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    576 KB World of Darkness. Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:10 No.16121546  
    I like urban fantasy a lot, but hate modern take on vampires and to extent werewolves.

    every urban fantasy thread always inevitably mention white wolf, and it's arguably one of the more popular systems.

    please /tg/ explain to me why white wolf is so good? Never played it.

    also is there a way to play regular joe people in the games? So many urban fantasy appears to be "you are not normal" variety.

    pic not very related
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:12 No.16121566
    >I hate modern take on vampires and werewolves
    I'm assuming you mean "Twilight". Don't worry, there's nothing of Meyer's fairyfaggotry within miles of White Wolf.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:17 No.16121618
    twilight too, but I also dislike Ann Rice's stuff too. I liked interview with the vampire movie, but once I dug a little deeper I lost SAN everywhere.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:19 No.16121635
    You want urban fantasy without vamps and werewolves?

    Mage or Hunter, depending on just how fantastic you want your urbanites. Both sweet games. Both WW products.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:20 No.16121644
    >also is there a way to play regular joe people in the games? So many urban fantasy appears to be "you are not normal" variety.

    The core nWoD rulebook is essentially "Mortal: the Pants Shitting"

    Also to an extent Hunter: the Vigil works, too.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:20 No.16121645
    The Sabbat. What vampires are supposed to be like.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:21 No.16121650
    Why is it good though? That's what I'm basically asking in the thread.

    I want to be sold.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:21 No.16121653
    The core WoD book doesn't actually have Vampires or Werewolves in it.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:22 No.16121663
    With Hunter being Mortal: the Let's Kill These Freaks
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:24 No.16121679

    Basically, WoD is streamlined, modular, and simple. It relies on 10s and 5s, which is a plus for some people. The setting-specific "classes" are generally flavorful and each game plays extremely differently to the others.

    I don't know your tastes so I don't know what to talk about.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:24 No.16121690
    >Why is it good though?
    Its a fairly intuitive system with a modular sandbox modern supernatural setting that has lots of neat details if you take the time to read up on them. Also, most roleplayers are at least passingly familiar with it.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:25 No.16121692
    There's a minor bit of Rice influence for the antique aesthetic of the older vamps, but by and large, WW dips into all sorts of mythos for their vamps, depending on clan. The Ventrue have some notably Rice flavor, but the others quite less so. For example, the disfigured Nosferatu borrow from the Count Orlok tales, while the Gangrel borrow from the vampires-as-predatory-beast notion.

    You say you've never played it - well, maybe you should, before you judge based on what you think might be there when you don't know if it is or not.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:25 No.16121696
    It... is a decent system. It has its flaws, like any system, but as long as you don't really play a combat-intensive game it should be ok. The biggest strength of the system (in my eyes) is the variety and the scope of material that is available in the form of different splat books and campaign material. I personally prefer the Dresden Files RPG for Urban Fantasy, but that is because I am sold on Dresden Files and a sucker for FATE.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:29 No.16121729
    >every urban fantasy thread always inevitably mention white wolf, and it's arguably one of the more popular systems.
    By my perception it's the most popular after D&D.
    >please /tg/ explain to me why white wolf is so good?
    the stat and skill system makes sense, and it's not a combat only system like some are. I mean, what makes it good depends on what you're comparing to.
    >also is there a way to play regular joe people in the games?
    That's the default.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:30 No.16121737
    It actually sounds like you're trying your hardest not to be sold at the same time. If you're wondering why it's good, download the PDFs, read 'em.

    The system's an interesting one, it's quite efficient and clean-cut, allows for almost any action to have a roll assigned to it without any real difficulty.

    Something that might make it or break it for you is the fact that it has a morality system of sorts - a scale from 10 to 0. Your actions will slowly affect your character's state of mind, provide derangements and if you're really that evil, turn your character into a person who is so insane they can no longer be played.

    You can definitely play regular joes but unless you use the Hunter: the Vigil book, everything they could do a vampire or a werewolf could do better.

    Actually, here's a question for YOU.

    What do you want out of "urban fantasy"?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:36 No.16121811
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    I personally prefer urban fantasy where people are more likely to be skeptical of the supernatural even for the PC's. Gators in the sewers, UFO sightings and such where a half eaten corpse would be identified with posthumous animal consumption before a cannibal.
    eh, I have never seen people in /tg/ describe vampires anything other than cultured fang people.
    Why can't it handle protracted combat? also what's the flaw?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:39 No.16121846
    >I'm assuming you mean "Twilight". Don't worry, there's nothing of Meyer's fairyfaggotry within miles of White Wolf.
    players bloodline.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:41 No.16121866
    >I personally prefer urban fantasy where people are more likely to be skeptical of the supernatural even for the PC's. Gators in the sewers, UFO sightings and such where a half eaten corpse would be identified with posthumous animal consumption before a cannibal.

    Oh, then WoD works for you then.

    That's kind of the point. The only people who jump to the conclusion of a cannibal are people who've already seen shit.

    Even if that wasn't the case, you can still have every NPC act sensible or have realistic conclusions, and try to keep your PCs to the same expectations.

    >eh, I have never seen people in /tg/ describe vampires anything other than cultured fang people.

    They have a culture, that doesn't mean all of them are "cultured." It'd be difficult to make a game based around being the monster if the monster was forced to be either non-sentient or an extreme hermit with hairy palms.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:41 No.16121875

    I think he meant the sparkling and vampires being capable of true emotion.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:41 No.16121876
    >I personally prefer urban fantasy where people are more likely to be skeptical of the supernatural even for the PC's
    WoD is suitable to this.
    >Why can't it handle protracted combat? also what's the flaw?
    It can handle it, but if you run it as a string of fights, there will be a fair bit of PC death and there'll be two thirds of the system sitting unused.
    Generally the most commonly perceived flaw is that guns trump tend to be the most powerful combat option.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:44 No.16121896
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    Can I have this as an rpg please? kthanxbai
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:44 No.16121904
    The system is designed to be a skill system, with combat more or less tacked on. Weapon rules are a bit unrefined and it can handle clunkily and tends to fall into a gap between abstraction and detail, trying to be both and acheiving neither.

    This being said, it is by far not a bad system. It is streamlined and intuitive.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:45 No.16121912
    Dresden files might be better for you (I'm a fan of WoD saying that too).
    >> Lamenter 08/30/11(Tue)19:46 No.16121921
    In really enjoyed Unknown Armies for it's urban legend/conspiracy theory feel. It felt really gritty.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:47 No.16121932
    In Vampire: the Requiem, there's five Clans for vampires. Your Clan is judged by the vampire that bit you, they're essentially bloodlines.

