Redpill me on Song of Swords. I want to make my own fechts but I'm still hesitating between SoS and TRoS. Is SoS this much better than TRoS ? The combat section is the only one I'm interesting in.
>>68085623I've never played Riddle but I do quite enjoy SoS' combat
>>68085623SoS is better. Group combat sort of functions.
>>68085623It’s got some advantages and some downsides.The game puts a lot of emphasis on fighting around your weapon and the enemy’s armor. In the older versions and in TROS you were basically just pouring on raw damage to bisect knights.In new SOS you really cannot do that anymore unless you’re using a really powerful weapon like a halberd and have Xbox-huge strength.So now it mostly revolves around joint tests against armoured enemies, or attacking vulnerable points in unarmored ones.Combat is generally good but in places it’s janky. There are manoeuvres which you will probably never use. There also also weapons that are just objectively super insanely good (half-pike, pollax, looking at you) and I’m dubious about racial balance.TROS has a better experience system, though. The Spiritual Attributes are bomb as fuck.
>>68088753>I’m dubious about racial balanceI'm not really sure it's supposed to be balanced given their point costs and many of them being restricted or unavailable because of campaign power level
It looks cool from what I've seen. Anyone got a pdf? I want to read more
>>68085623It looks cool from what I've seen. Anyone got a pdf? I want to read more
>>68089161There’s one on the pdf threads, most of them are watermarked so nobody wants to share them.
>>68085623Tons of options, good combat, requires borderline autist mathfag crunchlover party.
>>68089153I want to say the beta is just free on the website.
So far it seems like max ADR + SCHOOL at character creation is the only way to go; a character with higher CP has an undeniably big advantage over characters without them. Especially since manouververs that might mitigate the advantage a character with higher CP require you to pay CP anyway. In a fight against someone with higher CP, you pretty much have to hope that in Red/Red you manage to cause enough Stun/Pain to completely negate their attack, which is unlikely, because they have higher CP.
>>68092322Higher CP isn't an automatic win because at the end of the day, you're still dealing with a game that uses dice to determine outcome. If your campaigns will only ever focus in dueling, then you might even be correct, but the purpose of the game is to actually play, well, games. GMs won't have sessions and campaigns where only your character's strong suits will be put to trial, and I have known from experience that higher CP won't save me when the opponent has good techniques that can counter my own. In the end, yeah, you're boosting your chances at not fucking up in combat, and in a sterile 1v1 fecht you'll have the probability to do well, but not certainty.Just as a quick example, I once had about 7 different 14 PCP characters duel each other in a sort of tournament, with the final being the character with the lowest CP going up against the character with the highest CP. Neither of them were plate armor turtles, and the character with the lowest CP (9 iirc) won out of sheer luck and being good at fleeing.
>>68092322Equipment also matters. You can defeat people with higher CP if you have an advantageous kit build over them, but generally yeah, being more skilled is the most important advantage.
>>68093084All the white harness in the world won't save you from a 20CP master fencer, of course. What do we say to the god of death?>"18 die thrust to the groin"
>>68092584How did those combats go? Particularly the last. How does fleeing work while in a bout? Was that fencer's movement high enough to effectively stay out of reach and only engage at will?Also, for those who have actually run or played sessions, what's a good amount of CP a starting "generalist" (i.e. PCP focused in skills and schools, assuming 1 PCP to take Human) character at each powerlevel? How much ADR should minor foes have?
>>68092322There are several ways to deal with this issue on mechanical level. The biggest mitigator would be a progressive scale of success (1 or 2 successes are 1st degree of success, 3,4 and 5 successes are 2nd degree and increase damage by 2, etc) instead of linear. Other way is to give characters access to abilities which affect chance of success without increasing own dice pool.
>>68093868It depends on the power level honestly. The game lists out various power levels for different types of campaigns, from mud scraping degenerate peasants stabbing their siblings over food, to Big Damn Heroes saving the world.The average level I've started play at is probably around 22 (which is supposedly the power level for realistic but still slightly heroic historical campaigns) where your non focused PC would have 4 to 6 ADR and 3 to 6 school ranks (depending on the school).
>>68093868Fortunately I have the story saved. The fleeing character had 6 mobility, less than their opponent, but it worked out.>Rafel vs. Rust>Rafel is a tomboy commoner wearing armor in 12th century style, i.e. full mail save for helmet, plus fancy longsword from her dad (she's a bastard child)>Rust is a garbage can one-armed Burdinadin from Dace that can't even read, but can survive the perils of the outside world with just a respirator. Has a two handed morningstar>They have 14 and 7 CP, respectively. >Rust tries to go straight for the shins, Rafel masterfully parries it>Begins a succession of thrusts to more vulnerable regions of Rust's armor, which go through despite Rust's Burdinadin reflexes>Not good enough to actually strike blood, save for a good joint thrust to the respirator>Rust decides to Flee halfway during the combat, and works>This puts some distance between them>Rust charges, increasing CP to 11>Rafel goes for a decent riposte, but it's not enough to contain Burdinadin rage>Morningstar crushes the organs in Rafel's side. Most men would have collapsed from the pain, but Rafel is no man.>Rust takes advantage of initiative by going for the lower leg, which strikes foot despite Rafel's parry>Not enough to incapacitate Rafel yet, however the bleeding caused by the morningstar has built up>Rafel tests against Blood Loss>Fails miserably>Drops to 0 HLT, passes out
>>68092322>Red/RedThat doesn't work if your counterpart doesn't cooperate and even then it's probably a bad call. Lower CP individuals need to exploit range, equipment, mistakes or surprise to win a white-room duel the whiteroom part is very important. You can force them onto the defence and if you take their weapon offline or even worse trip them then it don't matter who they are because they're now in a world of shit. Basically BEAT THE BLADE, HOOK THE LEG!
One of the reviews described the game as “gutted,” like they’re selling parts of the game as dlc, is that true? Because big turnoff if true.
>>68097313Maybe he means magic, but the core rulebook has everything you need for the actual game. I think they said it was uncomfortably large so they didn’t want to roll anything else into it.
>>68097313The magic system isn't finished. But let's be real - people played Riddle for the HEMAutism, not the magic system. I haven't even noticed its lack.
>>68097609That's funny, TRoS had more pages dedicated to magic and spells than combat.
slay the zell
>>68097684Like any heartbreaker, RoS had more pages dedicated to other parts of its crunch and fluff than what it's actually known for. Just like FATAL, which only has two pages that are actually dedicated to rape.
Has anyone homebrewed generic fantasy races for this?
>>68097684It just goes to show the different mindsets the developers had. SoS is actually kind of lore-bare if you just read the book.
waaaay too complicated
>>68085623Probably the only fun way to run gritty high lethality games.
try Mythras instead.
>>68098121unfortunately, I am not a homosexual
>>68098121I like mystery cults as much as the next guy but I don’t know how good their sword autism is.
>>68098288it's good. in mythras every hit location has its own HP pool which depends on your Constitution and Size stats and it's possible to lose limbs during combat. amount of actions per turn depends on your combined Dexterity and Intelligence stats. weapon sizes also affect dmg reduction from parrying for example a dagger won't be able to stop a warhammer.ideal for high lethality low fantasy games and IMO it's easier to learn than SoS.only advantage SoS has is more character customization, for example you can start off as a blind or one eyed character
>>68098606also i forgot to mention mythras has a huge bestiary and rules for mass combat.
>>68098288From what I've read of the combat system it's basically a standard d100 system with combat jury rigged to be more complex, active parries and shield coverage and all that. So about 20% of TRoS and 40% of SoS in terms of sword autism (with SoS's autism being diluted by the willingness of its devs to be meme loving fucks.)There's also the vague implication that it's a precursor of Christianity but that's pretty new age.
>>68098288Sword autism a little less, memery far less than SOS
>>68098288Sword autism is nonexistent from what I remember. Hit locations are resolved by d20 roll and can result in a leg or head on the same attack.You can fight headless Blemmies tho.
>>68099328it's not that simplethere are degrees of success which you can use to buy 'special effects'if your attack roll succeeds normally and the opponent fails to parry you gain 1 effect. the most useful effect and the one you'll be using 99% of the time is Choose hit location.if you choose to buy something else then yes it will be resolved with d20 roll
someone needs to run a fecht
>>68099977https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/67688063Maybe one inspired by this thread.
