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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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so, /tg/, my FLGS is having a dungeon design contest, and I want to win that motherfucker. its any system, mid-level, judged on storyline, playability, and creativity (based on levels, traps, treasure, creatures, etc).

I'm thinking of submitting a "Tucker's Kobolds"-esque idea I've been working on for a while, with a laundry list of nefarious (and surprisingly simple) traps, and a fuckload of Kobold legionnaires. System will be 3.5/PF.

I've got about a week and a half, and most of my traps thought out. I would like to ask you, dear /tg/, to help me refine this idea into a gem worthy of a gamestore plaque and $25 gift card.

TL;DR please help me critique and refine my kobold dungeon for a contest submission.
so, lets start with the Premise.

a vast colony of Kobolds has been living under a mountain range near several small towns and villages for ages. the Kobolds infrequently raid the villages or mines, bringing in adventurers to clean up the "infestation."

The Twist? the Kobolds have been doing this for years. they rotate through the towns, leaving some alone for years between raids, building new tunnel systems and "dungeons" for adventurers to explore, stocking it with monsters and novice kobold warriors. their population is much larger than anyone suspects.

how do they sustain themselves through this? they don't. the raiding, the dungeons, the adventurers, its all for show, literally. from the surface it just looks like a flair-up of kobold population on this or that side of the hills every few years, but underground, dungeonbuilding, trapmaking, and adventurer-killing are like "Running Man"-esque bloodsports. what's more, the kobolds recently made an alliance with some Drow and Duergar nearby to magically broadcast this sport via the Underworld-Wide-Web, a magical scrying network developed by the drow.
(sorry for the delay, had to run the GF to work)

so, the Kobolds sustain themselves with trade with other underdark races, and occasionally disguised or proxy'd trade with surface races, supplemented by their own productivity and the "treasure" they gain from killing adventurers. being master trapsmiths, they probably figured out the "create food & water trap" gig themselves as well.

I want the adventure to start innocuously, the party has been commissioned to exterminate a kobold warren under nearby foothills. as they progress through the dungeon though, the "monsters" they fight all seem to act like hammy pro-wrestlers and saturday morning cartoon kaiju than dungeon denizens, and the kobolds fight like comic relief characters and flee more often than not, until they find a "backstage door" and discover the true nature of the dungeon they're advancing through. this is where the kobolds go from "hilarious cannon fodder" to "JESUS FUCKING CHRIST THEY'RE EVERYWHERE" underground guerrillas. they may encounter Duergar "Stage Hands" and Drow "Production Managers" until they reach the heart of the warren, a Kobold city with architecture akin to a giant ant-hill, where they will fight "The Director," a Underdark Dragon/Shadow Dragon.
Mind if I steal some encounter ideas for a kobold dungeon I'll be running my party through?
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I want the shift in tone to be dramatic, incorporated in everything from the CR of the monsters and Traps to the tactics they use. I want the party to really FEEL that they've uncovered something nefarious, and might even be out of their league. the Kobolds will deffinately be punching above their weight, as I've already stat-ed out 6 or 7 Kobold Archetypes that will be taking advantage of "adventurer-like" min-maxing and feat selections. the Duergar and Drow were late-coming ideas, and I'd like some help plotting their rolls. i'm thinking the Duergar are the "monster wranglers" of this project, while the drow are the "Magic" behind it all. the Kobolds bear the weight of "staging," building the dungeons and traps. the "Director" is the Big Picture guy. a dragon has sufficient intelligence, charisma, and power to broker this kind of cooperation, maintain an orderly workplace, and profit from it.

in the end, I want the party to face a choice... attempt to eradicate this unique social construct (that has surprisingly benefited the surface world too, in a round-about way) and face an unfathomable backlash, OR take the secret to their graves (either by accepting a bribe or dying.)

this whole thing is going to be aimed at a mid-level party, so I want to aim at 8th to 10th level, as that is the opening act of "Mid Level Play." I want the dungeon to be impressive in both size and complexity, with a wide array of challenges, but I need to make sure it flows well and is playable the whole way through.

additionally, Kobold/Trap/Dungeon Delving General to keep this thing bumped.
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as long as you're not submitting it in any contests, I'm cool with that.

some of the encounters I have planned are pretty vicious, both numerically and actually... most of the kobold warrior types are swarm/phalanx fighters, with a feat selection and stats tailored to pumping their AC and assisting eachother in melee. these will be supported almost constantly by a sorcerer or bard, or both, and a detachment of Slingers.

