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  • File : 1256521041.png-(134 KB, 777x600, MachinaDei_Map.png)
    134 KB Machina Dei Julius Caesar 10/25/09(Sun)21:37 No.6434371  
    This is a thingy /tg/ has been working on for about 24 hours straight. It's essentially a wargame, though we don't have rules yet. There's plenty of fluff though, current canon is at
    > http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Machina_Dei
    Read it.

    The last day of work is in the following threads:
    >Thread 1: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6419240/
    >Thread 2: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6422623/
    >Thread 3: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6425883/
    >Thread 4: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6431149/

    You are encouraged to at least skim them.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:40 No.6434411
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:41 No.6434415
    >encouraged to at least skim them.

    You are encouraged to read them. Skimming them is a minimum.
    >> Warpspasm 10/25/09(Sun)21:42 No.6434430
    Don't forget, Jesus is Grimdark
    >> RAWK LAWBSTAR 10/25/09(Sun)21:43 No.6434444
    good sirs, this is fucking awesome
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:44 No.6434450
    what is this i don't even
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:44 No.6434453
    That's a pretty good basic-basic summary.

    Also, before some faggot starts this shit again:

    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:44 No.6434455
    Wait is china going to be 1 nation or is it going to be a core nation with a bunch of vassel states, each supplying their own unique forces?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:46 No.6434469
         File1256521563.jpg-(1.17 MB, 2560x2234, machina dei map.jpg)
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    This map is much less detailed, but at greater resolution. Feel free to edit it.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:46 No.6434472
    I'm fairly sure we ended up agreeing on core with vassal states
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:48 No.6434498
    'm glad you like it. The midday crowd was not nearly so positive.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:49 No.6434504
    Grimdark Jesus has been imprisoned in a giant crucifix machine since he's immortal. The best Rome could do was seal in there while they try to figure out how to kill him. Meanwhile grimdark JC has figured out a way to use his fancy divine powers to revive his followers, giving them something like the We'll Be Back of the Necrons.

    Christians can also sacrifice themselves ritually to allow an angel to descend into reality to kick the living shit out of everything. These are more eva styled than winged people, if you want some old testamenty you need more people to sacrifice themself. This is essentially one of the few ways they can permantly die.

    The other way is dismember them completely, burn the parts, and entomb them. Anything less than that means the parts can be brought back together again and the individual can be revived.

    They also get fancy divine-cybernetic implants to make up for lost body parts.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:49 No.6434508
    Vassals, but forces are not super unique.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:50 No.6434514
    Surprise, day /tg/ blows.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:51 No.6434533
    SO... we were discussing Iranians/Persians as a possible mercenary race. Anyone know anything cool off the top of their head? Or should I do some research?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:52 No.6434540

    I thought part of that power was JC using the Cross he was imprisoned in as a sort of Resurrection Engine?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:53 No.6434545
    >dismember them completely, burn the parts, *or* entomb them
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:53 No.6434547
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:54 No.6434553
    and by that, of course, I mean an expeditionary fleet.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:55 No.6434568
    djnn controllers as I could recall
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:56 No.6434575
    ya, the general consensus was a centralized core and vassal states so that there are anachronized samurai and ninja there. I don't like it as it violates the principle state of law in Chinese politics of the time, but meh, as long as the core is as rigid as faptau's fapper, all's good
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:57 No.6434577
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:57 No.6434587

    man, what are you talking about? I don't think the Olmecs would invade europe.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:57 No.6434588
    That was the Beduin.

    Fuck you, there is no need to start talking about flying olmecs every single fucking time we start a new thread. I get that you think the idea's cool. Fine, I don't disagree. They don't fit into the setting.
    >> Warpspasm 10/25/09(Sun)21:59 No.6434605
    >They don't fit into the setting.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)21:59 No.6434611
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    Might I suggest some mysterious invaders?

    Pic related
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:00 No.6434621

    Well damn how about we throw in some Americans. Nazis are always fun to fight lets have them there too they can ally with the space aliens.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:01 No.6434622
    So... what is the size range of these mechas.

    Are we talking what, space marine? dreadnought? battletech? evangelion?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:02 No.6434631
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    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:02 No.6434635

    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:02 No.6434637
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:03 No.6434647

    I feel they should be small with a few unique units being huge
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:03 No.6434650

    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:04 No.6434652
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    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:04 No.6434653
    I think early on we were talking about the mechs that Vulcan himself made were about the size of the Colossus of Rhodes. Man-made ones are far larger than a man, but most of the nations have stuff of that caliber as mid-tier units.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:06 No.6434670
    The larger man made ones are 24-ish, although there are probably exeptions. The bulk of man made mechs are roughly 15 or so feet tall, although they can easily vary.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:09 No.6434696
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    Maybe we could grab the rough measurements of all the unit types so far and get someone to do a line up table for the heights.

    ya know for a sense of scale
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:10 No.6434702
    I suggest for the next thread, there should be: OLD WORLD ONLY in the title and Aztecs and other New World civilizations are for an expansion

    Back on topic:
    Most of the Middle Eastern nations are now part of Rome

    Depends on the tier
    Primary: Huge
    Secondary: general agreement was 12-15 ft
    Tertiary: mostly ground level like power armors or see Terracottas

    Shouldn't the Indians have a "karma" factor in their play style? It's like for example they use it to "reincarnate" their slain unit but there's a catch it's a random reincarnation, so you might get some kind of powerful animal like a tiger or rhino to a lowly chicken or monkey, also the powerful reincarnation, the harder for it to be obtain

    Also this ability can be only use by their spell casters or high end units
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:10 No.6434706
    Zoroastrianism. The basic mythology and beliefs lend itself pretty good to a fantasy setting really.
    Especially the dualism, while normally a Zoroastrian would only pay attention to Ahura Mazda, the God of Order and his angels, perhaps these difficult times could call for the occasional invocation of "Angra Mainyu" (literally "The Destroyer of Souls") and his demons

    They also believe fire ) to be sacred (they have places of worship called "Fire Temples" irlso maybe you could do something with that.
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!TZikiEEr0tg 10/25/09(Sun)22:11 No.6434715

    Europeans are midgets...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:14 No.6434741
    >Most of the Middle Eastern nations are now part of Rome
    You could always put in some hold outs like the Christians and Indians have.

    The Caucus mountains might prove difficult to flush out using mechs so perhaps some Persian holdout could be there. It happened irl when some Persian nobility fled there after Alexander conquered the Achamended Empire.

    As for Arabia, perhaps in the vast sands there walks a self-proclaimed prophet that is gathering a following...
    >> Beardy McCelterson 10/25/09(Sun)22:16 No.6434753
    This has been a massive undertaking, and I'm only going to say that I enjoyed CONTRIBUTAN.

    Also, did anyone ever decide what the Indian Tertiary was going to be? I know elephants were mentioned, but nothing concrete...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:17 No.6434769
    Your understanding if Hinduism is very western. And by western I mean wrong.

    I agree that Zoroastrianism is cool, but it's the wrong time period. I know somebody said historical accuracy doesn't matter, he was, I presume, hoping to stave of trolls. Historical realism is not a main goal, but we're still staying in about the right place.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:18 No.6434779
    >In persian mythology Peris were faerie like beings that became the target of a lower level of evil beings called Daeva, who persecuted them by locking them in iron cages. This persecution was brought about by, as the Daeva perceived it, the peris' lack of sufficient self-esteem to join the rebellion against good.

