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File: 1379537566450.png-(288 KB, 900x599, 1375141678086.png)
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With is mark 6 anyway?

Oh well continuing thread old one hit limit.

Here is my idea. I'm going to make a set of runes assigning a value to each one. Everyone will choose which runes they wish keeping the sum value below a predetermined amount.

After everyone has chosen their runes I will pose a problem they need to solve using the runes they have.

Everyone draws a circle and I subtract the value of each used rune from the final score (available mana)

You get points on if your circle works and lose ponts for fizzle or fail.

You get points for aesthetics.

At the end points are tallied and a winner.

Now I need the updated rune codex and to figure out points and watnot.
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>>27302114
I'm still slowly plowing away on it... trying to make them all pretty-like for all of you guys. It'll probably turn out shit anyway, but meh.
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>>27302207
post progress pls
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>>27302207
Appreciated anon
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>>27302240
Just let me finish up water and air to round out the classical elements, then sure. Sorry for the slow progress guys, but trying to get this shit to look halfway decent in Paint without a tablet is draining.
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Decided to try and make a spell.
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>>27302296
You could simply make a larger rune around the existing rune that tries to add on a condition that adds such a mana tax to the rune that it stops working outright and instead starts gathering ambient mana again to try and complete.
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>>27302348
>>27302348
Sustaining all sight but yours?
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>>27302114
>mfw i will never live to see a new SoA game.
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>>27302348
this is a good invisibility spell
though I guess 'other' is a bit vague for a rune
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>>27302433
Wrong thread?
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Dis some Eternal Darkness shit
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They're shitty, and it's slow progress, but it's better than nothing, I guess.
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>>27302466
OP pic is from SoA
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>>27302466
No, the image in OP is from that game. They're to do with the moons.
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>>27302443
He needs runes like image and not. But invisi is a tough nut
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On the topic of using the actual runes vs. using English words: What if arrays that use words are used as a teaching tool so that the array isn't actually cast?
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>>27302114
Is there a list of the runes so far made up?
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>>27302534
That's what I was thinking. Draw it up using words then use runes so some Dingus doesn't activate it.
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>>27302534
That makes sense. After all, we don't want neophyte runescribes blowing themselves up now, do we? Besides, it also allows us to spellcheck it for any potential disasters.
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>>27302525
I think sight is alright
perception is a thing with clear enough borders that it can be influenced trough runes
just that others should be replaced with 'all humans except for self' or something
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Seeing as you guys seem like you need it and I want to see what sort of crazy shit you'd do with it, I've also slapped down a "null" rune in my guide. It's a circle with a double-curved line running through it. When inscribed in a circle, it'd sort of look like an excluding circle with an affecting life running inside it, through the inner circle. Go nuts and show me what you can do.
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I'm still going

Can you guess what it does?
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>>27302534
Yeah, that makes sense.

Words require the array to be larger and more unwieldly, but they make things much smoother when designing arrays and not actually casting.
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>>27302477
Air seems a little out of place, if I am honest. The others are good.
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>>27302737
This is the first thread Ive been in, I have no idea how the connections work
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>>27302737
seems sort of random
there isn't one central focus and modifiers are stacking like it's nothing
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>>27302486
>>27302737
Using gravity to stop time for everyone but you while making a large light?

That or blackhole
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>>27302534
I guess that's sort of what we're using them for too
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>>27302737
Thread 5 noob, but I think you are making a small black hole you can throw a target into, excluding yourself.
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>>27302798
...do we have any WMD circles yet, or is this our potential first?
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File: 1379540617807.pdf-(191 KB, PDF, Magic Circles.pdf)
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>>27302783
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>>27302821

Light absorbing giant lazer cannon from last thread?
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>>27302839
Danke
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>>27302821
Many have been made, perpetual chain lighting, laser turrets, and a self-replicating flesh eating circle.
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>>27302821
We have plenty. My first one was a rune that copied itself onto a target. Then kept copying itself basically it drains the life out of anyone it touches by making copies ad infinitum. Like a plague.
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>>27302821

The super fuckups infinite lightning plague
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>>27302869
See why you have to spell check your runes?
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>>27302770
Yeah, I don't like it either, but I can't seem to come up with anything... GOOD for it. Also, I just realised, what with the creation of the "null" rune in there, we don't need a "death" or "destroy" rune as a "create" or "life" rune modified with null will do the trick which appeals to me more. That way, we won't just have all these ridiculous runes floating about that were made just so someone could solve a problem. I know we have exclusion circles, but this is a lot more... open-ended, so to speak. You can work with it a lot more that you can an excluded rune. If nothing else, it can be a dispel or some shit.
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I want to implement this sort of thing. Don't know what it would be for though.
Something to stabilize? Maybe the creation of a stable repeating rune loop?
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>>27302795
Usual rules still apply. Work from the inside out, modifiers count as being farther inside than the rune they are attached to.

>>27302798
>>27302813
It's a teleport.

It surrounds the caster with a cushion of force which he can aim and direct at will, while negating gravity (And thus, inertia) in a small area around him. The caster stops moving when he hits the target destination.

While this is happening, time is excluded from distance, space, and the caster himself, making the process instantaneous for everyone else.

Basically, when the rune is activated, the caster slides across distance without being affected by time.

It also creates a lot of light and sound because explosive teleports are cool.
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>>27302903
Look up the various runic alphabets, alchemical symbols, and demonology symbols
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>>27302911
That is actually bretty cool.
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>>27302737
I just find modifying modifiers somewhat unpleasing. Is it even valid syntax?

Why not just organize them using the number of edges rule?
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>>27302997
It's a bit up in the air, but I think metamodifiers are a nice feature as it allows for a ton of extra complexity, and multiple different edge modifiers would look really bad.
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>>27302997
Its valid and its easy to make it look pleasing, truthfully its required to avoid automation and random rune creation.
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>>27303044
>>27303029
Hmmm, seems fair enough.
I'm convinced.
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>>27302911
I'm having trouble discerning the layers, since it seems "force surrounds self" is the center, while the "mentally controlled movement to pointed target" are in the same 'layer' as "exclude self gravity".
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>>27302931
The alchemical symbol for air is just triangle-based, though. Boooooring. Also, I can't find a rune for air. Is there even one or am I just being a retard?
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>>27303067
The trick is that while there is only one central point, there are two second layers.

You need to work outwards from both at once for it to makes sense.
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>>27302348
I don't think I've seen a single proper use of "exclude" yet. And really, I've seen fucking dozens.

Since I haven't found this link on the thread:
http://imgur.com/a/iIWfw
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Hey, everyone! Have a crappy update! Woo!
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>>27302997
The rule of edges is for the chronological order of affecting, not modifying.

Modifier = Adjective. Big Fire.
Affecter = Verb. Lob Fire
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>>27303189
Somebody posted the pdf here >>27302839
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>>27303214
It is for chronological order. That's it.
It was never stated that it is explicitly and only for affecting.
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>>27303189
>For example, if one wants to create a dome wherein water does not come. One would link the dome rune (shown for argument in blue) with the rune for water (in red), thereby creating a dome wherein water cannot come.
Water does not exist within/cannot enter/does not effect/etc the dome. That spell makes it so Self does not exist within/cannot enter/does not effect/etc the sight of (all) others. The sustain is put in the wrong place, though, as it should be in another circle that encloses the sight/(excluded)self pair. As-is, the sustain makes the spell not make any sense and fail. The exclusion seems to be correctly done.
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>>27303275
>If runes are AFFECTING one another within a circle, you must show which is which. FOR THIS, EDGES ARE USED.

Seems pretty clear to me, bro/
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File: 1379542982621.png-(69 KB, 1916x1680, Cannon.runetime.png)
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Hey Y`all Folks!

Guess who made a functioning cannon with a compact self contained firing system!

it just shoots in the most NOT you direction, or, directly away from you.
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>>27303323
And then, right in the first thread, perhaps even by OP, we were using edges to organize compressing and projecting a fireball.

