I'm really impressed by the momentum on this project. Great job, everyone.

The pluto god machine writefaggotry was fun, so I made this. Keep up the good work everyone!

current debate:
Shields: modify attackers to-hit roll by -1 or increase models size by 1 for defensive purposes?

increasing size would only help vs larger opponents since minimum damage is 1. -1 modifier on attackers to-hit roll gives equal protection from everything.

>>6489334
Shields are more ablative than soaking. I vote for penalty to to-hit.

>>6489395
agreed

Hmmm, the archive seems to be missing the last few posts, so was anything decided on my idea of a long range volley shot for longbows
range say 36 inches, fire doesn't need line of sight but a friendly does, -1 to hit and firing unit can't have moved that turn

>>6489431
In keeping with that, maybe armor does the size increase for defense deal?

>>6489476
yes, though that does produce the slightly odd result of been no benefit against things the same size or 1 bigger, but the huge stuff does less damage.

>>6489317

I'm hoping we can get enough crunch down by Friday, as somefag said that they would attempt to sucke... I mean CONVINCE his gaming group to playtest.

>>6489525
I could probably convince my roommate to try it out.

>>6489525
that was me, i'm an ausfag so its already friday here, but there's also a games club I haven't been too in ages meeting on monday I can show this too so there's no need to make this a rush job.

>>6489474
before we decide on volleys we need to discuss how many models in a unit can actually attack. If only the first rank (or 2nd and 3rd as well if they have spears/pikes) can attack in close combat, then obviously the advantage of archers would be the fact that every model can shoot, which is a volley in and of itself.

>>6489584
while I agree on the ranks things, I thought we where gonna have fodder can only make formations in certain factions, so other factions fodder won't have ranks at all

>>6489637
One question is, how's it gonna work in general, much less with fodder?

>>6489637
how it works in WHFB: when units enter into close combat they form ranks, just for the ease of seeing how many models attack. They don't get any benefits from forming ranks though.

>>6489583

Fair enough, and good to know. By all means, crunch people, keep doing your thing. My only valuable input is when the rules seem to run contrary to the intended function. I'm all fluff, no substance.

Speaking of, moar incoming writefaggotry later this evening.

>>6489683
Is there some limit to the number that can fill the front line?

>>6489732
front line is determined by how many files make up a rank. A formation of 5 files is 5 models wide. Most formations are usually kept at this size to make them easier to move and less of a target for archers and charges. Only models in base to base contact with the enemy make attacks. For example, if you charge a formation of 10 files with a formation of only 5, only the 5 models in base to base contact can attack.

>>6489325
Speaking as the writefag, I'm quite impressed.
Less red though.
Did we ever decide what the different God Machines would do?
Here's my thoughts
MARS: Blood everywhere
MINERVA: Strategic shit
NEPTUNE: Naval battle. Possibly riding a chariot pulled by seahorses. but badass ones
JUPITER: fucks anything that moves. or fucks them up, whatever
PLUTO: stealth, as much as a giant suit of armor can anyway
JUNO: ???
DIANA: ???
PHOEBUS: god of music, so face melting (literally) lyre solos.

>>6490001

Old news, and poor choice for trolling.

I suggest the good ol ICB if you are gonna do that.

>>6489980
some one suggested

Volcanus Machina: M6 W3 I4 L9 S
Martius Machina: M4 W4 I3 L9 S3
(Martius would have options for more offense, while Vulcanus would get more defense)

in the last thread

>>6489980
Diana: Can phase through trees, snipan.

>Only models in base to base contact with the enemy make attacks.

That answers my question.

>>6490050

This brings to light one significant absence that had been bugging me: a distinct lack of SNIPAN, STEALTHAN, or other sneaky fuckery. Is that atypical for TT gaming?

>>6490096
How much effort does it take to switch rank/file numbers mid-fight?

>>6490113
How would you represent stealth?

>>6490050
I like this idea.

How about the secondaries. They're named after minor gods and such, but do they get any special powers?
-Nyx: Goddess of Night, she can reduce visibility for the enemies
-Thanatos: high crit chance
-Mars is always followed by Phobos (fear) and Deimos (terror), who make the enemy afraid.
-Hypnos: can make enemy loose a turn b/c they're asleep
-Proteus: cannot be grabbed.
-Morpheus: makes them attack things that aren't there.

>>6490063

Lies. I've never had a meaningful, lasting relationship that started with us being friends/acquaintances/co-workers/whatever. Straight to dating.

Also: ...these comics make me feel sad inside...

>>6490124

I have no fucking clue. How do other TT systems handle it?

>>6490119
impossible to do so. you can only change formation with a reform move, which is done during the movement phase. HOWEVER, as most units will be skirmishers, they move without any set formation. It should be said that in WHFB a unit of skirmishers can't flow around a formation to put models in base to base contact on the sides, as it would fuck with the flanking rules. If the majority of the unit is to the front, it forms ranks against the front of the enemy unit. if the majority of the unit attacks from the flanks, it forms ranks at the flanks. The number of models able to attack are set by how wide (or long in the case of flanks) the defending formation is.

>>6490182
infiltrators and scouts.

after all units are placed on the battlefield, but before the game start, players place infiltrators. these models/units can be placed anywhere on the table instead of just inside the players deployment zone, but they can't be within 18" of the enemy, or within 12" if there isn't a LoS on them.

Scouts generally enter the battlefield from either side of the table mid-way through the battle.

>>6490202
So let's say two units start the round face-to-face, having clashed last round. Can they reform during the next round during movement phase to approach the enemy on whatever terms they wish to set?

>>6490256
unless one of them broke the round before they are still considered to be in close combat.

>>6490219
What benefit do they grant? Spotting for range? And what stops an enemy from attacking them (hence the stealth part of it)?

>>6490271
Got it.

>>6490219

Would these rules adapt well to what we've got here? I can see some definite applications here, especially for units like the Woaden.

>>6490278
since they are placed AFTER the rest of the units are placed on the table, you can put them exactly where you need them to kill some squishy enemy unit, or to hit them from their flanks. It causes the enemy to react to you and change his game plan.

>>6490278
well for ranged attacks it could be worked like night fighting rules: roll 3d6 (2d10 in this case I guess), if the number is less than the distance to the target then they can't see it and all attacks miss.

>>6490343
Ah, I missed the "after" part.

I could definitely see this with some units. Some variant of that on the Pluto GM would probably be fucking brutal.

>>6490388
For units who can't see their target due to some obstruction, sure.

For the different Roman primary models, I'd go with:

Romulus - General melee fightan, but incredibly badass at it. Much higher point cost than other primaries.
Jupiter - Short ranged lightning attacks
Mars - Accompanied by Phobos and Deimos, causes fear.
Diana - Long ranged sniper.
Apollo - Is capable of dealing mediocre fire damage in melee. His main draw is that he provides uplifting music that gives a big boost to all Roman units on the battlefield (and maybe makes units with 6 inches unbreakable).
Mercury - Very fast and provides a movement bonus to Roman units on the battlefield.
Minerva - Good melee unit, provides a bonus to Roman units in formation
Vulcan - Wields a large hammer that also does fire damage. Man Machines are more effective.
Sol Invictus - A lot of fire. More fire.

>>6490391

Yah, that would generate several "suddenly, FLANKING RAPE" scenarios.

>>6490495
Well, we don't have flanking rules to my memory, except regarding formations. But regardless, "suddenly, enemy Primary in my goddamn face" is a pretty bad way to start the match.

>>6490447
>Romulus - General melee fightan, but incredibly badass at it. Much higher point cost than other primaries.

Might need to add something more to the Romulus model to make it worthy of being named after the founder of Rome (and being piloted by the Emperor).

Maybe throw in a significant morale boost, since no one will want to let down either Romulus or the piloting Caesar. Maybe a small hit to enemy morale because enemies are aware that shit just got serious.

>>6490447
>Romulus

In the fluff Romulus is Ceasar's personal God Machine. that would be like fielding The God-Emperor in a game of 40k.

>>6490543

Not quite.

Caesar, and his mech, are the two most badass tings in the entire Roman Empire, but I don't think they're on the level of 40k's God-Emperor.

After all, the only thing special about Caesar himself is that he's kept ageless by the gods. He's not the god-tier psyker that the God Emperor is/was.

>>6490543

Maybe add the requirement that it can only be fielded in battles with a point value of more than 3-4000 points? So he's only taking part in battles large enough to be worth his time.

>>6490609

I agree with something along the lines of this. You shouldn't be busting out Atilla, Boudica, Caesar, John, Sima Yi - Zhuge Liang - whoever unless you're playing an epic-level game.

>>6490609
that sounds good, maybe even up the Romulus mechs size by one because it is the figurehead mech of the entirety or rome.

on a side note, I think we should all the god machine variants to have for the most part the same stats and the variation is in their special ability/abilities

>>6490734

Well, of the major leaders, I think Caesar is going to be the only one who'd be potentially imbalanced in smaller matches because of his mech.

The other leaders don't have the same advantage. Attila, for example, might be the most powerful Hun, but he'd still probably only be a Secondary at most, since he's still mostly human.

>>6490835
how about we just leave the leaders out of it for now. they are a completely different animal.

Guys why does each god have their own machina?

I think that we should only give the gods with metal or warlike 'domains' machina.

