I are confused...but go on.

This setting rocks so much. So, any takers on fleshing (drawing) out the world any further or can we move on to character concepts?
If so, show me what you got.

>>12100692
I'm with this anon; what the hell is this and where do I sign up?

question
how do you do you deal with players
we have how preexisting characters work but players dont necessarily want to use pregened ones

>>12100722
>>12100692
the link in OP's post has the original thread.

>>12100801
also archived on suptg here
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/12083010/

One day, Captain America came around to our town for some big recruiting event, telling us that when we grow up, we should join the armed forces to protect America and everything it stood for. We were young and stupid enough to believe what he said. When I signed up, I decided to roll with Special Forces. If I had to depend on someone to watch my back, I wanted him to be the best of the best.

Anyways, I manage to land a spot in Delta Force and we start pulling covert ops all over the place. It doesn't take long for me and my squadmates to figure out that we're nothing more than glorified corporate thugs. We go in and sabotage other countries' animation programs and broadcasting networks. We kill the competition and at the same time force them to turn to the good ol US of A for their entertainment needs.

But there's one mission that always gave me the chills. Out of all the ops I pulled, it was the one that stood out in my mind the most.

>>12100709
I'm working on writing a bunch of research notes as Walt Disney publishing research on the system. As far as the work goes, you guys can use my proboards.

inquisitorcale.proboards.com

So we're all pretty much as real as it gets. All blood with minimal Ink augments. Toons aren't suitable for the stuff we do, since they're easier to trace and harder to cover up. Plausible deniability and all. We get airdropped into some backwater nowhere town in China, Apparently, was an underground animation studio hidden there the higher ups wanted us to blow. We recon the town for four days and we find the entrance, cleverly disguised as the town well.

That night, we infiltrate the town and breach the facility. What we saw was... atrocious. There were hundreds, maybe even thousands of people being held in dark, poorly lit underground chambers, scribbling away at sketchpads. It was a fucking Animator Farm.

Before then, I thought they were just nasty rumors, or propaganda from our government to smear the Chinks. The whole idea behind an Animator Farm is that you grab anybody you can find, order them to draw something, and see if it comes to life. If it works, well then you get shipped off to some work camp to churn out animated cannon fodder for the rest of your life. If it doesn't, they just make you draw yourself to death on the off chance that any gift or talent you had just didn't manifest yet.

A Study on the Life of the Ink - Walt Disney, 1938

The time has come and passed now with the creation of Mickey and many others like him, and reports have begun to come to me of other Animators that have experienced similar things as I have. This letter will be detailing some of my research and experiences, along with those of some colleagues.

Longevity of Animations-
This is a topic upon which there has been no agreed upon truth, but extended shades of gray and speculation as to what the causes are. From most Animators, the Ink will lose its coherency and break apart after a few weeks, some lasting into a number of months. Mickey has been with me now for just over ten years, developing and changing all the way. Some have reported that better known characters may last longer, though many Animators have had their creations falter nearly instantly. Oswald, bless him, lasted for nearly four months before the Ink faltered and he was left as nothing but a stain on the floor. I hope that, some day, there will be tools to measure the strength of an Animation's Ink. Such a thing is impossible at current and all of the proof that we have is based on observation.

>>12100920
These people were from all corners of Southeast Asia. Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, and even a couple all way from India. We wasted the guards down there and made our way to the main office. I recognize the guy in charge as a no-name Japanese anime artist. Tried to make it into the big leagues a couple years back but all his works flopped. Guess the Chinese made him a better offer running this hellhole.

Anyways, he starts ranting at us in rapidfire Japanese. I catch a few words and phrases, but gist was that the guy genuinely thought he was creating true art. We waste the fucker where he stood and then gun down his "assistants" with Dip coated rounds. Typical moeblob shit, and not even well drawn ones either. I've seen better quality from weaboos in the States.

We can't afford to evac the facility. Orders from high up specified that NOBODY gets out, and I'm not about to piss off the Mouse just because of my conscience. We set charges, lock everybody inside, and bug out before PLA reinforcements arrive.

Jesus, I can still see their faces so clearly. Some of my Toon friends say that they would've done the same thing in my position. That doesn't make me feel any better at all.

>>12100934
Another theory on the strength of an Animation is the purity of its original idea. This has been affirmed by Robert Clampett, a skilled animator turned Animator working with Warner Bros. My own experience with the creation of Mickey also lends to this, and he affirms that Porky's birth off of the page came through a partial redesign of the character. As he said in a letter to me, "The ideas were so clear in my head as I drew him out that it didn't seem like an effort at all to create him. My mind guided and my pen flowed with what felt like no interference or interaction on the part of my body." Continuing, he stated that the completed drawing faded completely from the page and he felt a tap on his shoulder, showing a fully materialized version of his character.

Other ideas are present, but these two ideas of drawing longevity seem to be the primary ideas. Perhaps, simply as a supposition, the power of the longevity in the Ink is not something within the Animators, but is another essence. What if, regardless of our skill, the Ink is developing and gaining power? This article is not the home of such ideas, though, and I will continue to present what I have observed.

If anyone on /tg/ has been following that Epic Mickey game, it looks like it could be pretty useful to determine how cartoons think, plus the Phantom Blot could make a good villain.

>>12101079
That styling, paired with "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"'s ubiquitous Toontown, and with a touch of the gritty Megacorp feel of CyberPunk 2020, is what birthed this whole idea.

What about voices? How would the Toons sound?

Personally, I think they sound as we know them - but people like Frank Welker, Grey Delisle, etc., are sometimes called in as the audio equivalent to stunt-doubles - if a line needs redubbing or whatever, and the Toon can't make it back to the studio personally to do a second take, they hire these "voice actors" to do things for them.

They are also useful for doing "parody roles" the toon themselves are unable or unwilling to do.

I was wondering about the potential to use Ink, the font of creativity, to animate things other than just drawings and symbolic representations.

What about working Ink into a sculpture or statue, giving life to works of bronze, wax, and clay?

What about Ink-infused media, turning books into never ending stories that just keep advancing on their own, or making songs and music have Bardic Song like effects?

>>12101372
I'd say no to those, personally. Having just Toons/Anime/CGI is pretty solid a character basis already without trying to muck around with figuring out ways of adding claymation and muppets and such.

Ink isn't some mystical life-generating thing after all - if it were, this would go from a -punk setting to just another magic-filled psuedofantasy setting, and we've got those in spades.

Even on the tiny stool, hunched over and staring at the floor, Ronny towered over the hospital bed. The IV line nearly touched his ears as he sat by the bedside. In one huge, gloved paw, he held fast to a wrinkled, blue-veined hand laying over the covers.

"Ronny on the Railroad" was Dave McMann's first masterpiece. Ronny, swinging his sledgehammer into railroad spikes and burglars with a smile on his face, graced theaters for the first time December 4th, 1931 and was an instant success. When Dave returned to the studio the following day and saw the huge bear sitting next to his drawing table, smiling warmly, he couldn't believe his eyes. There was his creation, exactly as he had drawn it... no, not 'it'. 'Him'.

>>12101454

Dave treated Ronny like the son he never had. They talked like old friends, bouncing ideas off of each other for the next picture, and were rarely seen apart. The studio approved of the friendship, as Dave's skills only improved after Ronny's arrival.

Then, in the late 40's, Dave was let go. He had become an addict in the past several years, originally taking Ink only to get past a particularly tough art block, to the point where he couldn't think an original thought without the stuff. Gossip claimed that Ronny was the one who got him started on the drug, but McMann publicly decried these accusations numerous times from rehab.

Well, thanks to you guys I went out and rented Who Framed Roger Rabbit. I haven't seen that since I was a kid.

>>12101480

Now Ronny held Dave's hand for what was surely the last time. He had been prevented from seeing his Animator for  decades, but when Dave went into emergency care last week, the doctors and lawyers finally allowed Ronny into the hospital. His trademark sledgehammer was absent, and his lidless black eyes were cut off at an angle from the top- the way human eyes looked in a sorrowful expression. No one said a word as he was led down the halls, a huge bear in monochrome overalls, to the room his creator was sleeping.

"Ron..."
Ronney nearly jumped. He leaned close to the prone figure on the bed. 
"Dad?"
"It is you... I wish I could see you, Ron..."
The man's eyes slowly opened, revealing solid black irises in fields of perfect white.
"I'm so sorry to put you... through all this..." said Dave.
"I'm okay, dad." the bear answered. 
"No... You're not. You've... been all alone since they took me... never took another picture... the nurses said...

>>12101525

"Listen to me now-" said Dave, as he suddenly coughed. Flecks of Ink stuck to Ronny's overalls. "...you've got to do something with the rest of your life... Make the world a bit brighter..."
"The way we used to- at the studio?" Ronny asked, black eyes wide.
Dave nodded. "Don't let others end up... the way we did..."

"Give them something... to laugh about..."

The hand slipped from between the white-gloved fingers, and landed softly on the bed.

>>12101454
>>12101480
>>12101525
>>12101549

Dammit, now I'm tearing up.

Though, I wonder, just how DO most Toons see the Animators that created them? Family? Boss? Or even as some kind of godlike figure?

And how do they react when that flesh-and-bone withers, slows, then finally moves no more, while they carry on just as bright and vivid as their first day off the sketchpad?

>>12101639
no if not drawn their color begins to fade, some begin to devolop holes or black spots like old film or photographs, their ink begins to fleck, but only if their not redrawn

bump

>>12101673

No, toons persist even after their creators die. Maybe they eventually die of old age (somehow, maybe Ink has something to do with it) but they probably live longer than the average human.

>>12101888
have older cartoon character not been redrawn again and again past their creators death?

As I see it, there are three "races" for characters.
Humans, toons and CG

Perhaps there are subtypes that could be chosen to further differentiate them (like anime style as opposed to old timey cartoons), but I think that it should be done with powers or traits rather than individual subraces.

Forgive me as I haven't read the entirety of the first thread of the RPG.net thread but do we know which of the big name cartoons are still alive, where are they now, etc... or have only the few REALLY big named ones like Micky and Bugs etc. been placed in the setting.

Also this setting looks epic might have to homebrew a short little toon raid or something for my players.

THEOLOGY jobith....you scare me captcha

Scary concept - unscrupulous Keys who become their Toons' agents/legal guardians, doing what they will with marketing that Toon's likeness in some bizarre hybrid of copyright enforcement and slavery...

----

"Don't you DARE talk back to me, you worthless fucking painted bitch! I created you - I OWN YOU. If I tell you to get out there and shake your sketched-up ass for that pack of drunken fucks out there, you DO IT... Understand?!"

Minxy flinched, cowering as she saw Mr. Black threatening hover his hand over a certain drawer on his desk - a drawer both of them knew held a syringe full of that hated green poison.

"Y-Y-yessir... forgive me, sir, I... I'll never do it again..."

"Good little rat. Now get your fuzzy white ass on that stage and make Daddy some money."

Minxy solemnly trudged out of the office, forcing herself into her sulty stage persona again for the appeasement of the inebriated crowd, as Mr. Black's looming shadow coldly watched her through his office-door window.

Right now, she was lucky that any bruising Black did was maskable with a bit of paint touchups, but she'd heard rumors that she wasn't the first Toon to come off Black's twisted sketchings... but she was the first to go more than a month without being the target of a drunken-rage-spawned Dip-dousing.

>>12102248
creepy.

bump...

not over already, is it?

>>12102675
the issue is we inspired writefagging instead of working on rules

>>12102248
Sounds like an adventure: breaking up a toon prostitution ring.

Are there laws in place to protect toons from their owners? Maybe something like child custody laws, where if the toon is abused, the government takes it away.

Also, do free toons try to save others of their kind from the animation studios they work for? I know toons live for the story itself, but perhaps some radical toons (and people) think they should all be freed...

>>12102737
No complaints here.

so who drew judge doom, and why? Was doom a weapon to kill the toons? Was he a toon that went insane, filled with self-loathing over his nature, or a sociopath from the beginning?

