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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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PDFAnon here, back again for another round of building /tg/'s dark fantasy setting.

Previous thread: >>52761617

Archives of previous threads:

Mega link with the current material I've committed to PDF (updates still coming in from the last thread), including LaTeX source: https://mega.nz/#!P9tDjaTI!AD-1DtjGPHNyyRwusL2nvRMmufM6R7Ll1POTAGZPwvw

Original canon in the file attached.

Main priorities:

> Finish fleshing out the races

> Finish fleshing out class abilities

> Desperation mechanics

> Monster stats (the LaTeX template has a nice D&D style stat block, but we can tweak that if necessary)

> Equipment could use some work. Tech level is Bloodborne-y, but Surface technology more complicated than a bow is likely to fail outside the major cities

> Else. 8s and dubs, trips, etc. make canon, so go nuts.
Since there's likely to be plenty of cults, I feel like Cult of the Feast could use a new name. Followers of the Feast perhaps? Still a cult, just with a slightly different name.
Thanks for all the hard work anon, we really appreciate it.
Also, as a secondary priority, we should have a roll on putting some or all of the mechanics and/or setting under OGL so other people can pick it up down the road. Maybe we'll get lucky and some big publisher will have to put "4chan" in the OGL declaration for their book. :D
Thanks for cleaning up my mutations for the beastfolk (although I hope to see some return as class abilities).
Perhaps the minor claw mutation should be a climb advantage, so it doesn't conflict with the appendage.
Also, can you clarify what "boiling blood" is? I was thinking an 'Alien' type acid blood.

Yeah, I was just picking some easy illustrative examples. Not sure if the best option is an exhaustive list, or just good guidelines for players and GMs to make them up themselves.

The acid blood is roughly what I mean with boiling blood, but because of the somewhat more major effect, I'm imagining it turns your blood very black and visible in your veins or like it makes your skin vibrate noticeably, or something like that.
Where do we stand on The Shackled from last thread? There was a lot of fun lore being thrown around.

I also liked the idea of certain entities in the world being examples of player classes going off the deep end and turning things up to 11 (Shackled King as a hyper powerful soulbinder).

I personally like the idea of some named entities, but I think for the setting it makes sense to keep things vague rather than locking down a ton of specifics about them. CoC handles this really well, where there's a ton of lore about each of the eldritch horrors, but there's not a lot of "this guy looks like this and has these powers and likes this kind of M&Ms".

The GM (and even moreso the players) will be responsible for filling in the details of an encounter, either in the theater of the mind or in actual stats.
If someone wants to summarize it here, or just repost it, I'd be happy to accept it as canon.
Agreed. I feel like that ideally, the players should only know of the Shackled King's vague background (tyrant imprisoned inside his own throne room in the Citadel of Shackles after an uprising, is he responsible for the Shackled Horrors originating from the Citadel?) and then the GM decides how they want the party's encounter with the King and his Horror underlings to go.

Do the GM want them to encounter a giant shackled in chains?
Do the GM want them to discover that the King's soul has since departed from his original body, and it's been scattered across all of his shackled Horrors?
Is it just a decrepit old man who's barely able to put up a fight once the party find him?
Does it turn out that there's nothing in the throne room when the players enter it, and The Shackled King is actually nowhere to be seen in there except for broken shackles?
Or do the GM come up with the plot twist that the Shackled King is not even the source of the Shackled Horrors in the first place, and the real enemy is someone else?
I'm in agreement with cryptic lore>stat blocks for certain things

The Shackled are a weird subset of horrors which seem to function on the same "team", even across different speicies. This came from a description of the Shackled Citadel as a cursed location, and the Shackled King himself (although physically long since dead) persisits as a hive mind of sorts by loosely controlling horrors, which then become 'the shackled'. He is still incomprehensible, but gathering/focusing enough shackled can evoke him in a more conscious form. Someone should double check the early stuff, though. I was only there for the later half.

Yeah, I definitely like the idea of a "master controller" type Horror, indiscriminately enthralling lesser Horrors within its domain.

It opens an interesting opportunity to grant a serious special ability to the party's Haunted (especially a Soulbinder build), at the GM's discretion, and probably over the course of a mid-sized module.

I liken it to most of the longer CoC modules, where there are hardcore magics and artifacts to be won, but it take a long, desperate, dangerous adevnture to get there, and even after all that the reward might not be worth the cost.
Should have an update with some of the proposed class abilities and some additional faction info up in a while. Keep rolling, anons.
A few things I think we could use:

A rumor system, which provides and organic, casual way to spread around little bits of lore, without sounding like Plot Hooks.

Insanity/Mutation/Injury effects from things gone wrong, and ideas of what triggers them (enemies? Damage? Weird phenomena? DM discression?)

Maybe a few more named entities, if we choose to continue the theme of the Shackled king.

Actual spells and rituals, with materials and components swpped out with duress and corruption. I think we already had some good examples earlier, like Speak With Dead.

I'm not very familiar with CoC, but I imagine there is a lot of inspiration to be taken from there.

I really like the idea of a rumor system. Maybe WISE or another faction employs touts to show new prisoners — ahem — Cartographers around the settled parts of the Maze. I have to imagine they'd hear a lot of the goings on.

Agreed on the additional material, too.

As for CoC, I think a lot of the "how" part of presenting an alien and horrific world can be gleaned from both the literary sources and the RPG sourcebooks, especially as regards the vagueness of the Horrors and the greater powers of the Maze.
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>a dark fantasy setting
cool, I hope you get further than I did.

I'll read it and be back with thoughts and opinions
Make sure to read pdfanon's rulebook, original OP's pdf, and the past three threads if you're interested
Added some ability blocks for the Faithful variants based on suggestion in the last thread.

We've got some material for magic, so it'd be good to get some rolls for how this works overall. Are Blightmages the main source of spells (ctrl-F in the archive of the last thread for Flickering Flame for some examples), or are spells something any class can use, while the mage abilities are more raw applications of magical force?
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Forgot tripfag and actually attaching the PDF.
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working on it


this roughly assembled chain of thoughts isn't gonna help for much longer.
it's easier in the early stages, but you'll start needing to put stuff in order.
subsets like "enemies" "locations" "factions" etc.

start getting the greater descriptions down

>page 7 under "blightmages"
>using it to trap there prey and
I think in this case it's "their" and not "there"

so, this is a MASSIVE underworld of a forgotten lost civilization, BUT there is an over-world? or is it nothing but underworld?

what is the average light level? and what governs that in these caves?(greater elder wisps?)

>so far I am liking this, keep it up it sounds like a good setting, cant wait to see where it goes.

well shit, I guess you DID put it into a better organized format...disregard above statements regarding that...
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My understanding of the world is that there's the Surface, which plays little or no role in the actual setting except as a framing device, while the Maze is something found underground in the relatively recent past (long enough ago for settlements to have been established). The fanon I have for the Mazecaps suggests that they were lost explorers who found the Maze before the rest of the Surface.

Light level is not established canonically, but is probably up to the atmosphere the GM wants to set.

Tech level was established in the last thread: approximately Industrial Era in Warren's Gate, nearest the Surface (gas lamps, basic guns that work properly, etc.), while technology rapidly declines in efficacy as you go deeper into the Maze.

Saved. I've got some dope images to add in for flavor here and there, and more are always good. Thanks!
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>rapidly declines in efficacy as you go deeper into the Maze.
because the conditions are shit and the mechanisms can't handle it?
or in a Dresden Files/Sabriel sort of way?(because MAGIC FUCKS WITH TECH)


once that's done I'll post spooky place pics, then spooky people, etc.
I wonder if there would be unique insanity effects associated with specific horrors.

I think canon says it's more the latter. Guns misfire or fail to function at all, machinery breaks down, electricity is a no-go.

If you wanna set up a Mega dump of spooky imagery, that'd be useful, too, just to increase our pool of images. By all means post stuff in the thread, too. It'll definitely help break up the monotony of working out mechanics. :D

The threads have been leaning toward GM-driven specifics with guidelines provided by the book. I think Horror-specific madness effects could fit that model nicely. 8s and multis confirm, so if you've got any ideas, just post. Things are still very open-ended.
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I won't make a mega dump because I dont have stuff organized by spookiness and I really don't want to
Light level hasn't been talked about yet, good thinking.
There is an overworld (roughly ~1800's tech level) but it's mundane, and there is no magic there. The underworld has lethal withdrawl symptoms, so travel between the two doesn't really happen, but transportation of goods is frequent.

I'm glad to see someone taking an interest. Welcome aboard.

The way I imagine the Maze, there's probably a dull, unnatural sort of light for at least part of what constitutes a day, nowhere near daylight on the Surface, but probably something like a pale twilight sort of deal.

Major cities near the Surface have artificial lights running nearly all the time, and deeper settlements are likely to keep communal fires and light lanterns to make their streets navigable during the darker hours.
Reposting some Locales and Locations that weren't taken up as canon.

Gloomfungus Village
>An underground village that produce and harvest edible glowing fungi for cave wanderers, especially Cartographers. The fungi have an unusual property that helps regenerate people from wounds. Eating too much of the fungi in one day will cause physical mutations, however with local Old Man Conrad (also known as "Shroom Addict") being proof of that.

The Tower of the Grey symphony
>One of the first few permanent landmarks outside the settled region of Warrens Folly. A large, building of between 50-80 stories. This tower has seen a great deal of history involving the Cartographers and bears the scars of the battles between our damned adventurers and the Horrors below. As one enters the building they can hear the distant sound of music above, they feel compelled to go up the tower to find the origin. No one has yet ever gotten to the top, both due to mounting resistance from the tower's denizens and from the fact that the tower seems to gain and lose floors at random. Thia obviously makes exploration difficult.

The Deaths Library
>Sometimes the corpses great scholars or adventurers are simply too precious to bury or cremate. Instead, they are given their own room in a building that has come to be referred to as "the library". The function is the same, people come to learn from public documents, the main difference being that instead of books, they speak with the corpses of great persons throughout history.
Rerolling, with the following addition: Libraries aren't all high-minded literature and secrets of the past. Just as our libraries are full in equal measure with great works and trashy paperbacks, so is Death's Library. Those who don't know their way around are just as likely to speak to the fallen Duke they sought as they are to have their ear talked off by Chaddick Horseapple, who gives new meaning to "mindless undead".
The Curio shop
>A strange store located on the very edge of the inhabited city. It caters mainly to the Cartographers and sells artifacts to the various factions recovered from down below. It also in connected to a seemingly endless warehouse below it. Many have entered that warehouse to recover some trinket but few have ever returned. The owner is an enigma himself. Wrapped head to toe in bandages, none have seen his face. His apparent affliction has not diminished is enthusiastic, if eerie demeanor.

Archive of voices
>An amphitheater turned nest for a flock of mimicry creatures. They acquire and share sounds from around the underground, from whispered secrets to cries of agony. Many powerful secrets and stories can be heard from them, assuming that the cacophony doesn't first lead to madness.

Hall of sculptures
>A massive warehouse complex filled with a pervading silence as well as a massive myriad of statues. The various denizens of the Folley are depicted in gruesome poses, which seem to shift at the edge of one's vision. They are immovable by force, but when unobserved will silently rearrange themselves to create a shifting labyrinth of figures. Many explorers have become lost or simply vanished seeking refuge within this sprawling gallery

Twisting tunnels.
>The endpoints are the only fixed things about these passageways. Everything from the size, shape, and length of the tunnels, to their materials and orientations, is constantly in flux as one progresses. They often seem to contort and span distances in impossible ways which are never the same way twice. Even time seems to distort when inside the tunnels, and a traveler can reach his destination hours, or even days out of sync with his passage. Spanning the underground, these tunnels can serve as useful, if slightly risky, shortcuts to those wishing to quickly traverse the Folley.

