Not OP from last thread, but lots of progress has been made, so it's time to clean up.Canon:Factions:> Underworld Express >>52746798> WISE (Warrens Initiative for Scientific Enlightenment) encompassing the Cartography Guild >>52746778> Radiant March (which functions more like the Medical Corps after a while) >>52747348> House Clarion >>52747348> The Dead Brigade >>52752668Races:>Pure humans >>52760818For pure humans, beginning boons/feats based on their life above, like>MurdererGain +5 (maybe 10?) base Duress, but a boost to physical combat skills>ThiefGain a small boost to thievery skill/(whatever we decide to use for this). Alternatively, gain a large boost but lose a hand, left or right.>TraitorBoost to Charisma/talking skills>Slug people >>52761088Slug people are naturally resistant to poisons, and heal more readily than the other races. Wildly vulnerable to salt, though how likely is that to come up?>Gluttons>Beastmen>Mushroom men >>52760888Mushroom folk are naturally attuned to the deep places, giving them greater resistance to environmental Duress (maybe -5 at low levels, rising to -20 at higher levels?). Probably a bonus to create any chirurgic skill involving fungi. Likely vulnerable to fire.Locations:> Titan's Demesne >>52752298> Shanty Town >>52752308> The Stygian Lake and Its Forsaken Fleet >>52752348> The Cloth Garden >>52752668> The Slaughterhouse >>52753555> Death's Library >>52755731> The Unplottable Zone >>52753307Most of this (and other flavor) is covered in the PDF attached.Semi-canonical:Each faction has some fascination with the number 8, for reasons unknown.Speculative and non-canonical material to follow. If I missed any canon, link and paste the relevant bit.
# Duress MechanicsDuress is a scale from 1 to 100. Successful spellcasting requires a roll below current Duress, and successful sanity checks require a roll above current Duress. This reflects the unsettling and ecstatic nature of magic in the Maze.>>52758050Suppose a human Faithful has a relatively low base Duress of 20. Terrible at spells, but able to keep a cool head in the face of Horrors.The Faithful's party descends into the bowels of the Maze, into the Bones of the Dread God. As they go deeper, the Faithful hears the whispers of their horrid patron.Environmental Duress: +5 in the early levels, up to a punishing +20 in the bowels.Personal Duress: As the Faithful approaches the godhead, the whispers begin to seep into their mind. In the early levels, the whispers are barely there, +1d8 duress. As they approach the sanctum, we add dice, up to a maximum of (some arbitrary god power statistic)d8.By the time we reach the core, the Faithful is looking at 50-70 Duress, if not more. No longer the anchor for the party, they begin to discern unknown, even unknowable secrets. The sacrifice they make in stability is paid in part with increased knowledge of the Maze, and how to bend it to the Faithful's will.
# ClassesThe currently speculated classes allow for a variety of playstyles and party compositions without completely nailing any particular character into a class-shaped coffin.> Martial:> The Wandering Warrior> - Variants: Scourge (high Duress), Fallen Knight (low Duress)The Scourge fills the role of the berserk warrior, their armor adorned with spikes and chains to rend and tear what flesh remains, driving their bloodlust.The Fallen Knight is a warrior cast down to the Maze for a crime which may still haunt them. Trained in the deft use of their weapon of choice, they specialize in fortitude and exploiting the weaknesses of their enemies.> Support:> The Faithful> - Variants: Mazecaller (high Duress), Anchor (low Duress)The Mazecaller hears the whispers of the Ones Down Deep, using the chaos of the Maze to their advantage, remaking the flesh and opening paths that otherwise might not exist at all.The Anchor is a bastion of calm in the vortex that is the Maze. So sure of themselves are they that they can pass this sense of the moment onto others with only a touch. Their very presence can turn the tide of battle.> Magic:> The Blightmage> - Variants: Corruptor (high Duress), Chirurgeon (low Duress)Corruptors wield the raw fabric of the Maze to awesome effect, tearing flesh from bone and sending Horrors back to the dark corners of the Maze.Chirurgeons were cast into the Maze for reaching too far in their research (or at least getting caught). Their knowledge of alchemy can be turned to medicines, poisons, and even a brisk trade in certain substances otherwise unavailable on the Surface.
> Skill:> The First> - Variants: Mazeborn (high Duress), Hearthborn (low Duress)The Mazeborn are the mutant descendants of the First. No other person (if they can even be called such, anymore) can pass so gracefully through the tricks and traps of the Maze, the chaos changing their very forms throughout their lives.The Hearthborn are the stewards of the First Settlements. They know the ways of the Horrors and the wiles of the Maze, communing with their ancestors for ever greater knowledge and skill.> Pets:> The Mazefolk> - Variants: Soulbinder (high Duress), Spirittalker (low Duress)Tribesmen anon should fill in fluff here. Soulbinders focus on binding and controlling powerful spirits and (potentially) Horrors, where Spirittalkers fill the role of Diviner and minor summoner. Semi-mechanical flavor at >>52759655.# Duress and ClassesThe relationship between Duress, sanity, and magic allows for one class to fulfill multiple distinct roles within a party according to their Duress, with certain builds favoring high or low Duress, and the transition between these being relatively fluid. Duress management would be a key mechanic to flesh out with this style of character class.
Desperation mechanics discussed at>>52758363>>52758513>>52758667In response to the idea of necesity*duress occasionally resulting in mutations, I suggest another resource: Desperation.Desperation can be used to [add benefit to roll/give advantage on a roll/allow a reroll/save a failed roll]. It's a limited use resource which should play against duress.Thoughts for mechanics?>Using "Desperation" allows for [benefit]. Make a duress roll [with some modifier for Con/sanity or something].>Rolling under your duress score earns you a Mutation or a Madness, with the severity depending upon how badly you fail the throw.======We should probably codify what the actual resources a character needs to manage are in order to avoid pool overload.I would assume HP in some fashion, and Duress.Desperation could be interesting as a level reward, or even a quest reward. In Desperation, you call out to the fabric of the Maze itself to do something incredible.Unless severe mutation is a desired mechanic, these points should probably be fairly limited (though a class which gets one or more points per level could be interesting to explore the heavy mutation angle) and should do really crazy stuff when they rolls succeed. When they fail the Maze slaps you back, hard.Alternatively, it could be treated like action points, though that doesn't seem to fit the feel that "Desperation" implies.I guess it also depends on the density of encounters. Are parties fighting Horrors all the time, or is it like CoC where an encounter with one of the denizens of the Maze is an unfortunate (and likely fatal) event?
Desperation, cont.I loke to think that encounters are uncommon yet not completly fatal. The main antahonist seems to be the maze utself, with the denizens of it simply being another layer to the madness.Also, i like the desperation thing we have going now.>The Wandering Warrior falls to one knee, reeling from the wound he has. The panicked shouts of his team fade away. In desperation, he gives into the will of his accursed armor. He stands tall again, the armor seeing fit to protect its host>the Faithful clasps his hand together, clutching an icon of faith. His companions gibbering and maniacil, he closes his eyes. He does the only he can evwn think of, he prays to the one below, begging for aid.
Things still needed:Stat canon:HP and Duress seem pretty set. Is Desperation canon? How does it work? What other attributes do characters have? STR/DEX/CON/etc.?Monster canon:Need some crunch for some of the monster fluff.Race canon:Crunch and fluff could both use some work.Magic canon:How does any of this shit even work?
>>52761640The Spirittalkers takes a more benign path, using their gifts to understand their situation before acting. If needed, they can summon a spirit ally to help them.The Soulbinders are much more ruthless with their gifts, not only binding powerful spirits to directly infuse them with great powers, but also being willing to bind horrors if they believe they can control them.On another fluff note about spiritualism, I am thinking that it's considered heretical in many surface religions (it's usually equated with paganism), enough to make kingdoms brand practitioners of spiritualism as criminals and exile them to Warren's Folly. Experienced Spiritualists can usually tell if someone else share their gifts, so the local Tribe will often station a tribalist near the entrance to welcome exiled spiritualists and help them learn to command their powers.
Alright, good recap. So should we focus down on stats for players. Weve got hp, duress and desperation.
>>52761617If someone wants to update the PDF that'll probably help>>52761772for monsters, we need to understand the player's stats before we can balance monsters against them, so let's start there.I think STR/DEX/CON is a good place to start, unless we can find something more creative
>>52762004Desperation feels like it should fill the role of Action Points, Inspiration, Fate Points, etc from other systems. It seems weird to me to have an entire stat that only comes into play at rare times
>>52762004>>52762016The setting feels like it should be very lethal, in a way. Fending off environmental dangers and Horrors should be possible, but a failure results in (sometimes permanent) damage. You might survive a mauling from an Olm Matriarch, but you're going to be permanently scarred and potentially weakened even after the Chirurgeon is done. Slowly accumulating physical damage and magical curses might lead players to seek the cruel magic of the March to cure them.
I think I'd vote to table Desperation mechanics until we work out basic player stats. That'll give some ground to calibrate monsters, and I think that'll make the best way to allocate and use Desperation obvious.If monsters are on you all the time, using them as action points makes a lot of sense. If encounters are more "light combat, occasional eldritch horror", then having the points be heavy hitters might make more sense.
>>52762121Ok, so lets outlign some stats that each class could use well. If you wanna be a little more creative beyond normal strength and int go right ahead.
>>52762185Physical stats seem like a necessity. Minimally STR/DEX, along with at least Charisma. INT/WIS and maybe CON could be subsumed in Duress, but that's probably hiding too much behind that stat.
>>52762185Might, Knowledge(general knowledge of the Maze, accepting better names), Will(resistance to changes in duress also helps you keep your wits about you when dealing with the horrors), Agility, charisma.
>>52762302Sold on that layout. Names are pretty solid, too.
>>52761617What's the tech level?
>>52762360Nothing canonical. Previous thread said it felt Bloodborne-y, so sort of 1700s-1800s, but nothing's set in stone in terms of tech level.
>>52762038Oh, actually, 8s have it. Desperation acts like action points. My bad.
>>52761718>>52762038Thought the 8s battle it out (sort of)!
>>52762395In that case, I feel like there should be an engineer or somesuch that uses firearms and knows their way around the technology throughout the maze.Unless guns were already counted out for some reason.
>>52762445I don't think any weapons are canonical, yet. Another anon suggested guns, too, but no confirmation, yet. THE 8s WILL SHOW US THE WAY!
>>52762423>>52762444I wrote the action points post, and I think it was a little misleading maybe. I think they should be rare heavy hitters like >>52762121 said. I think they should be rare and really powerful, not commonplace like you might see action point usage (ie, these are going to be used in dire straights, not every combat encounter)
>>52762712Origional desparation poster here. I agree that this should be a rare usage. In my mind it's a way to help buffer a harsh setting, while still presenting negative, flavorful effect. It's meant to be a last ditch escape from death, as the name "desperation" implies. It should probably be limited to 1/day, and even that might be generous.
>>52762712>>52762813OP of this post, but not original OP here.Okay, cool, we've got consensus on the scale of Desperation, at least, so that's great news.I gotta pass out for a few hours, but I hope the thread catches more posters and we can keep fleshing this out until OP gets back.I've got a chunk of this new material committed to a PDF, so I'll try to post that tomorrow when I've cleaned it up and merged it with the content from OP's PDF (unless they beat me to it).I haven't been this hyped on a setting in ages. Can't wait to see what weirdness falls out.