    Spirits are entombed by gods into iron machines forced to wage war as punishment for refusing to take sides between good and evil.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:19 No.6434782
    >Arabic and Christian rebel alliance?
    Holy Shit

    we've been all over the place with India's units. Oh, and just as I checked, they've been changed again to match thread 4's rants. Primary: Greater Avatars. Secondary: Siddi Monks. Tertiary: War Elephants (and retinue?)
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:19 No.6434787
    Massive ammounts of peasants with the occasional hindu magic/buffs/voodoo kharma.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:19 No.6434788
    Yeah, we made them tertiary and made the super monks secondary.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:23 No.6434828
    >Spirits are entombed by gods into iron machines forced to wage war as punishment for refusing to take sides between good and evil.

    They seem to be tailor-made for this.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:26 No.6434854
    Yep. If somebody could find out what they're called, and a basic description of them, then we could get the right up.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:27 No.6434865
    Really they were just put in iron cages. I fluffed it up.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:30 No.6434889
    Zoroastrianism was really strong right up until the rise of Islam and that doesn't seem to have appeared in this setting so I dont see why not
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:32 No.6434909
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    actually, this is an issue I've been wondering about. Machina Dei is pretty much turning into Rome+Mechs, and then for all the other nations are a bit of if-all-myths-were-true. It seems a bit unbalanced in the sense that Rome gets nazi-super-science-tech as an additional emphasis to its mythology. I'm probably unfairly biased, but I do think a few minor fluff changes might help. Perhaps the Avatars of India are floating, metal-clad forces of nature, or the Jade Wagons might look a bit more like a Hellcannon from the WHFB Storm of Chaos thingy.
    tl;dr: metal bits, nations need them
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:35 No.6434934
    I was always under the impression that the avatars were robotic.

    Also, the huns don't fit real world mythology.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:35 No.6434944
    Well, As I said they're called Peri and from what I can find, read google, they're angles with colorful wings but that doesn't matter if they're chained up inside a mechanized titan of war.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:36 No.6434951
    this is fucking awesome
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:39 No.6434981
    chinese warmachines aren't just pure jade or terracotta, they're still coated with the best armor they can slap on them

    As for India, it depends on what is it

    the lower ranked Siddhi monks might not be wearing armor at all since they can fucking teleport and precognition and stuff
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:39 No.6434988

    Well, the Persians really really really liked fire...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:41 No.6435011
    I'm afraid if we use Zoroastrianism for the Persians they might overlap in with the Christians
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:42 No.6435016
    You have to remember that the initial post was:

    >"I think we can build a game on two simple >concepts:
    >1) Ancient Roman Empire 2) Giant Mechs.

    Much like the imperium in 40k, the roman empire is fuckhueg, but they don't have the drive (lol nero) to get their shit together on the western front, and fight endless swarms on the eastern one. They're (or rather, their gods are) what started the machina dei arms war - it essentially changed how the deities interact with the mortal realm.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:48 No.6435079
    the tertiary should be war elephants along with crazy fast soldiers using katars, chakrams, and urumis (like the guy from Berserk)
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:48 No.6435087
    nah, we just be careful what parts we use.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:50 No.6435096
    of course, that doesn't preclude other nations of having mechs, but it seems much of the focus so far has been in that direction.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:53 No.6435129
    actually, this is a quandry I've been wondering too. The Romans still use actual *people* for their tertiary. Shouldn't the other nations do as well? India's got War Elephants and China's got Terracotta warriors. Fine. But what are their otherwise sizable populations doing? I suppose we can make the argument that the Indians are resistance fighters or the Chinese are busy in their factories, but it seems we're missing something here
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:53 No.6435134
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    so something like these guys?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:54 No.6435146
    Well golems and the kinds of mechs we're using are interchangeable. It was agreed in the first thread that they're finely crafted metal monstrosities fueled by the power of the gods. So technically, roman mechs are just metal golems or terracotta warriors, clay mechs.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:56 No.6435163
    most nations use people for tertiarys, they just tend to have an added advantage than being straight up normal humans

    If groups of normal humans lacking any sort of divine augmentation were to be fielded, they'd be called quaternaries.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)22:59 No.6435197
    all roman mechs are piloted

    chinese tertiaries are not piloted, though I think some mentioned that they should have some bigger ones made of jade as a base that are gundams from g gundam in addition to their tanks, of course all of these still have metal armor layered on top, they just are made entirely of metal like Roman mecha are
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:01 No.6435230

    Regular humans could possibly be fielded as tertiaries if they were given sheer weight of numbers, like 10 for every 1 other tertiary unit type.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:04 No.6435265
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    Hmm, that's giving me visions of Escaflowne...
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:05 No.6435278
    Why not just add basic humans, entirely apart from the tiers? Stat them all the same, but allow them to take different gear to provide variety.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:05 No.6435285
    China should get some sort of super technology.

    So how do these different nations feel towards each other? Is rome and china friends? Huns and barbarians at each other's throats? Celts isolationist?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:07 No.6435298
    This is a pretty good way to describe how things escalated.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:08 No.6435315
    everyone versus everyone

    except the barbarians (vikings + rus), they are mercs

    China is the most advanced in terms of mundane technology, they have exclusive use of gunpowder
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:09 No.6435327
    Pretty much the Romans vs. everyone initially, with side-conflicts as well.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:13 No.6435380
    well by that technically you could take a fuckton of tertiaries and have them be 'secondaries'

    quantity doesn't matter, the tiers say how augmented you are in a relative way, humans without anything fancy are always quaternaries
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:16 No.6435412

    Why create a brand new layer of the system, when three has worked just fine for the past four threads? What's so wrong about humans being tertiaries that cost next to nothing individually?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:19 No.6435440
    fine that works, but simply adding on another layer doesn't really change anything anyway

    it just serves to delineate a seperation between vanilla humans with vanilla equipment and people with only a small amount of divine mojo going for them
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:19 No.6435455
    I agree. It shouldn't be too hard to balance fucking huge numbers of humans with advanced units (swarm tactics vs. crazy armor ratings/significantly better weapons).
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:20 No.6435466
    I think the only hard separation should really be primary vs. less, with the rest just being differentiated by point value, etc.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:21 No.6435470
    Well, for one thing, they're essentially useless cannon fodder. A Woaden should be able to kill ordinary people pretty much indefinitely, for example.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:21 No.6435482
    I'm bored and want to make up statistics.

    Have we put any thought into a game system for this yet?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:22 No.6435495
    It's more of a thing about keeping some decent proportions, really. Like slots in 40k.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:23 No.6435508
    None at all, but that's really what we should sdo next. Any ideas?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:26 No.6435544
    if you want to play it as a tabletop wargame, no we don't have a system yet. We'll probably need to make one up since warhams probably won't fit to well.

    For a pen and paper RPG, I'd suggest Dark Heresy or Warhammer Fantasy RP. Just not d20.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:26 No.6435546
    Right, which is why I want primaries (and now that I think about it, maybe secondaries) hard-separated. It wouldn't make much sense for an OH GOD WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN fuck-off angel to be in some piddling skirmish, they have better things to be doing.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:27 No.6435554
    I see this as a tabletop game first, easily. It fits 90% of the flavor.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:27 No.6435565
    Similar to WHFB?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:29 No.6435581
    We don't want a magic phase. Any special effects can be part of shoot, melee or move phases.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:29 No.6435584
    First we should work out how we want it presented. No grid (40K style), hex grid, squares? Each has their advantages.

