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  • File : 1270748651.jpg-(4 KB, 125x125, 1249936302521.jpg)
    4 KB Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:44 No.9063660  
    So what's this Princess:The Hopeful crap on RPG.net all about?
    >> Mr. Monitor !XBVfKv4nAs 04/08/10(Thu)13:45 No.9063679
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    Sounds like someone tried to come up with an even more fagtastic WoD game than the Vampire one. I sure hope that isn't a real thing.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:46 No.9063699
    Vampire isn't faggy.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:53 No.9063808
    So? Anyone know about it?
    >> Mr. Monitor !XBVfKv4nAs 04/08/10(Thu)13:54 No.9063826
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    Well It's the faggiest of the bunch that I know of. The only people I know who were interested in playing it turned out to be Twitards. They all made sparkly vampires. It was horrible I tell you.

    Then again I bet if I tried the Werewolf one I would end up with a bunch of furries. So there is that.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)13:57 No.9063861
    Its like Genius, but with magical girls instead.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:16 No.9064103
    But I heard that Princess sucked.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:17 No.9064118
    and swallowed
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:28 No.9064232
    yes, and that.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:29 No.9064251
    Yes. Yes, it is.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:32 No.9064290

    Here you go.

    And once again, Princesses form Nakamas and are based in San Fransisco. They're job is to bring dreams and light back to the world.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:35 No.9064322
    That sounds pretty gay.
    >> TheBearderBear 04/08/10(Thu)14:37 No.9064344
    You should have pointed them to a very interesting fact that...

    >WoD vampires do not feel emotions. They will never be emo, fall in love or be remorseful about the death of their human self.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:38 No.9064359
    I'll take a look anyway.

    Oh God dammit, they're powered by *love*
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:40 No.9064380
    Actually, they do still feel emotions, but those emotions are calcified into the context they were felt in when they were alive. If a vampire's only living sexual experience was disturbing and creepy, then that's what ALL sex will feel like to them.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:40 No.9064390
    From the wiki:
    >Life is a Gordian knot. There's not always an easy way to do things

    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:42 No.9064420

    you play tabletop rpgs; that would be a step up for you in terms of friends
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:43 No.9064424
    This feels more like Exalted then NWoD, but without the stuff that made the Exalted setting good.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:49 No.9064488
    Okay, so basically Princesses are totally, unambigiously good guys in the WoD.

    That sucks
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)14:56 No.9064575
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    What? No. Vampires feel. It's just a faded echo of what they used to feel.

    Except for feeding, anyways. That feels like the best sex ever. Or heroin. Or the tastiest steak you ever eat. Or all three at once.

    They're fully capable of being emo. Most just roll with it however, generally degrading to about Morality 4 eventually and not giving much of a fuck.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)14:58 No.9064608
    Life is a Gordian Knot. Sometimes it's so troublesome you have to CUT THE FUCK OUT OF IT.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)16:57 No.9066603
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    I'm pretty sure that's what the poster meant - their comparison to the Gordian Knot (life is complicated and there is no easy answer) was stupid because in the Gordian Knot myth there WAS an easy answer - cut the fucking knot.

    Also, is it bad I want to throw these Princesses and Princes against the various supernatural critters in nWoD and Genuises? I'm curious to see if they're as unbalanced as they are unfitting.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)17:12 No.9066873
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    oh it's not that bad I actually like the princess idea though admittedly it's not the best of the RPG.net nWoD Originals that would probably belong to either Genius or Leviathan and at least it got more done than my attempt at a Toku themed Splat that I tried to do last year :P
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:14 No.9066909

    Leviathan? Do tell.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)17:15 No.9066924
    Read the Crossover stuff.

    Specifically the ones for Promethean and Changeling.

    Make sure that you don't have any sharp objects lying around. You WILL try to kill yourself.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:25 No.9067116

    And minus the bit where Geniuses are fucking lunatics who have the worst time avoiding degeneration of anyone.

    Make robot waifu? ROLL OBLIGATION LOSS. Give yourself extra arms? ROLL OBLIGATION LOSS. Perform life-saving surgery? ROLL OBLIGATION LOSS.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:27 No.9067142
    What IS Leviathan about?
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)17:27 No.9067154
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    basically Leviathan's are Deep-One like hybrids that are descended from Tiamat and compared to most nWoD Templates are ridiculously powerful but they also have some major drawbacks such as the fact that they draw cults around them whether they want them or not
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:28 No.9067181

    Ah. That's about what I guessed last time someone mentioned it. Seems like a Demon spin-off more than anything else.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:29 No.9067197
    Explain it. I don't want to wade into that shit.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:29 No.9067200

    Sounds Funtastic, can you give a link to where I can read more?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:30 No.9067210

    I'm not opposed to the idea but the execution is pretty damn awful.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)17:42 No.9067423
    Leviathan: The Tempest, A Game of Terrible Majesty

    Princess: The Hopeful, A Game of Fighting Fear

    Djinn: The Binding, A Game of Suppressed Fury

    Genius: The Transgression, A Game of Forbidden Science

    Henshin: The Change

    and I have a couple other Ideas but Henshin is the only one that has gotten anywhere
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:44 No.9067448
    if it's anything like Princess Tutu then I will play it with you guys on irc
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:44 No.9067459

    I'm opposed to the idea itself, in that mechanical issues aside, it totally fucking misses the point.

