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  • File : 1291785906.jpg-(50 KB, 711x352, ApocalypseClassBattleship.jpg)
    50 KB Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:25 No.13072096  
    Hey /tg/, just doing some back of the envelope calculations here: if the Apocalypse-class battleship (I got its dimensions from Wikia and assumed it's as tall as it is wide) is as densely populated as a modern aircraft carrier (comparing to the Gerald R. Ford class which will start launching in 5 years, which has a reduced complement compared to the Nimitz) then it has a crew of roughly 40 million - around the population of the state of California.

    Do we have a canon figure for their crew complement? I'm looking for a point of origin for my Imperial Guard regiment, which I'm fluffing up as having been born on a massive Navy ship. Any particular Imperial Navy ships that any of you remember as being particularly badass for whatever reason but not getting destroyed heroically?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:31 No.13072151
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    Battleship crews range in the hundreds of thousands.

    For comparison, according to Rogue Trader, your average escort (Destroyer, Frigate) has a crew ranging from 20,000-28,000. A Light Cruiser averages 50,000-65,000. A Cruiser has around 90,000 on average.

    So a Battleship probably has two or three hundred thousand souls aboard. Maybe half a million.

    Of course, automation can greatly effect this, the Mechanicus Lathe-class Monitor-Cruiser (a light cruiser hull) from Into the Storm has a crew compliment of only 35,000, most likely thanks to the Red Priesthood's advance technology.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:40 No.13072227

    Hey, thanks. So if the Imperium wanted to conquer/colonize a planet, what kind of ships would it send? How many people?

    I just read Dead Men Walking and they mentioned that the planet it took place on was a "new" world with only nine billion residents. I assume that means the Imperium sends colonists in the hundreds of millions range at least. Is there a canon mention of how many people troopships or colony ships carry?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:43 No.13072258
    Every human-colonisable planet has most likely been colonised and then forgotten about. For the rare few that have no population, then yeah they'd probably just pack freight and battleships with human colonists.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:49 No.13072315
    Read up the Tau fluff if you want to learn how the humans conolinze things, it begins with them trying to colonize T'au, but the colony fleet got lost in a warp storm.

    It made no mention of a military escort, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:52 No.13072339

    What sort of "new planet"? Newly colonised, or new to the Imperium? Remember most worlds were colonised back before warp travel got difficult, and some are still being added to the Imperium's control.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:53 No.13072353

    Was this in the Tau codex? I was thinking I'd have my Guard regiment come from an Imperium conquest & colonization fleet that got lost in the warp for a generation and the troops are actually the descendants of the original batch of soldiers, mixed in with some aging veterans.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:55 No.13072372
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    Transports (light cruiser sized, about half the crew requirements) full of materials and colonists.

    If they expected trouble there would be no colonizing force just military ships escorting transports full of Imperial Guard regiments who, after being tithed, are traditionally trained on board ships on the way to their deployments.

    The successful/surviving soldiers are sometimes allowed to leave service and form the core of a colony population, with further colony ships adding more people.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:56 No.13072378

    Oh, of course, the original fleet sent to colonize the Tau homeworld. Maybe that'd be a good source for the ship. Cool.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:57 No.13072391
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    Oh, dedicated transports you can probably squeeze a couple million into the cargo holds, though the conditions would be absolutely squallid.

    Military troop transports carry entire REGIMENTS (sometimes several), as well as training facilities (see what I said above).
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:58 No.13072410
    >At just under 4 kilometers in length and just under 2 kilometers in breadth at its widest point, the Apocalypse is a colossal starship with only Emperor and Retribution-class battleships besting it at size.

    40k wikia is wrong here, it is definitely longer than that, since a Lunar class cruiser is 5 kilometers according to Rogue Trader rulebook. The Armada document which is the only cited source does not state Apocalypse's dimensions.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)00:59 No.13072413
    Gotta remember that 40K lurves fuckhueg things. So comparing population density to a highly dense aircraft carrier is probably way off.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:00 No.13072428
    Then edit it. English lexicanum is terrible though, they deleted the article on the god Vaul for being "unsourced". Apparently the German one is a lot better.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:01 No.13072435
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    Troop transports

    Carry multiple regiments (+camp followers according to Gaunt's Ghosts), plus all the armor and equipment to support them

    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:02 No.13072443
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    GW fluff is wildly inconsistent, however I personally prefer to consider Rogue Trader's measurements and compliments as "Canon", as they've so far given plenty of examples for a variety of hulls.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:02 No.13072445

    Yes, aside from the size thing the 40k wikia's article is OK.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:02 No.13072447
    Just keep in mind that you've got "crew" and then you've got all the other people on the ship that aren't crew.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:06 No.13072481
    There's a really cool picture in the BFG rulebook of thousands of men rolling a giant mouse weel like contraption with their feet and being whipped by tech servitors to power something in the ship

    In the 41st millenium gally slaves still have there place
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:07 No.13072496
    We had a funny thread once focused on the ignorance of Imperial ship crews and their roles on the ship. Of note was the whipmaster, his understand of physics in terms of whips and his belief the engine was a ring of whips, whipping each other.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:08 No.13072502
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    Where there's a whip...
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:08 No.13072516
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    there's a way.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:09 No.13072518
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    Imperium does use old military ships as transports when need arises.

    I doubt though that they'd use a battleship or a shiny new battlecruiser to do that considering the prestige associated with them.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:10 No.13072535

    Oh my. Okay, so raising an entire Guard regiment from the disaffected children of a single ship's crew would be far from out of the question, then.

