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    149 KB The Legend of Zelda RPG - Thread #15 Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:24 No.15396589  
    Last time on the LoZ RPG creation project: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15375622/
    Wiki page: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_RPG
    >The wiki is the more or less official compilation of the system rules as they become finalized. There are some things missing, and some outdated things that may need updated, but please read it first if you're new to these threads, or if you haven't been around for awhile. Please don't ask for explanations of things that are already explained in the wiki.

    >Quick summary
    3 Virtues: Power, Wisdom, Courage
    3 Attributes: Physical, Mental, Spiritual
    Some skills, mostly item-based in keeping with Zelda themes.
    A number of techniques/abilities, which are purchased a-la-carte with XP. Most of them will be tied to a specific skill, requiring a certain number of ranks in that skill to learn.

    The system uses a d6 roll & keep system, using linear comparison for opposed checks. This means that you roll X six-sided dice (with X = your ranks in the relevant Attribute + 1 for each odd-numbered rank in the relevant skill) and only use the Y highest rolls (with Y = your ranks in the relevant Virtue + 1 for each even-numbered skill rank) -- expressed in shorthand as XkY. Linear comparison means that in the case of a contested roll (such as in combat) you compare your highest roll to your opponent's highest, your second highest to their second highest, and so forth. If one party in the contest has more kept dice than the opponent, the extra dice are automatic successes.

    Unopposed rolls are compared to a fixed success threshold, with a certain number of successes required to accomplish the intended task. For example, pushing a heavy block might require 2 successes, with success defined as a die showing 4 or greater; in this case, you'd roll Physical and keep Power.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:26 No.15396603
    Character advancement is free-form, with XP investment improving skills and attributes. Virtues are extremely difficult to improve, and shouldn't change much over the course of a typical game. Techniques range from new combat moves (such as the jump attack and sword beam) to unique racial talents (zora creating an electrical field) and passive abilities (being able to walk across shifting sand unhindered). Most techniques have a skill or virtue prerequisite before they can be purchased. Certain races may recieve XP discounts or lower prerequisites for certain techniques.

    Core races consist of Deku Scrub, Goron, Kokiri, Korok, Rito, Twili, Zora, Hylian, Gerudo and Sheikah, with more under discussion. Each race gets a couple nifty abilities (eg, Gorons can curl into a ball and roll around, Zora can breathe underwater, and so forth). Humans (which include Hylians, Gerudo and Sheikah) instead get a +1 to the Virtue of their choice (though this can't be applied to put any Virtue over the usual starting limit of 4), and get discounts on certain techniques associated with their race. No other races get any bonuses to Virtues. Each race also has a Mass score, which affects movement speed, getting knocked/pushed around, use of the hookshot/clawshot, and so forth.

    Damage is measured in hearts, and can be dealt in fractions of up to 1/4 heart. Your character has hearts equal to 2 + Physical, making the minimum number of hearts 3. Hearts can be increased by increasing your Physical value, and by obtaining Pieces of Heart and Heart Containers, which will be distributed as rewards for beating bosses and tough puzzles and the like.

    Magic spells and items use Magic Power (with a basic attack spell using 2MP.) The Magic Meter is divided into blocks, each with 6MP. Starting MP is equal to 6 x your Mental value, or one block per Mental. Additional blocks can be aquired by improving your mental score and as rewards (like Heart Containers)
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:28 No.15396623
    Holy shit I didn't think this would still be going. I love /tg/ for this.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:30 No.15396643
    >Shit that needs done:

    Techniques: We need more, particularly for skills other than |melee|.

    Magic: We have rough drafts of the mechanics for most of the magic from the video games, but they need some revising, and we should probably come up with some homebrewed stuff to completely flesh out the list. I'll post the current drafts

    Starting gear: The plan currently is to allow players to pick three items of their choice to start with, but we need to decide what is and isn't appropriate for a starting character. And speaking of gear...

    Special items: We have statlines for basic weapons and armor on the wiki, but not much for the more exotic items like the hookshot, spinner, and so forth.

    And I'm sure there's more, but this should be good to kickstart the new thread.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:37 No.15396700
    The stats for magic would take several posts to state here, so I've uploaded them to a .txt file. These are copy-pasted directly from thread 7, where they were originally proposed, and could definitely use some revision.

    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:39 No.15396715
    is |Perception| a skill now? If so it needs to be added to the wiki.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/26/11(Sun)20:52 No.15396790
    If someone would be so kind as to add the songs and things from last thread to the wiki, thatveoukd be much appreciated. Not much I can do from here.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)20:55 No.15396814
    I think so, yes.

    On a related note, this was posted in the old thread after it went autosage:

    >How would anybody be aver be able to melee sneak attack. It seems to me that the way stealth skill is now it is not posible to create a melee character capable of sneak attacking without the use of flash bomb vanish tech. Last time i checked the stealth write up allowed to make a sneak attack for the next atk you made after stealthing, you would los hidden but you could make a sneak attack, but now you cant, it irks me to think that just ranged characters will be able to sneak attack.

    It appears that this concern is due to an ambiguity in the stealth rules as stated on the wiki. The problem line is probably:

    >Not every action may allow you to remain hidden -- for example, moving out into the open will obviously give you away, as will shouting, setting off a bomb, and so forth.

    Simply put, the wiki isn't very clear on exactly what disqualifies you from staying hidden. As the one who wrote that draft, my point was that you can't go prancing about in front of the enemy's face and get a sneak attack because you made a good |stealth| roll. However, it doesn't mean you must stay behind cover at all times -- you can sneak up behind the enemy, even if it would expose you to others. You can be hidden from one creature but not others.
    Sorry for not being clear enough with that, I just figured it would be common sense.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)20:57 No.15396826
    Here's what I've got for XP costs for the current techniques. I changed a few of them because there was a bit of peculiarity on the shield techniques, and a lot of techniques didn't list any check. I didn't think automatic effects were where we wanted to go for Techiniques. Here we go:

    ---Racial Techniques---
    Deku Bubble (Active)
    Requirements: Deku Scrub
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: X
    MP Cost: X
    This Deku may spend X actions to fire one bubble with the Stun property from his "nose" at a single target. For each action spent, the Deku spends 1 magic point and adds 1/4 heart to the damage increment and 10 metres to the range. The maximum number of actions a Deku can spend on this techniques is equal to their Power, and the attack is made as the final action of the technique.

    Goron Spikes (Active)
    Requirements: Goron
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 2
    MP Cost: 2 Sustained
    Goron may spend 1 turn in rolled-up form to generate magical Spikes with a 1/2 Damage increment; each turn this is active, the Goron spends 2 Magic Points. If the Goron leaves the ball form or comes to a stop, they must spend an additional turn to "regrow" them.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)20:58 No.15396833
    Goron Might (Passive)
    Requirements: Goron, Brawler technique
    XP Cost: 3
    Your unarmed attacks do 3/4H damage, and you can choose to do fire damage.
    Bladed fins (Passive)
    Requirements: Zora, Brawler technique
    XP Cost: 3
    Your unarmed attacks gain the Edged property. In addition, as a Single Action you can make a Ranged/Wisdom attack using the damage of your unarmed attack damage with a range of 10. It takes another Single Action to retrieve your fins, and you cannot attack until your fins return.
    Lightning Shield (Active)
    Requirements: Zora
    XP Cost: 4
    Actions: 2+
    MP Cost: 2 Sustained
    This Zora may exude an aura that hits every creature within 2 meters in water for 1/2 heart of electrical damage. This technique requires an action to activate as well as an action to deactivate (the attack takes effect during both of these actions). This costs 2 points of magic and may be sustained for an additional 2 points of magic per turn. No other actions may be taken while this technique is being sustained. This ability may only be used in water.
    Sustained Flight (Active)
    Requirements: Rito
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 1
    This Rito may attempt to stay in the air as a move action by making a Physical Power check.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)20:59 No.15396844
    ---Weapon Techniques---
    Back Slice (Active)
    Requirements: |Acrobatics| 2, |Melee| 1
    XP Cost: 2
    Actions: 1
    You quickly tumble around your opponent to find a hole in his defense and strike. You may move to another space adjacent to the enemy and make an |Acrobatics|(Wisdom) check as an Attack action. Your target suffers a -1k1 penalty to his defense roll against this attack.

    Reaction Back Slice (Active)
    Requirement: Back Slice
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 1
    You can use a Single Action to prepare yourself for an incoming attack. The next time you are attacked, you can make an |Acrobatics|(Wisdom) check against the incoming attack. If you beat your attacker, you can immediately move to another space adjacent to the enemy and make an attack against him, and he suffers a -1k1 penalty to his defense roll.

    Counter Attack (Passive)
    Requirements: |Melee| 4, |Wisdom| 3
    XP Cost: 4
    Actions: 0
    Unopposed successes on Defense rolls now deal damage to attackers as if they were unopposed successes on an Attack roll.

    Dual Wield (Passive)
    Requirements: |Melee| 3, |Acrobatics| 1
    XP Cost: 4
    Actions: 0-2
    Two blades are better than one. While wielding two |Melee| weapons you get +1 to your dice pool for all Defense rolls against any attacker wielding only one weapon, as well as +1 to your dice pool for Attack rolls against targets wielding one weapon who do not have a shield. You may use both actions to attack without penalty (this is where I suggest a penalty for using both of your actions to attack in one turn), but doing so causes you to lose all dice pool bonuses granted by Dual Wield until the beginning of your next turn. Gerudo may learn this technique for half cost.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:00 No.15396849
    way I figured it would work is to make a melee stealth attack you would have to be hidden before your turn started (so you would have to have been hidden on your last turn) and you would have to be within movement range of your target and out of it's line of sight so you could move (stealth check) then attack in the same turn.
    >moving out in the open will obviously give you away
    I took this to mean "if you end your turn without cover"
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:00 No.15396851
    Low Blow (Active)
    Requirements: |Brawl| 2
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 1
    Deal an extra 1/2 damage to armored targets on a |Brawl|(Wisdom) action.

    Mortal Draw (Active)
    Requirements: |Melee| 4
    XP Cost: 4
    Special: Cannot have weapons drawn last turn.
    Actions: 1
    Draw weapon and attack as a Single Action, +2k1 attack, +1/4 Damage increment.

    Spin Attack (Active)
    Requirements: |Melee| 1
    XP Cost: 2
    Actions: 2
    After taking an action to prepare the Spin Attack the player may make a |Melee|(Power)[knockback] action striking all adjacent targets. Once an action has been taken to prepare the player may hold his action to perform the |Melee|(Power) portion of this technique at any time. Taking damage or performing any action other than moving at half movement interrupts this technique.

    Sneak Attack (Active)
    Requirements: |Melee| 2, |Stealth| 2
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: Free
    Special: You must be wielding a |Melee| weapon or a non-Explosive |Ranged| weapon.
    When you attack a creature you are hidden from, your attack uses Wisdom instead of its usual Virtue and does 2x damage. You also treat the weapon you are attacking with as having a Damage Increment of 3/4.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:02 No.15396863
    ---Shield Techniques---
    Shield Attack (Active)
    Requirements: |Melee| 1, |Shield| 2
    XP Cost: 2
    Actions: 1
    As a single action this person is able to thrust his shield forward striking an enemy. Make a |Shield| skill check as an attack with your shield. The damage increment is equal to the shield's reduction value.

    Shield Bash (Active)
    Requirements: Shield Attack
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 1
    As a single action this person may thrust his shield at his enemy with great force, throwing them off their guard. Make a |Shield| skill check as an attack against your target. If you beat your target's defense roll, you deal no damage but the target is stunned for 1 round.

    Shield Slam (Active)
    Requirements: Shield Attack
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 2
    As a double action this person may, from a static standing position, put all of his weight into his shield shield slamming it into an enemy and forcing them back. Make a |Shield| skill check against your target's defense. If you succeed you deal no damage but the target suffers Knockback 2 and is knocked prone.

    Shield Throw (Active)
    Requirements: Shield Attack
    XP Cost: 5
    Actions: 1
    This person may throw his shield as a Range 5 physical power attack.

    Guard and Attack (Active)
    Requirements: |Melee| 3, |Shield| 3
    XP Cost: 6
    Actions: Defense
    When you succeed on a |Shield| active defense roll, you can immediately make an attack against your attacker as a free action. A Hylian can purchase this technique for half cost.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:03 No.15396874
    >I didn't think automatic effects were where we wanted to go for Techiniques.

    Technically speaking, I think we were going to call passive/automatic effects Abilities, but it's really just a matter of semantics. They all work under the same prerequisites/XP cost system, so they were all listed under the same section of the wiki.

    So yeah, those should stay in.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:03 No.15396875
    ---Special Techniques---
    Flash Bomb Vanish (Active)
    Prerequisites: |Stealth| 3
    XP Cost: 4
    Actions: 1
    Special: Requires a Deku nut/Flash bomb
    You activate the flash bomb in your space and can immediately move your speed. You are automatically hidden for the entire movement and if you end your movement behind cover, you remain hidden. Shiekah can purchase this Technique for half cost.

    Brawler (Passive)
    Prerequisites: |Melee| 3
    XP Cost: 3
    Your unarmed attacks do 1/2H damage instead of 1/4H. In addition, you can use Power, Wisdom, or Courage as your virtue when making unarmed attacks.

    Charge Attack (Passive)
    Prerequisites: Melee 1 -or- Heavy 1
    XP Cost: 3
    Actions: 2 (modifies charge action)
    Rather than simply pushing your opponent, you use the momentum of your charge to press the attack.
    When making a charge, you may choose to replace the usual opposed Physical Power check with a melee attack roll. If your melee attack would normally use Wisdom, it uses Courage for this attack roll instead (though attacks that normally use Power or Courage are unchanged). Charge attacks made using a |heavy| weapon still require that you use an action to ready your weapon before using it again, just as a normal attack does.