Death's Library did actually end up canon. I think I've got in in the PDF.

The Maze is (probably) infinite, after all, so I'm all for adding more locations if they get rolled in. Ultimately they're just guidelines for a GM, anyway, so even if they don't end up canon, we could put 'em in a splatbook. :v
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>"stay clear of open cavern chambers boy. else the dark flyers may alight upon you and carry you away"

>page 3, right column, subheading "progress", line 1
...war could not be WON...

>dead brigade
believing themselves to be damned in advance of their own death these mercs adorn themselves with bone and skull motifs. typically dour and prone to a serious disposition on the exceptionally rare occasions when they might "loosen up" property damage is expected.

>page 5, right column, subeading "Death's Library", line 1
...the corpses OF great scholars...

>page 7, under "gluttons"
it mentions the cult of the feast but up to this point there is no mention of that.

>The underworld has lethal withdrawl symptoms,
this needs to be stated clearly.
preferably in an ominous tone early in the fluff and again in the start of any dedicated mechanics section.

>I'm glad to see someone taking an interest. Welcome aboard.
it's what /tg/ does, it's not what most people realize we mean when we say "/tg/ gets shit done"

yup, it's in there.
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Ok, so will the skill system be reflective of 5e for example.
Acrobatics = grace mod + prof bonus.
Where the Beastfolk are naturally proficient in scaling a cliff face or a building. and when making a character you can select the skills you're proficient in?
Possible skills list:
Acrobatics (grace)
Beast Handling (will/charm)
Arcana (lore)
Athletics (might)
Deception (charm)
History (lore)
Insight (will/charm)
Intimidation (charm)
Investigation (lore)
Medicine (will/lore)
Nature (lore)
Perception (will)
Performance (charm)
Persuasion (charm)
Religion (lore)
Sleight of Hand (grace)
Stealth (grace)
Survival (will)
Any suggestions to modifying the skills list is open, I've never played CoC but I think some of their skills might fit in the list quite well.

>we're still deciding between grace/haste/vigor/finesse

There was some discussion about skills being based on a sort of feat system (I think the agreed term was Knacks), where skill checks are made against your ability scores on a d100 with bonuses given by Knacks.

This saves us the work of coming up with an exhaustive skill list, and gives players and GMs more flexibility when performing actions in the Maze.

That said, no mechanics were made canon, to my recollection, so whatever the rolls decide will work.

Spookanon, got any good mushroom people pics? I'm rolling some of the stuff you've posted into the PDF, now, and it'd be good to get representative pictures for the races.
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Updated PDF with some images and some of the suggested text corrections/expansions, just to get a visual on how the images flow with the text.
PS, I know there's a bunch of stuff from the original PDF that I haven't added in, yet, so if you've got ideas about how to structure that within the rulebook (chapters, sections, whatever), just post and I'll do what I can to get it migrated in.
Reviewing material from the previous thread I've found this.
>So if skills are d100 checks, do we want to set up a system for that? Like, Average situation = DC 30 (roll above), Tricky = DC 50, Difficult = DC 70 , Impossible = DC 90?
And to do the check, roll d100 and add any relevant stats/skills.

Sounds good, it also sounds like less in-game crunch which is always good.
So are you suggested having a DC based on the difficulty, adding/subtracting your raw stat, then factoring in any relevant Knacks to see if you succeed? Sounds like a solid system to me
Is it "Warren's" Initiative, in that it was started by Warren? Or is it the "Warrens" initiative, in that the initiative had something to do with 'the' Warrens?
I support either haste or finesse. Haste doesn't exactly capture dexterity, but I think it fits the theme best
Are the low- and high-duress options class options that have to be taken? In that case they should probably have stat effects or unique abilities. I can try to write a few of those, if that's what we need.

In the last thread, I suggested maybe having Duress enter into skill rolls, as well, but it occurs to me that that might introduce unnecessary bookkeeping. It would be fitting with how Duress permeates a lot of different mechanics, though.


Canon says "Warren" is an individual, so it should probably consistently be "Warren's".


I'd vote Finesse if Grace is going to go. Both Haste and Finesse have D&D baggage in their names, but the latter better encapsulates the actual mechanical effect. I think I've seen Poise used in other settings, so that could be a good option, as well.
Have you guys figured out how to assign stats? If so we could start statting some monsters
You mean for characters? It's a 3d8 roll. We don't actually have a way to determine HP. Something like 2*Might?
I know it was intended to enter into some skill checks like medicine, which would probably otherwise be a Grace/Haste/Finesse roll, making it harder. Although, I could totally see High duress making a Might check easier, since you're driven to use every last bit of strength you have to overcome a task because of the dire situation you believe you're in.

The mechanics aren't set in stone, yet, but I think the general consensus is that the five classes represent a continuum of Duress, with the variants representing different possible builds, rather than deliberate choices. I added some example abilities to the Faithful variants.


It wasn't technically made canon, but



took some votes for how skills and stats work for players. I've been working under the assumption that stats are generated by rolling 3d8 for each stat.

Duress is then 4*Lore - 2*Will. HP hasn't been worked out, but a function of Might seems most likely.

Also, some feats from last thread

>Medical Expertise
Somewhere along the line you learned to sew up wounds, bind and set bones, and use flame to prevent rot, and with it the calm under pressure necessary for emergency treatment. Duress is counted as 10 lower when making checks involving wound treatment.

While some might consider weak wits a curse, your slow-to-move mind resists new ideas. Your base Duress value is calculated as 3*Lore - 2*Will.

Yeah, that's roughly the feel I was imagining, I just want it to feel natural rather than provoking an argument every time you need to justify why such and such roll should be treated as a low Duress usage rather than high.
Just an idea but what if HP was linked to Duress somehow? Like the damage rolled also added to Duress or something.

To clarify the dichotomy, low Duress builds (Fallen Knight, Anchor, Chirurgeon, Hearthborn, Spirit-talker) have largely mundane abilities, whereas high Duress builds will tend toward the mystical, largely due to how higher Duress makes magic more likely to succeed.
another mechanic to the hp system could be similar to 5e's death saving throws where a 1-50 is a fail and 51-100 is a save.
whenever the player drops below 0hp they will lose a permanent part of their hp-pool while also gaining a scar or something like a scar.

We should roll for HP mechanics. This is a roll for the lethal option. 0hp is dead, and recovery/resurrection options are likely extremely dangerous, if they exist at all.
Same. 0 is 0, no resurrection unless you want to become a monster
Completely agree with 0 being death, also no resurrections, the second death is impermanent, you strip the setting of most of it's horrors.

Effecting the campaign after death should be limited to speak with dead or becoming a monster controlled by the DM
Just my two cents, 0hp is bleeding out, but there's no saves involved. If a healing spell of some sort is used before the end of the round (after which you die) then you can survive, but you'll be unconscious and likely permanently damaged. This gives a sense of urgency rather than a throw-up-your-hands kind of feeling.
rolling for 0hp=dead and if a single attack deals over half of total hp it will result in a scar/duress/some other effect
rolling for this combo
Yeah this is good
Passing out for now, but I'll have the thread open overnight so I can update stuff when I get some time in the morning/around lunch. Once we've got these basic bits in canon, monsters can start getting statted out so we can get a feel for their lethality.

If somebody wants to write something structured explaining the basic stats and mechanics we've got so far, I'll add that to the PDF, as well. I'm pretty hyped about the progress we're making.

Oh, and as always, post your spookiest people, places, and things (that's what we call nouns) for glorious full-color nightmare pictures in the PDF.

>damage and hp

>general knowledge about the Maze

>resisting mental effects and Duress

Grace (haste, flow, finesse, vigour, verve
>Speed of movements and attacks, and a measure of manual dexterity

>talking power

Broad enough to allow some tweaks down the line if need be, but focused enough to get through a wide variety of encounters without faffing about figuring out what attribute's relevant.

So primary stats for each class would probably be something like this?
>Wandering Warrior: Might
>The Faithful: Will
>Blightmage: Lore
>The First: Agility
>The Haunted: Charisma

We're using d100 for skill checks, smaller dice for damage, and maybe d8 for desperation?

So if skills are d100 checks, the DCs would be (roll above), Easy = DC 15/25, Average situation = DC 30, Tricky = DC 50, Difficult = DC 70 , Impossible = DC 90?
And to do the check, roll d100 and add the relevant stat (Will,Might etc) and any bonuses from Knacks (feats) that you have.

If HP = 0 then at the start of your next turn you die, promting your allies to tend your wounds with magic/medicine. If your HP drops to 0 you suffer a scar/max hp decrease or something like that and same if you lose over half your max hitpoints in 1 attack.

Duress and Desperation soon to come
Might as well reroll
Perhaps duress should work on an scale with multiple thresholds, each one conferring penalties.
>Posting everything said about duress since thread 1. some of it may contradict but most of it was agreed as canon
Duress is a scale from 1 to 100. Successful spellcasting requires a roll below current Duress, and successful sanity checks require a roll above current Duress. This reflects the unsettling and ecstatic nature of magic in the Maze.
The relationship between Duress, sanity, and magic allows for one class to fulfill multiple distinct roles within a party according to their Duress, with certain builds favoring high or low Duress, and the transition between these being relatively fluid. Duress management would be a key mechanic to flesh out with this style of character class.
You failed your Duress check by [20/50] points, so you now [minor penalty/major penalty]
What sort of situations would provoke a Duress check? Or should Duress represent a constant penalty on skill rolls?
Suppose a human Faithful has a relatively low base Duress of 20. Terrible at spells, but able to keep a cool head in the face of Horrors. The Faithful's party descends into the bowels of the Maze, into the Bones of the Dread God. As they go deeper, the Faithful hears the whispers of their horrid patron.
Environmental Duress: +5 in the early levels, up to a punishing +20 in the bowels.
Personal Duress: As the Faithful approaches the godhead, the whispers begin to seep into their mind. In the early levels, the whispers are barely there, +1d8 duress. As they approach the sanctum, we add dice, up to a maximum of (some arbitrary god power statistic)d8.
By the time we reach the core, the Faithful is looking at 50-70 Duress, if not more. No longer the anchor for the party, they begin to discern unknown, even unknowable secrets. The sacrifice they make in stability is paid in part with increased knowledge of the Maze, and how to bend it to the Faithful's will.
I think personal duress is your own number which you need to roll under (sanity/corruption checks), while environmental duress provides a static modifier to your d100 checks based on how fucked up things (environment, enemies, company, trauma etc.) are.
Ability power scales positively with duress, while sanity checks need to be rolled under.
I think we should roll for (starting) duress as a separate stat, disregarding all values lower than 10 and greater than 80. Additionally, having high Will lessens the amount your duress increases by.
My idea of how Duress works is that it's all just one number, the sum of your personal Duress and the environmental Duress.
My understanding of magic as laid down in the last thread is that to cast a spell successfully, you must roll below Duress, and to pass a sanity check you must roll above.
Mechanically, this means that it's easier to cast spells the crazier you are (or the more stressed out and open to the whispers of the Maze).
It also follows with the overall awfulness of the deeper parts of the Maze, and managing Duress as you encounter more oppressive locations will be important to any party not composed entirely of gibbering murderhobos.
To follow that, I think it almost makes sense for Duress to cause a skill penalty, except that the skill monkey standin (the Mazeborn) is high Duress, so they might need class features that reduce or negate this skill penalty at the cost of mutations or something.
Being more knowledgeable about the Maze makes you more prone to madness, but a high Will can temper that.
Thematically, I think that makes sense. I don't think most people are going to start out at high Duress when they're new to the Maze. Like in CoC, you don't start out knowing all the horrible stuff, but as you're exposed to it you can begin to use it.
This seems like a good way to calculate it. This gives our example stat block 30-odd Duress, and with a few points in magic mushroom drugs, a baselines of solid 50 could be achieved
That makes more sense and is more reasonable, However, we probably should still have a minimum starting duress.
This sort of fits the natural progression of most characters, where (for our example) a mage is pretty squishy and questionable in combat early on, but scales quadratically once exposed to some threats.
Also keep in mind that the Chirurgeon will likely be able to produce Duress manipulating drugs and such for additional management options.
Minimum Duress depends on how dangerous madness is. Setting it to 10 means anyone will go insane at least 10% of the time on any check, but also that anyone has at least a 10% to cast a spell. That seems a bit high to me, at least on the sanity end, but I'm open to ideas. Well, at 10 Duress they won't go insane, since at most they'll fail the check by 9. All it will do is spook them and increase Duress. 10 minimum Duress seems all right.
Going along with stuff people said earlier we could have scaled results and if you fail a test at 10 the downsides aren't too harsh, also insanity could only happen if your get higher than 100 duress.
I think some abilities should be locked to only High Duress and some to only Low Duress. A chirurgeon might roll above Duress while attempting to heal a wound, because the action requires a steady hand and a level, focused mind, and becomes more difficult as stress mounts. To balance this, a magical healing spell might require a roll above, but have a chance at mutation. Because these two abilities are sufficiently different, I think they should be two separate abilities (although they do work well together)
This is everything written about duress so far, Some of it has since been decided but its a quick rundown anyway.
So, for Duress tests, should there be a relevant skill/secondary ability related to resisting Duress or should it be entirely based on Will?
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This is the best I have in my Beksinski folder.
Are we committed to using skills? If not, I think there should be an ability or two for duress resistance with different flavors
Abilities like knacks or abilities like class specific dailys?
If you mean knacks then a tech - based ability and a will/fortitude based one would fit the flavor I think.
I was thinking knacks

