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  • File : 1327983397.jpg-(373 KB, 2000x2000, zanzia_map_3.jpg)
    373 KB Dictator Quest Part 6 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/30/12(Mon)23:16 No.17743619  
    INCOMING COMBAT! It seems someone has made a mess of things in the west of the country!

    Info posts to follow so everything is in one thread. Then action posts.

    Nation: Republic of Zanzi
    Information: Free Religion! Republic!
    Resources: Average Resources. Specific to come soon.
    Location: West Africa near Ivory Coast. Fictional location. To be mapped.
    Political Ties: Russia is a close friend - when they remember we exist... China has sold/loaned equipment to us before.
    Era: Near Future / Modern. Late 2012.

    Leader: President Negasso Garawa. Also known as "Xavier" - Elected President For Life.
    Race: Black Male
    History: Graduated from Moscow University with a business major. Has contacts within the Russian government.


    Still accepting proposals for flag designs (MSPaint them.) - No offensive flags please. Must 'fit' the logic of a national standard.



    Also, for those wondering why my name is "Grand Leader Quest" - it is because Dictator Quest is one of many "grand leader" quests I have in mind... when this one is done (if and when) - there are other settings I have yet to operate. Dictator is only one of many.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:19 No.17743657
    Reposting condensed battle plan and aircraft loadouts (Strike element only, not AWACS escorts.)
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:19 No.17743670

    The battle plan will be as follows: Our Mainstay will datalink with our aircraft, and look for launches and active enemy radars. Assuming that we aren't up against S-300 systems, the 200km buffer should be enough for the Mainstay to stay safe. We push in our Strike Element of 3 frogfeet NOE with our fishbeds and fulcrums a little higher, sniffing for enemy radar. Once they detect it, they'll fire HARMs at the site. We have enough airframes to get at least 30 HARMS in the air, so we'll launch 2 at each target. our Fulcrums will act as wild weasels, trying to draw SAM fire, since they have the best chance of dodging both with CM and kinematically. Once the frogfeet drop their ordnance, our helos head in and drop SF to capture the site, with the helos providing CAS.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/30/12(Mon)23:20 No.17743674
         File1327983618.png-(62 KB, 792x215, fishbed_zanzia.png)
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    Zanzian Army
    -12,500 men
    -259 scout corp
    -TAR-21 Primary Combat Weapon
    -Limited ATM and MANPAD (Anti tank and anti air) weapons - Strela-2's
    -30 BMP-2's
    - 100 Sarath mobile mortar carrier
    - 100 infantry 51mm E1 mortar
    - 10 BM-21 with conventional and napalm rockets

    Zanzian Airforce
    23 Fighter pilots
    14 Helicopter pilot
    47 Trainees
    -4 Mig-29s (Best fighters in region...)
    -3 SU-25 (Best anti-ground in region...)
    -2 Mil Mi-2 (trans helo)
    -6 Cessna 172 (Scout/Personel Transport..civy craft.)
    -11 Mi-24 Hind D
    -10 Super Tucanos
    -20 MiG-21
    -4 MiG-21 Trainer
    -2 Ilyushin Il-78 aerial refueler
    -1 Beriev A-50 AWACs

    Coast Guard
    -10 Svetlyak class patrol boats
    -26 Boats mounted with whatever weapons we had laying around. They double as fishing boats.
    -1 freighter for local shipping, armed with a 20mm Bofors from WW2.

    Military Deals
    - Discounted Super Tucano aircraft in exchange for oil and making parts for them.
    - United Aircraft Corporation Sukhoi (Su) and Mikoyan (MiG) part manufacturing in exchange for license to produce older products (MiG-29/Su-24 and down. Older like Mig-21s = easier/quicker to produce/maintain however.)
    -Zanzian Airbase outside capital built and joint-operated by Russians. 1 Fighter Wing + Misc. of RuAF.
    -Zanzian Base built and joint-operated by Russia in the remote mountains.
    -Zanzian Radar & Air Defense built by Russians, trained-by-Russian Zanzian operate facilities.
    -PMC hired to help patrol.
    Deals considered/interesting the players.
    -3rd Party Suppliers (India/Israel/Swiss) for small arms and light vehicles.
    -A navy of some sort.
    -Ranged weapons competition to pick a gun and best marksmen?
    -NV/ThermOptics for officers/spec ops
    -Grenade launchers (Universal Door Key Card)
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:23 No.17743715

    3 Frogfeet, armed with 2 anti-tank missiles each, minimum, along with the biggest thermobaric bombs we can fit, and some iron bombs, rocket pods and cluster bombs.

    4 Fulcrums, armed with a full suite of HARMs(Anti-radation missiles, AKA anti-radar), guided missiles, rocket pods and iron bombs for SEAD/Wild Weasel(Search and Elimination of Air Defence) work and 2 AA-11(IR) (Air-to air missiles, in case shit happens)

    4 Fishbeds(Mig-21s) Armed with Anti-radiation missiles, rocket pods and iron bombs

    8 Fishbeds armed fully for air-to-air to provide air watch.

    Our Mainstay(AWACS) takes off and heads at least 200km away before powering its radar, it will be the only radar functioning, searching for enemy radar and telling our pilots where to shoot by datalink.

    4 Fishbeds will cover it with full AtA.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:26 No.17743757
    Would the Cessna have been able to detect any radar before it got shot down? Or would they have no clue if it was AAA or SAMs?

    Also, let's not blow shit up too badly. I for one want to find out what the fuck's been happening here. Also, captured Ameritech would be tasty.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:28 No.17743783
    Correct me if I am wrong but can the Mainstay actually control that many planes at once (especially with a crew that isn't top notch)?
    I had something about 10 aircraft swirling around the back of my head but I could be terribly wrong
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:28 No.17743795

    We are NOT taking chances. We are going in heavy, and if we're lucky someone will survive long enough for us to take them POW, interrogate them, and then flip them to their country for delicious concessions. And if noone survives but some intel and wrecks, oh well. We are NOT taking chances.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:30 No.17743814

    Its not controlling, its just datalinks and directing fire. They shouldn't need to guide BVR active-radar missiles unless something goes horribly wrong, and as it is we only have 8 aircraft WITH active-radar missiles. If the fishbeds covering the AWACS need to fire THEIR shit, we're fiucked anyways because enemy aircraft are firing on our fucking AWACS.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:31 No.17743822
    OK. I just think that if we flatten the area, kill everyone, and it turns out that the "tanks with tubes" were SCUD launchers, we might regret going in so heavy. But still, we'll see!
    >> Not completely retarded 01/30/12(Mon)23:32 No.17743841
         File1327984343.png-(40 KB, 1536x960, Icecream and vuvuzelas.png)
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    Here's a poorly drawn flag concept.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:33 No.17743855
    Alright then.

    How is the thing with the press conference proceeding btw?
    I am rather keen on protecting our current image, and stating that we are only reacting to an unprovoked attack seems rather important in that light.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:35 No.17743875

    They could be anything from a SAM system to an MLRS to a ballistic missile system. I don't know or care. That base is getting fucked by our frogfeet, and then we can sift through what remains with our SF.

    Also, we got our mechanised infantry mobilised any surrounding the site, right? Gotta cut off any potential survivors from escape. POWs are a bonus, we just need to make sure we don't torture them.
    >> Combat Incident 2 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/30/12(Mon)23:36 No.17743882
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    -Eyes on ground report seeing something like this in the distance with scopes leaving the vicinity into the mountains and a tall rod nearby half behind a hill. (Pic.)

    -Air will be on station within 30 minutes. No long range radar has been detected thus far however.

    -Liberia has contacted you to re-assure you that this is not their doing. ZIA informs us there is no heightened military presence on the borders from Liberia. We can thank the live press feeds for this.

    -KGB Guy has informed you it might be hold-overs from the old government. They did have ties with Iraq, Syria, and Libya prior to their decapitation by the West and our own revolt here.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:37 No.17743896

    >SCUD missiles

    Alright, I don't know all that much about army stuff. But I know this is really, REALLY bad.

    Like, really bad.

    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:38 No.17743912
    I wouldn't want to call you a prophet but that looks like a fucking scud:

    Are you psychic?
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:39 No.17743920
    Also mention that it was a Cessna, which could of been carrying a helpless doctor or other civiliamn on a trip!
    We must demonise the rebels as much as possibru
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:40 No.17743932
    Scud isn't an AA system so we don't have to worry about it in that regard. still something DID shoot down our Cesna and it apparently wasn't that thing.

    Also these seem to be way more than mere bush rebels if they have access to ballistic missiles
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:41 No.17743937

    Do we know the approximate direction? Plan is still the same, except our Frogfeet will hold their rocket pods and some ATGMs in reserve to search for that SCUD after we take out the nest. We have our BMPs set up a cordon and have our SF take the camp. After we have our Hinds watching our SF, 4 air cover fishbeds will cover half our Fulcrums and our Frogfeet as they find that SCUD launcher and KILL IT. The other 4 will maintain CAP along with 2 SEAD Fulcrums at the camp.
    >> Doc 01/30/12(Mon)23:42 No.17743943
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    How in the world did that get here?

    Flatten everything. That thing must not be allow to fire.