    Feint (Active)
    Prerequisites: Melee 2, Sway or Stealth 1
    XP Cost: 2
    Actions: 1
    As a Single Action, you can attempt to throw your target off and leave them vulnerable to your next attack. Make an opposed Spiritual|Wisdom check against your target. If you win, your target cannot use their active defense against your next attack before the end of your next turn.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:07 No.15396906
    That's more or less what I was going for, yeah. I think I'll update the wiki with that specification (must begin your turn hidden and must make a successful stealth check as you move into attack range).
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:08 No.15396922

    These obviously need a lot of tweaks and standardizing, but there's the next step in developing the Techniques. I made most Racial techniques cost 3 so they are cheap, but not character generation cheap. Definitely open to criticism there. I added in Hylians for Guard and Attack, because Hylians had no racial techniques and it seemed appropriate.

    A big theme I think we should embrace is Techniques "trees", with a basic technique that others build off. This keeps individual technique costs low, while still requiring a considerable investment for advanced techniques. I did something like this with the presented shield techniques.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:14 No.15396966
    The only difference between Back Slice and Reaction Back Slice is that the latter is used to interrupt an opponents action, which shouldn't require it's own technique. Anybody should be able to to hold and action and attempt to interrupt someone else's action later in the round. Just get rid of Reaction Back Slice and add this to Back Slice:
    >If you hold an action and use Back Slice to interrupt an opponents attack, he loses his Active Defense and rolls Passive Defense instead.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:21 No.15397029
    That's how it was originally, but there was something about it that seemed off. Your wording is much better, though. I think we'll go with that.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:23 No.15397040
    Wait, would he get active defense normally? Can use take an action to defend and then make an attack and still get the active defense bonus? What if he isn't using active defense, which he probably isn't if he's attacking you. Hrm.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:23 No.15397043
    is |Perception| meant to be Mental or Spiritual? I would assume Mental, but I've seen a lot of "roll Spiritual Wisdom to oppose |Stealth|"
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:24 No.15397052
    >What if he isn't using active defense, which he probably isn't if he's attacking you.
    lol good point. just make it and additional -1k1 penalty instead then i guess?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:28 No.15397077
    Counter Attack probably needs either a technique prerequisite or a higher XP cost. Possibly both. That strikes me as a very powerful tech.

    |brawl| is no longer a skill, so any techs referencing it need to be changed to |melee| and restricted to specific weapons (unarmed, gauntlets, and claws I believe were what originally fell under the |brawl| skill).

    I think the Sneak Attack tech was intended to have the 3/4h damage increment only be applied to daggers and similar weapons (which I personally still don't like). If we are going to normalize damage increments for sneak attack (which I also don't think is a good idea), it should probably just be 1.5h rather than 3/4h and x2 damage.

    Brawler should absolutely be a 2 XP cost technique so that it's available at character creation -- otherwise it screws over anyone who wants to make an unarmed kung-fu style fighter.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:30 No.15397086
    Spiritual is the governing Attribute for perception. It's the Attribute of subtle forces, whether manipulating or noticing them.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)21:36 No.15397121
    All good points. We should include these.

    Yeah, should go with that, but I'll make it just part of Back Slice again. Should it have a higher XP Cost or prerequisites, then?

    My concern is that nobody will ever make a normal attack, relying entirely on Techniques after getting 1 or 2 of them. Should we put in a stipulation that you can only use an active technique once per combat or every other round or something?
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)21:37 No.15397135
    >Spin Attack (Active)
    >Requirements: |Melee| 1
    >XP Cost: 2
    >Actions: 2
    >After taking an action to prepare the Spin Attack the player may make a |Melee|(Power)[knockback] action striking all adjacent targets. Once an action has been taken to prepare the player may hold his action to perform the |Melee|(Power) portion of this technique at any time. Taking damage or performing any action other than moving at half movement interrupts this technique.

    Shouldn't the prereq be |Melee| 1 -or- |Heavy| 1?
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)21:40 No.15397150

    And then also use |Heavy| instead of |Melee| for further rolls if you're using a |Heavy| weapon, forgot that part
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:40 No.15397157
    good point
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/26/11(Sun)21:45 No.15397183

    Back Slice, Spin Attack and Mortal Draw look like they need revising. I did a version of the Spin Attack a few threads back, but I don't think any revisions have been proposed yet for the other two.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:46 No.15397195
    >>Spin Attack (Active)
    >Requirements: |Melee| 1 or |Heavy| 1
    >XP Cost: 2
    >Actions: 2
    >After taking an action to prepare the Spin Attack the player may make a |Melee|(Power)[knockback 1] action striking all adjacent targets. Once an action has been taken to prepare the player may hold his action to perform the |Melee|(Power) portion of this technique at any time. Taking damage or performing any action other than moving at half movement interrupts this technique. When using a |Heavy| weapon the attack roll becomes |Heavy|(Power)[knockback 2].

    How's that?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:50 No.15397221
    actually the |Melee| roll should be knockback 2 so it can still knock medium size enemies back and then make the |Heavy| roll knockback 3 so it can knock large enemies back
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:50 No.15397226
    Basic in the field techs:

    Air legs:
    Somehow you have a knack for navigating airspace. Whether it be a glider, aeroplane, catapult, canon, giant bird, or two slabs of fabric on your arms you are able to dive, use thermal currents, steer a launch trajectory, and readily maneuver in the air. It's a rare day to use this technique but having makes sure it's a good day!
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:52 No.15397247
    Reposting sample dungeon puzzle encounters.

    There are two sides of a bridge-like platform suspended from the roof. In order to reach the crank at the center, the party must split into two groups of equal weight and approach the crank from opposite sides. Once they reach the crank they can turn the bridge to point to two doors on the opposite two walls. The groups must then separate again and proceed up to the next floor to encounter different challenges. If there is more than one way the group can split up their weight evenly then they may have to return and reorganize into different groups if specific tools of two particular members are needed for a challenge up above.
    There is a large magnifying glass and around a large obstructing wall an angled mirror below a skylight through which the moon can be seen. Mirrored sarcophagi line the walls. When the players stand beneath the skylight or examine the mirror the lids of the sarcophagi open and large ReDead Knights step out carrying the mirrors as sheilds. The players must lure each one to a differnt spot and face a different direction before playing the sun's song so as to direct the light to the magnifying glass and light a funeral pyre to awaken the dungeon boss.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:53 No.15397258
    There is a Gerudo Temple room with six large female statues surrounding a central pit, each carrying an urn, and a massive male Gerudo statue holding a chalice on a pedestal in the center. The room is bowl shaped with six levels and stairs connecting each. On the lowest level is a small circular field of sand. Each statue has a switch at it's base. When a player strikes the switch the base the statue pours it's sand filled urn into the pit below along with four leevers and a lanmolas. Each switch hit causes the sand to rise higher and gives the creatures more mobility around the room as well as releasing more of them. When all six switches are pressed the central statue pours an endless spring of water from the chalice, turning the sand to quick sand and pulling all the remaining creatures into a drain beneath the revealed lowest level where chest waits. The chest holds an item that allows them to open the door and escape the room.
    The players run through a hallway where jets of flame ignite the whole passage, ducking periodically into side crevices and cover to shield themselves from the fire. At the end of the passage there is a ramp leading down and away from the hellish hallways of furnace exhaust.
    Before them, there is a chest protected by a barrier of flame. There are twenty torches in a circle around the room, each with a single keese sitting upon it. The torches are spread too far around to catch with a single spell (though multiple players with fireballs can do the trick) and there are too many to ignite by deku stick or lantern. Players must instead ignite the keese (which are actually just unlit fire keese) before fleeing the room. They can lure them into the flame jet of the hallway, or use other means that they possess. If the do so, the fire keese, which take no damage from fire, will settle back on their torches and light all of them at once, exposing the chest and the key it contains.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:53 No.15397262
    (For a party containing a Goron)
    There is a switch on one side of the room but it is rusted. Even the force of your party members pushing cannot depress it. However, there is a ramp on the other side of the room and a manually cranked lift to the top. It takes the efforts of two party members with a combined physical score of 5 to raise the lift. With proper speed and decent aim, a goron could roll and smash into the switch to activate it, opening the door.
    (for a Party containing a Zora)
    The party walks into a cylindrical room onto a suspended platform with two inactive beamos. Through a glass wall they can see several zora chained in another room submerged underwater. There is a pool of water far below the platform (with a ladder leading back up to the platform) and an underwater passageway that a player could enter. Once a player enters the passageway, bars rise blocking their retreat and the walls are raised to reveal a labyrinth behind a wall of glass. Only the players still on the platform can see it's full extent and must direct their ally through the maze to the chained zora. After a short time, several creatures, including carnivorous fish, like-likes, and spikes will begin moving through the labyrinth. The Beamos will also become active, though their eye beams are not aimed and their heads can be turned manually to attack creatures through the glass. Once the zora are free the three of them along with the swimming party members (or members) will be able to depress the switches throughout the labyrinth to escape.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:54 No.15397270
    The party walks into a grated room and hears a rumbling far below. There is cracked metal plate that seems like it will give way if the players use some explosives. As soon as any party member lights a bomb, a strong gust of wind comes from below and knocks any party member with less than 4 mass as well as any bombs (blowing out the fuse) upward into the air and through a tunnel until they strike a net and can climb off into the top of a tower. In the top of the sentry tower there is a set of very heavy pots, some rope and half woven nets, extra bombs, and a heavy crossbow. The pots have a mass of 8 and can be rolled with some effort by anyone with more than 2 physical. Using the pots, the player must assist the players down below either by sending down supplies or returning themselves (though dropping in the pot will cause them to take damage unless they are clever). The players may either use some rope or a net to tie down a bomb to the grated floor before shooting it with the crossbow or place the bomb inside the pot to protect it from the wind while lighting it. Once the fragile grate is destroyed a rope will be released that will be blown all the way up to the tower and can be climbed down against the wind and into the next room.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:55 No.15397279
    There is a room full of massive blocks (1 meter cubes) that can be pushed and pulled with the effort of two or more people. The players can see a Darknut with its back turned at the other end of the room guarding a door. The door is bound to his essence and will not open so long as he lives. This is intended to take place at a time when the players are not nearly ready to face a Darknut, but there is a solution. The players can move a lot quicker than the Darknut, which lacks ranged weapons, and they can rearrange the blocks to trap the Darknut and, ultimately, crush him as he is unable to push the blocks by himself. The players may need hints about this, so it may be wise to have them shove aside a block onto a switch in the previous room and reveal a blood splatter on the wall and some crushed bones.
    There are thousands of tiny hands (mini-floormasters) crawling around the room and a huge eye in the center. The hands are digging through piles of spare bones to rebuild Stalchildren and Stalfos Stalkers which immediately animate and begin walking around the room. When the eye spots the players it immediately directs the skeletons to attack and floats up to the roof to watch the battle. It then turns and directs several of the little hands to grab a magic item from the bone pile (such as a Fire Rod) and run around the room. If the little hands attack the players, instead of dealing damage they steal one unequipped item and begin to run around the room with it. Several of the hands continue to assemble more skeletons at a quickened pace. The players must choose which threat to focus their attention on or how to divide their attention (shooting the eye on the roof with the fire rod temporarily causes all of the hands to stop moving). Once all of the hands are dead, the eyeball falls and dissolves into nothingness.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)21:56 No.15397287
    >actually the |Melee| roll should be knockback 2 so it can still knock medium size enemies back and then make the |Heavy| roll knockback 3 so it can knock large enemies back

    Knockback 2 would knock large enemies back; read the paragraph on Mass Categories in the basic info section of the wiki.

    Also, I don't think the knockback should differ between light or heavy weapons anyway -- it's unneeded complexity. Absolute realism is not the goal in this system.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:02 No.15397345
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    Guys guys guys

    How viable would it be to choose to do a three heart run with this system?

    I'm 100% serious.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:06 No.15397384

    Maybe, but a player who wants to play a character with a large weapon wants to see some fantastic payout, like knocking around an enemy larger than themselves. It adds flavor just as much, if not moreso, than realism.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:06 No.15397392
    This is some good stuff! The Zora maze one seems like it would take some creativity to pull off in a pen-and-paper format, but it's definitely doable.

    The one thing that could stand to be adjusted is the requirements for moving things around. Physical is not simply a matter of strength, it also measures agility and resiliency. A character can have very high Physical, but still be pretty weak -- they might just be very nimble (Physical Wisdom). What you're looking for is Physical Power.
    But that's a small, relatively unimportant detail. You obviously have quite a knack for dungeon/puzzle design.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)22:06 No.15397393
    I agree with this.

    What's funny is most people will be starting with more than 3 hearts of health, since the starting health is Power +2.

    Alright guys, I'm gonna take off for a while. Glad to see the ball rolling again on the techniques.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:07 No.15397395

    Incredibly easy. Just never enter combat and let your party do all the work :D
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:08 No.15397405
    I'm with this anon.

    If you're swinging around a huge weapon you want to be sending enemies into the bleachers.

