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  • File : 1274590863.jpg-(250 KB, 1359x1179, picture050.jpg)
    250 KB Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:01 No.9995590  
    Right, I need help. Again. Imagine a world where there are some special kinds of stones:

    - Heat Stone: produces consistent heat, roughly on par with fire

    - Air Stone: air consistently flows from it in a heavy breeze

    - Water Stone: water consistently flows from it in a light stream

    - Light Stone: Produces light. Kind of like a lightbulb.

    How could these things be harnessed for technology? How would the world develop differently with them?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:03 No.9995636
    All of those (Barring Lightstone, maybe) are infinite, easily accessible energy sources.

    Life would just be all around easier, as you could make just about anything happen with one of these stones and supporting turbines.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:04 No.9995649
    Let's see... I've already thought of

    -self-filling air rifles
    -infinitely powered lights
    -hot swords
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:04 No.9995653
    >Heat Stone
    Boil water for locomotive steam power, blacksmithing
    >Water Stone
    >Wind Stone
    Aviation, wind power
    >Light Stone
    Crop cultivation indoors, undergrounds (DORF FARMERS)
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:06 No.9995678
    Well, what general tech level are we looking at?
    Middle age?
    >> Tao !!fin/6j7zAqJ 05/23/10(Sun)01:06 No.9995688
    what about

    - Stone Stone: produces more stone.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:06 No.9995691
    Mmhmm... but if we were to start with prehistoric man having these things, they obviously wouldn't have electricity. So what kind of power would it be? Like grinders? (waterwheels, etc)

    -hover vehicles
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:07 No.9995700
    What? No stone stone? I feel sad now...
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:07 No.9995703
    you're lacking a heart stone, whit the power to hasten healing, help in growth and keeping general health
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:07 No.9995709
    Heat & Water stone = free steam power
    Heat & Wind stone = free air travel (balloons)

    From there, imagine how civilization would evolve...
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:07 No.9995710
    Beat me to it.
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:08 No.9995724
    what size and volume of emission ratio are we looking at?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:10 No.9995757
    Hmm... I dunno. It's hard to compare an entirely different world to ours. I imagine it would develope very differently. But if you mean what life is like, I've want it to be settled towns, not really nomadic.

    Also: do you think it would be hotter if you lumped more heat stones together? I don't understand basic physics... ><
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:10 No.9995766
    The world's gravity increases at a slow but constant rate as more matter is generated.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:10 No.9995773
    Humanity would be the same as it always was, except we'd have more electricity and fresh water. That's about it.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:11 No.9995791
    Water stones would eventually flood the world, unless there was a sink somewhere where all the water dissapeared.
    End world.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:11 No.9995798
    Ehhhhhhhhhhhh... very good question. Um... what amount makes sense?

    Eyeroll... =\

    Hmm... smart. Very smart. For whatever reason, I never imagined combining them.
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:12 No.9995806
    perhaps the condense air vapor?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:12 No.9995809
    You're dumping infinite energy generators on whoever starts with these. Cavemen will quickly stop being cavemen. Whoever it is, they're going to tech up like a motherfucker, and with a quickness. Water = irrigation. Water + air = air conditioning. Heat + water = steam power, pasteurization. Heat + air = blast furnaces, forging.

    They're probably going to go hardcore agrarian, because the only thing the stones won't automatically create a surplus of is food.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:12 No.9995819
    This. There'd have to be anti-stones somewhere.

    One that generates extreme cold, one with a vacuum force, one that attracts water, and one that fills the area immediately around it with extreme darkness.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:12 No.9995822
    if you break it, each bit slowly grows until it reaches it's previous mass. growth is accelerated if heated or other energy source is available, and can be forced to grow into a mold, eventually acquiring it's shape.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:13 No.9995838
    It's for the horrifically-named Bucketworld. Dammit... suptg seems to be down at the moment... Just take my word that excess air/water flows out of the world and into oblivion.
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:14 No.9995846
    >>Also: do you think it would be hotter if you lumped more heat stones together?

    This depends, do the stones have insulative properties?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:14 No.9995850

    The anti-stones, in and of themselves, would be incredibly valuable boons.
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:14 No.9995857
    That'd be nifty.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:15 No.9995866
    Hmm... that might be very moist AC, hehe. Although I was considering a Cold Stone, but I didn't want to risk a lawsuit from Cold Stone Creamery... (joke)
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:16 No.9995880
    insul-stones have, they look and feel like styrofoam chunks, but cant be melted or burnt, and effectively block 90% of heat, as well as being electrically non-conductive.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:18 No.9995913
    Hmm... hmm... hmm...

    *more thinking*

    That's not a bad idea. Yes, I like that. For the sake of discussion, let's talk about what other stones could be used for:

    -Cold Stone
    -Air Vacuum Stone
    -Water Vacuum Stone
    -Darkness stone
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:19 No.9995916
    i don't know. maybe work out how much (insert element) a piece maybe 10cm2 would produce and scale it from there.

    perfect! i love the idea of opposite forces. imagine the desert nomads clamoring for cold stones or swamp dwellers using sponge stone. subterranean and underwater cities using systems of air and vacuum stones.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:20 No.9995943

    It's how Nebuchadnezzar II kept the Hanging Gardens flourishing, and indirectly how he cooled Babylon. You drop the water from heights so it atomizes, the wind stone gets the water vapor moving. More aerial water vapor + wind currents = better climate, local cooling effect.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:20 No.9995950

    If the stone generates thermal energy, and you put more stones together, you get a larger amount of thermal energy generated. Unless it is inconvenient for the plot if this happens, then it doesn't.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:21 No.9995960
    Hmm... that might not be bad. Buuuut... I'm leaning away from it
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:22 No.9995996
    Different grades of rock have the potential to generate more or less "energy" the higher the grade, the more output and the more value.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:23 No.9996007
    Make a quest to find the four original elemental stones. The stone at the bottom of the ocean from which all water comes, the air stone in a temple high on a mountain, A heat stone deep below the earths surface, and the light stone which shines high in the sky.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:23 No.9996008
    >Cold Stone

    Refrigeration. Climate alteration.

    >Air Vacuum Stone

    Air redirection for heating and cooling. Also useful when stuck at the opposite end of a blast furnace for inducing a constant air current.

    >Absorbent Stone

    Drying marshes / swamps. Desiccating food / remains for preservation. Dehumidifier. A must for libraries.

    >Darkness Stone

    I don't think anyone needs to be told what to do with this one.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:23 No.9996018
    Cold Stone would obviously be a refrigerator, and maybe a moisture condenser as well (Bit fuzzy on my thermodynamics)

    Sponge Stone could be a nasty sabotage weapon if they lacked a water stone, but could be used to drain flooded areas and swamps

    Vacumn stone could amplify Air Stones wind speed, but that one seems fairly useless, all things considered.

    Darkness stones would be defensive smokescreens for treasuries or whatever or tools for thieves and assassins. Mostly the latter, probably.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:23 No.9996025
    No no, that's great. I was thinking that metallurgy would be really difficult with only stuff as hot as normal fire.

    Huh, smart. You know, I heard that the air temperature from like... a mile around the Bellagio fountain in Los Vegas is much cooler because of all the water put into the air.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:24 No.9996029
    >Heat Stone
    Stone heats water. Warmed water rises through turbine, spinning it to make electricity. Water then goes through a different pipe, cooling as it goes, till it returns to the stone chamber. This should make a portable generator that doesn't need refuelling.