    Personally I'd lean towards hexes. It makes computing things a bit easier then non-grid (easy to define how the grid pieces interact with each other), and just seems a bit more intuitive to me then squares.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:30 No.6435588
    I was thinking running this with Mutants & Masterminds.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:30 No.6435600
    Could always do a Silhouette with it, similar mechanics in two different scales. One of them is 40K size skirmish, the other is epic-scale stuff with 'stacks' of units, Erfworld style.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:32 No.6435621
    Units should probably a have a teir (divine mojo level) an archetype/role so you know what they do, and a weight/size class

    Like a Roman Saturn is secondary medium anti-infantry armed with a big fucking war scythe to cut down anything foolish enough to stand before it
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:33 No.6435627
    It's not a seperator, so much as proportions. There will never be an army of six primaries and nothing else. Instead it would be maybe 40 tertiaries, three secondaries, and a primary. Or it could be a lot of secondaries, depending on the army. But proportions should take that into account too.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:34 No.6435639
    How likely is a formation of infantry to be able to take down the mechs of various sizes?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:35 No.6435644
    tertiary tier or quaternary tier?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:40 No.6435696
    No grid. Scale is too big, hexes would stop being fun real quick.

    Tiers are definitely in, they're pretty much intrinsic to this now. The only question is how they're going in and how much effect they have.

    Archtype - I dunno. think we ought to leave that undefined, at least for now. We may want to assign some titles for that later, to give the player an idea of what a unit's good for, but it shouldn't be too integral to the system. Size class - I disagree, I think just a size stat. Use it to say how big the base must be (since I don't imagine we'll ever run off standardized models for this).
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:41 No.6435706
    Add some more Celtic Stuff from the Myths. (Irish,Welsh,Britian,Scotland.) Theres a lot of stuff to draw on other then just Druidic Stuff.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:41 No.6435709
    Tertiary formation should have a decent shot against a single Secondary.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:41 No.6435711
    I feel that Hero Clix or Mage Knight would make for a great influence if we go with hexes
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:42 No.6435724
    I thought Mage Knight kind of sucked, though... Never played Heroclix.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:42 No.6435726

    always named after the god that created along with a honorary title, never number

    typically named after lesser deities, heroes, and noteworthy monsters/beasts. Always assigned with a number. The Dii Consentes's (the 12 major gods) names are usually reserved for primaries.

    typically named after monsters and beasts
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:43 No.6435734
    Let's get something working first.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:43 No.6435747
    theres plenty of fae in there, hell a group of woden use fae blessings to bascially act as mirage tanks from RA2
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:45 No.6435766
    Roman tertiaries are Lorica Faulta. They don't get names. I'd say reserve all god's names for Primary, and name Secondary after Heros and Monsters.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:45 No.6435771
    I find non-grid games too fiddly, personally.

    And as for the scale, it's relatively easy to class certain units as 'stands', Warmaster style. Primary and Secondary mechs would be one-per-hex. You can have two tertiary units in a single hex as a stand. A stand of infantry would be about ten soldiers, but five stands could fit in a single hex, so you could have a Roman Century in two hexes side by side.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:46 No.6435791
    On the topic of tiers and unit types, I think this is a good idea. Inside of each Tier we have designations for what each unit type is good for or what each one's function is, like Controller, Artillery, Commander etc. designations in 4E.

    In that respect, however, will tertiaries really need designations? Maybe have base units and then gear them depending on how you want them to function. I feel that designating different types of humans + buffs seems kinda excessive. Rather, just have base material and craft your squads from there
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:47 No.6435803
    I was thinking of like this:

    The mechs are named from gods
    Primaries will have Primera in it's name like Saturn Primera or Pluto Primera

    Secondaries would have Secunda, same names, since "inspired" by Vulcan. The reason why Secunda due to it's more a homage of said model
    if Pluto Primera's power makes it some godly abilities, the Secunda retains only a tiny fraction of it like going invisible (Pluto's Helm) or there can be variations like Pluto Secunda Cerebrus variant/pattern

    Tertiaries are just Roman Soldiers in power armor
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:49 No.6435829
    So basically what you're saying is to scale the battlefield around the primaries and then scale down as we move down the tiers?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:50 No.6435837
    I think naming them after lesser gods for the secondaries should be fine since most of the time the primaries are going to be the big name ones like >>6435726 is suggesting

    and the tertiary stuff is still going to be named, so naming it after monsters and various animals doesn't seem to far out of an idea
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:52 No.6435858
    But with Roman mythos having such a massive pool to draw from, it just seems a waste to limit ourselves like that when we have so many possibilities for names. I like the idea of Primaries being gods with secondaries being heroes and mythical critters.

    As for tertiaries, why not just stick with analogues from actual roman infantry? Or maybe dip into Greek unit types? That would be kind of out there, but Greece had a much more diverse unit pool if I remember correctly
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:55 No.6435887
    I'm seconding a slight alteration to WHFB. It already has rules for formations and bonuses for ranks and the like, plus the core/special/rare unit selections naturally lend themselves to the 3 tier system we've established.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:57 No.6435918
    how about for tertiary a animal and the infantry type?

    you're method is more liming since the number of primaries pales in comparison in the availble types of secondaries

    Primaries and Secondaries are named after gods.
    Secondares can be named after hereos and famous monters.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:59 No.6435928
    Okay, we should go Primary:God names , Secondary: Hero names

    Didn't the roman use like numbers for their infantries?
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:59 No.6435932
    It's not that simple as sizing by Tier, though. Primary Huns can be huge, for example, or not so much I think we decided Attila was the size of a castle. While for practical purposes we'll want to tone that down a bit, he'll still be fucking immense. Meanwhile, a Treeman should only be as big as an extremely large tree. Man Machines are twice a man's height, and God Machines are thrice that, so they're not as big as Attila. Most of the Great Angels should be that big too. Even in Secondary and Tertiary, there's size range. A Siddhi Monk is significantly smaller than a Jade Wagon.

    As far as stands in a hex: This is a reason grids aren't that great; you can't do formations. In a grid-less game, they get square bases, you line them up the way you want them, and it's a formation.
    >> Anonymous 10/25/09(Sun)23:59 No.6435935
    Another for converting WHFB.
    If we don't want to use magic, don't use the magic phase. If we DO want to add minor magic on a smaller scale, a system is there.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:00 No.6435943
    this is for fielding a purist Roman army, obviouslty fielding an Egyptian Roman army will get you a primary called a Ra Invictus or something and with secondaries modeled after it being called Ra Secunda.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:00 No.6435945
    Woad was only used by the Britons. Your stuffing Four other groups. (Ireland,Scotland and the Welsh.) You should also make the Celtic Groups a sort of Confederation (I find it hard to think that only Boadica would control all of the British Islands.) I think it'd be fair to have the High Irish King,The Scottish Caledonians (Not much info on these guys.) and the Welsh Tribes.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:02 No.6435960
    But you're assuming that there is going to be a substantial number of Primaries. With the massive amounts of fuck-you-up power these things will be wielding, are we really going to need a large unit selection for primaries?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:03 No.6435981
    it likely is a confederation formed around Boudica, though you can hardly say she in in full control.

    this gets us less names do like >>6435945 and
    >>6435918 are suggesting. It still gets what you have but with more possibilities.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:05 No.6436001
    I think the idea is that she's not so much a complete sovereign as a rallying point/general.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:06 No.6436015
    thats why I just suggested using the Dii Consentes to begin with since there are only 12 of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dii_Consentes

    Of course there would be more, but those are the 12 most common primaries. Others tend to be extremely rare since primaries are made by the gods themselves, and other gods aren't as much of big shots as the Dii Consentes are.

