What's the hardest thing you've ever had to say to a player as a GM?
>>54007948"Look dude I know you're my friend and all but quit acting like a fucking dumbass. We're here to have fun not be idiots."
Kicking a player for something that isn't really their fault.It's happened a couple of times to me, and it doesn't get any easier. Playing in online groups where one player just doesn't gel with the rest of the party. How they play and what they enjoy just doesn't line up, and they're oblivious enough to not really be able to notice or actively fix it.I feel bad, because they're not doing anything inherently wrong, it's just wrong in context and often they lack the self awareness to really realise that, which is why they often need to be sat down, talked to and told that the game would probably be better off without them.Sometimes they hold a grudge, sometimes they don't. I've actually invited some back in future when the group composition and game premise is different in a way that I think suits their playstyle more, and I've had some pretty amazing successes with people who were once problem players. Context is really, really important for things like that.
>>54007948Kicking a player for spotty attendance even though he was chill, enthusiastic, and played a character others generally got along with.
>No.Seriously, that's it. Player wanted to do something dumb that was against the RAW, so I told him no. Made me sad because it would have been really fucking cool. Most of my players are good and the cases where we have a shit player I have no issue telling them to fuck off.>inb4 rule of cool fagsI'll bend the rules for something cool, but I won't break them.
>>54008019You're the GM. The rules are what you make them. They exist to support you and assist you in running a fun game, not restrict you when ignoring them would create a better experience for everyone involved.Then again, different philosophies and GMing styles I suppose.
"Ladies, please, one at a time, I'm not a machine."
> "Everyone else has managed to read the rulebook, if you can't, then I'm not going to hold your hand, I have enough on my plate I have to organise to get this game off the ground"I am not a terribly confrontational person.
"I'm sorry guys my depression has gotten so bad, I can't focus on planning a game or have the energy to handle running one either."
>>54008103God, that hits close to home. I'm doing better these days, although I still struggle with it some weeks. Hope you're doing better now as well, anon. Depression is a total bitch.
>>54008103Hello me, it's me again.
>>54008044Eh, it's for consistencies sake. If I let player A break the rules to do something cool, then I'll have more players try to do it. At which point the rules have become pointless. We've done that before, so we hold the rules as inviolate.>>54008103tfw I know that feel. Just don't start drinking to stop it, that'll only make things worse.
>>54008149Perhaps it's just a playstyle thing, but I've never really had that trouble. My groups understand it's a matter of it being thematically appropriate, and that using it more than very irregularly would spoil the impact of those unique moments when you set the rules aside and let something awesome happen.
"If you want to role play out that rape, do it in your own head, the rest of us don't need it"Was DMing a 3.5DnD campaign (but set in real world), player party were all Vikings. One of them took to their role a little too well...
>>54007992Attendance should only matter up till middle school.
>>54008887What? 'Turning up every day' is a more valuable thing in pretty much any workplace than 99% of the shit you learn in school. Forming the habits necessary to always be able to get there and do shit is super important, it's why it's emphasised so much.
>>54008887If you're treating a game as an obligation like you did high school then that's a problem with you, not us.
>>54008121You can subdue but never tame me
>>54007948"Tomb of Horrors", in that I have a hard time saying "horrors" for some reason and it often comes out as "whores".Then again, it probably added some much-needed levity to a grim situation.
>>54009046It gives me a migraine headache
"Since the soft reset did not seem to fix things or make them better, should we consider that, at this point, the best choice for the is to give it a dose of the Old Yeller?"
>>54009545You didn't say that, you just made an excuse to leave and try to pass the game on to one of the players and never came back you fuck
>>54009620No, actually, I legitimately did say that. I talked it over with my players and we decided it was for the best, since I wasn't enjoying running it anymore due to a combination of factors; I'm running a new game with the same group in the same timeslot, so it's not like I vanished, either.
>>54007948"...Yes, I suppose you could just take the long way and go around the other side... ...I have nothing else prepared for today. That's it. I guess we're done."Thus ended my first multiple player game, in which I GM'd for a much more experienced player.
Rewinding the plot for something that made perfect sense IC to do (a character having the opportunity to easily kill the BBEG with a sniper rifle, and taking it, and rolling ridiculously to do so), but which would have derailed the entire plot completely.Pretty much everyone at the table agreed it would be fucking stupid and anticlimatic storywise if that happened at this moment, and the player said they got ahead of themselves with just rolling it away and everything and that they would kick out a player themselves if they did this to them, so there weren't any hard feelings there. But, myself, I still feel like the dice told me this should be so, even if it would have made me throw out all of my notes and have to asspull something completely new and probably much stupider.
>No, I can't run the game next semester. I have Senior Design and Hydrology to worry about and those are going to eat all my time.What I'm not sure is if it was harder to say the first time or the eighth.
>>54010380Eight players or retaking the same classes eight times?
>>54009243DM: You stand at the precipice of the Tomb of Whores!>Bard starts whistling and saunters in
>>54008887Tell that to your boss you lazy piece of shit.
>>54010412No no no, telling the players eight separate times.Though at one point, it certainly felt like I would have to take Hydrology eight times just to understand it.
>>54010290>the player said they got ahead of themselves with just rolling it away and everything and that they would kick out a player themselves if they did this to themIf the player just saw the opportunity and rolled without checking with the GM in any way, yeah, that's not kosher.A bit of a rewind after realizing that just going along with it would be disastrous is fine there.I've fudged when I let someone roll then realizing that mitigating factors meant I shouldn't have allowed or called for the roll in the first place.>But, myself, I still feel like the dice told me this should be soI get that feeling.I would have fiated the damage rules if there was no plausible way to block the shot at the last second (and if taking the shot wouldn't derail every damn thing for the players)Player take the shot, a small splash of blood and the BBEG goes down, hijinks ensue, hours later he is up, angry, and determined but also gonna sport a sexy new scar.Five seconds on the internet confirmed an anecdotal account of a 9mm bullet deflecting off a skull from being fired 10 inches away."Look, heads do all sorts of crazy things when you shoot 'em." - Agent Seeley Booth
>>54010452>Wizard has to explain to the bard about homophones, about the sort of people found in tombs, and about necrophilia, immediately regrets the last bit.
>>54009421Sinking down to your level
>>54010536A head might do crazy things when zinged by handgun rounds, but when it's a rifle the craziest thing they usually do is just pop.>>54010290When real-life BBEGs (for whatever given value of BBE) are killed, power vacuums form. So it depends whether your designated bad guy made up all or most of the threat on his own or if he had any sort of apparatus working beneath him, but if it were me I'd accept it as a consequence of enabling the scenario in the first place and shift gears towards having the players try to deal with the ensuing fallout. Again, this knowing nothing about what your game was like.
>>54010290It might be a bit cheesy but you can rewrite it that it was a body double that took the bullet. Even have the bbeg announce a week later that he miraclously recovered from his wounds, while the double is in a morgue or shallow grave or something.
>>54010536>Five seconds on the internet confirmed an anecdotal account of a 9mm bullet deflecting off a skull from being fired 10 inches away.And if you believe that you'll also believe there's Richard Simmons jr. running around.
>>54010971>>54010971I love it. Dino de Laurentis, bravo.
>>54007948"He left the group because you kept treating his character like shit. And as the one who introduced you two to each other it physically hurts me to hear you talk shit about him behind his back like some kind of high school gossip queen."
>>54010971>And if you believe that you'll also believe there's Richard Simmons jr. running around.Meh, I've seen crazier things actually confirmed, like a bullet ricocheting off water in the middle of a lake to hit a driver in a passing car through the gap in the window, into their temple.Plus I totally saw it happen to that Ukrainian in that one episode of Sopranos.>>54010799>A head might do crazy things when zinged by handgun rounds, but when it's a rifle the craziest thing they usually do is just pop.Fun fact: That quote was a sniper specifically talking about rifle shots and what heads do as they pop.But your point is valid. A perfectly rolled rifle shot is not the same thing as a glancing pistol shot.I still would not be surprised if a glancing rifle shot to the skull could be easily survived, but that was not what was rolled.
>>54011249Just to clarify: that bullet ricochet off water was crazier than the one off the skull, and neither is crazier than Richard Simmons Jr.
>>54011262https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Seedman#1962.E2.80.931971:_As_detectiveGuy got fined a hundred bucks for violating local firearm ordinances. Fucking amazing.
"I'm not crying."
>>54007948"Yes, I did have sex with your mom."
>>54010290You and your entire table are a bunch or gigantic faggots. Seriously, what the fuck, this has to be the weakest shit I've read all week.
>>54011978Why brother? She's been dead for years!
>>54008103>Sorry I didnt show up, and didn't even respond last night. I know I am the GM and the game can't run without me, and I should have told you. I'll make it up to you, I promise. The worst part is, that I still haven't told them it was due to no sleep for a good 50 hours, overworked to shit, and that I no-showed with no response because I collapsed at work, and was lying unconscious in the hospital at the time of our session.
>>54012162That's why it was hard to say, anon.
>>54007992Damn man yeah had to kick a close friend because his attendance was so spotty it was screwing with the group comp. His work schedule was just not reliable enough that he barely showed up to any sessions. Till finally i just told him sorry man but this is just not working out he was cool about it though .
"Dude, you just threw a shit fit and blamed -New guy- for your dude's death. We're like level 13, you would've come back next session anyways if not this one but we've taken a group vote and kicking you off."He proceeded to throw another shit fit, a month later try to get back in contact with me (This guy only ever spoke to me when it was tabletop related and he wanted something for his character) and is still stalking me to this day after like a year.
>>54008149>Just don't start drinking to stop it, that'll only make things worseHow I wish someone had have told me this 5 years ago.
>>54008887You are either too young to post on this site or NEET scum. Either way you should not be here.
>>54010194How could you possibly be so inflexible? Do you understand improvisation?
>>54010577>whores and horrors are homophonesspeech impediment, ESL or just fucking retarded?
>>54012761Probably not native English, certain accents can make words sound completely different than a native speaker would be able to pick up on.
>>54008887You have it the wrong way around, I skipped half of elementary and middle school.
>I don't want to play with you anymoreThe guy deserved it
>>54012594Honestly anon, while it didn't take me five years to realize that, it did take a very startling event. For background, my father had been an alcoholic. Now the event was that I had gone to visit my mother (father had died years ago). When I got there, despite no hangover, having brushed my teeth, took a shower, and so on, the first words out of her mouth were that I smelled like an alcoholic. That shocked me enough to get some serious help. You won't feel better overnight and it won't be as easy as just drinking your problems away, but in the end it will lead to a happier life.
>>54007948i told a player to shut the fuck up when I got sick of him interrupting the game whenever he sensed an oppurtunity to have a good rant about how communism will somehow solve whatever the issue is this week.Corrupt noble?>We need to kill all nobles and establish a stateless proletariat, because in the communist world...Bandits are robbing and killing people on the road?>The real problem is the nobles. We need to join forces with the bandits and slaughter the nobility because then the communist system will fix everything...Starvation due to magical blight that killed all the crops and is beyond anybody's control?>If we just kill the bourgeoise we can redistribute their property and that will fix things, because in the communist world...So I told him to shut the fuck up or piss off. He doesn't play with us anymore.
>>54007948I've had a "1<2. NO!, 2>1" argumentIt took 3 hours to convince him that we were already in agreement and just phrasing it differently, bastard just would not let it go.
>started a r20 group with randoms and DMed pathfinder.>had 5 players 3 guys 2 girls>At first it was slow and awkward but after 5 months, most of us are comfortable around each other.>However one of the guys was a stereotype neckbeard, we didn't know this until a few weeks ago>He was quiet and had a strange way of roleplaying, we all thought it was his character>One of the girls played a sorcerer who found it hard to to trust people, but quickly trusted the Neckrbeard who was a paladin >The sorcerer start to see the paladin as a brother and acted so.>however the neckbeard saw this as her hitting on him>over the months he started to do weird things to the sorcerer >It started when his pally wanted to start sleeping in the same room/tent, 'for protection', raised some eyebrows>then it got strange. the sorcerer likes to take baths, the pally wanted to watch over here so nothing bad happens. She said 'fine' but she wanted a screen to give her privacy>the pally gave a long though out reason why she should let him see her at all times when she bathing. sorcerer say 'we're in a safe place so no need'. Then he says very loud "I WANT TO PROTECT THAT SMILE!">*awkward silence* >since then, the sorcerer started to push the paladin away and said in character that he was getting to clingy>the neckbeard PMs me "Dude you should make a situation where pally and sorc are alone">this was the breaking point for me and about 5min later i ended the game for the night.>I sent the girl a pic of what the neakbeard said and she was freaking out. i told her to have a talk with him. She agreed but I had to be there.>The talk was so creepy, the girl talked to the neckbeard about how she's willing to go back to the brother and sister like friendship. But the neckbeard confest him loved and said he would treat her like the goddess she it and this went on for 10mins.>We talked to the party about this and voted to kick the neckbeard and we didThat was a really creepy experience..
>>54012778>>54012761Just too lazy to find a better ways to say "two words that kinda sound similar if you aren't paying attention or have an accent, like horse and whores."
>>54008991Can't be a decent wage slave if you won't organize your entire life around the hours your employer tells you where to be and what to do, after all.
>Sorry dude i know you were really stoked to play in the game and you have a cool character concept but i'm going to have to boot you. You're just not clicking with the rest of the players.The guy had severe but "high-functioning" asbergers. Kinda felt like i was kicking a puppy but it had to be done
>>54012162"so that's why she was just laying there quiet..."
