This is a crowd sourced endeavor to create a setting and rpg.What was produced is pic related, the setting of LEVIATHAN (the name is a work in progress), the World of Sacred Oil and Broken Stone. The purpose of this thread is to organize to continue filling out the Lore Document, congregate for map making, and for developing an RPG system for this setting.The story of the world is emergent, being developed as we discuss and explore the Compass. The Docs provides most in-depth explanations of most items, but the main conflicts of the setting are as follows:> The Lapsarians have a secret Bargain with the Ocean Gods for Oil: A fuel source, the heart of the recent industrialization, and food-item which provides boons to those who consume it, though at a cost> The Durite people who are colonized by the Lapsarians are revolting, drawing from both traditional and newfound powers to fight back against their opressors> The remnants of old Lapsarian Rebellions, such as the Last Captain and his crew, still haunt the waters where they were defeated, a sacrifice as part of the Bargain> New powers, like the Industrialists and the Tycoons, fight for dominance in the cities, opposing both each other and other groups (such as the mysterious Hooks) in an ever escalating conflict> All the while and above all human struggles, the Monolith and the Sea Gods exert their influence, their goals (if any) unknowableLore Dump Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RjU2GkiDq5tJ8Ih9A9LxyHhC3cvmQANYG579UDgxuOM/edit?usp=sharingRPG System: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f5_EIAdm3fwycQjU4nyoCoAqdRtDj0-rDgtw170SpsALast thread: >>82094674Ongoing Discussions:> General Lore corrections > Political Structure of Jansentorf > Detailing/Expanding Durite lore
>>82111560Damn, I don't have the original files to do it correctly. Well, the thread died anyways, so I just posted the last version we had
I put the Jansentorf/Yothenstein stuff on the docs as is, and archive last thread.
added a bit of lore about Tsarist Kossoki to the doc. the tldr is >Kossoki that settled in cities>most join on as a paramilitary/police force of the church>a sizeable amount have been drafted to comprise and train Lapsarian Cavalry regiments>freedom is dead doomers>many turn to use of salt and oil to numb the pain
>>82111789The Kossoki crossed the river to get away from durites, because their people where becoming sedentary and abandoning their customs.They end up being unable to roam anymore, and convert to local Lapsarian faith.Lapsaria is where hopes and dreams go to die.
>>82111817more like the Kossoki were sent across the river for criticizing the faith in the monolith and adopting Lapsarian faith. most still roam but some see the corners of the map closing in and give up.
>>82111789i like it!
So when is the lapsarian gopnik going to appear?
>>82111817> Lapsaria is where hopes and dreams go to die.kek
>>82111874roughly 150-200 years down the timeline, but Lapsaria is definitely a few decade ahead of the rest of the setting due to the boon, so who knows we might see fishy adidas in a few years
>>82111625hopefully we can get a few autistically dedicated writefags to flesh out Jansentorf like we have for the Kossoki, I'm liking how they're coming together
>For about 500 years now there has been an interim regency as the last emperor of Jasentorf that has more or less become the actual head of state>Without a Gilded Caesar the prior religious instability that racked the state came to an end, as every principality could freely practice their own beliefs>Prior the strong position of the Caesar (or emperor) allowed a swift executive branch that had power over the Principalities, Republics and Theocracies>In the modern day, several dynasties have a stranglehold on politics, and the struggle between traditionally stone and traditionally fish families is rising>The stranglehold of serfdom has spread across the country from it's old heartland in the west, and is now visible to even Lapsaria>Likewise, the powers of the old religious hierarchies, micro-republics and free-cities is fading>While Jasentorf has never known peace, the internal wars are beggining to resemble the last Time of Troubles in JasentorfThoughts?
>>82111938I still prefer the council moderated by an arch-bishop.
>>82111938i like this, though I think we can incorporate >>82111983's idea of a religious figure moderating the council.> traditionally stone and traditionally fish familiesI'm not sure if that's what you meant, but I don't think it's a good idea to have tthem directly worship the sea gods. Maybe have Fish and Stone inspired religions, but neither directly related to their objects? (Much like the original Lapsarian faith is Fish inspired, but not directly related to the Ocean gods)
>>82111983>>82111938with the archbishop idea the only issue I could see is that the arch bishop could just veto anyone that wasn't of his faith, and I'm kinda liking the internal religious struggle idea could also be moderated by a chancellor ellected of the princes, though there hasn't been one in some time as they can't come to an agreement on who it should be
>>82111983Here's the thing. Archbishop of what?I've no doubt the council has several major religious figures from longstanding places. But I feel that they need more fleshing and distinction, as well as representing the religious nature of Jasentorf's regions.Personally, I'd prefer we have two figures of stone, two of fish and potentially a tie breaker from something else, perhaps the Head Man of Jaentorf herself or an esoteric figure neither Fish nor Stone.Of course, the Fish and Stone of Jaentorf is not the Fish and Stone of Lapsaria. The local entities will be different.
>>82112071Of stone of course.If Fish was widly accepted in the world, than why are every fish worshipper hiding their faith?Aleria alreacy says that it workships fish, ro the dismay of the church, so there is a church.Like someone said before, we are tring too hard to have a balance of everywhere must have one fish and one stone.
>>82112130Also the parent organization of the carver monks has their center of power in Jasentorf right? There you go, that's the church.We are also having everywhere have an empire, what was suposed to be a confusing mess was an empire all along, Masovii turned into an empire with vassals, Lapsaria is a empire, Goguryeo is an empire. Yothestein was a republic, turned into a princedom somewhere, someone is probably going to want to turn them into the power behind the Jasentorf too and become a empire.
So since the Monolith is in Masovii one of their constituent tribes most likely discovered it first. I feel as though the Durites would have discovered the worship during their nomadic period, and as the worship of the monolith spread, so too did their agrarian lifestyle, with only some remaining nomadic, say like 1/3, aside from the Pilgrims, which could be either nomadic or sedentary in their average life but travel to see the monolith. I'm thinking close to a millennia maybe a few has passed since the Durites found the monolith. would they have worshipped anything before it?perhaps the dead gods of the sky, and those old tales told by Kossoki grandmothers predate even the Kossoki by thousands of years.
>>82112130>If Fish was widly accepted in the world, than why are every fish worshipper hiding their faith?They shouldn't.Jasentorf is a state divided and is once again experiencing internal religious turmoil. Even though I imagine coastal culture has been the minority, the council granted the figures two seats to ensure their interests weren't trounced.>>82112187Jasentorf WAS an empire, but has basically died a death by decentralization. Masovii is a commonwealth and Lapsaria is a Tsardom.While technically Jasentorf is still a state the individual electorates matter more now in definition.
>>82112199>So since the Monolith is in MasoviiI think the idea was for it to be in no-ones territory. It's near Masovii, but not inside it's borders.> traditionally stone and traditionally fish familiesWhat was somewhat estabilished was that what drove the Durites to Sedentarism was Lapsarian Colonization, which is one of the reasons they are rebelling.
>>82112199If the monolith was in Masovii, why are they paying respects to the slat plains instead?I think it's deaaper inland, way deeper.
>>82112187i second this dismay regarding empire inflation. I cant make out any power relation because everyone seems to be supercharges
>>82112199the monolith is in masovii? I thought it is explicitely not. The monolith is at the center of the vast, outside of any organized state
>>82112205if you openly worship the king, youre gonna get gifts. If there are fish worshippers in the real, unhidden sense in jasentorf, they're gonna be mutants. Thats not negotionable. And probably that would lead to bigger problems than just religious strife
>>82112234>>82112242I could've sworn that was one of the reasons Masovii held so much power, as they could control access to the monolith. at least I'm pretty sure that was part of the original pitch for their empire
>>82112259I don't remember that being the case, but i dont think it fits with current canon anyway
>>82112257>if you openly worship the king, youre gonna get gifts.Not everyone worships the King, in fact the three lesser gods (who are important regional entities) had more of an impact on the day-to-day of the common Lapsarians. We can assume similar entities exist in the rivers and lakes of Jasentorf, but they should be defined. And of course they'll likely be radically different to the Lapsarian gods.Same thing with the stone, if the Carver monks are common place. There was religious strife, although I like to imagine the prior move away from a monarchy to a descentralized state did away with that.Until recently of course, when the normal dynastic conflict started to heat up when a certain Deacon began making waves.I'll propose this;>For the past few centuries "His Land, His Faith" has been the status-quo. The Majority of the country was Stone-Orientated and rife with Monastic orders. However there are several Alpine, Marsh and river entities that co-existed within their own principalities. But over the past few decades things have changed, as the Fish principalities became increasingly dominated by a single family. A spectre is haunting Jasentorf, as regionalism and powers like Yothenstein continue to outweigh the decrepit council. And that isn't even touching the terror of Industry that looms over the Gilded State.
>>82112268It was before there was even a name for the country
>>82112268>>82112234I agree. The religious aspect of the Salt plains would be somewhat lost if the Monolith was within Mazovii's borders. Plus, the idea of the continent still being not fully explored/conquered, and the pilgrimage to the Monument being a defining trait of it's worship is really cool.
>>82112311Lapsaria doesnt qorship the king nor his tributaries who bestow his gifts openly. those that do get gifts. I dont get why youbwant to change the fundamental building blocks of the setting
>>82112205Commonwealth can be empires, Britain was, and if Poland/Lithuania didn't get tagteamed by Sweden and Russia during massive rebellions, they were in the perfect position to do so too.Something that the Masovii are already doing, because they have a subject nation, have a unifying faith amd are multiethinic, that's an empire.And Jasentorf being an empire before is the problem, because 500 years ago it was united and strong.How about in the lands of Jasentorf there was once an empire, 1800 years ago, but it fell. 500 years ago was when the remmants or people caliming to be remmants decides to form a loose confederation, there form forming the gilded states. The old capital of the empire was a bishopric of the stone faith, so they would act as impartial moderators to the conucil of princes, they can't prosecute faith and can't veto, they are there to make sure the princes don't murder one another in broad daylight.The church has power because the old empire was stone-aligned, but they were persian like in that as long you payed taxes and had a Menhir raised somewhere, you could do what you want, you don't even needes to workship it, that's why the Alerians are still fish people.Even fish aligned families try to play the elections of the Arch-Bishop of the Gilded City to get someone on their side in power.Recently, there have been a movement that wants to remove the position of moderator from the bishop, some stone princes support it because they keep losing, and some fish princes oppose it because they like how it ia/can rig it in their favor.
>>82112257Thats why I made them their own separate part, theyre still part of the confederation, but their rwlation with the rest is strange, strained and the stone church dislikes them for obvious reasons, when I get back home Ill make cursory lore for the coast of the mainland and flesh out the mountains more.>>82112187I support jasentorf being little more than a backwards confederation of outdated states which by now is only united to prevent being the next durites or the next sligaff in the great game.Too many empires not enough weak states.
