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  • File : 1298944712.jpg-(37 KB, 375x523, Podsap Caretaker.jpg)
    37 KB Pokemon and MtG Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)20:58 No.14080098  
    Sup /tg/,
    Earlier I posted a thread expressing my interest in making a Pokemon-related MtG set in response to what I see as Latias' colossal bungling of the entire concept. (see his /tg/ thread, which should be on page 8 or something) I think the concept has a lot of potential for experiencing the playstyle of Magic in new ways, so I've drafted up the first 15 cards of the set.

    Note: In this set, "Pokemon" replaces all instances of the word "Creature". "Player" might be renamed "Trainer," but I'm already barely comfortable with the pokemon thing, it's just a simplicity factor to make the Offering mechanic fit as the evolution mechanic.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:00 No.14080135
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    I did something like this.
    >> I bet I know the answer to this. Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:02 No.14080152
    What do the splash counters do?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:02 No.14080158
    You do know there is already a pokemon tcg right?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:02 No.14080160
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    The first set will probably have about 50-70 individual pokemon spread across a Core-set-esque set, mechanically and size-wise.

    Themes right now are the Offering mechanic from Kamigawa, reflavored as the evolution of Pokemon and a sub-theme of +1/+1 counters and growth to synergize with the flavor of evolution. This means that the set, and probably the Pokemagic variant as a whole, will be extremely creature-centric, increasing the contextual power level and relevance of spells that affect the board state in any way. Something to keep in mind when designing. Also the Offering mechanic means that enters- and leaves-play abilities will be more powerful and have greater opportunities for clever play and card synergies, which has the unfortunate side-effect of somewhat alienating newer players due to complexity.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:02 No.14080161
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    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:03 No.14080172
    Can't we just adapt the Level Up concept from Rise of the Eldrazi and add Pokemon art and call it a day? The current Pokemon CCG is already pretty good and implements the weakness/resistance system pretty well. I like the idea but in the end the mechanics are already there and all we really need to add are some Pokemon words and art.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:06 No.14080220
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    Of course. This is just a fun side project. Also, I find the gameplay of Magic to be far preferable to the strange coin-flipping mess of Pokemon.
    What Pokemon are iconic enough to be an auto-include in a basic Magic set? Also any Pokemon art that doesn't suck would be much appreciated. I'll dump the art for any card if someone wants it. In return, I'm looking particularly for Pidgey-Pidgeotto-Pidgeot art. >_>
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:07 No.14080246
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    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:08 No.14080261
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    I lol'd. The Gyrados mechanic is pretty cool, but it's much more hilarious if the splash counters do nothing.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:09 No.14080277

    That's a really bad deal.

    First of all, you'll need to attack three times with your magikarp, THEN you'll need to pay 8 mana for a 7/7 with an underwhelming ability.

    The whole point of championing is that it makes creatures cheaper
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:10 No.14080293
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    I might change this ability to some kind of mass +1/+1 counter shenanigans for your whole team, but there's a lot of aggro fliers in white and green could definitely use the tools to deal with them.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:11 No.14080308
    What is championing?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:12 No.14080323
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    I want Wizards to print this ability on a normal Magic card. Because mono-red aggro isn't fast enough right now.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:13 No.14080329
    You have to exile a creature of a certain type when it comes into play. Then that championed creature comes back when the new one dies.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:14 No.14080344
    gyarados was never that great anyway. And you have to jump a thousand hurdles just to get one in the real games too. I think I emulated that well enough.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:14 No.14080345
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    I love everything about this art except for the shit-ugly solid background. If i can find a better piece that background will proably be a dealbreaker on that art.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:15 No.14080362
    I didnt play recent magic sets that much but even one year ago creatures were already much more powerful then what you are posting.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:16 No.14080365
    Yeees. this is how you make an m/tg/ pokemon set.
    Although you can probably end up doing a block with just the first 150 pokemon.

    I approve.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:18 No.14080399
    Are you serious? Kuldotha Red turn 2-3 kill not fast enough for you?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:18 No.14080404
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    I disliked Latias' Evolve mechanic because it searched your library directly for the evolution and put it on. That takes literally all of the randomness or spontaneity out of the play, and eliminates the awesomeness of some "suddenly Charizard!" moments. I didn't like Champion because then creatures are somehow "devolving" when they die. Offering can create similar situations if you use graveyard recursion, but that's the least flavorfully jarring option, I think, and I'm willing to make small flavor sacrifices to smooth out large-scale gameplay like that.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:20 No.14080423
    I'm not sure I like the idea of making several cards per pokemon. All pokemon of the same species are basically identical, it's not like 2 goblins where they can be completely different.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:22 No.14080463
    In the pokemon video game, whilst there was obviously differences, the main ones are in the moves. The restriction of four moves per pokemon means that your blastoise can be wildly different from mine, even if it's the same in all the other aspects.