    I was thinking of starting up Battlefleet Gothic as my local GW store is going to be doing a BFG campaign in January. I thought that having a strong connection between my 40k Guard regiment and my Imperial Navy fleet would be pretty cool.

    Has anyone played Battlefleet Gothic before? What's a good strategy for putting together a small fleet?
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK 12/08/10(Wed)01:12 No.13072555

    A Small fleet? Start out with a few cruisers and some escorts, assuming Imperial.

    I play Tau BFG, and I find them hilarious.

    >proclaims Remode
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:13 No.13072567
    Honestly, BFG is an excellent game that can be a lot of fun. Imperial fleets have a strong torpedo advantage compared to most other races, and I've seen a lot of opponents structure their list around that. You also have excellent prow armour, so rushing in with overwhelming firepower is a viable option.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:15 No.13072583

    Chaos has much more ordiance of the non-torpedo variety though
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:18 No.13072610

    Well, there we are. My Guard regiment is from an Exorcist Grand Cruiser sent to colonize T'au, lost in the warp, and then recovered millennia later thousands of light-years away, though only about twenty subjective years had passed on board. They were reorganized into a small (by Imperial Navy standards) task force, assigned some escorts and sister cruisers, and sent out again to conquer whatever fallen habitable worlds they could find.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:18 No.13072614
    Oh yeah, I forgot, Nova Cannons are an excellent Imperial toy. Lastly, I'll give you a heads-up that BFG is pretty well balanced, but there are a couple of outliers. Mainly: Necrons are strong, and Orks are kind of weak.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:20 No.13072636

    Try to pick ships that work together and remember that you need ordnance cover (torps/fighters). Lances and weapon batteries are both needed.

    This is very much simplified, exactly what ships are available depends on the fleet list, at the moment there are three lists in GW's site (Bastion fleet guarding the Eye, Armageddon Fleet List and Gothic sector fleet list, although you can make up new fluff for them).

    Only the Bastion fleet for example has Grand Cruisers of any kind, Oberon class battleship is in Armageddon list only, and the Dominator class cruiser is only in the Gothic list.
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK 12/08/10(Wed)01:21 No.13072643

    >Necrons are strong

    Understatement of the gods-damned century.

    >contrasti czaock
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:21 No.13072645
    Sounds good, but not to shit on your parade:
    >My Guard regiment is from an Exorcist Grand Cruiser sent to colonize T'au, lost in the warp, and then recovered millennia later
    Purged by the Inquisition right there.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:21 No.13072651

    So Bastion fleet list it is, if you plan to use the Exorcist.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:21 No.13072652
    Well, I don't want to take the edge off the rape-knife that will be his first engagement with a Necron fleet.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:22 No.13072660
    Nah, lost in the warp doesn't mean disregarded complete. Subject to intense purification tests most likely, but even Titus lets you go if you pass his crazy purity trials.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:23 No.13072666
    Could I use a Vengeance model for an Exorcist? With its fighter & bomber wings the Exorcist could be the centerpiece of a small carrier battle group, I'm thinking...what other ships would you all recommend taking along with it for a balanced force?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:27 No.13072719
    Could be a nice addition to your background fluff actually, al lyour soldiers had to be mind-probed, stick their hands in boiling oil, and then beaten into a gooy, homogeneous pulp by a Grey Knight Captain.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:27 No.13072724

    My Guardsmen have a Lord Commissar from the Steel Legions as their HQ currently. Makes sense if they're not entirely seen as reliable.

    I'm sure if they showed up out of nowhere and saved a planet under siege by the Ruinous Powers, they'd at least get a chance to prove themselves to the Inquisition. The Imperium might be crazy but it's not known for refusing to use the tools it has at its disposal.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:31 No.13072761
    Okay, so I'd need a Bastion fleet list if I wanted to take an Exorcist. What two cruisers should I take with it? Lunars are well-balanced, right? What'd do well with fighter & bomber support?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:34 No.13072786
    When writing his fluff, make sure you take into account that Armaggedon is on the other side of the Galaxy from T'au (Segmentum Solar and edge of Segmentum Ultima respectively)
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:34 No.13072792

    Vengeance, Exorcist, Avenger, Executor and Retaliator grand cruisers all share the basic hull. Just slap batteries and launch bays and you've got the Exorcist.

    Swords are probably the best escort for the cost, and provide batteries for killing Eldar. Dauntless is without doubt the best light cruiser. Of actual cruisers, Gothics are good but require battery support. Lunars can get a Nova cannon, and are your cheapest way of getting them since the Bastion fleet has no Dominators.

    Tyrants pay too much for their range upgrades and Dictators are only 10 points less than Exorcists, with same lauch capacity, much less durability and weaker, shorter ranged batteries. Of the grand cruisers, Vengeance is good and worth squadroning with the Exorcist if you can spare the points for it, but if we are talking about a small fleet of 1000-ish points, it is hard to do unless at least three of the four cruisers needed are Dauntlesses.
    Mars, though expensive, is the best of the three battlecruisers and has everything (lances, batteries, launch bays and a nova cannon) but it is the Exorcists replacement so you'd have to figure how to justify not making it your flagship instead.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:37 No.13072824

    Oh, he's a recent addition from the Departmento Munitorum to keep the regiment loyal, I'm sure. Usually commissars aren't from the same world as their regiments, right?

    When Krieg started producing regiments, they added commissars and standardized their organization but otherwise just sent them into combat.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:39 No.13072841
    They are generally not from the same world but there are a few exceptions (I believe Drookian Fen Guard have commissars from the same worlds as the regiments because they respond very, very poorly to offworld commissars).
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK 12/08/10(Wed)01:40 No.13072846
    See, there are so many Imperium ships, it's hard to keep track of them.

