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  • File : 1274053578.jpg-(87 KB, 385x500, Blue Sunny Day.jpg)
    87 KB Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/16/10(Sun)19:46 No.9860177  
    How would a version of the WoD where all of the supernaturals had been revealed to the eyes of humanity work?

    Pic somewhat related.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:47 No.9860187
    The masquerade would be broken.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:48 No.9860220
    supernaturals would become extinct very quickly
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:49 No.9860234
    Humans go WHAT THE SHIT

    Supernaturals get raped. Sin-Eaters and Mages would still appear though, since you can't really get rid of those.
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)19:52 No.9860276
    We would go farther 'underground'. Garou who can blend in with human society would have to teach our feral kin to camouflage themselves better.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:52 No.9860279
    Oh no, what are you planning now Exalted?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:53 No.9860298
    You think you can stop fucking werewolves? TEN FOOT TALL FUCKING DEATH MACHINES that run in PACKS? Yeah have fun with that
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:53 No.9860306
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:54 No.9860310
    Apparently you aren't aware of guns.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:55 No.9860320


    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:55 No.9860328
    Wasn't this what the Monty Cook d20 version was about, sorta?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:57 No.9860349
    There is a reason the masquerade exists. It's because humans as a race/group are fucking DANGEROUS, even if individually they are weaker than supernaturals.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:57 No.9860354

    This is poking a hornet's nest with a stick


    this is more like it
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)19:57 No.9860363
    You can inject me with as much of it as you'd like while I'm in breed form. I'll laugh when you murder thousands of your own in your witch hunt.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:58 No.9860367
    I'd have something to do on Friday nights.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:58 No.9860371
    thats why during the silver reaction testing you have several dozen guns pointed at them
    >> sage sage 05/16/10(Sun)19:58 No.9860377
    >WoD thread
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:59 No.9860382
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    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it."
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:59 No.9860386
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    Humanity overpowers the supernatural through sheer force of numbers, and so the supernatural banish themselves into demiplanes around the world, cordoned off by borders forged from myriad magics.

    One such example is Gensokyo.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/16/10(Sun)19:59 No.9860393
    So, according to everyone, war is inevitable?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)19:59 No.9860394
    I would pay hard cash to see "Werewolves vs. Tanks". Hell, get Michael Bay on it, put his 'talents' to good use.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:00 No.9860404
    protip: woof react to silver, humans dont

    the likelihood of a false positive is so laughably marginal that it can be just straight up ignored
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:00 No.9860408
    How long ago has this happened? Is the revelation fresh on everyone's mind or is it something that happened while Grandad was alive?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:00 No.9860419
    It just happened. Like, 35 minutes ago.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:01 No.9860421
    rolled 3 = 3

    No, you'd die horribly. Mages become even more powerful, start feuding with various demons for supreme mastery over the universe.
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)20:01 No.9860423
    Maybe mankind would choose to disbelieve. They're capable of accepting false religions, why not this?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:02 No.9860445
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    They'd have had to have known all along, I'd think. Or at least at some point before globalization so the backlash doesn't mean "OH GOD GENOCIDE AHARGARBLE-"


    There's actually a Gift that renders werewolves completely, utterly, beyond even supernatural detection - mortal.

    It even sends regeneration back to normal, human levels and silver does nothing.

    The Iron Masters developed it, clever bastards that they are.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:03 No.9860474
    rolled 20 = 20

    No. Violence is, because vast social change always causes that in some form or another. War is unlikely, as that requires two organized forces going up against each other. Supernatural beings are far from being able to organize themselves in a millitary fashion.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:04 No.9860477
    Because that's not the premise of the thread. I'm sure many would disbelieve, sure, but this scenario, there's something big going down
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:04 No.9860490
    Not only would war be inevitable, but Mages would be completely fucked over, because you could no longer fool the Abyss within a Sleeping soul.

    Luna's children would also be at a disadvantage.

    Vampires would have no choice but to kill humans or die.

    >Werewolves can blend in
    Yeah. About as well as vampires.

    Werewolves stand out like a sore thumb. Especially at higher Primal Urge ratings.
    Also, silver, yes.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:04 No.9860491
    >false religions

    Oh boy

    What faggoty religion do you go with dog fucker

    My god is the only god you piece of shit.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:05 No.9860500
    With vampires, yes. With werewolves, probably. With mages, maybe, but they can hide easily. Same with Changelings. Prometheans would probably be wiped out, unless some government project takes an interest in them. I'm not that familiar with Sin-Eaters, but I don't think there's an obvious way to tell they're not human, either.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:05 No.9860506
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    Unless you have some EXCEPTIONALLY CAREFUL reveal, then yeah.

    You'd need - effectively - multiple world governments to reveal it and in SUCH A WAY that frames them in a good light.

    Y'know. Mage superdetectives, werewolf supersoldiers, vampire CIA, Sin-Eater firefighters. You'd need a reveal that says "these are heroes, not monsters!"

    Otherwise you get the gut reaction to competition - destroy it.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:06 No.9860520
    >There's actually a Gift that renders werewolves completely, utterly, beyond even supernatural detection - mortal.
    Kenning! Mage Sight!
    "Give me sight beyond sight!"

    I may not know what you are, but I know you're not human.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:06 No.9860524
    Supernatural whatsamagubbit would be quickly obliterated by the unstoppable juggernaut that is human military.

    I don't give a fuck how magical you are, tank beats vampire.
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:07 No.9860537
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:08 No.9860545
    Changelings would still be around

    and their lot would likely improve if the general populace truly knew what happened to them
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:08 No.9860546
    "Are you even suppose to be here today?"
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:08 No.9860549
    rolled 5 = 5

    Unless you are a very old and powerful vampire. But even if he wins, so what? We can always build another tank.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:08 No.9860554
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    Whether it's a werewolf, a vampire, a changeling, or a mage, NOTHING can stand up to the cutting power of a greatsword built by Cold Steel.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:09 No.9860558
    flamethrower beats celerity
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:09 No.9860562
    You are when that gift is active.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:09 No.9860569
    That's why god gave us flamethrowers.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:09 No.9860573
    going to need the exact name of the gift and which book its in
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:10 No.9860577

    Vampires are blood-sucking parasitic corpses.
    Werewolves turn into horrific killing machines.
    Mages are demi-gods who have been playing us for fools from the start.
    Changelings are creepy symbols of an alien realm that views us as toys, they're probably still in league with the Fae.
    Prometheans are just... disquieting.
    Sin-Eaters are dead but not dead but dead. That's just wrong.

    Damn straight there'll be war. And humanity will win. And those supernaturals who can will go into hiding as deep as they can, or alternatively, some of them might be brought into service by the government, who could definitely use their special Talents.
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:10 No.9860585

    I think Fire does aggravated damage to... basically every supernatural.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:10 No.9860586
    Not when that Vampire is fast enough to dodge a bullet.
    Also, most tanks rely on sensors, and vampires give blurred readings.
    Not to mention the numerous ways that other supernaturals can avoid being killed at high levels.
    Mages can just deflect the missile (alter trajectory, yo). They could also blow it before it hits them. They could get the Spirit of the missile to not kill them, for a price. They could go faster than the missile.

    A Sin-eater could actually control the missile telekinetically.

    A clever Changeling could offer to blow something else up to keep the missile from hurting it.

    A Promethean could... stand there and take it. Seriously. Fucking monsters.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:10 No.9860593
    >Changelings are creepy symbols of an alien realm that views us as toys, they're probably still in league with the Fae.
    >Prometheans are just... disquieting.
    >Sin-Eaters are dead but not dead but dead. That's just wrong.

    These three are ridiculous.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:10 No.9860594
    if changelings got revealed it'd be a matter of months before you start having them show up on Oprah and Dr. Phil talking about the true fae raped their souls
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:11 No.9860600
    Vampires: KILL IT WITH FIRE
    Werewolves: MAYBE okay if it's just the Forsaken, but the moment one Death Rages or the Pure roll up it's KILL IT WITH SILVER
    Mages: Paranoia, but you can't really stop Awakenings. The Abyss, meanwhile, would probably eat reality from all the Paradox.
    Changelings: Either KILL IT WITH IRON if you get maniacs, or sheltering if their plight is brought to attention. Either way, world paranoia would skyrocket due to fetches and motherfucking True Fae.
    Sin-Eaters: Crossing Over with John Edwards, only it actually works. Once again, very much depends on how each sin-eater's geist swings.
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:11 No.9860616
    Prometheans would be the most fucked by the blowing of the Masquerade, though.

    They already naturally attract hatred through Disquiet - with their origin being an open secret, they'd run into Disquiet alarmingly fast. They might honestly serve as the spark to the entire fucking powder keg of human-supernatural relations.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:12 No.9860627
    And don't forget mummies. They're goddamned unstoppable.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:12 No.9860628
    I actually did this.

    It was a post apocaliptic game, and the players were living in a cave outside of the city. Then a changeling comes along, and, just for shits and giggles, turns all of them into different supernaturals when they are alone.

    Then once all of them are together, it told them "Intresting, you are manage to keep up your disguise of humanity quite well." then left.

    Hilarity ensued as each player thought they were the only one, and would get raped if the player found out.

    Made even better because, in one campaign or another, each player HAD worked for tthee enemy.
    Shit was funny as hell when it reached the point where they were fighting to the death, and the werewolf transformed... followed by the vampire realizing he could rip people apart, and the mage finding out its safe for him to cast spells, etc.

    My players still can't figure out if that was a major asshole move, or the best "big reveal" they were ever a part of. Its probably a little of both.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:13 No.9860631

    Think Prometheans can buy enough powers to get healed by fire.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:13 No.9860637
    >Mage Sight detects the presence of magic
    >Gifts are magic
    So yes, you can tell there's magic being used on someone who is using magic to appear Human.
    And Kenning cuts through illusions.

    Oh yeah... fire. Prometheans would die.

