Now ideally, the game would be able to be run in any city, perhaps even the players using their own city they reside in. I think there should be though some stock cities just for anyone to be able to play anywhere, as well as provide just a basic vanilla city in which any adventure can take place.

I'm not sure which cities to include though, and to take into consideration, things are to take place in the near-future.

I'm thinking for the stock cities, maybe one for each continent, and then you have the vanilla "nowhere" city. That allows for a wide possibility for the type of scene, gameplay, and theme.

Places like New York, Tokyo, Rio, etc... because each would differ in more than just location. The vanilla "nowhere" would aim to be perhaps an amalgam of the wider themes, or maybe just an ideal future city. It would be able to accommodate all play types though, for anyone who doesn't want specifically one flavor.


Any thoughts on this? I'm not sure if it suits the theme in all respects, but I think it provides flexibility.

I think that covers the basic setting locales, as for their styles or related themes that can be expanded upon later, after working out the background.

The background though I could use help on. I mean there's probably a thousand ways we could come up with to explain the setting, not to mention blending them together. So given the way things are, a near-future world with potential magic shoe outlaws, what are some ways one could imagine to describe or explain the transition from today, to then?

At first I figured using super science to explain everything was the way to go, given the futuristic setting. It would get things where they needed to be and still hang about to provide a consistent balance.

However there is always the possibility of magic, which would speak more to the concept of the characters and their footwear, rather than setting a standard. Plus it doesn't limit the potential to shoes.

The only problem with this I figured, was coming up with some way to flesh out a magic aspect as well as events to explain the setting. Plus it sort of makes it intra-specific, with things relying on the characters rather than the setting. I figure with science at least, you can have things happen that affect everyone, and not have troubles explaining it.

What are some other ways though, that could give rise to the phenomenon of empowered shoe wearers and their shoes (or other)?

Nothing? Huh, I figured more people would pick up on it, I can't do the thing by myself. Maybe just do something else then.

>70's fighting/kung-fu movies but in a future setting, with shoes being the source of people's power.
>we still don't have a name for this
Thunderfoot? Kick Back?

>>14255117

Someone suggested Kung-Shoe or Shoe-Fu, both lol-worthy. Also for simplicity, just Kicks.

Those ones you said are also good though, they should be on the list.

>>14255152
Yeah I was going to go for some foot related puns but they were pretty bad.

I like Kung Shoe, cheesy as it is.

>>14255207

Well they're such a wide variety of names that could work, not even related to that era. And those alone could be a whole category.

Enter the Shoe, Way of the Shoe, all that stuff.

Footloose,

Moonwalk,

Kick Adidass

I got plenty

>>14255275

Those are all great, don't stop!

>Basically for people who weren't around for it, the idea was 70's fighting/kung-fu movies but in a future setting, with shoes being the source of people's power.
I take it this has something to do with the Last Dragon?

>>14255275
Grandmaster of the Order

>>14255314

Well the way we were going about it, was that the future setting is the place, but the plot/theme of the game would be based on old fighting movies of that era.

So yeah, old kung-fu movies, or just fighting ones in general, like The Warriors for example. They give it the style and the pace. The future and locations give it setting, and the shoes give it the combat and driving force.

Just call your game "Kicks."

>>14255382

That's something I was considering. I just wanted everyone's opinion/input, as already there's been a bunch of creativity.

>>14255351

Someone in the earlier thread suggested MJ's shoes to be in the game as relics. Also Fred Astaire's tap shoes.

I'd play this just to be a flamenco dancer/martial artist.

Link related; imagine this place as a dojo instead of a dance school. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxfwm9N1L_4

>>14255428
>MJ's shoes
>Like Mike, but with dancing and kicking ass instead of basketball

>>14255481

Well basing on the system, you aren't limited to fighting. Charisma attacks or displays are completely possible. You could pull a Cuban Pete in downtown Tokyo or New York, with the shoes being the cause. And you're just jiving along with it.

>>14255512
BEST MOTHERFUCKING CAMPAIGN EVER HOLY SHIT

rolled 14 = 14

Hey, what about roller skates and rollerblades? Would those be included?

The speed they would give the wearer would be balanced somewhat by being limited to smooth surfaces. Go up a flight of stairs or into a field of grass in the park and you'd be screwed.

>>14255512

MJ as in Michael Jackson, but Michal Jordan's shoes could also factor in.

We need to make a list of famous or celebrity shoes to have as possible relics for the game.

>>14255532

Well the main thing, dealing with the power of the footwear is the brands mostly.

So if the player can come up with branded roller skates, then they could totally roll with them. This applies to anything really, so long as they are shoes/footwear. Soccer cleats, cowboy boots, etc...

Just so long as they can associate them with a power set lined out in the character creation.

>>14255543

Blue Suede Shoes - charisma up the wazoo, also style points

Ruby Slippers - endgame, most powerful shoes in existence, allows one wish to be granted

I already know what to base my first character on.

>>14255686

Well we actually have to make it a workable game first.

I have no experience making games though, this is my first homebrew. Hence the asking for advice and input.

