Bumpan with a random image.

One centering solely on thievery. The entire economy will be a series of con games, heists, and outright muggings, and kobolds employing other kobolds to do the stealing for them. The kobolds will claim that the aristocracy are made up of the greatest thieves, with the greatest of all as their sovereign. This is patently untrue; the greatest thieves are completely anonymous, while the most obvious and flamboyant are made aristocracy so everyone else can keep eyes on them.

>>6875490

Kobolds are Ferengi?

>>6875490
That's pretty slick, but uh - who produces the food and whatnot?

if it's swampy and marshy and shit, I'd look at southern hemisphere cultures for inspiration, southern asia, america and africa.

>>6875508
A group that believes they are stealing it from the eart-No that's stupid.

Assuming some large and vicious predators, they could just live off've bush food and hunting.

>>6875508

Why, the farmers do. They have every intent of using some of those turnips to top out several bushels of rocks, and passing some of the rest off as mandrake roots, but are beat to the punch by an enterprising local pilferer who saw the harvest come in. Ironically enough, he replaced said turnips with bushels of rocks.

>>6875536
.. I like that. I like that a lot.

>>6875439
There will be at least one city-state, populated almost entirely by wizards/mages and an army of worker-solidier constructs. Why? Since Konolds are capable of achieveing godhood (Pun-Pun), they might be more then able to develop good understanding of mystical.

>>6875545
Fuck Pun-Pun. No setting should include that little fucker.

Kobold thread?

>>6875554
He should be nerfed, and put as a patron dietry of Kobolds - or Kobold dietry of cheating and power.

>>6875508
The society exists entirely by farming, butchering and eating cutebolds.

HELLO

>>6875593

>>6875615
OH GOD MY EYES!

>>6875615
HELLO

>>6875631
SUP

>>6875639
SURE IS FUN BEING A KOBOLD

Would this society be a subterfugeocracy?

>>6875648
HELLO

>>6875648
>>6875639
>>6875631
>>6875615

Would you kindly piss off? This thread might actually be going somewhere.

>>6875648
GET DOWN FROM THERE

>Would this society be a subterfugeocracy?
What the hell is a subterfugeocracy?

>>6875662

>>6875682

I... no idea. I think he meant a society where skill at subterfuge decides your rank.

uh...hi?

>>6875682

A hack-word way of saying "a society in which underhandedness equals merit"?

>>6875698
Like the Sith? Or like an order of pro spies?

Seriously though, it'd be fundamentally like a massive dwarven empire: a bunch of mines, where all inhabitants love working and mining and giving all they can to the society.

Dwarves and kobolds have much more in common than you'd think. Kobolds are just even more hardworking, even greater miners, and treat all other races quite suspiciously. Also traps and vietcong and sorcerers and swarming, if anyone's stupid enough to try and invade.

Read some Races of the Dragon. It's all there.

>>6875717
Pro spies, presumably.

>>6875716

>>herpa derp capitalism

>>6875717

Think Poland, but the small scaly people are actually Kobolds.

>>6875730
I thought kobolds were only hardworking when fear was involved.

>>6875743
You... you idiot.

>>6875684
Crackbolds?

Wouldn't they just stay as a bunch of tribes led by shamans? It's not as though there's any pressure to do it differently.

>>6875747
Nope. What kobolds want most is to be useful. Their society is like communism except it works because they're fundamentally selfless and always put the commune before themselves.

>>6875807
That runs almost entirely contrary to the image I've always had of the conniving little bastards. How does it fit into the fact that they're related to dragons, arrogant wankers that they are?

>>6875807

DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM.

PICTURE RELATED, YOU FILTHY RED.

>>6875822
They are conniving little bastards, but only to other races.

>>6875822
.. why is that.. thing stealing mugs?

>>6875859

Somebody stole his

>>6875859

Because Thrazdug is payin' top coin for good quality mugs and such! (Note: Thrazdug is paying in gold-plated lead slugs.)

One one hand, we have sneaky conniving kobolds who hones their skill and cunning against each other, which is awesome.

On the other, we have dutiful hard-working kobolds who strive to better the colony with their every ounce of strength.

I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE TO LIKE MORE.

Oh, and my brain finally unseized and gave me the name of a mode of governance centered around thievery: a kleptocracy.

>>6875898
Thieving con man carny folk who work for the family group.

>>6875914

Beautiful.

For some reason I'm picturing a culture with heavily regulated thievery, like Ankh-Morpork - trading terms between clans would include acceptable theft values and whatnot.

