On the way home, we visit several sites where we saw runework- Near the school, the shopping district....."All gone." Rider comments, looking at me. "What does it mean?""If they're faded it means someone's running out of time. Either us or Avenger.""So Avenger's runes are gone." Rider says, thinking. "But they just faded? And what's with that skirt?"We renter the house, and tell them what happened."So it was at the campsite.... Avenger's work?""Apparently. They must've been ready to abandon the camp as soon as they were finished with it though, and since it was such an obvious beacon...."I get nods from around the table. "The real question is what it all means." Ilya says, lost in thought.>?
>>29311485>Pin the locations on a map, see if it matches a pattern.Well, hello.
>>29311485Might need to ask Caster for some help figuring this out, if our resident mages can't figure it out.Provided we can contact her, of course.Otherwise, I propose a totally mundane method of checking out any recent lists of missing persons in the nearest police box/station.Gotta try to identify who the skirt belongs to at least, although it might be quite a long shot.
>>29311485Welcome backNow then- this is bad news. Time's running out. With how many runs there are and that we've looked into them some, if we had their locations could we mark them and see how these things are disappearing?Like from a radius or in a spiral fashion?I'd second asking for Caster's help.
>>29311485Check with Rin; were the marks on leylines or other magically significant places? One place the marks had in common is that they were all on places that see lots of traffic; could that be significant?Fess up AC-Guy, you took out all of 4chan last night, didn't you?
We grab paper, drawing up a rough map of the city. Rin immediately sets to work marking all the locations we saw for the markings, and we begin looking over what we've seen."Is there a pattern?" Sakura asks, slowly."There's something." Ris responds, frowning over it. "I'm seeing something, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at.""How so?" Saber leads, looking at her."When we looked at them, these ones we decided almost looked like binding runes-" She gestures to some others. "Looked more like wards. And the ones down by the harbor and at the Train station don't look like either of them.""So what does that mean?" I ask. "Let's focus on what we do know. What's going on with that?""I don't know. They don't quite make sense, laid out like this." Rin responds, looking at the map. "I'm overlooking something. I HAVE to be.">?
>Overlooking something.Her weakness is really obvious fine details, right?"Rin, maps are flat.""The Earth isn't."
>>29312196I'm thinking we should fess up with Shirou reacting to the forest clearing even way before this day in particular.>HarborKirei was found hanging around there before his death, right? Could be his.Unless I'm remembering things correctly?>Train StationNo idea why it's neither binding nor warding.Messes up with the too pattern since it's also populated/well travelled like some of the places we visited (Bridge, Shopping District, School)Avenger might be rusing us from re-exploring the clearing again, I dunno.
>>29312196Wait, there were different types of markings- what if we separated each type of marking- would that make a difference?Also, what's the major difference between binding and warding- that change might be something to take into account?
Sorry, tangent.Did we just write off the possibility that Avenger has access to other Servants? Cause if he's got Gilles, then that explains why he's not hunting servants for mana
Also, weren't we freaking out about missing women at the close of last session?
"The train station and the harbor bother me. I mean, it's supposed to be high traffic areas we saw all these right?""Well, no. All the binding ones were in high traffic areas. The warding ones almost seem to be steering away.""And the train station is high traffic. It's the way most people come and go from town. But it's not binding or warding.""So what could that mean?"".... I don't- Rin. Maps are flat."There's a profound silence as everyone at the table turns to stare at me. Rin contents herself with a flat 'What.""No, I mean, you were talking about placement earlier. The Earth is more curved than the table we're drawing on."There's a sudden look of comprehension on her face as she begins to draw notes and notations on the map, calculations and guesswork. "Alright, that actually makes some sense. If we look at it like this, we have two magic boundaries. The one on the inside is set to draw magic in, and the ones on the outside are meant to push it away.""All over town?"She nods. "Which is weird. The one would just be getting in the other's way.....">?
>Completely insane theory time.Alright, so Avenger drew the magic in first, and then pushed it away. My theory is that he used the kidnapped women (see the multi-grail theory from the last thread) to make the seeds for more grails, and then used the magic to help send them on their way. I mean, he put the weird marks on the in and out locations for the city.He's setting up the sequel, and we're too late to stop him.
>>29313141So its being drawn in, but also pushed out...Two ideas:1. The inner circle is drawing from some specific source within it's boundaries, and the magic-repelling circle is there to prevent outside interference or contamination2. The opposing attraction/repulsion is designed to create magical turbulence of some kind. Also, are their areas of effect fully spherical? Maybe if we look at them in three dimensions something will become apparent.
>>29313141Maybe whatever he's doing needs precise amounts of magic, and used the second barrier to do that. Is there a way to check when the seals were placed?
>>29313141Would it really? The one inside- what if it's gathering magic- or something about it inside and the one outside is keeping out other magic- like a quarantine?
>>29313141>>293133653. The intention is to create a 'void' of magic between the two.
>>29313141Where's it centered?I have a horrible feeling it's designed to distribute corrupted grail energies all over Fuyuki.
>>29313141What's in between the 'magic push' and 'magic pull' zone? A zone devoid of magic, or saturated with one?
>>29313141Presumably the primary reason to do this is if you would benefit from there being a null zone as a buffer between the inner boundary and everything outside the outer boundary.Could be acting as anything from insulation (whether to try and keep magical energy from leaking out or to keep that escaping energy from drawing outside attention) to a sort of widespread magical decontamination chamber, or any other number of things.From our encounter with Avenger and his pickpocket helper:>"My sister touched a weird marking at the mall, some kind of graffiti." She says, scared. "She said it looked like one at her school, student council business." She starts shaking. "When she touched it, she started getting sick-"Were the marks at the school/mall warding or binding ones? If the former, presumably the sickness was a defense mechanism to keep people from tampering. If the latter, the sickness was a result of the binding itself, and probably Avenger-mud related, judging by how he wiped her memory.Maybe worth seeing if that girl's sister has recovered, or gotten worse now that the marks are gone, using our concern for a fellow schoolmate to justify our asking.
>>29313427A ring of saturation, with an inner vacuum and an outer buffer zone devoid of magic. I could MS paint this as soon as I finish my vidya session.
>>29313365>>29313373>>29313394>>29313407>>29313407>>29313421>>29313421>>29313427"It's not just pushing out magic by the sigils, it would be making the area inside magically dead. All of it, including the mana he would be trying to gather." Rin responds shaking her head. "And even if it worked like you were thinking it would be more efficient to just create some sort of container with a set capacity. This is a thousand times more complex than that.""So do we have ANY idea what he's doing?" Rider asks, looking between us.""Actually, he might have already done it." Rin replies, staring at the map. "We just have no idea what he might have done or why. But knowing that it's Avenger...."The table has a tense silence around it.>?
>>29313793Is he trying to make a kind of tension trap or something? I get the feeling that this is some kind of setup where when one or the other side collapses, something catastrophic might happen.Wait, how many days has it been since the war started? How many days until we're supposed to actually have to deal with Angry Manjew in the canon story? The fact that these things are fading and he's doing nothing to manage their upkeep disturbs me.
>>29313882Addendum: What happens if Angry Manjew is summoned in an area devoid of magic?
>>29313793>>29313906...It'd be incredibly amusing if this is all Avenger trying to pull an Archer on himself.
>>29313882>>29313906>>29313968I've already stated my theory. >>29313217 I'm just thinking about why, what was it, twenty girls or something vanished? What the hell is he going to use twenty grail cores for?
It's all sitting right here in front of me. I can tell by the way the narrative is going that we have literally everything we need to make a large plot leap, and I'm just too fucking stupid to put two and two together.It irritates me to no end.
>>29313793Didn't Avenger tell us he wanted to limit the damage he was going to cause? Like, he wanted to complete his evil plan while being as not-evil as possible. The interfering boundaries would make sense if the sucking field is Blood Fort Andromeda on a larger scale and the blocking field is designed to keep it within a certain boundary.As to what his actual plan is we're in the dark as ever.
>>29314044Are you me? I feel like I've done all I can and am just waiting for someone with a higher WIS to show up
>>29314078So the sigils are just to keep his actual shenanigans as efficient and localized as possible? Seems like a reasonable theory. If it takes AC-Guy another twenty minutes to do the next post, we're probably on the right track.
>>29314044AC-Guy has confirmed that someone came up with an easy win strategy early in the quest, but nobody voted on it, so he ignored it.The same thing is happening now; if only one or two people stumble on the right answer, it doesn't mean shit. We have to actually vote for it to make it count.Unless, of course, we go back through the threads, take every idea that works with in-character knowledge, and throw them at Rin and Ilya to see what sticks.The problem there is that 'in-character knowledge' equates to 'almost nothing' for Shirou.
>>29314044>>29314102I think the real problem is AC-Guy is running this on advanced metaphysics and nobody here plays on his level.If it makes you feel better, I'm only PRETTY sure I know what he's on about.
>>29314078>>29314134Except the sigils are gone.
>>29314190Then HELP US.
>>29314170I'm about to go to bed early, wake up in the morning, and reread the entire quest with a legal pad and make notes like a schizophrenic on a bender until something clicks.
You know, I think Sequel Guy is probably right. We just have no possible way of knowing that in character.