"wow, I guess you <rules lawyer> are right, ok, so, the monster doesn't kill you"
>>54012740>How could you possibly be so inflexible?It was less about being inflexible than it was about having the entire session undone in a few minutes.The story was abbreviated to fit OP’s question and I omitted the couple skillcheck rolls that killed the BBEG, thereby achieving the goal of the session and all the material I had prepared.>Do you understand improvisation?First, yes.Second, I said it was my first time running more than a one-on-one.Third, I was decent at improv and had put together the whole session from scratch in an afternoon.Fourth, I had designed the entire second half of the session to be about storming the BBEG’s ranch, which he would have fortified against an attack coming from their direction unless they beat the first encounter super quietly, which they didn’t.The new but older and more experienced player (with an Ent familiar and an animal companion) had them sneak up, spy the defenses, and since I hadn’t thought to give them a time-based challenge, suggested they simply circle around and approach the ranch from the opposite direction. I was surprised and couldn’t think of a response. They snuck in under darkness into the stable where for some reason, that probably had to do with my telegraphing the idea by not letting them see my map, he searched the stable for a secret door, found the BBEG’s escape tunnel, snuck up it, successfully crept behind him after I rolled to see where he was, and slit his throat.So in the space of a few surprising but reasonable rolls, my entire session was finished.Today, I could probably roll with it, but at the time I was kinda defeated and since I had been asked to whip up a scenario in a vacuum, I had nothing else to draw from to create another challenge.
>>54013470>Third, I was decent at improv and had put together the whole session from scratch in an afternoon.Do you consider preparing a session improv, or are you just randomly mentioning these two things in the same sentence?
>>54011021This. Why are there GM's who shit on that one specific character? Particularly when it's undeserving.
"And shit like this is why you are now a single"
>>54013358Listen buddy, I am a self employed finance support guy, I work as much as I want for my customers, and I regularly earn 10k burgerdollars a month. If you no-shows even twice, you destroy literally all credibility you might have built for yourself. This applies as much to personal life as it does to your professional life. I understand some of you here are NEETs, and likely dont work much, if at all, but just understand that in an ordinary person's life, you can't no-show without ridiculously good reasons (hospital/doctor/health issue in genergeneral, death, etc). The average boss will fire you, your friends and family will begin to resent you, and a more casual group of roleplayers who barely know you? They will kick you out. This should not be a surprise. You can have other plans, sure, but plans are, you know, planned, and you should know how to work around it. I organise the economics and funds of a severely mentally ill woman, who can't work in a social environment worth shit, and SHE can manage to say "ahh, I can't attend there, I have other plans for that day". You really have no excuse. It is not like the gaming days come as a surprise. And if you can't, for gods sake get help, you idiot.
>>54013443>"wow, I guess you <rules lawyer> are right, ok, so, the monster kills you.">What now? He insisted on a stupid ruling that would mean a TPK, and since nobody else spoke up, I just went with it. TPK, new PCs. Really stupid.
>BBEG being used to describe historical figures as well nowThis place is truly fucked
>>54013567Usually it's because the GM has a personal problem with some part of the character or the player that's unrelated to the game. Like he doesn't like player personally, an atheist shitting on a devout paladin, or a he doesn't like that the bard is gay or something to that effect.It's usually people who have a hard time separating their real life beliefs from the game and can't deal with it like a mature person.
>>54013721>BBEG being used at allUgh.
>>54007948"I'm fading to black because even though I'm responsible for your character gaining a lover, I'm not here to provide you with fap fuel. Now, control your power level, we're in a game store."
>>54012277The fuck is wrong with you?Tell them that you dummy, they'll understand.
>>54007948>Game is over, I lost all of my inspiration because you all just sit there and do nothing.
>>54013693>Assumptions; the post>I am a self employed finance support guySo your situation is in no way similar to that of a wage slave.>I work as much as I want for my customersThis is a luxury not afforded the common wage slave.>If you no-shows even twice, you destroy literally all credibility you might have built for yourself. You make your own appointments on a case-by-case basis, don't you? The common wage slave signs a single agreement and suddenly has another human being telling him where he has to be for X hours out of every week. Don't even tell me that's the same as your situation.
>>54013693Even NEETs understand this concept, Anon. It's not something that has to do with experience, but with consideration. In my experience a lot of people consider social events to be secondary, and take more liberties with them. And to an extent, that's acceptable. Because frankly, a lot less rides on your ass showing up to the game.It's when people start taking too many liberties that it becomes annoying. I know this guy who will pull the "I have other plans" excuse way too often, and it's infuriating. Mostly because it's self-serving. I've seen that dude leave a close friend's birthday party to smoke weed on his own. I've had him blow me off because he needed "alone time" despite being there for him every day of the week when he went through shit himself.I think it comes down to the person, and the environment they're used to. My other friends are maybe not very punctual, but I know I can count on them. We dislike flaking, in the end, because it's self-serving.
>>54013796No, but the post implied that only wage slaves are limited to these "have to be here at xx:xx or you're fired". You should never no-show, at any point in your life. The least you could do is give them a call the second you know you will be delayed/prevented from showing up. >Setting my own appointments You have never worked with customers in a service business before, have you?
>>54009029Conversely, if you're not willing to make a commitment that everyone else is, why should they keep you around?
>>54013785Maybe, but I don't want to lose the group, it is literally what is getting me through every week, knowing that our weekly game night is always on. I know for sure that my players would force me to take a break, no matter what I say. I would much rather just keep going and say nothing, and try to deal with my issues in the work side of my life instead.
>>54009029You are an idiot. People are planning and making sure to meet up on time, and you decide to no-show because... what, exactly? "Fuck you I didn't feel like it?"
>>54013775>Now, control your power level, we're in a game store.Oh fuck, my sides.
>>54013831>You have never worked with customers in a service business before, have you?It's all I ever do. I'm self-employed as well. My customers don't tell me when to work, they ask whether I'm available.>You should never no-show, at any point in your life.Whatever. Fine. I'm not even sure why you feel the need to make this point.>No, but the post implied that only wage slaves are limited to these "have to be here at xx:xx or you're fired". Uh, no. Don't equate every kind of appointment you might make to the hierarchical relationship between a wage slave and an employer.
>>54007981Do you at least mention it to them before hand?If they're just oblivious they might take the lack of comments to mean what they're doing is okay. Typically people try to fix things once its mentioned to them. And it gives you more safe room when you kick them out because its not out of the blue.
>>54014003>Whatever. Fine. I'm not even sure why you feel the need to make this point.probably because you, or the post you're defending, was being an edgy fucklord about attendance not matteringturns out that if you don't show up to the shit you said you would, people don't like it and won't do that shit with you anymore - no matter the situation.
>>54007948"your GF is not allowed to game night dude, she is fucking annoying and disrupting the game and you act like a faggot when she is here"
>>54012008>>54010536>>54010799>>54010938A bunch of things to consider from the game:- It was a homebrew system, which would give changing rules on the fly even worse taste.- It wasn't a headshot, it was a 300m shot at a thing sized as a golf ball that was on the inside of a flat footed body. That said, the character's firearms/perception skills are completely ridiculous to the point they can see a few hundred meters through the walls. They also enchanted the bullet to do vastly more damage than rifle rounds are meant to do, thus bypassing the mechanics in place against trying that kind of a thing, and rolled stupid high damage to tie it up.- If the shot failed to kill, they'd get immediately swarmed by faggotbird familiars screaming sound waves of fuck you which were present in the area, whilst having zero defensive capabilities, not even being a combat character at all, and still in system shock from having undergone emergency resurrection less than an hour earlier, hence them being separated from the party to begin with.So we went with "The character considered it and decided it's not worth the high likelihood of failure, because automatic hit at nat 10 out of cover should probably not apply to completely ridiculous called shots like this but I didn't write that anywhere, because you are using a school of magic that's not supposed to be available to players to accomplish this and your sheet (genuinely accidentally) has like twenty points more than it should have, because we are not even sure lorewise if this thing is even present in the material realm before the body is destroyed, because it would wreck every other character arc as well as the main storyline."Then we had a big fat boss fight with the villian flying away screaming revenge instead, and it was cool, but I still feel bad about it. I would have asspulled DR for the person and gone with it only cracking, if it was an option, but it wasn't.
>>54014050Yeah. This was after multiple conversations and attempts to bring it to their attention which hadn't helped the situation at all.
>>54013775>Now, control your power level, we're in a game store."
>>54007948>Knock off the mid-game bitching about how I run the game. If you have a problem, that's what the after-game questions, comments, and concerns is for. Use it for onceIt was with new people, who I have never met before, and I was apprehensive of them throwing a big enough shit fit that'd explode the group and my game altogether.
>>54007948>"...you fail to save her"
>>54007948Sarah, please don't put your finger up my ass again. It hurt last time.
>player has a really cool and thought out plan to deal with some bullshit, albeit somewhat risky>tell them to roll for it>they roll absolutely garbage>have to tell them they failed, even though i really fucking liked their plansResisting the urge to fudge shit is really fucking hard sometimes.
>>54015473As a general principle, I think you should only roll if there's an interesting consequence to both success and failure. If a player has an awesome plan and it completely falling through would just be dull? Then the roll isn't for whether they succeed, it's for whether there are additional consequences or costs as part of the success.
>>54015530That's probably a good philosophy. I'm fairly new at GMing and still trying to get the hang of it, so I should probably keep that in mind.
>>54008313>>54008304I get both of your stupid jokes.
>>54013527>Do you consider preparing a session improv, or are you just randomly mentioning these two things in the same sentence?I feel that pulling a session out of your ass in an afternoon as a fledgling GM shows similar skills as improvising on the spot, so it was less than a random mentioning, but no they aren't really the same thing.
>>54007948"Look, dude, I get it, you want to name your character after another person and make that character a complete whore for whatever fucking reason. But please, tone it down a bit, I don't need to hear your character's obsession with cock every five minutes."He left soon after that.
I've had to call the police on some asshole who broke shit when I told him the monster was immune to magic missile. He had based his character around ONLY using magic missile so I don't know what he expected.
>>54007948>"Sorry guys it's been literally months since I last ran a session for this game, it's pretty clear I'm not cut out for this GMing business"
>>54016151If you think that's surprising, you should hear the story about the time an Exalted writer did that with a canon NPC.
>>54016194Are you talking about Harmonious Jade? I thought she just had a running gag of getting the shit beaten out of her by mooks?
>>54016398I honestly can't remember her real name. It was an Abyssal nicknamed 'Chaintits', given that the only thing she wore on her chest was a chain running through a pair of nipple rings.Apparently she was based upon one of the writers exes and as such he wrote her to be a total slut full of disease, just wanting to spread it and corrupt people with her influence. Some pretty creepy, awful and offensive stuff, honestly.
>>54016455The Lady of Darkness in Bloodstained Robes, originally Rose Petals Parted. Harmonious Jade is the Solar night caste who gets toyed with by non-combatants.
>>54016626>Rose Petals Parted
>>54011021>physicallyYou meant emotionally.
>>54016789You meant literally.
>>54016806no, he meant figuratively.
>>54008103>"I won't be able to make it this week">Everyone asks why>"I'm in the hospital"They all knew how I got there, and they all visited which was really nice, but we didn't play my campaign again for a long time.That was a hard fuckin' year man.
>>54017099Someone needed a potion of cure light wounds
>>54010290>actually retconning a perfectly logical event because MUH PLOTYou're a faggot, but your player is an even bigger faggot for actually saying they'd kick someone out for doing it to them and their oversensitive little bitch pussy.
>>54010194Worst GM of all times right here, 10 times worse than this one >>54010290
>>54011021What the fuck man? Why would anyone do this?
>>54012277Why wouldn't you tell them that its because you haven't slept due to work? you retarted or something?
>>54012898lmao, fucking commies always being retarded kek
>>54013470>It was less about being inflexible than it was about having the entire session undone in a few minutes.Why in the name of God, our lord and savior, would you design an entire session around "players will take this route because of reasons", why would you do that?
>>54017532Would you want to play in a game with someone dead set on pidgeon holing your PC?
>>54007948>I'm sorry you've put all this work amd backstory into your new character concept but I just rolled two crits so they're dead from massive damage.Just kidding. I love killing my players. My rule zero is that stupidity must be punished.
>>54013796>wage slave>wage slave>wage slave>>54013358>wage slave>>54008887>Attendance should only matter up till middle school.NEET detected. GET A JOB YOU LAZY FUCK.What's that? You tried, but 'attendance only matters until middle school' means you didn't have any qualifications?You didn't even show up on time for your first shift?God, you're pathetic.>>54007948>"If you don't stop that shit I'm not going to run this game for you."> "Nope, you were warned. No more game. How about we play DnD next week?"> "No, seriously, pay fucking attention when I'm talking, I'm the GM."> "No, I already TOLD you that, but you were busy texting. Give me your phone."> "Yes, I clicked my fingers at you like a dog, because it's YOUR FUCKING TURN and you weren't paying attention. No I won't apologise. Fuck off if you're not going to take this seriously."> "Sorry guys, I can't run the game this week. The cat got in and pissed on the rulebook, and it fucking stinks. Game suspended until I can get a new one."
My players once faced a powerful dragon called Myrkveturfjallsomethingsomethingdyr. It felt the urge to introduce itself at the beginning of combat.
>>54017273How's that Gryhawk campaign treating you, my grognard friend?
>>54013873>>54013888I meant the opposite of what you thought I was saying, retards, follow the reply chain before you post.
>>54007948Had to kick a dude out of the group. Guy was constantly angry because of other problems in his life, couldn't take a joke (even though he made jokes at the expense of others), had a lawful good character that killed freaking innocent people and got mad at people that pointed it out, was a very shitty friend that lied constantly.These reasons are merely scratching the surface of why we kicked him out. I'm friends with the for little more than 10 years, but I hope I don't have to sit through him playing that fucking paladin again.
>>54018765What's up with players thinking they can go around murdering innocents for little to no reason and still be Good?I've got a person in my game who thinks they're Chaotic Good, while at the same time feeling it's entirely in their right to murder literally anyone who slightly inconveniences them
>>54013130Poor Neckbeards have their cerebrum connected to their dick
>>54017487>Worst GM of all times right hereOuch.I can't really argue in my defense.It was just the once and I got better though, really.>>54017684>Why in the name of God, our lord and savior, would you design an entire session around "players will take this route because of reasons", why would you do that?Why did Harry and Ron steal a flying car rather than just send an owl?To get into my retarded mindset, imagine the goal was to get some cheese.So I put the cheese in the center of a maze, design several ways in, several paths through, and even a rough idea on how to handle it if they climb on top of the walls.Then the players say they'll just go to the store for some cheese.It's like that, only much, much stupider.I expected multiple paths, but forgot to get them to the door.Plus, I had a 14 year old's concept of plot development.I think Xena was quality storytelling for me at the time.
