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You are Alberich: serial killer, familiar to two magi, and dubiously relative of the gods. Since being transformed into a superhuman, magic-fueled warrior, you have been contracted to protect one magus, seen him die, and been bound to a new one.
On the night of Thursday, November 14, 2019, you found yourself in a dimly lit stone basement, standing in the middle of a magic circle. You had been summoned as a Servant, a legendary warrior contracted after their death to fight alongside a magus for the Holy Grail, their existence sustained by the mystic energy of their summoner. In your case you were conned by Judas Iscariot into taking his place despite not being a legendary warrior but that's neither here nor there at this point. The magic empowered you enough to fill the role, anyway.
After spending a few days learning about the Holy Grail War and your surroundings, you and your Master, Jean-Pierre Vaisset, had your first skirmish with the enemy: a complete defeat. The enemy Servant outclassed you utterly, and the only reason you survived was that her Master ordered her to retreat once he'd killed Vaisset.
With Vaisset dead and your supply of mystic energy cut off, you were prepared to fade into the aether when you discovered to your surprise that he'd prepared a backup plan to transfer his Command Spells to his sister in the event of his death. This transfer of authority was immediately followed by a physical transference, and you appeared in the girl's bedroom. Thus you found yourself breaking the news of her older brother's death to Shijou Ayaka, your new Master, in the middle of the night, only a few moments after you learned of it yourself.
She took it surprisingly well, and in the day since then the two of you have successfully planned and executed the defeat of your first enemy Servant, Rider. Through a mystic technique of Ayaka's, you were able to absorb the miraculous power of his holy sword, Durandal, after his death, and with it in hand you met the gods in a dream. They have high hopes for you, and in your quest for the Holy Grail things are looking up. Five Servants remain to fall by your sword.

Previous thread:
>>3566389


Suptg Archive:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Sweets-Loving%20QM

Status Information:
https://pastebin.com/qsKX4p5b
>>
Shijou Manor, Tokyo - November 17, Sunday, 8:00
You must take victory in the Holy Grail War if you're to survive. You're certain of that fact, and it is the premise on which all of your other plans must rest. It isn't enough to dismantle the ritual, as the Emiyas want to, motivated by a fear of the evil which they say is sealed within the Grail. If it ceases to be, you'll have nothing left to sustain your existence, and you'll fade away without a trace. Such a fate is quite unacceptable for a man of your quality.

Even with that conflict of interest in mind, though, you find yourself drawn to the idea of working with the Emiya family, if only temporarily. They hold a potent tool in their Servant, outside of the seven summoned for the Holy Grail War, and whatever the true natures of Emiya Shirou and Sakura are they both have incredible supplies of mystic energy themselves. Perhaps it's only your lust for control, but the idea of allowing such a powerful group to intervene in the Holy Grail War without your oversight feels repugnant. Thus, you resolve to raise the topic of an alliance with the Emiya family again in your next conversation with Ayaka. If all goes well, the two of you can use the Emiyas' power to more easily destroy the five remaining enemy Servants and Ayaka can continue sacrificing them to you in the process; by the time the Emiyas have realized you don't intend to dismantly the Holy Grail, you should be too powerful for them to overcome.

With your long-term plan for the War thus decided, your mind turns to immediate prospects, and the implications of the powers revealed in your trance. All three of the miraculous powers of Heiligöffnungschwert sound incredible, but what intrigues you most right now is the manifestation of your aligned elements, Nothingness and Void. If you want to take advantage of that, though, you'll have to do some more reading in the Shijou library.

Finding your body a bit sluggish after the strange trance you went into to learn about Heiligöffnungschwert, you get up and stretch again before making your way back to the library room. If Ayaka's gotten up, you haven't heard her, but she probably hasn't. After 20 hours on her feet, you can't blame the poor girl for sleeping past eight in the morning. So it's in a silent house that you slip into the library and track down the magic texts you studied previously. Sinking into one of the room's deeply padded armchairs, you begin to read...

>[ ] Forms of Power, a catalog of various sigils and geometric formations instrumental in ritual magic.

>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.

>[ ] Introduction to Structural Energy Systems, which deals with magic circuits, leylines, bounded energy fields, and related topics.

>[ ] Look for something else (Write in what sort of magic you're looking for)
>>
And while we consider that choice, and Alberich catches up on his reading, enjoy the sights and sounds of another's planning...
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.
>>
Einzbern Tower, Tokyo, Top Floor Penthouse - November 17, Sunday, 10:00

Nobody could claim that the penthouse was anything less than luxurious. Occupying the entirety of the Einzbern Tower's top floor, it was a sprawling abode filled with antique furniture dating back to the best days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. In size and style, the Einzberns' workers had done everything they could to replicate the atmosphere of their mistress' palatial home. Nevertheless, Liliesviel was furious. She paced back and forth in front of the living room's large picture window, passing heedlessly by a beautiful view of the city for which the girl had no eyes; long pearly hair and the voluminous frills of her dress bouncing in synchronized time with her steps. Finally, she stopped and whirled away from the window, asking "Isn't this ridiculous, Stachel?"

The recipient of this comment was one of Liliesviel's two personal maids, distinguished above the other servants by their status as high-grade homunculi, Stachel. She had no second name. Standing impassively motionless a few feet from her mistress, the maid answered in a toneless voice, "It is ridiculous, Lady Liliesviel."

"Oh," Liliesviel pouted irritably, "Can't you at least try to act like a conversation partner? I haven't even told you what it is yet!"

"Whatever you assert is ridiculous certainly is so," the maid answered confidently. "An inferior one would never dissent. What is it that is ridiculous, Lady Liliesviel?"

The smaller girl sighed, casting a profoundly disappointed gaze on her more developed servant. An outside observer, looking at their faces and bodies, might have thought the pair were two bickering sisters, or an extremely indulgent mother and her daughter, but this impression was only an illusion created by the two girls' peculiar origins. Stachel would appear just about twenty years old regardless of her age, as would all the homunculus maids turned out by the House of Einzbern's sophisticated manufacturing process. That Stachel was only a few years old showed in her reactions, however. No amount of Einzbern mental training and accelerated growth could do away with a tendency towards mental simplicity that obstinately appeared in the most intensely focused combat models.

"I'm talking about my living arrangements," Liliesviel said with exasperation. "Onee-chan got a castle in that town where the fifth ritual took place! Why do I have to sit around in some tower room? Doesn't Grandfather have any faith in me?"

While Liliesviel was explaining her complaint to the first, another maid entered the room, bearing a sealed letter. Liliesviel promptly rounded on her, continuing, "what do you think, Stengel? Isn't it absurd, the difference between my treatment and Onee-chan's?"

"If I may be allowed to express my humble views," the second maid said, head bowed low.

"Yes, yes, go on," Liliesviel answered, waving a dismissive hand.
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Introduction to Structural Energy Systems, which deals with magic circuits, leylines, bounded energy fields, and related topics.
>>
With her head still bowed so as to keep here eyes from meeting her mistress', Stengel continued, "I am certain that the Lord has the highest confidence in you, Lady Liliesviel. He knows that you are the final, truly perfect successor, here at last to complete the Heaven's Feel, and that you therefore require less support than your predecessor."

Her emotions ever volatile, Liliesviel whimsically shifted from an angry pout to a teasing smirk and raised an admonishing finger before her maid's eyes. "Now now," she chided, "you shouldn't lie just to placate me." Then in a more serious tone, continued, "I wish I could believe you. If Grandfather didn't think I needed any support, why did he send that Alberich?"

At this point the first maid interjected again, speaking with the same emotionless voice as before. "Perhaps there was no space to construct a castle in this city."

"Maybe you're right, Stachel," Liliesviel said with a sigh. "It's not as if they could go out into the 'woods on the outskirts of town' and build one. Still, it is infuriating having to spend my days in this horrid modern tower."

"Ahem," the other maid, Stengel, reminded her mistress of her presence.

"Go ahead, Stengel," Liliesviel assented. "What is it?"

"On the subject of this... 'Alberich' character, I have a report to deliver." Stengel's voice dripped suspicion as she mentioned Alberich's name. Though her mistress had decided to put suspicion aside regarding the fellow and Stachel would go along with whatever Lady Liliesviel said, Stengel still had her doubts. Why would Lord Acht have sent another homunculus, and one with such bizarre capabilities at that, into the Holy Grail War without informing Lady Liliesviel? Could such a homunculus have been created, not only without Lady Liliesviel knowing, but even kept a secret from the servants? It was a mystery, to be sure.

The innocent smile Liliesviel showed at her words gave Stengel pause, though, as the girl said, "A report, lovely! Maybe we can find out what Grandfather had in mind for him, then. Let's hear it, don't just hand over the paper." Was it right to question the situation, and dash Liliesviel's hopes of a new ally in the Heaven's Feel? Was it proper to trust in this uncertain figure and become vulnerable to betrayal? Neither truly seemed appropriate.

Stengel quashed her wavering emotions and unsealed the letter, scanning over the report before summarizing it for her mistress. "Lady Liliesviel, you noble Servant here reports that he had no trouble overseeing the death of Rider, which you observed last night," she began, "and that he witnessed something quite strange in the battle."

"Oh? Go on," Liliesviel prompted, "what sort of part did Alberich play?"
>>
"Quite a prominent one, it would appear," Stengel continued, "for he battled Rider as the Servant Saber. After a heated contest, described in detail here, he slew Rider and consumed a portion of his spirit's energy, transforming and empowering his Noble Phantasm in the process. A singularly strange and enigmatic event, it would seem to this humble servant."

Liliesviel, however, wasn't sharing her maid's emotions in the slightest. Instead an impish smirk adorned her face, and she said, "No, no, not at all, Stengel! Don't you see? This is the key to figuring out what kind of homunculus Grandfather has sent for my older brother! I've no more doubts now, if that's how it is!"

"And will you share with us your sagacious insight?" Though her words remain polite, sarcasm leaks into the maid's tone. Liliesviel's reaction is hardly what she might have hoped for, had she known in advance the contents of the letter.

"Of course!" Liliesviel was all smiles now, and she usually stays free with her favor as long as her mood is high. "See, if Alberich-nii-chan could absorb Rider's power that shows us how he became a Servant in the first place! Grandfather must have made a new kind of combat homunculus, a cross between our Stachel's type and a Lesser Holy Grail, with the ability to absorb a portion of a Servant's power upon its death. Then, Grandfather sent him as an agent to assist me in case the Servant we summoned wasn't good enough to complete the Heaven's Feel for me. So then Alberich came to Japan and managed to defeat one Servant, the one who died on Wednesday night, and take its place, but lost his memories when he absorbed its energy, like the early Lesser Holy Grails did. After that he ended up fighting as a Servant normally!"

Stengel remained unconvinced. "This seems like a strained and elaborate rationalization," she declared. "Lady Liliesviel, do you not think it more likely that this Alberich is simply a Servant with a strange ability? One summoned in the normal fashion, and quite unrelated to the Einzbern family?"

"Oh, you be quiet!" Liliesviel snapped. "If you had my magical talent, and you'd had a look at him properly, you would know Alberich-nii-chan was an artificial creation. No artificial human looks so much like us without being an Einzbern homunculus, you do know that. Now I'll hear no more argument from you. We're going to restore Onii-chan's memory and bring him back into the family properly! Now let me have a better look at that note."

"As you say, Lady Liliesviel." In harmonizing unison, the two maids affirmed their mistress' intent.
>>
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>>3603966
Liliesviel is best girl. We gotta play both sides if you all insist on working with Shirou.
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>>3603974
Would Shirou really kill a Enzbern loli? If anything he would try and save her.
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>>3603977
They're completely at odds on the topic of the grail war so there would definitely be conflict. I didn't say anything about him killing her.
>>
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>>3603953
>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.
>>3603966
Liliesviel a best.
God damn it.
Oh no, I want to protect her smile.

Here's my last height comparison.
Arturia is so fucking short.
>>
>>3604001
>Oh no, I want to protect her smile.
meh, 8/10 smile
now adelheid's smile is a smile worth protecting
>>
>>3604009
You can't stop me.
I want to protect her.
>>
>>3604001
And even with those platforms, Circe only just comes up to her height. Truly lovely.
>>
>>3604027
I included her platforms and head feathers in the height calculation.
Circe is very short.

I still want to protect Lilisviel. Like, let's not just stand around doing nothing if she's going to die like Illya in UBW.

I wonder if we could draw something that can extend a life from the realm of imaginary numbers...
>>
>>3603974
>>3604046
As I said before, it certainly isn't a route closed off to you entirely. Working with the Emiyas does make it harder, though.
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.

God, all of those are useful things to learn, but this seems like the most obvious to have Immediate short term benefits.
>>
>>3604046
I know this Is presumptuous, but to all the Lillisviel supporters I'd say unless we get some major motivation, wait for a different route, assuming we get to go back and play as the other classes.

Right now the way I see this the objective here Is to solidify Alberich's life after the war and Increase his power as much as possible, Incarnate, or even grant our own wish. Saving our master may be a secondary concern to consider, as she's the one who Is giving us our power from servants deaths, and she's growing on me a bit.
>>
>>3604053
Sure, but she's already making rationalizations about us.
The Emiyas are useful in the short term, if only to keep an eye on them
Personally I don't really want to betray either of them.
We can always say that after our humiliating defeat against the other Saber, we decided we would get the help of the strongest non-aggressive faction.
Einzbern non counting because we have no idea where they were or what bullshit servant they've summoned this time, if they even had summoned one.
Assumed amnesia makes lying easier.
>>
>>3604060
Anon, the motivation for Lilisviel route is literally in your statement.
>solidify Alberich's life after the war
Only the Einzbern can allow us to achieve true incarnation where we don't need orphan juice like Gil.
Ayaka's safety is also a primary concern, as she has been an excellent partner so far.
>>
How well would Judas have done if he won and came back from Akeldama?

I think he would've won the war pretty much single-handedly.
>>
>>3604060
Also
>not wanting the Einzbern loli to say that we won't lose to anyone because we are the strongest in the world
My disappointment with you is immeasurable, anon.
>>
>>3604074
>My disappointment with you is immeasurable, anon.

You are entitled to your opinions.

>>3604071
I wonder, would he just have massive stats or would he get some of the servants abilites/phantasms at his disposal as well? It was noted a good deal of the energy was used In just making us a servant In the first place, then the rest went to Improving stats.
>>
>>3604080
>You are entitled to your opinions.
My opinion is that you are a bad person.
Her smile must be protected.
>>
>>3604080
Some of the energy was also used in making our cape an NP proper and creating a whole new one as well.
>>
>>3604084
>My opinion is that you are a bad person.

Hmm. Harsh opinion over a Mongolian picture-board game.

>Her smile must be protected.

No. Protecting her smile Is optional. Putting forth hypothetical scenario's, how much are we willing to sacrifice for her wellbeing?

Would we-
Let Ayaka die?
Let our chance at a wish go, especially If we can get value from said wish?
Let Alberich die?
Give up the chance to save/bring back Circe or Adelheid?

There's a difference between what we must do and what we'd like to do. Personally If we can keep this girl alive, certainly, that's fine. I don't see any reason to kill her so we could keep her alive If It's manageable. Am I willing to sacrifice others or ourselves for her sake? No. I'm not sacrificing those we like for her sake when she has currently established no reason to do so.

I personally think you very much like Lillesviel In part because she's like Ilya and are biased In this regard. Would you extend this same devotion to Vassiet? Of course not, we don't know the full extent of either character, but one comes across as endearing and the other did not.

Why don't we see how the story progresses before making decisions regarding the loli?
>>
>>3604093
See the current smile protection tier list.

Smile protection tier list
Circe>Adelheid>Liliesviel=Ayaka>Shirou's Family(they can protect their own smiles)>>>everyone else>>>>>>Saber

Liliesviel is an existence that is more similar to us than a normal human could ever be, and not just appearance wise.
We'll have to see what her personality is like in closer detail.
If she's apparently "perfect" she might be able to complete a wish without dying.
The only other issue is that homonculi have very short lifespans but I feel either Circe or the contents of the realm of imaginary numbers could help with that.
>>
If we do go for becoming a king...
What do we have as our title?
The obvious "King of Fairies?
Something less obvious?
>>
>>3604104
She could be useful. If I get conformation that she could help us get a wish, especially If we could circumvent the 'Angry manjew Interprets everything as kill the world' thing her stock goes way up and I'd find myself suddenly charmed by her personality.

Ayaka gets protection for very obvious and very selfish reasons, but she seems like a decent enough If rather normal girl. It'd be somewhat disappointing for someone likeable to die, Master or no.

Truly though, Alberich Is at the front of his own smile protection list. We don't have anyone we care more about than ourselves. Whatever happens from serving our own Interests will be what It Is.
>>
>>3604116
>Alberich Is at the front of his own smile protection list. We don't have anyone we care more about than ourselves.
Except maybe Circe and Adelheid.
Circe especially considering he prioritised saving her in the final battle when she got hit over the actual final battle.
>>
>>3604119
To add onto this, Circe is the one that actually gave Rushorou's life meaning.
He cares more about her than he does about anyone else in the world.
He can't protect his own smile if he doesn't protect her smile.
>>
>>3604128
>>3604119
I'll give you that. If anyone means more to Alberich than himself, It's her.

Which Is why my main goal outside of surviving to become a king, Is to bring Circe back using the holy grail.
>>
>>3604115
>Arturia
King of Knights
>Iskandar
King of Conquerers
>Gilgamesh
King of Heroes
>Ozymandias
King of Kings
>Alberich
Break the mold?
Fresh Prince of the Gods,
>>
>>3604142
Could go with King of Miracles, I guess.
>>
>>3604134
We don't even know if she is gone.
I still want to protect our new little sister.
As a king, it is expected.
We can bond over not having a palace sized building to live in.
>>
I don't mean to alarm anyone.
But Liliesviel has her base in the top floor of a tower.
So uh...
Welp.
I'm sure Alberich can realise the strategic worthlessness of a base such as that.
If we meet her at her tower, we should probably tell her why the tower is a bad idea.
>>
Lily is really coming off like a princess in a tower, waiting for her knight in shining armor to free her.
>>
>Everyone is going gaga over the Einzbern Loli
Ok I understand getting in good with the Einzbern is the clearest way to cement our survival after the War, but can you all please tell me what your intentions are with this girl?

Cause yeah, Lily is cute for now..., but we have Circe, the rightful queen of our new world already.
And she's a very jealous woman.
We also have Adelheid, and her presence already tries Circe's patience. How do we explain bringing in two extra smiles into the mutual protection pack?
>>
>>3604187
>intentions for Lily
We'll be her Older Brother.
>intentions for Ayaka
She's our benefactor and has been a fantastic help. A dear friend.

It's not like either of them will start demanding kisses for mana.
>>
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Seeing as the last thread archived just after I posted it, I'll just repost the latest Alberich edit.
Any suggestions or do you think it looks alright?

I just wonder if Shirou can trace our sword.
I hope not. I mean, the circumstances of the forging should hopefully be beyond him, and it's explicitly not made of human materials.
>>
>>3604190
>implying she'd want anything to do with us when she finds out what we are and lied about it.
I know it worked with the other snobby magi we interacted with but I feel like Truv and Lily are on two totally different levels of prideful entitlement.
A regular noble woman is gonna take way more shit than a princess.
On top of that I'd like everyone to keep in mind that by the time we told Truv the truth she was dependent on us for survival. I highly doubt Lily will find herself in such a situation given her massive support network. I also doubt we'd even be able to lie to her much longer either way due to us trying to buddy up to the Emiya's. Provided she's not stupidly prideful rather than extremely prideful, she'd definitely at least send her servants to look into us more closely.

Not saying we shouldn't try, but I'd curb your expectations just a smidge.
Even if we get her in a temporary alliance, it will probably be just that, temporary.

The likelihood of a true friendship is slim.
>>
>>3604242
The difference from when we weren't a servant is we now command all the power of a servant.
We've also been somewhat adopted by the Gods.
Us just going along with her little game instead of killing everyone in the car should be something she is grateful for even if she finds the truth out.
She might be considered a princess but we intend to become a King.
If she sides with us she could be a true princess, unshackled from careless magi and her short life expectancy.

>>3604235
I mean, not explicitly, but heavily implied.
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.

>>3603960
>>3603963
>>3603966
*hhhhhhhhnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg*

>>3604053
Oh, sweets. Is a sleeker version of pic related what you had in mind for Alberich's helmet (with appropriate coloration)?
>>
>>3604252
>Us just going along with her little game instead of killing everyone in the car should be something she is grateful for even if she finds the truth out.
I very much doubt she will be.

>She might be considered a princess but we intend to become a King.
I want you to imagine what Rush would have done if some self proclaimed king was throwing their weight around and giving him ultimatums.
I doubt it would go very well for either party.

>If she sides with us she could be a true princess, unshackled from careless magi and her short life expectancy.
I doubt she'd be so willing to throw away her family ties to be some figurehead in some lying fool's court.

But that's all I have that the moment. Doubts.
Just want people to keep them in mind for the future. For all I know DM is bluffing and Lily will be our bff in 3 threads time.

Just remember. It's ill advised to play with the hearts of young women.
>>
>>3604270
You seem to be forgetting in our very first encounter with her she decided to mystic eyes a Servant.
Not being killed for that is a pretty nice thing.
>imagine what Rush would've done
Probably do what he did a lot in Akeldama, die.
>throw away her family ties
Ah yes "we grew you to do a single thing, now go die." A great family. Also fuck you for even implying Alberich is a lying fool.
>It's all advised to play with the hearts of young women
Not if Predatory Charisma C++ has anything to say about it.
>>
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>>3604235
Your broken outlines bothered me, so I fixed them.
>>
>>3604298
Thanks!
They were bothering me too but I'm not able to edit anything rn.
>>
>>3604282
>Probably do what he did a lot in Akeldama, die.
To be more specific, die fighting.
And even if we can take her out with ease, which I doubt, that very much goes against the "Protect Smiles" prime directive doesn't it?

>Ah yes "we grew you to do a single thing, now go die." A great family.
I'm not saying they are a good family, but based on my general knowledge of a variety of things, such an upbringing also breeds undying loyalty.
I could be wrong in this case, but I'd keep it in mind.

>Also fuck you for even implying Alberich is a lying fool.
I was typing that from her perspective. It's probably how she'd see us, no matter how powerful and cooperative we are.
That said, old boy does lie.
A ton.
>>
>>3604265
Someone posted that helmet in the last thread, and I still feel it looks more like a monkey's face than a lion's.
That helmet and Ornstein's both get the positioning of the face right, but in terms of the beast's facial shape it should look more like the attacked image.
>>
>>3603953
>>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.
THE PATHWAY TO INSTA-DELETE BEAMS
>>
>>3604335
So a more bestial design, but similar layout. Ok.
>>
>>3604334
His lies are necessary.
You'd hide the truth too if upsetting somebody could lead to your unwilling suicide.
As for your other points...
Well I guess we'll see what happens.

Kind of related but any magi worth anything would be immensely interested in Rushorou
A normal human turned conceptual being turned servant?
Also his Noble Phantasm is utter bullshit.
Hmmm.
I wonder if we can link Kenotis to a portal from Heiligöffnungschwert to redirect an attack...
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Introduction to Structural Energy Systems, which deals with magic circuits, leylines, bounded energy fields, and related topics.
So Lily has Assassin. There wasn't much doubt about that, but it's nice to have some certainty.

>>3604071
>I think he would've won the war pretty much single-handedly.
That's a fairly safe conclusion to draw, but Kishi Ou has Magic Resistance A, which can basically negate the entire Caster class, and her master is a dedicated mage killer. They might actually give him some trouble, even with all that power.

>>3604235
>I just wonder if Shirou can trace our sword.
I'd guess that he can, but he can probably only reliably reproduce the "cut through anything" effect since, if it's like our cloak, it only really requires putting magical energy into the blade. Reproduction of the miracles would require favor from the gods that he may or may not have, being a Heaven's Feel-certified superhuman existence.
>the circumstances of the forging should hopefully be beyond him
Unlikely. Shirou's so good at tracing and projecting that he starts with the "creation concept" rather than the process of forging - which, in our sword's case, more or less IS the process of forging it since it's a layering of two sword concepts on top of each other. He might even already know how to create Durandal thanks to the vast amount of Archer's experience and arsenal that flooded his brain and body towards the end of HF, which would make forging our sword that much easier.
>it's explicitly not made of human materials
First, that's not quite true. Second, even if it is, I don't remember that ever being a limitation for Shirou since he can replicate holy swords and even Rho Aias (whatever the hell a magic flower is made of).

>>3604270
>Just remember. It's ill advised to play with the hearts of young women.
Well, that's kind of how we won the Akeldama Grail War, so...

>>3604334
>such an upbringing also breeds undying loyalty
It certainly didn't 15 years ago. In FSN, as soon as Illya realized Shirou was her chance at having a real family, she went to great lengths to keep him around, which directly contradicted her explicit orders to kill him. Granted, her lack of proper upbringing caused that affection to manifest in... curious ways.

Regardless, working alongside both the Einzbern and the Emiyas will be a very dangerous dance for a plethora of reasons. We're going to need to be really, really slick about it, regardless of what direction we take it in.
>>
>>3604455
I'm still not certain if Shirou would be able to trace it, honestly.
I guess we'll find out at some point.
>>
>>3604369
>So a more bestial design, but similar layout. Ok.
A more Classical Greek design is what I'm trying to get at; the first design I posted was Greek statuary, and this (I think) is a movie prop based on Alexander's famous lion helmet.
The Greek style of depicting lions differs from the modern in several important ways. First, there's the proportion of the head to the mane. In a modern statue or other depiction of a lion you'll typically have a smaller head, with the mane flaring out, encircling it, so that you clearly see the mane when looking at the beast from straight on. The Greeks didn't do this.
Instead, Greek depictions of lions have a larger head, with the mane flowing back from it. It's still slightly flared, but the profile is overall far more sleek and continuous.
Greek depictions of lions also typically use points for the whiskers, rather than the lines traced by other depictions.
What's most important, though, is the Grecian attention to muscle contour. As in classical sculpture of men, classical sculpture of lions pays close attention to shaping the rounded contours of the muscles below the skin, so that the beast seems almost to be straining at all times. See how its brows fold and its nose wrinkles, observe the softly curving cheeks and upper lip. This incorporation of round shapes and furious expression sets the Greek depiction of a lion apart from the more angular appearance they often take on in other cultures' depictions, and from the more serene countenance they bear in modern statuary.
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>>3604060
>I know this Is presumptuous, but to all the Lillisviel supporters I'd say unless we get some major motivation, wait for a different route, assuming we get to go back and play as the other classes
Since it seems to be pertinent here, I'll let you folks know. After some further consideration, I've decided not to restart the Fate Quest. When Awakening Mirror ends, I'll move on to writing either the third arc or an entirely new quest.

>>3604455
You've made plenty of rational responses here, but where do you really stand on the Liliesviel debate? Were you charmed by her cuteness, or are you staying aloof?
>>
>>3604455
>Well, that's kind of how we won the Akeldama Grail War, so...
Fair, but I'd still be careful.
Between Lily and the Master of Archer I don't see much room to turn our swag on with only Charisma D.

Another note.
Lily is not Illya.
I'm pretty sure the Einzberns would make certain not to make that mistake again.
But who knows at this point?

>>3604470
You could have been writing the update, but instead you taught us about sculptures.
What a great QM, you can't get this autistic devotion to quality information almost anywhere else.
>>
>>3604455
>Introduction to Structural Energy Systems
Why this one?
>>
>>3603953
>[ ] Transcendental Principles of Elementalism, which deals with applications of pure element control.
Seems the most useful one.

I am fine wtih not slaughtering Einzberns and talking some sense IC in Liliesviel if possible but being indebted to Einzberns or relying on them for existence after the War is the last thing we should aim for. There ought to be better and more reliable ways to maintain our presence.
>>
>>3604495
>Einzbern
>Not repeating mistakes
>"Guys lets do the exact same thing for the sixth time! It's sure to work this time!"
I don't think they understand the concept of not repeating mistakes.
>>
>>3604495
The Master of Archer is a hag, she was already out of the question.

>>3604506
>"Guys lets do the exact same thing for the sixth time! It's sure to work this time!"
>tfw you tried a Grail War to gain immortality, but it failed because it wasn't a true Grail War...
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>>3604513
>immortality
Wait, am I thinking about Zouken or did they have that end goal as well?
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>>3604494
>third arc
Crossing fingers for Moon Cell shenanigans.
Although it existance would make our verse even more of a mash up.
>>
>>3604465
Also I'm not quite sure how Shirou would deal with tracing an Anti-World Noble Phantasm.
>>
>>3604514
They just want to complete the Third Magic iirc.
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>>3604455
>Reproduction of the miracles would require favor from the gods that he may or may not have
He almost definitely won't have it, because we came first and he's firmly against using the Grail to wish for the gods to return.
>since he can replicate holy swords
He made a cheap, hollow fake, didn't he?
The wiki cites Nasu in Fate/complete material III (p.134), where he states that Divine Constructs can't be replicated but "there might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though".
>and even Rho Aias (whatever the hell a magic flower is made of)
Seven cowskins and a layer of bronze.
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>>3604506
No, they do understand. They try to make different mistakes every time.
>First War: no Command Seals, so the Servants can do whatever they like
>Second War: idk but something nasty no doubt
>Third War: summoned AM
>Fourth War: hired Kiritsugu
>Fifth War: sent Kiritsugu's daughter to be both Berserker's Master and the lesser grail
Wonder what they did this time.
>>
>>3604527
Well the first mistake they made was somehow allowing the grail to let Judas Iscariot be summoned with a totally bullshit Noble Phantasm.
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>>3604528
Technically that was AM altering the Grail and letting evil people be summoned.although einzberns are still to blame for summoning him in the first place
Before that only Good and Neutral alignments were allowed, actual character notwithstanding.
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>>3604536
He should be gone now though, right?
Dumping the grail into numberspace for our wish is a solution, but not a perfect one, if he isn't.
>>3604523
The biggest thing in our favour is that our sword (which is also a top tier holy sword) was seemingly created in Imaginary Number Space from material originating within it, Shirou can only use Earthly materials so he theoretically shouldn't be able to copy it and an attempt might just default to Durandal.
Additionally, to analyse our sword, wouldn't he have to also analyse a portal leading to an uncertain realm?
If that's the case our sword is Ea-tier "this makes my brain hurt."
>>
Would the Emiyas really dislike us absorbing the other Servants? If the energy isn't going to the Grail, doesn't that mean it won't work if we absorb enough of our enemies?
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>>3604558
Nah, it's specifically mentioned when we did it that most of it goes to the grail.
As for whether the Emiyas would appreciate us Megamanning our way through a Grail War to win, Shirou slapped Archer's arm directly onto his stump in order to get through the Grail War.
And it's not like we're properly absorbing them like the Shadow did.
We're just using our fucky nature to our advantage.

Now they might have a problem with killing Saber again but hey, Shirou's got experience.
>>
>>3604494
I was in favor of trying to team up with Lily and the Emiyas even before this interlude because I think it's a smart plan considering what we're up against, and I'd prefer to avoid her death because that's just how I am. The fact that she's adorable is a bonus.

>>3604498
As useful as pure element control will be, it's just that - pure element control. There's no structure to it, which we'll probably need to learn something of to achieve desired results more effectively. Alternatively, Forms of Power could help us learn stuff like summoning circles, which we might be able to use to draw specific things out of the IN realm.
I'm not against learning pure element control, though. It might be a good first step that will help us get more out of the remaining two books.

>>3604523
>he's firmly against using the Grail to wish for the gods to return.
I certainly don't remember Alberich ever being firmly for that.
>He made a cheap, hollow fake, didn't he?
He made a functional Caliburn and perfectly projected Avalon in Fate, and in Heaven's Feel he creates a working copy of Saber Alter's Excalibur. Archer also threatens in UBW to create a "faithful" replica of Excalibur to duel Saber with, with the inevitable collateral damage of an Excalibur-off limiting Saber's options.
>Divine Constructs can't be replicated
We don't have a reason to believe our NP is a Divine Construct. Anti-World is no more than a classification indicating what our NP targets.
>Seven cowskins and a layer of bronze.
According to legend, yes, but personally I don't think the seven layers of glowing purple glass that Archer projects match that description very closely.

>>3604550
>wouldn't he have to also analyse a portal leading to an uncertain realm?
He's successfully traced Gem Sword Zelretch, so I don't think things that poking holes in our world will be too difficult for him to trace.

>>3604527
In the second war, while they had finally added command spells, they had forgotten to add rules.

>>3604558
Based on the description when Rider died, we're not siphoning off enough to cause concern. But even if we were, wouldn't it be ideal for the Emiyas if the Grail doesn't have enough energy to function?
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>>3604558
Eating strong magical beings for fun certainly isn`t going to win goodboi points in their eyes.
Since they might assume that we will take them as a snack next. Medusa, Shirou and Sakura are very nutritious. Sakura might be even enough to stabilize our existence post-War.
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>>3604569
Archer was probably bullshitting in UBW
Only time he can even create a half-way close to believeable fake of Excalibur is within the Moon Cell
His Excalibur in HF is a "close enough" fake that also kills him
He made Caliburn with Saber's assistance no?
As for Raw Ass, it's magic I don't gotta explain shit.
The Avalon Projection is because of some stupid bullshit that isn't possible with anything else
The Jewel Sword doesn't specifically have a portal for it's cutting edge. The Jewel Sword is also specifically something that Zelretch intended for humans to be able to create eventually, Our sword is linked to nothingness bullshit.
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>>3604583
>The Avalon Projection is because of some stupid bullshit that isn't possible with anything else
It's because Avalon was literally inside his body for the greater half of his life, making it the most familiar object that he could project. So stupid bullshit.
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>>3604583
>Archer was probably bullshitting in UBW
It's hard to say for certain, but if a mostly-dead, mind-addled Shirou can pull it off, Archer probably can too.
>His Excalibur in HF is a "close enough" fake that also kills him
Not really. It's a "close enough" fake, sure, but so are all his projections. It doesn't kill him, though - what kills him is Archer's arm, which puts a huge strain on his mind whenever he projects and his mind inevitably shatters as a result.
>He made Caliburn with Saber's assistance no?
He needed Saber's assistance to use Caliburn, but not to project it. He projected it straight out of his dreams.
>As for Raw Ass, it's magic I don't gotta explain shit.
That's kind of my point.
>The Avalon Projection is because of some stupid bullshit that isn't possible with anything else
True, but he still managed to project it, it takes you to another world, and it's not even a sword.
>The Jewel Sword doesn't specifically have a portal for it's cutting edge.
If anything, that should make it easier for Shirou to project, since the portal IS the sword.
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>>3604607
You're totally wrong on the Excalibur thing.
Complete Materials 3 retcons it
>Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
>A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.

How should him having to analyse a portal leading to imaginary number space make projecting it easier?
Hell, if it's entire edge is a portal, then you could actually say it has no edge at all.
So could you even really call it a sword?
Avalon is absolute asspull tier so lets try not to use that as our example
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>>3604620
Ah, Kinoko "I can't stop contradicting myself" Nasu.
>Archer is Shirou, with a superior version of his ability
>Shirou can project Excalibur using Archer's arm
>Archer can't project Excalibur
>By the way, he can only project close-combat weapons
>But if he fucks up his magic circuits badly enough, he can project guns!
orz
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>>3604620
>Complete Materials 3 retcons it
Christ, Nasu, give us a break, will ya?

The Gem Sword doesn't have much of an edge, either. It's an oblong crystal on a stick with a hole to another world inside of it so you can turn it into the world's most dangerous laser pointer. A sword that cuts through anything by sending material its edge comes into contact with to a different dimension is conceptually very sword-like by comparison.
And Rho Aias isn't a sword at all.
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>>3604629
Things that aren't swords are apparently more expensive and lower quality.
Fishing Rods and Bows definitely aren't swords.
Basically Shirou is wildly inconsistent in both his ideals and his powerset, but we love him for it.
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>>3604298
Thanks for the cleanup, anon! This looks excellent.
By the way, I'm curious what Servant the face and arm are coming from. The main armor is Saberlot's, and the cloak is an edit of Seiba's, but I can't place the head sprite or the arm holding Heiligöffnungschwert.
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>>3604624
Prisma "Nasu is asleep, have Shirou win a grail war in one night, trace Divine constructs and create sword tidal waves in Unlimited Blade Works." Illya is my favourite example of inconsistency
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>>3604644
Did Miyu's brother even go through the same inciting incident for his sword origin? I'm not caught up on Prillya, but it seems like he probably has a different set of powers that merely look similar.
Of course, everything in that world is stupidly OP compared to FSN. There's a family of human magi that can manufacture new NPs using cards.
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>>3604640
orig spriteanon here, these are the parts I used.
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>>3604656
He just uses an EMIYA card (which is meant to be degraded from a Servant) and activates bullshit mode
Then he loses the card and activates super bullshit mode.
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>>3604659
Interesting.
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>>3604659
Oh, interesting. So it was Saber Diarmuid and Li Shuwen...
Nice job picking the parts; they really came together well.

By the way, you referred to that as "take 1" in the last thread. Planning on doing another version?
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>>3604668
I could maybe try for something with the lion helm but that'd have to be drawn from scratch I feel.

The color corrected and properly outlined version >>3604298 looks pretty dang spiffy, thanks for fixing it up m8s!
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>>3604682
I'd be glad to see it if you did try drawing the helm from scratch, but either way you've contributed something great to the quest. Thank you!

>>3604661
>He uses an EMIYA card
That's one of my big problems with Prillya, right there. Not Servant cards, I can accept those as a plot device, but the EMIYA card in particular. EMIYA is a direct product of the timeline in which F/SN takes place. He begins as Shirou, experiences the Fuyuki fire, has Avalon stuck in his chest, becomes a sword, and eventually contracts with Alaya to obtain UBW and become a counter guardian.
Prillya occurs in a world where none of that happens. There is no Fuyuki fire. Illyasviel is an almost normal girl. Shirou is a random orphan who Kiritsugu and Irisviel decided to adopt for no real reason. Nobody stuck Avalon into Shirou's chest. There is no cause in this timeline for the existence of Archer. UBW and his abilities are a causeless existence with no origin.
Even then, you could say that events diverge in F/SN, but he still exists there, so he has some independence from the flow of history. But then, it gets even worse! The Servant cards are from an entirely different world, in which history diverted much earlier, and there's no conceivable path to the existence of Archer! Where does UBW come from? Where does the EMIYA card come from? It makes no sense.
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>>3604711
>adopt
I think the term is "kidnap".
No Fire = Shirou wouldn't be an orphan.

Prillya is so dumb
At least Kid Gil shows up, and that was pretty cool.
The cards are just stupid though.
Especially the EMIYA card.
Don't forget the card was actually blank until EMIYA decided to just somehow hop into it.
And nobody is remotely surprised by the existence of Counter Guardian EMIYA at all.
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>>3604726
Also how is it possible for Saber to be a class card?
She should either be mulliganing grail wars, in Avalon, or a Counter Guardian, no? She shouldn't be a Heroic Spirit, right?
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>>3604735
Presumably Artoria would normally be capable of being a Heroic Spirit, but in the Prillya timeline she didn't make that deal at the end of her life or whatever?
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>>3604742
You need to make so many exceptions for Prisma Illya.
It's like a wierd fever dream.
It makes even less sense than HA at times, and HA isn't meant to make sense
what's your favourite HA scene anyway, everyone?
I think mine is the shenanigans that occur with Rin's second true magic box.
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>>3604142
>Alberich
King of Gods please.
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>>3604774
My favorite scene from Hollow Ataraxia? I'd say it's a toss-up between the pool-date with Illya and visiting Illya at home.
>>
Wait what would happen to Alberich if he fused his current sword with Ea?
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>>3604814
>King of Gods
I don't think it works that way.
>>3604815
Both great scenes.
Good taste.
I mostly like the Rin scene because of the phone dialling through to other timelines.
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>>3604822
I have no idea.
The real question is what happens to everyone else.
>>
I still don't think Shirou should be able to trace our sword.
I hope not.
But his abilities are just too inconsistent to know one way or the other.
At least if he can he'd only be able to trace a sword that can cut through anything, not like the gods are just gonna hand out miracles to anyone.

Also I would imagine an Anti-World NP would have a large energy cost to trace, even for him.
>>
Transcendental Principles of Elementalism is what you settle on. It was Heiligöffnungschwert's third miracle that provoked this return to the library, after all. If you hold in your possession an artifact that can manifest your Imaginary Elements, the only reasonable choice in magic study is to read the book on elemental control. Previously you were interested in general magic theory; supplementing your understanding of the way magi look at the world, since you had no direct path in mind when it came to your own magical pursuits. Now, however, the need arises for a more practical focus.

Unfortunately, the author confined himself to writing about the so-called Five Great Elements: those elements which manifest in this world, namely Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky. Although one of these is an alignment of yours, its nature makes it less than ideally useful for raw manipulation. Sky, the author explains, is an element that can only affect magical constructs and actualized mysteries, since it is the element of magic itself. You recall Circe telling you something similar during her own dissertation on the elements, back in the Akeldama, but she didn't get into much detail regarding manifesting them directly. Her view of magic, you recall, was as spells created by a combination of element and attribute, where the primary focus is to produce a certain effect on the world by actualizing the mystery related to it through a foundation of element and a form defined by attribute. As you consider the subject, you realize this likely has to do with the origins of magic from a goddess' perspective. If magic began as using the divine language to command the world to reshape itself, it would be natural to, when studying the composition of magic that makes up these commands, prioritize the effect and regard the mystic substance as subsidiary.

Elementalism seems to be a very different sort of magic. It's manifestly human in its outlook, to continue with the speculation regarding conceptual origins, as it studies magic beginning with substance. Both Circe and the elementalist magi recognize the world as being composed of five elements, but whereas her approach to magic focused on the manifestation of effects, the author of Transcendental Principles writes exclusively about the manifestation and control of elements in their pure material state. Since Sky has no function in a pure material state, it's naturally glossed over. Still, you persevere despite the cold treatment given to your alignment. It's the method that matters, after all, not the subject. With Heiligöffnungschwert's power, you should be able to maintain the existence of Nothingness, which Circe called "the element of impossible materialization," using the principles outlined here for the ordinary material elements.
>>
The methods outlined in the text are, by and large, as much the object of Circe's scorn as its subject. The book follows a chronological approach to the development of elemental control, beginning with the most rigid of formal craft by outlining such things as magic circles that can be inscribed on parchment and then burned to summon a gout of fire. After that, the author progresses to the autohypnotic method, using incantations to promote the subconscious shaping of Od. Less than a third of the book pertains to the information most useful to you, the actual forms which these indirect methods should induce mystic energy to take.

Nonetheless, after several hours of reading you arrive at a basic understanding of how to shape your energy into the elemental forms according to the internal method of control that Circe taught you. By focusing on the inner system of your magic circuits and channeling the mystic energy that flows through them to the boundary line between yourself and the world, you can compel it to manifest as materialized Nothingness; at least, that's the theory. Now that you have a clear idea of what to do, you begin your first practical test, conjuring into the air before you...

>[ ] A projectile, modeled on the classic fireball design. (Duty)

>[ ] A barrier, like an oversized round shield. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] A sword, its shape replicating Heiligöffnungschwert. (Pride)

>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)

>[ ] Something else (Write in)
>>
Note that just came to mind:
Someone in the last thread asked if the emotional stats in the menu were up to date. They are. I've been keeping them updated with fair frequency, I think, and at any rate they're presently current.
>>
>>3605337
>[ ] A projectile, modeled on the classic fireball design. (Duty)
We need a projectile attack anyway.
>>
>>3605337
....
>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
>>
>>3605337
>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
You see, Circe? I'm learning
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>>3605337
>>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
Actually, I take it back. Fuck the insta-delete beam, doing this in honor of Circe is too good to pass up.

So this is basically creating a deletion portal without needing to use our cape, right? Though from the sound of it it's not gonna be as big as our current cape.
>>
>>3605350
Eh fuck it I'll switch to
>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
I'm not sure about what we could even use it for though.
We'll need to find out what effect it has on the material world.
>>
>>3605392
No. You're putting your element into physical form. A portal is a complex construct; what you're shaping is solid Nothingness. Neither the projectile nor the ribbon would be "deletion."
>>
>>3605337
>>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
>>
>>3605395
Ah, so by creating a flat strip, we're putting something in mid-air to interrupt people's weapon swings or cause them to trip, right? And not an out and out barrier, since that's a separate option?
>>
>>3605408
I assume we could also use it for the purposes of binding.
>>
>>3605408
Honestly, aside from the nostalgiac factor I'm picking the strip because it seems like the thing that could go the least wrong on our first try.
>>
>>3605408
Think of it like an appendage. What you're doing is summoning and controlling your element, after all. You can manipulate it in the same way as you could manipulate a fireball to fly forward, or the sword replica to strike an enemy from behind. If it helps make it clearer, I had first thought of a chain or a tentacle, before deciding that modeling it on Kenótis' first form was more stylistically appropriate.
>>
>>3605434
Ah, so like a big ribbon we're controlling with telekinesis?
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>>3605443
Something like that, yes.
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>>3605434
Ah so I was correct on my binding assumption.
Could be useful.
Especially on enemy Masters.
Unlikely to work on a Servant but very few Non-Casters can actually use magecraft at all.
Like, you might get a few that use runes
+1 to us over Arturia
We can actually use our magical potential for magecraft other than stupid huge golden explosions and temporarily getting stronger/faster.
I assume that materialised Nothingness would be a fairly difficult substance to break.
With all the other's they have limited uses.
A strip of telekinetically (sort of) controlled difficult to break cloth however has a large variety of uses. Binding, neck snapping, blindfolding, suffocating, tripping.
>>
>>3605337
A sharp projectile, like a thrown dagger or arrow
>>
So, will Assassin be a Hassan, do you think?
Because if so I'm hoping for Serenity.
Conceptual Biology should make us immune to her poisons.
And if you don't die when she touches you, she gets... attached.
>>
>>3605558
I feel like we've already met Assassin. It would make sense, given how Lily's family essentially confines her to the tower.
>>
>>3605558
Assassin is "Niemand" in service of Liliesviel anon. A germanic figure most likely.
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>>3605583
Niemand means "Nobody" too.
>>
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>>3605337
A parrying dagger.
>>
So that's 4 for a shadowy tendril and 2 for a blade.
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>>3605618
I've always had really mixed feelings about the Abyss Watcher's design
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>>3605635
I'm not surprised, that pointy hat is dinky and ugly as hell.
>>
Why not a projectile? We're severely lacking in ranged options.
>>
>>3605644
You can use a blade for a projectile or to parry, so it's the same either way.
>>
>>3605644
Fuck the projectile, get the utility ability that allows for a wide variety of write ins while also honoring our first waifu.
>>
>>3605644
Don't think it's of much use in "serious" combat, while a utility option which can be controlled while fighting is more useful.
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>>3605644
A basic projectile won't do shit damagewise to a servant.
The Cloth Strip can probably be used to trip them or something though, where we can follow through with a deadly finish.
Cloth can also be wrapped around an enemy masters throat and squeezed I imagine. So a great way to subdue or kill an enemy master.
Hell, we could even wrap it round their face tight enough so they can't use a command spell.
>>
>>3605660
It'd be a great way to start a fight off right, most wouldn't expect a Saber cast a projectile magic spell at them and might injure them before we close to melee range.
>>
>>3605671
We could definitely kill a master with an unexpected projectile. Don't get me wrong, I think the cloth strip sounds cool too. But it's still only useful at close range and we're already the best close range class without it.
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>>3605676
Anon, if a servant could be caught off guard by suddenly having a conjured projectile lobbed at them, they probably weren't a very good servant.
And it's not like we'll be conjuring an EMIYA style projectile to shoot.
>>
You know, I'm surprised nobody made a joke about Heiligöffnungschwert's three miracles being analogous to Killer Queen's three bombs. Has the kiraposting died down?
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>>3605690
I mean, the three abilities aren't as seperate and distinctive as the bombs. The three bombs would be more analogous to three related but distinct NPs imo.
>>
>>3605688
I mean, the same could be said about a strip of cloth
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>>3605702
I really like that the cloth can do more than just lob itself at the enemy. It lends itself well to creative tactics.
>>
>>3605684
Anon, the Cloth is controlled telekinetically.
It's no less useful at long range than shooting a sword would be.
And it has far more utility.
>>
Could the strip of cloth also be hardened or sharpened?
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>>3605337
>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
Honors Circe, can be used in a lot of creative and unexpected ways, and sticks to our bootleg Shadow theme for abilities. How can we not?
>>
>>3605714
Why do you need to stab people with your fabric?
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>>3605714
I assume it won't break easily, but if you want something that's hardened or sharpened, you're probably better off getting the shield or the sword? Like, I love the strip of cloth, but I'm not gonna pretend it can also do what other options offer.
>>
Remember that this is practicing elemental control, not summoning.
None of these options really locks out the others permanently or anything. We're just determining what form you're most familiar with based on what you first practice with.
It's like the difference between (in some other fantasy series) a pyromancer who starts off learning to throw fireballs and one who starts off with touch of fire.
>>
>>3605718
We don't have to be constrained to making it clothlike in every way right? It's a magical construct that we're just making up. We can get a little creative and add even more utility to it.
>>
>>3605724
What do you mean by it not being summoning? Would summoning lock us out of other things?
>>
>>3605726
From what Sweets just said, looks like it yeah, eventually.
>>
>>3605730
If you summon a sword, it's just a sword. If you make a sword out of Nothingness, you can make it float or reshape it into something else, or what have you. It's not a real sword, just a lump of elemental magic shaped like a sword.
>>
>>3605736
Why not just start that way now? We're capable of forming it into a blade if we wanted to, so we should be able to add those attributes to a flexible clothlike construct.
>>
>>3605726
By all means, do get creative. I put that set of prompts up primarily to demonstrate the versatility of elemental control.
>>
>>3605337
Changing my vote to
>[ ] A flat strip, like Kenótis' shape when Circe first created it. (Compassion)
With sharpened edges, a sharpened point, and can be made flexible or solid
>>3605747
Doable?
>>
>>3605747
Can we make a semi-autonomous construct?
>>
>>3605755
*Dream Crusher EX Activated*
>>
>>3605755
Sorry to immediately say no after telling you to get creative, but...
No.
Elemental magic is all about manifesting your element into the world in simple shapes that you control directly. A fireball, a great stream of water, a blade of wind, etc.
Complex constructs that exist or act beyond your direct and continuous maintenance would require a more complex form of magic.
>>
>>3605778
Hmm.
I take it we cannot create something that would react upon something touching it?
Like, something like a beartrap.
>>
>>3605778
How distracting (during mid-combat) would directly controlling something like an animal construct be? What about a bird construct capable of flight?
>>
>>3605803
If you're watching it happen and make it move, yes, but I don't think that's what you mean.
>>
>>3605747
Is there any downside to adding attributes to the cloth?
>>
>>3605805
Do you want to show off to Lily by making cool animals or something?
I don't really see how puppeteering birds or animals will have many applications in combat.
>>
>>3605805
Depends on the specifics. If you want something generally shaped like a bird, that "flies" by being propelled through the air by magic, no more distracting than controlling a floating sword or the shadowy ribbon. If you want a realistic-looking bird replica that flies under physical principles, the same way a real bird does, it would be highly distracting. It would also require more knowledge of bird anatomy than you have.

>>3605813
Only the downsides entailed by the attributes. If you want it to be hard, it will be less flexible, and so-on.
>>
>>3605810
I meant more in the way of creating something that would utilise a spring or some kind of release mechanism that would trip when pressure was applied.
>>
>>3605822
So could we twist the cloth into a drill?
>>
>>3605822
I could do without the hardness if the edges could still be sharp.
>>
>>3605848
In the first place, it would be complicated; you'd have to research the construction of it, manifest the mechanical parts individually, assemble them, and then concentrate on maintaining its existence until it had fulfilled its purpose.
You can see why magi turned to mystic codes instead, I'm sure.

>>3605856
I guess?
>>
>>3605871
That's slightly irritating
Also
Cool, drills > swords anyway.
>>
>>3605882
>drills > swords
Unless you're talking about hairstyles, you can take that heretical talk right out of this quest, anon!
>>
>>3605887
Drills are a man's weapon pointing to the future, and I won't let you shit talk them while I'm around.
>>
>>3605887
No.
>>
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>>3605900
>>3605902
I'm not going to tell you twice!
>>
>>3605882
>>3605887
>>3605900
>>3605908
>>3605902
>Local men don't recognize the greatness of the spear, more on that at 11
>>
>>3605920
>look at me! I've got a pointy stick!
Fuck off, Lancer.
>>
>>3605920
Truth is, the reason why I dislike the idea of drills as a weapon is that they're bastardized spears.
>>
A wise man once said "If there's a hole, it's a guy's job to thrust into it".
>>
>>3605936
But spears don't drill
Spears spear
Drills drill.
>>
>>3605939
Fantastically poor advice around Kiara.
>>
>>3605925
How so?

>>3605924
>A repurposed slave's mining implement
>Versus a noble weapon which has been wielded by conquerers the world over
>>
>>3605945
Usually if you see a "drill weapon" in fiction, it's a piercing attack, often placed on the end of a pole. In other words, it's a polearm. What is the origin of polearms? That's right, the spear.
Otherwise it's used like a shortsword, and that's just even more lame.
>>
>>3605945
>a mighty instrument that can smash through solid rock
>sharp stick used to stab fleeing animals with
>>
>>3605957
They're not even supposed to be a weapon, anon. Just give it up.
>>
>>3605956
I see, makes sense

>>3605957
At least the drill is better than the crossbow and similar garbage
>>
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Check out this drill like thing that is explicitly better than any sword.
>>
>>3605986
>Drill-like thing
>Doesn't drill through anything
>Explicitly a cutting implement
>No point
Are you kidding?
>>
>>3605999
It's more like a drill than it is a sword.
However I feel we've gotten way off topic.
>>
>>3606004
We can all agree that drills are best hairstyle though, right?
>>
>>3606016
It's pretty great, no doubt about that.
>>
Nothingness: the element that makes up all materials in the Realm of Imaginary Numbers. Although the world you dwell in is made up of Five Great Elements, only two exist in the gods' newer realm. These are Nothingness, which fills the roles of Earth, Water, Wind, and Fire; and Void, which fills the role of Sky. With Heiligöffnungschwert's third miracle and basic knowledge of elemental magic, you're now finally ready to make proper use of the fact that you are aligned to this multifaceted Imaginary Element.

You draw the mystic energy out of your magic circuits, transforming it at the edge of your existence, and introducing it into the world as Nothingness, physically materialized. You imbue the element with the soft flexibility of silk, interwoven with the resilience of steel. Then, carefully maintaining the force of will necessary to impose your control on the manifestation, you give it shape, flowing into the world from the energy gathered around your hand as a long ribbon three inches wide by six feet long, of the same color as your cloak. At first you only hold it in place, the difficulty of maintaining its existence gradually slackening as your mind grows accustomed to the task of governing an elemental manifestation.

You look at the strange thing floating in the air, for all the world an ordinary strip of black silk, with a feeling of great pride. You've changed a great deal since appearing in the Akeldama; all for the better, of course, but it's never really been by your own power. Akeldama gave you power, first through the pseudo-grail and then through the completion of its ritual. Ayaka empowered you through her ritual, which allowed you to absorb Rider's sacrifice. Circe gave you power in the form of the mystic codes she created for you, which later became your skills and Noble Phantasms. Even your fighting abilities, partially learned through your own effort, were aided by the first mystic code she gave you, the gloves which enhanced your muscle memory. Now, though, for the first time, you've truly improved your power exclusively by your own efforts and study. You've learned, on your own, to wield the power of your element!

Status Updated
>>
Experimenting with your control over the manifestation, you will it to take on the red edging that marks the black areas of Kenótis. It obligingly shifts, proving one of your hypotheses about the nature of your weaponry. You'd been wondering whether it was the other side of Kenótis' portal that was wholly dark, or if that were a property of the portal itself. The ability of this construct of Nothingness to hold color proves that the darkness of your portals comes from the fact that whatever light strikes them is being transported to the Realm of Imaginary Numbers, rather than being a fundamental property of the Imaginary Elements.

Next, you experiment with the size and physical properties of the ribbon. By pouring more energy into it, you're able to lengthen it as much as you like, and you make several circuits around the walls of the room before returning it to a more manageable size. You confirm your deftness with it by picking up and replacing several books; there are no problems using it as an extensible limb. You can harden it to greater rigidity, making a narrow shield out of the thing, or narrow the edges into a blade, with somewhat more effort than was required to change the color. Finally you try moving the ribbon's entire length away from yourself, and find that it becomes more difficult to sustain the ribbons existence as it gets farther from you. Intriguingly, keeping one end tucked away in your cloak and extending the other across the room uses less energy than holding the entirety of a smaller ribbon at the same distance. You make a mental note to save energy by always keeping the ribbon's 'base' on your person.

Satisfied with your control over a single mass of elemental magic, you try creating three ribbons at once. The first comes more easily than before, but trying to keep it in existence while creating a second is taxing, and the third proves too much for you; your concentration breaks, and all three dissipate. Still, you're confident you can continue to improve with practice. Checking your watch, it's about noon. You've spent four hours on magic practice, and it suddenly seems odd that Ayaka didn't contact you to see what you were up to. Then again, perhaps she looked in on you during your reading and you were too absorbed in the book to notice.

>[ ] Head to the kitchen for some lunch (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Go down into Vaisset's workshop and start looking through his research notes. (Curiosity)

>[ ] Contact Ayaka to discuss your next moves in the War (Duty)

>[ ] Do something else (Write in)
>>
>>3606137
>[ ] Contact Ayaka to discuss your next moves in the War
>>
>>3606142
>[ ] Head to the kitchen for some lunch (Self-Preservation)

He needs a break, and why not have a nice lunch after a hard days work of training.
>>
>>3606142
>>[ ] Head to the kitchen for some lunch (Self-Preservation)
Ask if Ayaka wants something to eat as well?
>>
>>3606142
Well, let me rephrase.
>Check in on Ayaka before going to have Lunch
>>
>>3606142
>[ ] Contact Ayaka to discuss your next moves in the War (Duty)
>>
>>3606210
Supporting. Make sure Ayaka is okay, and if she's fine then grab a bite to eat.
>Inb4 Assassin kidnapped Ayaka so Lily can force us to come after her
>>
>>3606262
W O R R Y
O
R
R
Y
>>
3-way tie. Haven't had one of those in a while.
>>
>>3606286
I have arrived with the tiebreaker!
>>3606210
>>
>>3606286
I am >>3606210

Apologies for not linking
>>
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>>3606288
Oh.
>>
>>3606294
Your contribution is still important to the cause of keeping Ayaka from being blown into many bloody pieces! Every post counts!
>>
>>3605583
>>3605590
Now, assuming Assassin is Otto, we can deduce a few facts from his behavior.