    Tau ships are easy to remember...mainly because there is one for each class.

    Custodian Battleship, Protector Cruiser, Missionary Cruiser, Castellan Escort, That Radar Ship, and That Tiny Ship Nobody Gives A Fuck About That The Custodian Carries.

    >toffic "Erinnerung
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:40 No.13072847

    I figured the Exorcist would be a good starting point for the fleet as its fluff fits my needs perfectly. It's about a quarter of my 1000 points there. If I add a pair of cruisers I'll put the rest of my points into escorts. Does that make sense or do I need more cruisers? Maybe a light cruiser or two?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:45 No.13072911
    >(Unofficial Designation)
    I envy the Tau their torpedoes though.

    Also, the first time you come up against some fleets in BFG it will be a complete bitch if they are competently played. Either Eldar fleet and Necrons are the best illustrations of this. Necrons are insane, whereas the Eldar playstyle is just complete dicks.

    50% of your points on cruisers is a good minimum, in my experience. More if you can.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:46 No.13072918

    Exorcist+Fleet Admiral
    Gothic+Lunar or Lunar+Lunar
    3 Swords

    is 745 points which makes for a decent 750 point bracket fleet.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:47 No.13072926

    The colonization fleet drew their troops from multiple systems anyway, the regiment would probably welcome a veteran of the Third War for Armageddon with respect and open arms.

    I've only played a few games with my 500-point Guard list so far but the Lord Commissar has already distinguished himself as my most consistent killer of space marines. He took down most of a squad of Space Wolves practically by himself (he defied the odds and got four of them on a charge and then finished off the lone Wolf remaining in their assault phase). Oddly enough he has yet to be killed before the rest of my platoon (I always remind my opponents that he's an independent character and they can target him separately but they've always focused on killing my 30-man Guard platoon first, even though the LC is the only thing keeping them from running away and getting sweeping advanced to death).
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:49 No.13072940

    Removing one Sword and taking two Lunars would allow for them both to take a Nova Cannon as well.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:50 No.13072947
    Two Nova Cannons in 750pts is pretty nasty.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:51 No.13072960

    Thanks gents. You're helping me out a lot here.

    Now I just need to figure out the name of the Exorcist that'd also go well as a name for my regiment (I figured they'd be named after the ship instead of their many disparate ancestral homeworlds).

    Any suggestions for something that'd be awesome as a ship name AND a regiment name?
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK 12/08/10(Wed)01:52 No.13072967

    The Lunar Whale

    >escape, boleries
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:58 No.13073037
    88th Lunar Whales, Jesus.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:58 No.13073039
    The Litany of Litany's Litany
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)01:59 No.13073047
    Battle Barge: Maximum Fuck
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:00 No.13073052
    Rape Bus
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:02 No.13073075
    The Emperor's imperially imperial imperium.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:03 No.13073090
    Okay, a Grand Cruiser, two cruisers, and three Sword frigates comes in at $70. Worth the price of admission, I think...that's about the price of one X-Box game or what I'm going to spend to put my 750 point Guard list up to 1000.

    As far as expanding that up to 1000 points, what would you all recommend? More escorts? A pair of Dauntlesses?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:05 No.13073099
    Dauntless Light Cruisers are downright sexy

    captcha: Herped
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:05 No.13073100
    At least one more cruiser, maybe bulk up the Sword squadron to 4 ships.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:06 No.13073120

    Two dauntlesses and another Sword would get you to exactly 1000 points.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:08 No.13073141
    I could take eight Cobra destroyers for ZOMG TORPEDOES.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:16 No.13073232

    Huh, that's not a hard decision. That way I'd have 4 cruisers - ready to throw in a battlecruiser or battleship to go up to 1500.

    It says I can have a grand cruiser or battlecruiser for every two cruisers, and I can have a battleship for every three cruisers - this doesn't mean I need five cruisers to take a grand cruiser and a battleship, does it? I'll have four cruisers - I can get a grand cruiser and a battleship legally, right?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:17 No.13073241
    That's how I've always done it. I also thought Grand Cruisers counted towards Battleship allowances though, which your post seems to imply is not the case.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:20 No.13073274

    Grand Cruisers don't count towards battleship allowance, this should be fixed in FAQ2010.

    Three cruisers will still allow you to get a grand cruiser and a battleship. Two cruisers would allow a battlecruiser and a battleship.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:21 No.13073285

    In this fleet list (the Segmentum Obscurus, Bastion Fleets List) it specifically says they do not.

    What battleship would you recommend? My options are:

    Apocalypse class battleship . . . . . . . . . 365 pts
    Emperor class battleship. . . . . . . . . . . . 345 pts
    Retribution class battleship. . . . . . . . . . 365 pts
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:25 No.13073327

    Emperor and Retribution costs have been swapped. The proper price is in the Emperor's profile in GW's site.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:28 No.13073357

    Ahh I see. Yeah, I thought that was strange. So, the Ships of the Imperium pdf is more up to date?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:28 No.13073360
    Would suggest Emperor or Retribution. Apocalypse can be useful in the right situation but is generally considered the worse of the four battleships available to Imperial fleets. You only get the choice of three obviously, but the Oberon isn't a crippling loss.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:31 No.13073382

    If I take the Emperor: Shark assault boats? Only 5 points?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:35 No.13073418
    May as well, unless you really need that five points for something.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:41 No.13073464
    Battlefleet Gothic 1500 point Fleet List

    Fleet Admiral 75 points
    with extra reroll

    Emperor-Class Battleship 370 points
    with Shark Assault Boats

    Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser 230 points

    Lunar-Class Cruiser 180 points

    Gothic-Class Cruiser 180 points

    Dauntless-Class Light Cruiser 110 points

    Dauntless-Class Light Cruiser 110 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Sword-Class Frigate 35 points

    Comes out to exactly 1500. Good?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:49 No.13073538
    Oh man, I've been reading the rules wrong...I assumed 6+ armor meant that you had to roll 6+ to save against damage...looks like it's the other way around. Damn, ships are tough.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:52 No.13073573
    Well, Imperial ships are especially tough on the prow. Chaos ships near-universally have a 5+, and Eldar ships are fragile as hell.