But okay, bad phrasing, it is stated that it is for affecting, but it was never stated that it -can't- be used for modifying.
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>>27303338
I just got it. No two people here have understood the same syntax for runes. It was a pretty but futile endeavor, so see ya around.
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>>27303440
sounds like magic
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>>27303440
This may have to do with the fact that it is not yet a fixed system, anon.

It is still being made and thought and stretched.
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>>27303385
Nah, OP left before the final patch of the fireball was released.
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>>27303518
No he came back and is at work now.
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I called it "Moondrop". Try guess what it does, then i will tell you what i wanted to do, then you will tell me where i went wrong.
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So, I'm still here, trying to chart up the runes... Anyone have any ideas? I'm trying to keep it to the sort of abstract concepts or nonspecific things, such as "fire", "light" and such and not things like "bridge" as we had someone suggest. However, "bridge" as a synonym for "connect" would be fair game. Things like that. That way, we can't have people just slapping down runes that JUST SO HAPPEN to fix their problem or provide the effect they want to achieve. I know runes are supposed to have specific effects as stated in the orginal design document, but to me it seems better if things are abstract when used singularly, but by adding affecting lines and modifiers, you start to cut down on room for error. This will also make faulty runes a lot more... interesting in their effects, I think.

Also, I'm pretty sure I recall it was established that only a few runes can works as both modifiers and subjects but people here seem to be using whatever they damn well please in any circle whatsoever. Perhaps we need to really knuckle down and iron out the basics and shit again?
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>>27303588
Matter.
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>>27303587
Looks like it will create a small sphere of... I think the intention would be glass, but in reality it would create a ball of magma.
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>>27303587
Lava shell?
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>>27303587
I really like them aesthethics.

But hmmm, User-controlled flow of glass/magma?
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>>27303588

Was it ? I thought the circles just described the way they interacted???

So you could ({create}-{ large})-( fire) or ,(({fire}-{Large})-(create)) or whateer you want???

I will definitely agree that people are do things diferently, but its not actually made yet, right? We are just messing about with what is possible to help one guy, mark6 , the origional op, flesh out his rune system. Then it became so much more. btw this is the 8th thread, not 6th.
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>>27303587
This is what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure early on we came to the general idea that things like "fire" couldn't modify things like "earth"... It's not exactly a strict "nouns can't be modifiers" rule because there were some that were considered fine and of course I could be completely and utterly wrong, but having any rune be able to act as both subject, affector and modifier and everything in between just doesn't strike me as an original intention of the system. maybe I'm just being finicky here.
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>>27303629
>>27303637
Well i tried to make a anti-metal (or anti- any other thing made from earth modified by fire) protection charm. "Thou shalt not perish from blade" like thing. So what needs repairs to actually do that?
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>>27303692
Fireball, Chain Lightning and Teleport guy here.

I've been sticking to my guns as far as modifiers are concerned. I don't think I've ever used a modifier as a subject, or vice versa. I am guilty of modifying modifiers though. Very guilty of that.
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wouldnt fire affecting earth just set the earth on fire?
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>>27303675
Yeah, see... we REALLY need to establish the basic rules if /tg/ is going to take this further. Me, I'm of the school of thought that a create rune affecting a fire rune that has been modified with large should be THE way to create a large fire. A unified syntax would be mighty helpful here.
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>>27303711
Maybe earth modified by heat? or, perhaps an actual metal rune?

I think we should avoid having runes combine to make semi-basic concepts, like fire+earth=metal. A full lexicon of runes would be good.
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>>27303732
It depends entirely on how abstract you're willing to take the concepts.
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>>27303711
An anti-something rune that doesn't have an exculsion circle ANYWHERE in it's construction?! Well, that's problem numero uno, for a start.

>>27303729
Oh, no. Modifying modifiers is fine. it makes the whole thing much more FUN.
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>>27303588
>Light
>Frost
>Mana
>Impact

>>27303692
Well I understand your point, but eh. I favor this kind of stuff. Finding creative uses for stuff and mixing things in proper and unproper ways is what I'm finding the most fun in this.
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>>27303759
>this.

Make our own dictionary of "Basic" and "Complex" runes.
>Just like coloring, but with magicks!
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Fuck it, namefagging from now on fto make things easier

>>27303789
Also, wasn't there a lightning rune knocking about somewhere? Does anyone know what that was?
Oh,
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>>27303732
depends if you lean on the interpretive language side of the camp, or the programming language side.

Me? I'm for programming. The universe doesn't 'interpret' anything, it does what it does based on natural laws and processes. You don't have acceleration being different based on what equation it is in for physics, for example.
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>>27303832
Problem is that there's two parts of the programing side. "Thing A does thing A, you've got to be fucking specific", and "I can use Booleans and shit to make this retarded easy". The first is ok, the second takes all the difficulty and magic out of the system and just makes it C++ (or your prgraming language of choice) for reality.
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>>27303588
>Invert/Inverse ?
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>>27303832
Idea, two 'levels' of magic!

basic, 'universe code' level, everything is exactly literal, but then a second, higher, interpretive rune drawn out of this lower level.

Imagine, the lines of an interpretive spell are actually drawn from tiny universe magik script! a basic system designed, then carved into your medium of choice, which primes a special library of interpretive runes.

A basic wizard may rely on pre-made indexs and languages for his magic, while an advanced wizard may carve directly in universe magik, or create his own, personal interpretive magik.
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>>27303857
Booleans could be a mid-level interpretive style language like >>27303871 was talking about, they require some work to set up on a large scale for large and complex runes that need them.
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>>27303832
I don't see the "interpretative" side, if I'm getting it right, straying too far from natural laws and processes.
Almost all anons interpreted that given spell as "glass" or "magma", for example - because they were the most logical outcome of modifying elemental earth with elemental fire.
It is just that it is magical logic.
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>>27303863
So... a fucking NOT gate?
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>>27303789
Pic related. Look at "Moondrop" (i'm sorry i find this name funny). Look at white elements SURROUNDED BY BLUE CIRCLE which connects to Contain Rune. So... I think i did it by the book. Or should i encompass it in circle one more time?
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>>27303928
forgot pic
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>>27303829
I would say we need fast, slow, move, connect/bridge as was said, metal earth air fire water.

Hot and cold. Stop. Create and destroy away and to. Something like induce or imbue.


Compress or something likeit. Cut and impact. Penetrate. Open and close.


And target. Any more you can think of?
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>>27303926
No? Maybe...?
The idea was, for example, getting "Invert Fire" for icemaking and such switching of energy spectrum stuff.
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>>27303928
Should be a double circle.
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>>27303915
It is interpretive, because we, as humans, are making the logical conclusion that fire+earth=metal. The problem is, is that it is INCREDIBALY ambiguous. it could mean setting the earth on fire, smothering the fire with earth, heating up the earth, burning earth, making metal, making burnt dust, ETC.

I would expect that in real magic, a statement like that would give you an extremely random result, while ORE + HEAT (lots(lots(lots))) = METAL would most likely give you the result you are looking for.

Magic is a robot, tell it to go forward, and it will walk through a wall, tell it to raise its arm, and it will raise "upwards" forever, tell it to grab something, it will crush it. You need to be specific and un-ambiguous on such a low level.

this is, of course, assuming that this language will NOT be interpretive like english, or even some programming languages, and will be more like assembly.
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>>27303951
And we need directional runes like up down left and right
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>>27303928
put a grey circle around the grey runes, and enclose that with the blue circle already there.
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>>27304027
north, south, ETC, being relative to equatorial and polar leylines
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>>27302114
What is this anyway? I googled GDI runes but of course only this thread came up. Anyone care to share with a newb?
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>>27304071
>>27304071
God da** it runes!

Its a system to draw runes for magic. And I'm making a game to play here weekly with it.

PDF is in thread.
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>>27304109
Okay thanks!
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>>27303951
Maybe we could add fast/slow in the syntax?

For example: The lines as they are now are instant (------); adding a line would start quantifying time more and more in fractions (---|---); (--|--|--); (--|-|-|--)...
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posted new list in wrong thread:
>>27304196
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>>27304226
Kikinak? As in the birdman cursed to live in the forest who aids tamamayu?
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Shit, guys, we are forgetting something.

