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  • File : 1268773886.jpg-(268 KB, 1024x692, 1343955.jpg)
    268 KB /tg/ talks planes VII Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:11 No.8618962  
    OP again.

    I have an hour, if there are questions about stuff. I also got the stats from the other players in the game, if people are interested.

    Haven't heard from Steve today, although he told us we'd probably be playing again on Wednesday, if we could all make it.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:13 No.8619004
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:14 No.8619032

    There's a bit of history behind this first post.

    op, post the other planes!
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:19 No.8619114
    Op again,
    Minspd: 5
    Maxspd: 27
    Power: HP
    Accel: +4 /+3
    Decel: -4
    Maneuver: H
    Gun: 6d6
    Ammo: 5
    Bomb Computer +2
    Damage: 8
    Chaff: 8
    Flare: 8
    ECM: -1
    Rdr: 3+L
    Size: +1
    Spot: +1
    Load: 31
    Built: 1984
    General Loads: 6xAA-10 4xAA-11
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:25 No.8619218
    Not until Wednesday...but...but...BUT...THATS TOMORROW!!! HOW WILL WE LAST THAT LONG?!?

    Nah s'cool OP. How do turns go? I believe you mentioned 2 movement turns.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:27 No.8619246
    OP Again
    Minspd: 4
    Maxspd: 25
    Power: MP
    Accel: +2 /+2
    Decel: -4
    Maneuver: M
    Gun: 7d6
    Ammo: 20
    Bomb Computer +6
    Damage: 9
    Chaff: 8
    Flare: 8
    ECM: -1
    Rdr: 6
    Size: +2
    Spot: +1
    Load: 39
    Built: 1971
    General Loads: None
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:27 No.8619258
    OP again
    Mirage F1E
    Minspd: 5
    Maxspd: 23
    Power: MP
    Accel: +2 /+2
    Decel: -4
    Maneuver: H
    Gun: 6d6
    Ammo: 7
    Bomb Computer +2
    Damage: 6
    Chaff: 8
    Flare: 8
    ECM: -
    Rdr: 5
    Size: 0
    Spot: 0
    Load: 18
    Built: 1974
    General Loads: 2xMagic
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:29 No.8619288
    How do pilot skills work? I'm assuming you have a character sheet for your pilot yet? Or is it just an aircraft stat sort of game?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:32 No.8619321
    YAY! Another one!
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:35 No.8619369
    Yes, there are two 'phases' in a turn.
    The phases were broken down into 4 stages.

    The first part you change your engine power, declare maneuvers, roll for initiative. You also do spotting, either radar or visual.
    Movement is pretty simple.
    Firing involves achieving missile locks, or bombing solutions. if you fire a missile, it goes 'in flight', and the next phase they hit potentially.

    The speed section is all about dealing with stalls and stall recovery if you stalled out. You can end up stalling if you pull a maneuver that reduces speed below minimum. Overspeed is also dealt with here.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:37 No.8619405
    Pilot skill played into it. We essentially have base stats as 'average' pilots, as well as traits that improve specific areas. I have a steady hand, making me get +1 on ground attack unguided weapons. The flanker pilot took eagle eyes, which gives him an improvement to visual spotting. I don't have the full list of traits, but I can probably get it.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:39 No.8619445
    2 identical phases in a turn...
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:39 No.8619448
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:40 No.8619463

    Awesome stuff OP. The skills section sounds alot like MAS so far...of course basics can look like a lot of things. You know we'd love to see as much as possible so just keep giving up whatever you can.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:40 No.8619470
    It sounds A LOT like Wild Blue. I know it's not, but still.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:41 No.8619478
    Steve said when you dump burners, you get an initial boost of speed, but it isn't sustained, and to model that, some aircraft can accel +3 first phase, only +2 second phase. Other engines take time to spool, so +1 first phase, +2~3 second phase.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:41 No.8619498
    MAS is nothing like that. It uses strategy, not action or detailed descriptons.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:41 No.8619499

    Thats cool. Accurate too in most cases.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:42 No.8619514

    No no i was talking about how the SKILLS sound similar...i know the games in general are miles apart.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:44 No.8619529
    I'm calling it now. Steve is either an ex-fighter jock, or an intel guy.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:46 No.8619565
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    Seems like this is the weakest fighter in the group.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:47 No.8619577

    Those are the most likely but he really could be many other things.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:47 No.8619580
    I call model builder.
    Maybe even battle diorama artist.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:48 No.8619606

    IRS agent.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:49 No.8619617

    Mirage should be a bit more handy than an F4 but it doesn't appear to be the case here. F4s got the power and weight but the Mirage should be able to out turn/maneuver it.

    And Mirage isn't in any way weak. Its just the least of the four current aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:51 No.8619642
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:51 No.8619655

    lol what makes you say that /tg?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:53 No.8619674
    OPs F4 is an upgrade though, it's the Rolls Royce of Phantoms.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:53 No.8619691
    Hey OP, how old is Steve would you guess?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:54 No.8619696
    No one writes stuff in books instead of computers these days.
    No one has that much love for minutea.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:54 No.8619709
    OP here, he's late thirties, early fourties I'd say.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:55 No.8619728
    Hmm that is true...i guess it works.

    That is true in most cases. The only people i see using books/pads are artys types or writers working in coffee shops.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:55 No.8619731
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:56 No.8619742
    Too young for Vietnam air operations.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:57 No.8619762
    That explains some of the pad writing. And helps a bit with the job search. Kinda obvious really with his interest and knowledge in aircraft back through the 60s
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:58 No.8619792
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)17:59 No.8619797
    Where abouts is this game taking place? Where in the world is OP in other words.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:01 No.8619848
    I think he said Canada at one point, because then I was even more pissed off that this is yet another awesome thing Canadians have that we don't.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:03 No.8619883
    Could be Desert storm or Bosnia
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:03 No.8619893
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:04 No.8619895

    Canada hmm? If this is true then there are lots of options still open. Steve still works i'm assuming.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:05 No.8619915
    Defense Analyst perhaps?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:08 No.8619983
    Writer/researcher for Janes?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:10 No.8620027
    What kinds of resources does your GM use OP? What kinds of things can you expect to be around the playing table or used as gaming material?

    You've already mentioned printed maps and Janes style references.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:16 No.8620131
    There is the distinct possibility that given his love for minutiae in a specific zone, Steve is just an immense dork in the best sense of the term.

    You know how model train enthusiasts can tell you the wheel diameter and running steam pressure of a locomotive from the 1820s, or tell you where an obscure type of cattle car was built?

    This could just be that, but you know, with jet fighters, so eleventybillion times more metal. His mission briefs are impressive no doubt, but they can easily be indicative of a guy who reads Janes and Clancy a lot as they are of a defense analyst.

    The idea that he might be a former pilot is a whole lot sexier I grant you, but as the joke goes "How do you know if there's a fighter pilot at your party? He'll tell you." So if he is ex-mil or has airtime, it was probably in a faculty rather less glorious than jet jockey.

    Or you know, it was, but it was so glorious that if he told his players about it /he'd have to kill them/.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:17 No.8620140

    Love the 'Varks man.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:17 No.8620147
    Be careful OP. 4chan has infered people's identities from the smallest details. And I can totally see /tg/ calling up Steve every hour of the night to ask for technical details and gamig advice...
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:18 No.8620162

    So Steve is the legendary Mobius 1.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:19 No.8620163

    logical conclusions...and lets hope its not one of the "tell and kill" sort cause it may prematurely end the game if they ask and he tells. ^_^
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:19 No.8620181
    Shouldn't you homosexuals discuss this amongst your fellow homosexuals on the board of /k/?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:20 No.8620198

    And his kid, Steve Jr, is the future Alpha 1.