    Ventrue: Noble, aristocratic vampires who favour dominance and power over all else. They are dedicated megalomaniacs with an urge to control everything around them.
    Daeva: Sexual, artistic, perfectionists. Unlike the Ventrue who dominate through sheer force of will and social power, they seduce and deceive their victims.
    Gangrel: Bestial, primal, primitive. They're hunters, first and foremost. They're the sort of vampire that pounces on a victim in an alley like a mugger and drains 'em dry. First and foremost though, they're survivors.
    Nosferatu: Horrifying, inhuman, dreadful. There's something wrong with them and everyone can tell. How they hunt varies but they aren't social. They're either hideously ugly or impossibly strange.
    Mekhet: They're the stealthier cliche of vampire, the paranoid, secretive sort. They leave behind completely unaware victims who wake up in the morning, feeling light-headed.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:48 No.16121940
    I dunno, in DFRPG you tend to play within the supernatural community, and Mortal PCs tend to not fall in the Average Joe category. I think just basic Mortals in WoD would fit better.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:51 No.16121973
    WOD could work
    Unknown armies or witchcraft could also work.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:54 No.16122016
    >sparkling vampires

    The rules for that also state that people gain willpower for hating you. It was clearly meant to be a joke (if the title "Dudes of Legend" didn't tip you off...)
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)19:55 No.16122021
    Dudes of Legend was the best 70 cents I ever spent.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:02 No.16122094
    no shit.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:09 No.16122157
    Play Mage or Changeling then.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:31 No.16122403
    >vampires being incapable of true emotion
    Ugh. Why even put this into the system? It's just an unnecessary roleplaying constraint; if anything, you should only lose emotion as Humanity falls.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:36 No.16122469
    odd. i dont remember a ghost gay viking.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:37 No.16122489
    That guy who kills himself and then keeps appearing in Iceman's visions.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:38 No.16122502
    you can play mortal wod
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:40 No.16122529
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:46 No.16122591
    Well, that was a non sequitur.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:51 No.16122685
    It's an opinion she has. Down to the very last word. Made me wonder.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:51 No.16122688
    last time i checked he neither a ghost nor gay nor a viking.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:55 No.16122717

    I'd like to second that you probably want dresden files. Clued in mortals are easily done; you just need some decent stunt investment in order to bend the rules in your favor, and make sure to bail or use heavy explosives once the fireballs start flying
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)20:55 No.16122724
    Let's say I'm open to the possibility of it being me, and pretend that you won't dismiss the opinion and call me some variant of "retarded bitch" because it's me who's holding it. Is that acceptable?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:55 No.16122727
    Whatever, never really followed it, just found it hilarious that a guy from my school was in a series.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:58 No.16122766
    it is kinda hilarious that he makes tons of money and you spend your nights talking about him on the interwebs.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)20:59 No.16122784
    rolled 1 = 1

    Relax, I know you a bit better than that.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:05 No.16122856
    Don't get me wrong I'm happy for the guy, I just still think it's funny.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:06 No.16122864
    >By my perception it's the most popular after D&D.
    Your perception would be correct. WoD is second largest RPG in the business and has been for decades now.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:07 No.16122870
    All right. I may or may not be slightly bitter.

    Anyway. No, I still don't like that aspect of Requiem, especially since "you can't have real emotions" is applied to no other RPG in existence that I can think of. It's an incredibly intimate violation of your ability to play your own character.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:10 No.16122900
    It's meant to constrain role-playing. That's a big part of WoD. They give you fairly tight restraints on your character to actually force you to think about your actions.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:10 No.16122908
    why is guns trumphing everyhting a bad thing?

    shouldn't guns be powerful in a modern setting?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:11 No.16122913
    Then allow me to ask this; what does the game gain by it?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:12 No.16122922
    I figured, after the number of times I disappeared on you folks like that after promising games and so on. Was pretty downright rude of me but I'll admit, I've got a case of nerves.

    As for what you're saying, It all depends on what you think "real emotions" are. Vampires can feel emotions but they are just memories. Comparisons. You might love someone like you loved a highschool sweetheart, for example. However, you won't feel anything... New, or different. They'll remind of things you felt before. It's interesting and it's challenging but I understand that you might not be interested in that and fair enough.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:14 No.16122951
    It forces you to have a more simplistic roleplaying experience than, say, D&D. The game tries HARD to have something to do with horror, but your chars literally do not give a shit and are categorically incapable of giving a shit.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:17 No.16122994
    Put better than I thought. The best you can really do is have your players be horrified at your characters.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:19 No.16123014
    Of course you give a shit. Humanity is, literally, the levels of humanity you've managed to retain. The person you're describing is very low down on the scale. In fact, not feeling emotions is what causes you to lose Humanity.

    At humanity 7 you would still feel fear, guilt, anger, whatever. It's just that the emotions are reflections of those you felt in life.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:21 No.16123032
    And what does this distinction do? How does it benefit the game? How does it help any damned thing whatsoever?
    >> Benign Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:22 No.16123052
    Yes and no. It makes wasting space in anything else pointless. Unless you are fighting vampires, for which by all means grab that broadsword.

    Basically the World of Darkness games are
    WoD core (Mortals the Victimizing)
    Vampire The Requiem
    Werewolf The Forsaken
    Mage The Awakening
    Changling the lost (Fairy the rape-victiming)
    Promethean the Created (Frankenstien the being Persecuteding)
    Hunter the Vigil (All of the Above the Victimizing.)

    Ask about any you wish and Ill answer as best I can.

    Also, apparently they are making a new Mummy game, which i wanna see. My friends used to joke about that but now we wonder what they are gonna do.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:23 No.16123063
    How does it hinder the game?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:25 No.16123079
    Well, it's bugging the shit out of me to know that I can never experience any new emotions, or actually experience any emotions ever.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:26 No.16123096
    It's a curveball, something that forces you to play something stranger than human, to challenge you as a roleplayer.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:28 No.16123124
    I already got that when I had a lunatic monster inside of me, a craving for blood, and an inability to see daylight. In any case, all the other gamelines allow you to play something nonhuman without stripping you of emotion.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:29 No.16123129
    Then don't play vampire. To put this in the kindest possible way, WoD has a large focus on personal horror. In Werewolf's case, your emotions are all larger than life. In Changeling's case, you can't tell the difference between dreams and reality. In Vampire's case, you're a corpse that refuses to accept that it's dead.