When making a spell, ATLEAST 1 rune within a bounding circle has to be a triangle or more.

Take, for instance, a two rune spell. Sustain, and Fire. ONE of these need to be a circle, while the other needs to be something else, to show order of ops. Even if it is readily apparent what the order should be, we still need to use different figures.

On a related note, can we get rid of shapes? just having circles with suitably arcane looking hashmarks or tags would fill the same purpose, while still staying circular.

Question, from an inner circle to an outer, which affects which? and since the "inner" circle is just a bounding circle around runes, and is such a compound rune function, shouldn't it be subject to order of ops as well? like a bounding triangle affects a bounding circle, each with there own runes within
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>>27304027
Hmm... I'd probably be more inclined for >>27304056 because those are absolute and not relative. I don't really like runes that "know" positioning relative to where the caster is facing, you know? I mean, if the majority want them, fair enough. I am but a humble cataloguer. Don't take this the wrong way, I don't MIND relative runes... but if there's a way for them to be absolute FIRST, I'd rather use that. In this instance, direction. Cardinal directions and up/down (as in above/below) are something I was doing anyway. I've added heat and cold to the mix, because they're different to, say, fire and ice. I imagine a "cold fire" would simply be a dull flame. A "hot fire" would be very intense. This would mean a "small, hot fire" would be something like a blowtorch flame or a blue flame from a Bunsen burner. A "large cold flame" would be big, sure... but not exactly a massive wildfire or the like. Really, it's basically "more energy" and "less energy" but I'm using "heat" and "cold" for simplification.
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>>27304011
But it is not -earth- as in earth, but earth as the -element- earth. If it was not so, earth would be a very limited rune, after all.
Hence why most people concluded that "magma/lava". It is "earth on fire". (Fire modifying Earth).

I mean, no, it's not physics, but, specially if such relations were outlined, it's perfectly practical and predictable for magic....
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>>27304290
You only need to have order of operations if there are two circles within the same circle and it's unclear which one affects the other.
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>>27304337
Makes sense. I still think up and down would be good though.
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I changed this to fit rules. Now it should measure acceleration of moving earth-aligned objects. I think.

>>27304290
Seconded. Circles are enough.
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>>27304290
for instance, according to the original OP's rules, the example spell (the campfire) would have to have all 3 affecting runes (sustain, contain, and create) would have to be triangles or some other shape, while the central rune would need to be a circle, SHOWING that the outer runes are affecting the inner runes.
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>>27304354
nah, you always need order of ops, just to avoid confusion for people. remember, this IS magic, it doesn't interpret human modes of logic.

when two runes are in the same circle, and they are both circles, they are affecting each other at the same time. the spell doesn't know which one goes first and affects the other, because they are both given the same precedence.
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Just realized, but this is pretty much magical Arabic. looks pretty, but is annoying to write.
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>>27304261
Yup. Also the shopkeeper in the sequel. You're like, the third person ever to get the reference
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>>27304601
I loved that game. Might download it later.
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>>27304364
looks damn sexy, list of all the runes though? I'm having trouble remembering them.
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>>27304290
If we're still keeping that "energetic activation" concept, we could make a runic slot for it and... And then it would proceed like an electrical circuit.
From the activation point to the its sucessive connections, as (magical) energy in (runic) wires.
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>>27304677
Basically it does doesn't it? Inside to out.
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Oh, look. It's another abysmally-done rune catalogue! Go, fellow anons! Sally forth and fiddle with the new stuff!
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>>27304773
Oh, also... seeing as I can't, someone please make a rune that uses air, just so a better rune than mine gets made that I can steal. I'll give you a cookie.
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>>27304773
>Directional runes

Ugh

We can't make an array with any of those in because they are *entirely* situational. If you want to aim a spell in a specific direction, use an [Aim: [Target]] + [Thought : [Control]] > Glyph system
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>>27304677
that could work, but then we could run into problems with overlapping lines. I say just have the activation rune be based on location.

If its linked to a specific rune, the input power that rune.

If it's connected to a bounding circle, all runes WITHIN that circle (not connected to it) are activated.

If it's connected to the outermost bounding circle, the input rune activates the entire spell.

if multiple inputs are connected to the same base (rune, bounding circle, outer circle) ALL inputs need to be active to activate whatever they are attached to

If an input is attached to an input, it acts as a positive/negative, where if, for instance, there is a group of two inputs, and 1 is active, it activates the part of the spell it is attached to. if both are active, the spell does not activate. this can be repeated to the nth degree, and nested.

If there are multiple inputs that conflict, the more specific input takes precedence, in short, input hierarchy is from the inside out.

this could also be used for Boolean meta-spells, with a Inputs themselves being the entire circuit, or other affects as well, such as a pressure input activating a beam of light, which if it hits a light input rune, could activate a trap.
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>>27304880
I think this would be a much better way to do Boolean functions, instead of cheap IF statements.
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>>27304866
I love the glyph but for the sake of the gameim doing I will probably be allowing the players to use (target) for any line of sight target. Otherwise your glyph is awesome.
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>>27304880
>>27304922
I like it. Gives a whole new meaning to those "energy" runes, too.
>>
Hey, instead of different bounding shapes, why not roman or some other easily writable counting system for order of ops? higher numbers go first and affect lower numbers, with no hash marks (a circle) being the last to go, and never affecting anything.

would look much better, and fit better with circles than traingles, squares, and Nthagons
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>>27304866
Except, honestly, YOU'RE the only one I've seen who routinely uses the "aim target, thought control, project" deal. Having "target with controlled thoughts" is, again, one of those instant cop-out things that just bypasses the restrictions set upon you by the system. Where's the fun in that? Don't get me wrong, those are some damn fine runes, but it's almost as if the universe WANTS people to make runes that kill shit and blow things up and generally screw with... y'know, ITSELF. Do try to remember, guys, you're working AGAINST the system. Not with it. It is NOT your friend with a rune for every situation.
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>>27305028
The universe is full of amazing and wonderful runes students. And all of them want to blow you up.
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>>27305028
I use it because it works within the system to gain a desired result.

It doesn't create any new rules, and it introduces the absolute minimum possible value of vagueness for what it does. I mean, I could expand it into say, 5 rings that serve to link the thoughts of the caster to the aiming of the spell, but it would have the same effect and the exact same amount of vagueness.
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>>27305013
Because then it wouldn't be the original system. I think the things that should be most certainly off-limits are the initial rules that Mark6 and the rest of started with, just for legacy's sake. I get that it doesn't maybe look as good as it could, but again, try to remember that flavour-wise (because there is a setting thought process behind this. Always remember that,) that humans don't MAKE the rules. They merely USE them.
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>>27305028
that's because we have no runic language, right now people are just using words that they think will allow them to resolve a problem in a unique way, not necessarily a hard way however.
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>>27304773
I really like your runes. Although, I must agree with >>27304866 on the directional ones. They must be direction-independent, even if directional. Making South just "horizontal North" is very hard to quantify when vertical and horizontal are entirely relative.
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>>27305116
>*East just "horizontal North"
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>>27305071
Hey, I didn't say the runes were bad. They're great. I'm just trying to keep things as close to original vision as I can, which was something that you utilise, but doesn't really play nice with you. It's not a pampering system. I find it weird that there would even BE runes that just so happened to let runecasters basically have complete and utter control so simply. Think of me as the guy who keeps our feet on the ground while you all do your fantastic dreaming. It bumbs me out that I have to basically be Mr. No Fun, but I don't want the guys from the original few threads to come back and find it a completely different beast than how they left it. We're still stuck at the schism of how it works, either "as programming" or "as interpritation" or whatever. We're still confused as to just what IS the exact correct syntax to use, so on and so forth. I'm trying to make sure both parties can still enjoy and utilise this, even if I have to be the bad guy.
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>>27305088
I understand that, but it's effectively the same thing. We aren't changing the base mechanics, It's just a simple matter of graphical design. bounding circles with more sides (A higher number) go before circles with a lower, and a regular circle is always affected, and never affects.

also, this solves the ugly problem of all spells that have an affect within them needing a triangle or some other shape, since two circles cannot affect each other.
>>
Anon is still all up for the magical circuit idea.
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>>27305178
I was adding some flavor text is all.
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>>27305116
>>27305141
Yeah, I know. Believe me, I do. I'm just trying to get you guys runes as fast as I can, which means I have to make some placeholders. I do have a few that I plan on changing, probably with the next catalogue update. "Air" "East" and "West" being the main three, seeing as North and South are pretty radically different. I also want to tidy up some runes I just scribbled down without making them look as fancy neat as the first few in my haste to get them out. Remember, this is as much a work-in-progress as this whole system is. Any input you guys could give me would be great, after all.
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>>27304880
Something that was mentioned earlier was that runes don't activate until they are fully completed. So one could draw the whole array, and then not fully enclose the outer circle, allowing for the rune to run at a later time. using this, you could easily do the first couple of things you mentioned.
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>>27305227
Just got an idea. Make a rune that points north then you have no more problems a compass circle so to speak.
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>>27305241
that would be ambient magic, I believe. It doesn't matter, anyways, having input runes to do basic functions would still allow for more precise, but basic spells.

