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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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So, I just finished reading Swords in the Mist, the third Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser book, a few days ago and it made me wonder about a few things.

1) Why such a great fantasy pulp series isn't more well known.

2) How could you make this pair fit into another setting?

If you recall, the books are collections of stories that feature the above characters in the world of Nehwon, except for the story Adept's Gambit, which takes place in roughly medieval Earth. In the story before (which iirc, was written to explain why they were on Earth, since the story was written before Lieber created Nehwon for Faf and Mouser to bum around in) has Fafhrd and Mouser getting lost in one of Ningauble's caves which connect to many worlds and the two Arrive on Earth. Subsequently, their origins and memories change to match it. Fafhrd is now Scandinavian and Mouser is from Tyr (Modern day lebanon).

That got me to thinking, what if Ningauble's cave led to other settings. Like Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser in Westeros. Faf would probably be from one of those Tribes in the North that aren't quite proper houses, but are treated as such (Or a Wilding, or an Iron man) and Mouser would probably be from Lys or Braavos.

Or how about Fafhrd and Mouser in Warhammer/40K? Ebberon? Any of the other DnD settings? (Not too much of a stretch since they were stated in 1e, I believe.)

So, is this a worthwhile idea to discuss, or is it not all that interesting to imagine different worlds with Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser?
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Know it's not what the thread is for, but I photoshopped up your image a little bit because I wanted to add it to my character portraits folder, and figured you might want a cleaner version.
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Thank you? It looks like you just upped the contrast a bit though.
1. No film adaptation. Obscurity is a small price to pay for evading such a terrible fate.
2. It would be better to ask, how would another setting survive!

Both got write-ups for 1e and 2e, and there was even a Lankhmar setting under the TSR imprint.

The ultimate fantasy mash-up would be putting the Twain on Barsoom...
And color-corrected a lot of the image to remove that tan-green fog. Not like I was re-drawing the thing or anything that drastic.

And, y'know, wanted to bump the thread.
This isn't really contributing to the discussion I think you want to have, but

>1) Why such a great fantasy pulp series isn't more well known.

Is it not well-known? Fritz Leiber's work is lauded among both fans of fantasy rpgs, and in the greater community of fans of fantasy literature. That's still a bit of a niche, but still, I figured it's as popular as you can reasonably expect it to be. I figured it had about the same cultural penetration as say...Neuromancer does among sci-fi fans. Required reading if you're a fan of the genre, even if it is meaningless to the man on the street.

Granted, when I made Cat's Claw, Scalpel, and Greywand artifacts in a campaign I ran, my player's didn't get the reference and I died a little inside...but my players are functional illiterates. Are most gamers like them? Is it a generation thing?

1) No idea. It's pretty crazy that Conan is so well-known and Fafhrd and Mouser aren't. I'd say they need a blockbuster movie... but I am afraid of it happening.

2) Well, the adaptation effect makes it fairly straightforward - I suppose the hard part is extrapolating how they wench, fight and rob their way across whatever setting they stumble into.

I suppose a few settings would have really strange effects. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser in Eclipse Phase anyone? Or Gensokyo?

They'd suit Shadowrun well - hell, Mouser could finally get to be more than a failed magician's apprentice, and be a burnt-out cybermage or adept. Fafhrd could be a NAN street samurai.

My gaming group are essentially illiterate when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi - as well as pre-2000 culture, myth and legend, modern-day military/police procedure and common sense.

They're all physics students - but so am I, so they have no excuse.
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Alright, took a second wack at it with what you said about contrast in mind.

You're right, I think, this looks much truer to the art of the era.
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That looks much better I think!

Also, OP here, I'm going to help things along with more art.

I also wanted to put in my initial post that, despite having analogues (who really only show up that one time in the beginning of the first book), I'd love to see how Faf and Mouser handle the way things are in Discworld.
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I just pulled a bunch of images off Google image search for this.
Most gamers have no idea about Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. Generation gap is definitely to blame. Consider: we've noted that there are 1e/2e stats, but nobody is popping up with suggestions for stats in 3.x/pf or 4e.