the Kobolds will ALWAYS attack with no less than 4 to 1 numbers, maybe more, and retreat if reduced to less than 2 to 1, and will stack as many circumstantial bonuses/penalties as possible.

one constant I'm considering is forcing the party through hallways meant for small characters, with "choke points" where the kobolds (who can count as Tiny where advantageous) can move without penalty, but even Gnomes and Halflings will take squeeze-through penalties. I'm thinking this will also add to the Dramatic shift in the tone of the dungeon by removing the party from their familiar "comfort Zone" of a dungeon crawl and actually force them to CRAWL through tiny tunnels rigged with guillotine and summon swarm traps.

other encounters will include trap/ambush combos, and entire rooms rigged solely as a trap or puzzle, with the added stressor of combat or a time limit to force them to stay on their toes.

I'm thinking of what would be really excellent underdark monsters to include as "fodder," things that would be entertaining to watch, that Duergar could provide and wrangle. I might even include intelligent, armed opponents using "dwarvencraft" items.

I'm toying the the concept of an "Underworld-Wide-Web" by actually having it be a gargantuan system of tiny tunnels filled with spider silk that acts like "magical fiber-optics" to get around the problems of underdark radiation interfering with scrying magic and the whole "stone/metal interference" thing. they could use summoned Thaqqua and monsterous spiders for maintaining this system.
>in the end, I want the party to face a choice... attempt to eradicate this unique social construct (that has surprisingly benefited the surface world too, in a round-about way) and face an unfathomable backlash, OR take the secret to their graves (either by accepting a bribe or dying.)

Might want to consider a few more options, since you never know what PCs will do.
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I'd like to flesh out a few Hammy "TV Personalities" to use as Bosses, with The Director being the top dog. I really want him to have Style and Flair, a larger than life presence and scale of vision that is impressive to all, but still be a challenge a ragtag party of adventurers around levels 10 to 12 could (barely) hope to survive. I think The Director, as a Character, should also play a role throughout the dungeon as a sort of Adversarial presence, a malicious intent that pulls the strings upon which the party dances, until they cut those strings and go off the beaten path. after that, he should become like the player's role from Dungeon Keeper, meticulously micromanaging his forces and resources to not just kill, but humiliate the party, including the occasional random magical attack.
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what would you suggest?

Killing The Director would almost certainly destroy this fragile balancing act, but there's a chance the Drow could step in and pick up the slack.

maybe an option for them to interfere with the Web, or the tenuous alliances in the dungeon itself? but how? it would require a LOT of discovery and some crazy good roles to accomplish, I'd imagine. if you've got ideas for tessellating that into a more complex storyline option, I'd love to hear them.

they could also report what's going on down there to the surface, but who'd believe them? and for that matter, what could the surface DO if it were true?
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I'd like to incorporate the idea of an "Announcer" character, maybe. someone who narrates the action, and maybe even gives the party underhanded hints and backhanded praise at times, to add some more humor to the game. again, I'm trying to push up the Drama and the Comedy/Tragedy dichotomy of the experience. it might even be satisfying/fun for the party to rip a little bastard kobold out of his sound booth, only to have "The Director" come in over the Magic Mouth Loudspeakers and inform them they've only just scratched the surface. any ideas on good lines, gimmicks, or what-have-you to make this awesome?

here's a thought...

what if The Director wasn't really evil? what if he was doing this as a defense mechanism for an otherwise defenseless surface kingdom? what if it's all just a test to discover heroes strong enough to best the threats he had only just held back? what if he genuinely just enjoys the drama, and the performance of it all?

again, I want there to be a few deeper characters and motivations. The Kobolds even might be evil, but what if they devised this plan to maintain a more peaceful and productive existence than their previous lifestyles? what if the Drow and Duergar, while still being thoroughly corrupt and vile, maintain a sort of casual indifference to this project, maintaining a presence only for profit or entertainment? and for that matter, what about the Underdark folk who WATCH this sport? the Spectators? could there be an element of them even attempting to help or hurt the party?
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forgot my pic...
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I'm tapped out of ideas at this point, /tg/. can I get some feedback here or what?