    Your list looks okay. I would aim to proxy it a bit to get it down. Imperials have a variety of tactics available, and you should find out which one suits you best.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)02:57 No.13073624

    I was thinking of possibly taking two Firestorms, two Cobras, and three Swords (same points cost total) just to get some variety in there.

    Additionally I was thinking of taking torpedoes on both the Dauntlesses - 3 lances vs 6 torpedoes, what do you think?

    What are the downside of lances? Not as useful against hordes of escorts? I'm still getting a feel for how the game rules work.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:01 No.13073667
    Not useful against eldar
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:02 No.13073674
    Lances lack raw firepower but make up for it with the special rules for lance weapons. A mix of lances and batteries is a good idea. I am not a big user of escorts so I don't really feel comfortable giving you advice on them.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:08 No.13073732
    Remember large sections of the ship will be abandoned
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:15 No.13073798
    Eldar laugh off lances. Got it. Is there a fleet that ordnance sucks hard against? My two big ships are both carrier types.

    I'm trying to copy IG ground tactics somewhat - send the expendable stuff forward to soak up hits while keeping the big heavy stuff back and firing from long range.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:18 No.13073818
    Did Craftworld Fleets ever get fleshed out? There's only rules for super "we saved money by using no armor" pirate ships.

    I heard there were Dragon Ships that were the craftworld Fleet.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:21 No.13073834

    Yes, Craftworld Eldar PDF is in GW's site.

    They have armor that is equal to that of Chaos ships, but still take crits easier like Corsairs. The fleet is more cruiser focused than the Corsairs but has worse escorts.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:29 No.13073877
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    Funny how Dark Eldar ships are actually the toughest Eldar ships.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:33 No.13073912
    Maybe I'm reading the rules wrong here or something, but...

    What is the point of using fighters to defend bombers in a wave? If you're targeting enemy ships with the wave, wouldn't you be better served in every case by sending nothing but bombers?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:38 No.13073947
    Nova Cannons or torpedoes are probably your best long range hitter. You can't neglect other ordnance, but non-torpedo Imperial ordnance is usually run as interference against enemy ordnance. Chaos will outgun you at close range, so your tactic of bringing long-range guns to bear is actually a fairly good one. Just make sure you have the weapons to do it, and the necessary defences.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:39 No.13073953
    Ordnance v. ordnance, I think. Of course, Orks don't have to make that choice, that's one of their strengths.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:42 No.13073975

    You'd want to include fighters in a wave because you can split them away to intercept stuff if need arises. The fact that they can defend bombers is just a bonus.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:43 No.13073990

    Spess Mehreen Thunderhawks also perform both fighter and assault boat duty.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:44 No.13073992

    Okay, so let me get this straight - if one squadron of fighters jumps a wave with two squadrons of fighters and two squadrons of bombers, it'll take down one squadron of escort fighters but the rest will get through, right? Or do they all get removed?

    What about if you have a wave of four fighter squadrons that hits a wave of two torpedoes - do two of the fighter squadrons get removed, or all of them? Or just one?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)03:58 No.13074099
    Okay, counting it all up, at 1500 points I'll have 28 torpedo tubes and twelve squadrons of attack craft, eight of which can be assault boats.

    I figure I'll keep the Firestorms back with the carriers to try to lance any major concentrations of enemy ordnance, but the other escorts can go forward at full speed and try to come about and flank the enemy once they pass them, if they don't just die. The second line will be the light cruisers, cruisers, and Firestorms, with the Emperor and the Exorcist in the rear, maintaining extreme range until the enemy is crippled by long-range fire, at which point they can safely advance and finish the enemy off with the help of their gun batteries. Seems good on paper. I think.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:05 No.13074155
    Well, good luck. Remember to try before you buy if you can, using proxies or something.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:11 No.13074195

    Yeah, for sure. I think I'd like to have a model for my Guard regiment's ship anyway, though, and that's half the price of my 750 point list, so that at least is kind of a no-brainer. The manager of the local GW is nerding out about running an epic BFG campaign for the store, and I wouldn't mind getting in on that, but we'll see how he follows through on it.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:12 No.13074196
    It's pretty easy to see which of the Imperial Navy ships are meant to advance forward. Heavy prow armour combined with torpedoes or nova cannons means advancing, long range weapon batteries and no prow armour/weapons (except turning batteries) means stay abeam and fire.