>>82112336right. That makes the stone flat lore strange. Personally i much prefer the neutral ground thing but it's whatever
>>82112384Also Ill give some love to some states i think would be cool to have.>>82112311Hmm, I disagree on somethings but ill make a complete post when back home in a hour or so.
>>82112386I'm fine with whatever, I just know that was the original idea, it could be that the Salt Pan was worshipped by one tribe and the monolith by another, and when the Masovii took over they merged the faiths like how the Roman empire assimilated the gods of other religions as aspects of their pantheon
>>82112386I agree on the monolith being neutral ground.>>82112418But that doesn't stop this from being true too.
>>82112411But I intended alerians to have an aspect of moon worship in their fish religion, gibbous moon and all that.While the lakes at the mountains are safe to dive in, and thus coveted.
>>82112199perhaps the schism between the Durites and Kossoki came because the Kossoki believed the Durites had abandoned the old ways of the now dead sky gods, and the Durites considered the Kossoki heretics with the Durite word for heretic being the original root for Kossoki. With the Kossoki going on to adopt the faith of Lapsaria, and tensions between Kossoki and Durite only growing from there until they were exiled.
>>82112482I'd really apprwciate if you could post a wojack of these guys so we can get a ferl for the vibe you want for these dudes. there is a kind of guy i would be fine with fish worshipping, but mostly, it's symmetry wank
>>82112522I thought of that too, hence>>82111817
>>82112368How about you tell me the lore then since you know so much of what you're talking about.>>82112378I'd prefer an organic transition. Yugoslavia isn't gonna get the band back together because Austria thinks Slovenia looks real nice this time of year. Let's say the Golden Empire transitioned to the Gilded State more swiftly in response to external threats. Albeit 'swiftly' means decades after the 'Crisis of Nine Monarchs.' This preserved the existing religious structures, which remain nebulous.So we have an Arch-Bishop of the the Golden City. Who else is here? A transition from Absolute Monarchy to confederation means acknowledging the other religious institutions.Obviously we have the Carver Monks, Who are their contemporaries? Their Sister Orders and the Distinctly local orders? What other Hierarchies like the Arch-Bishop?And who are the Minority 'Old One's'? Their own orders?I'm going to put together some smaller powers as well, if for no other reason we have some contrast to the big three we have established.
>>82112567still thinking they converted before crossing the river, which was basically the straw that broke the camels back in the tensions between them
>>82112576>How about you tell me the lore then since you know so much of what you're talking about.I have been trying to but at this point it's too much work to repest myself. do your thing, knock yourself out.
>Principality of Freeskalön>Nightmarish little shithole nestled on the border between Jasentorf and Lapsaria, nominally granted independence eight centuries prior and neither the Tsardom, nor the States want to deal with them>95% of the country is swamp with only a single central plateau useful for non-kelp farming. Mostly occupied by long out-dated fortifications>While the 'Order of the Great Cow' is technically the only religious hierarchy and seems Fish, it isn't and seems to be completely neutral in comparison to the Lapsarian and Jasntorf Coastals>The 'Great Cow' of Freeskalön is the oldest of the Sea-Cows, strange breathing creatures that are kept by the Freeskals like herd animals, and the Great Cow is now so large the Order's Elders live on its back>While most Sea Cows are herbivores, the Freeskals feed the Great Cow human sacrifices>Freeskals when trading are agreeable people and export Sea-Cow Milk, Willow-Furniture and nominal amounts of 'sea-stone' to their neighbors, which is actually jsut a hardened kelp chunk>When not trading, the Freeskals are introverted, and if threatened are terrors when the swamp begins speaking Freeskal>>82112639I don't know what you want me to say man. But I guess I'll just try to contribute.
>>82112576You seen to think that there is only one anon disagreeing with you, because I'm not the one that said they joined because of outside threats.I went out of my way to try and change what two other anons wrote and your so they could work together, even though I didn't like your idea to begin with, and you wentbagainst the spirit of collaborative writing and put you foot down to do what you want?
>>82112482Tjeres still time so I will do this.Proposition for types of polities in jasentorf:Lordships/counties: regular old monarchic statesPrince bishoprics: self explanatory realm of the church in the earthBurgs: city states mainly coastal and governorship works via shares, the more shares ypu own the more control, thouhh absolutism is prevented via an overseers council that can force you to sell shares among other things (very corrupt even if family members of big share holders arent allowed in, he who bribes the most wins)Knightly states: the long ridiculed warrior class of jasentorf and their landed holdings. They ha special military obligations. Scattered all around, they will answer the call when the time comes. Theres more just.
>>82112700>Sallow State of Sudawas>The Minor principality locked on a nebulous border between Masovii Lands and the Lapsarian Frontier, dominated by a forest of the 'Red Titans'>Red Titans are enormous Sequoia like trees that while they seem to be made of stone grow like wood, and while the Sudawii aren't religious they're ferociously protective of the forest and their homeland >Sudawii people are moss farmers, living off of pigs, chickens, and moss that grows one the sides of the Titans, the moss giving their skin an odd dark red colour that fades without the moss>The Sallow State is governed by a council of elders, who are notorious for being easy to bribe in minor matters, allowing frontiersmen to freely pass through Sudawas and establish several minor townships>Dead Sudawii are ground into powder and buried outside the forest, and eventually these graveyards will sprout new Red Titans>>82112775I don't know whose disagreeing with me, and I don't really see that. What I'm seeing is fundamentally different views of Jasentorf. I'm fine with surrendering my position but it feels like a very small group of people talking around each other. Perhaps we should run some polls and clarify the positions?>>82112910I'd favour lordships over counties, along with potentially a 'higher' class of monarchic state. I'd also some variance to the Bisphorics, which strike me as the most organized religious states, and are perhaps connected to the Knightly states.Other than that I have no complains.
>>82112576I kind of created this monster so Ill say Id like the origin of the confed to be kept vague, its old, its a backwater, its 1000 microstates in a trenchcoat nothing more needed. The apocalypse backstory is unnecessary.
>>82112910we could reintroduce the Tarca Union as a constituent state of Jasentorf, two smaller kingdoms, that through marriage have unified to consolidate their power. Unified they're one of the more powerful states in Jasentorf, and one of the main agitators in the Yothestein mercenaries old wars.
>>82112576So the carver monks are an entire arm of a bigger organisation, which is probably the entire church.If they work as missionaries and scrives, it means that the other arm should be the actual prieat that do the ceremonies and keep the temples. So maybe call them the Keeper Priests?There is a leadership that is meant to oversee both of the branchs, to make sure a heresy or schism doesn't happen again. They should be the bishops. The arch-bishops are the heads of the biggest places of worship, and are elected, but the canditates are choaen based on seniority.Eacj arch-bishop is independent and equal, because there is a position that is above them all, the patriarch, the one that is responsible for the monolith. Whoever, there has been no patriarch since the death of the second, because he died before naming a sucessor.In practice, the Arch-Bishop of the Gilded City is seem by many as a unofficial leader, since it's where the greatest and most imacullate Menhir is located.There have been attempts to build another to surpass it, but they all failed, for multiple reasons.
>>82112985>The Kingdom of Guthall >An distant Nation far from Lapsaria, in ancient days the Guths raided and settled on Lapsarian shores, and was the center of a vast Empire>This Empire was devoted to the 'Old Olm', a nebulous creature that lived under the island of Guthall and called for immense tribute the Guths struggled to supply>At some point this empire collapsed when the Olm vanished, and Guthall shrank away, their settlers eventually integrating into their new homelands>Recently, rumours have arrived that a 'Singing Olm' now inhabits the darkness of Guthall, a stranger creature than the Old Olm that makes those historically minded nervous>Guthall has long supplied sail-ships of great size and strength to the world, but recently the introduction of Lapsarian Ironclads have devastated their industries>Olm Hounds are common pets on Guthall, though they are rarely ever seen off-island>The Ashen Order>Religious Order of crazed Yothenstein monks who moved onto an actively growing volcano island>Generally insular, because no one wants to meet a bunch of monks snorting volcanic ash and enduring the magma flows>Have been sending out perfect obsidian bricks recently, maybe they're doing something productive?>The Stone Wails Here>The Nubile Stone is Perfection Made Manifest>What Works Will Be
We have 4 additional pieces for the chart. If we were to increase from 9x9 to 11x11 we would be at 85/121. It's still be quite an endeavor, but adding 36 seems less daunting than the possibly doubling we were at when we going up from 8x8.
>>82113079The patriarch was the keeper of the monolith in a spiritual sense by the way, he didn't live there, nor the church has control over the llace where it is.Well, the second did live there, but he also chose to starve to death looking at big rock and nearly deatroyed the faith because of it.
>>82113079> Fail to elect a Monarch> No more Monarch> Fail to elect a Patriarch> No more PatriarchI see that it runs in the blood.Are there other branches? Perhaps a sisterhood of Nuns of some form? Other Monks who take up other practices?Did the Patriarchs consolidate all of this? When and How? And what was the impact on the rest of the region?
>>82113130don't worry too much about fitting the Kossoki Guard in, I mostly just made it as visual reference, functionally they occupy a similar state as the Lapsarian officer
>>82113130how about multiple 5x5 for geographical parts of Lapsaria and the vast? I'm the art fag, i'd enjoy tzat
>>82113130Let it ride for right now, I'm still proposing some new states so the world is more flushed outside of the three powers that are currently.
>>82113130What about 10x10?I am down to increasing the Seawall to a 2x2, to keeping it centralized, and increasing it's relative importance in the Lore.That way we have 81+4+3=88/100 and need only 13 more slots to fillThat is, if we are even going to expand the compass further, though I'm of the opinion it's big enough as it is>>82113156I think we can put some oif the ones tthat dind't make it inthe compass into the Lore Document, both so they aren't lost and to illustrate things.>>82113161I'm not sure about a 5x5 just for geographical locations (Though it does sound interesting), but the idea of general 5x5s for other topics is a good one
>>82113174Increasing the size of the Seawall would work. We haven't expanded on it too much yet, but there's a lot that could be done with it.
>>82113174we could move the original wojaks to their corresponding lore sections, and add new sections and pictures for those that lack one right now
>The Sunken Land Khalat>Located on the opposite side of Jasentorf to Lapsaria, Khalat was once a peninsula on which a powerful kingdom grew and thrived>This was back in the iron age, when Khalat and Jasentorf were the worst of rivals, and the Kings of Khalat recieved tribute from all places their boats reached>Except that place with the creepy worm thing>For thirty Kings of the Pink-Salt lineage, the Khalats held what might have been the greatest strength in all the World>No one knows why, but after the death of the thirtieth King, the sea swallowed up all of Khalat, and the stone idols of the Kingdom watched>In these days, several princes claim the wet isles as their own, but no one really controls it, aside the remaining natives>The Khalati sing of pale salt and a sacrifice abandoned, and wait for when the day when the waters forgive them and allow them to reclaim their strength>>82113130We could make a 5x5 for Jasentorf, just to show what's going on in there and it would let us work out what's happening inside the Gilded Lands
>>82113155Patriarch weren't elected, they were chosen by the last, just like the patriarch was "chosen" by the monolith.The second starved meditating on the monolith so he could choose a sucessor, but he died before he did.The faithful became desperate became it could mean that there was noone worthy.Yes, there have been heretics that mesitated on the monolith and went around saying they were chosen to be the third, happens quite a lot actually.Like I said, Carver Monks and Keeper Priests are the main arms, so inside them there is space for orders that are diverse, like some that are female only, some that are male only and some that are mixed.I was thinking that the faith was from the empire broke, the patriarch had lost faith and went to the monolith to die, and in there he had a revelation, reformed the old faith and fot a lot of traction.But I kid of agree with this anon >>82112990 that letting the past be unclear is for the best.