>>6875898
DON'T YOU GET IT, THEY'RE BOTH

First to other races, that strive to keep them down. Second to each other, their loyal friends and comrades.

>>6875944
That doesn't work in the absence of other races and threats.

Kobold kleptocracy is especially insidious to outsiders. It's an ancient kobold custom to give a series of seemingly extravagant gifts, all the while fleecing them of everything they came with. Travelers tend to leave with a warm new traveling cloak (which will come unstitched if someone so much as tugs on it), a pocket full of coins and gems (mostly fake), and a broad grin (the witless bastards).

It's starting to smell an awful lot like kender in here. Am I going to have to get the shovel and a bucket for the remains?

>>6875948
Then it's just the second one. If they do see other races... they might be a bit suspicious about them, but the interracial relations would be, in general, much better.

>>6876000
But that's boring. Kleptobolds are far more interesting.

>>6875807
I thought it'd be more like facism, with some sort of powerful leader

Obviously your standard kobold is just an honest fella who works to feed his clan.

The nobility and administration, on the other hand, are so deeply entrenched in sneaky underhand pseudowarfare that it comes as naturally as breathing.

>>6875985

Kender aren't thieves; they're light-fingered and forgetful, and will take great offense at being called a thief. Some "mislaying" is bound to happen around Kender, but not too much. Kleptobolds are thieves clear down to their bones. Calling a Kleptobold a dirty thief is like bestowing them with a title of nobility. They'll steal everything that's not nailed down, and come back with a pry bar for the rest.

>>6876043
>dragon age dwarf society, but with kobolds.
Original idea bro.

>>6876043
Most of them are evil, so they would exploit as for their own ends

>>6876091
Kobolds aren't really evil as such, just underhand, cowardly and self-serving.

Skaven with gender equality and no enemies.

>>6876096
A vast, decrepit empire that functions almost solely by consuming the underdog?

>>6876015
Yeah, but it's not what the OP would want. He just asked what they would do if developed in peace, which I figured means in CANON. And in CANON, they're not kleptobolds.

Sure, you can go developing them into something else, but it's not what was asked, and as such I didn't think we would immediately start deviating horribly from canon.

>>6876107
I don't mind twisting canon, and to be honest I always pictured them as sneaky sods anyway.

Kobolds are clearly facist.

>>6876112
Well okay, but I still don't like the kleptobold idea. Remind me too much of kender.

>>6876112
Stealing is more like DF kobolds.

>>6875898
DnD kobolds are still sneaky and cunning imo, but they prefer to work to achieve their goals.

Kobolds just want to be left alone! They live in peace with each other and in balance with the natural world! Why can't you accept and love them!?

>>6876173
Kobolds need to expand as their population grows, if the world is pretty well populated this would mean it's time to battle.

>>6876173

Because he's "accepting and loving" my compass. The one that was in my pocket less than five minutes ago. And is that my dagger?!?

>>6876058

Kender are thieving bastards who try to get away with their thieving bastard ways by being small and cute, blah blah blah so pure and innocent.

Bullshit, they're just sticky-fingered motherfuckers who no one in their right mind should trust further than they could easily dropkick them. You can't even intimidate them into not stealing your shit, because they're racially incapable of feeling fear. As such, the only reliable way to keep them from thieving bastardry is to take a hatchet to their thieving bastard fingers.

Pic related.

>>6876187
Infact thinking about this, OP's society is likely to consist of multiple clans/states. There could be infighting, or they may have breeding limits set up to keep the population down.

Everyone here should be reading Races of the Dragon before claiming stuff.

>>6876209
>they may have breeding limits set up to keep the population down.

You know this would be interesting. Because normally, kobolds just have as much sex and with as many other kobolds as possible, in order to bring as many new kobolds to this world as possible. It's their duty to the clan and stuff.

But if you limit reproduction, their sexual lives will become much more stable, and they might actually go and find someone they care about. In short, limit mindless sex, and the amount of LOVE skyrockets.

I support this.

>>6876202

DORF-LIKE TYPING DETECTED

>>6876215
>My particular chosen wankery is better than your wankery! Pay attention to meeeeee!

*oh-you.jpg*

>>6876235
Well at least my particular chosen wankery is SUPPORTED BY CANON.

CANON WINS. YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID.

>>6876235
Meh, RotD supports just about everything we love about kobolds. It also tells us some more stuff we love about them. You should read it, whatever the case.

But of course it doesn't have kleptobolds, so you won't care.