>>68100267You can actually kick the living shit out of armoured people with great swords in SoS thanks to the demonic panacea to armor that is VL reach, half sword and joint thrust.
>>68100646Maybe back during the days of full strength bonuses.
>>68100708How many people are using the khop STR fix with the diminishing returns?
>>68100948Can you post it?
>>68100997It's pretty simple, up to STR 4 you get damage 1-to-1 then after that it's a point of damage for every 2 STR so 3 STR = 3 SDB, 5 STR = 4 SDB but 6 STR would be 5 SDB. So you're not horribly weak but there's still value in high STR also average STR now matches average TOU which I think helps a little for naked dwarf syndrome.
>>68100267I don't think a spike would do shit to a decent helmet.
>>68101373On a real weapon it might. On a one handed warhammer it would "catch" the dent, however small, caused by the hit and thus transmit more force to the helmeted man's head than if it slid off. No serious autist entertains the idea that you could defeat armor with a one handed warhammer. But just like with a sword, you could defeat the man inside instead.
>>68101543But what about SoS?
>>68101699+0p, AP 2... probably not much. If you get a much of successes you might hurt someone, but if they’ve got a conical helmet, you’re better off doing literally anything else.
>>68088753>The Spiritual Attributes are bomb as fuck.This needs to be said more, and it should come up in more RPGs.The way they work is fucking incredible, and while you can technically metagame that shit, I think the concept in a good group is incredible.
I'm going to run a Katana vs Longsword fecht if this thread is still up by the time I return.
>>68101926>the perfect cutting sword, the katana, the immortal blade which in its most refined form could bisect a knight in gothic plate with a single vertical slash and was used well into modernityvs>the ultimate expression of knightly art, the longsword, the most versatile weapon in existence, which could detonate a man's skull, sallet and all, sending bone fragments and shattered steel flying everywhere simply by being held by the blade and swung at his headI'm excited.
TRoS is an RPG, SoS is the TRoS for meme-spouting hema autists who thought the combat system needed to be more complex.
>>68102651BUT ANON IT HAS KEYWORDS.
>>68102651Hey, there’s a game for everyone.
>>68102740HEMA Autism is a pretty solid pitch for a system these days. All the cool kids are doing it.
Anyone got a link to The Riddle of Steel?
>>68105021You know it. Steel isn't strong, boy. FLESH is strong.
>>68101830Can you elaborate on what makes them so good?
>>68105021What do you want? The core book? The Flower of Battle? Companion? Unreleased supplement for magic?
>>68102651Is TRoS actually simpler? SoS never came across as overtly complicated
>>68110022No it absolutely isn't.
>>68101926So some posh looking knigga waltzes into a japanese dojo and makes fun of everyone's funny swords. One of them has enough and attempts to cut down the westerner right then and there. This fecht is going to be unarmored and if afterwards someone still questions the superiority of the katana, I'll run one in full plate on both.To best demonstrate the differences between the individual weapons themselves and not get too bogged down in details and variables, we'll assume that both fighters have 16 CP, 8 strength, and 4 in every other stat.Both combatants begin the fight without their weapons drawn. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in this situation it is in both fighters' best interests to go red on the initiative in order to prevent the opponent from drawing a weapon first and leaving them defenseless.
>>68111062Well, it makes sense to start with Blue or Yellow if you plan on using a move like Riposte or Counter, I think.What are the stats of the katana and the longsword ?
>>68111062You can Quickdraw into a parry just as well.
>>68111355Yes, it makes sense for the ronin to start with Yellow or Blue so he can simulates Iaido with the Quickdraw maneuver (waiting for the opponent to attack, then drawing and cutting in the same move).
>>68111355>>68111462oh nevermind, Quickdraw is only an offensive move I think. Or is it ? It's unclear.
>>68111462Yeah and if Samurai-san goes red and overcommits Ronin-kun who threw yellow can steal and cut his sword arm off.
>>68111514Here it is Ronin-kun vs Knight-chan.
>>68111494>Success: You immediately draw the weapon, and may declare a Swing, Thrust, Melee Shoot, or Parry maneuver in this same move with the quickdrawn weapon.
>>68111573Oh I have not seen "parry".
>>68111062I'm still leaning towards double red. What I'm thinking is that the knight will have to quickdraw his longsword regardless in order to survive (which isn't a certainty with the longsword compared to the katana), and if he does it successfully and also goes first, he might as well end it right then and there.
>>68111604I'm leaning towards double Blue, so that the fighters slowly turn around each other, waiting for their opponent to make the first move. Totally useless but it builds tension.
>>68111604The knight is favoured in the initiative test because he can thrust at a better TN, samurai is more likely to succeed at the Quickdraw and if he makes contact in an un-armoured duel the kill is almost certain. Going Blue getting out and rentering with weapons in hand might be a good bet for him hell Stealing with a Kick might be safer than trying to Quickdraw the longsword.
Rolled 4, 1, 7, 2, 4, 2, 7, 6, 8 = 41 (9d10)>>68111604>>68111062Let's see what happens with double red. This should be over so quickly that we can just redo it right after and see if that changes things.>Knight is doing a Quick Draw into a Swing at the Chest.>Samurai is doing a Quick Draw into a Push Cut at the Chest.Push Cut gives the samurai an extra die on the ADR check. First 5 dice are the samurai's, last 4 are the knight's.
Rolled 6, 3, 2, 7 = 18 (4d10)>>68111758Knight wins initiative and attempts a quickdraw against a RS of 2.
>>68111758You can make a Push Cut from a Quick Draw ?+ What is the AGI for each fighter ? You need to make an AGI test for the Quickdraw with RS at 1 per each 2 reach levels of the weapon past H-reach. (so RS 2 for each of them)
>>68111812Oh sorry I'm retarded, their AGI are at 4, you mentioned it in your first post.
>>68111812You cannot.>>68111573>>68111792I WARNED YOU ABOUT THE QUICKDRAW BRO.
>>68111792Seems like Knight-chan has failed his quickdraw ?
Rolled 4, 9, 4, 4, 10, 2, 7, 5, 8, 1, 1, 2, 9, 9 = 75 (14d10)>>68111792The knight fumbles around with his sword and fails to draw it in time. The rules don't really describe what happens, but I'm assuming it amounts to wasting his action (ie he draws the weapon normally). Now the question is if it's still the first action of this round and the samurai gets to draw and attack while the knight is still trying to retrieve his weapon. But since the knight declared red, he can't defend either way. Rolling the samurai's push cut with all 14 dice.
Rolled 6 (1d10)>>68111904Forgot to roll the exact hit location. Push Cut uses Thrust tables.
>>68111904You can't Push Cut from a Quickdraw, let's just make it a Thrust.
>>68111982Plus, remember that Katana has a M reach and Longsword a L reach, and the fight starts at L reach, so Ronin-kun has to spend 1 CP to make an attack move because the knight has the reach advantage.
>>68111982In that case it'll be a Swing instead. Why would you stab with a katana? This changes the hit zone to Side.>>68112002The knight didn't draw his weapon so I don't think he has a reach advantage. But samurai paid an extra die for the retroactively impossible Push Cut, so it works out either way.>>681119046 BS over the required amount. Base 6 cutting damage to the chest, upped to 11 by the extra successes. This is mitigated by 4 natural toughness, but then the Draw quality is activated, increasing the damage right back to 11.The foolish westerner gets sliced right through in the blink of an eye. As the samurai sheathes his sword, the knight falls to the wooden floor in two pieces.
>>68112162>Why would you stab with a katana?For the +1 initiative bonus.
>>68112162I demand a re-match. Both fighters start with their blades already drawn.
>>68112221It doesn't really make sense to get a bonus to initiative when you thrust from a quickdraw because thrusting from a quickdrawn is really uneasy, it's much quicker to swing from a quickdraw.
Rolled 6, 3, 9, 2, 2, 4, 6, 1, 10, 2, 8, 8, 7, 2, 7 = 77 (15d10)>>68112223Fine. Knight goes Yellow. Samurai goes Red because hesitation is defeat.>Samurai is performing a swing at the chest, all in with 16 dice, 1 substracted to make up for the range difference>Knight is performing a Masterstrike, 2 CP activation cost, 13 dice into the parry and 1 into the counterattack at the chestFirst roll is samurai's.
