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    110 KB Kingmaker kingdom building rules Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:09 No.9815315  
    Alignment: A kingdom’s alignment affects its statistics, so choose your kingdom’s alignment carefully.

    Lawful kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Economy checks.

    Chaotic kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Loyalty checks.

    Good kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Loyalty checks.

    Evil kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Economy checks.

    Neutral kingdoms gain a +2 bonus on Stability checks (a truly neutral kingdom gains this bonus twice).

    Size: Count the number of hexes your kingdom comprises and record that number here. This number affects a kingdom’s Consumption and its Control DC.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:09 No.9815328
    Control DC: A kingdom’s Control DC is 20 + its size; this value is the DC you’ll be rolling against most often with your kingdom’s Stability, Economy, and Loyalty checks.

    Population: Actual population numbers do not factor into your kingdom’s statistics, but it can be fun to track the number anyway. A kingdom’s population is equal to its size × 250 + the total population of each of its cities. Stability, Economy, and Loyalty: These three values are analogous to saving throws. You make Stability checks during a kingdom’s Upkeep phase to determine whether it remains secure. You make Economy checks during a kingdom’s Income phase to determine how much its treasury increases. You make Loyalty checks to keep the public peace. A kingdom’s initial scores in all three of these categories is 0 + the kingdom’s alignment modifiers. A natural 1 is always a failure for these checks, and a natural 20 is always a success.

    Unrest: A kingdom’s Unrest value indicates how rebellious its people are. A kingdom’s Unrest score is applied as a penalty on all Stability, Economy, and Loyalty checks. If a kingdom’s Unrest is above 10, it begins to lose control of hexes it has claimed. If a kingdom’s Unrest score ever reaches 20, it falls into anarchy. While in anarchy, a kingdom can take no action and treats all Stability, Economy, and Loyalty check results as 0. Restoring order once a kingdom falls into anarchy typically requires a number of quests and lengthy adventures by the kingdom’s would-be leaders.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:10 No.9815347
    Consumption: A kingdom’s prosperity is measured by the Build Points (abbreviated BP) in its treasury, and its Consumption indicates how many BP it costs to keep the kingdom functioning. If a kingdom is unable to pay its Consumption, its Unrest increases by 2. A kingdom’s Consumption is equal to its size plus the number of city districts it contains plus adjustments for Edicts minus 2 per farmland.

    Treasury: As your kingdom earns money, favors, resources, and power, its Build Point total increases.

    Special Resources: If your kingdom includes any special resources (see below), record them here.

    Leadership: Write in the names of the PCs or NPCs filling each of the 11 leadership roles here, along with their appropriate modifiers.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:12 No.9815366

    Edicts (promotions, taxes, and festivals) increase your kingdom’s Stability, Economy, and Loyalty scores. Promotions can include recruitments, advertisements, and even propaganda campaigns. Taxes are payments gathered from a kingdom’s citizens to help pay for Consumption. Festivals, which can also include parades and other public events, can increase the kingdom’s happiness and loyalty.

    Kingdom Edicts

    Token/+1/1 BP
    Standard/+2/2 BP
    Aggressive/+3/4 BP
    Expansionist/+4/8 BP
    Taxation Level/Economy Bonus/Loyalty Penalty
    Light/+1 /--1
    Festivals per Year/Loyalty Bonus/Consumption Increase
    1/+1/1 BP
    6/+2/2 BP
    12/+3/4 BP
    24/+4/8 BP
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:13 No.9815378
    Special Resources

    Some hexes do more than just add size to a kingdom—they also add resources and impact a kingdom’s Stability, Economy, Loyalty, and other elements.

    Bridge: A bridge hex negates the cost increase of building a road that crosses a river.

    Building: If you establish a city in a hex at a building location, you can incorporate the building into the city as a free building—the encounter indicates what type of building it counts as. See page 58 for a list of building types.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:14 No.9815386
    Cave: Caves can be used as defensive fallback points, storage, or even guard posts or prisons. A cave hex increases a kingdom’s Stability by 1.

    Landmarks: Landmarks are sites of great pride, mystery, and wonder. They serve well to bolster a kingdom’s morale. A landmark hex increases a kingdom’s Loyalty by 1.

    Road: A hex with a road in it allows for much easier travel. For every four road hexes your kingdom controls, the kingdom’s Economy increases by 1. For every eight road hexes your kingdom controls, its Stability increases by 1.

    Ruins: A ruin can be incorporated into a city as a building—doing so halves the cost of the building, as the ruin only needs to be repaired rather than having to be built from the ground up. The encounter indicates what type of building a repaired ruin counts as. See page 58 for a list of building types.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:14 No.9815388
    Fucking awesome OP!!
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:14 No.9815396
    Towns: A town consists of an established settlement—claiming a town hex is an excellent way to add a fully functional city to a kingdom. In order to claim a town hex peacefully, the annexing kingdom must make a Stability check (DC = Command DC). Failure indicates that radicals and upstarts in the town increase your kingdom’s Unrest score by 2d4.

    Resources: Resources include particularly valuable sources of lumber, metal, gems, food, or the like. A resource hex increases a kingdom’s Economy by 1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:15 No.9815403
    Leadership Roles
    A healthy kingdom has leaders filling a number of different roles. Each leader grants the kingdom different benefits; leaving a role unfilled can penalize the kingdom. In order for a Leadership role to grant its bonus, the character in that particular role must spend at least 1 week per month engaged in various leadership duties (during which time the PCs must be located within a hex that is part of their kingdom). For this campaign, it’s best to have the party pick the same week to dedicate to their administrative duties so that all of the PCs are all available for “adventuring duty” at the same time. A single character can only occupy one leadership role at a time.

    The ruler is the primary leader of the kingdom. Unlike the other leadership roles, a ruler uses one of three distinct titles, depending on the current size of the kingdom. For a kingdom of size 1–20, its ruler is known as a baron or baroness. For a kingdom of size 21–80, its ruler is known as a duke or duchess. A kingdom of size 81 or higher is ruled by a king or queen.

    A baron or baroness chooses one of a nation’s statistics (Economy, Loyalty, or Stability) and modifies that score by a value equal to the character’s Charisma modifier. A duke or duchess chooses two of these values to modify. A king or queen modifies all three values.

    Vacancy Penalty
    A kingdom without a ruler cannot claim new hexes, create farmlands, build roads, or purchase city districts. Increase Unrest by 4 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no ruler.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:15 No.9815406
    What is this, tell me of this, I'm interested.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:16 No.9815421
    Two characters can fill this role if they become married, in which case the two rulers can jointly command the kingdom. Both rulers apply their Charisma modifiers to the kingdom’s Stability, Economy, and Loyalty checks as appropriate for their rank, and as long as one of the two rulers is present for 1 week per month, they avoid the vacancy penalty.

    The councilor ensures that the will of the citizenry is represented.

    Increase Loyalty by a value equal to the Councilor’s Wisdom or Charisma modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Decrease Loyalty by 2; the kingdom cannot gain benefits from festivals. Increase Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no Councilor.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:17 No.9815430
    The General commands the kingdom’s armies and is a public hero.

    Increase Stability by a value equal to the General’s Strength or Charisma modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Decrease Stability by 4.

    Grand Diplomat
    The Grand Diplomat oversees international relations.

