What do you think is the most useful of oMage Spheres? What has the broadest application?

I hope 2e core includes something for mortal and mortal+ characters to do that isn't something the ST has to make up themselves.

Some groups with implied shady dealings would be nice. Or just make 2e core basically cell level Hunter.

>>40992123
I've always thought life was the shit, its about making you better which is a power that anyone would want.

Is it possible to make a vampire who thinks he is still human?

So I don't know how receptive this is to ask here, but, I've apparently been chosen for Player Antagonist in an oWoD game, as a hunter vs...
Three 7th Gen vampires. Do I have any cursory chance of survival? If not, does anyone have any tips? I'm apparently to make do with low funds.

>Today's Topic: What do you want to see in the 2e corebook?

All the other blue book mini-splats, specially Inferno

>>40992823
Powerful oWoD mages can make vampires mortal.

>>40993153

It seems the other players really dislike you and want to rape you in or outside the game

Do you have any idea why would that be?

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>>40993153
>hunter vs...
>Three 7th Gen vampires
Unless you moonlight as a werewolf you are so fucked

>>40993238
It's more of because they assumed I don't really enjoy playing Vampire (which they got accurate, honestly). I mean I think they also figured my excessive paranoia would make it fun for them to try and kill me; apparently their more immediate problem is a goddamn 5th gen.

>>40993245
Expected response. They offered me to use Mage as well, but I'd assume that's even more cheese.

>>40993153
So what do the characters know about you? What do you know about them? What do you have available to you? What are you good at?

And as always go for explosives, tanker trucks and c4 are always fun

>>40993340
They don't even know I exist. My character apparently has saw them around a bit. I've apparently figured out their clan somehow, and I know at least one of them really likes domination and necromancy. Apparently another can only feed off children or the elderly, can't remember.

>>40993153
You have a chance of survival - no, I dare say victory - as long as you never, ever, confront them up front.

My personal favorite is tricking their ghouls to let you into repair their penthouse, put ten pipe bombs into their fridge. Soak that.

You have to be smart. You have to use every possible fucking trick in the HUMAN book. Fuck your Edges beyond stuff like Hide, Witness, Foresee and Pinpoint. You won't be able to win if you roll initiative.

>>40993422
Well if you are a werewolf get spirit of the fray, it means you always attack first. Then step sideways to attack the guy with dominate first if you want to get into combat with them. Find their house and c4 it Take videos of them braking the masquerade and post them fucking everywhere and to everyone. Find where they life to hang out and c4 it. When i say c4 it i mean fill the fucking room with it don't let them survive initial impact if you can. Then get as many defensive and offensive fetishes as possible, then give blowjobs to high rank spirits to attack these wyrm spawn. Or do a wendigo and hijack and nuclear sub and fire missiles at the city they are in. What can your charater do, like what are his skills? Do you have your character sheet you can show us?

>>40993634
He's a hunter. He can't be a werewolf.

>>40993790
Still video them breaking the masquerade and post it all over the city so the prince of the city will be trying to kill them. Never try to fight directly, always use explosives at a distance. See if you can persuade the local werewolf pack to eat them, it shouldn't be too hard as the werewolves innately hate vampires. The main aim is to keep yourself unknown because if they know who you are they will cream you.

Would someone mind explaining the themes for nMage's Paths to me? I know that for Obrimos it's finding a higher truth and imposing order, and for Moros it's accepting transitions and transformations, but what about the other three?

>>40994323
You could read their devblogs

>>40993229
Powerful mages? No, only powerful drugs given to the ST by the player of said mage.

In God Machine, how does "Hold" in grapple work? It simply says "Hold your opponent in place, neither of you can apply defense against incoming attacks"

1: So if the enemy overpowers me, can they free themselves from both the hold and the grapple in one turn, or does he need to do it individually?
2: Can I act within the hold without breaking it, can he?
3: Choke Hold seems elaborate, is it even worth taking?

>>40994323
they're about wanting to teleport and read minds, wanting to be animals and summon minions, and wanting to read the future and have the best dice pools

>>40993422
You're faced with a Giovanni and a Ventrue, both clans focused around wealth and social standing. One trick about dominate is that it requires eye contact; covering up your eyes or averting the gaze will help but it's not foolproof. As other anons have said it's best to confront them indirectly, expose them and ruin their greatest assets for which they have worked so long for.

>>40995125
Forgot to mention that Giovannis are the ones with necromancy and Ventrue are the ones whose weakness is having to feed on one type of a victim.

>>40992719
maybe we'll get more than 3 paragraphs on the Deva Corporation.

>>40995435

Isn't Deva more of a Demon thing than a Mortal thing?

>>40994323
The only one I can remember off the top of my head is Mastigos. Distance is an illusion and with suffering comes strength.

>>40995583
Getting Mortals involved in the mortal side of supernatural stuff would be interesting.
Great thing for the corebook to touch on.

>>40992036
Beast links are dead

>>40995678

Google hosts it here: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B66tiMNn-_PVflpVYlNrQWJXcjRKekdFRmpRdF9ybU5WRzRIc2JmOGdUdUwyaE1SeVBSaFU&usp=sharing

>>40993153
Never fight them head on. Lots of bombs/traps etc.

Once managed to trick another player into finally "catching me" on a cargo vessel.

Loaded the cargo hold with ordinance and blew the thing sky high. Shame about the crew though.

>>40995034
> read the future and have the best dice pools
Remind me again, why isn't Acanthus considered the best path? I mean, past Mastigos with its Mind, but Mind is broken, so sort of doesn't count.

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Since the key to fighting supers is all bombs all the time, how about a fast chap (Celerity vamp, Space/Time/Space-Time mage, what-have-you) with bombs? Nothing quite like setting traps right under the enemy. Try dodging that live mine when it wasn't even there half a second ago, bitch.

My headcanon is that the Exarchs and the Judges chill out in some interstitial realm to trade stories of ultimate human oppression

>>40998300
> the Judges
Who?

>>40998337
The Judges of Duat, magical ayy lmaos who sacrificed a pre-Egyptian civilization to ascend to super-godhood

>>40997752
Because neither Time nor Fate is that powerful straight out of chargen and it's a pain in the ass for STs to deal with. The dice pool thing is literally 1 spell, which you can get through a few legacies or take as a rote. Next to Mastigos, Obrimos is probably best because Forces is straightforward and intuitive while Prime is amazing and allows for Imbuing.

>>40998362
Ah, those judges.
> sacrificed a pre-Egyptian civilization to ascend to super-godhood
W H A T
H
A
T

Was this in Mummy core or what?

Frustrated with the crawl at which exp trickles in, I'm brainstorming for alternate rules. The leading thought is to take the Group Beats rule and just skip dividing at the end, giving the accumulated exp to each player, leveling them as a group instead of individual characters.

How bad of an idea is this?

>>40998441
In the Book of the Deceived I think, they were already beings of living magic, then they sacrificed Irem, its people, and its memory to become... something else

>>40998393
> neither Time nor Fate is that powerful straight out of chargen
True, but by mastership you can pretty much fuck the plot and pull "this never happened and I was never here" shenanigans, while other masters aren't as comparatively impressive.
> it's a pain in the ass for STs to deal with
But that's half the fun.
> Prime is amazing
Never really got it. Always thought it's just "I dispel your shit", mana hoarding, and artefact-making sphere. I mean, those can be pretty important, but still. How wrong am I?

>>40998475
You decide how EXP progression goes, so go with whatever makes sense. Might even simply hand out EXP by session end guesstimated by how much it probably would be needed later and not otherwise keep track of beats.

>>40998475
if the players aren't trying to earn beats what are they going to do with extra exp?

>>40997543
>>40995125
>>40993611
Whoa. This is what I get for sleeping, thanks everybody. If you're all still there, despite what you said, is there still a recommended creed for me? Merits?

Also, forgot the last vampire. Guy has pistols and claws the shit out of things, don't know if that can be representative of any clan. Celerity?

>>40998934

Why are you sharing my write up on here, anon?

>>40998851
They're trying but we only get through 2-4 scenes a game before schedules get in the way, so they're averaging at under 1exp/game.

>>40998608
>go with whatever makes sense
That's what I'm trying to get other opinions on. I've tried fudging it at the end of the session, but that's been met with mild but universal disapproval. Without a visible connection between cause and effect, it was taken as pity points.

>>40999132
Just giving 1 exp seems fair if schedules are fucking everything up.
But then you're penalizing anyone who works for more.

>>40999159
That's where they're at atm and it just feels very slow, progression wise. I mean, they're making decent headway through the actual story, but at this point they'll be done before they save up enough to buy anything interesting.

What I'm thinking of doing instead is having them all pool their beats to raise the group level. So if they earn 16 beats between them, they each get 3 exp and one beat carries forward into next session. But is that too much?