    Scarily enough, that's what I named my Freespace pilot.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:23 No.8620250
    Wrong on 2 counts:

    1) 40k is a flaming rainbow parade compared to /k/'s don't ask don't tell.

    2) This thread is about an awesome air mercenary campaign we've been following for a few days now. The porn site you opened was in the other tab.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:23 No.8620253
    You named your freespace pilot Steve Jr.?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:25 No.8620291
    Surprisingly, no.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:26 No.8620314
    /tg/ and /k/ enjoy a fair bit of cross traffic, the less retarded /k/ommandos often popping in now and then in order to weather the stormfront as it were.

    As boards and general nature of interests we have quite a lot in common you know. Aspy like devotion to a narrow field of study etc. etc.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:27 No.8620335

    Talking about planes on k is a lost cause.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:28 No.8620357
    AWESOME, OP. THANKS. Stats are helpful.

    Can we get your pilot's full stats?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:30 No.8620386
    OP again
    He had a lot of, like you mentioned, Jane's books. Some had blue covers, some red, green, all really heavy like 500+ pages. They had really specific stufff in them like PSi ratings of hydraulic systems and stuff. The maps were topo maps with roads and vilalges marked off.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:31 No.8620414
    You don't wanna look at pilot maps.
    Few recognizable ground features and all radio beacons and traffic corridors.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:32 No.8620423
    Whenever I think of K

    I think of this:
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:33 No.8620434
    But where's Solo Wing Pixy?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:34 No.8620451
    Those maps sound like VFR maps.

    Of Africa.

    That has to be a defense map.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:34 No.8620457

    Yes. Obscure referrence to an in-joke about a you-had-to-be-there, which now came up in unlikely circumstances. Which way is /x/ again?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:36 No.8620482
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:37 No.8620501

    The twist of course being that he's actually a freelance analyst / planner, currently contracted by the French government along with some plausibly deniable pilots, gaming out his assignments. He has three more groups like you spread throughout the country. Your acquaintance isn't a coincidence, this has been planned waaay in advance just in case push came to shove.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:38 No.8620509
    I was F5'ing today to expect this thread, thanks for not disappointing.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:38 No.8620513
    >pilot F-22
    >kill everything
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:38 No.8620514
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:42 No.8620573
    Members of each of the other groups frequent boards like this, this is a very clever way to covertly tap brain trusts around the interbutts.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:44 No.8620598

    Is the F-22 going to get stat'd? That plane would be a game breaker. The only way to beat it is to outnumber it with F-15s 10 to 1 and cut off their refueling.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:45 No.8620613
    Writefaggotry Idea!
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:46 No.8620616
    Wow. That's a pretty big overestimation of the F-22s abilities.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:46 No.8620623
    Mobius 1 tier:
    Mobius 1

    True Ace tier:
    Cipher, Yellow 13, Solo Wing Pixy, Blaze, Ilya Pasternak, Rot 1, Scarface.

    Wingman tier:
    Nagase, PJ.

    Dead tier:
    Espada 1
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:46 No.8620627
    Or man up, and come at it from above in a nose cold SR-71 at RAMMING SPEED.

    I vote that final mission of campaign is merc squadron vs. a wing of Tie Fighters and a Veritech.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:47 No.8620632
    So far Steve has been very generous in the merc's choices of hogs. But I doubt they will ever see an F-22, except maybe as BBEG in 10 missions or so.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:47 No.8620635
    OP here, the F-22 is alrady in the game, no one could afford one. The flnaker guy is almost bankrupt as is.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:48 No.8620655
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:50 No.8620697
    Not if the combat effectiveness testing is even remotely accurate.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:51 No.8620705

    Tell that to military drills done with F-15s vs. F-22s. Outnumber 10 to 1, the F-15s piloted by the Indian army kept falling while they found it impossible to shoot down the F-22s. The Only reason they won is because there wasn't enough defense for the refueling stations so the F-15s zerg rushed them and won by attrition.

    Sadly the F-22 due to it's price is going bye bye to the F-35, a cheaper, although I think inferior aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:52 No.8620727

    Just wondering. Obviously no one can afford it or even GET it (No international sales of it to even our most trusted allies)
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:53 No.8620740

    Sorry, Indian Air Force. Have no idea why I went full retard there. Whoops.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:53 No.8620741
    It really isn't.

    The Air Force did a mock dogfight once using 5 F-15s vs 1 F-22, all being flown by F-22 test pilots (all former F-15 pilots), and the F-22 managed to gain taget lock on all of them without the F-15s even locating it.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:53 No.8620746
    Good thing, too.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:54 No.8620755
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    The Indian Army doesn't fly F-15s.

    They Fly Flankers. If you don't even know that, why am I going to believe your ten vs 1 stat on the F-22? Especially when I know the F-22 got 'shot down' by an F-18. Pic is proof, just to show you that I don't bullshit like you do.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:55 No.8620764
    The pilots were Indian, I think that might be part of your problem. Israelis in F-15s...

    And the F-22 and F-35 fill vastly different roles, one is not replacing the other. We stopped buying F-22s for the same reason one does not buy a large number of six foot long gold plated dildos. Once you buy 200 of them everyone is sufficiently satisfied that you can waste a lot of money and have the biggest, most pointless cock in the room.

    Honestly, it's amazing, but what is it for? In case we get in a shooting war with Russia? Don't make me laugh.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:55 No.8620766

    Because of how scary the thing is in real life or how game breaking it would be? Or how stupidly expensive it was to make even one?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:55 No.8620769

    That's an Ace Combat screenshot, faggot.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:55 No.8620775

    Military simulation bro. They didn't actually fly the planes.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:55 No.8620778
    Someone just got told.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:57 No.8620791
    >hurr one isolated case negates massive kill ratio and the usefulness of F-22
    >serbs shot down one F-117 which means stealth is worthless

    Oh, the internet.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:57 No.8620798
    Oh, a 'simulation'.

    Still waiting for any form of proof.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:57 No.8620802

    >post video game screen shot using video game as proof
    >comparing it to a joint military simulation with the best simulators in the world
    >calls it the Indian Army as well

    Yeah no.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:58 No.8620805
    How about you prove that the pic you're touting as "proof" is actually real and what you say it is?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:59 No.8620820
    At the latest Red Flag exercise, the F-22 could barely hold a 1.5:1 kill ration against the Indian Air Force SU-30MKI.

    And the Sukhois were not allowed to use AWAACS support.

    I consider that a pretty strong argument against the F-22.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:59 No.8620826

    There's a lot of this on /tg/ that's really undeserved. Enjoy your vacuum tubes, Ruskies.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)18:59 No.8620830

    I remember a curious tidbit about that - the F-22s are so thoroughly datalinked, there was so little actual voice traffic the pilots found it eerie, almost scary.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:01 No.8620850
    It's real.
    March 1, 2009: An interesting bit of intelligence misdirection played out at a recent public display of electronic warfare aircraft at Andrews Air Force base, outside of Washington DC. One of the items on display was an EA-18G electronic warfare aircraft, and under the cockpit, where there are normally little silhouettes of aircraft destroyed (silhouette of the aircraft downed) , or bombing missions flown (silhouette of a bomb), there was the silhouette of an American F-22. When pressed, navy personnel watching over the aircraft would only reveal that the EA-18G had "virtually" shot down an F-22 in a training exercise. Now, normally, this would be a big deal, because the F-22 is stealthy, highly maneuverable and the top fighter in the world. The EA-18G is based on the F-18G, a pretty potent aircraft, introduced a decade ago, and generally considered somewhat better than the F-15. But on paper, the F-22 should be able to make short work of an F-18E, or any F-15.

