FUND IT, and stolen for next time I'm GMing.

What's to stop some charismatic random from claiming he's the Common king?

>>6591161

Not OP. Cause he will be assasinated and will be dead by next morning.

>>6591145
This would not work. If you don't know who the king is, how does he rule?

>>6591145
The Lord only knows.

Oh, I don't mean to imply that I believe in a higher power, or anything really, but the Lord is what I call my cat, and I think he knows, that is if he isn't a product of my imagination, which I can't be certain is something that I have.

Would you like some more tea? I ask because I can't assume that you do. It's dangerous to assume anything. I think.

>>6591165
Through his subordinates. They carry out his rulings.

It's the Common King, not the common dukes and common barons and common knights. They live in castles and such.

This is a nice idea, I'm inclined to think you stole it from somewhere

The problem is that you've created a king with no authority.

The king's personal confidants (i.e, the people who visit him) are the ones who are in power. If some commoner rises up and says "I'm the king!", his confidants are the ones who say "No he isn't." Whether or not said commoner really is the king.

They can do whatever they want, including replacing him with another commoner 'king', and there is nothing he can do about it.

>>6591177
Nah, I just took a look at Carrot and got the idea of taking him even further.

>>6591145
Sounds a little like Sendar in the Belgariad (David Eddings).
They basically elect their kings from amongst the peasantry...so iit's not really a monarchy, but a democracy. But then their is an heir to the throne...
It's never really explained very well. So bad example, maybe.

Personally, I'm not sure it would work...authority needs to be recognisable in some aspect. Sure, the king makes decisions for the nation and issues his decrees from his peasant house...but who carries them out? Who lets everybody else know what the dealio is when he makes a call?
He'd have to have a representative; somebody who is recognisable as the 'mouth of the king' or whatever. But therein lies the problem; what if that 'mouth of the king' decides to usurp the throne? Starts issuing commands that did not originate from the king, or is bribed by others to act on their behalf?
Supposing he just completely siezes power by saying the king ordered the guards to kill some peasants - the king and his family - and just keeps on going like there's still a king?

It's a nice idea but ultimately flawed.

>>6591145

people are greedy , if you are king you will want to live better , so that is not a setting for humans

>>6591182

To continue though, I'm not saying that it wouldn't work, just that the King's Couriers are really the ones with the real power this scheme, and the actual "king" is simply functioning as an adviser.

If these people are all exceedingly loyal and dutiful, the king's will might be carried out just the same. But, again, only at their whim.

>>6591182
>>6591189
Of course, the guy's claim for power is all the kingly tropes in the book.

>"But at the essential moment, see, your genuine kings throw back their cloak and say 'Lo!' and their essential kingnessness shines through."

This sounds like the sort of romantic Noblebright setting where it goes exactly like that.

>>6591206
Well it WOULD work like that. Sure.

It's just that /tg/'s set on Grimdark by default, so we don't usually think it that way.

>>6591206

It might be a 'noblebright' moment, but it would also signify the destruction of your system. Because then the king is no longer anonymous.

Now people know that he's king. Now he needs guards. Now other noble visit his little hovel to kiss his ass. Now the local shopkeepers refuse to charge him for anything and his old boss won't give him any real work to do. Etc, etc.

this is ridiculously convoluted and impossibly unrealistic

i mean damn can't you just put the king on a flying island and have dragon-unicorn halfbreeds carry people up to it? because, that's more feasible than your idea.

>>6591189
Loved Silk's impromptu history lesson regarding the Sendarian election. First time a non picture book made me laugh.

Well I was twelve okay, that shit's hilarious when you're a kid. <.<

>>6591206
>>6591243
We hates the noblebright, it burrrnnnssss ussssss

>>6591253
NO FUN ALLOWED

Actually, to remain as king, he must have a reason to be one while still able to keep his peasant role.

Like knowing the location of important resources, keeping the king's seal used for royal documents, hiding his role as the king by keeping the front as a king's friend/adviser, befriending other nation's kings and keeping a good economic relationship, etc.

Or just give the king a hax artifact that keeps the nation's weather in place or the king is cursed to keep a vow of poverty with some benefit boost or something.

Just need logic.

>>6591243
What if he's subtle?

He commands the kind of authority nobody else does. His associates try to have someone else be the puppet king, or just work without him and take charge... and find that it doesn't actually work that way.

I dunno, this seems kinda complicated, hard to get working. It's a good idea, though.

>>6591289
This is good.

>>6591145
>Would this work?

>>6591253
No.

>>6591266
>>6591271
>Sniff... sniffle....
>BBBAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

>>6591259
I always enjoyed the sort of cavalier and grim humour the characters in the Belgariad had when it came to politics and war. Nobody ever took anything lightly, but that didn't stop them from being glib and awesomely confident.

It worked well in the Redemption of Althalus, too.

But shit nigger, have you tried reading The Younger Gods series? Eddings has turned into a total cunt. All the books in the series are EXACTLY THE SAME. Like, copy pasting the storyline from the previous book, shortening it or telling it from a different perspective then adding an extra chapter worth of shit after that.
And the conflict resolution is just...bleh. Everything goes right for the good guys. Basically they have Gods on their side and genius heroes who think of incredibly new and inventive ways to easily beat the terrifying and unstoppable enemy.
I stopped reading that series after I'd read the account of the same events four times.

