>>21795457
sweet cant wait to see whats finalized from last thread

>>21795457
Tricking real world into believing Zaritonia exists when?!

Let's get this party started.

File: 1354144055866.png-(245 KB, 1410x1062, zari.png)

>>21795457


Included is a EXAMPLE of location and size. I still need to make a map of this place. Actual island shape subject to change. Approximated land area of Cuba.

-Founding Facts-
-Large, Cuban like island.
-Volcanic
-Some mountains
-Mangrove Swamps in some areas
-Ocean with Coral and lots of Fishing spots
-Anything else?
-Note: I will handle valuable natural resources. So you guys can discover them.

Pre Colonial History Thus Far
-Mixed Ethnicity of local Indonesia, including our own local population.
-Island Religion worshiping Sky, Sea, Volcano, Swamp.
-Boat centric population
-Matriarchal Society, Women rule/council/bring life.
-Men work/war/sacrifice themselves to bring fertility in great festivals of sex. (During the tribal days. This can change in modern times.)

Add in your own ideas for the pre-colonial history! (Pre-16th century)
Future Facts
-We will eventually handle "modern" Zaritonia.
-Zaritonia will err towards Warsaw Pact during the cold war. East Germany being a close friend.
-GDR ceasing existence with German Unification, the unified Germany will still keep friendly with Zaritonians.
-Allows for a mix of old soviet gear and access to modern capitalistic equipment/economy

>>21795615
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21790927/
Original thread here.

I am still going back to it and pulling ideas. Last post was a generalization + general map.

We can go smaller or bigger with the island too.

>>21795615
You forgot that there was broad agreement on >>21794302

There could be a few provinces, allowing for slightly more tribal themes if certain tribes were dominant there in the past. Could have different customs, different dialect maybe.

>>21795678
There has been yes, but we're not to that era yet. We need to finish out pre-colonial (Euro arrival.)

Then we can bring that up in general.

I wasn't settled on it which is why it wasn't in the list, but I'll past it here.


We never talked about what happened when the Europeans arrived. I imagine they tried to institute a proper christian male dominated society. It would be interesting if they got some people to agree with them.
So modern day the split is something like:
~33% believe in a male dominated society. (generally in the places where the Europeans hung out. So they have more money, general urban.)
~33% believe in a female dominated one (Generally more rural)
~33% either believe in equality or want the rest of the country to stop arguing about it. (Generally exasperated with the other idiots)

Also

If we make the island smaller, we are given less space to do things with...but we make much less of an impact on the global map.

It also, however, makes us reliant on having imports and less likely to have exports. Which is why I felt Cuba size is good.

(Also, being where it is, makes it very very strategic to many factions and thus giving them a reason to bother with us. I could locate it further south west and be much much smaller... but again that drops our interest.)

>>21795745
You could put us due east of Australia along the tropic of Capricorn in the Indian ocean. There's nothing there.

Island originally consisted of 2 tribes, swamp dwellers and forest dwellers, after contact with colonial powers and acquisition of gunpowder (causing collective facepalms for all around, "why didn't we think of that?") the forest dwellers eliminated the swamp dwelling devils who worshiped crocodiles instead of the Divine Sisters as any sane person should.

>>21795705
>>21795745
Bigger! Bigger, you magnificent bastard! Just take over Sakhalin and make them those terrifying northern barbarian japanese, then have the Europeans be Dutch and Russian to make a Soviet that much easier but still keep the place somewhat relevant to pacific trade and strategic shit when it comes to Japan.

>>21795783
That was my second spot of choice. Just how far out into the ocean though? Be very remote? Maybe stop being indonesia and its own spot...just in the indian ocean... but still close enough an indonesian population could of made it.

>>21795802
>a Soviet
A Soviet connection or alliance, durr.

>>21795783
I'd rather go further west if the germans were supposed to colonise there. And bigger would be okay too.
So what about colonial history?

>>21795745
I personally like Cuba-size. Enough space to do things, but small enough to not really be a pain.

Also, I know we're not to that point yet, exactly, but I'd like to vote that the original colonizers of Zaritonia were the Dutch (they owned nearby-ish Java, after all), and that it later passed into German hands around 1900ish. Hence why they were pretty close with East Germany.

Just putting that there for when we do get to the colonial era.

>>21795803
Indonesians are pig-disgusting anyway.

>>21795705
Why would it become malecentric and modern in the areas though? Europeaons didn't want to deal with the female leaders? Seems farfetched. They'd have to deal with the female leaders. It should becomecmore equality in modern but more traditionally only female in rural.

>>21795803
If you put us closer to the equator, it has far more utility in the way of ocean currents, trade winds, and space launches. Assuming your OP pic wasn't completely unrelated.

>>21795813
>Dutch
>Germany
The zaritonians probably wouldn't have noticed the switcharoo anyway.

>>21795745
As a Malaysian I must say being smack in the middle of the shipping lane will really make thing interesting. We had a dispute with Singapore for years over who owns a lighthouse in the area. The islands near that region is also where the majority of stolen vehicles and sand are smuggled. An north of that is where majority of our oil platform lies.

>>21795834
Hey, in my experience, the Dutch and Germans are loads different! Like the Germans did shit in both World Wars, and the Dutch didn't do anything except get invaded by Germany in WWII.

...Okay, yeah. They're pretty similar. Point...

Captcha: taken

>>21795863
Stolen sand?

>>21795802
This could be kind of interesting. Certainly has WWII implications and opportunities for political prominence.

>>21795863
>sand smuggled
>>21795874
Yea, even though none of both sides would admit it, even by threat of death, the germs and dootch are basically like brothers of the same family. Or at least cousins. Not as much as austrians, but still.

OP quick question.
In acient history did the Zaritonians ever carve out an empire of sorts? Nothing big like Rome but conquer nearby islands and such? It might help flesh out some of the history a little better.
If not were we ever accosted by a large empire?
If we do end up using the 3 party system posted in last thread it might be cool to have some ancient rivalry one of the parties could drum up.

>>21795896
Specifically stolen river sand.Pretty much everyone in SEA go there to buy sand for land reclamation. Even our navy turn a blind eye in that region.

I like the Idea that the Zaritonians were split into relatively small warring tribes and a few more powerful city states when the Europeans showed up. There were also some very brutal wars. The Europeans proceeded to kick everyone's but with superior tech, although there was quite a bit of back and forth scapegoating amount the natives. Subsequent European administration largely converted the city states to accepting a male dominated society, while the rural people stuck to the old ways.

>>21795923

I would say no, to not screw with local ancient history. Its just better that way.

