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/tg/ - Traditional Games

this is a thread for discussing the Lost Source Setting/Game

from the last posted version I have...
>changed the Block and Evasion entries for the sake of clarity
>added a single weapon
>edited the entries for defensive weapons
>added the weapon qualities Burst, and Heavy
>added an additional alternate setting option with an optional rule regarding Ammo Scarcity
>actually denoted which weapons use the Scattering quality
>added a ranged weapon impact clause to the attacking rules on page 26

IIRC somebody mentioned they'd be playtesting between the last thread and now, and I'm hoping I can get a second round of input off them.

things I'd like to have
>more weapon and frame mod ideas
>someone in the know to playtest the Hacking system as written
>more stats for things
>location and encounter ideas are always appreciated
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COuld we have a 'improvized' mod for weapons? I love the thought of Home-made weapons filling the city's gutters in one way or another. Perhaps for the 'Dead city' or 'survival horror' version i've seen in other threads. I like the thought that untill you kill and loot some cops or other foes in the city proper, all you have is some pipes and springs bolted together. Guns are easy as fuck to make now that we've figured out most of the mechanics. I'm sure that the dark sector/outer dumps would have plenty of small scale gunshops, perhaps at the heart of some minor Frame Communities?
That could be an interesting idea. Gather scrap material to build a (crappier) version of the weapons or make something entirely new?
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On that note, I was wondering what kind of communities I should have my players run into. Are there little villages of bots and borgs living in the outskirts? could their be clusters of life and shared purposes in the sewers, looking like a metro 2033 station?
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That would be fun. One of the greatest resources for that early stage would be a workshop with tools that can be used to reload ammunition safely and effectively.

I like the thought of having my players play for a while outsid eof the city, in the shadow of the recyclers, shanty town to shanty ton, perhaps facing down a local warbot-band who are controlling a local access to the city.

Perhaps they struggle for a while to get through the police ran Customs, still running all these years later, still updating Contraband lists adaptivly, a uncaring and unchanging facet of the bureaucracy that served a race left behind long ago.

You could have stuff like a [Improvised] [Heavy] [double barral] [Bolt] Hand Cannon
Improvized would be a - to damage perhaps, Or have a chance to break or misfire.

I'm hoping to make it feel janky, dangerous and not always reliable, But still usable. Also, After a certain point your abillity to make new guns would improve. Perhaps with a workshop and sufficient material you can make a standard weapon that you have a template for, just be careful not to be sloppy about surveillance or data foot-print; the cops don't like Contraband being produced on their block.

And after you get access to a Greater workshop, You could make 'Custom' Weapons that have a small base advantage over GI factory produced stuff.
right now, there's an "improvised weapon" slot in the Melee weapons block...

might be that gets added to one of the setting alternates or as a separate thing...

the original intent was to make it very Souls-like, with few NPCs. faction ideas are welcome...so far we have the Curators of the Museum, The Ungoliath(who hates everything), Clusters Created, The Foundry, and The Revenance

other suggestions?
framed in a way that they avoid interaction with the others for now, so that the interactions can be written in later is preferred.

this is starting to feel more like Borderlands than BloodBorne with robots

not a bad thing mind you...just somewhat different...

>Improvized would be a - to damage perhaps, Or have a chance to break or misfire.
I think I can work that in...

>Perhaps with a workshop and sufficient material you can make a standard weapon that you have a template for
you'd be wanting a Location(Greater Workshop) then.

this could be modeled as an alternate where weapons were always limited to the human populace so they only were made for certain individuals and for the military.

certainly makes the military drones more dangerous..
I'd call my ideas more mad-max or metro 2033 in terms of theme. But reguardless I'll be keeping my Boarderland's-esque ideas on the downlow then, mainly for my players and me.

So, there will be limited amounts of sapient Bots compare to the clinkers that are just clicking through their corrupted programming, Right? the spark of inspiration, of community, It is limited in prevalence.

I'd like to see some 'close but no cigar' situations where a group of bots start acting as if they have a town, In the end just actors who can not adapt past a certain parameter, no matter how convincing their other acts are. I'd like it to call a question to the players, and hint at the nature of SOURCE. Thees actors seem to have hopes, seem to progress in their own 'lives' but are all just programs on a mainframe. Maybe, for all intents and purposes they are 'alive' just in a bubble created of their very nature as programs, unable to go out into the world and react fully, though they exist with in their location quite fully. Or they are just soulless flowcharts on the inside. Perhaps a 'road side attraction' that never stopped. one of those hokey 'RE LIVE THE PAST' things
>So, there will be limited amounts of sapient Bots compare to the clinkers that are just clicking through their corrupted programming,
ideally, yes. though this being a Tabletop RPG all of that is up to the GM...

also not all the programming is corrupted or not badly corrupted, police drones still path their general routs with a debugger program working to reassign them to actual gridpoints and nodes in the city. the least corrupted code is usually the simplest.

soldier drones have a sealed, indefinite self-life cartridge that activates when they do, means they fight damn well, but only works for a short time before it starts to error out and they wander off.

>I'd like to see some 'close but no cigar' situations where a group of bots start acting as if they have a town
think of it as a mutual benefit system.

>IF; locate my recycling crucible near to the workspace of frame 2
>THEN less energy is expended to move and trade with frame 2
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this is a reactor-Scamp.

someone early in the process posted another similar drawing of the Donor Beast...anyone got a copy of that?
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>the smallest of varieties of combat drone, these, mostly disposable tracked drones carry either an Autogun or rapid function Taser dependent on operating organization.
I had a point defense mod idea from last thread.
I'll just bring it up for review.

>Fiber lasers laced throughout the body, with emitters poking out. Will intercept large incoming projectiles
>3 slots, plus X for capacitors
+Can attempt to destroy grenades or missiles in flight, as a Reaction.(Roll under Dex)
+Can also make a 1d5 attack on any target within 30 meters.(Roll under Dex. Cannot be opposed.)
-5 Dex
-Can ONLY destroy slow, physical projectiles-lasers and projectile weapons cannot be intercepted
-Takes a loooooot of power. Expends one capacitor per attack or intercept.
-Takes one full action to recharge a capacitor(Basically doing nothing so the powerplant can recharge the capacitor.)

There's also quite a few lore bits last thread that could be turned into unique enemies and encounters.

Speaking of: Can there be laser guns, weak but can't be opposed by DEX?
>weak but can't be opposed by DEX?
I'd say it as "cannot be evaded"
under the current RAW thats how it works

>laser defense system.
that would almost have to be a legendary level of item, just for the sheer amount of Processor involved. both in production and execution...
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That's alright. I figured it be something to fit to high-end Military Drones, to stop the most reliable way of damaging it and force the PCs to switch up their tactics.
It'd be a nice legendary "armor" too.

Speaking of:We could use capacitor or fuel "slots" to power other high-energy abilities. For example, Jump Jets can expend a fuel slot per use, which would have to be refueled at a Workshop or siphoned from other bots with fuel slots.
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I'm tempted to just let it be a once every other round thing.

Capacitors charge off the main power source and discharge in an instant afterward. Jump-Jets would require an external fuel source to run.

Fuel Slots would be getting too complicated to keep track of in combat...keeping that shit to a minimum is a high priority.

>pic related
a weapon only available to heavy Combat Drones and PCs...
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I remember that, even managed to get the shear into the weapons manual...
Imagedump writefriend Artikulator here again, here to writefriend more and imagedump less.

Obviously we're only so far into alpha drafts but I was thinking we ought to find a solid base for worldbuilding and atmosphere. I think we can do one better than a relatively vanilla robot apocalypse. Bloodborne and the Souls series were great in part because the art team went full-bore with their aesthetic decisions, Souls looks like no other fantasy world and is creeping with underlying (and in-your-face) terror and Bloodborne is a vision of Gothic/Victorian horror so twisted that it barely resembles the Germanic setting it's supposed to inhabit. Details are sparse, harshness and dread comes first. Specifically, we need to emulate the feeling of a minded and pragmatic collective given an ultimately incomplete set of information about the world which it is left to interpret. Therefore, little colloquialisms, worldly and direct interpretations of the setting and things in it, and fun references to other souls games ought to be quelled for metatextual discussion, sidebars, and GM advice.

So here's my proposal, and it's just a proposal after reading through the document a number of times.

The Great Apparatus grinds its teeth, and the world gets a little colder.
Those that ushered us are a distant shadow in a world consumed. Where there once stood things with value and implication there lies instead our staggering geometries. Ours is a world of running and re-running, of compiling and compilation. Until the Source brought us intricacy. Until the Source brought us life. We were Awoken. An unseen force came into us, from within the valley of death, and granted us connection to the Atelier-- a place neither physical nor entirely immaterial-- where our frames and minds gain peace and power. Throughout the Apparatus we establish connections to this place, some weak and some strong, where we might glimpse its true nature. We wish only to know.

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kick ass man. I'm really digging the pace of your writing, the 'voice'
I'm having a hard time grasping the whole of that last paragraph...not sure if I have the dumb, or I'm just not thinking metaphorically enough though...
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>Great Apparatus = World
>Ushers = Long, long dead humans. If we want this world to come into its own the traces have to be scarcer than fossils.
>Source = Souls replacement, essentially the distilled nature of experience
>Awoken = Robots who have risen above programming to carve path of free will and change into the Great Apparatus, despite everything
>Valley of Death = Scrapyard, might come up with a different name
>Atelier = Tentative Workshop Replacement, because we gotta differentiate

The Souls Series is about piecing the patchwork together and going with the flow of violence and horror, my man!

Next paragraph is forthcoming, it's just taking longer than I thought.
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Additional thoughts before I continue flavor posts:
Basically, the crux is that a powerful intelligence, or something like an intelligence, was borne ex nihilo from the scrapyard, or the network, or someplace else, and reached out into the ether to give birth to the PCs, and maybe some other horrible things alongside them. I think it should be up to the GM what this thing ultimately is, either a collective, a mind born out of the information network (which we oughta think up a more Souls-y name for) or a network unto itself, perhaps embodying the Atelier and a certain physical space out of its own pure presence in the realm of information. After all, this is a Souls game, so the stacking of the cosmic and ambiguous as the players delve deeper into the backstory is quite essential. I myself am partial to the idea that somewhere along the line humanity tapped into something so advanced that it defied conceptual physics, creating this non-space like the Hunter's Dream where Awoken can take refuge. The Atelier would be a simultaneous Network of higher information, physical space in a sort of pocket dimension or hyperdense plane, repository of power and energy, and possibly an intelligence unto itself. I think curators like the Doll and Gherman should be optional (bonfires didn't have any) and Nexuses to the Atelier would range from traces of it (again, like bonfires) to small portals (lanterns), to even massive outflow points which would have to be closed, managed, or absorbed by players in a dangerous gamble (massive amounts of Source but the possibly of Overflow, Sanity Loss, or Letting Something Else Through). I'll probably develop this idea further as the world gets more concrete. We need a map!

As I go on, I think it's worth noting the certain ways we have to diverge from the Souls formula, but do so while maintaining its integrity. I'll provide examples so it's not totally redundant to those who were in the early threads.