Firstly, we saw him, but he didn't register as a Servant: this implies that his Presence Concealment was lost because he had Espionage.
Second, he didn't seem very threatened by us, and he knows we're Saber. That means he had an ace up his sleeve (some kind of counter-attacking NP?) or he was bluffing and has Vitrification (which according to complete material III also allowed Sasaki to conceal his presence to some extent, so fucking whatever).
>>
>>3606335
Well, it seems you've got it all figured out. Color me impressed. What's your verdict on his identity, then? What Germanic legend can be summoned as Assassin while also fitting the Einzbern criteria of breaking the system in their favor?
>>
>>3606426
Is his first name actually Otto? I've got nothing.
>>
>>3606448
Otto is what he told us his name was. It's probably about as much his real name as "nobody" is.
>>
Here's all we know about Otto Niemand
Physical description
>One is an old man, perhaps in his early sixties, dressed in a navy three-piece suit and antiquated cravat. The primary impression features is of carved ivory, with extremely pale skin, white shoulder-length hair, a full beard, and ice-blue eyes. It is those eyes that belie his apparent age. They seem to glimmer with a font of hidden vital energy, as if the man might at any moment burst into laughter, or spring up and attack you. The same humor in his tone as he invited you in is plainly written on his face, and he seems to examine you like a man reading a finely crafted joke with too much restraint to laugh aloud.

>Niemand, too, lets out a chuckle on hearing your introduction. "Alberich, eh? I haven't heard that in many a long year. You're a bit tall for it though, aren't you? Heh heh heh." He sweeps his eyes between you and Liliesviel before continuing, "My, you two do make a pair though. With your looks and the oddity of your names, you two really ought to be siblings. How about it, missy? I'm sure you have a use for an older brother." His eyes twinkle as he throws out the jest, no doubt hoping to prod the girl into more anger.

Seems like he wanted us to work with Liliesviel? He sort of suggested it to her.

>The second voice is a low whisper from Niemand, which seems to travel directly to your ear without passing through the surroundings. "Best of luck with the deception, Saber. I look forward to your performance."

He's aware that we're lying to his master and doesn't care, in fact he's interested to see what happens. Calling it a performance is possibly significant but probably not, maybe he enjoyed the performing arts or had some link to them.
>>
If he's Beowulf I'm gonna be so pissed
>>
>>3606463
...Hold up.
How tall is Niemand?
>>
>>3606469
I don't believe we ever saw him standing.
>>
>>3606469
>>3606478
You only saw him sitting down, but he was looking you in the eye levelly while seated. He's probably not much taller or shorter than you are.
>>
I swear to god if Niemand is actually Albrecht Höhler.
>>
>>3606491
Niemand = dutch for noone.
>>
>>3606491
Holy shit, that is a deep cut! Where did you even get that idea?
>>
>>3606491
Anon, I've made my own way-too-obscure servant guesses before as well but what in the goddamn man
>>
>>3606509
>>3606511
Well I do have a nice History degree but I was more thinking the name than anything.

Huh now that I am thinking about it, someone who is deep into History and Mythology would call out servants left and right in a Grail War.
>>
>>3606522
>See obvious Knightly servant who just took a bite out of some other servant
>Instead of going for Vlad or somesuch, call out that he must be Roger of Tosny
>"Yo what the fuck anon"
That'd be a funny as like a fanfic or something I guess
>>
>>3606522
>I was more thinking the name than anything.
I'd be more concerned about the very real possibility that our name is his name too.
>>
>>3606542
He isn't a manlet, so I'd discount it. That would be funny though, if in at least two of our first servant encounters Alberich claimed to be the servant he's facing.
>>
Is Otto's ability to whisper directly into our ear from a distance significant?
>>
>>3606548
Its definitely meta-gaming but next time we see her I want us to tell Artoria that we are Arthur just to see her mad.
>>
>>3606560
Probably very much so,
>>
>>3606565
>Sarcastically say Alberich is King Arthur if questioned on on his true name
Would support
>>
>>3606565
>ARTORIA: So you've survived, false Saber! Are you ready to reveal your true nature at last?
>ALBERICH: Sure, sure. Truth is, I'm King Arthur. Rider in this Grail War. You might have heard of me. This is my famous black sword, Excalibur. They said I was the true king of Britain after I proved I was the only one who could pull it out of that lake.
>ARTORIA: ...I despise you.
>>
Otto Skorzeny?
I'm getting too obscure too.
>>
>>3606578
inb4 I'm right and he's a literal werewolf
>>
>>3606578
There's someone I'd actually love to see as a servant from the modern period.
>>
>>3606574
Fucking beautiful XD
I support this course of action
>>
>>3606548
My google-fu tells me that, in Der Ring des Nibelungen, Alberich has a magic helmet - the Tarnhelm - which lets him change his form and turn invisible. Theoretically, changing his height a little bit wouldn't be that hard compared to the animal shapes he takes on.
The beginning of Das Rheingold would also explain both Espionage and Vitrification. The girls in charge of guarding the Rheingold don't consider Alberich to be a threat (Espionage), but he renounces love (Vitrification, which is basically mental serenity the skill), swipes the gold and bails out with the prize.

>>3606578
A cool guess, but the one we're looking for is a legendary figure. One who knows the name Alberich. And whose summoning breaks some sort of Grail War rule.
>>
>>3606600
Ooo, interesting. There's no way the first listed option in the official name vote is an actual servant in the war, right sweets? Right?
>>
>>3606600
Meh, I'm pretty sure Lily would've reacted to us telling her our name is Alberich if that was also her servant's name. I doubt that she would allow him to conceal his name from her.
>>
>>3606609
Or maybe that is why she does not think we are a servant.

"Why would Big brother Alberich be a servant is my servant is Alberich? So obviously my family made him to help me, he just so happens to take the name." - Lili's thoughts probably
>>
>>3606631
She doesn't think we're a servant because she's sure that we're a homunculus like her
>>
>>3606634
Exactly. She probably thinks Alberich as our name is nothing more than a way for her to find this new weird homunculus.
>>
>>3606643
I personally don't think her Servant is Alberich at all, it's a pretty major reach
>>
>>3606645
Everything's a major reach, given that we've seem him once and know he's assassin. We had much more to work with when dealing with Longinus and Judas, and I don't think anyone figured those out until sweets revealed them.
>>
>>3606645
While it would be kinda funny, I don't think so either. Just playing around with the idea.
>>
Any more updates tonight sweets? Or should I go to bed?
>>
>>3606692
I'm working on another update now, that I plan on having out before I go to bed.
>>
If we had more to work with, it'd be easier to make it out. I have theories, but none perfectly fit what we've seen and what we know. My best guess at the moment is Siegfried, but I just can't say for certain.

One of the things giving me the most trouble is that Lily receives a written report from her Servant. Why? Don't they have the Master and Servant mental connection? It just doesn't make sense. Is it a Noble Phantasm? A strange limitation imposed on Assassin? Lily's eccentricity at work? Maybe just Assassin's preference? There has to be a reason.
>>
>>3606692
The eternal debate
>>
Although you do find it odd for Ayaka not to have asked about what you were doing, you decide it's unlikely to be a pressing concern. Certainly if something dangerous had happened she would have alerted you by the mental link you share. What is pressing at the moment is the matter of food. It occurs to you as you finish your elemental magic training that you haven't eaten breakfast. Nor, in fact, did you eat lunch or dinner yesterday. Even for a Servant, this is surely pushing yourself too far.

So you make your way downstairs, heading for the kitchen and lunch. As you walk, you reach out over your mental link to Ayaka, asking, 'How has your morning been, Miss Ayaka? I've been training since dawn, and seem to have lost track of the time.'

'I could tell.' Ayaka sounds amused as she answers. 'You didn't show up for breakfast, so I had a look around and saw you in the library, hunched over one of our books. I figured you'd rather not be disturbed, but I bet you regret missing breakfast now, right?'

'Not only breakfast,' you answer, 'but yes, anyway. I'm on my way to the kitchen now, to try my hand at making myself some lunch.'

'You don't need to do that, you know. I was about to eat on my own. Come down and join me.'

'Gladly.'

When you arrive, you find Ayaka by a cutting board, assembling meat, vegetables, and bread. Lunch, it turns out, is western style. Roast beef sandwiches, with lettuce, tomatoes, horseradish, and red onions. As she sets the assembled food on plates for you two, Ayaka asks, "have you had these before, Saber-san? I think they're pretty good, but they don't sell sandwiches like this at the school cafeteria so I've gotten used to making them myself."

"No," you answer truthfully. They're not something you've had before, as your experience eating has been almost exclusively Japanese dishes, but you soon find that they make for a fine meal. Seeing you wolf down your sandwich, Ayaka is quick to offer you another, and you find yourself eating several without pause. It's lucky for you that Ayaka doesn't mind catering to your ravenous appetite.

"Well," you say once you're finally finished eating, "those really are lovely. Thank you for the excellent meal, Miss Ayaka."

"Oh, it was really nothing," Ayaka answers with a wan smile. "After the way you fought last night, I'd expected you to be starving. I wasn't expecting you to take an interest in our library, though. Are you a magus, Saber-san?"

"Not as such. I do possess magic circuits, and can physically channel mystic energy, but up until I began reading from your family's texts I had only the most general knowledge regarding how to implement that capability." You give this self-deprecating answer with effecting bashfulness, before continuing, "I have been making progress, however, and can hopefully show you a useful new technique when we meet our next foe."
>>
"Our next enemy, huh?" Ayaka sounds disheartened at the prospect. "I guess that would be those Emiya people you were talking about, right? If they want to prevent the Holy Grail War from finishing, it's my responsibility as Second Owner to put a stop to them."

"I wouldn't be so certain of that," you say cautiously. "As I told you before, I made a favorable impression on the Emiya family the last time we met. They believe the Einzbern family to be the primary masterminds directing the Holy Grail War. If we simply represent ourselves to them as having had a change of heart, and wanting to help them dismantle the Holy Grail, we can make use of their strength to defeat the other Masters."

"And we'd be sacrificing the enemy Servants using my ritual, so you'd be powering up as we go, is that the idea?" Ayaka sounds more suspicious of your plan than you'd hoped. In fact, her tone suggests she thinks it's extremely flawed. "After that," she continues, "you're thinking we'd betray them once we were strong enough, right?"

"That was my thought process, yes," you answer, "but you sound concerned. Why?"

"Because you aren't considering Father Antaglio, that's why!" Ayaka jabs a finger at you to emphasize her point. "If we brought in outside magi, he'd be sure to put out a reward and tell all the other Masters to fight us all at once! We'd be a threat to the balance of the War, and that's what he's there to preserve! Part of the reason the Holy Church sends a priest to oversee the War is to prevent the Masters from bringing in outside help and turning this set of duels into a real war with armies involved, you know."

"But the Emiya family is becoming involved in the Holy Grail War regardless of what we do," you protest. "That man Emiya Shirou won't stand by and wait. However misguided his conviction may be, he's utterly certain in it. I could tell that from one meeting with the fellow. Surely we could simply conceal our cooperation with them from this priest of yours."

"I guess so, maybe..." Ayaka assents hesitantly. She still sounds suspicious of the plan, but she's at least beginning to come around.

Suddenly a new thought occurs to you, and you freeze. You were thinking of your time speaking with Emiya Shirou, and remembered what you'd said to him about your identity. That man knows you used to be human, and Ayaka still believes you're a Heroic Spirit! If the two of you go to meet the Emiya family with matters as they are, your identity may well come into question. Then, as you're considering that subject, the matter of dreams comes to mind. Often, in the Akeldama, you dreamed of scenes that seemed to be from Circe's life. If Ayaka is experiencing the same link, could she have witnessed some scene from your life as a student last night? Her demeanor doesn't seem changed, but the uncertainty clings to you. You have to make a decision now, whether or not to maintain your persona as a Heroic Spirit!
>>
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Keep quiet on the subject. (Pride)

>[ ] Find another solution. (Write in)
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
Just feeling it desu
>>
>>3606812
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
It would cause too many problems down the line NOT to tell her.
If we wanted to be sure the Emiyas wouldn't tell her, we would have to ask them to keep it a secret, which might prompt them to ask why, and then we'd have to think of a good reason not to.
Also, keeping secrets from Ayaka only guarantees that they'll come out at the most inconvenient time.
>>
>>3606814
>>>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
>>Also explain how it's even possible for you to have turned into a Heroic Spirit, ie the grail war you got sucked into by Judas' NP
>Finally. Time for the reveal.
Fuck, linked the wrong post, second try.
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3606821
too lazy to delete my post so i'm linking to >>3606814
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Find another solution. (Write in)
Let's tell father antaglio about the likelihood that Shirou and company will be involving themselves in the war. We can't have them successfully destroying the grail or risk working with them.
>>
>>3606836
Again if we tell him we want to regain what was lost due to Judas's bullshit and put it in a way that means the lives that were lost, he would bend over backwards for us.

Or if he finds out we just want to be reincarnated and bring back Circe. We can turn it around and say something like "Would you not do anything to bring back the one most important to you?"
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)

Apologize, and let her down gently. Say going Into It that we'd understand If It seems too ridiculous to believe, but we have a full Akeldama story to tell to back up our claim.
>>
>>3606849
Sidenote: Thank god for rank D Charisma
>>
>>3606844
But how does this remove the risk of the priest putting a bounty on you for cheating?
>>
>>3606836
Let's not approach Antaglio. He doesn't need to know about us, but Ayaka does.
>>3606881
I think he's talking about Shirou.
Alberich does reflect Shirou's character a bit, in that they both care deeply for the people close to them and would do a lot to protect them.
>>
>>3606881
Can't put a bounty on us if we kill him.
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
I guess we're doing this.
The last Hero.

I wonder if we can properly befriend Shirou.
I mean, Shinji was his friend for gods sake.
Alberich also seems to be a magecraft prodigy, thank you, bullshit elements!
I wonder if our element combination of Sky, Void and Nothingness is rarer than being an Average One...
>>
>>3607023
A: That may not be so easy, since the overseer is an Executor to prevent these sorts of shenanigans. Risei used to be one, right? Can't remember right now
B: That would prompt the Church to send another Executor to replace Antaglio and find out who did it. The new overseer would be even stronger than the last, so if you persist then they'll either kill Ayaka or send in Ciel or some such bullshit.
>>
>>3607039
>send Ciel
>Ciel is immortal
>just throw her into Imaginary Number Space, bye Ciel, make some friends while you're there.
And no, killing an executor is very simple for a Servant, see Lancer obliterating Kotomine in UBW.
>>
There's one thing you're all forgetting about Otto.
He's an Einzbern Servant.
Meaning bullshit is afoot.
It's not impossible they've summoned an actual Divine Spirit as a servant, it would certainly explain his amusement towards us as a "finely crafted joke."
>>
Some guesses as to Otto's identity:
>Utgard-Loki could craft illusions good enough to fool even gods (one of them being Loki), so he could easily manipulate our senses. He might've used an illusion to speak to us without having to shout.
>Loki, another accomplished trickster who favored shapeshifting and sophistry, might probably still use illusions since he was conflated with Utgard-Loki.
>Alberich had his helmet, Tarnhelm, which let him shapeshift, become invisible and teleport. It would be pretty funny to him that another hero just happened to have the same name and look exactly like an Einzbern.
I'll think of more as it comes.
>>
>>3607083
>Loki
That would be a very Einzbern thing to do, actually.
>>
>>3606844
Doesn't this version of Shirou only really care about those close to him?
>>
>our go to technique with magecraft is red and black ribbons that are attached to us
Hahahahahaha
Saber rematch is looking like it's gonna be fun for some PTSD triggering.
I wonder what Rin will make of us?
She's got much more of a magus aligned way of thinking (but actually is a good person) than the rest of the Emiya faction. So she should understand just how ridiculous we are.
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
Hmm it's almost like telling Shirou about our past made no sense at all...
>>
>>3607123
Yeah but he's still Shirou.
When he has to weigh the life of somebody he cares about or complete strangers, he'd save the one he cares about.
Doesn't mean he can really tolerate innocent deaths though.
He just has his priorities sorted out.
>>
>>3607126
At the time it made a lot of sense.
>"This man is a servant!"
>"You're right lol what are you gonna do about it?"
>Rider activates eyes and crushes us easily
>>
So I am not totally sold on this, and just wanted to discuss it. Now this might be crazy, but what if the Ezinberns wanted a servant who could plan and strategize their way through the war, so if we are looking at an assassin with espionage and who calls themself Otto, is there any reason it cant be Bismarck besides the fact that it is too obvious and Sweets might be trying to trick us.

Bismarck would certainly be aware fully of Alberich's legend considering the piece that fleshed it out was created when he was alive.
>>
>>3607133
A good tactician wouldn't be happy having their base in the top floor of a tower like Kayneth.
>>
>>3607133
>active from 1860 to 1890
Born too late, didn't do impossible enough things.
>>
Hmm.
I wonder if we could summon something like a Valkyrie through our sword...
>>
>>3607143
Maybe we should start small, go for a Monstrous Beast like a Kelpie or something.
Then we progress to a Phantasmal Species.
Finally we should be good enough to control a Divine animal.
>>
>>3606814
Okay, new plan
We can tell Father about the F/SN crew.

If we impress upon him the severity of the threat to the war, he might put a stop to the fighting and have every servant and master sent after them for some kind of reward. We could team up with them and learn more about them, and absorb the energy of those killed by the OP squad.
>>
>>3607151
Hahahaha.
That is an awful plan!
>>
>>3606134
>These are Nothingness, which fills the roles of Earth, Water, Wind, and Fire; and Void, which fills the role of Sky.
Could we materialize nothingness that acts like fire then?
>>
>>3607155
How so? It's not as awful as teaming up with Shirou.
>>
>>3607155
It's an awful plan because causing a clusterfuck is always gonna go poorly.
You remember the last servant clusterfuck we caused? We got shot in the leg.
Also Shirou could rulebreaker Saber and Rin could contract her.
>>
>>3607171
>Also Shirou could rulebreaker Saber and Rin could contract her.
That could happen anyway.
>>
>>3607167
Eh, teaming up with Shirou is a solid plan.
Being able to keep an eye on him being a dumb shit is helpful and he's a rather predictable man.
Also Alberich just can't help but like him.
>>3607176
I feel that it's more likely to happen if we betray them and throw a clusterfuck at them for no reason
>>
>>3607180
Don't forget that Rin, Rider, and Sakura are working with him too and most likely limiting his typical dumbshit decisions
>>
>>3607188
Honestly we'd be best off finding out why Rin had scheduled a visit to the Emiyas before they possibly could've told her, at least.
Coincidence? Not likely.
Also I want to tell Medusa that Perseus died like a fucking pleb.

Anyway, Vaisset broke that rule of the grail war the moment he had Caster use Akeldama.

Hmm
I wonder if Lily was created using Illya as a template.
Illya was the best grail vessel made so far after all.
>>
>>3607204
The difference is that Akeldama could be kept secret.
>>
>>3607349
If there were no survivors, sure.
>>
>>3607039
Risei used to be an executor, yes.

>>3606713
>One of the things giving me the most trouble is that Lily receives a written report from her Servant. Why? Don't they have the Master and Servant mental connection? It just doesn't make sense. Is it a Noble Phantasm? A strange limitation imposed on Assassin? Lily's eccentricity at work? Maybe just Assassin's preference? There has to be a reason.
Thanks for picking up on this, ID. There's nothing I enjoy more than seeing you folks puzzling over some detail. Makes me glad I'm running a quest in a setting with as much mystery as Fate.

>>3606762
I laughed. Very nice; always glad to see more edits.

General question to you folks:
I've noticed several other QMs have dedicated twitter accounts. I don't have one in my daily life, bit would you like it if I set one up for quest update notifications, in case I ended up having a break between threads for some reason?
>>
>>3607357
>a setting with as much mystery as Fate
nice pun
>twitter account
Sure, why not? The people with accounts could use one.
>>
>>3607357
>twitter
I don't mind, honestly.
I don't use it either but they are nice things for a QM to have to talk to their audience without creating a new thread or wading into the cesspool that is /qtg/ I guess.
>>
>>3607357
If you feel you need it. I don't really do twitter myself, but I'm sure some anons do.
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
Better now than later when it can bite us in the ass at the wrong moment.
>>3607357
It could be pretty useful for announcements about updates or new threads since I doubt a lot of people keep thread open 24/7. But only if you feel like it,
>>
>>3607396
I mean, you could just pin the thread.

And yeah, I don't doubt the long term consequences of lying further. I'm not sure about the short term consequences.
Worst case is she assumes we let Vaisset die as some act of revenge.
We didn't, we were just outmatched by the worst possible opponent.
She also knows our capabilities are just as good as a heroic spirits by watching us just tear Rider apart.
Now is really the best time for it.

Vaisset was kinda growing on me too, might as well avenge him.

I do wonder the reason behind Ayaka somehow discerning our original identity somewhat when we were first introduced.
Perhaps our mannerisms or speaking style? She'd have to have been pretty stalkery towards Rushorou for her to be able to discern that, but Rushorou had a lot of secret admirers due to being the school's aloof student council president bishounen.
>>
>>3607396
>I doubt a lot of people keep thread open 24/7
What? You mean you don't?
>>
>>3607396
>>3607424

I do.....
>>
>>3607396
>>3607424
>>3607432
Same.
>>
>>3607416
>Worst case is she assumes we let Vaisset die as some act of revenge.
I feel like it was possibility before fight with Rider. She still could use command spell to tell us to fall on our sword but it feels a lot less likely now than before. It is also likely that she saw portion of our past, perhaps Akeldama, so putting 2 and 2 together for her will take small amount of time.
>Vaisset was kinda growing on me too, might as well avenge him.
Yeah, Harris should die.
>>3607424
I commit grave sin of actually turing off my computer from time to time. I know I am worse than Sakura for doing so.
>>
>>3607432
>>3607435
I also do this.
>>
>>3607440
>worse than Sakura
She did nothing wrong, anon.
>>
>>3607440
>worse than Sakura
Hey, 99% of humanity is worse than Sakura. Don't feel so bad.
>>
And speaking of Rider. Does anybody else feel like he was more of a "tutorial boss" rather than fearsome opponent? Because all other Servants in Akeldama or in this War feel a lot more potentially dangerous.
>>3607443
>>3607444
Thanks for going all Heaven`s Feel on me, lads.
>>
>>3607444
I wish Sakura didn't have such bad publicity.
I blame secondaries perpetuating the meme.
I also blame Carnival Phantasm for shitting on her for no reason.
>>
>>3607457
Oh come on, really? I seriously tried to make that fight feel dangerous and threatening! What did I do wrong?

>>3607459
I have to tell you, she was my second-favorite character even in Carnival Phantasm.
But then, as you know I have a fondness for yanderes.
>>
>>3607457
>Rider
Rider as a class aren't really supposed to fight Sabers in melee, they are supposed to use their multiple NPs and mounts to overwhelm other Servants.
We however turned his mount into a pile of limbs which made him berserk, then he actually went full madness enhancement.
>>
>>3606814
>[ ] Tell Ayaka you were once Yumigawa Rushorou. (Self-Preservation)
No real reason to keep it from her at this stage.

Just a reminder to everyone that this might be our last chance to abort working with the Emiyas. If anyone has objections to the plan, speak now or forever hold your peace.

If not, it might be smart to decide ahead of time exactly what kind of relationship we want to have with the Emiyas so the thread doesn't get held up once we're there. I think it's pretty clear that we should avoid open collaboration as much as possible so we don't get a bounty on our heads, but we can at least share a little information and agree to end the war with minimal collateral damage.

>>3607357
>There's nothing I enjoy more than seeing you folks puzzling over some detail.
If only you could watch me sit here and try to sort the mysteries out. You'd have a ball.
As for the twitter: if you think it would help, go for it.

>>3607440
>I commit grave sin of actually turing off my computer from time to time.
Who are you, Shinji?

>>3607457
I think it only felt like that because we read him so well and didn't get killed. There's also the fact that Rider is the first Servant in the quest we've fought on relatively even ground - every other Servant has dwarfed us in power, either by us being not a Servant yet or by running into Kishi Ou and her bullshit.
>>
>>3607457
He does feel like a bit of a tutorial boss, yeah.
>unbreakable sword forces you to fight smart instead of running him over with brute force
>Brigliadoro teaches you the value of maneuvering by forcing you to get into a position where Roland can't escape despite the absurd speed boost
>Orlando Furioso is where you put both of these lessons into practice, getting a feel for his new stats and luring him into a trap so you can finish him
>if you don't finish the job quickly enough he calls in Charlemagne to kick your ass, so after you injure him badly you're on a timer or you would be if you outnumbered him
>>
>>3607469
I think anons are too used to dying from trying to 1v1 servants with stats far inferior to a servant and getting wrecked.
I thought there was a significant risk, there always is, fighting a Rider.
They almost always have a trump card NP or skill to ruin your day.
>>
>>3607473
You know what would work for collaboration without the organisers finding out?
A phone.
Use one of those encrypted messaging apps.
Easy.
>>
>>3607481
>A phone.
GAH! What modern blasphemy is this? Don't you have any faith in magic?
>>
>>3607482
And this is why Kiritsugu was so successful.
But I digress
I don't have much faith in Shirou's magic, no.
>>
>>3607469
I mean I really liked the fight it is just subverted my expectations because of how smoothly it went. I fully expected him to be as hard to put down and last as long in the war as Teach did.
>>
>>3607491
Well, I wanted it to be more of a hard and fast direct fight, since I have a habit of dragging things out. Still, every choice in that fight had either one or two DEAD END options, so I really didn't expect you to get through it so easily.
>>
>>3607491
>everything goes perfectly according to our plan
>subverted expectations
This is what you have reduced us to, Sweets.

and it's hilarious.
>>
>>3607481
Does Ayaka have a phone? If so, that could be pretty effective. We'd definitely need an encrypted messaging app, though, since I don't trust Sweets not to give Harris a Stingray just to fuck us over for not taking that precaution.

>>3607482
>t. El-Melloi Archibald

>>3607495
It was definitely fast, that's for sure. There may have been a lot of DEAD END choices, but Roland became incredibly easy to read the second we figured out who he was. He was also built to be outnumbered, and he fought us in a one-on-one, so his strongest abilities were useless.
>>
>>3607525
It's really quite sad, that if Alberich had it his way and stacked the deck against Roland he would have had a much better time of it. Him challenging the True Seibah to a mano y mano duel was a fatal mistake.
>>
>>3607525
>built to fight multiple enemies at once
>challenges opponents to 1 on 1 duels.
Roland might in fact be an idiot.
I thought Astolfo was meant to be the idiot of their group.
As for Ayaka, we'll probably have to ask.
Even Rin has a phone (granted she locked it in the most secure place in the house because magi hate machines, but still.)
>>
Revolver Rushorou.... one day....
>>
>>3607525
>The StingRay is an IMSI-catcher, a controversial cellular phone surveillance device, manufactured by Harris Corporation
Intentional?
Also yeah, just use Whatsapp or w/e the in universe copyright free equivalent would be named.
>>
>>3607473
I object to this plan completely. By working with them we're risking the father's wrath, and with that comes increased scrutiny that could expose us as a false servant. Also there's the obvious risks of our true evil nature being found out by Shirou, the risk of dying during our inevitable betrayal, and the risk of them succeeding in dismantling the grail which fucks us over completely.
>>
>>3607580
But why?
We don't need a gun.
>>
>>3607581
Didn't they recently find a massive security flaw in that which hackers were using to pull information off people's phones?
>>
There's nothing for it, you decide. You have to tell Ayaka the truth. About your first identity, about what happened to you inside the Akeldama, all of it!

"Before we go on," you say, "I have something to tell you, Miss Ayaka; something very important about my nature as a Servant."

"Oh?" Ayaka perks up. "Have you remembered something about who you really are?"

"That's just it, you see..." You trail off for a moment, hesitating, before steeling yourself to continue. "I never lost my memories, Miss Ayaka. I've been keeping my identity a secret, first from your brother and then from you, because I was worried that it might interfere with the War. Now, however, I feel I must tell you the truth."

"You were-" Ayaka chokes off an indignant squeal as a flush of anger rushes into her face. "Fine," she says, forcibly calming herself, "go on."

"How much did your brother tell you about Caster?"

"I'm not sure what you mean." Ayaka looks at you with confusion. "Wednesday night, when he summoned you, at first he ran up out of his workshop to tell me he'd summoned Caster. Then he went back down, and later, when I went down to have a look, it turned out that he'd actually summoned you. He said you were really Saber and that he'd been confused, right? You were there, you must remember."

"So that's all you know," you mutter gravely. "In that case, I must start from the beginning. Your brother did summon Caster; a vile spirit whose true name doesn't bear mentioning, and a Servant with a truly diabolical Noble Phantasm: Akeldama. It held the power to create a pocket of space and time, with no time passing outside as long as events occured within it, and to summon there numerous people. Caster used it shortly after being summoned, drawing to himself over a thousand individuals. Some were magi, some, like myself, were not. There, he compelled us to fight one another with the promise of the Holy Grail. The true object of this conflict, and the purpose of Akeldama, was to absorb our spirits as sacrifices to Caster, empowering him greatly once we had all perished. I won't bore you with the details of the fighting, but in the end only I and a few others survived. I slew Caster with my own hands, and by killing him was forced to absorb the collected energy of the dead and take his place as a Servant."

Ayaka's face goes white as you tell the story, but her expression stiffens as if to keep from betraying emotion. As you draw the story to a close, she finally says in a low, barely audible voice, "I guess he should have been the Shijou successor, not me. To plan a human sacrifice on that scale..."
>>
>>3607586
>Implying implications
>>
Then she rallies, getting her voice back to a more normal tone, "Anyway, it makes sense for you at least. If you'd already been taking in that much energy, it explains why it was so easy for your spirit to process the new energy from Rider. But please, finish your story. What kind of person were you before you became a Servant? What's your real name, anyway?"

"You should know what kind of person I was by my name," you say, feeling a rogue urge to chuckle despite the serious mood. "Although I have been transformed utterly by the Akeldama's power, I was born as Yumigawa Rushorou. I spent 17 years living in Tokyo, and was until recently a student at Kyoutenkan Academy. I confess I didn't know you personally, but I dare say I was well-known enough at school that you knew me." Now Ayaka freezes in shock once again, before a high, stuttering, disbelieving laugh falls from her lips.

"Ha- aha- heheha... That's impossible, Saber-san. I just saw President Yumigawa on Friday." Then the anger comes back into her expression. "How dare you lie to me like this? Why would you do that? Taking a name that's so obviously someone else's? I didn't mind you not having memories; I could even forgive you if you said you had to keep your true name a secret from me for some practical reason! But this? You'd lie to me about who you are? Was everything else you just said a lie too?"

>[ ] How do you respond?
>>
Speaking of things not going according to plan, here's this update!
>>
>>3607584
>the risk of them dismantling the grave
Safely dismantling it takes years.
We might not even have to betray them
>"Our true evil nature"
Shirou is literally living in the same house as a Monster that easily amassed hundreds of kills in her life.
And Medusa It's just a joke, take no offence
Besides, it's unlikely we're gonna go on a killing spree or do anything evil.
We're a self-serving asshole at worst.
We're not outright malicious.
>>
>>3607597
>[ ] How do you respond?
Has Yumigawa Rushorou been absent since I've been Summoned? He had a perfect record and was a model student. Surely he would've at least notified the council before being reported absent.
>>
>>3607597
Jumped the gun on my vote a little, but I'm honestly pretty confused. I thought we were noted as absent from school when we escorted Ayaka. I assume I'm fucking up the timeline in my head, and would really appreciate some clarification.
>>
>>3607600
Well, fuck me sideways.
>>3607608
It's very bad, anon.
We've been Saber since Thursday.
Unless she's somehow mistaken.
I'm so confused.
>>
>>3607597
Called it
>>
>>3607620
We've been Saber since Thursday, but we apparently showed up on Friday? What day were we noted as absent from school?
>>
>>3607627
Friday, I think baseball kid talked about us being absent.
>>
>>3607597
>I just saw President Yumigawa on Friday.
Fancy. Rider`s Master mentioned that we were absent from school during thursday.
>>
You were summoned on Wednesday night. Yumigawa Rushorou was absent on Thursday, which Kajiwara Haruo noticed and was talked about at school, since the StuCo Pres had never missed a day before. On Friday, Ayaka says she saw you at school.
>>
>>3607635
Alright, so what I'm thinking is that Caster doesn't truly kidnap people, just steal a significant portion of their spirit. Which causes them to basically become really sick until their spirit can heal itself. Caster only needed to absorb the energy of their spirit right? He doesn't need their fleshy meat bodies.
But since we killed Caster, we're left around as a copy of the original Yumigawa Rushorou.
>>
>>3607635
So listing out everything that only somebody intimately familiar with Yumigawa Rushorou would know would be the way to go then.
>>
>>3607647
It could also be that somebody cleaned up after Akeldama leaving bunch of puppets in place of missing people.
>>
>>3607653
Eeeeeeh, don't magi just kill all witnesses? Replacing them with puppets seems like an unnecessary step that reeks of kindness. And I thought puppets were a dying art outside of that one chick with a sealing designation?
>>
>>3607635
Oh no, it's all gone to shit.
Well let's see our options
Option number 1: she's hallucinating our appearance at school somehow
Option number 2: someone stole our identity
Option number 3: upon reaching the silver grail and being modified, we were in fact copied and changed, the original Yumigawa Rushorou was sent back to reality and replaced by the Conceptual Rushorou.
Option 4: Everyone in Akeldama is a copy
>>
>>3607666
Option number 3 also explains the absence, as even Yumigawa would've needed a day to recover from the cities.
>>
>>3607597
>"Information is power, Miss Ayaka. Knowledge, and controlling it, was what saw me through much of the False Grail War. Suppose I came out and told your brother that I was not a hero of legend who could easily see you and him through the War, but rather was a schoolboy who by iron and blood triumphed against impossible odds to get here."
From here, just start listing things that the only a student intimately involved with the processes at Kyoutenkan Academy would or should know.
>>
>>3607674
>by iron and blood
Adelheid really made an impact on you, I see.
>>
>>3607597
Well then we need to show her we are not lying. So I guess go to sleep for that shared memory bit.

Also it might be wise to investigate this fake (Oh god I hope its a fake).
>>
>>3607677
A little callback to the "final solution" saving grace. I like to think that Alberich inadvertently copying important phrases from German history is a real thing, and not just that one time.
>>
>>3607666
>We are a copy and Circe is with the real Rushorou

Fuck.
>>
>We might be the EMIYA of Yumigawa
O fuck boys
>>
>>3607684
Speaking of the dream cycle, did Ayaka not sleep last night? I figured seeing our memories would have made this way easier. Unless she saw snippets of the False War where our body had already changed dramatically.
>>
>>3607693
She slept. I won't tell you just what she saw, but dreams are often vague and confused.
>>
>>3607666
I think 3 is most likely
>>
>>3607691
I swear, if this is true...
>>
>>3607691
Circe didn't know what we looked like pre-grail IIRC
>>
>>3607658
>witnesses
To mass disappearing of people during one night in Tokyo. It would make sense of Mage`s Association or Church to try to maintain vision of normality and peace in the city during duration of War rather than creating new urban legend for people to wander the streets during the night searching for missing people risking walking into Servants fighting each other.
>And I thought puppets were a dying art outside of that one chick with a sealing designation?
I recall she was just miles better than rest of practitioners?
>>
I feel like I am in denial mode right now and I am just going to assume its a Caster because this war is fucked in terms of what servants are fighting.

Though if its Number 2 of this>>3607666 then maybe its Assassin or something. The whole reason we were curious about the note was because it specifically said something about surviving Akeldama.
>>
>>3607718
>it specifically said something about surviving Akeldama.
It did?
>>
It is wasteful and double edged but we can tell her to use command spell to make us confirm the thing we just told her.
>>
>>3607691
Would Circe acknowledge this Yumigawa as the same?
He can't eat Kykeon.
He doesn't look the same
His magic circuits are likely terrible.
Not a hero.

Adelheid meanwhile definitely wouldn't, not after our conversation.
>>
>>3607722
That's... not a completely horrible idea. Horribly wasteful like you said, but it'd settle things without a doubt.
>>
>>3607721
I recall something like that.
>>
>>3607718
>>3607721
What note specifically are you referring to?
>>
>>3607597
Go investigate our home, or wherever Yumigawa should be right now. We have t see for ourselves
>>
>>3607746
When the Limo first started following us and we got a note.
>>
>>3607752
Anon...
That...
That was from the Einzbern.
>>
>>3607752
All it said was "How did you escape?"
>>
>>3607756
Ah I figured that was for Akeldama but now that I think about it if the Einzberns thought we were a homunculus.
>>
>>3607756
Was that from Stachel or Stengel? It wouldn't have really made sense for Lily or Otto.
>>
>>3607765
All you know is that it came out of the limo.
>>
We need to find this Yumigawa Rushorou, be he real or fake, and question him, if he is somehow connected to his servants from the Akeldama war and is the same Rushorou from the war, he is possibly our greatest enemy.
>>
>>3607779
>We, Alberich, Rushorou's EMIYA, are also dead-set on killing our former self.
Lel
>>
>>3607768
We should've been able to see which window it came from right?
>>
>>3607780
>Akeldama was our Fate route
>We are now on the UBW route
HF route when?
>>
>>3607779
If he was sent back home when we became conceptual then there's no way he has our command seals.
>>
>>3607793
I don't think anyone likes Rushorou enough to be considered his Sakura
>>
>>3607791
One of the rear windows

>>3607793
It'd be once you get this route's true end, wouldn't it?
>>
>>3607597
>>3607674
Supporting this write in, for now at least.
>>
>>3607793
>>3607801
It will be Saber and acceptance of being a Servant.
>>
>>3607796
That's what I would like to think.
God damn.
This was a plot twist I was both dreading and not expecting.
Very well done.

We should ring up Keiseki's construction company and inquire as to his whereabouts in a non-incriminating way.
If he isn't dead we know we've been fucked.
>>
>>3607822
>Implying anyone could determine the difference between Keiseki and a soulless magical replacement
Man, if we had just checked on Matsuda or Kikuko back during thread one....
>>
Oh and
Option Number 6: Ayaka is just fucking with us to gauge our reaction
>>
>>3607828
Why would Akeldama be designed to make replacements? There'd be two of every other survivor once they returned.
>>
>>3607828
If wishes were horses, anon.
>>
>>3607828
>But muh dangers!
Don't even think about doing it now, btw.
>>
>>3607597
Well that's not good.

>>3607674
Supporting, but I suggest replacing the first two sentences with "Someone once told me that a man's life depends on his information."
If she still doesn't believe us, tell her she should use a command spell to force us to tell her the truth about our past. It's risky and costly, but we can't have Ayaka doubting us.

>>3607828
Harris was probably tracking us back then. We would only have put them in immense danger.
That said, Matsuda would be the one to talk to if we want to confirm that theory. If his two boys who died at the start are still intact, then we've been had.
>>
>>3607834
That would actually make me like her even more.
>>
>>3607666
>Inb4 Caster Isn't dead at all, but lives on Inside the original Yumigawa Rushorou's body as a backup plan In case he were not the victor of the Akeldama. He bides his time, waiting for his chance to claim the true grail for himself, In secret.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>
>>3607666
>Option number 2: someone stole our identity
This is what I'm thinking, this is what I hope and will assume until it's been proven otherwise.
As such.

>>3607597
GET FUCKING MAD
How dare some imposter in our skin go around pretending to be us!
How dare they think they could steal the face and life of the great Yumigawa Rushorou!
Make her tell us where this scoundrel is, we need to investigate this immediately!
>>
>>3607844
I personally don't give a fuck about our old identity and I don't think Alberich really did either.
>>
I really think we're the copy guys
>>
Tbh, I really wanted to finally get that Yoshikage Kira introduction but I don't have sufficient personal details of Rushorou's life so as to format it properly as a response to Ayaka.
>>
>>3607836
If it's anything, it's probably a result of the silver grail enpowering us
Or well, maybe copying our memories, I guess?
I hope.
Means we don't have to deal with an absolute madman in this war.
>>
>>3607843
Wait

>Caster also has Circe and Adelhied

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Well at least they'd be alive
>>
>>3607852
No, you've definitely got enough information. One anon wrote it up in Awakening Mirror Part I or II, you can find it if you go back and look.
>>
>>3607852
Maybe Sweets could help with that?
>>
>>3607855
>one trick pony Caster summoned in a normal human body controlling Circe.
Haha. No.
>>
>>3607848
That was back when we thought Yumigawa Rushorou was "dead'.
If there is some fucker walking around ruining the legacy of our past life we need to put a stop to that.
It's a matter of Pride damn it!
>>
>>3607852
>>3607857
Or, y'know, just write it up and tell me what info you're missing.
>>
>>3607857
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3491019/#p3498598
This one?
>>
>>3607865
Hey look, there it is!
>>
>>3607866
If you're referring to my own writing of
>My name is Yumigawa Rushorou. I'm 18 years old. My former house is on the opposite side of where all the mansions are, and I am not married. I worked as the Kaichou of Kyoutenkan Academy, and I got home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, and I’m too young to drink. I was in bed by 11 PM, and I made sure that I got eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually had no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I woke up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who used to have a very quiet life. I now choose to trouble myself by destroying my enemies, winning great battles, and I often lose sleep at night. This is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. And, if and when I decide to fight, I couldn’t lose to anyone.
I don't think it has sufficient detail of Rushorou's personal pre-Akeldama life to serve as a (admittedly memey) response to Ayaka's accusations.
>>
>>3607859
Thing Is, we don't know how the Akeldama works.

We just know what he *told* us. For all we know, he could have a backup plan where even when he loses, he wins. He could very have lost his place as a servant, but then thus taken his prize as swapping himself for the winner. If the winner has to lose their mortal body to become a servant, then a noble phantasm that materializes and warps space, time, and drags souls down Into a pocket space could very well do a soul swap. Take yumigawa, put him In a servant vessel. Take Caster, put him In the empty shell of Yumigawa. Fortunately for Caster, that shell has command seals doesn't It?
>>
>>3607873
Alright, ask away. What specific info do you need?
>>
>>3607876
A "soul swap" isn't such an easy thing to accomplish.
A copy of a heroic spirits soul should destroy the old Rushorou's body as it would have dreadful compatibility.
Shirou can't even use Archer's arm without starting to die.
If such a thing was possible, then Medea would've just gtfo out of Fuyuki.
>>
>>3607879
Was Rushorou ever frequent anonymous imageboards user?
Did he ever had a waifu?
Do we still remember our password and login on Saberfacebook to add Ayaka to our friend list there?
>>
>>3607879
Eating habits would be nice.
>>
>>3607863
I suppose I'd like something along the lines of

>My name was Yumigawa Rushorou. I'm 18 years old. My house was in [Insert particular regional information, not merely relative to our current surroundings], and I was not in a relationship. I was the Class President of Kyoutenkan Academy where I [insert particular details of day-to-day school life], and I got home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, although I have drank before. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After [insert normal home rituals Rushorou partook in before sleeping]. I used to have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I used to be a person who lived a very quiet life. I had no enemies, no troubles, and no true direction. I now live an elevated existence, fundamentally altered by experiences in the Akeldama. I [Insert current motivational statement, as I'm sure you could do it far better than I ever could].
>>
>>3607898
Essentially, a perversion of Kira's description written in the past tense and focused on how Rushorou used to live.
>>
Well, at least we've got another thing in common with Shirou.

I just hope Yumigawa Two has not got any memories of the war.
Especially post summoning Caster.
>>
...
Time to kill ourself?
What do we do with our inferior prototype?
Ayaka seemed to get very upset over us bringing up Yumigawa.
Odds she's one of our/His admirers?

Damn it, Rushorou, why must you be so accidentally charming?
>>
>>3607898
>Regional information: the Yoyogi neighborhood, in the northern part of Shibuya. This was mentioned when Rushorou told Matsuda his life story.
>lifestyle: "where I worked to be a perfect honor student and maintain the student government correctly"
>Rituals: actually the warm milk and stretching was correct. If you go back and check the beginning of Fate/City Akeldama, I put it in the background.
>Motivational statement: A quiet lifestyle no longer appeals to me, and I have resolved to surpass all others in the Moonlit World!
>>
>>3607972
We need to bring up that she seemed to recognize us as Yumigawa when we first met.
>>
>>3607894
Rusjorou didn't have strong preferences as to what he would or wouldn't eat. His mother only cooked Japanese food in the strict tradition, though, an he mostly ate at home, so his culinary experience is somewhat narrow.
>>
>>3607976
Ok can i support the Kirarant after the rant bring up her somehow recognising us and ask us if she has any questions that might satisfy her?
Honestly she could be helpful for getting to the bottom of this.
We're just as confused as she is.
Maybe also ask her about the dream cycle?
>>
>>3607674
>>3607976
Well then, I'd ask that you append

>My name was Yumigawa Rushorou. I'm 18 years old. My house was in the Yoyogi neighborhood, in the northern part of Shibuya, and I was not in a relationship. I was the Class President of Kyoutenkan Academy where I worked to be a perfect honor student and maintain the student government correctly, and I got home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I didn't smoke, although I have drank before. I was in bed by 11 PM, and I made sure I got eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I would have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I woke up without any fatigue or stress. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I used to be a person who lived a very quiet life. I had no enemies, no troubles, and no true direction. However, such a quiet lifestyle no longer appeals to me, and I have resolved to surpass all others in the Moonlit World!

to the end of my write in, >>3607674
>>
>>3607976
I feel like that last part, while true, would put her off/harm our case.
>>
>>3608008
I think that announcing our intention to takeover the Moonlit World is a bad idea. It should be pretty obvious why.

Additionally, >>3607979 is probably a good idea.
>>
>>3608006
Alright yeah, let's just scratch off the part where we go from Kira to DIO.
Maybe do so in a less DIO-ish way?
>>
>>3608006
>ask us if she has any questions that might satisfy her?
I still feel it would be great to add things ours and her age group was growing up with. Like favourite shows, characters, culture etc. Something a normal Servant would have no way of ever knowing because he did not consume it as audience. Kirarant is great but small things like that could work even better or greatly add on top of that.
>>
>>3608038
This could work as well.
>>
Wait, guys if we so use a command seal, make sure the question is specific, we identify as Alberich now, we don't want to accidentally say that.
>>
>>3608035
But going from Kira to DIO is your character arc!
But seriously, write whatever you want to say; I was just filling in the blanks.
>>
>>3608086
Shirou: Bastard... How many servants have you absorbed to gain this power?
Alberich: Do you remember how many breads you have eaten in your life?
>>
>>3608096
>Do you remember how many bowls of rice you've cooked in your life?
>ALBERIIIIIICH!
>>
Master poast then

>>3607597

>"Someone once told me that a man's life depends on his information. Suppose I came out and told your brother that I was not a hero of legend who could easily see you and him through the War, but rather was a schoolboy who by iron and blood triumphed against impossible odds to get here. What then would follow? Nothing good, to be sure."
*pause*
Now, I figure Rushoberich's voice has changed through his various transformations, so let's go for as good of an approximation of his pre-Akeldama voice as we can for the next set of lines.
>My name was Yumigawa Rushorou. I'm 18 years old. My house was in the Yoyogi neighborhood, in the northern part of Shibuya, and I was not in a relationship. I was the Class President of Kyoutenkan Academy where I worked to be a perfect honor student and maintain the student government correctly, and I got home every day by 8 PM at the latest. [Insert some personal memories about being Kaichou that a basic profile of Rushorou wouldn't include]. I didn't smoke, although I have drank before. I was in bed by 11 PM, and I made sure I got eight hours of sleep, no matter what. In my youth, I [insert Rushorou engaging in some trendy, time-specific activity a rando servant should have no knowledge of]. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I would have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I woke up without any fatigue or stress. I'm trying to explain that I used to be a person who lived a very quiet life. I had no enemies, no troubles, and no true direction. When we first met, you uttered my old name and recognized me somehow, did you not?
>>
>>3608133
Voice change would be fucking creepy
>>
>>3608133
Supporting.
We should prrrobably also mention that the presence of Yumigawa is deeply troubling.
>>
>>3608221
Actually, you're probably right.
Maybe just go for a more Rushorou way of speaking, if there is a difference.
>>
>>3608221
Perhaps. If most aren't in favor of it, it's not exactly a hill to die on for me.
>>
>>3608133
Aside from the voice change, this sounds good.

After giving it some thought, I've conceived of a possible worst-case scenario for this new Yumigawa:
The split didn't occur at the beginning of Akeldama as has been suggested, but at the end. Further, Judas did indeed mean that our connection would sustain our Servants in the outside world. New Yumi is also Grailed Yumi, and Circe and Adelheid are his servants. People can't tell he's different because of some form of magic cast by Circe, and he's fallen back into his routine life for now, waiting to strike. Ayaka can't sense his command spells because of how badly he fucked his Master-Servant connection. There are now two Rushorous who both know of the Tokyo Grail War, want to win it, and want to become a ruling force in the Moonlit World. They're staying outside the war, using Circe's ridiculous magic power to learn about it, monitor it, interfere as they please and snake away the prize. The final boss will be our other self, flanked by our own dear Servants.
>>
>>3608292
>The final boss will be our other self, flanked by our own dear Servants.
Fuck that would hurt so much.
>>
>>3608292
No way sweets is that evil Right?
>>
>>3608292
This would be a worst case scenario, yes.
I don't know if Sweets would fuck us over that hard though.
I don't want to have to kill our inferior clone.
>>
>>3608321
But I will.
>>
>>3608321
Fuck the inferior clone, it's the girls I don't want to hurt.
>>
>>3608292
Sheeeeeit

that'd be pretty hype though ngl.

Sweets, did Yumigawa have any social media presence?
>>
>>3608329
Yeah, that's why I don't want to kill him.
>>
>>3608331
Sorry, wrong picture there.
>>
>>3608321
>Defeat Rushorou with a road roller
>"This is proof that no one can surpass Alberich!"
>"Puny Humans! I shall rule you all!"
>"Bow before my knowledge and might!"

>>3608331
I mean, literally anything. Just some kind of modern namedrop.
>>
>>3608331
>>3608334
WORRY.
>>
>>3608335
>Wrong picture
We're on to you sweets
>>
File: Close to being trendy.jpg (735 KB, 1280x960)
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>>3608133
Rushorou didn't do trendy, time-specific things, remember? He had no personal interests. I'll mention your sewing hobby.
>>
>>3608348
So he wouldn't know what's trending even via hearsay?
>>
>>3608354
He might have, but frankly I don't know what was trendy for the generation of kids that's 18 now.
>>
>>3608360
Well, there's this cool gacha game called FGO...
>>
>>3608348
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Wrong image eh...?
Also god damn it Rushorou was boring before he started killing.

I would really not enjoy facing grailed Yumi with all our memories and both our servants.
>>
>>3608362
First that doesn't work for obvious reasons.
Second, I thought this was supposed to be something he did when he was a kid. FGO came out four years ago.
>>
>>3608340
>>3608367
You're on to me. I keep files in alphabetic order and sometimes click on the wrong one.
>>
>>3608360
Dunno if this is how it worked for you guys but in my HS the student council ran a Twitter account that we could check for event announcements and suspensions and shit. Did he do that in any capacity?
>>
>>3608368
You could mention very popular shounen manga other boys would have talked about when he was a kid. Stuff like Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach... or just make something up.
>>
>>3608379
I wonder if Dragon Ball would give Sun Wukong an absolutely bullshit fame bonus.
>>
>>3608385
Probably not since that's Goku, not Sun Wukong. They're not as close-knit as Vlad and Dracula.
>>
>>3608398
Son Gokū is quite literally the Japanese name of Sun Wukong.
>>
>>3608401
Yes, I understand that. I still find it unlikely that Sun Wukong would be buffed by his derivatives, though.
>>
Here's an an example: You don't see Artoria having the Holy Hand Grenade as one of her Noble Phantasms.
>>
>>3608419
This is probably a bad example, since she's essentially timelocked, but you get the idea. When you think Vlad Tepes, you buy into the stories that he drank the blood of his enemies, the stories that birthed Dracula.
>>
>>3608362
>Al borrows Ayaka's phone and immediately whales for NP5 Circe
>>
>>3608419
Well obviously.
But their renown does play a part in their power regardless.
>>
>>3608432
In that case, yeah, Dragonball should help him be as strong in Japan as he would be in China, if not slightly less due to diminishing returns. When most people think Sun Wukong they think of the Monkey King, when they think Son Goku they think of a retard-strong space monkey. When you think Vlad, however, you think Dracula. That's the difference, they're still two distinct entities.
>>
>>3608450
Honestly, Sun Wukong would already be a broken as fuck Servant.
His legend is ridiculous.
>>
>>3608462
Well yeah, he would be a Divine Spirit.
>>
Now it's your turn to be shocked into speechlessness. She saw you at school on Friday? That's obviously impossible, but if so, what did she see? Has someone stolen your identity somehow? Is there some magus walking around in a replica of your body?

No matter. The steely mental discipline forged by the incessant combat you've faced since awakening in Akeldama takes hold, forcing you to face the needs of the immediate future. Ayaka has to be calmed down, first and foremost. You need to prove to her that you are the person born Yumigawa Rushorou, and none other. Your mind races. No, perhaps it's better to justify your deception before moving on to the proof of your identity. It was for victory that you hid the truth, after all, and that's surely something Ayaka can sympathize with. You clear your throat, suddenly dry with suppressed anxiety.

"Someone once told me," you begin, "that a man's life depends upon his information. Suppose that when I was summoned, I spoke up to tell your brother that I was not a hero of legend who could easily see you and he through the War, but was rather a schoolboy who, by iron and blood, triumphed against impossible odds to get here. What then would follow? Would he have trusted me to gain victory? Nothing good would have come of it, I remain certain."

"So you think you were justified in keeping secrets," Ayaka snaps. "Fine! Maybe you were; I already said I wouldn't mind if you were hiding your identity for some practical reason! But now I know you're lying, and I want to know why! What's the truth?"

"The truth," you begin, carefully maintaining a level, pleasant tone, "is that my name was Yumigawa Rushorou. I'm 18 years old. My house was in the Yoyogi neighborhood, in the northern part of Shibuya, and I never experienced a 'high school romance' or 'young love'. I was the Class President of Kyoutenkan Academy, where I worked hard to keep up the reputation a perfect honor student and spent my spare time devoted to maintaining the student government correctly. I got home every day around eight, since I stayed after classes to complete my duties as president. Arriving home that early was often difficult at the beginning of the year, when we had to process budget applications. I always had to pay very close attention to the secretary at those times, because she didn't have a strong work ethic; but maintaining a schedule was important to me." Casting your mind back to those times, you lean back in your chair and look skyward, tapping your right index finger on the table as you think. Your nail, slightly longer than the finger and filed into a soft edge, clicks rhythmically against the varnish.
>>
"I didn't smoke, and never tried it, although I have taken a drink before," you continue. "As for my home life, I was in bed by eleven every night, and I made sure I got eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I would have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I woke up without any fatigue or stress." You smile thinly. "It's not a habit that has followed me to the present day, as you know."

"Just like fatigue and stress, excitement was something absent from my life," you continue. "When I was younger, I tried sewing as a hobby, since my mother enjoyed it, but soon found that it gave me no pleasure. Equally boring were the comics that other boys were fond of. One Piece, and so on. I'm trying to explain that I used to be a person who lived a very quiet life. I had no enemies, no troubles, and no interests."

Meeting Ayaka's eyes once again, you point to your temple with your left hand. "That was the life of Yumigawa Rushorou, seen from the inside," you say. "There's one more detail, if you're still not satisfied of my identity. When we first met-"

Finally your speech is put to an end, as Ayaka cuts you off. "No! I won't hear another lie from you," she shouts. "By my command, Servant Saber, tell me the truth about your identity!"

A command spell flares into red light on her outstretched hand, then disappears, and you feel yourself bound by its power. After all that, you couldn't convince her! You curse mentally, and try to speak, to protest, but the muscles of your face are suddenly beyond your control. Your mouth opens without your intent, and a voice not your own issues from your throat. It's a voice you recognize, however: the voice of Jean-Pierre Vaisset's first servant, Judas Iscariot, better known to you as Cid Ajisartous.

"Ah, the truth," Judas says with a smooth, satisfied voice. "The realtruth! It is difficult to lay hands on, is it not? The first point of truth, if you must know, is that this young man hasn't lied to you, as far as he is aware. Our poor Saber believes everything he just told you, and everything but the matter of his true name really was accurate. The Akeldama, my little mockup of a Grail War, and of course his transformation from Master into Servant. It all happened. The only thing he lied to you about, and unknowingly at that, was his past life before I summoned him."

"Which brings us to the second point of truth," Judas declares, and pauses for dramatic effect. "You see, the real Yumigawa Rushorou was never summoned, and this young man never existed before the Akeldama."

"Who are you?" Ayaka demands, "and why do you know about this if he doesn't?"
>>
"A memory, if you will, or perhaps a ghost," the voice of Judas answers from your mouth, "I am the core of the heroic spirit your honored brother first summoned, now a significant part of the spirit of this new Saber. I must admit, I had expected to be explaining matters to him in more of a private conference. Saber ought to have found me by careful introspection and examination of his own spirit; but it seems events did not take that course, and those command spells of yours truly are potent things."

"If he didn't exist before appearing in your Noble Phantasm," Ayaka says with disbelief, "Are you saying you created Saber-san somehow? Why? Did you want him to defeat you?"

"Oh, it's not so complicated," Judas answers with a chuckle. "I am a 'man who facilitated heroism'. That was my role in life; to create the apotheosis of another hero, and elevate him to the height of his legend. With such a purpose ingrained in me, I could hardly fight in a straightforward manner. It was only natural for me to take up the same divinely ordained role as a heroic spirit that I did as a living man, and create a new hero. That was hardly a simple matter, however." Judas pauses for a few moments, picking his words.

"Even while I lived," he explains, "the heroic capacity of men was declining steadily; but by acting out a legend, we were able to create from the stuff of mankind a hero for the age, and slow the decline rather well. With modern humans, however, I had to take a far more radical course. Sacrificing one man to humanity couldn't manage the task of making of him into a hero fit for the Age of Gods, as it once had. A thousand sacrifices were necessary, and to receive them I needed a spirit created out of whole cloth for the purpose. Of course, he had to do it by his own will. A thoughtless puppet could never be a hero, so I gave him a background; memories from which to build a personality and find his own goals."

"Of course, the process wasn't without a hitch or two," Judas says with a dark chuckle. "Now that Saber is back in the world, that connection he has is creating some rather dangerous resonance. Nothing you two shouldn't be able to handle, though."

Ayaka slumps bonelessly back into her chair, no longer able to muster up a reply to the successive revelations. Judas laughs again and louder, saying, "You ought to be rejoicing, girl, not falling into despair! Just think of it! In this modern age, bereft of heroes, you have before you a living, breathing, man of legend. A true modern hero, endowed with divine favor!"

"Ah, well," he continues in a contemplative tone, "I suppose there were also many who lamented at the last event I facilitated. You simply never understand how these things help you until later. In any case, I've said all I need to. Goodbye to the both of you, until you have need of me again."
>>
>>3608500
OH MY FUCKING GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON FUCKING JUDAS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>
With that, the presence controlling your voice fades, and you find yourself able to speak once more. Nonetheless, you find yourself as dumbfounded as Ayaka. Your memories were fake? Your past belonged to someone else? Were you always a conceptual being, then?