>>29314190Hmmm, maybe reading Final Crisis will jog my 5th demension
So the runes are designed to disperse the prana without actually using any of it.What was Satsuki's RM's effect again?
>>29314257It drains and dissipates mana in the surrounding environment.
>>29314134Efficient is a much better way to describe what I'm suggesting.>>29314190Point me in the direction of what you're seeing; I need to jog my associative memory.>>29314195We killed the vampire that was central to his plans. Someone on Team Avenger said they'd have to do it the hard way after all.
Is he trying to turn those girls into batteries? Is he cheating the system and bypassing the need for the death of heroes by making these girls into seeds and then making hotspots of prana around the city where they'll charge faster than normal. The fading sigils means all the energy is just about done being distributed.I dunno, just another idea for the dart board.
>>29314257>>29314286What a shame we don't know this in-character.
>>29314201>>29314308I am specifically banned from helping the players because I've actually SEEN notes.Metagaming, yo.I'm just saying I'm having a hell of a time figuring it out for myself, and I KNOW shit.
>>29314348Yes, but what we (or rather Rin) *can* extrapolate is the effect this has on spiritual beings. Such as Servants or, say, the Greater Grail.What happens to dead Servants when there isn't a Greater Grail left for them to return to?
Its clearly unsolvable, so lets just stop thinking, declare that a witch did it, and go punch Avenger and tell him he's not living his life correctly.This is the best solution I've got, sorry guys.
Can we just fucking project Avalon already? Then we can just tank whatever he throws at us and nuke him with Excalibur.Seriously, we've been sitting on the damn thing for what, thirty threads now? Forty?
Well I have no idea and we've been flailing around for ages on this. Unless we get something to tip us off I vote we just try to sword the problem away.In character Shirou isn't exactly equipped to deal with this unless the answer is sword anyway.
>>29314370Darn, so much for that hope.All right >>29314223, your job is to wake up early enough so that the thread is still here and to post anything that comes to the surface. Use qtg if the thread's 404'd.>>29314400They would disappear as the energy sustaining them dissipates, similar to destroying the lesser grail.
>>29314432I love it. Let's do this, only with swords
I still want to know if anything of interest was in between the two barriers, and if anything of interest was inside the inner one.
>I really wish I could give you guys a hint or something.>But I really can't give hints without ruining everything, given how interconnected everything is.
>>29314506Write more, taunt less. You can throw us a bone later if you're that desperate to. You're actually amused by this, I can tell.
Goddamit, does anyone have those annotated notes?
>>29314506TELL US >>29314477
>>29314506Don't even act fucking coy with us. You are enjoying every second of this. You're squirming in your chair and trying as hard as you can to not giggle aloud you're so amused by how angry we are. Every QM is a sadist at heart.
>>29314545>It's not as amusing as you might think, because we're basically teetering over the edge of all of the awesome shit leading up to the finale all happening.>It's like, you know that giant climb at the beginning of a roller coaster? Basically you guys are sitting at the top, looking for the button that sends you over the edge.>And I'm here staring waiting for you to hit the fucking button so I can do all the shit I've been setting up and foreshadowing for forty threads. Right now I'm regretting hiding the button so well, because I can't tell you where the button is without killing the suspense and sense of accomplishment.>>29314585>>29314477>Not really, no. You technically had that bike-repair conversation with Gil in that zone, but that's the only remotely noteworthy thing.
>>29314652It feels more like the button is just located on a dashboard covered with fake buttons.we could randomly press buttons all day and we wouldn't find it
>>29314432I like that mentality, it'll take us to good places.Has anyone tried taking the Fuyuki City map and actually putting points where AC-Guy has told us the runes were? Maybe that would be helpful. It would probably be easier to spot things if we had a visual representation rather than a description of a visual representation.
>>29314652Can you tell us if it's the map? Should we be focusing on this or looking elsewhere?
>>29314732Well, lemme try then. No promises on accuracy though.>Legend:Red O - sucks magicBlue O - pushes magicGreen X - neither binding nor wardingSmall Black X - Fuyuki disappearancesAnyone else remember what other places had the runes? Help?I recall someone else did something like this before, but it had two runes near the Church for some reason.Also, it was a miracle that we were even able to detect enough of that bland magic through TWO runes (School and Shopping District) that we were able to arrive at the area with Avenger's trap.I could see why Shirou concluded that said trap wasn't really tailored for him, at least.
Are both of the barriers still up? He could be trying to capture some specific mana, so the second whatever he wants hits the center zone, the outside barrier goes down. It could also be why he wanted the vampire, if it could drain the mana.
>>29314779Wait, are both Sakura's and Rin's houses in the magically-dead zone?
>>29314690>The metaphor is imperfect, because half the buttons would do something. You've already debated the correct button. You're just justifiably afraid of some of the buttons because they might cause the ride to explode and kill everyone.>This metaphor has at this point, gotten away from us entirely.>>29314745>The map is one of several places you could be getting clues and information from. You don't actually NEED the whole picture to know the correct course of action here, and the map, if you were reading the clues correctly, might get you through.>If you need more though, look for it. Do something else.
>>29314825>No, some of the binding runes were near both, suspected due to laylines.
>>29314831The problem of there being many buttons but only one "correct" one remains
>>29314853Can we get a complete list of currently known markings? I think >>29314779 might be missing a couple, but I don't remember where
Maybe the prana void could be used to better track more magically powerful beings and Avenger used it to steal latent Magi or something?
>>29314831Hey, AC-guy, I do have a quick question. Kirei's body- was that ever found?Secondly, have we, at any point, ever met Kirei and Avenger at the same time?I'm a bit curious.
Observant guy here, with a philosophical observation.When Alexander couldn't untie the knot, he cut it in half.Let's ask Rin and Best Sister if either family has something like an ace in the hole for something like this.Jewel Sword up in this, wreck Team Evil with the second magic.
>>29314910Alexander could do that because he held powerCompared to what we're up against, we hold little power
>>29314910So what you're saying is, instead of trying to puzzle out the answer, we should Shirou up and beat it out of Avenger?
>>29314902>According to Lancer, the Kirei's body was destroyed by Zouken. And yes, kinda. Kirei was inside bleeding on the carpet while Avenger and Gil assulted the Church the first time, and you spoke to him while Cain was fighting Avenger outside.
>>29314902>Kirei might have been Avenger all alongSQUAD BROKEN.
>>29314931That's why we need the infinite prana generation of the Jewel Sword.Or the incredible defensive capabilities of Avalon.Or Unlimited Blade Works.Or ALL OF THEM AT ONCE.
>>29314910>When Alexander couldn't untie the knot, he cut it in half....Hey, what have we been arguing about that's tied to itself for some inexplicable reason?
>>29314957And then Avenger pulls holy grail bullshit out of his ass and kills us and everyone we care about.But maybe I'm thinking about this wrong... I'm thinking like a normal person, not like Shirou, I should be considering more Shirou-ish paths to take, like in F/SN when suicidal bravery was often what was necessary to stay alive
>>29314988You know what helped there?AVALON.
>>29314936I'm saying that we should stop pissing about and start grabbing the biggest guns we can find, because we're around the corner from a boss fight.Seriously, we should be 'contracting' Rin AND Sakura AND Ilya (though I wouldn't try and swing that last one due to inevitable shitstorm) while grabbing a jeweled sword and trying to find Avalon.Or, if we wanted to end the war right now, we just rule-breaker ourselves and watch the ensuring clusterfuck unfold.
When was the last time we slept? Cause maybe Merlin can drop us a hint.
>>29315009>rule-breaker ourselves and watch the ensuring clusterfuck unfold.You know...when you think about it, this has like a 50/50 chance of going completely wrong or completely right.
>>29315009We already found Avalon. We know EXACTLY where it is. We just need to Project it to get it out.
>>29315043Do we have time for a two-hour snooze? Not a full night's rest, just enough time to get in touch with him, search through our thoughts, and see if our subconscious sticks things together.
>AC-Guy @ArmoredQuest 1m>Holy -SHIT-, Observant Guy.worry.jpg
>>29314910>>29314958>>29315009I'm getting an idea.
>>29314958Us and Avenger.
Ok, we know that there are runes set up to disperse prana in the city, and that other runes of unknown design are set up at what are presumably the most active public access/egress points in Fuyuki.
>>29315074>>29315092welpso much for avalon
>>29315046I vote for thisIt's insane, exceedingly dangerous, and most likely won't succeedA perfect Shirou plan in other words
>>29314910Yeah, fuck it, lets just follow Broskander's example and cut the fucking mystery in half. We are clearly failing to untie it.
Posting merlin hints>"Right then, the sheath needs a sword, right? that's part of why the curse ins there, but luckily you seem to have adapted well to it." He hesitates. "A mite too well actually. I wonder if you're what I intended to receive the gift." He sighs and shakes his head. "I suppose it's too late for such concerns. Listen, Lock and Key, Sword and Sheath. To succeed, you first need to fail and destroy the source of your Shadow, and kill yourself. Do you understand?">"Oh, so he put a memory block to try and keep you from being too preoccupied with tragedy. Whole mess of good that did for you.">He leans in as though examining something about me. "So that's it then? You've somehow managed to trigger the link he set within Avalon? Meddling god-damned wizard. Oh well, I suppose I can't complain if he's helping me along this much."Also >"Dear Christ, she hasn't told you anything, has she?"Somebody knows something. Maybe its saber and about the end of the 4th war, unless we did that already.
