I hit the ground, And I blink slowly, trying to understand what just happened. Rin's yelling something, but I can't understand her. Archer seems torn between whether he should be watching my allies or Avenger and Gilgamesh for incoming fire.I try and push myself up, but my arm appears to be gone. No blood or injury, just... gone. And what's left of it seems to be fading away.....That can't be good.[DC13 Survival]
Rolled 13>>31504335Can't die, have more important things to be doing.
Rolled 6>>31504335Rolling to not? die.
Rolled 19>>31504335>inb4 nat 1
Rolled 6>>31504335The harem is around, so don't make them worry.
>>31504406Rider made us promise before we left. Can't let her down.
How many people do we know of that could be called Nameless and use Grail Muck knives?Shirou does.
Crap, I conked out right as we ambushed Zouken. To ze archive!
>>31504507What if Shirou was everyone's Servant? Berserker Shirou, Caster Shirou, Lancer Shirou (he's got the necessary Luck stat).Also I'm incredibly smug that we saw this coming over 50 threads ago.
>>31504607Out of everything else.Still don't have a clue what else is going on or happening.
Rolled 4>>31504394Trace the fuck onOur body will be made of swords
Fuck yes, let's do this
>>31504607>we saw this coming over 50 threads agoYeah, good job on the totally non-obvious plot twist, AC-Guy. It's not like we deliberately walked into it just because we were so sick of trying to ask people what the fuck was going on and being met only with useless cryptic bullshit, either.
Rolled 1>>31504730You again?Go stick your dick back in your mouth. Adults are actually enjoying the thread here without your whining.
>>31504730Stop whining.This shirou has been gravitating towards HF Shirou with how he prioritises his friends and allies over innocents, accumulating in the sacrifice of the innocent for the trap and using the gunk on Zouken.
>>31504631Just knowing that fits a lot into place. We've got three of this puzzle's corners.Avenger's bit at the end of the last thread suggests that they needed Shirou to play himself-the idealistic naive hero. Instead he went Heaven's Feel and rejected those ideals in favor of living for himself. Oh sure he's doing everything for his circle of friends and lovers, but he's made a conscious choice to instead of parroting a broken ideal.Long story short: Team Avenger's plan is off, now it comes down to swordbeams.And we're really fucking good at swordbeams.
>>31504730>being met only with useless cryptic bullshitI don't know what you're talking about. Rin and Ilya have always been very upfront about how they are completely incapable of helping us.
>>31504838>Long story short: Team Avenger's plan is off, now it comes down to swordbeams.Thats like the only silver lining in this though I'm alright with how this turned out.
>>31504806>prioritises his friends and allies over innocentsExcept he's never done this.>the sacrifice of the innocent for the trapWe don't even know if Zouken was killing people, or if we could have actually prevented it if he was.>using the gunk on ZoukenI didn't see Archer offering any other means to actually kill him.Which of course raises the question of why he wanted to ambush Zouken in the first place, given that he didn't know we had the grail muck.
>>31504838>We've got three of this puzzle's cornersToo bad the puzzle's actually a circle.
Rolled 9Wheel of Misery, turn, turn, turn!Which of AC-Guy's possessions has just burned?>[ ] The fire is on fire.>[ ] Couch>[ ] Dog piss>[ ] This Router>[ ] Car>[ ] Dinner>[ ] Computer desktop>[ ] Bath tub>[ ] AC-Quest notes>[ ] Non-lesbian love interest>[ ] Metaphysics notes>[ ] College carreer>[ ] All of the above>[ ] None
>>31505077For... Future use, of course.
I stare at where my arm should be, and focus. Slowly, painfully slow, it fades back into existence.Better.I look up at Avenger and Gilgamesh, who seem to be bickering about something. I would say their guard was down, but I doubt they really consider us a threat.Archer seems to be mentally preparing himself for something as he slowly turns his back to my assembled group and ignores the stream of questions as everyone tries to talk at the same time.Then I stand up, and the noise seems to drop considerably. Even Avenger seems shocked.".... Didn't you just rip his heart out?" Gilgamesh asks slowly, looking down at me. "Didn't he also just have a gaping chest wound?""He never had a heart." Avenger responds, his calm demeanor clearly straining. "And he should be dead. That core was the only thing keeping him alive." He begins walking down the stairs, Gilgamesh trailing behind him as they slowly approach me. I try to keep my knees from shaking, since standing is a lot harder than it was a few minutes ago. "How are you standing?""On my legs." I respond with as much sarcasm as I can muster. It's out of my mouth before I even realize what I'm saying.He stares at me from his position at the bottom of the stairs for an uncomfortably long time. "You should be fading." He hesites, eyes suddenly wide. "Wait, is that what's happening?! He shouldn't be strong enough to hold you here!""What the fuck are you even talking about?" Lancer yells from by the door. "What is happening?! Zouken tries to kill Caster, Shirou disappears, and TWO teams were waiting in the same place to ambush the same guy without realizing the other one was there?!""Lancer, stay calm. We need to-" Saber begins to try and explain, but Lancer is clearly having none of it."Calm my ass! HIS HEART JUST EXPLODED INTO EVIL TAR!"I open my mouth to try and say something, but I see something moving on the level above. Assassin.[DC16 Combat]
Rolled 13>>31505167FUCK OFF ASSASSIN
Rolled 5>>31505167nb4 nat 1
Rolled 19>>31505167NIGGER DICK FUCK SHIT
>>31505223IT'S GRAM TIME!!!
Rolled 4>>31505167>roll nat 20 to contract with Assassin
>>31505167>He shouldn't be strong enough to hold you here!WHO?>but Lancer is clearly having none of it.I'm with Lancer here. SOMEONE is going to explain this bullshit.
>He shouldn't be strong enough to hold you here!Is it the Crest Archer gave us?
Rolled 5>>31505452But how does he know of the link between us and archer?Also Archer has independence for up to a week by himself. He won't just start fading away like that.
>>31505452My money's on Merlin or Kirei.Broserker is also a likely candidate, but the "hows" elude me.
>>31505167>"Calm my ass! HIS HEART JUST EXPLODED INTO EVIL TAR!"Chill out Lancer. If Avenger's telling the truth (always question this) no it didn't, because there wasn't a heart there in the first place.>>31505328It's Merlin or Kirei. No other male characters would have the knowledge or interest in helping Shirou.>implying there are make characters in FSN
He's directly above me, watching.Nobody else has noticed him yet, as he slips closer to the edge, but I'm in position to move against him. All I have to do is jump about twenty feet straight into the air and attack him.Before I can question the plausibility of the plan, I'm already airborn. I grab Assassin and drag him over the rail as I begin to fall again, twisting him beneath me with an elbow for the crash below. He lets out a small noise of pain and surprise when we hit, but he manages to worm out from underneath me afterwards.It seems like every move I make, my body gets heavier. I see my arm trying to fade again, and I force it back. As I do, I meet Saber's eye, and I can tell she saw it that time from the look of concern and confusion on her face.Behind me, Avenger I notice Avenger's talking again. "-learly it's not stable anymore now that my anchor is gone. He needs to die before it can influence him further."Turning, I see That Gilgamesh is opening his gate again, with the rings forming behind him. Eight weapons... can I be fast enough to stop them?[DC15 Magecraft]
Rolled 12>>31505865>DC15Oh come on, we had a training session and everything.
Rolled 7>>31505865Go dice
Rolled 19>>31505865This is for that goddamn bike, you asshole.
Rolled 13>>31505865C'mon, not fucky
Rolled 17>>31505865>you passed two checks in a row?>have another>I hope you weren't expected any of the other servants or masters that you're allied with to help
Rolled 11>>31505939yupand apparently speed-tracing, which we practised and perfected already, is harder than defying Gaia and forcing our existence upon the world through sheer willpower
Rolled 13Welp, at least no Critfails were rolled...
>>31506042Alternatively: Gilgamesh is actually that good.And he IS that good.
We are going to die and I love it.