>[ ] You need to think this through alone. Get up and walk away. (Pride)

>[ ] Just sit there, trying to process. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)

>[ ] Do something else (Write in)
>>
>>3608292
God damn! That's not the truth, but you definitely know how I think! It's almost unnerving.
>>
>>3608507
>>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)
Well that's a fun way to find out you don't actually exist at all.
>>
>>3608507
>>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)

This whole situation is deeply disturbing
>>3608511
But at least we're not fighting the "real" us that also has Circe and Hitler-chan on his side.
>>
>>3608507
This changes nothing. We've long since accepted our identity. Maybe Yumigawa Rushurou would have been disturbed by this, but we are Alberich - the man we are meant to be.
>>
>>3608505
>You ought to be rejoicing, girl,
Yorokobe Shoujo.
Wow, I feel bad for Rushorou.
Like, god damn, that's a hell of a revelation to drop on us right there.
So, we really were the exception?
I guess the clues were all there.
Everyone else seemed to have the clothes they were previously wearing before appearing in Akeldama and we had been changed.
Not a single other master choosing to take power for themselves.
Being indistinguishable from a truly artificial lifeform to one as knowledgeable as a grail vessel.
Never feeling satisfied with life until we started doing dangerous heroic things.
Damn it allllllllllll!
>>
>>3608557
Oh hey, being created with the intent to become a Hero means that we've got a truly massive parallel with Arturia now.
>>
>>3608507
>>[ ] You need to think this through alone. Get up and walk away. (Pride)
I would rather not apologize for her taking our agency away.

>>3608539
I'm more disturbed by the thought that this may be a situation where we win the war and Judas pops up to make his wish through us.
>>
>>3608507
>[ ] You need to think this through alone. Get up and walk away. (Pride)
Brood on the roof, or a park bench maybe
>>
>>3608507
>[ ] You need to think this through alone. Get up and walk away. (Pride)
>>
>>3608507
>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)

Damn, what a fuckin trip.

>>3608505
Okay, so Judas qualifies because he was in on the whole 'plot to sell out his homeboy big J so he could die and become a Divine Spirit'?
>>
...
Are we Jesus 2.
>>
>>3608580
Nah, just a hero. Jesus only needed his own death after all.
>>
>>3608586
Yeah, we just needed the Deaths of a 1000 others including 7 Servants.
We're more like the god damn Anti-Christ.
>>
I must say however that these two back to back plot twists have been fucking masterful.
Excellent job, Sweets.
While a few people might have been thinking that another Rushorou could exist, I don't think anyone was expecting Alberich to not really exist.
God damn.
I feel like I've been Kubo'd.
>>
.... heh, there's a timeline where Judas's artificial hero died within minutes of being created
>>
>>3608600
Hahaha holy shit.
>>
>>3608567
>I'm more disturbed by the thought that this may be a situation where we win the war and Judas pops up to make his wish through us.
Yeah.
So what if our past is false? The experiences we experienced in the Akeldama were very real and made us who we are today.

The REAL problem is that bastard Judas is inside us doing who knows what for who knows why.
That is unacceptable!
>>
>>3608505
>"Of course, the process wasn't without a hitch or two," Judas says with a dark chuckle. "Now that Saber is back in the world, that connection he has is creating some rather dangerous resonance. Nothing you two shouldn't be able to handle, though."
*Nervous laughter*
>>
>>3608610
He was literally just compelled by command spell to tell the exact truth.
Those right there were his motivations.
>>
>>3608616
I mean, would Real Rushorou (FUCKING DAMN IT THAT SOMEHOW HURTS TO SAY) even be a threat even if our servants were somehow linked to him?
I can't see him being able to maintain both of them at once and Adelheid wouldn't follow him after the talk about "we are no longer who we once were" and neither would Circe for the fact that he can't eat the Kykeon and that he's not actually the fledgling Hero Yumigawa she knows.
>>
Is Judas the shadow that true saber was so pissed about?
>>
>>3608617
He was compelled to speak the truth about Alberich's and maybe his own identity. That does in no way compel him to speak the truth about his intentions or capabilities.
Hell creating a hero to win the war then betraying him wouldn't be strange for Judas.
>>
>>3608638
That would be our cape, anon.
You know, the one that looks like the fucking Shadow that warped her in the last war.
>>
>>3608640
I think he was pretty clear about his intentions regardless.
>a thoughtless puppet could never be a hero
Based Judas inadvertently BTFO's Sieg.
...
So that Sieg edit from way back, eh?
>>
>>3608653
post the comparison
>>
File: Know the Difference.jpg (554 KB, 1200x1100)
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>>3608653
What, this one?
>>
>>3608653
And he could have lied about them. Just because some of what he said is the truth compelled by the command seal doesn't mean everything is.
I mean it might just be me, but I'm a bit leery about trusting the word of a hero famous for betrayal or that a command from Ayaka who didn't even know about him is somehow perfectly worded to force him to reveal his complete plans without him finding a loophole or giving out a carefully worded truth that is misleading.
>>
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>>3608667
Let me just fix that real quick.
>>
>>3608670
Eh, it's up to you to thank that, but what are you gonna do about him?
We're kind of stuck with the asshole.


And now we know why Tiamat wouldn't kill us.
>>
Based Blackbeard, murdering all those people and Assassin to empower us. What a guy, that Teach!
>>
>>3608675
>Some Empathy
Shout out to Compassion fags
34 points and rising every day
>>
>>3608684
>thank that
think.
think that.
God damn it.
>>3608685
Little did everyone in Akeldama know, they were all a part of our master plan, that we ourselves didn't know of and we were in fact being played even more than everyone else.
>>
>>3608634
Real Rush wasn't even a magus iirc (but there's no way to know how much of the actual person's backstory we took and wasn't just bullshitted by Judas so fuuuuug). Maybe he just got hit by the bad luck and called in sick that one day.

>>3608635
That might be the linked to gods thing. We're still too smalltime for Counter Guardians to notice.
>>
WELL I GUESS NOW WE KNOW WHY WE'VE SOMEHOW ALWAYS HAD SUPERHUMAN LUCK!
FUCK.
>>
>>3608507
>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)
God fucking dammit. As if a fake Grail War wasn't bad enough, he went and made fake participants to boot.
Also
>"I am a 'man who facilitated heroism'"
>creates dangerous murderer with dubious-at-best concern for others
I guess he means "hero" in the classical sense of "person who does impressive things" rather than the modern notion. Kinda funny considering the other hero he made was literal Jesus.

In other news, we've just discovered the strangest reversal of all.
We all thought Rushorou was the predator, but all the girls have been after a guy who isn't even two weeks old!

In all seriousness, this revelation might make us reconsider our plans. Judas is living inside of us, and if we want to figure out exactly what that means, we may need to spend a lot of time with the Einzberns instead of the Emiyas.

There's also the question of Rushorou's absence. While he's not us, his record was perfect, so whatever happened must have been significant and is almost certainly connected to either Akeldama or the "resonance" Judas mentioned. We should investigate, if possible.

>>3608511
I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks!
>>
>>3608684
>Eh, it's up to you to thank that, but what are you gonna do about him?
Find more out about our situation? Meditate, consult books and if we get a chance magi about our nature and how the part of Judas fits into our being. Find out if him fucking us over is a legitimate concern and if so make plans to mitigate the threat.
>>
>>3608715
>There's also the question of Rushorou's absence. While he's not us, his record was perfect, so whatever happened must have been significant and is almost certainly connected to either Akeldama or the "resonance" Judas mentioned. We should investigate, if possible.
ONLY ONE CAN SURVIVE
It's like that old cliche where if you meet an alternate version if yourselves and touch you blow up the universe or something... Actually that's weirdly specific but I can't remember where I heard of it. Pretty sure it was a tv show or a book or something...
>>
>>3608715
>fake participants
I'll have you know that he only made one fake participant
Also, his grail war was actually a fucking success
It accomplished everything it set out to do.
I think we should all take a moment to congratulate Judas.

To be fair, most "Heroes" are dangerous murderers.
Cu Chulainn is a rapist who killed his best friend and his own son.

Alberich might just mellow out a bit as he gets older, too.
He's already starting to understand the importance of compassion.
>>
>>3608741
Actually, now that I think about it, the only Servants summoned in the 5th War that didn't kill any of their relatives are EMIYA and the two Assassins.
>>
>>3608741
Huh, he specifies that a thousand sacrifices were necessary. Hope this doesn't mean what I think it does for the Akeldama crew.
>>
>>3608748
Should be fine, he summoned 1050 people, remember?
>>
>>3608748
He summoned 1,050 people, though.
>>
>>3608750
>>3608751
woah
>>
>>3608715
Every era requires its own kind of hero, ID. Jesus was the hero needed by the world of Tiberius.
>>
>>3608750
>>3608751
1050mind

thanks for the reminder though
>>
>>3608715
Hey, Alberich is a great hero for the modern period. Vain, prideful, mildly sadistic, tempered ever-so-much by a flexible sense of morality.... he's even a great admirer of Germany!
>>
>>3608773
Given time I'm sure he can become an excellent hero.
He's only two weeks old, after all.
I wonder how the Shirou crew would react if they knew our true backstory.
>>
>>3608799
Alberich is a hero in the sense that Gilgamesh is the King of Heroes.
If anything, you need to focus on Pride and dial back the Compassion votes.
>>
Wait, was Judas actually supposed to die after using his NP and he was lying about empowering himself? Or was it simply just another win condition for him?
>>
>>3608806
Blessed Sweets, always on the right side of history. Death to compassionfags!
>>
>>3608806
But Kid Gil is nice...
>>
>>3608806
Fucking agreed
>>
>>3608799

Sadness all around the Emiya household

>>3608806

Speaking of Gil, how many points of Pride would we need in order to surpass the man himself?
>>
>>3608839
>how many points of Pride would we need in order to surpass the man himself?
Bout treefiddy.
>>
>>3608799
>I wonder how the Shirou crew would react if they knew our true backstory.
Shirou would be Shirou, Sakura would feel a little worse for us, due to basically being robbed of our childhood, and Medusa would probably be less of an ass. Probably.
>>
>>3608839
It is a kind of soul crushing story isn't it?
"I thought I was a mostly apathetic high school student who only truly started feeling emotions when I engaged in the thrill of danger, my servants Caster and Berserker, the two people I hold dearest to me vanished when I thought I had foiled the plan of the organiser, only for me to have been his true plan the entire time. The truth is, my memories up until two weeks ago were all belonging to somebody else, I was created at the start of Akeldama with them. In a way, I suppose you could say I'm only two weeks old.
Regardless, I was created for the sole purpose of winning this false war and becoming a Hero."
Or something.
>>
>>3608839
Around 200, I think.
>>
>>3608859
Look at it this way. You've really got your whole life ahead of you.
>>
Good news however is we can now empathise with Lily, as we are both artificial lifeforms with memories belonging to other people and were both created specifically for a grail war.
>>
>>3608846
I would hope Medusa would stop being mean if she knew the truth.
>>
>>3608598
https://youtu.be/jSoPeZMHMf4

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Lord knows I've had a ton of fun writing the last couple of updates!
>>
>>3608893
Question is, should we tell them?
>>
>>3608927
We already told them half of the true story.
Now we can inform them that our personal suffering is fairly high.
Hell, we could probably even excuse killing the enemy masters, deep down that's what we were designed to do.
Aah, blameless murder, is this what being Sakura feels like?
>>
>>3608946
>Wahh feel bad for me.
Hell no. That's weak-minded shit.
Maybe our existence is different than we thought. So what? We don't miss our boring ass backstory at all anyway, this changes nothing for Alberich. We're now even more free from the limitations of humanity.
>>
>>3608946

Nah not really

>>3608996

To be fair to Sakura she had been getting raped by Crest Worms, Shinji and Zouken since age. What? Five?
>>
This revelation is just.
God damn.
I still can't get over it.
Man I just want to hear what Ayaka has to say.
>>
>>3608996
>we don't miss our boring ass backstory
Anon, Alberich has literally just been told that his entire existence is basically a lie.
That's some heavy stuff.
There's just no way he possibly reacts with "haha I don't care."
>>
Take a look at your emotional stats if you want to see how this revelation immediately impacts Alberich.
>>
>>3609054
Oh wow.
>>
>>3609054

>10 MF

THE LETTERS SWEETS WHAT DO THEY MEAN
>>
>>3609064
major focus, just like before
>>
>>3609064
Main Focus.
>>
>>3608755
I'm deeply concerned about what kind of hero Judas decides the world needs today. Based on what he's said here, it sounds like he's in the Gilgamesh camp of "humanity really needs to shape up and I'm going to use vast magic powers to force it" (which would explain why he's created a prideful, remorseless killing machine).

>>3608907
This reminds me - does AM have an OP yet?

>>3608996
>this changes nothing for Alberich
Are you kidding? Alberich just went from a self-discovering, self-made, conquering warrior to a stuffed toy Judas is putting together at the Build-A-Hero Workshop. This should be an utterly soul-crushing revelation for him.

>>3609054
>Compassion gets dicked on
Back to the grindstone, fellow Compassionfags.
>Pride takes no damage
I'm actually really surprised by this. Are you sure Alberich is going to need to get a Pride rollover before he reaches Gil-tier?
>>
>>3609070
As far as we know Judas didn't manipulate events to make us successful in Akeldama. Our achievements are still our own. It's just that we're basically Judas' son now.
>>
>>3609066
>>3609069

Ah, right then
>>
>>3609079
>Judas' son
We are the Son of the Gods, Judas was just doing his part.
>>
>>3609079
Judas basically went "keikaku doori", anon. That alone should throw a shadow of doubt over all our past actions.
>>
>>3609094
Well, over all past events in Akeldama.
>>
>>3609089
he was the midwife, you could say
the midwife of the gods
>>
>>3609094
tfw we have been a pawn for 70 percent of our life.
>>
>>3608507
A mix of
>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)
and
[ ] You need to think this through alone. Get up and walk away. (Pride)

Fuck.
>>
>>3609134

And we've been alive only two weeks.

>>3609146

This works well
>>
>>3609151
Being Alberich is suffering.
>>
>>3609079
>As far as we know Judas didn't manipulate events to make us successful in Akeldama.
No, but he DID manufacture adversity for us. He got Rider back up and running when he was set to die, and he tried to convince Ambrose to give Berserker to a more willing Master. The achievements we have were all set up by him in order to mold us into the hero he wants us to be. And we didn't even really want to do it - he was the one who built us with a drive to overcome the obstacles he created. We're like a miserable bootleg Shirou who got adopted not by Kiritsugu but by the world's most notorious traitor.

>>3609134
>70 percent
That's a pretty generous estimation. Take another look at his speech.
>I could hardly fight in a straightforward manner. It was only natural for me to take up the same divinely ordained role as a heroic spirit that I did as a living man, and create a new hero.
Even now, simply by fighting the war in the role we've been given, we're playing into his hands, because he WANTED us to win Akeldama and fight the war in his place.
>>
>>3609146
This could work.
>>
You know what, fuck it lets team up with Shirou to stop this war. If we do win and become a hero we would fall into Judas's plans. What better way to fuck up that than to just disappear after destroying the grail.

Fuck you Judas.
>>
>>3609162
That's the thing, I think this interpretation (and other less popular biblical interpretations) of Judas showed him as Jesus' most trusted disciple, who did as he was told to arrange Jesus' sacrifice for the greater good.
>>
>>3609176
I'm still under the impression that we'll cease to exist or return to the grail once the grail war is over unless we win.
>>
>>3609162
It's manufactured adversity, but Alberich's victory is still genuine. Any of the 1050 (barring, say, Ogawara or somesuch) had a real chance at victory- we simply were better. If a triathelete's son wins a triathalon set up by him, does that negate the son's victory? I would argue not.

Now, a small pride hit from the perspective of "I played into the hand of this shit-man who I hate, AND he's at least a small part of me" I could get.
>>
>>3609162
Poor Alberich, the more I think about it the worse the implications get.
Remember when he tried to put a stop to things by claiming the organiser had rigged things?
He was forced into this.
He was even originally willing to forgive Archer and form an alliance to deal with a dangerous servant.
>>
>>3609176
>Let's lose and diebecause we hate daddy
I shiggy diggy anon
>>
>>3609177
That was the gnostic interpretation, yes.
They even wrote a gospel for it.
>>
>>3609187
Exactly, if we win we become a hero and Judas's plan came to fruition. If we destroy the grail we cease to exist and Judas's plan failed. Well that is how I am seeing it.
>>
>>3609176
Anon please.
>>
>>3609070
>self-discovering, self-made
Alberich acknowledged earlier in the thread that his magecraft was the first thing he'd truly accomplished on his own
>>
>>3609176
>>3609200
>t. sweets trying to sow discord among us
I SEE YOU, ENEMY
>>
>>3609200
Suicidal sacrifice goes against everything Alberich has stood for. We will continue to exist, and on our own terms. We will become the master of our own destiny, despite our origins.
>>
>>3609193
We are in our rebellious phase of our life.
>>
>>3609206
>Implying sweets would be that disingenuous
Put some respect on my QM's name
>>
>>3609200
>if you kill yourself, you win
????????
May as well just seppuku now then, lmao.
>>
>>3609213
Sounds like a funny Tiger Dojo.
>>
>>3609209
So if anything should we become an Anti-hero?
>>
>>3609221
No?
Why would we?
>>
My only concern is somehow excising this "ghost" of Judas at Alberich's core. Forget the legitimacy of Alberich's character and victories for the moment, we have a chunk of the betrayer in our soulstuff!
>>
>>3609221
Not specifically where I was going with that at all. I just think that Alberich will have an even greater hunger for self-determination after this. Ideally we could excise the Judas from our being but who knows the ramifications of that
>>
>>3609070
>This reminds me - does AM have an OP yet?
It does not, and we very much need one!

>I'm actually really surprised by this.
Actually, my first thought was +5 to Pride, but I changed my mind. You did just discover you were the chosen one, after all.

>>3609176
Oh my god, you're the worst.

>>3609188
>It's manufactured adversity, but Alberich's victory is still genuine.
Thank you.
>>
>>3609232
We can work on that later.
I for one think being able to converse mentally with Judas could only be beneficial.
>>
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>>3609232
>excise
Nice word choice

The only issue I have with Judas is that he might have some influence over us while he's a part of us. I don't think he's inherently against our own interests.
>>
>>3609212
>implying sweets is not even more disingenuous and crafty than we or he could ever realize
How soon they forget that time we all realized how short Circe was and thought Sweets was a rusemaster. He's an instrument of chaos, the devil's kazoo
>>
>>3609177
That's not really my point. Even with that interpretation, it doesn't make Alberich's situation any more "his". I'm trying to say that the realization that his entire existence and growth as a hero is just the keikaku of the one guy he hates the most should have a pretty serious effect on him.

>>3609188
This is more or less what I'm going for. From Alberich's perspective, this revelation should hurt.

>>3609203
The first power he'd gained on his own, sure, but I think you'd struggle to argue that Alberich wouldn't want credit for navigating the Akeldama Grail War. This revelation casts that into doubt.

>>3609200
Now that's just dumb.

>>3609241
>You did just discover you were the chosen one, after all.
That's one interpretation, certainly. I suppose I just see it differently.
>>
>>3608505
>>3608500
>>3608495
I would like to say while the idea of us being the copy and not the real thing crossed my mind, I was hoping It wouldn't be the case because I didn't want to have to deal with that can of worms.

Now that I'm back and I've read this I must say, good job. This Is a horrible outcome, but If anything, how liberating Is this now to know the truth? The reason we couldn't choose Yumigawa Rushorou as our true name was because fundamentally, we weren't. We were just a mirror image, hence the name of the quest.

>>3608539
As disturbing as this Is, I agree. Our memories having been fake does not change what they have made us, or the choices we have made. We are still the Yumigawa Rushurou we have always known, and If the copy of Rushurou was Indeed an accurate one It could be said the real thing may have evolved as we did put In our shoes, and thus the only thing that separates us Is mere circumstance.

>>3608565
Ugh.
>>
>>3609232
>>3609246
Now who in Tokyo could perform Spiritual Surgery, or would know someone who could...?
>>
>>3609265
It seems like Judas' essence might be the only thing that makes us count as a servant, I'm not sure we'd have the energy supply needed to survive without it. That's mostly conjecture though.
>>
>>3609262
>Ugh.
Can't you feel it anon?
The good ol WE'RE NOT SO DIFFERENT, YOU AND I. Is ready to be fired at Saber.
>>
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>>3609265
>tfw Kirei has been dead for 15 years and can't help us remove Judas solely to see how much pain we suffer and cause as a result
>>
>>3609261
I've honestly never seen this pure hatred toward Judas coming from Alberich himself, just in a few player's comments. Yes, he tricked us, but he also gave us not only existence but purpose and power as well.
>>
>>3609261
It does hurt. The loss of duty and compassion, combined with the large boost to sadism and battle-lust is one way of conveying that Alberich is furious right now. He's being forced to reconsider what he thought was important as a "human," and that gives his crueler instincts more sway.
Why hasn't pride taken a hit? It's because Alberich has never felt more distant from humanity than he does now. He was born better, designed to consume their sacrifices and be empowered by battle.
None of this takes away from the value of his own achievements in the Akeldama. What it strips away is a part of the bond he felt towards beings who have, for almost his entire life, constantly been his inferiors. Think about how many living humans Alberich has actually treated as equals during his life, particularly in Akeldama. Without his conception of them as equals from his former life, a lot of Alberich's ties to humanity crumble.
>>
>>3609262
>We were just a mirror image, hence the name of the quest.
YES! Thank you for picking up on that!
>>
>>3609290
Oh god oh fuck.
Alberich please.
>>
>>3608507
>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you, then Get up and walk away. (Compassion/Pride)
>>
>>3609282
Could the current Father remove Judas?
>>
>>3609290
So rather than rejecting his humanity, Alberich has had his humanity rejected for him? Neat!
>>
>>3609290
That's exactly my interpretation
>>
>>3609306
Fuck Judas!
Not for any of the mentioned reasons.
But for giving us the memories of somebody who can't cook.
>>
>>3609293
Your welcome. Thank you for plot twists and existential suffering. I genuinely enjoy It.

>>3609290
That's concerning. And Interesting. I guess rejecting our humanity wasn't so much of a joke after all then, potentially. Good.
>>
>>3609310
He never had any humanity.
It was all an illusion.
>>
>>3609319
Hey, he could have made us with the memories of fucking Keiseki.
>>
>>3609329
That was an option, yes.
>>
>>3609329
He could've given us the memories of an actual magus.
>>
>>3609333
But he instead chose Rushorou.
Daaamn youuuuu Judaaaaaasssss
>>
>>3609290
That makes more sense. Thanks for the explanation.

>>3609306
He probably could, but I doubt he'd do it in the way we want if he does it at all. We'd have to explain our situation to him, and then he'd have to decide based on that. He could help us by removing Judas and sending us on our way, he could cut out Judas and kill us because Caster is supposed to be the Shijou Servant, he could have us both destroyed because he decides Akeldama is too fuckity, or he could refuse treatment entirely because it's the effect of the NP and he shouldn't interfere.

>>3609329
Then we'd REALLY need to cut out Judas, come hell or high water.

>>3609333
If he did that, he'd run the risk of us figuring out what was going on before he was ready for us to and rejecting our intended role. I don't blame him for that one.
>>
>>3609281
But I don't want to reconcile that we might be like the king of knights, I want to crush her beneath our heel and spit on her corpse, as we laugh at her misery for making a fool of us.

Unlikely as that Is to come to pass.
>>
>>3609335
You chose Rushorou. The players. Don't forget it!
>>
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>>3609329
>he could've made us with memories of fucking Circe
>>
>>3609336
So I take it you weren't asking about the OP because you had a suggestion in mind?
>>
>>3609340
Poor Arturia.
She doesn't deserve that.
>>
>>3609342
Hey, I love Rushorou. Of all the options available, in retrospect I feel he gave us the most nuance and the most interesting slate to work with. I feel safe in my vote from all that time ago.
>>
>>3609349
If she stands against the one, the only one, the god of kingdom come, she deserves it
>>
>>3609350
I think I would've enjoyed writing the otaku Fate quest with Ogawara as the star, but it definitely would've had a very different tone.
>>
>>3609342
I wasn't complaining
Rushorou was great!
The absolute master of coffee.
>>
>>3609348
Not at the moment, I just didn't know if we had one yet or if I should start up the search again.
>>
>>3609355
Well we'll see what happens with her.
This revelation has taken some of the wind out of my sails in regards to the HMS KILLARTURIA
>>
I'm putting out the notice to all of you folks: at this moving juncture in the story, I'm still looking for an OP! Give me your suggestions!
>>
>>3609375
You mean like weeb music?
>>
>>3609375

Not sure if this were to fit, but I personally can hear this at the start of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msTB5r8nUHU
>>
>>3609378
Well, it is a weeb quest based on Fate.
That said, I ended up using Gimme the Prize, by Queen, as the OP for Fate/City Akeldama, so it's not a hard-and-fast rule.
>>
>>3609349
From who's perspective?

Not from Alberich's, that's for sure.

>>3609375
I'll look for something.
>>
>>3609375
In light of recent developments, I offer this pair:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkdrrxR96d8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU9YFgsQ-gU
>>
>>3608507
>[ ] Apologize to Ayaka for making her go through this situation with you. (Compassion)
Well, that was fun.
>>
>>3609375
Still trying to find something in Japanese, but it's hard as an EOP

Got these for now though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtGA-xcL958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgGLB-NAiG8
>>
>>3609340
>reconcile
Who said anything about reconciliation? I want to piss her off even more.
Not as much as I want to keep this a secret, though.
>>
Oh man I am just imagining talking to saber going

>"Hey Other Saber, do you know how it feels to find out that most of your life was dictated and planned by some asshole Magus who wanted you to become a hero for the current age?"
>>
With the power that held you upright and compelled you to dramatically narrate your own origins gone, you slump into your own chair, mirroring Ayaka across the table from you. Against your better judgment, you let out a dry, mirthless chuckle.

"It seems I'm not what either of us supposed me to be," you say wryly. "I'm neither the genuine Yumigawa Rushorou nor a liar, but an impostor deceived into my act. What a farce it is! To think I've spent my time this way, thinking I was that student; believing I'd lived those years of drudgery! I truly thought I had become something other than myself. That I had to change, to put my old nature as a modern human behind me and surpass it, when all along that nature was false; no more than an illusion! I-" You cut yourself off sharply. If you leave your tongue free, you'll soon be raving, it seems.

"I'm sorry, Miss Ayaka," you say with half-honest contrition. "The melodrama of my identity should be no concern of yours, particularly after the death of your brother. I don't mean to burden you with my emotions."

"It's alright, Saber-san," Ayaka responds listlessly. "This was out of your control too. I can see that you were just trying to be honest with me about who you really were, now that you felt like it wouldn't be a problem. What happened after that was..." she gropes for a word. "Something out of our control, I guess. Who would think a Servant could do something like that? Making a new spirit, and sacrificing all those people to turn you into a Servant. Nii-san, maybe."

"I doubt your brother knew the extent of Caster's power," you say. "Though I told him only a small amount about the Akeldama, it was enough to show me that he knew nothing on the subject. Caster probably told him no more than that it was a powerful supportive Noble Phantasm, to be activated well in advance."

Ayaka doesn't respond to your assertion, and an awkward silence settles over the two of you for several seconds. Finally you break it, saying, "At any rate, there are no more secrets between the two of us. If you do not find what Caster told you about my true nature too repellent, I hope we can continue to fight together."

"You mean, you're not angry at me? For doubting you, and for wasting a command spell like that?" Ayaka sounds honestly perplexed by the fact of your positivity.

"Your actions were justified in the moment," you say. "Even if your doubt was proven wrong in the end, I can't hold a grudge over such a thing."

"I see", she says. "That's nice of you, Saber-san. Or, should I call you Yumigawa-senpai now?"

"No, that person isn't me," you reply softly. "You can go on calling me Saber-san as you have, Miss Ayaka. Or, if you'd prefer to use a name, call me Alberich. That's the True Name I have as a Servant."

"I see. Well then, I'll keep calling you Saber-san."
>>
There's another long pause before either of you speaks. Then a look of resolution passes over Ayaka's face, and just as you think she's about to make some decision regarding your identity she changes the subject.

"Saber-san, why are you fighting in the Holy Grail War?"

The question takes you by surprise, and at first you can only echo, "Why am I fighting?"

"Yeah." Ayaka nods in emphasis. "I mean, I don't have a wish for the Holy Grail, but I still have reasons to fight. For one, I'm afraid of being killed if I don't fight to defend myself. Then there's my family. Mom didn't talk much about it, but I know from her journals that the Holy Grail War meant the world to her; even if he didn't think much of the wish, Nii-san was willing to fight and die for it, too. I feel like it's my duty as a Shijou to win the Holy Grail War. But what about you, Saber-san? Nii-san said Servants could be summoned from the Throne of Heroes because they had a wish they wanted the Holy Grail to grant for them, but you weren't summoned that way. Do you have a wish for the Grail?"

>[ ] "If I am a living hero, as Caster said, it is only natural for me to continue proving myself in battle against Heroic Spirits of ages past; regardless of the wish provided by the Holy Grail." (Pride)

>[ ] "I only want to continue living. Unless we obtain the Holy Grail, I will fade into nonexistence after the War ends and it ceases to support my manifestation as a Servant." (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Some other reason. (Write in)
>>
>>3609742
>[ ] "I only want to continue living. Unless we obtain the Holy Grail, I will fade into nonexistence after the War ends and it ceases to support my manifestation as a Servant." (Self-Preservation)

Also, this

>>3609773
Closure. A good goal, so we can look fully to the future.
>>
>>3609773
Although just to confirm, you know we are the Yumigawa who connected with Circe and Adelhied In the Akeldama. The way you wrote that makes It seem as If you think we are a copy of the Yumigawa who went through the Akeldama, when we're just a copy of Real World Rushorou that was thrust Into the akeldama. The real Rushorou supposedly has no knowledge of any of this, unless I've greatly misinterpreted things.
>>
>>3609773
Original Yumi never entered the Akeldama, we're already far beyond him.
>>
>>3609787
Huh.
>"I'm neither the genuine Yumigawa Rushorou nor a liar, but an impostor deceived into my act."
confused me. I thought Alberich was a copy of Akeldama Rushorou.
Then I'll rewrite it. Give me a minute...
>>
>[ ]"Even if I'm a copy of Yumigawa Rushorou, the memories I made in Akeldama and the people I met are my own; the fake has already surpassed the original. I want to find my friends and live my own life with them as Alberich."
Better?
>>
>>3609738
Just for the record, I'm kind of disappointed she calling us Yumigawa-senpai.

>>3609811
That's good, I'll support this too.

Although I still would like to meet the original Yumigawa Rushorou, just for curiosities sake. I'd like to see If Alberich see's him as someone enjoyable, little more than a bug with his old face, or someone he utterly despises and kills with his bare hands. It's just something I'd like to see, to know for ourselves. It'd be a hell of a thing wouldn't It, to meet kill a man with your face?
>>
>>3609818
She still calls us "Saber-san".
>"I see. Well then, I'll keep calling you Saber-san."
>>
>>3609820
Typo. I meant to say "I'm kind of disappointed she's not calling us Yumigawa-senpai."
>>
>>3609742
>[ ] "If I am a living hero, as Caster said, it is only natural for me to continue proving myself in battle against Heroic Spirits of ages past."
>[ ] "But, if there is a way to recover what I rightfully earned in that false grail war. To secure the lives of the allies I fought to protect as well as my own; a wish towards that end would be ideal."
>>
>>3609862
Support.
>>
So do we tell anyone else?
The Emiyas would be saddened by our true story and possibly more willing to help.
I suppose if we properly befriend Lily, we could eventually tell her too.
And though unlikely, if we ever get into a situation where we are talking with Saber, we could tell her for a laugh. (Especially if Shirou tells us who she is upon her being described.) She might even stop bullying us and treat us with some respect in our next fight.

My urge to protect homonculi has increased after discovering the true nature of Alberich.
>>
>>3609742
>[ ] "I only want to continue living. Unless we obtain the Holy Grail, I will fade into nonexistence after the War ends and it ceases to support my manifestation as a Servant." (Self-Preservation)
Not just to continue living, but to begin living a life that is my own.
>>
>>3609935
I'll switch to supporting this.
So now we know the truth of our existence. Alberich is living evidence of a fake copy surpassing the original and a true modern hero.

Be our friend, Shirou.

Tell your bullshit ex-servant to cool the fuck off, too.
>>
>>3609742
>[ ] "I am the master of my own destiny, and I feel it is only natural for me to continue proving myself in battle against Heroic Spirits of ages past; regardless of the wish provided by the Holy Grail." (Pride)
>Self Preservation votes
what is this madness?
>>
>>3609952
It's a major focus now.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to live.
>>
>>3609957
It has always been one. And while there's nothing wrong, there's nothing particularily invigorating or right about it either.
>>
>>3609960
I think it's slightly more noble than just deciding our existence is for fighting ghosts of the past.
Really I'd like to bring up wanting to see our friends/allies again.

Maybe Truvi would calm down knowing our true backstory.
Ogawara, Matsuda and Kikuko would also be nice to meet again
But I think what Alberich really wants are his Servants back.
>>
Seems we have a tie once again.
>>
>>3610028
Nah, the two options are totally the same, we both want to live a normalour own life on our own terms
>>
>>3610028
What's the vote count? Self Preservation seems to be the majority.
>>
>>3610039
I've got 2 Pride, 2 SP and one custom that I'm thinking is Compassion.
>>
>>3609952
I want to Alberich to achieve something with his life, and earn his freedom to live that life. If we've never had a life before this war, then I'd like to earn one, let him live his own life. Pride seems too much like this war Is our purpose, when that feels very short-sighted. We can prove ourselves superior to heroes of the past, to be certain, but I want a goal for the future. I'd like to earn the freedom to be the master of our own fate.

The only question Is who we should share our freedom with, and what we should do with It.
>>
>>3609818
>Just for the record, I'm kind of disappointed she calling us Yumigawa-senpai.
Why's that, anon?
>>
>>3609742
>[ ] "I only want to continue living. Unless we obtain the Holy Grail, I will fade into nonexistence after the War ends and it ceases to support my manifestation as a Servant." (Self-Preservation)
I`ll go with this one but we should try to contact Judas later on to ask about Circe and Adelheid. He is the best lead we have on their fate.

And speaking of Adelheid. It is kind of funny how this development mirrors our talk with her about idenity expect this time tables are turned and we are Servant with a bit of identity crisis in mind.
>>
>>3610047
That sounds more like a custom option. The SP choice is more "I'm fighting to survive now because there's an immediate danger, without much thought to the future after that."
>>
>>3610049
Because, I thought It would be cute.
>>
>>3610046
I see 3 self preservation, 2 pride and 1 custom
>>
>>3610053
Alright.

Would the Self-Preservation guys be willing to tie In with this line of thought?

>>3610047
Because I want Alberich to have a goal to look towards, not just blindly cling to life.
>>
>>3610046

>>3609780
Self-Preservation
>>3609811
Mine, Compassion. Supported by >>3609818
>>3609862
Pride+Compassion
>>3609935
Self-Preservation+Compassion(?), supported by>>3609944
>>3609952
Pride

The total is:
>Pride: 2
>Self-Preservation: 3
>Conpassion: 5 if I'm counting right
>>
You see, this is why there are no heroes left in man. There are none who value courage over life...
>>
>>3610056
You're not wrong anon.

Man, poor Alberich just had his worldview that was only just forming torn to pieces.
>>
>>3610062
*cut to Shirou jumping in front of Berserker like a retard*
>>
>>3610066
He might be retarded, but wouldn't you give him an A+ for effort?
>>
>>3610056
It would. Unfortunately, there's a guy she goes to school with by that name.
>>
>>3610068
I'll give him an E ~ A++
>>
>>3610069
Not for long.
>>
>>3610071
Anon no!
Leave our prototype alone!
>>
>>3610069
And that's why I'm disappointed.

>>3610052
>>3609935
>>3609944
You guys willing to throw behind this line of thought here? >>3610047

Because according to Sweets, Self-Preservation as an option Is just that, without any other driving force. I'd rather give ourselves a reason to live, not just desire to live.
>>
>>3610072
>>3610071
We can copy Circe`s Adviser to Heroes and make real Yumigawa hero too.
>>
>>3610053
>without much thought to the future after that
Hmm... I'd vote for Pride because SP sounds a bit too purposeless for me. I'll also support us seeking closure.
>>
>>3610071
Ah, I see you've considered It too. Yes, I'd like to meet Rushorou before we die. And If we aren't Impressed with what we see- well, Alberich will do as he will.
>>
>>3610072
It's too late, the extra Yumigawa must be purged, for Alberich does not suffer strange fakes to live.
This is my grand order, and I will not rescind it. May Yumigawa Rushorou find some hollow semblance of ataraxia in heaven.
>>
>>3610075
You know what?
Sure ok.
>>3609944
Switching to supporting something like
>>3610047
>>
>>3610082
Oh, you'll have the chance to meet him.
>>
>>3610077
While that's a funny idea, Yumigawa has no chance to be a hero unless we rip out our heart and give it to him.
>>
>>3610085
Impressive anon.
>>3610091
Ah yes, now that's concerning.
Hey guys, remember when Circe in our dreams kidnapped/killed Odysseus and kept trying to turn him into her Hero only for him to reject her over and over again?
>>
>>3610075
I don`t mind some extra Compassion and more long term goals in our answer. Since it was more or less our motivation previously. So sure.
>>
>>3610096
So, what are the odds the resonance linked our Servants with the other Yumigawa and Circe is trying her best to turn him into us and make him remember memories he doesn't have?
>>
>>3610107
That's not how that works.
>>
>>3610107
He would be dead.
The strain on his totally mundane body would kill him.
>>
>>3610109
Alright.
Well, I look forward to seeing where this goes next.
>>
>>3610075
>>3610089
>>3610097
Alright, so now I know what you want Alberich to do in the future, but I don't know what you want to actually say. Remember, she didn't ask about your overall direction in life. The question is "Why are you fighting in the Holy Grail War?"
>>
>>3610113
Caster would have a far greater supply of ambient magical energy to rely on by stealing it from people.
>>
>>3610114
Resonance isn't something I pulled out of nowhere, mind you. Think back and you should get an idea of what Judas was implying.
Or just wait and you'll find out when the story gets there, it's all the same to me.
>>
>>3610119
>Local schoolboy dreams of wanton murder and glorious victory
Lel. Poor kid is going off the deep end.
>>
>>3610115
Let me tl;dr It. Something along the lines of-

>"Well before, It could be said I wasn't sure why I was fighting, merely doing the best with the circumstances I had to win, to live. Now? If the life of Yumigawa Rushorou was not fully a life of my own, then I would like to live beyond this war. I would to be free to live and choose my own fate and circumstance, rather than merely be subjected to them. A man of my own destiny If you will. So that's It then, Ms. Ayaka, I'm merely fighting to live a life on my very own terms, unbound by the machinations of those who would see me a puppet."
>>
>>3610119
>>3610122

Interesting.

Are we really the kid's Emiya, then? A being of him who achieved the dreams he never had a chance to fulfill?

Well If It's like that, we might come to like him. It sounds as If he's going to be an enemy, but we might see some kinship with him, coming from the same origin point and all. If he too wants to be a hero, let him. Why not? We've enjoyed our time as one, despite the Innumerable hiccups and complications In our journey.

I wonder how In many dead ends he gets to kill us.
>>
>>3610144
He can't be an enemy if he has no magic circuits anon.
>>
>>3610144
If he gets in our way, then he will die.
>>3610159
He could, but without a servant backing him up, he wouldn't exactly be a powerful one.
>>
>>3610119
>[ ] "I only want to continue living. Unless we obtain the Holy Grail, I will fade into nonexistence after the War ends and it ceases to support my manifestation as a Servant." (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3610134
Yeah, let's say this
>>
>>3610144
>Are we really the kid's Emiya, then?
No.
While EMIYA represented the end stage of Shirou's foolish ideal as what he could eventually become, Alberich represents no such ideal, the true Yumigawa never held strong enough convictions to have such things. Additionally, we represent an existence the real Yumigawa could never become, a destined Child of the Gods.
>>
>>3610115
It relates to our wish right? You can't really discuss what you want from a grail war without wanting something after it's done. I don't understand your issue with it
>>
>>3610119
What Judas was implying, you say... The closest thing I can think of is the crisis of identity Adelheid suffered towards the end of CA, but somehow I don't think that's what you mean. This is probably worth investigating.

>>3610134
This works for me. Supporting.

>>3610159
>>3610162
Recall that in UBW, so much as clashing swords resulted in the transferal of combat experience (and memory to some degree, if I recall) from EMIYA to Shirou. Now, that's not like to occur in our case since that was a direct result of EMIYA being a potential future self for Shirou. But we ARE an alternative version of Yumigawa, however different, separated by a mere two weeks of adventure. Coming into direct physical contact with Rushorou could have very strange and very dangerous consequences.
>>
>>3610134
Supporting
>>
>>3610189
>we are an alternate version of Yumigawa
No.
Our existence is entirely seperate from his. We just have his memories.
We are a conceptual being, created for the purpose of becoming a hero.
Our Elements and Origin would be completely seperate to his also.
>>
>>3610202
>Our existence is entirely seperate from his.
Fair. To say we're an "alternate version" was a mistake on my part. Even so, we have an apparently volatile connection to a living being and no idea how getting close will impact either of us.
>>
>>3610212
Yeah, he might become a problem if getting close to him did that.
Buuut
EMIYA could be near Shirou and nothing bad happened.
Things only occured when EMIYA started slapping his own shit, and those two have a bond far greater than our bond with Yumigawa.
>>
>>3610224
Let me put it this way: we may be a fundamentally different existence, but we're still similar in that we were made with his memories and his appearance (though not so much the latter anymore). That sort of thing could easily be a basis for sympathetic magical effects (such as burning an effigy to try to harm someone), so we should be careful.
>>
We must kill the child
>>
>>3609742
>>[ ] "I only want to continue living. Unless we obtain the Holy Grail, I will fade into nonexistence after the War ends and it ceases to support my manifestation as a Servant." (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3610231
We'll see how much he knows.
If he is clueless, let's ask Rin or Ayaka to hypnotise him and his family so they decide to go on a 3 week vacation or something.
If he is aware, then he's a danger.
>>
>>3610244
>>3610166
Why not go for
>>3610134
?
>>
FUCKING CAPTCHA LET ME POST
>>
>>3610115
To show our glory to the world and save our only "friends" while doing it.
>>
Holy fuck. Supporting >>3610134.
>>
I'm just gonna go ahead and guess that one of Judas' skills was Hero Creation: EX
>>3610230
I wouldn't be so certain, but the possibility he could pose an issue is there.
"Who are you?"
"I'm you* but strong."

FUCKING CAPTCHA REEEE
>>
>>3610262
Akeldama and Territory Creation were both EX ranked, so in a manner of speaking you are correct
>>
>>3610250
Overly wordy write ins make me cringe. I vastly prefer succinct write ins that more or less mirror the length of the offered options.
>>
>>3610231
I don't think that's a good idea. I'd like to remind you that Cursed Arm's Zabaniya works via resonance. It's sympathetic magic.
>>
>>3610119
I’d assume nature wouldn’t reject the presence of two identical souls since EMIYA and emiya could coexist, and our Origin now differs from that of the originals’. The only possible conclusion i can draw here is that the reason for the originals’ absence is either blowback from this resonance, or if you’re feeling particularly vindictive, because the memories we aquired after being duplicated were sent into his mind when we incarnated in realspace. There is literally no reason for the ”only one can exist” situation because of the previously mentioned emiya/EMIYA situation, but who knows, maybe this resonance will somehow result in us either having to kill or protect the original due either to the things he knows or because he can be used as some sort of sympathetic link in curses or binding rituals.

As for the OP, anything by EVE could work. None of his songs (except the newest which was apparently used in the new Dororo ED) have been used in anime before, and the style really fits an edgier, darker FATE with a high amount of existensial dread.
Heres one or my favorites that i really think could work, but you may check out any of his other songs if you think it doesnt fit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PvzBWFGEz8M
>>
>>3610263
>>3610269
Picrelated.
>>3610266
We don't know any of his personal skills.
They are all still [UNKNOWN]
>>
>>3610119
>>3610273

Oh, and if that wasn’t edgy enough for you; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9tLAV3jnK54

Judas Iskarius, creator of the open world VR experience, Elder scrolls 6: Akeldama’s theme:
>>
>>3610283
mobileposting is satans legacy

missing link:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPN0qhSyWy8
>>
>>3610122
>Dear Diary:
>It has been 3 days and 17 hours since mother instructed me to maintain this diary.
>Today, I had a dream. In this dream I made a Vienna coffee with plenty of cream for Adelheid. (n.b: Adelheid is a little blonde girl in a uniform who also calls herself "Berserker".)
>After that I told her I wanted to rule over other people. She smiled.
>Later, I talked to Keiseki from across the street. Keiseki asked me to surrender and give him Circe, so I tore his throat open and kicked his head off.
>>
Fantasy Mythology from Mirai Nikki would work great as OP honestly.
It also plays into Sweets yandere fetish.
>>
>>3610273
>you’re feeling particularly vindictive
I would never feel vindictive towards you folks! When I hurt my players, it is with the whip of love.

Regarding the OP, this song is great! I'll check out his other work as well.

>>3610283
Yep, that's a whole lot of edge.
>>3610288
GAH!

>>3609418
Mirror mirror is great! It's one to consider. The second song, I'm not so fond of.

>>3609389
Monster is a classic, and I do like it's OP, but I'm trying to go for something that hasn't been used before.

>>3609482
I haven't listened to these yet. More when I do.

>>3610289
I laughed.

Lastly, for those wondering about where the story will end up going after the Tokyo Grail War, I've actually planned the OP in advance for the next part of our story. So, here's a teaser for Arc 3.
https://youtu.be/6EWqTym2cQU
>>
>>3610300
Unfortunately, Mirai Nikki is shit.
It also blatantly steals Kaworu from NGE for a character.
>>
>>3610302
glad you like it. EVE is the one japanese artist i follow so i wouldnt be able to recommend anything not already an OP if you hated his style.
I personally think that Tokyo Ghetto (the linked MV) fits pretty well with the existential dread and inner emptiness of the quest, but honestly 9/10 EVE songs are about being depressed, empty and wanting to die, so you can take your pick.
>>
>>3609482
>the dear hunter: the most cursed of hands
And here i thought my picks were edgy

>>3610302
I was sure that was going to be either the death note or overlord OP, sweets, and we already know there will be lots of blood. Dishonorabru disprayu all around
>>
>>3610302
Fuck Zelretch.
https://youtu.be/jGKNaIXtBZQ
>>
>>3610302
What an auspicious teaser
>>
>>3610319
>taking on the guy who beat the Moon up.
Unless we've got some major Gaia and Beast back-up I don't believe we could even hope to touch him.
And he can just fuck off to a different timeline if he wants.
>>
>>3610318
AC/DC is too obvious for you? Fine, here's a slightly deeper cut.
Leitmotif for players' waifuism: https://youtu.be/_P4Fh2rjdVc
>>
>>3610337
>VOCALOID
I’d call you a faggot but i listen to that shit sometimes too.

Anyway i lied. There is another band i know of. MYTH&ROID. They’ve done a LOT of anime OPs and EDs, so most stuff is taken already, but i did manage to pick out a song that isnt in an anime yet, and probably wont be since they usually comission OPs anyway; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=99IHN6IN-Qs&t=42s
Now this one fits much better for the first quest, what with all the references to forgotten dreams and being trapped, but that ship already sailed so there’s nothing to do but post it.

I love the quest btw. I forgot to congratulate you on a work well done in the first post, but i just caught up from the archives and i gotta say that this is one of my favorites ever, even including legendary quests like Joker and Banished. I prefer burrowing through archives over actually participating, but i’ll stick around for this and vote when i can. Thanks for writing this
>>
Sweets, how many more cool swords we need to plunder until our sword can become Stormbringer rip-off for Elric of Melniboné drama vibes we have starting?
>>
>>3610319
>That song
Oh dear, it seems you've figured me out.
>>
>>3610353
And of course, just as I go to respond to the coded Elric reference you come out and say it.
Hard to give a number, but if you keep working at it I'm sure there's no pinnacle you cannot reach.
>>
>>3610352
>Joker
Gotham or Mecha suits?
>>
>>3610364
The mecha suit one, I imagine. The Gotham one isn't legendary.
>>
>>3610352
MYTH&ROID definitely has that stereotypical anime OP sound, you can tell how prolific they are. Good song.
Call me a faggot for liking Vocaloid if you want, Mothy is still great. Daughter of Evil is one of my favorite songs in general, not just JP stuff.
I'm glad you're enjoying the quest, even though you're not so fond of my musical picks. Hopefully I can keep up the same level of quality going forward.
>>
>>3610396
Ah, oops. Nameless and on my phone, but this is me.
>>
>Alberich
Hero that thinks he's some sort of autistic Japanese highschool student
>Shirou Emiya
Autistic Japanese highschool student that thinks he's some sort of hero
>>
>>3610367
Fair enough.
I feel they both share this quest's pension for twists, secrets, and missing waifu that never end up being ok though.
>>
>>3610446
>missing waifu that never end up being ok
S-shut up!
>>
>>3610300
I just went and listened to that. Damn! It's really good, and I'd like to use it. Too bad it's already tied to that series.
>>
>>3610460
A good OP tied to an absolute trainwreck of a series.
>>
Turning back to Judas being inside us, having an experienced Caster to talk to might be a fortuitous turn of events. For example, we might be able to ask him about Vaisset's research, which we haven't been sure we could get use out of thus far. Now, that's not to say we should start trusting him entirely. Judas might not have intended to make a hero needed by the modern era at all. His goal was more likely to create the hero his Master needed to win the Tokyo Grail War. If so, he's not necessarily interested in our long-term well-being.

>>3610466
It's unfortunate that it was so bad since the premise could have been a lot of fun.
>>
>>3610474
Yeah, being able to ask Judas things could be helpful. Like "WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY WAIFUS" for one.

As for Mirai Nikki, it was just so disappointing. I don't know how you make alternate timeline bullshit boring and predictable but they managed it.
>>
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>>3610484
Like, when I say they wholesale stole Kowaru.
I mean it.
He has an immensely similar role and is some sort of Angel like being.
He even dies via decapitation.
>>
>>3610364
>>3610367
obviously grimdark mech persona mystery hour.
>>
>>3610460
If so you might also find that Magia by Kalafina which was used in Madoka also works incredibly as ending due to how much lyrics fit.
>>
>>3610510
The ED is Futatabi, though. Mentioned that back in Part I.
https://youtu.be/OP29PdsbYTI
>>
Assuming we survive this grail war and incarnate, what would be our next step?
>>
>>3610516
Crashing Alaya, with no survivors.
Well
Some survivors.

But bringing the Gods back can't hurt.
Gilgamesh thinks that modern humans are too shit to rule over.
I'm inclined to agree
>>
>>3610516
I dunno, adopt Ayaka? She does not have a legal guardian.
>>
>>3610539
Absolutely wholesome.
>>
>>3610502
Even though he's a ripoff, I thought he was going to be fun to have on screen when he first showed up and started manipulating the diaries' limitations to fix games of chance against their owners. But of course, nothing like that ever happened again...

>>3610516
Acquire a source of food and a suitably resplendent residence.
>>
>>3610559
ID, I think that acquiring a gigantic palace in our specs may be difficult without some major changes.
>>
I just hope we'll get the opportunity to reveal our origins to Saber.
I wonder how she would respond...
>>
>>3610659
In cheese over the top monolog or during drunk mutual rant about dubious Casters telling you what to do?
>>
>>3610667
Either would be fun.
Remember when we asked Circe for a magic cloak and she cut our hand off?
Good times.
Fucking Magi.
>>
>>3610678
Except due to conceptual biology, I don't think it's even possible for us to get drunk.
>>
>>3610688
Kinda likely.
Eternal designated Riding: E driver.
>>
>>3610695
Our Riding skill is liable to increase, though.
>>
>>3610695
It'll get better, eventually. Hey, maybe we can go looking for a mountable Spirit.
>>
>>3610701
I'm going to ignore the easy innuendo here.
What should we go for?
A Pegasus would be ideal but that requires us to have a high rank.
Dragons are a pain because you need a special skill to ride them, though.
It's possible we could attempt to negotiate with one though, not quite sure of their average intelligence.
Sphinx could also be neat.
Griffin is also likely possible.
A Basilisk would be OP but they also look ridiculous.
We should just try to raise Riding.
>>
>>3610726
All of those are phantasmal beasts, and require a much higher rank of Riding than you've got.
Other than raising Riding gradually, your best bet would be to find a sentient mount and convince it to carry you, rather than trying to ride it.
>>
>>3610726
Actually the more I think about it, the cooler a Griffin sounds.
It's a fusion between a Lion, the king of beasts and an Eagle, the king of birds.
Truly, a mount fit for a king.
>>
>>3610735
I figured as much.
Well, I guess we'll see how it goes.
>>
How about summoning Fafnir with our sword and striking a deal with him?
>>
>>3610761
Hope you got enough gold to buy him.
>>
Seriously though, you would probably have to give up Golden Rule A for him to even acknowledge you.
>>
>>3610761 #
How about summoning Fafnir and immediately shanking him for that bullshit invulnerablity?
Also it would likely give our sword a Dragon-slaying attribute, meaning Arturia deals against it poorly.
Just sayin.
And if you don't get fucked over by a linden leaf you have no weaknesses.
>>
>>3610807
Fafnir isn't there for you to summon. He was killed by Siegfried long ago.
>>
>>3610891
Of course he is, the Nibelunglied wouldn't have been able to resolve without it.
>>
Whoops messed up my spoiler tags.
>>3610891
How about we summon Sieg and do that exact same thing?
Jokes aside, probably should have expected as such.
Eh, plenty more Dragons and other Legendary creatures in the ocean.
And because we aren't actually Human at all, we will be able to negotiate with the intelligent ones far better.
>>
>>3610898
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The events of the Nibelungenlied happened long in the past, and included Fafnir's death. Since he died long ago, you can't contact the living Fafnir in the Realm of Imaginary Numbers. No such being exists.
>>
>>3611018
That's what I meant, it's doubtful that the deceased go to IN Space.
>>
>>3611025
Well, the long-deceased.
>>
So if we do convince a mount from IN Space to carry us, what would you guys want?
And if your answer is "A dragon" what's your second preferred mount? Dragons are kind of a given, after all.
I'm leaning towards a Griffin, personally.
>>
>>3610891
i mean technically the nature of IN space means that its possible for something that is identical in every way to fafnir while not being fafnir to exist. It’s literally impossible to know because of how imaginary physics work. The ground over there can literally be made of fafnirs, or it could be a unit of energy or distance somehow, if distance is even a thing in IN.
Honestly, the shit the gods must experience over there should be mindbreaking.
>>
>>3611110
>Honestly, the shit the gods must experience over there should be mindbreaking.
And we're gonna go straight inside.
>>
>>3611135
Fuck it.
We were born in the place anyway.
>>
>>3611142
Fuck yeah, dimension hopping!
>>
Alright, I'm home and ready to do the update now. Anybody want to tally the votes for me? Linking got a bit confused.
>>
btw if Tiamat wouldn't kill us, what would she do if we ran into her?
>>
>>3611277
I ain't gonna count, but the self preservation + self determination votes seem to have it
>>
>>3611277
I think the custom option here >>3610134
won victory, it's a hell of vote changes away from Self Preservation.
Then there are other custom write-ins, which I have no idea what to count for
the Custom has 5 votes, at least.
>>3611293
Who knows, honestly?
But you wouldn't just "run into her" in Number Space. She's properly sealed in there iirc.
>>
>thread has already hit bump limit
Will it surpass Awakening 1's post count?
>>
>>3611330
I can only hope so. One of my big goals is to match the consistent post numbers that guy running the One Piece quest gets.
>>
>>3611330
No way, Sweets would need to be really active and drop a couple other nukes w/o a major hang-up naming/upgrade vote
>>
>>3611343
To be fair, lotta that post count is pointless shitposting and dicefaggotry.
Not a lot of discussion goes on there despite having an incredible amount of players.
>>
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>>3611099
A manticore could be neat to tie in to the lion imagery we got
>>
>>3610134
I'd like to take this moment to point out that Miss and Ms. have two different meanings. Alberich calls her Miss Ayaka.
>>
>>3611389
Could also see about a Unicorn, I guess. I don't know about the aesthetics of us riding a unicorn though.
>>
>>3611406
I honestly don't understand the difference since when they're spoken they sound exactly the same. How is someone supposed to hear the abbreviation?
>>
>>3611414
Nah, that's a common mispronunciation of Ms. It's supposed to be read with a soft S, like in reads, whereas Miss has a hard S, like in sweet.
>>
>>3611425
... That sounds fucking neurotic and precise and not something you'd notice unless you were actually trying to catch it.
>>
>>3611435
It's very obvious when you actually hear it. The difference between the S in sound and the S in as.
>>
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>>3611435
>fucking neurotic
Anon, it is simply etiquette.
Regardless it wouldn't really matter here because we're actually speaking Japanese in the same way everyone in MGS3 is speaking Russian.
>>
>>3611452
>We're actually speaking Japanese
Reminder that I use JP honorifics when the characters do. Alberich inserts the English Miss Ayaka (and M. Vaisset) into his speech the same way Leo Harway does in Extra. He started doing it after being summoned because he thought it was a good way to make himself seem foreign.
>>
>>3611461
Oh, neat. I thought that when you converted the odd -chan in my writeins it was just a thing, cool to know there's actually some thought behind it.
>>
>>3611461
That's actually a good reason why he would mix up Ms. and Miss.
>>
>>3611461
Ah I see.
But would Ayaka and Alberich know the difference between Ms and Miss?
I-
Let's just stop this right here before it goes any further and just use Miss.
>>
I really hope we don't get any of the Emiyas killed by involving them in this.
Then again they did somehow all make it through Heaven's Feel except Illya :( and that's Holy Grail War set to Nightmare mode difficulty.
>>
>>3611543
>spoiler
We're gonna make sure she makes it this time.
>>
>>3611277
So what vote ended up winning?
>>
>>3611580
The write-in at >>3610134. I'm working on the update now.
>>
"A wish," you say, and consider the subject for a few moments before continuing, "I don't suppose I have a wish in the immediate sense. When we obtain the Holy Grail, I intend to use its power to incarnate myself, and go on living beyond the end of the War; but one couldn't exactly call that a 'wish' in the same sense as wishing for wealth or fame, or to save the world. All the same, it seems a worthy reason to fight. If the life of Yumigawa Rushorou was not mine, then it becomes all the more important that I live on."

"So you're fighting to survive, huh? I guess we have more similar motivations than I thought," Ayaka says with a faint smile.

"No," you say softly, coming to a realization. "Not only to survive. You see, Caster says he created me; that he planned my life, orchestrated my growth so that I would become able to fill the role he planned for me. That idea rankles, Miss Ayaka. It eats at me, the thought of being a pawn in the scheme of another!"

"It seems I do have a wish at that," you declare. Your voice is rising now, as you find the proper shape for the formless rage that had been swirling in you since Judas finished speaking. "I would be free to live and choose my own fate and its circumstances, not those planned by Caster!. As you speak, you bring a fist down hard against the table in a moment of pique, and the impact makes you realize the extent to which you'd let your emotions take control. You force them down, bringing your voice back to your normal, better modulated tone.