Rolled 6, 6, 8, 6, 5, 9, 2, 6, 1, 10, 2, 4, 4 = 69 (13d10)>>681124676 successes on the samurai's end. Rolling knight's parry.
Rolled 8 (1d10)>>68112492Samurai ends up with 3 BS over the knight, enough to activate his weapon's Draw quality to boost his damage by 4. Rolling the exact hit location, but basically, this is going to kill for sure.
>>68112467Why the hell would the knight attempt a master-strike and not just parry, then attack on his next action ? + The Draw quality of the katana gives a bonus of +3 damages, not +4.You're clearly biased and want the samurai to win. Unfair fecht.
>>68112638How many dice do you want the knight to spend on his parry?
>>681126382 extra dice literally couldn't have made the difference there.
>>68085623I'm waiting for the hardcover edition but knowing the creators it will be another 5 years
I want to see how the SoS poleaxe actually fares against heavy armor.
I'm planning to run a Gregor Clegane aka "The Mountain" VS Oberyn Martel aka "the Red Viper" fecht tomorrow, if this thread is still up.
>>68115477If you put a reverse spike on it the poleaxxe can be pretty good, especially since you can hook
GreenPill me on Call of the Void: Ballad of the LaserWhales
Question: why would you thrust versus swing or vice versa?
>>68115934Depend on the weapon you're using. Some have huge bonus on thrust or very low TN. Also, the maneuver Joint Thrust is the only way to inflict high damage to an opponent who wears a full armor, aiming for the weak spots of his armor.
>>68116053Right, but in a blossfecht, with unarmored combatants who are both using weapons that are neither better in swing or thrust TN, is there any reason to thrust over swinging, or swing over thrusting?
>>68116166I'd need to take a closer look at the wound tables. Maybe there's a difference there to warrant taking swing over thrust or the other way around. But I don't want to look that up right now.Other than that: I think - with the exception of a few weapons (ones that have the fluid thrust quality) - you can only feint from a swing. So that may factor in as well. Wanting to keep that option open.
>>68116166>>68116289Wait, no, I see it now: in terms of built-in advantages, Thrust has bonus initiative, Swing has Power Attack
>>68116166Most piercing wounds do seem to inflict less "damage" than slashing wounds.
>>68116615That makes sense, since you can't sever a limb or disembowel someone with a thrust. But thrusts have more reach, hence the initiative bonus.
>>68116696And thrusts are extremely important against armored opponents.
>>68115750Its Song of Swords but for modern combat. Nobody has really done a comprehensive review of it yet but more or less everyone agrees that it’s really good.Supposedly the developers made it as a joke, but I assume they’re prodding for a future game to make.
>>68117792The whole idea of it amused me. "Hey lets take a oversimulationist HEMA game and make it a pulp fantasy" finding players for anything is always rough though
>>68115934Swings often do more damage and many weapons have damage modifiers for swing attacks.Thrusts get an initiative bonus and can use joint thrust.The absolute maximum amount of damage you’re ever going to inflict with a melee weapon is probably with an amped up hit from a halberd or something, but thrusts can provide tactical value and can do good enough damage int heir own right.Swings also get Flourishing Drill, which is a serious “fuck you” talent if you don’t know your opponent has it.
>>68118476What's so good about flourishing drills?
>>68118771Anything that lets you recover co is boss.
Question: why would I feint? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't do anything to the defender and causes you to pay 2 CP with the sole bonus of allowing you to add more CP to your attack, which seems like a death sentence if you don't retain initiative since you'll have less CP to defend with in the next bout
>>68119859It's a pretty shit maneuver. I don't get it either.
>>68120089On the other hand they are completely broken for level 21 school characters as it means they can attack at CP×2-2
Is a combat always assumed to be at the Reach of the character with initiative?
>>68120676It's the reach of the longest weapon, changing with some maneuvers or if the shorter weapon gets a hit in, from memory.
>>68121036What if a bout is happening outside the reach of both combatants, for example, in Phase 1, combatant a used Mobile Void to increase the distance between the combatants to L, and both combatants have S range weapons. Now, they're both standing at L from each other. Does the attacker have to pay 2 CP during their attack? Does the defender have to as well (I would say no, since the attacker is the one who must close the gap)?
>>68120089I just realized the point.>declare Swing with 2cp>Opponent decides to parry with 3cp>declare Feint, pay 2cp, and pour in 10 more>opponent now has to Quick Defense or die
>>68123236Well yeah of courde thats the point. Its not that good anyway
Ok, I'm bored, let's go with a fecht.Our two fighters of the day will be Gregor Clegane, better known as "The Mountain", and Oberyn Martell, known as "The Red Viper". Here are Gregor Clegane's attributes :>STR = 10>AGI = 6>WIT = 4>WILL = 8>END = 8>TOU = 4>SDB (STR/2) = 5>ADR ((AGI+WIT)/2) = 5>GRIT (WIL/2) = 4>School Level (2H Blades) = 12>CP ((ADR+School Level+Misc)-(Encumbrance+Fatigue+Pain+Misc)) = 17As you can see, he has an insane strength, great endurance and an iron will.
>>68124620On the other side is the Red Viper. Here are Oberyn Martell attributes : >STR = 6>AGI = 9>WIT = 7>WILL = 6>END = 6>TOU = 4>SDB (STR/2) = 3>ADR ((AGI+WIT)/2) = 8>GRIT (WIL/2) = 3>School Level (Polearms) = 12>CP ((ADR+School Level+Misc)-(Encumbrance+Fatigue+Pain+Misc)) = 19He is a little weaker than Clegane but as agile as a cat, and much more skilled (his CP is normally 20 but his armor weighs 12.5, which imposes a penalty of -1 CP because of the encumbrance).
>>68124628Oops, let me correct something : >Oberyn's GRIT is 5>Gregor's GRIT is 7
>>68124650Here is the equipment of each fighter.Clegane wears a very strong armor of plates and mails that effectively protects his entire body, as well as a closed helmet to cover his head. He fights with a long claymore.Note : The « ‡ » sign indicates a weak point in the armor that can be reached via a thrust. Clegane's armor has three vulnerabilities : one on the face (narrow visor with an opening), one at each elbow and one behind the knees. If Oberyn wants to wound him, that's where he should aim.Oberyn's weapon is a spear, the Dornians' favorite weapon. It has a slightly larger reach than Clegane' s sword, which gives Oberyn an advantage at the beginning of the battle. He wears lamellar armor, less effective, and has no helmet to protect his head.
>>68124659They both start the fight with their weapon drawn. What is their stance ?Reminder :>Red = Agressive stance>Yellow = Cautious stance>Blue = Defensive stance
>>68124688yellow for the mountain, red for Oberyn
>>68125158Ok, Oberyn has the initiative. The fight starts at reach VL.>Oberyn CP = 19.>Gregor CP = 17.Choose an option for Oberyn :>1) Thrust to [pick a body part]>2) Joint Thrust to [Pick a weak spot in Gregor's armor, either Face, Elbow or Knee]Joint Thrust is a maneuver that is aiming specifically at a weak spot in your opponent's armor. I advise you to do that.Choose an option for Gregor:>A) Attack too (it would be pretty stupid since he doesn't have the initiative)>B) Parry>C) Attempt a riposte (pretty daring at this point of the fight, consists in parrying then immediately counter-attacking, using the force of your opponent against him)
>>68125316 Oberyn will joint thrust to the elbow obviously. Gregor will parry.
>>68126127Ok, Oberyn attempts a Joint Thrust to elbow. The cost is [X+V] where X is the number of dice he invests in this move and V is  + 1 per each reach step beyond M for the weapon he uses (the reach of a spear is VL, so he pays  + 2 = 4 dice, and he invests 8 dice in this attack (TN is 8 normally but a spear get a -1TN bonus, so it's TN 7)Gregor tries to parry with 8 dice too.>Oberyn : Joint Thrust, 8d10, TN7.>Gregor : Parry, 8d10, TN7.I let you roll. Tell the name of the fighter you're rolling for.
Rolled 5, 7, 10, 1, 9, 6, 10, 8 = 56 (8d10)>>68126559Let's roll for Oberyn.