An internal empire yeah, but not "other islands" known to normal history.

We could, theoretically, make it an entirely new island chain, shrink cuba-Zari down 20% less, put the mass out over new islands, and put this west of Aussies. This would allow for island to island "local pops" that could dislike current govt. Also allows a "empire" carving stage too. In short: adding more land mass to Earth

>>21796004
Well, we need at least one nearby nation that we can conceivably launch an old fashion war of conquest on. Its just no fun otherwise.

>>21796004
>We could, theoretically, make it an entirely new island chain, shrink cuba-Zari down 20% less, put the mass out over new islands, and put this west of Aussies. This would allow for island to island "local pops" that could dislike current govt. Also allows a "empire" carving stage too. In short: adding more land mass to Earth
Doesnt really matter to me to be honest. I just thought establishing some sort of rivalry might help later in the setting. The parties could drum up support by scapegoating the rival group ect ect. It just seems the only relationship with another country we have now is friendly with east Germans. But idk its your quest im just waiting to get started lol

>>21796004
I say keep our current land mass.
I think mode equality to men and women (with a bias in rural areas) fits better then switching to male centrict soon after Europe. Sticks rltheir nose in.

>>21796071
>>21796056

Another fictional neighbor maybe. Simple solution there. Control the entire environment and just have international relations otherwise.

As for potential power projection: Imagine sea plane invasions.

>>21796128
Okay, but just remember, our long term goal is to become at least a regional power.

>>21796128
You forgot this is SEA, there are loads of pirates for hire or piracy funding separatist movement.

>>21796128
>As for potential power projection: Imagine sea plane invasions.
sounds cool actually.
What else do you think we need for ancient history?

>>21796128
So there's no chance of getting out of Malaysia and closer to Japan?

>>21796232
We can still turn our island into a floating landmass-giga-battleship and drive there ourselves.

>>21796232
Not unless majority wants that. Majority wanted to be down by Indonesia originally.

As for ancient history...

Unless we move to a new location or redo the island, I would say we're ready to move onto colonial era. So lets vote.
-------------------------

A: Move island to a new location. Add more islands. Including fictional competition.
B: Move island further from Indonesia to Japan
C: Stay where she is.

>>21796252
That's funny and all, but the idea is to be positioned such that the Russians have an easier time using us as a staging area for some kind of Asian invasion, then pull out when the Iron Curtain falls and we get all their shit.

Plus more oil deposits and a flanking position on China will make us more attractive as an ally.

>>21796266
C

>>21796266
A, move us north east a bit, more into te ocean. Other than that no real change to history

>>21796266
Best of both worlds, just put us on the edge of Malaysia that's nearest to Japan. That way we can please the majority and still use more of this guy's ideas >>21796278

Probably out past the Phillipines, which Macarthur felt he needed and which to this day has a US military base.

>>21796266
A. We need an enemy that we can reasonably invade, unless you are willing to make us powerful enough at the start to take out a real country.

>>21796266
A

>>21796328
this would probably allow the added islands/competition and serves both a and b

>>21796266
Voting C. There is already loads of smaller island south and petroleum deposit to the north
Ancient history - Majapahit Empire colonizing attempt result in skirmish with local tribes or something.

C

>>21796266
C. Stay, Indonesia gives us plenty of room to start expanding during and after the Cold War, no-one really cared about all those little islands until they had something other people wanted anyway.

>honour ftnere
yes, captcha, ftnere honour indeed.

>>21796315
Also we need a smaller barren island a hundred miles away or so.
We're a dictatorship, we need a nuclear testing site.

I forgot to write that in the first post.

>>21796382
We could just evict people from whatever place if we become a nuclear power

>>21796328
Is everyone alright if I make a map of this and we see how it feels?

Hey, sorry I missed the start, here once more.
Had to do a night run with some friends.

>>21796377
>something other people wanted anyway
Something like the Malaysian-Indonesian confrontation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia%E2%80%93Malaysia_confrontation
Went as far as deployment of Avro Vulcan strategic bombers.

File: 1354147859580.jpg-(340 KB, 1410x1062, mapcopy.jpg)

Also I'm going to go play some Wargames with East German gear. Anyone feel like watching? (Will periodically update thread simultaneously)

If new location is acceptable, then we will roll with it on into Colonial.

>>21796521
Do it do it do it.
Streaming, I'm presuming?
Unfortunately I'm not where I can play with you.

>>21796521
What is this Wargames and how would we watch?
Also okay with the location.

File: 1354148136488.jpg-(1.31 MB, 1920x1080, Wargameeuropeanescalation.jpg)

>>21796550
Wargames European Escalation.
This is just the American stuff.

>>21796549
Yeah streaming.

livestream.com/always_bet_on_duke

I barely read this thread but I have a suggestion before I catch up.

>WW2 fought
>Massive fortifications built by ____ on the island to prevent ____ from taking it
>Never saw action, but propaganda machine plays it up as untakeable national defense system

>>21796521
As long as we can invade people I'm good.

>>21796619
Props to this idea

>>21796582
>>21796589
Oh, cool. Like that game.

>>21795705
>Pre-Colonial
Oh boy. Chinese explorers got there a few centuries before Euros arrived. Brought gunpowder, which they traded for shit like obsidian.

Natives didn't really know what do with gunpowder, so they use it in ceremonial stuff, giant explosions/rockets and shit to invoke god of volcano/earth.

Euros get there, accident happens, entire cheiftain's gunpowder store goes up, kills all but a few members of first expedition.

Next 3 centuries spent with the major colonial powers of the day waging brutal warfare for control of the island and the rare breed of weapon they believe to be hidden there.

>>21796769
Oh my...I love this.

Who here agrees?

>>21796806
yea I was thinking this look interesting as well

>>21796769
Oh that's funny. I can get behind that.

doesn't conflict with what I was thinking

>>21796769
Do it, should let us play the victim card politically at least.

>>21796769
When's the next Bactria quest thread, by the way?

File: 1354149678194.jpg-(33 KB, 343x410, Pacific Ring of Fire.jpg)

>>21796619
>Never saw action
Being close to Japan its unlikely
>>21796521
Fine with it but really hope we don't get tsunamied.
>>21796769
Add petroleum deposit with burning Euro colonialist

Alright we're going with our new position.

Pre-colonial talk is now official. Prior colonial talk is taken into comment.

File: 1354149944726.gif-(31 KB, 747x520, Map_indonesia_volcanoes.gif)

>>21796966
On second thought,everyone in SEA is our tsunami shield but earthquake is gonna cost us

>>21796922
Well, hopefully it'll happen tomorrow evening, since this weekend I'm gonna be dead meat. I'm glad folks are looking forward to it~

Also if you motherfuckers even SAY the word "helmet" I'm going to make sure the main character is UNABLE to wear one.

