Hey /tg/, I'm waiting for Version 3.0 to be released, but until then, I've been drawing up plans for an AdEva game using the 2.5 GM guide. I've never run an AdEva game and could use some help regarding the Mythos and Themes for the game. I'll be using the Taoist mythos, though Taoism doesn't have a strict pantheon of deities or a story of creation I've been pulling from general Chinese mythology in some areas. >What is Taoism? Taoism is a Religion/Philosophy that advocates harmony with the Tao. The Tao cannot be explained as it is beyond reason and human understanding but it can be described roughly as the way or path, the ultimate universal force, and the primordial essence of all things. The Tao is nameless, as opposed to all named things which come from the Tao.
I've written the following background story. The Tao created One, One created Two, Two created three. This is the origin of all things. That which was pure and light rose and became the heavens, this became Yang. That which was impure and dark sank and became the earth, this became Yin. Yin and Yang created P'an Ku to shape the earth and create harmony from chaos. P'an Ku completed his charge and fell into a deep slumber. Nüwa, another being of Yin and Yang, came upon the dormant P'an Ku. Nüwa, using the blood of P'an Ku, set about creating life to fill the world. As she created life she noticed the work of P'an Ku starting to be undone, heaven and earth began collapsing in on one another. Nüwa stopped in her creation and built the wall of heaven to separated heaven and earth. After completing the wall of heaven Nüwa , like P'an Ku, fell into a deep slumber. That was 4 billion years ago. 15 years ago P'an Ku awoke. Seeing the world as not harmonious, P'an Ku started on the path of annihilation, remaking the world to be in harmony with the Tao. This was stopped by the organization NERV who utilized Sha Wujing's Yueyachan to stop P'an Ku and send him into a deep sleep. But not before he was able to awaken several beings that had accompanied him when he shaped the earth. Regarding terminology. P'an Ku replaces Adam, Nüwa replaces Lilith, Sha Wujing's Yueyachan replaces Lance of Longinus, The 8 immortals will serve as the Angels, Nerv is the same because I like the acronym, JADE system replaces Magi, the Wall of Heaven replaces the Geofront, Daoji replaces Tabbris, and Taiji replaces SEELE.
I know awakening either P'an Ku or Nüwa will create a third impact. P'an Ku will want to recreate the world which he sees as in disharmony. Nüwa will want to finish her original project of creating life, humanity was what happened when she stopped midway through. I'm not sure where to go from this, as far as secret organizations go, I was thinking of having the group Taiji maybe be striving to reunite humanity with the Tao via a pseudo-Instrumentality project. I'm not sure what the rename the Evangelions. I was thinking either Phoenixes, Dragons, or Immortals. Any input on the mythos is great. As for themes, I was thinking of using Hegel's Master Slave Dialectic.
>>23945424Looks like it can work. The two things that leap to mind is that the origin of the Angels feels... weak. Like there needs to be something else there.Also, one thing that might come up is the complicated names. Are you planning on running this IRL or online? These might not be so bad spoken aloud, but I can foresee people misspelling them left and right online.Then again, that is more of a per-group issue.
>>23945424>>23945481Idea: what if the Angels are not something that was with P'an Ku when he shaped the Earth?P'an Ku wakes up, sees the world in disharmony, and wills that the slate be wiped clean so he can begin again before he went back to sleep. The Angels ARE that will, they exist to do that and only that. Its not that he failed to cleanse the world, it is that his attempt to is still ongoing.Sure, it takes a couple of decades to do. But when you are an immortal god being that sleeps for billions of years at a time, what is 15 years?
>>23945481ONe thing I always liked was that the entire reasoning behind the theistic naming of the creatures was obfuscating terminology. The judo-christian themes were as wrong as they could be and they kept the people in-universe guessing as to what the hell was going on - At least that was my take on it.If you're taking it as these are ACTUALLY the immortals who are ACTUALLY these mythic deific forces, this actually changes quite a bit. Taiji is harder to hate when they're legitimately trying to get back up with their gods, rather than simply use their powers to BECOME gods.Try and think of an end-game and a system of results that ends up being a fun role-playing experience for the players. Stock Evangalion is shit for that because everything went toast because noone did shit, so remember that your players will want to be active in the story.Maybe there are eight Evangalions as well, either in the background or available to drive, with different abilities. These are the yin to the angel's Yang, and Nerv is a front for a legitimate opposing force to the other Immortals. The battles between them aren't so much brutal brawls to the death, but gentlemanly duels to decide what harmonies will reign supreme at the end of the war.
>What is Hegel's Master Slave Dialectic First, Dialectics is a way to resolve a disagreement. It has three parts, a Thesis (Idea) an Antithesis (disproves the Idea) and a Synthesis (New Idea). Example.Thesis: Now is night. Now is the immediacy of time. Write this down and go to sleep.Antithesis:You wake up, but Now is day. Now is NOT night. So the thesis is false.Synthesis: Now is whenevery you say it is. Now is always actually this particular time, but Now is also possibly any time. The MS dialectic has the following parts.Thesis: Master is free, Slave is dependentAntithesis: Master is dependent, Slave is freeSynthesis: Slaves can be set free by being dependent.To explain in greater detail. Hegel states that consciousness is a social construct. We can't know we are real unless someone else recognizes us. (This is why it sucks when someone gives us the silent treatment, they are not recognizing us, we are not sure we are real). When two consciousness meet each other, they can only think of each other in terms of themselves (Ex: My head itches, I itch it, you are scratching your head, your head must be itchy). Because of this, it becomes impossible for the two to tell each other apart, neither consciousnesses recognizes each other as separate and they can only think of each other in terms of themselves. Each one wants to be singular, but it can't tell the difference between itself and the other so each one sets out to rectify this by a fight to the death.
>>23945674OK, so you know your theme. Now comes the hard part.How does this become a gameplay element without you having to sit in a room and explain it to your players? Because that will never fly, it has to be something they experience not learn.That's the tricky part. Maybe you could have some master/slave dichotomy on terms of the players, like maybe they're criminals or are somehow indebted to Nerv and being forced to pilot. Then we find out Nerv can't really stop them from doing shit, they're either not legitimately government or they just don't have the resources or the need to chase you when you run so they'll just get new slaves when you inevitably go nuts and run away. The answer, then is to willingly pilot the Evas and actually save the goddamn world. Noone'd see it coming.
>>23945674During the struggle, one consciousness submits and the other dominates. One becomes a master and the other becomes a slave. The slave recognizes the master and works for him while the master protects the slave and does not recognize the slave. One is free the other is dominant. Thesis.However, the master is not recognized by an equal, he is recognized by a lesser being, it is not true recognition. He is also dependent on the slave for sustenance. The slave at the same time, by shaping the world and building things, affirms himself and gains recognition. (Ex: When I draw a picture, i impart part of myself into the image and are assured that my consciousness and being are real. The slave is free. The master is dependent. Antithesis. Now, at this point, both master and slave have realized that the master slave relationship is illogical and self defeating, so both become workers and recognize each other. Where one had authority and no responsibility and another had no authority and responsibility, now both become equals.
>>23945491>>23945534Its in person. I just grabbed the 8 Immortals as angels, I really would like to include some symbolism for Yin and Yang as >>23945584 explained, but from what I've read, neither yin or yang can rule supreme. Both have the capacity to destroy the world, its them existing in harmony that avoids that.
>>23945938Also. How much of all this do I reveal to the players at the start of the game? Regarding the theme of the master slave dialectic, I was thinking of trying to develop relationships between the players and NPCs that start out as the Thesis (someone is a slave the other is a master), then later on the rolls reverse and someone is revealed to be dependent and the other is actually free. Then, at the end both reconcile and become equals.
>>23945938That's an amazing symbol. I like.What if Nerv was a third party trying to keep that balance? Kaiji is secretly run by Nuwa who keeps trying to create new shit, so she keeps sending new monsters out all Rita Repulsa style that goes and wrecks shit. Meanwhile, P'an Ku is a different, directly opposing faction that has a set number of Immortals that, while defeatable, are entirely un-killable. He sends shit out to blow stuff up.Meanwhile, Nerv represents humanity's stake in all this. They've reverse-engineered some of Nuwa's monsters, they've studied the advanced harmonious technology of P'an Ku, and they've made something new. something ACTUALLY new. That legitimately threatens the yin/yang harmony. And now I"m imagining some of the constructs from Asura's Wrath, and that would be awesome.What do the players do? They just want giant monsters to stop blowing up their cities, but every time they kill something the other side tries to take advantage because they're dumbshits who think that THEIR side of yin/yang is more important, so they'll wipe the other side out and re-establish balance later.
>>23946008Depends how much you want to be a secret to surprise on them.Probably best to start them off with what the public knows, and work your way up over time. handling the exposure of the plot to your pilots is probably one of the hardest parts of AdEva.
>>23945938If you remove the dots in the yin-yang symbol, the logo looks better, I think.