>>54007948"Oh... I guess everyone is down and out. With only a few HP left on the boss monster."Full disclosure is pain sometimes.
how about kicking someone for failing their charisma check ?
>>54018800Because video games
>>54019522>Kicking a player due to bad RNGExplain
>>54018800He thought he was justified in doing every single one of these things. He was a dragonborn and constantly threatened, tortured and even, as I said before killed an innocent.I could go into detail about every one of those but I'll explain the innocent part.We were chasing down this vampire cult that had infiltrated a castle town. After some runnning around and my character nearly getting buttloved by a vampire, we found an underground net of tunnels that the bloodsuckers used. We got in and killed and routed most vampires but we found the body of a victim that was just bitten and transformed into one of them.We tried talking to her and she was fully aware of her surroundings and spoke clearly to us. So we decided to help her cope with her unwanted vampirism. The paladin had great Heal skill and we decided he should help her recuperate and we explicitely told him about 5 times "Don't use Lay on Hands or anything of that nature, because you'll just kill her." He looked at us nodded and told the DM "I use Lay on Hands on her.".The DM just looked really sorrily at us and told the table "She dies from the holy radiance". Everybody was just freaking flabbergasted at how stupid and stubborn that motherfucker was and as my character (and me) angrily chased down and killed every single vampire, the paladin huffed and had the nerve to say "Now he's going to get pissy because of that".I swear to god, dude had no idea of what roleplaying motherfucking means.
>>54019741Sorry, but I'm going to have to side with the paladin here. It's a goddamn vampire, there's literally nothing wrong with killing it.
>>54019691Explaining a joke kills it, but okcharisma .. charismatic; you don´t want assholes in your party
>>54019424I can do you one worse. We had literally killed ourselves bringing the boss monster down into the negatives, total party wipe, but hey, the bastard was down and out right?DM rolls his dice and he says. "He made his fort save."Mere text cannot properly describe how fucking unhappy he sounded about it.What makes it worse, if I had just stood back and let the idiots DIE with their dumb suicide bomb, I could have hit the down BBEG with a Coup De Grace and saved the goddamn world. Instead, I charged the bastard and hit him with an attack that didn't even bypass his DR before we all exploded.
>>54019789No, man, fuck that. Killing someone that does harm and is just out to slake their thirst is one thing. If you read the story that's what we were all doing all along, but this chick had nothing to do with the whole story and we were fully aware that she was just caught in the crossfire. Every single one of our characters are veterans and experienced adventurers and we explained to her there was ways of living her life without doing any harm to another sentient being. Justice is to be applied on a case-to-case basis not to be dished out without thought, and at that point is not even Justice, it's simple murder.She didn't want the curse and was willing to not harm anyone else. Fuck your broad strokes.
>>54019934It's not murder when they're already dead, anon.
>>54019789This.At that point, it was a mercy kill. Naught but the mightiest magics can unmake a turned vampire, you can't just reform them, and if the option is either let it go to become a terror when it's new nature takes hold or putting it down, I, as my group's resident paladin, would pray for her soul, do the deed, and provide weregild to her family.What else can you fucking do? The Best Way is sometimes beyond you, and The Only Way is all you have left.
>>54019789>>54020004>sticking to unfounded assumptions about the setting even when directly contradictedYou are That Guy.
>>54017743I won't be surprised if anon meant "why would he act like shit toward the character, gossip and generally be an ass" but I may be wrong.
>>54020111Nothing you've said about the setting contradicts the fact that undead monsters such as vampires deserve to be put to rest in the slightest, idiot.
>>54020213Not a samefag and you need to work on your reading comprehension.>Every single one of our characters are veterans and experienced adventurers and we explained to her there was ways of living her life without doing any harm to another sentient being.
>>54020111I can think of settings on one hand that can cleanse the taint of vampirism, anon. And unless the players had that kind of power in spades, because in all of those settings you need fucking bookoo juice, they had no resort that wouldn't put others in extreme jeopardy.And yes, OP said paladin, that implies D&D, and in no version of D&D is vampirism something you can do away with easily.If they were a lycanthrope, that would be a different story. Don't get belligerent when you are speaking from a position of the absolute most hopeful position.
>>54020305They knew it was possible outside the realm of theory for a vampire to be harmless fuck tard, ergo an immediate death sentence was unjustified.
>>54020299And every day would be a struggle that if a meter of ground was given, could give way.I believe in hope, but hope should not come at the expense of those who rely on heroes to protect them.
>>54020333It's not a death sentence, anon. You can't kill someone who is already dead. The most you can do is put them to rest so their soul may be at peace.
>>54020319>>54020336It's fine if you believe that it's okay to kill people for crimes they have neither committed nor have shown intent to commit but if you were a paladin I'd make your ass fall on the spot for taking the easy way out.
>>54019337Well I'm glad you got better, but really, you should never stop a session just because the players fucked you over, just roll with it
>>54020333At what cost and risk?You can "tame" a tiger, but it's still a beast, and the veneer of docility is thing at best.Like I said, being a hero means making some hard choices, you don't need to like it, but you don't need to be a hero, either.>>54020393>easy way>no other option that doesn't put those who can't fight back at perilThen you would also make the paladin fall if rehabilitation ever, in the vampire's immortal life, failed, and became the monster every impulse in her body demands her to be.Congrats, you just made a paladin falls catch 22, so fuck off.
>>54019691You dumb cuck, he is saying that he is kicking someone because he, as a human being, fails the charisma check because his stats are too low and the roleplays like shite
>>54019337>It was just the once and I got better though, really.Good to see someone still learns from their mistakes; at least you know why you were shit.And knowing is half the battle.
>>54020436This is why Hard Choices fags are the worst. You think your shit doesn't stink like everyone else's.>put those who can't fight back at perilShow me where the active and imminent threat is.
>>54020484>Show me where the active and imminent threat is.A true vampire out on their own that by existing is a threat to the average person, and by allowing to go free, you are now responsible for.Unless you feel the players should literally babysit her for the rest of her unnatural life?I never said it was a good choice, but sometimes you need to work with what you have, and understand the nature of what you are dealing with.If the players had the tools to deal with it, sure, but if this is D&D, those tools are in the hands of the truly mighty, and often beyond the players.Like I said, assuming the best possible circumstance is a fool's game that turns on you, and if you are wrong, it's not you who suffers from your miscall. Go shitpost elsewhere.
Guys, original innocent-paladin-killer poster here.Remove Affliction can cure a Dark Spawn.We later revived her and performed the ritual and she got better. The paladin didn't help nor pay for any components for those rituals.There really is no room for argument here, she could be saved from the start, and the paladin was rash and inconsequent.
>>54020536>by existing is a threat to the average personYou're sticking to an assumption even when proven wrong. You are That Guy.
>>54020393>It's fine if you believe that it's okay to kill people for crimes they have neither committed nor have shown intent to commit but if you were a paladin I'd make your ass fall on the spot for taking the easy way out.It's not PEOPLE, it's a goddamn vampire. If you'd really make a Paladin fall for killing a vampire, then you're a terrible GM.
>>54019934>Every single one of our characters are veterans and experienced adventurers and we explained to her there was ways of living her life without doing any harm to another sentient being.This whole thing is dependent upon whether reformed vampires are a plausible and theoretical possibility in the setting or an actual, concrete reality.If they cold have sent her to Jerimiah the Peaceful Vampire Hermit to learn to control her new hunger, that's one thing.If their plan was to pat her on the head and tell her she has hope of not becoming a soulless killer, then the paladin had the right idea.It really, really depends on the setting.>>54020393>I'd make your ass fall on the spot for taking the easy way out.But this is shit unless "taking the easy way out" was his deity's pet peeve.
>>54020548>proven wrongWhat proof, anon?What was said was that there was a possibility of trying to stay on the straight and narrow, but you don't even know what that is, but insist it will work, whereas my assumption is based on what the vast majority of settings says about vampires.You have nothing, and this is your last (you) from me.
>>54007948>she doesn't have a penis
>>54020565>>54020589>all vampires in all settings are always the sameI hope you also play with a table full of grognards like yourself because otherwise you are probably That Guy.
>>54020548>if I scream loud enough long enough, that means I win the argumentGo kill yourself retard.
>>54020431>you should never stop a session just because the players fucked you overI stopped the session because the achieved the win condition in less than half the alotted time and the whole thing was intentionally crafted as an isolated one-shot.But yeah, I coulda done literally anything else.
>>54020606Literally nothing >>54019741 said indicates that vampires in the setting are different in any way that matters.
>>54012594Your problem isn't drinking faggot, it's accountability.
>>54020632It's not my fault you're bad at reading.
>>54020461My immediate mental response to having nothing else prepared or improvised was "It took me an hour to write so I thought it would take an hour to play!"So very sad.
>>54020547>>54020580His deity is Bahamut, so I guess killing someone that could be helped kinda constitutes some sort of punishment. The DM said he had half a mind to do it but didn't want to derail the campaign.And also, do mind what I say in the tagged post.
>>54020656I can read perfectly fine, you're just an idiot who apparently thinks Twilight vampires are the default.
>>54020656He is right, it literally doesn't, if anything that post proves they are just like any other vampire.The party was killing bloodsuckers on a daily basis. A new vampire had just been born. It was the right thing to kill it while its weak
>>54020547Welp, there you go.
>>54020548You are both theoretically wrong and wrong in this specific instance.>>54020536>Unless you feel the players should literally babysit her for the rest of her unnatural life?More or less the best Good option, with variations, for the hypothetical scenario.
>>54010938>>54010290Something like this, but do what Call of Duty did (yes, I know, the perfect game to take story ideas from) and make it so the bad guy just took the shot in an arm or leg, giving them more reason to be against the PCs, and making it so the shot actually meant something
>>54020759Read the thread.
>http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kentucky-woman-apparently-devoured-wolf-dogs-article-1.1467385>Kentucky woman devoured by her wolf petsThis is you, vampire apologist. This is your future. The paladin did nothing wrong, the party and GM are retarded, a good GM would have fucked the party in the ass for bringing her back.
>>54020843Read the thread, retard.
>>54020864>readingGet a life.
>>54020804Huh.Not sure how I got turned around there.You are clearly not wrong in this specific instance.But in grneral, if a lady gets turned into a vampire, she becomes a potential threat, even in Twilight.Killing a peaceful behaving victim of a vampire is less than Good.Letting a potential killer vampire go free is also less than Good.Worst case scenario, I'd let her go and track her down right after business was done, hoping for the best.
>>54020878>reading>newsGosh, sure seems normie in here. Go back to fucking your beautiful wife and working your more-than-average paying job, we are discussing make believe in here.
>>54020924If we're playing make-believe, can we discuss your beautiful wife and more-than-average paying job?
>>54019821This makes ME sad.
>>54012611>NEETs shouldn't be hereDon't tell /r9k/
>>54019821But you all got an epic story to share, so congratulations.
>>54020843 Then good thing you are not my good GM, anon ;)
>>54015921Holy shit that player is retardedDoes he even know what the Shield spell does?
"I want you here but your girlfriend refuses to put any effort in, and when I boot her she makes things difficult for us and goes out of her way to monopolize your time so I have to treat you like a package deal. You can come hang out, but if she or you derail things I'll have to stop that too."And then it stopped being difficult and I had one of the most fun campaigns of my life. I wish people could be objective and self-aware, I'd have more friends that way.
>>54007948Im sorry, I cant run game anymore. Its too stressful. Even though I love you all, I never want to do it again.
>>54019741This is why I explicitly allow my players to "cancel" one guy's stupid decisions by unanimity minus one.>I kill that one NPC the other players all want to helpNo you don't, this is a group game and the fun of four people is worth more than yours. I don't care if your fun is right and everyone else's is wrong, you can just leave.
>>54007948>I know your character wants a romance arc but GOD DAMN IT I DON'T WANT TO ROLEPLAY A GAY DWARF STOP HITTING ON NPCS
>>54021155How exactly is it a "stupid decision", are you retarded?
>>54021191Go to bed Gaider, you're drunk
>>54021248It was a stupid decision within the context of anon's game because, as specified, there is a very real in-universe way to cure vampirism, and the other party members were willing to take that risk, you double faggot.But honestly it doesn't matter whether the decision is stupid or not. Your decision can be the most brilliant shit ever, if the other players don't like it one bit, you're not doing it at my table.
>>54021303>punishing brilliant ideas because you don't like themGreat way to promote role playing, pal!>if the other players don't like it one bit, you're not doing it at my table.Thank god I don't play in Stalin's table. Dictatorships like yours are the fucking worst and go against anything TTRPG stands for.
>>54007948"You've been upsetting everyone else at the table repeatedly. You'll need to find a new group to game with."
>>54021345And Stalin thanks god you don't play at his table.Go be contrarian somewhere else.
"If you bring drugs into my house again I WILL make you regret it"She did.
>>54021384>stalin>thanks godAHAHAHAHAHA you ignorant fuck, there is nothing contrarian about opposing dictatorships like yours, asshole. Learn to play TTRPGs.
>>54021423Cry some more, little baby
>>54021419>muh puritan houseGrow a pair.>>54021432Really clever, Mao.
>>54021453Keep crying, babyman
>>54021473Oh, your wittiness is reach!. You actually have no way to defend yourself, am I right? You know you run a dictatorship like fucking Hitler, you know you are wrong, but you are too much of a fucking coward to man up to it and change your views. You are everything wrong with modern GMs.
>>54021527>Literally Alex JonesWHAT IS HITLER WHAT IS STALIN WHAT IS MAO
>>54021345>let's save that vampire and redeem it with the vampire redeeming magic that exists in this universe>NO I WANNA KILL IT. LET ME KILL IT.That's not "brilliant", that's just another plan. Nothing more.Even if it was brilliant, I wouldn't fucking care. Not everything is about you. If you being able to smugly masturbate to how much of a genius you are and how right and smart you are comes at the cost of four other people's medium-term fun then it's not gonna happen.Not everything is about you. And being told "no" because the other players aren't on board is not literal dictatorship, it's enforcing common fucking courtesy. Go ahead and find a table where every player ruins every other player's plan for the sake of petty power trips. I certainly don't miss gaming with people like you.
