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  • File : 1316630810.jpg-(45 KB, 550x417, Arabian horseman.jpg)
    45 KB Plans for Warhammer Armies: Araby Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)14:46 No.16375960  
    After this thread: >>16373857

    We thought we could maybe do better than the other fan 'dexes, and so we'll brainstorm in this thread what the general themes of the army book should be first.

    So, to start off with, we know that Araby is a desert land based off of the Islamic Middle East and myths about genies, flying carpets, etc, all Arabian Nights stuff. It's got a few bits of official history, from places like Warmaster, Dreadfleet and general background. It occupied Estalia and then had a crusade knock down its front door, and its merchants are known far and wide.

    As far as the army tone goes, what do we want to achieve though? Humans with light cavalry and powerful djinn support?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)14:57 No.16376038
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    >Well, I'm the Sheik of Araby
    >Your love belongs to me
    >Well, at nights when you're asleep
    >Into your tent I'll creep

    >The stars that shine above
    >Will light our way to love
    >You rule this world with me
    >I'm the Sheik of Araby

    >Well, I'm the Sheik of Araby
    >Your love belongs to me
    >Oh, at nights when you're asleep
    >Into your tent I'll creep

    >The stars that shine above
    >Will light our way to love
    >You rule this world with me
    >I'm the Sheik of Araby
    >Well, I'm the Sheik of Araby
    >Well, I'm the Sheik of Araby
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)14:57 No.16376042
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    One of the key points about Araby is that it is a far-off, mystical land, but one that can be very easily accessible by a lot of people in the Old World with the necessary resources as it's a trading hub.

    So, it can get blackpowder equipment as well as poisons and devices from across the world. The winds of magic blow weaker there though, and they require special items to trap magic inside, such as lamps. So we have a technologicaly competent, magically weak but magical item-heavy army at first glance.

    Jaffar semi-related.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:00 No.16376059
    I was thinking about them as a highly mobile very tactical army. Flanking, scouts maybe even mounted infantry.

    As for the Djinn I think the arabyan magic has to be really diferent from the magic of other armies. AFAIK one of the reasons why arabians use djiins is because the winds of magic dont blow so strongly there and they have to tap into the magic of the spirits of their land.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:01 No.16376066
    He is totally related, any caster you take with your army should have a ability that lets him back stab a hero in order to get some bonus.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:03 No.16376079
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    I remember that in Araby people bind demons and spirits to objects rings, weapons, lamps (djinns), carpets, etc.

    Also, fuck yeah war elephants
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:05 No.16376104
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    I can't contribute on the magical/warhammer side, but I can on the historical inspiration side.

    But I got class in 30 minutes for 2:30 hours so I'll post a bunch of stuff right now, then more later if I can.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:07 No.16376118
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:07 No.16376120
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    I'll be posting the other miniatures from warmaster, just because.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:07 No.16376123
    Yes - the elephants in arabyan warmaster army are said to come from ind. Blackpowder weapons should be reserved for the welthier people and maybe their guards(lord/hero and maybe option for 1 special/rare unit).
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:08 No.16376125
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:08 No.16376132
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    Hero on elephant
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:09 No.16376137
    Shouldn't be magically weak, just different. And you should all go download and read Blood on the Reik, has some nice portraits of Araybans.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:09 No.16376138
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:10 No.16376143
    Looks Turkish to me.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:10 No.16376145
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:11 No.16376161
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    I think it would be good for customization if the demon/spirit chained to a lamp should keep it's original form for a while and slowly becomin the "classic" djinn of the image.

    Also wizards
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:12 No.16376167
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    That's neither yours or anybody's business, it's just the Turk's.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:13 No.16376180
    Religion shouldent be too important. I would like to avoid the jihadi/religious fanatic image. Islamlike religion and religious tolerance (so they can trade with enyone).Priest are teologians-philosophers instead of typical warhammer frooting maniacs. religious debatates instead of bloodbaths.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:13 No.16376182
    actually in the Dread Fleet they seem to have an araby ship that has a genie blowing its sails full and pushing it forward while a Djinn searches out the side to burn other ships.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:14 No.16376190
    Ok, so let's figure out things separately.

    *Background: This is required as it informs the rest of the army. Also, how much historical information do we want to draw on? Hashishin, Janissaries, the Crusades?

    *Magic: It shouldn't be too unique, but flavourful (maybe a footnote special rule about magic being weaker on home ground?)

    *Magical Items: These should help boost magic and maybe house djinn 'bodyguards', etc? I have an idea that these would maybe be like Tau drones from 40K.

    *Characters: Spellcaster, mighty hero, great general, we can sort those later.

    So to start off, background and inspiration - what do we want for this? I'd say fantasy Arabs in style with a bit of Ottomans thrown in, so then there can some janissary/elite guards, otherwise boring infantry with some very capable cavalry. Cool fantasy units can be covered after this bit I suppose?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:14 No.16376191
    Light Cav would be rather good. Perhaps make them better at flanking? So Araby wins battles by outflanking the fuck out of the enemy to make up for lighter armour.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:16 No.16376205

    Very good point, let's be sensible about this. I don't think priests should even go into battle, but that's my opinion.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:16 No.16376206
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    Spearmen (The moon is an importan symbol for what I can see)


    This is all I have about fluff

    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:16 No.16376209
    Backstabbing Visars are needed.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:19 No.16376233
    Ok, so themes of the Araby army - fast and effective cavalry. What about infantry?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:21 No.16376248
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:24 No.16376277
    Ok, what kind of cavalry should we be thinking about then?

    *Horse Archers - light cavalry, Parthian-shot style guys.

    *Camels - maybe with some form of firearm, even if just as an upgrade? A jingal/jezzail would be cool.

    *'Knights' - just like Brets, Empire, etc.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:24 No.16376279

    I agree


    From the bowmen page

    >The men of Araby place great faith in the bow and all the cities of Araby maintain strong bodies of archers. Although firearms are known in Araby they are nowhere near as common or as advanced as those used in the Old World and are rarely issued to common troops.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:26 No.16376293
    how about an option for mounted infantry?
    infantry rides mules ,worse quality horses and camels to keep up with the highly mobile cavalery and dismount before battle. in the rules it could works as an extra move before the begining of battle with higher move value.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:26 No.16376294
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    Araby guards
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:27 No.16376307

    I'd say Cav Archers that are Light Cav that take no penalty for moving and shooting, likely with BS 4, as it's a big part of their culture. Battle plan with them: Troll everything.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:27 No.16376310
    Types of heavy cavalry

    Camel heavy cavalry elite, 3+ save 7m, but gets hatred against any enemy cavalry unit, has heavy scimitars which strike with +1 strength but at -1 initiative. Shields, heavy armor and mounted on a camel, stubborn, this would be a special choice.

    Heavy Cavalry, regular heavy cavalry on horseback with a 2+ save, option for lances or heavy scimitars. also special
    For core
    some light cavalry
    light armor shield, horse, 4+ armor save with shield and spear and javelins.

    Fast cavalry also for core
    Light armor, horse, javelins or bows, fast cavalry.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:28 No.16376316
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    Araby knights

    >Horses are highly prized in Araby amongst both the sultans of the coast and the sheiks of the inland deserts. The Arabians are rightfully proud of their cavalry. They are ornately equipped with long lances, tall helms, and glittering armour.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:28 No.16376318

    A Vanguard move with something like 'Mounted Infantry: The vanguard move of all Araby infantry is based on movement 6 rather than 4'
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:29 No.16376329
    Camel riders

    >Camel riders are brave and notoriously savage warriors who navigate their way across the shifting sands of Araby by an uncanny instinct unfathomable and mysterious to mere city dwellers. They are guided as much by their knowledge of the deep desert as by their desert-born mounts and, some would say, by their taste for blood!
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:30 No.16376339
    I imagine the bulk of their infantry are probably spearmen, with elite "heavy" infantry or fanatics providing a heavy punch for their footsloggers. Bows everywhere, maybe some light skrmishers to represent desert tribesmen. Cavalry is a mix of heavy and light. Probably excellent light cavalry, with decent heavy cavalry and elephants as special units. Maybe a Janissary unit that uses firearms or maybe camel-gunners.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:30 No.16376341
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:31 No.16376349

    Reroll difficult terrain? Or maybe frenzied.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:31 No.16376351
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    Desert riders

    >The deep deserts of Araby are home to fierce nomads whose swift riders are the best light cavalry in all the land. The cities of the coats also maintain bodies of light cavalry for scouting and patrols - but all agree the riders of the desert of the finest and most dashing.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:35 No.16376373
    elephants as hero mounts and rare as howdah and gun tower elephants would be awesome.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:35 No.16376382
    they should get stubborn.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:37 No.16376391
    Hmm...sorta seeing this so far as a 'divide and conquer' army. Smash the crap out of the enemy cavalry with camel, volley the crap out of infantry/outflank like crazy.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:37 No.16376397
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    And flying carpets. I think these are for wizards and rich people, but what >>16375202 said is awesome too.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:39 No.16376408
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    dont think we'll have any fanatics - the reall contrast to other warhammer armies would be that arabyan army would be less(or not at all) religiously centered.like the idea of skirmishers- maybe armed with thrown weapons like jevelin or those big african throwing knifes(counts as throwing axes) that they throw before atacking the enemy. maybe with an option to upgade them to naphta grenades.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:41 No.16376425
    Janissary corps -
    Special infantry with handguns, heavy armor and halberd/GW choice
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:42 No.16376430
    flying carpets as rare would be cool,
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:42 No.16376432

    nampha grenades would be good. Perhaps allow the front rank to toss them before the fight starts, with it counting for combat res because they are so shit scary?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:46 No.16376462
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    About relationships:

    -Araby is famous for it's merchants (managing to trade with the southland lizardmen)

    -They trade with the old world, but I don´t know how it would be like after the crusades.

    -They are fairly close to Ulthuan, I guess they trade with the high elves too.