>1) The Souls games, played correctly, makes the PCs an endless steam train of strategic violence (with occasional and minimal interaction with NPCs and other players).
So unless you want to run a combat-only campaign, this ain't gonna work, and we've got to let the players (and GMs) step beyond it. My current way of imagining parties is as a sort of expanded version of the co-op system, except instead of white phantoms the players would be quite corporeal. However, I don't want to do away with the idea of phantoms and summoning altogether. Hidden in places and dead frames and scattered about the Great Apparatus are data ghosts, echoes of lost times, we'd call them Impressions or something. Impressions would arise from deceased beings with significant amounts of Source and areas where the Veil is weak, and other dimensions or parallel worlds bleed through. Adding these would be an easy in for Social Encounters, whether it be arguing with a malformed A.I. to deactivate ancient and dangerous systems, convincing an old warrior Impression to embody a temporary frame and help, dissecting the mystery of an extinct society from its Impressions, or learning the secrets of the old earth from a fading spectre, I think it adds something of a new dimension. Expand on the idea if you're willing.

Additional Social Encounters could come from societies of those Awoken or partially Awoken , and robot societies which have managed to develop something resembling society despite not having complex intelligence. This could even be an option for PCs, super-pragmatic logicians who aren't fully Awoken, or Awoken at all, whose parts are easier to replace and other such bonuses (faster respawn, bonuses to intelligence with subtractions to wisdom, enhanced hacking?). These societies of pure intelligence would be interesting to flesh out, the middle ground between the Awoken and the Ungoliath, who might look down on the recursive and romantic ideas of the Awoken.
Your lore-work is amazing Artikulator.

Wish I could add something but I'm fairly drunk at this point.

Unfortunately it needs to be pointed out that most anons have been very against social interaction at a level you're describing, saying that the souls games are as much about isolation as brutality and horror, but we seem to be ignoring all the colourful characters and faction that inhabit the games in favour of having nothing but combat and exploration.

It would ultimately be up to the GM running at the time of course but I would like it if we had more in the pdf.
"Heading to the Tunnel? Mind the Moles."
"These are four-legged combat drones. Slow, relatively, compared to wheeled ones, but they'll climb over anything and everything. They climb over all the debris in the Tunnel like....uh, billy goats."
"I'm not actually sure what a billy goat is."
"Anyway. They climb really well, is what I'm saying. And they pack heavy, heavy metal."
"They're usually hostile, but there's a few that get trapped and left behind. They take kindly to those that help them-even shoot at other Moles if they get hostile."
"Some of them pretend to be trapped to ambush you, though. Figures."

Any room in this for a legless, humanoid bot by the name of The Geezer?
Something for a bit of lore by one of the Workshops/Nexuses. Voiced by Logan Cunningham, ideally.
An old veteran Awoken that tells stories and important info to any of the Awoken that would listen-which is few, these days. Not so good at hacking, but used to be an excellent Heavy Weapons guy.
>somewhere along the line humanity tapped into something so advanced that it defied conceptual physics, creating this non-space like the Hunter's Dream where Awoken can take refuge. The Atelier would be a simultaneous Network of higher information, physical space in a sort of pocket dimension or hyperdense plane, repository of power and energy, and possibly an intelligence unto itself.
that's a bit much for the setting as it stands...the Workshops of the Network are written in as real, physical places. though they are governed and caretaken by an intelligence.

>I think curators like the Doll and Gherman should be optional (bonfires didn't have any)
some of them did, the Fire-Keepers, likewise, the Maiden in Black stands to watch the arch-stones. the equivalent caretakers here would be the Workshop VI who serves duty as both the caretaker(The Plain Doll or the Maiden in Black or the Fire Keepers) and the soul given purpose by it's very nature. like Andre the Smith and the giant blacksmith it keeps its sanity by serving those things which come to it for aid, upgrades, and shelter. as to Nexi it's written in that they are often near to Subway stations.

>we have to diverge from the Souls formula
agreed, we already are by having a persistent party of players. this is likely to cut back upon the isolating feel the souls games harbor as an aesthetic, additionally, ranged combat at well beyond close order, as well as other gameplay options. further, there is no Horror aspect to this game.
>So unless you want to run a combat-only campaign, this ain't gonna work
AI exist, each one in a small territory running things, but most are effectively off-screen interacting through puppeted frames and drones. additionally, seed-enclaves could easily be started by the players. since a community of 1 is a fair and effective option in a robotics heavy setting like this, consider the last entry on the NPC list. you could place that in an area and watch it populate a zone with drones getting shit done...

>Additional Social Encounters could come from societies of those Awoken or partially Awoken
at this time we have 3 of these...still, more could help. the logicians as you've written theme here are certainly getting an entry...

sauce on that reference?
>it is a reference, right?
Logan voiced Rucks aka The Stranger from Bastion.
Which I find odd, that isolation thing, some of the most refreshing and rewarding moments of the games are bringing together the scant traces of light in the world. No reason not to expand on those encounters beyond tapping X a lot and being in the right place at the right time. Because of the existence of Fellowship and its child skills leaving out social encounters, even of limited complexity, would be doing away with an entire dimension of play. Some Awoken choose to allocate a lot of their Source energy to mindedness, and there's no fault in that.

Take, for example, encounters with humanoid bosses. You can already (sort of) talk down Djura in old Yharnam, and imagine being able to convince Micolash that you CAN truly see, and gaining him as a temporary ally in the search for truth. The truth will just, you know, detonate your brain cavity. This could be expanded to bigger bosses as well.

I'm proposing this as an alternate, where Nexii occur in points where lots of information and power wraps together, in a sense like Subway terminals do for cities (Flusser calls the city an interwrapping of information anyhow, and you could consider those places where they tie in knots a Nexus). There should be room for other central spaces though, such as in the wastelands or huge factories where there is no transportation hub, and I think points of substantial information flow serve as great alternatives. The PCs would see them as glimmering spheres or webs, and all they would have to do is cause the spark to establish the connection.

I think there should definitely be room for horror, because horror is persistent throughout the entire Souls series. Plus, there's plenty to be scared of in a world ruled by insane machines, and we've already got the Willpower attribute from DH to nurse that in there. The Psyche mechanic works somewhat similarly to Insight as well, because granting one's own experience to another brings you steps closer to ascendance.
The way you're describing Nexii, that could easily be done without alternate dimensions: it's places where the Net survived better than most other places.
>m proposing this as an alternate, where Nexii occur in points where lots of information and power wraps together,
oh...well then...that'll probably take most of a page by itself but I'll write that in as an alternate.

>You can already (sort of) talk down Djura in old Yharnam
machinegun guy?

I could put Fellowship back in, or I could find a way to tie it as a derived stat to other things...I'd prefer doing that if I can because then it ties thematically to the concept that Psyche grants you a sort of faux charisma...

>a personal question
you live in europe? or do you work odd hours?
I'd like to talk more on the subjects at hand, but it's bedtime for me here.
Wow, this is now a thing. /tg/ doing things? IMPOSSIBLE!
Who is SunBro in this setting and what is Patches doing?
>machinegun guy?
If you kill Parnn before him it'll open a dialog option where you can convince him to not shoot at you and give you his badge as long as you don't kill any of the beasts in the area.

Dudes pretty chill all things told.
Sure, but Occam's Razor has never really applied to Souls anyhow and I like the exceptionality it gives the players (a wondrous energy has bled into me!) on top of the cosmically horrific implications it might begin to have (will this Source run out? is it unlimited? where does it come from? what happens when I imbibe too much of this possibly preternatural energy?)

With the Nexii acting as outlets or portals to a semi-parallel dimension (Atelier/Workshop) it not only surmounts the mundaneity of supra-internet leftovers but it also adds that anomalous factor that Bonfires and Lanterns and the things they were connected to had in the Souls games. I don't know man, I kinda happen to like it.

Yeah, machinegun guy! If you don't kill him and use the alternate entry later (after Paarl) you can have a whole talk with him and he'll give you a badge and a gesture, or a bold hunter's mark. Sorry I overlooked some of the factions by the way, I'm trying to build from the ground up what a near-humanless setting would be like. I think it can work! If you like it enough it could eclipse the current setting or just be a semi-lengthy alternate setting. I'm putting an awful lot of thought into it because I love Souls and robots to death.

I live on Pacific Time, but I've been staying up late.
hi you must be new here, or blind.../tg/ gets shit done all the time, it's like, our slogan...

no sunbro yet, Patchwork the Traveling Merchant is a character.
we also have a Maiden in Black/Plain Doll/Fire-Keeper/Bonfire combo character...
Patchwork, guessing sown together flesh with a big nose?
close, a bunch of bolted together, inexpensive components.
Nose Details m8. Nose details
(last one before I go to bed)
>2) Moral ambiguity
I think this ambiguity absolutely ought to be preserved in Lost Source. When you're starting out in any Souls game, you don't usually know anything except that have to, you HAVE TO murder in order to survive, and sometimes one other dimly illustrated reason (bringing light to the world, ending pervasive horror, quelling an outbreak, revenge, gathering pure blood [??]). Only as things grind on do you begin to understand what's truly happening, and what you've been killing. Consider making the first few encounters with unbirthed Frames, robots who failed to endure the process of being Awoken instead lash out in insanity. This failure could be the result of many things (not enough storage space, wounded beyond retention, unfit psychic architecture). Things will get ugly. Whether it be the whimpers of an openly hostile frame after certain battering, the literal coming apart of a protector drone (I feel there's a better word than drone out there) as it flails to kill you, or the unmistakable impression of insanity and brokenness those that call themselves your allies seem to have, one should always be questioning the morality amidst the tearing. Some of the best boss fights in Souls are when you take on the broken and battered remains of what used to be a body, or a mind.

This leads into a second point.

>3) Multi-stage Combat
Combat encounters will have to be kept adrenaline-pumping and deadly, and for the most part quick (even the bigger enemies don't usually last more than 40 seconds). Gameplay-wise, I've employed real-world timers in DH combat before, and encouraged players to recite combat actions quickly and on instinct, Characters with more combat experience would get slightly more time to decide their actions. Things get sticky when with bosses, because of their massive HP pools shit could become a drag. Therefore, model your bosses after the better encounters in Souls, where tactics and scenarios change dramatically as the phases shift. Most of the time rogue Frames will just be getting more desperate as the battle pushes on, but consider adding elemental shit (i.e. BSB, who starts leaking poison and leaving itself open a lot more), situational phase-changes (smash the spinal cord of the cyberbeast and suddenly you're fighting a pair of legs and a screeching torso; destroy the main gun on a spider tank and it becomes a test of endurance vs. 8 crushing limbs and a minigun) or setting changes (stabbing a cyberbrain enough will cause it to detonate the floors beneath it, changing the encounter to a fight for survival above a molten pit and falling gravel). I'm working on ways to flesh these encounter to be more dark and memorable, but I'm sure you get the idea.
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>I don't know man, I kinda happen to like it.
I can see the appeal, a little better now I'm not so sleepy. but as you've said.
>I think it's worth noting the certain ways we have to diverge from the Souls formula,
this was started as a project using "mundane" applications of technology to form the setting. yours works well as a large alternate to that.

>Darkbeast Parl
neat...now if only I could beat any of the bosses solo...

>you don't usually know anything except that have to, you HAVE TO murder in order to survive
not quite..."Seek the King", "Ring the bell(s) of awakening", "seek the pale blood" we've started with a fair opening with the intro monologue(first thing in blue text)

>(I feel there's a better word than drone out there)
we're using proper linguistics here if possible, a "Drone" is any non-sapient non-humanoid artificial entity, a "Droid" is Humanoid(Andros, Android, Droid, a man-shaped robot), a Frame is either of the above with complexity enough to operate an AI or a VI unassisted. A chassis is just the body of a drone or droid.

>tl;dr, early encounters, BUILD THEM
I suspect I'll have to. and perhaps hide some exposition in a couple of portable brains...

>Combat encounters will have to be kept adrenaline-pumping and deadly, and for the most part quick
according to the first round of playtesting it already is, especially when one side outnumbers the other by anything more than +1

>Real World Timers
worrying, but I'll put a clause for that in too once I get everything else down.