    If you were going to have a group of true heroes (whether animu style or more western superheroes) in WoD, you'd have to do it like Bleach, where all your idealism accomplishes SHIT if you can't back it up with power, and that power is both costly and deceptively easy to lose yourself in.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:50 No.9067568

    It's not. A Princess Tutu based game would be interesting, but probably falls under the purview of shit you can accomplish perfectly well just using Mage...
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)17:53 No.9067624
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    hilariously enough one of the Ideas I had included a version of Bleach's Shinigami alongside several other types of Death Spirits
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)17:59 No.9067711
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    The Purview of the Princesses is Hope which is something which is missing normally in the World of Darkness but as the saying goes "Hope Rides Alone" and the Princesses probably have the least amount of allies besides themselves since they've only been around in the Fluff since approximately the 1960's and are probably the youngest Template of all
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)17:59 No.9067721
    It's shit some faggots made up to cash in on the success of Genius and get internet famous.

    The mods on RPG.net have told them to stop spamming their shit and they instead decided to put it in their sigs and spam LOL +1 comments all over the forums. They're getting BANT soon.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:01 No.9067751
    THG spams his godawful shit on 4chan too?

    Stop posting this here before I complain to moot.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:01 No.9067756

    Call it "Psychopomp."
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:02 No.9067760
    Uh dur, there is Hope in the World of Darkness. It's a fucking Virtue.

    Also, there's no moral greyness to Princesses. Always believing in your childhood dreams and shit is considered to always be right, and doubting yourself is 100% wrong.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:02 No.9067779
    Wait, THG is the guy who made Princess on RPG.net?!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:03 No.9067794
    >Also, there's no moral greyness to Princesses. Always believing in your childhood dreams and shit is considered to always be right, and doubting yourself is 100% wrong.

    That sounds like a recipe for fucking disaster when applied to the real world. There's your moral greyness.
    >> Touhou Homebrew Guy 04/08/10(Thu)18:03 No.9067803
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    You scared me for a second until I noticed the different person with the same acronym.

    Polite sage because I don't know WoD (or RPG.net drama), and thus can't really contribute.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:04 No.9067804

    And it's confirmed, THG has never played or even looked at a WoD book in his life.

    Reported and hidden.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:04 No.9067815
    I have no problem with any of those things, what is your problem fag. It's not saying that they're stronger than werewolves and can banish vampires just by looking at them.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:04 No.9067816
    >It's shit some faggots made up to cash in on the success of Genius and get internet famous.

    >The mods on RPG.net have told them to stop spamming their shit and they instead decided to put it in their sigs and spam LOL +1 comments all over the forums. They're getting BANT soon.
    >> fuck THG. He is a fag Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:06 No.9067830
    >It's shit some faggots made up to cash in on the success of Genius and get internet famous

    >The mods on RPG.net have told them to stop spamming their shit and they instead decided to put it in their sigs and spam LOL +1 comments all over the forums. They're getting BANT soon.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:07 No.9067851
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    >A Princess Tutu based game would be interesting



    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:08 No.9067853
    Muses make Princesses feel they aren't pretty enough. Wretched make Princesses feel like they're too petty. Tammuz make Princesses want to care for everything.

    Princesses can shape the Hedge and use See the Inner Light to see through the Mask. Gentry treat Princesses politely, including going to take a Princess' daughter or something, only to see the Princess, tip his hat, and say "oh, I do so apologize, I didn't realize this one was yours".
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:08 No.9067859
    So what's to stop a Vamp from chowing down on the vagina retards?
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:10 No.9067884
    So basically... Geist?

    Because that's how I run Geist.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:10 No.9067891
    It's basically Exalted.

    Drosselmeyer: Ketchup Carjack
    Ahiru: Lunar with SMA
    Rue: Abyssal
    Mytho: Solar
    Fakir: Sidereal
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:10 No.9067897



    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:11 No.9067913
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    It's stupid. With werewolves you have Princesses inexplicably being associated with Luna and having "souls too big" to be possessed by spirits, which makes zero sense. Souls don't exactly have mass.

    With mages a Princess somehow gets an instant out on sympathetic magic by some ass-backwards logic that their two forms aren't the same, even though they're just different variations of the same person.

    With prommies THEY become angsty fuckheads instead of the prommies.

    And they're FRIENDS with the gentry. Which makes about as much sense as being friends with the ancient spirit-gods in the Deep Shadow. It doesn't happen. They're alien monstrosities. They only care for the lulz.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:11 No.9067915
    Yeah, except that in the corebook it's portrayed as the right thing to do, it's one of the game's central themes that it's the right thing to do. There's no fucking self-awareness.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:11 No.9067917
    >Princesses can shape the Hedge

    okay what that's going a little too far

    the fair folk treating them with respect is pretty thematic so I'll let it slide but this other shit is bullshit
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:12 No.9067929
    >having "souls too big" to be possessed by spirits, which makes zero sense. Souls don't exactly have mass.