>>6591189

The first king was elected, when the country was created. After that it was hereditary.

>>6591145

Sorry, but this wouldn't work, for the many reasons already stated in the thread. If the King has no means of coercing his subordinates, he has no power. The only way you could have a system like this work--where the ruler is anonymous--is to either have the ruler have some other power his subordinates (ie. divine right, demonic power, or black-mail etc., stuff associated with The Power Behind The Throne tropes), or to divide the executive power between different subordinates who keep an eye on the other subordinates in some way.

Authority is the power to rule through a kind of consensus by everyone agreeing to follow a person, an illusion. Removing the king from the illusion also undermines it.

Another example of this sort from fiction is also That Guy In The Cottage from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I think it was in So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish.

>>6591289
Or simply have the monarchy be bestowed by a divine mandate, which is enforced by the world itself.

As in if a king tries to be greedy he loses his kingliness and all of a sudden another guy wakes up to find he is the king one day.

And then that guy goes out to milk the cow like he does just before dawn every day.

>>6591290
>>6591289
Simplest way; he's a wizard, he don't gotta explain shit.

>>6591304
You make a reference to it and yet nobody catches mine.

Fuck this thread.

>>6591290

Part of what makes it a good idea is the fact it's not easily solved - it stimulates the mind to think up ways for it to work.

How about everyone is so freakishly happy with him that no one wants to kill him?

I think we need some lolmagic in here, stat.

The king could have a hereditary, psychic rapport with everyone in the royal palace at any given time.

Alternately, some means of securing the loyalty of his couriers, to the tune of "Holds their hearts in an amulet which he can crush at any time".

>>6591289
is on the right track, and there MIGHT be a non-magical way to do this, but the examples listed are kind of flimsy. The couriers could just torture him. In a noblebright setting he would resist, they would lock him in a dungeon, a hero would discover the truth and embark on an epic quest to rescue him, yadda yadda, but that doesn't change the fact that the system has failed. And this won't be a rare occurrence.

>>6591307

Ooh, I like that one.

"Behold, lowly peasants, I am your king!"

NO YOU'RE NOT. *poof*

"Oi, Harold, get yer arse up, it's time to feed th' chickens again. Also, you're apparently our new king or some rubbish like that."

How about crazy unquestioning loyalty?

It was inevitable.

What this setting needs is some kind of magical artifect that lets everyone know who the real king is. Maybe I dunno like a fiery blue stone or something.

>>6591332
Wouldn't that kinda defeat the point?

>>6591318

Could be done if this has been the norm for generations. I mean the only thing that seems to befuddles logic is tradition or religion. Choose one and stick with the argument. Make an epic story in history about what happens to those that betray the king, like a secret order that protects the king or assasins that serves only him or that sort.

>>6591339

Could be used to moderate the people actually giving the orders. The stone is in the center of the palace throne room but only the king can actually hold it. If the kings orders aren't being followed he can simply pick it up and tell people to change stuff before going back to quiet obscurity. Maybe it can erase peoples memories of him to allow that to happen.

>>6591324
Not even that. Like he gets up to shave and wash his face and he realizes "Hey, I'm the king now. Oh, damn it, I'm going to need a new brush, the flanges on this one are all wearing out and I can't work up a good lather anymore. Maybe I can go hunting with the boys this weekend and get a few badger skins to barter with the trader for a new one. Then I need to declare war on Caledonia, in retaliation for their attack on Fort Arclay last month. Lord Graeme's son will have to be knighted soon, and I think Bessie will birth this afternoon. Hope it's a bull, because Chester's getting to old to breed anymore..."

>>6591297
Nail on the head, the characters and their interaction made that series. That's probably Eddings' strongest card.

Read the Elenium/Tamuli and quite liked it, the politics were a little more involved, which was nice, but it still felt kinda stale. I've got Redemption hanging around but there're maybe a dozen other books I need to read as well so it's just sitting there at the moment. Heard awful things about the Gods series and I've already come across the warning signs so I'll do the smart thing and keep a ten foot bargepole handy so I can't touch them with it.

>>6591340
Makes sense. Make a churches entire belief system revolve around the one true kings family and how they must remain common to remain puree...etc.etc.

>>6591307
>>6591324
>>6591357

I'm loving this idea more and more.

>>6591297

> All the books in the series are EXACTLY THE SAME.

slowpoke.png

Though that sounds like a step down from his earlier modus operandi, where every *series* is exactly same. Even the Belgariad prequel books are rewrites of each other, just from the point of view of different characters. Not that any of this stopped my adolescent self from fapping to Polgara's cleavage on the cover, though. It was so much fucking easier when you were thirteen...

>>6591367
>>6591340

You are creating a power structure which does not actually serve the king himself.

It serves the people claiming to act IN THE NAME of the king. And they can and will build such a culture around their legacy whether or not the king condones them, is still alive, or ever existed in the first place.

>>6591368

Yea, I think this is some good stuff.