>>6875623
So kobolds practically worship dragons. What would one's reaction be if he ever got the chance to sleep with one?

>>6876250
>implying WotC's take on a mythical creature is unassailable canon

I can imagine they'd become a very highly organised society, probably monarchy system or chieftan system with family/clan heads as a government with a very communist swing on everyone sharing crap and working together.
Mostly mining and cave farming I'd guess as well, about 99.9% of a Kobold city would be underground. They'd love mountains because they could build up into them from the base and end up with a huge spire.

You fight like a kobold!

>>6876229
Another possibility is that authority might select breeding pairs to strengthen the race.

>>6876253

I'll ste- I mean PURCHASE a copy. Yes, PURCHASE, because stealing is badong. Thanks.

>>6876267
RotD is to kobolds what chocolate is to ice cream: everyone loves it and won't even go thinking there might be other kinds in existence. And there also aren't.

>But I like vanill-

Shush, you're ruining my metaphor.

>>6876257
If Jesus wanted to sleep with you, what'd your reaction be?

>>6876278

WHY ARE YOU SO SMALL! I CAN HARDLY HIT YOU FUCKERS!

>>6876352
(Not that anon)
I'd be like wtf you don't exist, lol.
Otherwise I'd be like you died, lol.
Then I'd be like, we're both guys that doesn't work.
Assuming I want to make your metaphor work, I did worship jesus (and he was alive), and I was female...
Well I'd be honoured that such a high person would choose me, and would find it hard to refuse.

>>6876278
How appropriate. You fight like a rat leather cloak.

>>6876257
..why do I find that picture adorable?

>>6876312
Kleptobold detected.

There would be no kobold society because adventurers would have slaughtered them all already.

>>6876321
I think the quintessential kobold gives some indication of what variation there could be between different kobold clans. Even though it's just 3rd party fluff, it has a type of kleptobold I think.

ITT: people seem to think that canon matters in the slightest.

>>6876474
Well, it's also a good book. Plus it doesn't much deviate from RotD. Might as well read both.

I don't think kobolds have ever been thieves, really, in any continuity.

>>6876395
Um, because it IS adorable?

>>6876507
Vore is not adorable.

>>6876507
Dwarf Fortress.

If it's a jungle continent you could throw in some ancient overgrown ruins like every setting ever. Kleptobolds could be the kobolds version of adventurers, spending their time plundering temples like demented lizardlike Indiana Jones knockoffs.

>>6876519
The only true continuity for /tg/, amirite?

It's funny because those who play Dorf Fortress usually hate kobolds and think they're just little pricks. Everyone else considers them trapping badasses.

>>6876535
I like this. The stay-at-home commie kobolds would stay in the clan cave, tending the crops and churning out baby kobolds, while the more sneakery-oriented ones would go out to gather wealth for the glory of the clan.

>>6876550
There's also the miners, who really do get most of the wealth gathered up. There aren't many adventurers, and even less of them are really successful.

Those adventures that do get lucky, usually manage to pile up pretty great deal of gold for their clans, but it's still but the barest fraction of the wealth the miners gather. At least in gold: the kleptobolds would of course include some real archeologists, who would find some awesome history and shit. That'd be neat.

>>6876576
>>6876550
>>6876535

You are now imagining Raiders of the Lost Arc with the entire cast replaced with kobolds.

>>6876589
If any drawfag out there would like to draw a pic of this, I'd really appreciate it.

>>6876540
I don't know anyone who plays DF and hates kobolds. They're harmless pests at worst, and DF is what introduced Kobold Camp (which began most of the cutebold drawfagging)

>>6876686
Well, -there's- a good reason to hate it. Fucking cutebolds.

>>6876698
CUTEBOLDS.

Since the DM is running a fantasy D&D game, I think the kleptocratic kobolds provides a better framework for adventure hooks. However, there's something to be said for keeping these kobolds away from the kender, and I think there is a ready-made way for accomplishing that goal--malevolence.

To my knowledge, kender are not evil, just compulsive. The Kobold Kleptocracy, on the other hand, would contain backstabbing on par with Dune's kanly or the intrigue of dark elven nobles.

I like how everyone in this thread assumes that a kobold society will ever accomplish anything apart from building one more mud hut than they would have otherwise.

Then again, traps. Expand on that. It's a place with no enemy races and no adventurers, imagine all the work and ingenuity that went into traps instead goes into engineering, construction and architecture. Hell, they might even have steam power, not to mention fuckawesome cities. As far as purely societal issues go: city states, each ruled by a dragon, or a half-dragon 'bold, plus representatives of various guilds. Breeding rights would be given as an high honor, with new candidates selected each year or so.
And make kleptobolds wage wars of assassins, with possible goals including eliminating the ruler, certain memebers of city council and so on.