    Increase Stability by a value equal to the Grand Diplomat’s Intelligence or Charisma modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Decrease Stability by 2; the kingdom cannot issue Promotion Edicts.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:18 No.9815445
    High Priest
    The high priest guides the kingdom’s religious needs and growth.

    Increase Stability by a value equal to the High Priest’s Wisdom or Charisma modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Decrease Stability and Loyalty by 2. Increase Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no High Priest.

    The Magister guides a kingdom’s higher learning and magic.

    Increase Economy by a value equal to the Magister’s Intelligence or Charisma modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Decrease Economy by 4.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:19 No.9815449
    The Marshal helps organize patrols and enforces justice in rural and wilderness regions.

    Benefit Increase
    Economy by a value equal to the Marshal’s Dexterity or Wisdom modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Decrease Economy by 4.

    Royal Assassin
    The Royal Assassin can serve as a public executioner, a headsman, or a shadowy assassin.

    Benefit Increase
    Loyalty by a value equal to the Royal Assassin’s Strength or Dexterity modifier. Fear inspired by the Royal Assassin reduces Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase.

    Vacancy Penalty
    A kingdom without a Royal Assassin suffers no vacancy penalty.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:20 No.9815459
    The Spymaster observes the kingdom’s underworld and criminal elements and spies on other kingdoms.

    Benefit Increase
    Loyalty, Economy, or Stability (Spymaster’s choice) by a value equal to the Spymaster’s Dexterity or Intelligence modifier. The Spymaster can change which value he modifies during the kingdom’s Improvement phase (but only once per phase).

    Vacancy Penalty
    Reduce Economy by 4 because of out-of-control crime. Increase Unrest by 1 during each Upkeep phase in which the kingdom has no Spymaster.

    The Treasurer organizes tax collection, and manages the treasury.

    Increase Economy by a value equal to the Treasurer’s Intelligence or Wisdom modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Reduce Economy by 4; the kingdom cannot collect taxes.

    The Warden leads the kingdom’s defense and city guards.

    Benefit Increase
    Loyalty by a value equal to the Warden’s Strength or Constitution modifier.

    Vacancy Penalty
    Reduce Loyalty by 4 and Stability by 2.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:21 No.9815476
    Building Cities
    The greatest asset of any kingdom are its cities, for it is here that the bulk of a kingdom’s citizens live, its armies train, its culture develops, and its future is forged. The rules presented here are designed to support the rules for kingdom building presented in the first portion of this article and to give players a visual representation of a city (the city grid) they helped to build up from scratch.

    Reading the Grid
    The city grid consists of 36 city blocks, each arranged into nine larger squares. Each block is separated by alleys, while each square is separated by streets. The nine squares themselves are in turn bordered by four sides—each side represents a border to the entire city district. A district border can represent a city wall, a river, a lake or ocean shore, a cliff, or merely the transition from one city district into another. For larger cities, you can prepare multiple districts sharing common borders.

    As the PCs build structures and locations, they can place cut-out representations of their buildings into these city blocks, eventually creating a visual representation of their completed city.
    >> The Loneliest Vault-Dweller 05/14/10(Fri)14:22 No.9815493
    >Chaotic Kingdom
    >gain Loyalty
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:23 No.9815498
    Preparing the Site
    Once you select a location for your city (which must be in a hex you have explored and cleared), you must pay to have the site cleared and prepared to support the city’s roads and buildings. The cost and time required to clear space in various terrains is detailed on the table on page 59.

    Once you finish preparing the site, decide which of the district’s borders are water (in the form of riverbanks, lakeshores, or seashores) or land. Record these choices at each border on your city grid. In addition, adding a city district to a kingdom increases its Consumption by 1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:24 No.9815508
    Terrain/Cost to Prepare/Time to Prepare
    Forest/4 BP/2 months
    Grassland/1 BP/Immediate*
    Hills/2 BP/1 month
    Mountains/12 BP/4 months
    Swamp/8 BP/3 months
    *Construction of buildings can be started the same month for grassland cities.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:24 No.9815518
    The City Grid in Play
    You can use your city grid to aid in resolving encounters or adjusting kingdom or city statistics.

    Destroyed Blocks: If an event destroys one or more blocks, the devastation causes +1 Unrest per destroyed block. The cost to build the replacement structure is halved if the replacement is the same type of structure as the one that preceded the destruction.

    City Grid Scale: Although combat encounters in a city should still be played out normally, you might need to determine how long it takes for someone to travel from one location to another in the city in the case of multiple encounters.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:25 No.9815522
    Base Value
    When using these rules to build a settlement, the city’s base value (see Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, pages 460– 461) starts at 200 gp. It increases as you construct certain buildings, like shops and marketplaces.

    Building A City
    Once you’ve prepared your city district, you can start to build. The placement of buildings in your district is left to you, but two-block and four-block structures cannot be split up (although they can span streets). When you decide to place a building, you can use the cut-out icon for the appropriate type of structure and affix the building where you wish in your city grid. It takes 1 month to construct a building, no matter what size the building is—its benefits apply immediately.

    Population: A city’s population is equal to the number of completed blocks within its districts × 250. A city grid that has all 36 blocks filled with buildings has a population of 9,000.

    Defensive Modifier: A city’s Defensive Modifier can be increased by building certain structures and has an impact on mass combat Keep track of your city’s Defensive Modifier, but until the city is attacked by an invading army this value is not used.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:25 No.9815530
    for balance reasons
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:25 No.9815532
    Base Value: The base value associated with a city built in this manner is tied not to its size but rather to the number of Economy-based buildings it has. Each such building, whether it’s a shop, tavern, or brothel, increases a city’s base value. Any magic item equal to or lower than this base value in cost is available for purchase 100% of the time, or 75% of the time if it is double the base value.

    At the GM’s whim, using construction magic (such as a lyre of building or spells like fabricate or wall of stone) can reduce the cost of a building’s BP by 2 (minimum of 0 BP). This is a one-time reduction, regardless of the amount of magic used.

    Magic Item Availability: A certain number of more powerful and valuable magic items are available for purchase in any city, although these items tend to be of a somewhat random nature as new items are found or created and enter the economy. As with base value, a community’s size does not influence the number of magic items above base value that are available for purchase. Instead, these items become available as certain buildings (like academies or magic shops) are added to a city. Whenever such a building is added to a city, place an “X” in one of the boxes next to the appropriate item category to indicate that the city has gained a “slot” in that category. During every Upkeep phase, randomly roll a magic item of the appropriate category for each empty slot.

    After it is generated, a magic item remains on the market until it is purchased. Alternatively, once per Income phase, a kingdom can make Economy checks to try to sell items; once the item is sold, its slot remains empty until the next Upkeep phase (see page 61).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:26 No.9815539
    Building Types
    Adding buildings to a city is one of the most efficient ways to enhance your kingdom’s statistics, as each block of buildings added to a city in your kingdom grants a specific bonus. Page 62 presents icons for 31 one-block buildings, eight two-block buildings, and four four-block buildings. Descriptions of each of these buildings, as well as the bonuses it provides once it’s added to a city, are listed below. The building’s BP cost and any prerequisite buildings that must be built first are listed in parentheses after its name. The building’s benefit to the city and kingdom once it is constructed is listed last in italics. If a building affects Unrest, it does so only once, when it is first constructed. A fair amount of additional residential structures are common amid most one- and two-block structures.