Okay, I'm really liking this idea. You know, one of those "it's so crazy it has to work" sort of things. From what I gather thus far, we're looking at a game with a very quick pace which would get horribly bogged down with chunky rules. So we're probably gonna have to keep it rules light.

As such, we need to identify a quick-and-dirty core mechanic for resolving conflicts (which there are sure to be many in such a setting). Since I have a feeling there will be a lot of rule-of-cool being used in this setting, how about we use a mechanic based on impressing the GM (using this term for the sake of simplicity) with descriptive, cinematic roleplaying. Award points to characters who really wow the GM.

Let the characters start with a set number of points per session. Perhaps 5 points for the area in which their Kicks specialize in, and 3 points for everything else. For challenges that require the character's Kicks, the DM assigns a difficulty from 1-3, equaling how many points required to pass. Now, you probably notice that the points are kinda scant at first, but here's where party members come in. Even if an ally isn't necessarily participating in a challenge, he/she can lend some of their points to your challenge by some means. Team attack. Inspiration. Lessons learned. Stuff like that. Of course, do enough cool stuff and impress the GM and you'll get more points to use later.

Trying to eliminate dice, but y'all may have more ideas.

Also, pic related. Super quiet shoes will also make you blend in with your surroundings, though not to the extent of bare feet.

>>14257556

Well I think I'd like to have it using dice. Just a d20, with the typical 1-20 low-high rolls, but if that wouldn't fit say so.

>>14257618
Just my opinion thus far. Let's wait to see what everyone has to think of it. Regardless, wonderful idea you got on your hands.

>>14257556

I rather like that system. It might require some careful watching/math from the DM to keep things at a moving pace (so the PC's don't run out of points, or he awards too many), but it certainly makes things simple.

I think for things like stunts, actions, and such, it's perfect. "I want to jump through that window with my feet on fire, and land on both the henchmen below's faces. Have I got enough points for that?"

The only thing I think that might get stuck on is fighting combat, in which PCs are fighting similar opponents attacking them in kind. Then it might be difficult to say "Well I want to deliver a kick to his gut. Put 2 points to the kick" but then another says the same thing with 5 points to the kick. It could get kind of messy.

So I guess, for everything except combat, the points system works really well? I certainly like it.

>>14257682
Yeah, it would get clunky in combat wouldn't it? Any ideas how it would be conducted? I had an old idea using poker hands for Wild Guns (which got put by the wayside, mind you.) Essentially a fight would go by how many draws a character gets in his or her hand. She spends a point, gets a card. Also represents an action in a fight. When the character is ready to unleash her feet of fury and finish the enemy off, she reveals her hand. If she wins, the enemy is defeated, if defeated, the fight continues anew.

It was a wonky idea that might not work with this setting, but it may fire off some other ideas, who knows.

>>14257629

I'm glad you like it. A bunch of other people also expressed interest/enthusiasm, so I'd like to turn this into a system or even actual game.

I'm just new to the whole homebrew thing, so I'm accepting all the help I can get, everyone's welcome/appreciated.

---

So I think with the kick points system, that mostly nails down the core mechanic of the game? And we've already got character creation down. We can fine tune these things more when needed, but it's good to have them as workables to begin with.

All that really leaves to first draft is the setting, and fluff, I think. Although as with the other stuff we can do that when necessary.

What would other people think we should knock out of the way first?

>>14257725
Derp, meant Wild Cards. Geez.

>>14257725

Well there's always dice, but given the points system it seems out of place. Simple, but I'm sure we can come up with a better/more creative solution.

I like the way you mentioned it. It reminds me of Puzzle Pirates/multiplayer tetris. Like, the fighters go through each round, perhaps dealing out or taking normal attacks. Each round they make it through though, they get granted combat points or something. With these combat points, in certain number or combination they can unleash more deadly signature attacks, or have a better defense (for use against such attacks). The question is, do you let loose constant low-point attacks, or try and save up to blast off a monster attack? Balance is the key.

So I guess something similar to what you mentioned, but how can we make it more in-theme with the game? In that one you said cards or draws right? How can we make that shoe related?

>>14257811
>Well there's always dice, but given the points system it seems out of place. Simple, but I'm sure we can come up with a better/more creative solution.
Yeah, dice are good for a quick fix, but I agree. It likely needs to be diceless.

>I like the way you mentioned it. It reminds me of Puzzle Pirates/multiplayer tetris. Like, the fighters go through each round, perhaps dealing out or taking normal attacks. Each round they make it through though, they get granted combat points or something. With these combat points, in certain number or combination they can unleash more deadly signature attacks, or have a better defense (for use against such attacks). The question is, do you let loose constant low-point attacks, or try and save up to blast off a monster attack? Balance is the key.
That's the idea behind the cards. Let each little attack be a draw of a card, building up to what is hopefully a monster hand/attack to finish off with. Do you wanna keep drawing cards until you get a Royal Flush, or do you think your Three-of-a-Kind is enough to finish with before the enemy builds her hand.

>So I guess something similar to what you mentioned, but how can we make it more in-theme with the game? In that one you said cards or draws right? How can we make that shoe related?
Therein lies a bit of a problem. Thematically, it's hard to make a thematic mechanic dealing with martial-arts nigh of beating the shit out of the GM to really immerse yourself into it.