I had a player who was way more interested in combat than the rest of the group. He would usually not pay any attention to anything that wasn't combat. The sole exception was that he would interject and talk over people sometimes to intentionally screw up another player's attempts to talk things out, in the hopes that it would lead to combat.Eventually I had to kick him out of the group. It was hard because he was friends with all of us outside the group, it's just that playing any sort of RPG brought out this impatient and kind of nasty side of him that made him willing to spoil everyone else's fun just to skip right to the part that he liked.
>>54021527Waaaaaah, waaah. Keep crying, little babyman.
Blah, that's why I dislike when stuff like morality isn't discussed beforehand. Either you have objective set of tules regarding morality or you allow characters to go by their personal set of rules which you may personally disagree with but they pass as long as they're not blatant disregard for alignment.I know of great paladin characters who were truly selfless, peaceful and charitable, truly saints in silver armor but I know of some great paladin characters who were also willing to burn a village, since they honestly believed that it's a necessary act for far greater good and to not commit it would be shirking their duty.Either type can actually be complete shit. Former turned into dull, flat character that's just tiresome, latter turning into complete murderhobo asshole. But if the player's roleplaying them decently and not trying to "play the system" I allow either and usually the results are for the better.
>>54021570Literally who? Read a book nigger.>>54021573>That's not "brilliant",I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about this >>54021303>Your decision can be the most brilliant shit everyou dumb fuck>Not everything is about you.Yeah, its about you. Really fucking sweet, Stalin. Just send any opposition to the Gulag.> it's enforcing common fucking courtesyThis is fucking imaginary line. If we are at a bar, and you tell me to not pick up that glass. I can CHOOSE to pick it up anyway, regardless of your fucking feelings. If you want to wrestle about it, you do it in the medium itself. That's democracy, you have a right to CHOOSE.You fucking Maoposter.>>54021603Only on /tg/ you could find such low specimens that are too afraid to speak up
>>54021345>reading comprehesion GOIt wasn't a great idea though. It was estabilished by the poster that killing her was not the best course of action.
>>54021666Yeah, reading comprehension. Learn to fucking read, I don't give a fuck about this vampire shit, we aren't talking about that. READING COMPREHENSION
>>54021673Oh man, someone's fricking triggered over here.
>>54021683Yeah, its you. You got triggered right before you decided to reply to me.
>>54021345> the rest of the group can overrule one person's decision if all of them vote to do so> Dictatorships like yoursIsn't that the exact opposite of a dictatorship? In a dictatorship, it's one person overruling the wishes of everyone else. In this case, it's everyone else voting to overrule one person.
>>54021648>Literally who?I refuse to believe that someone with as big of a boner for fascist dictators as you doesn't know who Alex Jones is
>>54021648Keep crying, baby. Cry some more.
>>54021693You realize that not all anons who start to complain about you coming off as a pretentious cunt are the ones you were arguing with? I didn't have stake in the whole discussion but you do seem to be getting progressively more mad, with your posts devolving to name-calling, strawman and "no u".
>>54021708No, it's the same thing. In both cases you're not letting people do what they want to do. It doesn't matter if it's done by a vote or by a dictator. Democracy is just two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
>>54021708Spoken like a true ignorant, dictatorships are run by a group of individuals protecting the power they have taken for themselves. No dictatorship is run alone. Stalin murdered his partner, and soon after Stalin was murdered himself for being a traitor to the inner circle.You are too dumb to debate me, Maoposter.>>54021721He is a dictator? For how many years did he rule and which country does he own or owned? >>54021725When you are so pathetic you can't even believe you could be wrong. That's who you are.>>54021728Oh yeah? Because this post of yours sounds awfully pretentious to me. Like, you are literally projecting your own madness into me, your own fucking insecurities are being projected on me right in this post you claim to not be pretentious.Get a grip on reality, man. You are a triggered shitlord, and you should own it.
>>54021784>you're not letting people do what they want to doThat has literally nothing to do with whether something is a dictatorship or notDo you need a dictionary, anon?
>>54021830He is right, you know. The whole D&D motto is that you can do anything, you are free. In anon's game, you can't do anything, you are ruled by a biased entity. That's pretty much a dictatorship, or a tyranny by the majority democratic system. Both cases are awful and go against what the genre is about.
>>54021803>Like, you are literally projecting your own madness into meAside from this not making much sense since my reasoning is hardly mad, you go on about insecurities and other buzzwords. There's no space for projecting insecurities if my post comes down to "calm down and stop acting like an asshole". Also, you again go with "no u", ending your shit with "you're triggered shitlord" still assuming people, including me are the ones you were arguing with. I am not, I don't give a shit about your paladin and vampire dilemma, I just hope you will learn to rein your autism. Kinda disappointing, the whole thing, really.
>>54021803> dictatorships are run by a group of individuals protecting the power they have taken for themselvesIf you have a group made up of 5 individuals and 4 of them want option A while 1 of them wants option B, them voting 4-to-1 for option A isn't a dictatorship. Dictatorship has a real definition, it's not just whatever you don't like.
>>54021851So you literally never say no when you DM?Are you retarded or just trolling
>>54021877> them voting 4-to-1 for option A isn't a dictatorshipBzzzt. Wrong. It is a dictatorship. That's a textbook case of tyranny of the majority.
>>54007948>"Guys, I completely wrote myself into a corner and I have idea where to go from here."
>>54021881When I say no, I say no with rationale. This: >>54021877and this: >>54021303is not rationale. >>54021877Again, that's a fucking dictatorship. If you are not allowed to have an opinion, or you are censored (in this case, your actions are censored), then you are under a dictatorship. It is not what DnD is about, the spirit of the game is to let players take actions and then the GM deals with their actions with consequences.You never go "No, because I don't like it" , "no, because here we run a 'democracy' and nobody likes you so we all vote against you". That's literal tyranny and not the way to play the game.
>>54021899"Dictatorship" does not mean what you think it means"Tyranny of the majority" does not mean what you think it meansAt this point I'm not even sure you know what "textbook" even means
>>54021861Fuck, I forgot to reply to you. Just kill yourself, I don't give a fuck, if you don't want to attack me then fuck off m8. I'm fighting for the greater good here.
>>54021899>buzzwords: the post
>>54021949Learn what "dictatorship" means before returning to this discussion
>>54021956Why do you feel the need to reply to shit you don't know ANYTHING about?>Tyranny of the majority involves a scenario in which decisions made by a majority place its interests above those of an individual or minority group, constituting active oppression comparable to that of a tyrant or despot>Dictatorship: absolute authority in any sphere.Read a fucking book nigger, stop showing how much of an ignorant piece of shit you are. Libraries are free.
>>54020484Now have your more merciful players explain to the widow that they had a change to stop the vampire that killed her husband first.. Any blood on her hands washes of onto theirs
>>54021998How about you learn it retard? I LITERALLY lived in a dictatorship. Fuck your dictator mindset, you should be hanged.
>>54022000Waaaaaaaaah cry more baby>>54022021fucking lolmaybe that's why you're such a dumb cunt
>>54021949Limiting free reign of a person who wrecks fun for everyone who agreed to play together for the sake fun is not dictatorship. Same with every other group undertaking where someone causes trouble and has to be managed. RPG sessions and most other group activities do need certain ground rules of courtesy and cooperation and if someone is too ignorant, stupid or malicious to go with them, they should be cut off.Also, I like to visit /pol/ but I hate it when /pol/ visits /tg/. Leave your shit back at your board instead of derailing the whole thread.
>>54022016Read the thread.
>>54022021> You should be hanged for saying things I don't like.> No, you're the dictator!
>>54021971> if you don't want to attack me then fuck off m8So you admit you're literally here to cause shit and exchange insults with people? That's not fighting for greater good, that's being a shitlord in the thread on my chinese cartoons imageboard.
>>54022021You didn't live under a dictatorship.
>>54022037Said the guy that doesn't know words he should have learned in fucking middleschool. Yeah go back to memespouting, its the only thing you can do right.>>54022044>literally vouching for limiting human rightsHoly fuck. Fun is a subjective thing, you cannot just rule over people based on a subjective level. Stalin, please stop this shit. The paladin that killed the vampire wasn't ignorant, stupid, or malicious. He was doing what the paladin and any person with any brains would do. If you enjoy /pol/ just stay the fuck there.Take your dictatorship mindset with you to /pol/, and stay the fuck there. Not surprised a piece of shit /pol/ster is a fucking Stalinist.>>54022058Kill yourself.
>>54022021>>54022000Hey, guys. We're not fucking running a country, we're playing a game. A group game. One guy does not get to ruin everything for everyone else. Shut up
>>54022107But apparently kicking that guy out is a dictatorship. Haven't you been reading the thread, anon?
>>54022103I didn't? Thanks a lot for letting my know my past 30 years have been an illusion! You are so fucking clever.>>54022107When you play a game like you run a country, and you take your game into the trash for the same reasons people run a country into the trash. Then yes, we should analyze what you do that is fucking wrong.Also, a country is a group 'game' too. >One guy does not get to ruin everything for everyone elseSo its okay when the GM does it? Fucking maoposters
>>54021784>Democracy is just two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
>>54011249People have survived crazier, like a literal metal spike from a railroad track going through their chin and through their brain.
>>54022105>WAAAAAH I CAN'T RUIN MY D&D GAME YOU'RE VIOLATING MY HUMAN RIGHTS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHfucking lol
>>54022133Name the country and post an image of your passport.Oh, except you can't because by "dictatorship" you meant your parents' household.
>>54022133>my past 30 years have been an illusion!you're probably not even 20 yet
>>54022133Oh. You're literally retarded. Okay, well, nice talking to you
>>54022141People botch suicides every day by aiming at the same angle as Gage's railroad spike, but I'd wager the majority of gunshots in anger come from either on the level or from higher elevation.
>>54022152>human rights don't matterHi Chavez.>>54022164>>54022174If I'm not even 20 then how do you explain that you are ignorant about this whole subject? You didn't even know what the word dictator meant.You guys do realize that the soviet union fell in the early 90s right? You guys do realize Chavez died in 2013? You guys do realize Pinochet stepped down in early 90s right?You people think you are so fucking clever with your meaningless insults, living in your American lives thinking the whole world always lived like yours. You are a fucking disgrace of human evolution.
>>54022223Name your country and post your passport.
>>54022103>You didn't live under a dictatorship.Sure he did.I can't believe you guys haven't figured it out yet.Clearly, he suffers from an impairment where he replaces words with "dictatorship", like Smurfs do with "smurf".I suspect the "dictatorship" he lived under, we would call "powerlines".
>>54022223Oooh, you finally Googled some dictator names other than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao! I'm so proud of you anon.
>>54022139He is fucking right, literally every democracy give you choices, and both choices are the same coin with switches sides.>>54022232Not necessary, also what kind of moron do you take me from that I would post my passport, a traceable photo, or anything related to my name? Are you fucking insane?
>>54022223>complains about American lack of perspective>believes "fun" is a human right
>>54022240He apparently thinks that any system where people aren't allowed to do whatever they want is a dictatorship. So by his definition pretty much any human society on the planet, current or historical, is a dictatorship.
>>540222624chan automatically removes metadata from images. Post your country and the cover of your passport.
>>54022248Just because YOU have to google names doesn't mean I have to. Chavez wasn't relevant because he was elected, and then stole the power for himself. Up until now there was no case where I would mention him, until you decided to insult human rights. Chavez didn't give a shit about human rights.
>>54022290>until you decided to insult human rightsshow us on the doll where the good DM told you 'no'
>>54022290"I can do whatever I want and no one can stop me" isn't a human right.
>>54022289You sure convinced me! Dumbass. I gave you 3 countries, I'm from one of those. Pick whatever you like, we all lived similarly.>>54022304Right here:>>54021303When this chucklenigger decided to say this>But honestly it doesn't matter whether the decision is stupid or not. Your decision can be the most brilliant shit ever, if the other players don't like it one bit, you're not doing it at my table.It triggered my childhood hard.
>>54022328Post the specific one and prove that you were ever a citizen.
>>54022105First, you need to learn to not abuse strawman fallacy, it makes you seem retarded. Second, you need to learn a bit more about /pol/ since it went completely over your head why I told you to leave it back there as yes, it's you going crazy with politics here. Third, you need to manage your idiocy and stop assuming things about people. Fourth, understand that "dictatorship" is a good label to throw around but in a society of individuals with different opinions and attitudes, certain limits and rules have to be introduced so things will work out.People gathered to play a session. While the paladin could be managed differently, to say that them having an issue with the guy and his actions and doing something about it for the sake of preserving enjoyment of the game for the majority is dictatorship strains the boundaries in which the term was meant to be used. The guy has a right to drop them and move on and so do they. Voting by majority you can label that dictatorship as well but it still one of the best, time-tested and opposing tyranny way of conflict-solving.Fun is subjective, sure, but agreements, even unwritten in regards to what kind of fun people gathered up to seek still stand. If someone's idea of fun is incompatible, it has to be addressed otherwise no one will have fun. It wouldn't be a problem if fun of the paladin player wouldn't affect others - they could let him do his thing then - but it wasn't the case.I also lived under dictatorship when very young. It was pretty horrible but to compare that to some RPG session where the party cuts off the guy who is just not compatible with them is ridiculous and makes you look like an edgy college grad trying to push some agenda.Sort yourself out, anon.
>>54022328Why should you be allowed to force whatever you want onto the other people at the table? That sounds an awful lot like what a dictator would want.
>>54022328>It triggered my childhood hard.Alright, so you're mad that you can't childishly ruin the game for everyone else playing. Glad that's settled. Bye now!
>>54022321It actually is, unless you break the law.>>54022341Like I say, take whatever you want. You don't command me, you are not my ruler anymore. We are free people. If you think commanding me you will get anything from me, you have been understanding the wrong message here.>>54022352Yeah, which is why I'm arguing AGAINST that. The GM should not force players to cope to his game just because he doesn't like a player.
>>54022133>So its okay when the GM does it? Fucking maopostersNo, it's ot okay when GM does it but GM didn't do it. GM acted in interest of majority of the people in the group. In fact, of all people except that one guy who was causing problems.
