>>14982910
Weapons would have 4 primary stats (aside from weight, ammo capacity, size, etc.): accuracy, penetration, lethality, and damage. Accuracy would serve as a cap to the potential modifier you could apply to an attack roll, since a weapon is only as good as its wielder and a wielder is only as good as its weapon. Penetration represents the raw penetrative capabilities of the weapon. Lethality represents how nasty an injury the weapon leaves, be it through deformation, fragmentation, yawing, or just leaving a really wide cut. Finally, damage represents how much raw physical damage a weapon can do the superstructure of a creature or object. I'll explain what those last three do in the next paragraph.

When you attack a target, you'd compare the degree of success on the attack roll to basic table, to determine the maximum grade of injury possible. You'd then compare penetration minus any cover or armor modifiers to the target's size, with each interval of the target's size being another grade of injury higher (so a size six target compared to a 20 penetration weapon would potentially receive a Lethal injury, assuming you rolled a high enough attack). You'd add lethality to this value, which could potentially increase the grade of the injury past the maximum you rolled. Damage really wouldn't be worth bothering with unless you were trying to destroy an object for the most part and would just deplete structural health.

>>14982924
The primary goal of this system however, would be for the players to not have to worry about it all that often (since getting shot really, really sucks). To this end, some variety of fate/action point system would be included that would allow players to downgrade the particular injury or negate entirely. These would differ from most such systems in that they're plentiful and easily replenished.

My ultimate aim with this is to have a system where getting shot sucks almost as much as it does in real life, but being the big damn hero is still quite possible.

To explain attacking a bit more plainly:

1. Roll attack, compare with table to determine maximum injury possible.
2. Compare penetration to target's size, cap off at maximum injury.
3. Apply lethality to capped off penetration without being affected by cap.
4. Apply injury to target.

sounds good

how do you handle bursts, full-auto or aiming?

>>14983060
Semi-automatic fire, bursts, and full auto would all be handled as a single attack. The subsequent rounds would just have the weapon's recoil applied as an increasing penalty (so with a 3 round burst on a recoil 2 weapon, the second round would have a -2 penalty, and the third would have a -4) to determine their placement. Aiming would be used mostly to minimize penalties for things like range or the target being on the move.

>>14983098
but what about weapons with more than one firing mode?
and what about supressing fire?

your ideas sound like you want to make combat somewhat tactical
so manouvers like hitting many targets in one burst, shooting out ir into cover and special rules for shotguns or grenade launchers would be necessary

oh and what about different ammunition types?
wouldn't it make sense that damage is determined by ammo?

>>14983159
Those are all in mind, but right now I'm concerned about polishing up the damage system. The system hasn't really left the conceptual stage.

Multiple fire modes could easily be handled by allowing you to choose how many rounds you fire in a round.

Supressing fire could be handled by including some variety of fear mechanic.

>>14983172
Ammunition would have a set of base stats (accuracy, penetration, lethality, and damage as with weapons) and individual weapons would modify it from there. The default assumption would be lead core, copper jacket ammunition (at least with modern firearms), and specialty ammunition would alter those base stats (semi-jacket hollowpoint would for instance increase the weapon's lethalty and reduce its penetration, as is the standard method of handling HP rounds).

It's worth noting that while I intend this game largely for modern combat, that I plan to do it up as a semi-generic RPG. Not quite as varied as GURPS in its capabilities, but still capable of handling things such as fantasy or the supernatural. Just designed with the same basis of being injured really sucks in mind. My original goal for this was designing a zombie apocalypse system with zombies being an utter bitch to kill.

>>Fast replenishing pool of "fate" points
>>When they run out, you start taking massive, suckful injury

OP, I strongly recommend you check out Spycraft's damage system (HP and Vitality). It's very close to what you're looking for in raw terms, and might be easier to play with.