    >Air or Water stone
    Put the stone in a chamber which has only one way for the air/water to leave. Put a small turbine in the exit pipe. Another unlimited source of electricity.

    >Light Stone
    Paint it black. We now have a weak heat stone.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:25 No.9996057
    You'd get Flareon, Vaporeon, probably Espeon, and some as yet unknown Flying-type Eeveelution.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:26 No.9996079
    Adsorbent! That's the word I was looking for...

    Makes sense. Also, I guess it should probably be based around surface area, not mass, right?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:27 No.9996108

    It's magic, you ain't gotta explain shit. Hell, make it so that they all have the exact same surface area, but the more powerful stones are denser.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:29 No.9996131
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    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:29 No.9996135
    Now this is gonna sound dumb, but... how is electricity generated on a basic level? I think you revolve a magnet around another magnet and connect it to wire?

    Sorry... I actually did ask about all this stuff on the technology board, but they all thought I was smoking marijuana cigarettes...
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:29 No.9996142

    i would say that for a common grade stone (or is it Stone now?) it would be dependent on surface area, the weaker the Stone, the more of it you need, the stronger the Stone, the smaller, they have greater mass (potential energy perhaps?).
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:29 No.9996144
    come on dude, make mold out of heat stone, fill whit rock stone debris, hello stone-age standardized production.

    alternatively rockstone is a material kinda like epoxy or cement, two different brittle-pumice like stones are crushed and mixed together, then a chemical reaction bonds them into a very dense, very resilient material.

    or they could be just the name given to regular rocks

    or it has magnetic-like proprieties towards other elemental stones, so they used in mining and scrying.

    or it could be a naturally occurring form of plastics.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:30 No.9996159
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    >Surface area
    >Powdered water stone would create vast amounts of water
    >My face when I realised beaches are just deposits of water stone powder and this is all real
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:30 No.9996171
    Magnet spins in a coil of wire forces electrons to move
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:31 No.9996176


    Um... sorry. I just think that even if the basic rules governing a world are vastly different from our own, they should still be explainable. Even if it all isn't know to the characters who reside there, I think it's the obligation of the world's designer to understand how it all works.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:32 No.9996206

    Well, how do you *WANT* it to work? Explain your intent, and we'll handwave the physics to suit.

    Laws are made to be broken.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:32 No.9996208
    the question that would be answered almost immediately is how to kill people with these.

    Heat stone: if it's only the intensity of a fire, cheap torture tool, that's about it.
    Air stone: probably some kind of air-pressure cannon. would take a while to load depending on the amount of air produced.
    Water stone: drown people? idk, this one is tough, but doable.
    Light stone: by itself harmless, but a good distraction tool (think flash bang grenade, but without the bang)

    i only mention these things because, knowing humans, we would find a way to kill people with these things pretty god damn quickly
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:35 No.9996254
    Good god...

    Okay, fair enough. Damn... I really need to come up with the amount of air/water/light/etc that each stone absorbs or releases. It's pretty tough... it needs to be enough that it's useful, but not so much that it's just... too powerful.
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)01:35 No.9996262
    break apart a fire stone, wind stone, light stone, and a water absorbent stone, mix together and use fire stones to meld the four together into a sword, with a darkness sword as the handle.

    Or alternativly, air vacuum stone, water vacuum stone, cold stone, and a light stone in the blade. A darkness stone and wind stone as the handle would be interesting as well.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:35 No.9996268
    1. Get any of those rocks
    2. Hit someone in the head with the rock
    3. ???
    4. Profit
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:35 No.9996278
    magic. have some backstory of ancient wizards dueling with the elements themselves, and they created the continents, seas, skys, etc, with all of these powers (like they were fighting to claim this plane for their element, make another elemental plane of fire, for example) and when they clashed they all died and left these rock-relics behind. magic.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:36 No.9996292
    I was very interested in air rifles. I don't mean modern bb gun things, but actual guns that use air instead of gunpowder. It's touch to design them so that they refill the reservoir without exploding. But I guess they could have some kind of overflow valve... thing.
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:37 No.9996319
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    Stone weapons would still be around too i suppose. weapons grade Heat Stones and Ice Stones.

    also look at my picture.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:38 No.9996328
    Hmm... okay. When I look at it that way it makes sense. Mass-produced furniture, decoration, etc. It's just that stone has some really bad properties: very heavy, brittle, etc. I imagine the uses being minimal, unless you can think of some.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:38 No.9996335
    more like infinite scuba tanks
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:38 No.9996338
    Oh, and scuba-diving equipment
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:39 No.9996351
    DAMMIT! ><
    >> /co//v/ert fa/tg/uy 05/23/10(Sun)01:39 No.9996362
    Enjoy your lungs bursting from all the heavy winds.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:39 No.9996364

    It's all in how long the civilization's had with these things and how advanced it's become. Blow-off valves and pressure regulators aren't exactly space-age tech, but they're certainly past Bronze Age. Now, a pressure gauge and some poor schmuck standing there, ready to throw a lever when it redlines... far lower-tech.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:39 No.9996368
    am i the first one to think of colonizing the moon? throw some water stones and air stones up there, maybe add some heat and light stones later, you have the easiest terraforming ever. hell, if we had those today we could have permanent settlements on Mars and the moon in like, 5 years, tops.
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)01:41 No.9996400

    i'm pretty certain some care would be given to selecting stones with the correct output so as to avoid this.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:41 No.9996406
    Hehe. My intent... I guess to have magic with firm rules replace modern technology. In many fantasy settings it pisses me off so much how people have this powerful (often unexplained) magic, and yet they don't use it to improve stuff for everyone. Public works, architecture, mass production, etc. etc.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:42 No.9996427
    air-ships. this makes steampunk SO possible. you fill the main balloon with hot air (HS+AS) and then you fill several secondary compartments with more air (AS) and just fill them overly full, releasing backwards for primitive thrust. if you get enough powerful enough AS then you can just strap them to a personal device for jet packs, but they likely aren't that powerful.
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:43 No.9996429
    We'd probably be well on our way out of the solar system. The lunar landing would have happened centuries ago.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:43 No.9996438

    By that, I meant, "How do you intend for these things to work mechanically?" Because there's going to be unintended consequences. Like surface area being tied to output level and powdered wind + fire stone becoming an instant thermobaric bomb.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:45 No.9996481
    you would have stupid large cities, since every joe schmoe would either have a water stone or would buy temporary access to a water stone, so piping in water is unnecessary. also, light stones and wind stones make electricity almost obsolete for most middle-age purposes. why get a steam engine or a locomotive when you can just strap a bunch of wind stones to the back of a really light cart? who cares about artificial light when you have natural flash lights?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:45 No.9996485
    Very true.


    Seems painful...

    Yeah, I was thinking of powderizing the stones and mixing them with swords and such, but I only went as far as the fire ones.

