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  • File : 1306675681.jpg-(432 KB, 1500x2016, 05-al-battlescene.jpg)
    432 KB Legend of Zelda RPG Thread #7 Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)09:28 No.15091730  
    last thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15069694/
    the wiki: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_RPG

    the copy/pasta breakdown:
    >The super-condensed crash course; see the wiki for details
    3 Virtues: Power, Wisdom, Courage
    3 Attributes: Physical, Mental, Spiritual
    Some skills, mostly item-based in keeping with Zelda themes.
    A number of techniques/abilities, which are purchased a-la-carte with XP. Most of them will be tied to a specific skill, requiring a certain number of ranks in that skill to learn.

    The system uses a d6 roll & keep system, using linear comparison for opposed checks. This means that you roll X six-sided dice (with X = your ranks in the relevant Attribute + your ranks in the relevant skill) and only use the Y highest rolls (with Y = your ranks in the relevant Virtue). Linear comparison means that in the case of a contested roll (such as in combat) you compare your highest roll to your opponent's highest, your second highest to their second highest, and so forth. If one party in the contest has more kept dice than the opponent, the extra dice are treated as unopposed, with a success threshold of 4.

    Unopposed rolls are compared to a fixed success threshold, with a certain number of successes required to accomplish the intended task. For example, pushing a heavy block might require 2 successes, with success defined as a die showing 4 or greater; in this case, you'd roll Physical and keep Power.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)09:29 No.15091736
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    Character advancement is free-form, with XP investment improving skills and attributes. Virtues are extremely difficult to improve, and shouldn't change much over the course of a typical game. There are a number of special techniques available to choose from, each classified under a relevant skill. Higher skill ranks are prerequisites for more advanced techniques.

    Core races consist of Deku Scrub, Gerudo, Goron, Hylian, Kokiri, and Zora, with more under discussion. Each race gets a couple nifty abilities (eg, Gorons can roll into a ball and roll around, Zora can breathe underwater, and so forth), except for Hylians, who instead get a +1 to the Virtue of their choice (though this can't be applied to put any Virtue over the usual starting limit of 4). No other races get any bonuses to Virtues. Each race also has a Mass score, which affects movement speed, getting knocked/pushed around, use of the hookshot/clawshot, and so forth.

    Damage is measured in hearts, and can be dealt in fractions of up to 1/4 heart. Your character has hearts equal to 1 + Courage + Physical, making the minimum number of hearts 3. Hearts can be increased by increasing your Physical or Courage values, or by obtaining Pieces of Heart and Heart Containers, which will be distributed as rewards for beating bosses and tough puzzles and the like.
    >> Character Creation Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)09:42 No.15091827
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    Ergh. Starting hearts are 2+Physical, not 1+Courage+Physical.

    Current issues:
    >Magic: How many magic points does a character get? How do we track duration?
    >Dice Pools: Anon posted this link a while back: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjlBKq_uScFFdFJhV0JibWEtS3FIbnBYc2Q2bm5vMlE&
    >What does this mean for our current method of dice pool growth? r=skill+Attribute, k=Virtue)
    >> Current Skill List Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)09:48 No.15091851
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    Combat & Defense Skills)
    [Shield] (Physical {Possibly Courage})
    [Dodging/Acrobatics] (Physical Wisdom{for defense/Courage for acrobatic feats?)
    [Melee] (Physical Power/Wisdom/Courage)
    [Heavy] (Physical Power)
    [Ranged] (Physical Power/Wisdom/Courage)

    Item Skills
    [Alchemy] (Mental Wisdom)
    [Tool] (Physical Power/Wisdom/courage)
    [Magic] (Mental Power/Wisdom/Courage)
    [Music] (Spiritual Power{?}/Wisdom/Courage)

    Non-Item skills
    [Stealth] (Physical Wisdom)
    [Lore] (Mental Wisdom)
    [Social] (Spiritual Power/Wisdom/Courage)
    >> Weapon & armor dump Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)09:51 No.15091875
    Melee Weapons (Physical):
    -Power: Axes, Maces, Gauntlets, Picks
    -Courage: Broad Swords, Scimitar, Claws, Unarmed
    -Wisdom: Spears, Daggers, Rapier, Deku Staff

    Heavy (Physical):
    -Power: Ball and Chain, Hammer, Great Sword/Axe

    Ranged (Mental):
    -Power: Bombs, Bombchu, Cannon
    -Courage: Boomerang, Slingshot, Hookshot
    -Wisdom: Bows, Seed Shooter, Needles

    Magic (Mental):
    -Power: Din's Fire, Fire Rod, Creation and Destruction Magic
    -Courage: Farore's Wind, Wind Rod, Travel and Enchantment Magic
    -Wisdom: Nayru's Love, Ice Rod, Healing and Protection Magic

    Light Armor (Physical)
    -Woven Cloth (0 heart, wind resist)
    -Tanned Leather (0 heart, electric resist)
    -Padded Leather (1/4 heart, electric resist)
    -Deku Vestment (1/4 heart, fire weak, water/ice resist)
    -Deku Shield (1/4 heart, 1 extra dice, fire weak, water/ice resist)
    -Armos Shield (1/4 heart, 1 extra dice, fire resist)

    Medium Armor (Physical, +1 Mass, -1 Acrobatics)
    -Coiled Chain Armor (1/4 heart, results from stored ball and chain, penalties stack)
    -Darknut Half Plate (1/4 heart, can be converted)
    -Chain Mail (1/2 heart)
    -Iron Chest Plate (1/2 heart)
    -Stalfos Regalia (1/2 heart)
    -Iron Shield (1/4 heart, 1 extra dice)
    -Gauntlet (1/4 heart, occupies shield slot)

    Heavy Armor (Physical, +2 Mass, -2 Acrobatics)
    -Goron Steel Raiment (1/2 heart, allows rolling)
    -Darknut Full Plate (3/4 heart, can be converted)
    -Gerudo Black Armor (3/4 heart)
    -Iron Knuckle Full Suit (1 heart, additional +1 mass)
    -Great Shield (1/2 heart, 2 extra dice)
    -Biggoron Shield (1 heart, 3 extra dice, two actions to use)
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)09:54 No.15091893
    >Magic: How many magic points does a character get?

    We may just want to flesh out the melee and ranged combat before we even start to answer this.

    Once we figure out what we want in combat we can figure out what kinds of magic pools non-casters/caster will need.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)10:04 No.15091956
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    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)10:12 No.15092003

    Dumping WIP weapon lists from the previous thread
    Starting stats: (Name---Damage---Special)
    Hero's Sword----.5
    Razor Sword----.5
    Armos Sword----.5
    Hand Axe----.5
    Kokiri Dagger----.25----Extra Roll Die
    Magic Sword----.75----Magic Consuming
    Biggoron Sword----1----No Shield Slot
    Deku Staff----.5----No Shield Slot, Flammable
    Mining Pick----.5
    Clawed Glove----.5
    Fist----.25----Extra Keep Die

    Lance----1.25----Heavy, Charging
    Great Sword----1.5----Heavy
    Great Axe----1.5----Heavy
    Ball and Chain----1----Heavy, Reach, Sweep

    Hero's Bow----.5----Range 15
    Slingshot----.25----Range 10
    Seed Shooter----.25----Range 10
    Boomerang----.25----Range 5, Returning, Stun
    Cannon----1----Range 20, Heavy
    Hookshot----.25----Range 5, Pull Lower Mass
    Longshot----.25----Range 10, Pull Lower Mass

    Needle----.25----Thrown 5
    Deku Nut----0----Thrown 5, Stun
    Bomb----.75----Thrown 5, Exploding
    Bombchu----.75----Thrown 5, Exploding
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)10:17 No.15092031
    #ZeldaRPG on irc.thisisnotatrueending.com for simple chatting about the project and such, kinda dead at the moment, but I'm in there.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)11:01 No.15092303
    Do we think we need a higher damage value for Power based weapons?
    >> Race and Defense Guy 05/29/11(Sun)11:03 No.15092328
    I'd join but I can't seem to get my X-Chat to connect to it. Any thoughts?
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)11:07 No.15092369

    Thought One: Use a real IRC. (Just kidding, bro)
    Thought Two: I might have the address wrong.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)11:37 No.15092616
    Most likely, particularly for |heavy| category ones since they need an action to recover.

    Thinking about ranged weapons, do we want to treat range as an absolute cap, or do we want to use a range increment system like in D&D? And at any rate, the numbers posted above definitely need work; seems pretty obvious to me that they're just placeholders.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)12:33 No.15093011
    Ranged weapons should probably just have a maximum range, which could be lowered and extended by things like fog and the Hawkeye mask.

    We need to figure out the average amount of damage an attack will do. As it stands, the damage for each weapon is the minimum amount it does.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)13:19 No.15093420
    Working on Skill techniques right now. This is what we've cooked up in the irc for shield techniques.

    shield Attack - single action - You throw your shield forward striking your enemy, knocking him back and forcing him to lower his shield.

    Shield Bash - single action - You throw your shield forward aiming for your opponents head, if he has his guard up he is knocked back forced to lower his shield, otherwise he loses one action on his next turn.

    Shield Slam - Double action - From a standing position you put all of your wieight behind your shield forcing it to slam into the enemy knocking him down and back.(distance?)(damage?)

    Charge - Double action - Running with your shield in straight path at full speed you knock everybody in your path down and away until you have finished moving or you fail to push one aside. (distance?)(damage?) Moving in a line, you perform this attack against everybody in your path until you've moved your maximum distance or have failed to push something aside.

    Shield throw - Single action - You throw your shield. (damage+)

    Guard and attack - Free action - You may raise your shield any time you could make another action.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)13:21 No.15093441

    >Charge - Double action - Running with your shield in straight path at full speed you knock everybody in your path down and away until you have finished moving or you fail to push one aside. (distance?)(damage?)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)14:12 No.15093743
    These look good, shield bash and shield attack seem redundant

    Perhaps they could be combined as

    >Shield Bash: Make a shield attack against an enemy. If you hit (which could mean that you get at least one success) the target cannot Defend on his next turn.

    Also, I like the idea of Double Actions: But can we use them along with Techniques that use more than one Single Action? Such as heavy weapons taking another action to ready after attacking.
    >> Race and Defense Guy 05/29/11(Sun)14:18 No.15093801
    I thought we already were having Heavy-types require one action to use and one action to recover. It was in the past two threads I thought.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)14:23 No.15093856

    I know, I was just wondering if it made more sense to turn it into a Double Action instead. I think the two methods could coexist (I suggested a Jump Attack that caused you to jump forward as one action and attack as the second action, and a 4-action Great Spin), but that might get too complicated if we do things that way..
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)15:13 No.15094321
    Too many and too complicated is a no go. Also taking several rounds to get any payoff isn't really attractive.
    I'm against just turning |heavy| into double actions, though. With one action to attack and one to recover, you have much more possibilities in what you do.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)15:20 No.15094391
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    Also, while playing the first Zelda I noticed how important facing was to fighting certain enemies like Darknuts, as well as defending yourself. Then I realized sort of thing was always present in Zelda.

    Players can face in 1 of 8 directions.
    When they Defend, they are considered to be Defending against any attack that passes through one of the 5 spaces they are facing.
    During their turn, they can change the direction they are facing as a free action.
    At the end of their turn, they determine what direction they will be facing.

    If this is implemented, it would make fights against armored enemies like Armos, Dodongos and Darknuts much less abstract and more in the spirit of the games. What are your concerns?
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)15:21 No.15094407
    Forced reliance on grid, and keeping track.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)15:21 No.15094410
    Forgot to add the part that says I'm suggesting this feature, not that it automatically should be implemented.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)15:34 No.15094540
    >Forced reliance on grid
    That is an issue, especially if people don't want to/ can't have access to a grid. I guess it would be possible to include rules on facing and movement in a seperate section, but at the same time it's hard to imagine a Zelda game without some kind of map.

