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File: Lapsaria.png (4.22 MB, 2000x1500)
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This is a crowd sourced endeavor to create a setting and rpg.

What was produced is pic related, the setting of LEVIATHAN, the World of Sacred Oil and Broken Stone. The purpose of this thread is to organize to continue filling out the Lore Document, congregate for map making, and for developing an RPG system for this setting.

The story of the world is emergent, being developed as we discuss and explore the Compass. The Docs provides most in-depth explanations of most items, but the main conflicts of the setting are as follows:
> The Lapsarians have a secret Bargain with the Ocean Gods for Oil: A fuel source, the heart of the recent industrialization, and food-item which provides boons to those who consume it, though at a cost
> The Durite people who are colonized by the Lapsarians are revolting, drawing from both traditional and newfound powers to fight back against their oppressors
> The remnants of old Lapsarian Rebellions, such as the Last Captain and his crew, still haunt the waters where they were defeated, a sacrifice as part of the Bargain
> New powers, like the Industrialists and the Tycoons, fight for dominance in the cities, opposing both each other and other groups (such as the mysterious Hooks) in an ever escalating conflict
> All the while and above all human struggles, the Monolith and the Sea Gods exert their influence, their goals (if any) unknowable

Lore Dump Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RjU2GkiDq5tJ8Ih9A9LxyHhC3cvmQANYG579UDgxuOM/edit?usp=sharing
RPG System: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kV4IkD7O2qFX6C0YYZQ78SBqpcJv07uy72ow-Mcvt3g/edit?usp=sharing


Last thread: >>82256798

Ongoing Discussions:
>Vague nature of human origins
>The Axis of a Suuri compass
>Veverian Racial Demographics

Thread Theme: https://youtu.be/BqJ7bUzyCXA
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>>82279888
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>>82279901
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>>82279798
as the originator of most of the artistic conventions this is about, I personally reject this kind of simple classification. but you do you
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>>82279914
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>>82279918
Agreed. It only really starts counting when you start eating people or turn into a fucking Axolotl.
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>>82279930
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>>82279940


>>82279935
>>82279918
Definitely makes sense. I more was pointing to a trend in the art rather than simpler classification. It could instead simply be Stone influence, those with more of it appear more stonelike. Or it could be chemical with the diets of the lapsarians making them different (if the default is grey like the Rock Eaters). It being chemical implies the Durites will lose it over time as they are culturally assimilated.
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>>82279970
Feels more like a location based thing honestly; IE a Durite family will lose the grey tint if they live inland for several generations. Inversely if a Lapsarian lives long enough in the Vast, eventually they might start turning Grey and kick up all manner of genealogical horror shows.
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>>82279970
I think it's more metatextual that Durites are grey than inner textual. they would also be grey if they hardcore worshipped the king fisher - it's just that we, drawers, associate grey with stone and so we did the durites grey and it's epic. But it doesn't need to be in-world causally connected.
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>>82280020
The question is whether they are grey in actuality. If they are is it a natural skintone or something aquired, as well if it is natural would it be something inheritable for half-durites.

If they aren't and it is merely shorthand in the art for representation then that's quite alright, but if they're actually grey I think it raises some interesting questions with them in relation to Vastians.
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>>82280054
as far as I know they are grey in actuality. They are grey like turks are brown. Just their skin colour.
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>The 23andme has returned, I shall finally prove my 100% Lapsari genetic history
>W-What is this?
>Five... percent... DURITE?
>I STOOD AGHAST AT THE PERVERTED REFLECTION OF MYSELF IN THE MIRROR, HANDS TURNED TO HARD CLAWED APPENDAGES SECRETING A FOUL SMELLING DUSTY SUBSTANCE STAINING THE CARPET. EYES SHRIVELED TO LIZARD-LIKE HUSKS I ATTEMPTED TO SCREAM BUT ALL THAT ESCAPED FROM MY SLUMPED MAW WAS THE HORRIFIC CRY OF MONOG'LEETH. MINE EARS WOULD HAVE BEEN PIERCED HAD THEY NOT FOLDED IN ON THEMSELVES LIKE SOME HORRIFIC TIMAJORIC PASTRY, LEAVING ME DEAFENED WRITHING CONFUSED UPON THE FLOOR
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>>82280054
Their skincolour is just gray.
Just like sunseters are brown, kyougoryo are sandy, lapsarians are white and suuri are beige.
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>>82280111
>at least no yechodic blood
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By the way, I wrote a bunch of shot for Tarca, tried to mix all the ideas into something coherent, while also being 8t's own thing.
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>>82280142
>>82280065
I think it being something akin to stone influence, even slight, may be interesting. If it is just genetic then Durites & Vastians are probably in some way closely related, or it could be Duites are already an ethnic group born out of vastian & coastal peoples intermarriage.

If it is the latter it implies the vastians have a culture beyond eating rocks, which could be interesting.
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>>82280176
I saw that. Nice work!
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>>82280193
I'd just caution you against using the term "Vastian" for the rock eaters - everybody is Vastian in the continental sense, and there are surely many noamdic peoples who are vastian in the more narrow, desert sense. So these guys are rock eaters, not just vastians.

Outside of that, I like that they are largely cultureless troglodytes but have no strong opinion on it
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>>82280176
a lot of it seems p good. It seems also like the Union is comperatively small, which is a breeze of fresh air
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>>82280230
When I came up with the term Vastian I had it, conceptually, as just a term for the various desert dwelling savages. Rock eaters, dust chewers, sand suckers, etc.

I prefer the idea that they are, at least 99% are, cultureless savages living in caves. However there could be a line drawn between the two, especially if we want to start looking at this through an esoteric lens. Union between the savage desert dwellers and a mystic of the coastal cultures. Closeness to one's savage nature is used as a line of mysticism in many traditional practices.
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>>82280360
>When I came up with the term Vastian I had it, conceptually, as just a term for the various desert dwelling savages. Rock eaters, dust chewers, sand suckers, etc.
I assume there's also going to be more normal beduin-like people and pilgrim oases in the vast, right?
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>>82279930
Still looking for more pointers on how to increase the clarity of the character sheet. This is not the print version, which would have to be made slightly smaller to fit printer dimensions.
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>>82280383
If you are looking for clarity, then reducing lines would go a long way. A blank white square for backstory would have a less cluttered image than if there are thick lines.
btw, any plans on improving those hands on big jaw man?
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>>82280250
Yeah, medium size. Probably a little bigger than Ververia, but most of it's interior is sparcely populated.
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>>82280380
I assume that on the edges there are, but oasis in the vast would be uncommon in the extreme. The interior of the vast would be drier than the Sahara, at least around the equator.

The places that Oasis could be formed in large drainage basins would be the eastern equatorial Vast and the North/South Western vast. The mountains in the North West effectively block those Oasis, so the South West is the option there.

Oasis form in deep desert from massive drainage basins bringing very small amounts of water. In the vast there would be sometimes super storms, massive monsoons, that would blow into it and soak it temporarily. The soil holds almost no water though, much like many real world deserts. Oasis in the central vast would be at most temporary after heavy monsoon seasons.
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>>82280464
how do pilgrimages work?
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>>82280383
>>82280398
I like the lines, but agree they add to the clutter. Maybe try to make them thinner instead of outright taking them out?
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>>82280492
To the deep vast? I assume pilgrimages to the deep vast are exceedingly rare. The pilgrimages to the deep vast would only be 'relatively' safely traversable just after heavy monsoon seasons.
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>>82280492
You walk and see the monolith.
Maybe you sing and touch it if you can manage to do it.
Than you go back home and kill Lapsarian with renewed faith.
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>>82280498
I could lighten them like I did the lines in the statistics section.

>>82280398
I can't draw hands to save my life.
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>>82280515
but isn't the monolith in the deep vast?
The fact that people do pilgrimages all the way to the monolith isn't just very old lore, it's also visible on the compass. People are at the monolith. So I guess they would happen during monsoon season only, but they are clearly everything but rare.

>>82280516
this is very correct.
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>>82280531
Just take a photo of your hands and trace over it.
There is no shame in not being able to draw hands, or feet for that matter.
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>>82280542
That's what I'm saying. I think Pilgrimages to the deep vast are rare and dangerous, it's why people die in the attempt or wait for a monsoon season to 'safely' get there.

The Monolith can't be too easy to get to or the Slab Knights would have broken it by now.
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>>82280550
what if I told you that was traced
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>>82280573
Than trace a closed fist instead of duck hand CCA, than atleast no one sees the fingers.
Was the chad jaw traced as well?
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>>82280531
>I could lighten them like I did the lines in the statistics section.
I think that'd go too far. I think it's good to have a distinction between guidelines (To match text and the ball things), writing lines (where you write) and division lines (to split different sections of the sheet)

Also, I think you dropped the lines on the Insight section.