and a note on 'dailys'. I think powers shouldn't have a cooldown time, but if you try to use the same spell multiple times in quick succession, its definitely going to push you and will probably royally fuck you up, but it should be an option
Yeah with the duress and spell mechanics I think it was mentioned that there is no daily limit but each use of a duress based spell or ability (past you daily threashold) will incur a penalty. The severity of these penalties increasing exponentially.
With the health mechanics, should we have hit die for each class/race eg.
Wandering warrior 1d6
Haunted 1d4
Blightmage 1d3
Faithful 1d5?
Forgot the other one.
>And your race will add onto that
Human 1d3
Slugman 1d2
Fatguys 2d2 or 1d4
Beast men 1d4
Mazefolk 1d3

So if your a haunted human 1d7
If your a Blightmage human 1d6
If your a warrior Fatguy 1d6 + 2d2 or (1d10)
If your a beast folk haunted 1d8
Just throwing ideas around.
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uploading the Haunted picture without the white background
What do we know about snail-amn?

Do they have a Shell? Do they use human armor as a shell thus giving them a humanoid form?

Hwo are they related to slimes? (Honeslty as a more serious setting I would have no slimes). What about salt? Salt golems?
Should we create a discord for this? Consecutive threads seems ineffecient when there are less than 20people posting compared to the 40,80 and above in previous threads. I'm not sure how to create a discord myself but I think it might help to split up the conversation into a bunch of sun-topics on the discord such as Duress & Desparation, Stats, Monsters, PCs and NPCs, Lore, General etc.
>Twisted and deformed by exposure to the Maze, Slugfolk are bipedal invertebrates common in the shallow parts of the Folly. They are resistant to poisons and toxins, and heal more readily than other races due to their unusually malleable physiology.
They don't have shells but the odd crazy-shell-snail would act as a crazy NPC whose been down in the maze long enough to think he's actually a snail or something.
I've created a discord but it's only a basic discord and needs a bit of improvement.

Because of the lethality of the system (rerolling >>52797462 >>52797482 HP mechanics) I feel like we should just stick to a quick calculation (probably something like 2*Might, maximum) to keep death from being a huge hassle when you have to reroll.

The issue with Discord is that canon is determined by post number.
Rolled 8, 5, 8 + 3 = 24 (3d8 + 3)

2xMight can be OP in the early levels, we should think about how people will gain Might (and by extension HP) as they progress in levels. Lets say that I'm putting my lowest 3d8 into might because I'm a squishy blightwizard. My starting HP will become 2x(lowest 3d8).
Now if I'm playing a Warrior Glutton my Might will be the highest roll +3(racial bonus) and the HP pool will be 2x(highest).
But if we don't end up with a HP/level progression system we could use Knacks that allow players to increase their HP pool somehow.
Yeah, I didn't think about that. I'm just concerned that creating a recurring thread for Warren's Folley will just die out too quickly, maybe we could make our rolls and some of the content posts in the worldbuilding general and have the discord to permanently hold pdfs and other resources.
With the Hp=2*Might method our strong warrior glutton here would have 48 hp where as the mediocre Mage from the last thread would have 24 hp. This seems a little high for both of them so we should probably have a hit dice system with races and classes both contributing to the dice rolled and might being merely a modifier.
CoC does it as the average of SIZ and CON, so maybe we can work out something similar.

Also, no monsters have been statted, and the combat system hasn't been touched, so even 48 hp might be tissue paper.
The equivalent in this system would be Might and Will and I think this is that would do as a modifier on the racial and class hit dice. The dice should probably be reworked as they should also have a significant impact on the character's Hp, but the General outline here >>52800329 should be used as a guideline.

Hit dice are just 3.5 bookkeeping at its worst, especially if both race and class go into it. Your character is going to die, so you need to be able to roll five stats and get back into things pretty quickly.
Just use set modifiers for the races and classes, it's an easy fix. However, Hp should definitely differ depending up both race and class.
Rolling for HP = (Might + Will)/2
The fast character deaths are a thing to be considered and >>52802006 says 'set modifiers' but I'm not sure what this means.
sounds good, it allows both warriors and faithful to have a balanced HP pool and a Primary attribute putting toward their HP. Rolling for it.
Lets use pic related for an average HP pool for Warrior/Faithful where they've gotten 18 for their primary and 14 (average roll) for their secondary, this gives them (18+12/2) = 16 starting HP.
Lets say that the blightmage uses 9 and 10 for their Might and Will.
19/2 = 9HP rounded down. It only seems off because this is lvl1 stats I think, even in 5e, an average tank will start with 13HP and a caster will have 6 or 7.
Seems good enough, differences in stat distribution will result in enough difference in Hp.
HP=(Might + Will)/2 seems like a good fit to me, and gets you some good numbers, the lowest possible being 3 and the highest being 24 for super tanky (and lucky) characters.

Dubs confirm! And with that, I think we have enough player information to tentatively stat some monsters.
OP or not?

Your indomitable will allows you to power through all but the most grievous of wounds, even if your body is physically weak. Your HP is calculated as Will/2.

Likely underpowered, as that now sets your maximum starting HP at 12 if you get really lucky.

Maybe add half your will to your base HP?
I fucked up, I meant to do 2*Will/2 (i.e., your Might doesn't factor into HP), but I realized that's just HP=Will. Does HP=Will sound better?

That definitely seems like an option. It'd be a good fit for players who want to play support roles without losing out on survivability, though I'd say it should definitely force you to forgo some other starting ability since it has the potential to give you a much larger HP pool than your stats would support.

Similarly, it might be good to have something for the opposite case, like

> Meathead
Your starting HP is equal to your Might.

Anyone wanna have a go at statting a monster?
>it's said by the men of science that everything in nature resonates.

>it is known by some of the cartographers that hanging a heavy enough rock from a wire or string is a good way to detect some dangers in the dark

>it is practiced by very few the art of "sounding", the use of sound(typically music with careful timing) to examine an unseen space for size, shape, and occupancy.

>the best among those that sound in the deep and the dark have been known to draw the great titans from their usual paths with mighty enough instruments and great enough talent,
(pied piper type character? or bard justification?)

you missed a spot under his right hand
Honestly, it already sounds a lot like what the Spiritualist (Charm bases character) can do, just more musically themed. "Resonance" abilities sound awesome, though.
I'm a little behind the curve on whats in and whats not...
berhaps a sub-class, or flavor option?
I can try to stat a monster. Any mathanons want to do some basic math and tell me what the average health will be?

Average stat rolls are 13.5 for players, so that'll be average HP, as well.

Min HP is 3, max HP is 24.
Ballparking the standard deviation, that means that a good 60% of players will have between 10 and 16 HP.

So our test monster here, how lethal do we want him to be? Does he have the chance to kill an average player with a particularly wounding attack? (in which case something like 1d10+X)
go for a 50% kill rate(roughly even stats) versus a single player to start.

that usually sets a good base-line and gives you a good template for GMs to build off of

Exact SD is 3.969, so yeah, that should be about right.

The general theme has been a pretty lethal setting, so it's likely that anything classified as a Horror will have some means of obliterating an average solo adventurer. There's certainly room for less lethal Mazebeasts, though.

I like the baseline suggested by >>52805706, as well.
So, the monster will kill our poor Cartographer in 50% of fights? Is that what we're shooting for? Or did you mean 50% of our the monster's attacks are lethal?

Probably the former.
That's what I figured, since the latter seemed too lethal

Okay, are monster swings at our hero. Does the monster roll to hit? The hero to dodge? Both?
> tfw you want to help but know literally nothing about balance or game design

The way old-school CoC did it might be entertaining.

Basically, initiative is determined by your Grace (or whatever we end up calling it), so that determines attack order. Alternatively, we could have it be Grace + 1d8 or something to give it a little randomness.

Dodge - If you have higher initiative you may sacrifice your attack action and declare your intent to dodge. When the enemy attacks, you roll a dodge check before the attack roll, and if it succeeds then the enemy's attack misses and is wasted.

Parry - Defender rolls against their attack skill, and if they succeed then the attack is parried and wasted. Only one parry is allowed per round per player. This does not sacrifice the player's attack action.

I think armor is treated as damage reduction in that setting, too, which might help with the overall squishiness of Cartographers.

Go nuts, dude. At this point, ideas are more important than balance. We have enough powernerds on the board to balance even the fluffiest of snowflake bullshit.


Additional discussion of CoC combat rules.
killed in 50% of fights

scale up to 1-hit KOs for "boss monsters" and party-v-monster situations
So we want to make it so that on average one PC will be killed in 50% of fights against basic monsters and bosses result in most if not all of the players dying.

I think it's that a basic monster will defeat a solo average PC about 50% of the time. Being in a party probably doesn't change that ratio a ton, but it'll make each individual a little more hardy. Boss monsters are definitely TPK territory, though.

so that players will be more inclined to teamwork and careful planning.

my opinion runs
"a good boss will kill an unprepared party 4 times in 5"

Solid. I can get behind that.
This sounds fairly solid to me, dodges and parrying.
So, five stats are


I'm a little behind on these threads so, do we know what human average in each of these is as well as the upper and lower limits for humans? Having these reference points should make mechanical development flow more smoothly.