    >Sin-Eaters are dead but not dead but dead. That's just wrong.
    Actually, they're wholly alive. The only way to tell what they are is the presence of Plasm in their blood. Which isn't really all that much. You'd need a blood test to tell, and even then, it's just a foreign compound, not anything different about their blood itself.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:13 No.9860638
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    >>stand out like a sore thumb

    Bitches don't know about my Iron Masters.

    Living in human cities, blending seemlessly.


    That actually doesn't work. I'm trying to dig the actual page up but this renders you COMPLETELY HUMAN for a day. Nothing - not scent, not gifts, not Supernal or Arcadian magic, will reveal you one of Luna's.

    Because the Rage fades off and the flesh and spirit briefly seperate. Like I said - even regen becomes human.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:14 No.9860658
    a changeling isn't capable of doing that (it might be if you are using otherkin: the faggoting, in which case you are a faggot)
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:14 No.9860665
    nope. Electricity heals them, but fire is pretty-much a universal "oh fuck" for WOD supernaturals.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:14 No.9860671
    > with their origin being an open secret, they'd run into Disquiet alarmingly fast.
    Knowing someone is one of the Created doesn't mean that Disquiet is worse.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:15 No.9860681
    Hey, SoS, how do you kill a bale hound with 8 dots in fucking everything if you're a TSF Valk member with 5 dots of status, pro. training (military [General: US Army]) and built like a soldier type character?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:15 No.9860683
    i highly doubt you'd be able to keep up with repeat usings of the gift
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:16 No.9860687

    Fire does special things against vampires and prometheans only. However, fire hurts like hell to anybody, so it's a good fallback, unless you're dealing with a Mage with Forces, a fire Elemental Changeling, a Sin Eater with the Pyre-Flame key, or a Werewolf who could just regen it back and laugh.

    So, uh. Just vampires and prometheans, essentially.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:16 No.9860689
    Then we switch to good ol' polygraphs.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:16 No.9860690
    >Living in human cities, blending seemlessly.
    Yeah, if you call being that angry guy seemlessly. The higher your Primal Urge, the more 'off' you are.

    And again, the Gift is magic. Whether you're human or not, a Mage will still tell you've got magic on you.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:16 No.9860694
    About vampires dodging bullets:

    not all of them can do that and those who can will soon find out militaries over the world have been aching to use the heavy stuff

    Dodge a bullet, deploy tank

    Dodge tank, deploy missle

    dodge missle deploy nuke
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:16 No.9860696
    napalm burns at a high enough temperature that a woofs regen wouldn't be able to handle it
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:17 No.9860702
    It's not an illusion. You're ACTUALLY human when you activate that Gift. That's the point.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:17 No.9860709
    Why would you ask him about mechanics? He doesn't actually play the game.

    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:17 No.9860713
    Right, but think about this. They know Prometheans exist. They can point to the fact that, when one sticks around for long enough, shit gets wacky and the land itself begins to die, that having one nearby is a goddamned catastrophe.

    You have to figure they'd be even more outcasts than they are now... hell, they'd probably get run off before Disquiet even had a chance to manifest. Especially the ones that give off radiation.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:17 No.9860714
    They would have talents that would make people jealous, they wouldn't last long.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:17 No.9860720
    what if they read your memory asstard!?
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:18 No.9860729
    Deploy nuke, feed Zeke.

    Fucking Prometheans.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:18 No.9860736
    Don't forget that Celerity also eats Blood Points like a motherfucker.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:18 No.9860738
    Male vampires are hunted down en masse and gang raped by Twilight fans.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:18 No.9860742

    Changelings and Sin-Eaters are the most likely to survive I'd say. But still, maybe I can elaborate.

    So Changelings. Sure, they might get some sympathy from the more liberal and inclusionist parts of humanity, but they're still Fae creatures.

    "Okay, so you got kidnapped by this alien creature of unimaginable cruelty and power, and then you escaped, only you've become kind of like it. So you're kind of alien and cruel and powerful. Stay the hell away from my kids".

    Also, Fetches are going to be paranoia-fuel for everyone.

    "Is someone you know acting a little odd recently? He may be a duplicate made to replace the original made from scaps and twigs and he will go berserk and kill everyone you love!"

    Prometheans have disquiet. Their very existence is abomination. Nature sickens and people are changed for the worse when a Promethean moves into town. Maybe they'd get put into Camps so they can't move around and affect lots of people, but I'm not sure how that would work, not being too familiar with Promethean.

    Sin-Eaters are dead. If the mechanics of how they come back to life were understood, the whole "Someone else dies everytime I do" will make them pretty unpopular. Still, Sin-Eaters are probably the ones most likely to survive.

    "Sure, we died and came back, but we can help your relatives pass on. We can stop that ghost who's been bothering you. We're pretty cool people really."
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:19 No.9860751
    I'm relatively sure that anything that could survive the radiation dies by the shockwave, flames or anything else the nuke does.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:19 No.9860753
    I'm going to need to see the page, then.

    Mage Sight can detect any sort of supernatural ability, except maybe that one Prime ability that works specifically to block Mage Sight, but I think it was said that even that shows up, but more as "something supernatural is going on, I just can't tell where."

    I'm really into the Unseen Sense. I was looking up the errata related to it. It can tell you when anything is being used, just not what's being used. As long as it's magic.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/16/10(Sun)20:20 No.9860759
    >put into Camps so they can't move around
    Yeah, I'd say you don't know a lot about Promethean. If they don't move around, they kill the land around them.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:20 No.9860762
    The thing with Changelings, Mages, and Bound are that you can't really "stop" more from being made. It's just something that happens totally independantly of anything people have control over.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:20 No.9860769
    The point is that there is no magic being used. Magic was used to make the magic temporarily go away. It's not suppressed, shit is gone.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:21 No.9860777
    rolled 20 = 20

    Even if it does, a Mage can still find you. It just takes a little more work. Magic to detect people who have killed other people. Then examine them with Mind Magic to see if any of them consider themself a Werewolf.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:21 No.9860781
    Fun Story my werewolf players and a pure pack squared of with an Apache, things did not go well.
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:21 No.9860782
    >I know how to fix the Disquiet problem.
    >We'll put all the Prometheans in one area and force them to stay there!


    Any sort of permanent encampment, assuming the land didn't immediately become some sort of horrific radioactive wasteland, would be an ENORMOUS beacon to Pandorans. That would eat anything between them and their target. The only remotely plausible way to handle it would be a sort of permanent Trail of Tears, a roving "camp" of Prometheans on an endless death-march.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:21 No.9860789
    but maybe if there's a limit to how far this effect extends they could curtain off a good fifty square miles (or whatever the limit is) and make all the Prometheans live there.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:21 No.9860794
    You can kill every single one alive and set up a giant detection network to see if any shows up.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:22 No.9860797

    >Actually, they're wholly alive. The only way to tell what they are is the presence of Plasm in their blood. Which isn't really all that much. You'd need a blood test to tell, and even then, it's just a foreign compound, not anything different about their blood itself.

    Maybe I should have continued to say "But they're not dead, but they're dead" for a while longer.

    Sure, to us as dispassionate observers, or to Sin-Eaters themselves, they're alive. But they did die. And that's what's' going to matter to the man on the street. They died, and they came back with a death-spirit in their heads that wants them to cause more of their type of death.

    That's creepy.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:22 No.9860805
    It spreads.

    If a Promethean stays in one place, it's Wasteland would engulf the planet.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:23 No.9860808
    I really don't think Changelings are objectionable enough for first world people to start genociding them.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:23 No.9860815
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    >kill every single Sin-Eater
    >Literally cannot die if there's someone else around to take the fall, and go more and more insane the more you kill them
    >Sin-Eaters are The Nameless One
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:23 No.9860818

    Okay, consider me proven wrong.

    Could this be an acceptable loss though? If a set area is affected, surely it's better to lose one big area, than to have loads of little ones moving around?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:23 No.9860825
    Trannies are creepy. Go kill one and see what the cops do to you.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:24 No.9860829
    Going full out versus vampires would be a pretty retarded and self defeating concept.

    First off, bombing the shit out of cities to get rid of vamps is doing more harm than good.

    Second off, it'd make the line of Belial's Brood vastly more popular, and/or increase the draugr population heavily. And of course, draugr aren't limited by the usual embrace rate; they can mass embrace lemures (vampire zombies), even ones of month old dead bodies, who can in turn gang-embrace at will.

    And finally, plenty of vampires can remain undetectable indefinitely (Obfuscate), mind control people, or even possess them.

    As a result, humanity declaring war on vampires might reduce the latter's population, or increase it.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:24 No.9860833

    >>9860818 here.

    Okay, scratch that idea.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:24 No.9860837
    You can totally permanently kill a Bound. Just cut off his/her head or burn the body to ashes or something.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:24 No.9860838
    one way ticket to the moon, would that work?
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:25 No.9860843
    Changelings themselves are fine. But consider the implications. First off, they're not human anymore. Not really. Second off, their whole backstory is "Impossibly powerful beings with inscrutable, alien motivations replaced me with a perfect duplicate that none of you could tell the difference, and they like to prey on human children."

    The paranoia, the concept that ANYONE could be a fetch, would be enormous. And there's no way mankind as a whole could handle meeting or confronting the True Fae - their minds would shatter.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:25 No.9860857
    No different, really, than the out of body experiences people have when they die on the operating table only to come back.
    Those might have been people on the verge of becoming Bound, who were saved in time by the doctors.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:25 No.9860859

    Trannies are odd. But most people would agree that they're not far more likely to kill other people and they aren't formed by making a deal with a death-god so that it can ride around in a living vessel for a while.

    The difference is pretty huge. And the cops will feel it too.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:25 No.9860860
    >putting Prometheans in concentration camps

    You guys are doing it wrong. Hitler made the same mistake at first.