    Academy (52 BP): An institution of higher learning that can focus on any area of knowledge or education, including magic. Halves cost of Caster’s Tower, Library, and Magic Shop in same city; 3 minor items, 2 medium items; Economy +2, Loyalty +2.

    Alchemist (18 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): The laboratory and home of a creator of potions, poisons, and alchemical items. City base value +1,000 gp; 1 minor item; Economy +1.

    Arena (40 BP): A large public structure for competitions, demonstrations, team sports, or bloodsports. Halves cost of Garrison or Theater in same city; halves Consumption increase penalty for festival edicts; Stability +4; limit one per city.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:27 No.9815547
    Barracks (12 BP): A building to house city guards, militia, and military forces. Defense Modifier +2; Unrest –1.

    Black Market (50 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): A number of shops with secret and usually illegal or dangerous wares. City base value +2,000; 2 minor items, 1 medium item, 1 major item; Economy +2, Stability +1; Unrest +1.

    Brewery (6 BP): A building for beermaking, winemaking, or similar use. Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    Brothel (4 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A place to pay for companionship of any sort. Economy +1, Loyalty +2; Unrest +1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:27 No.9815555
    Caster’s Tower (30 BP): The home and laboratory for a spellcaster. 3 minor items, 2 medium items; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

    Castle (54 BP): The home of the city’s leader or the heart of its defenses. Halves cost of Noble Villa or Town Hall in same city; Economy +2, Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Defense Modifier +8; Unrest –4; limit one per city.

    Cathedral (58 BP): The focal point of the city’s religion and spiritual leadership. Halves cost of Temple or Academy in same city; halves Consumption increase penalty for promotion edicts; 3 minor items, 2 medium items; Loyalty +4; Unrest –4; limit one per city.

    City Wall (8 BP): City walls do not occupy a city block— rather, purchasing a city wall fortifies one of a district’s four outer borders. A city wall cannot be built on a water border. Defense Modifier +4; Unrest –2.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:28 No.9815564
    Dump (4 BP): A centralized place to dispose of refuse. Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    Exotic Craftsman (10 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): The workshop and home of an exotic craftsman, such as a creator of magic items, a tinker, a fireworks maker, or a glassblower. 1 minor item; Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    Garrison (28 BP): A large building to house armies, train guards, and recruit militia. Halves cost of City Wall, Granary, and Jail in same city; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.

    Granary (12 BP): A place to store grain and food. Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    Graveyard (4 BP): A plot of land to honor and bury the dead. Economy +1, Loyalty +1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:28 No.9815570
    >Chaotic Kingdom
    >could exist
    what am I reading.png
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:28 No.9815574
    Guildhall (34 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A large building that serves as headquarters for a guild or similar organization. City base value +1,000 gp; halves cost of Pier, Stable, and Tradesman in same city; Economy +2, Loyalty +2.

    Herbalist (10 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): The workshop and home of a gardener, healer, poisoner, or creator of potions. 1 minor item; Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    House (3 BP): A number of mid-sized houses for citizens. Houses serve as prerequisites for many other buildings. The first house you build during any Improvement Phase does not count against the total number of buildings you can build during the phase. Unrest –1.

    Inn (10 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A place for visitors to spend the night. City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

    Jail (14 BP): A fortified structure for housing criminals. Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.

    Library (6 BP): A large building containing books, often presided over by a sage or other scholar. Economy +1, Loyalty +1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:29 No.9815585
    Luxury Store (28 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A shop that specializes in expensive wares and luxuries. City base value +2,000 gp; 2 minor items; Economy +1.

    Magic Shop (68 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): A shop that specializes in magic items and spells. City base value +2,000 gp; 4 minor items, 2 medium items, 1 major item; Economy +1.

    Mansion (10 BP): A single huge manor housing a rich family and its servants. Stability +1.

    Market (48 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): An open area for mercantile pursuits, traveling merchants, and bargain hunters. City base value +2,000 gp; halves cost of Black Market, Inn, and Shop in same city; 2 minor items; Economy +2, Stability +2.

    Mill (6 BP; must be next to a water border): A building used to cut lumber or grind grain. Economy +1, Stability +1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:29 No.9815596
    Monument (6 BP): A monument can be a statue of a city founder, a bell tower, a large tomb, or a public display of art. Loyalty +3; Unrest –1.

    Noble Villa (24 BP): A sprawling manor with luxurious grounds that houses a noble. Halves cost of Exotic Craftsman, Luxury Store, and Mansion in same city; Economy +1, Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    Park (4 BP): A plot of land set aside for its natural beauty. Loyalty +1; Unrest –1.

    Piers (16 BP; must be adjacent to a water border): Warehouses and workshops for docking ships and handling cargo and passengers. City base value +1,000 gp; +1 Economy, +1 Stability.

    Shop (8 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A general store. City base value +500 gp; Economy +1.

    Shrine (8 BP): A small shrine or similar holy site. 1 minor item; Loyalty +1; Unrest –1.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:30 No.9815605
    Smith (6 BP): An armor smith, blacksmith, or weapon smith. Economy +1, Stability +1.

    Stable (10 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A structure for housing or selling horses and other mounts. City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

    Tannery (6 BP; cannot be adjacent to a house): A structure that prepares hides and leather. Economy +1, Stability +1.

    Tavern (12 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): An eatery or drinking establishment. City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

    Temple (32 BP): A large place of worship dedicated to a deity. Halves cost of Graveyard, Monument, and Shrine in same city; 2 minor items; Loyalty +2, Stability +2; Unrest –2.

    Tenement (1 BP): A staggering number of low-rent, cheap housing units. Tenements count as houses for the purpose of fulfilling building requirements, but building too many tenements can increase a kingdom’s Unrest quickly. You can build a house over an existing tenement for 2 BP. Unrest +2.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:31 No.9815619
    Theater (24 BP): A venue for providing entertainment such as plays, operas, concerts, and the like. Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city; Economy +2, Stability +2.

    Town Hall (22 BP): A public venue for town meetings and repository for town records. Halves cost of Barracks, Dump, and Watchtower in same city; Economy +1, Loyalty +1, Stability +1.

    Tradesman (10 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A shopfront for a tradesman, such as a baker, butcher, candle maker, cooper, or rope maker. City base value +500 gp; +1 Economy, +1 Stability.

    Watchtower (6 BP): A tall structure that serves as a guard post and landmark. +1 Stability; +2 Defense Modifier; Unrest –1.

    Waterfront (90 BP; must be adjacent to a water border): A port for arrival and departure when traveling by water, facilities for building ships, and a center of commerce. City base value +4,000 gp; 3 minor items, 2 medium items, 1 major item; halves cost of Guildhall and Market in same city, halves Loyalty penalty for tax edicts; Economy +4; limit one per city.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:31 No.9815621
    You are a hero OP.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:32 No.9815626
    Ruling a Kingdom
    Like a player character’s stat block, a kingdom’s stat block continues to evolve and grow as the kingdom expands, gathers more resources, purchases upgrades, and suffers defeats and setbacks. As the kingdom grows, the PCs will need to deal with a host of situations, all of which can further influence the kingdom’s stat block.

    A kingdom’s growth occurs during four phases, which represent a month in total. When the PCs establish a kingdom, you should pick a day of each month to resolve that kingdom’s growth and fortunes—it’s best to set this as the last day of each month, so that any accomplishments the PCs have made during that month can impact that month’s growth.