>>12102751
I wouldn't be surprised if there were groups of Toon "freedom fighters" that range from vocal but harmless activists to bashit insane like PETA to motherfucking freaky ass terrorist organizations like ELF.

I actually knew a stick figure once. No, really, one that could string two sentences together and didn't die if you so much as blinked at him.

Yeah, drawn from the same... stuff as the New Grounders. Flash, they call it- not quite Ink, but not quite pixels either, and not even clay. Same difference, though. He was polite enough in quiet time, but in a fight... dear god I've never seen someone rack up that kind of body count before and never hope to again. And I could tell he enjoyed every minute of it.

>>12102751
Bah... toon whores are everywhere... Usually some Toon who just couldn't hold interest enough to make it big, or some ex-star who burned-out quick and for one reason or another can't - or won't - go back to where they started out... sure, it starts out kinda lame and simple... cheap thrills like stripping for rent money, maybe a lapdance or two for some bonus simoleons. Then the bossman wants more for his cut of the profits, so ya end up in some dingy alley, choking on some meat-cock while you swear the paint's gonna rub off your knees as you swallow some fat pig's gunk. At least you can still pretend at that point to have a tiny bit of dignity left since you're not on your back... Yet. It's a hard life to crawl back out of once you fall in...

...Sweet mother of Walt, I miss Roger...

>>12102873
In the graphic novel Roger Rabbit: The Resurrection of Doom, it is explained that Doom was originally a Toon named Baron von Rotten, who took up the role of playing the antagonist in movies, until an accident in which Von Rotten suffers a concussion, and awakens believing he is a real villain. Von Rotten thus begins his crime career, robbing the First National Bank of Toontown, then killing Theodore 'Teddy' Valiant by dropping a piano on his head, and spreading the stolen money all over the town in order to buy the election for Judge of Toontown, assuming the new name of Judge Doom.

See the last thread. We got all kinds; furries are pretty much the Church of Toonology, the New Grounds are a wasteland, Sprites are a forgotten underclass and CG is the new game changer.

I wonder what of Claymation? Technically animation, but moulded instead of drawn, with tender loving care and effort. Such creations are vanishingly rare and take so much time and hard work, but almost all are very special creations.

>>12102986
my vote on clamation is... not toonpunk. they're clay, and just clay. no awareness, not life, just inert matter, moved and shaped by humans. Like muppets.

Hey, we gotta have SOME stuff here that's exactly what it seems.

I've worked with all kinds in my time. The stick man's just one. I once met a Sprite too, a tough guy who just kept going no matter what, and he was skilled as all hell. Always talking about how he'd make a better world for his people, or some shit. Called GI Joe or something, he musta been licensed.

Speaking of which, yeah I teamed with the Real American Heroes... they're real, they're American, and they sure as fuck ain't heroes. They work private now, where the censors don't dare mess with, and they'll shoot, blow up and yell anything you want em to for the right price. They're some of the toughest Toons on the market these days.

>>12103021
The good ol' Muppets... about the only thing I'd let my kids watch nowadays. Whenever I see a Toon I can't help but wonder what the fuck they're up to backstage, but with Muppets you know they're just marionette puppet thingies, never showed any sign of life for centuries and not starting now.

At least, I hope. And don't get me started on those goddamn baby Toons.

>>12103083
If ya ask me, I feel sorry for 'em... never aging's a great perk of being a Toon... except when it also means your body's basically stuck at the diapers-and-naps stage.

Though I've heard some of 'em went on to reasonable employment at sniffing-out perverts - no better bait than themselves, I guess.

Geez, I get away from /tg/ for a while and I come back to witness one of the greatest things brewing here that I've seen in a long time!

>sage eatrath

NO! There will be NO sage-ing here, Eatrath!

Video Game characters are rare, but they happen. See, in order to get Game Characters not only does the person that actually models and animates and whatnots the character have to be a Key Artist, so does the person that came up with the idea of the character in the first place. And if the Game Character is going to last more than a few days or weeks the game it is in has to be popular and then the actual character has to be popular. Only a handful have ever been created and only three are still "alive". And they are all NPCs.

>>12103231
Pedo Toons. Jesus fuck man. There's barely any of them, and that's too much already. They were supposedly drawn to teach kids a lesson and I don't know what the fuck was up with that, they're the creepiest things I ever saw. Ever.

...well, but there's the other thing... never, EVER let a toon smoke grass. You know all that bullshit the God-botherers say it does to ya? It happens to Toons. Damn near all of em. I offered a guy a joint once and next thing I know he was like some fucked up zombie, trashing everything in his sight and screaming like he'd just ODed on PCP or something. And by the time he calmed down I had to listen to a bunch of toons bitch about how drugs are bad for the next hour. Thank ye gods for my ink pistol.

>>12103052
Pity what happened to Cobra, though. They just couldn't seem to get it together after the show was canceled. Cobra Commander didn't take the cancellation well and tried starting his own actual terrorist organization to destroy Hasbro. GI Joe got mobilized, and this time, they didn't have cameras, censors, ratings, or network executives to hold them back. The cops still haven't found all the pieces.

Zartan made a living as a con artist for a couple years until the FBI finally collared him. He's doing about ten years in a federal prison.

Destro and Baroness hooked up after the cancellation and dropped off the radar. There are rumors they're out in Florida or something but honesty, nobody knows.

The Cobra extras all went their own separate ways. The majority of them faded away once their roles were done, while the few remaining ones either work 9 to 5 jobs or low level security. None of them really like to talk about the show though.

>>12103339
S'weird, ain't it... stuff like pot and booze, stuff we take just to zone out and unwind, drives them crazy as a shithouse rat... the only real way to kill 'em is dousing the painted fuckers in what's more-or-less toxic waste...

I tell ya, man, I thank whatever powers that be are in charge of this fucked-up little mudball that Keys aren't very numerous anymore, and Toons can't have kids, or we'd all be fucked.

>>12103363
Baroness? Shit, son, I swear ta god my cousin Pauly claims he saw a chick dancing down at the Ink-n-Paint Club - y'know, that old 40's lounge they remade into a stripjoint - that he could sweat twice sideways was her; same hair, same specs and all.

I told him he was a dumbass and that she was probably some import skank with a quicky repaint. Titty bars and pornos use repaints and shit all the damn time - everyone knows that, but nobody gives a damn, just like how they don't care if the human girl lapdancing for them has real tits or not.

>>12103231
Pic related.

'Course, there's always the question of freakin' Japan.

Honestly, this setting is fucking DARK. I mean, this is what /tg/ excels at-taking cheerful, happy things and niggling away until...well, how did Mona Lisa Overdrive put it?

...to pull away the turf like a lid
And reveal that which was better hid.

Damn good thing nobody in the "adult animation" business is a Key...

...right?

>>12103543
Ha. Haha. Ahahahahahahaha.

Oh, what a rube. Someone keep this kid away from the New Grounds and the Furries. Don't want to see such innocence tarnished.

>>12103543
That's funny. You're funny.

Here's the big question to get it all started: What is the dice base, and is it going to be mirrored after an existing system? I honestly think that the original Deadlands system could work, with all of the different perks and flaws that are present and meant to be incorporated into the game.

As others have pointed out, Shadowrun would also be a good base.

>>12103584
I think the original thread seemed to be leaning towards attempting Mutants and Masterminds rulesets, to accomodate the variety of bizarre Toon abilities, but nothing really got set-in-stone for certain.

>>12103496
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction

>>12103584
>>12103603
WoD was brought up, and I gotta say, WoD with some of Exalted's Stunting would work nicely. It's got tons of rules for The Corruption and probably stats for Toons somewhere.

What I want to know, though, is what happens when you have someone grievously wounded and a Key redraws everything they've lost? What if someone like that gets addicted to Ink? Is it possible, I ask, for someone half Toon, with as much Ink as blood, to hop the barrier between the two?

And once it's proven possible, how long until the Furries start doing it to themselves?

>>12103801
We treated Ink kinda like cyberware mixed with heroin, in that it's not exactly easy or safe to mess with, because its kinda addictive, and the more Ink you deal with, the more humanity you lose until you basically go insane - the human mind and Toon mind, while similar, are fundamentally different, and the human psyche just can't cope with a Toon's mindset and physics-defying abilities, when it's happening to themselves directly instead of just observing a Toon's antics.

>>12103801
It seemed to be leaning toward the thought that the Ink itself was more incorporeal and that it was more of a "creative tool," but raw Ink could be obtained by killing a toon with a form of Dip. After that, Keys can use the Ink to act on the physical world in a myriad of ways, not excluding creating replacement limbs. To do that, the afflicted would have to be in contact with the Ink and the Key would use a photograph of the person they're working on as a base before adding the drawing.

Oh god...that means farms where Keys are making and killing their Toons for raw Ink.

I only ever draw stickmen. I put all my effort into making them mindless, obedient, and vicious beyond all compare. Cruel, I suppose, but I haven't met a toon yet that could match them. And far better creations then those you trusted to keep you safe.

No, I don't work for any of the big names.

I simply choose to believe that toons have something like a soul. I see them created from our most powerful dreams and feelings, and see them inspire such things in turn. To create a toon is to create life. To grant life frivolously is hubris of the most wretched sort. To abuse one's own toon is is to abuse yourself, and the treatment of one the surest measure of an artist's soul.

And I've seen the way you treat the life you've created.

That's why I came here. Why I've scraped every drop of ink I could from the ground where I had to kill the toons that you enslaved as bodyguards. Why I'm going to take the life you denigrated and give it freedom - or a peaceful rest, in the Great Well.

And why my white-faced creations will kill you and hunt down every piece of shit that helped create your little shop of horrors.

THAT CARTOON HAS TOO MUCH CLEAVAGE. MY BROTHER GOT A BONER FROM IT.

IT'S TOTALLY PORN BRO. SHOULD BE BANNED.

Cause all porn...is banned...

>>12103979
I'm surprised that pic is still there really.

>>12103979
>>12104009

if you're still focusing on the pic... holy cockfuck, do you ever fail.

>>12103979
Suck my rusty Czechloslovakian scrotes and enjoy yourself like everyone else in the thread.

>>12104032
No, my friend. It is the mods that fail.

>>12103979
>>12104009
>>12104061

I swear to god, if this awesome thread gets wiped because of your whiny butthurt, I will track you down and throatfuck you with a fucking baseball bat.

>>12103960

People are herd animals. They're easy to manipulate, they go with the flow. When everyone treats toons the same, no one speaks up when they feel any different.

This is almost completely true. Almost.

Once is a while, you hear how a key turns up missing or dead. Maybe all their toons are gone too. Maybe there's a body count. It happens. It gets investigated. Maybe someone gets caught. Or not.

Sometimes, their studio is looted and burned. Every spare drop of ink is mopped up. The toons are missing. But they haven't been milked for ink, traded away or enslaved by someone else. They're safe.

You hear about them mainly in the pro-toon circles. They talk about the Great Well like it's some kind of holy grail or elephant graveyard where toons go to die, their ink mixing with the ink of hundreds, maybe thousands of departed toons.

The group is supposed to be small, every single one a Key, with some giant vat or underground cistern filled with enough ink to turn the american continent into a Salvador Dali painting. But they keep it safe, clean, hidden away where no one can abuse it.

You can be damn sure a lot of people would like to get their hands on something like that, but there's never been any real proof they exist. Sometimes toons who hear about it make their own little wells, posting a death-notice on message boards before throwing themselves into a giant homemade funnel over some tiny little jar, hoping they'll be brought to the well one day.

It'd almost be funny if stickmen with knives for fingers weren't known to collect the jars and kill anyone who gets in their way.

But I digress. Time for more awesome.

Should we come up with a list of powers? Invulnerability has been mentioned before, but I don't know how it would work mechanically. Perhaps an Invulnerable toon could be knocked out or subdued where a normal human would simply die.

Also, '2-Dimensional' as a trait for a Sprite or particularly clever toon would be fun.

>>12104312
Every time their hitpoints hit 0, they lose randomly chosen experience or abilities, on top of generating new "quirks." Every time they die, they take a step closer to absolute insanity or destitution.