>>29315134Damage it just enough to get someone to tell us something they shouldn't. We need to shake the hornet nest a little.
>>29315147We need angry Shirou having a private interrogation discussion with Saber. She's been dodging us for basically the whole quest. She knows something.
We're making one of the Classic Blunders: Getting caught up in figuring out the "Why" rather than the "What". I'm with observant guy, we don't need to know exactly what Avenger is planning, we need to get the biggest guns we can and load them with high-explosive rounds.I vote for tabling discussion of Avenger's plans and moving on to finding out how to fuck them up. Let's start with "Rin, what's the most powerful weapon your family has? How about you, Sakura, do the Matou have anything we could use against Avenger?"
>>29315147RIGHTLET'S DO THINGWe should talk to Saber about stuff until she tells us what she knows
>>29315147let's simplify this shit- Avenger saved shirou by using the grail. What if the sword is the grail and it's locked away, thanks to avalon?Right now avenger has avalon, or a link to it and he's trying to get the grail out?
>>29315181We need any and all severance magicks and devices we can find. No need to kill and destroy. We just need to be able to rip things apart and let the constituent parts squirm alone until they squeal and tell us what we need to know.
>>29315205>>29315181>>29315188OK, so we're gonna go grab the big guns and a stack of rule breaker arrows, and interrogate saber while we're walking?
>>29315230>>29315251We work on both of these.
>>29315230I guess so?Let's just hope this doesn't make everything go bad. It really does kind of feel as though AC Guy's given us thousands of possible solutions with only one actually being viable
>>29315279At the same time, AC Guy is not the kind of person to throw us off a cliff because we started with our left foot instead of our right. I'm wagering we get one, maybe two BIG WARNING FLAGS something is going horribly wrong before we commit to a bad end.
>>29315205>>29315230Actually, I just realized that we actually have guns, and HE ammo to go with them. The joys of having Keery as a father. I actually meant that metaphorically, we need to bring the Tohsaka super magic to bear, along with the Einzbern and the Matou. These are the practicing heirs to the three Grail families, all capable.And sure, let's try to project the sheathe.
>>29315307we'll just assume the big warning flag is avenger bluffingor a distractionor somethingwhere is taiga?
>>29315279Well when we asked our one question, he said we had come up with three possible ways to break the setting, but nobody's gone digging for them yet.
>So is there a plan?>>29315279>It's not a 'one viable solution' thing. It's more like 'there's a couple of ways to win, and there's several ways to get there/figure that out.
>>29315357>The thee plans presented to me went like this:>>Plan one.>Involved fixing/replacing the Grail. There is a way, and if you found it you're well on the way to an easy victory.>>Plan two.>A particularly creative use of Rule Breaker. Not going to specify beyond the broken Phantasm idea isn't the right one.>>Plan three.>Also know as the 'reverse major mistake' involves killing yourself at an appropriate juncture. Limited utility, but proper execution could lead to undoing a solid bad-end.
>>29315394WE CAN'T.THAT HASN'T BEEN AN OPTION THIS ENTIRE TIME. EVERYONE IS IGNORING YOU FOR A REASON.
>>29315369I'm seeing that we collect armaments and have a loaded discussion with Saber, along with projecting Avalon. We've been blowing off doing that last thing for a long time.
>>29315373Like I said, we've got the three Grail family heirs. We should be using this to our advantage.>>29315394We've tried before, I'm nearly certain.
>>29315369Currently it looks like Attempt to project Avalon, talk to saber, and go get the big guns.
>>29315369Yeah, prepare big guns and talk to Saber.Pull out every overpowered piece of weaponry we can without blowing our brains out while trying to extract whatever information Saber is holding from us.I thinkAlso wonder where Taiga is and hope she hasn't been kidnapped again because no one wants that to happen again
>>29315424Why not. What evidence do you have that projecting Avalon is not possible?>>29315431Pretty sure we never did any such thing. Or if we did, we tried once and gave up.
>>29315461Uh, the fact that we never had it, Avenger does?Why do you think 'Rule breaker ourselves' is the fucking nuclear option? It cuts us off from AVENGER, which is the only thing keeping us both alive.The reason Shirou in Canon could project Avalon is because it was a part of him for several years. This was not the case with this Shirou.
>>29315512It has never been confirmed that Avenger possess Avalon.
>>29315512Do you think Rule Breaker-ing Avenger instead of ourselves would yield a different effect?
Random stuff from the ebook>Why can't the servants sense me when I'm in a box? Did you give me an enchantment or something?>"They can't sense you because you think you're hidden. Honestly, you don't even need the box for that, you just need to really strongly desire not to be found while not thinking about your own existence. You, more than most, are exactly who you want to be.">"Also, why is 'belief' a a big thing for us? Why the hell should we be able to... accomplish Magecraft or whatever, just by *believing* in whatever we need or is convenient?">"How do you go from 'Has avalon' + 'Makes swords' to 'Belief makes things happen.' ">"To be fair, you're cheating. You shouldn't even be alive, but then I nudged things. And then other people nudged things, and now everything all confused.Also 400+ pages of single space text
>>29315542Would rule-breaking the same person have a different effect? No, I don't think it really will.That's probably the death-threat Archer had over Avenger when they blew up the Matou house.
>>29315582But we've already been hit with Rule Breaker, Archer used it to break our connection with Saber.
>>29315689He used on ON SABER.
From AC-Guy's Twitter.>I am now convinced every one of my players is holding a different piece of the puzzle and not sharing notes.Alright, in light of this let's just see all our crazy theories and facts in one list and see how many of them are actually incompatible. I'll put an 'X' next to the ones we're reasonably sure are true.>Shirou is a Demon.>Dream Guy is Merlin X>Kirei is still Alive.>Avenger is behind the kidnappings X>Sakura has babby problems X>Avenger was building multiple Grail Cores.>Avenger was apparently sending magic out of town.>Avenger wanted a Vampire for some reason X>>Given the circumstances, I'm lead to believe ANY vampire would work.>Cain isn't dead, but off-screen.>Avenger and Shirou are the same person.>Bazett is sick, can't be cured normally X>Bazett is still alive.>Sakura doesn't have the Grail pieces X>The Grail is Evil XXXXXXXXXXXXXX>Grail Mud everywhere.
>AC-Guy @ArmoredQuest 16m>I am now convinced every one of my players is holding a different piece of the puzzle and not sharing notes.THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE IS AVALON AND I AM SHARING IT QUITE FUCKING LOUDLY THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>29315754So here's my new, unified theory for what's up:>Avenger is blackmailing Kirei.>Avenger got to mage guy who helped Bazett and Kirei summon Lancer.>Mage guy attacks and poison Bazett, Kirei gets leverage over her by helping to heal.>Lancer's now indirectly working for Kirei and therefore Avenger.>Avenger/Gilgamesh have apparently been allied since the last war.>At the end of the last war, Shirou made a wish, and it turned him into Avenger.>Something clearly didn't go right, because we saw a copy of ourselves in the hospital room.>Avenger went one way, We went 'Normal' Shirou path.>Avenger is trying to either win the war for Grail-Avenger, or make it look like that while setting up his own failure.>Made contingency plan involving a multi-grail war as a contingency of some kind.>Merlin is probably banking on this for his own 'long term diabolical scheme'.Thoughts?
>>29315754The most prominent things that come to mind for me are whatever Saber isn't telling us about the fourth war, what the hell happened to us as a child (see: that fucked-up dream we had with Rider as passenger), and the meaning behind the "looping on itself" connection we've got stored inside of us. At least one of these things is absolutely paramount to our progress, and involves as either revealing everything about them, or manipulating the entity in some certain way.What I'm getting from AC Guy is that if we take a more-likely theory and pursue it, someone, at some point, will unveil something that will finally give us the last hint we need. We just need to pick one avenue that we can pursue effectively and see where it takes us.
I'm just gonna list the traits of Dead Apostles here so we can puzzle out why Avenger wanted one.-Localised time manipulation-Ability to take something of another within itself to stabilise own existence-Able to infect others
>>29315844>Ability to take something of another within itself to stabilise own existenceThis seems relevant.
What if...>Shirou participates in Grail War. "Wins." Tries to live up to his ideals, fails, becomes Archer.>Shirou(2) participates in Grail War. Meets Archer. Knows his future. "Wins." Tries to live up to his ideals. Becomes famous. Still fails. Becomes Avenger.>Shirou(3) participates in Grail War. Meets Archer. Meets Avenger. Knows his future. Things get complicated.What if Avenger wants Shirou to WIN and not just "win?" What if this is all a plot to turn Shirou into a superhero?
>>29315557This makes me think that our desire to become a hero is what created avenger in the first place.
>>29315940Izzat you, Rin?
>>29315924I think we're solidly at 'fuck being a superhero, I'm just going to protect the people I care about' right now.