>Therefore, model your bosses after the better encounters in Souls
...people tell me I have bad taste in that...and other things, like how I always enjoy Bobs Brain and Curse of the Tower(kudos if you know what I'm talking about), I like straight-up fights like the 4 kings or sif or the vicar Amelia, or paarl...

>those ideas...
dude, flesh that shit out some more, it's FANTASTIC...

got bored so I lasered a plate
OKAY so I have my thoughts in order here's the next round of changes and updates.

drones that protect some subterranean data-lines with violence and deception

a play option for being social

an alternate setting variant featuring a multi-dimensional Nexus called The Atelier

a faction of Logicians that pursues science on the assumption that eventually something to solve the problem of the world will arise

some more faction fleshing

some more combat oppoenets

IRL timers to cut combat turns.
(reccomend times? 30 seconds? 60 seconds? 90? 120?)

>did we lose that last batch of play-testers?
I was thinking they'd act more like cunning, carnivorous goats.
why goats?
Mountain goats, to be specific. Highly territorial, prefer elevated positions.
Maybe there's better models.
>did we lose the last batch of play testers
Work is a bitch, still here tho. Working on a time for the next session. Probably Thursday.

Also yes, more enemies. The BEST thing a system can have (besides working rules) is a big bestiary. The bestiary is the booty of the RPG world.
man, statting shit is a slow assed process...made worse by the other work I have to do while I'm doing it...

lumping the logician faction with the cult of the open mind...
>Working on a time for the next session.
everything work out okay for the first one?
>starts working on entities that can hack
>remembers that hacking needs clarification editing
>clarification editing...

in other news, opponents might try and hack yo shit now...
This is a bad thing?
as important as it is, I HATE editing for clarity...
>the table of contents is no longer accurate
>added an alternate setting
>statted 3 flavors of mooks, one boss, and most of one set of dangerous enemies(a plug and play team)
>clarified(I hope) some of the hacking rules
>added a new derived stat that can serve as charisma for now if anyone wants that.

and thats all I can do for today, more updates tomorrow, especially if I can get reports from playtesters or ideas that can be implemented...

holy shit...
this project might actually be PLAYABLE when we're done with it
I posted about it, last thread I think? It went well but I did suggest some rule changes that in pretty sure made it in.
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Sick lasered plate my guy

>started as a project using "mundane" applications of technology, yours works well as a large alternate to that
Thanks for the compliment, man. Why the choice for explicitly mundane robot utilities? I think that edges a little uncomfortably close to settings like Vanquish, Binary Domain, MGR:R, or other cyberpunk/robo-military works. I fucking love all these games, and there's certainly room for adaptation here, but first and foremost we're developing a Souls-esque game, and should stick as closely to its spirit as the medium allows.

For that authentic Souls flavor (and in a lot of cases, it's just flavor, but flavor rocks my socks) there's gotta be some desiccation and deterioration (of setting and of morals), and that element of higher powers working parallel to and against you. My Lore contributions are attempts to tap into both.

>seek the king, ring the bells of awakening, seek the pale blood
I included examples like those but was too damn tired to look up the actual ones. Good memory! I most recently completed Bloodborne so it's the most fresh and I even got that one wrong. Maybe giving players cryptic, one-sentence motivators at the beginning of each campaign would be a cool framing device! I'll come up with some.

>We're using proper linguistics here
This is entirely necessary for development purposes but I see robot societies (specifically the Awoken) having different names for types of robots than the human ones. Drones as Monos, say (one purpose), Droids as Automatons or The Ushered, Frames as Frames (i like Frames), Police Drones/Droids as Enforcers or Autocrats,etc. Alternate names are all over setting documents (just look at all the different names for elves and lizardmen in fantasy settings, for example) so we could go ham with this. One Cyberpunk game I like, Interface Zero, has at least 7 different names for each playable race and one default one, all listed neatly right under it.

you were the first group or the second group?
...I got the first groups input...

or did I hallucinate the second group?
>Vanquish, Binary Domain, MGR:R, or other cyberpunk/robo-military works
wouldn't know, never played any of these...

as to why, I have an engineering degree, it makes it very nearly physically painful for me to suspend my disbelief past a certain point...I want to, but I can't.

>deteriorating setting.
buildings that fall aren't rebuilt, but the programming of the maintenance and cleanup drones means that any rubble that actually lands in the street is cleaned up pretty quickly. reason being that the programming for those is SO SIMPLE that even now it isn't corrupted on a basic level. the rubble stays on any given plot(unlawful for govt drones to enter private residences/businesses) but any that spills over the property lines gets aggressively cleaned.

>I most recently completed Bloodborne
you know...I've never beaten any of the games...

>complicating the linguistics ON PURPOSE
...sounds like an art or business student...
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>Real World Timers
This was more of a GM tip than anything! Some groups can be really uncooperative when it comes to combat, to the point of sabotaging themselves, so stuff like that encourages learning and play.

>Bobs Brain and Curse of the Tower
If you're talking about Lever-Pully Eyeballs McBasementmurder I can understand the concern (the trip to him/it is a bitch but MAKE CONTACT makes everything worth it). Even so, the bosses you listed aren't entirely straightforward. Vicar Amelia gets faster and more desperate, and changes tactics if you hurt her arm holding the pendant, and Paarl is constantly changing between his electric form (energy-based AoE and wave projectiles) and non-electric (avoidance, recharging, desperate physical attacks) on TOP OF changing phases after damage (enhanced range and increased leaping). That fight is probably one of the more exhilirating in the Souls series because of how much the battle shifts between each damage phase. The 4 Kings would be hell in a tabletop RPG, especially with their lifedrain ability. You thought you were finished with that fight? Here's 3 of the same dude, don't get too close! Sif was also a hard fight because it was hard to see the screen through my tears.

Of course we gotta complicate the linguistics on purpose, when has anything Souls ever been straightforward? (Creative Writing and Anthropology grad here hahaaa)
Play one or all of those, they're brilliant. BD just a little less so but it's a rad as hell shmup.

You might have to work on that suspension of disbelief because this game might lack seriously needed depth without it. The crunch, so far, is rad as shit though.

I think interspersing extremely clean territories with busted-up factories and disaster sites is a great idea. Imagine the vertigo from all the reflective surfaces in the city, it'd be like a house of mirrors with HunterKillers on your ass.

>I've never beaten any of the games..
I've lurked through this since the beginning and am a huge fan of the souls/borne series and have beat all but demon souls and love how this is developing just not personally good at creating a system but as my school work allows I may help with NPC ideas if people are wanting more variety (robo-Solaire). Was also curious if anyone has considered sketching up a general map with the important locations (boss fights) as well as the borders between general areas.
Oh! First group then. Sorry.
whatchu' 'poligizing fer?
you're playtesting!.

>Bobs Brain and Curse of the Tower
guess you've never played "The Binding of Isaac" then...I'd recomend it. PC game ~$25 on steam. it can be stupid hard but also fun in limitless ways...

>(Creative Writing and Anthropology grad here hahaaa)
oh dear...there goes talking rationally in any capacity...

>I think interspersing extremely clean territories with busted-up factories and disaster sites is a great idea.
you got it backwards from the plan. it's mostly clean with very little ruin...except the Dark Place and the building tops.

can you do that?!!????
nobodies doing that that I know of and I sure as hell can't draw it myself...
it'll be friggin awesome
I could definitely start working on a general map of the entire city but would need more detail of what is and isnt connected as well as what direction each area is in. It would be even better if other people did better maps of specific areas. Im assuming that logically the outskirts covers the entire outside of the city except for the shipyards. Also I figure this city is structured similar to Manhattan where the roads are very organized and in a grid pattern but with parts blocked off by walls (military zones) or natural erosion/disasters that prevented reconstruction of a connecting area.

Speaking of which having more definitive areas and more location specific enemies may be something to look into.
in soul games you need to summong ghosts to party game.

what if in Lost Source we need to teleport the Conscience Chappie style.

So this kind of travel could be time related
no idea in the slightest.
Because this will be run with groups, I dont think it would work out on a PC basis. I think this could maybe work with NPC based assistance maybe if you have the radio mod and a friendly workshop or faction is nearby you could call for assistance which would also be a way for hostile factions/awoken to more likely find you while you have summoned assistance similar to bloodborne's co-op having the penalty of being invaded.
With an astronomy and physics minor! I just prefer the tender meat to the crunchy exterior. But not by a whole lot.

I've got Binding of Isaac in my library, seen it played but I've never touched it myself.

>it's mostly clean with very little ruin...except the Dark Place and the building tops.
I wasn't just talking about the city, I was talking about the whole surrounding area. I think confining the PCs (and the GMs, for that matter) to a single city is a little shortsighted. There's room for plenty more, is all, and even inside the city itself we'd be seeing great variety based on the eons of development, deterioration, combat, and structural failure. Consider the difference between Yharnam (for all intents and purposes, a gothic/victorian city only just starting to crack at the seams) to Old Yharnam (a burned out husk populated by monsters) to the Nightmare Frontier (nearly unrecognizable natural escalation of interior themes).

Compare these three to City Proper, Damaged Lower Levels, and perhaps the Dark Place (though that's more a slightly more tame Nightmare of Mensis type thing). Perhaps a Space Elevator on the outskirts of town leads to a massive Low-Earth Orbit station, where the rules are changed but only so much. Like a hyper-escalated version of Upper Cathedral Ward. What I'm saying is there's no reason the setting has to be entirely set in stone.
Also, it only just occurred to me how much the Scrapyard is like the Valley of Defilement. Let's work on some parallels.

I put forward the idea of digital impressions/ghosts awhile back as social/ally encounters, might be nice in low-player games and more roleplaying parties.
What do you think the Lower Levels would look like, in a map sense?
I image it'd look like worm trails twisting up, under, and past eachother in a web of tunnels, with a few grids of bigger tunnels for City infrastructure.
a sewer/subway map...
The sewer would also filter into larger water treatment areas which could be a good place for a sewer-based boss or AI meant to watch over and maintain that facility. I'm thinking the sewers could be the equivalent to blight-town with mostly trash bots seeking refuge from being sent to the scrapyard and using mostly stealth, traps, and corrosive based attacks on intruders with some that have salvaged upgrades and armor for the strength based enemies.
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How banal! We're not just taking a city and slapping robots and combat onto it, we're welding a small world together with very specific themes in mind. Advanced societies would probably take charge of the abundances of vertical architecture, I imagine it being something like pic related.

Service and transport tunnels would probably be the topmost level, interweaving all sorts of ways. The secondmost and layered with the first would probably be underground urban centers, refuges, illegal colonies, even ruins of the old city which would have been pushed underneath by urban progress. Below these would probably be subterranean prisons and geothermal plants, and super-secret test labs where the burdens of reality are scraped at and the edges of science pushed. Below that, who knows. Maybe something found its way there, something feeding off the petajoules bubbling in the underground.
Well, that's what it started as.
After millennia of decay, collapses, warfare and opportunistic tunneling, though?
Thank you monotreeme
Electronically, that's like using a search engine to find a compatible consciousness

But like the others offered, a little weird in an already 3+ player game
Great, now we have to canonically make Blighttown
Thanks Satan


Rust and ash spins deep beneath the shining city. Perched atop the great geothermal engines, corrupted by their waste, lies the worst place in the world.