I'm still waiting for someone to steal the compass and post it on reddit.
>>82113311If you want it so bad, I'll do it anon. Just for you. Hell, I'll even shout you out if you will
>>82113011But if they are part of Jasentorf, hiw are they foign around full on inquisition on the fish heathens?Better for them to be a neighbour that suddenly became quite powerful due to a marriage.Or maybe Tarca itself is part of the Gilded state, but the coastal kingdom isn't, so it's fair game because there are no laws protecting them.
>>82113249>The Mountain of Birk>Why is this mountain so big?>Why are there so many esoteric orders and lakes and lakes on this mountain?>Jesus that's a lot of lakes.>The Birkers just sort of got used to Stone Monks and Hooks murdering each other on the Slops>This Algae isn't gonna farm itself after all>The Birkers have formed a weird anarchist collective situation, and no one is around to stop them>That guy who just showed up with mining equipment might change that>>82113307I figured, but yes it seems fitting. So, at some point an ancient state, collapse and reformation of both state and religion. That works. >>82113356After the collpse and the reformation, several principalities were designated as strictly Fish, and initially this produced an equitable situation. However the line of scaley hapsburg has spread out to more or less form an informal alliance of the monarchist fish states in the mountains and on the fringes, and yes they just went and had to absorb some surrounding Kingdoms which poses an existential threat. Does that work?
>>82113130Do you have the images for the ones still left to add? For us to add in the document as references
Its interesting how fundamentally different lore creation is without the compass
>>82113408The Compass centralizes, and gives us firm axii to work with.Right now we're just kind of floating around, doing the 'Blind Men and the Elephant.' Except it's neither Blind nor a Man nor an Elephant.
>>82113408It's a lot more fighting for one.>>82113387Tarca was suposed to be stone hatin on fish, not the other way around.Unless that's what you meant and I'm retarded.I still dislike the whole openly fish being accepted though.
>>82113454Yea and the protestants hated the Catholics, but when things go to shit for a few decades you eventually compromise.Jasentorf is 85% stone, 15% fish. It just so happens that the Fish components are unified, giving them an edge. As for the Union, if they're Stone then what is their position in the state? This feels up in the air.
>>82113408That will tend to happen. For projects like this we have hit the point where most tend to either die to have a few dedicated individuals take it on more fully. I expect this will be how things go if we end up moving forward. I'll try and keep things together on /tg/ as much as I can, but seeing as I am only really available for part of each week I can't keep things nailed down too well.The dream is this moving forward like other autism projects on /tg/ and eventually having something together that can be posted elsewhere.
>>82113454>>82113429how ironic the anons working on jasentorf are infightingMight be worthwhile to make a compass just for the groups within Jsaentorf, so you guys can keep all your lore straight
>>82113483Honestly, the Tarca were created before the states even existed, so fuck if I know.The original idea was that they literally Castille and Aragon going spanish inquistion on a few fish heretics that never converted, I even had planned for them to have had a monopoly on trade with the sunset islands that they lost, but went back on it because it was too on the nose.Actually, how about this, Tarca and the other kingdom are actually neighbours to the gilded states, theyvare not members.However, the royal line is from the same dynasty from one of the princedoms.
>>82113504i fear it may already be too late, even the sanctity of compass squares will br in doubt. The Patriarch is dead.
>>82113538at the end of the day the region is your guys' baby, it would definitely be nice to see some kinda Tarca/mercenary connection to keep the dream alive
RULES ITEMS:Character creation is 6PIP is tied to both culture and social standing. The way I want to get the thread at large involved is by providing both a Background and Novice Lifepath template. To give an idea of what I mean by these I will give some examples of what would be a background:>Durite>Rural Lapsarian>Urban Lapsarian>Caprian>Venitii>etc.Background out a general culture. A background is defined by giving you a base level for your Statistics and a list of Novice Lifepaths that you qualify for. Novice Lifepaths can best be defined as a Player Character's childhood and young adulthood. Some examples include:>Street Urchin>Debutante>Beautillion >Apprentice>Shepherd Boy>Fisherhand But can be more esoteric examples like:>Experimental Subject>Drone Feeder>Sainted Child>Stone Tapper A Lifepath has a point limit you can spend while having it before transitioning to your next life path. The kind of lifepath (Novice, Journeyman, or Master) determine the number of points you can spend before transition. A Lifepath will discount skills, statistics, and perks (Perks are things like skill specializations and the like). Novice paths are defined by having no requirements except your background. Journeyman have a small number of requirements. Mastery have many requirements. Also, just because there is a Novice path by a name doesn't mean there can't be a Journeyman by the same name. The Novice Nomad path could transition to the Nomad journeyman path.The above are generalized examples, but this should be culture specific ones that allow you to get an initial flavor as you create your character.
>>82113504You know what? Fuck it. No one knows for sure what the fuck happened when the Gilded Empire broke, in the periods of chaos that followed meant most of the documents have been lost or destroyed.Some say that the empire never fell, just declined and degenerated. Some say it completly disappeared, and that the states are nothing but usurpers wearing the skin of a dead nation, orhers that is somewhere between, and the majority just don't give a shit. The surviving proof can back any of these claims.What is know however, is the Gilded Caesars are gone, the Arch-Bishop controls The City, the princes are the council, and that are lines draw.>>82113555The patriarch may have died, but faith lives on!
Oh and if Timajor anon is lurking I had an ideaThey may not wear the traditional caps that the traditional Kossoki wear, but the Oseledets they wear is meant to symbolize that their Kossoki spirit has not died.
>>82113616I have sacrificed my baby Tarca to austim collective.I just like the idea of having some minor nations sprinkled as well, ao it's just not a bunch of big people playing in a small pond.
Okay so last thread I was told to draw a prince and an arch bishop. Now I'm not even sure if there's an arch bishop left. COuld someone give me a rundown on the least controversial aspects of the two so I know what to draw?>>82113624did you happen to see/save the wojaks of last thread? The Lapsarian noble and the priests?
>>82113680I have seen then, yes. They are safe if we upgrade.
>>82113680They are still there, don't worry.Maybe make the Prince an inbred habsburg.Being deformed helps hides the mutation of the Fish
>>82113697if you have them all would you mind chucking them in their relevant places in the lore doc
>>82113676"TImajor anon" here - yea, totally, go for it. I'd go so far to say that they see themselves as Kossoki, just of a different feather. I would expect that the other Kossoki wouldn't fundamentally disagree with that.>>82113677there are already way too many big players. Good on you, reasonable anon.
>>82113708the Kokkoki are a mixed people, I imagine ideals matter more than ethnicity
>>82113662This is not an attack on the other anon, is an attenot to find a way to fuse all the ideas and still make them work.Maybe the empire used stone tablets to record everything, so the religious reform basically meant that there was an actual dark age where no-one was documenting anything properly.Maybe that was a reason why the faith was so strong, other than sheer size. They were the one that could compare if all those deals made during that period were forgeries or not. And maybe let some of the actual usurpers pass if the local bishop was corrupted[/spoiled]Your catholic vs protestant won me over, even it would be more of a catholic vs pagan/zoroaster/whatever situation
>>82113504Stone forsaken Torfers, they ruined Jasentorf!Right now the point of contention is fish and stone, but I also feel there should be some serious disagreements in the camp of stone that dominate the political sphere. Like, who is Yolth supporting with Mercs? Who are they fighting and over what? Where are the Kingdom shaped tumors threatening the stability of the greater whole? Where are the Free-Cities?
I don't want to shit in the punch bowl here, but I feel obligated to say.Keep in mind that a lot of the appeal of these kind of settings is that things are purposefully vague and elude to bigger and greater things... Mysteries that are never fully elucidated are more gripping than ones that have cracked wide open and laid bare.It's a fine line between adding more fleshy details and showing a little too much and spoiling the mystique.Just a thought going forward.This isn't aimed at anyone or anything in particular. I'm suggesting this as a guideline when approaching horror/mystery.
>>82113705Can't, I'm at work.
>>82112556It's not symmetry wank, they're swamp dwellers in a more wet sea-oriented environment in the south, also a way to make the empire not be homogenous as just 1 culture like the HRE got in its later years.
>>82113826aight I'll do my best to track them down through the threads and put in a few
>>82113805There is an idea on the doc that Yo has a bunchbof mercenaries because it just came back from a big series of wars to retake their position as a princedom.That left two generations of veterans without a place on society anymore, and a bunch of oversized mercenaries companies without a job.Just so happens that the Macovii werr hiring, and they were desperate enough to be both experienced and cheap, but very outdated compared to lapsarians.
>>82113843Also, I'm back, Tiem to keep working on shit, maybe even make a wojack for aleria another one for the mountain and jensentorf.
>>82113912ALso, update me on what lore did you fags come up with?
>>82113923By the Stone there's so much, and it's still up in the air.
>>82113815I think we said something similar regarding the whales yesterday
someone ordered a retarded prince
>>82113815i would like to underline this with a big, fat pen and suggest that this is the reason why compass-based lore seems so intruiging, and wall-of-text-based lore seems kind of shit in comparisson.
>>82114019A true Habsburger
>>82114019some say I left a gap in the side of his face. Those people are scoundrels
>>82113923Small rundown is: there was old empire, empire broke (fell, declined, disappeared).Old empire was stone, but used satraps so the local culture weren't erased.During that time the Stone Church (Needs name) was founded, claim to be continuation of old faith, but it's basically the same thing between saying a cristian or a muslim are hebrews.The states are formed like they are now, unsure if mutated form of regency or a coalition of mutual culture.Smashing majority of the faith is stone, but some places still have old believers because the states like to pretend it follows the old custom of not forcing religion.The old capital is at the hands of the arch-bishop, he is an impartial moderator to make sure the princes don't just brutus and caesar eachother.I proposed that the reason there was a dark age of knowledge was because the old enpire used stone tablets, and whe the trouble began, the nerds were too busy killing each other over how to worahip a big rock.So now all that is left is oral tradition, foreign documents, dogmas, broken slabs and some forgeries that were acceptes because the local bishop was corrupt.But it doesn't matter because that's the past and wars are fought in the present, let the Keepers and Carvers worry if it was spelled Caesar or Cesar.