    So yeah, I'd think of it as more rule of cool than realism.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/26/11(Sun)22:08 No.15397413
    There will be items and possibly techniques to make you count as a larger size category for knockback effects, I assume.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:09 No.15397415
    I was going by this
    >Knockback X: Target is moved X squares away, minus 1 for every 3 Mass it has.
    and according to those mass categories the average Goron is medium. The whole reason Mass was added to the system was because Gorons should be harder to push around than other races.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:09 No.15397419
    Herp, didn't see that you weren't an anon. Bad habit.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:10 No.15397431
    I think they mean something along the lines of a full party three heart run?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:10 No.15397440
    They're already dishing out something like twice as much damage per hit as someone with a smaller weapon -- that should be payoff enough, right? And seeing as spin attack is geared more toward light weapons in the first place, I don't see any need to give it bonuses for heavy weapons -- after all, there will be a whole slew of techs specifically for the |heavy| skill.

    In fact, I recall a tech from one of the earlier threads that added knockback to heavy weapon attacks. There are a lot of techs that have been proposed that never made it out of their original thread; I think I'll go through and round those up after I wash up my dinner dishes here.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:11 No.15397444
    What exactly is the scale for knockback, then? Or do we have one yet?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:13 No.15397463
    Well, the knockback tag at least needs revised to fit the mass category system, I think. And I didn't realize Gorons were classed as medium, that just isn't right.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:14 No.15397468
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    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:17 No.15397488
    Technically I am, still, mostly anonymous. Doesn't matter anyway.


    Not really. Heavy can only attack once a round anyway and then has to recover, and Phys/Wis types get sneak attacks to bring it up anyway. Having it tied only to |Melee| means that a |Heavy| specialist can't play Spin the Giant Fucking Stick of Doom like how smaller weapons can. Just slap on a rull round wind-down recovery at the end of it. It requires some planning ahead, some investment, and makes sense.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:22 No.15397549

    Song of Embers
    Wood and flame heed your song.
    Double Action
    Level 2: One Burning object or creature within 10 spaces of you now burns half as fast/ takes half as much damage from the Burning.
    Level 3: Choose a source of fire within 10 spaces of you. Make a Music attack against each enemy adjacent to the fire source, dealing 1/4H (torch), 1/2H (campfire, brazier) or 3/4H (bonfire) of fire damage per success.

    Rider's Song
    This tune summons your faithful companion to your side.
    Double Action
    Level 1: (Overworld) You call your mount. If your mount cannot reach you, you will know.

    Kokiri's Song
    This bright song calls to mind fey creatures and mysterious forests.
    Double Action
    Level 1: This song is really catchy!

    Also, some Anon said this:
    >Because I just thought of a weird scenario where a PC dies but his ghost stays behind and someone plays the song of healing, thus giving the party a mask to become the now dead PC while said player re-rolls.
    I want this to be a thing. Am I the only one seeing the potential for some interesting (read: hilarious) resurrections here?
    >> Gurtyel 06/26/11(Sun)22:23 No.15397553
    Ill change the stealth entry to be an oppesed check against perception, is everyone ok with this?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:24 No.15397570
    go for it bro
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:24 No.15397579
    And then these are from the wiki.

    Sun's Song
    A powerful song that harnesses the sun itself.

    Double Action
    Effect 1- Change day to night or night to day. You and your companions alone are aware of the change; other people continue their schedules while you and your allies are "frozen" in time.
    Effect 2 - Make a Music/Courage attack against every undead creature within 10 spaces. On a hit, you Paralyze the creature for 2 rounds.

    [Split into two songs? One for the time effect (Song of Passing) and another for the attack?]

    Song of Healing
    This song soothes broken bones and broken souls equally well.

    Double Action
    Effect 1 - You and each ally within 10 spaces of you regains 5 hearts. (once per dungeon?)
    Effect 2 - (something about relieving spirits?)

    Command Melody
    A chilling refrain transplants your consciousness into a friend's body.

    Double Action
    You take control of a willing ally on their next turn. When they make a check, you can choose to use their Skill level or your own.
    While in control of an ally, you cannot take actions yourself and are helpless.

    Wind's Requiem
    The wind heeds your command, whipping through you to the direction you ask of it.

    Double Action
    You change the direction of the wind to one of the 8 directions.

    (moving in the direction of wind while gliding or using a sail could double your movement, and going against the wind could halve your movement.)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/26/11(Sun)22:27 No.15397604
    This is what I meant by a revision to the spin attack.

    Spin Attack 
    -Prerequisites: Melee 2
    -XP Cost: 3
    -Two Actions
    First Action: You charge your weapon and can move up to half your speed. 
    Second Action: Make a melee attack against each enemy within 1 space of you.

    And here are the other techs from the same post.

    Jump Attack
    -Prerequisites: Melee 2
    -XP Cost: 2
    -Double Action
    Move two spaces towards an enemy and make a melee attack. You deal 2x damage with each success from this attack.

    Magic Spin 
    -Prerequisites: Spin Attack, Melee 2, Power 3
    -XP Cost: 4
    -Free Action
    When charging your Spin Attack, you can choose to spend 2MP to increase the range of the attack by 1 and another 2MP to do 2x damage.

    Sword Beam
    -Prerequisite: Melee 5, Courage 4
    -XP Cost/requirement: 6
    -Single Action
    Make a melee attack against one enemy within 10 spaces of you. Your weapon deals Light damage.
    Special: You must be wielding a sword and be at full health.

    Great Spin
    -Prerequisites: Spin Attack, Magic Spin, Melee 6, Power 4, Courage 4, Wisdom 4
    -XP Cost: 8
    -Double Action(6MP)
    First Round: You spend this time charging up your attack. If you take damage between this turn and the beginning of your next turn, you lose the charge but do not lose any MP.
    Second Round: Move a number of spaces up to twice your movement and make a melee attack against each enemy within your weapon's reach. Your attack does 2x damage.
    You are now Dazed until the end of your next turn.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:34 No.15397666
    Dumbass is dumb and misread. I'll do what you actually asked for now.

    My god, I can only imagine the slaughter caused by the Great Spin. Its costs are ridiculous, which I agree with, but my god when it sees use that is going to be nuts.
    >> Gurtyel 06/26/11(Sun)22:39 No.15397711
    Well, i was about to edit the stealth skill, but i really dont know how an opposed check would work. I would get to roll a dice pool for stealth, and the enemy roll perception, and then what lol, how many succeses do i need to become hidden? can anyone clarify?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:41 No.15397737
    I would do Stat+Stealth vs. Perception Most successes wins, ties alerts opponents but doesn't reveal position.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:44 No.15397766

    >Linear comparison means that in the case of a contested roll (such as in combat) you compare your highest roll to your opponent's highest, your second highest to their second highest, and so forth. If one party in the contest has more kept dice than the opponent, the extra dice are automatic successes.

    So basically you roll for Stealth (X = Physical + Odd skill levels, Y = Wisdom + Even skill levels). This is your roll.
    Opponent rolls for Perception (X = Spiritual + Odd skill levels, Y = Wisdom + Even skill levels). This is the contesting roll.

    Whoever has more successes wins.

    That's how I'm understanding this anyway.
    >> Gurtyel 06/26/11(Sun)22:45 No.15397780

    Ok then, i leave it like that, also extra kept dice is atomatic succes like normal.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:45 No.15397782
    pretty much
    >ties alerts opponents but doesn't reveal position.
    I like this.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)22:49 No.15397821
    In the wiki, the weapon-related techs are all put together in one category called Weapon Techniques. There are a lot of different kinds of weapons, so as we go into different categories, this is going to get convoluted unless we split it. I'm suggesting categories be Melee Techniques, Heavy Techniques, and Ranged Techniques. Opinions?

    I'm gonna go back and put together a list of the ranged techs we came up with in the last two threads and throw it up here, maybe suggest some new ones.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)22:51 No.15397841
    I think you misunderstood my post (>>15397440) -- I didn't mean heavy-weapon users shouldn't be allowed to use spin attack, just that the spin attack tech shouldn't include extra goodies for heavy-weapon users as part of the technique itself. It should function the same no matter what weapon your using, and the special features of the heavy weapon can come from your |heavy| techs.
    >> Gurtyel 06/26/11(Sun)22:51 No.15397849

    What about, If you are trying to become hidden you need to win the check, if you tie you dont become hidden. If you are already hidden and roll to stay hidden then a tie wont unhide you. ok?
    >> |Ranged| techs Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)23:02 No.15397948
    First of all, are we treating crossbows like ranged Heavy weapons, as was suggested? Nobody ever commented on it. What this means is that it takes one action to ready it and another action to fire it.

    Fast Shot
    * Requirements: |Ranged| 2
    * Weapons: Crossbow
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    Ready a ranged weapon and make an attack with a single action.

    Dual Shot
    * Requirements: |Ranged| 2
    * Weapons: not Crossbow
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    Attack with a ranged weapon twice in one action.

    Stunning Shot
    * Requirements: |Ranged| 2
    * Weapons: Ranged Blunt (Boomerang, Rock, Improvised, etc)
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    Throw your weapon in such a way as to stun an opponent.
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)23:09 No.15398022

    Honestly I think we just need to have seperate techs, one for a Melee Spin and one for a Heavy Spin. The two will have to act different (wind-down, knockback, maybe a change in wind-up time if playtesting shows we need it) so that a Heavy user won't completely massacre everyone every time.


    You have to be unseen (LoS or Flash Bomb) to enter Stealth already. There shouldn't be a roll for that.


    How would being alerted affect the opponent? A stacking bonus to subsequent Perception checks is the only thing that makes sense to me. Probably +1k0 is enough.
    >> Gurtyel 06/26/11(Sun)23:12 No.15398070

    Are you saying there shouldnt be a roll to become hidden if you are out of LoS?, i didnt get your meaning.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:13 No.15398074
    >How would being alerted affect the opponent?
    they go from not knowing you're there to knowing that someone is there and they can start actively searching for you....
    >> Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)23:20 No.15398135

    In the middle of a combat scenario, if you drop into Stealth I doubt they're going to ignore everyone else just to look for you.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:30 No.15398219
    >First of all, are we treating crossbows like ranged Heavy weapons, as was suggested? ... What this means is that it takes one action to ready it and another action to fire it.
    Sounds good to me.

    >Honestly I think we just need to have seperate techs, one for a Melee Spin and one for a Heavy Spin. The two will have to act different (wind-down, knockback, maybe a change in wind-up time if playtesting shows we need it) so that a Heavy user won't completely massacre everyone every time.

    This also sounds good.
    I've finished compiling all the techniques proposed in previous threads (apart from those already posted here). Unfortunately, I really need to be getting to bed so I can be coherent at work tomorrow, so I don't have time to make any tweaks or modifications. I'll just paste the original proposals here, and let you guys have at it.
    There are also a lot of brainstorming seeds, mostly for race-specific techs, which I'll upload as a .txt to Mediafire and link here.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:32 No.15398232
    >Commence technique dump

    Darunia's Might
    Requirements: Heavy Rank 6
    XP Cost: ?
    You got what it takes to be as strong as any Goron. Kid, I like you. Lets be sworn brothers! Swinging a [Heavy] item in combat no longer requires using your second turn to recoil the swing.

    Prereq: Melee 2
    1 action
    You've mastered the art of using your weapon to deflect incoming blows.
    You may take an action to ready an active defense using your |melee| skill (possibly required to be Wisdom based?) when wielding an appropriate weapon.
    >Possible edit for balance: Subtract 1 rolled die for parry defense using the basic Parry tech, and make an Improved Parry tech that negates this subtraction.

    Prereq: Melee 4, Parry
    Free action
    You've learned to use your parries to open gaps in your enemy's defenses, and exploit those gaps with lightning speed.
    When using a Parry defense, you may choose to subtract one {additional} die from your rolled pool. If you do, deal damage to the opponent for each success on that Parry defense roll, just as you would if you were attacking.

    >This one's probably made irrelevant with the Counterattack tech above, but I'll post it here anyway
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:33 No.15398234
    Lunging Strike
    Prereq: Melee 1 -or- Heavy 1
    1 action
    You can extend your reach with a close-combat weapon at the risk of putting yourself off-balance.
    This technique allows you to make a normal melee attack with a |melee| or |heavy| weapon with an additional meter added to the range of that attack. Subtract 1 die from your rolled pool for all defense rolls (whether passive or active) until your next turn.

    Prereq: Melee 3, Lunging Strike
    1 action
    You can follow up on a lunge, closing the distance and regaining your balance while getting in an extra hit.
    In order to use this technique, you must use the Lunging Strike technique immediately beforehand, and there must be an empty space between you and your opponent. When you use this technique, you move 1 meter toward the opponent you attacked with the Lunging Strike and make another attack against that opponent at a -1 penalty to your rolled pool. Use of this technique also negates the defense roll penalty from Lunging Strike.

    Prereq: Heavy 5
    2 actions (delivery) + 1 action (recovery)
    Striking the ground a mighty blow, you create a shockwave that knocks enemies off their feet.
    You must be standing on a solid surface and wielding a |heavy| weapon to use this technique. Use of this technique requires you to use an action to ready your weapon again, just as if you'd attacked with that weapon.
    All ground-bound creatures within 1 meter of you are stunned and knocked prone, and all ground-bound creatures within 3 meters are stunned.

    GET OVER HERE! (Passive Combat [It should be "Combat, Passive" under the current system, but Mortal Kombat reference.])
    -Requirements: |Tool| 3, Physical 3.
    -XP Cost: ?
    -Actions: 0.
    +3 Force when using Pull items (Hookshots, etc.) to draw enemies nearer.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:33 No.15398237
    Heavy Blow
    Prereq: Heavy 2
    Passive (combat)
    Your attacks hit with greater force.
    Attacks you make with |heavy| weapons gain Knockback 1. If the attack already has a Knockback rating, that rating improves by 1.

    Staggering Blow
    Prereq: Heavy 3, Heavy Blow
    2 actions (delivery) + 1 action (recovery)
    You can deliver an attack with staggering force.
    You must use a |heavy| weapon to deliver this technique. This technique allows you to make a melee attack with the Staggering quality. You must still use an action to ready your weapon after using this technique, just as you would if you had attacked normally.