>>29315768Mine>Kerry wanted someone to save at the end of the last war, spawning us.>We are what we believe because we have the grail shards>Merlin is helping us because ???>Avenger is Shirou's shadow, so he had to have come second, possibly from Shirou's dream of becoming a hero>This may be related to killing ourself at the right time
>>29315949>What if Avenger wants Shirou to WIN and not just "win?" What if this is all a plot to turn Shirou into a superhero?OR maybe it's all a plot to disillusion Shirou.Archer already said killing him won't work.Maybe the plot is to crush his belief, thus preventing him from becoming a Counter Guardian and/or Heroic Spirit.
>>29315975>This may be related to killing ourself at the right timePretty sure AC Guy basically said that this course of action was a way to avoid a bad end going completely off the rails, not to get a good end.
>>29315980This makes some sense, I guess? That conversation with Avenger and him saying he was stuck in a role he had to play, he was the 'villain' to our 'hero', etc.Or something. I don't even know if I'm remembering it right.
>>29315980>Archer already said killing him won't work.That's because we're not the Shirou that becomes the original Archer, not because killing that Shirou would fail.
God damn, my fucking headLet's just stake out Grail Summoning Sites or something
>>29316063>yet another fucking planOKAY SO WE HAVE ELEVENTY BILLION DIFFERENT FUCKING IDEAS AND WE CAN'T DO ALL OF THEM AT ONCE.>"Also, why is 'belief' a a big thing for us? Why the hell should we be able to... accomplish Magecraft or whatever, just by *believing* in whatever we need or is convenient?"BUT WHAT IF WE COULD?
>>29315975Didn't somebody (either Merlin or Avenger) confirm that we do have a soul (meaning we aren't a demon) but it's in a form that Saber doesn't recognize as a soul?
>>29316063Seriously, let's just have a private, serious conversation with Saber about what the hell happened in the last war, and anything else she's been hiding from us. We no longer have the leisure of being considerate of her feelings, because it might get us all killed if we don't know.Tell Rin, Sakura, and Ilya to compile a list of all magical weapons they can acquire related to severance and redirection of magical ties and energies, super weapons or mundane.Then, we need to try our damnedest to manifest all things we have inside of us that are purely "Shirou", like that self-connection door thing, the bow, and so on. We need to look deep inside ourselves in a magical way and pull something out that is probably going to fucking hurt.Talking it over with the others is going to get nowhere, because nobody has anything to grasp for, so we need to take action. Any action at all.
>>29316014Exactly. Archer isn't our Archer. Avenger is.>Then why doesn't he just kill us?Because he doesn't want to 'just' not exist.He wants to erase the entire situation we're in.Combine this with:>"...you just need to really strongly desire[...] You, more than most, are exactly who you want to be[...] 'Belief makes things happen.' "
>>29316097Well, even if we decypher what in the shitting hell Avenger is trying to do, we don't have magicpower to stop it, unless you counting Saber or Rider bombing whatever that is. He's trying to summon the Grail, if we can believe that much, so might as well wait him in better places
>>29316134And there we have it ladies and gentleman, 'do nothing' has seriously been suggested as a plan.
Alright, so since we're not doing anything of amazing productivity here, let's see if we can trigger the Jewel Sword flag.Then, if nothing else, Rin will have the power to blast anything that might fuck with us to smithereens.All in favor of asking the three Magi girls if there's anything special they could cook up?
>>29316167Don't act like it's the worst thing imaginable. Doing nothing can sometimes do things. I just suggest minor relocations, is allAlthough now that I think about it, it would include reking Assassin
AC-Guy, have we had enough of a "general" consensus on something to do for you to continue, or are you still waiting for us to come to an agreement?>>29316192I support this in my >>29316125 post.
>two and a half hours since last update>still nothing resembling coherencyI stopped having fun twenty threads ago. I'm only still here because like fuck I'm going to let you win, AC-Guy.
>>29316302I think if AC "wins", his literally everything will burn forever
>>29316302>I'm trying. I'm fucking TRYING.>I'm writing up the next bit right now.>If it makes you feel better, any future Quests I run that involve Metaphysics getting screwy already had built in tutorial sections planned before I ever touched this.>The fact that nobody has any idea what's going on is only a testament to how badly this shit got derailed.
>>29316323And thus the Best Ending is revealed.
>>29316341It's always hard to ride the line between obvious and obscure when it comes to stuff like this.
The fact that we have all the pieces but still can't think of shit really depresses me
>>29316302I'm here cause I want to see the whole explanation at the end. Also, I haven't forgotten the chart we were promised.
>>29316399We have all the pieces and no glue to stick it together with, if that metaphor makes sense. That's what it feels like to me. We have concepts, things, and events, but we're lacking some little piece of context that makes it all make sense.
>>29316341It's not just that nobody has any idea what's going on, the complete lack of any direction means that even if we DO somehow stumble onto the right path, the first hint of something shiny will send us careening off into the undergrowth once more.I'm going to have to avoid the epilogue threads because I just know you'll trot out all the amazing plans we came up with that got ignored because OBVIOUS RED HERRING CHASE IT DOWN CHASE IT DOWN and I'll just be so fucking mad.>>29316399That's an issue of presentation. We do have all the pieces we need, but they're in a pile of all the pieces we DON'T need, all the pieces we need to NOT have, and all the pieces from 50 other completely unrelated puzzles.
About vampires, could that one be used as a vessel for souls?
"... Alright, we're rapidly getting nowhere." I say, after what feels like I've been staring at this map for hours. "There's something we're missing, or overlooking, or something. We either need new information or a new perspective, and this map is giving us neither.""....Alright, so what are we going do about Avenger then?" Sakura asks, looking at me concerned."We're going to have to fight Avenger. And Zouken, as well as the Servants they have working for them." I say. "Does anybody have anything else we can bring to the table? Ancient magical secrets?" I say, looking to where the shed is. "Because all I got from my Dad amounts to 'shoot them' and 'don't be a mage'.""The forbidden Einzbern magic is basically the Grail." Ilya responds with a shrug. "So, maybe I could do something with that when we get to the end.... but that would require us getting to the end first."".... I think the total Matou combat capability and knowledge amounts to two servants and whatever Zouken has on him right now." Sakura adds, hesitantly. "Sorry, Sempai.""I might have something actually." Rin says suddenly. "But I need to go back to my house to get it." She stands up, and wobbles slightly. Saber quickly grabs her, and they sit back down. "... Apparently I will be going to get it after I recover more." She continues with a blush."If Shirou went with you, you could go get it now." Ilya comments. "Rider could keep Sakura and I reasonably safe while you're gone. And Saber goes with you.""I'm not sure I like the sound of splitting up when our sheer numbers is what's warding our enemies away." Rider comments. "But I'm not sure it would be wise to wait, either."Rin looks at me, biting her lip.[ ] Go now.[ ] Later.[ ] Other.
>>29316502Go now, for the sake of exposition and progress. We can also discuss things away from Ilya, Rider, and Sakura. Rin and Saber are both people we could really use a thorough discussion with on the way there.
>>29316502>Go now>>29316445Except you never have a way of knowing whether it's a red herring or actually important detail. There's no way people wouldn't chase it downAlso what about this?>>29316448
>>29316502[x] Go now.[x] Text Issei, tell him to send Archer to 'another castle'.
>>29316502>Go laterTry and take a nap to contact merlin
>>29316530We can do that after we get back. Getting more weapons is much safer than taking a gamble on contacting Merlin.
>>29316502>[ ] Go now.Time is against us. Quick in, quick out.
Why every time I try to discuss meaning of vampire in Avenger's plan it gets ignored? You could at least have courtesy of telling me my theory is stupid or something
>>29316502ONWARD!FOR GLORY, BITCHES AND COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF SWORD!
>>29316583It's honestly because I've got no idea what he might want to do with them. The most I could guess is it's something with storing energy for the grail.
>>29316601Vampires eat peopleTsukihime teaches us that Vampires keep soul of people they eat within themselvesThus a Vampire can be used as a vessel of souls
>>29316583We simply do not have the information to understand the meaning of vampires in the whole scheme of things at this point in time.
>>29316616Really? I must have missed that bit. I only remembered that they ate people because of some DNA degenration thingy
>>29316661Also thatIt's how Arc tried to explain Chaos: he ate too much animals
"I don't think time is on our side here. We'll go now, and hopefully be back before anything has a chance to happen."I get some nods, and we leave the house together. I help support Rin while Saber keeps an eye ahead for danger. We walk along, with Rin in various stages of independence between lying on me to trying to walk with zero body contact."You seem.... nervous." I tell her, looking at her concerned.She blushes. "I'm just thinking about when this is all over. I spent my whole life carefully cultivating this pretty little image of how I've wanted people to see me." She hesitates looking away. "I think that image is completely dead by now. Between not attending a single class in more than a week, moving around town at all hours of the day and night in secret, hanging around with strange people who clearly aren't local and the fact the world almost certainly sees us as a 'thing'." She lets out an irritated huff. "All that work towards a particular social standing and I've all but dragged the family name through the mud. And here I am, taking a boy home to a house where I don't have any kind of adult supervision to do god knows what in their eyes."[ ] You don't like it?[ ] It'll pass.[ ] Where does Saber fit into that?