>>40999283
Some games aren't meant to really have a lot of mechanical advancement. What you might do is let them get the experience they do earn, then let them roll that over to the beginning of whatever your next game is.
But that only works if you're playing with the same group consistently.

>>40998878
> claws the shit out of things
Obvious Gangrel.
> pistols
Doesn't fit mechanically, but Gangrel are such tryhards it fits perfectly narrative-wise.
> Celerity
Then again, might be a Brujah who opted for doing aggravated right off the bat instead of getting there with Potency successes. In any case, DO NOT EVER APPROACH ANYONE WITH CELERITY, EVER, YOU WILL DIE BEFORE YOU CAN SAY "I ROLL FOR INITIATIVE".

>>40999561
claw may have been descriptive,

>>40999561
>>40999721
Checked. He really was a Gangrel. More incentive to not get close to any of them. Then again, the Ventrue hates the Gangrel and the Giovanni seemingly wants to manipulate both.

Another split party game tomorrow, everyone else gets to hunt down some supernatural allies among the vampires while I get to chill at a party and try and find a locus in a house crowded with people where several rooms are off limits and the spirit guardian does not like our kind.

>>40999742
Turning vampires on each other is a good way to roll, too.

I suggest maining Vision, so Visionary or Hermit. Foresee & Delve are fantastic. Combine them with Lucky and Forgettable to be able to pull off crazy stuff.

>>41000196
> not taking a dot of Innocence for setting traps
Pleb.

>>41000196
Alright,t hat's what I was thinking. Finally, any background? I was thinking at least resources and a ridiculously high mentor, but would bystanders or contacts be useful? I'm limited to resources three. It honestly would be nice if they let me start out a little bit stronger, but apparently their lack of cooperation makes up for my lack of experience.

>>41000287
Mentioned them already in >>40993611

>>41000332
Was meant for >>41000286, woops.

>>41000287
The more power you give to NPCs, the weaker you are personally. Something like Destiny is going to save your bacon from three vamps more than a Hunter mentor that gets shredded.

>>41000332
Ah, right, forgot about that post.
>>41000374
See, I was apprehensive about taking Destiny, every GM I've played with hasn't been a fan of it. I'll look into that with this one though.

This Facet can only be used while in Dalu. The Uratha’s hands transform into broad, powerful claws that can tunnel through solid materials at a steady pace. She easily tears aside earth, rock, and concrete. The Uratha gains a tunneling Speed equal to her Strength + Cunning Renown.

tl;dr, dig through earth, rock, concrete

Can you think of innovative uses for this?

>>41000655
Digging a secret underground lair for your pack. I guess that might be more an obvious use, though.

>>41000739
Hey anything helps. So far I got digging holes for bodies, digging into buildings through the foundations.

>>41000655
Combine with the Purity Facet of Gift of Strength, pump your Strength up to like 7, move at speed 10ish through rock, stone, and concrete, become a werewolf crossed with the monster from Tremors. Alternately, collapse peoples' houses by ripping up the foundation.

>>41000655
>>41000780
Destabilizing and demolishing buildings and bridges.

>>41000655
If your claws are strong enough to rip through concrete, what might they do to wood? Ask your ST if you can become a werewolf lumberjack.

>>41000851
I think you'd need a fetish for that.

But there's another facet in the same thing that lets you treat metal like clay.

>>41000797
I love second edition werewolves so much.

>>41000907
>lets you treat metal like clay.
Haha, time to carry around solid metal pipes for impromptu handcuffs that require a power saw to remove. Oh, that low harmony Pure? Let's see you shapeshift your way out of an iron straightjacket, dipshit.

>>41001184
That'd be a nice restraint, though there's some tricky ways to get out of things like that. My guy has zip ties but he mostly deals with humans.

>>41001234
Well, there's also some straight up brute force ways, too, like, say, Unchained which automatically breaks free of any binding whatsoever, fuck you, also it's free while Raging, so >>41001184 wouldn't actually work in all likelihood.

>>41001234
I could offer you bottles of durability-5 adhesive for maximum fuck-yous.

In fact, with enough repeat business, I might just be able to offer you some Primum-6 to really fuck with people good!

>>41001291
I was counting that gift as one of the tricky ways. You could just use the same gift that makes it happen in the first place, too. Sculpt. One of those gifts with infinite uses, from turning guns to paper weights to turning baseball bats into swords.

>>41000797
>the monster from Tremors.
Graboids.

So, say a werewolf has the Demolisher merit at 3 dots and thus ignores 3 points of an object's Durability when attacking it. Then he activates the Wisdom facet of the Gift of Strength, subtracting his Wisdom (2) from all objects' Durability and adding 2 extra damage to Structure on each attack in Gauru or Urshul. Does he ignore 5 Durability, or 3, the highest bonus? Also, what benefits might there be to someone who can rip through two reinforced layers of steel like it's paper besides the obvious?

>>41001412

They'd stack. Congratulations, to you, walls are like paper.

>>41001412
Super safe cracking.

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>>41001412
I'd have 'em stack.

Entropy's Howl straight out ignores Durability. For that Black Bolt/Big Bad Wolf/Huff and Puff and Blow Your House Down effect.

>>41001184
>Let's see you shapeshift your way out of an iron straightjacket, dipshit.
I'm pretty sure no jacket designed to hold a man would fit tight around a wolf.

>>41001587
Well, depends, because I was imagining a big old hunk of iron molded skintight around his neck and torso, which would probably even hold the wolf form.

Can a Tzimisce craft weapons with Vicissitude?

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>>40994859
I'm interested in the question being answered if anyone is able. Also the fighting style grappling in the god machine rules shows its 1-5 dots but only has 3 moves, can any one tell me the reasoning? Thank you.

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>>41001634
Yes. Pic related.

>>41001634
Think the third dot allows for bone crafting so sure

>>40994859
>2: Can I act within the hold without breaking it, can he?
You'd have to wait for your turn and see whether you gain dominance in the grapple.

>>41001587
I don't think iron straightjackets are designed to hold a man. They're designed to hold a werewolf.

>>40994859
>>41001658
Hold is basically getting someone in a hold so that your ally can beat on them; think how Piccolo and Goku defeated Raditz. Yes, I did just use an anime example from like 1996.
You break the hold and the grapple; getting out of a grapple means getting out of the whole thing.
You can't act within the hold; the hold is your action.
Choke Hold can end a fight without flat out murdering someone, and is good against people with armour.

>>41001982
Avoid attempting this against something with a steel frame.

Like demons with steel frames.

>>41001412
So, werewolf claws can rip steel beams?

>>41001692
Thank you for the tip.

>>41001982
Thank you for the great example from Dragon ball Z :D Makes it easier to understand as I remember that scene as a kid.

>>41003028
Hmmm What would happen?

>>41003028
demons dont burn hot enough to melt steel beams

>>41003060
They're immune to wracks, are considered armed with at a minimum +0L/-0ini and do not suffer wound penalties. Their bones also are considered steel durability for purposes of breaking.

This doesn't (for some strange reason) by pure RAW prevent you from joint-locking them for lethal damage, somehow, due to bad wording, although it's pretty obvious the statistics given are for not having your bits broken.

Nevertheless, it's a clear indicator that you're dealing with a Demon's battle-form, and they have a staggering number of things you DO NOT WANT to grapple with.

>Unyielding Vice: Each grip is nearly indestructible, capable of holding onto anything that does not destroy the hand (example given is LAVA) and backed by heavy hydraulic systems adding +5 to all grapples.

>Claws and Fangs. Self-Explanatory, but if you're grappling something in WoD you probably have them too so whatever

>Acidic Spit. Now we're headed into trouble. It's Agg damage, and does 2 durability to any armor worn. Also usable as a grapple's bite attack.

>Barbed Tail: Some poison or acid or radioactive sludge is injected and you suffer the grave poisoned tilt. No saves, you just do.

>Electric Jolt: If activated with Aether, grants a 6B touch attack with no initiative penalty for the scene, as well as some armor boosts. It's just bashing, but that's a pretty high number

>Essence Drain MAY not work on all supernaturals (ST can decide some things aren't fuel-convertible) but can quickly zero an opponent.

>Cavernous Maw. AGGRAVATED DIMENSIONAL STRUCTURE-MULCHER. DISENGAGE NOW.

>Memory Theft. If you find out it has this in a grapple, you've just been ragdolled.

>Mantle of Fire: Fire tends to be bad for many splats, and this guy's currently made of it.

>Burrowing Movement Type: I'm not sure how well un-disarmable chainsaw-stat equivalents handle in a grapple, but they're worth warning about.

Demons start with 7 different parts, so it's good to be aware of the potential dangers there.

>>41003087
The right models actually do.

>>41003087
Are you a fuckin retard?

>>41003274
He was making an old 9/11 joke.