    This is also why using lesser gods to name secondaries is a good idea since it gets them some show time.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:07 No.6436034
    Seriously look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_deities

    there are more than enough gods to make a fuck ton of secondaries
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:11 No.6436089
    I've got no idea how the system that you're trying to build would work, but why not make units with basic templates that are customizable on a point buy basis? Certain stats or abilities cost X or Y number of points, probably rule out the use of other bonuses, maybe even carry some minuses. The idea being that each person can customize up units to suit their own personal tastes, maybe even fluff, without having to make an exhaustive resource for the workings of every individual god machine and so on.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:13 No.6436107
    that'd be really fucking cool, but a lot of work to make sure it doesn't break easily
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:13 No.6436113
    Abeona, patron god of neckbearded manchildren going to the convenience store for more cheetos.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:14 No.6436140
    The Legions were numbered, yes. I don't know about the subgroupings, but my guess would be that they were similarly numbered.

    For the archtypes, the trap I see here is it will lead us to want to have everything available to each faction, which would make them play to similarly.

    I'm not sure what you mean by designations - you mean designated roles? But I like the idea of determining equipment. The "Standard" would allow one or more different types of each of armor, melee weapon, ranged, and mount. In practice, many would not have all those options, and most would have other additional options. If we incorporate "quaternary" mundanes, they would have those options and nothing else.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:15 No.6436152
    I like this idea. Perhaps have basic frames available, and then depending on which frame you pick, have wargear available for specializing the frame in its own role. For example, have 3 or 4 primary frames to choose from, each frame having different wargear available for that specific frame that allows you to customize and modify it so that you create your own unique version of the mech functioning in its assigned task
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:19 No.6436182
    By designation I meant a name of a creature or hero from the mythos in question. Also, I think we have roughly the same ideas for gearing them. What do you mean by Standard?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:20 No.6436190
    the Dii Consentes are the 12 most common frames

    Apollo, Ceres, Diana, Juno, Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Venus, Vesta, and Vulcan
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:20 No.6436198
    That actually sounds pretty good. And she COULD gain a lot of politcal power using Captured Roman Tech, Capturing Gaulic France and being slightly god touched. However The Irish High King would have a the support of the Tuatha Dé Danaan. The Irish I see while not having High Tech would have something more along the lines of Epic Heroes with lots of powerful magical weapons (good examples would be the Spear of Lugh or Nuada's Great Sword.) and strange and powerful abilties. I'd have to read up on the Caledonian and Welsh.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:23 No.6436228
    Are those names specifically for the Primaries or what?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:25 No.6436252
    Remember that there's supposed to be hella Man Machines though. Also, come to think of it, it makes sense that the Man Machines would be named after men, and the God Machines after gods.

    While you don't need a huge selection of primaries, you're going to want them, because primaries are the fucking awesome centerpiece units. For that matter, we might even want to add rules to create Primaries.

    In theory, I agree. In practice, I think the other bretons should be pussies that basically do whatever Boadica tells them at this point. Basically all the druids fight for her in the interests of keeping the Romans out. So do a ton of Woden, and even some trees.

    Games Workshop does it, to some extent. Besides, I'm pretty sure that the any people who play this aren't going to be doing it for the sake of making an uber-broken list. Unless we're playtesting.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:25 No.6436254
    Pluto, Quirinus, Saturn, Volturnus, Janus, Cybele, Ops, Uranus, Fortuna, Portunes, Proserpina, and Carmenta would likely be the second most common group
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:27 No.6436265
    man machines were manmade copies of god machines

    The Romans would probably humble themselves before their gods and give honor to them by naming these war machines after them
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:29 No.6436295
    those are the 12 most imporant Roman gods, so they are the 12 most common primaries

    these are major gods that aren't in the Dii Consentes. so would be the next 12 most common

    other gods making god machines would be rarer
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:29 No.6436304
    Oh, I just meant the default base assumption which we modified to get the races.

    Yeah, that's what the greeks called the Dodecatheon, essentially the big 12. Ones we should stat at least a couple of.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:29 No.6436305
    irish crazy have fae mojo on their side along with some fancy heros
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:31 No.6436315
    lets just stop argueing and go with that secondaries are both named after gods and heroes (since they often get elevated to demigod status anyway)
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:32 No.6436323
    I like your ideas about having lots of Primaries and Primary creation rules. Should we get started on that or stick to some of the other ambiguous concepts floating around?
    >> Is writefaggotry okay? Historical Christfag !!2TJjFP50EhZ 10/26/09(Mon)00:32 No.6436327
    I had planned on writing more, but it started to turn into a short story (as in, pages and pages.)

    So here you go. I tried to weave some historical accuracy in as well-- it makes it fun to see where the similarities and divergences are.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:32 No.6436330
    >fancy heroes
    I agree with this. We need Chu Chulainn up in this bitch.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:34 No.6436345
    As if Boadica could even screw around with Ireland. (Looks at the Ninth Wave.) Yeah......She might not live. I dont think it'd be a major problem adding a Confederation to this mix. But I find it over-simplistic to just assume she could browbeat the other tribes and kingdoms into submission. It also adds another layer of uniqueness. As with the other nations we seem to be working with large empires. A Celtic Confederation made up of a Celts that is both on the outside seems a solid confederation but internally has various factions and leaders each either trying to preserve there power or gain more power.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:35 No.6436355
    and since secondaries are imperfect copies of primaries, the making rules to create primaries would easily be modified into making secondaries stylized after certain primaries
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:36 No.6436364
    Yeah, that's true. I suppose you could fluff it either way.
    I personally think it would be more compelling to reserve god names for god machines.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:36 No.6436370
    werent the romans way into multiple names like "Claudius Octavio Flavius Caesar" so you could try naming the primary tier the base name say "Mars" or better yet "Mars Prime" which looks like a basic roman centurion armed with a shield and spear the man machine tier could be named after the prime god machine pattern and altered for its knitting out example: "Mars Octavius" a smaller version with spikes on his shield (since octavius liked spikes on his shield) and "Mars Julian") the mars pattern with a short sword instead) etc up to 4 names maybe
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:37 No.6436376
    better yet use both at the same time so you have the god's name refering to the primary it was modeled after and the hero's name refering to particular pattern/varient/make it is

    also thread archived for victory
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:38 No.6436384
    Also the Ríastrad (Warp Spasm.) The sorta thing that happens when a human being is filled with the divine wrath of the irish gods.