>>29316670If she's worried about dragging her family name through the mud, her daddy already did it. But let's not actually say it>Where does Saber fit into that?
>>29316670[x] Where does Saber fit into that?[x] Why do you care, anyway? Is it really that important in the face of how your friends and family see you?
>>29316670>[ ] Where does Saber fit into that?A boy AND an obviously foreign girl, Rin. the rumormongers certainly won't leave that bit out!
>>29316670>[ ] You don't like it?>[ ] Where does Saber fit into that?Poke, poke the tsundere.
>>29316670>to do god knows whatAbout half of them probably think Shirou's here on handyman duty.The other half think he's here on "handyman" duty.>>29316700I kind of like this one. A little bit of joking, a little bit of reminding her that even if casual acquaintances find it a little odd, it's a small price to pay for not having to be alone anymore. She's got friends who know the real her, and appreciate her for more than distant admiration of the school bigshot. And she has her sister back.Let 'em talk; she's a strong, independent japanese magus who don't need no man but doesn't mind having one regardless.
I blink slowly, thinking before- "Where does Saber fit into that?""What?" Rin asks turning to me. I see Saber give me a strange glance over her shoulder in the corner of my eye."I mean, on top of the whole me thing, there's also an obviously foreign girl going with us. Which would either make it not as bad as you think, or like a thousand times worse."Rin turns crimson, and stares at me horrified. If I wasn't practically carrying her at the time she probably would have stopped walking. "W-what?""It's probably nothing to be concerned about Rin." Saber comments lightly from ahead. I feel Rin start to relax until she continues. "If they decide to suspect us, then the entire arrangement back at the house seems even more suspect, especially given Lancer's comments. Not only is there a third woman at the minimum, but there's also a child directly subject to those horrible influences." She looks back, seemingly oblivious to the fact that Rin's heart has apparently stopped beating. "If you're going to be worried about your image, I would be much more concerned about that than a simple walk to your home to collect some personal belongings."I can almost feel the terrified screaming at the sudden revelation in her head when I decide to snap her out of it. "Honestly though, anyone who actually knows any of us knows that it's not as morally bankrupt as it seems on the surface. And while I can't speak for anyone else in our group, I really don't care what people think of me. Everyone I care about is going to be happy and safe, and I'm going to save everyone else in the bargain.""But-""Rin, I understand your concern." Saber says from ahead. "But from what I understand, nobody who matters will care one whit about what might be happening behind closed doors because either you're happy or it's none of their business. The others are probably jealous for other reasons, and would play any card they could manage to hold.">Cont.
>>29316897Discussion ends as we pass by the rubble that used to be the Matou estate, still marked off and taped with signs of investigation. Rin seems to have calmed herself slightly, though I suspect a part of it is because we haven't seen anybody who might know us along the way.When we reach her house, I get a weird sense of foreboding, and we slowly walk up to the porch.[ ] Go inside.[ ] Watch outside.[ ] Other.
>>29316934[x] Other."My spider-sense is tingling."
>>29316934>Watch outsideA sense of foreboding pervades the area
>>29316947I'm suddenly filled with regret at the missed opportunity to have our Shirou be a huge fan of Marvel and DC, and Western superhero comics in general.Still, this, but make it "Shirou-sense" instead.
>>29316934> [ ] Other."Your house wouldn't happen to be rigged with magical traps for use against mages that aren't affiliated with your family by any chance?"
>>29316934[x] OtherCall out: 'We have spooky magic moving in, better make it quick'
>>29316934>>29316947>>29316969this then[X] Go inside.don't let Rin alone if you have a bad feeling
>>29316934"I have a bad feeling about this Rin">fucking twitter didnt show you posted anything but the comment about your players not sharing notes
>>29316969Marvel Versus Capcom is a thing in Japanland. Even if Shirou was only 'very slightly' nerdy, he'd know about Spiderman and spider-sense.
>>29316934>[ ] Go inside.Shirou sense activated when we saw the house, not when we were inside.Follow the girls in. If anything happens, we need to fight them out and escape.
>>29316934>[ ] Other."You've got security precautions set up here, right? I'm getting a weird feeling, and I don't know if it's just that I'm too sensitive to the house's boundary fields or if there's something to be worried about.""It's probably worth checking your security measures first thing to see if there's anyone unauthorized that managed to slip in while you were out."
I hesitate in the doorway, looking back over my shoulder. "You have security here, right? Magically?""Yes, why?" Rin asks, suddenly concerned. "It doesn't seem to have been tampered with though.""Maybe I'm just oversensitive to the wards then.""Possibly." She responds with a weak smile. "It's never been the most inviting place." We walk inside, and Rin first goes to her room to retrieve some sort of material she puts in a sack. Then she goes into a study, retrieving some sort of a key. Finally, she goes into the basement. But before she does- "You can come with or you want, or you can stay here." She says calmly. "But if you're going with, I need to know so I can compensate to get you past the wards.[ ] Stay with Saber.[ ] Go with Rin.
>>29317222[X] Go with Rin.
>It's like 2am here, so this next post will probably be my last one.>If the thread's alive tomorrow, I'm willing to keep running.
>>29317222[x] Go with Rin.Why can't Saber come with?
>>29317222Go with Rin.Saber can take care of herself. Rin's weakened. We might not be able to beat a Servant, but I'm sure we can hold our own against one long enough to get Saber involved.
>>29317222[ ] Go with Rin.
>Stay.Rin apparently would need an extra effort to bring us with, and we wanted to talk to Saber anyway.
>>29317243>She doesn't want to. Looking at her, she doesn't want to something fierce.
>>29317222>[ ] Go with Rin.Time for the D?
>>29317222[X] Stay with Saber.Let's have that talk with saber now
>>29317222I'd kind of like to talk to Saber in order to get some things sorted, but being locked out of going to get Rin in case of trouble seems like a bad idea.>[ ] Stay with Saber>[ ] OtherAsk if Rin can temporarily key us into the wards anyway so that we have a way to get to her safely in case of trouble, or even in the best case scenario, if she needs us to come down and pack animal some sort of heavy magical junk back up the stairs.
>>29317222>Go with Rin
>>29317222Also, she needed to go get a key from somewhere else in the house, and has secondary wards that would need bypassing if she were to bring us down with her.Tohsaka, inviting another magus into your inner sanctum? Your family really WOULD be scandalized.
>>29317365Rin probably told her what's in there.Kirei Love Shrine
>>29317365>Because Rin's technically the only one who's safe down there.>I'll start writing the next bit. I got distracted, sorry.
>>29317391Eh, it's fine. Last we checked we still couldn't die, even when killed.
>>29317222DUMB FUCKS YOU ARE LETTING AVENGER IN IF YOU GO IN
>>29317419oh lookwe ignored the warning flag
>>29317365>>29317261...oh god. I just had a horrifying thought. An unlikely one, judging by the parties involved, but still a possible one.What or who does Saber instinctively find repulsive?Gilgamesh is still around, and since he was Tokiomi's servant during the 4th HGW, he could easily have been keyed into the Tohsaka household wards.
>>29317428WE ARE MAGICALLY THE SAME AS AVENGERGRANTING US ACCESS GRANTS AVENGER ACCESS
>>29317434fuck good pointbetter not go inside
>>29317439>>29317434>>29317419>Are you changing the vote? I'm just wanting to be clear before I got more than a little bit in.
>>29317434If this is the case, that means there's next to nothing keeping him from just walking right in our house's front door and fucking with all of our defenses anyway, so we're pretty much doomed.
>>29317453Yes, let's play it safe.
>>29317453Can we ask Rin if her compensation is a one-time thing? IE it lets one Shirou in, but not a second Shirou, assuming one exists?
>>29317482That is a good question to ask, because I really really REALLY want to see what's inside, but the outside chance that it'll give Avenger carte blanche to march into Rin's sanctum isn't something I'd want to risk.
>>29317482Oh yeah. We still have simac shenanigans to worry about, and Zouken and Assassin still at large.Also, meta. I seem to recall a book that tried to suck Rin's face off in Fate/Zero. Might wanna have Shirou avoid that book.
>>29317482I trust Rin to know enough about magical contract law or whatever the fuck she plans on doing so that she can exempt our particular meat-instance of Shirou from the wrath of her ancestral home temporarily, rather than giving a permanent blanket pass to all Shirous, past and present.
>>29317512Yes, but while we're in there?
>>29317515He'd have get past Saber first.
>>29317515>>29317512>>29317510>>29317499>>29317482>>29317460>>29317439>>29317434>This is entirely my own fault for bringing this level of metaphysics in.
>>29317520But Shirou is already past Saber.
>>29317515What about while we're in there? We've got Saber standing at the door ready to sword, and us inside ready to sword. Unless Avenger uses his hitherto completely secret ability to use us as a teleportation beacon I think we're good.
>>29317523Yes, it is.You could have just had Avenger be FROM AN ALTERNATE FUTUUUUURE but no.
>>29317523Coin toss time?