Kobolds have continued their skill at trapmaking not because they have to defend their lairs against adventurers, but against each other. Since there is no law against theft, a kobold who can't make a decent trap is like a farmer who can't build a fence. They don't think twice about, either--in a thousand years of relative peace, it has become a domestic skill.

It is very rare for one kobold to show another kobold his traps. Usually, this is only done as a courtship ritual: the male kobold demonstrates his trapbuilding skills, thus proving his worth as a mate who can protect his home and property.

"You showed her your trap? On a third date? She'll steal more than your heart, little brother."

>>6876882
These are DnD kobolds, not cutebold camp.

Does OP's party have a rogue?

>>6876909
This still somehow assumes that this won't simply lead to a larger and well-fed jaguar population, and the founding of the first gourmet restaurant for ropers.

>>6876896
>>6876891
WTF is up with the intelligent discourse /tg/? Shouldn't you be trolling? :)

>>6876927
I think it's a safe assumption, given their opposable thumbs. A sturdy wall handles both the problems you mention and is well within the scope of kobold engineering.

>>6876896
On the canon mainland, there are no such laws. Might not be the case with the OP's kobolds, or the new continent's ones. Besides, imagine the PC's reaction to a prosperous, peacful kobold civilization... 'WHOA, THEY can do THAT?'. Make it better developed and more advanced than anything they've seen before for extra lulz. Also: no apparent wars.

>>6876960
peaceful* that is

>>6876896
I think we can build upon this one.

>>6876960
Given that history they'd probably be a lawful neutral race, who would treat visitors without the high intensity of suspicion as those exposed to compeition.

>>6876960
Could do both. Perhaps the kleptocracy works great, leading to stunning achievements of architecture where traps become cornerstones of design.

Imagine the PCs reaction to a prosperous, peaceful kobold civilization that still acts like kobolds.

>>6876951
>sturdy wall
>within kobold engineering capabilities

>>6876989
If you can build a dart trap, you can pile rocks on top of each other. :p

>>6876999
>>6876989
That's more like it.

>>6876989
You need to purge yourself of Dorf Fortress and cutebolds. That, or you're just trolling. In which case, you get 0/10.

>>6876989
They are as intelligent as humans.

This thread makes me happy.

>>6877009
Four responses implys a pretty sucessful troll.

The biggest obstacle to the development of an advanced kobold civilisation is their relatively short lifespan - I seem to recall that kobolds are mature adults by the age of six or so, and likely reach old age correspondingly early. Such a short lifespan makes it difficult for any individual kobold to achieve the level of other races' master artisans, simply because they don't have long enough to learn the skills. To an individual kobold, time is precious and not to be wasted.

As such, most kobold engineering will likely be extremely functional and pragmatic in nature, along the lines of "good enough for army work" - as long as it does the job adequately, it doesn't matter if it's aesthetically pleasing or as finely-wrought as the work of dwarven smiths or human craftsmen.

It also means that methods of passing down the accumulated knowledge of the tribe will be extremely valuable, as it saves the kobolds from having to reinvent the wheel every time. Older craftsbolds will teach classes of apprentices the tricks of their chosen trade, which might lead to the development of "schools" for every conceivable industry, based on the techniques of the teaching master. Some kobold masons know how to break rocks just right in order to fit together into dry-stone walls, while other masons have the knowledge of how to grind up certain minerals to make mortar. Both schools can build a wall, but take different approaches.

Knowledge could be passed down in the form of libraries or oral traditions (with specialised foremen or overseers who don't have the manual skills of the labourers, but do know how thick you need to make that wall so that it won't fall down or how many twists of catgut will provide enough tension for a given trap to work properly), or it could be in the form of a dragon who acts as the tribe's loremaster and record-keeper.

>>6877068
RotD puts them in middle age at 60 years. They outlive humans.

>>6877088

Well, crap. Scratch that, then.

>>6877088
(Same guy)
Noteably on the same page it regards kobolds in the age range of 41-60 years as old. It doesn't have any indication when an aged kobold becomes a burdon on society.

>>6877113
It does state that kobolds can live up to 130 years, although they rarely do because of other shit. And they never become "burdens to society": at the very least, old kobolds are wise as fuck.

Where do kobolds get poison for their traps?

So what of these dragons--still worshipped as god-like beings?