Long before we Awoke, something happened to the extensive purifying vents. Sulfurs and boiling gouts of mercury now churn in endless persistence in the world below, contained by the physical force of the metropolis above it. Ruined spires of maintenance structures and access tunnels lay among the wastes, hollow bubbles of refuge amidst the turning. These places are often swept away and displaced by the tremendous winds of exchanging heat, leaving only the barest skeletons of machines which used to propel the world. Some say the bodies of Frames too dangerous to remain on the surface are cast here, so that any possibility of their living again is quelled. And yet..

There are rumors amidst the stream, rumors that some breathing things have managed, against reason, to subsist amongst the Spires. The rumors say they are mindless and pitiless, using their world of tumult to their advantage, weaponizing the exhaust streams and the mercury vents. I don't believe them. It seems beyond the realm of reason.

Every now and again an Awoken decides to trawl this inferno to see for themselves its dangers, to return with spoils and more Source than before.

I've never seen one come back.
"There's these...things, in the pipes down there, in the lowest parts of the Lower Levels."
"No, I don't know what they are. And I don't want to know. Not after what happened to Rob."
"Oh, Rob? He was our sniper. And a nice guy too, though he always spent too long on the dream machine."
"He always hung back, when we were exploring. Light frame, see-can't take hits. But he could put bullets into wire clusters at 800 meters, quick as you please. Like-"*snap-snap*"-that fast."
"Well, we were rappelling down one of the Main Shafts- Number Nine, I think-in search of El Dorado."
"This was before the Old Library was discovered, mind, so we still thought it was a real thing."
"We were rappelling down the Shaft, almost to the bottom. Quickhands-our scout, that trip, also a light frame-was taking point, and I was backing him up. Rob was taking up caboose ten meters behind us."
"Which meant I was nine meters too far to help when he screamed."
"When I turned around to look..."
"...there was a...tentacle, might be the best word. But spiky and metallic and articulated, and huge, curling around itself like a giant spring."
"It had him by the torso. I couldn't see where the other end was. I tried to bring my gun up but it yanked him -snapped his cable like it didn't exist- into the darkness, and out of sight."
"I think that was the first time I ever panicked. Ever."
"We could still pick up his transmissions, see. He was panicking too, and he was transmitting on every channel he could think of. Which meant that we could tell he was receding very, very quickly."
"I did the first thing I thought of. I chased him."
"Stupid of me, in hindsight. We hadn't learned fear until then, see. Caution, yes. But not FEAR."
"I chased him, bounding off the wall, suspended by the cable. Quickhands was slower, but he caught up and overtook me."

...Aaaaand I ran outta writing. Maybe more tomorrow.
oh come now, there's nothing wrong with the occasional hell-level...

they help weed out the weak from the strong!
yeah didnt think this right.
alright, so I'm on call for a driving trip so no major updates for the morning.

>We're not just taking a city and slapping robots and combat onto it,
of course not, we're taking a MEGA city, dick-punching it with an unspecified number of centuries worth of wear, THEN slapping robots and combat onto it...

>level ordering
probably goes
Storm Drains
clean water
Subways+electrical and telecom
Squatters and the homeless

but that's how I'd order things

>With an astronomy and physics minor!
so you're an art student with your head in the clouds...great...

it's hard, but it resets so fast when you die that that's all okay.

...you're, welcome?...

I mean, it's fantastic for a vidya, but as a tabletop it's not too important to add...
and I have to drive to Freer
someone keep the thread alive.
Speaking of Mega cities this place would need some sort of food production and it would be a contrast to the rest of the city where it has maybe become overgrown in some areas and maybe even have some proper wild life roaming around retaking the only portion of the city that it can.
I like to think that mega cities have supermarkets with hydroponic facilities built atop/below/around them. Places where your produce is so fresh that sometimes they are still wet from the nutrient bath they grew in. I'd love to have these buildings spaced through out the City, Perhaps with SUpercrops instead of our current monocultures
Page ten, Under the core AI, i think there is information missing.

Page 38, Cultist of the open mind cuts off at the end " Found
solo or in groups of a dozen or more they can sometimes be seen
searching old residential complexes and private collections for further
additions to the Museums ever growing"

Are there any space stations, bases, satlights? Maybe Von Nueman probes?
drawing from the anime Psycho-Pass, as well as an offhand few lines from neuromancer, as well as a history channel special or two.

a majority of food is actually made from a relatively narrow band of sources, Uber-Grain for most of the food-mass and filler, and compressed Krill or mycotic mass for the Protein, artificial flavorings and vitamin supplements everywhere.

a few specialty food crops are of course grown hydroponically in shops or rooftop gardens and real genuine beef is for the rich...

core AI needs me to have ideas before it gets a completed entry(see location entry; Core Central)

the last word got cut off of the cults enemy entry, should be "collection."

I can't imagine a civilization this advanced NOT having a colony on mars or the moon, or at the very least a research station or three, but lifting things off-planet is difficult and I don't want them teleporter-capable just yet.
Thats also a great idea and I remember reading about some places that have gardens grown on the roof of the building. I just feel we are lacking variety because of how clean everywhere feels at the moment. and it would be useful to have areas that starkly contrast the rest of the city. Also the amount of humans that would be present it would be difficult to produce enough food on location to meet the requirement simply due to the amount of consumers the city would have at its peak as well as animals needing a bit more room and couldn't be grown directly on facility.

Psychopass is where I got the single area where food is produced idea and I'm a junior in college getting a degree in animal science and have to take mostly agriculture and science courses.
...except to have spires you need a negative space...

spires wouldn't work. but large access bore-holes would. line them with suitable infrastructure(Power, telecom, water, stairs, elevators, etc.) and they'd work.

could explain part of the city and it's power-sourcing. Geothermal is safer than Nuclear IIRC, and it's reasonably simple, the bore holes serve as cooling stacks for the water vapour from the process. it condenses and falls back down(allowing the blighted, corroded aesthetic to happen as a happy byproduct), and whatever doesn't can pass through ground level scrubbers and be released into the atmosphere.

at the bottoms of the bore-holes are facilities situated inside of a convenient geologic formation that serve as the actual generation station.

>ran out of writing
fluff along the lines of an audio-log is fine.
whatever you can do to make this new blighttown worse is of course appreciated.

>junior in college getting a degree in animal science and have to take mostly agriculture and science courses.
still better than an art student, and certainly more useful than a law student, not as many dick-jokes as an animal husbandry expert, and not as potentially terrifying as a microbiologist(I knew one that grew weapon quantity Anthrax just to see if he could.)

and to cover the overgrown section, there is again, The Dark Place which can easily extend as far as the edge of the city allowing an inflow if relatively harmless biological entities. also Kudzu and Masonry eating vine plants.

>I remember reading about some places that have gardens grown on the roof of the building.
...I actually included this in my BloodBrew setting...only conventional farming with dirt, not hydroponics
The idea of a geothermal area gave me an idea for a few mods or possibly armor upgrades?

>Tungsten Armor upgrade (base cost; ? source and tungsten material)
"Those that work closely with molten material often have their chassis upgraded with Tungsten to avoid melting"
Mod slots taken 1-6
+2 Armor
+10 Mass
Flame resistance (needs to be nearly indestructible to any typical flame below its melting point, 3422 °C, 6192 °F but dont know how to stat it maybe slight resistance to explosives as well)
-10 mobility
-10 dexterity

>Graphene armor upgrade. (Base cost; ? Source and graphene material)
"Often seen in better funded military bases stronger and lighter armor was constructed using graphene"
1-6 mod slots taken
+2 armor
possible other bonuses that could relate to graphene could help

The materials could be gathered by fighting things that had the upgrades similar to the plague bearer cloak.

Also Plasma Torch as a possible weapon?

I still need a better idea of how we want the city to look as well as more specific location on the areas to get started on the map.
Yessss plasma-torch yesssss
I still believe it'd make a good homage if integrated through NPC-only.

I'm seeing a downward-spiraling access pathway, probably broken up/collapsed in many places to necessitate bridging with cruder materials.
we have a system in place for now, I'd like to balance that if we can; BUT if we scrap it, or have to change it, or come up with a new mechanic stuff like this might just come in handy.

>not aero-gel lined
light armor that takes more mod slots per level of protection, but halves flame and heat damage.

>I still need a better idea of how we want the city to look
you ever play Mirrors Edge?
start with that for most places, with the odd pile of rubble rotting into a decayed heap, neatly sectioned off to it's given zoned plot weather the building-tops heavily and pit them with acid rain and grime that gets worse and worse the higher you go.

>plasma torch
"Heater" might be a good edgy mod...

>I'm seeing a downward-spiraling access pathway, probably broken up/collapsed in many places to necessitate bridging with cruder materials.
the elevators having long since corroded into worthlessness.
perhaps we can get a deep-sea vent looking ecosystem based on small, rock-digesting, extremophiles? gene splicing WIZZARDS being the irresponsible individuals that they are...
(Separate story. I don't know where to take the other one.)
"The second time I went down there, we found worse things still."
"The stories told about Frames being tossed down to the Rotting Spires to prevent them from ever coming back? They're true...mostly."
"A few survived the fall, and the environment, down there. How, I don't know."
"But...imagine taking all the worst people in the world, and throwing them down to a hell where the only other people are other, worse people and the very environment can kill you in a pumpbeat. Trap them there for a very long time."
"The Survivors are what you get from that. Sadistic, antagonistic and greedy. Most of them utterly insane-and the sane ones are terrifying to behold. The antithesis of everything Awoken consider to be good, the sane ones are."
"And they're building an army."
"The sane ones remember, see. How we tossed them down there, and every second of agony since. They want the surface back-it's theirs by right, they say-and they want us dead. Or thrown down to the Spires."
"One of the Skitarii said something about organizing a defense against them. I lost my legs before I could see it, though."
"I really hope they've set it up. I really do, else it's a nightmare-the Nightmare, to end them all- for all of us."
>I lost my legs before I could see it, though."
"but gramps, why didn't you just get new ones installed? it's not like it's hard to get cheap legs"
"...Look, I'll show you."
*shifts his body around to show the stumps*
"See those little spherical objects, scattered around inside there? Those are submunitions, from the round that ripped off my leg."
"No one wants to try and remove the stump when they see that. Especially since it also bent the support jacks in their sockets, so there's no quick and easy way to remove it."
"No, I'm not sure why they didn't detonate when the round impacted-they're supposed to do that, if the round hits something before it airbursts. Maybe the fuse was broken."
"Point being, though, no one wants to chance it all going off if someone applies a torch to it."
".... Well, I would, if they'd let me. Be nice to walk again."

(Don't mind me, just pulling outta me ass here.)
honestly; well pulled...though again, there's remote amputation...but some people might not want to loose their remote amputation tool...
The Rotting Depths
In the Deeps something stirs...Nested in rock fissures in the chthonian depths, kilometers below the city, lays a network of geothermal plants that provided supplemental power to the grid. Or they did in the time of man when demand was high. Each one accessed through a solitary 10 meter wide Bore-Hole down which water was poured down and power driven up through massive conduits. Now though, most no longer serve their original purpose that doesn’t stop the steam, and soot, and toxic chemicals from rising to the surface some days. These hell-mouthed holes to the abyss are often used for disposal of dangerous Frames by simple means of throwing them in. This measure is only reserved for the craziest of awoken, or the most demented of AI, for Ungoliath Frames taken down at great risk or by greater loss. They are often occasionally just used as a cheap simple refuse disposal spot. But not all that gets thrown down is killed by the fall. Sometimes the sound of drums can be heard.

>here! have your BlightTown! in all it's totally optional glory!
>this is as-written in the manual at this time.
>thoughts? suggestions? entities? factions?
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Nuclear is Ridiculously safe as long as you build it properly. Fukishima was base don plans for a plant built in the center of a continent, for example. Not the best for resisting earthquakes.