>>31506302I wonder what would've happened had we failed to not-die check at the beginning. Hell, it might've given us some insight into who we're bonded to, and it probably would've let us skip the awful fights.
>>31506302>To succeed, you first need to fail and destroy the source of your Shadow, and kill yourself.We just have to make sure we die in a way that's functional, as opposed to just dying in general.I'm a little worried about keeling over given the>"[...] clearly it's not stable anymore now that my anchor is gone. He needs to die before it can influence him further."so it'd be nice if we could stick around long enough to get a handle on what the hell Avenger's plan actually entails first.
I start to trace them, seeing the lines form in my head. I start to form them, throwing them as quickly as I can. Two of them fizzle before they get very far, another misses it's target. The others connect, but three swords are still coming at me. I focus on forming another blade from the hilt for my hand, but my arm's gone again. And the blades-Are deflected by Saber as she lands in front of me. I didn't even see her move. Is she that much more powerful now with Rin? Or am I just that weak?I feel my legs trying to give beneath me. "Shirou?" Saber begins, not looking at me. Eye on the opponent. "Are you alright?""I'm fi-""Bullshit." The interruption surprises me, but not as much as the fact that Lancer and Archer both said to together."Your arm is GONE." Lancer accuses from behind me. "That isn't 'fine'.""You need to take Shirou and retreat." Archer commands, not looking at any of us. "Staying here can't end well."".... They're outnumbered. We can hardly be better prepared than this." Caster comments, surprised."Gilgamesh negates the number advantage. There's only two of us who can compete with that, and one of them is trying to die on you. And once I'm dead he's going to be your only option."
>>31506660Avenger looks to Archer. "So what, you're betraying us?""Betrayal seems to be a running thing with Archers at this point. I've betrayed myself, I've betrayed Rin. Hell, I betrayed my own plans to betray myself by backstabbing MYSELF again!" He trows up his hands. "That has to be some kind of record.""And now what?" Lancer comments. "You die horribly to try and give us a chance to escape?""Actually, I was planning to wedge my foot up his-" He points to Gilgamesh, looking back as Lancer like he's ignoring his declared target. "-ass, and I figured that You lot would like to be somewhere other than ground zero when that happened, given the sickly little kid you have to worry about."Avenger looks infuriated by the turn of events, and Gilgamesh more so. But the way things are....[ ] Leave Archer.[ ] Other(?)
>>31506685>Try and project ourselves a Heart for a minute
>>31506685Trace a sword, jam it in your leg and anchor your leg to this plane of existence through that. Then try to fight again.
>>31506685"Where's my goddamn body Avenger."
>>31506685I vote for >>31506733.
>>31506733Fuck it, project a new heart
>>31506685>[X] Take rainbow sword from rin, shove it in your chest.what? we have a sword shaved hole/imprint in our soul right? ANd we're losing stability, I'm anything is gonna save us it's that.
>>31506685Contract with Rin. By kissing her.>>31506733>>31506762>>31506797We have bigger problems that the lack of a heart.
>>31506733Sure, why not?
>>31506755In the ground. Shirou never made it out of that Fire.Remember when he made that wish too live? His soul got up, his body didn't.
>>31506685Set the building on fire.
>>31506685Noooo, Broserker 2: Archer Boogaloo
>>31506814They can wait until we have a heart again. We started fading out when we lost it. So, logically, if we replace it, we'll stop fading out.
>>31506685>>31506660So is Assassin just chilling here right now?I'm not entirely sure why we don't just rush them right now. We fall back with say Bazette and Rin, let the Servants gank Gilgamesh.
>>31506733Has Shirou even analysed a heart?
>>31506685[X] I am the heart of my Forge.
>>31506800I really like this idea. It might kind of work on a magical level, and it fits so damn well on a thematic level. Let's do it.
>>31506685Reach for Avalon. If it's ever going to conveniently appear, now's the time.If that fails we can leave Archer.
>>31506800Does anyone familiar with Nasu know if this would actually work?It soundsjust Shounen enough to win us this fight.
>>31506685"Oh, Archer, fuck off with the melodrama. Rather than climb up on your cross, let's try to end this here"
>>31506685>[ ] Other (Contract with Assassin)>Use temporary simac body to stabilize our existenceThrowing out whatever options now, and seeing what will stick.
Would Gil be able to hijack the crystal sword just by looking at it?
>>31506839wait. Fuck is this true.
>>31506800changing my vote for this
>>31506858The heart was acting as the core of stability.Assuming I'm right>>31506839Shirou died during the fire, the grail just made him a Mudbody to puppet. His real body got possesed by avenger.
>>31506800WaitWaiiitt...Let's take the sword... And project a heart around it. THEN stab it into our chest!There's no way this can get worse!
Rolled 4>>31506839....Is that why we could never find avalon in our body?OUR BODY IS AVALON? THATS WHY THERES NO AVALON INSIDE.
>>31506973...what? That's not even remotely close to how Gate of Babylon works.
>>31507025Yep, which means even thought our origin isn't just Sword, It's the Sword of folly. It also means that, Being a natural sheath, stabing ourselves with the magic sword might actually work.
>>31507024Avalon is in Avenger imo
>>31506733I don't see how that would ever work using projection. Shirou does swords, not biology. Now, regrowing a new heart via swordification I could see if it wouldn't take so goddamned long to finish.>>31507025...We did have a sword-shaped hole....Fuck.
>>31506918Probably not. Combat in Nasu is about concepts: Can a shield-to-stop-any-spear block a spear-that-hits-first and that sort of thing.For that to work, Shirou would literally have to have been powered by a magic sword before. Or maybe not, protagonists bending the rules is another point of the franchise. But probably this wouldn't work.
Rolled 3>>31506927Fucking this.
>>31507024Either it works and everything's peachy, or we confuse the fuck out of everyone when we stab ourselves in the chest with a heart. It's a win-win.
>>31506973No, Gate of Babylon doesn't copy things. It's an armory containing all the weapons he owns, not a photocopy machine.
>>31507098Avalon. And his origin is sword. What else would work?
>>31507081Nah avenger is in our body, and we're a projection based off of Avalon, and grail mud to make it hold.
>>31507098This Shirou seems to be the physical embodiment of the concept of Sheathes. Or he is a sheath. We should stab Rin's concept sword into our concept sheath.It's like poetry.
>>31507151Well, an actual weapon with healing powers would do it. It looks like we just need something to hold Shirou together.I've suggested tracing Avalon itself, but barring that, does anyone know a healing relic or weapon?
>>31507209Or have Archer stab us with his "sword".In all seriousness, why not have Saber stab us with Excalibur instead?
>>31507082It's simple.We project our heart.... But swordified. I'm telling you, this is the best plan.
Okay, on the insert rainbow sword think. I see one of four things happening. 1) we explode2) it fixes us.3) we fuse with it becoming a living sword.4) It causes us to project our orgin "the sword of folly" Which, due to us being fake, is a fake sword. But, the unlimited prana from the rainbow, lets us do it anyway. In which cause we will have literally written our soul into reality.
Rolled 18>>31507209>Rin stabbing her concept sword into Shirou's concept sheath.That's pretty backwards there isn't it?
Boss, are these things we can attempt? Or are we just spinning our swords?er wheels
We're trying to die for some reason, Avenger wants us dead, and the best plan anyone can think of is to stand there while we're incapable of winning a direct confrontation.If Archer can't pop UBW and Saber doesn't have Avalon, WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION WHERE GILGAMESH IS REMOTELY KILL-ABLE.
>>31507256Because that would cause Avalon to revert into it's sheath state. Killing us.
>>31507258Heart of Sword
>>31507232We're not falling apart because there's an injury breaking us apart, we're falling apart because there's no power source keeping us together. Avenger took out his 'anchor', and expected us to keel over immediately because he more or less popped out the battery.Which is kind of why I like the Jeweled Sword plan, as wacky as it is, since it's basically the best possible replacement power source, and has a reasonably high compatibility given SWORD.
>>31507310I thought we wanted to "die"?