    >Also, redone Mig-21 because i'm anal like that.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:43 No.17743953

    yeah. I am thinking that someone's playing a grand game on us and we are falling into the trap. We need to take out that SCUD fast. Odds are if there is one we are seeing, there are a few we aren't. We need to get radar and air support up and comb the area to make sure nothing goes unnoticed.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:44 No.17743964
    Once we cure AIDS, we'll be untouchable. Anyone who wages war against us will be condemned as war mongers.
    >> Doc 01/30/12(Mon)23:45 No.17743969
    Also... They're not going to fire on our troops.

    Issue an emergency notice to all hospitals in our cities.

    Prep emergency services for the shit that might happen should that thing be able to fire.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:45 No.17743970
    Can we get air superiority fighters on station fast? If that thing launches at Tropicstan, I want the missile shot down in the boost phase if possible.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:46 No.17743988

    Another thing that will happen once we cure AIDS: we will be immediately flooded with literally every single man, woman, and child with AIDS in the world. I can't wait.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:46 No.17743989
    Did our BMP get a recording of the Scud launcher?
    That would be extremely useful for propagand purposes.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:48 No.17744007

    We have 8 fishbeds, and assuming they're modern variants, they'll be carrying a mix of ARH AA-12 Adders and IR AA-11 Archers. our Fulcrums will also be carrying 2 Archers a piece for point defence. We have more than enough missiles to take it down, and Mainstay should detect launches. Still, you're right, we should alert our hospitals and emergency services.

    Thoughts on calling the UN up and letting them know we might have a CRBN situation on our hands?
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:48 No.17744008
    Also regardless:
    Press conference!
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:49 No.17744023
    >implying we won't export it at a reasonable price to all of Africa and the world.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:50 No.17744040
    A quick memo to the Security Council, perhaps?

    We don't have confirmation of the warhead though.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:50 No.17744045
    fuck fuck FUCK fuck fuck. Forgotten about that.
    It's *probably* conventional, but...
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:51 No.17744055

    Let them know its happening. But make sure we stay in control. It will be good for our image.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:51 No.17744058


    You've given me an idea. Do you think that maybe we could call up Russia? Get some Spetznaz down here?
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:52 No.17744065
    In before it turns out that's some crazy chemical weapon the previous regime cooked up.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:52 No.17744070

    Note I said *might*

    ie: We call up security council, let them know some jackass has SCUDs in our country, we're about to wipe those fucks off the map with all the fury our air force can muster.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:52 No.17744071
    If we get Spetsnaz down here, fine. I want them to train some Zanzian special forces though.
    >> Combat Incident 2 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/30/12(Mon)23:52 No.17744073
    - SCUD-B has launched and is in boost phase as our air has rolled in. Taking the initiative to get it down, one of the Fishbed pilots pulled from tree top level and got a clean lock and destroy on the rocket. The resultant explosion of warhead and unspent fuel has showered the entire base, setting everything on fire.

    -Anti-Air fire seems to be two Shilkas. The fishbed above barely evaded with minor damage as they tracked with active radar that was kept off until visual sight. Moments later, they were eliminated as planned by Aviationguy and agreed upon as others.

    -Armed forces are now in the area ready to deal with anything left...

    -Frogfeet are in the air ready for approach, give the order.
    >> Doc 01/30/12(Mon)23:52 No.17744076

    Theres no way those guys are gonna get here in time.

    We're on our own.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:54 No.17744102
    Deploy some firefighters to make sure the fires don't spread too far past the base. It's in the mountains, so it shouldn't get too bad.

    Order the frog feet to move in and as soon as they're clear move the infantry in.
    >> Doc 01/30/12(Mon)23:54 No.17744104

    Alert emergency services! Firefighting crew and emergency medical teams to the base, immediately!

    Pilots, begin your attack.

    Ground troops to move in after the attack run.

    For the Republic.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:55 No.17744111

    That pilot is getting a medal. Maybe a promotion, too.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:55 No.17744113
    Keep AA on station in case there are more. Promotion for that guy if he survives. Frogfoot pass, blow anything military (but don't just flatten everything). Move in troops ASAP while they're still fighting fires.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:55 No.17744118

    Have them deploy iron bombs on structures, and thermobarics on their second pass. Have them loiter after, and prepare for new taskings if other SCUDs launch. Have our Hinds RTB to refit for CRBN, then have our SF comb the site. Get our mech forces to cordon the area and hold position. Get our Refueler in the air to keep assets on station.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:56 No.17744126

    This. Get this guy some press coverage. Hell, get them all some press coverage. I'm thinking meetings with us, personally.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:56 No.17744127
    Proceed with caution, it should be safe to bring the Hinds in for CAS.

    Ask Russia if they have NBC detection equipment at either of their bases in our country, and if we could borrow them.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:56 No.17744131
    No thermobarics! We want as much evidence as we can to work out what the fuck just happened.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:58 No.17744152
    Also, OOC: Massive props to the OP once again. This probably the best Quest I've seen on these boards, and continues to be awesome.
    >> Anonymous 01/30/12(Mon)23:58 No.17744155
    Seconded. Also take as many prisoners as possible without endangering the operation.

    Anyone could dress up as supporters of the former regime and steal one of their scuds. We need more than corpses and smoldering ashes.
    >> Aviationfag 01/30/12(Mon)23:58 No.17744162

    Good point. Iron bombs and then loiter for movement. Any movement, slaughter it with gun runs/bombs.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:02 No.17744206
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    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:04 No.17744221
    Ten times this.
    OP is glorious!
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:04 No.17744222
    Also, a question: Do we have any ground-based air defences in place around our cities? Because if there was one SCUD launcher, I'd say there'll be a few more and we won't always have AA on station to get it in the boost.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:06 No.17744241

    We hvae at least semi-modern Russian SAM systems. To my knowledge we should have some Panstir/Tunguskas, SA-2s, and SA-8s, probably more, too.

    That reminds me, any MOBILE ground-based AA radar, turn it on now, to scan for missiles, and supplement our Mainstay. After we're done this operation, move them all at least 15km from their previous site.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:08 No.17744258

    Do we?

    Don't remember it being mentioned anywhere. I honestly believe our only AA capability is the Strela-2s.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:11 No.17744289

    It was mentioned early that we had Russia install modern air-defense radar and SAM systems. They aren't mobile though, so they aren't listed. I think. Worse comes to worse we have the mainstar orbit in a racetrack over our country for a day while we have wing-pairs of fishbeds performing intercepts and Fulcrums performing strikes.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:11 No.17744290
    I remember something along the lines of what aviationfag talked about and always thought that:
    "Zanzian Radar & Air Defense built by Russians, trained-by-Russian Zanzian operate facilities"
    represented it in the list
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:12 No.17744293
    So, OP, what's happened?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:13 No.17744297
    Yeah. We're kinda poorfag unequipped. That shit needs to be on our next military shopping list, after this furball.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:17 No.17744333
    Also, we should get our own scuds. Just for lols.
    >> Combat Incident 2 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)00:17 No.17744337
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    Yes there are static air defense systems, mostly modern. I'm distracted IRL with a police helo spot-lighting someone's house half a mile away. Just interesting considering whats going on here.

    -SU-24s have spotted, and taken out, light IFVs and some T-55s on their runs, and two entrenched positions near a cliff-side. There is a tunnel entrance. They will fire and collapse it if ordered but are holding fire.

    -Ground units are approaching the outer reaches. Preparing for the offense. Mild to heavy enemy dig-in firing back from entrenched positions. These guys are well prepared.

    -Russia has put their aircraft in the air at our capital, just in-case interception is needed.

    -AU and UN is wanting to know what is going on ASAP.

    -Another enemy Shilka has gone online and got the drop on a passing SU-24, firing manual sight with no radar from a concealed position. SU-24 is badly damaged and limping back to base with a piece of wing missing and a clanging engine.

    -Air Radar has found no more missiles.

    -Other Scud-B launcher unaccounted for.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:20 No.17744359

    Tell the AU and UN what's going on. Also tell them that these guys were definitely funded by somewhere.

    Aviationfag, how much do you know about ground tactics and fighting through cave systems?
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:20 No.17744363

    Inform them SOMEONE supplied rebels in our country with heavy hardware, back it up with radar tapes and visuals, and that we're killing them right now. Have our CAS Fishbeds take out enemy positions. Have our remaining 2 frogfeet make DAMN sure they vary their approaches.

    Although, the Frogfoot IS armored against 23mm

    (Also, Grand Leader, the Su-24 is an aircraft we don't possess, yet. You mean the Su-25.)
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:20 No.17744366
    Wait, there was another scud? Fuck.
    Hmm. I say secure area, don't collapse tunnel (but keep guns on it), then move into tunnel leaving heavy guard outside when everything's quietened down.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:20 No.17744368
    Leave the tunnel entrance open, we'll want to send troops in and investigate. Take out that Shilka ASAP. See if we can't get some CAS on those entrenched positions, a helo or a frogfoot.

    As for the AU and UN, continue the press conference and update the press as the situation occurs. Send a filed, stamped, and sealed copy of a situation report to both the UN and AU.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:21 No.17744371
    >AU and UN is wanting to know what is going on ASAP.
    Hold the fucking press conference we have been talking about for ages now.
    Also get someone to inform the AU and UN respectively in greater detail.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:21 No.17744374

    FFfffuck. I've got class at 9 o clock, grand leader. Why're you doing this to me.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:22 No.17744381

    I want every Cessna we have in the air, scout for that missing scud.