    >keeping track
    A sticker, adot made with a marker, or printed/digital tokens with some mark on one side could work.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)15:55 No.15094698
    So... should we go with 60 MP just to get that part out of the way? We could always change it later.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)17:29 No.15095231
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)18:07 No.15095363
    I think bombs should be a double action to use. Sure, you can fight with them, and they deal amazing damage. BUT you have to pull one out, light it, and then throw it. There could be special bomb types that don't require a light ("contact bombs" or Bombchu) but for the most part, they are a slow weapon. A bomb expert could take an ability/technique to make this faster, as well, which would be another way to make them more valuable to the party.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)18:07 No.15095364
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    Bumping with drawfaggotry
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)18:28 No.15095443
    I think there should be several ways you can use bombs

    1: You throw the bomb at an Enemy and if you hit him it explodes
    2. You light the Bomb and then set it on a field next to you and after a certain time (1round?) it explodes and if you cant get away you get some damage yourself
    3. You set the Bomb on a field next to you and if someone shoots a fire arrow at it or a burning bat lands on it it explodes
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:00 No.15095662
    Your third statement made me realize something.
    You don't HAVE to light a bomb in this.
    You can just leave them there and shoot a Fire Arrow/Fire Magic/chase a Fire Slug at/into it.
    Can make for more options in puzzles.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:01 No.15095683
    Forgot to add something.
    You can shoot an Ice Arrow or counter with a Water Bomb to douse a bomb. Makes sense, and it could be instrumental in defeating a boss...
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:09 No.15095772
    Primed bombs that don't hit an enemy could detonate after one round (at the beginning of the next turn of the person who primed it.)
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:10 No.15095784
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    May as well throw my stuff back on here too.
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:11 No.15095791
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    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:11 No.15095797
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    >the essibeta
    Weird name for a ship captcha, but I suppose it would work...
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:12 No.15095808
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    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:13 No.15095813
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    And that's all the stuff I did thus far. Wonder where that character sheet ran off to?
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:27 No.15095932
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    This one?
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:29 No.15095953
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    Yes. I also remember a cleaned-up version of it in the works. But nice charsheet regardless.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:30 No.15095964
    This system intrigues me /tg/.

    I think I may have to full-color pdf the bitch when it's finished.

    captcha: "You're ofterate"

    Fuck you captcha, you're ofterate.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:33 No.15095987
    >15095964 again

    A good collection of maps would rock to go along with this. I know most people would want to use the z64 maps, but I'm partial to lttp and link's awakening.

    Once the basics of the system are finished, do you think a bestiary is in the works?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)19:34 No.15095998
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    It's here, no real progress since I've been working on weapons:

    Starting stats: (Name---Damage---Special)

    [Melee] Courage:
    Sword (Hero's Sword, Scimatar, Rapier, etc)----1/2
    Magic Sword (Master Sword)----1----Magic Consuming
    Mining Pick----1/2
    Brawl----1/4----Extra Keep Die

    [Melee] Wisdom:
    Improvised (Canes & Tomes, Deku sticks)----1/4
    Dagger----1/4----Extra Roll Die
    Longspear----1/2----Two-Handed, Reach

    [Melee] Power
    Halberd----3/4----Two-Handed, Reach

    * * *
    [Heavy] Power
    Lance----1+1/2----Heavy, Charging
    Great Sword (Biggoron's Sword)----1+1/2----Heavy
    Great Axe----2----Heavy, Two Handed
    Great Mace (Megaton Hammer)---1+1/2----Heavy
    Ball and Chain----1+1/2----Heavy, Two-Handed Reach

    * * *
    [Ranged] Courage
    Slingshot----1/4----Range 10
    Boomerang----1/4----Range 10, Returning, Stun
    Hookshot (clawshot)----1/4----Range 10, Pull
    Longshot----1/4----Range 20, Pull

    [Ranged] Wisdom
    Bow----1/2----Range 20
    Crossbow---1/2----Range 20
    Seed Shooter----1/4----Range 10
    Needle----1/4----Thrown 5
    Deku Nut----0----Thrown 5, Area 1, Stun

    Either [Ranged] Power or [Bombs] Power/(Mental?)
    Bomb----2----Thrown 5, Explosive, Area 1
    Bombchu----2----Thrown 5, Explosive, Area 1
    Cannon----3----Range 20, Explosive, Area 1, Immobile
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)19:37 No.15096023
    Ergh, Ignore the pick in [Melee] Courage. If anywhere it might belong in Power or Wisdom.

    I took Gauntlets out because they might work better as a shield equivalent, or at least able to use the Sheild Bash technique.

    Bombs still confuse me.
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 05/29/11(Sun)19:37 No.15096024
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    Thanks. Didn't get around to saving it last time. Too busy between my job and working on a workable rule set for Wild Cards.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)19:41 No.15096057
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    Absolutely, I want to get through all the other stuff just so I can work on that.
    >> Cz 05/29/11(Sun)19:44 No.15096085

    Once magic is resolved I'd love to get my hands on some Technique making along side drawing characters n whatnot. Like more special and racial techs.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)19:52 No.15096175
    I still think bombs should be Courage.
    I was the one who told the story about the guy who dropped a live grenade because he freaked out during boot camp in my stepdad's unit.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)20:13 No.15096370
    We should figure out how players will upgrade magic, if it will be done like Health through quests, or through XP expenditures/ upgrading Mental and Magic.

    Someone in an earlier thread posted this:
    >My opinion on the "blocks" of magic, is that there should be a max of 10 blocks, containing 6 each. Din's Fire and Farore's Wind both take 6 (1 block), Naryu's Love takes 12 points (2 blocks), Fire Arrows and Ice Arrows both take 2 points each (three per block)

    It seems to make a bit of sense. Standard attack spells (maybe with damage of 1/2 or 3/4) cost 2mp, big showstopper spells cost 6. Duration spells could be 1-2 mp per round.

    It's easier to go with that than to try and estimate the number of attacks a spellcaster will need to make until they can restore their MP, and then basing the amount of MP off of that knowledge.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)20:31 No.15096557
    I can't say I'm really sold on lance being a |heavy| weapon. All the other heavy weapons are things that take a big swing to use, but lances are more of a brace-and-charge deal. And given the association with knighthood, Courage seems like a better fit for it than Power.

    Make it require being mounted (because let's be honest, if you're not charging with a mount, a lance is basically just a heavy, unwieldy spear) and you can still let it do lots of damage as a Courage-based |melee| weapon without stepping on |heavy|'s toes.

    This could work. 15 blocks of 4 could also work well, since that way everything ends up in halves or quarters of blocks, much like health works in halves or quarters of hearts.
    And at any rate, with mp capping at 60 we can use the costs straight from the games (or with simple conversions, as was done last thread with LttP stuff), which seem to be reasonably balanced, particularly given that you'd have to cut back in other useful areas to excel in magic (unlike Link who can just pick up any old item or spell and wield it like a pro).
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)20:58 No.15096796
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    Here's all 3 options for a 60 point magic meter. I think basing them off of 6-point blocks would work best, but that would make calculating starting magic hard.
    >> Library Lass 05/29/11(Sun)21:04 No.15096856
    That isn't indicative of bombs requiring courage, it's indicative of the guy in your dad's unit being a pathetic sack of shit.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)21:16 No.15096965
    after trying to make a Character i realised that im not sure wich Virtue/Attribute belongs to which skill so is this right?

    Physical Power = Armour, Shield, and Heavy
    Mental Power = Magic
    Physical Courage = Brawl, Melee, Stave, and Acrobatics
    Mental Courage = Tool
    Spiritual Courage = Instrument and Sway
    Physical Wisdom = Ranged, Stealth
    Mental Wisdom = Alchemy and Craft
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)21:22 No.15097027
    see >>15091851
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)21:28 No.15097090
    so... i can choose wich virtue i use for most skills?
    i don't really think i like that
    >> Sir Scribe 05/29/11(Sun)21:33 No.15097130
    More like different applications of skills require different virtues. Beating someone's face in with a mace requires more Power than backstabbing them with a dagger, but both use the |Melee| skill.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)21:36 No.15097159
    Can I dual-wield boomerangs in this? This is v. important
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)21:41 No.15097202
    oh ok i got that confused because of the fields on the character sheets thanks
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)22:06 No.15097491
    Courage is the standard you should be held to for Bombs because, if you're calm and collected while holding a deadly explosive, you can throw it with much more accuracy than if you're worried that the fuse is too short or if it's unstable or oh god what if I slip and it falls out of my hands ohgodgetridofitgetitawayfrommegaaaaaaaah

    Doesn't matter how powerful you are, you're gonna miss your target, at best, and at worst, drop it on yourself, like that guy did.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)22:13 No.15097573
    I can understand your sentiment, but how does this relate to the Zelda universe?

    Things would be problematic if players had to roll to see if they had a breakdown every time they lit a fuse.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)22:24 No.15097706
    >Things would be problematic if players had to roll to see if they had a breakdown every time they lit a fuse.

    Problematic, yes. Could be pretty hilarious, though.

    But yeah, not for this game. Power makes sense for bombs.
    Except bombchu, I guess; that one can probably be Wisdom. Maybe even Mental, since it's more a matter of programming it/figuring out where it will go once released, rather than any sort of real "aiming" per se.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/29/11(Sun)22:48 No.15097980
    I think that aiming, rigging, programming, and those other things should be mental, while only the actual THROWING of the bomb should be physical.

    Guiding a Bombchu, or rigging a bomb to a pillar to blast it, or determining the length of the fuse, would all be mental, but using a bomb as a thrown weapon would be a Power/Physical ranged weapon check, maybe Courage/physical
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/29/11(Sun)22:54 No.15098043
    So maybe [Alchemy] (Mental Wisdom) to construct a bomb, [Ranged] (Physical Power) to chuck or deal damage for the explosion?
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)23:01 No.15098123
    Sounds about right to me.
    >> Cz 05/29/11(Sun)23:22 No.15098361

    No objectives to adding what Virtues and Attributes the skills need on the wiki?
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)23:39 No.15098551
    Feel free, it needs updating.
    >> Anonymous 05/29/11(Sun)23:40 No.15098563

    Possibly a bit too late to comment but I just got out of work. Guy who wrote the shield techniques here, btw.

    Just keep in mind different techniques have different xp costs so when I wrote the techniques up I wanted to offer some shield utility that players could nab early on.

    Besides, they aren't as redundant as you would initially think at first glance. Specifically, if the target doesn't have his shield up, you smack him in the head, dealing dmg, and causing him to lose an action on his next turn. You aren't dropping his guard and knocking him back like you do a shielded target. I may need to rewrite some of them to be more explicit.
    >> Cz 05/29/11(Sun)23:58 No.15098717

    Done and done, however we're missing |Armor|, |Stave|, |Brawl|, and |Craft|
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)00:04 No.15098766
    So hey... Whats the ETA on this? When can we expect a playable version?
    >> Cz 05/30/11(Mon)00:06 No.15098782

    Think these work?

    [Armor] (Physical Power/Courage(?))
    [Stave] (Physical Power/Wisdom/Courage)
    [Brawl] (Psysical Power/Wisdom/Courage)
    [Craft] (Mental Power(?)/Wisdom)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)00:24 No.15098955
    I thought we were getting rid of these skills, which is why they weren't in the list above.

    Armor has nothing to roll for.
    Brawl and Staves are a part of Melee now.
    Craft was considered innapropriate, the stuff it was good for should fall to NPC's.
    >> Cz 05/30/11(Mon)00:26 No.15098979

    Ah my bad. Noted and wiki edited.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)00:27 No.15098985
         File1306729641.png-(30 KB, 960x720, almost there.png)
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    Oh, and here's a character sheet.

    Magic needs finalizing, but right now it's using the 6MP-per-block method.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)00:30 No.15099009
    Crap, just noticed the Virtue names were off center. I'll realign them whenever we finally decide on a Magic Meter.

    >probject perfons
    Those are... almost words.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)00:33 No.15099037
    For the longest time I thought that the idea of /tg/ getting shit done was just baseless bragging
    But when I look at this RPG you've designed I can totally see it
    /tg/ is totally getting shit done

    God damn I love you /tg/
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)00:38 No.15099082
    Seconded. I always knew you guys were capable of great stuff, but this has exceeded all my previous expectations.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)01:20 No.15099441
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    Last post of the night.
    >> Cz 05/30/11(Mon)01:29 No.15099520
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    Testing out the character sheet with the information that works so far.