>>41003258
so you could just take 7 of those and make a demon form thats just a ball of fuck-everything-up

>>41003258
That is a fantastic answer to my question damn, my buddy would get messed up by that thing. He's playing a washed up wrestler LOL

>>41003284
They're pretty spread across the spectrum, so you can have many, but not all; not on a standard-model starter demon.

3 mods, 2 techs, 1 propulsion, 1 processor.

Nevertheless, demons ARE normally designed to be 'good at their job', so expect one of the above and a slew of systems backing it.

Vampire Dark Ages v20 pdf available? I need it for a game atm, and am buying one once print on demand happens.

>>41003258
Okay cavernous maw you weren't kidding about.
>Any object you can fit into your ear-to-ear unhinged opening just GONE
>Bigger buildings and objects take 2 structure a bite every bite, until there's nothing left
>Damage starts at 2A against 'flesh things'.

You could be Huge, and thus have a mouth proportional to someone who's the size of a small car. Like you're motherfucking Jaws. Combined with Fast Attack.

Toss in a Plasma Drive and you're fucking *on* them in an instant.

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What nWoD games are fully updated to GMC and are ready to play. I'm preparing myself to buy as many of the nWoD books, but I wanna make sure I don't accidently buy any I won't be able to use because they are not compatible.

>>41003368
Demon, Vampire, and Werewolf, at the moment. Core mortals too, basically, though holding off for the actual 2e core book might be smart.

>>41003302
Keep in mind you can't take all of those at once. But that's like 3/4 the melee options listed there.

If nothing else demons tend to be incredibly straightforward - contrary to their usual behavior and cover systems - in true form, at least about what they're going to do to you. You don't really get to hide the fact that you have one arm and a heavy mortar on your back. You can't hide the concentric rows of vibroteeth leading to the light-destroying singularity back in your throat.

Even a werewolf can keep his physical gifts from being so plainly bloody obvious as "rock-crushers everywhere, made of molten metal"

You can get very creative with using what you have, and/or backing it with embeds and exploits, but no one's going to fail to notice that at the very least your "hands" end in foot-long diamond claws.

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>>41003495
>>41003368

Is the GMC worth it or should I just buy the first edition of everything?

>>41003548
Each 2e book has the GMC rules attached, definitely buy 2e where available.

>>41003495
Hunter's got Mortal Remains, brings it in line with 2nd edition.

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>>40997860
SHEER HEART ATTACK

>>41003536
Fair enough, I've not read anything on demons yet. They sound great. I'll have to pick up the book.

>>41003355
>Like you're motherfucking Jaws
The shark or the Bond villain?

>>41003368
>>41003495
Hunter, too, but in a very half-assed way. To play Hunter you need:

1e Core
Hunter core
GMC Rules Update (which is free, but still)
Mortal Remains

>>41003803
Yeah I'm running a hunter and its a shit storm with all the books.

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>>41003803
>>41003569
>>41003603
>>41003368


So if you don't mind me asking, in order to actually start running the game, which books would I have to buy that are in line with 2nd Edition (Which is GMC and worth buying) I apologize for the questions, but there are just so many editions that it's gotten a little confusing. I'm just trying to make sure I buy the right books in order to start.

I've made a list here, from information I've gathered, feel free to tell me if I've added anything wrong, I don't think I'm suppose to get World of Darkness: Inferno because half of it is unusable due to GMC. I think I got everything for Hunter, and there isn't much for Demon so I don't think I missed anything there, but I'm really confused on what Splats to buy for Vampire: Requiem, and Werewolf: The Forsaken.


http://www.drivethrurpg.com/wishlist_public.php?public_id=623964&list_id=1385199&buying_for=roaperable%40gmail.com

>>41004043
World of Darkness (core book - 1e)

You can now run a game.

Add in God-Machine Chronicle to update it to 2e (free).

If you want to run non-mortals/spirits, buy their book. 2e version exist for Vampire, Werewolf, Demon & Hunters, as discussed.

>>41003803
>The shark or the Bond villain?
Yes.

I'd specify, but it's not necessary.

>>41004061
>>41004043

Or you can wait a few months for the 2e core book to be released. Your choice.

>>41004043
>which books would I have to buy
HAVE to? None
But most of that stuff there is "unusable" due to being 1e. It's still worth buying if you've got the scratch to drop a couple hundred, though.

>>41004090
>A few months
Look at this true believer over here, get a load of his optimism!

>>41004105
Few is, in this case, less than 10.
But I agree, I am being optimistic.

Hey, didn't DaveB promise us a new Mage 2e spoiler in his playtesting blog entry? It's been three days...

I assume he's busy reviewing all the playtest requests and tweaking the new iron-clad NDA's necessary because of the Beast leak. Nevertheless, I hope he posts new spoilers soon. He really shouldn't tease if he's not serious. ;)

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>>41004043
>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/wishlist_public.php?public_id=623964&list_id=1385199&buying_for=roaperable%40gmail.com

Hey boss, you've got the first editions of both Vampire and Werewolf. Switch to the 2nd editions.

I would say hold off on buying the core book because they're going to be rolling the 2nd edition corebook out sometime in the fall but I already own the 1st edition core book and you kind of need that to play.

Everything else besides Mortal Remains, Demon and GMC(obviously) is first editon, but Innocents and Inferno are such damn good books that I'm not going to recommend you not purchase them, just bear in mind that you're going to have to adapt the mechanics to 2nd edition yourself which is only really going to be hard for Inferno.

>>41004133
Well, the edit hit yesterday, and that's when he promised a new spoiler "soon". I think that means "as soon as he is done with these applications".
So probably Monday.

>>41004133
He gave us time spells

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>>41004043
>>41004061
>>41004090
>>41004156

I'm starting to question if this gameis really worth the trouble one has to go through to sift through all the editions and splats. I mean, I really like Urban Fantasy and Horror, which is my main reason I haven't given up on this like I did D&D in general, too many books to be worth the hassle. I know a lot of people say just buy the core, but I always like to get the full experience when I play.

>>41004372
If you don't want to play as monster then just buy core and the (free) GMC update. Urban horror: done

>>41004372
Do you know what gameline you're looking to play, or are you just blindly buying everything?

>>41004162
Not allowed to post blogs on Monday. That's when Rich puts the Monday Meetings up.

What would you *like* to see, that we haven't already looked at?

>>41004440
The finished book in full please

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>>41004401
The way my group plays, is we typically have just one continuous story, so I'd like to have as much as possible in case I need it there. One of the reasons I decided upon nWoD as compared to Classic is that all the gamelines are suppose to be able to fit together if the storyteller wants right? I just thought I'd take full advantage of that.

I'm not exactly blindly buying, Because I'd like to in the end have all the cores, plus the main splat books all compatible which I know isn't viable right now. I've done the same thing with Shadowrun 4th Edition where I hunted down all the splats but obviously The World of Darkness is much different than that.

>>41004440

I'd like to see more info on the new Arcana with the most revisions like Forces, Prime, Life and Space, particularly now that the "speed bumps" have been removed.

More info about supernal beings would also be interesting now that they apparently are more central to the game and appear more frequently.

>>41004475
>>41004372
>>41004043
Essentially right now is a bad time to be someone getting into the World of Darkness but a good time to be someone already a fan of the WoD.

WoD sort of got screwed royally by CCP. Originally they didn't allow Onyx Path to do a full on second edition (Vampire and Werewolf 2e were called "Blood & Smoke: The Strix Chronicle" and "Idigam Chronicle" respectively) but with a new publisher and people in charge and shit they really wanted to go through and revise the now ten year old rules of the WoD. The answer was "Chronicle" books. Basically books that would serve as a specific focus for a certain type of chronicle while also updating the rules.

The problem is that the MMO flopped, not even getting off the ground because it didn't have enough "psssh" and then CCP gave OPP the go-ahead for making second edition books. After they'd already released three books that had half-assed back-of-the-book rules updates.

So currently:
>Demon requires
Core, GMC rules update, Demon core
>Vampire requires
Vampire 2e
>Werewolf requires
Werewolf 2e
>Hunter requires
Core, GMC rules update, Hunter core, Mortal Remains
>Anything else
Requires various levels of homebrew

It's incredibly fucked up, but hopefully by 2017 it'll all be fixed.

>>41004440
Spell Factors, pretty please?

>>41004372
>I'm starting to question if this gameis really worth the trouble one has to go through to sift through all the editions and splats.
Play Kult.

>>41003312
Why even call these things deamons? Was deceptacon just too copywrite infringey?

>>41006166
Probably because they're fighting against unicron and try to live WITH the humans.

>>41006862
So they are Autobots.

>>41006166

The part where they're deceivers in rebellion from god, bargaining for your soul?

What do I need in nMage to create a dinosaur tree for immediate combat purposes?