    Very smart. If suptg ever comes up again, you'll see that there are indeed overly-powered demigod type people who eventually get bored and confine and observe people for their own entertainment. It wouldn't be a stretch for the truth of the world to be that a very power one of these created the entire world
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:46 No.9996492
    That is circumvented by tying output to mass instead. Its like the stones are giving off the elements as non-lethal radiation.
    >> Gaow? 05/23/10(Sun)01:46 No.9996494

    At least on whatever world they came from there would either be too few of them to interfere with basic environmental equilibrium or somehow there effects would be canceled out to allow a stable environment on the world where the people lived.

    In the first case, you might not have enough stones for easy terraforming. The second, you might need the stones back home to keep the environment in balance. What if there are anti-stones that are constantly absorbing heat, air and water?

    It isn't a bad idea though.

    My first thought with these was, however, FUCK YEAH ROCKET. A water stone chamber that feeds into a heat-stone chamber, then a nozzle to direct the thrust generated by the sudden steam. Vents on the outside to dump the water when you don't want to generate thrust.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:46 No.9996496
    called it. folks find out how to turn the most mundane things into weapons.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:46 No.9996498
    it's kinda like very fine grained pumice or floral foam: brittle, softish, ligth weigth, non-machinable (sine all cuts, breaks and marks grow back), unable to hold and edge or carry significant weight. used mostly to make things you'd usually carve out of wood since molding is cheaper and easier than carving.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:48 No.9996531
    Okay. I guess I do want technology to be of a certain level. At what point did metallurgy become advanced enough to allow significant detail and... stuff? I'm talking about the ability to create machinery, etc.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:49 No.9996547

    And that's why I was asking him for mechanics. This seems like a good work-around, and a reason why everyone and their sister doesn't have a jetpack: because it would weigh more than you do.
    >> TheLionHearted !HAGYQOveO. 05/23/10(Sun)01:49 No.9996551
    1600's when the Germans started making those clocks.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:51 No.9996585
    Ya know, what happens if this kind of world is a free-floating world in void space, where there's no natural sun or moon to generate light and tidal forces, thus the world is reliant on these (magic?) stones to keep the world lighted and running. It'd be eternal twilight with a low background glow, and groups of people in towns/cities tend to be bright spots from orbit due to the collection of light stones.
    >> Gaow? 05/23/10(Sun)01:51 No.9996593
    About 1000 BCE marks the real age when machines started becoming relatively common.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:51 No.9996594
    Smart, but... this world doesn't really have planets, stars, moons, etc. It could work underwater probably, though.

    Dammit... can't find my picture...
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:53 No.9996622
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    This is the way that 'runic' works in the fantasy setting that I frequent. I wrote and designed this setup and run the steampunk/fantasypunk subsetting within it.

    On top of the 'magical stones' that you've discussed (I call them runes, because the function is actually based on a written form of the language of magic, ala the same shit wizards say to cast spells but written down) we also have the 'Earth Rune', which magnetizes any material towards it (regardless of magnetic properties).

    The most common use for Runic is in the form of a closed steam engine system. Flame runes for heating water into steam, ice runes for cooling it quickly back into water, and aer runes to manipulate the direction the steam moves through turbines.

    Runes are the written language of the cosmic, commands hardcoded into reality by the first beings to manipulate ordered reality.

    Pic is a fire rune, Flamus, in an incomplete state. By breaking a rune symbol up and attaching it to say a level, you obtain a switch-on/off setting that is necessary for complex machinery.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:54 No.9996632

    Technically? Antiquity. It's all in what level of precision, consistency, and quantity you're talking about.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:54 No.9996647
    Ah! Right... I think I understand. The material just pours out from every surface on the stone. If that makes sense. I hope that's what you mean...

    If you mean how they're utilized, I want it to be more natural and logical, which is why I'm asking here. Sorry... I get confused easily...
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:56 No.9996671
    Well, the stones are going to be rare and expensive. And the world is designed to have very isolated communities, but it is better if each one is a big community.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:57 No.9996681

    That's because we lost a fuckton between the repeated sacks of Alexandria and the Dark Ages. Look at the Antikythera mechanism, some of the inscribing work the Minoans did, Chinese astrological implements... The basics were worked out long, long ago. And these guys are going to have infinite power sources just laying around.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)01:58 No.9996700
    Yeah, I guess so. Plus, different types of stones (granite vs pumice) would produce different amounts. And if you broke up a stone, it would solve the so-called "sand problem" mentioned earlier
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:59 No.9996725

    They're not going to have a value. They'd be literally priceless. Each one could fuel an entire industry. Kings, warlords, chieftains, guilds, whatever are going to quickly nationalize and strictly control access to these.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)01:59 No.9996728
    What if you melted down these stones and combined them?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:00 No.9996744
    then you get bacon
    >> Lou Lynx !higyI9E1yY 05/23/10(Sun)02:00 No.9996746
    Let me get this straight. You have, for example, a pot of water, and balanced rod hanging into the pot. On the end of the rod, in the water, is a bobbing float; on the other end is the middle piece of the rune.

    When the water is cold, the float lowers, and completes the fire rune. The rune heats the bottom of the pot. The pot boils, the water roils, and the float rises. The rod, lifted on one end, lowers on the other and breaks the rune connection. Eventually the water level goes down and it continues in a cycle, back and forth.

    Magic temperature control?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:00 No.9996748
    Yeah! Thanks. They would be rare. not so rare as to disallow their use for big things like airships, but they'd be expensive.

    Ah, smart idea about the rockets. They could potentially be very large. Albeit expensive and a little hard to aim...
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:03 No.9996796
    Smar smart smart smart smart. One of the restrictions I was thinking of placing on this world is that there's no wood. Pretty big deal, I know. So people would need to use stone, metal, and animal parts for their daily usage.

    Also, I was thinking of do away with ores. Have a different system of elements that do not corrode, and thus appear naturally in nature, like how gold sometimes does.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:04 No.9996806
    Runic in the setting I come from do still have limitations. They used to just run forever, which made them too good in too many contexts. I had to come up with a power source that made sense within the setting that could be combined with runes to have them do what they were doing before, but with the capability of eventually just running out of juice.

    Now, this is an ongoing setting, and just before the discovery of runes and their application for technology we had a fuck-massive dragon (We're talking like 1/25th the size of a small continent) die and spill its blood over the continent that most of the setting takes place on. This dragon had consumed the vast majority of its kindred and become a powerhouse near-god, and we decided that its potent blood had crystallized in the earth as a red ore called 'Oungmund'.

    Oungmund obsorbs mana from the world and expels it in the form of a mutating radiation. This radiation creates our settings version of Dragonborn, albeit as near mindless brutes that ravage and pillage akin to Orc hordes. The ore can be purified to lose its mana shedding property, removing the radiation aspects and making it a perfect 'mana battery' to power runic with only one side effect: Without a way to disperse mana, Oungmund cells eventually explode if they aren't used.

    Thus, you have a runic slab and the face that the slab has runes carved in it produces the effect written on the rune, and you place an oungmund cell behind the slab to force it to produce its effects.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:04 No.9996811
    Oh ho ho. Perfect. Good level. Although it'd be more of an idealized version where this kind of technology is more widely available, not just to the very rich.
    >> Magus O'Grady 05/23/10(Sun)02:04 No.9996813
    Actual world-spanning cities would be possible. With infinite access to light and fresh water, both people and crops can be grown anywhere. Irrigation becomes more a matter of transporting minerals than water. Infinite heat, likewise would make it possible to live in previously uninhabitable regions.