    What you want are death camps.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:25 No.9860861
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    That's the problem. Wastelands just keep intensifying. Not to mention that a bunch of Prometheans (who are absurdly rare to begin with) in one spot really would be just like a gigantic EAT AT JOES sign for Pandorans in the joint. They'd do anything they could to get to the giant buffet. Imagine telling a fat guy there was literally a mountain made of prosciutto and kobe beef a few towns over, and it was free and all-you-can-eat. Same sort of reaction.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:26 No.9860875
    If they start mass raising the dead I'm pretty sure goverments would cut their losses, allow all people to evacuate the city on foot at day and then nuke it.
    >> Dr.Gradamit !ayvek5nFcU 05/16/10(Sun)20:26 No.9860877
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    >> Shas'o R'myr !!TZikiEEr0tg 05/16/10(Sun)20:27 No.9860882
    True Blood.
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)20:27 No.9860889
    Yeah... And of course, the problem is, on the way, the Pandorans would eat everything else.

    So this hypothetical neckbeard has a literally infinite appetite and enough time to stop at every buffet along the way.

    Except instead of beef, it's people's souls.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:27 No.9860891

    Wrong. Sin-Eaters don't need a body to come back. They can be completely atomized and their Geist can bring them back with some plasm and a stick-to-it attitude.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:27 No.9860893
    I dunno, individuals have met and fought off Fae before. Very rarely, of course.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:27 No.9860895
    Over the course of a ridiculous period of time, yeah.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:28 No.9860898
    >allow all people to evacuate the city on foot at day

    This is key, this is why vampires are fucked in a war with humans. They are completely crippled half the time.

    Otherwise human advantages in terms of numbers would be a non-issue.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:28 No.9860899
    Mild amusement and occasional hilarity ensues!
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:28 No.9860907
    I love that show.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:29 No.9860915
    I think that knowledge of spiteful, malicious gods that are literally out to get humanity like the True Fae would really fuck with us as a whole.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:29 No.9860916
    I think the problem is that the OP's post wasn't well though through and there wasn't really enough information to work with.

    Like most of Exalted's plans.

    So, how sudden was this revelation? Did it occur instantaneously? Or was it allowed to seep out gradually? How much was revealed? Are Changeling's just "People who went to faerie land and came back a little bit faerie", or does the average man on the street know everything about Changelings and their powers and what the Fae are?
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:29 No.9860927
    That's what I told her.

    She didn't listen to me.

    You sure?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:30 No.9860936
    >Become a mage
    >Take dots in that hollowed area which gives you a free house
    >Hide out in your cozy study room while everyone searches for you

    Works for Changelings too
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:30 No.9860952
    That is one gay show. Like vampires or hate them, but the main reason vampires are interesting probably has something to do with that they DRINK PEOPLE'S BLOOD.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:31 No.9860955
    Actually, another person in our group already had this idea. It was sort of a less derpy Shadowrun.
    Unfortunately, he's at work, and won't be able to explain it.

    Also, he says he never made a thread because he couldn't spin it, and if I made a thread before him, every post would be asking if there was rape.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:31 No.9860958
    living in the hedge isnt entirely that safe
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:31 No.9860959
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    >>Yeah, if you call being that angry guy seemlessly. The higher your Primal Urge, the more 'off' you are.

    Whilst werewolves are angry, they are by no means required to *show* the anger. People can be firestorms of rage and still look calm. Anyone who's worked in jobs that put you in contact with the most frustrating elements of humanity (customer service, waitresses, etc. - jobs were being able to smile and say "No problem" when you want to say "Fuck you, asshole" is vital ) could tell you this.

    >>And again, the Gift is magic. Whether you're human or not, a Mage will still tell you've got magic on you

    Except that unlike Mage spells, Gifts don't linger on people.

    It'd be an *entirely* ineffective Gift if any of your foes could look in the Twilight and see it lingering on you. With you now unable to Change or even regenerate from the wounds you receive.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:31 No.9860964
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:33 No.9860982

    Aww FUCK I didn't even think about the Seers.

    The moment the Masquerade broke and the Seers realized there was nothing they could do about it they'd totally throw subtlety to the wind and go into Bond villain levels of trying to take over the world for the Exarchs. The only thing that would stop them is their own groups fighting amongst each other to decide how to do it.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:33 No.9861000
    They may not show their anger, but there's still that [Primal Urge]/2 penalty to your Social Rolls.

    And I still want to see the text for this Gift. Because it sure sounds like it's lingering. If it has a duration, that's lingering.

    And Mage Sight is a little more complicated than "I see you're a Werewolf."
    It'd be more like "Huh. Anyone keep hearing a dog bark? I swear, it happens every time Joe walks in the room."
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:34 No.9861016
    The Exarchs already do own the world. I imagine that the Seers would continue doing what they always do with the Panopticon and War Ministry (can't remember the name) getting way more powerful
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/16/10(Sun)20:35 No.9861031
    I had an idea that involved the Pentacle, if they were able to find proof of the Seers' true mission, presenting themselves as allies to humanity in general (which might not be hard to do against a group who's mission is to keep humanity as repressed and useless as possible), thus possibly improving the lot of mages in this new world.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:37 No.9861059
    >Because it sure sounds like it's lingering. If it has a duration, that's lingering.


    Pretend that magic is a dirty diaper. The gift in question TAKES THE DIRTY DIAPER OFF AND TOSSES IT OUT THE WINDOW. It doesn't cover it up with deodorant. Mage sight wouldn't do shit.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:37 No.9861062
    Goddamnit, Exalted, do you know ANY other setting?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:39 No.9861090
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    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:40 No.9861116
    So it just takes YOUR SOUL, and throws it out the window?

    Alright then...

    If it takes it off, and it's off forever, I could see that.
    But if it takes it off, then puts the dirty diaper back on, that sounds like putting on deodorant.

    This is why I want to see the text of the Gift.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/16/10(Sun)20:40 No.9861120
    >implying I wasn't replying to a post talking about Seers
    >implying that Supernal cosmology doesn't unite the whole of WoD
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:41 No.9861129
    Page 111, The Rage

    Hide the Curse (•••••)
    Mastering the most powerful elements of change and adapting to one’s environment, this Gift from Sagrim-Ur allows a werewolf to mask himself completely among the human herd. For a single day, the werewolf has the ability to suppress his own curse, living from sunrise until sunset as a perfectly normal
    human. Of course, with no fear of Death Rage and no Primal Urge making humans uncomfortable also comes the inability to shapeshift and use any Gifts, so werewolves should be very careful when they use this power. This Gift only functions during the day; the power of Luna over her children renders any attempts to use this Gift past nightfall completely impossible.
    Cost: 3 Essence
    Dice Pool: Harmony
    Action: Instant
    Roll Results
    Dramatic Failure: The Gift fails, and the Lunes of the character’s choir are angered by her presumption. At the Storyteller’s discretion, the character may suffer minor social penalties in dealings with the Lunes associated with her choir, and is unable to use the Gift again for a full lunar cycle.
    Failure: The Gift simply fails.
    Success: The character loses the ability to channel any of her supernatural abilities, including shapeshifting, until nightfall. *****The character is considered completely mortal in all respects******, lacking even regeneration and Primal Urge.
    Exceptional Success: No further effect.

    I'm not the other anon but as an ST I'd rule that that would work against Mage Sight. You literally turn into a mortal.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:41 No.9861138
    I said does she KNOW any setting.

    Sometimes I think the only books she's read are the Silver Ladder and Seers books.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:43 No.9861159
    to be fair, Seers was a hella good book.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:44 No.9861197
    The way it uses the phrases "suppresses" and "masks" means it would be the same Contested Roll rules as Obfuscate versus Auspex. Or Mage Sight versus Unseen Spy.

    Mage Sight is not what I've been referring to. I actually meant a Mage's Unseen Sense. My bad.

    But this would just be Mage Sight rolling at a penalty equal to the Successes.
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)20:45 No.9861207
    If I were a hot-shot hunter with access to an arsenal of toys going after some 'elder' of the pure, I would use my advantages against their disadvantages. The balehound has to sleep somewhere, and have some connections with other of its kind. Knock down each of it's safe havens and kill off its weaker friends and then corner it. When you finally confront it directly, make sure you're ready to put down a cornered spirit-warrior who's going to claw your face off if you flinch. I would be disappointed if this hunter-champion didn't have enough silver rounds to start a yuppie jewelry store at a city-mall and enough assault rifles to start a small war.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:46 No.9861227

    >Religionfag forgets to capitalize the word "god"

    On the other hand, I choose not to because I'm not religious.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:47 No.9861240
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    You're still thinking things far too small.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:47 No.9861242
    >The character is considered completely mortal in all respects
    Even if you succeeded with Mage Sight, all you'd see is a mortal.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:48 No.9861261
    Except that AS A POWER it can be CONTESTED BY OTHER POWERS.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/16/10(Sun)20:51 No.9861325
    Quick side-question: would any of my WoD ideas look better if I framed them as part of a new setting, rather than the WoD itself?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:51 No.9861332
    To the "promethians kill the land" idea: space. Launch them into space. Let them kill the vacuum of space.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:53 No.9861368

    Like everything you do. Yes.

    A world where the supernatural is out in the open and everyone has to deal with the consequences could be interesting. But it's not the World of Darkness.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:53 No.9861372
    yeah, i think you would get more positive reviews if you said im making _____ using some of the background and rules from nWoD
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:55 No.9861405

    My suggestion is that she use FATE. I think that if I didn't go so easy on her in Geist, she'd hate Storyteller and think it was a horrible system designed to kill the players.

    HOPE YOU ENJOY WOUND PENALTIES AND LONG HOSPITAL ST--shit, can't do another hospital plot. But I have no other ideas except for hospital plots!
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:56 No.9861415
    Obfuscate makes someone "invisible"; they're still there, but people just don't see them.
    This power turns a werewolf into a mortal for a day. They're not still a werewolf, they're a mortal.
    Obfuscate is like you taking a block of ice, and convincing everyone it's a pool of water.
    This power melts the ice into the pool of water.
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)20:56 No.9861422
    I would be flattered if they sent helicopters full of soldiers after me. After I got done looking for a place to hide, that is.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)20:58 No.9861461
    No, it doesn't.

