Do dwarfs have slaves? Or are we expected to believe they built all this shit by themselves?
That's what autism and no sex-life can accomplish.
How would slaves help? Their limiting factor is likely to be food, so unskilled slave labour wouldn't be at all desirable.
>>83207783It took like 100,000 slaves to build the pyramids, and building the Great Wall literally killed a whole dynasty because of the sheer labor needed. Unless the dwarfs have magic, I don't understand how they hollow out mountains and shit without a massive class of laborers.
>>83207859The workforce for the pyramids was largely volunteer based, unpaid but they were in it for the free food and wine
>>83207859>It took like 100,000 slaves to build the pyramidsWrong, they were made with paid labour.>massive class of laborersThat would be the dorfs, yes. Slaves are just a worse version of regular labour.
>>83207916>aye, King wants a mountain carved to look like his face>what's in it for me, lad?>ale on tap>HAND ME MY PICK
>>83207859american education, everyone
>>83207684>slavesYou mean you force someone to labor for you? Why would you need to force them? Why wouldn't you do it? I don't get it
>Or are we expected to believe they built all this shit by themselves?Yes.
Having some slaves instead of free people doesn't make a society more productive; even for intensive labour like this, because Dwarves have great endurance and love this kind of work. And since they're mostly male, the male population mostly consists of married men wanting to feed their family, young men wanting to prove themselves in order to become respected and married, and single workaholics who basically married their craft.
>>83207985Its a lazy non dwarf thing, pay it no mind. the lesser races are like that.
>>83207684>Do dwarfs have slaves?Sure.
>>83207916>>83207957tbf, thats somewhat like the lower rungs of whaling ship hands. You would be on a multi year voyage and a large part of it was just consistant food and water, which is subtracted from the total after the voyage ends and you are left with only a little bit extra. But still, its room and board and food and cloths for a few years.
>>83207859>It took like 100,000 slaves to build the pyramidsuhhh source? everyone knows it was the aliens you retard
>>83207684>you can’t build things without slaves
>>83207684American education strikes again. Think idiot, think. They can use magic, they can use machines, they can use skilled labor and lots of time.
>>83207684The concept is somewhat foreign to dwarves, who are compelled to work in a way most humans do not understand. Conversely, dwarves can understand, abstractly, that humans generally feel compelled to leisure instead and, given that fact, that humans might compel others to work on their behalf. Dwarves do not value hard work as humans would understand it, and they don't view humans as lazy. They do not consider sloth a sin because it never really enters their minds to be slothful. That said, dwarven societies tend to have extremely strict caste structures. Some types of labor are considered more honorable than others, and the more honorable castes include professional warriors who often use violence to keep the lesser castes doing the "right" kind of work. From the perspective of less educated humans, this looks like slavery, but the dwarves know that some castes are just better suited for digging, or for the cultivation of fungi, or for sanitation, and that if they weren't working at that they would be working at something else and probably doing it all the wrong way.
>>83209183Enjoy your weekend, wagie
tunnelling is just a jobs creation program
>>83207684>Do dwarfs have slaves?No. They *are* slaves. All dorf personality traits make them, once broken, perfect slaves.
>>83209839Elven faggy hands posted this.
>>83207684dwarfs live for fucking ages and the male to female ratio is usually that males outweigh females, so instead of pussy chasing dwarfs can spend time on stuff like this
>>83209958>Anon gets charmed and works himself to death
>>83207684What setting are we talking here? Which game?You play games, right?