    It's a metaphor you stupid cocksucker
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:12 No.9067933
    If one of the Gentry is treating someone with respect, it's because they consider it to be amusing to do so at the moment. They're completely solipsistic monsters.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:13 No.9067937
    Oh, that's the other thing.

    Vampires who take a bite out of a princess get feelings of HOPEFULNESS. They also get +1 to degenerate. Which... I guess means eating princesses makes you more able to be a sociopathic murderer without going crazy.
    The one thing that's bad is the werewolves--though only the Pure--kill them extra dead because they're tainted with THE MOON. I assume Forsaken love their little cunts.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:14 No.9067956
    >It's shit some faggots made up to cash in on the success of Genius and get internet famous.

    >The mods on RPG.net have told them to stop spamming their shit and they instead decided to put it in their sigs and spam LOL +1 comments all over the forums.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:14 No.9067968
    Wouldn't that mean that tons of Vampires would WANT to drain Princesses?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:15 No.9067992
    Well yeah. They enjoy playing roles. Such as the role of a gentleman tipping his hat to the embodiment of the ideals of grace and beauty.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)18:16 No.9068002
    I have the Corebook it's just been a while since I read it and also I thought mortal Virtues didn't apply to the Template races
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:17 No.9068010
    That is because you are a moron.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)18:17 No.9068011
    and no I'm not the Creator of Princess it's just that I think there's potential for it
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:17 No.9068012

    Bleach itself is basically Wraith starring Exalts.

    However, my point was less Bleach's fluff and more Bleach's tone. Power is gained through desperation and sacrifice, your goodness is an invitation for trouble, not a guarantee of victory, and it's a precarious balancing act between losing your ideals and losing yourself in them.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:17 No.9068015
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    Being metaphor only makes it dumber. No amount of GOOD and HEART will matter when some spirit tries to meld with you. If it's a Love or Justice or Good spirit that might just make it's job even easier.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:18 No.9068032
    But again, it's implied that the Gentry treat them with actual respect. That's not how Fae work. A Fae will devour the Princess's soul at a seconds notice if it decides that would be more "fun"
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:19 No.9068058
    >Being metaphor only makes it dumber. No amount of GOOD and HEART will matter when some spirit tries to meld with you. If it's a Love or Justice or Good spirit that might just make it's job even easier.

    Do you any scientific evidence that this assertion is based on?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:20 No.9068070
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    >Princess: The Hopeful
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:21 No.9068086
    That's because you're an idiot.
    There is plenty of Hope in the World of Darkness. It's a fleeting, frightened thing, but it is one of the strongest things in the setting. Hope is bathed in the blood of allies and strengthened by Will. Hope is the power to deal with the things in the World of Darkness and come out alive. Or come out at all.

    You are without a doubt a horrible, horrible person. I kindly request that you stop touching World of Darkness and step away. Put it down. Walk away.
    Walk far. Far away.

    You're almost as bad as Exalt, and her ideas for the Gentry, and her good Centimanus.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:21 No.9068096
    They gain humanity by tracking down someone specific for the sole purpose of taking away their life? Awesome.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:21 No.9068098
    That is literally the dumbest question I have ever seen.

    In awhile.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:22 No.9068100
    Why would there need to be scientific evidence?

    It's right there in the rules.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:22 No.9068111
    My hairy, flabby ass.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)18:24 No.9068135
    well that is awfully rude of you just because I'm ignorant about the game doesn't mean you get to act like a jackass though I will admit I don't know as much as I should
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:24 No.9068137

    Yeah, I was wondering if she'd show up at some point. This seems exactly the sort of thing she'd be into. Been remarkably quiet recently, hasn't she.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:25 No.9068151
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    The fact that the rules for being spirit rode and claimed only mentions resolve and composure, perhaps?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:25 No.9068154
    >It's shit some faggots made up to cash in on the success of Genius and get internet famous.

    >The mods on RPG.net have told them to stop spamming their shit and they instead decided to put it in their sigs and spam LOL +1 comments all over the forums. now they've stooped to shitting up 4chan
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:25 No.9068160
    This is 4Chan.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:26 No.9068183
    As I said before. THG is a faggot.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:29 No.9068214

    Also, you can have a sword 8 miles long.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)18:29 No.9068237
    what makes you say that?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:30 No.9068242
    The fuck is going on in this topic?! I know there's a lot of crossposters between here and rpg.net but can we at least give fucking lip-service to the anonymity and at the very least not drag cross-board haterade and drama? Jesus shit. Also you with the name, >>9068135, get the fuck out of here.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:31 No.9068264
    I saw one bit of writing with some Princesses discovering this guy who was collecting parts of the Prince of 10 000 Leaves. Then one of them had this big monologue where she said that teh Prince wasn't real because none of the stuff said in the book about that universe made any sense, there wouldn't be a large enough population to maintain sacrifices, etc.