    "The first warp-spasm seized Cúchulainn, and made him into a monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of. His shanks and his joints, every knuckle and angle and organ from head to foot, shook like a tree in the flood or a reed in the stream. His body made a furious twist inside his skin, so that his feet and shins switched to the rear and his heels and calves switched to the front... On his head the temple-sinews stretched to the nape of his neck, each mighty, immense, measureless knob as big as the head of a month-old child... he sucked one eye so deep into his head that a wild crane couldn't probe it onto his cheek out of the depths of his skull; the other eye fell out along his cheek. His mouth weirdly distorted: his cheek peeled back from his jaws until the gullet appeared, his lungs and his liver flapped in his mouth and throat, his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow, and fiery flakes large as a ram's fleece reached his mouth from his throat... The hair of his head twisted like the tange of a red thornbush stuck in a gap; if a royal apple tree with all its kingly fruit were shaken above him, scarce an apple would reach the ground but each would be spiked on a bristle of his hair as it stood up on his scalp with rage."
    >> Historical Christfag !!2TJjFP50EhZ 10/26/09(Mon)00:38 No.6436389
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    The Golden Palace
    AD 93 (846 AUC)

    The sun might have set on the capital of the largest Empire the world had ever known, but the bustle of the metropolis on the Tiber never ceased. Lights shone out of millions of windows- open flames from the insulae of the lowly rabble, and from the villas of the wealthier citizens, cast bronze lamps that glowed with flameless light. Vigiles patrolled the streets, ever watchful of fires, and commercial traffic- decreed by Caesar to only move at night to ease congestion- worked its way down millions of worn cobbled streets.

    It was a breathtaking sight to behold, this mass of humanity, this city wrought by the will of god and man alike. From the Pantheon to the Hippodrome to the Colosseum, Rome was a city unlike any other. And in a city of wonders, one building far outstripped them all. In an island on the Tiber, connected to the rest of the world by only two narrow bridges, dwelt the Golden Palace. This massive shining structure had been built by the command of Nero, consul and Guardian of Rome in the absence of her Emperor.

    Nero—arrogant, licentious, debauched, and prone to bouts of madness.

    Nero—chosen by the Imperator Aeterna, Gaius Julius Caesar, as a last resort after the death of mighty Germanicus, slain by barbarian hands in Egypt.

    Nero—the madman that the heart of the Empire must suffer with until Caesar returns.

    It was this Nero that had built the palace with funds from the public dole, which caused riots until they were put down brutally by Praetorians. It was this Nero that had the revolving stage built in the center of the Golden Palace, that he might perform for the Patricians of Rome while slaves dumped rose petals upon him from hidden alcoves in the ceiling. And it was this Nero who stood now in the torture chambers below his amphitheater while armed soldiers brought forth the prisoner, and slaves stoked the fires of the cauldron in the center.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:39 No.6436398
    you sir have just struck gold
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:40 No.6436400
    I'm sure someone's pointed this out already, but you know Battletech was /actually/ initially based on a history of the Roman Empire, with mechs, in space, right?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:41 No.6436411
    Only the roman ones, Ideally we want rules like this for all the factions.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:42 No.6436425

    obviously the huns get rules for being mutated as fuck and the celt confederation gets rules for stealing roman stuff and warping with druidic and fae magic
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:43 No.6436430

    In the first thread, I believe.
    >> Historical Christfag !!2TJjFP50EhZ 10/26/09(Mon)00:43 No.6436435
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    The prisoner wore rags that barely covered his emaciated, scarred frame. He looked middle aged, but his appearance deceptively masked a man who was almost a centenarian. His knees were calloused and scabbed from years of prayer, and his beard had been ripped out in patches. John of Cana, known to the faithful as John the Beloved, and to the Romans as John the Accursed, was in greater danger than he had ever been in his life.
    “So,” Nero began, his voice soft, but filled with the knowledge that he was in complete control. “We have here one of the Christians. And not only any Christian, but John! One of the Carpenter’s closest friends…” He snorted derisively. “And what a god you serve—trapped on a cross by the might of Imperial Rome. Betrayed by one of his own! What manner of god do you find fit to serve, Jew? Eh? Is a god worthy of worship, if he cannot even save himself? Answer me!” Nero roared.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:47 No.6436474
    this better end with John turning into an angel when nero stupidly decides to crucify him
    >> Historical Christfag !!2TJjFP50EhZ 10/26/09(Mon)00:50 No.6436495
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    John looked up, his eyes sad yet full of determination. He knew what was coming. “The Kingdom of Christ is not of this world. Do you not think that at any moment he could not summon ten thousand times ten thousand angels to free him from the cross and scrape the world bare like a young man scraping oils from his skin in the baths?”

    The temperature in the room dropped at the mention of angels. The slaves looked ready to bolt; Nero held them there with his gaze. He pointed to the cauldron. “Is that so, wise one? You speak in the abstract; I speak of realities. The kingdom of the gods of Rome is of this world. Jupiter is of this world. Caesar is of this world. Those swords in those scabbards there, they are of this world.” He picked up a bronze stoker from the bonfire below the cauldron and advanced towards John. “Pain… is of. This. World.” He placed the end of the red-hot metal against the flesh of John’s chest. The Christian winced, but made no other sound. Nero held the poker long enough to sear the nerve endings, then rolled the steel onto undamaged flesh. A long, drawn out whimper escaped John’s lips. Nero nodded and stepped back.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:50 No.6436497
    >Is a god worthy of worship, if he cannot even save himself?
    I have no idea where this is going, but I desperately want to find out
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:51 No.6436511
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:52 No.6436518
    Yeah the Irish have a lot of neat stuff like that. You could make Bards into awesome Army Buffer's and Debuffers. You have concepts like Geass (prohibitions against specific actions
    or requirements that a specific action must always be undertaken or performed. Such things must be kept secret or they can be used agaisnt the Hero.) Song of Amerghin (Amerign who was a Druid/Sorceror) Sang a tune when he and his people landed in Ireland bonding himself with the land and gaining a measure of control over it.
    (I am a wind across the sea
    I am a flood across the plain
    I am the roar of the tides
    I am a stag* of seven (pair) tines
    I am a dewdrop let fall by the sun
    I am the fierceness of boars*
    I am a hawk, my nest on a cliff
    I am a height of poetry (magical skill)
    I am the most beautiful among flowers
    I am the salmon* of wisdom
    Who (but I) is both the tree and the lightning strikes it
    Who is the dark secret of the dolmen not yet hewn
    I am the queen of every hive
    I am the fire on every hill
    I am the shield over every head
    I am the spear of battle
    I am the ninth* wave of eternal return
    I am the grave of every vain hope
    Who knows the path of the sun, the periods of the moon
    Who gathers the divisions, enthralls the sea,
    sets in order the mountains. the rivers, the peoples)
    Theres also something I found in relation (A Sourcebook for an RPG with Irish Myth involved.) called "Beyond the Ninth Wave." which allows someone to go beyond a concept and exsist beyond it.
    >> Historical Christfag !!2TJjFP50EhZ 10/26/09(Mon)00:52 No.6436523
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    “It seems you are tougher than I supposed, barbarian. We will see how stoic you can be.” He walked back over to the fire and shoved the end of the stoker back in. “Put him in the cauldron.”