    If you don't want that personal horror, then don't play the game.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:29 No.16123136
    "They have emotion-like thingies but they're not REAL emotions" is as ham-fisted and random of a way to inject artificial angst into an RPG. No one knows even what the fuck that means, or how it should be roleplayed.

    The whole beast and blood drinking thing does fine as far as that is concerned, as Requiem vampires are as strange as you can get.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:30 No.16123139
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    REPRASENT, motherfuckers!

    All the good parts, none of the Twilight bullshit.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:32 No.16123166
    >WoD has a large focus on personal horror.

    In vampire, you play an emotionless character who only cares about drinking blood. In other words, vampire cannot be a game about personal horror because vampires cannot care about anything other than drinking blood. Its more a game about surreal black comedy than anything else.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:33 No.16123181
    Also: Geist: the Badassing, Hard-Partying, Ghost-Hunting Dead People. Who got better.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:35 No.16123211
    The emotion stripping part is incorrect. There are emotions, they're just not new emotions. It's something to make the character and the player realised that they're no longer human. If you want, you're free to remove that aspect from the game but it could add a lot to someone else's game.

    In short, it provides a personal question: "If I am no longer human, why should I behave as one?" and no, the blood drinking and the Beast are not enough.

    There are still people out there who would rather play vampires as changed humans, along the vein of Changeling when it simply isn't the case. They're no longer human. They can't relate to human. They're a whole other animal and this is added to slam that point into the player's face, I suppose.
    For a personal game though, you're free to ignore that, as well as any other snippets of fluff you dislike.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:36 No.16123219
    That's the horror. You're a monster that desperately clings to vestiges of humanity. You have enough of your emotions left to care about not having emotions.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:37 No.16123232
    Each game focuses on a question, a moral issue. White Wolf tries to be DEEP like that. For Vampire, they seemed to focus on the descent from humanity and what it does to a person when they no longer even think like a human.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:38 No.16123246
    Well, if I ever do join a game, my strategy is to simply ignore that aspect because I find it incredibly asinine. But I suppose if people want it, they can have it; I just wonder why it was said to apply to all Kindred.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:39 No.16123256
    Which questions are those?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:39 No.16123258
    What kindred wouldn't it apply to?
    >> Benign Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:40 No.16123273

    I for got

    Giest the Sin-Eaters (Mortal the Fuck-Yeahening)
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:41 No.16123283
    White Wolf is as DEEP as you play it to be. If you want to spend the entire game soliloquising about your monstrous nature, that's fine, but the game's default is that you try to explore the issues more naturally.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:41 No.16123295
    Those with a Humanity over about 5, ideally.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:43 No.16123319
    I hate to break it to you, but you're planning to make a special snowflake.

    If you don't want to play the game, don't play the game.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:44 No.16123322
    There's nothing official anywhere. I guess it's how I look at the situation.

    "I'm not human anymore, why should I act like one?"
    "I have the power. Why shouldn't I become a God?"
    "Everything's changed, even me. What should I do now?"
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:45 No.16123339
    To use your argument, low-humanity vampires already have enough things seperating them from their humanity - why do they need this as well?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:47 No.16123365
    If there's no outward obviousness of it and I don't talk about it, why would it be a problem?

    If you had to use it at all, I mean. I would have no problem with jettisoning it entirely.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:50 No.16123396
    >It's something to make the character and the player realised that they're no longer human.

    Except no one, including yourself, has ever began to explain how it goes about doing so, or how a vampire should behave differently in a given situation. The very, very most anyone has ever done is to say "oh yeah, well when you feel X, its like that one time from life" which still explains nothing at all.

    >If you want, you're free to remove that aspect from the game but it could add a lot to someone else's game.

    Unlikely, since it introduces literally zero conceivable roleplaying possibilities or story hooks, and no one can even begin to explain what this means. The closest is "well when you feel love now, its the same love you felt towards a specific girl from your breathing days" which is more like saying "when vampires feel a given emotion strongly, they tend to be reminded OF their living days." Which is fine. Unnecessary and forced, but fine.

    >what it does to a person when they no longer even think like a human.

    It gives them Vampire Alzheimers. Next question? The moral of the story is, kiddos, keep your humanity at 7+. Problem solved.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:50 No.16123406
    It is official, it's just not phrased as a question. Every gameline has a theme. Mage's theme is, as you suggest, "Power Corrupts." You have amazing power, why shouldn't you use it?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:51 No.16123415
    There isn't any convincing you, you're free to think what you will. However, I'll stick with the point that the blood-sucking and lack of sunlight isn't enough to prevent most people from roleplaying a vampire as anything other than a normal human.

    That was a big issue with oWoD - gothic superheroes everywhere.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:54 No.16123451
    In general the developers really didn't have much of a clue about the games they were making at all. VtR is the biggest example, in that they were intended to be the most socially adept splat when they are by far the worst, (except for social interactions with long term NPCs) and that they had no idea what the repercussions of Predator's Taint would be, while Forsaken were intended to be the "physical" oriented splat, but are vastly less RIP AND TEAR than, say werewolves.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)21:54 No.16123457
    It's just... I accept the notion of personal horror, but I don't believe horror can be a permanent state. It either turns into jaded depression or you finally find a way to leave it behind. You can be horrified repeatedly by different things, but I don't think it's feasible for the same thing to continue horrifying you for your entire existence.

    Also, it reminds me way too much of actual depression.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:56 No.16123482
    Humanity vs the Beast is about a thousand times as important a conflict in Requiem than in Masquerade (due to Paths of Enlightenment being gone) and as such vampires will indeed play wildly different than human characters. There's definitely no need for some vague malaise of permanent angst.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)21:58 No.16123520
    You know, I've never heard Vampire described as a black comedy, but thinking about it now, that makes a lot of sense.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:00 No.16123546
    >RE: Why don't vampires have emotions?

    Think about it this way. Let's say there are two stories:
    >A vampire falls in love with a human and manages to constrain his blood-lust in order to live happily with her. True love conquers all.
    >A vampire decides to be in love with a human because he wants to delude himself into thinking he's not a stagnating corpse.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:00 No.16123559
    Most vampires descend into that jaded state. It's canon. They stop caring about their memories so much and they act more like sentient predators, each Clan with their own twist but all just as ruthless as the other.

    The only vampires who can ever climb out the depression are the rumoured few who reach that state of... Gehenna, I think it's called. Forgot the name.

    Anyway, WoD isn't the best system to escape from grimdark reality with.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:03 No.16123601
    Golconda, I think? I don't know what the nWoD version's called.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:03 No.16123605
    For all the people saying the vamps have no emotions, I certainly don't remember that from the book, I could be wrong but as I recall they have very subdued emotions.