Stats are rolled on 3d8, so mathematical average roll is 13.5, but "human average" in the D&D sense is 12, I think, as if you rolled exactly half the maximum on each of your 2d8.

Minimum is 3, maximum is 24.

Should say

> exactly half the maximum on each of your 3d8.
Thanks for that
For anyone statting monsters or working on other mechanical stuff, I recommend


for working out die statistics to give you a feel for how things like damage dice will work out in practice.
Rolled 2, 4, 3, 6, 5, 6, 6, 5, 3, 7, 2, 6, 1, 8, 8 = 72 (15d8)


Goddamn me.
So, now we have a character

Might: 9
Will: 17
Charm: 14
Grace: 15
Lore: 17

Now this was a pretty good roll but it's a good start. From here, let's get our derived stats.

So there's HP and Move Rate first of all.

HP is (Might + Will)/2 = 13

Base Duress is 4*Lore - 2*Will = 34

Move rate hasn't been determined, but it also hasn't been brought up as a thing that needs to be defined. It depends how in-depth the tactical mechanics need to be to keep the game moving.
Here our dashing hero would definitely benefit from something like Strong-Willed, bumping his HP up four points.
Heyo. Sorry for no update in a minute, got sucked into some other stuff. I'm gonna expand the Creating Your Character stuff to include the stats updates we've worked out (which I think may still need to be rolled into canon) and some of the other material to flesh out the rulebook. I'm also going to set up an account on the Discord an anon posted earlier, but the threads remain the source of canon. Keep posting, be creative, and don't worry about not knowing what you're doing. No one's running the show but the 8s.
I thought /tg/ hated stat rolling?

I don't know this meme.
Username on Discord is PDFAnon. I'll post links for the next update to the rulebook here and there.
Felt like writing some fluff for The Haunted for flavor. I don't know what the religion is like or if there's even one, but I presume that there's one and it's roughly similar to Medieval Christianity, with a Satan figure and all.

>For a time, these people have been called many names. The most common being freaks, heretics, the unholy and demon spawns. The most accurate and least offensive of the names given to them would likely be 'The Haunted'. The Haunted are those who're born as a nexus who not only can be inhabited by a large number of souls, but also naturally attracts them. The surface's faith, fearful of the Haunted's unnatural property, officially declared the Haunted to be the work of the devil and incited witch hunts on them.

>In some kingdoms, merely being born with the gift is enough for judges to deem one a criminal fit only for execution or banishment to the Folly. As such, the Haunted from the surface world are thus forced into a life of crime, even using their gifts to make crime easier. While the Haunted were taken in by bands of bandits, even they and fellow outcasts found the Haunted repulsive.

>Few knows how the Haunted came to be. Some, especially the preachers, claim them to be the children of the devil himself, seeking to father a worthy heir from the lands of man. Some believe that the Haunted came from an enigmatic nomadic tribe travelling the world, with the Haunted being the result of tribesmen abandoning the tribe to live among others. Others say that the opening of the Maze caused spirits to spill out and provided the world with the Haunted as a side effect.

Trips for ultimate truth.


My understanding of the (vague and still unconfirmed) lore is that the Surface is pretty thoroughly mundane, so Haunted are unlikely to appear there, especially given the hazardous nature of the Surface after prolonged exposure to the Maze.

That said, we can definitely adapt this to fit the theme, and your work is appreciated.

The general consensus so far (IIRC) is that Cartographers are mundane conscripts (more like prisoners with more paperwork, honestly) sent to the Maze to work off some debt or crime in service of WISE (or another Surface faction), or something to that effect.
While I like the tone, it doesn't quite match lore. The haunted are people changed instictually by the maze, and who can serve as conduits and hear the 'voice' of spirits, or even whispers from the maze itself. The more advanced (or duressed) can even envoke these spirits as a force, or make direct contact with horrors themselves.
Also, I'd like to think there is a small chance that they are all just slightly schizophrenic people with very well attuned senses and instincts.
I will come up with a compromise then; the Haunted are not necessary able to use their powers on the surface, and might not even know about it. However, everyone else just finds them WRONG. Like, they could be the most mundane humans, being mundane and doing mundane jobs with mundane personalities and mundane looks, and everyone else would still be repulsed and think of them as completely unnatural, even if they try to find them normal. Eventually, the Haunted would be thought of as monsters and lynch mobs would come after them because they simply don't want to be in the presence of someone unnatural anymore.

This would force the Haunted into a life of crime, which would at some point down the line give an opportunity for them to become conscripts. And then they discover their true nature.

Dubs confirms, but it's still going a bit against the spirit of vagueness and open-endedness common in the lore.

I do like the idea of them being "wrong" in some way in their Surface lives, maybe with notes of the idea from >>52811441 where that vague wrongness makes them particularly susceptible to the whispers of the Maze.

Making them straight up torch-and-pitchfork outcasts might be a bit too far, though.
Seems fair. Make them vaguely wrong, just not to pitchfork mob levels.
I think the whole point is that the Haunted don't exist without the maze. High level, high duress Haunted may have unnatural auras from spirit contact, but most probably just seem like mysterious survivors who seem to know things normally impossible to guess.

That said, there is probably something inherintly "off" about them which allows them to understand the underground so well in the first place, not enough to start a which hunt or anything.
Actually, that can probably be said for any class at this point. Hell, I'd be surprised if there is anyone in the Folly who isn't "off" by surface standards (excluding those pansies at the Gate, of course).

Yet more dubs.

I think it's fair to say that ultimately, the exact nature of a particular PC's background is up to the player (or the GM for generated characters), but being forcibly sent to the Maze is a common trait among all classes, and their time in the Maze exacerbates their existing idiosyncrasies.

Speaking of idiosyncrasies, we should work out conditions for players to aquire as the worsen. Ticks, quirks, oddities and insanities, depending on the severity of mental affliction.

Also, thoughts on health scaling: namely, should it?
CoC doesn't, and I dislike players eventually becoming walls of hitpoints. My two thoughts
HP scales with level, but higher abilities cost hp.
HP stayes the same, or grows slowly or via knacks, but better abilities protect the players more.

I'm leaning towards 'no', which gives more focus to the abilities earned from the maze, and less on natural super-strength. It also makes horrors easier to balance, as you don't need to plan around inflating hit points as much.

TL;DR less growing health=more gritty scariness
I absolutely agree with the no HP scaling apart from improvements through Knacks.

As far as picking up mental conditions goes, what if we did it a bit like Darkest Dungeon where if Duress reaches a certain point, the character is "tested" A failure leads to the character gaining some negative trait, but perhaps a strong pass could have a positive effect?

Rolling for no. Slow growth through Knacks and special rewards sounds agreeable. We can also consider the CoC treatment of armor, where it adds damage resistance. This is especially prudent if the Dodge and Parry rules are made canon, and it lets us sidestep trying to hack together something like armor class with the skill-roll based combat.
I agree, no HP scaling.
Everyone is in consensus except the digits it seems.
I had the idea that some insanity effects could have positive aspects to them alongside negative ones, but these would probably be rare.
I think move rates should be defined, just so that DM's know how fucked players are when they're getting chased by horrors. I suggest:
Normal walking/light jog speed= base equal for all characters, used generally in combat and travel pacing.
Sprinting speed =function of Haste (I dislike 'Grace'), usable (funtion of Might) times per encounter/rest/time period.
Agreed. In a harsh setting like this, gaining too many advantages too often would ruin the atmosphere
I'm not entirely sure what "positive aspects" of insanity would look like. Paranoia = perception bonus? So far, it seems like the benefits of high duress are empowering basic abilities, and allowing stronger ones.
That said, I'm open to it, as long as they are few and far between.

I think a more cinematic style of movement might be interesting.

For instance, opposed Might (or Grace, situationally) checks for outrunning a foe, representing your ability to outlast your opponent while you run the hell away.

For combat movement, something which takes your stats into account is probably useful. Maybe Might*Grace/10 feet per move action or something? That puts a totally average PC at a little over 18 ft. per move action over flat ground. More athletic PCs will be able to move further, and vice versa.
>tfw Corpse Giants are not bound by the square-cube law and they're deceptively and horrifyingly fast when they're not slowly lumbering around in search for corpses

Oh, and travel pacing is just assumed to be equal, just to prevent unnecessary bookkeeping while getting from point A to point B. Call it 20-30 minutes to a mile, maybe, to account for keeping a bunch of unhinged murderhobos of varying athletic levels in line and pointed at the destination.
The only thing I worry about is players getting shafted during character creation. 3-24 is a large margin for something that never increases. Should a health baseline be established, or will Knacks potentially make up for low health?
I know most rolls will be closer to 12 or so, but can there be a minimum, or a formula with less variation for health?

I'm inexperienced with this kind of system, so I may be unfounded in my concerns.
The thing is it is the average of two stats and thus is very unlikely to be very low or high and we already have two knacks that make your stat the higher of the two further preventing a little bad luck from crippling a character.

Unless you're fucked on both Will and Might, you'll have an option to boost your health.

Between Knacks, dodging and parrying, and armor, you have a lot of options to keep your character alive at the expense of limiting your total power level.

This is also a pretty highly lethal setting, where death is a little more expected if you aren't playing smart. These are doomed people, after all.

That, and getting terrible stats and still making a fun character is part of the entertainment value in these settings. You'll probably die even if you get amazing rolls, so if you get bad ones you just have to be more creative and use what you've got.

In games like D&D, you become a demigod passively, by killing and lying and thieving and killing some more to make your numbers go up.

In games like CoC, the path to power is painted in your own blood, and probably that of your companions, too. If you become a powerful force, you did it through cunning and skill, and you fought for every bit of it. On top of that, you might be the local tyrant-wizard or whatever, but there are powers you can't conceive of that will notice... or worse, they won't, but they'll destroy you, anyway.
We could design a point buy as a backup but rolls below 6 on any given stat are highly unlikely. I can't be bothered to run the math now but basically, the bell curve tends toward highly average ability.

Stats below 6 account for 2% of all 3d8 rolls, so yeah, rolling actively shit stats is pretty unlikely.
Alright, consider my concerns addressed.

What are thoughts on this? Cinematic sounds good for the setting.
I'm partial to cinematic. This may be anecdotal but my last experience in CoC was done purely with "yeah, you can move about that distance" with maybe the occasional check if there were obstacle or etc. It worked out perfectly fine.
To simplify the mechanics stage, rolling for the following change to canon rulings:

8s and dubs required to introduce new material.

8s and dubs continue to set canon where it doesn't contradict established rulings.

Specifics of previously introduced material (especially the specifics of mechanics) can be made canon by consensus.
hard movement rules that give precise movement rates tend to bog games down, unless they related to tiles on a map.

Voting for slightly looser rules, such as the distance rules in EotE, where your just either at close, short, medium or long range from somewhere and you move inbetween the bracket in combat.

Outside of combat, an opposed test would be best.

If the precise nature of movement is a sticking point, we can always wait for a monster to get statted out and then do a quick playtest just to experiment with combat movement. Much of how combat works is still up in the air, so how movement and distance plays into that isn't yet clear.