"That's it, Miss Ayaka," you say. "I'm fighting to live on my own terms, unbound by Caster's machinations. Of course it is difficult to say how difficult such a wish will be to grant, considering the extent to which he seems to have predicted my actions in the past. Nevertheless, that is my desire; my reason for fighting."

"I see," Ayaka says. "Well, I don't think wanting to be free is a wish anyone could call wrong." Then she leans forward, catching you by surprise as she takes your hand across the table and stares into your eyes. "This may sound strange now, after we've already been through fighting one Servant, but thank you for telling me. It makes it easier to be by your side, knowing what you want from the Holy Grail."

There's a long moment of silence, as you find yourself temporarily without words, looking into her eyes. You see your own red gaze reflected in her blue, and see her as if for the first time. Clear, creamy skin framed by midnight-black hair; lips the color of cherry blossoms; those fine, soft features. You knew she was beautiful before now, of course, but it's never affected you so. Indeed, it's a reversal of the usual dynamic. Now you're the one flustered, suddenly taken with Ayaka's charms as you haven't been before, while she stays serene.

"It's," you mutter, but leave the sentence unfinished. "Of course."
>>
You draw your hand away from hers. The moment fades, and you find your wits about you again. "I'm fortunate to have such a generous master," you remark, and put on a wry smirk to recover the confidence you'd lost. "It's a reasonable fear, you know, that one called a Master might take issue with a wish for freedom. You're very understanding, Miss Ayaka."

"Well, you've been making all the decisions about the War anyway," the girl answers coolly. Either she's as content as you are to leave emotional topics behind or she's stung by the manner of your reply, and hiding it well. "It'd be pretty strange for me to get mad about it now. Speaking of which, what do we do next, Saber-san? It's past three, now, and I'm sure the other Masters aren't spending all day sitting at home."

"You make a good point, Miss Ayaka," you say. "We ought to make use of every spare minute if we are to seize victory."

>[ ] "To which end, I should be training. Once the sun sets we should go looking for our next enemy, but until then I must prepare." (Pride)

>[ ] "This is a good time to coordinate with the Emiya family. I know you have your doubts, but if we can see what information they have and potentially make use of them in combat tonight, I'm sure it would be a great help." (Compassion)

>[ ] "Right now, our highest priority should be reconnaissance. Your brother used familiars, but do you have any magical means of collecting information about our enemies?" (Duty)

>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] "This is a good time to coordinate with the Emiya family. I know you have your doubts, but if we can see what information they have and potentially make use of them in combat tonight, I'm sure it would be a great help." (Compassion)
It is time.
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] "To which end, I should be training. Once the sun sets we should go looking for our next enemy, but until then I must prepare." (Pride)
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] "This is a good time to coordinate with the Emiya family. I know you have your doubts, but if we can see what information they have and potentially make use of them in combat tonight, I'm sure it would be a great help." (Compassion)
>>
>>3611647
>>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
This is a good time for you to decide what you think is best. If you're concerned about teaming up with the Emiya family, the Einzbern Master has made some overtures to me as well. *Inform Ayaka of all the details*

She is right about us making all the decisions. And I don't want to damage our partnership by forcing her into teaming up with the Emiya family.
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] Maybe it is time to take advantage of Einzbern master's confusion.
Help in the war with no risk of getting found out by the priest and someone who would potentially allow us more insight in our own artificial being.
>>
>>3611692
>we're making the decisions
Damn right we are.
Who won a grail war out of the pair of them?
Alberich did.
>>
>Now you're the one flustered, suddenly taken with Ayaka's charms as you haven't been before, while she stays serene
Oh Alberich.
This course of action is not recommended.
>>
>>3611728
You're right, but I don't want to shut Ayaka out completely. We're still gonna be stuck with her if we push her around.
>>
>>3611743
Ayaka is letting us decide that is a lot different than pushing her around.

She already voiced her reservations in regard to teaming up with the Emiyas now it's our decision if we want to go ahead with it anyway.
>>
>>3611761
We don't need to go out and fight with them.
Just seeing if they have any info would be nice
AND THEY HAVE QUITE A LOT OF INFO ON A CERTAIN ENEMY SABER.
>>
>>3611767
Of course, we don't know that IC
>>
>>3611767
And we know that how? Even if we use our meta knowledge here I don't see how we could apply that knowledge besides maybe taunting her. I mean dodging Excaliburblasts is just common sense.
>>
>>3611735
>This course of action is not recommended.
What kind of hero would you be if you didn't have a weakness for pretty girls?
>>
>>3611776
Of course, it does stand to reason that Rider would've been scouting, though.
Rin is also there now.
If we do go, should we tell them the truth about ourselves?
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] "Right now, our highest priority should be reconnaissance. Your brother used familiars, but do you have any magical means of collecting information about our enemies?" (Duty)
>>
>>3611778
>Dodging
>Not just absorbing Excaliblasts with our cloak
Talk about a missed opportunity to show off.
>>
>>3611783
Why would we?
>>
>>3611787
>absorbing it with our cloak and not just opening a portal for it to harmlessly pass through with our sword.
>>
>>3611789
Because they already know most of the truth.
>>
>>3611647
>>3611692
>>3611697
Supporting these. Definitely tell her about the Einzbern.
>>
>>3611781
You're not wrong there, I guess.
>>
>>3611792
And that means we need to tell them about every deeply personal insight we gain?
>>
>>3611800
Sure why not.
>>
>>3611803
But... Why?
>>
>>3611803
Because generally you don't tell people who are basically strangers about things that are normally considered private. It's neither expected nor in any way useful to share them.
>>
>>3611789
>>3611800
>>3611807
>>3611811
While it may not be advisable or even necessary to tell them that we're a copy and that Real Rushorou is still strutting about and such, it may be prudent to reveal some information depending on how a meeting goes. In the unlikely event that they insist on openly cooperating in the face of the potential bounty, revealing that Judas was the creator of Akeldama and that he remains inside of us might convince them otherwise. Judas has a pretty bad rep for stabbing people in the back, and we still don't know just how much influence he has. Judas still wants to win the war while they want to stop it, Judas might be able to hijack our body and backstab them if a good opportunity presents itself.
>>
>>3611790
>not opening a portal for it and then letting it out through our cloak
Stay in school, kid
>>
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>>3611807
Because this is a face you can trust.
>>
>>3611647


>[ ] "This is a good time to coordinate with the Emiya family. I know you have your doubts, but if we can see what information they have and potentially make use of them in combat tonight, I'm sure it would be a great help. And if not in battle then training would be our best course of action, I know that they must be highly talented individuals. In order to win we must strive for constant improvement for ourselves, a King must be a great man and his equipment greater if he is to lead his people after all. To be a cut above even the highest calibur in all fields he partakes!" (Compassion/Pride)

At long last, WE CAN FINALLY TRAIN WITH SWORD-SWORD AND SIGHT PROBLEMS
>>
>>3611832
But does he still have such a trustworthy face 15 years later?
>>
>>3611827
That would be a case of revealing it for a reason. And we can revisit the issue when we actually have a reason, but as it currently stands revealing it just for the sake of revealing it to basically strangers is not appealing.
>>
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>>3611836
Yes.
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] While we're laying everything out on the table between Master and Servant, tell Ayaka about the Einzbern master. Then,
>[ ] "This is a good time to coordinate with the Emiya family. I know you have your doubts, but if we can see what information they have and potentially make use of them in combat tonight, I'm sure it would be a great help." (Compassion)
>>
>>3611834
Where is this king talk coming from, all of a sudden?

>>3611830
Have you been practicing that?
>>
>>3611909
It's criminal how much we've been neglecting Kenotis.
>>
We've got 4 votes for suggesting the Emiya collaboration and 4 for raising the subject of the Einzberns, counting >>3611879 as both.
Thoughts?
>>
>>3611909

Hey, the world is our oyster and our legend is to grow. Who says that we CAN'T be King?

>>3611921

We've been using it well enough, not like we're having constant battles enough to deal with it. But luckily we'll have two good sparing partners to deal with in Medusa and Shirou so we can practice more with Kenotis
>>
>>3611929
To add to this discussion, I've just thought of a very dangerous possibility: while we can't know this in-character, Assassin could follow us to the Emiya household and plot to kidnap the Emiya kids on their way to or from school as part of Lily's plan to force us to "regain our memories" and become her onii-chan.

>>3611932
I don't think there's anywhere we could really do that without drawing the attention of other Masters and the overseer.
>>
>>3611929
Put everything on the table and trust in Ayaka-sama
>>
>>3611944
>spoiler
Wait what? Since when was that it?
>>
>>3611952
If you mean Lily's plan, since >>3603966
>We're going to restore Onii-chan's memory and bring him back into the family properly!
>>
>>3611944

Not with that attitude we're not!

But honestly, I'm curious as when we acquire new skills will they be something from Fate proper? Or will Sweets cook up something original that fits into Alberich more?
>>
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>>3611962
>that last line
Ah, I forgot about that.
>>
>>3611970
The answer to that question is "yes."
>>
>>3611944
>Spoiler
Oh man that would cause Rider, Sakura, and Shirou would go on a huge ass warpath. Mostly Sakura now that I think about it.
>>
>>3611647
>[ ] "This is a good time to coordinate with the Emiya family. I know you have your doubts, but if we can see what information they have and potentially make use of them in combat tonight, I'm sure it would be a great help." (Compassion)
As much as training is interesting to do they still have their potential uses. It is not like we obligated to take Medusa`s hand and go jolly cooperation hunting with her just by checking with them.
>>
>>3612158

Well in any case I believe that we should scout out for one of the only three servants that we haven't met found yet.

I'd recommend finding either Berserker or Lancer next, alternatively we could go for Caster so we can get upgrade Kenotis should s/he have something that'd sync well to it.

Still of the thought that Archer is Heracles so best we get stronger before fighting him. Who knows? Maybe a threeway battle between Us, Herc and Artoria would be fun certainly

But really based on what little information we have, who do you anons think Archer could likely be?
>>
>>3612168
Archer is described as having bronzed skin, curly hair and a beard, while Heracles has black skin (God Hand) and straight hair, and no beard.
>>
>>3612168
Just sending Emiyas after Saber and Harris after we name drop them would be pretty beneficial for us and relatively easy to pull. No matter the result it should benefit us. At worst we just lose a chance to steal Excalibur.
>Caster
Technically thats us. Since it was Judas and we took his place.
>But really based on what little information we have, who do you anons think Archer could likely be?
Herc or Odysseus most likely.
But it could as well be Paris or Philoctetes.
>>
>>3612183
Berserker Heracles is also Berserker Heracles.
Berserker Lancelot doesn't look much like Saberlot
>>
>>3612168
Watch it be Odysseus for max fuckery when we get Circe back
>>
>>3612183
>>3612193
Oh yeah. Archer Heracles was a thing in Fate/strange fake. Description differs from ours. Although looting Pelt of the Divine Beast would have been great.
>>
>>3612189

>Technically thats us. Since it was Judas and we took his place.

Yeeeaaah while true I'm not really sure that we're not gonna get off just like that honestly.

>>3612198

Hey for extra fuckery I got a fantastic idea if it's Odysseus. Drown him

>>3612204

It really would, I just hope Lancer or Berserker has something that Syncs well with Kenotis. Which then again: What WOULD sync best with Kenotis NP wise?
>>
>>3612209
If our new sword is anything to go by than it is better to have similar item type and somewhat overlapping sources of power but different abilitites like IN sword we had and Miracles in Durandal. So it is really depends on specific items or skills I`d say.
If for example burnt houses were Berserker`s work it could be Kiyohime than with our Conceptual Biology it seems plausible that we could take her dragon properties to greatly empower us.
>>
>>3612230

>If for example burnt houses were Berserker`s work it could be Kiyohime than with our Conceptual Biology it seems plausible that we could take her dragon properties to greatly empower us.

Aren't you forgetting another Servant with dragon properties anon?
>>
>>3612189
It's mentioned that the arrows "hit like cannonballs" when we blocked them right after killing Roland, so Archer must be stronger than us at the very least.

Also, Haruo saw Archer wearing armor, so it can't be Heracles. Since Paris wasn't known for his strength and Philoctetes was known for having Heracles' poisoned arrows, so we would've seen something. The same reasoning excludes Heracles himself.

That makes me think Archer is Oddyseus.
>>
>>3612241

Ahhh but while we look to Greece we shouldn't forget Rome either. I'd personally find it fun to fight a Servant from Rome due to our love of Greece.

It'd be even more hilarious if it was Aneias, but yeah I don't remember him being skilled with arrows at all.
>>
>>3611827
If you wanna work with them then we absolutely shouldn't tell them that we might betray them at any moment
>>
>>3612230
>Kiyohime
Imagine only liking your master because you're under the impression it's somebody else.
Honestly I'd like to kill the war's Bahsahkah soon.
Anyway, when I say "should we reveal our true story?" I'm saying should we reveal it later on?
The entire House would feel bad for us. Shirou and Sakura especially.

I wish we could tell Circe and Adelheid.

I want to protect Lily.
>>
>>3612351
Why do you want them to pity you so much?
>>
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>>3612379
I just want to make people feel bad in general.
>>
>>3611647
>>3611692
This
>>
If Alberich finds out Lily's backstory I can easily see him sympathising with her.
Both of them have memories of somebody else.
Neither of them are human.
They look very similar.
They were both created for the sole purpose of achieving victory in a grail war.
They both show psychopathic tendencies at times. (I'm assuming this for Lily, at least, but come on.)
They are both being manipulated by the powerful magus who created them.
>>
>>3612414
Oh, other similarities.
They both speak in a very refined manner
They both consider themselves superior to the vast majority of their peers (for good reason)
Both are grail war cheats.
They are both destined to die after the war unless a Miracle occurs.
>>
To amuse myself and pass the time, I made a list of possible powerupssome selected NPs and one skill from F/SN could give us. Some of these are impossible or highly improbable, and this is just an exercise in judging an NP's synergy with one of ours.
>Invisible Air+Kenotis
Very little, since there's not much conceptual synergy.
>Excalibur+Heiligöffnungschwert
Very little for the same reason. Excalibur has nothing that synergizes with it, unlike Durandal's three miracles.
>Gae Bolg+Heiligöffnungschwert
Not much. At the most, unhealing wounds?
>UBW+Self
An RM that recreates the Reverse Side of the World or the IN Dimension?
>Breaker Gorgon+Kenotis
Breaker Gorgon seals magical effects when placed on something, so maybe wrapping something up in Kenotis will seal it in the same way?
>Caladbolg+Heiligöffnungschwert
Both swords have the property of tearing or piercing through anything (Caladbolg does it by distorting space while Heiligöffnungschwert does it by transporting things to the IN Dimension) so there's synergy here. Maybe Heiligöffnungschwert will gain Caladbolg's abilities, constantly distorting space when activated and actively sucking in nearby matter instead of passively transporting whatever it touches.
>Hrunting+Heiligöffnungschwert
Very little.
>Kanshou and Bakuya+Heiligöffnungschwert
Our sword splits into two shortswords. One can summon from the IN Realm, the other can create portals and both can manifest Void and Nothingness. That, or very little.
>Nine Lives+Armour
Our armour now repels all attacks of a rank below A. That's it.
>Rule Breaker+Heiligöffnungschwert
Very little.
>Tsubame Gaeshi
The concept of "three simultaneous attacks" is applied to the miracles of Heiligöffnungschwert, allowing the use of all three miracles at once in a diminished form: a tear in space opens and a torrent of Imaginary Elements is shot out, followed by a single Monstrous or Phantasmal creature if anything survives.
>Gate of Babylon (yeah, as if)+Self
If we become the champion of the gods, will the Reverse Side of the World count as our treasury? Because if not it does jackshit.
>Ea (you wish)
???

Sweets, how accurate (or at least plausible) is this?
>>
>>3612425
Nine Lives is Herc's sealed offensive NP that hits an opponent 100 times very quickly. It's a NP that can be used in combination with any weapon.
Would be very very good.
God Hand is the defensive one that rezzes
God Hand would be excellent applied just to ourselves for the bullshit resistance and self resurrection.

Applying Rule Breaker to our sword would only make it more bullshit, becoming a sword that can sever even magic.

Tsubame Gaeshi is an absolute God Tier skill and a truly undodgeable attack that takes no additional energy to use, it's not a NP.

Actually slapping Ea onto our sword somehow creates the greatest weapon ever.
>>
>>3612432
To add on to this
Tsubame Gaeshi is a skill.
It's not something to apply to a single weapon.
As such, it turns engaging us in melee into a Death Sentence as three simultaneous strikes with an A rank (maybe higher if we figure it's secrets out) Anti-World Noble Phantasm would cut through pretty much any Noble Phantasm used in defence, be they swords, shields or barrier. It would turn almost every single Servant into a pile of limbs and gore

Medea's Argon Coin could be applied to Kenotis to give it the ability to summon a Dragon.

Oh, and while it's impossible because she doesn't have it, applying Avalon to Kenotis would be ridiculous
Some sort of invincible walking wormhole that can even tell Ea to fuck off.
Also the passive regen would render us nigh unkillable, and the regenerative property could probably be used on anyone by just covering them with the cloak.
>>
>we start out wanting to rule the world
>we, instead, end up going home to be a family man, just to piss Judas off
>>
>>3612519
>going home
What home would that be?
Imaginary Number Space?
Judas is a dick, sure.
But despite all that he has done, we must remember that without his machinations, we wouldn't even exist.
We can really be Gil 2.0 if we play it right.
>>
>>3612432
>>3612468
You seem to believe that the thing we absorb is applied directly to the property we enhance, while I think that isn't true.

For example, Durandal was indestructible without any qualifiers while Heiligöffnungschwert is specifically indestructible as long as the concept of "Nothingness" exists, while the three miracles became a dramatic expansion of Lückeschwert's power -- the ability to materialize Imaginary Elements, the ability to open portals into the Realm of Imaginary Numbers and the ability to summon beings from the Reverse Side of the World and anchor them to existence.

As I see it, these new abilities aren't the same as Durandal's, and so I've tried to do something like 'translating' the mysteries in the NPs (and I noted that Tsubame Gaeshi is a skill) into something appropriate for Alberich.
>>
>>3612519
Y'know, I still want to rule the world. It just makes no sense to me, denying your own greatness just because some cunt had it so that you were made that way.
>>
>>3612546
I would tend to agree with you. As I recall Sweet's description of the "merging" process, Alberich essentially blended the concepts of the two entities together. To get a straight copy of something, we would need to go for a straight copy rather than such a blend.
>>
>>3612554
My points still stand on everything I suggested.
And there's no reason not to just straight up copy Nine Lives, God Hand or Tsubame Gaeshi rather than try and blend them.
>>
>>3612566
Straight copies are at best mediocre impersonations though
>>
>>3612602
We don't know that though.
We only know that Archer's gun would've been degraded.
>>
>>3612619
I think it a safe assumption that ripping any skill/ability which has no tie-in with Alberich's current setup will be degraded, unless the ability itself is low-level
>>
>>3612425
This is very well thought out. I'd say that overall this is highly plausible. There are a few things you might want to reconsider, which I'll try to list without too much in the way of spoilers.
Excalibur's synergy isn't quite zero.
Caladbolg, Hrunting, Kanshou, and Bakuya would be impossible for you to copy, since you'd get them secondhand. They're not a part of EMIYA's conceptual makeup as a hero.
Nine Lives is an attack whereas God Hand is Herc's defensive armament. Either could be very useful applied to your equipment.
You may want to reconsider what the core power of Tsubame Gaeshi is.
If you tried to copy Ea, you'd find that you couldn't shape the energy into its form. Without the mind of a divine smith, it's impossible to comprehend its function. Even Gilgamesh fails to really use the blade to its full potential.
>>
>>3612643
>Excalibur's synergy isn't quite zero.
That's what I gathered, but I concluded that it wasn't worth the trouble.
>Caladbolg, Hrunting, Kanshou, and Bakuya would be impossible for you to copy, since you'd get them secondhand. They're not a part of EMIYA's conceptual makeup as a hero.
I already accounted for that in the disclaimer.
>Nine Lives is an attack whereas God Hand is Herc's defensive armament. Either could be very useful applied to your equipment.
I can imagine.
>You may want to reconsider what the core power of Tsubame Gaeshi is.
Yeah, I guess I was reaching too far there.
>If you tried to copy Ea, you'd find that you couldn't shape the energy into its form. Without the mind of a divine smith, it's impossible to comprehend its function. Even Gilgamesh fails to really use the blade to its full potential.
drem cusher ex
>>
>>3612696
Well, Ea is one of the tools used to create the world. Alberich may be above mankind in the celestial hierarchy, but he's not ready for that kind of mindfuck yet.
>>
>>3610353
This just occurred to me, but if you really want to get Heiligöffnungschwert closer to Stormbringer, the sword you want to absorb is Tyrfing.
>>
>>3612712
>above mankind in the celestial hierarchy
Ha! Take that Arturia!

I do wonder what Excalibur would do.
Other than the possible rank up and better Excaliblasts, there is that part where it can fuck up planetary threats when they appear. The same planetary threats that kick the shit out of Gods.
But other than that tenuous link, I don't have anything.
>>
>>3612760
>Ha! Take that Arturia!
She's above mankind in the celestial hierarchy too, though.
>>
>>3612768
Dream Crusher EX.
Though in FGO terms would we not be a Sky attribute servant?
Or are we Earth attribute, like Arturia?
I want to strangle the person who localised it as "Altria". How do you fuck up so bad?
>>
>>3612736
Literally the only thing Tyrfing has over Heiligöffnungschwert is never missing. And the curse is really not worth it.

A better alternative might be Hrunting, which always seeks the optimal slash, if we don't mind rendering Heiligöffnungschwert unsuitable for sparring with forever.
Another alternative is Crocea Mors, which lets us hit as many times as possible until a Luck check fails.

Of course, I have no idea how these will translate.
>>
>>3612778
>in FGO terms
You can stop there. The sky-earth-man-star attribute system is poorly explained and horribly documented. I reject it.

I feel like Saber Alter should've been called Altria, though. Overall my pick for romanization is Artoria, as it's the female form of latin Artorius.

>>3612788
The joke is that Stormbringer is a cursed sword which causes its wielder to do evil, like Tyrfing. Hrunting would be much better as an actual upgrade.

>>3612241
>It's mentioned that the arrows "hit like cannonballs" when we blocked them
I feel the need to point out that EMIYA's arrows are described in the VN in the following way:
>It's like a barrage from a machine gun, and each shot could pierce through rocks.
>Eight shots of that.
>It should be able to mow down houses
Any Archer should have massive power behind their arrows, really. It's not like EMIYA is from the Age of Gods.
>>
>>3612778
>Earth: Originated from Gaia or were associated with a certain region (Achilles, Ibaraki-douji)
>Sky: Originated from the heavens, either by being former divinities or of divine blood (Gilgamesh, Enkidu)
>Man: Originally mortal, accomplished great deeds (Shakespeare, Sasaki)
>Star: Caused revolutions in human history or were otherwise highly influential (Napoleon, Tesla)
Seems to me that we fall under Man (copied from Yumigawa) or Star (artificial hero of modern times).
>>
>>3612806
>I reject it
Based Sweets does it again

>Any Archer should have massive power behind their arrows, really. It's not like EMIYA is from the Age of Gods
Truth.
>>
>>3612816
God, I hate this system so much. Star is supposed to be this ultimate attribute that triumphs over the others, but all of the star-class Servants are massively lower in terms of logical power than any sky Servant. How is Napoleon or Tesla supposed to compare to semi-divine warriors of myth?
Sasaki is classed as originally mortal, when he's a phantom spirit that never existed. He shouldn't be under any of these!
Earth and Sky are the only two that make sense. Man and Star should be lumped in with Earth. Even if you can argue for keeping Man, Star has no reason for existing, and all of its Servants should be in the Man category.
>>
>>3612806
>Archers using arrows
Gil sure shoots some weird arrows, and with FGO Tesla shoots weird arrows as well.
>>
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>>3612806
EMIYA is a fucking cheater though. But yes, Archers are generally bullshit and the fact they don't sweep every war is testament to them being massive assholes or their Master being shit/a retard/moralfag supreme.
Hell, they even have Independent Action, which totally fucks anyone trying to use the same strategy they can easily go for.
Fucking Archer sniping Shirou on the bridge in HA.
I maintain that if Berserker's Master in F/SN was anybody but Illya (or another person he knew, I guess, but iirc he felt especially bad about Illya.) he would've just won by killing them and running. Even still he managed to kill Berserker a lot.

And I'm glad we're not using the FGO system. Da Vinci is full of shit. pic related was somewhat satisfying.
>>
>>3612855
Archers are physically ninnies tho
>>
>>3612869
Does it really matter if you can just kill masters from kilometres away and fuck off?
The only sort of counter to Archers just ganking masters with their bullshit is a powerful Caster.
>>
>>3612870
Oh, or an Fortress Noble Phantasm, which are unbelievably rare.
>>
>>3612876
>an fortress
A fortress.
I can't believe I've done this.
>>
>>3612869
>what is arjuna
>>
>>3612895
Have you looked at the guy? Looks like he'd keel over in a light breeze.
>>
Announcement!
I have a tentative pick for the OP:
Dramaturgy, by Eve
https://youtu.be/jJzw1h5CR-I
>>
>>3612910
>STRENGTH:A
>ENDURANCE:B
>AGILITY:B
>MANA:B
>LUCK:A++
>NP:EX
Indian Heroes are stupid overpowered bullshit.
The Indians are the powerlevelfags of mythology.
>>
>>3612895
>1 servant is the fucking strong, therefore the class is as well
I bet Gilles de Rais makes caster the worst class too
>>
>>3612924
But Caster is the worst class though.
Over half the servants have "Fuck over Caster" as a built in ability.
Caster as a class are kind of designed to lose the war.
Because nobody really wants a Caster to get the grail.
>>
>>3612933
Assassin is worse than Caster, change my mind
>>
>>3612933
They have still great utility and masters generally lack any kind of magic defense sufficient to defend against them which opens up that as an attack vector.
Hell we have seen how useful just scrying alone is.
>>
>>3612933
Anon, come on now. Caster is the most broken class.
>>
>>3612959
Circe and Medea are practically top tier as far as Casters go.
With Assassin you know you're gonna get a pretty decent servant regardless.
Usually.
>>
>>3612922
Quality pick boss
>>
>>3612980
Yeah, but because of how powerful they could be, everyone gets magic resistance.

I don't really get it either but Medea is apparently the weakest servant in the 5th war.
Which is kinda bullshit considering what a pain she is.
>>
>>3612922
Based. Glad to have facilitated your discovery of EVE
>>
>>3612993
>I don't really get it either but Medea is apparently the weakest servant in the 5th war.
Weaker than EMIYA?
>>
>>3613169
Remind me how Caster and Kuzuki die in UBW.
>>
By the way, we agreed to get the stat boost from Bazakah if we kill them, right?
>>
>>3613371
I say we get the stat boost from whatever servant we kill that has the worst-aligned set of skills/NPs
>>
>>3613154
He's no Crystal King, but of the OP candidates I've been listening to I think Dramaturgy is the best fit in terms of lyrical relation to Fate/Awakening Mirror.
I also really appreciate that it has a cut-off point right at 1:30, fitting for an OP.
>>
>>3613397
We can always grab NPs/skills from servants we killed prior to the current sacrifice.
It stands to reason, however, that Berserker would give the highest parameter increase due to them usually being the physical monsters of a war.
>>3612922
Very nice. It's very fitting.
>>
Remember a few threads back where we were wondering if Mana Burst would be possible?
Now anons are wondering about getting shit on the level of Nine Lives or Tsubame Gaeshi.
Things sure did change, huh?
>>
>>3613545
You still don't have any of those, of course. Who can say what's really possible?
>>
>>3613549
You.
You can say that.
>>
>>3613549
Say Sweets, if we push that Gods angle we're going to have to pay Gray a visit sometime. Could Alberich handle Rhongobongo?
>>
>>3613415
In that case, i take it that there is a ’one eyed man’ yet to be seen here too. Judas would have been a great fit for Akeldama, but now that he’d already been put in the limelight there has to be another pupeteer stringing us along.

I’ve never heard of Crystal King, but IMO EVE is great not because of his music, although it certainly is very good, but because of the accompanying beautiful animations so rife with symbolism and subtext. I spent 6 hours just analysing every frame, line and theme in one of those videos and wrote up a massive theory on its true meaning, just to post in the commentsection, and as autistic as that sounds, i still dont regret it. Its probably the most investment ive ever comitted to a youtube video in my life, and im pretty sure i still got a lot of things wrong or missed entire themes. I guess what i am trying to say is that EVE isnt an auditory experience as much as it is a visual one.
>>
>>3613720
Interesting. I can't say I'm as devoted to the song as you are, so you might end up disappointed. For me, music is definitely auditory. I appreciate having the video because printed the lyrics, but ideally the OP would have its own minute and a half of animation for Fate/Awakening Mirror.
As for Crystal King, they recorded Ai wo Torimodose, which might be my favorite anime OP song of all time. In any case it sits alongside Kuusou Mesorogiwi as an "ideal OP song that I can't use because it's taken."
>>
>>3613717
Clonking Rhongo with Heiligöffnungschwert ends the world.
But honestly, if we can beat Arturia, a far weaker sorta clone with no Excalibur and a mystic code as their primary weapon will go down in seconds.
Honestly, we can probably kill a large number of talented magi just by figuring out how to Excaliblast with imaginary element shit and paying the Clocktower a visit.
Anti-World > Your defences, fuck you.
The only problems they might have for us are Aoko, Zelretch and possibly the Bartholomei girl.
And Zelretch might not even get involved.
>>
>>3613747
Read: "hopefully Zelretch won't get involved oh god this was an awful idea why the fuck are his powers so broken save me ORT."
>>
>>3613747
>And Zelretch might not even get involved.
>>
>>3613766
Did you see the asshole get involved in FGO despite being able to fight fucking Types and win?
>>
So are we still waiting for a decisive vote or is QM busy?
>>
>>3613777
I'm busy writing the update, more specifically.
>>
>>3613781
Oh ok great. Get Hype.

>>3613786
Nigga you post way too often not to have voted yet.
>>
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>>3613747
Huh, I thought getting rid of Rhon would kickstart the AoG again. Guess I've misread the mats.

>>3613775
What are you talking about, he's Master of Chaldea's best friend! :^)
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>>3613794
Not in my Chaldea. Bastard won't show up.
>>
>>3613792
I meant I would switch from going to visit the Emiyas if there was a tie
But there wasn't.
>>
"Before we take action, however, I have one more piece of information to relate," you say, raising a finger. It's time to tell Ayaka about your encounter with the Einzbern girl and her mysteriously insightful attendant.

"There's something else?" Ayaka's voice is disbelieving. "You sure have gotten a lot of secrets together in the last few days, Saber-san."

"I suppose so," you answer. "But after this, you'll know as much as I do." You cast your mind back to the other night, looking into the middle distance as you call up the details of the encounter.

"On Thursday night, after I met with the Emiya family for the first time; the night Rider was summoned, you'll recall; I had a very unusual encounter as I was returning to this house. There was a car, which had been monitoring me at other times as well; a limousine. As I walked, it rounded a corner and waited for me down the street. I would have to pass it to continue on my way. I'd had enough of it, and wanted to know who was following me, so I decided to wait; let it come to me."

"As it happened," you say, deciding to pick up the pace a bit, "the passengers in that limousine were the Einzbern master, a young girl named Liliesviel; and a man by the name of Otto Niemand. Both of them were something more than human, judging by the mystic energy they possessed, but I don't believe Niemand was a Servant. Liliesviel, clearly, was a homunculus, and she seems to have believed that I was one as well; an agent sent by the Einzbern family head. I believe we may be able to make use of this misunderstanding."

"Interesting," Ayaka says. "I remember Nii-san telling me the Einzbern homunculi were all albinos. I guess you do look like one of them." She pauses to think, resting her chin in her hand before continuing, "But why'd you bring this up now? I thought you wanted to ally with that outsider, Emiya."

"Your point regarding the danger of interference by the Holy Grail War's overseer was a valid one," you say, "and I grew less confident of my earlier plan on considering it. The Einzbern Master represents another valid course of action. Although I do think this would be an ideal time to contact Emiya, it seems only fair that the final decision be yours as the Master of Saber. It would be disreputable of me to withhold further information from you."

"Well, thank you," Ayaka replies with a smile, "because I definitely prefer this second option. It was the Einzberns who planned the Holy Grail War with my grandfather, after all; I'm sure they'll make good allies. So, how do we contact them?"

"I have no method of doing so," you answer, keeping your face expressionless.

A black eyebrow twitches. "O~kay," Ayaka says, drawing out the word. "What about their home base? Do you know where they are?"

"I do not. Liliesviel told me very little about her approach to the War."
>>
"Then why did you-" Ayaka chokes off her shout after having jumped to her feet in anger. With a heavy sigh, she sinks back into her chair. "So," she says in a strained voice, "just to be certain that I'm understanding you correctly: you don't have any way of contacting the Einzberns, don't know where they're staying in the city, and have no plan of action in case we do want to ally with them. Is that right?"

"I was simply sharing what information was at my disposal with you," you reply. "As I said, I still feel that the most effective thing we can do this evening is meet with the Emiya family. Nonetheless, I felt that you might have some means of contacting the Einzberns at your disposal, given that your family and theirs cooperated to orchestrate the Holy Grail War; and, as I said, I didn't want to keep any more secrets. Hence my report."

"Oh well," she says disappointedly. "I suppose all we can do then is go and meet with these Emiya people. I don't know how my mother and grandfather kept in touch with the Einzberns. Probably they wrote letters to their castle in Europe. Hopefully we'll run into this Liliesviel girl soon, and we can discuss working together then. I assume you do know how to contact Emiya."

"Yes, I was thinking we might walk to their home and visit them. It's not too far away."

"Alright then," Ayaka says. "Let's go. If we're lucky, nobody will pay attention to what we do while it's still light out."

So the two of you make your way to the Emiya home, passing out of the wealthy neighborhood where the Shijou live, through the shopping center, and finally into the more modest suburbs as you go. The two of you draw a few odd looks as you pass, forcing you to reflect on the strange pair you make: a schoolgirl walking beside a tall, albino foreigner in a suit. You never felt such a weight of suspicion from passing strangers before your time in the Akeldama; or rather, Yumigawa Rushorou never felt such suspicion from those he passed. Those memories, you remind yourself, are of another person.

There's no discussion between the two of you as you walk through the town. You're contemplating your identity, thoughts distant from your immediate surroundings. After the revelations of the past few hours, it's easier not to speak. It won't be long before you have to play the part of a diplomat, manipulating Emiya and his wife into playing the role you desire for them in your War; but during this walk, at least, you can rest your mind in silence.

Then you've arrived. You ring the doorbell and wait a minute or so, waiting for someone to come to the door. Just as you're beginning to wonder if they might not be home Emiya's wife, Sakura, opens the door.

"Saber-san, you've come back," she says warmly, greeting you with a smile. "After we didn't hear from you, I was beginning to worry. Please, come in and make yourself at home."
>>
"Thank you." After taking your shoes off in the entryway, you and Ayaka follow Sakura down the long hall that leads to the Emiyas' living room. When you arrive, you find that Sakura's moved on to the kitchen.

"Please sit down, I'm just getting some tea ready," she calls.

Already seated at the coffee table are two people: Emiya Shirou and the fifth Holy Grail War's Rider, both drinking tea. Now she eyes you warily, her hostile fuchsia gaze making Ayaka shrink.

'They're Emiya Shirou and their Servant,' you tell Ayaka telepathically. 'Try to relax. I'll keep you safe if anything happens.'

'Alright,' Ayaka answers, gripping your arm for reassurance.

In sharp contrast with his companion, Emiya gives you a friendly grin. "Hey, Saber," he says heartily, "I'm glad to see you're alright! Sit down, please." Then he turns to Ayaka. "I'm Emiya Shirou. And you?"

"My name is Shijou Ayaka," the girl answers coldly, once you've taken your seats. "The Master of Saber, and Second Owner of Tokyo. It does seem odd that we haven't met, doesn't it? Saber tells me that you are a magus."

"Heheh." Emiya lets out a bashful chuckle. "Sorry about that, Shijou-san; if it makes you feel any better, I'm really only a spellcaster. This new Holy Grail War is the first magical thing I've gotten involved in since moving here."

This qualifier does nothing to improve the girl's mood. You knew that it would be a point of contention that Emiya had avoided revealing his presence to the Shijou family, but at this rate it's threatening to immediately put an end to your hopes of cooperation! You have to intervene before the situation can worsen further.

"Speaking of which," you say, "How have you fared in the War since our last meeting, Emiya-san?" you ask. "You seemed quite motivated to intervene when we last spoke; what has come of that?"

"We should ask you the same," Rider interjects. "You described your Master as a 'he' on Thursday. Now you appear with this girl. How did that come to be, Saber?"

>[ ] Explain that you were hiding information on your Master at the time. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Tell them that your Master died, and his command spells passed to his sister. No more. (Pride)

>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)

>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
>>
>>3613820
>>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)
Yeah sure let's see what they have to say about things.
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)
Ah yes, we are just the bearer of all sorts of bad news.
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell them that your Master died, and his command spells passed to his sister. No more. (Pride)
>>
>>3613820

>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)

Man Shirou must hate this Grail War so much already. Maybe this is the time where he gets All-Caps
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)
Aight lads, how are we gonna off Willy here? Just bonking him with Heil seems boring.
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell them that your Master died, and his command spells passed to his sister. No more. (Pride)

>>3613841
We're not going to off him until after we kill Saber.
>>
>>3613841
Open a rift and chuck him through to be tormented by whatever finds him on the other side?
>>
>>3613841
If we have the means to without Ayaka knowing I don't think we have one I'd thank him for murdering Shijou Vassiet, then cruelly grab his legs with our shadow tendrils and lop his arms off, and just let him die slowly. Or perhaps we should grab him by every limb and dropkick his head so hard It explodes Into shotgun spray of meaty bits?

Sadistic enough payback for killing Ayaka's brother the one we were supposed to protect?
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)
Hmmmmmm, I hate it when compassion is the most logical choice
>>
>>3613931
I don't know about that. To me it only feels logical from the metagame perspective of "Let's tell Shirou about his old Servant." Thinking about it in character, I couldn't come up with a good motivation for telling them besides a vague sense of "I should be honest with people I want to work with," which I classed under Compassion.
The choice most in line with Alberich's established character is the Pride option, I'd say.
>>
>>3613940
Honestly though I just don't think "He conveniently died when I obviously wanted him dead. Woah, how odd." will really satisfy them for an answer.
And Self-Preservation is way out what with the whole Akeldama thing.
>>
I don't know, I guess it's practical to tell him the details. Maybe I'll throw a duty point on there as well.
>>
>>3613931
>>3613950
Do remember the write-in option. If there's a good response I've missed, please go ahead.
>>
>>3613940
I actually wasn't looking at it like that. I was thinking they'd know something about Harris.
But yeah I guess it is kinda metagamey to tell them all this info about saber.
I'll change my vote to
>[ ] Tell them that your Master died, and his command spells passed to his sister. No more. (Pride)
Not sure if it'll matter much though.
>>
>>3613820
>>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)

If nothing else, this William Harris Is a vile character who should be stopped, before he hurts anyone else. Who knows what terrible wish he might have?

>>3613940
I mean, I suppose by the numbers.

We did just Internally go 'I've gotta salvage this.' Coldly giving the barest of Information Isn't going to make things any better here. Ayaka losing composure from hearing the story (for the first time?) might be bad though, though It might also humanize her a bit. I still think this Is a good way to go, even If It complicates things, we've got to extend some kind of olive branch, It's what we came here to do.

Something to note for this conversation Is to play up Ayaka's main desire, which Is to live through this. If we downplay her dutiful magus side, It might work well.
>>
>>3613816
Reminder for the thread.

We need to get Vassiet's car. We can't keep walking everywhere, It wastes time. That time could be spent doing useful things, like reading up on or practicing magic.
>>
>>3613960
Well there's not really many other options
We can try to evade the question with Pride
We can lie about lying with Self-Preservation
Or we can just fess up with Compassion, regardless, informing our potential allies of the capabilities of a definite enemy doesn't harm us at all.
>>
>>3613972
And Imagine the comedy of Saber learning to ride a car, and getting really carried away with It.
>>
>>3613977
>Alberich driving car
>"Did Yumigawa-senpai know how to drive then, Saber-san?"
>"No. He never drove a vehicle once in his entire life."
>crashes into a wall.
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell the whole story of your encounter with Saber and William Harris. (Compassion)
And now, we try to stack the deck against the strongest Servant in the war.

>>3613977
*Irisviel intensifies*
>>
>>3613992
Think how excited Rin is going to be. Two Sabers in one War!
>>
>>3613997
And she didn't summon either of them!
>>
>>3613992
Hey, QM could be hiding an Arjuna Alter level servant. Cant discount those crafty Einzberns.
>>
>>3613820
>[ ] Tell them that your Master died, and his command spells passed to his sister. No more. (Pride)
>>3613940
It's metagaming for sure
>>
>>3614022
>He is a combination of all the gods of the Hindu pantheon, except Kama/Mara.
What in the name of fuck are they even doing anymore?
>>
We should at least tell them that he was killed by Kerry Dos.
>>
>>3613997

I have a great idea!

>Heiligöffnungschwert+Jewel Sword

>>3614025

>It's metagaming for sure

I see it as just being straightforward and honest about what happened. It's not metagaming anon
>>
>>3613984
Riding rank E, baby. We should have rudimentary driving skills, at least on par with a novice just by the existence of the rank. Assuming Ayaka can teach us the basics of operation, some casual driving should get us to rank D In no time.

Servant or no, we should start with the ol parking lot training method or we really will crash Into a wall.

>Alberich driving car
>"Saber-san turn left- AAHAAAAA!"
>*Swerving and honking noises*
>"You said left, Miss Ayaka and I went left, calm your hysterics."
>"At the Intersection! You don't just cut through traffic, you-! We could have been killed you know!"
>*Distant crashing noises* "Doubtful. You're In capable hands, I can feel my expertise rising by the second."
>*Cop car begins flashing lights and sirens*
>"Now look what you've done, we're getting arrested- you don't even have your seatbelt on."
>"I've no need for such a trivial strap, besides, I can dispatch them."
>"In daylight?"
>"...Fine. I have another solution In mind."
>"Which Is?"
>(Pride) *Saber floors It*
>"SABER-SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-"
>*Alberich laughs* "Let's see them try and catch me when I push our steed Into maximum overdrive. Deep breaths, Miss Ayaka."
>*Terrified Ayaka noises*
>>
>>3614044
Good luck finding a servant with the Jewel Sword as their NP
>>3614025
The question to ask yourself is, "If I didn't know who Saber or Shirou were, would I still vote to tell Shirou about our battle?"
The Compassionfags would say yes.
The Pride option would just seem evasive to them and we already know Rider is suspicious as fuck of us.
Self-Preservation sorta paints Ayaka as the one who triggered Akeldama.
>>
>>3613820
>>3613848
Switching to the Compassion option. Withholding information can damage alliances down the line.
>>
>>3613984
>>3614054
Real question: What make/model?
>>
>>3614075
Probably a Corolla.
>>
>>3614054
Oh my god, I love it.

>>3614075
I described it as an "expensive-looking black sedan," but if you want something more specific I'll have to do a bit of thinking.
>>
>>3614022
Fair enough. It's going to need to be super unbelievably bullshit to be more stupid than Saber, though. Even Berserker would have lost if Saber had been properly supplied in FSN. Like, Otto is going to have to be Odin or some shit.
I swear to God, if they really did manage to bullshit a Divine Spirit into a Servant container...

>>3614025
Really? Isn't this precisely the opportunity we were waiting for? The chance to set a powerful force against an enemy we probably can't beat alone?

>>3614075
Toyota Prius
>>
>>3614057

>Good luck finding a servant with the Jewel Sword as their NP

True, true. Still it'd be nice to fuse if it was possible.

Now then since we have a good idea for how fusing NPs together goes. What'd be the best skills to gain even if they may/may not fuse into something new.

I'd be up for taking Artoria's Instinct or Dragon quality due to our Mind's Eye (True) and Conceptual Biology. Hmmmm

Conceptual Biology+Self Modification
>>
>>3614093
Hey, my first car was a Corolla. It was a sturdy thing.
>>
>>3614097

>Like, Otto is going to have to be Odin or some shit.

Who says that Otto is the only Servant they have in play?
>>
>>3614097
You can retroactively justify any vote, but the bottom line is that people are voting to tell Shirou everything about Saber for meta reasons. It was unavoidable when Sweets included so many canon characters, but it's still annoying.
>>
>>3614097
To be fair, Berserker is Hercules summoned into one of his absolute weakest classes.
Alcides/Archer Herc would absolutely annihilate her.
Good luck dodging an arrow version of Nine Lives.
Siegfried also probably defeats her because of compatibility.
Then there's obviously Gil.
I'd argue that Cu would have won even if she was at full power, Cu was being forced to hold back by a certain priest and didn't even use runes.
Karna would beat her too, probably.
>>3614100
>spoiler
Jesus Christ.
>>3614110
Lily.
Lily said that.
Lily specifically mentioned only one servant in the Interlude.
>>3614115
You just want something to complain about, just stop it. Even if it wasn't for metagame reasons you would still call it metagaming.
Rather a Catch-22, that.
>>
>>3614115
Honestly, why are you still complaining about this? It won't change at this point At least it won't until we omae wa mou shindeiru Shirou and co
>>
>>3614115
Well we could always choose to say that we killed him, it would be just as good as the current Pride option. Even just saying that Harris killed him would lead up to the Compassion option anyway, just delayed.
>>
>>3614131
>Well we could always choose to say that we killed him
Could we though?
In front of Ayaka?
That's bound to lead to some serious trouble for no reason, worst case command spell death and best case is we lose all of those affection points we've managed to get.
>>
>>3614125

>Lily.
Lily said that.
Lily specifically mentioned only one servant in the Interlude.

If there is one thing that I know for truth is to never trust anything said by Einzberns. Even Meta wise
>>
>>3614142
>Could we though?
Of course not, I was presenting an extreme option to spite him. I started out voting for Pride, then suggested to tell them about Harris to show some goodwill to them and ended up voting Compassion because we would probably have to explain how Vaisset died without our intervention anyway, but to him that is metagaming.
>>
>>3614075
Alright, Vaisset's car was a 2015 Mercedes-Benz S-Class.
>>
Wait a minute, I just had an epiphany. The Ayaka's ritual is just a sacrificial one, yes? We could absorb the energy of a pidgeon or baseline human, if we so felt like it. Would it be different if we, say.....
>>
>>3614174
>Would it be different if we, say.....
... what?
>>
>>3614176
The Emiyas anon
>>
>>3614174
I don't think I like where this line of thought is going...
>>
>>3614115
Okay say William Harris summoned Lancer, who fights us to a draw or nearly wins, and then Harris kills Vassiet and lets us go.

Later down the line, we tell Shirou of this story because It's a good idea to earn his trust, rather than lie or withhold Information when It was clearly stated the conversation was going south, and we needed to salvage It. Is this course of action meta?

I get your point, but you're missing that there's other motives aside from 'Tell Shirou about Saber!'
>>
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>>3614177
>wanting to sacrifice the Emiyas
>implying Ayaka would be willing to kill a pidgeon
>let alone human beings
>>
>>3614177
I have considered this fact for some time. With their substantial mana, I would think so. I for one, am willing to kill them both for power. We have to be smart about It, however.
>>
>>3610319
Anon, I just want to take a moment to say thank you. This song is fucking amazing.
>>
>>3614177
Anon, I cannot even begin to tell you how many flaws this plan has.
The first is that it won't even work.
The second is Ayaka wouldn't want to
The third is that we'd need to kill Rin, Sakura, Shirou and Rider all at roughly the same time
The fourth is why would you even want to do this, Alberich sort of likes Shirou.
>>3614191
Stop this train of thought immediately. Don't take away their happy ending any more than this grail war already has.
>>
>>3614191
Certainly anon, certainly. Of course, one cannot simply predict what will happen in battle against an entity as powerful as the other Saber.
>>
>>3614209
I mean, we'd have to have Ayaka set up the sacrificial ritual WHICH ONLY WORKS ON SERVANTS on our allies, only one of which is a Servant.
Rin is a highly trained magus and would see right through this shit, too.
and Sakura is far more observant than she lets on and would also notice
Regardless EVEN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE Ayaka would probably tell us no.
>>
>>3614217
Anon, the ritual was designed to absorb the energy of living things. Did you forget what this ritual came from?
>>
>>3614202
Why?

I'm not so sure of that. It's not like she'd be the one doing the job.

I see no reason why it couldn't be done piecemeal, but fair enough

Power obviously. How many breads have you eaten in your life? It's like that, but this is super bread from the heavens endowed with a grail's power.
>>
>>3614224
I mean the whole empowering aspect that actually taking a Servant would get us.
We can't just go around mass sacrificing people in order to level up, can we?
>>
>>3614239
Well now, let's think about that.
You have a ritual art from an old family that specializes in black magic.
You know they used that art most recently to supplement their power by consuming the lives of pigeons, but may have put it to other uses in the past.
You've also proven that this ritual can handle much larger quantities of energy.
You know Servants are beings uniquely able to take in and use the energy of others with far more efficiency than, say, humans.
Do you think you could gain power by sacrificing people en masse, anon?
>>
>>3614202
Let me tell you sir, why It might not just be beneficial-

But necessary.

What did Shirou state he wanted to stop? He wants to stop the war right? In order to Incarnate, we might very well need to get all the way to the point of making our wish to where the grail spills over, If not making the wish outright.

If we do not Incarnate, we will die. We simply will fade away. Bad End. Shirou Emiya and Sakura Emiya both will not allow the Grail and thus Angra Manyu to overflow and undoubtedly destroy their hometown, their life, their kids, possibly the world even. Do you think they'll simply let us complete It knowing that?

No. We'll need to fight Shirou Emiya at some point. Getting a feel for what he and his companions are capable of IC will better allow us to fight him, to kill them. If we can eliminate them on our terms It will be much cleaner and easier than waiting for them to come to stop us as a prepared, unified group.

I'm sorry anon, but Shirou Emiya Is the final boss, as we are the thing that will threaten what he loves most, and he Is the thing that will threaten what we love most from coming to be.

Rejoice, anonymous. For you will have to vote to kill Shirou Emiya with your own hands, or die as a martyr to his wish.
>>
>>3614265
Conclusion: we need Judas' expert opinion before we do anything along the lines of mass human sacrifice.
>>
>>3614265
Ayaka quickly, we must blood fort this school.
>>3614276
But will the grail overflow?
As far as we've seen it hasn't summoned any evil servants except us, and we're an obvious exception (Judas was true neutral)
It's possible that Angry Manjew is actually gone.
>>
>>3614297
And if he isn't we can take the grail to number space and make our wish there.
No humans there for him to twist our wish into harming and we aren't a human ourselves
So get fucked
Manjew.
>>
>>3614276
>Rejoice
BLOOD
>>
>>3614276
While this may all be true who knows, maybe the Einzberns fixed the Grail after Ilya closed it? Or maybe the shadow burnt down those houses we need a lot of firepower to take down the Emiyas.
That means finding the Einzberns and making a deal with them.

However, we can't deal with them directly or we run the risk of having both sides find out. That means we'll have to deal with them through an intermediary, one who can't be associated with us easily.

You know, Lancer and Berserker are still unknowns...
>>
>>3614239
Even regular Servants can sort of do that.

>>3614276
>If we do not Incarnate, we will die.
Alberich is currently sitting across the table from living proof that this is not necessarily true.
>and thus Angra Manyu
Someone fucked up real badly if they managed to corrupt this new grail already. Unless they're somehow working through the old grail, which sounds like more trouble than it's worth.
>>
>>3614323
No but seriously, we can just send the damn thing into IN space along with us.
Then we can use it to incarnate while we are there while everyone else thinks we died.
Then we can get to work.
>>
>>3614361
>Take grail to IN space
>Gods use it instead, screwing us out of our wish
As far as I know, there's no reason this couldn't happen.
>>
Me personally, I do have an issue with simply massacring huge amounts of people for likely marginal gains. An average man is worth little after all. But the Emiyas are a totally different case, where we have an obscene amount of energy bound in only a few lives. Why, it's almost criminal that so much power is used for little to nothing.
>>
>>3614351
>Alberich is currently sitting across the table from living proof that this is not necessarily true.
Shirou is tethered to Sakura because he doesn't make enough magical energy by himself to survive, and a 'normal' human is probably much less demanding than a Servant.
>>
>>3614280
>Hey Judas I think a thousand wasn't enough, we should shoot for two thousand
>Alright I got you, let me give you the rundown-

>Man, Judas Is such a bro

>>3614323
>Implying they would bother to fix It when clearly, It works just fine

>>3614297
Emiya seems to think Manjew Is still connected to It, and I bet If anything when Rin gets back from wherever she Is with Zeltretch, she can probably confirm that one way or the other.

And might Immediately out us as an enemy, too.

>>3614317
If that's possible, great. I however am skeptical It would work. Again, I'd be all for It, If we don't need to kill humans en-masse to grant our wish
then we may as well spare them. If we have to though-

Fuck em.
>>
>>3614373
If the Gods used it to return to power they would have enough power to just incarnate us themselves.
>>
>>3614387
But would they want to?
>>
>>3614385
>Shirou
No, anon. I'm talking about the Servant who didn't incarnate but has been sustained far beyond the war anyway.
And even in Shirou's case, he's alive, isn't he? The claim was that Alberich is guaranteed to die if he doesn't incarnate, and that's just plain false.

>>3614387
And who says they would care to do so?
>>
>>3614387 (You)
>"Don't worry guys, I'll just use my sword to send the grail away!"
>seconds later massive earthquakes, tornados and tsunamis start to occur, fissures rip the earth asunder and magical beasts start appearing from nothing
>"I think something may have gone wrong."
>>3614386
Emiya is one you should never take advice from when it comes to magecraft.
He's a sword.
>>3614391
They've already called us their son and given us miracles. Why wouldn't they?
>>
I want to know where that anon was going with the question about the make and model of Vaisset's car.
>>
>>3614412
Yeah, the existence of Rider for 15 years after the war passed basically proves that we don't NEED to incarnate, but damn if it wouldn't be nice.
I mean, we either take the grail to IN space or Manjew will attempt to kill the entirety of humanity along with incarnating us.
I'll take our chances with Number Space.
>>
>>3614413
Okay true enough, but do you think he came up with that conclusion himself, or do you think somebody else more Informed gave him that Information.
>>
>>3614412
>>3614424
Remember that Rider can only be sustained the way she is because Sakura is an absurd mystic power plant.
In UBW Good End, Saber survived but was reduced to a basic human power level.
>>
>>3614423

Just wondering how much it'd help increase Riding
>>
>>3614424
How about this- If the gods directly ask us to do It, we don't do It. If It's part of their master plan, we deny them. If they have no opinion on the matter, we risk trying It.

I don't want to end up shafted as the pawn for some nigh-dead gods to return to power when I suspect they won't be grateful for It.
>>
>>3614428
He was unaware of the war until he saw us.
He'd still be opposed to it even if there is no Manjew, but if the grail isn't going to overflow with limitless evil there's no reason for him to try and stop a wish.
They would need to examine the grail anyway, and I doubt they have yet.
Regardless, in this timeline Rin and Waver have the grail deconstructed totally iirc.
This grail is a new grail or some major bullshit is going on.
>>
>>3614434
Thank you for the Information and context. So then, without Incarnation we'll just become a nobody, a nothing with comparatively little to separate us from an average human. Will Alberich accept that outcome?

(Pride) Says no.
>>
>>3614450
>Returning to near-human status
Unimaginable.
>>
1000th post for unlimited power, knowledge, and Circe and Adelheid
>>
>>3614463
Absolutely based.

But yeah, I think that the Fuyuki Grail would likely have been deconstructed in the past 15 years. Nasu mentioned something like that at one point in an interview iirc.
Angra shouldn't really be a problem.
I hope.
>>
>>3614413
>called us their son
Gods and their children rarely have good relationships. The entire Greek creation myth is about parents fucking over their children generation after generation to stay in power.
>given us miracles
We stole miracles from Rider, and once the gods are back in the real world, the IN realm won't be necessary anymore, potentially obliterating our source of power. What more use would an uppity, disobedient construct be to them?

>>3614434
It's still possible. If we don't incarnate, we'll just need to either find or build a power plant of our own. It won't be easy, but it can be done.

>>3614424
Manjew probably isn't in this grail, so that shouldn't be a problem.
>>
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>>3614463
>unlimited circe and adelheid
>>
>>3614482
>find or build a power plant of our own
Tell me, ID, what do you think of orphans?
>>
>>3614482
>>3614480
Fantastic, so then there won't be any problems!

Wait, except that wouldn't make for as Interesting of a story. It can't be that easy. I'll believe the manjew Isn't lurking ready to pounce on humanity when we've got the wish and significant time has passed without any apocalyptic fuckery.

Things just never are that easy. A grail war never just 'is' a grail war. It's always more. Always.
>>
>>3614482
Alternatively they grant us the status of Wedge of Heaven for being best son.
Gods are rather fickle.
Lot of Gods hate Demigods because GodPolitics and GodInfidelity though.
>>
>>3614506
This grail war is already fucked
D o u b l e S a b e r
And some asshole sacrificed an extra grail war just to empower his son(?)
>>
>>3614506
Mostly due to an Eizenbern or some old bug fucker, maybe both.
>>
>>3614506
>inb4 it's the Beast of 666
>>
>>3614516
Is it reeeeeally fucked when Caster simply sacrificed himself to create a Saber? It seems less game breaking than Medea summoning a fictional hero as her own Servant.
>>
>>3614516
You know its a shame we could not talk to the other servants and suggest introducing themselves as Saber to Artoria. Just to make her mad and think this grail war is just "Oops, All Sabers!"
>>
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>>3614542
>Caster creates an Artificial Grail War, summoning 8 Servants and 1050 people to die along with a single hero candidate
>within the Akeldama things go fairly normally despite the immense death rate
>Extra Saber is a living person just like True Saber
>there's a faction with a servant from the last war planning to intervene
>possibly two more servants lurking about if they escaped Akeldama
It's not looking good, anon.
>>
>>3614495
>Brotomine will never feed you a strict diet of orphan tears
Why even live?