    Rubble Spray
    Prereq: Heavy 2
    1 action (delivery) + 1 action (recovery); MP consuming
    You strike the ground with tremendous force, kicking up a shower of rock fragments.
    You must be standing on a hard, rocklike surface and wielding a |heavy| weapon to use this technique. Use of this technique requires you to use an action to ready your weapon again, just as if you'd attacked with that weapon.
    Treat this technique as a |heavy| attack with a damage increment of 3/4H affecting all creatures in a 5 m line beginning directly in front of you. Make a single attack roll, with each creature in the area of effect rolling defense separately.

    Hail of Arrows
    Prereq: Ranged 5
    2 actions
    You can unleash a barrage of missiles to strike multiple foes.
    This technique allows you to use a bow or slingshot to make an attack with AoE 1, centered on a space within 1/2 your weapon's maximum range. Make a single |ranged| attack roll, with each target in the area of effect rolling defense separately. If a target occupies multiple squares in the area of effect, it makes a single defensive roll but any damage it takes from the attack is multiplied by the number of squares it occupies. This action consumes 10 units of ammunition.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:34 No.15398242
    Penetrating Shot
    Prereq: Ranged 3
    1 action
    Your ranged attacks can pass through your target to strike enemies behind it.
    When you attack a target with a |ranged| weapon with the Piercing descriptor, you may choose to make a secondary attack on another target behind the first one. You and both targets must all fall along a single straight line, and the distance between the first and second targets can't exceed 1/2 your weapon's remaining range. For instance, if you attacked a target 30 m away using a bow with a 100 m range, the second target must be within 35 m of the first target. The secondary attack is made at a -1 penalty to your rolled dice total, with an additional -1 for each point of armor rating the primary target has.

    Prereq: Tool 2
    1 action
    You can use a hookshot or similar tool to yank enemies off their feet.
    To use this technique, you must be using a hookshot, clawshot, or similar tool with the Grip descriptor, and the target must be within this item's range. Roll an unopposed |tool| skill check with a success threshold of 4, then add your Mass to the number of successes rolled on this check. If this sum is greater than or equal to your target's Mass, the target is knocked prone.

    Natural Rider
    Requirements: Spiritual 3, Courage 3
    XP Cost: (low ?)
    You can control your mount's actions without making checks.

    Shadow veil
    * Requirements: Sheikah
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    * MP Cost: 2
    This allows the sheikah to surround himself with cloaking shadows making him invisible until he attacks or until damaged, he may not turn invisible the next turn he losses this effect.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:35 No.15398248
    >Here's the last of them

    Assassin's Training
    -Prerequisites: 2 |Melee|, 2 Wisdom
    -XP cost: Low
    Passive Technique
    -Wisdom-based Melee weapons do +1/4H more damage.

    Self-Sacrifice (needs a better name)
    XP Cost: medium-high
    Prerequisites: Acrobatics (4 or 5?)
    Free Action (or an interrupting action)
    -When an ally within a number of spaces equal to half your speed is targeted by an attack, you can immediately move half your speed into your ally's space, push them 1 space, and force the enemy to roll the attack against you.

    Charge Spell(Active)
    -Requirements: 2 |Magic| OR 4 Mental
    -XP Cost: 4XP
    -Actions: 1
    The next spell you do gains an additional 1/4H to it's Damage Increment and an additional 1MP to its Cost. After using Charge Spell, your next action must be either using Charge Spell again or using a spell.

    >Cost: 2 XP
    >No prerequisite
    >Your studies have yielded knowledge above and beyond what is commonly known.
    >When you learn this technique, choose a subject, such as "History" or "Religion". You gain a +1k1 bonus to Mental >Wisdom rolls made to recall stories and facts related to your subject of choice.
    >This technique may be taken multiple times. Each time you take it, you may apply the bonus to a new subject, or to a subject you have already studied. The bonuses from this technique are cumulative -- for example, if you take Lore (History) twice, you gain +2k2 to checks made to recall historical information.

    >And the brainstorming list:
    >> |Ranged| techs Riteblade 06/26/11(Sun)23:40 No.15398279

    Richochet Shot
    * Requirements: |Ranged| 4
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    You aim your weapon so that it richochets off a surface to shoot targets out of Line of Sight. Tightest possible angle is 45 degrees.

    Curved Shot
    * Requirements: |Ranged| 3, Magic 2, Spiritual 3 (2 if target was sighted within the last 2 rounds)
    * MP Cost: 3?
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    You shoot or throw one direction and then telekinetically redirect the shot toward where you want it to land.

    Explosive Shot
    * Requirements: |Ranged| 2, Magic 3 -or- Explosive Ammunition
    * MP Cost: 5?
    * XP Cost: ?
    * Actions: 1
    You make a shot rigged with either a physical or magic explosive charge that explodes for bomb damage after the shot lands
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:43 No.15398295
    Thanks for the info dump. On a different note, anyone got that 30+ panel long picture that depicts the storyline of Windwaker?
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:45 No.15398311
    >are we treating crossbows like ranged Heavy weapons, as was suggested? What this means is that it takes one action to ready it and another action to fire it.
    I was going to say no, but adding the Heavy to the weapon qualities might allow for excluding certain ranged weapons from unfeasible techniques.
    However, the problem then is that the Heavy quality assumes you need to "recover" AFTER the attack rather than before like you would with the Crossbow. Changing the order then messes with Heavy melee weapons. Perhaps we could change it so that it reads something like:
    >Heavy weapons require two actions to use

    That way the recovery/loading time is included in the action cost, the versatility of the quality is increased, and it saves us some words since I doubt anyone will NOT take an action to "recover" since your options are greatly limited by not doing so.
    >> Anonymous 06/26/11(Sun)23:58 No.15398395
    Or, rather than actually classifying crossbows as "heavy" per se, we just say it takes an action to load. I'm pretty sure that's more the point we're getting at -- make crossbows cost two actions, in some form or fashion. It certainly shouldn't be classed under the |heavy| skill (that would be silly), and that's what defines "heavy" weapons anyway.

    Also, the whole point of having recovery as a separate action was because of the flexibility. An example given when it was originally proposed was leaving your huge axe embedded in the ground to punch your opponent in the face with your second action.
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)00:03 No.15398430
    Yeah that sounds good. Maybe a line in under Crossbows in the Weapons section that says:
    >Crossbows require an action to load before an action of firing. The actions of loading and firing do not need to be consecutive.

    And then up the damage to 3/4 heart to compensate. So basically the crossbow will do more damage overall to armored targets (which it was invented to do, wasn't it? I'm not strong in history) and less overall to small-time minions. Basically it's an armor-piercing ranged weapon, like how Heavy weapons are for melee. And the stipulation for AN action of loading for AN action of firing allows it to have Double Shot capabilities. Also I guess we can get rid of Fast Shot.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)00:05 No.15398447
    Maybe the property should be called Recover, Reload or Delay instead of Heavy? That way Crossbows wouldn't be confused with heavy weapons.

    Also, crossbow damage would need to get bumped up to 3/4H. It's still ranged, so it wouldn't need to be quite as strong as a Heavy melée weapon (which puts the wielder in much more danger?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)00:07 No.15398450
    Maybe the property should be called Recover, Reload or Delay instead of Heavy? That way Crossbows wouldn't be confused with heavy weapons.

    Also, crossbow damage would need to get bumped up to 3/4H. It's still ranged, so it wouldn't need to be quite as strong as a Heavy melée weapon (which puts the wielder in much more danger)
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)00:15 No.15398509
    Wow, I never get to ninja anyone else.

    I'm gonna separate the Weapons techs in the wiki, as well as add the techs from that last dump, if that sparkles with all the girls.

    One thing though,
    >Heavy Blow
    >Prereq: Heavy 2
    >Passive (combat)
    >Attacks you make with |heavy| weapons gain Knockback 1. If the attack already has a Knockback rating, that rating improves by 1.

    I think we need to make this a choice. *Always* having knockback can end up being a huge pain in the ass. Maybe more like
    >You may add Knockback +1 to your |Heavy| attacks.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)00:22 No.15398556
    I already changed "Weapon Techniques" to "Melee Techniques" and added "Heavy Techniques" and "Ranged Techniques" headers
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)00:25 No.15398578
    just make it
    >Heavy Blow
    >Prereq: Heavy 2
    >Passive (combat)
    >Any |Heavy| attacks you make that have knockback have their knockback rating increased by 1.
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)00:38 No.15398652

    That sounds a lot more reasonable.

    Adding the techs to the wiki now.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)00:40 No.15398671
    >Adding the techs to the wiki now.
    thank you
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)00:41 No.15398676
    Probably "Reload" if we're to use one of those.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)00:43 No.15398695
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    Well, a theory, anyway.
    TP had you acquisition multiple bomb bags, which could each carry a set number of one type of bomb at a time. Would multiple bomb bags be feasible? Every time I imagine it I just get thie really funny mental image of this little Kokiri completely obscured by a load of explosives he's carrying.
    Hey, I wonder, could anybody draw that?
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)00:54 No.15398743
    It's Zelda, as long as it is not Bombs, ammunition, or money and the like, you can carry as much as you want.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)00:58 No.15398764
    I think the whole point of multiple bomb bags was to be able to alternate between water bombs and regular bombs. In this system, you can probably store both bombs in one bag, but you'd have to sort how many of each you wanted to buy.

    Would Bombchus/Bomblings need their own bag too? And bomb arrows shouldn't be combinable right off the bat, though a technique could allow someone to make them from a bomb and an arrow, instead of buying them from a shop.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)00:59 No.15398772
    This is what I was thinking. Hell, even Phantom Hourglass had separate bags for bombs and Bombchus.
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)01:01 No.15398786
    Having trouble with the description for Pentrating Shot.

    >Penetrating Shot (Active)
    >* Requirements: |Ranged| 2
    >* Weapons: "Piercing" Ranged
    >* XP Cost: ?
    >* Actions: 1
    >Fire a shot that shoots through your first target into a second. The second target must be within your max range. You and both targets must all be within a straight line. Apply the same attack roll for both targets. The attack on the secondary target has a -1k0 penalty to the roll against the secondary target, minus an additional -0k1 for every 1/2 heart negation from armor on the primary target.

    Does this sound clear, and it is it properly balanced in your gents' opinions? The original description had "points of armor rating" which I guess we did away with.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)01:02 No.15398793
    Derp, completely missed the question.

    Considering the presence of other partyembers, I think there's no reason a player can't carry all the bomb bags a party owns. It doesn't really help them in any way, since they can only light one bomb at a time, but they could do it.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)01:05 No.15398818
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    There are bomb bag capacities though. Which can make for some good prizes later down the road. Getting bigger quivers, bomb bags, wallets and the like.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)01:15 No.15398887
    This drawing is still the greatest thing.

    It's late, I can't edit techs and I'm still awake. Drawfag requests, anyone?
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)01:16 No.15398900
    The Kokiri carrying approximately 1.3 metric tons of explosive material? If you're not up for it, any artwork of the Twili would be nice to see.
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)01:29 No.15398958

    >Prereq: Tool 2
    >1 action
    >You can use a hookshot or similar tool to yank enemies off their feet.
    >To use this technique, you must be using a hookshot, clawshot, or similar tool with the Grip descriptor, and the target must be within this item's range. Roll an unopposed |tool| skill check with a success threshold of 4, then add your Mass to the number of successes rolled on this check. If this sum is greater than or equal to your target's Mass, the target is knocked prone.

    Hrm. I suggest:

    >* Requirements: Power of 1/2 the target's mass
    >* Weapons: "Grip" ranged

    >* Actions: 1
    >Fire at the the feet of a target to attempt to knock them prone. Use a normal |Ranged| attack roll opposed to their Physical/Courage roll.

    How bout a Twili (Male or Female, your choice) rising out of the ground behind a Human opponent after a Shadow Step, swinging a Great Axe/Sword (your choice) upward? Bonus points for RAGEFACE on the Twili
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)01:30 No.15398966
    Hahahah fuck yes

    Looks like there's a consensus, TCN
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)01:31 No.15398982
    >Penetrating Shot (Active)
    >* Requirements: |Ranged| 2
    >* XP Cost: ?
    >* Actions: 1
    >* Special: Must use Arrows as ammunition.
    >Fire a piercing shot that hits two targets. You and both targets must be in a straight line. Make one attack roll and compare it to both targets. You suffer a -0k1 penalty against the 2nd target for every 1/2 heart of reduction possessed by the 1st target.

    >The attack on the secondary target has a -1k0 penalty to the roll against the secondary target
    This line was useless since you only make one attack roll.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/27/11(Mon)01:33 No.15398992
    M'kay, so there's a few things being tossed around in descriptions that I don't think are detailed. We need a list of common conditions and their exact effects. Things like Dazed, Stun, Prone, etc. should be written up and standardized so we know exactly what effect a techniques will have when defining them. After that, we need a comprehensive list of the techniques, categorized by type, that we can edit and refine into a playtest-ready form.

    Any volunteers? My week is about to start, and summer school is a bitch, but I'll try to work on something when I get a chance.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)01:41 No.15399056
    Stunned: lose one action
    Dazed: lose two actions
    Paralyzed: lose all actions and become Helpless
    Helpless: All your rolls are treated as 1's
    Prone: can't walk, cam crawl at half speed, -1k0 to attacks and defense from melée attacks, +1k0 to defense from ranged attacks.
    >There should be a tech that gives crossbow users some benefit to firing while prone.

    Burning: take 1/4H fire damage at the start of your turn. (?)