    The soldiers manhandled the old Jew over to a hook that was connected to a chain which hung from the ceiling. As they lifted John’s arms and placed his shackles through the hook, Nero began to narrate. “Do you know what is in the cauldron, O friend of the suffering god? Oil. Some of the finest oils in the world, brought here from every corner of the Empire. Only the best for my guests,” Nero gave a sly smile. “Then the oil is heated for hours until it is at a roiling boil.” The other end of the chain was pulled by slaves and the Apostle was lifted up into the air. “Your screams will accent my performance this evening, Christian. You may “never taste of death” as some have claimed, but sometimes, there are things that make death a mercy.” Nero turned and swept from the chamber to prepare for his concert.

    As his feet dragged over the lips of the cauldron, tears streamed down John’s face. He offered up a silent prayer to the God of his fathers. Then he was plunged into the oils, and the endless agony began. John could not die. But he could still feel pain.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:54 No.6436537
    irish would make for fuckwin units for the celts if a bit fiddly
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:55 No.6436542
    Do we have Aus yet? At this point in time it would be aboriginal animists I reckon. Dreamtime spirits and stuff.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:56 No.6436546
    Christianity was substantially more awesome in it's early period...as opposed to the modern day obese soccer moms screaming about gays marrying will destroy civilization and how we need to support Israel because we need it to be destroyed according to prophecy to summon JEESUS.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:56 No.6436552
    no one is bothering with it at this time

    I suppose sometime we'll make a colonialism expansion
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)00:58 No.6436583
    yeah right now the americas, africa, japan, and oceania are off limits due to anti-clusterfuck laws
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:01 No.6436623
    Why couldn't John die?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:02 No.6436632
    see >>6434504 for explanation
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:03 No.6436642
    Christians don't die when they are killed. Unless you destroy the body, anyway.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:03 No.6436647
    have you done australia yet. I think you'd get aboriginal animists with dreamtime spirits and shit.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:04 No.6436653
    We have not, nor will we.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:04 No.6436655
    the americas, africa, japan, and austrailia are off limits due to anti-clusterfuck laws
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:05 No.6436665
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:05 No.6436666

    Troll/Fail harder
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:07 No.6436684
    well thats a shame, those places will all be interesting. But hey, it's your game
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:08 No.6436695
    indeed, but anti-clusterfuck laws are there to keep us from spreading things to thin
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:08 No.6436696
    We should put up a disclaimer from now on to not suggest any more factions. Six + mercs is tough enough to finalize without more shit being add.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:09 No.6436704
    A geass could also be layed on a person as a sort of curse. But yeah going with Ones Geass usually gives major bonuses to the hero.By the Irish Gods for showing great honor duty and preservance to there Geass. But there have been cases where if a persons geass was revealed it could be used agaisnt the hero to lead to there downfall.

    The Beyond the Ninth Wave could be used for stuff like stealth, eleminating movement penalties, avoiding damage, fast travel across the map (And in Fluff anywhere on earth.) Ignore all types of terrian or war (At the effect that the user cant respond violently.)

    You could also add in such Warbands like the Red Branch Knights

    Creatures like the Hound of Lugh the Aes Sidhe Gray of Macha” and the Black of Saingliu (Two Legendary War Horses)

    Then you have weapons like the Gae Bolga, The Spear of Lugh,Claíomh Solais,Moralltach,Fragarach or the harp Daurdabla.

    Theres a lot of stuff for the Irish.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:14 No.6436740
    Speaking of Mercs... You notice we have three middle-Eastern Mercs, and three barbaric mercs... and then one african merc, from a region Rome doesn't even border any more, and no one else ever did. I'm thinking we should drop the nigger.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:15 No.6436755
    Guys, no Irish. We don't need another faction, at least right now. We can worry about them after we've got something working.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:17 No.6436772
    and merge the middle-easterns into a fucking faction already
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:17 No.6436773
    the irish are part of the celts, just like how the egyptians would be part of the Romans

    getting rid of the african mercs is fine
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:17 No.6436777
    Should I start making a list of a bunch of Irish stuff and a basic outline for a Celtic Confed for the OP's later approval?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:18 No.6436788
    Same deal with the Olmecs. Keep shit relatively collected for now, we might get to them later.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:19 No.6436795
    they under Roman rule, they are not politicallyy significant enough to be a faction

    the mercs are those who live out in inhospitable regions rome doesn't give a fuck about

    yes Celtic Confederation is a go
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:20 No.6436803
    Do it.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:20 No.6436805
    The Irish would be like a Sub-Army of the Celts. The basic premise would be a Celtic Federation made up of the Britons,Scots,Welsh and Irish.

    I'm coming up with so much Irish stuff becuase I have those relevant books open at this minute. And dont feel like going through for the interesting Scottish and Welsh stuff.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:21 No.6436816
    if we do ever do anything japan, its mercs for china
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:23 No.6436827
    I can guess why aren't doing that already, but seriously lets just go ahead and do that, China could use the help
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:24 No.6436834
    I'll have a basic list of some stuff sometime tommrow or the next day. I'll post it on the 1d4chan section if a Machina Dei section isnt on /tg/ at the time.
    The content of the info dump will consist of a mix of heroes,cities,politics within the Celtic Confed, weapons,powers and etc. The OP is free to try and make it all fit within this setting.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:24 No.6436836

    The only mercs I say should be the Norsemen, the Russians and the Gauls. Two are out of reach of the Empire's current influence, and the other is able to cash in on the current power struggles occurring between the Celts and Romans.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:26 No.6436846

    Onmyouji controlling shikigami to act as auxillaries for China

    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:27 No.6436851
    why would russians support huns or indians?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:27 No.6436854
    the middle eastern mercs would there for mongol, indian, and chinese as well as the romans so they are fine
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:28 No.6436859
    they are paid to
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:30 No.6436876
    >Merge Jews, Beduin, and Peri, three extremely distinct groups
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:30 No.6436881

    The Middle Easterns are solely in the grip of the Empire. Why would the Romans not mind them aiding their enemies.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:32 No.6436901
    the majority of the population in that region goes along with Roman rule

    the mercs travel to regions where there is combat to sell their services and when they return home they often live in areas where Rome's influence isn't at its best or out in desolate places far away from Rome's eyes
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:33 No.6436906
    Hmm... I feel like people are going a bit overboard on the adding new units thing. Giving Irishman to the Celts? Theoretically, if there was something ubiquitous. But there's not. Giving Japs to the Chinese? The Chinese already have very versatile stuff.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:33 No.6436908
    meh, they are mostly isolationist but why the fuck not, gives China some more fun things to play with
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:33 No.6436909

    The majority of Roman forces are in the east. There is no place there where the Romans are unable to see them.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:34 No.6436914
    there would have to be a rule that you only get one of them per army since they are rare as fuck

    they just provide some additional utility
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:35 No.6436927
    yes because Rome has every square inch of land under its eye, especially in places with vast tracts of desert and arid mountains like the middle east
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:36 No.6436932
    history creates grudges and what do huns have that they (or the norse for that matter) want. One thing that always kinda grated on me in fantasy games were mercs who just took "money" money from civilizations that the merc country disdained or was in war with... the commodities argument is usually even worse "here frozen tundra living motherfuckers have these livestock and agricultural products that will not survive the trip back to your homeland"
    I get that a few people in any civilization will leave or will find something of value in another but the idea that floats in alot of these merc ideas is that random african sees an equal value in the culture and products of a tree hugging buncha celts as they do in clay solider forming chinese.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:36 No.6436937
    In fact, most of those forces are further east than the Mercs homes.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:37 No.6436943

    Even if they managed to go off and fight, what would the Romans do should they see these people fighting alongside the Celts or the Chinese?