How does the old court know to get in touch with the new king, though?

>>6591382
Imagine in this world god actually exists and by serving the true king well. They get powers.

>>6591382

Just put an extra clause in the belief of tradition system that the true identity of the king cannot be known to the people.

The king could just send his rulings anonymously into a magical crystal ball or the sort of that, without having any contact with his advisors. Like the internet.

His rule only works as long as he has competent people administering his kingdom for him--like Vetinari has Vimes and Moist for his most important socio-economic positions.

>>6591383
They same way they knew the old one. They never went to that one house along Copperhead Trail on the crest of the big hill overlooking Quarry Town, to meet with Ogden the smithy.

They went to the King's House, to meet with The King.

>>6591387

That's what
>>6591368
is saying.

"Huge-ass metaphysical construct" (doesn't have to be The Lord Jehova, it could be an ancient spell, but either way) does work. "Fanatic cultural constructs" doesn't; in fact it probably does more harm than good (in terms of helping usurpers quell resistance and hold onto power).

>>6591399
Yeah, my mom always said I was sidekick material, so I just ran with it.

So essentially, it's a combination of Carrot and Vetinari.

Only a few people know who he is, and those few can't usurp him because that'll do way more harm than good.

>>6591383
>>6591406

Bingo. Those in power know The King lives at the King's House. Those who are not in power know Harold the Tailor lives in the shack behind Old Tom's smithy.

>>6591415
Is it possible for them to fall from said power by not doing the king's will?

Why are the trolls assuming that the OP's world is inherently evil all the time? Remember, NOT OUR WORLD.

>>6591448
I would imagine so. If, as we seem to be going, the Unknown King is King because of some divine mandate, then his will is, indirectly, a form of divine will, and thus disobediance would carry penalties.

>>6591457
No, but it's easier to make an inherently evil world, because it's not done so much and in it, what good remains shines much more.

I still prefer good worlds over evil. I'm just like that.

>>6591457

This thread is about identifying the differences between our world and this one which would allow this TO work.

Also, stop using the world troll. You don't know what it means.

>>6591487
>identifying the differences between our world and this one which would allow this TO work.

people in power actually want to help the people instead of themselves

like in our world they are exceptions to this, but they are nearly no existant

>>6591487
"troll" denounces everyone making a post for the sake of answers. If a post screams "Feed me!", it's a troll post - like yours.

>>6591509
>"troll" denounces everyone making a post for the sake of answers.

so every thread is a troll thread?

yeah, i dont think you know what troll means

>>6591497

That sounds like a cop-out from a worldbuilder's point of view. More to the point, it sounds like an insufferably boring place to tell a story.

I think it's possible to make this work with real people, and I much prefer the ideas in this thread for doing so.

>>6591519
>yeah, i dont think you know what troll means

The whole word is meaningless because the proper definition makes us all trolls.

Now let's get back on topic.

>>6591519
>shitty retort made by a shitty tripfag

>>6591522
People who want to help other people happily work with the Common King, knowing that this way they can better help everyone. People who'd rather help themselves acknowledge that they have to keep serving the king regardless, because otherwise they'll lose whatever power and prestige they have and everything will go to shit.

>>6591529
now, look, thats a troll post, trying to incite replies by making something angry at the content of his post without adding nothing else than the objetive to make somebody angry

thank you for the example sir

>>6591538
No matter what that poster may have done, you remain the worst tripfag on /tg/. I would actually sooner have the Neckbeard, because even though he's an unmitigated attention whore (and possibly a Shas imitator) he at least knows his shit. I've never once seen you say something not retarded. I would bet money you're 15.

>>6591538
>>6591529

Neither of you are trolls, you're just shitposters. Go away.

Every bit of soil in the nation exudes a substance that when inhaled/come into contact with over a period of years gives an inherent "detect evil" sort of trait. It's always on, but came so gradually and is so natural that the locals never notice it.

The trait does more than just LOLDETECTDAEMONS, though. It gives people a slight twinge for every minor cheat, every touch of greed, every minute sin. A man who works 'til his back breaks but enjoys a beer every evening would hardly register. The same man who enjoys a beer and then yells at his kid would probably be easily bearable, but you'd intrinsically know not to leave him alone with the weak or timid. A man who had killed would always seem to have a sickly odor about him, and so on. To an extent, even thoughts of evil would show.

Thus, the populace is naturally inclined to trust those who have their best interests at heart, and the nobles are men of purest heart, with only their constituents at the fore of their minds.

Of these nobles, a select few are members of bloodlines so old that the substance is part of their being, and have a heightened sense of right and wrong, even compared to their fellows. These few are the Kingkeepers. They travel the land doing good deeds and handing out boons to those who need and deserve them, all the while masking their true intent: Finding the purest person in all the land.

>>6591557

Okay, I really like the idea of subliminal detect evil creating a utopian society. But I think it almost diminished the OP's idea if used in the same setting; if society is that good, then having a hidden king would be childsplay.

But whatever. Noblebright general-thread is a go.

I think in a Noblebright setting, a king like this wouldn't be needed, while in a Grimdark setting, it wouldn't work this way.