>>41007109
>dinosaur tree

You mean a wooden dinosaur, or a tree that grows velociraptors?

>>41007132
Grows velociraptors, among other things

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>>41004440
Item Imbuing rules.

What's a good place to find groups for first time players?

>>40992823
You've probably moved on by now, but yes. Vampires in oWoD and nWoD aren't all that different, and there are a few mentions of oWoD vampires thinking they're still human - the Victim of the Masquerade flaw, as well as a Gangrel concept in the clanbook, if I remember right. There are no differences between vampires in the two games that would invalidate those two concepts.

>>41007539
>Victim of the Masquerade
I was looking for this thanks

>>41004440
>What would you *like* to see
My playtest application accepted!

But more seriously, I think what >>41004495
said would be best, especially the bit about supernal beings.

>>41006898
The god machine is a second rate antagonist that comes nowhere close to being The God in the setting, and utterly fails at giving any impression of divinity. Robo-Cithulu =/= God.

>>41007109
Hmm. Sounds like a job for Life and Prime (for extra juice to your biomancy). Maybe Spirit's higher tiers.

>>41008385
It's not an antagonist, it's a plot device to allow for large scale weirdness. It can also serve as a warning for any munchkins that decide to link powers and items together to try an make occult engines (mages, I'm looking at you). Before gmc there was no in setting answer to why people didn't do it as industrial automation seems like the logical step forward. Now the answer is that people try and angels show up with a welcome basket of consequences.

>>41008385
>The god machine is a second rate antagonist that comes nowhere close to being The God in the setting, and utterly fails at giving any impression of divinity.
>missing the point

you realize that is exactly what is going on. God-Machine is a sobriquet, it is emphatically not God, and it isn't divine, it's incredibly fucking weird

it gives the illusion of divinity to certain people so that they'll do what it wants, but that's one facet of it, and if you're looking for it to be THE GOD or whatever, not only are you an idiot, but you're not really getting what nWoD is about as written

if you want an abrahamic god in your game, use the Demon Translation Guide or something. That's not idiotic (it IS an indicator of your shit taste, but w.e) but it's not what the God-Machine is.

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>>41008385
>The God
>world of darkness
>monotheism

>>41008385
Why do so many people in this thread just fall back to arguing semantics?

>>41009265
Because some can't into descriptivist language

>>41009063
One of the things that turns me off the God-Machine is the good old nWoD Turnaround. That is, starting off a franchise or game line with one idea (mostly a sandboxy one without too much metaplot), and then later spinning around and completely shitting on it. It happened in Requiem with clans - the first edition boiled clans down to five, all of which neatly fit a classical fictional archetype, and then it ruined it with all the bloodlines. The God-Machine is similar - there was great focus on the nWoD having no clear metaplot and making it into a supernatural sandbox, and then along comes the God-Machine. There's nothing wrong with either in themselves, but the way it's been done speaks a lot of exactly how much Onyx Path cares about consistency (as soon as players demand change, they obey them without thinking of the canon) as well as turning the nWoD into a complete tangle of themes and moods. That's not a good thing for a game line that relies on those.
>>41009175
That's something that came in with the nWoD and its Wiccan-girlfriend pandering. The oWoD has always been mostly monotheistic, and I dare say it worked pretty well. Instead of a clusterfuck of the writers' girlfriends' Wiccan beliefs and a "lol so randumb Cthulhu tentacles madness Yellow King" attempt at edgily deconstructing the idea of an Abrahamic God, the oWoD had a God that was basically the Abrahamic one, but presented in a way that created moral conflict. The nWoD had to rely on a strawman to bring Abrahamic religion in focus, which hurts actual roleplaying about divinity and the nature of God (as SJWs can be very sensitive about that, natch), but the oWoD just took the Abrahamic God and focused on analyzing the things he actually did in the Old Testament. No points for guessing if I prefer an edgy Lovecraft Lite strawman over an ambiguously-moral analysis of the actual Abrahamic God.
The nWoD claims to be more socially critical, but it's full of strawmen and so PC it can't say much.

>>41008385
GM is a giant extra dimensional parasite that uses an illusion of divinity to manipulate humans. It's not Yahweh and has never been portrayed as such.

Its just a buggy version of the Principle trying to remove other ur-entities

Ya'll wrong

Above all things, the God-Machine is my friend

>>41009415
oWoD is oWoD and not nWoD.
nWoD explicitly has multiple dieties running around as high rank spirits.
oWoD was very invested in its metaplot, while nWoD purposefully makes things vague because it's supposed to be a tool box, not any specific setting. The 2e splats go so far as to remind you at every turn just how few things are nailed down and how much wiggle room the ST has.
nWoD just doesn't give a shit about christianity, because the game isn't about it and every book that comes out post GMC reinforces the point.

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>>41009421
Well, you know...
"you steal men's souls and make them your slave" has applied to many things before...

Just because The Machine is not named yahweh doesn't mean it doesn't re-wire and consume fervent believers in nearly the same way.

>>41009421
>>41009551
Why would it care about souls or manipulating humans? It has an agenda and needs tools to get shit done. If it can't find them it makes them and if there's slag in the way, it just gets rid of it. It can accomplish its goals in any number of ways, but what it would and wouldn't do is hazy and purposefully left up to the ST.

>>41009415
Firstly, how does the God-Machine destroy the idea of not having a clear metaplot? No one knows what's up with it, who built it, why it does what it does, etc.
Secondly, how is this Wiccan or Lovecraftian? The God-Machine isn't a spirit, nor is it a being of incomprehensible chaos inherently inimical to the world; it's incomprehensible order, true, but it's weird without being alien, per se.
Thirdly, oWoD's monotheism was thrown completely out the window if you played Werewolf, was wholly unimportant in Mage, and still just vague background fluff in Vampire. It only took center stage in Demon.

>>41009674
It does consume souls and manipulate humans. Just not in the usual "I'll trick all these people" way, but in a much more direct cranial-override fashion.

It's rarely direct control, but it is *applied* directly. Stigmatics and Activated Offspring, for example.

>>41009415
>It happened in Requiem with clans - the first edition boiled clans down to five, all of which neatly fit a classical fictional archetype, and then it ruined it with all the bloodlines.
You seem confused about how Bloodlines work (first off, they were in Requiem 1e core). They aren't even intended to all exist within the same world.

The nWoD doesn't have a metaplot. While at this point the God-Machine ~basically~ exists, it doesn't need to matter for anything other than Demon or mortal games that focus on it, the same as the Exarchs and Pure don't matter outside of their respective games.

Furthermore, The God-Machine existed in the corebook and also isn't explicitly the Abrahamic God, and nor is it a strawman. The nWoD isn't even being critical of Christianity in the first place.

>which hurts actual roleplaying about divinity and the nature of God (as SJWs can be very sensitive about that, natch)
Why would SJWs even care about that? Stop creating a boogieman. The three word phrase SJW should give you a five minute ban from 4chan and the message should just be the disapproval look ಠ_ಠ
Also there's nothing ambiguously-moral about oWoD's "I just want to punch God in the face" attitude, while the GMC and Demon constantly point out that the God-Machine is sort of a necessary evil in a lot of ways.

>The nWoD claims to be more socially critical, but it's full of strawmen and so PC it can't say much.
It really doesn't, and it really isn't. "Christianity is right except it was all Lucifer and YHWH is evil!" isn't any better.

>>41009675
>Firstly, how does the God-Machine destroy the idea of not having a clear metaplot? No one knows what's up with it, who built it, why it does what it does, etc.
The fact that the GMC book gives several conflicting origins and purposes, many of which contradict Demon, should really be a hint.

>>41009421
>>41009551
>>41009674
>>41010014
The God-Machine doesn't steal souls. It just manipulates people and Infrastructure towards it's own ends, which are to continue to grow and maintain itself. It's an ant-hive. It's just sometimes also cordecyps and Stigmatics and Offspring are the ants.

Also I prefer to think of the God-Machine not as the Principle but as half of a whole with the Principle. Both of them are clearly broken, and functioning improperly.

>>41010148
I didn't say steal.
I said consume.

Matrix wants an output.

>>41010148
>several conflicting origins and purposes
That reinforces the idea of not having a clear metaplot.

>>41010252
I was elaborating, not disagreeing.
>How does it destroy the idea of no clear metaplot?
>"The fact that it gives so many conflicting options should really be a hint [that it doesn't give a concrete metaplot]"
Nevermind that unless there's a supplement that says "AND THEN THEY DESTROYED THE GOD-MACHINE" there's no metaplot, just plot.

It's only metaplot if the timeline advances and things happen in spite of the players.

