poison, first darts poison DC is normal, second dart is +1 to DC.)
Hidden blade class, Master Thrower class.
Have fun.
maybe a few classes in occult slayer. (make sure your DM uses enemies that actually USE magic in battle otherwise it will be useless.

have fun

Easy solution: choose any class that doesn't get divine magic, ask the DM to give you Heal as a class skill if it doesn't have it, roleplay as normal.

A character's class does not have to be the centre of his roleplay. Just be some other class, who spends his time doing [insert your roleplay stuff here].

>>5864362
What is a factotum?

>>5864303

Monk's Belt: AC and unarmed damage of a monk five levels higher and gain an additional stunning fist.

>>5864241

Paladin: Good Wis, Cha, Str, Con. Monk: Good Dex, Wis, Con.

>>5864220
Vow of Poverty.

>>5864367
Thanks for the helpful advice, anon

>>5864143
The Craft: Alchemy skill doesn't require magic. Magical potion crafting does.

I was going to work on a homebrew system for herbalism, incidentally. I plan on using it if I either run Iron Heroes or Fantasy Craft. If this thread is still here, I can post it and you can change your character concept slightly.

Also if the DM tells you no, volunteer to give up a few feats or something.

The main reason you're getting so much flak is that you're thinking inside the box. what you want is a character who wants people to stop relying on magic. Well, say magic had some "unpleasant side effects" that you could "prove".

Do you "understand" my "meaning"?

To make an item using Craft (alchemy), you must have alchemical equipment and be a spellcaster. If you are working in a city, you can buy what you need as part of the raw materials cost to make the item, but alchemical equipment is difficult or impossible to come by in some places. Purchasing and maintaining an alchemist’s lab grants a +2 circumstance bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks because you have the perfect tools for the job, but it does not affect the cost of any items made using the skill.

>>5864408

PHB II feat: grenadier. If you go Alchemy check this out, you take poisons from monster/ things from monsters that make explosions, bottle them, and throw it into combat.

>>5864435
If you're gonna go multiclass spellcaster, you might as well go full spellcaster.

>>5864433
A simple ruling by the DM would allow a non-spellcaster to use the alchemy skill.

>>5864423
I "understand" what "you" are "saying" "anonymous"

>>5864455

see

>>5864456

EP here again, almost forgot something.
My DM had a low magic game that focused heavy on Alchemy.
one thing he did was use the blood of trolls to create a potion of cure light wounds through alchemy and awakening their supernatural ability to heal quickly on the user.

if he is really weak, make sure his con is High (I think 20), take toughness, then roll with the blow, and then Thick skinned.
he now has DR 4/-

There was something in the ild D&D books that said that some race or class gained exp by destroying magical items. Though would be a awesome roll playing click. Lottery for the magical item and destroy it in secret.

>>5864456
So you want to do magic without calling it magic or having a magical class.

>>5864478
Alchemy doesn't have to be hocus pocus, it could just be mixing reagents together to get poisons or volatile mixtures or healing powders.

>>5864476
Hah, destroying magical items. That could be another part of this character's "research."

>>5864478
He is playing a character that tries to explain everything and take care of everything with Science.
"ghost is swamp gas!"

I just saw this post, havent read replies and don't car really. I don't if i can help you with how to create it but to any who might insult it, this is GREAT, especially for RP value more than anything, & THAT is what tabletop gaming is all about. I say go for it, there is so much you could do with this character, especially base don alignment, and how the game may turn out. Start cutting into creatures your party kills and doing experiments to "see what makes them tick", great stuff ont he good/lawful some REALLY fun stuff if you start following a CN, CE path. oh the possibilites. BADASS!

>>5864374
Dugeounscape
They use their intelligence to do everything.
Kind of a jack of all trades. They do a little healing a little spellcasting, Every skill is a class skill, They have 6 plus Int mod for skills, and they use inspiration points. Whith a little tweaking this could be your class.

Alright OP. My advice is going to be...perhaps...completely out there.

Grab a copy of Iron Heroes. Convince your DM to let you play one of the classes from it. Also convince them to let you heal hit points for other players much like you could to any other character lacking reserve points.

Go with the Man-at-Arms (possibly add in some levels of Thief).

Flavor yourself however you want, choose the skill groups you like, grab a butt-ton of feats that deal with healing, finding enemy weaknesses, poisoning, *and anything else you might remotely want*, using Wild Card Feats to boost your versatility. You won't be a Cleric, or a Wizard, or a Druid. But you'll be very, very versatile, and entirely not magical.

>>5864552
Wow, that looks to be very much what I am interested in. I'll keep an eye out for that manual next time I go book shopping, thanks!

>>5864043
>this does not seem like a good party character but rather a really interesting NPC that travels with the party from time to time

This.

What does this character do in a fight? (I uhh, stab it with my scalpel for 1d4 damage. Or I use a heal check to uhh...oh, yeah, we're in combat, it's useless..)
What does this character do while investigating? (I uhh, do an autopsy. Oh, nothing is dead yet? Crap.)
What does this character do while exploring? (I look for a dead body to examine. None? I hold the torch for the wizard.)
What does this character do while Rping? (Hey, let me tell you about this one time I fixed a fellows leg using a piece of wood and two pounds of...oh, what? The Cleric did it by wiggling his fingers? Huh.)

It's a nifty character idea. It does not seem like a character that would play very well at all in a standard campaign. Perhaps you're gonna be playing him in a low-magic nitty-gritty investgation CSI type campaign - he'll kick ass just by being an Expert and having a lump of skill points.

Is expert in the DMG?

I played a dwarven battle cleric who would use healing hands and grab and drop a healing potion for them to use; DM ok'd it because you can draw your sword while walking so why not?
What I would actually suggest is this sounds much like the monk you'd see in Crouching Tiger or Once Upon a Time in China (Wong Fei Hung was a great doctor first, and a martial arts master second).
If you want, try to create a friar tuck sort of character, Poison use classes could be reversed into antitoxins, and Herbalism as a sort of alchemy (Doctor's Book of Home Remedies?)

>>5863984
allows them to use their second wind, if unconscious. same as healing hands.

>>5864722
He's someone who looks like a noncombatant who has a very, very sharp weapon and plenty of knowledge of precisely which nerve to hit.

He's a learned scholar, he doesn't have shabby charisma, knows how to research, and has as many ranks in Gather Information as possible for his level.

He can help locate monsters by offering insights into their lifestyles. It's a bad idea to search for *blah* by day, since they are nocturnal and tend to sleep in caves like the one we just passed.

What does a fighter do while rping? I like to hit stuff with stuff!
What does a rogue do while rping? I like to steal stuff and sneak around!
What does a wizard do while rping? I like to cast spells?
He has just as much RP possibility as any other character.

>>5864744
Yeah, expert is in the DMG. Medium BAB, strong Will save, and 6 skill points per level. Thaaaat's basically it.

>>5864778
I really like this idea. Like alot. Very cool OP.

I am going to recommend against expert. They're bards without bardic abilities, and that's all they are.

