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    7 KB Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:33 No.16842696  
    For rp purposes in an upcoming Roman themed rpg I'd ask a few questions if anyone is willing to answer. Was it viewed as glorious, or terrifying to be conscripted into the legion? How was it viewed in Rome to be a soldier (Heroic)? Well known generals? Time period recommended for setting? Any advice on playing the part of a basic legionary would be appreciated.

    Also any pictures of Roman legionnaires looking bad-ass? Could use for character reference.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:43 No.16842787
    >Was it viewed as glorious, or terrifying to be conscripted into the legion?
    Depends on which legion you got into. There's a difference between garrison duty in Italy and a Germanic or Dacian shitfest. I imagine it was much like modern conscription, something you just went through. For some, joining the army was quite an opportunity as well. Also, conscription is less of an issue as time progresses and the Legions turn professional.
    >How was it viewed in Rome to be a soldier (Heroic)?
    Rome was largely a military culture and soldiers were at least respected. Roman men were expected to serve a term in the military before assuming any responsibilities.
    >Time periods recommended
    It all depends on what feel do you want to achieve. Please elaborate.
    Depends on time period.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:45 No.16842802
    Depends. Pre-Marian, especially during the early imperial days of the republic and the conquest of Spain, it was a meatgrinder. If you own land, you go to war as a footsoldier. Service is compulsory. This period has an increasing number of reports, polemics, etc. of Romans bitching about not having seen their family in 30 years. The republic threw away two generations of men in Spain alone.

    Post-Marian, you get more and more professional troops, and service opened to the landless mob (capita censi). Service was now elective, I think. This of course led to massive armies with no land to return to, who identified with their service and eventually their generals, leading to the era of "great men" dominating the state with armies at their backs, of course culminating in Pompey, Caesar, Marcus Antonius, and Augustus. Service in this era would have been prestigious, and it carried legal benefits for serving a full term (ie. citizenship for you or your progeny), but mostly it was marked by soldiers becoming very very loyal to the individual generals who led them.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:47 No.16842816
    Post-Augustan (ie. Imperial Rome), service is now fully elective and the legal benefits are streamlined and set in stone. People generally know how long they plan to serve (eg. 25 years) and why, when enlisting. It is a highly prestigious profession because Rome is at the height of its power and they get regular workouts on the frontiers, and with each successive imperial succession crisis, the soldiers are paid more and more. I think it was Severus who said "treat eachother well, pay the soldiers, despise everyone else" to his sons. The army in this period was marked more by martial pride in one's legion or army (eg. huge, huge rivalries between Rhine and Danube the armies - see Bedriacum), and an increasing degree of influence over the state. Rebellions and revolts could now be serious threats, and the first thing any new emperor did, especially if it wasn't a natural succession, was bribe the holy hell out of the soldiers, sometimes on the order of many years' pay.

    >Was it viewed as glorious, or terrifying to be conscripted into the legion?
    Pre-Marian, glorious and honorable, but very tiresome and compulsory service was a major issue behind several reforms and revolutions, and one could say behind the collapse of the Republic altogether.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:48 No.16842823
    What we were hoping to achieve, or experience rather, would be the height of the power of the Roman Army. A time where the Romans were seizing new and foreign land rapidly, possibly incorporating some mysticism into the mix.

    Speaking of, was it common for soldiers to worship a certain deity? Mars?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:50 No.16842844
    >Well known generals?
    Patrician aristocrats, mostly. Officers and cavalry (equites) would be the well-to-do, landed elites, because in this era you paid for your and supplied own equipment. Also, Scipio.

    Marian, as said, leads to the great populist generals like Crassus, Pompey, Caesar, Marc Antony, Augustus, basically anyone who can get themselves a military command by being one of the "populares," the populist faction in the senate, and wheeling and dealing the political scene properly. Caesar got all his commands and government assignments through political dickery, then built a military career off of it, and he's basically the archetype.

    Augustan generals are tough, because he limited the expansion of the empire, and successor emperors felt threatened by great generals, out on the frontiers, with armies loyal to their person. See Agricola and Corbulo for examples of what happens to one of these guys when the emperor gets antsy.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:52 No.16842857

    And see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Four_Emperors for what happens when the /generals/ get antsy.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:55 No.16842870
    >would be the height of the power of the Roman Army.
    This would be the Augustan system, when they were 300,000-400,000 strong, receiving phenomenal pay, and constantly working out against eachother and on the frontier. The military SHARPLY declines during the Third Century Crisis, and they never really get it back up to shape again.