Opposed checks for race/pursuit scenarios seems like a good route, either way.
Good use of digits

Where are these digits when we need to confirm canon? :v

Also, rolling for >>52812369
confirmed for canon.
Vagina monsters.
Monsters somehow related to female genitalia?
Just out if curiousity, are there any names that people want to address? I know there's been some suggestions about changing 'Grace' to something else. We might also want to finalize race names. Slug-men? Slug-folk? Sluggos? Something else entirely?
Personally, I'm not a fan of the class name "The First". I think it could use a bit more flavor compared to the others.

Race names should be up to date in the latest PDF.

Grace is a sticky one. It's hard to encapsulate both athleticism and dexterity in one word.

I think the lore of the First is that they were the first explorers sent into the Maze on purpose, which is why they're the rangers and rogues of the setting, and there's a sort of air of tribalism and superiority to them. Totally down for a better name, though. I was imagining PCs playing that class would likely have been born in the Maze as a result of that flavor.
We could fit that in with something like a mutation that happens to prostitutes in the maze.
File: folly.pdf (2.51 MB, PDF)
2.51 MB
2.51 MB PDF
New mega link to sources: https://mega.nz/#!GpUzBaiK!6B6V947TuFZMfHdJT6s8iUVsFHNBlAZM3E0NUX4U0qk

PDF is attached. Rules on attributes both random and calculated have been integrated.

If I missed anything important, please let me know, or ping me on Discord and I'll fix it.

As always, additional images and art are appreciated, as well as flavor, fluff, and mechanical contributions.
linking the discord again incase anyone missed it.
PDFAnon passing out for a bit. Keep it up, nerds.
Just a correction for the pdf under "The Cloth Garden"
>No sound travels far through the garden yet a gentle breeze is ALWAYS blowing.
With duress and spellcasting, once a players duress goes over 100 should we roll a d8 for the effects they undergo?
1. Paranoid
will take double the environmental duress until cured of paranoia.
may refuse to share items with the party and can refuse healing from an ally.
can increase the party's duress by proximity (maybe)
2. Selfish
has a large negative for disarming or perceiving traps/ambushes
can take duress if they don't get a larger portion of loot than others.
something else.
3. Coming in 5mins.
>These have all been flavored off of darkest dungeon mental health effects, we can rename then and all that but these are just a starting point or a concept.
I also think that because duress is seen as a dangerous concept the negatives should be more dangerous and damaging than the ones above.
3. Irrational
they have a negative on communication and charm rolls (because they can't get a clear word out)
they can only target the first thing they see and will ignore other threats until it is dead
other debuffs
4. Fearful
may be forced to cower behind the parties tank/healer for a few rounds
cannot willfully move toward a hostile enemy
can instantly fail any charm/conversation checks
5. Hopeless
will sometimes pass their turn
refuse healing
has a penalty for finding/disarming traps
6. Abusive
increased the party's susceptibility to duress
take more damage and deal a small amount more damage
prevent a random party member from receiving the "Words of encouragement" bonus
adding to the above one, it can prevent a decrease in duress to random party members in general
7. Masochistic
they will sometimes deal damage to themselves and their duress increases equal to the damage
can deny healing or healing items (if they're conscious)
health points increase by 10% but 90% of attacks aimed at them will hit
when they receive a scar (max hp decrease) it will be doubled
>Give some more ideas below because all of these are not original ideas, I just got them off Darkest Dungeon which has a similar duress system to Warren's Folley and I changed their effects to suit our game.
Making a suggestion for the naming of Grace as an attribute, earlier we suggested Finesse, Haste and Vigour as possible alternatives. It wasn't clear but it was in the favor of Finesse over the others so i'll show how the description could read if it is changed.
>Finesse represents a Cartographer’s sense of balance, speed, and overall dexterity. Finesse is used when you need to pick a lock, vault a fence, or sprint.
This seems like a better choice I never liked the name grace anyway.
Seconding (thirding?) Finesse.
I think Haste is better thematically, but Finesse matches the actual definition better.
+1 for finesse
be back in 9hrs, make sure the thread doesn't die
I'll try
So are the majority of people in the maze cartographers if not what is life like for the average individual?
Should there be flat stat increase Knacks? Something like

Increase your base Might by 2, but only if it is less than 23. This Knack can be selected multiple times.
I like to think no one enters the Maze because they want to. A denizen of the Folly isn't necessarily a prisoner, but they all left something on the Surface behind for a reason. Cartographers tend to be those with absolutely nothing (at least in the beginning) such as prisoners, but wealthier entrants could possibly set up merchant shops, try to farm what little crops exist in the Maze, or find a job with one of the major factions. People who aren't Cartographers / Underworld Express Couriers probably never leave the city / hamlet they currently reside in.
Let's brain storm some ideas to keep this thread alive.
Throw out your ideas for class abilities. Names, concepts, powers, whatever.

Wandering Warrior
>Bound Ward
Damage reduction is added to the Warrior equal to Duress/10
I like that, mind if I write a little flavor for it? For example

>Wanderer's Ward
A basic protective enchantment applied to the magical armor of many Wandering Warriors, it grows in strength in dire situations. Your armor gains damage reduction equal to Duress/10 for as long as it retains this enchantment.
Change Slug people to Slugfolk and Mushroom people to Mazecaps in the chart with all the races. Oh, and replace that one image with the white background with the version with no background.
I think earlier threads said that few people go down anymore unless they are sent (prisoners), but at one point it was a popular colony. Leaving the Underground is nearly impossible once your body acclimates to it, so many are the unfortunate decendants of settlers looking to start a new life.
The surface has an interest in keeping Warren's Folly exporting goods, so it encourages new arrivals, or occasionally forces them. Most residents are stuck, or trying to escape/improve their former lives on the surface.
I don't imagine much in the way of travel, no, but the factions likely need to spread for resources and information.
The only people to traverse the tunnels between towns and villages are likely Couriers and Cartographers, and perhaps the occasional merchant (although I imagine the wealthier merchants would pay Couriers or Cartographers to deliver letters and goods). Each faction probably sends a few of their own men when they need agents in other locations than the Gate.
Call it the Potlatch. It's a Native American feasting tradition that white settlers adopted. Then they got into it that hardcore potlatchers would actually bankrupt themselves in order to give their village a nice meal, all for meaningless prestige and one-upping their neighbors.

History is fun.
Spirit Binders should have some kind of basic divination for low duress, like augury or something. Maybe it works the same, but higher duress can interperet it better.
Roll 1d10 and name something to search for. Low duress, only the DM can see the roll.
1-4 hostile spirit decieves you. Points to danger.
5-6 departed spirits point you to people
7-9 influence of the maze points towards a location.
0 points you towards your actual goal

Some anon brought up some kind of resonance based alarm. Having low level Haunted use spirit contacting rituals seems fitting.
Heh, that's pretty good. Potlatchers +1.
throwing out spell ideas

>Stoneslide - High Duress
Channel the energies of the Maze to cause great instability in the stone and earth of the tunnels, causing a minor quake within 50 feet. All creatures within the effect must make a Grace check to remain on their feet, or else be knocked Prone. Creatures knocked prone by this effect take 1d6 damage as they are unable to dodge falling rocks and debris.
Seconding the notion.
Much better name, and it sounds good, thank you.
That also gives the idea of passives [Enchantments] that warriors can choose, depending on their builds.
Is it a boost in armor, or it's own value? Should it be
>DR = duress/10
>DR(normal) + duress/10
Looking for help renaming "The First".
It should capture that they are early settlers and survivors of the maze, who have learned and adapted to survive it.
Low duress is skill based, high duress is mutation driven.

The ideas is good however, it doesn't fit the idea and some of the concepts behind the Warrior and high duress in general as it is a simple defensive enchantment. Something like this works better.
>Calculated Strike
Add damage to your next attack equal to (100-duress)/10
I think there could be a spell for Soulbinders that would invoke The Exorcist on your enemies, forcibly twisting and turning their bodies up in an attempt to brutally injure them through the aid of a bound spirit. Horrific brutality of that scale being inflicted, even if it's a horror, is sure to increase the duress of both the caster and their allies.
Weaponizing Exorcisms sounds rad.

Soul Ravage - High Duress
>Try to bind a violent spirit to a target within 15 feet.
>target makes a will save on first cast, and all of it's subsequent turns to break free
>unnatural contortions prevent target from taking actions, and they recieve 1d6 damage for each of your turns that they remain under the effect
>This effect lasts until your 4th round and requires focus, but you can release the effect at any time
>If the save is made, the caster must make a duress roll to avoid psychic backlash (could also be a contest, with increasing difficulty).
>anyone attempting to target the effected creature must make a duress roll, or fail their action automatically.
Indigenous perhaps? I like the idea that they're the second generation of maze inhabitants - the first generation born in the maze, and have an eerie connection to it.
Looks good for the most part damage might need to be tweaked though.
Updating the rulebook with some of the new material from the last couple of hours. Should have an update up in a while. Really digging some of this new stuff.
File: stressed leper.jpg (3 KB, 125x121)
3 KB
This pleases me.
Aura of calm: low duress, faithful, mundane
Whenever another member of your party would gain duress they may choose to gain 20% less duress (by a minimum of 2).

Statting a cartographer gone mad, separated from his/her band of companions. They have truly lost their sanity, seeing everything as grotesque, abberent threats.
They will do their best to keep watch of the player characters from a safe distance, only attacking if cornered or if they feel like it's their only choice.

Might: 12
Finesse/Grace: 9
Lore: 13
Will: 8
Charm: 4

HP: 10

While encountered, until threatened:
Will spout mad ravings, warnings of eldritch abominations that lie in wait. Causes 1d6 duress on all within hearing range.

Once threatened:
Will take any available escape routes, otherwise:
Will spout mad ravings, warnings of eldritch abominations that lie in wait. Causes 2d6 duress on all within hearing range.

Once wounded:
Will viciously go after the character with the highest duress, seeing them as the 'ring leader'
Causing 2d4 damage if hit.

Once below 1/4th health:
Will shriek and cower, renewing the search for an escape, if none are found, will press self against a wall.
Nice idea for a low level enemy, we should stat carrion crows next because they seem like a low level encounter that can appear in larger groups later on.

Thanks a ton for all this detail. I've added it to the PDF, and made a monster stat block for the setting, so this is awesome to work with. Should have the new stuff in within an hour or so.
Using this guyses text as a template for carrion crow

Carrion Crow
Humanoid carrion crows search for corpses/wounded to devour. The try to fly but merely end up jumping from buildings, sickeningly crunching on the ground before standing and resuming their hunt with broken limbs.
They will dive onto players from the tops of buildings or dart out from alleyways to snatch the stragglers of the party. They seem like a scavenger type so I would give them the mannerisms of lone Kobolds "Will never approach more than 1 person in an encounter, will run if the odds are even slightly out of its favor"

Might: 8
Finesse: 16
Lore: 14 (I'm not sure how lore will be relevant to carrions)
Will: 12
Charm: 4 (again, I'm not sure they are qualified to have any kind of charm score)

HP: 10 (maybe smaller / larger)

Will flee, climbing up an alcove or building to get the higher ground on players or sprint directly into darkness away from the players. Either this or lash out at the nearest player then run away, possibly trying to extinguish any lights or fires to air their escape.

Once threatened:
Will target a single player, latching onto them and hacking into them with their elongated talons.

Once Wounded: I'm not sure, above maybe?