    Hard to feel empathy, hard to get passionate about something, that's why the culture is so stagnant, they never feel that strongly about anything but get to live forever, eternally sort of remembering what it was like to have stronger human emotions.

    I'm pretty sure that's why the Danse Macabre started too, since they had to find SOMETHING to occupy their time with.

    Note I could be totally wrong as it's been a while since I read the Requiem book but that's how I remember it.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:04 No.16123610
    If you look at it in a certain way, the entire WoD is a black comedy.

    >I lost all my emotions, so now I spend decades on end just being really bored.
    >I'm too wolfy to be human and too human to be a wolf. I'm also half-spirit, but all spirits hate me.
    >I once spent 18 years as a tree.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:04 No.16123616
    Ho ho ho, false dilemma. If "you want to delude yourself" you obviously have emotions.


    >A vampire decides to be in love with a human because he wants to delude himself into thinking he's not a stagnating corpse.

    Keep your Twilight, thanks.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:04 No.16123618
    Golconda! That's it. The two settings share the same name for it.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:05 No.16123629
    All this talk of tragedy, but no mention of Promethean?

    I guess it fits the theme of the game that no one talks about it ever.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:06 No.16123640
    >Also, it reminds me way too much of actual depression.
    maybe something called world of DARKNESS isn't the game for someone who doesnt want something that's dark.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:07 No.16123651
    >Also, it reminds me way too much of actual depression.
    That's pretty much the point. WoD might as well be called "Mental Problems: The Therapy."

    Of course, you're free to play it any way you want.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:09 No.16123672
    Dang, you're right.
    >Prometheans are very very few and mostly hated by the world
    >P:tC is rarely (if ever) played and mostly forgotten by the gaming scene
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:09 No.16123682
    As mentioned above, you do have emotions, they're just muted reflections.

    >Keep your Twilight
    Ever read Twilight? If it had nuance it wouldn't be so hated.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:10 No.16123688

    I have always liked the Ordo Draculu trying to become like beyond vampire, however, I have never been able to mentally grasp what such a creature would be like, despite wanting to put one in my game as some sort of NPC.

    In your opinion /tg/ what would a Ordo Vampire 2.0 be like?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:10 No.16123692
    From what I hear, it's almost impossible to play.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)22:11 No.16123698
    I'm not sure. I think it'd be interesting to fight back against the darkness without playing Hunter.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:11 No.16123706
    Also, Exalted, any way of getting in touch with you again? Figure I might as well try and say sorry for a couple of things.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:12 No.16123721
    As you can see from the Coils, their method of improving is my mitigating their flaws.

    Basically, the perfect Ordo Dracul would just be a normal bloke with super-powers.
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)22:13 No.16123725
    Possibly the Tzimisce Eldest. In other words, really fucking scary.
    >> Kingsfoil !!/lI/F9eKE8m 08/30/11(Tue)22:13 No.16123726
    Not impossible, but it's tough.

    The only time I've done it, I GMed for my fiancee. That was a fucking awesome game. Deep and soul-searching, and I focused every session about a new facet of her search to become human. Really tough game to run, but it was so worth it when she finally achieved Mortality.

    In fact, I'd say that was the best game I've ever played.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:13 No.16123731
    It's best not to do that when you're a force of darkness, such as a vampire.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:14 No.16123737
    For those wondering why a vampire would experience a gradual stripping of humanity, hopefully this can help put it in this perspective.
    Remember that as a vampire, you are immortal. That is a crucial component. Your body never changes - each night you rise with the same hair, same scars, same fingernail length, same everything as the night of your Embrace. You never change, and yet the world around you changes a little bit each night. Before you know what happened, you've been around for 50 years. You still feel more or less the same, but the mortal society around you has drastically changed, probably 5 distinct times already since your death. Then even sooner, it's been 100 years, and that change in humanity seems even MORE drastic. You might think that you would keep up with the times, sure. But you've been around for 120, or 150, or maybe even 170 years already, and you've seen trends change so many times that you've grown numb to them - they are just something mortals do to occupy their short time on earth. Changes in fashion, language, geography, politics, even technology become irrelevant for a being of such age and wisdom as you. Why should you waste so much of your time on something so trivial?

    By the time you've gotten to this point in your unlife, you've also committed thousands upon thousands of repetitions of an act that makes rape and grand theft seem petty in comparison. You've seen more pain, sadness, suffering and death than several entire generations of people could see.

    Do you really think you could still feel really human?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)22:14 No.16123741
    Do you have AIM? If so, what is it?
    >> Cerebrate Anon 08/30/11(Tue)22:15 No.16123753
    >Play it how you want

    We always played it as a madcap action movie, bursting in with guns blazing and brutally drinking the blood of our victims before they died.

    Shit exploded everywhere. Our Hunter group honestly entertained the idea of capturing a vampire alive and feeding him just enough blood in the basement to keep him regenerating his teeth (the severed fang was our proof of staking) for infinite monies, since we kept blowing up buildings to kill off high-profile Elders, and being unable to locate their fangs in the wreckage.

    The fluff is just that: fluff. The mechanics support any type of game.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:15 No.16123758
    If twilight weren't abject shit it wouldn't be hated must be what you meant to say. The stories, the situations, the characterizations, everything about it was asinine. FFS, there was a book that could have been solved in what? About five seconds with a text message? Yeah, that bit of technology that they used the fuck out of in other books...oh wait, in that book too!

    Please, that series is indefensible. Not as bad as Anita Blake/Sookie Stackhouse, but still pretty fucking bad.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:15 No.16123762
    Most of the supernaturals can fight against the darkness.

    Nothing intrinsically evil about Mages, Sin-eaters, Werewolves, or Changlings.

    Course could always do mortals as well, though I suppose a mortal who KEEPS fighting against the darkness sort of by default morphs into a Hunter.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:17 No.16123777
    'fraid not. I guess you stay away from IRC these days?
    >> Exalted !OOirDpvrkA 08/30/11(Tue)22:19 No.16123802
    Well, right now I'm lurking in the suptg server, if you'd like to give me your name there.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:19 No.16123810
    Exactly. If it actually looked like someone had spent more than five seconds thinking about the story and characterization it wouldn't get the same amount of hate.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:19 No.16123811
    If a Lucifuge is played well he can be an interesting character and not a MY MOM WAS DEMON RAPED CRAWWWLLINNGG INNN MY SKINNN.

