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  • File : 1258482585.jpg-(122 KB, 250x326, 40krp-dark-heresy.jpg)
    122 KB Ethereal Dawn: Tau Heresy 4 Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)13:29 No.6746251  
    See http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6717352/, http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6730953/, http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6734050/ for earlier threads.

    I've now decided that Outreach's headquarters are on Kronus (which needs a more Tau-ish name), and that it's being led by Aun'el Shior'es. My current question for you is: should there be a specific setting within the Tau Empire for the campaign, like in DH, or have the entire Empire as a setting?

    Also, any drawfags who'd want to create a cover for Ethereal Dawn would be greatly appreciated.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:33 No.6746292
    Have you ever run a game? That's such a weird question to ask unless you're writing an actual supplement. The game is set wherever your players are and wherever they want to go (or where they are sent).
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)13:35 No.6746314
    Well, I've been getting more ambitious in this lately. If other people might actually want to play this thing without me running it, I thought it might be nice if I did come up with a specific setting.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)13:50 No.6746443
    All right, I'll ask a different question. What should I do about gue'vesa psykers? At the moment I'm thinking of banning them from play entirely, but I haven't quite decided yet.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:53 No.6746470
    So you're going to play a Tau-centric Tau-playable game? I'd not use psykers, in that case.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:53 No.6746472

    it would be a good plot point, as Tau have no anti-daemon warding and little knowledge of daemons in general
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:55 No.6746486
    What's the theme for this?
    Is it a more "Tau go out and explore... man the galaxy is so fucked up, and it seems to be looking at them with a rape face"?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)13:55 No.6746495
    Also, does everyone still hate the idea of the Tau being advised by a renegade Librarian?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)13:56 No.6746504
    This one is about defending the Tau Empire from the various threats that might, well, threaten it. I figure that Rogue Trader can be used well enough for your idea.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:57 No.6746508

    I recommend you read the Firewarrior novel to supplement the information in the Tau codex. Fluff out Kronus, adjacent planets and key locations on them, such as capital cities, starbases and the like. Other planets in the main Empire can be described in general.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:57 No.6746515
    Yes, it is still not a good idea.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:58 No.6746518
    Still a terrible idea.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)13:58 No.6746519
         File1258484319.jpg-(1.14 MB, 2904x1687, Imperial space map.jpg)
    1.14 MB

    To play? No. As a plot point? HELL YES.

    "Agents, there are reports of strange disturbances in the gue'vesa quarter, it might be one of those cults of theirs, check it out."

    And when the players show up, he doesnt even need to go daemon host, he just needs to shoot lightning everywhere yelling "WITNESS YOUR DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM"
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:00 No.6746542

    I notice Kronus isn't on that map.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:00 No.6746543
    Well how much are these threats? Are you going the full blown usual Dark Heresy, wherein you shall be raped multiple time in all orifices or something the Tau might have a better chance in handling. A lighter mood or sticking to the grimdark that 40K is know for and, well, played for.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:02 No.6746559

    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:05 No.6746587
    I'll see if I can track that down, then.

    The mood I'm going for here is nobledark. It's true that the universe itself is quite a dark place, but the mood is more optimistic, which I think fits the Tau better than the grimmer mood associated with the Imperium.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:06 No.6746597
    I also like how in DC, when the Tau assault the Chaos stronghold, they cant hear Eliphas taunting them.
    "I'll enjoy destroying you, xeno. Come into my Parlor"
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:07 No.6746612
    All right. I'll keep that in mind as a possible plot point; I think that the Tau response will be to lobotomize its psykers, but that might involve a lot of trial and error.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:08 No.6746620
    So less dieing in pathetic manners? Okay so you might want to tone down the enemies and up the PCs.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:08 No.6746624

    It should have been the other way around, really. Warp beings have a hard time detecting the presence of Tau, not vice versa.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:09 No.6746632
    Yes terrible idea.

    If you're going to run a Tau game make it a Tau game, keep the Imperium of Man firmly in the background or as crazed fanatical adversaries who scream in a very harsh gutteral language.

    If you have human PC's have them looked down on and utilized by the Earth caste, as a hairy brutish builder-race. The Gue'vesa PC's should have no idea that the shit on Kronus they're working on is from their own race. Gue'vesa PC's should straight up consider IoM humans to be an alien race in their own right. An AdMech should be abhorrent and terrifying, you know? A space marine some sort of giant ogre-like monster.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:09 No.6746636
    chaos lord crashes all tau tech, and invade their dark and silent headquarter.

    one horror scenario for you. Mix of terminator 1 police station scene and Dark Floors
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:09 No.6746639
    Aren't the majority of Chaos forces human? I know that daemons have a hard time detecting Tau, but CSMs shouldn't have any problems.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:11 No.6746653
    I really want to point out that you are confusing people by linking this to Dark Heresy. Stop that, it has nothing to do with Dark Heresy. You are using the core rule set from the 40k RPG franchise (this includes Rogue Trader, because they are the *same rules*), and that is all.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:11 No.6746659
    It's still 40k, they should still die quite a lot... but yes, with Tau technology they're better off than an Inquisitor's acolytes.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:12 No.6746677
    It has a lot of the same ideas as Dark Heresy, just involving the Tau Outreach program instead of the Imperial Inquisition.

    Could you elaborate on what you meant by "the shit on Kronus?" Otherwise, I like those suggestions.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:13 No.6746685

    dude, no. Maybe some Gamma level born gue´vesa would be better.

    or anarchist psyker which they accidentally save from Black Ships, who wants to join them as highly psionic, she considers herself as their leader, and makes decisions over the Shas´o

    in the end, she is put down when she becomes magalomaniac and turns her mission to revenge the imperium to killing pretty much everybody
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:13 No.6746693
    Kronus had a lot of old Adeptus Mechanicus technology, some of which had been used by the Tau there.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:14 No.6746703
    I'd say give Tau psykers. Why? Nicassar.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:16 No.6746727
    Titan remnants and old Imperial Guard fortifications.

    >It has a lot of the same ideas as Dark Heresy,
    How? You are not a group of humans investigating heresy on behalf of an oversight group. You are group of alien special-forces engaged in extensive recon and sabotage.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:18 No.6746738
    Yeah if you are going to have a human Psyker just have him trained by the Nicassar. That entire race is Psychic. Their ships are sublight but all the propulsion comes from the captain moving the ship around with massive telekinesis.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:18 No.6746742
    I thought it was more internal security and investigating on recently taken worlds (up to a couple of generations back, human wise).
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:18 No.6746744
    That changed somewhere in the middle of the second thread. Now we're alien special forces defending our empire from hidden threats.