    -They are neighbors with the tomb kings
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:47 No.16376467
    arabyan guards should be the generals bodyguard unit and come in many flavors.They're the elite slave infantry, the janissarys. In the warmaster they can come from many diferent sources like the the Dread Daughters of Tariq from the Land of Assassins and the Silent Guard of Eunuch Mountain. they could be a highly coustomisable unit that is there to fit generals needs- many options for diferent weapons maybe even an option for buying them special rules like cause fear(for dread daugthers) or stubborn/fearless.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:49 No.16376491
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    THIS as a rare choice. Superheavy modular bombard
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:52 No.16376509
    immobile great cannon that can damage two models per rank in infantry and cavalry units.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:54 No.16376530
    I dont think the trade stopped, suposedly arabyans hated the guy who atacked estalia for his tyrany more than they hated the invading armies. besides they are much more comerce focused than other factions and wouldent stop the trade. maybe even bretonians wouldent want to trade with them more than arabyans not wanting to trade with bretonians
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:55 No.16376538
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    >This particular Maneater is from Araby, a distant land of sun and sand, where he has picked up a huge scimitar and a vicious punch dagger. He has also taken to wearing a turban on his head - Ogres aren't particularly fond of sunburn.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:55 No.16376544
    but bretonnians love trade, trade and colonization.

    how else would the nobels get all their valuables.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:58 No.16376562
    The Brets actually got a lot of loot from just raiding the shit out of Araby during the crusade and hauling it back. I'd like to think they later sold it all back to Araby at inflated prices.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)15:59 No.16376578
    Most nobles have steady income (peasants work-90% goes to nobles) + loot and little expences(eg. bowmen are paid 1 coper coin if they survive the battle, men at arms have to pay the noble for their food and beds and the peasant who invented the trebuchet got 2 copper coints and a fat pig for it from the king)
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:05 No.16376629
    So i guess Araby will be the "Speed" army of the game?
    between the Camels, the Flying Carpets & the usual horses i can see them playing something like D.Eldars
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:06 No.16376643
    >I'd like to think they later sold it all back to Araby at deflated prices.
    lots of bretonians were selling the stuff they robbed many had no idea how much it was worth also arabian merchants are the masters of haggle
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:08 No.16376654

    Also, what about nomads that scout and can maybe ambush in a manner similar to beastmen?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:13 No.16376705
    I remember reading that arabyan horses are descended from elven steeds. would the arabyan horses be diferent form other human horses in game terms? have a special rule like the bretonian ones or diferent stats?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:16 No.16376729
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    Lords and heroes:

    >emirs and sheiks
    >sorcerers (optional familiar?)
    >special characters


    >desert riders


    >arabyan knights
    >camel riders
    >arabyan guards (very customizable? >>16376467 )


    >elephants (to the guy who sai they bring them from Ind, it seems that they come from the southlands)
    >flying carpets bombers
    >djinn (a man carrying the lamp and protected by some soldiers?)
    >that fuckhuge cannon?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:22 No.16376794

    Hashashin/Assassins as a special, a bit like like gutter runners? Otherwise maybe as a special character, but that makes them a bit too much like the Skaven/Dark elf type.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:29 No.16376860

    Emirs and sheikhs are obvious, as are sorcerors, who I think should get djinn familiars/bodyguards.

    Spearmen and bowmen, again somewhat obvious. Desert riders can be armed with a bow a bit like Kislevite steppe archers, but what about nomads? How are they special?

    The Arabyan Guard should have high leadership/be stubborn, and the customisable thing sounds good. Maybe make them 0-1 to represent their elite status?

    Liking the rares, but how would the djinn work? As a monster with some low-level wizard handler maybe?

    I'd also say maybe some boring ol' ordinary cannon/mortars to give some variety.

    Also the assassins - maybe that's too much Assassin's Creed coming through though.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:31 No.16376872
    I'm ok with everything I havent mentioned here
    skirmishers ,2 hand weapons(?) and a a thrown weapon- either jevelin throwing axe or naphta bomb

    >camel riders
    are they shooty or close combat oriented?
    >arabyan guards
    start with hand weapon and ligth armour can buy heavy armour, shield, seccond hand weapon, heavy weapon, halberd, handgun

    howdah for the character and guards or a cannon
    >flying carpets bombers
    fuck yeah! bows and poisoned bombs
    sould be sorcerers mount
    >that fuckhuge cannon?
    sounds too much like the Hellcannon
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:35 No.16376902
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    About the Desert Raiders.
    i'm not sure if in WHFB there's any need for something like this, but in the Warmaster PDF you can found this
    . Desert Riders. Desert Riders have a shooting range of only
    15cm, however they can shoot all round - ie behind or to the
    side as well as to their front. Just measure the range from any
    stand edge either front, side or rear. Desert Riders can shoot at
    enemy charging them from any direction.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:35 No.16376907
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    >but what about nomads? How are they special?

    Well, someone earlier suggested them as ambushers/skirmishers, and it would be nice to give the option of a full arabyan desert army.

    >I'd also say maybe some boring ol' ordinary cannon/mortars to give some variety.

    Gunpowder is rare in Araby, also it was suggested as an upgrade for the arabyan guards

    Also, mounts for lords

    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:36 No.16376913
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    Guys, guys, please don't make any heavy cavalry (knight like) with 2+c save. You cannot constantly wear plate armor or heavy chain mail in desert climate.
    Look at the Crusades, the Arabs were all about speed and mobility. When they met Crusaders they were usually chopped into pieces in direct, frontal combat, .

    Also, make those BS 4 mounted archers elite. (and BS 3 normal ones) Something like the Knights of Inner Circle from VI ed. Empire.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:37 No.16376920
    well there is a place in araby called the Land of Assassins - ther's where the sultans guard unit of dread daugthers comes from

    also thieves? Al-Haikk is known as the City of Thieves
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:38 No.16376932
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    So assassins as another upgrade for arabyan guards? I'm ok with this.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:39 No.16376934
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    I agree.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:40 No.16376951
    >Met the crusaders in direct combat.
    Whatchu talking 'bout willis?
    Arab military tradition clashed with European in a way that meant neither one could optimally use their preferred tactics.
    Also plate mail fell out of favor fairly quickly in the crusading kingdoms.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:42 No.16376967

    Liking the nomads, think they should be scout-ish too. Nothing too special, but useful as a speed bump or to annoy a flank.

    Camel riders should be shooty, but against horses maybe have a bonus (as in many games, horses not so keen on camels).

    Agree on the hellcannon thing, not thought of that, unless it's a special character thing - a giant magical cannon with a master gunner? That would be cool, on a big base like the Anvil of Doom.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:44 No.16376984
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    >but what about nomads? How are they special?

    Some tribes used to ride into battle with their women screaming and cursing at them, telling them that they'd get no fuck and a kick to the ass if they'd show any signs of cowardiness during the fight.

    Make that a special unit. A camel with a Palanquin. The nomad cavalry breaks easily, but the women under the palanquin can make them bounce back to battle by acting as a rallying point. So using them's basically a bit like playing pinball - attack, have them turned away, have a camel-riding women stop them and holy shit, they now stand somewhere where they can strike somebody's flanks!
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:45 No.16376990
    that what all the volumnious arabian robes are for- they protect the armour form getting hot in the sun obviously no plate armour but heavy chainmail could work - but only for 2 units(1 cavalry 1 infantry) both special choises
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:47 No.16377000

    Ok, so make a cannon/mortar 0-1? It's rare, but not unknown. The armies of the sultans still need siege trains and it would show off how wealthy they were, etc.

    As far as knights go, I think 3+ knights for knights is fine, not making them super-heavy but capable of charging home effectively.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:47 No.16377004
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    Jarids for nomads/desert raiders/camel raiders?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:49 No.16377016
    >Look at the Crusades, the Arabs were all about speed and mobility. When they met Crusaders they were usually chopped into pieces in direct, frontal combat, .

    What they themselves saw was HOLY SHIT HEAVY ARMOUR AND LANCES! WE NEED THAT SHIT ASAP. And so they adopted it.
    They could always hire turks or ally with mongols to get them horse archers, but heavy armour and lancing had to be payed for and trained with.

    And about the firearms thing... I'd say something like a unit with lots of armour and guns that's kinda acting like a bunch of dwarfs. Would reflect the rarity and the fact that common troops do not get'em.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:52 No.16377037

    Some elite unit then? Janissary/Mamluk/Ghulams? Those are some words we could throw out there for now as they 'feel right'. Maybe just 'Guard handguns'?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:52 No.16377039
    I'm really against firearms being a huge thing, apart from the occasional jannisary-like unit.
    Arabs did archery, cavalry and the ottomans did fuckhueg guns.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:53 No.16377049
    I think this is covered with the Janissary/Guards, considerating that the Normal Janissary is actualy childs captured in battles and converted to islam.
    that could be diverses races & specializations
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:55 No.16377069
    thieves could be counted as nomad skirmishers with throwing knifes/axes - ther's no much place for stealing bags during combat...maybe the skirmishers could have a special rule that makes them stop after killing the enemy unit to loot the corpses - nomads are pore people and as auxiliary troops dont get much money so they want to be sure they get their share in loot
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:57 No.16377078

    That could get fiddly. Maybe just say that 0-1 units of archers can have handguns instead to represent their rarity? It's a simple way to show that gunpowder is rare to them, and doesn't require an elite guard unit to take a step back from front-line fighting to pick up some guns.

    I still think some form of big gun should be rare though. A cannon or mortar isn't overpowering and would provide some nice long-range support, and in small numbers is background-friendly.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)16:59 No.16377101
    I just want to point out that the Skaven jezzails are an adaptation of a design from Araby. Araby should have terrifying snipers, yo.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:00 No.16377107
    The point is "don't make arbabian knights with 2+ save" I think.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:01 No.16377113
    The army needs a siege engine. Even bretonians got one. The elephant mounted cannon doesnt count - it would probably have to be small . I think the big turkish cannon could work.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:02 No.16377119
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    Since we are just beginning, should we archive this thread just in case? It would be good to save this brainstorming for future reference.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:04 No.16377139

    I still think a master-gun that fires magical shot should be a special character, along with its master-gunner. I'm basing this off of the master-gunner Urban who was present at the siege of Constantinople in 1453. It's also sort of original?

    Otherwise, just go for a cannon/mortar for a siege engine. It's simple to implement.

    Also, let special characters have jezzails maybe? Otherwise let leaders in units of bowmen have them.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:08 No.16377165
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    +1 internet to the clever guy. Also, I like Al-Muktar's Desert Dogs, they've got the perfect look for what we're after (obviously).

    Pic sort of related - that guy basically has a jezzail (I know, it's a long rifle).

    How does one archive a thread?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:09 No.16377173
    Just a minor point- i think we should stop calling skirmishers nomads- its confusing because it brings the image of cavalry and those guys are supposed to be infantry. also they can come form many diferent sourcess not jus desert tribes- they can be thieves or corsairs
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:20 No.16377286

    Again, how would one go about archiving this thread? Many thanks!


