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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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So, /tg/, I recently had a very interesting argument with a friend of mine about one of our games.
We're the royal family of a fantasy Psudo-dark ages Britian, in a rather grizzly and dark setting where things are played realistically.
We are surrounded by foes, both within and without, backstabbing Nobles, cunning welsh Elves, hordes of rapist cannibal beastmen, Cornwall is a swampy wasteland, ruled over by an undying Cursed Lord, who sends hordes of the undead to shatter the defensive wall that has stood for generations against him and that consumes the youth of our country in droves, dying on the wall to hold him back one more night, as they've done for 300 years and of course, the fucking Scottish, who don't even need to be given super powers to be a pain in the ass.
Now, I'm the Prince-heir, my friend is the Bastard son of the King, turned bodyguard, now turned into the rising star of our army, a huge warrior known as the Bear. Recently he went and waged war on the Fenlanders, basically York. We're about 16-ish, I'm currently acting Regent since the King was poisoned, and he's starting out as one of the great warriors of the land.
Now, during the battle, he found out he /might/ be a Fenlander and that everything he's been told about his past is a lie, and the only person who knows the truth, or might lead him to the truth, is the daughter of the Chieftan he slew in the battle; which by the way was a victory for us. So, he's now got her prisioner and is bringing her home with him, to confront the King.
Now, here's the interesting part, we were talking OOC about what our characters were doing in our own PoVs, him dealing with a scouting party from one of our rebellious nobles, me dealing with running the country, and since there's been a time skip since when we were 5 and 7 and BFFs, we were talking about how our characters had changed.
He gives a fair bit, about how his character's become a more responsible person, leading men, I've seen some shit, ect. I mention how my character has become much more harsh and dedicated to the work he's doing, how he's making tough choices, like having to play the court game and be a ruthless and political (For example, blatently lying about his own father being poisoned, spreading a rumour it was just an infection so the Royal family doesn't appear vulnerable.); he gives this whole thing about how his loyalty is shaken by what the Fenland chief said. Secretly I think he sounds like he's going soft since he was giving this big, Avatar-esq, dances with Wolves angle about how we might not even be his family and how we might never have been friends since its all built on a lie. And when I told him that we might have to hang the Fenlander girl if she tries to escape and murders someone on the way since she'll be too dangerous to imprision, or to avoid a political backlash from the people, after they've been raiding, raping and murdering entire towns up North, he told me she was another PC and got very defensive saying it might be his only chance to find out who he was. I tell him that sometimes we all got to give up things we care about for the greater good of our Kingdom, we're Royalty, we live for the people, not for ourselves and his reply was that I sounded like a politically manipulative arse. I point out he's as much a murderer as I am a political arse, we're both what we need to be to protect the Kingdom, he's slaughtered an entire people, I'm being a ruthless motherfucker. Argument goes on for a while, me pointing out its a harsh world and if we're gonna get this shit under control, we can't always be kind and nice, and, once all is said and done, fuck her, she's our enemy, not my problem, IC at least.
Now, I got a few problems and a few questions for you /tg/
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Liking this
>Am I being an amoral dick bag, or am I just being a good king, my character lives like a Kingly monk, not abusing his power, doing everything for his people and is genuine in his goals to unite the Kingdom and go down in history as a King Arthur figure, even if he has to shank a bitch to do it.
>Which is worse, being politically manipulative and Ruthless, or shattering the backs of an entire people, since I feel like he's being a huge hypocrit about it, being a kind and gentle King in this world would get my entire blood line's heads put on pikes within the week, I have to be ruthless because we have so many enemies and I'm in charge of a tenuous and complicated situation, acting with dickery, audacity and subterfuge is the only way to deal with some of these problems which are killing countless swathes of my people; he keeps saying diplomacy will get us futher, and it will, we have a fair few 'allies', none of whom are going to help us deal with the Elves, stop Beastman rape parties, or deal with the cursed baron, since they all have their own shit to deal with, and 'allies' means 'People we're currently not fighting and who might, if I blow the diplomat and send them a keg of wine, send us a dozen Knights since they don't really care if another Kingdom, far the fuck away, falls', meanwhile he's a soldier, and has basically just finished wiping the blood of an entire people off his sword, but still thinks he can judge me for making hard choices.
>Wah wah, help me justify my morality /tg/

If you roleplay it out with the guy, your character may come to a decision. You know roleplaying? You know what that is?