Lets just say that spell wont activate until the outer circle is complete, and its input (if it has one) is activated.
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>>27305241
Rune can be completely drawn. They don't activate till you add a small amount of kickstart energy. Starter energy is required but it then runs on its own
We need a rune for life death and animal. Also blood.
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>>27305190
Sometimes, you want simultaneous stuff. The whole order of operations as determined by vertex is not that bad, really. I've seen some pretty stuff made with it. Also, remember that it's anything with more vertices at all. So if you have something affecting a circle, it can be a prettier shape than a triangle if it has more sides... like a diamond for instance.
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PSA: HOW ORDER OF OPS WORK, OCORDING TO DA RULES

red = bad, blue = good

two circles cannot be in an affecting relationship, as they both activate simultaneously, and the spell has no idea which goes first. (this could only be remedied by a dual affecting link, with each circle linking to the other)

and so, for ALL affecting relationships, there must be an order of operations, liek in pic related.
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>>27305227
Thanks, oh Scribe. All cool.
My contribooting, besides throwing random ideas and criticism around, is kinda hard now. At work, and I have some, erm, pressing engagements tonight.

But I'll keep hanging around a bit, and thanks for the runes, nonetheless.
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>>27305292
I'd make life and blood the same, and put death into "destroy", for more wide and encompassing meanings.
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>>27305292
Life is there. Death is "null life". That's the intended purpose of the null rune. And we did decide that we really want to try to distance ourselves from this "hard programming" thinking, otherwise we're just making omnipotent programming here which, and I hate to say this so often, is not Mark6's original intent as I understand it.
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>>27305329
The outermost circle affects the innermost circle. It's there somewhere in the original design document. This is why shape placement is very important. You need an observable centre.
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>>27305299
In that case, you can do a dual link, but a single link should only allow one thing to affect another.
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>circles
>horisontal lines
May as well write in Sindarin.
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>>27305365
Animal and plant are important though. Not really specific, I guess you could use small life for animal or small wood life for plant but still.
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>>27305404
If Death = Null Life, then I think Darkness should be Null Light
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>>27305404
Also, technically "cold" = "no heat", so it's redundant.
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>>27305404
It was stated that they weren't actually based on Futhark runes by Mark6 himself, people just assumed they were. He revealed it's actually taking the letters of either the word or a synonym, rotating and flipping them then stacking them on top of each other in a cool-looking fancy way.

Also... m-m-my... my hard work... all g-g-gone... *sniff*
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>>27305404
I'd not define what function each one has. As in "verb" and "constant" and...
Just let it open and wide. Some things are better this way.
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>>27305440
Cold is not no heat. Do we have a purify rune?
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>>27305392
Yeah, but take the campfire spell, there is no inner circle, there is just a fire rune in the center.

however, if say, the fire rune was enclosed in a second circle, with the affecting lines from the other 3 runes still touching the fire rune itself, then you would be correct. As is this case now, however, there is a conflict as the spell does not know which affected which, which is why the fire rune either needs to be within a bounding circle, or the other 3 runes need to be a triangle or something.
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>>27305457
Eh, it's okay.
Less runes: "sustain" = "delay movement".
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>>27305468
Purify is a hard concept...
Hmm, perhaps a "separate" one? "Divide"?
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>>27305457
Oh, almost forgot. Runes that have relationships and similarities in function not having similarities in design was a concious choice by quite a lot of people. Again, in terms of the flavour, HUMANS are not the makers of the runes. The Universe is. We basically figured out how it codes shit and now we're making it think stuff should be coded when it shouldn't. We're basically creating mutations in the universe genetic code. Yes, that's right. Magic is FUCKING CANCER. BADASS CANCER.
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>>27305505
Maybe just pure? Solid? I'm thinking like create pure earth for metal.
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>>27305518
How about self-modifying code?
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>>27305499
Sustain is a different concept, I figuere. It is less of making it last longer as it is making it last until it can't anymore.
It is not taking longer to reach the destination, it is taking the most possible, or maybe not reaching at all.

>>27305524
How would it work? How to target the given element, and how to define what is supposed to be pure?
For example, when targeting seawater, how will the spell figure if it should get pure water, or pure salt?
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>>27305483
Are you saying the campfire spell is wrong? As I understand it, you NEED two circles. This is because one is the focus, which is the most centre-bound rune and the other is the final, enclosing circle that contains the entire spell. Both the example it gives when describing affecting are incorrect as standalones, because they lack an enclosing circle. The same applies for the example provided for exclusion.
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>>27305505
>>27305524
>>27305552
"Base"?
As in, "Return targeted/affected elements each to their most basic natural state"?
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>>27305552
Target the seawater. Create pure water or create pure earth. Salt is earth element.
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>>27305593
Although move water exclude heart would work too....
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>>27305593
>>27305624
Hmmm, nice. Purrty nice.
We're almost reaching industrial magicks, here.
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>>27305624
Earth not heart.
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>>27305568
pic related
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>>27305568
Does (energy(air)) equal electricity? Or do we have a rune for it?
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>>27302114
>With is mark 6 anyway?
You called?
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>>27305624
>>27305638
I think the exclusion would be the optimal solution. While both would do the trick, it would be common practice to do the exclusion rather than two creates. We've established that "create" is a high-mana costing rune, so you'd want to minimise the usage of it as much as possible. The exclusion causes the spell to only create one thing: the pure water while excluding earth. This "tricks" the spell into creating salt.
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>>27305676
hey, OP, am I right in saying that there is a conflict with your campfire spell, outlined in >>27305668, or am I just looking at this too hard?
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>>27305676
Yeah look at what you have done! OK campfire has been called into question. Thoughts?
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>>27305668
No, the first one would work. The rules disctate that the outermost runes AFFECT the innermost runes. Affection is one-way. Ergo, the 3 affecting runes affect only fire, because they are closer to the edge than fire is.
>>
Shouldn't there be a basic order of operations?

Like Modify before Affect before...
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>>27305692
Yes so the move would be the better route. GDI this is too much fun.
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>>27305725
Actually, I call that back. It is pretty nonsensical to consider natural magic energy has a logical and pre-estabilished order of operations.
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>>27305717
No, the rules say that outermost CIRCLES affect the innermost CIRCLES, not runes. therefore, if you wish to have a spell of all circles like the campfire, the Fire rune needs to be within its own personal bounding circle.
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>>27305725
You mean like BIDMAS? I think we've all sort of subconsciously worked out that modification applies before affection.
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>>27305743
That it would, sir. We only have so much mana the leylines provide us with. Although, I have realised a problem in both our assumptions. We would need to exclude both "pure earth" and "earth", because we'd also get sand and all of the dirt from the seabed and shit.
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I have changed the original imgur page to reflect the problem people have been having regarding tiers.

The focus of your spell always occupies its own tier. Like here, the fire rune in the centre is not inside a "circle" but inside a "tier" just like the contain, create and sustain runes are inside their own tier (the outside circle).

When a runecircle affects another *inside the same tier*, you must show which is affecting which, using corners. Triangles affects circles, squares affect triangles and so forth.