Rolled 1, 6, 3, 5, 5, 3, 1, 2 = 26 (8d10)>>68126559and the Mountain.
>>68126867>>68126876OOF !>Oberyn = 6 successes>Gregor = 0 successes>Damage inflicted for a Joint Thrust = (SDB + BS/2 + WB) - (TOU) = 8-4 = Level 4 Wound to the elbow !>Extreme injury to elbow joint, nerves destroyed.>Auto-drop : Gregor drops his sword.>4 Stun inflicted.>14 Pain inflicted.>14 Bleed inflicted.Remaining dice in Gregor's CP = 9 - Stun = 9 - 4 = 5Remaining dice in Oberyn's CP = 7The edge of Oberyn's spear deploys like an striking snake and cruelly bites his opponent's flesh in the weak spot of his armor, at the elbow. A lightning-fast thrust, too swift for the Mountain's blade to intercept it. The Red Viper steps back, as graceful as a cat, ready to strike again. Gregor is now unarmed ! Oberyn takes the initiative and can attempt a new Joint Thrust : Where do you want to strike ?>1) Face>2) Elbow again>3) KneeGregor does not have a lot of option here. I don't know the rule to pick up your weapon in the middle of a fight, so let's say that his options are :>A) Arm Parry : Gregor tries to block the attack with his arm, using his armor as a shield.>B) Disarm (Unarmed, Defense) : Very hard and risky, Gregor attempts to catch Oberyn's spear and take it out of his hands.>C) Dodge : He can tries to dodge the attack at TN 8. He can choose to take 2 Fatigue point (which will reduce his CP in the next turn by -2) and lower the TN to 7)>D) Flee : He attempts to escape, if he succeeds the fight is over. Humiliating but better that than dying right ? (I think it's pretty Out of Character for the Mountain to flee a fight)So, what will Gregor do ?
>>68127066Oberyn should go for the knee to further disable him. Gregor's best option is either to dodge or go for an arm parry. I'll say dodge.
>>68127066I don't think that's right. Mountain should have armor layered under the plate.
Rolled 8, 8, 1, 7, 8, 10 = 42 (6d10)>>68127175Hm, perhaps you're right. Gregor's elbow is also protected by Quilted Long Sleeves, offering him a protection of 3 against piercing attacks. And this piece of armor doesn't have a weak spot on the elbow.So, in fact, it's a Level 1 Wound to the elbow. My bad.>Painful stab in elbow. May drop item.>Disarm vs 1 RS.>1 Stun, 4 Pain, 3 Bleed.Gregor's remaining CP = 9 -1 = 8Let's check if he drops his weapon or not. It's an AGI test at 1 RS (TN 7). Gregor's agility = 6.
>>68127175True. He has Mail and Quilted sleeves covering the ellbow (AVP 4 and 3 respectively).I don't particularly know how layer stuff works. Do they provide their full AV or just the layer value on a joint thrust or similar?My guess would be full AV applies to a joint thrust getting through the outer layers.I'm not the fechtmeister, by the way.
>>681272905 successes, Gregor doesn't drop his weapon.>>68127163>Oberyn attempts a Joint Thrust at Gregor's knee. It costs him 4 dice, and his 3 remaining dice in his move.>Since Gregor still holds his sword, it will be a parry with 8 dice.Gimme 3d10 for Oberyn and 8d10 for Gregor.
>>68127306I believe it's full values. Even with 6 extra successes Oberyn still can't hurt the guy. He's pretty much fucked.
>>68127306Oh fuck, I didn't even see the Mail protecting his elbow too. Well, I'd say it's the best AV that applies, so it's 4. Then it means... Oberyn's thrust made litterally no damage to Gregor's elbow, the edge of the spear did not penetrate the layers of tissue and mail.Then Gregor's CP is not reduced by anything, roll 9d10 for his parry instead of 8.
Rolled 4, 6, 8, 2, 5, 5, 8, 1, 9 = 48 (9d10)>>68127343
>>68127341Well, he definitely has to aim for the Face. That's litterally the only real weak spot.
Rolled 2, 10, 4 = 16 (3d10)>>68127317
Let me remind you an other option : A simple Thrust (instead of Joint Thrust) could potentially make a lot more damages to elbows and knees since the BS is not halved AND Oberyn doesn't have to pay 4 extra dice to the move, so he can invests these 4 dice directly into the basic thrust and hope for even more BS.
>>68127375>Oberyn = 1 success>Gregor = 3 successesGregor parries successfully.CP refresh, new round.>Oberyn's CP = 19 dice.>Gregor's CP = 17 dice.What do, guys ? Gregor has the initiative, he's the one who's attacking now. And Oberyn has no fucking helmet !
>>68127317Given that he's still holding his sword at this point, I would probably have gone for something else than knee.
>>6812740411 dice downwards swing at the head.
>>68127422Well, it's still RP since going for the knees and the elbows was what Oberyn did in the book, harassing Gregor in his weak spots, even without doing much damages, only to anger him.
>>68089899You just have to send them to one of the /pdfshare/ anons and they'll scrub all the watermarks from it.
>>68127430>Gregor attempts a downwards swing at the head with 11 dice, TN7.>Oberyn tries a parry. How many dice for Oberyn's parry ? Or perhaps you want him to attempt a Riposte ?Note : If Gregor's attack is successful, Oberyn is pretty much dead, considering the Weapon Bonus of Gregor's Claymore for cutting attacks.
That's riposte btw. You can use you opponent's force against him. If you succeeds.
>>68127478I think riposte into joint thrust to the face would turn the tides if it succeeds. It's very risky, but you could spend just enough CP on the parry to end up with a 1 die (+ riposte bonuses) joint thrust next action. So 12 CP spent on the parry, +2 activation cost from riposte, then next action 1 CP spent on the joint thrust, +4 activation cost from range.
>>68127627Let's do that.Gimme 11d10 for Gregor and 12d10 for Oberyn.
Rolled 4, 8, 1, 7, 8, 10, 8, 6, 6, 6, 7 = 71 (11d10)>>68127675
Rolled 5, 7, 7, 4, 10, 2, 3, 7, 1, 10, 1, 8 = 65 (12d10)>>68127675
>>68127717>>68127757God damn, 6 successes for Gregor, 6 successes for Oberyn, the mad lad actually parried successfully.Now, Oberyn can riposte with a thrust to the Face with 1 dice + 6 bonus dice (Gregor's successes).Gimme 7d10 for Oberyn !
Rolled 6, 6, 2, 3, 5, 4, 1 = 27 (7d10)>>68127795There's not much reason for Gregor not to go all out on his parry either.
>>68127824Oh shit, 0 successes for Oberyn. Well Gregor was about to parry.Let's roll 6d10 for him just to see if Oberyn still has the initiative (if Gregor also makes 0 successes) or if Gregor retakes the initiative.
Rolled 8, 2, 7, 6, 4, 8 = 35 (6d10)>>68127856
>>68127894Ok, Gregor take the initiative.New round, CP refresh. Still no damage inflicted on Oberyn or Gregor (but this fight could potentially end in one good strike).>Oberyn CP = 19.>Gregor CP = 17.What do ? Still a downward swing for Gregor ? A parry for Oberyn or a riposte ?
Rolled 3, 2, 4, 2, 4, 9, 8, 2, 6, 7, 2, 7 = 56 (12d10)>>68127987the mountain : downward swing to the head (12 dice)oberyn : riposte (10 dice on the parry, then 3 dice + bonus on the joint thrust to the face)
Rolled 7, 7, 9, 10, 6, 4, 10, 6, 5, 5 = 69 (10d10)
>>68128214>>68128174>Gregor : 4 successes>Oberyn : 5 successes. Oberyn parried the swing, now he counter attacks with a joint thrust to the face with 3 + 4 = 7 dice, and Gregor attempts a new parry with 5 dice.Gimme 7d10 for Oberyn and 5d10 for Gregor.
Rolled 6, 10, 6, 4, 2, 6, 1 = 35 (7d10)>>68128263strength builds get fucking dabbed on
Rolled 6, 3, 8, 7, 1 = 25 (5d10)>>68128263fuck
Rolled 4, 4, 3, 10, 2 = 23 (5d10)>>68128263
>>68088127Could you give a brief rundown on how its different than something like DnD?