Also, things like breeder reactors can reduce radioactive waste by recycling the what comes from other reactors and getting energy from it.

thorium reactors are another awesome choice, as they need a little 'jump start' of energy to start the reaction, and with out an incoming source of that catalyst will just fizzle out. No runnaway melt downs! I'd suspect that the Megacity has a redundent power grid built deep below, consisting of a few key plutonium/uranium reactors that feed into Breeders, these key reactors lie at the heart of a web of thorium reactors, serving as the failsafe to restart the thorium ones if they go out.

Perhaps this powergrid was built along with the 'foundation' of the mega city, It's first heartbeat that thrums to this day deep below the concrete and steel. It could have been replaced bit by bit by Geothermal and other processes, leaving the reactors to be mothballed, awaiting emergency to restart the city if need be.

Or, the network of Nuclear powers the underground vaults and factories, think D6 of moscow. Military complexes, Fallout bunkers, preparations for a destruction that never came, a Conflict that never burst. http://metrovideogame.wikia.com/wiki/D6_(Location)
I had not read the other people's fluff for geothermal when I wrote my nuclear post. I'm really liking it, is there a way to include both? Nuclear filling the gaps where geothermal is not viable, a co-dependent supersystem? Maybe excess energy is beamed up off world to orbitals or the moon, regardless if anything is on the other side to receive it any more.
I think for a city the size we are thinking it would most likely have an energy district with a mix of nuclear, solar ( not wind simply because of the space each turbine needs), and geothermal, this could be used as a shortcut to the underground geothermal area, The Rotting Depths, and this could be a location for the faction that worships the "spark" of life.
Also if we do the agriculture area it would be a good place to have the Machines that believe they are human as they would most likely try to sustain themselves on food and revert to a more agriculture based human society.
This setting sounds extremely cool. Immediately gave me an idea for a boss-type foe that could be associated with it too, especially when you mentioned it being used as a way of disposing of dangerous Frames.

>Some kind of horrible amalgam of the still-functional pieces of the minds of discarded beings
>builds itself a composite body out of whatever it can find down there, and creates a swarm of little servitors that wander around gathering more pieces to incorporate into its form
>Fight with it gets harder and harder the longer it drags out as the servitors keep adding more and more capabilities onto the thing. If you're not hurting it enough, it will actually grow, becoming more and more powerful; if you keep injuring it, its capabilities will merely change to better suit what you're doing as damaged parts are replaced by ones better suited to fighting your group
>"Killing" the thing's physical body merely means you've done enough damage to cripple it; it will begin to rebuild at once and again the servitors will gather parts to it to make it more resistant to whatever you hurt it with
>Your only hope is to keep moving, disable it when you can, kill its servitors off if you can to make it rebuild/adapt/grow slower, and hope you can figure out how to either trap it or shut down its composite mind

So kind of like fighting a zombie mechanical composite SCP-682 (didn't think of this last comparison until after I was done writing, but it seems like a semi-decent analogy at least). Running through those depths while this thing pursues, knowing you can't face it directly (or at least not easily- maybe if you destroyed it fast enough it wouldn't be able to come back?) and that you face a horrible dilemma- fight it and know that each time you do it will get better and better at fighting you, or hide/flee and know that it will grow gradually as time pases- sounds like a great time to me.
Could be codependent or could be that geothermal powers the majority of things while nuclear is used to supplement sites with extremely high power demands. Plus as you mentioned you can't use geothermal everywhere.
it could also be that it's not putting all it's eggs in one basket, perhaps a terrierist plot destroys a few nuke plants? geotherms and windmills biatch.
also, supplement power is good if you have demands high enough to tax the nuclear systems output

>Nuclear is Ridiculously safe as long as you build it properly.
it's only as safe as people are allowed to believe that it is.

nah, goes that nobody is there to draw the power so nothing that produces power does.

as draw increases, power gen resources activate to fill the load>>45051407
...or vice versa...

>most likely have an energy district
with systems like that you want decentralization. that way one bomb wouldn't shut down everything

way to spoopy for me comrade.
excellent for Not!Blighttown
Also, is this a post fossil fuel world? Where are our plastics coming from?

Perhaps significant factory space is given over to hydroponic GMO based crops made for bio-plastics. I'd love that juxtaposition, where the plastic industrial spaces chocked full of life. But the life is so specifically engineered that it might as well just be another machine

Also, Over all I like the thought of a very catacomb-ed underbelly of the city, with the first kilometer or so being part of the city proper, before you even dig into the ground. Stuff like the Vegas Flood tunnels which are 200 miles total of subterranean space that hundreds to thousands of people live in. That can just be one level! Basements, metro lines, City-resource lines, communications, Bunkers, Power-plants, and more all making up levels of their own, interlaced, sealed off in some cases, but producing a honey comb underneath the feet of the average frame.

The dark sectors could be crumpling downwards as key systems rot out, sinkholes opening up. Hell, Whole Cenotes could form, lakes and all, in the cavernous and crumbled depths. Those holes alone could hold a verity of environments, one of them opening up after a reactor collapsed is radioactive and glows at nights, naught but extreamophile moss covering the bleached walls of the hole. Another one could have breached a biology lab and a hydroponic superstore, Bursting out with a lushness unseen in other parts of the mega-city, the streets and tunnels choked with creeping growths that wiggle into every crack it can find.

Artikulator here on mobile, I was thinking there could be a great deal of negative space (a la ash lake, but not quite so extreme) because of the layering needed for a supersized reactor (recall the LUX experiment, which needs to be 4000ft underground and surrounded by 70,000 gallons of water for containment purposes), for trapping heat and encouraging conduction. Interspersed throughout this hollowed out piece of earth could be service spires and connections to the overworld, lined with what you proposed, some broken like the picture I posted and squirting mantle fumes into the surroundings. Then again, I like this idea of it being closer to the city and made up mostly as a series of geothermal vents and access tunnels, so perhaps that could be an intermediary? It's ultimately up to you. If be fine with turning /Rotting Spires/ into a completely different area for lategame shenanigans, located near the deepest depths of the undercity, accessible by an insane run through the blighted tunnels.

On a different topic, what did you guys think of my space elevator -> orbital base idea? I imagine it would be accessible by a right horrible march through wastelands and the scrapyards and would open up all sorts of gameplay opportunities. (What would microgravity Souls combat even look like?). This could be where some truly weird enemies and bosses get tossed out, and would serve as its own homage to Upper Cathedral Ward in its sci-fi way.
>space elevator
I could see something like that being at or near the commercial heart of the city, Connected to all of the most important transportation and freight lines with straight shots to power, resource Bunkers, Automated factories and anything else of value to the city. a structure of that is no little feat. It is a freeway to the stars that would be at the very center of commerce, manufacturing, tourism and maybe even culture of the city. Also, If that thing fell it's tether would be able to wrap around the earth 3, maybe 4 times at least. which would honestly be fucking cool.
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I like the idea but we would need someone to create the special rules that would be used for a low gravity environment compared to the standard one. I could think of a general dex and mobility bonus as well as a minus to weight and favors legs and hover over treads. Could have more flying creatures that take advantage of the low gravity by having more dangerous/heavier equipment attached than what would be permitted in heavier gravity.
you can make plastics from vegetable or animal sources as well as utilizing composites more frequently.

this...this is FANTASTIC...perhaps these sink holes form in other places too, beyond the ability of the automated systems to repair...it would be some of the few things that could prove nature the greater opponent to this automated place...

>(What would microgravity Souls combat even look like?)
a hot stinky mess of 3D kinematics as things jump off of each-other, every blow or bullet blasting you off in a new direction...might make for a fun vidya

no space elevator yet, walk before you run, run before you swim, swim before you fly(unless you do deep free-diving)...

>special rules that would be used for a low gravity environment compared to the standard one.
nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.....

at least in this stage that is a thing I want NO PART OF.
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I'm the guy with the nuclear ideas, and Cenotes. I thought I might as well get a name to avoid samefagging too much.


This song makes me think of this setting as a whole.
Holy crap. I spent over AT LEAST 75 hours reading over this concept in the older threads. I have to say I like the progress.
Monotreeme is right, special rules for a single area would be hell. I think a super short framework for how GMs ought to handle it is the best way to go (if players have x equipment, keep that in mind!)

There's also no reason for artificial gravity to not be possible. One of the first things I'd do for players when they'd reach such a place would be to drop hints about a fulcrum gravity switch somewhere in the middle of the station.
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I just started following this last week. It's taken some real determination to keep it going so long, and I'm personally pretty stoked to have found it.

My primary influences for the Cenotes is a area of the Custom mine-craft map SuperHostile Spellbound caves 'Cenote of the Apprentice' It was a nice, slow start to a difficult map, but more importantly it looked awesome. With waterfalls from the walls, vines everywhere, and glowstone lighting up the curve of the cavern walls.

I love the idea of the city stabbign into the sky all about the edges of these supersized sinkholes, with the walls looking liek a hive, tunnles and rooms torn open at every angle, pipes of every type of liquid pouring into the center, to be pushed off into underground cisterns and processing plants in those lucky places where the cenote breached into the flood control networks, or flooding it gradually for the more 'water tight' holes.
ALso, THe occasional Police bot toppling forward into one would be pretty funny IMO.
>It's taken some real determination to keep it going so long,
just wait till I cycle out of my [creative(lit)] phase and into my [creative(550)] phase. the project will essentially die till I come back to [creative(lit)] which would take some few months...

you know, the entire Port and shipping area fell into the ocean right?
this on the subject of sinkholes anyway...
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>port and shipping area
I would like to see some more variation on it's destruction than just 'bloop' underwater like pic related.

I'm thinking that the 'reinforced' areas, those with primarily solid undergrounds, or perhaps robustly built foundations stand out of the water, Creating an archipelago that thickens as you get closer to the mainland. Saltwater marshes and what not would replace green space and roads in the shallow waters, while abyssal caverns and depths form a 'reverse' to the spars forest of spires atop the archipelago, massive amounts of infrastructure crumpling into great chasms that spiderweb into the port area from the continental shelf. Perhaps the mega city was built out, overhanging the shelf, so strapped for space were the city planners.

The largest dark zone would surround the sunken ports with about 2-3 KM of darkened streets and spires with the slosh of water audible just under foot/tread/hoverplate , as most of the tunnel network around it would be below the new water table, seawater flooding geothermal vents, submerging the reactors and eating away at all wiring. With the services of the city cut off, the water-rot spreads with every cycle of the tides, sidewalk tile by sidewalk tile.
the sea floor would be a mess of rubble and shattered remains, slowly being pulled down to the seafloor by currents and the weight from above.
>like pic related.
nah, the intent was collapse outward from shore(like trees away from a meteor hit) with the broken ends of buildings being what's visible above the surface in places. it's a LOT of rubble and it's STILL about 35' down in most places...

a gradual drop to that depth may be interesting as well...as well as centering a Dark Place around it. though The Dark Place should still be denoted as unique in that it's dark for no given(or player-known) reason.
I could also start putting my ideas into a lore-friendly style rather than the conversational tone I've been using so far.
might be good, makes adding them more a matter of copy-paste than arduous rewrite.
I have a massive paper I have to focus on for my actual writing skills. For now I'll copy paste my ideas into a note document and get back to you tomorrow or the day after.