    In the anime, there has been circumstances where pokemon of the same species differentiated themselves from each other, even if we were just to take Ash's Squirtle.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:23 No.14080470
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    Those are valid concerns. I'm not worried about how the set or sets will perform against real Magic cards as long as everything plays smoothly and enjoyably in a vacuum. I will guarantee that if I maintain focus long enough to amass a decently sized cardpool and start playtesting and developing serious changes will be made, and frequently, in the interest of smoothing out the play process. My overall goal is simply to maintain the quality of the Magic play experience (unmatched in tcg's, in my opinion, although there are many I haven't played) with the flavorful experience of a pokemon battle, and make something that people can enjoy.

    And also to rub Latias' face in it, but that was really only right at the beginning. Rage fuels creativity.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:23 No.14080473
    If I remember my old gyarados pokemon card, you could change him to just be 7/7 and give him a +1/+1 counter for every magikarp in the graveyard.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:25 No.14080505
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:26 No.14080513
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    I'm joking of course, but I wanted Red to have a good aggro component. Also, all the starter cycles are designed to be able to ramp into the evolved form on turn two and again on turn 3 with proper draws (gaining one potentially dominant board presence at the expense of two creatures on the board and 3 cards total). Expect removal to be extremely strong in this set.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:28 No.14080542
    reported for off-board content
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:29 No.14080554
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    Note that unlike Champion using Offering means that evolution is an all-upside option and never a downside (since you can just hardcast the evolved form if you don't want to sacrifice board presence). This means that we can't get away with making retardedly powerful shit at the third tier just because you need to evolve twice to get there.

    That being said, Charizard's ability is cute flavor-wise, but I feel like it's going to playtest horribly and get changed a lot at some point.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:30 No.14080562
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    I actually lol'd
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:30 No.14080571
    This seems promising, how can I join you?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:32 No.14080593
    You already got your own fucking board, you need to shit up ours now?

    Fuck off, pokefaggots.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:33 No.14080598
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    They're not though. Two pokemon can learn vastly different moves from one another even if they're the same species (and on a more technical level, have differing EV values and starting stats). To say nothing of other media, where pokemon display obvious trends of individualism among one another (background herds of whatever-the-fuck excluded)

    And from a gameplay perspective, making the card distribution a pyramid means that you'll have more copies of the lower evolutions, which mirrors the way you would normally curve out a Magic deck, and also gives you more consistent evolutions (by giving you 8 bulbasaurs instead of 4)
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:33 No.14080608
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    Smoke more.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:35 No.14080624
    yeah that is for the video games and Other stuff.
    TCG is legal here.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:36 No.14080639
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    Download Magic Set Editor and mock some stuff up, I'd love to see your ideas:

    That goes for everyone, I'd love to see what people have in their brains. Just try to stay on theme (Evolution, +1/+1 counters) and think of interesting ways the mechanics can work with each other. 2nd-tier evolutions are the Offering cards with the lowest rarities, so they'll get the Offering reminder text. Keep this in mind if you're designing a particularly sweet Raticate or something, you don't want the ability to be too incredibly long
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:37 No.14080652
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    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:37 No.14080654
    Looked over there...
    /b/ for pokemon/.....
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:38 No.14080660
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    I forgot, Blue's ramp is slower and less aggressive than the other colors', but they make up for it with two very annoying-looking Squirtles.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:38 No.14080674
    Just a note.
    Shroud basically disallows it to to be the target for a offering...
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:40 No.14080695
    >target for Offering
    >implying Offering targets
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:41 No.14080712

    (You may cast this card any time you could cast an instant by sacrificing X and paying the difference in mana costs between this and the sacrificed X. Mana cost includes color.)

    no instances of the word target.
    you choose the card.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:41 No.14080720
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    Man, I was upset about the wakfu faggots too, but not everything is black and white.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:41 No.14080724
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    My very own troll. How aborable!
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:43 No.14080743
    Is this about 40k? D&D? Shit like that?


    We don't need pokemon spam here fucktard. Go back to your ghetto.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:44 No.14080757
    Legit: If the janitors tell me to stop, I will. But i really don't think a thread about a custom Magic set, unless it was a set about hardcore porn, could ever be deletable content on /tg/. The board for /traditional games/. Of which Magic is one.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:45 No.14080768
    Seeing that you have to choose a specific card to sacrifice and use a base to define the mana cost?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:46 No.14080779
    But NOT fucktarted pokemon pirate sets. It's for the legitimate game. now fuck off.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:48 No.14080797
    what are you, 19
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:48 No.14080801
    If an ability doesn't have the word "target" in it, it doesn't target. Period. Literally zero exceptions, ever.