    You might want to go for the era of Caesar, since he conquered and incorporated Gaul, Britain was next, Parthia is still a strong state to the East (Caesar planned to attack it and Crassus tried and failed), still plenty of hostile states in Anatolia and the Balkans. As for seizing land rapidly.. Caesar singlehandedly created Western Europe in the span of 20 years. Enough said.

    >Speaking of, was it common for soldiers to worship a certain deity? Mars?
    Mars, and each Legion had personal protective and inspirational deities, also the Emperor's person, possibly most importantly. Losing your aquila was a big fucking deal and it was kept in a shrine during peace.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:59 No.16842899
    If you're going for Imperial Rome, Mithra was quite popular. Mars, of course, as well as the Emperor's Genius (soul/guardian spirit) and that of the commander and Legion. Any foreign warrior, guardian or luck-related dieties are a possibility too, people had a more utilitarian approach to religion back then.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)22:59 No.16842907
    The legion depends on what time period in Rome that you're going for. They kicked ass for a while, but then started to become corrupt when appointed as the Emperor's royal guard. The process was slow, and the first thing that they got rid of was the helmet to save money. Then they cut back on metal armor being provided to frontline troops in favor of silver and gold armors for the legions based in Rome. Eventually you had those on the front line helmetless and wearing leather armor at best while the core legions were constantly having their golden armors reworked to a size that makes your average neckbeard look skinny.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:02 No.16842927
    Awesome stuff, many thanks. But what about devastation of the ranks, when a legion disobeyed and soldiers were killed to teach a lesson or keep discipline? Who would do this, usually? Would it be anyone in particular such as the offender and/or weaker recruits?

    I figure that'd probably be best bet for a TPK if things somehow get all out of fucking control.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:02 No.16842937
    I'd say that you'd then want to go from about the time of Julius Caesar's conquests (the Gallic Wars) up through the middle part of the first century. After the slaughter of three legions in the Teutoburg Forest during Augustus's reign, conquests started slowing down and Rome began switching to a more defensive role. The Teutoburg Forest could make for a pretty interesting setting, creating a survival-horror scenario, or you could have your soldiers be a part of Germanicus's expedition to punish the tribes responsible and reclaim the lost Eagles.

    As for the gods... Mars would have been reasonable as would Jupiter. Some soldiers also participated in the mystery religion of the Eastern god Mithras. Don't forget that if you set it during Imperial Rome some of the Emperors may also be deified, such as Augustus.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:04 No.16842948
    Decimation is the word you're looking for. It'd be one in ten soldiers executed by the commanding officer of the offending unit. This happend extremely rarely, though, usually on charges of desertion, treason and so on.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:04 No.16842950

    The reason decimation was so scary was that every tenth man was killed, be he hero or coward. They'd drag you out and have the others beat you to death.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:09 No.16842978
    I can't offer an answer on a whole-scale decimation of a legion or century, but it might have been done by the soldiers themselves to each other. If an entire unit was being punished, the traditional way (as I understand it) was by the luck of the dice.

    I'm pretty sure that a soldier who displayed cowardice and fled from battle was to be beaten to death with clubs by his squad-mates for endangering them all. Could add some extra incentive for your players not to run away, or make for some good roleplaying if one does.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:09 No.16842980

    Could I get some elaboration on the survival horror aspects of this particular forest?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:11 No.16842992

    How would it be scary, I mean. Overwhelmingly bad odds? Bad equipment?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:11 No.16842998
    Think X-COM on a really fucked up mission to get in the mood.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:13 No.16843007
    Go listen to the podcast "Hardcore History," specifically the series about the downfall of the republic. From what I gather, being a soldier in a legion was a good and bad thing.

    Good: you get to loot and kill. If you survive, probably a good way to go places.