This isn't about trying to beat your friend in an argument, this is about your characters trying to figure out where they stand. Even in the former case, whining to /tg/ about it won't improve your arguments.
>How much should I demand from him on the clause of Duty, he seems to think he can do whatever he wants, I meanwhile think he should be on a fairly tight leash since he's my main man, or will be if I can trust him; my character secretly gave up the one woman he ever had a crush on and accepted a loveless political marriage without hesitation because it was the right thing to do for the Kingdom (After all, can't have a Witch as the Queen, the fantasy-Pope would shit all over his throne in rage if I did that and the arranged marriage was very politically benificial, quelling a noble who was pretty much a blood enemy at that point)
>How much do I have to give in the name of being King, I've already given up the woman I love, his own hobbies and passions, my character is well aware he isn't the greatest candidate for being King and he's dedicated his entire life to being a better one, leaving him a crushed up ball of stress, machiavellian cunning and he's fine with that, it's what the Kingdom needs; after all, this is bigger than him; how do I instill that point in others and how much can a King get away with, since I want to have at least some of my own personality instead of just being ALL KING ALL THE TIME (For example, think I could get away with spending some more time with the woman I'll never be married to? Could I get away with a mistress? What about hobbies? How do I get rid of stress without either turning to drink, raping a scullery maid, or powdering and snorting the Royal gems.)
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>How do I deal with him going OMG YOU CAN'T HURT A GIRL, when said girl is an enemy of the state and we might have to torture/publically humiliate/execute/manipulate/gift her to a mid-level local baron with a kink for the exotic to turn into his wife and/or rape doll in return for a greater levy and Loyalty/sacrifice her in secret to summon up a demon to go assassinate someone who we can't reach, how do I deal with this prisioner waifu shit, which is made worse since she's a PC and IC my character'd feel nothing, but OOC I don't want to fuck with someone elses character, it'd be unfair. Is it acceptable to have another PC publically murdered if they get themselves into it, since I know she'll try and escape, and probably stab someone on the way no doubt, and then I'll have to kill her, it's another PC, but, she's also a tool, I might be able to finally control the uncontrollable Fenlands with her
>Am I right in thinking he's being melodramatic with the whole 'YOU MIGHT NOT BE MY FAMILY!' thing, considering we were raised together, we swore to blood brotherhood age 6, after slaying a Beastman together (Long story and he nearly died, it was a huge accident and we basically got lucky) to save our little sisters, or am I being unfair on him
And lastly:
>If he gets too dangerous, what should I do with him, I can't have an unreliable head of my army, he's currently still just a rising star, but in 3 years time, some of the generals will be more loyal to him than me, and if he decides that who sired him is more important than the boy who cared about him, was the only one who was kind to him when he came to the Palace, threw away a lot of political respect (I was young) by insisting on treating him as an equal, not as a filthy Bastard to be reviled and a body guard and who loves him; what should I do with him, what would be a safe way to get rid of this Problem.
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Shitt, nigga. You just need to be assertive.
But tell us more of the game, sounds very interesting!
No, it isn't. But I know my friend and his OOC opinion will effect his IC actions, our characters have known each other since childhood and my character secretly treats his character like a God, since he's his older brother, even if he is a bastard; and while his character was always a bit aloof with mine, there was genuine emotion there on both sides.
But since there's a time skip, there isn't any weight to that relationship, so I get the feeling he's going to ignore it and it'll be as if we were strangers (Since his character's been away training for the last few years).
So its gone from Blood brothers to 'I don't even know you'
Sometimes you gotta give your dog a treat. The girl can "escape", but let him know you expect him to show you loyalty for this favor
Sounds like you should be, IC, exasperated and possibly mildly contemptive of his character's views. Try and give him lectures on 'thinking bigger', but if he doesn't listen start treating him more and more like a pawn. If he's not going to help you with what you've sacrificed your life for, then he's no brother, he's just a dangerous and potentially useful warrior with a handy blood-tie.
Let her escape, then have some henchman kill her and make it look like she was done in by her own people
Tripcoding up so I can answer questions

What do you want to know?

Good plan, but as a PC I get the feeling she might boomerange back at us. And before anyone asks, I know she's not going to be particularly well inclined towards us, since, well, we murdered her entire people and she's might have already tried to escape once, maybe even shanked an important NPC who was our childhood friend.
if you do this make sure you kill the henchman right after the job. there can be NO witnesses
That's taking it too far. Just use someone reliable and afterwards send them off to some cushy assignment way far away from anywhere your brother lives. You never kill your own men if you want to even pretend you're not evil as hell.

Or use disposable thugs, but they are unreliable as hell.
Well: I got the statistics for an old battle from when my character's grandfather led an expedition against the (Fucking) Scottish when the largest Host ever seen tried to invade, to give you an idea of the resources we have on hand and how large your average army is.

The Estalian Expiditionary Force

Led By Klaus Gavorrne

10 units of Halbediers (300 Souls)

4 units of Crossbowmen (120 Souls)

8 units of Longbows (240 Souls)

15 units of Men-at-arms (450 Souls)

5 units of Scouts (25 Souls)

4 units of Knights (48 Souls)

6 Units of Free Riders (72 Souls)

1255 Souls
750 Infanrty
360 Ranged Infantry
25 Auxillary Troops
120 Cavallery

Fenland Barbarian Forces

50 units of Clansman
1500 souls

30 Units of Highlanders
900 souls

10 Units of Skirmishers
200 souls

total: 2600 souls

2400 "infantry"
200 Archers

FM is using Mass combat rules; our die won by basically lining up on a ridge above a steep valley and doing the whole damn barbarian mess with arrows and cavalry.
my point exactly. It's just that GM's tend to make your shady henchmen ambiguously loyal at best
So what's the religion?
and what is the tech level?
Just make your friends character marry her.
Then don't use shady henchmen. Use truly loyal ones, and if you cannot afford to 'sacrifice' them then don't murder the bitch.