I mean Mercury is the god of commerce and travel for God's sake.

Jupiter, Vulcan, Mars, and Apollo.
Magic, defensive, offensive, and ranged respectably.

>>6490918
agreed
thats a good amount of variation, if people want to play with a different god just counts as

>>6490918

I agree with this, but I second >>6490872 on moving along and not focusing on leaders at the moment. They're all going to be broken in their own special way.

I'm envisioning a JUST AS PLANNED bonus for Sima Yi / Zhuge Liang, maybe the Chinese would place their units last every time... Okay, I'm stopping now. Moving right along...

MERCENARY UNITS! Start with bear cavalry. Aaaaand GO.

>>6490918

Well, part of it has to do with increasing variety and part of it has to do with the idea that the Primaries are just as much a way to honor the gods as they are to be war machines. When you throw in the fact that the gods are real, and you remember just how vain the Greco-Roman gods were, I think it'd be safe to say that most of the important gods would get their own Primary, even if it isn't used very much.

I think Diana would be a better ranged Primary than Apollo, since she was goddess of the hunt and he the god of poetry.

>>6491035
god machines are made by the gods for war, not people.

>>6491085

That doesn't change the fact that every other god is going to be bitching at Vulcan because they want one of their own.

Ceres knocks on Vulcans door one day, "I want you to style a God Machine after me."

Vulcan looking incredulous replies, "But you're the goddess of plants and the harvest. Why on earth would I make a colossal weapon of war based on you? What would it do, throw flowers at the enemy?"

Ceres, looking incredibly pissed off yells, "Because if you don't I'm going to fuck up the seasons again like I did when Pluto took my daughter!"

And so Ceres got a God Machine.

>>6491001
their a tertiary right?
probably moderately fast, the bears feral instincts gives it a decent I, they're frigin bears, and even if you drop the rider they're still gonna do some damage.
so M:5 W:2 I5 L:? S:1 (or do we want them to be fuck huge dire bears?)

>>6491153

Fuck huge dire bears ridden by rough and tumble vodka drinking men with really big pointy things (they aren't sure what type of weapon they're wielding because it's hard to see after drinking that much).

The bears maul things while the Rus guy on top swings his large pointy thing around. So you get a shock cavalry unit that's good at mauling things and breaking up formations.

>>6491153

I really hate to call them tertiaries, as that means that every secondary in the book is going to roll them with minimal effort. Shoggoth or no, man / old one hybrid -vs- BEAR CAVALRY?

And "dire bear" might be a bit much. Think something in the size range of a fully-grown grizzly or a kodiak.

Would Vulcan even get a God Machine? or would he just make one that made more god machines, so he got some time off?

Norsemen:
Specialists through and through. They wield oversized weapons and are pretty much tailored to take down mechs. As mercenaries, their primary motivation is money, but, compared to other mercenaries, they have a big thing for honor and think that dying in combat gets them into Valhalla. So, I'd say they have a small unit size (6 or so models). They count as being two sizes larger, and as being secondaries for purposes of attacking and defending - but ONLY against units that are larger than them. 4M 1W 6L 6I 1S

>>6491327
If you were Vulcan, would you NOT make the best god machine in your image?

>>6491203
Special rule: Beer goggles when guessing range.

>>6491341
Very nice. I was considering giving them secondary offense in general, but that's also pretty awesome.

>>6491261
That 2W does help prevent getting completely pantsed fairly well. Also, the priority to lower tier units.

>>6491358

Well, actually, Vulcan tended to be one of the more levelheaded gods in the pantheon.

Of course, I'm not sure that really says a lot considering who his competition is.

>>6491358
Good point, but you have to remember that his father is Jupiter, (or Juno bore him on her own, depending on the story), and Jupiter would probably tell him

"Son, you can have the SECOND best God Machine. I get the first. End of discussion."

Also, I brainstormed the perfect cast for a movie of Classical Mythology a while ago, and I think we can work this in.
Jupiter=Sean Connery
Neptune=Ian MacKellen
Pluto=Christopher Lee
Bacchus=Shatner
Phoebus=David Bowie
Diana=Summer Glau

/tg/, I apologize in advance for any thread derailment, but a project of this magnitude needs a cast to go with it.

>>6491358
Seriously. After pumping out all this shit for Jupiter, he might as well make his own pretty good.

That being said, making it better than Jupiter's strikes me as a bad idea.

>>6491418

Well, secondary offensive in general would make them more of a general attack unit instead of being mech killers.

>>6491434
>Neptune=Ian MacKellen
>Pluto=Christopher Lee

Saruman as Pluto, I can see...but Gandalf as Neptune?

Anyway, back to the thread.

>>6491438
Yeah, I agree with your idea of it. It makes them a lot better at what they're supposed to be good at.

>>6491453
Honestly, Neptune was my friend's idea, I wanted Jimmy Buffet. I don't know why, but that's just what i think of

Anyway, did we ever cover the different types of angels that could be summoned? I want to see some fucking Cherubim and Seraphim. What about Metatron (With the combined voices of Optimus Prime and James Earl Jones)

Jew Mercs:
Golems are dumb, and not very strong, but they will follow their orders unquestioningly to completion or destruction. Cheap units with a high model count (15 maybe more?), 4M 1W 4I 10L 1S


Bedouin:
Camel riding desert nomads who are in it for the money. They won't even dirty their own hands with the blood of battle, instead choosing to employ bound djinn to do the fighting for them. The djinn hurls balls of fire at the enemy. 6M 1W 3I 3L 1S Range 12 inches.

Peri
The Middle Eastern answer to Man Machines, the Peri are formidable fighters, but poorly motivated. 6M 2W 6I 4L S2

I'm not sure what to do with the Gaul mercenaries. What exactly is supposed to be the niche they fill?

>>6491418

Still, you would have to give them some sort of special attribute to make them anti-secondary, which would take some of the specialness away from the Norsemen. Making them a secondary would allow them to combat secondaries on reasonable terms while still WTFRAPEing tertiaries.

>>6491536
I was thinking about that while walking back from class. One easy one is just to make ones based off one of the sets of Archangels. I'm a fan of [Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Anael, Samael, Zadkiel, Kafziel], personally, because they have more distinct themes that we can build on.

>>6491588
That reminds me...

Does anyone actually know what the FUCK Uriel does?

>>6491579
I must have missed the part where they're supposed to be anti-secondary, I thought they were just general tanky tertiary cavalry. If they're supposed to be anti-secondary, that makes perfect sense.

>>6491599
Nobody can ever agree on what Uriel does. He's pretty much the "that guy" of the archangels.

>>6491556
>Cheap units with a high model count (15 maybe more?), 4M 1W 4I 10L 1S

...and the only non-Chinese unit I know of with unbreakable morale.

>I'm not sure what to do with the Gaul mercenaries. What exactly is supposed to be the niche they fill?

Self-buffing, relatively cheap tertiary that can go toe-to-toe with some of the uglier units. Their special mechanic is the ability to chug potions to gain [INSERT EFFECT HERE]. It should also have the drawback that if you double up (chug another potion before the duration's up on the first), you get a substantial chance of oops.

>>6491635
So...marines with stim packs.

AHHH YEAH.

>>6491635
>...and the only non-Chinese unit I know of with unbreakable morale.

Christian Herald has 10L, and Ascendant has 8L (who I'd say should be unbreakable as well, given their whole "physical manifestation of faith" bit)

>>6491608

You're going to have to have some role crossover without straight-up unit cloning. Right now the only designated anti-secondary is the Norseman; that's going to require everyone to field them as tertiaries or lose that role. It makes sense that a crazy drunken fucker riding a bear is a natural for sending after the big boys.

>>6491653

No, LITERALLY unbreakable. Completely immune to fear. Fights until destroyed or ordered otherwise.

>>6491599

Maybe he's the Angel of Death mentioned in other areas.

>>6491616
so he just does the random jobs that no one else wants to do? He does all of heaven's dirty work?
Cool
>>6491588
Dude, Samael was Lucifer before the Fall. He's not really an option.

>>6491713
That is true, assuming we were talking about summoning the angels straight from myth and not whatever we make out of them. It's not like we haven't fucked with the mythology of a situation quite a bit in this thread already.

>>6491741
>in this thread

In this project, I should say.

>>6491713
>Dude, Samael was Lucifer before the Fall. He's not really an option.

Well, IIRC, it wasn't until the New Testament that he became the enemy of God. Since we already completely screwed the whole Jesus thing, it might be possible that he's not malevolent and still under God's thumb.

>>6491797
Still, he's generally considered to be one of the Fallen, so I don't think he's an option. I'd love some actual info to back this up, or to prove me wrong.

>>6491822

Well, at least in Job, while he was antagonistic towards humans, he was still portrayed as being under God's command. After all, while he did all those things to Job, he only did them because God gave the go ahead.

>>6491797

It wasn't even NT, it was Pauline doctrinal decisions and, IIRC, Nicean edict that gave Lucifer his bum rap. If you go back to the Judaic texts, what we know as "the devil" had more of a role as a tester, giving YHWH insight into both sides of a given quandary.

>>6491888

Well, there was that thing about Satan tempting Christ in the desert (though, that could go in with his role as simply testing Jesus to ensure he's legit), and the whole thing with Revelations.