    Anything I missing though? (Aside from equipment and armor)
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)01:42 No.15099631
    What? No. They roll to see where it lands. If we have any thrown weapons, we'll need rules for where it lands if it fails to hit the target. And there's always the chance that it'll land close to you. That could be fluffed as anything from butterfingers to freaking out.
    Power doesn't make sense to me, because the only person who couldn't lift a bomb was Child Link, and he was... what? Ten, eleven? I could barely lift 40 pounds off the ground at that age, let alone over my head. Plus, They're light enough to fit in a sack you carry with you, even if you ignore stretchy-pants inventories.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)02:48 No.15100175
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    Looking pretty spiffy there, T.C.N.

    I was a little disappointed that there weren't any icons for the attributes like there were on the original version that's up on the wiki, so I took the liberty of making some myself. If you guys like it, I could post the individual png files for use in the finished product.

    They actually were pretty easy to make -- Zeldawiki has some pretty good png images for the Master Sword, Ocarina of Time, and Book of Mudora, so I just took those, converted them to grayscale, and scaled them down.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)03:03 No.15100306
    The use of Power isn't strictly a matter of how hard you can chuck the bomb (though that definitely is part of it); each of the Virtues has a certain metaphysical kind of connotation, and even though "Power" in the literal sense may not be particularly important in throwing a bomb, neither is "Courage" or "Wisdom". In reality, you need a mix of all three -- the strength to hurl the bomb where you need it to go, an understanding of timing and aim, and the confidence to not screw up because of nerves.

    But bombs, in the nature of what they do and how they're used, definitely fit the ethos of Power better than either of the other two virtues. Bombs are violent and dramatic -- no subtlety, just force. That's what the virtue of Power is all about.

    Now, given this, why should bombchus be Wisdom-based? After all, they're also explosives, which is a Power thing, right? The reason here is that bombchus require careful planning to use effectively -- a decidedly Wisdom-oriented feature. Here, the use of the item clearly depends primarily on a specific virtue, so we can use that even though the end result speaks toward a different virtue.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)08:46 No.15102394
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    How do you guys feel about adding a class of mechanics that cause players to lose actions? image related.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)09:19 No.15102499
    To the guy that wanted a bestiary, here comes the one that's in progress:

    Using shorthand H=heart, XkY is x dice keep highest Y, A is attack, D is defense, Ma is mass, Mv is move, Arm is armor if applicable.
    ===Core monsters===
    -Armos (4H 12Ma 3Mv, A 3k3 for .5H, D 5k3, Special: Explode for 2H in 2meters)
    -Beamos (1H 20Ma 0Mv, A 5k2 for .75H, D 6k2, Arm 2, Special: Attacks all targets in a line, bomb+arrow vulnerable)
    -Bokoblin (3H 6Ma 6Mv, A 3k1 for .25H, D 3k1)
    -ChuChu (4H 4Ma 4Mv, A 3k2 for .25H, D 3k1, Special: Electrified)
    -Deku Baba (1H 2Ma 0Mv, A 2k1 for .25, D 1k1)
    -Dodongo (5H 10Ma 2Mv, A 4k3 for .5, D 3k2, Arm 1, Special: Fire Breath at 1meter range)
    -Floor Master (4H 5Ma 5Mv, A 5k3 for .5, D 6k2, Special: Split)
    -Keese (1H 1Ma 6Mv, A 1k1 for .25, D 3k1, Special: Flying)
    -Octoroc (3H 4Ma 4Mv, A 6k2 for .5, D 4k2, Arm .5, Special: Ranged Attack, Submerge)
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)09:19 No.15102501
    Yeah, actually in the discussion of the shield techniques, stunning popped up.

    Redeads... Opposed Physical Power as only available action until you win?
    >> Tagman 05/30/11(Mon)09:19 No.15102504

    Well I added a "Curse" tag to cover Bubbles, but it could cover ReDead moans and such as well.
    Then again, it currently works off damage...

    Since the Dungeon Design section is going to grow significantly, I'm going to split off the GM Section of the wiki to a new page to reduce clutter.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)09:20 No.15102509
    It's definately coming. Not sure exactly how to model it (paralization lasts until beginning of your next turn, maybe?)
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)09:23 No.15102523
    Leever (1H 3Ma 6Mv, A 2k2 for .5, D 4k2, Special: Burrow)
    Like-Like (4H 10Ma 4Mv, A 5k2 for .75, D 4k2, Arm 1, Special: Engulf on Hit)
    Lizalfos (4H 6Ma 8Mv, A 4k3 for .5, D 6k3, Arm .5, Special: Jump)
    Peahat (2H 2Ma 5Mv, A 3k2 for .25, D 4k2, Special: Flying)
    Skulltula (4H 5Ma 5Mv, A 5k3 for .5, D 4k3, Arm .25, Special: Climb, Web)
    Stalfos (6H 6Ma 6Mv, A 6k2 for 1, D 6k3, Arm 1, Special: Rise Again)
    Poe (3H 1Ma 5Mv, A 4k2 for .5, D 2k2, Special: Phase Out)
    Tectite (2H 4Ma 6Mv, A 3k1 for .5, D 3k2, Special: Jump, Water Walk)
    Wizrobe (5H 5Ma 3Mv, A 5k4 for .75, D 3k2, Special: Teleport, Ranged Fire Attack)
    Moblin (5H 10Ma 4Mv, A 5k4 for .5, D 5k2, Arm .25, Special: Reach, Charge)
    Bubble (2H 3Ma 5Mv, A 3k2 for .25, D 4k1, Special: Flying, Fire)
    Wolfos: (4H 6Ma 6Mv, A 5k3 for .5, D 4k3, Special: Flanking)
    Redead (5H 6Ma 2Mv, A 4k3 for .5, D 2k2, Special: Grapple, Frightful Presence)
    Gibdos (6H 7Ma 2Mv, A 5k3 for .5, D 4k2, Arm .25, Special: Grapple, Frightful Presence)
    Mini-Moldorm (3H 5Ma 5Mv, A 4k2 for .75, D 4k2, Special: Bump)
    Gohma Spawn (2H 4Ma 5Mv, A 3k1 for .5, D 2k1, Special: Climb)
    Darknut Guardian (6H 12Ma 4Mv, A 5k2 for 1, D 4k3, Arm 1.25, Special: If armor removed halve mass and armor and double movement)
    Darknut Champion (8H 12Ma 4Mv, A 7k3 for 1, D 5k3, Arm 1.5, Special: If armor removed halve mass and armor and double movement, if weapon dropped switch to unarmed [A 7k3 for .25])
    Iron Knuckle (7H 14Ma 3Mv, A 6k3 for 1, D 5k4, Arm 2,Special: Increase Movement by 1 for every 2 hearts lost)
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)09:52 No.15102571
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    bump with full color version of character sheet I started out of boredom
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)11:35 No.15102610
    I'd say paralysis could have varying durations depending on the source, but always in 1-round intervals.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)12:53 No.15102855
    Sounds good. In the same vein, how should we handle things like grabbing? Possibly opposed Physical Power/Physical Wisdom or rolls, prevents defending, turning or movement.

    The things that need working on the most for these are Health values (most are a little too low/too high) and attack/defense rolls.

    It might be good to assume that a character's average damage roll is going to be 1/2-1 heart of damage, if they miss one or two successes against an enemy with equal defense dice.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)13:56 No.15103323

    I think what we ended up deciding on was that stuns would be alright as long as they didn't cause players to lose an entire turn. Redeads are maybe an exception to that?

    Losing a round of actions isn't too huge a penalty anyway and it fits into the flavor of zelda imo. It likes if you got knocked down, you have stand back up. If you get knocked away, you have to run back into your enemy. If you get knocked down and away, well, that may be a bugger for some play styles;

    So, how do you guys feel about this technique to remedy that?
    Roll - |Acrobatics|- Single action - This person is acrobatic enough to move and stand up as a single action.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)14:32 No.15103654
         File1306780354.png-(2.43 MB, 4096x4096, light_world-1[1].png)
    2.43 MB
    World Map for Interest
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)15:24 No.15104135
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    It would be a much smoother system if we used the Link's Awakening/Oracla Games maps. They've already got a rough grid set up, which could simplify movement.
    Pic related.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)17:12 No.15105289
    ok, 3rd time I've tried to say this; 4chan kept eating my posts.
    >Iron Knuckle (7H 14Ma 3Mv, A 6k3 for 1, D 5k4, Arm 2,Special: Increase Movement by 1 for every 2 hearts lost)
    Part of me thinks that Iron Knuckle's damage increment should be bumped up to 2 hearts, but another part of me knows that that would mean that an Iron Knuckle would absolutely RAPE anyone who couldnt shield or dodge out of the way

    But maybe that's how it should be; Iron Knuckles arent to be taken lightly at ALL.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)18:20 No.15105921
    Yeah, I mean Iron Knuckles are definitely a higher-tier enemy. Giving them a 1.5- or 2-heart increment might make them strong, but that fits.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)18:24 No.15105975
    Before I read through all of this.
    Is the system based on anything (D&D, Gurps) or something you magnificent bastards came up with all by yourself?
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)18:31 No.15106034
    Why, the last of those, my good sir! This is not simply re-appropriating some other RPG and filling it with Zelda fluff; this is the creation of a Zelda RPG of it's own!
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)18:37 No.15106107
    Then let me tell you that I love all of you .
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)18:45 No.15106181
    This is fucking brilliant. It would be awesome if someone could put together a .pdf of the rules (a la Player's Handbook) when they're finished.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)18:51 No.15106243
    That would be the plan. Granted, it'll probably take awhile yet before we get to that point, but we are making steady progress.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)18:56 No.15106285
    hm, idea I just thought of. Since currently, a "Defend" action with the Shield and Acrobatic skills are functionally identical, the following differences be applied:

    A Defense Action with the Acrobatic Skill requires a PC to move 1 "square" (or however we're doing movement), either to the side, or back, or whatever.

    Additionally, the "Staggering" keyword, which would apply to some weapons and large enemies, which would cause a Shield user who makes a defend action against it to have only the defend action, and no other actions that turn. So you can either defend against the fuckhuge axe of wrecking-your-shit, or you can use 2 actions to make 2 attacks. Or whatever else.

    This makes it so that an acrobatic character actually moves around while nimbly dodging blows, and a shield-bearing tank can't take on an Iron Knuckle or Gohma 1 on 1. I say this because I feel that such enemies should be fought as a team. Additionally, on the flip-side of the shield/staggering coin, a heavy-weapon user (who can only attack once-per-turn) can lock-down shield-using enemies.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)19:06 No.15106415
    The "Staggering" keyword could also knock a creature that didn't use a shield to defend a square or two back on at least X (preferably 1) successes.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)19:09 No.15106456
    Not accounting for Mass, which obviously has the job of resisting knockback. I'll wait for some input from y'all before I manage to fill the whole thread making addendums to my own suggestions.

    >umfolsor exists
    Captcha, are you foretelling of some outer-god or mythic being?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)20:46 No.15107431
    Can you illustrate a round-by-round account of how Staggering might work? I like the idea of breaking up constant defending, but I can't quite see how it works in my mind.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)20:52 No.15107481
    I was actually thinking about this earlier today and i thought.

    Why not have bonuses/drawbacks for focusing on one virtue over another? For instance, say you have 2x as many ranks in the power virtue as you do in courage.

    Your raw strength allows you to deal more damage in combat, improving all your hits by one damage step. However, your lack of follow through leaves you open, and all damage against you is improved by one step.

    Power greater than wisdom? Your magic pool is halved but your spells all affect an area, due to your lack of ability to control it, making all your spells (Burst) type.

    Good idea, bad idea? It kinda fitsw in with the fluff. Pursuing one virtue in lieu of the other two could lead to dangerous/awesome consequences.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)21:01 No.15107569
    Well, you get 2 actions per turn, right? And any self-respecting Shield-user would do 1 attack, one defense action (whereas an acrobatic swordsman would do 1 attack one dodge, or 2 attacks, while a heavy weapon user is stuck doing 1 attack, then 1 action to recover from the attack)

    Staggering would mean that if you have a shield, and at least 1 of your actions is to defend, then the weight of the attack stuns you momentarily, meaning you ONLY get the defense action. The breakdown I imagine would go something like "Player announces his turn's 2 actions. One is a shield defense. GM dictates enemy's 2 actions. One is a staggering attack. This cancels whatever non-defend action the Player had chosen."