I'm gonna post Kobolds until some more posters get in here.
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I love the announcer idea. You have got to include him.
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anyone have any ideas on clever uses of summon monsters, spells, alchemical items, or poisons in a dungeon setting? both from the badguy's or the party's point of view? how about things the 'bolds or Drow would work to counter that the PCs might try, or loopholes they might overlook?
Here's an idea

The viewers SPIKE bigtime when the players find out it's all a TV show, so they keep the ball rolling and continue to record the action while the PCs fight off the cast and crew. They can hear the narrator, and he's got nicknames for the entire party. They can hear the audience in the background of his studio, booing or cheering on the goings on. Maybe even chanting catchphrases.

Whoever loses doesn't matter; It's all about the ratings
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I do too, I'm just not quite sure how to best do that. I want him to be hilariously annoying, and annoyingly hilarious. but truthfully I have little experience in that arena. any Anons here got some ideas on Sports-Caster/Ringside Commentator characters and the kind of lines they'd use? I really just need a fistful of nuggets and a good reference or two, I can wing it from there.
Well, when they enter combat, stop describing the combat in the normal way you would, and do it strictly from the announcer's standpoint.

At some point the party should find a microphone, just as one of the sub bosses gives his 'I'm going to kick your ass WWE speech'.
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I'd thought about that. I'm thinking if this whole thing was like a web broadcast, could Magical Hackers use it like a Scrying tool to relay info to the party? could there be a Deep Gnome resistance out to see this thing fail? could a vengeful fangirl drow priestess throw summoned swarm spiders at the party for killing her favorite Orc Gladiator? could the party's arcane trickster "hack in" to the magical internet and start cutting himself a slice of the betting/booky action?

at that point though, its really blurring the lines between D&D/PF and X-Crawl and Shadowrun...

... but I think I LIKE that.
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I was thinking of using hints like "the monster postures ridiculously and mentions something about snapping into you like a SlimJim. roll initiative."

now, in fact, I think I want to make an Otyugh Gladiator based on Macho Man Randy Savage...
However deep you want the rabbithole to go, man. I'd drop bits in the announcers lines about bookies and coin flowing and see if the party does anything with it before I'd devote a lot of time to developing beyond that. It could be done off the cuff pretty easy.

One thing you have to include:
While the party is in the narration phase of a big boss fight, and they're shitting their pants, if at any point they have helped any Kobold who wasn't so keen on the whole scheme or something, he should run out of the woodwork with a wooden chair and break it over the boss' back.
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fuck, a production this big needs a soundtrack. anyone got suggestions on stuff I should download or a playlist I can find that would help?

Then check the sidebar
you know, I thought about the idea of incorporating NPCs that could help the party out, and the idea of a kobold on the inside sabotaging things in the party's favor could be pretty awesome.

what are some nice theatrical touches I could use to make some fights more ridiculous/fun/intriguing/challenging?

Oh! Example! an Ogre that poses as an Ogre Mage with the help of a few low level casters and Wire-Fu "flying" around the party and attacking them with an "Animated" sword, when its all just hanging on almost invisible Spidersilk ropes concealed with clever lighting and pyrotechnics.
Give em a beard and a barbwire baseball bat
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forgot my pic...

HA! that's perfect, thanks anon!

... I wonder if any of the judges will get these jokes? I wonder if its a "play & judge" thing, or if they'll just read it and judge it that way?
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Well, it's kinda hard to say, as I mean what really happens will be what plays out over the course of the campaign and no matter what you're probably going to have to improvise. But I mean, just consider, what if they try to take over the deal? Maybe become Directors themselves or at the very least try to hijack scrying and whatnot to use on their side. If they convince the surface with proof, maybe they could get some kinda backup to better shut the thing down, who knows.

Also, another thing to consider is the audience. Maybe how the audience feels can affect the plot, like a huge gameshow type thing. The players could win them over, alienate them, or even find a way to shut them off from even viewing the whole shebang to begin with. I dunno, just things that might happen.

Or they could all die, that is also a possibility. If you allow them to roll up new characters, how would you suspect them to join the party? Maybe they're keeping some adventurers captured in some sort of gladiator type shebangabang.
Who cares, give 'em the armbar.

This reminds me of an adorable as fuck comic where a kobold is breathing in a cold area. When asked why he explains he wants to make dragon smoke.
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not bad.

hey, Anons, what do you think would happen if you cast Animate Object on a Bear Trap?