>>6491888
To be fair, most of the NT past Acts is extremely Pauline, for obvious reasons.

What's YHWH? Yahwey?

>>6491918

Revelations is Pauline wankery and should be taken with a Lot's wife-sized pillar of salt. And again, the temptation of Christ was his role as adversary and tester. How do you know that Job is truly faithful to YHWH unless he maintains his faith in the face of hardship? How do you know the same of Christ?

Satan as we understand him is a creation of Christianity a few hundred years post-Christ and was expanded greatly during the Dark Ages when parish priests needed something sufficiently scary to keep the peasants in the churches and not worshiping the old nature deities. Hell, Judaism of 2000 years ago didn't really even believe in a Sheol of torment, but more of a place you go kick around until the end of days.

>>6491976
Yeah. Jews aren't allowed to write the full name, as I recall, so it's abbreviated to that.

>>6491978

Well, given this, I think it's safe to say that the Machina Dei Christians would have a more favorable view of Lucifer, but I still think it'd be hard to get Lucifer on the battlefield to fight for them. If anything, he'd help the Romans as a way of testing the Christians's faith.

>>6492069
Give him a really high number on the Herald-meter. Thus, he's testing the Christians' resolve in the face of death.

Flavor text for some special Christian weapon: Satan tested, YHWH approved.

Why not for Lucifer have an upkeep type of deal? Like you must have passed X on the herald meter or lucifer determines you are not worthy and does nothing that turn? Say start at 30 then every turn its +5, so if he comes in on turn 4 on turn 5 you need 35, turn 6 40, etc.

Call it "Test of Faith: Martyrdom" or something sacrificial sounding.

This may sound a little dickish, but wouldn't it be better if chance (read: the will of YHWH) determined what Herald you get? Have a static number, point cost, and base set of stats / specials that apply across all Heralds, and you roll to see which specific one you summon. Have each one have one, max two unit-specific specials so that there really is no "gimp" choice. The only persons that would really get shafted would be the anal-retentive, "but I specifically have the MICHAEL miniature, why can't I just summon him every time?" neckbeards.

>>6492444
>The only persons that would really get shafted would be the anal-retentive, "but I specifically have the MICHAEL miniature, why can't I just summon him every time?" neckbeards.

Um, no. The main people who would get shafted would be the players who play Christians, because they can't tailor their primaries to their tactics, whereas every other faction could. Also, because it can make games hinge on unbuffered randomness.

>>6492637
>Um, no. The main people who would get shafted would be the players who play Christians, because they can't tailor their primaries to their tactics, whereas every other faction could. Also, because it can make games hinge on unbuffered randomness.

Even with the vast majority of their stats and specials being uniform across all selections? You would still get roughly identical units, but this one can do Pillar of Fire, this one has Pillar of Salt, this one has Plague of Locusts, this one Clarion Call, etc.

>>6492692
Emphasis:

>because they can't tailor their primaries to their tactics

Being close to one another in abilities only reinforces the point.

>>6492718

Fair enough. Fluff takes a back seat to functionality. That's why I'm posing questions to the TT people instead of actually making any sort of crunchy rules.

>>6492760
It was definitely a good thought fluffwise, but as far as crunch, it's an option I can't see many people really liking.

Ok. So we need some special abilities and options for things, a lot of units are still missing them.

A few ideas for 'upgrades'.

Wouldn't it make sense for the Primaries to be capable of truly incredible feats of strength? For example, the strongest of the strongest would be able to grasp the terrain itself - and throw it about.

For example, if a [Primary] with this strength upgrade and free hands comes across a small piece of impassable terrain, it is capable of throwing that piece of terrain Sd6 inches, where S is the model's size.
The terrain can be thrown to an area within that distance, where it does damage relevant to the Primary's tier and size beneath a template. The terrain is also moved to this new location.
Sure, Angels and God Machines are unlikely to resort to such foul, uncouth tactics - but Treemen and Old Ones are violent and wild enough to do so.

>>6493736
We use d10s. But that's a great idea. It should only work with certain types of impassable terrain, though -- I can't really see a Treeman picking up a lake and chucking it at someone.

Hell, that fits pretty well with the Treemen's "tanking shit/changing battlefield conditions" deal.

In the wiki, under the Woaden, we still have these abilities listed:
>Woaden Team with Druid - the druid can provide defensive and speed buffs to the group
>Fae Blessed Woaden Team - this team has constant benefit of being under the watchful eyes of the eye, protecting them by tricking their would be attackers
>Nature Blessed Woaden Team - this team has the benefit of being under the protection nature spirits protection, so as long they remain significant vegetation it will work to hinder their enemies

Let's try to flesh these out a bit more based upon what we've determined about the system.

The first: We figured awhile back that the Treemen were basically directed by Druids. Thus, this ability can be either a Treeman aura or a buff that's activated within the presence of a Treeman (it's really a question of chicken-or-egg). I'd lean toward Treeman aura, personally, because it makes more sense. With regards to the effect, taking damage as one size higher and gaining one more attack for each model in the radius sounds very reasonable.

The second: We talked earlier in the thread about adopting the WHFB stealth rules for certain units. Perhaps we can give them a version of that, limited to being placed within a certain distance of natural obstacles.

The last we covered early on, when we decided to give the Celts a little boost when starting the turn within a certain distance of forests. I believe we had said initiative, but considering that they have the highest initiative for their tier already, that's a bit silly. The mechanic is solid, though.

>>6493925
I meant reasonably small stuff - such as trees, shrines, rocks, rubble piles and small buildings.

Heck, just like Flames of War, you could even pay to include your own terrain. Perhaps have your Treeman start with a piece of terrain in its hands.

Besides, nothing quite says 'barbaric savages' like hollering Treemen filling a mountain pass with debris as the Romans desperately try to battle them off and make their way through before it's blocked.

>>6494154
I agree, it's a fucking awesome image.

>>6494154
>Big Rock

>Treemen with this option enter the battle with a Big Rock. this can be thrown at an enemy unit, with all tiers counting as the same for to-hit purposes. If a blow is landed, the unit takes 1d10 damage. Single Use Only.

>>6494373
>1d10 damage
>(enough, on average, to one-shot any Primary)

>>6494373

I'd go with "hurl boulder", and your damage on that is fucking insane. Oh, and you need a range.

>>6494400
just throwing numbers out there. Plus it's only same tier, so it's 5+ to hit base. size remains the same. Maybe have the boulder be size 2 of some such.

>>6494422
12"

>>6494466
or hell, have the struck model/unit deduct their size from the damage. so a treeman rolls a 7 for damage and size 5 primary gets hit with it, it means the primary only takes 2 wounds.

>>6490835
Attila was the first Hun to join with a Spirit Kin. He is literally the oldest of the Old Ones.

>>6491261
A Grizzly is a Dire Bear, essentially. They're both the huge, monstrous version of an otherwise fairly reasonable animal.

>>6494373
No.

Use templates, like the other war games do. There are plenty of things in the Machina Dei universe that could survive a blow from a boulder.

Also, the "Big Rock" should be a bonus upgrade that you can pick after taking the "Burly Limbs" upgrade.

"Burly Limbs" gives a Treeman the ability to pick up certain terrain counters. They can then place a small blast template over a location within 2d10 inches, perhaps with scattering. All models beneath these blast template are treated as if they have been attacked by the treeman. After damage is resolved, place the terrain counter that was picked up in the centre of the blast template.
"Big Rock" allows the Treeman to start off carrying a terrain counter.

Boudica probably has a looted God Machine.
Lu Bu is the flying general. I'm expecting thanks to Chinese mysticism, he can now actually fly and spit fire.
Indians have FUCKING GODS.
Christans... Well, that's why they're rebels.

>>6495941
Christians have Paul, who has had his body parts replaced so much that at this point he is basically a font of divine power with a head.

>>6495489
That's far more reasonable. I'd prefer a static range with a smaller range of error (like 5 + 1d10"), personally, so the awesome fucking Primary ability isn't going to completely whiff when you roll snake eyes.

>>6494532
>Attila was the first Hun to join with a Spirit Kin. He is literally the oldest of the Old Ones

I don't think any of the Huns have been around long enough to really merit being called Old Ones, and I think it'd be more fitting if the Old Ones were old in the cosmic sense. Beings powerful enough to be considered gods by the Huns, that have made a portion of their vast selves present on earth.

>>6495941
>Boudica probably has a looted God Machine.

That sorta runs counter to the fluff we've built for God Machines thus far. They're only supposed to be pilotable by Romans.

>>6496648
Besides, Boudica doesn't need to have stolen other people's shit to be awesome.

>>6495941
Azrael is the Angel of Death, and Uriel was the Angel who safeguarded the sun, and guards the passage way of Heaven to Earth.

Lucifer had to sneak past him when tempting Adam and Eve.

Boudica has struck me more as being just an intelligent commander. She doesn't win because of hax skills as much as because she's smart and has a firm grasp of strategy, combined with the charisma needed to rally people around her.

It's a moot point, anyway, since we've agreed we're not doing leaders until after everything else is through

Possible herald?

>>6496901
What the fuck am I looking at.

>>6497077
The guy who created FATAL.

>>6497116
That certainly explains a few things.

