Let's keep up the good work /tg/Finish Primarch fluffFinally get cracking on crusade events fluff once we're doneDig into some of the heresy fluffThe wiki: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_/tg/_HeresyThe google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TAl_Rh3q0UR3cqX6Pbn-4TnB87BS-GrFrax-ErtOL2E/edit
Mouse shit the bed. Hate using the touchscreen. Will be back later.
>>34501329What we currently have on Rook North:Appearance>nothing to my knowledgeYouth>may have landed on ghost world>was trained in combat, warfare and general knowledge by a tutor-AI>may have been a good AI, may have been evil>either way, AI is his first friend>may have landed on technologically advanced world>may have been raised by a common family, in a world where knowledge was hoarded by the elites>was the first commoner to go to the Lighthouse, where the great minds would go>eventually rules Lighthouse and develops plasma weaponsIt seems to me like figuring out his youth should be the first step.
>>34501479I don't like the tutor-ai thing but have no interest in the latter option. We can definitely have Rook as "Crusoe" without raping the setting, because he could just learn from books (and maybe a simple machine).
>>34501479We have to wait on him finishing dinner and he has to catch up with everything that was said in the last thread.Personally I think I'm just gonna go to bed. I will see what you guys decided tomorrow.Don't get rid of the Plasma.
>>34501479Just have the "AI" be a big memory-machine, full of data. A giant encyclopedia, if you will, put there to record the ghost-world's history, peoples, and culture forever, which Rook could have learned from. Just please, please, please don't have it be an AI, unless you want to have it be Chaotic, and write about how Rook was forced to kill it, or forced to watch while the Emperor killed it (And then the Emperor would have to brutally interrogate Rook, for fear he was tainted or possessed by an AI).
>>34501479Also AI WILL get killed by Emperor, AI are a no-go in the Imperium for a reason.
>>34501552We'll keep the Plasma burning, brother.>>34501522I was a pretty big fan of this one (from previous thread):>AI turns out to be evil after all>Rook was being manipulated. When Emps shows him what it means to have a REAL FRIEND, Rook kills his AI tutor for betraying him, swearing never to abide by treason again, and to treat humanity as his truest friend from that day forth. You could also get great Rook/Emps buddy moments during the AI campaign.We could go with "Rook considered the humans long gone his friends, avenged them by killing the AI that raised him but also killed off all the people from that world."There was also some support for breaking the setting by having the AI be the one to volunteer for death, but I agree that that's too far gone.
>>34501578It would need to be able to play him recordings, unless he's got super Primarch genetic reading.
>>34501479>>34501522>>34501552We need to wait for Rook. I don't like working on someone else's Primarch while they're away. Please people. It's really not productive.>>34501597That withstanding, I really like this option.
>>34501479Finally, how will a machine make Rook learn how to empathize and lead people?Leading the greatest minds of his planet during his entire youth would do a better job at that.
>>34501616This is absolutely right. We'll hold off on Rook until he's back.Anything else that could be fleshed out while we wait?
>>34501622If he already knows how to lead, then the current story about him being made to enlist as an ordinary soldier in the Thirteenth doesn't make sense.
So I've been thinking of adding more Legion traditions for the Cataphracts, namely great displays of power and force involving massive parades with their auxiliaries marching in tow with them. This was at first done to piss of Alexandri, who hates military parades. Sergei was able to transform it from a simple means of making the Primarch mad to a full on tool to change the hearts and the minds of the conquered. If they joined peacefully, it shows the great choice they made.If they fought, but surrendered, it showed that they were now part a bigger union of mankind, and not to fear.If they fought, and were defeated in war utterly, it showed them never to try anything like that shit again.Thoughts?
>>34501683I like where you're sourcing it from, but it does put the 'phracts really close regular citizens. Unless they only come around every few decades and the parade is part of their testing/recruiting routine?"Are you man enough to march with me?"
>>34501683>If they fought, but surrendered, it showed that they were now part a bigger union of mankind, and not to fear.I don't know, that would scre the ever living shit out of me.
>>34501718Didn't consider that, but yeah. They could probably only keep this up in their Legion days. But maybe Successor chapters do this with their recruiting worlds or worlds they campaign on, to keep the legacy alive.>>34501729The men marching and the banners would be reinforcing this idea that yes, you fought us, but now you are a PART of us, and we are here to defend you.It is the whole Rosskan mentality of, the more devious and stronger the ruler the better they are for leadership.
>>34501781Eh, I think it's OK if they scare the locals as well as inspire them. Those who have confidence in the Imperium will feel better, would-be traitors will be daunted. Win-win, right?
I'm gonna go you guys, super tired. Have a good one and hold down the thread while I'm away.
>>34501329Like their Primarch, the Barrow Lords have many faces. In times of peace, the Barrow Lords are the defenders of trade-fleets, ever quick to rescue a stricken ship, and even given to trade themselves.They’re primarily drawn from space-born merchant guilds, the KadoshimThey believe that control of the void is the strength of the Imperium and accordingly engage in ship-building and orbital defense construction.One might expect such a chapter to fight like the Imperial Fists with whom they share so much in domain. But this is not the case.When the Barrow Lords march to war, it is not primarily with the rumble of mighty armadas and the roar of macrocannons. This happens, and the Barrow Lords are famed for their excellence in this domain, but the Barrow Lords prefer far subtler methods.A favourite is economic warfare, but this requires time and trade. None-the-less, entire regions were annexed simply by making their economies dependant upon the Imperium or by crippling stock markets and enraging the populace against their overlords. Even today, the Barrow Lords and their sucessors, particularly the Coin Callers, keep systems in line by managing their economies through labyrinthine holding companies, crashing the finances of anyone who would try to defy the Imperium.Against Xenos and Traitors, the Barrow Lords truly enter their element.Their tradition taught that the habitable spaces were far and few and the dangers great. The truth of reality was darkness. But from the void came many things. From it came the screaming daemons that sometimes intruded on ships, but also from it came the gift of navigation and psykers.The dark was a place of danger, but also of opportunity for a wise and worthy warrior, provided they could master the monster within.
>>34501967The Kadoshim did not believe their ancient stories, but they were important none the less.They said that the gods had tried fashioning man, Dagon, the fish man, had made them in the form of terrible beasts, full of a raging hunger and ferocity.The other gods were horrified, and wished to destroy it, but Dagon said that alone among the gods, he and his brother Yam were from the void and knew the terrors that waited there. Man would have to be a monster if it was to survive amongst monsters.However, the Ba'al Hadam (Who was later to be identiified with the god emperor) said that if they were to be worthy of existence, they must be more than monsters, and so clothed humanity in their sacred and fair form.Thus it was that humanity was made.As such, when the Barrow Lords go to war, it is with the inner beast in mind.Terminators clad in camo-cloaks are infiltrated down to the planet, warp-sorcery employed to make the marines spectral. They wait until everything is in place to strike.A favorite tactic is to drop ships out of warp and glide silently through the darkness, systems powered down, a spread of torpedoes launched in advance. Evading sensors, the ships power up at point blank range, seconds after the torpedoes impact their targets. The fleet bombards, while every concievable aircraft is scrambled; aircraft being the traditional mount of the aristocracy.The Barrow Lords themselves deploy from their transports or teleport in surrounded by psychically generated warp-fire, striking unnatural fear into the hearts of their enemies, for in war, the legion unleashes its Librarius with the goal of spreading fear and confusion amongst the enemy ranks. Infiltrated forces de-cloak and attack. Such battles are swift and brutal, often turning into frenzied melees before the transport aircraft return and the phantasmal marines vanish as suddenly as they appeared.
>>34501967Two things.1. No Imperial Fists to contrast in the AU.2. More controversially... these guys just don't seem very Space Marine to me. Crippling stock markets and choking trade is too prominent. I recommend that you keep the guilds around (and have them do that) but have the Barrow Lords take a step away from trade and towards zero-G warfare, orbital drops, that kind of thing.
>>34501967Objections aside, you're probably the AU's Deathwatch.
>>34501990As far as they are concerned, the Barrow Lords are the true predators of the Great Ocean. Like their primarch and like the gods of the old epics, they are benevolent to the just, but a terror against those who resist.In general, a force consists of Fire Raptors, Storm Eagles, Thunderhawks, Caestii, Stormwolves?, a few Sicarans, valued for their ability to keep up and hit hard, and heavy infantry, such as heavy support squads, breacher squads, and terminators.Against harder points, the legion will air drop Typhon and Ceberus siege tanks as well as land raiders.Actually, air dropped Land Raiders are a favored tactic in general.I'm still thinking they go for the supernatural terror angle whenever they can, mostly through the judicious use of Librarians, but also through trophy taking.Alright, going to bed this time. For reals.
Alright, I'm heading to bed. Cya gents tomorrow.
>>34501479I just got back and I've got to say I like the first more. The "having-to-kill-your-bestfriend" thing could lead to interesting character development, although a simple computer and books is easier to explain.
>>345020601. Yeah, that was mostly for you all.2. They probably use the chapter serfs to do that, with a Marine or two to keep an eye on it. It'd be behind the scenes anyways.Mostly they're star fleet and brutal zero-g, landing, exactly what you suggest.
>>34502127I'm probably going to follow suit pretty soon.
>>34502129OK, before you go you should probably pick one. Having the AI means some setting wrinkles and introduces a really traumatic event into Rook's history, but if you want it we can do it.
>>34502149Before ya do, and before I do, what does Rook think of Alexandri and the Cataphracts?
>>34502178If everyone is ok with it the AI could explain some of his longing for companionship, and it would fit his character well.>>34502179This feels really shitty to say, but I don't know anything about your Primarch. The little time I've been spending in the threads has been dominated by heated debate. As soon as you have information about Alexandri on the wiki, I'll let you know.
>>34502090Ok, one more thing:Barrow Lords: Sargon Ereskigal--Merchant, General, Master of the Void. Incredibly fond of stories and legends. Powerful psyker. A pragmatist, but tends to see everything in terms of myth and legend; rather concerned about how history will remember all this. In battle, he adopts the persona of a destroyer god, who comes from the deeps to rain fire upon the unworthy. His legion are daemons and beasts unleashed from the darkest places beyond the stars.It’s how he reconciles his role as destroyer and death-bringer in void warfare.Troubled childhood? Engaged in void-warfare from a young age? Saw his foster-brother suffocate when a section was depressurized? Kadoshim culture meant that he had to tell the tale of his brother? His brother had died afraid and in agony, but, with everyone around him, looking for something, Sargon made up a story, told his first real lie, about how his brother had died a hero. Sargon hasn’t stopped lying since.What do you all think of this?
>>34502283He can long for fellowship just by knowing that there were other humans but he never meets any. My narrative concern about the AI is that it puts a rift between him and the Emperor. Is that something you want?
>>34502335I think I'm ok with it. Maybe it doesn't build into a huge thing.Or maybe that rift is one of the reasons Rook stays on the fence for so long. Maybe if it weren't for Roman, he would have fallen to Chaos. Maybe some of his beliefs are eerily similar to Tzeench. Maybe there's a second founding traitor Nova Chapter who believes their primarch would have embraced Tzeench if he had only known. The Nova Sons.Of course that's all hypothetical.
>>34502416OK. Well, we should see if Arelex can deal with the AI factor, as it's a big deal for him.
>>34501329Alomst done, just need one last Traitor legion, and preferrably one that stays traitor for the Seocnd Wave.One thing I've noticed. In OTL Isstvan, all the traitor Legions were present on Isstvan. Here, a good 1/3rd of them never went there. Can we work out who was never there and why? And how did Hektor trust them without having them blooded in His name on Isstvan?
>>34502628By default, I'd suggest the Black Augurs. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be there, and they are the Thousand Sons of the ATL.
okay reading up on the last thread and this one - we seem to have a new Legion - the Barrow Lords? What exactly is their archetype = cos atm its warp related and trade.Also - Arelex is a politician too now? On top of being a super smart, gorilla doctor octopus?(just an observation)I think the Rook AI thing is ok, so long as the Emps destroys it when he lands - cos thats exactly what he would do. And it seems like my Legion is kind of pointless at this point, what with all the political and espionage skills the other primarchs seem to have on top of their strategic mastery/scienceandtech mastery. I mean shit , the primarchs are *meant* to embody ONE maybe TWO character archetypes - things that define them.Our AU seems to have several archetypes per primarch. You can't sum up most of our AU's primarchs in a sentence, which you should be able to do. There is more to them than that sentence, but you should be able to sum them up and what archetype they are in a sentence.Not to mention the fact half of our primarchs/legion have a dark secret, but are somehow loyalist. I'd encourage depth, but dark secrets on how you differ from the codex get kind of weird when everyone has one. It kind of make the codex pointless. Even more so when the deviances are apparently just open for all to see. but what the fuck does my opinion matter.
>>34503616Your opinion matters to me, Uriel. Your ideas and suggestions are consistently good. This post is no exception, but I do think you're being a bit impatient. Consider this the brainstorming phase, let people get all their ideas down, and then we can farm out the inessential bits to Successors.
>>34503616Incidentally, if you think Lumey and the Void Angels are doing too much, let me know. You have a very good eye for this kind of thing.
>>34503720I have no problem with people brainstorming - previously I was reverting to the way my old job used to do things where you get things done then go onto the next thing and double back if need be.But this *is* getting silly - I get it, we all want our primarchs to be cool and interesting. But there is a point where you have added too much. A lot of people are past that point - with essentially 'jack of very few trades masters of many', vibes going around. Thats bad writing. The Primarchs each embody one archetype - the executioner, the protector, the politician, the administrator etc. But it seems the way things work out, we have everyone vying for the same positions - or some people having like 3-4. I like you guys - the concepts have just been taken too far now, everyone is meant to represent an individual piece of a puzzle, that fits together to make a whole picture.Not a whole puzzle/large part of the big puzzle unto themselves. to reiterate - I'm fine with brainstorming - but people need to stick to ONE maybe 2 tops archetypes. That archetype is your personality and informs your abilities etc. Real life is more complex sure, but this is fiction we are writing here.
>>34503788My hunch is that folks have been thinking about their Primarch by comparison to regular people (or at least Space Marines), so all the claims about great politician, soldier, etc, etc, etc - they're true, because they're Primarchs, right? But the problem comes when we have to make comparison among the Primarchs.So we should really try to get people to work out how the Primarchs stand out from the others. Uriel's a good example - he is the Mastermind. I think Lumey is clear as the Regulator, designed by the Emperor to mistrust his siblings and put an end to their ambitions. (In the Heresy, Lumey failed: he was too hostile and distant to really know what was going on.) Golgothos has a really tight concept, maybe too tight. Brennus (the Magistrate) and Alexandri (the Regent) are pretty clear.