    114.1d A triggered ability is targeted if it identifies something it will affect by using the phrase
    “target [something],” where the “something” is a phrase that describes an object, player, or
    zone. The target(s) are chosen as the ability is put on the stack; see rule 603.3d.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:49 No.14080824
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    i am actually very intrigued by this OP. i love pokemon and i love mtg. how long have you been doing this? do you have a website to where you will continue to do this so after this thread is over people who are still interested in either the concept and/or contributing can go? also i think having the flavor of each of mtg's card types would make it better. e.g. red has direct damage and haste etc, blue has control/draw power, white has life gain vig stuff, black has removal etc. keep up the good work!
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:50 No.14080831
    I admit to the rules that I am wrong. Not to you... to the rules.
    I kid. I see where I was wrong.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:51 No.14080844
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    Color identity will always supersede pokemon type in this project. Not all Poison pokemon will be black (black and green, mostly), not all Ghost pokemon will be black (black and white mostly, although depending on the ability you could probably put one in any color).

    This is the last card I have art for, because every piece of art featuring pidgey or pidgeotto is a piece of shit.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:53 No.14080867
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    Other random art I didn't use, or just haven't used yet.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:55 No.14080893
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    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:56 No.14080903
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    I sweat to god I am putting this on an instant/sorcery
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)21:57 No.14080914
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    LOL. swear*

    Full art for Charizard
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:04 No.14081023
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    This name sucks.

    Take that, Demon of Death's Gate!
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:05 No.14081029
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    you have a website that people might be able to collaborate to later on?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:06 No.14081058
    Not at the moment. I made all this in a fit of rage. I could set up like a Blogspot or something later? What sort of site would be best for everyone to use?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:10 No.14081116
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    goddamn you, it's 3am.
    I made a cubone and a marowak. what do you think?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:11 No.14081140
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    The pictures could be better, but yeah.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:13 No.14081158
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    ya a blogspot would be nice. seeing how locating and finding random threads when you make them on whatever board would be quite hard for followers and supporters of this. it would be cool to see all that you've come up with and future things you have created and maybe other people can submit their things as well.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:33 No.14081448

    I, personally, really LIKE the card... however... It's damn powerful. One could just hardcast it for five to get 6 power with flying on 4 bodies. That's pretty intense...

    Looking forward to more updates and considering adding some myself.
    >> Melonbomb !!RyDIqJJ72q/ 02/28/11(Mon)22:36 No.14081481
    Can we have Divination in this set? With Bill?

    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:49 No.14081647
    I like how you do it, using subtypes for evolution is really awesome, and offering both gets the evolution down, and means that the higher ups aren't dead draws.

    It may take some work to integrate the designs into a modern standard, but unlike cases in which people just up the power level, this just uses sub types in a kamagawi-sque way (which is fine for a thought experiment of a set)
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)22:49 No.14081654
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    Wasn't entirely sure what to do with the beginning, but have some weedles/kakunas/beedrill.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)22:50 No.14081657
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    The line deviates, you have the friendly green ones or the less-friendly black ones.

    although the art for this one is way too adorable.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)22:52 No.14081677
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    Although after posting these guys, I'm off to bed, I'd love to hear about what'll be happening.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:53 No.14081685



    cheap common green semi removal?

    seems a bit much.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)22:54 No.14081697
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    Flavour change: Kakunas don't die because they just keep regenning. This one has been given a LOT of protein.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)22:56 No.14081726
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    It's been done before, although a mana cost of 1 would probably make it way more balanced than it is now.

    This is where the line ends and there's no green. Beedrills are black-mana territory now. Especially ones with the title The Impaler.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)22:57 No.14081740
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    I didn't make that clear.

    here's a revised version.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)22:59 No.14081768

    such as?

    a 4 mana enchant tapped creature isn't as flexable or as powerful, as a creature with T: tap something.

    also, royal assassin is not so good as to make a flyer that will likely want to attack have RA's ability as bad removal option not be mostly wasted space.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)23:00 No.14081779
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    so tired forgot the damned p/t.

    Do you like how some of the cards has synergy if they're on the field together? Slowsapper and Venin together is silly synergy, whilst Rayborne Shell helps you Rayshunned Assailor's and Venin's double mana cost.
    >> Not OP 02/28/11(Mon)23:02 No.14081804
    ssh. It's four am. Don't expect amazing work for now.
    Just email me with a project website.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:02 No.14081814

    I would bump it up a rarity and most it cost 2 to use its ability.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:04 No.14081847
    /r/ing for the rest of the Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot set.
    >> Zach !!m1zNwNhpIw+ 02/28/11(Mon)23:05 No.14081858
    If you could make a Paras/Parasect creature duo, that would be awesome.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:07 No.14081884
    Wow! this is some seriously cool shit. it's nice to see someone here on /tg/ who actually can design some decent mtg cards. longtime mtg addict here, just wanted to let you that these look awesome, and like they'd be a lot of fun to play while still maintaining the feel and balance of mtg.
    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:10 No.14081936
    >well designed cards
    >Gyarados is an unplayable jank card that will sit dead in your hand the vast majority of the time, and even when he is cast is just a 7/7 for 8 with flying and a mediocre ability.