Now I wonder. We speak of the loony toons being hellishly tough if not down right immortal to anything but dip
But do you know why? They have no real concept of death! Have you ever once see a Toon die of something other than Dip?

But Anime.They're different. They can be killed. Because they know of death. How many times have you seen one die one way or another? No matter how invincible or overpowered they all have some level of mortality.

Maybe that's why Toons can't die by "normal' means. Because they're told they can't. That they get up fter being hit by a train.
Anime are told that they can die. They can be hurt. They can be killed. But only by animated weapons.

So Anime may have the numbers in the War. But how many do down to kill just one Toon?

Every time /tg/ comes up with a setting, we invariably come up with much cooler writefaggotry than any attempts at a system...

>imokaywiththis.jpg

>>12104573
yes but we also spit out enough random tidbits that a GM could pick a choose and create one for themself

>to stumbly
>from Captcha

>>12104348

How about no.
If there's one thing that players hate, it's getting something valuable taken away. Besides, when did Wile E. Coyote go psycho from getting run over too often?

>>12104378

Sounds good. Certainly many toons can be killed by conventional means, Dip being the most effective. Perhaps one of the downsides to Invulnerability as a trait (along with a high cost) is that it makes you less relatable to humans. Because Invulnerable toons are often the most capricious and have other zany abilities, people are naturally intimidated by them.

>>12105297

maybe some kind of template, depending on the system?

western toons get a dot of invulnerability, but suffer penalties when not interacting with humans in an entertainment format?

anime toons get boosted physical abilities, such as super-jumps, but suffer from existentialism? issues. doubt that's the right word.

rolled 58 = 58

>>12104864
>>12104910
No Charles No! Stop using my Fetishes Charles!

>>12104864
>>12104910

>01
>03

page two is missing.

>>12104864
Uh oh, here comes the /transgender/

>>12105516

I don't think grouping the toons into straight "western or anime" camps is the way to go. Theres a lot of overlap in style, especially with modern cartoons. I would think that toons (and digital animation, if it stays hopefully) have a point-buy selection of powers to allow for customization for players. Not every anime character has to be a fireball-throwing martial artist, and not every Western cartoon is a noodley-armed sociopath. Though you're right that some abilities should have drawbacks like lack of humanity (or just a high point cost.) Perhaps a character that can stretch it's limbs or be flattened harmlessly is more easily thrown around, or gets blown away by strong gusts of wind.

>>12105699
>implying that that isnt going to add more to the setting

Can anyone say whether a M&M style power system is the way to go with this? I haven't tried it myself

There needs to be some kind of power or ability where Toons break continuity. Yes they die, but on a roll of x or higher they don't stay dead, they just wake up somewhere with no memory of the circumstances leading to their death.

>>12106815
looks like that's what we're going with, yeah.

>>12106815
M&M appears to be a good way to go, except for the problem of combat; we need to simplify it, streamline it, make it as fast-paced as cartoons are.

In addition, I think it may be interesting to consider if the relationship between Key and Toon works in reverse, to a certain degree.

For instance, a Key may create a toon, his or her masterpiece, creating life from the vapor of nuance. And surely, once alive, it has free will, intelligence (of sorts), personal agendas, etc. And of course, a toon enriches the life of the Key, promoting success, gaining a valuable sidekick, or even just a friend in a time of need. . . Benefits, in other words.

But what happens when a toon is killed by Dip? We all know that Dip destroys the creative potential, sealing off toons from the otherverse of imagination that fuels their powers and life-essence. They melt, they fade, they die. And Dip even damages humans in a certain way. Human Dip addicts burn out, lose focus, and their minds. They become empty husks, unable to laugh, cry, or even Imagine. Like human robots.

But my question is this. What if the Key's one true masterpiece, his greatest toon companion, his killed by Dip. His creation, and creative essence stripped from this work, forcibly. Maybe this will have some backlash on the Key. Similiar to Shadowrun Drain, or DnD-esque con loss (Charisma loss?) from death of a familiar or animal companion? I think that Toon-Death should have an adverse effect on the Key that created it. Or at least a mental pinging that they had "forgotten something. . . Seemed important, but. . . "

For that matter, as a Toon is dipped, does it fade from the collective unconscious? Does it become a 'Neverwas'. Hard to track Toon-murderers, when you never knew a Toon existed, after all. . .

>>12107880

For instance, rumors of Mickey's assassination ring far and wide. And really, who can dispute them? The old mouse hasn't been seen in years, so it must be true. . . But old Walt hasn't slowed down, burnt out. He doesn't seem the type who has suffered the loss of a friend, confidante, and business partner. He didn't wither and diminish like Wilkins did, after those crooked cops Dipped his old feline partner. How many years did they spend on the force, and just one bad setup later, Wilkins takes to drinking, and won't touch a pencil to this day. . . Things got worse after that. Wilkins couldn't catch the crooks anymore. Didn't see the patterns, hell, he couldn't even walk a beat anymore. Things just disassociated for him after that day.

I still see Wilkins in the hospital time to time. He's not doing so well, but he seems to be past the worst. I don't talk about to him about the old days. . . Brings up bad memories. Relapses the doctors say. . .

But it goes to show you, Dipping hits hard, And it wipes more than the Toon, you know. So, let me ask you. . . Where's Mickey now?

Basically, just about any animated picture of an entity can become reality. But not just comics, drawings, paintings or photographs: it has to be drawn and animated, one way or another.

Flash toons count, as the ever-growing slums of the New Grounds and creepy furry enclaves show all too well. As do Sprites, though those poor things in their one-street ghettos rarely survive for long in the real world.

CG is something different altogether. Something new, strange, mysterious and terrifying that threatens to turn the world upside down.

Sometimes, it can be hard telling the difference. If you hire Mario for a birthday, you'd better be sure it's the real deal, not the one with a shotgun.

>>12107993
i thought it was agreed that there was only one character and any different versions were them for a loack of a better word "acting"

>>12108043
Not sure. But I don't imagine it'd be uncommon to see repaints, knockoffs, and cheap imitations, especially in the New Grounds. Illegal, of course, and guess how many people that stops.

Any kid will tell you all about Optimus Prime and Megatron. Great leaders, the hero and villain, eternal enemies, yadda yadda. It's almost sad to tell them that those are just parts they play. The real Prime and Meggsy? They're best buds and have been since the 80's.

They're damn well off too. Those two have made a toy company into an international empire, and they've been redrawn so many times that nobody really knows who their original Key was. They and the other Transformers don't seem to see a difference between the East and West, they just see money.

Brings a whole new meaning to Robots In Disguise- I hear some of them can turn into damn near anything... and now that they got their hands on the new CGI technology, they can turn into cars that look just like the real factory ones.

No wonder no one fucks with Hasbro. Anyone who does... well, you get into your car every morning, right? What if it's not your car?

>>12103772
YOU BASTARD! I just now escaped.

>>12107880
I like the backlash idea, but I absolutely hate the "Neverwas" idea...at least from normal DIP death.

Now on the other hand if there was an incredily RARE dip, hell let's call it Neverwas, then that would be pretty cool without turning the game into mind games with everyone trying to remember that long lost friend.

So...character classes, I know we don't have a system yet but what would people like to see character class wise, if in fact people want to see character classes at all.

Example: Keys, should they be playable? If so should how does one make it so that they don't become walking Stick Death factories without disillusioning the idea that Keys are literally walking Stick Death factories.

>>12108241
I'm thinking somewhere between Genius: The Trangression, Mage The Awakening and Dark Heresy Psykers. Not necessarily the backlash but the unpredictability of their powers- sure you can try churning out stick figures, but it's likely they'll die if you so much as breathe on them. Knockoffs and cliches will be predictable and wavering. There's just that X factor, that unknown spark required to make a truly lasting toon, and so many Keys have died or gone mad searching for it.

And the backlash is another thing. When a Toon dies, it's like a part of you dies, one way or another.

In this thread, /tg/ succeeds.

bumping for more

What if a Key creates a Toon that also has the abilities of a Key? In fact, what's actually stopping Toons from using Ink themselves??

>>12108863
Some intrinsic part of humanity? As so we are not God so too cannot our creations be Man.

>>12108863

Maybe they lack the unique human spark of creativity that humans used from the very beginning of their existence, leading from cave paintings of stone age herds to the animation of action packed cartoon extravaganzas. That would give humans a least one edge they have over toons who, more or less, are bound by "the way they are drawn". Even if a toon were an artist, it's creative impulses would be severely limited by its character. And even if his character would include the urge to draw other toons, those would be short-lived at best.

>>12108908
Not too mention that the act of drawing a toon doesn't give it life, you have to have the spark that a Key has, and since no Key understands what gives them their spark they could never invision a toon with said spark, since they obviously can't create something that they don't know about.

That isn't to say there wouldn't be a toon or two with the spark but at that point your playing cthulu toonpunk since that would be an incredibly powerful toon.

>>12109034
ONLY YOU CAN PREVENT FEATURE CREEP.
Toons cannot into reproduction.
Any time a toon attempts to draw it turns into a scene from Liar Liar. Their hands will refuse to do it.

Let's talk more about what connects a toon and its creator. And what happens when the creator dies/etc.

>>12109172
On the issue of toons drawing. They CAN'T create other toons but that doesn't mean they can't draw. Likewise there are some very powerful items that allow toons to create "faux" toons that are easily destroyed and are easily recognized to be fake by other toons (though whether a human recognizes them or not depends on how much they understand toons).

Example: Spongebob squarepants' magic pencil. It allowed him and other toons to create fake toons.

When a creator dies.....nothing happens, as has been alluded to in many posts, and a few stories, there are many toons that have been redrawn and there are many toons who haven't been redrawn and still outlived their creator. Of course the toon might feel sad or have some other emotional complication (maybe even more extreme than a human would normally have) but nothing physical would occur to each and every one of them as a result of creator death. Vice versa though would probably result in the creator feeling ill and worn down...though I would say that only applies to a PRIME TOON, i.e. the toon that is closest to the Key's heart.

As to what connects a toon to its creator? Nothing much on the physical level, but emotionally their is a huge range of how the toons could see their creator, some might see them as their parents or best friends, others might see them as gods or even cthulu-esque monsters, again though the response is based entirely on the toon.

I really feel that toons and creators shouldn't hav this huge physical/psychic/whatever connection since Keys are supposed to be rare and if they're constantly getting fucked over by some joe-schmoe stick man getting whacked than no Key would make it very far.

>>12108863

My take on this is that yes, they are able to "draw" a Toon into life. However, doing so will actually take away some of their own Ink, as the created Toon is actually an extension of the Key Toon. They would have to reabsorb it before their own Ink becomes too thin for them to be stable. However, it's possible that some extreme Key Toons might try actively Dipping other Toons and consuming their Ink to further their Key abilities.

Toons are already potentially really powerful as is, Toons making Toons might have to be a rare thing at the very, very least.

Could give the Toons a point by system for inherent powers and abilities, all inspired by various cartoons. You don't necessarily pick templates but can mix and match to recreate whatever toon you want.

So, bumping with a question: Are there toon/human and/or anime/human hybrids running around?
Why or why not, especially since playing a hybrid would increase the range of overall character options, with the potential of even more Grimdark since hybrids might be seen as freaks by both toons and humans?

>>12111323

Naturally born? No.

You can implant toon parts into you, but that can cause Ink Poisoning if you don't take medicine (possibly Dip itself). You can take Ink and temporarily receive Toon insight or even Toon powers that doesn't warp the human body too much, but they cannot be naturally born.

Toons cannot naturally reproduce, they cannot become Keys. They can draw "faux" toons, but that takes up a lot of their Ink.

Human body parts seem to incompatible with a Toon's biology (if they have one, cutting up one will just dump out a lot of Ink).

>>12111388

To kind of elaborate further, it might be that the reason Toonware works in humans is because of Man's natural creativity, whether they are a Key or not.

There are some people who are incredibly imaginative but are not Keys. There are some stereotypical fanfiction writers who can't think beyond the next chapter of their DBZ fanfic flash that are powerful Keys. Being a Key isn't a hard and fast sign of a great and profound imagination. It's just people who have, for one reason or another, tapped into what people consider the Inkwell or whatever name they call it.