>>21797076
Helmet.

Get over yourself, if you can't rein in arguing players by acting faster next time you're going to crash and burn when there's real division. And stop telling people how to troll you.

>>21797171
I was just being sarcastic, I know it's hard to tell over text.

>>21797016
Prior meaning in this thread?

>>21797227
Yes, in this thread.

I love the gunpoweder thing.

But we still need to figure out how Europe interacts with us from 16th.

>>21797227
It kills me that probably the stupidest part was the sheer amount of ignorance displayed by both sides in that argument. Some guy came in at the end and linked a page out of a historical text or some shit and everyone was immediately shown to be the moron.

Polite sage for off-topic.

>>21797249
>1500AD
>Europeans hold different coastal sectors of the island, influencing wide swathes of the countryside
>Think Sicily in ancient times, where Greeks, Carthaginians, and Romans all lived on the same island vying for control.
>Papal bull established to prevent Christian peoples from fighting there when the Kebabs show up.
>Sporadic fighting anyway because the Pope can't see shit on that side of the world

>>21797076
I don't even know who you are or what is going on, but I shall say helmet at you whenever we meet here from now on.

>>21797171
Indeed.

>>21797249
Well, where the fuck are we? Eventually there's the Russo-Japanese war, and the Dutch are obviously in need of colonial strongholds and possibly the best for stealing tech from.

Certainly the French had colonial holdings in Southeast Asia, and the English were here, but aside from that what've we got as choices? Turks are probably not that interesting, and Russia's kind of far though Catherine II or Peter the Great might have started something that reached us eventually. Alaska was colonized under Catherine.

>>21797325
There was a giant shitstorm in my quest thread because there was disagreement over what kind of helmet the MC would wear.

Thread derailed for an hour. Also >>21797227

>>21797339
Germany was rolling around the region colonizing little shitholes, so they might have tried their hand here too.

Russia is really close in comparison.

Sweden and Denmark and Courland tried to do colonialism but didn't really succeed, though they had some land in the Caribbean.

>>21797318
Why are you such a fucking papist? Orthodox/Protestant competition would be more interesting than the constant pope-skewing.

Also, the Nestorian church from India and the various forms of Chinese christianity might be amusing to find here. And those fucking Chinese jews.

>>21797249
A-Straight up invasion
B-Installation of "Unified Tribal King's ADVISOR". Emphasis on gunboat diplomacy.
C-European alliance with neighbouring Kingdom for invasion and installing exiled tribe leaders.Kinda like how Johor Sultanate and Dutch allied to whack Portugal.

>>21797380

>getting mad at history

I never said England and the Netherlands weren't rolling around there, I thought everyone knew they were the Protestant powers in the region historically.

And Orthodox nations historically (to my knowledge) didn't even try their hand in SEA.

would like to help with 16th century plus discussion but I dont really know much about that period (excluding modern/very recent history). Perhaps given our new location being closer to japan Russian/Chinese tensions of some kind?

>>21797380
>>21797370
>>21797339
>>21797318
>Colonial era
>Eventually reached by colonial powers, encounter groups of Swiss mercenaries, mercenaries' paymasters cannot maintain the needed supply line to pay them due to logistics, mercenaries settle
>Ejected Chinese Jews also settle
>Some stuck-up Englishman brings Freedom of Conscience to the island, wins over locals
>Stay neutral through a bunch of shit
>Become Swiss banking exclave/Cayman islands of the region

>>21797516
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Singapore fulfill that role a bit? I could be totally wrong, but if so, there could be economic competition between the two.

>>21797549
Said economic competition would only help us to eventually side with the Soviets when tensions arose from the mainlanders coming under western dominance and starting to side with the US. Plus, US trade with Japan,etc.

>>21797486
>>21797380
Russiafag here. The likelier occurrence would be a noble or sect of some means fleeing from Imperial Russian autocracy or abandoning a colonial endeavor in Alaska, especially given that plenty of them got sent to Siberia to try to 'develop' it in the centuries of the Russian Empire's existence or got abandoned when the Empire sold Alaska off to the Americans.

In fact, Catherine and others sent some of the best and brightest of her nation into the snow and ice in hopes of gaining benefits from the frozen tundra. And then the silly woman went and sold off the Yukon.

>>21797598
Or China since they would want to annoy the British Hong Kong and Soviet supported Vietnam.

>>21797516
>>21797549
>>21797598
>>21797643
>>21797667

Amending my proposal in >>21797516
>Colonial era
>Eventually reached by colonial powers, encounter groups of Swiss mercenaries, mercenaries' paymasters cannot maintain the needed supply line to pay them due to logistics, mercenaries settle
>Ejected Chinese Jews also settle
>Some stuck-up Englishman brings Freedom of Conscience to the island, wins over locals
>Get Russian orthodox influx from Imperial derping in Siberia and Alaska, mostly people smart enough or determined enough to get there and maybe some church folks
>Stay neutral through a bunch of shit
>Become Swiss banking exclave/Cayman islands of the region
>Have a local silk industry maybe, enough trade goods to matter for a while, but get locked in competition with European trade in Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, et cetera, slowly become alienated
>Get influx of well-off Chinese during the instability of the period, create competitive animosity towards the mainland that persists until the Long March
>Possibly same with late-era Imperial dissenters/failed Russian royalists, creating a love/hate relationship with the Soviets that allow us to step away more easily later

>>21797643
I like the idea of a rouge noble landing on our shores and trying to institute a monarchy under him by manipulating the nobles. His regime might be overthrown around 1970's ish and it could pave the way for the new dictator/government to emerge ala Batista and Castro

>>21797716
Jesus christ

What is the official language of the island?

>>21797724
Sadly, most of the rogue nobles just wanted revolutionary ideas like western freedom and starving less. We didn't get a crazy motherfucker like Baron von Ugenberg until the revolution.

>>21797643
Or they got lost and settled in Zaritonia. Tropical Czar ho! Forgot their potatoes so settled with banana alcohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_beer

>>21797740
Latin. Admit it, we could be the last Latin-speaking country in the world.

>>21797743
couldnt we invent a fictional crazy motherfucker or no?

>>21797740
Switzerland is split into four language zones and does just fine, though the sheer number of priests might make >>21797747 kind of amusing.

More serious answer would be a multilingual population with a broadly-spoken regional or asian dialect, whatever the Dutch were speaking, and Russian. Russian as an official language in the majority would certainly attract the Soviet Bear like a pot of honey.