>>83207985>You mean you force someone to labor for you? Why would you need to force them?Unpopular opinion but slavery, though immoral, is entirely rational for a pre-modern civilization. Think of what happens when you conquer another tribe or civilization, the women are useless cocksleeves and are used as such but what do you do with the men? Barring situations where you can subjugate them in a non-intensive manner like getting their leader to swear an oath of fealty or something along those lines, the rational option would be to kill them and get rid of a threat. Problem solved, but productivity wasted. You could instead be merciful and lock all of them up, but that would require feeding them and dedicating manpower to guarding them. If you're going through all that effort you might as well go ahead and make them productive by forcing them to perform labor. Even the Allies after WW2, the alleged "good guys", used German PoWs as forced labor by applying this exact reasoning.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labor_of_Germans_after_World_War_IIAgain: not saying slavery is morally good, just saying there's a very rational reason why nearly every civilization prior to modernity applied slavery in one form or another with greater or lesser severity.>>83208850>Having some slaves instead of free people doesn't make a society more productive>InsteadWhat about "in addition to"? The fact that you conquered a tribe or civilization doesn't mean your own non-combatant men vanish. It just means you have more hands to do more work, especially the dirty or dangerous work it's hard to find volunteers for (like in post-WW2 France where they used Germans to clear minefields...based?). And then there's Rome, proving that you can have too much of a good thing with slaves pricing poor freemen out of the market and forcing them to the cities to collect gibsmedats.
>>83207923>pharaonic egypt>wagesShiggy diggy
Clearly OP has never played dwarf fortress.
>>83210363I've had dwarf fortress on my desktop for a while, how do I get into it?
>>83209839>Both live underground >One has much more inate power compared to the other It actual makes sense if dwarfs were a slave race to drows. Maybe habe it that a group of them managed to be the only surviors and their gods gifted them the knowledge to forge and smith.
>>83210377I got into it by following the wiki guide step-by step for one fort, then making my own and freestyling it. Resist the urge to make a giant world with a three millenia long history or a massive embark site, your computer will thank you and the game will run faster.
>>83210278I'm not talking morality, I'm asking what the point of it is. Do you get other humans to chew your food for you to? If you want to go somewhere do you force another human to pick you up and walk you there yourself? the rational option would be to kill them and get rid of a threat. Problem solved, but productivity wasted.That's why you bury them under the mushrooms retard. Or do you need to force another human to come up with an idea before you use it?>you might as well go ahead and make them productive by forcing them to perform labor.You want ENEMIES to do labor? Why don't we crown them king and open up the taps for them while we're at it? I knew humans were greedy motherfuckers but geez you can't all be this stupid
>>83210943>You want ENEMIES to do labor?With oversight? As opposed to just letting them sit with their thumbs up their asses? Absolutely. Now of course the oversight would require native manpower, and slaves are less productive than paid labor, but if we assume that you need one overseer to keep ten slaves in line then the practice does pay for itself. >the rational option would be to kill them and get rid of a threatWell, we do agree that in a pre-modern situation in 90% of cases the only options are kill or enslave.
>>83207684Dwarves willing enslave themselves to build things like this
>>83209839>this palisade won't endure any proper attack, it's shameful to build such a flimsy structure. A pathetic work for a pathetic race>these elves are terrible foremen, Old Man Grugnir would have smashed my head with his hammer for carrying logs one by one like a kid>I told them we could make it out of rock and 15 meters tall, but he just kept whipping me. His loss.
>>83207684For my own setting, Dwarves do practice slavery in the form of forced labor from dwarven criminals. That said they're put to only the most menial and basic tasks and sometimes it's mostly just breaking ground so the more skilled, volunteer/paid laborers can start. This is because, by and large, dwarves believe good work comes from those with pride for their work, they don't trust slaves because what pride does someone who had so little as to break the laws of the land and allow themselves to be captured (dwarven justice system ALWAYS offers suicide for the convicted as an option. Noteably only the convicted) and then continue to live as a bottom rung of society? Or at worst suspect slaves would be motivated to deliberately sabotage more important jobs.
>>83207859>without a massive class of laborers.Their entire race consists of skilled laborers you dumb fuck.
>>83207684Duergar do in every edition of dnd they've been in, as do Chaos Dwarves from Warhammer Fantasy, and so does the Theran Empire from Earthdawn which is 90% Dwarven.It depends on the setting.