Pathfinder has a metaplot (or at least Society play does). Shadowrun has a metaplot. oWoD has a metaplot. Their settings advance(d in the case of oWoD), with books being written that take place later in the time line and reference--thereby canonizing--things that happened in the previous books.
If I play PFS and my character kills Grandmaster Torch and then next week I play part two of the scenario and Torch is alive, that's the metaplot.

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>>40992036

>>41010547
That picture says more then everyone on the board talking about new vs old darkness and meta plots lol.

>>41010380

People care about Pathfinder?

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>>41004679
So is it even worth it to try to start into nWoD right now or should I just give up and come back in 2017.

>>41011050
if you want to play one of the lines already in 2e, go right ahead!

>>41011050
If it makes you feel better I'm putting together a Hunter the Vigil, its abit of work but you just move around the old rules.

i know atamajakki is a faggot, but seriously, take a shot everytime a moron refers to the God-Machine or the Strix as the new metaplot

>>41011180
stay away from 4chan then, because you will die of alcohol poisoning

>>41010657
>>41010547
Neither of those statements makes a lick of sense.

>>41010921
Turns out that, yes, people care about the current best selling roleplaying game.

>>41011050
Yes, but trying to get into Hunter takes some doing. If you're wanting to do Vampire, Demon, or Werewolf, you're fine. Or just mortals.

>>41011180
That's his forum signature, right? When he was posting here on /tg/ didn't he constantly do that?

>>41009675
>Firstly, how does the God-Machine destroy the idea of not having a clear metaplot? No one knows what's up with it, who built it, why it does what it does, etc.
Because it automatically puts this one, named, massive being into a setting about ignorance and mystery. It's hard to have mystery when you already know what the mastermind behind whatever the game's plot will be is. Part of the appeal of nWoD mortals is that it was a game about bumping into the things that go bump in the night, the default assumption being having NO idea what you're going to bump into, and a decent possibility that you'd come out of the encounter having no idea what the deal was with that thing both IC and OOC.

"Oh, it's God-Machine Infrastructure" as the go-to explanation for literally any kind of weirdshit can kill the mystery quite a bit. When you play nWoD werewolf you know that the weird shit is probably going to be due to spirit stuff, and when you play Changeling you know that the weird shit is probably going to be due to fairy stuff, and it was nice that the core mortals gameline didn't have a go-to explanation for weirdshit.

>>41011050
Only if you want to play Vampire or Werewolf. If not, wait for the proper second edition corebook for whatever you're going to be playing (including Mortals). Or, if you think the 2e version looks like it's gonna be shit (like a lot of people seem to with Changeling), get the 1e corebook and then the 1e Changeling corebook (or whichever).

>>41011406
>people care about the current best selling roleplaying game.

do they care about its plot, though, or do they just play it cause it's DnD 3.75?

>>41011714
Honestly I wouldn't even know what shit looks like in this game. I've spent my 20 years of life playing Traveler, CoC, and Shadowrun. I'm completely new to this series which is why I'm asking for help.

>>41011654
Seems like Corebook 2e will fix this a bit by having a Dread Powers based monster situation.

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>>41012073
Hm... In relations to things you know, that might help you get started:

>Demon
The Matrix is sapient, malevolent, and so large that it's leaving most of us alone most of the time because fuck trying to focus on individual cells in your body.

Sometimes, rogue AIs fragment off the big one and start to work against it. They can use matrix actions on reality, total-overwrite the occasional cyber-brain, and hide their entire frames dimensionally inside normal meatbodies to escape notice as much as possible. Demons are how the universe hopes to give that fucking planet-AI cancer.

>Werewolf, Vampire and a few others
Fuck investigators, you're playing the thing skittering in the dark the investigators were supposed to run into at the climax. Turns out there's worse things further into the shadows too, and sometimes you gotta play the wall to those assholes.

>Hunter
CoC modern, except nowadays guns and high-explosives, and the general science/knowledge from having dissected enough of those horrible things means you can usually probably deal with whatever non-euclidean rapebeasts are behind the curtain. Things you may have to deal with - one way or another - include all of the aboves (protip: don't sell your soul but minor pacts with demons can net you fucktons of good stuff for an incredibly low 'price'.)

Traveller:
no, if you want not-in-space traveller I suggest you check out Ryuutama or Twilight 2013. Both will give you that Harvest-Moon feeling traveller inevitably turns into at our table. Pic far too related.

>>41011654
>thinks the God Machine is its name

You didn't seem to have an issue when the Illuminati or any other conspiracy existed.

>>41011654
>Because it automatically puts this one, named, massive being into a setting about ignorance and mystery.
That is a) NOT FUCKING METAPLOT, THAT IS SETTING YOU INCOMPETENT MOUTHBREATHING NEANDERTHAL. I THOUGHT WE MURDERED OR FUCKED YOUR KIND OUT OF EXISTENCE DURING THE PALEOLITHIC ERA. b) it's only a one, named, massive being that plays a part in certain chronicles. The World of Darkness is all about great cosmic entities. The Abyss. The Exarchs. The Strix. The Principle. And now the God-Machine. Which was actually already in the corebook to begin with. It is not the mastermind behind anything and everything. It is not the default assumption. It is not the go-to explanation for literally any kind of weirdshit.

And in fact if you're using "it was spirits" or "it was fairy stuff" in Werewolf and Changeling for any and all weirdshit, you're kind of doing the game a disservice.

>it was nice that the core mortals gameline didn't have a go-to explanation for weirdshit.
Actually the corebook uses ghosts as the weirdshit, and a lot of the bluebooks use spirits as well. There's no reason that all the weirdshit needs to be God-Machine based, no more so than for Vampire it needs to be Strix based or for Werewolf Idagim based or for Changeling Huntsman based or for Promethean Firestorm based. Weirdshit exists independent of the default chronicle suggestion.

Doing every mortal chronicle as "THE GOD-MACHINE DID IT!" is like doing every Hunter game where you only use Vampire: The Requiem rules for vampires or Werewolf: The Forsaken Rules for werewolves. Sure, you can, but it doesn't add much to the game. The God-Machine Chronicle is no different than Inferno or Second Sight or Book of Spirits.

>>41011803
Both, it seems, considering how well it's modules sell and how well it's organized play is doing.

>>41012363
Wow that actually heed a fuckton. Thanks man. Another question, do I need the Core book (Mortals) in order to play any of the other gamelines? Or does it stand on its own?

>>41012932
Helped, sorry. My phone has auto correct. Also does anyone else have trouble understanding Mage the Ascension? nWoD makes me feel kinda dumb.

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>>41012960
>>41012932
This might help
http://www.thesubnet.com/portal/wod2/wod2.0/CreationGMC.html

Also, Ascension is oWoD

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>>41013118
Awakening. Pardon me.

>>41012960
>Also does anyone else have trouble understanding Mage the Ascension?
The metaphysics of Awakening I get just fine. What makes me feel dumb is "So what can X dots of Y sphere actually, mechanically -do- beyond the rather underwhelming sample spells". I hear people talk about Mages being ridiculously OP and versatile, but below 3 dots or so they seem stiff, weak, and janky. Which makes me suspect people are overblowing Mages (Which I doubt), or the corebook is really bad at explaining what magic actually can do.

>>41013303
All I know is that apparently Mages can smoke any other creature as long as they have time.

>>41013391
Anyone can do that. Mages just have more options for it. Most of the time C4 will deal with them just fine.

Does Vicissitude exist in nWoD

>>41013535

Nothing fun exists in nWoD

Its the SJW paradise

>>41012181
>Seems like Corebook 2e will fix this a bit by having a Dread Powers based monster situation.
This is a major reason I'm looking forward to the proper 2e core.

>>41012704
>The God-Machine Chronicle is no different than Inferno or Second Sight or Book of Spirits.
It's different in that it presents itself as the core rulebook, at least until the real corebook is out.

>>41013535

You can use the Vampire Translation Guide to convert it to Vampire the Requiem 1e mechanics. It shouldn't be too hard to use those in VtR 2e if you wanted, however.

>>41012960
>>41013292
>>41013303
The key thing to understand is the practices. The presented rotes are just sample spells and you can do all of them so long as you have the required dot rating (although you have to pay 1 mana for improvising them unless they're your path's ruling arcana or you have the rote). Things don't really pick up in versatility until dot 3.

• is really basic things, but is enough to get new insight into a scene, analogous to divinations/scans in other systems. You can find out what kind of phenomena there are in the area, sense someone's relative health without knowing anything about biology, find where the dealer keeps their stash, get a better wifi signal, etc.

•• is buffs, concealment and minor superpowers, including souped up versions of • effects. You could create a wifi signal for a device where there isn't any, even if that would be impossible like in a faraday cage. You could speed up someone's recovery, even if they're under the effects of something that would normally kill them with enough time. You could ward your stash so that even drug hounds wouldn't be able to find it.