Take rogue, at least. Instead of calling himself a rogue, call himself a man of science, and it reflects his intimate knowledge of flesh and body in sneak attack damage, and see if you can get the DM to trade in the trapping skills for other skills. Such a man would get get very good at avoiding things such as attacks and explosive effects because, well, he's just a man, and he's learned that getting out of the way is freaking important (evasion). Trade trapfinding and trap save bonus abilities for a modified lay on hands as an extraordinary ability, perhaps. (This is actually a suggestion similar to the one they use in the DMG for crafting modified core classes).

Sherlock Holmes was a rogue-type. Disguise, lockpinking, gather information, spot, search, listen, and such.

>>5864778
>very sharp weapon and plenty of knowledge of precisely which nerve to hit
>doesn't have shabby charisma, knows how to research, and has as many ranks in

So, in other words, he's a rogue with some refluffed abilities, and a lot of skill points in knowledges, mechanically speaking.

Fighters, Rogues, and Wizards all have plenty of access to combative abilities, as well as non-combative abilities that can be useful in most situations. Your first description of your character was mostly "fuck magic, I'm making knowledge checks to advance the human race" which is mostly useless for adventuring. You distinctly said "no focus on combat or magic[al healing]".

>>5864909
Just because he doesn't focus on combat doesn't mean that he has to completely and utterly suck at it. But your description of my character is pretty spot on.

I'm leaning quite a bit more towards refluffed rogue now, unless I can get my hands on that Iron Heroes manual. Thanks so far, /tg/!

>>5864942

For what it's worth, Iron Heroes is in /rs/ at this moment in time.

>>5863733
...Dr. McNinja? Is that you?

>>5864983
It's worth at least an internet and a half, thank you.

Hey OP! I'm about to head out and I don't have time to read this entire thread, so please forgive me if I retread old ground. D&D is not a very flexible game. It has clearly (some would say "rigidly") defined classes and what you are attempting to make is rather outside its scope, at least for a PC. Having said that, if your DM would allow you to tweak things a bit, you could probably make a go of it.

I had a homebrew class called a maven, which was a rogue without sneak attacks. To compensate, he had 10 skill points per level and full access to martial weapons. (A little weak as a single class character compared to a rogue, but flexible and potentially desirable as a multi-classed character.) Something like that could be a step in the right direction at least.

Also, while experts are underpowered (having less skill points than rogues, who also get sneak attacks), you could make them more viable by increasing their skill points. Give them 10 skill points and access to any nonexclusive skill and they're still a little weak, but far more playable. Hmm... what about doing some sort of favored enemy thing to represent his study of animals? Let him choose favored enemies as a ranger and the class starts to look reasonably balanced.

>>5864880
>>5864880
>>5864880
>>5864880
>>5864880
This!

What is this Long term Healing I keep hearing about?

>>5865070
Someone tended to with a successful use of the heal skill recovers twice the hp from resting.

>>5865093
Is that in 3.5?

>>5865125
Yes.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/Heal.htm
>Providing long-term care means treating a wounded person for a day or more. If your Heal check is successful, the patient recovers hit points or ability score points (lost to ability damage) at twice the normal rate: 2 hit points per level for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 hit points per level for each full day of complete rest; 2 ability score points for a full 8 hours of rest in a day, or 4 ability score points for each full day of complete rest.

>>5865125
Yes.

>>5865159
>>5865145
thanks

Turns out it was a case of hurry up and wait, so I'm still here for a bit. I like the modified laying on of hands bit suggested here >>5864880. So, to put everything together what the following?

Expert
10 skill points per level
make up a fairly extensive list of appropriate skills (including use device, disable device, etc.)
favored enemies as a ranger
surgery feat (works like Paladin's lay on hands but based on wis and it takes 1 minute per hp healed)

>>5865010
That's an excellent plan actually. Any body have any other way to explain the knowledge of various creatures mechanically?

If you can get your DM to homebrew a class, I would suggest something along the lines of an expert with the Archivist's Dark Knowledge and the Swashbucklers Int bonus to damage (but it only applies to daggers and light blades). Thus you can make your heal checks, but also be decent in a fight and help your allies with advice on where to hit the baddies.

>>5865336
Would probably be workable if you add a nonmagical lay on hands based on Int and maybe made the damage bonus work with more weapons.

>>5865367
I agree about the damage bonus only applying to the small weapons. Specific, tiny parts of anatomy can be difficult to hit with large weapons, which is why you would want to use the more precise ones.

I was just thinking that ranger really doesn't get that many favored enemies, so your bonuses might not match with your in-game opportunities to dissect creatures. What if you only got a single +2 bonus each time (that could be used to either increase an existing bonus or to applied to a new creature, but not *both* as rangers do), but got it more often? That way you would be able to better represent the immediate effects of your in-game study of whatever monster you just killed. To maintain roughly the same amount of favored enemy bonuses, you could gain this +2 at every even-numbered level. (Hell, if you really wanted to get fancy, you could make it only +1 and give it at every single level, but only after you dissect something.)

I have but two simple questions for you, OP:
1.) At what level would you intend on playing this character from? While 1st-level would, quite frankly, not offer enough for what I am to propose, beginning at 3rd-level or higher would offer you more options on how to express your concept.
2.) Should you be using point-buy for your ability scores, how many points would you have available to distribute?

I may be able to provide you with suggestions for a such a character through a mix of factotum, swashbuckler, and cloistered cleric. This would enable you to function purely off your Intelligence bonus and your knowledge skills without having to rely upon supernatural capabilities. However, I require more details on the circumstances of character creation, hence the two above questions.

>>5865479
The starting level hasn't been decided yet, although my attributes have.
STR 11
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 18
WIS 16
CHA 14

Everyone's just thrown off because of the typical role of the rogue in a party. The rogue has the most skill points per level, making them the best at doing things that often aren't in combat. This person is obviously intelligent, as he thinks there must be a way to understand how to defeat things logically. Hence, more skills and high INT. This character would also need to be able to meticulously cut and dissect many things, requiring him to be good with his hands. Dexterity is defined as "skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility." Hence, this should be a high INT, high DEX character. The feat "Weapon Finesse" allows you to use your DEX bonus instead of STR bonus on attack rolls, and a high DEX will also allow you to dodge attacks well. You can apply the Weapon Finesse feat to knives and daggers, as well as rapiers, whips and spiked chains. Sneak attack is the ability to strike an opponent's vital points effectively. At 13th level, the rogue gets a special ability, one of them can be Crippling Strike, reducing their opponent's STR by 2 with every sneak attack. Being able to find and detect traps requires a smarter mind that sees the world in a different way than most.

The only difference between your character and the rogue is that your character is putting skill points into Heal. Rogues simply suffer from a stereotype that makes them out to be thieves. Do it as a rogue, it'll work.