>>52762302>Mightdamage and hp>Loregeneral knowledge about the Maze>Willresisting mental effects and Duress>AgilitySpeed of movements and attacks, and a measure of manual dexterity>Charismatalking powerDoes this look good?
>>52762981I like it. Broad enough to allow some tweaks down the line if need be, but focused enough to get through a wide variety of encounters without faffing about figuring out what attribute's relevant.
>>52761624Gluttons gain Duress very quickly if they haven't eaten yet as they are irrationally afraid of starvation.
>>52763270A slightly expanded version of that from the last thread.> Higher personal Duress when hungry (Gluttons have to eat at least X lb. of flesh [or maybe just any food] per hour). Each missed feeding provokes a sanity check.Time and bulk probably need tweaking to not be a babysitting sim, but I like the overall idea.
>>52762981So primary stats for each class would probably be something like this?>Wandering Warrior: Might>The Faithful: Will>Blightmage: Lore>The First: Agility>The Mazefolk (don't like this name): CharismaI think that could work pretty well
What would the dice come down to? Percentile d100s? d20? Checks' difficulty based on a GM set number or rolling under your own scores?
>>52763821Looks like d100 based on the duress mechanic, but that could be unique.
>>52763821I'd love to see the number 8 implemented. Whether that's in the form of 8 sided dies or treating 8s as some kind of beneficial outcome despite being a rather low number
>>52763882masterb8 most likely
>>52763882We could tie a d8 into desperations somehow.
>>52763918Roll a d8 and any other number has an alright affect but an 8 is something miraclous? And if we go with overall d100s, the 88 or 08 are like the nat 20s of the system.
>>52763882>>52764383While I do think we should implement the 8 into the mechanics, I think we should use d100 for skill checks, smaller dice for damage, and maybe d8 for desperation?
>>52761633>>52761640I wonder if each class would have specialized dangers in the Maze that would affect them personally.For example, Faithful running the risk of having their faith broken and thus falling, Blightmage might risk being infected by a variety of magical sicknesses, Mazefolk has the risk they can get possessed by a particularly malevolent spirit. Perhaps it would be tied to Duress?
>>52763764>>The Mazefolk (don't like this name): CharismaOP for this thread here.I don't really like it, either, but I didn't know what else to call the base class that fit the theme while also capturing the tribal angle that the Tribesmen anon proposed. I would take a better name in a heartbeat.
>>52767075That's a really cool idea. I'd love to see some fleshed out fluff and crunch for this. Could make for great adventure hooks.
>>52767162If they are all about controlling other creatures/spirits, what about something like the Haunted or the Possesed (my preference would be the former).The fluff could be something along the lines of the essence of the maze, being infinite and inescapable, is used by the Haunted to trap the spirits of other beings.
>>52767247I like Haunted a lot. Very on theme.
>>52766784So if skills are d100 checks, do we want to set up a system for that? Like, Average situation = DC 30 (roll above), Tricky = DC 50, Difficult = DC 70 , Impossible = DC 90?And to do the check, roll d100 and add any relevant stats/skills.
>>52767262So what are the names of our official classes, and their Low and High Duress versions.
>>52767669OP2 here:OG OP hasn't returned (that I know of) to make things canonical, but current fanon classes are> Martial:> The Wandering Warrior> - Variants: Scourge (high Duress), Fallen Knight (low Duress)> Support:> The Faithful> - Variants: Mazecaller (high Duress), Anchor (low Duress)> Arcane:> The Blightmage> - Variants: Corruptor (high Duress), Chirurgeon (low Duress)> Skill:> The First> - Variants: Mazeborn (high Duress), Hearthborn (low Duress)> Pets:> The Haunted> - Variants: Soulbinder (high Duress), Spirittalker (low Duress)Also, I'm working on a LaTeX preamble for formatting stuff like stat blocks and class features and whatnot while I compile what's here so far into a PDF. If anyone knows of good existing libraries or similar, I'm all ears.
Anyone have any interesting ideas for monster canon? We've got a general idea for basic character attributes, so let's make something to kill 'em! :DAlso, previous thread is archived on sup/tg/ http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html
>>52767997We got a number of monsters. Straight off the head there's carrion crow monsters, corpse giants, olm mothers, and corrupted humans. There's also The Hunger, but that thing is kind of unkillable.We will need stats before we can begin statting monsters however.
>>52763764Rerolling for this idea.
>>52767950Example PDF generated by the LaTeX template found at https://github.com/evanbergeron/DND-5e-LaTeX-Template.
>>52768400Dubs confirms.Also, I wasn't around for the earliest threads, but are both fluff and crunch decided by rolls, or just fluff?
>>52768420Both fluff and crunch are confirmed by rolls.
>>52768420Both, but if enough people tend to agree on something it can be canon without a good roll
>>52768404Looks good, and anons with photoshop skills might be able to pretty it up with spooky stuffNow that he have the stats decided, do we want to use d100 rolls?
I think we should rename Agility to Grace, and Charisma to Charm. I think the shorter names fit better, and "charm" has a fun hint at more magical purposes.
>>52768798Confirmed.>>52768777Nice trips.Do you mean d100 for stat checks? That might be pretty punishing depending on how those numbers get decided. I like the d100 for Duress and sanity checks, just because of how that's going mechanically so far.
>>52768798This is now canon, the names were always up to modification anyway, although I don't like grace as it doesn't fit with the theme of the setting; you will use it to run away from foes more than you use it for acrobatics.
>>52768864Yes, but I figured stats would be reasonably high to match a d100 roll. d20's, d6's or d8's could work as well, I think we just need to pick one and stick with it
>>52769004I like the idea of doing it CoC style, if only because the setting is so lethal. On that note, how about 3d8 to generate the initial attribute values (to keep with our 8 theme)? High enough that you could reasonably be pretty fantastic in one, but likely that you won't want to rely on stat rolls.Skills are going to be the main way to get things done, I'd think, so I don't mind stats being lowish.
As far as lore and '8' goes, I think there should be some subtlety. The Radiant March's logo is a sun with 8 rays, the Ministry uses Octagons, WISE could be an oroborous style infinity (aka sideways 8), or a hydra-style octopus logo and so on. It should be one of those things that people fixate on, but are not aware of it at all, especially the crazies.We need some ideas for failing duress checks. Should the penalty be built in to the check, or should there be a scale?>You failed your DC 40 check, so you begin hearing voicesOr>You failed your Duress check by [20/50] points, so you now [minor penalty/major penalty]
Rolled 8, 1, 3, 6, 2, 6, 1, 2, 8, 3, 2, 3, 2, 6, 4 = 57 (15d8)>>52769100Let's see an example of rolling for stats, order is Might, Lore, Will, Agility, Charm>>52769238Checks should definitely scale.
Not sure if this has already been suggested, but wouldn't there be some people in this setting who'd want to feed the collective, so they could potentially open up a way to the surface, or at least leave the city for good?
>>527692388 be praised, that's some great lore.What sort of situations would provoke a Duress check? Or should Duress represent a constant penalty on skill rolls?>>5276926611 Might, 14 Lore, 11 Will, 8 Agility, 12 CharmThat's a cute clumsy mage you got there, dude.
>>52769285There was an idea for something like that in the previous thread.>Cult of the Feast.>Cultists who believe that the Hunger is in fact a god imprisoned in the city. Mercifully, they don't feed people to the Hunger. Instead, they study ways to free what they believe is a god from its hunger, freeing not just a god but also the countless souls trapped in the Hunger. Possibly the inventors of the spell that can temporarily halt the Hunger.>The Feast sates the Hunger.>The Fires keep the Feast.>The Family tends the Fires.>The Hunger will be free.>The Feast is eternal.>The feast is a special project that the cult hopes will be so grand and delicious that the Hunger will be sated by it. To accomplish this, they task Cartographers with securing certain specimen from the city to add to the feast as ingredients.>They doubt that special ingredients will be enough however, so they wish to find rituals and more to improve the feast, even if it would render them insane. They also, through unknown means, keep several master chefs prisoner in their dungeons in the event they need them.>They don't want to use human resources as ingredient if they can help it. They won't hesitate to do it if it turns out that human sacrifices are needed however.
>>52769435I rolled for it so many times, and it just never took. Here's hoping this'll work, because I think this'd be a great bit of flavor, and make a lot more sense of the Glutton race.
>>52769435That seems like a huge stretch. It seems like the first thing the players would want to do is try and feed these things so they can open up a way to the surface. That doesn't even sound that crazy, when you say it like that.
>>52769305I think personal duress is your own number which you need to roll under (sanity/corruption checks), while enviornmental duress provides a static modifier to your d100 checks based on how fucked up things (enviornment, enemies, company, trauma etc.) are. Ability power scales positively with duress, while sanity checks need to be rolled under.
>>52769476I like the version of it that just has a different understanding of the Hunger, rather than anything explicitly about opening a way to the Surface.
Cults which are minor factions and connected to races sounds fun.Feast cult=gluttonsRavagers =beast traitsSome cult was suggested earlier for slug menMyconid commune=Fun-guysBasically subraces are the result of cults/groups embracing certain aspects of the underground.
Rolled 63 (1d100)>>52769490I think we should roll for (starting) duress as a separate stat, disregarding all values lower than 10 and greater than 80. Additionally, having high Will lessens the amount your duress increases by.
>>52769490My idea of how Duress works is that it's all just one number, the sum of your personal Duress and the environmental Duress.My understanding of magic as laid down in the last thread is that to cast a spell successfully, you must roll below Duress, and to pass a sanity check you must roll above.Mechanically, this means that it's easier to cast spells the crazier you are (or the more stressed out and open to the whispers of the Maze).It also follows with the overall awfulness of the deeper parts of the Maze, and managing Duress as you encounter more oppressive locations will be important to any party not composed entirely of gibbering murderhobos.To follow that, I think it almost makes sense for Duress to cause a skill penalty, except that the skill monkey standin (the Mazeborn) is high Duress, so they might need class features that reduce or negate this skill penalty at the cost of mutations or something.
>>52769627Duress strikes me as being a calculated stat, where your base Duress is something like 2xLore - Will or something like that. Being more knowledgeable about the Maze makes you more prone to madness, but a high Will can temper that.
>>52769664Actually, doing some messing around with numbers, it might be more entertaining to do it as(4 x Lore) - (2 x Will). This means that if you max out on your Lore role (24), your base Duress is anywhere from 48 to 90, which seems appropriate for a serious mage.
>>52769664Maybe, however, that makes starting duress very low as the Mage from above has a starting duress of only 17... maybe add a static 'bonus' determined by your class and background.
>>52769729This seems like a good way to calculate it. This gives our example stat block 30-odd Duress, and with a few points in magic mushroom drugs, a baselines of solid 50 could be achieved
>>52769732Thematically, I think that makes sense. I don't think most people are going to start out at high Duress when they're new to the Maze. Like in CoC, you don't start out knowing all the horrible stuff, but as you're exposed to it you can begin to use it.Also with my altered calculation from >>52769729 it'll be a more reasonable 34 for our example mage.