    A thousand water stones could be placed in an array above a 100 foot drop, and the entire drop lined with water-wheels, the spinning of which produces electricity, powering nearby regions indefinitely, and forming the basis of an aqueduct system to use the downward pressure of the water to force it through pipes and distribute it to homes.

    Heat stones can power the boilers of steam engines, powering public transportation train networks and industry as a whole.

    Heat and light stones render most uses of petroleu products obsolete. Gas lights, coal, gasoline, all obsolete.

    Within three generations of discovering these stones, there would exist a standard of living equaling or exceeding that of the Romans. Five generations, and in some ways they'd be living on par with modern man in the real world.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:05 No.9996825
    all plants are grass then?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:06 No.9996847
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    Hah! It's back up!

    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:07 No.9996857

    Except that he's dead wrong. Unless you're specifically looking for MASS PRODUCTION of high-precision devices.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:07 No.9996873
    Magic, however, is everywhere in the setting. Runes still function without an Oungmund cell or mana backing them, albeit at a much lesser effect. Fire runes are hot, water runes are moist, etc.

    Magi in our setting combine the ability to channel mana, absorbing it from the world around them, and the ability to speak the words of creation, magic, to produce spells. Since mages already know how to channel magic, they can also grab one of these runes and power it themselves, forsaking the verbal part of spell casting.

    I have an ancient page about this if you want to read more for your own concepts. I am terrible at updating our wiki, so as a communal effort my work is not on it too often.

    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:08 No.9996881
    Eh... really? Either way, a more renaissance-type feel. Kind of... a Victorian stone-age Venice. Yeah, that sounds good...
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:12 No.9996942
    silly op, it's always stoneage in bucketworld, there's no wood or metals
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:12 No.9996951
    Yes, yes... interesting. I'll look that up if it's available somewhere.

    Yeah, precision seems to be the same problem. As an example (if I understand properly), they had all of the basic technology to create cartridge-based weapons at the turn of the 1800s, but it took a while to get the machining to be precise enough to create the brass cartridges / those little exploding nipple... things.

    Ugh, I'm not very articulate... But you know what I mean, right?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:12 No.9996952
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:13 No.9996961

    Again, it doesn't really matter WHEN you set it. Within a few generations of people laying hands on these things, they're going to be pushing Victorian levels of industry. What stopped every swinging dick on the planet from having steel weaponry in 1200 BCE? Lack of iron ore and/or no heat source hot enough to smelt it. Mining ops will still suck, but will become far easier with use of stones. (Water stone + wind stone = hydraulic mining, water stone / fire stone as a power source = automated tools) And we've already covered how laughably easy it would be to make a blast furnace.
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)02:14 No.9996977
    the detonator
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:16 No.9997002

    Sorry. Same person talking about the same setting. Shoulda namefagged for a bit.

    Wiki link is there for a slightly more lengthy explanation of the technology involved.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:16 No.9997008
    Ah, I see. In fact, a Roman style might be cool too...

    Well, technically true, although they're not gonna be that rare, either. Unless of course the city state in question is a monarchy/dictatorship. Which is actually pretty likely... I mean, in that case, they would literally be priceless because the government would just claim all of them for themselves.
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)02:17 No.9997012
    you would not need much, just some good, light, insulation on a skin, lining the opening on the bottom with crumbs of heat and air stones. Maybe throw in two pairs of light/dark stones on the bottom to tell people you are coming...
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:19 No.9997051
    Well, it'd be tough to combine them without a base medium (is that the right term?). However, if you combined them in piece of metal for example, I'd think that opposites would negate each other (vacuum + air), but other combinations could have potentially devastating powers like, eh... maybe cold + water, freezing whatever part of you touches it. I guess.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:21 No.9997067

    I follow ya. The problem wasn't so much precision. They could do that with passable enough facility to make a weapon that wouldn't blow up in your hand. The problem was consistency and scale. Every single round would have to be hand-crafted for your individual weapon. At that point, you're practically throwing works of art at your opponent. You might as well hire a few dozen musketmen for the same cost.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:21 No.9997074
    Not exactly infinite. The stones are still rare, and each one can pretty much only have one use
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:23 No.9997095
    Shrubs, weeds, grass, seed-baring grass (crops, ferns maybe. Stuff like that
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:24 No.9997113

    So wicker and cane, but no WOOD wood.
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)02:26 No.9997131
    why not infinite? Build an entire world out of these things... Have massive lakes that glow from light, filled with water and draining at constant rates. Heat stones keep the world turning, and in constant change with the cold stones.

    Volcanoes spring up around cold stones, as the heat stones bring themselves towards them to compensate for the loss, or ice caps with water stones and cold stones in them, and heat stones arrayed around them...

    Bond the air and light/dark stones together, and have them travel through the sky bringing night and darkness throughout the world at random moments... etc.. etc..

    Btw, how magic heavy is this world?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:26 No.9997133
    Hmm... yeah, I guess it'd make more sense for the high quality stuff being produced by a master craftsman.

    Well, there is metal, probably. Unless you think the things it does can be replicated with animal parts? (melee weaponry, farming tools, airguns, etc?)
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)02:27 No.9997153
    lets see... for massive architectural structures, you would need metal, but for pretty much everything else, something made of animals would suffice... cept maybe computers and such...
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:28 No.9997156
    Similar, but legally distinct from...

    But no, it will be vastly different based on: weird magic stones, no wood, giant creatures, coral mushroom islands, etc.

    That must sound incredibly weird... just look here:
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:33 No.9997231

    The Egyptians would beg to differ.

    And OP, if you're looking for logical underpinning, "stone but no metal" ain't it. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the formulation of such a setting short of "magic did it, fuck off".
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)02:33 No.9997237
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    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:35 No.9997265
    Hmm... but there has to be a part where it all levels out. I mean, if I've learned anything from that British guy from Connections, it's that things don't change as long as everything works. Unless there's a need for change (famine, barbarians, etc) Know what I mean?

    Oh, is that it? I thought it had some other technical name...

    Thanks =3

    Ah! I think I understand. You mean projectile weapons? Well in my vision, you aren't launching the power stones themselves, you're just launching normal lead bullets. You only need a single air stone inside the reservoir to provide air pressure.
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)02:35 No.9997271
    true that on the Egyptians...
    hmm... imagine the pyramids being built entirely out of heat stones, so much so that they are the cause of the much of the Egyptian desserts...

    Hmm... I need to do a campeign on this, exploring the eight elemental tombs ov kings.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:42 No.9997358
    Exactly. And thatching, linen, etc.

    Hmm... it could work but... well, see, the original concept of the world was that it consisted of many separate, isolated communities. Each place needed to be self-sufficient and reasonably advanced (hence the stones).

    Plus, to be totally honest, I always want some kind of combat that combined repeating guns and melee weapons on roughly equal terms, and these kinds of air weaponry seem perfect.

    As for magic, it's more like a super power in this setting. Some people are born with the innate ability to control certain elements (yeah, I know, it's been done, I don't care). So someone might be born with the ability to telekinetically control air, or the ability to heat rock. I know, each sounds useless, but think about it. The air power might allow you to suck the air from around someone, forming a painful, deadly vacuum. So... yeah, I'm rambling... ><
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:45 No.9997396
    Speaking of! This isn't quite computers ,but I love it:

    One of the powers would be the ability to create vision portals. You touch two (ideally flat) stones, and they transmit sound and images from one to another. Hence: rudimentary live television.