Though I'd be hard pressed not to watch THAT unfold.

>>14257866

Well I didn't have a problem with the cards, it was good because it was randomized. I think it should be something more shoe-related than cards, but I'm at a loss of what that could be.

It could just stick to points, like each turn you get one combat point, while actions are free. Special attacks cost points, as do certain other actions like special defense or switch fight style, etc... that though might require a bit of keeping track of (pen and paper use) from the DM and player. Like, "Ok, new round, everyone gets a point(s) (variable amount given, up to the DM)." Everyone adds that amount to their little combat 'bank' (something just like a piece of paper with a tally of their available points), then they go about continuing the combat.

It doesn't involve the handing out of things though, so I'm not sure if its preferable.

>>14257935
Well, use poker chips/coins/tokens/etc as the points instead of a piece of paper? Again, trying to de-clunkify the engine.

>>14257949

Sure that could work, we could just say "tokens" which could be represented by anything really. Whatever the DM and players have on hand, to keep track of things.

So the mechanic remains roughly the same, just the method is simplified. Would that work?

>>14258009
I think that would work nicely, yes.

>>14258015

Cool, so that gets down how combat is actually performed. For things like attacks, I guess players and DM would have associated with their character sheet, different abilities and such. Normally they'd require the points we mentioned earlier, but in combat they'd have like an actual cost.

So something like Super Jump or Power Kick that are special abilities in for the character and can just be done in-game, well in combat they cost somehting, say 1-2-any number of points. So based on their character, they have like a menu of things to choose. "Oh, power jump is 10 points, but power kick is 5. I'll do one, then save up for the other." or something like that.

I think that deals with special attacks? How about other actions, like simple attacks or blocks, dodges? I was thinking a character (depending on their agility or some skill) can perform a number of free actions which can be these simple feats. Like say three actions, and a chance for a combat point spend. So, two simple attacks, a block, and a special move. Or three simple attacks, and a special block.

Does that sound ok, or should we find a way to better work it?

>>14258081
That could work too. Maybe make those actions stat vs stat contests. This is where the shoes' specialties come in. Say you got a vintage pair of Air Jordans (REAL fucking rare, by the way). Perhaps a +3 to agility. Dodge a lot of shit that way in regular combat. For the special attacks/actions, the +3 adds to the initial stock of points for agility. In the example I started with, the character would start with 5+3 points to make 8 points at the beginning of a session.

>>14258174

Cool, I think that works well. I think then we can settle that as well? So we've mostly worked out combat, as well as actual game progression, all without using dice.

I'd say that's a huge step forward, no? What else can we hammer out?

>I'm really liking how we're keeping it simple, I want anyone to be able to run it anywhere, just with the rules and some friends, hell even rocks or candy wrappers could work as "tokens"

>>14258218
Yeah, I'm liking the beer-and-pretzels approach to this. I think fluff is the way to go from here now that we established a core mechanic. We can fine tune things to the feel of the setting once we get that out.

Which reminds me, working on a cover for the whole thing so far. Stay tuned!

>>14258237

Awesome, we can identify threads with it!

Yeah, so just the setting I guess, the fluff, and how it may affect characters. I figure though the character generation and other aspects are mostly settled, as you said we can more fine tune them once we get the general gist of the setting/theme down.

>>14258274
Okay, prototype cover shown here.

Before we entirely leave the crunch, what sort of stats did we agree on for the characters and their Kicks? Power and Speed seem to come to mind, although things such as Looks come to mind as well. Types of shoes may be boots for Power, athletic shoes for Speed, and dress shoes for Looks.

From the first thread, I also liked the ideas of Details (stickers, insoles, spikes) and Blemishes (smudges, gum, scuff marks) being the equivalent of temporary buffs and debuffs.

>>14258564
And off to bed with me. Sleep well folks!

>>14258564

That's fuckin' beautiful.

As for stats, I think we went over some in the previous thread. Basically you pick what sort of shoe you want to wear (Formal, Athletic, etc...) and that's your class.

From there you can go with brands for specialization, which would deal with speed or strength or style. All shoes can take skills in all areas, even the ones they aren't known for (formal shoes in power, athletic shoes in style) but they take penalties and/or have a harder time ranking up in those skills.

So yeah, the type of shoe and brand would mostly decide your main specialty, be it speed, power, or looks, but you can also build stats in the other specialties (although it will be more difficult) if you want to have broader specializations.

---

I think we knocked allot out with this thread, the idea's coming along nicely. I'm headed to sleep now, but I'll keep checking up on the thread tomorrow for any other ideas or suggestions for the game.

As for the next big leap in things to finalize for the game, I think we can make another thread, to work on the setting and fluff. I think a standardized time for the thread would be best, rather than just random times when it's convenient.

For now I'll say Thursday at around 4-5 pm est, so people interested have an idea when things will be going. It's not final, but likely sometime Thursday evening.

Anyway, peace out for now, great thread!

What about some guilds or orders an such that players can be part of, you know like the player was a dancer.

The Order of the Moon Walkers, now there's something.