>>34503731nah I'm catching up on Lumey/Void Angels backstory etc, but by our AU standards it seems solid.I'm trying to keep what we do reasonable and believable (within the bounds of both 40k and writing in general)My old job involved writing fiction heavily. And I'm trying to bring what I learned doing that here, to make this well thought out and have an interesting dynamic - I know i have to make sacrifices to remain inclusive, but there is a point where you have to stop shit spiraling out of control. I have to go out all today to get stuff for my new job starting monday, and i'm out til late with some friends as this will be the last time i get to see them.So whatever I say now is kind of pointless anyway at this point, cos I seem to be the only one trying to keep everyone grounded and reasonable. To the point it's taking me forever to get my own fluff done cos im rapidly becoming that annoying killjoy that takes everyone's 'interesting character ideas' and 'makes them boring and balanced to the reader'. There should be lots of discussion about stuff - but gradually expanding your primarch into a master/expert at the majority of the skills the Marines ply is just going into marysue ThatGuy territory - and I've been with you guys since day one - none of you are like that. Its just what happens when you hold onto a character for too long when writing. But it needs to be reigned in.But not in this case cos i'm gone for another day and no-one shares my (actually professionally informed) views on writing shit.
>>34503886We all have to bring our own strengths to the table, right? I'll keep what you've said in mind and try to ease people back in the next 24, but you may need to come in and bad cop after that. Either way, I think you've made good points that need to be respected and I'm sure that other anons will get onboard.
>>34503875>My hunch is that folks have been thinking about their Primarch by comparison to regular peopleThat seems fine at first - but its a bad point of reference. Its implied that the Primarchs are just better at shit than your average person/marine.They need to using the other Primarchs as their point of reference. Otherwise everyone is just gonna appear to be the same.If thats how people have been writing it - they need to change their stuff to get rid of it.You don't need to tell readers that a Primarch is better at [x skill] than the average human/marine.Its implied by being a fucking Primarch. They don't need to mention minor skills.
>>34503928okay thanks man. How I enjoy being the 'bad guy' lelAnyway I have to go now and get ready etc. Have fun Lumey
>>34503953Agree 100%.>>34503971Cool. Thanks and, again, grats on the new job.
I've made a Primarch Gallery for the 1d4chan Page like the one in the actual Primarch page. That way we can clean up and remove the large portraits which make the page appear cluttered.
Alright, wanted to add just a few ideas real quick.1) about the AI for Rook, had an idea. Anyone ever read the short story "I Have No Mouth Yet I Must Scream?" We could have an AI like that. It killed off all the humans, but it needs a plaything around, something to torment. It accidentally killed off the ones it had when Rook lands. But Rook isn't any fun. He needs this thing to learn and grow, to know how to take care of itself and be knowledgeable, so that when the torment starts, he'll fully appreciate exactly how horrible everything is.Children of Armok, I do agree with you. It does seem that some of us are branching out too much. Not seeing the politician bit, unless you were referring to us kind of playing out the council of Nikea yesterday.Need to figure out how to archive this thread.
>>34506394Too meta/existential and it doesn't show any particular strong point from the Primarch.Unless you make it about how Rook will somehow fight back against the AI, but for that he will need an army. 40k is about the battlefield after all.
>>34506508No, agreed, I'm just putting that out as a springboard. It's giving the AI a reason to want to educate him, to bring him up to know how shit works, the ends to the manipulation.
>>34506394Na the playing out Nikaea was bretty cool That was in reference to Arelex and a few others who at some point have gained super political/persuasion skills to go with their strategic genius/crazy levels of tech etc.My deal with that, is that the only 2 primarchs who really should be great politicians and orators are Hektor, as he plays Horus's role, and Uriel - seeing as that is literally my wheelhouse, we don't have special xenos, foresight magic, super bad ass tech etc we're just political operators and spymasters. The truth is we all want a cool primarch to take part in cool events and generally be a badass and interesting guy. But the reason the 40k universe Primarchs are interesting, and interact in cool ways, is because they are all a single archetype. But with our AU, anons are taking 2-4+ archetypes *each*, meaning you can't have interesting interactions cos people are basically all a little bit the same.I'm not trying to make people cut out the stuff that makes sense - but for example, and I genuinely apologise Arelex, you're just the clearest cut example i can make but you are far from the only or the worst, but you have gone from a tech/knowledge obsessed guy who is averse to the chaos of closecombat, to a politician, empire builder, super strength gorilla like beast of a primarch, with super awesome tech and your only flaw is that you aren't good at closecombat - which isnt much of a flaw when you have 4 heavy bolters to fucking blow anything away that gets close anyway.I dont care about the 4 bolters any more - but you see my point? You have gone from the smart scribe warrior everyone underestimates but triumphs by using his obsession with data and science to get an edge from stuff everyone else overlooks, to essentially be a primarch that is outshining Hektor himself.They are primarchs, they can be mary sue, although, even the GW ones, while they are mary sue, most of them have *serious* character flaws to counter it.
>>34506534We don't have much freedom when it comes to the AI.Either we make it friendly, something that was an asset to Rook and his planet. Something that he will grieve upon when the Emperor comes and destroy it -> Which is VERY "Reason to fall to Chaos"Or we have the AI be an hostile, and that implies Rook being the one who will help the planet get rid of the AI -> That involve army, leadership, smart enough to defeat an AI.Or we have to scrap the whole thing.
>>34506544Alright, I get you. I must've missed the politician bit. I did try and give an alternative to the 4 Bolters, but it never went anywhere. I think we should take a look at all the overdone stuff in people's Primarch's, and figure out how to downplay some of the OP.>>34506570How about this? The planet WAS populated, Rook lands in the middle of the AI's core area. It raises him as a special plaything, he escapes and find how it's been just doing horrible, fucked up shit to all the inhabitants, so he uses what he knows about it, and raises the people into an army in order to defeat it?
>>34506544Just to say, I totally agree.I'm going to say this though, we have a massive problem with Rook, because his creator essentially when the thing to be a self-insert that somehow can thrive in 40k by being smaller, read books, have no friends for all his youth,And THEN suddenly become the "I love that Primarch so much I could die for him" Primarch.Rook North is a clusterfuck, the problem is you have people who are so invested in it that they refuse to see the problem either because they want to be nice to Rook, or they have interests in keeping the Nova Legion as it is.A lot of Primarch need us sitting and sorting thigs out, the problem is we are obviously going to have "heated" debates about it, else the 4-5 archetypes Primarch with the less 40k traits you could imagine will get in.
>>34506570Rook and the Novamarines stay loyal. The AI thing could just be a servitor/group of servitors ?That way they can educate him and stuff, but they don't provide any real social interaction for him.That said, without the social interaction at all - he would never be a level headed social operator when he meets real people. And that is a tad more more interesting than the whole 'compassion marines' thing he or someone else aimed them for. As compassion is limited in use to humans. You can't show compassion to xenos - the Emperor won't allow it, the Great Crusade is about uniting the human worlds and fucking up xenos...
>>34506609And now THE problem.Rook North, Gaspard Lumey, and Second Founding guy DO NOT want the planet to be populated.I've proposed to have the planet be populated TWO threads ago, you can guess what happened to that suggestion.Your version would be better than what we might end up with if they get stuck on their Isolation fantasy.Although nothing in it shows a specific trait the Primarch would be about. All primarchs can raise armies.
>>34506629Rook as John Connor could be fun.Also, back for the day.
>>34506628I hate to say it, but well said. So, how should we go about fixing it? I like the basic beginning and end to the Primarch, education and solitude -> creating an extremely close-knit legion/dying for them.What I said above has to stay, just had a sudden epiphany. He doesn't create the best legion. He creates the Ultramarines. They're a well-rounded Legion, good at a bunch of stuff, but not very good at anything. It's his death that unites/galvanizes them, as they've all got some little connection to the man.
>>34506695Not very good at anything specific*
>>34506628we *do* need to do that - everyone caved and let their primarch die/go awol, now they just need to fit an archetype so we all interact in interesting ways. At the moment the star Primarch is Hektor, and most of the other Primarchs outshine him and are more powerful than him to the point you wonder how exactly he is accepted as the warmaster, aside from 1)its canon , and 2) heisjustareallyniceguyand Rook needs some work - i like the suggestion >>34506609 Merrill puts forward - it would make some sense as to why he's suddenly charismatic etc. But even that has some gaping holes of plot to contend with. I think the biggest problem is getting people to actually agree/tone their stuff down. Even if we are really nice about it, we're going to come across as the NoBadFun Police, however correct and accurate our critiques are. But while they may get stubborn - they aren't assholes - its natural to want to prevent your creation being cut down. And we need to maintain a respectful if sometimes blunt attitude towards them - they are our fellow co-authors on this project. Falling out by getting into pissing matches is gonna do fuck all except prove that when in /tg/ you can only bet on Duke, as /tg/ doesn't actually get shit done.
>>34506629> the whole 'compassion marines' thing he or someone else aimed them for. As compassion is limited in use to humans.I've tried to tell them exactly that for two fucking threads! But not too long ago you have this guy saying the equivalent of "they are so bros, it makes them good, because Rook can into feels".It's a world where the IG has to throw BILLIONS of people into the grinding just to not lose. EVEN Space Marines have to do that sometimes, how the HELL can compassion be an asset in all that??
>>34506714Well, you seem to be the best at going through with this stuff, I'll volunteer to be the sacrificial lamb. Any suggestions as to what I should change in my own bits?
>>34506695>>34506679 why not have him literally go John Connor - an AI thats fucked up nearly all the planets population - and Rook North puts together a resistance after the machines educate him to be their ''ambassador'', he just switches sides when he meets people - because they show him compassion etc, and he learns it all from their = He would naturally rise to become the leader in a small, close-knit survival against superior odds scenario, and it actually fits his ethos and personality and legions operational methods.
>>34506629If you track back, the guy pushing Novamarines as Compassionmarines was Nathanog, so he had a straw man called Rook North to flog. Similarly, the charisma thing? Not a thing. On the wiki, Rook's defining leadership trait is that he went through basic the same way that the rest of the Legion did.
>>34506748I like it. Now we just have to sell it to Rook.
>>34506748Because then you get another small unit stealth guy.
>>34506715It sure as shit seems to work for the Salamanders. It's the big reason why almost none of them went to chaos despite Lorgar's best efforts.So a consideration. What if Rook North was the Emperor's creation as a liaison between astartes and normal men? He would be the embodiment of the peaceful relation between humankind and their protectors that would be desired or even needed once the crusade was complete and mankind stood ascendant over the galaxy. To that end, being the bro-tier marines makes sense, because their whole thing is to be closely tied to the human population. It would also explain some of the natural, inbuilt connection Rook would develop for his men and vice versa, even despite his isolation. It's literally programmed into him just like strategy is into the warmaster, intellect in the scribe, or technology in the...well, whoever the heck is the techies this run around
>>34506714From the few editions thread I've been in, /tg/ is kinda naturally geared toward pissing matches...Anyway, I'd suggest we go about one Primarch/Legion at a time.
>>34506752My only issue with that is Space Marine basic takes DECADES. It would be great to have him working with those at the bottom to learn how to do everything at the top, but we can't just have him go through basic training like that. It just wouldn't work.
>>34506748Nothing against it, but it has to demonstrate some kind of talent Rook has that allowed him to do that.Was it super-intelligence? We have Arelex in that spot.What was it?Also don't forget about the Plasma and Light theme the legion is about. And to some extent the Lighthouse too.
>>34506779There's time for it to happen. The Great Crusade lasts for about two centuries.
>>34506752Careful, Gaspard is back.Watch him try to destroy the whole thing and frame me for it.
>>34506761Stick with the high tech arsenal, using a crapton of plasma and melta. Throw in a large number of scouts due to extensive fieldcraft and rather than the small squad stealth marines they're the kauyon marines, to coin a tau term. The lure the bad man in by apparent weakness, only to trap them in a killing field full of grenade trips, landmines, and plasma fire. Then they turn around and make a large, concerted infantry push to overrun the enemy once they've been hammered, turning their carefully prepared defense into a shattering precision offence, one spearheaded by a heavy deep strike to make an anvil the main hammer is smashing against.
>>34506795Yeah, fair enough. I'm just not seeing having the whole "go through basic, then work his way through the ranks for a while, now HE'S YOUR PRIMARCH, YAY!" thing as a real viable method. That can cause quite a bit of problems and dissent within the Legion. We could have him officially labeled as an attache, with instructions that the Marines are to teach him everything about how the job is done, and then label him as that. That still allows for him to learn from the literal bottom, have that interaction with just about everyone, and cause less of a stir.Or he gets there and doesn't know what to do, so he relinquishes command to whoever was in charge before him so he can learn from the bottom.
>>34506741ahh I hate to say it - and I know exactly why we have this problem - but we both based originally, our legions on the Alpha Legion right?thus we both have clandestine elite spec forces styles, just coming out in different ends - with mine being more cia/kgb , to yours coming out more special forces etc. I think you should play up the guerilla/asymmetrical warfare aspect, drop the diplomacy stuff, and be about starting small insurgencies on worlds - winning the population over with hearts and minds, like Che Guevara, or Ahmed Massoud. That way you still have the elite special forces feel, with the unique strategy style, as assasination fits into revolutionary tactics - but it removes you from the direct political stuff my legion does - making us 2 sides to the same coin in that respect, but we would complement/oppose eachothers methods due to their similar methodology and ethos.I'd drop the bit about not being able to see the big picture - Merrill otherwise seems to smart for that - and the legion seems to special forces to not get at least the gist of the larger picture.Maybe change it so like the AlphaLegion, you legion fills everyone in on the big picture, so that in the field they can be flexible and adapt to the changing nature of the battlefield, but isolated from eachother, still all work towards a single goal. Like your men by nature of the guerrilla warfare angle, are used to being out of contact for a long time, so they have that kind of attitude. >>34506752that would endear you to the men, but not to anyone else. And it wouldnt account for being unnaturally close knit - you shared basic together, but so what? Thats a thing, but wouldnt be enough to make people literally follow him to the ends of the earth. Gaunt from the Ghosts series is a good example of a leader people will die for, they like him cos he is fair, protective, and is with them every inch of the way, even if he is in better accomodation - after all he is an officer.