>>6495489
So for Treemen we have:
-Regeneration (Root in ability, regenerate 1W/turn, magic action)
-Vines (Root in ability, halve one unit's speed per turn, magic action)
-Burly Limbs (Can pick up terrain below a certain size and throw it; maybe a damage boost as well?)
--Big Rock (Start with a piece of terrain in-hand)

Some more root-in options would be nice.

>>6497644
Maybe we can have them do something like root in and animate a tree section to fight? It would have to take up their magic action every round to maintain it, and it would be treated as a unit of no-equipment Taken Machines, with model number equal to the size of the stand of trees.

Uh.. guys? terrain in tabletop games is area terrain. Meaning it has a large base to represent the borders of it and maybe, if a forest, only 2 or 3 actual trees.

Picking up and throwing terrain is a bad idea in tabletop games.

>>6497644
>-Regeneration (Root in ability, regenerate 1W/turn, magic action)

We might want to make it so that if the treeman is attacked, he'll cease regenerating and not gain the 1W he would have for that turn.

>>6497077
>>6497116

FATAL was made by an Old One?

>>6498261
Alright. Maybe have them generally gain a ranged attack, with different bonuses based on the type of nearby geography?

>>6499030
Alternatively, he just can't attack or counterattack that round.

>>6499630
make him give up his movement phase, only last for that round. We really don't need an entire magic phase. magic attacks can take place in the shooting phase, or replace a models normal attacks in the close combat phase.

>>6499776
We already agreed on a magic phase, because it makes the primaries more of a threat (action economy and all).

>>6497644
Regeneration is fine. Remove Burly Limbs - adding my twist on the rest.

Constricting Vines: Root in ability - treeman rolls to hit a target unit. If the target is hit, it moves at half movement and it counts as one tier less for the purpose of being hit by anything except constricting vines.
Big Rock: Treeman starts with a big rock that it can throw. It's like a standard attack, but it's a template. One use only.

New ideas:
Ancient: Perhaps +1 Size?
Hollow: Root in ability- conceals an allied quarterly or tertiary unit that is in base contact with the treeman, rendering it immune to attack as long as the treeman is rooted.
Picts in the Branches: Whether rooted or not, each turn the treeman is capable of making 1d10 S1 shortbow attacks with the strength of a quarterly tier unit.

>>6501012
have the treeman able to pick up more objects to throw, but it has to be in or adjacent to some suitable terrain (so not a lake), also it spends its move action picking up the big heavy object.

>>6501012
Generally agreed about Burly Limbs. Burly Limbs would be a fucking awesome idea if this weren't tabletop-based, but unfortunately it is.

Picts in the Branches is just bad. As it stands, they literally are doing nothing. Average 5.5 dudes shooting at 50% accuracy = all of 2.75 damage; since they're considered quaternaries, it takes 5 damage to wound a tertiary. It needs a significant boost to be worth anything.

Ancient is pretty boring. It's basically just a +1 damage ability to anything 1 or more sizes lower. If you do include that, it should be dirt cheap.

For Hollow, can the unit still attack from within at range?

>>6501396
One idea for Picts is to make it 1d10/2 attacks, but tertiary damage. It still wouldn't do much, but it'd be better than nothing.

>>6501012
>conceals an allied quarterly or tertiary unit that is in base contact with the treeman, rendering it immune to attack as long as the treeman is rooted.

A Celt army with several Treemen with that ability and Regeneration would be amazingly annoying and hard to kill. Just leapfrog forward (think Siege Tanks in Starcraft) while arrowing the shit out of the enemy.

>>6502611
Screen with Taken Machines to taste.

What do you guys think of high-cost, entire army bonuses?

This is just an example but whatever:
Christian: Divine Intervention: The player may reroll any X rolls over the course of the game.

>>6503016
I like the general idea, but the execution would have to be quite careful.

>>6497644
Alright, compiling what we've talked about since:

-Regeneration (Root in ability, regenerate 1W/turn, cannot melee, loses counterattack. Magic action)
-Constricting Vines (Root in ability, Treeman may attack 1 unit within 12"; if successful; target unit takes no damage, but loses 1/2 move and is counted as a tier less for to-hit until the next magic phase. Magic action)
-Ancient (+1 Size)
-Hollow (Root in ability, one tertiary/fodder unit next to the Treeman is immune to attack so long as they are next to the Treeman and the Treeman is rooted in)
-Picts in the Branches (Treeman gets a ranged shortbow attack (1d10 attacks, S1, quaternary tier)

Concerns so far:

-Hollow is abusable as currently written
-Picts in the Branches is incredibly weak

>>6501012
>Hollow: Root in ability- conceals an allied quarterly or tertiary unit that is in base contact with the treeman, rendering it immune to attack as long as the treeman is rooted.

I dunno, that seems like it could potentially be very imbalanced / prone to exploitation.

>>6503016
>What do you guys think of high-cost, entire army bonuses?

Sure, I'll have it.

Though, as >>6503215 has pointed out, balancing it would be difficult.

>>6503494
My ideas for Hollow and Picts in the Branches: combine them.

First, take Root in off of Hollow. Allow the unit who is hidden to move with the Treeman in question if the Treeman moves, but require half the unit's move be spent to start or stop hiding. While hiding in the Treeman, a unit may make ranged attacks; however, only half the unit may attack. While carrying a unit, a Treeman have move reduced by 1", receives a -1 penalty to to-hit, and units attack it at +1.

If the Treeman is destroyed, routed, or breaks while a unit is hiding, roll 1d10; [roll x 10]% of the unit survives (round up), and is placed where the Treeman was when it broke or was destroyed. This can force morale checks for breaking or routing as normal for damage dealt in a single incident.

(TLDR: Treemen use this to become APCs, at the cost of making themselves more vulnerable and less able to attack)

Thoughts?

>>6503623

I'd stiffen the penalty to the treeman's offense a bit, but other than that, it looks good.

>>6503697
-1 penalty to hit and damage sound good?

give the treeman a transport capacity of say..10 models.

Only units that number 10 or less models can be transported. prevents lol40models popping out in your flank.

>>6503748
also, the unit doesn't just stay next to the treeman, the unit is placed aside while it's being transported. less confusion of it won't block movement or line of sight.

>>6503748
I figured that was already in the system, due to Woaden having a unit cap at like 10-15, but I completely forgot about fodder. You're absolutely right, let's cap it at whatever the Woaden unit cap is.

>>6503748
>>6503724
>>6503623

This looks good.

>>6503762
Also a good idea. I figured keeping the unit next to the Treeman would make it easier to keep track of, but line of sight does present an issue.

So.

Hollow:

A number of models (no more than [Woaden unit cap] models) may "hide" inside the Treeman, effectively being transported and protected from attack. A unit may spend half its move during the movement phase to be hidden; that unit is placed aside during transportation. The same unit may make ranged attacks while being transported, but can only make half the total attacks that the unit normally would be able to. The unit may spend half its movement to end transportation, and is placed touching the Treeman's base on any side (centered with the Treeman).

While transporting units, the Treeman takes penalties of -1M, -1 to-hit, and -1 damage. Additionally, enemy units receive +1 to-hit against the Treeman. If the Treeman is destroyed, routed, or breaks while a unit is hiding, roll 1d10; [roll x 10]% of the unit survives (round up), and is placed where the Treeman was when it broke or was destroyed. This can force morale checks for breaking or routing as normal for damage dealt in a single incident.

>>6493925
>Treeman picking up a lake

Why the fuck not? The Celts are crazy enough to do that shit.

>>6504224
Because it's a serious pain in the ass to deal with as far as moving the terrain effects.

Good work today /tg/, here is some Attila the Hun sketchfaggotry.

>>6504827

Needs a bit more eldritch monstrosity. I'm thinking right arm has acid lobbing thing, left arm is a sword/spear thing, and his entire lower body is replaced.

>>6504827
It's not over yet, man. Let's keep up the pace.

OK. So we at least have some Treeman abilities nailed the fuck down. Awesome.

With regards to the God Machines, I'd say the only ones we've really confirmed for 100% definite are Jupiter, Vulcan, and Mars. I like the idea of keeping shit limited, but at the same time we should have a few more, maybe 6 at the most. I'd argue for Neptune, Pluto, and Diana, personally, as those all seem the most warlike or significant (The 3 brothers, the war god, the huntress goddess, and the blacksmith). I figure these should vary mostly by specials, but some by ability (Neptune should be high-M due to the cavalry patronage, Diana has a ranged attack, Mars is the fucking man in melee, etc.) By and large, though, these should fit the general statline (8M 3W 6I 7L 3S).

So what specials can we give them? Here are a few of my thoughts so far: (continued, post was way too fucking long)

Jupiter: Lightning, duh. I'm a fan of it being an unavoidable wound at a high range, something like that. Perhaps he can create a storm at range X over area Y to slow down units/have a chance of them getting struck by lightning.

Neptune: Not sure what to give him. I'd say make him a water-based mech, but we don't really have any setup for sea battles (yet?). The easy answer is to give him shit to do with controlling water terrain on-field, but that's boring and useless if there isn't any. Maybe he can create a stream of length X that has to touch a border? Normally it just doubles the move required to cross it, but he can flood the banks to potentially destroy/damage/hamper enemy units. I'm not sure. I'd also say give cavalry near him a significant boost, for what it's worth (not much, considering neither the LF or the Man Machines are cavalry, but I guess it could be useful for fodder).