Once Below 1/4 health: not sure, I think that if they've committed to the attack thus far they should continue with it.
Lore would be how efficient said creature is at dealing with other issues in the maze, remember they are trapped in here just as much as the cartographers are and need to survive the stronger horrors as well.
tfw your template gets used

anon-kun, you shouldnt have.
File: folly.pdf (2.75 MB, PDF)
2.75 MB
2.75 MB PDF
At long last.

Updated sources: https://mega.nz/#!y5cjmJbJ!Wf29f0Bfi29uonGHnfcyZBM5Y_RGAWRnPucdHISkBgw

I didn't add everything from the last time, but I added a fair bit. If anyone's got ideas about how to structure things as this continues to grow, I'm open to whatever you've got.

Grace has been renamed to Finesse, and I got the two monsters statted. I also did some flavor additions and a few mechanical tweaks based on things in the thread, so reviews are welcome.
Ideas for High Duress Mazeborn shape-change (>75 duress)

>Altered Form
As the influence of the depths pervades your body, you deform yourself to match it, and thrive. As an action you may mutate into an abberant form, granting you enhanced abilities.
While in this form, you may treat your duress as 90, and ignore minor afflicitons. You gain X major traits and Y minor traits [armor, speed, claws, teeth, limbs, regen, stealth, gills, senses, movement etc].
Your form is visible, and horrendously changed during this transformation, adding 1d6 duress to yourself and all witnesses, and those unfamiliar must make a sanity check.
You may take an action to shift back to your origional form. Upon doing so, or after 5 rounds, make a duress check. You may choose to extend your form beyond this time, but you must add an additional 1d6 to your own duress, and your altered form's duress. You must make a check, and add duress after every 5 additional rounds in this form.
Should you reach 100 duress in this way, you lose yourself in your deformity, and cannot change back by choice. You regain any suspended minor afflictions, and cannot lower your form's duress until you finish a long rest, from which you gain no benefits other than reverting to your original form.

Sorry if it's rambly, feel free to rework it.
I like it, though it seems a little overt or maybe thats just the way you worded it.

I would like to see something like this though.
I think for the sake of convinience, the Forerunners should have one mutation chart, which other abilities reference. Abilities could then be devided into
>temporary minor mutation, small cost
>permanent minor mutation, duress increase
>temporary major mutation(s), high cost
And so on.
Can someone explain the difference between parry and dodge?

I imagined that Warriors would get parry bonuses, and Forerunners would get dodge, but how do they function differently?

If we could come up with rudimentary skills, that would also help flesh things out.
>Athletics (climb/swim)
>Acrobatics (balance/jump)
>Medicine/First Aid
I may very well be wrong, but it seems like you can attempt to dodge once for no cost, but then every subsequent attack after that gets in for free, unless you try to parry?

I believe it was decided that an exhaustive skill list was out, in favor of ability rolls and GM discretion with Knacks providing bonuses on top of raw ability rolls for broad classes of actions.

Also, the big difference between Parry and Dodge is that you can dodge a ranged attack, but you can't parry one (unless there's a knack that lets you try that).
Just a quick spelling mistake for the current pdf
>Finesse represents a Cartographer’s sense of balance, SPEED (or something akin to it), and overall dexterity.
And with the Knacks section, I don't think that people should be able to begin with the Strong-Willed Knack because it allows a massive boost in survivability in the early game.

>Temp Minor: (temp cost = half perm cost rounded down)
Low light vision (perm cost = +4 permenent duress)
Long Nails (pc = +4 pd)
Chameleon skin (pc = +5 pd)
Poison resist (pc = +3 pd)

A minor alteration can be taken as temporary and will give the person temporary duress but if the alteration is taken as permanent it will give them permanent duress that won't fade naturally and requires some kind of magic or mental healing.

>Temp Major: (major costs are static)
Dozen Eyes +2 pd
Thick Scales +2pd
Large Tentacle +2pd
Talons (large claws) +2pd
Boiling Blood +2 pd

A major alteration can only be taken as temporary (i think these alterations should be similar in flavor to beastmans traits but more effective) but will incur a small amount of permanent duress or a large temp amount.


I think the idea of an exhaustive list was decided against last thread but can be used by the party and GM as guidelines to help show the things that they can do.

Additional information that could be liberally stolen.


That's exactly the point of Strong-Willed. You're sacrificing some other ability for a bit more survivability. It's only a large boost if you roll a really unusually high Will.

For instance, say I roll a 12 on Might and an 18 on Will. Taking Strong-willed gets me an extra 3 hit points. Supposing the same Might, if I manage to roll a 24 on Will, I'm still only starting with 6 extra hit points. Considering that most combat is a death sentence, anyway, this is going to net me all of one extra round of combat, if I'm lucky, before I get my testicles ripped through my eyeballs.
Right, I think I was unclear on how hp is calculated, j was assuming that strong willed would double your starting hp but the way you explained it seems a lot more balanced.
It looks good so far, I'll review it more in the morning. Two more things I want to add before I pass out for the night.

Acid cough - mid range
User takes 1d4 damage, target takes twice as much.

Some mutations that add Temp HP. The mean kind, not the buffer kind. You can push yourself, but you'd better get some healing before you revert.
Tag on a canabalism trait to something. Eating a recently slain foe while mutated restores 1d8 health, adds 1d6 duress (for example).
personally I think making the technology not work due to going deeper into the underworld is a bad idea, for one thing it kinda screws over certain potential player archetypes(at least if we go beyond any of the ones already established)

I incredibly disagree with this, ultra high lethality games are rarely any fun, unless you're going for Gamma World and Paranoia style goofiness(and have a character creation system quick enough that it only takes a couple minutes to make a replacement character)

maybe have it so Health can increase, but there's a cap to it, so for example if 24 is the highest a starting player can have, the max health you can get through later improvements is something not much higher like say 30 or so

also I'll admit I kinda find the idea of using post numbers to establish lore and rules to be really retarded, but I'll play along with it,
since things are pretty civil here

What archetypes? Tech is just window-dressing for cities, as far as the setting is concerned, and all the combat is built around playing smart if you must fight and running away if you have the option.

The rules aren't ultra-lethal by any means. If anything, they're more forgiving than CoC, especially because you can actually become a reasonable combat character if you live long enough, instead of just choking to death on a sandwich when you read something creepy in Latin.

We've discussed having Knacks that can raise your health, but there's also armor to consider, since it functions as damage resistance, making raw health less of a concern.
I agree with you in nearly every aspect of this but we've established that we're moving away from conventional systems like 5e and adopting some mechanics from various systems like CoC and while we intend to balance the system as we go we don't want to make it bland or turn it into 5e with minor changes. So far Warrens Folley has a flavor or appeal that we would hate to lose.

>I think making the technology not work due to going deeper into the underworld is a bad idea
We're keeping with the unique theme of :
>1800 gunpowder tech on the surface
but as we venture into the depths of the uncharted underground it turns light ---> medium/high fantasy where regular people encounter great beasts and horrors like Corpse giants and Carrion Crows.

>for one thing it kinda screws over certain potential player archetypes(at least if we go beyond any of the ones already established)
I don't think that for the time being we will be exploring any gun-types past the earliest of early-game.
An example from the last thread is continued in next post.

>Tech ceasing to function as you go further into the maze makes for interesting battle mechanics like having a misfire in a crucial situation turning from the PC's ambushing a roving monster into the PC's running for their lives once their surface weapons break mid-battle. This could be a useful first encounter where the PC's think they've got their weapons to help them then they break apart in their first encounter forcing them to rethink the maze.

>Exactly, for the rifle example odds are the rifleman would have noticed it becoming less reliable as they move through the maze if it gets to the point where it literally explodes because of misfire they have no one to blame but themselves.

>I guess I just don't see the utility of guns to the party unless you plan to spend a lot of time near the Gate. Early on, sure, but as the average Duress of the party goes up, things are going to turn savage pretty quickly, and anything more complicated than a longbow will likely stop working altogether in the tunnels.

>Just trying to find a way for the longbow to make sense in 1800's. It wouldn't make sense if a musketeer were going into the first encounter with a gun and ditching the gun to go into the next encounter with a longbow because by nature he wouldn't have trained with a longbow. Could he just retain the muskets damage dice and proficiency for a bow, saying that it's a "Warrens Bow" forged from forsaken metals in the tunnels. What other ranged options does a ranger have that's comparable to 1800's tech?

>Metals and materials in the maze are less likely to cease functioning, but much much harder to obtain and work with, and cannot emulate high technology. Harpoon gun or crossbow seems like a good alternative to the rifle. Hell, some maze items may even be magical under high enough duress.
>See this sword? It cleaved through three crows in a row down by the archives. What? Just a knife?! Well it was a sword down there, dammit!
Voting and Rolling for this.

Man, the background on this stuff is crazy. Rolling again.
5votes out of 20people in a thread, I think thats enought to make the cult of the feast change the name. If so what is it changed into?
>The Potlatchers
>The Feast of Potlatchers
>I'm already out of ideas
Posting possible concept for a Corpse titan.
>Pic is "The One Reborn" from bloodborne
It is an amalgamation of the hundreds of humans in a town area used in a failed attempt to create a "Great Old One" akin to something from the Cthulhu mythos.
forgot to attach pic.

If I were ever going to describe the first thing that comes to mind when I think the words "Corpse Titan", that'd be pretty close.
We should have variable Knacks which have a general ability and then are specified in.

Example: Acclimated (Source of Duress) With this Knack, a character sees an appropriate bonus to rolls against for sanity/resist Duress from a certain source, as well as partial resistance to environmental Duress where that source may contribute to Duress
I tried re-reading your post a few times but I still couldn't understand it.
Also, I'm working on the monster stats for Corpse Giant and looking at getting a few more images for lesser corpse giants because the bloodborne pic above should be the Copse titan because in-game 'The One Reborn' is well above 10m in height and a regular corpse giant strikes me as being around 5m.
>for the picture use the lower left image as possible inspiration for a corpse giant approx 4m tall.
I reread that, yeah it's a mess.

Basically it's a knack in two parts

First, the general Knack. In this case Acclimated.

Second, the specialization. That will be what is in the parentheses.

Think of them like knowledge skills in other games.
Corpse Giant

Might: 80
Finesse: 4 or 6
>(or have it relatively high like 15 or 20 because anon above said it would be creative to have it deceptively fast)
Lore: 22
Will: 50
Charm: less that 10 (around 4)

HP: 12d8+24 OR 78 OR (50+80)/2=65

>For larger monsters the HP system really suffers from the '/2' portion because the monsters Might and/or Will need to dramatically increase to get nice HP out of it.
Even so, we have to keep in mind that we haven't decided the point of a campaign when players will need to hunt down a corpse titan. It will probably be a mid/late campaign monster that the whole party will take out with a few player deaths, but it could be a CR2 instead of CR4 (I used the HP pool for a CR4 monster here)

When encountered, until threatened:...

Once threatened:...

Once Wounded:...

Once below 1/4th heath:...

>I Have no idea, anyone have anything?
I can fix it's HP. Just give it the Bruiser Knack as a quality and thus it now has HP based only on Might

Strictly speaking, the HP calculation is probably only for humanoids. Probably safe to say you can do whatever with Horrors and the undead.

That might actually be better, because 80 Might seems like guaranteed TPK territory, and 50 Will doesn't make a ton of sense for a creature like a Corpse Titan, especially if it's just set that way to artificially increase its health.
A simple fix going forward would be that health doubles with size categories.