    Ah, yes. Thanks.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:20 No.6746754
    >They are described as having limited mobility and being unfit for ground combat, and so find their means of furthering the Greater Good by providing ships for the Tau fleet, especially for the roles of scouting and exploring.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:21 No.6746761
    What could be interesting is, first Chaos cults on Tau worlds.

    An interesting journey for the PCs, especially if you make it a powerful and EFFECTIVE Chaos cult. Begin to understand why the Imperium seeks Heresy with such zeal.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:22 No.6746772

    Aren't the Nicassar some kind of Jabba the Hutt-style space slugs?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:23 No.6746780
    I've been wondering about that. It's been a couple centuries since the Damocles Crusade and the introduction of the gue'vesa into the Empire. Why have no Chaos cults appeared before now? They don't require psykers, after all.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:23 No.6746782
    Hey Exalted if you really really really want a Tau allied ex-Librarian make him a part of rebel marines mercenary warband.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:24 No.6746791
    Who says they haven't?

    Inquisition isn't there to search for them, after all. Could be crawling under the Tau Empire.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:24 No.6746792
    I don't think there's been a definitive description but that's basically how I was picturing them. Giant slug-types with a few having massive telekinesis.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:25 No.6746797
    still stupid.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:26 No.6746805
    The Tau seem like they watch the gue'vesa rather closely, and there's no mention of Chaos in the codex. And Dark Crusade states that this is one of the few times the Tau and Chaos have had a major clash.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:26 No.6746809
    I just want to point out that to the Tau an Imperial Cult of self-flagellating "burn the heretic" chainsaw wielding fanatics would probably be indistinguishable from a Chaos cult.

    In fact it might look even more insane as they're making no attempt to try and convert you.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:26 No.6746810
    they are experts in hiding in shadows. And tau do not discriminate weird religious rituals, if they are no harm to anyone. Tau does not see difference between worshipping emperor and slaanesh. And again, why should they care, worship whatever you want

    but when women and kids start disappearing and found horribly mutilated and violated..."Yknow, Shash, i think theres something fishy in those guevesa" "yeah...me too"
    but normal tau might not be able to connect gods and acts
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:28 No.6746817

    The Tau aren't retarded. They routinely root out Genestealer cults and other threats to the Empire. They'd never have gotten as far as they did without policing themselves and their client races.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:28 No.6746820
    I'm not sure about that - as space commies they should be against any religion(opium for the masses)
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:29 No.6746839
    >see china
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:30 No.6746844
    rebel marines are known to work along xenos- during Badab War Astral Claws were using Xeno mercenaries themselves
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:30 No.6746845
    Well Chaos cults have quite a lot of training in hiding and keeping it secret.Maybe the Chaos cults are waiting for the opportunity to cause the most damage or trying to slowly corrupt things. Hell, perhaps they have done something but haven't been found out.

    Purely supposition, but quite possible.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:30 No.6746851
    I think that the Tau don't really care what religion their followers practice as long as it serves the Greater Good. However, they would be quick to respond against cults that became a threat to it.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:31 No.6746855
    >They routinely root out Genestealer cults
    Wait, what. I knew the Imperium put some in the Tau, I didn't know the Tau had found them yet.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:31 No.6746859
    or just rogue psyker. does power armor really matter so much?
    maybe one left the imperium because of endless hunting, and found (relative) peace and toleration in the Empire
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:32 No.6746860
    Why would all Chaos cults have the same training? From whom would gue'vesa cultists get training?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:32 No.6746862

    Radical Imperial inquisitors also use Xenos mercenaries. What's your point?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:32 No.6746863
    So they pretend to not be a threat. "We're just praying to our god. What harm can come from praying?" The Tau don't know much about Chaos.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:33 No.6746878
    Not all, but some. And from other cults. A lot of cults keep in contact with one another, teach each other tricks of the trade.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:33 No.6746881
    china when? now china has very little to do with hardcore communism but during cultural revolution they were closing temples and monasteries
    also soviet russia
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:34 No.6746890
    How would other cults sneak into the Tau Empire to tutor gue'vesa? For that matter, why would they bother?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:35 No.6746902
    Point: rebel marines could work for the tau
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:36 No.6746903
    Then the Tau won't do anything, but if their prayers start to do anything bad, or the cult starts attacking other people, the Tau will move in.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:37 No.6746918
    Cults that were already there before the Tau came in? Cults that went to the Tau willingly with the intent to spread the corruption?

    Why would they bother? Chaos to be caused, a new enemy to learn about, blood to be spilt for Khorne, new member for Nurgle's family, an interesting toy for Slaanesh who always likes a new pleasure and an empire to manipulate for the cause of Tzeentch.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:37 No.6746919

    They do know that when mutilated corpses appear or when people explode into daemonic entities they need to shoot all that shit until it dies. Hell, there's a canon fluff mention of a Water Caste diplomat that when he discovered that a Genestealer cult had infested high-ranking Tau families on a sept world just armed a Kroot kindred with Tau weapons and went in and killed the entire cult, including captured but not yet infected civilians. If the Tau can do that to themselves, there's not a lot they wouldn't do to non-Tau client races.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:38 No.6746929

    There's quite a leap between a marine chapter recruiting some xenos mercs and a marine chapter (no matter how renegade) flat out working for a xeno empire.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:39 No.6746937
    and (openly) insulting or discrimination ones faith would be anti-fellowship, agains greater good.

    we had already topic about this:

    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:39 No.6746941
    My point is the prayers will be doing something bad, but hard for the Tau to recognize that it's causing it. Small, tiny disturbances. Good Chaos cults are quite good at being subtle.

    Or a slow summoning ritual. Slow, small pieces each sermon. Perhaps slightly creepy and disturbing, odd, but it's a different culture, right? Edging closer to a goal, seeming innocent enough. And then it's complete and then it's FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU time.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:41 No.6746961
    All right. They're potential threats, but I think most of them will be relatively new. The Tau Empire hasn't been corrupted from within much yet.

    I know. It's not the faith that'd be causing problems.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:43 No.6746982
    So they be a little subtler, cover their tracks as best they can.