We are retarded. Wow. I just realized Merlin was talking about THIS EXACT SITUATION in thread 6.>"Right then, the sheath needs a sword, right? That’s part of why the curse is in there, but luckily you seem to have adapted well to it." He hesitates. "A mite too well actually. I wonder if you're what I intended to receive the gift." He sighs and shakes his head. "I suppose it's too late for such concerns. Listen, Lock and Key, Sword and Sheath. To succeed, you first need to fail and destroy the source of your Shadow, and kill yourself. Do you understand?"
>>31507295>We're trying to die for some reason, Avenger wants us dead, and the best plan anyone can think of is to stand there while we're incapable of winning a direct confrontation.Nah, the plan is to either project a heart, our stab ourselves with Rainbow Blade.>If Archer can't pop UBW and Saber doesn't have Avalon, WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION WHERE GILGAMESH IS REMOTELY KILL-ABLE.We're avalon, and Archer is about to go UBW.
>>31507365....So do we need Saber to stab us?
>>31507350Nah we have to kill ourself. Which is Avenger. Because Avenger zombie possesed our dead body.We've already failed and destroyed our source of darkness, when we killed Zouken we failed. And when the heartlump was removed, so was the darkness.
>>31507334Didn't Rin tell us that the Jeweled Sword could basically be used for swordbeams? Trying to use a nitro engine in place of a water pump sounds like a fantastically awful idea.
>>31507422Worse than our other fantastically awful options?
>>31507422At this point our soul is literally made to hold a sword-beam weapon. Technically excalibur, but that would kill us.
>>31507422>"So we didn't just get massive mana battery?">"We sort-of did?" She answers slowly. "I just don't know how I could use it with that sort of finesse."The only reason Rin seems concerned about her ability to use it as a battery is lack of compatibility.This is not an issue I'd imagine Shirou's inner workings would end up running into.
>>31507366If Archer could UBW, he wouldn't be telling us to survive so we could do it to Gilgamesh. This EXACT situation happened in the UBW route in the VN.>>31507365>>31507382I'm pretty sure we needed to get Avenger to decontaminate us, so we could Rule Breaker him without dieing from lack of grail mud immunity.Because Avenger has already said more than once he didn't want to be the villain, and that's how the Sakura/Grail link was broke in Heaven's Feel.>>31507465I fail to see how retreating and healing up is a terrible option. We now have one major threat to deal with, and it wouldn't be hard for us to swing it either.
is anybody gonna vote? We only have like three up there.
>So. We're some sort of illusion thing.>We have, but don't have Avalon.>Our location reads as avenger's location....Yep, Avenger definitely stole our dead body.
>>31507465...Touche. Have a femGil.>>31507504No, it's a lack of "how does this even work", not compatibility. More compatibility wouldn't help, her family's been working towards this for generations, it's literally their birthright. The problem is that it's alien techmagic, and ludicrously powerful.
Rolled 2>>31507517We're discussing incredibly awesome and/or stupid options nigger!
>>31507587She does Jewels. Shirou does swords, and gets an instinctive understanding of their inner workings. Which do you think can handle it better?
>>31507507>I fail to see how retreating and healing up is a terrible option. We now have one major threat to deal with, and it wouldn't be hard for us to swing it either.If Archer thinks he has a chance of defeating Gilgamesh here and now, there's not really any reason not to have our posse of Servants jump Avenger and Assassin.
>>31507619You don't understand how out of whack the Jewel sword is. Shirou can't understand it when he traces it in HF and even Archer's arm can't understand it.
>>31507619Isn't it Rin? I thought Shirou messing around with it (with Rin admittedly) is what catapults them on their Excellent Adventure while hollow ataraxia is going on.
>>3150759FUck it.OUr options so far are:[ ] Leave Archer.[ ] Try and project a (sword?) heart.[ ] Take Rainbow sword, but it in the slot in you soul.[ ] Take Excalibur, slot it into soul.Will probably kill us[ ] I am the heart of my Forge.[ ] Other (Contract with Assassin)[ ] Other(?)
>>31507662Honestly, this retarded stabbing ourselves with the Jewel sword plan makes more sense than whatever the fuck is going on with Shirou and Avenger. Let's do it.
>>31507648True. According this. We had ought to focus on making us a new heart. Then we can get in the fight too.
>>31507689>[ ] Take Excalibur, slot it into soul.Will probably kill us
>>31507662Shirou also can't understand his fucked up, Sword of folly origin. Coincidence?
>>31507689Set the damn building on fire.
>>31507714The heart isn't the issue. The issue is that we're fading out of existence. Because real Shirou became avenger, we're a copy of him running on Avalon XP.
>>31507790>>31507764>>31507691Let's just fuck everything up as spectacularly as possible and hope it works.
>>31507823So...Project swordified heart around Excalibur AND the Jeweled Sword, then stick it in our chest?Because that sounds like a great idea.
>>31507648>once I'm deadDid you not see that? He knows he isn't going to win.The bit where he's telling Lancer to fuck off because he has it is him SHIT TALKING.
While I suppose this whole situation is related to Wacky Plan #3 (Kill ourselves at right time to avoid or prevent something), I think Operation Sword Heart is probably the least crazy of our options right now.
Rolled 6>>31507689> [x ] Take Excalibur, slot it into soul.Will probably kill us.Eh don't worry, we won't die even if we're killed.
So AC-Guy's been gone for about an hour.What do you think the odds are he saw us going full-retard and said 'fuck it'?
>>31507889>>31507760Why would you choose this option instead of the Jewel Sword? At least the Jewel Sword can work as a prana battery.
>>31507941That, or he's going "FINALLY!" and breaking out the champagne.
>>31507941That's his primary form of entertainment. If it isn't something external, our flailing probably got him gasping for breath rofling
>>31507963Because if we are avalon...There is only one sword shaped hole in us.Excalibur: This hole was made for me~
>>31507968>Breaks out the champagne>hits himself in the eye with the pressure-launched cork>can't finish quest from hospitalAnother day in the life of AC-Guy.
>>31507963Maybe with the idea that we have Avalon?I'll got with >[X] Cornhole ourselves with the Jewel Sword
The way I see it, three things can happen with the "replace our heart with [one of the various ultra-magic swords]" plan:Best case: It powers us back up and gives us the chance for a sexy combo attack with Archer so he doesn't have to sacrifice himself to speedbump Gil.Most likely: It won't do much and we'll keel over, which isn't too different from what's happening already without our intervention.Worst case: We shove the wrong thing in there and explode, and Taiga beats us senseless in the Dojo for being a derp.At first it sounded retarded but it jives with what we've been told about tactical (metaphorical? Fucking Merlin, being all vague and shit.) suicide being something that would benefit us.
>>31507963Ok look. Let me describe the ways we could fuck up the Jewel sword.1. Our entire reality collapses.This thing is used to connect alternate dimensions. I don't want to try stress testing it right now because it could end the entire plane of existence.2. Prana Overload.For all we know we might absorb the mana from a thousand dimensions and explode messily.3. Sucked into gods knows where.Alternate dimensions, need I say more?
>>31508002You realize Excalibur will Hard reset Avalon right? Which will wipe us.When Merlin said kill ourselves, he meant Kill Avenger. Who is in our body.
>>31508043Not if we channel the prana right away in an effort to project our origin. Also, since we're sort of a demon, our "body" can adapt.
>>31508043>1. Our entire reality collapses.Excalibur is made from wierd-ass fairy shit, plus it might reset Avalon as others have mentioned.>2. Prana OverloadExcalibur isn't even a prana source. It wouldn't really help us.>Sucked into god knows whereThis is the first point reworded, and it doesn't even really make sense. The Jewel Sword doesn't transport things, just prana.
>>31507941>It's mostly because I don't see anything resembling a plan. The closest we have is people joking (or at least I hope their joking) about ramming a magic artifact designed to kill people into Shirou's chest.>>31507968>>31507984>Actually, this sucks for me. Because you guys are having a hard time figuring out what you could be doing and I'm sitting over here feeling like I failed you entirely but not explaining things better, but failing to see where things could have been changed or explained more without just straight-up explaining the upcoming plot twists in detail, or giving you extremely detailed knowledge of whatever the badguys were planning.