Again we have determine what Rook is about, the 1-2 traits he is about and that distinguish him from the other Primarchs but also makes is dark side.- Isolation? This can make him strong mentally but this can't make him sociable.- Tech? He needs a civilized planet to produce that tech- Leadership and Bro? That has to be developed through his youth, not just go "oh I spent some time with my legion LIKE THE OTHER PRIMARCHS and now I can be bro with anyone"
>>34506806Well, look, it's not my guy, but based on what Uriel was saying above, I thought the idea was to avoid getting guys with Tech AND Stealth AND whatever else.>>34506845That's pretty sound.
>>34506883>that would endear you to the men, but not to anyone else. And it wouldnt account for being unnaturally close knit - you shared basic together, but so what? Thats a thing, but wouldnt be enough to make people literally follow him to the ends of the earthThere isn't really anything about Rook being an amazing leader, either. Check the wiki. We get "Brother Rook" and the men seeing him as their friend, not their master.Let that stew for centuries and become part of the tradition of the Novamarines and I think it's plausible that they rate fraternity as their cardinal virtue.
>>34506883Alright, fair enough. I was trying to put a reason down to say that "if you can get his guys out in a normal battlefield, they're not going to do so well."But if, as you said, I overspecialized them in being the guerilla force they are, most major battles could cause a "too many chiefs not enough indians" type of scenario, does that sound good?
>>34506896I wasn't so much thinking stealth, as forward preparation. I was actually thinking of taking the Band of Brothers thing a little bit further and make them the airborne marines. Few heavy weapons, with a focus on man portable firepower, forward deployment, and having to rely on improvised measures to make up for the lack of heavy weapons. Use land mines before the battle, or have to use demo charges to fight tanks, something of the sort. Yes, I said a high number of scouts, but that's less for the sneaky aspect of scouts and more for the high casualties they're liable to take and because they'd need to be unorthodox to make up for not having a crapload of armor or heavy support.But, all things considered, swap the scouts thing for airlifted assault marines and drop pods. Relatively few tanks, and the reliance of plasma/melta to make up for the lack of long range support, artillery, or vehicle based ordnance.>>34506933The John Connor could help with that. He joins the people after escaping the AI clutches, is moved by their plight, and joins with them. His "leadership" is just his inside knowledge of their foe and his innate primarch superiority, but his real strength is that he was with them no matter what, as both a tactician and as a brother in arms. His willingness to do anything himself he would ever ask of another man would help form a bond with his troops, and that could carry on to his legion past that point.
>>34506761i see where your coming from, and we have enough of those already. But it doesn't have to be that way - think the tv show Falling Skies - like shit was bad, but they organise and fight back as a full on army, doing all their own recon/support/logistics etc - ie becoming very close knit. Also again the Gaunts Ghosts - they are a unit of very close knit mofos - they are so close cos they go through the shittiest of shit together and triumph. >>34506762the trouble with that is - he becomes a politican archetype.He's meant to be the 'defender of light' etc right? I'm not saying he couldnt actually give a shit about the people - the problem is it makes no sense if you were alone all your life - no matter who the fuck you are, your childhood shapes who you become. If you never met a real person, you wouldn't be any good at social interaction. You just wouldn't be. There is real life cases that prove this. >>34506763well I can remain civil - I know you have accrued some flak too - just stay respectful, blunt is fine, but dont be rude and make it clear why we are doing this - and the message should get through - they've been reasonable enough guys so far. Lets treat them as such. >>34506791well Rook does need to fit an Archetype - so when he gets on - get him to pick one, and work from there. But work with him not against him.Maybe he can be a protector (note not a defender like a siege defender, but a protector of people etc, althuogh Lumey is in a bit of a regulator spot so they might overlap?)Just note that politician/statesman is about the only role Uriel can do compared to every other primarch. >was the Emperor's creation as a liaison between astartes and normal men? He would be the embodiment of the peaceful relation between humankind and their protectors that would be desired or even needed once the crusade was complete and mankin
>>34506968>Maybe he can be a protector (note not a defender like a siege defender, but a protector of people etc, althuogh Lumey is in a bit of a regulator spot so they might overlap?)I'm hurt, man. Last thread we were off committing war crimes together, this thread you're saying I'm all about the people? Gaspard is there to shank the other Primarchs if they get out of line, and he doesn't do a particularly brilliant job of it.
>>34506968> Just note that politician/statesman is about the only role Uriel can do compared to every other primarch. Huumm, you will need to have some heavy talk with Kleits and Arelex, because their Primarch kinda dabble into that.
>>34506988We have been discussing that issue. We do need to talk to Arelex, I think Kliets is more or less fine, he seems to be an aristocrat first.Speaking of roles within the group, we do have a few set out, and I have no idea what mine would be. I would initially say the Executioner, for the Assassination type stuff, maybe a carefully planned and executed job, as opposed to the classic Russ going all out and destroying everything, but not sure if that would fit. So how about I was supposed to be the one that, when everything is said and done, keeps governance in check? I was supposed to keep the ideals of a unified Humanity, and when a Governor or Lord gets out of line, it would have been my duty to remove him?Not sure how to put that into a title.
>>34506968>>34506968see >>34506962I'm more that happy to agree; he would be shitty at interactions with people at first. Hence the John Connor background; he would learn on the fly by joining the human resistance. They'd only tolerate him at first because of his inside knowledge of the AI and its methods/defenses/whatever, but exposure to humanity and his defender of mankind archetype would work to fill the gaps. A fairly standard "outsider gains acceptance among the tribe" story.It would also give precedent for his desire to work with his legion at a ground level, rather than taking command right off; his experiences would lead him to feel that the only way to understand and connect to people is to ingratiate yourself to them through shared service/experience. He would endear himself to his people not because he's particularly well socially adjusted or charismatic, but because he firmly believes that he must be with them, shoulder to shoulder when the push comes. The other half is, he's not just a normal person. He's a primarch. That does give some leeway for him taking to the abnormal circumstance better physically and psychologically than a normal guy. It worked for Mortarion...sorta.Either way, you're right. We do need him on. He did say he welcomed me writing stuff for his legion, but I'm loathe to do more than speculate without the man himself present.
>>34507048>So how about I was supposed to be the one that, when everything is said and done, keeps governance in check?I already have that. That is like the whole thing about Gaspard. He even has the Primarch body count to back it up.
I did propose one thing for Rook last thread that would tie everything into something sensible.- Land on a technological world, and from what I see from the other suggestions, we are all pretty much in agreement with this one- The world is elitist and based on knowledge, elitists have access to very advanced tech.- Rook is raised in a family of Commoners.- The Lighthouse is the center of this world, where the elites gather and learn.- Rook want to join the Lighthouse, but because he is a commoner can't.- But since he is a Primarch he harness the resolve to succeed and join the Lighthouse, the first commoner in history to do so, giving hope to other commoners.- Once there he learns but also has to deal with very bright people.- He still get ahead of them because he has a gifted mind and intelligence.- From there he can have his War of Ascension like all others Primarchs.- His would be about opening the door of the Lighthouse to everyone, of course the elites would oppose him.- He succeeds, create a technological utopia, and then the Emperor arrives, and the whole "he starts as a recruit" can start.Also keep in mind that the AI can be incorporated in all this, the Lighthouse could house the AI, the thing that would have all the knowledge and that would hoard it away from commoners. The thing Rook would have to fight to free the knowledge from the graps of the AIThen when the Emperor arrives they share a common distrust of AI, a bonding point.
>>34506885this is kind of a good point - but the Tech needs to be dropped - we have so many legions with tech obsessions/heavy interests and some don't even make sense... >>34506845that would be a fair compromise - but his social skills would still be sub-par by normal human standards if he was really raised without any social interaction. >>34506883>>34506741continued on Iron RangersI think, and you might not like this, but you should drop the tech obsession. Tech obsessed people put their faith in the tech - they wouldnt need to sneak around etc. And it doesnt fit with the methods your men use.Although I can see them being good at improvising weapons from otherwise mundane shit like some kind of genetic super-mcgyvers.In fact that would be a cool way to take them - like where the War Scribes obsess over finding/studying/using archeotech - you just make shit you need and throw it/recycle it when you need it. I can see your marines having more individual identification and non-standard field kit than other legions, like little mirrors for corners, and bags of flour to detect cloaked eldar etc.the AI corruption thing I don't entirely like, but it unique - and you could fluff it as an improvised stop-gap in the field that had unforseen consequences?>>34506933Seeing a leader as a friend is generally, something to avoid as an officer/leader. Having them like you is great though - but the Alpha Legion are the only ones to do the whole everyone is equal schtick - and the Iron rangers are in that role. >>34506934I think even on the normal battlefield they would do well - your guys seem to be highly trained right? they would hit and run and force the enemy to fight on their terms.They might not excel against nids - but catachans do well against nids - so you quite easily could too.]
>>34503788Although my legion does have a dark secret, its not their main deal. And i think Octullus is fairly suited to be the Primarch who would look for signs of corruption and other things gone wrong, perhaps the Title, the inspector? He can read minds, is cowardly so that he can run to someone for help, has a legion dedicated to long range combat so he can stealthily stop insurrections, and has a healthy suspicion towards most legions.
>>34507099His tech is focused on Light-based Plasma weaponry. He is not better at tech than the likes of Arelex.
>>34507115Sorry dude, but you have too many things going on with your Primarch. He's the Psyker Sniper Detective with a Dark Secret and a Tech Obsession.
>>34507099Ouch. Alright, it does make sense, I was just trying to take my guys in somewhat of an interesting direction. The AI was actually someone else's idea, and I kinda rolled with it. For the latter, I was just trying to put in a bit of an achilles heel, some major weakness to not be that "WE'RE GREAT AT EVERYTHING, AND NOBODY CAN STOP US CUZ WE'RE SUPER AWESOME!" Guy.I would like to keep the AI bit, if only because it would allow a way for the corruption to start. All of the Traitor Legions started their fall well before Horus declared war, and it provides a kind of unique opportunity to do that. But, yeah, I do see what you're saying about going into two completely different directions. I'll have to take some time to rewrite my backstory.
>>34507115You should remove "Cowardice" as a trait.Wary maybe, but not "Cowardice", cowardice would never fly in the eyes of the Emperor, and he would forever be the laughing stock of the other Primarchs.Cautious, Wary, yes. "WE ARE NO COWARDS!! But we do know not to fight a suicidal battle, we retreat to win for the Emperor"
>>34507181But its not a tech obsession, its just that they worked with the ad mech a lot. I guess i could remove the psyker part and the dectective parts.
>>34507092>- He succeeds, create a technological utopia, and then the Emperor arrives, and the whole "he starts as a recruit" can start.I suppose it can, but isn't that "start as recruit" thing meant to be a kind of purgatory for Rook? Why does the Emperor impose it if the guy's been a big success?
>>34507219OK, but weren't you suggesting to me last thread that the ties with the AdMech went deep enough that they could pay off Lumey in equipment if he would vouch for Octullus as a Loyalist?
>>34507226Rook himself would ask for it.He worked his way up from the bottom on his homeworld, and from there he learnt about the others, the elites.We could have him learning to get the elites on his side against the Lighthouse's AI.He pretty much want to do the same thing with his Legion. Know them from the bottom-up.
>>34507226I'll redirect you to my earlier bit. Maybe we can iron out a better case...>>34506845
>>34507271Sorry, that is a good contribution. I was just speaking loosely.
>>34507219Redempted Betrayers/Sharpshooters/Paranoid because UnforgivenThis seems like a nice focus to me.
>>34506985not all about the people by friend - you were the regulator correct? Thats more of the discipline side role of authority - ie keeping motherfuckers in line for the good of the group = the protector kind of overlaps into that is what i was saying. To be honest, i am getting a bit lost with who is who because of the jumping around between here and the wiki i'm doing. >>34506988yeah their what i was talking about here >>34506544 and >>34506714They need to pick a archetype and stick to it. >>34507059thats kind of what i was going for when i suggested the John Connor angle anyway?But yeah look up Oxana Malaya the feral child - people dont do well when raised without social interaction - and she DID see other people from time to time. Primarch or no, he'd be one fucking insane dude if he was all alone - it'd take him at least a decade to get anywhere near a normal humans social skill, and nothing near what the other primarchs would have.>>34507088>>34507048Ironically, your archetype (note im not talking roles but character archetypes) would be the bro-hero that Rook is being shaped into - you are in the jungle/etc with your men, you put up with all the shit they go through so you would be the Bro-Hero more than Rook... as for your role in the emperors plan - i could see you being the assassin - the guy the emperor goes to for the stuff he cant send the executioner for. But I think there is a role you would be better suited to. Shit you could be the executioner too - we do have more primarchs than standard canon it makes sense youd need some executioners with different approaches.. Let me work on that..>>34507115see the problem is you are now sneaky, mind reading, long range shooty, and suspicious. Thats several character archetypes. And if your primarch is cowardly, how are they not crippled by incompetency from being you know - cowardly - battlefields have a way of forcing cowards to nut up or die
>>34507285Hey, no need for apologies, I figured you just either didn't see it or whatever. We've got a lot of great ideas for what to do with Rook, but no solid method of holding it all together.
>>34507292>you were the regulator correct? Thats more of the discipline side role of authority - ie keeping motherfuckers in line for the good of the group = the protector kind of overlaps into that is what i was saying.We're cool, I was just horsing around. And yeah, you're clear on what I'm trying to do with Gaspard.
>>34507262You can have close ties to the ad mech and still not be the obsessed. They simply saved many forge worlds and helped saved mars, and gave the Ad Mech a bribe. A tech obsessed legion would be like the Iron Hands, War Scribes, or chapters that hoard arceotech. My legion simply has good ties to the ad mech
>>34507288I could down play the mind reading bits and tech bits and play up those aspects
>>34507342Just stick to that core concept. The rest of it is special effects and toys.
>>34507312I was going to tell you, before you decided to join sides with Rook.Gaspard is a terrible name, can't get anymore common than that, check the canon primarchs none have such a common name.And Lumey is worse, Lumen would have been a lot better.
>>34507292Then I think what we're doing here is arguing about how we agree with each other. So, rather than doing that, what next? I think debating further about Rook isn't going to get us much anywhere from this point given that he isn't here, so who else needs ironing out?
>>34507292Are you talking about the legions or their primarchs? Also, the Eyes arn't sneaky so much as far off and mobile enough to redeploy squads. Also, the mind reading is used by only their chaplains and Primarch. I could add a bit about them being patrolled by their chaplains constantly, who have removed the section of their brain that allows fear. And i guess its less of a cowardice thing and more of a "reluctant to get close to fight"
Just a general observation, I think this little project is mostly suffering from too many chiefs not enough indians as a whole. It seems when you get a smaller group, we work really well together and get shit done, but the more people are working on stuff at once, the group focus goes out the window....