... for that matter, what would happen if you filled a room or hallway with that?

also, what are great ways to entice a party into a room that is OBVIOUSLY a trap?
Just a random idea but if you wanted it to get even more crazy then maybe start dropping hints how this isnt the first time the adventurers have tried this dungeon.
>The kobolds actually have many 'adventurers' captured and mind wiped and they release them at the dungeon entrance with the memory of being given this quest by a village or city.
>When they die they just heal them up and wipe their memory and do it again at a later date at a different location
>Different adventuring teams have different fan names and popularity
And outfits.
You had me at this

Fake treasure.

Anything from glamored objects that players will Metagame knowledge about.

Or things like what appears to be a triggered trap set with the "last trap" obviously triggered by the body draped over the opened treasure chest. Have some scorch marks, cobwebs, and some molten looking gold on top and sides. Players won't expect the trap then. And if all goes bad, then their reward is gold-colored lead/rocks.

Forcing players to run back into a trapped room is also doable like the Indiana jones style "chase" scene. What is "chasing" them can be anything you imagine; lava, giant bolder, gelatinous cube, living spells, bees, etc.
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this is fantastic. this is so good that it MUST be used.

I had already figured on incorporating other aspects of "someone has done this before." i might even have the party's course after discovering the "backstage" force them through "disused" sections of the Showcase Dungeon, where there could be Portal-esque wall graffitti, abandoned campsites, and lost gear of dead adventurers, as well as other old "props" the Kobolds starting storing there.

in fact, that'd probably be the ONLY place the party could rest in dungeon, and only after convincing the 'bolds and WIZARDS that they were dead, like after a cave-in or something.
Nah - remember, KISS.
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Keep it up, Anons! this is GOLDEN!


you like that? I'm pretty proud of it.

what about some really badass Kobold champions? what kind of super-kobold NPC with Class Levels could single-handedly (or under the right circumstances, with support) challenge a 10th level party?
>what kind of super-kobold NPC with Class Levels could single-handedly (or under the right circumstances, with support) challenge a 10th level party?
What's the name of that kobold who ascended to godhood at level 4?
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so far thats gotten a lot of positive feedback, but it DOES complicate things a lot. I dunno if I could implement that eloquently in the short time I have before the deadline.

an old buddy of mine and I once came up with two polar opposite Kobolds meant to make the PCs shit their pants. one was a Monk, the other was a Barbarian, and they both followed divergent paths, the monk focusing on stunning and nonlethal takedowns, while the other grappled and broke motherfuckers necks in a rage. they both were made to end fights quickly. they were named Gurd and Ebil. I might incorporate them here.

If you're making Tucker's Kobolds 2.0, you'll be aware that you don't need "super" kobolds to challenge a party of that level, just good planning.

Also, another trap of some fun. Keys/door solutions where the mcguffin is needed to proceed. This forces them to get into a room somehow.

Silly things can lay within, like Invisible or Darkness ensorcelled Gorgons that become visible if they try to dispell the area. Or even a Mirror of opposition if you want to be even more dickish.

Some traps are fun just being obvious too. A repeating fireball trap shooting down a hallway periodically enough for a character to dodge into crevices (filled with bees) or other trapped areas could be fun.

Aka, take Most Extreme Elimination Challenge, add traps to even the "obvious" safe zones, and you're golden for the petty but intelligent trap design of Tuckers Kobolds.
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Pun-Pun, and I want legitimate challenges, not asshattery that would destroy the party right off. although, I imagine some of that could be used...

hey, what are some good optimal builds online for 3.X that the party would hate to see used against them? again, trying to keep it to CR 8 to 12, maybe more if accounting for optimization.
Sounds pretty awesome. Would be a nice mind fuck for the players as well.
>none of your back stories are real. They are just constructed...

A deafening voice fills the dungeon ' Its futile to try to escape. You've tried 100s of times before and a 100 times youve been captured. Give up and you can just forget this ever happened. Weren't you content to just live like this, happy and delusional? '
>dungeon truman show

You're thinking Pun Pun, and he now can do it at level 1.

However, speaking as a player who helped make Pun Pun better (fun times)... It's not something ever intended to be used for/against players. Pun Pun is quite literally the biggest theoretical endeavor the CharOP sub-forum on the old site has or likely ever will undertake(n).

tl;dr Don't use Pun Pun. He's not meant to be played except in imagination since he is the destroyer of any campaign.
Well, kobolds have darkvision, abuse that shit!
One thing strikes me; if this is a bloodsport, this will go off on a slight tangent from standard Tucker's Kobolds. The traps won't be designed to kill adventures with brutal economy, but to kill adventurers in the goriest, most impressive manner possible, while still being (mostly) efficient.