    Obfuscate is a block of ice so clear no one can see it.
    This is more like calling a melted ice pop Kool-aid. It may look like Kool-aid, and it may taste like Kool-aid, but once it freezes again, it's going to be an ice p--man, that is a retarded analogy.

    My point is that it's obscuring magic. It masks the nature of a Werewolf. That means they're still a werewolf, they just APPEAR to be mortal.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)20:59 No.9861492
    Honestly, and this is a problem with most "modern earth versus X" I see, everyone is thinking 20th century. American Civil War era armies would be slaughtered. WWII would have had a difficult time at it. But this is the 21st century. We have reached a point in our military technology that we can blow up anything, anywhere, with a basically unlimited amount of force. We're unstoppable. No supernatural could even come CLOSE to the amount of force the modern world can bring to bear.

    There's just no contest. Our planes can blow shit up from tens of thousands of feet above the ground. Our ICBMs can deliver a payload to anywhere from anywhere. Our tanks can withstand just about any attack, we have millions of them, and we can build more in a hurry. Our artillery can saturate an area of any size with explosion from miles away. Our unmanned drones can see in any spectrum, and fly at any height. Supernaturals are just fucked.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:02 No.9861546
    The werewolf gift makes you a mortal, not masks, makes.

    IMO that means it defeats things like auspex, as you aren't a werewolf but a human now.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:03 No.9861567
    Oh screw it. Why am I arguing? I don't even like Werewolf, and even if I did, an obscure and highly situational Gift isn't likely to come up for me.
    >> Terrifying Lizard Man 05/16/10(Sun)21:03 No.9861574
    >Continued success of guerrilla warfare due to risk of civilian casualties and public opinion disasters
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:03 No.9861582
    nWod: As one of the most common vampiric powers, Obfuscate is a versatile Discipline that gives its user the power to cloud minds so as to become invisible, or better.

    oWoD: Obfuscate is mentally based; its powers achieve their effects by manipulating the minds of others, not in creating any real changes, and thus will not work against creatures immune to such mental effects

    And my point is that they appear mortal in all aspects; Mage Sight would see nothing. It looks like Kool-aid, tastes like Kool-aid, it is Kool-aid until the night comes and it freezes again.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:03 No.9861584
    And then you notice the tracking device stuck on you and the phrase

    "Missile Locked on Target"
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:03 No.9861586
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    >>They may not show their anger, but there's still that [Primal Urge]/2 penalty to your Social Rolls.

    Most Werewolves (especially IMs) don't have it above 3 (a 1/2 penalty, depending on how you round) and very few will push it above five (2/3 depending on how you round) which is not really all that bad especially for social types.

    There's also a Merit to reduce it further.

    Also found it. I ASSUMED it would be in Blood of The Wolf. Turns out it was in The Rage instead.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:04 No.9861600
    I know what I just said, and I swear I'm done after this, but...
    >this Gift from Sagrim-Ur allows a werewolf to mask himself
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:05 No.9861625
    >appears mortal in all respects
    >all respects is an absolute, and thus includes magical respects
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:06 No.9861640
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    >Implying that you'd need a beacon and not just follow his thermal signal, to his BSD friends, then daisycutter the lot of them
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:06 No.9861642

    And the only ones who really could stand against us, Mages, suddenly can't use their most impressive powers. Since everyone knows.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:06 No.9861648
    That's what I meant when I said it makes the ice clear. Obfuscate isn't actual invisibility, it's mental invisibility.

    Because vampires are all lolmind
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:07 No.9861674
    It doesn't make the ice clear, it makes everyone think the ice isn't there. Hide the curse removes the ice for a day.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:08 No.9861682
    The reason they didn't win vietnam is because off this simple fact:

    Public oppinion would have never said yes to nuking them or burning down every single one off them.

    However when faced with creatures that have been living off human blood for hundreds off years...public oppinions tend to be more in favor of hard solutions.

    And like I said before: against vampires, evacuate people at day. release incendary bombs at fall.

    Werewolves, yes some might be able to hide due to mentioned here before, but not every one will be able to do it fast enough.

    All evacuees are stung with a silver needle to check for reaction.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:10 No.9861723
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    Saugrim-Ur designed it, he doesn't teach it. Werewolf has SPECIAL rules for what happens when you get your Totem's attention. They're called Milestone Gifts.

    Pic related. Saugrim-Ur's gift to those who are cunning enough to earn it.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:11 No.9861746
    Those who show no reaction and are forced to submit to a polygraph test.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:13 No.9861770
    any unusual readings will be put in holding pens for 2 days and then retested.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:13 No.9861783
    The people who don't look surprised are flamethrowered. It's the only way to be sure
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:14 No.9861795
    i like this. gets rid of the furries too.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:14 No.9861800
    plus i don't see why there aren't some people who are bound to work with the government. Oh Hai, I'm a werewolf, can i get some government funding to police this region of evil spirits?

    Mage research? more like nasty liberal pork-barrel funding.
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)21:15 No.9861819
    I could offer something to a city-walker kin in return for a run down on how to bribe technology spirits into helping me out of that situation. Your 'werewolf-tests' have a lot of flaws.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:16 No.9861820
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    This only works if they evacuate via the normal channels, not a very bright move. Most will likely cross over to Shadow (where there are no humans) and travel the spirit lands to escape.

    Werewolves, like Mages and Changelings and Sin-Eaters, have the ability to go to places humans can't.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:16 No.9861830
    true, but what they mainly can do is stop the general populace from finding out about them.

    If werewolves are everything and some senator says: "maybe they're friendly" despite the public oppinion having an outrage about their very existance...

    I think someone would be given a silver test
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:17 No.9861838
    So you don't see the obvious problems with destroying your entire country to save it, especially considering that such practices are only going to get rid of a fraction of vampires and werewolves rather than all of them?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:17 No.9861841
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    you're all twits. You have to consider the supernaturals giving a good PR campaign.

    Mages - demonstrate their powers, technomages show all the awesome stuff they do, talk about the abyss trying to eat reality, show that they help protect the world from bad things.

    Changelings - kidnap/abuse victims. sympathy vote.

    vampires - ooze good PR. control media and many politicians. make clear distinctions between vampires living peacefully and find a nice buzzword for the dangerous sorts the sheriff hunts down.

    sin-eaters - help the unquiet dead to rest. will probably be worshiped in the third world.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:17 No.9861844
    Yes, but it still explicitly says it MASKS the nature.

    And I have to say, I'm really finding the lolwerewolvesaregreat attitude to be retarded.

    It's going to be Contested, no matter what. It's a game, and with a game comes game balance. You can't just Obfuscate to the point where you're completely undetectable as a Vampire, and you can't just use Unseen Spy to the point where you can't be detected as a Mage. Auspex and Supernal Vision Contest those things. They'd Contest that as well. So would that Werewolf Gift that lets you sense someone's nature.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:18 No.9861870
    most off them wont be able to or wont survive.

    The thing is, governments will try to kill most off them accepting small pockets going into hiding and tracking them down later

    Doesn't the human thingy make them completely normal for all magical and non magical purposes?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:19 No.9861877
    holy jesus shut the fuck up nobody cares
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:19 No.9861892
    Well sure. We're talking about the supernaturals that WON'T cooperate.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:20 No.9861916

    Sorry they're fucked, no ammount of PR could make up for all the vampire culture and the fact that they've been feeding on humans
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)21:21 No.9861931
    When your idea of 'cooperation' is being dissected, experimented on or just locked in a cage for life and fed slop you wouldn't give your dog, you'll excuse me if I'd rather not have anything to do with you.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:21 No.9861934
    >technology spirits
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:21 No.9861936
    Twilightfags. That is all.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:21 No.9861938
    counterpoint: Twilight.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:22 No.9861947
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:22 No.9861949
    Counterpoint to that

    According to twilight good vampires sparkle in sunlight, care to test if you sparkle in sunlight?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:22 No.9861958
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    >>And I have to say, I'm really finding the lolwerewolvesaregreat attitude to be retarded.

    I think you're reading much to into this, Lace. I'm just saying they have means to disguise themselves and they're pretty good (because anything that makes you mortal has to be when you're hunted by other werewolves and things like spider monsters).

    It's not like I'm saying "WEREWOLVES ARE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING!!!1111 OMG!11!1one."

    >It's going to be Contested, no matter what. It's a game, and with a game comes game balance.

    I'm not sure that would be balanced how. What dice does one roll for Mage Sight? All this gift gets is a dice pool of Harmony - that's a hard cap of 10.

    You have to be careful with pools that have a hard cap.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:23 No.9861988
    werewolves would at least get the consideration great apes do, even if the torture you for medicinal reasons you will get good food and probably a gym and a x-box. Medical monkeys get a balanced diet and enrichment activities.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:24 No.9862007
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    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:25 No.9862013
    actually, in Twilight, 99% vamps are evil, but still sparkle.

    The Cullen family is a unique aberration. All other vamps in the goddamn world feed on humans and kill them, by GNAWING into them, because they don't have fangs.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:25 No.9862014
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    >>9861746 polygraph test
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)21:25 No.9862017
    ... How about a new gary fisher hifi pro, or a santa cruz tallboy?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:25 No.9862026
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    >guys my idea of protecting you is selling out my friends to the wyrm and eating innocents. By the way i think that humans are evil.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:27 No.9862060
    A werewolf power that turns you human should be something like 100x as powerful as something that merely makes it hard to identify you, just as the mage power that turns you dead should likewise be 100x as powerful as something that makes it hard to identify you're a mage or anything other than a corpse.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:27 No.9862062
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    Werewolves go into the Shadow all the time though, I'd say a fair bit more than that would survive.