>>3614542
Don't forget 1046 humans that he kidnapped and 5 Heroic Spirits that he conned into joining his HGW.
>>
>>3614552
>Oops! All Sabers!
>Saber spends the entirety of the war worried because there's a high chance she'll have to fight a Knight of the Round Table again.
Haha.
>>
>>3614561
>5
6. Longinus too.
Who needs Brotomine when you've got your own personal Brodas living in your head.
>>
>>3614559
At this point I wonder how pissed the Father would be hearing all of this.
>>
>>3614588
Poor Antaglio
>I've heard the rumors. Fifteen years ago my predecessor completely perverted the Holy Grail War to his own ends. That's why I've come, straight from Rome, to make sure everything goes properly. Magi, I want a clean, straightforward Grail War fought here!
...
..
.
>You know what? You deserved Kotomine. This is unbelievable.
>>
>>3614620
Nobody deserves Kirei.
To this day I have a hard time fathoming Kirei somehow managing to get married and have a child.
Kiritsugu needed a waifu to be created for him and he's much less autistic than Kirei.
>Kirei cried when his wife died
>because he was sad he didn't get to kill her himself
>>
>>3614665
That whole flashback was incredible. Such a great scene.
>>
>>3614620
Great I am imagining him saying

>"Just do whatever, I don't care anymore. Y'all need Jesus."
>>
>>3614674
Oh right, there's one thing that'll really upset the organiser
Caster was fuckin' JUDAS ISCARIOT.
>>
>>3614684
He doesn't need to know that.
>>
>>3614665
Wait, I knew Kirei got married, but they had a child?

WHERE IS IT. WHERE IS. HIS. SPAWN.
>>
>>3614691
Haven't you read Hollow Ataraxia?
>>
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>>3614691
Don't insult Caren like that please.
>>
>>3614691
Caren is around somewhere

>tfw you won't be manjew and fugging kirei's daughter
>>
>>3614689
Oh he totally needs to know that.
>>
>>3614691
>>3614707
In the Fuyuki Church, where else? She took over after her dad died.
>>
>>3614716
>"Hey can my Master get a bonus command spell? I did sorta kill Judas for you."
>>
>>3614736
>inb4 "No, he didn't"
>>
>>3614736
We should open with that if we talk to him. Just to see his reaction.
>>
Do you folks remember when Shirou learns Saber's true name in Heaven's Feel?
>>
>>3614774

Yes. And?
>>
>>3614784
What day was it? I'm asking if you remember when it happened.
>>
>>3614788

Uhhhh....shit I don't remember. I wanna say it was on Friday? Not sure at all
>>
"Very well," you say. "I'll tell you about what happened the night after I visited you last, and why the Master of Saber is not the same person he was then."

"So you've already lost your Master, and found a replacement," Rider says with an odd half-smile. You ignore the provocation in her choice of words.

"That's correct," you say. "My first master was Miss Ayaka's older brother, Jean-Pierre. He and I traveled on Friday night to a place downtown where his familiars had observed a strange phenomenon the night before. That phenomenon was a mysterious outbreak of bad luck, simultaneously affecting everyone in the area. We suspected it was the work of a Master or Servant, and went to investigate."

"And the enemies were too strong for you," says Emiya gravely, with sympathy in his eyes.

"We were defeated, yes," you confess. "The enemy Master was a magus my Master recognized as William Harris, a man they call 'The Second Magus Killer' in the Mages' Association, or so I'm told. He and his Servant were able to separate me from my Master, and while I was unable to help, Harris killed him. Then he and his Servant retreated, leaving me to fade away. It was by a scheme of Jean-Pierre's that Miss Ayaka was able to inherit his command spells."

At the reference to her brother's death, Ayaka squeezes your hand under the table, though she doesn't let the emotion show outwardly. Conversely, a shadow passes over Emiya's face; a dark expression you haven't seen from him before, some strange combination of anger and sadness. At that moment, though, his wife returns with a tray of tea and bowl of mandarins, and Emiya's expression returns his normal good cheer at the sight of her.

"I'm sorry to make you wait," she says, "but here it is."

"Thank you. Now, as I was saying, I don't know what sort of techniques Harris used," you continue, "so I can tell you very little about how to deal with him. His Servant, however, is quite a different matter. I must confess that she overwhelmed me in direct combat. That other Saber." As you speak, your voice fills unintentionally with rage. Just thinking of her is enough to make your blood boil. The way she humiliated you and left you to die!

"She is an armor-clad knight," you say, the hand not in Ayaka's clenching as you speak, "but of small stature. She appears to be a young blonde girl, and quite slender, so I surmise that the majority of her strength must come from some magical empowerment. It is that power which makes her such a fearsome opponent. Despite her size, she possesses incredible speed and strength, surpassing almost all of the Servants I have previously faced. Also dangerous is her sword, which is invisible. I was only able to surmise that she is a Saber by carefully analyzing its dimensions from her attacks. The weapon is a two-handed longsword, with a blade approximately 90 centimeters in length."
>>
The people around the table all display varying degrees of surprise at your description. Emiya has gone white. Sakura has her hand over her mouth, covering a shocked expression. Rider's eyes are narrowed in an anger not dissimilar to your own, as if remembering an old grudge. After a few moments of shocked silence, Emiya finally manages to speak.

"This is very bad," he says quietly. "That Saber you're talking about: I know her. She was the same Saber who fought as my Servant in the Fifth Holy Grail War, fifteen years ago. To think, she'd wind up being summoned again by someone using my father's moniker... It's ridiculous."

"Then you know how powerful she is," you reply. "Perhaps you know her weakness also. Well, Emiya-san? What is the best way to defeat that girl?"

Emiya shakes his head. "Saber isn't a Servant with an easily exploitable weak point. The only way to defeat her would be to overwhelm her in direct combat or to cut off her supply of energy. From your story, neither will be something done easily in this War."

"You rate her too highly, Shirou," Rider cuts in. "If it comes to it, we could defeat her the same way she was brought down fifteen years ago."

"And how was that done?" you ask.

Rider gives you a cold look, and doesn't deign to answer. Emiya, noting her hostility, just says, "It was a complicated plan. We can talk more about that if we end up needing to fight her."

>[ ] Pursue the topic of Saber further (Write in details)

>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met.

>[ ] Raise another subject (Write in)
>>
>>3614845
>>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met


Lets not push this right now but it seems like Medusa would be down for taking her down.
>>
>>3614845
>>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met.
Easy come easy go. No need to push so early. At least they're willing to consider the possibility of having to fight her.
>>
>>3614845

>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met.
>[ ] Raise another subject: If what you say is true in that I must be able to overwhelm her in direct combat, then training with you and Rider would be necessary. You know more of her than I do, and I can gauge with as much mystical energy you have: I believe that you would be great to spar with. Rider as well.
>>
>>3614845
>>3614857
>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met.

Let's raise the sparring subject a little bit later. Rider would be too eager to call us out on trying to get an easy kill on an opponent, since she's so wary of us.
>>
>>3614902

Ehhhh fair enough when you put it like that.

Now in the mean time as Sweets makes the post. How about some more Skill/NP sync discussion in regards to other Servants for the fun of it all
>>
>>3614920
Hmm...

As In, what we could do In conjunction with the Emiya group, or what we might want to take from defeated servants?
>>
>>3614926

Well the former would be a good thing to discuss. But I was thinking of it more as, when faced with a certain Servant. Say Arunja, Karna or Solomon what'd be some things that we'd take from them that'd sync to ourselves well?

I can see Ars Almadel Solomadis acting as a greater upgrade to Numberblasts
>>
You know we should actually learn Medusa's name.
>>
>>3614920
Continuing from that "lets kill the Emiyas" discussion earlier, does anything Medusa has appeal to us? Aside from IA I don't like her lineup.
>>
>>3614937
Solomon's Clairvoyance would be absolutely broken and wonderful to absorb.

Dunno about Karna or Arunja.
>>
>>3614940
The Mystic eyes or her riding skill could be useful.
>>
>>3614940
Monsterous Strength? Think about It, If the clause that It turns us Into an avenger still *somehow* works we could simply benefit from Avenger class abilities.

If that doesn't work, her mystic eyes are absolute gold. Have an energy rating of B or lower? Don't look at us, or you'll regret It. Oh, and just try fighting us without looking at us, see how that goes.

Alternatively, Blood Fort Andromeda. With Caster In our head, we might be able to use It even more effectively than Rider could with some tinkering and practice.
>>
>>3614902
I don't see how that's a concern. They don't know about our ability to absorb defeated servants so killing one of them wouldn't help us in their eyes when we can just wait until they attack one of our enemies. Either they die and we have saved us a fight or our enemies die and we have saved us a fight.
>>
>>3614948
Riding is just such a.... underwhelming use of power. I don't know how well the eyes would take.

Physical stats or Mind's Eye up first? I prefer the latter, but am open to debate.
>>
Wait why are we thinking of the"Kill the Emiya family" route? That seems like three to four unneeded really strong enemies.
>>
>>3614970
But that's also three to four big powerups. Mhmmm, mystic energy, breads.....
>>
>>3614977
Ah, but think of the drama if you wait. Who are you going to ask how many breads he's eaten, if not Shirou?
>>
>>3614970
Ultimately they stand in our way of winning the war with them wanting to dismantel it. So at some point we will have to backstab them.
How and when we do that is a bit in the air, but the only way to not kill them is somehow tricking them at the last moment and that seems dangerous in how we don't control them, so they might do something unexpected at the last second and cost us our wish.
>>
>>3614977
Okay lets see

>Kill Sakura
Shirou would go insane and do anything to make sure we were dead, same with Medusa. Rin would be on our ass too.

>Kill Shirou
Sakura is literally causing the entirety of Tokyo to be engulfed in flames and make sure she would be the one that eats you. Rin would also do all in her power to kill you which at this point would be a lot. Medusa would be super down to kill you.

>Kill Medusa
Shirou and Sakura team up in the near mental state as above to make sure you die. Rin would also come after our head with gusto.

>Kill Rin
Same as above but replace Rin with Medusa.

Pretty much if we kill one the others will get a power boost.
>>
>>3614961
Physical stats. Here's my argument.

I would think It likely that we could upgrade at least two stats In *some* capacity were we to designate the full power of a servant towards such a thing.

Here's what would be most Important. Agility, and Mana parameter. Agility Is the most obvious, If we outspeed our opponent, we have a significant melee advantage, or at least we can keep up with the faster servants without trouble. We can retreat faster If need be, dodge arrows and generally react quicker. It's extremely useful to be very fast.

Mana. Mana Is used for pumping Into noble phantasms right? In an extreme situation, pumping just that much more Into a phantasm could make or break. It's how Archer lived through Gae-Bolg's attack right?

Furthermore, Alberich Is a magus. He has circuts, and lots of them. Having more power to put Into our craft lessens the strain, opens up opportunities, Increases the potential that such non phastasm attacks could harm a servant, Increase the effectiveness of our shield form we saw we could obtain previously, and so on. And to just top It off, Rider. Rider can't cuck us with petrification If we're just a rank higher. We can kill her comparitively easily at that point, and considering her Incredible animosity and likelihood of fighting her, that seems damn useful.

Minds Eye? Well, I'm of the suspicion It will raise somewhat slowly as we go through more battles. That said, after an upgrade or two It would be a very potent addition to Increase It a rank or two. Increase our swordsmanship and analytical ability would be very useful with a strong base.
>>
>>3614992
You are forgetting a lot here.
First if we kill someone they might get a powerboost, but so do we.
Second we can kill more than one in one strike when we plan this and so we have killed two of our enemies before they can even realize the danger.
And lastly Rin is not even guaranteed to find out who did this unless we let someone escape which I at least would not plan on and only Rider has the mobility to escape here.
>>
>>3614992
>If we kill one, they all want us dead
>If we kill another, they also want us dead

So what you're saying Is... be thorough. Rider already wants to kill us, but the whole Emiya gang gunning for our ass Is a scary thing. Let's make sure and off at least two In one go, shall we?
>>
>>3614845
>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met.
Rider pls stop bullying us
>>
>>3614995
Mana isn't a stat I'd really paid much mind to, and you do present a good argument for it. And I scummed through thread three and found reasonable support that Magical Energy is lumped in with the rest of the upgradeable physical stats, so perhaps I'll go for that next time around.
>>
>>3614845

>[ ] Change the subject and ask about Emiya's experience in the Grail War since you last met.
>[ ] Raise another subject: If what you say is true in that I must be able to overwhelm her in direct combat, then training with you and Rider would be necessary. You know more of her than I do, and I can gauge with as much mystical energy you have: I believe that you would be great to spar with. Rider as well.
>>
>>3615020
You and I both know that isn't likely, anon.
>>
>>3615014
>>3615018
This "plan" is fucking stupid and not even really in character considering Yumigawa's actions towards Truvi, who was technically an enemy. Fucking anti-canon fags.
We'd have to properly fuck up to make an enemy of them if the grail isn't corrupted. The power boost likely won't be as significant if we can directly use it at all.
Ayaka would be disgusted at our actions and it's unlikely she'd agree to this heartless Kirei tier bullshit
.
You then have a very difficult job trying to explain why we shouldn't do the same to Lily's servants or even Lily if we don't know about her being the vessel.

Honestly. I'm prepared to stop them if they directly become a threat, but planning to betray them simply because of knowledge Alberich couldn't possibly have is the real metagame.
Regardless, Sakura's magic is still super effective on servants
Shirou could beat us in any number of ways
Rider mystic eyes us and kills us
Rin jewel swords.
Alberich has never been the sort to betray his allies and I'd rather he didn't have "MORE POWER." as his excuse to start.
>>
>>3615056
Alright, but have you considered MORE POWER?
>>
>>3615056
Hmm yes, yes very nice anon. HOWEVER
>>
>>3615056
The plan isn't stupid and considering that once all other servants were eliminated we would have probably backstabbed Lancer your idea of how we treated Truvi is questionable at best.
The idea that they will just decide to not destroy the grail because it isn't corrupted needs them to know that and they aren't on the best terms with the Einzberns nor do I think they are all that rational with their experiences of the last grail war.
And I'm curious what you mean with metagame since they did literally tell us that they planned to stop the grail war and we can absolutely feel how powerful they all are.
>>
>>3615065
Here have some objective truth.
DIOposting might be fun but as a villain his motivations are trash.
Regardless, we're more a Kars than a Dio now.
>>
>>3615074
>Villains whose motives are a mystery and seem almost insane at times
Hey, what's Shirou doing on that list?
>>
>>3615073
It's possible we would have betrayed Lancer and Truvi, but as that course of action never occurred we can't say for certain.
And plotting to betray them after using them just feels OOC and metagamey.
We don't even know why they want the war stopped.
>>
>>3615082
This is what he gets for not going for the Illya route.
>>
>>3615074
Honestly, what a terrible graphic. Kira great tier? Diavolo mid tier? Kars meh tier? None of those make real sense based on the descriptions of the tiers. Only Pucci and Valentine belong seriously in their slots. Also, who gives a fuck about motivations being trash? Besides, Alberich isn't a villain, he's the protagonist of this epic!


>>3615089
>Plotting fees OOC and metagamey
In what way?
>>
>>3615089
I really question if you know what metagame even means because nothing you said actually qualifies for it.
Also saying it is ooc is very much your own interpretation.
And yes we don't really know why they want it stopped and we can find out if we want, but ultimately their goal as they stated is in opposition to ours.
>>
>>3615095
Because you're relying on meta knowledge to make all of your plots. We have no idea how opposed they all are to the war and killing them all after treating them as allies just seems OOC for Alberich.
Alberich has never betrayed an ally before.
Do you want to taint our legend's beginning with the stain of treachery?
Also
>Alberich isn't the villain
>Neutral Evil
Ever heard of a villain protagonist? That's Alberich.
At least until an alignment shift.
>>
>>3615112
If you want to kill the Emiyas for "muh power ritual", then we would be better off opposing them from the start.
Betrayal always looks bad on your record as a hero.
>>
>>3615112
No I don't. They literally stated that they want it stopped and we did not really treat them as allies. We are considering them as resources to use at the moment.
Hell the fact we seriously considered not even going to them just before shows how we don't really consider them allies.
>>
>>3615112
If you're worried about betraying "allies," recall this line from the update earlier today:
>It won't be long before you have to play the part of a diplomat, manipulating Emiya and his wife into playing the role you desire for them in your War
I tried to make Alberich's attitude towards the Emiya family clear here.
>>
>>3615112
>"The last two Grail Wars," Shirou continues, "were waged to build up the energy Angra Manyu needed to come into the world. My father, Emiya Kiritsugu, stopped the Fourth Grail War, and I worked together with other Masters to stop the Fifth. I can't guess why the Einzberns would want to do this again, but we'll just have to put an end to it this time. Now that you understand the true danger of the Holy Grail, I'm sure we can count on you as well, Saber."

>>Hero
>a person who, in the opinion of others, has special achievements, abilities, or personal qualities and is regarded as a role model or ideal
>the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.

>>Classical Mythology
>a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
>(in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
>(in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

>>Villain
>a >>3615095
character in a story or play who opposes the hero
>a deliberate scoundrel or criminal
>>
>>3614937
Solomon can't be summoned anymore after Roman used Ars Nova because his Heroic Spirit doesn't exist.
If we inexplicably manage to kill Karna or Arjuna, we're obviously taking VS or Pashupata if possible.
>>3614956
How would Blood Fort Andromeda work for us?
Maybe a Bounded Field that sucks the magical energy out of everyone else inside and fabricates Imaginary Elements out of it.
>>
>>3615120
>thinking Alberich can resist not becoming their ally after spending enough time near them
These assholes are infectiously good natured.
Besides, take Truvi as an example for a second, even though her value as an ally had vanished and keeping her around was becoming a pain, Alberich still did all in his power to maintain the alliance.
It's like the one principle he has.
>>
>>3615127

Well if not Solomon, who'd be a good Caster to take a good power bite from?

And now writing this that Azazel would be perfect to add onto HGS
>>
>>3615131
Keeping Truvi around was a minor inconvenience and at that point she was in no way a threat to his goal of winning the war. If the Emiyas were just a minor inconvenience that we can savely ignore then I wouldn't be concerned. But they are an active threat to our goals.

And quite frankly it's not that hard not to become their ally when you are actively manipulating them and plan to dispose of them before they become a threat. Especially since Rider is doing her best to antagonize us.
>>
>>3615126
Yes but their opposition to the war is based on the belief that man jew is lurking.
Should that not be the case then they can't really oppose us for trying to incarnate with the grail.
And if it is the case we're sort of already absolutely fucked considering a Manjew wish wouldn't just kill Tokyo, but almost the entire human population, if Gil is to be trusted.
>>
>>3615143
But of course, neither we nor they know IC or OOC if the angry man is about or not. Therefore, we must prepare for and assume that they will be acting to stop the war and dismantle the grail- and by proxy, acting to end Alberich's existence. Say what you will about his pride and aspirations to higher glories, but Alberich's will for survival has been a consistent character trait aside from that one time we tried to duel Adelheid.
>>
>>3615132
Caster Gil.
Give me Sha Naqba Imuru, asshole.
>>
>>3615143
They assume Angra is in the grail, we are pretty sure he isn't. The only way to confirm or deny would be the Einzbern and even if meeting between Einzberns and Emiyas wouldn't explode the Emiyas would have to trust their word.
And even if Angra is in their then others have already discussed how we can still get our wish.
>>
>>3615150
Sure but if there isn't a big ol fuck you stored in the grail we might be able to convince them to just leave the grail war.
And if there is a false god of evil swimming in our magic cup then we're sort of fucked and there's no point in betraying them.

I'd only be ok with betraying them if the grail was usable yet they still want to destroy it.

Deciding out of nowhere to betray them simply because a lust for power doesn't sit well with me.
>>
>>3615157
Yeah, we can work with them all the way to the very end and go to IN space with the grail. Not a single betrayal needed!
>>
>>3615161
Yeah, nice now convince them to risk the world on us being right about that. Because that working is not guaranteed.
We think it has a good chance, but ultimately we are gambling with everyone's lives.
>>
>>3615158
>simply because a lust for power
I've been meming it as such, but as I've tried to indicate there are very practical reasons to "betray" them. The truth of the matter is that so long as the Emiya clan is involved, they will exist as a rogue element in the system and as a threat to Alberich's life and victory. They owe Alberich nothing (a notable difference as compared to our Akeldama crew, who each owed Alberich their lives in some way. I'd almost describe the Akeldama team as "subjects" rather than allies), and until convinced otherwise will from now on act with the ultimate goal of stopping the war and dismantling the grail in mind.
>>
>>3615166
You think they would be opposed to throwing the entire grail into a world where there is nobody it could harm?
And I think that the Magus of the group would be able to say whether or not that would work.
It's got just as high a chance of working as Shirou blowing up trying to Excalibur the damn thing.
>>
>>3615169
>dismantling the grail
We can just IN it though.
It's the perfect way to "get rid" of the grail and still get our wish.
>>
>>3615171
You are throwing a wish granting device with a n evil god in it into the world of gods. Yes, the results are pretty unpredicable and I really doubt the Magus of the group has any real experience with something like that.
For all we know Angra could corrupt Alberich and use him to escape.
As for just as likely to work as destroying the grail? Well one of those was already proven to work the other is a wildcard.
>>
>>3615174
I have my doubts with regards to that plan anon. It's such a big if as to not even factor into my ideas whatsoever right now. Any other magic bullets you have to hawk?
>>
>>3615158
>And if there is a false god of evil swimming in our magic cup then we're sort of fucked and there's no point in betraying them.
>I'd only be ok with betraying them if the grail was usable yet they still want to destroy it.
This is what we should do.
Ideally we'd all have a chat with the Einzberns to make sure the Grail wasn't evil and then decide, but there's no chance of that happening.
>>
>>3615177
>manjew
>a real god
Haha
Nah.
He's some shmuck that got sacrificed.
Also being corrupted by Angra (by wish or mud) is a possibility even if we don't IN realm the grail so what's your point?
At least if we get corrupted in IN space there's a slim chance a God can uncorrupt us.
>>
>>3615182
If the grail goes of an fulfills his wish of turning him into a god then yes he would be a god.
And being corrupted is not a certainty. The point here is that Alberich values his life in relation to the world a lot more than the Emiyas. Which means he's a lot more willing to take a risk. While the Emiyas would rather heavily disagree on taking a chance with everyone's lives for him.
That's even ignoring how they might not be entirely rational after what they have already been through in relation to the grail war and Angra.
>>
>>3615179
Why in the name of fuck are you opposed to something that by default can only go less wrong than just allowing the grail to ruin the entire planet?
>>
>>3615188
>Why the fuck are you opposed to
something that I'm guessing we can do, that might have terrible consequences, and which I assume will work. Why do you care that this "plan", better referred to as an idea, has no basis in reality other than Alberich's links to the realm of Imaginary Numbers (which is the realm of the Gods btw, not his personal laboratory)
Also, I don't really care about the planet.
>>
>>3615187
Ok let's see
>Mainyu in Grail
>attempt to make wish
>near entirety of humanity are wiped out.
Or
>take grail to Number Space
>make wish
>something might happen but the wish can't be used to kill humanity
Or
>no Angra
>no problem
>>
>>3615193
Also, why do you care so much about humanity? It's just collateral at worst anon.
>>
>>3615193
Or
>Mainyu in Grail
>The Emiyas disagree with making a wish (even in Number Space) and risking anything instead preferring to use the safe and proven to work method.
or
>Grail is clean.
>The Emiyas don't believe us and insist on destroying it.
>>
>>3615192
>I don't really care about the planet
???????
What the fuck is this stupid line of thought?
You think the unknown, possibly non-existent consequences of bringing Angra to IN-Space (which I should say includes the reverse side of the world, where Sieg rendered the grail unable to affect humans.) Would be worse than killing all of humanity???
>>
>>3615195
>the safe and proven method.
...
Getting Illya to kill herself to shut it down?
>>
>>3615194
Anon I'm not just talking about one city.
I'm talking about the world here.
Why do you think turning the world into a lifeless hellscape would benefit Alberich.
>>
>>3615197
Would be on method. Or destroy the grail before the wish takes place somewhere where you don't mind the grail mud spilling out.
In the end that's a lot safer than gambling on the fact that Angra can't escape Imaginary Space or the wish won't react differently.
>>
>>3615196
>>3615201

I think you have a bullshit concept which you sincerely believe will solve all of our problems and lead to the good end of this route. This concept's benefits are immaterial to Alberich, and it risks the one thing which should immediately matter to him- getting his wish and not fading into aether. There is no proof or background that it is even doable. It is a pie-in-the-sky answer to a question which hasn't even been asked yet.
>>
>>3615202
Anon.
We're in Tokyo, one of the most densely populated areas on the planet.
There's no place where it wouldn't lead to a picrelated.
Why are you assuming Mainyu could escape?
Why are you assuming the wish would react differently.
You see, you've got an awful lot of problems you keep making, yet not one solution.
>>
>>3615207
AND YOU HAVE NO FUCKING SOLUTION.
We know we can use our sword to open rifts and we know Mainyu will twist any wish to doing what he does best, killing humans.
If a grail in the reverse side of the world can't affect humanity with the thjrd magic, the same should be true of Manjew in IN space.
>>
>>3615212
Tokyo is still a lot better than the world and I don't think it's impossible to relocate the grail or evacuate a big part of it.
Because Angra has a chance to corrupt Alberich who can escape, because we don't know the complete powers of Angra at all.
And the wish might react differently because the wish is to make him all the world's evil not all the imaginary spaces evil, so ultimately it could decide Angra needs a way to reach the world to actually be their evil.

And you are making an awful lot of assumptions about how we can convince the Emiyas and how they would react.
>>
>>3615212
>You see, you've got an awful lot of problems you keep making, yet not one solution.
And here is a solution. Just make sure their agreement is not necessary and go ahead with your wish in Imaginary space or not. It's a risk, but one we are willing to make.
>>
"Very well then," you say. "Now you know the story of my first battle of the Holy Grail War. What about yourself? Have you made any progress towards your goal of stopping it?"

"Not much," Emiya says seriously. "Not enough. Several cases of arson in residential areas have happened in the last few days, and I thought from the timing that it was probably a Master and Servant hunting to bolster their energy supply. Rider and I went to investigate one of the burned out houses to look for traces of a Servant's presence on Friday."

"I'd heard about those homes as well," you say. "Did you discover any new information?"

"The house we looked at on Friday didn't tell us much, other than what I'd guessed already. There was magic used in the fire, but that's all. We went to another house yesterday evening, though; one burned more recently. It had actually been attacked while we were investigating the other house on Friday," Emiya says with a look of self-recriminating resentment.

"We found more to go on there. That house had more lingering magical energy, and I could learn more from it. It was a Servant, and I'd be able to recognize the same Servant's energy again if we encountered them. While we were investigating, though, it got dark. One of the Masters must have been hanging around waiting, because he attacked us as soon as the sun set."

"Who was it?" Last night; you consider the timeframe. This would have been while you were fighting Rider, which rules out both he and Archer. Emiya and his family were unaware of the other Saber, so you can be certain his foe wasn't she. This leaves the possibility of Lancer, Assassin, or Berserker; but Assassin should be unlikely to attack directly.

"Berserker," says Emiya with a bitter smile. "Berserker was the one to attack us. I didn't see his Master; the magus must've been hiding somewhere, or commanding Berserker from range somehow. Anyway, we had our hands full. As expected of the class, he was absurdly powerful. None of our attacks could even scratch him, and in the end we had to retreat."

"One to be careful of, then," you say. "What can you tell me about him? Do you have any idea of his identity?"

"He was a bare-handed fighter, wearing a black robe," Emiya says with a shrug. "It's not much to go on. Offhand I'd guess he's a hero with some kind of bodily protection from harm, but there are plenty of those throughout the world's myths."

"Interesting," you say. "All the same, it's not certain that we must identify him to triumph over Berserker. If the core of his Noble Phantasm is protection, I ought to be able to defeat him. My Noble Phantasm is specialized in cutting through heavy defenses. But given your altruistic motives, I imagine that you prioritize finding the Servant responsible for this spate of arson. Is that correct?"
>>
"Of course! It's only natural to stop someone who's indiscriminately attacking ordinary people as quickly as you can," Emiya declares, clenching a fist in a pose of righteous conviction. "I just wish we had some way of tracking them down."

"I may be able to help with that," Ayaka interjects. "You said there was more of that Servant's magical energy in the ruins you investigated last night, right? If we can find a particular object that has a very concentrated amount of that energy clinging to it, I can use one of my family's arts to trace it and locate the Servant." This takes you by surprise. Ayaka hadn't mentioned a tracking spell when the two of you were discussing what magic she new, had she? You'll need to find some time to have another talk with her about the subject of her abilities.

"Good," Emiya says. "Then we have to go back there tonight. You two aren't against that, are you?"

"No, but why tonight?" you ask. "We could return to that ruin now and not face the chance of an attack by an enemy Master."

"We have plans this evening," Sakura answers. "Senpai can't go out at the drop of a hat, because Nee-san is arriving from London for a visit tonight."

"Right," Emiya says, looking faintly embarrassed. "Sorry to make you wait after I suggested it, but it's like Sakura said. Her sister is coming here for a visit, and we have to be here to receive her. She should be arriving pretty soon, actually. Why don't you two stay for dinner, and then we'll search for the enemy Servant after that?"

>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.

>[ ] Decline Emiya's invitation.
>>
>>3615227
>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.
Sure, why not spook Rin?
We'll want to share Vaisset's notes on Elemental Synthesis with her as well, if we the time afterward to get them from his study and she's willing to see them.
>>
>>3615221
>paragraph made of assumptions about Angra, IN space, the wish and the grail
>"you are making lots of assumptions."
For fucks sake anon, at least be consistent.
The Emiyas would hopefully be put in a situation where it's us "sacrificing" ourselves in order to take the grail with us.
I notice you still have no way to get us incarnated should the grail be corrupted though.

If we want to exist past the war without incarnation we'd have to contract with either Sakura, who you want to kill, or Lily, who might also die very young.
>>
>>3615227
>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.
Sure, meeting Rin will be amusing.
>>
>>3615227

>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.

"Why hello there! My name is Alberich von Einzbern, what's your's?"
>>
>>3615221
>the wish might react differently because the wish is to make him all the world's evil not all the imaginary spaces evil
Anon, that wish was already granted when Avenger entered the Grail after the third war.
And "world" here doesn't refer to Gaia.
It means he's all the evil of humanity in a single entity.
>>
>>3615236
Alberich von Einzbern has a very nice ring to it, actually.
>>
>>3615229
No, I'm not making any assumptions. I'm pointing out how your assumption of there being no risk with making a wish in Number Space is unsubstantiated and will be very hard to use to convince someone especially when being wrong about it has a chance to kill the world.

And my solution to a corrupted grail would be to risk it with a wish.
>>
>>3615239
Perfect for a certain princess' older brother.
>>
>>3615244
That's not a solution!
That's not a solution at aaaaaalllllll!
That's just not making a solution and ruining everything!
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS A GOOD IDEA.
>>
>>3615245
I guess that's the reason why picking a second name in the car would have been a bad thing.
>>
>>3615237
>>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.
No reason not to. I can see.
>>3615248
And your solution is to ...
Risk everything on being able to convince them and after that do the same thing I'm saying we should do. Just having convinced ourselves that there is no risk.
>>
>>3615255
>No reason not to.
Just the chance to do something else with the next few hours. You folks had wanted to go get Vaisset's car, for example.
>>
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>>3615255
Anon, how is risking everything in any way worse than setting everything on fire?
And no, I'm not suggesting to do the same thing at all so you can cease that.
Mainyu can't affect humans where there aren't any humans.
This is simple stuff.
>>
>>3615266
Because setting a city on fire is a lot less worse than letting Angra loose on humanity.
You are literally saying in case of corruption we should take it to Imaginary space and use its wish.
And your assumption is that taking it to imaginary space makes it a 100% safe when we use a wish granting device. That's not too well understood in its working in a space that magi don't have the best grasp of either.
And yes Angra escaping from Imaginary space is not unthinkable. The chance would be small, but that's your estimation not the Emiyas who have a lot to lose and not much to win from us making a wish.
>>
>>3615271
Anon anon anon.
I've repeated this about 5 fucking times now, but a wish from the corrupted grail is a danger to humanity as long as it is in the physical world, not merely a city.
The Fuyuki Fire was just some spillage from a grail where no wish was completed.
Fucking hell.
>>
Back just in time to vote. Cool.
>>3615227
>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.
Sounds fun.

So we can assume that Berserker is martial artist related to fire, have some form of super protection and probably have madness in his legend? Shame they did not tell us about techniques and fighting style Berserker used.
>>
>>3615227
>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation
>>
>>3615273
Do your even read what I write?
Because I never said you wanted to make the wish in normal space.
I said your idea that making a wish in imaginary space being safe and the emiyas sharing that idea is an unproven assumption.
It would be safer to destroy the grail without making a wish at all, which would be a fail condition for us.
>>
>>3615279
I have been reading what you've been typing, but at this point it's becoming a jumbled word salad where you just keep trying to repeat the same thing.
You're also wrong about desyroying it being safe.
It was the opposite of what I'd call "safe" when evil flames tore through a section of Fuyuki because Kerry tried to "safely" destroy it.
The only safe way they know of is having somebody like Illya sacrifice herself to close it.
Additionally, the only one who could do it would be Shirou tracing Excalibur Image and exploding.
Rider can't exactly charge at the corrupting mud.
The IN space plan provides them a way out.
>>
>>3615281
Destroying it is safe in that your evil flames are a known consequence. It destroys at worst the city, it doesn't risk the world.
Having someone like Ilya close the grail would be a better solution, but that also prevents a wish.
The In Space plan is rolling the dice. Yes there is a chance that this provides the best outcome, but it also is making a lot of assumptions in how it will go. And if you are wrong or just can't convince the Emiyas that you are right then you are still making a wish with the risk of killing everyone. However small it may be.
The safest way would be to destroy it in Imaginary space without making a wish at all.
>>
>>3615285
>The safest way would be to destroy it in Imaginary space without making a wish at all.
Sure.
Doesn't mean we won't though.
And hell.
Give Shirou this choice
1) use powerful attack on grail and kill thousands
2) sacrifice this girl that looks just like Illya to close the grail
3) have guy with sword that can banish the grail send it away
Now which option will Shirou "why can't I save everyone" Emiya pick?
Regardless, the odds of Angra still being in the grail are infinitesimal.
>>
>>3615285
But really let's forget this. This is leading nowhere. I'm not convincing you and you are not likely at this point to convince me.
So let's just enjoy the quest and see where the votes lead us.
>>
>>3615274
My initial guess would've been Samson or Jacob but those dudes don't really have any connection to fire. We'll probably get more clues in the next thread.
>>
>>3615288
For the sole reason that you are totally incorrect about multiple things and are refusing to listen to any logic.
>>
>>3615287
>Regardless, the odds of Angra still being in the grail are infinitesimal.
That I can agree. Do we have a way to prove it to them if it is so or is this a case of you have to trust my word (despite me having an interest in the wish)?
Actually have we ourselves a way to find out besides asking the Einzbern and trusting their word?
>>
>>3615291
Seriously? You have to take a parting shot?
Great you win. You obviously have proof of how a grail behaves in imaginary space and that it is safe to make a wish there.
>>
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>>3615294
I do actually, yes.
As much as I dislike Apocrypha.
Sieg proves such.
A wish made with the grail to affect all humans cannot on the Reverse Side of the World.
The Reverse Side of the World being a part of number space.
>>
>>3615297
Sieg saves the day again.
>>
>>3615293
As for proving the grail is clear, if we've been told we can always just tell Shirou.
He might not believe us but it's enough to plant the seeds of doubt.
>>
>>3615297
>A wish made with the grail to affect all humans cannot on the Reverse Side of the World.
>The Reverse Side of the World being a part of number space.
Great, why did you not say so sooner instead of insisting that you are right? Because explaining why you think so is actually a lot more convincing than insisting it is so without saying from where you take that certainty. Not that it actually helps here.
Since that is not an argument that helps convince the Emiyas which is the concern from our side in the first place.

>>3615300
Yes, it plants doubts. But would Shirou risk being wrong when so much stands to lose? His kids being included?
Or do you plan to betray them in the end by lying about destroying it in Number Space then make a wish?
>>
>>3615302
>>A wish made with the grail to affect all humans cannot on the Reverse Side of the World.
>>The Reverse Side of the World being a part of number space.
my mistake I wanted to quote the part of Sieg and Apocrypha.
>>
>>3615302
We can likely just make the wish in number space which should be harmless.
Hopefully.
And then incarnate with it.
We could then probably open up a portal leading far away from Tokyo so they assume we died in destroying the grail.

And I did mention Sieg before, you just seemed to ignore it.
>>
>>3615262
>You folks had wanted to go get Vaisset's car, for example.
You know, I think we should decline their invitation.
>>
>>3615305
>And I did mention Sieg before, you just seemed to ignore it.
Only once (that the search function could find) and that wasn't even an answer directed at me. I hope you can excuse me for overlooking that.

And sure that is a plan I can get behind. Lie about us destroying it in Number Space then make a wish on the grail. Seems very likely to work.

That said since you were so concerned with betrayal, this would also be a betrayal of their trust, especially since Alberich does not know about Sieg, so he can't be sure that making a wish in imaginary space is safe.
>>
>>3615305
But yeah, at this point we've gone on way too long with this back and forth.
No more parting shots.
I'll still have trouble with accepting that we have to kill him and his faction if they get in our way. We can hopefully deceive them somewhat rather than kill them. No fucking way will I accept killing them just for mana though. We are better than that, that is what Judas would want.
>>
>>3615312
It might be a betrayal but it's the ideal situation. Alberich values his life too much not to try it.
And if the grail isn't corrupted everything will be peachy
>>
>>3615313
>We are better than that
Are we?
>that is what Judas would want
Undoubtedly. After all, our victory is his victory.

We really need to talk to him at some point.
>>
>>3615316
>Are we?
What sort of monster backstabs those who would call him ally just out of a lust for power?
A useless, flawed human, perhaps.
But we never really were a human.
>>
>>3615319
Though I must admit I'm not fond of Rider acting like Queen of the Deathglare with her constant looks.
Even if she has an actual Death Glare.
Maybe if we get a cool mount she'll stop her bullying.
>>
>>3615316
>>that is what Judas would want
And isn't that a nice reminder that we have to investigate Judas.
I don't trust that guy to not have left behind something that screws us over.
>>
>>3615319
>out of a lust for power
We don't want just power, we want to survive.
Just like Shirou, Alberich has people he would go a long way to protect.
>>
>>3615322
Same. Thats really rude and annoying of her to do so constantly.
>>
>>3615325
Of course, but killing Shirou just seems so wrong.
His motives are completely pure, he just wants to prevent a tragedy from repeating.
As the world's only true modern hero, should we not find his goal noble?
He's the closest thing that modern humans have to a hero.
Well, other than us.
And to do it for something so petty as for just taking some extra power?
It would leave a foul taste in my mouth.
>>3615326
I blame her sisters for bullying her for decades, obviously it's a defence mechanism.
To temporarily break Rider, have Lily jump on her.
>>
>>3615331
>As the world's only true modern hero, should we not find his goal noble?
Alberich is more a classical hero than a seigi no mikata.
Why do you think he's Neutral Evil?
>And to do it for something so petty as for just taking some extra power?
Is pretty bad, yes.
I would only push the button if they came in the way of our goal of reuniting Team Akeldama.
>>
>>3615333
I still think Alberich is finding himself.
Yes, the Yumigawa Rushorou we once were was neutral evil, but Alberich knows now that those memories he based everything off of aren't his.
And Shirou is still somebody who deserves respect from one grail war "winner" to another.
Despite only being a weak human, he really is a hero.

The only thing Alberich knows is real is his love for Circe and Adelheid.
>>
>>3615331
It is time to reveal our secret skill Psychotherapist: C++ and help Rider.
>>3615333
>Neutral Evil
Alberich is a goodboi who hasn`t done anything bad or evil. It was all either self defence or lesser evil.
>>
I wonder if we can ask Rider to say she's a Saber and met another Saber named Roland when she meets Arturia.
I just really want to screw with her and her master.
>>
>>3615227
>[ ] Decline Emiya's invitation.
No need to dink around when there are powers to research and conversations to have. We'll see them tonight.
>>
>>3615345
And a car to fetch.
>>
>>3615346
I mean not at this rate since everyone seems to be more focused on fan service.
And not even the good kind.
It's the "I clapped when I saw it." kind.
>>
>>3615337
Psychotherapist: C++
I don't know anon, how do you use psychotherapy to deal with the feelings of guilt that arise from turning into a monster and eating your two sisters that you turned into a monster to protect?

>>3615341
"Rider?!"
"I'm clearly Saber, Saber, what are you talking about? I just finished a meeting with Saber who has told me all about you, Saber, he also mentioned defeating another Saber a few days ago"
"What."
>>3615345
>not wanting to surprise Rin that somehow Shirou has somehow managed to lure another Saber to him.
>>
>>3615337
>Psychotherapist: C++
>AoG kotomine is in our core
I think you mean Incitation: EX
>>
>>3615349
Just calm your tits anon.
If we ever actually bother to fucking train using our sword, we could probably just portal from place to place rather than walk everywhere.
>>
>>3615341
At this point if we learn more about her role in last Grail War and try one up her in role of compassionate true noble knight it should rustle her a lot more since it is post-Heaven`s Feel Saber. She should be under even more of strain, having lost two Grail wars, getting mudded etc.
>>
>>3615353
That's kinda my point.
Why sit around and eat dinner with characters we have no reason to talk to or care about when we COULD be training our skills or any number of things with the time we have?

If there's a sold reason to go see Rin besides the fact that it would be "fun" then i'm all ears.
>>
>>3615356
It is networking with Emiyas to get better understanding on them, their resources and potentially find uses for them in the future. It is consistent with our decision to work with them for now.
>>
>>3615356
Rin was mentioned to be a far more talented magi than Ayaka, was she not?
Additionally, as she'll be our ally (or potential enemy, who knows) knowing her abilities will be helpful. (Because y'know, she's had 15 years to research the Jewel Sword)
She's the best person around to ask about magical theory unless Circe arrives.
>>
>>3615356
Getting more information on an unknown. She obviously knew about the grail war and most likely will get involved even if she only gets dragged into it by her sister.
And staying could give us an opportunity to spar with Rider which is better than training on our own.
>>
>>3615359
Well, not a far more talented magi than Ayaka specifically, but Ayaka is rather excellent at downplaying herself and Rin is likely a high ranking magus now
>>
>>3615360
>spar with Rider
The single issue with this plan is that Shirou will see our sword and we'll finally get to know whether or not he can copy it.
>>
>>3615364
I don't think we know about his ability and sooner or later he will see it anyway.
With a lot of luck we can get some training swords from them and don't need to use our sword at all.
>>
>>3615368
I know we don't.
Honestly, I just want to see if the asshole is capable of it.
>>
>>3615358
Valid. The more info we get the easier it would be to get into the Einzbern's good graces if we ever get to that point. It might also help us combat them ourselves in the future.

>>3615359
Most of that is metagaming bullshit, but fuck it. Valid enough.

>>3615360
You guys seem really bent on sparing with Rider. I'm not even sure how we'd gauge that conversation without looking suspect, but I guess it has its benefits. Valid.

I guess we're going to dinner then. Think of all the other things we could be doing though...
>>
>>3615364
>>3615368
They never saw our combat form, have they?
If we just show up warped in Shadow during the night without explanation they will get triggered. Just remember how Saber reacted to us upon seeing Kenótis.
>>
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Do Rin and Sakura look like this?
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>>3615372
Haha.
Oh yeah, we should probably show them that sometime.
I don't want to spook them too hard in a situation where it wouldn't be ideal.
>>3615371
It's fine, we do actually need to eat and so does Ayaka.
>>3615374
Those are clearly both Edelfelts, anon.
>>
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By the way, I worked on making other editanon's sprite look less like Li Shuwen. I don't know if I like the hair or not.
>>
>>3615382
FUCKING SLICK
>>
>>3615382
Very nice.
>>
Getting so involved with the emiya's was probably a huge mistake and i can't wait to see it blow up in our face
>>
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>>3615395
>implying having our plans blow up in our face isn't par for the course
>>
>>3615395
I'm still on the Lily train.
I don't mind deceiving the Emiyas, I just don't want to see them dead.
And the Einzbern aren't exactly possible to contact rn. They'll probably show up the next time we have a battle.
I want to protect Lily's smile.
>>
>>3615395
>>3615398
Fun part starts than Judas uses our old command spells he stole from us ordering us to kill somebody.
>>
>>3615395
Yeah, not sure why we're just blindly trusting them
>>
I should point out that if we plan to betray the Emiyas then the best time to do it would be after attacking the Einzberns and killing their Servant (if possible).
We can have them deal with the inevitable waves of homunculi while we go in and eat Otto, after which they'll be tired and easy pickings -- particularly if we can make a deal with Lancer and their Master.
I want to find Lancer and negotiate a deal, so we can take down the Emiyas quickly and then kill Lancer.

Of course, all of this is assuming they plan to dismantle the Grail even if AM is gone.
>>
>>3615435
The einzberns are possibly the best allies we could ask for in this war
>>
>>3615435
>Lancer and their Master
It is hard to predict unknown masters though.
As far as we can tell:
Master of Archer and Master of Rider (Roland) know that Rider is out.
Master of Berserker likely assumes that Rider (Medusa) is Rider of this Grail War.
Einzberns assumes we are unknowingly on their side. IC we can assume their Servant is Assassin.
We can assume that Harris is likely will play it completely straight, will actively hunt other Masters and use Saber extremely cautiously.
And we know that Emiyas will interfere as a wild card for all parties involved not matter that happens.
>>
>>3615336
Actually, Yumigawa was Lawful Neutral. It's only since the end of Akeldama that you've become NE.
>>
>>3615336
>The only thing Alberich knows is real is his love for Circe and Adelheid.
Awwwwww
>>
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>>3615514
Our love is the greatest power of change. And sign of a pure heart.
>>
>>3615538
Oh, that's a good one! I didn't see it when hunting down Circe art on Pixiv.
>>
>>3615542
Big number of asian artists abandoned pixiv about half a year ago after another major drama involving its owner or so I heard. Since they never left twitter and use to cross-promote each other all the time it is fairly good medium to use to hoard big number of asian drawings after you follow bunch of them there.
The only redeemable quality of that social platform.
>>
>>3615452
>IC we can assume their Servant is Assassin.
In character you can assume this?
>>
>>3615274
>>3615290
So I guess I didn't make this explicitly clear, but that was a mistake. The fact that Shirou says he'd recognize the energy of the Servant that's been attacking people again, but didn't mention anything about Berserker matching that energy, is meant to convey that they're two different Servants.
>>
>>3615514
The decisions that Alberich has made until were all under the impression he was somebody else, with a mindset he should no longer share.
He's still subject to change.
>>3615538
Allberich is a good boy who deserves happiness and doesn't deserve to be thrown into double grail war at the moment of his creation.
>>
>>3615568
We met mysterious Otto and Liliesviel, a Einzberns`s Master in this war, knowing that Assassin was already summoned.
We never fought Assassin in Akeldama so we have no idea about actual power kit and skills they generally possess.
And this part
>The second voice is a low whisper from Niemand, which seems to travel directly to your ear without passing through the surroundings. "Best of luck with the deception, Saber. I look forward to your performance."
I do believe that Alberich would have drawn a conclusion that Einzberns have summoned an Assassin.
>>
>>3615382
Good effort. A few notes:
First, while making the hair less messy is definitely good, I'd suggest you at least leave the leftmost forelock, as it's consistent with our portraits so far.
What I definitely have a problem with is that you narrowed the visible eye on a portrait that already has the eye quite small in relation to the face. Return that, for sure.
>>
>>3615542
How much Circe art do you have on hand anyway?
It's not like you use images in this quest much.
>>
>>3615611
>sample
Eat that Kykeon, anon.
>>
>>3615611
Not much. I found several pieces of art for her back during the early threads of Akeldama while I was using images a great deal.
Since I gave up on using art for my updates due to how much it was slowing me down, I haven't really looked for more.
>>
>>3615558
I keep hearing about how twitter is the place to find asian art, but I'm loath to use it. As a database, its usability is nil. Seems like you have to be following a bunch of artists to get anything out of it.
>>
>>3615621
What's Alberich's tier list of his "female allies" based on looks
>>
>>3615624
I'm throwing in acquaintances, but...
S-Tier: Liliesviel von Einzbern, Adelheid
A-Tier: Circe
B-Tier: Emiya Kaori, Shijou Ayaka, Munahara Kikuko, Truvietianne Edelfelt
C-Tier: Emiya Sakura, Akagata Kyouka
>>
>>3615623
I honestly don't know what people are talking about.

Are there tons of Asian artists on twitter?
Yeah.
Is it a good place to find art or artists?
No, it's not built for it and on top of that twitter, in general, is a shithole.
I'd rather sift through a booru than look for art on Twitter.
>>
>>3615624
>circe tier
Circe
>everyone else tier
Everyone else
>>
>>3615636
QM you just listed everyone we know in order of youngest to oldest looking.
>>
>>3615636
>>3615644
Hmmmmm. Really makes you think, huh?
>>
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>>3615644
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>>3615636
Predatory Charisma C++ strong.
>>3615623
Very much true and how it is. It does however have big snowball effect depending on number artists you follow. More of passive general good art sniffer than specific database.
>>
>>3615636
Based and lolicon-pilled

>>3615644
Really gets the noggin joggin, no?
>>
>>3615644
If I'd done that, Kikuko and Kaori would both be in A-Tier.
>>
>>3615670
Fine, there are a few exceptions, I guess.
But there's an obvious pattern.
>>
>>3615623
This is true because absolutely no one tags their art.
>>
>>3615670
Well if I remember right, Kikuko was rather busty wasn't she? Or was that Truv?
I remember one of them having significant knockers.
>>
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>>3615682
Whatever do you mean?
>>
>>3615689
Truvie
>>3615682
Correlation does not equal causation anon. Perhaps Alberich simply perfers Europeans?
>>
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>>3615689
Truvi was the busty one in your party. Attached is Kikuko's portrait.
>>
>>3615694
Truvi is fairly low despite being Finnish.
>>
>>3615694
Hehehe ok yeah, now I remember.
Did we ever find a picture that suited her appearance? I know we made one for dear Adelheid.

As for Alberich's lust for white bitches, he seems to get flustered by any gal with a pretty face he actually has a chance to notice.
It seems to me that old boy needs to have his guard up 24/7, lest he gets caught off guard and starts catching feelings.
>>
>>3615715
The Finns are a unique case in these matters
>>
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>>3615719
>>
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Hey guys, I figured out how we would end up looking if we for the requirements to be a fist-fighting Berserker but pretty much kept everything else the same!
>>
>>3615730
Too punkish.
Adelheid is too straightedge to go anywhere without looking at least business casual.
>>
>>3615727
>>
>>3615714
She was such a manipulative bitch. Good thing we gave her nice character development.
>>
>>3615736
But he would otherwise fit: https://youtu.be/kYrDFjwgwUs
:^)
>>
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>>3615718
Here's Adelheid's portrait.
>>
>>3615749
>She was such a manipulative bitch. Good thing we gave her nice character development.
Lel
>>
Oh, I just realized I'd forgotten two characters!
S-Tier: Liliesviel von Einzbern, Adelheid
A-Tier: Circe, Seiba
B-Tier: Emiya Kaori, Shijou Ayaka, Munahara Kikuko, Truvietianne Edelfelt
C-Tier: Emiya Sakura, Akagata Kyouka, Rider of Fuyuki

But I'll point out that these are all "passing grades" as it were. Alberich may have certain preferences, but he's not very discriminating about them.
>>
>>3615749
Ah yes.
Good ol brainwashing.
>>3615736
>tfw everyone keeps demanding you wear clothing and you never get the opportunity to show off your A-rank Conceptual Biology to everyone.
>>
>>3615751
>VA
perfection
>>
>>3615761
Speaking of which, have we even bathed?
>>
>>3615759
>Seiba in A-rank
*angry False Saber noises*
>>
>>3615759
>A-Tier: Seiba
Well then. Lets MUD her and class change into Saber Alter (Rider (Swimsuit)) and use as a personal maid.
>>
>>3615759
>A-Tier: Seibah
Delet this
>>
>>3615759
You forgot Taiga and Illya.
>>
>>3615759
I like how the old hag we haven't met doesn't even rank the chart.
>>
>>3615772
You did ask for a tier-list based on looks. Alberich may hate her, but her beauty is undeniable.

>>3615774
Crap, you're right. Here's Alberich's (hopefully) final tier list of his female acquaintances' attractiveness.

S-Tier: Liliesviel von Einzbern, Adelheid, Illyasviel von Einzbern
A-Tier: Circe, Seiba
B-Tier: Emiya Kaori, Shijou Ayaka, Munahara Kikuko, Truvietianne Edelfelt
C-Tier: Emiya Sakura, Rider of Fuyuki, Akagata Kyouka, Fujimura Taiga

>>3615779
If you haven't met her, how could Alberich rate her appearance?
>>
>>3615779
That's no way to talk about Rin, anon.
>>
>>3615781
Got me there
>>
>>3615781
>S-Tier: Liliesviel von Einzbern, Adelheid, Illyasviel von Einzbern
Powerful
>>
By the way. Although you didn't end up seeing this, cross-dressing Ogawara is B-Tier.
>>
>>3615781
Is this affection born out of memories of Yumigawa Rushurou we received?
>>
>>3615792
>>
>>3615792
>cross-dressing Ogawara is B-Tier
Now I am a bit curious which tier would Astolfo ended up in.
>>
>>3615792
Fantastic.
Our very own Astolfo.
God damn it.
>>3615794
What? All of those are people Alberich met.
>>
>>3615794
I'm not sure what you mean.
>>
>>3615802
>>3615805
I meant to say: Was Yumigawa Rushurou (Original) a closet lolicon or did our interaction during Akeldama shaped personal preference this way?
>>
>>3615810
Yes.
>>
>>3615810
Interactions during Akeldama shaped your preferences. Blame Adelheid.
Original Yumigawa Rushorou had no interests of any kind, including romantic ones.
>>
>>3615814
And what was Keiseki into?
>>
>>3615770
Now I'm not going to deny that this could be something Alberich might want to do. It's not outside the realm of his character. And, as I'm sure you've noticed, this War's Seiba is halfway to being Alter already.
All the same, if you really want to get your corrupting shadow on, you'll have to really work on improving your skill as a magus. If this is something you folks want to pursue, I'll have to do some thinking.
>>
>>3615821
Nah. While it may seem handy-dandy, we don't have the limitless power AM had. I also don't want to end up becoming All the World's Evil 2.0.
>>
>>3615819
So here's the thing.
Any one of the protagonists you picked would have to go through a journey of self-discovery in Akeldama. Yumigawa was a husk from birth; Keiseki was burned out by work until there was practically nothing left; Matsuda had to find some meaning in life beyond combat, because fighting had stopped being fulfilling; Ogawara was stepping outside the otaku world and interfacing meaningfully with real people for practically the first time. Whoever you picked, they'd end up being shaped by the events of Akeldama to a high degree.
>>
>>3615821
>can actually get our own Saber Alter
Well.
This was unexpected.
I'm all for this.

Also if Astolfo was around he would despise us for killing Roland.
>>
>>3615831
I can only begin to imagine the dumb anime name Ogawara would've taken as a servant.
>>3615829
We don't need limitless power, we can probably just incarnate her.
>>
>>3615832
>if Astolfo was around he would despise us for killing Roland.
Anon, we wouldn't have killed Roland if Astolfo was there.
>>
>>3615839
...because Rider would've been Astolfo, so you would have had to kill him. I'm not sure what scenario you and >>3615832 are imagining.
>>
>>3615839
You are correct, we would've killed the trap with much less effort.
I'm talking if there was an extra Rider, though.
>>
>>3615844
You weren't correcting anything.
I was being hypothetical.
>>
>>3615841
I wasn't imagining anything, I was just correcting him.
>>
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>>3615821
Well damn. She evaded me when I was playing FGO, thats very tempting.
And if we can get on that level of power just by training our skills in this war it is really actually worth investing all that time into.
>>
>>3615841
>Rider would've been Astolfo
I like our new sword but would have prefered it honeslty. He has very juice skill set to loot from. Much better than things Roland had.
>>
>>3615855
It turns out Alberich is an absolute super prodigy at magecraft, it seems.
I guess it comes from being what we are.
>>
>>3615877
I didn't say it'd be easy, mind.
But also yes, Alberich is a designer hero made out of the mashed up souls of a bunch of magi and heroic spirits.
>>
>>3615877
I mean, he could read textbooks for a few hours and figure out how to do elemental manipulation all on his lonesome. It's the equivalent of being able to play a violin semi-passably by reading some manuals for two days.

>>3615882
How many magi were killed in the Akeldama anyways? We personally killed O'Mordha, and we know Joe killed a couple, but I'd like to know.
>>
>>3615869
Astolfo would have died against us very quickly.
His parameters are all trash.
His Noble Phantasms are all OK at best.
An unrepentantly shit tier Servant.
In what way does he have better stuff than Roland?
We have an Anti-World sword now.
>>
>>3615882
>Alberich is a designer hero made out of the mashed up souls of a bunch of magi and heroic spirits.
Hmmm. Really makes me think just HOW mashed up we are.
I was under the impression that we were a black slate and only recently started to take on attributes from other spirits and such.
But could it be that even before we were given the base memories of Rush, we had bits and bobs from others.
I need to see an Alberich pie chart now.
>>
>>3615889
Alberich is a totality anon. A singularity in the universe, a collapsed mass of mystic energy and souls. There is only one.
>>
>>3615885
Of the 1,050 humans summoned to the Akeldama, just over 10% were magi. 109 died, in all.
>>
>>3615893
Wow, that's some pretty good summoning on Judas's part.
>>
>>3615893
Damn, that's a lot of Magi.
What of the normal humans? I assume they all had some form of passable magic circuits?
>>
>>3615851
Yeah, I guess correcting was the wrong word for it.

>>3615855
>wanting a fatass under your command
>>
>>3615899
>Fatass
She wishes.
>>
>>3615897
Everybody summoned had the potential to be a magi, iirc.
>>
>>3615903
*magus

>>3615902
Fatass, anon, not fat ass. Besides a firm but plush butt is better than a fat one.
>>
>>3615886
Monstrous Strength is nice.
Hippogriff is better than Brigliadoro.
Trap of Argalia sound very strong if used by us.
La Black Luna could be useful too.
Casseur de Logistille is also very useful even though we have no Caster to bully with it currently.
Our sword IS much better than all of this but a lot of potentially strong stuff if copied by us here or so I believe.
>>
>>3615897
Nope. A couple did, but for the most part they were only normal humans with no circuits.
>>
>>3615917
Oh.
>>
Why DOES Alturia has such a Hank Hill butt anyway?
>>
Alberich is fast becoming some sort of FGO arc villain with the servants.
Like if he gets them all.
Circe, Adelheid and Seiba Alter in addition to being an extraordinarily broken "Hero" himself, especially with eventually being able to corrupt Servants.
>>
>>3615227
>>[ ] Accept Emiya's invitation.
>>
>>3615933
>Arc 3 is now Apocrypha-tier Grail War with Team Alberich vs Team World
Kind of neat to be honest.
>>
>>3615933
It's a bit of a stretch. You don't have Circe and Adelheid anymore, and Saber Alter is still a pipe dream. You're definitely a long way from Arjuna Alter in terms of power.
I realize Alberich has wound up a bit OP, but I have no intention of this quest reaching Overlord levels of protagonist-wankery.
>>
>>3615972
We still haven't actually seen the extent of our power, with our recently upgraded sword. I'm stoked to find out how we compare.
>>
>>3615972

You know what they say when the protagonist gets more OP: Throw enemies at them far more bullshit than before, in one way or another
>>
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I'm bored so I when looking for a possible picture of Truvietianne based on her description in Akeldama Part II
>Taking the lead is a young woman, around your own age, with heavy blonde curls and an ornate blue dress, possibly silk.

