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  • File : 1274824028.jpg-(171 KB, 504x779, deadlands-main-ch.jpg)
    171 KB Card-Based RPG: Sons of the Gun Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)17:47 No.10052988  
    (Name temporary until I think of a better one or the Wild Cards guys start yelling at me.)

    I was on here last night brainstorming, and there seemed to be some interest, so I'm doing it again.

    Sons of the Gun is a role-playing system that exclusively uses playing cards. Each character has four stats: Grit (strength, toughness, athleticism), Gumption (wits, willpower, ability to cope with fear), Quickness (agility, manual dexterity, and reflexes), and Slickness (ability to deceive, manipulate, and influence others, as well as general larceny). Each stat is assigned a number (around 5 for an average human) and a card suit. To make a check, bet a card (from a hand of 5, dealt at the beginning of any situation warranting it). Add it's value to the value of the relevant stat, plus one if the suits match. If your total is higher than the DC, or your opponent's total, the check succeeds.

    That's the basic mechanic - it still needs testing but it looks good on paper. I'm moving on to skills next, and I'd like any input you have to offer. I'm currently thinking that a character's skills should add to their stat in certain situations (for example, a Fast Talk skill would add to Slickness when you're bluffing someone). However, a skill can never be trained higher than it's associated stat (so if you're a snake-oil salesman with a Slickness of 7, your Fast Talk skill can't be higher than 7).

    I'm still thinking of more skills to add, so feel free to offer any suggestions. Also, if anyone who was interested wants to know more about combat, rituals, or talents (which are still being worked on) I'll gladly answer questions.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:07 No.10053389
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    Bump, with an example of combat.

    In SotG, combat is all opposed checks - your attack vs. your opponent's defense. Melee attacks are based on Grit, and ranged attacks are based on Quickness. Likewise, blocking or rolling with a hit is Grit, and dodging is Quickness. Currently, characters are able to block bullets - I'm not sure how to fix this exactly, but I'm working on it.

    Damage is calculated by the difference between the attacker's check and the defender's check - if the attacker's is higher, the difference is the damage the defender takes. This only works one-way (if the defender's check is higher, he doesn't deal damage to the attacker. There might be a Counterattack talent, though).

    It'll be easier to explain with an example.

    Silas, a bounty hunter, has been hired to take down a dangerous native named River Runs Red. He's tracked him into a small canyon - River is alone, but still dangerous. Once the two spot each other, they draw their weapons.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:07 No.10053402
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    Silas' player is dealt 5 cards. The Dealer (GM) also deals himself 5 cards, since River is a rather important npc. The two bet cards to determine their initiative - this is a simple quickness check that results in a turn order, like in DnD. Silas has 6 Quickness, suited Spades. River has 7, suited Clubs. Silas thinks his chances are better if he goes first, so he bets his best card - a Jack of Spades. Silas' total is 18 (6 + 11 for the Jack + 1 for being suited). River reveals a four of hearts - not a very good card. His total is 12 (7 + 4 + 1 - his Quickness is suited Hearts).

    So Silas goes first. He draws his revolver and shoots. Unfortunately, the rest of his cards aren't too great - he bets a 6 of Clubs, so his total is 14 (6 + 6 + 2 - his revolver grants him a bonus. All equipment works like this, though I haven't hammered out the details yet). River dodges, betting a 10 of Spades for a total of 17. Silas' shot ricochets off of the canyon wall, missing River.

    River's turn comes up, and he charges with a tomahawk. He attacks using his Grit (5, suited Diamonds), betting a 4 of Clubs for a total of 9. Silas decides to block, but his Grit is only 4 (Diamonds), being a gunfighter rather than a brawler. His highest card left is a 3, so he's taking some damage this turn. He bets it anyways, to minimize the wound. River's 9 beats Silas' 7, and Silas takes 2 damage. At this point, the round is over. Both characters have spent 2 cards each, so they have 3 left in their hands. Combat continues this way until one or the other is incapacitated - if it takes too long, each character is dealt another hand of cards when their original hand is exhausted.