>>52769770>>52769768I like this. If our character tries to be a mage, they can get to around 50 with some perks/feats and item choice, or could lower it to a mild 20 if they chose a more low-Duress focused build
Rolled 7, 8, 7, 8, 7, 7, 1, 5, 8, 5, 6, 8, 5, 4, 1 = 87 (15d8)>>52769770That makes more sense and is more reasonable, However, we probably should still have a minimum starting duress. We should also generate a few more characters for examples.
>>52769855Might 22Lore 22Will 14Grace 19Charm 10Some higher ones in this roll
>>52769770This means that most players will start out as a low Duress build, but they'll be able to experiment with Duress management and transitioning into the higher Duress builds as the Maze gets more dangerous.>>52769830This sort of fits the natural progression of most characters, where (for our example) a mage is pretty squishy and questionable in combat early on, but scales quadratically once exposed to some threats.Also keep in mind that the Chirurgeon will likely be able to produce Duress manipulating drugs and such for additional management options.>>52769855Minimum Duress depends on how dangerous madness is. Setting it to 10 means anyone will go insane at least 10% of the time on any check, but also that anyone has at least a 10% to cast a spell. That seems a bit high to me, at least on the sanity end, but I'm open to ideas.
>>52769855What about racial traits? Do Fat Men get something like +3 Might, -2 Will or something more like +die roll for Might, -1 die roll for Will?Also, should we do a roll-four-discard-the-lowest so people don't get shafted on stats?
>>5276989260 Duress base, high Grace and Might. Tough call. Seems like a natural fit for a Wandering Warrior, but could reasonably slot in as a diesel Blightmage or First.
>>52769912Well, at 10 Duress they won't go insane, since at most they'll fail the check by 9. All it will do is spook them an drew increase Duress
>>52769953Oh, fair point. I like that, then. 10 minimum Duress seems all right.
>>52769915Racial traits would definitely be good stuff. Seeing that >>52769892 hardcore set of rolls makes me almost think 3d8 is OP, but I think it could be okay for the lethality of the setting.Equally, I don't think getting shafted on your stat rolls guarantees you get wrecked. It definitely makes it more likely, but I've had some impressively shitty CoC characters make it out on the other end with some luck. And if you die, there's always another prisoner to replace you.
>>52769912Going along with stuff people said earlier we could have scaled results and if you fail a test at 10 the downsides aren't too harsh, also insanity could only happen if your get higher than 100 duress.>>52769915Static bonuses, otherwise it is too swingy. Sure it could be either 3d8 or 4d8 drop lowest depending upon the equivalent of the DM.
Currently working on the first part of the Warren book, "Creating your Character". This will include what we have so far on races, classes, and abilities. If you want to roll for more of this stuff, go for it and it'll be added as I can get to it.
I'm not familiar with CoC, and I know that we don't have full mechanics yet, but 3d8+racials seems rather swingy.What about 8+1d8+ racials? That gives us anywhere from 6 to 18, which is in line with systems that I am used to.
>>52770559Yeah, that could be an option as well.>>52770489We should probably work on specific abilities now.
>>52770489In particular, working out the racial bonuses would be good.Let's say stat bonuses max out at +3/-3, always summing to 0 unless there's a compelling reason to do otherwise.Skill bonuses max out at +10/-10, summing to 0, with no more than 5 skills affected, total. Thus, you could have two +10s, a -10, and two -5s; or three +5s, a -10, and a -5; etc.Tentatively:Humans get a bonus based on their background. Choose one stat bonus and one skill bonus from (list to be determined).Slug people have decreased Grace (-3), but increased Will and Lore (+2 and +1, respectively). Resistant to poison. Skills TBD.Gluttons have increased Might (+3). but reduced Will and Grace (-2 and -1, respectively). Skills TBD. Also, lol, Will and Grace, tho.Beastmen have increased Grace (+3), but reduced Charm and Will (-2 and -1, respectively).Mushroom men have increased Will (+3), but reduced Grace and Charm (-2 and -1, respectively).Lore is notably absent from the racial abilities, which I think is appropriate because no race is really more knowledgeable about the nature of the Maze in the lore.
>>52770559https://the-call-of-cthulhu.obsidianportal.com/wikis/primary-attributesCoC has more calculated attributes than we're working with, mostly.
>>52770559> 8 + 1d8Min: 9Max: 16Avg: 12.50Std Dev: 2.291> 3d8Min: 3Max: 24Avg: 13.50Std Dev: 3.969> 4d6 drop lowestMin: 3Max: 18Avg: 12.24Std Dev: 2.847Just for comparison.
>>52770710What about bonuses and penalties to certain duress checks? +/- 5Mutations/corruption, trauma/terror, paranoia, hallucinations/delusions, fatigue/lethargy etc. could be shuffled around to gve races more flavor if needed.
>>527709288 gets, and i do like the sound of it. An anon recommended class specific duress trial before. It certainly gives our would be dm to tailor encounters effectivley.
>>52770928Yeah, definitely. Mushroom men also canonically ignore some amount of environmental Duress due to their attunement to the Maze, so that's something to work with.
Faithful anon jere. Ill start coming up with some Faithful unique duress trial and maybe some abilities. Im on the bus headed to an art museum a the moment so it may take a few hours. What sort of modifiers should i be trying to use for the encounters?
Rolled 4, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 6, 1, 4, 3, 6, 7, 4, 7, 2 = 53 (15d8)>>52771285So far we've just got basic abilities and Duress, so by all means come up with whatever you think fits your vision.I'd imagine that Horror encounters would increase personal Duress, while maybe there are Relief encounters where something positive (or at least not actively harmful) happens to reduce personal Duress.Attribute damage is pretty common in highly lethal settings, and the average rolls are high enough that this is probably survivable without seeming underpowered.I would think the Faithful would have a basic bonus to their Duress, either by ignoring X amount of environmental Duress, or maybe having a daily modifier of +10/-10 Duress (they choose which).There's also the role of the Anchor to consider. Is their power of calming an aura, or a focused touch?An aura might hamper high Duress builds, but a touch could leave the party stranded and insane when they all stumble into a Horror encounter.
Would a hunger stat work? We have Gluttons as a race, so introducing some kind of a hunger mechanic might fit thematically.Most food that can be found in the Maze would probably cause Duress when eaten (and sometimes just by smelling or looking at it) with Gluttons being immune to food based Duress (to balance it, Gluttons has to eat more often).Starvation will probably have a variety of effects, but one special effect would be that the Hunger is attracted to starving people, increasing the chances of the Hunger showing up.
Idea for a madness effect:OCD30 duress needed>Any time you gain duress, you gain an additional 5 points. These 5 points can be reduced, but only with a certain specific ritual. >If you are unable to complete your ritual, you gain an additional 5 duress. To lose your extra duress, your ritual must be performed to completion an additional 1d8 times in a row:Roll 2d4. This is the number of times you must do your ritual each time from now on to recieve benefits.Roll 1d10 to choose your ritual [table to follow].
>>52771558Sounds good, and the 8's are in your favor.I think that the Gluttons should resist effects of bad (poisoned or unnatural) food, but have a higher risk to become obsessed with/compelled by it.
>>52771478How about this the anchor is all about maintaining duress levels and keeping everyone focused in encounters and in good shape physically and mentally. However, the Mazecaller manipulates the maze and possible encounters themselves to their advantage, also protects others from duress by taking it themselves instead and are highly resistant to duress
>>52771649Ideas>Hand wringingYou must do some sort of gesture repeatedly to calm yourself. You cannot be holding anything to do this ritual>OrderYou must readjust or double check that a number of things in your enviornment equal to your 2d4 roll are aligned perfectly, including spacing, angle and orientation.>Calming phraseYou must audibly repeat a chosen mantra to yourself. This does not work if you cannot hear yourself over other noises, and will likely be heard by those nearby. (stealth penalty)>Odd motionA sort of dance that is alien to others, you must stop moving, and perform a number of gestures, turns, and motions in the same spot to calm yourself.>Spot the ObjectYou look for a certain quality which you find reassuring. You must visibly confirm a certain number of things which share a quality such as color, shape, or material within 10 feet of you, although you may move around to search.>PhobiaYou associate terror with a certain mundane object. Roll again on this table, and keep that effect as your ritual (including this choice). In addition, choose (or roll for) a mundane object or small animal. Any time you see, encounter or are strongly reminded of this trigger, you gain the penalties of OCD and must do your ritual accordingly.Also, gaining 80+ duress while having OCD grants a stacking effect, requiring a reroll on this table and the completion of both rituals. Dropping back below 80 reduces your ritual back to just the origional.Thoughts? Feel free to suggest additional features.
>>52771892Faith anon here again, that is essentially the idea i was running with the faithful. They either lower the duress of those around them or take it upon themselves.
I typed this up awhile ago, but I was on a flight so couldn't post, sorry if some of these kinds of ideas have been tossed around or shutdown already.I think that leveling/gaining xp should give access to duress dependent abilities. If you have low duress (<35?) you could use only the low duress variant of the ability. High duress (>65?) you could only use high duress version. Midrange you could use both, but to lesser extents. Maybe low duress abilities would have success based on rolling above your duress score, with degrees of success based on how much you beat the DC by. High duress would have you rolling under your score. This way, midrange duress could be more versatile but weaker while high and low duress is more specialized. Overall, I think high duress should be stronger but riskier than low.Should there be two kinds of leveling, one for the supernatural side of things and one for the more mundane. The example I'm thinking is separating the leveling of, say, a Blightmages spell efficacy or a Wandering Warriors inhuman endurance from one of the Firsts' ability to pick locks or how hard it is to fatally wound the Faithful.
>>52771996Seems good. I would also add phobias which significantly increase duress (by about 20) when in the presence of a certain object type or creature. Phobias are very useful for alternating between high and low duress for the purpose of ability access, however, stacking multiple phobias can make you insane at a moment's notice.>>52772127This looks very good, but I'm not sure about the different ways of leveling.
>>52772127I think this is a good fit for the current class dichotomy, and lines up with what the established builds seem to be.A high Duress part is feasible, but it leaves you with way less support infrastructure, so I imagine most parties will start low, drift into different maintenance Duress levels as they progress, and then possibly shift in the endgame toward high Duress as they become inured to the effects of the Maze.With luck, this'll avoid the Linear Warriors/Quadratic Wizards problem by pushing the base Duress level of the party up, increasing power and magic access mostly uniformly.
>>52772233A high risk/high reward playstyle vs a "safer" more mundane route. This works pretty well and seems to have become a peimary feature of this whole thing.
Faithful abilities- brainstorm edition>They stand with meLow duress-mundaneThe faithfuls assurance in the protection from those below allows them to take wounds that would fell a lesser manTemporarily increases the faithfuls damage resistance>words of encouragementLow duress-mundaneA few kind words and a look of understanding can go a long way down hereA single ally has duress reduced by a small number>A candle in the darkLow duress-supernaturalThe faithful seems to glow with etheral light, a soothing sight for weary eyesThe faithful lights up the area around them and slight increases the duress resistance of those around them>Drive back the darkLow duress-MundaneThe zeal of the faithful is infectious indeedA single allys primary stat is boosted for the duration of the encounter>Righteous RebukeHigh duress-supernaturalThe faithful is but a vessel, one meant to hold the line in this unholy struggleFaithful makes a ranhged attack against a single target, that tatget is compelled to attack the faithful.Just a feq ideas while i have a moment
>>52770896Still phone posting in an airport so this may be rocky but,I think that the system should use 3d8 stats with percentile rolls for checks.The PCs could choose to add or subtract their scores from a roll, as it benefits them. If a warrior is rolling to slice something they would roll a d100, then add their Might score to beat the DC of whatever they're trying to hit. Alternatively maybe a Warrior could subtract their might score from damage dealt to them. I think that 3d8 has large variance to allow for PC's to be totally helpless or all together incredible. Any disparity between what contributions the player's themselves can make based off their stats can only contribute to the sort of fated and unequal tone of the game overall.I also think that the desperation mechanic that's been churned over for a bit could be linked to the grand total of a PC's stats.>you get a combined score of 20, you suck but have desperation points out the ass>you get a combined score over 100, you're approaching some serious power but your so intimidating enemies can gain desperation against you.