    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)18:33 No.9068290
    man /tg/ sure is rude today and to think just last night you guys were talking about undead presidents fighting soviets and nazis
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:33 No.9068298
    You know, I could see a magical girl series working in the WoD for some reason. It would have to actually BE grimdark, yes, but I could see it working.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:35 No.9068336

    Unfortunately, Princess totally misses the point.
    >> FranFag !!rf9GReIeGFm 04/08/10(Thu)18:36 No.9068344
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    >Bonnie Getsuei, not really knowing anything about Arcadia or the Fae but knowing that some thing was going to come in the near future and endanger her child, once met one of the Gentry in her own home. She prepared for a fight, but the Fae just said "Oh, terribly sorry, I didn't realize this one was yours!", doffed his hat, and left the way he came.

    I thought The Gentry were supposed to be uber-dicks?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:36 No.9068360
    The only good nWoD RPGnet game is Genius.

    And even then it's a Wannabe Mage.

    Most of the fan games don't get (at the risk of sounding like some HERP DERP I AM PRENTIOUS person) the World of Darkness.

    They just care about power.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:36 No.9068364
    They must find magical princesse too pathetic to fuck with.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:36 No.9068365
    ...Is this true?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:37 No.9068374

    Blame the authors for not actually understanding... well... ANY of the WoD fluff.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:38 No.9068401

    But with SCIENCE!
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:38 No.9068404
    Again, this is 4Chan. We're rude as a matter of course. If we aren't rude, then something is wrong.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:38 No.9068407
    I dunno man, I read through the first few pages of Leviathan and that shit sounded pretty nifty. Granted it also seemed to start getting entangled with Exalted Infernal-esque "grow into massive god-monsters eventually" concepts, but the basic concept of slimy fish-man puberty with Cthulhu and Tiamat was pretty boss.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:39 No.9068412
    Spambot's here

    Everybody out
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:39 No.9068426
    Leviathian looked pretty cool.
    >> Touhou Homebrew Guy 04/08/10(Thu)18:42 No.9068481
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    There. Now that I've read the thread and have some grasp on what's happening, here's what I see as the general complaint phrased in a polite manner:

    Talking about insane pulp adventure and seeing that there are bad ideas are not mutually exclusive.

    If you aren't very familiar with a system, you shouldn't try to make rules for it; that counts double if you're unfamiliar with the setting and themes. Attempts like that will most likely be unworkable, unbalanced, unplayable and generally silly.

    While I support people following in others' footsteps with trying to make games, it'd be a good idea to fully acquaint yourself with what you hope to work on before getting started.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:43 No.9068499
    Any properly done animu heroes game would need a rule that gave you massive bonus XP for nearly dying in all your fights.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:46 No.9068557

    So far as I know, all the current WoD (and fan-WoD) stuff has a 1-dimensional morality system. No balance required, just be a fucking saint at all times and everyone will love you.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:48 No.9068597
    No, that you're completely misunderstanding THE ENTIRE GAME is why I'm being a jackass.

    That's because she's spent all the time she would be arguing on 4chan instead arguing with my group. She's joining Promethean, and maybe Mage. I convinced her to drop the Changeling crap, but her Mage seems like she's meant to basically be this horribly religious person who wants everyone to Awaken and Ascend to be gods of their own domains, and somehow expects to do this in game.

    In a game that's supposed to be about my guy working as a detective and taking down his mentor.

    Her Promethean was basically a Zeka Centimanus that wasn't all that selfish, and wanted to destroy Creation and make the Promethean 'race' gods. On equal standing with her. Only I convinced her that not every character she played needed to be a lesbian, so now it's a him. AND now he's got a good evil plot. To unleash an Azoth fueled nuclear explosion. Which is awesome.

    tl;dr: Quiet is relative.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:53 No.9068675
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    >just be a fucking saint at all times and everyone will love you.

    1. Easier said than done
    2. Ahahaha, no.

    Being saintly tends to screw most everyone over since you can't do much without triggering degeneration and most won't respond favorably to your pacifistic ways. It's mostly werewolves that can get away with it since killing humans and spirits carries no degeneration so long as you have a good reason ("fucking with my territory" is a good reason).

    Werewolves can have a blood-soaked Bodhisattva. Other splats? Not so much, since most pattern off the human morality rules, which - at saintly levels like 9 and 10 - can suffer degeneration simply for *thinking* selfishly.
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)18:54 No.9068691
    It's one axis, but not necessarily one dimensional. You can get bonuses and penalties (sometime people seem to forget), and heck, my PI has a permanent +1 to Wisdom drops because I meditate every morning.

    The morality is also rarely black and white. Sin-Eaters, for instance, can kill whoever they think deserves it, and can steal without hesitation.
    But only if it has to do with maintaining the balance of life and Death. You can't just go kill people on the street, but if you kill a murderer, then there's no problem. Take a little money off the side when you pass on a ghost and know where it's treasure is buried, who cares? Beat a guy up on the street? That's not very nice, and you're gonna drop.

    Hell, my Reaper kills people and then goes through their fridge.
    >> The Humble Gentleman 04/08/10(Thu)18:55 No.9068701
    thank you for your polite criticism you win an internet :D
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:55 No.9068703

    Way to completely miss the point.