>>5865549

You may want to go for 16 Dexterity and 14 Wisdom instead of 14 Dexterity and 16 Wisdom. Now, before I begin, I want you to pick from two out of the seven following benefits:
• Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, granting you a +1 bonus to attack rolls with your scalpel.
• Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, bestowing a +4 bonus to iniative checks.
• Great Fortitude as a bonus feat, for a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves.
• Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat, for a +2 bonus on Reflex saves.
• Immunity to fear effects, allowing you to invoke the trope of "The man of medicine and science stands unphased, thanks to cold logic and reason, in the face of adversity and terror."
• A +10' bonus to your land speed.
• Thrice per day, for one minute, you can move your speed as a swift action.

All of these are extraordinary abilities. Pick whichever you believe suits your character best.

>Everyone's just thrown off because of the typical role of the rogue in a party.
The rogue puts a lot of mojo into sneak attacks. Yes the rogue is the most versatile character, and of the basic class obviously fits the best, but it also brings some unwanted baggage.

>>5865696
The Immunity to Fear is definitely in character. The initiative would work, too.

I had 16 in wisdom because of the heal skill, but I was already thinking about switching it with dexterity; it shall be switched now.

>>5863733

Stop playing D&D. It's been said, but it bears saying again. D&D is terrible for this or any original or flavourful character.

Your surgeon would fit perfectly in the right game of Fantasycraft, GURPS or WFRP.

>>5865728

>>• Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, granting you a +1 bonus to attack rolls with your scalpel.

Reasonable.

>>• Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, bestowing a +4 bonus to iniative checks.

A high DEX takes care of this pretty well, also, why would someone who gets engrossed in their study have quick reflexes?

>>• Great Fortitude as a bonus feat, for a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves.

This is actually reasonable. Stick your nose in corpses and bathe in blood, and you won't mind gross sights or bad smells as much as the next guy.

>>• Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat, for a +2 bonus on Reflex saves.

A high DEX takes care of this pretty well, also, why would someone who gets engrossed in their study have quick reflexes?

>>• Immunity to fear effects, allowing you to invoke the trope of "The man of medicine and science stands unphased, thanks to cold logic and reason, in the face of adversity and terror."

Yes, the seasoned veterans of war will be shitting their pants at the sight of a Tarrasque while the scientist will calmly state "oh yes, that will certainly kill us all and there's nothing we can do about it. I'm fine with it and hopefully I can view its innards before my inevitable demise". Give this dumb fuck the lowest WIS in existence.

>>• A +10' bonus to your land speed.
What? How many scientists that you know run the 100 meter dash?

>>5865746
Such as?

>>5865746
I'm curious as well.

>>5865833
Well, about the 100 meter dash comment, medieval style physicians did not have access to anesthesia and so sometimes had to restrain struggling patients, so they wouldn't exactly be in bad shape. Also, there's the trope of the medic sprinting across the battlefield to try to save his a dying comrade.

>>5865955
makes sense to me.

>>5865728
I'm very curious about what you're going to come up with too, but I've already finished all of my college work for the day so I was bored enough to try to turn the advice and such in this thread into a working class.

Feel free to shoot as much flak as it as you want, /tg/.

Adventuring Physician

Medium BAB
Strong save is Will
Simple weapon and light armor proficiency
6 Skill points per level

Class Skills: Alchemy, Bluff, Concentration, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge, Listen, Profession, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival, Use Rope

Study
can dissect a dead creature, allowing the int bonus, anatomical knowledge, and sneak attack against that creature
applicable to plants as well as any sneak attackble creature, but not constructs, undead, oozes, or other monsters with no discernable anatomy
if a Profession (Doctor) check is passed, can write notes about the creature to study in the future
studying a creature lasts 1/2 level x week
vivisecting a creature, while alive, provides a +2 bonus similar to the ranger's favored enemy bonus for the length of time the studying remains viable
even notes made while vivisecting don't provide the vivisection bonus
the notes may be restudied 1d10 times before they get too worn out

- To Be Continued-

>>5866035
-Continued-

Anatomical Knowledge
as Archivist's Dark Knowledge with some differences

Int Bonus to Damage for small blades
Only if the creature being attacked has been studied

Sneak Attack
must have studied the creature
requires a relevent knowledge check to be able to deal damage
doesn't know if check passed or failed until attack is made and if it failed, a check may be done again after studying the creature again

Surgery
heal hp equal to level x int bonus
flat footed during surgery
takes one minute per hp healed
can do surgery on someone once per day and can do con bonus surgeries per day
When doing surgery, make a additional heal check vs dc (hp healed) to heal extra?
armor check penalty applies to heal rolls
-2 penalty to heal rolls if character did not clean themselves satisfactorily before each surgery
two checks have to be made, heal and concentration; if either fail, then the patient gets a disease, and if both fail, then the patient also gets dealt damage equal to how much he would have been healed

-Fin-

>>5865746
Nah, the cleric is the most versatile. He can wear plate, he can fight, he can detect traps, he can heal, he has some blasting spells, etc.

Drat. I was going to suggest combat medic from heroes of battle, but realized that class uses spells.

>>5866041
>>5866035
This is outstanding. Man. I think I'm in love with this class. I'm just concerned with what abilities the class would give as you leveled up. Maybe some talents from the Pathfinder rogue would be applicable.

>>5866164
A couple of those talents look like they would fit the concept, I'll add them...

Don't forget the Assassin's Death Attack feature.

>>5866251

Sweet. Don't forget the Advanced talents as well.

I've added these abilities gained at later levels:

Health Booster - level 4
an item created by the alchemy skill
temporary inceases health for one minute for every four levels
hp increase is equal to level
for the rest of the day, +1 bonus for fort saves for every four levels

Poison Use - level 7?
can use poisons without risk of poisoning themself

Anatomical Strikes
Chose one at level 5, 10, 15, and 20
Artery Strike - 1 more damage each round for rounds equal each die of the sneak attack unless healed
Skillful Strike - Weapon Focus (Scalpel)
Intestinal Strike - target nauseated for rounds equal to sneak attack (so for 4d6 sneak attack, 4d6 rounds)
Nerve Strike - fort save or paralyzed for 2d6 rounds
Tendon Strike - enemy struck loses use of one limb until healed
Fort save DC is 10 + Physician level + INT

Any criticism?

>>5866164
>>5866375
I modified the talents I thought appropriate into the health booster and anatomical strikes abilities

>>5866375
Hey, I remember that knife thread. In fact, that was the thread which gave me the inspiration for this character.

>>5866313
Death Attack seems to be mostly covered by the anatomical strikes, although maybe I'll add a bonus for observation if you guys feel it is appropriate...

>>5866398
Just make it a high level or mid-high level ability - 15th or 20th level, for rewarding sticking with the class.

>>5866383
This is amazing. I'm impressed.
The Death Attack should be high level if it is included.Nice idea with the health booster to even out against clerics.Although he may need a little more umph in later levels regarding healing, but that could just be me.
Wait so he has to keep restudying the or he will lose his bonuses? So he forgets them essentially?