    If the Player did NOT defend with a shield, then "Player announces 2 actions. GM dictates enemy's actions. One of enemy's actions is a staggering attack. IF staggering attack connects, after the turn resolves Player is knocked away from enemy (X - Mass) Squares."

    This breakdown works on the assumption that turns are simultaneous. Though, I had previously suggested a Turn-based system, which would look like "Player takes 2 actions. Actions resolve. Enemy takes 2 actions. One is a Staggering Attack. A) Player used an action on his turn to Shield Defend. Defense works as normal, but Player loses 1 action on his next turn. B) Player did not Shield Defend. If the Staggering Attack deals damage, Player is knocked away from Enemy (X - Mass) squares."
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)21:02 No.15107578
    Might be fun as optional rules but simplicity should probably be more important.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)21:05 No.15107614

    Probably a product of playing rpg's that require a massive amount of paperwork over the years, but i think it would give flexibility to the players. Say they want to play a power mad hylian swordsman, and focus all of their virtue advances in power?

    They do improved damage, but are easier to hurt/ get damaged more/ are harder to heal. Something like that. If they are willing to accept the drawbacks then they can also take care of the bonuses.

    Conversely, it would help to make characters harder to optimize, and discourage minmaxing by making the players develop their characters as all around critters rather than just " I WANNA BE A MAGIC MACHINE."

    etc. etc.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)21:20 No.15107746
    Resolving actions as they are made is much easier on the GM and players than dictating all actions simultaneously.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)21:23 No.15107775
    Yeah, that's why I figured we'd make the game turn-based.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)21:31 No.15107846
    The Staggering mechanic sounds interesting, but the sort of turn structure you posted there doesn't seem to make much sense. If I'm not mistaken, it would require everyone to come up with their actions for the turn secretly, then compare at the same time and see how the turn actually plays out. It would be a mess. This would make a bit more sense:

    >Player's turn: Player uses shield defense (among other things)
    >Enemy's turn: Enemy uses Staggering attack
    >Player is stunned (loses one action on next turn), whether the attack hit or "missed" (was blocked by shield)

    >Player's turn: Player uses passive/acrobatic/otherwise non-shield defense
    >Enemy's turn: Enemy misses with Staggering attack
    >No effect on player (since the attack straight-up missed)

    >Player's turn: Player uses passive/acrobatic/otherwise non-shield defense
    >Enemy's turn: Enemy hits with Staggering attack
    >Player is knocked back & down

    This would be easier to work with than having everyone prepare their turn all at once, then compare and see how it actually plays out, and is a closer fit to how "staggering" type attacks work in the video games. When you block a heavy blow with your shield, you reel a little bit, but take no damage, and when you take that same attack full force you get sent flying.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/30/11(Mon)21:36 No.15107894
    You basically just greentexted the entire second turn breakdown I had posted, which I had already said made more sense than the first, simultaneous breakdown.
    >> Anonymous 05/30/11(Mon)21:39 No.15107928
    Ah, so I did. Somehow I guess I missed the whole last paragraph of your post...

    At any rate, definitely go with the turn-based system. Much simpler to work with.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)22:53 No.15108805
    Let's save Staggering for later once we figure out the kinks in the combat system. Not that I don't think it's a good idea.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/30/11(Mon)23:56 No.15109491
    Redid some low level monsters for playtesting

    Life:1/4 Mass:1 Move:1, Fly 8
    Atk: 2k1, 1/4H (bite)
    Def: 3k2

    Life:1 Mass:4 Move:6, Swim 6
    Atk: 3k3, 1/4H range 10 (rock spit)
    Def: 3k2

    Life:2 Mass:4 Move:4,
    Atk: 3k2, 1/4H (slam)
    Def: 3k1, Active 4k3(puddle)

    Electric ChuChu (Buzz Blob)
    Life:2 Mass:4 Move:4,
    Atk: 4k3, 1/4H (slam)
    Def: 3k2, Active 4k3 (puddle)
    Special: Electrified- Attackers who hit take 1/2H electric damage

    Life:2-1/2 Mass:5 Move:7
    Atk: 3k2, 1/2H
    Def 3k2
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)00:18 No.15109730
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    Attempted a fight with an octorok. From what I can see, creatures may need lower active defense.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/31/11(Tue)00:31 No.15109863
    Or, judging by that first defense roll, the Octorok burned a Fate point. Try a few more trials with different creatures, though, and thanks for pseudo-playtesting.

    Also I went ahead and archived this thread. May be a bit early, but we can just update it later.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/31/11(Tue)00:34 No.15109904
    Or at least I TRIED to archive it, but the archive's freaking out on me. Oh well.

    We may need to edit Electrified later, since it only affected metal weapons IIRC. part of the fight with Onox hinged on using the non-metal Staff of Seasons to bat away his electrified crystal shield.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)00:54 No.15110103
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    Another go.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/31/11(Tue)01:57 No.15110617
    Hold on, hadnt we decided that ties go to the defender? And I thought unopposed dice were auto-success?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)02:15 No.15110738
    I think unopposed dice should have a standard target number of 4
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)02:18 No.15110767
    You're right, the last one is messed up. But the wiki said that unopposed dice only counted on a 4 or better.

    Part of me thinks that comparing successes between combatants would be easier than comparing the highest dice in a specific order to each other.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)02:20 No.15110792
    it does seem like it would simpler just to count up successes and compare
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)02:21 No.15110794

    Whoops, by successes between combatants, I mean rolls of 4 or higher that cancel each other out.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)02:25 No.15110832
    so in this example >>15110103, on the first turn the hero's kept dice were 5, 4, 3 (two successes) and the octorok's kept dice were 5 and 3 (one successes). the octorok's one success cancels out one of the hero's successes, leaving him with a total of one success
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)04:53 No.15111869

    Just giving this a bump but also asking, some of these weapons do equal damage (the swords and mining pick for instance). Should there be anything to differentiate them other than name? Techniques that require a certain weapon, or maybe more special abilities?
    Also, not sure if I'm misunderstanding this, but the way combat is currently set up can you only ever do one attack per round? If so, maybe there should be techniques that let you do combos or something along those lines?
    >> Sir Scribe 05/31/11(Tue)07:27 No.15112523
    Weapons have different Keywords and different key virtues; That sword would be wielded with Courage and have the Metal and Slicing Keywords, while that mining pick would be wielded with, say, Power and have the Metal and Piercing Keywords.
    >> Sir Scribe 05/31/11(Tue)07:35 No.15112554
    Derp, hit submit before I was finished typing. Yeah, there are techniques that require specific weapons, and no, you can attack with both your actions if you wish (unless you have a Heavy weapon)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)09:44 No.15112957
    Not to mention techniques that are specific to certain weapons/keywords.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)10:05 No.15113039
    The one concern I'd have with simply counting up successes is that it would lead to very drawn-out fights between combatants with large pools. Looking at the statistics in the spreadsheet >>15091827 here, you'll be getting successes a hefty majority of the time with your first two dice in a 5d6 pool, and a 50/50 chance of success on the third one as well. If we were just comparing successes, then 80% of the time a pair of combatants going at each other with 5k3 pools would go just as slowly as a pair of 1k1 combatants.

    With linear comparison, it becomes a lot more dynamic, because then it actually matters if your die shows a 4, 5, or 6 -- and there's a pretty big difference in probability between those three outcomes. Plus there's still a chance (however slight) that rolls lower than 4 could still be a success.
    It might make things a little more complicated, but it makes contested rolls more interesting, and I don't think the complexity is anything people can't handle. Risk uses the same linear comparison method, and even people who don't normally play games with dice-based conflict resolution have no trouble grasping that rule.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)11:58 No.15113849
    True, but we also have the 4=success rule for unopposed checks, like pushing a block or hitting a switch with a bow in combat. It seems to me that counting successes wouldn't make too much of a difference if we replaced the current comparison system we have for combat, and it'd be consistient with the system for unopposed rolls.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)13:07 No.15114410
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    Hinox bump
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)14:42 No.15115175
    Consistency is good, but I wouldn't be so quick to write off the differences as negligible until we've done extensive playtesting to observe how the two methods differ with various dice pool sizes. Even just looking at the two tests shown earlier in the thread, switching to a success-count method would result in a slightly different outcome, in both cases reducing the pace of combat (albeit by a small margin).

    1st fight:
    >Hero's attack: 2 successes vs 2 successes -- no damage
    >Octorok's attack: 1 success vs 2 successes -- no damage
    >Hero's attack: 2 successes vs 1 success - 1/2 heart
    >Octorok still alive

    2nd fight:
    >Hero's attack: 2 successes vs 1 success - 1/2 heart
    >Octorok's attack: 2 successes vs 2 successes - no damage
    >Hero's attack: 3 successes vs 1 success - 1 heart
    >Octorok dies, but by smaller margin than it would have by linear comparison

    If my interpretation of the statistics in the spreadsheet is correct, the differences between success-count and linear comparison will only become more pronounced as dice pools get bigger. Matchups between similarly-sized dice pools will go much slower, with a lot more ties -- even with a rolled pool of 5, you have over a 95% chance of at least one kept die being a success, so two combatants rolling 5kX or higher will almost always cancel out on the first die. And additionally, it will make it a lot harder for less-skilled combatants to win by a lucky roll, since a 6 is no better than a 4 in a success-count system. Those with bigger dice pools will have a much more significant advantage if we drop linear comparison.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)14:45 No.15115202
    Ah, and to clarify: the greentext parts are always attacker's successes vs defender's successes. So the first line is hero's vs octorok's, then it's octorok's vs hero's, then hero's vs octorok's again.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)17:48 No.15116781
    Will pots, rocks and grass holding hearts/magic jars/rupees will be a part of the game?
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)17:53 No.15116816
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    Hey yall just dumpin some drawfaggotry from a request I believe a thread ago.

    >A Zora with a cutlass in cloth garb, A Goron cannoneer with an eyepatch in leathers, and an Armored Gerudo wind mage.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)18:02 No.15116907
    I shouldn't have made Cannon an immobile weapon.

    Excellent drawfaggotry, good sir.
    >> Tagman 05/31/11(Tue)18:58 No.15117494

    Wow, didn't expect a good lead-in to this idea:

    Recovery Hearts aren't literally hearts, but little items that make you think "Think is a land worth freeing from evil.". Stuff like children's drawings, love letters, etc.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)19:03 No.15117541

    If the Dm is cool with Minish being in their game, and they dont just put stuff in the vases grass and ect. JUST or the one hero of Hyrule.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)19:15 No.15117663
    Those things could provide hearts, but I think finding a little floating heart is fine too.

    Working on spells, have two from Zelda 2:

    Shield (Wisdom)
    Cost: 2 MP per round
    Range: 0 or 5
    Effect: The target recieves damage reduction of 1/2 heart until caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power. The damage reduction does not stack with armor.