>>23946008Reveal nothing to the players up front, just like any good horror game. Let them figure it out. If they don't get any of your terminology, let them use Wikipedia to look up your confusing words and say that that's what their character does next time they get a break. The Master/Slave dialectic needs to be subtle, but more importantly it needs to be directly applied to the players. Maybe have some NPCs in the background who have the same shit happening, because sometimes that kind of distance helps the players visualize what's going on, but there needs to be a direct master/slave relationship going on against the players. Make everyone take a dependent or a debt somehow, or just encourage it. Make all the characters meet in jail like I mentioned above, and piloting Evas is their ticket outta there. Something like that.Again, just to re-iterate, don't tell the players a goddamn thing about your setting that they don't learn first-hand. If they don't get your complicated philosophy, then that means you didn't do it right, or they managed to find a rabbit hole you missed before - In which case, don't feel bad to change your entire campaign to better fit what the fuck just happened.
>>23946045I like the part about Nerv reverse engineering Nuwas other creations, thus creating Angels. The part about Nuwa and P'anKu creating monsters to run out and wreck things is good, but according to Chinese mythology, Nuwa created humanity to keep her company, then went and created the wall of heaven to maintain what P'an Ku had done. In this version, she didn't finish and her awakening would result in her getting back to what she had originally intended, which would re quire the elimination of humanity.
>>23946114The Jail idea is pretty good, it would certainly tie into the MS theme. Another link I was thinking of is the synthesis and the yin and yang duality. Somehow I could tie the realization that both parties are better off equal into the harmonious symbolism of yin and yang.
>>23946176Just sayin', but it's very Evangalion to have the mythology all messed up. If you plan on sticking to your guns though, more power to ya.In that case, what is Nuwa going to create? I thought 'monsters' because I figured she's experimenting with creating the Ultimate Life Form, in other words, the thing that comes after Humanity if she wins. Obviously, this Ultimate Life Form would be able to kick the shit out of anything P'an Ku could put together, so there's her goal in all of this.Maybe the Chinese mythos' aren't fully awakened yet? They're split somehow, or the parts that are currently interacting with the world are only partially awake and are trying to fully 'awaken.' Nerv's job is to make sure that shit don't happen, 'cuz it means the end of the world either way. Nuwa has cultists trying to wake her up so that they can become Perfect, ala Instrumentality Project, and then there are big fuckoff monsters wandering around trying to wake up P'an Ku in order to wake his lazy ass up and finish the job. Both factions have just noticed humanity as a 'faction' in all this, and are currently experimenting with your Master/Slave dichotomy on their asses. It's up to the players to make sure that they're not the slaves in this situation; By proving to Nuwa that they deserve to exist, by proving to P'an Ku that they can live in harmony if only he'd help rather than hinder. Or by just blowing the fuck out of everything, as player characters are like to do.
>>23946257You could tie yin/yang to master/slave. Or maybe Master/slave is some kind of messed up yin/yang? Natural imbalance in the system?Boy, there's a lot of fun to be had with this.
>>23946304That sounds like the direction things will probably go. Maybe Taiji is the group trying to take humanity down the harmonious path while some cult is trying to take humanity to the next level. Each is vying for Nuwa or P'an Ku.tying Nuwa/P'an Ku into the master/slave relationship sounds interesting. I can see how they would be revealed as masters, but showing them as slaves would be difficult. And later (if the players got into the position and got through the right hurdles) showing them as equals to humanity would be really interesting.
>>23946434Perhaps it's the Evas that make humanity their Equal? If the players do well, then Evas are the powerhouses that make the Gods their slaves? It's the thing that makes both sides re-evaluate their place in the relationship.Anyways, i've gtg so good luck figuring out the rest of your game.
>>23946317Perhaps the Master/Slave relationship is a breach in the harmony of yin and yang created by humanity. This has pissed off Nuwa and P'an Ku and the only way the players can peacefully resolve the matter is by going through the Thesis, Anti thesis, and achieving synthesis, showing Nuwa and P'an Ku that humanity can be harmonious?
>>23946473Wouldn't the master/slave dialectic apply to the Evangelion/pilot relationship? The Evas could be seen as the slaves of the pilots, having to follow their commands and obeying their impulses. But on the other hand, the pilots are dependent on the Evas to get anything done. It's a great illustration.
>>23946511>>23946497>>23946473These all could be added. Regarding the Evas I could have moments where the Eva is resisting the pilots command but does them anyway, essentially characterize the pilot as the masters. Then later have the Evas completely resist the pilot actions and then show the pilots as dependent on the Evas because they are useless without them. Regarding the human/P'anku/Nuwa relationship. how could I start to show the roles as master and slave and then show those roles as reversed. Would I then trust the players to reach synthesis and achieve equality or would I have to guide them into it, if so how?
>>23946748>rei with a kitchen knifesorry, but i just can't trust a mass produced not quite human girl in the kitchen
>>23946780That is fucking terrifying.
>>23946748Well the series has mentors, Misato and Kaji, who attempt to guide the pilots to the right ends, however flawed their attempts.Maybe have someone on base talk to the pilots about the philosophy in an abstract way. Or better yet in a separate setting entirely. Maybe at school they have a calm good natured teacher who talks about this kind of thing, but using real world situations.
>>23947288The teacher idea is good. I think an estranged old teacher who's speech is cryptic, like Laozi the founder of Taoism, would be great.
Any updates on V3? The closed beta started a few months ago right?
>>23949926It's coming out right after Valve releases Episode 3
>>23949958episode 3 of what and when is that coming out
>>23950104all i know of valve is portal
>>23950057What.But seriously. Any updates from BMJ?
>>23950130Holy shit. Play youself some Half Life before it's too late.
>>23950873Man, I really liked that angel.
OP I'd also take a look at AdEva borderline. It's a form of 2.5 with a number of changes. I've run both and found that borderline is a lot easier to modify. Especially if you want to do anything outside of a strict retelling of the series.
>>23954909I'd also not bother with the IRC channels for help, ether of them.
>>23961507I've found them, and seen them with others, to be largely unhelpful if you want to do anything different to how eva was shown in the series. Modifying the game like this you're more likely to get called an idiot than get helpful advice.
>>23946748>These all could be added. Regarding the Evas I could have moments where the Eva is resisting the pilots command but does them anyway, essentially characterize the pilot as the masters. Then later have the Evas completely resist the pilot actions and then show the pilots as dependent on the Evas because they are useless without them.Maybe you could tie berserk mode into this somehow.
How would I do a campaign where nobody pilots Evas?I mean, there are still angels, but everyone would be in smaller, lighter, specialized, human-built 'mechs. Think an Urbanmech to the Eva's Atlas. Is Ad Eva still the best way to do this?
>>23961536>Play Dark Heresy >"Let's make the Imperium a happy place!"You're that kind of faggot aren't you.
My dream for a AdEva campaign does not necessarily includes the piloting of a Eva. It'd Take place in the rebuild canon and be set during the 15 years between 2.0 and 3.0 in which the world is now even more desperate and hopeless then before. Japan is more or less evacuated. Most of the population have retreated to the citys still in protection of the UN. The UN however, are slowly loosing control as resources are now more scarce then ever and martial law is commonplace. Selee has begun to slowly relocate to a Luner Base. With the UN as weak as they've ever been, the Liberated Nations (from the AdEva fluff) have risen in almost equal power in their recruitment of rapidly Seceding UN nations Desperate for help. The basic plot would be the players exploring this Post-near impact, post-NERV world and getting involved with the UN/LN war that has erupted, With angels being a uncommon threat, EVAs being late story material and the forming of Will-E a possible plot point. Ideas?
I played in an AdEva game over a year ago, and kind of another one but it died. So I've played in this system before.Are there any games looking for players? I need to get my bio-mecha fill.
>>23947520At the start of the game, how much do I let the players know about the theme? Do they just have to figure it out as the game progresses or do I let them know a little at the start.
>>23965542Are you still going with the prison idea? Have the prison plastered in slogans and propaganda broadcasts that repeat Hegelian Dialectic-style messages. If you have a training sequence, introduce a Taoist drill sergeant.
>>23965542Both of those are awesome. Thank you anon.
I think it would make more sense to have the JADE system be made of two super-computers instead of the Magi's three, yin and yang symbolism and all. What should the two be called?
>>23966988Kane and Able. Just to fuck with them.
>>23966988No, have 3 computers, named after the 3 Pure Ones.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Pure_Ones
>>23964386Really no. Don't get me wrong AdEva, both the original and borderline, are great. But the community is... lacking.In essence, suggesting that an eva pilot should do anything beyond cry and be useless means you're a faggot and should get out apparently. God forbid you'd like pilots to be able to actually be good at what they do, i.e. like every pilot in the series save shinji.
>>23968771...but the people in Borderline don't do that, really. Hell, I've got the pointman practically being Kaji while the berserker is an utter rapist at PScale as well as Escale in my game.
>>23968901Oh for sure the Borderline guys are much better, it's something I've observed a lot mostly from the original AdEva people.The crux of it is that v2.5 is very much desined to do the series and little else. If you want to play a game where the pilots can't win, are shit at everything and can't find anything out then v2.5 is it. vBorderline is very much playing with the setting and the core ideas behind eva, so they are a lot more open to different ideas.