>>527732788s have it. Is this a wholesale replacement for skills, or just for ability checks where skills don't otherwise apply?If the former, that leaves the skill monkey a bit out in the cold, unless the mutations that have been mentioned add additional benefits on top of their ability scores.The Desperation idea is interesting, too. Calculating that balance point will be tricky, though.
>>52773480Maybe being proficient in a skill could allow some one to roll additional die? Starting low and increasing with the characters level/competence with the skill they're rolling for.
>>52772902>MartyrdomHigh Duress-SupernaturalThe Faithful is a pillar, to hold up his companions. The Faithful is a shield, to defend them. The Faithful is a guide, to show them the way. Most of all, he is a symbol...and a friendThe Faithful will take on all damage and duress direcred at his part for the next 1d4 turns. His Resistance to both is increased for the duration.Hmm, if we can get some more of the basics figured out in the coming days I may be able to playtest this with my players in a couple of weeks and see what needs to be tweaked or figured out.
>>52773278First part is very good. However, the second part is absolute trash, desperation points are used when you are in a rough spot hp or encounter wise or have very high duress for example 80+ duress where a single duress event can render you insane. The monster and horrors are beatable, although tough, until a certain point at which your duress is high and your health is low and you can't withstand the increasingly horrible horrors and decide to either escape with what knowledge you have gained or press on farther and risk insanity and death with a little help from your desperation.
>>52773772I may be missing out on what desperation is supposed to actually do. I thought that the intended effect was supposed to be similar to something like 5e's Inspiration or DCC's fate burning, (I'm sure there are other examples but I believe these are well-known) just a little something that you could expend to just barely tip the scales in your favor.
>>52773865It's meant to be more potent, and to have a heavy cost associated with it. It allows a character to survive something otherwise deadly, or perform a (normally) nearly impossible feat, but by doing so they open themselves up to the corruption of the Folly.
>>52773772>>52773865>>52774195I think the idea was to make them like fate points, but more potent, more dangerous, and less common. You don't burn one every encounter, you burn one when the boss killed two PC's and the other is across the room totally insane.
>>52772127I like this, although I think some abilities should be locked to only High Duress and some to only Low Duress. A chirurgeon might roll above Duress while attempting to heal a wound, because the action requires a steady hand and a level, focused mind, and becomes more difficult as stress mounts. To balance this, a magical healing spell might require a roll above, but have a chance at mutation. Because these two abilities are sufficiently different, I think they should be two separate abilities (although they do work well together)
>>52774327To add on to them being riskier but more potent, all the wound treatment will do is at most stop bleeding, prevent infection, and set a bone. A healing spell will completely close the wound, good as new if nothing bad happens.
>>52772902>>52773730Resurrecting this post >>52744686 for some general utility spells that I could see any class taking, especially the Mazeborn or a Chirurgeon.>Flickering FlameThis spell creates a small, hovering candle-like flame. The caster can move the flame, but it passes through objects and produces no heat. The candle illuminates an area five feet in each direction. The spell can be sustained indefinitely after a successful cast, but the caster gains a small amount of Duress every hour after the first. If the light is sustained for more than eight hours, roll a Sanity check. If failed, the character gains Blindness. This blindness is magical in nature and can be removed with curse-dispelling abilities.>Woodbone BondOne wooden construction such as a stairway, bridge, or door that you can see gains Resistance against physical damage, and can support ten times as much weight. However, the caster becomes more vulnerable to physical attacks.
Do we have a critical hit system in place? Do we want spell mishap/crit/mutation/insanity tables for when things go wrong?
>>52774633No we do not.>>52774545These spells seem good.
>>52774656>>52774545I don't know wether they should be high or low duress spells. They are clearly supernatural, but have more minor, less hands-on effects, which makes me think low duress.
I like the idea of Soulbinders being able to control Horrors temporarily, so here's my take on it.>EnthrallRequires 80-100 DuressBinds a spirit to the body of a Horror, attempting to possess the Horror. If the Horror fails its saving throw, it will be temporarily possessed by the spirit and put under the caster's control. While under the caster's control, the Duress caused by the Horror will be decreased.Each round while controlling the Horror, the caster must perform a saving throw. If it's failed, the caster gains increased Duress and the Horror breaks free from the possession. If the caster is controlling more than one horror, they must roll for each possessed Horror (one failed saving throw will free all of the Horrors).The caster may choose at any time to slay all possessed Horrors instantly.The saving throw would of course differ from Horror to Horror. Some horrors would likely be immune to Enthrall.
There seems to be a bit of a temporary (I hope) lull in posting going on right now. But I think that we should have a sort of collective review/vote on many of the ideas introduced in this thread. We could do a straw poll I suppose.I hope that the wording on these is clear enough.http://www.strawpoll.me/12776511http://www.strawpoll.me/12776518
>>52775027I vote> To accomplish something using the stat you have to roll under your score (d100)until we decide whether skills are separate from attributes. If they are, then rolling on an attribute represents an unusual feat of raw ability. If they're not, then having it be a a number added or subtracted from a roll makes sense.
>>52775027Too early to call it, but if we do get raw numbers added to stats, since the average is twelve and a particularly good stat is 18-20 I think that will be pretty reasonable
>>52774836I like this, but we should work on the mechanics of the slaying. At least another possession check should be required, and it might just rend the Horror's spirit and do damage rather than slay them, depending on the Horror.
>>52774545These are dope. I'll add them to the PDF. Should have something together in a bit, just working out how to structure things and adding the new speculated abilities and such.
>>52775212I don't want to do away with skills entirely, but creating an exhaustive list of skills might be hard. It might be good to have skills instead work like a feat/perk system, with an example being:>Thievery ProficiencyYou get +5 to Grace checks involving lockpicking, pickpocketing, etc.
>>52775242That's acceptable as a substitute for the slaying part of Enthrall. I figure that more dangerous they are, the harder it is to enthrall, keep control and rend their spirit. It's possible to Enthrall a Corpse Giant, it's just a difficult task on the Soulbinder's part.
Working on adding some of the proposed spell and class ability info, just wanted to get a new version with the race info up.
>>52776100nice dubsMove to change the name to Slugfolk? Slug people is a little weird.Don't know what we should call Mushroom people though, but it probably needs a change.
>>52776385Yeah, I am 1000% percent behind changing to Slugfolk and some better name for Mushroom People. D&D calls them Myconids, which is fine, but I dunno if it fits the setting properly.
>>52776414Homungi? It's Fungus Homungus for short, the name of Mushroom People because they're, well, big walking mushrooms.
>>52776509Meant Humongi and Fungus Humongus, sorry for the mistake.
Also, for anyone who's not into mechanics, feel free to post any images you like and I'll see about getting them into the PDF, too. Gotta maximize flavor.
>>52776509This is probably way too lighthearted for the setting.>>52774836I support this.
>>52776100Especially considering their Diress resistance, I find it kinda odd that the Mushmen don't get any Lore bonus.
>>52776992I discussed it a little in >>52770710, but leaving Lore out of the bonuses was sort of intentional. I envision the Mushmen being resistant to the Maze due to exposure, but not necessarily more learned about it because they're ultimately just mushrooms trying to make a living.Mechanically, this is because Lore is the biggest determiner of your base Duress, and bonuses to Lore make it possible to have your base Duress be 100 which is Bad News™.I could be convinced on a Lore bonus, it's just not currently a part of my mental model of the Mushmen.
>>52774545To build on the Speak with Dead rules in the pdf>Speak With DeadThe caster prepares a small ritual to contact nearby spirits of the deceased. While valuable knowledge can be gained from this seance, opening one's ears to the whispers of spirits does not always yield the information desired.roll 1d201: An ancient thought from an inhuman mind. +40 Duress, +2 Lore.2: A powerful secret, dredged from the depths of countless whispers and cries. +20 Duress, Gain one High-Duress spell.3: A murmur of strange advice. +15 Duress, Gain one low-duress spell.4: The spirits are quiet, just a faint whisper on the edge of the mind. +10 Duress.5: Silence.6: The spirits are restless. Ask one yes or no question in ten words and the spirits must answer truthfully. If anyone wants to help me with this, maybe make it a d10, that'd be appreciated
>>52777249Are these values before will mitigation if do than that's fine, although 1 might be a bit to dangerous.
>>52776100Just throwing out a bit of writing so we have something on the beastiesBeastmen are often the result of dabbling too much with magic, creating humans with strange deformities and mutations. Whether born or becoming a beastman, the poor soul is invariably cast out from their former society into the depths of the Maze. However, Beastmen are far more welcoming of their own kind than humans, and Beastmen tribes have sprung up a safe distance from wherever civilization can be found. The agile Beastmen make good use of their mutant gifts, and develop semi-nomadic societies that rely on speed to hunt the dangerous game of the Maze. However, exposure to the lower levels and an imperfect form leave the Beastmen more susceptible to the dark influence of the Maze.
>>52777249>>52777286This was me just throwing out ideas before I forget them, and they can totally be changed. I agree that 40 Duress is a lot, even after Will reduction.
>>52777306Thanks a ton for that. I've been trying to generate flavor for anything that I do, but I just could not work anything out for Beastmen.
>>52777249If we can come up with two more, I vote d8 to keep with the theme.
>>52777249Also, with regard to spells, we should pick a style of magic management. Vancian magic is probably out unless someone's got a compelling case, at least from where I'm standing.Magic is dangerous, an active invocation of the dark powers of the Maze. We have a natural stop in place with Duress and sanity. Low Duress blightmages are definitely closer to the academic side of things, but higher Duress leads to an ecstatic state of mind, channeling the energies of the Maze directly through them.Similarly, how do we manage the magical and quasi-magical abilities of the other classes. Point pools? Per-day, per-encounter, etc?
>>52777306>>52777339I like the idea of the Beastmen being somehow related to the crow people. Even if it's just a sparse patch of feathers or slowly more talon like hands or something to hint at a connection. The dead crow could be the result of the mutations totally taking control of motor function after the original Beastman dies. Their lemming-ish tendencies could be chalked up to a crows instincts trying to make flight work in an originally human corpse. All that being said, I think they shouldn't be strictly crow-weirdos.
>>52777489I think we had a tentative origin for the crows someplace, but that might have been scrapped and used for the Corrupted. I'm all for a new backstory for the crows, if that's the case.
>>52777463Do you mean as a way to limit spells? Like spell slots, mana, something like that?
>>52777754Yeah, basically. Just want to get a feel for how we deal with magical abilities so we can tune their effects (on the target and the caster) appropriately.
>>52771649Can classes have unique madness effects?For example, the Haunted getting a madness effect centered around Identity Issues because of the number of spirits that tend to inhabit their bodies frequently.