AC-Guy, I summon you!I have the sacrifice.>Image related.
>>31508163Excalibur =\= Jewel Sword of Zelretch.And the Jewel Sword CAN transport things but only very tiny ones. It's basic function is opening a rip in time and space to an alternate dimension.
>>31508002It's Avenger with the original Shirou body that has Avalon though, if all the pieces of the puzzle fit.We need to sever that from him first (Rule Breaker), recover it while sustaining our existence, put Avalon inside us within that narrow window, then we could start thinking of how to plug weird swords into Shirou's empty chest.Unfortunately, it's too many actions to pull off within a small window. I have doubts about pulling it off while Shirou's existence is wavering...
>>31508190>(or at least I hope their joking)Here's the joke.They're not.Personally, I'm simply voting for a tactical withdraw and hoping Archer doesn't get wasted...
>>31508190Okay, self-swording is out, anyone got ANYTHING else?
>>31508190I vote we leg it, we need to stabalise our selves once thats done we can save Archer from Archer.
>>31508276Probably retreat and try not to die.
>>31508190Okay. Avenger needed us to be the Hero. We failed by being willing to kill Zouken using the grail mud.He ripped the grail mud out of us.We're falling apart because this isn't a real body. It was a "demon-like" thing being sustained by Avalon, and grail mud. Thee grail mud is what held it together.We've filled msot of merlins prophecy, now we just need to kill ourselves. IN this case, Avenger. Who is in our real body.If we literally just projected Rule breaker, and stabbed him with it, I think we'd win.
>>31508190>The closest we have is people joking (or at least I hope their joking) about ramming a magic artifact designed to kill people into Shirou's chest.Word of God says our best plans right now are shit. We might need more than one thread to figure this out.
>>31508276Burn the fucking building!
>>31508190also, remember us trying to rewire the Einzbern forest in order to save Berserker? We'll try anything till you swat our noses
>>31508190>The closest we have is people joking (or at least I hope their joking) about ramming a magic artifact designed to kill people into Shirou's chest.>implying it doesn't make perfect sense in-character>implying it doesn't make as much sense as Shote Shirou wishing not to die somehow making a zombie Shirou that's also a sentient Grail while turning Shirou's soul into a demon based around Avalon
>>31508276Well we could always leave Archer to fightIf we ignore mana problems, he's pretty good match for both Gil and Avenger, since he's immune to the mud
>>31508303Right them.[X} Project Rule Breaker. GO for Avenger.
>>31508190So I'm going to interpret this as Shirou's instinctive knowledge of swords and sword accessories telling him this idea is bad, and let Archer have his heroic sacrifice.>[ ] Leave Archer.Alas, Archer surviving isn't really a thing that happens. And I'm not sure he'd want to stick around watching his way better alternate past self fuck bitches all day anyway.
>>31508190Welp, I've got nothing.
>>31508337Give him some time to calm down and we'd have double Shirous. Less stress in the harem
>>31508190>>31508276Hang on... Right. If we're "Demon-like", as >>31508303 says, I have an idea. We could try and pull off a "Possession" on someone. Archer would probably be easiest, but... This way, we buy time, get a form, and potentially get out of dodge.
>>31508303Works for me.[x] KILL OVONGER
>>31508378I swear the plans just keep getting worst as time goes.
>>31508399Welcome to /tg/ when it crosses over with /a/, enjoy your stay.
>>31508378That's an awful idea, and not how it works at all.
>>31508331>[X} Project Rule Breaker. GO for Avenger.Best thing about this plan is that three people are present that can simultaneously do it.Though only Archer has the highest chance of success with our current condition.But if Caster were to give the the dagger to Souichirou.... Nah, she won't risk that.
>>31508398>"Yo dawg, I heard you like Emiyas so we put a Shirou in yo Archer so you can EMIYA while you EMIYA!"
You know what?, lets just do this. Leave Stay and fight avenger Stay and fight Gil
>>31508441So how you getting pasted Gil?
>>31508303>>31508331...Actually, I think this is it.>>31508419Hey, we don't need /a/ 's help to be completely retarded. We can be completely retarded all on our own thank you very much!
>>31508378what exactly do you mean "possession". I'm not sure Nasuverse demons work that way
>>31508399>AC-Guy fucks the setting with a rake>fails to explain anything>responds to confusion by ignoring it until we think he's gone then mocking usFrankly, us using spooky magic to possess someone is almost guaranteed to make more sense than Kirei masturbating to a picture of Shirou in order to keep us around (or whatever it is that's keeping us alive).
>>31508464>passedFuck you phone.
Guys we just pormised Rider that we'd bail if it looked like we might die. We made this promise literally yesterday real time. C'mon guys.
Oh fuck I just realized. Avenger wanted us to win. He wanted the person who won the grail to have a pure soul. That's why he was a villian, to make us the ultimate hero. If we've won the grail, we would have ushered in a utopia!
>>31508479Here's a crazy idea...WE LEAVE. WE WITHDRAW. WE LET ARCHER DO HIS THING. WE LET PEOPLE WHO KNOW MORE ABOUT SPOOKY MAGIC EXPLAIN SHIT TO US.
>>31508508That makes no sense. The grail is a massive prana battery created to punch a hole in reality.
>>31508525Can't we're breaking apart. We need tot ake back our body, now.
>>31508490If we bail we will die (we as in our future self).I agree with those saying to trace Rule Breaker. Lets do something at least.
>>31508479You know, it could be Broserker. "No one truly dies until they're forgotten.">>31508508The Grail corrupts any wish made on it. If we'd created a utopia it would be in the literal sense: No place. So you're pretty much wrong.Besides, the Grail's true purpose is to let one of the three mage families reach the Akashic Record.
>>31508536It's meant to grant a wish. However, the corruption of the grail meant that it could only do so in the darkest way possible. Shirou was meant to cleanse it.
Rolled 20>>31508490>Guys we just promised Rider that we'd bail if it looked like we might die.Oh shit![x] GTFO and leave Archer to kick their asses
>>31508542You really realized that we forced ourselves back together twice during this thread? That maybe if we get away from all the fighting we could do that again and buy enough time to find a better solution that isn't suicide run.
>>31508596if we sleep we die.
>>31508525>WE LET PEOPLE WHO KNOW MORE ABOUT SPOOKY MAGIC EXPLAIN SHIT TO US.Nobody knows more than Shirou. Every fucking time we've asked people for answers or advice, they've responded with some variation of "I have no fucking idea." We pretty much had to order Rin to tell use about Jewel sword. We asked multiple experts on magic about the runes, and they all told us that had absolutely no fucking idea.
>>31508525But AC-Guy doesn't explain shit, anon.
>>31508542Once we're out of immediate danger Caster, Rin, and Ilya should be able to stabilize us.Archer wouldn't be telling us to get the hell out if doing so would kill us, he evidently trusts our rather formidable mage support staff to be able to get our motor running again, and frankly I'm inclined to trust the guy who's employed by Alaya to deal with problems. He may be a prick but he's pretty much the authority on dealing with magical combat crisis situations.
Okay folks, do we:1) Go for Avenger2) Retreat3) Try to project/imagine functioning body, THEN do one of the above.
>>31508779>2) RetreatWe can fuck with metaphysics once we're safe
>>31508640>>31508675When we don't ask for impossible shit, they're actually really helpful. You have to remember we were told straight up that we were UNIQUE. Most of the time when people around us were at a loss was because we or Avenger were doing things NOBODY had seen before that point.Getting angry about not getting all the answers in these situations is kinda retarded.>>31508640>We pretty much had to order Rin to tell use about Jewel sword.She was hesitant about it because it's the nuclear option. Enforcers from the magic association are going to come right the fuck into town to interrogate her because of its sudden appearance.