Also also, I just realized you added the "Additional branches" section. I like it!
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>>82280600
>Was the chad jaw traced as well?
yes
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>>82280602
>Also, I think you dropped the lines on the Insight section.
I did, whoops.
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>>82280614
CCA is a Slab Knight confirmed.
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>>82280614
>CCA has a jaw like an anvil
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>>82280587
>The Monolith can't be too easy to get to or the Slab Knights would have broken it by now.
an alternative explanation that would allow more common pilgrimages would be to have all nomadic peoples in the Vast, naturally, protect the monolith against invaders.
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>>82280631
How quickly the turn tables.
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>>82280644
>the Delvers are way stronger than they look like
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>>82280646
Ancestor as a wojak when?
With the whole fucking up everything theme, it would fit the Old Tsar begore he got axolotled
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I'd make it three things
>1. The Monolith is at the centre of the vast, the most inhospitable part of the whole continent
>2. The people, entities, and creatures around the monolith will smack the ever living shit out of Lapsarian military exhibitions
>3. The Crown hasn't made a serious attempt on the interior as its considered a fools errand. The knights are few and who knows what happens if they achieve their Ur goal.
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Reposting notes on basic character creation outline:
>The character creation resource are Character Points (CP)
>Character points are spent on 3 main things, Increasing your Statistics, Increasing your Skills, and Perks
>during character creation Character Points can also be exchanged for additional currency
>All skills and statistics begin at 1
>Increasing Skills costs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
>Increasing Statistics costs 3, 5, 7, 9, 11
>Buying Perks costs an amount dependent on the Perk
>Perks come in two flavors, ones that interact with dice, and 'Quality' perks, which add a definition to your character (Such as 'Stone Touched', 'Oil Altered', etc.), Quality perks are used to qualify for things.
>Every character has a number of Lifepaths, representing a general idea of what their character does (ex. The Kossoki Marauder, The Vagabond, The Stone Whisper, etc.)
>Lifepaths discount a number of Skill & Statistic purchases by 1 (Meaning Skills cost 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 to increase and Statistics cost 2, 4, 6, 8, 10)
>Each lifepath requires you to spend a minimum of 30 points before switching to a new Lifepath
>You can spend more than 30 points before switching, but switching Lifepaths benefits you by increasing the size of your Edge Pool and increasing how many dice you may spend on a check from your Effort Pool
>The size of your edge pool & allowed effort spent on a check is determined by your number of completed lifepaths (1 completed = 1, 2 completed = 2, etc.)
>The size of your effort pool is determined by Total Character Points/10, rounding down
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>>82280725
>For normal character creation you first choose a Background, which gives you a set of base statistics (2 statistics start at 2 instead of 1) and starting Perks (these Perks are Quality perks that define your nationality, race, social class, etc.)
>You then have 60 character points to spend (enough for 2 Lifepaths) A GM can choose to give additional CP at character creation to make starting characters stronger
>From your Background you only qualify for Novice Lifepaths (which are things one does in Childhood), which after completing should allow you to qualify for Journeyman Lifepaths
>Lifepaths will often give free Quality perks on taking them to represent key aspects of the Life Path
>Some Qualities are only give as part of Lifepath, and aren't allowed to be purchased as normal Perks


When the character sheet is done I will make an example character to show the ideas above. Any thoughts?

>>82280715
Sorry, mean it ISN'T so dangerous.
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>>82280644
I think maybe a bit of both might work? Make pilgrimages seasonal & the local tribes unfriendly to Lapsarians. It isn't so dangerous that you can't do it in unseasonal years, but going in groups larger than a dozen should probably be restricted to monsoon years.

The Slab Knights are a pretty new concept, so there might have only been half a dozen prime pilgrimage years since their creation.
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>>82280736
>When the character sheet is done I will make an example character to show the ideas above. Any thoughts?
I think that'd be helpful. Alsways good to see examples to understand how something works
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>>82280715
I absolutely agree with that. You need the right season to get all the way to the monolith without it being an extreme gamble, but it is possible if you are willing to take on extreme hardships. There are tribes and stuff in the vast, but they cannot actually live in the area where without monsoon season there is no water.
The combination is good: It stays extremely hostile, but it enables direct access to the monolith to the faithful.
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Reposting the basic gist of Ritual Rules as well (especially since there was a skill change):
>Magic is performed through ritual, rituals take differing amounts of time depending on the ritual
>Rituals require a number of checks, often using different Mystic skills, equal to their complexity
>Most rituals allow multiple characters to participate, meaning multiple magic characters can collaborate to accomplish a single ritual
>Every time you increase a Mystic skill you learn a ritual of that complexity that uses that skill (If I increase my Ceremony to 3, I get to learn a ritual of Complexity 3 that has one make a Ceremony check)
>Occultism is the skill used to research & develop rituals outside of the ones you naturally develop as your skills increase
>Besides rituals having skill check requirements they can have Rare Materials & Complications
>Rare Materials are just that, and must be sourced (Bargain is the skill that defines one's ability to source items)
>Complications are things that are required of the ritual outside of your control, such as it must be done during the full moon, it must be done on a recently bloodied battlefield, etc. These requirements are most often time/location based. However they can sometimes be things you can't change, like the ritual must only have Durite participants.
>Each mystic skill does primarily a different thing, and so their rituals involve those things, these things are:


>>82280746
I will try and do it today. I'll make a basic Background, Novice Path and Journeyman Path and spend the points.
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>>82280743
>>82280644
I also like a bit of both. We havem after all, te Lapsarian Archeologist who managed to get to the monolith, and based on his descriptions there was some presence of vastians in it's vicinity.
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>>82280771
>Spiritualism (Mystic)
The contacting of and manipulation of spirits, elementals, and other otherworldly entities as well as Religious ceremony. Used to discern information about them, know about them, and in rituals concerning them.
>Phrenology (Mystic)
The magical counterpart to medicine, concerns magic's effect on the body and the natural magical inclinations of the body. Used in rituals that effect the body magically.
>Symbology (Mystic)
Concerning the imparting of power onto objects and the identification of magical objects. Used in rituals to impart magical power onto objects.
>Numerology (Mystic)
Concerning the magical significance of patterns in the world and the discerning of information magically. Used in rituals to divine information magically.
>Occultism (Branched, Mystic)
As a branched skill when one dives into Occultism they must choose a subject of specialty, occultism is used for knowledge on all magical subjects that don't fall into the other categories. This one is not often used in rituals, but is needed for specific and esoteric ones (requiring specific subject matter)
>Alchemy (Mystic)
Concerning the magical properties of animal parts, plants, and metals. Used in rituals to create magical substances.
>Parapsychology (Mystic)
The study of mental phenomena which are excluded from or inexplicable by orthodox scientific psychology. Used in rituals to affect the minds of individuals magically.


>The most common thing a ritual imparts is a Temporary Quality, Qualities are what alter the threshold of certain skill checks if a condition is met (Such as Panic Sieve, which increases your threshold to Repose checks to resist violent trauma).
>Rituals can also cause immediate effects, such as imparting information, causing things to move/change, the binding/summoning of spirits, etc.
>Rituals can also impart effects that do not change skills, but give benefits to the quality, such as allowing them to see in the dark
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>>82280725
>>82280736
>Each lifepath requires you to spend a minimum of 30 points before switching to a new Lifepath
> You then have 60 character points to spend (enough for 2 Lifepaths)
Does this mean you are able to fully use 2 lifepaths, and can get a new one on the next level up?
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>>82280801
As you can see, and as was discussed last thread, these all have 'rough' real world equivalents so they can slot into parts of the Royal University. The links are:

>Spiritualism
Theology
>Phrenology
Medicine
>Symbology
Linguistics
>Numerology
Mathematics
>Occultism
Library Sciences
>Alchemy
Chemistry
>Parapsychology
Psychology

The presence of practical magical knowledge at the university should both be a fringe field and and emergent field. The study of the esoteric arts as something 'scientific' and not mysticism should be an EXTREMELY new endeavor. My guess is the sudden explosion of magic in Capri Bay and the new phenomenon able to be studied would spur the university into putting serious efforts towards the study of such things and the digging up of old discredited texts.

Some idea I have toyed with is:
>Magic was far less doable/practical
>What occurred in Capri Bay signifies the conflict between Fish & Stone reaching a fever pitch
>Magic has had a surge in power as a result
>This isn't a new thing and has happened before, magic waxing and waning with the conflicts of non-mortal entities
So less of a 'magic returns to the world' story, and more of a cyclic thing. Magic growing stronger/weaker as the sides in the conflict strike blows. Also I say 'sides', really it's 'side' with the Monolith just sitting there.
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>>82280802
You would chose your 3rd lifepath as you begin play, so you'd enter the campaign with 2 completed lifepaths and beginning your 3rd.
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>>82280852
Also Capri Bay is at their fucking doorstep.
But who cares? Syneaceaens are all insane.
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>>82280862
Got it.
At a quick glance, 60 points seems a bit much for a player to divy up. Not in that it'll make them too strong (We'd need a practical test to see that), but because it's a lot of options, and might lead to decision paralysis. But tat's just speculation, would need to try it out to see how it'd work.
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>>82280177
I found this image of the Alerian Merchant, but it's different from the one in the compass.
So CCA probably has the one that is edited.
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>>82280940
The Lifepaths are meant to help with that, they discount a small number of things so a player who doesn’t know what to buy is encouraged to just spend it all on discounted skills to get the most bang for their buck.
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>>82280992
Seems reasonable. I'd need to try it out to see how it feels personally, but I trust your judgment
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>>82280852
Might I suggest:
>Semiotics
Linguistics

Because it feels like we have too many -ologies and it sounds weirder than symbology while meaning more or less the same thing.