    I'd draw a twili, but I have no idea what they should look like.
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)01:48 No.15399099
    You're right. What about:
    >Fire a piercing shot that hits two targets. You and both targets must be in a straight line. Make one attack roll and compare it to both targets. You suffer a -1 penalty against the second target, plus another -1 for every 1/2 heart of reduction possessed by the first target.

    Already on it. I'll get to the Status list when I'm done with throwing the techniques in the wiki. I've got all night.
    >> Explorator Helstrom !!J+PKqcokqS/ 06/27/11(Mon)01:50 No.15399110
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    For the sake of convenience I've created a writable PDF version of the current character sheet design. I figure it might prove useful whenever play test time rolls around. It's not too elegant as far as HP and Magic go since they're only intended to display maximums, but I did what I could.

    Let me know what you think!
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)01:55 No.15399134
    Or maybe you will beat me to it. I think Dazed and Stunned should be swapped though.

    If you search Twili on DevART and Google, it's suprising how many actually relevant pics you get before you get to stuff from the Twilight series. Basically, they're (very) Dark Elves with very robust natural hair colors. Their eyes make me think of the elves from Pathfinder. It seems like they have markings on their bodies that go between off-black and off-white.
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)02:31 No.15399319
    Going to make a new section for |Brawl| techs, unless anyone has a reason there shouldn't be. Which brings up the point that we need some |Brawl| techs for unarmed characters and dedicated hand-to-hand fighters.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)02:32 No.15399331
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    all of the Twili you see in the game except for Midna and Zant look pretty much like this but in varying shapes and sizes. They all have red eyes and orange hair, including Midna and Zant.
    >> Just Another Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)02:34 No.15399338
    The theory is the short ones are juveniles, and that they acquire that tall, stretched appearance when they age.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)02:36 No.15399353
    There's no Brawl skill though.

    Also I can't draw Twili, but here's a dodongo.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)02:37 No.15399359
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)02:48 No.15399423
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    This pic is for both of you.


    So how are we handling unarmed characters?

    And in the Melee Techs section in the wiki there is this:
    >Mortal Draw (Active)
    > * Requirements: |Melee| 4
    > * XP Cost: ?
    > * Special: Cannot have weapons drawn last turn.
    > * Actions: 1
    >Draw weapon and attack as a single action(+2k0 attack, +1/4 Damage increment, +1 Force).

    What's Force, and if that doesn't exist anymore, what was it supposed to do?
    >> Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)02:54 No.15399461
    Nevermind, just saw the Brawler tech.

    I don't think it allows for an interesting hand-to-hand playstyle though. Or is there something I'm missing here?
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)02:57 No.15399483
    >What's Force
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)03:02 No.15399508
    >Or is there something I'm missing here
    maybe the fact that unarmed combat is covered by the |Melee| skill
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)03:04 No.15399518
    Here's some rough mount ideas, not including rolls just yet since I'm not sure how the would scale.

    Life: 6, Mass: 6, Speed: 14
    (Kick: 1/2H)

    Life: 6, Mass: 8, Speed: 12
    (Gore: 3/4H)

    Cuccowary (Original mount do not steal- an ostrich-like bird)
    Life: 5, Mass 4, Speed 14
    (Kick: 3/4H)

    Skyloft Bird (tenative, this should wait for the supplement.)
    Life: 5, Mass: 5, Speed: 8, Fly 14

    Sky Bear
    Life: 6, Mass: 6, Speed: 8, Hover 8
    (Pound: double action, area 1, 3/4H)

    Life: 6, Mass: 5, Speed:10, Jump 8
    (Punch: 1/2H)

    River Dodongo
    Life: 6, Mass: 6, Speed 8, Swim 8
    (Bite: 1/2H, Swallow)

    Your mass cannot be higher than that of your mount.
    You subtract your mass from your mount's speed. So a typical human (mass 4) riding a horse would cause the horse to have a speed of 10.

    Maybe it should use half their mass instead (and give mounts lower base speeds), so multiple riders work better.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)03:07 No.15399537
    >Stunning Throw (Active)

    > Requirements: |Ranged| 2
    > Weapons: Thrown / Boomerang
    > XP Cost: ?
    > Actions: 1

    >Throw your weapon in such a way as to stun an opponent for one round.

    Boomerangs already have the stun tag
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)03:15 No.15399581
    >Maybe it should use half their mass instead (and give mounts lower base speeds), so multiple riders work better.
    Or you could add a riding capacity and subtract from the mount's speed the mass of the largest person + X per additional rider. It leaves room for, say, 4 lard-ass Gorons riding a Dodongo, but I like to think that those are precious moments worth allowing for.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)03:40 No.15399747
    >Song of Healing
    >This song soothes broken bones and broken souls equally well.
    >Double Action
    >Effect 1 - You and each ally within 10 spaces of you regains 5 hearts. (once per dungeon?)
    >Effect 2 - (something about relieving spirits?)
    Effect 2 should be like turn undead, a willing undead will banish instantly, an unwilling should be at 2 or less hearts, or something like that.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)03:47 No.15399793
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    >They all have red eyes and orange hair
    Speaking of which, I think the contrast looks better than the gray hair on gray face of our current Twili illustration
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)04:19 No.15399953
    It would be nice to have a wider variety of techniques available to unarmed combatants, to allow for a variety of unarmed playstyles. There are a few in place already that allow for a goron heavy-hitter which is great, but we should still add a few more to allow for more options in unarmed combat.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)04:27 No.15399977

    I'll fix it once I get some sleep.
    >> Magic Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)04:37 No.15400003
    Finished doing up the Techniques in the wiki. Suggestions have stopped, and we have a decent-sized list, so we can probably cross off the first goal in >>15396643 for now. To start us back on Magic, I'm gonna dump what we have in the txt from >>15396700 and stuff from the wiki that isn't in the txt.

    Armor (Wisdom)
    Your clothes shimmer with protective energy as your enemy's blows are magically absorbed.
    Cost: 2 MP per round
    Range: 0 or 5
    Effect: The target recieves damage reduction of 1/2 heart until caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power. The damage reduction does not stack with armor.

    Reflect (Wisdom)
    A wave passes through the air and surrounds the sheild, which now glistens and shines like polished silver.
    -Cost: 2 MP per round
    -Range: 0 or 5
    -Requirement: The target must be holding a shield.
    -Effect: The target's shield gains the Reflective property until the caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power.

    Fire (Power)
    A bolt of fire roars as it soars past.
    -Cost 2MP
    -Range: 10
    -Success: 1/2H fire damage.
    >> I CAST MAGIC MISSILE AT THE DARKNESS Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)04:41 No.15400021
    see >>15399508

    Ice (Wisdom)
    A beam of ice sails through the air.
    -Cost: 2MP
    -Range 10
    -Success: 1/4H Ice damage, and the target's movement is reduced by 1 until the beginning of the caster's turn.

    Fairy Form (Courage)
    With a word, your body explodes into a cloud of glittering dust, revealing a tiny, flying figure when it clears.
    -Cost: 2MP per round
    -Range: 0 or 1
    -Effect: You or the target Shrinks and gains a fly speed of 6, until the caster ends the effect or runs out of Magic Power.

    Shrinking probably needs it's own description.

    When shrunk,
    -Your mass is 0
    -Your Movement is half it's normal value.
    -You cannot deal damage to normal-sized creatures.
    -You recieve double damage from normal-sized creatures.
    -You can fit through grates, holes, and other small openings.
    -You get a (+2?) bonus to Stealth towards normal-sized creatures.
    >> Items, but magic! Riteblade 06/27/11(Mon)04:45 No.15400030
    This one I think brings up a good point about maybe enhancing physical weapons with magic.

    Elemental Arrow (Power)
    An arrow is charged with elemental energy before it is fired.
    Cost: 2MP (tentative)
    Range: Same as arrow
    Requirements: Target must be firing an arrow
    Success: The effect of a standard Fire or Ice spell (caster's choice) is stacked onto the arrow's damage.

    Light Arrow (Power)
    An arrow is imbued with holy power before being fired.
    Cost: 4MP (tentative, but remains proportionate to the Elemental Arrow, above)
    Range: Same as arrow
    Requirements: Target must be firing an arrow
    Success: An additional 1/2H of Light damage is stacked onto the arrow.

    What do you guys think? I'm thinking the Light Arrow could be more powerful.

    And then we have all the goodie items that I'm not going to take up several posts doing:
    Din's Fire
    Farore's Wind
    Nayru's Love
    Magic Cape
    Cane of Byrna
    Cane of Somaria
    Fire Rod
    Ice Rod
    Ether Medallion
    Quake Medallion
    Bombos Medallion
    >> bot27 06/27/11(Mon)05:09 No.15400115
    Im putting together a campaign using this ruleset, and all my players are currently reading the wiki as a ruleset (knowing we're performing a very early playtest) but I was wondering why the wiki hasn't been updated with the info in this thread yet?
    it all seems well fleshed, and just overall wonderful
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/27/11(Mon)05:13 No.15400131
    Usually stuff isn't added to the wiki until the thread is archived, but that could probably change. Things are developing fast, so if you want to be as up-to-date as possible you gotta keep up with the threads.

    Also, a lot of the material presented is for critique and suggestion, at least initially.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)09:03 No.15401353
    Just noticed something in the wiki:

    Does anyone else see anything wrong with this loot generator?

    >Roll 2D6
    >02-04 : Nothing
    >5-10 : Rupees (Green -> Orange incl. Rupoor)
    >11 : Arrows/Bombs/Pellets
    >12-13 : Seeds
    >14 : Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn
    >15-16 : Regeneration Items
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)09:11 No.15401395
    This completely defeats the purpose of the Heavy Blow technique -- it's supposed to add knockback to attacks that don't normally have it, and increase knockback for attacks that do.

    It should be optional, though.

    Points of armor rating originally corresponded to 1/4 hearts, not 1/2 hearts.
    >> Gurtyel 06/27/11(Mon)11:03 No.15401867

    Yes i do, max value you can get when rolling 2d6 is 12 not 16.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)11:08 No.15401897
    So I'm genning up a character and was wondering some things:
    >How many Arrows do you start with? I'd go with 20, but that might be too much.
    >We're currently going with starting equipment being three items/spells/whatever, right?

    Oh, and to reiterate something I said in an earlier thread:
    >What happens when you reach zero hearts? Do you die? If so, that might be a bit harsh. Perhaps we could have it like in Final Fantasy, where the party survives as long as one member does?
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)11:10 No.15401908
    rolled 5 = 5

    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)11:19 No.15401965
    I think this needs an update, since it hass too many items in it right now. Mystical Seeds, Pieces of Power and maybe bombs seem like they should be rarer. And there's no way you should get an orange rupee by killing a typical enemy.

    I also want to post vehicle ideas, but I know we've got techniques and spells to work on now.
    Are they on the wiki yet?

    1 and 2- no drops
    3-Rupees (By Threat Level)
    4-Ammunition (bullets, arrows)
    6-Magic Jar

    This list is just for killing an enemy. It's not perfect and needs a lot of work, but I thought I should throw it out.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)11:21 No.15401981
    That makes sense. Otherwise we could go full-on MMORPG made and give each enemy a drop table.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)12:13 No.15402316
    >How many Arrows do you start with? I'd go with 20, but that might be too much.
    20 units of ammunition sounds good if you start with a bow or other ranged weapon.re currently going with starting equipment being three items/spells/whatever, right?
    Right, though we do need to come up with a list of what items and such are appropriate for a starting character.

    >What happens when you reach zero hearts? Do you die? If so, that might be a bit harsh. Perhaps we could have it like in Final Fantasy, where the party survives as long as one member does?
    This sounds fair to me. When you hit 0 hearts, you're not exactly dead, just unconscious. Monsters will almost always ignore a downed enemy to focus on more pressing threats. If everyone is incapacitated, though, the monsters will finish you off. A fairy can restore a downed character, but it takes more attention than your teammates can spare in battle to bring you back with a potion or similar item. As long as one party member survives the fight, they can take a handful of rounds to nurse the rest back to consciousness (1 heart) afterward.
    Since we're going to include healing magic, should any healing spell revive a downed character, or should that require a specific spell? Maybe limit the more basic healing spells to only working on allies who were downed within the last turn (or possibly longer if you have a higher |magic| skill)?
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)12:31 No.15402428
    >Maybe limit the more basic healing spells to only working on allies who were downed within the last turn (or possibly longer if you have a higher |magic| skill)?
    Maybe limit it to allies downed during the last X turns, where X is you're |Magic| rank?

    Oh, and magma/water should have a countdown until you die, I suppose.
    And giant pits should either trap them far, far below or have Floormasters that dump them back above or something.

    >Starting equipment: (taking stats from the wiki)
    -Armor (Light/Medium, up to 1/2H, or according to GM)
    -|Melee| Weapon(up to 1/2H)
    -|Ranged| Weapon, 20 ammo included
    -|Heavy| Weapon (up to 1+1/2H)
    >We need weaker |Heavy| weapons. Something around 1H damage would fit, and does roundabout the same damage as a sword.
    -Magic Spells (list of starting spells here) (includes a tome, rope or other enchanted item (1/4H, |Melee| Phys Wis)
    >That item does the same damage as your fists, but with Wisdom (and works with tomes as they are on the wiki).
    -Songs (list of starting songs)(includes an instrument)
    -Miscellaneous items (non-magical, with GM approval)

    Additionally, players start with X days of food, a magic, bottomless haversack, clothes and X rupees.

    Also magic items need Rupee costs since PCs WILL try to sell duplicates/less useful stuff.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)12:33 No.15402446
    In that same vein, how do we handle players who get hit with stuff that usually just blacks you out in the games?