>>34507132thats not a tech interest - its just a normal interest in tech that all the primarchs would have. Or a smart tactical choice based on their tactics.>>34507194dont get me wrong - i REALLY like the idea of the AI corrupting you - its unique. And sorry if I was harsh - i like your legion, just some harsh truths need to be addressed - im sure i'll have many coming my way too in time. And you were pretty well balanced as it goes. You dont necessarily have to rewrite it, just bring it into line with your actual archetype - like with the tech obsession - you could go in the makeshift weapons - you would need to when on extended missions - i mean shit have you seen the stuff guerillas use?Your legion is good though man, don't fret.>>34507226I agree , and it makes no sense to just decide to make a primarch - a leader bred for leading- to be a bitch. Great leaders are close with their men - but they are never on their level; you can;t be and still maintain a proper objective commanding prescence. >>34507342the paranoia is fine - and the long range weaponry is cool, especially if its not just devastators gun line style long range but snipers and artillery etc. I think playing up those aspects of your legion would make you a rather intriguing character - like Mad Hlaine Larkin in power armour and a love of whirlwinds etc - maybe you could have lots of scouts and specialise in being light infantry backed up by artillery style companies - like shooting the enemy and forever staying out of reach like a legion sized version of Mohammed Ali? what do you think?>>34507383my reasoning exactly - but as i'm leaving soon, it made sense to get a concensus so others will carry the message forward. I say we could help Occulus with a few interesting hooks for his legion without over-stepping the paranoid sniper archetypeif he's up for that?>>34507402continued in next post
>>34507416This is 4chan.As soon as you have more people things goes out the window.
>>34507424He has and know tech that make plasma weapons safe. That's quite the achievement.Now ask him to build a Voidcruiser... He might be able to help but that's it.
>>34507381>Gaspard is a terrible name, can't get anymore common than that, check the canon primarchs none have such a common name.Jagatai? Lionel? Robert? There's a selection of the canon primarchs with historical references for names. If the names come from English they get mangled to make it more sci-fi. Gaspard Lumey is a name of that kind.
>>34507424Hey, man, no problems. I volunteered to be the sacrificial lamb for a reason. It'll get things done and improve my Legion/Primarch, while setting an example so that others might be more willing to do the same. I was honestly expecting a much harsher retconning of ideas.
What I miss. How did Nikaea go down. My guy now hates Psykers by the way. Probably put them all on the front lines of his next few sieges out of spite.
Wow, now I know how people felt when they missed a couple of threads. Gonna spend some time reading the wiki.I added some stuff to the google doc about Bohemond. Could somebody copy it over to the wiki please? My IP is banned for no reason
>>34507424The AI corrupting is unneeded, really, it's setting course to a massive collision with Rook's AI.>>34507402Don't forget, they are Space Marines, they are MADE for war, "They Shall Know No Fear".You CAN'T have them be "we don't want to be near combat pls"
Another general statement, this thread was archived a while ago. linked pic related.>>34507416
>>34507424Are there any abandoned legions without a writer? I could go for churning up some stuff for guys that aren't getting any love at all. It would help flesh out more of the basics we're needing, and it would help scoot away from trying to lead somebody else's ideas around and thin out the number of voices. I'd much rather write than critique; the (constructive) criticism is more up your alley.
>>34507456it's Lion EL'Jonson, the EL is distinct.There's is no Robert...JagHatai is far from common...
>>34507484Yeah... but it was also added a while before Rook got into the project. Idk, most people seem to think it's a good idea...
>>34507402Both to some extent - its a different case for each anons creation - Arelex needs to be dialed back some on the archetypes he fits cos atm he overlaps with you on long range and avoiding close combat, and he has tech focus, and he has intellect, and apparently at some point he also gained political skills - presumably based on his idea of empire running maybe, but you see what im getting at? Its a bloated character now. He outshines Hektor the Star Primarch... As for your cowardice - thats fair- but why not change it from reluctance to just being a standard procedure? You just choose to not engage where possible, putting faith in your marksmanship and long range support.. >>34507416yeah originally I started the whole thing - but it was the first time i run a thread on the site, and i'm not even that veteran on the site itself. I started out organising everything and collating it, but sat back to let other get involved cos i didnt want to exclude people you know?In retrospect, i should probably have laid down some kind of infrastructure so we all know what the deal was... >>34507429this guy is correct lol although /tg/ seems better than most. >>34507455not really - most legions know how to use and maintain plasma - they just dont have tons of them cos theyre rare and quite often temperamental. He doesnt need tech focus - unless his legion is also going to start using tons of bionics etc, it makes no sense to have a such a tech speciality - in GW canon all the tech focused chapters/legions put their faith in the tech and have bionics/etc. If he doesnt have that its illogically strapped on to add depth to something that is otherwise a flat concept.. I'm not a car mechanic because I can refill the oil in the tank.. >>34507463to be honest its a pretty solid legion concept. Apart from the constraint power armour would have on the ability to sneak, its fine. And this is 40k - so they can because handwavium lol
>>34507480You need to talk with either the Crusaders or the Steel Marshalls since they kinda share the whole Justice thing.A mention was made that you were more like The Judge, while the other was The Enforcer.In any cases, check the end of the Gdoc, there's a mention there for you.
>>34507342Yeah, dude, I like what you've got, it just seems you're pulling in way too many directions at once.But you're also hardly the worst of it.
>>34507520I'm OK with it as the thing that goes wrong for the Iron Rangers, to be honest. If we had to choose, I recommend not giving Rook an AI connection because... I mean, I like the guy, but look where he wanted to go with it when it was mentioned upthread >>34502416.
>>34507484Rooks AI makes less sense than the Iron Rangers AI story though. If one has to go - it should be Rooks.>Don't forget, they are Space Marines, they are MADE for war, "They Shall Know No Fear".>You CAN'T have them be "we don't want to be near combat pls"this really. Its harsh to some, but its accurate.>>34507499Steel Marshals and Argent Legion. Steel marshals have to be siege specialists though, they take part in the Crucible with the Cataphracts, against the renegade Bulwark.That ties them up until after Terra. But otherwise go nuts with 'em.I recommend reading the Bulwark legion bit, you can skim the early parts - but yeah the Bulwark is the antithesis to the Marshals i guess. But renegade not chaos.
>>34507594Argent's slot got claimed although I would actually back shooting down the Barrow Lords for being all over the damn place.
>>34507594Rook's AI was mostly there to solve the whole "He learns to reads by himself, like a psyker!"The thing is far from needed as long as we drop the "learned to read by himself", but I fear the idea might be too engrained for it to be dropped.In the worst case, two AIs could be okay, as long as they are very very very distinct.
>>34507603I hate to say it, I like the guy, he's got conviction, but... yeah... he's way too everywhere for shit.
>>34507626"learns to read by himself, like a psyker" was the strawman. There were two serious competing options.1. He learns from a very basic machine.2. He's a Primarch so fuck you.I don't much care which gets picked, but presenting your preferred choice and your straw man is really dishonest.
>>34507594>>34507603I can look the Steel Marshals over, sure. And if the Barrow Lords get hosed I can cook up an alternative.I'm kinda considering a corax-esque failed effort to rebuild a legion, but using men of iron instead of crazy biology, and with worse fallout in the long run. Too crazy, or workable?
>>34507586And now you realize Rook essentially has no idea about anything.
>>34507626If I remember correctly, though, all Primarchs did have psychic potential, but the only one who really delved into it was Magnus. Shit, the Psychic Scream from Sanguinius permafucked the geneseed, and Leman Russ could make psyker's heads explode by yelling at them (okay, not literally, but in Thousand Sons he did scream so loud and violently that several of the Sons had aneurisms and died from the emotional psychic overload).Yes, captcha, and searibu, too.
>>34507603Yeah Barrow Lords i'm still confused about - they were somehow in the Warp before the heresy?But I did like the sumerian/babylonian/etc vibe they had going. That was unique.I didn't know the Argent got claimed. The Council of Iron is being updated by me - so slowly, but they are going to be seeing progress/Ive already started on a bunch of stuff for them. >>34507626yeah, but the whole learning to be a normal functioning human being is ridiculous at best - just look up Oxana Malaya (feral dog girl), she actually did get social interaction, and she thinks shes a dog so yeah. A primarch being on his own til 30 then suddenly turning into bro-level leader is terrible writing. But look at the John Connor alternative for him posted in this thread - it makes more sense (but not perfect) and actually stays true to what he is after being discovered... >>34507658I liked the idea of education via Servitors - they can teach you but not interact socially. Its much better rounded than some AI deusexmachina
>>34507484But they do have assault marines, and do get into close combat at times, but due to their geneseed mutations, it renders them a lot less effective in cqc, and makes them not as brave as some of their brothers. They are brave, for certain, but only a bit better than your average humans, excluding their chaplains and assault marines
>>34507563Okay, the Knights burn the homeworld of the Eternal Zealots on the orders of the Emperor, that's pretty damn Enforcer in my view. As for the Eyes of the Emperor, they're going to need to do something spectacular to be forgiven for a major role in the battle in which Bohemond was killed!
>>34507720>only a bit better than your average humansCan we put up a trigger warning about saying this?
>>34507685Hmm men of Iron as in the early Necrons?I don't wanna be a dick, but steer clear of it - we already have one Xenos using Primarch and one who is apparently allowed to use all the tech the AdMech would throw a fit about. but i like the idea of a Corax failed effort to rebuild - the Marshals lose like 50% or something of their legion in the Crucible, including the primarch - so a doomed to fail rebuild effort would be a cool and logical idea to go down.
>>34507728The Knights never forgive the Eyes. That's a thing now.
>>34507720Okay, I gotta stop you there. Drop the only a bit better than your average humans, because that path leads only to bad things. There isn't a fine line between humans and SM's, fluff-wise. There's a vast ocean of difference. And you're not going to sell it based on that. Switch out brave for pragmatism.They are more likely to retreat because they realize that fighting for the Emperor another day achieves more than dying for Him now.
>>34507757You're damn right. Sorry chaps, but I think it's entirely in character
>>34507762Space Marines. Don't say they're only a little bit better than ordinary humans. Ever. Just don't. (Even if it's basket weaving. Because we don't care about Space Marines who weave baskets.)
>>34507757My job here is done.Not really.
>>34507720Have some assault marines, as it makes sense to have them - but play up the long range, mohammed ali style staying just out of reach angle - it makes sense from a strategic/tactical standpoint - no-one else really has that save some overlap with the Iron Rangers and their guerilla warfare, but that is still a contrast to your elastic defense/offense that way.And it would fit the paranoid angle - ie you "never let them get close because [insert paranoid rambling reason why]"That way you are effective, while retaining the paranoia angle. what do you think Octullus?
>>34507742Men of Iron as in the DAoT men of iron. They were AI machines built to serve man, but went full skynet and are one of the big dangers that made AI so highly verboten. The whole idea was that the losses were replaced by machines and covered up, but the machines were either A: less effective at doing the marine's jobs because they weren't as flexible as humans by dint of not being truly intelligent, or B: started to get smart and triggered the OHFUCKPANIC response when the primarch realized he was in danger of losing control.So, no xenos at all, just a bit of dark age fuckery gone horribly wrong.>>34507708Sounds almost like Rook is getting turned into Mortarion in part, at least for his childhood. It can work, though. He'd wind up being a bit more heroic than the death guard, and less "oh god my lungs"
So reading through the suggestions for Rook, could we perhaps try to Clark Kent him? Learned the values of friendship and hard work in a small isolated farming community that is not very technologically advanced. Then he finds the Lighthouse, meets the AI who teaches him about everything else, but later learns the AI is evil or something?
>>34507761Fine, but we already have so many pragmatic and logical legions that rely on that kind of stuff.
>>34507798Other legions say that you never let the Eyes get close because then you have to listen to them.
>>34507798I like the way that sounds, I'll add it once i can get online. If some one could add that to my legion, it would be great
>>34507830Yes and no. Most of them are pragmatic when it comes to how to plan a battle, but maybe not necessarily when it comes to that whole "we should retreat" bit. We're not trying to completely destroy your vision, you've got a lot of good ideas, we're just trying to help apply them...
>>34507810hmmm it would be a unique touch. BUT and this is a problem yet to be addressed (so maybe put a pin in this) Arelex and his Scribes have the whole Archeotech/DAoT stuff, but frankly thats a point of contention in my eyes. If you do use it, it'd have to be kept on the sly - you would find it hard to have that be public knowledge + AdMech interference.. but you could have their binary decision making have them end up killing civilians and shit. Just remembered that the 50% losses the Marshals take in the Crucible- most of the geneseed is stolen away by the Bulwark, note not all - but thats their way of reproducing. So you WOULD need a drastic way for replenishing your numbers - so this could become a thing yeah. But as i say, put a pin in it until we have addressed Arelex's stuff - if thats not a problem?Sorry if it seems like I'm railroading you with this btw, just cos no-one was using them or the Bulwark I started writing them up together etc..
>>34507708>A primarch being on his own til 30 then suddenly turning into bro-level leader is terrible writing.Coming back to this...What's in the wiki actually suggests that Rook was a pretty terrible leader with someone else doing the real work. He fraternised with the men, his major contribution to their campaign is getting his ass killed, and after his death the Novamarines were kinda sad about it but didn't seem to lose their combat effectiveness. In short: he was more like Legion mascot than commander.That makes them a pretty interesting Legion, to be honest.
If your Primarch was a high school girl, would you date her?
>>34507918That's literally the worst Primarch I've ever seen.Sanginnius also sacrificed himself, but also was one of the most competent combattant of the Emperor, beautiful to a fault, WINGS!!!, ect...I see nothing there that could EVER surpass that.Rook, as is, is a total mess.
Alright, fellas, things seem to be well in hand. I've got to leave for a while. Have fun!
>>34507986>That's literally the worst Primarch I've ever seen.That's literally the point.
>>34507812Just drop the AI business if you go that route - its not necessary at that point - and the Iron Rangers claim to the AI storyline both came before and makes more sense. But the idea of Clark Kent/Smallville-ing him is amusing and unique tbh.I'm now split between John Connor-ing him in a fight against some greater foe - Xenos or Mechanical, and Smallville-ing him... >>34507845fucking lel>>34507918true - but then he would be a failure - the primarchs were gentically bred to lead, maybe not be amazing at it, but they were bred to lead the Emprahs armies. If they can't do that why have him at all - why not just have the standard marine running the show carry on and just leave Rook on the homeworld?And more importantly, a mascot primarch would relegate him to pointlessness - it'd be better off just removing him in favour of some other anons new legion - which isn't fair to Rook, cos he has taken part with us. There is a compromise somewhere - but ultimately, its just about making shit make sense you know?