Well, Kobolds do enjoy a nice bonus in the rule "Kobolds with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level -3."

Toss on some of the better 1 CR templates and some class levels and you have tough little buggers.

I actually used a similar thing against my party. The Kobolds were just Lvl 3 Warriors (CR 0 so far), Feral (+1 CR), Mithril Warriors (CR+1), which ended up in soem pretty nasty little guys when you swamped a party with a ton of them.

Any not lethally hit would be smart enough to play dead until they could burrow beyond reach to heal back up and come back around.
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not familiar with much of MEEC, but I get the idea of layering traps. the Zelda McGuffin gimmick is a nice touch. that could even be referenced by the announcer.

I'd had some other good traps in mind, but that's good shit right there, anon.

one I wanted to use was an Antimagic'd vertically cylindrical chamber that the party would have to traverse vertically, except that there's no ladders and no magic. there IS, however, a long, winding carving of a serpentine dragon ascending the tube in a spiral, while the rest of the walls are smooth. the party could traverse the room by climbing horizontally, slowly spiraling up the tube, while trained bats and spiders harry them as they climb. when they finally reach the top, hopefully well after any buffs they'd had expire, they breach the antimagic zone just in time to have Grease cast upon them, or barring that, halfway up, a hidden cache of alchemical explosives is detonated, turning the entire chamber into a giant fougasse that ejects the party and deposits them in a totally different chamber, where an ambush awaits.
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this has always been my interpretation of Kobold Trapmaking to begin with, since trapmaking is a celebrated pastime in their society, even up to their patron deity. Traps aren't just defense to kobolds, they're entertainment, and entertaining-yet-efficient traps are what they do best. other cruel races might find an appreciation for their "art." that is, in fact, the entire premise.

another great kobold trap I thought of. a similar tube fougasse that launches the party at a giant "backboard" and "hoop" over a pit of lava. the backboard is marked with point values in draconic, and dozens of old scratches and blood stains.

also, badass kobolds = pic related.
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I think I've seen Feral before, but where can I find the Mithril Warrior template, anon?

Just Youtube MEEC, it's not that complicated tbh for some of the events, but it's the humor of knowing a crowd is watching.

Oh yes. This reminds me.

Dungeonland recently gave me the idea, but possibly recreate the TRON race scene with something causing walls of force to start being made erratically. Toss in some freezing or poison cloud effects and it's good.

Also, if you want some danger force the characters to do dangerous stuff that doesn't result in their death.

For example, your Antimagic cylinder could have a pool of water at the bottom, enchanted so that you can jump into it at any time and escape any of the threats at the top... But now you have to climb the entire thing all over miserable and wet. XD

Teleporters are also fun, why not introduce the party to a Hypercube room? I plan on doing that to my party eventually, but it fits your situation even better.

Sorry OP, I meant Mineral Warrior.

It's in the Forgotten Realms: Underdark books, or you can google it and it's on the Wizards site. This also fits in with the drow if you wanted to tie in "promoters"/advertising, though that may be stretching things.
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I think the Hypercube is overdone, and I don't know if any of the related parties would have discovered the concept yet. plus, Hypercubes tend to involve a lot of frustration in my experience, and I don't think that'd be conducive to the feel I'm going for with this dungeon. and I mean, after all, this is a dungeon thats going to have Kobold Batman and an Otyugh Macho Man in it... a Hypercube might be a little too highbrow for it, ya know?
I like the idea, but I'm unsure about the execution.

although, I did get an idea for a "Kobold Avengers" team made up of templated and geared up kobolds themed after The Avengers... might be a bit TOO much to include, though. maybe just a party of elementally templated Kobolds?
who fight like a super sentai team
Anyway, I'm OP so good luck.

I do wish there had been more anons posting than just me, but you've got some good ideas.
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eh? dude, I'm OP.

although I DO wish there'd been more posting.

I might resurrect the thread after dinner taking a break for now.

yeah. I kinda liked the idea of a Kobold Iron Man though. pic related.
Kind of fun. So what I'm getting here is that this is sort of a sport. Invite the adventurers in etc.

If so, then you should run it like a sport. Make it the kobold version of the NFL. You got teams, you got arenas, you got sponsors, etc.

So each area, say around each town, might be the home ground of a team with a specific set of sponsors. Ravens, 49, etc.

You might want to think about this from the point of view of rules. Define how you 'win' from the kobolds pint of view. Obviously just killing the adventurers isn't a win. Else they would just gank them right away. So there has to be something else going on.