Pluto: Stealth, as described earlier in the thread, sounds pretty kickass for this one. Maybe he can bamf-teleport around by going through the underworld (can ignore units in his path as flying, etc) -- that would synergize like a motherfucker with the stealth deal.

Vulcan: Support for armored units. All of them gain an effective +2 size bonus for being within whatever radius. One designated unit (designated through magic action) gets +1 damage as well. The thing is, though, he can't get his own bonuses (or bonuses from other Vulcans in the case of stacking).

Mars: You don't get in this motherfucker's way. His damage, number of attacks, initiative, and morale are all fucking badass. The thing is, that's all he does -- he doesn't have any special abilities, just a lot of SMASH YOUR FACE IN.

Diana: Ranged awesomeness. She's the Roman answer to Jade Wagons, but without the ammo limit. Her shots should cut through lower-tier units like a hot knife through butter. Maybe her magic can be buffing the shots in various ways (always kill at least one model if Secondary tier or lower, upping damage, AOE).

Since Neptune is primarily the god of the sea, I'd argue against his inclusion. Instead I'd say that we should go with Apollo. As the god of medicine and music, he would be a good support primary focused on morale boosting and healing.

posted earlier:
Volcanus Machina M6 W3 I6 L7 A2 S3
Martius Machina M4 W4 I5 L8 A3 S4

Special Rules:
Standard of Divinity: Friendly units within 6” of the Deus Machina may reroll any failed Morale tests. Additionally, any friendly unit within 12” adds +1 to their Combat Resolution score.

Strength of Vulcan: As the god of the forge is the patron of this Deus Machina, its armour is marked by unwordly strength. Any attacks made against it have to-hit roll modified by -1. This rule only applies to Volcanus Machina.

Strength of Mars: Watched over by the god of war, this Deus Machina surges with martial power. Attacks made by this model have its to-hit roll modified by +1. This rule only applies to Martius Machina.

Terror: To behold the sight of these towering machines is to know the finest warriors of the Empire have come to destroy you. This unit causes Terror

>>6505177
Sounds like a plan. I wanted Neptune to work because he was one of the 3 brothers, but that's not gonna happen. Let's just say Neptunes operate at sea and don't affect what we're doing here.

Apollo: support character. He has a weak ranged attack normally, but he's mostly useful because he can erase up to 2W total from models in a single unit (magic action); however, he can't heal himself. This would mostly be useful for secondaries and other primaries. If he isn't healing, he can give units within X radius a 2L boost.

Hey /tg/. I love the idea of Siddhi Monks and wanted to do some work on their upgraded abilities. Gunna post some of the work I've been doing, please give me some feedback. I've never played a tabletop game before in my life, so I just read the 1d4chan entry on Machina Dei and tried to work around the stats in there. Anyway, I'll just post this shit and you guys fire away. Namefagging it up for now.

>Terror: To behold the sight of these towering machines is to know the finest warriors of the Empire have come to destroy you. This unit causes Terror

Well, if we use that justification, wouldn't all primaries cause terror? With maybe the exception of the treemen.

>>6505234

Siddhis aren't merely "upgrades" for a unit, they are powers achived through enlightenment from decades of training, meditation, and harmony with oneself, and they should be treated as such. When you think of a Siddi Monk, you shouldn't think of an old guy with a staff, you should think of the protagonist of a goddamn kung fu movie on crack. You should think of Goku in the original Dragon Ball.

I've based everything I've written so far off of the Siddhi as described in the wikipedia article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi

I have written and balanced these things with the idea that all Siddhi skills should come in degrees of 3: 1 represents a newly found Siddhi that the Monk has recently learned. 2 represents a Siddhi that the Monk has trained with for years. 3 represents the absolute plateau you can achive in that particular Siddhi. So, you'll have Haadi Vidya 1, Haadi Vidya 2, and finally, Haadi Vidya 3.

>>6505259

Parkaya Pravesha: Parkaya Pravesh means one’s soul entering into the body of some other person or animal or bird . Through this knowledge even a dead body can be brought to life.

Ingame terms: The Siddhi Monk can revive fallen units with this upgrade. How long the revival takes and how many people may be revived at once depends on the degree of skill the Siddhi Monk has. In order to revive a unit, a Monk must be within melee range of the target friendly unit, and must remain undisturbed for the period in which he concentrates on reviving the target. Taking damage of any sort will disrupt the delicate procedure, and cause the Monk's effort to be wasted.

1 = The Monk can revive one model at a time, with higher tier models taking longer than lower tier ones. At a minimum, it should take one turn to revive tertiary, and two or more to revive secondaries. This tier of Parkaya Pravesha CANNOT revive primaries.

2: The monk can revive multiple models at a time, depending on the tier of the targets. He can revive three or so tertiary units in one turn. He can revive secondaries more quickly, at one model per turn, but he cannot raise more than one secondary model at once. This tier of Parkaya Pravesha can revive Primaries, but it will take a minimum of three turns to do such.

3: The monk can revive dozens of tertiary units in one turn, and six or so secondary units in one turn. Primaries may be revived in two turns, but only one at a time.

>>6505214
That was posted awhile ago, before we mostly standardized the stats/got an idea of what we were doing with Primaries. We can definitely still use parts it though.

Standard of Divinity is a solid generic, maybe lowering the radius for the reroll to 3" would be a plan.

The Vulcan/Mars specials could (and should) mostly just be represented by equipment.

Terror's a bit extreme, because if that's the sole reasoning all of the Primaries should cause it. Fear for the Mars one because of the violence of its attacks might be appropriate, though.

>>6505279

Haadi Vidya: This Vidya or knowledge has been mentioned in several ancient texts. On acquiring this Vidya, a person feels neither hunger nor thirst, and can remain without eating food or drinking water for several days at a stretch

Ingame terms: A Siddhi Monk with mastery over Haadi Vidya has constitution far beyond that of a regular human. His disciplined mind has achived a zen that takes him beyond feelings of pain, and as such can stand firm against wounds that would overwhelm lesser men.

1: Through the might of a body that knows no thirst or hunger, a Siddhi Monk can march farther and faster than men would ordinarily dream. The Siddhi Monk gains 1 point to Movement, making for a total of 9.

2: The Monk's toughened spirit lets him absorb wounds that would cripple less disciplined minds. The Monk gains an additional Wound, giving him 2 instead of the regular 1.

3: The true power of Haadi Vidya flows through this Monk, giving him a toughness normally reserved for the fabled Achilles. For purposes of absorbing damage, this unit is treated as Primary Tier.

>>6505279

I'm not sure we should allow for the revival of models.

>>6505298

Vayu Gaman Siddhi: Through this Siddhi a person can become capable of

flying in the skies and traveling from one place to another in just a few seconds.

Ingame terms: A Siddhi Monk with with the enlightenment of Vayu Gaman Siddhi knows that everything in the world is but a thought away. Through their training, they have learned the art of teleportation.

1: This level of training grants the Siddhi Monk the ability to teleport in any direction at a max distance of half his own movement value. So, with his default value of 8M, a Monk could go at a max distance of 4M, circumventing anything he can perceive. He could use this skill to get around normally unpassable terrain, move past enemy troops to get directly to archers that they are defending, etc.

2: The second level of Vayu Gaman Siddhi grants the Monk the ability to use his full movement value for purposes of teleportation, and in addition grants him a bonus of 1 to movement.

3: The zenith of Vayu Gaman Siddhi gives the Monk the very power of flight, allowing him superior manuverability over land based opponents.

While in flight, the Monk is completely untouchable by melee attacks, as he is assumed to fly high enough to be out of range of their attacks. However, if he strikes at an enemy unit, he will be vulnerable to melee attacks for the rest of the turn, as it is assumed that he flew low enough to attack and now requires a moment before achieving the state of mind necessary to regain his previously unassailable height.

>>6505285
as per the WHFB rules a unit only gets terror'd once, then it's immune to it. there are certain armies, like victory counts, that have nearly every unit cause fear or terror. They're a bitch, but their not unbeatable.

>>6505279
That's extremely powerful. Stupidly powerful. Amazingly powerful.

If you wanted to do something along those lines, limit it to one tier and just have it be one model per turn, takes a turn to get started, models start coming back the turn after the startup turn, anything dealing wounds interrupts. Limit to tertiaries/secondaries, can't bring back models which are of units that have been disbanded, can't bring back other Siddhi.

>>6505314
I'll be damned if I remember if terror is still in. It's not on the wiki anymore. If it is, I'm fine upgrading Mars to terror.

>>6505303

You know, that's fair, and if you've played tabletop games, you know how to balance it far better than I do. But it's unique, and it's something that fits very well with what Siddhi Monks were able to do in legend, and for that reason I think it should be considered. I leave the balancing to experts such as yourself; I merely wanted to share my brain storming.

This next one is so large it'll require two posts.

Madalasa Vidya: On accomplishing this Vidya, a person becomes capable of increasing or decreasing the size of his body according to his wish. Lord Hanuman had miniaturized his body through this Vidya while entering the city of Lanka.