>>21797754
Probably an inbred one. Besides, we don't want to end up like Iran.

>>21797786
an inbred noble probably would be the crazy fuck we are looking for.
Also I think the brits did alot of shit in SEA and we might have some kind of conflict with them? Like weather or not we want to let them moor ships on the island or something.

>>21797778
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Sprachen_CH_2000_EN.svg

I guess it would make being a banking empire easier if we spoke a slew of languages.

>>21797778
You mean Soviet buying land for airbase and flying Tu-95 close to Japan.Cuban missile crisis MK2.

>>21797827
An inbred noble from Russia would likely just be an idiot. And a dictatorship reaching into the seventies would be boring.

>>21797859
Sure, but it'd also bring down the cost of trying to create advanced production or maintenance facilities in the area if they didn't have to work quite as hard to teach the locals Russian. This was a major component to a lot of Soviet expansion efforts in Eastern Europe, and later when those nations broke away the cultures within them were kind of less robust because of the heavyhanded effort to turn the people into rank-and-file Soviets.

If they don't shedgehammer us quite so hard because we already speak their language and hate the capitalist pigdogs, we might come out of it better when it's time to secure independence.

>>21797867
So Russian nobles who welcome exiled nobles from Europe. Insert exiled British royals,French royals fleeing Napoleon etc

>>21797867
the revolution to overthrow it wouldnt be methinks. It could also provide a unifying point of the different ideologies a sort of "we united to overthrow that inbred bastard in the past we shouldnt fracture now" sort of deal.

>>21797911
Welcoming in foreigners this way would create both tensions with and connections to the First and Second world, giving us a shot at not languishing under Japanese and Chinese hegemony in the modern era.

Still here. Reading up. Getting my ass kicked in WEE.

>>21797937
It would also mean our banks could not become the lesser equivalent of Swiss banks because of shitty political tensions. We'd just become yet another dictator state in Southeast Asia instead of having to figure out a way to turn a south pacific banking haven into an expansionistic Soviet client-state without breaking connections with the West. Obviously the rise of China would help in this regard, but yeah.

File: 1354153487935.png-(20 KB, 300x748, 1351297995044.png)

>>21797964
Indeed you are.

>>21798002
ah don't be like that....he's committing to a glorious death struggle!

>>21797977
Yea revolutions do tend to scare away people. So were just filling in the 1600's period with European attempts to colonize then?

I think being in SEA the most likely powers to attempt colonization are brits or dutch

I am losted. Am into thread now, reading up.

I am loving you all.

Loving.

With my eyes.
[notaspoiler]And my dick.[/notaspoiler]

>>21798231
You forgot the Spanish and pre 1600s the Portugese

Dutch, then traded to Prussia prior to hostilities.

>>21798400
>>21798374
They will only add to our ability to leech European diplomatic interest in order to shield us from Sino-hegemoney and make us a lynchpin for some kind of weird Cold War spending struggle.

>>21798400
Dutch traded with everyone, even the people they were at war with...

>>21798374
The best candidates I think are brtis/dutch but they are not the only candidates for sure.

>>21798453
What year are you starting in? Things change you know.

>>21798468
well I was thinking 1600 to 1800 was what we were working on now

>>21798513
I think it would be interesting to just try and westernisze the place, like have that be the main story line for the first 100 years. Like have a moment where euros come and fuck you up, people say we can't let that happen again, we need guns, and clocks, and ships and everything they have...

Then by 1700s you can have a powerful western state flexing its muscles in pacific, fighting global wars, economic and intellectually maturing.
I could go on if this is useful.

>>21797716
Going for a revision of this and bearing all above posts in mind.

>Colonial era
>Ejected Chinese Jews settle on the island
>Eventually reached by colonial powers, encounter groups of Swiss mercenaries, mercenaries' paymasters cannot maintain the needed supply line to pay them due to logistics, mercenaries settle
>Settled swiss mercs pass on tradition of swiss (pike?) fightan tactics to locals, create a strong deterrent to invasion, perhaps inspire a system like switzerland's where the locals hire out as mercs for a while to earn money and gain experience of the world sort of like later British Empire Ghurkas but different
>Some stuck-up Englishman brings Freedom of Conscience to the island, wins over locals
>Englishman brings a group of british gunsmiths fleeing from early-era mercantilists seeking to nationalize them, this forms core of troops that allow pike-and-shot tactics for defense from European colonialism
>Get Russian orthodox influx from Imperial derping in Siberia and Alaska, mostly people smart enough or determined enough to get there and maybe some church folks
>Stay neutral through a bunch of shit
>Also stay independent

Continued.

>>21798802
Continues.

>Become Swiss banking exclave/Cayman islands of the region
>Sell gunpowder
>Have a local silk industry maybe, enough trade goods to matter for a while, but get locked in competition with European trade in Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, et cetera, slowly become alienated
>Get influx of well-off Chinese during the instability of the period, create competitive animosity towards the mainland that persists until the Long March
>Possibly same with late-era Imperial dissenters/failed Russian royalists, creating a love/hate relationship with the Soviets that allow us to step away more easily later
>Never actually get taken over by soviets, but do get military emplacements and helicopters and shit while they try to turn us into a fuel depot and maintenance base

Thoughts?

>>21798802
>>21798811
I actually like it. Have we found our colonial history?
Also is OP still here?

>>21798671
Not powerful so much as defensible, not worth taking, and beneficial if independent.

Hence my flagrant theft of extremely effective infantry tactics hat with making pike and shot possible in >>21798802 and >>21798811

Plus Dutch, Spanish, or Portugese contacts might end up getting us a harbor in the area, one way or another. This is our western ante that the Soviets eventually see with their contributions. Needs some historical fact-checking, though.

>>21798802
>>21798811
Change the swiss to germans or something. That's already been decided

>>21798811
>>21798802

Frustrating lack of dates, Swiss are landlocked not sure how they would get to SE asia in 1600s, what would really happen is a bunch of Spanish or Portuguese would have came and converted everyone to Christianity/killed everyone for their riches. The europeans didnot play nice with people...

>>21798865
Eh, we can have the Swiss be accompanied by German Landshneckts, but they're far more interesting for their eventual economic input than for military shit.

>>21798928
They were widely used as mercenaries and would be the sort of group that would be left behind whereas French or German mercs would likely be retrieved by their countrymen on a passing ship or have an easier time arranging retrieval.

Only a group like the Swiss would be as predisposed to settle.

>>21798844
I am. Just finished reading it all. Making post

>>21798928
See
>>21796769

>>21798983
I added you on steam.
>>21798966
Hessian mercenaries were somewhat pre-disposed to settling, aswell.