>Alienism
Psychology
I'd suggest alienism fits as an old-timey term an possibly as implicit worldbuilding that nobody gives a shit about the mundane mind (spiritual counselors might) and alienism began as the study of Brackish and Delver priorities. It moved on to those touched/corrupted by them and finally onto mundanes, Psychology has since risen in prominence while the original Alienists still can't get their hands on non-human study subjects and often go insane before publishing if they do.
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>>82280988
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>>82281147
I like the change to Semiotics, but I would prefer to keep Parapsychology is a huge branch of how the Victorians saw the paranormal.
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>>82281166
Fair enough. Maybe Alienism is a niche within a niche that's a dogwhistle for "someone who's so obsessed with Brackish/Delvers that they've basically become one". Sort of like a doctor being called a "Quack" if that were once an almost respectable term.
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>>82281256
Alienism would probably be a branch of Occultism, same with things like Geomancy and Aether Theory.
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>>82281283
why is alienism part of occultism?
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>>82281396
It either would be placed there or be placed as a specialization of Parapsychology. It really depends on how different it can be from Parapsychology itself.
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>>82280398
>>82280498
>>82280498
Tried a version removing the lines from some boxes.
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>>82281460
immidiately looks much less demanding on the eyes
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>>82281151
Thank you, now the compass anon can put him in.
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>>82281460
Yeah, that does help clean it up.
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Am I misinterpreting something or is the lesser ocean gods' domain the rivers of lapsaria?
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>>82281679
They each reach into one of the rivers. The assumption is they are spiritually/mystically small enough to reach into the rivers. King Fisher is too big of a lad to do so.
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>>82281679
It's less their domain in a strict divine sense and more just bodies of water they like.
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>>82281460
I personally preffer thin lines to no lines, as it helps when writing stuff down, but this does look cleaner than it was before.
Could you try reducing the inner lines in the Perks and Notable Equipments section from 3px to 2px?
Also, do Rituals have any sort of regular structure? Because if they do, it'd be useful to include that structure in the Rituials Known section.
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>>82281697
>>82281703
Thanks. I just wondered how it would make sense to have them reach into freshwater, physically as well as methaphorically
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>>82281765
The Fish gods are not linked the ocean, but to water and fish. That's a way to think of it.
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>>82281718
>Also, do Rituals have any sort of regular structure? Because if they do, it'd be useful to include that structure in the Rituials Known section.
They do, but they're too complicated to fit there. It's some you'd have to reference.

>Could you try reducing the inner lines in the Perks and Notable Equipments section from 3px to 2px?
I'll see what I can do.
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>>82281780
Yeah, the ocean is the Sea, not some dumb fishes.
The Deacon will get what he deserves soon.
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>>82281780
and not even that is fully satisfying
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>>82281794
>Lapsarian Protestant Rable Rouser
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>>82281788
>>82281718
I say this because a ritual includes:
>Name
>Complexity
>Required skill checks
>Leniency
>Rare Materials
>Complications
>Restrictions
>Outcome

So I think recording names and referencing the rule book is more what is needed.
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>>82281836
More like
>Lapsarian Reformist Preacher
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>>82281807
Part of the charm of dealing with such beings
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>>82281856
More Like
>Confused Lapsarian Madman

>>82281868
absolutely
>>
>the fish gods are linked to both fire through burning oil & light through bioluminescence
>the monolith is linked to art through the menhir & plants through Stonewood and the like
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>>82281460
damn I stop paying attention for a few days and things are lookin real good
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>>82281679
Father Oyster’s also sort of sneaky. His call reaches farther into the continent than the others. underground
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>>82281874
>Radical Lapsarian Traditionalist.
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>>82281973
Maybe snails are his secret sons? Slugs on the other hand are to be reviled for their sacrilegious shedding of the shell. Bonus points if that sunset isle snail coffee is somehow affiliated with the father. Could be that the anti-predation chemical becoming a valuable stimulant mirrors the pearl of wisdom made from coating the grit of confusion with the nacre of contemplation.
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>>82281977
>The Self-declared lapsarian centrist
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>>82281788
>I'll see what I can do.
Thanks!
> So I think recording names and referencing the rule book is more what is needed.
Fair enough
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>>82282033
We needn't go that far. His faint call can be heard in each gleaming pearl necklace and shimmering shell used as accessoire by those that feel that old yearning inside of them.
Might also be why the pearldivers do not consume the coral
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>>82282186
Out there cult interpretation then. It's not like there'd be many snails in the dry steppe which make up much of the Vast anyhow. I just don't think snails often get a fair shake in fiction as the dreadful creatures they are.
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>>82279888
fuck I should've gotten into it when it was fresh. I've got no idea what's going on now. are guys actually making a system?
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>>82281856
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>>82282211
>>82282186
>>82282033
>>82281973
I'm currently doing a writeup on the Fish gods and their cults, and I'll definitely be taking ideas from these
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>>82282228
Yes, but the system isn't too directly linked to the setting itself. They are a good fit for each other, but for now at least the setting can be played using any system and the system fit's lot's of different settings
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>>82282249
GASP
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>>82282250
that's a fucking powder keg, I hope you have a good idea of the nuances
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>>82282293
>that's a fucking powder keg, I hope you have a good idea of the nuances
I don't, but thankfully there are other people to go over what I write and make it more appropriate.
things are still very WIP, but if anyone wasnto to go in to take a look/comment/edit go ahead.
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>>82282250
Very much looking forward to it anon. Though I suppose it could be quite the divisive topic
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>>82282249
>Lapsarian Reformist
>The Chruch is corrupt! No more golden big titty mermaids on our sacred altars!
>The Durites can and should be converted! Killing them is wrong!
>NO MORE WARS, FOCUS ON SOCIAL REFORM
>If you fuck a fish, you're going to fish hell.
>>
>>82282249
Kek
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>>82282186
Personally I feel like if the gods of Lapsaria go largely ignored by the masses, then it makes sense that there will be others. Related to a degree but in their own right in these locales.
No doubt there will be some out in the isles, and everywhere else that fish swim.
>>
>>82282320
>>If you fuck a fish
This warning can't stop me because I can't read!
>>
>>82282310
Remeber to write it using a different coloured words so people can go over the suggestions.
Worst case scenario we just scrap a bunch of it and recycle it into something else, like what happened with barbarosa nd the sunset islands.
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>>82282352
Sure will do I was the one who put the comment in the header asking for this, would be abit hypocritical if I just went and ignored it myself
>>
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>>82282337
People who can't read also go to Fish Hell. READ YOUR SCRIPTURE! FAITH NOT WORKS!

But in all seriousness there may be too much conflict already going on in Lapsaria to justify a Protestant reformation. Besides, Lapsaria is Eastern Orthodox themed, not Catholic themed.
>>
>>82282320
this is so fucking draconian, I can't go to fish hell for something like this
>>
>>82281697
>>82281703
>>82281679
I mean, in some twisted way of thinking, rivers aren't water flowing into the ocean but rather the ocean forcefully breaking its way through the soil

Makes no comprehensible sense, though maybe that way of foreign thought doesn't need to to still be true
>>
>>82282370
While I agree completely, it should be remembered that Orthodoxy had its own shitshow that already parallels the situation between the Kossoki, Timajors and the Lapsarian Hegemony.
The Raskol and other clarifications out of the old divided Rhomain rites to the modern Russian church was rough.
>>
>>82282327
I, for some reason never thought of them as a more local entity, interesting
>>
>>82282370
What is that female tarcan inquistior doing supporting such weird preachings? Does creating instability within the Lapsarian faith help spread the Stone faith (it still needs a name)
>>82282473
The Old Believers right?
>>
>>82282511
They are tied to the rivers after all, though their influence spreads outside them it should be remembered the world is big.
In the case of the Islands, I personally imagine the Coral has something of a will of its own. Not like Fish but possessing a vitality. 'The Forest' as it were, cousin to the Lost Reef. Builder of Land and Shaper of Minds.
I have a few Ideas about such entities in the Islands and Veveria.

>>82282567
Yes Indeed.
>>
>>82282511
they aren't local entities, that's just the guises taht are most relevant to Lapsaria

>>82282576
they are associated with the rivers, not necessarily tied to them
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>>82282603
I second this interpretation. In Lapsaria, they are worshiped in certain aspects, but they do exist in the wider world.
At least most of them. I see few ways the Eel sire is active in the wider world, but still.
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>>82279922
Something that crossed my mind during last thread.

The Sultan's baker
>Born slave, baked hisway to freedom
>Lives his best life
>Proudly clean from coral. Honey, on the other hand...
>Unfortunately, diabetes is a thing

It lead me to think that, given their enormous sugar and tobacco production (and likely consumption), sunset islanders should have rotten teeth. And a shiny golden smile for those who can afford it.
>>
>>82282885
Aight, Imma expand the compass to fit this lad.
>>
>>82282885
Maybe the Sunset Isles make fake teeth out of coral.
>>
>>82282885
What a decadent fellow.
>>
>>82282950
Anon, they can't make everything out of coral. And I really wouldn't want something rough, friable and abrasive as my new teeth.