>>83210992Why would you allow unskilled workers to participate in critical infrastructure projects that, if failed, can literally collapse the mountain on your head? Humans are truly dumb.
>>83211503This. If they had skill they wouldn't be slaves. The unskilled need not apply.
>>83210992>oversight>paid laborEvery time you confront humans they start making up bullshit gibberish to pretend like they won. >but if we assume that you need one overseer to keep ten slaves in line then the practice does pay for itself.>Dude just find ten people and get them to do XDDDDYou started with saying this is more productive, and then say this shit. Everytime I see a stone that needs carved I need to get ANOTHER ten humans to do it? No wonder you can't believe people actually accomplish anything>Well, we do agree that in a pre-modern situation in 90% of cases the only options are kill or enslave.This is the other thing I don't get. Now you're inventing wars just so you don't have to cut some fucking stone? You don't think this is getting a little ridiculous?Whatever, do whatever you want, I've got shit to do. And unlike you I don't need to go find someone and make them do it for me
Floyd Mayweather really is a dwarf, isn't he?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TveKShvWKKU
>>83207923You were there, right?
>>83207684It's fucking fantasy, mate.
>>83210325>If you aren't paid in the US dollars, you aren't receiving a wage
>>83211561>>83211503id imagine there are plenty of other tasks that the average untrained peasant slave can do without much training. Example: digging ditches, farming crops, mining shit. And even if they were untrained, just get some dude to train them for you. What are your slaves gonna do? Refuse to work or learn these skills? Most people would rather live in chains than die free. There's always a risk that a slave can fuck up drastically in a building project or incite a rebellion but those issues can just be resolved with a watchful army of overseers and slave trainers.
>>83210278Rome (and AmeriKKKa) fucked up by treating slaves as commodities. You gotta resettle them en masse on your frontiers and treat the entire village as an open air prison untill everyone just forgets they're descded from foreign slaves
>>83214913>there are plenty of other tasks that the average untrained peasant slave can do without much training. Example: digging ditches, farming crops, mining shit.Why would we put unwilling creatures to do work we dwarves can do ten times better while enjoying doing said work?
>>83214913>dude just retrain skilled dwarven artisans to be slave drivers and overseers and use countless dwarfhours training the slaves to do a job that the dwarven laborers you spent time retraining and training slaves could have already finished by the time the slaves are half way through the workAbsolutely brilliant idea. I always knew too much sunlight would melt your brain.
>>83207684Dwarfs have goblin slaves.
>>83207684>Do dwarfs have slaves? Or are we expected to believe they built all this shit by themselves?Just because your race is incapable of great feats of architecture without exploiting someone else, doesn't mean everyone is.
>>83208850>And since they're mostly male,Tell me more of your world lore.
>>83214913>watchful army of overseers and slave trainersOr you could just have those guys do the work instead and cut out all the problems of slaves.
>>83209839Notice that even in the depths of forced chattel-slavery by sadomasochistic supremacists, they still have their beards. Forcing a dwarf to work is one thing. He'll try to escape if he can, kill his overseer if he lets his guard down, and might not cooperate at first but that's manageable, expected like anything else. Attempting to shave a dwarf's beard is another. The moment his stunted, angular mind wraps around what his captor intends to do with that razor every muscle in the dwarf's body is from that moment on going to be singularly dedicated to the violent dismemberment of them and their next of kin to the third generation. They will sit in the frigid snow and endure torture beyond comprehension without moving a muscle but to spit and swear oaths out of sheer, seething hate. If a dwarf should be shaved and escape to return to his hold and tell them that his beard was shaved, that hold will take on an eternal, militant grudge that won't end until every last dwarf infant is put to the sword or everyone the shaver has ever known is dead on a roaring pyre. Enslaving dwarves is one thing. Shaving them is another and it's altogether easier to let them keep the beards.