    Request the Russian's assistance in searching for it as well. As many eyes in the air as we can. If they afford to spare a satellite pass over our area, it would be very much appreciated.

    Give a short word to the parties about what is going down.

    I'm loath to send our boys into that cave.

    Fire napalm rockets. We'll sort the pieces out later.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:22 No.17744386
    I fell like we need to take that tunnel complex. Get at recon looking for potential secondary exits, and search for that other scud along it's last known route.

    Send a statement to the UN & AU indicating a vague outline of the situation, a promise of more info to follow. Ask for them to be prepared in the event those scuds are packing something nasty.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:23 No.17744389

    Next to none, I know aircraft, hence the name. We just need to get an infantry battalion there after our mechanised forces and SF secure the site. our Mech infantry can begin clearing the cave system.

    As stated, have 4 AtA Migs peel off along with 2 Fulcrums and start hunting that other SCUD.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:23 No.17744393
    Better idea: Can we gas the cave (tear-gas, or something a bit stronger)? If so, do enough of our troops have protection to operate in an environment like that?
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:25 No.17744416

    Even if we did, we don't have the CNB gear or troops trained in their usage.

    Unfortunately, its either HE or FIRE that can use.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:26 No.17744429

    First rule, never enter the fucking cave.

    If you really have to, bring out the flamethrowers.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:27 No.17744433
    Let's get some mortar fire and CAS on those entrenched positions, keep our boys behind cover to minimize casualties. Advance towards the cave slowly. Do we have any flame throwers? If not, don't just swarm in. Send in several teams of 5, spaced out. We can't be getting cramped up, it'd be easy to mow us down. The enemy are just as pressed in these caves but they're dug in, we need to be careful. This is one of those times I'd love to have nano-armor.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:28 No.17744443

    Let's take some tips from these guys, perhamps?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:28 No.17744446

    Why not just use sound warfare?

    Massive speakers into the cave system, sound bouncing off the walls ad infinitum. They might go crazy in short order.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:29 No.17744453
    Advance on the tunnel entrance behind a creeping barrage from our horde of vehicle mortars. Also use smoke to cover the advance.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:29 No.17744454

    Where exactly, are we going to find speakers, halfway through the battle?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:31 No.17744476
    We have oil, yes?
    The guys in the cave aren't going anywhere. We could always pour in a few thousand litres of crude and light a match.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:32 No.17744485

    Don't know

    What about the sounds from a jet engine then? We got some planes flying around, perhaps we can land them close to the cave system and use the sound/reverberations to do something.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:32 No.17744490
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:33 No.17744497
    You guys are assuming something that I think needs to be stated.

    You are assuming that the second Scud Missle isn't inside the cave system. We haven't found it topside yet.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:33 No.17744501
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    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:33 No.17744504
    We need to buy some Thermobarics, like RPOs, from our Ruskie pals. Lots of them.

    And the Rebels had T-55s? Add some RPG-28s to that order.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:35 No.17744522
    That'd be good , but we can't leave it to chance if it' capable of firing on our installations. Especially the nuke plants.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:36 No.17744527

    We have the airframes, one would assume we have thermobarics. I believe our frogfeet have some on their wings right now. But we want intel, apparently, not bodies. Which is why we need to spend lives to capture/kill the enemy with lead, not vaporise them
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:39 No.17744570
    I meant infantry-portable Thermos. Not air-launched platforms.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:41 No.17744589

    Oh. Well, land force upgrades for our next buy, along with some dedicated SEAD airframes and some MKIs so we can haul some REAL ordnance to a fight.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:42 No.17744604
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    Our BMPs have Napalm rockets. We can just fire those into the mouth of the cave.

    >Also. MIG-29 Done!
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:42 No.17744608
    You know when all this is said and done we really ought to erect a statue to commemorate our brave fight.
    Our hotshot pilot brofisting black Superman perhaps.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:43 No.17744614
    What a delicious image.

    CNN footage showing a jet being wheeled up to a cave, ass-first, while a whole bunch of African soldiers look on. Followed by the jet firing its afterburners into the cave, and a bunch of flaming corpses shooting out the formerly-concealed exit on the other side.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:45 No.17744638
    Speaking of, requesting update on Black Superman's activity and whereabouts.
    >> Combat Incident 2 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)00:47 No.17744668
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    >mfw gunfire for a few moments and then quiet, helo circles some, and everything moves on.
    Sure is setting the theme tonight, woo.

    Also dental appointment is a MUST for me tomorrow, ending after this post though I'll stick for immediate reactions and possible wrap-up combat post.. Tomorrow I will pick up in the afternoon with a flag vote redux, and catch up on the talks. Consider everything done after this a free action, some may be used, others wont. You basically have the entire next 12+ hours to discuss and come up with actions for the next turn.


    -2nd, 3rd, and 4th Scud has been located by ground forces, abandoned. A 5th scud is over-turned on a mountain pass blocking the road. No signs of the drivers or escorts.

    -Base has been taken after heavy fighting, the caves are still heavily held. Recon finds no obvious secondary exists nearby. Unless the network is huge... Infantry are holding the cavern entrance. Enemies seem to occasionally attempt to break out, but their number of attempts per hour have dropped dramatically.

    -Intel from outside cave, all troops are local with old-regime african-shit-guns, some of the tanks have old Libyan markings barely painted over. The manuals in some are in Libyan Arabic with foot-notes in our local dialect.

    -National Interest in our nation has risen. It seems our live-broadcast of the attack has populations in the 1st world nations enthralled and obsessed with our operations in a good way. Zanzia is one of the #1 Google'd for nations right now. (AKA: no one knew who the fuck we were until now...)
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:47 No.17744670

    Fine, alright, stupid idea.

    What about just setting a fire in the entrance and smoking them out. You don't need this flamethrower/thermal shit. Oil + fire at cave entrance plus wind blowing into the cave = death by asphyxiation. You think they have self-contained BDU's in there?
    >> Combat Incident 2 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)00:49 No.17744687
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    -Russia and EU applaud the rapid response, comparing our skilled reaction "better executed" than most NATO actions since the the Korean War.

    -Mig-21 Pilot "Andingo Swa'sin" is being hailed a hero by people and the world-internet-populace for the take-down of that Scud.

    -You are right. A typo.

    -There does seem to be a rough landing strip, we COULD land an aircraft there for the cave-plan...
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:51 No.17744706

    >Land a plane

    NO. Thats certifiably insane.

    I'm guessing the above ground area of the base is mostly secure? Bag everything that looks of note. Send in a Hind and bundle that all to the ZIA.

    We need to know EVERYTHING.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:52 No.17744715
    Maintain guard on cave entrance, pour oil into tunnels. Roll down burning tyres. Then, form a perimeter around the entrance and just wait.
    Oh, and have helis and cessnas scouting overhead for smoke coming out of strange places. If they see any, send infantry to investigate possible entrances.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:53 No.17744721

    Send warning into the cave system. 10 minutes to surrender or we fire the entrance and you choke to death on the smoke.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:53 No.17744722
    >Mig-21 Pilot "Andingo Swa'sin" is being hailed a hero by people and the world-internet-populace for the take-down of that Scud.

    He totally earned that statue.
    It shall stand as a memorial to this conflict and an inspiration to our people, showing what all citizens are truly capable of.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:53 No.17744724


    Also, since we're broadcasting. Issue calls for surrender.

    Lets see if we can bag some captives.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:54 No.17744735
    Get a mega horn, and tell the place is surrounded and if they come out, they will be treated a lot more fairly if we have to come in and get them.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)00:55 No.17744746

    We could land a Frogfoot there, they're MADE for that kind of shit, what with being the rooskie A-10. Frontal Aviation demanded it, the Fulcrum has a similiar ability for damaged/incomplete airstrips.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)00:58 No.17744781

    But for it to turn around and blast its engine into the cave??
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:58 No.17744789
    Oh EU, you so troll to NATO.

    Gentlemen, we now have international street cred.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)00:59 No.17744811
    This. Tell them that they will be welcomed into the new Zanzi state if they lay down their arms and join us, but that if they resist they will be burnt out like ants, following >>17744715
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)01:01 No.17744834

    Set up fortified positions with BMPs in defilade in front of the cave. Have Hinds patrol with AtA Fishbeds, and keep 2 ground-attack fishbeds on station at the cave. Have our frogfeet RTB and rearm with rockets, bombs, thermobarics, and ATGMs. Have our Fulcrums land and rearm for SEAD, keep our fishbeds flying with our Midases. Keep our Mainstay in the air as long as its crews can.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:02 No.17744843
    Notify the cave dwellers that they are trapped and surrounded. I doubt they have enough supplies and we have as long as need be to wait them out.

    Post troops to hold the cave entrance, along with armoured support and wait
    >> Combat Incident 2 Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)01:04 No.17744857
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    -Black Superman claims to have held the Scud-B in place, so it would launch slower, and make it easier for the SU-25 pilot to do his job. The...less intelligent people...are believing this story. Images of him holding it seem to have appeared on the internet...

    -Responses to surrender hails have been ignored, no further fire or break out attempts... pilots see no smoking locations within 50km.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)01:04 No.17744865

    Oh, before I forget. Get the UN to get a CRBN team down to dismantle those SCUDs.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:05 No.17744867
    We'd better have sent teams to secure those goddamn abandoned SCUDs. Because they need to be put under wras pronto.
    >> Slushed 01/31/12(Tue)01:06 No.17744882
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    >Go to school today
    >Come home play games
    >Forget about Zanzia (not really)
    >Mfw aviationfag coaches us to international victory

    why do i allways seem to get in on the tail end of these things?