>>68128290>>68128315Successfull parry from Gregor Clegane, once again. He takes the initiative.Holy shit what a fight, both fighters strike and parry successively, and none of them is able to touch the other. CP refresh, 19 for Oberyn, 17 for Gregor. What could they do to sort this out ?Tell me Gregor action, then Oberyn action, and how many dice they put in it.
>>68128367Btw, a bout is 2 seconds, and we had 3 bouts, so the exchange of strikes between the two has lasted a total of 6 seconds so far.
>>68128340There's an actual example of combat going on in this thread right now.
>>68128340Chargen is point-based, where things like races cost points just like Shadowrun, if you're at all familiar with it. I like this in particular because it allows non-humans to stand out better.As for combat, it's more detailed but at least for me it feels a lot more fluid and intuitive, probably because there's no HP bloat. There's a fuckton of weapons and armor, so you can go wild with how your dude looks like, like Mordhau. And personally, combat and rolls in general feels more "fair" since it's a dice pool instead of a d20, but that's just my autism being pleased. Only downside, as it currently stands, is that there's not much in the way of premade NPCs, and little to no magic (Outside of racial abilities, you only have the highest campaign levels, paladin-like dudes with their own magic) or monsters, unless you like killing goblins, so you'll just have to prep a handful of things for games.
>>68128367How about Gregor tries Break? I'd try with 12+2 CP or something.Just a suggestion. No Idea what Oberyn should do. Riposte again, I'd guess. Seems to be the best overall option.
>>68128526>>68128367Gregor can just keep swinging at the head. Oberyn's at a disadvantage here, he has to keep risking ripostes for the joint thrust.
>>68128526That would be a good idea ! Let's do that. So, Gregor attempts to break Oberyn's spear with a swing, for 12 dice. Since this is not an attack to Oberyn, Oberyn doesn't have to parry (if the Break maneuver fails, it does nothing) so Oberyn can attack directly with Joint Thrust. It costs him 4 dice for reach, and he invests... 12 dice in it ? A joint thrust to the face.Gimme 12d10 for Gregor first, then 12d10 for Oberyn.
Rolled 10, 4, 8, 4, 2, 1, 9, 5, 9, 1, 7, 5 = 65 (12d10)>>68128620
>>68128620If Gregor manages to break Oberyn's spear on this move, Oberyn is absolutely fucked (unless he gets a new one like in the TV show ?).I can't stop to laugh imagining Oberyn fighting Gregor barehanded. I'd say he should take damage to his fists simply by punching Gregor armor.
>>68128647>I'd say he should take damage to his fists simply by punching Gregor armor.If I recall correctly, punches receive full damage back on the hand on a successful punch against metal armor, so that's very fitting
>>68128640>5 successes for GregorDamage = [SDB+weapon swing damage+half BS] = 5 + 3 + 2 = 10, it's not enough to break the spear.Now, it is a golden opportunity for Oberyn ! 12d10.
>>6812867610 breaks spears. Is it reinforced?
>>68128676Wait, it is actually ! the damage threshold for spear or polearm is 10, so Gregor just broke Oberyn's spear !Now Oberyn is barehanded ! What do ?!
>>68128696Just so you know, I'll post the different barehanded maneuvers, wait a second. It can turn real funny.
>>68128696He should grapple Gregor and attempt to crush his skull with his fists
>>68128696Why didn't he...Take a defence?
>>68128732This is the only true choice
>>68128714Fistfight maneuvers.You can also attempt to disarm Gregor by grabing his claymore (extremely daring in this situation).
>>68128736Well, not really, parry a Break maneuver with your weapon doesn't really make sense since the attack is directed to... your weapon. It doesn't change anything. And in the case of a success, it's not like you take damage so... Oh, I guess we could have tried to dodge but what is done is done. Guys, if Oberyn survives two rounds unarmed, his assistant throws him a brand new lance. What do you think ?
Oh and by the way, Oberyn has no profficiency in Grappling so his CP is... 7 dice. Good luck Oberyn.
>>68128732I'd love that but what maneuver allows this ?
>>68128844Defaulting to grappling from polearms is -5 dice.
>>68128882Oh god, so Oberyn has only 2 dice to attack ?Well... He can still attempt to take Gregor with him to the ground with a Shoot Takedown with 2 dice, what do you say ?
>>68128880Grappling then punching.>>68128882Defaulting caps at 6 though, doesn't it?
>>68128882>>68128922Oh sorry I didn't understand, so Oberyn has in fact a CP of 14. Ok.
>>68128696Gregor still has the inititaive. Swing at the head and finish it.
>>68128925Ok so first we take him to the ground with a Shoot Takedown (grappling), then when both of them are on the ground, Oberyn starts punching Gregor in the face.How many dice on the grappling move ? Not a lot since Gregor is not defending himself (he has already acted this turn), we only need 1 success at TN 8.
>>68128968Well, he acted with Break, but Oberyn hasn't acted right ? So it's his turn now. Gregor can't make two move successively I think.
>>68128696Oberyn is refunded half the CP invested into his interrupted attack, then they both declare again. Gregor has init.
>>68128990Ok, I didn't know this rule. So Oberyn recovers 6 of his 12 invested dice. His CP is 13. Gregor's CP is 5.Gregor attempts a swing (downward) to Oberyn's head with 5 dice. Oberyn attempts a dodge with, what, 8 dice ?Gimme 5d10 for Gregor and 8d10 for Oberyn.
>>68129022If it's the second action, that means you get a reset after this, meaning there's not much point for Oberyn not to go all out.
>>68129033Ok, so 13 dice for Oberyn dodge.
>>68129022It's round 2 of the bout, so Oberyn really should go all out
>>68129022>>68129033And Oberyn would have to steal initiative to not get decapitated
Oberyn could probably use the end of the spear as an impromptu dagger. It's better than barehanded fighting a warrior in plate.
>>68129043Well, it's the last action of the round so we can't act after getting the initiative. It's safer to dodge with 13 dice, we'll get the initiative automatically if we succeed.
>>68129073Would it be better to mobile void so Oberyn can close the gap?
Rolled 6, 9, 5, 3, 8 = 31 (5d10)>>68129022
>>68129073Void only takes init with 2 succ.Steal Initiative is a quick maneuver, and can therefore be paired with another. That's what the lightning bolt symbol means.At least, that's what I infer it to mean as I don't think it's specifically mentioned within the book.
>>68129084You're right, mobile void for Oberyn with 13 dice then. If he succeeds, next turn he can attack at his reach without spending any dice.
Rolled 5, 5, 5, 9, 9, 3, 5, 9, 7, 9, 9, 3, 10 = 88 (13d10)
Break seems broken as fuck if players can't parry or really work against it.
>>681291176 successes for Oberyn, he skillfully dodge Gregor's strike and close the distance with him.CP refresh for both of them (Oberyn is at CP = 14 because he's fighting barehanded, Gregor is at CP = 17), Oberyn has the initiative.Shoot Takedown to take Gregor to the ground ? How many dice ?
>>68129121It's the maneuver for getting in on 2H spearmen.Going in against a sword or even 1H spear + shield makes Break way worse.The real broken maneuver is Beat
>>68129121They can absolutely defend against it. Voiding, parrying, etc. still work perfectly well. You could even arm parry (not necessarily the BEST idea)
>>68129121Well, you have to do a lot of damage to break a weapon like a sword. Spears and polearms are made in wood, that's easier, and Gregor only made such damage because of his insanely powerful weapon (claymore). It's more difficult than you think and it leaves you defenseless if you fail. I'd say it's a pretty risky move.
>>68129137Do a Clinch(Attack) instead with 10CP, targetting Gregor's swordarm
>>68129183Btw, how do Gregor defends against a grappling attempt from Oberyn ? Dodge ? Parry with his sword (that would be weird)
>>68129193Oh, I just checked, it's a Parry, yes.Gimme 10d10 for Oberyn Clinch(attack) to Gregor's arm, and 8d10 for Gregor's parry.
>>68129121Frankly unless you're a meat mountain it's very unlikely for it to work in the first place.