    One thing to decide early on is who makes kingdom rolls. The obvious choice is for the Ruler to roll the dice, as this adds a feeling of command to that player’s role. You can also assign each roll to a specific leader—for example, the Treasurer might make Economy checks and the Warden may wish to make all checks having to do with events under her command. Ultimately, since a kingdom is shared by all the players, it doesn’t matter who makes the kingdom’s Economy, Loyalty, and Stability checks, but assigning them can be fun nonetheless.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:33 No.9815638
    Upkeep Phase
    During a kingdom’s Upkeep phase, take the following actions. If your kingdom currently controls 0 hexes, skip this phase and proceed to the Improvement phase.

    Step 1—Determine Kingdom Stability: Make a Stability check against your Command DC to determine your kingdom’s level of security for the month. If you make the check, reduce your kingdom’s Unrest by 1 (if your Unrest is at 0, gain 1 BP as a result of surplus goods and services). If you fail this check by 5 or more, increase Unrest by 2.

    Step 2—Pay Consumption: Deduct your kingdom’s Consumption from the kingdom’s Treasury BP. If you aren’t able to pay for the month’s Consumption, your kingdom’s BP drops into the negative. Every time you end an Upkeep phase with negative BP in your Treasury, your kingdom’s Unrest increases by 2.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:33 No.9815639

    Depends on definition of chaotic. If Chaotic = freedom/liberty then yes it would be fine.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:33 No.9815650
    Somebody archive this. . .
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:33 No.9815654
    Step 3—Fill Vacant Magic Item Slots: If there are any vacant magic item slots in any cities, randomly roll new items to fill these slots.

    Step 4—Unrest: If the kingdom’s Unrest is 11 or higher, it loses one hex chosen by the kingdom’s leaders. Any improvements in that hex (farmlands and roads) are lost and must be rebuilt after the hex is reclaimed. Any settlements in that hex become towns that must be annexed if they are to be reclaimed into the kingdom (see page 56). Finally, if the kingdom employs a Royal Assassin, reduce your total Unrest by 1 at the end of this phase.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:34 No.9815675
    Improvement Phase
    During a kingdom’s Improvement phase, take the following actions. The number of improvements you can make during a single phase is limited by your kingdom’s size; see the Improvements per Month table for these limits.

    Step 1—Select Leadership: Assign leaders to any vacant leadership roles. Leaders must be PCs or closely allied NPCs. You can change leaders as often as you want with no impact on your nation’s statistics (apart from changing what bonuses apply, as the ability scores of leaders differ); reallocating roles allows you to give every player a chance to play the role of ruler if you wish.

    Step 2—Claim Hexes: Each hex on the maps of the Stolen Lands measures 12 miles across, and the PCs’ kingdom must be built hex by hex. To claim a hex, you must explore it and clear it of monsters or dangerous hazards; the hex must also be adjacent to a hex that is already part of the kingdom (with the exception of the first hex, which can be anywhere). At this point, you can claim the hex as part of the kingdom by spending 1 BP. Increase your kingdom’s size (and thus its Consumption) by 1 for each hex you claim. You can abandon a hex to reduce your kingdom’s Size. Doing so increases Unrest by 1 (or by 4, if the abandoned hex contained a city).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:35 No.9815684
    Step 3—Establish and Improve Cities: Prepare land for city districts and then purchase new buildings for your kingdom’s cities. The building’s adjustments to your nation apply immediately. You can also destroy buildings at this time in order to clear a space to build something new; if you destroy a building, don’t forget to remove its benefits from your kingdom’s statistics!

    Step 4—Build Roads: Roads have an immediate initial cost but over the long term can pay for the investment handsomely. It costs 1 BP to build a road though a hex. This cost increases to 2 BP in forests and to 4 BP in swamps and mountains. If the road crosses a river, a bridge must be built—this doubles the road’s cost.

    Step 5: Establish Farmlands: You can develop any grassland or hill hex that contains roads into farmlands to help sustain your kingdom’s Consumption. It costs 2 BP to designate a grassland hex as farmland and 4 BP to designate a hill hex as farmland. You cannot build a city on a farmland hex. Every farmland hex in your kingdom reduces your Consumption by 2 BP.

    Step 6: Edicts: Pick or adjust your edict levels (see page 55) as you wish.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:36 No.9815696
    Income Phase
    During a kingdom’s Income phase, take the following actions.

    Step 1—Deposits: You can add funds to a kingdom’s treasury by donating coins, gems, jewelry, weapons, armor, magic items, and other valuables you find while adventuring. For every full 4,000 gp in value of the deposit, increase your kingdom’s BP by 1. Items that individually cost more than 4,000 gp must be sold as detailed under Step 3 below.

    Step 2—Withdrawals: You can also withdraw funds from the kingdom’s treasury, but doing so runs the risk of annoying the citizens. Each time you withdraw funds, the kingdom’s Unrest increases by 1. In addition, you must make a Loyalty check (DC = Command DC + number of BP being withdrawn); a failure causes your kingdom to gain Unrest equal to the total BP withdrawn. Each BP withdrawn in this manner converts into 2,000 gp.

    Step 3—Sell Valuable Items: You can attempt to sell items that cost more than 4,000 gp through your city’s markets to bolster your kingdom’s Treasury; these can be items you recover during an adventure or they can be magic items currently held by any of your cities. To sell these items, make an Economy check (DC 20 for minor items, DC 35 for moderate items, and DC 50 for major items). A failed check indicates the item doesn’t sell. Success indicates that the item sells and you can increase your kingdom’s treasury by 2 BP (for minor items), 8 BP (for moderate items), or 15 BP (for major items). You can make one Economy check per city district during each Income phase.

    Step 4—Generate Income: Make an Economy check against your Command DC at the end of your Income phase. If you’re successful, divide your result by 5 (dropping any fractions) and increase your Treasury’s BP by that amount.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:37 No.9815709
    Event Phase
    During a kingdom’s Event phase, roll once on the Kingdom Events table to determine if an event occurs. Adventurespecific kingdom events occur during this phase. Once you’ve determined what kind of event occurs (if any), simply follow the rules for each event to determine how the event impacts the PCs’ kingdom or cities.

    Improvements per Month Kingdom

    Size/New Cities/New Buildings/Hex Claims/Roads/Farmlands
    201+/4/No limit/12/8/4
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:38 No.9815723
    Buildings that effect your Kingsdom's UNREST

    very small decreases

    small decreases
    •City Walls

    large decreases
    •Black Market

    small increases
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:38 No.9815735
    Buildings that increase your Kingdom's ECONOMY

    small increases
    •Caster's Tower
    •Luxury Store
    •Magic Shop
    •Noble Villa
    •Town Hall

    medium increases
    •Black Market

    very large increase
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:39 No.9815747
    Buildings that increase your Kingdom's LOYALTY

    lesser increases
    •Caster's Tower
    •Exotic Craftsman
    •Noble Villa
    •Town Hall

    medium increases

    large increase

    very large increase
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:40 No.9815758
    Buildings that increase your Kingdom's STABILITY

    lesser increases
    •Black Market
    •Exotic Craftsman
    •Noble Villa
    •Town Hall

    medium increases

    very large increase
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:40 No.9815765
    Chaotic nations will generally have less laws and allow more personal freedom; if not to the common man, then at least to landowners and businessmen. It makes perfect sense.