The important part to understand about the system is the division of powers among the practices. With the correct actions, you can suss out the effects of higher practices at lower levels, just like how science gets a lot of insight through very small clues in controlled experiments.

>>41013535
No. Feel free to import it if it's your game, but I doubt that any ST would let you. At that point you might as well play oWoD, maybe with the translation guide.

>>41013535
kinda, the novergi have something similar. however the vampire translation guide has it to use, so you can check that out.

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accurate?

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>>41015206
>vampires stronger than archmages

>>41015206
Uh.
Not at all
Mortal hunters can kill an Elder with ease.
Mages can vary as much as a normal human to Antediluvian
Werewolves can literally become as strong as a fucking Antediluvian.
The True Fae in OWoD aren't at all powerful.

>>41015379
>Werewolves can literally become as strong as a fucking Antediluvian.

The Ravnos antediv managed to rise in India and it took 3 elder Kuei Jin, an orbital laser and a magic nuke to kill him, after he ate most of his clan and drove the rest insane. Can a werewolf really top that?

It's a genuine question, i'm not tryinb to be sarcastic

also, how old and strong is a vampire elder?

>>41015616
Vampire Elder is 300+ years old
Vampire Methuslah is 1000+ years

Werewolves of Legend can rip through an Arch-mages shielding, disable all their powers, and punch them in the face.
They can also summon earthquakes and volcanoes.

>>41015379
>>41015655

Can a human hunter really kill a 300 years old vampire with ease?

Or maybe you mean a group of hunters vs a single elder?

>>41015857
A single guy with a flamethrower can kill a 1000+ year old vampire if they're clever and lucky.

Fire really kills everything good.

>>41013596
Vicissitude literally allows sex changes. If nWoD were an SJW paradise, it would exist.

>>41013535
Night Doctor Surgery does the lower end stuff, and Protean allows for the shapeshifty stuff. Cruac can do a lot of the Vozhd stuff.

>>41013919
Having an appendix with a rules update does not make it a corebook.

>>41015379
>>41015206
Are True Fae even a thing in oWoD? I don't even understand this chart, it assumes a strict linear range.
Also, what are those jizz stains at the end of Hunter and Vampires?

>>41015931
>Are True Fae even a thing in oWoD? I don't even understand this chart, it assumes a strict linear range.
They are but they're not really god like beings as the ones in NWoD. They can ruin your day, but a Mage can punch them in the face with ease.
>Also, what are those jizz stains at the end of Hunter and Vampires?
Photoshop effects?

>>41015871

Considering this guy's post >>40993153 and the answers to it, it seems unlikely

But, since i really don't know much about hunters, i can't really argue. I'll accept what you said as true, until someone proves otherwise.

>>41015931
>Also, what are those jizz stains at the end of Hunter and Vampires?

i see nothing

are you talking about the pink thing?

>>41015981
Being lit on fire requires a Courage roll at Diff 8. Assuming Courage 5, you have a 35% chance of bolting from the guy. You also need to get five successes.
Botch = 9.031 %
Fail = 26.061 %
1 = 29.43 % | for ≥ 1 success is 64.91 %
2 = 22.68 % | for ≥ 2 successes is 35.48 %
3 = 10.125 % | for ≥ 3 successes is 12.8 %
4 = 2.43 % | for ≥ 4 successes is 2.67 %
5 = 0.243 % | for ≥ 5 successes is 0.24 %

Fire does 3 agg per turn plus the extra successes from aiming the flamethrower. This means a guy with Dex 3, Firearms 3 has 6 dice to hit with. It's a blast weapon so the difficulty drops by 2 so Difficulty 4 to hit.

Even an Elder with Fort 6 is gonna have a hard as fuck time surviving a flamethrower to the fucking face because he'll either run away and die from the 10 turns of 3 agg per turn + the initial roll to hit. Or he'll be trying to fight, kill the single hunter if he finds him in the blaze and he'll die from the aftereffects of the fire.

It's piss easy to kill a Vampire unless they're prepared to fight and the Hunter has no element of surprise. That's what makes Hunters scary, they have the ability to appear out of the crowds and light you on fire.

>>41015871
Surely fortitude would just say fuck off to the flamethrower, what's the damage of a flamethrower?

>>41016236
see>>41016148

>>41016148

>It's piss easy to kill a Vampire unless they're prepared to fight and the Hunter has no element of surprise. That's what makes Hunters scary, they have the ability to appear out of the crowds and light you on fire

That's actually pretty cool. Humans are the muslims terrorists of WoD.

>>41016268
Yeah and that's why you enforce the fucking masquerade and never piss off the Wizard.

Seriously, a Hermetic can just punch an Elder to death or make sunlight bombs or turn a candle into a flamethrower.

Vampires are vermin, not gods.

>>41016148
But the average damage dice would be 6 which is the same dice this elder has for fortitude so it might fuck him right over or he might get lucky and not feel shit

>>41016367
Uh no. It's 3 LEVELS of Agg + dice from how well you hit for the first attack.

AND the difficulty for the Elder to soak the Fire damage is 8, not 6. He'll be lucky to get 1 or 2. Average this over 10 turns he'll be dead by turn 6.

This is assuming he also doesn't get shot at with more fire or by some punk with a sniper round. Incendiary bullets are also equally terrifying.

Botch = 7.0993 %
Fail = 24.2289 %
1 = 26.6328 % | for ≥ 1 success is 68.67 %
2 = 23.4495 % | for ≥ 2 successes is 42.04 %
3 = 13.122 % | for ≥ 3 successes is 18.59 %
4 = 4.5198 % | for ≥ 4 successes is 5.47 %
5 = 0.8748 % | for ≥ 5 successes is 0.95 %
6 = 0.0729 % | for ≥ 6 successes is 0.07 %

>>41015952
>>41016056
>i see nothing
>Photoshop effects?
Tilt your screen back. There's something blurred out; the white of the background and the white of the blurring aren't the same hue.

>>41016465

i see it now

this picture was edited over and over
if you look closely, you can see that the vampire power bar was extended, when before it was just below the archmage

>>41016421
Where does it say that it is at difficulty 8 to soak fire? Also where does it say that it does 3 levels, I can only find it saying a flamethrower does 2 levels?

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>>41016876

>>41016910
Google tells me the a Bunsen burner and a flamethrower burns at the same heat so that's difficulty 7 and in a WtA book it claims a flamethrower does 2 health levels. Can't screen shot it but I can tell you which book and page if you want.

>>41017066
Also the same book claims its difficulty 7 to hit a target

>>41017066
Mage, the book that has the only combat rules you need for OWoD has them do 3 levels.

Werewolf's rules are also fucking terrible and wrong compared to Vampire's and Mage's in several places. They have a varied combat system from the rest.

>>41017106
Which edition we talking about here?

>>41017172
We only talk about X20 here mate.

>>41009415
>clusterfuck of the writers' girlfriends' Wiccan beliefs and a "lol so randumb Cthulhu tentacles madness Yellow King" attempt at edgily deconstructing the idea of an Abrahamic God

solid bait.

>>41009674
Creating an angel is extraordinarily resource-intensive, and the GM values efficient resource management. If a human can get something done, get the human to do it.

>>41017185
Flamethrower Napalm 60 1 Special N #12
Napalm 10-50 Special Yes #9
#9 = Jellied gasoline; aggravated damage. Storyteller rolls one die to determine how much flaming napalm hits a given character,
then rolls that many dice per turn for 10 turns. Not extinguished by water, only by total lack of oxygen. Successful dodge reduces
damage dice pool by one die per success.

Either I'm looking at the wrong rules, or its written worse then WtA

>>41017348
That makes perfect sense.
The hell are you on about.

>>41017327
>If a human can get something done, get the human to do it.
And more often than not, they do. But it's much easier to manipulate people through stigmatics or material resources than to impose some sort of divine will.

>>41017359
Werewolf gives you straight damage in one text block, here you got to look up multiple the asterisks and go to different pages

>>41015871
How do you intend to deliver, of all things, a flamethrower and its operator to that kind of close range from a super vampire?

>>41017533
Car

>>41017388
Oh, yeah. I didn't mean just like "possess the human." Bribing or threatening them is the easiest way to do it.

>>41017533
On a tanker truck

>>41017563
I meant, not let them know they're working for an occult engine. A lot of very specific tasks can be accomplished with a classified ad and a wire transfer.

>>41017591
Pretty sure a super vampire could toss a tanker truck.

>>41017654
And realize that something was up.

>>41017654
And that's why you have the C4 to get the tanker to explode

>>41017690
>explosives
>against a blood elemental

>>41017654
>Pretty sure a super vampire could toss a tanker truck.
Nope.

Strength 17 lets you throw about 7000lbs around

So, question. I've been writing a hunter compact to submit to Onyx Path, but compacts don't have many mechanics to contribute to the ideal half that it would be... should I make it a conspiracy with an Endowment?