    I came up with that idea for Rockworld, and for anyone interested, I'm trying to combine that and Bucketworld into something that hopefully does NOT have a shit name... ><


    >> No Man 05/23/10(Sun)02:49 No.9997447

    'The land at the bottom.'


    'The floating land,' because if we're going with 'immediately above hole in the world-bucket,' they're not just below most of the 'world,' but above the terminal point.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:50 No.9997455
    Once again, there, uh... there really is metal at the moment. I promise, hehe.

    And to be honest, magic did kind of do it. I know that sounds bad, but the idea is that some powerrful demigod-esque person became bored and designed a world where he could observe and occasionally screw with the people there for his own amusement. Naturally, the people who reside there don't realize this.

    Oh! I didn't notice this one. Not bad... AND you would need to have a death stone to equal things out.

    Hmm... seems like there might be too much potential for abuse though...
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)02:52 No.9997499
    hmm... I understand what youre saying...
    However, You will need to explain how either the stones came into being, or how people get the stones.

    If you, for example, say that the stones are the very building blocks of all matter, then they can easily be found and collected, in an innate manner. If they are mined from the planets beginning, then they could become that much more of a valuable commodity. either way could be used for entirely different campaigns.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)02:56 No.9997566
    Those sound good =3

    That's a good idea. Although I was imagining the positive stones (heat, etc) being linked to the negative ones (cold, etc) so that the energy flows into one, and out the other.

    Although the elements being the building blocks of all matter is awfully tempting too, because it works well with my new elemental model I'm trying to create (a new, simplified period table, basically)

    Also! I'm finally caught up with the responses! It's kind of bittersweet because it means people stopped posting... =\
    >> Cypher !Qfw/yKqFpE 05/23/10(Sun)02:57 No.9997581
    well, there isnt much to post about, unless you want us building things out of these matierials...
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:03 No.9997691
    I.. I dunno... I don't wanna bother people...

    The main issue was things that the... what number are we up to? Between 8 and 12ish elements. What they can be used to create, and how it would effect society at large.

    To be honest, I'm still a little unclear about what the equilibrium would be. By which I mean, once the society fully learns to utilize these powers, what would the average city look like?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:09 No.9997785
    Am I the only one seeing potential for insane dicators to take all the heat stones their country/city/continet has to an arctic reigion to fuck up world ecosystem? Screw with the deserts too much using water stones and you fuck up the planet since everything is so interconnected
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:10 No.9997791
    build it, and he will cum
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:16 No.9997910

    There aren't exactly "polar regions" in the sense that we know it (although there are colder, icier areas... probably). So that would indeed allow for "terraforming" inhospitable areas.

    Also, I was just hit with a thought. Instead of one big hole in the center of the world, what about smaller ones all around the world to allow for more varied currents.

    (you can read more about the setting to understand what the hell that means)
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:20 No.9997951
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    >>not energy
    what am I reading?.jpg

    OP, water stone and heat, infinite steam turbine.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:20 No.9997959
    >once the society fully learns to utilize these powers, what would the average city look like?

    Pick your favorite god-tech sci-fi. It'll be that. Seriously, infinite inexhaustible power supplies. They lucked out and were handed the tools to skip straight past cold fusion. The only things stopping them are inventiveness and natural laws.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:25 No.9998025
    Yah, but... see, the thing is that I basically want these magic stones to replace more advanced technology, and it seems like figuring out that revolving magnets on a steam turbine create electricity is a pretty big leap for me... although steamships might still make sense.

    Hehe. I should clarify though. I don';t want their actual science to advance too much, if that makes sense. Hence, ideally no electricity, maybe no complex engines, plastics, etc. Sorry, I know it's weird... >-<;;
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:27 No.9998066
    then make them shit, your basically telling us heres this infinitely powerful rock that can do anything you want then complaining when we give you answers that don't involve idiots ignoring their potential and using them as brick and mortar.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:32 No.9998131

    In a much less harsh manner than this guy, OP: It doesn't matter. Unless you handwave some serious shit, their society is going to tech like gangbusters, just by virtue of the infinite energy source rocks existing. Sure, they're not going to get there overnight, but within a few generations, some major labor-saving, force-multiplier, materials sciences, and overall technological jumps are going to be researched and implemented. Man is just too inquisitive to not say, "How can I harness this to make me killier / richer / lazier?"

    So you either have to make them ultra-rare, tightly controlled, or far less potent.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:36 No.9998203

    I'm sorry... don't be mad...

    I'm just thinking of what I said before, that society doesn't change unless there's a need to. And basically, this society would advance without the need for advanced science, because it would be fullfilled by the stones. I just imagine that once they learn to harness these things for their basic needs and obvious functions, it would take a long time for them to figure out even seemingly basic scientific ideas.

    Example: they can easily produce creap, effective light and heat, so they wouldn't investigate lightbulbs, oil heating, furnaces, etc etc etc. Does that make sense?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:41 No.9998305
    I meant to say "cheap"

    Hmm... okay. It does seem that people imagine these things as being really, really powerful and common, when in fact, I don't even imagine most cities having more than... a few dozen, maybe. Utilized mostly for industry and whatnot.

    And even then, these water stones, for example will only produce as much water as, say... turning on the faucet. Not exactly a Hoover Dam torrent...
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:42 No.9998316
    I meant to say "cheep"

    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:43 No.9998334

    The rocks themselves won't cause SUDDENLY, UTOPIA!. It just doesn't work like that. There will still be strife, conflict, injustice, jealousy, hatred, boredom, rivalry, and any of 1,001 reasons why humans do what they do. THIS drives innovation. So sure, they probably won't bother with gunpowder or petrochemical-based internal combustion, but they'll be masters of hydrodynamics and hydraulics. End result's still the same.

    And again, they have power sources that are BETTER THAN FUSION. Good luck slowing *that* bullet train to the future.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:50 No.9998469
    EXACTLY! Thank you. I feel like everyone else was saying that after a few generations, the world would functionally be the same as current day, or possibly some jetsons-esque future world, just with different power sources. But I'm saying that it would develop differently, the focus would be on different things. And that's what this thread is about, figuring out how the world would develop differently from our own.

    I'm sorry if I miscommunicated that. I'm not very good at expressing my ideas sometimes... Please don't get mad everyone, okays...?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)03:54 No.9998529
    err, it will, in about 500 years you'd have modern day you idiot, the only thing holding it back would be the lack of machine tools which would gradually develop.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)03:57 No.9998574
    Please don't be mean... =\

    I'm not sure if people understand the setting... each city is very isolated, and travel / trade is very difficult. So that means that there is little communication about technology, and each city only has the basic natural resources directly around them.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)04:06 No.9998737
    Why would the world be any different than our own? Are the people different? Do they think differently?

    You just dropped magitech into the setting. Why wouldn't people use it?

    Yes, there are precedents. Hero of Alexandria's Steam Engine. Ignored because slaves were cheaper. The Antihikerya device or however it is spelled. Mechanical computing two millennia before Babbage, ignored because who knows why? Do you want people to use the tech or not?