    No on believes me. But I'll prove it some day.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:19 No.16123814
    Changeling is darkly comedic too, but mainly I was referring to it on a rules basis, how Benny Hill happens when two vampires meet, and how elders wake up, often with lots of power still, but don't know what the hell happened or what telephones and cars are.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:21 No.16123825
    ...well fuck, if you put it that way, AIDS wouldn't be hated if instead of fucking up your immune system, it made guys cum taste like chocolate.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:21 No.16123833

    A natural consequence as to how the authors foolishly focused on ramping up the angst factor as high as it could go instead of having an interesting game about the ramifications of artificial life.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:22 No.16123838

    And vampires everywhere suddenly flip their fucking shit when Elders wake up.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:23 No.16123849
    WoD games are almost always about the human psyche rather than stuff that intricate.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:25 No.16123889
    That's true, but can be taken for granted.

    Basically, the concept of "vampire and human have a relationship" isn't unsalvageable. If someone rewrote Twilight but made it more nuanced and less... moronic it could be a good book.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:26 No.16123899
    I could never play Promethian because every time I hear "You play a Frankenstein" "So you are like Frankenstein right?" "A Promethian is like a Frankenstein."

    Frankenstein was the man not the monster, which had no name, and yes I know caring about that makes me a HUGE faggot but I just can't help it.

    Consider it a personal flaw.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:26 No.16123900
    what is this benny hill thing?
    >> Indonesian Gentleman 08/30/11(Tue)22:27 No.16123909
    Because usually Elders got their blood so potent they could only feed on vamps. The other vamps were like 'nuoh my blood' and flip shit.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:27 No.16123914
    I tend to say "you play something similar to Frankenstein's monster." is that better, dr mcassclown?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:28 No.16123924
    Believe me, they made that distinction quite clear in the books. Frankenstein's monster is still quite pissed about it.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:29 No.16123933
    Yes, and I apologize to humanity for being the fuck who can't let that go but it's like an OCD tick.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:29 No.16123936
    I guess I take your point...still fairly believe it goes without saying, but then again the massive lack of taste when it comes to popular entertainment is capable of liking anything...
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:31 No.16123967
    You don't really get WoD do you?

    You are placed in a situation with the potential for maximum angst. You're then meant to role-play. Those who give in to the angst are NPCs.

    Your life has been snatched away. You can't connect with anyone else. If you lose control bad thing happen. What do you do?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:33 No.16123980
    Many creators name their creations after themselves.
    >> Benign Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:33 No.16123983
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    I personally like BloodSucking Fiends by Christopher Moore.

    It is quite absurd and funny as hell, but it doesn't stop the character interactions from being real and touching.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:33 No.16123986

    That would be Transhuman: the Machining instead. Frankenstein's monster wasn't supposed to be its own life form, but an artificially created human, which it could only be a pale imitation of, and Promethean reflects that.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:34 No.16123992
    when do we archive this thread? This is an excellent discussion.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:34 No.16123994
    OPs picture got me thinking what a shit-hole Silent Hill would be if it existed in the World of Darkness.

    An already dark reflection of a place in a world that is a dark reflection of the real world.

    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:37 No.16124035
    Nah. In WoD, Silent Hill would be almost normal and dull. Hard to out-creepy what's already creepy.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:37 No.16124041
    Ya but Victor did not, he only ever called it like fiend, demon, ogre, thing, ect.

    The monster was real mad.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:38 No.16124047
    I'm still actually kinda curious about what that Benny Hill thing is? I've heard it said a few times but have no clue what it refers to...
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:38 No.16124056

    Frankenstein's monster was fucked up solely because the power to create life was given to an ignorant and selfish human who could not respect his own creation. Misery made him a fiend. Its like many abusive relationships.

    Actually, the books encourage the non-angsty types (Deniers, who are only mentioned like twice, and Centimani) only as NPCs.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:38 No.16124057
    >which it could only be a pale imitation of,
    Not really. The monster was better than most humans in every way. Sadly he was really ugly,

    I tend to look at Frankenstein less as a story about the horrors of science, and more as an allegory about not seeing things through. Basically, feel free to make a monster, just don't bug out and run away when it wakes up.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:41 No.16124088
    OH GOD WHAT IS THA...oh it's just an armless guy that spits acid, thought it was something bad.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:43 No.16124114
    Also don't be ugly.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:43 No.16124115
    They're basically Prometheans who have decided that becoming human is too hard so they become a monster. They may wrap it up in lies and pretend that they're exulting in their monstrous nature, but ultimately they've just given up.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:44 No.16124127
    Speaking of the Lucifuge, do any of the source books ever explain their mysterious immortal leader lady, or is that up to the ST if he ever wants to flesh that out?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:44 No.16124140
    >Oh hello the-Ah!
    >cue chase scene.
    Basically, when two vampire meet it can end up with the two chasing each other around.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:45 No.16124156
    That lesson doesn't need to be included in novels.
    >> polite sage Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:46 No.16124158
    Ah, thanks.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:47 No.16124169
    To clarify his statement, when two vampires meet their inner predator nature makes them have a supernatural dick comparing contest and one might try to attack the other if he can't control himself.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:47 No.16124173
    to clarify, this is because nWoD vamp has this baby-retarded rule where the first time two vamps meet, they flip the fuck out and try to kill eachother or run like hell from eachother. makes sense, right?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:48 No.16124195

    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:50 No.16124218
    of course its fairly easy to pass those rolls if you arent a mindless beast.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:50 No.16124220
    Not just too hard, but many a created has become a promethean when they sorrowfully discover that humans have problems too, some just as bad as their own, like mortality.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:52 No.16124244
    >makes sense, right?
    yeah actually it kinda does. you got a supernatural beast inside of you that wants to devour the rest of your kind. it makes sense that it sometimes attempts to do so.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:54 No.16124289
    I actually have a question about this

    Now as I recall, one of the rules of the Masquerade is don't feed on other vampires, but older vampires can't feed on anything BUT other vampires correct?

    Am I remembering this wrong or is that rule like "Don't talk about fight club" in that it's casually broken a lot.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:56 No.16124309
    The problem is the way in which it attempts to do this. You flip out and either try to do anything in your power to kill the other vampire or to flee. I wouldn't mind if it just encouraged or rewarded being a bitch.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:56 No.16124324
    Fuck yes Geist.
    Also has the distinction of being the least emo or fatalistic about all of this.

    You know who isn't dead?
    Can YOU guess who instead got upgraded like some giant-mecha halfway through a series?