Some form of rules/limitations that make it a challenge.

Consider what a sport season might look like. What is the role of a Superbowl?

And who are the kobolds actually chearing for? could there be more than one side?

Consider, what if one set of kobolds are recruiting adventuerers to go through the dungeons? So they hit dungeon one and clear it, they hit dungeon two and clear it, could they go all the way? Will we finally have someone beet last seasons record? Could they actually etc etc etc

Something almost like two leagues playing against each other. One league is the 'dungeon league' the other is the 'adventure league'. Who will win the dungeon cup?

And then, because they are kobolds, the cheating begins...

The players of course never know. Not until maybe the end. Maybe if they pull off a good victory they hear some applause echoing. Maybe they get the feeling that people are watching. At the end, the 'manager' they never knew they hand, makes contact etc etc

Something to consider. If it is going to be a sport, make it a sport!

During the teams time back at the town kobolds from the dungeon team might try to assisinate, sabatage or otherwise reduce the effectiveness of the heroes.

Representatives from the adventure league side of the house might try to stop them - WTF is going on - think the players if they see this clash.

They might find that some local merchant decides to 'sponsor' the heroes in clearing out that terrible place. For some reason he wants them to wear some item - it allows the players to be more easily followed and scryed.

The merchant is of course a front for the kobolds.

Heck, it may be an actual sponsorship - just wear these shirts with the strange writing (written in kobold 'eat at mikes').

What I would play up is that nothing seems right. It SHOULD seem right, you got your dungeon and your monsters. But it should feel wrong.

think 'reality TV'. Like that show about the guy where he thinks he is a contestant but in reality he is the only 'real' person on the show. But in this case the PC are the only ones that don't know they are on a show.

Could the towns be in on it? Certainly some members of the town would have to be. Maybe they cut a deal long ago with the kobolds to allow this, and be left alone for the most part. Maybe some get rich off of it.

Could the pc's suddenly have fans that make no sense? How would people know what they had done down in the dungeon? And why do they want autographs?
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this is good input, and we'd already flirted with the idea of a supporting cast behind the party.

perhaps this whole big thing is a device created by the conflict between Kobolds and Gnomes, ala Kurtlmak and Garl Glittergold, and the other races are allies the individual races can pull in. maybe the "Deep Gnome Resistance" and the surface Gnomes play along with the machinations of the kobolds, while their dwarf, halfling, human, and elf companions end up as unwitting stars in an underground drama. I like it!

however, while I'd love to see this evolve into a full fledged campaign, I can't lose sight of the short-term goal of the Dungeon Design Competition I'm entering this in.

anyone got some devious traps or unique encounter ideas?

The question becomes, what is the end game? For the PC?

Do they discover what is going on? Do they see it through, and get XYZ reward at the superbowldungeon? Do they expose what is going on and risk the shadow treaty coming apart and a war starting? And what if they do win? What then, do the kobolds just kill our guys or do they send them off till next season, maybe bring them back as commentators - maybe even trainers?
Tucker's Kobolds doesn't really work anywhere near as well in 3.5. Spellcasters had most of their limitations torn off, they're inherently more flexible than their older counterparts, and kobolds themselves are a lot less threatening, mainly due to a combination of HP bloat, new save mechanics that don't favor trap monkeys, and missile weapons in 3E being absolute shit(changed in PF, but ONLY if you specialize in them or play a Ranger and have Favored Enemy going). I mean, sure, the melee types are comparatively nerfed, but that's what you get for playing a game with design input by Monte Cook and/or SKR.
kobolds run the 'dungeon league' and the gnomes run the 'hero league'. I could see that.
as for the surface folk being in on it, I highly doubt it, but there is precedence for kobolds disguising themselves as halflings and gnomes to trade with the surface or stage surprise raids. again, I don't want the complexity of it all to hit the party until they're already half-way into the dungeon and suddenly realize how deep this thing runs. I want that moment of cognitive dissonance. I want to BLOW THEIR GODDAMNED MINDS. THAT is what will win the competition.
well, tough shit, I guess, 'cause this is the system I know, and its what I'm going to run with. however, there's no restriction on introducing new material, and I am one Homebrewing mother-fucker, so I might just build some new trapmaking options. i already intend to use at least a dozen Trapsmith/Combat Trapsmith NPCs to keep this thing interesting.
also, the 'bolds and Drow will be using at least as much arcane cheese as the party, so I'm not terribly worried about it. this might not ever even get ran for a party, I might have to just submit it in writing. who knows. the judging process is kind of vague.