    So that's combat, and yes Silas was an idiot for blocking instead of dodging, but I felt it illustrated the system better.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:08 No.10053414
    Wildcards is one of the best things /tg/ has done.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:16 No.10053546
    I'd just like to say, I like it.
    I really don't have much to add, seeing as I just lurk this board, not being much of an RPG player or a Wild West fan.

    But its good. I'd play it.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:17 No.10053567
    Yeah, it looks playable
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:19 No.10053600
    >River has 7, suited Clubs
    >His total is 12 (7 + 4 + 1 - his Quickness is suited Hearts).

    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:21 No.10053623
    I typed that up on the spot, and I have porn open in another window so I'm not exactly concentrating on it. You'll notice I also said they each spent 2 cards, not 3 (forgot initiative).

    But it gets the point across well enough I guess. Maybe I can focus enough to come up with some skills.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:22 No.10053650
    this actually sounds pretty cool. Especially since it doesn't require anything specialized to play, just a normal deck of cards
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:23 No.10053657
    Silas's Hand:
    Jack of Spades
    6 of Clubs
    3 of ?

    GM's hand:
    4 of Hearts
    10 of Spades
    4 of Clubs

    Wait so is the first card drawn for initiative just luck of the draw? Like pull a card off the top of the deck?

    Or are you shelling one out of your hand at your choosing?
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:23 No.10053668
    wildwest porn?
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:25 No.10053687
    >each character is dealt another hand of cards when their original hand is exhausted.
    so running out of cards would actually be an advantage? that sounds weird.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:27 No.10053719
    As I understand it, each player is on even playing ground, soooo each get a little boost on the third round, if it happens to go that far. I guess it would be a "hurry up" kind of deal.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:27 No.10053720
    I should've explained better.

    Whenever you get into a situation that requires a check or checks, you're dealt a hand of 5 cards. You bet a card of your choosing to make the check. In this way, you have more control over your character than by rolling dice. However, you don't receive a new hand until yours is completely gone, so betting good cards early could be counterproductive. Additionally, if you have cards left in your hand after making a check, you don't get a new hand until 10 minutes pass in game (like taking a short rest to recover encounter powers in 4e).

    So you COULD use that ace to break down the boards covering the old mine, but who knows what bandits/wild animals/cthulian horrors lie in wait within . . . better save it.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:27 No.10053724
    Ace of Spades = Natural 20 ?
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:28 No.10053739
    Ahh alright, that's what I thought.
    I likey.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:29 No.10053764
    Card values for checks:

    Number cards: Face value
    Jack: 11
    Queen: 11 (beats Jack in event of a tie)
    King: 11 (beats Jack and Queen in event of a tie)
    Ace: Automatic success
    Joker: Critical success (extra effect, as determined by Dealer. Usually double damage in combat).
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:30 No.10053779
    curious what are you leaning towards for the weapon developement

    like the revolver is +2, would you get these at shops? or would each character have its own set weapon
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:32 No.10053807
    perhaps if the player wanted to use one of the cards from his hand at one point he could upgrade his gun?

    say if he has an ace or a king or whatever and he uses it in a town, he could get an upgraded weapon? such as Silas could upgrade to get a completely new gun thats +3 if he draws that card in a town
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:32 No.10053809
    Seems like a cool base for a system. The gamist in me wants to add some abilities to fuck around with the cards in one hand and shit though.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:32 No.10053814
    I endorse the Wild Cards!
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:32 No.10053817
    Being suited should be +2. +1 Seems like a pretty insignificant boost for such a core mechanic
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:33 No.10053829
    if a certain combination of cards were drawn special things could happen
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:34 No.10053846

    A of Spades
    A of Clubs
    8 of Spades
    8 of Clubs
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:34 No.10053850

    yeah, this. There should be some kind of bonus for having a full house/flush/straight or whatever
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:35 No.10053853
    I kinda like that idea. Perhaps if you have a pair or something, discard that for a certain advantage.

