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  • File : 1262392043.jpg-(173 KB, 810x778, jordan_02.jpg)
    173 KB Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:27 No.7380901  
    Okay a "big" complaint against a lot of sci-fi is the existence of FTL travel and communication etc.

    So, I thought, why not mix Space 1999 and some book I read, but don't remember the name of....

    Basically, someone (humans or whatever), realising their world was doomed (sun supernova, etc), built an Ark in orbit around their planet, got everyone aboard, and slowly floated out of their solar system towards "possibly inhabited planets". It's essentially a generation-ship, but it's not really going anywhere specific...

    It floats through space towards other planets, when it arrives, it offers that population a chance to join. If the planet is uninhabited, or the population is willing, people can get off the Ark (taking various technologies with them so they can live safely, or even build their own Ark).

    As the Ark travels it builds new sections, or even builds splinter-Arks in case some people want to go their own way (inter-Ark communication does work for a bit, but eventually they usually drift out of viable range). A small fleet of ships (planetary-landers, mining, combat-fighters, etc) are stored on the Ark(s).

    While the Arks generally start of as a designed shape, they usually end up as vast masses of metal haphazardly bolted together. As long as the thing moves and doesn't fall apart things are pretty much okay.

    Each Ark houses are self-sustained, with a variety of habitats.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:30 No.7380931
    That reminds me a lot of the little I've read about the Culture series. On that note, you might also enjoy the book Anathem, since it includes an almost identical premise.

    Also that's a pretty cool idea. Do you intend to do anything with it, besides brainstorming?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:32 No.7380955
    That sounds pretty cool, actually.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:33 No.7380965
    now, would you play it as a sci-fi Dorf Fort
    >> The Chairman 01/01/10(Fri)19:34 No.7380969
    I suggest "The Worldfleet" as the eventual name.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:34 No.7380977
    Read the Heinlein book "Orphans of the Stars"

    Pretty awesome premise, pretty awesome story, meh ending.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:35 No.7380985
    or Flotsam, but whatever
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:37 No.7381007
    if I choose drow as my race would my spaceship be hard to see?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:38 No.7381018
    harlequins moon?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:39 No.7381021
    So what, the campaign would take place on the Ark and deal with its day-to-day operation?

    Sounds pretty cool.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:40 No.7381033

    Actually now that I think about it, a few of Heinlein's books use this "generation ship" concept.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:41 No.7381044
    Well, if you have a space-ship, not an Ark, nobody cares, because nobody is outside the Ark (unless they're flying one of the supply runs), and your ship is just parked in one of the hanger-bays.

    If you mean a Drow Ark, nobody cares because there's very little chance you're going to bump into another Ark.

    You might be able to do a little smuggling between hanger-bays. And you can go and live in one of the low-light sections of the Ark.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:43 No.7381067
    How would it get from planet to planet with such a large size, yet no FTL drives?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:43 No.7381072

    Sounds a little bit like Battlestar Galactica, but i actually like it
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:44 No.7381076
    incredibly slowly
    the whole "generation ship" thing is a way around the FTL issue - make the ship itself where they live on the way there, training successive generations to fly it
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:44 No.7381086
    cryo stasis
    of course, when you leave a planet, you might as well hold a funeral for everyone you know.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:45 No.7381091

    Okay, that's what I figured. So I'm taking it this would take place a couple thousand or so years after the first Ark set out. Do they have artificial gravity, etc.?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:46 No.7381102
    artificial gravity can be accomplished by steadily increasing speed
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:46 No.7381107

    Only on a rocket, which I take it this Ark is not going to be.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:47 No.7381117

    that is an awesome idea and you should feel awesome

    but ya, a drifter colony - they had those things in that disney movie where earth got blown up and the good guys had to go on a quest to make a new earth... Titan AE.

    nice concept imo - mix in some homeworld "we can build, research, mine, anything" and just slap on new sections of ship for expansions... makes sense to me.

    asteroids could easily be mined (if you have the initial tech for it) making iron and whatnot readily avaliable, alternatly just handwave some high-energy chemistry or some shit, saying that you can make asteroids into useful materials. whatever - it sounds cool.

    and communication, use the Mass Effect method.

    laser-buoys. basically as you travel along, you leave behind buoys in space that can daisy chain messsages along by blinking lasers at each other (think morse code across the prairie )

    if you dont have FTL travel, then those data links could easily keep splinter-arc fleets and colonized planets in contact with the main colony fleet.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:47 No.7381124
    There's nothing between the stars though, so what you have most of the time is the Ark slowly falling apart as stuff gets old, until they manage to float to the next star system and process some resources to fix crap that's been broken.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:48 No.7381132

    Cryogenics is a flawed concept to begin with. There's just no way to eliminate freezer burn.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:48 No.7381134
    Gravity is a force of acceleration, which can be done with any form of thrust. Of course, accelerating indefinitely for the sake of artificial gravity is stupid.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:48 No.7381143

    Constant acceleration?

    You lose it temporarily when you flip to decelerate, gotta make sure a generation ship can handle it.

    Might be easier to just use a rotating cylinder of some sort.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:49 No.7381148
    Okay, the book I read was basically fucking depressing.

    Basically, a big "rock" generation ship comes flying past Earth, and a bunch of people get on board.

    Nobody on the ship can "drive" it, they're just riding it on the course it's already on.

    The ship itself is literally on a course "outward" so eventually it'll leave the universe all together.

    Even worse, it turns out that this "ship" isn't so much a ship, but a prison. At the center of the ship is an impenetrable barrier of metal... until they manage to cut a whole through it. Imprisoned is a bunch of super-evil mind-controlling robots from the beginning of time, put their because the super-beings from the beginning of creation couldn't destroy them...

    On top of that, everyone else on this Ship has developed transhumanist stuff, like mind-uploads, which they store in their super-cereamic brains... so they can never die...

    So these (ex)imprisoned evil-robot can basically torture them forever as they fly out into the nothingness (so you can escape the ship onto a passing planet).

    The authot wrote a similar book (including undying humans with ceramic-computer brains etc), but instead of being infinitely fucked in space, it was infinitely fucked via a war on Parallel Earths (like Sliders, but if every reality was filled with WAR... bit like 40k)
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:49 No.7381150
    >incredibly slowly

    Give us some idea here, current space probes will drift to the stars eventually, but will take millions of years to do so.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:49 No.7381151

    No, I know, but that only works on rockets, where your feet are towards the engines. Otherwise the walls are going to be down. My money is on gentrification force, which would allow for sections of the ship to go without gravity and be cool.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:51 No.7381177

    jesus christ, how did my spell check get gentrification out of centrifugal
    >> The Chairman 01/01/10(Fri)19:51 No.7381178
    It wasn't a Disney movie.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:53 No.7381189

    The ship could use any matter of propulsion, but like I've said in other threads, the ORION system is pretty much the coolest and best. Attach a bunch of shock absorbers and lead plates to the back of your ship and start detonating nuclear bombs behind it to push yourself along.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:53 No.7381190
    well, old people do move slower
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:53 No.7381194
    >> The Chairman 01/01/10(Fri)19:53 No.7381199
    That was definitely Marrow, but I have no idea why you thought it was depressing.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:54 No.7381205

    my bad - and true, disney wouldn't be able to make something that good. hehe :p

    but that movie had these things called Drifter Colonies - just space stations made out of shit cobbled together, mostly spaceshipts that had been stripped down to the hull. drifting in space, going nowhere...
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:55 No.7381211

    This is funny, because I'm interning for a fairly popular and well known video gaming company, and the currenct large budget project we're working on is a homeworld-esque-cross-Nexus space RTS that uses almost this exact same concept, except two major "splinter arks" have a long standing blood-feud.
    >> The Chairman 01/01/10(Fri)19:56 No.7381224
    Titan AE was the bomb, mostly for giving us a race of energy beings that weren't benevolent/uncaring deities.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:57 No.7381241
    I think the rotating habitats would work. Varying speeds for different species. Water filled, etc, for the different species.Bulk heads between sections, to contain poisonous gases etc.