    Bad: if there isn't fighting going on or it isn't going well, you don't get to loot and you'll probably die. And when/if you go back home, your farm/homestead's probably gone broke and been bought up by some rich guy.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:14 No.16843015
    Imagine for a second that your units gets broken up by more barbarians than you;ve ever seen, you commander gets massacred, your standards stolen and you buddies scattered. You're alone in a damp, dense and dark wood with about five thousand wild men who now hunt you and only your kit to help.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:14 No.16843021
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    Watch the first few episodes of Rome as a good example of how legionaries were treated during Caesar's time. The whole damn lot of it is good, granted
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:17 No.16843038
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    Oh, even better plot devices unfolding. What religion were the Germanic tribes? Pagan? Druidic?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:17 No.16843043
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    You're here, it's foggy, it's dusk, setting up a good camp is very difficult, your lines are distended, and suddenly a million billion Germans pop out of every fucking tree, thicket, and hill, and start hurling javelins at you. Lines are broken everywhere, no command structure is preserved, everything is completely FUBAR from the first 30 seconds, and you don't know the terrain and can barely see the enemy.

    Or, like the other anon said, this is what happened to your predecessors, and you're here to get their aquilae back.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:18 No.16843050
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    For the Republic!

    Might have a few more.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:20 No.16843058
    I enjoyed the hell out of this, although I mostly took for granted that it was factual/represented the best of our knowledge.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:20 No.16843061
    Pagan. We know little about specifics, though, which is all the better for supernatural RPG elements.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:21 No.16843065

    Polytheism similar to the Norse pantheon. Wodan, Teiwaz, Frej, etc.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:21 No.16843071

    That looks amazing.


    This would be horrifying but just imagining literally millions of giant hairy barbarians popping out of trees like clown-cars made me laugh quite hard.

    As for the Aquila being taken and getting it back, how would the Romans operate in thick forest? Burn it down? Can't imagine shield-walls work well in there.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:22 No.16843072
    Proto-Teutonic. When what we assume to be early German tribes invaded into Roman territory (the Teutones and Suebi) and gave them a lot of trouble, there are reports of them worshiping gods that sound very similar to later German and Norse gods (ie. Wothen/Woden/Odin). And burning wicker men, eviscerating/torturing prisoners, hanging prisoners, etc., all later Germanic methods of glorifying their war gods.

    If it helps, average Italian would be like 5'2", average Celt would be like 5'7", average German would be like 6'0"+.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:23 No.16843085

    Awhhh yeah scary black magic heretics.

    I'd imagine they all look like the bear guy from True Grit.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:25 No.16843097
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    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:28 No.16843128
    (Teutoburg-anon here)
    The German tribes at this time were pagans, I believe. Most druidic stuff was up in Britannia. They also had a habit of nailing captured prisoners to trees as offerings to their gods.

    Like other Anons have said, picture that nasty, dark, close-in forest, it's been raining for days and it's muddy as all get out. Your legion, and the others with you, are on your way to winter quarters and are stretched out into a long line winding through this forest. Then these barbarians pop out of no where in coordinated attacks, throwing spears at you and your friends, running in to stab a bit, then running away again. Then they do it again later. And again. And again. Until your whole group is running to get somewhere else. Anywhere else. Your comrades-in-arms are falling everywhere around you, as are the camp followers (wives, families, prostitutes, merchants). Keep in mind, Anon, how the Legions were trained to fight: as a cohesive block, where you formed up and relied on all those shields around you as you closed ranks with your pilum and your sword. This sort of one-on-one fighting isn't what you trained for, while your Germanic foes are more than used to fighting one-on-one without much to weigh them down.

    Think about this: You know that opening battle in Gladiator? Where the Romans advance all pretty-like and then suddenly go into Hollywood-fighting? Yeah, that giant melee sort of thing where the unit is all broken up would probably have gone pretty bad for the Romans. The Roman commander who defeated Boudicca in Britain specifically refused to engage the Britons unless they had open clearings and boy, did he cut through them when he engaged.