This class is perfect for my friends pirates game. Low magic

>>5866035

Your character is a human starting off with 11 Strength, 16 Dexterity, 13 Constitution, 18 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, and 14 Charisma. Your first level should be in the factotum class from Dungeonscape. From here, there are several things to be noted and followed:
• This class receives 6 + Intelligence modifier skill points per level. Keeping in mind the human skill bonus, you thus receive 44 skill points at 1st-level. Place 4 ranks in Heal and all ten knowledge skills.
• Since you receive proficiency in all martial weapons, declare your scalpel to be a kukri. The 1d4 base damage fits its tiny blade, whereas the 18-20 threat range represents its potential for devastating draw cuts to vital spots.
• Select Font of Inspiration (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) twice as your 1st-level feat and your human bonus feat. This grants you a total of 5 inspiration points per encounter. At this level, you can spend 1 inspiration point before making an attack roll, damage roll, or saving throw to gain a competence bonus on the roll equal to your Intelligence modifier. Additionally, for each skill that you have ranks in, once per day (per skill), you can spend 1 inspiration point to gain a bonus on a check using that skill equal to your factotum level.
• At this point, you are only barely passable at combat (but you intended for that anyway), and your medical capabilities are limited to simply providing long-term care for your allies.

[Continued in the next post.]

>>5866490
It's hard to remember everything about a creature, so yes, he does forget enough that he loses the bonus. That's what the notes are there for, though.

Is this a good modification of the death attack/observation ability?

Keen Observation - level 11, 14, 17
at level 11, observing a creature for three rounds while doing only light actions gives a +2 bonus to the to hit, damage, and knowledge roll of the first attack made upon the target in the three rounds after observation has been made
the bonus goes up to +4 at level 14, then +6 at level 17

Also, a version of crafting non-magical cure potions is currently being brainstormed

>>5866398
>>5866398
Now you see why I liked this thread. I started that one in the hopes of making a good knife fighter. But someone else chose Swordsage so i decided to save it for another campaign. I'm glad you posted this thread because this is going to be an interesting class to play.

Oh and I do like the idea of the observation bonus.

SOMEONE ARCHIVE THE SHIT OUT OF THIS DAMMIT

Additions to Health Booster:
the physician may have one Health Booster available for every +1 fort save bonus (so he may have five in reserve at level 20)
bonuses stack, but if multiple boosters are in effect, the subsequent ones cause 1/2 level damage after the temporary hp has been removed
usable by anybody

And two more healing related abilities:

Concoction - level 9
the physician can use alchemy to create one cure potion per day, to a maximum of physician level concoctions
the effectiveness of the cure potion made is equal to the best cure spell castable by a cleric of the equivalent level, with a maximum roll
the hp is quarter healed instantly, quarter healed in a minute, quarter healed in ten minutes, and quarter healed in an hour, after imbibing the concoction

Panacea - level 18, 19, 20
the physician can use alchemy to create one heal potion per week, one maximum at level 18, two at level 19, and three at level 20
the health is healed at the same rate as a Concoction

This getting overpowered yet? Hehe

>>5866568
Wow, someone calling for this thread to be archived? That's quite the honor.

I may go ahead and do an "official" write up, including fluff, of this class.

Oh, what should the health dice be? d6? d8?

Archived in suptg.

>>5866629

Well, if you would like me to continue with my proposal of how to handle this concept through existing classes, do say so. I am having difficulty locating reliable methods of non-magical, non-spell-like, non-supernatural healing even through the vast sea of crunch that is 3.5, and you would honestly fare better using this homebrew class of yours.

>>5864043

>But this character has some significant flaws in that he/she is a small blade/dexterous combat character but that doesn't fit with scholar characters in D and D setting.

Bitches don't know bout my swordfightan and spyin.

Just make him a skillmonkey rogue. Give him diplomacy/bluff/knowledge type skills instead of find traps/move silently, maybe.

Background? He's the son of minor nobility or wealthy gentry, so he's been taught to use a duelling blade. But he becomes fascinated with the idea of understanding magical beasts and such, through mundane means, so he becomes more of a scholar than a dilettante or fop. He'll wear sensible leathers, carry a light blade to protect himself, but he'll go around cutting up the monsters after combat. Concentrate on the idea of him as a scholar or naturalist, rather than some sort of combat healing guy.

You could re-fluff all kinds of assassin/rogue/ranger type PrC's into a "I've studied lots of monsters and I know how to kill them" type character.

>>5866682
I must hank you for the effort you gave, even if I did just kinda power on past it with my homebrew class. I feel a little bad about that, heh.

Still, thanks.

>>5866528

yes...yes it is.
>>5866612
Goddamn son. This is fucking brilliant. I couldn't help but grin when i read that concoction is as powerful as the equivalent Cleric spell. The health boost is good as well. I think you have healing pretty much covered for him. I don't think he is overpowered at all. I think we are just balancing his ass out.
Maybe d* just so he can stand up in melee just as good as clerics.

>>5866735
I was thinking d^, but your reason for d* is perfectly solid

>>5866731

Well, I might as well continue.

Second level. This is where you take a level in cloistered cleric (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloisteredCleric). Remember that you can be a cleric devoted to certain beliefs rather than one serving a deity, so let us stretch this and say that you are simply a man of much integrity who is devoted to his ideals. From here:
• You receive another 6 + Intelligence modifier skill points. Add 1 more skill rank to Heal and all 10 knowledge skills.
• Pick the Dream domain as your first domain. This grants you immunity to fear effects as an extraordinary ability. Fluff this as you wish, be it the cold reaffirmation of logic and reason or your goals and dreams preventing you from falling to irrational panic.
• Select the Healing domain as your second domain. Give it up for the Healing Devotion feat from Complete Champion. Basically, you can grant yourself or allies fast healing by giving up turning attempts. The only thing preventing this from being fluffed as surgery is the fact that it would be a Charisma-based spell-like ability.
• You are granted the Knowledge domain as a bonus domain. Forgo that and receive the Knowledge Devotion feat from Complete Champion instead. Whenever you face an enemy, you can roll a Knowledge skill appropriate to that enemy. A result of 15 or below grants you a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against that enemy, 16-25 a +2 bonus, 26-30 a +3 bonus, 31-35 a +4 bonus, and 36 or higher a +5 bonus. This represents a practical application of your anatomical knowledge.
• You have two options for what to do with your handful of 0-level and 1st-level spells: (A) ignore them, or (B) fluff them as first-aid. This all depends on how far you are willing to refluff.

>>5866629
Oh I had another question. What do you think he would need in the way dealing with DR or those pesky spellcasters. For instance the Dispelling attack talent. With his general knowledge of human biology, maybe he figured out a way to stop them from channeling their magic. The Dr however...I've no idea. Also Starting gold as an after thought.

>>5866783

Also, by 2nd-level, you should be able to afford a Feycraft weapon from the Dungeon Master's Guide II. This is a nonmagical weapon upgrade which should reduce the base damage of your kukri/scalpel to 1d3, but in exchange, you receive free Weapon Finesse with it.

>>5866792
For Dr or spellcasters, well, he's just as dependent on items as a fighter is. The anti-magic thing was my character concept, not part of the class, so there's nothing limiting the class from using magical items.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111692

Not great, but a start. Pic unrelated.

>>5863763

Yeah but in real life you don't get to say that "Alternative" medicine is as good as "Mainstream" because that's a crock.