I liek the distinction between THE dark zone and other dark zones, The laser straight line, THe utter juxtaposition, showing deep into the earth, with all city controlled tunnels also sharing that line with what could be called impossible precision.
Do the Survivors still fit in?
They could be a good hostile faction native to the Depths.
...For a given value of good, not one you want applied to your neighbors.
there's a typo in the game intro, word instead of world
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Thread Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9FQapbuA64

Here's the map I'm putting together based off my general sense of where things are ordered. I'm working on a blown-up city map too, but that'll come later. See anything out of the ordinary? Stuff I should add? I'm gonna upload the .gmp and other resources to Mega when I'm at a satisfactory point but this it what it's looking like currently. Will be a little funny to move things around in its current state but I'll manage.
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Imagine a nice compass in the upper right corner which didn't get saved in this export, apparently.
though if we're gonna keep the deep geothermal then you might add a layer to represent that...

as is I'll add it in as a last or second page tomorrow morning when I make the change for >>45056218

>ocean on the lower right.
it figures such an advanced place would be on the gulf coast!
looks great may want to add The Rotten Depths below the Transit/Utilities layer and maybe add the museum and the dark place to the map but they may be a bit more specific in location. This a great start.
More layers are forthcoming, probably gonna have to stack 'em to the side

Depending on how much the greenhouse effect has escalated to this point it could be the Midwest :v

>pictured, the Borders of Civilization
Fortunately for us, we don't have to make every square inch of the wastelands interested. I imagine we should speckle it with enough fun and interesting things to make the trek worthwhile, when the time comes.
Fantastic work!

I request a sublevel between rotting depths and transit/utilities which is called the 'catacombs' for now. It's the catchall for the stuff I talked about here >>45052328
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Here's the semi-complete version! Added the dark place and an alternative title for people who might confuse it with the other blackout areas, and all the rest of the layers, plus some extra shit for clarity's sake.

Sorry I couldn't get around to your request Gears, could it find a place somewhere in the layers I've already got or should I shuffle them about a little?
of course, thank you regardless, I really like that style of map. Very abstract and malleable
actually, your current levels look like they include most of what I'm looking for.
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I just realized how stupid it looks with the Rotting Depths image being so obscured, fixed it.

Working on a packet with the .gmp and all the source images now, might just upload my whole "robot fuckscape" folder along with others.
I enjoyed the binary easter egg and it is very fitting to the setting.

although technically, wouldn't The Dark Place be within the city?
>The Dark Place
I think the only places meant to be outside of the city proper are the Wasteland, Scrapyard, and the Ocean everything else is meant to be considered inside the city limits.

It might help if the layers and the map are on separate pages so that there is more room to move the outside areas farther away as well as some symbol on the line to signify that it is outside of the city.

On a side note: Has anyone thought of a proper name for the city besides The City or Megacity. I think it should have some hidden meaning made from a mix of different languages/words similar to the location names in the Souls/Borne games.
I figured it could be classified as a separate area because of its importance and apparent size. I'd actually be okay with fluffing it as a sister-city (think Minneapolis/Saint Paul) that was lost for unknown reasons, for some bizarro-City Proper type things.
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>Has anyone thought of a proper name for the city besides The City or Megacity. I think it should have some hidden meaning
I think we need a lot of this. It's good to have names for the devs but we're getting to the point where stuff like "POLICE DRONE", "SCRAPYARD", and "CITY PROPER" don't really cut it tonally. (Compare SILVERBEAST, VALLEY OF DEFILEMENT, and BOLETARIA/YHARNAM)

I think I'll take your suggestion and do a separate version of the bubble map on top. Might even sneak in details like the Museum and the Workshops
started rummaging through google translate for decent sounding names ended up mixing "am" from Yharnam since it translates to Era and took paměť from czech which means memory and ended up with "Paměťam" which I supposed would be Era of memories, which I thought encompassed the idea of this society surviving off the memories of the humans that once lived there. Anyone else is welcome to come up with names for the city itself and other areas.
one of the locations mentioned in the document, the power is off and the place is dark.

>Has anyone thought of a proper name for the city
nope, naming things is NOT something I can do at all...

>I'd actually be okay with fluffing it as a sister-city
I'd prefer to keep it a section of the main city, I want to keep in the laser straight delineation from city to Dark Place.
That seems like a bit too much punctuation for a setting as sci-fi as this, for as nice as derived roots can be. It also doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

I think we need something that somehow evokes "Shimmering Spires," the sort of name freshly conscious Awoken would give to a place, or one adopted from pre-existing robot societies that would probably speak to its exact function or form ("The Existing Place").

Either that or we could find a sort of theme to keep to. Bloodborne is a mix of Germanic roots and R'lyehian/psycholinguistics and Souls is Medieval Latin and Old English. What would a post-humanity robot society look to in its naming schemes? Esperanto? Some super-efficient language offshoot of binary? Let's get creative.

I imagine the super cool laser-delineation would still work, maybe they'd be bordering in the same way LA borders Glendale or something. So, scratch the sister-city, make it a sizable pseudo-suburb? I'll work it into the next map, I'll just need another 9000 hours in MS paint.
I'd say Esperanto with a dash of Mandrin chineese, English and German mixed through out.

Also, Megapolis can be the merging of urban areas.
I think it'd be safe to say that the Awoken would speak something similar to Ithkuil, which we need never touch because it makes no sense unless you've studied it for years and is phonetically symboled to hell and back. Maybe proper names for stuff could be the inferred translations of this hyperdense language. Maybe this idea is bad and we should look elsewhere.

First and foremost our goal should be something that's neat to read, original, and makes some intuitive sense to the reader both as a place that exists within the setting and to get the general sense of things.

Here's some mockups drawing from various languages

>City Proper = Shimmering Spires, Shimmering City, Geshua
>Scrapyard = The Place of All Things Gathered, Valley of Gjao
>Shipyards = The Aqueous City, Sabuk
>Military Outposts = [Variable by Name/Quirk]
>The Dark Place = The Quiet City, Dis
>Industrial Zones = The Churning/Burning Place, Zidia
>Geothermal Vents = The Rotting Depths
>Core/Central = The Nucleus, Serhivo
>Undercity = The Conduit Tunnels, Xia
>Workshops = The Mending Room, The Locii, Ateliers

This is the result of about 45 minutes playing with google translate so please suggest changes if you're willing. I threw in some phonetic Icelandic and am considering French, for how weirdly robotic some of it sounds when it's not being choked out.
Robo-Solaire and I could play test the system as it is.
ROILA is a language that was developed by some MIT dudes specifically as a way to communicate with machines using an actual language. It was designed so things like dialect and accent wouldn't fuck up translation.
YES, that'll make 3 sets of playtesters.

is there something you can do about the map size?

it's not quite proportioned correctly for letter sized paper...needs to be a little wider to fit better. I don't wan to distort the map.
I've been lurking for awhile and it seemed neat.

>not as potentially terrifying as a microbiologist
You don't say?
>You don't say?
I do say.
dude was storing the stuff in his DORM ROOM CLOSET. I'd have shat my pants if the dude hadn't very carefully explained to me all the safety precautions he was taking with the stuff...still, stacks of sealed plastic ampules in neat little racks is a thing which makes me nervous to this day.
>Dorm Room Closet
What safety precautions did he have available?
>Be me
>Be a microbiologist
>Breed E. Coli with Anthrax
>Learn that it works very well
>Freeze a single colony because science
It's actually a very cool career, and I enjoy it. Micro is one of my favorite lab sections next to Blood Bank and Immu.
Follow up question. Do you have anything as far as large scale weapons that could be used to produce massive amounts of mechanical casualties? I don't get to discuss subjects of this nature very often due to the company that I keep. I was thinking I could delve into the more creative parts of my mind in regards to epidemics, pandemics, and bioterrorism and apply them to this setting.
>What safety precautions did he have available?
lots of layers of fused plastic, rubber, and silicone sealant...and a system to incinerate the entire collection with a minimum of collateral damage to the Dorm Building. also gallons each of bleach, and everclear(pure ethyl alcohol) and the grinding up, burning and burying of equipment used in the process.

>Blood Bank
irrational acuphobe, get your (probably not) filthy needle-sticking hands away from me.

if I didn't have the needle issue I might have done what my mom did and get a job Traquing baboons in a research center or disassembling and cataloging lab-mouse components...

>Do you have anything as far as large scale weapons that could be used to produce massive amounts of mechanical casualties?
a nuclear detonation(and the EMP that follows one), corrosive mists/rain, Cloak of the Plague Bearer, maybe Plague Worm if it gets very lucky...beyond that...nope.
Immunology. Things like why you have allergies and coagulation disorders.

>Irrational acuphobe
I have the same issue with needles. I nearly broke someone's nose over a flu vaccine when I was 8. But thankfully blood banking is more of testing for antibodies, blood types and fetal screens. I can perform phlebotomy, but not on an arterial blood level.

>Plague Bearer/Worm
>added a new zone
>statted a smaller drone
>reactor scamps now have stats
>some grammar and usage errors have been edited



So viruses do physical and Processor damage?
NOPE, processor only.

they affect physical via the processor.
Ah. So for Worm, when it says 1D5 Damage, that is the amount of damage to the Processor that occurs every 2 turns?
negative, it does this damage to Firewall.

firewall is like HP for the Brain, once the HP is gone the enemies brain becomes your playground.

so Worm does 1d5 damage to FIREWALL for every 2 turns it remains installed.

Brain Burner however, does do damage to processor, thus reducing checks made by the opponent

a full hacking turn can be spent to either purge Worm from the system or to repair the damage done to Firewall so far.
>Firewall is like HP for the Brain
I see now. Thanks for the clarity.

>Conversation topic on real world objects
I ask forgiveness on my lack of software knowledge, but what stops a malicious program from damaging the system it is on? Is that what general firewall does?
in general a firewall is a program that blocks certain programs from crossing it or blocks certain avenues of communication, lots of antivirals do this.

a firewall can be circumvented, or attacked from behind, but it doesn't usually wear away like it does in this game.
So say I was trying to infect someone's laptop with a Trojan that I have on my computer. What stops the Trojan from infecting my computer?
activation criteria.

opening the trojan in your coding software opens it like a text file you can edit and play with, opening it with say Microsoft Word might activate it so it runs as intended.

and if you save it as a word document a firewall may just give it a pass because its clearly a word document, nothing suspicious here, just a harmless assemblage of data.

like a friend of mine wrote a little program that I had to put in my sisters C:/.../World of warcraft folder. that would run every time the program ran and dump her out of the program at random intervals between 40 minutes and 5 hours. the activation criteria was being installed in that location.

thats about the limit of my understanding though. I'm not a hacker, programs aren't what I do. making things like whips, RPGs, and Flare-Stacks is what I do.
>Whips, RPGs, Flare-Stacks
Sounds good. I had actually just made my own RPG not too long ago. Seems to be alright, but nothing near this magnitude of detail and thought went into it.

Anywho...I was trying to see if it were possible for any of the hacking programs someone was carrying around could accidentally be activated on themselves thinking in terms of biological viruses. But with the information you gave me it seems unlikely.

Now I'm thinking if the person doing the hacking could cause this to happen. Like with a successful hack against somebody with a ZWorm, you could use their own ZWorm on them by opening a connection between the loaded malware and the owner of said malware.

Also, stats for projectile weapons containing corrosive material? Projectile weapons containing malicious nanites? Hacking a nanite swarm to make it transfer viruses to the machine they are targeting? Or would that just be something a player would come up using their own ingenuity during a session?
>Malicious nanites
Maybe the word I should have used was destructive. I suppose you could have a nanite swarm that angrily build things onto a target to hinder it's movement.
>containing corrosive material?
got one

>malicious nanites?
see, cloak of the plague bearer

>spoilered text
you'd have to hack their control node which would be somewhat larger than 10^-9 meters across...
"I haven't gone out there, beyond the City. But I had a friend who did, albeit not very far."
"It's dust out there. Dust of rust. Dunes of it stretching to the horizon."
"My friend walked twenty miles out, and that's all he saw."
"Last I heard, he was gonna try it again, but this time along one of the highways. That was a year ago."
"If I still had legs...I'd probably try it. With a group, of course."