    Likewise, evil kingdoms are more 'loyal' because they're corrupt. Bribes hold the place together.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:40 No.9815767
    Buildings that increase your CITY DEFENSE

    small increases
    •Watch Tower

    medium increase
    •City Walls

    very large increase

    Buildings that increase your Kingdom's GP VALUE

    small increases

    medium increases

    large increases
    •Black Market
    •Luxury Store
    •Magic Shop

    very large increase
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:41 No.9815769
    holy shit O:
    gib book noa
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:41 No.9815781
    Buildings that grant your Kingdom ADDITIONAL MAGIC ITEM SLOTS
    •Alchemist -> 1 minor
    •Exotic Tradesman -> 1 minor
    •Herbalist -> 1 minor
    •Shrine -> 1 minor
    •Luxury Store -> 2 minor
    •Market -> 2 minor
    •Temple -> 2 minor
    •Academy -> 3 minor, 2 medium
    •Caster's Tower -> 3 minor, 2 medium
    •Cathedral -> 3 minor, 2 medium
    •Black Market -> 2 minor, 1 medium, 1 major
    •Waterfront -> 3 minor, 2 medium, 1 major
    •Magic Shop -> 4 minor, 2 medium, 1 major

    Buildings that aid in the CONSTRUCTION OF OTHER BUILDINGS (in the same city)
    •Academy -> aids in construction of Caster's Tower, Library AND Magic Shop
    •Arena -> aids in constuction of Garrison OR Theatre
    •Castle -> aids in constuction of Noble Villa OR Town Hall
    •Cathedral -> aids in constuction of Temple OR Academy
    •Garrison -> aids in constuction of City Wall, Granary AND Jail
    •Guildhall -> aids in constuction of Pier, Stable AND Tradesman
    •Market -> aids in constuction of Black Market, Inn AND Shop
    •Noble Villa -> aids in constuction of Exotic Craftsman, Luxury Store, AND Mansion
    •Temple -> aids in constuction of Graveyard, Monument AND Shrine
    •Theatre -> aids in constuction of Brothel, Park AND Tavern
    •Town Hall -> aids in constuction of Barracks, Dump AND Watchtower
    •Waterfront -> aids in constuction of Guildhall AND Market
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:42 No.9815803
    They have better economies, actually.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:43 No.9815806
    Here are some clarifications -
    Multiple city grids can indeed exist in a single hex, but you have to prepare the land for each grid. Every time you add a city grid to your kingdom, no matter if it's in a hex that has a grid or not, you pay the prep cost and your Consumption goes up by 1.

    I think the answer to your question is really a reorientation of your perspective on what the BP economy is about. You are seeing it like "PCs have a sack of resources (BP), and they take out the cash when they want to buy/build something." That is, building a building is like going to the store - you pick out the one you want, you give your money to the person who has the item. They keep the money, you get the item.

    Looking at it that way, it does seem odd - why are we "buying" a brothel? Or a tannery? Or a shop? Can't people set up their own businesses? Why should the PCs be paying for the actions of NPCs?

    Here's your answer:
    When you spend BPs, you aren't spending YOUR resources. You are influencing your citizens (including new citizens you are constantly drawing into your kingdom) to spend THEIR resources.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)14:43 No.9815807

    I would be more inclined to say that they gain bonuses to loyalty checks by brutally crushing dissent.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:44 No.9815828
    Let me explain.

    BPs aren't money. They aren't even exactly material resources. They INCLUDE money, and material goods, and livestock, and lumber and seed and wheat and plows and wagons, and all the rest. But they also include people. They also include political capital, goodwill, advertising with town criers and recruiters going around and spreading the good name of your kingdom and encouraging people to resettle in your land and bring with them their skills and businesses. They include EVERYTHING that can be considered a useful resource that exists in your kingdom. BPs are the combined wealth and capital, both tangible and intangible, of everyone in the kingdom.

    This includes the businesses that NPCs create for themselves. The PCs don't "control" those businesses in a literal in-game sense. They don't buy or sell or control inventory or any other kind of micro- managing tasks. Instead, the expenditure of BP to build, say, a shop, represents dedicating the resources to recruit shopkeepers from elsewhere, to resettle and build their businesses within your kingdom, to transport their goods within your kingdom.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:44 No.9815836
    >Bridge: A bridge hex negates the cost increase of building a road that crosses a river.

    Maybe I missed something, but isn't a Road across a River called a "Bridge"?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:44 No.9815838
    The citizens of your kingdom and their lives and livelihoods and homes and farms and city buildings are both the OUTCOME of BPs, and also the MEANS by which BPs exist. They *are* the resource you are spending. Just like when you roll up a new character and "spend" your starting money, you aren't going down to the corner store with a sack of loot to buy a suit of armor, a sword, and a backpack. Your "starting money" represents all of the wealth and resources you have accumulated in your life prior to starting your career. In your backstory, your sword was your father's old nicked blade from the Goblin War. In pure game mechanics, you "spent" 20 gp on it, but all that represents is that "20 gp worth of your game mechanical wealth is represented in the form of this sword you possess," not that you literally spent 20 golden coins to get a shrink-wrapped blade at Ye Olde Weapyne Stoere. BPs are an abstract means of assigning a value to what the PCs control in a game-mechanical sense. Your kingdom encompasses a certain amount of material and immaterial wealth, the vast majority of which is in the form of stuff that your PC's don't actually OWN. BUT, while they don't own it, they as the rulers of this new land, as long as they maintain the goodwill of the people, do get to control it - not on a micromanagement level, but they get to decide, in broad brushstrokes, what the citizenry of the kingdom will do, and where, and when. Found a city, build roads from here to there, plant farms, expand commerce and business opportunities.

    I think if you look at BP expenditures as what the leadership of your rulers CAUSE to happen in the kingdom (in month-long increments, remember), rather than a personalized kind of traction the PCs are doing out of their royal checkbook, I think it makes a lot more sense.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)14:45 No.9815846

    We're about to have a conversation about whether free market libertarianism is 'lawful' or 'chaotic', aren't we?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:45 No.9815849
    You the guy recruiting earlier?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:45 No.9815862
    Watchtower (6 BP): +1 Stability; +2 Defense Modifier; Unrest –1.
    Barracks (12 BP): Defense Modifier +2; Unrest –1.

    Shouldn't the cost of these by swapped? Otherwise, it's pay more, get less (unless I misunderstood something).

    Yeah; that's kinda weird. Swapping the BP costs is a good fix.

    Just wondering....... what will the costs for armies be? I assume it will be several BP per unit (how large will units be?) in addition to some BP consumption per month?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:45 No.9815864
    It's very definitely chaotic.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:46 No.9815882
    I expect my players wanting to start building up an army quite quickly (with many Military type of characters including a Cleric of Gorum), thus this would be interesting to know, Armies will cost money to create and money to maintain; but saving money would be handy. It's not going to be a HUGE cost... but a well- equipped army of high level soldiers could EASILLY start costing dozens of BP a month if you do crazy things like give them healing potions or magic weapons...

    A change to edicts doesn't affect the consumption for that month; it takes a bit for the change to go into effect, and so won't hit consumption until the next turn's Upkeep.

    As for the festivals, the number per year is as much the number you actually hold as it is the number you promise, and the number that the common folk prepare for and look forward to over the months. This assumes that the king isn't lying when he tells the commoners "we'll have 12 festivals this year!" You get the stat changes automatically, in other words; if you reduce the number per year later, the modifiers change then.