Plus, I'd be shocked if many henchmen had a problem with murdering some fenwoman.

You seem to have a shocking lack of numbers there son, which is appropriate but disturbing. I mean, 48 knights total? Do you even feudalism? (Those are seriously tiny units there)
It's not about the henchies refusing to murder a bitch. It's about them going to the other guy and saying "how much you willing to pay for some TOP grade secret info?"
Have him marry her, give him a ducal title and the lands you just took. Reaffirm that no matter if you share a father or not that you are brothers and that you will do anything for him.

Also, make sure you get some other powerful retainers, that guy is a civil war in the making.
Actually...marrying him to the savage is kinda clever...if a civil war happens fewer people will support him because he is married to the enemy
If he's living in a society where the favor of a king is worth less than his fury+cash, he's in bigger trouble than I thought. This is old school Britain, cash isn't half as important as the King's ability to support armed men and nobles.

And I was more referring to the fact that a loyal henchman wouldn't be troubled by murdering her, and so wouldn't feel the urge to blab to his brother. And again, don't use anyone shady.

Decent idea, but yeah, make sure to leave him theoretically powerful but surrounded by hostile people and with lots of work. Hard to plot if you're busy being swamped with things to do while also not having a concrete powerbase. Hostile border regions are good for this, especially since he's a warrior. Just be fucking sure he isn't gonna puss out and switch to the enemy side.

Maybe put him in charge of the wall protecting you from the undead Cornish? That gives him a lot of potential power though. Maybe the scottish instead.

If so, make sure you are viewed as being offended or unhappy with it. But allowing it out of respect. Or just make him take the girl as a mistress and hope she doesn't slit his throat.
Yeah, I think we agree.
All viziers vote for marriage, but pretend like you are not very happy with it
And a description of the Cursed Baron, for your pleasure (He turned up at my characters birthday, knocked out anyone who protested, got drunk, basically ruined the entire party by being there; then walked off when it was winding down, currently I'm secretly wondering if he's actually evil, rather than just being a massive Loki-esq troll who's fucking with everyone for shits and giggles):

Hes ... not as tall as you thought. He's slender, about 5'7, has lank, greasy shoulder length dark hair, and is unnaccompanied. He also has just the one, normal, piercing grey eye, the other is a ball of blue hellfire burning in the socket and he wears a suit of stiff black leather, with a silver skull in the centre, with bloody red streaks running down from the sockets. He resonates an air of pure, vile malicious intent and a swarm of flies comes with him.
The guests nearest to him a rigid with horror, two guards make to him, big burly men, polearms ready, advancing, he doesnt glance around at them, but all of a sudden, both men are locked, stock still, frozen their eyes are the only thing moving, rotating madly in thier sockets frozen with fear.
The Cursed Baron stribes up the hall, hes feet burning holes in the carpet as he comes
Guy (NPC Gnome, an ally of the crown and one of the only races to have firearms, god bless this mad little bastard) is the first one to snap out of his fear "For the king!!"
He draws and fires the round in a blink, and it hits the baron squarely in the forehead, the baron staggers back, a hole the size of a fist in his face then cracks his neck to either side, and advances as the wound closes over
"For the sake of civillity, lets pretend that didnt happen, shall we?" he drawls
Then he gave me this:
>currently I'm secretly wondering if he's actually evil, rather than just being a massive Loki-esq troll who's fucking with everyone for shits and giggles)
You should look into
that. he can be a VERY valuable ally.
Also, get than gnome to teach you the secrets of the fire-rod!
On the other hand, as the brutal and old enemy of his people, the political fallout of that could be horrifying.

On a theoretical third hand, that doesn't mean you couldn't see about making some deals under the table. Little favors for favors. Just be cautious as hell about this for the above reason, let no one know, never make any deals not 100% worth it, and never, ever underestimate the fucker.
Yes. A secret alliance!
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He pulls somthing small and round out of his pocket
"Here, my liege- my tribute- a full half of all the wealth and riches of my lands and people"
He flicks the thing at you, it bounces from your chest, and lands on the floor in front of you, its an old coin made of iron, lowest form of currency in circulation, not enough to but a hunk of bread. Its got you on it, its also very, very old, he also doesnt have eyes, but a blindfold. But Its definetly you, it even says: Alexander I, it also says "1543-1546" (Year of the party was 1534, I was 7. So that gives me from age 16 to 19 to King it up, according to destiny, I'm currently 14 IC.)

He shrugs, then stalks over to the far left of the table, and sits down, he leans over the table, like nothing of interest is happening then when he realizes people are staring he calls "Well? Get on with this torrid affair. Some of you dont have an eternity to wait like me..."