>>68129193He can make defensive maneuvers as normal. A successful parry will turn into a swing or thrust with 0BS to Oberyn's (1-3 left arm, 4-6 right arm, 7-8 chest or head 9-10)
Rolled 7, 10, 10, 10, 2, 2, 9, 8, 7, 4 = 69 (10d10)>>68129205
>>68129156Then how come Gregor was able to break Oberyn's spear with no counter play action? It was just "I go first. I break spear."
Rolled 1, 4, 1, 7, 2, 2, 8, 10 = 35 (8d10)>>68129205
>>68129236Going first is king in SoS.If Oberyn had made a defensive maneuver he would have been able to reduce Gregor's succs by his own, in this example a single succ would be enough to save his spear.Also, damage doesn't maintain. You have to make a single attack for 10 damage. You can't do 9 damage one time and 1 another.
>>6812923610 STR + 3c from the weapon. He needed 4BS.He had initiative and his maneuver was unopposed (no defensive maneuver was declared against it), so it resolved first.I think that's it.
>>68129236because I fucked up, I should have proposed you to dodge or even riposte. My bad.
>>68129258I don't think it was that stupid. If Gregor fucked up he would have won.
>>68129235>>68129247>Oberyn = 7 successes>Gregor = 3 successesOberyn grabs Gregor's arm, and they are now grappling. Oberyn regains BS=4 CP.Oberyn's remaining CP=8.Gregor's remaining CP=9.Oberyn has the initiative. What do ? We can try to break his arm.
>>68129289LIMB BREAK, ALL DICE. I've been wondering what the defender does in a grapple.
>grappling the strongest guy in the worldlol
>>68129301Both declare at the same time. Whoever rolls most succs activates their maneuver. Succs cancel out as per usual. If they roll the same succs then the maneuvers cancel out.Limb break is easier with a pin. I say we try to go all in on a pin to make this easier for us.
>>68129301I'll check the rules.
>>68129310It'll make the victory all the sweeter.
>>68129317Pinning sounds good.
>>68129317>>68129289>>68129301>I grappled him, I pinned him, then I broke his arm LIKE THIS
>>68129301Well, I just checked the book and when one of your limbed is trapped by your opponent, you can do pic related maneuvers to defend yourself.Choose which one Gregor attempts.
>>68129365Why would you do something other than Slip?
>>68129365Can Gregor just try to steal initiative and use a punch or other to crush Oberyn's head LIKE THIS? He doesn't strike me as smart enough to actually fight from the ground.
So Oberyn attempts to damage Gregor's arm with Grapple:Limb Break with 8 dice at TN6.What does Gregor do ? I think he try to force with 9 dice, after all he's a brute.>>68129397Because if you succeeds with Slip, you're still trapped, you just negated your opponent's attack. If you succeeds with Force, you're no longer trapped, you can get up and start swinging with your sword again.
>>68129365I'd say force>>68129397Because slip has the same TN as force in this situation but is harder to pull off. The only time you'd do slip is if you're not trapped or pinned and the target is trying to trap or pin you>>68129411He wouldn't need to steal init. He could just throw an elbow for Oberyn's mouth.
>>68129411Well, yeah, he can do that. But he has not a lot of CP left in his pool. How do steal initiative works already ?
>>68129438You roll (ADR+Reach Advantage+mis) against target. The initiator can also add 1 for every 2CP spent. Winner gains/retains init.
>>68129257Which doesn't make sense. Every other attack has allowed the opponent to respond, why would that maneuver be any different?
>>68129466Ok, so Gregor tries to steal init. It costs him 4 dice (Oberyn PER), he has 5 dice left.Gregor's ADR is 5, Oberyn's ADR is 8.Gimme 5d10 for Gregor and 8d10 for Oberyn, if Gregor has more successes, he can attempt to punch or elbow Oberyn in the face with his 5 dice left. (but Oberyn can try to Quickdefend)
>>68129470This was already explained to you 3 times.
>>68129470Oberyn got a chance to respond. He could have attempted a dodge. Instead he gambled that Gregor'd fail his check and lost the gamble.
Rolled 1, 3, 8, 6, 2, 3, 1, 10, 8, 2, 10, 9, 5 = 68 (13d10)>>681294865 first dice for the mountain, the others for oberyn
>>68129470Oberyn DID have a chance to respond. He chose not to because Gregor needed a lot of successes to actually break the spear. If Gregor had failed Oberyn would have been able to respond next move with a 19 die thrust to the face/groin etc. But Gregor succeeded, so Oberyn chose... stupidly.>>68129430If he doesn't steal Init Oberyn could break his arm and the stun and pain would cause his elbow to fail.
>>68129511Oberyn got more successes. He now attempts to break Gregor's arm with his 8 CP.Gimme 8d10.
>>68129515>If he doesn't steal Init Oberyn could break his arm and the stun and pain would cause his elbow to fail.>>68129486Remember to increase Gregor's TN by 1 for Oberyn's trap
>>68129511Looks like Greg C's arm hurts, since he's taking Oberyn's SDB -1 + Half BS (1), but not broken
Rolled 4, 5, 3, 10, 5, 10, 8, 8 = 53 (8d10)>>68129536let's go
>>68129536Aren't we going for a pin?
>>68098032It already has dwarves, goblins and multiple flavours of elf. What more do you want?
>>68129560>Oberyn got 4 successes at TN6Damages = [SDB-1+Half BS] = 3 -1 + 2 = 4Level 4 Bludgeonning wound to Gregor's arm !>>68129575How do you know if the limb is pinned ? I think it's juste trapped by our Clinch(Attack) maneuver.
>>68129624>How do you know if the limb is pinned ? You perform the Grapple:Pin maneuver. A pin is just a trap but increases TN by 2 instead of 1 and also makes some maneuvers more powerful, such as limb break.
>>68129624>Forearm is shattered, automatically drop items>Auto-drop : Gregor drops hiw claymore>8 Stun>14 Pain>6 Bleedoof
>>68129643Well, we didn't do that so it was not a pin, but still, we managed to break Gregor's arm anyway. Now we could try to choke the guy to death...
So, new turn, both fighters are still on the ground, Gregor has a broken arm, he roars with pain and rage.Oberyn CP = 14Gregor CP = 17 -[Pain-Grit] = 17 - 7 = 10Oberyn has the initiative, what do ?
>>6812964914 DIE PUNCH TO THE FACECRUSH HIS SKULL LIKE HE CRUSHED ELIA'S
>>68129697Just a reminder that the guy is still covered in armor so punching him things like that will not work. But we could choke him to death, what do you think ?Btw, I'll go dinner, I'll be back in 1h, but another anon can continue the fight for me.
>>68129697Throw him to the ground
>>68129754Oh right, he's wearing a helmet. Never mind.
>>68129829>>68129855Yeah, that should be a level 2 bludgeoning arm wound, since Greg's TOU is 4.
>>68129879TOU 4 means 4 less damage. So it's level 0.
>>68129894I thought he did 6 damage, I'm being stupid
>>68129754I've got an hour free right now.>>68129894Correct, we'll get rid of that.Oberyn has initiative.Oberyn CP: 14Gregor CP: 17Gregor's Right arm is Trapped, increasing all TNs by 1.What do?
>>68129936Oberyn should probably go through with the pin and keep trying to break his arm. I don't really understand defensive grappling so someone else should figure that out.
>>68130033Sure Oberyn tries for a pin.I'd say Gregor wants to either Force his arm free, or start elbowing Oberyn in his unarmored face. Or he could try to turn it around on Oberyn and start trying to trap limbs himself.
>>68130033As per >>68129542 you seem to be able to use literally every maneuver (that is not simultaneous) to defend.Both maneuvers get declared and rolled at the same time.The one with more successes actually resolves. That's how I understand it.>>68130075I think I'd go for the ellbow.Also, I think Gregor's CP needs to be adjusted for defaulting. 2H Sword to Pugilism (if we go with the ellbow) -4. Actually, defaulting to grappling would be the same.And the 14 CP of Oberyn, are they already adjusted? Seems like it has.
>>68130370They are, Oberyn's defaulting for grappling as well
Nevermind the ellbowing.Pommel strike is at H reach, and at TN 6. So using that would be better, I think.Would only have to pay one dice for the Reach as opposed to 4 dice for defaulting.