    The only group within the borders of Rome that works is the Gauls due to lesser control over the area.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:38 No.6436953
    well in that case we should probably make them roman subarmies then
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:39 No.6436956
    christian should be able to field jewish golems
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:44 No.6437005
    Might as well, Rome has a fucking pile of sub-armies.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:45 No.6437017
    This is starting to get somewhat bloated with all the sub-armies and shit accumulating.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:47 No.6437029
    well jew golems and beduin stuff seem like exotic auxilaries for rome, they would just be additional units in an otherwise roman army
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:49 No.6437042
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:49 No.6437049
    Rome has customization rules for it so that's not that big a deal there

    the Celtic Confederation is makes sense

    China is a provincial, so armies are going to vary by region

    Huns are just going to be crazy as fuck with all the forms the eldritch horrors can take
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:51 No.6437059
    the archive on suptg has been updated, please upvote it
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:54 No.6437086
    I know. I've been saying to cut this shit for half the thread now. Ah well. We can't expect /tg/ to get shit done all the time.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)01:58 No.6437114
    Problem is, it dilutes the faction's flavor and playstyle.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:05 No.6437179
    Not to mention it makes it very, very clusterfuck-y for actualization.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:09 No.6437211
    That too.

    I think we should stick to our six factions with three tiers a piece, and one creature type per tier. Further variation comes from abilities and equipment that can be purchased for creatures.

    We can expand later.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:09 No.6437220
    Indeed. just stick with Roman Legions for Rome, Terracotta and jade wagons for China, angels for christians, etc.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:10 No.6437228
    Agreed. As much as I love branching out to include every possible thing, this is extremely ambitious as it is.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:14 No.6437251
    Don't go over the top with naming conventions.

    Have different models of each primary and secondary, that are different in minor ways, and name them according to this.

    For example, the Mars, Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto classes of God Machine.
    And the Man Machine models, Romulus, Brutus, Marius, Caesar.
    And while the tertiaries would be armed and armoured differently, they are not important enough to be granted special names.

    There's no need to go over the top with variants if you want this to be a wargame.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:17 No.6437290
    So that leaves you with:
    - Four different types of God Machine (which you can still probably customize to a certain degree)
    - Four different types of Man Machine (probably not as customizable)
    - One type of Lorica Faulta, that can be armed and armoured as you please.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:18 No.6437304
    That's a pretty solid list.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:32 No.6437451
    For an example...
    The Jupiter is probably the largest and is basically a gigantic armoured command post, giving bonuses to other machines out of the yahzoo. You can probably choose the individual weapons for it.
    While the Mars is probably smaller and less heavily armoured than the Jupiter, it designed by the Gods themselves to be the ultimate killing machine - how you want to handle this is up to you.
    The Pluto is probably some sort of utility - probably gifted with the invisibility of Pluto's helm, perhaps it could 'reanimate' fallen Man Machines, who knows.
    The Neptune... Fuck, I can't think of anything for the Neptune. Replace that with the Apollo or the Phoebus. Long-ranged support, perhaps even capable of flight - I don't know.

    These are just examples. Nothing solid to go by or live by.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:35 No.6437479
    work so far is great
    just one thing, for the Huns will they always be be huge eldrtich horror type abominations even outside war or in day to day life at home are they normal looking dudes with maybe some small mutations and then they transform into a "war form".
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:37 No.6437491
    As far as I remember, the ones that fuse with the horrors stay fused and in that form.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:38 No.6437496
    Well, there's no need to avoid adding in the formulas by which we generate the variations; then people can make their own. It really shouldn't be too difficulty as we'll need to figure out what's worth what anyway.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:39 No.6437513
    They always look like that. Even during sex.

    ... The Primaries probably are no longer capable of sex.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:40 No.6437514
    Neptune was also the patron of horses, so you might be able to do something with that.

    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:41 No.6437531
    Tanks are considered modern cavalry units.

    Mechs are often considered extensions of tanks (like Front Mission's Wanzers = Wandrung Panzers).

    Therefore, Neptune should fucking love this shit.
    >> Warpspasm 10/26/09(Mon)02:48 No.6437588
    Should the wiki page be updated?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:52 No.6437629
    My knee-jerk reaction is to be like "yes, of course it should!"
    But since you're bothering to ask; I wonder if there isn't a reason to refrain. Thus I must ask you:

    Edit what in it?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:54 No.6437659
    Various ideas for the Pluto:
    - Invisibility granted by the helm.
    - Repairing / Reanimating of broken Man Machines / Lorica Faulta
    - Sacrificing itself to drag an enemy unit to Hades
    - Accompanied by the hound, Cerberus or riding in a four-horse chariot (unlikely, judging from the size)
    - What else?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:55 No.6437664
    Mechs are heavily armored infantry
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)02:55 No.6437676
    In form, yes.
    >> Warpspasm 10/26/09(Mon)03:00 No.6437713
    And that is my exact question. It seems we've made progress, but I have't really seen anything concrete. Some overall faction details but nothing really special.

    Oh and maybe we shoudl start getting some crunch down.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:00 No.6437720
    We should definitely start moving on crunch, agreed.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:03 No.6437759
    And this is where everyone loses interest.

    "Oh yay! Let's make up stories about these awesome fucking mecha! Read my story! It's seven pages long and it's fucking awesome! There's so much fluff that if settings were animals, this one would be stuffed! Read m--"
    "Hold on. We need to contribute and actually do some work now - we need some crunch."
    "... Yeah, about that, I gotta go. Bye."
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:06 No.6437778
    I left for a while to hang Joker's henchmen from Gargoyles. What have we worked out so far regarding Crunch?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:08 No.6437793
    Crunch is the important thing now. We've mentioned WHFB, and I'm cool with that, except I feel like the ability ranges are too small. I feel like we won't be adequately able to include both a dude with a bow, and an angel, without them being too similar in power. I mean, if you think about it, if we were to divide the available stats by tier, each one would have only a higher or lower option for each stat. Obviously we're not going to do anything that concrete, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:09 No.6437799
    I'm happy to work on crunch, but I suffer from rules creep. Give me a neat, simple idea, and within 30 minutes too many incidental rules have snuck in and the game's too complex.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:09 No.6437800
         File1256540962.jpg-(251 KB, 593x1000, roman powerarnour.jpg)
    251 KB
    because its easier to com eup with and agree on fluff, and more fun, determining mechanics requires alot of number crunching and playtesting..

    On a side note found this in my image folder, suitable for roman tertiary power armour?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:11 No.6437816
    Crunch means it's time to drum up the fa/tg/uys with university degrees in mathematics.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:14 No.6437853
    I'm an engineer, but unfortunately I have little to no tabletop wargaming experience. What we really need are the people who have experience with these kinds of things.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:20 No.6437917
    Ok, if we're basing this off WHFB, then we'll need some degree of comparison.

    What WHFB unit would a Tertiary mech be closest to in power? Same question for the Secondary and Primaries, though I imagine Primaries will be more like special-characters then units.