    Well... a hex is 12 miles across from side to side (not from angle to angle), and a single city block is about a square mile... So about 120 city districts will fit into a hex, and that means that since there's 36 blocks per district, you can fit 4,320 city blocks into a hex. Assuming all that hex's ground is actually ground, and not water.

    But 120 city districts is enough that I suspect no one will really ever hit that limit in the course of most campaigns. The kingdom building rules certainly weren't built with that expectation, so if you WERE to do this, I bet the rules would start doing some weird stuff.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:47 No.9815891
    EXTRA HOUSE RULES +++++ Errata
    Any of these actions take the place of the "build a farm" action in your kingdom turn. They also are mutually exclusive - you can have a farm OR a mine OR a fort OR a camp in a hex. None of these improvements represent a single building in a 12-mile hex. It's not just one farm, or just one mine, or just one fort. Building means you have devoted the primary physical and human(oid) resources of that hex to the activity of farming (farm), mining (mine), logging/fishing (camp), or patrols and defense (fort).

    You can, however, build roads through a hex with any of the above. So, you might consider the following as possible house rule ideas:

    Fort: (6 BP, cost is halved if built over an area with an existing Lair or Cave) Instead of building a farm hex, a fort can be built in any hex. +1 Stability, -1 Unrest. If the hex is attacked, +2 Defense.

    Mine: (6 BP) Instead of building a farm hex, you can build a mine in hills or mountains. +1 Economy, +1 Stability. This is doubled if the hex contains a "resource" like gold or iron ore: +2 Economy, +2 Stability.

    Camp: (6 BP) Instead of building a farm hex, you can build a logging camp and mill in forests or a fishing camp in swamps. +1 Economy, +1 Stability. This is doubled if the hex contains a "resource" like rare lumber, herbs, or fish: +2 Economy, +2 Stability.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:47 No.9815892
         File1273862877.jpg-(71 KB, 533x594, lol wut.jpg)
    71 KB
    In Pathfinder, a Lawful nation is less loyal than a Chaotic one and less stable than a Neutral one.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:48 No.9815908
    No. Check the OP. Law and Evil both give bonuses to Econ check.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:48 No.9815911
    Terraforming: Instead of building a farm hex, you can convert a forest hex into hills or a swamp into grassland. This takes 6 months and costs 24 BP. You could also plant a forest in a grassland or hills hex (though I'm not too sure why you would want to) for the same cost. You continue to gain the benefits of a camp during terraforming, but at the end of the terraforming it is destroyed.

    Rivers: Much like roads, rivers can be used for commerce. For every 4 hexes your kingdom controls that contains rivers, you gain +1 Economy. (Yes, hexes with a river and a road count for both.)

    Barracks (6 BP):Defense Modifier +2; Unrest –1.

    Exotic Craftsman (10 BP):1 minor item, +1 Economy, +1 Stability.

    Graveyard (4 BP): +1 loyalty

    Watchtower (12 BP): +1 Stability; +2 Defense Modifier; Unrest –1.
    >> OP 05/14/10(Fri)14:49 No.9815925
    And I'm spent.

    > You the guy recruiting earlier?

    Yup, that's me.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)14:50 No.9815947

    You're probably right, actually. I was too busy thinking of things in terms of American politics (corporations are primary power holders, and removing limitations on them is a shift TOWARDS authoritarianism, not away).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:51 No.9815950
    Is there any way to get the 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion .pdf that doesn't involve buying it off of Paizo's site(its free, but it still requires a lengthy signup process and I'm not doing that)
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:51 No.9815952
    Neat. Did you post for a reason or just to share? I'm one of the candidates for your game, so I'll go give this a read over.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:51 No.9815959
    Wait wait, is Kingmaker out? Does anyone have a rapidshare or a mediafire or something?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:52 No.9815968
    So how big is one of these hexes anyway?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:52 No.9815969
    It would've thought they'd have it on the SRD by now.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)14:53 No.9815985

    I think you're bones. They're annoying about their free stuff, but because its free I would be very surprised if anyone anywhere bothered to fileshare it.

    I guess you could hope that someone has it in this thread. But why would they go to the trouble of uploading it just to save you the trouble of making a free paizo account?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:53 No.9815987
    Just sharing. It's a really neat system, though I'm still learning it. Since it seemed solid enough on its own, I wanted to hear stories of brave elegan/tg/entlemen and their forays into nation building and conquest.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:56 No.9816009
    It sure looks beter then the system Birthright had and I'd love to pick up our old Birthright campains again but with this as its engine.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)14:56 No.9816020
    >+1 Stability, -1 Unrest

    Unless I am mistaken, you could just phrase that as "-1 economy, -1 loyalty".

    Unrest applies as a penalty to everything.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:56 No.9816022
    The Chaotic bonus to Loyalty seems a bit weird, but I've just started. I'm a sucker for detailed or at least passable rules for things like this.

    You planned to adapt Kingmaker into 4e, right? I imagine the checks and so on will have to change?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:57 No.9816032
    Holy SHIT this is awesome.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:58 No.9816045

    That's true that reducing regulation in US style economies is shifting towards authoritarian companies... however that is not shifting towards freer markets. Free markets require some sort of overwatch to make sure economic agents don't restrict the markets through monopolies and other market restrictions.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:59 No.9816052
    recruiting for what?
    Is there space available? Information please
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)14:59 No.9816054
    Let us form... THE LEAGUE OF ANARCHY.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:01 No.9816078
    I'm not really sure how invasive the conversion will be--yeah, how do I failed reading comprehension. My group got through 14 months of kingdom building in one shot into the wee hours of the morning last weekend, so my mind's a little fuzzy. But since the relevant Leadership stats are unchanged in 4e, I figured it'd plug in without effort.

    Sorry if that doesn't inspire any confidence.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)15:01 No.9816080

    As was said above, the reasoning was probably that Chaos has looser enforcement of laws and allows more personal freedom. Bribes and tax evasion might be rampant, illegal drugs might be common, and the central authority has less power overall; less stable and less efficient, but everyone is generally happier with their lot.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:03 No.9816099

    It's nothing much. I just wanted to punt around as a DM. Let's not sully an awesome thread with that.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:03 No.9816101
    I can sort of buy it. By the DnD definition of 'Chaotic' I'd probably be more inclined to support an increase to stability (I suppose that's just as weird).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:03 No.9816113
    Doesn't matter now, the campaign I needed that for just got cancelled due to DM fatigue.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:03 No.9816115
    I don't think there's actually anything stopping a chaotic society from being authoritarian, as long as the leadership structure is fluid and based around mercurial power, like money.
    It's an interesting thought exercise, actually. Can something be so unrestrained that it comes all the way back around and becomes stifling?
    Regardless, this book: Rapidshare it!
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:06 No.9816142
    There certainly isn't. From the SRD:

    > Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

    > "Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.

    Pathfinder definition might differ.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:06 No.9816149
    Fucking saved!!

    My group is going to love this find!!
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)15:07 No.9816155

    "Free market" isn't really the same as freer markets. I agree with you, certainly, but people who describe themselves as 'free market' advocates will usually feel otherwise- that regulations are almost always bad and the market will sort itself out of if you leave it alone.

    Anyway, this is all looking at things from a very modern perspective. In a fledgling medieval-fantasy nation, a 'lawful' economy probably means a healthy guild structure to keep the cogs turning, while chaotic might mean wealthy individuals control much of the area's resources.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:08 No.9816180
    Ahh, that's a good point. This is before the stock trade and investment banking. Merchant of Venice stuff. Hell yeah.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)15:14 No.9816279

    A lawful tyrant believes in the Rule of Law.
    A chaotic tyrant believes in the Rule of Me.