    And obviously the "completely human" and "shadow realm" routes are different strategies. You don't make yourself human and then jump in the shadow. That wouldn't even work.


    Pretty much. One of the low level Tech gifts lets you tell a machine spirit to take five. Gun jams, car engine dies, etc.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:30 No.9862115
    To bad the polygraph test is the second test

    the first one is silver needle. Somehow I doubt one going Full Human would be able to use low level werewolf powers.

    And if the exodus begins swiftly they'd have to be realy fast to get in, its safe to say the majority will not make it
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:30 No.9862124
    Maybe, probably could build you a dirt track for it.
    (maybe I am thinking to nice of people)
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:32 No.9862148
    Second Sight (the Spirit Mage Sight) is either Intelligence+Occult+Spirit (for the Silver Ladder) or Wits+Occult+Spirit (for the Mysterium), or Gnosis+Spirit (for an Improvised spell). It detects the presence of Spirits, and allows for the scrutinization of Numina and Werewolf Gifts.
    If I'm not mistaken, Auspex is also Wits+Occult+Auspex.
    It would be a roll with a target number of the successes on the Werewolf's Humanity Roll. The Werewolf would obviously be at a disadvantage against a powerful Mage or Vampire, unless he was a saint. But it's better than just "lolimhuman"
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:32 No.9862153
    >find a nice buzzword for the dangerous sorts the sheriff hunts down.

    We have two of them already.

    Anarchs, and Sabbat.

    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)21:32 No.9862160
    An army of hunters is looking to commit genocide on the uratha every day. They have access to resources I can't even understand. What makes you think Bubba Speciesist is going to outsmart friend-uratha here with parlour tricks like silver needles?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:32 No.9862165
    Oh, if it isn't Shits-his-fursuit, our permayiffing non-furry!
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:33 No.9862187
    ALL werewolves can enter the Shadow.

    There'd probably be something like 89% werewolves flee into the Shadow and return to the mortal world in a safer place, 10% simply pass the tests one way or the other, 1% are caught (mainly the ones that were already mindless predators to begin with).
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:34 No.9862208
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    It's not hard to get in though. All you need is the Rend the Gauntlet Rite or a locus. Most werewolves are going to notice everyone leaving and try to get to their locus to bug the fuck out.

    The Forsaken are really good at the whole "bug the fuck out" thing since they've had a loooong time to practice with the Pure.

    Most of those caught and slain will be Pure, which is probably for the better because Pure are assholes.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:35 No.9862217
    Goddomit, screw you Camarilla and your constant dicking us over.

    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:35 No.9862223
    rolled 14 = 14

    He doesn't need to. Quantity has a quality all of it's own. The were only has to slip up once, after all.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:35 No.9862224
    Discovering the existence of urathra marks you for death anyway, so why wouldn't hunters try to beat them to it?

    Also, not all hunters are interested in hurting werewolves. See: the Domesticate tactic, hunters can just train werewolves to be good puppy dogs.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:35 No.9862225
    The power that turns you dead is relatively easy to see through.

    In fact, at about Death 4, you can make yourself completely and utterly dead and still walk around.

    A Mage with Death 3 can make himself a ghost to the Old Laws of the Underworld.

    But like I said, I don't know why I care. It's literally never going to come up for me, and there are a ton of other ways to tell someone's not human anyway.

    A Mage's Unseen Sense will have someone being manipulated by Seers as being moved around on puppet strings. I'm sure it can tell you that a werewolf is not a normal person.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:36 No.9862242
    >In fact, at about Death 4, you can make yourself completely and utterly dead and still walk around.

    What? I don't recall any mage powers that lets you undeadify yourself, just deadify yourself.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:39 No.9862295
    No, not undeathify.
    Deathify with mobility.

    Though thinking about it, that might be Death 5 level stuff.
    I know that with Death, you could probably mimic a few of the powers of the Stygian Key. Specifically the Stygian Caul or Shroud.
    Stygian Caul turns your body dead, letting you get the same benefits vampires do. Bullets do bashing. Then at higher levels you can ignore wound penalties.

    >the Domesticate tactic, hunters can just train werewolves to be good puppy dogs.
    And now I have another porno character concept, and I need to fap again...
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:40 No.9862324
    tl;dr: Antimagic field doesn't cancel melf's acid arrow once it's been conjured.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:40 No.9862340
    I don't exactly think declaring full on war on werewolves is a smart move. They can just enter the spirit world and return later, and they can just jam up the tech in an area and enter warform.

    You'd have to have at every such werewolf killing checkpoint, a group of people who can actually take on werewolves in gauru form, without benefit of firearms, AND who all have willpower of around 10 each. That's some BRASS BAWLS.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:43 No.9862403
    Eh i still think cooping up with other werewolves and angry spirits sounds for a recipe for falling out and self-destruction
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:44 No.9862421
    rolled 4 = 4

    Actually, a suicidal Mage might be able to top that. 100 KG Antimatter. The words Oh SHIIIIIII-
    DOn't even come close.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:46 No.9862455
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    Not entirely convinced, even a average dice pool (that is, averages in each part - 2+2+2) comes out to about average Harmony and can get much larger from there.

    >But it's better than just "lolimhuman"

    It *is* a five dot gift.

    >And now I have another porno character concept, and I need to fap again...

    Oh lawdy.


    There's better reasons it's a bad idea. Such as the fact that Mages and Werewolves are the only ones capable of dealing with spirits and Werewolves are probably the only ones actually capable of murdering them dead *permanently.*

    Taking them out of the equation will result in a rise of Claimed, Besilu, Azlu and shit going to hell if an Idigam decides "Now's a good time to nom the world!"
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:47 No.9862456
    That would destroy the planet and quite a bit beyond that. How does WoD even pretend to be balanced?
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)21:48 No.9862492
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    You're truly beset on all sides by your foes, friend-uratha.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:52 No.9862552
    >A Mage's Unseen Sense will have someone being manipulated by Seers as being moved around on puppet strings.

    Yeah, the purpose of that spell is to detect other spells.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:54 No.9862586
    You guys aren't looking at the big picture.

    Ok, so the major supernaturals are out of the bag.

    How about Tier 3 Hunters? I can think of a few Congressmen who would like to know where all that extra dough Task Force: Valkyrie gets comes from. And then there's Cherion.

    Then we've got our minor templates to worry about. How do we deal with proof that Hell, demons, and the Possesed walk among us? The Purified? All the shit that CAN'T be classified?

    If the entire WoD was revealed, we could not even begin to imagine the world that would ensue.
    >> Mahou Shoujo Beautiful Sanguine Muse 05/16/10(Sun)21:55 No.9862593
    Unseen Sense isn't a spell. It's an innate trait of Mages, and it cuts through other spells and spell like abilities. There's even a bit of errata from the forums where one of the designers talks about Unseen Sense cutting through supernatural means of hiding your nature.

    Unseen Senses Mages have an innate “sixth sense” concerning all things
    supernatural. Their hair stands on end, goose bumps race
    along their arms, or a shiver runs up the spine. Regardless of
    the manner, their bodies react to the active presence of
    unseen forces (i.e., the use of a supernatural power, not
    simply the presence of a vampire or werewolf — unless it is
    using its powers). They can’t actually see or hear anything
    (except a mage’s nimbus when he casts spells), and they
    might not know at first what causes the strange reaction. To
    understand the feeling and its source, they can cast the Mage
    Sight upon themselves (or be the recipient of such a spell),
    and then scrutinize the scene (see below).
    Mortals can purchase a similar ability, the Unseen Sense
    Merit (p. 110 of the World of Darkness Rulebook), but it
    applies to only a single type of supernatural phenomenon,
    such as the presence of a ghost or a vampire. For mages, this
    sense applies to all supernatural phenomena, alerting the
    willworker that the Invisible World is at hand, allowing him
    to cast magic to better investigate.

    And before you say it, a Gift that masks, suppresses, or hides a werewolf's nature is considered in use.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)21:56 No.9862608
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    I like Kincaid's way of dealing with the supernatural: supersonic 50cal round at nearly a mile.
    The sniper is too far away to detect via most super-senses, head shots are hard to bounce back from, and the round hits before you can hear it coming.
    The only way I could think of to get around it is to be a precog... and if their ability is that reliable, they would be in different country than the shooter.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:00 No.9862671
    Preferring Vampire, I can say that this is how it would go down for the Kindred: The Invictus would use their funds and access to high society to survive relatively intact. Everyone else dies or is forced into a Bin Laden like existence of RUN! HIDE! FEED! SLEEP! RUN! HIDE! FEED! SLEEP! which will quickly send them into a Humanity descent. Draugr would be wiped out as priority number one. Belial's Brood would not last a night.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:01 No.9862698
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    Because 100 KG of Antimatter would require Archmage levels of power to create.

    And Archmages are like nations with nukes during the Cold War - they run off pure MAD, fighting proxy battles. Except Archmages you lesser mages instead of 3rd world courntries.


    Foes? This is mere discourse and debate, SoS.

    Admittedly, some of it somewhat of topic, as I'm not sure what business a Mage would have trying to pierce a werewolf's disguise when every supernatural is being hunted down.

    Maybe if they were a Banisher or Seer, I suppose.


    That assumes you are always in position to hit every foe, however. This is simply not the case, elsewise nations would retire tanks, planes and general infantry in favor of snipers with .50s.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:06 No.9862786
    Do not reply to Shits-up-imageboards. Do not cater to the trollplayer.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:07 No.9862797
    sniper can't hit tanks and can't shoot down armies fast enough
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:08 No.9862826

    Fuck man, put enough of them down all at once and there you go.

    And for those places you can't get a bead on them? Airstrike or Artillery strike.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:15 No.9862937
    Actually, Belial's Brood and draugr would probably become the dominant form of vampires. Pushing supernatural creatures into a corner doesn't weaken them; all you'd be doing is convincing vampires to not hold back.