>>14983284
Taking massive, suckful injury when you run out suits me just fine. Complaining about it is like complaining that you die when you run out of hit points. The fate/whatever points are the standard character resource. Useful for keeping them alive, aiding their attacks, skills, etc.

maybe add some kind of bars for:
pain/exhaustion and bleeding/trauma

they're parallel
one starts from the right the other from the left
if they meet somewhere in the middle you fall unconscious

>>14982910

Whenever I wanna run something modern, or modern esque, I use dark heresy with all the weapons replaced by real world firearms. Damage is based on the cartridge you use, rather then the gun, which determines range, rof and the like.

Its way more lethal then dh though, a single shot of anything bigger then 5.56 has a good chance of killing a pc in one hit.

>>14983350
I use AFMBE.

>>14983348
I was thinking pain and bleeding would both follow similar tracks to the injury levels. Pain levels would determine the degree of penalty suffered, or if you can even remain an actual threat in combat. Bleeding levels would simply determine how long it takes for you to wind up at the next level and eventually unconsciousness/death.

do you have some kind of wound monitor in mind?

how do those different injuries types work out?

>>14983348
Physical trauma would be represented by your character's structural health. As you take damage to your structural health, injuries can potentially increase in severity. So, for example, if you were kicking some poor sap to death, in most cases, you wouldn't do worse than a superficial injury, but as broken bones and pulped muscle added up, the injury would increase in severity and internal bleeding would begin to set in. This is an instance where structural health would be important for PCs, though with most forms of combat, it wouldn't be all that important.

>>14983394
Not so certain on that one. I haven't given too much thought on the actual mechanics behind it. I'm still at the conceptual stage. I mostly just wanted to see /tg/'s opinion of the concept itself.

>>14983416
I like your ideas so far BUT
it could get very complicated

I think combat mechanics should be fast
combat can take forever if the system is too complex

>>14983456
Well, the other reason I started this idea was because I wanted to see a "realistic" system that's still fairly quick to play. So assuming I don't go full retard, I'll be doing my best to keep it somewhat simple while still allowing semi-realistic combat. When it comes down to crunch time, I'll probably be back on /tg/ to do playtests and get advice for areas of mechanics I don't know too much about (I'm pretty certain I could model a decent gun fight, but I don't know squat about swordfights, for instance).

>>14983477
there is one important element in melee combat that many rpgs don't or just partly feature

blocking/parade

if both opponents are equally skilled the rate of hits getting blocked should be fairly high

dodging should also be possible, but in actual combat it is fairly rare (instead in martial arts/hand-to-hand)

maybe they could be linked to your fate points

an actual hit should be equally fatal as a gunshot

blunt weapons crush bones and blades cut off entire limbs
at a medieval exhibition I've seen a very old curator hit a hung up pig in half with a longsword in one blow

>>14983589
I was considering using the opponent's agility (or whatever comparable stat I include) as a penalty to the attacker's roll. In melee combat, I'd imagine that applying their skill with their particular weapon (plus any modifiers for the weapon) could cover their skill at blocking/parrying.

As to melee weapons, I was thinking they'd have fairly low penetration and high lethality (bladed weapons anyway) and do enough structural damage for it to be significant. The injuries tend not to affect the vitals as readily (as a gunshot anyway), but do tend to do a lot of damage to a person's superstructure.

>>14983642
I'd actually use the opponents weapon skill

das schwarze auge let's you decide if you want to pay more attention on attack or parade or keep them balanced

if you skill swords to 4 you can distribute 4 points on attack and parade

>>14983394
Lyotard uses the term ‘the predialectic paradigm of discourse’ to denote the bridge between culture and society. It could be said that the subject is contextualised into a subcultural discourse that includes narrativity as a whole.

In V, Pynchon reiterates realism; in Mason & Dixon he deconstructs subcultural discourse. However, the subject is interpolated into a capitalist appropriation that includes sexuality as a totality.

>>14983589
The characteristic theme of the works of Pynchon is the role of the poet as observer. But an abundance of discourses concerning semiotic subcapitalist theory may be discovered.

Realism suggests that consciousness is fundamentally impossible, given that the premise of capitalist appropriation is invalid. In a sense, Reicher[1] states that we have to choose between realism and postdialectic conceptualist theory.

>>14983366
“Sexual identity is unattainable,” says Foucault. Many theories concerning the common ground between truth and class exist. However, Baudrillard uses the term ‘realism’ to denote the economy of cultural language.