>>5863867

Then he's a wizard who transcribed Divine Spells into his spellbook - it's in the rules.

>>5864320

No that isn't called failure - that's called pointing out the inherent retardation of the OP to think that you can't just refluff things and that Magic is how every single character rises above the rest.
There are some very good houserules which give non-magic a decent shot, but you aren't going to get as good efficacy ever with mundane healing and they rightly don't try beyond giving GP costs and noncombat timescales to emulate spells.

Look, with Magic you don't have to crack someones ribs open to heal them. Anybody who seriously says that it's better to do so in DnD land should be rightly considered a dangerous sadistic madman. Anyone here who is a doctor (hah!) who wouldn't give up all their skill to be a level 10 Cleric IRL is a monster.

>>5866612

>over-powered?

You are joking right? A level 6 spell potion at level 18 is as far from overpowered as a Monk/Sorcerer played by a pyro.

The Rogue is a viable level 20 character because of Sneak Attack, Flask Touch Attacks, a Ring of Blinking and UMD - in other words playing intelligently.
Your idea cannot compete at any level.
Again and again, people have given solutions that work - but you want a special snowflake that's unique and terrible.

/tg/ may get things done - but sometimes it's really fucking dumb things.

>>5866783
>>5866807

From here, continue taking factotum levels, and at every level in which you would receive a feat, select Font of Inspiration. This grants you more inspiration points, thereby allowing you to add your Intelligence bonus to more attack rolls and damage rolls. You do receive a few spell-like abilities, but you would rather save your inspiration points for skill checks and attacks instead. At Factotum 3, you also happen to receive your Intelligence bonus as a bonus on all Strength- and Dexterity-based ability checks and skill checks, including initiative checks, thus broadening the application of your scholarly knowledge.

You essentially end up as a highly knowledgeable scholar who can dispatch a foe with satisfactory efficiency through sheer anatomical knowledge, though your healing capabilities still unfortunately remain spell-like. At the very least, the level of cloistered cleric allows you to begin taking dots in Craft (alchemy), but even then, there is naught in the way of alchemical items that provide healing, according to my indices of equipment across the various sourcebooks and Dragon Magazine. D&D 3.5 does not support magical healing very well.

>>5866856
Alright, I lol'd at "played by a pyro"

>>5866908

>D&D 3.5 does not support magical healing very well.
Non-magical healing. My mistake.

>>5866908
Thanks, what you did was full of effort and I shall remember it.

+5 internets.

>>5866778
lol
>>5866832
your right. i just thought that anyone who takes this class is obviously looking for a less magical route. something that switches the norm a bit. A man who finds sanctuary in the logic and facts, and wishes to spread it's wonders and explore the world with a very different outlook than any other class.A class that wants to explore, investigate, study, poke and prod every mystery they come across.
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
Arthur C. Clarke and Terry Prachett

>>5866966
Well, that, and I can't really think of a way to tackle dr or spellcasters either, other than doing an anatomical strike which prevents them from spellcasting, such as nauseating them, paralyzing them, or preventing them from using their spell casting arm.

>>5866856
Have you even read this thread? We just finished this class for the most part and damn does it look nice. It's a class for people who want to not go the route of magic.

>>5866856
So, would you mind assisting us in making this class better?

Also note that, a level nine Physician will have nine non-magical concoctions which heal 41 health each., while the cleric of the equivalent level can have 3 + wis bonus heals of 4d8 +9, which can theoretically equal the 41, but good luck getting that each time.

>>5866981
Dispelling Attack:Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a -class name- with this ability are affected by a targeted Dispel Magic, targeting the lowest level spell active on the target.

They require a previous anatomical strike perhaps? Maybe they get a concentration check to ignore it if it targets higher spells. Maybe something in there would help.

>>5867054
Supernatural Disturbance - 6, 12, 18
the physician can use alchemy to create a special lotion each day which, when applied to a spellcaster through a touch attack, forces them to make a concentration check at a DC + physician level each round for 1d6 rounds
he may have one lotion packet for every six levels
at level 12, the lotion also dispells one spell each round on the target, the lowest level spell first
at level 18, the duration increases to 2d6

>>5867010

>It's a class for people who want to not go the route of magic.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the class really does seem to use magic under a different guise, what with the healing potions and magic-dispelling strikes. Instead of homebrewing an entirely new class just to offer a nonmagical option, why not simply take an existing combination of classes and declare all of the abilities you would receive from it as extraordinary abilities, balancing out the fact that they would function inside an Antimagic Field (something which you are not bound to come across very often) by the fact that such a multiclass permutation is forgoing power and versatility for the sake of character concept?

>>5867108
I don't really care about magic vs non-magic at this point, I just like the whole "cutting up corpses to learn how to kill more of these things" angle.

>>5867108
I shall repeat myself.
"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
nuff said.

I'm writing fluff and stuff for this class now...

Adventuring Physician

Some people leave their homes and delve into the dangerous for fun. Some do it for honor, for profit, or because they have to. And some do it for knowledge. The Adventuring Physician knows that he could learn immense ammounts of information from not only the various people who tread life's most dangerous path, but also from the foes they face. He aims to meet those foes, and to get to learn them in ways much more intimate than some people even dream of. While the Wizard may seek knowledge of the lost and arcane, and the Psion may seek to learn all he can of the mind, the Physician turns his scalpel to the mundane, opening weird and wondrous creatures, both to learn how to defeat them better, but also how to survive better, how to sew up his friensd better.

Role: Physicians resemble Clerics in healing abilities, Wizards in knowledge, and Rogues in sheer jack-of-all-tradeness, but one of their greatest strengths is that they do not depend on magic while at the same time they are able to heal their friends wounds while simultaneously preparing them for the coming war.

Alignment: Any. Some Physicians perform autopsies for purely altruistic reasons, while some perform vivisections on living patients for the sheer joy of it. Some abide by the laws and work with the authorities, while some practice their art in the middle of the night, away from prying eyes.

>>5867162

Then Factotum 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Factotum +18 would work fine for you, should your DM be one of the types to refuse homebrew and yet accept anything presented in an official rulebook. You could mix in three levels of swashbuckler from Complete Warrior, granting you Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the ability to add your Intelligence modifier as bonus damage against targets vulnerable to critical hits, provided that you are wielding a Finesse-compatible weapon. This three-level dip would, however, disrupt your skill progression, as swashbucklers receive only 4 + Intelligence modifier skill points per level, and they do not have any Knowledge skills as class skills.

Still, your healing capabilities would not be very impressive. You would be someone who uses his anatomical knowledge to dismantle rather than stitch back together.

>>5867197

Then a magic-using class shall not prove out of the question, shall it?

>>5867089
That's rather interesting. I can't help but picture the Physician getting taken down by an attack after a long battle with a spell caster as he attempted to get close. So he throws it to his fellow barbarian who just chucks it at the wizard. Ranged touch attack for the win.

I also think that it would be interesting to have them make field guide like wizards and spellbooks, that allows them to keep track of the monsters that they've encountered and dissected. Maybe that could provide an over all slower bonus gained while leveling for each subcategory of creature(ie Aberration, ooze, Outsider etc). Maybe it also helps with components for the alchemy made potions.