>>82114019>>82114053Perfection.>>82114076I think I don't know what small rundown mean.
>>82113815Of course, but this is less "what's in the lake" and more "who the fuck am I paying taxes too."So to that end, potential internal entities in Jasentorf.> The Burgermasters > An informal agreement of the free cities currently sweating in the corner, the cities are hotbeds of internal conflict already between the guilds, the monks, local aristocrats and foreign industrialists muscling in> This can't go on forever> The Venerable line of Zufshenzaal> The culmination of two hundred years of contentious breeding that saw the southern Damplinds unified under a singular family, while they are oddly swarthy they don't seem to be inbred> Weird eyes, but voices like silk and a genuine excellent rule. They've also seen the nearby kingdom of Jolnoa added as the jewel to their crown> I've got a bad feeling about this> The Auldrun League> Neighbor to Aleria and deeper in the mountains> A combination of the only interior 'Lake' counties and the Pillarlings> Despite this have a shared language and are turning increasingly hostile to outsiders> What exactly do you mean 'it had claws' what are you talking about> Where did this cheese come from>The Grisser Lands> Subject to furious internal debate, the old Grisser Princedoms have remained contested by the armies of just about every one of her neighbors> Single-handedly responsible for filling Yothestein's coffers for a period of three decades> No one was happy with the results of the succession> The drooling idiot in charge is gonna die at some point> They've been hoping he'll die for the about twenty years> Sage country> The Local princes are kidding themselves if they think they've got any power.> The Arch-Bishop of Vorjk has letters coming in from all over the world> Wait a second whose that guy with the yellow crystals growing out of his face> Oh no> Oh sweet mercifal pillars no
>CCA controls the google docs>CCA controls the compass fileCCA must die. He controls too much.
>>82114076Old believers are in the city-states of aleria right? Where the gibbous moon shines bright and the dark sea flows freely.I again propose to leave a lot of things vague, keep to the old pol comp format, few outline and gist of the thing, no overly elaborate backstories. But somethings in my opinion should be kida fleshed out, mainly things from the now, and let history and magic be vague and with a lot of room for the imagination to dwell, though we can keep the old empire idea in a way.
>>82114138And a few inland lakes and rivers, just like the ocasional coastal city might be stone.The more the place is a confusing web of faith, alliances and people, the better in my opinion, to capture that HRE feel.
Yo the art friend that drew this lmk if you'd be willing to draw a chad version of the handmaiden for something like a court noble with some of the tell tell signs of oil consumption. Pretty much a fusion of the handmaiden and the oil savant.
>>82114191Alpine Lake folk get along better with Alpine Carvers, the Cities tend to get along (or despise) city folk more than anyone else.Regional commoners are also probably more aligned, as Jasentorf hasn't really had a central language in living memory.
>>82114234The courtier? Someone made a noble so separating the names could help.>>82114266"I may hate you, but I hate those other guys more. But I hate those other other guys even more! And don't even get me started on those other other other guy!"
>>82114324Ooh I'm thinking along the lines of Tsarina's Suitors, Instead of a general courtier but both fit a similar enough role.
>>82114402Tsarina's Lovers could work too, lmk which sounds the most appealing.
>>82114234I'll do that.Arch bishop>Don't talk to me or my hat ever again>Wrangles Princes for a job>Has personal ambitions but there's not enough cohesion for him to realize them
>>82114449I like the symbol, it looks like the Monolith.Also nice hat.
The Indentured DuriteThe Durite Migrant>Needs to feed his family>Has moved to the city for work>Lapsarian clothes to fit in>has to remind his children to speak Durite at home
It's finally here, the alerian citizen/merchant idk which one is better.>He doesn't talk about it but he doesn't hide it, here in aleria, they all know.>Keeps inviting you to parties under the full moon. >Keeps a vial of poison on his person at all times.>Dislikes lapsaria, a lot. So what do you think about it?
>>82114721Tried my best at gils, if someone wants to improve them they're free to do it.
>>82114721Ah yes, the Venitii long lost cousins.Nice job anon.
>The First Traitor>Eons ago, before life knew breath and eyes knew light, all we ever knew was the sea. The all embracing love and all crushing joy of the sea. Those that dwelt there knew no danger, for all was just in the embrace of the Deep.>But children swam farther than they should, farther than their Father bid them. They believed themselves stronger than the rest, more loved than the rest, better protected.>But the while the reach of the Deep is long, the pull of arrogance and doubt is stronger. Strong enough to whisper into the ear of one poor soul, to trick It into beaching himself and wriggling up and onwards - towards some unknown mountain far into the Vast. And there, far from home, It was changed. Devoured. Damned.>To the Durites, It is known as the Great Teacher - He who taught the farmer to plow with His great tail, the archer to aim with His flaming tongue, the horse to run with His great stride.>To Jasentorf, It is the Stollenwurm; the monster to whom a thousand princes and knights have met their "noble" end; a frequent subject of heraldry and tragic opera.>Even to the Brackish Ones, It is the Lost Brother. He to whom a million regretful tears are dedicated each day; invisible but not unremembered in the blackest abyss.>But to the Church, It is the First Traitor. The First to hear the Monolith's Call. And for It, there is no salvation.Why did he do it, bros?For those worried, it's not a god, it's this setting's dragon/satan archetype. Big dumb salamander monster. Might be a ghost of some sort, I did want there to be some foreshadowing of what happened to the Last Captain only in reverse.
>>82114774"Lol," whispered the Monolith. "Lmao."
>>82114099Will try a stab at something like this.>Marquisate of Sourance >Rich and lavish off weapon sales and profit.>Mighty walls.>The marquis is known the hero of grisser, for who exactly no one knows.>His superiority has caused some controversy.>Something lurks in the streets and the halls.>The marquis is getting old..>The balneary county>Entire economy is catered around giving nobles a place to rest in peace in the high mountains.>A neutral relation to league of townships to its slight south.>The manager seems simple and boreing.>But he has a well-placed ear in every room every bath.>The position of manager is slowly mutating into one of minor nobility, he has a voice in the mountain confederation. And a nice manor.
>>82114774Yothesian mercenaries and a keeper trying to repel the traitor and it's dumb fishy face.
>>82114956i like this lore
>>82114234>vgThis what you had in mind? I can still change stuff if you would like me to, it wouldn't be a problem
>>82115048I can already here the "DOHOHOHOHOHO"
>>82115048I think he wanted a man.However she is cute so I support.
>>82115066depends on how open minded the Tsarina is
>>82114402>>82114425I did not see these posts here. dang.
>>82115101Don't worry, it's now cannon the Tsarina likes girls
>>82115119I hate that I've caused that. Not because i'm against a lesbian tsarina, but because I know how fucking weird /qst/ tends to get about lesbians.
>>82115119Well, she still could just be a general courtier.Although a catherine the great style sexual scandal/rumours could give some flavour.
>"Oh, fuck you stone man. Maybe you and I should settle it right here on the oil-ring if you think you're so tough."
>>82115138Eh, she strikes me as someone whose able to 'do for duty.' But is headstrong enough to keep a side-hoe. Which... If it doesn't produce loose ends it's well enough to be ignored by high society.>>82115146>It was her DAD who had the thing for the fish monster>And the horse
>>82115138I'm sorry, but that's how it works.> I know how fucking weird /qst/ tends to get about lesbiansI don't. Is it something I want to know?>>82115146> catherine the great style sexual scandal/rumoursI think that'd be interesting. Despite looking early 20's, the Tsarina is actually 30-35, if we're going by the timeline described last thread. It'd make sense she usees her appearance as a tool.
>>82115181>I don't. Is it something I want to know?they just get extremely horny
We all know the Tsarina's true sexuality.
>>82111576so we have a few subtitle options >Empires of Sacred Oil & Broken Stone>Empire of Sacred Oil & Broken Stone >Empires of Dust & Oil>The Vast & The Deep>Of Oil & Dustand I'd suggest >Of Sacred Oil & Shattered StoneWhat are your thoughts on the matter?
>>82115188I don't know what I expected.
>>82115159Amazing, true art.
>>82115048This picture inspired me to create this dude, the social climber, a guy who wanted the good life and now is way over his head in this shit.
>>82115222Thi is a joke image and shittily made. I will be making a serious one soon.
>>82115193Personally I'm fine with the status quo.
>>82115231the status quo is having 6 subtitles
>>82115193I support removing the s from the empires.
>>82115247Same. Unless we want to add a legitimate equal to Lapsaria, "Empire" makes the most sense.
>>82115263seems like Masovii is gonna be a quantity over quality equal to Lapsaria
>>82115276Even them, Masovii is not of sacred oil and broken stone, more like of salt and coin.
>>82115276What's their military like?
>>82115294Salty coins and (yak) milk, if you will.
>>82115295Winged hussars and cannons of course.
>>82115295hasn't been expanded on much, they lack for industrialization and make up for it with sheer quantity of steppe tribesmen. they're implied to be powerful however as even Lapsaria wishes to avoid causing open conflict with them.
>>82115334Is their infantry more pike-and-shot, or are have they upgraded to full musket lines?
>>82115334They do have black salt, so maybe they are not as behind on industrialization as othe places.
>>82115346My proposal was going full fantasy anachronism and have Tercios and Gewalthaufen with modern-ish rifles, and mounted knights in three quarter armour with 18th century pistols
>>82115346we don't really know yet. Yothestein supplies them with mercenaries that use pike and shot tactics. given the polish-lithuanian commonwealth inspiration behind them I wouldn't be surprised if they had a heavy focus on cavalry, both light and heavy.
>>82111576Why Lapsarians have army? Do they even wage wars or something like that?
>>82115295Irregulars and unmodernized, but with a strong cavalry army and an a solid sky-fleet that is the only real modern element they possess.>>82115346I imagine they have one or two modernized units, many more older style pike-and-shot, and a host of tribal militias to call upon worse comes to worse.
>>82115276maybe in-universe, but not narratively.
>>82115379Last Tsar was very paranoid.Tsarina decided to invaded some tribals.
>>82115386I think the Durite colonizationis a bit older than the Tsarina, it's just that recently they've started rebelling
>>82115048>>82115066Lmao yeah I wanted a dude but this is too cool not to add to the 11x11
>>82115369Now this is an idea I can get behind.
>>82115379yea, constantly, internally and eternally
>>82115379they're currently in the midst of a civil war fighting their rebelling colony, and they have a number of unruly nomadic peoples within their borders that left unchecked could lead to banditry.Additionally they have powerful neighbours with whom religious conflict is basically only a matter of time.
>>82115402>>82115386yea, Durite colonization seems to be about a generation or a bit less of age
>>82115410and I'm sure new expansion plans are in the work once that pesky Durite uprising is put down
>>82115386>>82115410And? They turned these tribes and nomads to dust consider Lapsarians military tech advancement?