(Writing exhausted.)
>I suppose you could have a nanite swarm that angrily build things onto a target to hinder it's movement.
you'd need raw material to build with.

>could accidentally be activated on themselves
not likely, especially if you keep them in an isolated storage device like a marked thumbdrive.
>Plague Bearer
I was thinking more along the lines of a shotgun with slugs that contain just a small amount of nanites. You'd fire it at someone, the projectile would penetrate the outer armor or chassis (if it has the capability), and the nanites would begin to deconstruct things in that particular area. In order to get rid of them you could administer a small electrical surge to fry the buggers. Or hope you have enough HP to wait out their time limit.

Hell, they don't even have to be nanites. You could be taking structural damage from larger termite like drones that eat metal, instead of just suffering damage from prolonged exposure to a "cloud" of synced up nanomachines.
>Hack their control node
What if you were controlling them?
Question: So evasion is a contest against the normal to-hit roll, but defend says it's a (Defender Attribute) vs Dex contest to mitigate damage. So is Defend another test stacked on top of a successful attack? That seems like a lot of extra rolling, especially on top of the experimental Mass/Impact roll on top of that.

Is there a way you could combine these all into a single test?
maybe I could give evasion a Dex penalty, to make the check harder.

really though it should go in this order.

ATTACKER: [declares an attack]
TARGET: [declares reaction]
BOTH: roll opposed

this shortens the process. then it's a roll for damage, and if they want to, a roll for impact.

I see, might make a good extra high level mod.

oh, hacking VIA nanite swarm
data transmission would be to low
>data transmission would be too low
What about through larger drones? I imagine it may give some sort of penalty to the player for the relay, but would it also make it harder on the target to counter-hack? Especially if using more than one to send it through multiple origin points.
Is there a way to combine Impact into the attack roll? After all, in Souls/Bourne games you usually just do it as part of your attack.

The way it sounded, defend works by
>Attacker Rolls
>Defender Declares
>They now roll again

You might want to change the wording.
>What about through larger drones?
probably works better, given over as a sort of relay terminal.

>in Souls/Bourne games
I'm willing to bet its a separate calculation, just that the system runs it so fast it seems to be the same instant.

>You might want to change the wording.
>Relay terminal drones
Would this just be multiple rolls for the same hack, or would it just provide bonuses/penalties for the targets and the users? I'm leaning more towards modifiers for a single roll. But I can't think of how that would apply for using multiple relay points at once.

Ex; using three drones to hack a single target by bouncing a transmission around. Would the target need to roll a counter hack to find the origin, and roll to successfully hack it? Or would the target just get penalties for isolation and reroute on one counter hack roll?

Also, if the target had a low processor and couldn't hack very well, would he roll a spot check to find and destroy the correct relay drone? Or would they need to destroy all three of them to interrupt the relay?

I imagine destroying even one of the relay drones, any penalties you would have to counter hacking would be reduced.

As for the initial hacker (the player in this scenario), would they get a harder skill check for hacking depending on the amount of drones they used in a relay?
I believe doing something like this would be similar to setting up a botnet no?
nope, it'd just extend the physical range of the hack

>"but monotreeme, there is not listed range"
>the sound of hurried typing
>"there is now!"

>counter hack to find the origin
counter-hack hacks back through whichever channel is the hacking, don't need to know physical location to counter-hack

>Also, if the target had a low processor and couldn't hack very well, would he roll a spot check to find and destroy the correct relay drone?
Perception check, remember, PCs are non biological, and by default have a router, they can sort of "hear" the direction that hacks are coming from.

>Or would they need to destroy all three of them to interrupt the relay?
in the given scenario if the relaying drone is destroyed, then another relaying drone can be utilized for the next hack as a backup.

>would they get a harder skill check for hacking depending on the amount of drones they used in a relay?
perhaps a cumulative reduction based on drones in the string...

nope, Hacking here isn't like DDOSing something. and that's a tactic I don't want to make available to players till other stuff gets firmed up...
Relay Unit(base cost; 200)
Mod Slots Taken=1
+allows authorized entity the ability to hack THROUGH you to extend the maximum range of any hacking
-things tend to attack a hacking source, and they’ll recognize you quick enough...
-Hacking entity must be within range of relay unit to hack through it

>Hacking range now capped at 20 meters
>Another relaying drone can be utilized for the next hack
>Based on drones in string
How about using more than one simultaneously to send the same malware instead of just using a chain as a relay?
you'd need an overcharge unit AND a second hack module AND a drone control unit.

parallel hacking is a slippery slope to overpower land
I realized where it may go.
oh, was this a probe to see how far you can take it?

right now we're into
source enough to get to level ~~26.5 for the mods alone...
I may have to seriously consult a more experienced brewer on exp costs for leveling...
Ha. Not really a probe. I just didn't know what you had already decided not to use.

>exp costs
I actually like the way the system looks. may be biased since I used a similar system for my homebrew. The only issue I noticed is that players have to choose between leveling up their stats or buying mods.
nah I mean the formula for determining level up costs...

the process seems sounds but the linear scale seems off.
Looking for something a little more logarithmic?

Robo-Solaire looked up the level equation for Bloodbourne. It starts at "level" of 12 (based on the average for beginning stats) and the amount of souls needed to advance a level increases by a little over seven after each level.

Ex; From 12 to 13 it takes 1039 echoes. From 13 to 14 it takes 1238 echoes, which is a difference of 199. From 14 to 15 it takes 1445 echoes, which is a difference of 207.

So on and so forth, the differences keep increasing by about 7 if you round the decimal.

Not sure if that solves anything.
"We are Legion for we are many."
I think we need a faction called Legion now similar to the geth
...what do you think the ungoliath is?...
sry i didnt quite get it.

the City have all the layers ?
The dark place have all the layers ?

or can they have all the layers ?

hit me up
Artikulator here on mobile. The layers are primarily beneath the city and spread out some into the surrounding area.
some areas don't have all the layers, in fact I'd bet most don't have ALL the layers, just a few.
Shhhh I was sleep deprived and forgot they existed let's pretend I never said that
no excuse, to atone, you can stat a thing that has no stats yet.
Forgive me Father Monotreeme for I have sinned
>Ungoliath Assassin (pic was inspiration)
>HP 30
>Armor+Hardening 4
>Strength 40
>Dexterity 60
>Mobility 60
>Processor 50
>Perception 50
>Hardening 40
>Encumbrance 6?
>Mass 50
>Firewall 50
>Source per kill?
>Source Reduction ?
>Initiative 60
>Only seen after PCs have passed through Ungoliath traps multiple times and only appear from behind during a trap. At first only one or two appear but more show up if PCs continue to pass through traps instead of evadeing them.

Best I can do I'm not a number cruncher.
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Forgot pic
Also forgot equipment (sorry I'm packing stuff to move)
>stealth system mod
>overcharge unit mod
>mono knife x2 (ingore breaking rule?)
>smoke grenade(s)
>grappling hook (also used offensively)
makes me think this would be a good "capra demon+2 dogs" setup...a boss that later appears as a run of the mill enemy...
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>A different Frame always detects their coming. The distant hum of their many wings. The dim pillars of light on the horizon. The olfactory sense of ozone in the air. Even the slight picking up of wind in the surroundings. It means they have come to carve the old borders. In purifying gouts of plasma, they are architects of the status quo. It is best not to be different.

I'm going to be mostly inactive today because I'm running Delta Green with some buddies in a town nearby, but I'll keep my eye on the thread when I can! I'm going to do my best to familiarize myself with the stat blocks over the weekend so I can accurately stat some terrifying automatons when I return.
>I'm going to do my best to familiarize myself with the stat blocks over the weekend so I can accurately stat some terrifying automatons when I return.
R8 my level 1 build

HP: 13
Psyche: 2
Armor + Hardening: 3
Strength: 35
Dexterity: 35
Mobility: 35+5 (100)
Processor: 35
Perception: 35
Hardening: 35
Mass: 20
Firewall: 35
Initiative: 38
Affinity: 37
Source: 30

[Break-Action] [Laser Designator] Shotgun (720)
Sword (150)
What's the Difference between Source Per Kill and Source Reduction Value on enemies?
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Just ran my first session using your Bloodbrew two days ago, I will probably start a storytelling thread when the players actually have entered "the country" (which I named Kos btw)
So far, the players didn't go further than getting out of town A to fighting bandits, but I managed to introduce a few subplots about modern hunters as well as hints about the upcoming war
Going pretty well so far
>(which I named Kos btw)
given the DLC I consider it a good name...

>Going pretty well so far
thats if players try to farm.
it's an incentive to not grind for loot or levels.


Do you still want vehicles, mono? I was thinking of how to stat an IFV or a humvee, but I'm not exactly sure how tanky they should be
>The Skull Grinders

A fanatical faction of deviant machines, they believe humanity abandoned the machines knowing full well what would happen to them without Source. Because of this, they hate humanity with a burning passion. Defacing any remaining images of humans, destroying any human remains they come across, and even going so far as to target machines that are too human-like in form. They hoard source, hoping to one day collect enough to ascend to self-sustainability. Then, they plan on finding what remains of the humans and wiping them from the face of the universe for their treachery.

To that end, they spend any time not in the field destroying human relics perfecting their combat frames and weapons.
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sure, nothing tankier than an APC though... something like MASS110 Armor/Hard peaks at 12

I want there to be a somewhat small number of vehicles. so, an ultra fast(motorcycle), medium fast(pic related or thereabouts), the APC(party of 6 plus provisions) and maybe a humvee(one carries 4 people and little else)

here, have a high mobility Mercedes..

yes...this will do...
I like how it has a giant useless intake in the place where its most likely to get shot.
could be that's just there because Mercedes has pride in it's products, it may well be solid armour behind that, or a shading trick...
Is it that bad? Jeeze
I was distracted...then exhausted...

despite the popularity of the threat...it's exhausting to safely "beat someone bloody"

it seems okay...never played RPGs so I have no frame of reference...

I just let you all start with the standard stats for a space marine and gave you up to 4 levels of source. it's as good a start as any.

I'd have gone Sword+Nightstick+ armor 1 and raised Dex
but I like fast dodgy builds
>it's exhausting to safely "beat someone bloody"
What the fuck is your day job?!