>>5867258
How about the field guide allows the physician to have the benefits of having studied the creature for one day?

Field Guide - level 10
allows the physician to create an item he can carry with him instead of his notes
this item allows the physician to, using a full round action, gain the benefits of Studying a creature for a single day
if five races under one type (Aberration, Outsider, etc) are in the field guide, then the physician also gains the favored enemy benefits against those races, and he gains the effects of having Studied the entire type.

>>5865549
Holy shit you got lucky with the dice.

>>5867250
I was commenting on the point you made saying that this class was just refluffing magic. I was stated that they are one in the same at some point.
>>5866612
Maybe adding their Int bonus to the healing wouldn't be so bad either. It would put them on par with clerics in healing. >>5867029

>>5867237
Good work on the fluff mate. Grade A work.

>>5867237
-Continued-

Hit Die: d8

Class skills: The Adventuring Physician's class skills are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Alchemy) (Int), Decipher Script (Int; Trained Only), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Any; Taken Individually; Trained Only) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Doctor) (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex; Trained Only; Armor Check penalty), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Ranks per Level: 8 + Int Modifier

(For the chart: Medium BAB, Will saves strong, abilities at each level:
Level 1: Study, Anatomical Knowledge, Sneak Attack +1d6, Surgery
Level 3: Intelligent Direction, Sneak Attack +2d6
Level 4: Health Booster
Level 5: Anatomical Knowledge, Anatomical Strike, Sneak Attack +3d6
Level 6: Supernatural Disturbance
Level 7: Poison Use, Sneak Attack +4d6
Level 8: Anatomical Knowledge
Level 9: Concoction, Sneak Attack +5d6
Level 10: Anatomical Strike, Field Guide
Level 11: Anatomical Knowledge, Keen Observation, Sneak Attack +6d6
Level 12: Supernatural Disturbance
Level 13: Sneak Attack +7d6
Level 14: Anatomical Knowledge, Keen Observation
Level 15: Anatomical Strike, Sneak Attack +8d6
Level 17: Anatomical Knowledge, Keen observation, Sneak Attack +9d6
Level 18: Panacea, Supernatural Disturbance
Level 19: Panacea, Sneak Attack +10d6
Level 20: Anatomical Strike, Panacea

Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Adventuring Physicists are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the scalpel (kukri). They are proficient with light armor, but not shields:

>>5867394
-Continued-

Study: The most important skill of an Adventuring Physician is to heal, and equally important is to learn how to heal. To do so, Physicians perform autopsies on both the living and the dead, both to determine what makes the creatures tick and how to stop them from ticking. Dissection may be performed on any dead creature with discernable anatomy (Basically, any sneak attack target, plus plants) within 24 hours after it died. Doing so takes 1d4 hours, and during the process, the Physician takes notes and studies the creature. Each act of studying a corpse provides many benefits, including access to several class features, for the race studied. Subraces are included in the studying, creature types are not. Dissecting an Elf also provides benefits against Drow; disscting a goblin does not provide benefits against hobgoblins. Each time a race is studied, the Physician retains the benefits for a number of weeks equal to half of his level at the time of the autopsy. A Profession (Doctor) check must be passed to successfully study and take notes about a race, the DC of which is 10 + the HD of the monster. If the Physician is interrupted but returns to the corpse within the 24 hour period, a concentration check of the same DC -5 must be passed to successfully continue. After the study has left the Physician's mind, he may study his notes instead of the creature again. This requires a Profession (Doctor) check equal to the original DC. A failure of either Profession check requires the use of another specimin; the notes are now useless, as is the mutilated corpse.

>>5867412
-Continued-

Vivisection is another option available to the Physician, in which he dissects a creature while it is still alive. The creature must be held in some way, either through magic, strong attendants holding it down, or the use of ropes and such to keep it from squirming too much. Any creature, even a willing one, must be held this way, for any creature will attempt to escape the pain and horror of having its insides examined. The scalpel used must be able to overcome the creature's damage resistance or else it can not be vivisected. Vivisection results in the death of the creature, although a Raise Dead spell can still bring it back. Vivisection takes twice as long as a dissection, 2d4 hours, although the results are worth it for the Physicians who can handle their conscious afterwords: the benefits of studying the creature lasts a number of weeks equal to the Physician's level, and the Physician gains a bonus equal to the Ranger's Favored Enemy ability. He may only have this vivisection bonus for one race at a time, and no notes, no matter how well transcribed, can provide this bonus.
Writing the notes requires a sheet of paper or parchment of a number equal to the creature's HD, plus ink to write with.

>>5867417
-Continued-

Anatomical Knowledge: The Physician does not keep his knowledge of his enemies to himself, and as a full round action, he can describe to his party members how best to deal with their foes, so long as he has Studied the enemies. This act requires a Profession (Doctor) check at a DC of 15. If the DC is beaten, then the bonus is +1. If the DC is beaten by 10, then the bonus is +2. If the DC is beaten by 20, then the bonus is +3. At level 17, the bonuses all double in effectiveness. The effects are cumulative.
At level 1, the Physician imparts an attack roll bonus as he describes where best to attack.
At level 5, he imparts a damage bonus as he describes the most effective ways to strike.
At level 8, he describes how to deal with the creature's abilities, imparting a saving throw bonus.
At level 11, he describes how best to avoid the creatures attacks, imparting a dodge armor class bonus
At level 14, he describes how to disable with a successful strike, if the creature fails a fort roll with a DC equal to 15 + its HD

>>5867427
-Continued-

Sneak Attack: Exactly the same as the Rogue's Sneak Attack except for several ways. It may only be used with a light bladed melee weapon, it may only be used against a creature the Physician has studied, it is usable against plants, and the Physician must roll a Knowledge check the first time he sneak attacks a race has studied. The DC is 10 + the monsters HD. If it passes, the Physician does not have to reroll until he has re-Studied the creature again. If it failed, then the sneak attack damage is halved, and the Physician must re-Study to try to get full sneak attack damage again. The Sneak Attack damage starts at +1d6 at level one, and increases by an additional +1d6 every other Physician/Rogue level thereafter.

Intelligent Direction: If the Physician is level 3 or above, and has Studied the creature he is attacking, he may add his Int bonus to both his attack and his damage.

I still have to write out Health Booster, Anatomical Strike, Poison Use, Concoction, Field Guide, Supernatural Disturbance, and Panacea, then the whole class will be out there in one short group so criticism can be easier.

>>5867317
Well done. I approve. That right there gives the player a mechanical reason to search out new life.
Does the field guide increase as well or is it just plus 2. just curious. Excuse the picture.

Heh, I just checked out the archive of this thread in suptg. It's missing quite a bit of the class, since it was archived quite a while ago. Anyone know if there's a way to rectify that?

>>5867465
I think it will increase to +3 at 15, then +4 at 20. Does that sound good? Should it go 2, 4, 6?

>>5867472
I was under the impression it updates itself until the thread is deleted. I don't know if there wass a coding change or not.