    The fact that it's difficult to uphold [Morality Stat] 10 doesn't make the system any less one-dimensional.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:57 No.9068735

    Oh god. I feel your pain man.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)18:59 No.9068768

    I honestly don't see the difference between making Leviathan or just making an nWoD Demon.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:00 No.9068784
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    Do explain how it's one dimensional, since your origi9nal argument seemed to be "If you're morality 10 everyone loves you" which is not how it works at all, since you're still a target and most everyone struggles to not degenerate at that level if they do anything but escape/evade.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:07 No.9068922

    One end of the stat line is Mother Theresa and the other is Jason Vorhees. Pretty simple to understand.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:07 No.9068924
    Well, it is literally a straight line from 0 to 10...
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:10 No.9068984
    Has a splat used Conviction as the morality stat name yet?
    >> Lace 04/08/10(Thu)19:11 No.9068998
    No it isn't...

    You can be a Morality 0 monster and still be a nice person. It's less easy to be Morality 10 and mean, but possible.

    Low Morality means you're more likely to do something, not that you will do it. Admittedly, outside of the supernatural, it does mean you HAVE done it. And quite a few times, since you can only drop one at a time.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:12 No.9069009
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    And? Morality is, contrary to the name they gave it, more of an Empathy score. It represents how empathic your character is (which is why you get mental illnesses from failure to justify and rationalize your failings well enough).

    That 10 is Mother Theresa and 0 is Vorhees only makes sense.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:14 No.9069035

    Morality 0 characters are unplayably insane.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:16 No.9069092
    Whether you think the morality system being one dimensional is a bad thing or not is a different matter, but it's really not disputable that it IS one-dimensional.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:30 No.9069311
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    >Morality 0 characters are unplayable
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:32 No.9069358
    For supers a Morality Stat at 8-10 often gives you a bonus that you couldn't otherwise get. The drawback is that supers can no longer just fulfill their virtue to gain a point of Morality. Often supers WILL need to kill some shit and if you can't, you die.

    Mage:Spirits like you because you aren't a dick. You can also beat up the Abyss and negate Paradox.

    Changelings:You can see shit clearly. Perception rolls get a bonus. You get super-ultra-mega Unseen Sense that makes Supernal Vision look gay.

    Vamp:You can pass for a human. Fuck, you can FEEL EMOTIONS. The evil brain parasite finally shuts the fuck up! shitrox.

    Geist:You can kill whoever the fuck you WANT to as a Sin-Eater.(Homicidal negligence is a different matter) Just make it quick and reasonably humane. Your ghost superpowers will work that much better if you do.

    Promethean:You're nice enough that people can ignore the OH DEAR GOD A FUCKING HORRIBLE CORPSE MONSTER impulse if they WANT to. This really helps you on your Pilgrimage.

    Geniuses:People think you're sane and that you should be a figure of authority.

    Enjoy your status as a superhero/PRESIDENT LEX LUTHOR, until, much like Lex Luthor, you finally go off the deep end, and the light finally eats out the back of your eyes until there is nothing recognizable as having once been YOU.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:33 No.9069376

    Depends on the game type there. Are you playing Hunter-Slashers? Then no, no 0 Morality for you. Are you playing a dead teenager game where one guy basically IS Jason Vorhees and everyone else is trying to stop him? Then yeah, Morality 0 is OK because you are in fact playing a hopelessly insane monster.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)19:51 No.9069712
    What do Princesses have as their morality stat? Glitziness?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:08 No.9070039

    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:10 No.9070071
    Princess gives Genius and Leviathan a bad name.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:23 No.9070324

    Actual answer: Belief.

    I swear to god. They degenerate when they don't believe in themselves.
    >Belief tracks the strength of a Princess's convictions, her belief in herself and her cause. Characters with high Belief are confident, assured, able to draw on their power more readily due to the strength of their certainty. They inspire confidence in everyone around them. Characters with low Belief are wracked with doubt and despair, losing their confidence that the world can be saved and that they have the ability to do it, thinking larger and larger compromises must be necessary if there is any hope to win at all.

    I'm sorry this has to be an elaborate troll.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:39 No.9070683

    Wow, that's just... christ. Do we offer olympic medals in missing the point?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:40 No.9070714
    >I'm sorry this has to be an elaborate troll.
    You didn't notice that with the Gordian knot quote?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:42 No.9070747
    Okay... physically impossible to miss the point any more... Seriously, we're at the point where if it missed the point any farther it'd start coming back from around the other side.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:44 No.9070780
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    >dreams & light
    >world of DARKNESS
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:45 No.9070805

    Is Leviathan good?

    Still seems like a Demon clone to me, and I can't keep shaking that feeling off.

    Henshin should not exist, or at least not be in the nWoD universe. Haven't looked at Djinn.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:50 No.9070935
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    After reading the djinn one, it seems like a pretty neat concept.
    It needs a bit of work, but it could actually be fun.

    imagine being a creature of raw chaos with fenominal cosmic power.
    you wake up one day and after the initial confusion of waking up for the first time everyou realize you now have
    tons of bindings on your powers that only let you have semi-fenominal and nearly cosmic power.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)20:58 No.9071076
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    oh and if you don't act like a human then your life gets really misrable really fast.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:00 No.9071129
    My only problem with Leviathan, and god bless the guys working on it, but they seem to be fucking up the antagonists. They've written out the crazy monstrous cousins of the Leviathans (various primordial children of titans kind of stuff) it seems, and in a conflict of "are the Marduk Geniuses or are they sky wizards" they've just become a Hunter conspiracy with some pretty lame gadgets as endowments.