“Society is intrinsically meaningless,” says Lyotard; however, according to Geoffrey[2] , it is not so much society that is intrinsically meaningless, but rather the economy, and some would say the paradigm, of society. The predeconstructive paradigm of reality holds that discourse is created by the collective unconscious. Thus, the meaninglessness of capitalist appropriation intrinsic to Pynchon’s Vineland emerges again in V.

If one examines the predeconstructive paradigm of reality, one is faced with a choice: either reject realism or conclude that consciousness is used to disempower the underprivileged, but only if truth is interchangeable with art; otherwise, Bataille’s model of capitalist appropriation is one of “structural nihilism”, and hence part of the rubicon of sexuality. The primary theme of Hubbard’s[3] model of cultural socialism is the role of the reader as observer. In a sense, Bataille uses the term ‘the predeconstructive paradigm of reality’ to denote a mythopoetical whole.

>>14982956
The characteristic theme of the works of Pynchon is the difference between sexual identity and culture. But if realism holds, we have to choose between predialectic cultural theory and submodernist nihilism.

The premise of capitalist appropriation suggests that context is a product of the masses. It could be said that in Vineland, Pynchon analyses the predeconstructive paradigm of reality; in V, however, he denies realism.

The subject is contextualised into a capitalist appropriation that includes narrativity as a paradox. In a sense, the primary theme of Cameron’s[4] analysis of realism is the role of the writer as participant.

Lacan suggests the use of capitalist appropriation to analyse sexual identity. Therefore, the example of realism depicted in Pynchon’s The Crying of Lot 49 is also evident in Gravity’s Rainbow, although in a more self-sufficient sense.

>>14983723
That's what I meant. I should have wrote that out a bit more clearly, since my wording was chosen rather poorly.

>>14983750
>>14983765
>>14983774
lol wat

>>14983723
Also, interesting idea. Perhaps just using the opponent's agility as a penalty and then allowing the opponent to decide how much of their weapon skill they want to apply as a penalty to the opponent's attack roll (at the cost of their own) could work.

>>14983826
>to the attacker's attack roll

Bleh

By the way, does anyone have a suggestion for a name?

>>14983874
it might be a bit early for that since it's still just a bunch of ideas

I archived your thread btw

>>14983899
Ah you're probably right.

>>14983933
Oh thank you, I'm kind of flattered.

some suggestions before I go to bed

if you make a list of weapons and accessoires/upgrades you could include some kind of category for availability according to periods

for example today a laser pointer is common and small
back in the 80s they were very rare, big and too power hungry to be used without a huge external battery pack

>>14984021
but that doesn't mean your list has to be a weapons alamanc

keep it abstract
like deviding it into fantasy, modern, cyberpunk, sci-fi and so on

maybe you won't even need to make a huge list with hundreds of firearms (except you want to)

templates for kinds of weapons would be perfectly sufficient

Might be sueful for helping brainstorm Op, the damage system I used in my Stalker game was based on a 'HP pool' shots that did <= 1/4 of health - just a scratch
<=1/2 of health - minor wound
<= 3/4 of health - serious wound
<= health - potentially fatal wound
> health - rare, usually a killshot or something similar

each 'level' of wounding gave you CON + 1dX seconds/minutes/days until you died of the wound, without treatment. lower the wound on the chart, the more survivable it was. fatal wounds would usually kill you in under a few minutes.

>>14984021
>>14984068
I was thinking of going with the fairly standard "light pistol, medium pistol, heavy pistol, intermediate carbine, intermediate rifle, full power carbine, full power rifle" sort of set up and just having individual weapons as fluff/modifications to cost, availability, and ammunition capacity, and potentially reliability. Certain weapon features would receive some statistical adjustments (single action vs. double action, polygonal rifling, etc.), but they would just get separate entries and explanations of what they do rather than weapons with those features being statted up individually.

If I were to expand on the system and include specific settings, I might go into a greater level of detail, such as statting up the m4 and the AK series individually, but for most games it wouldn't be massively significant.