Ingame terms: The power of Madalasa Vidya brings with it versitility for the Monk. She can become as great as a giant to crush her enemies without reservation, or as tiny a target as needbe to present a smaller target to her foes.

1: When a Monk first achieves the power of Madalasa Vidya, they gain the power to increase and decrease their height and size enough to make a noticable difference in battle.

The Monk can assume 3 forms: Small, Normal, and Large. It is assumed that, at this stage of his training, the Monk is unable to quickly change his size, so he needs time to meditate. When Large or Small, special rules apply.

When the Monk is in Small form, she can dodge attacks more quickly and easily than normal. Enemies striking at a Small form Madalasa Vidya Monk take a -1 penalty to all To-Hit rolls in addition to modifications from tiers. So, Celtic Woaden attacking a Small form Monk would only successfully hit on a 8+ roll, where as if the Monk was in normal form, they could succeed on a 7+ roll. This defensive bonus also applies to ranged attacks. However, due to her shorter legs, her stride simply cannot match that of her regular form. While in Small Form, the Monk takes a -1 Movement penalty.

>>6505279
woah woah woah! I was under the assumption that a primary would be 1/2 - 1/3 of the army cost, have I been completely left out of the loop, because reviving units not only seem very complicated, it also seems very cheesy.

>>6505348

When the Monk is in Large form, she gains the stride and striking range of a giant. So long as she maintains Large form, she gains +1 movement and +1 initiative, to reflect her ability to swing at enemies before they would even be in range to retaliate. However, her larger frame presents an easier target for enemies to attack. Any enemy that attacks her gains a +1 bonus on their To-Hit roll. This also applies to ranged attacks.

2: As the Monk lives his life as a size-changing creature, he becomes more comfortable with quickly adapting his size to suit his needs.

The Monk can now change his size at will, although once he makes an attack, he will retain his form until his next turn.

When the Monk is in Small Form, his enemies have a -2 total penalty to their To-Hit roll. In addition, the Monk has mastered the ability to suddenly extend the size of his limbs, letting him keep his normal stride describe his smaller form. The movement penalty as described in Madalasa Vidya 1 does not apply.

When the Monk is in Large form, he gains a +2 bonus to Movement and Initiative, reflecting his honed skills at size changing. In addition, enemies striking the Large Form Monk no longer gain a bonus to their hit as described under Madalasa Vidya 1.

>>6505285
3" radius is fucking tiny. hell, 6" is small.

>>6505361

Looks like I lied, 3 posts total. Jeez.

3: The epitimy of Madalasa Vidya brings with it absolutely instantaneous size changing. Whereas before, a 'Normal' Monk would simply reflect the stats of a base unit, with the power of Madalasa Vidya, the Siddhi Monk has become a mighty giant and an elusive dwarf both at once.Through his enlightened mind, the Siddhi Monk now gains all of the bonuses of Madalasa Vidya Small Form and Large Form in his Normal Form. In Normal Form, the Siddhi Monk will have a total bonus of +2 Movement, +2 Initiative, and enemies will take a -2 Penalty on their To-Hit rolls when they attack him, be it a melee or ranged attack. In addition to all this, the Siddhi Monk may now make Area Attacks in melee as described by the 1d4chan wiki entry.

>>6505298
>>6505310
These two aren't too out-of-line. The 3rd level of the constitution one should be crazy expensive though.

>>6505357
There's no way in hell reviving primaries will be allowed. That's so cheesy it hurts.

>>6505372
Morale reroll should be a big deal for non-Christians. And consider that all of the Primaries get that on top of their other shit.

>>6505373
As long as the costs get progressively higher on that, I don't mind it too much.

>>6505388
Now that I think about it, for the make-you-take-damage-as-Primary ability, you might want to have damage threshold decrease like for Angels (4 damage per wound for a secondary, 16 for a tertiary).

Well, it's 4:30 here, I'm going to sleep. Keep brainstorming, we're making great progress.

>>6505388

I balanced all of these skills under the idea of exponential increase in cost. Let's say, theoretically, the cost of Madalasa Vidya 1 was 3 points. MV 2 would be 9 points, and MV 3 would be 27 points. The idea is that the very first level of a Siddhi skill should not cost much, but likewise should not be very gamechanging. From then on, I just try to increase the power of the skill with the idea that its third level will be quite expensive ::3

I'm working on Surya Vigyan, the solar science of transmutation. I'm fascinated with the idea of an Indian army using sun beams to turn their armies into ass kickers, but have them be relatively weak when outside of the sun beams. I don't know, I'm still just throwing ideas out there still

>>6505497
So 27 points to be able to resurrect a third/half your army (pointwise) in 2 turns. How much is the total points for your army in that case?

In the distance Byambyn could hear his fellow Huns at work. They were packing their things, and preparing to march. He'd have to rejoin them soon enough, as he had preparations of his own to make;however, for now, he decided to take a leisurely stroll through the nearby field. It wouldn't take long, anyway.

Byambyn walked slowly but purposefully, taking care not to step on the numerous flowers that were in bloom. Their vibrant colors seeming even more beautiful in the sunlight, he couldn't help but kneel down and pick on. Bringing it carefully to his face, he breathed in its pleasant aroma before sliding the stem carefully into his clothing. Hopefully it would stay, but he couldn't help but expect it to fall out before he made it back to camp.

Continuing his stroll, Byambyn eventually came to a small pool of water. He could see his reflection staring back up at him from across the surface. He was a tall, well-muscled man with a chiseled appearance, the sort that sculptors strive to create. His hair and beard were both long and well groomed. Byambyn took great pride in his appearance, to an extent that would rival the most narcissistic Roman. He wore a simple, but clean and well made leather clothing. The traditional garb for a man of his station, with plenty of beads, feathers, and flowers attached.

Standing beside Byambyn was another man, his arm wrapped casually around Byambyn's shoulder. He was slightly shorter than Byambyn and far more lithe in appearance, but just as, if not more, handsome. He wore brightly colored silk clothing in stark contrast to Byambyn's more traditional outfit.

>>6505564

"It's times like these, my old friend, that I remember why we fight."

"How's that, Byambyn?"

"Just look around you. Isn't it beautiful? It's not about the glory, the wealth, or the rush one feels in combat. It's for this."

Byambyn's friend smiled, "Indeed. It wasn't that long ago that this was a barren dreary place, but now it's been made into something wonderful."

"Only a few hours ago, in fact. Though, I think I have you to thank for being able to actually see it."

"Partially. If a man is merged with one of our kind long enough, then he'd come to see this. But, you are special. For normal men, it'd take several decades to be able to see this sight. You and I have only been companions for ... oh... twenty years."

"Eighteen." Byambyn grinned at his friend's reflection in the water.

"Bah, close enough."

Byambyn breathed deeply, inhaling the smell of the flowers. "We've spent enough time out here. It's time to prepare for the march, in two days there will be another battle, and we'll transform another wasteland into a garden."

>>6505516

See, you're going and assuming I actually put that much thought into the matter ::3 Honestly, I don't know. Like I've said, I haven't played TT before, so, I dunno, let me ask you instead. If you were gunna rewrite that skill in such a way that it wasn't imbalanced, how would you do it? Because I've already stated in my previous posts that my idea was that, left alone, a Siddhi Monk could easily revive armies, but if he was continually interrupted, he wouldn't be able to accomplish anything at all. It's a real delicate line to toe in my mind, because if you have him take like five turns to resurrect joe schmo, who is going to bother?

I dunno. How would you do it, assuming it was doable? Because part of my whole thing here is I want to try to make Indians more interesting. So far they haven't gotten a whole lot of attention, and they honestly feel kind generic. Resurrection, though presenting some obvious balancing issues, should be considered, because it's something they can bring to the table that no one else can, which is part of what makes a faction unique ::3

>>6505596

I'll agree that the Indians are feeling kinda bland in comparison to the other factions. But I'm not sure adding in resurrection would be very viable since, in addition to balancing the point cost of that ability, we'd have to rebalance all the units to account for their revivalbility.

>>6505596
"Parkaya Pravesha: Parkaya Pravesh means one’s soul entering into the body of some other person or animal or bird . Through this knowledge even a dead body can be brought to life."
I'd use the "entering into the body of some other person or animal or bird" part, making them able to temporarily take over/stun models. - probably stun primaries and temporarily take over secondaries - but with the possibility of dying.

>>6505596

Basically, I want to make the Indians a faction that would fucking fall apart if not for a few key individuals in it. Look at the warmap posted in OP's picture. They are surrounded by enemies far larger and tougher than they are. In my mind, they should be few in number, and they should be fairly weak for what you get. Their souls should be as beaten and broken as they look on that map. But their Avatars should inspire them to accomplish feats that not even they knew they could do. Their Monks should be the kind of special agent type characters that let them be balanced despite a fairly weak army. At least, that's how it is in my head.

I mean, the Tertiary units for Indians are War Elephants. The most numerous unit in an Indian army should be... elephants. Really? I mean, just looking at them on a map, I don't see them as the kind of people that have that many elephants to go around. In other words, to me, their Tertiary units SHOULD be weak, they SHOULD be balanced around the idea of only being able to stick around through divine intervention and divine inspiration delivered on a routine basis. Christians are hanging in there because of Jeebus reviving them and Yahweh, or however you spell the name, sending Old Testament Angels to wreck shit when enough of them die. The Celts are hanging in there because of the power of their Druids and the fact that they had a surprise attack on the shore of Gaul that the Romans didn't expect. Why are the Indians alive? In my mind, it should be because of the inspiration of their Avatars and the power of their Monks, with the bulk of the Tertiary army being made of a bunch of humans with spears and some shitty armor, whipped into shape only through the radiance of their Gods.