    The Inquisition who've had far more experience at this and jumps on even a sniff of Heresy has let some through the net. It's perfectly possible for a good one to succeed in the Tau empire. Long enough to do some damage, summon a demon or something. Then the Tau start killing shit.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:43 No.6746983
    *run into street, cut wrist, say magic words and turn into bloodthirster that fucks the weeaboo shit up*

    Khornes soldiers fight for freedom, see 2
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:44 No.6746995
    >their prayers start to do anything bad
    how would that work?
    I'm starting to get a medievil jew pogrom vibe from this:
    -someone gets sick
    -tau kill religious humas becouse surely they'r prayes did it(and it may or may not be true)
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:45 No.6747016
    noone said chapter-the warband can be as small as a tactical squad strong
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:47 No.6747031
    or how abot hereteks? Tau dont know how to treat machine spirits of ancient and powerful human machines, then weird fella in red robes jumps in and says "I CAN!"
    theyre like "ok, but doo it for greater.." "Yab, yab, cmon boys!"

    then the great facility has powers again. tau do not care how it works, why it works and should it work, but they let them work with the machines as long as they dont start to vivisect tau.

    so, heretek party in old water power facility! We have servitors and machine oil! Cmon brothers, to praise the Omnissiah!
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:47 No.6747033
    Like summoning daemons.

    That could happen, yes. It's making me wonder whether or not the Tau would try to use salvaged Necron technology against Chaos... apparently some of the energies the Necrons use are as abhorrent to the Warp as the Warp is to the Necrons.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:48 No.6747042
    Really, I think Tau have an advantage in that they can actually comprehend how the technology works.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:50 No.6747062
    machine spirit must be venerated. Tau do not know how to co-operate with them.

    machine spirits are not cold technology, but something more...something above
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:53 No.6747084
    Demons can be subtle too- not all of them are bloodletters, some may be invisible/living shadows/spirits etc.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:53 No.6747088
    if it is power source of tau village, i think that the people there would very likely start to attack their religion.
    conversely, they will probably kiss their asses
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)14:54 No.6747089
    So the Adeptus Mechanicus believes. Personally, I think they might be for an interesting shock if the Tau successfully reverse-engineer some decent Imperial technology.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:54 No.6747094

    Tau can use Imperial archaeotech successfully.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:55 No.6747100
    its an entirely personal view-machine spiriyts are as real or as much a myth as you want
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:56 No.6747107
    Example plz.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:56 No.6747111

    Look in the third thread.

    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:57 No.6747125
    Best hope they don't make really advanced AIs.

    Because then you get Iron Men. Iron Men are baaaaad.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:58 No.6747132

    This. The Tau might not be good targets for possession, but their AIs certainly are.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:58 No.6747134
    ...so Exalted do you have any PC Classes/races yet are are you still world-building??
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)14:59 No.6747142

    Actually the more advanced Imperial AI has biological components. So while a simple lasgun may not really have a spirit, a landraider could very well have a soul.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)15:02 No.6747174
    The third thread has some planned career paths. Basically, the castes are the classes. The Fire Caste has the paths of scout (pathfinder/stealthsuit operator) and battlesuit operator. The Earth Caste, I think, has engineer and scientist paths, while the Water Caste has diplomat and something else I haven't decided on yet. Air Caste will probably be unplayable.

    Kroot and gue'vesa will be playable, but will probably need special reasons to be in Outreach.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)15:12 No.6747277
    >Air Caste will probably be unplayable
    No vehicle specialist class? I mean I know they are suposed to be all pilots but there are some planetar crafts too. Also- why no Vespid - I can understand you didnt want to do PC's for some of the rare races like Nicassar becouse we dont realy know much about them but Vespic have their stats in 40k- it would be possible to convert them to DH.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)15:14 No.6747305
    I do want to use Vespids, but others have pointed out that only strain leaders can communicate with non-Vespids because of their communication helms.

    And thank you for reminding me about vehicle specialists. I think ground vehicles are piloted by the Fire Caste.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)15:21 No.6747379
    Tau are familiar with Chaos, they'll recognize a Chaos cult.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)15:24 No.6747413
    So's the Imperium, and they snap on Heresy a lot more. But some still are able to disguise themselves and slip through the net. Tau will be easier since they know less signs.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)15:26 No.6747424
    Well the PC's in DH are all above "normal" imperial citisen - they have some unusual traits that made Inquisitor selected them - if your going a silmilar route the vespid characters could be strain leaders or just recived comunication divices for some reason. Also ground military vehicles would be probably piloted by the Fire Caste(throu it doesnt mean that an air caste guy couldnt do it and wouldnt even be probably better at it), but what about non-military vechicles and not space-capable fyers?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)15:30 No.6747478
    The thing is that the Air Caste members aren't good at living at ground level anymore; they're adapted for much lower gravity environments. Non-military vehicles would probably be driven by Earth or Water caste members, depending on what they were doing. As for non-space-capable flyers, the Air Caste might do those.

    I'll take the Vespid thing into account, since I would like to have them as possible characters.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)15:47 No.6747654
    Here's a list of potential threats that Outreach could face:
    Chaos cults
    Genestealer cults
    Gue'vesa psykers
    Imperial insurgents
    Things like Necron uprisings and Ork attacks are just matters for the Fire Caste, I think. What other possible foes are there for Outreach?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)15:55 No.6747760
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:05 No.6747908
    -invastigating a groop of Kroot mercenaries who are suspected of working for someone other than the Tau
    -invasigating new alien races to check if they can and should be asked to join the empire
    -stealing/sabotaging technology of other unfriendly races
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:05 No.6747909
    Farsight operatives.

    Outreach would CRACK THE FUCK DOWN (in a quiet way) on any place where there were guys saying that the Ethereals weren't totally awesome, or where its suspected Farsight forces were getting supplied.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)16:23 No.6748099
    Back. Both of those sound quite interesting, especially the Farsight one... I think I might go for the angle that Farsight and his forces are just insane from lack of Ethereal contact, although that might be unpopular.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:26 No.6748131
    The Ethereals are controlling the Tau population. Farsight is no longer under that control and is resisting and undermining them. He's pissed off, hot headed, and likely out for blood, but he's not insane.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)16:28 No.6748155
    I think that is insane in Tau terms. They've been bred to be under Ethereal influence for thousands of years, and it's my personal suspicion that Farsight and his forces are slowly but surely degenerating.

    Maybe they'll even attempt to bring ultimate freedom to the Tau people by calling in Chaos...
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)16:38 No.6748273
    I'm bumping to call for a vote on Farsight's condition.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:40 No.6748299
    Pissed off and stabby.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)16:41 No.6748319
    And not going steadily insane?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:43 No.6748343
    Exalted, you may well want to look at the Disciples of the Dark Gods and Creatures Anaethama add-ons for Dark Heresy. They will give you a lot more information about the subtler kinds of Chaotic / xenos / heretical / obscuras threats.

    Halo Devices, for instance. Enslaver plagues. The Murder Room. Logician Cults and the associated SCIENCE! based horrors. The Pale Throng. Pit Things. Ambull Infestations. All these things and more, with information of how most of them go undetected until it is too late.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)16:45 No.6748370
    I'll do that, then, except possibly not including the ones that are too inevitably depressing.