>>34507329Agreed. In canon, Horus, Raven Guard, Iron Hands (and then later) chapters like the Storm Wardens have all been close with Admech for one reason or another.
>>3450791810/10 would have as a mascot
>>34507899Oh god yes it would have to be on the sly. If what they were doing was known to any outsider, they'd all be burned at the stake for gross stupidity. They'd be playing with fire, and it would burn them pretty damn bad in the aftermath.But yeah, that can hold off I suppose. No worries.
>>34508012I see my guy having a lot of Hereteks who keep building him larger and more devastating siege weapons, while the faithful admechs constantly cry that he pushes the weapons to far without pause.
>>34508001Thing is, I'm not sure that cutting Rook's character apart (even if he says he's OK with it) is much fairer to the guy. It's a problem.
>>34508012>>34507329I see your point - its not the same thing. But having ties close enough that the AdMech would go out of their way to get the entire goddamned Imperium to back off you is a bit much.I like the idea that you have to become repentant - that is actually a first and only for our AU. Maybe have a small portion of your forces outright rebel and make their own warband - plays into the paranoia angle - and you make up for your brothers 'sins' by going repentant. Having close ties to the AdMech isn't a problem - but the AdMech are greedy - greedy don't share toys too often and the wikipage has your primarch have a 'Anti - titan weapon'. That is going a tad far I think, but having one cool weapon gifted to you seems perfectly reasonable - you did help defend Mars... Otherwise, the AdMech tend to just barter or take take take
Sincerely, I wouldn't mind another having a shot on the Nova spot,the whole thing is such.. shit, really. I don't even know if we can salvage it...
>>34507603>>34507633>>34507685>>34507708Mmm. What would you advise to narrow them down. I'd been originally thinking of them primarily as navy/orbital drop and someone suggested mercantile aspects and I threw that in.But yeah, original idea was void warefare and landing ops.So far as their knowledge of the warp, I'm thinking of it being imperfect and garbled. They see it as a sea and know there are sea monsters, but they misunderstand what's going on.
>>34508079Actually, the Eyes showing up on Mars is a problem too, if their loyalty is suspect.
>>34508001Ok, drop the AI it works. My only concern with the John Connor route is that it might make him much more dour than Rook is trying to make him out to be, other than that I like it. Particularly him being Mortarion that doesn't become evil.And then yeah Clark Kenting him could help explain why he's able to become this leader of men that he was meant to be in a fashion that doesn't involve him being in the Mortarion position. He brings his hard work ethics with him to the Legion, and that combined with the desire to learn more fuels him mastering or firmly grasping the multiple arts of war. He could listen to his Captains and Squad Leaders, occasionally even the common Brother. After all, Rook does seem like the sort to stop you from throwing yourself off a building.
>>34508094Personally, I don't like any of those concepts. Void warfare is the Navy's thing, all Marines are good at landing ops (it's not just a clever name), trading is way out. Being the warp guys is OK, but not the best if you're loyalists.
>>34508097Real quick before I take off, covered that in the last thread. Apparently, his fleet is preventing me from getting to Mars. Some still get down there, but it keeps him away from the planet while still doing something massively important.
>>34508079I suppose we could have some sort of pentient crusade for them to take part of, but i thought was agreed last thread that the Emperor gave them a temporary pass that he would repeal and deal with after the heresy, but since he got beat down, he never repealed the forgiven pass.
>>34508125It all depends, really. Both routes could work well, and build up the BoB vibe that went into the original idea.On that note, guys, I'm gonna jet for a bit. I'll be back and start cooking up some stuff for the Steel Marshals when I return.
>>34508167Emperor's dead. You'd be throwing yourself on Gaspard's mercy.Oh.
>>34508167It's good enough like this.The Emperor never revoked the pardon, but the likes of The Knights feel like Justice in the absolute sense has not been served.
>>34508051Post-Heresy that is perfectly fine - no AdMech to get on your back and its in line with a siege offensive army - the Iron Warriors do that kind of shit so you should be able to. >>34508065I'm not cutting him apart - he wants a certain character - we just need to find an agreeable and /tg/canonically way to make it plausible. Early in the thread I was talking about people needing to fit one character archetype = Rook just needs to get online and decide one, and we can work with him from there - stress being on with him. This is a collaborative effort after all. >>34508094pick a character archetype for your primarch - the legion will reflect that. Ie the Wolves are all boisterous like Russ, etcI would drop the mercantile aspects completely - thats not marine-like to have as a focus - and we already have a political/espionage based legion doing manipulative shit like that. Post-Heresy the idea works - its intriguing and captivating - especially with the great details you added in with respect to the Babylonian/Sumerian culture (Ereshkigal is a god of death if i remember my degree reading, so interestingly enough is Nergal/Nurgle). But pre-Heresy - it would mean you were already exposed to the Chaos Gods - which is troublesome and conflicts with the little established canon we do have. Post heresy, please do have that shit going on- but you would have to be Traitor. Otherwise, I'd need some time to do some research to find a better angle to use the Babylonian/Sumerian stuff>>34508097good point - but that might be alleviated by the only partial legion betrayal - and with some handwavium, it could be written up as they were Mars only real option/Mars for some reason was stuck with them as their only nearby support...
>>34506544Tech/knowledge obsession: Yes, that is one of his core attributes as a person.Averse to the chaos of close combat: Also true.Politician/Empire Builder: This is what the Emperor wanted him to be, the perfect administrator. Basically, just a different kind of machine, ensuring that he would never seek the throne for his own ambitions. If Arelex was left to his own devices, he would not have taken this role, he only came back to Terra and did so because of his shame at failing the Emperor. Super Strength/Gorillalike: Yes, one of his physical attributes is that he has overdeveloped arms and shoulders. That's essentially also his ONLY significant physical attribute. Vulkan was completely immortal, Magnus could peel Gargants open with his mind, Ferrus Manus had hands that might have been made out of NECRON TECH, etc, etc, etc. Having strong arms is not a problem. Chillax.Super Awesome Tech: Again, many, many, many things in canon 40k are "awesome tech". In 30k? Even more so. As a Primarch? Even more so. A Primarch who spent his entire life, and even most of the Great Crusade hunting relics more than serving the Emperor? Yeah, he's gona have some cool toys. Note, however, where I specifically said that only his armor was anything near that kind of special tech. It is heavy, tough armor, with a good force shield. That's it. His 4 bolters that you seem to have such a problem with? A: Rule of cool. B: THEY'RE JUST HEAVY BOLTERS. NOT MAGIC SUPERGUNS. JUST HEAVY BOLTERS, BECAUSE BULLET SPAM IS COOL. Get the hell over it. I took away the graviton gun already, the only weapon he had that was anywhere near "supertech".Arelex is still the guy who let his personal desires lead him away from serving the Emperor properly, who didn't conquer many planets, who tried to beat the Mechanicus and failed, and who was only *barely* able to put the Imperium into some semblance of order after the Emperor was wounded, failing to fulfill the role the Emperor wanted.
>>34508196Justice will only be served when all daemons, heretics, mutants and traitors are dead.
>>34508125>>34508185Yeah I second that - the Clark Kent/Smalleville route would be VERY different from most Primarchs backstories too. While making the most sense and retaining Rooks original idea as best as possible.Its the least harmful route to his original idea. >>34508194>>34508167This - and the Emperor is NOT the forgiving sort we have played him as in this AU - the guy is part of why the Imperium is so grimdark - having him be reasonable would sacrafice the grimdark and would make the whole exercise pointless.
>>34508236My experiences in tertiary education have taught me that administration and research don't really go together. As you point out, most of the rest is window-dressing, but it doesn't quite make sense to me that the Emperor would make Arelex to be Chief Scientist and Administrator. If you had to pick (and apparently we're being hardasses today) which would it be?
>>34508284Arelex was *supposed* to be the Chief Administrator, after the Great Crusade. He was also "programmed" to not have much personal ambition. His childhood on an old world, full of cool mining caves and ancient marble ruins, led him to develop a love of exploration and old tech, and he was good at puzzling out how things worked, just like he was *supposed* to have been good at puzzling out the Imperium's bureaucratic Gordian Knot after the Crusade was over. The research thing is because the Emperor saw that it was benefitting the Imperium in an unexpected way, but mostly because if the Emperor came in and cockslapped Arelex, he risked destroying the sense of detachment that he needed in Arelex to be the Administrator after the Crusade.The Emperor could have had Arelex claim more planets in the short term, but he risked losing the Administrator in the long term. And the Emperor is nothing if not a long term guy. That's my viewpoint, at least. Should have been the Admin, during the Crusade chose to be more of the Researcher, came back to be the Admin after the Heresy, but wasn't prepared for it because grimdark, and then got killed because he tried to be both Researcher and Administrator, telling the Imperium and the Mechanicus what to do. He could only have one, but naively believed he could be both, because Arelex never quite grasped what the Emperor wanted from him.
>>34508236Right welcome back first and foremost. As it stands, Hektor, our Horus equivalent is made redundant by your huge bloated mass of abilities. Sorry but its true.I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE BOLTERS> Read what I wrote dude. You argued your case on them. You have this genuinely REALLY cool story about challenging the AdMechs tech stranglehold - I want to keep that in, we just need to rejiggle it so it at least makes canonical sense. The problem isn't what you do have - its that you have more than 1 character archetype - infact you have like at least 4. The Primarchs are all a single archetype that they embody. And their legions reflect that. And from that the interesting interactions with other primarchs sprout. The problem here is you have so much going on, that your legion/primarch is pushing others out of their archetype - but MOST importantly, is that you are outshining the STAR player in the whole HH - HEKTOR. You want 4 heavy bolters - i think its wasteful, but more dakka is cool - so keep it, i already said i dont care about it my friend. But lose the super strength and Politician/Empire builder stuff. In the fluff we have you do put into place the various infrastructure the Imperium has - I'm okay with you doing that, your legion has all this data lying around you were bound to have something on Government etc. But being builders and politicians steps into like 3-5 other primarchs shoes - and you seem more defined by your Tech obsession than anything else - so keep that. >Arelex is still the guy who let his personal desires lead him away from serving the Emperor properlythere isnt really any reflection of this in the fluff. And you don't need it. Leave stuff for other anons to play with dude. RESPECTFULLYUriel
>>34508167>>34508276Actually, suppose the Eyes do fling themselves at Gaspard's mercy, I think he'd do something like this:Break up the legion immediately, down into squads, and assign the troops to his own commanders for use in the Scourging. Octullus is sent to Terra in chains to be tried by the other Primarchs.Now, I think most of the Primarchs would be very reluctant to execute Octullus in this scenario, because that mean accepting Gaspard's temporary solution as permanent. (After all, the Void Angels will be the only legion who didn't have a hand in killing the Eyes' Primarch.) This way he gets found slightly guilty for the sake of expedience, grudges can be developed and suspicions maintained.
>>34508135>>34508210Hmmm, how about a somewhat Kurze style duality.Sargon offers riches and is a good administrator, leaving glittering cities in his wake.Unless you resist, in which case nightmarish warfare of swift and brutal warfare ensues. Unlike the Night Lords, it's not directed at civilians, though the Barrow Lords are unconcerned with collateral damage. Mostly it is akin to a Carcharodons strike, aircraft and marines appearing as if from nowhere, artillery salvos falling from space, etc.We can step it down pre-heresy to them being obsessed with sea-monster imagery and using their psykers freely, being accustomed to depending on astropaths and navigators.
>>34508391>Sargon offers riches and is a good administrator, leaving glittering cities in his wake.>Unless you resist, in which case nightmarish warfare of swift and brutal warfare ensues. Unlike the Night Lords, it's not directed at civilians, though the Barrow Lords are unconcerned with collateral damage.Alexandri is already doing this with the Silver Cataphracts.
>>34508376If you have him tried by the other Primarchs, would those Legions who've lost a Primarch get a representative? The KoJ would be screaming for his blood
>>34508421Gaspard is washing his hands of the problem and/or helping the Eyes in the most Gaspard way possible. Basically, it would depend on what the Primarchs on Earth decided.
>>34508366Hektor's been out shone because no one wrote fluff for him in ages, dude. I can tone down the Empire Builder thing, but then the question is if not me, then who?And if there's another builder, then why did they tap me to set up the Imperium? Either I'm the one who did it, or I'm not involved with it. The entire reason the fight with the Mechanicus is interesting is because it's a struggle to keep them from seizing control away from the High Lords and the Emperor. That requires a foot in both worlds, in technology, AND administration, you dig? It's like you yourself told me a couple threads ago, without the High Lords or other powerful Imperial factions involved, the Admech would just kill Arelex. It wouldn't be an interesting fight because they wouldn't have to do it on the sly. And seriously, it's not super strength. It's just being somewhat stronger. ALL Primarchs have "super strength" by most standards. Shit, Vulkan dragged around a gigantic fire dragon with one hand. And held onto it for hours while he dangled from a cliff. Chillax, and get some perspective, bro. I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm also not going to yield to exaggeration.
>>34508458>>34508421Ugh. Sorry, that didn't answer the question. Who gets represented in the trial is up to the Primarchs on Earth. (Damn voting on voting questions always trip me up.)
>>34508415Mm, I think that's characteristic of a lot of primarchs.I suppose Sargon would be more likely to hang heads over the gate to remind people of the price of rebellion.Still, as I understand it, the Cataphractoi are siege specialists, with attrition warfare.Barrow Lords appear with the scream of supersonic aircraft, the sounds of teleportation, all their force focused on a single point, before vanishing to strike again.
>>34508376That sounds fair enough. But wasn't it agreed that the pressence of the Eyes and their actions at the drop site massacre be slightly mysterious, and that only Knights of Justice were aware that they helped the Traitors.But if you guys want, we could hold a trial of sorts
>>34508466>I can tone down the Empire Builder thing, but then the question is if not me, then who?Alexandri was meant to do it.>And if there's another builder, then why did they tap me to set up the Imperium? Either I'm the one who did it, or I'm not involved with it. You end up doing it because Gaspard has Alexandri killed.
>>34508504So you think it'd read better if Arelex was never actually meant to be an administrator, but everyone turned to him because "Hey bro, you've got 100 exabytes of data stored in your codpiece, and you can read it in a week, how about you try to brute force DATA-HAMMER your way into putting the Imperium in order?