    Engine sections, etc would just be Zero-G as nobody needed to visit them often. People with Zero-G equipment, robots, or remote-drones would be used if repair/maintenance was needed.
    >> Praetor 01/01/10(Fri)19:58 No.7381253
    Why would acceleration through rocket propulsion be the only kind that generated a gravity simulacrum, (i.e. acceleration)?

    Interesting setting, and a lot of cool stuff can be made from a generation ship, but I feel the way you present it is a bit flawed in premise. How can it "not go anywhere specific"? It just floats around hoping that the next star system they encounter will have a habitable planet? They would send probes and listen on a million of frequencies. If you are committing yourself to a centuries long trip, you might as well spend a few decades sitting shoreside and picking the best destination.

    Also, if you find indigenous lifeforms, why would they be on a tech level comparable to humans, or cultures compatible with them? Chances are they would be either under- or overdeveloped in human terms.

    Some of these complaints are really nitpicking but you seem to have started this with hard sci-fi in mind, considering you shun FTL.

    Also the entire thing could only benefit from a set course. Let's say the ship is headed towards a specific star and moves in that direction. The reason doesn't need to be known to the crew (or, hell, the captain, any longer, either), but there should be one. At any rate, floating through space without purpose is not really logical without at least some underlying goal or at least motivation.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)19:59 No.7381260

    ok mister you are going to tell us EVERYTHING about that game of yours, including what company is making it.... right now, so help me doomrider!


    true - plus it showed humans being owned, hard. no HUMANITY FUCK YA!, no, its was "humanity... going extinct... crap"
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:00 No.7381267

    Like I said earlier, your feet need to be pointing towards the engines for that to work.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:01 No.7381283
    Sounds a lot like the freeform world I ran on some forums about ten years back. Started off on an Ark, they landed on a world full of bizarre reality-altering shit going down, eventually some players figured out it was because of a rare mineral on the planet that altered the laws of physics around it.

    Someone got the mineral stuck in their arm, became the first mage ever, developed FTL travel (basically via the warp, complete with demons and shit. It was not as original as I thought it was back then) and shit got crazy.

    Then it segued into Space Western Steampunk, complete with Pirate Arks and STAR-TRAINS. Shit was pretty cash.

    One thing I did notice though is that being confined to a massive starship does make for a fun adventure or two, but eventually the players get bored and want to make planetfall. And not being able to leave the planet unless you want to die in space is a touch depressing.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:01 No.7381285

    And why must a rocket be the only form of propulsion where your feet can point toward the engines?
    >> The Chairman 01/01/10(Fri)20:02 No.7381294
    You apparently missed the ending where we devoured the energy race and used them as fuel to construct a new planet out of orbital debris.

    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:02 No.7381295
    rotating along the axis its travelling along would make more sense, depending on the size of the thing of course
    and i agree with what >>7381253 said regarding an ultimate destination, especially one the "crew" have forgotten
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:02 No.7381299
    Everybody's jumping on your ass because of your assumption that this is somehow intrinsically *wrong*, or even unusual in an environment that has an arbitrary frame of reference.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:03 No.7381301

    well they could simply be on course to, say, a star system that'll be some 80 years away... or something.

    going from star system to star system to find somewhere to settle down and colonize.

    if you take the Titan AE setting, then they didn't exactly have that much time to sit down and look for suitable planets to settle before they had to leave
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:04 No.7381316
    yea Marrow,

    Same thing I had with Robin Hobb's Assassin's trilogy...

    basically a complete loss of humanity, removal of choice, basically "you're fucked, everyone you know is fucked, everybody's fucked, and there's no way out of being so fucked, forever"
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:04 No.7381323

    Can't. NDA. I can only tell you that I'm in Canada, and we're planning to unveil it at E3 2011.

    One of the lead designers also worked on Star Wars: Empires at War. He's a pretty cool guy, and talking to him about the game is always a pleasure.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:05 No.7381337

    Well, I would consider anything built like that a rocket.
    >> The Chairman 01/01/10(Fri)20:06 No.7381349
    I still don't think we're reading the same book. The book I read had a very upbeat, optimistic ending.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:08 No.7381374

    A rocket is a specific type of propulsion.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:09 No.7381384
    Well, you need to learn what the word 'rocket' means, then.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:09 No.7381386
    not even that bit about flying out into nothing?
    >> Praetor 01/01/10(Fri)20:10 No.7381391
    Yeah, better go with another form of achieving artificial gravity. Centrifuges work really well for that, as already stated.

    A generation ship would probably utilize extremely small acceleration/decceleration anyway. A steady 0.1 m/s/s will get you to 4%c in 100 years, which is nothing to scoff at considering the time ranges you propose.

    Really it all depends on your ship. If it is predefined with a central axis, then modules can be added all around it and it can grow in axis length once its capacity is exceeded.

    In fact, you can account for arcship splintering this way. Once the axis becomes too large for the arcship for what ever reason, they just split off a part of the axis with its attached module, and distribute the former ship's propulsion onto both of them, each heading their own way.

    This way you can have organically growing generation ships spreading across the galaxy and splintering all around.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:10 No.7381393

    Okay, I'm talking about long, conical spaceship designs that are often attributed to rocket engines. Does that help?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:10 No.7381401
    Because you are a Jew.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:11 No.7381409
    It's sort of like the Festival, what with showing up without warning and destabilizing everything. Not as cool as the Festival, but still.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:12 No.7381411
    Jeez why don't you guys just say what the title of the book is.
    >> Marauder Månsson !!z2RzcF4nnfb 01/01/10(Fri)20:19 No.7381484
    I suddenly am reminded by this thread of an old Dreamcatcher game called Harbinger, a scifi diablo 1 clone that kicked so much ass. I only ever played the demo, it was never released here.

    Basically there is a gargantuan slaveship that a species of goo creatures called Vantir built and pilot around picking up slaves here and there. At least I think it was them. Over time the place has gone to hell however with inmates running amok, races they couldn't control (like a race of evil bugs duh), and sections falling into forget. Shit was so awesome.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:25 No.7381543
    >How can it "not go anywhere specific"? It just floats around hoping that the next star system they encounter will have a habitable planet? They would send probes and listen on a million of frequencies.
    It goes "towards" something (as you said, things that seem to be signal-sources etc), but there is no "official final destination" because any planet the ship stops at will eventually be just as fucked as the planet they started at (sun will supernova, or "go out", etc), and some of them like living on the Ark (like the family has for X generations)... The Ark itself is varied enough that you can travel to a different part and it'd almost be like a different country on Earth.

    >Also, if you find indigenous lifeforms, why would they be on a tech level comparable to humans, or cultures compatible with them?
    If they're less developed, no communication if made (no settlers are allowed, though so people "escape" down to unauthorised planets), some civilisations might attack with their own near-orbit space-ships, so sometimes they do have to protect against a space-fight (some Arks are destroyed that way), though most Arks try to steer clear of that sort of thing.

    >Also the entire thing could only benefit from a set course.
    It's basically a Planet in ship-form... planets don't need to go anywhere for planets to be fun to live on. Of course they might just plot a nice spiral shape to the centre of the universe, or along a "shortest path" to the nearest signal-source.

    Splinter-Arks might choose their own course (a "void cult" might decide to found some "Utopia-Ark" and float away to commune with nothingness).

    Generally, Arks do share their "course plans" in case there's a chance to fly back at a later date and meet up, but often the whole thing is unfeasible..
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:25 No.7381545
    So, a hulking Arkship constructed out of a thousand inhterconnected vessels lazily drifts through space as the population panics because they're running out of parts to repair the ship, and their only options left are to start scraping sections necessary to the survival of other species.
    >> Praetor 01/01/10(Fri)20:34 No.7381637
    OK, I'll admit you have your bases thoroughly covered. Proceed.

    I might nitpick a bit that a mobile Ark is inferior and possibly more prone to disasters than living on planets but I guess that can be easily explained by the fluff.