I'm thinking of Nobledark. Or at least Nobleneutral.

>>6591591
Grimbright, rather, or Neutralbright.

In Nobledark, the people are generally good and awesome, but the world is a dark and gloomy place where they don't often succeed. The Common King doesn't need to remain hidden, and doesn't succeed in his job very awesomely either.

But in Grimbright, he needs to stay hidden because people are ambitious assholes in general. And the narrative is on his side.

>>6591591

I think that having such a humble king is a boon even in the tamest ('-bright') settings. You have to get pretty extreme (i.e, >>6591557 ) for it to be obsolete).

That said, I think that having a kingdom like this automatically makes your setting "-bright" anyway; I think that in Nobledark you'd have a shitty and corrupt kingdom full of heroic people who persevere in spite of this.

But it's hard to talk about grimbright ("shitty protagonists in great world") or nobledark ("great protagonists in shitty world") without reaching a consensus on where "the protagonists" stops and "the world" begins. The world is made of people, after all.

bump, and also archive request.

>>6591715
Too little fleshing out to warrant an archiving just yet.

Let's work on fixing that.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6591145/

I've archived it anyway, because even if the thread putters out here I still want this for reference (some good ideas here), but I DO want to see this fleshed out more as well. Keep in mind that suptg's robot minions will continue refreshing the thread until 404.

I personally can't help but think that, for HEROIC FANTASY, something needs to go drastically wrong so that a hero can set it right.

If we go the "divine edict' rout, I still don't see transfers of power as usually being neat and tidy affairs. Especially if the old king's inner circle of nobles or couriers (those who come to The King's House to receive his will) have become his friends. Deep down, some or all of them may know that he has lost his spectral crown, but might refuse to believe it, continuing on as though he were still the king (and, as we've established, nobles who deny the REAL king lose their magical 'noble' status, i.e, they don't necessarily know who or where the real king is anymore).

CRIMSON KING? [spoiler]END THE TYRANNY OF GAN![/spoiler]

>>6591870
>I personally can't help but think that, for HEROIC FANTASY, something needs to go drastically wrong so that a hero can set it right.

It doesn't need to even be in the spotlight. Just some interesting background stuff.

>>6591870

Indeed. And those who claim to be (or to have once been) King are usually disbelieved. Not really mocked or anything, just brushed off.

"Wot? King? Who, ol' Jekins? Nah, lad, Jekins is just a leathercrafter, 'e ain't no king. Eh? Yah, yah, there's a buncha folk wot comes an' visits the ol' boy ev'ry now an' then, but that dun mean 'e's some kinda king. He's a damn fine leathercrafter, is all, an' word gets out. Trust me, boyo, if ol' Jekins was a king, don' ya think I'd know it?"

The Kingdom of Arranth is a curious one.
Five generations ago, the king stepped down from his castle, and began to live among the common people. Orders were given out by couriers, and they are dealt with. Whether simple home affairs or matters of diplomacy, the King is rarely met, if ever, since he will only see those who will don peasant's clothes and go blindfolded to his home. He does not wish to be found.

The royal family has always been able to keep their true heritage and line by the Arranthic Tree, an magical artifact created by the first 'Common King'. The Arranthic Tree can always deduce who was truly part of the royal family, who they were, and whether they are next for the throne or not. It also focuses upon their personality, and finds whether they would be a good king/queen.

>>6591960
There are Three Arranthic Trees.
Each one is an indestructible scroll with a complex tree design upon it, and it is able to be read by even those who are illiterate, conveying the message telepathically. They also have the final ability to be able to be found. The king did not wish for any of the Trees to ever be lost or destroyed, in case for a power struggle, and so the scroll will always let itself be found by who truly wishes to reinstate the true king or take the false king from the throne.

>>6591946

See, I just don't buy this. If the commoners know that the king is among them, they will WANT to believe that o'l Jenkins is king. Humans love that kind of shit.

The common rumor mill will pick up EVERYTHING. Henchment will be hired to snoop around, investigate, and generally bother the most likely candidates. Within a decade the common king's identity will be an open secret. None of the upper class will confront him because they don't want to get in trouble, but they'll all know.

>>6592014
Three words.
MA-FUCKING-GIC.

>>6592014
Nah, the narrative works so that they'll of course pick the wrong person and think he's the king.

>>6592025

See, you can just say MAGIC and handwave things away. You have to actually say what the effect is so that we can look at its other ramifications and expand the setting accordingly.

>>6592046
think of it as kind of a "somebody's else's problem" sort of thing - they know (name) is really the king, but they don't really think about it - unless they need him for some sort of king-business, the idea of (name) as king doesn't really occur to them, and even after getting king-advice from him, they go right back to thinking of him as just another face in the crowd.

>>6592084

So, basically, one of the effects of his kingly aura is that even people who know his identity pretend that he isn't, and any feelings of excitement or notions of exploitation are suppressed?

I think we can do a lot better than that.

>>6592046
>See, you can just say MAGIC and handwave things away
I know. That's why it's such a good answer.

I think you vastly overestimate the level of interest peasants show to this stuff. I'm pretty sure most of them don't care: they just want to get through their day without any shenanigans. They're boring people with boring thoughts, not some wacky conspiracy theorists.