>>23964306Do you mean like a Toku/Guyver AdEva? That has been done.Smaller/lighter is a matter of distinguishing features. >>23968999This also depends on the individual players. vB has some assholes, but #AdeptusEvangelion is very clique-ish with mods who will be EPIC WIN TROLLs towards you but kickban you if you say something they don't like.
>>23974281Is that some Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win!: The Movie?
When is AdEva 3.0 coming out? I don't want to have to buy Dark Heresy to play.
>>23976127Have we even had any updates on how 3.0 is progressing from BMJ?
>>23968771Both communities can be terrible in their own right.
>>23976127Really? I can't believe people like you exist on /tg/.If you're too poor/lazy to buy a PDF on DrivethruRPG.com, then just pirate it.
>>23976127Just dowload the pdf.
>>23977214Oh shut up. It was a simple question which you could have answered without the higher-than-thou preface.I only wanted to know because if they're planning on building a custom system from the ground up, I don't want to get invested in DH only to switch over to what they might arguably consider is more balanced since they've spent more time on 3.0 than 1 and 2 it seems.Thanks for the answer anyway.
>>23977413>>higher-than-thou>>just pirate it or buy it>>SH-SHUT UP, BAKA! Well newfriend, let me tell you about this special place on 4chan. It's called >>>/rs/
>>23977413"Fast" is not a word generally associated with the AdEva dev team. We might see a public beta of v3.0 in 2014 if we are lucky.
>>23977449>higher-than-thou>Really? I can't believe people like you exist on /tg/.The preface usually comes at the beginning, not the end, in case you didn't know. That's what I meant, by the way. Like I said, you could have just said that instead. Or you could have just posted the link to >>>/rs/ anyway. That said, I had forgotten all about /rs/, so I will offer my thanks for that. Unfortunately, like I said, if they plan on creating a whole new system, I'm not sure I would want my friends and I to learn the old DH way.>>23977547I can see that, judging from the dates of releases, but I'm hoping that this means a much more balanced and playable game in the end and I am certainly looking forward to it. I was just wondering if we would get a status update or two considering the relative silence so far.
>>23978148You only need to know the DH system. It's not that hard to learn really.
>>23978456I've heard AdEva's rules are broken in some areas, where specifically?
>>23980862Depend the version; in V2, every class not Pointman or Skirmisher sucked.
>>23964386>implying that there's anything wrong with brutally twisting settings into comic mockeries of their former selves
>>23982738What about 2.5 or Borderline?
>>23982898VB does a better job at making each class useful, but Neo Spartans are rather HAX as a background.
>>23984959I mean, +5 to three good stats and -5 to the most useless stat and excellent traits make them rather broken.
>>23985012Which is why we're buffing Manufactured and Survivor actually, and why Prodigy's getting a very nice new trait to replace the literally useless Unindoctrinated.
AdEva games tend to be pretty diverse IMO. Some want to be ridiculously grimdark where everyone in NERV is Stalin-Hitler, others run it as a super robot game
>The AT Tactician is better than you at your job>Without being spec'd for it
>>23982801My face after reading this.
>>23989076Which job is that?
>>23989076in fairness, the AT Tactician is fucking godly when they get rolling
>>23989215But wait, there's more!
>>23989767I don't know what it is exactly about Eva turned into full-on Mazinger A MAN MUST NEVER TURN HIS BACK ON THE ENEMY hot-bloodedness that makes me enjoy it so much, but goddamn if I don't love it.
>>23989847Evangelion is something that really hinges on the players and the GM. Your GM can make or break a game.And if you get lucky, you get a godlike GM. Never let go of that fucker if that ever happens.
>>23991652>Kain.jpgKANE.IN THE NAME OF KANE!KANE LIVES IN DEATH!
>>23992021It was for the biblical reference, though. For the Evangelion touch, eh?
>>23992140Kane fits... surprisingly well into Eva.
>>23992156>Kane is now your next SEELE head
>>23989767That man has the face of victory.
>>23992189Kane as NERV head would also be interesting.
>>23992234Isn't Gendo just a more subtle version of Kane?Well, I mean, Kane is probably half-angel or something. But still.
>>23992234>>23992189>>23992165Third Impact victory dance
>>23992234Tiberium AdEva? That...might be an interesting concept...
>dat feel when neither dev group will ever treat the OD as a full career instead of being reliant on GM fiat
>>23946497Is this a good idea? Is making it possible to avert third impact by going through the thesis, antithesis, and synthesis make the game too easy?
Thread has been archived on suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com Please upvote it
If you're including Nuwa wouldn't it better to include her husband/brother FuXi in some shape or form?
>>23995731He could probably be Tabbaris.
>>23995018>trying to reason>with giant monstersWhile it should be possible to "win" that way, if you're making the process easy, you're doing it wrong.
>>23996074Reasoning with P'an ku that humanity can be tranquil seems the hardest. Even if they go through the dialectic. Nuwa seems easier. They just have to show that humanity can be as good as whatever she intended to make. That's what I'm worried is too easy.
Dead thread generalI'm planning on starting up a 2.5 campaign soon, and have already genned up the nine angels I want to use.I'm using the Angel gen in 2.5, and here's the 9th angel at CR:0 (so before optimisation).It'll be the final angel fight, and penultimate combat scene (assuming it doesn't TPK and Third Impact) so I want it to be challenging.Metatron - Angel of ThoughtMessenger Angel (HARD)Guiding AngelHumanoid (Winged) (+10 WS, +20 LS) (Multidimensional, Metallic Skin)Miniscule (-30 to hit, -5 wounds)Location %hit Wounds AP Fear rating (1)Head 01-10 1 7 Acrobatics, Dodge, Climb ProficientRight Arm 11-20 4 3 Deflection, Accelerated Territory, Kinetic Wave,Left Arm 21-30 4 3 Spatial Funnel, Inertia, Power Surge, OversynchCore 31-40 7 7 50 Dam Angelic SensesBody 41-70 7 7Right Leg 71-80 4 3Left Leg 81-90 4 3Wings 91-00 7 3WS BS S T Ag Int Per WP Fel LS50 60 30 30 40 30 50 50 10 230Melee Attack (Arm Ram)1d10+6 Damage Impact 2 Penetration Hallucinogen - Affected pilot gains 1d5 Insanity, must test WP or suffer effects of Hallucinogenic Grenade (p.137 DH Core)Ranged Attack (Rapid Fire)1d10 Damage S/5/10 120 Dam E 10 Penetration Rapid Fire: Automatically confirms Righteous Furies Infect - Pilot loses 1d10 Ego, if this attack defeats the EVA or reduces the Pilot's Ego to 0, the EVA comes under the Angel's control until the Angel is destroyed.Angel - 1 Fate point, may burn to regen 1d10+3 WoundsHeavenly - ATP is not lowered by using AT powers, but AT powers cannot be augmented using more ATP than current ATS.Superior Action - May perform Full Actions as Half Actions, may perform one Half Action as a Reaction Action per turn. May use multiple attacks per turn, provided it has multiple weapons to use.Celerity - Roll Initiative twice, the Angel has two turns per combat round.Flyer - As in DH Core, pg. 216.5 rerolls per combat, +20 to tests, Celerity, TB doubled
>>23997998Assuming they're high (9000~ish EXP) Rank 5 Pilots by then (they should be) and that there's 3-4 Pilots and an OD, that gives Metatron +50-to-60 LS and +15-to-18 wounds per location, with 5-6 CR to spend optimising.What do people think would be good buys?Spending 1 CR on The Specialist: [Quantum Encroachment] seems like a given, both to stay in keeping with it's nature of targetting the Ego Barrier and also because... Well, it's a mini-Anti A.T. Field. If the final Angel fight isn't the time to throw that at the party, I don't know when is.But after that it gets a lot more malleable.Rapid Shooter? Godly?Dual Field?Multitasker: [Guardian] for more survivability, or [Ruling] for a handful of Meta-mooks as backup?Your thoughts?I'm want to pull out all the stops here, make it have a serious risk of defeat.Preferably without a Keter-scale asspulled curbstomp.Almost impossible. Almost.Elegan/tg/entlmen, Ca/tg/irls, please, lend me your wisdom.Sorry for wall o' text...
>>23997998Wow that statblock is badly formatted.I shouldn't have pasted straight from notepad.Sorry.
>>23968771Did you just suggest that Rei and Asuka are stable, happy people?
>>23998793Good at what they do, not stable, happy people.
>>23998860But Rei is just kind of a mediocre pilot. Dependable, but nothing stellar.
>>23999874Watch the show; surprisingly enough, SHINJI is the one that get shit done most of the time, not even counting Berserk. Either that or it's a team effort.
>>23998793Rei is pretty stable.
>>24000508As far as it goes, yeah. He's the one I'd most want on my team. Well, I'd MOST want someone like VSD. But out of the Eva cast, Shinji definitely strikes the best balance between unstable and useful.