    What was implied by all this was that the EA-18G used some combination of the many electronic warfare devices it carries, to help get the drop on an F-22. Whether this is true, or not (and is just an intel misdirection scam to confuse potential enemies), it does get people wondering about what kind of electronic warfare gear would put an F-22 at a disadvantage in a fight. Anything is possible, given the large number of electronic warfare devices carried on an EA-18G, but what is definitely probable are efforts to keep potential enemies confused, or distracted, when it comes to exactly what an EA-18G can do, with or without an F-22 in the neighborhood.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:02 No.8620855
    Just to say how expensive an F-22 is compared to the F-35, (even if you argue they have different purposes)

    F-22: 142.6 million fly away costs
    F-35: 83 million fly away costs

    Every F-22 is worth a year's GDP for a random crappy island nations.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:03 No.8620872

    The Growler. Now there's a plane you don't hear a lot about.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:04 No.8620877
    Sukhoi SU-30MKI
    Unit cost US $40 million

    3 Flankers carrying double the Missile Payload of a raptor each, for less than the price of a single F-22.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:05 No.8620892
    And all more easily shot down than one, too.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:05 No.8620893
    Look, no one is saying that the F-22 is a bad plane, just a pointless one. It's like mounting a 16 inch gun on the aft deck of an aircraft carrier or making a diamond encrusted nuclear bomb. Everyone knows that the US has the biggest swinging air dick in the world, why keep popping multi million dollar enzyte like crazy?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:05 No.8620896

    Sounds about right. Given that they can't detect a Raptor, much less properly engage one, they should be quite a bit less expensive.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:05 No.8620897

    A good high altitude burst by a nuke would easily take them down.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:05 No.8620899
    Explain how an F-22 is going to get close enough to be a threat to a Sukhoi?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:06 No.8620909
    GG, wasting nukes on jet fighters.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:07 No.8620914
    I'm sorry /tg/, I only asked about F-22s and I started a trollfest/ragefest, I fear.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:07 No.8620922
    >my military can beat your military
    Yes, this is all very interesting.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:08 No.8620928
    The US overconfidence cheerleaders are out in force today.

    Do you guys know what you are talking about when it comes to the F-22?

    Can it outturn a Flanker? Who has the more powerful radar? How stealthy is an F-22 on a closing aspect with a radiating Sukhoi? What is the effective engagement range of the F-22s weapons? How many targets can it engage before it has to rearm?

    I know the answers, you do not.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:08 No.8620930

    Clearly, this is your problem.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:09 No.8620957
    I don't. Please enlighten me.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:10 No.8620963
    >>I know the answers, you do not.

    Sure brah, sure. You're privy to classified info, and nobody else in this thread is. Keep telling yourself that.

    A reminder to all that OPSEC still applies on 4chan.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:11 No.8620985

    Get your facts straight people, there has been NO excercise where Su-30MKI has come close to a Raptor's performance. Indian Air Force beat Eagles in Cope India 04 with a force 3 times larger than the USAF one, and in 2008 Red Flag the Suhois were dominated by the F-15's and 16's.

    Su-30 and variants are not better than any 4,5th generation western fighter, there is nothing to prove otherwise.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:11 No.8620986
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:13 No.8621001
    ITT /tg/ looks like /k/ on a bad day.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:13 No.8621003
    Oh god shitstorm

    Look I love the F-22, it's a beautiful plane and it probably handles and feels like orgasming, but it's really just not necessary. One of our Air Force's weaknesses is our love of expensive hi-tec planes. While the PAK-FA probably has 70% the capability of the F-22, when the F-22 is outnumbered 5 to 1 due to price, it gets kinda pointless.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:13 No.8621008

    Dear god, your right! Assuming the only weapon the US has in a theater is a F-22 and that it must engage in the worst possible conditions, a Sukhoi may have some advantage!

    You don't know shit about the real stealth abilities of a F-22, they are classified. You don't know details about the avionics package of a F-22, they are classified.

    And even then, you have to come up with a bullshit situation where your pet aircraft has to run -very- loud, giving itself away to all and sundry in hopes of detecting an F-22 before someone else knocks it out of the sky for screaming "I'm over here, kill me".
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:13 No.8621009
    Yes, if I wanted my words to be at their most efficient and basic, I could have just said that instead.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:15 No.8621034
    >>You don't know shit about the real stealth abilities of a F-22, they are classified. You don't know details about the avionics package of a F-22, they are classified.

    And even if he does, posting them on 4chan is a great way to get that clearance revoked (among other things).
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:16 No.8621043
    Ok, but only because I'm looking to explain this stuff.
    >Can it outturn a Flanker?
    No. The Flanker has multi axis thrust vectoring and an inherently more maneuverable airframe from which stable recovery is possible even at ridiculous AOA.
    >Who has the more powerful radar?
    The Russian radar, while slightly more primitive in terms or tracking abaility, does have one advantage. Raw power. A radiating Sukhoi is equivalent to early gen AWACs aircraft in power output.
    >How stealthy is an F-22 on a closing aspect with a radiating Sukhoi?
    Based on the latest Jane's estimate, in a closing engagement, the F-22 would be picked up at around 70~80 miles out, and that means trackable to the point of a lock. It's worse if the Sukhoi is higher signifcantly then the F-22, but better if the Raptor is ground hugging, since it is lost in backscatter.

    >What is the effective engagement range of the F-22s weapons?
    20 Miles, 45 for the D Variant on the 120. And this requires that the F-22 have a Radar lock, either from another aircraft, or Awacs. Otherwise, 10 miles with a sidewinder.

    >How many targets can it engage before it has to rearm?
    Assuming 2 missiles per target, 3 targets can be engaged.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:18 No.8621077
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:18 No.8621079
    >>latest Jane's estimate

    Aw, someone's trusting.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:19 No.8621083
    Yeah, and the F-22 can approach without using active sensors argument is the one that the Raptor fanboys keep spouting all the time, despite it being highly unrealistic in a high threat environment.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:19 No.8621089
    DO IT.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:19 No.8621091
    When it comes to Aviation, I think Jane's is a pretty solid bet.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:19 No.8621093
    Please do. They were an interesting wrinkle on an already awesome thread.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:20 No.8621101

    I'd have preferred it if that reporter dude in the side story didn't die, and instead went on to follow OP's mercenary band around Africa, publicizing their exploits. He'd hate them at first, but perhaps learn to see things from their perspective.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:21 No.8621114

    You know, other anons mentioned.. but pumping as much juice as an early AWACs out means that people aren't going to need a radar lock on you. They can just fire antiradation misses at you from the next time zone.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:21 No.8621127
    too much dick waving, not enough OP
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:23 No.8621147
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    HAARMS aren't capable against aircraft, and the AIM-120 doesnt have an anti-radiation mode.

    I'll just leave one last comment and then we can get back to the original subject. The US has one long range missile system, the AIM-120, good to 30 miles, the d variant 40 miles. It is an active-seeker radar missile, and that is all.