>>31508779Did we bring the flashbangs? Let's drop one and all run.If we didn't, let's magic one up.
>>31508779Frankly, I still think>[X] Gem Sword through the Heartis the best option, but nothing can upset AC-Guy's plans, so let's go with>2) RetreatIf either of the other two were real options, they would've been included in the story post.
Rolled 9>>31508583>Nat 20Oh lawdie.
>>31508190This is what happens when you refuse to explain even a single goddamn thing to your players.We legitimately have NO FUCKING IDEA what to do. We don't understand the implications of ANYTHING that is happening right now. We don't know what the consequences of any of our actions might be, nor do we know how to actually counter anything our enemies are doing, OR IF THEY'RE EVEN OUR ENEMIES TO BEGIN WITH.You have had ample opportunity to give us the information we need to actually make decisions, but you've instead give us cryptic bullshit or non-answers at every step.You're basically making a blind man play Tetris, telling him 'well, the next shape has four blocks, you should be able to figure it out from there', and then acting confused when he fucks up.
Guys...We still have the shotgun.
>>31508794>things NOBODY had seen before that point.Avenger invented an entirely new school of magecraft just to put meaningless markings all over the city? > we were UNIQUEAKA, entirely OC and impossible to predict or work with.
>>31508895It's a baseline shotgun. Avenger gives no fucks, Gil actually gives *negative* fucks, and there's nobody and nothing else that we want to shoot.
Confusion leads to frustrationFrustration leads to AngerAnger leads to no beer, no TV make Homer something something
>>31508895....... Yes we do, Ok remember how he said his magic is like a revolver, now what if he could shoot half traced swords out of the shot gun?
>>31508881>We don't understand the implications of ANYTHINGWe understand enough to make the decision as to whether we run. The write-in is for brilliant insights or Indy ploys.This is not on AC-Guy. This is on you: Do you want to run or can you out-think the scenario?
>>31508881Yeah, I'm actually with you on this one. We;ve had way too little information the entire quest.
Do...do we stop trying to hold ourselves together *just* long enough to try to magic up a Rule Breaker shot, try to catch Avenger off-guard?
>>31508950... Is that Agrias?
>>31508973>We understand enough to make the decision as to whether we run.Obviously we don't since we've been discussing this shit for an hour and forty minutes and we still have no idea what the option other than run look like.
>>31508779>2) RetreatLet's just let Archer do his thing while we regroup. We've already abandoned the save everyone forever regardless of consequences superhero act, and Archer has made his choices.
>>31509005Yesurrry now going back to the shotgun, Rule Breaker buck shot think about it
>>31508973Running doesn't actually solve any of the problems, it just delays them. There's no point saying 'oh we can talk to the girls and find a solution' because they'll just say 'IMPOSSIBRU' and give us no help whatsoever. Again.
HEY AC=GUY CAN YOU SET UP ONE OF THOSE NUMBER VOTE THINGS, CAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE NOT GONNA GET nywher.
>>31509046That's why it's a write-in. We don't have to break the scenario to continue, this has been us trying to decide whether we can or not.>>31509080I'm reasonably certain leaving will result in some changes on that front.New topic: What do we do or suggest our comrades do so we can avoid Archer sacrificing himself stupidly?
>>31509133First off, who's here? Lancer, Rin,Saber, Caster, and Archer were mentioned, and presumably Bazette as well, Rider's probably at home with Sakura, and we're pretty much out of commission until we figure out how to maintain existence.
>>31509133[x] Blast Gigolomesh with the Jewelled Sword at full power.
>>31509077Found out that's Ref Stay Night but not finding a translated version. Don't suppose you know of translated copy out there?
>>31509133And that's where frustration comes in, cause we already lost one ally like this and the[ ] Other? seems to imply there's something we could do... but hell if any of us can figure it out sanely
So I see a thread's up, and I come in........ to see this. You guys realize there's only three things you haven't been explicitly told right? Out of all the things you're complaining about?Maybe AC-Guy was too subtle on some shit, or the gaps in running made you forget some details, but there are exactly three fucking things.1: Avalon's location.2: What the Avenger/Shirou connection thing was all about.3: What Avenger was doing with the runes.Everything else you have either revived a direct answer to at some point, either in or out of character, or got like 99% of it solved, only for a 'hmmm, but what about THIS detail' which was then heavily inferred to be connected to one of the above listed three things.Now being confused? Understandable. Bitching out AC-Guy because you're not connecting the dots, and therefore everything is his fault forever? Less reasonable.
>>31508840>>31508790>>31509061>RetreatRetreat. We're not going to agree to any other plan of action, and frankly we should just move on so we can get to figuring out just what the fuck is happening.
>>31509133>New topic: What do we do or suggest our comrades do so we can avoid Archer sacrificing himself stupidly?Toss Lancer a Rule Breaker and tell him to stab Avenger in the dick while everyone else backs off to minimum safe distance?I mean yeah, we'd by relying on LANCER to get the job done, but he's the only one with the stats and skills to even possibly survive the massive swordsplosion that's going to happen when Archer and Gil clash.I mean we're at least somewhat sure that doing that will cause Avenger to either spit out Avalon or our real body.This plan has the problem that it would delay Archer's ability to deploy UBW, since he wouldn't want to trap any allies in there with him and the Gil rapetrain for obvious reasons though, and without it we don't have a guarantee that Gil couldn't hold them off.
>>31509246The Other is there in case one of us can come up with something AC-Guy hasn't seen. It's not that he has a way plotted out that he's not presenting.>>31509265Be fair, a lot of stuff has been explained ooc, get explained after the thread proper. Myself and a lot of others leave as soon as we see no more story updates are forthcoming.
>>31509265The ones bitching are only a couple. The rest of us are trying to figure out what to do.
>>31509265>Where is Avalon?>What is Shirou?>What is Avenger?>Why can Avenger control our Grail connection?>What happened to Berserker?>What were the runes about?>Why is Assassin super strong?>What did Merlin nudge back at the end of the fourth war? What were his goals?>What was supposed to be awkward/uncomfortable about the movie date day?This one looks mostly like a dropped thread, since Ilya mentions it then it's never brought up again.>How did Avalon get removed from the Shirou that Kerry stuck it in?>Why were we able to initially contract with Saber but unable to reestablish the connection?>How was Avenger able to be active before the Grail War began? If he was active before the Grail War began, what was the "taint" that Arc sensed leaving the Grail?
>>31509381I think Archer may be planning to get himself killed partly out of a desire to not have to face Rin. He kinda was unwilling to meet her earlier, and might be looking at this as an opportunity to redeem himself in death. Should we get her to yell something at him?
Looks like we've got:[ ] Fervent hope that Rule Breaker on Avenger helps us and [ ] GTFOchoose poorly
>>31509651GTFO won last time with four votes. Are we even sure AC-Guy is here?
Rolled 1>>31509651Let us look to the dice gods for guidance
Unless there's a surge in Other... we out
Rolled 20>>31509738Oh you gotta be shittin' me Anon, really?
>>31509781>>31509738FSA dice everybody.
>>31509738>>31509781I dont even know anymore.
>>31509809>wow a 1 on a d2>such odds>so 50/50
>>31509839Now gib the probability the 20 would hit given the one.
>>31509651>[ ] GTFOAlready weighed in all the plans presented (and I'm speaking as one who also contributed ideas).The plans are too convoluted to consider the timeframe we have to pull it off successfully, whilst Archer's is pretty much to the point.So I'll go with the "Retreat" option.
>>31509873Given that the one is already there? 1/20
>>31509738>1d2Cmon guys, just get 4chanX already.