>>29317523Just do what we always do when all of the posters are confused beyond all hope.Have Shirou ask Rin how things actually work in-setting, and then defer to her judgement.the mystery of how we amassed the world's foremost collection of Rin Points is revealed; she's the one person besides Ilya who has half an idea what the fuck is going on in magical physicsland, so we rely on her disproportionately in order to have any hope of doing anything right.
>>29317545Except her answers when asked how Shirou factors into anything generally boil down to 'I have no fucking idea.' or worse.
>>29317523Just enter the fucking sanctum
>>29317559>her answers generally boil down to 'I have no fucking idea.' or worse.WELL, LOOKS LIKE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE, THEN.Just ask her what the deal with the ward bypass is. If the answer is "it's narrow and temporary", fuck it, go ahead. If the answer is "it will let anyone who ever met you in because of residual shirou residue on their chakras or some shit", don't do it. If the answer is "I DUNNO LOL", so help me.
>>29317595Given the likelihood that Avenger is us, this seems ill advised. Ask Rin.
>>29317606>residual shirou residue on their chakrasLewd.But yeah, let's go with this.
Has anyone informed AC-Guy of the little girl called AC?
AC, confirm or deny these:>>29316616>>29316448I need closure
>>29317730Oh. Fuck off back to your retarded circlejerk, please.
You gonna update, AC-Guy? I don't mean to bug you but I legit need to bail soon.
>>29317897We're done for today
>>29317905Someone should probably archive the thing, then.
>>29317905You're not AC-Guy.
>>29317937This late in the run when he said he was planning to wrap up soon, followed by a period of silence?He probably fell asleep at the keyboard or something. I think it's like 4am in Alaska right now.
>>29317937Yeah, but see: >>29317240That was before the giant But If We're Avenger Then Who Was Phone kerfuffle. I'm betting he's lost consciousness by now.
>>29317971Or maybe he's writing.
>>29317980He's usually pretty quick on update writing, and hasn't posted in over an hour.
>>29317937See >>29317240 shitlord
Threadly reminder that the Ebook can be found at http://pastebin.com/kbGzcbDb>>29315557I can swap out the single spaced version for the version with an extra space between each paragraph if you like.Or you could just Ctrl+A and make it double spaced.
Whatever the vote I mostly say stay with Saber. We were looking for the opportunity to have a small chat with her anyway. What I really don't get is why everyone else is so insistent that we go down there. We have a suspicion that going down there could be bad where as staying with Saber allows us to talk to her. Why do some people want to get down there so badly?
>>29318243Because if anything bad happens down there we can be there to aid a severly weakened rin? And that wards mean that we might not be able to enter easily in a hurry in case of an emeegency?
Correct me if i'm wrong but don't we have an ability to tap into wards or something like that?If so, we could stay outside with Saber and if something goes wrong, we could probably use the wards to track Rin and force ourselves in.
>>29318374No, that's not a power we've been shown to have. We hacked the Einzbern Forest a bit because the enchantment there was more passive and observational as opposed to actively hostile and fuck-off-you-shall-not-pass. We aren't going to be breaking in to a fortified place like the the Tohsaka inner sanctum by any method other than "hit wards with magic sword until they break", and I guarantee there is some unpleasant countermeasure in place to punish people who try to brute-force their way in. If Rin doesn't invite us in, we should assume we will never get in.
I would suggest cluing Rin into our suspicion of Avenger having the same magical signature as us, and asking her opinion. If she's fine with it, have us dialed into the wards so we can get in if we're needed, but stay with Saber.That way, we can react to anything going on whilst also getting our Serious Discussion Time with Saber and ask her what in the hell she's hiding from us.Also, two questions: a) Why do we care if Avenger can get into the Sanctum? We're about to leave it empty of everything we actually care about.b) Why do we care about getting into the Sanctum? Shirou doesn't need to touch anything down there.And as an aside, I support the plan of Rule Breaker'ing ourself. I think we should just get it over with already.
>>29318585Why Rule Breaker? What would that accomplish?
>>29319657Because for some reason we're attached to Avenger. And judging by what happened in our dream, it's cause we're somehow contracted to him and the grail. So break that contract and see what happens!
>>29319968Worst case, the world explodes and Shirou and Avenger start making cameos in other quests.Shirou fist fighting Red Joker in an idealism vs cynism fight on how to handle girls, when?
>>29318243Why would Saber lie to us about the 4th war? I think the current situation would force her to spill the beans already. And we went with Rin to protect our girl, so let's not fuck this up!
>>29316667I thought that was just Nrvnqsr Chaos being a walking mage-abomination whose existence defied the laws of nature, and was not a thing about typical vampires. Still, if we DID deal with a vampire like him...Hoo, shit...>>29317727Seconding this. Knowing this could help us puzzle together the reasoning.>>29317523I say we accompany Rin. Someone has to. if she passes out, we're down the one person who has a clue about WTF is happening.Saber private chat can come afterwards.
>>29321313>I say we accompany Rin. Someone has to. if she passes out, we're down the one person who has a clue about WTF is happening.>Saber private chat can come afterwards.This. I'm not afraid there's Gil in the sanctum or anything like that, I'm afraid she could just stumble, and fall downstairs. See>>29316670>We walk along, with Rin in various stages of independence between lying on me to trying to walk with zero body contact.* * *Unneeded theorycrafting:>>29313141>"Alright, that actually makes some sense. If we look at it like this, we have two magic boundaries. The one on the inside is set to draw magic in, and the ones on the outside are meant to push it away.">"All over town?">She nods. "Which is weird. The one would just be getting in the other's way.....">>29312599>>Harbor>Kirei was found hanging around there before his death, right? Could be his.>Unless I'm remembering things correctly?So, Kirei was responsible for the limiting runes. They started to disappear after his dead, starting with the ones by the church. Now they're all fading away and Avenger's runes start working for him.>>29315975>>Merlin is helping us because ???He's just a genuinely good uncle that wants Saber to have a happy life.
>>29321313>I thought that was just Nrvnqsr Chaos being a walking mage-abomination whose existence defied the laws of nature, and was not a thing about typical vampires. Still, if we DID deal with a vampire like him...Hoo, shit...That he was, but initially Arc didn't think he was much out of the ordinary
>>29323280>He's just a genuinely good uncle that wants Saber to have a happy life.Well, it's more like have a good field trip before she collapses dead from grievous wounds, like the reverse of waking from the haunt of a half-remembered nightmare, but fair enough.
Has this been archived?
>>29327782No. Someone who knows how to do that should do that.
>>29327782>>29328578What should it be archived with? "In which Shirou wishes he knew knew what the hell Avenger is doing?"
>>29328875"In which Shirou searches for answers and gears up."
>>29328875>>29328937In which /tg/ bemoans its lack of a metaphysics tutorial.
>>29328875>>29328937>>29328984In which NOBODY, least of all Shirou, knows what the hell is going on anymore.
>>29328875In which we discern the difference between a map and a planet.
>>29329062>>29329021In which we attempt to assemble a puzzle out of three different boxes and a Jenga set.
Guy reading back through the entire archive before we pick up again, here, was the first thread not archived? I am a tad irritated that I can't seem to read the first thread.
>>29330225It didn't have the Fate/Stay Again tag. Here you go:http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21336915/
>>29330225Use the 'Grail-Kun' tag. It's the only one that gets every thread.The AC-Guy tag only gets from after he took over the quest.
>>29330303Many thanks. I'm basically doing some kind of self-referential argument as I make notes as to what happens. Make notes, come up with first question. Keep taking plain, unbiased notes until question is answered or made irrelevant, to be replaced by new question. Hopefully a rigid train of thought leads me directly to what I should be noticing.
>>29330303>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21336915/I would kindly like everyone to reread this whole thread and feel moderately uneasy along with me at how some of this dialogue pops out.>Saber catches my sleeve. "Shirou, I know not her intentions here. Are you sure she's trustworthy?">I think back. Some memory seems to be pushing at the back of my mind, something I can't quite grasp. Something that says...>"Yeah. I think so.">He pauses, and looks at me. "The grail will grant the wish of whoever obtains it. If you wish to have nothing more to do with this... all you have to do is win. Anything you desire can be yours: money, power, women, purging that guilt your wear like a cloak.">"Wha-" I feel dizzy. It doesn't makes sense for him to->"Kirei, don't go off topic. I asked you to tell him the rules. I didn't ask you to open up his old wounds." A voice cuts in.>"I see. It is pointless to say anything to these kinds of people, so I was trying to take away his morality while he still misunderstood. …Heh, I guess it is true that compassion is not good for others. And I rather enjoyed it too."Nrrrrrrgh.
>>29334866So, I got a feeling about something. When we get a chance, ask Saber:"So, how'd we win last time?"See if we get a reaction out of her. I have an idea of what may be going on.
>>29335108Although it would be amazing if you're on to something here, I don't think Saber could tell us anything really useful with how far we've gone off track.
>>29335390If my theory is right, it won't matter. She should have a bad reaction to the "we" in that.I'm not talking about the fourth war, here.I'm talking about the fifth.
>>29335433I know you're talking about the fifth war, and that we're apparently repeating it, possibly like in F/HA, except the loop lasts longer than four days.I meant after the shock of the "we" wears off, Saber probably wouldn't be able to tell us much, if anything on how we won last time.