BUT, if a runecircle affects a less tier (with the focus of your spell always being the "smallest" tier), then you do not need to show order of operations.
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>>27305761
But it would probably work either way. I thought mods changed nature of the rune before anything else happened.
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>>27305760
Uhhhhh, am I missing a trick here or are the runes not enclosed in circles? I'm pretty sure that's a circle around that there fire rune, bub.
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>>27305806
Yes, they do. Think about it, though. "Move pure water, excluding earth" is fine. You'd get your pure water. However, you're excluding all earth-based materials. That means you'd be left with a lump of everything earth-based within the water sample, not JUST salt. Rock particulates, sand, salt, silicates... that sort of thing meaning you'd get a globulous mass of mud.
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>>27305760
>>27305814
Since the "Small" modifier is withing the "Fire" circle, then, it would be safe to assume that it operates first, and then the affecting runes are affecting (in fact) a "Small Fire"?
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>>27305793
True so it would need more work to get pure salt. Maybe run it through on a (move(earth(target))) using the target as a verified piece of salt.
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Need to update with RuneSribe's stuff, but is still more inclusive and neater than a lot of the other charts
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>>27305864
Seeing as that is the literal definition of how an overlapping circle works, yes.
>>
Modification before affection, yes. We haven't really fiddled with exclusion enough to determine where it would go because it's always been isolated within it's own tier, thus causing no conflict between the other operations. I think we should probably look at exclusion a bit more, especially since me and the other Runey fellow here just worked out you could purify 2 things with it. That should not have taken 6 threads to happen. So, exclusion focus time, I think!
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>>27305796
I just went back and changed the imgur page (http://imgur.com/a/iIWfw) a bit more. Anything else you guys want me to change that is stil ambiguous?
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>>27305912
I think the more we screw around with it the more weird things we will be able to do with it. Shoot me a new problem.
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>>27305898
I eliminated some things because their functions were naught but splitting hairs. For instance, I realised my push rune and project can be applied to do the same damn thing, hence I've made the project rune INTO push. Fist is iffy... would the universe really happen to have a rune that just creates that perfect shape that we need? It was used to illustrate points and ideas... and also to cast Fist. Compress and pull, likewise, can actually be tinkered with to do the same thing... Active, inactive and touch are now obsolete as we're not allowing runic magic to do shit like that that easily any more. We'll probably come up with a more accepted substitute soon, but until then, it was basically to allow the whole "When self touches rune, rune is active" deal going against the spirit of the thing. Others on there I just haven't got around to yet. Weight... well, that'd just be "pull earth" now, wouldn't it? Whether it's an affection, modifcation and which order they interact... I'll leave that up to you fine fellows, but you see what I'm trying to achieve here. A library that has utility, so to speak. All it needs is the right mindset.
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>>27305898
This list is kind of... bloated, I think.
The smaller RuneScribe and >>27305404 anon still take the cake for me.
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>>27305949
Hmmm... how about increasing the ambient heat of an area, but not allowing combustion to occur. A runic thermostat, if you will, but one that doesn't melt people or set them on fire.
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>>27305912
I am here, you could just ask what I meant by exclusion.
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>>27305998
Oh, and null can function as stop if you used correctly as well. We really, REALLY don't want duplicate runes or runes that do the same job, only a little different because affection, modification and elimination all exist alongside tiers.
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>>27306029
(Pull(small(heat))) would pull heat to the rune but only a small amount of it. I think and project(small(heat))) would make it. But (move(heat)->target might work if say you target your fireplace and move it from your fridge it does two jobs.. exclude in here would be weird.


(Move(large(heat)))=> target)(ÔéČlife)?
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>>27306064
What did you mean?
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>>27306065
A single create rune sharing a bond between the first rune (simultaneous activation) would cause infinite plague loop. Like I designed.
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>>27306141
The main point of Exclusion is to create a spell that forbids whatever from the area. Sort of like magic circle from D&D. The reason why it is not just a focus rune is so you can use it with other stuff.

For example, say you want to make a wall of fire. Simple enough right? But then someone can just throw water on it and there goes dinner. So in the spell, you can say exclude water, so now you have a firewall spell that can't be touched by water.
>>
I WANT PINKILL
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>>27306171
Not that I'm saying you can't find other uses for Exclusion. That was just my initial thinking when I made it.
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>>27306131
The problem is there's heat in fire. And by pulling it, you'd create basically a trail that would ignite until you get fire all up in your face. The exclusion is to make sure it doesn't do that. Yeah, there are other ways of doing it and it's not exactly pretty, but it operates as a failsafe.

>>27306160
Also, wut? Infinite plague? Do illustrate, my good man!
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>>27306181
So would something like >>27302348's use of exclusion work?
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>>27306181
We have been using it as a limiter for instance create death excluding me makes nothing or a death field.

Your example would basically equal create firewall without making water.
>>
Linear runecircles description syntax, because drawing is too long (though interesting).
*A* - A is focus; A~B - same level link; A>B - A affects B; A#(#(B)) - A excludes B; A[B, C] - A is modified by B and C. Brackets for order, "+" for independant schemes.
Ex. 1: "Campfire" (see: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/27276154/images/1379408038176.jpg). (*fire*[small]~(create, sustain, contain))
Ex. 2: "Golem" (see: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/27276154/images/1379422438932.png). (((*energy*[life]~create)~give[sustain])~control)
Ex. 3: "No sense of right and wrong" (now those are some dirty hacks) (see: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/27276154/images/1379433504272.png). ((((*fire*[large]~create)<compress)<project[target])+release[swift]<delay[small])#(#((rune[target]<copy[swift])<stop))~self

Congratulations, this is Wizard Lisp!
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>>27306201
I'm guessing it's an invisibility spell. But no, he is excluding himself from the spell.

>>27306225
I would suggest having a specific rune for limiting then. Exclusion is for wanting something to be physically excluded from the spell. Creating death spell and excluding you would do just that. Create death and you can't touch the rune circle.
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>>27306200
On phone so can't draw. It was basically ((small(rune)(target) linked into just (create) which just kept replicating till it covered the target and ate all the mana (or life)
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So, I basically stole Air from >>27305404, I put Project and Push into the same rune, and decided to fuse Weight and Compress to make a new Pull rune. West and East have been scrapped, but not yet replaced, so sorry about that. New additions include animal shit, plant shit and lightning shit. So nuts.
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>>27306225
>>27306257
Why not both? I'm sure with the thinktank power of /tg/ we could come up with a way to combine the functions together.
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>>27306257
Well it was more he put sustain death exclude self. We've been using it this way since thread one as well...
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>>27306339
Yeah fine with me make the exclude water from the firewall into a modifier. Like circle with circle with rune inside.
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>>27306352
This is where that "Null" rune I made comes in handy! I knew we'd be needing something like it!
I think we can solve this nasty issue by just deciding what does what... although, that is an issue in and of itself, really.
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>>27305796
How do you determine what the focus is? Is the focus the rune closest to the absolute center of the outmermost circle for the entire spell?
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>>27306352
>>27306339
Not saying you can't. Just saying what I meant by exclusion. You've also been using if statements since thread one which I never put in, so don't limit yourself by me. I'm only here if someone needs clarification on runemagic 101.
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>>27306386
The focus is the "smallest tier". For UI purposes, make it it the biggest circle amongst the other ones so people can see what it is. It does not have to be in the exact centre no. The Focus is usually the one being most Affected.
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>>27306386
Yep. The "enclosing circle", which is the outermost circle that envelops the whole spell, is basically like the thing that makes it a sentence. You've got all these words, but it's not a sentence yet... this means that the enclosing circle acts as a sort of anchor for determining spacial relationships with other circles. At least, that's how I see it. Now that Mark6 is here, though, he can tell us just how wrong we all are.
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>>27306421
Like that. Now I feel like a dumbass... although, that may be because people have been making sure to put the focus as close to centre as possible. I guess making it centred is just manners for other runecasters when reading your spell.
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>>27306411
OK, I got it now. Thanks based OP
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>27306239 again
Am I doing stoneshield (or stonetrap) right?
((pull[up]~*earth*)#(#self)).
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>>27306482
I would, but alas, I've never worked suptg. I leave it in the hands of greater workers than I.
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>>27306497
Then gimme a sec I will hit it up before I go
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What happens if I pull up down?
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>>27306551
Null spell you fizzle or run out of mana. Also no set target.
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>>27306578
So, to become squashed I should pull up to self and pull down to self. Nice.
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>>27306618
Or simply pull self down fast
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>>27306628
>put circles with "push earth up" everywhere
>planet breaks apart
Directions are OP. How about attract/repel pair with limited distantion? Also, homing projectiles.
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This took a while but I think I worked it right.
Everyone, please tell me what you think it does.
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>>27306718
Goddamn, I've got people wanting relative directions, people wanting cardinal directions and now people wanting no directions at all! Make your damn minds up, /tg/!
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>>27306729
i dont know whats going on in this thread but sounds like large scale air currents circulating globally
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>>27306729
Is that a fucking tornado?
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>>27306733
You can always state that world is flat!
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>>27306783
Yes,that was the idea.
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>>27306729
>>27306783
Oh, wait... no, it's not. It will just contantly move the hot southern air above you north and the cold northern air that's below you south... So... screwing with weather, I guess?
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>>27306729
Wacky windy thingamajigger, that's what I'm reading.
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>>27306861
On second glance, I see a problem. Once the cold air is south and the warm air is north, what happens?
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>>27306883
It no longer meets the parameters and stops being affected. However, because you're basically swapping the air around, it will still loop. It basically just flips the antipodes, really.
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>>27306883
>>27306901
Maxwell daemon, that's what he made.
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>>27306901
My idea was sorta a storm bringer rune, that would slowly bring the conditions for violent weather, into place, and cause a storm/whurlwind in a few hours.
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>>27306943
Except the warm air when it goes north will cool down, no longer being "warm southern air" and just become the same thing as northern air and vice versa. It won't cool one side of the planet and warm the other.
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>>27306988