>>54022370>The GM should not force players to cope to his game just because he doesn't like a playerThat's the opposite of what happened though
>>54022359Good bye, I hope you read some books and stop being an ignorant fuck!>>54022374GM did not act in the interest of the majority, the GM acted in the interest of his own feelings and his own view of how the story should play out. Then, and this is the problem, justify this by using tyranny of the majority to keep the paladin down and oppressed when he did what any paladin would do.The only 'fact' here, is that you are okay with dictatorships when they are in your favor, and against them when they are not. No dictatorship is ever good, no tyranny should ever be ignored.
>>54022414>GM did not act in the interest of the majority> justify this by using tyranny of the majority:thinking:
why the fuck are you guys using politcal terms for a tabletop game.they don't apply. how fucking autistic can you be?
>>54022438Alex Jones decided to come shit all over the thread and it got really funny to watch him sperg
>>54022370>It actually is, unless you break the law.How do you think laws are made?
>>54022438Because some idiot likes calling everything he doesn't like a dictatorship. Even when it's just the players trying to agree on what sort of game they want.
>>54022395It literally happened. The Paladin killed the evil character. The GM revived the character.GM forcing his dick on the group>>54022428Maybe I should have used group instead of majority in the first one. As what I meant is that the GM ignored a group, which if the average group is 4 people, then he ignored 25% of the population and sent them to the Gulag. That's tyranny.
>>54021851No, the rule he's talking about is a reduction in individual freedom, but not through dicatorship. Dictatorship would be one person overruling a player, this is everyone else overruling one player.I'm not sure what it is technically, but it's not dictatorship.
>>54022467>The GM revived the character.The players minus one revived the character and you are illiterate.
>>54022464They are made for the safety of the group to stop nutjobs like the GM here from fucking over a high number of the population of the group. And, this is the most important part, they are made with rationale and not feelings, unlike what is going on here, fun is a feeling.How do you think they are made?
>>54022467>the GM ignored a group, which if the average group is 4 people, then he ignored 25% of the population and sent them to the GulagI can't take it anymore, this is too funnyHow long are you going to keep this up?
>>54022467> GM forcing his dick on the groupNo it wasn't.All but one player didn't want to kill an NPC.One player did.That one player tried to force everyone else to go along with what he wanted.GM just sided with all the others.
>>54022486Except the rule he proposed in fact specifically stops a single player from fucking over a high number of the population of the group, while being impossible to abuse towards fucking over a high number of the population of the group because it specifically requires unanimity minus one.
>>54022477>I'm not sure what it is technically, but it's not dictatorship.It's literally democracy>the GM here from fucking over a high number of the population of the groupIt was literally one person getting overruled by EVERYONE ELSE at the table
>>54022483The GM is the one that sent them there, come on you know how this works.>>54022489Kill yourself Mao.>>54022494Again, that's 25%, you can't ignore a player. DnD is a group game, if you can't make a group decision then don't make one. That one player was in the right to make his decision. Under a logical way of thinking, he did nothing wrong, and thus, he should not be punished for it.The GM, on the other hand, made a choice based on autism, much like Castro.
>>54022544The GM doesn't send anyone anywhere because the players control their own characters.
>>54021260It may be the hardest, but it's also the smallest
>>54022515Tyranny of the majority is the opposite of what you are describing. Stop oppressing minorities.You would be in the right if the Paladin was malicious, he wasn't malicious, he wasn't stupid, he wasn't autistic. He was just doing his job.
>>54021648>I was talking about the other thingWell good thing I'm telepathic!Sometimes wrestling in the medium itself is just not possible. If the PCs are doing negotiations with the king of a hostile nation and That Guy decides to blast the king with a flashy spell, the negotiations are ruined even if the characters manage to stop him.I can't understand what point you're trying to make with that nonsense glass analogy. That you should be able to act however you want in a game of pretend because you can do what you want in the real world? That's just retarded.>It is my right to be able to literally impose my sense of what is fun on the other players even if they all dislike it, because my fun is right and everyone else's fun is badwrong and worthless and I know betterYou're the dictator, anon. It's you. Sorry to burst your bubble.
>>54022565>He was just doing his jobHis job is ruining the game for everyone else?
>>54007948"I've had better. No boots of speed for you."
>>54007948"i wont be playing here anymore"
>>54022556Not on Stalin's table. If you do that you get send straight to the Gulag. >>54021303Come on, we are getting sidetracked here.
>>54022544If you have one player out of four who is doing things to make the game less fun for everyone else because he insists that he has to have things his way, kicking him out of the group is a reasonable response. The group doesn't exist simply for one person's pleasure.
>>54022565>he wasn't malicious, he wasn't stupid, he wasn't autistic>constantly threatened, tortured and even, as I said before killed an innocent
>>54007948Had to let one of the players' gf go because she brought too much drama to the table. In hindsight, this could have been handled better but I was younger, foolish and didn't know better.
>>54008887I'd kick you because I can't involve a character in a game who isn't there, and I can't base challenges or encounters around someone unreliable.
>>54022464By dictators I bet
>>54022580No, that was the GM's job when he decided you can revive characters in the setting, making death meaningless.Also reviving a purified undead is hilarious in and by itself.>>54022574You don't know how to play pretend. Nuff said.
>>54022605> implying threats, torture, and killing aren't part of a paladin's jobGood doesn't mean nice.
>>54022618>that was the GM's job when he decided you can revive characters in the setting, making death meaninglessWhat the fuck kind of setting has vampires but no kind of revival/resurrection magic?
>>54022544>Again, that's 25%, you can't ignore a player.That's minority. Point was made that GM acted in interest of majority. In social setting, any group, there has to be a certain level of conformity if only to keep things moving forward. conflicts arise and while possibly this one was handled poorly, I also don't see any good alternative that would work if one player was adamant in doing his own shit against will of people playing with him. If we'll go with retarded and unfitting in the case terminology straight from /pol/, that one dude by trying to force his way against unwritten agreement of all parties, commits an act of terror and elected governing body, GM, has a duty to kick him out.
>>54022636The one that's actually logical.
>>54022625>torturing and killing innocents are part of a paladin's job
>>54022645> logical> a setting that has fucking vampires> but it can't have resurrection magic, because the would be illogical!
>>54022639>If we'll go with retarded and unfittingThat's the thing here though, he wasn't that. He was just doing what he had to do.I understand if you have 3 players and 1 murderhobo, the murderhobo has to go. But that scenario isn't what happened here.
>>54022650No one was killing innocents here, just a vampire, and torture could be very important part of the paladin's job if he needs information to fight evil.
>>54022659>because vampire exist then your soul should return to your body, and your body shouldn't decay!Yeah, logic. You lack that.
>>54022645Show me the formal logic you used to derive "¬∃ revival or resurrection magic" from "∃ vampires".
>>54022689>this magic thing means you can't have this other magic thing
>>54022664> He was just doing what he had to do. Except that, in-setting, he didn't have to do it. He simply resorted to killing because that's what he wanted to do, not what he needed to do. He was, in fact, a murderhobo in a group on non-murderhobos.
>>54022688The vampire was explicitly described as innocent by the GM, who is in charge of the setting and decides what is true and what is not true, and torture is an evil act because it quantifiably does not work.
>>54022711>It's magic! I ain't gonna explain shit!How to spot a shit setting right away.Magic has to follow a logical consistency with the world.
>>54022702See >>54022689If vampires exist, then resurrecting the person should be impossible.
>>54022717>in-setting, he didn't have to do itThen I hope in-setting. I hope the GM deleted the paladin class, since obviously its not needed anymore in the setting.He resorted to killing because that's what you do to vampires, you kill them.
>>54022739It does not follow. Show me where the contradiction arises between "∃ vampires" and "∃ revival or resurrection magic" such that only one statement can be true.
>>54022544So all group decisions must be unanimous?
>>54022729> The vampire was explicitly described as innocent by the GMWe have already seen that the GM is an idiot for introducing resurrection. Him inventing something as contradictory as an "innocent" vampire just shows that he's an even bigger idiot.
>>54022729>was explicitly described as innocent by the GMAbsolutely irrelevant.A vampire is not innocent. A human can be innocent. The NPC was no longer human, ergo, no longer innocent.The GM can claim the rapist orc was innocent after he found Catholicism, but the orc just isn't innocent. The GM was retarded.
>>54022759Yes? Why wouldn't group be unanimous. Have you ever gone to a trip with male friends? You don't abandon a guy just because he disagreed with you, and you don't force one guy from the group to go to places he doesn't want to go. The whole group decides to do things that everyone can participate.
>>54022782Pictured: not human, ergo not innocent, ergo deserving of death
>>54022804Yes? Wolves and wild dogs are common enemies.I bet you would cry and bitch over someone killed an egg kek. Animals can't be innocent. They are critters for killing.
>>54022802If everyone wants to go to Vegas except one guy then we don't take the guy on the trip. If he changes his mind mid-way then we'll arrange him a ride home, which happens to be way easier when booting someone out of a tabletop campaign than when going to Vegas.>>54022820Alright you got me.
>>54022802>you don't force one guy from the group to go to places he doesn't want to go.I have, and yes they do
>>54007948>you are not invitedTo a friend who I had played with previously who found out about a game I was running and immediately started asking about characters.
>>54022802Let's say I have three friends, and all four of us are hanging out. Should one of my friends be ostracized because he decided to wave a gun at a neighbor and smoke crack, even though the rest of us said it was a bad idea?
>>54022753>paladins having anything to do with killing vampiresShit setting.
>>54022835>>54022858What a shitty fucking friend. You would rather not spend time with him than change your trip goal. Your lack of loyalty disgusts me.>>54022867Yes.
>>54022729> and torture is an evil act because it quantifiably does not work.Wrong. It is not evil if it is inflicted upon an evil creature and gets you information that you need to fight evil.
>>54022877What a shitty fucking friend. You would rather not spend time with him than take up recreational brandishing and crack smoking. Your lack of loyalty disgusts me.
>>54022735Let me rephrase that then>this magic thing means THIS COMPLETELY UNRELATED MAGIC THING must ARBITRARILY NOT EXIST
>>54022886If evil creatures exist then evil acts exist and committing one upon an evil creature still makes you evil.
>>54022886"It's not evil if we do it to the bad guys! They're bad!"
>>54022906Well yes, why don't you fucking smoke crack with him?
>>54022916> THIS COMPLETELY UNRELATED MAGIC THINGBzzzt. Wrong. It's very closely related. Whether or not there are vampires in the setting says a lot about the nature of death and souls in that setting.
>Having the majority make decisions is evil and bad, kill yourself dictators>Instead, anyone who wants to do something should be able to do it, even if it hurts everyone elseFucking anarchists. They're the cancer to the fascism virus.
>>54022937What does it say? If there's "a lot" then obviously it should be very easy to spell it out for us.
>>54022925>>54022930He is going by the book there, it literally isn't evil to torture evil creatures.
>>54022937You're fucking retarded
>>54022930Yes. Your point? Good does not mean nice. If you commit evil, don't expect the forces of good to pull any punches against you.
>>54022949Every day my respect for D&D drops a rung lower.
>>54022916I'm not the one that linked vampires with resurrection though. You did, or the GM did.>>54022951>>54022947He is right
>>54022982If he's right then show me how because I still have yet to see any contradiction between "∃ vampires" and "∃ revival or resurrection magic".
>>54021851>>54021949>>54022328>In D&D you can do anything! You should be able to because of muh make believe freedoms!>Wah wah the DM wouldn't let me push another player into the spike pit for the lulz, censorship!>Wah wah the DM wouldn't let me toss the Holy McGuffin into the volcano, censorship!>Wah wah the DM wouldn't let me rape the barmaid, censorship! I AM BEING LITERALLY OPPRESSED!!!Some table have limits you self-absorbed dumbfuck. People do not want rape or betrayal or campaign-ruining shit. Some people also don't want you to destroy a plot hook or element of the world they like just because you couldn't be assed to consider feelings other than your own for a second. What's so alien about this?Right. You're literally autistic and potentially retarded (or a very dedicated baitposter, but that's essentially mental illness). So you can't understand basic social guidelines. Sorry. That was very ableist of me to say.But really. If you want to have fun in a fictional without anyone telling you no, go write a book.>>54022351This guy gets it. Watch the retard ignore this post because it's too well structured for him to misinterpret.
>>54022939If the anarchist does something stupid, make the consequences reflect that. But never punish someone just for taking his human right to make a choice. There is a reason why prisons are for rehabilitation, and not murdering grounds. If player kills character, make him choose between community service, pay a fine, or whatever you can think of that will make the player think twice in doing that again. But don't neglect his human right to make the choice.
>>54023003Vampires are undead. Resurrection brings something dead back to life. A vampire is undead, and thus isn't really alive. Resurrection does not work on something that isn't dead, and it cannot restore a vampire because the vampire doesn't have "life" that it can return to.
>>54023022>making dumb decisions in tabletop games is a human rightPut me before a UN tribunal and let me stand fucking trial, then.
>>54023014I literally didn't see that post, I actually quite figuratively scrolled up right after reading your post to check on the location of the post.Also none of your examples should be forbidden, kill yourself dictator.
>>54022982>I'm not the one that linked vampires with resurrection though. You did, or the GM did.When the flying fuck did I do that you absolute mongoloid
>>54023045See? Now you are learning how to behave. Glad we understand each other now. The GM should never go "No because I say so". I like you anon>>54023054Missing a word there, buddy.
why are so many people in this thread replying to really, really low quality baitdo you guys not have better things to do? campaigns to work on?
>>54023044How does that in any way mean that the mere existence of vampires completely rules out the existence of resurrection magic like you say it does? Should all of D&D just not exist then?
>>54023068>Missing a word there, buddy.Are you blind or can you just not read? There are no missing words you autist
>>54022729> torture is an evil act because it quantifiably does not work.Yes, which is why it has been used as a method of obtaining information for thousands of years. Because it doesn't work. All that time, no one ever realized that they weren't really getting information from people, they were just hallucinating the whole time!/sarcasm
>>54023141Are you retarded? Since the beginning of time torture has been solely used to get the tortured to confess to whatever the torturers want them to. It doesn't actually work as an interrogation tool. Never has, never will
>>54023044All you've proven is that "vampires ⊂ undead" contradicts with "resurrection spells restore vampires" given "resurrection spells only work on the dead", "undead ⊄ dead", and "destroyed undead ⊄ dead". You still haven't backed up any of those additional criteria, nor shown the contradiction between vampires existing in a setting and resurrection magic existing in a setting.