    Of course, we're probably getting ahead of ourselves on that one.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:36 No.10053864
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    Shit yes this. If drawing a Dead Man's Hand isn't fuckawesome/ohshiiiiiii, then I don't know what the fuck.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:36 No.10053870
    I was actually going to have a monetary system and just let people buy equipment in towns. The +2 revolver was a hastily-created example, but it illustrates how equipment works.

    Weapons or armor add to your Grit or Quickness for combat. Melee weapons (like a tomahawk or cavalry saber) add to Grit, while ranged ones (bows and guns) add to Quickness. "Tough" armor (like thick fur and leather, or some antique conquistador plate) add to Grit, while long flowy things (dusters and other things that obscure your shape) add to Quickness. Other equipment adds to stats as appropriate (some nice lockpicks would add to your Slickness check when opening a locked door, for example).

    And before anyone asks, the money system will be based on 1800's US dollars. $200 is enough to buy a small ranch and settle down for the rest of your life. A decent gun costs maybe $15.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:36 No.10053875
    it'd have to be big, due to losing two cards in a single blow.

    Like really big.

    Like you get a fucking horse.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:37 No.10053890
    Not really. From what I understand, you get a new hand when your current one is empty.

    If I'm wrong on that, then the system is quite different from what I thought it was, in a very interesting way.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:37 No.10053891
    Pairs aren't necessarily that great. A pair of threes, for example, wasn't exactly begging to be used.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:37 No.10053892
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    'Sup, dude.

    (Okay, so it uses Poker dice, but it's still the best Western RPG you've never given a shit about.)
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:38 No.10053913
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    >card based rpgs

    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:39 No.10053920
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:39 No.10053934

    Yeah, a pair is nothing

    A straight flush on the other hand, should be a fucking instakill
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:40 No.10053952
    Straight Flush = You're kicked out of the game and sent to Vegas, highrolla.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:40 No.10053954
    I had this as an optional rule. If you have a valid poker hand, you can bet multiple cards at once - bigger expenditure, bigger reward. A full house, straight flush, or four-of-a-kind all count as a critical success.

    A good suggestion. I was trying to keep the numbers smaller than most other games (I hate it when a level one character in a vidya gaem deals 100+ damage on average, simply because higher numbers make nerds happy).

    As a corollary to the hand-bet rule, special hands would be a good idea . . .

    I actually created this independently from Wild Cards, but I'm giving those guys free reign with this system if they like it. Right now I'm thinking of Sons of the Gun as a system, with Wild Cards as a campaign setting.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:41 No.10053962
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    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:41 No.10053965
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    'Sup, dude.

    (Okay, so it's fantasy, but it's still the best card-based RPG you've never given a shit about.)
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:41 No.10053970
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    You talking to me boy?
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:42 No.10053980
    Both of these were mentioned in the thread last night. I've yet to take a look at them. I really should sometime . . .
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:42 No.10053981
    what if your players played out their hands face down?

    In other words, as they declare actions and play a card, they lay it face down. This continues until the hand is exhausted and all actions (5, I guess?) are declared.

    Them, the dm and the pc reveal their cards one by one for their associated actions, and resolve combat.

    Just brainstorming. Trying to add in a little gambling and suspense as you don't know what you're trying to oppose exactly.

    Also, you could give a bonus for playing a hand. Such as, go through each action one by one, and when the card is flipped that reveals the hand to a be a (insert poker hand here), you assign a bonus to the action that corresponds to the card that was flipped that completed the hand
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:42 No.10053983
    >implying Gamma World isn't the best Western RPG I've ever heard about.