    Sensible. Maybe call the desert cavalry nomads? I'd say that fits better. The light infantry could be Azabs/Thieves/Corsairs, we can think that up later. For now the *feel* is important over the little details.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:21 No.16377306

    I'll try to do it right now.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:22 No.16377323
    Have the Gods of Araby been mentioned anywhere in Warhammer canon? And if not, should it draw upon the 'standard old world pantheon' (as seen in Empire/Bretonia/Tilea) minus thier region-specific deities?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:23 No.16377328

    I think they are monotheists
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:24 No.16377338
    skaven jezzails are a much upgraded version compared to the standart arabian ones. I remember reading about arabian jezzails in one of 2ed WHRP books and have a vague memory that they were worse than hochland rifles.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:25 No.16377339
    Special Characters (Need a Saladin like character)

    Archers (one unit may be given guns)
    Nomad Horsemen

    Flying Carpets
    Camel Riders

    Elephant with fuckhuge cannon turret on top
    Fuckhuge cannon
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:25 No.16377350

    According to Lexicanum:

    >Arabians worship a single god, who is manifested on the world by his chosen prophets.

    So Warhammer Allah.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:26 No.16377358

    Not actually sure about this, anyone got any sources? They do have a lot of moon imagery.


    Also, a million blessings upon your house, o noble one!
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:30 No.16377406
    why no spear men?
    why archers with guns?
    why no sultan guard?
    why elephants twice?
    why djiin not as sorcerors mount?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:31 No.16377429
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    Cammel Riders should be a Special, and you have a Hero that makes them Core
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:33 No.16377445

    That can all be fixed and fitted in to start with.

    Actually, I think one important question is how many choices does an army book have 'on average', and then we should work from there - having some guidelines/constraints can be good for the creative process.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:33 No.16377450
    Would a Roc work for an Araby 'monstrous mount' choice?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:37 No.16377504
    i seriously think it should be a Giant Elephant
    you know
    A Mamuk
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:39 No.16377531
    Here's a basic list of some things that could go in the list, these can be brainstormed and 'pruned' out as we go along, but for now:

    Special Characters - some ideas include a Saladin like character/giant magical cannnon with master gunner/a super-merchant (Crazy Hassan-esque, but not a straight copy!)

    Skirmishers (thieves/assassins?)
    Archers (one unit may be given guns)
    Nomad Horsemen

    Elite Guard Infantry
    Flying Carpets
    Camel Riders
    Giant Eagles/Rocs

    Elephant with fuckhuge cannon turret on top
    Fuckhuge cannon
    Ordinary Cannon/Mortar
    Djinn with handler


    Cool idea, I've put it in as a special, and it would be a cool possibility as a mount.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:40 No.16377540
    Someone mentioned fan-made sourcebooks for WHFR 2ed.
    About Tilea I think.
    Can anybody point me where I could find them?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:41 No.16377557
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    Allright, thread already archived in suptg, remember to vote!
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:42 No.16377570
    I think its 4 on average for the core with some armies having 5 and some 3 the special and rare seem to be 3 on average
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:42 No.16377573
    >a super-merchant (Crazy Hassan-esque, but not a straight copy!)
    Mad Kareem is born
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:45 No.16377606
    So Core is think is pretty well
    In my opinion we should take the Elephant from the Special and joint with the Rare one
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:46 No.16377616
    No whirling dervishes?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:46 No.16377618
    Araby fandex brainstorming
    vote up
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:46 No.16377622

    Yes, flying carpets as well
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:49 No.16377655
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    Just for you, have fun with it and post in WHFRP threads more!


    Alas I have to be going now, work day tomorrow, etc. I'll be around tomorrow to brainstorm more, I think we got some good work done here people. Have a flying camel (no, I am NOT suggesting it as a unit!).


    What is this voting of which you speak?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:52 No.16377684

    See >>16377618

    Upvote the thread to secure it's place in the archive a downvoted thread will be erased after a while
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:52 No.16377692
    look here
    click vote->vote for(thread needs 3 votes to be archived)
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:53 No.16377705
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:54 No.16377708
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    Many thanks. Get voting people! Let's get it to +10 if possible?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:57 No.16377746
    I'm Not Surprised
    Mad Kareem sold me one last week
    mad people these arabians
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:59 No.16377773
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    posting some arabyans form blood on reik
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)17:59 No.16377779
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:00 No.16377791
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    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:01 No.16377806
    Ok i think we should workout in the stats of the Core guys at least the ones we decided it
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:10 No.16377937
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    Thank You so much!
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:10 No.16377942
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    everything I could find about Araby in my 2 ed WHFB books
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:14 No.16377988
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    Awesome, thanks
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:18 No.16378030
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    some fluff about araby from the blood on the reik
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:38 No.16378207
    So we'll make them like Religious Fanatic?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)18:40 No.16378225

    Dude, read the post just above yours.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:02 No.16378464
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    Oh ok, my mistake
    totally missed the Godless part
    please accept this Odalisque as a act of forgiveness
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:06 No.16378515
    What's interesting is are they godless whan comparred to a polyteists from the empire (monoteists), godless because they dont seem to be overly religious (compared to the masses of fanatics in the old world) or are they really atheists.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:06 No.16378518
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    Well, to be fair they are not exactly godless, it is said that they are monotheists, but since everywhere else people are religious fanatics with warrior priests, to them they look like a godless people

    Odalisque accepted.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:08 No.16378540
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:12 No.16378580
    why no knights in special?

    why no spearmen in core?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:14 No.16378598

    Because it's an inferior list, look at the others.

    Also, grand vizier for commander
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:19 No.16378651
    the fuck huge cannon is best as a special character.

    Perhaps a canon that either, drops a large blast that only scatters likes a cannon ball, (second misfire means shell is a dud but still bounces like a regular cannon ball), hits two models per rank (but with shorter range), or a shot that bounces twice in a row.

    giant eagles are rare in a high elf list
    Flying carpets i think should be rare.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:20 No.16378662
    Would an Arabyan philosopher-preist work better as a counterpart to the Imperial Engineer then to the Warrior-priest, I wonder? Providing a very mild bonus to morale and being almost a liability in combat, but posessing enough insight into the nature of the world and creation to, say, divine new saltpetre compounds that increase the firepower of any gunpowder weaponry he is attatched to, or to build vast glass discs to convert and concentrate the rays of the sun into a scorching point of light that fries enemy ships/troops?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:24 No.16378709
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    I think arabyan priestsdon´t go to war. they are scholars and philosophers, nothing more.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:28 No.16378762
    I'm kind of against the 0-1 bowmen with handguns unit. Handguns are expensive in araby and having them is a as much about the prestige as usefullness. They would be given only to the elite troops like some wealthy guys personal guard.

    Djinn should always have a magician handler, so I dont see them as unit type and more as mages mount. Actually I think that every magician should have an enslaved spirit, even if most of them would'nt be represented on the battlefiled with a separate model(or maybe they would?). Arabian magic is all about catching elemental (more than the classic 4 elements?djinn coresponding with the winds of magic?djin of iron=lore of metal?) spirits and enchanting them into material objects-eg. the flying carpets have aerial spirits bound to them. I would also guess that death magic is forbiden (because of the tomb king neighbouts).
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:33 No.16378804

    I have already said that customized arabyan guards should the only ones with guns (maybe jezzails in rare)

    The sorcerers enslave demons as well from what I read in the Liber chaotica
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:40 No.16378852
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    didnt read Liber Chaotica but elementals/djinn could be considered as deamons
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:48 No.16378922
    A few ideas.
    The Lord choice can have a range of special sycophants that give him bonuses/penalties. The Ambitious Visir, the Loyal Eunuch, the Storytelling wife, the Hashashin Lord, the Harem Mistress, etc.
    A Sinbad-Inspired hero with something like a flying ship, or VERY magic weapon.
    I like the Roc as a mount for a Lord Choice. Not as hitty as other monsterous mounts, but gives him a huge movement bonus, cementing the "Fast Skirmisher" feel.
    The fluff gives a LOT of mention to guns coming from Araby, so I'd have archers as Core, and some kind of Jezzail unit as Special/Rare.
    Yes to Big-Ass cannon.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:54 No.16378978
    This thread: Herpaderp.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)19:59 No.16379040
    i think the 0-1 hand guns should actually go to the camel riders.

    they should have an option to change their spear for a handgun.

    knights would use lance and have a 3+ save (perhaps light armor instead of heavy) but will retain the ability to parry on horseback when using hand weapon and shield. (so not on the turn they charge with a lance)
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:18 No.16379228
    their spear?
    Warmaster camel riders have bows.
    Are our camels mele or ranged units?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:20 No.16379245
    Why not give an option for either?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:20 No.16379250
    The Elementals of Araby (Or Djinn in the Arabyan language) live in four mighty empires.

    The Empire of Flames is ruled by a mighty Emir of Ashes, who has made his realm into a blazing forge, making scimitars and mail of enchanted brass. He constantly wars with the lady of the waters.

    The Prince of Earth Elementals rules a realm of eternal sand, as far as the eye can see, where the vultures look over the land for those who have lost hope, and his wandering djinn dervishes sing constantly of all they have saved.

    The Lady of the Waters rules over a great garden, filled with fresh dates and pure hashish, a veritable paradise. Her daughters are the spirits of the oasis, who grant solace to those who find them in the great desert.

    The Bey of Winds rules the skies above all the elemental realms. His followers shine their light all across the land, scattering the sands of the Earth Prince's realm, and keep everything in an eternal motion.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:21 No.16379255
    alright, bows with options for 0-1 handguns.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:27 No.16379323

    Let's see...

    Arabyan knights with spears/scimitars

    Desert riders with either spears/scimitars or bows

    Camel riders with spears/scimitars or bows

    To give the groups enough variety, one of them should have only one type of weapon.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:39 No.16379466
    if we want a 3+ save knights would could just have arabyan horses not wear any barding- heavy armour + shield+ mount = 3+ save ,it also works well because barding would slow them down
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)20:43 No.16379506
    fanfic or souce?
    How does it work with the winds of chaos/lores of magic?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)21:32 No.16380016
    Fanfic, regretfully, although I've seen similar things for Arabyan Elementals before. (Specifically in the "Tempus Fugitives Wrath of Nagash" campaign, in the army of Jaffar)
    >> MagicJuggler !sMYbIFo6TI 09/21/11(Wed)21:58 No.16380265
    Plenty of options for skirmishers; the nomad cavalry is a definite option (though we'd have to work to make them more than straight copies of Chaos Marauder cav. Additional skill with javelin/etc would be nice). Skirmishers would be naffatun/grenadiers perhaps?
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)22:06 No.16380346
    the knights should get lances.
    >> Anonymous 09/21/11(Wed)22:08 No.16380364
    except the warmaster araby knights had barding.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)01:28 No.16382372
    Perhps give Arabay two different 'ranks' of Knight? A lesser-armoured one who could possibly drop into core, and then the Heavier armoured cataphract-types?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)01:29 No.16382382
    The cannon should be named Orban after the hungarian technician that helped the ottomans win the siege of constantinople with his cannon.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)04:22 No.16383709
    barding slows horses down(or at least used to I'm not sure if it does that in 8ed)- bretonians have a special rule to prevent that

    the old Araby character in bretonian army Suliman le Saracen didnt have barding on his horse because it would slow him down he wouldnt be able to keep up with the bretonian knigths
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)05:53 No.16384262
    Wow, this is still alive.