    What would people playing in a Tau game want the mood to be? What would be the one in which you could get the most out of?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:46 No.6748382

    Don't make it obvious. Present multiple theories. It is very likely that the Farsight Enclaves themselves are pretty much beyond the empire anyway, your PCs will almost never run into Farsight himself. As such, Outreach can be open to many possible ideas. Some may wish to investigate this "chaos" phenominnon. Others a possible Necron link. Or just common or garden rebellion.

    You don't need to give a straight answer, so don't.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:52 No.6748448

    Everything in Warhammer 40,000 is inevitably depressing. The only thing saving the Tau is that they don't realise how screwed they are yet. They have the luxury of optimism. This is not the direction you want your game to go in, I suspect, so whatever.

    Personally I still think the theme is closer to Call of Cthulhu than straight Dark Heresy - I am a rational, happy man. Surely no harm can come from a boooooKKIIAAAAAA IA THE DARKNESS COMES.

    The journey from Innocence to enlightenment, in other words.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)16:54 No.6748465
    Something like that, probably. The Tau aren't that naive, though; they know that Chaos, the Necrons, and other things like that exist (the Tyranids they know intimately).
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:59 No.6748508

    I don't have a scanned page on Halo Devices, but I'd be really interested to see how Outreach deals with one. This is the description of what they do, from TV Tropes "Nightmare Fuel" section:

    "The Inquisition labels some threats not "Extremis Diabolus" (Daemonic/Chaos), "Hereticus Abomini" (heretical), or "Xenos Horrificus" (alien), but "obscuras" instead. The first example that springs to mind are the halo devices — small trinkets of unknown origin, the halo devices are indistinguishable from normal jewellery but somehow make you immortal. Wearing one will slowly start to de-age you until you're once again in the prime of your life. It then starts to sink into your flesh, and at this point you start having nightmares of eating human flesh. Your body slowly becomes stronger and tougher, healing from any wound. The third and final stage continues the process, except now you need to feed on other people to survive and your body starts to twist into something that could almost be called insectine... almost. Not that you'll mind, because by the third stage it just won't be you in there anymore. You're also indestructible and a single atom of ash from your corpse can revive you if it touches blood and an electrical current. And the very worst part of it? These things aren't created by any of the major players in 40k and nobody knows what they're for or where they came from. In a setting where Lovecraftian horrors are a known, expected and planned for occurrence. "
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)16:59 No.6748509
    Tau have the advantage of being able to develop new technology. Tyranid hive fleet detected, they send a few science ships to study, develop missile drones and then launch them at the fleet. Hive fleet destroyed, no losses on tau side.

    Compare this to the imperium where it takes 2000 years to get an emergency food shipment to a planet with a famine because it has to be OK'ed back on terra.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:06 No.6748566

    Doesn't always work like that. If the sector government isn't playing politics famines can be dealt with.

    Also, the tau can develop as many new technologies as they like, the Tyranids will learn to adapt very, very quickly. That's kind of the whole point.


    Again, I don't dispute that the Tau *as a race* are not as naive as sometimes portrayed, but they still have a lot to learn. And from an individual perspective, many Tau *are* that naive. An ethereal probably isn't, but your average caste Tau isn't going to know anything much about the wider universe, in the same way that the average Imperial citizen doesn't know that much about the wider universe. Both Tau and Imperial governments keep things from their respective citizens. Even those who join the Inquisition from jobs where they have seen some of those horrors can still be shocked and appalled by the things they witness. Your Outreach Tau PCs will very quickly be faced with terrible, terrible foes, worse even than those they would face on a normal battlefield.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)17:13 No.6748639
    Thats fair enough to say. Although I do wonder what the foes Outreach would face that are worse than things that might be found on the battlefield.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:17 No.6748674
    >your Outreach Tau PCs will very quickly be faced with terrible, terrible foes, worse even than those they would face on a normal battlefield.

    Yes. This is back alley, "Oh jesus what", dont-let-the general-population-know shit.

    Tau group's first encounter with serious mutation should be a big deal.

    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:17 No.6748681

    The Halo devices are linked to the Slaugh xenos species, right?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:21 No.6748739

    See Disciples of the Dark Gods and Creatures Aneathma. The Amaranthine Syndicate, for instance, has a terrible, terrible secret at it's core that even the Imperium doesn't fully know about.

    In a more general sense, think of it like this - the xenomorphs from alien are horrifying. They are fast, strong, acid for blood and all that. If you fought them on the battlefield they would be terrible opponents indeed.

    Once you know exactly how they breed, however, they become just that bit worse.

    Apply the same logic to any of the warhammer threats - chaos cults appear like religious looneys led by a mutated xeno creature to a fire warrior, but an Outreach operative who actually encounters a demon summoning and/or knows a little more about the warp is going to have a lot harder time.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:23 No.6748756

    Possibly, but probably not. You find them on cyclopean tomb worlds that have been long dead for countless millenia. They predate the Eldar. They are just too damn weird to properly classify.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:26 No.6748790

    Or the first time they deal with a Nurgle blessed plague.

    "How does this even work? It's mutating faster than anything I've ever seen before!"
    "Am I wrong... or does that bacterium have a Gue'la face?"

    It'll be worse than the corruption of "you know who" in Flight of the Eisenstein*, but made even worse because there will be no blessed weapons to fight it,

    *Don't want to spoil it. It's a really good bit.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)17:30 No.6748821
    Fair enough, all things considered...

    Heh. I'm beginning to think of some Tau starting to actually cling to Necron technology, since at least it's completely material... I wonder if it'd have its own maddening effects after a while?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:32 No.6748838
    I'd say only maddening at the whole "Rape of Physics" thing, or at the C'Tan, who want actually might not find the Tau all that filling. Madness is the realm of Chaos, Necron's are all business.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:35 No.6748864

    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)17:36 No.6748880
    I have to wonder if the Thur'abis labs will ever let Outreach members use the captured gauss flayers.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:38 No.6748912
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    I've heard this only once before, is it from new fluff or something? Is it something like the metal infecting his mind, or is he lossing it over the Necron's insane nano-tech?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:39 No.6748930
    I'd say something terrible is quite likely to happen if you start fiddling around with Necron tech at least.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)17:41 No.6748954
    New question: Should I also include Soulstorm in my canon, or is the game bad enough that it should remain discontinuity?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:42 No.6748958

    It's a line from Xenology. One of the Techpriests in the xeno research facility is a Necron cultists... sort of.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:47 No.6749011


    Guess what the Tau are lacking?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:48 No.6749019
    Caps to stand out more. my bad.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)17:49 No.6749030
    One Necron Warrior? Even if a few of them popped up, if the place was sufficiently guarded, they could be mowed down fairly easily.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:51 No.6749050
    You don't get it.