Step aside folks, most mindfuck setting coming through.http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Future_Space_Hebrews_and_Christ_Spaceships
>>24000979That fucking thread man...http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/23757275/
Well, since I'm never able to find a group to play this with, I'm thinking I might have a go a GMing it.Which version of the rulebook is the least broken?
>>24001809You really haven't seen that before?
>>24001836To his credit, the thread itself is what, two or three weeks old now?
>>23993436>>23992344>>23992250>>23992234>>23992189>>23992165>>23992156>>23992021>>23991652Gentlemen . . . I have to ask, has anyone here ever dared to field a Tiberium Wars/ADEVA game?If so - how the fuck did it go? I am royally fucking intruiged as to how we could make the two universes mesh together.
>>24002068If you're playing it straight, it's remarkable easy to mesh the two: 3rd impact brought tib, angels are somehow related, Kane and Nod are out in the open and doing their shit, and are secretly in allegiance with SEELE, NERV is an arm of GDI tasked with angel-killing...Let's see, Nod would still be against the angels, looking at how they reacted to the Scrin. CABAL and the MAGI are probably related somehow. Mutants probably just do their thing off by themselves. The only question is; do you include the Scrin?
>>24002227Easy enough. Scrin ARE the Angels.
>>240022272nd impact brought tib, Scrin replaced with Angels
>>24002256Oh, yeah.Oops.Maybe have Tib do something AT-field related as well. Maybe the mutations are caused by that?
>>24002227Putting it like that then yeah - they do mesh quite nicely together - Tiberium making for an added extra to world flavor (read utterly fucked up shit) with the rising of sea levels and messed up climate change from 3rd impact. The main issue I can see is NOD being out in the open - I would be more inclined to run the universe as you put it above, but with NOD in secret until the scrin arrived (a form of ADAM born life from another world, brought to Earth by a signal created by second impact 15 years ago? - more like Lillith in form but with ADAM functionality?) and no GDI - only the UN and then GDI is created in reaction to the Scrin arriving and NOD emerging into the open - thus causing a mid-campaign power rift between the existing NERV under former UN control - now under new masters in the GDI.After this - Tiberium mutated Angels? Or Angels born from Tiberium? How many levels of further fucked up should we predict?
>>24002296by 3rd impact I meant 2nd impact - but yeah . . . you know what I meant
>>24002227Scrin are the angels. Or rather, the angels are terraforming devices or invasion vanguard of the Scrin.Also, both Nod and SEELE get their information from the Dead Sea Scrolls in their respective settings, so it's obvious they can be combined. Nod would either be an offshoot of SEELE, a renegade cult that fights against the "mainstream" of SEELE's plan, or the "core" of SEELE. Probably both GDI and Nod would have Evangelions, and Eva units would partake in combat operations and battles between GDI and Nod forces.Also, geofront under Sarajevo. And the GDI NERV HQ would be an orbital base that drops the GDI Evas from orbit.
>>24002311>Orbital Eva drop
How well would Pacific Rim mesh with AdEva?
>>24001487Go with 2.5. It is the most recent of the official releases, and actually had a public Beta so we know it has been tested.I think the worst thing against it is that there are points where they made changes but didn't go far enough. Like, they recognized that there was a problem there, and did their best to patch it, but the issue isn't actually fixed. Just a little better than it was before.They had already announced that V3 was a thing at the time, so I guess there were some problems that they just couldn't figure out how to fix while the system was still DH.High hopes for V3.
>>24002374it was supposed to be an evangelion movie
>>24002374In terms of plot? Pretty much perfectly. The problem is the mecha.Pacific Rim has integrated weapons, but no AT Fields. Evangelion has AT Fields (which cant be removed without breaking literally everything in the game) and exclusively handheld weapons.If you are willing to make those two concessions? It will go fine. You can probably fake the weapons as being built in, but the AT Field thing is a must have, even if you call it something else.
>>24002311A VARIATION UPON THIS THEME.The Scrin have thier own EVAS, and are Lillith based life from another world - but much like the conflict between ADAM and LILLITH on this world - if a world has two LILLITH or two ADAM based lifeforms on it - they will also fight for dominance.The Scrin have been moving from world to world, using advanced tiberium based technology to defeat ADAM based lifeforms and expand for millenia - here on Earth they run into both ADAM and LILLITH based lifeforms in open warfare - but still have to dominate over both.SCRIN EVA'S GENTLEMEN, ALONG WITH GDI EVAS AND NOD EVAS.WHERE IS YOUR FUCKING GOD NOW.
All you ever need for an AdEva mythos:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPwI can't find the original thread where this was posted. If someone could link that, it'd be awesome.
>>24002517Well, the Evangelion units look the way they do because they're covered in mechanical restraints and have been essentially lobotomized so that they can be controlled by a pilot, so it begs the question of what an unrestrained, fully developed Eva would be like. And if it would look any different from an Angel.
>>24002374If you don't want to include AT fields/powers in any way or form you'll have a tough time since the ruleset makes them an integral part of the game. But if you're willing to refluff them in some way you can make it work easy. Or alternately I guess you could play a game where everyone is a Jet Alone pilot...
>>24002311The way I see it- Both Nod and GDI would be against the Angels, and both would see how they could not stand against the Angel threat without the other. So you would have a kind of cold war situation going on, with both Nod and GDI's take on Evas fighting together while the two powers try to not break the truce, but gain power anyways.Plus, you could do so much fun shit with the Evas themselves. Nod could get flamethrowers, stealth, and have a better affinity with Tiberium, while GDI would get things like integrated sonic weapons, railguns, and just plain stronker Evas.
>>24002311>>24002517I don't think trying to be 1:1 faithful to all the nuances in each franchise is going to result in something coherent; some things should be cut and melded. Nod should be the secret hand behind SEELE. NERV is replaced wholesale with GDI, an arm of the UN that is tasked with fighting the Scrin Angels and that deploys EVAs (the mecha, not the Electronic Video Agent) in mankind's defence. Things come to a head when it's revealed that NOD's ideas of what constitutes a better future for humanity clash with GDI's ideals.
>>24002608Then you have the classic SEELE takeover scenario, NOD deploys MP Evas built in secret, along with commando teams, to storm and take control of GDI HQ, etc. etc.Also change MAGI to CABAL and you're set.
>>24002601I think Nod and GDI would have different objectives in regards to the Angels. While GDI wants to wipe them out, Nod wants to reverse engineer their technology. I suppose they'd be the ones to research the S2 Engine and install it. I also want to see an Ion Cannon attack on an angel. Hell, imagine an Eva wielding an Ion Cannon satellite like an improvised positron rifle against an angel.
>>24002671Use Ion Cannons instead of N2 mines.
>>24002728"...Are you picking this up? Good. Commander, this is General Shepard. Welcome to the Global Defense Initiative. *bwop*Fifteen hours ago, a general alert was issued in the Tiber River region in Italy - the site of the Second Impact. It appears the entities responsible for the tiberium infestation currently plaguing the Earth have struck once again."*bwop*"As you can see from this recon satellite footage, this huge... walker thing was wreaking havoc on our conventional forces. First and Fifth Divisions have been almost completely wiped out without even putting a dent in the thing's armor. We managed to bring 5 Ion Cannon satellites online and from the looks of it, the concentrated barrage managed to melt away its outer armor. But the science boys are telling me it's regenerating as we speak, so we don't have much time.""I'm authorising you to activate project Evangelion. I know you have reservations about putting kids - let's not kid ourselves, they're barely in their teens - in the line of fire. But it seems our worst fears have come to pass, and the Children truly are our last, best hope. I'm giving you full operations director status. The Evangelions and their pilots are yours to command.""Godspeed, Commander, and may God have mercy on us all. Shepard out."*cue Act on Instinct*
>>24002444Sounds good. What were those points that they needed to go further in? I could probably just houserule it.
>>24003078>>24002444>>24001487Additionally, any Australians potentially interested in an online AdEva game, throw me an email
>>24002914>*cue Act on Instinct*It turns out I don't have a saved copy of the appropriate reaction image to express my feelings. So if anyone has that manga page of the businessman with an obvious boner please post it for me.
>>24003251Not what you're looking for, but will this do?
>>24003251This boner is perfectly normal and not weird at all.Also, what about the other 'mechs that both sides have? You know, the Jugg and Avatar.
>>24002914There has to be an Evangelion/E.V.A. joke in here somewhere.
Can I just point out how goddamn sexy Evas are?Admittedly, I am a BTech fan, so my tastes in mechs are a bit nonstandard, but damn. Look at that.
>>24003877I'm not a Battletech fan, and I love Evas. Mainly because they have the scale of a giant mech, but are humanoid enough to almost look like power armor.
So, what are the main differences between V2.5 and Borderline?
>>24003877The best part of AdEva is that sometimes you get groups with artists, and that means sexy new Eva designs
>>24003950For me, it's the effeciency of design. People make fun of the "angry geometry", but you have to admit, it's pretty good at doing what it's supposed to. Pretty much anything in BT can be rendered in a few broad strokes and be easily identifiable. Pic related.Evas have that same thing going on. They lack the "mound of random shit" that seems to plague modern jap designs.