    We've had a lot of ideas,but a lot of disagreements too, mostly on the issues of the knights and of blackpowder weapons.

    So firstly, blackpowder - what do we do about it?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:08 No.16384345
    blackpowder weapons- for elite troops only - the guard, Elephants and characters.

    Knigths- speed is the theme of the army so they shouldnt have barding

    also additional ideas- camels should be slower than horses (m7) but maybe could count as having a not slowing them down barding "build in"(thick cammel wool/hair acting as soft armour)?

    also some rambling about arabyan religion:
    dont seem to be too religious
    their priests are indistinguishable from their scholars for an oudsider
    moon god (warhammer world has 2 moons so which moon is it? and what about the other one? the moons are Mannslieb- white and big associated in old world with Mannan ,said to be the cause of tides and Morrslieb - small and dark green - associated in old world with Morr and evil omens, posible source of warpstone. Maybe only one of those moons is visible in Araby?)

    The arabyan god is in direct oposition to the nekharan sun god, hates undead, phisolophers and maybe astrologers - they observe the movement od the moons to understand their gods will?

    Name of god is a taboo- they call him The One/The Only. Prayers are held after dawn and before dusk - welcoming and biding farewell to their diety. Nigth is cald - its the time of rest and arabians thank their god for bringing the nigth and protecting them from the hot sun.

    Meteorites may have a reigious significance for the arabyans mimicing the realworld pre-islam meteorite worship in araby(the dlack stone of kaaba is suposedly a meteorite). Maybe they're the worpstone meteorites from Morrslieb?

    I'm going to the doctor now, be back in an hour
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:09 No.16384349
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    Ok, so it seems that most of the Araby posters from before must be away right now. I'll post a Mamluk and then we can begin the whole thing anew later!
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:11 No.16384368
    also - as I expected we'll get some info about the arabyan ship in dreadfleet on GW site today
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:13 No.16384381
    the phisolophers and astrologers part was about the priests...not enough sleep
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:14 No.16384385
    What do the people of Warhammer Araby worship?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:18 No.16384401

    I posted too soon!

    Some interesting points, what would you suggest for these blackpowder guards? A jezzail-equipped special unit?

    I agree on knights, but as far as camels are concerned I think that we could maybe have a rule reflecting the reluctance of horses to engage them (possibly overpowered?). Was it decided if they should be melee, ranged or both?

    I'd say from a religious perspective, the two moons are the two aspects of their god, both have their place (good and evil, a ying/yang deal). Maybe call the god 'Moon' in Arabic? (From what I can tell, moon in Arabic is Qamar/Kamar?)

    Some good ideas here!
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:27 No.16384448

    They're descibed as being monotheists but there's no information on their deity. They have a lot of moon imagery however, so that seems likely.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)06:48 No.16384551
    Quick brainstorm on special characters?

    Grand Sultan - leader of Araby, Louis Leoncoeur/Karl Franz type. Based on Saladin, humble but fierce when roused to battle.

    Mad Qaseem - amazing merchant that gives some benefit to purchasing magical items, unlocks extra blackpowder options, etc. Not great in combat (although he may have a bodyguard - a Maneater, unit of elite eunuchs, etc).

    Jan Orban - Kislevite gunner in Arabyan service. Can build a giant magical cannon which is huge and terrifying.

    Khalil of Copher - a widely-travelled sailor that is a decent warrior, has some magical trinkets from his travels and can call upon some loyal crew (upgrades to units?).

    Hazrad the Black - a powerful wizard that can take multiple djinn bodyguards, uses the Lore of Death (possibly the only wizard permitted to do so by the Sultan). Hates undead, keen on hunting down necromancers in Araby.

    Just a few ideas, how do they seem?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)07:03 No.16384635
    Also, a potentially useful resource:


    Any other useful resources, dump 'em here (we've already got a few, like the bits culled from the WHFRP arms book, and Arabyan illustration from Blood on the Reik).
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)07:24 No.16384729
    According to the guy who wrote Liber Chaotica: "they might worship a development from the Nehekharan religion in the form of Ptra-Atem ('tra-atem'), a kind of judgemental sun god, and also his wife Iseh ('ee-seh-hh - really pronounce that last 'h') a protective feritlity Moon Goddess, but that their religion and mysticism is also tightly bound with the existence of countless thousands of Djinn (daemons), some good some bad, some exceptionally powerful and some very weak, some to be venerated and some to be reviled."

    Of course, back in the 2nd edition, their god was simply called Allah, but for some reason, I doubt that would be as acceptable today
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)07:28 No.16384757

    Didn't know that, thanks for that. So, the moon is a deity, but their sun is too - maybe two aspects of the same god? It could all be about duality, the heat of the day and the cool of night, good and evil, etc.

    I'm liking the idea of djinn as mini-gods, with nomads leaving out small offering for them, etc, whilst the city-dwellers might ignore this practice as they know better, etc.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)08:22 No.16385031
    Blackpowder should be Guards/Characters only.
    Make a Lord that gives guns to some Core units, like a rich merchant or a scientist
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)08:43 No.16385157
    a quick write up on the skirmishers:

    Armies of Arabyan sultans and shaiks often contain auxiliary troops drawn from local populations and far of comunities alike. Many of them cant aford a battle worthy mounts while rare few simply prefere to figth on their feet. Amongs theose the most famous are the Thieves of Al-haikk, the Corsairs of Lashiek, the Ali Ababwa's 40 Robbers, the Murder Cult form the Land of Assassins, the Whirling Dervishes, the Dark Alchemists from the Island of Sorcerers and the Ebonite Mercenaries of Southland. No mather where are they from their motivation is always the same- they figth for the gain. Most gain the loot of their enemies, some gain slaves, others favour of their deity, while the Alchemists gut their fallen enemies in search of rare ingrediences.

    equipment:hand weapon, thrown knifes(?)-can buy additional hand weapons or shields, can substutute thrown knifes with jevelin, thrown axes or naphta bombs

    Special rules:
    Skirmish, Ambush, Must stay for a short while in place after destroying an enemy unit (looting/prayer/gutting), maybe something more?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)08:51 No.16385211

    Sounds like Mad Qaseem - he can let archers take blackpowder weapons.


    Sounds good, but a lot is being put under one category there which might be an issue as it's a lot to cover. Their wide range of weapons makes the nice and varied, maybe they need to pass a Ld test the turn after defeating an enemy in melee to be able to function? After that they can act as normal. It's flavourful but simple.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)08:58 No.16385255
    I still think that Mad Quaseem/Kareem should make Camel Riders core and a Richier Merchant like
    Honest Abdul the Blackpowder dude
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)08:58 No.16385256
    >The Lord choice can have a range of special sycophants that give him bonuses/penalties. The Ambitious Visir, the Loyal Eunuch, the Storytelling wife, the Hashashin Lord, the Harem Mistress, etc

    Love that Idea but ther's no reall place for them as a separate unit. It gave my an idea for a generals "warmachine" - Command Tent - Stationary, comes with a crew of flagmen/trumpeters that give the commander great bonuses of his leadership distance (most of the army can use his leadership value) and you can buy additional advisors eg. a cartographer who gives bonuses to your flanking units

    Also:- magical constructs? e.g Clockwork Spiders/Ants/Beatlles powered by lesser djinn. Or is that to close to the tomb kings?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:05 No.16385286

    Explain a bit more if you don't mind?


    For an army that's made up of a lot of cavalry, having a stationery commander seems a bit redundant, but the imagery of a sultan in his golden tent with a harem, eunuch bodyguards, vizier magician, etc is admittedly cool.

    Liking the magical construct idea - it's background-friendly and cool. What animals are associated with Araby? Build from there!
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:15 No.16385344
    Make it a mobile palace. Like a large wagon, or a massive chariot pullet by a mighty group of arabyan stallions.
    Still dedicated to opulance than battle, but mobile merely to be that much more impressive.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:15 No.16385348
    Ok how about adding a 3'd option to the lord/hero slots? We have the warrior/leader , the mage, how the support oprtion of merchant lord?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:18 No.16385380
    Make it an option for the elephants howdah. Elephant with a comand tent on top!
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:20 No.16385389
    Taken to the enormous Moroccan imperial palace at Meknes, Pellow's first sight of the sultan was on a gilded chariot being drawn by a harnessed band of wives and eunuchs. Sultan Moulay Ismail appears almost like a pantomime emir, "wrapped in fabulous silks and damasks, with a voluminous silk turban, his waist-length cloak wrought all over with silver and gold and bright red riding boots..."
    Giles Milton White Gold
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:21 No.16385402
    Also make the Elephants little bigger than real life ones- Stegadon sized
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:22 No.16385407
    See Mad Kareem/Quareem/whateverwerecallinghimnow originally was supposed to be a homage to Crazy Hassan the legendary Camel Seller, and my idea is that the Hero would make the Special Unit Cammel Riders a core Unit.
    But hey thats just my opinion
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:23 No.16385411
    Description of sulltan Moulay Ismail of Morocco (reign 1672-1727)
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:23 No.16385416
    I'm thinking something like the mobile throne Xerxes rides around in 300.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:24 No.16385420

    That sounds suitably over-the-top for a people who are said to be 'more wealthy than the dwarves'. Make it a mount option for a lord, and it can be augmented with additional advisors - bodyguards make it better in combat, a vizier lets it shoot magic, a harem gives a bonus to Ld, etc.

    That way it can be included, but isn't necesary all the time. For big battles though, it's an impressive unit that both shows off and can help out the army.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:27 No.16385445
    DO THIS!
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:32 No.16385474
    Wagons dont stike me as something Arabyan. They are more of a Kislev thing. Make it a Howdah option for the Hero mounted on a Elephant. Also what do you think about adding the third option of a Merchant Lord to lords/heroes slot?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:33 No.16385483

    That would be pretty cool. Visar makes it count as a L3 Wizard or something, Each Bodyguard adds +1 WS and +1 Attack. Make a fully pimped out one capable of smashing down almost anything that gets in it's way but at the same time, expensive as hell.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:34 No.16385489
         File1316698440.jpg-(277 KB, 1131x1504, The-Slave-Market.jpg)
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    Picture for insperation
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:37 No.16385506

    Elephants as mounts, as well as a rare choice, seems sensible. The wagon could be pulled by djinn-constructs? That seems suitably decadent and fantastical.

    What other abilities would the merchant have?