>>82115417I'd say it was 40-50 years, considering there was considerable enough changes to Durite demographics and lifestyle for it to be a problem, and for there to be 2nd (or maybe even 3rd) generation Durites in the cities
>>82115444Oh no no no. Wait till you see the top of his-Oh no no no!
>>82115379I also think this settting is already in, or at lear nearing, the point is history where having a standing army is a must for international diplomacy. Sure, you might not have the intention of attacking anyone for now[/spoiler, but the state can field an army of a certain size without extreme costs, and not having this army might project an image of weakness to your neighbors.
>>82115444it's important to remember, the tech advancement is really mostly going to be felt in industry and naval power. An infantry man in a uniform will die to an arrow just the same.and the technological revolution was only about 30 years ago, their infrastructure is still catching up to the technology.
>>82115444they've destroyed their conventional military capabilities, yea. Now they're annoyed by supernaturally supported guerilla uprisings
>>82115417>>82115451Durite colonisation/annexation will have begun either in the reign of the last tsar, or as a result of the Bargain (depends on how you read the Doc/General Overview section).Even if it began under the last tsar, it will have ramped up substantially under the Tsarina.
>>82115346Probably pike and shot with a lot of supplemental cavalry and mercenaries.
>>82115493>>82115444hell even if they weren't, a million angry farmers can still pose a tactical issue to the most advanced mid 1800's rising empire
>>82115521>>82115380>>82115374>>82115369It sounds like Masovii is going to have a real bad time the minute the Gatling gun is invented.
>>82115485Plus it's basically lapsaria only until someone discovers some alternative fuel source or does another bargain.
>>82115485Exactly. It's great that you have this incredible design for a new Ironclad ship, or an entirely new style of firearm.Now good luck ramping up production enough for it to make a difference for the military.
>>82115513Supression would be ramped up, but colonization and anexation were already complete
>>82115537there's already black salt, which the Masovii export, it's used as a fuel and oil has only started to compete with it in Lapsaria
>>82115473What led to creating such form of military organization? Big wars in the previous centuries?>>82115493Do they have special units as countermeasure to this?
>>82115513I like to think it began 10-15 years before the end of the last Tsar's reign, and intensified during tthe interregnum/while the Bishop reigned for the Child Tsarina.
>>82115530You don't need a million of them. A small, dedicated and skilled band of insurgents can wreck havoc on an occupying force if they utilise guerilla tactics. And when you consider the supernatural abilities some of them have, you can start to understand why the Lapsarians are having such a hard time bringing the region fully to heel.
>>82115561>Do they have special units as countermeasure to this?nope, not really. It's an early industrial military, it's not quick to adapt
>>82115561the strategy for monsters is usually shoot it until it stops eating peopleLapsarian moral is really suffering, they've been fighting a war of attrition against an insurgent force for nearly a generation.
>>82115561>Do they have special units as countermeasure to this?I think it's too recent a development for them to have well estabilishedspecialized units, but there are certainly innovations the Military is stratting to integrate into their ranks now.> What led to creating such form of military organization? Big wars in the previous centuries?Good question. I think there hasn't been much discussion regarding international relations in the past. Hell, we haven't even fully mapped out international relation in the present
>>82115561Nothing beyond burning villages and executing Durite farmers in reprisal attacks. Which, in turn, drives more Durites towards the Rebels and their more extreme methods.
>>82115598>innovations the Military is stratting to integrate into their ranks nowLike the Armored Cars? There was some discussion about that last few threads
>>82115598as far as I'm aware it was the previous Tsar's paranoia and imperial ambitions.
>>82115615I remember that being tha case for the Navy, and that Our Lady in Grey was a model warship meant to be a really ambitious military project, but not much about the other branch(es?) of the army
>>82115613I think that Armored Cars should be very rare and only something elite units or units in key areas are being given. Modernized cavalry should be the norm, even if everyone is starting to realize motorization is the future.
>>82115598>I think there hasn't been much discussion regarding international relations in the past.The wording of the Masovii Dignitary suggests that the Masovii Commonwealth might have be a historic political/military rival (perhaps necessitating an arms race, and a few wars in the past).
>>82115613I think the set technology level is mid 1800's for Lapsaria, most of the other nations are still in the late 18th century so no real armoured cars yet
>>82115645We're leaning more towards late 1800's really as the cut off point. Things like airships and ironclads are pushing things away from mid-1800's and towards late-1800's.
>>82115634The entire air-force deserted and likely has scared the Lapsarians from building another in any serious capacity, and while the army is being modernized Lapsaria is struggling to keep up with its support structure.Ironically no one has said anything of a navy, which is likely divided between River Guards and a Blue-Water core.
>>82115596>they've been fighting a war of attrition against an insurgent force for nearly a generation>it's not quick to adapt?>>82115608Durites lands are legit part of country or this is just borderlands with military administration on it? Do they use foreign mercanaries or troops of non titular nationality there to minimize Lapsarians casualities?>>82115598>Good questionYeah, I just realized that they have army just because it's just some rule of setting, which says "This is big empire, they must have big army".
>>82115673The River Guards and their monitor class ships probably have a good relationship with the regular army. The doctrine of this period of real life strongly emphasized the use of river monitors to bombard the shit out of enemy positions.
did a chad anyway
>>82115667Air Ships and Ironclads are heavily incentivized, as they enable safety in the Vast and over the oceans. There hasn't even been a serious increase of 'horseless carriages' much less of proper cars.Oh god Makno is gonna be a Kossoki.
>>82115638>Armored Cars should be very rare and only something elite units or units in key areas are being givenOh yes, very experimental, very early stuff. But still, some technological advancments making their way into the Military>>82115645> so no real armoured cars yetI agree with nothing well developed nor widespread, but as >>82115667 said, we already have airships and large Steamboats, I think basic armored cars are within the realms of possibility if it's still something contained to elite units.>>82115673So, airforce pretty much defunct, the only major air players would be the Sky Pirates and the Aerialists.We really havn't talked much about tthe Navy though, huh?
>>82115674they've not been fighting a war of attrition fo ra generation. There has been some annoying resistence for a generation, but the real war of attrition only started with the supression of Durite religion after the bargain.
>>82115701>So, airforce pretty much defunct, the only major air players would be the Sky Pirates and the Aerialists.And the distant guns of Masovii, but no one has gotten into them. Probably a crown unit like their cavalry.
>>82115667well the ironclad was apparently the most modern ship of the fleet and an early result of the boon, but even that is an 1860's design >>82115674They haven't adapted to the supernatural threats as they're recent and fairly far between, though make up a not insubstantial part of the insurgent victories
>>82115674>Durites lands are legit part of country or this is just borderlands with military administration on it?From what I think we've established so far, the lands of the Durites have been fully annexed and are now considered part of Lapsaria. I don't think we've decided where they were located geographically yet.>Do they use foreign mercanaries or troops of non titular nationality there to minimize Lapsarians casualities?The way it comes across is that other nations are deeply alarmed by the sudden advances Lapsaria is making, and really don't want much to do with them: they probably won't be providing mercenaries. Lapsaria, meanwhile, has a fucking massive army and some potent new tech to deploy (though they are beginning to run into supply/logistics issues).
>>82115701the hard cutoff for timeline even the most generous was still 1900, and armoured cars really didn't see much development until after that
>>82114809I fucking love the Monolith
>>82115739Gotta agree with Kossoki anon here, I think armoured cars are pushing it. We already have a lot of interesting tech like ironclads and airships, but we're at risk of taking it too far.
>>82115720Lapsaria makes use of Kossoki irregulars to provide some assistance in the conflict, but there's only so much they can do, and they are mainly light cavalry skirmishers. the most they really do is kill a few insurgents and fall back if things get too hot. Better light cavalry than anything Lapsaria fields but without an army of infantry they dontt make any lasting gains.
Would armored trains be acceptable then?
>>82115720>other nations are deeply alarmed by the sudden advances Lapsaria is makingHow? Is there any coalition against Lapsaria or in sake of defence?
>>82115789>>82115789look at the compass maybe? Masovii is outfitting the durites, ,Othestein offers mercinaries. Other stuff happens that we don't know about, not everything is defined nor should it be.
>>82115789The Masovii Commonwealth is actively supplying/supporting the Durite Insurgents (but probably not the rebels, those guys are weird), though they're concerned about being drawn into a full-blown conflict. I'm not sure what's been established yet about the other nations, but I'm sure the anons working on those can chime in there.
>>82115789Not really. Masovii and Lapsaria are still in an uneasy but tenable peace, the Gilded States are a human vegetable in terms of actual diplomacy and a black-hold if anybody invaded.The Inbetween nations are too small to be of any serious threat and everyone else is unconnected as of this moment.
>>82115561>Big warsThere was the Ververian campaign.
>>82115787seems like trains are a relatively recent development, and are falling behind the times to get the tracks they need laid. hampered mostly by a three way corporate conflict between rail tycoons and the established naval traders and up and coming airship transport.It's unlikely unless the transport monopolies resolve their issues
>>82115841Seems like something the Tsarina is going to need to resolve personally. Fat Larry, Evil Curly and Union-Breaker Moe could sink the Lady in Grey a second time with their undercutting.
Airship is complex machinary which require educated operators and capable of carring limited arsenal of weapon or it's just flying fortress, which can fly because of some "process" inside its engine and doesn't really need sophistecated knoledge to operate and maintain?>>82115837>Ververian campaignWas it crucial for Lapsarian military or army was quite well organized before this campaign?
>>82115880unfortunately the conflict between them has mostly been kept to sabotage and attempting to fuck with each other's finances, it's been heating up to more brazen attacks on each other, but the Tsarina is being kept in the dark about it thus far
>>82115895>Was it crucial for Lapsarian military or army was quite well organized before this campaign?yea
>>82115923Cool. What was Lapsarian military before it?
>>82115821Definitely supplying insurgents over rebels - Masovii are stonefolk, the fish people are a big turnoff
>>82115895>>82115837the most we really know about it is the army was modernized for it, though I don't think we have a timeline on when it occurred, it had to have been fairly recent as it involved the Slab knights, which as far as I'm aware were post Bargain.>>82115942presumably average for a relatively small 18th century empire
>>82115918False flags sure. Brazen attacks? Not really. I feel like this is something that has happened befoe, If for no other reason than 'can't be confronted' is a diplomatic norm. No doubt the Lapsarians threw cash and mercenaries whenever a member of the commonwealth has a succession crisis.
Mentlegen I present you my badly drawn masterpiece:The jesentorfian Knight, relic of better and happier days.Too tired to fill him out so I invite you give him some flavor text suggestions.