    You're here to haunt ass and chew bubblegum. and you're all out of ass.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:58 No.16124339
    You're allowed to feed on other vampires. It's encouraged in fact, as it forms vinculum, which is a powerful form of control. However, you're not allowed to diablerise other vampires, which involved draining them dry then sucking out their soul.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:58 No.16124350
    "Oh god, the afterlife is shit, and I can only avoid it by having other people die in my place, and I have an evil ghost that talks to me. But fuck that shit, let's PAAAAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!"
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)22:59 No.16124371
    Gotcha gotcha, soul sucking tends to be frowned upon.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:01 No.16124387
    so your problem is that is forces you to do so instead of rewards you for doing so? why dont we just do away with all frenzy provocations?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:02 No.16124406
    >having a soul

    what did i fucking miss between o and nWoD
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:03 No.16124410
    Unless your a lawyer.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:04 No.16124431
         File1314759866.jpg-(1.07 MB, 1285x1555, BuffyPhoto-001.jpg)
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    This is my Cheiron Group hunter.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:05 No.16124441
    uhh they had souls in both. hence why you can each other vamps souls in both, or for that matter sell them.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:06 No.16124448

    But you're dead. Like, dead dead. You don't have a soul anymore, hell, you're a walking, talking Abyss engine if you believe the Pentacle and the Strix. You're humanity is gone, baby.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:06 No.16124456
    oWoD and nWoD are COMPLETELY different fluff.

    Virtually no similarities between old and new WOD vamps besides them being vampires.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:09 No.16124481
    Pretty much. Sin-Eaters are awesome-tier.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:10 No.16124497
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    This is what I expect from Vampires
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:11 No.16124504
    They have "something" that functions as a crude soul.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:12 No.16124531
    Also, while the Underworld itself may suck, you have friends who can get you out of that shit straightaway.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:13 No.16124538
    There's also the fact that Vampires are meant to be the social splat, but they have too many barriers against being social.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:20 No.16124612
    i do believe you misunderstand what they meant by social. they didnt mean run around loving and fucking everyone as you talk about why you're on team edward.

    they're a splat that has forced itself to come up with hardcoded societal rules and interactions in order to stop themselves from wiping each other out. this results in them actually dealing with each other far more than most other splats have actual reasons too.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:25 No.16124667
    >please /tg/ explain to me why white wolf is so good?
    It's not. It's just that the World of Darkness is not inherently terrible.

    It's success is due to several factors. Among them is that the game system itself is adequate (which on it's own is enough to set it ahead of a lot of RPG systems,) The gothic allure of Vampire: The Masquerade drew a lot of people into RPGs that otherwise would not have considered them, and they kept an aggressive update and release schedule that provides a similar illusion of player support that TSR (and now Hasbro) maintained with their semi-constant content updates.

    But probably the single greatest cause of the great popularity of White Wolfs' games is luck.
    When TSR died, White Wolfs' flagship product already had a relatively recognisable brand name and a gaping void in the market that someone could fill. As far as anyone knew, Wizards of the Coast were going to rape the D&D IP to death, leaving only an overpowered Elmister utra-rare in some future edition of MtG, and the FLGS had a huge chunk of shelf-space to fill.

    Four years later, D&D was back with a vengeance, thanks to a rushed release and the power of the infinite money-engines of Hasbro, but the World of Darkness had gleaned enough time as the best game in town to keep a significant market share, and the rest is history.

    TL;DR it's an ill wind that blows no good.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:27 No.16124677
    Someone archive this.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:29 No.16124701
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    Just going to leave this here


    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:29 No.16124703
    Unfortunately, these days WW seems to be totally disinterested in getting product on store shelves, and most FLGSs are just stopping carrying their lines. If POD works, that's great for online stuff, but terrible for getting new people into the hobby.

    Unless they're relying on the WoD MMO to carry them through it. CCP (their new bosses) might be behind this attitude, and since the takeover their releases have slowed massively.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:30 No.16124714
    Yeah, basically, Death sphere mages are able to fuck with SOMETHING about vamps.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:32 No.16124744
    its kind of hard to get products onto shelves when you've basically stopped printing. it just wasnt generating the type of money they need to continue.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:36 No.16124781
    their releases have slowed massively as they no longer have to drop a book every month to keep the company afloat. this allows them time to actually work on the projects they want. Of course this should result in better editing but fucking white wolf...
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:38 No.16124810
    Yeah, I've been tempted to work at Scribendi just on the off chance I'd get a shot at a WW book.

    Because I'm positive I'd do a better job than whatever online chucklefuck is currently in charge.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:43 No.16124860
    You're thinking more "wraith".
    Becoming a Geist has a few things to it. First, you'll have already had some occult awareness; most of those that become one could already sense death, ghosts or some related tidbits before. You didn't have an imaginary friend because slimer's fucking real, sort of sense.

    Next, you have to be in a condition where you could possibly survive (getting squashed under a cargo container, or pink-misted point-blank in the vitals or face by a shotgun ain't gonna get you a second chance) and have to have extremely high desire for survival. Its called a "bargin" for a reason; it can be refused.

    Geists are more 'alien mind' than necessarily evil, because they're not quite ghost anymore. Its deliberately left vague on their exact nature/history but from what IS stated, they're effectively old entities with no real anchors that have more of a tendency to be associated with some concept. In general however their primary 'deal' is they like keeping living things living and dead things dead. Eating ghosts and/or people is going to really destablize the two of you, not that you can truly split without both of you coming to an end. Only at 1-0 synergy does the geist start acting out like old AD&D Ego weapons, and being able or willing to take over. Most of the time (say, at 7) you just barely get mild feelings that it likes or dislikes some course of action, like the old 'empathy' weapons.

    The biggest problem, really, is that being supernaturally-aware and most advantaged by 'resolving anchors' (as opposed to just eating the fuckers though you CAN do that too) means you quickly get known as the local afterlife IT Helpdesk
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:43 No.16124868
    Imagine if Macho Man Randy Savage got out of his car wreck, back flipped into the Ecto-1, decided he didn't need a proton pack and just piledrives Vigo the Carpathian into the Underworld while wearing the mask of a legendary dead luchadore. That's Geist.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:45 No.16124889
    I prefer to go FINAL FUSION and fist a train into their out-of-phase buttocks
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:47 No.16124916
    Owod vampires definitely, canonically, had souls.