>>83210325Not so much paid in money, but paid in beer and bread. We've found graffiti and storehouses that corroborate this.>>83211832Retard
>>83211048I absolutely love the idea that the racial compulsion of producing the best quality in everything they do is so deeply ingrained in the Dwarven racial psyche, that even if they are taken captives and put to work on something like fortifications, they will craft the shit out of those fortification even if they are for their sworn enemy. Or that they can't do shoddy work even with hasty projects.>"Thank the gods you managed to escape from the enemy camp brother Brux">"You should see the escape tunnel we constructed with good Druk, I put my heart and soul into crafting those arches, and the calculations for where we broke ground outside the camp were spot on.">"I believe you. That iron gate you and yours manufactured for the enemy is a testament to your ability and an inspiration to our troops as we retake the keep. Shame about having to break it down though.">"It is what it is.">"It is what it is."
>>83207684>Do dwarfs have slaves?Yes, other Dwarfs.
>>83217288>compulsion of producing the best quality in everythinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_C86o5dE_c&t=14
>>83209046Only in a bad season; most private whaling concerns paid men on shares because yields could vary heavily, and this system allowed them to reduce crew pay costs in bad seasons and only had to pay out super-premiums when they had a super-premium season. Being a junior hand could occasionally mean a big payday since the smallest share on the ship is still a lot of cash when you got the god-haul of spermacetti.
>>83216942I was thinking of Tolkien's Dwarves as the archetype modern fantasy Dwarves are derived from. In Middle-earth, Dwarves are about two thirds male and one third female.
>>83217288lol. Have a bump.
>>83210278>germans being forced to workhow horrifying that must have been for them
>>83207684We was dwarves and shit
>>83211048>these elves are terrible foremen, Old Man Grugnir would have smashed my head with his hammer for carrying logs one by one like a kidI like the idea of a lazy dwarf who doesn't mind being a slave because it's way less work than he had under his old apprenticeship.
>>83211503>I saved 10,000 dwarf hours by getting slaves to do it>Now I'll just have to spend 20,000 checking thier work and redoing it all to get it up to Dwarf standards
Because slaves are ineficient, only when you are totally undermanned would make a lick of sense, and even then you have to invest resources so they don't burn your shit and kill you in your sleep. Having Wagies is a lot better and cheaper in the long run.
>>83220798>a dwarf wanting to work less
>ON THE CARE AND MAINTAINANCE OF DWARF SLAVESDistributed for free with the purchase of one or more dwarf slaves in Kar Karond. >Congratulations on the purchase of your dwarf flesh! Here is a short informational guide on the proper keeping of dwarves. If followed properly, these low maintenance creatures well serve for decades!>Dwarves are violent stubborn creatures, and are exceedingly difficult to capture. As no dwarf would surrender to captivity while still capable of fighting they have to be gathered from the unconscious and grievously wounded from battlefields.>One might think such stubborn creatures would be impossible to break, but it is in fact the opposite.>Simply leave an unfinished poorly done task and the tools to continue it within easy reach of the dwarf. >Most dwarves will be overwhelmed by the desire to fix the issue within hours. Even the most stubborn dwarf can only resist the urge for a few days. >During this time they may scream, shake and even display full body convulsions, do not worry, this is a perfectly normal part of the breaking process. >Once the task is started, the dwarf is the most manageable slave as owner could have. They may squirrel away lock picks and weapons to make an escape during this time, but are almost incapable of making an escape attempt while the job is unfinished. >It's not uncommon for dwarf slaves to escape and sneak past their handlers to continue working.>The greatest risk in dwarf ownership comes in the brief period between tasks. During this time it's recommended that the dwarf be carefully guarded and if possible sedated. >See part two for beard maintenance
>>83221038I figure they have to be pretty deviant for a dwarf is they were captured alive. Kinda reminds me of Arcanum. Where dwarves has steam engines for centuries, but didn't use them for much, because they didn't really get the concept of a labor saving device.
They don’t know about the rock shaper shamen of the dwarves clans?