    Yeah, I agree, but being pulled by something as mundane as horses seem dull. Oooh, what if it could be put in the middle of a block of guards or spearmen?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:39 No.16385515

    That could work. Give it a rule along the lines of 'May always fight, regardless of rows' and have it come with a block of spearmen.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:45 No.16385537
    Shit, you guys, make them kind of Zoroastrian/Manichaen. They believe in two opposite and effectively equal principles- good and evil, with fire, light, heat etc representing Good. Good will ultimately win, but until that day it's a constant battle. Their view of Chaos is that it all stems from the Dark- the different chaos gods are just different principles of the primal evil. They adopt the moon as a symbol because the moon shines in the darkness and symbolises hope- it waxes and wanes as the constant struggle goes on, but it's always there to keep hope alive even in the darkness. Like Zoroastrians, they also treat fire as representing Goodness and they keep torches burning at their temples/shrines at all times.

    This is also the reason why they're not incredibly zealous. The gods of other peoples are different principles of Goodness/Light- so, while those people might be confused about this, there's no real reason to force them to change. Chaos worship is a different matter, of course- although Tzeentch in particular can stir up trouble here, convincing some that he too is an aspect of Light...
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:47 No.16385546
    Oh, yeah, and for this reason they tend not to like caves much.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:49 No.16385557

    Great idea, that would make for a greta background piece. This begs another question - how much of an army book is devoted to each section?

    Army list, background, magical items, special characters, miscellaneous (alternative armies, ways to use an army, painting, etc)?

    Some form of structure would be good to build the army list inside.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:55 No.16385587
    Its not so much bout being pulled by this or that as that wagons arent really something that was widely used in midle east and a 2 wheels of a chariot woulnt support a big construction. Maybe it could simply carriet by the gennies?Maybe even fly? Or a palace on a giant elephant.

    Merchant lords could be a support option similary to the Tomb Kings Necrotect, Empire Engineers etc - allowing additional slots of special/rare units , additional equipment, magical equipment costing less points etc
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:56 No.16385593
    I have seen people suggest they'd follow ormazd/ahura mazda

    Of course, they could follow the ol' Gods of Law.

    Alluminas, god of Light, stasis, and illumination.
    Solkan, god of fire, judgement, and vengence.
    Arianka, goddess of law and order. Imprisoned in a far away land by Tzeentch, the arch-deciever.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)09:56 No.16385594

    I like the elephant idea.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:07 No.16385653
    the problem with Arabyans worshiping a god/gods derived from the Nehekharan religion is that they are at war with the Tomb Kings, and all Nekharan gods have an aspect of Death/Afterlife/Undeath. Sun symbols are popular in tomb kings minis and there;s none of them in the warmaster arabian miniatures- instead ther's lots of Moons
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:11 No.16385672

    So we stick with moons and the duality thing - the moon brings light to the dark, etc. The sun can represent evil and unforgiving heat,etc, but also anger. Simples!
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:11 No.16385675
    The Knights of the Blazing Sun have a history with Araby. Perhaps that can be used in the game?

    They wear the skins of Cheetahs after defeating the Black Guard of the Sultan who first used the style.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:15 No.16385701
    Also what about the other moon?
    Warhammer world has 2 of them- or are they both symboling the duality? The Mannslieb being the good and Morrslieg the bad one? The green crescent moon would be the symbol of evil while the white/silver the good?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:30 No.16385822
    I think we should work out our Vore first before going TO the Special Units. The Characters should balance the army not the contrary
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:46 No.16385948
         File1316702793.jpg-(46 KB, 244x200, Iznogud_watched.jpg)
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    I am personally amazed, that this guy still wasn't mentioned.
    With all great ideas from books about him...

    Really, /tg/...
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)10:53 No.16385993
         File1316703225.jpg-(201 KB, 516x700, Iznogoud_liquidator_djin.jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)11:40 No.16386296

    I'd forgotten Iznogud, hehe.

    Ok, so what do we have cores-wise then?

    *Nomads (light cavalry)
    *Light infantry (these guys need more of an identity)
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)11:46 No.16386333
    Lords/Heroes should represent the highes levels of diferent branches of an army(+ a mage because this is a fantasy seting)- eg. Empire has Generels - those guys represent the supreme comanders of the state troops, Templar Grand Masters - comanders of knigthly orders, Warrior Priests-those guys comand the fanatics, Engineers - the comanders of alitlery + of course the Colage Mages

    We shouldnt be doing not only the named character but even the normal heroes/lords because the army isnt really developed

    Arabyan army as it looks now is devided into 2 separate divisons - the city dwellers (rich, more infantry focused) and the desert people (poor, cavalery focused), we could probably add something more. Any other idea?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)11:55 No.16386393
         File1316706936.jpg-(647 KB, 1106x1538, Araby Storm of Magic.jpg)
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    To add to the resources of Arabyan stuff, here's a pair of magic items from Storm of Magic.

    If nothing else, Ibn Naggazar would make an excellent historical character.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)12:01 No.16386440
    >*Light infantry (these guys need more of an identity)
    I dont think they need more of an identity- this would mean we would have to narow them down significantly. Now they simply represent illregular troops drawn from diferent parts of araby without being too divergent from the rest of the army.They are kind of like the empire free company.

    Also: we probably should add one more cavalry unit to the core because now it looks infantry heavy
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)12:04 No.16386464
         File1316707495.jpg-(86 KB, 627x911, empire.jpg)
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    a Little bit on araby from 7ed empire army book
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)12:13 No.16386539
         File1316707990.jpg-(11 KB, 360x99, carpet.jpg)
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    8ed rulebook - arabyan flying carpets are now standard enchanted items
    >> Espagnoll !/5aJFFL8RI 09/22/11(Thu)12:14 No.16386547
    Those who played the old modules of the first edition WHFRPG sure should remember a weird encounter with a stalian physician and an arabian assassin on a flying carpet asking the PCs if they know where to find a certain rare kind of plant or root.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)13:23 No.16387067
    We could make more Corsair units?
    i don't know
    i think it's fine the way it is
    >Pic is some of the possible units
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)13:24 No.16387073
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    Oh... Oh allright, sorry.

    Uhmm... For the emperor...
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)13:24 No.16387075
         File1316712261.jpg-(78 KB, 873x627, HaradrimRiders.jpg)
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    captcha fucked my pic
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)13:36 No.16387182

    Ok, that's fine then. Time to sort out what we have and then start on background.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)13:59 No.16387360
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    OK I've been reading the little fluff section in warmaster rule book about the arabian army and here are my thougths about the "army divisions" :

    The warmaster book mentions a caliph but the text implies that the Caliph has a lower status
    than the Sultan.("Sultan, Caliph and many lesser nobles and sorcerers have their own core of guards.") In our real world Caliph was the highes ruler, above the sultans, so I made Caliph synonymous with the Great Sultan.

    Caliph - the Great Sultan, the Sultan of Alhaka, overlord of all the other cities of Araby. - Karl Franz type character

    Sultans are overall comanders of the cities and all the tribes that live in the lands surounding them. Few Sultans would be so bold as to take to the field personally and the commander of an Arabian army is likely to be a Grand Vizier.

    city troops :
    Spearmen (garnizon troops of cities and towns + interesting note "Amongst these troops are some distinctive regiments which, traditionally, fight with curved swords or which wear uniforms peculiar to their place of origin."-a new unit type or are they part of the menagerie hidnig unther the name of the skirmishers/ligth infantry?)
    Bowmen ("all the cities of Araby maintain strong bodies of archers")
    Guard (sultans houseld troops)
    Elephants (sultans compete who has more of them)
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:00 No.16387376
    The leaders of the tributary tribes that live in the lands surrounding great cities are called Emirs.

    "suburban" troops :
    knigths (lesser nobles, have their own land)
    skirmishers/ligth infantry (units drawn from the places near the great cities like the land of the dervishes or the corsairs from the coast)

    The leaders of the desert tribes of the south and east are called Sheiks.

    Desert troops-
    Nomad horsemen
    Camel riders

    Great sorcerers of Araby are the mystics of the southern deserts or the court magicians of the Sultans themselves.

    Magical troops- Carpet bombers, djinn (sorcerors mount/dogyguard)

    we could probably add units to those divisions but I dont really see a new divison there
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:06 No.16387438
    Additional notes:

    Grand Viziers are interesting - they seem to be more likely army generals taking the role of warrior/leader lord while Sultans are more likely to be a support/leader type lord who allows the use of some elite troops and eqipment similarly to the proposed merchant lord. Sultan also has the higher status than viziers and would probably be the army general if both would be present.

    Emir is a leader/warrior hero, and Sheik is pure warrior type hero giving bonuses only to desert troops.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:27 No.16387645
         File1316716028.jpg-(110 KB, 873x627, FlamingScimitarCard_XL.jpg)
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    As I expected - some fresh arabian fluff on GW's site:
    Flaming Scimitar is at first glance a glorious pleasure barge from the coastlines of the Arabyan deserts, complete with occult libraries, fountains of healing water and an extensive harem. Appearances can be deceptive, however, especially when sorcerers are concerned. Beneath the barge's luxurious exterior lies a war machine of fire and steel. Its arched gunports hide a hundred ornate bronze cannons crewed by teams of hunchbacks, and its golden minarets and palaces are filled with the magical treasures of its captain, the Golden Magus - the most flamboyant (and arguably the best fed) wizard to ever sail the Warhammer high seas. The Magus' bodyguard of Ogre eunuchs and clockwork beasts make for a formidable army, and his burning sword holds the power of immortal flame. But it is the elemental conjurations of the Magus that are the Scimitar's most fearsome asset, for the southern sorcerer has the ability to summon tempest djinns to fill his sails, sea-nymphs to bolster his hull, and fire efreets to incinerate any enemy warships that get too close."
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:32 No.16387694
         File1316716378.jpg-(15 KB, 252x267, 293856329875.jpg)
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    Lords and heroes:

    >Viziers, sultans, emirs and Sheikhs

    They are normally the generals of the arabyan armies, the emirs and Sheikhs being more or less the same except for the people they rule (city dwellers and nomad tribes).


    These guys use magical artifacts to compensate for the winds of magic blowing with less force, these artifacts contain binded demons in rings, staffs, carpets or lamps.



    They should have option to change spears for scimitars


    Nothing to say here, arabyans love their bowmen.

    >nomad horsemen/desert riders

    light cavalry, we should decide now if they are melee/ranged/both


    Should be fairly customizable, they can take the role of nomads on foot/corsairs/etc. I like the looting rule.


    >Arabyan knights

    More heavily armored cavalry, but should still be fast. They use lances/scimitars

    >Camel riders

    They should be in their majority a nomad unit, since they are better suited for the desert life. Probably melee, but some people suggest ranged.