A better fix would be only deriving stats for players. After all, horrors aren't supposed to follow normal rules. Just give them what's needed and don't worry about formula.
>only calc stats for player characters
Sounds like a good fix actually, pcs don't need to know the exact stats for monsters, it helps if they don't because it will be a completely alien setting to them.
So, notably absent so far are weapons, and how to use them.

Rolling against attributes directly might put an unnecessary upper limit on martial prowess. If that's desired, then raw attribute rolls should be fine, but there's also room for Knacks to change how attack rolls are made. A low-level Knack might add a straight 10% to the success chance of a roll, where a high-level Knack could change how attack rolls are calculated (say, by changing base attack to 2*(the relevant ability)).

Perhaps it might be better to establish good rates, and then work backwards from there.
Beyond just attack, how does damage work? Low rolls with modifiers seems best if most PC's have around 13 health.
We haven't gotten to weapons yet but that seems in line with the setting.
Just as a note to people who worry about technology falling to the wayside, I had some thoughts.

Ideally, the setting will be rich enough that it'll have that Greyhawk or FR level of expansiveness that will allow a GM to have a low-tech crawl through the deeper parts of the Maze, but will also leave compelling options for higher-tech city adventuring.

A lot of comments seem to be working under the notion that all there is to the Maze is monsters and weirdness, but there's plenty of room for intrigue and entertaining city adventuring for groups that want to make that happen.

I'd love to see more material in this vein, but the main thrust of the last few threads have been working out the basic mechanics and some of the more extreme limits of encounters so that we have something to work with when balancing classes and such.

If you've got ideas, get 'em out there. That's the point of the thread, after all.
A good point to keep in mind.
A fun thought is that, due to the differing levels of technology allowed, different areas could function like almost different time periods. The Gate is the closest to modern, maybe even with basic electricity, but that provides a whole array of different settings to play with.

Throw out some ideas for settlements. Think about size, tech level, culture, economy or whatever. Just start some ideas and we'll see where it goes.

Just some vague ideas.

Warren's Gate: Industrial Era, gas lanterns, probably some steam-powered excavation equipment. Lots of trade, in terms of culture and goods, with the Surface. Probably the largest single settlement players will encounter.

Mazecap Cities (several): Probably more sprawling than Warren's Gate, with buildings carved out of the huge fungi which grow out of the stone which composes the Maze. Imagine something like a Telvanni city in Morrowind in terms of layout and scale. Probable a few stone buildings as trading posts and inns for non-Mazecap traders and travelers. Probably low-tech except for some conveniences available in the human buildings. Maybe buildings constructed from stones brought from the Surface stave off some of the more tech-harmful effects of the Maze.

Slugfolk Enclave: Outside the bounds of Warren's Gate, but within a short distance. The seat of power for some Slugfolk faction which is in regular contact with the Surface through agents within the Gate. Probably similar technologically to Warren's Gate, but not quite as advanced.
If things don't pick up in a bit, I'll make sure the thread gets archived and start up another work thread once I've got some more things rolled into the PDF.
A new ability
(Name pending) high duress, faithful, magical?
Whenever a fellow cartographer's duress increases you may increase your duress by X% of that duress with X being determined by your will and further suggestions.
Is the point just to increase your own duress? That almost seems like the opposite of a faithful's goal. What about

Share the Load
>When Teammate gains duress
>Faithful also gains equal duress
>Reduce duress of each by (will modifier)
>When teammate gains duress
>Half duress gain
>Faithful gains an equal amount
So, mundane Faithful are about centering the party and Duress resisting.
Are High Duress Faithful the opposite? Party wide power boosts, at the cost of increasing Duress, or potential backlash?
These sound good, let's keep going.

>Shade Glen
A peaceful, sleepy little hamlet surprisingly far in the maze. How these happy, self sufficient people remain unbothered by the horrors is a mystery, but there are rumors...

Similar, but less subtle

Located in the center of a horde of whisps, this town enjoys light, warmth and safety. The citizens celebrate the spirits, and "joining" them is considered a priveleged fate for those who have lived good lives, or been chosen. Whether the leaders truly believe this, or simply consider it a necesary farce is unkown.

This raises the question, how long have people been in the Folly? At least 1 generation. Maybe 2?

>Thymac Tower
Composed of a single, huge hotel, the citizens of this building rarely venture outside of their isolated higher floors, leaving the lower levels to guards and traders. Balcony gardens provide food, and different floors are owned by families, or set up as their own "buildings".
>possible addition
Certain elevators only reach certain floors, requiring a knowledge of the area to fully traverse the building. Even the residents haven't fully discovered everything inside, with new rooms or even floors seeming to appear on occasion.

>Thermic Heights
Constructed from materials scavanged from nearby parts of the abandoned city, this sprawling town sits suspended above a vast, seemingly bottomless geothermal vent. The air flows up hot and moist, creating good conditions, and the tenuous position leaves it safe from terrestrial threats. Athough seemingly unsafe in design, the citizens move around the maze of catwalks assuredly, much to the terror of visitors. The updrafts allow for rudimentary flyers and gliders to function, who often act as scouts, guards and hunters of the small, flying creatures which frequent the area.
Revised names are welcomed.
Probably needed, frankly.
The vent city could also be grow vertically, with some sections built into the walls of the shaft. Gliders serve an additional purpose of travel to different sections of the city.
I imagine there should also be some 'normal' towns, so that not everything feels like a theme, or a plot point. Each town needs a basic things, though.
Natural defences, or the force to safeguard the town. Simple proximity to the surface can work, or sufficiently reinforced walls.
Trade routes to larger communities, ideally the Gate, or a way of producing food and goods for themselves.
WHY did people settle Here? Did it get set up in early expansion days? Is there something interesting or valuable nearby? Did these people simply need to separate themselves, or find a place suited to their lifestyles? Was it just a good spot?
Don't do the first one it could completely eliminate small duress gains. Maybe even do the opposite, where it gets split with a small number added to it, to make using it take some consideration.
>Thymac Towers
>Thermic Heights
Christ, I'm bad at this
>The Den
A small community near the main surface town. The Den is inside a large cavern with a dead end, on the entrance is a large wall with plenty of guards. The Den gets most of it's supplies via trade with other towns. Their main export is tea made from mushrooms that grow in the cave. No one knows why they only grown there and people don't question it, they just enjoy the small luxury that they bring.
Shit, I forgot to put "instead" in there.
>Cold Abbey(name needs work)
A small convent of women following a religion from the surface. No one is really sure what they are doing or how they get new members and the gates are always locked. Farms can be seen but no one is really sure how it works.
>The Town of Fremen (in universe joke)
Established by prisoners and runnaways who found cartography too dangerous, or simply wanted to distance themselves from the ministry. Although not deep in the Folly, the way there is difficult to find and navigate without help, acting as a natural deterrent to hostiles, both horrors and lawmen. The town is ungoverned with only a rudimentary 'code' and powerful individuals preventing total collapse. The main economy is scavenging, thieving and smuggling goods from other communities and trade routes. Disgraced scholars patch up the wounded, or make drugs from the underground's resources, providing the only real services of the town.
Where am I?
>Why, friend, you're in the Town of Fremen!
Oh, and who are you?
>Me? Well, ask anyone and they'll tell ya': I'm a Free Man! Ahahah!

As you can imagine, drugs, alcohol and denial pretty much keep the society afloat.
The 'economy' is just a pyramid scheme of "protection" services.
>Basically, initiative is determined by your Grace (or whatever we end up calling it), so that determines attack order. Alternatively, we could have it be Grace + 1d8 or something to give it a little randomness.
I like this idea because of the 8's theme.
>The Undertow
An out of place an unusually large whale skeleton that has become the home to a community of former sailors who long for their old days at sea. The area seems to have a unusual amount of wind that seems to give off the sounds of whale calls, many sailors beleave it's the spirit of the whale trying to communicate but most just think it's superstition.
Intermittent bumping, will contribute in a bit.
I've made a list of stat levels for the different races people can start as and I've noticed that there are no buffs for charisma which means our haunted class can suffer.
and I considered giving the human a possible charisma buff as a backstory stat like murderer (+5duress +combat skill) except made for charisma.
This could lead from the idea that the Haunted people from posts above were born different and their perception of things allowed the maze to take root in their minds, causing them to lose touch with society and never feel at ease, also when things get too quiet the haunted hear whispers of human spirits who died within the maze. this leads them to crime etc end up entering the maze and everything feels alright, like they're coming home from a long trip away.
I think fleshing out backgrounds and other subsets of races would be a good way of sorting out the lack of Charm improvements. Maybe we should set out to get those nailed down.
Throwing out a list of possible actions players could take during their turn, I also think turn order should be decided my Finesse + 1d8 because 8's and it gives an element of luck to turn order instead of Hearthborn is always first with the Glutton going last.

Cont. in next post
Action, Bonus Action, Movement is a perfectly fine turn system but I'm partial to an action economy more like "You have 2 minor actions or 1 major action. Movement up to a certain rate is considered a free action but in order to use full movement or increased movement a type of action is required."
That's the idea behind dash, you have to use your action to dash which doubles your move speed. this means you can't do any other action that turn but you could do a bonus action if your class allows it, e.g cast light onto yourself, or reload 1 bullet into a gun (I cant think of anyother bonus actions).
and your sprint speed is a function of your finesse which is (Finesse x 10 = ft / round) and the average finesse will be 13 so 130feet / round sounds about right. There will probably be a Knack or something that modifies running or acrobatic speed.
The application of most warrior weapon enchantments, and other minor self-buffs, should be a bonus action.
bump, i'll be out for a bit. dont die on me yet.
Blightmage, low duress, magical,
Craft Potion
Using certian ingredients found in the Maze the blightmage may craft a potion with a variety of different effects can only have X potions at once.
Example potions:
Unstable Concoction: this is by far the easiest potion for the blightmage to craft being able to be crafted even in combat and will serve as the blightmage's main way of dealing damage does ??(affected by lore) damage in a 5-foot radius from where it lands.
Potion of iron skin: gives an ally damage resistance based upon the blightmage's Lore for the duration of an encounter.
Good start on potions.
Other names for ideas could be
Draught, elixir, salve, poultice, stimulant, tonic, philter, tincture, extract
Probably unnecesary, but help differentiate.

Maybe higher level potions have stronger effects, but come with side-effects, or withdrawl symptoms.

>Add an additional 1d4 to attack rolls for the next minute, after which you gain 1d6 damage and duress.
Rolling for the Potlatchers
Healing Poultice, low duress, mundane, alchemy
"Heals allies for a small amount, must be directly applied to wound the target." Heals an amount of hp determined by your Lore stat over the course of 30 minutes.
Ichor drought, ?? duress, magical, alchemy
"Made using the blood of a horrible creature, this alchemical creation provides inhuman strength and/or Finesse (DM's choice revealed upon the creation of the item) at the cost of sanity."
+1d4+2 Might and/or Finesse -1d4 Will +1d6 duress (duress increase is after the resistance modification due to the decrease of the target's Will)
Elixir of the Maze, ?? duress, magical, alchemy
"This feat of alchemy is particularly dangerous as it opens one's mind to the Maze and everything that entails" the user imediately undergoes a personal psychological encounter roll on the random table reroll if the result is "nothing" then the user reacts to the outcome as normal but with a +(Blightmage's Lore modifier) bonus on all duress related checks for being somewhat prepared for the experience.