    You essentially can't do anything to groups of vampires who contain members who have Obfuscate or Dominate. There's strictly nothing you can do to catch Obfuscated vampires, and Dominate pretty much fucks up all plans for everyone ever, at the very least because of Possession and Conditioning.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:17 No.9862985
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    I'm pretty sure that's not the reason.


    Whilst the .50 is effective, I'm pretty sure "Airstrikes and .50's!" doesn't work as a strategy.

    The US Army would have long done so in Iraq if this approach did not have significant downsides. And if it doesn't work against wholly mortal terrorists, it's probably not going to work against men who turn into monsters, slip between realities, light people on fire and all other manner of nasty things.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:23 No.9863105
    I guess what we're arguing about is whether the power is still "active" after it's used; to go back to the ice analogy, does the power melt the ice once, and it refreezes at nightfall, or does is the power a constant melting effect?

    I suppose that'd be up to the DM, but again,
    >mortal in all respects, no werewolf nature to hide until nightfall
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:28 No.9863185
    The key phrase in that is "appears mortal" not "is mortal."
    >> Nightmare Work 05/16/10(Sun)22:30 No.9863226
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    Oh yes let's let everyone know that there are massively powerful alien being who will steal them away and turn them into inhuman balls of abused neurosis.
    Nothing could go wrong
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:33 No.9863294
    >appears mortal in all respects
    If it acts mortal in all respects, is it not normal?
    It walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, etc, is it not a duck?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:34 No.9863314
    >is it not NORMAL
    i meant MORTAL, fuck.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:35 No.9863347
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    >philosophy time

    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:35 No.9863351
    The problem with modern weapons is that even though there incredibly destructive, they're indiscriminate. "Airstrikes and .50s" is part of an overall strategy of "see that guy? Fuck him, everyone around him, and a shitload of other guys too" that modern weapons allow. In Iraq we don't WANT to turn every Iraqi into smoldering dust. We could do so if we wanted to, but we don't. With vampires and the like, we would very much like to destroy them utterly and they would be fucked.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:38 No.9863388
    >Images: 31 Posts: 229
    Something wonderful.
    >> Nightmare Work 05/16/10(Sun)22:38 No.9863394
    Two words
    Acceptable Losses.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:41 No.9863457
    Blame poorly worded rules.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:41 No.9863458
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    But the thing is, we DON'T want our backyards and neighbors turned into rubble, dust and piles of gore EVEN MORESO than we don't want Iraq to be a goresplattered rubblepile.

    And that is EXACTLY what you would get with that strategy.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:43 No.9863479
    Uh, plenty of stormfronters want Iraq reduced to rubble, and have you ever seen the popularity of zombie apocalypse threads here? Fa/tg/uys cream their jeans at the thought of having an excuse for killing shitloads of their neighbors.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:47 No.9863563

    Neither of those groups represent the majority of the population, however.
    >> ClassytierVentrue 05/16/10(Sun)22:47 No.9863567
    >we of the camerilla have stood as the protectors and shepards of humanity. Exposing ourselves to great risk to protect you. The great war has lasted since man first walked the earth between us and the Sabbat and their allies the Anarchs

    Sadly the war has been exposed. You have been shown the sheer brutality of the Sabbat and Anarchs. Throughout human history the Camerilla has stood by humanities side. Atilla the Hun was a Sabbat vampire. He was stopped. The Khans were powerful Anarch primogen. They were stopped. Hitler, one of the worst monsters on earth was a puppet under the Sabbat and Anarch allience.

    We have strode forth again and again beside you in the dark fighting at your side.

    But the enemy are too many, the danger to great to spare your innocence. Vampires are real. We are vampires, and we have fought the long war against our own kind to save yours. Because you are us, and we are you.

    Let us join arms, as brothers, as friends and march forward once more against those who would do us harm.

    Death to the Sabbat
    Death to the Anarchs
    >> No Man 05/16/10(Sun)22:48 No.9863602

    At which point the anarchs point out that the camarilla are everything everyone loathes in upper-class society, with a heaping helping of mind control powers to boot.
    >> ClassytierVentrue 05/16/10(Sun)22:51 No.9863661
    they would never have the chance. Ventrue own the media.

    besides it paints the Camerilla as the good guys from the get go.

    ALl the major media outlets would be like FUCK YEAH ITS TRUE. The president would come out and say yeah its true, because the President is owned by the camerilla if you recall that conversation in bloodlines
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:51 No.9863663
    Killing large quantities of humans and destroying tons and tons of property for every vampire you slay, when you will never harm high tier vampires that way, and that vampires can replace casualties in a weekend while humans take something like 20 years, is a fucking retarded concept.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:51 No.9863664
    When Dubya was heading up the war fevor to get us into iraq, they pretty much WERE.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:56 No.9863768

    Not really, no. People were for the war and getting rid of Sadam and any WMDs he might have, but I'm sure most would be horrified at the notion of slaughtering civilians with indiscriminate use of bombs.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:56 No.9863772
    What about Hunters?

    Do they, and the various conspiracy organizations, get to go "See? Told you!", or do they keep quiet, or do they get shouted down because "You knew this whole time?!"
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:57 No.9863808
    Isn't that when the PC tells that wierd Thin-Blood to kill the head vampire who is supposed to be the president? I thought he was lying.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:59 No.9863837
    Nah, the reactionaries were pretty cool with it, and they've become a larger and larger part of our population.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)22:59 No.9863857
    No its not. Not in the matters of racial survival. Rather to die as a human and the rest of the human race die as well then to have it consumed or even lived off by vampires
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:01 No.9863901
    I just realized that Kenning can beat a Charmer or Psycho's power of manipulation.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:02 No.9863909

    Yeah, so where's your proof that you aren't the same as all the rest, you parastic piece of shit.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:02 No.9863913

    i hate that word. I mean I get why you use it. But these communist faggots downtown they use that word in every sentence


    and im like


    I dislike that about todays society. Its war. its never nice. You let it happen you shouldn't shrink from the responsibility. War is terrible its calculated butchery on a grand scale.

    You cried for it now you cry against it. The more terrible a war is the faster its over. You should show little to no restraint in war. Because it is inherently terrible. So make it as bad as it can be so its over quickly
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:03 No.9863947
    >And now I have another porno character concept, and I need to fap again...
    God DAMNIT Edward, you creepy bastard.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:07 No.9864045
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    I don't recall anyone having that mindset around here. Regardless, none of them would have that mindset in our hypothetical scenario because in this case it would be /them/ who would be getting their houses blown seven ways to sunday and potentially dying themselves.

    >You cried for it now you cry against it. The more terrible a war is the faster its over.

    Lolno. You go in hard, fast and indiscriminate and you shoot yourself in the foot.

    The only reason terrorist factions get so many recruits is because war has destroyed a lot of infrastructure (making work and such harder) and the INDISCRIMINATE MURDER OF INNOCENTS tends to make excellent propaganda tools for recruitment.

    Because when it comes to propaganda it doesn't get better than shit that's actually true.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:09 No.9864080
    >Lolno. You go in hard, fast and indiscriminate and you shoot yourself in the foot.

    I disagree

    Sherman did it right. Against my own people but credit to were credit is due. You burn them. You torch them all. Then you stamp them down, indoctrinate them. Make them you.

    Thats how you achieve victory. Make them become you, so they cannot fight.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:12 No.9864158

    That only worked because they were already Americans. They differences were (relatively) minute.

    Look at fucking Cambodia and Vietnam. Attempts were "Make them like me!" went totally fucking wrong. By the time France and England were done cocking things up and America arrived the native populace was all too ready to murder the fuck out of nosy westerners.
    >> scaredofshadows !!zxfRuuFd4v1 05/16/10(Sun)23:15 No.9864204
    There's little point fighting a war if you're going to destroy the host instead of cutting out the tumours of corruption.

    There aren't enough of us to put a dent in your population anyway.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:17 No.9864241
    In the opinion of HURRMANITY FUCK YEAR people, yeah. A LOT of people would be tempted by the possibility of immortality without even having to become a vampire...

    but even more people would be tempted to side against the people BURNING THEIR HOUSES, KILLING THEIR CHILDREN AND DESTROYING THEIR FUTURE.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:19 No.9864267

    Depends on the Tier.

    Tier 1 Hunters would feel vindicated. They're not seen as crazy, and they might get some needed help during Day 0 and the ensuing months (I'm assuming that an event like this would be known as the Year of Nightmares or something important like that).

    Tier 2 Hunters would vary. Most people would be horrified by Ashwood Abbey, Network Zero would SCREAM "Told you we weren't fake!", and possibly come out into the open, and The Union would attempt a recruitment drive, possibly actually associate with real unions. The Long Night would consider it a further sign of the end times, and go into overdrive.

    Tier 3 Hunters, provided that THEY made themselves known or were exposed, are all fucked.

    You say you call upon the power of God? Sounds like wizard talk to me, you deceivers.

    Descendants of Demons? What makes YOU different from the guy I saw down the street? He was possessed by a demon, and he tried to attack my brother.

    Cherion could probably get by, until someone eventually blows the whistle. They'd get so inundated with lawsuits and inquiries by other corporations, that even they may not be able to function.

    Ancient Relics? Sounds dangerous, we'll take those.

    Potions? More like drug dealers. You're out.

    Government Inquiries will expose the extra funders for Task Force: Valkyrie, followed by either a major change in management, or dissolution and a new Government Hunting Agency entirely.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:25 No.9864377
    You guys DO realize that each group has it's own Rotes for every power in the book, right?
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:27 No.9864433
    >Potions? More like drug dealers. You're out.

    Doesn't help that Ascending Ones are literal drug dealers.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:34 No.9864552

    The Ascending Ones might get help from Islamist Extremists.