>>29335576Yeah, that is true. Step one is simply to get it out of her, though. The details can come later.I don't think it's looping, though. Archer in First Verse makes a quip about how surprisingly easy people can backstab each other, and he was implying we did something. I have a feeling we claimed the grail and did something very unwise with it for one reason or another, and here we are.Hell, the "first" time you meet Ilya with Bahsahkah, she says "it's the second time we've met 'like this'". Kirei-sama was a bit less veiled in his foreshadowing.
>>29314779WAIT ONE FUCKING SECOND, THOSE RUINS BE MIRRORED. Those X should have some sort of corisponding place at home and the shrine, where Shirou and archer are housed
>>29335784So... Would Avenger be the previous us that won the grail and went back then? Because that would explain the Psuedo-brother thing. After all, there really isn't a name for a family member that goes back in time and interacts with themself....Not to mention the Vampire and the runes. The Runes vanished soon after the Vampire was killed. If Avenger is/was almost as incompetent with magic as we are, then he needed a mage to do stuff for him more than anything. Being a vampire was just a lucky bonus that ensured that the mage would be more likely to survive.
>>29336309He's either the previous us, or a thing that spawned from us at the end of the fifth, in this theory. The latter proposition is more likely, as Avenger could then encapsulate any guilt, anger, hatred, and other negative emotions we had out of line with "heroic" standards during the war. We basically may have taken the grail, tried to make ourselves a hero, and gotten a Monkey-Paw-esque result because of it, where we get to try again to conquer our own regrets and mistakes in the form of Avenger meddling in the rerun of the war, which is why our connection seems to be self-referencing while also linked to another person, because we've chopped off, say, 5-10% of our self and made it into Avenger. It may also be why Avalon is all fucked up compared to the usual, and why we can summon a bow-thing, which is more of Archer's shtick.
*pulls out mirror*AC-GuyAC-GuyAC-Guy
>>29337803You just set his laptop on fire, and a moose pissed on his satellite dish.Good job.
ia ia AC ftaghn
Armoured Core sucks Mech Warrior 2 is better any day of the week.
>>29337984I would literally kill a small mammal with my bare hands to get a fully-functioning version of MW2 on my PC.
>>29337995http://www.myabandonware.com/game/mechwarrior-2-31st-century-combat-34iSo yeah this work?
>>29338159>http://www.myabandonware.com/game/mechwarrior-2-31st-century-combat-34iNo, it has an issue with incessant crashing and sound doesn't work. People have been fiddling with it forever and I've never seen a working setup.
>So, uh, my notification doohickey told me this thread died like, four hours ago. And linking directly to the link in my twitter took me to Foolz.>I JUST found out this thread was still alive. Sorry guys.>I'm still willing to run if we have enough people though.
>>29338282I think there's two or three people around right now. I'm not entirely sure, though. That's only the amount of people talking. Could be more waiting about.
>>29338301Its always a safe assumption that for every two posters there is at least one person lurking. Like me, for example.
>>29338282We're here, though I'm most likely to vote stabbing all our problems...
I vote we dont go with Rin into the basement and send Saber instead, We should guard the front door.
>>29338337According to some old-ass statistics moot posted, there are 9 lurkers for every poster. Although that was a whole-site average back in who knows when and could easily be different by now and/or in /tg/ specifically.
>Well, that's enough people. Just let me know what the plan is and I'll get to writing.
>>29338454The plan is to just go in. If Avenger wants to come along, he's welcome to learn how to swallow swords.
>>29338454Let Rin do her thing, we have a conversation with Saber outside. Time for a little digging for some answers.
>>29338454Give Rin a heads up that keying us in to the wards will possibly let Avenger in as well. Stay out and talk with Saber but only if Rin doesn't look like a stiff breeze will still knock her over.Once Alone with Saber ask her if she's ever repeated this war.
>>29338454> Go with Rin to assist herBut warn her beforehand that Avenger or Zouken's simulacrum may get keyed in as well.Might be best to have Rin lay a trap in the sanctum afterwards just so we can get a sense of satisfaction on someone else stumbling to our trap instead of the other way around.
I'm still in favor of this plan >>29317285 unless the temporary ward bypass is an ongoing thing, and as such would require Rin to continuously expend energy she shouldn't be wasting sustaining it.
>>29338454Go with Rin, after making sure that her keying us into the wards isn't going to give any doppelgangers we may or may not have a free pass in the future.
>>29338454Follow the tsundere.
>>29338518I favor this, but whatever happens I think we should at least warn Rin of possible incoming Avenger
>>29338544I also want ot talk to Saber.
>>29338454Go with Rin.
>>29338454Ask Rin about Spooky Magic.
AC Guy plsplsACAC GUYPLS
>>29339399Such is F/S A Quest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_North_American_polar_vortexacguy pls dont die
Rolled 1Looks like its that time again!Wheel of Misery, turn, turn, turn!Which of AC-Guy's possessions has just burned?>[ ] The fire is on fire.>[ ] Couch>[ ] Dog piss>[ ] This Router>[ ] Car>[ ] Dinner>[ ] Computer desktop>[ ] Bath tub>[ ] AC-Quest notes>[ ] All of the above>[ ] None
>>29339596Hey guys I just came to see if Ac-Guy has posted any.......
>>29339596>[ ] The fire is on fire.Depending on how you interpret this, its either good because it means nothing of importance is on fire, or bad because AC-Guy now has to fight double super fire.
I keep thinking about those damn runes. And that Avenger might be trying to make some kind of... Magical battery out of the town. You've got the wards repelling magic positioned so that the most plentiful source of magic, the lei line, is cut off from the town proper. There's an insulator area that's a null zone, and then the town itself. Now, if regular people use a tiny bit of prana just to live, they would start to build a negative charge, since the prana flow from the lei line is not connected. Nature abhors a vacuum, and the lei line might be pumping out magic at a higher rate than normal, trying to correct the imbalance. When it could not, Gaia got a headache and sent Arcuid to investigate? Arc chalked the negative charge up to a grail war, and braced herself for the inevitable magical hangover that would follow once the wards were down and the imbalance corrected itself. If any of the above a) makes sense or b) is true, Avenger might be adverse to allowing any items of infinite prana generation come into play. Violently adverse. Or he's planning on it blowing up in Shirou's face once summoned / used. Just throwing it out there.
>>29340153that is completely wrong and also retarded
>>29338454We go with Rin. Poor girl might collapse any second, so Shirou must be there to catch her.
>>29340255it has already been confirmed by one of the posts that you yourself linked towhy are you being a retard
>ARHGHGHRHGHAHGH>Alright, so it looks like going with Rin is winning? Jesus, I asked for a vote and then my browser broke 4chan. I just got this shit up again on my other computer.>>29340255>In theory, yes.>That's not why Avenger wanted one though.
>>29340283>by one of the posts that you yourself linked toNo it wasn't, you bitchtits
>>29340309>so it looks like going with Rin is winningAfter that massive aneurysm we had over the Avenger angle?>>29340315Try >>29316616 turdgurgler.
>>29340341This >>29316616 post is also mine, you butt-humped individual
>>29340309It's okay, AC, I understand.Literally enough broken computers in my room to construct a desk and chair out of for my working computers.That said, I've been up since 19:00 on Sunday and am going to go collapse now.If it comes up, I -- vote for flirting/teasing Rin- volunteer Shirou for any necessary and potentially dangerous magical shit that she retrieves from her house
>>29340358Are you saying you need it confirmed by AC-Guy when YOU ALREADY CONFIRMED IT YOURSELF?Jesus fucking christ what is wrong with you.
>>29340385I'm not a confident personAlso I didn't know if I was remembering it right
>>29340330>It's not really a big thing in and of itself, as technically all living/sentient things are vessels for souls, otherwise they wouldn't be able to have a soul inside of them.>So if you're talking about something like putting extra soul/magic juice into somebody it's more a question of capacity. Vampire souls are by nature parasitic and self destructive. That's why they need to get prana (and blood, for related but unconnected reasons) from people to stay alive.>>29340341>.... Are we still arguing over this point then?>I just kinda assumed a decision had been made sometime in the last 14 hours since the choice was posted.
>>29340165And yet this quest has been nothing but an example of the foolish leading the blind.Still, the fact remains that my previous post was the first I've bothered with in the previous ten threads due to not knowing what the hell is going on or why. I've never thought myself to be a clever man, but the level of showmanship on AC-Guy's end has left me both flabbergasted and eagerly awaiting the end so I can attempt to piece this hodgepodge together into a coherent whole. Kudos to the fellow updating the 'E-book' version, by the way.
>>29340415>steal is my bodyDelete this picture or fix it
>>29340400Well I was talking more about vampires being able to carry multiple souls, of they people they ate, but since it's irrelevant, I won't pursue that
>>29340430No. If it bothers you, you may do with it as you wish. I am going back to lurking.
>>29340400I believe the general consensus was 'ask Rin stuff before entering'.
>>29340400I would say the general consensus is ask Rin, and if she thinks it'll be fine, go with her.
>>29340400Ask Rin if letting us in has a realistic risk of allowing Avenger to koolaid-man his way in due to the whole doppelganger thing, if she thinks its cool then go with her.