Toons shouldn't be able to create other toons. Their entire existience is to express the idea of the creator. They have trouble thinking outside of their original purpose. They aren't here to make, they're here to act.

In addition, a Key probably shouldn't be able to bring a fully realized toon into life in a matter of minutes. It requires the proper materials (animation cels), revision, conceptual sketches, and a firm belief in the toons identity to create something as real as Bugs Bunny.

A Key's primary defense would probably be to draw "props" for defense- inanimate objects that are easily identifiable. A group of barrels for cover, a length of rope, a gun with a few cartoon bullets. A Key might control quick sketches or stockmen like a necromancer commands skeletons. But they are either bereft of or have a one-dimensional personality.

>>12111323
Hybrids would be realistically drawn characters, with the resilience of a toon, but the raw killing power and instinct of a real person.

...Like you're dumping an adolescent/adult cartoon in a kid cartoon.

Guts vs. Mickey
Alucard vs. Bugs Bunny
That Heavy Metal chick vs. Goofy

You get the idea.

>>12111608

A Key in game would be useful for limited improvisation.

They can draw extra rounds for your gun (that can even curve and explode!), a nice Chicago Typewriter in a pinch, and many other quick little things.

A Key in game is probably going to focus more on Toontech, crazy things that probably won't actually have a use beyond the current situation, but may or may not hang around afterwards to be a problem.

You can justify this by saying that Keys used by Corps in runs don't tend to be used for show or movie creation all that often. Some are hired ONLY for their ability to quickly sketch a gun or crazy machinery.

Basically you'd have the Key everyone knows about, and the Combat Key. Regular Keys tend to live in corporate communes, and Combat Keys live in the same general area, but might be kept away from most of the other Keys.

>>12111323
>>12111388
>>12111449
But what if in one way or another, it was possible for a human/cartoon or anime to exist. it was rare and people honestly wouldn't know what to think, the opinions would have a huge range.

Now as to how this could be possible I would say that it would have to be done on a pre-existing human or cartoon. Maybe it is possible through a "relic" or a process that infuses the human spirit/body/mind and ink in such a way that it doesn't corrupt or drive them insane. Maybe it's out of desperation to save a dying friend/family member. regardless, it is should be a new deal that is just now appearing in the modern world.

As to their abilities, I don't think that they would be mary sues by any stretch.They aren't more powerful than toon or human. Their main feat is simply existing without going insane. They can't be keys. If they were keys, they aren't any longer.Maybe that's how it can exist, by sacrificing your ability as a key or someone else giving up their abilities as a key to save someone.

>>12111713

Then we get into the realm of fantasy, and that's not the kind of feeling we want for the setting.

You're free to do that in a game, but that's not what the setting should be heading for if we're trying to keep a gritty, yet slightly realistic feel.

Toonpunk, at its core, is a parody of Cyberpunk, with cartoons and entertainment replacing cybernetics and computers. It's Cyberpunk meets Magic Realism.

And there is a such thing as too much options in an RPG. The point is to have many, but to keep it simple. Once we start introducing Toon Keys and half Toon people who were made that way, things start getting complicated, and we haven't even decided on a system yet.

one of the best threads in ages.

>>12111815
I guess that makes sense. I just thought it had a lot of roleplaying potential and could possibly fit into the setting. It could work, I just may need another angle to approach you guys with.

>>12111891
It's not "this could never work, shut up!" It's "save it for the Player's Handbook II...now help us get the foundation put together."

I like the idea of combat-oriented Keys being able to quickly sketch simple items...maybe make them spend permanent Ink to let the items persist past a scene or so, but let them buy back that permanent Ink with experience?

Either work it like Shadowrun's Karma system, or like a WoD willpower bar, where you can keep spending XP to improve the max length of the bar.

>>12111891

For now, let's just think about it in terms of Human, Key, and Toon.

It's simple, and they provide some broad, very role-playable options.

>>12111956
Bingo. Finish the ground level before you try building the second floor.

>>12111956

Hmmm. Maybe we should save digital characters for a later addition as well.

So: Humans. They may not have powers that a Key Or a Toon does, so what do they have?
The obvious thing would be social skills and investigation. I keep seeing this trenchcoated P.I leaning around corners with a gun in his hand. Though I know that's not the character everyone will want to play...

>>12111956
>>12111953
very well, it shall be stored away until a better time is reached.I'm perfectly fine with them sketching items. Construct object in mutants and masterminds works the same way for the most part.

>>12112040
no I was just wondering what the humans would have as well. Maybe something like fate/hero/action points to even them out. The buffy the vampire system does the same thing. It gives reasons for why normals like zander and willow(pre-witchiness) can stand alongside buffy in her fights and not get decimated.

>smoke-fartbings, boxics
>wtf captcha

>>12112040
Humans would be the most adaptable in terms of combat. They do better with social skills because they have the benefit of being able to identify with other humans as well as knowing how to manipulate Toon psycholoy. In combat, they lack the power and toughness of a Toon, but can take Ink augmentations and Dipped weaponry. They also have more of mind to use firearms and real weapons than their Toon counterparts.

Toons: Due to the nature of their creation, Toons usually specialize in one or a few skills. A combat toon would have unnatural toughness and strength, but be relatively dumb compared to a Toon specializing in seducing others. Toons should get bonuses for specializing.

Keys: Keys are the equivalent of mages in the Toonverse. They range from seedy New Ground rogues to corporate assets worth billions of dollars. They are very rare, but very powerful. Keys can specialize in certain "artstyles", like summoning Toons, augmenting/healing existing Toons, or creating Toon gear usable by both Toons and Humans.

>>12112100
I like it!

>>12112040

Ah, I was waiting for this question.

In film class, I watched a very good movie, The Purple Rose of Cairo.

It was some pretty good timing, since the Toonpunk thread started a day after we started watching it.

There was a quote that stood out of the movie (and I guess it did for the teacher, too, since she wrote it down).

"The most human of all your attributes is your ability to choose."

Humans in Toonpunk have the ability to make a choice. A Key is hunted by the Megacorps or forced to work for someone. A Toon is a slave not only to the Corps, but to the very story they're born into.

Humans are, well, humans.

They're the sort of wildcards in this situation. If anyone is the mercenary in this situation, the Human is one of them.

As for actual gameplay as oppoesed to theme, While a human can't shape the Ink or use a Toon's power without risking their mental health, they can use their creativity in far more unique ways. Planning, investigation, leading, logic.

I would guess that most CEOs, corporate leaders, and cult leaders in Toonpunk are ordinary humans.

Eisner is probably a human, as would be Mark Merlino (leader of the Church of Toonology, of course!)

On a side note, The Purple Rose of Cairo is probably a great example of not only Key/Toon Created by Key relationship, but also Human/Toon romance. Just pretend the movie in the movie is a cartoon, and go from there.

>>12112132
>>12112100
both of these are good. also I'm going to now watch that movie.
So the choices as I see them for a system are
-shadowrun
-wod
-M&M
-original system.

>>12111608
How do you explain "The Animator" bugs and daffy cartoon then?

>>12112184

The Purple Rose of Cairo is also a pretty good example of how studios probably felt at first when Toons came into existence.

RKO in that movie is literally sweating and freaking out about the future of the movie business.

I can imagine the Toonpunk studios doing the same.

"A cartoon isn't supposed to be the draw! We've got Clark Gable and Fred Astaire in this picture, what do you want to see a Toon for?"

Over the next couple of decades, we see Toons dominating more and more of the screen and television, putting live action actors almost completely out of work. Live Action movies still exist, mind you, but they're nowhere NEAR as popular as they are today.

Toons seemed to appear at just the right moment, too. World is in a depression, and people were going to the movies to escape. Just the perfect timing.

>>12112304
acting and going off of a script

>>12112304

It's all part of the script.

That was a filmed cartoon, after all. You can't expect a filmed cartoon to be real, can you?

I mean, sure, Bugs and Daffy can be seen at the Brown Derby afterwards having a drink with that Ingmar Bergman guy, but you can't expect everything on the screen to be real!

>>12112304
special effects. Just like how Michal J. Fox could play himself, his son, and his time-shifted past-self in the same Back to the Future movie.

>>12112184

Dear Anons, could you please list the advantages/disadvantages of possible pre-existing game systems as you see them?
I'm still all for Mutants & Masterminds, but am interested in hearing any pros and cons for the other systems. Ideally, it should be a sysem that can model both the grittiness of a dystopian future and the sillyness and over-the-top action of cartoons.

>>12112442

Also, I know I keep saying this, and it would probably be a bad idea to actually try to implement it in rules (since trying to put rules on something that doesn't have rules is probably insanity), but creativity should really be emphasized.

I'm thinking our options would be GURPS, nWoD, Shadowrun, Mutants and Masterminds, Tri Stat, and possibly FATE or Risus.

>>12112492

Not to mention fast-paced combat.

Hi. I've been following toonpunk pretty closely. I've noticed you guys have cited Roger Rabbit in your creation. I know its a little late for this, but Toons in the original books (Who Censored Roger Rabbit? and Who P-P-P-Plugged Roger Rabbit?) work a little differently than the movie.

For instance, did you know you could shoot a Toon with a regular gun and kill it? Or do just about anything and it'd kill them off like you or me?

In the books, Toons have the ability to create dopplegangers, an effectively duplicate of the Toon. Same physical and mental characteristics (though their memories seem a little out of whack). Toons make these dopplegangers to do the more risky scenes of a comic strip or a commercial. They can produce them pretty much at will by focusing their mind on it.

These dopplegangers do not last long. 10 or 15 minutes at most, but they have been known to last longer by an exceptional outburst of willpower by the Toon. (SPOILER: like roger's dopplegangers after he's been shot.)

In the original source as well, not all Toons talk. Because the books were written with the comic strip industry in mind rather than the cartoon industry, in the original book, when a Toon talks, an actual speech bubble pops out, containing what they want to say. More humanoid Toons (like Jessica) instead choose to speak vocally.

For example:
"'Great. That takes care of your murder. What about mine?' Cleaver's world balloon came out so frosty you almost needed a squeegee to read it."

Not sure if this is any use to you guys, but for what it's worth, there you go.

>>12112511

I'd figure that was a given. But yes, fast combat and creativity should be the words of the day.

>>12112554

We're more inspired by the film than the books, but that gives credibility to the idea that Toons could possibly spend some Ink in order to create temporary creations.

As a Toon isn't creative like a human/Key is, however, they can at best only be doppelgangers, or something that's related to the world they know, or have some aspect of their own personality or feelings.

>>12112554
We're aware of the book, yes... but like the movie did, we choose to ignore most of it.

There could be a distinction between comic Toons and cartoon Toons.

>>12112582
>something that's related to the world they know
Like giant mallets, or ludicrous devices ordered from Acme, or explosives.

>>12112554
That only applies to Censored. Plugged is a sequel to the movie in which it's explained Censored was a dream Jessica once had.

>>12112607

Let's just keep focusing on 2-D animation for now, with a possible look to 3-D.

Stuff like comics, other works of art, and the crazier hybrids of things (if you want to play them) can be left for after we hammer out the very basics. We don't want to kill this by going crazy complex.

>>12112649
Indeed. it's called "overkill" for a reason.

>>12112582
How about: the vast majority of Toons are limited by their creation. Mere expressions of human creativity given form by the Ink, they react more than act - never able to use the Ink on their own.

However, some few complex Toons are sufficiently endowed with creativity that they can use some of their own - spending their own Ink to create crude sub-Toons of their own. And no matter how many times it's disproven, rumors keep going around that somehow, somewhere, someone drew a Toon...that became a Key.

Keep it away from PCs, but make it an urban legend in the setting.

>>12113161

I like it.

Keeps it vague, gives the GM options. My favorite kind of fluff.

>>12113161

T hink there are quite a few instances where toons drew some crude figures and they came to life for a short while, such as when to confound foes, to break the fourth wall or some such shenanigans, but for the setting "short-lived" would be the key word.