>>68130455That makes a lot more sense. Wouldn't it be hand off though, since he can't 2h with one of his 2 h's being grappled it? Unless the rules aren't that granular. And Greg's claymore doesn't HAVE hand off (although since he canonically liked to use his sword one handed, it should)
Rolled 6, 1, 10, 8, 6, 9, 9, 7, 9, 6, 5, 8, 5, 1, 8 = 98 (15d10)>>68130475Gregor's swordarm is trapped so he cannot do a pommel strike.Oberyn will go for a pin with 7CP (TN7) [First 7 dice]Gregor will go for an elbow with 8CP (TN8) [Following 8 dice]
>>681306061 Succ for Oberyn, Gregor's Swordarm is now pinned to the small of his back. Gregor now takes +2TN to all maneuvers.I assume Oberyn's going to go for an arm break now? Things are looking bad for Gregor.
>>68130630Yeah, a limb break is the most sensible thing to do here. Greg would realistically still try to elbow him, even though the mechanically sound thing for him to do is Slip and hope for 2 BS
>>68130630Gregor could attempt a head butt right in Oberyn's face with all his remaining dice.Even if Oberyn tries to break his arm, he'll probably not get a lot of damage thanks to his toughness.
Rolled 10, 6, 6, 4, 6, 8, 9, 3, 5, 4, 2, 1, 4, 3, 7, 4 = 82 (16d10)>>68130718This sounds baller as fuck, let's go with that.Oberyn launching an arm break with his remaining 7CP [TN6]Gregor going for a headbutt with his remaining 9CP [TN8]Oberyn's dice first, then Gregor's
This game is bananas and I love it.
>>68130745Looks like Oberyn just sprained Greg's arm while Greg tried to headbutt someone who has him in a hammerlock and failed miserably.That's a level 2 bludgeoning wound to Greg C's arm, based on Oberyn's half BS + SDB, right?
>>681307456 succs against 0.(SDB-1+Full BS) Damage = 8 DamageReduced by Gregor's Toughness of 4 gives us a level 4 wound to the Elbow.>Auto-Drop, Surgery vs Crippled Limb>Elbow Broken or Severely Dislocated8 Stun, 14 Pain and 3 Bleed.Gregor must succeed a 8RS Stability check or fall prone. He has no chance to succeed this, so falls prone anyway.Oberyn braces a hand against Gregor's elbow and rotates the arm against it, despite the armor covering his arm the sounds of sinews snapping can be heard. Struggling from the pain, Gregor falls to the floor, but he's not out yet.Does Oberyn want to drop prone with Gregor?>>68130837Since the arm was pinned this time, Oberyn gets full BS.
>>68130837[SDB-1+Half BS]-TOU=[3-1+1]-4= -1In fact, I don't know if you have to substract TOU from the inflicted damage when you break a limb. If you don't, then it's a level 3 wound.
>>68130911Oh yes, it's 6 success, not 3, I'm dumb.
Is there a maneuver to plunge your fingers into your opponent's eyes ?
>>68130850Gregor's CP is reduced to 10. Oberyn maintains initiative with 14CP.Going prone with Gregor will turn this fight into a ground fight, which will give Gregor 4 more CP and Oberyn 3 more CP, but give Gregor an additional +1TN as he does not have initiative.>>68130971Eye gouge was removed, unfortunately. Besides, Gregor's wearing a helmet so that'd be very difficult, if not impossible.
>>68130981I say Oberyn grapples Gregor's head, and if he succeeds, he attempts to choke him to death. And Gregor tries to push Oberyn back with a kick.
>>68130837Half BS would mean 1 + SDB which is three, right? So minus TOU it would again do nothing, if I'm not missing somethin-Oh fuck me. TN6.Well I think this might be Ogre. 14 Pain, 7 get through the grit. So Gregor is getting -7CP until the wound is healed, right?Also, didn't original Fecht anon say that in two rounds Oberyn gets a new Spear? Damn, I rooted for Greg, but it's looking bad.Also, while looking for the maneuvers pic related caught my eye. They both should get bonus CP equal to their SDB. Not sure if that was accounted for, I think not.
>>68131021Uh... no, I assumed the previous anon had accounted for that. Gregor is on 14, Oberyn is on 17.I think it makes sense for Oberyn to go prone with Gregor to push the advantage, and then we'll follow through what this anon >>68131018 says unless anybody else has an idea?
>>68131021>Oberyn's attendant throws him a new spear>resolve as a TN7 missile attack against Oberyn
Rolled 1, 5, 10, 4, 4, 3, 2, 10, 2, 8, 7, 1, 9, 5 = 71 (14d10)>>68131046Alright.Oberyn goes to Trap Gregor's head with his left hand and 7CP [TN7]Gregor will go for a knee to Oberyn's groin with 7CP [TN10]Oberyn's dice first, then Gregor's
>>68131126Successes cancel each other out.
>>681311261 succ vs 1 succ, the two of them cannot find an opening either way.Also, since this is a ground fight now, both fighters get full STR to their CP, Oberyn gains 3, Gregor 5 for a current total of:Gregor: 12CPOberyn: 13CPTry the same again?
>>68131162wait no it doesn't work like that. None of them made a defensive move so both succeed in their attack. The attack of the one with initiative is resolved first, then the attack of the other is resolved, but I think both succeed in their move since it wasn't Attack VS Defensive move.Right ?
Wait what happened to his broken arm?
>>68131221In a grapple all maneuvers count as both defensive AND offensive. Successes cancel out, most succs wins.See here:>>68129542
>>68131234Gregor's right arm is currently Crippled, meaning Gregor will be at a major disadvantage to use his right arm. Namely that any check made with the arm will require 4 more successes to go through and gain +3 to their TN.
>>68131162Try the same.
>>68131284What about the pain and stun?
Rolled 6, 4, 10, 5, 4, 2, 3, 9, 3, 8, 3, 1, 8, 2, 9, 2, 5, 6, 3, 10, 6, 3 = 112 (22d10)>>68131291You got it. They'll both sink all their CP this time.Oberyn: 13CP [TN7]Gregor: 9CP [TN10]I re-crunched the CPs. This is right.Oberyn first, Gregor second.
>>68131328Oberyn successfully gets a grip on Gregor's head. Oberyn is now in a good position to try to either break Gregor's neck or could try to force Gregor to submit.Gregor's going to need a miracle to get out of this.CP reset:Oberyn: 20CP [Initiative]Gregor: 16CP [+3 to all TNs]>>68131310The stun forced Gregor to fall down, the pain is reducing his CP by 7.
>>681313284 succ for Oberyn, 1 succ for Greg. Greg's head is now Trapped.
>>68131377>>6813138720 CP Neck Break at TN7?
>>68131400Since Gregor is wearing a plate gorget that covers his neck, he will still get 3AVB on that, and since Oberyn is only trapping the head he'll only get half BS to damage. It's very unlikely to kill but it'll be flashy.Gregor's probably best trying to force his head free.
Rolled 10, 8, 7, 7, 1, 9, 9, 3, 2, 1, 2, 1, 6, 6, 1, 2, 5, 2, 4, 3 = 89 (20d10)>>68131400>>68131436We're past bump limit, so i'll go for the 20CP neck break.With this in mind, Gregor's going to do nothing, since he has no chance to get anything through here, but will be able to force free with 1 succ if he lives.beryn: Neck Break 20CP [TN7]
>>681315006 succSDB-1+0+Half BS = 5 damageGregor's Gorget reduces that by 3 to 2 damage and his toughness reduces it by 4 to 0.Gregor now has a chance to start turning this around. Oberyn cannot defend himself. Gregor only needs 1 succ to have any maneuver go through and he has 16CP to do it with.I'd recommend forcing the head free or going for an elbow to the face or knee to the groin
>>68131538Knee to the groin, no dilemma. The pain could be enough to end the fight if we hit strong enough.