This is what I've come up with.
I'm sure her eye color is different, and this dress is far from blue, but you work with what you got.
>>
Come to think about it.
We are Servant with physical body right now. Just like good old Seibah on her Hill. She is more or less bouncing between two time periods with same body.
Would we actually disappear after War ends if our existance a lot more than simple Heroic Spirit pulled from Throne of Heroes?
>>
>>3615990
Rose! My favorite SNK character! What a pleasant surprise.
>>
>>3615990
Speaking of Truvi, I wonder how she's doing?
>>
>>3615972
>I realize Alberich has wound up a bit OP, but I have no intention of this quest reaching Overlord levels of protagonist-wankery.
Amount of bullshit powers presented in Fate kind of makes such protagonist-wankery impossible I think. No matter how strong you can get some stuff will always counter you hard. Where is Overlord was all about wanking the only player in existence as one of the point story was making.
>>
>>3615998
Alberich, seek the answer within thyself.
>>
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>>3616009
God damn it I was JUST about to make a post about how I DIDN'T want that to be the case.
>>
>>3616009
>They have been watching all this time through our eyes alongside Judas
At very least they are safe right now.
>>
>>3616015
I'm just joking around. You still don't know whether anyone made it out of the Akeldama.
Good picture choice! That hairstyle is more what I had in mind for Truvietianne than Rose's.
>>
>>3616003
Yeah, we're nowhere NEAR the same level of Stu as your typical isekai protagonist.

>>3616009
You stop that.
>>
>>3616009
Stop this immediately.
>>3616021
Why must you toy with us like this.
>>
>>3616009
Jokes aside we really ought to do some introspection about our nature. Maybe have a nice private chat with Judas.
>>
>>3616036
I wonder if we can mentally kick his ass.
>>
>>3616036
>nice
I doubt that we'll have many things to say to him that could be considered nice.
>>
>>3616042
No "thank you for bringing me into the world"? You don't appreciate all the effort he's gone to on your behalf?
>>
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>>3616021
Oh man, ok.
Gezz you had me worried there for a second, I really do miss our Akeldama crew you know.

That aside I'm glad you like the image I'm glad you like them.
Rose is a good girl, and Maribelle needs more love in general.
>>
>>3616049
It is a rebellious phase right now.
>>
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>>3616035
Because it's fun, of course!
>>
>>3616036
We should probably spend some time trying to locate our old allies.
If only to discover if Judas lied about that.
For Matsuda and Kikuko we have actual locations to look into.
Rin is well acquaintanced with the Edelfelts so she might know actually know about Truvi.
Ogawara is probably continuously trying to reveal the existence of magic on image boards and getting told to fuck off with his "stupid cowboy dream." If he's alive.
>>3616049
"Thanks for creating me to be some living weapon to fight in a war that you couldn't be bothered to fight! Thanks also for deceiving me and removing me from the two people I actually learned to love!"
>>3616064
I think only you find it fun. You monster.
>>
>>3616082
We could do that tomorrow and give Assassin some hostages to kidnap as a result.
>>
>>3616106
By making a few phone calls?
>>
>>3616115
That would be better.
>>
>>3616049
I'm unironically grateful, despite his motivations we literally wouldn't exist without him. The hateboner is pretty poorly justified. But that's just my opinion.
>>
>>3616123
Hateboner sort of have a bit of justification though.
It comes off as heat of the moment where our entire worldview crushed on us.
In retrospective a lot of stuff he said and done becomes much more benevolent.
If he will assist us in our goals and won`t sabotage our efforts to gain true freedom he is very valuable asset for us.
>>
>>3616123
It depends solely on the statuses of our servants, and our friends.
If they are dead/gone then our hatred will never cool.
>>
>>3616159
I could see us caring a bit about Matsuda, but we didn't seem to bond all that much with the other humans. We were pretty preoccupied. Definitely Circe and Adelheid though.

Despite caring as much as we do about those two, we haven't done anything to investigate what happened to them when Akeldama was finished. Another reason to introspect and speak to Judas.
>>
>>3616196
We've just been overwhelmed mentally over and over again.
Just no time to think back really.
There's also the problem that thinking about his missing waifus makes Alberich really sad.
Honestly, Alberich has known Matsuda, Ogawara and Circe for almost his entire life.
Truvi as well, actually.
>>
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>>3616241
>We've just been overwhelmed mentally over and over again.
>Just no time to think back really.

>inb4 we only get to think back to everything, at the time of our death, after all is said and done
>>
>>3616279
I'm sure Alberich will know peace in his life.
Even if he has to take it for himself.
Seriously tho, having Saber Alter as an ally will be great. Alberich already showed he has no problem with mindfucking his enemies.
Can you imagine the look on Shirou's face if he and Rider are about to fight Saber again but then we just step from the shadows?
If you ask me, forcing Saber to work for us via corrupting her further is the perfect revenge.
>>
>>3615715
Anon, the finns are a special case. They are horrific mongolian half-breeds with flat, broad faces and bags under their eyes.
t.Swede
>>
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>>3616434
>swede insulting anyone
Should've said "Dane".
>>
So if we befriend/adopt/get adopted by Lily and she can survive the wish, what do we do with her after the war?
>>
>>3616445
We are the perfect race anon. Swedish people are among the most beautiful on the planet
>>
>>3616459
Adopt her, obviously.
>>
>>3616487
Update when?
>>
We really should have a powwow with judas first chance we get
That may be the only way to get our waifu's
>>
>>3616487
What if she survives the wish, but due to being a homonculus, is going to die early?
Do we see if we can find something to save her?
I'm sure something in Number Space could.
>>
>>3616499
Maybe we can unlock our super secret hidden NP to summon facsimiles of our waifus to help fight on our behalf.

>dream crusher: EX incoming I'm sure
>>
>>3616492
When it's done.

>>3616500
The operative term is imaginary. All space is number space; the normal world is the world of real numbers, the other is the world of imaginary numbers.
>>
>>3616504
>NP which turns the servant back to his master form, costing him his stats and abilities. BUT that servant then summons two powerful sub-servants of the classes Caster and Berseker
Antaglio dies of a heart attack after this ability is revealed
>>
>>3616516
I'll bear that in mind.

I wonder if we could fix Lily by making her eat a Dragon's Heart or something...
>>
So what are the odds that Berserker is going to absolutely wreck our shit and no sell us?

I do want that Defensive NP though, Rider has B rank strength so if they weren't able to scratch him it means he has some serious defence.
>>
>>3616683
>So what are the odds that Berserker is going to absolutely wreck our shit and no sell us?
Well it isn't Heracles, so it shouldn't be that high if we take what we learned with Adelheid into account(Berserkers are the strongest class in terms of raw power) and play it from there.
>>
>>3616683
Unless he has godhand or some shit it's pretty low
>>
>>3616767
At this point we get even through God Hand since our sword is A rank.
>>
>>3616853
Yeah, for one life.
>>
>>3616866
Is it possible to take off more than one life at a time, or is that a fanon thing? Also, would it really invalidate a higher ranked NP?
>>
>>3616880
No, it is possible, it's just that a cut as clean as ours would probably only take one.
>>
>>3616866
We'd need to be able to kill him 13 times in super quick succession.
So we'd need either our sword to be capable of A++ Excaliblasts (or Caliburn asspulls) or potentially an attack that hits 13+ times with fatal blows.
>>
>>3616683

Don't count the chickens before they hatch Anon. Until we actually SEE Berserker's NPs I'm supporting of using him for a parameter boost.

Also on a different note, someone explain to me what makes Arunja Alter so bullshit? I know regular Arunja is fairly bullshit but I need a hand conceptualizing get it? what'd make Arunja Alter more bullshit than normal
>>
>>3616894
Just use its portal ability and remove everything besides his head.
That should take some lives.
>>
>>3616897
Arjuna Alter is all of the Gods from Hindu myth bar like 2.
>>
>>3616905

I'm kinda terrified as to what that means. Elaborate further
>>
>>3616911
He's an amalgamation of all of the Gods in the Hindu pantheon.
He's got EX Clairvoyance, as well as a fuckload of other EX things.
>>
>>3616934

>EX Clairvoyance

Jesus Christ he already sounds broken, is one of his NPs that bow which turns into a staff able to just erase existence? I must learn more of how properly bullshit AA is
>>
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>>3616954
Well, the description of the NP is some real chuuni "end the World if he swings it" shit.
Clairvoyance EX is the ability to see the future and the past, iirc. Gil and Solomon also have it.
AA has Clairvoyance (Transcendent) EX.
Idk what the difference is.
As well as a skill called Anti Evil EX and Lantern of the Soul EX
As to what they do

Unfortunately, finding more info is pretty difficult because he was only recently released.
>>
>>3617002
>EX
>EX
>EX
>EX
XDXDXD
>>
>>3617002

>FOUR EX SKILLS

Jesus Christ how horrifying
>>
>>3617010
He also has Divinity EX and Madness Enhancement EX
>>
>>3617016
Based and Vedas-pilled
>>
>>3617016
So he needs a Brobylon Tag-Team to fuck him up?
>>
>>3617016
He also has an EX skill that represents Arjuna desparately holding on to the last of his humanity.
That's why he has Divinity EX rather than something like Goddess's Divine Core A++
>>
>>3617029
Tbh the Babylon tag-team could fuck just about anyone up.
>>
What Stage is Circe in when we had her btw?
>>
>>3617058
Stage?
>>
>>3617066
I assume he means ascension art.
>>
>>3617069
Oh. 2nd ascension mostly, but when she used powerful magic the 3rd ascension ornamentation showed up. She never had short hair.
>>
>>3617075
Ah ok rad.
Was just wondering.
>>
>>3616524
>Antagilo goes back to rome
>The people nearby could hear him loudly saying
>"I DON'T CARE ANYMORE, DO WHATEVER. DON'T COME CRYING TO US IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS."
>>
>>3617029
Nah but if you have Karna you get Super Karna vs Super God Super Arjuna.
>>
>>3617106
>the very next day somebody summons Tiamat and destroys Japan
>>
>>3617106
>Perhaps Tokyo will be destroyed! It's really none of my concern at this point.
>You people have worn me down to the very end of my patience!
>I am going home, where I will be hunting vampires; it is simple, and it is the Lord's work!
>>
>>3617002
>Unique skill that no other Servant has
>Can't be measured on the scale for this skill
It's like they forgot what EX means.
>>
>>3617124
>"He's strong so let's just slap EXs all over him"
>>
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>>3617120
Thoughts on this, Sweets? Would we, say, eventually be able to fire off something like Zeus' lightning bolts without immediately being BTFO?
>>
>>3617145
Only if we were a girl and have him a handy first.
>>
>>3617153
>Only if we were a girl
Not sure he's that discerning desu
>>
>>3617145
You'd certainly have to work on strengthening your relationship with the god in question first. Not just general "hero of the gods" stuff, but actually working to get permission from a specific divine spirit.
>>
>>3617159
Maybe if we were Ogawara-tier.
>>
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>>3617163
Excellent.
>>
>>3617120
>Vampires
Thank god Judas did not drag someone like Arcuied or a Dead Apostle in. If the Moon Cell could do it then Judas could do it.
>>
>>3617163
Luckily for us, we already have a God to buddy up to.
All we need to do is fucking find her.
>>
>>3617184
>Arcuied
I to this day don't know what the fuck she was doing there.
Hell, when she loses she just leaves.
>>
>>3617163

PERFECT!

Now then time to compile a short list of gods to buddy up to, anons throw in your suggestions for it and I'll make the list
>>
>>3617195
The Moon Cell just grabbed her and fucked with her mind.
The real reason is reference, hell in the same route you fight Cu.
>>
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>>3617165
Speaking of which, a while ago you folks were talking about what might've happened if Ogawara had been the protagonist become a Servant.
Attached is a portrait of the Servant Caster, formerly known as Ogawara Yatsuhide.
>>
>>3617205
Uh.
Hades/Zeus/Poseiden are always a good shout
>>
>>3617219
Praise god we didn't
>>
>>3617205
I, for one, think Fortuna deserves some praising myself.
>>
>>3617219
God damn it. Poor Ogawara can't catch a break.
>>
>>3617219
Man...the Ogawara route is different different.
>>
So isn't Rin a good chance of knowing if Truv survived. I am sure she would be able to hear gossip if a mage from another good standing family were to suddenly disappear.
>>
>>3617225
>>3617236
>>3617246
Well, you know. It's not like you would've had to cross-dress. I'm just developing on the theme from earlier.
>>
>>3617253
A lot of "mages from good standing families" have disappeared anon. I imagine her discussions will be of the dead and Consumed rather than of the living. Hence, we will not know unless we specifically ask.
>>
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>>3617075
dang, shortce can be top cute too
>>
>>3617205
Gods to buddy up with?
>Odin

But since we are in Japan then
>Amaterasu
>Hachiman
>Daikoku
>Fudo
>Jurojin
>Raiden (If the other gods of Thunder don't want us)
>Tsuki-yumi

Or we could go older and go Babylonian, or maybe an Aztec god(s), the Aztec ones may like the sacrifice part. Egyptian gods could be cool.
>>
>>3617262
The real question is where Servant Ogawara ranks on Alberich's tier list.
>>
>>3617253
It's something we could ask.
We really should go to Matsuda and Ogawara's schools to see if they're there too.

>>3617262
The fact that Ogawara's sexuality is a "developing theme" is still different different.
I actually think it's kinda interesting, although I'm more than happy with the current route thank you.
>>
>>3617262
...although now that I think about it, doing the quest with a Ranma-style Servant would be entertaining. Yeah, Ogawara's story definitely would've been more of a comedy.

>>3617275
See >>3615792
>>
>>3617274
>Amaterasu
She...
Probably doesn't give a single fuck.
She's unbelievably OP.
>>
>>3617288
Gods are very fickle beings.

Also I am looking at my book of Aztec gods and goddesses. Fucking hell these names.
>>
>>3617286
>more of a comedy.
That's a pretty dark comedy then.
>>
>>3617300
Dark? My quest? Whatever could you mean?
>>
>>3617299
No, I mean, she's on a different level to other Gods.
She's the Sun.
She kidnaps Hakuno millions of years through time, just to say hi. She's not affected by the time axis either.
She'd very easily destroy most Beasts.
>>
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>you are now imagining a scenario where Alberich catches Ammy's eye for even a second
>>
>All these hacks wanting to shmooze with other gods when we have the best goddess right...well she's somewhere
Shame.
SHAME!
S H A M E!
>>
>>3617299

They're actually pretty simple to pronounce. Just say them like how they look they'd sound.

Well seeing the suggestions made let's give them the look over

>Zeus: Hey getting lightning from him and the true get out of jail for rape free card would be great to get from Zeus. Then again we'd have to deal with Zeus
>Poseidon: Floods, Earthquakes, and Horses of all kinds oh my. Seems to be a good pal to make if we were to become a Rider instead of Saber
>Hades: Based underworld bro and would probably let us have a feeding frenzy of all the shit folks and monsters of Tartarus
>Odin: Knowledge of all kinds, Primordial Runes, great storyteller.

>>3617325

Hey anon, while Circe is our waifu. Who says we can't become pals of the other gods hm?
>>
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>>3617325
Its only business with them Circe would be number 1.

>>3617312
>>3617324
I forgot that without Tamamo's protection this gif would happen
>>
>>3617332
Oh I know they are simple to pronounce but like jesus christ writing these out is the most nonsense. Speaking of which there are way more than I remember incuding some that are gods of the same thing as fifteen other gods.
>>
>>3617332
Me.
And probably Circe herself considering her relationship with the rest of the pantheon.

>>3617338
I'm sure the other gods would figure out we're using them for their power.
I'd think they'd only past down their abilities to their loyal servants, not some shmuck that's trying to get a power boost.
>>
>Nobody is interested in petitioning Fortuna
Luck could ALWAYS side with Alberich
>>
>>3617345
Hey I listed a god of luck.
>>
>>3617350
>Japanese Luck
No thanks yo
>>
Akeldama Archer's pretty obviously a single target Quick and pairs well with Skadi

Is ourguy Alberich Arts, Buster, or Quick?
>>
>>3617302
Seriously, though, you folks don't all think this quest is too dark to have been run as a comedy, do you? I mean, it's got its comical moments. I don't think it's that dark.
>>
>>3617367
Two Arts and two Buster, Buster NP.
>>
>>3617368
I don't think it'd be as good as this version of the quest- the "seriousness" is quite refreshing. You could have done it of course, but I like it better this way.
>>
>>3617368
I don't think it's dark, it just doesn't shy away from how dangerous a war involving beyond super human beings and ruthless mages can be.
>>
>>3617368
Well, it's dark, but it's not grim.
Shit gets pretty fucked, but the situations you put us in are by no means insurmountable or devoid of any possible light-heartedness.

Moments where we dink around with the old Akeldama crew or conversations with Circe and Adelheid are some of my favorites cause of how humorous it gets.
And then there are times like now when I'm just hungry for battle.
It's a balancing act you seem to have down pretty well for the most part.
>>
I'm confused. Is the Circe we knew as a servant literally the goddess or is goddess Circe in the IR with the rest of the gods?
>>
>>3617440
Circe is the deposed goddess.
>>
>>3617379
>>3617385
>>3617411
Thank you all. This is heartening, and tells me I'm doing something like my goal of approximating the original Fate/Stay Night's tone.

>>3617440
No. Neither. Circe was demoted from being a goddess prior to the end of the Age of Gods. That's why she could become a Heroic Spirit. She was a goddess, ceased to be a goddess, and died as a nymph on Aeaea. The events of the Odyssey occur after she has ceased to be a goddess.
>>
>>3617452
Circe Promotion Arc when?
>>
>>3617457
You sure you want that? She would probably end up confined to IN Space if we do that.
>>
>>3617457
Once you're in a position to order the masses to build temples, I suppose.
>>
>>3617468
So soon, that's wonderful news.
>>
who else wants to see Alberich up against non-servant enemies and just absolutely destroy them?
>>
>>3617505
I'm not feeling it. Do you recognize your own greatness when you stomp a beetle?
>>
>>3617508
I'm just interested to see how far he's come.
>>
>>3617505
Not really.
If I wanted to squish insects I'd go outside.
>>
>>3617509
We were already stomping non-servants before we were a servant. If anything, dismantling a heroic spirit like we did Rider is real proof of Alberich's progress
>>
Question for you folks.
If you'd gone for the Matsuda route, as some people discussed in a previous thread, what Servant class would you have picked at the end of Akeldama? Saber again, or something else?
>>
>>3617517
If we went Matsuda? Probably Berserker, since we would've played into that, maybe.
>>
>>3617517
Assuming all the same options + Caster as his servant? Lancer probably. It's what I would've voted for If I wasn't asleep
>>
>>3617517
I could see him going Berserker with low Madness Enhancement a la Beowulf.
>>
>>3617517
Probably Berserker, but there are a lot of thematic variables that aren't available since we don't know the details of a possible Matsuda route.
Maybe by the end of the thing, Matsuda would have made a more fitting Lancer or even a Saber like you suggest.
Who can really say?
>>
Imagine Matsuda with something like a Devil Trigger NP.
>>
"We'd be happy to spend the evening here," you say, "and I'm glad of the opportunity of meeting this woman Rin. It isn't every day one has the chance to speak with a Sorcerer's apprentice, to be sure."

"That's a pretty normal reaction," Shirou says with a laugh. "Whatever she ends up doing, Rin stays the center of attention. You'll have to hope she doesn't charge you to answer your questions."

"Senpai! You shouldn't speak poorly of Nee-san like that," Sakura scolds.

"It's hardly slander," Rider observes, showing the first smile you've seen from her.

"You too, Rider?" Sakura turns a hurt gaze on the treacherous Servant. "Both of you, really! Even if it isn't exactly wrong, you ought to be more respectful with guests here."

If even her protective sister admits it, this Rin must be incredibly full of herself, you surmise privately. Nonetheless, you'd rather she not remain the conversation's focus indefinitely.

"Emiya-san," you interject, is there anything else you can tell us about the Berserker you fought? You said he was a barehanded fighter, but perhaps we can guess at his identity from his fighting style. In any case, Miss Ayaka and I may find ourselves facing him alone in the future, so any information you can provide would be useful."

Emiya shakes his head. "If he was a martial artist when he was alive, that skill was consumed by his Madness. He fought almost mindlessly, punching, kicking, and making grabs; just relying on raw power and speed. Besides that, I really don't have more to tell. His body and face were hidden by that robe, and he didn't have any distinguishing marks as a hero besides his power and toughness."

"I see," you say. "Not a complex enemy; simple and powerful. That's frustrating, but I suppose there's nothing to be done for it."

At that point, you're interrupted by the doorbell, and Sakura gets up to receive the visitor. You overhear the high, strident voice of another woman just after she opens the door, but you can't make out the words; only that they're excited to see each other again.

"Hello, Shirou," says a black-haired woman as she walks into the room. A new face; this must be Rin. Her wavy hair cascades over shoulders clad in a red topcoat, under which she wears a white blouse, black knee-length skirt, and ankle boots. You can't help but notice, looking at her face and figure, that the family resemblance between her and her sister is practically nonexistent; yet surely this must be the expected guest.

"Sakura says you have other guests. I hope I'm not interrupting-" Rin cuts herself off as she catches sight of you, her face going stiff as her friendly expression gives way to hostility. Her hand, raised in a wave, drops to her side.
>>
"No, I don't think I am interrupting," she says in a lower, quite different tone, "and from the looks of your guest, I suppose you've already heard the news I'm here to bring." Then it clicks for you. She's a magus, and this is a variation on a reaction you've seen before. Best to head things off at the pass, then.

"I am not a member of the Einzbern house," you say, getting to your feet to greet the woman. "You needn't be concerned-"

"I believe you aren't one of them," she says, this time cutting you off rather than herself. "But you are a Servant." Then, looking back to Emiya, she demands, "You've already involved? Are you a Master again?"

"You were coming to visit because of the Holy Grail War?" Emiya gives Rin a look of bland surprise, as he asks, "How did you know about it?"

"Yes, Shirou," Rin says with a sigh, putting the palm of her hand to her forehead, "that's why I'm here. Do you remember the Clock Tower Lord I worked with to dismantle the Fuyuki Grail? Well, he called in a favor with that old man and had me sent to put a stop to this War."

"On your own?" Shirou cocks an eyebrow in disbelief.

"Kaleidoscope's apprentices get no easy tasks," Rin says wryly, as if quoting, "but no, I wasn't supposed to be alone. Luviagelita was sent as well, but she's been called home by some family crisis. I don't know the details; but that's enough about my situation. How did you get caught up in a Grail War again, Emiya-kun?"

"Geh." Shirou frowns. "You haven't called me that in years. Don't start up again now."

"I was the one who involved Emiya-san in the War," you say, deciding to cut into the conversation before the pair gets too deep in banter about old times. "Emiya-san and I met by chance, and he recognized my nature at that time. After that we spoke at length, and he convinced me to aid him in his endeavor to prevent the Holy Grail War from taking any more lives."

Seeing the impatience in Rin's expression, you give her your best smile and, with a courtly bow, continue, "I am the Servant Saber, and she beside me is my Master."

"Shijou Ayaka, Master of Saber," Ayaka says at your prompt.

"What might your name be, miss?" you continue, completing your formal greeting to Rin.

"Tohsaka Rin," the woman answers curtly. "And what sort of heroic spirit would agree to stop the Holy Grail War? You should have been summoned by the power of your wish for the Grail. Don't you mind losing that?" If your knightly gesture made any impact on her, she isn't showing it; but then, perhaps she's been inured to such posturing by her time around the no-doubt eccentric denizens of the Clock Tower.

"New life," you say, "is the wish common to most Servants, and Miss Rider there is living proof that one doesn't need the Holy Grail to achieve it. With a sufficient supply of mystic energy, I can be sustained in the world without the need to participate in the chaotic bloodbath they call the Holy Grail War."
>>
"So you decided to help Shirou, just like that?" Rin looks at you with surprise. "A personality like that is a rarity even among Heroic Spirits. Are you sure Shirou didn't summon you?"

"No, it's like he said," Emiya interjects. "We just happened to meet in the shopping center."

"What about you, then?" Rin rounds on Ayaka as her next target of interrogation. "How did you come to agree to stop the War? You said your name was Shijou; you're a magus from the family who provided the land for the ritual."

"Not only a member; I am the Second Owner of this area, the head of the Shijou house," Ayaka answers, maintaining her composure admirably under the older woman's scrutiny. "Nonetheless, it was my grandfather who, eighty-five years ago, agreed to host the Holy Grail War on our land: a man I have never met. Whatever his reasons for accepting the Einzberns' offer were, they weren't passed on to his children or to me. Perhaps we could use it to reach the Swirl of Origin, but doing so by means of another family's technique would shame the Shijou lineage. I just want to keep the people of this city safe from the violence being brought here by the Holy Grail War."

"In that case, it seems we can all cooperate for the time being," Rin announces, finally taking a seat at the coffee table. "Now, it seems like the War is already underway, since you two had the chance to meet and discuss whether or not to intervene. What can you tell me about what's happened so far?"

>[ ] Tell your side of the story (Pride) (Write in what to recount/omit)

>[ ] Let Emiya do the talking (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
>>
Sorry it was just one update today, folks. I've kind of had a lot on my plate this weekend, and it's been hard to write.
>>
>>3617670
>but she's been called home by some family crisis.
Oh fuck.
That's...
Not good.
>>
>>3617670
>Luviagelita was sent as well, but she's been called home by some family crisis.

TRUVI NO
>>
>>3617674
>[ ] Tell your side of the story (Pride) (Write in what to recount/omit)
Should probably recount Akeldama to Rin (maybe include names, if pressed for more info.), Being defeated by Other Saber and our defeat of Rider (whilst sparing his Master) who demanded we duel him.
Nothing else is really relevant.
Omit: Einzbern interaction, power stealing, Most of the Akeldama specifics. Like the murdering and brainwashing parts.
>>
>>3617708
Oh god oh fuck.
We need to find out the truth about this very soon.
Here's hoping she's just freaked out about grail wars.
If she's missing that bodes so very poorly.
>>
>>3617711
I am down for this.

But mention the Akeldama servants by their true names. Definitely mention Judas and being inside of us. Also mention if anyone knows how, if we are alive afterwards with no downgrade, to get rid of Judas.
>>
>>3617719
Eh sure, names too. Maybe not Berserker's name though. Just say we never found out.
Teaming up with Hitler might have some bad implications.
Can't wait to see Rider's face when Perseus is mentioned.
>>
>>3617711
>>3617719
>Recount the whole Akeldama story
>Include true names
But why, anon? How does this benefit you? There are some details that telling her might help with, regarding your constitution, but I don't see what going over the whole Akeldama Grail War is meant ti accomplish.
>>
>>3617728
I meant skip over most of it and just give a brief summary, the true names of a few servants just to add some flavour/truthfulness to the story.
And yes, our constitution too.
We should also ask her if she's heard of O'Mordha before, or of his disappearance, he was a clock tower magus wasn't he?
It should thoroughly prove the story is truthful.
>>
>>3617715
Hold on.
Aren't the Edelfelts special cases among magi in that they can have two heirs?
Our options here
1: Truvi is dead/still missing
2: Truvi told the family about Akeldama and this somehow caused enough uproar for Luvia to go home
3: Truvi's sibling got summoned alomg with her and wasn't lucky enough to meet us.
4. Sweets wildcards us and pulls something completely unexpected.
>>
>>3617674
>[ ] Tell your side of the story (Pride) (Recount the war as you told it to the Emiyas, omitting recent...revelations.)
>>
>>3617739
>>3617719
Can we please not reveal such intimate details.
We really need to make a point to not reveal unnecessary elements of our life and times. Such info can and will be used against us.
Even things like the true name of enemy servants could be dangerous.
And bringing up Judas specifically is a horrible mistake.
Keep it simple stupids, if they want more info they'll ask.
>>
>>3617916
Pray tell how the true names of dead servants like Blackbeard or Perseus could possibly hurt us.
No Judas though.
Not yet anyway.
>>
>>3617674
>[ ] Tell your side of the story (Pride) (Write in what to recount/omit)
Should probably recount Akeldama to Rin (maybe include names, if pressed for more info.), Being defeated by Other Saber and our defeat of Rider (whilst sparing his Master) who demanded we duel him.
Nothing else is really relevant.
Omit: The recent revelations about Judas, the true names of our servants, Einzbern interaction, power stealing, Most of the Akeldama specifics. Like the murdering and brainwashing parts.
>>
>>3617923
I legitimately don't know.
What I do know is magi are a crafty bunch and information is power.
I'd rather not make our enemies more powerful.
>>
>>3617939
You give them way too much credit.
Most magi are outmatched by "speedy asshole with guns."
There's no real risk to dropping the names or lack of, for Archer, Lancer and Rider.
Maybe Extra Assassin too.
>>
>>3617945
>Maybe Extra Assassin too.
Absolutely not.
Nothing to do with Judas should be revealed that hasn't already been shared.
He's too closely linked to our own patchwork existence.
>>
Hey, what if those still alive at the end of the Fake Holy Grail War didn't make it out, but instead are trapped within us like Judas is. When someone made a comment about whether someone from there was still alive Sweet gave the hint, "Look within yourself", or something like that. What if we can contact then through the meditation of our own existence option that was given a few times.
>>
>>3617674
>[ ] Tell your side of the story (Pride) (Write in what to recount/omit)
Recount Akeldama ( include names ONLY if pressed for more info), Being defeated by the other Saber and our defeat of Rider (who challenged us to a duel) and our sparing of his master
Omit finding out that Judas is our daddy, the true names of our servants even when pressed, our run in with the Einzberns, the power stealing shit, our lack of morality in Akeldama (you know with all the murdering and the brainwashing )
>>
>>3617956
And a few posts later Sweets said he was only joking around.
>>3616021
>>
>>3617345
I'm interested in getting favour from Fortuna.
EX rank luck is a very nice thing.
>>3617476
Affections of the Goddess A+ when?
Think of the Parameter boosts.
>>
>>3617960
>he was only joking around
And you believe that he is above lying?
>>
>>3617969
I think that if it kills everyone regardless of what occurs within, it would be too broken.
Sweets just likes bullying us.
>>
>>3617969
Well he's never lied before.
Not in recent memory anyway.
>>
>>3617969
No, I'm saying that the hint is worthless. Even if he was lying about joking then he could just as well have lied with the hint.
>>
>>3617961
Actually if we go so far as to make Circe a Goddess again by having hundreds of temples built for her it might even be A++,
or Gods forbid, EX.
>>
>>3617984
Assuming we can somehow make her a goddess again without banishing her to the realm of imaginary numbers, I'd expect a EX level boon from that.
I doubt that's how it works though.
>>
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>>3617988
There's one big reason that I don't want Affections of the Goddess EX.

being a mascot character sucks.
Then again I suppose it can manifest in a different way
>>
>>3617995
>Alberich replaces Circe's pig army as her mascot.
>Alberich plushies sold out in stores
>New NP with Alberich in it is super sick and boosts Circe's popularity big time.
>Pig fucks get shafted completely
Hoes Mad x240
>>
Ahahahaha
Holy shit
>Tokyo war was set up 85 years ago
>Third Grail War was approximately 85 years ago (Fifteen years from 5th war to the present, 10 from the 4th to the 5th and 60 from the 3rd to the 4th.)
Well then. At least somebody had the foresight to know they absolutely fucked everything up during the Third.
>>
At least we have the perfect reason for Alberich "the homunculus" to be here. We were secretly sent here to prevent any interference from the clocktower (or anyone else) to stop the grail war and make sure that it completes this time.
>>
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>>3618025
A good reason for us to be near the Emiyas too.
Waiting for the best opportunity to foil their aspirations, attempting to 1v4 A servant, SHIROU FUCKING EMIYA, a girl with basically unlimited magical energy and a sorcerer's apprentice may not go well for us.
I'm sorry Shirou. I hope if it comes to it we will attempt to restrain you all non lethally
God damn it I just realised we're the younger brother if we ally with Lily.
Curse only being about 3 weeks old.
>>
>>3617674
Just tell her about of the events of this grail war, starting with our summoning but including only what we know about other servants and masters. Don't tell her about Akeldama. We don't need any more scrutiny, especially from someone with Rins position.
>>
>>3618041
We already told Shirou about Akeldama though.
At least somewhat.
>>
>>3618045
Then there's no reason to repeat ourselves
>>
>>3618050
Eh, there's not much reason to be needlessly secretive with information we have already given ourselves.
Not like Rin won't get told about Akeldama by Shirou anyway.

>"I want to see a nice clean grail war from you seven masters"
>some asshole is burning down houses
>"Well OK just try and keep the casualties lo-"
>hours later somebody has accidentally sacrificed a thousand people creating Saber-2
>"What the fuck, Jean-Pierre?"
Also if Truvi isn't dead, a relative of hers is.
Gotta remember of the 109 Magi that died in Akeldama, we know of 1. Maybe 2 if the count included Truvi.
>>
>>3618081
>if
>>
>>3618084
>>if
what did you mean by this, anon?
>>
>>3618081
So you want a prominent magus to know that we're an abomination made of 1050 souls, over 100 of which were magic? Speaking about Akeldama at all could lead her to that information.
>>
>>3618089
>Not like Rin won't get told about Akeldama by Shirou anyway.
>>
>>3618089
No I don't want to tell Rin that.
But if we DON'T tell Rin, there's a higher likelihood she will think we're hiding something when Shirou tells her about Akeldama and research it more thoroughly.
Additionally, this is kind of a grail war, so she won't be able to dedicate much time to researching it.
>>
>>3618093
Should be "If we DON'T tell Rin anything at all"
>>
>>3618091
>>3618093
I'm just saying she's only asking about this grail war. The events of the Akeldama aren't relevant for her to know to achieve her goals.
>>
>>3618096
>"So why are there two Sabers?"
>>
>>3618085
>Maybe 2 if the count included Truvi.
>>
>>3618100
But that was just the count of how many died.
Truvi isn't dead. OK?
I can't deal with this otherwise and will go back entirely to supporting the return of the gods just out of spite to the world that would allow something like this to happen.
>>
>>3618102
>allowing the entities that introduced ritual sacrifice to humanity back into the World
>>
>>3618107
>he cares about humanity
Look at this magus
>>
>>3618112
Hey, hey, spoilers: Some of Alberich's closest friends are human.
I refuse to accept that Matsuda is dead.
>>
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>>3618107
The apocalypse will teach everyone a lesson either way, it's all I care for now.
Oh, but we must protect Lily and Ayaka.
>>
>>3618107
So?
Every day millions of cows die to feed us
Cattle is cattle and shall be treated as such
>>
>>3618115
Maybe we'd know if we actually bothered to check up on them rather than just assuming them safe.
>>
>>3618138
Maybe if we didn't choose to stay...
>>
>>3618115
>Even closer than you can imagine anon

>>3618121
Lmao, niceu anon
>>
>>3618133
Hold on, humans aren't just cattle.
We can't think of them as such.
After all, who wants to be the ruler of mere animals, useful only for slaughter?
Our human allies are some of our closest friends.
Even Kikuko, who we should have treated like a slave by all rights, was treated very well.
>>
>>3618171
I honestly don't think we were ever close as people are remembering with any of our human allies
>>
>>3618173
(Except Matsuda)
Ogawara we were amused by and he had his uses.
Also if you think back, he was the one who told Matsuda to wait for us to pull through after the silver grail knocked us out.
Kikuko was eternally loyal and honestly despite her terrible personality, it's hard to dislike her.
Truvi we tolerated her haughty attitude but still appreciated her for her uses.
>>
>>3618173
Matsuda was a bro anon, he taught Alberich how to throw a punch. Point stands with everyone else- Ogawara was bemusing at best, Alberich played Truvi like a fiddle, and Kikuko was just a POW.
>>
>>3618196
Amusing. Amusing.
>>
>>3618205
You know, with >>3617219 in mind, I think the term bemusing definitely works as well.
>>
>>3617219
>>3617286
>more of a comedy
Would it though, Sweets?
Because Ranma-style gender changing Servant with female Caster-persona and Ogawara-persona would still get us to revelation about Judas and his heromaking master plan more or less shattering Ogawara-persona similarly how we no longer consider ourselves Yumigawa. Thats kind of identity death with female Caster being more a true self and would be a lot harder to Protagonist Ogawara to swallow without mental breakdown. Or so I think.
However, I do wish Caster was an option for us than we were picking class. It is the most potentially fun class.
>>3617368
I would not call it dark but I would say that Akeldama felt a bit more lighthearted due to us having a bigger support cast we had peaceful interaction with.
>>
On a scale of 1 to Ishtar, how angry would Gilgamesh be if we used Heiligöffnungschwert to cut through and break the chains of Enkidu?
>>
>>3618263
>implying we would need that
We don't have any Divinity yet.
>>
>>3618258
Man, I totally want to write that story!

>>3618263
Ishtar.
>>
>>3618258
>>3618267
Would definitely be a fun read.
>>
Imagine a Psuedo-Servant Ogawara.
>>
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Wait, which Servant would best fit if Ogawara became a Pseudo/Demi-Servant?
>>
>>3618267
It's such a shame we'll likely never meet the supreme jobber but doing that would just be hilarious.
More so if we jump into Imaginary Number Space before he Enuma Elishes us out of raeg.
[The Mesopotamian Pantheon loved that.]
>>
>>3618286
We need to go deeper. Summoning Caster-Ogawara to our -verse from alternative past as our take on EMIYA.
>>
>>3618298
As much as I want to say you answered your own question with that post, it would really be Osakabehime.
>>
>>3618312
Of course.
God damn it, Ogawara.
>>3618302
Just summon Pseudo-Servant versions of the whole crew! Fuck it, throw original Yumigawa in there too!
>>
>>3618312
Astolfo could work, in regards to Ogawara's supposed motivation, or somebody similar.
>>
>>3618338
But then we'd be playing as Astolfo.
>>
>>3617674
>[ ] Tell your side of the story (Pride) (Write in what to recount/omit)
Recount: General story about Akeldama and our adventures it this war.
Omit: All staff that paints us in a bad, psychopatic or ruthless way, Judas and true nature of his plan, true names of our Servants, Einzberns, true nature of our powers and our Servant diet.
I do however want ask to give us one metagaming fanservice thing: mentioning to them about Perseus getting one-shoted by a "Nameless Archer". I really want to watch their reaction and following barrage of questions only to answer to them Adelheid-style about them not watching Dollars trilogy in complete dead pan manner. This is way to glorious to past.
>>
>>3618344
We aren't in the Moon Cell so EMIYA is still called EMIYA and not "Nameless"
>>
>>3618338
That's why I said I was tempted to say you answered your own question.

>>3618343
How so? You're not a pseudo-Servant now.
>>
>>3618354
He's talking about the man without name who was the archer in the akeldama war.
>>
>>3618356
The pro is that Astolfo would best fit Ogawara's motivation but then we'd have to play as Astolfo.
>>
>>3618354
Oh yeah, you are correct. My bad.
But damn that would have be amazing scene to read were it so.
>>
>>3618358
Yes, but he's under the impression that they would confuse TMWNN with EMIYA.
They would not.
>>
>>3618360
Anon, I don't understand what you're talking about.

Tfw Ogawarastolfo would hate us because we killed Roland.
But yes, Osakabehime fits his character far more.
>>
>>3618369
I was talking about a scenario where we chose to play Ogawara.
>>
>>3618378
Then he'd have become something like us, but a trap.
Not a Pseudo-Servant
>>
>>3618360
I'm asking how you would be playing as Astolfo. You aren't a pseudo-Servant now, on the Yumigawa route.
As for motivation, Osakabehime is a better match. What Astolfo resembles is...
Let's say his "tendencies."
>>
>>3618393
>his "tendencies."
Oh my.
>>
>>3618393
>Let's say his "tendencies."
I'm really hoping we didn't absorb him
>>
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>>3618393
>>3618378, but >>3618384 already answered.

>"tendencies."
Huh.

>>3618411
Don't worry, Sweets isn't sadistic like BB.
>>
>>3618393
>>3618407
It can't be all bad, can it?
>>
>>3618420
Delete this post and then yourself.
>>
>>3618420
Alberich disapproves of this action
>>
>>3618411
So you are not worried about stuff Keiseki might have carried?
>>
>>3618424
That worry has already been noted
>>
>>3618420
AaaaaaaaAAAAAAUGH!
Put the shirt back on, what's the point of a trap if they aren't feminine?
Get this yaoi trash outta here!
>>
>>3618424
Certainly not a good head on his shoulders.
>>
>>3618430
He did get a bit ahead of himself during negotiations, didn't he?
>>
>>3618436
He had very high Pride and wanted to avoid killing Masters if possible?
>>
Traps and questionable at best sexuality aside, how the fuck do we betray the emiya's without getting shit stomped by four servant tier combatants at the same time
>>
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>>3618440
leave
>>
>>3618436
He was headed for trouble the moment he shook our hand.
>>
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>>3618441
Pray for a miracle?
>>
>>3618446
Poor Keiseki. In the real world and in Akeldama, he never knew how to get ahead in life.
>>
>>3618450
He and O'Mordha were alike in a lot of ways, simply couldn't face the facts
>>
What were the opinions of the Akeldama servants of their masters, anyway?
>>
>>3618448
In addition to all the other similarities
>Lily was designed to fulfill a wish
>Alberich has the power to call upon miracles
Alberich is best Onii-chan
>>
>>3618441
>four servant tier combatants at the same time
The only way it ever gets to straight fight us vs four of them is going to be end of the war with bunch of Servants sacrificed to us and/or grinded magic tech tree. And even if we can`t get Circe and Adelheid back before end of war Sweets mentioned that it is possible to corrupt and get our own Saber Alter to even more tip the scales in our favor.
And it is not like all other Master and Servants present at this War will let third outsider group to crush the party just like that.
We have a lot of room to maneuver and now know crucial information that puts us ahead of everybode else involved.
>>
>>3618502
>Ascended Alberich versus the Fuyuki Gang
Hype Final Victory
>>
>>3618512
You forget one thing.
The Grail only needs 6 Servants to grant wishes.
If we get Saber Alter, the final battle against the Fuyuki Gang will be Alberich and Saber Alter trying to kill Rider.
Sorry, Emiya.
>>
>>3618441
By not taking them head on? if you have not either killed someone with the initial surprise attack or divided them before attacking then you really fucked it up.
>>
>Alberich, Adelheid, Circe, and Saber Alter vs. Shirou, Sakura, Rin, and Rider
Please make it happen
>>
>>3618553
This is what we would call "a massive fucking stomp"
Emiya and friends just don't have the sort of power you need to deal with that sort of bullshit.
>>
>>3618569
Is that the keikaku then? Secretly amass servant allies and then reveal them in the final hour to betray them?
>>
You know I think I have a guess as to Bahsakah's true name. May not be it at all but

REJOICE!
>>
>>3618581
we also should get the einzberns on our side seeing as that's our best bet to supply enough mana for everyone
>>
I love the idea that these conversations represent Alberich's thoughts as he tells Rin about the Grail War.
"Before I became a Master in Caster's sacrificial Grail War, I met two other Master candidates. By working together, we were able to evade Caster's familiars and escape the city."
>Now that I think about it, Ogawara sure was a feminine-looking guy. I wonder what he would've looked like in women's clothing.
"Because we had walked into his trap the Master of Rider believed he had us in his power. Fortunately, we managed to turn the tables and escape."
>Oh, man, it sure was funny when I kicked Keiseki's head off. He was headed for disaster!
"...and so we decided to help Emiya-san put a stop to the Holy Grail War, and came here tonight I. Order to discuss how best to accomplish that goal."
>I'm going to have to kill all four of these people, but their mystic energy is certainly dangerously high. Even this woman Tohsaka is quite strong, though within human limits. How can I go about it without putting Ayaka or myself at risk?
>>
>>3618581
Or we just cut Rider in half when nobody is expecting it and withdraw.
It's up to them if they want to go after us.
Circe should theoretically be better at magic than Medea and nobody in Shirou's gang has magic resistance.
>>
>>3618597
>Alberich is 50/50 on whether or not to CONSUME the Emiyas
jej
>>
I don't realllly want to kill Shirou and pals because it would upset Taiga and Illya.
>>
>>3618597
Alberich is such a noble, galant, peerless and carring knight. Always thinking about Ayaka`s safety, a true Saber indeed.
>>
I wonder if Alberich and Kotomine would get along.
He'd get along with Shirou very easily if they didn't have opposed goals.
>>
>>3618597
>I. Order
Mobile is a curse. Should read "in order".
>>
>tfw trying to figure out a way to deal with Shirou and pals non-lethally and remember that Shirou can trace Rule Breaker to delete any geas, which we in character have no way of knowing
FUCK.
So if we Geas we gotta give them all the extra order to kill if they take action towards removing it.
Zouken could manage to fuck up Rule Breaker and have it kill Kuzuki, at least.
>>
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>>3618649
Just portal them so we can make our wish or portal ourselves to do it.
>>
>>3618649

Look on the brightside, no chance Emiya would trace HGS or Kenotis.

So anyone on board with my theory of Berserker being Kotomine? I sure hope it is

Side note should we be able to actually get skills and NPs from previous Akeldama participants via introspection. Would it be possible to fuse their NPs together into something new? I wanna go for Hagia Sophia+Queen Anne's Revenge for a flying IN fortress
>>
>>3618759
>No

>I hope so, but it's more likely that as their essences were incorporated into Alberich conceptually they were annihilated
>>
>>3618759
>>3618772
Sweets already told us that we can get only pick stuff from them that we are familiar with. So no bootleg Charlemagne flying fortress sadly.
>>
>>3618759
>no chance Emiya would trace HGS or Kenotis.
Because he would be dead?

Why would Kotomine be a servant with a defensive NP?
More likely it's Rasputin by himself.

I don't think we understood those NPs well enough, though a flying fortress like that would probably be EX rank bullshit.

>>3618740
Sure, that might work.
>>
>>3618792

Well what NPs DO we understand well enough outside of Circe and Adelheid's?

>>3618787

And thus my dreams have been dashed against the stones
>>
>>3618802
We can do a crappy copy of Archer's gun.
>>
>>3618802
The Queen Anne's Revenge is actually one of the few you can try to copy, although it would be of dubious use to you in this secretive war.
>>
>>3618802
Look at the bright side we can still make this thing a reality:
>The Last Trump, Kosmos Ouroboros
>EX-Rank Anti-Populace Noble Phantasm
>As the symbol of the Gods' hatred for the world that cast them out and slew the target of their favor, this horn can be blown only as Alberich is dying.
>Upon its activation, Kosmos Ouroboros calls the mother of all life, Tiamat, forth to destroy her children and prepare Earth for a new form of life.
>>
>>3618837
Poor Antagliano.
>>3618843
It's not exactly what I'd call practical though.
It's just a killswitch for humanity.
>>
>>3618857
Though it would be hilarious to use if we got Diarmuid'd.
>>
>>3618859
The ultimate ability to call Mom for help if they play dirty.

But this thing and our new sword really makes me wonder that would twisted Orlando Furioso ended up as.
>>
>>3618883
Probably not very good.
I want the Doomsday horn but sort of don't.
It's more of an eternal "fuck you" than anything else unless Tiamat heals us or something.
Then we get to watch humanity die.
Fuck em.
>>
>>3618911
I would love to read Bad End where Kosmos Ouroboros gets to be used. Just to watch entire thing unfolding and realisation of our killers that have they done. Cool scene but dead weight otherwise.
>Probably not very good.
Swords synergy was great and Olifant powers up to world ending NP so it is safe to assume mutation of Orlando Furioso would gave us more than just Mad Enhancement with stats boost. Although I am not denying that we are doing much better with our reason intact.
>>
So Sweets, would it be correct to assume the reason behind our B rank luck is because of what we are?
>>
>>3618958
That's correct. Luck is often interpreted as a measure of divine favor; whether or not that's true in all cases, it is certainly true that you were blessed at birth with abnormally good fortune.
>>
>>3618955
Yeah, it's such a shame that for as cool as it is, it's just a fancier than usual Dead End.
The theoretical FGO villain Alberich would totally have it and use it though.
>>
>>3618981
Sweets, can you spoil us and tell that would happen if we were to copy and use Volksgemeinschaft?
I wonder how Ogawara talk earlier, Adelheids case and our place in Gods and Judas schemes comes together for it.
>>
>>3618981
>it is certainly true that you were blessed at birth with abnormally good fortune.
>birth
Ha.
>>
>>3618981
>>3619010

I think "conception" might be a better word than birth
>>
>>3619010
>>3619023
Only one way to find out. Check our foreskin.
>>
>>3619023
Would Conceptualization not be the most fitting term?
>>
>>3618985
"Master of Chaldea... to think you'd be able to defeat me. It seems my battle ends here."
Alberich falls to one knee, supporting himself with his blade.
"...but if you believe this is the end of your battle, you are a fool. If history cannot enter a new Age, so be it. Itn that case, let it return to the beginning!"
A silver horn appears in his hand, radiating incredible magic energy! Is that a new Noble Phantasm? But it seems even more like a ball of power than the grail!
"Lament your foolishness and die, Master of Chaldea! Kosmos Ouroboros!"
Alberich puts the horn to his lips and blows a high, clear note that resounds across the hellish battlefield. As it fades, so does his presence. But the next moment...
"Senpai, look at that!"
[Is that a...]
[The sky is...]
"A gigantic portal is opening in the sky!"
Mash us right. The entire sky looks like it's cracking open, and a horribly familiar liquid is pouring through.
"This magical signature.. Impossible! It's Beast II again!"
"What? But I thought she could only appear during the Age of Gods, in Babylonia!"
"Whatever that Noble Phantasm was, it must have overturned that rule somehow."
"That means that stuff falling through the portal is the primordial sea of chaos, coming down like rain! Senpai, we have to find shelter!"
AaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa!
>>
>>3619047
Beautiful, it brought a tear to my eye.
>>
>>3619047

15/11 Good shit. However since speaking of Tiamat that begs the question.

What would we be to the rest of the Beasts? Namely Goetia and Primate Murder since Kiara would fuck us regardless

I now just thought of the greatest combination of NPs for Alberich (Rider) Queen Anne's Revenge+Mahbarata
>>
FGO's writing is so easy to parody. I hate it. The dialogue "choices" are unbelievable.

Primate Murder probably wouldn't care about you since you're not really human. Goetia wanted to destroy the whole surface of the earth over all of history, so you sort of fall under that umbrella. On the other hand, since this takes place in the near future, events are happening after his cut-off point.
>>
>>3619167
Basically the FGO dialogue options usually include saying what you just saw or heard like you're Solid Snake or just a general affirmative statement.
That's it.
Ok sometimes you might have an out of place quip as on option or being generally confused, but not often.
And it's not like your choice will affect anything except maybe 1 line of dialogue.

Somehow, a master with all the personality of wet cardboard has managed to befriend dozens of servants.
>>
>>3619195
Don't forget the best FGO dialogue options, where the second choice is the end of the sentence begun in the first choice.
>>
>>3619238
God damn it why is it such a low effort Kusoge?
It earns billions!
The core gameplay is bad
The protagonist makes Sieg look like Kiritsugu in terms of depth
The Story is dreadful up until America, which is slightly more tolerable than the previous four. Camelot and Babylon are decent but that's still hours of playtime going through shit.
They ruined Blackbeard and multiple other servants.
Pseudo-Servants make 0 sense in the context of the setting.
The main cast isn't likeable at all.
Saber is the final boss of like 3 singularities.
Immense grinding
Rome was an especially terrible slog and I like Nero!
>>
>>3619301
>expecting anything good from a mobage
>let alone gacha
>>
>>3619301
I don't understand why they don't try to make it more enjoyable.I didn't finish Shinjuku and Agartha is the first singularity I'm not playing at all.
The core gameplay loop is just so goddamn bad. Writing this quest has made me examine lore more closely too, which really drives home just how awful it is; they constantly ruin previous canon and have no respect for the original work or world materials.
Then the only other part of Fate that's being continued is the godawful Moon Cell timeline. It's so depressing.
>>
>>3619325
Never forget this absolute fucking disgrace of a design.
Just looking at this worsens my mood.
"Why?"
That's all it brings to mind.
The concept is dumb to start with.
But even still, why is he standing in a generic dungeon and not an edgier UBW or something?

Don't worry QM. Surely Waver's adventures will be decent.
>>
>>3619325

Look on the brightside,FGO for as shit as it is. Still gave us based King Hassan
>>
>>3619372
>>3619374
In any case, FGO being shit is part of what motivated me to write this, so that's something. Also it's produced a ton of great fanart.
>>
>>3619374
>Grand Servants
Oh Christ don't remind me.
What was wrong with Counter Guardians?
>>
>>3619401
Also, Solomon is a dumb asshole and I'm glad he's dead. He could have easily prevented the story from ever taking place.
>>
>>3619401

Hey I'm not trying to discuss them, I'm trying to make mention of the Hassan of Hassans
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>>3619427
Sure, I guess he's fairly ok
But Grand Servants are just a silly concept.
>Fate GRAND Order
>Grand Servants are major plot points
>4 years after release, 2 of 7 Grand Servants are revealed
What the fuck is the point?
>>
>>3619427
>Assassin, but he's a gigantic knight who wears heavy armor and uses a claymore
Putting aside the fact that it's a blatantly European armor design for the founder of an order that's mainly famous for terrorizing the Crusaders, it's also thematically at odds with the class itself. The fact that they have the balls to call this un-stealthy motherfucker the greatest Assassin in the class just makes it even worse. Make him a Saber, with Presence Concealment as a personal skill; he still gets to be special and unique, and isn't a self-contradictory mess.
>>
>>3619456
What do you mean an Assassin shouldn't only be 30cm shorter than Berserker Heracles?
Clearly, his massive size and loud clanking noises are an asset to him when assassinating people.

Also, both Grand Casters are somehow shit at incantations and frequently mess up.
>>
>>3619488
Sometimes I forget that True Assassin in FSN is 7 foot tall.
God damn it.
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>>3619488
Don't you see the brilliance in it? Nobody will notice you if there is nobody left to notice.
The stealth employed by a lot of rpg groups in their adventures.
>>
It's as if they released a Grand Saber Servant who uses a polearm, and said, "The fact that he can swing that thing around like a sword truly makes him the greatest swordsman!"
>>
Wait, better. It's like they released a Servant who uses a club, but cuts things with it, and called that Grand Saber. He's so much the ultimate Saber that anything he holds, even this blunt club, has the concept of "sword" imposed on it.
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>>3619559
Or like how assassins don't dress like assassins, and instead try to blend into crowds as normal looking people.
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>>3619580
*laughs in Excaliburs*
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>>3619580
>>3619580
Just wait until the first Lancer is some neanderthal armed with a pointy stick, or an Archer that was an early human that knew how to throw rocks.
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>>3619593
Is it just me, or does Excalibur look weirdly small there?
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>>3619566
Wait. But Emiya uses swords and still calls himself an Archer.
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>>3619605
Sure, but he's not Grand Archer.
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>>3619600
I think it only ever looks big because it's primary user is a womanlet.
>>3619598
Grand Lancer is Cain, a pointy rock counts as a spear.
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>>3619609
At this point it wouldn't even surprise me if he was.
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>>3619611
Including the hilt, it's 115cm. A sword that's 3'9" long seems pretty big to me, although it is on the small side for a formal longsword.
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>>3619621
Then again this is Richard, so the sword might only be in the process of turning into an Excalibur.
Richard is only 5'10" himself.
>>
>>3619621
To be fair richards sword is a fake, so it should be a bit off
>>
"It's horrible," Emiya says in a low voice. "More people have died already than in the Fuyuki fire."

"What?" Rin's eyes widen in shock. "I haven't heard about any kind of disaster on that scale. What happened?"

"I believe I ought to be the one to begin the story," you say, "since I witnessed the first great killing of this Holy Grail War. It was nothing so easily observed as a fire, Miss Tohsaka."

"Alright then, what happened?"

"Caster's Noble Phantasm, Akeldama: an enclosed world, cut off from space and time, to which he summoned over a thousand people for a grand sacrificial ritual, meant to empower him immensely. I was one of these, brought into Akeldama as an ordinary human. Through extraordinary circumstances, however, I and a small group of allies were able to slay Caster. In a final vindictive act of service to his Master, he transferred the accumulated power to me as he died, and bound me in his place as a Servant. Those unfortunate sacrifices constituted the first great loss of this War." Emiya maintains his grave expression as you retell the story, but his wife gives you that same oddly commiserating look as before.

"...were any of them magi?" Rin asks. Her face has turned ashen at your explanation of the bloody event, and her voice is low, horrified.

"I don't know the exact proportion," you answer, keeping up a perhaps unwisely calm tone, "but some of us were magi, and Caster called his sacrifices from around the world. Has there been a notable disappearance since Wednesday night?"

"Several people at the Clock Tower vanished that night," Rin says gravely, "but no-one thought to link that to the Holy Grail War. I'll need to write to the investigators and tell them about this. Are there any material traces left of Caster's ritual that I could analyze?"

"Being a Noble Phantasm, it vanished with Caster's death," you say quickly. The last thing you need is the Mages' Association getting involved in an investigation of your creation, and you're sure Ayaka wouldn't appreciate the scrutiny either. Fortunately, Emiya steps in to bring the conversation back to the Holy Grail War.

"Things haven't stopped with Caster's death, either," he says. "Another Servant is attacking people for energy, we think. There's been a house burned down in the area every night since Wednesday, and in each case the family disappeared completely. Rider and I found traces of magical energy in one of the ruins, but we were forced to retreat by an attack from Berserker."

"A Servant managed to chase the two of you away?" Rin sounds disbelieving. "Don't tell me he's as powerful as the last War's Berserker."

"Similar, yes," Emiya says with a nod. "Berserker has some kind of powerful defense keeping him from being wounded, as well as ridiculous power and speed."
>>
"For my part," you interject, "I have encountered three other Servants: the Rider of this Holy Grail War, whom I dispatched; Archer, who I did not see but who interceded to ensure that I did not harm Rider's Master after the Servant was defeated; and this War's other Saber, who apparently also fought in the previous Holy Grail War." Rin's eyes widen at this last mention, but she says nothing.

"She proved too much for me," you continue, "but I did learn the identity of her Master: a magus from the Clock Tower by the name of William Harris. Are you familiar with the man?"

"Him," Rin says with a sigh. "Yes, I know about Harris. He's the most dangerous Sealing Designation Enforcer in the association today, supposedly, and well known for killing his targets in brutal ways. I'd heard he was sent to open the path to the Origin for the Clock Tower, but to think he wound up with Saber." She trails off for a moment, considering the situation, then turns to Emiya. "You're right, Shirou. This really is horrible." A depressed silence settles over the table following her proclamation.

"Well," Sakura says, not content to leave everyone languishing, "if you're all finished discussing the War, why don't we get started on dinner, Senpai?" Looking up at her words, you realize the it's gotten later; it's perhaps six, now. Emiya follows his wife, and the two begin preparing dinner together.