    I mean fuck.

    The concept behind the Marduk way back in the day, the "legendary history of the Leviathans" bullshit about skywizards that slew Tiamat aside, were "old men torturing an angel in a laboratory for SCIENCE!"

    But apparently they were too afraid of it being too Magey or too Geniusy.

    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:04 No.9071205
    For a hypothetical, actually thematic WoD animu heroes system, I'd go with Conviction for the morality equivalent. Both high AND low Conviction would be slippery slopes. Slide towards the bottom and you just stop caring anymore and eventually give up, rocket off the top and become an increasingly narrow-minded extremist and finally villain.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:05 No.9071232
    I would play the fuck out of Superhero: The Golden Aging
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:06 No.9071244

    ...A game about being a hero reaching retirement age?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:08 No.9071275

    No no no, obviously those are the clan/tribe splats.

    Pulp Mystery Men, Golden Agers, Silver Agers, Bronze/Iron Agers, and Modern Agers
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:08 No.9071294

    Any particular reason that would have to be animu heroes rather than just super-powered heroes in general?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:12 No.9071358

    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:16 No.9071440
    For anime type heroes in particular, there can be a mechanic of 'raising the stakes' like, your characters will increase their power almost exponentially, but progressively stronger opponents will come out of the woodwork causing increasing amounts of collateral damage. ...And your character is at least vaguely aware that this is the case.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:19 No.9071509

    Well, there IS Aberrant.

    And Adventure! if you want to go pulp.

    No one cares about Trinity.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:21 No.9071545

    Congratulations, you're reading my mind.

    Making heroes literal danger magnets and capable of practically out-of-control power escalation, particularly at high conviction levels, was one of the ideas I was toying with.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:27 No.9071671
    For what it's worth I went back to the original brainstorming thread and the first post started with "
    Today I remembered John Biles' parody homebrew, Senshi: The Merchandising, and I started brainstorming how'd you go about something like for nWOD." So if any possible doubt about the nature of this thing hadn't already been dispelled, well, there you go.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:27 No.9071681
    Hmm... So worst case scenario, it becomes Exalted? Or worse?
    Also, for both anime and western heroes it'd be neat to have a mechanic where mortality becomes... blurry (resurrections or just miraculous survival) which, as you can imagine, fucks everything up so bad you don't even wanna know...
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:31 No.9071757

    Well, if some people are actually taking it seriously, then they've failed.

    It sure as hell isn't a parody NOW.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:45 No.9072077

    Well... going full DBZ scale with characters who can blow up planets might be a bit excessive.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)21:47 No.9072108

    But on the other hand, why not?
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)22:36 No.9073201
    Bump for interest in Hero: the Believing It or whatever.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)22:39 No.9073295

    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)22:40 No.9073303

    Also, the more I read about this game the more I want to punch myself in the fact so my brain isn't tainted with memories involving it.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)22:55 No.9073739

    Ah yes... coming up with a decent name is another problem.
    >> Anonymous 04/08/10(Thu)23:14 No.9074176
    Will this proposed game let me put points in Plot Armor?

    Because if so, I am totally behind it.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:07 No.9075387

    Tempting, but probably a bit too meta.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:29 No.9075855
    What about the powers in Princess? What're they like?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:33 No.9075963
    Also vaguely interested.

    Also bump for Shonen: the Teenage Power Fantasy
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:37 No.9076033

    They're named charms, because the writers have no imagination.* They just kind of... do things. And have silly names with no parallelism. The ones named after songs are kind of cool though, in title if not in effect.

    *This statement is going to bite me, because I also concluded that Callings was the best name for the collection of heroic "tribe" stats and that's what they use. Oh well.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:38 No.9076058
    Unicorns: The Harmony
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:42 No.9076150

    OH LOVE!
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:48 No.9076276
    The fact that this game is set in San Francisco makes me really suspect it's an elaborate joke.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)00:52 No.9076369
    Hmm... How about the addition that if the heroes just quit, stop their ludicrous training, marry their love interest and get a normal life, the escalation will end (and jump right back up to dangerously high if the heroes step out of retirement)?
    It fits the shounen genre, but the idea that you literally can just call it quits without ramifications seems to lack both grim and darkness.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:00 No.9076511

    "...and then I realized all my efforts had done nothing more than put us back where we were at the beginning, gave up, and went home. The end." isn't sufficiently dark for you?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:07 No.9076673
    Hey, just because the escalation ends, doesn't mean the threats you escalated to are gone. And you're in retirement now, so who'll take care of them? If you go fight them, it will only end in further escalation.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:19 No.9076857
    Well obviously you should only retire after you got rid of the latest batch of threats, that way no new group will materialize.
    ...Also a loophole would be to be like Shikamaru and actually be clever with limited power... But the only caveat would be you genuinely have to be intelligent, no letting dice do the talking.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:23 No.9076913
    But there's always another threat. Either your enemy ascends to some new level of power, or they have somebody stronger their strings, or a shadowy cabal is watching from the sidelines. THERE IS ALWAYS A THREAT ALWAYS A NEED FOR MORE POWER. You're essentially trapped by your own sense of obligation in a never-ending cycle of destruction and powermongering.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:29 No.9077018