>>6877572
I'd think the dragons would be more like wise old benefactors or living relics - a legitimate kobold civ would need record-keepers and treasurers and assuming the dragons were willing they would probably fit that role quite well.

>>6877580
>assuming the dragons were willing

Why wouldn't they? Kobolds are commonly kept as servants for dragons, in just about all settings where both are included, because kobolds can actually mine stuff and they give it all to the dragons free of charge because they worship them.

It's a glorious symbiosis.

>>6877562
Arsenic can be mined, and poisons from various critters can be milked. etc

>>6877635
Fortunately for dragnos Kobolds don't have much use for the gold and precious metals they mine, though I think they'd be more reluctant to part with gemstones. The dragons are going to get some great wealth.

So we have a race of industrious, family-minded kobolds whose skill and obsession with trapmaking is redirected into architecture and engineering. They've got a sweet deal going on with the dragons, who provide them with magic and administration in return for gold. The dodgier kobolds have their kleptomania redirected into scavenging for artifacts or scouting out new areas for mining or farming.

Hot damn, this would be a great setting for a campaign.

>>6877531
>>6875623
I hate this guy so much.

aztec style religion, warrior nomad society

kobolds are trap laying psychos, not fucking Kender

stealing isn't their gimmick

>>6877729
>>6877726

Read the thread before you post, gentlemen.

>my group's unified setting

Enjoy your Furries and Faggots.

>>6877743
God damn it anon I was hoping against all reason that you would be intelligent enough not to refer to that shitheap. Fuck you.

>>6877737
I read a bunch of faggots assuming kobolds are kender...

>>6877721
Nothing new here at all. It's the classical kobolds we all know and love.

>>6877755
We haven't be treating them as evil kender for about half the thread now.

>>6877764
Except they aren't being oppressed by the other races and have had a while to accomplish some shit.

>>6877764
>classical kobolds
>industrious and family-minded

>>6877774
They've managed to always accomplish plenty of awesome stuff, and the oppression hasn't been quite as bad as you might think.

This just removes the oppression and ups the accomplishments to eleven. And I approve.

>>6877781
>Family-minded

Kobolds put great energy and care into fostering kobold
wyrmlings. Few experiences are more gratifying to an
adult kobold than being treated as a model for the life of
a young kobold.
Kobold adults go out of their way to encourage juveniles
who show promise, to steep them in the traditions of kobold
culture. Kobolds teach using simple instruction and swift
punishment in case of error or failure. Punishment is often
physical in nature, though usually geared toward causing
instructive pain rather than injury.

>Industrious

Next to children, kobolds love work—and by natural
extension, their tribe—more than anything else. For
a kobold, work defi nes life, fi lling her with a sense of
belonging and purpose. Even young kobolds exhibit this
feeling as they start to mimic working adults early in their
lives. A kobold who does not lend a hand is useless and
threatened with exile.

I rest my case.

>>6877783
>They've managed to always accomplish plenty of awesome stuff

like... living as slaves or barely sustainable tribes in horribly dangerous filthy dungeons?

>>6877783
Man, I just wanna see a crazy industrial city, kobold style.

>>6877792
where the fuck are you getting this shit from? another retarded 4e retcon?

You guys know that you aren't required to stick to D&D canon, right? OP just said that it was a setting, not that it was D&D.

>>6877794
Nope.

Seriously, this shit isn't that hard.

>>6877805

>>6877805
It's 3.5e. Feel free to retcon all you want, just respect the canon.

>>6877795
/r/ing drawfag version of this

>>6877821
so 3.5e kobolds are hyper-lawful and basically just hobgoblins without the military tradition

>>6877795
Their cities really kinda rival the dorfs.

Shit, this thread is still here? Crazy. For reference, kobolds in the rest of the setting are downtrodden wretches who either live in small tribes in caves, work for a dragon, or make up part of the lowest class in the cities of other races.

>>6877835
To each other, yeah.

To other races... not so much. They fucking hate gnomes especially.

>>6877840
and what if these kobolds immigrated to the kobold continent? what kind of welcome could they expect? are kobolds more or less xenophobic than humans?

>>6877857
Presumably if they're willing to work, they'll find a place. This thread implies several times that there's still plenty of unexplored area on the continent.

>>6877806
DnD seems like the most logical outlet for a setting including kobolds.
We could all go ahead and invent our own variant of kobolds each with a different society based on whatever we're inspired by. He might as well have asked 'what societies have humans developed over thousands of years of peace'. But he said Kobolds, so I assumed that he was thinking of some sort of model for Kobolds and was wondering how it would have developed in a different scene.