>>21798865
I think Germany was the HRE untill 1700's right? The HRE wasn't really going to colonize anything.
>>21798928
>Swiss are landlocked not sure how they would get to SE asia in 1600s
He said swiss mercenaries. So not the actual swiss themselves, makes alot of sense if they are brought by another colonial player like the brits or something.

>>21798966
The Swiss traveled around Europe but never beyond it, in fact no large amounts of troops left europe until the mid to late 18th century. Cramming hundreds of men on these ships for months before networks of bases had been established was asking for trouble.

>>21798671
I do like this. Gives us the opportunity to write some crushing history about European colonialism. But if we do this I can't see us being on friendly terms with them in modern times.

UNLESS said initial European power was replaced by another friendlier one (the kind that didn't hunt natives for fun at least). People are in favour of the Dutch or Germans being the guys we are on friendly terms with, could they have replaced the Swiss here? >>21798966

>>21798998
Mix of Swiss and Hessians, then?

>>21799025
A single group of a hundred making it out here would be enough.

Hell, it's better if they don't all make it and only a core of officers do, then train the locals to replace the dead and fill gaps in their rank and file.

>>21798928
Depends on how you diplomacy. In 1641 the Johor Sultanate allied with Dutch to kick out Portugal since they are Catholic and massacred Malacca muslims. Spaniards are busy island hopping and latin Americas. Thailand remain influenced but not invaded while the sultanate in Malaysia and Borneo took in British advisors.

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>>21799045
Replaced or accompanied. The Swiss were dicks to the locals, Maybe. The Germans and dutch were not? Plus, Guys like me get to be your friends.
>Pretty sure I know the guy on the second to right..

>>21799045
See above posts referencing love/hate relationship with the first and second world allowing us to maintain independence while still using their white guilt and economic connections to our banking crap to shield us from chinese hegemony.

>>21799045
Surviving the initial thrust of colonization would not effect relation that much. America, and many other colonies threw off political control from Europe but remained connected, the whole racism thing would be difficult to overcome, but if the country westernized quickly Europeans would have been more able to deal with them equally.

On your second point all europeans were racists, imperialist punks, only if you meet strength with strength would you survive.

>>21799099
Seeing as the Dutch and Germans were culturally predisposed to colonialism, imperialism, and domination if indigenous tribes (for the Dutch and for Hessians that ever went to the new world) and pagans, the Swiss might be less inclined to abuse the locals.

How about relations were mixed until the nation became westernized and liberalized enough to abolish the landowning classes that made up the aristocracy in a velvet revolution of socialism and wealth redistribution that the rich capituated to because it was that or get killed in their sleep? Would keep the banks intact, but make the soviets think we sucked marxist cock as much as they did.

>>21799094
Yes this is the kind of stuff I like to see, if you can play europeans off eachother it would work out nicely.

>>21799165
holy shit you may be a genius-level smar/tg/uy and that may be a winner

the capitalists would be taken aback and the west would be weary of OUR influence, and the soviets might double down on us because of how much of a strange breed of commies we appeared to be initially and then get cold feet because of distance, capitalist pig financier leanings, and a lack of easy subversion towards authoritarianism

>>21799099
I haven't read this thread at all but you mention the Swiss in context to what I hope is the war in Afghanistan. I had a brother-in-law who just got back server a tour there after being stationed in a base that used to belong the Swiss. The locals hated the Swiss they really didn't do any outreach or patrols and many local villages were red. After his unit arrived they started working on the base to make it larger and more secure doing more patrols making villages friendly. Swiss didn't do shit.

>>21798802

Proposing this.

Colonia Era
14th onwards - Mixed tribes are no longer unified during this period, though general knowledge.

15th - Chinese begin to settle in the area on the west coast islands/shores.

16th - Region's swamps and jungles, without an established "urban" area already, makes colonial attempts hard enough for Hong Kong to be of better interest.

17th - English win over locals in the south west in 17th century, first colonial efforts begin in earnest.

18th - Imperial Russia takes interest for a force projection against Japan in the area. Tries to settle the North of the Island. Bringing Russian influence and also conflict with Japan.


---

Took consideration of everyone's thoughts. This was a simplified timeline of what I think should happen - and inspired by from some of the posts.

>>21799231
When was that base established? Last fifty years?

>>21799109
You're saying that we maintained our independence throughout the entirety of the Colonial period? That's a bit...unrealistic. And it begs the question of how we became a dictatorship rather than the pre-colonial matriarchal council thing we had before.

>>21799146
It depends. Nations that had truly horrifying colonial masters often had less than stellar relations afterwards. If we were buddy-buddy with East Germany, our closer than usual relations could be explained by them being better than the Swiss/whatever. Also gives us a reason for siding with the East, as the the West are on the same side as the guys we most certainly don't like.

I do think it makes sense for some of the early German colonial attempts to be focused on our island. It works both with our later alliance and the fact that they would likely look towards an independent island as an opportunity.

>>21799231
The swiss never do anything. Unless it's sit on their asses and make money. And make good chocolate.. Mmhhh, Toblerone

>>21799253
Why should we become a dictatorship at all? If it was 'decided by a majority earlier,' I don't see them present in numbers here. If it's just because OP's used to creating dictatorships due to their behavior etc, a small ruling elite at the head of a banking empire would be just as decisive and capable of brutal military expansion under mercantilist policy.

>>21796521

This sidelines our fictional nation from all the possible glorious stuff that can happen near the archipelago.

>>21799247
It'd be much more interesting to be a cultural mishmash than a product of foreign intervention from mostly the Russians.

Also, Imperial Russian influence this early will create significant difficulty in getting the Soviets to double down on it and put military assets in the region after WWII.

>>21799264
Except make money hand over fist.

>>21799296
Because it sounds like something out of the Mary Sue guideline. We have to be a bit more realistic here, there's no way we didn't get our asses handed to us during the Colonial period.

>>21799247
looks good I think.
Also what kind of dictatorship are we running? Iike communist/socialist or more facsits?

>>21799358
Haven't gotten there yet.

>>21799327
Minor Russian influence to get the language there. Not a major control or anything. Just a port to use.

>>21799340
It doesn't, really, it just sounds like a competently run pirate utopia. But sure is a lot of Cold War dictator boners in here.

>>21799247
China/Japan makes for a good jerkass first colonial power.

My only worry is, given our size and location, we would have been dead to rights in Japan's expansion during WWII. And then we'd have to explain why we like the Soviets more than the Allies who would have helped us.