>>14259539

There were some ideas in the previous threads, of having organizations and gangs and such. The benefit being support and training obviously, but also things like uniforms and colors, which would affect shoe capability.

I think we'll get more into that when we flesh out the various cities/locales. Because you can't necessarily have the same groups globally, so some would be city-specific.

Regarding combat, perhaps at the start of battle (if you're going by the points for actions thing) you get certain combat points that depend on the points currently on your shoes.

-Athletics translate to Physical Actions
-Dex translates to Acrobatics
-etc, you get the idea I think.

And maybe certain actions have point costs that can be reduced by the shoe class/brand.

-Climber shoes have reduced costs to wall running I guess.

Maybe some shoes are restricted from actions, like how you can't wall run with stilettos.

Just spouting ideas that might go well.

>>14261111

Yeah those all make sense.

I was thinking something along those lines, like athletic builds get two special combat actions, while power builds' special attacks are cheaper. Things like that.

>>14261147
So what's currently established/being worked on? It wouldn't hurt to know how far along you are.

>>14261269

I think, I mean nothing's certain yet, but I think we've got down;

- How character creation will work
- The core mechanic of gameplay and combat
- The setting and theme, various locales for different playstyles

What we need, I think;

- Details of character creation (a sheet for starters, as well as how creation can be broken down, brand names, shoe types and roles, etc...)
- Backstory and fluff for the setting (just a working "story" for the setting, how things came to be, as well as some details/specifics for each locale)
- A leveling, experience method, like how characters will build skill and stats overtime


So we're still in the early stages of development, but I think it's coming along nicely. If we have a few more threads like this one and hammer some good stuff out, then it shouldn't be long before we've got something working on our hands.

Keeping in mind that this is all amateur work, I've never done anything homebrew before, so most of everything having to do with the idea/setting is an amalgam of the effort of everyone who's willing to participate, contribute, or just give opinions or criticism.

Good morning folks.

>>14261111
For stats, starting players could start with five points to split among their stats. Outside of battle, they relate to point cost reductions for actions. Inside of battle, they give you extra points for those related things.

Power: Strength; physicality; resistance
Speed: Quickness; agility; balance
Looks: Persuasion; charisma; sociability

From there, the type of shoes determine a specialty/class/etc. Like you said, climbing shoes allow cost reduction to things such as Wall Run and perhaps a bonus to Power. Maybe give each type of shoe a special ability it reduces the cost of as well as bonus to one of the stats.

This should lead to four pools of points, at most. One for each stat, as well as one for the specialty of the shoes. Detailed enough to get a player involved, but not too much to get it clunky.

Working on a sheet now.

>>14261963
Also, a note about brands. Gotta keep the system fast and loose, so adding stats based on them wouldn't work too well. But perhaps make the brands into the factions. You know how the war between Adidas and Nike led many of their followers to an early death covered in the shoe prints of their rivals.

>>14261963

Yeah, lets keep it simple. That's why already for character creation I limited it roughly 3 classes of shoe; Formal, Athletic, and Utilitarian (is that the right word?).

Basically what shoes you have, is what you'll specialize in. As such you'll get a bonus to that area and be able to level up easier in it, plus in-game actions will cost less while in-combat actions will be cheaper or better. You can expand to other areas, like formal shoes expanding in power, but it will be more difficult, and you probably won't get the bonuses.

I think more than four stats, like Strength, Agility, etc... would be better, but not more than like 6. The S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system is easy to wrap your head around, maybe do something like that?

---

I'd like to say again, because I was reminded, I like the cover art you made. It reminds me of the covers GAF does.

>>14262023
Eh, I would have to disagree with you on that. Since the core mechanic is for players to keep track of points via physical tokens, having too many stacks of tokens can get a bit unwieldy and confusing, in my opinion.But I see that we can keep the idea of shoes giving bonuses to stats as well as making special abilities cost less.

>>14261979

Well the way I had Brands imagined, wasn't so much boost to stats, so much as specialty. Like, Shoe Type was class, Brand was race.

So, you go with say, Athletic shoes as your build. In that build, you then pick Nike. So your athletic shoes make you a speed/agility type character, and the Nike brand have you specializing in agility, specifically jumping or jump-related stunts/attacks.

Or say you go Formal shoes, so your shoes make you a Looks/Style type character, but having Prada high heels makes you a charm/charisma specialized character.

You're still under the bigger class of Looks, Agility, Power, but with the brand, in the class you specialize in something.

I suppose it would make sense to have boosts to stats based on brands, but that wasn't required I figured, and you were right that it might complicate things.

>>14262091
I see where you're going with this, and for a more detailed system, it would most certainly work. We seem to also have specializations down (read as "cost reductions of certain special actions") from the type of shoes worn. You have your specialization there. Maybe stay in the shoes for long enough and the bonuses will stick with your character, even when you change shoes.

>>14262065

Well I figured tokens would be the catch-all in terms of points. You wouldn't have different tokens to represent different actions points. Things just cost the standard points, and you spend them. It's not like "power points" or "charisma points" to complete an action, just a set amount of points, and if you happen to specialize in that area, it just costs less for you.