Pic related, I have a sneaking suspicioun that the Cursed Baron is using the long dead skeletons of Psudo-romans as the meat and potatoes of his Legion, considering he's not ran out of skeletons in 300 years, either that or there are some alive people in his lands, who live only to die and become the dead, after giving birth to the next miserable generation, but a necropolis of undead romans and careful recycling seems more likely.
Aw shit, Breton!
He is a motherfucking time traveler!
Religion is Psudo-catholic, worshipping a god called Arrasha. Tech level is KNIGHTS AND KNIGHT ACCESSORIES, only Gnomes and people who are very good friends with Gnomes have firearms, and the GM has hinted that we're actually either rather behind, or very much ahead of the curve tech wise compared to the rest of the world. Also, can't get guns off the Gnomes, fuckers won't teach anyone else how to make them and they refuse to arm any whole military units with them, possibly to avoid us reverse engineering, possibly to keep a monopoly, it might be due to them not wanting everyone getting one and shooting the shit out of each other since that'd result in more deaths and they're a reasonably peaceful folk.
Naturally if push comes to shove, I can always just kidnap a few and torture the info out of them, but they're close allies, so I'd rather not if I can avoid it since you betray and torture your allies and you get a bad name for yourself and people don't want to be friends for some reason.
Myes, i see.
You definitively need to figure out the motives of Baron Skellington, though...
The way I see it your blood-brother is currently unsure of himself, you and him has always stood close, do you trust him?

You could, say, give your friend the responsibility of the girl and state that you trust him enough that his judgement about keeping this waifu will not endanger the kingdom.
If he is also having second thoughts about himself, give him some time - make him take a month off, he is a public person after all and if his morale fails it will severely impact your troops.
Just make sure to keep and eye on him. You don't want him going all Avatar on you, do you?
Of course, you are the King and you will hire spies to spy on your childhood friend.
As you stated, his ideas might become dangerous.
The main point is to defuse the situation, let him believe you have his back - that you trust him and then you say to your best spy that he should be aware and report if something fishy is going on.
On the note of shady henchmen, I do have one thing going for me. The people fucking love my family, we've been in charge ever since Balon the Bastard took over. That priest I mentioned who was talking shit about us and saying we were dicks?
The local civilians almost lynched him, the watch actually had to protect him from them rather than them taking this oppotunity to build a barricade and grasp the idea that god wants them to rule themselves.
That's right, I'm more popular amongst me people than the Church, and possibly God.
So as long as I find some evil men who love their dear old Mums and their country, I should be able to get away with some sneaky things.

On marrying him to her, its a good plan and I might do it...but it might validate his possible position as King of the Fenlanders even more, which is risky since he's a tactical genius and if that bastard runs them, then they'll be a valid threat instead of a bunch of rabble clans, within a few years.
Marry him to her.
Let them get happy.
Then have some henchmen dressed as Fenfags murder her in the castle and leave a message saying that this is what she gets for turning her back on her people.
Prior to this you have been talking to your friend about making peace with the fenlanders.
Ah, yeah, in that case I suggest talking to him, feeling his feelings towards you out, and going from there.

If he's iffy, hard to read, or even slightly hostile, figure out a way to kill the bitch or separate her from him 'temporarily' and then extend that into permanence. Possibly making her into a hostage. Make sure to isolate the fucker, preferably keep him busy murdering people you want dead in wars, but absolutely do not let him build up more popularity with the nobles and military than you have. Keep him from being able to support them. All riches and gifts (you do give your underlings and nobles gifts, right?) come from you and you alone. Not him. He leads in your name alone.

If he's friendly, explain your motivations in the context of others perceiving him as a weakness, and then kill her or disappear her with his permission. If he cares, make sure to just send her off to some nunnery or something instead.
That's the current plan, just be all rad and bro-ly, give him time, ect.
But, I need a back up plan, just incase.
As a side note, I've already decided in character I'm not going to play hide the crown Jewels with the serving staff (Despite having charisma through the roof since KING MAN), for a few good reasons, one, my 'loving' wife is the daughter of a man who came to my 7th birthday wearing royal blue, which was basically putting his balls on the Queens chin in terms of baiting the King, and was only topped in his dickery by the Cursed Baron turning up; he's also in charge of a huge bit of land the Levy of which is the core of our army, so I don't want her running to my Step-Dad and things ending in chaos; and two, learning from my fathers mistakes, Bastards can be politically troublesome (And proven by this thread)

Anything else you guys want to know about the setting? Characters? Ect?
A weird twist:
Let him retire, have a mansion for him out in the middle of nowhere and ship him and his waifu to it.
Whatever you feel like sharing!

System, for one.
Your father-in-law? he needs to die.
Poison. Make it look like a disease. or have him fall down the stairs and unto his knife collection.
Be careful not to overindulge in this sort of backstabbing. A little spice goes a long way, and too much get's you a reputation as a backstabber and poisoner. It's tempting, I know, but still, restraint. Better to dick people over politically then just kill folks left and right.
If you do it correctly you don't get any reputation at all. Accidents do happen, after all.
GURPS, I've actually got the sheet the GM made for me if you want to see it.