    Actually, that could be another interesting idea. You're in a small garrison when Boudicca gets her rebellion started.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:28 No.16843129
    the roman didnt operate well in dense forest

    they got raped by german again and agin in those situation

    they did however have small elite unit "antesignani" that operated as open order infantry
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:32 No.16843151
    Oh yeah, and OP, no lorica segmentata

    never ever
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:32 No.16843156
    They also had metric shittons of auxilliaries (light infantry, archers, scouts, slingers etc.). Then again, Romans relied on discipline and formation fighting more than combat skill. You don't normally get to use those in a forest. Germans were basically BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD at the time and highly skilled as individuals. They also might have used superior equipment for the situation.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:33 No.16843164

    Armor suggestions for the dreaded forest? Would it be down to leather as the Capital Romans had all the shiny?

    Also, what of siege weaponry? Any danger of friendly fire in such a dense area or would the trumpet commands be enough to command?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:35 No.16843174
    I think it was more the issue that Arminius was a Romanized, Roman-trained military leader who galvanized the tribes to set that shit up. He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew exactly how to wipe out an infantry train on the move. Perfect ambush.

    Didn't Hannibal do something similar at Trasimene? Catch them while they're all strung out, on the move, hit them before they can form up, and push them into the lake.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:35 No.16843182
    I think the wicker-men were more with the Druids, but I could be wrong.

    If I remember, the writings about Germanicus's campaign to punish the tribes that attacked basically tried to force them to engage in the open. When they couldn't, they'd find a village and burn/rape/pillage.

    Oh, I forgot to mention earlier. The guy leading the slaughter of those legions in the forest? Yeah, he was a native German who had been "Romanized" and at one point a right-hand-man to the overall commander of those legions who thought he was an amusing little suck-up. And by "one point" I mean a few days before the battle. Quintillus Varus wasn't the sharpest crayon in Augustus's coloring box.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:36 No.16843198
    Roman arms and armour were standardized. They've actually found the location of the Battle at Teutoburg, and many of the finds have Roman gear, I think. Could use that for reference.

    Romans had the best siege train in the ancient world. Look at Masada. As for heavy weaponry, they made really effective use of ballistae. Organizationally I doubt there'd be friendly fire issues.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:37 No.16843210
    >Capital Romans had all the shiny
    That's bullshido.
    Lorica Squamata is what you're looking for, maybe a few breastplates for officers.
    Siege wepons require two things to use: time and space. Getting ambushed by howling barbarians in a wood is a bit.. suboptimal for artillery.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:38 No.16843221
    na its just that, while the segmentata have a very distinctive look, it is improbalble that it saw wide, if any, use

    Most roman legionaire used galic style stuff, such as chainmail with heavy shoulder pad, mortefino helmet and the (in)famous hispanic gladius.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:39 No.16843226
    How could roman mysticism counter Germanic (BLOODFORTHEBLOODGOD) paganism? Weren't the Roman/Greek gods known for being asshats who really didn't care?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:41 No.16843243
    All ancient gods were dicks. Even the women. The greco-roman ones were one of the more tame, actually.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:41 No.16843245

    So I'm guessing raining fiery death into the forest somehow is out of the question?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:41 No.16843247
    These are mostly tribesmen so the most common footsoldier might have only had some padded clothing, if anything at all (hell, some Britons/Celts chose to go into battle bare-ass naked with their hair shocked up and their bodies painted). Some of the wealthier/luckier few might have some leather armor and the really rich/lucky ones could have some metal armor that they bought or scavenged somewhere.

    I don't think the Germanic tribes used or had siege equipment like what you're thinking Anon. Certainly nothing like a ballista or an onager, the most common thing they'd have had would probably be rams which don't do much vs. a person.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:41 No.16843249
    Actually, romans gods and greek gods are very different

    they just use the same iconography
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:42 No.16843258
    >The cowards! The fools! We shall take away their metal eagles!
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:43 No.16843266
    Soldiers were probably some of the most superstitious and religious people in the empire. They probably didn't bother much with "ZEUS PROTECT US" type religion, more along the lines of minor deities of the Legion itself, the spirit of the Emperor, the embodiment of Rome as Victor, and Mars/Jupiter. Their standards were huge deals, very revered, and they were the mailed fist of the emprah and glory of Rome.