>>14262149
Oooh. I must have taken that wording differently. Carry on!

>>14262142

Well the main reason I want to have brands, and have them do something is because;

A) The approachability of it. Like anyone can be asked to play the game, and everyone knows at least some brand. So even the most unfamiliar person can be asked to pick a pair and they can be like "Uhh, Nike I guess." and then and there both the DM and player have something to work with, rather than delving into explaining the different shoes and brands and types and all that. The possibility exists for more informed players to delve into the differences in shoes and brands for a more specialized character, but our newbie player can right away pick this up, say his favorite shoe brand (or one that just comes to mind) and run with it with little further customization or shoe-working.

B) I like the notion of brands having a major effect in the setting, having a distinct impact in the fluff. Like seeing a person wearing a pair of Kicks and people are like "Wow, look at him. He's got a pair of Converse, don't want to mess with him." In this way I think it should have an effect simply so as to reflect that notion, the association with brands meaning something.

I see where you're coming from though, as we're trying to keep things simple. If there was a way to do this and make it simple as well, I'd like that.

There was an idea I had for making it work, although I have to get to class soon so I can't really detail it out. When I get back if the thread is still up, I'll try and explain the idea better. It's just something I had in mind though, so if it doesn't jive totally say so and I'll change it to work.

>>14262229
Okay, I see what you're talking about. Let's see where this goes with the other folks in the thread. Personally, that role has already been done by the shoes themselves, but I wanna see what others think about it.

>>14262149

You know you could do it like MTG, where a card costs mana to summon. Like, any 5 lands, and a specific land (Swamp, Plains, etc...)

So the DM has an action or task for the players to complete, say it takes 5 action points, and a charisma or strength requirement of 3. So a player can spend 5 action points for it to happen, but they have to be of the right level (charisma or strength 3) to perform it correctly. This allows for certain tasks to be completed by the right individuals (like having a charisma shoe wearer complete a charisma-based task, or an athletic shoe wearer complete an agility-based task, rather than the other way around).

And since in usual (unless specified by the DM) tasks allow for teammates to help contribute the cost, it should be viable with team mechanics. Like a task costs 10 points and 3 charisma. Well three players are 1 charisma in stat each, but have enough points. So the each contribute some points, and all work together to meet the charisma skill (3, with them working together to match it). Or the same task, but a charisma player with 5 charisma, lending their skill to help a lesser charisma players completion of said task.

Or something like that, just an idea.

>>14262297
Okay, I like that. Definitely puts the stats to work if we're gonna stick to a catch-all stock of points.

>>14262322

Cool.

Anyway I'll be back later after class to see how things are doing, and expand on that idea I had.

Allright, a VERY tentative character sheet here with what we seem to agree on.

Basic idea is this. Characters split up a number of points at chargen (probably 5) between the three stats. Any bonuses/penalties would make working totals for each stat, which then combine to give a character his/her first set of Action Points for a period of time (scene, session, entire story, depends on how much a dick the DM is).

As for the Kicks themselves, they have an ability which costs less than usual and a modifier that would go to a designated stat based on the Kicks. Of course, I say modifier because if you're wearing some tattered Kicks, you get penalties likely. Also, Kicks can get temporary details on them, such as stickers, special laces, smudges, dirt, etc which would also modify the stats.

I'm on the fence about Brands, since they seem very important in the potential fluff, but others want to integrate them into the stats and such as well. I'll have to think about it some more when I get back from running errands.

>>14262488

That's pretty cool, you guys look like you're coming along with things.

rolled 1 = 1

Feet of fire?

Spell name ftw

how are you going to determine classes? Are characters going to be built around a specific type of shoe (big bruiser who always wears Timberlands, dancers who only wear flashy shoes) or work off of a paradigm-shift style like in FF13- you can change your character as easily as you change your shoes?

if the latter, there should be rules for shoe-changing time (boots require longer to change, while slipons can be changed in a round)
No matter what, there needs to be rules for tying someones laces together.

also, how will leveling work? will the people wearing the shoes level up, or will the shoes they wear levle up the more they use them?
Like, just before the bossfight you take off your lvl 2 tap shoes for your lvl 5 wafflemakers.

>>14263344

Class is determined by shoe. If you wear boots, then you're going to be more apt, and geared towards fighting. Specifically power-based attacks. Athletic shoes, you'll be more geared towards speed and agility in game, fast in combat. And so on and so forth.

It's your shoes that determine your class/role, and yes, you can change your shoes.

Now keeping in mind that, in the setting, Kicks are exceedingly rare. Most people just wear government-issue shoes or simple non-descript ones. If you are somehow able to obtain another pair though, then yes, you can switch. We'll probably have a turn amount to switch pairs, depending on how you tied your laces or what kind of shoes they are. Something like, bulky shoes (boots) and well-laced take 3 turns or something, typical or loose laced take 2, and slip ons or velcro take a turn. Something like that, we'll finalize it when we get to actual character customization details.

Do you have any suggestions of how you think it should work?

>>14263389

I think that leveling should be reliant on the shoes themselves, being that the character creation is pretty much entirely about creating your pair.