    Pic is the Russian inventory of BVR missiles in 2008.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:25 No.8621161

    Pak FA will be lucky to enter service in 2015, and with the pathetic rate they've been building Su-27 derivatives and other aircraft for themselves lately, it will be a long time before we see Raptors outnumbered by foreign 5th generation fighters.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:25 No.8621164
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:26 No.8621177

    Jean Claud had been living in the village of St. Claire for a few months, reporting on the increasingly unstable situation. He had heard word that the rebels were going to make a push, but hadn't expected them to move on this scale. As the mortars began to land he ran to the home of the family that had been hosting him in his time here. The roof was partially collapsed, Kanna, the father, was staring at a crater with parts of his wife in it. Jean Claud arrived in time to scoop up the family's two girls, 10 and 11, before they got a good view of the carnage.

    "Kanna, we need to go NOW!" nothing "Kanna, your Daughters!" his grasp of the local dialect was rusty, but it shook the large man loose of his grief. Jean Claud handed him the older of the two girls, careful to cover her eyes. Kanna spoke, "To the boats, quickly."
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:26 No.8621183
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:26 No.8621197
    They rushed from the still smoldering house. Jean Claud fumbled with his camera, taking shots as they ran. they hugged the alleys, waited for a few tense seconds when a technical swerved past, spraying machinegun fire into houses at random, and broke for it when it looked like the vehicle wasn't circling back.

    Jean Claud heard a distant thump and turned, a pillar of flame was rising from the hospital that Doctors Without Borders had set up no more than a year ago. He snapped a photo of the acrid column and kept running. They cut out the side of the village, he swore, /swore/ he say aircraft overhead. The rebels didn't have this kind of advantage that he knew of, what the hell was going on? There was a force pushing into the village from behind them, apparently attacking the rebels. He could have sworn he heard distinctly clipped mother French.

    They ran for the docks, anyone who had made it out of the village were now piling into the boats that had moments before disgorged a horde of killers into their homes. The boat was full to capacity, over flowing. He lost Kanna in the jumble. He clasped tighly to the man's daughter, Mary was her name, holding her close as the boat pulled away.

    He turned back to the village, still snapping photos, and then pulled his satellite phone from a bulky thigh pouch. The jets were still strafing, multiple blooms of fire erupted from the heart of the town, he thought he saw the church go up.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:27 No.8621208

    He got the phone on and running, nervous fingers misdialing the home office twice. He wasn't getting a connection, the flimsy sheet metal covering of the boat was messing up his antenna, he leaned out the side for a better connection.

    He got dial tone as a rocket scored a direct hit on the boat in front of him, turning it into a red hued fireball with a potpourri of limbs decorating the fringes, plopping into the water with sickening plumps.

    He heard the receiver on the other end pick up when a cannon round severed his arm at the shoulder. The phone and the arm dropped into the river, hand clutching the shorted electronics all the way to the bottom. Jean had enough time to turn and throw himself over Mary, to shield her eyes and block out the screams of explosive shells disintegrating everyone around her, before he bled out.

    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:28 No.8621220

    Please make the reporter not die and instead start following the merc band...
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:30 No.8621239
    Addendum please.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:30 No.8621240
    OP again, I'm trying to plan out my path. When I do upgrade, my aircraft, I'm thinking about going for an F-18 super hornet. It's multi-role, pretty capable, and doesn't seem too expensive. I'm probably about 4 or five missions away from that though.

    Since my pilot already has 'steady hand', and I got enough points to buy 'learn' a new trait, I was thinking about 'pinpoint bomber' as it also improves all my munitions rolls except missiles.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:31 No.8621245

    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:31 No.8621253
    The F-18 is definitely a solid aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:32 No.8621257
    That's a good start, but I think the story should be fleshed out more. As it is, it is too short. Tons of action happened, why not describe running gun battles in the street, with op's air support coming in at major points?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:32 No.8621271
    Actually, I think it would be funnier if it was dozens of reporters all over, most of them dead or maimed from OP's group coming to town.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:34 No.8621293
    You're multirole, not the main ground attack (that's the A-111). Shouldn't you diversify your skill set?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:35 No.8621314
    To their respective towns, that is.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:35 No.8621316


    Writer here. Yeah, I hope they get fed up and feed the Eiffel Tower a few cellulose cases.

    Failing that, they retire from the money they earned living out the rest of there lives in lavish beach homes in Fiji.

    That is until the day that OP is told by his butler that there's a young lady from the French Embassy here to see him. He's greeted by a distinctly African face he's never seen before, still blank when the pistol comes up and puts a subsonic .22 in each of his lungs. And she'll lean over him, as he aspirates blood on his last few breathes, and she'll whisper in accented German "So glad I could finally meet you Herr 'Baron'. Those were for Jean Claud, these are for Mary." And she'll dump the magazine into his gut, unscrew the silencer and throw the gun into the sea before walking away down the beach.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:35 No.8621318

    Given the visual range, this shot is actually often thought to be a case of a Navy pilot sweeping behind a Raptor AFTER an engagement has been called off. They're too close for exercise rules--risking a midair collision. The natural assumption is that a Navy pilot went for a dickstroking "kill shot" in violation of rules.

    Not that the F-22 hasn't been "shot down" in exercises. It will happen eventually:

    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:36 No.8621320

    Why would there be a shitload of reporters in a godforsaken African village?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:36 No.8621326
    I don't know, based on what I've read, op seems to be pretty decent at air combat already, and the Flanker has been holding it's own.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:37 No.8621337
    You're the Baron. Get something German-y, or something to do with your plane being red, or having three decks of wings, or being the leader.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:37 No.8621345
    I don't think this story needs funny. This is why I love merc stories - you have the awesome as well as the morally ambivalent in one place.

    > ENJOY
    I did! And how! You're doing good, just don't fall into the temptation to grimdark it all up (if you intend to continue, that is).
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:38 No.8621355
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:39 No.8621375
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:40 No.8621386
    I agree, no Grimdark. War is Hell is fine, but Grimdark sucks.

    Hell yes. OP, this is now your plane's paint scheme.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:41 No.8621394

    Make it RED.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:41 No.8621399

    Make the second daughter a school teacher and amateur photographer. She's been assisting the reporter, and so, when he gets killed, she's the one that notifies his employers and the French embassy. She decides to finish the reporter's story, and so begins to investigate the attack and the involved forces.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:41 No.8621404
    Still disappointed that OP didn't go for the EA-6B.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:42 No.8621420
    Red Phantoms would be British. The orange with the flag is way cooler.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:43 No.8621430
    For the last time, the EA-6B is not a ground attack craft.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:43 No.8621439
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:44 No.8621458

    He's a mercenary, not an air show performer. The plane should blend in with the clouds, not stand out like a goddamn sign with "SHOOT ME" on it.

    Have the plane painted in muted camo tones, and have a red marking with an iron cross in the center on the tail. Maybe a nose art depicting a triplane. Subtle stuff.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:48 No.8621503
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    OP again.
    F-18E Super Hornet
    Minspd: 5
    Maxspd: 23
    Power: HP
    Accel: +3 /+3
    Decel: -4
    Maneuver: H
    Gun: 7d6
    Ammo: 6
    Bomb Computer +6
    Damage: 8
    Chaff: 8
    Flare: 8
    ECM: -1
    Rdr: 3+L
    Size: 0
    Spot: +1
    Load: 27
    Built: 2001
    General Loads: 4x Aim9, 2xAim120
    >> Gaow? 03/16/10(Tue)19:49 No.8621526

    It isn't really that different from a A-6. You could mount ground attack missiles and rocket pods on it with some work. It carries specialized air to ground missiles to start with.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/16/10(Tue)19:50 No.8621530

    Fuck it this is irritating me I'll just use my trip. I like that idea though, I'll do some stuff when OP is doing his after action tomorrow. Don't have time to write now.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:50 No.8621537
    OP, would you be selling your F-4 Phantom, or keeping it as a backup plane (or for when it might fit the expected mission parameters better)?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:52 No.8621567
    DANG, OP, how much money has your group made? And what's your cut of it? That's a pretty nice upgrade there.