Rolled 10, 1, 2, 1, 3, 6, 1, 3, 4, 6, 6, 8, 6, 2, 7, 6 = 72 (16d10)>>68131622Let's hope so, anon
>>68131637>I KILLED HER, I RAPED HER, AND I KNEED HER IN THE GROIN LIKE THIS
>>681316371 succ. That'll do SDB+1+BS damage to the groin.5+1+1=7 damage to the groinReduce by 4 for toughness and 5 for armour.This also deals no damage, however, Gregor now has initiative.Fucks sake, the only damage anyone's been able to do was the arm break, and that took 3 turns of setup.Oberyn'd better go for the submission hold next.CP reset:Oberyn: 20 [+1TN]Gregor: 16 [+2TN]
>>68131683Pin the neck with 10 CP for Oberyn, attempt to destroy the nuts with another knee for Greg?
fuck (male) zell butt
Rolled 5, 8, 5, 1, 4, 2, 1, 3, 4, 3, 7, 2, 5, 5, 10, 7 = 72 (16d10)>>68131699Sure, I'll halve the CPsAlso, going to change that to a headbutt, since that is more likely to work. Gregor: 8CP Headbutt to the face [TN:9]Oberyn: 8CP Grapple:Pin to the Head trap [TN:8]Gregor first this time as he now has init
>>68131744Oberyn pins the head.Gregor: 8CPOberyn: 10CP
>Tfw you'll never see an episode of GoT in which Oberyn and the Mountain are fighting on the ground, kicking each other in the balls.
>>68131759Oberyn breaks the neck. I imagine Greg can no longer headbutt. Face bite?
TN9 is insanely hard, Gregor should try to force himself out of Oberyn's hold.
Rolled 6, 5, 9, 6, 2, 2, 5, 8, 4, 6, 1, 3, 7, 7, 9, 5 = 85 (16d10)>>68131809A neck force is still unlikely, but we'll give it one more go.>>68131820Well noticed. Mountain will try this.Oberyn: 10CP Neck break [TN7]Gregor: 6CP Force on head [TN8]Oberyn first again as he now has init
>>68131871Oberyn gets 1 succ. What's the damage, chief?
>>68131871Oberyn succeeds with 1BS.SDB-1+Full BS:3 damage, all absorbed by toughness.Refresh. Oberyn: 20CP [Init]Gregor: 16CP [+3TN]I'm going to recommend a Submission hold from Oberyn. He'll probably finish this in a couple turns if he does.
>>68131919We WWE now.
>>68131919WALLS OF JERICHO
Rolled 1, 2, 1, 10, 8, 6, 7, 2, 7, 9, 7, 6, 9, 10, 5, 3 = 93 (16d10)>>68131949>>68131960Alright lads.Oberyn's going for a 8CP Submission hold [TN7]Gregor's going for a 8CP force on his head again [TN8]
>>68131983Oberyn edges it out by 1 succ.Gregor takes 1 stun, reducing his remaining CP by 1 to 7.If Oberyn makes this maneuver again it resolves at TN6 and deals BS Pain. A couple good rolls will have Gregor begging for mercy.Oberyn yanks on Gregor's broken arm and forces it between his shoulder blades. For now it only stings. For now...
>>68132011IS HE GONNA TAP?
Rolled 4, 1, 6, 6, 6, 5, 10, 5, 1, 2, 8, 2, 2, 6, 4 = 68 (15d10)>>68132011Oberyn maintains the submission hold, Gregor tries to force free againOberyn: 8CP [TN6]Gregor: 7CP [TN8]
Rolled 10, 9, 8, 10 = 37 (4d10)>>681320553 succ for Oberyn. That's +3 pain. Gregor's cap is reduced to 13. When that hits 0 Oberyn wins. Also, I've missed 4d10 for Oberyn, rolling those now for extra pain.
>>68132080Alright, refresh.Oberyn: 20CP [Init]Gregor: 9CP [+3TN]At this point Gregor's pretty fucked and is probably tapping.
Rolled 1, 7, 8, 7, 3, 2, 9, 6, 3, 4, 1, 6, 7, 6, 4, 9, 10, 1, 6, 8, 5, 5, 1, 6, 5 = 130 (25d10)>>68132094Let's finish in style with a 20CP Submission hold though. Oberyn only needs 9succs to make Gregor helpless.Gregor's going to try to force his arm free from the hold with 8 dice.
Rolled 10 (1d10)>>681321188 succ for Oberyn. Gregor gains 8 pain, putting his cap at 1. Gregor tries to free with 1 die, TN8
>YOU RAAAAAPED HER !
>>68132151Holy shit, the madman actually did it. His arm is free, but his head is still pinned and he's overwhelmed by so much pain he's barely conscious.Refresh.Oberyn: 20CP [+1TN]Gregor: 1CP [+2TN]Oberyn can do just about anything here to finish this. What do you fellas have in mind?
Bite his throat and tear it up.
>>68132183The pain from submission hold is removed bevore the refresh. So Gregor should have more than 1 CP, I think?
Oh wait, nevermind. That of course needs the submission hold to be broken. Which I don't know if it is in this case.
>>68132229Ah, you're right. Gregor gets refunded the 15pain dealt by the Hold, putting him back on 16CP.Back to square one by the looks of things.This is my issue with SoS, when too much armour gets involved nothing fucking happens.
>>68132281Yes, armor is fucking broken. Like in real life.
>>68132344>>68132281I don't think it would be so bad if Gregor also wasn't massively ripped to a point he can ignore most damage.
At this point he could probably grab his sword, half-sword it, and joint thrust his fucking face until he bleeds out.
Rolled 8, 3, 1, 1, 1, 7, 8, 9, 1, 3, 6, 4, 1, 9, 6, 2 = 70 (16d10)>>68132344Good point.Let's try Oberyn picking Gregor up, while Gregor swings for Oberyn's face.8CP [TN9] for Gregor8CP [TN8] for OberynGregor first, Oberyn second
>>68132281Well, Gregor could have ended it at the beginning, I think. If not for those pesky Ripostes. Those worked wonders.And Oberyn was not equipped well for Armored opponents, I think. A dagger with thin blade may have helped. Could have Joint thrust at Gregors face with a good TN.>>68132389Did he have any extra TOU? I think we went with normal 4 TOU on both fighters here.
Rolled 5, 1, 6, 3, 8, 2, 3, 7, 9, 9, 10, 1, 1, 2, 1, 4 = 72 (16d10)>>681324031succ vs 1succ. Cancels out.They both try the same again>>68132400OP didn't give any of the fighters side arms, which are pretty necessary for this kind of situation.>>68132411Gregor has no extra toughness, just plate and mail layered on eachother for some pretty high AV.
>>68132437>OP didn't give any of the fighters side arms, which are pretty necessary for this kind of situation.He can grab Mountain's claymore. Greg sure as shit can't use it anymore.
Rolled 3, 4, 2, 1, 4, 7, 2, 2, 2, 7, 7, 8, 9, 1, 3, 10 = 72 (16d10)>>68132437Oberyn pulls Gregor to his feet. The fight is now a standing grapple again.Refresh:Oberyn: 17CPGregor: 11CPOberyn's going to throw Gregor onto his back as that ignores armour. Gregor's going to attempt to force his head freeOberyn: 8CP [TN7]Gregor: 8CP [TN8]
>>68132469Gregor successfully forces his head free. Oberyn now has no grip on Gregor. If there is no trap or pin after this the fight resumes at HA reach.>>68132455This is a good point actually, although Oberyn isn't proficient with it.
Rolled 1, 9, 2, 4, 3, 1, 5, 9, 10, 8, 10, 3 = 65 (12d10)>>68132492Oberyn's going to go for a trip with his remaining 9CP, Gregor's going to void with his 3CPOberyn: 9CP [TN8]Gregor: 3CP [TN8]Oberyn first, Gregor second
Rolled 9, 10, 7, 8, 2, 10 = 46 (6d10)>>68132553Gregor must pass a stability check with 4RS [TN7]
>>68132566He remains standing, grapple ends. This is now a fight at HA reach. Gregor's right arm is broken.This has been one hell of a slugfest, but it's looking like a stalemate for the foreseeable future. I got shit to do, so unless someone else wants to take over this'll be it.
I've gotta go as well. Sleeping.Thanks to the two Fechtmeisters, and to everyone else as well!.
>>68132588Mountain is still bleeding from his wound, isn't he?
>>68132715Not by enough to trigger a roll. He's got 3 bleed, the minimum to trigger rolls is 5
Well, seems like it's a tie. The longest SoS fight I've ever seen.
>>68132924Fatigue didn't come into play either
All these knees to the groin while IN GRAPPLING that happened in this thread were actually quite unrealistic to pull off IRL.
Where the fuck is the new handbook
>>68134636I too am angry about this