>>83211584I am loving the characterisation of dwarfs in this thread
>>83220834>not to mention having to organize holding cells and pay for food for the slavesSlavery exists only to justify itself and the sadistic desires of evil creatures
>>83214913This is why your ditches fill in within ten years, your burrows collapse in next to no centuries and your crop yields and soil quality is poor to pathetic.Do the job properly or do it ten times as often and still have a half-arsed job.Does your weak heart not get the blood to that lofty head?
>>83207684Dwarves would never have slaves, they have far better morals then that.https://youtu.be/ugCE-LyxhOA
>>83207859Excuse me? When did American southerners build pyramids? I think you're mistaken there anon, when Americans are the ones who effectively invented slave labor and introduced it to the world stage.
>>83222308I've met people who believe this.
>>83207916>they did it for free
>>83222348Still less stupid than internships being paid in experience.
>>83222308>Excuse me? When did American southerners build pyramids?Before Columbus.
>>83222308I bet you feel pretty dumb right about now
>>83207684>Do dwarfs have slaves?Thry don't have to. They have entire underclass of 'clanless' who are not allowed to forge metals, hew stones or trade in gold.
>>83207684Imagine not shaping rock into glorious artistry with your own two hands. Imagine thinking you need slave labor to force people to work, instead of grabbing a pick and doing it yourself.Imagine being a fucking human.
>>83222978You will never, ever be a elf.
>>83223082Eh, these silly elves couldn't even be bothered to carve their own caves or dig their own oh so precious silver.Next time some uppity elven "king" wishes to show you the magestic beauty of his underground court, not that he will let you in into "his" forest, remember who carved those holes in the living rock and who mined his precious gems and jewels.
>>83207684Do slaves have slaves? Or are we expected to believe they built all this shit by themselves?
>>83216726Did I fucking say that dwarves should enslave others to do their mastery-tier smithing and building projects instead of doing that shit themselves? Most dwarves in fantasy settings would be the perfect slaves since they enjoy hard labor. I was talking in general about the whole idea of how owning slaves would work, not if dwarves can reasonably own slaves that can do theoretically do all their shit for them. However, I could see an disgraced clan of dwarves or duegrar owning slaves purely for sadistic reasons. Probably use them as sacrifices, torture victims, meat shields, target practice.
>>83222205Wtf are you talking about? Do you think the Egyptians built the motherfucking pyramids on their own without the help of thousands of jewish slave labour? Those things lasted for thousands of years and you're telling me that slaves can't do quality work? Fuck outta here
>>83225036Jews didn't build the pyrammids.
>>83225036Back to /pol/.
>>83225261>Chaos DwarfAre you ready to recieve the blessings of Hashut?
>>83207684Autism, clan loyalty, pride in your work, cultural work ethic, etc. Commies like you wouldn't understand.
>>83225179I don't even browse /pol/, ya dingus. I'm just saying there's a reason ancient civilizations utilized slavery because it worked for them, regardless of the morality of it.
>>83225036>egyptians can't possibly have built the pyramids>jews did itWhat the fuck are you even saying?>slaves can't do quality workWhether they can or not, they don't.
>>83225176alright, i'll admit i'm no historian. I looked it up on google, and apparently, the Egyptians conscripted their own people to build the pyramids. I assumed they used Jewish slaves because of the old Christian tale of Moses. Still, I think my point still stands. Slavery was widespread across much of ancient civilization, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out how useful slaves are even if you don't use them to build monuments, homes, tombs, walls, etc.
>>83225686fun fact: the old testament makes 0 mention of the sphinx or the pyramids
>>83207684Thematically something along the lines of Golems or Automatons would seem more appropriate for Dwarves to use, as it makes use of their crafting skill, while not relying on food as fuel.Though I wouldn't be suprised if slavery is practised on a small scale as punishment for serious crimes, or as form of indentured servitude.