    Reflect (Wisdom)
    Cost: 2 MP per round
    Range: 0 or 5
    Requirement: The target must be holding a shield.
    Effect: The target's shield gains the Reflective property until the caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)19:43 No.15117893
    Just a question: are the races' traits concrete yet, or can I offer some suggestions? Seems to me like they could be a bit more balanced.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)19:48 No.15117944

    Nah nothings really complete, whats on yer mind bro?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)19:52 No.15117982
    Well, the Kokiri seem really underpowered, unless I'm thoroughly confused about the abilities of their Fairy Guide. And I think a bonus to an Attribute would befit each of the races - I like the idea that Virtues are fairly static, but giving races Attribute bonuses would help distinguish them better.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)19:56 No.15118007

    Yeah skills and techs are still a work in progress, we barely touched on them so there is alot left open and confusing. I always thought that the Fairy Companion would be purely Kokiri based Techs. However thats not a bad idea to work with some harder more confusing races to add if people want too, anyone else feeling good bout that idea?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)20:00 No.15118037
    I can dig it. Compare to monstrous races in D&D. You can play moblins and stalfos 'n' shit. For now let's work out the kinks in our current PC races. Who else thinks Gorons should get a natural ground pound attack in their curled form, since it doesn't consume magic?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)20:03 No.15118055

    A grid map for a world map is a bad idea because it writes the GM into a corner. It restricts the GM's ability to paint the world however large or small he needs it to be and I can't see anything good happening from the players having precise measurements of the entire world, especially if it isn't completely to scale. Take the Link's Awakening Map, the buildings are a lot larger on the inside, than they are on the outside. I may not know how they would do it, but having every building be a hypercube is something I know my players would somehow use to break the world. World Maps should be guides, not definite things.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)20:03 No.15118058

    I actually like that better then them having the magic spikes attacks, their not the kind of race to really use Magic so that does make alittle more sense for them. I move that we swap out the spikes for ground pound.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)20:17 No.15118161
    Well, everyone needs a magic--fueled attack. Zoras have their barrier, Dekus have their bubble, Gorons have those damnable spikes. Although the ground pound is a nice answer to the Zoras' arm fins. Which, as a matter of fact, should have Ranged X and returning, right?
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)20:37 No.15118341

    Yeah, os then should we push for everyone to have a physical and magical racial benefit? (Besides from Hylian for obvious reasons)
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)20:48 No.15118414
    I'd certainly like the idea. Kind of a sub-weapon and a super-weapon, respectively.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)20:51 No.15118443
    Might go something like this:
    Deku: Regular Deku Nut spit and Bubble Spit(which might have some kind of stun effect)
    Goron: Ground pound and spikes
    Zora: Fins and barrier
    That's all I've got. Anyone have any suggestions for the Gerudo?
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)21:04 No.15118533

    Uh Maybe something to do with sands? Like a magic abilitiy to blind or summon sandstorm gust.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)21:05 No.15118544
    Oh, and about the Zoras' fins. I think you should be able to use one in the shield slot, and to counteract how well armed Zoras would be, add a weakness to Fire as per the canon. It would balance out.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)21:07 No.15118565
    I like the sandstorm thing. Instead of a physical power, maybe they get a bonus with scimitars and polearms. Unarmed? Nah, unarmed is the Goron's thing.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)21:14 No.15118614
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    Duel Wield Scimitars?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)21:17 No.15118644
    Yes. It would go hand in hand with their ability to treat weapons as shields, if we decide to keep that. Or maybe integrate it into the dual-wielding somehow?
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)21:22 No.15118671

    I'd much rather the duel wielding, because almost everyone in the Zelda Universe can pull crazy parries off like it was no problem.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)21:24 No.15118692
    This is true. We'll leave it up to techies how best to write up the whole dual-wielding bit, unless you feel up to the task.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)21:40 No.15118838
    So, critique what I've got so far(mass and movement are as stated on the wiki):

    Deku Racial Ability: Projectile Mouth
    - As stated on the wiki, except once during a certain increment of time the Deku can produce its own nut to use as a projectile.
    Goron Racial Ability: Goron Curl
    - As stated on the wiki plus the ability to ground pound from the curled state dealing damage to everything in the immediate vicinity
    Zora Racial Ability: Versatile Fins
    - As the wiki but added ranged (undetermined) and the ability to use one in the shield slot. Also added a weakness to fire to balance out from the rapetastic fins.
    All names are tentative, of course. I'm not that creative.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)21:44 No.15118878

    Here we go-

    Duel Wield
    Requirements: Melee Rank 4 / Gerudo
    XP Cost: ?
    With knowledge of the ways of battle, you know how hectic fights can be. Maybe it's time to get alittle ambidextrous with your weapons of choice. If the user is holding two [Melee] weapons on hand, the user can attack using the two weapons in one turn.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)21:51 No.15118920
    Diggin' it. Diggin' it a lot.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)22:06 No.15119014
    Question: are baseline humans a playable race alongside gerudo and hylians. Ordon was a mixed village after all.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)22:07 No.15119021
    The idea here is though that the magic-based techniques have to be learned, while the martial techniques are inherited. In the case of the Gorons and Zoras, it's because of their physiological advantages that they are inherently familiar with. Maybe Gerudo are just raised being exceptionally familiar with certain types of weapons, a la the Dwarven Urgroshes and Waraxes in 3.5?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)22:07 No.15119024
    Hylians essentially serve as the "human" race.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)22:16 No.15119088
    I'm brainstorming some skills right now wanna take a looksee at this one?

    Darunia's Might
    Requirements: Heavy Rank 6
    XP Cost: ?
    You got what it takes to be as strong as any Goron. Kid, I like you. Lets be sworn brothers! Swinging a [Heavy] item in combat no longer requires using your second turn to recoil the swing.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)22:25 No.15119177
    I like it. That should be a very high end technique, though.

    How about this for Kokiri?

    Fairy Stealth
    Requirements: Stealth Rank 3, Kokiri
    XP Cost: ?
    No one has seen a Kokiri unless they want to be seen. If you do not move or attack on your turn, you become invisible to all enemies within 10 spaces of you until you move or attack.

    I feel like there should be one for Hylians that gives them some kind of bonus to religion-related activity. Possibly Lore or a Spiritual skill.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)22:28 No.15119191
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    Oh hey guys I just thought about something.

    >Pic Related

    You know you want em.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)22:39 No.15119290
    Solid, but I think it shouldn't work (or at least have a failure chance) for enemies that are immediately adjacent to the Kokiri.
    And just a simple prayer to add another roll or keep for the next check sounds good for Hylians. The higher level the character, the more prayers they can use in a specific time frame.
    Also, anyone who wants to help with the Deku Scrubs, I think they can be improved upon. I think we should include a natural camouflage that renders them nigh invisible in areas dense with plants.
    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)22:39 No.15119294

    Garo Step
    Requirements: Stealth Rank 3
    XP Cost: ?
    Walk silently, make no sound, and your foe will never know what hit them. So long as you stay within concealment or shadow you will be invisible to your foe within a 5 squares until you move.

    That or use Lens of Truth.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)22:56 No.15119469

    Armor (Wisdom)
    Your clothes shimmer with protective energy as your enemy's blows are magically absorbed.
    Cost: 2 MP per round
    Range: 0 or 5
    Effect: The target recieves damage reduction of 1/2 heart until caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power. The damage reduction does not stack with armor.

    Reflect (Wisdom)
    A wave passes through the air and surrounds the sheild, which now glistens and shines like polished silver.
    -Cost: 2 MP per round
    -Range: 0 or 5
    -Requirement: The target must be holding a shield.
    -Effect: The target's shield gains the Reflective property until the caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power.

    Fire (Power)
    A bolt of fire roars as it soars past.
    -Cost 2MP
    -Range: 10
    -Success: 1/2H fire damage.

    Ice (Wisdom)
    A beam of ice sails through the air.
    -Cost: 2MP
    -Range 10
    -Success: 1/4H Ice damage, and the target's movement is reduced by 1 until the beginning of the caster's turn.

    Fairy Form (Courage)
    With a word, your body explodes into a cloud of glittering dust, revealing a tiny, flying figure when it clears.
    -Cost: 2MP per round
    -Range: 0 or 1
    -Effect: You or the target Shrinks and gains a fly speed of 6, until the caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power.

    Shrinking probably needs it's own description.

    When shrunk,
    -Your mass is 0
    -Your Movement is half it's normal value.
    -You cannot deal damage to normal-sized creatures.
    -You recieve double damage from normal-sized creatures.
    -You can fit through grates, holes, and other small openings.
    -You get a (+2?) bonus to Stealth towards normal-sized creatures.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)23:17 No.15119680
    Elemental Arrow (Power)
    An arrow is charged with elemental energy before it is fired.
    Cost: 2MP (tentative)
    Range: Same as arrow
    Requirements: Target must be firing an arrow
    Success: The effect of a standard Fire or Ice spell (caster's choice) is stacked onto the arrow's damage.

    Light Arrow (Power)
    An arrow is imbued with holy power before being fired.
    Cost: 4MP (tentative, but remains proportionate to the Elemental Arrow, above)
    Range: Same as arrow
    Requirements: Target must be firing an arrow
    Success: An additional 1/2H of Light damage is stacked onto the arrow.

    What do you guys think? I'm thinking the Light Arrow could be more powerful.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 05/31/11(Tue)23:32 No.15119822
    Traditionally, Light Arrows completely disintegrate non-boss enemies, so maybe they could be made a bit more powerful.

    I think they'd work better as items that consumed MP rather than Magic ability, though it might be cool for a magic user to enchant an ally's (or their own) bow.
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)23:40 No.15119899
    Have a collection of awesome art.

    >> Cz 05/31/11(Tue)23:51 No.15119985

    Could it work as a conventional item if your ally has [Alchemy] ?
    >> Anonymous 05/31/11(Tue)23:56 No.15120030
    That's what I was thinking. A magician who owns a bow could also theoretically 'chant his own arrows, cutting out the middleman.
    In the same vein, we have the Spirit Gem effects from Phantom Hourglass. Power magic can get Empower Weapon and Greater Empower Weapon, which add damage, Wisdom magic can get (shielding spell name here) and Greater (shielding spell name here), and Courage can get that sword beam thing. And Greater Sword Beam Thing. Anyone want to write those up?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)00:47 No.15120482
    >giving races Attribute bonuses
    please don't
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)01:16 No.15120742
    Why not? If not at character creation, they could maybe get a bonus dependent on race at certain levels higher up? I'm just trying to think of distinguishing characteristics at this point.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)01:46 No.15121056
    Duel Wield
    Requirements: |Melee| 3, |Acrobatics| 1
    XP Cost: ?
    Two blades are better than one. While wielding two |Melee| weapons you get 1 extra die to all defense rolls against any attacker wielding only one weapon, as well as 1 extra die to attacks against targets wielding one weapon who do not have a shield. You may use both actions to attack without penalty (this is where I suggest a penalty for using both of your actions to attack in one turn), but doing so causes you to lose all dice pool bonuses granted by Dual Wield until the beginning of your next turn.

    There's no reason dual wielding should have a racial requirement.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)01:51 No.15121113
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)01:58 No.15121163
    >Why not?
    attributes cap at 6, each one starts at 1, and you get 4 points to spend at creation (attributes costing 1 per at creation). that one extra attribute at character creation would make the game easy mode. I also hate the idea of enforcing racial stereotypes through game mechanics.
    >I'm just trying to think of distinguishing characteristics at this point.
    have you read the wiki? each race already gets AT LEAST one unique ability at character creation (except for hylians who get a free virtue point of their choice) plus techniques that they can buy later that are only available to their race.
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)02:28 No.15121419

    I never ment it as a racial requirement. I ment it that Gerudos can take this easily which would be a reason for people to play them. While everyone else needs the other skill ranks to take it.

    Could have worded it better but yeah.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)02:31 No.15121436
    I wouldn't have suggested the idea if I had known that they cap out at 6. I must have skipped over that bit. My bad.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)02:43 No.15121523
    ah, I see. that would be why you used a slash instead of a comma between requirements. my bad. yeah, it probably would have been better just to mention that Gerudo can wave the skill requirement in the description. any thoughts on my submission?
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)02:52 No.15121609

    Last post of the night before I head off.

    I like it. Its way more balanced now I'd fund it into the pdf, I still say we should allow Gerudo rights to use this tech without needed the [Melee] and [Acrobatics], again giving people a reason they'd wanna play one. Before I jam if anyone wants to request something for me to drawfag gimmie a shout.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)02:54 No.15121623
    A Deku Scrub character that's melee based?
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)02:56 No.15121642

    Roger, I'll get on that sometime tomorrow.
    >> pax 06/01/11(Wed)02:57 No.15121656
    i think we should increase the attribute cap or have each race get +1 to a virtue of their choice while hylians get 2 or so

    >isentmen institute, good name captcha
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)02:59 No.15121680
    Thanks bro. I'm stoked to see what you can come up with.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)03:07 No.15121737
    >I still say we should allow Gerudo rights to use this tech without needed the [Melee] and [Acrobatics]
    cool with me, although I think anyone playing a Gerudo who would want the technique would be likely to meet the requirements anyway
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)03:15 No.15121812
    Am I the only one who sees that OP's picture would make a great alternative cover to Doom?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)08:10 No.15123471
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    so I was adding the magic meter to my Game Boy Color version of the character sheet, trying to further divide each of the 10 blocks into 6 even blocks, when I said "fuck it. I'll just leave it at 10 blocks and draw 6 tally marks in pencil up to my max and then erase the tally marks as I use magic"
    this seem like a good idea to anyone else?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)09:57 No.15123985
    It was suggested in an earlier thread, but the general consensus seemed to trend toward using distinct subdivisions. If nothing else, having the magic meter subdivided on the character sheet makes it clear exactly how much each block is worth just at a glance.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)10:31 No.15124200
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    If you want, I can just color in the sheet I made, unless you want to put your own spin on it.