In terms of leveling, for explanation I figure it'd be something like your aptitude with the pair, how well you know them and can use them. So you can level up with your pair, but if someone else takes them or wears them, they're only as competent as you were when you first put them on. Same goes with switching, like you have the shoes you wear the most, and your comfort level is 10 with them. Switching to a new or different pair though, you'll be at a lower level depending on how you've worn them.

That way, shoes are mostly keyed to a character, but can be switched or traded, etc...

A certain few shoes may break this mold, with the keyword Famous or something. Basically, a pair of shoes so well-known that virtually anyone can wear them and have access to their potential. Fred Astaire's tap shoes for example, anyone can put them on (assuming they fit), and even though they may not be familiar, the shoes are so powerful that anyone can wield them. Not as well as the actual owners (a famous person and their famous shoes together would be like a walking god), but still a force to be reckoned with. These types of shoes though would naturally be very hard to obtain and well-hidden or closely-guarded.


How does that sound, what do you think?

>>14263344
I'd like to think that the Kicks themselves can be changed. And there would definitely be a changing time (probably in number of turns). And since things such as laces can give bonuses, definitely increase the time if you're lacing up with the laces. ESPECIALLY if you're transferring the laces from one pair of Kicks to another. For example, I like the idea that >>14263980 put forth. Boots, Kicks with tight lacing, Kicks with otherwise complex fasteners take 3 turns. Normal lacing takes 2 turns, and slip ons and velcros take 1 turn.

>>14263985
And yes, leveling should be left to the Kicks themselves. However, make it possible for characters to take on some of the Kicks' characteristics if they wear them for long enough. Perhaps the points can be traded for a level in the Kicks being worn.

For every, say, 25 Action Points or so that a character gains, he/she can trade them in for a Kickback. After a number of Kickbacks (depending on the specific pair of Kicks), the character can have the pair's cost-reduced ability, and maybe with even more Kickbacks he/she can gain the pure stat bonus instead. But the character must choose one or the other if he/she plans to gain either one of those characteristics.

Kickbacks can also be used like Fate Points in other systems, allowing for an automatic success, despite the AP requirement for an action. However, you have to buy that Kickback all over again if you want to continue working toward gaining the ability/bonus.

Also, Famous shoes are definitely go! I love that idea!

>>14265328

I think it can go like; slip ons and velcros, one turn to take off or put on. Then you go onto shoes with laces (as a standard). Laces always take a turn to tie or undo (or transfer), and then the second turn to take off the shoe or put on. So two turns for shoes with laces. For boots and tighter shoes, 1 turn for the laces, 1 turn to loosen the shoe to be able to take it off or put it on (pulling the tongue out, broadening the ankles, etc...), and the customary 1 turn to actually put it on or take it off. There are of course other methods of fastening shoes, and different shoe types, but this can work as a standard I think.

---

As for everything else I agree with, and like the Kickback concept.

The only thing I would say is keeping leveling separate of characters themselves, simply as it might be a hassle to keep track of actual character stats. Simply because, the character creation and character sheets are about the shoes rather than the person. The person wearing the shoes is just like a backstory really. I think it's easier for stats and skills to be confined to shoes, rather than saying "Ok I take off my Kicks, but my character has a permanant strength bonus, so that adds to the new pair I put on."

If it's limited to just the shoes, then switching shoes would be as simple as switching character sheets (being that a sheet is about the shoe). The character remains the same, it's just a new build you're using.


That's my attempt at keeping it simple though, just a thought. I can see where the benefits of having stats follow characters would be, and would allow for barefoot characters among other thigns. I just figure it might be a tad difficult to have to keep track of two lots of stats; a characters and their shoes.

What do you think?

Also the thing I mentioned earlier, I think leveling should be deemed Comfort. Baisically, how comfortable a character is with their shoes.

The more used to wearing them they are, the more capable, the more apt they are to use them better. Better or new abilities, better stats, etc...

So if a character is really comfortable with their shoes (Comfort 10 or something) then they're pretty good to go. Switching to a new pair though, or someone elses, it'll take some getting used to and they won't be as comfortable as first.

Baisically to represent how you wear in your shoes overtime as you wear them.

>>14265573
Hmmm, the on-and-off mechanic is starting to become clunky here. Perhaps stick with a basic list of turn-amounts for different types of Kicks and work from there. Heck, even let players spend AP to negate the wait. Make that like a stunt as well.

>>14265612
Okay, I like that. Comfort. Also instead of tracking two sets of stats, like >>14265573 brought up, how about we combine the Kickback system with Comfort. Maybe a character can trade in a number of Kickbacks for a Comfort level. As always though, once you spend the Kickbacks, you have to earn them all over again. Start small and work their way up to maximum Comfort.

>Comfort 0 (beginning)
>Comfort 1 = 5 Kickbacks
>Comfort 2 = 7 Kickbacks
>Comfort 3 = 10 Kickbacks
>Comfort 4 = 15 Kickbacks
>Comfort 5 = 20 Kickbacks
>Comfort 6 = 25 Kickbacks
>Comfort 7 = 30 Kickbacks
>Comfort 8 = 35 Kickbacks
>Comfort 9 = 40 Kickbacks
>Comfort 10 (gains Famous tag) = 50 Kickbacks

>>14265694

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Keep using the points as a catch all. Switching probably would be inclined towards the speed stat, so maybe a bonus or someting like that.