So, global warming/cooling then?
>>
Challenge for ye all!

Make me a trap that kills people differently based on their weight or height!

(example, fat people get burned, skinny people get frozen, normal people get elctrocuted, ETC...)
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>>27307169
I won't design it, but maybe if we used a combination of "Thought" and "Weight" to see what the victim thought of themselves? Then you'd have to figure out a way to do the rest, though...
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>>27306729

Yeah, cold "upper" North air pulled south, warm "upper" South air pulled North.

So it pretty much wouldn't do anything, because weather systems are huge and I'm pretty sure a small rune circle wouldn't effect a 100km^2 area.

Could make a cool anti-convection rune though with a little tweaking. Might be useful in stopping a volcano if you switched some runes around.
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>>27306729
So does anyone have any ideas on how to improve this?
>>
So I skimmed most of the first thread, is there an agreed upon method of nerfing the whole "master spells are as costly as beginner spells" part? What is the equivalent of mana or so?

Tell me the lore of this so far, not the mechanics
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>>27307169

Hrrm, probably best to start by designing a few mutually exclusive traps which trigger in different weight scenarios and then just cram them together into one big rune circle.
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>>27307353
I was thinking of replacing the "Up/above" runes, with "large" runes
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>>27307404
The accepted consensus now is that we're no longer pulling shit like "when condition x is met, run rune". It was more detrimental to the spirit of the system than helping. This means no "when this rune is touched, do x" bullshit either. Runes are programs and rightly so.
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>>27307481
wha? than how do you create portable runes, or traps?
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>>27307500
By having a regular mechanical trap that places a pre-inscribed stone slab in a set location that happens to complete an incomplete rune on the floor. People were just making up new rules and runes and shit to solve their problems rather than trying to work within the limitations of the system. We nixed it.
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>>27307542
So, the only input required for a rune is that the outer ring is complete, and once it is, the rune starts? I like it!

A mechanical wooden box that unfolds into a rune over time would be a nice trap.
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>>27307481
>>27307500

The better question is how do you activate runes?

Do you just inscribe a rune circle then split it in half? Then when you want to activate it you just reunite the two halves?

Or is it more a feeding mana to activate runes type thing.

Because you could still make traps with mechanical trip systems.
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>>27307597
Runes are activated the minute the enclosing circle is complete. Then we started bandying about crystals and blood magicks. Really, it's to stop all this "runes are switches" shit that was happening, like "When this rune is touched, rune becomes active and does this." or things like "When human touches rune, create large fire but exclude me" and all the other things where people just fucking plucked runes that just so happen to fit perfectly with what they wanted to do and would serve no other purpose than to do that thing or similar things.
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>>27307597
I think once the rune is viable, meaning the outer circle is complete, the rune activates based on ambient mana in the area, which can be augmented by being built on leylines, having enchanted crystals nearby, or by splashing the blood of the rune carver onto the rune.
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>>27307642
So could one just draw the rune on a shield with a piece unfinished and attach it to activate?

How about freshness of the runes influences power
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>>27307687
>Kinetic blast rune
>inscribed on shield
>except for one piece
>smash shield into someone
>press small trigger
>piece clicks into place
MAGE STRONK
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>>27307687
Usually, it's a oneshot effect. If you want prolonged effects, you use the Sustain rune, but right now, that's for an indefinite period of time pulling ambient mana from the surroundings until it's used up. Then it stops. The system is still fresh and there's no general accepted rules yet. We really should sir down and work out the basic of basics at the very least, but eh. EFFORT.
>>
Jeez guys, don't let this die. We can do this! We can refine this shit and make it glorious!
>>
What does the "self" rune refer to? The rune itself, the caster, or whatever object/surface the rune is on? I think that caster is too broad a term for the runes. Making it the rune itself doesn't seem like it would be helpful. I like the idea of a rune referring to whatever it's on, but is this too unruney?
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>>27308075
Well, the general accepted meaning is the caster themselves. I, personally, don't really like runes having a sort of ability to be able to distinguish certain things from the outside world, like having "left" and "right" runes which would change depending on your relative facing. I prefer my runes and their functions to be absolute and abstract, but it's been used so much now, I think it really has to be there. Besides, most magic systems have something for the caster anyway, if nothing else.
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>>27308190
Thanks.

Some self buff runes that I hope parse correctly:
(*push*[self]~increase)
(*pull*[self]~increase)
(*self*~quicken)
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>>27303871

so we're writing in C, not binary
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>>27308377
That "Quicken Self" one there is a bit of a dangerous one. The quicken rune isn't discriminate in how it speeds tgings up, so you'll have all your metabolic processes quickened, too. Food will metabolise faster, you'll use up energy quicker and you'd age rapidly as well. Sure, you'd be faster than your enemies, but it's not without issues, especially a rune as simplistic as that one. You really have to leave as little wiggle room for disaster as you can. As for the other two... letls just say those would make an awful mess.
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>>27308700
add a muscle modifier to self
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>>27308879
That would speed up all of your muscles. ALL of them. You'd need to specifically describe the muscles you wanted sped up. The push and pull would do the same things as before, but with just your muscles.
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>>27308922
so exclude the vital organs and jaw/tongue muscles
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>>27308967
Peristaltic muscles aren't vital, but you won't want them quickened for sure.
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>>27308700
I really love all the stuff the programming/scientific-style camp is coming up with, but this just prompts me to ask something.

How much of this stuff is practical for a normal tabletop game?

Sure, if the entire game was some kind of exercise in runic stuff, like mage duels, it would make sense... but a lot of these seems overblown and complicated for practical player use.

I'm intrigued by the idea of runes for puzzles and to let players design neat designs or engage in something like spellcraft, but a lexicon of hundreds of verbs, nouns, adverbs, modifiers as specific as individual muscle groups to avoid advanced aging when you try to make a haste spell... that just isn't practical.