You people are posting way too fast, I just can't keep up. Anyway, since I typed the whole thing for the last thread, might as well go :I actually took this name yesterday just to give this idea, but looks like the hivemind is real and the void is already starting to fill before I had a chance to do it. I mostly want to propose a set of supernatural materials that roughly follow the compass. We currently have five supernatural ressources in this nascent setting :>The sacred oil, FISH-aligned, Strengthens body and mind, but pulls the user towards FISH. Is primarly used as fuel.Oil is already largely accepted as the essence of FISH. >The Coral. Soothing, passive drug born of FISH and STONE. It has no practical use outside of its psychoactive properties. Inert, calming, a refuge for the tortured mind. I propose : Coral is essence of FAITH. >The Black salt. (I will assume all supernatural salt is black salt, and that regular salt is just salt) It is basically coal but worse. "Salt to pass time", implies it is some sort of drug. The industrial smog from factories is ALSO crack. This explains nicely why the lapsarians were so eager to switch to oil.I would also argue that Salt should absolutely be at the meeting point of Fish and Stone. Flammable, extracted through hardship, motor for the first wave of industrialization. I propose : Black Salt is essence of PAIN.>Steel, proposed by some anon as Stone purified through pain. And while I think it is perfect from a spiritual point of view, I also don't think that steel should be any different from any metal or carved stone in that regard. Steel is not supernatural in this setting (yet), and should not be associated with Oil, Salt and Coral. I propose : Steel is not a supernatural ressource. cont.
>>82115955they're supplying who is useful which is more commonly rebels due to numbers and zeal, but they are>concerned about increasingly radical tacticsaka they are concerned about fish mutations.
>>82115895I believe the most advanced airships were still just relatively lightly armed with a few cannons on a flying wooden frame, with what looked to be a screw style propeller hooded up to a steam engine.
>>82115978>presumably average for a relatively small 18th century empireAre we going with the Lapsarians being small-to-middling in size prior to the last Tsar and the Bargain? It might be because I keep picturing them as akin to Imperial Russia, but I've been imagining them as a pretty large country even before then. Previously it might have been a more agrarian state, though: the Bargain has helped spur a massive surge of industrialisation.
>>82116010>We currently have five supernatural ressources in this nascent setting :well if there is any indictment of this setting, there it is. Shameful.
>>82116014they're more like russia before it got all it's territory. The Durites outnumber them pretty heavily.
>>82115978>small 18th century empireLike European Empire, or may be Indian or East Asian Empire?>>82115989He must have a really cheap armor or it's just waste of money, which could be spent on equipment and training for a whole platoon of peasants to stand against Lapsarian army.>>82116012>steam engineMay be oil engine?
>>82116034>The Durites outnumber them pretty heavily.Unlikely. Even with the massive land they had, their lifestyle and technolgical sophistication would ahve hampered their population growth significantly when compared to pre-industrial Lapsaria
>>82116014>>82116034I thought of them as a medium-size polity with a growing population and growing cities facing a wide steppe with hard logistics. Which is hy its hard to control.
>>82116010>The Dust of Progress (really could use a shorter nickname). Comes form breaking slabs, essential for industry STONE-aligned, and that's about it. I think it should be involved in the creation of slab-knights, thematically. It fits with their stone mutations, and their new condition definitely implies some supernatural bullshit happened at some point. Going from there, we have a ressource that strengthens body and mind, but brings STONE-aligned mutations with it. I propose : the Dust of Progress is the essence of STONE. We should also define how Dust is used for industry. Another combustible for a tree-way war between Oil, Dust and Salt industrials ? Something else ? Generally speaking : Essences from FISH/STONE makes you more powerful at the price of your humanity, while FAITH/PAIN ones are mind-breaking bullshit.
>>82116057>He must have a really cheap armor or it's just waste of money, which could be spent on equipment and training for a whole platoon of peasants to stand against Lapsarian army.who do you think pays for that armour? Some kind of centralized state? In Jansentorf? No such thing. No my dude, it's the knight. He pays for his army.
>>82116077>Essences from FISH/STONE makes you more powerful at the price of your humanity, while FAITH/PAIN ones are mind-breaking bullshitAt this point, I will submit to the terrible gods of symmetry. They have worn me down
>>82116057That's the point, knights are kind of a remnant, they usually are the butt of the jasentorf backward and superstitious jokes, and in general, he has his own fief, his own little levy, and don't you dare call him in anyway obsolete, because the knight of jasentorf aren't going down easy, Plus there's a lot of them.
>>82116097Like a fine jeweler polishing a rock into a clear cut symmetric diamond, truly, a symmetric tale.
>>82116077Faith Secures, Pain Transforms. Personally I prefer a situation where you don't even necessarily loose your humanity by going fish and stone, it's just society doesn't typically support becoming a fish/rock.And I also support the idea that you COULD hypothetically balance fish and stone. It's just that you'd be almost universally reviled or end up like the walker. Salt Preserved him, Water shall Bring Him Home.
>>82115955Remember that they’re “technically but technically not” supporting the Durites by way of having the Sligaffi carry out the transactions. The more in-charge Masovii don’t even see them face to face>>82116011>concerned about increasingly radical tactics>aka they are concerned about fish mutations.I agree with this, and also in the case of theoretical game being played in the session, I like having this as a way to tryto leverage the Masovii off of supporting the Durites if the PC’s want to try that
>>82116062>>82116058the way I see it, their imperial endeavours are thus far fairly minor, with a few large cities. it's only in the last 4 or so decades they've been building up a substantial military. With the attrition going on in the Durite campaign and the morale issues, growth is likely to be slowed down fairly heavily.
>>82116010Imo Salt sorta seems a lot more FAITH than PAIN given the chartEspecially because it’s linked to the religiously important Salt Pans in Masovii
>>82116198Salt is a natural occurrence, even Black Salt. It's primordial, unlike Dust which is literally breaking holy rocks.
Can we not give the resources positions on the compass? I don't even care about symmetry, but now we're trying to assign motivations and alignments to fucking rocks.
Would anons like to allow me make military organization diagram like pic-related from warmachine. Won't it be overexplanation?>>82116103Even the smallest regular army is enormous compared to army of knights raised by feudal king.
>>82116221From the original axis definitions>FAITH>Preserving, Primordial, Sought.
>>82116238So long as you keep it in WIP. This is very much a thing in progress.>>82116250Eyup. Doesn't get more preserving than salt.
>>82116238The knights could raise militias themselves, plus jasentorf isn't near centralized enough to be raised by anything else other than the council.Why are we even having this discussion?
>>82116238Idk i’m leaning towards that being a bit overkill on the level of specificity
>>82116262Naming of officers and units from Lapsarian infantry should have some stylization or be just regular english terms from XIX century?>>82116282>Why are we even having this discussion?Knights disappeared because they are so costly, compare to their effectiveness. I believe the similar process must happen in Jastorf.
>>82116323>Naming of officers and units from Lapsarian infantry should have some stylization or be just regular english terms from XIX century?The Army of Lapsaria is very much the first of its kind and should not be necessarily styled after any one things. Keep it organic.>I believe the similar process must happen in Jastorf.Potentially on the large scale, but Jasentorf is such a backwards gongshow the Old Nobility will have their position held with a death grip. Even while Pike-and-Shot has moved to become the main-stream style for them.
>>82116323Well, they have knights, jasentorf is a backwater, the knightly class has managed to remain. And there's plenty of them, they can and use guns and everything, but keep their mighty swords and trusty plate at hand. They are their own whole military class with charters about XY and Z.
>>82115989I refined this dude a bit.
>>82116363Imagine being a member of the professional Lapsarian Army and getting whacked by a dude in full plate going >Heh, nothing personel Lappi
>>82116323“Must happen” is a big step away from “Has Happened”I don’t know if they would have managed to achieve any substantial level of reform, especially without the capacities brought on by the Bargain.
>>82116363Tight. Can I add it to the docs?
>>82116323>Knights disappeared because they are so costly, compare to their effectiveness. I believe the similar process must happen in Jastorf.fuck this shit, "this gotta happen for maximum efficiency" can fuck right off.>but it's the case in reality!I don't think it is but if it is, then it can stay there. Fun shit is important.>>82116397lmao, obvs
>>82116414Added it to the wrong spot, but someone fixed it
>>82116414I mean. In this reality there are man-stones and fish-gods hanging out in the back. We can't really trust it to act like our own timeline.As for the knights, I think they might make use of similar elements to maintain relevance. Perhaps they use salts to reinforce their armour in forging. It isn't as strong as Lapsarian Pain-Steel, but their irons have held up as the gunpowder era rolled into full completion. Along with some very hardy breeds of horse, this allowed them to maintain a position as both heavy and light cavalry elites in the pike/shot/cannon style.We've also got the dichotomy of hard/soft damage that will likely play a further roll in local warfare. Potentially making the weapons of a knight pistols, lance and mace exclusively.
>>82116470or maybe they're just sick ass knights who shoot at you and don't take no shit
>>82116414I think the knights make sense as the setting hasnt fully transitioned to industrial warfare yet. With >>82116470 's suggestions of enhanced armour, maybe they are able to stay rtelevant aginst most modern threats, but the rapidly evolving industry might bring the seeds of change.
>>82116505Lapisian Steel (cannonballs) might be enough to melt Jasentorfer knights.
>>82116528Fair, though at this point Lapsarian Steel might be strong enough to melt through anything
It should be remembered that in real life the classical heavy cavalry knights never disappeared, they simply evolved into different types of light cavalry as pikes and later bayonets proved an effective counter to heavy armor and the emphasis shifted towards maximum mobility.And, since this is a partially fantasy setting, we can have things that real life did not. Like much lighter metals for much lighter armor, giving heavy cavalry as a concept greater longevity. Even so, the transition to lancers, sabers, and dragoons should already be in progress.
>>82116571It is. Likely Masovii might have a more modern Cavalry than the Lapsarians who are chugging along. But Jasentorf strikes me as a place that's going to hold onto their elites until Lapsarian boots kick the door in and blow the whole rotten structure apart.
>>82116571Kossoki generally fight as light skirmishers, they're used as irregulars by the Lapsarians, they fight with sabres and pistols mostly, but also use rifles, whether from horseback or as a dragoon might is indeterminate. The Lapsarians also maintain a regular cavalry force that includes a cavalry guard regiment trained by Kossoki that have left their culture The Kossoki are generally the best light cavalry around, with only some Masovii coming close.
>>82116363Ah, thank you.>Lapsarians fear him>Charges into full volley fire>Refuses to become obsolete.>Has decapitated man and monster alike with his sword.>Modernizers fear him.
>>82116734>Can be heard coming from a mile away, refuses oil as it is Lapsarian devilry.
>>82116754>has never seen light cavalry before >doesn't believe they exist>why is my horse panting so hard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S93lvQ4Ukg8>sounds the trumpet>charges directly into your artillery, heedless of the canister shot ringing against his armor>cuts down your artillerymen>refuses to elaborate further>disengages to reform for another charge
>>82116784>doesn't have room for all his Kossoki trophies at his manor house>can't see well through his visor, still every shot a kill by sheer chance>tired of winning all the time
>>82116807>hit every shot>wow these Kossoki guys are easy to fight they dont even face the right direction>how come they keep screaming in yothestinian?