    Germans might even have been pretty similar in their worship.. Soldiers with martial deities usually share that common ground.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:44 No.16843276
    When you try to conquer Germans, they just go set up their tents in a different part of the forest

    When you try to shoot at/engage Germans, they just move the warband to a different part of the forest
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:45 No.16843283
    >Rome as Victor
    I think you'll find that it's Roma (female), as in the rather popular battlecry 'Roma VIctrix!'.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:45 No.16843284
    Off the top of my head, I'd say keep some aspects of 40k since you're referencing it. Stalwart, stubborn faith in their divine backing. I'm not sure if Julius Caesar had been deified yet, but the ordinary Greco-Roman pantheon could work just fine as well.

    Correct. I forgot to mention that you should probably disregard the vats of flaming stuff in my description of the "Gladiator" fight.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:45 No.16843285
    Anything similar to some sort of Battle-cleric in the legion? Anything that could be equal to some sort of mage or patron of a deity?

    I wouldn't want Romans to be using much magic other than buffing with some sort of God's grace.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:46 No.16843305
    Surprisingly, that tactic seems to work just as well almost 2000 years later.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:48 No.16843324
    Especially the women, sometimes.

    Look up Artemis. She was the bitchiest of them all, at a guess. Compare:

    Athena is seen by somebody deliberately spying on her while she bathes. She takes away his sight, but gives him the gift of prophesy to make up for it.

    Artemis is accidentally spotted by her most devoted follower bathing. She turns him into a stag and sets all his hounds loose on him, to tear him to shreds.

    One of these things is not like the other.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:51 No.16843362
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    So tsun tsun~
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:52 No.16843363
    Nothing historical, though if you want to use the spirit of the legion/century/etc as a point of worship for the soldiers, then you could use the signiferi as an option for those who could call upon the powers of the divine. These were the guys who carried the icons of the centuries, the legion, the emperor, etc.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:53 No.16843380
    Also give them fasces. Just for fun.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:54 No.16843389

    That's slightly more Greek, I think. While the Romans did subsume many Greek deities, their versions tend to be more overtly paternalistic. Mars, for example, is a much more beneficient "warrior-protector" god, while Greek Ares is more of a kill/maim/slaughter god of bloodlust.
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:55 No.16843401

    So.. glorious golden blinding rays of light vs terrifying barbarian blood magic. Sounds awesome.

    ..But I'm guessing the Romans never got those Aquila back? Or did they?
    >> Anonymous 11/04/11(Fri)23:57 No.16843422
    Not quite. At several points in the Iliad and Odyssey, Ares is a whole lot more than carnage-slaughter-all-the-time. The poet probably just needed an antagonist to pair up against Athena.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:02 No.16843457
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    C'mon, I'm not just an antagonist.
    I'm an engaging individual in my own right, playful if a touch misunderstood.
    Just worship me, c'mon!
    Alright, good, now kill that guy, and everyone he likes.
    Don't look at me like that, just do it.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:02 No.16843460
    If I remember they got at least one the eagles back, possibly two. It's been some time since I really did a lot of work with Roman stuff, we read Tacitus in my university Latin course and he talked about the battle in the forest and the revenge campaigns that followed under Germanicus but that was 4-5 years ago at this point.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:06 No.16843492
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    So.. BBEG ideas? I feel like you could get really Horus heresy with this, the Germanic leader being Roman trained and all that.

    -The party as well, their story. I'll probably run them as the backup for the already dead in the forest, only to repeat their mistakes, separate and then ohgodthey'recomingoutofthetreesrun and try to lead them farther into Germanic lines where they either choose to go after the Aquila or run the fuck away.

    I am not the GM.. They shall refer to me as Caesar..
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:10 No.16843531
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    What, seriously?
    That's a pretty easy call.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:10 No.16843536
    romans were pretty accepting of religion. they'd prey to local dieties when traveling. They just didn't like the idea of monotheism early on.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:12 No.16843551
    For BBEG ideas try looking into Arminius, Alaric, Jugurtha, Hannibal, Pyrrhus, Ardashir, Mithridates, Attila, Boudica, Zenobia..

    Maybe read the Roman envoy's account of personally meeting Attila:
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:14 No.16843577
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    >I am not the GM.. They shall refer to me as Caesar..
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:16 No.16843595
    Yeah, if you're going for the Forest kick, then I'd say Arminius should definitely be the BBEG. Have the PCs start out as members of the first group though, that way they can get all cozy with Arminius first only for the big reveal later on. Have him say he's going to scout ahead or something so he can go rally the troops. The PCs eventually see him leading the Germans and personally kill Varus. Then they can either decide to DIE HEROES DEFFS or escape to report the defeat and risk punishment for cowardice.