I thought Cat's Claw, Scalpel, and Greywand were just the names the Twain used for whatever blades they put their hands on? It was a bit of a jibe at the very idea of legendary named swords, as I recall.
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Oh boy! Fritz Leiber on /tg/!

Anyone else happen to play the old Lankhmar setting back in the day?
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I've never played 1e/2e. I actually found out about the series through Hellboy, now that I think about it. Mike Mignola did the art for a miniseries that adapted some Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser tales that Howard Chaykin Wrote.

Also, yeah, those were just what they called any swords they got their hands on and lost their weapons quite often, but if you don't pay close enough attention you can easily miss that fact.

I think it'd be funnier if you just kept having your party run into weapons with these names.
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That's from Mike Mignola's comic adaptation of Fafhrd & Grey Mouser. It was published by Dark Horse years ago. I still have my copy, and if my copier worked I'd post the pages.
As for 1, it's because most people don't like pulp, and right now the trend is for edgy grimdarkness with a lot of meta (so if an author frequents tvtropes, expect them to be a best seller).
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I have the trade. I got it like... I want to say 4 years ago? It was after I got into Hellboy and wanted to read more things with Mignola's art. I hate to admit it, but the Elric mini that he did just failed to interest me at all, while Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser stole my heart.
A friend of mine had the books and tried running us through one of the modules. We went off the tracks almost immediately and he didn't know what to make of it.

We were about 13 at the time, so I don't blame him. To our credit, nobody flipped their wig over the spellcasting changes.

Well, I wouldn't stat them in 3.5 or 4e - just because it would be an insult to them.

If we were using the Tome rules, then I'd put them both as level 6, mixing Fighter and Swashbuckler (possibly with a level of Rogue - but not essential as they can take the skills just fine).



That's hilarious.
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Also, would a movie adaptation be all that bad, especially now? There are are a lot of filmmakers that go to great lengths to make sure to capture the feel of the source material and make it good. Then again, there a lot of Studios who wouldn't give a shit and just push out a shitty film, like that new Parker adaptation.

What about an HBO TV Series?

Yeah - but I'd say that pulp did grimdark pretty damned well, they just didn't jerk off to it.

Yeah, I know the Twain's weapons weren't special. I used the names as an homage to the series, not the weapons themselves. And also because I think Greywand is the just the most badass name for a sword, for reasons I can't really define

HBO could do it - but they better get an actual fight coordinator, unlike the hack who did GoT.

Lots of their fights were quick and brutal, so there's no place for slapfests.
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"Before you go brave adventurers, before you go to fight the terrible Lich, I will impart you with some magical weapons, wielded by mighty heroes of Ages past..."
"Oh awesome, what kind of--"
"These are Scapel and Cat's Claw, swift weapons for a swift swordsman and--"
"And this is the mighty Gray Wand, it--"
"I literally have twelve of those and they're all different."
"Hold on, let him give them to us. I lost my cats claw and want another one."

Oh damn you for your funny words.

Now I have to do that to my illiterate players.
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"The Lich, thanks to your efforts, is no more! His long reign of terror is now--"
"Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's loot this sucker."
"*Sigh* Alright. You open the Lich's treasure room. His vast hoard lies before you, gold, gems, and two swords are held chief among his collection..."
"Oh sweet, I run up to grab them!"
"Hey! You don't need TWO swords!"
"You can have the lamer one. Okay, what kind of swords am I looking at?"
"Well, one is a large Great sword, with tattered leather on it's handle made of Wolf's bone. The other is a slender Rapier, it's handle is missing a guard, but it is somewhat ornate. You see a placard above them, naming these swords..."
"Wait, this sounds familiar."
"One is named Graywand..."
"Goddman it."
"The other is Scalpel."
"Mother fucker."
"I use detect magic!"
"They aren't magical."