>>52777859Sure, write it up and we'll see if it can fit in. Or roll an 8
>>52777859If nothing else, this could fit into a neat "GM suggestions" block. I would imagine the sort of event that would provoke madness in a player would be something that could be played out in an entertaining way with the help of a good GM.
Do sentient stones in the wall fit this setting?
>>52777865Let's give this a try.>Identity Issues (Could maybe use better name?)Unique to HauntedYour body has been host to too many spirits lately, and you're losing grasp of who you are. Until you complete a specific ritual to temporarily help you remember your identity, you cannot cast spells.And if flavor text can be added to these, I suggest this.>"This reminds me of when my husband and son perished in the fires of the purge. Wait, this isn't my memory!"
>>52778040I'm glad I'm not the only one with PS:T on the brain with this setting.
>>52777339Anything else need a little fleshing out? I can try to do a little writing
>>52778165Slugfolk could use more work, and anything to flesh out the canonical elements of the setting would be awesome, especially with regard to how the races interact with the world.
>>52778202Do we have an idea on what the slugfolk are physically, like are they bipedal or just large sentient slugs?
>>52778430Nothing in canon. I gave them the Grace penalty with the notion that they were probably not bipeds, but it's all green fields right now.
>>52778450I would suggest large slugs with arms and eyes similar to pic related.
>>52778473Rolling for this (and secretly rolling for boxing gloves for Munchkin Warren's Folly).
>>52778430>>52778450>>52778473I've always assumed that they are biped, but with the appearance of slugs twisted horribly into the shape and form of a bipedal creature, so they look just plain wrong and unnatural.
>>52778499Dubs makes it canon, so biped it is. Grace penalty stays for the gross sliminess and overall badness of their bodies, then? Or does their set of abilities need reworking to fit this new reality?Also, if somebody can find an on-theme way to give them an exploitable salt weakness, that would be amazing.
Not gonna be able to post much after this, so I figure I'll just throw out all the remaining thoughts stewing in my head.I think that anything surface world should be kept very very vague. Players would all be people born into the Maze and the natural tug that forces eveyone to explore causes them to disregard anything before Warren's Folly.If anything at all is to be said about the surface world I think it could be a pretty generic uropian society prior to Warren's Folly, maybe a little Logan's Run, Hunger Games, sacrifice for the collective tyoe memes going on but overall I'd imagine that things would've been alright before the discovery and slowly affected by it afterwards.This is just coming off from listening to Hand of Doom, but I think it would be interesting for the Blightmagesnto have to continue their ritualistic use of chemicals, very similarly to heroin addiction. With that out there, I think that a chemical supply could be assummed to an extent on all Blightmages, but maybe some interesting sidequests could be opened up if a Blightmage loses their stash (and of course duress increased).I think that magic and similar stuff should not any spell slot system. I think that having to pass a Duress check of some choice should be barrier enough, considering that it could fail or seriously backfire. More powerful magics could be locked off by Lore/Will/High Duress/ Low Duress.Also, in tribute to the chan itself, I think there should be a huge hilly field completely covered in four-leaf clovers. Maybe at a d4/d8 to all rolls whilst in the area, but slowly PCs would lose their minds thinking that there is one three-leaf clover that itainting their luck.
>>52778521We could have them be invertebrates so that moving in a bipedal form is a larger challenge without bones.
>>52778521>The Slaughterhouse has crates full of salt in case Slugfolk enters its butchery
Mega link for the fancy PDF source with what I've got written so far.https://mega.nz/#!Cs0FDY6S!IhZ2yGz_cKnOb8-32royF_4SALccQxqGMaEx6CsfijYGonna have to sleep in a bit, but I'll be hyped if the thread lives. If it starts to get close, it'd be great to get it archived so we can keep a record and start it up again.I'm definitely adopting it as a pet project, so let's keep this going.If original anon (Warren?) is around, would love to hear your thoughts on what's transpired since last we heard from you.
I wanted to look into relations between the races so far I figured that the Humans and the Slugfolk would be the closest races, not sure why but they just stuck me as the two that would be working together the most. The Gluttons struck me as lone wolf due to their nature.Beastmen seemed like they would be outcasts to all because of the mutations.And last Mushroom men seemed like they would stick together in their own separate colonies.
>>52778670>The file you are trying to download is no longer availableSomething went wrong with that link.
>>52778670https://mega.nz/#!68dyWADZ!HxiQYfWPf0kXyG-e9XExr5yUs7nD6oHolLcyJKUbW0ACorrected mega link because I'm a moron.
>>52778707Should be fixed in >>52778715I left some generated files in the archive that were unnecessary, so I stripped those out in the new one.
>>52778679This is what I was thinking too. Humans don't exactly like looking at the slugfolk, but they're not as bad as beastmen and sluggos tend not to be psychotic killers, so they're alright by human standards. Gluttons are grudgingly accepted, but almost always find themselves filling the role of bouncer or some other kind of hired muscle, generally distrusted by society in Human colonies.
One suggestion for Mushroom People's name before I have to leave: Mazecaps.
>>52767201>>52761772going off the need for magical fluff, and the very cool idea of specific potential backfires to each class, wouldn't it make sense to just fluff it as the crazier you get, the easier you can think in the odd, almost otherworldly nature of The Maze? sort of like knowledge learned from life outside The Maze (low duress) vs your sanity slowly being replaced by instinctive channelings of The Maze (high duress)? As for the class backfires, the more instinctive you become, the less you care about self preservation as The Maze enthralls you?
>>52779591Oh, I like that a ton. It fits with the vague explanation I wrote in the PDF about human backgrounds being due to their being new to the Maze, so they retain stuff from their Surface lives.
>>52779591I think there was discussion that one of the reasons high Duress makes it easy to cast big spells is because the crazy state of mind is better for understanding strange concepts, like magic. This fits right in.>>52779321I like this. My vote's for Mazecaps.
>>52779616same as >>52779591I think the nature of the setting really goes well with "magic" being sort of implied, more feeling than science, while also allowing the actual science side of things to be more concrete and accessible, at the cost of being harder to pull off due to The Maze not wanting it's inhabitants to pull away from it. so making a potion via alchemy would have some sort of inherent penalty, but be more effective, than some healing spell that has a variable range of effectiveness but is easier to do
>>52779688Fancy PDF anon here. Mazecaps sounds cool to me. It'd be really cool to see something like a myconid from D&D but with crazy fractals on the cap.>>52779750Oh, that's a really cool way to conceptualize it. Like the Maze is tempting you into its dark and whimsical ways, like a fairy circle or a will o' wisp, and actively abhors the orderliness of "magic" as it's practiced on the Surface.I really like how the Maze is evolving from a place to an adversary.
>>52779750had a rough idea as soon as I posted this, what if high duress and low duress, at least in the case of magic effects vs sciences effects, operated based off die rolls vs percentages respectively? such that the aforementioned healing spell could be 1d4+whatever, whereas the more tricky to make potioncof healing would always give you back 10% of your HP? I'm a huge fan of fluff and crunch going hand in hand so excuse me if it's a shit idea
>>52779750>>52779787Isn't this against what we've been brewing so far? I thought the idea was sort of low-duress (science, medicine, survival skills) = easy + safe + weak, while high-duress (maze magic) = hard + dangerous + powerful
>>52779823I'm just spouting off ideas due to enjoying the setting, as I said in >>52779790 apologies in advance if they're shitty, I tend to focus on pure fluff and forget about making all the cool bits actually cohesive and fitting together
>>52779823I think >>52779750 has a good feel for it, except, as you rightly say, the bit about alchemy being more effective than Maze magic. High Duress healing magics will definitely be more effective than alchemy or an Anchor's abilities, but at a significant cost, and with real potential for things to go tits up in a hurry.The low Duress stuff is definitely the stuff of the Surface, where Duress is a product of exposure to the Maze. High Duress stuff is a direct product of the corrupting influence of the Maze.
>>52779874Was it ever decided if there actually was magic on the surface? I think last thread there was some talk of the surface being completely mundane (thus why they want all the artifacts from below) but I could see Surface magic being a thing.
>>52779790I think there's something interesting to work with here. Maze magic does seem to lend itself a slightly wilder (and therefore wider) range of effectiveness, so I could see that standing as a counterpoint to the exactness of a chirurgeon's science.>>52779906Nothing in canon, so by all means roll for the world. The suggestions in the last thread were that things were pretty thoroughly mundane, with some ritual magic imported from the Folly, but nothing like a wizard. That's part of why I flavored the chirurgeon as more of a hedge wizard/field medic type rather than a straight up alchemist.
>>52779906I'd figure it would be better to have the surface lean more to the technological side, so low duress builds could be better at using more technological items like say firearms while high duress might not have the mental state to wirj them effectively.
>>52779906>>52779943I guess I'll roll for the surface being mundane, just to see if I can make it official.And I really like the whole random v exact thing we have going now.
>>52779960Alas, no blessed 8. Although it seems pretty much everyone agrees that the surface is mundane, so it's at least fanon at this point.
>>52779978Aha! There's my eight!Also, I have some ideas if we want to try out a feat kind of system like >>52775265 suggested.
>>52779978Confirmed for canon.>>52779957That reminds me, we need to get a roll going for tech level. I have no strong feeling about it, but the last thread seemed to be leaning in a Bloodborne-y direction, so guns are likely on the table if people want them.
>>52779991Go for it. I was actually going to pitch something similar while I was thinking about another setting, and it'd fit the Human background stuff (so it'd be similar to the bonus feat humans get in D&D and such).
>>52779943I really enjoy the concept of The Maze being not necessarily actively working either malevolently or benevolently for the cartographers that reside inside it, but more of a vague semi sentience that seeks to inforce basic rules that usually actively oppose the rules of the surface, the closest example of what I'm getting at would be the primal forms of the 40K chaos gods, just a large collection of emotion and feeling on the cusp of sentience, which also leads to an interesting question of what would happen if the Maze fully woke up?
>>52779994Bloodborne-y would probably be the best, it fits thematically, we could try for a steampunk-ish tec level for the surface stuff like air ships. Odds are it wouldn't effect much in the maze but we could use it to figure out what settlements are like.
>>52780020The Hunger definitely has a vibe of being the Nyarlathotep to the Maze's Azathoth, so I like that characterization. Then again, it's so much worse because at least most people don't *live inside* Azathoth.
>>52780020I'm gonna start namefagging since my posts are getting rambly, I'm >>52779591>>52779750>>52779790>>52780020but to continue my last post, I think you could stretch the idea of the Maze vs the Surface as two semi sentiences constantly vying to overtake the other enough to fully reach a more evolved being resembling a diety, sort of a constant ebb and flow that most likely won't ever end
>>52780087Oh, shit, get your banjos, boys, it's time for Dueling Demiplanes!
>>52780087If this is the case should we leave open the possibility for more sentiences or would they be the only 2?
>>52780150well, having 8 of them would nicely explain why it's a powerful number, what with 8 different voices subconsciously prying at you, and would provide a twist to a traditional pantheon, but at the same time I could see the argument for the neatness of two direct opposing forces
>>52780182Alternatively, the Surface represents duality. Night and day, good and evil. The usual boring complementary bits of the universe we know in our world.The Maze is something different, alien. The Maze isn't dualistic, but octalistic. What does that mean from a mortal perspective? Not a damn clue. But there's something infinite and deep and powerful about 8s down there.Oh, and then the pretty facile 8 -> ∞ thing.