    This was an even better read than the C-130 incident, seriously amazing job OP, yet again.

    I'm actually speechless
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:07 No.17744888
    It's even more amusing because of how many EU members are also members of NATO.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)01:07 No.17744893

    >Black Superman Sheningans

    Oh U.

    >Surrender hails ignored
    ...Whelp. Time to do this the old fashioned way.

    Check with the firefighting brigade. Any oxygen tanks/mask they can scourge up, send them to the troops, airlift using a hind.

    Outfit the team going in and... send them in.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)01:12 No.17744916

    Before we waste our troops lives, and make the international community hate us for not giving them a chance to surrender. 2 days, constant calls for surrender. Set up a 1-hour delayed live stream to the world. After those 2 days are up, smoke em out, literally.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:14 No.17744935
    Have a few people spread rumours online that Black Superman is a government agent, fighting to save all good Zanzians. Perhaps start a domestic TV or radio program about it.

    Spread the word publicly that all former rebels will be given asylum if they lay down their weapons and join us, but will be shown no mercy if encountered in battle.

    Cautiously enter the tunnels (with oxygen if possible), and see what's happening.

    OP: one or two more updates, just to wrap up this incident, would be amazing before you head off.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)01:22 No.17745010
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    Only for you.

    -Military forces in the cavern have not been found... smoking them out is seemingly not happening.

    -SCUDs have been secured and are being moved off location.

    -Above Ground facilities have been found, abandoned hastily. Several burned maps and documents have been found - possibly recoverable.

    -No further enemy vehicles located...

    -Recovered equipment further indicates that these guys have not been using the same gear as the other rebels with American gear. Though that does not preclude any links. KGB Guy says planting American gear on them and claiming them to be another CIA or Liberian funded front would scare the US off from supporting the Rebels - due to the Scud systems...
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)01:26 No.17745049

    They're not in the cave? Continue the search. Has anything else been found?

    Bag the documents, get the ZIA on them, asap. Did we capture any wounded combatants?

    >Plant american gear.

    Do it. It is to safeguard our nation. At the press conference, show off some pieces and list what we found. Include some american equipment with it.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)01:28 No.17745068

    Too much public interest. The UN will be sending a team too.

    Send in a robot to clear the cave.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:29 No.17745081
    Somehow I doubt that Zanzia has robots at hand.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:31 No.17745096
    Whelp I guess this means that we are the proud new owners of some SCUDs and tanks.

    >Several burned maps and documents have been found - possibly recoverable

    Find out what we can.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:33 No.17745114
    No planting equipment. Let's not forget our ex-KGB guy might still be working for the Russians and the Russians might be the ones really behind all this.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:35 No.17745126
    Do we *really* want a buch of shitted-up T55s as the core of our armored forces, though? Sell the fickers for scrap, buy some nice T-80/90s or Leopard 2s.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:35 No.17745130
    If, and ONLY IF we have night vision, send that special forces team in to clear it out.
    Utmost care
    carefully handle, and bring in russian and european experts to analyze and recover with high tech stuff and whatnot
    >rebel equipment
    Don't plant american gear on them because it would possibly be made an obvious lie if we find further evidence of someone supplying them with the libyan equipment. Just keep it honest in this case.
    >Andingo Swa'sin
    We shall name the Green city, to be a model to the world of virtue, "ANDINGO SWA'SIN CITY"
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:37 No.17745148
    How about just Swa'sin city? Or the City of Swa'sin. Has a nicer ring to it.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:39 No.17745160
    Anything works, just name it after him.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)01:40 No.17745162
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    - Combat has died down entirely, what forces we have carefully sent in find the caves empty... it seems the last charge, was really the last charge. The cave is seemingly a dead end.

    - INTL Community applauds out handling of the situation now.

    - Russia assures us that they did not equip those men, as the evidence clearly points to Libya left overs filtering down through Africa.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:41 No.17745177
    bring in geologists and the like to survey the cave for anything that might be hidden. Keep some military retinue to protect them.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:42 No.17745181
    Scout the caves for any resources. If they're barren, collapse the caves. I think that will be the end of this little international incident though.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:43 No.17745192
    I don't think we have to worry about the international community supplying these guys. We know they were funded by that corrupt bastard in our own administration and we now know that they were leftovers from the last regime.
    >> Dintin 01/31/12(Tue)01:45 No.17745205
    Goodnight everybody, I shall namefag from now on. I'm the guy that posted the flag with the knot thing in the center. Fun game OP, keep up the awesome work.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:47 No.17745221
    I say keep the cavern. We could expand it and use it, perhaps as a base or a secret supply dump. Hell even a potential Spec Op training base.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:49 No.17745238


    Yeah, not like we just broadcasted the location to the international community or anything..
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:49 No.17745240
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:49 No.17745246
    We NEED some spec ops. Pronto. I'd like to base them around Israel's special forces but Russia is just as good.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:53 No.17745262
    Spetznas, all the way.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:53 No.17745266
    If we're talking spetsnaz let's make sure to get trainers from Vympel group. They're the ones that were the sabotage and assassination squad of cold war era Russia. Alfa is good too, but I'd just prefer Vympel.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:54 No.17745267
    How about if we were to re-enact the entire operation every year as a training exercise?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:54 No.17745269
    Like, Blacksnaz.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:56 No.17745285
    I'm not sure if anyone has brought this forward, but this is in all likelihood what our people's culture (other than presumed English language) is.
    The language could be useful for place names
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)01:56 No.17745286
    I don't know about this exactly but it brings up a good point. We need to get some war games going. Preferably international with one of our African friends. A show of international support.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)02:21 No.17745472
    We have a SF platoon, made up of UN vets and the best pathfinders.

    They're our helicopter infantry.

    We should look into getting a squad of 4 Hips (Mi-8s) to increase that number.

    Now, on to what's next:

    Purchase the following:

    Aircraft: Su-24M2 Fencer (4 airframes, plus parts, and ordnance), Su-25 (1)(Same model as our others), Su-30 MKI (4 airframes), Mil Mi-8 (4, to supplement trooplift capability and also because they can airlift light vehicles)

    Land Force:

    Night Vision and Thermal Imagers at minimum at a platoon level, army-wide. Special Forces and pathfinders get NV optics and IR laser modules for their weapons. Mechanised infantry should also get night optics. If possible, equip all troops with at least night vision monoculars.

    Two motorised companies worth of BTR-80s and -90s, with a 75/25 thereof. They, along with the Mechanised company formed by our BMPs, will form our core strength.

    18 T-90s (4 platoons of 4, 2 spare hulls.) Full electronics, ERA, gun-launcher, and ATGMs.

    Some form of SPG to supplement our mortar. At most 2 batteries.

    SPAAGs. We need mobile air defense at a company level. I'd recommend splurging on mobile Pantsir systems. We should also get the Sa-8 system for battalion level SAM watch. (Don't forget extra/fake radar arrays)

    For actual weapons, I'd like to see us get some MILAN ATGMs if Russia won't sell us any of their kickass guided goodness, along with Dragunov SVDs and PKM GPMGs for our infantry. We should also see about starting a sniper school, equipped with the DSR-1 and some form of .50 or .416 Barret.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:24 No.17745494
    Personally, now that the rebels seem to be taken care of, it looks like we should be shifting some of our funding to the economic/industrial side of things.
    NOt too much, shit is still afoot, but if we build up a bit more of an economy, we can spend even more on awesome weapons down the road, hopefully.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:29 No.17745553
    I agree with the above. Our military is decent for what we need it for: lets start spending more on R&D (especially agricultural), farming, and resource exploitation. Also, how do people feel about beginning to put in place a plan for transitioning to democracy? Glorious President Xavier is obviously in for life, but for the sake of our nation we can't really trust anyone else afterward to be as good. I suggest that there should be a well-established plan for democratic governance in place long before Glorious Leader passes away, which with our continued increases in wealth and education should work well. Thoughts?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:30 No.17745558

    That shopping list may be just a bit expensive for our present budget, as cool as it is. We are a pretty small nation, and our current Airforce is frankly one of the best-equipped in West Africa.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:33 No.17745577
    Did we provide military security for NeoTekz labs? If not, then we should. Also, we should give them the requested funding.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:37 No.17745606
    Lets put more R&D into getting an efficient system of agriculture going. Maybe set a longterm goal of becoming something like the bread basket for western Africa.
    That'll net us some UN protection too. Can't let anything happen to the nation thats keeping the region from starving.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:37 No.17745607
    I think we should keep that on hold for a while. I've thought about this for long before the quest existed, and the problem with having a 'president for life' succeeded by democracy is that it makes you a much bigger target for assassination. Your current safeguard against assassination is that anyone who takes your place will be worse, but if your death means that there will be elections..
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:42 No.17745645
    >bread basket
    But that's not particularly profitable.
    I think it might be worthwhile to put some investment into the practice of using algae farms to produce high-protein food with maximum efficiency, to export to food-impoverished neighbours. Maybe we could look to 1st world scientists for a contract for them to start such an operation in our country.
    >Lake, nowspre
    It's worth noting that Ghana has the largest man-made lake, I guess. It could be relevant to algae mass-production.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:47 No.17745671
    Before this latest incident kicked off we were talking about instituting some kind of Swedish-cum-Israeli National Service.