>>29340400The consensus is to clue Rin into our suspicions about Avenger and Simul-thingy, then if she's fine with it, it's a 6/4 split by my count for following Rin versus chatting to Saber.
Nobody else beats 70%.
"By compensate, what do you mean?""A little focus and effort on my part." She answers. "My crest and the key will get me in safely, but taking someone else would require them to either be bonded to me like Saber is, or expending a bit of effort into making the wards ignore you." She shrugs. "The effort is fairly minimal, since the effect is built in."".... Could anyone else exploit that?"".... How so?""I mean, if you're making an exception for me, could another 'Shirou' exploit that?""No." She responds, shaking her head. "It's scanning for a presence. Who you are isn't relevant, it's checking that the person with the key has the right crest, and I'm using that authority to make you able to pass. Not as 'Shirou' but as 'the man standing next to me'. Even if someone was able to trick it into thinking it was you, it's a gap one person wide I have to hold open and you're filling." She gives me a look. "It was a good question to ask though. Certainly shows that you're learning to think the right way.""It's more like it wouldn't be the first time we've been messed around with using this sort of thing."Rin nods. "Understandable." She then gestures towards the door. "So are you coming then? Or would you prefer to stay out of the way?">?
>>29340614[x] Go with Rin.
>>29340614> Go right inPardon the intrusion and whatnot.
>>29340614[x]Enter Tohsaka's Sanctum.
>>29340614>it's a gap one person wide I have to hold open and you're fillingLEWD>Fill her gap
>>29340668If you know what I mean.
>>29340668>>29340700Are you sure you wish to undertake this course of action?
>>29340614It been a long time since I read this quest.Have we ever fixed that bike?
>>29340733The parts won't come in until after [insert clusterfuck ending here], last I recall.
>>29340733I think so? It may or may not lack the brakes>>29340668This better be better than Sakura's rape-dungeon
>>29340733We're waiting on some ordered parts, but yes, in theory it will be fixed once we get them.
Wait, so Rider wants to ride that bike, but why were we even discussing this? She's blindfolded!By the by, thread's almost dead
>>29340818Still on page 7, and we're in the dead hours of latenight US on a weekday, we've got a good 4 hours probably.
>>29340818She has magical super-senses because fuck you it's magic.
After a moment of hesitation, I follow her down into the basement. I see a charred circle on the floor that looks like it was made out of some sort of glass or resin to one side, and a large collection of shelves and chests around as well."A little dusty.""I'm not down here often. I prefer to work upstairs in my Father's old study." She answers, making her way to the side of the room with a large trunk. "Less wards to get through, more light..... This is really just where I keep more potent and valuable bit of magic I don't use very often." She begins rummaging through the chest with a quiet and intense expression as she works methodically through it. "To be honest, I'm almost getting spoiled by staying with you for as long as I have. Your house is more.... comfortable.""... Thanks." I tell her. "Probably not as secure as this place though.""Which is why all the really important things have been left in the warded impossible to breech cellar. Some things in here people from the association would kill me to get their hands on. Even if it meant fighting their way through multiple servants to get it." She gives me a serious look as she removes a particular bundle with almost religious reverence. "Things like this. I'm not sure how comfortable I am taking this to your house."".... Why?""It's a functional key to the second magic. If I can get it to work." She answers, tucking it carefully under one arm. "This represents almost a third of the potential True Magic potential in the world today. It's worth more to most Magi than the continent we're standing on."".... Oh." I say, for lack of anything else coherent to contribute."Yeah." She responds with a frown. "Let's go home, shall we?">?
>>29341032> "Let's go home, shall we?"Well, I don't think Shirou's gonna argue with that.> [ ] Go home.
>>29341032YesI have this odd feeling I should be saying words right now. We don't have any reason to do anything other than say "okay" and leave.... right? RIGHT?
>>29341032"I'm probably just paranoid, but can you check to see if the wards you put on the cellar are still strong? Just to make sure."
>>29341080We could give her a hard time about where 'home' is.
>>29341032>>29341092Might as well do this, it won't take too much time right?
>>29341070>>29341092Why not both?
>>29341080Well she's not feeling good and Saber is right upstairs so lewd things are probably out of the question, and we've already got the maguffin we came for, so unless we're going to have some one-on-one hand holding time I can't think of anything.
>>29341080Meta wise, there is that magic detecting compass Rin may have.If it's not useful for anything else, we'll at least know the location of the despair mud version of 4th War Caster.
"Yeah, let's."With that we make our way back up the stairs, and find Saber waiting patiently at the entrance to the cellar. "We have what we required then?" She asks, and with our nodded confirmation we proceed outside with her leading.As we walk down the street, Rin seems more tense than she was on the way there.[ ] Try to calm her.[ ] Keep an eye out.[ ] Talk about ____.
>>29341185>[ ] Keep an eye out.
>>29341185[ ] Keep an eye out.So how about pulling Archer back into the fold?
>>29341185>[ ] Try to calm her.By holding her hand.
>>29341199Agree on both counts. No point dropping our guard now.Late enough in the game that Archer being all secret agent doesn't help us stop Avenger.
>>29341185> [ ] Try to calm her.She has Saber being vigilant and on guard.Shirou can back her up in a moment's notice too.
>>29341200Yes.And keep an eye out.
>>29341185>[ ] Keep an eye out.We got the creepy-crawlies earlier too, never hurts to be cautious, especially when we're walking around with the parts used to build a magical superweapon.
>>29341185>Keep an eye out.We can calm Rin when we're back in house. Right now, stay alert! Gil has tried to shoot us twice, remember?
>>29341292So knowing Gil, he'll probably do the same thing again, except MORESO?
>>29341292>>29341324If he does, we should bluff him and tell him we're working on a plan to kill Assassin and Zouken before they fuck everything up for everyone.... why aren't we doing that, anyway?
>>29341334I thought we were? Isn't that why we went to recover the Tohsaka ancestral superweapon components?
>>29341341That's for Avenger.
>>29341345To be fair, it'd probably work on Zouken and Assassin as well.
>>29341324>do the same thing again, except MORESO?Gil, determined to stick us full of arrows if its the last thing he does, summons the terracotta army to attack us.
I decide to pay attention to our surroundings, and make sure nobody gets the drop on us. If that thing's half as valuable as Rin implied, then we need to be on the lookout for anybody that might even suspect we had it.I feel a sudden tugging sensation at my side, and look at see that at some point she grabbed my hand. Looking at her face though, she seems just as startled.She blushes and looks away.... and for the first time, I mirror the movement. Did I do it without noticing? Did she? Both of us at the same time?We keep our hands locked, fingers intertwined for the rest of the way home. I almost expect Saber to turn around and catch us at any moment, while at the same time wondering what the hell it is I'm getting so worked about? So what if I'm holding hands with Rin. I'm holding hands with a cute girl my age. There is nothing wrong or weird about that at all.Yet Rin's standing next to me, equally unsure of herself, and it seems almost like we're both hoping for someone to attack and force us apart. Like neither of us wants to be the one who ends it, but neither of us want it to continue.Or stop.Despite our extreme paranoia on the way home, no threat materializes to justify it along the way, and we make it to the house unmolested. We finally break contact when Saber begins to turn back to check that we weren't followed as we reach the house. As Rin passes her, I see her raise a single eyebrow in my direction as her eyes go from my face to Rin's back before giving a theatrical sigh that seems to freeze my blood.She knows? I CARE that she knows?What's gotten into me all of the sudden?I shake my discomfort aside as I walk into the house, and find Ilya chatting with Sakura and Rider. Sakura hesitates when she looks at me, and looks away like she's not sure what to do. Rider seems as still as a statue, but I also don't feel any tension from her. Ilya just seems like she's resigned to the situation as a whole.
>>29341432"How did it go?" She asks, breaking the silence before it's had a chance to settle."Uneventful, thankfully." Rin responds, holding the parcel. "You mind if we head out to the shed? Shirou's workshop, unimpressive as it is, is probably the best place for this."Ilya nods, and she stands to make her way towards the door.[ ] Follow Rin and Ilya.[ ] Check on Sakura/Rider.[ ] Talk to ______.
>>29341442>[ ] Follow Rin and Ilya.
>>29341442>[ ] Talk to ______.Didn't we plan to grill Saber for anything at all that she might not have said already?
>>29341442[x] Interrogate Saber.[x] By holding her hand.
>>29341442>>29341461>>29341472Yeah, lets stick to the plan we talked about.
>Alright, I'm starting to see double and trying to doze off in my chair, so I'm gonna call it game here. It's a good place to pick up next time to, so if you guys want to debate whatever about the next action we'll have a solid start for next time. Which hopefully won't be literal months from now, and I'll stick by the timeline I previously set.
>>29341442> [ ] Follow Rin and Ilya.On the off chance that a eureka moment might strike between the three once we lay eyes on what Rin has bundled up.>>29341507Rightey, good night then.
>>29340373>Literally enough broken computers in my room to construct a desk and chair out of for my working computers.It's fun to have been using computers in the family for so long that I can repair a broken one by simply dismantling one that I don't need.That's what people of the past must have felt like with cars.