    >Arabyan guard

    VERY customizable, they should be able to choose a variety of weapons, armors and rules (Jezzails, hashashins, etc)



    Elephants with people shooting arrows from their backs/cannon mounted)

    >Flying carpet bombers

    Fuck yeah flying carpets, they have varied kinds of ammunition.


    To make it different from the sorcerer with djinn familiar, this is a unit of soldiers protecting a handler. The handler can´t throw spells because he is too busy with the lamp, but the djinn can manifest in it's full glory (bigger and more powerful). We can give some customization to this unit, like different elements (classic djinn, efreet, etc).


    I want to live there.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:43 No.16387783
    Make the Light Horsemen both, but they need a rule for shooting backwards.
    it was their Special Rule in Warmaster
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:45 No.16387802
         File1316717157.jpg-(171 KB, 720x479, 2387563489.jpg)
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    So be it!

    We should also decide the special rules of the army.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)14:48 No.16387825
    >dat pic
    >Haters gonna Hate
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:00 No.16387947
         File1316718018.png-(96 KB, 252x267, 293856329875.png)
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    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:00 No.16387954
    So, something that helps with movement?
    i mean they don't wear heavy armour, so i guess they can have something that boost the speed of the units
    >> Benign Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:05 No.16388005
    I didn't even read the thread. Gonna do that now.
    But damn that model is cool.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:09 No.16388050
    I'm only doubtful with the heavy knights. The archetype desert knight (turk) should be a lancer/bowmen not fully armored, and shooting on formation.

    Then the desert riders are the horse archers proper, shooting in any direction. Perhaps a rule that any enemy within X inches as they move rolls to see if he got hit?

    On camels, they have greater height than horses, which goes great in melee, and good maneuvering. The real problem is the soft feet getting hurt on rough ground.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:17 No.16388118
    GUYS this army is becoming a little too bland, it looks like Human Codex Number 3 with a bit of arabian fluff thrown here and there.

    So, to add a bit more of variety we need a little more fantasy in here. We are talking about Warhammer FANTASY right? So..

    Monstrous Creature - Giant Casket Kobra.

    Many are the mortal creature that dwell the hot sands of the Arabyan Deserts. One of the most famous, and main attraction of the sultans' exotic zoos, is the Giant Kobra. Many trainers died attempting to tame it, but no one dares to oppose the sultan's will, until someone finds a way to dominate the creature. Through the melody of a simple wooden flute, the Giant Kobra can be hypnotized to the point of becoming docile. Then the rider captures him in a magical casket imbued with the flute's song, until the time comes to unleash the Kobra's fury upon unwary foes.

    Basically the model is this giant wooden casket with a big bad serpent in it, and on top of it a guy with a flute who's playing it.
    There are two species of Kobra: on that has heroic killing blow and poison which will be the primary monster/character hunter, the second type of Kobra will have an anti-horde role thanks to his venomous spit which grants it many attacks in melee.

    Next is the Fenix, although i'm not sure if it will fit the army's theme, even if it is of arabyan origins, so i will not expand on it.

    One more thing: WE NEED MORE BOMBS. I know this goes against the lore but the only thing that's similar to the classic "make everything blow up" are the skaven
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:21 No.16388163

    >Arabyan guard
    I say jezzails as default. Only the guard gets fine rifles.
    Then there are anti-magic options, shields, banners...
    Hashishins would work on melee or ranged?

    >Elephants with people shooting arrows from their backs/cannon mounted)
    We do need to get the cannon somewhere

    Like a Reliquae, then?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:26 No.16388212
    Given how similar the standard depiction of an Efreet is to the Bloodletters, it would not suprise me if there was once a daemonic incursion in Araby, where a powerful Bloodthirster (Probably called "The Lord of Rocs", and if you can figure out why, you are A: a master of old fluff, and B: as crazy as I am) invaded with a legion of lesser daemons. Relics of this time can still be found, and the odd Bloodletter/Efreet can still be found in abandoned ruins.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:30 No.16388242

    Viziers are the guys who get shit done - they lead the armies, they manage the cities.

    Sultans are the titular leaders but most dont do anything but eat and have sex with their courthesans - they arent really much of figthers. They get some cool toys when they decide to show up on a battle field e.g Elephant with a howdah/command tent/palace, Best Guard units, Artillery, lots of magical items. They're presence can also bolster the troops morale. But they suck at figthing.



    Emir is the lord of troops from outside the city - the city troops are manged by viziers in sultans name. Cavalry cant really be trained in the cities and knigths are not part of the desert troops.So are the irreggular skirmishers. Emirs are mini viziers. They still live at court and know their ways around it but they manage the things outside the cities.

    Sheiks dont give a fuck about the city folk. They are under sultans power more titulary than in reality - all the cities are far away. They're not your typical noble types - they're bloody nomads chiftains. They have the outmost loyality of their desert troops and deep disdain for those soft guys from the coast.

    should have lord and hero tiers


    >nomad horsemen/desert riders
    should be ranged

    >Arabyan knights
    should were heavy armour but no bardong for their horses so they dont lose the speed

    >Camel riders
    If they are the majority of desert troops they should be in core together or instead of nomad horsemen


    needs an option for a sultan and his court/advisors

    already have a place in the list - should always be under sorcerors eye as mount/familair/bodyguard, maybe 2 tiers of djiin for the usual 2 tiers of mages(hero and lord)

    Djinns place in the rare could be taken by the clockwork beasts powered by legions of lesser spirits bound to them

    Also:ornate bronze cannons crewed by teams of hunchbacks
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:32 No.16388262

    I'm actually more interested in the phoenix, the serpent thing sounds more like a sorcerer familiar, similar as the guy in the rope >>16376132


    >Probably called "The Lord of Rocs", and if you can figure out why, you are A: a master of old fluff, and B: as crazy as I am

    Please explain
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:35 No.16388291
    There used to be a type of greater daemon named a Baalrukh (the "file off the serial numbers" version of a Balrog). The Baalrukh was basicly what the Bloodthirster is, and Baalrukh can translated as Lord of Rocs.
    Yes I'm crazy.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:39 No.16388329

    >If they are the majority of desert troops they should be in core together or instead of nomad horsemen

    My mistake, I meant to say that most camel riders are nomads, not that most nomads are camel riders.

    >already have a place in the list - should always be under sorcerors eye as mount/familair/bodyguard, maybe 2 tiers of djiin for the usual 2 tiers of mages(hero and lord)

    >Djinns place in the rare could be taken by the clockwork beasts powered by legions of lesser spirits bound to them

    Fair enough
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:41 No.16388350
    >The author sheds a manly tear of emotion at the pimping
    >thanks /tg/
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:46 No.16388391
         File1316720775.jpg-(1.19 MB, 2304x3072, Ottoman_Mamluk_horseman_circa_(...).jpg)
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    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)15:53 No.16388436
    How about some army specific rules?
    Mounted infantry rule was mentioned here
    most if not all of the infantry could have it

    something else?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:09 No.16388579
    A Warding Banner as an upgrade for any core unit? The unit puts decorations, religious signs and personal amulets as protection. The first spell against them gets a good save.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:18 No.16388654
    we shouldnt be using names strait out of real world , besides the name Mameluks imply that Knigths are slaves and we dont have any fluff implications to think that. I actually think they are some arabyan form of lesser nobility from the coastal area. If you really dont like the word Knigth we could use the arabic word - Faris. The same with the word Janissary. As for splitting the guard unit - I'm not sure.Maybe only a specific named unit of the guard(unit upgrade similar to upgrading 1 unit of bowmen into huntsmen in empire) get the guns? maybe 0-1 limit and having a sultan removes the limit? Or maybe just leave them as they are? Not sure yet.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:23 No.16388692
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    Makes sense, but the reason we were suggesting the customization in the first place was because otherwise it would end in a lot of special units. We can split one or two (janissaries and assassins) and let the "normal" guard keep some options

    >That said I see no reason there can't be elite assassin heroes like the skaven and Dark elves have. haven't thought this one through.)

    Because in the other fandex they added those units, and they looked just like copypasted witch elves and assassins.

    Also pic
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:32 No.16388751
    Yeah, I'd say Assassins should be more like drugged up fantatics. Not Ninja.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:37 No.16388784
    I dont think we actually need a unit of assassins but thats just me. The only unit mentioned to come from the land of the assassins is the all female unit of guard named the Dread Daugthers of Tariq. The ligth infantry unit with their ambush rule, armed with 2 close combat weapons and throwing knifes could easly represent some assassins recruited from that area.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:41 No.16388824

    Exactly, that's why most of the optional units should be just arabyan guard with other equipment/rules

    The dread daughters could become a different unit, but I don´t know enough of them
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)16:57 No.16388932
    Well they're just a cool name. We dont know who tariq is (I'm guessing a hasan ibn sabbah like figure) we know that like all the guard units they are fanatically loyal, we know they are all female and that people fear them for some reason. I would guess ligthly armoured 2 hand weapons guard unit that cause fear.Thats it. Nothing fancy - maybe they are so dreaded because they are willing to die if they can take their masters enemies with them - so they are extremally loyal. Probably could do the same kamikaze highlanders routine as the original assassins.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)17:12 No.16389042
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    I think we could actually look into the academy faction of HoMaM5 for inspiration. The game coppied Wahrammer FB so much with other factions (devils with chaos stars on sticks...WHA...?)that it makes perfect sense.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)18:12 No.16389589
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)18:31 No.16389772
    Do Elvan horses still have better stats than the regular ones?
    As the Arabyan horses descend from them, IIRC, and would make a good "Elite force", compared to the more common Camels.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)19:33 No.16390295
    i mean, it's not like it's rare for the arabyans.
    but i guess Camel could be a Core option
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)19:51 No.16390486
    The horses of Al Muktar's Desert Dogs and Suliman le Saracen are normal human horses. Maybe they were originally descended from the elven steeds but in time they probably got mixed with normal horses. In 2ed WHFRP the arabian horses are fines and most ill-tempered of all steeds and can cost 10 times the normal horses cost but they are still normal human steeds, just of best quality. If we really want to we could probably come up with some minor special army specific rule for them instead of changing their stats. Bretonnians got the Barding doesnt slow us down rule so thats out.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)20:03 No.16390598
    Elven Steed M9 WS3 BS0 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld5
    Warhorse M8 WS3 BS0 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld5
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)20:34 No.16390820
    Seeing they're a desert unit and they're probally accustomed with the Desert ground, we should make a rule about difficult terrain
    Maybe "Reroll Difficult Terrain"
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)20:37 No.16390841
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    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)20:46 No.16390900
    Elven blood- Arabyan horses are descended of the great elven steeds, and their blood runs stronger in their veins when they're comanded in the elven tongue. The arabyan steeds start running with uncanny speed but tire quickly after.