    Can we finish that discussion now? I really like the idea of all the young men and women in the country having to do 18 months of national service when they turn 18. They do intense basic training for however long that takes and then get sent off to do technical training and various jobs. Make sure to make it clear that it isn't just conscription but a wider national service which includes stuff like relief work, firefighting, government bureaucracy, etc, etc as well as the typical military stuff.

    It would give the people a sense of national unity as well as giving the young people skills and abilities to enter the labour market should they not be interested in further education.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:47 No.17745675
    I don't see much wrong with your shopping list, but do remind you that our second gold mine isn't operational yet, nor our in-land oil fields. We won't be able to buy all of this at once, maybe just one item for now.

    Also, I believe we should hold out a little longer, and see if our recent military action and international prestige will make Israel reconsider selling us shipments of and licenses for the STAR-21 and Negev LMG. This would allow us to use a single round for most of the military and aid in providing spare parts as most of the components of the TAR-21 and STAR-21 are interchangeable.

    As for training for our specops, we could call up our contacts in Russia to find retired Spetznaz to come to our nation as trainers.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)02:54 No.17745714
    Agreeing with this.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)02:56 No.17745724

    The SVD and PKM share ammo commonality with out BMP's coax, so there's that, too. We could also go for the Weapons platoons having PKMs and our fireteams carrying STAR-21s.


    We don't need to buy it all at once. As it stands, I personally think that the NV optics and Su-30s are top-tier in procurement need. The Su-30 is able to carry more ordnance, faster, and farther than anything except our frogfeet, but the MKI can do SEAD and AShW, among other things. It'd be a great addition to our Fulcrums, allowing them to worry about the sky instead of having to pull SEAD duty. Once we have the Fencer team, we'll have a full spread of aircraft that'll be able to do everything at once.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)03:07 No.17745795
    Having a thought here: Given the presence of subs off our coast, what do people feel about buying one or two ASW helos? Probably wouldn't cost a vast amount, but would give us a better chance of patrolling our coast effectively and working out what's going on.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)03:11 No.17745822
    How does an ASW helo function? I think that damaging a submarine which is probably nuclear in our coastal waters isn't so great, but if we could disable submarines and then capture them with scuba spec-ops or something that would be grand.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)03:15 No.17745852
    The subs likely aren't nuclear (if they are, they're either Russian or American, in which case sinking one has far more serious consequences than some waste on the seabed).
    Basically, ASW helos will generally hover and hang a passive sonar array into the water, seeing if they can pick anything up (you can go active, but generally don't). If you're doing an active ASW patrol, you'll also drop sonobuoys (disposable active or passive sonar senses that radio what they're detecting back to the helo) in a search pattern, then if you find anything on one go closer and use the dipping sonar to try and get a fix on the sub. If you find where it is, you get to drop a torpedo on it.

    When it comes to ASW, if you find a target there aren't really any options short of attempting to sink them unless they're trying to defect.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)03:43 No.17746012
    >The SVD and PKM share ammo commonality with out BMP's coax, so there's that, too
    A fair point.
    Then I believe the factors to consider would be political considerations (Russia vs. Israel) and performance of the weapons.
    I'm leaning towards Israel in the former factor, but I honestly don't know which performs better in the latter.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)03:59 No.17746094
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    Hey Aviation fag, are you a Merc in firestorm by chance?
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)04:01 No.17746114

    The Dragunov uses a far heavier bullet with a far larger propellant charge (7.62x54R vs 5.56x45), meaning it'll both be more accurate and penetrate body armor better. It's a far superior choice as a designated marksman's weapon.

    As for LMGs, I suppose the Negev would work, but if we take it, I suggest also getting the PKM in smaller quantites to arm our MG squads in Weapons Platoons.

    We should also look at standardising our technical fleet to all have KPV heavy machine guns. They'll have to do till we can phase them all out in favor of trucks, BTRs, BRDMs and BMPs.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)04:02 No.17746121

    No, I'm not. I was there for most of the Planes And Mercs threads when Baron was posting, though.
    >> Sunshine !!LDsxLWKaZ9x 01/31/12(Tue)04:07 No.17746147

    Just wondering, but did you have a Planes and Mercs question? If so, I might be able to help, though I'm a newer player overall.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)04:16 No.17746240
    The Negev is lighter, and allows soldiers to carry more ammunition. I believe it's also more accurate than the PKM.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)04:32 No.17746329
    I'm going to throw my vote for the Israel weapons for political considerations. 1) to give us more distance form Russia. and 2) To help our Armed forces look more like a western military and not another tin-pot dictator minions.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)04:34 No.17746344

    You'll note I agreed with you on the Negev. I'm simply saying for our Weapons Platoons (You know, Mortars/Machine Guns/Anti-tank), that THEY get the heavier PKM, as it has longer range and a heavier bullet. Our rifle platoons can have the Negev, though.

    The SVD is superior to the STAR, though, no matter what. 5.56 is only good to 600m, the SVD can punch out to at least 800m, if not 1km.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)04:49 No.17746425
    You have a point on the SVD outperforming the STAR-21 in range and armor penetration. Is that enough to balance out the logistical considerations of supplying 2 different bullet calibers to every squad in our army?

    Now that I put out the disclaimer, I agree with you.

    Dragunov's for our Designated Marksman in each squad, the Negev for as our standard squad support LMG, and PKM's for weapon platoons.

    Also, I support the idea of a mandatory National Service.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)04:49 No.17746427
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    Hey Aviationfag, I was the one that brought the STAR/Negevs up and I looked at it like using the AK family of weapons for rifle, LMG, and DMR
    (though Negev is not of TAR family). Same controls, easy enough to cross-train on, and spare parts as well. Also, our ammo factory (mentioned in the earlier thread) was only making 556 for our TAR-21s.

    I considered the logistics of ammo, weapons training, spare parts, and using a platform that is from a fairly non-aligned nation. Yes Israel is a US ally, but not an outright NATO member and they act on their own accord and are not a US puppet.

    Politically, I wanted our nation to not become further dependent on the Russians for their equipment and support. Working with Brazil and Israel and creating a network of nations we can work with is better than becoming reliant on just one and becoming their puppet. I think we should hold off on India as well as they have supplied us with a lot and I dont want us too reliant on them as well.

    That being said, I support the use of PKMs for higher level weapons teams and SVUs (bullpup SVDs; better for use in jungles and caves and urban areas and less issue of barrel whip and string shots. I digress...). Our domestic industry will begin tooling for 762x54R as well.

    Also, damn good job on the air strike. I got home from work and caught up on the old thread and this and it was very much a FUCK YEAH moment.

    PIC RELATED: SVU (Bullpup Dragunov)
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)04:53 No.17746452

    The ENTIRE point of a DMR is to enhance a squad's ranged combat ability beyond normal rifle range. 5.56 just doesn't have kinetic energy to do that. I'll agree that SVUs for jungle units would be a plus if someone is selling, but at the end of the day the logistics cost will have to be ate, besides, we already have x54R, what with our BMPs. and since we'll be getting more of them, and BTRs, we'll be getting a lot more ammo commonality. Besides, with the PKM, we'll be hauling different ammo anyways.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)04:59 No.17746496
    I would propose this:

    Fireteam/Squads use the TAR/STAR/Negev system and are able to carry more of the lighter 556.

    Weapons Platoons and higher level assets use the PKM and SVU with heavier 762x54R.

    As for armor penetration, IBA (Individual Ballistic Armor) doesnt seem to be truly prevalent in African forces. Unless I missed it where IBA was mentioned by the GM, 556 should be ok as far as penetration is concerned.

    With regards to National Service: I wholly support it. With it we have a portion of the population that has technical skills and basic competency of firearms and manuals of arms. Great to draw on if things go south for the nation and is essentially a trained militia reserve force waiting to be drawn upon. Just make sure they stay happy with us.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)05:02 No.17746511
    True. I understand the point of the DMR but I am still in "This is Africa: Keep it as simple as possible" mode. I forgot our education system is working wonders. Didn't see we had the other 54R platforms as well. My bad.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)05:06 No.17746527
    I'd support national service, with the exception of those making our nation great in other ways. Studying to become an engineer, or science to work with NeoTech or similar: Great, that's more important than another frontline grunt. Otherwise, go for it.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)05:17 No.17746580
    I don't know if we want to go with exceptions.
    For better national unity, it would be better if this was mandatory across the board for all 18 year olds.
    It's only 18 months; it's not that big of a deal, I think.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)05:24 No.17746616
    lol. I wonder if I'm the only person who's following this quest who doesn't regularly browse /k/. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

    All I know is that we need lots of DAKKADAKKADAKKA.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)05:28 No.17746628
    >All I know is that we need lots of DAKKADAKKADAKKA.
    Improperly bought and deployed weapons can be just as bad, if not worse, than not having those weapons at all.
    There are considerations of political alliances, logistics, and training, before we even get to individual weapon performance.