    I play post apocalyptic stuff as if I was a gunslinger.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:44 No.10054012
    I really, really like the general idea of it (I wasn't satisfied with Deadlands either). But being the nerd I am, I'm already trying to figure out how to up the tactical elements (or is that tacticool?).
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:45 No.10054026
    It takes some of the "skill" out of it, it seems.
    Any joe shmo can lay down his cards in a random order, it loses its fun if its just a game of War in the Wild West.

    Like, having AW SHIT moments when you realize you just put down that card that you needed, but last turn.

    I dunno.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:47 No.10054060
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    Card based games through me off somethin' fierce.

    Its like why bother making a character or trying to roleplay when I have to do what the cards say, like dice rolling for stats, whats the point of playing a caster with bad caster stats because your roll wasn't so great?
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:48 No.10054075

    Making the Aces (and Jokers) automatic successes seems a little off to me and makes it seem a little too "luck of the draw" based. Giving them special effects (not too potent obviously) seems more apt, for example making the aces work similar to how they do in blackjack: the player using one has to call aces high or aces low (for 11 and 1 respectively) and that decision sticks for all players until everyone gets a new hand.

    Also, perhaps you should put refreshing empty hands at the end of a round? That way, if a player blew through their entire hand fairly quickly, the other players would have to keep him alive until the end of that round for him to get a new hand. Plus it allows for a group to wear down a larger target by forcing him to use all his cards before the end of a round.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:48 No.10054079
    look at it this way:

    You're playing your hand. Now, do you blow your big card on your first attack for maximum damage, or do you hold onto it for later so you can survive the inevitable counterattack?

    Also, do you play your cards individually, or do you organize them so that, when your 4 actions into combat, bleeding and shot up, SUDDENLY FULL HOUSE BIATCH and perform a miraculous headshot (or some shit)

    You have a ton of options, and choosing to play your cards wisely puts you at an advantage over someone just laying down random cards.
    Especially if your dm that is opposing you will be facing the same choices.
    I just feel like if you're playing your cards face up, it's basically "play the cards in order from highest to lowest, all time every time"
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:49 No.10054088
    wat? Even if you have point buy for char gen, afterwards you're going to be rolling dice unless you're playing diceless.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:50 No.10054104
    By tactical elements, you mean like miniatures?

    I brushed over the idea briefly. I guess your character's speed could be his Quickness in squares (so an average joe moves 5 squares a round), which makes that simple. If minis are used, you could do stuff like flanking and line-of-sight easier.

    Of course, this might have nothing to do with what you're thinking about.

    Oh, while I'm here, HP:
    Simple as hell. At character generation, your max HP is Grit or Gumption (whichever is higher) + a randomly drawn card. Whenever you want to improve your character, you can spend XP (called chips, to keep up the poker theme) to add another card to your HP total.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:51 No.10054116
    I just realized that having rules for lesser poker hands and shit means you can keep certain cards in hopes of getting, say, a three of a kind. That makes it a bit more interesting.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:52 No.10054138
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    Well you'll be rolling dice for what you do, talking, fighting, sneakin' and such, but its not like you'll have to roll for your stats again except when you roll your health when you level up.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:52 No.10054142
    I mean like options. More options in terms of what to do other than 'Play highest card' or 'save highest card'.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:53 No.10054149
    So do point buy for char gen? Nothing preventing you from doing that anymore than it is in a dice based system.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:54 No.10054166
    Chargen works 2 ways:

    1. Point-buy.
    All your stats start at 1, and you have 16 points to distribute as you see fit. The point pool can be increased for a high-powered game, or decreased for a wild-west-cthulhu-oh-shit-we're-all-dead game. After assigning values, you pick a suit for each stat (you can use the same suit more than once, if you like).

    2. Random
    Draw 4 cards. These cards are the value and suit of your stats. Assign them as you see fit. Face cards are valued at 11, and aces and jokers are 12. Jokers let you pick the suit of your stat (the red joker can be hearts or diamonds, and the black joker can be clubs or spades). If you don't like the 4 cards you drew, shuffle them back into the deck and draw 4 more.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)18:55 No.10054196
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    In a card based system you lose your freedom, then your forced to go with the stats you get from the cards and then you have to do combat by the cards. Its like why bother when I'm given a character not of my own creation.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)18:56 No.10054220
    Oh. Good point.