>>21799388
Are we running another dictatorship, or do we have other options? Because I wasn't terribly interested in a dictatorship myself unless it is a requirement.

>>21799392
>competently run pirate utopia
>not mary sue

Yeah, I don't see where you're going with this.

Don't forget, during the early colonization by China, our island should become a nice source for gunpowder. It has everything you need for early boom making.

File: 1354158095767.jpg-(233 KB, 1280x837, BundeswehrKSK2.jpg)

>>21799426
Are you one of those people who would call special forces mary sue because they kick too much ass?

>>21799434
So are we going with the Chinese as the first colonizers, the ones we don't like?

And who do we have replacing them?
-Imperialist, later Soviet, Russia
-Dutch
-German
-English
-French (Vietnam being nice and close will make that interesting)
-Other?

>>21799426
>competently run dictatorship
>also not mary sue

You're totally right. I concede my point completely.

>>21799396
We'll handle WW2 seperately. I have plans for it.

>>21799414
We can do non-dictatorships if majority wants it. We will have 3 political parties at minimum too.

>>Everyone wondering why I chose what I chose
We don't want to impact the region so hard that history is re-written. Trying to keep a light footprint until WW2. With only some minor influences like language or culture.

>>21799529
well not "chose" but suggested

>>21799466
Seeing as special forces exist in the real world, and functioning pirate utopias don't, not really.

>>21799388
Looks good but I fear the horrible education nightmare that will result.
>China brings their education system
>English and their schools
>Russian also brings their own
Malaysia kept our ethnic schooling and we suffered some sectarian violence.
>My British educated son is the best man to head this post office.No my Russian educated is best.Nope, my China monk is best postman.

>>21799466
>>21799426
I think hes bringing up the fact that competently run pirate utopia is pretty much impossible. There would be major conflicts among the pirates themselves especially considering the tribal history our island had. Also being a "pirate utopia" would probably invite western navies and if we want to be an independent trade power thats really no good for us
I think sticking to the dictatorship idea is pretty good especially if we dont really start as a dictatorship. I like the 3 parties idea posted in the earlier thread and have the initial part of the game involve the parties competing to create their own dictatorship. It is OP's thread however so im down for whatever he thinks is good.

>>21799544
>posting in a political fantasy thread
>demands everything uphold real-world trends

I think you might've missed something.

>>21799562
Cultural syncretism is possible. We can unify the schools Frederick the Great style.

>>21799519
A dictatorship can be well extremely well. Some might argue better so than a lot of democracies. You can cast your vote to make this Somalia Pirates Are Cool The Quest, but I don't think I'll be getting behind it with too much gusto.

>>21799529
>don't rewrite history
This is my only worry. If we managed to maintain our independence from European nations all throughout the Colonial Period, that's going to result in a huge historical impact on the region unless we are ultra-isolationists.

>>21799529
Voting for mercantilist banking empire with expansionist ambitions. Like singapore.

>>21799251
No more than three years old. It was a small combat base before his unit arrived but they built it up into a Forward operating base.

>>21799598
Independence might be a strong word, implying military superiority. More like 'nobody thought it was worth it.'

We get colonized, but don't care, and go about our business like it doesn't matter, because, hey, it doesn't. Keep whatever parts of the colonizing culture we like and abandon the rest as soon as they leave. That's the way dad did it, that's the way 'Murrica does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far...

>>21799598
>A dictatorship
>can be run well
>can be

That's the key phrase. Sadly, they rarely if ever are because kleptocracy is easy.

>>21799598

I would say we got colonies but they didn't take root very well. Isolationist + reunifying tribes set us back. WW2 Japan occupation brings in China/Soviet influence before they began hate-gasming each other. Which brought us up to "modern" levels by the 70s.

Thats how I'm seeing it.

>>21799569
Ever heard of suspension of disbelief?
I can't see us doing anything major before the current date (when the quest actually starts) without us re-writing history. That and the fact that we somehow managed to fight off the European powers because we're 'special' leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even the Maori's only managed a couple of concessions after kicking European arse.

>>21799598
Hooray for my sentence and words thing.

>>21799660
But pirate utopias on the other hand...?

>>21799688
I'm not saying we did because we're special. I'm saying the land is so shitty they needed modern technology to easily get it. Those that did stay didn't make a huge influence on us.

>>21799614
>expansionist
>Singapore

come again?

>>21799685
I like it. So who colonized us? The concensus did appear to be Germany, but now we've got a couple of Swiss votes and talk of Russians.

>>21799726
Just ignore him. He's one of those people who thinks the ground is slower than he is.

>>21799688
>'special'
>thinks a home-grown European-style pike and shot regiment lead and trained by Europeans is 'special'
>thinks Europeans are incapable of wanting to be freed from a crappy mercantilist system without some sort of bizzare circumstance necessitating Mary Sue shit

Tell me more.

>>21799741

Not really sure how Germany got all the way there.

Really if we're trying not to disrupt history too much, then it'll have to be either the British or the Dutch, possibly changing hands, like Malacca and Port Moresby.

>>21799752
What? I'm talking about the idea that a pirate utopia (already a contradiction) managed to take on major European powers. I'm honestly confused now.

>>21799722
I doubt having a bank or friendly port in the area would much affect colonialism. The entire point of the written history was to minimize involvement or strategic meaning to surrounding powers.

>>21799741

Germany did colonize the area.
German New Guinea (Deutsch-Neuguinea) (1884–1914)

So we could say we got under that influence during that period.

>>21799819
>take on
>not stay out of the hands of
Your lack of reading comprehension is showing.

>>21799819
I think your problem is that you fundamentally misunderstand the historical role of pirates. Pirate utopias in the Carribean failed because they were founded too late and never became anything else.

Consider it sociologically. The control over commerce, goods, and pricing that allowed the colonial era to exist meant that not everyone was able to get, or afford, what they wanted (or needed). Simultaneously, the state itself had to compete against other states for markets and materials. This necessitated an underground economy and related class; a class so necessary to and intertwined with these untenable economic policies that they are celebrated even today: pirates. They were the logical and inevitable extension of controlled commerce; were extremely skilled, and often navigated the shipping lanes with more knowledge and flexibility than even the military. They worked for themselves, or they worked for the state, as the situation arose.

Is the only thing that needs ironing out the "who colonized us" question?

>>21799900
so...you're proposing a freeport that would work for the highest bidder but stay out of politics because it would otherwise compromise its future and safety?

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>>21799870
Even an island like that just managing to prevent the Europeans absolutely crushing them the moment they threatened their trade routes is a ridiculous notion. Do you even into British Navy?