>>24004058>"angry geometry"I've never heard of this phrase before. Mind explainign?
>>24003967Creators, level of completeness, and tone.2.5 is made by BMJ and his devs, is fully released for better or for worse, and focuses enough on serving the needs of the core setting that it is willing to exclude options that are mechanically viable but dont mesh well with how the normal game is supposed to play out. Lots of advice and support for GMs, some would argue too much.Borderline is made by a splitoff faction, lacks Angel Generation as of the last time I checked, and considers more options to always be a better thing. It gets accused of having a lot of "toys", but whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is up to you.I think that is about as much detail as anyone can go into without delving into biased information or gritty specifics.The thing to remember, though, is that they are much more similar than they are different. One is basically just a homebrew of the other, so while the details change the overall game is basically the same.
>>24004084A lot of BT designs utilize basic polygonal shapes, such as cylinders, cubes, hexagons, etc... and sometimes end up being overly-simple. Not to mention the silly designs.
>>24004096I have noticed that they are more similar than they are different.What do you mean about tone though? Also, I'm perfectly happy to hear your personal bias
>>24004213V2.5 can be a bit "If you are doing things differently you are wrong" and "Slap the players in the face if they do something you didn't want them to and remind them you are god!", which isn't always how some people handle GMing. That being said, otherwise their GMing advice is good. Not to mention, just as valid for use for VB, since it's just that; GMing advice.
>>24003967Borderline doesn't have an insanely ugly rulebook.For that matter, am I an awful person for preferring borderline simply because the 2.5 rulebook is ugly as sin?
>>24004455I liked the 2.5 rulebook...
>>23946748I just had an Idea. What if I use dreams as well? Like the Evas try to kill the pilots to show themselves as masters and pilots as slaves?
>>24004477It's got very poor art quality control and consistancy. Furthermore, the resolution of half the assets is so fucking off.
>>24004455>2.5 rulebook is ugly as sin?You've got a strange taste in... I guess formatting?
>>24004450I don't think that is true. 2.5 just recognizes that the players of RPGs are used to being murderhobos, but as Eva pilots they are children firmly under the thumb of the most powerful organization in the world. They have a lot less agency than the usual player character in games, and that can take some getting used to.
>>24004455...you like the formatting I did for Borderline...?I tried the best I could. Mind you, once we get Angelgen out, we're planning on making it a bit prettier and having GM advice and whatnot ourselves, but I've been scouring the rulebook to make sure it looks good enough, and that everything is written and formatted consistently (and as clearly as possible)
>>24004791Oh, so you're one of the Borderline devs. I suppose you could answer the question about what the key differences were then.Also, I honestly like that it's just simple text without any shitty art. If you do plan on including art in the next version, I would suggest you source it all from one place. So, either just use the TV show, the movies or your own artist.
>>24003877I love me some Evas.
>>24004955I'm still not happy that they gave Unit 02 the front of the Space Battleship Yamato for a forehead in Rebuild.I thought it looked fine without it. But I guess they needed an excuse to sell movie versions of the Eva.
>>24004506I love the 2.5 rulebook.
>>24005030I always thought that the very last page of the 2.5 players guide was kind of cute.Never was sure whether that was a reference to V3 or to the fact that 2.5 was in two books. Still nice.
I also really like any 'mech that has any sort of DNI system. Even if you die in 10 years from using it.
>>24005181It really is the best control system for this sort of thing. The nest best thing is G-Gundam style mobile trace. But that has its limitations if the pilot is injured or something.
>>24005203Eh, I still think Neurohelmets are the second best.
>>24005203G-Gundam's system is hilariously awful because it leaves the pilot completely exposed in the event of` any kind of destabilization.
>>24005240I sort of counted neurohelmets as part of the same style of control as Eva: Mind/Machine Interface.After that is forms of motion capture based on the pilots body.After that... you pretty much have to rely on the computer to do most of the piloting for you. All you do is make the high-level descisions, it follows your orders for you. Otherwise it is like a guy trying to drive, arm, aim and fire a tank by himself. It can be done, but its slow.
>>24005429They seem different enough to me. Especially how they were described to work in the TechManual.
WHat's an EVA look like without all the armour on?
>>24005643That's not 01, right?
>>24005643How does it>eat>breathe>shit
>>24005798An Eva has the seed of life. It doest need to do any of those things.
>>24005798>And other science facts!>Just keep telling yourself it's just a show>So your really should relax!Anyway though, given how hooked up Evas tend to be even docked, wouldn't surprise me if a few of them are catheters for food input and waste extraction. They also likely breath similar to insects... somehow.
>>24005850And its seed of life has a clitoris.
more Evas, dammit.
>>24005643This isn't right. They all clearly have mouths.
>>24006063Could be 00.
>>24006037C-can I b-be an Eva?I got the s-shoulder...The shoulder things.
>>24006202Actually pig disgusting. >>24006556 is infinitely superior in every way.
>>24004847Sorry. Was GMing.A lot of it has to do with what we (the borderline devs) think of as being good game design. We've been trying very hard to make each career variable, with multiple ways of playing them. We've been trying to make the various talents as equally strong as we can, so that (hopefully) nothing's an actual BAD choice. We made sure to crunch numbers for our weapons and whatnot, to make sure things were balanced. And yeah, we're fond of options. Fond of giving players a choice in what they take. We also have been damn careful to remove as many 'trap' things as possible, like Impetuous - a lot of new players don't understand just how bad something like that can be. And after the split, 2.5 added something even worse in that regards, the Unstable drawback - unless you basically don't get defeated ever, that is going to likely drop you into barely-able-to-pilot territory.As well, we haven't shied away from including things like the Mastema or things from Rebuild, like Inverse Mode, the Rail Crossbow, and whatnot. I realize that, in the end, to an outside observer they look very similar, but we did what we thought made for a better game. It's an option. And while we don't have Angelgen yet, we're going too...eventually. Combination of making a pointbuy Angelgen that gives advice on how to use each thing you take plus RL stuff has kinda delayed it horribly. On the plus side, the extra time has made us more able to work out certain kinks that've been bothering us, changing a few rules around for better gameplay and adding a few new things entirely - we've got a few bits of it up on the Errata page you can find on the Borderline hub document
>>24006744Souns interesting. So, does that make the 1d4chan link the most up to date version?
>>24006776https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wX11RS2zRxTKV6lm16MBMOT6_0nSHcKUCFg7eSHQWRE/edit always has the latest version. And other helpful links.
>>24006776If it's Version 1.19 then yes. We're holding back 1.2 until we've got angelgen, so that it's the mechanically complete version.Eventually, we'll have 1.3 as the full fluff/etc version after 1.2 gets its kinks worked out. Yay Mass Production Edition!>>24006904 Yeah. That's the hub page. Everything for Borderline will always be there or linked through there.
>>24006946My version says 1.2 It doesn't have angelgen though.
>>23989286Name a job, the AT Tac can do it better than you can. Sharpshooting? Spatial Funnel can be buffed twice to give them more and better buffs and benefits per shot than Art of War would give a Neospartan. Defense? Short of a Berserker with specific talents charging you, an AT Tac becomes literally unbreakable if they go full defense. DPS? Unlike psychic powers in DH, you can use two separate offensive powers in the same turn as long as you have the ATP for them. That means you can quite easily throw out a Solenoid Bomb and Kinetic Manipulate a Dual Saw, for example, or more likely a Chain Glaive, to get two separate, powerful, ranged attacks.And unlike Skirmisher and Pointman, AT Tacs only scale up infinitely better as their SR fluxes upwards. On the other hand, the benefits from talents like Precision have solid limits. Version Borderline is still a better edition than 2.5 even if it is Caster Edition.
>>24007164>Sharpshooting? Spatial Funnel can be buffed twice to give them more and better buffs and benefits per shot than Art of War would give a Neospartan.And with their slow BS, slow WUP, and no other talents to boost ranged combat... Not to mention that you can simply throw said buff on someone who actually has other ranged combat bonuses,.>Defense? Short of a Berserker with specific talents charging you, an AT Tac becomes literally unbreakable if they go full defense.Actually sort of true, if they do nothing but sit and spend all their ATP on defense (and even then, they're nowhere near invincible.) Without doing that, they're nowhere near as hard to kill as a Pointman.>DPS? Unlike psychic powers in DH, you can use two separate offensive powers in the same turn as long as you have the ATP for them. That means you can quite easily throw out a Solenoid Bomb and Kinetic Manipulate a Dual Saw, for example, or more likely a Chain Glaive, to get two separate, powerful, ranged attacks.Berserker is swift attacking with that dual saw, while enjoying the benefits of Crushing Blow, Chainsaw Massacre, Heart of the Machine and Rend Asunder, all the while laughing at the ATT wasting his time trying to DPS when he could be actually useful to the party.