I'm trying to work out a variant which is a lot fuzzier - basically just verbs and nouns with a few simple modifiers, with certain effects in the rune not explicitly represented in its geometric construction. All these runic circles you guys are coming up with are amazing, but it just seems too complex and time-consuming for a game which doesn't focus solely on that topic, and for working out how much spell effects should cost in terms of time or energy.
>>
This is the sort of uncreative problem solving we're trying to get people to avoid. All of the restraints and restricttions we've put in place are there for a reason. You can't just up and go, "Oh, just slap an 'x' rune in there as an effector/modifier!" I, for one, will not do a muscle rune because then it'll lead people to make runes so they can do things such as isolating certain muscles from the spell, which, incidentally, you can't and shouldn't be able to do. I've said it before: the system is MEANT to be counter-intuitive. It is MEANT to be confusing, confounding and roundabout. It's not about telling reality this is what you want. It's about tricking it into giving it to you. Besides, you quicken everything, but certain muscles... I'm telling you now, the effect will not be as "not lethal" as you're thinking it would be.
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>>27309205
Don't think of it as something the players use. It's basically worldbuilding fluff that may become relevant in a few places ("You find an almost completed magic circle carved into the floor. [mage name here] recognizes most of the runes, and you're quickly able to determine this was the circle for the spell that killed half the village." sort of thing). As a DM you might decorate a few props or maps with circles that do (or did) stuff, which astute players will lover trying to decipher. But don't force the players to build their spells or such.
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>>27309253
That's me, by the way. I'm having to post away from my PC and it's being a little shit.

>>27309205
You misunderstand. We DON'T want runes for things like specific muscle groups. We ARE trying to bring it back to the fuzzy when runes were abstract concepts or absolutes. It's just being marred by people who like the idea, but don't understand the spirit. It's design to both feel and look archaic and arcane. There's a deliberate sense of mysticism we're trying to... well, I say achieve but really at this point, it's "get back". I recommend you go to suptg and read the first 4 threads on this. You'll find those much more paleteable.
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you get twenty points
you buy you runes from this list
(sustain is an affection not a modifier now, if you want a sustained action you use a triangle, but putting sustain on a focus like fire will keep it alive too)
ready?
your goal is to create a safe and comfortable resting place to spend the night at the side of the road
you will be judged on effectiveness and aesthetics
>>
I'd prefer seeing this as a magic contest game than actually incorporating it in the world
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>>27309205
As the guy who created this.

My intention, well one of them, was for my players to actually draw it out every time they wanted to so a spell. Yes, this takes time, but then it's really good roleplay.

If you think of it, any world that has this as their magic system will not have "wizards" or whatever you call them. Because this is so simple, any peasant can pick them up, and since drawing out a rune takes time, it has limited combat capability. So mages wouldn't exist. So I don't expect a player to make a purely rune-focussed PC, it would be stupid.

I am expecting, however, to have murderhobos with a few well used and perfected spells each. Stuff like heal, boil water, make fire, make light. And then have runes swords and weapons for battle. So when you think of it, you won't be drawing runes all the time. You only will when you are confronted with an obstacle normal means may not overcome, then you start thinking and inventing till you make a new spell.
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>>27311089
<create>~([small] earth)
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>>27311089

a "create" within a dome exclusion of water, fire and earth would do the trick. Of course, that would make cooking and making fire inside the circle impossible.
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>>27311552
Could you then prepare runes in advance and activate them later in combat a la >>27307687

Also, I'm surprised no one has made voice activated runes yet. I mean, imagine inscribing/tattooing a sustain/restore life rune on your chest that was activated by shouting "heal".
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>>27311555
so a hill
>>27311572
yeah, a camp is not a ward spell, it needs utility
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>>27311555
>>27311572

Actually, I think it would be possible to make a "fortification bomb" or "bunker grenade" by having a glyph for "create large earth" followed by a "exclude earth" normal-sized dome. You'd get a windowless, doorless dome of earth around the glyph. Throw it down at your feet and you'll have a bunker.
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>>27311580
>Could you then prepare runes in advance and activate them later in combat
Of course you can. It all depends on how the runes are activated. In my universe it is different to what /tg/ has decided is accepted for them so it would differ from setting to setting.

>Also, I'm surprised no one has made voice activated runes yet
That would require if-then statements which I'm personally not a fan of and which seems to have fallen out of favour with /tg/. Although, with if-then statements it is completely possible.
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>>27311612

You could just use the kinetic energy of a shout as the activation energy of the glyph. No if-statements required.
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>>27311619
You could. In my setting it is energy in, energy out. So however much energy you put in, that's how much energy you get out. So a shout would not have that much kinetic energy to impart.
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>>27311676

>In my setting it is energy in, energy out

What's the point of runes at all, then? I mean, it's easier to just make a fire than to collect the energy needed to power the glyph to make a fire.
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>>27311683
Perhaps, unless it's been a wet day. And you can't use energy to create water now can you? I'm fudging it a bit, clearly, but since you can create rock, move air, make a golem, lots of things, it is useful. In my setting, I don't want magic to be the be all and end all of everything. I want it to be a complement to science and technology.

But that is purely my universe. However you want to power them, go for it. Go nuts!
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>>27311683
The way everyone else is using it the spell chugs along on ambient mana or power source. You just need starter energy.
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>>27311089
>(sustain is an affection not a modifier now, if you want a sustained action you use a triangle, but putting sustain on a focus like fire will keep it alive too)

Uuhhhhh... sustain was always an effector. It's never been anything put. Look at the original campfire spell for an example. Man, this is why we need to hash out all the basic syntax and all that shit. People keep getting confused and we don't have a universally accepted method, meaning some people read and make runes differently to how another person does. If we're going to be making a game out of this or, hell, I could see even a quest thread where instead of rolls, anons make rune arrays, we REALLY need to get some formalised rules down.
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>>27305898
Using these runes

Hopefully a regeneration shitscribble that triggers when health is at half and will regen to half health. Thoughts? (centeral rune painted for ease of reading)
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>>27312869
Sustain is an effector, not a modifier. Look at the campfire spell in (http://imgur.com/a/iIWfw) for an example and half is a modifier, not a focus. A focus is something akin to a subject within a sentence. It's sort of like tryting to make "a" or "the" a subject; it just doesn't work. Also, exclusion works differently. It's what the spell IGNORES. So, if anything, it would STOP giving you life energy when you hit half, because half life energy is excluded.
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>>27302737
Apparition rune, nice
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>>27312786
it had been used more as a modifier than as an effector since and I wanted to make clear it had gone back to the beginning for balance reasons
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I think I'm going to modify this to use squares and more geometric lines and have it be the magic system for the dwarves in my setting. I was going to use a more circuit based system but I think this might work better.
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guys, is it true that our goal is making and completing an effective version of this? because i'm really wanting to see something like this used in an actual game, made by a player.
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>>27313106
whoops, wrong pic
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>>27312987
Only by people who haven't had a completely firm grasp of the mechanics. In all the other arrays made by anons in places like the first few threads, it was used as an effector. I'm not sure where and it started being used as a modifier, but given we have an actual example in the imgur page, we can at least safely deduce that using it as a modifier is either wrong or has a different effect than making the affected focus be sustained.

I'm thinking I'm probably going to sit down and just scour through all of the previous thread in an attempt to codify more of the system, so we're all on the same page.
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>>27313118
>>27313106

I'm trying to parse these as proper glyph programs. It's working, OP!
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>>27313106
>>27313118
Also, yeah... That sort of shit WAS /tg/'s goal, but we've been hampered by both a lack of accepted rules and functions and a schism in thought on how runes should work. We'd need to all get together and hash that out before we can start to get to arrays with similar complexity to things like that. I, for one, would love to both craft and see arrays of such maddening complexity.
>>
BTW, been thinking of an aspect of the setting. If we have runes being the language of the universe, we could still have competing schools of magic and different symbology. How? Well, while the runes would be derived from the platonic ideal concepts of whatever they signify, they don't perfectly correspond to the ideal. A bit of error sneaks in during the process of understanding and transcribing a concept in rune form. The rune is still useful for casting, but the less "pure" it is, the weaker the effect it can create. This could mean that "high-concept" runes like DEATH would be the hardest to grasp properly, because they consist of a myriad little sub-concepts that you have to comprehend properly in order to make the rune correctly.
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>>27313166
We've been working on it. That's the point of these threads.