>>21799946
That's what makes it viable as an island that doesn't have much of a historical impact.

All they can manage is to keep foreign domination at bay, but that's it.

As popular a trope as it might be, the natives won't be able to stand up to European power. No amount of goodness and right would make it happen.

>>21799932
That and whether or not we pirated the fuck up everything. Though I have no idea how we went from native canoes and the like to a navy of any sort.

>>21799973

Historically it would arise from the pirate sea kings who eventually wanted more than just riches. One subjugated island and you have its navy.

Listen, how about we were colonized by the French but like so many other colonies of this era they left us well enough alone as long as our farms produced goods and we payed our taxes?

>>21799865
Revised History to avoid "Why didn't europe steam roll us!" and "Why german influence?"
Colonia Era

15th - Chinese begin to settle in the area on the west coast islands/shores.

16th-18th - Major disease hits island. Original 'nation' falls to its tribal basis with those that survive. The plague is still on the island periodically. This added with the swamps prevent colonization.

19th - The island is finally colonized by the Germans along with New Guinea.

World War 1: New Guinea taken by Australia but Zari is not. Zari remains a German Territory until the Treaty of Versailles is signed. Zari, gaining new found freedom, maintains ties with Germany, having not suffered ill with them.

>>21799969
Even managing to do that is unprecedented. It sounds cool, but it's also impossible when you realise the nature of the forces arrayed against you.

>>21799946
actually for the longest time, it would be the Spanish and French navies we would have to fear, maybe even the Dutch India Company, if we wanted to go pirate. British navy concerns were mainly in the Atlantic.

>>21800020
+1
Sounds good

File: 1354159800573.jpg-(1004 KB, 2880x1440, Polandballworldimproved.jpg)

Someone make a flag for us, And then make a polandball of us.

>>21800000
>>21800000
>>21800000
>>21800000


Shiit.

>>21800026

Aye. Considering the natives would have been up against troops battle hardened from India.

>>21800062
On it. Looking into old tribal symbols from that region and examples of other flags as we speak.

>>21800020
I like it. Can we have it including a British outpost? It would make more sense than just suddenly receiving independence, and gives a great justification for any involvement during WWII.
We don't have to really like the British either, especially if they are less friendly than the Germans were.

File: 1354159989901.jpg-(215 KB, 600x600, 1336882936697.jpg)

>>21800020
>>21800020
>>21800020
>>21800020
>>21800020

I ams in sleep now. I have had a very long day and I have long one tomorrow.

Feel free to discuss this. It is archived so I can read back. I will start a new topic tomorrow by 12:00 US Central or so, if this auto-sages or is lost to the 404.


As for "WW2" (which is the new topic, if 15th to WW1 is okay with you guys), I suggest this: Japan occupies the fuck out of China. Germany uses us (being friendly to Germany) as a presence in Pacific WW2. A very minor presence (eg: a few extra u-boats and an airfield.)

This leads, somehow, to us becoming friends with East Germany and following them into the Warsaw Pact.

Generalized and theorized.

As for how do we get all our soviet gear: Unified German did give away a lot of its soviet equipment to nations in need, I -think-, or so I read. I'm not sure...but its plausible enough to explain how we got more than "a few items." Perhaps...

>>21800026
Claiming that it is unprecedented suggests that the British Navy would give enough fucks to field a large force. Go and confirm that they would've committed to such power concentrations given the conflicts in europe and their needs elsewhere yourself.

You're selectively asspulling the geopolitics to benefit your own argument in service to conservatism, so you can leave that shit out of it.

>>21800020
Boring with a side of boring.

>>21800117
Yeah that works well too, but that also forces us to be NATO friendly...imho... which wouldn't be bad. We just become Taiwan 2.0 though. (Though we would get 2nd hand Hue-hue-hueys.)

>>21800000
Niceeeeeee

>>21800026
>Fighting at all
Thailand and Malay+Borneo sultanate did not fought at all.The British made some port and settled there,introduced elite schools for the Sultans and put an advisor and later governor but no open war occured.

>>21800139
Pretty sure we didn't translate the instruments before giving them out. Hope Zaritonians speak deutsch!
>>21800062
..I've never even noticed the Ich <3 Nena pin before..

>>21800020

Mmm...

The treaty of versailles stripped Germany of its colonies and into the hands of the allies.

Most likely, our country would have fallen into the hands of Japan...

This makes things VERY interesting as it means our nation would not have suffered as much during WW2 due to it already being a colony. We would see it being heavily militarised as a stepping board for the Japanese expansion into the region.

>>21800186
Trial and error?

+ The colonization in 19th/20th...

>>21800165
Not necessarily, we could be angry at the Allies for doing absolutely nothing when Japan buggers us over.
It will mean we will have a serious dislike for Japan like many other Asian nations.

>>21800139
Night man, super excited for this.

>>21800194
Very true - and by WW2 we would regain our german ties long enough to fall to GDR favor?

THIS IS WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION! Great ideas!

I am sleep now.

>>21800194

This also means we won't have as much native Japan hate... meaning closer ties and better trade relations, allowing us to springboard using their rapid industralisation to advance our country ahead of our SEA neighbours.

>>21800152
Like >>21800029 said it's not just the British navies you'd have to watch out for. All of these navies are vastly superior to anything we would have come up with and you're saying we've held them off for 2-3 centuries?
Doesn't seem like its me who's doing the asspulling here, mate.

>>21800088
Nice it would be cool to incorporate our past tribal symbols into a modern flag.

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>>21800287
>Mate
>Mate
>Mate
This is the first thing that popped to mind.
>>21800247
What's wrong with japan hate?

>>21800247
I like this. If we want to be a newsworthy/influential nation at some point in the modern game we will need to be a whole lot more than a tribal shithole US fruit companies use to get bananas.

>>21800287
You're doing plenty of asspulling. Why would any of those nations want a swamp-ridden hellhole that happens to have a couple of trading posts? Why would they aggress against it if it held their wealth in trust, necessitating stability if they wanted the banks there to remain functional?

Colonial adventurism isn't moronic. Colony acquisition are done for a reason, not just 'hey, it'ssome land, let's take it.' That reason is profit in the form of goods created cheaply for the homeland, which is the entire reason the Boston Tea Party mattered. A swampy hole with a somewhat convienent bank on it and strong land troops is in no way desirable as a target of invasion.

>>21800315

That it can cloud and influence relationships and trade between nations. Japan hate was very much prevalent post ww2 in SEA.

Still see it today, very irritating.

>>21800315
Yeah, ausfag here. Hopefully this won't turn out like East Timor all over again.