    Also, sketches.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)10:58 No.15124361
    Seeing the magic stuff earlier in the thread reminded me that I'd made up some stats awhile back for LttP and OoT spells that I never posted. Here's the OoT stuff, updated to be consistent in formatting with the spells posted above:

    Din's Fire - Power
    An burst of flame expands out from your square, consuming all in its path.
    Cost: 6
    Range: 5 meters
    Roll an unopposed |magic| skill check. For each success, deal 1.5 hearts of [Fire] damage to all creatures and objects within 5 meters of you.

    Nayru's Love - Wisdom
    A shimmering blue diamond encases the target, protecting it from harm
    Cost: 12
    Duration: 3 rounds (?)
    Range: Personal or 1 meter
    The subject is immune to all damaging effects for the duration of the spell, but the caster cannot use any magic power until the spell ends.

    Farore's Wind - Courage
    You instantly warp to a previously designated point.
    Cost: 6
    Range: Unlimited
    This spell is used in two phases.
    The first time you cast it, it sets a magical marker at your current location, which is visible to you as a floating green orb but undetectable to all others.
    Subsequently, you can cast it again to instantaneously warp back to the marker you set previously. This erases the marker; you must set another marker before you can warp again.
    You may transport yourself and up to one additional creature for each rank you have in |magic|.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)11:02 No.15124380
    And now for the LttP stuff...

    Magic Cape - Wisdom
    You become undetectable and untouchable, moving like a ghost.
    Cost: 20 (sustained)
    When activated, you become invisible and incorporeal. You are immune to all attacks and can pass through solid objects unimpeded. You must pay the magic cost every round at the beginning of your turn in order to maintain the effect, though you may choose not to pay the cost (in which case the effect ends immediately). If you don't have enough magic power to pay the cost, the effect ends.

    Cane of Byrna - Wisdom
    You are surrounded by a protective field that protects you and adjacent allies from harm, and damages enemies who get too close.
    Cost: 15 (sustained)
    When activated, this item produces a force field around you in a 1 meter radius. You and any allies within the field are immune to all harm, and any enemy that comes in contact with it takes 1 heart of damage for each round it touches the field. You must pay the magic cost every round at the beginning of your turn in order to maintain the effect, though you may choose not to pay the cost (in which case the effect ends immediately). If you don't have enough magic power to pay the cost, the effect ends.

    Cane of Somaria - Power
    A cube of solid matter appears out of thin air, then explodes in a burst of flame.
    Cost: 2
    Creates a 1m cube of solid matter with mass 6 occupying the space directly in front of you. If that space is occupied by a creature, the creature is displaced to the square opposite you from the block, and takes 1/4 heart of damage. The cane can be activated a second time without paying any magic power to detonate the block, dealing 3/4 heart of [Fire] damage to all creatures within 2 meters, though you are immune to this damage. Blocks created by the Cane of Somaria also detonate in this way if attacked. You may only create one block at a time.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)11:05 No.15124397
    >LttP cont'd...

    Fire Rod - Power
    The air shimmers as a searing bolt of flame streaks toward the target.
    Cost: 4
    Treat as an attack with range 10. Damage increment: 1.5 [Fire]
    Enemies damaged by this attack catch fire for 2 rounds, taking 1/4 heart of damage each round.

    Ice Rod - Power
    A frigid blast of magic encases the target in solid ice.
    Cost: 4
    Treat as an attack with range 10. Damage increment: 0.5 [Ice]
    Enemies damaged by this attack are frozen for 2 rounds. A frozen enemy can take only 1 action per round, moves at 1/2 its normal speed, and takes an additional heart of damage from physical and/or fire-based sources.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)11:05 No.15124402
    >And here's the last of it...

    Ether Medallion - Power
    The air crackles with electricity as bolts of lightning strike your foes.
    Cost: 8
    Roll an unopposed |magic| skill check. For each success, deal 3/4 heart of [Lightning] damage to all targets within 15 meters, or 1 heart per success if the target is airborne. Creatures damaged in this way are stunned (lose one action on their next turn).

    Quake Medallion - Power
    Striking the ground beneath your feet, you cause a violent tremor that damages groundborne foes and knocks them off their feet.
    Cost: 8
    Requirements: Must be standing on a solid surface
    Roll an unopposed |magic| skill check. All groundborne creatures within 15 meters take 3/4 heart of damage per success and are knocked prone. This spell also destroys breakable objects in its area of effect.

    Bombos Medallion - Power
    Fiery explosions rip the air asunder, devastating your foes.
    Cost: 8
    Roll an unopposed |magic| skill check. For each success, deal 1.5 hearts of [Fire] damage to all creatures and objects within 15 meters. This spell also destroys breakable objects in its area of effect.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)11:38 No.15124613
    Looks to me like we need more courage spells/items since right now we mostly have attack-power and defense-wisdom stuff.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)12:15 No.15124876
    Courage is kind of hard to fit into the magic paradigm, since just going off stuff from the games it pretty much only makes sense for the odd utility spell, like Farore's Wind. It might make sense for offensive buffs, though...
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)12:59 No.15125223
    It seems like it would make a good catch-all category, or any spells that move or do more than attack or defend. Offensive wind spells, for example, that don't do much damage but push enemies and allies around.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)13:34 No.15125487
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    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)13:42 No.15125543
    Decided to finally identify myself. I'm the guy in these posts.
    I'll be on later for some more involved discussion.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)14:28 No.15125985
    FYI, I added a link to the dice probability spreadsheet to the wiki. Gave it a tinyURL too, since the Google Docs URL is really long.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)16:45 No.15127392
    Here is a small idea: Why not add enchantments/upgrades as an available crafting skill or feature? Now I am not talking about bigger damage enchantments or anything like that, but something more along the lines of giving a base weapon an extra function.

    Say, for example, giving a battle axe the properties of a boomerang, or the blade of a sword being able to launch out like a hookshot.

    That aside, I could see magic users able to temporarily enchant weapons so they do extra damage for a certain amount of time. I am against permanent damage increasing, though. It sounds like it could be abused too easily.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)17:52 No.15128019

    While I don't agree with the more out there enchantments, temporary upgrades to damage could work. Kind of like using the Fairy Fountains in Link to the Past.
    Maybe that could fall under Courage spells?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)18:14 No.15128189
    Possibly. Heck, with how the virtues are set up, Courage fits perfectly as a buff magic category, while Wisdom is healing/defense, and Power is offensive.

    On that note, I've noticed a lot of notion on XP spending for skills and attributes. How exactly will XP be gained? By monster destruction? By clearing dungeons?

    And how much will be given? Is it going to be a whole 'slowly get enough points' sort of thing, or are experience points going to be popped and used like candy?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)18:18 No.15128215
    Power Spells: Fire, direct damage, terrain altering (creating platforms, destroying walls)

    Wisdom Spells: Ice/water, defensive buffs or hindering offensive magic, healing.

    Courage Spells: Wind, Offensive buffs, movement and exploration spells (teleporting or transforming)
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)18:22 No.15128254
    On a completely unrelated note, Deku Scrubs.
    First: They're light. Very light. See Majora's Mask about their ability to skip over the surface of water. How should we incorporate that?
    Second: They're plants. Maybe they should have some kind of camouflage ability.
    Third: Their projectile attack. That needs to be refined. While finding something small enough to fit in their mouths and use as a weapon could be a hassle, having them make an infinite amount of their own projectiles could get a little hectic. Opinions, anyone?
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)18:51 No.15128502
    Maybe for normal attacks, Deku require Deku Nuts or Seeds to spit? That way the character could just buy a bag of them and keep track of them as any other ammo.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)18:52 No.15128512

    I think all that comes under racial techniques.

    Someone needs to make an executive decision about magic and techniques if we're gonna move forward on them. We're stuck in the basics without really moving anywhere.

    Though what do I know. I'm lurking /tg/ just for these threads, waiting for the finished system and damn excited about it.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)20:31 No.15129200
    That looks like a pretty decent breakdown, though I'm kind of ambivalent about the elemental associations. On the one hand, I feel like a high-damage ice-based spell should still fall under Power, not Wisdom, but on the other hand the associations are definitely there in the games. Power/Din is fire and earth, Wisdom/Nayru is water and ice, and Courage/Farore is wind.

    Deku scrubs are already the lightest-weight races, and I don't see why we couldn't include a short-distance water-skipping effect. The camouflage makes sense too; in fact, I think it was one of the originally proposed abilities for Deku, but it got lost when races got trimmed down to bare-bones stuff for the wiki.
    As for the spitting ability, I think it's fine as-is on the wiki. Spending two actions to generate and then fire a piddly-weak ranged attack with a fairly short range isn't much compared to what Zora and Gorons have, and it shouldn't be that hard to find other appropriate ammo -- Deku nuts and seeds are, after all, among the most ubiquitous items in the N64 games. Plus then you can add in the special seeds from the Oracle games, and we could make up rules for minibombs and shit.

    On the subject of ranged attacks, though, it strikes me that the ranges used in most of the statlines I've seen for ranged weapons on the wiki and in these threads must be placeholders. If we're going by a 1 meter = 1 square system, then range 15 for a bow obviously can't be referring to the actual range. We should probably do something about that.
    My (tentative, pulling-numbers-out-my-ass) proposals:
    >Bow: 100 m
    >Slingshot: 30 m
    >Seed Shooter: 50 m (given that it makes the seeds bounce, I'd assume it has a bit more oomph than a slingshot)
    >Hookshot: 20 m (40 m for longshot)
    >Bomb/Deku nut/other thrown: 10 m
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)22:01 No.15129952
    Scrubs shoot seeds. They're vast in number, and they have no effects other than piss-poor damage. It makes the most sense.
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)22:02 No.15129954
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    So it was requested, so it shall be!
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)22:03 No.15129965
    I love it! Thanks so much.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)22:04 No.15129971
    Well in majora's mask the dekulink shot bubbles, not seeds. The enemy deku shot seeds/nuts of course.
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)22:13 No.15130070
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    >Scrubs shoot seeds. They're vast in number, and they have no effects other than piss-poor damage. It makes the most sense.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)22:37 No.15130280
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    Decided to try some doodle of a Zora archer due to me being SO DAMN EXCITED
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)22:42 No.15130321
    Dekus get Bubble Blast as a magic-fueled technique that you have to buy.
    Not saying that they totally can't launch halberds at approaching moblin armies. Just that Seeds would be the easiest ammunition to come by.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)22:59 No.15130481
    Frankly, I'm not sure I get how the bubbles could be any better than seeds. I mean, by all appearances they seem to be made out of mucus...

    Given the choice between a dense, hard object and a fist-sized loogie, I think I'd go with the former. Unless I was just trying to insult or disgust someone rather than injure, in which case it's loogies all the way, lol.
    >> potential executive decision Temporary Combat Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)23:06 No.15130548
    How about this?

    >The Magic Meter has a maximum of 10 blocks. Each blocks has 6 Magic Points.
    >When creating a character, the length of your Magic Meter is equal to the ranks in magic Skill that you have. Each rank is one block.
    >You can normally gain up to 6 blocks in your Magic Meter by leveling up the Magic skill. The other 4 blocks must be found like Heart Containers: through quests and exploration.

    What do you guys think? It lets the 6-point block work, fits with how new Heart Containers are awarded, and allows characters who don't focus on Mental exclusively to be have a decent amount of magic power.

    The only drawback I can see is that magic items that drain MP might be useless for non-magic users. However, if level 1 skills are cheap enough, buying 6 points of magic is enough to let a non-caster use the item for a decent amount of time.
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)23:06 No.15130550

    I can see a [Heavy] and Deku feature where they can shoot super heavy shit out their mouths.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)23:18 No.15130653
    The bubbles will have some kind of stun.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)23:20 No.15130671
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    MORE art! MOAR!