    Also, if I were to run a campaign in this setting, I would definitely go with >>7381545. Arkship running out of provisions for what ever reason juuust several decades before reaching a star system, everything going to hell, riots, wars between modules for spare parts, entire communities cannibalized for scrap parts (and, why not, organic matter), those bastards from the Trailing Modules forming an alliance to wipe out the Leading Modules, low power and flickering lights everywhere, peaceful tentaculate alien passengers picked up along the way enslaved and used under threat as terror weapons.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:41 No.7381693
         File1262396481.png-(93 KB, 400x300, OB000021.png)
    93 KB
    old TSR Metamorphosis Alpha Game
    Also lod (bad) series (so bad that Harlan Ellison had his name removed)

    The Starlost (you can find torrents of some episodes)
    from the wiki
    The Starlost was a Canadian-produced science fiction television series devised by writer Harlan Ellison and broadcast in 1973 on CTV in Canada and syndicated to local stations in the United States. The show's setting is a huge generational colony spacecraft called The Ark, which has gone off-course. Many of the descendants of the original crew and colonists are unaware, however, that they are aboard a ship. The series experienced a number of production difficulties, and Ellison ended up disowning it before the first episode even aired.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:43 No.7381715
         File1262396614.jpg-(273 KB, 1559x1134, STARLOST.jpg)
    273 KB
    - cont
    Faced with the destruction of Earth, humanity builds a multi-generational starship "8,000 miles [13,000 km] in diameter." The ship contains dozens of isolated, self-contained biospheres, each kilometers across and housing people of different cultures. Early in the voyage, however, disaster struck, and the command section was destroyed along with its crew.

    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:44 No.7381721
         File1262396658.jpg-(31 KB, 603x186, IF_Image_Starlost.jpg)
    31 KB
    and some stuff about generation ships

    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:49 No.7381759
    you guys should go play I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream. its abandonware and i believe there's a scummVM version. based on the book but the game's version seems more relevant to this thread.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:49 No.7381760
    So basically Humans become ID4 aliens without the super large heads and psychic powers?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:49 No.7381764
    there was also talk of reviving it


    When faced with the upcoming cataclysmic end of their world, the inhabitants of planet Earth build a giant space Ark, capable of preserving a sample of Earth’s population during their long journey towards a new home in another solar system. The Ark is subdivided into many pressure domes, each inhabited by a subset of Earth’s former population split along racial, geographical, political and religious lines.

    Ark vessel art by Scamp

    A hundred years into the trip, the Ark itself suffers from a major “incident”. The great ship is crippled, its technical crew either dead or incapacitated, and the domes are sealed tight, effectively isolating the entire population for many years.

    Four hundred years and many generations later, the inhabitants of the Ark have forgotten about the world they live in, and are unaware of the final death blow that awaits them.

    The Ark’s only hope of survival is a trio of young people from the community of Cypress Corners, a strict and highly religious farming community that has shun most forms of modern technology for generations. Can this unlikely group learn the truth about the world they live in and possibly save it before it’s too late?

    This sort of game could have a "dome of the Week" format along with a continuing drive to save the ship from various perils (both external and internal)
    provide a reason for varying character types to explore together - or a group of PCs (possibly a backup crew component woken from cold sleep) and 1 or 2 "barbs"
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:52 No.7381787
    This concept reminds me of The Raft, which reminds me of Snow Crash, which reminds me of cyberpunk. Cyberpunk spaceship aliens adventure fuck yeah.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:52 No.7381794
    >a strict and highly religious farming community that has shun most forms of modern technology for generations.

    that's a bit hypocritical for a bunch of people living in a giant fucking spaceship
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:54 No.7381815
    Sort of reusing one of my own ideas from another setting:

    "the mages" of the setting, are actually hackers. They hack into the local security grid to "cast" their effects. So they might not have fireballs and lightning, but they can repurpose some of the pest-control lasers, or anti-riot gas-dispensers to help in a fight.. or simply hack into the local surveillance and data storage like normal.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:55 No.7381822

    that is almost EXACTLY the plot of Orphans of the Stars.

    Mutiny destroys the command crew and the functioning of the ship is forgotten.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:56 No.7381827
    Not trying to start a shit storm but if Earth was about to blow and a certain few types of people were allowed onto this Ark I'd hope they didn't really give 2 shits about past religions or politics.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:56 No.7381830
    I think if you give the average Amish a choice of "have your culture and people die in a supernova - or be Amish - in space."
    I know what I would choose.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:59 No.7381850
    yea, that was part of the idea... there's always this separation between "planet bound" sci-fi, usually cyberpunk etc, and "spaceship" sci-fi, like star trek... why can't I be a drop out whacked out on some porn data-feed in Space, rather than in some bombed out detroit etc.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)20:59 No.7381851

    Like the technomages from babylon 5?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:00 No.7381862
    Metamorphosis Alpha

    The original edition of the game takes place on the generation spaceship Warden that has been struck by an unknown cataclysmic event that killed many of the colonists and crew. Thus, the role-players must survive their missions in this ship (which they believe to be a world) where they no longer understand the technology around them and they encounter numerous mutated creatures. In essence, Metamorphosis Alpha is a dungeon crawl in space.

    the wiki's see also

    * Gamma World
    * Non-Stop a novel by Brian Aldiss with a similar plot.
    * The Starlost a Canada/US TV series from 1973 has a similar premise.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:02 No.7381875
    well, technomages really internationalized it. I always thought they took a "lol nanomachines" view of it, rather than this idea, which would still be explicitly technological distinct from "magic".

    E.g. If you're not in an area with a security grid... you can't conjure any security-grid lasers. At best you've got a gun, and maybe a couple of nearby robots to trick-out.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:04 No.7381893

    Would they seriously consider themselves actually magic, or would just use terminology associated with it? I ask this because they seem to still know everything about their ship.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:09 No.7381937
    It's just like "Slow Train to Arcturus".
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:10 No.7381945
    no, they're hackers and they know they are, but they'd take the "role" which other games usually use "lol magic" or "lol psychics" take up.

    Because most of the environment is active technology (as opposed to journeying across e.g. a desert), they can pretty much perform their "combat hacking/magic" anywhere, but still remains "science" in explanation.
    >> RAWK LAWBSTAR 01/01/10(Fri)21:13 No.7381971
    suddenly, System Shock 3, now with generation ships!
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:15 No.7381994
    I for one welcome our cybernetic space Goddness
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:16 No.7382005
    As of SS2, she's meaty too.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:16 No.7382007
    So, how large of populations should these ships have? Thousands? Millions?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:17 No.7382020
    That there be almost a perfect description of Marrow.

    It's getting/got at least one sequel.

    I didn't really think it was so depressing.

    Sure the hundreds of thousands or millions of years that the cast had to live through may seem odd to us, but with no FTL that's about the only choice they have.

    The metal used in about all construction was called hyperfiber and was a composite that looked like metal and was strengthened by induced quantum fluctuations. Different grades of hyperfiber were used as necessary.

    Also the ship was called "The Ship" or "The Great Ship" and was about the size of ten to fifty earths. I don't think this was elaborated on, but the ship was big enough to have most of it's bulk dedicated to passengers and still had enough space to harbor in the center six Luna-sized hydrogen tanks and under those, the namesake of the book, an Earth-sized world called marrow.