    Emperor, Oberon, Exorcist and Vengeance are meant to go abeam and shoot the enemy with long range broadsides and launch attack craft. Lunars, Dominators and the like are meant to advance forward shooting their torps or nova cannons and start utilizing their short ranged broadsides when that advance brings enemies to their firing arcs.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:22 No.13074233
    Oh hey - if I hit them with bombers and torpedoes at the same time, their turrets can only fire at one or the other. Fortunately, I'll have plenty of both. Could be the way to deal with 5-turret battleships - either take d6 hits per bomber squadron or let all those torpedoes through. Ouch.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:25 No.13074252
    I should give all my ships Culture ship names.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:27 No.13074260
    It's not as easy to arrange as that in practice, and as I say non-torpedo ordnance is something Imperial fleets are often outpaced at, but yes. If you can pull that off, very good idea.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:27 No.13074265
    I will hunt you down and kill you slowly, and I read Culture novels.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:31 No.13074284

    Remember that Tau Gal'leath, Emperor and Oberon are the only 5 turret battleships. Retributions, Apocalypses, Despoilers, Desolators and Demiurg Strongholds all have 4 turrets. Tyranid, Necron and Eldar ships work a bit differently but don't have more than 4 turret equivalents in any case.

    Tyranids are probably the most durable fleet against ordnance, since spores can intercept both attack craft and torpedoes at once and their launch bays can maintain twice their number of attack craft on the table.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:37 No.13074306
    Another thing to remember is that Imperial ships are extremely big but a lot of it isn't doing anything, a great deal of the walls are just flat and bare of any weaponry or bays of any kind, rather inefficient really. Still, it gives them bulk and it's harder to hit their weak points when you don't know where the hell their weak points are meant to be.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:39 No.13074311
    I took this as BFG advice at first and I was like, "Wait, no. Look. This fires in three arcs." Then I realised you meant fluff and felt like an idiot.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:46 No.13074348
    Of the playable fleets, humans and orks are the only ones that emphasize broadsides, and Orks probably do that only because their ships are so often built of looted human stuff.

    Tau and Eldar concentrate their weapons to the front arc, Tyranids slightly less but much more so than humans, and all Necron weapons can shoot at multiple arcs and even divide their firepower between them regardless of facing.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)04:53 No.13074388
    Because Necrons are overpowered dicks.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)05:34 No.13074613
    Some upcoming changes, since HA is completing the FAQ and additional rules for submission to GW:

    Concerning the Apocalypse, FAQ2010 allows its broadside lances to shoot up to 45 cm ranges on Lock-on orders without penalty. The Thrusters critical hit suffered from shooting 45-60cm does not cause a damage point loss either anymore, although it must be repaired like a normal thruster damage.

    Mars and Armageddon class battlecruisers can buy additional turret for 10 points, in addition Armageddon can swap its torpedoes for a Nova Cannon for 20 points, and Overlord class battlecruisers get a 15 point cost reduction (to 220 points).

    Imperial Navy's Grand Cruisers count as cruisers for battleship selection, and prow critical hits against Vengeance and its variants (Exorcist, Avenger, Executor and Retaliator) will be treated as if no critical had happened, meaning no reroll in crit table. Exorcists launch bays can take Shark Assault boats for 10 points.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)12:24 No.13077125

    Where are you getting this FAQ?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)12:28 No.13077157

    Those are two good Culture-style ship names!
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)12:44 No.13077323

    Why would Imperial ships have large empty/useless areas? Aircraft carriers aren't bristling with weaponry from every available surface yet they still cram people on board very densely. I don't think they'd leave large areas of the ship vacant in combat just purely for damage control purposes if for nothing else.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)12:58 No.13077473
    Pretty much this.
    Steel is cheap, it's usually the electronics which is most expensive. Reducing the ship mass might make it faster but I don't really think that is a priority for Imperial ship designers. Durability will probably be much more important. That extra hull space can be use as ablative armour, cargo area etc will would add much more to the flexibility to Imperial ships
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)16:05 No.13079345
    I'm going to bump this because I am also interested in starting BFG, although unlike OP with a Chaos fleet. Can anyone give me some advice on Chaos ships?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)18:22 No.13081047

    lol chaos
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK 12/08/10(Wed)18:24 No.13081067

    There is a chaos ship with S16 side batteries. Get that. Get plenty of that.

    >Sears Polocket
    >> British Dragon 12/08/10(Wed)18:32 No.13081155
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    Choas cruisers are awesome. Their escorts aren't so good (imo).

    A Styx class heavy cruiser should form the primary ordinance launching capability of your fleet. Not to mention that they look banging!

    A Desolation class can be used for ordinance in lower point games. Their 60cm lances are very nice too.

    Get Slaughter class cruisers. Firepower 14 to one side is not to be sneered at, and at only 165 points too.

    Carnage class cruisers are excellent. FP10 at 60cm or FP16 at 45 will actually make mincemeat out of any eldar that so much as breathe near them.
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)18:37 No.13081223
    Alright, thanks. Cruiser squadrons sound like a good option for Chaos?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)18:41 No.13081260

    Chaos players might find it interesting that the Styx cost is being dropped to 260 points.

    and check out
    >> British Dragon 12/08/10(Wed)18:45 No.13081304

    A superb option infact.

    Group all of your slaughters in one squadron, and your other ships in another (Styx, Desolaters if you have them, and Carnages) in another.

    The roving squadron of slaughters will be the main forward strike force, and when the firepower is combined against 1 or 2 targets, will easily be able to destroy a ship or 2 a turn
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)19:16 No.13081574
    Wow, I would love to have one of these as a centrepiece but they seem a little underwhelming. Can you recommend them to me or point out why I'm wrong?
    >> Anonymous 12/08/10(Wed)23:08 No.13084336
    OP here. Looks like we have like 12 people committed to starting BFG at my local GW store.

    The campaign will be combined BFG and 40k, fighting over a series of planets. For BFG, we'll be playing 1000 point games, and they haven't decided yet what the plan is for 40k (I'm guessing 1250, which means I'll have to pick up a lot of models). Looks like a lot of fun.