Perhaps at a certain speed level, a special action that decreases the cost/time to switch. Like "Experienced Shoe Switcher" I mean a better name than that, but the same idea?

I dunno, something off the top of my head.

---

On the Kickback note;

Ok yeah, I can see that. So kickbacks are kind of like XP. You can spend them to do important or difficult things, or spend them to level up.

I think the only limitant is to have is that kickbacks are related to shoe, so that a character can't put on a new pair, and spend a bunch of kickbacks to instantly make them high comfort.

But then I think we already decided that things like that would be limited to shoe, so that settles that already. Perhaps another place on the character sheet to record how many kickbacks that set of shoes has or something. If we do kickbacks as tokens, then it has us resorting to different types of tokens again.


Also just as an aside, what about Comfort increasing every session or sessions, depending on the DM's decision. So that it can represent the passage of time, a character simply growing more accustomed to their shoes (still have the kickback spending of course)?

Just a consideration, we might want to simply stick with the Kickback spending.

>>14265824
Definitely stick with that. Maybe at a certain Comfort level (probably C5 or C6), the particular pair of Kicks takes no time to put on or off. The on-and-off wait/cost for the other pair of Kicks still applies though.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. A modular sort of XP, much like DH. And methinks Kickbacks should be limited to the Kicks being worn. Put on a new pair and you have to get used to them too, so you can't carry Kickbacks over between shoes. Also, Comfort levels can only be gain incrementally - can't bounce from C0 all the way to C10 in one go because you just happen to have stocked 50 Kickbacks wearing a pair of Kicks.

Or you can always allow a Comfort level to be added at the end of a set period of time. That could work as well.

>>14265911

So players that choose to or have to spend Kickbacks to get by, performing complex or risky actions frequently, can still level up as would other players.

Not as frequently as those who save up Kickbacks to do it, but so that those who frequently spend them don't stagnate at level 0.

Something like that? The amount of time it takes to naturally gain a comfort level would obviously be up to the DM.

>>14265984
I think that's a good compromise.

You must include mysterious art of exotic shoe-tying.

Think modifiers this neat spider-web lacing would provide!

>>14266091
or a fucking pentagram.

>>14266091

Yeah, we've already got plans to implement shoelace patterns. We're not sure what kind of mods they'll give, but it'll definitely be in.

>>14266114

Then you must've been to this page:
http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm

>>14266125

lol we're literally not going to stat every single possible lacing possibility.

We'll have to come up with an easy way to stat them. Probably some kind of association method.

>>14266091
>>14266102
>>14266125
Yeah, that would be a bit too much. I think we should just stick to certain laces having bonuses/penalties and so on.

>>14266551

I figure something like complexity.

The more complex the lacing, the better the bonus. However it is then harder to undo the lacing or redo them up.

So normal lacing, of normal shoelaces gives no bonus or penalty. Complex lacing gives something simple like +1 to something and -1 to taking off/undoing. Masterwork lacing like +2 and -2.

The actual bonuses granted we can finalize later, but I think something like 1 or two levels of complexity should manage for lacing. We might want to go out of our way to specially stat a small handful of unique lacing (Pentagram = magic resistance or something) but for th evast majority, they can be stated simply with complexity.

We can also use the complexity for things like stickers, so it could serve as a way of describing/statting shoe details in general.

>>14266604

I should add, I meant 1 to 2 levels of complexity, max, for all details. Shoelaces, stickers, etc... wouldn't go beyond 2 probably.

0 represents nothing or average, 1 represents some level of customization/complexity, 2 represents the maximum of high customization/complexity.

>>14266632
I think we can all agree on that. Let's move on to things such as health. How do we work that out? Let everyone start out at the same amount of health and work from there?

>>14268782

Except female characters start with less strength. About -4 or so.

Anyway, on a serious note for health I think that makes sense for everyone to be the same. After that it comes down to their shoes to give them defense. If the whole game is spent leveling your shoes up and it's the stats of the item the game focuses on, then it would seem kind of out of place for a characters health to grow.

Maybe in that sense we don't need health so much as say, something like a defense or resistance trait for the shoes, which if depleted counts as a K.O. or defeat or something? As with some of the other stuff so far, it just seems unnecessary to have a whole 'nother category when the same thing could be covered by one we have. Does that make sense?

Maybe characters have an immutable amount of health, something low, to carry them when their defense is depleted or they're not wearing shoes, but is that needed?

>>14269852
I think that works. Maybe consider damage in terms of failures of AP-based defense. Start each pair of Kicks with 3 health, plus a point for each Comfort level it has. Once those are gone, the character him/herself has 1 point of reserve health. Once that's gone, the character's more or less done for.

>>14269901

Well considering these are melee fights likely, I don't think losing a fight would mean death. But everything else checks out.