    Most of the book takes place on Marrow as the first group to explore it get stranded on it's surface. The world is isolated in a central circular space by the quantum fluctuations that give hyperfibre it's strength.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:18 No.7382028
    this setting must be homebrewed immediately

    and shit needs to go wrong when the generation ship comes across the wreckage of the Von Braun floating in space

    depends on the size of the ship
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:23 No.7382081
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    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:26 No.7382103
    Just imagine what happens when an insane AI collides with a body full of hormones and feeling in a pocket universe of its own creation.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:28 No.7382115
    This would make a great setting for a cyberpunkish story. Decaying urban landscape completely covered in technology, densely packed population, and black market deals and shit hitting the fan almost every day? Yes, please.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:30 No.7382126
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    well SHODAN quite possibly lost the ability to make a pocket universe when the hacker from SS2 seperated her from the Von Braun

    but if /tg/ did slap together a System Shock Ark Ship, shit should definately go wrong when the ship finds the remains Rickenbacher (sp?) and the Von Braun drifting dead through space at which
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:32 No.7382145
    also psi, and to steal from Deus Ex, nano augmentations

    Bio modding would probably be viable too
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:32 No.7382146
    Yes, but mustn't the mind transfer have happened before the hacker did that? This is my thinking.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:33 No.7382155
    the reality fucking thing was part of the Von Braun's hyperspace drive though, not part of SHODAN
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:35 No.7382171
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    >>7382126 the ship finds the remains Rickenbacher (sp?) and the Von Braun drifting dead through space at which
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)21:39 No.7382196
    I'm not clear on what you're saying. Shodan used the drive to create a pocket universe, which the hacker spent a bit of time in before shooting her in the face. It's not unreasonable to assume that while it existed, the escape pod containing Rebecca was also inside, and Shodan used her real-world godlike powers to transfer her mind and make other changes to her new body before the pocket collapsed. The other possibility is that Shodan planned her escape all along and put nanites in stuff in Rebecca earlier, but since my first theory is cooler, why not go with that one?
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)23:04 No.7383507
    Given the nature of Arks, what would you name one?

    It doesn't seem appropriate to have a "USS Enterprise" style name
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)23:06 No.7383531
    good point, though there'd need to be a reason she'd wait the amount of it'd take for a ark ship to be built
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)23:11 No.7383593
    This thread deserves serious archiving. A ton of great ideas here.
    >> Anonymous 01/01/10(Fri)23:15 No.7383643
    Maybe it was built to escape from her, after half the earth was overrun with her horrible mutants and cyborgs. The other side of the planet, believing she could not be stopped, built an ark rather than face her might. Joke's on them though, since, leaving SHODAN processing component 6650 behind on Earth, she positioned herself on the ark, plotting to spread her magnificence to new worlds. She lay in wait as the ark accelerated to its cruising speed, infiltrating its systems and the very minds of its inhabitants.
    >> Writefaggotry Original Plague Doctor !!JajszWhpsyf 01/01/10(Fri)23:44 No.7384151
    We're drifting through space.
    We're only about 500 million left of us.
    We've been doing this for 120 years.
    We're stuck. We're floating freely in space. But we're stuck.
    We have no more food. We are short on water. Our children are starving.
    We have lost our destination. Two generations ago, someone had an eluvsive... illusive... idea of where we were going.
    We haven't touched The Helm for three generations. We're afraid.
    And we're stuck.
    If we don't find water and oxygen soon, all that will be left is a leviathan pile of decaying metal. The smell of death is already filling the air.
    We're afraid. We're floating caught in space. And we're afraid.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)00:23 No.7384714
    Bump for more. This idea is golden, let's not let it die.

    Plus according to the game design intern we only have until summer 2011 to run a campaign of it ourselves before we're considered to be ripping off pop culture.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)01:01 No.7385177
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)01:06 No.7385234
    Well, why don't you contribute? All I could do is babble about Shodan some more.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)01:15 No.7385348
    Maybe I did and I'm tapped for ideas.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)01:22 No.7385431
    Well, then. I suppose we could talk about what life on the ship is like.

    Are we in control of this vessel, or does it merely keep us around for its own purposes? When we arrive at a world and parachute down, is it to reprovision with the few things we cannot make or recycle, and to freely give them the knowledge we collect at each stopover?

    Or are we planting the flag and spreading a seed?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)01:44 No.7385750
    >eventually it'll leave the universe all together
    you fail basic cosmology forever
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)02:26 No.7386345
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    this reminds me so much of the Stargate Universe premise (or backstory.)
    - except with a bigger ship and the original crew.

    1. How much do the "crew" know?
    If it's
    >>We haven't touched The Helm for three generations
    >>We have lost our destination. Two generations ago, >>someone had an eluvsive... illusive... idea of where >>we were going.

    So it sounds like there is some idea. But is this oral/written down or in actual ships logs.
    (do you have training , "flight" simulators - what?)

    Has the crew splintered?
    some just trying to survive - some actually trying to solve the problem
    - and are they unified?
    Are there clans?
    - for example broken down by their original crews certifications
    The trbe of Enviro
    the Tribe of Drive?
    And are the skills (as mentioned above) taught openly or just to clan/tribe members?
    (just some thoughts.)
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)02:39 No.7386533
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    and, just because it looks different this "worldship" from Star Wars.
    Although design-wise we cannot also deny the Magog Ship-of-worlds from Andromeda.
    Several worlds linked together acting as a huge starship.
    Adventurers could travel across the spans to different worlds of the same ship.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)02:42 No.7386563
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    this ship reminds me of a stick of Italian bread.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)03:00 No.7386819
    For those really into this, there was an old thread on rpg.net covering this territory.


    Short version. Generation ship had an AI revolt and it is now hurtling through space with the various AIs ruling the ship as Greek God analogues. Had some intriguing ideas, but OP had a tendency to use the thread as a notebook and constantly recapitulate stuff.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)04:18 No.7387790
    Thanks for the link, that sounds pretty sweet.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)04:20 No.7387805
    >>Although design-wise we cannot also deny the Magog Ship-of-worlds from Andromeda.
    >>Several worlds linked together acting as a huge starship.

    This sounds fucking win, but what's propelling them, and why don't they freeze over when away from a star?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)04:26 No.7387876

    lemmie look....


    20 planets surrounding an artificial sun.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)04:29 No.7387906
    That solves the heat, but they still don't say how the thing MOVES.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)04:34 No.7387943

    That's the easy part. A large enough solar sail will cause a star system to basically do the astronomical equivalent of that old propel-a-sailboat-with-an-electric-fan trope. And that's just the first design that comes to mind.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)05:17 No.7388420
    I think Niven did this. The Puppeteers (a race of congenital cowards) decided to flee the galaxy and took their entire solar system with them. They did some macro-engineering and pinched off part of their sun with massive magnetic fields, leaving the full amount to go free in the direction they wanted to go.

    Result? Sun was a massive fusion torch dragging the rest of the system along.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)06:23 No.7389154
    Is this thread worth archiving?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)06:25 No.7389166
    Hey Praetor!
    This might be a cool addition to your game, no?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)06:32 No.7389243
    Sounds like they took a cue from Phantasy Star 3.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)06:38 No.7389303
    I think they beat them to the punch, actually.
    >> Praetor 01/02/10(Sat)07:06 No.7389496
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    Oh sweet, this thread is still around.

    We're discussing lost, decaying ark ships with AI cybergods? Because if so, pic fucking related - and a cookie to the first man to recognize the sauce.

    Well, the scale of the game precludes the monitoring of single ark ships all the way down to their conditions. But I could do something with this for the nomadic race I had in mind.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)07:30 No.7389671
    It's Druuna, isn't it? It's a pity they never showed the tentacle raep more explicitely.
    >> Praetor 01/02/10(Sat)07:44 No.7389783
    And a cookie for you, good man.

    I have good faith that fa/tg/uys can make it through all the unnecessary and frankly outrageously offensive sex and boobs valiantly and enjoy Druuna for the plot and setting.

    As I did.

    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)08:00 No.7389896
    ...and no one fucking mentions Sillage/Wake

    take out the hypergates and you have the same shit.
    A convoy of spaceships (getting more and more over time) that travel the universe for shits and giggles...
    >> Original Plague Doctor !!JajszWhpsyf 01/02/10(Sat)08:17 No.7390006
    Well, I was going for GRIMDARK because it often makes a pretty cool setting.
    I imagine the built-in navigation system, The Helm, is the only thing that knows where the Ark is going, because they forgot through two generations or so ago. Further more, it's been three generations since they entered a new destination, even if it's just a slight change of course, because they're afraid they're not sure what the main destination is. Now, nobody knows how to work the navigation system, or maybe they don't even where it is; or if it even still exists, if it ever did. It attains a kind of mythological status this way, making it more awesome for the PCs to find it by the end session (if that is their main goal of their adventure).
    Also, the different security systems and what now would probably be very different from part to part, as I imagine the entire Ark wasn't encoded by one single scriptkiddie; this could explain for why they don't just, say, turn off the deathly security lasers in this or that part of the Ark - where the Helm can eventually be found. Perhaps you have to go all Pink Panther/Tomb Raider on them and not turn them off; DEX-rolls anyone?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)08:18 No.7390012
    Anyone else make the Mortal Engines (Hungry cities) connection with this? might be the book OP couldn't remember.