The king needs no Chameleon Circuit or some weirdass aura that suppresses people: they just don't give a damn about this kind of things.

>>6592102

No, not really, it's more like a general sort of "so what?" disinterest than an active suppression. Yeah, so he's king, what's your point?

Like him being king is about as big a deal to the peasantry he lives among as him having a certain haircolor or other mundane factoid.

There is a group of religious fanatics, orphans raised from near-birth, that is taught that their highest goal should be in serving the king. They are led by two masters, a Senior and a Junior. They receive messages via magical silver bowl (insert fancyname here). There are two of these. One is in a trunk in a secret hole in a hut. The other is in the locked chamber of the Senior Leader. The king places a written message in the bottom of the platter sealed with the signet ring, and a drop of blood. He then sets the folded piece of parchment on fire.
The parchment appears in the other bowl, and the Senior will dispatch initiates to complete the King's Will.

>>6592134

Except that that's not what people are like at all.

And if people WERE that completely unconcerned with power you would not need a hidden king to begin with.

>>6592158
See >>6592125. Medieval commoners aren't like the commoners of today, when they want to know every dirty detail of everyone.

>>6592140
Of course, the kingship is passed down by blood, and in that blood lies the Royal Power, which manifests in the next heir when the previous king dies.
With this inheritance comes two things: immense magical power, and a sudden overwhelming sympathy, empathy, protectiveness, etc. for each and every one of his subjects, who are magically defined as having sword fealty, and not having betrayed the kingdom.
In the chest (which can only be opened by the king), is the silver message platter, the kingsword, the golden crown, the royal robes, and the scepter of state.

>>6592125

This is so perfectly and completely false that I'm having trouble finding words for it. It is... absolute twaddle.

Even (or perhaps especially) the lowliest of peasants absolutely adore that sort of distraction. To be a noble is to be a person who's life is on display: celebrities and politicians are merely the 'nobles' of the modern era. Or, to put it differently, scandal and pageantry of the middle ages.

And sorry for the delay. My roomate is a com magor; I repeated your post to her and she made the funniest face, then went on a long rant about how our society (going back to its very roots) is based on the cult of the celebrity.

tl;dr you're wrong.

>>6592218

Scandal and pageantry were the celebrity gossip of the middle ages, is what I meant to say.

He is out of political risk thanks to the motherfucker-badass COMMON ROYAL GUARD

>>6591182 and >>6591189 make a very good point. However, it could easily be prevented with the use of some 'Royal Seal' or other. Something that, if his chancellors etc. try to usurp him, he has a symbol of who he his.

>>6592240
Nah, he's just gotten himself to such position that they don't want to usurp him. If they do, it'll just end up worse for everyone involved.

>>6592218
>com magor

Boy, don't I sound intelligent.

Seriously though, I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around how you could possibly think celebrity obsession is a modern thing. ALL human society works that way, across cultural boundaries. Having a boring life makes one MORE susceptible to that sort of diversion, not less.

>>6592272

Assuming an astounding level of basic altruism and good-will from his inner circle. Not only that, but temperance as well (and the wisdom to recognize that the king's will should be followed even when you DON'T think he's made the best move).

Like I've said before, this doesn't make it completely infeasible, just implausible.

>>6592189
personally I think it would be better if the king somehow knows when/how he will die and so towards the end of his life he designates a successor from among the peasantry, a person the king just knows (perhaps divinely) will be a good king for the people.

>>6592189
The king makes public appearances infrequently, and when he does, those who see him are unable to recall his face, knowing only that it was a face of peaceful happiness and love. This effect is granted by the Golden Crown.
The Scepter of State allows the king to Compel those who have sworn fealty to him. This is used very rarely, and usually only in the cases of traitors and assassins.
The Royal Robe is a powerful piece of armor, rendering any blow ineffectual.
The Kingsword is a shining, silver longsword. When wielded, it gives the king the king the tactical skill of the best of warlords.
These artifacts only work at full power when worn by the king. When worn by others, they are far less powerful, but still powerful enough that other rulers would slaughter their firstborn child to own one.
When fully decked out, the king is a being of compassion, a whirlwind of retribution, and the trues of judges. He is still a mortal man, though. The king will find that, while life-threatening accidents rarely happen, he can still be killed, (but only by one who has not sworn fealty to him). The king was once abducted by a neighboring kingdom, discovered via scrying magic. After leaving the kingdom's borders, if he is not wearing the mantles of leadership, he loses all the kingly traits.
When he was killed (for refusing to give up secrets during torture - a feat of legendary will, since the royal will was no longer within, and he was but a normal man), his eight year old son received the inheritance, which manifested immediately, and proceeded to wage a one-boy war that lasted all of three days. It ended with the new king setting the kidnapping ruler's castle - it's very stones - on fire, with the ruler, and the kidnappers, inside.