>>5867427
>>5867417
>>5867412
>>5867394
>>5867237
>>5867441
You da man.
Especially this!>>5867427
I was going to say something but I was afraid that I was overloading you with ideas. Nice catch.

>>5867516
Thanks, man. This class is turning out a bit more complicated than I thought it would be when I started, but still, I am enjoying creating it.


Health Booster: Allows the Physician to use the Craft (Alchemy) skill to create a homemade tablet of his own devising, filled with herbs and less than savory parts, which boosts the health of anybody who consumes it. The DC to create the Booster is equal to the Physician's level +5. He may create one Health Booster for every four levels of Physician he has. This is the maximum amount allowed to exist, not just on his person, although anybody may consume his Boosters. Each Booster provides a temporary health bonus equal to the creator's Physician level for one minute for every four levels of Physician. At the end of the designated time, the temporary health goes away. The Booster can be given to a dying character to get them above 0 hp, but the loss of the temporary health will return them to dying unless the get healed from another source. As well, for every four levels of the Physician, the consumer gains a +1 bonus to Fortitude saves for one day.
Multiple Health Boosters may be consumed, but this will result in a detrimental effect. The temporary hp and fortitude saves stack, but when the temporary health is lost, the consumer takes 2d6 unblockable damage for every Booster consumed after the first one.

>>5867479
Vivisection takes twice as long as a dissection, 2d4 hours, although the results are worth it for the Physicians who can handle their conscious afterwords: the benefits of studying the creature lasts a number of weeks equal to the Physician's level, and the Physician gains a bonus equal to the Ranger's Favored Enemy ability.

Doesn't the field guide already do this or am I confused?I would say go ahead and put 2 4 6. for the field guide.

>>5867623
The field guide does do that, but the physician also doesn't get the field guide until level 10, whereas he can vivisect at level 1. Also, the favored enemy for the field guide is only there if there are five or more races of one type in the field guide; the physician doesn't have to have dissected multiple races to gain the vivisection favored enemy bonus.

>>5867562
A bonus equal to his level and perhaps his Intelligence mod?
It may be more complicated but it hasn't gone overboard. It's still creative as hell and I still get it so it can't be that bad.

>>5867672
Ooooookay I see so there is overlap but not exactly. It makes sense thanks. It's like 3am here so I'm not at my best.

>>5867562
-Continued-

Surgery: This ability is what allows the Physician to claim himself as such. A healer's kit is required to perform surgery. During surgery, the patient must be restrained as if she was being vivisected, although that result is not preferable here. Anaesthesia is practically unknown except for certain magical spells.
Surgery takes one minute per hp healed, and it heals as much health as the Physician wants to, up to his level times his Intelligence Bonus. He may only perform Surgery on a single person once per day, but he may perform up to his Constitution bonus Surgeries a day. The work is too exhausting to do more. Both parties are considered flat footed during the surgery. An extra Heal check may be performed with no penalty for failure, but if the DC (One half of the damage being healed) is beaten, then the Physician may add his Intelligence bonus to his level for purposes of figuring out how much health he can heal. This extra health is added on to the amount of health before, one may not heal only a small amount before the check in order to heal much more afterwards.

>>5867758
-Continued-
Unfortunately, surgery is a rather risky procedure, and contamination can happen quite by accident. Two separate skill checks have to be made to make sure that the procedure has gone well, a Heal check and a Concentration check, both at a DC corresponding to the amount of health healed. DC 15 as a base, plus five for every twenty health healed with surgery. A failure of one skill check means that the patient has been exposed to a disease and must deal with it with a -2 penalty to her fortitude save; a failure of both checks is catastrophic, and results in the hp healed not being applied, and instead, half of that is dealt to the patient as damage.
A successfull Profession (Doctor) check at DC 20 means that the patient is fully healed after the procedure and can continue on her way. If the check is failed, then the patient must spend 1d3 days under Long-Term Care, although that time can be skipped if a healing spell is applied.
A Physician may purposefully both the procedure, in which case the hp healed is instead converted to damage. A patient who becomes deceased while being operated on may be immediately utilized for an autopsy, see Study.

>>5867769
That was supposed to be "botch the procedure"

-Continued-

Anatomical Strike: The Physician eventually learns anatomy so well that he may use his scalpel or another light bladed melee weapon to deliver carefully chosen, precise strikes with great effect. At every fifth level he may chose one strike from the list below. Only one strike may be used a round, and it must be a full attack action.
Artery Strike - 1 more damage each round for rounds equal each die of the Sneak Attack, unless the victim receives magical healing.
Skillful Strike - Weapon Specialization (Scalpel) (Must already have Weapon Focus)
Intestinal Strike - Target nauseated for rounds equal to Sneak Attack dice
Nerve Strike - Targer must make a fort save of 10 + Physician level + Physician's Int bonus or be paralyzed for 2d6 rounds
Tendon Strike - Enemy struck with this strike loses use of one limb until healed

>>5867815
-Continued-

oison Use: The Physician has become so used to being around unpleasant substances that no poison holds fear for him any more. He no longer has a chance to affect himself when he uses poison for any purpose.

Concoction: Once a day, so long as the Physician has access to an Alchemy lab he may create a non-magical liquid concoction which is equivalent to a Cleric's Cure Critical Wound spell, with two exceptions. It always heals the full amount, 32, plus the Physician's Craft (Alchemy) skill. The Physician may have a number of these concoctions in existence equal to his Physician level.

>>5867855
Whoops, didn't copypasta correctly that time.

The first word should be Poison, and the following should appear at the end of Concoction:

The hp is recovered in quarters; the first quarter is recovered immediately, the next quarter is recovered in one minute, then ten minutes, then an hour, all from the initial imbibing time. Anybody may use a healing concoction, although it has no effect on the undead.

>>5867876
-Continued-

Field Guide: Upon reaching level 10, the Physician is travelled enough to start writing Field Guides, one for each type of creature, such as Aberration, Outsider, etc. A Field Guide superficially resembles a spellbook. It takes one day, eight of which spent with the guide, to transpose his notes for one race into proper form for such a guide. If the Physician spends a full round action studying the guide, he may gain the benefits of Studying one of the races contained within. Every subsequent race is another full round action. A non-Physician who uses the guide gains half of the Favored Enemy benefits, after an hour of study for each race.
If there are five races for one creature type in a single Guide, then so long as the Physician has read the book for an hour he has the benefits of having Studied the entire creature type, even ones he has not yet autopsied. As well, for the specific races within the guide he has studied, he gains them as a Favored Enemy.
All the benefits of the guide last for one day. Only one guide of each type may be in existance.

Only three more abilities left!

>>5867931
-Continued-


Supernatural Disturbance: The Physician uses the mundane to reach his goals, something which makes spellcasters wary of him. In response, a level six Physician has learned how to use his skills agains spellcasters, and once a day he may create a small glob of lotion which is anathema to those who use magic. This ability may not be used by multiclass Physician/casters. The green glob of lotion smells foul, and the Physician may use a touch attack to wipe it on a spellcaster. It reacts with the mana within them, and remains upon them for 1d6 rounds, each round focing a concentrationg check at DC 10 + Craft (Alchemy) of the Physician. Once the Physician reaches level 12, he can create two globs of this lotion, and the effects expand to dispelling the spell effects upon those afflicted with the lotion, starting with the weakest spell. At level 18, he can create three globs per day, and they last twice as long, 2d6 rounds. Each glob only lasts a single day before its anti-magic properties vanish and it just smells foul.