    I don't browse /k/ at all, but I educated myself by reading up on the weapons discussed.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)05:41 No.17746711
    I don't browse /k/, but I'm not discussing ammo types and shit, that's complicated. I'm more on the domestic stuff.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)05:42 No.17746714
    >> The New Canadian Empire 01/31/12(Tue)05:55 No.17746774
    Im just going to give a few suggestions here.
    1. Have you considered looking into buying Chinese weapons? China now manufactures their own weapon patterns and several Russian weapons clones under license. We could get a deal on small arms and Helicopters? Hell we could even get some J-10s and they are leaps ahead of our mig 21s (As much as I love them). We could even look to Iran.

    We also need to look to developing a domestic arms industry. Again I would look to Iran for aid in small arms. They would probably be willing to help us by selling us equipment and machinery to manufacture G3s and that would give us a leg up on un-armored enemy infantry. Iran also makes cheap RPG clones and may be willing to help us with the same.
    Not to mention a domestic industry will create employment.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)06:03 No.17746806

    Considering Iran tried to nuke the US and just got invaded to all fuck by NATO? I think we'd rather steer clear of Iran for the foreseeable future.

    China, maybe. Some of our neighbours are chinese-backed , and we looked at them previously, but the offerings from other nations were better at the time. I'm not sure out dealings with India will go down well with them, either.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)06:03 No.17746808
    Iran and china are more trouble than they're worth as it would only invite the Americans to meddle in our territory yet again. Sticking to Russian/Brazil/India/Israel keeps us off the US/NATO shit-list and just on their radars. As for domestic industries, we have a plant making ammo and spare parts for weapons and aircraft. What we will see will be all evolutionary steps, as we cannot afford revolutionary steps and neither can our workforce at their current education levels.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)06:05 No.17746817
    1. We have, and the Chinese said that they would only sell the weapons and wouldn't allow domestic production of spare parts. So they would end up being far more expensive than other options.
    Any deals they could offer on small-arms, the Russians would be able to do the same, probably better.

    2. We already began production of our own ammunition, and are trying to acquire the licenses for other weapons.
    >> The New Canadian Empire 01/31/12(Tue)06:08 No.17746841
    >Considering Iran tried to nuke the US and just got invaded to all fuck by NATO?

    When the fuck did this happen?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)06:10 No.17746852
    Threads 2 and 3.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)06:12 No.17746861

    I support this standardisation approach; Keeping things simple for line infantry is a good idea, as much as is possible at least.

    One thing i'd like to look into is to increase and upgrade our concentration of support weapons. We have good heavy support and good basic arms, but we're lacking in RPGs/ATGMs/Man-pack Thermobarics/SAWs/etc. It's a great way to increase our basic infantry's combat potential exponentially.

    In light of that, i'd recommend Talking to the Russians to see if we can get either shipments of, or (preferably) manufacturing licences for modern support equipment like the RPG-28, RPO, SA-24 Grinch, and such to outfit Infantry teams with. Perhaps some AT-14 Spriggans for Weapons platoons. Things like that. Also, more Mortars.
    >> The New Canadian Empire 01/31/12(Tue)06:13 No.17746864
    Damn you miss two threads and the world burns.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)06:16 No.17746875
    I say to keep the Dragunov's with the basic infantry squad to provide the extended range that it offers to the squad-level.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)06:25 No.17746911
    The standardization would be nice but Aviationfag is right; despite 556s heavier rounds and capabilities, having a large caliber round at the fireteam level is needed. I've used some of the 69-80gr BTHP/OTM 556 rounds and, while they're very effective for the 556 round, they still lack the larger size and power of the Russian 762x54R. I personally still believe that the 556 is capable for what we are looking for as it has been fielded in real life successfully, but seeing as we already have the production and use of the Russian round, why not give the lower levels more firepower.

    Personally, the idea of a Tavor TAR/SVU/RPG-armed squad in some old school Rhodesian camo sounds awesome as hell.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)06:33 No.17746938
    Fair enough.

    I maintain y point on Introducing significant numbers of light support weapons at the squad level, though.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)07:06 No.17747093
    As pointed out previously the French have a very nice guided missile system if the Russians won't supply us.

    The market for infantry-level grenade launchers is pretty limited, and I doubt the Americans will sell us the licenses. So it comes down to Russia(again) or South Korea.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)09:00 No.17747755
    Off to dentist, see you guys in 4 hours or so
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)10:27 No.17748330
    I've been reading up on the Su-30MKI, and while it's a great air superiority fighter, I doubt that India will be willing to sell them to us.
    The MKI is a version customized for India by Russia, and the Indians didn't even allow their pilots to activate some of the more classified systems during wargames with other nations.

    I doubt that they will sell the MKI to us.
    The Su-30MK might be easier to acquire.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)10:43 No.17748440
         File1328024586.jpg-(319 KB, 1280x960, 0131120917.jpg)
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    Mother fuckers.

    5 wisdom teeth. The old dentist never told me this. Cavities and shit too. I WILL TAKE MY RAGE OUT ON YOU, ZANZIA!

    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)10:45 No.17748468
    >5 wisdom teeth + cavities
    Holy shit that's bad.
    Sorry to hear that, OP.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)10:47 No.17748487
    5 wisdom teeth? I thought you could get only 4.
    Also, why do people remove them?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)10:48 No.17748496
    nice one. i had my teeth done this summer.

    12 cavities. on tooth out. and one is a stup waiting for a crown. - haven't gotten to that part yet. school, that ivisit on and off and now exams.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)10:50 No.17748514
    Wisdoms have made me over-bite tight, which has ground my front teeth down flat and caused the root off another to stick out. I need oral surgery.

    Also lower middle two have no roots due to what the fuck fuck you from god's blue-print team in the genetic code.

    Front tooth right (photo), if you look close, is chipped due to frontal cavity. Another one in a molar is nearly to the nerve so drill n fill this month or have a root canal.

    And I brush. and floss.

    Its like, god...fucking damn..

    So yeah, Zanzia will continue today don't worry...just rage posting. Sorry.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)10:54 No.17748549

    Jesus fuck, I don't know about you man, but I would rather just get them all yanked and start using dentures.

    Then again I already use dentures because I crashed my truck last year and my face made contact with the pavement and it fucked my teeth up beyond reason, though my face and rest of my body was all right.

    Dentures fucking suck, but it was better than the alternative.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)10:56 No.17748567
    That sucks OP
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)11:05 No.17748625
    Dude, that sucks. Poor OP.
    >> Landric !!08xd3pE0aNC 01/31/12(Tue)11:09 No.17748659
    I have a horible feeling those SCUDs were aimed at our thorium plants. Can we make sure we have suitable defences around them?

    Also, I wouldn;t suggest planting equipment - that'll go one of two ways. Either America *did* equip them, but know we're lying because they didn;t give them any of that gear. Or they didn't, so they know we're lying. EIther way, it just puts us firmly in their sights.

    Also, pipe dream I had last night, I'd love to (at some point in the future, once this debacle is all cleared up) send the Best of Zanzia overseas to train as a cosmonaught. Can you imagine, the first Zanzian on the ISS? It would show the world we're serious about "not being crazy", that we actually give a damn about science and the future and....and all that jazz. I know it's not going to happen until we can find something the rest of the world wants though. Delicious oil? Cure for AIDs?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)11:11 No.17748677
    Speaking of which, what shape are the scuds in?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)11:14 No.17748696
    We have oil.
    But if this deal with NeoTekz pans out, and they're able to get both their nano-manufacturing product and the cure for AID's, we will put us firmly on the world stage in terms of science.

    The only problem is that our education system is still lagging behind, and no matter how much money we pump into it, the limiting factors are time and the human limit to learning. So it will still take a year, maybe more, before our education system is ready.
    >> Landric !!08xd3pE0aNC 01/31/12(Tue)11:17 No.17748727
    Also, I can't really see America supplying rebels with ballistic missiles. Even the CIA isn;t that dumb, right?

    And...we're not thinking of keeping them, are we? If we ever need to use them, we're fucked anyway. I suggest we make a big show of disarming them, maybe getting some UN inspectors to show us how to do it properly (and show off to the international crowd). The last thing we want is America or Britain thinking we could attack them in 45 minutes...
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)11:22 No.17748768
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    Hey, come on guy! Its not like it would hurt to keep them right? I mean, you don't even know what their warheads are!

    Scuds also are tactical ballistic missiles, not intercontinental, so less of a "threat" to say, USA...
    >> Landric !!08xd3pE0aNC 01/31/12(Tue)11:24 No.17748786
    I honestly can;t tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

    Poe's Law in action.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)11:39 No.17748943
    Because more often than not, they get impacted and cause a hell of a lot of pain, so they do it as a preventative measure just as they start to crown.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)13:12 No.17749812

    This is a good idea. The "disarm them" thing.
    >> 風林火山 01/31/12(Tue)13:26 No.17749959

    Just having them in our inventory is going to give aggressors pause for thought.

    As a weapon of deterence, it has its uses since any attacker will be wary of attacking a defender armed with scuds for a retaliatory strike.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)13:31 No.17750010
    @ work.

