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  • File : 1254874762.jpg-(424 KB, 1600x1200, heavy_problem.jpg)
    424 KB Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:19 No.6163100  
    Starting a 3rd level 3.5 game. I was considering rolling up a Paladin using this variant:


    ...as a Goliath, using a +1 Keen Large repeating mighty great crossbow and taking the feat in that pdf that lets you use smite with ranged attacks.

    I am secretly going to play The Heavy.

    Suggestions? I might convince a friend to make Secret Pyro.

    Download the Paladin variant, I thought it was pretty neat. I guess post pictures of Paladin-types? Preferably with ranged weapons, I suppose!
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:21 No.6163115
    Need a medic?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:22 No.6163128
    >>Secret Pyro

    Sounds like a job for either a Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic (great class, especially with the Entangling Exhalation feat from Races of the Dragon), or an arcane caster with the Firey Burst feat.

    Either way, you get unlimited at-will fire. I'm about to play a Dragonfire Adept refluffed as a Warlock, shit's going to be cash.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:22 No.6163132
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    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:22 No.6163139
    I wish to play Spy(rogue w/disguise) or Scout(scout with scout), where do you live and how soon do you play?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:23 No.6163146
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    Oh, and here you go.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:25 No.6163159
    The spy should really be a Changeling or Doppleganger.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:25 No.6163161

    Wait, whut?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:26 No.6163177
    W/ extra ranks in disguise. But yes. I support this plan.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:30 No.6163222
    Keen bolts I suppose.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:30 No.6163223
    Remember to carry a healthy supply of sanviches at all times.

    "I am full of sanvich and I am comming for YOU!"
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:32 No.6163248
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    >Revised Paladin

    Thank god! I've been looking for the PDF version of 4ngel's Revised Paladin for-fucking-ever.

    You, sir, get your Paladin-type images.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:33 No.6163269
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    So, you're a big stone man with a big-ass crossbow?

    .....Dat soun's fun.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:34 No.6163274
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    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:38 No.6163304
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    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:41 No.6163336
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    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:43 No.6163352
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    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 10/06/09(Tue)20:46 No.6163373
    Keen can only be added to slashing weapons.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:47 No.6163381
    You can have slashing arrows though.
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 10/06/09(Tue)20:49 No.6163400
    Arrows are considered piercing. All of them. Unless you get some really weird ones from some obscure splat book.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:50 No.6163412

    Man, good thing bolts and arrows are piercing, ya know?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)20:59 No.6163508

    He pulled his version of the pdf. I made this one myself from the WotC board post. Did he get super butthurt over something and stop making D&D stuff? Shame, that.

    As far as I remember, there's a crit-range-doubling enchantment for every damage type as a +1 modifier in one book or another. /shrug
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 10/06/09(Tue)21:03 No.6163546
    Keen can be applied to slashing or piercing, and a crossbow technically deals piercing damage, making it an acceptable candidate (as long as you don't use blunt-tipped bolts for some reason).
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:04 No.6163557
    or incendiary bolts !_!
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:06 No.6163577
    >Did he get super butthurt over something and stop making D&D stuff? Shame, that.

    IIRC he got banned for "inciting arguments" or some shit where the person he was replying to & what he said had nothing to do with the argument. I think everyone was banned in that thread actually. Took them for-fucking-ever to unban him & by then he pretty much said "Fuck this shit & it's den of mouth-breathing failures of Admins".

    Or something like that. I hear he posts again or was before the forums were fucked by WotC in what they called an "upgrade".
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:06 No.6163579
    Races of the Wild is hardly obscure. Arms and Equipment Manual has some slashing arrows too I think, and it's pretty well known.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:07 No.6163587
    Shame about that forum upgrade. A lot of optimization info and cool tricks were lost to the general public at that point.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:10 No.6163620
    Are there any other feats besides Rapidshot and Manyshot I can get to spray a bajillion crossbow bolts downrange? I've never really played an archer-type, and I don't know any tricks to make it work with a paladin, revised or not.