As for the AP thing, yeah I think that works out with the notion of conflicts being a two-way transfer. Taking damage is less action points you receive, so the more damage you have the harder it is for you to stay in the fight. In turn, dealing out damage has the same effect on the enemy, and it's harder for them to do attacks. In this way you can get on a roll of keep dealing damage, and unless the target (or you if you're the one being attacked) breaks the chain then they'd be in dire straights.

I guess basic attacks can do 1 damage unless modified, and special attacks will do more, sometimes with effects? The only way to heal, short of like some special shoe abilities, is to not take damage for a turn of combat (assuming you're sticking around). Do this by defending or avoiding attacks, and if you do so without incurring damage that turn then go up in "health" some amount, depending on your level or abilities or whatever.

It may be hard though if you try to go on the defense when the enemy has some points stored up, or are on a roll. So try to plan for when it would be good to defend, or maybe if you're close to K.O., attacking with doubled fury might be better. It's up to you to figure out what strategy will work for your character.


So yeah, action point gain affected by damage, when you take too much no more action points till you recover, or it's K.O. Would that work? Or does it need some tuning? How would you do it?

>>14270052
Hmmm, I like how you're tying the AP into health as well. Do too much in one go, and you'll be exhausted. Get attacked too much and you'll be exhausted. Of course, if you do enough cool stuff to impress the GM, like stunts and assists, you can get more AP to keep rolling.

Attacking and defending. Make it a sort of secret wager until a simultaneous reveal. Enemies' stocks of AP will be hidden by the DM, so they may or may not have more AP than the character. But does the character go all out in one strike, or be a little more conservative?

>>14270162
Heading to bed. But here's a WIP poster I had in mind. For some reason, I get an 80s sci-fi feel from the whole thing.

>>14270162

Yeah, that's sort of what I was aiming for, combat being a two-way street. You can dish it out, but in kind have to keep a look out for your own damage.

I think to have the AP loss, it could be done in two ways, either;

- Have damage at certain points affect AP gain, so at full health is full AP gain, half health is 3/4 AP gain, a fourth of health is half AP gain.
- Have AP gain directly tied to health, so like at full health you gain the full amount, and it goes down each point of damage you take, rather than damage milestones.

The only problem I would see with having AP tied directly to health like in the second option, is that I figured AP would be based on the characters speed. After all, higher speed means more action in rounds or something like that. But the more I think of it, it's probably better that AP is somehow or directly tied to Health, so that you don't get characters regardless of build trying to buff speed for more AP even if it doesn't suit them. That shouldn't have to be, so having AP tied to health, even though realistically doesn't make as much sense, would work better and balance things for all players.

Maybe tie AP to their primary stat (power, speed, looks)? I think that's the way you'd do it if you went with the first method of AP loss (given that a character's stats won't decrease in a fight, just their health).

>>14270324
Hmm, I was thinking that starting AP for a scene/session/game/etc was determined by the total of the characters' current stats + bonuses, not tied to any one stat.

Heading to bed, for real now!

>>14270313

That's awesome. We can't neglect though the 70's kung-fu action and themes as well though. I think in the end it'll end up being an amalgam of different themes and styles from all these eras.

>>14270324

So yeah, I guess what I was going for, is do we want to tie AP gain to health, or a character's primary stat?

Health I think would have AP directly tied, going down just as health does, while having it tied to Skill would go down by milestones when damage reaches those points.

>>14270352

Well I meant AP gain for in-combat, it would be different from out-of-combat. Given that, in combat you'll be gaining AP each turn, for the performance of attacks and stuff. Whereas out of combat, the way we said before, that you start a session with the amount appropriate to your character, and spend and gain it as you go along, rather than every turn gaining some.

Simply because, combat will be points spending in large amounts almost every turn, while out of combat you could go awhile without needing to perform a stunt or use a skill or something. If that makes sense?

Basically combat would allow AP gain as you would at the start of a session, but like every turn of combat to allow for a wealth of actions to occur. Naturally if the AP gain per turn is too high (the amount a character is to gain at the start of a session greatly outweighs the amount that would be necessary in a combat turn) then we can accommodate. Something like, each turn a character gains half (or some fraction) of the AP they would get at the start of a session, or simply they get AP from their unmodified skill or health or something.

Just that you gain some each turn really, is what I was aiming at. Not sure if it would work, but that's sort of what I had in mind, to make combat more action-friendly and encourage spending.

Anyway, good night!

You should make the skill called Style rather than Looks because from what I've read it will have to deal with charisma and other aspects not strictly related to appearance.

>>14272363
Allright, changed it to Style. Also changed Power to Strength to keep the design solid.

Also, archived the thread here: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/14254645/

Heading to work. See y'all later!

>>14273921

Cool, it'll be good if we can go and pull from this or review it if need be, like with the other archived thread.

I saw this start like, this weekend, and you've guys already got character sheets and half a game worked out.

Well done, I should say.

Ba-dump.

I wants me some shoe-playan gaems.

I think given that this thread has lasted as long as it has, it wouldn't make sense to make another in such short succession. So I'm going to say the next one will be Saturday then, same time as stipulated before.

>>14277188
That should give me time to work on some drawfaggotry for it. I'll be there!

>>14279405

Cool, Saturday it is then.

We can hammer out the fluff and backstory.