I think he was suggesting that, given we were German friendly and don't particularly like the new English overlords, the Japanese takeover could have been relatively peaceful and bloodless (for us) compared to other areas.

I also forgot to add one thing.

Zanzia is "in world" with us. Just fyi. Though in the last iteration (a split UN controlled african hell hole.)

I should sleep I know. I just forgot to add that.

(Also, Liking the German colonization->Japan->Free but german-japan friendly. Gives us an interesting position where we don't HAVE to be a soviet-allied country...)

>>21800287
read >>21800180
your grasp of military history seems to outreach your knowledge of the motivations of colonial powers and the various behavioral and economic pressures that decided their actions

>>21800364
>Pirate king attacking trade routes
>Extremely powerful navies not taking a month or two out of their schedule to deal with the problem
>Extremely powerful navy not crushing pathetic pirate navy
>Extremely powerful navy not bombarding pirate island from the sea until nothing habitable appears to be left

Please, it's like you think they didn't do this ALL THE TIME.

>>21800424
everything looks good. Cant wait to get started the political intrigue between the three parties (if we end up sticking with that idea) could be really fun to play out.

>>21800445
>Pirate king attacks trade routes

This is where your lack of reading comprehension is showing.

File: 1354161068892.jpg-(128 KB, 1156x647, Colonytraderoutes.jpg)

This nation is off the major trade routes, not even the Japan-Hong Kong one.

...Did some idiot colonise this island for shit and giggles for glorious Germanic Masterrace?

>>21800434
I can imagine them largely leaving us alone if we didn't start bloody attacking their merchants. Even so, our island would have to be particularly useless not to attract any colonial power at all.

>>21800445
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Algiers_(1816)
Just one example.

>>21800380
>Bloodless
>Chinese settlers
Not gonna happen

>>21800465
So what do pirates do then?

>>21800497
According to Grand Leader's suggestion, the Chinese were mostly wiped by a plauge.

>>21800445
What trade routes? We're not near any trade routes.

>>21800497
Chinese expats and outcasts, more like. And plenty of them died.

>>21800531
Then whose idea was the whole pirates thing in the first place?

>>21800505
The smart ones that manage to gain any real power would probably become privateers.

I mean, Blackbeard himself named his flagship Queen Anne's Revenge. The man was quite obviously not ignorant of politics.

>>21800553
Yours, apparently. The idea was that they'd have competent land forces and be an interesting harbor. Someone mentioned pirate utopias as an example of a form of government that attempted to maintain independence from larger states to say that it was precedented in at least one form, but that was largely it.

>>21800560
This is assuming we even have boats that other privateers wouldn't scoff at.

>>21800596
If you've been doing this on purpose you have my admiration. I shall now wash my hands of pirates.

>>21800656
I've been playing devil's advocate to some extent, but the only thing I've been doing on purpose was exploring other avenues for the colonial development because frankly, another dictatorship arising from some colonially-dominated corner of the Pacific is far less interesting to me than a bunch of bizzare freeholders and refugees building something greater that only manages to snowball into a player on the world stage in the late modern era.

It strikes me that whoever mentioned the sultanate that got colonialist assistance gives us a pathway forward that manages to avoid colonial dominance. I'm still fond of the idea of a swiss mercenary captain and a few of his sergeants, the surviving officer core of a hundred-man regiment, bringing some western values to the island after being forced to settle there.

>>21800815
The problem is. China in the 70s or so would slap our shit down. We need colonies.

Also we dont HAVE to be a "dictator" in the bad sense.

>>21801031
The history of being a dictator state is never handled well because of the nature of human behavior. As for China in the 70s, the proposal was maintaining ties with the Soviets or the west that would make China far less than willing to slap our shit, or otherwise being their version of Switzerland or the Caymans.

The Chinese government maintained a whole server full of kiddie porn for the consumption of their leadership, and the Chinese army owns so much shit it is impossible for them not to have use for an offshore banking system.

>>21801031
Man, the Chinese were a political joke in the 70s. Couldn't even take back Taiwan.

File: 1354163496368.png-(96 KB, 1000x600, Flag 1.png)

First draft of a flag. Tell me what needs to be changed/if it's good enough. Not terribly happy with how the symbol turned out, and it needs some cleaning up. Also, the colors seem a bit off to me but hey, it's a first draft.

>>21801232
The logo could use some work and the yellow's... odd..
.

>>21801180
You mean busy with sino soviet split right?
Clash with Soviet in North,war with Vietnam to south,Vietnam steamrolling their Pol pot in Laos

>>21801365
They were the closest thing to a superpower at the time, right? If they were a grasping giant, they could be seen as kind of a joke. Anyway the split should protect us.

>>21801414
To a third superpower. I can't fucking think straight anymore, it's way too late here. Fucking Hawaii.

>>21801414
I would say the split will protect us since there was only a short war but China clased with Vietnam until 1990. The Soviet will be looking for naval/air bases from which to watch China and supply Vietnam and the Vietnam army including veterans of Vietnam war was no joke especially against the untested PLA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

>>21801232
The logo is too busy. It'd look better if you simplified it to just the black and blue parts.

>>21801544
Are you interested in the stuff mentioned in >>21800815 when you say that? The line of discussion about the split protecting us etc was begun in order to explore an alternate means of handling the colonial era.

>>21801599
I am a Malaysian so I believe I am quite knowledgeable in SEA colonial history hammered in our textbook after 11 years of school. Hell,even my old high school was a former British boarding school to raise local govt workers/Sultan heirs/regional leaders. The state Sultan went British protectorate to avoid steamrolled by the Siamese Empire but in the end Thailand annexed our north region where separatist movement is occurring in Thai right now. I can explain a bit on how Thai managed to avoid steamrolled by Europe though.

>>21801805
You can do that if you want, though if you were trying to answer the question in >>21801599 you've failed to make your position clear.

>>21800020
>>21800020
The Treaty of Versailles, rather than awarding a colony new freedom, was designed to distribute the colony to new owners. To the victors go the spoils, and likewise Zaritonia.

It's unlikely that Zaritonia would have been made independent at this point. It would almost certainly been controlled by the British Empire via New Zealand. Of course, it would have been abandoned a la the Phillipines leading up to WWII. The Japanese and Germans would have walked right in without resistance.

Hell, it would be a perfect final resting place for Yamashita's gold.

>>21804557
You are correct. We will re-work that to bring it in line with history.

>>21799296
>If it was 'decided by a majority earlier,' I don't see them present in numbers here
>>21799392
>But sure is a lot of Cold War dictator boners in here.

Make your bloody mind up.