Observant Guy here. I'm just gonna go ahead and drop my unified theory for 'What In The Goddamn Fuck Is Happening' so you guys can understand what I see, and the assumptions I'm operating under.Shirou died at the end of the last war. Not 'almost', died died. His body and soul split. One became demonic, as in 'living wish' shit, and the other became Avenger. We, under this supposition, are Wish!Shirou.Avenger has Avalon, since it's in 'Shioru's' body, and he's driving that around while we're a not-ghost.Avenger was behind the kidnappings.Avenger was kidnapping Girls with Magic potential to act as Grail Cores.Avenger sent them away. This is what the evidence points to, but I'm not sure why.Berserker isn't dead. I'm not saying this for wishful thinking, I'm saying this because there are two things that could happen to a dead Berserker, and neither did as far as we can tell. WTF else is going on here, I have no idea.Runes were helping with above Grail Core theory.Saber, when summoned, was bonded to both us-Shirou and Avenger-Shirou halves. Only one half of 'us' was trying to bond with her at the temple.
>>31510071>Avenger sent them away. This is what the evidence points to, but I'm not sure why.>Runes were helping with above Grail Core theory.He was attempting to prevent the Grail from absorbing magic/manifesting?
>>31510071>Shirou died at the end of the last war. Not 'almost', died died. His body and soul split. One became demonic, as in 'living wish' shit, and the other became Avenger. We, under this supposition, are Wish!Shirou.Yes.>Avenger has Avalon, since it's in 'Shioru's' body, and he's driving that around while we're a not-ghost.Kerry thought he put Avalon in our Shirou. He wouldn't put it in a corpse, and he would notice a body-swap.>Saber, when summoned, was bonded to both us-Shirou and Avenger-Shirou halves. Only one half of 'us' was trying to bond with her at the temple.If this were true, she should've noticed the prana coming from two sources, and we should've shared command seals. It also doesn't make sense to only require Avenger's presences for the reestablishment of the contract.This theory also doesn't explain why Avenger was active in the years between wars but the taint only came out of the Grail when the war started.
>I guess we're going with retreat then? I'll start writing.>And for the record, the choices presented are the ones most likely to occur to the perspective character. So 'other' is always an option.>For example: getting confronted about something embarrassing. Presented options are to be honest or to lie. That doesn't mean 'dive out the window to avoid the question' isn't an option, just one less likely to occur to the character in Question.>The lack or presence of options on the list is not, and has never been, the exclusive list of good actions. I've said before that 'other' is always an option, and that the listed options aren't always the best options. The only time it actually gets that kind of binary I either say something, or it's pretty obvious that left and right are the only real options.
>>31510199What were the other options with a chance of success? Why wouldn't Shirou think to attack?
>>31510199>I've said before that 'other' is always an option, and that the listed options aren't always the best options.What a shame that the only other options the players can ever come up with are apparently suicidal and retarded, because they don't understand the implications when they suggest them.
>>31510409>implying this quest wasn't built on shit like running over Berzerker or trolling Gilgamesh>implying the Jewel Sword heart plan didn't make as much sense as the current theory on what's going on with Avenger/Shirou
>>31510480Except AC-Guy flat-out told us it was stupid and suicidal.
>>31510571>implying I wasn't aware of that>implying that the current Avenger/Shirou theory isn't stupid
So what happened to the dude who was gonna dump Ilya smut?
>>31510738I was not expecting another thread so soon.I have also been procrastinating like a motherfucker. It should have been done hours ago.
>3+ hours between updatesSasuga AC-Guy.
>>31510913Because we've been arguing and debating like drunken asses without a clue in the world.
Rolled 8>>31510199>One hour laterThat's it, spinning the wheel.
It's been an hour, spin it!
>>31511302but what about the car? is it on fire?
>>31511264>>31511279>>31511302>I'm here, it's just....>I keep writing this shit out and it doesn't 'feel' right. I know the exact series of events, but for some reason I can't coherently put it into words.>I don't know why. Maybe it's the guys who were complaining abouyt the lack of clarity making me overanalyze shit or something, but everything I write either in no way resembles the flow of anything written previously, or doesn't seem like it's actually painting the proper picture of the situation.
>>31511393aaaaaaaand we broke him. fuck
>>31511393AC-Guy's writing is on fire
>>31511393I wouldn't blame you if you shelved it for the night and just slept on it, even if we haven't accomplished fuck all today.
>>31511393>Maybe it's the guys who were complaining abouyt the lack of clarity making me overanalyze shit or somethingHa. Haha. HAHAHAHAHAHA!
>>31511393Guys. Guys. Are you really fucking sure that leaving Archer in one room with Gilgamesh, Avenger and supercharged Assassin is the best we can come up with?Even if we aren't going to project a heart or Rule Breaker, our party has the goddamned Jeweled Sword and the actual Rule Breaker. Can't we blow this castle to hell and back, and stab everything that is left moving when the dust settles?
>>31511478Choo choo, motherfucker.
Rolled 7>>31511393Nigga, I set your car on fire. You better hurry your ass up or I'll set YOU on fire.
>>31511512Hey, be nice. You might make him overanalyze his fire detectors or something.
>>31511527Oh, he knows they work fine. They've been on constantly ever since he's started running the quest and now the sounds of fire detectors help him sleep at night.
So does anyone bitching remember when we specifically told AC-Guy to go fucking crazy and make this as hard as possible?So like, things like Archer probably getting killed, whatever is going on with Avenger.... We literally, specifically, and directly ASKED for it.And we're bitching to the point that we've broke the goddamn QM. What the fuck, people.
>>31511478I think big indiscriminate energy blasts are mostly going to be useless against Gil due to the whole "I've got a Phantasm for that!" thing, and Avenger can just kinda cower behind him if we start dropping nukes.
>>31511670What, asked for it or broke AC-Guy? Because the latter is debateable, since he might recover from our sudden bout of angry retardation.The former though, we did. We even had the Nowhere Man guy who is apparently a RL friend DIRECTLY WARN US that tempting his full wrath was a bad idea. Gimme ten minutes I could give you a thread and fucking POST number.
>>31511654>So does anyone bitching remember when we specifically told AC-Guy to go fucking crazy and make this as hard as possible?Go ahead and find the part where we asked him to obfuscate everything and make it impossible to know what is going on.There's a difference between playing a video game on hard mode and playing a video game set to Korean.>And we're bitching to the point that we've broke the goddamn QM.There's been like three of us criticizing total.
>>31511725Have you considered that due to long delays between threads maybe you fucking FORGOT some detail or another?When he ran that last thread a week or so ago, I went back and reread everything. And between what's happening now and his style or writing/running quests, I actually think I know what the fuck is going on.
>>31511760You're like the third person to claim that everything is pretty clear without bothering to explain what the fuck is going on. I'd welcome your attempt at explaining, because I've got a whole google doc full of notes and queries that I took during my last read of the ebook.
>>31511709>Gimme ten minutes I could give you a thread and fucking POST number.I'm still searching for this.
I vote to rule break MYSELF
>>31511896Just found it http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/21619110/#p21619567Only took me this long because I forgot the original post had been deleted.>>31511809It's 90% what >>31510071said, honestly. We read as 'Demon' when examining traits, and 'human' when getting magic scanned. My explanation is that we're somehow both at the same time.This probably has something to do with the Grail mud. It was either giving us a Demon Body, or was helping fuel our Quasi-Demon self. How/why this happened in the first place is beyond me, but since demons are literal manifested WISHES, and all the rampant desire and Wish magic getting thrown around at roughly the time this kickstarted, I can make an educated guess.Also, remember that at the end of the nightmare dream sequence, we saw an us that wasn't us. My interpretation is that after Kerry found us, the guilt overwhelmed us to the point of causing the Avenger/Shirou split.This is just off the top of my head. By all means, post a list here, or make a pastebin. We can go over that shit together.
>>31512025I'm failing to see where it was agreed that AC-Guy should make this as difficult as possible in the post you quoted. It's just a warning about triggering shit.I already posted the issues with Avalon's location, Shirou contracting Saber, and Avenger's movements prior to the war here >>31510180. Avenger being able to revoke our wish doesn't really make sense under the current theory either.
>>31512100>>31512025To add on to the issues/complaints about the current theory; it doesn't really help us make decisions. We don't really know how any of this impacts our actions. We don't know how to stabilize ourself. Apparently pure concentrated despair is an excellent anchor for some reason. Our only course of action right now is to run away and hope Kotomine is rejoicing in the living room and interested in sheathing something in Shirou.