>>6592308
include some divine intervention on who the king and his couriers/inner circle are, there are still nobles in this kingdom but none want to/manage to usurp the throne because of politics and the fact that the bulk the the nations military is loyal to the common king, many its generals/commanders been among the kings inner circle.
There is perhaps one trusted noble that posses as the king when dealing with other nations as they don't really believe that the common king is real

>>6592328
There is a royal castle, and a throne. The castle is free for anyone to enter, and is a prison and courthouse, training grounds, barracks for the army, and a last line of defense for the town around it. When necessary (about once a year, at least), the king will travel there to act as a judge for serious crimes, and to take the Vow from all of the subjects seven days later. The Recieving of the Vow takes at least three days, and it entails the entire populace verbally swearing fealty to the king. Missing the Vow means that, legally, you are no longer a citizen under the crown (it is estimated that 5% of the population did not attend the last Vow.) Vows take place in groups of between one and one hundred at a time (although larger groups are known, historically). Nobles are required to take a slightly different vow.
This high turnout is suspected to be because of the festival that occurs over this period.

>>6592399

Just so you know, someone at least is reading this, and it's good.

I personally still prefer for the whole system to be a bit shakier, and for the king to have less just-because power, thus needing the occasional unsung hero to rescue them.

Just the same though, good stuff.

>>6592218

yeah, well, she's a bitch (she really went on a rant?)

>>6592399
Besides the ten day festival, the king spends much of his time living just like everyone else, occasionally meeting with delegates from other countries, and entertaining guests at the castle.
There is a standing army, for the simple reason that the king can't be everywhere at once. The main force is garrisoned at the castle, but the King's Guard is a force hat can be felt everywhere. Often, they act as the superiors, or in conjunction with, other noble's soldiers.
On second thought, it might be better if the royal items were kept in the king's chambers, in the castle.

>>6591145

What are foreign dignitaries going to do? Even better, what the fuck are foreign dignitaries going to THINK?

>>6592455
Many are probably going to simply disbelive in a common king,
either considering the most powerful noble to be king, or approaching it like a ruling council of nobles.
There would be a few select though who know who the true king is and visit him directly.

why is Kent from the Iron Giant in that picture?

>>6592427
Thanks!
I think you're right about that wtfmagicalpower needing to get toned down, and am open to suggestions as to how that might be accomplished. So far the limits are:
- Most of the king's power lies in the royal vestments.
- Powers don't work at all outside of boarders, except in VERY special circumstances.
- Power is dependent on people taking the Vow.
- People can retract their fealty at any time, rendering them immune to the king's effects, but not his brute magical power (he can't make them tell the truth, but he can fireball them).

>>6592436
Well, it probably wasn't much of a rant, and actually wasn't that long come to think of it. But she did say you were stupid.

>>6592542
>- Most of the king's power lies in the royal vestments.

He's got the charisma and leadership to back it up. He's been trained to speak properly and use plenty of force of personality and dominating voice. He can function well without his magical kingly artifacts, although he's obviously vastly more powerful with them.

>- Powers don't work at all outside of boarders, except in VERY special circumstances.

True, but like said, charisma and force of personality still work well.

>- Power is dependent on people taking the Vow.
>- People can retract their fealty at any time, rendering them immune to the king's effects, but not his brute magical power (he can't make them tell the truth, but he can fireball them).

Pretty much.

Just dropping by to say that the OP is an idiot.

>>6592595

Duly noted.

>>6592399
with the annual taking of the vow and it making you a citizen this nation probably has a relatively large number of immigrants/refugees

As long as we don't forget that it's not all about LOL MAGIC and LOL EARTH CHOOSES THE KING and LOL VOWS AND COOL ITEMS. Give those things to a regular peasant, and it will not make him the king, not by themselves.

He's like Winston Churchill and Theodore Roosevelt and all those other awesome leaders we've had, in that he's got the power and authority to maintain his kingship even without the mageek and stuff.

>>6592620
You'd be surprised, about 150 on a poor year, and upwards of 2000 on a year with a massive demon invasion.
Other nations have indoctrinated into their peoples a fear of the "Burning King" and magic, in general. Magic is fuckrare, and the kingship is the best known example of truly powerful magic.
There are relatively few conflicts between the eastern nations, most violence is towards the annoying dire ceratures and demonoids that have been coming from the southwest for the past hundred years or so, that no one wants to go investigate.
So far, the mountain tribes of "Pine Barbarians" have been taking most of the damage, and they refuse to live under the "Witch King" as they call the king.
I'll draw a map of what I think the area looks like.

>>6592679
Purple - Fictional country that we've been discussing.
Green - Plains, ruled by a self-interested kingdom that focuses on pride, self reliance, and tradition.
Red - A place of turmoil and war. They are led by a greedy coven of nobles.
Grey - A largely isolated country, best example of LN around. They've retreated from their western mountain passes.
The southern mountains are home to a very small barony, and a bunch of mountain tribes that also inhabit the two islands in that small eastern sea.
The Eastern Nations are an indecipherable people. They don't like boats, and are superstitious to the extreme.
North of the northern mountains is some tundra, and then some settlements that don't seem very friendly, that claim to pledge allegiance to an emperor. Until a few decades ago, it was assumed that it was completely uninhabited.
The Ocean of Ice is an ocean, covered in ice, surprisingly enough.