>>41017724
Compacts occasionally have special abilities, just put it in the form of a merit with a Prerequisite of belonging to the compact.

>>41017724
Compacts offer mechanical benefits in the form of status merits and in-universe support. But if you want this compact to be able to make cool shit available to the players that isn't "backup" you'd make them a conspiracy, yes.

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>>41017707
>Not using explosives on everything

>>41017783
Yes, because they're inefficient against many supernatural threats.

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>>41017724
Status. Also maybe add some mechanics, like how the Rite of Prometheus works, or give them a single Endowment like in Compacts and Conspiracies.

>>41017833
Name one.

>>41017878
>Name one.
Antediluvians, idigam, any spirit that doesn't have a bane of explosives.

>>41017878
2e werewolves. 2e vampires. mages of any kind.

>>41017918
Manifested spirits still take damage from physical attacks.

>>41017978
2e Werewolves and ESPECIALLY 2e Vampires take damage from explosives. Mages can prepare ahead of time but no Mage is going to be able to stop an explosion as it happens, and Spell Slots are supposedly more limited.

The only thing explosives won't kill is a Mask.. or is it Brute?

>>41018017
>Manifested spirits still take damage from physical attacks.
They take much less. Idigam aren't spirits.

>>41017918
>Antediluvians
Ravnos I assume had 10 fortitude and nukes did mess him up

>>41015655
>They can also summon earthquakes and volcanoes.
I'm pretty sure Archmages can do that too, to be fair

>>41018017
>2e Werewolves and ESPECIALLY 2e Vampires take damage from explosives.
They do take damage from explosives. But they don't take much. Vampires instantly move it to bashing because they don't care if their body get hurt. Werewolves turn that aggravated to lethal and can heal on a whim.
>Mages can prepare ahead of time but no Mage is going to be able to stop an explosion as it happens
Sure they can, that's what reflexive spells are for.

>>41018064
Along with sunlight.

But what world do you live in where using multiple nuclear weapons is in any way an efficient method to taking down a single target?

Am I the only one who doesn't like the gnostic/paranoid schizophrenic-style of horror that stuff like the God-Machine tries to be? If so, what sorts of horror does wodg like?

>>41018161
>I'm pretty sure Archmages can do that too, to be fair
And then they explode into sparkles

>>41018055
Aren't they?

>>41018164
>Vampires instantly move it to bashing because they don't care if their body get hurt
Actually enough damage causes it to be lethal or even aggravated.

We're talking like 30 damage here. Chances are most things are going to die.

>>41016148
But the chances are of a 6 fort vamps would be able to tank >>41018164
>But what world do you live in where using multiple nuclear weapons is in any way an efficient method to taking down a single target?
What would you have used then?

>>41018199
>We're talking like 30 damage here. Chances are most things are going to die.
c4 doesn't cause 30 damage.

>>40993611
>>40993422
>>40993153
Please successfully kill all of them and report back.

>>41018200
>What would you have used then?
A plane ticket out of India.

>>41018017
>>41018199
Supernaturals have extrasensory powers by default, so when the explosives are triggered, more often than not, they've already disarmed them or gotten out of the way.

Cocky vampires can use Celerity to avoid attacks (not only reflexively, but it even spells it out "It may be movement, avoiding harm by shifting out of reach.") and move out of the area of effects.

Werewolves can tank damage and then heal it quickly, especially by burning essence. Not too familiar with their gifts, but there's at least one (Purity facet of Gift of Evasion) that allows them to mimic Celerity.

Mages have more powers and ways around mundane bullshit to bother counting.

Explosives are the most powerful weapons in most modern games, but they're hardly the go-to against supernatural threats.

If Zapathustra didn't get ganked by the Technocracy, the Masquerade may have fallen and changelings would get a second chance.

>>41018345
Zapathasura

>>41018247
>Not too familiar with their gifts, but there's at least one (Purity facet of Gift of Evasion) that allows them to mimic Celerity.
I think I'd prefer the Glory one.

The guy with the bomb just goes to the wrong address.

>>41018429
Also works if they're using a cellphone. Contest the delivery of the trigger and someone gets a nonsense txt.

>>41018234
Working on it. (The Ventru actually thinks he found out which "NPC" is my character and went and killed some mage. Should be interesting in the future.)

>>41018228
Not if you don't use enough of it.

>>41018247
What extrasensory power says "there's a bomb going off"? You'd need a shit load of celerity to get out of your house or a building while a bomb is actively going off.

There's a lot Supernaturals can do if they're prepared, or know it's coming, but once shit hits the fan and an explosion actually goes off, there's very little they can do to stop it.

>>41018592
You're overestimating the power and range of explosives.

>>41018592
>What extrasensory power says "there's a bomb going off"?
The scent of explosives or the lingering sweat of the one installing them or the CPU clock of a phone idling, fresh out of a cheap plastic box.
>You'd need a shit load of celerity to get out of your house or a building while a bomb is actively going off.
Nah, just spend 2 vitae to interrupt and use the speed multiplier. You double your speed at minimum and even if you can't get all the way out of your house, you can jump out of a window or run to a spot that's more likely to survive the collapse, like a fridge or bathtub.
Explosives aren't that powerful. The movies overplay them and war zones overdo them. With what seems like overkill by RAW you can take down a house, but that's if you aim for the structural weak points and it's not going to atomize anyone.

>once shit hits the fan and an explosion actually goes off, there's very little they can do
If it ever gets there, and they don't have a hard counter, that's their fault.
Vampires can soak it and burn vitae to survive any excess. (If they don't have the power to fuse with the floor or the ground)
Werewolves can soak it and burn essense to survive any excess. (if they don't have the power to cross the gauntlet on a whim)
Unless the starting arcana rules change substantially, any mage will have either 3 flavours of armor (which have been confirmed to be unique to the arcanum in 2e) or at least 1 arcana at 3 dots, which is sufficient to survive damn near anything. But mages are the exception because they are that much more likely to find out about the explosives early and not need to worry about them at all.

Now if you customize the explosives for your target, THEN you can claim to have them dead to rights. Fill the area with sensory noise and add their banes so it acts as a claymore for werewolves and vampires.
Mages are trickier, but they're addicted to mysteries. After all, curiosity killed the cat [/spoiler]satisfaction brought it back

>>41018919
>The scent of explosives or the lingering sweat of the one installing them or the CPU clock of a phone idling, fresh out of a cheap plastic box.
Do even Werewolves get THAT level of always on passive heightened sense? Don't you have to be paying attention to use that kind of thing?

Honestly I feel like a well hidden white phosphorous explosive is going to take care of any supernatural.

>>41018657
You're underestimating the amount a Hunter would use.

>>41009063
>>41009175
Daemons without divinity are utterly pointless and nonsensical. You seriously might as well call them Robots in Disguise.

>>41019071
>You're underestimating the amount a Hunter would use.
Most hunters don't use explosives, don't even get them.

>Do even Werewolves get THAT level of always on passive heightened sense? Don't you have to be paying attention to use that kind of thing?
You only have to pay attention to look across the Gauntlet.

>>41019097
Demons were without divinity before and after Christianity.

Also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(computing)

>>41019105
"Explosives" is the second go-to answer for Hunters after "hit it with a car".

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>>41019097
Your lack of culture and christianity tainted tunnel vision of the occult is no one's problem but your own.

Demons are not exclusive to Christianity, or religions. nWoD moved away from oWoD's YHWE centric theme. If you want to move back, there's a translation guide and a whole oWoD game. Meanwhile, we'll be enjoying out deceptecons-by-any-other-name demons.

>>41019303
Anyone got a link to the translation guide? I have no credits for this cyberpunk world we live in.

>>41019289
No, that's the go-to of anons on /tg/ who haven't played hunter.

Fighting new werewolves must be so frustrating, even past the healing. Their gifts are weird.

>>41019359
I've run Hunter. None of the players in my group would probably use explosives, and I wouldn't throw anything at them that required explosives. I'm just saying if you absolutely need someone dead, that's how best to go about it, if you can acquire them.

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Hunter is all about the tone. Some people like the action movie feeling with lots of explosions and too-perfect planning by operators. I always preferred the frightened, bumbling everyman trying to make a difference. Then again, I'm a ForeverST so YMMV player-wise.

>>41019556
Aye I'll have to check that film out, I feel like even though this is my first time running a game I'll be the ST forever. Starting with hunter, my idea so far involves them being on the road. Would you have any ideas as to a good jumping off point? Thank you.

>>41019793
They were caught, in town, doing something bad. Part of the hunt, but most of the hunt is illegal. The sheriff, however, gave them a pass. Maybe he knows about the supernatural, maybe he has some past with them, maybe he was once a hunter, whatever. But he told them he'd handle it, they just had to pack up and get out of town.