>>34508535With my guys love for warmachines, I can see him turning on him for that flashy dakka. So my guy is playing out like Angron, with Pertuabo's job, who turns on everyone.
It's a bit amusing that I make a legion then come back a few days later to see someone else has taken it over in my stead.Still, seems a bit of a shame that whoever took it over left out the legion's original love of heavy armor, particularly terminators.
>>34508376could do that, but why wpuld the emperor while he was still alive have let any mercy be shown?In the middle of a civil war you dont spare the guy who seems to have maybe changed sides - you shut him down quickly while you can = you could argue with the HH going on he couldn't though, but the legion would be declared Traitor without a doubt. If you have any other ideas though share them man - theres ALWAYS a way to write things so that they work. Just has to fit with the canon and be plausible inside those constraints. >>34508391nice idea, but I think the Cataphracts are doing that kind of thing but with more focus on the siege rather than quick brutal warfare. But there is something there - brainstorm some more man :)>>34508343I have to go unfortunately - but seriously, this isn't an attack on you, although you will probably see it as one. Its just a case of your primarch pulling in so many directions, he kind of doesnt need the rest of the Primarchs. When the Primarchs themselves are all meant to counter eachother flaws with their individual strengths in a kind of puzzle where each primarch is a single piece. And aside from outshining Hektor, which is a big fucking deal btw, having no personal ambition wouldnt chime with trying to break the AdMech's stranglehold on tech You need ambition even if you're a good guy - you would need to be ambitious to take on the galaxies most powerful and influential group, for whatever end you style it out for. >because Arelex never quite grasped what the Emperor wanted from him.I find it hard to believe that the super smart Arelex wouldn't see what it was he was required to do. >>34508466true - but to come back and take his rightful place he has to out do you - which is nigh impossible with all the shit your primarch can do. And the other empire builders are people like the Bulwarks Sebastian Rex, just off the top of my head - the guy is literally just a builder of empires. continued>>
>>34508535That sounds like a good reason. It's also possible that he got the job because he seems to be the least ambitious.
>>34508591Such is life on 4chan, where you never know who's online when, and who's on vacation for a week, or whatever. >>34508602Well, as long as you guys will agree not to give me shit for "Lo, the people did turn to Arelex because they had nowhere else to turn, and Lo, they did giveth him absolute power for a time, in order to make right what was broken at the Emperor's death", then I'll start working Arelex's fluff more in that direction, and away from being an Empire-Builder from the beginning. Sound fair?
>>34508493>>34508600OK, so how about the Eyes kinda don't mention anything and get involved in a little bit of the less prominent fighting - if we're doing more around Saturn, they could come play out there. After Emps is out of the picture, the Knights demand that Justice be done, and its the Void Angels might deciding what is right here. Does that make sense?
>>34508621Silver Cataphracts, but aside from homeworld and Primarch(Constantium and Constantine respectively) I didn't do much beyond initial creation. Guess that's what I get for missing...8 threads now?
>>34508630You can make it Gaspard's call and I'll wear the heat for having the guy with the intact legion at the end of the Heresy.
>>34508663Ah, nuts. They have gone in a good direction, but it still sucks.
>>34508654I would prefer for them to remain fighting on mars, but other than that, i am fine.
>>34508466I have to go so this is my last post for tonight -You are brought in to fix the Imperium because yeah you have all the relevant data, and know how to use it as per your studying of everything , i mean you still do that right?I didn't say with the HighLords you would win - I said BEFORE the HighLords are in place, the AdMech would have dealt with you - you wouldn't let someone become a real problem before you deal with them. Especially not the super greedy, super jealous AdMech.I mentioned earlier in this thread that everyone should be writing their Primarchs with reference to other Primarchs - Humans don't measure their personal strengths against monkeys or dogs - they measure them against other humans. Its a point of reference thing - as you say, ALL primarchs have super strength compared to a normal. You dont therefore need to say it - its implied by being a primarch. But you did say he was stong enough - the whole simian upper body thing.Which then makes his aversion of closecombat even more strange.Im not exagerating - I'm trying to point out that your primarch isnt just one archetype - hes not just the administrator - hes also the biggunsguy, the techguy, and somehow the politician guy. The problem it presents is your one character is now stepping onto the other 4+ primarchs whose roles you share. You have an interesting legion, with an interesting story - but you have to fit the /tg/ universe otherwise your basically playing this by yourself almost. Tl:dr i write for a living. These are the problems as I can see them - and your not the only one - we're addressing EVERYONE. Others agree with me too. And others have begun having the kinks worked out too. >>34508493yeah, but it makes less sense - why would you trust someone who has by all accounts just betrayed you? you wouldn't. Not in the midst of a civil war. But I am against the trial right now.
>>34508704Meh, it is what it is. Nice to see someone's having fun with it at least.Still, he could have at least kept the colors(roughly this), even if I never did come up with a heraldry.
>>34508535yeah thats a lot more agreeable.Anyway sorry if you felt like i was attacking you - trust me we all have some hard talk to face. HAVE FUN>>34508654i like them fighting on Mars too -but i gotta go. I'll be back tomorrow. Sorry guys - but someone needed to get this sorted out. Play nice with eachother please.
>>34508773I don't think he saw those colours. I'll upload it to the wiki as their pre-Heresy look and point Alexandri to it. He might adopt it anyway.
>>34508669If you want to, that's fine. I'm just trying to make sure people know that a non-administrator doing an administrator's job might look like, god forbid, "Stealing the job of other people." And then they need to be ok with that overlap. >>34508753I get what you're saying. And as long as no one minds Arelex stepping into a job he wasn't meant for, Mr. Archetype Man, then I'm ok with Arelex no longer being an administrator or empire builder. He merely has more data than anyone else, and the people turned to him in the hopes that he knew something they had overlooked, after the Emperor's wounding. Aversion to close combat is *psychological* not *physical*. Sure, he could punch a guy to death, but he *doesn't want to*. It's a phobia, intended to make him more interesting, that's why Arelex hides behind heavy armor, a force shield, and a brace of guns. Ranged combat is what he's more comfortable with. You see the difference? tl;dr, We can drop politician and administrator. Arelex will just be the guy with a lot of dataslates trying to figure out a REALLY huge problem post-Emperor. He'll keep Tech-Guy, and as a subset of that, Big Guns Guy. Sound fair?
If we decide to spare the Eyes, we're going for a very different feel than canon. This is a grimdark universe where forgiveness means weakness, and weakness means death. The Knights will not suffer to live any who raised their arms against their brothers, especially those who helped kill their Primarch.>>34508773Edit it back in bro
>>34508831I'm planning to draw more attention to the fact that he's been burned severely as an infant, and that is the root source of that physical aversion to being touched or engaged in close combat. His earliest memories are of his homeworld scalding him in a boiling river. That tends to leave emotional as well as physical scars, I'd imagine. It's also a metaphor for how touching a burn victim can rip off their scabs and do a lot of harm.
>>34508600I think with the whole mesopotamian deal empire building makes sense, but I also think that that's just what primarchs tend to do unless they're there to lay waste.Looking over the list, we don't seem to have all that many legions doing fast-attack, so I think a more brutal raven guard/more aerial white scars makes some sense.
>>34508860>>34508855Bloody hell Moot. Sorry all
>>34508831I think having someone else toss Arelex the keys to Earth makes it seem more arbitrary.>>34508855Maybe Octullus gets executed and the Eyes re-emerge from the Void Angels in the Third Founding?
I'll leave the fate of Octullus to you guys, i've got to go.
>>34508600>>34508654The Emperor needed bodies for the Heresy.Temporary Pardon, you help me during the Heresy and after that we deal with you.
>>34509010After the Eyes betrayed the Emperor once in the Dropsite Massacre, he gives them a chance to o it again? I find that hard to believe.
>>34508663The guy is making your legion about sieges.Oh and it's Russian now.He seems to be okay with changing the name though so it actually is named like a siege legion, so maybe you can get the name Cataphracts back.
>>34508855They are not sparred, if anything your legion, after Heresy, your legion would try at any opportunity to "judge" any Eyes they can... see.
>>34508873We do need Fast-Attack ala White Scars.
Alright, I'm back. So, roll call for siege fightersSteel Marshalls (work in progress)Silver Cataphracts (artillery and sensibility)Bulwarks (defensive engineers and builders)Horns of Ruin (breaking stuff and bombardment)Am I missing anybody?
>>34509039But their presence at the massacre was minimal and not widely known, and is the Emperor really gonna start fighting another legion instead of letting them help and dealing with the risk of another betrayal?
>>34509161That's a lot already...
>>34509187Would the Eyes go and ask for a pardon in this situation? How did they go about it?
>>34509208Agreed. I'm gonna be reworking the Steel Marshals. They're already listed as fighting the Bulwark during the Crucible, but I dunno if I'm going to keep them as siege-specific troops. We shall see.
>>34509208Well, if we had them focus a little more, maybe it could be:Steel Marshalls (Something)Silver Cataphracts (Artillery and other heavy vehicle weapons)Bulwarks: (THY NAME MEANETH WALLS, THEREFORE I SAY UNTO YOU BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY, AND SPREADETH TRENCHES AND EARTHWORKS ACROSS THE GALAXY)Horns of Ruin: (Not just generic "bombardment", but NAVAL bombardment specifically. They're the guys what loves Battle Barges. And probably collateral damage.)Thoughts?
>>34509257They would probably try and make it as easy as possible to look over. Perhaps send a delegation to the Emperor, telling him that "We fucked up, big time, like huge. But we gotta fix this shit fest BEFORE you can punish us. So let us fight for you now, and we'll finish this AFTER Hektor is dead and accept your righteous and fair judgement. "
>>34509311We also don't have a "tank" oriented Legion yet, I think. Not White Scars in the sense of fast attack vehicles, but a Legion more oriented towards big angry lumps of metal, killing shit dead. Come to think of it, do we have a Fast Attack Legion yet either?
>>34509311Hmm.I'm beginning to consider sappers and diggers. Keep the CQC vibe of the Steel Marshals, because they are tunnel fighters who focus on engineering to circumvent walls, crack foundations, and deliver their men into the heart of the enemy. Swords, boards, shovels, and a lot of very bloody work and precision demolitions.>>34509383I thought the Mastodonii were tankers?
>>34509383Space Marines are already pretty much living tanks, you don't need to have an entire LEGION of them dedicated to a specific vehicle.
>>34509160Alright, a large and fast fleet, with a focus on air power rather than bikes. Jetbikes, t-hawks, storm eagles, fire raptors, air dropped tanks, dreadclaws, Stormwolves.Comparitively few Dreads, with brothers being interred in aircraft.Battle Brothers tend to be armed for close combat, high intensity warfare. Suspensor webs are common, with traditional heavy support squads only being used in situations where prepared positions can be set up for an ambush.The legion makes use of encirclement and feint, etc.Hmm. Barrow Wraiths, I think is better for this, given that Barrow Lords sounds like a phalanx, whereas what we've got here is ghosts vanishing like the morning dew only to return from the shadows with a scream of jet-engines.
>>34509421I might have been wrong about the tank thing, there's been a lot of things written since i last checked through the entire 1d4chan page. >>34509437Not a specific vehicle, just the concept of "These guys prefer Armored Warfare when possible".
>>34509383I think the Barrow Lords, perhaps Barrow Wraiths are taking up the FA standard.See >>34509451
>>34509460Yeah, going by the wiki the Mastodonii are armor specialists.Also, I'm definitely feeling the diggers, though after the crucible they're going to have a crapload of problems trying to salvage their wrecked legion. Loads of dreads and stopgap measures to make up for the wholesale theft of their gene-seed
>>34509499I would say I'm surprised, but judging by your name, it comes as no shock that you're in favor of a shovels-and-flakboard Legion, lol.
>>34509598Funny enough, I actually keep the hell away from that with my guard, preferring a light infantry/airborne sort of deal
>>34501329After many long hours lost in the warp I have returned brothers. What the fuck has gone down? Evidently a lot but can someone give me a quick recap of the thread?
>>34509468They might also use lots of air-dropped whirlwinds for shoot and scoot sort of fire support and Sicarans.The difference between Barrow Lords and White Scars is that the Barrow Lords prefer planes and tanks to bikes, preferring squad close combat ala Carcharodons.
In my original fluff, back when we first made the Primarchs, I had my Legion be an air assault legion>almost entirely focused on offensive warfare>ride in their own version of the Thunderhawk that's more heavily armoured but sacrifices troop carrying capacity>strike hard and fast>ill suited to defenseThe little piece of text we have about Istvaan V reflects this
>>34510004A lot of bouncing around of ideas for Rook, some more bullshit, I'm taking the Steel Marshals, a few jabs at the War Scribes and their primarch.About the usual, really
Right! Just read the thread...still confused! Reposting this for prosperity.THE COUNCIL OF NIKAEA ALLEGIANCES INDEXPro-Psyker Party:Alexandri, Primarch of the Silver Cataphracts.Aubrey The Grey, Primarch of the Eternal ZealotsDarius Cyaxares, Primarch of the Sand Keepers.Rook North, Primarch of the Nova DefendersTollund, Primarch of the Mastodontii.Tiran, Primarch of the Scale Bearers.Voidwatcher, Primarch of the Black Augurs.On The Fence Party:Brennus of the Thunder KingsMerrill, Primarch of the Iron RangersInferox the Burned King, Primarch of The Sons of Fire.Kleisthenes, Primarch of the Scions of EuropaKranios, Primarch of the Horns of Ruin.Octullus Tyran, Primarch of The Eyes of the Emperor?Uriel Starikov, Primarch of the Children of Armok.Anti-Psyker Party:Arelex Orannis, Primarch of the War Scribes.Gaspard Lumey, Primarch of The Void Angels.Hektor Cincinnatus, Primarch of the Wolves of Dawn.Nathanog, Primarch of the Gorgers.Sebastian Rex, Primarch of The Bulwark.
>>34510442Hektor's publicly on the fence but silently supports the pro-psykers.
>>34510464Alright. I forgot to change that. I'll post this in the Nikaea section so it can be saved somewhere.
>>34510442Bohemond is pro - he's worked very well with Darius (shared strong religious-like belief in the Emperor's mission to reunite mankind)
Can someone explain why the Space Wolves, after Nikaea, still had Rune Priests?
>>34510725Because Russ gave absolutely 0 fucks about what anyone else wanted him to do with his Legion's organization and methods.Also, the Wolves always pretended like their Librarians were "speaking to the spirits of Fenris, which TOTALLY isn't Warp magic, guys, we promise!", except the Wolves actually *believed* their own rationalization.