>>52780182The other six could still exist but from the perspective maze it seems like the maze and surface are the only two maybe have the planes par off as rivals and the surface and maze are one of those rivalries. The other six might leak in a bit hear and there but it's not intentional.
>>52780087While I like the idea, it sort of implies the Surface is inherently magical, and I'm not too keen on that. Perhaps instead of a magic influence, the surface has a...science influence? Like it tries to enforce a nice, neat laws of physics onto everythingMaybe surface clockwork devices could be used to counter magic, since they force rational laws on things?
I dunno. This seems like a lot of cosmology that doesn't serve the setting. The Maze is already complex and alien and is certainly never going to let you go. It's representative of the wild and forgotten ways, the Lovecraftian deep chaos on which an uncaring universe turns. The Surface is where man imposes his will on the world, but in the Maze the relationship is reversed.
>>52780234I love this. Above, there is right and wrong, but down in the depths of the Maze... morals become divided eightfold, your head is constantly being pulled into directions you didn't know existed and the horrific part is that you're starting to understand it. Even if the Cartographers could get out, even if they went back, fitting in would literally be like pushing an octagonal block into a linear hole
>>52780018I can't say no to the 8.Does selecting a class give a stat boost? Say, if I made a Faithful, would that increase my base Will? And if I chose to be a Mazecaller, would that tack on a Lore bonus?This is just speculation on the crunch of picking a class, so I can build from there.>>52780331I think this anon has it right
>>52780331see >>52780234>>52780304I didn't mean to imply any sort of magic at all. To me, neither the low or high duress fueled actions are inexplicable, depending on perspective. If you ask an insane person how to operate a stove, they very well might think it's magic. If an insane person asked you how to summon a spirit being and force it in a physical host, I'm sure you'd think it was magic. What I'm getting at is that it's two perspectives constantly trying to force themselves on the other, and the pawns that are the cartographers getting caught in the middle, with the science and cool logical mindset of the low duress individuals failing to grasp the insane and illogical mindset of the high duress individuals, and vice versa
>>52780334Right. That's what I was getting at in >>52780331, too. You might be thrown into the Maze a prisoner, but if you ever have a chance to make it out you probably won't even understand what it means to be free of the Maze.The 8 thing ought to be omnipresent, but basically invisible. Little bits of synchronicity, shared elements, weird coincidence.A GM should be able to explain 20-50 distinct areas with this underlying theme before players even notice there's something weirdly familiar about all this. The 8s are just a fact of the world. Constructing mythos around a concept intentionally is Surface stuff. In the Maze it's just how things are.>>52780401Those are both me. :D
>>52780401That is, >>52780417, >>52780331, >>52780234 are me.
So how should we set up settlements? I would assume that they are sparse and hard to set up with the nature of the maze but should there be any major ones that would be noteworthy to any cartographer.
>>52780417I love the idea of a characters attention being pulled in so many directions it isn't even noticeable, sort of like a mental background noise that fucks with the subconscious
>>52780463Maybe it's like radio distortion and the higher the duress the more static you start hearing but instead of static it's the madness of the maze burning a hole into your subconscious.
>>52780461Well, Slugfolk and Men live in the same settlements, and tend to congregate in more 'sane' places, like the hub city (some anons have called it Warren's Gate, where the Surface and Maze meet) and other large settlements. Beastmen and other mutants are pretty much nomadic and live in small tribes, so they wouldnt have any landmarks. Mazecaps definitely form at least small cities and villages. And of course there are loads of cults, each with their own small cult hamlet out in the tunnels.
so does the idea of an overarching conflict of perspective between the logic of the surface and the alien insanity of the Maze sound good to everyone?
>>52780534So how do larger settlement circumvent things like the hunger? Are they just not deep enough for it to be an issue are did they find something to help?
>>52780580I dunno if it's really necessary that it be conflict. It's just a way for mortals to conceptualize the difference between the places. I vote to leave it vague for increased wild mass guessing by players in the setting. No one's ever satisfied without an answer, and it'll drive them crazy if all they get is cryptic smiles from the GM. Double points because the GM doesn't have any answers, either.
>>52780580Well, I like the -concept-, but I don't think it will have much place in the current fluff. The game is about the Maze, and while the Surface is there, the players will never go there, and rarely interact directly with the Surface or surfacefolk
>>52780580The maze should be only semi-sentient at most, and I don't think that the surface should be an aspect. The Maze is more like an infection, a cosmic parasite of the world itself, mimicking the surface in it's own chaotic, alien understanding. Also, a reminder that the very first post (if it even matters at this point) said that the setting was an infinite cave and an infinite city, which became more and more horrifying and twisted as one progressed deeper.The mazes "will" isn't in any actions, but in the horrors that populate it, the strange architecture that make it up, and the alien knowledge that it gives to those who are corrupted by it.
>>52780601The canon says this on the Hunger> An invulnerable collective of devouring souls claimed by the embodiment of Hunger itself. The collective stalks the cave, existing solely to hunt and devour anyone who dare wander down there. Attempting to fight the collective is no different from suicide, and players are encouraged to drop everything they're doing and run if they know that the collective is approaching their position. When it devours people, their souls are added to the collective forever. Legends has it that if the collective is fattened too much, it will eventually escape to the surface.So likely the latter.>>52780657This.
>>52780637Intentionally vague is the way to go. Even if we decide it for ourselves, not ever having an "answer" is the best fit for the setting.
>>52780601>>52780681Well, the Hunger is totally alien to a normal person. Its name is representative of that, the only thing a human can recognize in this being is hunger, everything else the being is either doesn't exist or doesn't make sense, so it is Hunger.This kind of impossible being shouldn't ever come near the Surface, so Warren's Gate is probably safe. Deeper settlements probably have vigilant defenders, magical charms, are good at hiding, or just have plain dumb luck (but within the maze, is anything ever just good luck?)
>>52762479>>52762445It was unanimously stated that it was around late 1700 to 1800 where firearms were around but the landscape will determine what kind of weapons will be useful. Is it small tunnels branching out into larger ones for close quarters fights and bows (because guns will deafen people in these settings) or will it be an 18th century city (bloodborne architecture) of varying heights from 2stories to 60stories (either nearly touching the roof of the underground or still far from it) and stretching out for miles in every direction essentially preventing a consistent line of sight (to make cartography a struggle and not simply "climb to tallest belltower and map area with a spyglass")
>>52780601The weirder shit is magical, and can only be sustained deeper into the maze. Most organized settlements should be close enough to the surface that it doesn't bother them, or nomadic enough to keep away from it.Alternatively, the Hunger could be drawn to fading life, so that a vibrant community would be of no interest to it.
is there a discord for this? someone should get on that
>>52780717I think it's both. The Maze is a labyrinth of small tunnels, branching in loads of directions. The real landmarks (although there are some in the tunnels, especially larger tunnels) like the Lake and hamlets and such will be in larger caverns, which might have serious architecture or ruins.
>>52780580>>52780675> Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes."Azathoth: The Cave" is how I imagine the Maze.>>52780717I don't see anything in the original PDF or in the last thread that makes tech level unanimous.http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/52746652/If there's something in the first thread that contradicts that, I'm happy to have tech canon, but there are only two mentions of guns in the last thread and no 8s.
>>52780717We could have like mentioned before a clockwork level of tec so that we have an excuse to add in some form of electricity so that there could be light sources that are not just torches and lanterns.
>>52780717Agreed. Gas lamps and basic industrial tools seem fitting and neccesary, but guns themselves should probably be discouraged. After all, do you really want to make that much noise, not knowing what lurks in the dark?
>>52780763Steampunks get out. If we're gonna have eldritch horror, you best believe it's all lanterns and torches and shit.
>>52780759I don't think there's a canon, but people seem to like the tech setting being described, and I haven't seen any posts to the contrary.>>52780775>>52780763Lanterns and torches sounds good, maybe gas lighting for more permanent settlements like the Gate. Deeper down no one has the time, money, or expertise for any kind of advanced technology.
>>52780785It's possible to have both pic related is a good example.
>>52780775In the cities near the gate, perhaps, but I can't fathom how you'd get gas lines much further than that.>>52780803I dunno. I'm iffy about guns, if only because the nature of the Maze seems at odds with complex technology. I could see defensive forces near the Gate having access to guns, but how's a tunnel-dweller getting gunpowder and bullets and such? Do the mechanisms even work properly in the deeper parts of the Maze?
>>52780803Doesn't technology break down further into the maze? Maybe past the opening, nothing past Industrial era works. Past Warren's Gate, gas lights and pocketwatches are the highest tech. Once you get out into the nastier areas, fire is your best and only friend.
FEATS!>Medical ExpertiseSomewhere along the line you learned to sew up wounds, bind and set bones, and use flame to prevent rot, and with it the calm under pressure necessary for emergency treatment. Duress is counted as 10 lower when making checks involving wound treatment.>Hard-HeadedWhile some might consider weak wits a curse, your slow-to-move mind resists new ideas. Your base Duress value is calculated as 3*Lore - 2*Will.More to come.>>52780803>>52780853>>52780857These anons seem to be operating on the same wavelength. Sounds good enough for canon to me.
>>52780857How about deeper in the maze magic could be used for a light source but at the downside of possibly attracting unwanted attention.
>>52780908Ah, meant to add that for Hard-Headed characters, Lore gains are halved, rounded up.
>>52780908Based Feats!Anon with the multi-canon 8s.Tech level is roughly Industrial Era near the Gate, breaking down pretty quickly as you go deeper into the Maze.I really dig those feats, too. Great flavor, great mechanics. Hard-headed is especially good without being wildly overpowered.
>>52780759I think the tech level can vary depending on the time that a campaign is set in the Warrens. If it is just being established then it would be haphazard buildings and a wall as the hub with a 1600s tech level but if it's after the Warrens have generated some trade and allure then a larger city-hub and more prevalence of 1800s tech would make sense.>>52780763Yeah, the logical thing would be to have some level of electric lanterns because a city hub with thousands of torches and fires would burn up all the clean air and oxygen pretty quick. Maybe a magic or mechanical light source would work?>>52780775Maybe steam powered crossbows or longbows is an 1800s compensation for guns so the light, sound and smoke discharge is minimal.
>>52780947This is an infinite magical Maze prison and you're worried about burning up all the oxygen? You're way overthinking. Also, clean air is not a concern when the world is trying to kill you.Crossbows are still going to fail outside the major cities, probably especially if they're steam-powered.
>>52780857>>52780853>>52780803Tech ceasing to function as you go further into the maze makes for interesting battle mechanics like having a misfire in a crucial situation turning from the PC's ambushing a roving monster into the PC's running for their lives once their surface weapons break mid-battle. This could be a useful first encounter where the PC's think they've got their weapons to help them then they break apart in their first encounter forcing them to rethink the maze.
>>52781018Oh, I do love a teachable moment that breaks the party rifleman's heart (not to mention his gun). Based 8s again.
>>52781041Depending on how lethal we want to make things a gun misfire would lead to worse than a broken heart.