How is this for blow their minds.

The part walks down a hallway. They trigger a TPK trap, something stupid. Something that screams 'that GM'. Let the players spin for a few minutes as they try to deal with it, but realize they can't, let them be pissed about how unfair it is as their death looms...

Then a beholder or somesuch shows up, paralyzes them (fuck saves), mumbles something about penalties - heals the players and disintegrates the BS trap, then vanishes.
>Lambert Carbine
Yes, perfect
again, might not ever actually get played. I need to be able to write this out, wholesale module style and format, and hand it off as its own standalone run. that kind of thing might not play out well, and I don't want to slap them with 4th-wall-shattering ridiculousness quite THAT blatantly. I might go that far for an april fools run though.
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any other ideas? any new posters wanna weigh in?
I've seen some pretty good Kobold builds.

Scout is nasty presuming they have some kind of ranged weapon that doesn't require loading actions and a tunnel with murderholes running parallel with the tunnel the PC's are in. The Scout runs down his hallway unloading his pistols/crossbows into the PC's, gets bonus damage on every shot.

I've seen a Kobold Monk that was an ultimate grappler - got bonuses for grappling things bigger than him, could knock someone out if they one the grapple twice, and did absurd amounts of damage with grapple checks.

Ninja is a good Kobold class, I hear.
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start with this as a base
it's a random dungeon generator with a lot of customization.
Then check out the PDF I included.
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hell yes.

I was thinking Kobold Slingers are the rank and file low level ranged attackers, focusing on volleys, while the crossbowmen kobolds would likely be the scouts/snipers that go for headshots and bonus damage.

although, now that you've mentioned pistols, I might just have to give them alchemical firearms...

Wow. And here all this time I thought kobolds were absolute shit for any sort of direct physical damage dealing.
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now a trap dump
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sweet, that'll save me time on the maps. thanks, anon!
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Pun Pun has infinite stats.... can you get more overpowered?
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you are my hero, anon.
Sorry, unrelated to the rest of the thread, only focusing on the 'Tucker's kobolds' part:

For those of you still reading; Tucker's kobolds being a 'kobold' thing seems mildly silly. I mean, dwarves make traps too. Often much more mechanically complex and creative ones. Drow are supposed to be remarkably paranoid and talented at it too.

Tucker's Kobolds doesn't seem like it's "Kobolds are sneaky, trappy, clever bastards" as it is more the default result of any entity preparing to defend their home against an assault by (presumably) PCs. If dwarves or elves or goblins tried to do the same thing, they'd be just as good at it, if not better.

I'm I just stupid, or is that pretty much true?
That is mythologically inaccurate as Achilles both had a shield and did not have a secret weakness other than not being invincible.
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It's true, but kobolds and goblins are considered a low level threat, whereas dwarves, elves and drow have other things going for them too. It's just showing how the weaker races can be difficult as well.
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this one is my favorite
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I am going to have an insane lich narrate what's going on inside of a dungeon I want to run.

Also, flying coffins are the most fun ever.
And ballpit orcs.

Sorry if this is off topic. Your idea seems fantastic.
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this totally reminds me of the DJ from The Warriors.
It might be interesting to have an announcer who periodically updates the party about their status while dungeon crawling.
Perhaps to go even farther with The Warriors, maybe the dungeon is quite complex and requires the party to choose which directions to go in, but in this complex there are gangs of Underdark beasties who want to be rewarded by slaying the adventures.
Oh and pic related is another idea. These spiders live in holes in trees, but they hide the holes with their abdomen. Perhaps the secret inner workings of the dungeon (which would be mostly a facade with a lot of crawl space) are only accessible by knowing how to move these spiders.


Also, gross.
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its true, but the kobold is the paragon of it, because their racial craft bonuses, and even racial alternative class features, as well as some of their other racial perks, such as the special rules they get when making Profession Miner checks, make them ideal for it. after all, its their patron gods portfolio, too. even the dwarves will admit to this.

also, the kobold's meager nature begs, almost demands, that they be underestimated. in my experience, folks like rooting for an underdog. and the sad part is, with how prolific the "Tucker's Kobolds" idea has gotten, players STILL underestimate them. so the gimmick still works.
ribs actually
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... what >>23016736 said.

but in fact, that is a great idea. I was thinking lots of really high DC tiny trap doors, but mundane monstrous guardians disguised as objects or scenery also makes this even more fun.