Make sure they show in every game you run, no matter the setting.

"I roll to search the Noble's room."
"What's your Perception?"
"Roll it."
"Do I get a bonus from my Auspex?"
"... 01! With my bonuses that means I get seven successes!"
"You find the usual sort of thing a Nobleman with close ties to the Admech might have. Archeotech pistols, paintings, that sort of thing... You also find a hidden door with a complex lock on it."
"Scum, get over here and open this."
"My character's name is--"
"I don't care."
"Roll security and Tech use."
"Both? Alright.... 3 successes and 2 successes."
"Alright. You both uncover a room that seems to be the home to many old and sainted weapons. Chief among them are an old great sword and rapier, side by side on a wall. The read out below them reads..."
"Wait. What?"
"... Graywand..."
"... and Scalpel."
"Fuck you."
"Is there a dagger around?"
"Yes, in fact. There's something etched in on the base of blade."
"Let me guess, it's a Cat's--"
"--Claw, yes."
"I hate you."


But also, yes!
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Forgot to include a pic. Oh well.

"So, after searching the warehouse for half an hour, you stumbled across a couple of old, rusty, blades inside one of the cargo crates."
"Do they belong to that Seer?"
"You indeed see the name of Fredrick Grey on the manifest."
"These must be important. Are the Spirits of the swords awake?"
"They are indeed."
"I'm going to communicate with them."
"Okay. You can clearly see these swords are very sad."
"What? Why are they sad? Not enough cutting?"
"They say they weep for they have known the hands of true sword masters, and they will never again feel the likes of them again, nor wielded half as good as those two did them."
"Oh boy. Were they killed in some sort of occult ritual? Is that why they stopped using these swords?"
"No, it seems that red giant, and the small grey one, simply abandoned them, and they don't understand why. They even named them!"
"What did they name them?"
"Grey Wand and Scalpel."
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"In the conservatory of Thaddeus Hall, your investigators come across a large, grotesque, statue."
"What does it look like?"
"It's alien. It's like a twisted mockery of humanity, with squid-like eyes, tendril-like protrusions. In two of it's seven hideous hands it holds two blood stained swords above the a copper stained stone altar..."
"Oh goddamn it, I see where this is going. What are the names, Dave?"
"You don't know, They just seem to be two ordinary scimitars."
"Oh, well that was--"
"At the foot of the statue is in fact two Swords sticking into the legs of the beast, a great sword and a rapier."
"Thaddeus seems to have tagged them."
"No. No. Fuck you, no."
"They are tagged..."
"NO! NO! NO!"
"Gray Wand and Scalpel."
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And now for more pictures!
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Behold, a Khornate elm tree!
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Fafhard and The Grey Mouse visit Japan.
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Faf and Mouse find a world where everyone is a Biker. Including them.
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Here's another one of them and Wonder Woman. This is from that time in the seventies when Wonder woman was depowered and learned Kung Fu from an old Asian man who accompanied her on her adventures.

Because why not?
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In case you didn't know, that appearance in Wonder Woman was actually to help draw attention to a new comic, Swords of Sorcery, which featured the Twain.
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Dragonsword of Lankmahr. Where in the swords of Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser turn into dragons that you must reign in like misbehaving dogs.
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They literally do not directly fight any wizards in this tale, if I recall correctly. I have no idea who this guy on the cover is supposed to be.
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>*in these tales

Is what I meant to say.

I haven't read this collection yet, but from what I understand, the covers of old books didn't need to correspond with the story inside.
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They don't ever fight a naked Giant with a Trident in this one.
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Hey, a non-color version of that really great F&GM picture!
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Conan, eat your heart out.
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You know, a Fafhard and Grey Mouser HBO series would be pretty awesome and doable, I think. It would probably be cheaper to make than Game of Thrones at least, since the stories tend to take place on a smaller scale.
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Lankmhar is a bit like Detroit, but with two differences:

1) If you go to the wrong part of town, you run into Axe-wielding skeletons and not Gang bangers.