>>34510725Because it wasn't sorcery, so Russ says. Mostly because he's a super special hypocritical fuckwit who deluded himself into thinking his stuff wasn't warp ridden but instead was the voice of the fleas on his wolf gods furry ass
>>34510442Apparently the Crusaders didn't come to this council thingy.
>>34510442Unless someone has precedent to say otherwise, I'm gonna probably pin Roman on the against side. He's not going to be vehement about it, but he's wary of trickery that mimics xenos witchcraft, and finds it to be a distraction from the tasks at hand. So, a moderate against.
>>34511807So, when did drawfag return and where can I find them?
>>34510442Forgot about Sargon. He's pro psyker.
>>34511824Doesn't look like he came back yet. I'm sure he'll come back once hes done with the current portrait. Maybe one of us should go begging in the next draw-fag thread?
I skimmed through the thread, and I absolutely agree with the primarchs needing an archetype. Unfortunately, I think you guys picked the wrong one for Rook. He isn't a great politician necessarily. In fact, I would imagine his sense of humor would make formal public appearance rather difficult.Rook is the smart primarch. That's always what I've intended him to be. He's a strategist. His sense of humor, and easygoing attitude, while some of his more entertaining features, are not what defines him as a primarch. You guys need to stop writing up a bro primarch, realize he's basically a Rowbutt re-skin, and then once we've built a solid foundation start going back and peppering in his dick sense of humor.
>>34512331But what do you think of him as Clark Kent?Also, would you mind terribly if I wrote up the Second Company that became a Successor Chapter? You know while I also work on The Bloodseer, and the Haruspex.
>>34512618As long as you don't pin things in it that will force the legion to go your way.ex: "The Second Company is a band of bros!!"
>>34512331I recommend you come up with your own synopsis of the character then. Give us like, 4-8 bullet points of what you envision Rook as, and then there won't be any confusion, and we can work down the list.
>>34512650Anything remotely deviant from standard Legion practice would mostly appear in how they act as a Chapter.Also a few more pointers about how you envision the legion would be great.
>>34512618I don't mind at all. I'm always open to people writing successor chapters.>>34512658Sure, that seems fair.>Strategist>Solid leader Not the Messiah of leaders like you guys were making him out to be.>Sarcastic dick with a touch of cynical>?????>PROFIT!
>>34512812>fucked up the spoilersINFINITE SHAME
>>34512812A: putting spoilers over bullet points is pretty silly, because it just makes it harder to read. B: What Primarch worth a damn ISN'T a "strategist", or a "solid leader"? That's like saying that a given Tyranid is "Hungry".The only thing with any meaning there at all is "cynical" and that's not exactly something you can build a Primarch around.
>>34512899>What Primarch worth a damn ISN'T a "strategist"I don't think I'm making myself clear. Maybe that's where this confusion is coming from. I originally wrote him up as THE strategist. This is the one field where he trumps the other primarchs. He is really smart. That's his defining feature.
>>34511807Sup bro. You should probably consider filling in your entry for your Primarch on the 1d4chan page. There's a lot of open gaps, and it would be good if we collectively had a clearer picture of who's made fluff, and which Legions are absent.
>>34512965> Strategist> Affinity with Plasma/Light TechAnd now, what we need is some kind of mutation or Primarch-level difference.
>>34512965Ok, so... he strategizes well. That's all that defines him, is good battlefield command, and being a cynical dick?
>>34512965So if he's cynical are we going with the John Connor background?
>>34512812>>34512899Based on what Rook's said earlier, I imagine Rook as a strategist rather than a front line fighter, something like Gorrillaman in 30k. He also sounds like the sort to disdain the messy warfare style of Nathanog, the brutal speed and ferocity of Sargon, the attrition of the Cataphractoi, and the primitive trappings of the Mastodonii.He seems like the sort to plan everything out in advance and with a single, decisive strike, checkmate his enemy. Kind of like Lelouch.So an asshole with a superiority complex and a sarcastic, caustic wit.
>>34513070>So an asshole with a superiority complex and a sarcastic, caustic wit.Someone finally gets it.
>>34513158So then shall we be losing the friends with his men thing? Since that doesn't seem to mesh well with his personality.
>>34513218I guess it could be that Rook's legion is essentially the Marines Malevolent: Bigger, Longer, and More Assholish. They all work well together, but everyone else thinks they're douchebags.
>>34513243So pretty much like most of the Legions we have right now? Alot of them seem like douchebags, and all their brothers think of them as douchebags.
>>34513303Finally, the Heresy makes sense! Nobody liked anybody at all!
>>34513218I wouldn't take it that far. He isn't just a flat out dick, he has a sense of humor. It's like the guy who makes jokes other people would think inappropriate due to current circumstances. The guy who makes a suicide joke in front of a suicidal person knowingly. Maybe more like the guy who mocks death as the squad is about to get wiped out. I can definitely see other primarchs 'not getting it' but his men should.>>34513243I guess, but again, you shouldn't be focusing on the sense of humor. It's a very small part of who Rook is, and who the Novas are. It's just a bit of flavoring to keep him from being "Strategy Guy", and that's it.
>>34513327This Heresy does seem like Chaos would have exploited the splits between Primarchs more than anything else. At the moment, very few of us have any reason to actively work with each other, and it's more like a group of people who all wanted to go their own direction.Less direct conflicts and rivalries maybe, but I bet the Emperor was kinda like "Goddamnit guys, would you all point yourselves in the same direction for one fucking second, please?"
>>34513327>>34513303Well, let's try and make a list of all the legions and how they like each other. Because as it is I agree, too many legions are kinda just douche-y as a side thing so few like each other. I think it would be best if we figured out a way for more legions to like each other/be likeable. I think it's important that a) some brotherhoods are smashed too bits during the Heresy and b) both sides should be working together for some reason other than personal ones.
>>34513396Some were. Alexandri was using Voidwatcher as his principle example of "Here guys sorcery can be harnessed!" Then you fell to the dark side bro. Fell to the dark side.
>>34513385The way things are right now though I would imagine a lot more censures on Primarchs. It kinda seems we decided to make every Primarch the Second and Eleventh.We can fix that though.
>>34513396Just so everyone's aware, if you took all the Primarchs, put their names on a pin, stuck 25 pins on a board, and then drew lines connecting each of them, that's 300 potential unique inter-relations.That's gonna take a hella long time.
>>34513476I agree. There is a reason the Heresy events only ever mentioned relationships between Primarchs when it came up. I've tried to simplify it by just saying Alexandri hates everyone, and he only hates some people less. He's the angry, depressed Russian ruler archetype
>>34513536It's entirely possible that some Primarchs have only met once or twice, like only at Nikaea or what have you. Arelex certainly isn't the kind of person who'd go to any effort to seek people out, unless they happened to extend him their trust, and earn his in return. Then, the bonds are pretty much unbreakable.Except for those times when Arelex made friends with someone who would later turn Traitor. That didn't do wonders for his mental health.
>>34513476Oh fucker. Thanks for that little reality check. I wasn't really taking that into account. I just think it would be important to have at least something similar to that. >>34513445Yeah the Emperor should put his foot down on more different practices and that should be incorporated into more backstories. >>34513431The more I develop the character of the Voidwatcher in my head the more I like the idea of him being something of supreme douchebag, like ridiculous fantasy lich/dark wizard stereotype style. There was never any fall to the darkside, he just wanted to ride being a Primarch as far as it would go and get as much power as he could. He probably wouldn't see how dangerous the Warp could be for Empire because he was only thinking about how it could make him powerful. He manipulates his legion, his brothers, the structure of the Imperium, and post Heresy he's even trying to use the Dark Gods to gather more power. Life is one giant scramble for power and he sees everything and everyone as either a tool or an obstacle. Not that he's actually that powerful but that's his philosophy and how he tries to live.
>>34513369Ok, so he's a strategist.That means he will need people to lead.Taking into account the advanced civilization he lands in, what will he lead his people against?More and more it seems like we are going the John Connors way.A strategist that had to fight against whatever and developed a cynical sense of humor out of it.That makes him kinda cold though. I have to say:We NEED more GOOD legions.
>>34513476>>34513628Correction, it's actually (N*(N-3))/2, where N = number of Primarchs, which is evidently 27 now, according to 1d4chan. I thought it was just 25. so, (27*(24))/2 = 324 unique links between Primarchs. Yay, maths.
>>34513653That uneven number of Primarchs bothers me.
>>34513699We should make three more traitor primarchs.
>>34513653Oh god no. Please, anything but Math.>>34513645I agree about the good legions point. There really aren't very many. I get /tg/ is an angsty depressed place but there need to be more legions like the Salamanders or, ugh, the Space Wolves. They both have their flaws but at their core they're good who want the best for the Empire and are NICE.
>>34513369So if he's the main strategy guy, where does that leave Gaudin? Since from the very start that's what he's been.
>>34513653>>34513699Wait we have more than 22?I never bothered to count the number of Primarchs.
>>34513726>>34513742Do we need more traitors? Cause I'll make a Primarch regardless if we need more.
>>34513765I mean regardless of side, if we need more.
>>34513734I could make the Cataphracts far more loyal with an outlook of 'We do our work for the Imperium's welfare'. Alexandri might be a cunt, but his Legion are filled with guys who are pretty alright. They essentially don't believe in being dicks unless they have to. I even imagine them making small talk with the Imperial Armymen and Strelky attached to their squads from time to time because, hell, why not? They're not really into the image of seeing themselves as 'Angels' or 'Demi-Gods' like so many Space Marines are.
>>34513765Last I remember there were way more loyal legions, than traitor. Also I want to make a traitor legion.
>>34513734If Arelex wasn't more interested in hunting cool bits of shit from the year 25k than he was in people, he'd be rather like that. He wants the best for everyone, he just doesn't give much of a shit about them on a personal level. >>34513742>>34513765>>34513726>>34513699More Traitors seems like an ok thing, at the risk of making things APOCALYPTICALLY complex. I *really* think that before any such Primarchs get made, that we finish *all* the ones we already have on the wiki though.Get their Homeworlds named, get their order of discovery finished, get their bare-bones fluff laid out and stored, all of it. We need that foundation before we add more.It'll be ok, since most of the Primarchs exist as independent, non-connected entities at this time anyway, adding more later won't be that bad.
>>34513645>>34513734I'd been thinking Sargon was a merchant at heart and loyal to the Emperor's vision.Yeah, he fights like he's hellspawn, but it's for a brighter, more mercantile future when the stars are no longer battle fields but trade routes.
>>34513801Agreed.Just remember I called dibs on one of them.
>>34513801Sounds good, I can wait, I'd just like to claim dibs on one if I can. Use the time it will take to finish those we have to think of a new one.
>>34513844Careful there, bro. You've had enough of a hard time defining one primarch properly, let alone two. No one calls anything until we're done with all 27 of the currently named ones. A: Because we're not 12 and this isn't the playground.B: Because first come first served is a terrible idea on a global imageboard where you never know who's even online to see decisons being made. Someone's going to log in ten minutes after everyone grabs what they want, and feel (justifiably) left out.
>>34513801I'd like to call dibs on one of them if someone new without a first founding legion calls one. I really want to make a legion of bikers/punks with mohawks and graffiti razorbacks.>>34513787I like that, I feel like your legion would probably get on well with Imperial Guard and other regular human forces, do you think so too?
You know guys, perhaps i shouldn't stay completely intergrated with the Imperium. Maybe due to my legions cowardly ness and traitorous actions, they are cast bannished, not declared total traitors, but are considered Excommutis, meaning they may not get help from any one under Imperial command, but are not actively hunted or shot on sight (unless they are one of the chapters of istavaan) The only connection between them and the imperium is the hefty Geneseed tithe that must be payed, or they are declated traitors until payed
>>34513909That was one of the points I was going to make in the future with a story. A Cataphract goes to sit by a campfire held by regular soldiers. They all are able to get along and the Cataphract even tells a few jokes and laughs along with one or two as well. Then the shit hits the fan the Cataphract uses the soldiers as a distraction/meatshield, because yeah, they were nice people but fuck dying. It was to show their entire outlook on life. There is no reason to be malicious, but there is no reason to be chivalrous either.
>>34513909You think I should fill out more for The Bloodseer? I mean, I'd rather not fill up the page with a page worth of stuff about one guy.
>>34513884I concur. That's a rather mature route for 4chan, eh?We'll figure it out later.In the mean time, should we try for one line sum-ups or something?
>>34501329So then.Based on the 1d4chan wiki, the Silver Spears, Children of Armok, Machine Guard, Crusaders, Eternal Zealots, Gorgers, Eyes of the Emperor, and Steel Marshals don't have homeworlds. That needs to be fixed. Likewise, Bohemond, Golgothos, Fjordous, Thomas Gaudin, (Darius is partially complete), Roman Alberecht, Rook North, Maranthos, Inferox, (Most of Uriel), ALL OF FUCKING HEKTOR HOLY SHIT FIX THIS ONE FIRST, Malphas, Aubrey, Sebastian, Thoren, and parts of the last 3 Primarchs on the list are all absent. THAT is where you all need to focus your efforts, on filling in those gaps, otherwise no one has any reference material to move forward with.
>>34513955By all means, add more fluff. We'll probably need to eventually make a bunch of sub pages with links back to the main page, where each Primarch can have all the space they need to be written. Unfortunately, I suck shit at wiki things, so we'll need some help from the guys who set up the page to begin with. But, that can come later, a giant wall of text is serviceable enough for now.
>>34513884No dibs? That's entirely fair. My suggestion for a legion stands though. >>34513913You're treading on decidedly thin ice. I don't think we need any legions being wishy washy about it or shifting between the two sides. The interaction of your legion during the Heresy is interesting enough but I don't think they should be seperate from the Imperium. If anything I think they should be more zealous to attone for their actions and it would fit with their paranoid nature. >>34513977Yes YES. Everyone focus on this. >>34513955Not at all. It's cool and I like that you've kinda taken a single character from one legion upon yourself. Maybe see if other mostly complete legions need minor characters or aspects for now? Talk to their Primarchs or maybe we'll see about getting you your own legion. You're certainly dedicated and not a bad fluffer at all.
>>34513913Makes sense, though I do like the idea of Sargon coming to Octullus' aid on Mars, perhaps, if Sargon is something of a peace-keeper amongst the primarchs, then perhaps it is this that keeps them from killing Octullus outright. Also might help if Sargon wasn't at Istvaan, instead doing something akin to Phall.
>>34513909>>34514028Road Warrior legion is a must.