>>83225727i'd really oughta stop getting my history from popular culture. I guess I must have gotten that idea from The Prince of Egypt movie. Thanks, Dreamworks.
>>83207859>because of the sheer labor needed.wasn't it more because the chinese are retarded?
>>83207684They're autistic and immensely long lived, I can believe it.
>>83209839> once brokenNever happens.
>>83225686So what do you use them for then?
>>83222452What sort of divine magics does the Bass Pro God dole out to his followers?
>>83207684Of course they do. But filthy slaves won't be allowed to touch the hallowed stone or mine the mountain. They get the worse jobs, like collecting guano and growing crops.
>>83207684Dwarves do live longer than humans, and depending on setting that might stretch out to 10,000+ years. Or even eternity.Depending on setting dwarves also are naturally gifted with the ability to be more precise without as many tools as humans use.And finally depending on setting Dwarves are allowed to go on longer without need for as much rest, sleep, or even food. DoS: They might not need any of those things at all.
>>83226120Honestly sounds like it is rather the Dwarves that are perfect to be slaves.
>>83210278>entirely rational for a pre-modern civilizationBitch, we still do use slavery, it's just that it was outsourced to China and private prisons.
>>83226192I'd argue most of us are slaves, it's just that the (physical) chains are pretty light.
>>83226254Your argument would be retarded, but intelligence is primarily nature not nurture so it's not your fault.
If dwarves are the mountains spirits, and elves are forest spirits, why do elves live longer? You'd think that something as immortal as a mountain would last more than a bunch of trees.
>>83226294t. jew, probably
>>83225857from what i remember seeing on tv like 15 years ago it was a really fucked project and if you died on the job they would literally throw your corpse into a pit and use it for the foundation of the next section
>>83225965are you asking me that because you genuinely can't think of what you would do if you had a slave? Or are you insinuating that I would actually want to own slaves if I could? Because I find the whole practice despicable, but if I were someone who wanted a slave, and I lived in a time and place where slavery was encouraged and legal..... I'd probably get an educated house slave or something. Someone to drive me around, give me a massage, do my taxes, cook my food, etc. Menial chores and shit. I wouldn't abuse them or anything, they'd be like a friend, except I'd own them.
>>83207684noyes>why?because they did
>>83226254https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yUMIFYBMncI saw your interview this month. Great job.
>>83207684Lower dwarves and halflings farm on the surface. They are owned by the fortress-state rather than any individual. Food is distributed via command economy rather than market. This enforces compliance to the Hold's values, those that do not conform do not eat, but are free to be banished at any time.
Slave labor is expensive and unreliable. Youbuse it because it guarantees you have labor. Dwarves would not use slaves. Even to haul away mining tilling. It is an affront to labor. Which dwarves pride themselves in. Duergar might, because the deep underworld makes people evil.
>>83226777>Duergar might, because the deep underworld makes people evil.This seems idiotic. Historical slavery is almost exclusively the opposite of >they only did it because they were evilIt was overly compassionate lefties who pleaded with the military leaders for a different solution because they didn't want to execute all the people who inhabited their conquered lands.Why would an evil person give the time of day to how the losers of a battle feel?
>>83226878You don't see good people making slaves. That's just not how it works, it's always some psychopath or sub-psychopath.
>>83226911>You don't see good people making slaves.I was just being autistic. I know it happened frequently in the real world but in fiction it's stereotypically limited to evil people.
>>83227218>in fiction it's stereotypically limited to evil peopleNTA, but have you ever watched some Isekai?
>>83227242Like when John Carter liberated the Black Martians slaves by teaching them the error of their ways?
>>83227378It's been years since I read the first book, but wasn't John literally a Slave owner? I remember the book called him a true 'southern gentleman' and mentioned how even the slaves adored him.
>>83227242Isekai protagonists are not exactly moral paragons
>>83227743Being a slave liberator so your current slaves adore you is iconic isekai.
>>83207684Not slaves, just wage-slaves.