>>24007272>slow BS, slow WUP, no other ranged talentsThat doesn't really prevent anything. It's not hard to sink at least the second advance's worth of xp into BS, and you can easily get up to nine WUP without getting into the expensive stuff. As for the talents, they make very little difference considering you don't have to worry about the penalty for firing into melee, the penalty for firing into obscured areas, etc. The one particularly notable thing is no rapid reload, but a sharpshooter should have plenty of time to do that if the rest of the party is doing their job.What's more, the bonus damage and bonus pen from Spatial Funnel is about equal to the average of what a Skirmisher would get from precisions.>ATP conservationThis is true up until the AT Tac berserks as a Thaumaturge or oversynchs or both. Even if he can't devote enough ATP to a Barrier, a decent supply of cheap BUP (WHICH POINTMEN DON'T GET, DESPITE BEING THE SUPPOSED TANKS) means they can afford the nice, shiny, durability boosting upgrades without breaking their budget much at all.>BerserkersAh, yes, the OTHER class of merit. Berserkers actually do outdamage all of the other classes on average. Which is great because that's what they're supposed to do. They also outtank Pointmen thanks to their two revival talents and vastly superior supply of BUP and access to the buffed Unstoppable berserk mode.
>>24007272>actually be useful to the partySo AT Tacs are supposed to just sit back and make everyone else better? Because that's a terrible design scheme for a class.
>>24007487+2 or +3 damage/pen is equal to +1 damage per DoS plus +2 damage for Mighty Shot? Not including the WUP to have a lot more bonuses to hit/damage on their weapon of choice, and they're getting a lot more BS from the same amount of XP spent, plus ATT doesn't have Target Acquisition or any of the called shot enhancers...and that's not including the R5/6 stuff.
>>24007510Some people like winning as a team, not as a single person."Winning" in AdEVA is very hard, and even harder if you don't work as a team.
>>24004506>>24004455I have just flipped through the 2.5 GM book, which looks great. I wish they applied this art design to the main book.
>>24007600Your mistake is assuming that people think playing as someone who is objectively useless except when they're buffing someone else is fun.
>>24007487>As for the talents, they make very little difference considering you don't have to worry about the penalty for firing into melee, the penalty for firing into obscured areas, etc.So you're telling me that spatial funnel + accelerated funnel + guided shot is what... Better than Mighty Shot, Rapid Reload, fast WUP (+Commission), Fast BS (+Basic Training), Precision (+Finesse/Art of War), Target Acquisition, Twin Weapon Wielder, Deadeye, Marksman (and more)?I really don't think so.>This is true up until the AT Tac berserks as a Thaumaturge or oversynchs or both. Even if he can't devote enough ATP to a Barrier, a decent supply of cheap BUP (WHICH POINTMEN DON'T GET, DESPITE BEING THE SUPPOSED TANKS) means they can afford the nice, shiny, durability boosting upgrades without breaking their budget much at all.Thaumaturge doesn't boost your available ATP, it simply makes your auguments better. Never mind that thaumaturge actualy works against your action economy by forcing you to attack every round (and given that you can't use weapons while in thaumarge, this means you're likely attacking with an AT Power).>Ah, yes, the OTHER class of merit. Berserkers actually do outdamage all of the other classes on average. Which is great because that's what they're supposed to do. They also outtank Pointmen thanks to their two revival talents and vastly superior supply of BUP and access to the buffed Unstoppable berserk mode.The revival talents are kind of bullshit, I will actually agree with you on this. However you are heavily underrating how amazing a well set up pointman using Sacrifice is.>>24007510They manipulate the battlefield to create advantages for their team, counter their enemies, and protect their allies. It's far far more than just handing out simple 'buffs'. They're not supposed to do DPS. If you don't want to do that, don't play them.
>>24007615Your mistake is assuming that there aren't people who wouldn't like playing a class that works best in unison with the rest.United we stand, divided we fall, and all that jazz.
>>24007694lolwutIt's not working in unison to just stand around and give other people your AT powers with masteries so they can do all the hard work. It's just standing around watching other people do all the hard work.
In 2.5 at least, where Skirmishers are the sword, Pointmen the Shield, and Berserkers the handgrenade, ATT's are a toolbox. Certainly, you can kill someone by hitting them in the head with a toolbox, but that isn't really optimal if you have any of those other things to use instead. You could also use them to maintain the other weapons, or say, unlock a door preventing you from hitting the dude inside with your sword. Or say, set up a tripwire on your handgrenade.
>>24007730>ATT's are a toolbox.A toolbox full of lasers.
>>24002296One thought that was bounced around about ADAM based life is that unlike us, they are adapted to their purpose. they don't use tools, they simply are the tools. They manipulate particles by organs. Think 'nids except metaphysics and each is fully aware that is part of the greater scheme. That each is a fragment of a godlike entity made by even more godlike entities.
>>24007928>seeking to understand the mysteries of the FAR
How much of the DH rulebook is needed? would someone who has played DH, but doesn't own the rulebook be fine?
>>24007694>United we stand>EvangelionYou're gonna have a rough time.
>>24007980If you just have a pdf you should be fine. You'll need to read the "Playing the Game" chapter VERY diligently though because thats the only chapter you need to know the contents of DURING SESSIONS in order to play. Otherwise, you just need to reference Skills and Talents while making a character or spending XP, and maybe dip into the Game Master and Antagonists sections if they become relevant (Which they probably won't, its the GMs job to deal with that stuff)
>>24007663>>24007581>all that stupidLet me go into depth, though I didn't really want to.Let's take a Rank 5 Skirmisher and a Rank 5 AT Tactician. Let's assume, for the sake of ease, that the Skirmisher has BS 65 and the ATT has BS 55. Now, Skirmishers get WUPs by the truckload, and at that rank you can have about 18 WUPs (including the beginning three) for relatively cheap. However, an ATT can have 9 or 10 WUP (including the beginning 3) without overextending themselves at all xp wise. So, the Skirmisher (if fully specialized as a shooter and not a melee dude) has four Precisions, Finesse, Rapid Reload, Mighty Shot, Commission, Deadeye Shot, Target Acquisition, and Marksman. An ATT (similarly specialized in shooting) would have Wipe Clean, Accelerated Funnel, Breaching Strike, and Guided Shot.For ease, we'll assume both take a Mas longrifle (massively underrated and underpriced weapon by all accounts), where the Skirmisher will fully upgrade the Mas Longrifle to be really shiny and stuff. The ATT will do the same for as much as he can afford. Since it's such a cheap weapon, it's easy to optimize the upgrades - Anti-Angel, Hot-Loaded, Digital Sights, and G-Type Uplink (both classes can afford more but the other upgrades have only tertiary uses).So, let's say they end up with even initiative through a fluke, simultaneously spread their AT fields to full strength on the first turn, then on the second turn, fire at each other simultaneously. The range is 30 dam, or well within short range for both of them.Continued in next post.
>>24008253The skirmisher half aims, adds the other half aim from precise and gets a Full Aim action, which means his total BS for the shot comes out to around 115. With a surprisingly average roll of 50, he scores an easy hit on the ATT. He is applying the Fast and the Brutal precisions to his attack. So the end profile for the attack is 3d10+9 Pen 4 Breach 6 (or 8 if he's a Neospartan with that one trait), with a -20 penalty to any Evasion rolls by the target. At the same time, the ATT casts Spatial Funnel (using all 9 ATP of his plus the additional point from solenoid organelles), takes the free half aim option from Guided Shot since he's not firing into melee nor is the target prone nor is the target visually obscured by any factors (the latter two convenient effects which skirmishers do not get). He also takes the additional free half aim from precise, and ends up with a full aim action. With all of this taken into consideration, he ends up with a BS of... 105. Still over 100. He amazingly rolls the same as the skirmisher, a straight 50! And so with all the effects taken into consideration, his attack profile is: 3d10+7 Pen 9 Breach 11 (or 13 if he's a Neospartan with that same trait), with a -20 penalty to any Evasion rolls made by the target.So both shoot each other, and due to the shared penalties to their dodge attempts they are both hit. The skirmisher's slightly higher average damage counts for a lot, but at the same time, the ATT's way higher penetration and Breach means that the ATT is by no means any less effective. If you want, you can replace Fast with Cleaving to boost the damage and pen on the skirmisher's profile even more, but that means making it much easier for the enemy to potentially avoid the attack. Finished in next post.
>>24008269Of course, I'm sure that this ideal situation is not to your liking and you'll come up with plenty of reasons as to why I'm actually wrong, and honestly, if you gave an ATT the same gun as a skirmie the ATT would perform on par with, if not generally superior to (since the ATT relies less on DoS than the skirmies does) the skirmisher. Reloading tends to not be an issue for sharpshooters who usually use Maser or Positron weapons that either cannot be reloaded or have enough ammo per clip to make reloading very uncommon and a non-issue in most fights. And on top of it all, the power of the ATT only increases as his ATS and ATP increase from whatever sources you want, Group Synch, saving some up from the previous round, and/or oversynching.
>>24008269Actually, looking back, I miscalculated the breach for the ATT, forgot to include the extra from DoS. The correct profile for him should be 3d10+7 Pen 9 Breach 13 (or 15 if he's a Neospartan with that same trait), with a -20 penalty to any Evasion rolls made by the target.