    A short term burst of additional speed but it tires the horses

    You can have horses move with M9 but if you do so you cannot persue fleeing units(?) ( or have to pass a Ld test to do it? or persue with a penalty of somekind?). You have to wait a round before using this ability again on the same unit.(?)
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:27 No.16391318
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    Bumping with Camel Riders
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:30 No.16391337
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    more Camels
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:30 No.16391355
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    Camel Spearmen
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:34 No.16391390
    I think that we should avoid "clockwork" altogether. I'd like to see more fantasy and less steampunk in the warhammer world.

    Also, should djinn be seperate creatures, or like a "magic item?"
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:35 No.16391403
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    More Minis from BlackTree Design
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:37 No.16391422
    Separate Creatures, but that's just my opinion
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:38 No.16391437
    Oooh! What if Djinn were the "Magic" of the Arabyan army? Like, instead of lores, a sorcerer would pick a specific Djinn, who could grant wishes in battle? Each wish would act like a spell, and the sorcerer could put more or less will behind the command, representing the casting force?

    And of course, opposing casters could out will the caster, forcing the djinn back?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:41 No.16391466
    First of all, Flying Carpet should be a special mount allowed to every character in the arabyan list.

    Next, I really liked that Giant Tent/Royal Advisers idea from a ways back. Maybe keep it a lord choice option?
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:42 No.16391492
    Part of the problem, as I've been reading this thread, is that a lot of Arabyan elements were given to different existing armies, particularly the Tomb Kings, Dark Elves, and Skaven, so it's going to be difficult to really isolate an Arabyan army.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:51 No.16391610
    Sorcerer Lord
    Pirate King

    Merchant Prince

    The Pirate King/Corsair fills the sneaky guy role that the theme needs, without the murky ground of what kind of assassin to have, historical or pop-culture. These are the guys that could have Gresus Goldtooth like abilities to debuff enemy units with threats, can use poisons, or have special movement rules.

    The merchant prince could be like an additional army standard bearer, and the general one could unlock special equipment or magic standards for the core choices.

    I liked the idea of two Special Hero Merchants that could unlock extremely rare items. But make them Bitter Rivals so no army could have both of them.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)21:55 No.16391656
    For special characters:
    Definitely want a Saladin-type. Definitely want a Sinbad-type. Should the magic-user be a Disney Jaffar-type evil sorcerer, or a more benevolent one? What about making a powerful Djinn a special character? Like how woodelves have Kurnous.
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)22:32 No.16391977
    >I liked the idea of two Special Hero Merchants that could unlock extremely rare items. But make them Bitter Rivals so no army could have both of them.

    Mad Kareem and Honest Abdul
    the two biggest sellers in the Arab desert.
    Abdul who sells every type of blackpowder weapon ever existed & Kareem with it's hordes of camels
    >> Anonymous 09/22/11(Thu)22:46 No.16392104
    I kind of like this idea. Although personally I recomend "Task", rather than Wish. Makes it more based on the genie doing it.

    As for enemies, Beasts of Chaos has a map showing that Araby has a major population of Beastmen.
    Given how varied beastmen can be when not in the old world, how about Arabyan Beastmen are like Ghuls, hooved hyena and jackel beastmen, who feed upon corpses.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)02:01 No.16393729
    Clockwork creatures are one of the main things in the One Thousand and One Nights e.g

    "The City of Brass" has life-like humanoid robots and automata, seductive marionettes dancing without strings, and a brass horseman robot who directs the party towards the ancient city.

    "The Ebony Horse" features a flying mechanical horse controlled using keys.

    "Third Qalandar's Tale" features a robot in the form of an uncanny boatman.

    They are also canon with the mention of clockwork beasts being part of Dreadfleets Golden Magus bodyguard
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)02:13 No.16393794
    Flying carpets are common magical items in 8th ed
    Besides what profile would it have?
    M10 WS0 BS0 S0 T0 W0 I0 A0 Ld0 flying?
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)02:20 No.16393845
    wow this thread still exists
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)02:47 No.16394081
    Granada analogue
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)02:58 No.16394170

    Like the idea, but I think that in the rules the wishes/tasks would still be represented by the lores of magic. We could have 1-2 army specific lores but most magic would be represented with the existing lores.

    Arabyan magic works on the basis of using Daemons to do the work while the sorcerer binds, control and comands it. Djinns, Efreets , Nymphs are all Daemons of a kind. They probably could also bind so minor chaos daemons closely asociated with specyfic winds of magic.

    Based on the idea that sorceror is nothing without its spirits and spirits have to be bound by the sorceror or they run away we should have sorseror ALWAYS acompanied by a Spirit of some kind as a bodyguard/familiar.

    Spirits could be lore specyfic:
    Water Nymph - lore of life
    Fire Efreet - lore of fire
    Tempest Djinn - lore of heavens
    Essence of Iron - lore of metal
    Sunray Sprite - lore of light
    Shadow Specter - lore of shadows
    Angel of Death - lore of death
    Jackal Spirit - lore of beasts

    We could forbid the use of some of those lores.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)03:05 No.16394236
    as said before - the lords and heroes should represent the army composition, being comanders of some of its division. As now corsairs have almost none presence in the army so having a Lord pirate makes little sense.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)05:38 No.16395439
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)05:43 No.16395475
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    By Stromfels' frothy trident!

    Can't believe that the thread I started, what, two days ago or so is still here. Some nice progress, liking the clockwork stuff and djinn granting wishes, etc.

    Son, you are decidely not disappoint!

    Pic barely related, but I can't seem to stop posting it.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)06:46 No.16395792
    did this guy really exist.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)09:21 No.16396611
    Yes, yes he did.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)11:51 No.16397633
    Pardon my noobness but how different a Scimitar Regiment would be compared to a Spear Regiment gameplay-wise?
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)11:54 No.16397660
    I think spears do something with the order units hit in in melee, hitting before other weapons.
    Swords generally high higher WS.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)11:54 No.16397663
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)14:02 No.16398654
    Okay, assembled a list of dates from other codexes and books that give us a rough timeline for some of Araby.

    271 - A series of earthquakes ravage Araby. (Lizardman 7e)

    800 - Shores of Araby start being ravaged by Norscan pirates from this century onwards. (Dogs of War)

    1150 - Ibn Jellaba of Araby treks across the desert, searching for an overland route into the interior of the Southlands. Encounters the hidden Lizardmen city of Zlatlan. (Lizardman 6e)

    1230 - The mad Arabian sorcerer Mahik al'Rak creates the Portal of Twilight from a series of enchanted mirrors. Shortly after, his body is possessed by a Lord of Change who thereafter influences the magical practices of Araby to the greater glory of Tzeentch. (Daemons of Chaos)

    1240 - Cities on the coasts of Araby are once again flourishing and prosperous after the Wars of Death in ancient times. (Dogs of War)

    1240 - Sartosa invaded by Corsairs of Araby (Dogs of War)

    1435 - An obscure Arabian sorcerer known as Jaffar unites the nomadic tribes using his charismatic power and his ability to summon desert genies. He sweeps out of the desert and makes himself Sultan of Araby. (Dogs of War)
    The Skaven spy for the Sultan and murder many rivals in exchange for warpstone. (Skaven 7e)

    1448 - Jaffar is manipulated into invading Estalia and captures Magritta. This begins the Araby crusades by the human realms of the Old World, notably Bretonnia and the Empire. Distrust and anarchy are spread wide. (Skaven 7e)

    1448 - Tilean mercenaries take part in wars to free Estalia from Sultan Jaffar. Tobaro holds out against the Sultan's army. (Dogs of War)
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)14:03 No.16398662
    1449 - An army of Bretonnian Knights is dispatched to assist the Estalians against the hordes of Sultan Jaffar of Araby. He is hurled back into Araby with great slaughter. (Bretonnia 5e)

    1450 - The Empire launches its Crusades against Araby (Empire 5e)

    1451 - The Battle of El-Haikk in which Sultan Jaffar of Araby is finally overthrown. (Bretonnia 5e)

    1460 - While crusading in Araby, Marius Holseher, Elector Count of Stirland, uncovers the Mirror of Nightmares and inadvertently travels through it into the Realm of Chaos. For reasons of their own, the Chaos Gods allow the Count to return to the mortal world unmolested, where he writes an account of his journey in the Liber Malefic. (Daemons of Chaos)

    1475 - A combined crusading army of the Empire and Bretonnia sacs the Arabian city of Bel-aliad. They inadvertently awaken the Portal of Twilight, banishing themselves into the Realm of Chaos where they become part of Khorne's eternal war. (Daemons of Chaos)

    1500 - Sultan Daryus-e Qabir launches crusades against the Old World. (WHFRP 1e)

    1501 - Sartosa recaptured from Corsairs of Araby by mercenary army of Luciano Catena. (Dogs of War)

    1550 - The Empire launches a second Crusade against Araby (Empire 5e)
    Anyone know of any other dates?

    Also, the 5th Bretonnian armybook outright states that Araby's horses come from Kislevite stock, the same as for all other old world horses (and Cathayan horses), with Bretonnia's horses being the only ones descended from Elven stock.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)14:36 No.16398886
    Because Jasmine is pretty hot
    how do you guys think the Core Spearmen will compare to the other troops from the other factions?
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)16:03 No.16399577
    All units in warhammer are assumed to have a hand weapon (a dagger/single handed sword/hand axe/club etc) besides other weapons. In other armies spearmen units have a hand weapon besides their spear. Giving spearmen an option for swords is actually downgrading as they give back their spears and dont get anything in exchange. Swords dont give you higher ws - thats an empire specific example where they had to give the state troop swordsmen something to be even considered an option compared to other state troops like the halabardiers or spearmen. Hand weapon and shield combo gives a 6+ ward save besides the standard efects of a shield ( giving you a better Sv ). Shields combo-ed with other weapons doesnt have this efect. Sprears allow to figth in an extra rank.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)16:37 No.16399865
    >Also, the 5th Bretonnian armybook outright states that Araby's horses come from Kislevite stock, the same as for all other old world horses (and Cathayan horses), with Bretonnia's horses being the only ones descended from Elven stock.

    So it contradicts what the warmaster rule book says about Arabyan horses - not the first time that the fluff for araby contradicts itself- each GW's authors could probably write whatever he likes about Araby and no one in the GW would rise a brow if it contradict other established arabyan fluff because they dont crosschek and reference the stuff they write about minor factions.

    As for an army specific rule for arabyan horses- maybe instaed of bieng faster (elven steeds) or not being slowed down by barding (bretonnia horses) they could be better at manouvering? Not sure how it would work exactly in the rules - maybe they could count the distance of their wheel manover as halved?
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)17:00 No.16400074

    This is good, but while having the non-fighty big fat rich Sultan and the Vizier general as lord choices, I don't think you really need to have Emirs AND Sheiks taking up the Hero choices.