Dubs confirms.
Cartographer's stimulant (name needs good flavor), any duress, unknown if magical or mundane, alchemy
"This drug refined from several herbs only found in the Maze is very popular amoung Cartographers, perhaps due to its unmatched ability to get someone out of trouble" one batch of ingredients creates one dose of Cartographer's stimulant for each Cartographer in the group and a batch only counts as one alchemical item towards the maximum amount of potions a blightmage can have active at once. When used the target's base speed increases dramatically and they are uneffected by attacks of opportunity this speed increase is equal to the target's duress*modifier(to be determined later)+10*(blightmage's Lore modifier) for X minutes if used in combat and allows them to exit the Maze immediately if used outside of combat.
>Allows them to exit the maze
Friend, I have some bad news for you...
I meant back to town or whatever not outside of the Maze entirely.
In another setting I would approve of it. In Warren's Folly, however, teleportation, especially to safety, seems like very high level magic. And high magic works towards the maze, not away from it.
Speed boost potions sound good, but forget the second effect.
Agreed second effect is too powerful.

I do really like the idea of an enchanted map that gives wrong directions and draws you deeper into the Maze, though.
Ok lets draw up an interim weapons table
How will weapon attacks work in this world, will it be 1d100 + stat? and what are we contesting when we roll that, something along the lines of AC? Will different classes not be able to wield certain weapons?
Wandering Warrior: Can use all weapons shields and armor

Faithful: can use all weapons shields and armor

Blightmage: daggers, clubs, spears, slings darts and light armor

First: simple weapons, rapier, shortsword, all martial range weapons. shields, light and medium armor.

Haunted: simple weapons, blowgun, net, (I'm not sure but a few martial weapons seem alright)
This seems to be very 5e, and while it's a good starting point, I think we've been leaning closer to CoC. Also, guns definitely exist in this setting, and other weapons need to be rescaled for lower damages.
>Simple weapons have the same categories, but lose damage modifiers.
>Light weapons (1 hand) do 1d4 (knives, clubs, claws) + finess
>Medium weapons (versatile) do 1d6 (swords, spears) + avg
>Heavy weapons (two handed) do 1d8 (Battleaxes, Polearms) + might
>Bows are 1d6+finess (martial), Xbows are 1d8(simple, no modifier)
>Guns do 2d4 (pistol) - 2d8 (2barrel Shotgun), but malfunction at high duress, potentially harmfully. Simple?
We've already discussed using DR armor, and I'm not sure if/how that interacts with AC. Maybe a purely character based AC, with equipment based DR?
As far as attack rolls, I am a fan of 2d10. It crates a decent bell curve, and if we put in something like advantage, it's a simple extra d10.
In my mind, hitting things shouldn't be too hard, it's hurting them that's the issue. PC's will have dodges, parrys, armor and defensive abilities, while horrors are nutoriously hard to kill.

Just a starting point, of course. Feel free to critique and reform.
Just giving a generic 5e weapons table but this is expected to be heavily modified to fit the transfer of setting from 1800's tech into Warrens tech. Using dagger as an example.

>currency? I don't think we've decided on any currency name for this place.
1d4 piercing
>I think we'll probably use damage types even if they're simplified because we already have acid dmg, fire dmg and psychic damage from duress or other mind horrors.
weight 1lb
Finesse, we could change this value or just leave it as-is because it shows that you add your Finesse score to the atk & dmg roll.
Light, same mechanics as 5e where you can make 2 attacks in one turn if both weapons have the light quality
Thrown, effectively throwing a weapon with range increments of 20ft and 60ft.

Any weapon that doesn't specify Finesse should use might as the atk and dmg modifier.

Versatile, can either one-hand weapon or two-hand weapon for an increase in dmg.
Two-handed, you have to use two hands to wield the weapon.
Reach, your attack range is ten feet, you can attack within the range as well.

Currency names for this place could be:
Hollows (because its a cave)
Rocks (cave)
Rial(s) (not sure, it sounds alright though, and could be perceived as REAL because in the maze people aren't sure what is real)
>side note this is actually the currency for Iran and Oman but PC's will not make the connection
Pieces (sounds kinda crimey/piratey which is what the city is like)
Eiling (Eye-Ling)
Ryuso (sounds cool)

I took way too long to write the above text so It was all written before I could read your post, I'll respond to your post in the next post
These look good. I really like the second two, but the first (healing potion) raises some questions.
How easy is healing in this setting?
How do rests work? Do we want to limit healing to out of combat only?

I think the idea is that AC doesn't enter into it. Either you hit or you don't. Armor as DR is just there for the case in which you get hit, just like in reality.

Attack rolls are slightly complicated by the lack of skills. In CoC, this is easy because there are weapon skills (in addition to a base hit chance for certain classes of weapon), and everything is rolled on a d100.

It might be worthwhile to just leave it as a d100, set a default hit chance for each class of weapons, and give a number of combat related knacks appropriate to the class.

For example, an unarmed strike has a 50% hit chance. It requires no special skill, you just have to not be a moron by swinging wide.

A simple weapon like a club has a base chance of 25%, while a slightly more skill-based weapon like a sword has a base chance of 20%. Any dummy can swing a sword, but you need training to not stab your own dick off.

Then you stack Knacks on top of that to stand in for skills. Maybe a Wandering Warrior gets an additional 5% per level in a favored weapon, or gets three +5% knacks at first level to spread out among multiple weapons (or stack on a favored weapon). Stuff like that.

Healing is hard. I'd probably rework the healing poultice so that it only grants temporary hit points, or has some other non-healing effect. It was discussed in previous threads that a Chirurgeon is really more of a field medic, where "healing" as is traditional in RPGs requires nontrivial magic (and therefore danger).

"Healing" is definitely a non-combat activity, unless you have some really creative and suicidal healers. Nothing stopping you from taking fantasy PCP to shrug off some damage for a few turns, though.
My understanding is that Dodge and Parry already do the job of AC, making it redundant.

Favored weapons sounds like a good concept. At risk of sounding like skills, perhaps each class should recieve % bonuses per level to allocate towards certain weapon types. Warriors get 15%, Faithful/Forerunners get 10%, Mages/Haunted get 5%
Continuing >>52865834 in response to >>52865800 and >>52865722 (double dubs, really, my man?):

With respect to damage, consult this table for some ideas. Given the expanded hit point pool compared to CoC, these can probably be made a bit more vicious to reflect the increased survivability of a Cartographer vs. a wilting Victorian dilettante.

When in doubt, choose more dice over bigger dice. A more deadly weapon is more deadly even if you graze someone (I should think), and the bottom end of the damage range should support that.
Speaking of lack of skills, how is our 'rogue' class going to work without skills? +X rolls to any skill check? If we come up with knacks or features for specific types of skill rolls, is that really any different than actually having a list of skills?
I like temp-hp. I think it should also act as a 'boost' instead of a 'buffer': if you are only being sustained by your temp-hp, you'd better get stabilized before it wears off.
What if Chirurgeons can mundanely heal up to half HP out of combat, but need more power to heal beyond that, or take care of conditions?

Combination of broad knacks and GM interpretation. We should probably work out exactly what sort of skilled tasks might befall our poor Cartographers in the first place.

Locks and mechanical devices might not be common sights in the deeper Maze, but you can't go wrong with Disguise/Bluff/Hide (usually in that order).

Alternatively, we reimagine the core concept to shift the archetype away from the rogue and more toward the assassin. That might actually fit better, as an assassin is much more akin to a ranger (the low Duress version) than a rogue is, in terms of skillset. This makes even more sense if the actual set of potential "skill checks" is limited by the nature of the setting.
Just to get the ball rolling
How should potion creation work? X times a day? Infinite use, but can only carry X?
How long does crafting take? An hour? A rest? A round per object?
How are potions taken? Can they be administered/injected? Does it take a (major) action, or a bonus (minor) action?
How many potions can be active at once? 1? X? Up to X, but with possible consequences?
>Side note, a combined-potions-consequences table seems needed/fitting for this setting.
I assume actual components are handwaived for the most part.

Agreed with boost rather than buffer. You're certainly not healthier after you get a sword wound bandaged up, you're just not bleeding all over the damn place, anymore.

How non-combat healing works numerically is going to depend on the density of encounters, how lethal we want extended engagements to be, and what's available in town.

CoC investigators near the beginning of an adventure gad about all over New England, seeing a monster a month in a very bad year, and have long convalescence periods in fine manors and hospitals when they get shot or maimed. Wounds are often forever. Extended engagements are tolerable because you can pop by the hospital when you've been in the wars.

Near the end of the adventure, you've tracked the inscrutable Oriental to his Shuggoth summoning pit in the heart of the Amazon, and you'll probably die from malaria before you even make it to the soul-rending Apocalypse scenario. Extended engagements are impossible unless you are an actual avatar of luck.
Just throwing this out there before I pass out for the night.
Thank you, btw, to all keeping this thread alive, especially at 1AM. I'm always worried when it lulls in the day.

>Ability which allows you to chose which d10 counts as the 10's or the 1's after they have been rolled.
Seems like it could be an interesting control concept.

Unless your man's got some kind of insanely heavy portable lab or a pack mule (both very real possibilities in the setting), drugs and potions are something you made in town or scrape off a rock and hope doesn't kill you.

I imagine there's no mechanical limit to the amount of drugs you can be on at once, like in real life. Equally like in real life, this kills the squishy. I never thought I'd have to consider the game mechanics of Narcan, desu.

Actual components are probably moderately important for plot hooks and field labs, but can likely be largely handwaved for any well-stocked permanent lab available to a Chirurgeon.
For the sake of convinience and gameplay, there should probably be a differentiation between true "Poultices" made carefully in laboratories, and the quick dangerous "Mutagens" that can be made in the field.
I would say make X elixer bases per rest, which can be combined with other philters during an action or throughout the day to create a Mutagen. These mutagens only last a few hours before expiring, and have relatively short effects.

Again, this is straying away from realism to give the Low Duress Blightmage a usable 'schtick'. I'm all in favor of more difficult potions, but then the Mages should have a bit more to work with.
What are the ranges of Damage Reduction we can expect? Weapon damage should probably be balanced around that as well.
Will armors have "types" only usable by certian classes? I'm in favor of armor being free to use, but some come with restrictions, and some can be buffed by certain knacks. Our main tank class semi-literally has armor built in, so that saves us some trouble of differentiating.

There should probably be a few types (2-3) of currency depending on the depth of the maze. Full cities use surface-style notes, with gems or coins being used further in. Nomads and deep-dwellers might even use bones or beads, if they're civil enough for that.
I'm unfamiliar with CoC dmg reduction in armors, what are the usual types and reductions for an investigator?

We can either use our base damage for carrion crows as a starting point or use the base damage reduction as a way to determine how much damage a carrion crow can do.

From earlier, it was shown that Carrion Crows will use the talons on their hands to swipe at enemies and again, I'm not sure how CoC will handle this but 1d4+Finesse mod (Finesse /5 round down) and because claws are light, natural weapons they can deal a second attack without the Finesse mod, so just 1d4 flat dmg. This amounts to an average damage of 7/round if both attacks hit their target.

Also remember that Carrion Crows are scavengers and won't approach more that 1 person at a time unless the pair/group was severely wounded. Carrion Crows might have a pack mentality depending on the direction we take them.
Mundane poultices like the healing poultice do not require much besides grinding up a bunch of herbs together and are usually used to treat physical and minor mental ailments. Ichor draught is actually fairly simple to make if you actually get the required materials and doesn't require a lab just a few preparation chemicals that a blightmage should have on hand.

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