>>52781059Just my two cents, I think things shouldn't be lethal as much as -impactful-. A terrible blow from a monster won't kill your character, but it will leave a pretty serious wound, and if your Chirurgeon fails his throws you might actually die. Otherwise, you're going to end up with a wicked scar. Similarly, if you get hit by a powerful curse magic, you won't die, but you might suffer from a debilitating curse that you'll have to work around until it can be removed. As a last example, a backfire on a potent spell or sanity check won't kill you, but they'll lead to mutations and permanent psychological quirks like the OCD chart posted earlier in the thread.I like the feel of this, and it'll make veteran characters feel all the more badass with all the scars and horror stories they've collected. Hopefully the players will feel badass too, and a character death will feel impactful when it actually happens, instead of lolrollanewone
I know I'm a tad late, but I'm thinking about crunch here.Beastmen should be able to pick a minor mutation as a permament boon. For class abilities, I like the idea of the same things working differently depending upon duress. A warrior's defensive stance at low duress becomes a magical ward at mid duress, which becomes the armor sustaining the broken body past its limits at high duress.In the same way, mutations should change in effect.Eyes: Basic dark vision>semi-magical third eye >dozen eyes+paranoiaDouble jointed: climb bonus>increased reach>animalistic speed and poiseAppendage: prehensile tail/tentacle>usable as weapon>viscious whip, bearly controllableMouth: sharp bite>resitance to/compulsion for strange foods>monster jowls, feeding frenzy, canabalism as healingEars: keen hearing>comprehend languages>schizophrenia/spiritual guidanceClaws: bonus towards tools>built in lockpicks/weapons>no weapons, too busy slashingSkin: natural camaflouge>defence bonus>amorphous formBlood: poison resist>internal regulation>venom blood (painful for everyone)Suggesting that skills, traits or feats be renamed "Knacks". Just seems fitting.
>>52781173I like this mutation chart a lot, and it's good because we haven't really discussed mutations. And I support Knacks as a name. I'm not entirely sold on a skill changing depending on Duress, since it might be hard to lay out for every skill, so maybe it's just for some class skills?
>>52781145I mean, I put a lot of work into my CoC characters, and every one that dies is a big deal. Survival isn't measured in scars and horror stories for them, it's measured in paranoia and the knowledge that something horrible is lurking in the periphery of their vision and waiting to kill them.Lethality means you need to be smart, even if you're the dumb bruiser. If you fail to learn the lessons that the shallow parts of the Maze try to teach you, you *will* die. If you want to do something amazing, you need to be prepared for that thing to blow up in your face and burn your soul out.
>>52781223Exactly for the rifle example odds are the rifleman would have noticed it becoming less reliable as they move through the maze if it gets to the point where it literally explodes because of misfire they has no one to blame but themself.
>>52781201Thank you, and I agree that scaling features will lead to a lot of book keeping, and won't work for everyone/everything.>>52781145This is a good philosophy. Surviving the maze is possible, but being unchanged isn't. Works well with the idea of Desperation as well. Characters should survive, but become warped as they traverse the Folly.>>52780917Magic becomes more convenient further in (down? Deeper?), especially as technology fails. Eventually it's somewhere between a compulsion and a necessity as the maze affects you.>>52780908Looks great anon, let's keep it up
>>52781271I guess I just don't see the utility of guns to the party unless you plan to spend a lot of time near the Gate. Early on, sure, but as the average Duress of the party goes up, things are going to turn savage pretty quickly, and anything more complicated than a longbow will likely stop working altogether in the tunnels.
Can someone catalogue/summarize the stuff we've said so far? We're coming up with a lot of good things, and hate to lose them.
>>52781324Just trying to find a way for the longbow to make sense in 1800's. It wouldn't make sense if a musketeer were going into the first encounter with a gun and ditching the gun to go into the next encounter with a longbow because by nature he wouldn't have trained with a longbow. Could he just retain the muskets damage dice and proficiency for a bow, saying that it's a "Warrens Bow" forged from forsaken metals in the tunnels.What other ranged options does a ranger have that's comparable to 1800's tech?
>>52781441Metals and materials in the maze are less likely to cease functioning, but much much harder to obtain and work with, and cannot emulate high technology. Harpoon gun or crossbow seems like a good alternative to the rifle. Hell, some maze items may even be magical under high enough duress.>See this sword? It cleaved through three crows in a row down by the archives. What? Just a knife?! Well it was a sword down there, dammit!
>>52781441> It wouldn't make sense if a musketeer were going into the first encounter with a gun and ditching the gun to go into the next encounter with a longbow because by nature he wouldn't have trained with a longbow.The "lethal setting" part of me calls that "insufficient research".That said, none of the classes say anything about the type of weapon you use, if any. Combat isn't anything close to fleshed out, so that's something that could be addressed.But calling a gun a bow doesn't magically make it a bow.Surface tech is 1800s, but any nontrivial distance into the Maze is going to drop you further and further back. Longbows aren't even that old-fashioned, comparatively (late 1600s still in wide use). If you want to be really pedantic, longbows were still in use during WWII.Thinking laterally may be a better option here. What do the people deeper in the Maze do when they need to attack something at a range? Is that something that even occurs to them, or is something that you want to keep distance from something you'd rather not engage with at all?
>>52781440I'm cataloguing and writing it to the PDF as I have time, and this thread ought to get archived if it falls too many pages down so we can pick it up again later.
>>52781494This idea seems neat. Technology fails in the Maze, but mundane items take on deeper properties as the Maze rewrites their composition.
>>52781528Perfect, thank you.Is everyone good with our setting so far?>Surface is ~1800's, mundane>Technology ceases funtioning further into the Folly>the maze may-or-may-not have a subtle, omnipresent "will">8's are important, but bearly dicernable. See >>52780417>Humans get backgrounds (criminals) and get along okay with Slugmen (bipedal, but slimy).>Mazecaps, Gluttons and Beastlies stick more to their own communes, cults and tribes respectively>loose race stats >>52770710 >>52770928>Duress (d100) and Despiration (wip) mechanics >madness effect >>52771649 >>52771996>speak with dead >>52777249>classes >>52767950>rough abilities >>52772902 >>52781173>feats (knacks?) >>52780908And probably a whole bunch of other juicy goodness I missed. Just trying to keep it all together.What should we address next? What needs more fleshing out?
>>52781509>But calling a gun a bow doesn't magically make it a bow.I meant to say that the bow/crossbow he will use can just use the damage and proficiency dice from his musket if really needed.>Thinking laterally may be a better option here. What do the people deeper in the Maze do when they need to attack something at a range? Is that something that even occurs to them, or is something that you want to keep distance from something you'd rather not engage with at all?I'm thinking of a more "every combat encounter will be something ambushing something else" instead of a "groupA notices groupB and they both charge" because the nature of the maze suggests running or planning will be more advantageous that brute-forcing an encounter.
Alright anons, I need some ideas here. Not everything in the maze is deadly, right? What's the point of having eldritch monstrosities if I can't cuddle with one?! Lets think up some pets.So far we have>Scribe spiderChews and makes nests out of paper, ejects ink-glue instead of webs. Cartographers' best and worst friends.>Olm pupaeThey're harmless until they grow up, and apparently are alchemetically useful. Just keep away from their mothers.>Chatter boxesAll eyes and ears, these mimicking critters are great for remembering shopping lists and taking notes, assuming that they don't drive you insane with the occasional eldritch soliloquy.>Pet rockYes, i know it's just a rock, but I found it "out there" and I swear it was moving. And it's food bowl is always empty, so...>Flicker-fliesFeeding off of mushrooms, these large grubs can provide decent lighting if kept properly fed. Although especially bright in coccon form, the adult moths may prove difficult to keep an eye on.>Something something venus-fly-mushroom that eats stuff and gives you shrooms.I'm too tired, and should have stopped posting an hour ago. I'll continue making stupidly long lists in the morning.
I'm making an imgur of background images to put on the Handbook if pdfAnon wanted to look at them.https://imgur.com/a/2qDXj>>52781941Maybe a kind of skeleton/dog or rock/dog which is just a small 4legged creature that occasionally wanders out of the deeper more magical parts of the maze and bumps into settlements?
Hey guys, what if the Corpse Titans have hierarchies? And a king?
>>52782205nah, kinda goes against the concept. But a beast king sounds mildly fitting given that we'll probably have to introduce a big bad at some point.
bump because I don't know how to archive.
>>52783742also bumping because I also dont know how to archive
>>52783742>>52783830Bump with content! Throw out Knack ideas, good images, slugfolk fluff, anything.>>52782205This guy could work really well as a big bad, even if he's totally mad/not even sentient. A cult will inevitably spring up around his feet, seeking to do his will (as they interpret it)
Bit of an idea for a possible location and possible boss working off the whole tec breakdown in the maze. If the faithful are anything to go off of, there be gods down there. What if there was some area out there that was basically the realm of some god who took the tech of a whole mess of random.surface junk that fell down and twisted it to its will, making a sort of dark foundry. A place wear terrible automatons lugging huge guns roam, blasting at anything living that dare tries to distract the god from its work. Essentially, some deep one became obsessed with the tech of the surface and is using it as maybe a power play or something. The players are exposed to just how lethal and twisted the industrial world could be.
>>52784248I like the idea, but this kind of encounter should be closer to surface level depending on if the campaign you're running will abide by the "Tech fails as we go deeper" rule. If I ever adopt Warrens Folley it'll be changed so that there are 'dead zones' where tech will cease to function at random intervals.>I fire my gun at the carrion>As you pull the trigger the air turns sharp and the taste of ozone assails your throat>Your shot doesn't ring out as expected, but absently clicks>The mechanical lantern held by the Mazeborn flickers and fades as the carrion closes in...It would be an interesting encounter mechanic knowing that your lifeline can break at any time, promoting the party members to only scarcely rely on surface-tech.
Posting this as inspiration for a possible mid-level or end-level big bad.Maze King, Mountain King? Maybe it's a giant statue in the relative center of the cartographer's maps and the nature of the maze begins animating it.
>>52784248Making it a 'god' might not fit exactly, but I could see this working. Maybe bits of technology just end up in the Foundry because...that's how the Maze works. Technology inevitably ends up in great heaps in the Foundry, for some unknowable purpose
>>52782205>>52784160Well, the Corpse Titan is kinda their king, even if Corpse Giants instinctively want to assimilate any and all corpses they find, including each other.
>>52784366There was a suggestion in the previous thread about a 'Citadel of Shackles', the home of 'The Shackled King'. He sounds like something akin to your suggestion>A decorated citadel of impossible heights, this haunted citadel is rumored to be the home of 'The Shackled King'. Little is known of The Shackled King, but recovered accounts of the Buried City's history imply that he may have been a ruthless tyrant. The city's residents, fed up with the tyranny, started an uprising and, after successfully stripping The Shackled King of both his power and his true name, shackled him deep within the darkest depths of the Citadel's dungeons, cursed to see the city he ruled over prosper without him for all eternity.>After numerous incidents since The Shackled King's banishment, the citadel was declared cursed and thus abandoned by the Buried City. Regardless of its true story, it's since become breeding grounds for horrors. Curiously, horrors originating from there seems to be far stronger than their peers and appears to be clad in shackles. The citadel itself has also been decorated with massive shackles, likely influenced by The Shackled King. Some has reported that if you listen closely, you can hear screams, laughter and yells of rage from somewhere deep within the Citadel, but few has dared to investigate the condemned castle.