    This will continue to happen to the research facility.


    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:54 No.6749080
    So just keep a few combat drones handy.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)17:55 No.6749092
    Also, wouldn't they be more likely to teleport away after reanimating? I mean, there aren't enough intact Necrons around for their presence to be justified.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:57 No.6749102
    Actually they can just phase out even if they're reduced to baryonic particles. Which is why no one studies Necron technology unless the Necrons specifically want those particles to be there.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:57 No.6749109

    Alpha-category EMP inside the shielded lab and a few combat drones on standby outside it. Nicassar psykers in static positions providing the shielding. Presto!
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)17:58 No.6749119
    Well no, enough shooting fries enough liquid metal that they need to return to repair. Destroy even more of it and they're wasted totally.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)18:01 No.6749140
    I reiterate this question here.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:07 No.6749194

    Haven't played Soulstorm. What did the Tau do there?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:13 No.6749260

    Damn field was too long...

    Where to begin... Necron tech defies probing as much as warp tainted stuff. It doesn't follow any of the standard rules of boring things like physics, but because of SCIENCE! not DEMONS!

    People who use Necron technology usually come to sticky ends. It might attract more of them, as using powered up Necron gear near dormant Necrons tends to wake them up. Given that the only "safe" way to get Necron stuff is to take really heavily damaged bits from battlefields, you might end up having to take these bits down into the depths. This is always a bad idea. Always.

    It might have a personality of it's own. To quote from Alpha Centauri: "I think, and my thoughts cross the barrier into the synapses of the machine, just as the good doctor intended. But what I cannot shake, and what hints at things to come, is that thoughts cross back. In my dreams, the sensibility of the machine invades the periphery of my consciousness: dark, rigid, cold, alien. Evolution is at work here, but just what is evolving remains to be seen."
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:14 No.6749274

    Necron gear might do things like this. In one of the Ultramarine books, a space marine has his hand chopped off by an incarnation of the Night Bringer. Subsequently he has a bionic one fitted. This bionic later begins to self-repair from crippling damage. Why? It is never explained, but it causes a fair amount of psychological pain for the Space Marine (less so for the demented chaos warlord who eventually gets it, but still).

    Necron tech heals itself. Shoot a hole in it and it will regrow. In some cases, it acts very much like the liquid metal terminator from T2: Judgement Day. In one novel (one of the Word Bearer ones?) a Necron Lord reassembles from tens of thousands of very tiny scarabs that mesh together and dissolve into one form.

    The Void Dragon, he who dwells on Mars, can control machines. Some Necron tech also seems to be able to possess other pieces of technology. Now imagine what happens if the Tau have living metal built into a battle suit...
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:18 No.6749320

    Before anyone says anything, I am aware that Alpha Centauri is not Warhammer canon. It was intended to be an analogy.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)18:25 No.6749386
    This is making me start to think that the Tau will have a relationship with the Necrons similar to the one between the Imperium and Chaos: they hate and fear them, but at the same time are almost unwillingly fascinated by how they work. Which could lead to quite a few problems indeed, and Outreach might have its hands full in dealing with them.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:27 No.6749419
    Tau lose in SS. and since they lose to the Imperial guard, I imagine they lose badly.

    With Space Marines its shoot, purge, burn, and your done, with the average guard, who likely lost alot of friends, and can see the propaganda that goes against the EMPRAH everywhere, I can see it getting even more GRIMDARK then it needs to be.

    Outreach PCs in the SS planetary system, evacuating Tau citizens, and oh no a couple of the gue'vesa on board are IMPERIAL DOUBLE AGENTS!
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:28 No.6749430
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)18:31 No.6749476
    Well, technically the Tau lose in DC as well, but I changed that canon so they won. I'm tempted to do the same for Soulstorm and have them capture the Kauriva system, but it probably wouldn't be an Outreach bastion as much as Kronus, since Outreach grew out of the research facilities on Kronus.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:36 No.6749524

    Ha! This leads me to think that Outreach itself might become a tool of the C'Tan. They base themselves out of Thur'abis, they use Necron tech and actively look for more of the stuff to use/research, they could push for more living metal to be incorporated into Tau technology...

    The Deciever and some Necron Lords have been known to hide amongst living races, masquerading in order to further the goals of the C'Tan. They generally only appear *slightly* off compared to ordinary members of the race. Anyone urging a group to probe deeper into Necron ruins could potentially be a Necron sleeper agent. Even an Ethereal...

    Plus, the Necrons use psychic blanks to make Pariahs. Given that the Tau are already blunted souls, how long do you suppose it will be before more pariah Tau start to appear?

    Finally, unlike Chaos, the Necrons don't seem to care much about souls. The C'Tan are in it for the delicious life energy. What have the Tau got? Delicious life energy, but even less bothersome souls than anyone else! Yummy! When you factor in the disturbing parallels between the original, pre-metal skeleton Necrontyr and modern tau, it adds even more disturbing angles.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:38 No.6749552

    Getting a bit Drizzty there, boss. Beware of making the Tau into a super-special-aren't-we-so-unbeatable-and-noble-compared-to-everyone-else. Nobody likes that.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)18:45 No.6749649
    The Space Marines wouldn't like the competition?
    I'm not sure that winning two campaigns against decidedly un-united foes is really very overpowered.

    Intriguing... very intriguing. Thinking of everything to do with the Necrons as mindless killers could be a major error, and it'd certainly make for a good story, though I don't want to guarantee the doom of the Tau from their Necron research.

    I wonder if the C'Tan would somehow offer to help the Tau beat back Chaos?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:45 No.6749651
    A desperate "AAHHHH GET THE CIVIES ON THE TRANSPORTS! WE GOTTA GET INTO ORBIT BEFORE THEIR SHIPS CUT US OFF! WE DUST OFF IN FIVE, GET DOWN HERE OR YOU GET LEFT BEHIND!" situation with the PCs running around, picking up important intelligence documents, saving V.I.Ps and getting those Earth Caste Scientists, Engineers and those Client race civilians onto the evac transports all while the Imperial Guard gets closer and closer could be a good situation to work in.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:47 No.6749693
    I'm not sure that winning two campaigns against decidedly un-united foes is really very overpowered.

    But you can make that argument for every race involved in those campaigns.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)18:54 No.6749795
    That's more of a purely military Fire Caste operation, it seems to me.