>>24008279Let me run an alternate scenario: one in which both pass the BS test to hit the target but score 0 extra degrees due to shoddy rolls on both sides and penalties from an Angel's effect on shooters. In this case, none of the precisions would come into effect, nor would Accurate, nor would Accelerated Funnel.If both shots are executed in the exact same manner as before, then the profiles would become:1d10+4 Pen 4 Breach 1 (or 3) for the skirmisherand 1d10+7 Pen 9 Breach 11 (or 13) for the ATT.This is where the real difference begins to appear. It's a very, very nasty imbalance.
>>24008269>The skirmisher half aims, adds the other half aim from preciseThis isn't how it works. You can't do that.>At the same time, the ATT casts Spatial Funnel (using all 9 ATP of his plus the additional point from solenoid organelles), takes the free half aim option from Guided ShotSo he has three half actions per round? Interesting.>the ATT's way higher penetration and BreachWeapon Expert. Cleaving Precision if the skirm really needs pen.>Of course, I'm sure that this ideal situation is not to your liking and you'll come up with plenty of reasons as to why I'm actually wrongSuch as the 18 WUP Skirmisher using a Mas Long Rifle instead of a fully tricked out H.E. Recoilless Rifle?Also your calculations are off. Skirmisher with a fully ticked out Mas Long, 5 dos Brutal and mighty shot is hitting for 3d10+10 Pen6.Never mind that the ATT has to spend two half actions, one to use funnel and one to fire, while the Skirmisher simply snaps off his shot as a half action, and has the other available to do whatever he wishes (such as keep moving with accelerated field up to make him harder to hit.)
>>24008414>can't work like thatYes it does.>three half actionsWhat? Do you even know what a free action is?>Weapon ExpertI included that in the Skirmisher's profile. Cleaving wouldn't help at all unless the skirmisher was using a positron weapon, which would only work in the ATT's favor.>weaponryIf you gave the ATT the same tricked out H.E. Recoilless, he'd do better with it than the Skirmisher, which is half the point.>wrong calcsYeah, you're right, both profiles are 1 point higher in damage. My bad. There is no difference in the damage gap between them which is only a difference of 2 in the most ideal situation.And the ATT can use Accelerated Power to spend a reaction instead of a half action to use Funnel, for the record. He can't use any powers or benefit from the spread, though.
>>24008486I'd like to amend that, the most ideal situation would have a difference of 5 damage between the Skirmisher and the ATT but that is assuming that the ATT is not using any abilities to increase his ATP which are easy to use.
>>24008414Don't forget that Spatial Funnel only adds 1 damage/pen for every 2 points of ATP past the initial 5. So that mas long rifle is at, at most, 3d10+5 even with everything else...unless he's using AT Booster, in which case he gets maybe 2 more points of both out of it and has to take another turn OR a bunch of Ego to do it.And that the ATT has to spend a LOT more to get his BS that high, and pays more for that weapon.And yeah, you can't combine a precise aim with a half aim action. That'd be taking the Half Aim action twice in a turn.
>>24008518If you spend a full action to aim, you get a full aim. Two half aim actions is equivalent to a full aim action. It's really that simple.
>>24008486>Guided Shot – Whenever you enhance an attack with the Restrict Shot or Spatial Funnel powers, that attack ignores the penalties for firing into melee, the target being Prone, or the target being in visually obscured by factors such as darkness or the Refraction A.T. Power. If none of these penalties apply, you may instead use a Half Action to give the attack the benefits of the Half Aim action.You may want to actually read the ability you're talking about, because it says nothing about a free action.>If you gave the ATT the same tricked out H.E. Recoilless, he'd do better with it than the Skirmisher, which is half the point.>ATT affording tricked out H.E. Recoilless RifleWhat kind of fantasy world are you living in?Also you've forgotten called shots.Also your damage profile for the ATT is off as well, it's only 3d10+7 Pen8.
>>24008566Look, you moron, if one guy does the same job but better, and the only thing holding him back from being superior to another class is his equipment, then that's awful game design. You might as well have the Skirmisher hand the Recoilless to the ATT so the ATT can work his magic while the Skirmisher does more productive things, like run in and spam Multi Attacks.
>>24008594>You might as well have the Skirmisher hand the Recoilless to the ATT so the ATT can work his magic while the Skirmisher does more productive things, like run in and spam Multi Attacks.>equipment not being a valid part of the class>not having the ATT use spatial funnel on the skirmisher to get the benefits of bothHerpy derpy doo.
>>24008566Wow, so you're basically saying that you gave the ATTs a gimped power enhancement that doesn't actually benefit them in any way. Why in god's name would you spend a half action after spending a half action when you don't carry the benefits of the Spatial Funnel over to the next turn?
>>24008611>assuming ATTs exist in a vacumn where all they do is solo angels
>>24008605That's really stupid game design. Give the skirmisher the Spatial Funnel masteries and give the ATT something better to do with his time. Seriously.
>>24008611You can, if you use it on someone else.
>>24008621It's a clunky way to come sort of near the Skirmisher's power (requiring extra actions and a 9 ATP power), where you can combine both of them if you really wish for one good shot. I'm not seeing the problem.
>>24006680What about the most recent iteration?
>>24008548I really hate having to namefag here, buuuut...No. That's not how it works. Even if you COULD half aim twice, you just took an action that isn't an attack...so you lose the first half aim. It doesn't turn into a full aim. There is nothing saying that two half aims turn into a full aim.As well..how are you all getting +7 for the ATT?1d10+1 base, +2 for Anti-Angel, +2 for augmenting the Funnel to 9. That's +5.Meanwhile, the skirm has 1d10+1 base, +2 for Anti Angel, +2 for Mighty Shot, and +0-5 for Brutal and/or +0-3 for Cleaving.As well, you're using a Half Action for Spatial Funnel, a Half Action for guided shot's half aim, and a Half Action to attack.And with Quickened Power...do I even need to say how dangerous using your reaction for this is? If we're doing that, then you should then figure in the Skirmisher using HIS reaction to do something, which he uh...can, due to having spent a lot less XP on this stuff. Like quickdrawing a piston to use with Hair Trigger, or using one of the various wing things.
>>24008646You are both not allowing Skirmishers to be at the highest potential on their own which is pretty gay and then simultaneously making it so that the ATT has to spend more or less a whole turn doing nothing but buffing the skirmisher to get one really nice shot. On top of that, the ATT has to be within 40 dam of the Skirmisher who is sharpshooting to gift him the enhancement, which defeats the purpose of sniping unless the ATT really does use those abilities on himself!
>>24008627Shit, I don't know. I'm not a dev, I can't guess what they were thinking. I just roll with it.
>>24008682Don't forget called shots, which the r5 skirm can make at no penalty, and the ATT must take -20 to do.
What the fuck is this optimization shitwheres my crying children at
>>24008691>You are both not allowing Skirmishers to be at the highest potential on their own which is pretty gayNo one is at their highest potential on their own. This is a game that is based on teamwork. You're 'pretty gay'.
>>24008693The idea was being able to benefit your allies some if that is what you wanted to do, yes. Next version's switching it to being a Markerlight equivalent to be a bit clearer, among other things. The main use is for the penalty ignoring - the bonus to hit is supposed to be a little side benefit, not a major part of the talent.
>>24008769Teamwork =/= disallowing full potential for certain classes.
>>24008682Okay, whatever, any sane GM would use common sense and allow for doubled up half aims to equal full aims, but I guess I'm not talking to a sane person here.Well, that mostly favors ATTs anyhow, since >>24008412still favors ATTs if you include the corrected profiles.
>>24008869>Okay, whatever, any sane GM would use common sense and allow for doubled up half aims to equal full aims, but I guess I'm not talking to a sane person here.Clearly your opinion is forever correct and actually fact.
>>24008869Your comparison only works in a closed box, solo, without any other factors that could tip it in the skirmisher's favor (like using your other action for something, the Skirmisher not magically being held to a weapon way below what he can afford, requiring a called shot, needing ATP for something else such as neut, the skirm being close enough to add his ATS to breach), and even then it doesn't particularly favor the ATT (even if both get 0 DoS, the skirm is doing 1d10+5 Pen6 and the ATT is doing 1d10+5 Pen8).
>>24008651Fool! don't you know that the Awesome is the best at shoulder fins?
>>24007980The dark heresy rulebook is on >>>/rs/ just search for it.
>>24004791Thanks, Kara-cchan!I like the formatting too!
>>24007164Minmaxed 1.19 ATT here.You're full of shit.
>>24009026The awesome is just a fat Eva
>>24008869>Okay, whatever, any sane GM would use common sense and allow for doubled up half aims to equal full aims, but I guess I'm not talking to a sane person here.That's impossible due to vanilla DH and not the vB devs, you know.
>>24008691>>24008803>particular Bard spell affects everyone but Bard>why aren't you allowing the Bard to be at its full potential!maybe because that's just the way it works? you're coming off as nothing but a whiny bitch, really.