    Someone previously mentioned customisable 'Mechs, where some of them could be altered with simple 'Pay X points, get Y bonus' options. That shouldn't be too hard to come up with ideas, though balancing points costs would be irritating.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:21 No.6437927
    Looks a bit on the shiny fancy and modern side, but yeah.

    I'm cool with working on crunch, but I suck balls at balance. also like White-Wolf style dot-ratings and successes type of system a bit too much. I've already had the thought to basically use simplified Exalted combat.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:21 No.6437929
    Im in for the crunch, though I'm only really familiar with gameswork shop wargames
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:22 No.6437937
    I have an idea. Whether or not this idea has any real application to large-scale wargames, I have no idea, someone who knows their shit should check me on this.

    I don't remember much from the Cthulhutech rules (because my group studiously avoided the game we had planned for like 2 months), but I do remember one thing that stuck out: scaling rules. Vehicles had a wound scale that was different from infantry by like 50x; you had to do 50 infantry damage to equal 1 vehicle damage, etc. What I'm proposing is a scale for damage along these lines based on unit tier. Not to that scale, of course, we want infantry to be able to touch vehicles...but maybe 10x per tier. So 10 primary wounds = 100 secondary wounds = 1000 tertiary wounds = 10000 quaternary wounds' worth. This would encourage fighting fire with fire, but also allow some leeway for swarm tactics, which gets ridiculously hard to pull off against tiers two higher.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:23 No.6437945
    I'll probably sculpt some units at a later date. At the moment I'm studying/worrying about exams to expend much time on making stuff.
    Speaking of which... better get back to it
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:26 No.6437963
    The old paladium rulesets used a similar mechanism (Thinking of the robotech stuff here), Standard (or Structural or something) Damage Capacity, and Mega Damage Capacity.

    Also Battletech and Battlespace has standard scale and capital scale damage and armour.
    >> Warpspasm 10/26/09(Mon)03:30 No.6438000
    I'm not sure about that, maybe not differnt types of damage but lesser units would be much more fragile and able to do less damage to higher tier units.
    I'm also in favour of the White Wolf-like dots system
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:30 No.6438006
    Awesome, so there's some precedent for it in wargaming.

    If that's adopted, an easy co-existent idea for setting point values is to have the average PV for the tier be at the same scale as the damage. Better units for a tier will be higher or weaker will be lower, of course, but that can at least be a baseline for the essential PV.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:30 No.6438009
    That... sounds like a bit of a pain to keep track of, tbh. Why not just give higher tier things more wounds and more damage?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:34 No.6438044
    It's the same idea, really. The only real difference is in rounding: worthless attacks won't even make a dent, a concerted effort has to be made to beat the shit out of something beyond your ken. Which seems to be what the fluff is aiming at, unless I read it wrong.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:37 No.6438066
    So the fractional wounds get dropped at the end of the turn? This sounds acceptable to me then.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:38 No.6438073
    Yeah, it would be a bitch if you had to keep up with fractional wounds. Sorry for the lack of clarification.
    >> Warpspasm 10/26/09(Mon)03:38 No.6438077
    Possibly calculate damage done from the total per round. Maybe for every x damage they get a marker/wound/damage point, end of the round add up the markers, where exactly to go from there I don't know
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:41 No.6438100
    Deal the damage is where you go from that, of course!

    Which begs the question: how exactly is damage for any given unit going to work? And what kind of attributes do we want to use for units?
    >> Warpspasm 10/26/09(Mon)03:44 No.6438129
    Well seems to me we have two major options:
    Numerical Pool or Points. Vote?
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:45 No.6438134
    Maybe causing damage will be linked to the size comparisons between the units?

    Rough numbers, causing a wound happens on a 4,5 or 6.
    For every step larger in size the unit is to you (light infantry, heavy infantry, Tertiary, Secondary, Primary) the required to-wound number moves up by one (and conversely, for every step smaller the required to-wound number moves down).

    Some units have weapons rated to cause damage to larger units (siege weapons, great weapons, etc) so sound as a single (or more, for siege weapons) move in the attackers favor.

    So a unit of Light Infantry would wound Heavy infantry on 5-6, tertiary Mechs on 6, and couldn't even hurt Secondary and up. To even harm Primary 'Mechs, you need Tertiary's.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:46 No.6438153
    That's a pretty decent idea too.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:47 No.6438169
    What specifically do you mean between the two?

    Also, voting on an imageboard is a little...silly at best.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:48 No.6438176
    Also, quick question: is this thread in autosage yet? Because if it's not it'll get there soon.
    >> Willing Cruncher 10/26/09(Mon)03:54 No.6438240
    I'd be glad to help with the crunch part of this. First I think we need to pick a die system, at least tentatively. We can scale it up later if need be.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)03:55 No.6438253
    It is.
    >> Warpspasm 10/26/09(Mon)03:56 No.6438258
    Well, more of a general show of support. But yeah, a little silly.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)04:00 No.6438313
    Hey guys, I was thinking about the way Christians work with the tiers. I'm thinking, and tertiary christian can be sacrificed during battle to bring an ascendant angel into play. This allows you to pretty much play the angel whenever you want - though there should probably be a few requirements: takes a full turn, can't be in melee - but this is still a bit of an advantage. Thus, give angels few wounds. If it takes ten attacks to inflict a single wound from tertiaries, 1-3 should be enough. Of course, that'll hardly hold out against Man Machines for very long. Perhaps some sort of limited effect to defend itself in other ways? I dunno.

    The other thing is the heralds. What 'm thinking is, roll a die for each tertiary christian who dies. add the results of those rolls up. At the end of each turn, halve the number from that turn. When you hit the target number, the Herald comes.

    The following is an example: You paid for the angel Malachi. His target number is (let's say) 32.
    You start play without him. First turn, you lose two Christians, roll two dice. Let's say that's an 8. Eight isn't enough, so at the end of your turn, it becomes four. Next turn, you lose one christian to a lucky shot. Roll a 5. 5+8 = 13. Not enough. At the end of your turn, the five halves. Now it's 2+8, leaving you at 10. Your Christians charge, you lose six of them. Roll 6d6. Get 23. 23+10=33. That's enough. Malachi comes into play within his move distance from one of your units.

    Obviously, he would cost less to help cancel out this inconvenient way of getting him into play.
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)04:01 No.6438324
    New thread: >>6438315
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)04:01 No.6438325
    id say basic questions are
    -what kinda of dice (d6 d10 both more other?)
    -did you guys decide on hex or more like WH? (i've always liked the guessing range element to WHFB)
    -how do armies compile what i mean is are there "core" units are there HQ/Heroes/whatever other systems i dunno anything about call them, which units are squad based
    -how many minis do u want on the board are we talkin WHFB, 40K or warmachine
    -if we're goin WHFB is there a magic element (u dont need to fill it out exactly yet spellcasters can always be added after the primary secondary, etc things are figured out but it should be clear if the phase is useable in development or not)
    >> Anonymous 10/26/09(Mon)04:09 No.6438409
    wound. Same as WoD and Warhamms.

    For that, we'd want an actual numeric size stat, not just going by categories that don't necessarily correlate to size. We'd end up wanting a power stat and a toughness stat anyways, though, to represent things that have power not directly related to stature. Thus using size in this fashion becomes pointless.

    d10? Normally I'd prefer d6, but it seems a bit small for this. So does d10, to be honest...

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