    I know. The line about Space Marines was a joke. I don't think any race is overpowered.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:57 No.6749829

    No no, I meant that having un-united enemies is a factor that all forces involved faced, so I don't really see that as a reason to single the Tau out as being special enough to triumph twice in that situation.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)18:57 No.6749838
    Have the players go back, and see that half of the planets they had "saved" are now destroyed in some form or another.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)19:01 No.6749898
    It wouldn't necessarily be anything special about the Tau. They just had, in these instances, slightly better commanders, morale, or other things than their opponents. Their victories certainly wouldn't have been easy; of course, Kauriva isn't as important to the plot as Kronus, so I don't have to have it.

    Maybe the campaign can open while the war is still going on, and possibly have the PCs involved somehow...
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:02 No.6749908
    Exalted is a shit DM. You should have noticed that by now.

    Faggot should get back writing Kingdom Hearts fanfics on /v/.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:02 No.6749917
    >>6749651 (Samefag)

    Fire caste is whats keeping the Imperial Guard back, but they cant hold them off forever, and the local Ethereals need all the help they can get if they want to salvage anything from this failed operation.

    Enter the PCs.

    They dont do everything obviously, they just get the important stuff and help the Fire caste in charge of the evacuations where they can.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)19:05 No.6749955
    I admit that as a GM, I have no experience whatsoever, but what are things that you can see in my threads that I should work on?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:14 No.6750112
    Isn't it fucking obvious?

    Warhammer 40,000 is about heroism in the face of great danger.

    You're changing Warhammer 40,000 in a Saturday morning cartoon where difficulties are conquered by singing a happy song.




    That's what Warhammer 40,000 is about, deep down inside.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)19:17 No.6750155
    I thought Warhammer was about being heroic in the face of great danger by not screaming too loudly when the first extradimensional menace eats your soul. I'm lightening it just enough so that the players have a chance of actually securing long-term victories.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)19:18 No.6750170
    And I think that that verse is pretty much the feel of what I'm going for. Baseline 40K feels more to me like "Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum."
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:21 No.6750211
    Fuck it. You're too stupid for words.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:25 No.6750259
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    what do we do?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:29 No.6750322
    So his version isn't grimdark enough, and then you suggest Gurren Lagann instead?

    IMO, a tau group in Dark Heresy could probably play out leaning towards sanity-eroding horror style. Remember that the tau are young, naive, and on the galactic scale, mostly harmless. They severely underestimate the Empire, there's a story somewhere about a commander who thought he had killed Slaanesh (he simply offed a local cult leader), they probably haven't got a clue about just how many orks and 'nids they're surrounded by, they're basically clueless about psychics and the warp (and all the horrors lurking there), etc.

    Your players, being sent out to take a good look at the universe, will be amongst those who are the first to discover some of the horrors awaiting the tau. Things that can crush the mind of schola progenita graduates, despite their heavy protective layers of fanatical faith, hatred, and relative familiarity.

    So, yes, let them succeed in some goals. Lets them have the tau gain influence on some worlds. And in the process learn just how small the tau empire is, and how quickly it could all be for nothing. Just how would they take it if they discovered that their entire species is merely an experimental weapon developed by the eldar? Operating for extended periods away from ethereals probably won't help either.

    Welcome to the nightmare.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:33 No.6750388

    This is what a Tau dark heresy campaing should be.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:35 No.6750413
    Ignore this person, he's the same individual who's been hounding you in every thread.

    Personally, I like this idea. Alternate viewpoints would be really nice to have. Not only from the Tau, but why not the other factions as well? We could play as cultists trying to hide from an inquisitor while summoning a daemon to destroy the hive above.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)19:37 No.6750428
    I'll keep this in mind. It makes a good tone for the campaign, although they won't ever be intended to operate outside Ethereal range for too long, to prevent them from going crazy. The case of La'Kais from Fire Warrior would be proof enough of that.

    Also, how would you envision such a campaign ending? And is it acceptable for the Tau to retain their optimism, if definitely not their innocence?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:43 No.6750506
    As the remnants of your group climb out of the smoking wreckage, you watch the sun rise over the hills and illuminate the fields below, covered in the bones of mad gue'la and those unnameable creatures. They seem to be evaporating, but you turn away and head towards the dust off point. Nothing can undo what you have done, nor wipe away what you have seen. However, you know that your deeds here have bought time for the empire. A day, a month, a year, you don't know. But no matter the cost, no matter how many of your noble caste must perish and fall, you feel that any time at all is well worth the price.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)19:47 No.6750537
    Mmm, good. I think it captures the nobledark feel quite well.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:54 No.6750619
    My last post was quite long and seems to have been eaten. How odd. I'll try again in a minute.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:56 No.6750650

    Let's see if this works this time...

    Essentially, the 40k universe is grimdark by it's very nature. You cannot change that. It is very much a universe without hope, where the only people sane enough to stop the coming catastrophes, for whatever reason, cannot do so. The Necrons are waking up in ever greater numbers, the Tyranids are an unstoppable wave of eating machines, Chaos is never going to go away so long as mortals have souls, free will and sapience, the Eldar are dying and the Imperium of Man is about to fall (taking a good portion of the galaxy with it). The Tau have been spared this because they live on the fringes, but they will learn soon enough. This was actually one of the designer's objectives in the change from Codex: Tau to Codex: Tau Empire - the Tau have had to modify their ideals as they have encountered more of the horrors of the universe. As a species they aren't as naive as they were, but they are learning that their original way of doing things is tantamount to suicide.

    The thing you seem to be missing is that the *inhabitants* of the 40k universe do not have to be grimdark. Most of the sane ones aren't. Seriously, although it may not seem like it some times, there are even Inquisitors and Space Marines who try to do as much good as they can, however they can, in the face of overwhelming darkness. Sometimes they succeed, even if no-one will ever know about their successes (see that speech from Justicar Alaric of the grey Knights, for instance). Sometimes they fail. Most end up dead or insane, but they keep up the struggle to the end because it is the right thing to do. There will not be a long term victory in the sense that the Tyranids will be defeated, or Chaos annihilated. What they can do is protect what they can for one more day, one more year, one more century. In the end it might be futile, but it shouldn't stop you from trying. That's what makes it heroic.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:57 No.6750661

    The potential players for Ethereal Dawn come from this mindset. Most of them will be 40k fans. Most won't come from the same background that you have - you said in a previous thread that you originally came to the game to troll Imperial fans, but got attracted to the Tau because they appeared to be lighter than the rest. And so they are, but not nescessarily to the same extent as you seem to think. You risk alienating potential players by playing up the nobility of the Tau without also allowing them to exist in the 40k universe, with all of the potential for corruption, evil and horror that comes with it. We like the Tau, really, we do, but we many of us also like the fact that they are coming to terms with the fact that the Greater Good isn't really that great or good.