Bickering aside, would anyone be interested in acampaign in a Tiberium Dawn/Evangelion crossover setting? I'm the guy that wrote >>24002914 and I'mwilling to GM over IRC.
>>24010352Will there be Kane?
>>24010373Premise is as follows:* 15 years after the Second Impact seeded the world with Tiberium* Tib War One (roughly corresponding to Tiberium Dawn events) ended 10 years ago, with a GDI victory* Kane is presumed dead. I'm sure you know what his track record is on ACTUALLY being dead, but he won't appear at the start of the campaign at least.* Characters belong to the GDI Evangelion Initiative, an orbital base housing an advanced research facility, combat simulator, and Evangelion storage. It's also an academy for teenage orphans of Tib War One - the official cover for the Marduk Program.* There will be Angel combat, as well as fighting alongside GDI conventional forces against Nod conventional forces.
>>24010417Timezone and/or expected session times/lengths? Do you have a certain number of sessions in mind, or play it by ear?
>>24010417That sounds beautiful. Wish I knew how to AdEva, I'd be all over this.
>>24010436>TimezoneGMT +1, preferably starting about 22:00 on Saturdays.>Expected session length4-8 hours.>Campaign lengthI'd run the first "chapter" (4 episodes) in April, then take a month's break and start another chapter at the beginning of June if interest holds.
My major problem with AdEva so far has only been one thing: You cannot catch Sahaquiel.Devs, you need to put the ability to catch Sahaquiel in. As in, literally put the AT field requirements to completely arrest a Planetfall, how much ATP the act consumes to maintain, and the damage you obtain per round from trying to stop a two thousand tall, mile long orbital bomb from turning all of your BOP into a giant smoking crater.
>>24011449*two thousand ton
>>24011449Try Kinetic Manipulation lift/grapple against the rough weight of the angel if on 2.5 rules, or wing it. It's very situational, and you should just let your players do it if it's cool shit like that, rules or not. Playing by exact RAW is constraining.
>>24001508'Fraid not.After i've ran it IRL, I may recycle it to run online, though that'd be about a year from now.Sorry, mang.That said, i'm planning to run a pseudo-parallel quest thread here at the same time as the IRL campaign. Can't say when, both because of commitments and because it'd SPOIL THE TWEESTS, but keep your eyes peeled, and you may find it starting within the next couple of months.
>>24011518Series Sahaquiel was pretty damn big but movie Sahaquiel was almost kilometers long. I made a raw guess at it being two thousand tons but chances are it was even heavier than that. No matter how strong your EVA is, I don't think Lift/Grapple would work due to its massive weight and Kinetic Manipulation is out for the same reasons Lift/Grapple are including the fact that KM can't be used on enemies with an AT Field still active, which Sahaquiel does.Which is why if it Planetfalls, there should be something you all can do besides panic and/or shoot wildly into the sky at it as it descends. Hell, that's what they do in the story. Just give your players a rough idea of where exactly its going to land and in how much time and have them race to catch it. So one or two EVAs can try to catch and prevent it from making contact with the ground while the others Neutralize and try desperately to kill it while the "catchers" take massive damage and are unable to maintain the hold for long.
>>24011449Use Barrier, the Borderline version. Stops the fucker in its tracks, just keep maintaining it while the others try to cut it up.Shinji (especially Rebuild Shinji) is an ATT, despite Zerker being based on him.
>>24011871> Use Barrier, the Borderline version. Dude, don't be like that. Barrier has stopped people in their tracks from the chosen direction since V fucking 1. It was always meant to be the Sahaquiel catcher.
>>24011871Hmm, I have to look at the vB version. It might work in 2.5 too though. Deflective Field Barrier with as many points as possible dumped into it might be able to withstand it for a while.
>>24012120Well, I honestly forgot all about Barrier. Now that you guys have reminded me, I'll be recommending the players obtain it in my campaign.I'm planning on using the movie version of Sahaquiel where it was much bigger and didn't preface its attack with orbital bombardment and instead opted for just Planetfalling from the start. The running to the battlefield part will be a bit iffy considering we only have 3 rounds of power though.
>>24012120Meant it as in 'the Borderline version is more likely to actually succeed at the task than the 2.5 version.2.5 has Deflection equal to twice the ATP put into it.Borderline has Deflection equal to the ATP put into it, but ignores Breach from ATS...which is a LOT when it comes to Angels
>>24012167It works in all editions, ever since the first. The only reason it would fail is if you get Neutralized by the Angel to bring down the field, and even that is fiat. The attack blocking is deflection based, the "enemies cannot move through it" thing is separate and only falls apart if you are neuted to zero if your GM decides fiat that it does. And, in general, Angels don't neut players. The option is always there, but since Angels already have the advantage in the AT Dept. they never really need to.
>>24012242So Sahaquiel can't stop you at all once you catch it other than raping you with point blank attacks until your Eva breaks under the strain? I plan on giving it Angelic Weapons like it had in the movie too so whoever catches it is in for a big surprise.
>>24012279By RAW? Yeah. Barrier is super effective at stopping Sahaquiel. To get past it, it either needs to back up and try again (avoiding you next time) or find a way to render you unable to maintain the power. Damage, stun, etc. Anything so long as you have to drop the power.
>>24012299>Sahaquiel>Backing up after falling from orbitYeah, I'm pretty sure I don't need to worry about that. So yeah, its probably just going to repeatedly face-rape the poor bastard who's trying to hold it up with their Barrier. Sounds like fun for my players!
>>24012299the problem is that a whole Eva has to be used up maintaining the Barrier, so that means one less person neuting/attacking. The barrier Eva keeps the fight from becoming an auto-lose, but the other Evas have to actually score the kill.Credit to team Eva is credit to team.
>>24012337You know, one of the players would actually expect Sahaquiel to return to Orbit, since that's not what happens in the show.For extra fun? It has to return to orbit like a rocket to achieve escape velocity. falling is easy, getting back up there is hard...which means that the Evas that caught him are standing directly beneath a rocket during takeoff.They would probably survive, but it would still suuuuck.
>>24012369Well it has "boosters" in Rebuild so I guess it could just use those. Returning to orbit would be a fucking nightmare for collateral though.
>>24012432Could just have that be the Angel's plan all along, to blast a path to the Geofront with a concentrated jet of plasma or whatever. That all Evas would be conveniently in range of the blast is just icing on the cake.
>>24012432Lot less than it actually hitting, though.
>>24012454That's fucking mean. I love it.
>>24012454>>24012458>>24012517No, see. Its a win-win.If it is not stopped? Planetfall. Booyah!If it is stopped? Plasma rockets to the face, dealing massive damage to the one or more evas in range... and then we do the same dance a few hours from now.Unless the Evas can kill it in the limited amount of time before it can take off, it will just beat them up a lot and flee to try its super doomsday weapon again. But both cases either let it win or bring it that much closer to victory.
>>24012737> then we do the same dance a few hours from now.I love the idea of them not being able to repair or re-outfit the EVAs fast enough to prepare for a second or third Planetfall.
>>24014861Problem with this is then, well, what the fuck can the players do? Even a barrage of hundreds of N2 mines has no effect on Sahaquiel.
>>24014965Neutralize. keep it from fleeing. chase it to space and kill it before it can planetfall again. kill it before it can fleet. I dunno. options. It is a pretty good strategy, as far as angel plans good. But not an unbeatable one.
>>24015016But under the scenario of "the Evas can't be repaired or re-outfitted in time", none of those are viable options.
>>24015055Sounds like it's time to start handing out N2 mines like footballs.
>>24015257Somebody didn't watch 2.22. Sahaquiel shrugs off a barrage of literally HUNDREDS of N2 mines like rain.
>>24015297It's probably got a bunker field. Don't need much (for an angel) ATS to shrug off an N2 with a bunker field.
>>24016691aaaand the second fight with ithttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1ax29c9TvM2e6QIVwalhQKWCSYHAVbn-4vI9eIl9oQEI/edit?usp=sharing
>>24009214You're behind the times, moron.
>>24009401No, it's more like having the Fighter rely on the Bard to get stuff that makes him actually competent at what he does, which is a joke because the Fighter is competent at nothing.
>>24018536>>24018569oh great, you guys are back
>>24016691>>24016802You're a mad man.
>>24018569...but the Skirmisher doesn't NEED the ATT to buff them to be competent. They're good at what they do, the ATT can make them be better.
>>24019925And what about this guy?https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pSeUVA1EVuUC5h_L2XuX0mab7bvod5Tl30t65dCCM0A/edit?usp=sharing
bump because all these stupid threads are filling the front page instead of AdEva goodness.
>>24021528We're in autosage now, unfortunately. I think.
>>24021608>>24021528That just means somone needs to make a new thread.I'd do it but I have no good images to use as the OP.
>>24021696I'd say we need a new thread too, but those normaly fall flat on their face.AdEva threads generally need a starting direction
>>24021758I wish they could be like BTGs or something, but the system just isn't... big enough. Neither is the fluff, really.
>>24021956Well, I personally want to make anAdEva mythos based on Australian Aboriginal mythology, but I doubt /tg/ would be able to help me there.