>[ ] Speak with Rin (Write in subject)

>[ ] Speak with Rider (Write in subject)

>[ ] Speak with Ayaka (Write in subject)

>[ ] Wait in silence.
>>
>>3619747
>[ ] Speak with Rin
Inquire about the other grail wars, and the Einzbern who seem to continually keep organising them, and also whom the vast majority of people seem to mistake us for.

Might as well get some more outsider intel on the Einzbern that we wouldn't be able to learn easily by talking with Lily. Rin is the first non-servant who has realised we weren't one at a glance.
>>
>>3619779
>>3619747
Sure, this.
>>
>Another Servant is attacking people for energy, we think. There's been a house burned down in the area every night since Wednesday, and in each case the family disappeared completely.
So does someone else think that this sounds like a servant without master sustaining themselves through human souls?
I think a servant just powering up would use more humans in one go and not do this with this kind of regularity.
>>
>>3619747
>[ ] Speak with Rin
Ask her about the goings on at the clocktower and if any of the people that disappeared returned.
She already knows that we had allies, so we might as well ask if she knows anything about our tiddy magician.
We also might should ask her about what >>3619779 said, as well as any more info about what the Clock Tower plan to do with this war if she's can tell us.
The more info we have on both her and the Einzberns, the easier it will be to buddy up with them later.
>>
>>3619821
If you want to ask her about Truvi specifically, she doesn't know anything as Luvia ducked out of the mission for some unknown family crisis.
And they wouldn't have disappeared and then reappeared
They simply wouldn't have disappeared at all, Akeldama was instant, remember?
But sure, it might be an idea to ask her if she knows anything about the only other surviving magus from Akeldama.
>>
>>3619747
>>[ ] Speak with Rin (Write in subject)
I want to ask her about our magi buddy.
>>
>>3619817
I wonder what servant we know would have a tendency to burn shit down and have no issues with eating people's souls...
>>
>>3619779

This here works >>3619779 >>3619821

And as for my bit to throw things into a dialogue sense.

>"Ms. Tohsaka, seeing as you're a Sorcerer's apprentice perhaps you could help with my previous master's notes. He had been working on transmuting the Five Elements, but unfortunately he was killed by Harris. A mind keen as your's would be a boon to dissecting the notes to put them into effect."
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>>3619848
>Every night since Wednesday
Oh fuck me I completely missed that part.
Well, if Adelheid and Circe were partially incarnated, then it stands to reason only Adelheid would need to go around eating souls.
Circe could set up at a leyline and just use that magical energy.
>>
>>3619779
I could swear I've had someone tell you who the Einzberns are already.
>>
>>3619879
I think it was Truvi all the way back in Akeldama, but Rin, not being a teenager, and having fought in a Grail War organised by them, would obviously have more information on them
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>>3619839
>And they wouldn't have disappeared and then reappeared
>They simply wouldn't have disappeared at all, Akeldama was instant, remember?
God, could you imagine how weird that would be?
Either way, there is a possibility A very slight possibility based on how Rin talked, but still. that it was Truvi that tipped them on the possible disappearances, to begin with.
That said, on second thought this line of action might lead to some unintended consequences via Clock Tower agents seeking out Truvi, and revealing info that might put us at a disadvantage.
Hmmmm, yeah this may be a risk we might not wanna take.

>>3619879
We have, but I assumed that Rin might have more details on the Einzberns as an experienced Magi.
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>>3619848
Of course how cpuld we be so blind, it's Nero!
>>
>>3619888
Luvia had to abandon the mission for a family crisis.
Because of their sorcery trait, it's possible that Judas got a two for the price of one on the Edelfelts and only Truvi made it back, a disappearance on it's own wouldn't likely cause Luvia to suddenly abandon a mission as they would likely spend a week or so searching, but a disappearance and an explanation behind it definitely would.
>>3619891
U M U
M
U
>>
>>3619888
>That said, on second thought this line of action might lead to some unintended consequences via Clock Tower agents seeking out Truvi, and revealing info that might put us at a disadvantage.
Yeah, let's not put Truvi on the spot. We can confirm the survival of our compatriots by calling for either Kikuko or Matsuda.
>>
>>3619879
Hey boss, was Truvi even there for the big reveal with Caster, or was she in the Bunker with the rest of them?

>>3619913
Hmmmm, that still doesn't make me feel any better about the current goings-on.
>>
>>3619921
Who cares
Our waifus might be alive.
We know that fire is totally something Adelheid would do.
the "bad luck" might even be a side effect of Circe siphoning magical energy.
>>
>>3619933
...
>everything bad in this grail war is our fault, one way or the other.
Fuck.
>>
>>3619921
>Hey boss, was Truvi even there for the big reveal with Caster, or was she in the Bunker with the rest of them?
You had Caster teleport her out so she could learn the truth.
>>
>>3619980
Buck-naked too, iirc.
>>
>>3619980
Damn.
Our need to be transparent and good to our allies potentially fucks us over in the long run once again.

If it isn't clear by now I don't think asking about Truvi directly is a good idea at this point. But I'd still like to learn more details about what the Clock Tower is up to if we can weasel that info outta her.
>>
>>3619997
Alternatively, we've made an ally of the Edelfelts for life, who knows?
>>
>>3620007
Eh, maybe an acquaintance. We almost dipped into a Low-Affinity Bad End once.
>>
>>3619989
She was wearing a nightgown!
>>
>>3620012
Yeah, but if Akeldama killed her sister (which may or may not have happened) they were like THIS close to losing their magic crest.
>>
Grand Saber is going to be Eve (Saberface) using Adam's rib as a sword

Trust me my dad works at Typemoon
>>
>>3620077
>dad
You almost had me but you fucked up at the end. Tough luck, kiddo.
>>
>>3620017
For a girl with her apparent proportions that's not saying much.
>>
Guys.
If the cause of these fires is Adelheid, you know that the Emiya crew is gunning for her, right?
This is seriously not good.
I guess we could see about phone numbers to contact them if we locate the servant.
We can't exactly be seen wandering around with the Emiya crew in case the organisers get suspicious of us.
We should try to have them remain at their house for now.
>>
>Anyone seriously thinks Sweets will have Circe or Adelheid involved with the Grail War
Anons, we're gonna have to make him give us back our past.
>>
>>3620133
It's a plausible explanation for sudden fires starting up on the day that Akeldama ended, leaving houses completely empty and destroying all evidence.
Especially knowing that fire is definitely in her arsenal.
And that she wouldn't have an issue with eating souls.
What's your explanation, considering all servants but Lancer are now accounted for somewhat?
>>
>>3620142
>What's your explanation
Servant/Magus dickery anon. It's really not that complicated. (Unless it is). We don't know what Archer, Lancer, Saber, or Assassin are doing atm and we definitely don't know what Berseker's, Lancer's, Saber's, or Archer's masters are doing. Wishful thinking is a waste of time.
>>
>>3620154 #
Let's go through our options, remember anon, fire and misfortune
>Saber: wouldn't agree to such tactics
>Archer: Seems to be good aligned, unlikely to agree
>Lancer: unknown
>Rider: ded
>Caster: ded
>Assassin: likely to be Lily's servant who would have no need of mana
>Berserker: seemed to be investigating the fires

ADDITIONALLY, with a fresh grail, no Evil aligned servants should've been summoned. So there should really be no soul consuming.
These events started occuring on the day that Akeldama ended
>>
>>3620168
>You assume much of a Saber who serves the Magus Killer yet again, but I'll give you this one
>I will remind you that Medusa is good aligned and didn't do jack about Shinji's bullshit in the Fate route. Good=/=unwilling to provide for the murder of innocents in the Fate universe
>Not an argument
>Correct
>Technically a part of Alberich, but largely correct
>Truvi? Wtf? You mean Lily, right? Well whatever, we still don't know what he's all about and it might be for non-mana reasons
>Already ruled out, so yeah

You also don't account for any of the masters in your post.
>>
>>3620179
Anon, I already corrected the post.
Rider in FSN was kind of being forced into everything for Sakura's sake. Also, isn't she somebody who you should normally not be able to summon because of the monster thing?
Also Chaotic Good characters are always fairly cunty

No Magi would use such explosively obvious methods to gather magical energy, as it risks church intervention.

Archer is pretty obviously lawful or neutral good, a chaotic good likely would've taken a shot at Ayaka so that makes him less likely.
>>
>>3620179
>You also don't account for any of the masters in your post.
The fires were caused by a Servant.
>>
>>3620203
If I'm right about this, we absolutely must not get the Emiya's to come with us.
I don't want our reunion interrupted
And if Rider tries to stalk us then the bitch dies.
>>
>>3620218

You're forgetting the actually description given of Berserker as a hand to hand fighter with a defensive NP. It's not Adelheid anon, stop freaking out.

Furthermore where the hell did you get the idea of Circe feeding on people would leading to this? We have little to no evidence AT ALL of the actual identities of the remaining Servants save Artoria. Just calm down and stop letting your longing to see Circe and Adelheid again cloud your thoughts with tragedy.

If anything I'm still of the belief that Berserker is Kotomine. Lancer, Archer, Assassin and Bahsakah are for now unknowns along side the masters of the former most and latter most.
>>
>>3620243
What?
The Berserker they fought was clearly investigating.

The Berserker isn't Kotomine, dude. Shirou would probably recognise Bajiquan even if it was possible for fucking Kotomine, a man who never went berserk to exist as a heroic spirit in the Berserker container.
There would be two Berserkers anon.
>>
I want to see an act 3 where we get summoned into FGO and use diplomacy and tactics to corrupt Chadela from within.
>>
>>3620243
And as for Circe, as an immensely talented AoG magus, she would be tapping into leylines and that fucks with humans.
>>
>>3620258
>It's an Alberich finds the unlocked draw where they keep all the Holy Grails episode
>>
>>3620258
>Summoned into Sweets' Chaldea
>Master of Chaldea is a shut-in who stopped trying to save the world halfway through Shinjuku and just summons new Servants
What are you going to corrupt, anon?
>>
>>3620269
Take the opportunity to mock Chaldea Blackbeard for being a pussy.
>>
Speaking of GO, which Singularities do you guys think he would do well/poorly in?
>>
>>3620304
Camelot, just to style over the Knights of the Round (after hopefully learning Ayaka's Ritual) and then facing the Lion King with their power.
Then Clonking Rhongo with Heil and deleting the singularity.
>>
>>3620304

Better question, who'd join Alberich in his quest to bring about the new Age of Gods alongside Circe and Adelheid?
>>
>>3620332
The Gods, probably.
Medusa gets bullied into helping by her sisters.
Probably a few others we could convince.
>>
It seems like we're all set on talking to Rin, but we're divided on what to talk to her about.

>>3619779
This is probably a good idea. We got a vague idea from Truvi that the Einzberns make fake people and do mean shit to them, but that's pretty much all we know.
>>3619821
I'm not sure whether or not we should ask about Truvi. In character, we don't know that the "Luviagelita" mentioned by Rin is an Edelfelt, so we wouldn't be able to surmise that it's not likely Rin would know about Truvi since she doesn't know much about the "family emergency". But we do know that Rin is a Sorcerer's apprentice and therefore a big shot, so it's less likely she'd know about Truvi since Truvi isn't a fellow big shot. I'm not sure how Alberich would weigh the risks and rewards of revealing our connection with Truvi. While everyone is aware that we're an unusual Servant, if word gets to Truvi she could expose us as a calculating, murderous son of a bitch and also slander us by calling us a bad partner.
>>3619865
I think we should hold off on revealing our previous Master's big magical project, both because we don't know Rin very well yet and because I don't think Ayaka would like us handing over her brother's research and family secrets to some chick we just met without at least consulting her first.

As for the possibility of Circe and Adelheid still being around:
The bad luck is a bit hard to tell. I'm leaving that one alone for now.
I can see the houses being Adelheid, though. We know she burns through magical energy like no tomorrow, and she could very well just not care to have anyone else as a Master, so killing people nightly seems plausible. Further, if she's trying to send us a signal to find her, then I can see her burning down the houses of the people she kills so as to be noticeable. What doesn't add up is the complete disappearance of the families. Adelheid would want to be thorough, sure, but it's hard to imagine her leaving no trace whatsoever when her kit is so prone to splattering her victims.

>>3620316
Would clonking Camelot Rhongo fix the singularity or fuck human history for good?
>>
>>3620358
Honestly who cares, it means we get to bully God Seibah.

It's possible Adelheid is purposely incinerating corpses. Maybe covering her tracks somewhat? Not like she can't flammenwerfer them. Regardless we should go alone after tracking the culprit just in case.
>>
>>3620358
>I'm not sure whether or not we should ask about Truvi.
I thought about it more, it's not.

As for as "in character" goes, I just made the assumption that most Magi from the Clock Tower had at least a passing knowledge of each other.
In fact, I keep on forgetting that Luviagelita and Truvi are connected at all.
>>
>>3620358
Hey, you're back! Any thoughts on the "Ogawara and Matsuda as Servants" discussion from earlier?

>Would clonking Camelot Rhongo fix the singularity or fuck human history for good?
The second one. As I've mentioned before, hitting Rhongomyniad with Heiligöffnungschwert would destroy the world, and the singularities are about stopping that from happening.
>>
>>3620358
As for Truvi, why would she call us a bad partner?
We honoured that alliance to the very end and we were nothing but courteous towards her in every interaction.
>>
>>3620384
>Goddess Rhongomyniad can't risk fighting us and has to flee
Hahaha
Alberich, what a guy.
>>
I'm going to agree with >>3619779 and >>3620358, while still keeping Truvi out of it.
>>
>>3620379
I'm skeptical about the Flammenwerfer's ability to totally incinerate a human body. WWII flamethrowers basically chucked flaming goop at people, which is great for setting people on fire or clearing a building but isn't likely to turn a human body, bones and all, to pure ash.

>>3620380
Yeah, it's probably not a good idea.

>>3620384
If Matsuda were to become a Servant as he was at the end of CA, he'd be Berserker for sure. Depending on his development as a protagonist, I could see him ending up either as either Lancer or the fabled Frontal Assault Assassin. I feel like he'd be more attracted to the natural range advantage of polearms in combat and less focused on the sword as a symbol of power. I can see a potential Archer if he'd been paired with Clint and aspired to the same sort of gun-toting roachery.
As for Ogawara... I want to say he got the short end of the stick, but he'd be both cute and in an insanely bullshit class. A few lessons on manipulation and leveraging cuteness from Kikuko and (s)he'd be about as dangerous as a female Caster can get.

>>3620392
I highly doubt she's gotten over the death of Lancer, especially not if her sister was killed in Akeldama and vanished. As far as I know, she still blames us for that. I'm pretty sure the only way to salvage our relationship with her would be if she flies over, kills Ayaka, forces us to contract with her and is impressed by our performance.
>>
>>3620384
Okay but what if we don't hit it with the sword but kinda just mess with it a little bit?
>>
>>3618441
I do like the idea of pretty much going "Oh no! I have to get the grail away from here. I will totally sacrifice myself to take this into IN space."

In which we use it and then hop on out of IN Space. Saying something like maybe the gods granted us a miracle.
>>
>>3619047
If anything it could be a lost belt into where the master is trying to get things popping off.
>>
>>3620454
How, specifically?
>>
>>3620525
Unless of course Rin already has a way to get rid of it. Which is not unlikely since she has specifically prepared to deal with this war.
>>
>>3620635
That is why we need to find a way to keep Rin busy. Not outright kill her but just keep her far away as it happens. Lets make it seem that us using the grail to reincarnate in IN space looks like a nice good end scenario.
>>
>>3620651
Well us going in and coming back part.
>>
>>3620651
That's easier said than done. We would need a distraction we can use very fast which forces Rin to take care of it. And there is still the risk that the Emiyas would prefer the experienced mage's solution over our improvised idea, so if they can wait for Rin to take care of it they might.

I hope we find Circe. Her NP would be so useful for us.
>>
>>3620735
So the ideal scenario we need to have that while its tricking the Emiyas it won't lead up to us killing them.Watch that they are completely fine with us using it once to reincarnate and then destroying it.

>Rin:"Shirou! me, Sakura, and Rider can deal with this. You go destroy the grail!"
>Fast forward to Ayaka, Shirou, and Alberich literally standing infront of the grail.
>Ayaka: "Oh no! It has gained so much magical energy that it has the power to destroy all of Tokyo and its about to explode! If we destroy it now it would set it off as well!"
>Alberich: "I see what must be done. Take care Miss Ayaka."
>IN Space we go
>Use our wish to reincarnate
>Magically come out after a day or two saying its a miracle granted by the gods

The only problem is to have a threat that would cause Rin, Sakura, and Rider some issues and we have to make it convincing that the grail this time has so much power.
>>
>>3620822
>wasting the wish on reincarnation
If we just suck up to persephone and hades we could probably get a real body
>>
>>3621033
We gotta get the whole crew properly incarnated.
Circe, Adelheid and maybe Saber Alter too.
What excuse do we use to track down "Probably Adelheid" alone? The Holy Church watching us?
And if we've found Adelheid, Circe must be somewhere too.
Should probably check out Yumigawa Classic before she murders him.
>>
With the possibility of Circe being around, dealing with the Emiya crew nonlethally is substantially easier.
We can just have her mindwipe them of the events of this war should we want to.

Though no hesitation to cut any of them down if they are an imminent threat to Adelheid.
Sorry Shirou, you're a good man but not like Sakura hasn't eaten a few hundred people.
In fact, we could probably kidnap Sakura if we wanted to force them out of the war.
Tell them she'll be safely released after the wish. They can then make their choice.

Getting Ayaka to agree to this might be more difficult.
>>
>>3621056
While the idea that it's Adelheid is a good one, there is one problem with that:
We're a Servant, so we would need to take magical energy from our own Master to supply them -- and seeing as Adelheid put a lot of strain on us back in Akeldama, Vaisset should've died long ago trying to maintain three Servants.
>>
>>3621260
It's possible they were partially incarnated and have no Master.
Only needing magical energy to survive.
We did manage to fuck their reliance on the grail up all the way back in Akeldama.
>>
>>3621276
And, there should be a lot of energy possible for Circe to siphon now.
If worst comes to worst, Lily is an effectively infinite battery.
>>
>>3621276
>>3621279
>partially incarnated
This seems like a bit of a stretch, since there has never once been a "partial" incarnation in canon (and there probably cannot be since incarnation is having one's body be changed from Ether to flesh), and anyway we still acted as their Master. Judas claimed back in Akeldama that they might be bound to us because we cut them off from the Grail, but recent events have proven him to be a fucking piece of fucking shit.
Ultimately, we'll probably have to talk to him for leads.
>>
>>3621300
>never been a partial incarnation
Who is Gilgamesh?
Besides, it's either that or worse Yumigawa is NTRing us.
If he is though it shouldn't take much to convince them.
>>
>>3621304
>Who is Gilgamesh?
A proper incarnation?
>>
>>3621304
Jesus Christ, poor Yumigawa.
Can you imagine our servants reactions to the short Japanese highschooler with no memory of them and no emotions at all claiming to be Rushorou?
Additionally, his circuits would be shit if they exist at all, he's not a 6ft tall Einzbern looking superhuman and he just wants to live a quiet life.
Circe would hopefully figure out it's not us pretty quickly.
After our conversation with Adelheid, she would too.
>>3621307
Not quite.
A proper incarnation wouldn't need to drink orphan juice for magical sustenance.
It's likely we'll need Liliesviel's assistance to achieve a true incarnation.
>>
>>3621312
>A proper incarnation wouldn't need to drink orphan juice for magical sustenance.
Oh, complete material III states that Gilgamesh was completely incarnated by the mud, so while he could survive without a Master he probably needed the orphan juice to use Gate of Babylon.

However, an incarnation brought about by the Grail would probably give us IA EX.
It might also erase Conceptual biology since our body would be made of flesh.
>>
>>3621324
Interesting.
I doubt we would lose our conceptual biology from incarnation.
We've had it since before becoming a servant and Yumigawa was pretty fleshy back then.
>>
The real question is: What would come of gaining Conceptual Biology EX?
>>
>>3621329
Magic Resistance: A and complete poison resistance?
Maybe resistance to stuff like petrification or other abilities that attempt to modify our body against our will, too.
Possibly even Magical Energy Rank A.
It's a bit of a mystery bag.
>>
>>3621333
It might also rank our physical Parameters up.
>>
>>3621351
Well, if Alberich becomes even more conceptual and less physical I think it might improve the efficiency and overall effectiveness of how well Alberich can utilize Ayaka's sacrifices
>>
>>3621358
It would probably be a good idea to try at least.
If we kill Outer Berserker next we should yoink his defences to add onto our armour.
>>
>>3619047
I can honestly play this scene in my imagination, such a treat.
>>
>>3621373
Depends on the nature of them. I'm not entirely averse to it, but if it meshes badly then I'll pass.
>>
>>3621433
If it's one of those "Negate anything below A-rank" it's 100 percent worth getting.
>>
>>3621438
Only if it meshes with Alberich's archetypes. If it translates to "negates anything below C Rank" it won't exactly be worth it.
>>
>>3621373
>add onto our armour
I would prefer to use it to give Kenótis same treatment we did to our sword. Provided it have synergy.
>>
>>3621449
>Alberich gets Godhand
>need to kill him 1053 times to put him down for good
>>
>>3621460
It will be harder to find a kino match for Kenótis. "Magic Sword" is an endlessly more common thing than "cloth that tears rent inbetween realms". But if nothing comes up, a direct empowerment wouldn't be bad at all.
>>
Do you think Alberich would get along with Enkidu?
They are somewhat similar in origin.
>>
>>3621491
Idunno anon, I think Enkidu only really has eyes for Gil. We would probably be regarded higher than humans or animals, since we're basically born straight from Tiamat's womb, initially at least.
>>
The thing that Enkidu may find issue with is that people want Alberich to be uncaring --some even spiteful-- towards humanity.
>>
>>3621528
Oh no, he cares about humanity.
He has humans he cares for and finds somewhat beautiful, in the case of Ayaka.
Then there's Lily, who deserves smile protection.
It's just that Humans are kind of leading the world to it's death with their greed and they are inherently all worse than humans prior.
If Shirou makes it through this war and we make the Gods return, he could possibly become a true hero.
If he wanted to.
>>
>>3621466
The synergy between our sword and Durandal was never only "magic sword". The reason why it worked this well was because Durandal had three divine miracles in it per legend and our sword was a portal to the realm of gods and divine miracles.
>>
>>3621466
Basically what we need to power it up is a lot less specific than cloth that tears rent inbetween realms". A NP which works by redirecting attacks would work well, any kind of divine defense or blessing would probably work too.
>>
>>3621462
>Protagonist gradually acquiring the powers of Alucard
Oh, god! What have I done!
>>
So Sweets, have you considered picking out dedicated running days so you can spend an afternoon running or writing, or do you think the post as you go format simply works better for yah?
>>
>>3621565
Right now I'm spending all of my free time writing. When I'm not writing, I'm at work.
>>
>>3621557
Yeah, powering it up to act as a passive defence would be great. But only if it applies to the entire body.
>>
>>3621568
At work or dealing with other IRL responsibilities, I should say. Still, the point is the same; if I picked out dedicated writing days, it'd just mean I was spending less time writing than I am now.
>>
>>3621563
>What have I done!
You forgot to give us Innocent Monster EX obviously.
>>
>>3621542
Caring for a few humans != caring about humanity as a whole
>>
>>3621563
A good thing.
I guess now we know how Alberich could become bullshit enough to be a main villain of an FGO arc.
>they use some utter bullshit weapon to kill him 1050 times so the player can actually win
>he still summons Tiamat upon defeat
>>3621581
Enkidu doesn't really give a fuck about humans either though.
It likes animals and plants more because it thinks they are existences closer to itself.
>>
>>3621578
>>3621568
>Right now I'm spending all of my free time writing. When I'm not writing, I'm at work.

I think that's why you would set aside days for running.
Not that I don't appreciate your dedication and love the current system, but we don't want you burning out or anything.
>>
>>3621596
>some utter bullshit weapon
You underestimate FGO's repetitiveness. You'd just have to complete the fight 1,050 times.
>>
>>3621596
>Enkidu doesn't really give a fuck about humans either though.
Well, he does care, it's just that they're probably the lowest rung on the ladder.
>>
>>3621607
How would Adelheid work as an enemy/Servant?
>>
>>3621613
Censored in the NA release.
>>
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>>3621616
Specifically censored like this
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>>3621621
Now who's that strange person?
>>
>>3621637
A total mystery, I just can't place their identity...
Is this the effect of a Noble Phantasm?
>>
>>3621621
So you are suggesting we get cool shades and enchant them with Mystic Eyes of Death Perception looted from Shiki?
>>
>>3621613
ST Bustercrit with star absorb out of proportion to her class, BBQQA deck.
The real problem is that FGO treats skills so weirdly compared to the original source. I'd have to rewrite every Servants stat sheet to have them function analogously in the gameplay combat to how they work as a Servant in narrative.
Once again, I hate FGO.
>>
>>3621637
>>3621647
Information Erasure A+ is no joke.
>>
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>>3621655
>This is also FGO'S fault
>>
>>3621655
>current state of Fate
>"What if Illya was a magical girl?" fanfiction that makes no sense and the Illya in it isn't even Illya. Somehow managed to steal Carnival Phantasms hopes of a sequel.
>Mooncell shit which completely rejects the premise of modern fantasy, what the fuck is this, even?
>fucking FGO
>El-Melloi case files trying to save the franchise
Also Strange Fake is good.
It turns out the decent things are the ones in the same/highly similar timeline as F/SN
>>
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>>3621664
>Sweets pops up every other chapter in the Alberich singularity to tell you how much your game sucks
>>
>>3621671
>what the fuck is this, even?
Last Encore was about following a sociopathic protagonist who is not the person who he thinks he is but actually a mass of dead Masters and NPCs jammed together by an outside force.
>>
>>3621692
I wasn't talking about Last Encore.
I was talking about Extra as a whole.
How can the Moon Cell even exist?
Where did Type-Moon go?
How can Arcuied show up in a universe where True Ancestors could not possibly exist?
>>
>>3621686
I now wonder if it's possible to be a Kamen Rider in the Nasuverse and how.
>>
>>3621692
You can't be serious. I haven't even watched it.
>>
>>3621596

No no no no anon, not just that. Allow me to give you the right meals/allies Alberich could make to not just be an arc villain. But a RECURRING villain. Here are who I'd count as most likely among meals and allies

>Meals:
>Romulus: For the might of Rome is a great thing to have indeed flowing through one's veins
>Solomon: Since it's quite frankly deserved, Alberich would probably be very pissed due to him seeing all this come to pass and THEN deciding now is the right time to be a hero.
>Goddess Rhongomyniad: Shutting off the Age of Gods from the world wouldn't sit well. That and the great world ending power of HSG+Rhongo
>Gil: Given that the Golden Cunt has a greater problem with the gods and his sheer arrogance. Well I for one would love to have Kenotis+Enkidu or GoB
>Siegfried: The TRUE Knight with the Morality of a Slave is one that will be eaten on principal. And for invulnerability
>Knights of the Round: Solely to fuck with Artoria
>Ruler Servants: THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE RULER OF THIS WORLD AND IT'S NOT ANY OF THESE

>Allies:
>Ajruna Alter: No idea what the actual deal is with him besides being completely bullshit, but he considering he's made of gods. They could become natural allies, unless AA is for eating more gods then Al will probably eat him first
>The various God Servants: Kinda goes without saying doesn't it?
>The Gorgon Sisters: A chance to become goddesses once again is always something nice
>Angry Manjew: Namely for just a greater chance to kill off mankind in the process of it
>Medea: Help out your aunt Circe and new uncle Alberich so that you'll have just as great magic as before among other things.

Not sure how accurate this is due to my thought processes being a bit iffy due to medicine. But I'd appreciate more help on this to get an idea for things
>>
>>3621699
I know I just cound not resist doing comparison between HAKUNO and Alberich here.
You also forgot cooking anime and manga with its own universe.
>>3621717
100% serious, Sweets. And it was decently done there.
>>
>>3621718
>combine Enkidu+Kenotis
>get Anti-Human NP that renders powerless and binds anyone without Divinity and pulls them through the portal where they are destroyed.
>>
>>3621717
There is nothing new under the sun sweets
>>
>>3621557
You know what would synergize with Kenótis really well? Gate of Skye, since the Land of Shadows is in the Reverse Side of the World.
The only flaw with this otherwise flawless choice is that it's Scathach's NP.
On that note, I'm thinking of some more NP translations.

I think eating Gate of Skye somehow (not only impossible because Scathach is a goddess but also she would rip us a new one) would add its functioning to Kenótis -- when its true name is called (rather than merely accepting magical energy, which allows its current functioning), it sucks everything in front of it into the Realm of Imaginary Numbers, and anyone in its range has to pass a Mana+Luck test to avoid being killed instantly like the original one required.
>>
>>3621717
I don't think many people watched it.
While I don't mind Umu like some people I think Extra Archer or Tamamo would've been more interesting.
>>
>>3621750

Also: Saver is the most bullshit final boss
>>
>>3621718
Oh and Arjuna Alters deal is
"REEEEEEEEEE I MUST ERADICATE EVIL"
Don't question that he is Lawful Evil himself.
>>
>>3621761

I see. Well sounds like a 50/50 shot of either eating or allying. Either way it'd be a great benefit
>>
>>3621761
>Don't question that he is Lawful Evil himself.
Or rather, question it, because it is a thought-provoking commentary on the subjectivity of good and evil and the dangers of absolutes.
Either that, or F/GO is shit.
remember, only an alter deals in absolutes
>>
>>3621775
>it is a thought-provoking commentary on the subjectivity of good and evil and the dangers of absolutes.
Alberich is a clear example of this, if anything.
>>
>>3621779
Well, at least the subjectivity part.
>>
>>3621738
Tell me it was at least a fairly different take on the concept from what I've written.
>>
>>3621795
>kicks corpses head off out of spite
>"Good thing morality is subjective!"
>>
>>3621806
You got the idea.
>>
>>3621806
He violated the NAP by organizing the betrayal and trying to strong-arm us. He deserves what he got.
>>
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>>3621775
>only an alter deals in absolute
Oh yes. Galactic Emperor Alberich Palpatine and his apprentice route is now on.
>>3621803
HAKUNO and Alberich being similar concepts is the only really major parallel. It was done in a very different way from that you have written. Fancy enough though it also had Robin Hood in it albeit as an Archer.
You might want to look into it just to compare how HAKUNO was handled.
>>
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>>3621822
>when Shirou Emiya threatens your waifu so you send your McSaber to Excalibur Morgan his house and incinerate his family
>>
>>3621857
I've been thinking about Saber Alter. She turned out the way she did primarily because of the mud right? Would she still come out BLACKED even though we apparently don't have it?
>>
>>3621882
Well she's already partially altered as a result of the last war apparently. Turns out dipping in All the Worlds Evils is bad for your soul.
...
What if Saber has managed to get split personality disorder?
>>
>>3621882
Well, Sweets dropped few hints: it is possible, she is mentally half-way there and it is somehow related to our magical powers and nature.
So it is likely we still don`t know full truth about how exactly and from that we were made and sculptured and this is related to our possible way of dragging her through the mud and subjugating her. And we need to remember that Judas did pulled an Extra Assassin for Akeldama whom looked kind of like he was not part of Akeldama War properly judging from the way he behaved and lackluster char sheet.
>>
>>3621925
>Akeldama was based on fifth war, down to Extra Assassin
>we look a lot like Dark Sakura
>red and black stripes
>Shadow would've been our Assassin form
>end goal of fifth war was summoning Angra
>sacrifice to create us
>evil alignment
...
Are we Angra Mainyu 2?
Uh.
Oh nooooooo.
>>
>>3619747
Discuss with all of them how to conceal their involvement with us and with the grail war overall. We'd be in a bad spot if the overseer found out.
>>
>>3621939
>Angra Mainyu 2
Doubtful, we would probably need to be cursed as such and then sacrificed.
>>
>>3621992
Reverse World Angra Mainyu.
>>
>>3621964
This is also a good idea, it would enable us to work from right under the noses of the Church and Kerry Dos.

>>3622004
Should've we have ended up as All the World's Good, then?
>>
>>3622019
Anon, you remember what the Reverse Side of the World is right?
I'm mostly joking anyway.
I do want our own personal Saberface though.
>>
>>3622019
>Shouldn't*
Just gotta keep saving for a new computer....
>>
>>3622029
>I do want our own personal Saberface though.
>t. Takeuchi
>>
>>3622112
Saberfaces are God's gift to this Earth.
>>
>>3622112
Oh no what have I done.
>>
>>3622245
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>>3620539
Beryl or Kirischtaria might be good matches for Alberich
>>
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>>3622245
Never do that again.
>>
>>3622338
God I just want all of these people to die.
Imagine being dumb enough to team up with some hostile Type/Umbral Star-esque bullshit.
And these are people who are supposedly meant to be highly intelligent.
Alberich would almost 100 percent attempt to usurp the Alien God as last boss if he was summoned by any of those imbeciles.
He'd probably try and absorb the powers of a fuckload of Servants and possibly a Grand Servant to achieve this end.
>>
>>3622389
Do remember that you've only able to absorb the power of enemies you defeat due to Ayaka's ritual.
>>
>>3622441
Unless we learn how to do said ritual by ourselves.
>>
I still can't believe we have the same voice as Shinji.
>>
>>3622462
Wow, you sure do. Funny, I'd actually picked him based on his performance as Araragi, and totally forgot he played Shinji.
Now that I think about it, though, it might be a good idea to decide on a different VA for Alberich. The character's changed a fair amount, both physically and mentally, since Akeldama.
>>
>>3622514
>The character's changed a fair amount, both physically and mentally, since Akeldama.
I'm going to get those Compassion points back, you fucker.
>>
>>3622518
You only lost five points.
>>
>>3622518
>compassioncucks thinking they'll get anything back
pridechads are here to stay
>>
>>3622526
And mark his words, he's gonna fucking get them back.
>>
>>3622514
Also it would be deeply concerning for Sakura.
We are the ghost of Shinji, come to take vengeance.
Now we know why Rider hates us so much, at least.
>>3622535
He's already getting most of them back.
I'm honestly very surprised it wasn't a bigger drop.
It just goes to show how much he's grown that he only lost 5 points from being told he was created to be better than humans in every way.
>>
>>3622550
The real change is in my approach. Now that he's no longer bound to "his" pre-Akeldama memories, Alberich is more volatile. He can lose points to personality traits as well, instead of just racking them up.
>>
>>3622558
>Pride can be made to go lower
Compassionfags strike back.
But yeah, makes sense.
>>
>>3622558
>He can lose points to personality traits as well, instead of just racking them up.
Oh, that's not good.
>>
>>3622564
Inb4 killing Shirou and his faction drops Compassion to 0.
>>
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>Awakening Mirror DVD Omakes Ep1
>Shirou activates his protag powers and invites Seibah over for dinner
>we sit across from her, all smiles
>hfw
>>
>>3622575
Only if it's revealed at the end that Circe poisoned everyone's food.
>>
>>3622579
Nah, that's too predictabo.
>>
>>3622586
Fine then.
Circe decides to put some sort of love potion in Alberich's food to see if it works on him with the intent to appear in front of him after he's eaten it, then shit gets mixed up and another character ends up getting the potion and temporarily falling for whoever they next see.
>>
>>3622597
Now the question is who would be the funniest and with who?
>>
>>3622623
The obvious one would be anyone in the room except Sakura with Shirou.
>>
Shirou would be too Sword (re: dumb) to be affected, so he's out. Not sorry, fujoshits.
>>
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>>3622633
For a sword, he isn't very sharp
>>
>>3622623
>Shirou with Alberich
>Every female in the room is triggered in some way, shape, or form
>>
>>3622658
>Swordman with Saber
>Issei's best friend with StuCoPrez
I guess it was meant to be.
>>
>>3621686
I'd do it.
>>
>>3622670
Oh no! As a (former) Student Council President, we're at a total disadvantage against Rin!
>>
>>3622658
>Alberich goes full "No Way Fag" because Shirou's no Ogawara
>Shirou ends up doing his damndest to look girly after asking what Alberich is into
>>
>>3622679
>Shirou cosplaying as an albino loli
......
>>
>>3622679
Alberich is nothing against Shirou's true power.
His ultimate Noble Phantasm, temporarily bestowing him with EX rank Charisma

"Autistically High Jump For Hours!"
>>
>>3622678
>we're at a total disadvantage against Rin!
Too old.
Wait, I got it. Sakura acts like Chris Redfield/Son-Goku, trying to get Albwrich to fuck Rin before her womb dries up.
>>3622688
Thanks for the mental image, anon. I really appreciate it.
>>
>>3622693
You're quite welcome.

I can already imagine Adelheid acting as the "comedic relief" from the comedy itself by making vague references to horrible atrocities and German supremacy every time the camera cuts to her.
>>
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>>3622693
Rin is the natural enemy of Student Council Presidents.
>>3622702
I think Adelheid would be put to much better use bullying every magus in sight.
>>
Hey Sweets, is Rin still single and childless in this Quest?
>>
>>3622709
Indubitably
>>
>>3622709
I mean, of course.
>>
>>3622709
I think this is the question we should really be asking Rin.
>>
>>3622709

>The child of Rin and Alberich

I'm horrified by the spawn already. Hmmm, Albeirch+Puppeteer or Shiki kid. I'm now wondering the eugenics aspects of Alberich and waifu pairings
>>
>>3622718
>>3622723
How old is she now, 35? She must be getting desperate. This play, the writing is intensifying to the point where we may not be able to contain it.

>>3622724
When the opportunity arises.
>>
>>3622737
She'd be 33, I think.
>>3622733
>has all 5 elements + void and nothingness along with an assload of magic circuits and superhuman physical abilities.
Eugenics successful.
>>
>>3622733
> Implying Alberich would sire children with anything less than a fellow incarnated Servant The Kotomine Kid is a scintillating proposition however
>>
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>>3622709
>>3622724
>>3622733
>>3622737
>>3622752
Well, alright, but do you really want to have kids with this fat slob?
>>
>>3622756
Why the fuck do you even have this.
>>
>>3622756
Wh~y? Why is this a thing that you posted?
>>
>>3622756
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this
>>
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>>3622756
D E L E T
>>
Let's just ignore that post and look at this instead.
>>
>>3622773
Anon saves the day with the original.
>>
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>>3622766
A long time ago, yes.
I also made this!
>>
>>3622753

Hey, Rin pulls double duty as the vessel for two Goddesses to be Servants. She's pretty high tier all things considered for eugenics. Now...would it be the right thing to bless Shirou with an Alberich+Sakura child?
>>
>>3622780
>NTR
Alberich is above that surely
>>
>>3622777
Oh no, Chaotic-evil edit anon has returned.
>>3622773
If we can somehow deal with the Emiyas peacefully, then we can waifu Rin.
Where does she rank on the attractiness scale for Alberich?
>>
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>>3622733
>>3622752
>>3622753
What would you think would happen if the Mage's Association catches wind of the genetic marvel that is Alberich

>>3622777 (Jackpot)
aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

>>3622780
>cuckfaggotry
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>
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>>3622784
>Where does she rank on the attractiness scale for Alberich?
She's an old hag, so...
>>
>>3622785
The answer is Sealing Designation and dissection.
It always is.
>>
>>3622784
>Oh no, Chaotic-evil edit anon has returned.
He never left. He was just waiting for the right moment.
>Where does she rank on the attractiness scale for Alberich?
Given how much Adelheid's Charisma has skewed Alberich's sexual preferences... C-Tier?
>>
>>3622737
>>3622780
>Alberich having children with hags
Don't do this to me, anons.

>>3622784
Revised "Alberich's Aesthetics" Tier List:
S-Tier: Liliesviel von Einzbern, Adelheid, Illyasviel von Einzbern
A-Tier: Circe, Seiba, Ogawara Yatsuhide (Caster)
B-Tier: Emiya Kaori, Shijou Ayaka, Munahara Kikuko, Truvietianne Edelfelt
C-Tier: Emiya Sakura, Tohsaka Rin, Akagata Kyouka, Rider of Fuyuki, Fujimura Taiga
>>
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>>3622786
N-no.
>>
>>3622792
Hey, I'm not doing anything, I understand that Alberich believes that 12 is prime.
>>
>>3622801
Well, 12(adult).
>>
>>3622792
>Death to roasties
>Supporter of Female(male)
>Believes in age-equality
Alberich is the hero of our times, no doubt. Also, good on Shirou for having the best of the worst for a wife and the best of the mediocre for a daughter.
>>
>>3622792
The real question now is where Medusa Lily and Rin and Sakura 15 years ago would rank.

>Alberich is able to figh Kiara on account of her being a Super Hag and not finding her attractive in the slightest.
>>
>>3622785
>>3622782

Hey hey hey, It's not as though Shirou would even notice :^)

>>3622792

You will do it and you will do it well, it's time for Alberich's tastes to be refined this war!
>>
>>3622792
>Adelheid in S
>Circe in A
So this is the power of Charisma A...
>>
>>3622808
>best of the worst
Characters within a tier are listed in no particular order, or are equivalent.
>>
>>3622815
It's just how attractive he finds them on appearance alone.
He still loves Circe the most (or else.)
Every one of them is some shade of beautiful, regardless.
>>
>>3622816
Oh, I see. My bad for assuming.
>>
>>3622793
>she even has an overcoat
>something only old people wear
laughing_monkey.mp4
>>
>>3622823
>the prime indicator of an old person*
Fixed to be more accurate
>>
>>3622820
At the end of Fate/City Akeldama, the two were tied for affection score.
>>
>>3622823
The solution of this is to go looking for Gilgamesh's immortality herb in Imaginary Number Space to spike everyone and make them kids again.
>>
>>3622828
Huh.
Well.
Good job Alberich.
>>
>>3622832
Now that I think about it, would even Gilgamesh regard Alberich higher than most Servants but still dislike him for their likely clashing personalities?
>>
>>3622811
She's a bit more busted than that anon, if Al feels any sort of attraction towards anything period, she can hit him with Beast juice.

Gotta go full ascetic mode.

Thankfully she should be busy doing normal things as a therapist right about now. Just...keep her away from oil rigs.
>>
>>3622846
I suppose it would depend on how Alberich turns out in his quest to rule.
>>
>>3622850

Gilgamesh would hate him for wanting to rule the world and not be his vassal PERIOD
>>
>>3622846
Possibly.
He'd be unlikely to call us a mongrel, I would hope.
>>3622832
Is there a better plan for dealing with the Emiyas and Rin than turning then all into 11 year olds?
Rider would probably get a whole personality change too.
>>
>>3622854
But he thought Iskandar was a cool guy despite those being literally the same circumstances.
And Gil gets on with Ozy.
>>
>>3622858

I mean more the world that Alberich wants to rule in than the actual thing in and of itself
>>
>>3622863
But Alberich will likely bring about the new Age of Gods, where Man isn't so shit tier.
>>
>>3622858
The nuance is a bit different. Iskandar wants to conquer the world, and is satisfied with his own nature as being sufficient for doing so.
Gilgamesh sees the world as already being his, and perceives himself as being the supreme being; he is also satisfied with his own nature.
What Alberich desires is to "occupy the summit," and be supreme. He is unsatisfied with his own nature, seeking constantly to enhance it, and desires the "right to rule" that he sees in an ultimate existence. In this way, his ideal challenges Gilgamesh more directly than Iskandar's.
See:
>The wish of Pride has been discovered through introspection:
>Regnum Iustus: Authority attained through merit, power without upper bound
>>
>>3622873
>a fight between (powered up) Alberich and Gil would consist mostly of insult flinging instead of fighting.
>>
>>3622882
Where's the high school AU where Alberich and Gil are teenage girls attempting to become the Queen Bee?
>>
>>3622887
In the next Carnival Phantasm... ;_;
>>
>>3622887
>High school for the rich elite
>Gilgako is the queen of the first year, from the richest family of all. Succeeds at everything through raw talent.
>Alberette enters the class as a scholarship transfer student, incredibly hard worker type. Is the first student to match Gilgako in looks, brains, and athleticism
I love it.
>>
>>3622887
>Teenage girls
>Not the issue started when a "Who is the hottest guy in the school?" contest started
>>
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>>3622905
That would be too biased toward Gilgamesh, his AUO Castoff is just too powerful.
Another reason to level up Conceptual Biology.
>>
So I've had some stuff going on today that's prevented me from writing up until now, but at this point I can start working on the update.
Now, before that I need to figure out what you want to say.
Everybody wants to talk to Rin, that's fine, but what about? I've got some posts wanting to ask her for more info on the Einzberns, some curious about Truvietianne, one guy who wants to figure out how to be as stealthy as possible, and some other stuff that I've missed, I'm sure.
>>
>>3622952
Definitely prioritize working out a way to be as stealthy as possible.
>>
>>3622952
I want to ask her about the Einzberns, Truvietianne and Vaisset's Elemental Transmutation.
>>
>>3622952
I'm an Einzberns purist, and am quite against mentioning anything regarding Truvi or Vaisset's work specifically.
>>
>>3622962
Giving away Ayakas brothers magical research to another magus is the same as pissing on Vaissets grave in front of her. Magus families don't share shit.
>>
>>3622952
Definitely ask about the Einzberns, omit Truvi's involvement, ask the group about being stealthy with stuff like encrypted cellphones.
>>
>>3622970
... or just cellphones if that's too metagamey. Either way, find ways to use non-magical means of communication to stay under Harris and the Church's proverbial radar.
>>
>>3622952
Ask about the Einzberns and how to coordinate secretly.
>>
>>3622952
Stealth and Einzberns.
>>
>>3622903
>Gilgako and Alberette try to find out who the greatest, once and for all, is through many, increasingly ridiculous trials, with Enkidu(femape) as the referee
>they tie in every single one, regardless of what it is
>they end up gaining a sort of mutual respect for each other, after Enkidu intervenes and calls them both the best, for different reasons, by the end of the special
>onlookers call the two tsundere for each other behind their backs
>>
You guys think this would fit for an Alberich theme?

https://youtu.be/5hi41ITeugQ
>>
>>3622996
>female*
>>
>>3622999
Very dramatic. I do rather like it, although it may be more appropriate once Alberich has become quite a bit more powerful.
>>
>>3622999
>>3623125
I've been listening to this song in reference to Alberich for the past week, funnily enough.
>>
I've been thinking further on the new VA idea. Considering Takahashi Hiroki, or maybe Narita Ken. Thoughts? What are your VA picks for Alberich, folks?
>>
>>3623148
Did Alberich get a voice change after getting grailed or does he sound like Araragi even if he looks like someone in his twenties?
>>
>>3623148

I'm not really well versed in VAs of Japan than I am as with English

So to lend my knowledge there, I'd say either Bryan Massey or Ian Sinclair. Best to know how you hear Alberich's voice in your head, how'd you describe it Sweets?
>>
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>>3623148
>Narita Ken
>voice of pic related
Yessss
>>
>>3623157
Well, for the time being I'll suggest Morikawa Toshiyuki to go with the Kira memes.
Also some soundbites.
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040013000_v_002.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040013000_v_013.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040013000_v_190.mp3
>>
>>3623157
He got a voice change, which is why I'm looking at new VAs. See >>3622514, although I guess I was a bit vague there.
>>3623158
Relatively deep, but smooth; not very raspy. A voice that fits the "chivalrous knight" archetype well, while still having the potential to go into unhinged rage.
>>
>>3623185

Well then. Either Troy Baker or Travis Willingham would fit perfectly like a glove
>>
>>3623185
Gonna second Ian Sinclair then. Dude's Berkut is fanfuckingtastic.

https://youtu.be/2Hz2GLkRFLc?t=1m53s
>>
Someone mentioned Yog-Sothoth in the last thread because of "I am the key/I am the gate", so by the twisted reasoning of F/GO this is the perfect excuse to make a Foreigner Alberich.
>>
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>>3623429
ALBERICH NO

DON'T STICK YOUR sword IN THERE

...now that you mention it though, Abby might place pretty high on his tier list.
>>
>>3623441
too late, i wrote the sheet already
>>
So, what are the odds we're forced into killing the Emiyas?
We should start plotting non-lethal ways to take them out of commission.
Kidnapping Sakura, telling them we will release her after the wish and threatening to kill her if they try anything might work.
>>
>>3623503
>So, what are the odds we're forced into killing the Emiyas?
If the Grail is still corrupted, they'll insist on destroying or closing it, so we'll be forced to kill them.
If the Grail isn't corrupted, they'll still want to stop the War because it's already been much more catastrophic than the Fourth War, so we might have to kill them.
>Kidnapping Sakura, telling them we will release her after the wish and threatening to kill her if they try anything might work
Not without a lot of preparation, it won't. Shirou is already very powerful, Medusa is a bad matchup for us because of Cybele, and Rin probably knows some very simple uses of the Second Magic by now, to say nothing of what Sakura could do.
We'll need a lot more power and maybe a strong ally to pull it off.
>>
>>3623518
Of course it would be difficult.
Hopefully we'd have either Einzbern support or our Servants back.
Circe especially can easily deal with the humans.
>>
>>3623523
>Circe
Hey, don't our ribbons work well with Metaschimatistikí Velóna? We can restrain the enemy and Circe can do her work.
It would be a great combo if the thing wasn't redundant.
>>
>>3623529
It mentions it can make them undergo ANY change imaginable. But must be due to malice or emnity on her part. This means she ca-
Oh fuck me.
...
Other Yumigawa.
>>
>>3623537
It also requires the target to be unable to resist, which would give him an infinitesimal chance to escape.
In any case, we have no idea what happened to her, so we can't jump to conclusions. Still, we should stop by Yumigawa's home, if only to prevent the "resonance" Judas warned us about.

Adding that to the to-do list...
>learn how to use Void and/or Nothingness in magecraft (since they define and actualize impossibilities, Projection might be fun and useful) [Started]
>Learn to use the three miracles of Heiligöffnungschwert
>Complete Jean's research into Element Synthesis (might broaden our horizons by letting us convert imaginary elements into real ones to use in magecraft)
>Kill Arturia and either eat her NPs or get Instinct
>Level up Conceptual Biology and/or Magic Resistance
>Go through at least one shounen training montage, learn Magical Energy Burst (Void/Nothingness/Sky)
>Get Circe and Adelheid back
>Figure out a way to incarnate so we won't need a Master (could Circe help with this?)
>Find Matsuda, Ogawara and Truvietianne
>Find Yumigawa Rushorou
>Talk to Judas
>>
>>3623558
Should turn eating Arturia into Eating/Corrupting Arturia if we get our corrupting shadow on.
Her NPs aren't great for us.
Instinct is basically just worse EotM.
Saber Alter is an excellent minion, however.
>>
>>3623571
>Instinct is basically just worse EotM.
Not necessarily.
Instinct told Arturia to back the fuck away from Cu Chulainn where Mind's Eye might've failed, or told her she could try to dodge or interrupt; as for the NPs, I suspect Excalibur might have better synergy with Heiligöffnungschwert since they're both holy swords now.
Also, how are we going to corrupt her directly? The most we can do is push at her weaknesses, which could have unexpected results. Finally, would Alter rather work with us than Excaliblast us off the face of the Earth?

I like the idea of corrupting her, but it seems to fall apart on close examination.
>>
>>3623571
Also it's in character for Alberich to want to make her submit to him after the humiliating defeat he was dealt.
Arturia is A-tier in appearance, too.
It's a shame Rin is too old to rank higher than C on Alberich's Aesthetics tier list.
>>
>>3623580
Sweets himself confirmed it as a possibility.
We just need to level up our magecraft.
>>
>>3623583
>make her submit
>A-Tier in appearance
no way, we waifu only circe and alberich here
>>3623585
>All the same, if you really want to get your corrupting shadow on, you'll have to really work on improving your skill as a magus.
I worry that could be a huge timesink that prevents us from doing much of anything else.
>>
>>3623609
>we waifu only circe and alberich
>circe and alberich
>alberich
Uh.
Regardless of if we waifu her, Saber Alter is an immensely powerful ally to have.
Also if we do this our most powerful allies will be a King (Female), a country (Female) and a Goddess (former) which I think is thematically cool.
>>
>>3623623
>Uh.
What, have you not heard??? This was established back in thread 2
>Also if we do this our most powerful allies will be a King (Female), a country (Female) and a Goddess (former) which I think is thematically cool.
hmmmmmm, dunno what to say about this except a joke about doing it for king, country and god
>>
>>3623609
>not wanting our very own personal gothic lolita maid to bully to our hearts content
>>
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>get Circe
>capture the Emiyas
>to ensure they won't be as much an issue, have Circe transform them into children and seal their ability to use magecraft (not sure if she can do this but it's Caster, so she can probably do something. Also not sure why Genius Magus Rin was defeated by being tied to a chair in UBW but that's neither here nor there.)
Flawless plan, with the added benefit of making Rin and Rider (and Sakura) non-hags.
>>
>>3623654
Ah, I just checked.
Kirei conveniently has magic resistant bindings and her magic circuit was messed up for no reason.
So I guess we could just do that to them.
>>
>all this talk about concubi-- slave Saber
Personally, I just want to kill her.
>>
>>3623706
But why?
>>
>>3623717
Because an existence that so openly and unabashedly insulted us, and Circe's legacy, cannot be allowed to exist. I also don't want a fat pig to eat us out of house and home with constant and purely fast food purchases. Such a low-taste individual cannot be allowed to stay within our presence.
>>
>>3623735
Anon, if we own everything, how exactly is she going to eat us out of house and home?
The over-eating is to be expected, she's a Dragon after all.
I think becoming the corruption of her own ideals permanently is a far greater punishment than "You died, retry?" for Saber.
>>
>>3623744
>Anon, if we own everything, how exactly is she going to eat us out of house and home?
By eating us out of house and home before we get to that point?
>I think becoming the corruption of her own ideals permanently is a far greater punishment than "You died, retry?" for Saber.
I find the ideal of "a King should absolutely rule with an iron fist, even at the cost of his most loyal subjects", to be contentious with how we wish to rule("a King should be a strong, guiding hand that moves for the improvement and protection of his people", at least that's what I gleaned from our coffee session with Adelheid).
>>
>>3623744
>I think becoming the corruption of her own ideals permanently is a far greater punishment than "You died, retry?" for Saber.
Biggest part of corrupting and controling her for me is that she will accept that we far are superior compare to her, a perfect existence which showed her errors of her older ways. Just like we did with Kikuko.
Free maid (king) is just a sweet bonus.
>>
>>3623757
>eating us out of house and home before we get to that point
At this point, I would hope we would have Circe back, and I don't doubt she could just magic up money
>Saber Alters ideals
Yeah but sometimes you need to make an example of people.
Unless you suggest we deal with weaklings rebelling against our enlightened reign with our own hand?
There are some who will just be too stubborn to accept our rule no matter what. These are the people we send Saber Alter to deal with.
Basically Saber Alter becomes the head of the SS.
>>
>>3623785
>Basically Saber Alter becomes the head of the SS.
I think Adelheid will want that position.
Alter can be head of the Waffen-SS, though.
>>
>>3623791
100000000% official Reichsleiter seats:

>Fuhrer
Alberich
>Allgemeine-SS
Adelheid
>Waffen-SS
Saber Alter
>Thuleordenmeister
Circe
>>
>>3623810
...
Are we the baddies?
>>
>>3623826
Oh my god. Her buttons have a bat motif. That is adorable.
>>
>>3623837
It's like the outfit was designed by somebody trying their utmost to be edgy.
And managing to somewhat fail.
>"Ok it needs to be black and gold, oh and with some red too! Oh, it also needs fire, spiderwebs and bats."
I do like the fact that the belt buckle is depicting the holy grail though.
>>
>>3623826
>that flame sleeves
It's not Guy Fieri tier but I still chuckled.
>>
>>3623880
>you are now imagining Diner Drive-Ins and Dives, featuring Alturia
>>
>>3623875
You think so? The impression I got was cutesy gothic halloween, not edgy tryhard.
>>
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>>3623890
I don't think many people think dressing up as dictators is acceptable for Halloween.
Well, except the British Royal Family. Ha Ha.
>>
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>>3623890
Alters are all edgy tryhards. Especially EMIYA.
>>
>>3623894
It has bat-shaped buttons and spiderwebs. There's no way that's not a halloween motif. All it's missing is pumpkins.
Also, I don't think anything nazi used tassels and brocade that way. It looks more like imperial-era naval to me.
>>
>>3623901
I still like the image no matter why Saber Alter might be dressed like that.
I also have this.
>>
Oh boy, I can't wait to corrupt Saber and have her cut down her own Master.
A real page from Medea's book, that.
>>
>>3623933
And also Sakura's actually.
Saber sure gets mind controlled into doing things she doesn't want a lot.
>>
>>3623933
>>3623937
Chances are she might enjoy doing so.
>>
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>>3623919
Have this too.
>>
>>3623429
>Foreigner
>True Name: Alberich
>Height: 6'2"
>Weight: ???
>Alignment: ???
>Likes
Circe
>Dislikes
???

>Emotional Status
Pride~N/A
Self-Preservation~N/A
Compassion~N/A
Duty~N/A
C̢̔̍̄̈́̍̀̾͊̊̇ͩ̑̎ŏ͛̀́̄̕r̵̪̼̓̿r̗̼̠̮̳̤̰̒̌ͩ́̎͐͐ṷ͉̻͚̗͉̠͚ͮ̐̆͒͂͗ͧ̚p͇͚̣̱̠͈̬̖̮͚ͯ͒̐͂͊̑ͭͯͣ͆͜t̗͚͖̞̺̮ͧ̂́̏ͧͮ̏ͅï͕͕͚̼̻̪̞͗̏ͨ́̍͛̈́͘ͅo͝ñ̴ͮ͡~100 (100MF)


>Strength: C
>Constitution: D
>Agility: C
>Mana: A
>Luck: E
>NP: A

Class Abilities:
>Existence Outside the Domain: EX

Personal Skills:

>Conceptual Biology: A
> A body radically altered by the empowerment of the Silver Grail and Akeldama. In addition to functioning physically on a level far beyond that of a human, numerous changes to Foreigner's internal workings have occurred. As a partial consequence of this conceptual existence, the consumption of enchanted food, potions, inedible items disguised as food, and other harmful things will not affect this inhuman biology (although this is irrelevant since consumption is impossible).

>Forbidden Knowledge: EX
>Transcendent knowledge granted by a being outside the boundaries of human understanding. No human can exist after comprehending the ultimate mystery, but Foreigner was able to cling to life. Among its benefits is knowledge of foul sorceries such as cursecraft, the summoning of demons, creation of evil artifacts and others.

>Mental Pollution: A++
>Foreigner is only vaguely similar to the existence known as "Alberich".

Noble Phantasms:

>The Key of the Outer God, Ich bin der Schlüssel: E~A+ Rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
>A perversion of a certain miracle. It allows Foreigner to summon various beings from another world with characteristics of a deep-sea environment, ranging from small demons which cannot defeat a single Servant alone to titanic monsters which can threaten multiple Servants.

>The Gate of the Howling Void, Ich bin das Tor: EX-Rank Anti-World/Anti-Personnel (Self) Noble Phantasm
>A twisted rendition of a Noble Phantasm. What was once a cloak has fused with Foreigner's body, becoming a second skin and a gateway to another realm: anything which crosses the event horizon will enter a world incompatible with humanity. There is no hope for those who have crossed the gate, only death.
>It's also possible to release "something" from the other side, although this consumes a great deal of magical energy.