    Paging Touhou?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:14 No.6163664

    I remember reading the original revised paladin thread and rolling my eyes so hard they nearly fell out of my skull when he got all Rhetoric and Argumentation 400 on a dude who basically kept posting "lol ur pally is like WoW it has auras".

    Motherfucker came down on him in post after post with the shining, razored tongue of Diogenes, but it was like trying to punch a cloud. The other guy was either trolling the everloving shit out him or was just really that dense. Thread blossomed into dozens of pages of crap, content was lost in the shuffle.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:14 No.6163666
    Either way, there's a keen equivalent for all three physical damage types.

    Crossbows aren't exactly made for rapid-fire purposes, unless you get it enchanted. Hold on, I'll look it up.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:16 No.6163682

    Uh, we're in central PA. I mean... I guess you could play? I don't think it'd be worth hauling ass for hours just to make TF2/D&D crossover jokes.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:21 No.6163726

    The idea I had was that, since the repeating function is ostensibly a Craft check away from being added on to any crossbow (maybe as a masterwork component at best), it'd be even simpler to make a repeating crossbow bolt magazine with more than 5 bolts in it. I think going belt-fed is a bit much unless the campaign supports that levels of dickery, but considering the fact that, as a large weapon it'll basically be firing shortspears, a spring-loaded or gravity-powered bolt holder could work.

    Or I could just say fuck it and drop the cash for a wondrous item that can use a spell like minor creation or the psionic power Bolt to stop worrying about ammo for under 2,000 gp.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:24 No.6163749
    Wouldn't a warlock work well for the Pyro? I'm not sure if you can have it by level 3 though.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:26 No.6163764

    The Splitting enhancement is key here. Takes your one arrow and turns it into more than one arrow.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:27 No.6163788
    +5 damage against BABIES
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:31 No.6163830
    There's also an enhancement that gives you an extradimensional space that holds a certain number of bolts. It's specific to crossbows, too.

    Problem though, is that it's, memory serving, worth +2. Should I go look, or would it be worth it?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:33 No.6163855

    Nah. Another +2 to a weapon would be nowhere near as cheap as making an item that uses Bolt, a level 1 power, at will. You could probably stat it out as a weapon crystal or something.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:34 No.6163858

    Where's Splitting from?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:36 No.6163882
    Babies needs to be defined as anyone smaller than you, make sure you play a large character. half giant/ogre if you can swing it.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:46 No.6163978
    Rapid Reload. Light crossbows take a free action, heavy crossbows take a move action. You've got space for 100 extra bolts, and it only costs a +1.
    However, I don't remember what book it's from.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:46 No.6163981

    Champions of Ruin, an FR book.

    Any missile fired from a splitting weapon, or an arrow or bolt enchanted with the splitting ability, breaks into two identical missiles before striking the intended target.

    Description: V-shaped engravings adorn a splitting weapon or splitting ammunition.

    Only functions if the wielder has Precise Shot.

    Any arrow/bolt fired from a splitting weapon splits into two missile in mid-flight. Bother are identical, sharing the nonsplitting properties of the original missile. Both strike the same target. Roll a separate attack roll for each missile.

    Price: +3 bonus

    Good lord, double your attacks per round with a ranged weapon for as cheap as a +4 weapon.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:51 No.6164033
    Then again, the Arrowsplit spell from the same book is a 3rd level Assassin, Ranger, and Justice of Weald and Woe (wtf) spell:

    Conjuration (Creation)
    Level: Assassin 3, Ranger 3, and Justice of Weald and Woe 3
    Components: V, M
    Casting Time: 1 swift action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One masterwork arrow or bolt
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    This spell is cast upon a masterwork arrow or bolt, causing it to split in mid-flight into 1d4+1 identical masterwork arrows or bolts. All the missiles strike the same target, and you must make a separate attack roll for each missile. The arrow or bolt must be fired during the same round the spell is cast, or the magic dissipates and is lost. The projectile is destroyed even if it misses its target.
    Material Component: Masterwork arrow or bolt.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)21:58 No.6164117
    So... Gloves of Arrowsplit?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:04 No.6164186
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    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:06 No.6164206

    This can be applied as a use-activated item taking up an item slot for 6,000gp, twice that if you don't want it to take up a slot. How do you price a weapon crystal?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:10 No.6164241
    I guess like a wondrous item that doesn't take a slot? First time i heard of them.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:21 No.6164358
    +1 keen Splitting large repeating great crossbow: 50,450gp
    If you can finagle "mighty" out of that, that's another 100gp per point of strength bonus applicable. Let's say +5, because that's easy enough to get.

    Damage: 3d8+6, 15-20/x2, 120ft, 14lbs.

    At 20th level with a Dex of 20, Rapid Shot, Improved Rapid Shot (Complete Warrior), the Gloves of Arrowsplit (and assuming a modified roll of 3 on the 1d4+1) and firing masterwork bolts, that would be at the very least +26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+26/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+16/

    40 attacks.

    With the possibility of another 10 attacks if the dice max out.

    At 3d8+6 per bolt, and assuming that 30% of the attacks crit (15-20/x2), that's an average of 1,014 damage.

    Jesus fucking christ what did I do
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:29 No.6164445
    "What did you do?"

    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:30 No.6164472
    I'm pretty sure you can only use Arrowsplit on the first arrow though. Also you'd probably get 1d4+2 extra bolts out of each one, not 2d4+2, but that's the kind of thing that causes arguments with the DM.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:35 No.6164537

    Figure out what happens when you use some enchanted crossbow bolts
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:36 No.6164539
    That still works out to about 25 attacks.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:37 No.6164555
    That would actually dick you over, as Arrowsplit (the spell) only works on masterwork bolts. The extra damage you'd get from enchanting the bolt would be paltry compared to what you'd be losing from the extra 1d4+1 bolts it would have split to.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:41 No.6164603

    I don't know what you did, but there's not enough Dakka
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:42 No.6164612
    I was thinking of maybe having some different elemental effects on the bolts and mixing them together. But nevermind.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:44 No.6164624
    Are you sure? Enchanting weapons requires the weapon to be masterwork, so the bolts would need to be.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)22:46 No.6164648
    I figured "magic" trumped "masterwork".

    Also, this might be totally off. How often in a round can a use-activated item go off, even if the spell attached to the item activation takes a swift action to cast?
    >> ಠ_ರೃ 10/06/09(Tue)22:48 No.6164662
    Not to shit on the parade, but I'm going to have to agree with the grea/tg/uys proven wrong about crossbows being able to be keened. Not because their piercing but because they're a ranged weapon.

    While the Keen description doesn't have an explicit ranged/melee/whatever qualifier, like say Returning or Seeking does, it is explicitly not on the Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table.

    Is there some errata or loophole somewhere I'm not aware of?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:00 No.6164776

    No, but it makes sense. You're not one of the sort that thinks a logical ending to an infinite damage chain is to drown yourself in a bucket of water to "set your hit points to zero", are you?
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:11 No.6164886

    An arrow can be used as a melee weapon at -4 to hit, 1d4 damage.

    >> ಠ_ರೃ 10/06/09(Tue)23:16 No.6164936
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    You would be correct. Pic related: it's how I feel about the character optimization boards.

    Now as much as I myself would like to have a Keen bow/crossbow/musket/what-have-you, or a Seeking longspear or Ghost-touch whip for that matter, I just chalk it up to some sort of lolgamebalance and forget about it.

    If only this thread's heavy could get Vicious. That's some guaranteed campaign-wide, single player burst-dps right there.
    >> ಠ_ರೃ 10/06/09(Tue)23:18 No.6164956
    Disregard that; I was thinking of those fucked up 3.0e ranged whips.