    We mentioned Pitmasters earlier, but what about being crushed? Eaten? Impaled? Drowned? All those grisly things that make you start the room over. It would be really immersion-breaking for you to start again with a just a heart down.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)12:35 No.15402465
    Someone in one of the first threads proposed a Pitmaster. It lives on the terror of those that fall down, and brings them back to the top in case they would fall down again.
    I really love the concept, to be honest.

    >are roulled
    Creepy Captcha is creepy.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)12:57 No.15402634
    I hate to introduce new features so late, but I thought this mechanic would provide a lot of potential for techniques and monster fights.

    Interrupting Action
    On your turn, you can hold one or both of your actions to perform them later in the round, even between another creature's actions. As a drawback, you lose the same number of actions you held on your next turn. (trading 2 actions for 1 interrupting action)

    For instance, a player is fighting a dodongo. She primes a bomb with one action and holds her second action, doing nothing else on her turn. 
    On the dodongo's turn, it opens it's mouth to charge its fire breath as one action. The player chooses now to take her held action (between the dodongo's actions) and rolls the bomb into the monsters mouth, destroying it.
    On her next turn, the player has only one action to take.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)13:04 No.15402692
    Makes sense. It makes it easier to make boss battles as well, so that's all good.

    Also, (mini)boss battle scenario:
    >Party enters a big room with a table at the center
    >Sitting at the further end of the table is a huge skeleton with fancy clothes on
    >It doesn't move
    >On closer inspection, it has a big knife stuck in it's back
    >When the knife is touched, the skeleton screams and starts fighting the players
    >The players need to hit the knife to damage it
    It might be a bit simplistic, but it serves it's purpose. I don't know what the knife is, though. Maybe it's just a big, knife-shaped key of +5 against Stalfos.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)13:40 No.15402983
    Double subversion: the party kills the Stalfos and the knife starts flying around and attacking them; turns out it was possessing the skeleton. Once they beat on it enough the spirit departs and they can use the cool knife themselves.

    Also, here's a take on redoing the Back Slice and Mortal Draw

    Mortal Draw
    -Prerequisites: Quick Draw, Sneak Attack, Melee 5, Wisdom 4
    -XP Cost: 6
    -Double Action
    Requirement: you must have your weapon sheathed.
    You make a melee attack against an adjacent enemy that deals 3x damage. This attack targets Passive Defense (or is treated like a sneak attack in terms of accuracy?)

    Back Slice
    Prerequisites: Melee 4, Dodge 3
    -XP Cost: 4
    -Interrupting Action
    Requirement: you must have a held action ready and be Actively Defending with Dodge this round.
    When an enemy misses you with a melee attack, you move up to half your speed around the enemy and make a melee attack against it's flank.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)13:44 No.15403031

    I fixed it so it works on a 3D6 table. And the rarer items are harder to have monsters drop.

    Roll 3D6
    03-07 : Nothing
    08-14 : Rupees (Green -> Orange incl. Rupoor)
    15 : Arrows/Bombs/Pellets
    16 : Seeds
    17 : Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn
    18 : Regeneration Items
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)13:49 No.15403081
    ...You DO realize that a Iron Knuckle would be able to use Mortal Draw with a Great Axe? That's STUPIDLY powerful.
    Maybe just make it like a Sneak attack instead? Just, you know, you can do it in front of someone.

    You'll want to make Regeneration items more common. And change Rupees to change according to Threat Level of the monsters.
    By the way, 3d6 is a bell curve. The most common results are in the centre.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)13:58 No.15403164

    Good point.

    Roll 3D6
    03-07 : Nothing
    08-12 : Rupees (Check Threat Level Rupee Drop Tables)
    13-15 : Regeneration Items
    16 : Arrows/Bombs/Pellets
    17 : Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn
    18 : Regeneration Items

    There are lists of what rupees drop depending on Threat Level in the GM Source wiki. I'll type it here as well.

    Rupee Drops

    Minimal Threat 2D6
    02-10 : Green
    11-12 : Blue

    Low Threat 2D6
    02-06 : Green
    07-11 : Blue
    12 : Yellow

    Medium Threat 2D6
    01 : Green
    02-03 : Blue
    04-07 : Yellow
    08-10 : Red
    11 : Purple
    12 : Rupoor

    High Threat 2D6
    01 : Blue
    02 : Yellow
    03-06 : Red
    07-10 : Purple
    11 : Orange
    12 : Rupoor
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:03 No.15403205
         File1309197780.png-(17 KB, 608x454, 3d6bellcurve.png)
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    Eh. I'm not to sure on the Rupoor, to be honest. How many negative rupees was it again?

    >also, bellcurve
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:04 No.15403220
    For reference, a natural 20 is 5% chance.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)14:09 No.15403263

    Depends on the color of the Rupee, which can be solved simply by just rolling again and take away whatever color you roll. Should you roll a second rupoor you just multiply the negative x2, if another x3, if another x4(ect.) of the color you finally get. Which should be that much of a worry because its a rare chance that someone would get bummed out so bad they roll a x3 Negative Rupoor.

    >sitinsi diarrhea,
    Gross Captcha.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:11 No.15403283
    So you could hypothetically get negative infinity rupees?
    My next character is someone who got one of those, and needs to gather enough rupees to nullify the antirupees.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)14:17 No.15403316

    Could lead to a good quest story that someone has a never ending Rupoor. That or the player's money is completely syphoned and the Rupoor disappears.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:20 No.15403331
    So something like Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland? GATHER RUPEES OR DIE

    ...Speaking of Tingle's game, is it any good? We don't have anything from it, do we?
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)14:23 No.15403351
         File1309199001.jpg-(20 KB, 560x605, 1296188057321.jpg)
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    A better question is do we want anything from that?

    I guess we'd have to do some research to find out. TO YOUTUBE!
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)14:35 No.15403433
    Which of these tables should we use for monster drops?

    No they couldn't, it's a Melee attack, not a Heavy one.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:37 No.15403453
    The 1d6 one seems simpler, to be honest. I'm not sure that we need the Seeds to be random drops.

    >Melee attack, not Heavy
    Oh? Maybe that should be made clear. When I hear "Melee attack" I think "Melee range" so yeah.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:41 No.15403480
    I concur. 1d6 seems better. Other nice drops can be relegated to either small chests, monster drops, or random rewards.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:42 No.15403492
    I can also totally see a random shop keep who will extend you loans at "reasonable rates [smalltext]sucker[/doesn'texistbutyougettheidea]" just so you can buy stuff in that campaign.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)14:56 No.15403603
    The seeds are a consumable just like arrows, bombs, and the like, and they appeared as random drops in the Oracle games, so I'd say they should be on the drop table.

    And agreed with the whole "melee technique" confusion. We need to make sure to specify whether it's "melee" or "|melee|" -- those pipes make a lot of difference.

    I'm inclined to go with >>15403164, because I think the bell curve is a good idea, though it should probably be tweaked to make ammunition more common. Something more like:

    Roll 3D6
    03-07 : Nothing (16.4% chance)
    08-11 : Rupees by threat level (46.29%)
    12-13 : Regeneration Items (21.29%)
    14-16 : Arrows/Bombs/Pellets/Seeds (14.35%)
    >Do we want to make a table for this as well, or just let GMs use whatever method they think appropriate?
    17-18 : Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn (1.85%)

    If anyone wants to adjust this, I'd recommend using AnyDice to get the percentages.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)15:11 No.15403721
    Most of these techniques would work only with Melee weapons anyway; should we add Heavy to the ones that work with heavy weapons, or add a non-Heavy disclaimer to the ones that don't allow those weapons?

    Mystical Seeds were a pretty big deal in those games, though.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)15:15 No.15403753
    Change "Melee" to "|Melee|", add |Heavy| where appropriate. Ending Blow seems like it could work with Heavy, as could Spin Attack.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)16:35 No.15404471
    >Mystical Seeds were a pretty big deal in those games, though.

    Right, so if you're including them in your game, you'd want them to be a potential random drop, wouldn't you? Hence why I put them in the same category with bombs and arrows on my table there -- if you're not using seeds, they wouldn't be dropped, but if you are then that's where they'd fall. Monsters don't drop ammo you don't have access to anyway (no arrows if you don't have the bow, no bombs if you don't have a bomb bag, and so forth).

    Probably the best way to handle those drops would be to simply roll a d6 if you hit that category on the 3d6 roll, assigning results as appropriate for what the party should have access to.
    >> Cz 06/27/11(Mon)16:42 No.15404527

    I did mention that in the Item List describing all the items that can be possibly dropped.

    >If the player has no need for such an item, or does not have an object needed to use said item, the drop will count as nothing.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)17:02 No.15404707
    By "big deal" I meant "valuable." I don't think they're common enough to warrant an entire slot on a random drop table for killing an enemy.

    They might be more suitable as loot or stocked in specific places by the GM (Like faries or bombs).
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)18:00 No.15405177
    I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. The seeds in the Oracle games weren't any more rare or valuable than bombs or arrows in any other game, so I don't see why they shouldn't be treated the same as those other ammunition items if a GM wants to include them in their game. They were pretty common drops from enemies, certainly not rare by any stretch. The only thing that was at all a "big deal" regarding them was getting the new kinds you need to bypass a certain obstacle -- after that, they weren't terribly hard to get ahold of. Just like bombs, arrows, and similar consumables.

    They certainly don't deserve a slot unto themselves, but if we just have a general "ammunition items" slot on the random drop table then the seeds should definitely be included there.
    >> bot27 06/27/11(Mon)18:02 No.15405195
    I think 1d6 loot drops was the best idea so far, I think we should have several different 1d6 tables that vary depending on the situation, rather than a universal 2d6/3d6.
    Mainly because one of zeldas charms was a highly refined system of relatively low numbers, so I think we should keep as many rolls as low as possible to hold on to that feel.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)18:08 No.15405233

    >They certainly don't deserve a slot unto themselves, but if we just have a general "ammunition items" slot on the random drop table then the seeds should definitely be included there.
    > I think we should have several different 1d6 tables that vary depending on the situation

    Hmm. Hmmmmm.
    There's a way to make these things work together somehow.
    >> bot27 06/27/11(Mon)18:36 No.15405392
    My idea is roll 1d6 to find out which type of loot will be dropped, then from there, branch into more situational rolls, that have variable factors like threat and importance of the creature.
    1 - nothing will drop
    2 - rupees will drop
    3 - ammunition that the party needs
    4 - Completley random ammunition
    5 - Regeneration item that the party needs
    6 - Completely random regeneration item

    after this roll, the DM rolls another d6 that the DM can edit to fit the situation,
    for example, lets say he rolls 3, and the party needs deku seeds, sticks, arrows, and bombs. this is only 4 items that need to fill 6 slots, so the DM can decide which take an extra slot by factoring in what the party needs most, and how valuable the items are, and how threatening was the monster slain so the roll can look something like this :

    1 - deku sticks
    2 - deku sticks
    3 - arrows
    4 - arrows
    5 - bombs
    6 - deku seeds
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)18:41 No.15405415
    This looks pretty good, though my one concern is that it adds a bit more work for the GM with the whole "what the party needs" bit, and this system is already looking to be pretty labor-intensive for GMs.

    Not sure how much of an impact it would have, it might be pretty irrelevant, but it's something to keep in mind.
    >> bot27 06/27/11(Mon)18:45 No.15405450
    I had the same concern at first, but then I realized asking the party which items they are short of the maximum on, and by how many isn't as much work as my first instinct told me it was.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)18:54 No.15405506
    Can we table the random drop table discussion for now? The 1d6 table is enough to work with for playtesting. We can expand on it when other things are settled.

    We need to come up with a unified format for techniques and continue editing.
    >> bot27 06/27/11(Mon)19:34 No.15405774
    we need to hit a consensus on how fast we want characters to advance. There needs to be visible improvement as players progress through a dungeon gaining some techs and items, and the biggest bursts of progress need to come at the end of a major quest/dungeon. this should be when players are able to gain hearts, and be able to advance their virtues. so I think our next goal should be solidifying the numbers on how this happens.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/27/11(Mon)21:49 No.15406917
    We already have XP awards on the wiki, andI assume they get to spend XP whenever they either end the session or sleep.

    I can actually take drawing ideas tonight, if people have them.
    >> Anonymous 06/27/11(Mon)22:44 No.15407386
    A moblin?
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)00:01 No.15408085
    So I have to use an action for Active Defense, then hold my next action, the successfully dodge, then make a successful attack "against its flank" which doesn't imply any kind of bonus because we don't have flanking rules?
    That sounds horrid. It's fine the way it is.
    >> rrenok 06/28/11(Tue)00:01 No.15408086
         File1309233699.png-(231 KB, 527x560, zeldatgrrenok.png)
    231 KB
    hey just thought I drop this picture in here it's not finished but i'm about halfway there
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)00:13 No.15408175
    I had already assumed this would be a feature as it's pretty standard in most systems, except you shouldn't have to lose an action for each action you hold unless you hold it/them into the next round. So if you hold your action and use it in the same round, then in the next round you take your turn as normal, but if you hold your action and don't use it until the next round then that is one of your actions for that round and your next action must immediately follow (this assuming you only held one action). If you hold an action all the way until your normal initiative turn in the next round then you just lose the held action and take your normal action for that round.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)00:14 No.15408186
    "Against the flank" means the same thing as attacking Passive Defense (and might mean more things relating to armor later) but we cam change the wording if it works better that way.