    What are the other party members looking at doing with their cash?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:57 No.8621631
    OP again,
    The mirage guy has a lot of cash, The Aardvark guy's doing allright. The Flanker guy is probably the worst off. I have the most money, since I haven't had huge repair bills, and on the last mission I got a lot of kill bonuses. The Phantom wasn't too expensive initially either.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:57 No.8621635

    Dat load.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:58 No.8621655
    The problem with the American 4.5 gen jets is that they don't believe in IRST. FLIR is nice for bomb runs, but it offers little situational awareness. And even if the Lightning II will supposedly carry a frequency hopping solid state radar that's hard to detect, the Hornet doesn't. This means you either broadcast your location, have AWACS service, or you're blind. With IRST systems like in the Luftwaffe Fulcrums you get a passive system that will still tell you a lot about your sky, including firing solutions.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)19:59 No.8621666
    Super Hornet scheduled for IRST refit in 2012.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:02 No.8621705

    It sounded like they have at least somewhat solid support from the FFL when it comes to stuff like that though, they had an AWACS last time relaying info (I think).
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:02 No.8621706
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:02 No.8621708
    Hoping OP answers the rest of the questions.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:02 No.8621711
    They had the option to pay for one to be there, but that was a 10mil charge, I think.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:03 No.8621718
    I don't think they get dick from the French. To me, it reads like the French pay the merc company, the merc company tells ops flight, this is your mission, this is your support, this is the support available if you pay for it. Go do the job and we might pay you.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:06 No.8621753
    Depends on what you understand under grimdark. Everyone remotely likeable dies, everyone else is a cackling bastard who will sell the protagonists out when given the slightest chance, there's not even the slightest glimmer of hope - that shit needs to stay in 40k. If it's grimdark for the sake of grimdark, that isn't the way to go.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:07 No.8621778
    OP again, I don't know what the others are planning.

    For myself, it will take longer to get the F-18 if I don't trade inthe phantom. I don't know if I should keep it.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:08 No.8621791

    Yeah thats a pretty big jump in spending there OP. Unless you're making a ton more than I think you are it'll be realistically out of your budget for a while. And you've already got a really good F4. Things a tank and is one of the best multi-role aircraft out there.

    Personally I dislike most "modern" aircraft. F15s, F16s, F18, F22s...etc. They're boring to me. Give me the 50s 60s and 70s and a touch of the 80s and i'm fine.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:08 No.8621793
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:11 No.8621831
    You know OP, you having this money means that you can replace someone's plane if they're shot down.

    And then they're in your debt until they pay it off. And if you wanted to pull a company coup, why, there's just the favor to call in on...
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:11 No.8621841
    I just thought up a nice little trap for fighters without AWACS. They still have their tower radar systems to pick up bogeys, but that won't catch NOE bandits.

    So, just have your air superiority hugging the ground, while 1 team member goes lagging back high and maybe even hot. The bastards will come rushing, expecting to find a bomber. But SURPRISE FOX 2s from below. If they get a call out they'd likely report AAM from the ground miles from where you are now.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:14 No.8621884

    I agree. For the amount that it would cost, it just seems that you aren't getting that much more out of the Super Hornet.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:18 No.8621941
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    Stick with the Phantom OP. If nothing else, I've added some great photos to my collection.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:22 No.8621989
    At least not until you have to hit tougher targets than 3rd rate Africans.
    >> 4.5 gen combat aircraft Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:24 No.8622024
    o Dassault Rafale ("F4 standard" with Thales RBE2 AESA in 2012)[5][6]
    o Mikoyan MiG-29K 'Fulcrum D' (With digital fly-by-wire, radar signature reduction measures and Zhuk-AE AESA upgrade in development)
    o Mikoyan MiG-31BM (With Zaslon-M PESA)
    o Sukhoi Su-32/34 'Fullback' (only PESA)
    o Sukhoi Su-35 'Flanker E' (only PESA)
    o Su-30MKI 'Flanker H' (AESA upgrade in 2012)
    o Saab 39 'Gripen' (With Finmeccanica-Selex radar)
    o Eurofighter Typhoon (with Captor-E)
    o McDonnell Douglas / Boeing F-15E Strike Eagle (CAS provides only partial fly-by-wire and AN/APG-82(V)1 upgrade in development)
    o Lockheed Martin F-16E/F Block 60
    o Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
    o HAL Tejas(IOC planned for 2010)[7]
    o Chengdu J-10B(maiden flight achieved in 2008)[1]
    o Shenyang J-11B/BS(maiden flight achieved in 2007)
    o KF-X(Introduction designated to be around 2020)
    o Mikoyan MiG-35 'Fulcrum F' (maiden flight achieved in 2007, includes (AESA))
    o McDonnell Douglas / Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle(maiden flight planned for 2010)
    o Sukhoi Su-47 'Firkin' (maiden flight achieved in 1997)
    o Mikoyan Project 1.44 'Flatpack' (maiden flight in 2000)
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:27 No.8622073
    How about a Gripen?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:32 No.8622132
    THE one big strategic advantage of the Super Hornet, or any aircraft of it's generation is the datalink. This will change the voice radio call that there are enemy units at such and such coordinates to a digitally transfered fire solution for the aircraft's weapon systems. Nice to have to link with AWACS, but a considerable improvement if several/all squad members have it.

    Also: so far OP's squad never had to push their aircraft, all enemies were far inferior. If there's ever a bunch of Flankers on the hunt, a Phantom will soon feel wieldy and slow.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:33 No.8622171
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    Someone say Gripen?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:43 No.8622322
    Stats for this OP? And price comparison to Super Hornet?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:47 No.8622365
    OP has been gone 40 minutes...
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:47 No.8622378
    He said he had an hour. It turned into 3.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)20:52 No.8622444
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    Found Ops airfield. Big runway, looks fine for fighters.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:00 No.8622549

    How do you know thats OPs field? Source please. I'm not doubting I just want to know.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:07 No.8622631
    It's FZIC, the airfield op has been flying from.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:09 No.8622656
    I'd never seen a name stated so I was just wondering. You just do a general search for the name and got that? Nice.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:13 No.8622732
    Is there any way you could get an F-15? I know they were originally designed as air superiority, but the F-15E is a pretty sweet strike fighter. I figure the F-15E is probably way out of OP's price range, but could you get one with some ground strike capability, minus all the strike eagle's expensive avionics and then slowly upgrade?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:22 No.8622912

    An early export variant is probably the cheapest way to get an F15 but thats still gonna be a bitch to purchase.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:22 No.8622915
    Why would he pick a Strike Eagle over a Super Hornet?

    The F-15E is a lone bomber/ECM tank on an air superiority airframe. The CFTs can't be dropped like normal tanks, so forget dogfighting. The avionics is all that makes this bird, so why would you buy one without? And why would you want an 'I'll do it by myself' specialist in a mixed squad to replace a multirole?

    It just makes no sense.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:25 No.8622965
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:38 No.8623173
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    I still would have gone for an A-4 even if the GM didn't think it was a good idea. Its got everything I like in an aircraft. Its not the fastest or the newest or the deadliest but it has its own charms.