    When I'm not choking on rules, I'm choking on cocks.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:22 No.6165025
    You only have one Swift action per round, so just once. Also i'm not sure if 3.5 had any specific rules about using a Move Action to make a Swift Action for spellcasting, but then you'd only get one attack and couldn't use Rapid Shot.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:24 No.6165051
    The duration is instantaneous.
    Just pay some wizard to spend a month casting it on a fuckload of bolts.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:30 No.6165119
    fuck nevermind, i missed that line in the spell.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:32 No.6165140
    At first I thought that, for the same price, you could just use the item during downtime, but then I saw

    >>The arrow or bolt must be fired during the same round the spell is cast, or the magic dissipates and is lost.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:34 No.6165161
    That's still up to 19 attacks in a single round.
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:39 No.6165236
    4 base, +1 rapid shot (what does improved do?), x2, +1d4+1 = 11-15

    Does Improved Rapid Shot give one extra attack at each bonus or something like that? If it was that it'd be 8x2+1d4+1 = 17-21
    >> Anonymous 10/06/09(Tue)23:46 No.6165333

    4 from base.
    +1 from rapid shot (5)
    Improved rapid shot removes the -2 penalty to all the rest of the shots.
    Five shots becomes ten from the weapon enchantment.
    The first two of those ten shots (because the first two shots were originally one bolt) becomes 2d4+2 shots.
    9+2d4+2 = 12-17.

    Huh. Dunno where 19 came from.
    >> The Shadow 10/07/09(Wed)00:02 No.6165535
    I'll admit I'm no optimizer, but why not get returning for a number of bolts and have it set to return back into the repeater. That way you'd never have to reload.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)00:28 No.6165841
    But then you wouldn't have a field of bolt-riddle corpses.

    Come on. We have STANDARDS to maintain.
    >> Floater Commander 10/07/09(Wed)00:48 No.6166043
    There is that.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)00:57 No.6166156
    Magical drum magazine of infinite bolts.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)01:05 No.6166269
    A marvelous idea!

    Now if only ammunition didn't automatically break when it hits a target, it might actually be viable.

    (Though this seems like BS. You're telling me ironwood or adamantine bolts break when fired?)
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)01:09 No.6166340
    Magic projectiles have a 50% chance of being salvageable. Projectiles of other hardnesses are dealt the damage they inflict to determine if they break or not.

    I know the first part is right, but I'm only barely remembering the second part. It makes sense, though.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)01:16 No.6166445
    Projectiles that miss have a recovery rate. In any case, firing them uses up any magical ability. Additionally, they no longer count as masterwork after being recovered.
    Still, if you are in a situation where you actually need to recover missed arrows because you're that low, then it could be useful.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)01:20 No.6166500
    You can also add Speed. It's only one extra attack, but if rapid fire is what you're going for...

    Also, you could probably arrange something with your DM to get storable splitting arrows, so long as you pay out the ass (it costs $400000 to fire this gun for 12 seconds).
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)01:33 No.6166680
    Arrow Storm might be worth looking at, though that's more hitting everything around you instead of a line of death
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)01:57 No.6166936
    350 gp for every fifty bolts(7 gp a piece). Each bolt of which splits at no additional cost.

    Six base attacks(with the mentioned Speed enhancement) times 7 gp a piece and for two rounds is 84 gp. If you were counting each additional("free") bolt, maybe.

    As far as the storable splitting bolts, they'd be 750 gp a piece(3[spell level]x5[caster level; assassin]x50[single-use]). And they'd split into an additional 1d4+1 bolts. One bolt splits into two bolts, which each split into 1d4+1 bolts, each of which splits into another 1d4+1 bolts.