    Giant cities, on wheels and tracks that eat other towns/cities/suburbs.... this time in SPAAAAACE.

    Sounds awesome.
    >> ★ Subprocessor DM 01/02/10(Sat)08:25 No.7390048
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    rolled 5, 4, 4 = 13

    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)08:51 No.7390269
    I quite like the idea of orbital drop troops who are sent down from The Ark to investigate possible habitable/resourceful planets.

    What sort of classes would we be playing in a campaign like this?
    >> Original Plague Doctor !!JajszWhpsyf 01/02/10(Sat)10:37 No.7391306
    Merchants, Scouts (Rogue/Hunter amalgam), Guardsmen (Warrior-types), Tech Wizards/Priests (Hackers/essentially "Mages") and the like, I'd say...?
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)11:55 No.7391975
    >Tech Wizards/Priests (Hackers/essentially "Mages")
    Somewhat problematic, since they'd be near useless in non-urban/tech environments.

    Better to take a proper engineer along with you (i.e. someone who can build technology, rather than just hijack it.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)12:00 No.7392020
    leave it, as in, every single other thing in existence is "behind" you, and you're still flying away
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)12:05 No.7392076

    Just because they're good with computers doesn't mean they can't fight. I'd imagine all characters in a setting like this would have at least some aptitude for electronics.

    Anyways, I doubt they would have a "helm" on the ship. More likely than that they have a single core of computers somewhere in the original part of the ship that controls just about everything, one way or another. When new sections get grafted on this core would assume some level control over the ship. Hell, it could even have a bunch of AIs inhabiting it.

    It'd also be pretty unlikely that they'd forget how to control the vessel. Their problems could simply arrive from internal conflict and lack of resources.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)12:21 No.7392242
    yea, but if you're already sending down an actual "warrior" type person, a hacker's ability to fight is a bit irrelevant...and the lack of anything to use their "specialist" skills on means they've got very little use.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)14:40 No.7393618
    helm/ bridge/ main astrogating pretty much all of these (well along with main engineering) would be needed.
    That might mean that the characters need to either learn these skills or be able to get others with them.
    A backup crew in cold sleep that was not wakened by it's last "shift" could provide this. - or even could be the PC's (woken due to a tribal ceremony/ malfunction)
    They may be around but may have to get through "controlled territory" to these sections.
    I actually don't see why characters ever need to make planet-fall either.. I mean if the ship is HUGE and has biospheres it IS their world.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)14:42 No.7393628
    Sounds like the Quarrian fleet in Mass Effect.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)14:47 No.7393685

    They wouldn't have to make planet fall, and likely wouldn't. The OP's post really pushed the idea of a hard setting, which would result in travel times of hundreds, if not thousands of years.

    He's also indicated that the ship itself isn't in that bad of condition. They still function, they retain all of their knowledge about it, don't have a Foundation style "science is religion" mindset. So more likely than not the characters would be a gang, or individuals in service for a private organization, or race.

    The whole thing with the ship falling about I suggested last night was just to have an excuse for a conflict, not to be the central theme of the story. Generation ships with inhabitants ignorant of their circumstances have been done to death.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)14:57 No.7393794
    The sci-fi with Ark like ships is called Rama from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendezvous_with_Rama
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)15:09 No.7393916

    But somekind of a hibernation would work, needs just some genesplicing.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)17:30 No.7395704
    This is the point where I say
    and go on.
    I mean think of rows of sleeper tubes all with a blurred form inside the tube. or a corridor full of rows of strange half doors that roll out to show the sleepers....
    or a vast room, lights flickering or failed, derbies scattered on the floor full of row upon row of clear coffins or upright tubes all full of dead mummified bodies.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)18:04 No.7396270
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    ooops - forgot pic
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)18:06 No.7396297
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    and the "bad end" version (with liberties)
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)20:46 No.7398678
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    bampu for more "LostColony"
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)20:47 No.7398704
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    dome, da dome, dome.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)20:49 No.7398711
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    Don't leave me in space with your stupid plants.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)21:22 No.7399163
    basically, the core "technology" would be reliable and relatively durable. The Engines are going to keep pushing, the "backbone" of the ship's structure is going to hold.

    Current technology is documented 100 times over, and most complex machines include a manual. Maybe the ship's navigation even has a little pop-up sub-AI "So you want to drive the ship?"

    On top of that all the cultures offered a place are "capable" of joining the Ark, with a high chance of being able to document their own history, and keeping record of a thing's function.

    Culture also means you get diversity, so maybe some people do manage to get some cryostasis technology for their own species... maybe it doesn't work with other species, often making it a "lethal" technology. An occasional black-market death occurs because of species-specific technology kills someone who "procured" it thinking the law was just a barrier to internal life etc.

    You might have grudge-fights and bar brawls, and maybe some of the youths develop gang-culture (like gang-culture turns up in shopping malls). Maybe all the nerdy kids get together and sneak out onto the ship's hull unauthorised, or maybe there're family tours in a tourist-ship at the main docking-bay.

    Some species might prefer low-light, some might have a high level of "consumer tech" (robot-servants are a "must" in their "high society"). A bunch of humans might like living on minimum tech (as minimum as possible, within an environment of pure technology), so, turn the light-switches off when not in use, eat all your vat-meat, turn that terminal off at the end of the time-cycle .
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)21:27 No.7399224
    Anyone who wishes to build a splinter-Ark has to submit supporting documentation, explaining where they're going to requisition resources, which sections are going to be effected, expected population adjustments.

    Once the request is approved resources are used to build a branched section on an outer section. Engines are attached (still within the main Ark's control, and helping move the mass). Once a command hub has been constructed, everyone who's going aboard is moved aboard. Conditions are rechecked.Each cross-over section is disconnected until the splinter-Ark is riding along side, but completely separate. Everything is double-checked, and then the process is complete.
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)21:57 No.7399558
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    archived on suptg
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)23:28 No.7400753
    Neal Stephenson touched on this idea with his novel Anathem. Which also contains a majorly bad-ass line from fiction.

    "Our foe is an alien starship loaded with thousands of nuclear weapons. We have a protractor."
    >> Anonymous 01/02/10(Sat)23:30 No.7400777
    Wow, this thread has been going for over 24 hours.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)01:34 No.7402159
    these ships, partially fallen into savagery. I blame watching the Starlost.
    My Mom and Dad and the rest of the world hated it.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)05:04 No.7404680
    Like this thread, the OPs Ark hurtles on eternally.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)06:06 No.7405231
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    Well, you fa/tg/uy fucks... lets stat this shit

    Enough fluff, lets talk crunch. i want system ideas and GRIMDARK mechanics. i want a gang-rep system that offers rewards and shit without WoW-style coffee grind faggotry. mayhaps a melee focus, as projectile weapons might possess a sufficient velocity to puncture the hull or other vital componenents? that could lead to awesome knife fights with others in back alleys and service corridors, ankle deep in coolant or hydrallic fluid while the lights in the area are sputtering and dark, uncleaned and unmaintained for generations.

    the dorf gods of /tg/ demand crunch. lets get it done
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)06:54 No.7405585
    So I heard you like Perimeter?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)07:41 No.7405953
    There are over 9,000 tested, balanced and play-tested systems out there. Pick one. Anyone will do.

    Fuck crunch. Fluff rules.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:37 No.7406903

    Each culture usually brings its own sport, and many are similar to others... Football seems to be a common occurrence across many planets.