    Reading up and making post.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)13:33 No.17750033
    >Just finished class
    >Turn on summa dat NMH - Ferris Wheels on Fire

    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)13:55 No.17750243
    Damn OP, I had my 4 wisdom teeth taken out right after they broke through and it was the most painful week waiting for those fuckers to come through. Best thing I can recommend is either cold stuff like milkshakes to numb the pain or things like chicken noodle soup to ease inflammation and pain. Orajel and the topical pain killers work ok, but some people build up a tolerance to them so use only when you have to to take the edge off. Best of luck.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)13:59 No.17750309
    I think even if we keep the scuds that we
    show of checking the warheads and disarming them I they're not conventional. The international community has a thing against new players in the chemical, biological, and nuclear playground. But they don't care too much id the payload is conventional.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)14:03 No.17750352
    Seconding this. The international community won't really care about us having a few conventional ballistic missile platforms as long as we make the point of proving that they really only carry conventional warheads.
    Against our neighbours on the other hand the Scuds, even only with conventional warheads might come in handy, and be it only as a threat.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)14:05 No.17750365

    This. Bring in UN inspectors, make sure the warheads are conventional, and keep them. If they're not conventional, disarm them.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)14:13 No.17750455

    Oh, also, Grand Leader said there were some partially burned, but recoverable, documents. Go about recovering them, as well as anything else that might be laying around this camp.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)14:16 No.17750490
    SU30 seems like overkill for what we're looking for. It's too large of a tech jump for our ground crews. Going from MiG21/29s to SU30s is a big leap forward and I dont want to be tied to India or Russia for support while we wait for our crews to learn the new systems. I think evolutionary upgrades of existing airframes and systems is more of what we need.
    My thoughts too.

    I propose that instead of looking into SU30s we talk to Russia about S-300s (I thought we were but am not sure) as those SAMs have Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM) qualities to them and would be a great deterrent overall and make even America think twice. If Iran was able to get S-300s in real life, surely Russia can work out a deal for some in this thread.

    My only fear is that the Americans and their puppets are toying with us like a cat does to a mouse in an effort to make us spend more and eventually bankrupt us OR we arm up and they just swamp us and ruin our shit so we're out the money...
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)14:42 No.17750731
    In photoshop...hence late anything.

    Doing some voodoo magics
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)14:45 No.17750754
    >> Slushed 01/31/12(Tue)15:24 No.17751194
    Hey OP, any chance we can open up some talks with the US about the Liberia situation? Now that people know who we are, it would be good PR for them to be seen talking to us.... just a thought.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)15:25 No.17751210
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    --++FLAG VOTE FINALS++--

    Vote for your favorite flag.

    Runner-ups will be city flags POSSIBLY...

    I was in photoshop all this time re-making many of these flags to better quality/parts broken up
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:27 No.17751223

    Aw shit. I can't decide if I like A or B better.

    Uhhhh. A.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:28 No.17751231
    Shiiit, A or D.

    I'mma go with A.

    Yeah, A.
    >> Landric !!08xd3pE0aNC 01/31/12(Tue)15:28 No.17751236
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:29 No.17751243
    A or B, but favouring A.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)15:29 No.17751248
    Voting for A, because I like the seal.

    B could be capital city/state flag.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)15:33 No.17751307


    Also means i don't need to redo the roundels on the planes.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:33 No.17751308
    A, nice seal with a more simplistic design than C or D. B as a clear runner up
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:34 No.17751317
    D. a good combination of the 3 flags. if D is a no go then my vote goes for B
    >> Slushed 01/31/12(Tue)15:37 No.17751351

    D is cluttered, but i like the stars on it
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:37 No.17751354
    I will go with D
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:37 No.17751359
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:39 No.17751379
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)15:42 No.17751415
    Also, with the new thread soon, I will start a new thread with updated map, final flag, and military stuff.

    So we may spend a chunk of the day today resolving loose ends, collecting info, etc. Sorry for the bumpy day of 'turns.'
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:43 No.17751426
    Anyone care if I tripfag for the next thread?
    >> Landric !!08xd3pE0aNC 01/31/12(Tue)15:44 No.17751445
    Yes, we all mind, me in particular. Tsk tsk.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)15:45 No.17751449
    Nope, I think we're all good here with that.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:45 No.17751455
    But... but... I have useful things to contribute....
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:47 No.17751476
    He's joking, Anon.

    Trip if you want, Anon.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:47 No.17751480
    Nope, being useful is against global rule #192.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:48 No.17751488

    Then post as an Anon, god damn Trips are meant for OP's and Mods anyway.
    It's not like someone is going to usurp your identity as the Not-OP and ruin the thread.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:49 No.17751502

    This guy knows what's up.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)15:49 No.17751509
    What ^about^ A with the stars?

    Can't believe I missed that 'about'
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:50 No.17751516

    Ehhh. I think I like just A by itself.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)15:51 No.17751537
    I'm liking C just because the black and green looks somehow African.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:51 No.17751542
    voting for B or C
    >> Slushed 01/31/12(Tue)15:52 No.17751545
    That was my thought,

    It would mean we would have to revote though
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)15:53 No.17751560
    Wouldn't look bad, but I'd stick with how it looks for now. Could defenitely be a city flag or similar.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)15:54 No.17751569
    Maybe some sort of armed services logo.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)15:58 No.17751613
    Going with this.

    Voting closed. Making new map + posts
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)16:13 No.17751783
    For those of you voting against the Su-30, remember this.

    The Mig-29 was DESIGNED to work with the Flanker. It was designed to be a shorter ranged, front line fighter with the Flanker being long-range, heavy hitter (Like the F-16 to the F-15.). We *need* the Su-35 or Su-30MK* in order to field a proper air force. We need them because they can carry more ordnance than any of our fast movers. We need them because they can carry ALCMs, AShMs in quantity, and a shitton of HARMs, bombs, and rockets. Fulcrums just can't use the ordnance a Flanker can.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)16:32 No.17751979

    I'd still say its excessive. Do we even require the capability to launch cruise missile?

    Purchasing those craft will mean we only mantaining a very small air force that can and will be swamped, where the loss of a single craft is going to hurt us very badly.

    If we really require more craft, I'd rather look into the SU-17 or the MIG-23B variant instead. The current models are compatible with a good range of AShMs and AGMs. The MIG-23B is also dirt cheap, even by the price standards of planes of that generation.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:37 No.17752025
    >Republic of Zanzi
    >Not Zanzibar Land
    >Fail forever
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:37 No.17752031
    >We *need* the Su-35 or Su-30MK* in order to field a proper air force.
    dude. we're a tiny little coastal African country. we can already clobber most of the surrounding region.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)16:38 No.17752048

    Unit cost for the 4 will probably be $150-160 million US, and that's with over 10% markup.

    Cruise missiles allow us stand-off attack capability both inside and outside our borders. We could have them launch, loiter, and attack before our SEAD craft and strike element goes in. They can also carry more HARMS than our Flankers, while still remaining able to engage in air-to-air, because they have enough pylons to mount air-to-air missiles in quantity.

    You also GROSSLY underestimate how shitkicking a modern jet does against the usual trash in Africa. Most of our neighbours operate Fishbeds, or the chinese knockoff. A Flanker or Fulcrum, can, with IRST and its helmet targeting display, approach nose cold to those relics, launch IR missiles beyond visual range, and then move to a new heading before they even know they've been fired upon. A fishbed just can't DO that.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:40 No.17752067
    Well, we might need them if whoever we piss off decides to hire BlackFlag...
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:45 No.17752117
    BlackFlag? The militia that operated around Hanoi until the 80s?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:46 No.17752127

    Nah, that's the Blackwater knockoff PMC that Grand Leader came up with.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:47 No.17752145
    I'm ashamed I have to post this:
    >> wandering fa/tg/uy 01/31/12(Tue)16:48 No.17752147

    blackflag is the PMC that sparked the whole planes & mercs thing. the one baron (OP again on /tg/) and crew flew for.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:49 No.17752166

    Why the hell would the Russians even sell top of the line military jets to some piss all African nation. Even better, how the fuck would you afford it?
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)16:51 No.17752182
    We definitely need to wait until we're taking advantage of our inland oil fields and have the second gold mine operational.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)16:54 No.17752214

    I'm sure they'll kick ass. But a few planes are not going to stop thousands of men from marching through the jungle, across our borders and taking control of our country.

    Ultimately, planes kill well but they cannot hold ground. Expanding our airforce with older airframes will allow more funds to be diverted to improving our ground capabilities: more men, artillery, armoured vehicles/transports, helicopters and AA/AT munitions.

    Without them, our planes are going to be useless once they advance far enough to take control of our airfields.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)16:57 No.17752245

    We already have a decent ground force, but we need to upgrade it, I agree. But 4 Flankers won't break the bank. We can still get 2 companies worth of BTRs to upgrade our motorised forces, and then save for T-90s. I want to get the Flankers before the Fencers, because they're multirole, even though Fencers would fit the current hole in our capabilities.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)17:02 No.17752297
    Just had a 18 wheeler distract me with wholesale furniture from a deliver gone bad. Oh man..... $2,500 oak and leather sofa for $600...damn shamed dentist cleaning me out.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:06 No.17752328
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    Where in the hell do you live, that this ridiculous stuff happens to you day by day?

    Northampton, I bet.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:07 No.17752342
    Honestly, I'm not seeing the reason to spring for expensive Interceptors or armored divisions at all. A few S-300s and some F-4s is more than enough for a small air force. Throw in some howitzers and missiles and we''re good for most situations.
    >> Dago 01/31/12(Tue)17:07 No.17752346
    Aviationfag: It's not that we don't want the SU30s but we need to make sure we have the capital to buy them and the logistics and cash in place to support them.

    Right now, we have enough of an advantage over our neighbors we have some breathing room to get the other gold mine operational and put the money towards getting more of our oil fields developed.