    In 1000 points I'll have:

    Fleet Admiral - 50
    Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser - 230
    Lunar-class Cruiser - 180
    Gothic-class Cruiser - 180
    Dauntless-class CL with torpedoes - 110
    Dauntless-class CL with torpedoes - 110
    Sword-class Frigate x4 - 140

    I was checking out some of the other guys' fleet lists tonight - the Tyranids look goddamn terrifying. One of the employees is doing a Chaos list with some pretty nasty-looking cruisers that's a good matchup for mine - he doesn't have my 24 torpedo tubes but he's got a ton of weapon batteries, and he's got a slight edge on attack craft. The Ork player has a kill kroozer, a terror ship, and the rest of his points are in escorts, including EIGHT ramships.

    The only fleets we don't have so far are Tau and Dark Eldar. Oh, and Necrons - which are banned from the campaign for being unbalanced. Woo.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)00:00 No.13084878

    The Styx can launch six attack craft squadrons per turn. That's a lot - my Exorcist can only manage four. Its lances and batteries also have tremendous range for a cruiser - double the Lunar's. It's also nearly as fast as an escort ship. It pays for this with fewer shields and hits and a higher points cost. It's not exactly a glass cannon, but it's got a lot of firepower and launches a lot of attack craft at the cost of being less resilient.
    >> Salamanders Fanbro !!C+aj9Hmz1qe 12/09/10(Thu)08:14 No.13088331
    >In 1000 points I'll have:

    Looks to me like you've got a bit more than that listed, chief.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)09:15 No.13088751

    If the changes go through, one possible 1000 point Chaos fleet could be:

    Chaos Warmaster (50 points)
    Desolator class Fast Battleship (300 points)
    Styx class Heavy Cruiser (260 points)
    Carnage class Cruiser (180 points)
    Carnage class Cruiser (180 points)
    Iconoclast class Destroyer (30 points)

    Everything goes abeam

    Otherwise one could try

    Chaos Warmaster (50 points)

    Hades class Heavy Cruiser (200 points)
    Devastation class Cruiser (190 points)
    Devastation class Cruiser (190 points)
    Murder class Cruiser (170 points)
    Murder class Cruiser (170 points)
    Iconoclast class Destroyer (30 points)

    Devastations go abeam, Murders and the Hades rush into the enemy. Eight launch bays and twelve 60 cm lances to one direction.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)09:44 No.13089007
    actually his list comes too exactly 1000 points, like he said.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)11:44 No.13089887
    I meant the flagships of the traitor legions, sorry. Should have been more clear.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)11:47 No.13089909
    That is no fun, you have to play Necrons in BFG at some point.

    Tyranids are fine, Orks are a little weak and as you would expect Chaos are an excellent match for Imperials and vice versa. Encourage people to take up the Tau or Eldar, though. They are both fun to play and play against and you'll get bored coming up against the same three fleet types all the time.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)11:54 No.13089956

    They're pretty good, actually. Wage of Sin has the firepower of a Desolator Battleship with 15 cm lower range, same speed and on top of that six launch bays - worth of a cruiser's full broadsides.

    Terminus Est has already been officially statted (link below) and the version is pretty much the same as it is here, the other Legion flagships are designed as roughly equivalent in power.

    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)11:58 No.13089986
    Which would you recommend? I think they just maybe require a bit too much multitasking or skill for me to use properly right now. They seem like complex ships, apart from the Khorne one.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)12:02 No.13090005
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    I'm now imagining an Aporkalypse-class battleship with a chainsword twice the rest of the ship's length affixed to it

    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)12:06 No.13090032

    They all have lots of special rules, but if you're not afraid of them or using reload ordnance orders a lot, I'd suggest City of Light for funsies. Wage of Sin is a fast battleship and a carrier at once and hence obviously really good.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)12:18 No.13090098
    I think I'll try out the Wage of Sin first then. Can I ask you one more thing? I'm looking for advice vis a vis daemonships.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)12:52 No.13090350
    This thread must stay alive.

    I realized that I could fit this into 1000 points exactly:

    Fleet Admiral 50
    Exorcist-class Grand Cruiser 230
    2 Lunar-class Cruisers 360
    2 Gothic-class Cruisers 360

    Or I could drop a Gothic and take six Cobra-class destroyers. I kind of like the idea of just taking five cruisers, though, just because then it'll only cost me $75 to buy 1000 points, and it'll be simple to manage on the table.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)13:25 No.13090574

    Hmm...the tactic here I guess would be to break their line up with long-range torpedo volleys, reload, move into 30cm range and hit them with one they can't dodge, and then go through their line so hopefully I can get both broadsides firing. Meanwhile the Exorcist stays out at 45cm range providing fighter cover and fire support. Yeah, I'm okay with it.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)13:48 No.13090727
    I know nothing of the rules of BFG, but as far as general strategy goes, that sounds like a good plan. Just remember, if you get between their ships to fire both broadsides, you expose yourself as well, so make the best of it and try to cripple any broadside weapons they have with your attack.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:10 No.13091308

    The clever thing about what I'm doing here is that my ships have a pretty heavy lance armament (12 per broadside), and lances don't care about the direction their targets are moving, they hit instantly. So by attempting to move abeam past the enemy, their gun batteries are less accurate while my lances are not. And if I get between two enemy ships, I can give each of them a broadside from each ship, while they can only return fire with one broadside apiece.