    This guy has even less of an idea what he's doing than me.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:12 No.14081958
    You need a butterfree or whatever. Also, that beedrill has no p/t. I don't like the -1/-1 counter bit. That makes it worse than royal assassin.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:15 No.14081996
    well yeah, power level shit is a little off on a few, buyt the general concept and gameplay flow of using offering for evolution is good. it groks well.

    mana discount in exchange for board precense is good, and can be used well. the squirtles and charmanders etc. all looked really cool, and were all pretty solid without being completely derptarded. i'dve made the charizard ability cost 1R or 2R, but whatever. power level of the cards is for development. getting what you want the card to do, and do so interestingly, grokably, and within color pie / set flavor is the key of design.

    a bad gyarados doesn't invalidate the rest of the good ideas.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:16 No.14082017
    the worse than royal assassin is part of the point. do you attack with the 5/5 flyer, or shrink him to kill something else. choices encourage good gameplay. (at least according to Mtg design for the last couple of years) and it makes sense so far.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:18 No.14082047
    he's still developing the cards dude. also he's trying to keep the flavor of the pokemon. e.g. magikarp was annoying and tedious as fuck to make into a gyradoes, but when you did it was worth it. i would agree the mana cost is a bit much on him though
    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:20 No.14082071

    But offering for evolution is a questionable mechanic, because it makes the game more luck based than normal, and doesn't really have benefits that outweigh the negatives caused by this. The power level of offering swings wildly, it's overpowered on a good hand and underpowered on a bad hand, whereas most mechanics stay at a stable power level.

    Evolution mechanics in my set have been discussed really extensively over three threads, for the record. I'm not saying my way is 100% right, just that offering isn't a genius idea that's super totally awesome, as it has its flaws too.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:22 No.14082094
    that 1 mana to tap weedle is pretty OP. specially for just 1g. id say make him at least 1g1c or 2 to tap. imo
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:22 No.14082098

    does it really?

    offering makes removal worse, because they can remove in response, and it means that a given creature isn't a dead card.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:23 No.14082105
    would you be able to post some of your cards? i have not seen your threads before
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:24 No.14082123

    you attack with a 5/5 flyer.

    That's the reason that there are few tap ability dragons (i.e. evasive fatties) , and most of said dragons with tap effects can use used to do direct damage.

    That's why they made the Invasion block dragons have saboteur abilities and not tap effects.
    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:24 No.14082124

    When you're developing cards, you need constructive criticism to make them better, for the record. At any rate, this didn't stop him from shitting up my thread, about how I'm a terrible person because I discuss things with the community at length before making decisions instead of just making it how he wanted it.

    I wouldn't care if somebody who was more skilled than me made a Pokemon MtG set, but it really ticks me off when some guy shits up my thread like that and then goes on to design terrible cards with little thought put into making them fun to play, while insulting me in his thread.

    Ah well, I suppose I'm sort of doing the same thing now, aren't I? I'll just get to making my own thread for the day and forget about this thread. Good like with the project, OP, but please reconsider your stance of hostility towards me just because I didn't make some things the way you consider the correct way.
    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:26 No.14082154

    Alternative evolutions mechanics we discussed in my threads could still have this feature, although it was actually decided against in the sake of making Evolve not too powerful. The current incarnation of Evolve in my project can still do the neat trick where you attack then evolve to have a blocker, though.


    I just woke up and am getting ready to make my thread for the day, just look out for it. Not gonna derail OP's thread any more than I already have.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:28 No.14082175
    eh, i didn't say all that, i just said that it's nifty and understandable.

    also - i don't see how it exactly makes the game more luck based. it's not mandatory like champion was, it's an optional method to reduce mana cost by sacrificing board presence. It makes it a bit more a gamble that your opponent doesn't have instant speed removal, but hell, so do a lot of other things in magic.

    I just don't think it'd be too hard to find the sweet spot in costs for evolved mons, where they are playable with saccing and without. the 3 starter chains I saw seem really good for that. these honestly seem like some decent commons and uncommons I'd see in an actual booster, unlike almost every other custom mtg thread here on /tg/ that is usually half full of people who don't understand how the rules work, the color pie, or other important things. in comparison, these seem pretty good.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 02/28/11(Mon)23:31 No.14082193
    Yeah, that Gyarados/Magikarp isn't mine. Nice try though. And it would be difficult for me to know less about what I'm doing than you and still have the requisite language skills necessary to post about it on the internet.