>>12113161

...that's perfect!

>>12113161
Some Toons (Mostly anime) are given the power to create toons in-universe (Sai from Naruto, for instance). THESE powers aren't a separate toon, but an extension of the toon that made them.

>>12113402

Would work great with some kind of summoning power. M&M features these, as well as Shadowrun.

>>12113435

While I'm at it, in a Shadowrun system, a Key would have the ability of summoning a free/companion spirit whereas in M&M, a shitload of abilities could be handled via Conjure Object or Summon X.

GO AWAY LUKE

So what limits the power a Key's creation has?
Popularity could play a factor. Maybe Toons would slowly fade away if they don't get the attention they were created for, if they fail to entertain or inspire.

>>12113458

And, while I'm still at it: /tg/, you rock!

Also:
Since the original thread started, I've been wondering about why ToonPunk carries so much of an appeal and I think, at least for me, it's seeing childhood idols being corrupted by the real world. I'm still not over the fact that pretty much everything told to us about being brave, honest and an all-around good guy will get you fucked up the ass more often than not and while the advice heroes like He-Man and Bravestarr gave at the end of each episode about going through life with a backbone, it's been frikkin' shitty to see other people succeed by being assholes while you finished last. Also, the real world with its corporate greed, mindless consumerism and lack of sheer moral integrity stands diametrically opposed to all those good 'ol cartoon shows of the past. So yeah, playing in a world where your childhood gets mangled into a grotesque parody of its former self is pretty much how I feel like inside. Much inspiration flows henceforth.

Alrighty, whining over, just mah two cents. Keep on rocking, /tg/.

>>12113508

It appeals to me not because of a perverted childhood.

It appeals because it really is a big giant parody of Cyberpunk. I know I keep saying this, but that's how I see it.

The fear of Japan talking over the market, the loss of humanity, the dominance of Megacorporations, special people with amazing powers based on a regular, slightly mundane task.

It's all there. It's just that it's cartoons.

You could also say that it could be a reflection on how pop culture and fiction dominates our lives or whatever, but literary criticism is not my strong point, I just like playing and making games.

>>12113508
>>12113582

...I just like it because it's cool.

>>12113643

This is the best answer. And I'm the one who wrote about the cyberpunk parody angle.

But enough circle jerking, back to business.

Ok, so we've established the setting. We know what we want out of the game. Have we decided on a system?

I liked that one post from earlier describing the pros and cons of the sorts of systems we wanted to use. We already did GURPS, so let me put in my contribution:

nWoD:

Pros: An easy sanity/Ink poisoning tracking system, simple combat.

Cons: Possible balance issues, severe tinkering with the system needed to get what we want, and not all that open to non-realistic combat, or at least cartoony combat.

I haven't played enough Shadowrun to make a good pro-con thing.

Damn it, I wish I had seen this thread earlier.

I know you've already have things fleshed out, but what about identity issues for toons? Like they've existed in CG and regular animation (pic related). Do they have weaknesses of both? Or whatever their 'default' state is? Pic related.

And what about toons that are (supposedly) the same character, but exist in different forms. Like Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story vs the Buzz in Star Command. They aren't recolors/knockoffs, but are supposed to be the same character?

>>12114024
I did not mean to write pic related twice.

And another thing, what about toons that (supposedly) have real people starring in them (or at least, in name). Like Jackie Chan Adventures.

>>12114024

The Buzz in Star Command and the Buzz in Toy Story are two separate characters and live under the same company umbrella. They'd probably be separate.

For Code Lyoko, they'd be 2-D off the set. They might not even be 3-D at any time at all, it could be possible that a bunch of non Key artists worked on the 3-D portion.

>>12113900

From what I've seen of the nWoD, it gets the gritty part right, but properly conveying Toons laying waste to entire city blocks with their cartoon shenanigans? Not without a whole lotta system tweaking. Combats sure are over fast, though.

As for Shadowrun, I like the attribute ranges (compare human to troll in durability, for example) as well as the possibilities physad abilities would provde for powers customization (increased physical damage for simulating cartoon mallets and stuff). Also, it features a summoning system that one could adapt for cartoon objects and creatures and its combat system still has the possibilty for fast-paced combat.
Shadowrun 4th's atrribute+skill game system is a nice plus as well.
As for simulating all out cartoon and/or anime action...still not quite there in my opinion.

I'm eager to hear other takes on this, though.

>>12114065

I think it's assumed that there wouldn't be as many of those, since Live Action television and movies are less popular in this setting. Cartoons have dominated the entertainment market and everything else hangs by a thread. It's all under the Studios' control, though. All entertainment is.

The rare ones would have a cartoon duplicate, but one based on the cartoon, not a clone at all.

I still say Mutants and masterminds is the way to go. Although I sincerely wish it had faster combat.

>>12114313

It can't be that difficult to make it faster, can it?

How fast is DC Adventures/Third Edition's combat? Is it the same?

>>12114313

Me, too. But concerning combat, what exactly is it that makes it drag so?
Seeing how it's meant to reflect superheroes beating each other up like they're stuck in DBZ, I think M&M does what it's meant to do, but aren't other cartoon combats rather drawn out too? As far as I remember, most of them consist of looooooong fight sequences as well, with protangonists finding that last bit of strength to draw upon...always one more time.

>>12114398

This isn't just for action cartoons/ anime, though.

It's for the more cartoony cartoons where the fight is over with a nice mallet THWACK and a few clever lines.

And while the fights in DBZ are known for bring very decompressed, in universe, they're over in a couple minutes.

Cartoons have fast paced fights, it's just filming and drama that gets in the way.

Also, fights in gritty games tend to be over quick, and this is a gritty setting.

I vote for an entirely new system. Sure we could, and probably will, steal good parts from other games but if we don't actually make something new and just edit something that exists it will never feel just right and it puts a HUGE strain on the players and GM who have to go through the effort of learning a system that is then torn to pieces and converted all to hell anyways.

>>12114452

Are they really taken out though, or would seeing birds dance around your head be more a representation for being momentarily stunned?
Also, in more traditional cartoons, toon fights do take longer if they are a series of outwitting each other. Cartoons like Bugs Bunny, in which Bugs takes on Elmer Fudd, rarely consist of a straigth out fight, even though here it's the question if hitting an opponent over the head with a giant mallet and K.O.ing him so he sees stars means he is "killed", knocked out or merely stunned.

I strongly contend the notion of toons having to die fast because it is a gritty setting, however, as they should still possess toon-like levels of invulnerability, ecept for Dip.

>>12114806

contest the notion, sorry

>>12114805

Ideally, yes, but this would stretch out the creation process ad infinitum. It's hard enough to come to an understanding on the setting per se. Now enter something as complex as an entire working system that can portray both gritty realism and Toon wackiness and it will take forever.
Better to use an already existing, more or less balanced system work from there.

>>12114806
A ridiculous level toon hitting another ridiculous level toon with a mallet would probably just stun them. A ridiculous level toon hitting a person with a mallet would butcher them then and there. Toon on toon combats will probably be drawn out but toon on person combats are gonna end REALLY quick with either the human getting pasted or the Toon getting Dipped.

>>12114806

I would say that when a Toon loses their health points, a variety of things can happen:

1. They are out for the entire combat, and get up after. This is probably for the more anime inspired Toons.

2. They are out for a limited number of rounds. Probably more for Loony Tunes types.

3. They die, end of story. Reserved for weapons that use Dip or Dip itself.

>>12114828

This.

An original system would be fantastic, and if we hammer it out, we could even take a shot at it, but for now, we should use something that will basically work with little playtesting.

>>12114845

Most excellent. This fits both the cartoon and grimdark qualities of the ToonPunk setting.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.

>>12114845
Agreed, the system should be centred on human/key battles with and against toons, the combat should NOT be centred around JUST toon on toon.

Well, I had a question: what exactly happens when a Key works on a creation, puts his heart and soul into it, but is never able to quite finish it, whether it be by studio interference or death or other means (best example would be Roger William's The Thief and the Cobbler)? Would the creation become a monster with a twisted half life, or what else do you think would happen?

>>12114917
Most would never even come to life, but for those who had particularly strong keys I would say yes, they do come to life as some strange half finished toon. This of course would be VERY rare.

>>12114845

That's what I was thinking.

If you're a human dealing with a high powered Toon, you'd better bring Dip or be one clever motherfucker.

>>12114973
Herein lies the issue of course, either humans have to be given a ridiculous tech advantage and Dip reserve to make up for this issue or human characters should just have a label ("this character type needs to be played by someone who knows they will lose any straight up fight with a toon no retarded players since this shit ain't balanced in the humans favour.)
Personally I would prefer the latter because not all RPGs need to be totally blanced and it would be cool to see the pure human characters (not the ones with toonmancements) having to actually work at kicking ass.

>>12114938
So, which famous examples of that would you put in the game? I mean, the characters of Thief and the Cobbler are obvious ones, but what else?

By the way, anyone else think we need to do a page on 1d4Chan for this?

>>12115035
I'm surprised we haven't done one already.

>>12115028

You can have a pure human on the team. They're the team leaders and support. You wouldn't let a Toon or an Ink-addled freak handle your investments, right?

They would be at a disadvantage against a high powers Toon, but with some clever thinking (playing a cliche or trope against a Toon who doesn't quite have a grasp over the while Free Will thing) a Toon'll meet their maker.

An Augmented Human uses their Toon abilities to take them down, a Key their creations, and a normal Human their mind.

What about characters who have multiple incarnations or who have had their design/personality changed over the years. Bugs Bunny has been drawn by many an artist with a few different styles over the years. Flanders from the Simpsons has has his whole personality swapped out at least once. If a key draws his own version of an already existing toon, fanfic writers being an already mentioned point, what happens?

>>12115028

Good point. I think game balance is a big plus though, especially for keeping humans fighting against the rising toon tide attractive. Sure, some gamers like a hardcore challenge, but too one-sided a character power curve would be somewhat counter-productive.
It's a matter of taste, maybe, but I for one would like humans to have their own edge. Like someone else wrote already, humans main strength would be adaptability (it's kept humanity going for 100000+ years, after all), in sharp contrast to a toon's limitation of being "drawn that way".
Im M&M, for example, I'd give all characters the same Power Level and while a toon might put many points into Invulnerability, Create Object etc., a human could shine in the ingenuity/adapatbility/tool useapartment, maybe with some sort of super-science, equipment bonuses, a high Int and/or reaction score etc., aiming at outwitting a toon.

>>12115126

Keep in mind that in this world, Toons are sort of like actors lost in their roles, but aware that there's a real world out there.

But you bring up a point.

A Toon might need to be updated to appeal to a younger viewer.

You need to call in a powerful Key. A very, very powerful Key. So much so that they can shape the Ink already out in the world.

Should they exist is the question.

>>12115101
Also, there are varying levels of Toon mortality, depending what sort of setting they were created for. Because they're creations, Toons have to follow the in-universe rules their creators intended them to follow. For example, the Valiant managed to kill the Weasels without Dip by exploiting the fact that they can laugh themselves to death.

Old Disney/Looney Tunes characters are effectively immortal, because their universes have no concept of death whatsoever. More gritty, "realistic" toons are still powerful, but more susceptible to "mundane" ways of dying. It all depends on how the issue of death is dealt with in their own series.

>>12115195
>>12115134
I would say that a sufficiently powerful Key can change an existing Toon's appearance. Clones exist, but convincing ones are extremely rare, and Keys capable of creating realistic clones are even rarer.

So, what happens if you acquire one of a Toon's original animation cells? Can you go Duck Amuck on their asses?

Changing a toon's appearance shouldn't be too difficult - after all, changing a person's look isn't too hard either.

Only difference is, where we would need a plastic-surgery ward and recovery time, all they need is a quick repaint.

>>12115244
There are no "original cels" of Toons. They literally come off the page after the Key creates them. The most likely method of changing an existing Toon's appearance is to have a Key apply the changes directly on them using Ink.

>>12115244

They're out of the paper. Can't touch them.