I'm going to go eat lunch now.

>>6593021
Picture. Derp.

>>6593021
>>6593023
Looks nice.

Several theories. Hope it helps. . .

As previously mentioned. Psychic or magical support. The king makes decrees, that are posted throughout the land by magic, or psychic announcement. He's the only one with this power, and it's hard to usurp control, when information is intantaneously transferred.

B)Several of the king's advisors run the country. The remainder of them serve as safeguards against the advisors. If any of the advisors turn traitor, the remaining nobles, advise, intimidate, or downright force the seditionist into compliance. These people are well taken care of, and have much more to lose by overthrow, than what could be gained. As such, gaining the kingdom just grabs you more work with less reward (peasant lifestyle). . . This also ensures that the job only goes to those who truely want to help people. IE, it's a hard tedious job, not a luxury, to be this king.

C) A magically assured rotation of kingship. It is assured that Everyone will eventually be king (Magic), Ergo, less need to overthrow and claim kingdom, it will come to you. Furthermore, people are more likely to lead with reason and kindness, because if they dick it up, then when their rule is over, the new kings will make them miserable. . .

>>6593109
I would go with B). Too much magic for the Common King would be bad, I think, because then he'd not be Common anymore.

>>6593023
There can't be jungles that north.

>>6593887
Magic.

>Fatguy has a decent interesting idea for once
>ruins it by invoking an anime for reference

Fuck you /tg/.

>>6594315
What anime reference?
Bump.

>>6594315
I can assure you any anime references are purely accidental.

>>6591145
I like this. A lot. Kind of reminds me of the Fisher King.

>>6594315
What? What are you talking about, what amine reference?

How about changing it up a bit, and use this as a red herring.

"CommonER KingS"

Long ago, there nobles were constantly at war, with each other and foreign nations. One day, one noble, thinking he was all that, led his forces against an enemy nation. Except his peasents begged him not to go due to a lack of supplies/morale/magic/something. Of course, he didn't listen, and caused a total army kill.

The other nobles looked at this, and collectively went "DO NOT WANT!"

In order to avoid this happening to him, one noble decided to make a normal peasent his confidant that would function as an advisor and pollster. This peasant, having an ear to the ground where the soldiers and supplies came from, would let the noble know if the people were willing or even able to go to war. Doing so, he was able to hold on to his lands and even expand a bit.

In return, the peasent was taught to read and write, so that he could pass on notes to the noble. He was taught some stuff from the nobility, if only not to offend the noble's sensitivities. He even spreads his tactic to fellow nobles, since they are probably family and he' dlike to keep a buffer between him and the enemy nations.

Now imagine that you are some random serf. Suddenly, Sindus the Bread-maker could read the bills and use fancy words. He is being visited by a strange person that is also bringing some noticeably capable guards, even if they are dressed like peasants. Of course, rumors would soon spread that he is a noble hiding in plain sight, but no one wants to bring him up on it. Eventually, the rumor spreads to the point where they say he is actually the king.

And this is all happening throughout the noble held lands since all the nobles are doing it.

Eventually, the PCs are sent to find this commoner king. Except there isn't one, but they don't know that. And neither do their enemies. If they are sent to kill or protect him, it doesn't matter. They'll never find him, but they will find numerous shenanigans in their quest to do so.

i think theres a /CK/ reference in there somewhere... oh wait OP... nearly trolled

bumpan

Well. The king is the most powerful man in the country. Literally. He had the strength to kill the last king and the foresight to fend off any assassination attempts.

He has 3 guards. Why so few? Because why do you need to protect the most powerful man in the land?

Okay, what if you had it so that the King appeared like once a year or so; you build up with mythos around the King, possibly having the public think him "off to war" or ruling the country from his lands on another plane (that don't exist).

This way the public knows it has a King, but one of Authurian-legend epic proportions. The public thinks they have a king too busy to be at his castle, and speaks of legendary tales of his deeds in far off lands.

Meanwhile the real king lives in his house and has established himself a circle of friends who he knows he can trust above all else; through these nobles (for they are nobles) he sends out his decrees and manages his kingdom.

ignoring everything else that's already been said:

A king's role by traditional authority is only granted because he is visibly a ruler and is seen in a position of authority by (choose x, lineage, chosen by god, succession by assassination).

Therefore a king cannot be a king if he does not exert the powers of a king (as opposed to the system of power exerted in a rational legal system such as bureaucracy). If in fact this "king" is a king (not just claiming to be king) then he would not be immune to the power struggles inherent in holding power.

TLDR: impossible scenario due to a misunderstanding of authority as a social concept.

>>6591145
Precedent!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calabar_States:_Calabar_Kingdom

Ancient African kingdom where political power is derived from membership in secret societies. Basically imagine if the freemasons really DID run the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekpe

Outsiders have no idea who else is a member; all of their public duties (ruling, judgement, policing) are performed while masked. Now imagine if the royal court basically functioned this way. Society is a medieval combination of Orwell and Batman.

>>6598742
I have a setup like that in a gestalt game I am running.