I expect reports on how you build the continent and what the players do while exploring it, OP.

>>6877875
This. We play 3.5 and generally kobolds are treated as sword fodder, so I thought it'd be interesting to see how it could be done differently.

rolled 49 = 49

>>6875966

Kobold society would be like living in Thailand.

This thread is lovely and should be archived for future generations.

Regarding dragons, and assuming they are evil:

As administrators and keepers of history surrounded by a society that worships them, I imagine the dragons have been able to grow quite old and powerful. Surely their servants have built them all manner of wondrous palace as well, providing yet another impetus for architectural achievements.

With so few dragon slayers about, there are probably enough dragons to provide at least one to every small city. Just as humanity might have races of feuding noble houses, so too might these dragons have feuding noble families that manipulate the kleptocracy against one another.

For each family of record keepers, there is a separate version of history, one that places them above their draconic rivals.

Such circumstances led themselves to high level adventure areas where draconic families meet to plot in secrecy and where councils of dragons assemble to decide the fate of their lessers.

>>6877881
>kobolds are treated as sword fodder

And that suits them just fine. They like to be underestimated.

>>6877864
I had assumed that their rate of breeding would lead them to conquer most of the continent.

hence >>6876209

>>6877948
All the better if some dragons are good. That'd easily lead into several wars and bring some excitement to the whole continent.

>>6877948
This bothers me on account of sustainability--this doesn't sound like the kind of government that could last for a thousand years of relative peace.

>>6877962
Perhaps there are dragons who don't want to deal with kobolds, and actively prey on their cities?

>>6877973
There's no reason to think that they've had the same system set up for the entire time. Also, OP's premise is flawed in that no realistic society functions for a solid thousand years without a hiccup or two.

>>6877977
Seconded. Even relative peace should include certain danger.

>>6877977
Unlikely. It'd be like crocodiles beginning to hunt those little birds that keep picking their teeth clean. Or humans shooting all their dogs.

You don't go hunting down your own loyal servants. It's just common sense.

>>6877977
And thus our PCs find their first patron.

>>6877973
since kobolds are taught to religiously venerate the dragons and they're weak as shit in comparison anyway, serious feuds between dragons that would result in war in a human society instead result in DRAGON FIGHTS, NO KOBOLDS DRAGONS ONLY

>>6877996
And the danger comes from the fact that not all dragons are evil: >>6877970

They all have kobolds to serve them, but the dragons are the ones in charge. And they have several empires of different alignments, that occasionally go to war with each other.

>>6878002
Keep in mind we're talking about kobolds who may actually have cannons, ballistae and advanced sorcery at their disposal. Also, dragons are prideful bastards and a kobold society would probably demand more from the dragons who cooperate with them than usual.

>>6877977
>>6877996
that's stupid

take a unique setting and generify it why don't you

>>6878016
This society would deal with dragons on a daily basis and have a sort of symbiosis going on - I doubt they'd see them as Gods so much as extremely powerful allies.

>>6878027
Conflict has to come from somewhere, broski. Do you have any suggestions?

>>6878002
Unlikely, yes. Uncommon, certainly. But I can think of several reasons that a dragon might oppose the kobold kleptocracy. Perhaps they fear the growing power of the kobolds, and believe that the time will come when they rise up and cast off their draconic overlords. Perhaps they are from a disgraced and shattered house and strike from hiding as part of a prolonged revenge against their attackers. Perhaps they despise the relative bloodlessness of their continent and sew strife just to watch something burn.

>>6878041
Yeah, gnome barbarians.

>>6878056
>take a unique setting and generify it why don't you

>>6878041
See >>6878017

>>6878065
There's nothing generic about gnome barbarians.

Why do kobolds hate gnomes anyway? They seem like they have a lot in common.

>>6878041
Keep ignoring me, why don'tcha: >>6878017

I feel like a dragon would have to be literally insane or in exile to pass up a fabulous wealthy lifestyle tended to by an entire society of servants in favor of living in a cave in the woods.

>>6878071
It's a god thing. Glittergold was a prick and fucked up Kurtulmak for no reason.

Y'know, you could have the kobolds ruling over the dragons. That'd be a fairly new approach, and it'd make it clearer why other dragons are like FUCK NO, KOBOLDS.

>>6878086
But what would that make dragons? Especially well-cared for beasts of war?

An underground cult of a lawful neutral/unaligned god(dess) of civilization is particularly keen on destroying the dragons so that the kobold empire can grow unyoked.