You want to go Duck Amuck, you can either be a powerful Key, they Key that created them, or screw with the picture just before birth.

>>12115232

Maybe we could handle it the Kid Radd way.
The toons don't have a unified set of physics, but instead are dictated by the rules of physics their show/comic/what have you was originally supposed to have.
Which brings up the interesting fact that the toons are really dictated by their own "programming", in this case the tropes and other such things that they believe dictate their actions.
Which is why you can have some toons be crushed flat and survive and other toons die fromm the same treatment.

>>12115269
>>12103486

This is how they make toon porn - immigrant Keys drawing bad repaints of the real thing.

Then, when they don't need them... Dipped.

>>12115354

If the Copyright enforcing team doesn't Dip the Toon and kill the Key and associates first.

Copyright must not be violated under any circumstances.

>>12115352
So here's an idea.
What if you Key up a toon that believes it can't leave the paper?
What if you Key up a toon that believes in some breaches of physics that are quite convenient for you?

>>12115354
They wouldn't need to. Half-assed or uninspired Toons usually don't last long. Their lifespans can range from weeks to seconds. Only a truly inspired or lovingly created Toon lasts.

>>12115376
Oh yeah, Copyright violations would definitely be a capital offense in ToonPunk.

Aw yeeeeah, I just had a great idea (at least I think so, at the moment):

The Dresden Files RPG (FATE system, I think) uses a game mechanic called Aspects, which are used to describe a character and give him an opportunity to earn/spend Fate points, depending on if his Aspect provides a story-related hindrance or applies to a situation befitting a certain Aspect. That way you either gain Fate points (by getting your character in trouble) or you can spend Fate points (if an Aspect applies to a situation, you spend a Fate point and get a dice bonus).
Also, thefirst Aspect is called your High Concept, a sort of short essential character description, like Wizard Private Eye.

Now what if you used these Aspects coupled with another system?
For Toons this would provide a pretty heavy drawback, as you could say that they're only allowed to take toon powers befitting their High Concept (Lola Bunny with a High Concept of "Hot Bunny" could take attraction powers, but not highly offensive ones) and any time they would act contrary to their High Concept, it would cost them a Fate point (Bugs Bunny as "Trickster Rabbit" tryig to cut someone's head off). That way, a toon who is "drawn that way" is highly limited and specialized in what he can do and what he is allowed to do. Once he has no more Fate points, it simply wouldn' be possible forhim to act any other way but according to his High Concept.
Humans however,while still possessing a High Concept, would be free to generalie their powers and act in whatever way they choose, allowing them to act in a smart and flexble manner according to the situation and giving them a definite edge over their toon opponents.

Also, Aspects would allow characters to be fleshed out more and give the GM more opportunities to hook characters into his stories and keeping the game both dynamic and character centered.

>>12115392
Then it follows those rules. It all depends on how the creators believe they should behave, as long as it works within their own internal logic.

>>12115392

Keying up a toon is a crapshoot, as was mentioned.

You think someone's gonna get lucky enought o key up a toon that actually fits the specs?
But regardless, a toon that never leaves paper would be those living doodles that move about, as for the breach thing...well..I don't know how to answer that.

>>12115434
Well, for it to work, the Key has to be able to clearly visualize what would happen if the Toon breaches those physics. However, since it's impossible to observe what happens when laws of physics are violated, Toons are usually just limited to pulling shit out of hammerspace or dynamically changing their proportions. It's ungodly difficult to create a Toon with the power to spontaneously end the universe, plus you'd have to find a key both able and willing to try it.

>>12115469
Am I wrong, or does this mean our idea is mixmax-/powergamer-proof?

>>12115487
Well, it's not safe, just unlikely. After all, if they slave away at what they want long enough, when their concentration slips and they accidentally do some little actual quirk to breath some life into it and it comes alive, it may still have much of what they want.
And of course, what they want and what they get are not necessarily related.

Alright, random example tiem.
Some kind of glowing green pony or something that eats rocks and shits uranium.
Some kind of bird that moves absurdly quickly, use it for an unstoppable delivery service because it pulls Droopy teleportation.
A toon magician that turns things into chickens.
Any kind of toon that manipulates what the Key knows about toons.

You can't "break physics" with Toons any more than their own existence already does. Think about it - two-dimensional images spontaneously transported into three-dimensional space and possessed of intelligence, awareness, communication, etc. Physics said "fuck this, I give up" about four pages ago.

>>12111323
hyper realistic CGI shit, the Avatar stuff is technically cartoon CGI, and that shit is nearly military grade. Why most cops have Dip/bullet hybrid ammo, because fuck, thanks to TERRORISM and shit, not bad to be too safe.

>>12115428

This is an excellent idea, and does a bit to balance the human/toon power differential by forcing toons to a rigid set of actions.

In the same vein of redressing the balance between human and toon players, that sort of concept seems to greatly amplify the value of knowledge skills, ex: Knowledge: Tropes(Western, Anime, CGI, etc.) allowing human players a check to know tropes that can be used to defeat a toon opponent.

Gentlemen, I think we've got something here.

when re-painting a toon, is it possible to change their personality as well? When a corp 'acquires' a hot new property, they'll want to make sure the toons are loyal, right?

And how would you re-paint or re-program a CGI?

I'm actually thinking CGI aren't eligible for Toondom.

Think about it, to think up, draw, and animate a CGI cartoon requires the efforts of entire teams of people. These aren't one-man labors of love, they're designed and created by committee. Unless every single person who's ever touched the character model is a Key, it's not going to be able to spring off the monitor. And even that's only a guess; nobody we know of has actually bothered trying to bring a CGI to life because there's nothing a theoretical CGI Toon could do that an ordinary Toon couldn't.

>>12116294
CGI characters are designed in 2d sketches before they're ever modeled

>>12116312

So wouldn't the sketch be what's brought to life, instead of the CGI? By that rationale a claymation could be brought to life because the character would have to be drawn during the storyboard phase.

I don't see what CGI Toons would add to either the setting or to the player's options. A CGI holds no advantages a Toon wouldn't already have, doesn't have a solid place in the lore, and the mechanics used to exclude Muppets and Claymation should by extension exclude them.

>>12116338
I would think that if someone wanted to bring to life a 3D character they'd make a traditional representation of it, simplifies things.

>>12115428

This...

This actually works pretty well.

How's FATE's combat? Is it fast?

As much as I want to see it in the game, let's save CGI and sprites, along with the New Grounds stuff, out of the way until we have a solid foundation.

The way I see it, their abilities and weaknesses can be solved by add-on rules to the finished product, like a new player class. Rules for them aren't essential for a completed game.

>>12117731

Not to jump the gun, but I could imaging stuff like the New Grounds and Toonology showing up real quick in a corebook or something, and then expanded upon later.

They just seem like those sorts of things.

But yeah, for now the Human Key Toon setup we've got is pretty good.

Was that 1d4chan page made yet?

So maybe Toons fit into genres, which give basic stats and properties and then they can purchase schticks and the like in character creation?

Remember: Cartoons aren't drawn anymore. they are filmed on Toon sets with Toon props and Toon actors. For example: The first few minutes of who Framed Roger Rabit.

>>12118144

Sure. And those genres can include the limitations that were expressed earlier.

We need a good name for the "Looney Tune" Western genre...

>>12118144
>>12118258

Instead of by style of animation as a genre (which by today might have mixed somewhat due to the various corporate leaks and such), we should go by genre as a type.

Action
Comedy
Drama

Stuff like that. It just so happens that animation from certain countries go into certain genres. It makes things a tad more broader.

>>12118286

Should we use "Slapstick" as a name for the standard Western comedy toons then?

Also, would Action include superhero cartoons and high-powered anime? I can see just regular Action being Speed Racer or Johnny Quest style characters.

I love the idea of a Drama genre character being the equivalent of a bard or other socially-skilled character.

>seems cudyte
Shut up Captcha, we're trying to make a game here.

So this is my character idea.

He's a key. But he's not a good artist at all. In fact he kinda sucks. Can't draw proportions, anatomy or basically regular people or characters at all. He is however a decent weapons designer. So for the majority of the adventure? He's just a support unit.

This is until he gets a cartoon arm himself.

What if you want to make a particularly large or powerful toon? Are you limited by the abilities of the key? Do you need to stockpile Ink in preparation?

could a toon become an 'ink-pire' attacking other toons to strengthen or sustain itself?

>>12118620
Seconding slapstick.

Hybrid Dip rounds, should be less effective on humans but make up for it by being able to inflict serious damage on all toons (even invulnerable ones).

Otherwise you'd just want to load up on standard ammunition if you knew you were going up against humans and maybe a few 'realistic' toons.

>>12118620

I'd figure Comedy would be broader. If the traits of a Slapstick character would be completely different than Comedy, though, I'd be all for it.

I'm just putting down pretty broad terms for now since they'd provide the most options.

>>12118719
>Can't draw proportions, anatomy or basically regular people or characters at all.

So he's Rob Liefeld?

>>12118799
Well, he can draw guns, so he sure as hell ain't Liefield.

What Liefield draws aren't guns.

A question about Keys.

Is being a Key a natural born gift, or is it possible to actually train to be a Key?

Because I'm starting to think that the first Toons were born through sheer determination on the part of the Keys.

Basically, Effort vs Talent.

>>12118783

>should be less effective on humans

How about Dip's acidic nature corrodes bullets and as such half-dip rounds tend to not last as long as normal ammunition? So if you're carrying say, dip ammo for longer than three hours your bullets will eventually all just corrode away.

This makes dip ammo effective but only for a set amount of time?

>>12118851

Now there's a question.

Nobody really knows. Being a Key just sort of happens. The only real connecting quality seems to be that it happens to artists, or at least people who draw.

One day, you're just drawing, and it just sort of happens. Something just FALLS out of the paper, or you can reach in and grab it.

Some have characters leap off the page.

Some Keys don't survive their discovery.

>>12118864

Eh, that would make it troublesome for inventory management, and finding places to buy "fresh" bullets would be a pain.

Specifically designing the bullets to contain Dip without being eaten by it reduces it's effectiveness.

>>12118851

A little of column a, a little of column b. Some people are just prodigies when it comes to breathing life into a Toon, while others get the gift after years of practice and experience.

But it requires the Key to have fully realized his creation in his mind before it steps off of the cel.

I love this thread.

Do we need to separate Comedy and Slapstick as genres, or should we just let one overtake both? I'm drawing a blank on comedy cartoons that aren't slapstick.

>>12119455
well slapstick is a subgenre of comedy so having one really specific type doesnt make much sense

>>12119455
Romantic/relationship comedy anime Toons would fall under comedy, but they're not even remotely close to the western slapstick cartoons.

>>12118864
>>12119156
I would just say that Dip bullets are extremely expensive and relatively rare. You're not going to find them in Wal-Mart, so you need either black market or government connections.

Also, there would be differing quality of Dip rounds. Homemade ones that are weakened from corrosion, so they fragment on impact and don't achieve much penetration or damage against "hard" targets. Then there are the military grade Dip rounds, with custom alloy and Dip that allows them to be equally effective against both humans and Toons with minimal loss of efficiency, though those would be extremely high end items.

>>12119593
A cheaper alternative would be using syringe rounds, but the obvious tradeoff is that they are specialized against Toons. Sure, Dip is still poisonous to humans and nasty things happen if it gets into their bloodstream, but it's not a guaranteed takedown.

Slapstick is the sort of character that can pull a massive mallet out of no where and survive being hit by said mallet. Comedy characters do not necessarily fall under that very defining trait. Consider Popeye or Ducktails (woo ooh) where characters can actually get hurt but can take more of a beating/heal faster than any reasonable and realistic character could. Comedy is far too broad of a genre to be a single choice.

>>12119616
Would suck if someone hit by a dip dart had an ink heart.

>>12119619

All right then, so we have Slapstick as a definite option.

What would be another good genre choice? Drama seems to bring forth more social Toons.

>>12119593

That would make cheap Dip bullets the preferred tool for Key or Toon assassinations then, actually. Fragmentation would wreak internal havoc instead of punching a neat hole through them. And then the Dip seeps into the blood...