>>83207859>slaves to build the pyramids
>>83227218Keeping slaves is an evil practice. There is no grey area.
>>83231389>There is no grey area.Of course. It's either fully good or fully evil. Just mostly Good in real life.
>>83207684>dwarves>using slaves for buildingno dwarven mason or blacksmith would see himself letting slaves handle stone or metal. slaves are for domestic work like cleaning, cooking and sewing. valuable skilled laves MAY be allowed to do pottery or leatherworking
>>83207916>>83222348>>83222408To be completely fair, I'm pretty sure that the pyramids were built BEFORE currency had been invented, so the bread and beer WAS their pay
>>83226020Your beer is always at the perfect chill for relaxing on the lake.
>>83231828While our only surviving archaeological evidence is from a few centuries after the pyramids were completed, it's not unreasonable to assume that their beer and bread token system was innovated during and explicitly because of those large construction projects.It's not dollar bills, but it could certainly have been bread tokens as currency. https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/591207That's an excellent thing to steal for an RPG, by the way.
How many Dorfs die of karoshi?
>>83232514Not many if any. The psychological effects aren't the same due to their slightly inhuman minds. The physical wear and tear is mitigated by their dorf physiology up to a point. In effect once they hit their stride they can maintain it for a very long time.
>>83226020Your stock pond is always full and your truck never breaks down.
>>83207684Build? No, not at all, slave hands wouldn't know how to caress the stone. Now grow the crops on the surface? That sounds about the right job for slaves to have.
>>83207684Dwarves would be Insulted by the insinuation that the work was done by anything Other that dwarven hands. No, they just take their time. Dwarven engineering usually takes centuries but dwarves are nothing if not patient.
>>83236758>letting slaves handle the crops that are used for brewing Literally the second last place dwarves would ever use slaves right after manufacturing.
>>83222942>>83222954>white Christians invented, propagated, expanded and defended the concept of racial chattel slavery in America>but some Jews did it too so we didnu nuffin wrong Cletus!
>>83225567>describes Soviet working class culture >calls other commies
>>83237680they had none of that except clan loyalty *maybe*
>>83238631Loyalty born of fear is not loyalty, it is obedience. Loyalty can only come from respect and faith.
>>83222219boic bravesoul is literally about how dwarves are entirely capable of being evil bastards and how it nearly wiped them out
>>83207702>autism and no sex-lifeSo... Dwarves?
>>83231896Issue is a single bread token ism’t shit. How many saltine crackers is a chicken worth? What about a horse? Bread and other goods would be staples of trade but only in their general use forms, you trade bread by the loaf not the slice, or more generally you would trade flour as it’s easier to transport and any idiot can make bread.
>>83222954>Only actual sources are demographics>Source for the actual claim is pg 385 of a book written by some guy named RodriguezWow you sure showed me
>>83237664>factually wrong statement>non sequitur follow-upWork on your bait.
>>83207985>Why would you need to force them? Why wouldn't you do it? I don't get itClearly you have never had to do shit like pick crops by hand, dig trenches, or lay fucking tile flooring, hate that shit with a passion and will ALWAYS just pay the money for a professional to do it if you don't understand that getting people to do things you don't want to do is understandble.
>>83245772>Floor tilesWell there's you problem. Use slabs of granite, do the job right once, never have to do it again. Every time you walk over them you can look down on them with the satisfaction of knowing that it'll never have to be done again.
>>83207957That's hilariously close to what it was most likely like
>>83207684>Or are we expected to believe they built all this shit by themselves?Dude that's the whole point of dwarves. That's one of their iconic things. What do we all know about dwarves?1. Beards2. Short3. Stubborn4. Ungodly work ethic5. Ubiquitous scottish accentIf you remove an elf's pointy ears, they cease to be an elf. If you remove a dwarf's ability to create great works, they cease to be a dwarf.
>>83248521I prefer to make my dwarves Russian.