    Many of the larger Arks also feature Hull Races. This is basically a race of the Ark's pilots along the outer edge of the Ark's hull, until they return to the starting dock.

    Most Arks develop some form of zero-G sport. These games usually utilise a small volume in one of the storage spaces (safe from moving machinery). Because of the small volume needed, Splinter Arks often "adopt" the variant from their Parent Ark. As an Ark grows it usually expands, developing multiple zero-G "fields", and sports leagues.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:41 No.7406934

    You know, if this was set sufficiently far enough into the future the different races could just be descendants of past colonists, perhaps taken from worlds seeded by the Arks themselves. Aliens are okay, too, but the logic in me knows they're unlikely.
    >> northern /k/ommando 01/03/10(Sun)09:44 No.7406951
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    kadeshi was here. we dun like yer kind around `ere.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:47 No.7406968

    I like the idea of guns being uncommon, and it makes sense. Such an idyllic civilization would likely have no need for personal firearms, and would likely keep them highly regulated. At the same time, given the nature of the ships, catching all weapons coming aboard would likely be impossible. Black market arms smuggling would probably be pretty lucrative. Firearms would also work out in the ship since it's fairly large, and the hull is probably really thick.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:48 No.7406973
    Wait, what? Dude, we want to join the Garden.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:49 No.7406983
    Imagine a world where scifi authors are forced to make actually alien aliens, not just humans with alien features.
    >> northern /k/ommando 01/03/10(Sun)09:52 No.7406998
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    oh?. err hmm now im not sure what to do. no one has ever wanted to join before.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:53 No.7407004
    Fuckin cheap.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:54 No.7407006
    Why would they depend on the nonexistance of other humans in space?
    >> Thatassholewritefag !!bTfelQViuUO 01/03/10(Sun)09:54 No.7407007
    Orson Scott Card.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:56 No.7407012
    Hooray for generic space bugs and psychic pig-trees.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:57 No.7407018
    Okay, so, the story takes place on an Ark in deep space. In almost one hundred year its millennium long voyage will have ended, as the ship nears an unexplored star system. Unfortunately, their last stop was not as lucrative as they had hoped, and the ship is dangerously low on resources. Part of the population will have to be sacrificed in order for the voyage to continue.

    The ship's main AIs, however, can do nothing to directly solve this problem. Their ethics dictate that they cannot harm any of their charges through action. They can, however, solve this through inaction. And so, after hundreds of generations, social unrest sweeps through the ship, products of both administrative negligence and dwindling supplies.

    Crime would spread across the ship and various petty gangs and major factions emerge, each seeking to preserve its own lot on the ship. Some aren't content with just surviving, however, and aim to take control of the ship itself.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)09:58 No.7407028
    So Babylon 5 if it were a generation ship?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:05 No.7407064
    Blame crossover. lone adventurer making his way 'upwards' in a graveyard of a generation ship, where the AI has run amok in the absence of humans.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:07 No.7407081

    I was just thinking about how this is pretty Blamey. All it needs is confusing design and a few less GBEs. Although this setting probably has a more orderly design and actual inhabitants.
    >> Thatassholewritefag !!bTfelQViuUO 01/03/10(Sun)10:07 No.7407082
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    You want alien, there you go. And those generic bug aliens were fucking awesome thank you very much.

    Anything beyond that you have to talk to someone else.

    Personally I find such a request one that is ignorant of just how hard it is for a person to come up with something truly an honestly alien. and still make it understandable and believable for the sake of speculative fiction.

    This comes primarily from the fact you ahve to build a being straight from the basic foundations of what we know about biology and move up. I think the closest we've ever come would be from the movie "Alien" a creature with a completely different biology than anything considered but ultimately comes down to two very basic needs "To eat, and make babies".

    And now that we're finding more and more completely wacky shit on our own planet sometimes even in our own backyards how do you go about defining alien?

    A shrimp with a claw that shatters the sound barrier? Luminescent creatures that have never seen the sun and live in atmospheric pressures that would crush even our most hardened submarines? How about microorganisms that live in solid fucking rock and eat gold? These things exist, and thrive on our own planet.

    To truly meet the definition of alien you can only get so far before you go from science fiction to cosmic horror or outright silly.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:11 No.7407101
    it starts off orderly. but the AI is tasked with repairing the ship, and when it runs amok it builds some pretty strange things.

    There are inhabitants, too. They've lost the genetic info necessary to converse with the AI.

    You can run this as a one-shot. There are many generation ships, there's bound to be a few where the inhabitants die out.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:16 No.7407127

    The Megastructure in Blame is mostly uninhabited. IIRC there's only actually one permanent settlement in it, and that's at the very bottom. Everyone else are nomads or robots.
    >> Indonesian Gentleman 01/03/10(Sun)10:16 No.7407128
    fooken awesome. And said generation ship was plagued by various beasties, which decide to take the generation ship as their habitat/territory/whatever.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:19 No.7407141
    You could have one Ark, encounter a "ghost" Ark.The home Ark tries to initiate contact, then finds itself trying to defend against infection from a mad Ark AI.

    The players are tasked with getting aboard the other Ark, and either destroying its comms system, "fixing" the AI if it has some form of "sanity" circuit, or simply killing the AI. Afterwards, this Ghost Ark is considered for salvaging for resources to the home Ark.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:20 No.7407143
    Sounds a bit like the Quarian fleet.

    What does a Generation ship 'do' exactly once it reaches a suitable destination? Because no ship can stay working forever.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:20 No.7407144
    I think these ships should use ORION, since it gives a pretty neat prospect. That's basically where you drop nuclear bombs behind your butt and ride the explosions through space. The central powers of the Arks would probably need some sort of military/police force at their disposal to prevent people from accessing the nukes, but they would make wonderful plot devices. A stockpile of thousands of nuclear weapons? Yup.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:22 No.7407153

    That's really unlikely in Deep Space. It would probably only happen in a star system, but would work out since the Arks keep tabs on each other's locations and have a communications network that links them to any other Ark.


    Mine asteroids, make repairs, take on new passengers or let them off, trade technology perhaps, and set sail for another destination.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:28 No.7407180
    oh hi, ubisoft. That's the only well known canadian game company i know.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:29 No.7407187

    Oh my god, he said Canada? That just happens to be where Relic is based. I suddenly feel suspicious, because them making a new Homeworld game is too good to be true.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:30 No.7407193
    The "current" destination of most Arks is any planet which is generating "signs of intelligent life" (regular radio signals, etc).

    Once there an assessment is made of the native population, and if they're "adequate" communication is opened. Space aboard the Ark is offered.

    If people on the Ark have decided they'd like to get off, the planet's population is asked if this is okay before it's allowed (though some unauthorised settling does occur).

    If any planets are uninhabited (whether in passing, or one of the destination planets) settlement may occur.

    Generally, the Arks are not "just like new", but are under a constant state of sweeping repairs/maintenance. Energy production and manufacturing are very efficient, everything is recycled, etc. If needed some materials can be harvested from planets (not inhabited)
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:31 No.7407199

    Are you the original OP, by chance?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:37 No.7407218
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    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:39 No.7407232

    Can you go into detail more about the social workings of the ship? Or have you even planned it out?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)10:57 No.7407330
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    Generally there's a "ruling" council. Most Arks use proportional representation.

    The ones "in charge" are usually the ones who built that Ark in the first place, but newcomers can usually achieve some level of influence. Splinter Arks that stay with their Parent Ark usually defer to the Parent's council when it comes to course adjustments... but the main point of splinter-Arks is to go on your own course (so most don't just stay with their Parent).

    Some Arks develop Prison-sections. Simply placing a section generally disconnected from the rest of the Ark (it's a bit hard to mount an escape when reaching the rest of the Ark involves breaking through a well-guarded Airlock, or 100 meters of space-vacuum).