Another potential PC patron.

>>6878072
The conflict comment was aimed at the dude saying that having dragon wars was taking a unique setting and turning it generic.

>>6878096
No one said that.

>>6878091
Exceptionally rich and powerful co-rulers?

>>6878086
If we're sticking to DnD without making the kobolds stupid powerful, true dragons in this situation would need to be put to death in early adulthood to keep them in line.

>>6878096
He just commented upon dragons themselves attacking kobolds. He never said anything about dragons leading kobolds into war against other dragons and their kobolds.

Which... really is rather generic too, to be sure. But it's pretty likely to happen if there are dragons of both good and evil. And if dragons are sentient creatures, that means they're capable of both, so that's logical too.

>>6878101
>Perhaps there are dragons who don't want to deal with kobolds, and actively prey on their cities?
>Seconded. Even relative peace should include certain danger.

The response:
>that's stupid
>take a unique setting and generify it why don't you

because garl faggotgold is a massive faggot, as his name implies. and he collapsed the kobold god's home for no reason whatsoever. and somehow he is the good guy and kobos are evil.

its bullshit propaganda.

in all my campaigns, gnomes are evil dicks and kobolds are the good guy underdogs

>>6878114
..oh. Fuck, my bad. Sorry.

>>6877977
Despite a few other posts saying otherwise, I think yes some dragons would prefer not to be around kobolds and may go as far as attacking them.

>>6878041
I can't see why (groups of) kobold clans won't fight like human countries do. Conflicting religous beliefs do that sort of thing- maybe one group worships a red dragon, another a silver.

>>6878117
is a kobold in disguise. Don't trust him.

>>6878111
That's true. Maybe the dragons make up half the government, or something - or, alternatively, the kobolds are the only ones who can mine then some kind of mineral/metal that they need to survive.

Not OP, but I'm totally using this thread.

>>6878135
I think inter-tribe conflict would be good for keeping the population down, too.

Maybe there are neutral grounds, like the major cities. That'd mean that the kobolds had a major trading center, a seat of government and an opportunity for crazy architecture and dragon temples.

>>6878140
FUCK YOU, GNOME-LOVER

>>6878155
Most dragons are uninterested in day-to-day management and let the kobolds handle most of their own affairs.

>>6878179
So rather than the standard overlord and serfs relationship, they've got more of a mutual benefit jig going? The dragons get gold and don't really need to do much, and in exchange they maybe teach the kobold sorcerers magic, advise them about stuff, or assist them in war?

Archived. http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6875439/

>>6878117
You're looking at the stories from the Kobold's perspective. The gnome god would have been provoked by kobold traps, mischief and perhaps more malicious acts. I haven't actually read the Gnome's side of the story I might search for it at some point.

Someday, someone's going to bring back kobolds that exist independantly of dragons, and the world will fucking end.

>>6878198
I like how we keep making new concepts about kobolds and homebrewing and stuff, and all we end up with is get right back in where we started. Nothing ever changes.

>>6878198
yup

>>6878241

Kobolds.

Kobolds never change.

Fuck your dragons. Kobolds killed the fucking dragons hundreds of years back and now they run their own shit. Society is based around a bunch of city-states, with the cities themselves neutral ground for the purposes of trading. The only centralized government they have is an informal circle of elders that meets once a year to discuss shit and beat each other up. The dragons that remain lurk in the wilderness and sulk, and occasionally get murdered by pogroms from nearby kobold settlements.

FUCK YOUR DRAGONS, BITCH.

>>6878241
but with 70% more flavor text

>>6878270
That's right - fuck that shit! I'm playing a new game.

It's called Dungeons and Kobolds

>>6878270
Also, gnomes. There are cities where gnomes are accepted and welcomed by kobolds who aren't fundamentalist faggots, thanks to the influence of dragons being removed. These cities build technological shit like you wouldn't believe, such as clockwork ballistae guns and single-serve pudding cups.

>>6878288
I'd play the shit out of that game.

>>6878301
do not want

gnomes should be dirty nomads living in the jungle. basically caucasian pgymies with pointy ears.

>>6878301
Actually, it's not the dragons who influence kobolds to be against gnomes, it's Kurtulmak. Some kobolds have moved away from him, to worship Io or Bahamut or some other god, and they're a lot more tolerable about gnomes.

>>6878314
Oh fuck, gnomes are the Ewoks of Koboldland.