    Well as >>10054116 pointed out, having rules for poker hands makes things a bit more interesting. I'll think on this.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:00 No.10054273
    Heh, that's me as well.

    Anyways, don't worry about it too much. You listen to me too much and you'll soon have a whole table of random abilities and shit. You have a find base system that stands on its own without a whole lot of complication.

    Now I'm off to complicate and convolute it til it cries for mercy.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:01 No.10054301
    I think the stats should have set suites I also like the idea of Gunslingers being able to substitute a card of the same suit as their Card as long as it's =< the value of their Card
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:05 No.10054384
    Perhaps instead of waiting until your hand runs out to get a new one, you replace the ones you played with new ones from the deck at the end of every round? While players would generally toss out their highest cards and get new ones, they'd get stuck with low ones eventually, and have to play them. The poker hands might provide an incentive to use the low cards, though. Drop a pair of twos and it counts as a four, three fours and it's a twelve. The bigger hands could get special effects, like lowering your opponent's check result or giving you an extra action.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:07 No.10054430
    What about some kind of special Showdown rules, where the situation is a face-off between two gunslingers? You could play a game of modified Egyptian Rat Screw, where the first person to slap draws his gun and shoots first. This would represent the two characters searching each other for weaknesses - when you see one, you hit it.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:09 No.10054446

    I was just thinking of how to phrase that exact idea... Yeah, that'd add a lot more of a gambling element to it as you could use that high card now and hope you drew another one later, but you might just as easily end up with a two. And then the ability to add specific poker hands together sounds cool too. Perhaps have some of the higher poker hands also have special effects?
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:09 No.10054447
    And don't forget that you can play actual poker in the tave- bars, for in-game money.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:11 No.10054487

    OP, I really like this idea. Do you mind if I copy-paste your stuff and work on it in my spare time?
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)19:11 No.10054488
    That's not a half bad idea. Having your cards refresh at the end of a round kinda limits the tactical element, but it could work . . .

    I dunno what you're getting at, but I'm currently working on this as a classless system, similar to World of Darkness.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)19:12 No.10054514
    No, by all means. We'll compare notes and, if it gets off the ground, you'll be credited.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:15 No.10054567
    I'm guessing by Gunslinger he means PC.

    As for keeping it tactical while refreshing cards... how about making it an in game action to draw new cards instead of a passive effect? That adds options to the gameplay.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:19 No.10054598
    Yeah, I meant gunslinger as a general term for guy with a revolver, usually with duster and cowboy hat.
    >> Sommunist !CvgOA2wCo2 05/25/10(Tue)19:21 No.10054644
    This is a good idea . . .

    And I get where you're coming from now.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:25 No.10054713
    >Having your cards refresh at the end of a round kinda limits the tactical element

    Depends on the situation really. I doubt it would make much difference in a 1v1 fight, as both sides would be spending cards at an equal rate. In group fights, however, it could make a world of difference, as ganging up could drain a player's card pool very quickly.

    >how about making it an in game action to draw new cards instead of a passive effect?

    Having both might be a better option, if just for more tactical options.

    Also, sticking with the wild west theme, I'd suggest increasing the hand size to 6 and making "reloading" the term for getting a new hand.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)19:42 No.10055014
    Here's an idea. What if you bet a card that is suited with the stat, but instead of giving you a bonus to the number, you draw a card?
    Then, when you run out of cards, you are "exhausted" during your next turn, and can only fight with your base stats - next turn you reload.
    >> Anonymous 05/25/10(Tue)20:58 No.10056316
    I kinda like this idea. It forces the player to think on multiple fronts. On the other hand, it might be hard to use certain stats in combat.

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