    That's looking great so far. Do you have a DA or something? It'd be nice to put all the art so far into the PDF and give credit to the artists.
    >> rrenok 06/28/11(Tue)00:17 No.15408215
         File1309234657.jpg-(20 KB, 204x262, reaction.jpg)
    20 KB
    i do my DA name is phets and thank you

    be prepared for crappy art i dont really post anymore on DA
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)00:32 No.15408337
    This works better than my first version- especially considering how important holding actions will be for things like boss fights, it's not good to have players lose an extra action.

    Nothing worse than my phone-picture scribbles, as far as I can tell.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)00:48 No.15408450
    Whatever we do, it should still be a parrying action, since that's how it worked in TP and WW.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)01:27 No.15408693
    Sorry, "a sort of parrying action." it should involve dodging and counterattacking in some way.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)09:32 No.15411222
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)11:31 No.15412030

    >glorified ueserni
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)12:52 No.15412595
    Does this seem like a good format to use for techniques?

    >Technique Name
    >-XP Cost: 
    >-(Type of Action/Passive Technique)
    >Requirement: (any requirement needed to perform the technique, like wielding a certain weapon)
    >Technique description.

    Also a list of vehicles from the games, let us know if there are any missing or any not from the games that should be included.
    >Sea: Raft, Sailboat, Galleon, Steamboat, Submarine
    >Land: Minecart, Train, Carriage, Spinner
    >Mounted Weapons: Cannon, Catapult, Ballista
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)13:01 No.15412685

    It seems quite complete to me.
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)14:52 No.15413597
         File1309287173.png-(615 KB, 949x1270, TwiliWizardorange.png)
    615 KB
    Whoever suggested the orange hair was right, the contrast is much better.
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)15:02 No.15413676
         File1309287748.png-(1.26 MB, 3390x747, Racelistedit1.png)
    1.26 MB
    And heres the list with the changes.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)15:07 No.15413708
    Hey CZ could you make a Ninjaesque male zora sneaking behind a gerudo pirate, maybe he could be even fin shooting her in her back or something. i would love a pic like that.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)15:11 No.15413746
    Can you label which race is which?
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)15:14 No.15413772
    Ah, Majora's Mask...
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)15:17 No.15413794

    On the image?


    That actually sounds like a good chance for me to play with huge ink areas. I'll give it a go.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)15:34 No.15413935

    Im soo looking forward to this.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)15:39 No.15413985
    Man, I need to get off my butt and do some art for this project. I love what you guys are doing here, and I can't wait to see it done.

    Sorry I can't help with the game-y stuff. Not much of a designer myself, I just like to play.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)16:02 No.15414210
    We always need more drawfags.
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)16:05 No.15414239
         File1309291543.png-(1.52 MB, 1800x396, Racelistedit2.png)
    1.52 MB
    How does this fancy you guys?
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)16:25 No.15414443
    Deku looks far too humanoid; needs a squat look. Gerudo is too pale and the clothes are a bit too skimpy. Other than that, nice work. Would be nice to have the Hylian facing the viewer too, and/or a larger image? Keep up the good work!
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)16:27 No.15414465

    I tried uploading a larger image, it exceeded the post limit.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)16:28 No.15414476
    Could you use tinypic or a similar website?
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)16:33 No.15414527
    Tinypic is a go-go.

    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)16:33 No.15414533
    Best Dungeon puzzle to use for this game

    >Characters enter room, to both sides there is atleast a 4 pots and ahead of them is a metal door
    >The door seems to be trigger opened in some way
    >All pots smashed revealing no switch
    >You have to throw a pot at the door in order for it to open......
    Also fuck you Nintendo that was a dick move
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)16:36 No.15414553
    Is there a consolidated rules PDF yet? I'd love to play test this system.
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)17:00 No.15414846
         File1309294853.png-(86 KB, 468x366, Zorasnipewip.png)
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    Heres the WIP on the Zora sneaking on a Gerudo pic.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:05 No.15414906
    Hey, CZ, any chance of a Terminan mask-maker? Not Mr. Happy Salesman, but someone who actually crafts/also sells those kind of goods.

    Failing that, a Clock town explorer or guard would be great.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:09 No.15414987
         File1309295358.jpg-(831 KB, 1250x1750, rogue.jpg)
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    What's the rules on Male gerudo? NPC only? Because i can think of some loveable rogues to play as.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/28/11(Tue)17:10 No.15415001
    There isn't a fully-formed rules system yet, so no there isn't a PDF. We're still working out kinks to a playtestable level.

    ABOUT THE WIKI: I see a lot of techniques have been added to the wiki, which is good. They still lack ballpark XP-costs, though. Also, was there any feedback on what I did with the racial techniques here?
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:11 No.15415030
    If we're going by canon, there's only one at a time, and he's their king. (And the only on-screen one was Ganon.) Magic is probably involved in there somewhere; not sure if it's canonically a curse or not.

    Maybe have your rogue be a "honourary" Gerudo? Technically an outsider, but impressed the thieves in some way...
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/28/11(Tue)17:12 No.15415038
    If your GM has any regard for Gerudo lore whatsoever, there will only ever be 1 every thousand years. Depending on time period you might be playing in, it could be your character, but them's some big destiny-shoes.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:13 No.15415054
    If the GM allows it, I suppose you could be a male Gerudo...but you'd automatically be deep in Mary Sue territory. Playing an individual that canonically only shows up once every 100 years...yeah...
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/28/11(Tue)17:17 No.15415131
    It's only Mary Sue if:
    - Everyone inexplicably likes you and you're good at everything
    - Despite this, you somehow feel burdened by your circumstances

    Totally possible to have destiny to be king and be an awesome guy who isn't a whining douche.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:19 No.15415157
    And before you ask how they stay alive as a people, they canonically use the people of Castle Town and hyrule as "boyfriends".

    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:19 No.15415169
    Eh, I figured as much. I guess the concept is easily ported to another race; a good-natured rogue out for fame and fortune could easily be a Hylian or Sheikah. Maybe i could even invert the stereotype and have him be a Goron cat burglar.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)17:20 No.15415183
    Just have him as an outsider who earned their respect somehow. Rites of passage, helped them in some way? Whatever it is, he's been trained in their ways and taken their lifestyle as his own.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)17:24 No.15415241

    So far is looking great, i cant wait to see the finished pic.
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)17:35 No.15415363
         File1309296956.png-(245 KB, 673x667, Zorasneak.png)
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    Call me simple, but I like how the sketch lines stay within the shadows.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)18:45 No.15416132
    I like this option. Since the race choices are largely cultural, rather than hereditary, you could be a non-Gerudo who was "kidnapped" (or happily married) into their society. You could be a Hylian with a tan who counts as a Gerudo for game purposes.
    >> NH 06/28/11(Tue)18:58 No.15416257
    Well I've been following CZ on this project for a while and, god dammit I want to try an contribute to this.

    Any of you have any drawing requests? Post them here :U
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)19:02 No.15416292
    Well, what's your style like? That might determine what requests you get.

    Try someone opening a chest.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)19:02 No.15416293
    Just fyi, the brainstorming list I posted here >>15398248 got removed from Mediafire, ostensibly due to copyright violation. I think it was just a misquote from the person claiming the violation (apparently the offending link was picked off of /rs/, and the guy claiming the violation was representing a porn site...I think you can put two and two together), so I've reuploaded it.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)19:06 No.15416322
    Fair enough, my use of the term has been influenced by the, shall we say, "liberal" manner in which it's slung around here on /tg/.

    At any rate, I'd be veeeery leery of anyone trying to play a male Gerudo in my game. Anything that marks someone out as super-special right out of the gates is always a red flag for spotlight-hogging and such.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)19:16 No.15416417

    Wait, is that a crossbow? would have been cool if you had been picture him FIN shooting him, since it is a zora tech but nonetheless, it is coming very nicely, i like the shadows as they are too. And, maybe you could put himm a mouthgurad to make him more stealthy like
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)19:25 No.15416479
    it looks beautiful, definitely one for the book
    >> NH 06/28/11(Tue)19:39 No.15416597
         File1309304393.jpg-(106 KB, 537x644, chest.jpg)
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    Basically this, less sketchy of course~
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)19:45 No.15416655
    not bad

    can you do a picture of a large, muscular goron giving a stalfos a good right hook?
    >> Cz 06/28/11(Tue)20:00 No.15416797

    Oh hey NH, how about this or one. A Kokiri running after a Keese with a slingshot. The Keese stole his/her hat.
    >> rrenok 06/28/11(Tue)20:13 No.15416897
         File1309306396.jpg-(149 KB, 405x432, areyouawizard.jpg)
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    dude thats bitchin!

    post some stuff!
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)20:57 No.15417360
    Hey guys can I post art too

    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)21:22 No.15417621
    what else needs doing now?
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)21:26 No.15417655
    These requests would be much appreciated. And nice art.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/28/11(Tue)21:32 No.15417707
    Tech revising mainly. What do people think should be done with the Back Slice?
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)21:52 No.15417874

    I missed the discussion about back slice, but after reading the wiki it looked fine to me.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)22:45 No.15418300
    If I may make a request, could someone draw a short haired female Twili wearing a warrior-mage style outfit clashing swords with a Darknut?
    >> NH 06/28/11(Tue)22:52 No.15418369
         File1309315956.jpg-(275 KB, 875x1050, Goronsmash.jpg)
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    Here ya go~
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)22:55 No.15418397
    Look at this tech.

    Flash Bomb Vanish (Active)
    Prerequisites: 3 |Stealth|
    XP Cost: Low (Sheikah)
    Actions: 1
    Special: Requires a Deku nut/Flash bomb
    You activate the flash bomb in your space and can immediately move your speed. You are automatically hidden for the entire movement and if you end your movement behind cover, you remain hidden.

    The way that stealth is written right now, makes this tech quite useless frankly, it would be cool if we could redesign it as to be a useful way to get a sneak attack or something along those lines.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)22:57 No.15418421

    lol, that pic is pure win.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)23:00 No.15418449

    Also, could you uplod it somewhere else, cause for some reason i cannot enlarge it in 4chan, happens to me quite a lot recently.
    >> Sir Scribe 06/28/11(Tue)23:08 No.15418505

    Hey guys, Internet's been out for like two weeks, and I would like to say COR BLIMEY.

    I almost can't believe this live, I guess /tg/ really DOES get shit done. It'll take me a while to read through the threads I missed an wiki (If someone wants to give me a condensed breakdown of what I missed that'd be swell), but hot damn. This is seriously awesome guys. Starting thursday I can join the drawfaggotry.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)23:12 No.15418534

    welcome back man
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)23:12 No.15418537
    Requester here, forgot to add that I wanted the Darknut to be a twilight princess style one, unless you want to make an original style one.

    That's awesome.

    A quick question about untrained skill use. Do you just use the relevant attribute and virture combination or is there some kind of penalty? For example, lets say the Zora mage looking guy is forced to defend himself with a sword, if he wasn't trained would he just roll Physical/Courage?

    One more thing. I vote for Zant to be added to the Immortal or Legendary threat list.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)23:14 No.15418559

    I understand you just roll the relevant attribute and keep virtue, without penalty or bonus whatsoever.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)23:16 No.15418573
    The mass media is controlled!
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/28/11(Tue)23:23 No.15418631
    C'mon guys, looking for some feedback. Racial tech costs/modifications seem alright overall? How did we want to work easier access for the Human subtypes, with no prerequisites as on the wiki or with lower cost like I suggested?
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)23:39 No.15418748

    The xp cost looks fine for those techs i think you really nailed it, with the sole exception of bladed fins tech, since it doesnt give you a dmg increment, it should just cost 2 xp and the fins should return after you take any another action, that way you could move after shooting but you just have to wait till you expend another action to be able to shoot again, it is unnecessarly crippling to make the pc expend one action to retrieve the fins. Also, i proppose brawler tech costs 2 xp too.
    >> Anonymous 06/28/11(Tue)23:43 No.15418770
    I strongly agree with the brawler 2 xp cost. It's necessary to make an empty hand fighter at creation.
    >> Gurtyel 06/28/11(Tue)23:44 No.15418774
    We should make a goal to design 4 racial techs for every race that would be a good start, what do you think?
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)00:02 No.15418906
    Thanks, I'll update the wiki for racial techs with those suggestions. How about the Hylian/Gerudo/Shiekah thing? We really need more techs that actually apply to each subtype.

    I think 2 or 3 for each race is fine for the time being. We just want a baseline, and there's always room to expand.

    Really, the way I see it working is we'll get the base system in, and then folks will continue posting new suggestions for techs and items and races and all kinds of things for a very long while after that. Once we have it playable doesn't mean we'll be done developing it, I imagine.
    >> Gurtyel 06/29/11(Wed)00:05 No.15418922
    By the way, i edited brawler in the wiki to cost 2 xp
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)00:38 No.15419163
    Lower cost is probably the way to go for the human benefits. Lowered prerequisites either give them powerful techs too early or doesn't matter since they already meet the prerequisites.

    I'll try and post some tech ideas specifically for humans.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)00:55 No.15419287
    TECHNIQUES: Okay, edited the wiki to add xp costs to the techniques, and tweaked a few of them that had strange wordings or didn't make sense. In particular I added some drawbacks to the ranged techniques (two attacks in one actions without penalty? I don't think so), and stated that all active |Heavy| techniques require a recovery actions as normal for attacking with a |Heavy| weapon, so each technique didn't have to explicitly list a recovery action.

    What's next on the list? And are there any glaring problems with what's on the wiki technique list now?
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)01:01 No.15419350
    Another thought about Techniques. Do we want to limit how often an Active technique can be used? It might seem like it's stealing the "cool" out of the system, but unless we do it there will be almost no reason to ever make a normal attack.