    The link is an article that just makes me feel all warm and gushy inside when I think A-4.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:49 No.8623375
    Ive been searching for an answer online so I suppose Ill ask here:

    Is there a rule of thumb for how much a 600lb drop tank increases the range / endurance of a fighter?

    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)21:58 No.8623532
    Simple math:
    range / fuel capacity = gas mileage
    600lbs / fuel capacity = increase
    increase x gas mileage = your added range
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:00 No.8623567
    That's not accurate. 600lbs is a significant weight increase that will reduce the efficiency of the plane's travel. Working out the increased ranged will be a lot more complicated, and involves differentials and shit.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:03 No.8623624

    Im not looking for a very accurate answer, just some kind of a rule of thumb.

    I would do something like >>8623532 suggested, but most stats I am finding for aircraft have empty weight and weight with payload, but no number for the weight fueled without payload.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:11 No.8623768

    >extremely high angle deflection shot

    cool story bro
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:16 No.8623895
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    I really like the Super Hornet. It's already doing what the Lightning II is supposed to do. It's a fighter, bomber, tanker, and electronic warfare platform, replacing everything else the Navy used to have, oh yeah, and it's a carrier bird.

    So to keep with the multirole idea, this is the logical conclusion.

    And why not sacrifice the cannon for a Growler? If you need one you can still use a pod. and the ECM suite defeats pretty much any radar out there, jams enemy radio, and detects radar and missile trails reliably. The growler is still armed, normally with 2 AIM-120s and 2 HARMs, It has the usual 11 hardpoints, only 2 are taken up by ECM pods.

    Not only can the Super Hornet be configured to take any role in future missions, it caneven mix and match them according to what is expected. 2 ECM pods, 1 buddy fuel system with extra tank, 2 Sidewinders, 2 AMRAAMs, a HARM, and STILL room for 2 Mavericks...

    Plus all the latest Link 16 network, reduced frontal radar signature, IRST coming soon....

    Buy this jet!
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:17 No.8623917

    well, if you can afford it. But yeah.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:24 No.8624051
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:40 No.8624405
    Well, that's quite the sales pitch. I like!
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/16/10(Tue)22:44 No.8624494
    I dig. Am back now, will do some faggotry in a bit if anything comes to mind.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:46 No.8624540
    Doesn't the Growler need a crew of four?
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/16/10(Tue)22:52 No.8624633
    Yes, two of them are strapped to the ECM pods :P
    The /prowler/ is the four man.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:53 No.8624649
    Indeed. The WSO and ECM guy are strapped to the wings because it's such a tight fir.

    No, seriously. It's just 2.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)22:57 No.8624716
    And if you don't use the ECM 1 pilot can control all the weapon systems easily. Just like in the F/a-18E.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:00 No.8624763
    wtf is this shit
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:03 No.8624812
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:12 No.8624988
    It is FUCKING AWESOME, distilled for consumer use.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:34 No.8625411
    Archiving because nobody else has.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:38 No.8625490
    Post link pls
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:39 No.8625504
    I missed one of the plane threads?

    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:40 No.8625516
    Seriously? Just go to the fucking archive, it's at the bottom of the page. How is this hard?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:41 No.8625541
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:43 No.8625562
    Are you using a browser plugin? Because at the bottom of my page there's just the other chan boards.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:44 No.8625589
    OP Again
    BlackFlag Internal Document #100323

    Mission Briefing “Aluminium Crow”
    Deployment: Kitona
    Pancake: Kitona
    Alternate: Luanda (Angola)
    AAR: None
    AWACS: Unavailable (Currently supporting Jaeger Flight)
    CSAR: None

    Contract Employer: Liberian Government

    Objective: Redeploy to Kitona Airfield. Intercept Moroccan Falcon 50 and escort it to Kitona.

    Background: We're not entirely clear on this one. We received advance payment from an account we backtracked to the Liberian government. They're trying to cover this one up, our intelligence section is working to find out more, but as of now we only have the mission parameters. A member of the Moroccan government is onboard the Falcon 50. We've acquired their flight plan, and figure they will pass close to the DRC coast at roughly 0300 local. However flightplan database investigations also noted that a formation of six Mirage F1s will be flying a ferry mission to Namibia and will be in the operational area. If we receive any further intel, we will datalink it to you immediately. This mission is a short notice tasking, and you will be compensated accordingly.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:45 No.8625592
    I want to link you to the archive but I'm afraid that it'll get more dumb threads archived once you realize how it works.

    PROTIP: It's not the same site as 4chan.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:45 No.8625594
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:45 No.8625616
    Op again
    HUMINT: Formation of Mirage F1s will be in the target area, Flightplan says they are armed.
    ELINT: Radio intercepts and triangulation have identified that an Osprey-55 patrol boat is cruising within roughly 250 miles of the flightplan's proposed track.
    SATINT: None
    Air Assets: Falcon 50, 6xDassault Mirage F1
    Surface Assets: Osprey-55 Gunboat

    Threat Assessment: Medium. Based on flightplan distance, the Mirage's will most likely be equipped with drop tanks, limiting their payload and air to air effectiveness. The Moroccan Armed Forces are adequately trained, but are by no means top tier. While the Osprey patrol boat poses no direct threat, it does present a relay station should the Falcon 50 broadcast an emergency transmission.

    ROE: Visual Contact unless fired upon.

    Just got all this from Steve. This seems a little more complex than the prior missions.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:46 No.8625620
    Did you buy the F-18, OP?
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:48 No.8625654
    You are pretty smug for a dumbass.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:52 No.8625723
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:52 No.8625725
    And yet it's you who doesn't know how the archive works.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:53 No.8625750
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    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:54 No.8625760
    No AWACS option... ouch. Your AtA guys are going to have a ball though.

    Are you still in the F-4, or did you upgrade? This will matter.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:56 No.8625800
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/16/10(Tue)23:56 No.8625807
    Sounds complicated, but it's not.
    People call the mirages flying french shitboxes for a reason, you can handle those fucks.
    Get up under them, rip off as many sidewinders and nose gun bursts as you can, they just can't handle shit like that, you'll EASILY have them by surprise, if they're flying STUPIDLY low, even better, they'll have to either take a wide turn to either side OR try to loop around, stall out, and wreck into the ocean.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:58 No.8625828
    That says he's CONSIDERING IT.

    I'm asking for VERIFICATION.

    CLEARLY not the same.
    >> Anonymous 03/16/10(Tue)23:59 No.8625836
    It also says he can't afford it for another 4 or more missions.

    LRN 2 RED!
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:00 No.8625850
    The Mirage F1 is a surprisingly capable platform.
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/17/10(Wed)00:00 No.8625854
    Also, if you're in the phantom for this mission, load up a cannon-pod and as many AtA munitions as you can, sounds like you won't have anything on the ground that you won't be able to just pound with the cannon.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:04 No.8625918
    4 AIM-7 or AIM-120 (depending on Phantom version/country of origin) and 4 AIM-9
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:05 No.8625920
    I'm majorly sleep deprived, but yeah you're right.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:06 No.8625949
    I disagree. The F-4 should stay out of a dogfight. Sit back and be a missile boat. As many Sparrows, or AIM-120s if you can afford them as possible.
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/17/10(Wed)00:08 No.8625971
    Yeah, grab the cannon-pod, 2 AIM-7s, 2 Amraams, and 4 AIM-9s, should be able to either let your buds handle ground shit unless you're the groundpounder, in which case, dump the Amraams, and take as many Mark 82s as your DM will let you fit in the space freed up by the Amraams.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:09 No.8625994

    The Flanker is gonna get his money worth on this mission, the 111 on the other hand might be pretty limited.
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/17/10(Wed)00:11 No.8626038
    This guy here makes a point, you may want to drop the AIM-9s, grab 4 Amraams, and dump Mark 82s on all your other hardpoints, maybe, maybe lose two Mark 82s for two CBU-87s just in case.
    IIRC the Mark 82s and CBU-87s and all that are two to a hardpoint, so with 8 Mark 82s and 2 CBU-87s you'll be set for ground pounding, you can probably play around with that a little, but that's a basic effective loadout.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:13 No.8626068
    Knowing this GM, you should be prepared for the worst.