In my opinion the action, comedy, drama distinction isn't very good as even in each category there are some very serious differences.
Example: Yogi Bear, sure he takes his fair share of damage and just gets back up but the damage is always blunt or minor when compared to other toons, like he'll get hit by a mallet and get a bump on his head but he doesn't posess the ability to be flattened and get back up.
Example: Any Gundam character vs a Dragonball character, both are action oriented but one toon can be felled due to a lack of food or bullets while the other can survive a planet exploding.

So 3 categories with subcategories doen't really work because than the subcategories lead to being similar duplicates of the others.

What I propose would be just create like 10 categories (or something) and then apply traits to each. That way some categories can be similar but will have some extreme differences. Now these aren't what I would call the categories nor is it all of them but here is a stepping stone.

Hana-barbera Toons
Looney Toons
Real-Robo Toons
Super-Robo Toons
Hyper-realistic Toons

etc.
I honestly think it would be more productive to do soemthing like this and it isn't any harder than the previous category system.

>>12119691

Ooh, I want to play a Super Robot toon.

JUSTICE!

>>12119691
What's the difference (in the characters) for robo and super-robo? I can see the tech difference but I thought we were only talking the toons themselves right now.

>>12119709
Most super-robo toons are actually minor super-hero-esque atleast if it's a classic super-robo.
Example: The Getter-Robo guys are FAR more powerful than any real robo human could possibly hope to be....hell their have been times when the super robo pilots have taken on the enemies ROBOTS!
So yeah pilot wise they tend to be different.

>>12117082

As far as I remember the combat in the Dresden Files RPG/FATE system is somewhat mixed, since you can erase stress track boxes by taking consequences like "broken arm" for a severe consequence, that do fill out quick, tough, if you get attacked by a massive werewolf or some such heavy hitter.
However, the Dresden Files RPG, while good at portraying the supernatural, falls short when it comes to simulating epic city-leveling combats.
Therefore I'd suggest using the M&M system and using the Aspect-system on top of that. That way, you have both the relevant combat stats of the appropriate power level combined with character-centric descriptions in the form of Aspects that still have a relevant influence on the game.

P.S.: Would you guys think that a toon's strength is influenced by his popularity among the human populace or does it depend on the toon itself once a Key creates him?

>>12119728
themoreyouknow.gif
Thanks, don't watch much anime. I think that list is good, if we realize we're missing anything later it'll be easy enough to append it. What's next on the agenda?

>>12119691
Here's some more classifications:

Anime toons (There are many genres of anime but many of the characters would fit in this distinction which is close to realistic but allows them to go big head mode and such.)

Super-Hero Toons

Action-Star Toons (Gi-Joe comes to mind...think of this as the western equivalent of the Anime Toon i.e. they can do more than a human, but not much.)

Children's Toons (No matter what country your in, those toddler shows are basically the same.)

>>12119754
I would say it's based entirely on the Key, if we turn it into a popularity power base than Mickey could have won the cold war and the Anime war in a matter of days.

>>12119691
i like these names i think they should all be named after animation studios

>>12119672
Yeah, but if the target is wearing anything thicker than a kevlar vest, those bullets may as well be BB pellets.

>>12119871
I think consensus is turning towards needles.

>>12119777
Don't forget chibi!

>>12119691
I still like the idea of genre names, it gets the point across. And I do like your distinction between Hanna-Barbera and Looney Toons, as you wouldn't have Top Cat or Fred Flintstone go toe-to-toe with a powerhouse like Daffy Duck.

So genres could be
Comedy: Cartoons where the humor is more verbal than physical (Hanna Barbera, various animes)
Slapstick: Reality-bending physical humor (Popeye, Mickey and the rest)
Action: Larger-than-life heroes who remain somewhat believable (mech pilots, GI Joe, medieval swordsmen)
Superhero: Characters that go beyond the impossible (magical girl, Dragonball Z, Superfriends)
Drama: Characters who do a lot of talking ('serious' anime, noir detectives.)

>>12120114
I'm not trying to come off as rude or anything but that still doesn't solve the issue, the titles I gave are tentative but I fully stand-by my idea to make many categories.

Example: Your comedy genre is still WAY too open, anime comedians can't survive NEARLY as much as Hana-Barberian toon could.

The actual names of the category can be whatever people think is appropriate but there is going to have to be quite a few categories or else everything starts to feel too samey. I know too many options isn't good either but there isn't THAT many types of toons, in-fact my two posts pretty much covered like 99% of the toons that people would see anyway...though I do agree I'm not too good at naming the actual categories.

>>12120186

Do we have to use categories at all? Seeing how cartoons pretty much cover the entire human experience, trying to come up with enough descriptions to cover them all seems like a lot of work, that would still leave many people unsatisfied.

Since I'm the one who broght up High Concepts and Aspects, I would suggest that a toon's category would be determined by his High Concept, as would all appropriae powers and personality.

For example:
Bugs Bunny: "Cunning Rabbit Trickster"
Sailor Moon: "Confused Schoolgirl Fighter"
Prof. Xavier "Psychic Superhero Leader"
etc. etc.

If you then work from that High Concept, Bugs Bunny could take powers that relate to Trickey and Outsmarting others, Sailor Moon could take offensive powers as well as powes that would protect her from damage due to dumb luck, and Prof Xavier superhero powers.

If you use caegories from the start, some characters might start inbetween one or more categories. If you limit powers by category, these characters will get the raw end of the stick while allowing them to pick from any of the categories they are inbetween would lead to player's trying to come up with such a character that would enable them to take the best powers available, hence detracting from playing the character you want and degrading into coming up with the best power-combination possible.
At least that's how I see it. Opinions and tastes may vary, of course

>>12120186

You're right. I wasn't trying to tear down what you suggested (in fact all I did was change names.) I look really pretentious in retrospect.

Comedy does seem too broad. Should we relocate 'realistic humor' anime into the Drama group? Or do we need three levels of comedy, with Slapstick being the most extreme example and something Flintstones in the middle?

To both allow for characters to be powerful without dominating the battlefield, I suggest that a good deal of Toon types and powers come with drawbacks, both physical and psychological.

For instance, the last thread I think mentioned Villains- Toon bad guys, who are often really cool and powerful but inherently doomed to failure due to their nature- their inventions fall apart, their schemes backfire, inevitably they fuck up spectacularly. But it's not too hard for allies who are not affected by the failure factor to pick up the pieces and pull through.

The more over-the-top a character's powers, the more obvious their flaw. Superheroes have Kryptonite. Shonen heroes are typically dumb as bricks.

Bugs Bunny is my fantasy, Wile E Coyote is my reality.

>>12120314

Poster of >>12120378 here, didn't see this until I posted.

I'm conflicted. I was originally in favor of straight up power selection in the beginning but really liked the idea of genres selected earlier.

I'm hoping there's a happy way to blend the two ideas.

Also: we need to figure out where humans come into play and how they keep up with toons. Versatility and technology seems to be the consensus, I just wonder if that's enough.

I really hate to be a spoilsport...but GURPS Toons and Tooniverse RPG already did this.

Now Feltpunk....THAT was original.

>>12120424

Excellent. I like this idea in conjunction with the Aspect system (though I'm not sure I fully understand it).

Clever toons can't stand up in a fight, even if they're the kind who are indestructible. I mean, sure, Daffy's been shot a dozen times, but he doesn't act like the Juggernaut. He's not impervious to damage, he just doesn't die when by all means he should.

>>12120459

Actually, I remember it being exactly the same as this.

>>12120444

Well, if it helped humans to survive against mamooths, cave beas and sabre-tooth tigers, it should work against toons as well, especially when humans are able to use toon weaponry against toons. Another evolutionary benefit would be humans' ability for team-work, cooperation as well as planning, something toons don't really excel at.
Having the concept of an hard-boiled apeman detective in mind I was wondering if many governments maybe increased their military research for enhanced humans as a possible counter against physical toon superiority, such as with gene splicing with other species and/or miliary/super/weird science.

>>12120424

You could model a villain's tendency toward failure either by making his superpowers come with the limitation of being shor-lived and then failing spectatculaly or by him taking him an Aspect like "Prone to failure" or "Short-lived victory". He could couner the GM's compels against his Aspect as long as he still had one of the few precious Fate Points let, but after that his masterplan would start to fall apart.

>>12120314
I've already covered most of the categories already though, besides think of these as a race/character class mix since toons would encompass both just by being toons. If someone can't make the character that they wanted with these plus a few more than I think they missed the entire point of toonpunk...a loony tune is still a loony tune, he can destory you in a single shot...too bad he's making too much of an ass of himself to actually swing it at you.

My issue with yours is it's too vague.

Example: Angsty teen with a strong sense of morality
It appears like I've made some kind of Gundam pilot, except when you realize that that also applies to Trunks from DBZ....yeah those two aren't anything alike power level wise.

I don't know I think why my idea looks bad is because we don't have a combat system, or anything else for that matter, to apply it too...but that's about to change I'll post another post with my ideas for how the game's interactions should go.

>>12120459

I can't find either of the games you mentioned through google.

I know of Toon by Steve Jackson Games, but I don't think it had anything on the same scale as Toonpunk.

>>12120520

"Characters also have a set of attributes called aspects. Aspects cover a wide range of elements and should collectively paint a picture of who the character is, what he’s connected to, and what’s important to him (in contrast to the “what can he do” of skills).
Aspects can be relationships, beliefs, catchphrases, descriptors, items or pretty much anything else that paints a picture of the character. Some possible aspects are shown here.
For many, many more examples see the aspects section starting on page XX. An aspect can be used to give you a bonus when it applies to a situation. Doing this requires spending a fate point (see below). In this capacity, called invoking an aspect, it makes the character better at whatever it is he’s doing, because the aspect in some way applies to the situation (such as “Dapper” when trying to charm a lady).
An aspect can also allow you to gain more fate points, by bringing complications and troubling circumstances into the character’s life. Whenever you end up in a situation where your aspect could cause you trouble (such as “Stubborn” when trying to be diplomatic), you can mention it to the GM in the same way you mention an aspect that might help you. Alternately, the GM may initiate this event if one of your aspects seems particularly apt. In either of these two cases, this is called compelling an aspect, and its effect is that your character’s choices are limited in some way. If the GM initiates or agrees to compel the aspect, you may get one or more fate points, depending on how it plays out."

http://www.crackmonkey.org/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html#aspects

>>12120570

Seeing these Categories as Species/Class combinations actually makes more sense now and I think either way would serve just as well if done properly.
As always, nothing is set in stone since we're just playing around with the setting, especially since individual GM's can still adjust things to their liking if need be.
S'all good.

>>12120570
Action points is how I see the game playing out.
Each type of character (On average, obviously traits would change these but this is the stereotypical set-up) would have so many action points and each point allows them to commit something. If that action is of a certain difficulty the GM makes you spend an appropriate amount of action points to make it succeed.

Humans would have the most actions points
Hyper-Realistic toons following shortly after
Most others would be somewhere in the middle
Loony Toons, Super-Heroes, and Super Anime Heroes would be at the very bottom with very few actions.

The high number of actions for humans shows their purpose and drive to do what they know needs to be done/ their ingenuity/ they aren't crazy to waste time cracking jokes in a battle.

The low action points represent the toon is making an ass of himself/doing counter-productive things/etc.

This way if someone wants bugs bunny to flank you then he has to spend all of his precious few action points just to get in a position to do it, why? Because Bugs Bunny shouldn't be trying to flank you (In the human conventional sense not Rabbit Hole sense) he should be trying to hit you with a mallet (You get my point.)

Not everyone wants to roleplaye their toon being retarded bu tthe optinon is still their for those who do and for those who don't the GM just says ("Insert Toon" is doing this which is why he only accomplished this much actual stuff)

>>12120633
Oh agreed, and I don't want to come off as an ass either I just want to see this succeed...like ALOT.