    Fuck math. Too many attack rolls. You point, pull trigger, is dead.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)02:13 No.6167128
    Okay, maybe not fuck math. My brain grabbed onto it, it comes out to, for one shot, 24.5 attack rolls. With six shots that comes to 147 bolts in six seconds. Twelve seconds of devoted fire, two full round full attacks, comes out to 294 bolts.

    Each one that hits deals 3d8+6 damage and has a 30% chance to be a critical hit(keen, according to the example above, gives it a critical range of 15-20).

    12 of these bolts would cost 9,000 gp.

    This is, of course, assuming that the DM allows you to use the magic bolt, which is required to be masterwork to even become magic in the first place, in place of the masterwork bolt.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)02:27 No.6167242
    It costs 220,500 gold pieces to fire this crossbow for 12 seconds.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)02:55 No.6167555
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)03:00 No.6167598
    I, too, am getting distinct "Detritus? Open This Door." vibes from this idea.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)03:01 No.6167611
    That's actually close the Heavy's actual rate of fire.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)03:15 No.6167747
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)04:40 No.6168645
    You should also take the slow flaw, halving your movement but making your character all the more heavylicious.

    And hey, you'll get an extra feat out of it.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)07:49 No.6169956

    >>One bolt splits into two bolts, which each split into 1d4+1 bolts, each of which splits into another 1d4+1 bolts.

    I think you're making the same mistake I originally made. The use-activated item can only activate once a round. Otherwise, you could make the use trigger "when I blink" and the spell as "quickened enlarged maximized empowered circle of death" and lay waste to cities by fluttering your eyelashes at the pretty passing milkmaids.

    I believe the recursive bolt multiplication loop ends after the first 1d4+1 split. One bolt becomes two bolts, and each of those two bolts becomes 1d4+1 bolts for a total of 4-10 bolts on the first shot and two bolts for every shot after that. For five attacks, that still leaves a range of 12-18 shots in a full attack.
    >> Anonymous 10/07/09(Wed)08:22 No.6170175
    The DM said I could roll for stats (even after I offered to do point buy), and I lament this - he'll never believe that I actually just rolled 18, 18, 16, 14, 14, 13. Those are the stats we're going to go with, though.

    A Paladin of Significant Gravity
    Goliath Revised Paladin 2
    Revised Paladin: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3XFHBDKL

    STR 22, DEX 16, CON 16, INT 13, WIS 14, CHA 16
    Relevant Goliath racials: +4 str, -2 dex, +2 con, Large Build
    Speed: 15, 10 in armor

    AC: 18 = 10 + 3 (dex) + 5 (breastplate)
    Saves: Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +4
    HP: 10+1d10+3

    BAB: +2
    Sascha (+1 Keen large mighty [+5] repeating Great Crossbow): +6 OR +4/+4; 3d8+6, 15-20/x2, 120 ft, 14lbs
    Killing Gauntlets of Bashing [spiked gauntlets with bludgeoning damage]: +8; 1d6+6, x2

    15 points to spend, racial +2 on Sense Motive
    -4 armor check penalty

    Flaws: Slow (half base speed), Murky Eyed (roll miss chance twice on targets with concealment, take the worst roll)
    1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Great Crossbow)
    2: Point Blank Shot (+1 atk/dmg within 30 feet) [from flaw]
    3: Rapid Shot (extra attack, -2 on all) [from flaw]

    Special Abilities:
    Aura of Good, Detect Evil (60ft cone at will), Smite Evil 1/Encounter (+3 attack, +2 damage), Divine Grace (+cha mod to saves up to character level max), Lay on Hands (6 points, can be refilled with 1 minute of prayer 2/day)
    Next feat would be Holy Arrow (from the Revised Paladin document, lets you smite with a ranged attack)

    First major expenditure would be the wondrous item that gives infinite ammo. Second major expenditure would be Gauntlets of Arrowsplit. Third major expenditure would be enchanting Sascha with Splitting (a +3 enchantment).

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