So, looking back through the archive, I found this beauty (http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/22258035/#22263230), so running up and Rule Breakering Avenger might have been our best option since we could just burn a HP to auto-succeed.
God, are you all dumb? We have the motherfucking sword of Zelretch! We have 4 Servants on our side! Blast those faggots and ask questions after that!
>>31512100We were being kept alive with Grail mud he controls. Whether that was the 'wish' or not is debatable, but Sakura pulled the same shit with Kirei in Heaven's Feel.My theory was the split happened in the hospital becausehttp://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/26226268/#p26249078>When I open my eyes, I see my own concerned face reflected back at me. I blink, and I see another. The same, but different.If we got a body exactly like our old one, then how would Kerry know the difference? He would just know instinctively that the kid he saw for like ten minutes got swapped with one who was 100% completely identical as far as anyone could tell, and had the exact same memories and experiences?The Saber thing might not be innacurate. How do we know the exact same person in two places at once wouldn't read as 'one person' instead of 'two'? In Fate/Zero Saber couldn't tell where Kiritsugu was despite being bonded to him. So what if she just felt 'I am connected to Shirou' and never questioned if there was a weird ass possibly unique exception to this rule?>>31512163This is a fair point, but I feel the urge to point out something else that bugs me with the general complaining.This situation is at least partially our fault.We chose to sneak off with Archer, and try to set a trap for Zouken. We didn't know Zouken would be picking now to try and make a move, but then whether we could have anticipated that is debatable. We also had no idea that Gil and Avenger knew about his plan somehow and had a similar idea, assuming either we would kill him or they could kill him after he and his servant were weakened.I mean, we kinda know what happened NOW and maybe we could have GUESSED Zouken would try something drastic in the last few days of the war.... But we never even considered he might move first.>>31512176I would debate the merit of that plan, but only insofar as we only have 2HP at the moment. If you think we can swing the escape, then maybe.
>>31512176>or burn one for instant success/surviving something impossible.Over a year since that statement and not once have we been reminded of it.Thanks, AC-Guy. Shit like this is why I was asking for a goddamn info dump/collation/recap thread.
>>31512182I think it was a combination of frustration at the length of time spent discussing and the fact that Archer seemed to think fleeing was the best option.
>>31512176To be fair, there was a general sentiment to never ever consider doing that sort of thing ever again when it was brought up.Also, AC-Guy might have forgotten about it entirely. I sure the fuck did.
>>31512176>>31512238No sacrificing HP, we're in a pretty bad shape already. Maybe Shirou, Archer and Caster should use three Rule Breakers at once? One hit is all we need, after all. Don't spend HP on it before we're sure it will brong us the vixtory
>>31512215If the split happened in the hospital, then we didn't die, so we wouldn't split in the first place. Avenger Shirou has brown skin and hair, so Kerry would sure as shit notice if he stuck Avalon in a brown dude only for him to turn white and ginger later.>Sakura pulled the same shit with Kirei in Heaven's Feel.The issue is more that one of the created Shirou's arbitrarily has dominion over the other one.If Saber is contracted to both Avenger and Shirou, she should've been swimming in prana. This still doesn't explain why she only needed Shirou for the initial contract but would need both for subsequent contracts. She also presumably should've still been contracted to Saber once Shirou was hit with Rule Breaker. Avenger also should've been sharing the command seals. >This situation is at least partially our fault.No one's complaining about Zouken (other than the bullshit of Archer freaking out about Grail Mud when he had no alternative, marking the latest in a long line of every non-Shirou character being worthless). Most of the bitching here has been about how incredibly cryptic AC-Guy has been and how little information other characters have been able to provide.>we only have 2HPWe only failed one roll, and that (shouldn't) have even been a major one given that we have four servants there to aid us. We should have 3HP, and Rule Breakering Avenger should pretty much finish the fight.
>>31512284>implying Shirou and Archer can't throw like fifty RBs each per second>implying Caster will risk her original when Shirou and Archer and just fart them out for funsiesRemember, we only need to put enough effort in to get the 'severs contracts' effect working. Throwing out half-assed shonky knockoffs that would make a Chinese sweatshop jealous should be fine.
>>31512182This guy has his priorities right.Archived the thread, anyway.
>>31512308We failed two rolls. The "not get ass kicked by Assassin" and the "Die, monster" one.
Previous Thread:>Roll to not die.>Roll to not die.>Roll to not die.>Roll to not die.>You died? Cliffhanger.ITT:>Roll to not die.>Roll to not die.>Roll to not die.>Figure out the entire master plan right fucking now or Archer dies!Choo choo, motherfucker.Yeah, nah. I'm out. Seriously, thanks for the ride 'til now, AC-Guy. It was a real blast, but that's about as much as I can take.I hope you guys can enjoy the rest of... whatever the fuck this turned into.
>>31512495>mfw we escape and Archer single-handedly deals with both Gil and Avenger
Jesus.I miss two threads and this happens. What the hell is even going on? AC-Guy had a plot twist happen and everything went into a goddamn meltdown.
>>31512495I'd direct you to railroad quest, but I'm not sure if its on sup/tg/ or not
>>31512640Because he's never explained anything, nobody understands what the plot twist actually means, how we can fix things, or even how we're supposed to survive.
>last story post was almost six hours ago
Grow some balls! Just go in there and fight! Kombat TIME!
>AC-Guy @ArmoredQuest 6 mins>God. That was the worst thread ever. Not only was it not finished, everything kinda went to hell pretty much immediately.You busted it, guize
>>31512734god is everyone like this?I'm not sure if this will achieve that ehhh why must people not tell me what is going on eeeehhhI'm surprised you got anywhere in life
>literally one option given>people shitstormed the thread into oblivionGood job
QM VERSUS PLAYER MENTALITY STRIKES AGAIN
>>31512870COCKSUCKING WHINGERS STRIKE AGAIN
>>31512640The usual, some people can't handle imperfect information or the idea that villains aren't going to conveniently lay out their plans and trump cards beforehand. It happens pretty frequently during any sort of plot twist or big oh shit moment.>>31512734All seems relatively clear to me. We don't have all the answers nor should we, but we know enough to start piecing things together. You need to stop throwing your hands up in the air just because all the answers aren't being conveniently handed to you. As for how to survive, it's pretty fucking obvious that even if we don't know the exact HOW of the matter we'll survive just fine if we follow Archer's advice and let him do his thing while we regroup, that's generally how these things work. We're not going to get fucked because we followed the only realistic option presented to us.
>>31512903Archer, on the other hand, is going to get fucked.
>>31512734You see, people keep saying that, but then people try and offer explanations only to get told 'no that's impossible because reasons'.And it's like.... how do you know?I remember there was a small but dedicated group of people screaming that Gilgamesh was worth multiple servants in Mana even after AC-Guy specifically said that it was not the case.Maybe he did tell us, or there was a clue we overlooked a while ago. Shit, things happening here are our fault, since we were forcing Zouken and Avenger to switch up their game-plans and be more active because we ran around meddling with everything.I mean, we're almost sixty goddamn threads in. There's a lot of things we could have triggered or changed around that we don't remember, or some clues we've overlooked. Was this AC-Guy's fault for being 2subtle4u or our fault for not realizing what the fuck we were looking at? Some combination of the two?Are we just making assumptions about shit we shouldn't and not correcting ourselves?Is AC-Guy really obligated to bail us out when we braid and string our own rope and then try to hang ourselves when the 'correct' action was right there in front of us?Where does player agency end on this one? Either AC-Guy is railroading us through a story we never had input on, or we're facing the consequences of the actions that lead us to this point.This is a conversation we're NOT HAVING. We should have this conversation when/if AC-Guy's willing to come back because HOLY SHIT. We clearly have some kinda disconnect over what the fuck should be happening both in and out of game, rifts within the playerbase, and we are apparently so will to shitstorm over this as to bring the experience to a sudden screeching halt because people are convinced that shoving a sword into our chest is our only hope of a positive outcome.