>>82116831Okay that one got me.
It's striking how this setting works for both a standard TTRPG and a wargame.
>>82116890>Lapsarian New Army>Lapsarian Chosen of the King>Lapsarian Renegades>Lapsarian Air-Pirates>Rogues of the Sire>The Venitii Menace>Kossoki Free-Army>Durite Rebels>Durite Insurgents
so should we start a Jansentorf 5x5 compass? We've also got four or five things
>>82116890When do we start 3D printing models?
>>82116983getting beyond the wojak stage comes first I think
>>82116983Feels like we need to cover the 'big three' in terms of content and factions before we start that. In this case Masovii and Jasentorf.Both are actually ripe for armies as Masovii is diverse and not fully united while Jasentorf is chewing on itself way harder than Lapsaria.
>>82117011that's not a desirable thing
>>82116924>Chosen of the KingShouldn't it be Chosen of the Tsar?
>>82117065I think he means King as in the Fisher King
>>82117065No I certainly didn't.
>>82117069Ah, that should maybe be a bit more clear then.
>>82116323And pike and shot stopped being effective, yet there stands Yothenstein.
>>82117227Josentorf is literally immune to change and progress. The mountains like to chill, the mainland is too busy fighting each other to do anything else. And the Alerians are still seething at the lapsarians.
>>82113708>Of a different featherI'm not sure any associated peoples deserve a compass spot, but i like the idea of an ethnicity that still remembers gods of wind (insert whatever divine epithets or people names you wish to fit your idea of the flavor) as a sort of neutral region to help/hinder any travellers making pilgrimage to The Monolith, with a sort of mix between Inca/Cossack/Pueblo flavoring. Especially liking the idea that they live in cliffs and vertical canyons, just as likely to use gliding rigs as rope bridges to get from one place to another.Sample quotes:>Eagles roost in eyries>Never lasts only as long as erosion takes>Winds calm, and Land slides, but we endureKeep in mind, I'm not trying to introduce active wind-lords, or even wind-lords being birthed (if new gods can even be born in this cosmology), just a rarely-seen marginal people deep in the heartlands of the Steppes who struggle to remember the sky-gods, and currently live in symbiosis with the Stone that killed them.
>>821170113D printed wojak army.Wojak does mean soldier after all
>>82117403Yeah, better not to worry too much about Josentorf, tis a silly place.
>>82117412I was going to make something about Goguryeo, make them an acient land that accepts all gods and faith.So they still worship the dead fod of air. And the King Fisher and the three. And the Monolith. And their God-King. And Salt. And coral. And a bunch of made up gods someone made up.
>>82117412Forgot to add. While I want to stick to the Inca/Peublo/Cossack (when outside the Eyries, anyway. Sometimes you can't help needing to travel overland) inspiration, for me it helps to imagine the city design as Venice, but in a slot canyon with gliders as opposed to a swamp with gondolas. Though, in keeping with their status as a remnant/hidden people, it'd make more sense both from a watsonian and doylist perspective to be a bunch of smaller canyons/eyries with a shared history and identity, than one Great Canyon-sized city state. Again, the intended goal is for them and their knowledge of the Sky to be forgotten by almost everyone who isn't them.
>>82117412the differences between the Timajor and the rest of the Kossoki are similar to the differences between the Zaporozhian cossacks and the don cossacks, or in this case the Roma. while they are associated, in this case in their generally libertarian or anarchistic world view, they do hold significant differences in cultural practices
>>82117515Fuck, that works as well. Mind hitting me with the etymology of the name Goguryeo?Sorry, I was typing up my self-reply, so I didn't notice this at first. I think it's really cool, tho I think it'd be nice for them to have a good memory of the sea, but no active Fishmongers, save for the odd riverfolk. Imo, if you were to hike in a straight line from the Monolith to the coast, you'd encounter Clifffolki about 1/3 of the way out. I don't know what would be best though, whether for them to exist in a ring roughly the same distance from the monolith, to be 1/3 the way to the Lapsarian coast, or (and this one's for bonus points) in the Mountainlands opposite the monolith from Lapsaria
>>82117638Goguryeo is Korean, specifically an old Korean kingdom that reached a ways into Manchuria.
>>82117597Thanks, Kossoki anon. Maybe I should lean harder on the First Nations resonance instead of the Slavic. Does anyone have a consensus on Timajori lore? I'll be (ctrl+f)-ing while i wait on an answer, see if I haven't just spitballed a redundant minor polity.(Phoneposting is a bitch, but what can i do when my rig is fucked)
>>82117647Really? I was going to make them sumerian.Time to find other reference pictures.
>>82117681> Mixed Ethnic group that has Kossoki and Lapsarian roots, potentially more as the Timajor river has long been rife with traffic> Some of the last Old Worshipers in the pre-organization sense> Do some eel handling with the amphibious eels that live in the Timajor> Generally practical, with a boating and horse-riding culture> Probably on the decline like most minorities in the aftermath of the Bargain>>82117761Oh yea, very different I was the one who proposed them.
>>82117681Timajor is one of the two major (he) rivers of Lapsaria, the other being the Capri.The original capital was built in a place where the two met/were close to one another, than later the capital was moved to a new, industrial city that was closer ro the capri bay, probably a brand new one named after tsar +grad. Than the rebellion and the bargain happened, and the capital returned to the old one.At least it was what I remember, or someone suggested so ething similar and it just got stuck in my mind.
>>82117761Well, if anyone wants to try their hands on creating a sumerian inspired nation, I was going to use this very fancy hat for the female emissary.
>>82117647>>82117681>>82117761>>82117774Thank you, you beautiful bastards. I would like to add something for the Eyrie-dwellers:Their primary goal is to remember the Sky. Fish and Stone citizens are not second class, but their religions are. If someone did push for them to be compass'd, neutral on the Fish/Stone, and neutral, leaning Faith, on the Faith/Pain. They aren't averse to change, merely forgetting. With the paperwork out of the way, I'd like to add that they have some exclaves, with different subgroups venerating different birds, with a pref for raptors/carrion birds. Messengers between Roosts would be known as Vultures, given how dependent they are upon hosts, while the odd forest-dwelling exclave might go by Owls or Ravens, depending on their zeitgest. The farther inland or coastward they go, the more subdued, however. For example, a Corvid visiting the Red Titans (who knows why she's there? No-one but her, if she can help it) might only bear a feather for a pendant, that never seems to decay....)
>>82117681>>82117774I was thinking of lore for them in the shower actually. and they're not genetically related to the Kossoki, just culturally influenced by them.I'll do a big ol idea dump in a second >>82117799I believe there's also the Nemijski river and Venit river. The Venit is populated by a group of ill mannered river people, vaguely inspired by venetians I believe and I take that to mean there's also a fairly important city along the Venit.as far as I'm aware the Nemijski doesn't have a culture living on it or a people of it's own, though it served as a natural barrier between Lapsarian and Durite territory historically.
>>82118023The Venitii don't have a singular city, they have multiple, small towns and villages in the banks of the Venit river.The Venit is very deep, and has a habit of randomly flooding, so they build everythinf on stilts, and theyr main form of transportation is the gondola.I just made it up right now, I wanted to not make them just venetians, to separate a bit more from the Alerians
>>82118065Of course, I'll add the Old-Capital was built with such flooding in mind as it's one of the few 'safe' settlments on the Venit. Technically only being connected by the cities waterways.In reality not all Venits are river-men and raiders, but the only context most outsiders will interact with them is in those conditions. Or in the navy.The Venits were responsible for the first Lapsarian navy, and remain an active part of both the River Guards and the Ocean going navy where their expertise is sought after.
>>82118116I think you are confusing the Venit with the Timajor.Although the Venitii being natural born sailor is good, although it might be a pain making them wear uniform with the masks.Actually, maybe only the ferryman ahould wear masks. They also could double as the Venitii priests, that's why they might just decide to drown their passagers as a sacrifice.
>>82118178The Venit always struck me as a practical people. Like the masks are deceptively easy to wear, and technically anyone can perform rites (read, drown things), even if it is expected most of seniors.There was also a time when they were more sociable with the rest of Lapsaria, although those days ended long ago and the current status quo is masked.
>>82118246Works for me.
A few ideas for the Timajor>ethnically unique from Lapsarians and other groups in the area>notable for having blond hair and blue eyes, compared to the typically darker hair of the Lapsarians, and Kossoki who are themselves a mix of the Lapsarians and Durites.>used to be self governing, and organized themselves as a series of small settlements along the river, usually a few villages and a simple fort from which the local Timajor warlord ruled over his towns. With all the Timajor lords answering to one leader, who had the largest fort on an island in the Timajor. >Had an agrarian way of life>the warlords would demand a toll from those passing through their territory>when they first encountered the Kossoki it was no different>the Kossoki managed to fairly quickly route the Timajor however as their infantry couldn't do much to counter the Kossoki skirmishing tactics, but when the Kossoki pursued them back to their forts they had no way of defeating them>the tactic became chase the Timajor off and move through while they're regrouping in the fort>the Timajor caught on fairly quick and trained up cavalry of their own and used the Kossoki tactics against them>they didn't have the experience yet but they managed a few victories, still couldn't get the Kossoki to pay the toll however.>eventually the Tiamajor gave up on the toll and the fighting stopped>they gained a respect for one another that endures to this day, each as the enemy too tenacious to accept a defeat.>soon Timajor farmers rode out to meet the Kossoki, and the Timajor picked up some of their herding techniques. >Timajor Farmers became partially nomadic, riding their animals along the steppes while the rest stayed in their villages and raised crops.>The way of life couldn't last, the days of the Freeforts of Timajor were numbered when the army of Lapsaria flew their flag over the Venit river.
>>82118268Perhaps the Timajor are descended from the Guths? The Olm folk suggested earlier in the thread, arriving a long time back.After Guthall's golden age collapsed they jumped onto the Sire and the Timajor river whole-heartedly.
>>82118302Question is, who are the Lapsarians? Are they the natives of the Capri? Foreign invaders that mixes with locals?
>>82118329I feel like they're the predominant coastal culture with a general heritage but some assimilation. Initially restrained to the far south where Kelp farming is easiest and the Seawall was at its height, and they slowly spread inland along the rivers.Barring certain episodes when Jastendorf was at her Golden Age and conquered the lands, and when the Durit Khaganate ran wild all over the world, the locals were always very irrepressable.After the final collapse of their neighbors, both Masovii and Lapsaria have grown. Though Lapsaria was always more agressive and Masovii was quick to bargain.