    Because with your OP you have Jetson-tech within a few generations.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)04:09 No.9998792
    See the post above you. This isn't earth we're talking about. Would that effect things?

    I'll give the link again in case you missed it:
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)04:32 No.9999134
    Geography don't enter into it. If people have free power (and all of these are free power) they are going to use it.

    Jetson-tech in a few generations. Unless they are all brain-damaged or ruled by some asshole church. In which case you need a fifth stone.


    But not a useless transmuting one. An actual philosophy generating stone so they can overturn existing, restrictive social conventions and start strangling kings with the entrails of priests.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)04:33 No.9999158

    His point still stands. Competitive pressures don't have to be international. Just competing with the surrounding environment and each other will foster innovation. People will innovate irrigation and farming techniques, because it makes them less likely to die. They'll innovate mechanical advantage, because one man doing the work of 20 has value. (Unless you have a fuckton of slaves.) There will be individual facets of the sciences that will be ignored; there's going to be no reason for them to go into atomic sciences, because who gives a shit? But in the end, THIS SHIT IS BETTER THAN FUSION. It's inexhaustible, free energy. On a long enough timeline (and in this context, "long enough" is "several hundred years without major societal resets"), Steampunk-Jetsons is inevitable.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)04:41 No.9999258
    Arg, fine. I'll either...

    A.) make them less powerful and more rare, or
    B.) make the setting set (and firmly locked) before much of the tech revolution stuff.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)04:46 No.9999320

    You really can't make them "less powerful". They're creating matter / energy from nothing. Even with the tiniest of yields, that's fucking nuts. All you'll succeed in doing is marginalizing the immediate value of them to the point that they may as well not exist. "More rare", now THAT is an option. Because it's also going to drive the perceived value through the ceiling, so larger powers than your PCs are going to be all over them.

    As to B, be prepared for the PCs to break your system with simple innovations. Sure, some of it will be straight-up metagame (LOL I MAEK NUKE), but some of it's gonna be any mong with half a brain looking at an infinitely-flowing water rock and saying, "Huh, I can use that to do X."
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)04:50 No.9999369
    Hmm, okay. Although no matter what you say, I really cannot imagine an infinitely dripping stone as being some kind of hugely world-changing item.

    Also, technically their transporting this matter from somewhere else probably: >>9997566
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:07 No.9999549

    Any time you throw the laws of thermodynamics out the window, shit gets wacky with a quickness. Picture that ever-dripping stone. Now put it above a catch basin attached to a ratcheting cam arm, which manipulates a ratcheting gear. Every time the basin fills enough that the weight of the water exceeds the resistance of the gear, the gear advances a tooth or two and locks against backsliding, the basin dumps, and a tensioner spring returns the cam / basin to its original position. Throw in some reduction gears and a rope and pulley system, and on a long enough timeline, you can move a statue of the Buddha the size of a house to the top of Mount Everest.

    And that's just amateur-level physics haxx. Picture a water stone at the top of an inclined trough, a water wheel set into the trough, and a desiccating stone at the bottom to multiply the effects of gravity and inertia. That wheel can then power ANYTHING. The tiny handful of degrees of thermal variance between the surface temp and deep geothermal temps is enough to heat (and potentially power) a building. A heat stone would outclass that significantly, or it'd just be called a warm stone. You're opening one hell of a genie bottle.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:09 No.9999586
    >>Hmm, okay. Although no matter what you say, I really cannot imagine an infinitely dripping stone as being some kind of hugely world-changing item.

    I'm sorry. You are simply wrong about this. It is not open to debate.

    You are talking about a portable water wheel that delivers power with zero fuel. That would cause major shockwaves in this economy if it was available in quantity.

    Now if you want to drop the power down to one drop a century? Then yeah, maybe no so much. But then it's not much of a setting feature.
    >> TheBeardedBear 05/23/10(Sun)05:11 No.9999618
    So with all of those waterstones, how has the world not been FLOODED yet?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:13 No.9999668

    See above. We posited equal-and-opposite desiccating stones that suck up the same water output. Hell, there's a portal between the two, and that's how water stones keep cranking out water.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:18 No.9999784
    Holy CRAP! Stones that suck up water? And presumably air, heat and light?

    LIGHT? A FUCKING DARKSTONE? I'm no physicist, but I'm sure there is one trained in the Newtonian arts who could do some whack shit with something like that.

    (I mean what is the temperature of that thing?)

    But with oppo-stones? Man, Jetson-Tech is selling the future of this setting short.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:22 No.9999885

    Yeah, that's kinda where I went with it. Shit's gonna get broken, and it's gonna get broken fast. Any one stone will be useful, but getting a matching pair? That's the equivalent of someone handing you a free hydroelectric dam, no space requirements. Except maybe light/darkness, unless you figure out photovoltaics.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)05:24 No.9999928
    I'm sorry, I just can't see that. Being possible and being implemented is totally different.

    - "Hey Steve, uh... why do we have that giant mechanism in the middle of town?"
    - "Oh, that? It's so that we can grind some flour in a thousand years"
    - "Okay, well... we have a stream over hear, we could just-"
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:26 No.10000103

    That's only if you scale them back so much that they're functionally useless. And if you do that, it defeats the point of creating them in the first place. You now have a warm rock, a bubble rock, a wet rock, and a barely-glowing rock. Whoopidy doo.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)05:30 No.10000202
    Exactly. However, that's not what people were saying. I mentioned scaling it back and people said "NO! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT! IT WOULD STILL COMPLETELY CHANGE THE ENTIRE WORLD."

    In my mind, unless specifically mentioned, those aspects are just like normal stone. For example, a light stone would be normal, room temperature, etc.

    Also, for all the criticisms, I'm might as well just go with, as TVtropes calls it, Fridge Logic. It might logically progress to that point, but it hasn't been implemented that way.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:34 No.10000267

    Well, still, even a dripstone is going to have functionality. You have to go for drip-every-ten-years-stone for it to not do haxx things, and then you've made it useless.

    Really, I love the idea. That's why I'm all over this thread. I'm just warning you of the potential for specifically PCs to take it somewhere broken. You can always have the permanent answer from NPCs, "Huh. I never thought of it that way..." PCs fuck off and adventure, come back, and suddenly, their idea is all over the place (and they're getting zero credit for it).
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:35 No.10000277
    Agreed. If you want to make the rocks into slightly damp, warm, and shiny then no. They won't be useful to a medieval society, or even much to the present day (though there would still be applications).

    But if the setting feature is "HEY! Slightly damp rocks!" then why bother to mention it or include it?

    Reminds me of a thread on rpg.net. Somebody wanted rednecks in space so posted a cheap hyper-drive. Twenty pages of how to blow up a planet followed. PCs are evil, meta-gaming bastards. If you want these things to be a feature of the setting you must prepare for players willing to exploit it, or at the very least bitch about why others haven't exploited it.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)05:40 No.10000325
    S... sorry for capslocking at you... it just gets frustrating... really sorry...

    Hehe, okays, I get it. I, um... I've never actually played a tabletop rpg, so I'm not used to the idea of players being jerks and trying to break the game...

    See, um... I have a really good idea for a story set here, I think... but I'd hate to rush into something without first knowing everything possible about my setting.