    This guy's got the idea, yes. Being clever and not falling back on your plot armor may extend your career, but ultimately? You give up, you go out in a blaze of glory, or you become a tyrant.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:30 No.9077034
    Which seems fairly appropriate to nWoD to me.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:39 No.9077205
    You know, Hero: the Escalation or whatever is actually starting to sound pretty cool. Maybe we should archive this so /tg/ won't forget, and maybe get shit done, making it.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:40 No.9077216
    There's always a new threat... Until there isn't. When you've reached a point that deep down, you've had enough, you trigger the final conflict. The stakes will be high, but you might even survive, get a good job, a family, and lead an ordinary life. ...Except that you'll need to live with the things you've done, especially the fact that everything you've accomplished was pretty much a waste of time. (Of course, if you have helped people in non violent ways, like actually talking, you might not be dissatisfied... but that seems unlikely)
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:43 No.9077298

    Yeah... I'm still not coming up with a really satisfactory title for this thing.

    I think Champion would work better than Hero though, both for brand identity reasons (i.e. making people think it's related to that TV show) and for being a slightly less generic word. Any other proposals
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:44 No.9077310
    If you call it quits, you'll have a good life. For a little while. Then your wife gets carbombed, or your child gets kidnapped. All that's left is for you to grab your gun, swear vengeance, and utter "I'm too old for this shit"
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:44 No.9077313

    Pretend I put a question mark at the end of that post.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:45 No.9077332
    I agree, I mean if you have the right mindset, it's easy to fit things into the World of Darkness.
    Also I'd like to note that this doesn't have to solely be anime style... I mean you can roll up a Superman analogue... spend the first couple episodes fighting gangsters and muggers, then supervillains like Toyman etc. then Lex Luthor who's been funding the villains and their increasingly effective weapons, and after him learn he had help from Braniac/General Zod, and then find out that they were either a patsy or actually holding back Darkseid, the embodiment of tyranny... and you know, deep down, that if you don't stop, they'll have been something even worse behind him.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:47 No.9077368
    I dunno I dontcare

    I, Something Else, plan on hacking rpg net within hours!

    It's gonna be funny, Im gonna give everyone mod status so they can read the shit going on backstage. Tell ya, the mods are gigantic child molesters.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)01:48 No.9077380
    Seems more Hunter, but I think it might violate what I've seen as a matter of choice, like whether out of a desire to help others, avenge a loss, gain fame/fortune, or even for the lulz, you are on some level doing this because you -want- to. Having your hand forced just makes it seem... unfair.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:01 No.9077628
    I agree with it being a choice. It's always your decision. There is this shit out there, and it's dangerous, and you can stop it. But, even if you don't intellectually know the metaphysical mechanics of it, deep-down you understand that you're really part of the problem, and choosing to use your power to protect people is ultimately only going to bring down more suffering.

    But you choose to do it anyway, because you can't not.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:12 No.9077856
    Yeah, but having something like 'oh, you tried to retire? Too bad your family got kidnapped!' seems like a dick move.
    The only possible way out is to mentor some successors, and after passing the buck, pray they will be less foolish than you.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:15 No.9077923

    That and you're like 16. Delusions of invincibility, the keenest feel you'll ever have for injustice, and zero common sense!
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:18 No.9077982
    Well yeah, it is a dick move. Which is why I'm against that. It morally denies choice. You and your family, your way of life, is fine. It's everybody who needs to be protected, and that's the choice. Can you allow innocents to suffer when you personally have the power to save them, even if only in the short term?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:18 No.9077996
    Sorry, everybody ELSE
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:19 No.9078008

    I'm with you on this one. Having to live knowing that they had the power to change the world (or at least, they thought so) and gave it up is punishment enough, no need to also make things come and rape their families.

    Or at least, no need to make things come and rape their families at a statistically higher rate than is typical for the world of darkness.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:20 No.9078030
    Wow, sounds almost as gay as Genius: the Transgression or whatever the fuck they're calling it now
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:23 No.9078077

    Genius is awesome. Poorly balanced, but awesome.
    >> Sorain !VReP2N9ezw 04/09/10(Fri)02:38 No.9078375
    >An angel is another kind of monster. Those who do what they believe is right, relentlessly, unapologetic, frequently frightening those around them. It's understandable -- you have power and they don't. No matter how kind you try and be, you're taking the decision out of their hands. Not everybody will be thankful. Many will try to destroy you or chain you down. They might be right. They might be wrong. To act, you need the resolution to decide what is what and many will call that inhuman.