    This time of a Sheika rogue-type fighting a giant poe-summoning necromancer.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)23:26 No.15130712
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    >"...oh Gods, what's he doing with our ball and chain?"

    Never drawfagged before, I need some ideas.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/01/11(Wed)23:38 No.15130818
    We don't have NEARLY enough Gorons, if you think you're up for it. If you're not you can always do moar Deku.
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 06/01/11(Wed)23:45 No.15130883
    I'm on the case!
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)23:50 No.15130910
    So are we placing this in a specific point in the timeline or is this more of an ANY ZELDA ANY TIME sorta game?
    >> Cz 06/01/11(Wed)23:53 No.15130936

    Any. I know I'd take my game during the time Link went into the Sacred Realm and Gannondorf starts wrecking shit.
    >> Anonymous 06/01/11(Wed)23:58 No.15130967
    If that's the case, I want to just throw this out there.

    We might wanna stat more races. I mean, not to compare us to the horrible d20 Zelda rpg, but maybe we should at least do as many races. I dunno. I'd at least consider Twili and Subrosians.

    Mind you, I haven't been here for the previous threads, so maybe you already discussed this?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)00:07 No.15131039
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)00:08 No.15131044
    From a simulationist perspective, that makes sense, but it does really restrict characters who don't train |magic|. Which is especially bad given that we were planning to have some techniques outside of |magic|, such as advanced versions of the spin attack, that consume magic meter.

    Given that Mental was fully intended to be the magic stat right from the get-go (and would be the driving attribute anytime you'd need to roll for anything to do with magic anyway, no matter how we determined the magic meter size), I don't see why we shouldn't make Mental the driving component. If you want to be awesome at magic, you'll have to sacrifice physical combat, and vice-versa. If you want to do both, you'll have to settle for being a little less awesome at both than a specialist is in either. It makes sense, and it's not really unfair either.
    I'd say making your magic meter blocks = 1 + Mental, with obtainable upgrades later, might work better. The slower rate of magic meter expansion that would come with keying off of an attribute rather than a skill meshes better with the video games (where your magic meter starts off fairly decently sized and can only be expanded once), and basing it on something that has a minimum of 1 rank means everyone has at least a little bit of magic power to use for things like the Lens of Truth and non-|magic| techniques that consume magic power. Going with 1 + Mental rather than just Mental makes it so a minmaxed character will have an even half of the maximum magic meter at character creation, which is more aesthetically appealing than starting with some odd interval.
    And if we want to keep characters with no magic training from using their little bit of magic power to drop the occasional Din's Fire or whatever when they're in a pinch, we can just add skill rank prerequisites to the spells (which, incidentally, is something I think we should do no matter how the magic meter ends up).
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)00:08 No.15131045
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    They're on the way. Rito, maybe Koroks, and even monster races like moblins and stalfos have been suggested.

    I did some gorons and deku up in >>15124200 but here's the princess from the kid group shot in more detail.

    We should have an option to allow players to play kid heroes. Maybe just a free -1 to default mass and another -1 to default speed to make up for it. Or just ignore mass differences altogether.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)00:13 No.15131084
    Good idea, better than mine, and ties in with Hearts being affected by an attribute too. While I'd rather see it be just blocks = Mental instead of 1+mental (since that would leave only 3 magic meter rewards avaliable), it's not that big a deal.
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 06/02/11(Thu)00:36 No.15131237
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    Ta dah!
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)01:06 No.15131429
    Or. Or. Here's an idea.
    Have the players play kid heroes up to a certain point, and then an event happens which causes a timeskip at level (_____). I'm not certain about the idea myself, I'm just throwing it out there to see if anyone can expand upon it. I think you guys would probably prefer to play mature characters from the get-go, but having options is nice.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:11 No.15131464
    >(since that would leave only 3 magic meter rewards avaliable)

    Well, assuming that they actually are willing to max out Mental after character creation...which is a pretty hefty investment. I wouldn't count on too many people doing that, so there's a bit more wiggle room than that.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:16 No.15131486
    XP gain is meant to be slow sense all stats have a fairly low cap. I imagine it's going to be like WoD or SW where the GM just gives out a handful of points at the end of a session. One for showing up, one for role-playing, one for completing some important task/advancing the plot, maybe a bonus point for anyone who does anything especially creative
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)01:18 No.15131494
    What about every other game besides Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess where Link is young for the entire adventure?

    That's not to say that timeskips aren't a bad idea, but they shouldn't be default. I can see it being used very well, perhaps if the adventurers fail in their quest early on and must deal with the aftermath as adults.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:20 No.15131507
    I added the ability for Deku to spend an action producing a deku nut to the wiki last night
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:21 No.15131512
    is the sheikah being thrown by the goron?
    >> JSCervini !!L+hOixyXrvo 06/02/11(Thu)01:23 No.15131520
    Yes. Yes the shiekah is being thrown by the goron. Because that's the first thing I thought when I read >>15130671
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:28 No.15131542
    Legend of Zelda and Zelda 2.

    Zelda 2 he is explicitly stated as being 16 years old. Same age as OoT.

    In the same manual that identifies Link as 16 also says it had been less than 2 years since he slew Ganon.

    Stack on top of that ALttP Link is explicitly stated as 15 in the japanese instruction manual for the game.

    Not adult by any stretch, but about the same age as OoT and TP.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:30 No.15131554
    the key word there bing "Link"
    Link is always a special case, and he was given the bubble ability by the Great Fairy.
    Deku PC's are going to be much more like regular Dekus than Deku Link.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:31 No.15131555
    that's fucking awesome
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)01:31 No.15131561
    Thanks. That reminds me, we need someone who can dedicate themselves to keeping the wiki updated as changes come into play. Any volunteers?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:33 No.15131568
    I've been updating a little here and there for a while now. basically when I see an idea that I doubt anyone is likely to object and is easy enough to change if anyone does, I go ahead and stick it in the wiki
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)01:35 No.15131583
    Thanks. You're a huge help.
    Do you personally have any suggestions as far as races go? Not necessarily new ones, but changes to the currently proposed.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:41 No.15131605
    Mechanics need to be worked out for Rito's flying (I added them but wasn't sure how to handle flying at the time) and I would like to see Twili as a playable race.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:44 No.15131631

    I like the idea of rules for statting child characters, but there definitely shouldn't be any sort of requirements built in for character age.

    If a group wants to run an all-child party? Cool, they should be able to do that. They want to do a timeskip? They should be able to do that too. They want to be adults or near-adults (at least by the standards of the medieval setting)? That should also be an option supported by the rules.

    Simply coming up with how child character stats differ from adult counterparts should be sufficient to provide players and GMs with all the options they might need in that regard. We don't even need specific rules for timeskips if we keep the child stats to just a simple set of modifiers that can be easily added or removed when necessary.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)01:47 No.15131657
    I'm not saying that it's always the case, but I am saying that there's a precedent for kid heroes in Zelda, and it would be easy to provide an option to allow for it.

    Would flight be a purchaseable technique (they have to earn it, after all) or something avaliable to them from character creation? I'm in favor of the former, but that leaves them without a starting benefit.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:50 No.15131677
    >Would flight be a purchaseable technique
    I was thinking that too, sense they have to go see the whatchucallit before they can even grow wings in the game, but I don't know what else to start them with.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)01:51 No.15131684
    We'd obviously have to think of something. Hopefully supported by canon.
    Twili are.... tricky. Plus, we never really get a clear idea of the abilities of the Twili population at large(Just Zant and Midna, who are without a doubt special cases).
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:53 No.15131703
    Maybe something as simple as giving children characters -1 mass and a max starting physical of 3.

    And then old characters might be able to place either their mental or their spiritual as high as 5, but again, can only start with 3 for physical.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:56 No.15131722
    i don't think being able to start with 5 in an attribute is a good idea
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:57 No.15131730
    >What about every other game besides Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess where Link is young for the entire adventure?
    >every other game

    Your post seemed to flatly say it was. Just correcting someone wrong on the internet, that's all. Now you could have meant that half of the other games half a child Link. However that would force me to assume you are an idiot typing with insanely poor grammar. And I do not like to make that assumption, even when people are wrong.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)01:59 No.15131754
    i think you misfired
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)02:01 No.15131764
    Oh, shit, sorry man. I was talking about the Rito. I was intentionally staying out of this whole Link Age Thing because, as was said, Link is a special case.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)02:03 No.15131774
    I thought just a -1 mass for children would work.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)02:08 No.15131810
    this sounds good to me. I figure people can just say "i'm taking -1 mass because i'm playing a young character" just like they can say "i'm taking -1 mass because i'm playing a skinny character"
    I suppose they could also play a fat kid and keep the default mass
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)02:09 No.15131822
    Do you think a -1 movement would also be in order? 'cause, you know, short legs.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)02:16 No.15131886
    Oh. I meant a -1 to default mass.

    An average Hylian has 4 Mass and 6 Movement and a Hylian child could have 3 Mass and 6 Movement.

    Might not apply to things like Dekus, since their mass is so small to begin with. Plus the children don't seem to be much bigger than adults.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)02:34 No.15132018
    Well, I'm out you guys. See you tomorrow.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/02/11(Thu)06:31 No.15133352
    On the subject of magic, could the magic meter be determined by a combination of Mental and Spiritual? I could easily see both being argued as important where magic is concerned. Certain Mental would be what you'd go to for actually using the magic, but spiritual could be a component for determining how much power you have to draw from. Most simply you could just add them together for the number of blocks/whatever you have available.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)08:47 No.15133992
    Now one thing I am curious about are how physical techniques, like the downward sword strike, spin attack, and rapid sword strikes will work. It is easy to figure out what each may do. (For example, the rapid sword strike, which is a flurry of sword blows in one attack, might give the attacker an extra keep die or two for his attack.) but will there be a limit to them? Will there be dailies, or will they also consume the magic meter? To keep things streamlined, I'd think most sword techniques that are hard to do would cost magic meter, while the smaller works would require only an extra move per turn or a charge rate or something similar. (Like a quick spin attack would be done at will, while a charged spin attack would have a cost) This will have it so that both magic users and swordsmen both still have to seek to build up magic one and the same, and also keep the system itself from having to do the crappy 4e Daily/Encounter/At-Will powers system.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)09:41 No.15134341
    charged spin attack doesn't take magic, but takes 2 actions to charge (1 turn) and getting hit disrupts the technique. jump strike takes 1 action to strike + 1 action to recover, leaving you vulnerable afterward. there's nothing limiting how often you can use them (except for the fact that they take two actions) but because they have drawbacks you're likely to only use them as often as you have the tactical advantage to do so. least that's how I see it.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)10:00 No.15134489
    *Sigh*...here we go again. We really need to either change the attribute names to clear this up, or just put a big fat disclaimer that says "Despite what the name may suggest, Spiritual does not play a role in magic use."

    Aside from issues with attribute name confusion, I'd still be opposed to this because it makes magic-users dependent on two attributes for their specialty, which other archetypes don't need to worry about. A swordsman or an archer can focus solely on Physical, a socialite or instrumentalist can focus solely on Spiritual, so a mage should be free to focus solely on Mental. MAD is never fun, particularly not when one of the attributes you're dependent on only contributes to your specialty in one very specific area.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)10:12 No.15134567
    The only magic Spiritual applies to is songs which are played with instruments and as far as I know don't use the magic meter.
    >We really need to either change the attribute names to clear this up...
    I've said this numerous times. I was opposed to ever changing "social" to "spiritual" in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)11:02 No.15134906
    Why not change spiritual to Emotional? It has both the connotations of understanding others and powerful music.
    >> Sir Scribe 06/02/11(Thu)11:07 No.15134944
    That's a good idea, actually.

    Also, another player request from a potential beta-tester: Do we have plans to incorporate summoning magic? If so, how is it going to work?