    Hopefully when I launch that spread of torpedoes, my opponent will go "OH FUCK TORPEDOES" and it'll mess up his strategy, giving me the initiative when we close.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:26 No.13091431
    Yes, but remember that your ships will still be between two enemy ships, so you could still suffer 2 enemy broadside attacks.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:28 No.13091445
    Eldar BFG player since release here.

    Your tears are delicious.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:31 No.13091464
    Bah, your kind is annoying but not rage/tear inducing. Play necrons and then we'll talk.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:36 No.13091492

    I tend not to do too badly against our resident Necron player. Just force him to slipt his fleet up and and rape him with mass bomber attacks.

    Although I generally stay the fuck away from his tombship though.

    As opposed to our Ork and Tyranid players who I dont even bother playing any more, poor guys, have yet to lose against them.

    Also fuck Nova Cannons and Blackstone Fortresses.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:39 No.13091514

    Yes, but if I have two ships and they have two ships, I take two of their broadsides and they take four of mine. And mine are not much weakened by moving abeam while typically theirs would be.

    If I can divide their ranks by firing torpedoes at them, and fly between them, I'll have quite an advantage.


    Yeah I'm not looking forward to fighting Eldar with my torpedoes and lance-heavy armament. My 12-lance broadside averages one hit against holofields, ugh.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:42 No.13091533

    If your opponent has only had a few games with Eldar then you should stomp all over him. If he's a veteran then yeah......you should probably prepare your anus.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:43 No.13091536
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    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:46 No.13091558
    Against Eldar it's fair to keep a necron fleet of only scythes+tombship at hand. A good tactic is just zooming to them, zapping their ships with holofield-negating lightning arcs and disengage to win via victory points.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:50 No.13091593
    Ahh, I see what you mean. I assumed you'd fit one ship between each of theirs.

    And don't torpedoes do better against holofields? Since they explode instead of being a thin beam like Lances and all that.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)15:50 No.13091594
    >Where there's a whip...
    >there's a way.
    Oh you fucking glorious bastard. Brb youtooban.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:05 No.13091701

    Holofields give you a 2+ save vs ordnance. And standard torpedoes hit on a 4+ anyway. So my 24 torpedo volley will mean two measly hits, assuming they don't just get dodged by the Eldar's sneaky speediness.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:17 No.13091770
    Best fleets for taking out Eldar:

    1. Necrons - fast enough to catch them, durable ships and their weapons will strip the eldar of their defences and hit into their tender nether regions
    2: Other Eldar, use weapon batteries to ignore holofields. Craftworld and Dark Eldar have a slight edge due to more durable ships
    3: Chaos, plenty of max range weapon batteries
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:31 No.13091862

    Funny how the guys Eldar were created to fight against are the best at killing them, and have rules that specifically counter Eldar rules.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:33 No.13091873
    i've always wanted to try Battlefleet Gothic, with a small Imperial fleet. i'd like to represent a Rogue trader fleet, with some lovely nova Canons. What kind of vessel do you advise ? Is it mandatory to use battleships, even in a 750 pts list ?
    i'd rather not have larger ships than a Battlecruiser...
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:38 No.13091915

    No, you aren't forced to take any battleships, grand cruisers or battlecruisers at any point level when playing Imperial Navy. The BFG devs have been putting together a proper Rogue Trader fleet as well, it will be submitted to GW for review in a few weeks and if passed added to their site.

    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:54 No.13092017
    Any tips for a new tau player?
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)16:59 No.13092057
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    Here's how you cheese out the Tau.

    If you play the Kor'vattra fleet which is the only one in GW's site at the moment, just take 1:1 ratio of Explorers and Heros, and fill the rest of your points with Orcas.

    Drown the enemy in Mantas and laugh.

    The above tactic is not the only way to play the Kor'vattra, just the easiest. Demiurg ships are fun to include and the Stronghold is really good.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)17:09 No.13092124
    That cutting beam looks like fun, and the FW models are the coolest things around. i guess blasting the other fleet with small spaceships that count as an entire bomber squadron holds true for the FW fleet? as i recall the ZOMG torpedos effect doesn't work to well because the torpedo ships need a big brother, so i'll try and keep the enemy in front & buried in flying titans
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)18:09 No.13092750
    im liking the new marine rules-str8 bombardment annons? ta very much

    im planning on running a very small scale campaign-players choose a 400point imp fleet each and have to patrol,with larger fleet actions made up of several players vs an npc fleet,

    bad guys are chaos with some orc raiders,

    finale will be a nid fleet attacking
    any ideas/suggestions/input?
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)19:14 No.13093460
    Necrons are the only suitable BBEG.

    How's the campaign working? If you can have reserves in the campaign fit in other ships more suited to fight Eldar, and cycle between them as appropriate. Beware your tactic when going up against ships, especially fast ships, with very powerful guns. Necrons and Chaos will activate their rape engines unless you cause enough damage in the initial rush.
    >> Shas'o R'myr !!J5+vjygjQuK 12/09/10(Thu)19:17 No.13093484

    Start with Protectors. They are your backbone. Then buy one Radar Ship that negates column movement. Then back them up with Castellans. Lots of Castellans.