>>54022351>First, you need to learn to not abuse strawman fallacy, it makes you seem retardedWhich is the best way to make the commoners participate. If I give them a ground to reply to me, we will eventually have a discussion. Which was my goal, to have a platform to voice my opinion where I would be heard. Hopefully, changing some people's view in how to run games, and help others stop having a tunnel vision when DMing.>Second, you need to learn a bit more about /pol/ since it went completely over your head why I told you to leave it back there as yes, it's you going crazy with politics hereI have never once mentioned modern politics here. I mean I could have argued about Putin being a dictator ruling by tyranny of the majority without anyone knowing. I didn't though, because such is politics. Stalin, Mao, Chavez, Pinochet, Castro, Franco, Mussolinni, Hitler, Jorge Rafael are all dead. So not relevant to politics. >Third, you need to manage your idiocy and stop assuming things about people.See point 1. It is intentional.>Fourth, understand that "dictatorship" is a good label to throw around but in a society of individuals with different opinions and attitudes, certain limits and rules have to be introduced so things will work out.I actually regret using dictatorship instead of tyranny.And no, you are wrong, forced democracy is not the best way to handle the situation. A common understanding is. Everyone involved give their reasoning and reach a common ground, you don't force anyone out or in. You include them all.I agree the differences between fun has to be addressed, but the way to address that is not the way both the GM of the scenario nor the Stalin guy use. Which take no consideration at all about the player per se. Both just assume the player is a shitlord, when it is them who are being oppressive to him.I like you. Of course the two best posters of the thread, you and me. Have a common background.I guess dictatorship breeds brains.
>>54023141>Yes, which is why astrology has been used as a method of obtaining information for thousands of years. Because it doesn't work. All that time, no one ever realized that they weren't really predicting the future, they were just experiencing confirmation bias!
>>54023163> It doesn't actually work as an interrogation tool. Never has, never willThen why is this guy dead? Because torture really does work, and it got his flunkies to give up his location.
>>54023106Stop exaggerating son, make your point again. Less retarded this time.First of all explain resurrection is in in and by itself absolutely retarded unless your setting is like a Nordic mythology one.>>54023131Maybe I was retarded there, I'm getting tired and sleepy. Maybe its time for bed. Well you did what I said so whatever, just man it up.
>>54023221>It is intentional>jokes on them I was only pretending to be retarded
>>54023305Don't misquote me. Nothing I said was pretending to be retarded, I just admitted I used logical fallacies to gather people around me. It worked.
>>54023221>mfw you actually reply to the well-reasoned post>mfw your response is still autistic drivel
>>54023317>I post like a retard on purpose>but I'm not retarded I swear
>>54023221Anon... I'm the original "not at my table" Stalin GM here. When I pause the game after a controversial player decision, I always have my group talk it out first, the vote is a last resort for when they can't reach a common understanding after like ten minutes. I thought that was obvious...
>>54023266What the fuck are you talking aboutHe said that vampires and resurrection cannot exist in the same setting. D&D has both vampires and resurrection. Therefore, according to him, D&D should not exist.
>>54023330>implying I posted like a retardLink me one post that could be considered retarded. >>54023319Or you could just delete resurrection, and leave D&D as it is? Don't be radical. Radicalism brings chaos, and chaos brings order. Nothing speaks order more than a dictatorship.>>54023335>merely 10 minutesYou realize we have been talking for hours? Also the biggest issue is the GM not being impartial. The GM should be rational and take no sides.>>54023330He was a nigga and deserved a well thought reply. I gave him my best.
>>54023335> the vote is a last resort for when they can't reach a common understanding after like ten minutesAnd that's still wrong. When you can't reach an understanding, the correct response is to let the player go ahead and do what he wanted to do. Otherwise you are taking away the player's control of their own character, which is one of the worst things that the GM can do. If you can't convince him to see things your way, that's your failing, no one else's.
>>54023380>When you can't reach an understanding, the correct response is to let the player go ahead and do what he wanted to doThat's the stupidest thing you could possibly do in that situation
>>54023377>Or you could just delete resurrection, and leave D&D as it is? Don't be radical>delete resurrection>don't be radicalwew lad
>>54023377>it makes you seem retarded>See point 1. It is intentional.>but show me where I posted like a retard
>>54023337Fucked up your reply hard, fuck me.Or you could just delete resurrection, and leave D&D as it is? Don't be radical. Radicalism brings chaos, and chaos brings order. Nothing speaks order more than a dictatorship>>54023319He was a nigga and deserved a well thought reply. I gave him my best.Jesus I'm really getting sloppy here. I guess I will stop. Good bye my fellow niggas.Remember, do not take player's agency away from them. Don't be Stalin. You are a referee in your setting, not a god that forces your fun on everyone.
>>54023423Why, because it's not what you wanted? Too bad. You don't get to force other people to do what you want just because they're messing up your carefully constructed narrative. The GM doesn't get to force people to do things. This is a game, a group activity, not a book that is being written solely by the GM.
>>54023249>The investigators found that the CIA was “targeting" Abu Ahmed [bin Laden's courier] as early as 2002 - and “prior to any reporting from CIA detainees”.>US intelligence had Abu Ahmed’s phone number by 1 January 2002 and confirmation that the number really belonged to him came in March when it was discovered inside an address book belonging to Abu Zubaydah, an al-Qaeda kingpin who was captured in Pakistan.>The following month, US intelligence learnt that one of bin Laden’s sons, Sa’ad, had called Abu Ahmed’s phone. Later in 2002, Abu Ahmed himself used this number to call a phone linked to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 terrorist attacks.>The CIA also had Abu Ahmed’s email address from July 2002 onwards and “multiple reports” on his “close association” with bin Laden and his “frequent travel to see” the al-Qaeda leader.>All of this information was available before the first mention of Abu Ahmed by detainees in CIA custody in 2003.But no, obviously the CIA is who you should trust when discussing the effectiveness of torture.
>>54023479Source by the way.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11284721/CIA-torture-report-enhanced-interrogation-helped-us-catch-Osama-bin-Laden.html>The most important intelligence came from Hassan Ghul, an al-Qaeda figure who was captured in northern Iraq. In January 2004, he provided vital information that linked Abu Ahmed firmly to bin Laden.>However, the Senate found that Ghul cooperated with his interrogators without being subjected to any form of coercion. “He opened up right away and was cooperative from the outset,” said a CIA officer, adding that Ghul “sang like a tweetie bird”.>During two days of questioning, Ghul yielded enough information for 21 separate intelligence reports. He talked of Abu Ahmed’s work as bin Laden’s courier and speculated – entirely accurately, as it turned out – that the al-Qaeda leader must be in Pakistan.>Despite this cooperation, however, the interrogators were convinced that Ghul was still withholding information. They duly transferred him to a “black site” where he was subjected to 59 hours of sleep deprivation and other torture techniques in order to see whether he would yield anything more.>But the report states that the vital information about Abu Ahmed came before the CIA resorted to “enhanced interrogation”.
>>54023479Then explain why it wasn't until AFTER using torture that they had enough information to act. If the torture wasn't effective and they had all the information already, then why didn't they get bin Laden before using torture? Maybe it's because they didn't really have anything solid until they started using torture?
>>54023221>Shits on dictatorships all thread long>praises dictatorships at the endReally makes you think.
>>54023449Nobody's forcing you to do anything. You're allowed to leave.
>>54023449The GM DOES get to force people to NOT do things though. That's literally part of the job. You can only do what the GM allows, and if they prevent you from doing something that would ruin the game for everyone else at the table then they're completely in the right.
>>54023557>Nobody's forcing you to do anything. You're allowed to leave.
>>54023579Tabletop games don't have sovereign soil you're forced to physically vacate other than the private property where it's being hosted. I'll let you stay at my house while you sit out the rest of the session but you won't be allowed back the next. None of that violates any of your rights.
>>54023576>they are completely in the right to break the immersion by telling you no for no good in-game reason
>>54023636You broke immersion first by being a retard for no good in-game reason.
>>54023579>reaching this hard>>54023636>implying the immersion hasn't already been broken by arguing about anything
>>54023576> The GM DOES get to force people to NOT do things though. That's literally part of the jobNo, a GM does not get to force people to do or not do anything. If you think that' part of the GM's job, then you're an idiot. The GM is supposed to be an impartial facilitator. The players are the ones who get to make decisions for their character, not the GM.
>>54023644Its only retarded in the GM's head
>>54023530None of the actionable intelligence was produced under enhanced interrogation. Reports clearly and repeatedly show that despite the application of enhanced interrogation techniques, intelligence was only produced from detainees who were either already co-operative from the outset or through subtler techniques by interrogators.
>>54023654Holy shit you're stupidLike, you're actually mentally deficient
>>54023667And the heads of every player except you. Which makes a good case for your head being the retarded one.
>>54023654t. entitled player who never GMed in his life
Man, all this discussion because this one dude is butthurt about That Guy being boned.
>>54023693>>54023711>>54023729>>54023730>when you realize /tg/ is filled with That Guy and That DMs nowFucking summer, none of you are right.
>>54023787>getting this mad about That Guys not being allowed to get away with their bullshitleave
>>54023729t. a shitty GM who abuses his position in order to feel good about his empty existence at the expense of his players
>>54023377>You realize we have been talking for hours?Yes? The 10 minutes part is about the conversations I have. With my players. Not with anons on /tg/.No offense, honestly, but you sound like you need some sleep.Also, personally, the only time I take "sides" is to break up ties, because otherwise we're there all day.>>54023377>Anon: Guys I want to rape the NPC.>Player 1: Please don't.>Player 2: That would be fucking stupid>Player 3: Yeah no.>Player 4: Why the hell would you do that?[An hour later]>You: I know your guys still haven't changed your minds but I really want to rape the NPC.>GM: Okay, anon rapes the NPC.>And thus everything was right in Anon's utopia of ultimate freedom.Now excuse me but I am going to exercise my human rights to laugh at you forever.
>>54023843>at the expense of his players>literally making a decision that the vast majority of the players wantedw e w
>>54023787>complains about summerI can tell that you're new because the commonly accepted definition of That Guy on /tg/ is someone who doesn't mesh with the rest of the group and turns it into an issue.
I can't believe That Guy is literally arguing for his right to furry ERP at a normal table, and people are REPLYINGtg has fallen so fucking low.
>>5402387425% of the players wanted to kill the vampire. The GM just ignoring that is an abuse of his position.
>>54023434>You are a referee in your settingAnd a ref should adjudicate what is going on in the game. I assume you know why refs have red and yellow cards in football.
>>54024089>footballlmaoing at your life kid, watch wrestling matches instead
>>54007948Probably not defending someone it was a girl (male), everyone on the group knew about it, one time we got some fun and I ended getting a handjob and then a blowjob from him, it was amazing, but later on the group a discussion about how everyone was feeling nervous because of him appeared and everyone ended kicking him, and I didn't defended him I was just another played like him so, fuck
>>54023874But anon, you don't understand! He's the only player that matters!If he wants to shove a glass rod up the other player's character's urethra then the GM is a big meanie for not letting him do it!Besides he wouldn't mind if someone else did it to his character so everyone should totally feel the same way or they're wrong!
>>54024077First of all, it was 20%. He said the player vote was 4-1. Secondly, telling a problem player 'no' is not an abuse of the GM position, it's literally their job...>>54024124Same concept but with a wrestling referee
>>54023959No one is arguing for furry ERP. People are arguing that someone who wants to play a paladin who actually does his job should be allowed to do that without the GM breaking the rules in order to protect an NPC he likes.
>>54024155Wrestling doesn't have a shitty card system that is used as actual unfair bullying. In Wrestling, things are actually fair.
>>54024135>it was a girl (male)trannies be gone REEEEEEEEE
>>54024077Learn English, please. It's by definition not at the expense of his players because it was only one player.
>>54024077>Follow majority opinion>GM ignores 25% of player base, abuse of power!>Follow minority opinion>GM ignores 75% of player base, abus- never mind, it's okay because it's me.
>>54024168>the GM breaking the rules in order to protect an NPC he likesThere are at least 2 things wrong with this statement alone>>54024170Wrestling is "fair" because it's scripted
>>54024172Dude was gay, not a trans
>>54024135You deserved to lose her(him).
>>54024173>he doesn't belong to the group when he disagrees with it
>>54024173>>54024177Wrong. The issue was whether a player can play his character the way he wants to. Allowing that doesn't hurt any of the other players, but the GM censoring him does hurt one of the players. Just because he's only one of the players doesn't change the fact that he's one of the players and so he absolutely does matter.
>>54024191>girl (male)>girl>dude was gay>girl>girl (male)>not a trans>girl
>>54024198>>54024205Again, learn English. It's by definition not at the expense of his players, plural, because it was only one player, singular.
>>54024188>football isn't scriptedlmaoing at your life m8, its all planned
>>54024198>he doesn't understand what plural means
>>54024219>he isn't part of the equation when he disagrees with me, the GM!
>>54024168>I want to do a thing.>Literally everyone else: Don't.>I'm being oppressed REEEEIt's the absolute same thing. You're arguing that the comfort and enjoyment of 4+ players at the table doesn't matter because one guy really wants to do something.
>>54024205That Guy actually does not matter, their feelings are secondary and to be ignored
>>54024242One player is not the same thing as multiple players, even if you weigh as much as the rest of the table combined.
>>54024177A player's control of their character is not up for a vote. Each player controls their own character. If a player wants his character to do his job as a paladin, that's not something the GM or the other players get to block because it is HIS CHARACTER.
>>54024255>even if you weigh as much as the rest of the table combined.Don't try to get into the shares market, you will suck at it.
>>54024250> player actually tries to roleplay a good paladin> REEEEEE You're THAT GUY!