    Like the plane you're redirecting will be directly escorted and missiles will be a no-go without risking hitting it (but you're still a valid target for them).

    Or ground AAA/SAMs, or the boat has SAMs.

    And you have NO AWACS to make sure there aren't more enemy planes in the area. Be ready to get jumped. Try to suppress enemy communications, and jam the hell out of them.

    Ideally, come in without the enemy fighters finding you, stop the transport from relaying distress, and hug it close until it's landed.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:15 No.8626098
    This smells like a furball. And the AWAC preemption just underlines it.

    I'd make sure there are no fleet or ground movements in the area. Then load up everyone for intense air to air. Get extra chaff and flare. Make sure there are plenty of AIM-9s on EVERY bird. But pack some long range stuff as well. If you use a buddy tanker again your fighters can refuel instead of jettisoning tanks with fuel left in them, giving everyone more time in the air.

    Consider splitting up your force for this one. If the tanker keeps back he can stay hot and rely on a fighter screen which he keeps informed of enemy movement (do you have IFF?). The Aardvark won't want to mess with the F1s up close anyway.

    First I'd take out that boat, just to be sure. A quick flyover to confirm identity and then something that'll sink it. And ask Steve about the availability of jamming equipment, because even if you hit the boat well, they'll still have time to use the radio.

    Don't even bother with the target, just keep an eye on it. First you have to own the airspace. Find those Mirages or have them come to you. Thin them out as much as possible and then hunt them down one by one. If one gets stuck on one of your bulkier teammates, ask Steve about the Thach Weave.

    Sounds like the first real challenge.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:19 No.8626153
    >>First I'd take out that boat, just to be sure. A quick flyover to confirm identity and then something that'll sink it.
    GOOD CALL. Give the A-111 something to do, and take him out before the fight starts.

    You don't want a distress call getting you jumped at an inopportune moment.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:22 No.8626181
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    See that pod near the front of the Aardvark? Make sure your Vark pilot buys one of those. Have everyone contribute if necessary. But get one of those.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:25 No.8626219
    2nd the call for jamming equipment,since you don't want word getting out and the enemy will potentially have a BVR option that your ROE doesn't allow. I would suggest to the F-111 player to load up as a tanker/jammer for for this mission, maybe have everyone else agree to kick some extra money his way since he'll be acting as squad support rather than getting kills
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:26 No.8626233
    Is dat sum ECM package?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:26 No.8626234

    And to this I'd add, if your F-4 gets into a knife-fight, declare that you're using the high-speed yo-yo to keep inside his turn (which would be a Maneuver that would cost you Speed, basically,) which should be countered by them yo-yoing back, which will probably develop into a rolling scissors.

    You have the advantage there.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:28 No.8626244

    Samefaggotry from a tripfag?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:30 No.8626277
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:31 No.8626294
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:34 No.8626340
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:36 No.8626362

    tripfag forgetting the post he himself made imo
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:38 No.8626393
    OP again,

    I'm off for the night, thanks for the help again. There's a lot of variables I have to think about, I'm sure we'll spend 30 or more minutes determining our plan tommorow.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:39 No.8626411
    rolled 58 = 58

    Make sure you post it here again!
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:46 No.8626538
    If Op does not, we will hunt him down in our Cessna 172s. The only aircraft to ever evade soviet air defence.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:49 No.8626567
    Hmm...a bit more tricky.

    Flanker: Full AtA load out obviously. He's your primary in this case.
    F4s: Focus on the long range option like people said. You do NOT want to get into a close in dogfight if you don't have to. AIM9s if you absolutely have to get in close.
    Mirage: Hmm tough one. If its a similar model you could try and paint it up like theirs just to fool them. Get in close, confuse them, then blast em. AtA load out with a single Anti ship missile for the gunboat perhaps.
    F111: ECM/Jamming/Refueling with a possibility for antiship duty if you really want to try to fool the baddies with your own Mirage.

    Can't wait to hear how this all ends up.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:51 No.8626599
    What type of AAMs do Mirages carry?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)00:55 No.8626661

    * Guns: 2× 30 mm (1.18 in) DEFA 553 cannons with 150 rounds per gun
    * Rockets: 8× Matra rocket pods with 18× SNEB 68 mm rockets each
    * Missiles: 4× AIM-9 Sidewinders OR Matra R550 Magics, 2× Super 530Fs, 2× AM-39 Exocets, 2× AS-30L
    * Bombs: 14,000 lb (6,300 kg) of payload on five external hardpoints, including a variety of bombs, reconnaissance pods or Drop tanks
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:06 No.8626796

    They're light interceptors but since they're going long distance they'll be packing extra fuel which will probably cut them down to just two heat seekers each plus their guns.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/17/10(Wed)01:09 No.8626840
    Let's see here, so we have a dead family in the river near St. Claire. Older daughter of family returns home after hearing of the village of her birth's destruction. Turns out she works for French Embassy, and is being (unknowingly) scouted as an agent for the Direction de la protection et de la sécurite de la défense (another french external agency separate from the one that's been hiring the OP's group).

    The decision is made to utilize her as an intelligence asset to figure out what the boys across the hall are up to hiring out a mercenary fighter wing. At the same time, agents from the Direction générale de la sécurité extérieure are following up on the group, worried about potential backlash should OP's mercs get into a shady operation and this reflect towards their work with the French Foreign Legion.

    I'll have to evolve it further when OP makes his debriefing to us tomorrow, but does that sound like an interesting set up?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:16 No.8626916
    While the mission is sketchy, what I'm wondeirng about is the purpose. I've read up on Liberia, and its like batshit crazy town. What do they want with this VIP?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:16 No.8626923
    Hmm. Kit out the Mirage in same nations colors/numbers/weapons for the attack on the patrol boat. Make the identifying pass just to make sure its something you actually want to blow up and, if it is, cut loose and sink her. They don't appear to have air search radar so you should be able to get the drop on em.