    The whole thing resembles a large city (though "farming/food product/industry" exists within the city limits). There are residential districts (usually with induced-gravity), industrial districts (a mix of gravity and zero-G because of the machinery/people mix), the docking bays (some are Industrial for mining/transport ships, others are friendly "civilian" for welcoming boarders/departing settlers), "Farmland" (plant/animal food production... but not food-vats) mixes with "relaxation" (parkland, "wildlife reserves", star-gazing windows). Larger Arks feature multiple sections for each thing intermixed (not mile after mile of factory space, then mile after mile of farmland, etc)

    The main governance houses itself along the backbone structure, as transport means access is relatively fast (e.g. to deploy emergency services to various sections), though there're usually section-departments.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:08 No.7407423
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    A number of Ark Governments are often influenced by their Arks conditions.

    There've been a number of splinter-Arks that have "kings" or "glorious leaders" simply because a personality cult grew powerful enough in the main Ark that it's Splintering request got allowed.

    Arks where there're problems to do with resource-management do sometime bring in the Death-penalty (a dead body is recyclable, while a live person requires resources to support). Recycling the dead is common though, but the method varies (either by forced recycling, or more natural "field" burials).
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:10 No.7407443
    No AIs? :(
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:22 No.7407540
    Keep on going. I'm reading, and i bet I'm not the only one
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:24 No.7407561
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    most people don't enjoy being ruled by "number machines". AIs usually take up a support role, coordinating communication and transport, various other basic management things, but the final decisions like where to go etc are left up to people (people who can be voted out of power etc). Nobody wants to turn off the main ship AI because it decided babies aren't working hard enough when it would mean life-support gets cut-off as well.

    At least a number of cultures that have joined the Arks have had problems with "Rogue" AI. At the same time, a number of cultures have a very high integration with AIs (transhuman types). There have been a number of Arks that have turned themselves over completely to AI governance, but they usually find it difficult to recruit new members except from similar cultures.

    "AI sceptic" Arks often build back-up AI and other systems "in case" the Ark AI goes rogue. Some of the most extreme preventatives/"cures" involve jettisoning the AI's core processor out of the Ark itself (usually recoverable).
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:27 No.7407585

    Okay. You mentioned earlier (maybe) that hackers would fill the role of spell casters in this setting, and I figured it'd be pretty neat if AIs filled the role of deities by being the ones primarily responsible for the hacker's abilities, or at least augmenting them.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:46 No.7407723
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    At least some horror stories deal with "Rogue" Arks. Arks that have been taken by Rogue AIs to the point that even the people are directly controlled by the AI (*cough* Borg). These generally take up a role similar to haunted ghost ships of the sea. Some cultures and Arks have historical records of such Arks.

    Thankfully they usually don't become much of a threat. Most planets have more than enough resources to fight off these attacks. The "low" cultures (those not "adequate" to join most Arks) are usually protected by the Rogue AI's coding that applies the same rules all Arks use (not to take underdeveloped cultures), but some have been taken (but usually prove to be poor resources). When it comes to Ark-to-Ark encounters, most Arks can avoid the Rogues, or can outfight them (the mix of AI and person can create more scenarios than a single Rogue AI can accommodate).

    Boarding a Rogue Ark can be problematic however. Often they drastically remodel their interiors, cutting down on "walkspace" (unnecessary space) so that many boarding parties can find themselves very restricted in their options. Usually remote-drones are used instead, allowing access to smaller spaces, combined with electronic warfare from the main Ark.

    Full AIs do require a large amount of space, and Rogue Arks often have a large percentage of their mass given over to their AI because of this. Though what is data storage, and what is core processing can be questionable.

    Sustained Ark-to-Ark combat revolves heavily around disabling the opponent's engines, and then sending boarding parties. Both ship dogfighting, and the native population fighting boarders, usually means this type of combat is very rare, and the aggressor is usually flagged as dangerous for anyone who might approach them at a later date (they may make their appeals, in case they were flagged to defame their name etc).
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:53 No.7407785
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    So what kind of vehicles would we have inside these ships (flying a helicopter inside a spaceship would be awesome)? And, slightly related, what sorts of crime?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)11:57 No.7407833
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    Most AIs take very poorly to having their systems hijacked, but some of the dumber AIs can be coxed and distracted like hungry animals. You're not going to subvert the main Ark AI, but you might be able to nudge a maintenance AI into disabling a door mechanism, or running a test scenario with its lasers.

    Mostly Hackers impersonate the AIs/higher systems to activate systems they want.

    A bad hacker may find himself the subject of a police hunt if an "upset" AI spots their interference.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)12:19 No.7407999
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    Vehicles are mostly designed for whatever environment they're in, which often limits them to one section.

    Zero-G environments usually involve some controllable rocket propulsion. Moving machinery is a danger to people (even if most people are kept clear of Zero-G areas), so is kept to a minimum.

    Most sections feature a rail-based transport system, because a malfunction might cause a failure in the "gravity"-system and you don't want large vehicles free-floating all over the place. Free-roaming vehicles tend to be small (one or two people) to minimise the danger, and most are anchored when they're parked (anchoring spots are liberally distributed around the section).

    Inter-section transport usually requires a transfer to the backbone network (again, a rail-based system).

    However, a secondary transport network exists between the hull docking-bays using the ships.So sometimes it's simpler, and faster, to fly along the hull, rather than to take multiple transfers within the interior structure.

    Crime exists in various banned drugs, and technology. Often there's a brief spike in criminality when arriving at a planet. Dangerous goods are smuggled up from the planet, unauthorised people escape down to the planet (either against the planet's wishes, or to escape the Ark's own Law-system). A number of cultures harbour illicit practises (eating the other species is a common issue with newcomers). Some "normal" technologies can become addictive to other species (the law usually restricts the technology rather than bans it). General violence does occur, cults, illegal hull-racing, data theft, identity impersonation, AI subversion, various other nonsense.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:09 No.7408442

    I can't see a situation where the hull can be punctured by guns.
    We aren't talking some rinky dink merchant trader here - we are talking the fate of the world(s)
    But in saying that I'm sure there are shuttles or fighters stashed away "just in case" and you might be able to separate a biosphere (a la "Silent Running" ) with explosive bolts etc.. Onboard the support craft and in arms locker you might find low velocity projectile weapons with "mutiny pills" (shotgun fired slugs - thin metal casing with oil and pellets inside) , dart guns, razor pistols and perhaps short range sonic guns. not to mention gas guns, tasers and gas grenades.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:18 No.7408572
    one of the easiest ways to explain "strange lifeforms" is mutation.
    I mean here we have all these normal plants (and humans) in space for a couple of generations - who the fuck knows what will happen?
    Then of course there is stuff from outside...
    The ships anti meteorite system flickers and fils a bit and a chunk of rock is impacted on the hull. - but something is *growing* there.
    Or perhaps a ship (like Star Treks Botany bay ) hits.
    and some of the crew survive. - how?
    well they could be recued (or could have been resued - some time ago)
    or perhaps the Arcs AI gets confused and thinks it''s a damaged part of itself.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:23 No.7408616
    why even look to "splinter " Arcs for this. lost biospheres with already separate culture may do this onboard the main ship if isolated enough.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:25 No.7408634

    This also fulfills the Amish in space requirement.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:37 No.7408772
    Because the "king of the biosphere" is probably going to be laughed at by everyone else, because they're not the top authority. Death penalties are certainly not going to happen if not sanctioned by the top authority (at least not to visitors from other sections). Resources are spread Ark-wide, so unless the policy is Ark-wide, that's no excuse for killing death penalty. Death, from criminal gangs/unauthorised "leaders" etc, might happen... but that's functionally illegal, no matter how isolated (You could have a Wicker Man scenario going, without needing a splinter-Ark).

    Splinter-Arks mean these things are decreed by the top authority, and nobody can avoid it. Which is why some groups push for that level of "recognition". To obtain total power of authority over "their" group.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:46 No.7408902
    For alien species we should consider the planets they evolved on, and the roles in the ecosystem, while designing them. For instance, it will be likely that predators will developer intelligence, rather that grazers, as they will have to more actively think to pursue their prey. So, violence will probably be a universal aspect of any alien species.