>>41019793
The road trip is a time-honored film and literary motif. Their destination isn't so important (they could just be nomads or on the run), but their reason needs to be persistent. They need a compelling reason to continue the journey. If it were me I'd either have them chasing something or being chased by something.

To get more Hunter specific, what tier are we working with? If they're 2 or 3 then their motivations will be guided and informed by their C&Cs.

>>41019899
I'm keeping it at cell level for now, or street level depending on terms.

>>41019839
Right on.

>>41019918
Tier 1 then. You have a lot more freedom then, because they're really just normal people who know too much. They have to exist in a world now that will think they're crazy and dangerous. That alone could keep them moving, and alienate them from the world at large (think Supernatural).

Maybe they were on a hunt and tried to be too clever with explosions or fire, but along with the vampire they killed a lot of people in a building adjacent? Now they're the targets of a statewide manhunt, spurred on the vampire's former associates. Might be a bit too dark.

Could just be they're following a pattern of a certain kind of attack that they were all victims of, the same creature that started their own individual Vigils and brought them together, but along the way they end up finding all sorts of other shit that's just as nasty.

>>41020029
Those are fantastic ideas, thank you very much.

Yeah I wanted to keep it at tier 1 to have the freedom to do whatever comes to mind.

>>41003368
Just get 1e and avoid the jr hill.

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>>41020029
>(think Supernatural)

>>41020297
Or better yet, play OWoD.

What level of Forces would a mage need to create a mini-nuke Holy Hand Grenade? And how hard would it piss off the Guardians if he actually used it? Assuming he didn't kill himself using it because the blast radius is bigger than the throwing range

>>41020464
Forces 5 for nukes

>>41020464
>What level of Forces would a Mage need to create a pocket nuke.
Forces 5, if you have weapons-grade plutonium or uranium on hand.

Archmastery if you're simply trying to conjure one.

The difference is that in the former, you 'simply' need to create a neutron bombardment which destabilizes your fissile material. This is the principle behind how Fatman and Little Boy worked.

In the case of the latter, you're going to be attempting to split neutrons off of the atoms you have at hand, all of which are likely relatively stable.

>>41020744
>>41020464
Forces 5 for radiation and EMP. Prime 4 for imbuing into an item rather than casting right then (3 if you don't mind a time limit on it).

If you just want something horrendously powerful without the semantics of physics, grab a flashlight, enchant it to put out more light than the sun (••• Light Mastery) and then use Transform Energy (Forces 4) to convert that light into Heat or Fire.

For reference, this is potency 5, so scale accordingly
Light - Stadium lights
Sound - Industrial
Heat - Books burn (451)
Electricity - Main line
Fire - Conflagration
(This rote can't do sunlight, but Forces 5 can create it wholewavelength)

>>41020865
Forces 5 would be sufficient for the effect. Matter 5 would be for actually creating the material to make a physical nuke.

>>41017533

The kind of "hunter" that inhabits the WoDg is tainted by /tg/'s HFA and 40k mentality and thinks a lone hunter can take a group of methuselahs with c4 and duct tape

They're not clever individuals

>>41021001
Can't you just open a portal to space and let the sunlight through that using Space?

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>>41021249
You could technically, but you'd have to have a meaningful degree of sympathy with that particular region of space and you'd be rolling at massive penalties and the disbelief would dissolve the spell very quickly. Also you'd have the problem of pressure and other solar radiation. You could...

>>41021314
>>41021249
How about opening a portal to someplace on earth that's very sunny at the moment, like Australia?

>>41021337
Do you have sympathy for Australia? Like you, right at this moment?

>>41021314
Take some of your blood and a telescope. Use the telescope to look at a region in space. Use Space to open a portal in space. Toss your blood through. You now have sympathy too a region in space.

Or you do what>>41021337 suggests.

>>41021385
Not since they banned guns.

>>41021385
If I were a mage who was planning to do the sunlight portal, I could get sympathy for it pretty easily.

>>41021401
minmaxing mastigos, i love it.

>>41021385
My ex lives there. Is that enough?

>>41021401
>Alien mages find your blood
>Teleport you to their ship
>Wipe your sympathetic connections to Earth so you can't port back
>Brutally anal probe you until you gain a permanent limp, then sell you to an alien zoo
>Are you a bad enough mage to find your way back to Earth?
>Or would you rather question why alien space mages exist until a Veronian Megaslaughter Beast eats you?

>>41021590
There is no such thing as aliens anon. Spirits, Cryptids, and Gentry yes, but no aliens.

>>41021656
>idigams

I guess the fall under the Spirit category, but honestly, they're alien enough to count imo.

>>41021674
They're not spirits.

And they do summon alien spirits.

There's no rule against aliens.

>>41021656
If they're not aliens, what just teleported you onto a spaceship and ruined your bunghole?

>>41021715
A banisher from LA with a movie set?

>>41021674
They are alien spirits. They do not count as aliens, as we always knew there were spirits in space.

Though this really begs the question as to why mages haven't explored space more. It seems like it would be simple for them to teleport to the other planets at the least, and I would expect at least some to teleport to other stars.

>>41021745
Because the Supernal isn't reachable beyond earth's atmosphere.

>>41021656
The Gentry kind of are aliens. They're not from this world, have strange powers, and kidnap people. What more do you want?

>>41021715
True Fey.

>>41021745
Because there's nothing to do in spess, and also nothing to breathe. Also, traveling to, say, Luna's Shadow Realm, for example, sounds like a really goddamn bad idea to me. Never mind the idigam, imagine what the sheer population density of Lunes and the general overriding mindset of Luna, the Mad Goddess and quite possibly mother of half to all the bad shapeshifting shit in the entire World of Darkness would do to things.

>>41022074
She also pretty much singlehandedly keeps every other planet spirit from fucking up Earth.

>>41022130
Just because Luna happens to be yandere for Gaia and/or her children does not necessarily mean that you should knock on her door, anon.

Bit late on the explosions discussion, but I once had one of my nMage antagonists try to kill my PCs by teleporting a 50-gallon drum of burning ammonium nitrate right into their faces. ((they were Adepts, so the baddies weren't taking chances))

One mage saw the bomb start to explode and traveled back in time a few seconds to warn everyone about it.

One mage used Forces to immediately stop all combustion in the room before the thing could explode.

The next mage transmuted the now-extinguished chemicals into sand.

And the last teleported the inert drum of sand into the middle of a lake.

Mages have a lot of tools.

>>41022130
Wait, why can't Gaia take care of herself?

>>41022348
Probably had her spirit stolen by mages or something.

>>41022348
She's too busy moaning like a dirty whore as Mankind rapes her for being so appealing and life-bearing and bountiful. She was totally asking for it, and humans delivered, and now she's loving it, the dirty slutty planet.

>>41022385
I don't think even a powerful Archmage would want to tangle with Gaia. She's a Rank 9 spirit who probably has an insanely broad Influence or Influences.

>>41022445
I thought Gaia was Rank 8 along with Luna and Helios? Which book is that in anyway?

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>>41022445
That's if Gaia exists as a spirit. No one's seen it.
Warning, established spirit ranks seem to have changed with 2e.

>>41022582
>That's if Gaia exists as a spirit. No one's seen it.
Well, I'd assume you can't see Gaia's spirit for the same reason you can't see New York State from Times Square.

>>41022869
Spirits aren't their reflection. Gaia would, like most high ranking spirits, have a shadow realm of her own full of minions and lower ranking spirits.
One no mage has ever seen.

>>41022918
And I was implying the Shadow as we know it is, in fact, Gaia's Shadow Realm full of her servants and lower ranking spirits, and we don't realize that because it's so fucking huge.

>>41022951
But there's a shit-ton of low ranking earth spirits, and mountain spirits, and so on and so forth and they don't acknowledge a higher being either.

>>41023002
If you think you can get spirits to give you a straight, simple, honest answer about anything beyond their own immediate self-interest, you're one of the Mad.

>>41023036
Right, except you can easily force a straight, simple and honest answer out of anything but a spirit of lies.

There's nothing at all that points to the existence of Gaia as a spirit, except for the theories that it might exist.

>>41022493
Wait, shouldn't the spirit of a star be magnitudes more powerful than the spirit of what by comparison is a dust mote?

>>41023243
Nah. Spirits are weird, but the rule of thumb is that they get more powerful the more people think of them. People think of the earth a lot more than they do of the sun.

>>41017878
>>41017918
Also, Garou and Rokea that have the Gift that allows you to be immune to one entire facet of technology (guns, photography, explosions, etc.) permanently. Or that can simply cause sophisticated technological devices to not work, or to brick entirely.

>>41023243
Plus if Gaia is real than she probably has access to a lot of essence simply because most of the things on Earth would fall under her Influences or be close enough.