>>6505692

Hurdur field = too long lol

I'm not trying to say redesign the faction, I'm just trying to say that I want them to have the feeling of being a faction on the brink of death that is basically only surviving due to their Avatars and their Monks. I feel that would be well portrayed with a weak tertiary army of humans that survives on account of a handful of well placed Monks and aura bonuses from an Avatar.

TLDR: I like the idea of Indians being a faction of piss weak humans that survive due to a select few individuals. How to properly portray that in TT with Indians is a question I can't answer. I'll just keep writing for now, and if you guys like it, it'll be in the wiki.

>>6505692
But there are quarterly units - normal warriors even lower on the scale. It's interesting to use the caste system to try and flesh out the indians, but resurrection really isn't it (another resurrection-based faction? really?). The green parts of the map are parts the indians control. There are more indians living in the roman territories, which can lead to interesting ambush-tactics. (oh dear god, caste system, infiltration and a peaceful greater good to strive for? TAU!)

>>6505779

Fair enough. Anyway, I just finished Surya Vigyan, let me know what you think ::3

This one is a bit long though, so be prepared.

Surya Vigyan: This solar science is one of the most significant sciences of ancient India. This science has been known only to the Indian Yogis; using it, one substance can be transformed into another through the medium of sun rays.

Ingame terms: The Siddhi Monk summons a beam of sunlight that can either strengthen the arms of his allies or weaken the strength of his foes. A single sun beam only either buff allies or debuff enemies, it cannot do both, and upon moving out of the area the sunbeam focuses on, all troops are immediately restored to their previous status. While channeling this sunlight, the Siddhi Monk cannot move or attack, lest he disrupt the meditation required to use this skill. Multiple sunbeams DO NOT stack with eachother, although multiple sunbeams focused in the same area will take affect so long as they have different affects. In addition, one Siddhi Monk cannot channel more than one sunbeam at once.

>>6505937

For instance, both a Bronze to Steel and Metal to Cloth sunbeam will take affect in the same area, because one provides bonuses to allies while the other debuffs enemies. Similarly, Emboldening Sunbeam stacks with Bronze to Steel, because they are not the same spell. Likewise, if two Indian armies were fighting, each could deploy their benefitial sunbeam in the same area, since each sunbeam would only affect one army.

Lastly, a Siddhi Monk may voluntarily stop channeling his Sunray for any reason he chooses at any time.

1: The Siddhi Monk has grasped the power of the sun, and through it can focus beams of light to assist his allies. Though his transmutive powers are still weak, the very sight of a sunbeam piercing the heavens to shine on the proud armies of India can embolden the most cowardly of men to hold fast in the face of adversity.

>>6505952

Surya Vigyan 1 unlocks the following spell:

Emboldening Sunbeam: This Sunray emboldens the warriors of India, granting them a +1 bonus to Morale rolls so long as they stay in the sunlight.

2: The Siddhi Monk has begun to learn the secrets of transmutation, allowing him to manipulate terrain with his Sunrays. In addition, his advanced understanding of how to manipulate sunlight has granted him the ability to blind enemies with light, giving his allies an edge in combat.

Surya Vigyan 2 unlocks the following spells:

Earth to Water: This Sunray shines upon the Earth and slowly transforms it into impassable water. This takes three turns total to completely transform the terrain: during the first turn, the Monk uses his action to focus the Sunray onto a given area. During the second turn, the Monk uses his action to transmute the earth into mud, leaving it still passable, but at a penalty of -2 movement speed to any who move through it. During the third and final turn, the Monk uses his last action to fully dissolve the remaining earth, rendering it an impassable body of water.

>>6505958

Water to Earth: This Sunray shines upon a body of water and turns it into normal earth. It is the inverse of the former spell: For the first turn, the Monk focuses light on the water, for the second, he transforms the water into semi-solid mud, passable with the -2 movement penalty, and at the end of his third turn the terrain is left as regular earth with no movement penalties, no matter what side passes through it.

Note: As described under 'Ingame Terms,' a Siddhi Monk may, at any time, voluntarily cease channeling his Sunray spell. This would allow a Monk to partially transform terrain into mud, rather than going through with the whole spell, leaving hazardous terrain for a careless enemy.

Blinding Sunbeam: This Sunray blinds the eyes of enemies in its area of effect, leaving all units underneath the ray with -1 Initiative as long as they remain in the ray.

3: The Siddhi Monk can now transmute the materials that make up armor and weapons through his sunbeams with ease, granting him the power to enfeeble his foes and strengthen his soldiers.

>>6505961

Surya Vigyan 3 unlocks the following spells:

Bronze to Steel: This Sunray augments all allied units beneath it, giving them a +1 bonus on all To-Hit rolls.

Metal to Cloth: This Sunray transforms enemy armor into mere cloth, making all enemies under the ray have a -1 penalty to their Size purely for the purposes of determining damage taken in Wound checks.

your new things are a bit interesting, but the terrain creation is bothersome and tedious when you're playing, and I doubt there'd be more than 6-10 turns in a game, making them rather useless depending on range. There is also the question of in which phase they use the beams and how you interrupt them. affecting units/ares with status effects have been discussed, and it'll complicate gameplay - especially area effects. however blessings/curses boosting individual units could certainly work. It's all a matter of balancing it.

>>6506012

The movement phases as described by the 1d4chan entry:

* Move Phase: Used for moving your units around the board.
* Magic Phase: used for some unique effects. Most units won't be able to do anything in this phase.
* Shooting Phase: Archery units use their attacks.
* Melee Phase: Resolve Melee combat.

Under this definition, a Siddhi Monk could move, start channeling his sunbeam (which would make it take immediate effect). Should he be interrupted the moment he takes damage? I don't really know. That's certainly one way to resolve it. It's worth noting though that we can easily make some Xen Mastery type 'equipment' and just say "Okay, Siddhi Monks that take Xen Mastery cannot be interrupted by any source of damage short of death" or something like that.

Also, bare in mind that I'm designing these with the idea that a Siddhi Monk can take as many of these Siddhi skills as he has points to throw away. In my mind, if a Siddhi Monk takes 3 level 3 Siddhi skills, he should be like a 2.5 unit, more powerful than most secondaries, but still not quite as tough as a primary.

Again, I am ignorant of tabletop balancing, but I was too enthralled by this setting to simply stay silent. I ask only that you take due consideration of my ideas so long as they aren't too outlandish, and see how we can craft the most totally awesome setting ever ::3

>>6506154
goddamn, stop doing the "::3" thing.

>>6506175

::::::::::::::::::::3333333

>>6506154
I don't mean to be rude, but if you don't have much experience with tabletop gaming wouldn't it be more sensible to work on fluff rather than gameplay mechanics for units?

>>6506190
oh god, this is edward all over again.

>>6506195

Oh no, you're right, honestly. That's what's funny though: I hate fluff, but love what you all call crunch. Who wants to weave stories that not a soul will read more than once when you can craft game mechanics that will be used as long as the game is played? I'm captivated by the idea of designing game mechanics, or at the very least influencing them.

That said, in fairness, I *am* doing my best to read, understand, and respect the previous work of the noble anon who would create such a wonderful game, and offer ideas that can at least theoretically work in the vein of a game. It's fair to look at my particularly bad ideas and scoff at them, but I speak them merely in an attempt to breathe some life into an otherwise generic faction.

TLDR: I'm sorry, I'm doing my best, but I hate fluff , like crunch, and still want to help out ::C

>>6506285

Entering this last one then letting the thread die a peaceful death.

sva-chanda mṛtyuh: Dying when one desires

Fluff because it should be pretty straight forward what this'll be: As Siddhi Monks meditate on the nature of life and death, at some point, a flash of revelation washes over them: they will die. Through their meditation, they even know the exact moment they will draw their last breath. As Monks channel their thoughts into learning the power of sva-chanda mṛtyuh, they eventually learn that through their willpower, they may stall even the Reaper's Sickle, hopefully long enough that they may do the will of their Gods.

1: The Monk learns the exact moment she will die. With her newfound knowledge, she knows that she must be hasty in doing her work on Earth, lest she be torn from it before her tasks are finished. This unit gains a +1 Initiative bonus.

>>6506486

2: Knowing that her death is inevitable, but empowered through the knowledge of when it will come, the Siddhi Monk gains the steel resolve needed to boldly stride towards her end, no matter what wounds her body may have to endure on its way there. The Monk gains a +1 Size bonus purely for the purposes of determining wound damage done to her.

3: Through intensive meditation and discipline, the Monk dips into the secrets of sva-chanda mṛtyuh, and learns how to stall death long enough to do her work. When this unit takes enough damage that it would ordinarily die and be removed from the board, it is instead rendered invincible for a period of one turn. At the end of the next turn, the Monk drops dead and is removed as normal.

Later /tg/, keep being awesome

>>6506285
I know you're probably not here right now, but let me give you a bit of advice.