>>54024263Your character can fuck off when it ruins the game for everyone else at the tableI'm sick of this "muh player agency" bullshit when you know that people trying to fuck up games should be denied from doing so
>>54024295>Your character can fuck offThat GM literally confirmed
>>54024287>good>murdering an innocent civilian that had done no wrong
>>54024295> shitting on the idea of player agency/tg/ really has fallen far. I thought /co/mblr was bad, but this is even worse.
>>54024309Ok, so if my character decides to rape the rest of the party in graphic detail before running off to drown kittens then the GM should just sit by and let them ruin the game?
>>54024321Player agency is good, but not as an excuse to be That GuyCome one dude, rub two of your three brain cells together and actually think about something for once
>>54024310> innocent civilian that had done no wrongWrong. He killed a vampire.
I can't believe "I backstab the party cleric because my rogue is LE EVIL RANDOM KILLER OF DOOM XD" is player agency now
>>54024344You mean an innocent civilian afflicted with vampirism which was confirmed to be easily cured in that setting? Yeah, totally a good guy thing to murder them on the spot
>>54024310> murdering an innocent civilian that had done no wrongThat's not what happened. The paladin saw evil, and so he destroyed it.
>>54024325Strawman, the argument is the player didn't do anything magical realm, neither did he do anything any other paladin would not do. Fuck, most players would kill a vampire on sight.I used to get angry at those left leaning and diversity quotas influencing our hobby, but you know. Maybe we actually need some leftism here, it looks like the hobby runs by faggots.
>>54024370>>54024375A truly good paladin would attempt to cure the person of their vampirism, which the GM confirmed was easily done in their setting. Are you two really this dense? Killing things that have merely the potential to be evil when you can easily fix it without killing is just being a murder hobo, not a good guy
>>54024365> an innocent civilian afflicted with vampirism> Don't call her a vampire! She's a vampirism-afflicted person! Check you privilege shitlord!> which was confirmed to be easily cured in that settingWhich is wrong. There isn't an easy cure for vampirism. And even if there was, that doesn't change that VAMPIRES. ARE. EVIL.
>>54024410>Which is wrong. There isn't an easy cure for vampirism.There is in that setting you fucking retardThe GM confirmed it IN THIS FUCKING THREAD
>>54024365Here, I will make it very easy for you to understand.On the left, you don't kill. On the right, you kill on sight. Know the difference while adventuring, it can save your life.
>>54024418>Expecting a mentally deficient That Guy to use basic logic and reading comprehensionWatch him make a complete pirouette over that exact argument.
>>54024442Did you even read the context of the story that's being discussed? Don't be an idiot anon
>>54024403>A truly good paladin would attempt to cureNo, that's a priest's job. A truly good paladin SMITES EVIL
>>54024403> which the GM pulled out of his ass in total violation to everything in the rules about vampiresFTFY> Killing things that have merely the potential to be evilNot what we're talking about here. This isn't something that "could potentially be evil." Vampires ARE evil. Even if there was an easy cure, that doesn't change the fact that it is an evil creature that will do evil while you are trying to "cure" it. Allowing it to live means allowing it to do evil.
>>54024418Yeah, the GM broke the rules. We already knew that. Try to keep up.
>>54024468Jesus Christ you're an autistic retard>HURR DURR I DON'T THINK THIS CAN HAPPEN SO IT CAN'T HAPPEN IN LITERALLY ANY SETTING DURRRRRRR>>54024463You called it
>>54024418Did you miss the part where the party killed a bunch of vampires before reaching her? You are arguing like a fucking retard. Vampires in that setting are EVIL.If the party gave a shit about curing vampires, maybe they shouldn't have murdered literally everyone before reaching the vampiress
>>54024482>the GM broke the ruleskill yourself, everyone can tell how much of That Guy you are
>>54024499Yeah, we can tell you are That GM. The GM in that scenario was a fucking retard, and so are you for agreeing with him.
>>54024496Then they came across a person who had just become a vampire who expressed their desire to not do evil and was not a threat>reading comprehension
>>54024483No one is talking about "any setting." We're talking about DnD, which is obvious because it was a PALADIN using LAY ON HANDS. In DnD, there is no easy cure for vampirism and vampires are, by definition, evil.
>>54024515>wants to make the game enjoyable for 4 of the 5 players who aren't That Guy>That GMyou don't need to prove how stupid you are anymore anon
>>54024525D&D is a system, not a setting.
>>54024516> Well if an evil creature SAYS that it doesn't want to do evil, then clearly we should let it go!You would make an unbelievably shitty paladin.
>>54024525>literally every game of D&D has to be strictly RAWwew
>>54024516>Then they came across a person who had just become a vampireNo, they came across a recently born vampire.Undead aren't people, stop having feelings for them.You know who else expressed his desire to not do evil and was not a threat? Anakin, Hitler, Arthas, the guy from Saw movies, Boromir, Frodo, and a bunch of other evil characters.Don't be retarded, trusting the word of a monster isn't reasonable
>>54024543DnD is a system with rules. Rules that define what a vampire is. Rules that say vampires are evil creatures that cannot easily be cured.
>>54024539>want to fuck a guy over because he is a paladin and you hate god and you are an atheistFixed the situation for you, by the way. Don't deny it, you hate people who do their job right because you are lazy, dumb, and stupid.
>>54024575Show me the specific rule that says vampires cannot easily be cured
>>54024575Those aren't rules.
>posted two hours ago>thread halfway to bump limit>278 replies later>Philosophical screeching, massive fedora tipping and /pol/shitThis is why no one likes /tg/
>>54024598>trying this hardI believe that you will be able to accept that you are wrong, with time. Maybe even before you ruin even more games by sperging out over the GM not allowing you to be a shithead.
>>54024617Open up the monster manual and flip to "Vampire." It specifically says that it takes a Wish spell to restore them. That's a high level spell, it is not an easy cure.
>>54024464>>54024468>>54024483>>54024499>>54024516>>54024539Just give it to us straight. What exactly do you want the Paladin to do if he can't smite evil when he sees it?Why in OP's retarded setting Paladins exist if they can't fucking kill evil creatures?Why in OP's retarded setting you can RESURRECT THE UNDEAD?Why in OP's retarded setting is a recently born vampire capable of controlling his inner beast instead of being a berserker with a thirst for blood? You do realize to become the gentleman vampire they need a lot of self control right? You do realize vampires are always fighting "the beast"? Why would a child vampire be able to control herself right away instead of having an innate desire to drink blood of anything nearby?Why in OP's retarded setting did the party not try to cure other vampires, do those other vampires not deserve saving? Who is the judge here that determines that?Why in OP's retarded setting is it fucking okay to fuck people over because you and your gang of thugs decided it was okay to do so? Fucking assholes.I give you 10 minutes to answer these questions.
>>54024643>he thinks this is important enough for me to rememberI will forget about all of this in 10 seconds after the thread dies
...can we all just relax?
>>54024641What exactly are you talking about? Did you even read this thread?
>>54024655That rule is specifically for PCs that have been turned into vampires
>>54024655The monster manual is a resource, not a rulebook.
>>54024715post the rule while you are there, prove you read it
>>54024656Holy fuck you're stupidDid you even read the fucking story? Because if you did then you'd have your answers you inbred fuck
>>54024722> Monster Manual> says CORE RULEBOOK on literally the first page> not a rulebook
>>54024727Not an argument, 5 minutes left.
>>54024723https://i.imgur.com/Ys5kGEU.pngRight fucking here in the box that says "Player Characters as Vampires"Will you admit that you're wrong now?
>>54024722The GM is also a resource, not a rulebook. He isn't god, he doesn't command. He is an arbiter.
>>54024741I'm not going to argue with your autistic screeching
>>54024740That's correct. "CORE RULEBOOK" is a holdover from back when it was relevant, much like "IN GOD WE TRUST". It is useful but ultimately optional.
>>54024760All you gotta do is be honest and answer the questions. You can't though, you literally, metaphorically, figuratively, can't answer all the questions.Because you know you are retarded.
>>54024757The GM creates the setting. He is, in fact, the rulebook.
>>54024743This literally doesn't say anything my man. I can't even tell if this is pathfinder or whatever. Just keep looking
>>54024770>projecting this hard
>>54024768> Sure it saaaaays CORE RULEBOOK, but it's really not a rulebook!Holy shit do you even read what you're saying?
>>54024792Look around you, no one can answer those questions. You are literally this dumb, you have been defending all this time pure, putrid, stupidity.How does that feel?
>>54024798Acting incredulous doesn't actually prove a point.
>>54024789Literally what the fuck are you talking aboutThis is a screenshot straight from the D&D 5th ed. Monster Manual. I didn't think you could actually be this stupid, but you keep lowering the bar and it's becoming impressive.
>>54024773>>54024783>when you think someone can't be more retarded than they already are>and they prove you wrongThis thread is fantastic
>>54024805It feels pretty good to know that you get kicked out of games for being That Guy and come to /tg/ to shitpost and justifying being a shithead
>>54024819>5 editionHow about you search for an edition that actually has rules instead of leaving everything in the open?modern gaming was a mistake
>>54024826>makes an objectively false statement>gets called out>HURR DURR YOU CALLED ME RETARDED SO THAT MEANS I AM RIGHT
>>54024832So you actually enjoy bragging on the internet about being That GM. Probably because you lack any players to play with.
>>54024849>objectivelyThere is that word you have used again, it doesn't mean what you think it means.Opinions aren't objective, only facts are.
>>54024850You keep saying it, but it's kind of silly how you keep trying to define That GM as "being responsible and allowing your good players to enjoy the game"
>>54024826>female: big breasts glasses teacher milf school swimsuit ahegao double penetration bukkake analTaste couldn't possibly be more pedestrian.
>>54024656> What exactly do you want the Paladin to do if he can't smite evil when he sees it?Do good. Protect the innocent. If you have a new vampire that hasn't done anything wrong, wants to be cured, and you have an easy way to cure the vampire, then the paladin's job is to cure that vampire. It's the same as curing a person who hasn't done anything wrong of a disease if that was within his power. Leaving innocent people to suffer when you can easily prevent it is not what a paladin is supposed to do.
>>54024868>The GM is also a resource, not a rulebook. He isn't god, he doesn't command. He is an arbiter.This is not an opinion. This is a false statement.
>>54024874Sorry, time is up.Paladins by the way, are warriors of light, you want a priest. The priests and clerics protect the weak. Paladins go crusading to smite the root of evil.
>>54024883Meant to reply to >>54024864
>>54024874> the paladin's job is to cureWrong. That is the job of a priest. The paladin's job is to destroy evil. If he sees evil before him, his duty is to destroy it.
>>54024826>sperm level = 9999999998Daaaamn
>>54024889>>54024899>being this autistic
>>54024874His idea of a paladin is pretty much the creep that joins the police force because he wanted to kill people while wearing a badge.
>>54024913>I was wrong and retarded? NO WAY>ITS THE ENEMY THAT IS AUTISTICAnon, please. What would your mom say if she saw you argue like this?
>>54024889Crusading and smiting by definition destroys symptoms rather than roots.
>>54024916>this fucking postHoly shit
>>54024874> then the paladin's job is to cure that vampireRehabilitation is not the job of a paladin. Healing is not the job of a paladin. Curing disease is not the job of a paladin. Paladins aren't there to brew potions or change bandages. Paladins are there to kill evil creatures.
>>54024973>Curing disease is not the job of a paladin>Lay On Hands can cure disease
>>54024874Learn the difference.
>>54024938No it doesn't. If you go to where evil dwells and destroy it, then it removes the source of the problem. Healers, clerics, priests, etc. who go around trying to sooth the pain of those harmed by evil is fighting the symptoms. Paladins go on crusade to destroy the source of that evil.
>>54024987To heal other paladins and warriors assisting him on the battle against Evil. The paladin doesn't go to church and stay there healing people, that's not what he was trained to do, its not his office. His office is outside, searching and fighting Evil.
>>54025016>all paladins have to be played exactly how I say they have to be played
>>54024938Evil comes from Area X from unknown sources.You live in Area Y. You crusade to Area X, and smite the source.Don't be retarded, even a middle schooler could understand this basic concept.
>>54024656He used lay on hands, not smite
>>54025036Look dude, if you want to make elves cave dwelling miners, that's fine. But they aren't elves.So fuck off m8, job offices exist for a reason. You can call the car engineer a doctor, but that only makes you retarded. Each job has its selected work to do.
>>54025040Sorry but no. Sources of evil are pretty much never something that can be smote except for the rare sociopath doing bad shit on purpose.
>>54025065>pretty much never>you can't smite a lich>you can't smite a demon>you can't smite a ghostDude, just kill yourself. What the fuck are you even posting?Evil can always be destroyed otherwise campaigning in RPGs wouldn't fucking exist, jesuschrist man.
>>54025057>being this strict about what an entire fucking class can and can not doYou'd better not ever play a Warlock that isn't evil anon! Because all Warlocks have to be evil in every setting because I say so!
>>54025065> Sources of evil are pretty much never something that can be smote except for the rare sociopath doing bad shit on purpose.This is what post-modernists actually believe.
>>54025088Those aren't sources, they're symptoms.
>>54025097A human turned lich isn't a symptom retard, its a source. He is creating the nearby undead.
>>54025097If an evil creature does evil, then it is a source of evil and destroying it destroys that source of evil. Caring for the people injured by the evil creature is treating the symptoms, and that is a job for other people, not paladins.
>>54025106Symptoms exacerbate suffering but alleviating them doesn't destroy the disease.
>>54025130Destroying the lich destroys the undead disease
>>54025090>playing a system that has warlocks to begin withAnd Warlocks have only ONCE being troped as evil.
>>54025000>cleric>of the clergy>religious leaders>etymologically related to "clerk">warrior-healerWhat the fuck?
>>54025136Both liches and common undead are symptoms of evil, not sources.
>>54025158Do you even know what a medieval cleric is like? They were warriors that brought the glory of god into the battlefield, they tended the wounded in the field. While the priests stayed in cities and monasteries.
>>54025158>he doesn't know what a cleric is>>54025173Ok are you just stupid? How is a lich not a source of evil?
>>54024973Hypothetical:A paladin encounters a new vampire that has done nothing wrong and wants to be cured. The paladin has a potion that, if the vampire drinks it, will cure the vampire. Or he could smite the vampire, destroying it. What should he do?
>>54025173Wrong. A zombie is a symptom, the lich is the source.