    I like the Caesar idea, though.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:17 No.16843606
    Oh, that does depend on either the ability of your players to suspend their out-of-game knowledge OR not know much about history.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:21 No.16843650
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    This is a terrifying statue.. and It makes me want them to fight Varus' twisted cardaver at some point.

    Pic: The Defeated Varus (2003), a sculpture by Wilfried Koch in Haltern am See, Germany.)
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:26 No.16843704
    You know, most of the legions were left unrecovered in the forest. We can see the remains of the battle today. And we don't know much about early Germanic paganism. Which I am interpreting to mean that black magic and necromancy were possibly a feature.

    >Any of you guys majoring in ancient history?
    No, why?
    >No reason. No reason. Alright, today's mission is another routine skirmish across the frontier. The sergeant says to bring your mudding boots.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:28 No.16843736
    Dooooo eeeeeettttttttt.

    Oh, oh, and put one of the Legion Eagles in place of his head!
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:31 No.16843767
    >enlivened metal eagles as his familiars/guardians
    >make metal screeching/scraping noises when they move

    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:34 No.16843805
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    All I could think of (Pic)
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:36 No.16843824
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    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:37 No.16843839
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    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:41 No.16843879
    Something else to remember anon though it is rather minor. Serving in the north was not really a dream position for the legions. The reason being that the loot in Germania was not as desirable as the loot in the east. The gold, spices, and general wealth of the Grecian Mediterranean was really something compared with the relatively small amount of lootable wealth in the north. Remember that looting was very important for your average legionnaire as it supplemented his pay.

    Something else which is really not talked about a lot; for the vast majority of a soldier's service it was incredibly boring/tedious. It was back-breaking work broken up occasionally by terrifying and bloody battles. And battlefields were truly scenes of carnage and death. It's hard for the modern mind to grasp thousands of men engaged in close combat hacking and slashing. I don't believe too many ancient writers emphasized this but a battlefield after the end of the battle must have been a horror to behold as well.

    Someone already mentioned it but the Hardcore History podcasts about the fall of the republic and the punic wars are really helpful for anyone trying to imagine ancient battles.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:46 No.16843920
    Yeah, Eastern frontier legions were considered kind of babbyshit because they got to live in unbelievable opulence and luxury. A place like Antioch was fucking paradise on earth to an Italian farmboy.

    The Legions were used a LOT for levy work and corvette labour, building roads and such. We do know that they were fed very well though, lots and lots of meat and wine.

    To add to your description of battles, one thing I would definitely emphasize is civil war. Any battles between Roman legions are unbelievably horrible, just godawful, slow, protracted grindfests, because both sides are fighting in the exact same style without breaking. Whittling and whittling away in horrible shock action. Read the description of the second Battle of Bedriacum in Tacitus and it's just gutwrenching.

    The thing with Germans and Gauls is they fought in loose formation, relied on initial shock action, and routed fairly easily. If a Roman army could withstand the initial charge of a gang of Celts with broadswords, on an open field, they could easily dice them up and steadily push them back until they broke. Romans were the best fencers in the world, bar none.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)00:57 No.16844024
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    Thanks, /tg/.

    Awesome SPQR thread.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)01:18 No.16844210
    Thanks, OP, that was a pleasant discussion. There's an archive request put up, if anyone would care to vote for it.
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)01:26 No.16844268
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)01:48 No.16844423
    >There's an archive request put up, if anyone would care to vote for it.

    You need to get votes to archive stuff on sup/tg/ now? that sucks.

    Easymodo is back up, and archives every thread on /tg/ including this one, just an FYI
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)01:50 No.16844435
    >You need to get votes to archive stuff on sup/tg/ now? that sucks.

    I know, its horrible that you can't stick every drawthread or "what if we crossed 40k with X" thread up there for all to see!
    >> Anonymous 11/05/11(Sat)04:05 No.16845378
    You're both wrong.
    sup/tg/ doesn't need votes to archive, that's chanarchive.

    And Easymodo is still dead, it just has a redirecter now to the foolz archive that /a/ set up.

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