>>82118268>The Lapsarians came to the Timajor fresh on their victory, and with the finest Venitii cannons in tow>The Timajor fought valiantly, though their wooden walls were no match for Venitii guns>over the course of many months, fort after fort was sieged and fell>over the course of the campaign the Timajor fought like wild animals for their freedom, their marksmen most of all distinguished themselves as incredibly skilled>a saying still spoken goes "a Timajor in a fort could shoot the hat off a bishop before he was two steps from the capital">The walls of the final fort fell with the thunder of Venitii guns and with that the last free city was conquered by Tsar Pietr The Unifier, our Tsarina's great grandfather >>82118329I was thinking local city state that went on to conquer all of it's neighbours ala alexander the great's macedonia
>>82118377>>82118268>>82118178I was thinking the Venitii were also the most skilled cannon smiths. Prior to Lapsarian unification they were Lapsaria's primary maritime rival
>>82118116>>82118416meant to grab this anon
>>82118416Replace cannon with ballistas and scorpions.They really like crossbows.
>>82118023Ironically, I was typing up my prompt for the Cliffolki (working name, till we figure out what the fuck they best resemble, I'll laugh my dick off if that becomes their actual name) while sitting on the floor next to the shower
>>82118268>>82118377The Timajor Kossoki are descended from the nomadic farmers and the Timajor warriors that wouldn't accept Lapsarian rule. those that stayed have been assimilated into Lapsarian society, though soldiers from the region still tend to be better marksmen than Lapsarian average.
I am not sure how to involve the thread in map making. The only thing I can think of is once I have a general map of biomes and the like the thread will help fill things in. In the era we are going for we should expect there to be somewhere in the realm of 60~70 countries world wide, with the number being that low because of big powers controlling vast swaths of territory. Lapsaria would be one such power.
>>82118533well geography wise I think best we can do to help is give cardinal directions for countries to be and include vague geographical features like the Nemijski being a natural border between Lapsaria and Durite territory
>>82118533As long as there are some small and medium nations to fill in it's fine with me.Could there be a big inland sea somewhere far away from Lapsaria?
>>82118571No. Water inside the Vast is 'See Abandoned By Fish' and rare in any sense outside of rivers and lakes. It's why the core of the Vast is almost impenetrable to non-Nomadic cultures.In the same thread Islands are rare.>>82118533I've already put down a few of the smaller nations, but it's a group job.
Are there many forests in the vast, or does everyone rely on yak shit as a fuel for fires?
>>82118646Depends on the geography. We pretty strongly determined that large parts of the Vast's interior are massive deserts I believe.
>>82118626Oh well, there goes the idea on why no one believes that Goguryeo has acess to a sea.Guess I will just be boring and make them a peninsula far away, and Lapsarians are just retarted that think the coast is world is small.
>>82118663Deserts can have scattered forest areas and oasis. It all depends on the type of desert.
>>82118533I don't think we need to go for a world map right away. Maybe just focus on lapsaria and immediate neighbors, as to allow us to focus on getting ideas out.
>>82118796Seconding this, we don’t need a full world, unless the world is just smaller desu>>82118533I’d also say you can be a bit vague on distances. For places that are far away (i.e. the Sunset Isles) you don’t need a continuous map - you could have them as an insert.
>>82119718The problem is that this is the time period when the world starts to shrink. Airships, trains and gunboats have that effect.Not that we need the full world, but it does mean we need to keep the 'whole world' in mind. Or rather, the whole world as far as Lapsaria is concerned.
>>82119766This mean the setting is ripe for a bunch of explorer going off into the unknown, shooting rare animals and looting everything that isn't nailed down in name of science.
>>82118796I agree, I think we risk writing ourselves into a corner and bloating things if we expand to much outside Lapsaria in too much detail.Do we have much on the dredging pit or the seawall? Is the latter a dyke?Also, I want to expand more on the union agitator and the union in general. My though is that you'd have a mix of genuine agitators and controlled opposition as undercover police. I think that a common phenomenon in the late russian empire, since this takes a lot of inspiration from that.I suggest the Masovii has some aspect that gives the Lapsarians a better reason to fear upsetting them. My suggestion would be coal. Needed for steel, and a potentially tie in for the emergent class of "rail road tycoons" I read about somewhere in the doc
>>82119873Coal is black salt.
>>82119873Coal & Black Salt, along with their potential grain exports and that big cavalry horde that gives Lapsarians flashbacks of the Ancient Durit Khagans.
>>82119873>potentially tie in for the emergent class of "rail road tycoons" I read about somewhere in the docThat's the Black Salt you're thinking off. It's a fuel source mostly controlled by the Masovii, which has been mostly disencouraged in Lapsaria, but which is pushed back by the Industrialists (Since Trains moistly run on this stuff due to political conflicts with the Tycoons) and Masovii Diplomats/Plants (Such as the Siglaffi)
>>82119873Seawall is exactly what it says on the tin, a big fuck-off wall. In ancient days, when there was still a presence of Stone in Lapsaria, the walls were raised to keep elements of the deep Ocean, and some parts of the rivers out. These barriers did their job for centuries, but in recent history they deteriorated. Perhaps that is a product of the Fish Rising, perhaps it is the work of the King's Favoured or the Brackish Ones. Now the Seawall is a failed relic. In the cities the walls are guarded, but across much of the coastline they lie abandoned. Lapsaria has made ties with the deep, and though Capri Bay is all-but-lost her dominion over the open waves is without equal now in the mortal world.
>>82119893I like to think that the ancient durites didn't even properly conquer shit, they just roamed around, set everything on fire for a few years and than fucked off.And they were still the terror of the steppe, and steppe adjacent territories.
>>82118533I think we can start small-ish. Maybe ~10 nations, focusing mostly on developing lapsarias internal geography. I have some rough ideas for geographical features, and could make a rough sketch to see people's opinions, before you dive into anything fancy and time consuming.
>>82119935>What? Rape you!? Why would I do that?!>I'm just here to loot and burn! >OH STONE I'M GONNA LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
>>82119938That feels like a fair plan, so long as the maps have that old styled abstract quality to them. We've already got a few smaller nations beside the big three. And we can imagine the independent cousins of some of the people in Lapsaria.
>>82119873I don’t think the seawall can be lesbian. Unless???
>>82119901does steel use black salt in lieu of coal?
>>82119974I think it uses Slab Dust
Steel is made through sacrilege. See >The Stone Shaper
>>82119974I feel industrially coal is used in several processes but Black Salt is the new hotness.Mostly because we haven't had a monster fog incident in the capital yet, but that's neither here nor there.
>>82119992I mean black salt is like coal but the smoke is also meth
>>82119985>>82119986>>82119974In the Docs it's currently stated that "Stoneshapers work (dust) into steel, gunpowder, and other more esoteric material".It's still up for change, but considering the usage of Black Salt is meant to be limited as to drive a political and economical conflict bewteen the Tycoons and the Industrialists (Backed by the Masovii), I think it's best to leave the black salt mostly confined to a Fuel Source, possibly with other possible effects
>>82120006Oh super meth. Burns way longer and hotter, fumes make the workers push harder.In our reality coal barons would happily sacrifice a load of workers for a rich vein. Just imagine what the Tycoon of all people is willing to trade for the meth-salts.
>>82120023>Just imagine what the Tycoon of all people is willing to trade for the meth-salts.interestingly, the Tycoon is more interested in keeping his(their) monopoly on oil, since they are the main extractors and refiners. So they activelly supress the usage of Black Salt to keep the industry tied down to them, as it could present itself to be a threat to their industrial dominance
>>82120036Isn't this just the Taliban supressing meth because it gets in the way of Opium export?
>>82120043Yes, but if Meth and Opium are also two valid fuel sources for industry
>>82119992Monster fog is coming. If we ever get a "scenario suggestions" list, the 'mystery of the midnight monsters' would be one example scenario.
>>82120051>Takes a puff of the Corals>"Fascinating"
>>82120012>I think it's best to leave the black salt mostly confined to a Fuel Source, possibly with other possible effectsI think that makes sense. I'll admit I haven't read up as much on stone as I should. What does the dredge pit do?
>>82120097Pulls things out of the deep. At the ocean floor actually. Big chunks of it.Wait...Why are we doing that?
>>82120097>What does the dredge pit do?Not much has been discussed of it, actually, so it's pretty much free real estate. Though I would recommend diving deep into what people have discussed in the Docs regarding the resources to decide if we want this to be something normal, an already estabilished resource, something new, or if it's even related to a resource at all.
I kind of assumed the dredging pit would dig up artifacts and rare metals "coincidentally" while their official business is stuff like clay.
>>82111576So, new thread?
>>82120119>Wait...>Why are we doing that?It doesn't fit well with the Pit Boss descriotion, but here's a thought:Lapsarian soil is not very useful for growing on it's own. so they dredge up nutrient-rich ocean mud.Not very sexy, so I'm open to other ideas.
>>82120156I like this. In theory they're your everyday miners (maybe Taking from >>82120119 deep sea miners), but In practice they also deal in artifacts
>>82120183I mean, the Owner does know about all the nonsense going on, but he is definitely as pragmatic and grounded as he is a lard-ass and pro-child-labour.
>>82120200Maybe the reason he dislikes the bargain is because Something in the ocean has been way more active since, and it's interfering with his business. It began as a worker missing every couple of months. Then every couple of weeks. Now almost every week someone goes missing and he's starting to get sick of loosing able bodied children
>>82120277It also probably doesn't help his rival is basically rolling in the Oils and getting more yellow-eyed every time he sees him.Of course that's just because he's racist and you don't want to hear what he says about the innovator. Hard Rs all over.
>>82120277No wait, I just reread his entry and he specifically deals with oil, and simply refuses the boon, not necessarily opposes it.Maybe while Whale hunting is the main source of oil, the Pit Owner collects it from the ocean floor? Then the rest can still apply
>>82120277>"OI! GILLY-NIGGERS! YOU KEEP YOUR BLOODY WEBBED HANDS OFF ME BRATS! TRAINING NEW ONES AIN'T CHEAP!">>82120290>Dredger confirmed pro-salt Industrialist
>>82120292No, his end is more storage, and his business was one that existed well before the Bargain. Ironically he's still able to benefit even if he hasn't accepted the terms.Doesn't matter how much oil gets brought in. Without the silos on his land...
>>82120321How would that relate to Dredging Pit? Or to child labor? The storage business doesn't seem like something very many children would be able to work onNot trying to refute your idea, just understand it better
>>82120329While the Dredging pit is a major (and his defining) business, the Pit Owner owns a lot more land. If Oil was always 'his business' I'd imagine his existing properties had a big tie in the storing and processing of oil.
>>82120346Fair enough. But what is the nominal Dredging Pit and what is it for? And why would he refuse the boon?
>>82120360He could easily just be paranoid about a weird drug that is suddenly all the rage. In any given fad, there's always that one guy that says "nope".
>>82120360Grabbing shit from the bottom of the ocean. Lapsaria is largely awful for above ground crops, and the clay, silt, and fertile soot at the bottom is a massive-space investment that has proven to be most beneficial to other industries.His family was likely here and prominent long before the boon. Why should he grovel for it? Especially while his rivals debase themselves?