    Now... we come to the Tau Outreach project. They are at the cutting edge of the Tau's exploration of the darker side of the 40k universe. They have to be - they are Inquisition analogues, and they deal with horrible things as day-to-day routine. They are party to secret knowledge that breaks even the fanatically indoctrinated minds of Imperial servants. Worse still, they are learning this secret knowledge by becoming embroiled within it - at least in the Inquisition they tell you a bit about the threats you face first. A Tau is going to learn about the evils of Chaos by seeing it first-hand in all it's terrible glory, rather than being told from their earliest moments that "Chaos is bad, shun its works".

    You have to accept that long term victories won't really happen in a galaxy at war. What you can do is hold on for as long as you can, and try to hold onto at least some of your ideals.

    I'm sorry that this is a bit of a rant, and you may well disagree strongly with my assessment, but I felt it had to be said.

    >>6750322 is pretty much correct.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)19:59 No.6750684

    This all took some time to write, so it is quite possible that discussion has moved on since I started. Was kind of intended as a response to the more aggressive criticism.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)20:07 No.6750796
    I definitely appreciate you taking so much time to reply to me in so much detail. Rest assured that I have don't have an issue with the Tau confronting the galaxy of a billion horrors and emerging heavily scarred. What I don't like is the notion that everything is futile; if heroism really is futile, then it's pointless. There's no reason to not surrender your sanity and join Chaos, or lay down for the Necron gauss flayers, or fling yourself into the jaws of a hive tyrant, because nothing can be won anyway. And I really do detest that tone, because it makes a mockery of anything heroic that the players do.

    Hope is the most precious of all gifts, according to one Discworld book, and it's one that I really want to preserve. Whether or not the Tau do win, I want there to be the idea that they can, that if they're strong and clever and lucky, their efforts will not have been in vain, and even if the enemies can't be annihilated, the Tau can become stronger than they are so that they can drive them back again and again until the end of time.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:10 No.6750834
    >What I don't like is the notion that everything is futile; if heroism really is futile, then it's pointless.


    You don't say that the Imperial Guard fight a futile fight, or we'll fuck your shit up.

    >> Assuming they survive... Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:12 No.6750875
    I generally don't worry too much about endings until I get there, but some random thoughts...

    On the mission level, it could go pretty much either way. They could end up bringing back important information, technology, etc. They might be able to make a world declare for the Tau instead of the Imperium. Or perhaps full war breaks out as either side thinks that the situation is ripe for/demands military intervention.

    The mood is probably set mroe at the personal level. It is possible that the PC's retain some optimism I guess, especially if you allow some ethereal "help" there. Though no matter what, odds are that they'll be marked (insanity and corruption points and all that). One possibility being a situation where they might have done a good job at turning a world, but end up feeling that by doing so they might have helped doom their species, as every such steps brings a resolute Imperial response closer and closer.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)20:12 No.6750877
    Aside from this, I admit that my perspective may be badly skewed on one thing. I, personally, like and admire the philosophy of the Greater Good, and believe that I would enjoy life in the Tau Empire. In a way, the Tau are almost a wish fulfillment fantasy for me; I wish humans could be more like Tau, and the idea of these small, weak, but incredibly adaptable and organized people using their strengths to triumph against the horrors of the galaxy is a very seductive one. I'm doing my best to keep it believable, but some of that bias may be seeping in.
    >> Continued Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:13 No.6750881
    How society reacts to them, well, assuming they don't end up going rogue entirely (for whatever reason, thinking the ethereals don't know what's for the greater good, rats leaving the sinking ship, egoism surfacing as ethereal influence is lost), then depending on the outcome they may simply be transferred elsewhere, they might be set up for another job, or perhaps welcomed as heroes and given a cushy retirement. Though relating to the "mentally marked" bits from above, odds are that if command has a clue, then they will be considered a risk from now on, so they will at the very least be under some surveillance for the rest of their lives, or perhaps be allowed to retire to some place far from it all, where there just happens to be constant ethereal supervision, and plenty of fire warriors around (who, while polite, will never socialize with them). Of course, in the case of more severe/obvious issues they may simply end up in the loony bin.

    Basically, they may or may not get the job done (as long as the job isn't too grand in scope of course, keep it at a few planets or so, something a tyranid splinter fleet could eat in a week). But there's a high price to be paid just for trying.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:16 No.6750928
    It is. Just a little.

    I think what you need to do, at least if you want to ensure that you're still playing in the 40k setting, is that every victory comes with a price, and the greater the triumph the more terrible the sacrifice. That and that curiosity will more often than not have horrible consequences. Especially when it comes to dealing with the big names of the setting.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:17 No.6750938
    >What I don't like is the notion that everything is futile; if heroism really is futile, then it's pointless. There's no reason to not surrender your sanity and join Chaos

    Congratulations friend, you have taken the first step on the road to Father Nurgle's embrace.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:19 No.6750973
    Indeed. That's the terrible realisation most people come to when they ask too many questions and seek too many answers. Some of them keep fighting for various reasons, others surrender to hopelessness. Most are driven insane by the knowledge and/or kill themselves.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:21 No.6751001
    I think fluffing for this project is practically finished, what is needed now is crunch. Career paths, new Tau-related skills and talents, example characters, that sort of thing.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:23 No.6751028

    It's from Going Postal. If you recall, it accompanies a bit involving a new and shiny spoon - hope is nice, but it doesn't always get you very far.

    We actually agree to a certain extent. What I think you should allow for is that some Tau *will* simply fling themselves into the abyss rather than try and face it. Probably not the PCs, no, but it has to be a real risk. Some people may want to play as these very damaged individuals who reject the norms of the society, or who have been forced to as a result of outside pressures - see the popularity in Dark Heresy of demonic pacts, radicalism in general and playing as "bad guys". It's fun to be bad!

    The other thing to bear in mind is that the constant struggle against the darkness is pretty much the only long term victory you can get in 40k. The Tau are coming to terms with that, and it should really be one of the things that Outreach understand better than anyone. That's what you have to emphasise - it is a horrible, terrifying struggle, that will kill many, corrupt others and drive the survivors mad, but if it buys one more day for the Tau Empire then it is worth it. *That* fits into the 40k universe. A victory at high cost that won't necessarily mean much in the long run, but was totally worth it at the time.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:24 No.6751040
    Incidentally, the quote I was referring to in >>6750650 is this:

    "We do not know what our chances of survival are, so we fight as if they were zero. We do not know what we are facing, so we fight as if it was the dark gods themselves. No one will remember us now and we may never be buried beneath Titan, so we will build our own memorial here. The Chapter might lose us and the Imperium might never know we existed, but the Enemy - the Enemy will know. The Enemy will remember. We will hurt it so badly that it will never forget us until the stars burn out and the Emperor vanquishes it at the end of time. When Chaos is dying, its last thought will be of us. That is our memorial -carved into the heart of Chaos. We cannot lose, Grey Knights. We have already won."
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:26 No.6751064
    >>6750796 What I don't like is the notion that everything is futile; if heroism really is futile, then it's pointless. There's no reason to not surrender your sanity and join Chaos

    Everyone dies some day. Your kids too, nothing to do about that. Perhaps you can't even save them from being torn apart by something with teeth and claws and spines, and eyes and tentacles and hunger and hatred.