    In all likelihood, the Ascending Ones' Egyptian background may tick off even the most willing to help extremist.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:39 No.9864652

    Only the Jagged Crescent.

    The Knife of Paradise and Temple of Hermes(PROXIMI ALERT) are totally legit.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:45 No.9864739

    Yes, because when I think totally legit and safe, I think of things with the titles of Knife of Paradise and the Temple of Hermes.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:47 No.9864797
    Gentlemen, I don't know if it's been touched on enough here, so I'll bring it up:
    So many people have been talking about how the military and so forth would kick into high gear if the supernatural were revealed.
    Has no one bothered to think of the reverse?
    Arguably, mages would have life easier, as now people believe reality can be manipulated by magic, so paradox becomes less likely.
    Vampires? Dominates in the right places, or failing that, "Fuck it. Now we drain them dry." If the masquerade is broken, we no longer NEED to hide.
    Go to an inner city gang. "I can make you faster, tougher, and stronger. Just get me out of the city before the fireworks start."
    You declare war on the Uratha, then you're going toe to toe with the world's premier killing machines. Hell, remember that talk of Shadow-walking? Predator Kings inside the armory.
    Also, HOLY SHIT. The panic and hatred could drive Prometheans into Torment like THAT. They would be shown that mankind wants them destroyed, and a lot of them are going to get furious over it.
    I don't know how things would go for Changelings and Geists, but I can't imagine that people who can SHAPE OUR DREAMS and THE UNDYING would go down easy.

    I'd personally be on the side saying "HEY, we made it this long with them around, let's all just chill the fuck out."

    also, lol polygraph. Thugs in gangs can bullshit those things.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:54 No.9864937
    To answer your orginal question Exhalted, and to sum up the thread:

    War, because "OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK"
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:54 No.9864952
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    The mass Awakening of humanity.

    Luckily the Praetorians and Mammonites have arranged a contingency for just such an event...
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:58 No.9865008

    Honestly, the only real solution I can think of is a MAD scenario between the Supernaturals and the Mortals.

    Of course, this will not prevent the Supernaturals from fighting amongst themselves.

    Most supernatural are completely unaware that the other exists. Total Masquerade Failure means everyone knows everyone.

    In all likelihood, it wouldn't be Us vs. Them.

    It would be Us vs. Them vs Those other guys vs. That guy over there vs That person and so on and so forth.

    The paranoia and in fighting could probably wipe a lot of beings out, if the Abyss doesn't just decide to take the opportunity to swallow the Earth from the inital Paradox spike.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:59 No.9865029
    They would die horribly. That's why they all have rules for being in secret and shit.

    Humans don't take well to being prey, chattel, or worse.
    >> Anonymous 05/16/10(Sun)23:59 No.9865032
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    > a version of the WoD where all of the supernaturals had been revealed to the eyes of humanity

    Sup Bitches?
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:00 No.9865054
    Supernaturals, on a good day, would comprise a grand total of 3 to 4% of the population spread out thinly with no overarching organization to speak of.

    Logistically, numerically, and tactically, they are fucked. Cool powers don't mean shit.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:01 No.9865070
    Hmmm... awesome ideas.
    >> Guardswoman Scythia 05/17/10(Mon)00:02 No.9865083
    rolled 26 = 26

    Super: I can flip tanks!

    Humans: Predators!

    Super: Wha-

    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:03 No.9865105

    Humans don't have any better organization, or any reason to selflessly sacrifice themselves to destroy "the enemy."
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:04 No.9865120
    All right, let's take this thought experiment a little further.

    Let's say that tomorrow, the WoD loses all Masquerade. Every secret, every facade, for one reason or another, comes crashing down. Everything is known.

    Now fast forward 100 years.

    What does the world look like?
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:05 No.9865136
    >Humans don't have any better organization
    What? Seriously? Supernaturals are lucky if they have organization past a county level.

    Beyond that, humans routinely don't have any good reasons to kill shit, but do it anyway. We're insecure, violent things.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:06 No.9865151
    Supernaturals are dead. The world is likely destroyed by a Ragnarok-like event.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:06 No.9865153
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    Which is why something like >>9860506 is ideal. If the supernaturals get revealed with the backing of governments and shone in a positive light then things mostly work out find. There's sure to riots, violence and other upheaval, but no genocide (for the most part).

    It's really the only way this deal could work out in a way that doesn't fuck everyone over.
    >> No Man 05/17/10(Mon)00:06 No.9865154
    The only ones who MIGHT not get fucked over are sin-eaters and changelings.

    Also, changelings can go to charity-run support groups now.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:08 No.9865171
    The world is a scorched and shattered wasteland, populated by a meager fragment of the former population.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:08 No.9865181

    How often do people rally to the idea of randomly bombing their own hometown?
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:10 No.9865211
    People won't give a shit about what the government says--they kill other humans for less without government approval.

    You're basically saying that you can convince people to let something be higher on the food chain than them. It's not happening. People get scared, get angry, and get SERIOUS. Shit's gonna get fucked up.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:10 No.9865225
    If the enemy is in it? Quite easily.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:11 No.9865232

    A 3-4% that is, under the right circumstances, more or less ENTIRELY IMMORTAL.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:13 No.9865270
    Most supernaturals can be beaten up by a couple of untrained thugs. You can beat a Garou to death with baseball bats and three guys.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:14 No.9865284
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    >he doesn't know how well focus fire and multiple attacks work when you outnumber your opponent many times over.
    >> Mr. Monitor !XBVfKv4nAs 05/17/10(Mon)00:14 No.9865287
    Vampires - Government programs to stamp out scary bloodsuckers. Mandatory exposure to natural sunlight of all citizens. The ones that escape go deep into hiding, mostly Nosferatu eating rats in old abandoned sewers. The Ventrue are unable to survive outside of society and are quickly killed off or starved into submission. Toreadors are also decimated but not to the same extent.

    Werewolves - Not as bad off. Just know that none of them can ever have contact with a human again or allow themselves to be seen because then humans will start tracking them down and kill them from helicopters with silver ammunition.

    Mages - Pretty much unchanged, they ride the whole thing out and keep to themselves due to PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER.

    Changelings - Actually probably more accepted by humanity as a whole. They are the victims here. A real tearjerker, polls well with the general population. Still freaky so they don't get free run. But Humanity goes on the offensive against intruding Fey in order to try and stop further abductions.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:16 No.9865330
    Mortals, Geists, Mages, Slashers, and Hunters are still around. I'm going to say Changelings will be as well, though I don't know enough about the Hedge to say if we would be able to send tanks and helicopters and shit to kill the Fae and stop the source. No way we would be able to stop Geists, Slashers, and Mages from popping up, though. Some of the Hunter conspiracies that dabble in the supernatural would probably get wiped out when everyone goes berserk. Vampires and Werewolves are definitely wiped out. Someone could make a Promethean every once in a while, but now that Hunters can operate in the open, there will probably be a lot of shit set up to keep that to a minimum and jump on it quick when it actually does happen.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:18 No.9865354
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    You'd have less than perfect chances with vampires. But with Mages, Werewolves, Changelings and Sin-Eaters? They'd be a *much* easier sell since none of those groups needs to eat people. This is especially true if you set up each group's foes and things said groups have been keeping people safe from ("The psychotic Belial's brood and VII were held back by the vampires of the Invictus!" "For thousands of years the Forsaken have kept the feral Pure from plunging us into a new stone age!" "The Council has fought to keep the Seers from puppeteering our whole existance!") etc.

    Vampires would certainly need an 'approved feeding group' or something, however.

    Like I said, there will be riots and whatnot, but with government backing there won't be wars. Governments are, after all, the ones who do the warring.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/17/10(Mon)00:18 No.9865357
    Arcadia is utterly impenetrable by mortals. Only changelings have any chance of reentering the place on their own.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:20 No.9865387
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    Um, no.

    Ignoring for a moment that werewolves instantly heal 1 bashing per round and can spend essence to double that, not only do werewolves in Gauru regularly have 10+ dicepools but they have the protection of Lunacy.

    And anyone short of 10 Willpower is going to piss his fucking pants without supernatural protection or the Hunter Cell tactic "Moral Support."
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:20 No.9865389
    >Mages - Pretty much unchanged, they ride the whole thing out and keep to themselves due to PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER.

    There's a reason the oWoD Technocracy had lots and lots of un-Awakened personnel, not to mention government and media influence.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:20 No.9865390
    The natural instinct of a human being (if a threat is detected) is to attempt to destroy said threat.

    There would likely be considerations into how to destroy Arcadia, if the masquerade was broken.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:22 No.9865426
    The SCIENCE! Hunter cell could probably pull it off.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:22 No.9865434
    Yeah, no. I'm not particularly heroic or bloodthirsty, or even perceptive, but that sounds like utter bullshit and I wouldn't buy it. The problem is, there is NO good PR campaign for creatures that can blatantly use and kill you.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 05/17/10(Mon)00:23 No.9865440
    I seriously doubt it, considering that Arcadia's laws are even more divorced from science than everything else in WoD.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:24 No.9865469
    Uh, yeah, mathematically they can so long as they can beat the Lunacy. WEREWOLVES ARE PEOPLE MUNCHERS ON CRACK because of Lunacy. Otherwise, any old street gang would kill them.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:25 No.9865476
    >creatures that can use and kill you

    Politicians: Also impossible.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:25 No.9865478
    Sounds like the Warp to me. ACTIVATE GELLER FIELDS!
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:26 No.9865503
    Politicians aren't taken seriously anymore.
    >> Mr. Monitor !XBVfKv4nAs 05/17/10(Mon)00:31 No.9865588
    Ok guys, one thing I think we all have to consider.

    Stop thinking of humanity as a just a large concentration of the normal enemies from each book. If the shit hits the fan and all of humanity suddenly gets clued in to every type of supernatural then you are effectively fighting a several billion man Hunter Cell. Every day, all the time, for years and years.