Normal folks are NPC classes, but the gentry were all core classed, determined by both location and breeding. Then the actual rulers were all gestalt characters (including the PC's) and it was known that they ruled through Divine Right (although in many cases that right wasn't exactly divinity).

I feel a king or emperor should understand his people before ruling them, prompting the election system. The players witnessed an election in action, in fact. They campaigned and worked for one party against the incumbent. It's worked out for me, and the players.

MISTER SHINE

HIM DIAMOND

>>6599069

This is kind of what I meant to say near the beginning of the thread (king with no authority isn't really a king).

Nevertheless, the people could still CALL him a king, and his land a kingdom. It's a cool idea.

>>6600759
>africa
>utopia
HA HA HA

>>6604120
Not to start a political and historical discussion, but Africa used to be pretty awesome place before Europeans fucked it up.

>>6604167

Famines, the lack of medicine, the lack of electricity, the lack of clean water, torture, rape, clan-wars, and genocide on a daily basis pretty sweet? GB2 sucking your big black politically correct dick.

>>6604179

In the time before the Europeans came to Africa, the ENTIRE WORLD was like that.

Related: The Twelve Kingdoms series.

The king is chosen and protected by an uncorruptable magical being, like a gold dragon or unicorn or kirin or whatnot.

It's entirely possible that other courtiers would try and exert their own control in place of the king's will, but the players (who is what all this story crap is written in benefit of, incidentally) can easily be convinced of who has the legitimate claim.

>before the 19th century, the ENTIRE WORLD was like that. Nowadays most people have a tap and a generator somewhere within 70 Kilometers.

fixed for justice.

>>6604623

Most people were not really aware of the difference between: "The dude with the kirin is the king" and "The Kirin is the creature which finds the king as a representative of the country"

This secret king idea has a few good points, and a few flaws. I can see it working for a short while, maybe 3 or more generations, but after I can see it starting to fall apart.

Part of that being greed, part of it being logistics. Perhaps some where down the road one king might decide that the king should speed 1 week a month in the castle keeping his touch with the commoners but being close to the court to have his finger on Internationale matters.

Perhaps though what might make more sense is that the "Common King" is by law not allowed to support himself on taxes, but must support himself on his own wages. Because of this the "Common King" is supported by a forum system (like Rome). The people bring up issues to the forum, present both the point and counter point, and then the lawmaker (King) comes back to the people with a law which is discussed and then the voteing body (ie the heads of each comunity) enact the laws.

The knights of the land could possibly be a sort of executive arm of the government enforcing the laws, as well as commanders of the military. (Each knight being an army officer as well as Sheriff.)

Or at least that is how I would understand things.

>>6591145

No, because nobody would know who the king was and therefore nobody would know whose laws to obey, and if they did, he'd be assassinated in a matter of days if not bogged down by the extremely heavy administrative responsibilities of running a country. Otherwise, he'd have to start hiring administrators to delegate tasks to since he is only one man, at which point he would become known and would also acquire a need for money, which would result in taxes and the means to live a less common lifestyle.

And since nobody knows who the fucking fuck is the king, random power mongers would start popping up here and there to try asserting their dominance. Thug wars would break out and despotism would form out of the chaos, creating a terrible mafia-ruled future for this idiotically ruled country.

well, it wouldn't work.

But fuck that, the idea is awesome, and it's stolen.

>>6591166
I see what you did there, and I see that it was good.

>>6591168

If people know who he is he can be assassinated, if people DON'T know who he is he can't rule.

>>6608201

As said before this idea requires a noblebright setting where the King has loyal and reliable subordinates who can carry out his orders and keep a secret.

Who would want to live in a country ruled by some random peasant anyway?

"Oh mighty king, there is a plague sweeping the eastern cities. Should we enact a quarantine?"
"Your majesty, what should the tax on herrings be?"
"Oh exalted one, a neighboring kingdom wishes to sign a treaty regarding use of a river that flows through both our borders, what should we do?"

"How the fuck should I know? I grow turnips, remember?"

How does he rule?

The Common GOD.

>>6608274
Or, at the very least, Nobledark. It'd be much more interesting, I think.

or maybe the king lives as a peasant as cover he does hold power in a meaningful way as in. for instance the whole country is ruled in secret by a vast league of assassins. The peasant king as the head of the guild his children trained in secret. His nation small and resource poor so this guild of stealthy killers is both the only way to enforce the rule of law and protect its sovereignty. no other nation however big ever tries to conquer this small country as their leaders are found dead with in hours of any attempted declarations of war.

>>6608201

It's all a matter of who knows and who doesn't. As has been established, the people doing the ruling are his inner circle of nobles, who consult him on important issues and act in his name. At best they are loyal and dedicated and trust his judgment in all things (or have some reason or another not to defy him- see thread). At worst, they do as they like and he becomes a figurehead-ruler who doesn't even serve as a figurehead; basically just a name which the real rulers invoke to give their orders weight.

>>6608274
That, however, is completely shitty thinking. Good writing ENABLES and EMPOWERS its genre, rather than relying on its genre as a crutch (for instance, a good heroic fantasy tries to make you feel and understand WHY the hero does incredibly heroic things; as compared to a bad one, which simply shrugs listlessly and says "because he's the hero").