>>31512914Yes, yes he is. That seems to be a recurring theme for Archer. He gets off on the selfless hero gig though, even if he claims otherwise.
>>31512950>>31512928And this is bad, because sacrificing Archers is bad.
>>31512970But is it worse than EVERYBODY dying right now? Because we're gonna lose everybody but Rider in terms of combat assets if things go south right now.
>>31512970No it's notAll Servants sans Arturia are expendable by definition because they're already dead. Moreso EMIYA, since he actually doesn't mind dying for a good cause, not to mention there's nothing for him in this time/world anymoreSacrificing him is a pretty optimized action
>>31512922>Was this AC-Guy's fault for being 2subtle4uYes.Where do you think we are?/tg/ doesn't do subtle.And 'subtle' QM's who think they're being obvious really aren't. They think they are because they have the notes and know what they're doing. The players don't.If you don't point to it with a giant neon sign that reads "THIS IS THE CLUE, GUYS!", it will be brushed over and ignored.
>>31512992The question is: how high is the chance that the things will in fact go south?Right now we have most of our combat-capable assets in one place, and Avenger most likely does not have any traps laid here — he was planning to just gank Zouken. Heck, we might be even able to seduce the Assassin into fighting for us.Shirou just needs to literally hold his shit together — I assume we're running on the force of will right now, Zouken style. On the minus side, our own magic has likely diminished greatly, but I don't know if we can regain it even if we find some anchor to hold our existence in place, instead of that lump of evil gunk.
>>31512970Not much that can realistically be done about it. He's probably running on fumes at this point, so his ability to actually counter Gil in anything more than a stalling capacity is questionable at best. We're even worse off than he is to the point of being dead weight with maaaybe one or two bursts of action left in us if we're optimistic, and just throwing more Servants into the fight isn't a good against Gil because he can just go on the defensive with GoB spam and wait for Archer to burn through his very limited mana reserves.And then there is Avenger too, and while he's a bit of a punk himself he could potentially summon those shadow-monster/servant things again and muck everything up if we try to turn this into a team fight.
>>31512922There won't be any discussion. Next thread will just be DIVE HEADFIRST INTO PLOT and the same fucking thing will happen.AC-Guy has refused, flat out, to even TRY to discuss how this quest is being run. We should have had a pow-wow two threads ago, but instead he just threw baited hooks so he could force his totally amazing and not predictable at all plot twist at us and then drown in accolades.Except there's no accolades to be had when nobody can even see the plotlines as they twist.>>31509265And you. FUCK you. Either sum up all the shit we've been told that is relevant to the plot, or fuck off. You're doing nothing but waving your dick around and crowing about how AC-Guy is sharing the notes with you, and that is nothing but attentionwhore shitstirring.
Instead of shitposting, concentrate on actually deciding something.See>>31513136And>>31512182We'll end this madness right here. And if we blast them without getting answers, we can always ask AC-Guy for an extra "explaining tiem" thread
>>31513141Those shadow monsters were all raped by Rin with the jewel sword alone in HF.
>>31513453Going all in here will just end with a bunch of us dead. That's pretty clear.
>>31513453>>31513466As long as Gilgamesh is there, I wouldn't try to fight them head on. Gilgamesh was capable of finishing the 4th war in a single night if he actually bothered to get off his ass.
>>31513491And yet was defeated in all 3 routes in F/SN.
>>31513525And we don't have any of the tools that allowed him to be beaten yet. We don't have a fully charged UBW (Archer has been running without a Master for a LONG time, his isn't going to do shit in terms of actually killing him) and Saber doesn't have Avalon. Just mindlessly bumrushing him, which is the extent of our team's capabilities at the moment, will not work, and people will die.
>>31513525Hence the 'bothered to get off his ass'Gilgamesh doesn't take things seriously and half asses everything. But if you get him just slightly riled up then you're fucked.
Rolled 8>>31513564Don't forget, Sakura doesn't have her vaginamonsters anymore either; which is what killed him in HF.
So, how about this:- Archer stalls Gil with UBW- Rin blasts shadow minions with Jeweled Sword and causes a general commotion- Someone (maybe buffed Souichirou, maybe Shirou) keeps Assassin down.Everione else Gay Bulges / stabs / Rule Breaks Avenger.Hopefully, when Avenger is defeated, Shirou gets a second wind — I don't know what exactly — and we get to spam projections at KinKaiser.Alternatively, Saber seduces KinKaiser, while everyone else ganks Avenger.
>>31513642UBW has a cast time. Good luck staying alive that long.
>>31513642>spoiler[x]Promise Gil a date with Saber right now if he ganks Avenger for us.
>>31513453>>31513642That's the point! Gil and Archer will go to UBW, leaving Avenger ALL GODDAMN alone against us.
>>31513660In that case we're dead anyway, because Archer won't be able to stall Gil and Avenger fo long enough to let us escape
>>31513675Archer can by spamming normally which will eventually wear him down rather than UBW which would let him go toe to toe against Gilgamesh but needs set up time.
>>31513692In UBW route he kicked Saber away and managed to complete the chant before she got up and beheaded him with Excalibur.
>>31513703That's because they were talking. You think Gilgamesh is going to stop and have a chat?Well he does talk a lot but usually while he's chucking weapons at you.
>all these cool fight plans>next thread will open with everyone booking it and leaving Archer to die
>>31513741If they were talking, then how did Archer chanted the spell?"Unknown to death, so Saber, when will you, nor know to life, drop this stupid idea of yours, have withood pain, you know, the one about wishing for not becoming the king in the first place, to create many weapons"?
>>31513799How the fuck do I know? But that's what happens in the VN. http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20211/
>>31513767And I probably won't be even there to vote for fighting
>>31513814So it may as well happen in this quest. Archer stalls Gil while we fuck up Avenger.We'll never have better situation. We won't get Avalon to give it to Saber, we can't use UBW at all if Archer dies and Sakura is not the fake grail anymore. We either win now or die soon.
>>31513913Yes but how do we stop Archer from becoming a pin cushion for Gilgamesh weapon storage?
>>31513941We pray that he can last against Gil longer than Avenger can last against all of us combined.
>>31513836No, there won't be a vote. We already voted, and running won.
This whole meltdown reminds me of the one in Peter Parker Quest where the players kept failing rolls, and decided to take it out on Cosgrove to the point where he would have taken rolling out entirely..
>>31514576Poor Cosgrove. His players are poor as well, always having problems with /tg/ dice. At least in Bleach Quest it was kinda funny.>>31514138Of course he can. Even Shirou was able of fending Gil's swords for a while
>>31514329Yes, but AC-Guy apparently saw the clusterfuck happening between players and decided to end it before we rip him apart. I guess he will tell us to vote once again, just to make sure what the consensus was (and I mean consensus, not just a bunch of ragequiting whiners)
>>31514944>all this shitstorm>well, it can't get much worse>checking sup tg>new F/SA thread archived>it's actually current /qtg/>today's clearly not our day
If we do decide to fight, my vote is for:- Archer stalls Gil for at least a few seconds- Rin + Caster lay down suppressing fire at any mud-servants- Saber protects masters/caster from any sword spam that comes their way- Rider gets a projected Rule Breaker (she normally fights with what are basically knives) and uses her incredible speed to try to stab Avenger- Lancer covers her, giving her protection from stray sword spam (he has Protection from Arrows) and a little extra help ganking Avenger- Then hopefully between Shirou, Souichiro (is he here?), and Bazett, Assassin can be checked if he even still has a reason to fightHonestly, it shouldn't take more than a few seconds for Rider + Lancer to corner and shank Avenger. In combat capabilities he's generally been weaker than us, and we can't last more than a few seconds against a servant, let alone two. And if we can't stall Gil for more than a few seconds, there's no way we could escape any how.
>>31516092Souichirou is here. Rider and Bazette, however, aren't