    Offering creates dynamic play situations, something that your Evolve mechanic neuters entirely, by taking the excitement of the moment of evolution and converting it into an easily-predictable strategic stepping stone. It also allows you to play the creatures at instant speed, and forces you to actually commit to a group of pokemon instead of just running a shitton of tool-box decks because you know you can just Evolve-tutor your best stuff out.
    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:36 No.14082254
    >It also allows you to play the creatures at instant speed, and forces you to actually commit to a group of pokemon instead of just running a shitton of tool-box decks because you know you can just Evolve-tutor your best stuff out.

    The current evolution mechanic in our project can work at instant speed too, you know.

    Great to see you're hostile as ever, though. Maturity isn't for the internet, eh?
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 02/28/11(Mon)23:39 No.14082287
    I like Cubone better than Marawak, but both of these are pretty good. Marawak's tap ability creates too much tension with his 4/3 body. I would make it a combat damage trigger, so:

    Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, you may remove target card in that player's graveyard from the game. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on ~.

    I like some of these, but the green Weedle is definitely outside of green's slice of the pie. I was hoping to establish creature types across colors a bit with the first set though, so i'm definitely on the same page.

    I've been thinking about having the 3rd-level Evos be legendary creatures, and as awesome as it is, it probably creates more rules baggage than it's worth, since your opponent's Charizard makes your Charizard into a six-mana removal spell that only targets Charizards. Expect to see those reflavored soon.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 02/28/11(Mon)23:41 No.14082307
    Bro, I'm going to be as blunt as possible:
    Your set is really bad.
    Do some playtesting. PLEASE do some playtesting, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
    And a tip: Don't implement the "one status at a time" rule, because you're going to end up with control decks immune to status ailments because they can just poison their own shit in response to your sleep/paralysis/burn.
    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:43 No.14082333
    >Your set is really bad.

    As usual, you provide no explanation for this, just think that stating your opinion makes you right.

    For the record poisoning your own Pokemon via certain held items is a tactic in competitive Pokemon, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:43 No.14082341
    I am seeing an awful large quantity of apparent resentment between this latias guy and whoever op is.

    >> Latias !!6Yt1vvHfdEj 02/28/11(Mon)23:45 No.14082365

    No, I would be perfectly happy with somebody who was really skilled at doing this taking my spot as developer of a Pokemon MtG project, but I resent how this guy acts and considers himself so fucking amazing that his opinion is always right and is more valuable than the discussion of an entire thread.
    >> Muscles T. Glasses !!SExOgYStK+N 02/28/11(Mon)23:48 No.14082407
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    am i doing it right?
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:52 No.14082447
    This. Both your sets are bad, stop bitching at each other.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:53 No.14082463
    also - latias - I have never seen any of the stuff you did, but one thing does come to mind from reading this - If the point is to make pokemon mtg, why try to emulate the actual system of pokemon? wouldn't you rather have a magic set that happens to have pokemon in it, than a set that tries to make the mechanics of pokemon be in mtg? this just comes to mind from the status effect thing that other guy said, and to be honest, that just sounds bad. I'd have to see your cards, but trying to have status effects and stuff from pokemon seems awkward. why not have them be traditional MtG creature affecting things like tapping or whatnot?

    seriously not trying to troll here, but from what I've seen, slavishly adhering to everything you're trying to adapt something from in a different game system just doesn't work. you have to make adjustments to make it feel more like the game you're importing it into, otherwise, why bother adapting it to a different system?

    sidenote : spore puncher breloom, point mon, all day, erry dar here. I love me some toxic orb. I just don't see that working well with MtG.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:54 No.14082474
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    Who the fuck is this Latias dude and why is he shitting up this thread?

    Also, does /tg/ only play Magic? I've tried making a YGO thread a few times to no response.
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:58 No.14082536
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    Posting some of my YGO Original faggotry in support of this superior Magic Original faggotry.
    >> SRWaddict 02/28/11(Mon)23:59 No.14082552

    nifty concept, but you might want to work on templating. for activated abilities, the mana cost is always the first part, then comma, then other stuff.

    e.g. 3BB, exile top 5 cards of your library; do stuff.

    other than that, my question is"why does he hate on non-basics?" that is some seriously powerful nonbasic hate, even at 6 mana. I might be being retarded, but in fluff, why does he hate on non-basics? He's something something avatar of a piece of nature, right? (I skipped 3rd gen. never got to play it much)
    >> Anonymous 02/28/11(Mon)23:59 No.14082557
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)00:00 No.14082571
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)00:01 No.14082584
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)00:01 No.14082588
    youre the one not actually addressing any of the issues, though. plenty of people have proposed why they disagree with your reasoning, especially in regards to how you are flavouring evolution, and you keep regurgitating this ridiculous argument that you dont want there to be luck in a luck based game.