>>12120725

Aw yeah, me too! I think the problem migt be for people in general that when they are heavily invested in something, they tend to protect what they see as "theirs" with oftentimes undue fervor.
Both ToonPunk threads have been uncommonly civil, however, and as long as we remember that we are working together towards a common goal that can only benefit from as much varied input as possible, future ToonPunk threads will remain as high quality as their predecessors.
I, for one, find myself extremely pleased with both content and form with both this and the previous ToonPunk thread.
Speaking of which, is it time for a new thread already? What's the post maximum here on /tg/?

>>12120681
This I like. Not only does it allow for pretty much any idea you can imagine without sticking things into arbitrary genres, but puts them all on an even footing, in theory anyway. In practice it'll probably need some careful balance.

Mixed Toon/human teams would probably use Toons as heavy hitters, diversions and even tanks. The downside of all but the best Toons, of nearly any genre, is that they don't do subtlety. There seems to just be something about em that doesn't see a Dip coated sniper bullet coming.

>>12120926
I'm now picturing a cartoon Sherman tank saying "Which way did he go George, which way did he go?"

>>12120681
I was also thinking that for damage instead of having damage dice we would just have an extensive chart where one side would be the damage severity and the other would be what kind of toon/ human they are and what it does to them.

Example: A human is hit by a Loony Toons Mallet, under loony-toon abilities we see that a mallet (or a mallet-like attack) does Extremely Fatal damage (All damage would be relateable to base humans) so we look at the chart and see that the Human is a Human...the effect that occurs is sudden death due to squishing. But maybe that human has some form of toon enchanement body armour well suddenly he's now classified as something a little more surviveable and is only knocked unconscious. I don't know just an idea.

>>12121213

You could simulate that simply by giving the toon horrendous amounts of damage dealing potential and toon invincibility.
Humans would get immediately turned to goo when subjected to such an attack if they are not equipped with either toon weaponry and/or armor or have been augmented in some way.

Part of how "toon" a character is could be their sanity as well. As you get nuttier, you act more like a toon, and can take more damage/react more like a toon.

Examples:
A character runs into a fork in the road, with an arrow sign that has been spun by their adversaries. You'd have to make a check against your toon rating to resist following the arrow, because HOLY SHIT WHY DO TOONS KEEP FALLING FOR THAT CRAP.

Later, the ground falls out from beneath the party. Straight-up humans that are pure sane fall like gravity expects them to. Toon-ish characters make checks to see if they notice gravity should be affecting them.

The crazier you are, the easier it is to make a "behave as toon" check, but also the harder it is to make a "behave as logical human" check.

>>12121335

Nice. One way to model that would be by a GM compelling a toon character's Aspects or High Concept like "Cartoon Coyote Engineer", telling him something like "Oh, but the sign saying Roadrunner's be here points to the canyon" and the player either declining and paying a Fate Point or agreeing and earning a Fate point that he could later use to affect the setting, fuel one of his powers or activate the Aspect "Cartoon Coyote Engineer" to get a dice bonus when constructing a particularly complex death trap.

Congratulation, this is your setting.
Also, pokemons.

Or is it?

>>12122246

I figure that since we're in the game making phase, this is going to be a little slow. The mechanics parts of an original creation always tend to be.

If this thread isn't nearing its end, I could keep it bumped with a story or something.

I believe in you /tg/, you can do it!

>>12121394

This could work well with a sort of "Toon modifier", which would give them either a penalty or bonus to a situation. The player and GM would both know the modifier, so if the player makes a Search check to see that the log he's crawling through is now hanging out over a cliff, then the GM would subtract the Toon modifier from his roll, since it's appropriate for the character. The player could add that same modifier to Resistance rolls or something to see how much damage they take from falling off the cliff.

This might also help to balance out power between kinds of toons. More realistic or "less extereme" toons may have a smaller modifier, which creates less risk for them at the cost of not being wildly successful.

Mark hated the silence.

From the moment Security escorted him from his desk and brought him to the office, to the ten minutes the man in the horned rimmed glasses just simply stared at him, there had been nothing but silence.

Mark couldn't take it anymore. He knew why they called him up, he knew what was going to happen. Why wouldn't they just get it over with?

"Just tell me why I'm here", he mumbled.

The man in glasses blinked. "Excuse me?"

"Just tell me why I'm here!" Mark shouted.

The man in glasses smiled.

"You want to know why you're here?"

The man slapped down a very thick manilla folder.

"Very well, I'll tell you."

The man in glasses opened the folder, and pulled out a large report.

"The Disney server security is very strong, Mr. Mendez", the man said, "It has been developed over the past 20 years. It has been broken and repaired and cracked and patched countless times. The latest T20N build was developed by our finest computer scientists, Human, Key, or Toon, and was thought to take at least 20 years to break."

The man flips a few more pages.

"Imagine the company's surprise when an IT student, hired only so that his tuition to a Disney run university would be waived, broke into our network during his lunch break."

Mark gulped.

"And then proceeded to take $20,000 out of the company account."

Mark fixed his gaze on the table between the two as hard as he could.

"And then began spending it on a large lunch with the 15 minutes he had left in said lunch break."

Mark did not look up. The man in glasses took his glasses off, rubbed his eyes, and began to dig further into the file.

"You came from quite the adversity, Mr. Mendez", the man said as he put his glasses back on. The man pulls out another report.

"Born in the 3rd class area in one of our Experimental Prototype Communities of Tomorrow, became associated with one of the various New Ground gangs in the area, arrested twice, spent a year in Juvenile Detention, and took the fast track to a computer science major at Celebration University. It really seemed like you were turning your life around, and the company was more than happy to accommodate you."

The man took a large amount of pictures and threw them on the table for Mark to see.

"You had a wonderful life before the break in, Mr. Mendez. A good job, a good education, and lots of friends, all of which you made over your time in attendance."

Mark looked at the pictures. They were taken at every aspect of his life, hanging out with his friends, chatting on the phone with his ex, crying alone after the break-up, and one of him in the shower, just for good measure. He wanted to vomit.

"I think it goes without saying that you threw your life away, Mr. Mendez", the man in glasses said, "Or, it would had you not received some attention."

The man took a phone from his pocket, pressed a button, and said, "Send him in."

A Toon walked into the room. Mark's gaze was immediately drawn to the Toon's long nose, wide eyed grin, and angular features. He had the look of a mad scientist (at least that's what Mark guessed. A Toon wearing a labcoat couldn't really be much else).

"Dr. Doofenshmirtz is here to represent the computer scientists and your fellow IT higher ups who don't want to send you to one of our luxurious off shore prisons. He's a Toon, yes, but we've come to trust him. As much as you can trust a Toon, anyway."

Doofenshmirtz seemed to either ignore or not care about the last comment, and said in an accent Mark could not pin down, "And why would you? The boy has a mind! A mind that can take down the finest security! AND IF I COULD JUST HARNESS YOUR MIND, WHO KNOWS WHAT DIABOLICAL PLANS I COULD---"

"Doofenshmirtz, character", the man in glasses interjected.

Doofenshmirtz stopped talking, took on a blank look, and then became red in the face.

"My apologies. I lost myself again, didn't I? I told myself I wouldn't do that, but I just came off the set, and---"

"That's fine, Doofenshmirtz, you can't help it", the man in glasses said as he smiled. He turned back to Mark.

"He may not seem like much, but he is just one of many that say you would still be a wonderful asset to this company. So, I'm giving you a choice."

Mark finally looked directly at the man.

"A choice?" he asked.

"Yes", droned the man, "I can either have you arrested now, your funds confiscated, and your citizenship erased..."

The man took off his glasses and looked directly into Mark's eyes.

"Or I can present you with a brand new career opportunity with this company."

Mark gulped.

'What kind of opportunity?"

The man put his glasses on, and said, "You would no longer work for this company officially. As far as the outside world and government is concerned, you no longer work for Disney Animation. However, you would report directly to us, and you would be able to use your talents to accomplish certain tasks. We are not responsible for any harm that would come to you, nor would we continue to pay for your education."

Mark audibly gasped.

The man held up a finger, "But. But, Mr. Mendez, we will pay you. As a freelance worker for our more special tasks, we are authorized to pay you far more than any ordinary employee."

Mark took a deep breath.

"How much are we talking?"

The man in glasses grinned, and stated, "A good job will net you at least two million dollars. In cash."

Mark's eyes widened.

The man in glasses chuckled. He knew that look, he had him hook, line, and sinker.

"It's a lot more than twenty thousand dollars, huh?"

Mark nodded.

"Then all I need is your answer."

Mark's mind told him to at least wait a little bit before even considering the vague offer, but Mark instantly spat out, "I'll do it!" just the same.

The man, still grinning, pressed another button on the phone.

"Audible signature has been obtained. Security, escort Mr. Mendez out of the building. Doofenshmirtz, you can go."

Mark began to get up from the table when two large gorilla arms grasped him tight, while a regular arm smashed a cloth into his face, making him lightheaded.

As his consciousness faded, Mark heard the man say, "Mark Mendez, you are now a Runner for Walt Disney Animation Studios. The lifetime contract begins now. Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life."

Everything went black.

epic thread is epic.

I woke up today, and saw this thread.

I love you, /tg/.

When do we need a new thread? Whoever starts it should include sup/tg/ links to this thread and the first one in the OP.

>>12124544

No idea, but I'm sure the next person will do that.

I think this thread brought us some good progress. We've got an idea of what we want to do for system, and we've got a pretty fleshed out setting.

Good job, gentlemen.

>>12123933
Instead of a "toon" bonus, perhaps it could work by character archetype or genre, so a two-fisted detective Toon would gain bonuses to persuasion and investigation, but would have penalties to resist the wiles of a seductress.
Basically, the GM could apply the penalty or bonus to whatever makes sense for the types of plots that character would find themselves in.

>>12124275
I like the story but I have a problem with a toon beein an actual IT specialist. Toons might be able to build machines that can do incredible things but there is no actual science behind it. They rather add lots of uneeded valves/blinking lights and their explaination is technobabble that makes no sense at all.

>>12124756
Same here... Although toons designing computers that toons can operate might be an interesting idea.

The problem would be to getthem to interface with human computers.

>>12124756
He's not really the IT guy - he's just the guy who gets coffee, but they let him think he does important stuff to make him feel better.

>>12124756

I'd figure that would work in a company's favor.

An Toon created Toon Tech security function would be another obstacle for a Hacker to get through, and would be a nightmare for a reverse engineer.

A Key created Toon Tech would probably be much more functional, if slightly illogical.

A Key's Toon Tech would be a portable iPod (filled to the brim with the hottest Disney/Insert MegaStudio Here tracks!) where every song has a subliminal track that turns your brain and the iPod into a computer capable of hacking on the go. Removing the earbuds would reveal that it's just a normal iPod.

A Toon made Toon Tech would be a metal box with wires everywhere and a few switches, that could be used as a teleporter or something.

Toon made Toon Tech could probably only work with Toons or something.

I don't know, I'm just throwing things out.

One aspect idea: the Mary Sue.

You're perfect. Or at least you like to be/think you are. The guy who made you designed you to be the best at everything. Unfortunately you suffer one drawback: creatively you are bankrupt.you have no original or redeeming factors. Any aspect of you that could be considered a "flaw" is just a contrived excuse as to why you aren't as poorly thought out as you are. And because of this you suffer much more horribly than other more thought provoking toons. All of your fate/action/hero points are divided in half and you get a -10 on all social interaction rolls.

Bump

Toon weapons shouldn't be more deadly than regular weapons. Like a toon sledgehammer or skillet to the face would hurt a human as much as their real world counterparts.
Toons are just better at surviving them.

>>12124947

I think it could be done.

However, I feel that a Mary Sue-esque character would probably be loved by everybody--at first.

You know when you meet a person that you think is just the coolest, but the more you get to know them, the more shallow and terrible they really are?

That's what a Mary Sue character would be like.

>>12125851

Toons have ungodly strength and can warp the laws of physics.

I'd think they could pull off a bit more damage on an unarmored human than they would on an unarmored Toon.

Thread is getting long in the ears so I made a new thread to carry discussion over to.
>>12125714

I posted the big thing I saw in this thread last night, character creation, since then not much else has really gone through.
Cool story though.