    Once we get our infrastructure in place and our education and technical knowledge up to par with what the SU-30s and more advanced systems require, then we will get them.

    Personally, I think it would be cool to have Zanzi aircraft in a Red Flag/Tiger Meet sort of scenario. We just need to get our house in order to lay the groundwork for the nicer toys.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)17:07 No.17752347
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)17:10 No.17752371

    I would disagree on us currently having a decent ground force.

    At the current moment, our groundpounders are utterly ineffective at defending themselves from armoured threats and air attacks.

    The strela-2 is notorious for being nigh ineffective. The afganistans Mujahiddeens found them only effective against helicopters and prop-planes, not against jet fighters. We need a better air defence solution, preferably a vehicle mounted one.

    We also have yet to procure a light tank suitable for jungle fighting and a man portable AT missile. Until then, they're forced to rely on manpads, an utter waste in my opinion.

    Motars are good and all but their range, ultimately, is lacking. Even a single battery of howitzers (preferably self propelled) will help our ground forces massively.
    >> Fleet Admiral Anon 01/31/12(Tue)17:10 No.17752375
    @Aviationfag - Not meaning to sound rude, but dude, back off with the Sukhois! We have more than enough firepower for a small African nation. There is no conceivable way we are goning to be able to get our hands on top-of-the-line Flankers. I agree with you that the Flanker and it's later variants are just sheer fucking awesome, but we need to stay within capabilites of maintenance/piloting skills. For this I vote we get SU-24 Fencers, a Flight of 4 minimum but I'd love us to have a full Squadron. They fullfil the same role, but they aren't Bleeding edge tech and we can repair and upgrade them easily, especially to the Su-24M2 variant.

    Towards the rest of our Armed Forces, now that we've shown our airforce capable of kicking someones shit down in a very serious way, we need to get some medium to heavy armour operational for the Army. If a land war starts up, tanks can form our spearhead whilst our infantry mount up in BMPs and BTRs and follow. Can we approach the Russians for some T55's, T90's if we can get our hands on them? Failing that, we need to talk to Germany and see if they have some old Leopard 1 tanks lying around for sale, Leopard 2's would be sheer awesome but probably too advanced for them to sell to us. A Tank Regiment, similar in size to the Australian 1st (and only, lol) Armoured is about what we want. Big enough to hit hard if needed, small enough to be just about right.

    Woot, rant/ground tactial advise over!
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:11 No.17752396
    Pretty much this. The only people with the force projection to fuck with us can steamroll us anyway.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)17:12 No.17752401

    We're already maintaining Fulcrums, they're 4th gen. A 4th+ gen fighter will only require us to learn the systems. Given that we have 15% of our economy going to savings right now, I say we splurge now, just in case. I wanted to buy Fencers in the last game year, just in case we needed to do SEAD. And look what we needed to do. I know its expensive, but we shouldn't just look at the economic cost. Wtih the Flankers, we can carry up to 24 HARMS, AND iron bombs AND rocket pods AND guided missiles, without frogfeet, and still have our Fulcrums on air-defence. That means we don't even NEED to vector Fishbeds to support any strike we make. We can also see about banking on the international kudos we just got from doing this, and try to get a discount on the hardware or the maintenance contract.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:14 No.17752435
    The only people with the force projection to fuck with us are the US, Russia, China, NATO, and the EU. I think it's safe to say we have one of the, if not the, best military in the AU, outside of South Africa. If it came right down to it, I think we would give some of the major European powers a good fight, but we'd lose eventually. America wouldn't steam roll us like they did Iraq but the war wouldn't last a year. Probably only 6 months. Russia, maybe same story maybe not. Georgia gave them a pretty good run for their money. China, I can't say. They haven't been in a war for a while now and Tibet is a big problem for them.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:16 No.17752451

    This is kind of tangential, but isn't Egypt's army pretty good, too? Considering it's all been funded by America?
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:17 No.17752462
    I honestly hate the whole "fighter-bomber" concept. Speaking of interceptors, are the PAK FA and J-20 out yet?
    Exactly. I'm a huge hawk, and even I'm not seeing the need for that much stuff
    From what I've heard it's pretty terrible. Corruption and petty squabbling.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)17:17 No.17752463

    You'll note I included ALL of that in my procurement post. Also, I meant in terms of an african nation.

    BMPs are IFVs, they also have AT-5 Spandrels or AT-4 Spigots mounted, with infantry tripods for detached use.

    What we need for them are either 203s, 320s, or Russian GP-30s if they make one that can fit on our TARs rails. I also said we should buy 2 companies of BTRs (A 75/25 mix of 80s and 90s), bringing us to 3 mechanized companies. Then we'd only need a tank company to give us a proper armored formation. After that, we can look into exploring our country for more resources to exploit, while mounting the rest of our army in trucks and the occasional BTR. Remember, we just bought TEN patrol boats.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:18 No.17752471
    Egypt has a very large army, I think they have about a million troops active-duty or in reserves. Israel kicked the ever living fuck out of them though.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:18 No.17752477

    Yeah, but that was before America funded them.

    At that point, the only country in the Middle East getting money from the West (other than Saudi Arabia) was Israel.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:19 No.17752484
    Do you have any idea how much an Armored company costs? It's a rich country's game.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:20 No.17752488
    explains a lot.
    >> Aviationfag 01/31/12(Tue)17:21 No.17752494

    An armored COMPANY is anywhere from 16-20 tanks, dude. Its not that expensive compared to our new PT boats or the cost of procuring new jets and ordnance.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:21 No.17752496
    I don't think they're American funded anymore, either. Considering the recent revolution.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:24 No.17752520
    It's a matter of maintenance more than anything. Armored divisions and any type of Aviation tend to suffer in African countries.
    Last I heard we were giving them kickbacks to the tune of 500m a year. Imma google it.
    >> Grand Leader Quest !tr.t4dJfuU 01/31/12(Tue)17:26 No.17752542

    New thread here....also I'm noticing these threads aren't auto-saging @ 250 anymore...was the limit increased? From now on Ill not make a new thread till confirmed.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:26 No.17752545
    1.3 billion a year.
    >> Doc 01/31/12(Tue)17:26 No.17752546

    Actually, no. Looking at some close neighbours, Guinea has somewhere in the region of 45,000 men in the army payroll and Nigeria has 85,000.

    Granted, our airforce could take their on easily but with those numbers, our army will just drown in bodies.


    I missed that post, then. But your point about us just buying 10 patrol boats backs up the argument for not buying the more expensive planes perfectly.
    >> Fleet Admiral Anon 01/31/12(Tue)17:27 No.17752553
    Fencer's fill the role cheaper, and we have the LICENSE to manufacture the damned parts for it! I was under the impression that our Fulcrum's and Frogfeet were being maintained by the Russkies at our airbase, with Zanzi assistance/learning. A small and highly efficent/well trained airforce is great (ala Royal Australian Air Force/Isreali Air Force style), but I still think we need more multi-role fighters, at least a Squadron of Fencer's. MiG-21's are ok for us now, but eventually they will need to be replaced. If we can wait a year, Russia might be willing to sell us Flankers and then we buy 2-3 squadrons worth and replace our old Fishbeds at the same time with a much better aircraft that can do just about everything.

    Also, do we really need the Frogfeet now? I'm sure the squadron of Super Tuccano's we have for training and CAS can take over there, especially if we end up with Fencers/Flankers for our fast moving Air To Ground.

    Its not a matter of Superpowers force projecting us, its a matter of the 3 nations around us attacking with more men and armour. We only have a single company of BMP-2's. They have a 70mm cannon, and there is only 20 of em. I worry about Liberia and their recent expansion into Ivory Coast. We *need* medium tanks (T55 minimum) to deal with enemy threats. Tanks are a great asset to have, infantry will refuse to assault them in the open, they boost friendly Morale, they have BIG GUNS, and they're fast and manouverable. It also frees up our airforce from tank hunting to overall close air support of the Army and Air Defence.
    >> Slushed 01/31/12(Tue)17:29 No.17752572
    Is there a NATO country willing to sell us the M-320's? It seems we have been pretty well stonewalled by the US and its affiliates
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:30 No.17752589

    Yeah, we need tanks. T-55s or a later variant, although I doubt we'll get our hands on T-90s, as some anon earlier suggested. The Russian Army is keeping those for themselves for now.
    >> Anonymous 01/31/12(Tue)17:31 No.17752593
    The limit is 300 on most boards now. I believe some high-traffic boards get 500.
    >> generictripfag !!2gvSr5QNeFI 01/31/12(Tue)17:32 No.17752602
    I'm thinking the best way to deal with obsolete armor is CAS. Stock up on Hinds and raise a militia to deal with zerg rushes.
    The thing about tanks is that RHA protection changes rapidly. T-55s won't work very well against RPG-21s.
    >> Slushed 01/31/12(Tue)17:36 No.17752648
    India has T-90s and T-72's, Im sure we could work out a deal with them for a small number of them, as I suggested in a previous thread
    >> wandering fa/tg/uy 01/31/12(Tue)17:37 No.17752663

    what about some non-russian armor? US and company made shit is out, but there's gotta be plenty of places with stockpiles of armor laying about- shit, I'm willing to bet even with the US having cool relations with us we could get hold of a passable number of modernized M60 variants. though I am a big fan of Leo 1s or 2s, personally, I tend to agree that getting leo 2s may be an issue.

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