    I... I really do appreciate everyone's help here!
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)05:45 No.10000383
    No problem. As a GM you have to plan for your PCs breaking the game. They are all naturally scum and cheats. While you may have a lovely story in mind you can't count on them following along. Instead of rushing off to rescue the princess they could just as easily squat at home and build an army of steam-tanks they will use to conquer the kingdom.

    If you are just starting out, best to use an established setting. Most of the bugs have been worked out there. In D&D for example there is the decanter of endless water. It is rare and VERY expensive to buy or make precisely to prevent this sort of thing.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)05:54 No.10000485
    Eh he... even more awkward... well, I'm not entirely sure that I want to tell this story in RPG form and not as, say, a novel.

    See, it's just that /tg/ is so creative and helpful! And most people here know a thing or two about fantasy. And to be honest, I do love the idea of just designing a setting for an RPG and allowing other people to construct their own stories. Kind of like Planescape, and... well, to be fair, that's the only major alternate setting I know.

    Hehe, I now love that term. BEHOLD! Slightly damp rocks!

    Here, let's go back to the basics and see if we can work out what is needed, and how to make this, or something similar work:

    The basic idea behind this setting is that it's made up of isolated communities, where travel is dangerous and difficult. So therefor there needs to be a way for these communities to... exist, in an otherwise deadly world.

    Finally, I was hoping to have a setting where magic has replaced science in how it effects everyday life. And (this'll sound weird), a setting where ranged combat and close combat are roughly equally matched. This is because I just like Hollywood shoot-em-ups and all that Asian swordplay.

    I know, weird disparate elements. But all this stuff I described to you is the best way I have so far to implement it.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:00 No.10000575
    In one of the later discworld books, the dwarves living under Ankh-Morpork unearth some kind of engine called an "axle". There's only three of these known to exist. it's a pair of cubes joined at once face that slowly rotate in opposite directions but with infinite torque (that is, no matter how much force you place on them they continue to turn at the same speed).

    It's gifted to Lord Vetinari, and apparently ends up being used to power pretty much all of the industry in the city. You can understand how even with a slow speed it can be increased by stepping up in gears and something like that used to power pretty much anything at any speed? The upper limit is only determined by how much force or friction the attached mechanisms can handle.

    Even a very small amount of perpetual motion or perpetual energy can do huge things, and easily break a setting if you're not careful.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:03 No.10000623

    Heh. That brings to mind one of my game-breakers: ever-smoking bottle + cloudkill. Place at entrance to Underdark, become a god.


    It's cool. Think of us as providing a service. We're pre-breaking your game, so your PCs don't get a chance to! The first rule of DMing, a corollary of The Law of Unintended Consequences, is that PCs will do two things you anticipated, and eight that you didn't. That's why it's good you brought this to us: so that we can go over the eight you didn't, and you can anticipate, plan, and refine. We've already seen good ideas like this, and how unanticipated consequences cause DMs to run out of "Yes, but"s and fall back on "NO". This gets feelings hurt and can destroy games.

    In this case, it's that PCs will find a way to exploit any source of power (the abstract, not electricity) that you give to them. The stones are an obvious source of power. The upside is that this is going to make them coveted, by anyone and everyone. One way to head off some of their wacky hijinks is to already have some of this stuff pre-generated. The city already has a water stone-powered mill, thank you very much, and a hammer mill to boot. It's even got a heat stone powered forge -- tightly controlled by the blacksmith's guild, of course -- and that's the best place to get all of your top-quality gear (at a top quality price). They start coming up with really crazy innovations, that's where you can step in and say, "Whoa there Archimedes. And your character can come up with this shit HOW, again?"
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:06 No.10000660
    Man you guys are all a bunch of stoners!
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:11 No.10000741
    Heat Stone: Small ones might be equipped to troops during winter or in the Northern wastes to keep them warm.

    Air Stone: "Damn it, I am the King! My cloak will ALWAYS flap majestically in the breeze, even when I'm indoors! Stick that fucking Air Stone into my tunic!"

    Water Stone: Useful for milling, without the need for a river or partcularly strong winds.

    Light Stone: ... it's light. Useful at night.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:12 No.10000742
    Hehe, I already feel like I'm dangerously close to ripping off Discworld...

    But yeah, now that I can imagine. The implications are really impressive. And yes, technically that's what these rocks are doing, fair enough. But I guess it's just harder to visualize.

    Hehe, yeah. And I do appreciate it! I really do! Ugh... sounds like these games would kickass if it weren't for the players. =3

    Although there are indeed basic problems that are popping up in my mind. By my guesstimation, it would take... let's say a dozen or more stones to power even a small, simple airship. So if those exist, then it means that the stones can't be too rare. Same thing with forges. Which doesn't sound too bad until, well... you introduce whole societies into the mix, as everyone's said.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:13 No.10000751
    If you want to sandbox the setting, go ahead. Odds are your players will ignore the magic rocks and just go hit things with pointy metal sticks.

    But it only takes one clever bastard to start steam-punking it up. Then you have brass and goggles everywhere.

    If you want certain requirements, then just define them. Airships and crossbows and some kind of force-field that lets ships fly into space. How? Magic rocks. Why not X? Because magic rocks, that is why!

    You may want to look up the Blade Runner dialogue between Rutger Hauer and his creator about why the replicants only have five years to live. It's pure technobabble making zero sense, but gets the point across. It's a magic rock setting, that is why!
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:17 No.10000825
    Haha! I like the cape one.

    Alright, here's my current plan, let's see how it sounds: the stones are fairly common but people are just... too stupid to set them up for more complex / long term things. If the PCs wanted to break the game, wouldn't it take at least several years to harness a stone in some kind of freakishly powerful way?

    Haha, good poi-


    HEY! An idea just came into my brains! What if the stones only retain their power for a few years before the power is transferred to some other stone? Do to the relative rarity of the stones, it would hinder most long-term plans
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)06:18 No.10000838
    Dammit. I forgot my name. You could probably tell from the huge pile of words and the plentiful ellipses...
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:19 No.10000861

    And there are handwave methods of controlling this like >>10000751 said, and non-handwave methods like their power being a function of their mass. So a heat stone powerful enough to run a forge is going to mass enough that you can't just pick it up and carry it around. Nor will you have to worry about EVERYBODY HAS JETPACKS, because a stone powerful enough to lift a person is going to be massive enough that it's not going to lift a person AND ITSELF, and will be too bulky to be practical.

    And I guarantee that someone is going to scream RAILROADING!, but remember, this setting is a diversion for a very bored god. They start mucking with shit too much, he might have to take an active interest. They bring about Steampunk Jetsons-level tech, and one day, BAM! They wake up six months ago, before their dickery started, with only vague impressions of what went on during the time period. If they go to screw with things again out of spite, they start feeling uneasy, like there's a reason they shouldn't do it that's tickling in the back of their brain. BAM! Another reversal, only this time they specifically remember a god-being telling them to cut that shit out.
    >> Crube !uDvDt64Bf2 05/23/10(Sun)06:22 No.10000898
    I had a thought:

    if the stones are rare, then hording of the stones would occur and wars etc.

    if less powerful versions are more common, then that wouldn't happen and you will end up with a pretty satisfied society.

    i would compare it to real minerals and gems. most people own gold, and a couple of diamonds. if these were stones capable of very basic functions, the need to aquire and horde (and increase civil unrest in the process) ALL OF THE STONES BWA HA HA HA is lessened as even the farmer down the road has a flask with a water rock inside that keeps it topped up.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:25 No.10000942
    >HEY! An idea just came into my brains! What if the stones only retain their power for a few years before the power is transferred to some other stone? Do to the relative rarity of the stones, it would hinder most long-term plans

    There ya go! Now they're not infinite energy engines. Make it so that once they're harvested from wherever they naturally occurred, they start slowly losing power. They're good for months to years, but eventually, you're going to have to swap it out. This gives you an entire consumables economy aspect. Also, naturally-occurring stones could have powerful effects, and people structure their behavior around them. ("This water stone creates a torrent, and that's why we have our mill here." Or building the steampunk equivalent of a Paris Gun around a naturally occurring air stone and fortifying it.)
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:29 No.10000996
    Hah, good point. And I suspect that if I could nail down the precise output of each kind of stone, it wouldn't be as big of a problem... it's tough though.