I'm actually planning to shore him up, since I've worked out why he's such a bitch, it's because he didn't get the position of Royal protector, it went to another Noble, since the arranged marriage thing he's simmered down, realizing daddy King loves them both just as much and just because his brother gets a toy doesn't mean he doesn't love him any less.
But, I am definetly reassigning him to the Cursed Baron's lands as soon as we take them, nice and far away, no one living there, no armies, it'll look like a reward and remove him from his power base.
So it sounds like a gamble that *might* pay off with bringing in a new group under the banner, or at least off your back. Unless it goes tits up in a horrible way of course.
And when you tell him, take him aside, in secret and tell him that he is the only one you dare trust with this. Make it seem like you are actually doing this because he is so goddamn amazing and not because you want him to rot in a tarpit
True, but every time you do it there's a chance of discovery, and the more you do it the greater the chance grows. Subterfuge is great, but it isn't so good if your opponents start dropping left and right.
Also: yes. post dat sheet
Also, if you want a general idea of my character's mentality:
I based his attitude off this:
(And got my trip from it)
I'm King, my job is to do the best for my people, even if that requires doing horrific things, giving up things I want and, if need be, using people I care about and being a complete bastard.

Also, I just thought, I might assign the Baron's lands to this guy, since there's no chance he'll turn it around in a generation and it'll be both an important task, and keep him the hell out the way, so, that'd solve any danger of him gathering an army. Unless he makes the villagers sent to him into a loyal and unstoppable force, or finds some magic items that the Baron left behind, which might turn him into the next Baron.
Which is a huge risk. Might be best to just take the land for myself.
I can't help but think of Paul Muad'dib and Stilgar, reading all of this thread.
Anyone who knows GURPS, feel free to chew this apart for me, and maybe help me reforge it into something totally sick, I'm fine with being Overpowered since, well, I got a lot of enemies.

Alexander Gavornne I


Str: 9
Dex: 10
IQ: 13
Ht: 10

Will: 15 (+10)
Per: 13
Fp: 10
Hp: 9

Basic Speed: 5
Basic Move: 5


Charisma +1 (5)
Empathy (5)
Royalty Training (15)
Impressive (12)
-Gnomish (2)
-Lachian (2)
-Estalian (1)
-Dwarvish (1)


Secret (-20)
Duty (-10)
Destiny (-15)
Gentlemans Code of Honour (-10)


Acting 14 (2)* A
Animal Handling 12 (dogs) (1) A
Animal Handling 12 (horses) (1) A
Area Knowledge (World) 14 (1)*
Connisuer 14 (2)* A
Captivate 12 (1)* H
Cartography 12 (1) A
Carousing 10 (1)
Dancing 11 (2) A
Detect Lies 12 (1)* H
Diplomacy 13 (2)* H
Current Affairs 14 (1)* E
Economics 12 (1)* H
Falconry 12 (1) A
Fast talk 13 (1)* A
Finance 12 (1)* H
Games 13 (1) E
Geography 12 (1)* H
Heraldry 13 (1)* A
History 12 (1)* H
Law 12 (1)* H
Leadership 14 (1)*+ A
Linguistics 11 (1) H
Rapier 10 (1) A
Musical Instrument (Violin) 11 (1) H
Politics 13 (1)* A
Public Speaking 14 (1)*+ A
Riding 11 (2) A
Savior faire 14 (1)* E
Stealth: 12 (4) A
Sway emotions 12 (1)* H
Tactics 12 (1)* H

*Bonus from Royal Education (talent)
+Bonus from Charisma
Jesus, your game sounds like its cheerful.
What about the Beastmen and Welsh Elves? Any plans for them?
introduce the beastmen to the concept that it is not rape if it is an elf.
Then again, beastmen seem to enjoy rape so that might backfire
Yet another person echoing that you should support him, be happy for him and don't scorn him. Then use him as a bid to unify yours and the fenlander lands.

Furthermore, you should look into getting an elite, loyal unit of bodyguards. Either semi-monastic knights or semi-mercenary foreigners with little interest of internal politics (ala the Varangian guard).
Well, the Welsh elves are complete dicks and cowards, every time someone tries to declare a fair open war on them, they retreat back into the mountains and forests, hide and ambush anyone who comes, we know there's a shitload of them as well and that they're all faster than humans and naturally in touch with magic.
As for the beastmen? They come in cycles, they're all insane, apart from the Albino ones which are cunning, mean, magically talented and lead them; they come flooding out of the wild lands every few years, roving bands of them, raping and pillaging, they eat human flesh, rape the women (Who rarely survive, but those that do sometimes get pregnant and die in child birth, no child has ever survived) and then keep going until someone puts them down by the sword.
They wouldn't be out of place in Berserk; they're combat monsters, at least they're stupid. In the past there have been attempted speciesocides against them, to put the problem down for good, but there's a problem.
And the Elves protect them.
Fucking Elves.
So naturally my plan is to burn the entire countryside down when I get around to dealing with them both, since the land they rule is too mountainous, rugged and full of bolt holes for us to ever really conquer it, it'd turn into Dark ages Vietnam.
Sounds a bit like bugbears in my game. They can only reproduce by raping female humanoids who give birth to new bugbears and always die in childbirth.

So yeah. Burn ALL OF WALES!
Whereabouts are they residing? Seems you need an early warning system with castles for the peasantry to take shelter in and/or a wall to keep them out.
>a fair open war

Hard to think of your guy thinking such a thing would exist, from the picture you've painted.