>>52784673Continued because the post reached the limit.>the Shackled Horrors also act radically differently. Not only do the Shackled Horrors turn on their own kin if they're unshackled, but they will even work together with Shackled Horrors of different kinds. Are they somehow dominated by The Shackled King?>The Citadel of Shackles, should any cartographers dare enter its halls, will likely try to turn them into Shackled Servants in service to The Shackled King. Should they be shackled for too long, their minds will be completely wiped, replaced solely with a single minded desire to SERVE THE KING, ASSIST OTHER SERVANTS, SLAY ALL ELSE>Little, if anything, can cure anyone who's shackled into the king's servitude. If there's a cure, it comes with a grave price
Alternatives for "Grace" as a stat name.haste, flow, finesse, vigour, verve
>>52784687Vigor / VigourSounds misleading but I like that and finesse.
>>52784673>>52784687>The Shackled King is a horrifically powerful Soulbinder with an impossible mastery of >>52774836I can see that.
>>52785211This fits with our theme of monsters being corrupted Humans>>52784893I like finesse
>>52784366>>52785211What about five distinct kings, each related to a specific class?
>>52785332Sounds like a possibility but we don't want to contain an infinite city scape by saying there are 5 Shackled Kings. Trying to put numbers to the infinitude of the Warrens can deflate the setting by saying "You can explore far enough to find the 5 different classes of kings"I'm not saying it a bad idea, it's alright for a boss encounter but the existence of only 5 or 5 different ones might not fit the setting so far.
>>52785404Fair points. We can consider them five dangerous and powerful but notable entities existing somewhere in the Maze. There's many dangerous and powerful entities, these five just happen to be notable enough.
>>52785428Yeah, I was just worried about the proximity of the entities. Saying they're within any kind of walkable distance when you're dealing with infinity renders the infinitude of the city moot. I'm sure we'll find a way around it though.
another application of duress could be that a human trying to repairing his gun will suffer terribly at high duress and when firing he has to roll higher than his duress or its a misfire. This could be decreased by adding strange maze materials like horror-bone or maze-metal to the party's weapons so they don't suffer as bad when they venture into the far depths. >Low duress = Alchemy, Science, Mechanics, Surface-Stuff>High duress = Arcane energies, Maze magic, Unique abilities
pdfAnon here. Working on an update with some of the new mechanics and fluff, gonna try to add some stuff about setting along with the images posted so far to give it all some flavor.
>>52786362Im Feats!Anon, I'll try to come up with more Knacks. Any idea how many we'll let the players take to start/how many they get for leveling up?
>>52784893I like haste. Gives a bit of panicky undertones
>>52786516Depends on the power from them really. 5e gives some really strong feats every 4levels. So from the strength of the ones we've seen so far, maybe 1 or 2 at startup and 1every 3 levels or a stat point increase?
>>52786362https://imgur.com/a/2qDXjJust incase you wanted some art for handbook.
>>52785894This duress check should probably extend to all technology exceeding a level that depends upon where you are in the Maze.>>52786516I'd say two or three to start.
>>52785211What if the shackled king doesn't physically exist anymore? Instead, his enthrallment is so strong and widespread that he now exists as a hive mind, simultaneously existing withing all of the shackled horrors. The Shackled Citadel is where he (it?) keeps it's most powerful and numerous force, so that he has a virtually 'real' presence there.You can kill him, but you can't kill all of him. The threat never dies.
For anyone else looking to contribute, some of the factions are pretty light on content, and any writing on the topic would be much appreciated.
>>52786639I'll do some write up on the "smithy" faction in the morning. Kilnsmen i think they were called, I didn't create their faction though so take my word as fanon.Also can someone make sure that the thread gets archived because a few of us don't know how to do it.
If the thread slows down sufficiently that it needs archiving, go tohttp://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/requestinterface.htmlPut in the Thread ID 52761617Title Warren's Folly Planning Part 2Description: Something about race and class mechanics, setting, etc.Tags: Warren's Folly, game design, and anything else you think is appropriate
>>52786589>Players enter the citadel, determined to put an end to the shackled horrors.>after enduring the fortress, they burst into the throne room>The massive open room is empty, except for a single, vacant throne in the center (or a shriveled corpse, bound to it by chains)>The second story has a wrap-around bacony, filled with rows and rows of motionless horrors>a hundred broken voices speak in unison, introducing themselves as the shackled king
>>52786792My main worry with this is that it humanizes the Horrors. According to theme, they should be inscrutable, with an alien mindset indescribable in mortal terms. I don't know that this lends itself to conversation, least of all "spooky posturing".
>>52761617Every game has to include Gaston from Beauty and the Beast as an NPC.
>>52786639WISE strikes me as some sort of feudal effort lead by a bunch of ignorant bureaucrats on the surface. Like they hear of some of the dangers but just ignore it by saying that the dark is just playing tricks on them. Although this would really depend on how much of the nature of the maze in known to the surface world.
>>52786857No one rerolls like Gaston.
>>52786850Someone in constant contact with the minds of horrors would almost certainly be insane and practically indistinguishable from a horror. However, there would still be a remnant of a human mind from the shackled king themselves.
>>52786903That sounds more like WISE and more like the Ministry (origionally described as a "bumbling bureaucracy").WISE is an off shoot, which broke away from the main government to pursue more powerful points of interest being willfully ignored by the Ministry. They're sort of like the CIA of weird maze shit to the Ministry's government.
>>52761617Consolidate into the appropriate worldbuilding General please, you are occupying valuable space.
>>52786850The king himself is twisted from contact with so many horrors, and vastly spread out. It is only in very great concentrations (i.e. the Shackled Court) that any shard of origional humanity is revealed. Otherwise they are just horrors that play on a different team. This is definitely not a fact that should be known by anyone, unless the party discovers it themselves. Trying to possess/control a shackled horror should have some negative feedback, as well.
>>52786995Ok if that's the case whats really the end goal for WISE and are they malevolent in their goals?
>>52787042Consolidate into the appropriate dick-eating general, please, you are consuming valuable oxygen.
>>52786639I came up with the Radian March, so I'll write something up later if needed. I also came up with WISE, but it seems to have gotten away from me a bit. Other suggestions are welcome
>>52786956>>52787048I feel like that if NPCs/Monsters had a Duress stat, the King's Duress would break the limit and be like 120/100 or higher.
>>52787310"Human" NPCs should have a duress stat and the Shackled King's should be 120. However, horrors should not.
House Clarion anon here. Busy at the moment but in about 2 hours I can start writing more fluff for it
>>52786792I can see a scenario where the party comes across >>52784366 and fights it, thinking that it's the Shackled King.Turns out that it was merely a shackled Corpse Giant all along. It even went through the trouble of getting clothing.
>>52787256>Radian March>obsessed with measuring all aspects of the maze with oddly scaled protractors.
>>52787199The origional goal was protection of the colonies and surface from some of the weird shit that was appearing. This causes them to start researching phenomena, crestures and objects to better understand and protect against them. Eventually, they begin hoarding objects and trying to push the boundaries of powers and magic available in the Folly. While this is done "for the safety of the people", that's become a secondary goal for them. They seek to prevent anyone else gathering potentially dangerous powers by keeping it all for themselves. While it isn't the obvious or main goal, many of the higher ups have their own agendas for power, even believeing that they can harness the powers of the maze for themselves. They might ask the players to bring them certain artifacts and do field research, or even "aquire" worthy research subjects regardless of original owners. They have a rivalry with the quickly growing Underworld Express, who's quickly expanding knowledge, power and traversal threatens their monopoly in the Folly.
>>52787828Oh, shit, is this canon, now? Hahaha.
>>52788706As the guy who came up with the march (and made the typo) I am fully in favor of allowing a very confused branch of wandering architects as a random encounter.>Healing? No, you must be confused, we just do measurements.8's be praised?
>>52788706It's entertaining, but it doesn't have to be canon>>52787918I like to imagine WISE, even though they hoard technology, are the most benevolent of the organizations, or at least they're the least malevolent, and they're the patrons of the Cartographers
>>52788983>>52788993Maybe we'll save the Radian March for Munchkin's Folly.
>>52788993They come from an inherently good place (in my mind), but they felt the need to break off from the ministry and protect the masses from weird shit, or even knowing about some of it. Definitely benevolent as a group (although possibly heavy-handed), but there is room for a few secretly sinister individuals.They also have deeper outposts to research (or exeperiment with/on) some of the more twisted phenomena, which may be seperate from the main sectors.
Hopefully pdfanon posts before the thread gets archived. Is he still around?
>>52789372Yeah, here, just at work. I'll crank something out in a bit here and get it posted before it gets archived.
Is Radiant March anon around? Just wanna get a blurb for the faction and I don't have anything in my notes.
>>52789997Faction, location, race, and class information updated.Working on updating the class features based on discussion in this thread. I'll archive with the next post if anyone want to spin up a new thread.
>>52789928Gimme a bit, I wrote it up by hand, and I'm typing it out now. Mobile is slow, and I'm in class. I'll have it in about 30 mins.
>>52790274PDFanon here.Thread is archived.http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/52761617/If anyone starts a new thread before this one dies, just link it here, otherwise I'll start one when I get out of work and see y'all on the other side.>>52790304No worries, it can wait till the next thread if need be.
Oh, also, in future I'll also post mega links with updated PDFs and source files, because sup/tg/ doesn't archive the files directly.
>>52790334The Radiant March>HistoryIt began as a volunteer force formed to push back against the horrors of the Maze. Although unofficial, it recieved support in the form of recruits and supplies during the early days of expansion. Meant to be a conquesting force to clear the Folly for settlement. With the realization that there was no coming back from the underground, and that eliminating the horrors was impossible, surface support dwindled until the March was all but forgotten as a failed crusade.>ProgressRealizing that the war could not be one, but believeing themselves of vital importance to humanity, the Radiant March was changed by the maze (as all things are) and adopted a role of defenders. Setting up forts and strongholds at critical points, the March defends settlements and passageways from what threats they can handle, even sending out the occasional raiding party to eliminate potential threats. A staunch hatred for the denizens of the maze developed, but their lack of outside support necessitated adapting to the enviornment. Their goals are focused on fighting the horrors, and they are otherwise uninterested in societies.>NowMost of the members of the March are naive recruits, grizzled veterans, or dead. Their hatred still exists, but a mentality of "for the greater good" has emerged, which is especially evident in their medical practices [See the 731st medical corps]. Although non-pure subraces are looked down upon, changed races can gain favor by proveing themselves valuable members in the war against the horrors. Hypocritically, many of the more experienced members have been altered by their campaigns, often using slain horror parts or maze materials to sustain them. Medical 'help' is offered to all, but the process and results are often equally terrible and costly. Disliked/unproven people are just as likely to be used as test subjects, and only trusted/valuable members recieve the best healing, although still with gruesome side effects.
>>52791220Thanks. I'll make sure it ends up in the next thread. Good timing.
>>52791220A common practice is sending those requesting treatment on missions to gather materials and/or slay horrors, to prove their worth, help the cause and acquire rare, potent objects for the treatment.
Holy shit guys, I've been gone nearly 24 hours and this blew up clearly! What's the next planned step?
>>52792445I think we're kinda waiting for a new thread now, since this one is at page 10.
>>52792554PDFAnon here. Just got out of work, putting together a new thread now.