    Nwod is schizophrenic.
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:50 No.16124936
    And this is a good thing, right?
    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:55 No.16124997

    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:55 No.16125007
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    >> Anonymous 08/30/11(Tue)23:57 No.16125016
    Its predecessor, Orpheus, was the X-files mixed with "Dead Like Me" (and removing the fucking aliens ofc). It was oWoD with everything except for ghosts and the underworld removed.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:02 No.16125075
    You do become less-human though as you go with your geist's "whims". Your morality scale is replaced by your sync-ratio with your new other-half-soul.

    Instead of the usual 'humanity' scale, what gets you derangements is a denial of what you have become (an interdimensional diplomat and part-time area-denial superweapon). Doing your best to truly "stay human" and ignore your new, masks-off, unveiled reality, is gonna quickly put you at odds with the half of you that IS an other-worldly entity. You don't necessarily want to follow its every whim, especially the more violent ones, but you need to at least try and follow the rules of world/underworld interaction, and at least give the same level of caring about folks trying to destroy the memories/anchors/existence of that dead dude down the street as if some asshole was scratching your buddy's car.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:02 No.16125079

    I keep hearing good things about Orpheus. Supposedly it would work very well in nWoD as a conspiracy using Hunters and Sin Eaters. I have yet to read, it though.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:09 No.16125139
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    >and since the takeover their releases have slowed massively.
    They claim that the "merger" allows them to finally get off the supplement treadmill. Now they don't need to release sub-par products just to pay their wages, they do it for fun.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:11 No.16125160
    See, I find that argument sort of bogus, because everything that isn't for the main lines has been fucking gold.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:15 No.16125196
    Since like Promethean in 2006.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:18 No.16125224

    That was the creepiest picture out of Montreal by Night, which was possibly the best supplement I had ever read for V:tM. It doesn't help that I'm from the Montreal area, but I can confirm that every bit of history in that book is true. Montreal has a fucked up backstory ripe for any WoD campaign.

    You may now resume your discussions.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:20 No.16125246
    >white wolf does their research
    >people are still surprised by that
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:20 No.16125255

    I don't understand the point of the strapon.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:23 No.16125292

    Bitch got fucked to death in a rave's mensroom urinal.

    Welcome to Montreal. We don't fuck around.

    Unless it's going to kill you.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:23 No.16125295
    Well, some people don't have a peepee like you and daddy. We call those people "girls".
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:40 No.16125456

    Playing a mortal being feasible is one of the main ideas behind Dresden Files. The whole balance between Power and Free Will and all.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:50 No.16125567
         File1314766218.gif-(98 KB, 512x512, 1314209389754.gif)
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    OP is back

    was doing stuff on the side. Ate some roast beef for dinner.

    so what's the power ranking between the books?

    The core: Mortal the shittening seems to be bottom on the bottom tier of power, but unsure about the rest.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)00:57 No.16125638
    Mages are without a doubt at the top of the "pure rape" scale. Geists are a bit behind but not by too much. Changelings are either mid tier or low tier depending on how much you can optimax pledges.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)01:01 No.16125680
    Orpheus is indeed great and was the playable version of Wraith oen had been waiting for.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)01:27 No.16125986
    They didn't do the research, the farmed the writing out to the local LARP community.
    Seriously, that's how it worked in those days.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)01:30 No.16126016
    From most powerful to least:

    Changeling with clever players
    Changeling with straightforward players
    >> Kingsfoil !!/lI/F9eKE8m 08/31/11(Wed)01:30 No.16126019
    Mage >>> Sin-Eaters >> Changelings/Prometheans > Vamps/Werewolves > Tier 3 Hunters >> Tier 1/2 Hunters > Mortals

    Is about right.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)01:34 No.16126055
    I'd say that tier 3 hunters are more powerful than werewolves. Also consider that Changeling power level varies wildly based on whether the character has appropriate specialization and how effective the player is with pacts and talecrafting, and Sin Eaters can vary a bit based on the ingenuity applied in the use of their powers.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)01:49 No.16126234
    I'd say most powerful is a toss-up between Mages and Geists, only because Geists don't risk unmaking themselves when they use their powers. Prometheans, Vampires, Werewolves, Hunters, Mortals. Werewolves are sometimes put below Mortals as a joke, because they're pretty gimp. Changelings are a wild card in that their contracts can theoretically screw over any of the others.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)01:59 No.16126336
    so about the mages.

    how obvious are they in their magic?

    do they sling fireball left and right or are they like warhammer wizards where they melt their faces off for trying to light a match?
    >> Kingsfoil !!/lI/F9eKE8m 08/31/11(Wed)02:00 No.16126344
    It depends. Paradox is a bitch sometimes if they want to be blatant in front of mortals, but if they're in their sanctum anything goes.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)02:02 No.16126361
    It's unwise to be blatant. Reality gets pissy about it.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)02:11 No.16126421

    If you're too obvious in Mage reality starts to fuck up.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)02:15 No.16126460

    Specifically, it almost always starts to fuck *you* up.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)02:25 No.16126537
    Mages are pretty busted. They could fix a lot of it by lowering the cap on their "boosting" abilities, but then again
    >White Wolf

    That said Tier 3 Hunters probably vary the most wildly on power. Some Hunters will have abilities that pretty much shut down an entire splat. On the note of Mages, there is at least one ability in the Knights of Saint George conspiracy that we've deployed with absolute brutality to bring down mages one at a time. I forget the name, but basically you get a guy to cut the shit out of himself, then cover his wounds up with a coat or something and casually walk within 5 yards of a Mage. Mage will then lose access to a scalable amount of his spells, at which point the rest of the team pops out and rapes the mage.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)05:07 No.16128015
    My DM was telling me about this one time when he ran a Mage game. Newbie was lobbing fireballs and doing all sorts of stupid, obvious shit, and reality was getting pissed off. His character died when two houses body-checked him.
    >> Örpheüs Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)07:29 No.16129074
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    The complete publishing:
    Core rulebook which presents the setting, and each splatbook being a new chapter in the metaplot/campaign plus introducing new "classes"/spectres/mechanics.
    Oh, and there's a surprisingly well-written and edited fanbook in there too.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)07:43 No.16129150
    Story goes something like this:
    In ancient times, mages lived in a magical utopia like Gods.
    It wasn't enough for them.
    So they gathered enough power to ascend into the heavens and overthrow whatever dwelled there, so they could live as true Gods.
    In order to stop anyone from trying to usurp or replace them, they proceeded to fuck reality over to the point where it views magic as dangerous, foreign bacteria.
    And paradox is the white blood cells coming along to fuck up said bacteria.

    If reality clues on to the fact that your spells are in fact, magical, it will usually do everything in its power to eliminate you. It's usually pretty fucking successful, too.