>>6878241
Well, if we change the kobolds overmuch, then we just have a new race that steals the physical design of the D&D kobold. I see this thread as less of a reinvention and more of an extrapolation, wherein we study the mechanics (bonuses with traps) and existing lore (evil, subservient to dragons) to create a fascinating prediction of how these factors would grow if left to grow into a civilization unchecked.

The problem with keeping the dragon subservience thing is that dragons like kobolds to be dirty little servants. No way in hell would a dragon tolerate a majestic kobold city or an independant kobold government.

This place needs a name.

But what if love could bloom between dragon and kobold? What then?

>>6878335
Unless of course, it served a bigger purpose for the dragon overall

>>6878335
>No way in hell would a dragon tolerate a majestic kobold city

given that the dragon lives in said city he might be more sympathetic

>an independant kobold government.

even the dingy little tribes that grow up around dragons in dungeons have their own thing going on, dragons don't like to micromanage

>>6878335
>dragons like kobolds to be dirty little servants

Source?

>>6878355
Fribgriblus.

>>6878335
Not true either. Dragons treat kobolds pretty respectably, actually, more like trusted servants than dirty useless slaves.

>>6878355
BBEGs.

I like the idea of warring dragon-led tribes with a central neutral city for trading and treaties. I'm picturing a great big temple-studded monstrosity, though.

>>6878357
wikipedia says there's a famous kobold called Heinzelman

so name the place Heinzelmania and give the kobolds a germanic flavor to their culture

>>6878386
meant to quote
>>6878351

Kobotopia

So what do kobold adventurers from Koboldland kill in dungeons?

>>6878406
Gnomes.

>>6878382
For an empire, wouldn't there be more than one major city? A capitol would exist, yeah, but given the noble houses mentioned above, I also see there being several other cities that would be more or less neutral depending on current politics. A war might make certain ethnicities unwelcome, but trade would still occur. And gem-studded monasteries.

>>6878413
Well, I was thinking that there would be a holy site that was -always- neutral. The capitols would fluctuate and get sieged, but the central city would always be available. I mean, dragons are shrewd enough to know that war cuts into the amount of gold flowing into their hoard.

I think we're in autosage.

>>6878406
Underdark races are viable, as well as the usual assortment of oozes, undead, aberrations, etc.

How would kobold relationships and sex work in Kobotopia?

Also, thinly veiled request for kobold porn

>>6878406
Undead.

Evil kobold sorcerers who have decided to stray away from the tribe and go conquering and slaughtering and shit.

Evil kobold sorcerers commanding hordes undead.

For higher levels, dragons of opposing alignments to the ones inhabiting their home cities.

>>6878370
This, a large Kobold city is largely inconsiquential to the dragons desires. It would still have its donations and (elite) slaves, and the Kobold would respect it's thoughts and opinions. Perhaps they'd even restrict the size of their city if desired.

Also: OP mentioned 'there might be a few dragons' which hints that most kobold citys wouldn't have a dragon.

>>6878434
Same thing than in canon: they fuck around like crazy, trying to make as many new kobolds as possible to maintain their economy, but they also make some real emotional attachments and even get married. It's just that if you fuck your neighbour in a human society, you get shit thrown at you - but do the same in kobold society and nobody cares.

"Hey hun, I was just at the second door knocking up some chicks."
"That's great darling, wipe your feet before coming in."

I would draw it as a land of self deception.

Industrious little good hearted dummies live in small tribal groups and spend their short lives mining, growing fungi and mosses, farming rats, brewing mud ale in miasmic pools, making simple tools from driftwood, sharp rocks, and sinew, collecting pet pebbles, paying tribute to the elders who pay the taxes, and always trying to get a good deal out of anyone who comes along.

There might be some larger settlements with some expansive mine systems beneath and a feudal aristocracy ruling with some semblance of order, ultimately worshiping the big bad dragonlords who seem to dominate every aspect of life with cruel and harsh rule (but the few remaining dragons merely enjoy being fed and don't care much about the going ons of the little critters).

But behind this facade of neutrality and obedience, every Kobold knows he can get an edge for himself. As long as he can maintain an image of innocence he will lie, steal, and kill if there's something shiny in it for him. This is why they are rarely found alone or in pairs, crowds have eyes and provide security.

A band of Kobolds will be friendly, if reserved, and a powerful ally if treated nicely. But they will cut your throat while you're sleeping.

Just imagine a horde of Gollums, edit in some Galaxy Quest child-aliens, and top it off with a little cutebold.

Cutebold steal the Emprah power armor and recreate the imperium. (I'd play them)