... god, I almost feel sorry for the players that have to run through this.
Mimic doors.
Mimic horses.
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these guys are the last resort
high level drider, ettercap, an aranea adventurers whose fame as defenders was escalated when they got a contract to work for the kobolds and be even richer and more famous.
Basically the boss fight that's even harder than the final boss.
first thing I see on /tg/ " TUCKERS KOBOLDS 2.0.....gonna be a good night tonight for /tg/
polite sage for simple non productive comment
Huh. Okay, thanks.
Anybody archive this yet?
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>spider trying to wear helmet
Do 4E. I don't care if you like it or not. Trust me, it'll work better for this idea.
Have every room in the dungeon connected by a network of tiny size tunnels. This allows the kobold defenders to either quickly reinforce a room or retreat if faced with difficulty.

A smart party might quickly catch on to this of course and start blocking off these entrances. Or they might even attempt to use them. Perhaps as a back-up mechanism the kobolds are capable of flooding the tiny passageways (and you could perhaps leave this option open for an adventuring group to discover).

I'd suggest that in any trap-heavy dungeon to make it "fair", that is - the players should be perfectly capable of turning the tables on the trap-makers with a little imagination, subtlety, and guile.
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bumps and compliments are always appreciated, anon.

this is actually a pretty badass idea. Aranea sorcerer, Ettercap Trapsmith/rogue, Drider Ranger/Scout/Cavalier.

aranea sticks the PCs in place with webs and summons swarms, Drider with Freedom of Movement charges through with a lance, getting crazy bonus damage, ettercap runs interference/flanking and sets up boobytraps outside the area of the web to keep the PCs further occupied. very nice.
You need announcers? You need solid fucking gold?


boom. The announcers for this game are -great-.
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>animated beartrap
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this, is, in fact, going to be the dramatic turning point I want to feature in the dungeon, where the players realize the dungeon they're in is a faux dungeon designed inside a larger, much more dangerous one. the moment the PCs recognize that the place is riddled with kobold-sized bolt-holes and murder holes, and start trying to dungeon crawl in those, THAT is when the kobolds will get deadly serious. also, as I mentioned above, there will be many "choke points" with traps, a lot of which may be designed to collapse and seal themselves in an emergency. this can also be a great tool to make the characters have to backtrack through other parts of the dungeon, or find other ways, thus leading to the discoveries I talked about in >>23013617
Holy shit, that was hilarious.
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anon, I did not expect to click that link and hear the words "Brutal Ass Shanking" within the first 30 seconds...

thank you.
Make sure you watch all the parts available. I'm still on part two.

Link for p2: http://youtu.be/GJYJBoYDfFE
You should have a friend who is really fucking good at improv commentate.

Or two friends, and have them bounce jokes off of one another.
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that was pretty awesome. I can't even imagine how I'd incorporate it though.

God, I wish I had friends as cool as that.

alright, well, feel free to take this thread wherever you want it, or let it die, guys. I gotta take a shower and go to bed, work early tomorrow. I'll probably check in again soon, though. if this thread is gone by then, I'll get some stuff written and post it for review.
Anyone know how to archive? I'd love to be able to come back and take some of this for my own dungeons and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
THAT is a valid point, but if I like something enough, I just save it onto my hard drive.

alas, I don't know how to archive, nor if this thread is really worthy of it.
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Done: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23011737/
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why thank you, Anon.
Whoo! Doing good deeds for the community!
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Pic related

Definitely worth it. You better win that fucking contest.
And if you don't, you are now obligated to post the winner, because that would have to be some wicked shit.

Hmm, didn't expect to see this thread in sup /tg/, but I was the original guy helping OP, also meant to say "...I'm out OP..." not that I was you.

Anyways, on the matter of Pun Pun, I was the one that gave him the ability/access to infinite reach. While his six base stats were easily given infinite numbers, his other abilities took some effort to become what they are today.
There's more than one Achilles myth.
Out of curiosity, what are they? The only one I know involved his mother dipping him in a river to make him invincible. But she held his ankle and it didn't get dipped so it was his only vulnerable spot.
I can't really remember. I was really into greek myths as a kid and just remember there being more than one story about him. It was kind of combined and there's actually a bit of contradiction in some of the stories. Maybe even the Iliad, I can't remember. It's been a while since 3rd grade.

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