    In case you can't tell, Mage is a setting all about POWER and how to use it.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)09:33 No.16129647
    I take it this is in the new edition of the WoD games.... The old edition had Mages as potentially the most powerful beings in existence. You didn't have 'spells' you remade reality to your whim.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)10:02 No.16129768
    What the list of books for hunter?
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)13:41 No.16131455
    The limited lines benefited from being just that. They were forced to cover everything in as few books as possible, so they didn't have supplement bloat.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)13:45 No.16131498

    Too many to list, you can find them all here:

    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)13:48 No.16131537
    Core (Hunter: The Vigil)
    Vampire hunters (Night Stalkers)
    Werewolf hunters (Spirit Slayers)
    Mage Hunters (Witch Finders)
    Serial killers (Slasher)
    Horror Recognition Guide.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)15:14 No.16132308
    I highly recommend Horror Recognition Guide. One of the best fluff books I've ever read, and any sort of GM/ST that likes to throw weird monsters and places at their players will benefit from reading it.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:19 No.16132907
    Anyone just run a Core game of nWoD. No superpowered PCs, no crazy-ass organizations and resources like Hunter: just the core rules, in a scary situation. The Curse on Hill Manor module from this year's Free RPG day is one such example.

    is it viable? Or does it always end in Rocks Fall &etc
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:20 No.16132929
    It's viable, just don't expect happy endings.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:20 No.16132932
    Mortals only is widely regarded as the best form of WoD.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:25 No.16132984

    Now with 100% more SPARTAAAA
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:28 No.16133002
    >me and my buddies
    There's a reason most of the books aren't geared towards "mortals only".
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:29 No.16133019
    Spartan version of WoD? Whoa...

    how come we've never heard of it before?
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)16:42 No.16133182

    Yes, but if you are going for a longer campaign you may wish to use Hunter (especially at the Tier 1 level) since Hunters have a bit more going for them and there's no real reason not to use professions and tactics.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)17:12 No.16133515
    Could you adapt WoD to other genres other than the canonical setting? Like, say film noir? Or a modern spy thriller a-la the Syriana movie?
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)17:13 No.16133533

    Since this thread is being archived, I might as well port over some useful NPCs for future generations

    >tl~dr, WoD in ancient times

    Anyway, coming up with NPC's and I decided to make a spartan captain and worked out his stats using armory reloaded, and holy crap. Here is the basics:

    Mental- 3, Physical- 4, Social- 3
    Athletics- 3, Brawl- 4, Weaponry- 4

    Health- 8, Willpower- 6, Speed- 13
    Defense- 3, Armor 2/2

    Merits- Spear Fighting 4, 'Heavy Sword' 3, Sword and Shield 5

    >Dice Pools with Spear
    All-Out Attack w/ Willpower- 20(9A) Def 0
    Standard Attack- 11(9A) Def 11/5 Strike First
    Defensive Attack- 9(9A) Def 13/5 Strike First
    Defensive Stance- N/A Def 16/5
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)17:40 No.16133796

    There's no reason NOT to do noir or spy games with WoD. nWoD is more a toolbox than a unified setting. You may have to adapt some of the weapons to be period correct, or come up with a few new pieces of gear for spies, but it's really not difficult.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)17:45 No.16133846
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    Well, widely on the official WW fora. None of my friends role-play.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)17:55 No.16133941
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    We played that module on Free RPG day. It was fun, though the bit where the ghost tells you everything that goes on is a bit railroad-y

    Are there any other White Wolf modules a-la Pathfinder's adventure paths?
    I'd love to get my hands on some more, especially since I don't have the time to build my own campaigns

    Pic related - it's the kind of WoD Hunter game I'd run if I had the time to plan it
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)18:01 No.16133997
    Search for sas in the /tg/ section.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)20:46 No.16135727
    I just wanna thank you! This kicks ass!
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)20:57 No.16135864
    Nope, they really did state that they intended for the vampire forte to be social, and the werewolf forte to be physical.

    >hell, you're a walking, talking Abyss engine if you believe the Pentacle and the Strix

    That's just mages being retarded. Vamps have nothing to do with paradox, ghouling a mortal makes it so that they can't cause unbelief anymore, and mages are perfectly aware of Stygia, Pandemonium, and the Inferno, all hellish netherworlds more suited to be the origin of vampires than a place whose only similarity with vampires is that "they're both evil, derp derp"
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)21:30 No.16136176
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    Holy shit, just started reading
    us Core. FUCK this is good.

    A WoD setting where everyone isn't (iherently) leaning towards misanthopy, assholishness and obtuse metaplot bullshit which clogged down the original oWoD Vampire & Werewolf.

    Face it: it's pretty much pic related: the RPG
    >> Kingsfoil !!/lI/F9eKE8m 08/31/11(Wed)21:34 No.16136207
    Yeah, Orpheus is some good shit.
    >> Anonymous 08/31/11(Wed)21:46 No.16136322
    Do you think White Wolf might revive it for their nWoD line. Some anons mentioned that they were bringing back Mummy to nWoD; could this also work for Orpheus
    >> Anonymous 09/01/11(Thu)02:26 No.16139042
    Just wanted to say that personally I love the Mage book. Yeah, you can be a powerful bastard throwing fireballs left and right, but if you don't have a LOGICAL explanation for doing all that shit, reality will blue bolt your ass faster than you can say, "magic missile."

    To me it encourages you to use both forms of gaming (roleplay and rollplay) to fail, succeed, or go FUCK YEAH I'M AWESOME.

    Also, so long as you keep your morality scale in check (I think it's called Pride or Ego or whatever) when you do start throwing spells around, reality doesn't get as pissed at you as it should. And you can pass off as human pretty well compared to the other templates, unless something supernatural shows up and senses your magical powers (which if they do means either you blow them up or run like hell, depending upon the situation).
    >> Anonymous 09/01/11(Thu)08:25 No.16141132
    I'm writing a World of Darkness campaign so my friends and girlfriend will finally give in and play a game with me. Being I've never played before and I can't find any places online for resources to help WRITE a campaign, like tutorials or a video of people playing, this thread has helped me IMMENSELY with finding the proper tone for a WoD game.

    Thank you, /tg/.
    >> Silver Seraphim 09/01/11(Thu)08:36 No.16141185
    I think for more juicy setting he should go for oWoD. Vampire: the Masquerade,
    Werewolf: the Apocalypse,
    Hunter: the Reckoning,
    Mage: the Ascension
    Changeling: the Dreaming.
    >> Anonymous 09/01/11(Thu)11:24 No.16142224
    Geist is the closest equivalent.

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