When it comes to table-top gaming mechanics, keep it quick, keep it simple and keep it clean. Leave as little room for abuse as possible. Take up as little space as possible, leaving as much room for further options as possible. While I understand you're fascinated with Siddhi Monks, you're making things a little too complex.

Now, I will post a few ideas for God Machines - that could perhaps also be downgraded for Man Machines.

Basic outlines of ideas for upgrades:

POSSIBLE JUPITER UPGRADES:
Kind of the God Machines: All other Roman models within 12" are capable of rerolling Leadership tests.
Wrath of Olympus: Magic action, forces a Leadership test on an enemy unit.
Divine Inspiration: Magic action, immediately restore morale to a fleeing Roman unit.

POSSIBLE VULCAN UPGRADES:
Vulcan's Hammer: This model counts as being Size 5 for the purpose of inflicting damage on mechanical units.
Blessing of the Forge: Magic action, one God Machine or 1d10 Man Machines in a unit regain one wound if they were not previously at maximum wounds.
Curse of Unmaking: Magic action, every time a model in the targetted mechanical unit rolls a 1, roll to hit as if of the same tier. If hit is successful, model takes 1 wound.

POSSIBLE MARS UPGRADES:
God of War: For the purpose of attacking anything, this model is one tier higher than it actually is.
Fury of Rome: When rolling to hit, if a 10 is rolled, the target model is slain immediately.
Rage of Mars: Magic action, the target unit attacks twice on this combat phase.

>>6508260
POSSIBLE NEPTUNE UPGRADES:
Blessings of Neptune: This model and all Roman models in 12" can move normally over water-based terrain.
God's Speed: Magic action, the target unit can move as though this magic phase is its movement phase - even if it has already moved.
Great Floods: Magic action, target unit must succeed a Leadership test to move half movement on its next movement phase, or not move at all.

POSSIBLE PLUTO UPGRADES:
Helm of Pluto: If a unit wishes to move into base contact or attack this model from range, it must succeed on a Leadership test or otherwise disengage.
Fear of the Styx: This model inspires Terror.
Drag you to Hell: Magic action, the next model successfully hit in this turn's combat phase by this model is removed from the game - and so is this model.

POSSIBLE DIANA UPGRADES:
Forest Stride: This model walks unhindered by wooden terrain.
Bow of Diana: This model inflicts twice as much damage as she normally would when doing ranged attacks.
Hunter's Mark: Magic action, when rolling to hit the target model, Roman models treat it as though it is quarterly - however, they only inflict the same amount of damage as they normally would.

God of War, Hunter's Mark, Drag you to Hell and Fury of Rome are all incredibly powerful.

>>6508508
brokenly so. And helm of pluto is what terror/fear does.

>>6508508
>>6508737
Okay then, so how could I represent what the Helm of Pluto does, then?
Also, God of War seems balanced to me, seeing as Mars is the War God and his God Machine is probably the ultimate fighting machine.
I see where Fury of Rome and Hunter's Mark are a bit bad, though.

So...
Hunter's Mark: For purposes of being hit by ranged attacks, the target model counts as one tier less than it actually is.
Fury of Rome: This model counts as being S4 for the purposes of dealing wounds.

I like Drag you to Hell, though. It still means you have to sacrifice a God Machine in order to kill off another model.

>>6508260
>Kind of the God Machines: All other Roman models within 12" are capable of rerolling Leadership tests.

See Standard of Divinity >>6505214

>Vulcan's Hammer: This model counts as being Size 5 for the purpose of inflicting damage on mechanical units.

Completely useless against anything that isn't Roman or Chinese, with the exception of Celtic Bronze Boars.

>Curse of Unmaking: Magic action, every time a model in the targetted mechanical unit rolls a 1, roll to hit as if of the same tier. If hit is successful, model takes 1 wound.

Again, mostly useless. Is this for the whole game or a single phase?

>God of War: For the purpose of attacking anything, this model is one tier higher than it actually is.

Primary tier is the highest there is. With this it will autohit tertiaries. Primaries are already unstoppable as is.

>Fury of Rome: When rolling to hit, if a 10 is rolled, the target model is slain immediately.

Again, till the end of turn or for the whole game? Also, one-shotting primaries? We haven't worked out the wound allocation rules yet, so anything that targets a specific model in a unit is bad.

> Rage of Mars: Magic action, the target unit attacks twice on this combat phase.

a single "target unit gains +1 attack until the end of the phase" will work.

>Helm of Pluto: If a unit wishes to move into base contact or attack this model from range, it must succeed on a Leadership test or otherwise disengage.
>Fear of the Styx: This model inspires Terror.

redundant. fear/terror already requires the unit take a test when charged or being charged at.

>Drag you to Hell: Magic action, the next model successfully hit in this turn's combat phase by this model is removed from the game - and so is this model.

see fury of rome

>Bow of Diana: This model inflicts twice as much damage as she normally would when doing ranged attacks.

before or after size reduction?

>Completely useless against anything that isn't Roman or Chinese, with the exception of Celtic Bronze Boars.
I figured Vulcan should be a bit of a specialist - and yes, this is meant to primarily be effective against Chinese and Taken Machines.

>Again, mostly useless. Is this for the whole game or a single phase?
In this instance, I figured that it could either last for the entire game or a certain numbers of turns. I left out details so it could be balanced.

>Primary tier is the highest there is. With this it will autohit tertiaries. Primaries are already unstoppable as is.
I wouldn't say unstoppable. A group of secondaries could possibly take down a primary and even a group of tertiaries have the possibility of pinning a primary down for several rounds.

>Again, till the end of turn or for the whole game? Also, one-shotting primaries? We haven't worked out the wound allocation rules yet, so anything that targets a specific model in a unit is bad.
I admit, this was a rather bad idea. Come up with a new idea for it.

>a single "target unit gains +1 attack until the end of the phase" will work.
Understood.

>redundant. fear/terror already requires the unit take a test when charged or being charged at.
Understood. Further ideas for Helm of Pluto?

>see fury of rome
Sacrificing one primary in order to remove another primary. In my opinion, Drag you to Hell is balanced in this aspect.

>before or after size reduction?
After.

>>6509065
How about Curse of Unmaking can be used on anyone?

>>6509065
>Further ideas for Helm of Pluto?
Stealth, as described earlier in the thread. Ctrl-F "scouts" to get to it.

>>6507875
Agreed. Incredibly complex and easy-to-forget rules are a bit too much.

Also, Indians mostly look generic because we haven't gotten to their units yet.

Huns ftw !

>>6509591
Interesting. Yeah, that could probably work.

Also, if Drag you to Hell isn't a good idea for a Pluto upgrade, what would be more suitable? We've got Scouting, we've got Terror, what else is in Pluto's domain?

>>6509555
How about having it work as a buff instead of a debuff? Any unit who attacks targeted unit has to make the same check.

Is this a game or something ?

>>6509709
So any model who rolls a 1 on an attempt to hit the allied unit recieves a wound? Or would a point of quarterly/tertiary/secondary/primary damage be more suitable?

>>6509756
It will be. Read through the wiki in the OP if you want to know more.

>>6509756
It's original content we're working on.

>>6509759
Exactly. But he can only buff mechanical units, like Man/God Machines.

Hmmm...a wound might be a bit much. I'd say a point of Tertiary damage would be appropriate.

>>6509780
Okay.

What do you think of Drag you to Hell? Good, or should it be replaced with another ability that isn't so specialized?

>>6509761
hm nice , i'm aware of hungarian/hun mythology , if you guys want some info

>>6509809
Probably is that these huns are more like mongols than hungarians and that they're also based entirely around a corrupted version of the tribal shamanistic animism beliefs.

>>6509823
-.-' we're hate if someone call us "mongols" , and hungarians separated from the hunnic empire

>>6508265
Pluto should have powers based on the Rivers of the Underworld
Phlegethon:Fire
Lethe:Forgetfulness
Cocytus:Lamentation (in Dante, it's the frozen part of Hell)
Styx:Hate (Make enemies fight each other, instead of you?)
Acheron:Pain

>>6509809
Well, we did kind of give them the not-mythological-at-all powers, so I'm not sure how helpful that would be. Appreciated, though.

>>6509796
Considering you have to kill your own dude to do it, I don't think it's that unbalanced. You might want to add some condition to it, though, like the model you're killing off has to have at most half its wounds left (round down). So you wouldn't be able to suicide bomb a Treeman unless it had 3W already dealt to it (they normally have 5). That makes it less exploitable, in my opinion.

>>6509881
hm you know , but there is many mythological things , some of them maybe useful I'll recite some , choose if you like some
-in Hungary we're like to use the symbol of the Turul , Attila King choosed it , so thats hun also , thats a great bird like an eagle ( may effective against dragons or something)
-because the steppe life , we're respect the winds , cyclones ( guided by the wind mother)
-and the "wraiths" ( there is no really english word for it) is the fire in the morass , and they can shape to human form ( infiltration/spy unit ? )

>>6509877
New idea to replace Drag you to Hell, if people think it's better:
Drowning Despair: Magic action, forces the target unit to do a Leadership test or be incapable of attacks until your next turn.

>>6510048
We were considering that ability for the Old Ones.

>>6509967
We might be able to adapt some of these.

New thread: >>6511642