    Guy wants to play a Wisdom-based Twili who just trolls everyone's pants off by summoning Wallmasters. Just Wallmaster, all the fucking time.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)11:11 No.15134972
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    >Just Wallmaster, all the fucking time.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)11:12 No.15134979
    >Do we have plans to incorporate summoning magic?
    No. At least not yet. Not really sure how that would work.
    it sounds gay, but at least it's less confusing than "spiritual", and I've been trying to get "spiritual" changed to something else for a while.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)11:22 No.15135039
    all instances of "spiritual" have been changed to "emotional" on the wiki until/unless someone can come up with something better to call it
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)11:41 No.15135162
    There is precedent for summoning. Wizrobes did it in Wind Waker and we certainly want to allow wizrobe-style players.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)12:19 No.15135488
    I think the most important thing to get done is figuring out exactly how the roll/keep system works in combat and what needs. Until we do that, we won't be able to accurately design monsters or techniques.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)12:20 No.15135495
    *what needs fixing, damn it.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)12:53 No.15135774
    Obviously there needs to be two types of defense rolls: Active Defense (AD) and Passive Defense (PD). Active is when the target is on his guard (Prepped the action on his turn) or actively fighting the target hitting him. Active defense could be acrobatic dodging, or the preparation of a shield. Passive would be when the attack is unexpected or area of effect damage he would not have been aware of. (Like a trap or a knife to the back.)

    Whenever combat is initiated, the player may roll his attack dice on a monster. The attack roll would more than likely be the weapon skill chosen. (Sword users use melee, Ball and Chain users using heavy, etc) The defender, seeing the attack coming, would use their AD roll. The swordsman has a Melee skill roll of 5k3. The monster has an AD of 4k3. Both of them roll.

    The hero gets a 2,4,6,1, and 4.
    The monster gets 3, 4, 3, and 1.

    The hero keeps his three highest (4,4,6) while the monster keeps his three highest. (3,3,4)

    Since all three of the hero's dice rolls are higher than the monster's, the monster takes all three increments of damage. The hero is using, well, a hero's sword, which does half a heart in damage for ever increment that succeeds.

    With all three increments successful, the monster takes a 1 1/2 hearts of damage.

    That's just an example idea to try going by.
    >> Cz 06/02/11(Thu)13:05 No.15135866

    It could work if either the player or enemy is stating their going to guard themselves because I can see some enemies taking a turn to tell their attacks like a huge fire blast from the King Dodongo. Where it takes up two turns but somehow the enemy is protected by a AG say for activating a huge weakpoint or flaw before they let out the attack, aka throwing a bomb in it's mouth.

    Same can go for players, they activate a huge spell which they tell the DM which takes up their two turns but puts the player on an AD leaving them open for the enemy to either guard the oncoming attack, or exploit the player's weakness.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)13:09 No.15135891
    This is true. A good way to counteract this is by making defense an action in itself. A interrupt action, possibly, but one you have to ready on your turn and take up one of your actions. This would force players to choose between either higher damage, or better defense. It would make battles more technical and less reliant on spamming spin attack over and over again.
    >> Cz 06/02/11(Thu)13:16 No.15135958
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    That or also take a move action to roll the crap out of the way if they know they couldn't take the hit even with their current defense.

    >move action
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)13:18 No.15135979
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    And this is why we have acrobatics.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)13:19 No.15135995
    The numbers, I think, are what needs working out. Monsters need to be designed in mind for generalist characters, ones who will be attacking with 4k3 or 5k3 pools and defending with similar numbers. The monster's defenses can't be too high or fights will take too long, and their attacks can't be too low that they have no chance of hitting their enemies. Accuracy is the big issue.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)13:31 No.15136143
    I am thinking that minor enemies like Octoroks, Rats, Bokoblins, and Keese will be ones that PCs can beat on their own early level, MAYBE with a Moblin as a leader of an encounter and the main target.. Then when the players have their bearings are are more battle ready, Moblins and Bokoblin become more of the main enemies, with Miniblin becoming the big swarm enemies that players may encounter. Then come the Ball & Chain Troopers, Lizardmen, Wizzrobs, and of course the deadly Darknuts.

    I would suggest we stat a few from each 'difficulty' so we know what the basis of each monster's strength should be.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/02/11(Thu)14:25 No.15136568
    Good point. Hadn't considered MAD for casters. The difficulty will be making the numbers work for both focused magic-users and those who will use the magic meter for other things (like advanced sword spins).

    It sounds odd, but that is much clearer. Other options include Influential, Personality, Interaction, or good ol' Social. Presence, perhaps?
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/02/11(Thu)14:28 No.15136599
    With freeform xp spending and no clearly defined ranking system, categorizing monsters/enemies into threat categories will be more difficult. Should probably make it 3 or 4 broad categories of approximate threat to characters; minimal, moderate, challenging, extreme, or something like that. There will be variation within each category, but this should be understood by the player and GM.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)14:50 No.15136777
    Considering the system, this could be helpful. But then again we need to keep in mind that we are not even sure how XP is obtained yet. It does not yet have to be for each monster killed, as HP recovery, Rupees, and loot in general could be good enough of a reward as is. It could instead be something given at the completion of each quest/dungeon for all we know.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)15:30 No.15137126
    -Keese (1/4H - should die in one hit)
    -Octorok (1H?)
    -Skullwalltula (or just little skulltulas)
    -Miniblin (individually)
    -Deku scrub
    -Deku baba

    Low threat
    -Stalfos (2D kind)
    -Baba serpent
    -Hylian soldier

    Moderate threat
    -Stalfos Knight
    -Hylian knight
    -River Zora

    -Seahat/Big Peahat
    -Ball & Chain Soldier

    Very dangerous
    -Iron Knuckle
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)15:55 No.15137284
    Add a few sample bosses, and I do believe we have just found our first Zelda Beastiary list.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)16:46 No.15137632
    so spiritual has now become Emotional?

    hm... Physical, Mental, Emotional
    sounds weird

    how about "Body, Mind, Soul"?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)16:48 No.15137646
    How about "Spirit" instead of "Spiritual"?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)17:12 No.15137822
    Try to think of it as [ATTRIBUTE][VIRTUE].
    Physical Power, Mental Wisdom, Emotional Courage.
    Or Social Courage, Spiritual Courage, Spirit/Courage, Spirit of courage...
    There's been a bunch of arguments over this already.

    Emotional works pretty well, I think. Spirit and spiritual have some issues with being associated with magic. Social had some problems as well, if I remember right.
    Not that Emotional gives a proper reason for increased perception.
    There's probably a good word to use instead, but let's focus on something that's not the social/spiritual/emotional stat for once. Please?

    >devotis leweeks
    Capthca seems to be telling us to have a stat for Devotion. Those that sound like a good idea? The Goddesses are pretty important, after all.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)17:37 No.15138021
         File1307050666.jpg-(21 KB, 384x256, care_bears.jpg)
    21 KB
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)17:52 No.15138129
         File1307051552.jpg-(21 KB, 255x288, rage-face.jpg)
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    No, that's Emotional Courage. Or Mental Courage diplomancer whatzits.

    Pic Related for Emotional Power.
    >or just intimidating people i guess
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)18:31 No.15138424
    JAN has returned for discussion of racial traits. Who's got something for me?
    >> Sir Scribe 06/02/11(Thu)18:40 No.15138489
    How do the mechanics work for the Twili's racial shadow-teleport?

    Also, I think Body/Mind/Soul is our best bet.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)18:50 No.15138551
    I can't find Twili on the wiki, when the hell were they added?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)18:52 No.15138574
    Warning: this is a bit incoherent...


    A stat for devotion? Maybe with a religious sort of name?

    Something like SPIRITUAL, perhaps?

    Actually, as the guy who suggested Spiritual in the first place, I kinda want to give my take on it.

    - Spiritual is getting beings to like you, so if you play their favourite tune well enough, they can give you a lift to the Temple, no probs.
    - Mental is your "learning how magic works so you can use it" attribute, instead of busking for whatever loose effects the Powers That Be will throw you like Spiritual is.

    I really like the tiers of enemies idea, especially for dungeon design (later dungeons have stronger enemies by default).
    Maybe each enemy has its own "XP Price" and each room has an XP budget?

    Also, how many rooms should there be between:
    the first room of the dungeon -> the Dungeon Map -> the Compass -> the Dungeon Item (Bow, Boomerang, etc.) -> the Boss Key -> the Boss Room?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)18:59 No.15138627
    If we're going to change the attributes to nouns, I'd prefer Spirit rather than Soul. Soul seems like it would be easier to slip into the same confusion Spiritual has regarding magic, whereas Spirit is somewhat more easily associated with emotional states.
    Also, Body, Mind, and Soul are the names of the stats in BESM, so using them could be kind of confusing for people familiar with that system since we're handling them somewhat differently.

    One thing that was also suggested at one point was Body/Mind/Heart, but that could stand to get a little confusing since we're using hearts to measure damage...
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)18:59 No.15138632
    There wouldn't be anything wrong with Spiritual as a stat name if people didn't keep getting it confused for a magic-governing ability. Social and Emotional both have their ups and downs, but they're both quite a bit more clear-cut.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)19:20 No.15138807
    Also, back to my area of focus. Did we ever come to a conclusion on Deku Scrubs skipping over water and Hylians being able to Pray?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)19:21 No.15138815
    Someone posted them in thread five or six, I think. Haven't really checked the wiki.

    >A stat for devotion?
    >Something like SPIRITUAL, perhaps?
    Eh, I don't know. That or [Devotion]/[Belief]/[Religion]/[something to do with gods]
    Don't know when in would be relevant to roll for, though. A mechanic for it would be nice atleast.

    >edintage physics, captcha seemed related
    You know, I really liked that Pitmaster monster someone speculated on before. Think someone could stat one up?
    (It's the one that lurks at the bottom of "bottomless" pits and steals a bit of healthbefore dropping you of at the entrance of the room.)

    >We're at 297 posts with this one, and autosage is at what, 300?
    >Does anyone want to make the new thread?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)19:34 No.15138927
    Regarding the whole Spiritual-naming debacle...would it work to just have a clear, concise description of what falls under the different attributes?

    For example, think about D&D. I know I've seen quite a few people who had trouble figuring out the difference between Int and Wis at first, but with the descriptions in the PHB it becomes pretty clear. And given that we only have 3 stats to D&D's 6, it makes sense that there might be a bit more ambiguity, since each of our stats has to cover a broader range of categories. But if we just put clear descriptions of the attributes and virtues by themselves (in addition to the 9 virtue/attribute combinations currently on the wiki) that could go a long way toward reducing the confusion, and still let us keep a name for the third attribute that makes sense for all of its various applications, even if it is somewhat ambiguous at first glance.
    And then if somebody questions it, we just point them to the wiki and say "no, you see, Spiritual doesn't work that way". And it doesn't even need to be a "because I said so" type of thing; I think the distinction in >>15138574 makes for a pretty sensible explanation of the rationale behind it.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)19:37 No.15138948
    Here's a comparison chart. I gave approximations of D&D skills that would fall under the various Virtue/Attribute combinations.
    Physical Power - Any checks involving great physical strength

    Physical Wisdom - Hide, Balance, Tumble

    Physical Courage - Swim, Climb, Jump, Ride

    Mental Power - Disable Device, Decipher Script

    Mental Wisdom - Knowledge

    Mental Courage - Concentration

    Social Power - Intimidate

    Social Wisdom - Diplomacy

    Social Courage - Perform
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)19:41 No.15138987
    Let's go with "Spirit". There's precedent for it, and it seems to fit the feel better.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)19:44 No.15139014
    Plus we don't want to have this discussion again three times in every thread.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/02/11(Thu)19:46 No.15139030
    Is it just me, or is the thread autosaging?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)19:50 No.15139063
    Nope. Started autosaging a while ago.
    Anyone up for making the next thread?
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)19:59 No.15139141
    Heck, I've made three of 'em already, I'll take care of it.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/02/11(Thu)20:01 No.15139156
    We should probably put the name of the stat on the back-burner, and focus more on hammering out mechanics. We know what the stat -does-, so what we decide to call it can be figured out later.

    What are our 2-3 primary mechanical concerns at the moment? Techniques, XP-gain, and...?

    XP-Gain: Given the feel I'm getting from the system thus far, it seems right that gaining xp should be based on quest/accomplishment completion rather than just monster-murder. You could have a baseline small award given at the end of each game session, like with Dark Heresy and WoD, and then small additional awards based on quest/task advancement or completion.
    >> Anonymous 06/02/11(Thu)20:07 No.15139219
    New thread

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