2) Lankmhar has good qualities.
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You know, I notice a lot of artists seem to ignore that Grey Mouser is called that because he wears grey. I see a lot of pictures of him in blue. Probably because it compliments Faf's red better.
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Fafhard and Mouser's further adventures in Japan.
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I thought I already posted this, but I guess not.
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Fafhrd and Mouser tripping balls.
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Some pages from the Chaykin/Mignola comic!

Also, do you spell it Grey Mouser or Gray Mouser?
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These are from the story "Ill-Met in Lankmhar", by the way.
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I also keep forgetting that in this first story, of two of them are only about 18-19. Such young men. Sort of explains why they act the way they do.
>Any of the other DnD settings?
They ARE a D&D setting. Lankhmar is pretty cool.
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And with this, I have posted all the images worth posting of the two that are worth posting. At least, from the images I have.

Yeah, we talked about it a bit in here. i meant specifically like Eberron and Dark Sun. I never played the Lankhmar setting though. It'd be cool if they made a splat for 4e. Or maybe DnD NEXT, even if that's terrible.

Then again, that would mean they might actually give us a new Spelljammer book, but that's not likely.
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>ningauble w/ 6 eyes


That cover is from the seventies (I think). His seventh eye is probably in his hood.
I think the important question is could Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser beat Bronn and Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane?

Yep. They've fought better than them, and better than themselves - along with monsters and liches.

Not that they'd be pushovers at all, and their victory might be one of those "live to fight another day" victories - but those count.

Every victory counts to the likes of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser!
Okay, so what if you set 10,000 Fafhard and Gray Mousers (5K each, I suppose) against a Space Marine? Who would win?

We would.

We would win.

Can you imagine? 5,000 red haired men almost to height with a Space Marine, screaming bloody murder and whacking him with great swords, whilst 5,000 smaller, gray-clad, men poke him at logical weak points in his armor, trying to penetrate it.

All of them deftly dodging his chainsword and bolter.

"Brother Sergeant, I don't believe I quite understand you, run me through the battle once more..."
"Brother Captain, I don't know how else to explain it. I was suddenly besieged by thousands of feral worlders, of whom I believe to be from Fenris, all attacking me, screaming bloody murder. I tried to defend myself and cut them down, but they all seemed to move out of the way just in time!"
"How many corpses did you recover?"
"None, didn't you hear me?"
"I see. Continue."
"Next came the rocks. I was suddenly pelted by all sides by rocks."
"How big?"
"Not very, but there was a good sized pile when the attackers finished. I didn't even notice the Gray, hooded, men until that point. At some point I could not see for all the stones hitting my visor."
"This seems odd. They were using rocks as projectiles? How did they launch them?"
"With leather straps."
"Before I knew it, the larger Feral Worlders were back to smacking me with their swords, and the gray ones were poking me with smaller, slender, swords. This was all a distraction, though."
"From what?"
"From one of the feral worlders and one of the gray men attaching chains to my boots, connected to a regiment of horses."
"They used the horses to trip me and drag me away."
"I see. And the Holy relic?"
"Well... one of the gray ones was holding it above his head and laughing, the others laughed too. That's when they all started to shuffle back into a cave that couldn't possibly hold them all."
"Anything else of interest?"
"They were aided by Daemons, I believe."
"Is that so?"
"I saw two hooded figures at the mouth of the cave after the thieves had piled in."
"They went in that quickly?" (cont.)
"Err, no, Brother Captain. The horses had dragged me a few miles out before I could free my self, and I was a bit turned around at that point; however, I was able to find the cave again. I saw the last two, they were paired off as one gray and one feral, and then they were joined by two figures in hooded robes that I did not see during the fight. I believe them to be Daemons."
"On what grounds?"
"One's face was shrouded completely in a darkness that could not be penetrated. If it had features, my helmet's auspex array could not pick them up. It carried half the relic to a little hut that was just a bit further inside the cave. The Hut then got up and walked deeper into the cave."
"Hmm. THe other?"
"It's hood was also covered in darkness, but i could see six... No, it was seven. Seven lights seemed to shine through. I realized they were eyes when one stretched out of the hood on a stalk and blinked at me."
"Did you make attempts to recover the relic?"
"I ran after them into the cave, but the perpetrators vanished somewhere inside. The cave itself wasn't that deep, and I could find no secret passages or anything that might indicate where they went. I blew apart wall, floor and ceiling trying to find them."
"Disturbing. We'll get a Deathwatch team on this, and I want you to lead it, Brother Sergeant."
"Thank you, Brother Captain, I will not disappoint you again."
"See that you don't."