>>34513977Just so more people see the importance of this.THIS.THIIIIIISSSSSSSS
>>34513977Let's start with Hektor.What do we know about him?He's got to be charismatic as all fuck, ambitious, etc.It seems like Psykers and all that are a lot bigger deal here, perhaps Hektor hates the Xenos and the Witches to the point that the emperor's leniency offends him?
>>34514066>>34514028Has the guy who was responsible for Hektor and his Legion been on at all recently? If not, we may need to start collaboratively building the Horus-analogue. Those of you who want a second legion, you might as well start working *TOGETHER* with people on that project. Whatever you write won't be 100% yours, so compromise, play nice, and make a good Horus for us.
>>34514064Lead by the Night Rider?
>>34514124Jesus Christ we need to slow down. I'm getting to excited over this legion. We have to work on >>34513977 first.
>>34514099>>34514119Hektor's creator has been on. And no, Hektor might be a damn xenos hater but he is not a Psyker hater. He's secretly Pro-Pskyer during Nikaea but wants to hold a neutral position as to not offend anyone. Especially since he's already corrupted by that point.We shouldn't do anything about Hektor, but more the unclaimed or uncared for Legions.
>>34514119He popped on once or twice but I think his post got smothered in what I'll now be calling the Rook Schisms so he bailed out. Someone needs to take control of that though, especially if he's the real actual Horus for our AU.>>34514148>>34514124>>34514064Yes, this legion must see the light of day but not now. There are other things to attend to that are much more pressing.
>>34514099Hektor the Bold, Hektor the Beautiful, Hektor the Shining Jewel of the Emperor. The greatest of men, supreme commander and a father to his men. If the Emperor had to point to one man and say "This is my best work", it would be Hektor. Weaknesses he has none, in no area of combat does he fall short, though specialists can surpass him. His Legion is massive and massively powerful, having built their strength from the beginning of the Great Crusade. Hektor stood beside the Emperor himself for a time, all alone. Perhaps Hektor is a psyker, perhaps not. Perhaps he is the SUPREME psyker, the model the Emperor intended for the mature psyker Humanity. The powers of the mind are his, and the Emperor is his guide, but eventually his arrogance leads Hektor to venture too deep into the Warp, where he draws the attention of the Chaos Gods.Any of this seem useful?
>>34514148>>34514099>>34513977So what set off the heresy?Who fell first and why?How did the rest get pulled in?If I recall correctly, Hektor was not first into treachery, it was the Zealots?What do we know about them?
>>34514209Hektor, he was Warmaster.Dude, there is SOME fluff. Read the wiki.
>>34514172Oh? Okay, sorry I didn't realize about him. We'll leave him untouched. We must clean up the other legions too. There are waaaaaaaaay too many empty Primarch slots right now. Way way too many and they all must be filled in, along with their legions afterward. >>34514196We're slowing down on the Hektor front but those are all good ideas, I think he should be a lot like Horus in his being pretty much the best at everything. >>34514209Yeah it was, Aubrey was the Arch-traitor who was burned when his Xeno pals rebelled and the Emperor butchered them and made him watch. This led to him becoming really bitter and turning Hektor to Chaos.That's how I remember it at least.
>>34514024>>34514028Ok, then I will work on The Bloodseer some more for now, and look at some of the other Legions more.Does anyone have anything they'd like for their Legion? I'll see what I can do.A Legion of my own would be cool, but we still need to finish those we have. And right now I cant just take the Clark Kent idea we had thrown around for Rook, cause we need badguys.
>>34514209Im pretty sure it was Aubrey playing the Lorgar-analogue.
>>34514261Go ahead. Keep it up friend. You're doing the Dark Gods work.
>>34514209>>34514250Oh I just remembered! Hektor's creator is actually going to fill in his bio then his Legion quite soon. So no reason to worry about that.
>>34513913Please don't make this more complicated.
>>34514280The first traitor was Uriel of the Children of Armok. Aubrey came later, partially because of the CoA's behind the scenes dickery.That said, I've returned and am starting on the Steel Marshals now. SO...who wants to be buddies with the flakboard 'n shovels brigade? Silver Cataphracts maybe?
>>34514342Oh praise the Emperor! Also that gif is the tits. Godzilla is the true godking of mankind. >>34514367Yes, I forgot about that. Thanks for taking on the Steel Marshalls by the way.
>>34514367Cataphracts don't have friends.They just have people they hate less. That said, the Steel Marshals are similar to them in enough ways for them to appreciate working alongside them. So long as they alright with the Auxiliaries and Imperial Armymen serving as all purpose meatshields and support forces.
OK, I've caught up with the thread, and I have something horrible to suggest.Let's just get rid of the Nova Defenders. We have tried and fought and bled to get a concept that works, and at the end of it there's nothing there.
>>34513977Nathanog has a Homeworld, Thorond-ul.
What have I missed, battle brothers?
>>34514472See: >>34513977GET TO WRITING Other than that? Not much.
I must go for dinner brothers. Keep up the good work and I praise all your dedication to this project.
>>34514525I have a background in the writefag section, just not sure how to effectively truncate it into the various sections.
>>34514431I concur.I'm sure another anon would be more than willing to get an actual Legion in.
>>34514604I actually think we should cut one more, down to 25, which sounds like an intentional number. My pick would be the Barrow Lords, even though Sargon-anon is active, because what concept there is for his guys could easily work as a Sand Keepers Successor.(I know there was stuff upthread about the open spot for White Scars analogues, but that seems like the Scale Bearers if we stop the stuff about them being ridiculously small.)
>>3451465725 would not allow for the even split of the Horus Heresy.
>>34514677There isn't an even split anyway. We already have far more loyalists then traitors. WHich leaves me to wonder, how did Hektor come so close to victory if he was that outnumbered?
>>34514677Sure it does. The Children of Armok have a foot in each camp.
>>34514711Then perhaps we should work on that. Particularly since we seem to have both the defensive specialists on one side. With that sort of expertise how did they even breach Terra?Also how could someone be enraged and cut off the Forces of the Black Augurs at the start of Isstvan V, if at the time they were still 'loyal'?
>>34514461Great. Put it on the 1d4chan page.
>>34514711Well, we're probably going to go ahead and round it off to an even 30 Legions and Primarchs. If we're doing this AU and it has more than 20 Primarchs anyway, why the hell not, let's make it a big ol' fucked up family. Those extra 3 Legions will almost certainly be Traitors, which should help fix the balancing.
>>34514788The whole Heresy is a massive cliusterfuck at the moment. We have no idea who does what, and how the Heresy goes down. We know roughly who was at Isstvan V thanks to >>34502628 , but we don't know where the non-isstvan Legions were, and what happened between Isstvan V and Terra, and even how Terra went down.
>>34514788The Loyalists are considerably less united than in the OU. Not to mention Uriel feeding the Traitors tasty information.
>>34514808>why not thirty primarchs?We're already running into this thing where there just aren't any ideas left. Look at how many times we said "Sorry, taken" to the Barrow Lords. And they still don't have a thing, even though some of the Legions are really, really niche.
So, a problem arises. My desktop bluescreened and won't turn back on. I fear it is dead for good this time. So until the wife finishes with her laptop, I'm gonna have to bow out for the night. I'll see what I can do, but it looks like I'm sunk.A shame.>>34514711Inside information? Or sneakiness? Or maybe parts of the other legions went traitor, but not the whole legions themselves?Fucked if I know. I'll have a ponder on it while I try to unfuck the desktop
I slapped together an 1850 point Entombed list, to give you guys an idea of how they generally fight. Using the custom Entombed rules I put on the wiki.=HQ=2 Reclusiarchs with Terminator Armour and Storm Bolters=Elites=2 Undertakers with Power Swords1 Techmarine=Troops=10 Terminators with 2 Assault Cannons10 Terminators with 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers=Heavy Support=2 Dreadnoughts with twin AutocannonsOssuary Pattern Dreadnought (Demolisher Cannon, DCCW, Extra Armour)No transports because The Entombed fight defensively.Now I'll get to work on converting Golgothos' writefag story into the Primarch info.
>>34514845Well, Traitor Legions can be pretty crazy, because Chaos. Also, we could have it where there's maybe 2 legions for each Chaos god, exploring different interpretations of the Gods.
>>34514845I think alot of that comes from everyone wanting to have a Primarch that is1. A Psyker2. A massive prick3. Specialize in Tech
>>34514900What Primarchs do we have that aren't those three?
>>34514900Nobody wanted to be a jerk until I made it cool.But seriously, the Barrow Lords tried a lot of other ideas.
>>34514900My primarch is none of these things
So seriously, if Rook North and the Nova Defenders are the new strategists where does that leave Gaudin and the Crusaders? If they're getting replaced, then I'd like to be made aware.
>>34514928For the Loyalists: Bohemond, Golgothos, Kleisthenes, Brennus. Maybe Thomas Gaudin,
>>34514900>1. A PyskerNot sure if he is, or just has a small ability amplified by sorcery.2. A massive prickGuilty as charged.3. Specialize in TechWho needs Tech when you have Tactics?
>>34514973I don't think we should replace your guy with a blank-slate Rook North.
>>34514933Having certain levels of bleed over in Legions isn't bad. Hell there is no Air Assault Legion is there? That specializes in Airborne Assaults and Drop Pods.>>34514970It was a generalization, not an exact measure.>>34514973No reason there cant be both, Raven Guard and Night Lords stepped on each others toes, so did Ultramarines, Sons of Horus and Dark Angels to a degree.
>>34515021>there is no Air Assault Legion is there?All the Legions have to be that. They are Marines who go through Space.
>>34515021>It was a generalization, not an exact measure.I know, I was sort of bragging
>>34515054No, I mean one that eschews tanks in favor of more Gunships, casts aside Rhinos in favor Storm Eagles
>>34515021Well instead of just being a "tactical" legion, the Crusaders could be a lot like the Afrika Korps. Large tank formations, good use of infantry and a lot of mobility.
>>34514900Well, I'll plead guilty to number 3, but Arelex would put a bullet through the head of every psyker in the Imperium if he could.
>>34515054The Mastadontii aren't. They're a Tank Legion.
>>34515116Even the Mastadontii need to have the ability to make landings with their own resources.
>>34515132Massive dropships that are void and atmospherical capable.But really, not all Space Marines are Space Marines since 3rd Edition. There is a reason they kept trying to push the name Astartes, that never stuck. Some of them don't even use vehicles AT ALL! 40k is weird man.
Looking for ideas as to what Golgothos and The Entombed did during the Great Crusade.
>>34515132Just landing troops and using Drop Pods isnt what I am getting at though. They are the Air Cav of the Marines, rolling through the battle field on their Gunships all the time. They use drop pods to secure high value locations and then Gunships to support them and bring in more troops or move on to the next target, throwing the tanks other Legions use out the window.
>>34515202Or rather that's the Legion I would make, which is similar to the others, but still different.
>>34515195They lost most of their strength at Isstvan V correct? Maybe they were limited to hit-and-run operations on the fringes, or tried to rebuild as fast as possible ala OT Corax.
>>34514892Yeah, I was thinking one of the traitor legions would totally have to be a group of biker/punk space marines who have bright dyed mohawks and spray painted dreadnoughts who are the pure embodiement of the "I DO COCAINE! YEAH YEAH YEAH" part of Slaanesh and also being the bike legion, like the White Scars. But in all seriousness, as fun as it would be to make more legions the ones we have need to get done and everyones roles need to be pinned down.
>>34515317The Great Crusade is before Istvaan V though.
>>34515202>>34515262I don't see it as a viable specialisation for a legion-sized formation, because this is basically just notanksallowed. It would work for a Successor Chapter - the most generalist guys at the moment are the Scions.
>>34515195You could always sort out a full writeup of the primarch while you come up with stuff.I can see your guys working well with the Marshals in tunnel fighting with your terminators, or alongside the Thunder Kings with a slow methodical war focused on few friendly casualtiesAlso, desktop is unfucked for the time being. Praise the Omnissiah
>>34515409Yet there are entire Divisions based around that in the real world, and multiple Guard Regiments based around that in the setting.Its no different from Biker Legions, or guys that like to land near the enemy and turn everything into a seige. Or units that are cowards rather than Marines that only shoot, or a Legion that does everything through stealth. Of course there would be limited numbers of tanks deployed when necessary.
>>34515510Legions are bigger and rarer than real-world divisions and IG regiments.I'm not crazy about any of these tactical specialities, though some of them have a certain heritage. However, if the majority really want air cavalry Marines, it's going to happen.
>>34515615In the next thread, we need to list what the specialty of each Legion is. I'll get to work on that.
Golgothos entry filled out, Entombed entry re-formatted.
>>34515615Well the key thing to remember is its a fictional setting, where things like Legions of Bikers can happen. Essentially the Legion would be Air Cav White Scars.Anyway we are discussing a theoretical Legion right now, as no one is doing that, and we dont need my Legion yet.
>>34515615Well, there is always going to a precedent for it. That precedent comes in the form of both the Raven Guard and the White Scars. One uses almost exclusively guerilla/scattered squad based combat, and the other places an incredibly heavy focus on literally motorcycles. Other fast attack vehicles as well but still, land based fast attack craft. So I don't think it's that much of a stretch. Also, legions vary in size. I'm going to assume both psyker legions are significantly smaller than the others because that's how it was with the Thousand Sons. Given that was also because they were weakened by the flesh change but still.
The Steel MarshalsBefore the coming of the primarch Roman Albrecht, the Steel Marshals were known by a different name. Dubbed the Astral Marauders in their formative years, they were drawn from tribes of techno-barbarians that had made peace with the Emperor and joined his cause of a unified humanity with an almost religious zeal. With fire and bolter they waged violent war upon their former allies, and were swift to rise to the call of the stars to bring the Imperial Truth to the far flung edges of the galaxy. It was not enough that Terra had become unified; all mankind must be brought to the cause or burned to ashes and cinders. This fervor earned them a poor reputation among the more conservative primarchs, who saw the annihilation of foes who could have been swayed as wasteful.Upon returning to his legion, Albrecht saw an unbridled passion for the cause of the crusade. It was raw, unforged and formless, but it held great promise. He rallied his men to his side in the wake of the cleansing of Chelix, and addressed them amidst the ashes of the heathen palace. There he began to instill purpose into them, shaping the zeal of his troops to something refined and formidable. So began a process that would take a full decade to conclude, but would shape the marauders into the Steel Marshals, the unflinching warriors that would break citadels and shatter walls by the strength of their own hands.
We Needs us a New Thread.
>>34515798New thread at >>34515870