By the way, don't forget to sire/groom an heir. It doesn't sound like, at this rate, your character will survive to deal with all of this, and you'll need a strong line of succession in place to help keep the handoff as smooth as possible, whether or not from your loins.
On this note are the Elves supporting the Beastmen when they go on an incursion, or just helping protect their turf when your people try to go in?
Wales, hanging with the Elves mostly, they're, if I remember right, sharing land with the Scots. But mostly its the Elves and them causing trouble.

As a Welsh dude. I gotta agree, fuck the Elves.
Hire vikings as bodyguards.
You got welsh elves, scottish and beastmen no doubt descendent from welsh sheep-shaggers so there is BOUND to be a fantasy-norway somewhere.
Half-troll viking bodyguards, motherfucker!
They protect their turf, and an alliance is impossible since none of the Ambassadors ever come back.

That might be a good idea, if I can find some, but I'm guessing that Trolls will require human flesh, so it'd be safer going for just pure human mercs most likely.
On the other hand, if we can find some benevolent magical creatures from Dark age folk lore, the GM might let me use them as allies.

Yeah, as far as I know? I've currently got 5 years, so I'm gonna knock up my 13 year old wife ASAP.
And the fun thing? This is going to be a generation game, so I got to squeeze out enough kids to make up the next group of PCs.
Oh and any suggestions on projects that might help? Or save time in the future? Maybe make a political point?
I know that our Castle needs a tune up, since its now less a castle, more a palace and I know the GM'll use that against us when the inevitable seige of our capital comes. Our outer wall has been picked away by people looking for cheap building materials, and the City reaches beyond the wall.
So, if we ever get beseiged, shit'll get real.
Early warning system against the elves and beastmen and sponsoring local lords into building fortified castles as protection for the smallfolk.
Oh, also a question I forgot to ask.
One of my nobles has started a small rebellion, she's done this shit 3 times under my father, but was basically so useful (Being rich as hell, influential as fuck and a cunning and able politician.) that all her sly pissing about and trying to undermine him was worth ignoring. He was a good king and a kind one, but not a great one.
I meanwhile, am not going to ignore it; I need to set an example so that other nobles in the future know there's Consequences for crossing the King now; any ideas on horrific and entertaining punishments that would set the tone for them without starting an out and out riot against my cruelty?
Her men 'supposedly' butchered an entire village in a raid, according to scouts, but I have reason to believe it wasn't her men, since she's more subtle than that. The priest, I think is her fault, the raid, not so much.
Oh I wasn't trying to imply alliance. THey're elves. I was just curious about what they were doing on that thing. For one it might make a wall or some such a little easier, if the Beastmen wouldn't normally have the skillsets of the Elves available for circumventing it. Of course building it could suck like no other, not to mention manning it.

Now what I'm getting out of all of this is that the biggest external threats to the kingdom right now are the Baron of Cornwall and the Fenlanders, since the Bear et al have them riled up. Though if he's managed to make some big victories (which it sounds like he has), this might be a good time to at least temporarily pacify/glare them down, with or without an arranged marriage. Because it sounds like the Welsh are bastards but stick vaguely to their turf, you never know when the Beastmen are going to rampage, no idea what the Scots are doing, but Cornwall hits you pretty consistently, and depending on what's going on might be able to resupply his army pretty indefinitely, especially if he sends raiders after nearby battlefields he's not even involved in.

Of course he also sounds like a probably Big Bad, so who knows if you'll even be able/allowed to take him down, at least for good. Still, seems from where I'm standing like it'd be worth a more serious go.

Unless of course you and the Bear have to duke it out. Or any of a thousand other possibilities happens.
Have them both burned alive as traitors to the crown and seize all their assets
Any sort of trial you can mock up, with as much real evidence as possible of course, would be a great start.

Depending on location and several other factors, you might try a blockade of the place and ceding a portion of her lands to the Fens or the Scots or somesuch for a bit of pillage under supervision. Rebellious landlords lose the crown's protection and so on.
Burned alive isn't big enough, I'm thinking whole family put to death and her hanging from the Castle walls for a year and a day in a cage. It's got to be the most horrific shit possible, so in the future others are saying 'We could go against him, but what if he does to us what he did to the Lady Vielian?'

Using the Fenlanders? Now that's a good idea, if I can unite my people against a common foe, probably the Scots and blame them for it...yeah, that'd leave an external threat hanging over them.
Gibbets. Nice. But get the best damn torturer and cagesmith in the land to make a cage that they cannot escape from. So that if they are removed from it by some sneaky allies, they die.
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But where could he find such a man?!
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I was also contemplating Scaphism.
But, the only 2 swamps in the land?
The Fenlands
And the Cursed Barony of Cornwall.
Floating off a rebellious and probably vengeful Ex-nobless, infamous for her cunning and dickery into either of those? WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG, AM I RIGHT?!
>Oh and any suggestions on projects that might help? Or save time in the future? Maybe make a political point?

When you produce an heir, to train him, send him away from palace for 6-8 years. When your heir hits 7, send him to a farmer's stead for one year, then craftsman at next year. Make sure he spends three years at army. Basically, have him know about his subjects beforehand. Task some men to guard him from afar, just in case and make sure no one else knows where you have sent him off.
and hire some really wise philosophers to follow him around and teach him. Preferably someone who can teach him critical thinking and the art of deduction.
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How is magic in your game?