    furthermore, almost all your designs lacks consistency with colour pie conventions or are unreasonable otherwise and just arent imaginative or evocative of the subject material at all. in trying to be too comprehensive, especially with the rulings on status and the commitment to making 1 card for each pokemon EVER, you are missing the entire point of making a pokemon set by failing to evoke the flavour of pokemon with your bland and cookie cutter designs.

    not OP, but youll think i am anyways. youre just going to say im mindlessly flaming you when we both know damn well that you didnt actually address anything said to you in your last thread outside of your predetermined responses.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)00:08 No.14082661
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    >> Muscles T. Glasses !!SExOgYStK+N 03/01/11(Tue)00:11 No.14082699
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    I took some liberties in the nonbasic hate justification, rayquaza's role is to maintain balance between land and sea. I just took "nonbasic lands" as a representation of imbalance land
    the flavor text is just his pokedex entry.

    hey guess what i just made
    >> SRWaddict 03/01/11(Tue)00:26 No.14082881
    i dunno. most non basics are either something man made like cities or whatnot, or dual land-y bits. so i guess i could see it.

    the breloom is lawl. re-creating the mechanics exactly from pokemon is cute, but that way way undercosted. G to tap and keep tapped something? green can get that effect, but usually it's a trigger on doing combat damage.
    doable as is, but abilities should cost a bit more. sleeping like that should cost more, focus funching should be a bit of a mana investment. at least 2.

    but all in all, not bad, I like it a lot. cards that are a sort of self contained minigame are usually awesome, as long as the payoff is worth it. (see - Mark Rosewater talking about design philosophy) this one seems pretty good. mebbe even good enough for the the guy to cost 5 base. it would honestly depend on how easy removal is to get in draft or whatnot. activate and get bolted or bounced is sadfrog.jpg

    either way, I dig it.
    >> SRWaddict 03/01/11(Tue)00:44 No.14083089
    whelp, another interesting thread suicided by insulted ego. damn. a shame since this one seemed to be an interesting concept.
    >> Muscles T. Glasses !!SExOgYStK+N 03/01/11(Tue)00:48 No.14083138
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    whoops, forgot "shroomish offering"

    yea, now that you mention it he does seem pretty op.

    I really like all the unique names for each pokemon, it would make sense for the actual name to go in the name line but it just sounds too cool. even if they all seem to end in "er"

    I was a little confused why the pokemon types weren't subtypes, but i guess they would work the same as "snow". i do like how the color is completely seprate, based on their play style.

    also am i the only one that thinks that evolution should only work at sorcery speed? besides that, i still like the "offering" keyword. it allows you to get some 1st and 2nd stages without having to go through all the trouble of evolving them first, like in the pokemon TCG.
    >> Muscles T. Glasses !!SExOgYStK+N 03/01/11(Tue)00:53 No.14083185
    i would also think that evolution would not effect the state of the evolver, meaning that auras, equipment, and counters would persist. but hey, thats just me again.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)00:56 No.14083215

    It's already a -1 ability if it works off the hand, so making it instant speed means that you can get utility off screwing with removal.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)01:38 No.14083674
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    Sorry chaps, but weed needed to get smoked like ASAP.
    People were requesting the Pidgeys and Pidgeottos, so here they are. For srs, if anyone has art of these guys that doesn't look like trash, I need it bad, cause I also want art for the Pidgey tokens the Pidgeot makes.

    This Pidgey or the Squirtle that taps will probably have to get axed at some point.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)01:39 No.14083690
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    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)01:58 No.14083881
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    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:00 No.14083910
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    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:13 No.14084062
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:19 No.14084135
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:20 No.14084148
    Had a stupid question. Scrapped it. So here's a card idea... phrasing probably sucks, but I haven't played Magic in quite a while.

    Buffering Buffoon - 2UW - 1/4
    Psychic Pokemon - Mr. Mime
    Tap: As long as Buffering Buffoon remains tapped, whenever a creature you control would be dealt damage, reduce that damage by 1.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:21 No.14084157
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:22 No.14084165
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    Haven't found a good Pidgeotto so far.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:22 No.14084167


    The phrasing isn't that bad, and I can clearly get what you are trying to do.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:25 No.14084202
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    Dude, thank you! Those are perfect!