On a second thought, maybe I would if the rough, friable and abrasive thing also happened to double as crack cocaïne.
>>
>>82283004
Can’t feel the tooth decay and gum rot if your teeth are literally coke levels of numbing agent
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>>82282950
Good metal feels like one of the things the Islanders require as a trade good, not just precious metals but just about anything..
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>>82282885
And another one

the Barbaros traditionalist
>Has never set foot on land
>Countless bounties on his head
>Wants to oppose Lapsaria, is 100 times worse than them
>Didn't learn from past mistakes
>>
>>82283659
That boy is powerful. Like a Boxer anyways.
>>
>>82281697
>>82281703
>>82282603
>>82282465
>Sea: Saltwater, all sorts of sediment and filth settling in it, different temperature gradients at the surface
>Rivers: Freshwater, very specific mineral content (sometimes advertised by modern mineral water companies) deriving from mountainous sources, generally cold
In lots of myths, there are gods that don’t fit cleanly into one pantheon or another. Hecate is considered both a Titan by descent and an ally of the Olympians, for example. And Loki a jotun by birth and also Odin’s blood brother.

Is it possible that the freshwater gods, while MOSTLY paying homage to the King Fisher and being of a similar order of entity, are increasingly influenced by the land and it’s central power? There could be different factions-some of which see themselves as true emissaries of the sea wearing down the land, some of which are mercenary and capricious in their attitudes and seek to make use of both land and sea’s opportunities (or just animalistically loyal to whatever hand feeds them best), some of which have somehow been corrupted by the Monolith. Either knowingly, like bribed by the delvers or something, or as sleeper agents.

None have gone so far as the First Traitor, of course. But many are on thin ice with the deep sea gods. Heck, maybe some of them escaped to the rivers to begin with because of some ancient grudge.
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>>82283788
Sea and ocean aren't the Fish gods, they are Fish gods.
It's not water vs earth or sea vs land, it's fish vs stone. They are eldritch being, not the incarnation of physical powers, they have power in water because it's where fish lives.
>>
>>82282957
The word decadent and that pic bring hedonismbot from futurama to mind.
>>
I am considering making alterations to character creation. Currently it goes:
Background -> Novice Life Path -> Journeyman Life Path

I am considering changing it to:
Ancestry -> Background -> Novice Lifepath -> Journeyman Life Path

Basically changing your racial origin to be a separate thing from your Background, where as currently Background includes racial origin. Mechanically one's race does not do much, it gives you a Quality for that race. The Quality will sometimes be a requirement for certain lifepath or perks, such as needing to be a Durite to become a Stonesinger.

There is a Perk called 'Adopted By' that gives you the quality for lifepath prerequisites, and can be bought later in the game, but is expensive. The only cheap way is to be born into it.

Thoughts?
>>
Also a simplified explanation of Carrying Capacity:
>Carrying Capacity is one of the few things derived directly from one's Statistics rather than from Skills
>The system instead of using weight in pounds assigns each item a Heft
>Heft is a combination of its weight and how awkward it is to carry (similar to PF2E's Bulk system)
>There are 4 levels of Encumbrance, each causing a Bane to certain checks if met
>The limits are multiples of your base Brawn statistic
>1x Brawn is no penalty, 2x is a Bane of 1, 3x is a Bane of 2, and 4x is a Bane of 3
>A character can not carry more than 4x their Brawn in Heft
>Some small items either cause no Heft (too small) or only provide 1 Heft per 10 (anything small that is conceivably placed in a pouch or box to be carried instead of on its own)
>>
>>82284650
Personally I'm more a person who finds these things through building. With that said, I do like the Adopted perk, just because culture jumping is more frequent in this time period than people like to admit.
>>
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>>82283659
>>82282885
Here we go. Added these, changed some positionings and some text.
I can start a 4x4 for another culture if people are interested (The was discussion of either a Hassym, Masovii+Sligaff or Northern/Suuri compass)
>>
>>82284748
We need the coral from the main compass, and a volcano in there.
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>>82284748
The ifrit might fit now considering the size increase and opening of 1,1
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>>82284887
Change the ifrit from a fire mercenary to just an insane, mutated pyromaniac, or an actual devout to differentiate from the fire priestess, and he can fit.
>>
>>82284869
The Coral from the main compass is like Thule. Personally it feels like we need a new image specifically for the Islands.
>>
Don't know what the verdict is on the not!coffee >>82242950 but I'm eager to see something which involves the weirdness of tiered farming.

>Gochem Creche Tender

>Tends the snails who eat the polyps who contain the algae who make Gochem.
>Must be concentrated in the shells they say so why does it tingle when the corals sting?
>Not like he can compare, being caught red handed with green gums is a death sentence.
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So, ground coral polyp dust in some strong booze, good idea or bad idea?
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>>82285026
Depends what you like, Personally I don't think it's worth sacrificing the prickle of fresh nematocysts for regular old drunkenness. Besides everyone knows the only proper moistened powder is gochem. I hear the particularly extravagant prepare it in sand baths of the drug itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj7Nnn7ycho
>>
>>82285026
First read it to make bronze, and though it was going to be dust of progress 2: Sunset boogaloo.

People mix all kinds of drugs together, it would be weird if there wasn't coral booze.
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>>82285078
Perhaps there's some islander coral variant of worm-in taquila
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>>82285180
Bobbit worm tequila
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>The Deep Forest
>Estranged Polyp of the Great Reef
>Power without Thought
>Turns Sea into Stone
>Maker of Isles
>>
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Hmmmm, that's some nice looking coral you guys got there, shame if something were to happen to it...
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>>82284992
We're hardly lacking for normal characters in this compass but another's nice.

>Urbane Wastel

>Clouds of hookah mist.
>Steaming cups of gochem.

>Stories within stories.
>He's too buzzed for one plot.

>Writes LAPSED sultana erotica.
>Writes geopolitical treatise.
>They're one and the same.

>>82285226
Maybe reference glass sponges too or even silicate plankton. Lots of stone-makers in the sea overshadowed by coral.
>>
>>82285275
iirc these freaks cover themselves in a layer of mucus to avoid being scratched while feeding and then eat that tattered booger to recycle the protein and whatever crumbs got stuck in it.
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>>82285318
In a setting like this, it would not surprise me if the parrot fish are the size of white sharks or worse considering all the fucked up shit there would be in one's main diet being coral.
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>>82285318
They're an extremely important counter-balance since the main feature of the ocean and beaches the world over is sand created by coral-fish excretions after eating corals.
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>>82285360
>Parrot-Sharks are one of the few domesticated animals in the isles that have been truly tamed.
>They're used to cut up larger sections of Reef and to keep the wilder areas from preventing large ship passage.
>They're also a valuable commodity for the coral plantations as the jelly can be applied to the hands and feet.
>While quite nippy and temperamental, they are reliable at what they do and protect their handlers from more dangerous sea creatures.
>The 'jaws' of a parrot shark are sometimes used for weapons and tools, and their droppings produce extremely pure soft sand.
>>
>>82285379
You don't say. I know shipworms were a game-changer when they evolved, basically eliminating the "floating reef" ecology you used to get with slow-decaying driftwood overnight. I know there are shipworm relatives which can bore into rock so maybe they're a father clam aligned ally to the parrots fighting the good fight against encroaching coral.
>>
>>82285442
Many a cautionary old wives tale about the grand attempts to tame starfish for the same purposes.
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>>82285589
How would sponges fit on sea life? Alliea of the coral?
And jellyfishes?
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>>82285603
It's a revolving door most-like, giant sea sponges ain't to be fucked with. They're voracious like starfish.
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>>82285589
Even if the bastards didn't keep wandering off to munch on urchins you could only ever get through to a couple hundred of their little legs. I hear that when the chief handler's prize beast tore itself apart in protest she did much the same.
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>>82285603
Jellies are extensions of the corals though only the sages those who've felt the sting of live polyps know this. Beware the lion's mane.
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>>82285629
I thought they would be way more fish alligned, since the Tarcan man-o-war are escorted by a few.
>>
>Be semi-innocent coral diver
>Cautiously collecting your coral, head on a swivel
>Suddenly get decapitated by the massive beak of a coral mimicking dire-starfish

Midgardia Xandaros is the world's biggest starfish IRL, it is also the world's biggest Brisingid starfish and the world's biggest echinoderm of any type besides. So think three times that size and able to shift colors and texture like an octopus.