    I don't know, I'd almost rather distinguish - just as Arabic folklore does - between clerics with divine powers and the users of sorcery - than between sheiks and emirs on the hero level.

    Plus their is the temptation of finding a way to have a Lord unit version of clerics, Prophets.

    Man, there are also too many good Special Character options: a ridiculously opulent Sultan going all Greasus Goldtooth (actually, probably redundant for that reason), a great sorcerer (perhaps a grand vizier sorcerer scheming tzneetchian type), a prophet, a legendary general, a mad merchant...

    Thoughts on the Basic Units:
    Spearmen and Horse Archers (these are the units assembled by the Vizier, spearmen from the Sultan's cities and the Horse Archers are trained and maintained by the Emirs in the surrounding areas at the beck and call of the Vizier.

    The components of the army provided by the Sheiks are the sword swinging Desert Riders and the light lancers of their Household Calvary.

    Yes, this means that 3/4ths of the basic units are on horseback. This is Araby!
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)17:37 No.16400504
    Well, if we have any sorcerer schemer special character, I'd say having Jaffar as fuffilling that role. After he lost his position, he turned himself undead with the power of daemons, and now he schemes to regain his place.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)18:11 No.16400985
    This sounds remarkably good.
    Especially as it frees up the Vizirs and Sultans of individual cities for the players to generate, rather than have them all be named.

    Maybe as an upgrade for a mount, a Roc/Rukh. A colossal bird, which is like a flying Elephant.
    Maybe as a single thing, like an upgrade for a special character, and about as effective as a Dragon.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)18:40 No.16401317

    Emperor Karl rides a Griffin. If the Sultan HAS to be a playable super-expensive unit for massive Fantasy version of Apocalypse armies, he'd probably ride a Roc.

    Otherwise, higher point versions of Nur for epic games could have an enslaved djinn beside him, Abdul Ali could be riding a Roc he captured Voyages of Sinbad style, and Mad Kareem would either be on a large flying carpet.
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)21:31 No.16403232
    >> Anonymous 09/23/11(Fri)22:18 No.16403713
    would the harem be a unit?
    >> soup 09/23/11(Fri)22:29 No.16403812
    Special Characters:
    Grand Vizier Nur
    Prince Abdul Ali
    Sheik Mad Kareem
    Rasuli the Magnificent
    The Prophet of Jamarkand

    Lords: Sultans, Viziers, Magi, Prophets

    Heroes: Emirs, Sheiks, Sorcerers, Clerics

    Core Units: Spearmen, Horse Archers, Desert Riders (swordsmen on horseback), Household Cavalry (light horse lancers), Ghouls

    Special Units: Arabyan Knights (the elite version of the light cavalry, with spear and sword), Jannisaries (arabyan guard concept, elite infantry), Camelary (bitches love camels), Horse Rifles, Hashashin

    Rare Units: War Elephants, Flying Carpet Riders, Artillery (I think of this, not cannons, when I think of Turks. Old-fashioned artillery looks like short, squat cannons facing the sky at a sleight angle. This is the kind of thing that shot a shell the Baron Munchausen grabbed on and rode), and something else.
    >> soup 09/23/11(Fri)22:52 No.16404071

    I'd say they are one of those retinue type units that you can only purchase with a Lord, in this case a Sultan.

    Also, to differentiate between THE Sultan, and one of the various sultans, I guess THE Sultan of unified Araby should be called The Caliph?
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)00:19 No.16404938
    The Sultan commands this thread rise!
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)00:31 No.16405045
    Why Ghouls?

    If I recall, the idea for Horse Archers was that they shoot in any direction. For parthian shooting, I'd say they automatically shoot the first enemy within Init'' that they pass during their movement instead of attacking

    Camelry should be melee.

    Some unit should take the turkish knight role of both lancer and bowmen.

    If anything, magic saves should be optional, fluffed as amulets and stuff.
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)04:29 No.16406461
    One of the things that are supposed to make araby diferent form other warhammer armies is that they're not overly religious (it would hinder their ability to trade with everyone) and their priests are scholars/philosophers/astronomers and not warriors.

    Thers no place for them on the battlefield, maybe with an exeption of Sultans Command Howdah as an Advisor (giving advise based on the portents that they read from the movement and visibility of craters on the warhammers worlds 2 moons - some form of a reroll in the game rules)

    >Desert Riders (swordsmen on horseback),
    dont really see the viabilitry of this unit - no lances means it sucks

    >Household Cavalry (light horse lancers)
    doubles the role of the Arabyan Knigths (this name stays...Arabian Nigths...like the fairy tales...get it?)

    are undead so no

    >Arabyan Knights (the elite version of the light cavalry, with spear and sword)
    Should have lances not spears, also heavy armour but no barding for the speed

    >Jannisaries (arabyan guard concept, elite infantry),
    shouldnt use real life names, besides in fluff they are drawn from many diferent places and cultures so we should use a generic name

    >Camelary (bitches love camels)
    slower than horses, close quarters, use lances and swords, cause fear in enemy horse riding cavalery- maybe they are only real arabyan unit of heavy cavalry

    >Horse Rifles
    could work, dont know why but would rather see rifles on camels
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)04:30 No.16406467

    > Hashashin
    Real life name so no, also should be made more generic to represent other auxiliary troops- a better version of the original skirmishers idea

    Could be mounted on an elephant
    Also - an ornate giant brass cannon with some spirits bound to it as crew men- djinn loading giant cannon balls, efreet ligthing the fuse

    >something else.
    Clockwork beasts powered by legions of lesser spirits bound to them

    I think the army needs mor magical influence in it- make it more high fantasy than other human armies

    winds of magic blow weaker in araby but arabyan manage that with making lots of magical items- the ships powered by djiin shouldnt be something out of ordinary for the arabyans

    Maybe give option for a magic weapon as standard equipment for the unit leaders? Give Guard an option for having them all armed with magic weapons?
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)04:39 No.16406515
    Also- why no infantry bowmen?
    Army specific rule- Mounted infantry-every unit of infantry with the exeption of skirmishers (because they get the ambushers rule) get the vanguard rule
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)07:29 No.16407408
    What magic items?
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)07:30 No.16407411
    rolled 8, 10 = 18

    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)12:10 No.16408964
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)14:35 No.16410140
    >What magic items?
    Its actually a good question.

    I see arabyan magical items as basically divided in 2 categories- the "possessed" items and the vessels.

    The "possessed" items are all kind of magical weapons and devices like flaming scimitars and flying carpets. Those items can be used by anyone, you dont have to be a sorcerer. They are "possessed" by (have bound to them) the weakest of spirits with an inteligence of an animal, set to a single task- to produce flame, to fly etc. The most complex of those devices could be clockwork automatons- powered and controled by legions of minor spirits ech bund to a certain part of the device, but because of both the number of diferent sometimes antagonistic spirits used in its construction, and their low inteligence their tasks would probably have to be simple. In game rules this could be represented by the stupid rule.

    The vessels are for binding the more powerful spirits, because those entieties are inteligent and dangerous they are used only by sorcerers. All kinds of gennie lamps are in this category. They are used to contain a spirit when its not needed. When a sorcerer wants to cast a spell he has to "open" the vessel and allow the spirit to come out. Then he binds it to himself and comands certain tasks or wishes- those tasks and whishes are the spells. The whishes are represented by lores of magic - diferent spirits have diferent "fields of expertiese", while the spirit harming the sorseror who wasnt able to control it is represented by the miscast rolls.
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)14:42 No.16410185

    Why have Infantry Bowman when you can have Arquebus Infantry?
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)14:43 No.16410205
    because warmaster araby army has them and doesent have arquebus Infantry?
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)14:44 No.16410207

    Goddamnit, Warmaster.
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)14:51 No.16410255

    >The men of Araby place great faith in the bow and all the cities of Araby maintain strong bodies of archers. Although firearms are known in Araby they are nowhere near as common or as advanced as those used in the Old World and are rarely issued to common troops.


    I agree exept for the miscast roll, it was explained in Liber chaotica when they talked about exorcism. While people from the old world exorcise a person they send the demon to the warp the arabyans prefer to bind them to items. The hard part for arabyan sorcerers is not casting spells, it's binding the spirit in the first place.

    I'd rather see a rule where if the sorcerer is wounded/killed there is a small chance of the spirit getting free after the item is broken.

    Also, I think sorcerers should know how to cast spells, after all they were capable of binding the spirits. They should be of course weaker and only show real power with the aid of an artifact of doing a ritual (this would work for WFRP)
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)15:37 No.16410635
    >I'd rather see a rule where if the sorcerer is wounded/killed there is a small chance of the spirit getting free after the item is broken.

    Could work. The Spirit would act randomly moving and attacking friend and foe alike, disperse into a cloud of magical mist or just flee the battle field .

    >Also, I think sorcerers should know how to cast spells, after all they were capable of binding the spirits. They should be of course weaker and only show real power with the aid of an artifact of doing a ritual (this would work for WFRP)

    I would like to see every arabian sorcerer acompanied by a spirit of some kind. Maybe we could work it out this way-an Arabyan mage is able to cast spells but the winds of magic blow weakly so he taps into the spirit as his "power source" from which he takes the draws a specyfic wind of magic. The spirits generate the power and dispel dice by its the sorcerer who spends them.
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)15:43 No.16410704
    If they are experts at binding, I would expect them to be better at dispelling. But since they don't have much magic to draw on, they miss the strongest spells of each lore.
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)15:47 No.16410752
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    >Could work. The Spirit would act randomly moving and attacking friend and foe alike, disperse into a cloud of magical mist or just flee the battle field .

    How about all of them? If yout item is broken roll 1d6

    >I would like to see every arabian sorcerer acompanied by a spirit of some kind. Maybe we could work it out this way-an Arabyan mage is able to cast spells but the winds of magic blow weakly so he taps into the spirit as his "power source" from which he takes the draws a specyfic wind of magic. The spirits generate the power and dispel dice by its the sorcerer who spends them

    Agreed, the spirits should be a power source (they can still do thing by themselves in the case of djinn level beings) for the spellcasters.
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)16:15 No.16411057
    >How about all of them? If yout item is broken roll 1d6

    You mean both the "possessed" and vessel items?I'm not sure how we would determinate if an item is broken- maybe simply a d6 roll after the guy caring it dies with it being boken and spirit free on a roll of 1 (maybe some other effect on a roll of 2)? Could work nicely with the clockwork beasts- when one is killed a swarm of lesser spirits could take its place acting randomly or maybe the antagonistic spirits used to build would destroy each other in a great magical explosion?
    >> Anonymous 09/24/11(Sat)19:47 No.16412836
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