    I'm going to put a kibosh on Legendary creatures in the first set, barring maybe the 3 Birds. It would hella suck to draw a sweet pokemon and not be able to play it, especially since decks are likely to congregate around splashy powerful rares.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:28 No.14084230
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    Need any pics for the birds?
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:29 No.14084244
    Bro, I need pics for anything and everything that has pokemon on it and looks like it belongs in a Magic frame.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:30 No.14084269
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    This good enough?
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:32 No.14084288
    Possibly. The only problem is that the background is so close to a neutral white, which just looks terrible in a Magic frame. The blue tint might play off the blue frame enough to pull it off, i don;t know.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:33 No.14084305
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    Figured as much, this one is much better though.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:34 No.14084311

    That pidgey's a bit too powerful, methinks. Perhaps raise the ability cost to WW?
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:39 No.14084355
    It's a little ambiguous, but you're right, it could be a little OP. I'll raise the cost to 1W and see how it plays.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:39 No.14084360
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:41 No.14084374
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    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:42 No.14084380
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:42 No.14084385

    that card's already been printed (basically), so it probably will play at least okay.

    granted the enviroment for cold snap might be different then in this PKMN set, but still.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:42 No.14084389
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    Possibly better Articuno art. I'm not sure if the dimensions work well with MTG cards due to me being too lazy to check.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:43 No.14084396
    All three of those are fantastic. Those will make some nice mythics. And I'll probably need some more flying hate sprinkled in here.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)02:54 No.14084479
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    Did someone say green flier hate? I think someone said green flier hate.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:54 No.14084488
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    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)02:56 No.14084494
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    Oh shit that's awesome
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:12 No.14084587
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    Not sure how usable this one will be.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:19 No.14084640
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    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)03:36 No.14084737
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    Have some ghosts, not sure how well I did these.
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)03:37 No.14084744
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    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)03:38 No.14084754
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    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)03:40 No.14084761
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    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:41 No.14084767
    no p/t
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)03:45 No.14084795
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    Just realized what you ment by "theme of +1/+1 counters" and that I broke it with >>14084737. I'll see if I can fix it.

    right, here we go
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)03:49 No.14084819
    Since there are going to be a fair number of +1/+1 counters on creatures, -1/-1 should be used extremely sparingy, if at all, to avoid the creation that creates.
    With Squirtle and Pidgey and now this (AND Haunter), I'm worried this is too many tap effects, and it will unnecessarily lengthen games. In a format based on Pokemon combat, we want aggro to be extremely viable, while control builds require more insight and deckbuilding skill to pull off.
    I'm not sure why Gengar has reach, and I dislike shrinking toughness only, especially in black, it should definitely be a P/T drain every time. I like the idea of draining creatures to gain power, especially with the "dream eater" flavor. I'm thinking rework the black Haunter as a pseudo-Royal Assassin and make the blue Ghastly into some sort of scry effect.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:50 No.14084831

    Great or greatest pokemon?

    Totodile, use Claw!
    *Has no effect*
    Well that sucked
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:51 No.14084839
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    This thread only makes my Tarmogoyf happier. Keep making more super types. MAKE MY GOYF STRONGER!
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)03:52 No.14084847
    Jesus Christ, Goyf would be so ridiculously busted in here...well, more ridiculously busted.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:53 No.14084859
    You should have just used Champion as the mechanic for evolving your Pokemans. Champion a Squirtle, etc.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:54 No.14084862
    Supertpyes don't power up Goyf. Only Types. Snow and Basic don't give goyf power.

    Also, I'd prefer if your pokemon just had pre-existing creature types. Giving each pokemon a nickname seems necessary. Just make the Legendary pokemon Legendary. You don't need 150 new creature types. In fact, when I did a pokemon set with the first 151 I didn't need a single new creature type. Even Mewtwo got Mutant Cat--and that was as far as I had to stretch it really. Bulbasaur is a plant. Venusaur can be a plant dinosaur if you want to stretch it. Electibuzz and Magmar are elementals. Etc...
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)03:55 No.14084866
    But when a Wartortle gets knocked out, he doesn't pop back to being Squirtle, it seems weird...
    It's possible to go that way if all this instant-speed casting with Offering turns out to be too good, but I'd rather just make a version of Offering that was sorcery speed only and see if that worked better.
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)03:57 No.14084887
    >too many tap effects
    sorry, I was trying to make them synergize off each other, I'll revamp both gastlys.
    >why Gengar has reach
    I know, kinda out of the color pie, I was going for a weird (stupid) flavor (since they can all fly)
    >dislike shrinking toughness only
    it's meant to be a "killing blow" deal, but I guess power-drain works with it too.
    >rework the black Haunter as a pseudo-Royal Assassin
    I was trying to avoid that really...
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:57 No.14084889
    Damage doesn't use the stack. Instant speed evolution seems fine if your following anything but the video game and TCG's canon.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)03:58 No.14084890
    The creature type is the only way to get Offering to work right within the rules. And the elemental Supertypes would act like a new sort of "tribal" connection between different pokemon so you could still have themed/synergistic decks.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)03:59 No.14084904

    I think the ability of that Haunter is much too powerful, by turn four you can lock down four of your opponent's creatures permanently. I'd make it tap to do it as well. Otherwise it can just completely dominate the board state, especially in a set that revolves almost entirely around creatures.

    As for the other ghosts, I'm a little iffy on the lopsided -0/-X abilities, but I feel that if they're confined to the Ghastly/Haunter/Gengar evolution chain then it could be just flavorful enough to outweigh the awkwardness.