    At the same time we can acknowledge that being able to manipulate tools is vital. The best way to do this is through hands, and with thumbs, so all of our aliens are likely to have hands of some sort, or at least graspers. Arms come in pretty handy for hands, so our aliens probably have arms. Of course, there could be a sapient race that never evolved using technology or tools, but they probably wouldn't be what our Ark wants on board.

    It's also nice to consider the environments of the planets. For instance, we could have a low gravity planet with a climate that makes it incredibly difficult for any plants to sprout, yet easy for them to grow once sprouted. So there would likely be herds of animals that would migrate between vegetated areas. Due to the low gravity, they would probably be excellent climbers (these plants might get pretty high), and would be ponderous movers, working with long, thin limbs.


    that's a pretty good page for this kind of thing.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:54 No.7408986
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    if society has broken down enough "King of the Biosphere" "Boss of Bosses" "Chief Administrator" they rule their tiny little worlds and know others are out there but perhaps they don't want to deal with "Outsiders" and no one can tell them differently.
    Perhaps things were different a long time ago but Agro Dome 13 (and perhaps two or there other domes under it's dominion ) is now it's own little world.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:56 No.7409001

    They probably wouldn't have domes for agriculture. It's much more efficient to make greenhouse style superstructures.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)13:59 No.7409032
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    I just remembered what "splinter Arcs" reminded me of...
    the Megaroad project.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:00 No.7409046
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    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:04 No.7409085

    They probably wouldn't have very long necks, if any necks at all. Their heads could possibly just be built into their torsos, since they don't really need to look around much. On the plains between forests there probably isn't any foliage, and with superflora being the only flora present, they might not even have eyes. They could use echolocation to see in the forests, since they would likely be incredibly dark. Actually, since they would eat from trees, they might have pretty long necks to make eating easier. Just a mouth on the end, though.

    They'd also be pretty fat. Stripping an area, they might spend weeks or months going without food, so they'd probably stock up as much as they could. Of course, after achieving sapience and joining our fleet, they'd probably cease with the excessive eating.

    So we would have a race of long necked, fleshy, saggy, eyeless quadrupeds (all four limbs might double as hands), almost like monkeys, that get around using powered exoskeletons in what we would consider normal gravity.

    Too bad I can't draw.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:06 No.7409103
    Even if they try and isolate themselves, they're going to run into problems isolating their infrastructure (like power-networks, environmental control maintenance routines, food production, etc). A lot of the expertise is going to be distributed across the whole Ark, or centralised in the backbone.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:08 No.7409120

    Well, if the Ark is really ramshackle, they could probably pull it off. For instance, self sufficient preexisting ships might simply be grafted onto it. It would probably be possible to take one over. Also, sections for different species would probably be localized into clusters.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:12 No.7409178
    Just got to thinking about the idea of a space ark: Where does all the mass for it come from? I mean, they're suppose to expand and in time resemble massive hulks, but where do they get all the material for the expansion? The ark would only gain mass when passing a planet, during which time they'd have to do a dash and grab operation on major resource sites (making it like the aliens from Independence Day). It's not like it can get resuplied while in deep space, unless they come across random astral bodies, which don't always contain anything of value, if you're even able to catch them, let alone harvest them.

    At sub-light speeds the time between good planets is insane, so the ark stays the same for eons. And the systems aboard need to be 100% recyclable, which is hard to do. We on Earth can always harvest more resources, etc. But imagine a system where nothing, absolutely NOTHING can go to waste, because that's less to go around. Everything balances on a razor's edge, which leads to a system of government that makes dystopian nightmare societies look like an episode of Hello Kitty, since everything not aimed at keeping everyone alive for the next few hundred thousand years, is a waste and waste is a crime against the ark. In fact, I'd imagine everyone being either in suspended animation, or some Matrix-like alternate state, where their bodies consume little, but people are capable of "living".

    I think the idea of some happy floating craftworld where people live like hippies while floating across the endless void of space in the hopes of coming across a good planet is more scifi than FTL travel and communication.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:17 No.7409216
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    perfect energy to mass conversion and cold fusion of course
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:17 No.7409226

    When they pick their destination they can figure out how far away it is. Once that done, they can figure out what their population growth might be (or they can just control it), figure out how many materials they might need, and simply begin strip mining asteroids in the system. This might not always work, though, which leads to situations like >>7381545
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:30 No.7409360
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    If you have a robust system that has the ability to self repare then the idea of isolation becomes possible though.
    If the decedents of colonists are used to the little robot dudes fixing problems then the recirculation of air and water is not a problem.

    The AI also has a fleet of droneships at it's disposal as well so it can send them out to "harvest" any local resources. Sort of like the mining ships in Homeworld and the nano machines in Andromeda.
    Of course the AI might have become a little *confused* with age and decide other space vessels, space stations, colonies (and their biomass/crew) and the like are also raw materials to be extracted and used and may have appropriately upgraded the systems on said drones for the *harvest*
    Hell to anyone else the ARC may be seen as a no-stop death machine like the old "Berserker" ships with the trap colonists as "goodlife"

    two examples here....



    - shit we ARE the Borg.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:37 No.7409445

    Actually, I think having the mining ships be manned would be cool. My favorite part of Homeworld were the manned resource collectors that would sit around on asteroids scooping things up. It would be such a mundane job.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:41 No.7409493

    But would they have magic green beams or would they have to latch on and dig into the damn rock? Maybe blow the damn thing up and drag chunks back to the ARC for processing?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:44 No.7409527

    Maybe not blow it up, but I could see them cutting chunks out of asteroids and pulling them back to the ship. Think of all the interceptors they could make!
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)14:44 No.7409532

    scattering from dune up in here
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)15:46 No.7410175
    I was thinking about this earlier: Would a Ark drifter colony like the ones described in this topic have any use for animals?

    As a source of food they are very unresourceful, as they consume much more food then they produce. They also require a lot more land than crops (unless they are battery farmed).

    The main reason for farming meat centuries ago was because meat could be preserved during the winter months, meaning that it would be possible to eat all-year round, even when there wasn't a sufficient source of flora around.

    In an artificial environment like the one on the Ark; any vegetable/fruit/etc. could be grown at any time. Pretty much rendering animals void as a source of food.

    Now, as pets or companions, I see no problem them existing. Though I would see them as some form as luxury with only the richest of people owning their own animal.

    They might be preserved for scientific purposes, though I could see this only happening in scientific laboratories with just the DNA of the creature being stored.

    Your thoughts, /tg/?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)16:01 No.7410356
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)16:01 No.7410357
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    >any vegetable/fruit/etc. could be grown at any time. Pretty much rendering animals void as a source of food.
    enjoy your weak blooded vegans
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)16:05 No.7410408
    theyd be healthier though, considering a wide enough variety of flora is produced. meat would just use up too many resources.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)16:16 No.7410559
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    Animals could live in biospheres (yes I know I love 'da domes" which would be entire ecosystems from lost earth.
    Some of these could have even been sealed specifically (with the exception of the robot helper drones- picture almost related)
    - or to allow a society (think upper Amazon rain forest)
    to preserve itself.

    I don't mind manned mining cutters. I'm just thinking further along when the crew has been (mostly) wiped out leaving the ship to fend for itself.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)18:47 No.7412435
    >what would you name the ark?

    The September Carrino
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)18:57 No.7412526
    Ion emitting engines something or another. They basically are incredibly slow, but since there is no friction in space, the engines thrust slowly builds on itself, reaching incredible speeds over a long time period, using much less fuel than a traditional chemical engine.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)19:51 No.7413144


    There's always this fun website of science. A ways down the page it has a list of engines, and their various science statistics. Roughly, they are in order of how good they are. Notice how far down the table ORION is.

    ORION is cool. Pretty much cooler than Ion, too.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)19:52 No.7413150
    holy shit this thread is still alive?
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)19:54 No.7413177

    It's going on 48 hours.
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)19:55 No.7413191
    Last time I meta-ed 4chan, I managed to get a thread going for a week. Some of you might remember "titanium".
    >> Anonymous 01/03/10(Sun)21:30 No.7414590
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