    To simulate this fight basically create a seemingly infinite stream of low level hunters. They attack as soon as they find you and they never stop. Day or night, they are better equipped than you could ever hope to be. They are packing napalm and all they want to do is wipe you and everything like you off the face of the earth. They use all the tactics in the Hunter manual.

    They are organized. They are numerous. They are angry as hell.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:35 No.9865656
    So, in summary.

    Masquerade Broken: BAD END

    Masquerade protected: BAD END

    Ah, WoD, I do so love your hopeless world.
    >> No Man 05/17/10(Mon)00:36 No.9865676
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    For srs. The tea party, for all it being denigrated, has two things holding it together. 'Fiscal conservatism' and disgust with the established parties.

    And I cannot thank them enough for not being socially conservative, too.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:36 No.9865677
    Camarilla would survive, Sin-Eater and Mages will get popular, Changelings depends if the Camarilla helps them or not, if they do get a nice PR they could fit in.

    Everyone else though, loyally extinct, including Werewolfes.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:38 No.9865710
    >And I cannot thank them enough for not being socially conservative, too.

    right. because teabaggers aren't specifically opposed to gay marriage. and don't have noticeable racist elements.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:42 No.9865776
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    No. Three untrained thugs with baseball bats won't, on average, be able to put out enough damage to kill a single wolf in Gauru because he'll be healing naturally 1B of damage per round and capble of using a reflexive action to heal 2B each round.

    While he uses 10+ dice to put multiples of lethal dice in your health levels.

    LEt's say our average thug here has just above average str (3 dice) but is untrained as mentioned (+ 0 weaponry) and given a baseball bat (not mentioned in book, I'll say it's a Wooden club ala Armory, so 2B). That's a dicepool of 5.

    Assuming the werewolf has an average wits/dex of 2, he's got a defense of two. That reduces our thug's pools to 3 each. Assuming each of our thugs hits every round and manages to do a single point of damage, and our werewolf heals with essence every round you have a cumulative damage of 1B per round that can't be accounted for by the werewolf. Most werewolves in Gauru have somewhere near 10 health levels or more. And assuming they have average stamina and primal urge, (2+2) they'll have four rounds in this form before downshifting.

    (continued in a bit, fucking field length limit)
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:43 No.9865789
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    So our wolf will take roughly four points of bashing likely killing one or two of the thugs in the process (assuming average Str (2) + Gauru STR bonus (3) average brawl (2) + Gauru Jaws (2L) we have a pool of 9, assuming only a third hits (like with the thugs' pools) over the course of three rounds one of our average thugs (Size 5 + 2 Stam = 7 health levels) takes 9 damage which rolls over to agg, and is down and bleeding out. Our second is wounded)

    The fight continues in either Urshul or Dalu, where upon the werewolf has only one less health level than he did at the start of the fight and his dicepool is downgraded to 8, but he's now no longer taking excess damage and over the course of two rounds forces the next thug into unconciousness. He has roughly, oh (10 - 4 = 6, -1 for downshift to Urshul, 5, -2 for the two rounds killing that thug) 3 essence left. He doesn't need to spend any however because his foe does 1 per round and he heals it automatically, so the thug gets raped.

    Werewolf wins, only a little worse for the wear and walks it off in less than a minute.

    This of course, is only assuming everyone rolls only a third of their pool as successes. The werewolf could easily have slew Thug 1 in the first round with a lucky roll, or thug 3 gets in a exceptional roll and forces the damage the werewolf took to roll over. It also assumes all four combatants want to stand around hitting each other and not use any sort of tactics whatsoever.

    But the werewolf's chances in this altercation are pretty good. Healing powers are great like that.
    >> No Man 05/17/10(Mon)00:43 No.9865790
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    Give me a second, and I'll find an article citing GOProud being cheered and a gay-basher being booed off the stage at the tea party convention.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:46 No.9865855
    Willpower throws that off entirely.
    >> No Man 05/17/10(Mon)00:47 No.9865859

    And can't forget no proof of anyone shouting 'nigger' when the black congressmen were walking through that crowd, even with news cameras fucking everywhere and a $100,000 dollar reward for proof.


    >We found an interesting difference in anger levels between the two highest profile issues of
    social conservatives: 50% of attendees were extremely angry about the number of abortions
    performed each year, but only 33% were extremely angry about same sex marriage.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:49 No.9865920
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    Like I said:

    >It also assumes all four combatants want to stand around hitting each other and not use any sort of tactics whatsoever.

    Unless you're refering to Lunacy, which I ignored because the argument was that werewolves would be unable to take on three untrained thugs without Lunacy protecting their ass.
    >> No Man 05/17/10(Mon)00:49 No.9865922


    >But the proof is in the outcome, and by every measure I've seen, GOProud's participation was a success, from positive mainstream media coverage to a rabidly anti-gay speaker being booed from the stage for denouncing the gay organization's presence.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:50 No.9865935
    Willpower, yo. If the Thugs burn Willpower, they'll outstrip the werewolf using waay too much damage and readied actions.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:51 No.9865942
    Actually Exalted, a campaign ran in the aftermath of this chaotic Ragnarok would be pretty awesome to play.

    Mad Max like world, small human communities eeking out a living.

    The Fae are still fucking with humanity, accept now there's a shit ton of paranoia involving Fetches, and there's the occasional person who WANTS to be kidnapped, because they fairy-tale-imprisonment-and-brain-rape-land as better than the post apocalypse.

    Vampires are the worst off, as the humans know what to look for now.

    Werewolves are very slowly rebuilding their numbers out in the shattered wilderness.

    Mages are still in-fighting except their ranks are so few that now they're about pre-war Promethean numbers. One side see humanity as "Cant fuck with us now!", other as "Now that they dont have large scale government, they cant be used as puppets anymore!"

    Promethean's got wiped out, Pandorans died out soon afterward.

    Hunters are the few lunatics who go out and actively look for supernaturals to kill, or they guard whats left of mankind, the vigil goes on.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:51 No.9865961
    That's not even tactics. Even if the werewolf spends Willpower of his own, he's going to lose with three guys swinging simply because ganging up is so much better than any power or tactic ever.
    >> Mr. Monitor !XBVfKv4nAs 05/17/10(Mon)00:53 No.9865974
    Yeah but that's three guys on one Werewolf.

    How do the numbers come out if it's instead 3 thugs with .38's, two with Shotguns, and five with Baseball bats and Tire Irons.

    Or hell. How does he do if it's a mob of 100+ people with guns and torches.

    Then of course you have to ask how he handles 10 cops in full riot gear with automatic weaponry. Firing silver bullets.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)00:56 No.9866045

    So, how much do you want to bet that this is what the Post Apocalyptic setting in World of Darkness: Mirrors is going to be more or less like?

    Personally, though, I'd like to play in a world where the world recovered more or less, and now we can go to space and have awesome tech, but we're still at each others throats because of the supernatural.

    Then again, I suppose I could alter Shadowrun for that. But there's no space travel in Shadowrun.
    >> /d/eviating Ca/tg/irl 05/17/10(Mon)00:56 No.9866052

    It's not better, because, THEY LOSE THEIR POWERS.

    They are utterly human, for the day. That's it. You can't detect it, that's the whole fucking point. If there WAS a chance of detection, who would EVER use it?
    >> No Man 05/17/10(Mon)00:57 No.9866062

    Shit, I got trolled hard.


    I think it'd still be preferable to play a modern game after thermidore is reached instead of balls-to-the-wall ragnarok.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)01:02 No.9866164
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    But the werewolf can use willpower as well. He can also use a Dodge action whilst healing to reduce his foe's pools even further and ensure he can burn the essence to reduce his health levels filled with bashing to nothing (or a more manageable level).

    But like I said, I was going for something flat and simple where no tactics were used because one you get into that too much things get really complicated (But X could this here! Y could have done Z! Etc.) I could, for example, had the werewolf use his massive dicepool to systematically disarm the thugs and beat them to death with their own bat(s) while they try to compensate with just their fists. (a dicepool of one, after defense)

    I also forgot that Gauru has a basic 1/1 armor level, which (had I remembered it) would have changed the fight quite a bit since those first four rounds would have resulted in a net zero damage inflicted.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)01:05 No.9866224
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    I never said better equipped (and trained) characters couldn't beat a single werewolf. I just challenged the notion that three untrained thugs could beat an average (that is, average in every stat) werewolf.

    Realistically speaking people will use better trained, better weapons and better numbers. And so will werewolves. Which is why supernaturals would lose in a war but they don't lose to regular thugs when they run into them.

    Because the thugs won't be untrained, but werewolves don't run alone and they're often better than average.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)01:15 No.9866361
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    Spend Will, use Dodge action.

    3 Defense (2 base stat + 1 armor) doubled for Dodge = 6 + 2 = 8.

    Each time the werewolf does this (and he has four chances) each Thug has to do 8 dice to do any damage whatsoever. In short, he forces them into a chance die and that can fuck you up if you fail it.

    He can't outdamage them with Willpower, but he can improve his defense to the point of "Oh god what."

    Not that he needs to for the first four rounds, mind you. With that +1 armor provided by Gauru he's forcing them all into chance rolls (or burning will) until he runs out of steam.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)01:15 No.9866363
    The Seers of the Throne would go apeshit and destroy the world. The end.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)01:16 No.9866386

    >Vampires - Government programs to stamp out scary bloodsuckers. Mandatory exposure to natural sunlight of all citizens. The ones that escape go deep into hiding, mostly Nosferatu eating rats in old abandoned sewers. The Ventrue are unable to survive outside of society and are quickly killed off or starved into submission. Toreadors are also decimated but not to the same extent.

    >Ventrue are unable to survive outside of society

    >Implying they would have to leave in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 05/17/10(Mon)01:18 No.9866430
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    What methods would each individual seers group use to destroy the world.

    This is the way Servants of the Lonely Exarch would end things.

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