    HOLY FETH! I now know exactly how to describe a modern setting Paladin.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:38 No.9078381
    Cool idea (not Princess, the other thing) but WHY are the heroes part of the problem, exactly? Just for the sake of genre convention?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:43 No.9078437
    Yes, but more to Shounen then World of Darkness. I mean just the idea that the hero needs new villains, and if the hero gets stronger so do the new enemies etc. Only with the meta bit that if there's no hero, there won't be any villains to challenge him.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:48 No.9078505

    Tentative explanation? The creation of Champions is a sadistic trap, either to get people who might actually change things for the better stuck treading water in ultimately pointless super power fights, or just because something out there likes watching them fail.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:50 No.9078534
    Or because their power adversely effects the various seals keeping the really fucked up things locked away...
    Or just Spiral Power, like they are actually negatively effecting the universe/karma and the villains are a counterbalance.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:51 No.9078551
    The question is what does this to them? Before your post, I was thinking they were some kind of bizzare singularity in reality, unconsciously warping the universe to fit their own power fantasies.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:54 No.9078582
    It is possible to win though, as long as you remember to actually be a decent human being in addition to a hero. That way, after you hung up the cape and wonder 'what was the point of all this' you can remember all the lives you've saved or improved, and realize that for most of them, you didn't even really -need- your powers... And whether it's from working a job that benefits others (even something as simple as a guidance councilor) or just volunteer at charities, or even just -listen- to people's problems... maybe you didn't stop being a hero, but started instead.
    ...Though would making it a metaphor about growing up be too hamhanded?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:58 No.9078626

    I considered that as well, but realized that it detracted from the tragedy of the situation, plus Unmada Geniuses already do exactly that so we'd just be retreading concepts.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)02:59 No.9078636

    Old Changeling was set in San Fransisco.

    I just thought it was a reference to that, but I guess not.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:01 No.9078654

    I assumed it was a gay joke.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:03 No.9078679
    Maybe an angel/deity is the source? Looking at creation from...outside and weeping yet unable to intervene directly so it chooses the hearts of the bold and pure (in that order) to spread light... But it's intervention unbalances the universe, and provokes an opposite reaction.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:04 No.9078692

    Given Princesses' parody roots, it would make sense, but now it seems to have reached a point where even the devs (or whoever's left of the devs) are taking it seriously, so who knows.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:05 No.9078709

    It's not really ham-handed when that's already the moral of a lot of super-hero stuff anyway.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:05 No.9078722
    Ah, right then. Not actually that familiar with Genius, so I didn't know I was stepping on toes.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:06 No.9078726
    Damn. For some reason the name made me think this was going to be about delusional crazies who only THINK that they're magical girls living in anime land, when in reality they're pretty much just psychos.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:07 No.9078738

    It's not like the "book" would have to make a definite statement on the matter anyway, just give the guesses of those who survived and studied the phenomenon enough to realize they weren't the only people this sort of shit had happened to.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:08 No.9078755
    Sailor Moon: the Slasher Saga
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:10 No.9078792
    Seems more prevalent in Anime and Manga then Western stuff.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:14 No.9078837

    Geniuses are mad scientists who see the world through really twisted lenses, but can still build working inventions that run on their incredibly incorrect theories of how the universe works. In short they perceive a different, but apparently possible, universe from everyone else, and they can temporarily manifest it in this one through mad science.

    Unmada Geniuses are the ones who can no longer tell that their view is NOT how things actually work, and wherever they go the world starts bending to fit their perception.

    This includes creating enemies for them when they inevitably become paranoid.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:20 No.9078912

    True. The same trends appear in western stuff though, it just isn't brought to the forefront within the series as often.

    It happens on occasion though, like whenever they point out that Richard Reeds and Dr. Doom are both utterly squandering their potential because they apply all their intelligence towards childishly one-upping each other instead of, say, CURING CANCER.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:23 No.9078930
    Yeah, but there's usually no sense of power escalation (though Events seem to raise the stakes/occur more frequently)
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:26 No.9078967

    It happens, they just hit the reset button a lot to avoid getting too ridiculous. Read from any given reboot and you'll watch Batman go from throwing drug dealers in jail to outsmarting nigh-omniscient AIs bent on universal domination, all without making the world a lick safer.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:28 No.9078990
    Which is exactly the point of Champion: the SomethingSomething!
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:33 No.9079054

    Yeah, we still need a subtitle.

    And I need a nap.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:35 No.9079072
    Yeah, it's 2:30 in the morning for me.

    Also, I'd like to reiterate the virtues of archiving. I tried to do it myself, but apparently I am a failure, and sup/tg/ hates me.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:43 No.9079199
    Champion: the Struggle
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:45 No.9079243

    Or possibly Champion: the Call?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:46 No.9079261
    Archived (for now) under Champion: The Escalation, though it's only a tentative title
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:49 No.9079309

    Do we have to vote for it to be archived or just leave it alone?
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:50 No.9079325
    voting couldn't hurt, I don't think.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:52 No.9079365

    If it's Suptg, it archives no matter what.

    It's why the place still has some fucking terrible threads.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:52 No.9079366

    Ah, I see it now.

    I'm also amused just how close the description you put for the thread matched the one I was in the middle of submitting.
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)03:53 No.9079378
    so are you people going to troll/ruin this or what
    >> Anonymous 04/09/10(Fri)09:30 No.9083088
    Ba-bump (tish).

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