    Mmhmm, true. Maybe the larger ones are horded. To be honest, I really would like to come up with some way to keep them being fairly common. At least enough so that they can have some application in the average person's life.

    And I just thought: wouldn't the wind stones roll and flop around?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:31 No.10001026
    An RPG setting is a lot like fiction, or any kind of writing. If you are writing it, why? What function does it serve? If it isn't contributing to your end goal it doesn't belong, get rid of it.

    "Because it is cool." is a valid reason for inclusion. But cool is atmosphere, chrome. It shouldn't distract from the focus. Doing a Napoleon story and he has a samurai sword he got from the Japanese ambassador? Well it is ahistorical because pre-Perry, but cool. He has a Piper Cub or a Maxim gun he got somehow? Equally ahistorical but changes everything about the setting.

    What purpose do the magic rocks serve? Why include them?
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)06:32 No.10001030

    Huh, that's an interesting idea, to be sure. Gives new meaning to The Windy City... sorry. Damn puns...

    And I like the idea of towns / cities each having their own kind of theme.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:34 No.10001061
    What about using Air stones for projectile weapons? A sort of air rifle, firing projectiles without a need for gunpowder.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)06:39 No.10001127
    Ho ho. Way ahead of you. To be honest, that was, uh... kind of a big reason for the power stone idea. Here's one mention: >>9996292

    Best explanation is... lemme find it...

    Here, second part: >>10000485
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:40 No.10001143
         File1274611254.jpg-(51 KB, 320x319, Gsbox.jpg)
    51 KB
    >no hits
    No one else thought it seemed kinda similar? Take a look at this and the sequel (play them, they're awesome, but that might take longer than you want). I think the setting and backstory might give you a few ideas.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:42 No.10001167
    I loved the original, but then I saw that the second didn't star the original characters, despite the incredibly open ending, and I was like :|
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:44 No.10001185
    ...did you play the second? And aside from Jenna, I think I preferred two's cast.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)06:45 No.10001196
    Huh, never heard of it. I'll look it up.

    It does sound similar.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)06:48 No.10001210
    I thought that it was >implied that I didn't. I was turned off when I read that the game goes from the "YOUR JOURNEY HAS JUST BEGUN!" ending to following some random cunt.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:02 No.10001349
    It's about Felix, Jenna, Kraden and the two new people you pick up to fill out the party. You find out more about the backstory, why you're doing what you're doing, and the consequences of not doing it. And you do meet up with your original party, eventually; literally, if you still have your game, as you can transfer your info across. Starts immediately after the end of the original, too.

    Was pretty sweet.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:15 No.10001469

    It doesn't STAR them, but they do join your party near the end of the game. You meet up with them and your party goes from 4 to 8.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)07:18 No.10001484
    So anywho...

    Any better ideas for the setting's name? Literally anything would be better than Bucketworld and Rockworld.
    >> Flee !!TRanvZl56g3 05/23/10(Sun)07:18 No.10001487
    Air Stones? Water Stones? So damn cliched.

    We're not living in a 90s RPG. You're allowed to grow your own brain and make something interesting.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)07:20 No.10001503
    Somehow I doubt you've read the thread...
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:21 No.10001515

    Given the alchemical elemental thing you're going for, how about calling it Azoth? I generally don't like "X-world" names.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)07:22 No.10001536
    What's that a reference to?
    >> Flee !!TRanvZl56g3 05/23/10(Sun)07:23 No.10001546

    I've read the thread and it sickens me.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:24 No.10001556

    Azoth is an alchemical panacea, an "ideal" substance like alkahest. It was what most alchemists were out to achieve through their art.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:24 No.10001564
    Because you're an unimaginative twit who can't think his way out of a paper bag?
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:25 No.10001567
    Given that the only things you're interested in are avatarfagging, blogging on imageboards, and huge dicks, saying something "sickens you" is a pretty big Seal of Approval.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:26 No.10001578
    Hmm... can't tell if you're a "troll" or not. I'm new to this.

    We're talking about a small stone that produces a slight breeze. That's not... a very widely used idea, I think. This thread is just about how to harness those things in a believable way. And even if something's cliched, that doesn't make it bad as long as you put your own twist on it.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)07:28 No.10001599

    Aren't you dodging something like your third permaban? I'd say your opinion and $5 will get you a cup of coffee, assuming a cup of coffee is $5.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)07:28 No.10001600
    Ah, thanks. In retrospect, I should have just wikipedia-ed it...
    >> dice2 05/23/10(Sun)07:31 No.10001640
    I disagree with you Flee. It's not the stones that are the subject, but the extended implications that come from them. I don't think you've read the thread.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)07:36 No.10001696
    But ignoring this Fleu guy, let's discuss something a little more specific:

    Okay, You have access to all of these stones, a reasonable collection. And you need to design some machine. Something that is instantly usable. Furnace, airship, etc. What do you make?

    Just to be clear, this is to weed out the "infinitely powerful endless game-breaking power source" aspect, and see what tools would be like.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)08:01 No.10001940

    I've already given you most of my real killers over the course of the thread. The biggest ones are going to be those that save labor, those that multiply productivity (especially in farming), and those that are shortcuts to more advanced skills and processes. Think of the things where the impact will not only be immediate, but important. Where did humans first and most often innovate? Agriculture, menial labor, transportation, commerce, and war.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)08:14 No.10002045
    Hmm, okay, thanks so much for the help! =3

    So to summarize:
    - irrigating crops
    - skillful metallurgy
    - lighting
    - home heating / cooling
    - plumbing
    - possibly mass-produced rock items (if we go with the, um... "stone stone")

    I think the one thing I'm having trouble with is what hydraulic / pneumatic tools would be like, and would look like. I guess people could have pneumatic outlets in their homes the way we have electrical outlets.
    >> Anonymous 05/23/10(Sun)08:26 No.10002188
    >>9995636 is right
    Almost anything that uses energy (heating, electricity production, cooking, plant growth, etc) can now be directly or indirectly (stone to turbine to electricity to battery to car) powered by your creations. All this free energy would fuel rapid development and growth in the civilization.
    >> Dr. Theodore Lagore 05/23/10(Sun)08:37 No.10002332
    But... let's just assume the people there are too dim to think of that, or more likely: these rocks just suddenly appeared in neolithic society about five years ago, okay? What technologies have been invented/

    Let's just start there so I have some kind of baring on the technology.

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