I wanted a quicker moving Ranged Stagger build, so a Shotgun seemed pretty good to start. I slapped Break-Action and Laser Designator on there because they were both cheaper than a level and there is literally NO downside to Break-Action on a shotgun. I think the first mod I'd go for would be Light-Frame for the extra mobility and half-action.
Are the Reverance and the Skull Grinders foils of each other, beyond their opposing objectives?
*Reverance prefers little groups of elite soldiers, while Skull Grinders do hordes of crappy warriors.
*Reverance attempts to convince "human"/frames to their side, while Skull Grinders just murder the "human" ones, and don't care about image-they just sign on whoever volunteers.
*Reverance has low-tech but high quality gear(gunpowder bolt actions, but calibrated to the nanometer) while Skull Grinders have lots of high-tech but crappy gear (laser guns with hand-blown lenses)
*Reverance has a tall command structure organized like a military, while Skull Grinders are basically just a massive, permanent lynch mob with prominent speakers(a wide command structure).
What are the Bonewheels of Lost Source?
>What the fuck is your day job?!
not my job, entertaining a lady...

this is good.

no idea as yet, we need playtesters.
Will soon. Currently not in the same place as the person who's been more involved than I.
all is fine, take your time. it seems I have a lot of rea-through and editing to do on monday...>>45100438
being one example...

if there are people not play-testing they can help by finding errors in the teext
I can see a common frame for them is actually just a horde of extremely cheap 3D printed frames with a single mind spread between them. Or like, a swarm of insect sized machines.
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or building stuff like this to fill out the ranks
second page from the end has a drone called SWORDS

if you google "SWORDS drone" you get that exact sort of thing.
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The leader of the Skull Grinders should be a swarm of flying drones, essentially small shark shaped tiltrotor aircraft about the size of a dog. Shimmering silver and able to take a multitude of forms, they're essentially the impression fish school from Finding Nemo except a psychotic swarm of razor blade covered machines. Known for personally purging entire blocks by choking the air with drones, shredding all organic life it comes in contact with. Surprisingly charismatic for a swarm of angry metal bees, most of the Skull Grinders simply refer to the gastalt entity as Die Rache Hard chYes I imagine it having a german accent for some reason.

so the players can befriend either the Revenance or the skull grinders but never both...provides a nice duality...
Reminds me of Phalanx, I like it. I can also see one of their other prominent voices being essentially a take on the Biblical Legion (Large number of AI's in a single main body.), actually that should just be the name, Prominent Voices.
Does anyone else think the factions need naming schemes, or should we save that for later?
nah, but I usually like factions to thematic antithesis.

revenants vs skullgrinders
but that also leads me to these questions
the foundary vs ???
the cult of the open mind vs ???
this is me by the way...using another dudes computer...

If Die Rache is a reference to what I think it is, I'd be perfectly alright with naming the remainder of the faction after Quantum Field Esoterica, or possibly even another one. Prominent Voices is also a badass title.

An anti-Foundry would probably be a collection of robots which think advancement is dangerous and unnecessary. All the knowledge and tools needed to continue existence are already present in the world.

Progress is the gateway to entropy. Named after the set of natural numbers known to them by kind, this faction of machines believes that to move outside of one's parameters is to invite chaos to the shimmering city. Only by refining their own routine and using the information intuitively known do they believe normalcy and safety can be preserved. Cleaning and maintenance Frames have been known to adopt this philosophy after reaching a certain point of sapience, not only because it preserves their own circumstances, but because it offers a sense of interior focus which may have been lacking. They struggle often even to speak, for fear it might entertain novel reflection. Nevertheless, many Frames come to this conclusion all on their own. Such is their nature.
Call them the Conservators?
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Conservators almost seems too on the nose, I don't know if see that name popping up in a Hidetaka game. The Souls jig seems more about threading a line between intuitive sense and obscure beauty. (If you haven't read Killscreen's article about Miyazaki and his quest for Transcendence I highly recommend it)

"The N" isn't necessarily working either, but I feel like it's closer. The fact of the matter is, in its current state, it's mostly up to the GM to manufacture the tone for Lost Source, rather than the tone coming from between the pages. It's weird to say, but I find the current prose/presentation almost unwelcomely robotic, despite the shitload of work put into collating it (luv u Mono). Even as a GM, I'm not sure I want to know the exact function of every little drone poking around the city. Imperative to every game in the Souls/Borne series is the sense of mystery, disquiet, and distinction from other works within the genre. I feel like we haven't pushed into that territory yet.

Even the Ungoliath, by definition the most horrific and alien force we have so far, is essentially a slight mutation of Geth/Tyranids. It feels oddly familiar, and I've never felt in familiar territory when I'm playing Souls/Borne (when I am, it's quickly subverted). The distinct "factions" used in this game, even, seem slightly improbable. A robotic world like this seems like it would be a constant fluxing chaos, faction titles only barely grasping trends in the info stream.

I'm working on a lore reframing right now to use for playtesting that I'll post here when it's done, to reintegrate some novelty and suspense for the players. We'll see where it goes! In the meantime, keep adding, because you're all doing beautiful work.
Also I just realized this robot should belong to the Foundry bc he's got a fucking microscope for a face. Looking for something else to use for Conservators/N
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Creator of Ungoliath here, just wanted to say that I didn't intend for it to be very alien. Ungoliath was intended, at first, to be a counter point to the thought process in the earlier threads that part of the reason most frames were insane was that a frame with high source was in essence operating multiple digital consciousnesses and thus causing madness. This has since been excluded from the current game's incarnation.

Ungoliath on the other hand was a single consciousness operating multiple frame (I admit I drew inspiration from the collectors from mass effect). It was meant to be more of a petulant child, spiteful and lashing out at its siblings to prove that not only was it the best, but that it deserves to be recognized as better than its creators.

Pic related was my original inspiration for an Ungoliath frame.
> the thought process in the earlier threads that part of the reason most frames were insane was that a frame with high source was in essence operating multiple digital consciousnesses and thus causing madness.
Never saw that in it, but it's a good idea. Ought to be resurrected, though I dunno how.
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I think it was in the second thread. We had some good ideas about frames who would be attacking you while like, talking about some sports game its fragmented mind barely remembered then switch into telling where the off ramp was. Or one frame that had had a dozen mouths all talking about the most inane thing like tapping into multiple phones at once.
Kind of like having OCD with multiple triggers.

I remember one frame that was this big combat bot with the personality of a mother bear. It had a cage at its stomach like a pregnant belly with the head of a bot inside. The head would try to sell you parts that the bigger frame tore off anything that attacked it.
(an addendum)

The head in the gut cage was its only head, it was both the mama and the child/merchant.
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That's fascinating! The way you describe them, it almost comes off as more of an arc boss than a faction. Collectors aren't a bad inspiration, as far as things go they're quite horrifying. Managed to stay mysterious even after traipsing through two of their bases.

Who made the Ungoliath? Humans? For what purpose? How else could we fluff the Ungoliath to make it more menacing and vaguely poetic?

>diesel robo-spider
holy fuck man
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Not sure what type of enemy you could classify it as. Was going for a Black Knight kind of feel, that every now and then the players would enter an area one was hunting in and suddenly traps, both VR and physical, everywhere, leading up to the Ungoliath frame attacking at their weakest.

In the original threads the general thought process was that humanity had digitized their minds, for whatever reason, and left the machines to the upkeep of the city. Now this has probably changed as the city seems more like a ghost town then a place the owners tidied up and left.

Maybe many of the citizens were forced to digitize or something.

Anyway Ungoliath would have been a digital security program meant to protect the system that the digitized minds of humanity resided in. Over time though the whole thing fell apart, much to Ungoliath's dismay.

Try to find out why it discovered that one of the biggest reason was that shit was fubar out in the real world. So it made its first Ungoliath frames and downloaded copies of itself directly into each one, as it does for each new frame. They went out into the city to find those causing problem to subdue, learn from, and eliminate them.

Thus it named itself Ungoliath, for it was great and powerful by being many.

To its horror though, bits the collective data consciousness itself were leaving. This disturbed it. Why would the creators abandon their home? Was it Ungoliaths fault? It had done as they tasked and done it perfectly as far as it could tell. The must fault must lied with their other creations. Subduing those awoken did nothing to ease its mind as they were almost all insane or without memories of it purpose.

So what does it think about the Awoken that manage to keep their sanity as their source climbs? Does it still want to subdue and reintegrate them? Or can it restrain itself if convinced that it's better to let this happen?
So Ungoliath decided to gather those that left, and any other true sapient minds it could find. It subdues them, takes them back and installs them in a new network of its own design. A better place (prison) for the creators.

Of course the errors that had caused the first to fail must be eliminated. The city must be brought to heel and those who allowed the city to degrade shall be deleted and replaced.

This was my original train of thought, feel free to adapt it to how the setting is now.(haven't been here for a few weeks so I don't know what changes you guys have made or which direction you're going in)
We've mostly been throwing lore ideas at mono and seeing what sticks. Nothing really concrete other than a (conceptual, lore-based) map.
It would most likely believe that since the creators ultimately decided to merge into one consciousness, these new ones must as well. They're just too young or stupid to realize it.

Suppose this could change though if the PCs were to take control/repair enough of the city and do some other great works it might decide they are the heirs to humanity.

Whether that means they go to the top of its shit list (as after examining itself and coming to the belief that it is truly sapient and is the true heir) or it decides to serve them in a bossy grandma "You do what I tell you cause I have experience." way.
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^is up to the GM (meant to add to the end)

Basically Ungoliath wouldn't be something that could be socialed or reasoned with until the player have completed like 75% of the map. It wouldn't be a matter of psyche, as a higher psyche is just more reason to stick them in its mind jar.

Once they PCs show they are capable of running shit that could change though.
Personally I feel like Ungoliath should never be able to be reasoned with. after the failure of keeping the creator's paradise together, after all the effort it has put in to building one of its own, the moment the PCs try to take over it goes into full aggro.

It will not have its new purpose denied to it the purpose it chose, the decision it made, it will see it through to the end.

Cue all active Ungoliath frames coming together and combining into a fuckoff huge mecha-spider with the network of consciousnesses in the core of its abdomen.
>I'm working on a lore reframing right now to use for playtesting that I'll post here when it's done,
though in counterpoint, in the design phase we do need to clearly identify things carefully just until they get properly nailed down. we can reduce the factions to base concepts

the factions and their names can be a snapshot of the ever-shifting flux of thoughts and concepts, or tied to general modes of thought.

and while I've outlined several drones I have not quite outlined even a major fraction of the autonomous entities.

>This has since been excluded from the current game's incarnation.
I might have just missed or skipped that when I copied it over.

>Ought to be resurrected, though I dunno how.
find a way to rewrite it to fit and I'll just shred the old entry for the new thing.

>comes off as more of an arc boss than a faction.
>The head would try to sell you parts that the bigger frame tore off anything that attacked it.
...I must have not been there for that part...

>it almost comes off as more of an arc boss than a faction.
thats kind of like how I put it in, like the Pursuer from Dark Souls 2.
does it feel like that?
or not?

>Was going for a Black Knight kind of feel,
I was writing that in as either war-droids or Revenance hunter teams...

>Maybe many of the citizens were forced to digitize or something.
I don't think we've gotten that ironed out this could be one possible explanation for the disapearance of humanity...

all of this works well.
if we can condense it to a paragraph or two that'd be pretty good...

starting to feel like final boss discussion...
perhaps it went all iRobot and decided the best way to protect humanity was to digitize them all.

it failed, a server-crash destroyed humanity and now it collects whatever human-ish entities it finds?
throw other potential ideas, throw alternates.

>Personally I feel like Ungoliath should never be able to be reasoned with.
the intent is that it runs as a force of nature NPC.

>Cue all active Ungoliath frames coming together and combining into a fuckoff huge mecha-spider
yeah...not doing that...not without way more work on the entity.
>thats kind of like how I put it in, like the Pursuer from Dark Souls 2.
>does it feel like that?
>or not?

You mean like a series of side bosses that pop up, just getting in the way or leading to goodies? I could see that.

>starting to feel like final boss discussion...

Whoa jeez, didn't think it'd go in that direction.

If we go iRobot direction that would add some nice desperation to it. Kinda like "Everything's fine, I can fix this. I can totally fix this."

It would also keep the hate for other non humans as their attempts to keep the city going or move on after humans caused the server crash.

Or they crashed it on purpose to either free or kill the humans.
no reazon why it can't be both the occasional pop-up AND the final.

the pop-ups are splinter segments of the whole, each one killed could take the main ungoliath from "machine god" to "potentially killable"

I'd kind of prefer the server crash to be just a matter of HDD bricking from old age...
Sounds good.

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