    Chaos favors freedom over obedience, but that doesn't mean they value EVERYONE's freedom. If this were the case there would be no chaotic evil.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:16 No.9816300

    I always try to apply modern economics to my games though.


    >At the GM’s whim, using construction magic (such as a lyre of building or spells like fabricate or wall of stone) can reduce the cost of a building’s BP by 2 (minimum of 0 BP). This is a one-time reduction, regardless of the amount of magic used.

    Necromancer/Evil Cleric using an undead workforce. Fuck yeah, that was my plan before hand... and now I see that the rules will allow for it.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:16 No.9816301
    Yeah, I was agreeing with you and the other dude. It's perfectly possible for a Chaotic society to be authoritarian. I was using the SRD to back that up, not dispute it.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:17 No.9816313
    Hmmmm. A Lyre of Building is way, way more powerful than that, actually.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:18 No.9816332

    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:21 No.9816381
    How big are the hexes, OP? A mile? Ten miles?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:21 No.9816386
    >Chaotic Kingdom
    >gain Loyalty
    think Personality cult.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:22 No.9816398
    OP, can you scan this?
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)15:22 No.9816412

    It can't build people or merchandise.

    That said, "at the DMs whim" should really be taken to mean "Do whateverthefuck" (not that you need the rules to tell you that anyway).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:23 No.9816432

    I don't know, being level 5 and having 75 skeletons could be really useful. Also the skeleton workforce doesn't have any marginal cost. Once you raise them, they work for you indefinitely.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:24 No.9816438
    >Brothel (4 BP; must be adjacent to 1 house): A place to pay for companionship of any sort. Economy +1, Loyalty +2; Unrest +1.
    build lots of these to help the economy
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:24 No.9816445
    Sorry, no. This is all second-hand knowledge from my pretty-cool-guy DM.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:26 No.9816473
    Elven Quarter : Count as extra Brothel and Exotic Craftsmen
    Slave Market :
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:27 No.9816489
    well where did your DM get it? because i see no rules in the free book.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:28 No.9816502
    Warforged Bard w/ Lyre of Building at level 11, or lower with a +skill item =

    100 men working for 52560 days per year or 100 men working for 144 YEARS per year and if we assume a 16 hour workday then it's 100 men working non-stop for 96 years PER year.

    He can't fail the roll.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:28 No.9816515
    It also has no marginal cost.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:29 No.9816532
    Viral marketing AND Pathfinder? If only there was a way to DOUBLE SAGE.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:31 No.9816559
    Government Alignments:
    LE - Bureaucratic / Ruthless
    LG - Bureaucratic / Just
    CE - Charismatic / Ruthless
    CG - Charismatic / Just
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)15:33 No.9816586

    I think that's a great way to put it.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:34 No.9816608
    It shouldn't have >Bureaucratic
    No part of LE or LG mandates that.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:34 No.9816610
    LE - Bureaucratic / Ruthless: +4 Economy
    CG - Charismatic / Just: +4 Loyalty

    Makes sense to me. Chaos isn't an excuse for lolrandom.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:36 No.9816635
    The second adventure module.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:38 No.9816661
    No need to take it literally. Alignments are very generalized concepts like Good and Evil.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)15:40 No.9816685
    Sorry; slowpoking here. 12 miles across.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)15:56 No.9816864

    That's true, bureaucratic is a word with mostly negative connotations. Can you think of a better word?

    What he's referring to, I'm pretty sure, is the size, power, complexity, and codification of the government body. A "bureaucratic" government is full of unimportant bureaucrats who enforce and arbitrate according to law and tradition, and who would not be important save for their place as agents of The Government, which is respected. This is the opposite of a "charismatic" government composed of a few celebrity figures, who rule according to whim, and who are obeyed because they are admired as individuals.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:02 No.9816932
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:03 No.9816950
    Bump for archive so we can access this till there's a pdf available.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:04 No.9816960
    I've already archived it.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:04 No.9816968
    You mean Authoritarian? How about Hierarchical? It implies order of some kind without specifying type of order.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:06 No.9816988
    No, I don't mean authoritarian. While a LE executive would be very likely to be authoritarian, a LG one would probably be authoritative.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)16:08 No.9817004

    They're both based on authority, though. One can wield as much authority as the other; it's just a matter of where that authority derives from.

    Offhand I would probably say Charismatic/Legalistic.

    Occorse, this is all for fun, as "law/chaos/good/evil' work fine as shorthands provided everyone is in the same page as to what they mean in this context.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:10 No.9817019
    Yeah, Legalistic is a better fit.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:17 No.9817101
    I thought of that but discarded it because it confused me on how to fit America in it. Is she CG or LG? Is North korea CE or LE?

    >inb4 nation align pics. we don't need that.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:19 No.9817122
    >real world
    >9 point alignment system

    Still, America would probably be LN. Most nations in modern-day earth would be L or N.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:26 No.9817231
    Agree with what you are saying but using C to represent strongman regimes.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:28 No.9817252
    Sure. North Korea for instance, should probably be CE. Although almost everything in the society points towards Lawful, the critical point is that said Law derives from the whims of its dictatorial leader - CE.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)16:31 No.9817305

    All governments have a lot of both elements. Charismatic authority figures try to cement their power by creating a legalistic structure to stabilize their nation; one which give their position legalistic legitimacy ("I'm your fuhrer"; "I'm your chairman"; "I'm the president of Iraq", etc).

    Likewise, legalistic governments will always be moved by the power of the charismatic leaders who take office.

    Where republics fit there is an interesting question; basically, they use a legalistic structure to create a durable charisma-powered government; a system where one personality-cult figure backed by the adoration of the masses can replace another, and can do so without revolution and bloodshed. Likewise, they're very legalistic, but in an amorphous sort of way (they're made to change without being violated). Ultimately that's probably what "Neutral" is for, and probably why 'neutral' gets bonuses to stability.

    Someone could make the case that America is Chaotic, and they would do so by appealing to the other values traditionally associated with it (individualism, freedom, etc). Which I think is legit too.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)16:34 No.9817367

    North Korea is a very authoritarian government- which is to say, it leveraged both legalism and personality-cults to gain as much legitimacy and authority as possible. Kim has done everything he possibly could to cement his own power (like his father before him).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:39 No.9817458
    Perhaps L should represent a governing process, a procedure, rules, a Constitution, traditions that governance has to fit around? A Charismatic regime would simply do what the leader deemed popular and desirable.

    Modern states like America are too complex to be bound within the simplistic 9 alignment systems. We will have to wait for the "Epic Alignments Sourcebook" to stat out the US complete with 9000000 pages of case studies and precedents
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:41 No.9817481
    >Epic alignments

    I am intrigued. Would an 'epic alignment' be one wherein the principle is taken beyond human (or alternatively, to deific) maximums?

    So you could have:


    For the 'good' alignments?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:44 No.9817518

    I would stick with NK and Mao being CE because they can make and break any laws they want. Modern China is obviously closer to LE or LN for that +4 Economy, it has more disparate interest groups and internal struggles to shape policy rather then public ones.
    Modern state should probably have multiple alignments.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)16:44 No.9817520
    >Perhaps L should represent a governing process, a procedure, rules, a Constitution, traditions that governance has to fit around? A Charismatic regime would simply do what the leader deemed popular and desirable.