Also coral isn't passive, corals are actually very territorial, if one coral doesn't like the intrusion of another, they eat each other alive by acidic stomach extrusion. Those poor fucking coral divers man.
>>
>>82285603
They all fit that realm of 'not quite fish' and in some sense not as alive as other creatures, with Coral being the least present.
However if they live long enough and grow large enough, then they, like the Reef and the Forest can attain a sort of energy like the River gods.
>>
>>82285620
Among the many lurid coastal myths, some speak of a poor village of would be starfish wranglers and the great riches what soon beheld those who prayed to the many armed gods of murk, as well as the woad what befell them. Whispers of pacts and marriages to the coral eaters as starfish beget man's intellect and man beget the vigor of starfish. Indeed it was the starfish who prospered as they were welcomed and joined to wicked delights, for as the starfish grew bolder, the village children soon spawned did change. Oh the village prospered, a glut of wealth from the brine but so to does the night sea swell as a cold intellect soon consume them all. Now of course the village is no more, but aged survivors and tall-tale tellers do remember, speaking in hushed tones of the children, driven to excess, insatiable in their hunger for flesh and lust for corals! Unable to be killed by sharpest spear or heaviest axe, stabbed and chopped, split and stricken to many pieces, only for their gory bits to wriggle and hiss budding children anew like knocking limbs off their starfish kin to spit on a griddle only to see the limbs of those devilish creatures born again as if never harmed...
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Thoughts on insidious giant hermit crabs who mimic and mock the ways of man?
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>>82286084
Frankly I'm more interest in insidious normal-sized hermit men who mimic and mock the ways of crab
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>>82286084
I think anthropomorphized animals is a bit too fantasy for my taste.
>>82286142
This however I enjoy
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>>82286142
That hermit-crab mimicking merchant under the old bridge is a little off, but he's a good dude, his coral prices are always fair.
>>
>>82286142
>It's Diogenes except instead of a barrel he's got a shell
Look at him go.
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>>82286197
Would coral excess make him stranger than normal to haul his house around?
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>>82286142
Piss him off and you'll find a surly coconut-crab in your bed my morning...
>>
>>82286157
>>82286084
yeah same feel here, if we dip too far into the fantasy elements we run the risk of trivializing them in the setting
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>>82286197
Just think of the crab he had to fist fight in order to get it. What a champion.
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>>82286197
>>82286293
>>82286179
Based.
>>
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>>82286339
Side tangent, this reminded me of the buddha gonna have to do a write up later for an enlightened monk of some sort with snail hair
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>>82285703
This is why the experienced diver of corals always gingerly pokes his surroundings with a harpoon
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>>82286339
Cover him in old seaweed and get rid of the horns and staff, and you got something.
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>>82286259
Thoughts on mermaids that are just dugongs having a laugh?
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>>82286414
well we already have the handmaidens for sirens

I figure dugongs making up the majority of mermaid sightings and Handmaidens making up the rest would be pretty on brand
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>>82284748
My thoughts are if we're doing the additional compasses, we should probably stick to doing them one at a time.
That said, in terms of priority - Masovii > North > Hassym imo
>>
>>82286620
We could also do ones for Lapsaria and the Durites
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>>82286652
This is the Lapsaria compass my dude >>82279901
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>>82286690
Nah that’s still a full setting compass.

I mean one that exclusively includes Lapsarian characters, and another that does Durite characters
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>>82285226
>>82284887
Added!

>>82284917
That's how I interpret him at least, especially since there seems to be actual fucking fire on him.

>>82284869
>We need the coral from the main compass, and a volcano in there.
I'd like to include the Volcano, and if noone does it I might just work on it myself.

>>82286620
I think we can have a couple of them floating around, like how we have the Jasentof and the Sunset ones right now.
Also, about priority, whiile aI agree that Masovii is more important than tthe North, people seem to be more inspired for the North (+ there's already quite a lot of artwork for it). But I agree Hassym is low priority, if very fun.

>>82286652
Isn't that just the main compass? At least how I interpreted it, tthe main compass is meant to represent mainly Lapsaria itself and people who are in Lapsaria/Have interests in Lapsaria
>>
>>82286722
>Nah that’s still a full setting compass.
I don't think so. Like >>82286727 says, everyone in that compass is meant to have some relation with Lapsaria itself. At least, when ideas for stuff to add to the compass were being thrown around, it being somehow relevant to Lapsaria was pretty relevant.
>>
>>82286652
well I do think the Durites definitely need more expanding.
for one of the most important groups in the setting arguably, we don't actually have all that much written about them
>>
>>82283788
no such thing as water gods. There is king fisher, there are his three most famous children, and there is us, his beloved family.
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>>82286722
no it's explicitely a compass only for things in Lapsaria.
>>
>>82286727

>Coral Shaman (coral/fish mutated looking guy/girl)
>Coral is change, and change is the will of the Deep Ones
>The sea provides, Coral provides more
>Come, let us swim among the reefs
>Actually pretty chill
>>
>>82287287
>Explicitly in Lapsaria
not quite. But it is stuff that would still have some sort of political, cultural, or other influence in the area if they aren't. See
>Some of the Masovii people aside from the Dignitary
>The Narwhale and the Ice Worm
>The Monolith
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>>82287567
>Luolammies
You aren't even trying anymore? Torilla tavataan
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>>82287869
I dodnt do the prompt, what is that in finish now. And why are some people seemingly intent on spreading finish terminology so widely in the setting as to make it meaningless?
>>
>>82283004
>>82282250
>>82282186
>>82281973
I just rechecked the loredump and realized coral is directly related to Father oyster and not an entirely distinct entity.

I always instinctively thought of coral as an unholy amalgamation of fish and stone of unknown origins. But I also like the idea of Father Oyster being at least partly about deceiving and luring with faux permanence; pearls, coral, shell, all things that seem robust and stonelike but are constantly in a state of change.
>>
>>82288637
it's both. both is true.
>>
>>82286727
The Iffrit's main purpose was to give Barbaros some extra punch for their failed war against Lapsaria. Allso, we have to include Iffrits if we have fire-worshipping arabs.

I think they can be the final sacrament for the most warlike fire cultists : they immolate themselves right before a battle. The burning oil infuses them with supernatural vitality for a couple hours, before they die out.
Definitely simping for the fire priestess, but not strictly the same
>>
>>82288637
I imagine some Hook rituals involve the old dissolving pearls in vinegar and drinking them, seems fittingly transformative and stone-to-fish-y
>>
File deleted.
Alright, take 6.

Cleaned the map up and took out the place names. Pry will do some minor changes here and there, but overall I think it's pretty close to a finished product.
>>
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>>82289695
Goddamn it.
>>
>>82285659
Hydrozoans ain't cnidarians.
>>82286293
The Leviathan equivalent of cynicism is literally cancer because not!diogenes idolises crabs (all creatures become them eventually) rather than dogs.
>>
>>82287968
If it helps perkeland originally was a joke because the northern front was hell.
>>
>>82288637
I don't like that, it feels like it weakens both the coral and the fish.
>>
>>82288637
>Not
>Everything
>Needs
>To
>Be
>Tied
>To
>The
>Big
>FISH
>>
>>82289719
I'm gonna say again, I think its a bad idea to call the mixed ethnicity "Ververian". Both ethniciteis see htmselves as fully Ververian, and as far as I know, the mixed ones don't have any special power in the realm. There is simply nobody who would name the mixed ones Ververian. I'd call them Vervite or something like that.

Note that I assume the "Ververian" is an ethnicity of mixed population. If the original idea that the orange is both Clannsmen and Marshfolk still stands, then boy is this a bad way of visualizing it. If that is the case, and there is no seperate ethnicity called "Ververian", then the brown should be changed into lines of violet and grey or at least the key reflect that. However I don't suppose this si the case because it would really be an indecipherable way of showing it.
>>
>>82289857
>>82289848
I do see what you mean, just playing off what I read in the loredump
>>
>>82290103
Well, the lore dump was written by one anon who was afraid his ideas would break the setting.
If coral being fish is how it ended up, than his fears were right, and we are going to need to do some cleaning.
>>
>>82290183
nta but I think there's cause for a lesser link between fish gods and coral which underscores exactly why father clam isn't as permanent as his followers might claim him to be. I advocate snails and shelled mollusks in general being under his domain (maybe cephalopods are were once ammonite high priests before they wriggled free from their obligations) and dig this spec-bio's take on other potential reef builders.
https://sites.google.com/site/worldofserina/the-pangeacene-188---250-million-years/undersea-savannahs-planktants-snail-reefs-and-chainjelly-colonies
However cnidarian coral already occupies that niche and while father's cultists might take take shell-mounds and chalk strata as a sign that he oversees coral's sea-to-stone cycle the fact is that the father's children are vulnerable to ocean acidification which true coral's seemingly immune to. They also aren't mutagenic (gochem only gets that way because the snails consume coral).
>>
>>82290183
I tend do agree. As said, my first impression was that both were distinct. I mean, I wouldn't mind either if it was thought through and agreed upon, I apparently wrongly assumed the loredump only gets edited after an idea has been discussed in the thread.
>>
>>82289857
>King Fisher dislikes this post
>>
>>82290294
If it's a different colour, than it's either a in thread discussion copypasted, or a suggeation that needs to be reviewed.
If it's normal, than it's either something permament, or someone turned thise discussions into something coherent.
Or someone forgot to format it. I will admit that I it's something that I constantly do.
>>
>>82290355
>it's normal, than it's either something permament
it's important to note here that this doesn't mean it's canon. The doc will always remain somewhat plastic compared to the compass.
>>
>>82290401
Definatly, but if it's written in black, than it's a go ahead to built upon it because it has been more accepted.
So far the conflicts between "definitive" lores ended up with just a minor edit or note, as opposed to full rewrites of the proposals.
>>
>>82290048
Ververian is supposed to be the mixed population, descended from Clannsmen and Marshfolk alike. Also, this group does have some power the others don't however, as both the nobility and the warrior class are Ververian.