    Perhaps we could build a method of determining how many Active techniques a character can use in a single combat, but which techniques those are is left up to the character. That way they have to manage their use of techniques vs. normal attacks, but can use the same technique multiple times if desired.

    Alternatively, we could put a "cooldown" mechanic on the techniques, a number of rounds before they can be used again, but I'm pretty sure that idea will get shot down simply because it vaguely reminds people of MMOs.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)01:07 No.15419410
    Maybe have the characters earn "tech points" by landing attacks/ defending successfully/ casting a spell/ etc. Then, the character can use a number of tech points dependent on the technique (maybe equal to the xp cost of the tech?). Passive techniques of course wouldn't have a point cost.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)01:11 No.15419449
    Most techniques have drawbacks to them that keep players from spamming them over and over. Sure, there's nothing stopping a player from constantly using Jump Attack round after round, but he keeps leaving himself wide open, and a smart GM will have monsters wise up to the players tactics once they see them used for the first time.

    Also, human-based techs

    -Prerequisites: Magic 3
    -XP Cost: 4 (Hylian 2)
    -Single Action
    You can mentally communicate with one of your allies within 100 meters. The telepathy is two-way, and your ally can respond to your message as a single action.
    Special: Certain items, such as Telepathic Tiles, may extend the range of your telepathy.

    Piercing Gaze
    -Prerequisites: Perception 4
    -XP Cost: 6 (Sheikah 3)
    -Passive Technique
    When you believe that something you see is an illusion, you can make a Perception check as a free action to see through it.

    -Prerequisites: Courage 3, Guard 3
    -XP Cost: 4 (Sheikah 2)
    -Free Action
    If an ally adjacent to you is attacked, you can push the ally 1 space, move into their vacated space, and force the attack to target you instead.
    >making this use a held action would make it less useful, but a free action might be too easy to abuse. Thoughts?

    -Prerequisites: Dodge 4
    -XP Cost: 6 (Gerudo 3)
    -Passive Technique
    You can move through shifting or uneven terrain at full speed instead of half speed. 

    Scouring Winds
    -Prerequisites: Magic 4, Courage 3, Power 3
    -XP Cost: 4 (Gerudo 2)
    -Passive Technique
    You deal an extra 1/4H damage per success with wind-based Magic attacks.

    Healing Winds
    -Prerequisites: Magic 4, Courage 3, Wisdom 3
    -XP Cost: 4 (Hylian 2)
    -Passive Technique
    When you move an ally with a wind-based Magic spell, you heal them for 1/4H.

    And some high-end technique ideas, nit race related
    Warlock's Might
    >Half-MP Power spells
    Sage's (whatever)
    >Half-MP Wisdom spells
    (whatever's) Heart
    >Half-MP Courage spells 
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)01:45 No.15419699
    When you guys get around to masks

    Please let there be a luchador mask
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)01:58 No.15419761
    I actually really love this suggestion. Can we get more thoughts on this? It would be a very cool, intuitive combat mechanic, I think. You could get a point for tech usage at the end of each of your turns, plus another point for each successfully completed action, perhaps? Only actions that require a roll, of course; things like attacking, leaping a small chasm, swinging on a rope into a baddie and knocking him into a pit, etc. You could even gain points for successful uses of a technique, to keep the momentum going.

    >these tescrama
    What about them, Captcha?
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)02:48 No.15420023
         File1309330111.png-(1.38 MB, 1162x820, why?.png)
    1.38 MB
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)03:36 No.15420344
    This never stops being the worst thing.
    >> Sir Scribe 06/29/11(Wed)04:01 No.15420534
    When I get my artdesk set up on thursday I'm going to just do a bunch of art for this. Go ahead and throw requests to me now (Or I'll just draw whatever character ideas come to mind)

    Also is it just me or are we autosaging?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)04:13 No.15420617
    I'm not sure, but I just archived it anyway.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)04:53 No.15420863
    I have requests.
    Hylian adult male knight in chainmail with a simple sword and armored gauntlet for defense, light facial hair, military haircut. Maybe a cape? It's a really basic, possibly boring design, but that's my current character.

    Also, NPC I'm gonna use, bumbling Rito messenger who always arrives by crashing from the sky. He's like that running guy, but landing on your head when he shows up.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)04:56 No.15420875
    >It's a really basic, possibly boring design
    I thought it sounded pretty awesome
    I like the Rito idea too
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)05:11 No.15420954
         File1309338702.jpg-(46 KB, 625x1000, vertical_05-1000.jpg)
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    The only one I really have a problem with is the Goron. Their backs are always rounded even when they're standing upright, the way his back looks right now looks like he has a bad case of shingles, and it should probably be rocks on his shoulders rather than hairs
    >> Sir Scribe 06/29/11(Wed)05:29 No.15421039
    Just a couple aesthetic questions - by "military haircut" do you mean shaved head? Does he wear the gauntlet on his sword arm or free hand? Anything over the chainmail (Link-style) or bare chainmail shirt?
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)06:28 No.15421287
    More of a crew-cut, gauntlet is on his free hand, and I pictured a free chain shirt with a short tabbard perhaps.

    Why thank you! His name is Shiro, and he'll be my GMPC for my trial campaign.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)09:33 No.15422222
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)10:13 No.15422446

    I second this, the back looks flat, when it should be rounder, also, the legs are too long they are supposed to be shorter, the overall height in the goron is fine though.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)11:18 No.15422802
    Trying to come up with a mechanic for Dead Man's Volley, I know it should involve Melee rolls that get more difficult over time, but that's all.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)11:39 No.15422939
    ...I'm not really sure what Dead Man's Volley is, but would it work to just make it an unopposed check with increasing difficulty? After what I suppose is an initial hit.
    Perhaps odd rolls add 1 to one thingy and even ones add 1 to the other thingy?
    >Initial hit
    Obviously you'd start at something higher than 1(1), but yeah.

    This is all assuming that I'm not gravely misunderstanding what a Dead Man's Volley is. I'm guessing on some kind of enemy-jugling technique, but I'm not sure if that's been in zelda.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)11:49 No.15422979
         File1309362594.png-(279 KB, 568x386, Phantom Ganon.png)
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    Dead man's volley is the bit where some boss starts throwing glowy energy balls at you and you have to play the most dangerous game of tennis possible.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)11:52 No.15422994
    >>15422939 again
    Oooooh. It's the tennis thing.
    Ignore that post, I guess.

    Actually! Back when we discussed spells that was a part of Ganon's Magic Ball thingy.

    >If attack is blocked by enemy, make an attack against yourself
    >repeat ad infinitum

    Also a juggle technique could work. Especially if it's governed by Mass.

    >nothing. triese
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)11:54 No.15423006
         File1309362882.gif-(78 KB, 468x994, 20090416.gif)
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    >xpecente affected
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)11:59 No.15423026
    Dead Man's Volley is where you and an enemy deflect a magic attack back and forth until one of you fails and gets hit. You've got it.

    Ok, so I can assume how it starts:
    >Caster creates the initial attack; the target can defend against the attack as usual, or if they have a held action, they can engage in a Dead Man's Volley.

    Not sure how it plays out round after round though, unless all the action stops until the volley is resolved (which is more dramatic but less fun for those not participating.)
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)12:01 No.15423031
    Perhaps the attack spawns an orb of magic or such? It moved around rather slowly, and volleys sometimes took longer than six seconds...
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)12:10 No.15423077
    I guess the problem with that is that it doesn't escalate, and it doesn't model actively attacking an enemy's spell.

    I like this a lot. It moves between targets a round at a time, up to the point where it's so fast both participants are attacking it twice each round.
    Might have to fiddle with initiative to make it work though.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)13:12 No.15423489
    It shouldn't escalate. At it's core, the Volley is waiting for someone to make a mistake. Opposed tests until that happens works fine.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)13:21 No.15423560
    Or, if we wanted to make it EVEN simpler:
    Russian Roulette. With dice.
    don't roll a 1
    >> Gurtyel 06/29/11(Wed)13:26 No.15423601

    That is kind of funny, but it could really work.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)13:30 No.15423627
    Depends on which game you're looking at. IIRC, the older games keep a constant speed on the projectile, but it definitely accelerates in at least some of the newer ones.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)13:30 No.15423632
    Well yeah.
    >At it's core, the Volley is waiting for someone to make a mistake.
    >At it's core
    >make a mistake
    >1 always fails, even in opposed checks

    Oh, and this let's them block it with virtually anything. Like, say, a bottle. Or butterfly net.
    It also doesn't use virtues/attributes/skills, so a kid is as good as the King of Evil. (or, you know, a giant Deku Scrub Boss.)
    >> Gurtyel 06/29/11(Wed)13:38 No.15423683

    You make a really good point, not anybody should be able to pull this trick.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)13:48 No.15423730
    Wrong, wrong. That's how it works in-game. If anything, limit it to relatively slow moving, energized attacks like the fireballs Ganon spams in OOT.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)14:00 No.15423802
    And the orb-o-death that Agahnim uses. You know, the only human wizard you fight in the games.

    >specified reloport
    yes, he teleported into another reality after the battle
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)14:58 No.15424255
    If it uses the Melee skill, then bottles and butterfly nets could be considered improvised weapons.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)15:29 No.15424559
    You could also block it with a Shield. (Or at least a mirror shield.)
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)15:59 No.15424928
    I don't know for sure about that. Blocking in the game, even with the Mirror Shield, resulted in getting hit.

    They'd have to have taken some shield attack technique for that to work.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/29/11(Wed)16:10 No.15425081
    I dunno if -all- weapons/items should be able to reflect orb-type spells. Possibly just certain categories of weapons and items, like magic swords and specials reflective items like the mirror shield.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)16:44 No.15425374
    A spin attack can and does.
    >> Cz 06/29/11(Wed)16:48 No.15425400

    I'll round out his back. The next few days are gonna get hectic for me I got thesis work to do. But I'll pop in with new art every once and awhile.
    >> Cz 06/29/11(Wed)17:08 No.15425543
         File1309381738.png-(1.06 MB, 1541x1797, Goronbackedit.png)
    1.06 MB
    Heres the edit.
    >> Cz 06/29/11(Wed)17:16 No.15425581
         File1309382172.png-(1.52 MB, 1800x396, Racelistedit3.png)
    1.52 MB
    And the race list edit with it.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)17:36 No.15425734
    No interest, CZ? The goron hammer texture is a nice, subtle touch, by the way.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)17:38 No.15425754
    rule 34 of dat hylian ass
    >> Cz 06/29/11(Wed)17:40 No.15425769

    Oh no there "IS" interest, but I refer you to what I posted before.


    I'm gonna be busy the next few days. I'll try and do something with that request.
    >> Gurtyel 06/29/11(Wed)17:57 No.15425933

    Any plans to finishing coloring the zora-gerudo pic CZ? I think it would look great in the stealth skill part when we finally put together a pdf file.
    >> Cz 06/29/11(Wed)18:52 No.15426333

    Yes after my thesis work.
    >> Gurtyel 06/29/11(Wed)19:05 No.15426394

    Nice, im happy to "hear" that. Good luck with your thesis man.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)19:24 No.15426528
    If anybody is drawing, I would like to re-request this. Alternatively she could just be standing by herself with a sword in her right hand and some sort of Twili magic thing floating in her left hand.
    >> Sir Scribe 06/29/11(Wed)19:38 No.15426650
    I'll get that done right after I finish >>15420863's requests
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)19:38 No.15426654
    Don't forget bug catching nets.
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)19:53 No.15426774
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)21:46 No.15427619
         File1309398404.png-(419 KB, 1000x773, Shiro resize.png)
    419 KB
    Yo Friendly Neighborhood DM, you still in here? I done did finished Shiro.

    Managed to get my art stuff set up a day early~
    >> Sir Scribe 06/29/11(Wed)21:48 No.15427630
    Herp Derp forgot my name.

    Let me know if you want a resized version. Furthermore, DO I have your permission to post this on my DA account?
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/29/11(Wed)23:16 No.15428345
    I feel like I need to draw some Darknuts, but are there other creature requests?

    Also, Moblins are nigh-impossible (Wind Waker moblins at least, but those are the best kind.)
    >> Anonymous 06/29/11(Wed)23:22 No.15428412
    Keese, Deku Babas, wolfos and gibdos would all be good. But anything you want to draw is fine, we just need art to fill out the eventual pdf
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/30/11(Thu)02:02 No.15429852
    Nothing final in here, just design sketches to see what looks good.

    Vire, Keese, Gibdo, some Octos, Wolfos, Eyegore.
    I'm not good with mammals.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/30/11(Thu)02:41 No.15430166
    Thank you, sir! That's pretty awesome. Yes, permission to post on DA granted. My character, your art, I figure we both have rights.

    I should be starting my campaign in the next two weeks. Is anybody working on adding the attributes/virtues to the monsters? If not I'll probably work on that over the weekend. I'm not that familiar with all of them, so I'll probably leave out skills unless it's obvious a monster should have one or two, and the skills can be added in later.
    >> Temporary Combat Namefag 06/30/11(Thu)02:49 No.15430250
    I was hoping to add special attacks to monsters, so if you can wait I can do that part too.

    Also I think we need a new thread.
    >> Sir Scribe 06/30/11(Thu)03:09 No.15430355
    It seems all the work that was preventing me from doing art today is pushed to tommorow, meaning the Rito may have to wait 'till Friday.

    Hope you're pleased with Shiro; I was unsure if I did the face and hair to your liking.
    >> Your Friendly Neighborhood DM 06/30/11(Thu)03:59 No.15430669
    Hair's fine, and I kind of like how the expression came out. Different from what I had in my head, of course, but I like it.

    I can wait, thanks much. Anything I can do to help?

    And yeah, it's probably new thread time.

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