>>5867931
Whoops, forgot this.

The bonus for Favored Enemy from the guidebook becomes +4 at level 15, and then increases again at level 20 to become +6.

>>5867562
If I'm correct, that only gives them four temporary hp for one minute. Shouldn't be a little more or am I just being a broken record?

>>5868026
-Continued-

Keen Observation: Upon reaching level 11, the Physician becomes more aware of how knowledge can directly affect combat. He becomes able to observe his enemy, and once he does so for three rounds, he gains a +2 bonus to the to hit, damage, and knowledge roll of his first attack against that target within the next three rounds, regardless if it is an enemy he has Studied or not. If he does not use this bonus within three rounds of ceasing to observe the target, then the bonus is lost. The bonus expands to +4 at level 14, then it increases again to +6 at level 17.

Panacea: This ability is the same as Concoction except for the following ways. Only one Panacea may be created per week, and only one may be in existance. However, it fully heals the person who imbibes it of all hp damage, all adverse conditions including diseases and poisons, and also removes all negative levels, drained ability scores, and has a fifty percent chance to restore permanently drained levels. Upon reaching level 19, two Panaceas may be in existence, and upon reaching level 20, three may be in existence, and it is guaranteed to restore drained levels as well. It has no effect upon the undead.

>>5868069
It's Physician's Level in hp, for one minute for every four caster levels. Yeah, it needs at least a comma in there.

>>5868090
This was the end, I am finished! I made a class today, and it was surprisingly tiring. Entertaining, but tiring. Any criticisms about the class, my grammar, spelling, life, anything?

>>5868116

You need to get laid.

>>5868116
Since you went this far, you might as well take it a step further. Put it in a text document and upload it to /rs/. I'd download it.

>>5868126
This is why you will never be an internet super hero.

>>5868137
I don't have an account with rs, so wouldn't only ten people be able to download it? Where else would I be able to upload it to?

>>5868105
wat?

>>5868165
You get temporary hp equal to the physician's level. It lasts for one minute for every four levels. Level 4 physician: 4 hp for 1 minute. Level 20: 20 hp for five minutes.

>>5868153
Megaupload. Post the link once you're done. It goes pretty fast, too.

>>5868153

Rapidshare should work just fine, or you can try going to that Mega version.

>>5868126
Be silent in the presence of our Captain or I will watch you burn in the eye of my sun!
>>5868116
Well I'll be damned. You should feel proud of yourself man. You did an awesome job. I can't wait to give this baby a whirl. Thanks for letting me help man. It was a blast. Oh and I was thinking 5d4 for starting gold. What do you think? Do you think that your DM will let you play it?

Someone should rearchive this thread for great justice.

>>5868177
ah I thought so thanks.

>>5868225
Haha, I don't know if he will, but I am sure he will be impressed by what I did.

I'm working on figuring out how to upload, by the way...

>>5868241
Megaupload is extremely simple and you don't need an account.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N87VMYMG

It is done.

5d4 x10, I would think.

>>5868272
That's what's in the text file

>>5868275
Awesome.

Now we know who does the work on the Cerebrectomists of Xiombarg.

>>5868291
The whozawerezits of wherenow?

>>5868272
You truly are a badass. Thanks again. This great. We should post this again tomorrow so that the others may partake of it's awesomeness. Also the archive keeps updating so don't worry about it. It's just being real slow.

So, any criticism?

>>5868333
No, thank you. And I plan on reposting this tomorrow at about the same time I began the thread, so those who gave me the initial advice yet aren't around now can see the fruit of their good will.

>>5868296
Cult of a Chjaotic Evil loli gendershifting chaos deity from D&D. The Cerebrectomists are psychic followers who surgically remove parts of their body as an offering of blood to Xiombarg to gain more power, until all that is left is a brain.

>>5868347
Sounds droll.

>>5868347
What the crap. Hah, I may come up with a sociopathic surgical genius and blew that concept out into a full class, but I haven't done anything with lolis or cthulhu-like deities.

>>5868373
The Cerebrectomist is a prestige class that got built by /tg/ already.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4ZZ5T5GB

>>5868347
lolwut. I guess that's neat.
>>5868345
Fantastic man. This was worth staying up for. I'm still pretty psyched about all of it. That was pretty cool of you to cite me in the text. much appreciated Andy. I however will be heading off to bed so I will talk to later my man. One last time, good work. Peace cap'n.

pic never related.

So, has anybody read through the class and have any comments about it, or suggestions?

I _probably_ will not get to them tonight, but I plan on starting this topic again tomorrow, so I could get to them then.

>>5868401
Night, man

Proving once again, /tg/ does get shit done.

>>5868402
I'm far too tired to comment now. I'll be on tomorrow, though and be ready to rip a hole in any slight flaw you have. You will be disheartened, but ultimately willl yield delicious fruit of labors. Good night, bro. Looking forward to tomorrow. Don't mind the obligatory first post sagers.

>>5868402

2nd and 16 level did you skip or do they get zip?

>>5868465
Providence decided that none of the abilities I had chosen should land upon those two levels. That's fine, I believe, as most class have more than two "plain" levels.

>>5868484
Good point. Well I will join you for tomorrow. Good luck and Godspeed.

And now, I, the original poster and final poster (for a given period of time at least), shall depart to bed. Adieu!

>>5867394

WATCH YOUR COMPLEXITY

I'm very tired now, and thus incapable of going through all of this meticulously (or really doing anything but skimming it). I see a lot of neat ideas, but I am concerned about complexity. How good a system is can effectively be represented by how cool it is divided by how complicated it is to run. But the complexity in various components tends to multiply together, so that even if you come up with fairly simple ideas, you can still end up with a muddled mess if there's enough of them. It's good game etiquette to keep any new material you invent as simple as you can: simpler than original content if at all possible. It makes it easier for DMs to assess, and prevents it from slowing down your game (and because it's new information to learn and integrate, it's already starting off at a disadvantage in this regard). Don't overdo things. Each new detail you add is cool, but since coolness tends to increase in an almost arithmetical pattern (2 + 2 + 2) and complexity in an almost geometric pattern (2 x 2 x 2), this quickly gets out of hand. I'm not saying toss everything out, but try to go back and trim things down a little. The study / vivisection section, for instance, could be pared down significantly. To demonstrate my point, here is a list of the values and checks used in that section: 24 hours, d4 hours, weeks = 1/2 level, DC 10 + monster level, 24 hours, DC -5, original DG, 2d4 hours, weeks = level, favored enemy bonus, 1 race at a time, creature's HD.

With all of that said, I like your class, at least that which I've been able to discern through my squinted eyes. Now I must sleep.

Thread is now archived!