Oh, and pass my compliments over to the GM, if you please?
Seems a jolly well done game, this does
Rare and mistrusted.
We got 2 mages in court, Twin brothers, no one knows how old they are, they're my great, great, great grand uncles once removed or some such (And the grandsons of the CURSED BARON, who was once 3rd in line to the throne)
The Black and White Jesters, who spend most their time dicking about, but have so far saved several lives, made a prophecy and gave my little sister an undead Raven that hates everyone else in the world.
One of the other PCs is magic, I know that much.
Other than that? The only measure of magic we have so far is the Baron, who can casually shatter minds, is immortal and has taken over a country using a never ending horde of undead. But I don't think many mages are like him.
who are the other PC's?
Also, may i suggest centralist, monarchy. Try to undermine nobles and seize their power if you can.

Have nobles framed, make them fight each other, then one by one, seize their power.

Basically make nobles weak and dependant.
get them all hooked on coke
For a full list:
>Me: Alexander; Prince-heir
>The Bear; Cecil: Xbawx huge Bastard turned warrior
>Myra: My Wild child little sister, who may or may not have command over animals and will most likely attempt to be all Brave-esq and not married off, but nope, I'm marrying her the hell of if it comes to it. For now though, remains at my side as my beloved little sister and sounding board for ideas.
>Fenland woman: Unknown
>Lydia: Mysterious Waif who's training under the Jesters and is my right hand on magic, childhood friend, spent half my time with Cecil being all serious and half with her breaking all the rules since she was the only one who treated me like a person, not just the Heir apparent, character has had a long lasting crush on her; she's the woman he's pretending he isn't madly in love with for the sake of his duty, one of my most trusted advisors.
Also, ex-PC in the form of my older sister, who became an NPC when the player left and was quickly married off to an NPC to secure a political marriage, taking her out the picture.
I wouldn't if I were you. Weak king or no, Landlords are endowed with certain priveleges that are not to be trifled with.
It's alright if you punish through levies and tithes, burning down some villages through proxy allies and such like, but it would require excommunication for yiou to actually remove a lord from power and execute them in the manner you're describing.
Whether or not she deserves it, if you aren't subtle what's going to happen is that the other lords will think "Jeeze this new guy is a prick," and resent your rule.

You have the narrative being built up around you for a good brother vs. evil brother struggle for the crown. If you're not careful people will happily support the Bear, the leader of the army and hero of battle over his half brother who tortured, poisoned and stabbed his way into power.
>You have the narrative being built up around you for a good brother vs. evil brother struggle for the crown. If you're not careful people will happily support the Bear, the leader of the army and hero of battle over his half brother who tortured, poisoned and stabbed his way into power.

Oh holy shit, I didn't even think of that.

That makes a lot of sense. Check here:
>Destiny (-15)

And, much more interestingly, the Cursed Baron, when he gave me that coin, saved my life from a poisoner.
Like he had some vested interest in me.
What if the coin doesn't mean I'll die age 19.
It might mean I'll be dethroned aged 19. Maybe by the bear, maybe by some external force.

Think the GM could be setting me up to become the Evil tyrant King?
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Well the way you're acting you're kind of setting yourself up for it.

You should take a lesson from Alfred the Great, the first king to unite England and break the viking colonization attempts.

I mean, come on- putting people in gibettes? Spying on your battle brother and planning to assassinate his love interest? Brutal actions of slaughter and torture justified by saying "It's for the greater good." and "This age requires a strong hand to rule."
You kind of walked ontop of thiso ne
So your dm stole the opening from the Thor movie?
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>Think the GM could be setting me up to become the Evil tyrant King.

Suddenly it all makes sense. You'll have to hang the girl, probably ruin your step-father.
I bet the GM gave you a chance to kill your father for the throne?
The world is dark and evil, and you've already been forced to lie, cheat and manipulate, and over time your actions are going to be forced by be more and more drastic to keep things in line and avoid it all falling apart. You'll be forced to become a tyrant.
Your brother is going to realize he isn't your brother, leave and join the Fenlanders and lead them against you, with popular support.
At which point you'll escape, somehow, probably with the help of your witch friend; and the cursed Baron.
At which point, you'll escape to Cornwall, and join him, as he leads you back to your rightful place. As the skeletons break the wall, and ravish the countryside, you'll think its the only way, while giving yourself to the dark arts, slowly becoming more like him.
Before, finally, your brother will unite with the Elves and the Gnomes and drive you back, finding you in your shattered fortress, waiting for him, burning blue eyes, a dark brow under a ruined crown, the Witch dead, burned, the only woman you ever loved; just waiting for him, remembering your youth, as the Shining plated figure kicks in the door, wielding a beautiful, glowing sword; and doesn't bother listening to why you did it.
You're the BBEG man.
It's you.
Alright, how do I avoid going down in history as a Tyrant while still avoiding all our enemies fucking us in the ass painfully? Any suggestions /tg/

>I bet the GM gave you a chance to kill your father for the throne?
...Yes, yes he did.
When the King was poisoned, the act that led to me being Prince-regent for the moment, the White Jester appeared before me, and actually asked me, would I rather the King live, or die.
He told me that the choice would change the fate of the World. I hesitated, then decided I wasn't ready and that the Country still needed him, then told him to save him. I get the nasty feeling I'll regret it when he wakes up and turns out to have been driven mad, at which point I think the GM will subtly nudge me into mercy killing him, but still.
Think I made the right call there? What's the plan now then? I can't let things continue as they have been since my Father's reign was a holding pattern, just keeping us going while things got worse and worse, sliding down into catastrophy.