What's amazing is how plausible that is.

I tried to work within the confines of what I know about the stories of the Two and of 40K. I know I was stretching it a bit by having Ningauble and Sheelba being in collusion, but it HAS happened before.

In this case they're probably too worn out from dealing with 5000 pairs of Nehwon's Finest Swordsmen to really squabble.
Archived, by the way. With only a few contributers - which to my shame, I am not numbered amongst - it has nevertheless been a thread of high quality.


Within the Bazaar, whose innumerable and exotic delights drew the eyes and stirred the spirits, amongst those relics rare and surely-storied, one oddity drew the sharp eyes of the Grey Mouser - well acquainted to divining the finest treasures of the greatest hordes.

A small flattened cube, sable and smooth, a box with a lid whose underside glowed with a strange radiance unlike that of even the witch-lights and bottled faeries that the Mouser brushed past on his approach.

The light - such as it was - became more obviously a wizard's spellbook. For who else could have such extravagance? Lacking the furious beauty of the caged nymph, idly stroking her leg against his sword arm, or the pleasing violet smokes of the hookah resting beside it - how then did this sparsely decorated book capture the Mouser's attention so?

It had no promises of power - no spells to stride the world or slay dragons. It had no gorgeous rubies upon the runes that arrayed under the lid - no box this, but a solid device of some otherworldly stone.

What captured the Mouser was none other than himself - his image captured alongside his bold companion, before a mountain that they'd conquered and whose greatest riches rested in his fattened purse at this very moment.

Beside it, in a wavering script that became clear even as his eyes watered was the blazoned herald: Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser - World Hopping.

What it meant, the Mouser could not guess - but that those most puissant archmages, matched in power only by their bitter rivalry and demanding requests of himself and his companion, were involved was beyond question.

Shaking his head at the nature of wizards - and glad for not the first time that his own studies were but a pastime - the Mouser turned to the nymph and the more sensible delights of the Bazaar.
"Oh, gentle nephew, allow me to hypothecate to you, for a moment, a situation. For, you see, in this hypothetical world, you yourself are an army. I do not mean you are some sort of one-man army corp, but more that there are literally thousands of you. Yes, indeed, a more accurate number would be yourself and 4,999 other selves which are also you. In this situation, you would not need the help of your friend, The Mouser for who better to entrust your own success with none other but yourself? To work in collusion with the small gray one would--"
"DON'T CARE ANYMORE. Work together or don't, just bring us the relic."

"If I might ask, dear Sheelba, of what import does--"
"You need not kn ow, my apprentice, just do the thing and be done with it."

I should have come up with a better name for this thread.
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So, hey. OP here. There wasn't as much discussion as I hoped there be, but what little there was was pretty great. i also enjoyed doing a bit of writefagging, and was hoping others would take a hand as well.

I was going to try and write another Fafhrd and Mouser visit (x) setting, but I was tired and had a headache, so i drew Gandalf chilling with Ningauble instead. Cheers.

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