My thinking with it was something along the lines of the conquer who united Ververia tried to integrate the two formerly opposing cultures into both a single state, and single culture. Those most loyal to this new state adopted the name of Ververia, the name of the new country, as a way to show how they committed to it. They were no longer Marshfolk or Clannsmen, but Ververians.
The Marshfolk and Clannsmen who didn't adopt this new culture wholesale would not have been punished or repressed by the government, but they also would not be able to take advantage of the benefits adopting the new culture brought, which played into the rise of the Ververian's into the dominate ethnic group in Ververia.

With that being said, if the name is unpopular amongst the thread then I have no problem renaming it, I'm not all that crazy about Vervite as a replacement though.
>>
>>82290462
Inprefer Ververian, vervite makea me remind of termite.
Might be how Lapsarian veterans call them.
>>
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Tried to do a little work on a hermit crab monk, but couldn't figure out a way to feature a shell that looks anything but shit. If anyone wants to do anything with this, have at it.
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>>82290490
Maybr a crab-inspired hat like the crab raiders from Kenshi or the crab clan from L5R?
>>
>>82290462
if they are the ruling class, it's fine that they call themselves Ververian, albeit a bit boring. I had assumed the big emphasize on duality meant the two cultures were forming the ruling class from their own aristocracy.
>>82290484
don't look up who populates the Duritas Steppe
>>
>>82290490
i can do somethign with it later if you want to. You want a hermit crab shell on the dude or just iconography that evokes it?
>>
>>82290566
It's a united duality, the King and Queen represents the clans and the marshes, but they are one house.
The nobility, the soldiers, their vassals/serfs and the occasional merchants or craftsman calking themselves Ververian to show their loyalty (and maybe get some benefits from it) seem that it would fit.
Maybe Verver is the royal house? Or the name of the founder, and the house is Ververic.
>>
>>82290593
>>82290515
Up to you guys, I'm just throwing that out there as a base to work with.
>>
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>Getting monkies addicted to corals
Good idea or bad idea?
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>>82290490
Here's what you do, you take the ubiquitous rice hat and instead of straw you make it a giant sand dollar instead.
>>
>>82290566
My take on it was that it was the closet followers of the conqueror and those leaders among both ethnic groups who sided with him who became the first Ververian's and the first ruling class of the country.
To try and cement this union, the conqueror pulled a marriage at Susa type deal that proved way more successful than hoped. Maybe he even took both a Clannsmen and a Marshfolk wife, to symbolize the new union.
>>82290637
I like the sound of the House of Verver. Gives a bit more weight to the people adopting the name Ververian too.
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I have nothing to add but this pufferfish hat, a smart look for any style-minded coral toker.
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>>82290781
A poor man's crown.
>>
So, ocean and river trade routes, in such a setting would there be some sort of "River Barons" or the like in the settings' tone? Because corals are one thing but given the rich merchant classes found from one culture to the next, I propose a thriving Sea-Silk Road with many cultures acting as checks and various extortions along the way, just like the real Silk Road's many underhanded meanderings.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_silk
Sea silk was one of the most sought after materials in antiquity, up to the middle ages IRL, much riches were to be had for those that controlled the craft involved in its distribution. Not only that but I would be remiss not to mention Tyrian Purple, the most expensive dye of the old world that was made from the cultivation of Mediterranean sea snails. Both of these things are perfect for the setting.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
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>>82290855
Have a The Filipino Salakot made from tortoise shell.
>>
Controversial Opinion: The cultivation of Sea Barley.
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>>82291174
You don't play by the books but damnit, you get results
>>
Farming sea barleys sounds quite peaceful actually. Sure it's a poor lots job but you'd be hearty for it and it would probably be relatively safe. Also fucking salt, holy shit the salt trade would be booming. And the creation of various fish sauces would be a choice profession.
>>
Would Lapsarians train dogs for water work? Dogs have some history on ships, and certainly on docks. Portuguese Water Dogs, the Nova Scotia Duck Toller, and the Schipperke are three examples of specifically water-bred dogs people have used for both military and civilian work for real so Lapsarians probably would have their own version of some good boys yeah?
Also amusing but unrelated:
>The Royal Navy used dried peas boiled in a bag (pease pudding) as one of their staple foods circa the early 19th century. Sailors nicknamed this item "dog's body". In the early 20th century, junior officers and midshipmen who performed jobs that more senior officers did not want to do began to be called "dogsbodies". The term became more common in non-naval usage c. 1930, referring to people who were stuck with rough work.
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>>82290103
Is that the coral section in resources? The whole Father Oyster relation is mostly an idea an anon throw out, not well established lore
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>>82292074
Nice job.
There is a misspelling in the gregarii by the way.
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>>82283788
probably the less said about the fish the better
They are meant to be eldritch unknowable entities after all
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>>82290183
>the lore dump was written by one anon who was afraid his ideas would break the setting
If you're talking about >>82282250, I'm pretty sure he wasn;t the one who put that on, as he's working on a different secion, and the Father Oyster- Coral connection has been in the docs for ages (As a possibility, not as an agreed upon concept)
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>>82292315
yea, but that's true for a lot of things and that's just a losing battle. The nature of this project is that everything gets more and more concrete, and even though it tends to make things worse, it's not really a fault. That's just what the collaboration willr esult in.
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>>82292318
Yeah, I took a look at the docs, that wasn't on the original idea of the coral, so someone added it when they wrote it on the section, most likely before we had the colour rule.
I agree with Green's idea.
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>>82292315
I agree. We should leave concrete only stuff like how and by whom he is worshipped. What he actually is whould be up for interpretation
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>>82292343
desu I think we should focus less on the concrete for the eldritch entities, and decide what the average person perceives them as.

so instead of having solid lore about the kingfisher, we get the interpretation of him that the cults tell us.

that way we can leave the details of it all fuzzy, and leave the specifics up to the imagination of the GM and their players
>>
>>82292382
>>82292385
The hivemind strikes again
>>
>>82292385
>>82292382
>>82292343
Another really important detail is that we should try and refrain from filling every corner of the setting.

At the end of the day this is gonna be a ttrpg. we need to leave a little room for player imagination
>>
>>82292385
>>82292382
Thi is why I'm slowly developing the Fish Cults section focused more on the cultists than on the gods themselves. We don't know shit about the gods other than what their followers tell us, and, looking from the perspective of the Lapsarians, we have no reason to even believe these creatures are gods
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>>82292315
Personally I feel we need to expand the fact there are more entities. We've already got the Forest, why not give it one or two more items for the islands?
Even if we don't expand them outside of lore info all that much they're a good springboard.
>>
>>82292434
>We've already got the Forest
We do?
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>>82292434
miss me with that shit, that's gay as hell
>>
>>82292446
>POWER WITHOUT THOUGHT
>MAKER OF ISLES
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>>82292455
Ah ok. I though you meant an actual forest, not the coral one.
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>>82292454
Do you really want a situation of 'oops all clam daddy' everywhere we go?
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>>82292454
Yeah, the fire vs coral is good as is.
They got pearls, they got coral, they have stone-flame and fish-flame.
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>>82292490
personally I think coral should be separate from father oyster, more interesting if its the halfway bastard of stone and fish that's not meant to exist
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>>82292490
I mean I wouldn't mind that at all, but what I actually want is a situation of: There's King fisher and then there's everything that's derivative of him. And also there is a big rectangular rock. What I don't want is a menacherie of """eldritch""" haunted houses and a way to be a wizard in every corner.
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>>82292518
The result Monolith and King Fisher's ancient emotionless/hate-sex session.
I'm sorry.
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>>82292557
Monolith x King Fisher erotica when?
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>>82292594
clap clap clap
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>>82292594
Looking good.
The fact this little baby of a country managed to fight off Lapsaria into a white peace must be a source of national shame.
>>
>>82292594
>>82292642
That causes me to think: do they have a magino line or a great wall of china going on their eastern border.
>>82292642
I mean to be fair they are almost the size of Italy
>>
>>82292518
Coral is already its own thing I think, the Great Reef and the Forest are both just vibing.
Although they've still got the brainpower of a Vaster.

I feel as if an aspect of fish we've been ignoring is plurality.

>>82292551
I agree with you to a point. The problem becomes when you have a giga ocean and apparently everything revolves around a handful of entities in Lapsaria. So we need to keep things distinct. And removed, outside of the Fish that matter (Ie; Those who influence the surface.) Consider the Existing examples, there's only one 'Big' fish, while others have their influence around smaller defined bodies of water. The Forest follows a similar template, albeit in the sense its an idiot god with an even more limited potential.