    Either make the attack at the same time you're intercepting the enemy aircraft and target or use the attack on the patrol boat to possibly lure the Mirages off to investigate. May split em up.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:18 No.8626958
    I doubt they have time to re-paint the plane. I also think we should focus on the time thing, it's going to be dark as hell over the ocean/africa.
    >> NF !!0F1cKtqWzCb 03/17/10(Wed)01:21 No.8627017
    For purposes that likely involves mellifluous cackling and goat sacrifice clearly.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:28 No.8627112

    Oh fuck i didn't even notice the time in the mission brief. That just made things a lot more difficult. Hmm i guess they really wouldn't need to repaint for the darkness then.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:44 No.8627326
    this might be stupid, I don't know a whole hell of a lot about air combat, but should OP's group look into picking up some NVGs? I know they're supposed to be able to fly instruments only and whatnot but you'd think visual confirmation would be useful in an outing like this.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:56 No.8627471
    Little to no visuals on this one which means more active radars in use. I spell trouble.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:57 No.8627481
    by spell you meant SMELL right?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)01:59 No.8627496

    yes its late gimme a break
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)07:31 No.8630937
    rolled 71 = 71

    bump for awesome
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)10:26 No.8632515
    NVGs are heavy, and I don't think you can do air combat maneuvering with them, but they sound like they'd be worth the price. The Mirage team will probably be running with formation lights on, so that will be a plus. The ROE will be tough to deal with, unless you spark fire from the badguys first. Hell, maybe the attack on the ship could be a diversion, drawing the mirages there, and then skirting around back to the Falcon 50. It really depends on where things are set up.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)10:40 No.8632688

    Put one of these on each aircraft if you can afford it.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)10:43 No.8632705

    That wouldn't be a bad investment for the mirage or the F111.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)10:47 No.8632752
    I don't think they have airborne search and track IR. Bad investment for the Flanker though.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)10:50 No.8632784
    So who then? The F4s?
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/17/10(Wed)10:51 No.8632792
    meant to click >>8625949
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)10:53 No.8632810
    It would be a good investment, and the F4 has tons of space to spare. The Mirage could probably take one as well.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:21 No.8633062
    Get python 5s, they have lock on after launch. Could be useful.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:23 No.8633072
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    Waiting for OP to get back.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:25 No.8633093
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    yeah. Why does he taunt us so?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:28 No.8633116
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    Because he's dares to live a normal life.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:29 No.8633127
    That... that MONSTER!
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:30 No.8633132
    I just got finished reading the archive, and I have to ask, how did I miss all of these? At any given moment there is furry/40k/dnd/quest/versus threads infesting the board. And yet there have been seven of these threads all going to 300+ replies, and I have seen none of them until today?

    This topic also seems to have some serious support behind it. A homebrew (Lawl Homebrews suck) getting respect and praise. A gm who doesn't suck and has a mystery job. Links to various other games related to it allowing for discovery of awesomeness. Tons of fantastic aerial photos of some of the best looking aircraft ever made. Insightful analysis of modern military air combat capabilities. And yet, each of these threads, as glorious as they are, have apparently been page 10d by more mindless "Tau vs Ork vs Guardsman" and "So, a drow throws open her legs, what do you do" threads.
    I am overjoyed at this thread, dissapointed at its reception.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:32 No.8633156
    >Baawwww I like non-popular games about boring subjects.

    Deal with it.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:34 No.8633174
    >dissapointed at its reception


    You can hardly get a better reception here than almost 300 on-topic replies. Stop complaining about the fact that we like to discuss other stuff as well.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:35 No.8633192

    They only dropped to page 10 when people took off for work or sleep or when they reached their limit or got replaced.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:36 No.8633197
    I think they all hit the reply limit.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:38 No.8633214
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    Which is what we'll be hitting shortly.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:41 No.8633236
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    Have some Phantom
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:42 No.8633254

    Ooh Japanese F4s...shiny!
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:44 No.8633271

    More like F-Whore! That slutty bitch has slept with everybody in the neighborhood. She's worse than the MiG sisters.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:50 No.8633334
    >She's worse than the MiG sisters.
    Almost every single country flies/has flown MiGs. The U.S. and all those other countries that don't get along with the Ruskies? Even THEY have flown MiGs, albeit not in combat.
    If I country has never had a MiG in their air force, then it's because they've never had an air force.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:51 No.8633339

    I don't know about that. The Mig sisters, especially the older ones, are known for selling themselves cheaply, and commonly, in third world countries. You don't see miss F4 doing that.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:54 No.8633371
    That's for ground target acquisition. Finding a jet with a flir is like chasing a chicken with binoculars.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:54 No.8633372
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    Found a few more pics hidden in a random corner of my drive.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:56 No.8633381
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:56 No.8633389
    The newest Litening III pod has airborne search and track with BVR capabilities. It's essential for US aircraft that don't have the capability.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:56 No.8633391
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:57 No.8633398
    I love how sexy Fastpacks look on a Falcon.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:57 No.8633402
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:58 No.8633417
    What are those exactly? Purpose?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:59 No.8633422
    Conformal fuel tanks.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)11:59 No.8633426
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:00 No.8633441
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:01 No.8633443
    Any idea what kind of range they add?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:02 No.8633451
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:03 No.8633459
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    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:03 No.8633470
    Not off the top of my head, there's a lot of things to consider when talking about range extension.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:04 No.8633478
    Ok better question would be how much do they carry and how do they affect performance?
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:07 No.8633482
    We've autosaged.

    OP, you better fucking deliver a new thread on return.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:13 No.8633517
    They drag less than the hardpoin tanks. But they cannot be jettisoned. Which is why they are best used for bombing missions. If things get hairy you want a standoff weapon because twists and turns are no fun with CFTs. They turn the light F-16 into something heavy like an F-14.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:18 No.8633608
    Ok understandable. Not something i'd want if I really wanted to keep a multirole option during a mission.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:20 No.8633636
    Well, the guy above you didn't get it quite right. If the CFT's are full of fuel, yeah, they're heavy. You feed off the CFT first, so going into battle you're only carrying (hopefully) internal fuel. The F-16 remains a highly capable aircraft even with CFTs.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:22 No.8633651

    Right so hopefully by the time you've gotta drop into a furball you've only got a slight degrade in performance, what with the empty tanks not clogging up your wings.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:23 No.8633663
    Of course they do, why else would they build them? But the aerodynamics are negatively affected and especially for light fighters that is a big disadvantage.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:26 No.8633686
    Minimally affected, and that's more a thrust thing than anything else. In terms of turn ability, negligible issue.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:26 No.8633697
    I don't want to wait for OP.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:28 No.8633719
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    And I'm still waiting for the Gripen stats. Honestly, I really think that a few points have been made about how much long-range combat matters in aerial fights.

    I'm going to be trying this with a few friends this weekend. It will be awesome.

    Pic partially unrelated but still awesome.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:29 No.8633723
    If you slap CFT on a jet you limit it to certain mission parameters. With modern weapon systems you don't have to chase down an enmy, you can just send some AIM-120 it's way. But if you expect a furball you would want to take drop tanks instead, even if that limits your payload.

    For OP's mission I actually like the idea of outfitting a buddy tanker. That way the the fighting craft won't sacrifice maneuverability or range.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:29 No.8633726
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    Alright bitches. Things are winding down here. See you in the next thread.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:31 No.8633759
    I can't wait!

    And I want to see OP get his Super Hornet.

    Ah fuck it, I'll just get started on my own merc air setting.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)12:34 No.8633791
    BVR combat is highly misunderstood. There are so many factors involved. The F-22 for example, can only advance stealth like if it is nose cold. An awacs has to run the intercept. Which means you have to protect the Awacs. How many missiles on a target? Most US doctrines call for a minimum of two BVR rods per target. Then you have closing range/speed equations, etc. When you really understand BVR, you begin to see that we never really advanced from attrition strategy in a multi-threat environment.

    You can only send 120s on the way if someone else is running the Target lock. If you have nose hot, you better pray that you can out turn and out chaff the inbound missiles, since they WILL be coming. Or, if you are really, you get your shot off first, and your missile takes out the enemy first and the enemy was using SARH instead of ARH AAMs.
    >> Anonymous 03/17/10(Wed)13:02 No.8633833
    I'm thinking of doing the same thing, and just stealing this Steve guy's missions. They seem well balanced and fun. Knowing my play group though, they'll all get shot down within five minutes. Gotta teach them some of the stuff I've learned in these past seven threads.

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