>>54022000>absolute authorityIt's not absolute if there is a conceivable chance of another situation where YOU have the authority. Like another person getting vetoed by you and the group
>>54025195>being this late to the """discussion"""
>>54025185>A paladin encounters a new vampireHe smites it right away, before giving it a second thought.>that has done nothing wrong and wants to be curedThe vampire would never get a chance to speak. If he dare to speak. To the Paladin's hear it would be the Devil's words. The Paladin would then recite his training about how he would not be tempted or fooled by the evil forces. Then, proceed to smite the beast into ashes.>The paladin has a potion that, if the vampire drinks it, will cure the vampireWhat kind of fucking shit awful setting is this?
>>54025177>>54025182That is not accurate at all. Clerics were and are of the clergy; it's in the name. The shit you're talking about was pretty much invented by fantasy RPGs.
>>54025185That is a retarded question.> a potion that, if the vampire drinks it, will cure the vampireDoes not exist. You may as well be asking if 2 + 2 = 5. Your attempts at deflection are obvious and laughable. You can't get around the fact that paladins exist to destroy evil, so instead you make up retarded "hypotheticals" to try to distract from the fact that your position is completely indefensible.
>>54025220I don't know anon, what kind of fucking shit awful setting has the Devil as an actual thing that exists?
>>54025182>>54025190Liches literally require acts of evil to form. They're products of evil, not sources.
>>54025249>getting this angry over a hypotheticalWhy don't you just answer the question, anon? Or would that damage your "argument" too much?
>>54025235Bishop Odo wielding a Mace while fighting turks or something.Also the Second Lateran Council of 1139 tried to impose a ban of clerics participating in wars, or maybe this one was about banning the use of the crossbow for members of the clergy.Again stop being a stupid fuck.
>>54025270...acts of evil committed by the lichBesides, the action of creating undead BY DEFINITION makes the creator a source of evil. They are the source of that undead, which is evil.How about you give an example of an actual source of evil if your definition is so absurdly strict?
>>54025273> LOLUMADYou may as well just admit that you have nothing of value to say. It's become clear to everyone here.
>>54025252>being this much of a biblical ignoramusThe Devil, much like everything in the Bible. Are fucking methaphors.It could be Khorne, your personal BBEG, or whatever the fuck you want. It is meant to portray Evil itself.
>>54025302Resource scarcity is a big one. Lack of education is another. Come on; use your brains.
>>54025307I'm not even the one you were arguing with anon, I just couldn't help but point out how stupid you are
>>54025318Holy shit you're actually retardedI thought you may have just been pretending
>>54025270>Liches literally require acts of evil to formCommited by the lich itself.>>54025318What the fuck are you talking about? Is this fucking bait
>>54025294A minority of the clergy participating in warfare does not mean a cleric, spoken of generally, is a warrior, and the vast majority were not.
>>54025323Not the guy you replied to, but really you should just stop posting, he won. Your hypothetical scenario was retarded from the start.
>>54022688>I am going to torture this person to find evil!You won't have to look far.
>>54025372>explicitly said I wasn't the one he was arguing with>YOUR hypothetical scenarioOk now I understand why this thread is shit, it's because people can't fucking read
>>54025342>>54025349Out of arguments, I see.
>>54025317> It could be KhorneKhorne isn't even a personification of evil in 40k. He's a collection of emotions that are strongly felt by the people in the 40k setting. Anger is a big part of him, but so is courage, honor, and selflessness. He contains within him the very things needed to fight against evil, in addition to a bunch of things that can lead someone to commit evil.
>>54025357Wrong, all clerics were trained to be capable warriors. It was their choice to participate or not in battle.The fact a single clerk was participating in war already proves your whole dumb opinion out of validity, anyway. So I don't need to prove anything to you. You need to read some more. The fervor for God was immense.
>>54025317Evil existing objectively, much less being inherent rather than determined by actions, is a pretty big indicator of a shit setting.
>>54025401There's nothing to argue with. You don't argue with nonsense just because the other person decided to bring it up
>>54025403He is one of the chaos gods, jesuschrist man do you have a single digit IQ? It could be Slaneesh or Nurgle. It doesn't fucking matter.
>>54025418A group of people performing evil actions become evil objectified. >he has no idea how the concept of evil was bornback to school
Pol is this bad here... ;_;
>>54025408This is a patent untruth. Clergy were not trained in use of arms as a matter of course and I don't know where you got the idea that they were.
>>54025400Bye faggot, we won't miss another retard here.
>>54025418>WAAAH this setting doesn't define evil by my very strict and absurd standards so it must be SHIT WAAAAAAAH
>>54025444The chaos gods all have a similar thing going. All four are collections of emotions, containing both positive and negative aspects.Slaanesh is desire and excess, but it is also joy, beauty, and artistry.Nurgle is fear and mortality, but it is also love, comfort, security, and renewal.
>>54025457Actions being objectively evil is a pretty good sign of a shit setting.
>>54025502Raping is always evil
>>54025492>>54025515>my shit doesn't stinkIt does.>>54025518You can do better than that.
>>54025500Yes, and siding with any of them are all heresy. Which is what paladins hunt down.good job, also don't pretend for a single second you will outknowledge me in Warhammer lore. It is my absolute favorite setting.
>>54025527No anon, you can do better than that shitpost you just made.Raping is always evil.
>>54025527>YOUR SETTING IS SHIT>no it just uses a more common and believable standard for evil>NUH UH IT'S SHIT BECAUSE I SAID SO
>>54025479>Medieval annals are full of wars and battles where militant clergymen figured prominently. The vast majority of the clergymen mentioned in these military affairs naturally came from the higher ranks of the clerical hierarchy--bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and popes. These men generally came from the nobility or at least from the gentry, and nowhere does this show more obviously than in the way that they fought like other nobles and knights of comparable social status. After all, they would have had largely the same military training as other men-at-arms; why would their preferences in armament be any different? A good example is available in a 13th-century illustration to Einhard's famous 9th-century biography of Charlemagne. The upper panel depicts a man wearing a helmet crest in the conspicuous shape of a bishop's mitre--almost certainly indicating that he's a bishop, and perhaps even Turpin--while wielding a lance.Just stop.
>>54025553That's an untruth.>>54025554If "the Devil" is common and believable to you then you might as well kill yourself right now.
>>54023317Using logical fallacies IS retarded. Even to bait people. Especially to bait people
>>54025578>That's an untruth.Come on, you can do better than that.Raping is always evil, there is no situation where it isn't evil.
>>54025578It's a fantasy settingThe Devil is an incredibly common and believable fantasy tropeAre you just retarded?
>>54025574>clergy that were of the nobility, who were trained in use of arms, were trained in use of armsShocker. I dug up the source, by the way; it's an article on why militant clergy didn't restrict themselves to blunt weapons, not any sort of commentary on clergy as a whole. Still doesn't apply to the vast majority of clergy.
>>54025610>Still doesn't apply to the vast majority of clergy.>Medieval annals are full of wars and battles where militant clergymen figured prominentlyAnd the source of that is right in there, if you actually read the whole post, you would know where every information came from.
>>54025636There being a high proportion of records of wars and battles which featured militant clergy does not speak to the proportion of clergy which were militant and is in fact handily explained by the overlap of the clergy with the nobility. I don't think you'd do very well in a statistics course.
>>54025657Neither would you, considering you have provided nothing but "nuh huhs"You are wrong, plain and simple, if proof doesn't convince you nothing will. You are too retarded to understand. Like, you think there is no relation between the clergy and the military, which is absolutely insane. You think there is no relation between nobles and the clergy, another insane claim you just made.So yeah, I will ignore your shit-tier baits from now on.
>>54025657He hasn't done well with anything so far, why stop now?
>>54025597I can make arbitrary statements without any justification too. "Rape is never evil.">>54025601Not that common and basically completely unbelievably.
>>54025679>Like, you think there is no relation between the clergy and the military, which is absolutely insane. You think there is no relation between nobles and the clergy, another insane claim you just made.You basically don't know how to read. You're functionally illiterate.
>>54025683How can raping never be evil when you force your will on someone else, and you cause pain on others for no reason beyond your own emotions?Again, you can't make arbitrary statements, because if you did that, you would come up like a fucking retard.
>>54025683Give a single instance in which rape would not be evil. Just one.Also, how the fuck is the Devil, in one form or another, NOT common in fantasy? And by believable I mean in a fantasy setting. Are you just being contrarian for the sake of it or do you have any kind of reason you think this?
>>54025700Funny, I guess we will agree to consider each other illiterates. You definitely are one.
>>54025704>when you force your will on someone else, and you cause pain on others for no reason beyond your own emotions?You've described the act of rape but not why it's evil.
>>54025712It's uncommon in fantasy settings that aren't shit, is my point.
>>54025741>its not evil to cause pain on others and force your will on themOkay. Guess I will go out and rape people then.
>>54025753But that's just outright false...Also where is your example of non-evil rape? I'm still waiting for that.
>>54025758You'll face no objection from me.
>>54025753>tolkien is shitJust die
>>54024496No, vampires that have victims turned into vampires against their will are evil. The victims aren't evil
>>54025766I didn't expect to face objection from a blatant moron.
>>54025765Show me the scientific equipment you used to record an act of rape and quantify it as evil. Show me under a microscope the particles of evil found on the swabs of a rape kit.>>54025773>if you don't like what I like you should dieDo better.
>>540257741) Vampires are always evil2) Those vampires that turned her into a vampire? They were also victims of other older vampires that turned them into vampires3) There is no such thing as victims in the vampire social hierarchy
>>54024571You know who else said they weren''t going to do evil? Pretty much every fucking person in the world.
>>54025810good people don't feel the need to claim they would never do evil
>>54025793>actually being this stupidWhat is your definition of evil?I'm still waiting on your example of non-evil rape. Come on man, you can do it, I believe in you!
>>54025805>beginning your line of reasoning with an a priori declaration of the thing you are trying to showYou are That Guy.
>>54025793>>54025793You are the same guy that said evil comes from hunger and poverty, right? Like, this is some low quality bait.
>>54025826My point is that every rape is non-evil until you show me that they are.
>>54025827>being this autistic
>>54025837Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
>>54025840Ok yeah you really are that stupidRape is inherently evil and you don't seem to have any idea how to handle that. Are you a rapist? Are you in denial?
>>54025854kek, you really are him.
>>54025851So you don't have an argument.>>54025861So you don't have an argument.
>>54025868...Where the fuck is YOURS, you fucking rapist?
>>54025882The burden of proof lies on you to show that all rape is evil. You made that assertion.I have not committed any rapes in the past decade.
>>54025868Every single argument here has involved you, hasn't it? Well, it makes me happy that I wasn't alone in this, and a lot of other posters 'debated' you before I came. At night before you fall asleep, just remember you are a lonely little man with no support. While the rest of the people here actually banded together against a huge shitposter.
>>54025898Alright, I'm done with this shit. You're so bad at philosophy it hurts. All you have to do is provide one example of rape that isn't evil. You haven't even bothered trying to explain what you think evil is. The only thing you've accomplished is show that you're very likely a rapist in denial.
>>54025910It's fine if believing that everyone who disagrees with you on the internet is just one single person but rejection of reality isn't healthy.
>>54025924Like I said, every rape is an example of rape that isn't evil until you show that they are.
>>54025925You literally made a single post to reply to two different conversations at once, I don't need any more proof.
>>54025936Literally a rapist
>>54025302No, acts of evil comitted by someone who wants to be a lich. Am I a king because I wear my paper crown? Actions define a person, not intentions
>>54025937One of them was from 2 hours ago and was revived by a different poster. I replied to it since I saw a butchery of an argument and didn't want to let it go unchecked, but I wasn't involved in it initially.>>54025953Untrue and not an argument.
>This threadNever change summertime...
>>54025968What the fuck are you even trying to sayDid you really just argue that a lich is a separate entity from the person they originally were?>Actions define a person, not intentionsOk, so we agree that the ACTION of creating undead makes the person taking the action evil, right? And therefore they are a source of evil? I mean you pretty much just argued in my favor but I'm not quite sure if you even realized that
>>54025970>Untrue and not an argument.You've just described literally every post you have made in this thread
>>54026013Speak for yourself; I'm a NEET.
>>54025574>military clergyIf clerics are inherently military, then why even specify? Oh because most clerics weren't military. Right.
>>54026013>unironically believing anything on the internet changes during the summer
>>54026031>no uReal cogent there, buddy.
Here comes the peanut gallery from >>54025794. Hi, r*ddit!
>>54026047>believing that rape isn't evil without giving any arguments, definitions, or examples Right back at ya
>>54026069I'm not the one who forwarded the idea that rape isn't evil. I'm just laying the burden of proof rightfully on you, who forwarded the idea that rape is evil.
>>54026065What the fuck is that thread?DELETE
>>54025823So many prayers do exactly that.
>>54023163If I have information I'll give it to not have my scrotum devoured by rats to be honest
>>54026084Fine, I'll bite then. Rape is always evil because:- Evil is any action that is immoral and/or malevolent- It ALWAYS takes away agency from the victim, which is immoral- It ALWAYS causes more harm than good, as the emotional (and often physical) harm to the victim is significantly more severe and longer-lasting than the pleasure gained by the attacker, which is immoral and malevolent- It NEVER serves a good (or neutral) purpose in and of itself, which is malevolent- It NEVER serves as a step towards a "greater good", which is immoral- Since the act of rape is immoral and malevolent and rape never serves as a means to a moral or benevolent end, it is always evilAre you fucking happy now that I've fed the troll?
>>54026015Yes.You say a lich is created by commiting evil acts. What are you BEFORE commiting these evil acts? Not a lich.
>>54026260...you are the person that becomes the lich. They are the same entity, just with different properties. Do the evil acts committed by the before-lich suddenly not matter after they become a lich?
>>54026015I was not debating wether or not a lich is a source of evil. It is. But killing the source of evil is in itself a minor source of evil. Blood begets blood.
>>54026332"Destroying a source of evil is an evil act"Ok now I've heard everything. You're so unbelievably stupid that I don't even know how to respond to that. You could mash your face on your keyboard and you would end up with a more coherent point than what you just posted.