Evidently the powers beneath are removed from matters on the Sunset Isles, but that doesn't mean no one is influencing things. Two sets of creatures immediately come to mind. The Starfish monstrosities and the Parrot fish. Personally, I like the domestic potential of Parrot fish and would prefer them to just be slimy beasts of burden. On the other hand, the Starfish?

Another almost mindless entity that is unable to meaningfully plan, but does have considerable influence over its children.
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>>82292594
Just checked and the scale is consistent witth the other map. Good job!
One detail though, tthe insides of Lapsaria are somewhat wrong, as the Venit River has been somewhat updated wince you started makin this map (see pic related, left is your map, right is CCa's Lapsaria Map)
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>>82292706
I used old map as template, so gonna fix it later.
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>>82292695
well there's nothing stopping us from just making the king and his kin a uniquely Lapsarian occurrence
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>>82292695
>everything revolves around a handful of entities in Lapsaria
Here's the thing, they aren't IN Lapsaria. Other than the Eel sire, they do have influence over specific rivers in Lapsaria, but that doesn't mean their influence is limited to that. Those are probably just specific aspects of them that are worshiped in Lapsaria in opposition to other aspects that are worshipped elsewhere.
One example would be the Pearl Divers of the SUnset Isles worshipping Father Oyster (Or at least something simmilar to him). They recognize the Transformer and pearl part of his domain, but don't care about tthe Nemjiski, and maybe even have thir own lagoon/attoll/something they associate with this entity.
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>>82292695
I'm fine with "Aunty Angler, but this culture's version of her" or "a servant of King Fisher, but he's a starfish". What I am not a fan of is "AND ALSO THERE IS CTHULLHU AND THE OVERMIND AND A MAGIC TREE". the more distinct magic shit you add, the more you dilute the original intruige.
On the other hand, you could just manually kill it by doing >>82292731

That'd solve the problem in an abstinence-only kind of way.
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>>82292747
Even the eel sire, everyone is talking about like he can't be anywhere else - have you guys looked at his image in the compass? He isn't ONE eel, he's thousands. So he is that river and sleeps at its bed, yes, but that doesn't preclude him from being the same with other rivers all over. He's ane xplicitely pluralistic entity
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>>82292747
To add on to this, a couple of threads ago, some anons suggested that even Sunsetian Fire worship is indirectly related to Auntie Angler, as fire is just another one of eher bright lures.
>>82292784
Damn, I didn't think of it like that. That's actually really really good.
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>>82292798
>To add on to this, a couple of threads ago, some anons suggested that even Sunsetian Fire worship is indirectly related to Auntie Angler, as fire is just another one of eher bright lures.

Its lvl1 canon that at least part of it is that. There are literally her handmaidens runnign around dancing in the fire.
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>>82292775
Completly agree, overextending the Fish Gods to be just aspects of the ocean is a stupid as flooding a billion different dieties around.
There can be influences from them in other cultures, but also don't make everything about them. Sometimes a human just sees a big storm or a huge animal and decides it needs ro be worshipped.
The Forest is just another type of Coral. They have eldritch like qualities, but aren't really gods or servants, they are just a thing.
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>>82292731
I feel like the King is a bit above the grade of 'Just Lapsaria' although still not much further than that the western Coastline. Though he is the King, so he's kind of an exception.

>>82292775
Fair enough. But then we're going to run into the opposite problem of "Why the hell can't I get away from [X], [X] is EVERYWHERE. Also apparently [x]'s influence is weak enough some plucky PC's can undercut them!"

I'm not saying every country gets a fish god pantheon. However Fish are PLURAL and the Deep is a GLOBAL OCEAN.
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>>82292852
cosigned 100% It was such a fight to have the Lapsarian religion just be a religion, and there it was unambiguous that fish worship was new and prosecuted. People love making everything as magic as possible.

>>82292858
as I said, I'm not opposed to having local servants to King Fisher, nor to having the three we know of ones appear elsewhere under other guises. What I am opposed to is introducing new systems and mechanisms of supernaturality into the world, we already have plenty.
And since they are ELDRITCH we don't have to explain shit about why they would be thwartable in some instances, except of course if we go on explaining them into excrutiating detail until they're just dudes in the water with superpowers.
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>>82292858
the thing is, when you're not in the water, the king's reach is fairly limited, but the reach of his worshippers isn't.

that way we have a fairly mundane threat in service of a larger more eldritch one
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>>82292907
I never said new mechanics. I'm working from precedent; there is the Great Reef, there are the Big Fish. Anything new follows the same rules as what has already been established.

>>82292967
Agreed.
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>>82292907
>it was unambiguous that fish worship was new and prosecuted
Prosecuted? Yes
New? Not really. Not that there's anything pointing to them being old, but there's also nothing pointing towards them being new either.
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>>82293002
I don't know if I misunderstood you or if you're being intentionally obtuse. The reef itself is already a new mechanism of supernatural delivery. If you're saying "I'm just following the rules of how to introduce new mechanisms of doing supernatural stuff" then that's just semantics. If you mean "I'm just using the rules the reef and the King FIsher provide to do things derivative of them" then I largely don't have a problem with it.

>>82293009
yea I basically expressed myself badly here. I meant the churche's deal with the fish was new.
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>>82292967
to elaborate

The king himself should never be a threat you can counter. more likely than not he will never even be seen by human eyes.

in the compass the brackish ones are his messengers and the hooks the ones that carry out his will.

the plucky adventurers will probably only see these, but if they've very unlucky, they might find themselves in the presence of one of the King's kin.
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>>82293048
> I meant the churche's deal with the fish was new.
Oh yeah, at least to the level of it currently is.
Thoughj it surely didn't appear overnight, so it was probably a couple of years/decades from a few church members being corrupted to the Deacon himself being in bed with the Fish worshippers. In fact, there's some info on the cos regaring this, both in the Religion section and in the Deacon's section
Religion: "In recent years, a couple of Eparchs and Prelates in coastal regions, were discovered to have connections to underground fish cults. This information was kept tightly under wraps by the church, and the Order of Ichthys is actively hunting down any and all mentions of this incident, but there’s still speculation amongst some circles of how far up these connections truly went."
Deacon: "While he was still a Parish, he was introduced to certain queer ideas related to the ocean and creatures within it by peers in the church. "
>>
Damn, just woke up and I had a really weird dream of Anons in this thread vehemently defending the Tsarina and the Deacon boned, that she lusted after him as he was her father figure, and this was the reason why he could get away with his fish dealings.
I should stop coming to these threads so often.
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>>82293106
I mean, anybody can write anything into that doc. That's fine little lore if you like it, but that's just a guy writing something into a doc without consulting anybody else (or talking to one guy who happens to read over it) or doing any art for it. So I don't really take that as any kind of evidence.
Though you're right about there surely having been a long prelude that lead up to the bargain.
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>>82293124
jeez anon we all know the Tsarina turns a blind eye because she enjoys the clam
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>>82293124
Well there was no Tsarina x Deacon atleast.
But there was Monolith x King Fisher
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>>82293133
Oh yeahof course. Not presenting this as some sort of evidence towards my point, just as a semi-developed idea that could be interesting to consider in this scenario. And I do personally enjoy it + see no direct contradiction to any well estabilished cannon.
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>>82293173
yea, I'd agree
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>>82293133
Hey, as one of the guys who wrote that part together with the religion, there as atleast 3 autists.
The idea was that it was like corruption in the underbelly of the church, sometjing way more hidden and actually disliked. Because since the so much of the Synod's is focused on rituals appeasing the Sea, the eventual heretic would end up falling in witha cult. Matters that were resolved internally without the population knowing, most likely the origin of the Order.
The huge influence jump was when the Deacon got in power, so it went from actually hidden and hunted to conspiracy hidden and hunted.
Hope my retarted ass manage to explain it properly.
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>>82293048
>If you mean "I'm just using the rules the reef and the King FIsher provide to do things derivative of them" then I largely don't have a problem with it.

We're doing the talking around each other thing I feel.
So I'll put my points in bullet form so you can cross-examine them as you will.

>There are other Fish (capitalized to differentiate them from other fish) out in the world, however they are almost completely removed from the human world
>Despite this, some Fish derive or influence the inhabitants of the land, and should be on the charts
>Coral is a distinct (but established) material that is to a degree removed from Fish, but not Stone
>Coral is utilized in a similar vein to stone, oil, dust and salt
>The Forest and the Great Reef occupies a position of power, but has no mind and no real consciousness to speak of
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>>82293233
that still seems to not include the central part: what is these other Fish' relationship to the King Fisher? In other words HOW do they derive or influence the inhabitants of the land? Do they use the established (albeit vague, which is a good thing) method of alure and gift, or do they do their own, new stuff like the non-conscious reef did when it was added to the compass?
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>>82293144
>>82293124
on that note I added a bit of the discussion that was had before about the suitor and the Tsarina's love affairs as a WIP under the Tsarina's character on the Doc
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>>82293288
Eel has dreams apparently
I would make Oyster appeal to greed
Auntie uses sex appeal
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>>82293298
Ah yes, the Suitor just being the self insert that got really popular.
I still like that idea.
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>>82293311
fire is hot
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>>82293327
less self insert and more like the vampire guy form twilight.

just a generically attractive man wooing a blank slate female character that the reader can self insert as
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>>82293288
No, the reef is unique, and I'd prefer to have it be blasphemous in the corner. (However we should talk about similar creatures and their classification.)
As for the first thing, I'd say varied and vague. Simpy being feared as a story tale monster might be enough for some. As for loyalty, I'd sign off on the notion that the King will have precedence over larger entities with clear persona, to a degree anyways. But smaller entities that are dumber might have a little more freedom in alignment. The San Marino or Andorra of Fish as it were.