    That's pretty close to what we've been saying.

    >too complex to be bound within the simplistic 9 alignment systems
    You have no idea how alignments work on the most basic conceptual level.
    Or, hell, how categorization works in general. Complex things don't defy categorization, they're just harder to categorize (and, more importantly, there's a greater danger of ignoring said complexity because you think you understand the category).
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)16:56 No.9817668
    OP if i could i would suck your dick
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:15 No.9817949
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    once you starting talking about farms, roads, and mines, I knew this reminded me of something.

    does this book include variations on the rules for different races? Like how a dwarf empire would have an easier time in mountainous terrain or something?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:17 No.9817984
    Not to my knowledge, no. I'm assuming it's because the rules were basically written for a specific map but were left vague enough to be expanded upon to reuse the mechanic.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:24 No.9818071
    ITT: DnD + HoMM
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:25 No.9818085
    Where the heck do I even start looking for a copy of this?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:25 No.9818087
    OP, I love you so much.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:28 No.9818127
    Is there any reason for dwarves to even have mountaineering? Yeah yeah miners yadda yadda, but if you think about it they live in cities with streets. Only ranger/prospector dwarves should have easier time in the wilds.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:34 No.9818232
    Idea: 'Focus' for a city. Say, 'ranger citadel' - all wilderness difficulties are reduced, but balanced by an appropriate penalty.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:38 No.9818309
    How do you save web pages for offline use again?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:41 No.9818355
    Right Click.
    'Save Page As'
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:41 No.9818358
    Part of it is that many of America's laws exist to prevent more laws from being made.

    And that kinda pushes it to chaos very slightly.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)17:41 No.9818367

    I think the point isn't that dwarfs are better at living in mountains, but that they are better at turning mountains into cities and living in those.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:41 No.9818370
    In Pathfinder, a Chaotic Neutral society is more Stable and just as Loyal as a Lawful Good society.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:42 No.9818376
    Derp I realized riht after I said it how stupid it sounded.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:42 No.9818387
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:43 No.9818389
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:44 No.9818403
    There is no lawful good societies. There are lawful neutral ones and varying states of corruption and apathy after that.
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)17:45 No.9818421

    Read the thread, bro.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:45 No.9818427
    CN - Charismatic / Pragmatic
    LG - Hierarchical / Just
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:46 No.9818440
    now that would just be your opinion about the real world
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:48 No.9818470
    How is CN charismatic if it is supposed to be stable?
    It could be individualistic and stable if the majority of the population were not dicks like in the real world.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:49 No.9818473
    Because social systems built on ruthless (Pragmatic) cults of personality (Charismatic) are so much more stable than ones with established Hierarchies and functional Justice..
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:49 No.9818477
    Personally I'd swap the chaotic/lawful bonuses. These rules aren't realistic anyway, so associated chaos with economic deregulation and unbridled growth and law with loyal citizenry makes sense to me.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)17:53 No.9818529
    Maybe just add that if there is a change of leadership in chaotic society there will be struggle as some people cling on the person of old ruler and won't accept the new guy? Lawful ones would be ok if the change was be made by the book.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)18:04 No.9818673
    Someone asked for this before, i found it after a while on google


    There's not all the info the OP posted, but i don't know what book i should take that from.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)18:08 No.9818736
    now all we need is Kingmaker 2-River Runs Red
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)18:18 No.9818928
    why hasn't anyone put that up on /rs/ yet, it's been out for about a month or 2
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)18:53 No.9819658
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    bump with gnoll crime and punishment
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)18:56 No.9819701
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    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)19:37 No.9820419
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    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)19:47 No.9820590
    Anyone come up with a campaign premise using these mechanics yet?
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)20:04 No.9820940

    "Pragmatic" doesn't mean "ruthless". Pragmatic means that the people in charge are primarily concerned with making sure that the government, whatever it is, continues to function. Such a government is neither hampered by idealism nor destabilized by ruthlessness- it does whatever works at the moment. That's why neutral governments get the stability bonus.

    Your problems is that you are thinking of CN as "the crazy alignment", rather than simply being a TN government with individualistic leanings.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:18 No.9821193
    Gnoll rape? srly?
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)20:19 No.9821207

    It's not rape if you're a gnoll.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:20 No.9821218
    wait, how can there be no punishment for rape? Is the victim expected to dole out the punishment themselves?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:21 No.9821228
    only if the gnoll is doing the raping
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:21 No.9821234
    I think the assumption is that a slave doesn't have the right to refuse and any gnoll weak enough they couldn't fight back deserved it.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:22 No.9821248
    if they're willing to take the ten lashings
    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)20:26 No.9821320

    Gnoll women don't have it QUITE as bad as gnoll slaves, but they still have it pretty bad. If you aren't either a.) pregnant or b.) a priestess of lamashtu by a certain age they kill and eat you.

    In most cases, rape is just a friendly contribution to the fertility of the band. Welcome to CE society.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:34 No.9821475
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    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:38 No.9821548
    Could an exiled CE Gnoll be bro among humans?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:39 No.9821562
    it's possible
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:41 No.9821587
    Wait... chaotic gets a loyalty bonus?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)20:53 No.9821763
    yes we already covered that move along
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)21:00 No.9821874
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    >> I like alignments !!8CZJ7ujbGe4 05/14/10(Fri)21:06 No.9821950

    Absolutely, yup.
    Mostly likely as part of a band of brigands, criminal gang, adventuring party, etc. Anywhere where there is a clear distinction between 'band' and 'not-band', and where the band is cool with him being as horrible as he wants to not-banders.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)21:13 No.9822029
    Can we get a pdf of this?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)21:15 No.9822053
    see >>9818673
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)21:31 No.9822250
    aleady have that, its not in there, its in book two
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)21:55 No.9822570
    bumping for pdf
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)22:16 No.9822821
    i don't think anyone is willing to put the pdf up for torrent or download
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)22:26 No.9822990
    i am glad for these rules, one of my players wants to start building a kingdom once we beat the main quest
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)22:32 No.9823092
    i wonder if your leadership score give you a bonus in any thing?
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)22:51 No.9823366
    > I'm a greedy shit who expects Paizo to pay its writers, artists and editing staff out monopoly money so I can have quality products for free
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)22:55 No.9823432
    All well and good, now I have to check for the torrent when I get home.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)22:58 No.9823476
    In two words, fuck you, I buy the physical copies when I actually have work. In the interim, I do, in fact, obtain copies as previews. I bought the core rulebook and the bestiary, already; this will be the next one I get.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:28 No.9823988

    There is no rape in batshit crazy muslim countries, just women being sluts. Fucking theocracies.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:31 No.9824040
    gnolls don't belong to any theocratic society
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:31 No.9824051

    Also some people are unlucky and their local shop has not gotten a copy of this yet (like this anon). PDF = preview.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:33 No.9824080

    Was referring to Middle Eastern countries where the girls that get raped get punished for it, while the guys that do the raping get congratulated on teaching those girls a lesson. It was a tangent to the whole, no punishment for gnoll rape thing.
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:36 No.9824149
    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:39 No.9824196
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    >> Anonymous 05/14/10(Fri)23:50 No.9824378
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    >> Anonymous 05/15/10(Sat)00:13 No.9824847
    any more awesome Gnoll pics?

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