    But if you fight bravely, and fight well, then today might not be their day. Maybe you can by them a little more time. Time to live and love and smile. And maybe, just maybe, to find a kinder fate.

    That is your hope, this is your gun. Now go, death is waiting.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:26 No.6751067

    >but why not the other factions as well?

    I'd like to play an RT game as Eldar Corsairs.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)20:26 No.6751068
    All right. I've decided that, in the end, and if the players can find it, there'll be a way to win a victory that, while it may well scour their minds raw and very likely lead to their deaths, will elevate the Tau Empire to among the most powerful forces in the galaxy. I won't mention it here because of spoilers, but tell me if you really, really want to know what it is.

    Since I'm not all that familiar with the ruleset, my ingenuity probably won't be that much help there. But yes, we're running out of fluff ideas, so help on crunch will be greatly appreciated.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:29 No.6751107

    Also, Exalted, I know you addressed this before with the '>100 Insanity over your life and you're out' thing, but really, counselling with an ethereal is not going to do a great deal to remove IP. Sure, they emit calming pheromones - but the Imperial analogue, the subtly warp-based power of faith matches that on the other side. And it still takes you 250xp to remove each insanity point - that's your entire XP from your entire career to drop you a mere 60IP.

    Psychological scars - especially chaotic/xenos ones, and the sort that you get from executing entire colonies of 'deviant Farsight Tau' (and you would inevitably end up having to do something like that) - go much deeper than just 'lol counsel it away'. You're going to end up having to give the operatives 'early retirement' packages on a fairly regular basis, or rebuild their personalities, cult-style, on a regular basis - the damage caused by which would be immense.

    I just don't see how it's going to seem plausible if the Tau are somehow immune (or able to bounce back good as new) to the ravages of the 41st millennium.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)20:37 No.6751209
    It wouldn't be easy to get rid of insanity points, certainly. You'd still need to spend experience points and time. The main difference here is that it's possible to lower one's state of madness and get rid of disorders; quite frankly, I think that should have been an option in DH itself. The difference here, it seems to me, is that faith is kind of a solo thing. The Tau can heal themselves with faith assisted by Ethereal presence, and the combined effect strikes me as being a bit more powerful.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:41 No.6751259
    >>6751068 will elevate the Tau Empire to among the most powerful forces in the galaxy

    That will take a complete miracle. They lack the manpower, they lack the manufacturing capacity, they lack the raw materials, they don't have the warp travel tech, they don't know what they're up against, they're caught in between hostile and aggressive forces, and farsight just might end up ripping their society apart with civil war.

    >>6751068 Since I'm not all that familiar with the ruleset, my ingenuity probably won't be that much help there.
    I'd give a fire warrior BS, S, T and Per similar to an Imperial guardsman. Ag a bit lower, Int perhaps slightly higher. Heck knows about WP and Fel. Go from there.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:43 No.6751287
    Example Tau Water Caste stats from Inquisitor. I think they are comparable to DH/RT.

    WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
    20 35 45 45 55 75 85 60 85
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)20:46 No.6751320
    It'll be ironic if a complete miracle befalls the atheistic Tau, certainly. But it won't be by fiat; they'll have to be really, really good in order to score any kind of a chance at it.

    And yes, I will go from there. Thanks.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:52 No.6751415
    >>6751209 faith is kind of a solo thing
    Not with ministorum clerics around it ain't. They've helped hundreds before, they'll help you as well, and if you seem too far gone they'll get a flamethrower before you can spread the taint.

    Lets put it like this. In our current society, with counselling, antidepressants, faith and all that, there's enormous issues with PTSD, depression, suicide, drug abuse etc amongst veterans from Iraq and similar.

    In 40k, you don't get insanity points fro IEDs and ambushes, you gets them from people naield to the ceiling by their entrails. You get them when an otherwise normal looking six year old genestealer cult child produces a pair of claws and rips your bests friends head off, despite his combat armor. You get them when the sick and dying lying on the floor are ripped apart by a host of plaguebearers entering reality, everything you find revolting and sick given physical form in blatant defiance of what's possible.

    An ethereal might be able to suppress some of the symptoms of the scars this leaves, but frankly, the only cure is a double hit of potassium cyanide with some aconite for flavouring.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:52 No.6751416

    Eeehh, be very wary about transferring directly from Inquisitor, as it tends to make the stats a bit higher, to the point where it could get very silly. If I recall correctly, doing so would also make Space Marines even bigger rape machines than they are already in Dark Heresy. Have a look at the Eldar or other Xeno stats in Creatures Anaethma.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:53 No.6751442
    IIRC the inquisitor scale goes 0-100 for humans (a marine having what, 200 S in Inq?), while DH goes 0-50.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:55 No.6751481

    So, to adapt I'd need to halve the stats?
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)20:58 No.6751537

    This also raises another question: even if talking to an ethereal relieves some of the strain, where do the ethereals themselves go for help? As far as I know the pheromone thing doesn't work on other ethereals, although it is funny to think that they all get a bit stoned if they come together in groups.

    The ethereals (or water caste psych teams) are going to be exposed to the same amount of memetic hazards as the teams, albeit sometimes second hand. Some may well end up gibbering wrecks from all of the forbidden knowledge they have to carry with them.

    Might explain why they get progressively more hands off over time - in the early days they were happy to talk directly to the teams, but an Ethereal snaps after being told the plot of "The Emperor in Yellow" one too many times they move to the background. REMEMBER! Ethereals are not immune from the wiles of chaos, or the lure of ancient and forbidden lore!
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 11/17/09(Tue)21:00 No.6751567
    Sadly, I have to leave for the night now. It's been interesting talking to you all, though, and I have the thread archived. I'll make a new one tomorrow and may focus more on the crunch, although there are one or two more fluff issues I'd like to discuss too.
    >> Anonymous 11/17/09(Tue)21:00 No.6751568
    It's start, though some fiddling around might be needed to make it work nicely afterwards. Don't expect it to translate straight over just like that. The systems differ in mroe than just the scale lengths.

    And then there's the issue of Sagacity, Nerve and Leadership vs Perception, Personality and Fellowship.

    Can't quite remember if willpower was exactly the same in the two either.

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