    >scrutineer Epedgi
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)19:22 No.13093515
    These escorts are sexy as hell, although it's a shame they just labelled every unique Xenos weapon a lance. The Rogue Trader Cruiser and Light Cruiser make me sad.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)19:59 No.13093832
    theyve called em all lances because all they are are a fluffed version of a rolled up ship.

    i agree that the rules for rogue trader cruisers are poop- personally id use it as a counts as for a chaos murder or summat simular
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:02 No.13093872

    What should an Imperial player take when hunting Eldar? Lots of Sword frigates and try to flank them? They are fragile when they take hits but good lord are those holofields some powerful protection.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:13 No.13094000
    well you want weapon battaries since they ignore holofields.
    Personally my imperial fleet is grand cruiser heavy, long range themed so most of my eldar killing is done by my Vengeances and Emperor battleship. Though using a large number of swords to trap them sounds good. Try to manouver things so the eldar either no where to hide since they'll either be in escort range or cruiser range
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:25 No.13094126
    Don't batteries get shifted one column by holofields?
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:32 No.13094214
    oh you still have that i think. but they don't get their 2+ save so its still eldar rape.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:33 No.13094231
    but they hit on4s crit on4s an eldar dont get a 2+ inv save against them
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:54 No.13094477
    Eh, Rogue Trader ships should be modular.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)20:59 No.13094536
    What do you do about Spess Mehreen strike cruisers en masse? Lances will work out against them, right? And staying at range is probably a good idea. Weapons batteries should probably be reserved for knocking out Thunderhawks.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:14 No.13094707
    yeah, use your lances and often enough superior range too cut them up. also they have a small number of launch bays so its not too hard to maintain ordnance superiority.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:16 No.13094740
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    This thread still lives?

    I have a question TG!
    When I launch fighters/bombers, where do I place them relative to the ship?
    Does it matter if they came from the Port or Starboard launch bays?
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:18 No.13094755
    I am ashamed.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:20 No.13094778
    place em touching the base then move them off, doesnt have to be in a certain facing,

    also you can combine all ordnance into one wing- so if you could launch 2 from either side you could place a single wave of 4
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:35 No.13094921

    You can fit 6 strike cruisers into 1000 points. And then give one of them Terminators. That's 12 Thunderhawk squadrons up against my 4 fighter squadrons. Pretty terrifying.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:40 No.13094991
    that would rape, if get forgeworld ones it would also be rather cheap
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)21:57 No.13095182
    so what workshops this campaign happening in?
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:01 No.13095229
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:03 No.13095266
    oh you're asking about your fleet specifically.
    yeah your gonna have trouble against that many launch bays, but any fleet thats massively ordnance outnumbed is.

    Try keeping your ships in base contact to mass turrets so you get more shots against his waves, also remember he doesn't get his 4+ resilience save against this.

    Also focus your fire initially to cripple his ships and them move on, a crippled ship has its launch capacity halved.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:04 No.13095280
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    So effectively they all fire from whatever side I want. Neat.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:06 No.13095311
    Kroot would be nice if they weren't so damn slow.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:26 No.13095574

    It's at a mall near DC. Unfortunately I'm going to be in California for most of January so I'm going to miss the 'let's take a couple of weeks to assemble and paint our lovely new models' phase of things. I think I'll be able to catch up on that pretty quickly when I get back, though.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:32 No.13095662
    Oh batteries rape Eldar for sure, I just meant that the holofields do provide a small measure of protection.
    >> Crix !!nLvSV/0cRma 12/09/10(Thu)22:37 No.13095733
    why are ork roks so awesome
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:46 No.13095846
    Hell yes I'll jump on this I've been wanting to get into BFG for forever and needed a little advice.

    I have a 3000 point Tyranid army and wanted advice for the cheery old Tyrry fleet.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:47 No.13095868
    Is that an actual GW store? The one near me in Virginia closed a while ago, feels bad man. I searched for the closest and it was up near D.C., which is why I ask.

    >Closest is almost 3 hours away.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)22:53 No.13095951
    Ah man, BFG, good memories from when I had people who played that with me.

    Good old Necrons.
    >> Anonymous 12/09/10(Thu)23:07 No.13096144
    kit bash from 40k models, a box of termagants can easily be turned into 36 escort sized ships, more if you've got greenstuff. Warriors and Ravenors (3rd are the best ones IMO) are a good base for cruisers. I've seen a lot of people use fex's as a base for hiveships, though its not too hard to make one out of bits and green stuff.

    Also if you take any hive ships you want more than 1, and the cruisers aren't needed but aren't bad either.
    Also just note some game groups rule the extra upgrades as opponent permission only in one off games.
    >> Anonymous 12/10/10(Fri)00:36 No.13097043

    Ha, that might be my store, it's in Fairfax near GMU.

    I work at the Gamestop right around the corner - between hanging out on /tg/ all the time and seeing the GW store every day at work it forced 40K into my brain. Now I have a bunch of intricately painted little plastic men and soon I'll have spaceships and I don't even know how I got started on it.
    >> Anonymous 12/10/10(Fri)02:31 No.13097993
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    I thought Battlefleet Gothic was a dead game? What's all this about new .pdfs being released? Is it coming back?

    Tyranid ships for that Tyranid guy
    >> Anonymous 12/10/10(Fri)09:37 No.13100249
    so ive been reading the new rules for chaos, is it me or are the slanesh abilities a bit good?

    all ships within 15cm must take a ld or do nothing that turn but move for +10points

    dont forget mark of slaanesh gives all enemies with 15 -2 ld

    dont forget orcs and nids are limited to 15cm range for a great number of their weapons
    >> Anonymous 12/10/10(Fri)09:49 No.13100321

    That PDF is still on draft, and the devs have been informed (they respond to feedback, the first incarnation of the Inferno was an OP light carrier, look at it now). It and the Tzeentch ability will probably not make it to the final submission.
    >> Anonymous 12/10/10(Fri)10:00 No.13100385

    I've heard nasty things about the Eldar fleet.

    Is it so bad that Necrons are actually required to counter them?

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