    That first Ghastly is a bit too overpowered (look at http://magiccards.info/som/en/63.html for comparison). Perhaps if you made it so as to keep the -1/-1 counter in the cost, but the targeted creature got -2/-2 until end of turn instead? Just an idea.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)04:02 No.14084926
    Don't worry about just making "Pokemon versions of Magic cards," especially if they work as well flavorfully as the Haunter's Dream Eater would, or are as necessary as having some kind of creature mana accel in green (Podsap Caretaker)

    Could you post the art for the ghosts you used? It's all really top-shelf stuff
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:03 No.14084930

    I agree with your thoughts on the matter, it would just seem awkward to have them champion their prior evolutions. However since Offering reduces the casting cost, perhaps we should raise the CMC of the majority of the evolved creatures a bit? So that although you ~could~ cast them normally, there's a great incentive to sacrifice the basic forms to reduce that cost.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)04:05 No.14084946
    Without any playtesting done yet, I'm just trying to estimate what they should cost as close as I can figure. Some could easily end up being too good as they are and either have their costs raised or their abilities softened.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:05 No.14084952

    Why not just make it fly, then? Blue and Black each have access to flying (the only colors really constrained to the ground are Green and non-Dragon Red). I can't see why Gengar shouldn't fly anyhow, but if it seems weird you could always just add "B: ~ gains flying until end of turn"
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:08 No.14084969

    Very true, although now I'm wondering that with such specific offering costs, it might be a bit difficult to weigh just what the actual CMC should be. It really will end up being decided by how many pidgeys/weedles/eevees are put into the set.

    Speaking of Eevee, since it has so many eevolutions, could we make Eevee a vanilla Relentless Rats?
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:09 No.14084971
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    now only putting counters on itself
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:11 No.14084983
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    now scrying under a new name
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)04:11 No.14084987
    I'll table the idea of a small subset of creatures that uses -1/-1 counters to fuel abilities like this (like Devoted Druid and co. in Shadowmoor, perhaps). This will also synergize well with the placement of +1/+1 counters, but should probably be held off until a second set.
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:12 No.14084998
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    now an endless 1-cmc more assassinate
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:13 No.14085005
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    now basically a Demon from good-old-mtg
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:14 No.14085015
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    now tapping
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:14 No.14085020
         File1298970892.jpg-(43 KB, 777x604, 8293a52215fbac345981e989796ff0(...).jpg)
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    card art
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:15 No.14085024
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    card art
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:16 No.14085033
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    card art
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:17 No.14085040
         File1298971036.jpg-(188 KB, 1024x768, Gastly_Wallpaper_g41ph.jpg)
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    card art
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:17 No.14085045
         File1298971075.jpg-(61 KB, 1680x1050, Haunter_3.jpg)
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    card art
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:18 No.14085049
         File1298971133.jpg-(28 KB, 900x497, Haunter_by_archus7_EPIC_POKEMO(...).jpg)
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    and another Haunter for good measure
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:25 No.14085088

    Niceness. I like all of them, and I especially like how now both Haunters combine to make a 'Hypnosis/Dream Eater' combo. I don't know if that's what you were going for but flavor wise it's just sexy.
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:28 No.14085103
         File1298971698.jpg-(138 KB, 450x635, 50-haunter.jpg)
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    That is EXACTLY what I was going for
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:30 No.14085118
         File1298971825.jpg-(154 KB, 800x1010, persian_by_blackmystica-d2zg9a(...).jpg)
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    So, looking for alt pokemon art for the cards?
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)04:32 No.14085128
    Yes. Very yes. Where should I be looking? google and dA all turn up the expected amount of absolute trash with 1 or 2 passable drawings and maybe even the occasional good one.
    >> Judgment !7JUDGMeNtA 03/01/11(Tue)04:35 No.14085147
         File1298972127.jpg-(240 KB, 612x842, 2ed0a57f0fce03a02ad1ff6f07e7e3(...).jpg)
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    you can sometimes find some good ones on Danbooru
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:42 No.14085192
    Here, look at my favorites http://realityblind.deviantart.com/favourites/
    Gonna see if I can a upload my pokemon folder to mediafire.
    >> Anonymous 03/01/11(Tue)04:49 No.14085228
         File1298972944.jpg-(336 KB, 900x600, Spirit_of_Vengeance__by_hibbar(...).jpg)
    336 KB
    Damn, folder is too big, but most of the art I have is from deviantart so there shouldn't be a problem.
    >> OP !PdIQkd84SY 03/01/11(Tue)05:10 No.14085368
    Thread has been archived on sup/tg/. I'm gonna go pass out. Got some tweaked versions of the Gastly line in the set file, I'll post them next time I make a thread. And I'll see about setting up a blog or something.

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