If I could, I'd offer up an entity I've been thinking on, and potentially something else for precedent of a major and minor entity. Only the latter of which is really relevant to the isles.
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>>82288637
Here, apologies for kicking up this discussion yet again. I think most ofnus feel like the more mysterious aspects of the setting are indeed better off being left mostly unexplored (Fish/Sea gods, Monolith, the bargain etc.) no matter how fun it might be. After all, what pulls in people like me is precisely that unexplored terrain and mystery left to unravel (or not) for GMs and players. I do however feel there is disagreement about how much should be official canon. That said, the most fruitful approach probably is the one we aready kind of take, treating only the compass and maps as canon and the rest as speculation, legends and guesses.

I always have fun exploring a settings mysteries, which is precisely why I think it is best to leave that bit mostly to players, but give the gm enough to not be forced to improvise and later contradict himself.
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>>82293311
>I would make Oyster appeal to greed
The idea that seems to be developing in the docs is that he appeals to greed as in both Material wealth and in wanting to live longer. So that seems to fit.
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>>82293374
yea that doesn't sound like a problem with those caviats, depending on where the cutoff point of 'major' is.
>If I could, I'd offer up an entity I've been thinking on, and potentially something else for precedent of a major and minor entity. Only the latter of which is really relevant to the isles.
Drop us some art for a compass square and a few lines of text. That's all the lore anything needs
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>>82293410
yeah I feel that, it's why I think all that should be known of the more eldritch parts of the setting is what those that worship them believe.
>>
Due to my working and GMing schedule I can't do much midweek, but I want to today make the templates for Novice & Journeyman lifepaths, as well as Backgrounds.

Once the template exists it'll be easy to make more. Would people be interested in helping populate the list for these? Master Paths are a little more complicated so they'll have to wait.
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>>82293660
Give a few examples and I think we anons can help.
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>>82293660
>Would people be interested in helping populate the list for these?
We could try helping with a couple, sure
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>>82293687
>>82293685
I'll get them sorted today It doesn't help I have the flu, so I am slow doing everything.
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>>82293685
>>82293660
I second this, it's a lot easier to come up with ideas when we know what we're trying to make
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>>82293718
Aye aye, I will make a template and 2-3 examples of each.
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>>82293712
> spoiler
Get well soon anon
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>>82293660
Just wanted to say you are an absolute machine, cca, churning out quality content during all hours. What the hell do you work to be able to get away with it and where can I apply
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>>82293417
For reasons I'll just declare the two now while I try to cobble together a decent image.

>[Minor] The Starved Sun
>Does Not Offer
>Only Takes
>Surely just a children's Tale
>Right?

>[Major] The Wandering Sea-Devil
>Wanderer of the Deep
>Messenger of the King
>Carries Gifts & Curses Alike

Fuck me I should invest in a tablet the mouse is killing me.
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>>82293660
how many tiers of lifepaths will there be?

Is it going to be like trainee/unskilled--noob--sort of experienced--experienced--elite--uber elite?
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>>82293841
I think it's Novice - Journeyman - Master
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>>82293781
yea, both of these are good and don't obviously diminish the eldritch nature of the other eldritch things. An influx of things like the Sea-Devil could eventually do it though.

>>82292074
The Alarian Transplant
>Moved to the city for work
>No scruples means he's doing well for himself
>has gotten used to the smell

If anybody wants to punch up that script I'll use it
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>>82293846
Earlier on it sounded like players would be able to switch paths repeatedly though, or do they just keep adding additional master tier lifepaths, plus some novice/journeyman if they want to branch out far from their original "tech tree"?
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>>82293887
maybe
>doesn't hide his oddities
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>>82293887
Then we need to keep things purposeful. As it stands with Masovii next up on the roster, and with Jasen somewhere along, we aren't actually getting much in the way of these Major. Only when we get further down the coast will that come up again. As well for the Sea-Devil I'm just keeping it on the side because it doesn't really have a place anywhere.

Unless we do a Deep Chart at which point that's the only context where he'd be relevant.
>>
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>>82293887
Here's the guy with the skin tone of the Alerian Wench - any thoughts?
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>>82293781
Both sounds small and mysterious enough to not be a setting changer, I like them
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>>82293974
Oooh. I like it. Ties the three Alerians together.
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>>82293781
>>[Minor] The Starved Sun
>>Does Not Offer
>>Only Takes
>>Surely just a children's Tale
>>Right?
Sounds very Sunless Sea. I like it, though depends a lot on how directly derived from it the artwork is.
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>>82293999
Fear not, 'Sun' is more in reference to these fuckers.
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>>82294039
what a beautiful lad
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>>82294049
Eyup. Shame it's difficult to really capture it in abstract terms.
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>>82294177
mocked something up for you
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>>82294255
>>
>>82294177
>>82294255
Both are cool in their own way.
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>>82294255
Damn, this is great. Maybe make the outilies further from teh mout a little less defined? That way it captures some fear of the unknown evoked by >>82294177
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>>82293781
Pretty fucking cool, and as >>82293999 said, this is a good thing
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Hand is dying. I must consume coffee.
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>>82294579
I really dig that one.
Though, if I didn't know I would probably not see starfishy qualities. Don't mind that as it adds to the unknown factor, just felt like it might be of interest to you
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>>82293887
What's the deal with the alerians ? Are they all fish-assholes ?
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>>82295400
they're a principality of Jasentorf that seems to be one of the few places in the world that just out and out fucks with fish stuff. I model it after northern Italy but sometimes there are scales. For anything mroe than that you'd have to ask someone else.
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>>82292594
Nice!
>>82292642
In all truth, Ververia isn't all that small.
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>>82295638
yep, it's about the size of italy. but it's very sparsly populated.
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>>82292594
One question, where did the 93,200 sq miles figure come from? From my calculations, it's closer to 174,000 sq miles (242,000 px * 0.718 sq miles/px)
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>>82295685
>yep, it's about the size of italy. but it's very sparsly populated.

it has got roughly 100 ppl per square mile

in comparison, in 1800, Russia had about 3 ppl/sq mile, about 6 for Norway, or 60 for Denmark
>>
>>82295923
so it's got too many people.
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>>82295970
Not necessarily, that’s on par with 1800 francs. The problem is how swampy it is.
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I think it essential to listen to The Mollusk and Golden Eel when pondering this setting.
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>>82292594
>screeching Lapsari over the border shouting at swamp billies
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>>82295985
France is like, a pretty well developed country with the majority of it being really nice farmland. France should not be the model country for something like that
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>>82295985
I'm saying it has too many people for what it is. It is SUPPOSED to be sparcely populated, at least compared to France
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>>82295923
>it has got roughly 100 ppl per square mile
As said here >>82295737, it should actually be about twice as large in area. Altough I do think that the overall population should be somewhat lower, probably down to 3-4 million.
That way it'd have a desnity of about 20 ppl/sq mile, in contrast to Lapsaria's 43 (Which considering has lot's of farmable land + has begin its industrial revolution, I'd say is fitting)
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>>82296126
agreed
>>
I'm working on a write up for the setting's agriculture that I'll put in the next thread.
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>>82296735
Wiill it be divided by culture/nation? I think theres a section in the Docs about lapsarian economy that briefly touches upon agriculture, but it could surely use some development.
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>>82296748
No, it's going to be fairly general.
The sections are:
>saltwater agriculture, both "shallow" and "deep"
>freshwater agriculture, which will probably be pretty mundane; and will include both grains and various fruit plantations
>livestock, where I'll talk about dugong meat, edible sea cucumbers, and sacred oil caviar

If anyone has any further ideas, that'd be great.
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>>82296777
Sheep. Gotta have sheep
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>>82296777
> No, it's going to be fairly general.
Fair enough. i guess it's ok t put it in the lapsarian section still, as none of this seems to be something that wouldn't exist in Lapsaria.
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>>82296823
Tarcan hands typed this.
I support[/spoilef]
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>>82296825
It's going to be written from the Lapsarian perspective, at least.
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Hey, quick request:
Anyone got a world map?
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>>82296855
Kinda. We did have a world map, but when we finished the local map we realized the scale was way wrong.
This is what we have for now, overimposed with the real world. It was meant to stretch beyond the equator and the 45 south mark, but it got scaled WAY down, so we gained a lot of space to work with
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>>82296931
>>82296855
This is what the last world map we had looked like, and as you can see, there's no way taht southern peninsula reaches way beyond the equator unless the world was significantly smaller than earth. So we gained a lot of space to work with
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>>82297005
Thanks, I just wanted to see what Jesentrof's full coastline looked like.
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>>82297046
>>82297046
>>82297046



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