You can't. Because you will be a tyrant. You need to be a one.

But you don't need to be a BBEG, You don't need to be evil. Just remember what you are fighting for, country and for it's people. Be just and fair as much as you can be, but don't shy from the vilest acts if necessary.
Well, first things first, time to start working on my death curse. I'm probably doomed, but I'll be damned if I'll go down like a bitch.
They want a villain? By god you'll give be the villain!
The best damn villain ever seen in all of Albion!
Better start memorizing the evil overlord list
And never forget to ask yourself the question: Are we at the point where the kingdom would be better off *without* me on the throne? That'd be a kick, if you ended up putting the crown on the Bear yourself, though I don't think that's going to be required.

Still you have to admit, it'd be a huge mindfuck for the GM, potentially.
Well, for starters you mentioned that you're trying to play yourself up as a Monk like king? That's very good. Dedicated service to the church as well as charitable deeds are a good way to help shake off the trope of the evil half brother.

For the long term, this plays out well too because having friends in the church means you have a great deal of control over say, the appointment of bishops, pastors, stuff like that and can use faith as way to keep potentially rebellious vassals in line. No one wants to risk excommunication.

Perhaps, instead of using fear to enforce order, you should try to reorganize the way the kingdom functions. Organize a meeting of Ealdorman and representatives of the shire to say "Look, things are really bad, we need to be more unified or we'll be overrun by heathens."
The cornish baron paid tribute to you? That's a really good thing, even if he did it mockingly. That means he recognizes you as his liege lord.
The practice is calling a Witenagemot.


You have to remember that Feudalism isn't quite set in stone at the moment in England. These people who are nominally your vassals were within recent history independent states. The land lords, earls, reeves were not too long ago Kings over their domains. You need to give them a reason to see why sticking together is better then fracturing back into bickering balkanized states. They expect a service for their fealty.
By monk-like, I mean more he's not throwing any Masque of the Red death parties, or molesting the Kitchen staff, he's being a fair and wise king while not abusing the lower classes.
>Yeah, as far as I know? I've currently got 5 years, so I'm gonna knock up my 13 year old wife ASAP.
Isn't it dangerous to knock'em up this young? I thought 16-20 were the best years.
Well that doesn't preclude you from gettinng into the bosom of the church. Get on that tout suite!
Make sure the hats are awesome, nobles will fight to the death to wear some funky hat.

If necessary... you could martyr your brother... have it look like the heathen wench killed him.

Organize a crusade under his name, using faith to solidify your empire and try to get the pope's blessing to baptise the wildlings.


This guy knew what he was doing.
Also, read the wikipedia article i linked to about Alfred the great- it's filled with good ideas on how to proceede.
You can steal more then a few things, like Alfred's reformed military defence system-a network of fortresses, or burhs, distributed at strategic points throughout the kingdom

I think you have done an excellent job so far. Keep what you are doing but be wary. Make sure you are just and fair. Nothing can go wrong that way.
Actually... just stick with the crusade part and don't be like Eric.

Apparently it was only history that favoured him.
Embrace the villainy! enslave the elves, find a way of controling the beastmen, shave the scots! Brutally torture and execute any opposition
Don't tempt me /tg/, I want to be the Good King Arthur, not the evil king Dickass.
But imagine the profane splendour of the reign of Dicks!
Well by the sound of it, the Bear has already decided you're well on the road to becoming a monster, the Fenland girl will come between you and since she's a PC she's going to stay around, probably brainwash him with the whole 'one with nature' thing and you're going to be forced to do some Grizzly things, while your friend seems to be ignoring your position and is going to view it as villiany.
That and the Destiny, if the GM is planning this, makes it pretty obvious you're gonna have a hard time fighting fate.
The best you can hope for is to keep your dickery hidden until the GM forces it to the surface, then escape with your life and become the Lost King, trying to reclaim your land from a Court of the Dead, deep in the swamps of the Dead, fighting off the man you once looked up to as if he were a God, who stole the Kingship from under you.
>shave the scots!

Those are going to be some itchy sweaters.
Again, I have to repeat myself: Be like Alfred the Great.

Reform the tax laws, establish a navy, excercise authority by rebuilding fortresses and raising an army
You mean Grisly. It's the Bear who will be doing the Grizzly things.
This thread is fascinating.
Maybe you could talk with the GM about if he really does plan to dickify you and try to avert your fate?
If OP is still reading this, i think i am not the only one who would like to hear of how this tale continues. Drop in and storytime it when you are done!
Act in good faith, screw the nobles politically, ruin your enemys, but all that are good should be rewarded, make people paladins, become a king of the light, who occasionally does what he has to, but avoid making it so ingrained.

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