>>83245772But why would you force unskilled workers to do those jobs when there is someone who enjoys doing it?
>>83237664Actually, chattel slavery dates back to at the very least the days of the Roman Republic and likely to the Bronze Age, predating Christianity entirely. In fact, the african Mali empire was the biggest slave trader in the world and laid the groundwork for the triangle trade. The only thing Chistians did was make it racially motivated. Christianity is somewhat anti-slavery so slave owners had to go through severe mental gymnastic to justify it. On the other hand, Christianity also pushed for the abolition of slavery so I'd say it's a net neutral in the end.
Is there any kind of labor a dwarf does not enjoy doing? I can't for the life of me figure one task a dwarf wouldn't do.
>>83207684If we're talking Tolkien dwarves, then they weren't allowed to come out from underground for a very long time until the Elves emerged
>>83207916They were paid in food and beer. Especially beer. Apparently one barrel of beer per day per worker.
>>83251448How strong beer are we talking?
>>83250357yeah but my jewish professor told me to hate white people
>>83251465Piss poor bear barely alcholic. But it had a good deal of calories.
dwarves are supposed to be master artisans and professionals with a higher understanding of machinery than other civilizations so yes we are supposed to believe that. They probably have a worker class or underclass though.
>>83253376>They have a ruling over classFixed that for you. A working dwarf is the norm, and royalty the bizarre exception.
>>83250357Nah, Christians were pretty okay with slavery - as soon as it's not fellow Christians who are slaves. Selling people of le wrong religions to Turks was kosher.
>>83253376Dwarves have a cultural love of work though, so their workers would probably be more like the nobility socially speaking. If anything, their underclass would likely be comprised of people considered to incompetent to be allowed to work on anything of import.>Never buy anything from those folks my son, their masonry is so shoddy you'd be better off commissioning a human.
>>83207859Keep in mind that those slaves only lived for a couple of decades. Dwarves can live for centuries, One dwarf could spend his life doing what it would take a hundred slaves to do, just taking longer and getting much better at it than what any mayfly human could do.
>>83253630The underclass would probably be the military to be honest. Anyone content in standing around instead of doing work must be wrong in the head.
>>83253823I always imagine most dwarves to be warriors; they have a craft or profession skill they practice most of the time, but can slap on armor and weapons and head off to fight if need be.
>>83253630I think the nobility would be engineers and supervisors, not workers per se. And stuff like Goldsmiths. A Class monopoly of some trades too.
>>83210278A-anon you d-d-do know that most people didn't get enslaved when they got conquered right? r-right?
>>83210992>Well, we do agree that in a pre-modern situation in 90% of cases the only options are kill or enslave.Anon please stop listening to /his/
>>83207684No they disdain other race's poor work so make machines instead. Evil dwarves have slaves out of pure spite
>>83253598The "nobility" are the foremen and logistical experts. They allocate and arnage the movement of resources. "Royalty" are the overseers who set policy and dicate what the noblity should be allocating towards as things move on the level of nations.There are no idle rich.The neareset thing to idle members of society dorfdom has are officers in times of peace. Even then they run drills, make contingency plans, inspect for readiness in case of emergency, go over old reports and if all else fails they have to resort to athletic sports.
>>83255831>In times of Peace, Officers...I like your list, but may I recommend...>Full-scale wargames between holds to try and find weaknesses in their defenses so they can be even better.
>>83255927That cold be a point of argument between holds. There are some holds that see it as "outsider foolishness" to attack allies even if it's just a training game to say nothing of the possibility of accidental death and the weregild laws. Other holds see it as only sensible and it should be considered a sport if anything.
>>83207684What happens when an Dwarf fucks a pig...? AN ORC!!! There is your answer. And ya, the Dwarfs don't want to talk about it.
>>83226020>>83231844>>83234304If anyone ever Peacefully Protests their pyramid, the vandals will be flayed alive by off-brand tomb kings.
>>83207684The dwarves are the slaves