>>27313174
Again, I love the smell of neo-platonism in the morning.
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>>27313118
the inscriptions ont he inside of the rings could signify what the runes use as power source
I don't know what purpose the lines between circles in different tiers could have though
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>>27313174
well, this gust makes sense. have a basic table of elements that relate to each other. some oppose others, easy. the one that would make sense would be the magic chart from "Might and magic" (which i cannot find a link of, so i will make it real quick)
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>>27313174
>>27313287
That's actually kinda what I'm trying to do, but I'm not doing very well at it, unfortunately. I can just see some apprentice mage getting shouted out by his superior, because he misscribed the "death" rune and now everyone who dies is becoming zombies instead of immortality, like he wanted.

>>27313226
I know we have. But it can't be denied it's slow going because not everyone can come to an agreement on proper syntax and shit like that. Some people are using certain runes as an affector, others are using that rune as a modifier... others still use that very rune as the focus, like the one above that uses half as a focus. Half... half of what? You see where we're hitting roadblocks.
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>>27313287
here, i slapped it together in 5 seconds.

top 3 in triangle: order (Creation, sustain, Destruction)
right below that, the top half of the star:
top: Light
right: air
left: water
bottom half of star:
bottom: darkness
left: earth
right: fire

absolute bottom: forces of chaos, currently unknown.
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>>27313360
diametrically opposed forces (light/darkness, fire/water, air/earth chaos/order) work much like opposing magnets, repelling each other.

i imagine something like this would be used to make specific dispell circles.
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>>27313352
if you make a mistake in runeschool your teacher shouts at you until you cry and describes in excruciating detail what would have happened if you had activated it
Although, if runes are learned in a school then everybody only learns the useful straightforward ones, there's no reason why a first year student wouldn't know the 'create' rune, it sorts of kills power levels
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>>27313360
That's just the Qabbalistic Tree of Life. A bit more OC would be nice.
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>>27313389
well, it's a platform to start from
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>>27313389
I was thinking. If we are to use exclude like mark wants I really think we need to be able to use exclude as a modifier as well. So a circle inside a circle used as a modifier.

(Fire(create)(-(water)-)) create fire that excludes water as opposed to (fire(create))=>(water) which is create fire without affecting water.
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>>27313166
Its still possible it will just require you to make multiple glyphs and combine them into one glyph.
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>>27313552
Can you provide a more practical example of this? Fire excluding water and fire not affecting water are extremely similar
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>>27313577
Fire excluding water from ex a. Would prevent water from affecting it. Exb. Would just make a fire that does not alter water
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>>27313577
Example a would not be put out with water wile example be would
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>>27313608
>>27313620
See, this is basically the reason for the null rune. I'm thinking fire as the focus link in some way with a null water, either through exclusion, modification or affection. I'm not exactly pro at how it would work just yet as we haven't really delved into the possibilities and interactions of both the null rune and exclusion in detail to firmly deduce how different they are, but this sort of thing was along my lines of thinking when I made it. It's kind of multipurpose. I'm thinking that null can either be used as a form of not gate or "nullify x" depending on how it's used.
>>
>>27313685
Ah better idea that clears the problem up nicely. And exclude can stay as is.


We need a few more runes then. No a lot but something to be able to tell the rune its power source. You no as opposed to stating it. So you could say what its supposed to use other than mana blood or crystal. So how if you needed to use energy from the fire for it.
>>
>>27313685
Hell a single absorb time coupled to fire and energy could then be coupled to inbue mana energy to convert fire to mana for use. Would probably give shitty amounts or mana though.
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>>27313759
Absorb rune.* not absorb time
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>>27313685
I am way too tired to explore that. Need more coffee.

Null to me would cancel out the energies or concept of that Rune. or maybe ANTI-rune. double circle still excludes that subject from the whole spell.
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>>27313790
OH WAIT.

Null = nullify right?

So what if the null rune does the same thing to verbs (affectors) that exclusionary circles does to nouns (subjects)?
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>>27313759
So, any runes that we need then? It seems we need utility runes or something, so we've got convert, absorb... maybe a fuse? Hell, if we're going this far, maybe instead of spells we could hash out some runes to make alchemy possible, such as "absord nearby mana, then convert earth to water" or some shit like that. After all, an open-ended system like this could do a lot more than just fireballs and things that people are doing right now. There are more schools of magic than what we're tinkering with.
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>>27313790
>>27313806
I'm think null could have multiple functions depending on whether it's used as an affector or a modifier, to make things simple. Between that and exclusion, I think we'll be made. Anything else I'm hesitant to do because those 3 should provide enough to create workarounds for what we want to do, it'll just require some lateral thinking.
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>>27313822
Absorb would work as convert though if you use it with inbue.

But I just feel we need a way to write in what energy source to use if not using the big 3
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>>27313822
Yeah I had an idea in a past thread that involved arrays that converted kinetic energy/etc into ambient mana to power a bigger spell in the area.
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>>27313878
Turning earth into water would waste a shitload of mana
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>>27313894
Nah dawg, let's say yo' wizzad ass wants ta do somefin real fresh. You gonna need a lotta juice yeah? Mebbe more than whats in de area, say? Easy! Get yo' thug-ass gangsta to beat the fuck outta dis here array, it takes da force of da blows, turns it inta mana! Den be'fo you know it- ZAP MOTHAFUCKA
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>>27313947
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>>27313992
Exactly.

For realsies though, you could use that same array to convert different kinds of energy into ambient mana. Fire rune? Build a little campfire over the circle, power up the area for the big ritual the next day.
>>
>>27314052
Forest fires become hotspots for wizards wanting free energy. Also works as a extinguisher.
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>>27314074
Too many wizards doing this creates new leylines, throwing the natural balance of energies out of whack.
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>>27314086
Best to specify a target to dump the energy into so you don't get sacked nature.
>>
So, what runes are we needing then? As I've said, I really don't want to make runes that do the same job as another, only slightly different so like RuneFencer pointed out, Absorb>Imbue would function as convert, eliminating the need for a single rune for it.
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>>27314137
Absorb wold work. Afterwards just make new glyphs and link them
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>>27314162
I would also like to work on a way to link separate spell circles (ie link operations successively). Would allow maximum amount of aestheticism as well.
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>>27314325
Simply put each circle that activated at the same time in its own sphere. Say I have a light glyph its completed and ready to go. Now say I drew four glyphs around it that absorb heat (fire) and had the target for inbue be the light rune glyph. I could either activate them one at a time then the light glyph or put a large circle around the whole thing and make it so they activate last and start giving it a trickle charge
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>>27314325
Shit what happens if my move energy runes activate and the entire thing forms the symbol for an outer rune?
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>>27314379
There can only be one 'subject' per spell though. So yeah, Chain lightning involves many operations, but you're still working with one thing- Lightning.

What if you want to do a lightning bolt, have it strike a rod, use that electricity to infuse a crystal, then use the crystal as a LIGHTNING TURRET? Or... something.
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>>27314423
Exactly the one subject is the original. Add the power glyphs to the last circle as advanced modifiers.
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>>27314423
Then add flowery bits and designs to it so you don't get sued by another wizard for stealing his glyph work.
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>>27314453
>>27314469
I mean I want link three SEPARATE spells, not make a multi-tiered single circle.
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>>27314487
Make all three then place target in the center of them with a line from all to target ? That way each activates on its own then all go to the same place?
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Imma post some interesting and relevant images.
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>>27314590
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>>27314607
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>>27314624
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>>27314642
This new timer system is odd.
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>>27314665
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>>27314682
And that's it for now. Anything useable in this? spark any idears?
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>>27314734
Yeah I will post later gtg at work. Make new thread plls
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Awwwwww, shit, son! Do y'all want another rune guide? You know you do! Shit's been added, fxied and cleaned up to look as nice as Paint can get stuff to look! If there turns out to be any other direly needed runes, I'll try to put them in for the next one. In the meantime, go! Explore your new possibilities!
>>
>>>27315293

New thread!
>>
>>27312963
The point WAS to stop at half health. There wasn't a 'full' rune and I don't want people exploding from too much life energy.

And thanks for the syntax tips.


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