Relationships:
>Circe
"...You've changed so much..."
[Foreigner is reaching out to her.]
>Abigail
Something is familiar about him, like he reminds her of someone she knows.
[Foreigner is focusing on her intently.]
>Gilles de Rais
[Foreigner seems interested in Prelati's Spellbook.]

Quotes:

>Level Up
"...."
>Ascension
1. "...!"
2. "...!!"
3. "!!!"
4. "I--"
>Start of combat
"..."
"...!"
>Command Card Selected
"!"
"..."
>Skill
"!!!"
>Noble Phantasm 1
"■■■!!!"
>Noble Phantasm 2
"■□○■●●●■□!!!"
>Defeat
"..."
>Victory
"...!"
>>
>>3623961
Nice.
>>3623941
We are a benevolent Emperor, even to our previous enemies.
>>
>>3623965
You really missed on a joke about Foreigner Alberich not liking summer BB due to her bbs.
>>
>>3623933
Somehow, I doubt the Emiyas would approve of us emulating the Shadow so closely. Alberich also doesn't yet know that Saber Alter is possible, let alone his lack of any method of achieving it. But the more of these >>3623961 I see, the more I want to try it anyway...

>>3623965
Fun, but what happened to Adelheid?
>>
>>3623999
>>
>>3624021
>Fun, but what happened to Adelheid?
Chaldea was understandably reluctant to summon what they thought was Hitler, so Adelheid never actually joined Chaldea. that means i forgot
>>
>>3624021
>Alberich also doesn't yet know that Saber Alter is possible, let alone his lack of any method of achieving it.
Yeah, at present, we should only wish to kill her.
>>
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>>3624021
We could always ask more about Saber from the last war and why she's such a terrible thing to deal with.
Probably should've asked Rin that.
Having Saber Alter join the party would be very nice.
Only problem is we probably need to kill Rider to accomplish it. Unless we can make do with only 5 servants.
>>3624030
Honestly, you have to wonder why Chaldea just has so many unrepentantly evil motherfuckers walking about.
Nobody has any problems with Gilles being there? Or Angra?
Gilgamesh should be explicitly trying to murder Ishtar with full power Enuma Elishes.
>>
>>3624043
>Gilgamesh should be explicitly trying to murder Ishtar with full power Enuma Elishes.
Speaking of Ishtar, Gods help us if we encounter her in the Reverse Side.
>>
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>>3623965
Interesting concept. I'm curious why his weight and alignment are both left as mysteries, and I'm not totally sure about leaving all his dialogue as Berserker-style wordlessness.
Also, since nobody else has the Forbidden Knowledge skill it should be A or A++, not EX. EX is for when it can't be properly compared to other skills of the same type.

>>3624021
Good thinking. Incidentally, here's one of my own favorite Alter images; though the tone isn't quite the same.
>>
>>3624043
>Nobody has any problems with Gilles being there?
M-maybe Jeanne is keeping him under control?
>Gilgamesh should be explicitly trying to murder Ishtar with full power Enuma Elishes.
Apparently he lets it slide because Rinnanna is more chill than Ishtar. Rin's nature is making Ishtar less of a raging bitch.
>Or Angra
Alright, I have no explanation for this one.
>>
>>3624065
>Alright, I have no explanation for this one.
Dude was pretty chill in HA, wasn't he?
>>
>>3624043
>Probably should've asked Rin that.
They dodged our previous question about Saber though.
In-character it looks like that Emiyas and Saber have some sort of long running animosity and they took her down with a cheap shot they are unwilling to tell us. Shirou also told us that she was his Servant and they somehow ended up against each other. Plus Rider from that war is right here besides us. And we have zero idea about her story.

We are really thinking about all of this with metaknowledge even if trying not to.
>>
>>3624077
>We are really thinking about all of this with metaknowledge even if trying not to.
It's inevitable when using canon characters. I really miss the Akeldama days that were relatively metagaming-free but here we are.
>>
>3 Foreigner Servants and still no lore explanation of what Existence Outside the Domain actually does
Oh, I've been reminded of another reason to hate FGO.
>>
>>3624095
>Onore...
>>
>>3624095
>"What do you mean lore description? Just give it a randomly assigned effect and call it a day."
>>
>>3624095
You can look at it this way:
Foreigner Servants are all backed by lovecraftian Outer Gods like Yog, Nyarly and such. Whom are part of Public Domain and are free to reference in all kinds of media. While all other materials of Nasuverse are privately owned.
So they DO Exist Outside of (Private) Domain of FGO.
>>
>>3624129
Was unaware that Type-Moon had a monopoly on mythology.
>>
>>3624141
Well if google images anything to go by.
>>
So if we get our allies back, convert Saber, deal with the Emiyas without killing them, win the war and incarnate along with our servants, what next?
World Domination?
Bringing the Gods back?
Where exactly do we start?
>>
>>3624209
Fate Quest Arc 3: The Mystery of Direction
Alberich, in Search of a Goal
>>
>>3624214
Sweets, in which tier of "Alberich's Aesthetics" would female Hakuno get?
>>
>>3624214
>The final boss is not Shirou or Saber or Gilgamesh of Kirei 2.0, but Alberich's fundamental lack of purpose
>>
>>3624226
Goal 1: find Rhongomyniad
Goal 1.5: DO NOT HIT RHONGOMYNIAD
Goal 2: give Rhongomyniad to Saber Alter
Goal 3: have Circe and Alturia find out how to stop it keeping the Age of Gods from returning
Easy.
>>
>>3624209
>deal with the Emiyas without killing them
Why does avoiding killing them matter so much?
>>
I want to see Circe or Adelheid again.
Preferably without the Emiya kill squad with us.
I don't want to kill Rider that much.
>>
>>3624239
Because otherwise we'll take a monumental compassion hit.
Shirou and his faction are putting themselves in harms way in order to save people for no gain.
>>
>>3624248
Isn't it more fun to make choices from the point of view of Alberich instead of caring about compassion/pride/etc. scores?
>>
>>3624248
>Making decisions based on how you want the character stats to develop
Sad!

>>3624252
Based Roleplaying Anon
>>
>>3624252
Alberich likes Shirou as a person from what he's seen of him. "The most good-hearted person you've ever met."
He's growing on Alberich quickly.
Also there's Ayaka to consider.
>>3624260
Sounding desperate there, pridefags.
>>
>>3624225
B, I suppose. Why do you ask?
>>
Claiming Post 1945 for Adelheid
>>
>>3624293
I can't believe nobody said something for 1933. It's her birth year, after all.
>>
>>3624286
Not as desperate as Sakura's cries anon
>>
>>3624214
I'm pretty curious to see what happens. I think non-grail war fate is underexplored in quests.
>>
>>3624286
Additionally, if there's no Angra, their involvement doesn't need to continue. Then they can go back to a quiet life.
>>3624290
Where would F/sn Rin and Sakura rank? where would Zero Rin and Sakura rank?
>>3624305
Heh.
>>
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>>3624290
Just a bit of curiosity since Hakuno can get Bond Levels with Servants up to 30.
>>
>>3624319
>I think non-grail war fate is underexplored in quests.
That's because it's much harder to write in the setting outside of a Grail War. Arc 3 will definitely be the biggest undertaking of the quest.
>>
>>3624334
>bond level up to 30
Are these words meant to mean anything?
Like, bond level is just a dumb videogame term.
Fuck the Moon Cell, it's a fucking stupid idea that literally retcons Type-Moon in the timelines it somehow exists in.
It seems the further in the past an AU series diverged, the worse it is.
Apocrypha: diverges in the third war: bad
FGO: Only one Fuyuki War, confusing pseudo time travel nonsense: trash
Extra: diverged billions of years ago: pointless and too many trash clone Sakuras
Prisma: some real fanfiction garbage, supposedly only diverged during the fourth war somehow, but fuck off with that: official fanfiction
>>
>>3624403
Also, the Kaleidostick was just a gag from HA yet they made an entire story from it.
Nevermind that if the Kaleidostick wasn't just a gag that kind of makes Rin a terrible person for not even considering using it during F/SN.
>>
>>3624403
I was simply taking a stab at Master of Chaldea and 10-15 Bond levels in comparison to 30 levels of Hakuno as a measurement of Master-Servant relationship and how it would affect the way Servant look at Master. Similary how act of Compassion from Ayaka completely flustered Alberich earlier and was a right call on her part.
>videogame term
Of course? It is just there to give a personal feeling of relationship and trust progression mechanically.
>>
>>3624437
This is like the dial that goes up to eleven in This is Spinal Tap. Max bond is the same in either game, it's just an arbitrary number they slap on it.
>>
>>3624437
Sure but the terminology of the two worst parts of the series is something that shouldn't be taken into account.
I mean, the deepest bond between Master and Servant still belongs to Shirou and Saber because Shirou somehow managed to get into Avalon.
Which shouldn't really be at all possible.
Poor Master of Chaldea, all those bond levels and their Servants will never have sex with them.
>>
>>3624443
I think the funniest part about the Master of Chaldeas bond levels is that he needs to feed his servants cups full of magical fire until bond level can increase above 10
Which is fucking stupid.
>>
>>3624456
>Poor Master of Chaldea, all those bond levels and their Servants will never have sex with them.
A fate of all associated with Mobile games, and a quite deserved one at that.
>>
>>3624456
>all those bond levels and their Servants will never have sex with them.
Alberich, on the other hand, might need to take care.

By the way, what DID happen to Avalon after Heaven's Feel? Is it gone for good or does it come back every time Saber does?
>>
>>3624471
The fact that the main heroine, the Servant who has the closest bond with you of anyone, is locked below max bond, really says it all. Bond level doesn't mean anything. I don't think it means anything in the Moon Cell games either. They didn't introduce it until you were running some weird Servant Army. There's no bond level in Extra or CCC, and those are the two games where Hakuno actually bonds with its Servants.

>>3624483
Avalon was in the world, didn't go into timelessness with Saber, so there's no real reason for it to come back with her.
It was dug up by the Einzberns and kept around by Kerry. Went into Shirou's body. Then Shirou's body was destroyed. I'm fairly sure it doesn't exist at this point. Either that or it's buried under Fuyuki now.
>>
>>3624493
>or it's buried under Fuyuki now
>>3624214
>in Search of a Goal
Well, that was fast. I`ll go get a shovel.
>>
>>3624493
I don't know why but for some reason I really dislike Mash.
The fucking stupid name doesn't help her much.
>>
>>3624515
>I don't know why but for some reason I really dislike Mash.
It's because she exists to get metaphorically cucked.
>>
>>3624515
I mean, the nasuverse is known for it's dumb names.
But the only one off the top of my head that sounds sillier than Mash is Riesbyfe.
>>
>>3624520
Oh, really? Do you think Animusphere is a better name?
>>
>>3624523
That's at least a last name
And they were pretty obviously going for Animus Sphere
Which turned into the hilarious Animu Sphere.
>>
>>3624516
If only she stayed dead.
"and then Mash perfectly blocked the attack with her Noble Phantasm but Oops! All heat values, so she is vaporized."
It's such a stupid way to go out.
>>
>>3624095
Patience, QM-dono. The Materials book with Abigail and Hokusai (not sure if MHXX will be included in this one) should be coming out next month.
>>
"Miss Tohsaka," you say, "there is one more rather significant risk to our operation that has not yet been discussed. Miss Ayaka and I believe that there is a high risk of the War's organizer, the Holy Church representative, finding out about our collaboration with outside forces and directing all five remaining masters to cooperate in defeating us."

"That is a concern, yes," Rin replies, "but do you have any ideas about how to deal with it?"

"The best way I can see would be to keep our communication with you and the Emiya family as distant and covert as possible. Of course we will be using cell phones to communicate once Miss Ayaka and I leave, but I had wondered if there might not be some magical method of powerful encryption with which you are familiar."

"You want to use what to communicate?" Rin is giving you a blank stare, as if you've just lost all mental cohesion and are spilling out random words.

"As I said, I had thought we might encrypt cell phone communication in some way to make it more private."

"Ugh!" Rin makes a disgusted sound, tossing her head in disdain. "No. I don't use a cell phone. They're completely ridiculous."

"They're... ridiculous?" You're flabbergasted, almost speechless for a moment. You've certainly never heard someone take such an issue with communications technology before.

"That's right," Rin says smugly. "Incomprehensible little gizmos that mundanes walk around staring at all the time. I don't understand how they managed to become so popular, when any reasonable person can live life perfectly well with a telephone at home; and as a magus, one doesn't even need to use one of those! Magical communication techniques serve perfectly well."

As you stare at Rin, dumbfounded by her sheer anachronism, Ayaka speaks up.

"Saber-san, how would you keep in touch by phone anyway? Do you have one yourself?"

"I do not," you concede uncomfortably. "I... didn't have one when I awoke in Caster's Akeldama. All the same, they are surely common things; the most convenient and widespread mode of communication for modern people. You must have one, Miss Ayaka."

"I do~," she answers hesitantly, wavering on the vowel. "It's kind of something I needed for school, you know? But I don't really use it much." It's easier to talk to people in person.

You're surrounded by people who don't use cell phones. It's a bizarre thing to consider, as you scan "your" memories of high school. Everyone used cell phones constantly: during breaks between classes, at lunch, after school; they would be on their phones at any chance they had. Even "you," although "you" didn't have a circle of friends in any real sense, made frequent use of a phone to communicate with your coworkers in the student council; and you know the vice president ran the council's social media accounts through her phone. This, you must conclude, is just one more way in which the community of magi strangely differs from ordinary people.
>>
"In that case," you say, turning back to the judgmental magus with an appraising look, "how do you suggest we communicate, Miss Tohsaka? Perhaps you have your own method of communication that can be kept secret from the Organizer."

"Magical transmission is probably out," she muses, touching a slim finger to her chin as she considers, "and I'm guessing you don't want to stay here with Shirou's family. We could always use familiars disguised as normal animals. It's a common method for Sealing Designation Enforcers in the field, I've heard, and I have a very believable rat simulacrum."

"You aren't worried the familiars would be detected?" Ayaka sounds frightened by the prospect, eying Rin nervously as she asks.

"You're overestimating the Holy Church's representative," Rin says dismissively. "He's just one man, Shijou-san; he can't scan every rat in Tokyo for magical energy on the off-chance it's being used as the messenger for a conspiracy against the Holy Grail War. Right now I'd imagine he's busy enough trying to find a safe place for Rider's Master to hide; you said you let him go, right?"

"The Master of Archer interceded for his life, yes," you answer. "You believe she would have delivered him to the organizer for his safety?"

Rin smirks in the direction of the kitchen, before replying, "Unless he was some kind of idiot with no regard for his own safety, yes."

"I suppose, then, that your familiars offer the most effective and unobtrusive means of communication for our alliance," you declare, still feeling dissatisfied with the conclusion. There ought to be some way of keeping in touch with these magi that doesn't use magic! Nothing comes to mind, however. That Einzbern girl was the same way, now that you think of it. She seemed to want you to help her family in the War, yet left you no way to contact her. Of course, that was partially your fault for storming off. You may have overreacted somewhat to her claims about your identity, but you had had quite enough of people mistaking you for an Einzbern homunculus. You can't imagine yourself reacting differently, even knowing now that it might have been more practical to hear her out. The Einzberns seem to dog your steps; from your looks, to the War, to physically following you and claiming you're an agent of theirs; you can't seem to get away from them.
>>
On reflection, though, it would be wise to learn more about the family that seems certain to involve you further in its affairs, one way or another. Whether in dealing with the Einzberns themselves or with other magi, appearing to be a member of so influential a house surely has its uses. The more you know about them, the better you can leverage your similarity. Truvietianne told you that she knew little about the Einzberns due to the distance they kept from the Mages' Association as a body, but perhaps Rin knows more. After all, she holds a higher rank in the organization and has been sent here specifically to deal with a plan of theirs. Not only that; according to Emiya, the Tohsaka family was one of those that collaborated with the Einzberns to organize the first Holy Grail War. While Emiya and his wife are still in the kitchen, you decide to ask her about the enigmatic family.

"On another topic, I wonder what you can tell me about the people orchestrating this Holy Grail War: the Einzberns," you say. "The similarity I seem to have taken on since becoming a Servant has provoked my curiosity. Who are they, exactly, and how did they come to seek the Third Sorcery with such tenacity?"

Rin gives you a level gaze, suddenly suspicious at your words. Presumably she didn't expect a randomly selected sacrifice turned Servant to know about the true purpose behind the Holy Grail War, so you quickly amend your statement.

"Emiya-san told me about the reason for the Holy Grail War, and that there were five previously held."

"I see," Rin says with a sigh. "He's quick to talk, as always. If you know about the Third Sorcery, there isn't much more I can tell you about them. The Einzbern House is secretive. Even moreso than most families of magi. They don't deal with the Mages' Association more than they have to, and only deal with the world outside their castle through intermediaries."

"Their homunculi," you suggest.

"That's what everyone knows them for," Rin says, smirking, "but no, I was referring to hired humans. Other magi, mostly, that they use as go-betweens. But you bring up a good point. The Einzberns are famous for homunculi, because no other magus family can create them. The alchemists at Atlas can do it, but they don't share their techniques with the Clock Tower; and the Einzberns can do it, but they're just as secretive. I think the reason nobody's been able to recreate the technique is because they're focusing on the wrong aspect." As she narrates, Rin becomes more animated, raising one finger in a comically academic gesture. "Everyone at the Clock Tower thinks that homunculi are a matter of bodies, but I think the Einzberns' real magic focus is on the soul."

"Interesting," you say. "Where do you draw that conclusion from?"
>>
"You mentioned it yourself," Rin says triumphantly. "The Third Sorcery! A long time ago, they supposedly held the secret to eternal life, but they lost it a thousand years ago. Since then, they've been pursuing its rediscovery. The Holy Grail War, the ritual to create the Third Sorcery, is their latest attempt, and it's gotten them the closest. The core of the Third Sorcery is the incarnation of the soul as a self-sustaining material lifeform; a mystic perpetual motion machine. If they've been researching immortality for a thousand years, and the result is a Sorcery based around the soul, it stands to reason that their other achievements during this time must also have been in soul-related magic."

"I see," you say, musing on the subject. "In that frame of reference, the homunculi would have been a natural byproduct of their research into the nature of the soul. Artificial souls, created when studying the original, and put to whatever use best suits the magi."

"It must have been something like that, yes," Rin says happily. "That was a good guess, Saber. Before you were pulled into Caster's Noble Phantasm, what department were you studying in?"

Fortunately, Emiya returns at that moment to inform you that dinner is ready, saving you from having to either invent a narrative of your imagined life as a magus or admit to having formerly lived as an ordinary student. Sakura, meanwhile, is going upstairs to call the two children down from their studies, and you can soon hear the boisterous voice of Seiji intermingling with his sister's quiet tones as they approach. This puts a definite end to discussion of magic.

Dinner is as delicious as before, consisting of minced bonito salad, octopus karaage with hot sauce, meat and potato stew, and a wide variety of tempura, including lots of shrimp. Once again you ate ravenously beyond human limits, but Emiya seems to have experience cooking for large amounts of people, so there's plenty of food.

After dinner, the children are packed off to study, read, play videogames, or whatever it is that middle-school students do between dinner and bed, and once again the six of you sit around the table. Shirou gets to his feet with a look of righteous determination in his eyes, looking ready to make a speech.

"Everyone," he begins, "we can't let this unknown Master and Servant keep attacking bystanders. There's no reason to wait. We'll go to the house that was burned down last night now, and Shijou-san can use her family's magic to trace the Servant's energy. Are you ready?"
>>
>[ ] "Miss Ayaka and I are ready. Let us be on our way, to put an end to this monstrous depredation!" (Duty)

>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] "After considering the matter, I think not. Although I've appreciated your company and food, Miss Ayaka and I will spend our night hunting Berserker." (Pride)

>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
>>
>>3624859
>>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
Of course Rin doesn't use a phone.
Fuckin magi.
also, Rin with the massive info-dumps, as always
>>
>>3624866
>Rin with the massive info-dumps, as always
I thought about having her call you Alberich-kun for old time's sake.
>>
>>3624859
>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3624859

>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
>>
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>>3624856
>our boy having a natural understanding of magecraft
Thanks for all the talent, magi.
What is Alberich's IQ anyway?
Is he a genius, or at least potentially one?
He read a book that was hardly related to what he wanted and started making manifestations of his very rare element.
>>
>>3624948
I'm not going to write down a specific IQ for Alberich, but he is very intelligent. Moreso in regards to magic than anything else. As a work of magical artifice himself, he has an intuitive sense for it.
Regarding manifestation of Nothingness, he did have help from Heiligöffnungschwert. I wouldn't say the book was hardly related, either; it was on how to manifest the five (four, really) material elements, and Nothingness fills the role of those elements in the Imaginary Numbers Realm. When you have Heiligöffnungschwert applying material properties to that imaginary element, then, it becomes very much analogous. manifesting Void would have been much harder; he can't do it yet. After that parallel was derived, it was simply a matter of putting into practice the chantless control he learned from Caster, applied to the book's elementalism.
>>
>>3624859
>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3624859
>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3624859
>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)

>>3624878
I feel like Alberich should need to earn that.
>>
>>3624859
>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
Thinking about it, maybe we can hop on the snowfield train and take a seat in the war after we reincarnate? Prelati should be watching and we'd be someone that would intrest her alot. That is of course if we're not too late
>>
>>3625059
We're about 15 years too late for that unless Sweets changes it.
And even then, the LNs aren't finished yet so nobody knows what's supposed to happen or even most of the NPs.
Regardless, unless somebody shivved Prelati in the death point, s/he'll be around.
Also you must be fucking mental to even want to go near that war.
Sure Heiligöffnungschwert could probably cut Alcides in half, but the asshole has one of those NP stealing NPs.
And he has a single use resurrection as well IIRC.
Then there's Enkidu and Gilgamesh and Humbaba
Ishtar got involved and summoned the divine bull to fuck up Enkidu and Gil
And there's a Hassan with ALL OF THE ZABINAYAS
Richard is pretty bullshit
Oh, and somebody summoned the Pale Rider, Death.

Let's just... stay away from Snowfield.
>>3624970
Interesting, it's good to have confirmation about Alberich's intelligence, at least. Benefits of being the ultimate designer baby, I guess.
>>
>>3624970
I see. Excellent.
>>
>>3625087
You forgot about the army of policemen armed with noble phantasms and the entity that can only be described as bullshit given consciousness that is berserker jack
Thinking back on it, it might be fun to see little al playing with the REAL big boys, but that war is a fucking mess and a half and should only be approached with an actual long term strategy
>>
>>3625124
Here's my long-term strategy in dealing with Snowfield.
Have Circe brainwash the US government and fucking nuke the place.
It might not deal with all of them but fuck it.
It kills all the masters.
>>
>>3625059
>>3625087
>>3625124
>>3625137
I should probably get around to reading Strange Fake, huh?
>>
>>3625124
Honestly, the rest of them are pretty small time compared to the 5 Gil tier entities (Alcides, Enkidu, Divine Bull, Humbaba, Gil himself) wandering about
>>
>>3625150
Strange Fake is actually pretty great, easily one of the best Fate related things made in the past few years
>>
>>3624859
>[x] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)

Grats on another 2k thread sweets. My phone's dying just trying to load the response form lul
>>
>>3625190
Use Kuroba.
>>
God, the more I look at Circe's official FGO stats the angrier I become.
>FGO gives Medea a skill called Teachings of Circe, straight up referring to Circe as the superior in magic (and not much else as to what it actually does, not really the point of skills, guys.)
>FGO gives Circe worse magic skills than Medea
>High Speed Divine Words: B
>her other two skills are complete unknowns
what the fuck.
>>
>>3625206
Yeah, it's pretty terrible. That's why I redid her stats when Alberich summoned her. In my canon, the summoning mechanism of Chaldea gimped her.
>>
>>3625305
That honestly makes sense. Its like the thing was made for more quantity than quality.
>>
>>3625190
Thanks! I look forward to seeing how far this one gets before it sinks to page 10.

>>3625326
Considering you need 3 Servants to clear out a couple of skeletons at the beginning of the game, I don't think anything about FGO's summoning system makes any sense. The game honestly seems as if it were carefully designed to ensure that you lose all capacity to take it seriously during the prologue.
>>
>>3625327
I never took it seriously and I still don't. Anyone who does is weird. Hell even now I just use it as ideas in my fate tabletop game.

Like Berserker Blackbeard boss with flaming shitbeard and all.
>>
>>3625327
Don't forget the fact that you have to pour all sorts of resources into Servants in order to make them not suck. I shudder to imagine how the first thread would have gone if we had a freshly-summoned FGO Circe to protect us from the bone boys of the first thread.
>>
>>3625348
It's nonsensical. Fortunately, Type:Moon's timeline segregation allows me to say that since this occurs on the F/SN timeline none of that garbage applies.
>>
Claiming post 2000 in the name of consuming the Emiya Family. More bread for the rightful King!
>>
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>>3624321
>Where would F/sn Rin and Sakura rank?
They'd move up to B, naturally. There's probably the widest quality range in that tier, now that I think about it.
>Where would Zero Rin and Sakura rank?
I think you know.
>>
>end of the war
>the emiyas are dead
>saber alter, circe and adelheid are by our side
>the other servants have been eaten
>judas' plans are in ruins
>the grail is right in front of us, waiting for us to make a wish
>suddenly, the good, the bad and the ugly starts playing
>cunt eastwood walks out from behind the grail as a ruler
None of you planned for this, did you? For shame.
>>
>>3625425
NANIIIIIIIIIII
>>
>>3625425
The ecstasy of go~ld!
>>
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>>3625425
breadfags' rw
>>
Here is the thing, would Ayaka be down for killing the Emiyas? Can she really deal being somewhat related to their deaths when they showed kindness when they first met?
>>
>>3625458
>I forgot it
Okay, I'm too tired.
>>
>>3624859
>[ ] "Certainly we are ready, but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence." (Self-Preservation)
They are such a luddites. We really need to show Ayaka "our" favourite memes. There might yet still be hope for her.
>>
>>3625469
>favourite memes
How Ogawara of you.
>>
File deleted.
>>3625469
>after winning the grail war
>>
>>3625512
>when the edit doesn't go through properly
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>>3625425
>Upgraded Colt .45, now Super Fragarach
>Adelheid shot through the heart (and you're to blame) as soon as she tries to power up with Volksgemeinschaft
>Saber Alter immediately tries to Excaliblast him and gets her head blown off
>Circe can't do shit to him because of his magic resistance
>Alberich tries to go in for the kill
>Colt .45 to the knee
>Uses Ruler Command Spell to force Alberich to kill himself
>All with a cigar and a shit-eating grin
>>
>>3625525
"There are two types of people in this world, my friend: those with command spells, and those who dig. You dig."
>>
>>3625525
The darkest timeline
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>>3625525
>"My bad, Angra; four coffins. I didn't know they'd have Saber with them."
>>
Update is partially done, but I'm too tired to write more. It's to bed for me.
Tomorrow, the great outing to the ruins. Any more speculation on the identity of our mysterious arsonist?
>>
>>3625740
Heracles mourning the death of his family?
Heracles disguised as something else by his Master?
Heracles as Vajrapani pretending to be a Berserker?
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>>3625740
Karna.
Oda Nobunaga.
Or Adelheid.
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>>3625466
She's almost certainly not going to be alright with killing them.
Hopefully we don't need to though.
Shirou is a bro.
>>
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>>3625865
>Nobunaga
>Instead of the jokester nobunobu it's this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F13mQ1G7WKM
>summoned into a regular class container
>japan fame boost
>>
>>3626007
That would be some fucky shit.
>>
>>3624843
>"Let's use Cell Phones!"
>"unga bunga me no understand cellphone"
>"do you have any suggestions, magical communication?"
>"I do have this rat."
Magi, ladies and gentlemen.
We probably should've asked Shirou.
>>
>>3625865
>Karna.
He doesn't burn down houses and kill innocents unless ordered to, and a Master willing to attract attention by burning down those houses is hardly likely to summon Karna.
>Oda
Doesn't she only have fire inside her Reality Marble?
And doesn't that fire only burn highly potent Mysteries?
>Adelheid
I've already covered why I think this is improbable, so I won't say anything here.
>>3625749
Ignore this, my brain turned off and I thought Sweets was asking about Berserker.
I have no guesses there. We don't know enough about the arsonist to figure out or speculate intelligently about their identity.
>>
>>3626110
I mean, your reasons for it not being Adelheid were fairly flimsy.
We know that she's alive somewhere. (Kinda)
We know that she needs mana like no tomorrow
We know that she's evil
We know she can use fire
We know she would have no problem killing any number of people for her own gain

Additionally, we know it's a fresh grail, so the other servants should be neutral at worst.

She fits the profile of the suspect perfectly.
We also know the fires were started by a servant

And here's a theoretical Alberich/Saber Alter daughter
>>
>>3626077
Yeah, they're pretty much the best.
>>
The real question though, is if it is Adelheid.
What do we do?
I get the feeling Diplomacy isn't going to work on the Emiyas in this scenario and I don't know if we can kill three (four if Sakura comes too) of them at the same time.
I suppose we could always try to arrive at the burnt house first.
>>
>>3619747
>Yes, I know about Harris. He's the most dangerous Sealing Designation Enforcer in the association today
>>3624843
>It's a common method for Sealing Designation Enforcers in the field
>>3626077
>wants to use the rat anyway
What the fuck happened to Rin, did she blow out half her neurons trying to use the Second? Is that why she's decided to use the rat five minutes after she basically said William will know about it?
>>
>>3626251
Everyone knows about cell phones too, but you wanted to use those. The point is that it's a very easily hidden method, even if someone expects you to be using it.
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>>3626251
Well, it's not like Harris is going to check every rat in the city, either. And if you're concerned about the rat's competence, we can always call upon Ratatoskr, who is a veteran in the field
>>
>>3626251
Clearly her status as being forever alone is starting to weigh on her mind and obstruct her logical thinking.
>>
>>3625740
Firebat from Starcraft. Classified as Lancer because he shot fire lances but have Mad Enhancement EX and believe he is in the game. Currently hunting every single one zerg player in Tokyo.
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>>3626266
"Well I have this believable rat simulac-."
"Hold on there Rin, let me see if I can summon a legendary messenger squirrel real quick."
"What."
>>
>>3626263
I don't trust you to be so kind.
And I wasn't one of the advocates for phones. If I had it my way we'd have a system of dead and live drops for daily/otherwise periodic communication; for instant communication, not only would we use an encrypted messenger app, but we would also manually encrypt our messages with a one-time pad.
>>
>>3626266
>>3626288
>we can send messages encoded as insults to the emiyas
You know what, that's a strong point in favor of Ratatoskr.
>>
But honestly I do love those "broken" summons like Fake Assassin or of Joe/Blondie/Man with No Name. Maybe one day somebody will summon Conan, John Carter, Death Dealer or Solomon Kane. Good way to spice up grail war.
>>3625425
>>3625525
>>3625544
This is why we need to summon Sentenza to even the chances.
>>
>>3626308
>Conan
He's going to be a Foreigner on the grounds that Howard and Lovecraft were friends.
>>
>>3626307
Why do you hate the Emiyas so much?
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>>3626328
because anons love canon characters reeeeeeWhat makes you think I hate them?
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>>3626328
BLOOD. Honestly anon, it's like you don't have a raging desire to see that which you cannot control brought to ruin.
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>>3626332
>anons love canon characters
I don't love them. I just don't want to wholesale slaughter them for them objectively trying to do the right thing.
It would also permanently ruin our Taiga dojos.
>>3626335
But if we get Circe back, we can literally control all of them.
I don't think Rule Breaker would be able to reverse permanent changes, such as one's brought about by Circe's brainwashing or her staff.
>>
Oh, and was TMWNN's magic resistance downgraded?
How did he resist a kill self command with only a B?
>>
>>3626326
You can kind of put him in almost every class to be honest.
The Tower of the Elephant, The God in the Bowl should be enough for a proper Assassin summon.
Most common perception as The Barbarian and his feets of rage power ups more than qualify him for Berserker.
I can see his later years as a king could make him being able to be Ruler.
Saber is THE class since it most prominent way Howard was writing him.
Rider is also fairly easy since Conan was notorious pirate captain and kozak leader.
He can also be Pseudo-Servant with Crom.
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>>3626348
>feets of rage
For fucks sake anon.
Feats.

It's feats.
>>
>>3626348
Also
>still not knowing what the Ruler class means
God damn it.
>>
>>3626347
>Oh, and was TMWNN's magic resistance downgraded?
That's correct. IIRC, all of his stats dropped by a rank after he withstood the suicide command.

>>3626348
>The Tower of the Elephant
Now I'm remembering Alien Ganesh. What a weird story.
>>
>>3626354
Tired eyes did not catch it, sorry.
>>3626358
I am pretty sure amount of skills he shown, deeds, legends and related artifacts held during his years as a pirate or life in general more qualify him as a Rider.
>>
>>3626363
And that fucker still got Rider. Goddamn Archers....
>>
>>3626364
>bring up Ruler
>starts talking about Rider
R u ok
Ruler doesn't mean "Ruler of Men"
To be a Ruler you must have no wish for the grail and be impartial.
The name of the class should've been "Judge" if anything.
>>
>>3626372
It should've been a Servant the Overseer was allowed to summon.
The Overseer would regulate the Masters, while his own Servant would regulate the others because you can't expect an average Executor to stand up against enemies of that level.
>>
>>3626302
>dead drops
This is a perfect illustration of my point. Dead drops are a famous way of secretly conveying information. Everyone knows about them, including Harris. Knowing about the idea of a dead drop, however, doesn't make it any easier to find the actual secret message hidden somewhere in the city. A familiar disguised as an ordinary animal is the same way. Magi may know their competitors are sending messages around on rat simulacra, but they don't have the luxury of patting down every rat in the city to find the one with the message; or of rifling through every trash can in search of a dead drop.
Intelligence services in the 19th century did the same thing with pigeons. Every spy in France knew the Germans used pigeons to carry military information during the Franco-Prussian War, and every Prussian agent knew the French did the same thing, but nobody could intercept the messages unless they were willing to shoot every pigeon out of the sky in hopes of finding the right one.
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>>3626372
>R u ok
Apparently not.
>To be a Ruler you must have no wish for the grail and be impartial.
I am pretty sure I remember his inner monologs and few dialongs in stories describing his time as a king being about him accepting role of incredibly just and fair king to a point of refusing to silence vocal critics and do first strike at treacherous nobility. Being more of a generous care taker rather than brash king. That and his general attitude of not trusting easy ways, magic and preaching about doing things yourself as a man.
>>3626363
One of my favourites among The People of the Black Circle and Beyond the Black River.
>>
>>3626389
My problem is not that Harris knows about the rats, it is specifically that he might have methods to track and detect our rat instead of patting down every rat in the city -- he's likely had to do something similar in the past if he's ever gone on deep infiltration and suspected that a target was sending messages outside, or would at least have the theoretical knowledge of how to do that.
I think a dead drop with a fixed location and a known environment is easier to conceal and protect than a mobile rat that needs constant tracking and could be intercepted; even if constant observation is granted, the tracking spell could make the rat more difficult to conceal as an ordinary one.

However, I can't come up with any arguments against doing all of these things.
>>
>>3626404
Conan would be weak as shit regardless.
Explicitly fictional and under 100 years old isn't generally a great combo for a powerful servant.
MWNN was OP because in a way, he represents the Wild West and the whole mythos about it.
>>
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Saber Alter shall be ours.
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>>3626592
Hope so.
I wish however there was some clear target to work towards in that regard. Grinding magus skills is useful in itself yet we do not have exact method to achieve Saber Alter ownership in sight and I am doubt it will be in some random book in Shijou library.
>>
>>3626616
Alberich is a magecraft super prodigy with access to bullshit land, so he might be able to discover some way to alter her again.
>>
>>3626665
>might
That is the operative word. Let's not act like we can until we can.
>>
You know, I wish they'd had Kadowaki Mai play Irisviel in F/0. It'd be a great character detail if all the Justeaze-model homunculi had the same voice as well as their visual similarity.
>>
>>3626670
Sweets did say it was possible, so we probably just need to focus on the right magecraft.
You can't stop my dream of the Alberich, Adelheid, Circe and Saber Alter team.
>>
>>3626677
Speaking of homonculi, Have you picked a VA for Lilie yet?
>>
>>3626695
You've read my mind. The search for her VA is what made me consider the subject of my last post in the first place.
I'm trying to find the perfect "koakuma princess" voice for her, but it's tough. I'm too much of a perfectionist, even when working with hypotheticals.
>>
>>3626686
>focus on the right magecraft
This is the point I was trying to make.
Thus far we have:
"Forms of Power"
"Introduction to Structural Energy Systems"
and some more "Transcendental Principles of Elementalism" training we can do.
Plus whatever could possibly be in your average magus library.
There is also Vaisset`s research notes and trying to meditate into meeting Judas.
I really don`t think we can find "How to get Alters for Dummies" in library so no clear path yet and we can only take wild guess which thing to study first.
We know we can do it OOC but we do need to find right track for it IC for it to actually happen.
>>
>>3626686
>Sweets did say it was possible
Possible is not the same as likely, worth the effort or a good idea.
We are in a grail war and don't have the luxury of endless amounts of time nor do we have the luxury of keeping saber alive when she confronts us just so we can corrupt her later. It also would be hard to explain to the Emiyas why we corrupted her or know how to do so.
>>
>>3626703
>koakuma
Man, talk about vague,.I get it and don't get it at the same time. I had Hidaka Rina, Ogura Yui and Watanabe Keiko who voiced an Imas loli (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rv7LEv9QzI) in mind but they don't quite have the same feel as Illya.
>>
>>3626719
Depending on how long lived our alliance is, we can also quiz Rin.

Really though I'd like to learn from Circe.
brainwash/rewrite Emiyas, yes or no?
>>3626726
You know anon, after we've managed to corrupt Saber I don't believe they'll want to talk. They'll also probably rudely keep calling us Angra Mainyu.
We don't have unlimited time, but we can read and comprehend magecraft books in a few hours.
Alberich is quite the genius in magecraft.
>>
>>3626736
>Vague
Yeah, it;s kind of hard to pin down what I'm going for. Illyasviel is already a fairly complex character, so then writing a character who shares her background and has similar characteristics, while also differing due to the progression of circumstances and her own life is...
Anyway, to expand on what I mean: a character who's been spoiled and protected, but also has a more rational side that comes out at times. Someone mischievous, but also sweet. A character pampered materially but starved of real affection, leading to a warped outlook. A character who's demanding and weak; domineering and fragile; prideful and sensitive. Not a tsundere, but someone with tsundere-like contradictions. Above all an emotional character. Is that making more sense?

>Ogura Yui
One of the VAs I had in mind. I loved her as Tsutsukakushi, but I don't think she's suitable for Liliesviel. Too restrained in most of her performances.
>Watanabe Keiko
She's done very little, so I can only judge by the clip you posted. I'm not much of a fan.
>Hidaka Rina
Interesting. Scanning through her roles, I've seen several things with her, but don't have a strong memory of her style. I'll watch a few clips and follow up.
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>>3626747
>You know anon, after we've managed to corrupt Saber I don't believe they'll want to talk. They'll also probably rudely keep calling us Angra Mainyu.
Sounds like this would be a problem for all those who want to keep them alive.
>We don't have unlimited time, but we can read and comprehend magecraft books in a few hours.
>Alberich is quite the genius in magecraft.
Most of the books we have read were about very basic techniques. The jump from learning very basic things out of a book to pioneering a way to corrupt people from scratch is pretty big even for a genius. And somehow I doubt one of the books will conveniently be about how to corrupt a servant someone.
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>>3626766
>Sounds like this would be a problem for all those who want to keep them alive.
We can either brainwash or restrain them all, with Circe's help, if she's around.
Honestly if we capture them we can do whatever we want with them.
Caster's Wand is great for that.

As for the books, we still learnt how to do something new in a few hours.
Alberich should read some cookbooks too.
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>>3626760
>Someone mischievous, but also sweet.
This is the aspect I was focusing on. A sweet-sounding little girl who can charm you into doing some horrible things for her. Her rational side which adds an aspect of maturity to her voice means the other VAs I had in mind either sounds too young or too mature.
So, one final suggestion: Fujii Yukiyo, who voiced a princess who wears an innocent persona to hide her deceitful character.
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_007.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_008.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_323.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_331.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_314.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_198.mp3
http://game-a5.granbluefantasy.jp/assets/sound/voice/3040168000_v_179.mp3
Finding the right soundbites is a huge pain in the ass because the files are haphazardly sorted.
>mfw
>>
Couldn't Circe's magic alter saber for us if we captured her?
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>>3626887
Having Circe's help certainly wouldn't hurt.
>>
>>3626899
Though Circe might take issue with us slowly being surronded by more and more women.
(We should probably take her on a proper date if we find her.)
Ayaka
Saber Alter (If all goes well.)
Adelheid
Kikuko
Lily (Maybe)
Truvi (Maybe)
Rin and Rider (Huge Maybe and only if Emiya crew is brainwashed, even so, too old for Alberich unless we have Circe de-age them for the hell of it)
>>
>>3626960
I wonder if Alberich ever thinks "y my pp big" off-screen. He's only 3 weeks old.
>>
As you look around the table, you can see the occupants giving Emiya their various responses. Rider nods, a determined expression on her face.

"Promise me you'll be careful, Senpai. Don't fight if the enemy is too strong," Sakura says, insisting on her husband's safety with a worried gaze.

"I'm ready," Rin says with a smile, "but this is the first I've heard of Shijou-san being able to track the Servant we're looking for. That's very good, Shijou-san."

"Thank you," Ayaka says, easily embarrassed by the praise. "My family is sort of specialized in spirits." She looks at you; expecting, you realize, for you to give Emiya an answer for the both of you.

"Certainly we are ready," you say, getting to your feet to face Emiya "but I'd object to all traipsing off together. Miss Ayaka and I ought to travel separately, and appear to meet you by coincidence. Do you have the address of this attacked building?"

"Well, yes," Emiya answers, looking put off by your suggestion to split up. "Why not go together, though? It's safer to stay together. There are enemy Servants around after dark, you know."

Resisting the urge to point out the uselessness of such an obvious reminder, you just sigh. "Emiya-san," you say, in a tone reflecting your exasperation, "as I was discussing with Miss Tohsaka while you were cooking, this War has an overseer dispatched by the Holy Church, who will likely alert the other Masters and set them all against us at once if he learns that Miss Ayaka and I are collaborating with an outside force against the War itself. We cannot afford to be seen working with you unless it appears to be by accident. We must go separately."

"Alright, fine," Emiya says irritably, conceding with bad grace. "Here." He fishes a scrap of paper out of his pocket and writes an address down on it, passing it over the table to you. "Try not to go too far out of the way. We need to move fast to catch whoever's doing this."

"Of course," you answer absently, looking at the paper rather than Emiya. Fortunately you can place the address as being relatively close by. It shouldn't take long to get there, particularly now that you can carry Ayaka and move at your own pace, darkness having fallen. "We'll see you shortly, then," you say to Emiya, and turn to quickly leave. Ayaka trails behind you as you step out into the cool night air, enjoying the moment of silence and separation from Emiya's vibrant home life.

"Saber-san," Ayaka begins curiously, "why did you just walk out and leave them like that? It was a bit cold of you."
>>
>>3626991
He has the false memories of an 18 year old. If you think about it, it's quite nice that Judas magicked away all that "puberty" and "adolescence" and "childhood" for us. We can get right to the business of commanding and conquering.
>>
"We mustn't get too attached to the Emiya family, Miss Ayaka," you answer. "Remember that everyone in that house wants to prevent the Holy Grail War from being completed. The very ritual that is your family legacy and my only opportunity to live past the end of this War, they intend to stop. We may be collaborating with them for the time being, in order to gain an advantage against the other Masters, but they will be our enemies eventually. On the subject of that temporary collaboration, though, we should be on our way." So saying, you scoop Ayaka up into your arms, holding her with one arm supporting her legs and the other about her shoulders.

"Hey!" Ayaka protests with an indignant squeal at the sudden shift, but soon quiets down as you hop lightly up to a rooftop and begin going from building to building, hurrying along in the hopes of arriving at your destination before Emiya's group. As you pick up speed the wind begins to bite, and Ayaka clings to your jacket, burying her face in your chest to protect it from the cold. You hold Ayaka close as you move, your two silhouettes merging into a single shadow gliding over the nighttime streets, hidden from the eyes of passersby.

After you've covered a bit of distance, Ayaka speaks up again.

"I see what you mean, about needing to fight the Emiyas eventually to stop them from ruining the Grail War," the girl says, "but are you really sure we have to? I mean, they do all seem like good people. Maybe if you told them you only want to survive, they'd agree to help us."

"I doubt it," you answer, a derisive tone giving more venom to your words than they ought to carry. "That Emiya, he has a happy, ordinary life, a home, and a family; he doesn't want to be a magus or care about magical research, he said as much; and he believes the Holy Grail contains enough unrestrained power to destroy this land, or more. I don't know whether to believe him, but what I am certain of is his belief. Do you suppose someone in that situation will be willing to risk throwing away what matters most to him in order to give me life?"

"I guess not," Ayaka murmurs, disheartened. "But maybe you could convince them that we'd be able to control the Holy Grail and use it properly."
>>
"Even if that were possible," you answer, "which I doubt; there's the Tohsaka woman to consider. She's been sent by some faction at the Clock Tower to stop the Holy Grail War. Possibly this is because those behind her are opposed to either the Barthomeloi or to whatever Clock Tower authority dispatched Harris, and she will be more accepting of another victor. Possibly she has been sent by her Sorcerer master to ensure than no new Sorcery enters the world to threaten his position. Then again, she may have some other motive altogether. In any case we cannot rely on an appeal to her sympathy. We must be prepared to face all of these outsiders, these interlopers intruding on your family's domain with no permission from the Shijou, as enemies without remorse. To do so we must not become too close with them."

"I see," Ayaka says sadly. "But then, if you've thought all this out, why not play up being their friend? It might make it easier to fight them if they're reluctant."

"They wouldn't be the only ones reluctant," you say, putting some warmth into your voice to draw back from the calculating impression you've been giving. "Part of this is for your benefit, Miss Ayaka. I haven't forgotten your sympathy for the doves your mother bade you sacrifice. I don't want you to be hurt, when the time comes."

Then you're there, at the address Emiya gave you. It was once a medium-sized house, with two floors and a moderate footprint, nestled side-by-side with similar homes. Not very different from Emiya's house, or the home Yumigawa Rushorou grew up in. Now it's a charred skeleton, looming over a pile of ash and burned debris; a ragged black shadow standing out from the well-kept domiciles under suburban streetlights like a rotten tooth among the white. If you hadn't seen so many similar sights in the First City of the Akeldama, you might find it shocking. As it is, the sight is simply a confirmation. As you land on the sidewalk a short distance from the ruin, you set Ayaka down on her feet. Emiya's group is already there, having come by another road. Apparently Emiya and Tohsaka are the sort of magi who can enhance their bodies well, if they could keep up with Rider and beat you here. Of course, taking the direct route while you circled around surely helped their progress.

"Master of Rider! I see you continue to trail behind this hunter of the mundane, as I knew you would. How lovely, how lovely, that tonight you have brought with you additional sacrifices to our battle! Another Servant and two magi, I see; you really are generous, or perhaps it is simply my overwhelming fortune."
>>
While you're approaching Emiya's group, a voice suddenly resounds from the opposite direction, down the road. Following the sound to its origin, you see a man standing on the roof of the house adjacent to the ruin, wearing a tuxedo of all things. Beyond his absurd outfit, it's difficult to make out much about his features in the dark, but his arrogant voice is prominent enough to make up for any visual lack. He isn't so much speaking as proclaiming, as if he were a stage actor delivering a soliloquy to the audience.

"So you're Berserker's Master, huh? Why show yourself tonight, when you stayed hidden before?" As Emiya calls up to the arrogant-seeming magus he, Rin, and Rider get into a triangular formation with Emiya and Rider in front, positioned to defend Rin.

"At that time, I was still gauging your ability. Once I determined you were no threat alone, I knew that a duel against you would be no fitting stage for me. Now that you have come in greater numbers, however, the time is finally ripe for Giuliano di Lumenza, the Master of Berserker, to demonstrate his prowess! Now, my Servant, strike them down!"

Lumenza levels a hand at Emiya, and beside him magical energy coalesces into the form of a man, hidden by a voluminous shadowy robe. In a moment, he will no doubt leap down to attack Emiya.

>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)

>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Do something else (Write in)
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
This might be the worse choice, but I can't resist the temptation of diving into yet another massive battle.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
Time to Saber.
Emiya mentioned his fighting style was basic, no?
Eye of the Mind will see us through in that case.
>>
>>3627004
>>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
Might as well. Fucking beats standing back doing nothing and facing accusations of being a shitty ally.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Leap into the fray
Aw yeah, time to get our sword bootlegged by Shirou.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
Make sure we have our weird ribbon thing available to help us out in a pinch.
>>
>>3627004
>>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
That guy's arrogance will get him killed. Berserker is one of the worst match ups against us.
>>
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>>>3627004
"Hey!" Ayaka protests with an indignant squeal at the sudden shift, but soon quiets down as you hop lightly up to a rooftop and begin going from building to building, hurrying along in the hopes of arriving at your destination before Emiya's group. As you pick up speed the wind begins to bite, and Ayaka clings to your jacket, burying her face in your chest to protect it from the cold. You hold Ayaka close as you move, your two silhouettes merging into a single shadow gliding over the nighttime streets, hidden from the eyes of passersby.
Cute!
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
We'll be more useful if we work out the best tactic and strike at an opportune moment.
>>
>>3627032
If this berserker can survive hits from an A rank Anti-World NP we're fucked anyway.
Ree Shirou don't even think about tracing our fucking sword.
I hope it gives you a headache trying.

Considering it's probably the same as our cloak, which was made out of our hand, I wonder if that makes it so our sword is made of materials foreign to the world.

We were born in Imaginary number space, after all.
He'd be unlikely to be able to activate it too.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
Let's wait and not get caught in the crossfire.
I also have a meta reason to but I won't say it.
>>
>>3627039
It's a traditional Berserker.
What sort of benefit do you think we'll get from watching it trounce them for a while?
Ayaka needs to set up the ritual, we'll one shot this asshole.
>>
>>3627050
Alright, spill it.
Why would we not get involved?
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
Man wouldn't be funny if we just one shot this guys servant after he did that big speech
>>
>>3627004
>[X] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)

Remember the last time we left our master unguarded?
>>
>>3627060
Completely different scenarios.
We're the ambusher now.
>>
>>3627039
The guy's just an unga bunga kick-punch machine. We'll figure something out.
>>
>>3627041
>If this berserker can survive hits from an A rank Anti-World NP we're fucked anyway.
That's why this is a really bad match up for them.
If Berserker wants to attack us and we block with our sword it's not going to be us whose weapons and limbs are shredded.
>>
I will add anons, don't get your hopes up too much. No way sweets gives us a perfect matchup right after we aced the Rider fight.
>>
>>3627063
Yeah.
Also Shirou will think our sword is cool as fuck if it insta-KOs a Servant.
I'd be annoyed if he could trace it but it's not the end of the world.
>>
>>3627067
We only aced the Rider fight because anons suddenly became hyper-competent.
Our Sword, as it is right now, should bypass almost any defence put against it.
Even Achilles' Bullshit Shield wouldn't stop it.
Anti-World is fucking bullshit.
>>
>>3627067
Sometimes you have easy fights. We also have some enemies who will be a bitch to fight.
Archer for example will make it very hard to leverage our abilities with him staying at range.
Lancer is less bad, but they generally are fast and skilled enough to deal with our abilities.
The Saber of this war is also fast and skilled enough not to make it an easy fight.
>>
>>3627057
I think you're focusing too much on the Berserker.
>>
>>3626736
I'm leaning towards Hidaka Rina now after revisiting some of her performances. Although her standard character type isn't exactly Liliesviel, I really quite like her voice.

>>3626881
Fujii Yukiyo sounds a bit too husky, judging from these soundbites.
>>
>>3627074
Explain Further.
You mean the Master?
Cybele?
Getting our sword traced?
>>
>>3627083
Yes, mainly Cybele.
>>
Here's hoping our sword wouldn't be no sell'd again.

>>3627075
>Fujii Yukiyo sounds a bit too husky
Damn. I was confident that she has the range to pull it off but, oh well.
>>
>>3627089
The sword doesn't make the man- the man makes the sword. If berserker outfights us (which he shouldn't, because Madness), he will win.
>>
Basakah is also probably stronger and faster than us, by the way.
>>
>>3627086
We have B Rank Mana which means we are not necessarily affected by them. Our affinity for the gods is probably also useful since her eyes are said to be a curse from the gods and made out of imaginary stuff.
Regardless it is unlikely that she would use them when we are so close to Shirou and he has even less defense against them than we.
>>
>>3627086
She's unlikely to open with it, she has allies around and she can cancel it very quickly even should we look at her.

>>3627094
Eye of the mind true vs full on Berserker with most of his skill gone. EMIYA managed to kill Berserker a shit ton under worse circumstances.
Berserk Roland was also faster and stronger than us, yet he is dead and we live.
>>
>>3627089
Well, I'm just judging from the links you posted; they're rather husky.
She sounded different in Amagi Brilliant Park, and does a few different "cute" roles. There, though, I'd say she sounds more like "someone trying to sound cute" than like an actual loli character. Overall, I've settled on Hidaka Rina!

With that settled, I can now present the voice cast of all characters appearing so far in Fate/City Akeldama and Fate/Awakening Mirror, in order of appearance!

Fate/City Akeldama:
Yumigawa Rushorou: Kamiya Hiroshi
Matsuda Ryuuta: Ono Daisuke
Ogawara Yatsuhide: Ogata Megumi
Caster (Circe): Akaneya Himika
Cid Ajisartous (Caster): Nakata Jouji
Truvietianne Edelfelt: Kugimiya Rie
Lancer (Perseus): Miyano Mamoru
Sean O'Mordha: Shiraishi Minoru
Saber (Justinian I): Morikawa Toshiyuki
Archer (The Man with No Name): Clint Eastwood
Munahara Kikuko: Ookubo Rumi
Keiseki Saburou: Miki Shinichiro
Rider (Blackbeard): Wakamoto Norio
Berserker ("Adelheid"): Yuuki Aoi
Assassin (Robin Hood): Toriumi Kousuke
Joe Ambrose: Takagi Wataru
Jack DeLancey: Kamiya Akira

Fate/Awakening Mirror:
Jean-Pierre Vaisset (Shijou Hirahide): Horikawa Ryo
Saber (Alberich): Narita Ken
Shijou Ayaka (Anne-Marie Vaisset): Hanazawa Kana
Emiya Shirou: Suwabe Junichi
Emiya Sakura: Shitaya Noriko
Emiya Kaori: Chihara Minori
Emiya Seiji: Kaji Yuki
Rider of Fuyuki: Asakawa Yuu
Liliesviel von Einzbern: Hidaka Rina
Otto Niemand: Utsumi Kenji
William Harris: Ōtsuka Akio
First Saber: Kawasumi Ayako
Rider (Roland): Fujita Yoshinori
Kajiwara Haruo: Takahashi Hiroki
Akagata Kyouka: Ohara Sayaka
Archer: Sugita Tomokazu
Judas Iscariot (Caster): Nakata Jouji
Tohsaka Rin: Ueda Kana
Giuliano di Lumenza: Koyasu Takehito
>>
>>3627112
>William Harris: Ōtsuka Akio
>Archer: Sugita Tomokazu
>Giuliano di Lumenza: Koyasu Takehito
Wew lad. Harris just got a lot better in my eyes.
>>
>>3627124
Oh fuck, he's got the same voice as Japanese Solid Snake.
And Iskandar.
>>
>>3627126
>>3627124
Scene from a briefing room in London:
"It's been a long time, William."
"Marshall. I should have known you were behind this. Got a plan you can't have done through an official sealing designation?"
"That's no way to greet an old combat buddy, Harris."
"What do you want from me?"
"We need you to travel to Japan, Harris. It's a matter concerning a weapon that could throw the Moonlit World into chaos: the Holy Grail."
"The Holy Grail? I thought that all got cleared up years ago."
"So did we. But the Einzberns are up to their old tricks."
"The Einzberns, huh? So what's the target, exactly?"
"You're to eliminate the other six Masters and retrieve the Grail. Bring the secret of that ritual here to the Clock Tower, at any cost."
"Six Masters. You sending anyone with me?"
"As usual, this is a one-man covert elimination mission. You'll be our only agent in Tokyo."
"Huh. What about weapons and equipment?"
"Only what you can procure on-site, I'm afraid. You'll have to go in as a civilian, and blend in with the crowd."
"I see. Any other information you've got for me?"
"We've prepared dossiers on the other magi we know will be participating, but several slots are still uncertain. There's background information on the War in that folder, too. Good reading material for the plane ride."
"I'll bet. When does the mission begin?"
"Pack your bags. You're leaving tomorrow. And remember, Harris. This is a stealth mission. Eliminating witnesses may be protocol, but try to keep it to a minimum."
"Heh. I'll keep it in mind."
>>
God I hope this works.
Would suck for pridefags if this killed us.
And from what we've been told it seems the logical decision.
>just fucking drop out of the sky and insta-kill the traditionally physically strongest servant
Better hope Ayaka gets that ritual up fast.
>>
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>>3627157
Oh yeah, I can hear it now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu0DD9szhpo

>>3627159
Good thing we brought 'allies'.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3627159
You know he can see you, right? Lumenza talked about you being there and everything. You're just standing like half a block behind Emiya's group, on the sidewalk.
>>
>>3627175
Oh well.
Even less reason to hang back.
>>
>>3627175
If that's the case,

>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
>>3627176
Also, he'll likely make the old Einzbern mistaken identity gaff.
Nobody expects an Einzbern to suddenly go full Saber.
He'd probably retreat if he knew what he was up against.
>>
>>3627175
That doesn't prevent us from dropping from the sky nor from killing Berserker.
And while Lumenza can see us it's Berserker who fights and Berserkers aren't known for their situational awareness, especially since this one would believe in his defense.
>>
>>3627185
>>3627186
I swear to fuck, if this causes our first death... Then again, Taiga must be getting ronery.
>>
>>3627206
Based on what we know in character, this is the logical choice.
>>
>>3627206
Then literally anything could cause our death. This is one of the best situations for us and if even now we hesitate to act for fear of death then we would never act and always react.
Always reacting and never acting is a good way to be killed too.
>>
>>3627212
Also it's about time for the cut through anything sword to stopped getting cockblocked harder that Cu's Gae Bolg in a room full of A-rank luck servants.
Gay Bulge vs Raw Ass jokes will never not be funny
>>
>>3627004
So it's the Barthomeloi proxy. I should have guessed. Vaisset told us that he specializes in fire. I suppose "hunter of the mundane" refers to himself - he's probably been wiping out families and setting the fires with the intention of drawing someone out.
Time for a plan.
According to Vaisset:
>He's a fire-user, a magic gunner, and very dangerous.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3491019/#p3498594
With that in mind, it's probably not a good idea to keep our eyes on Berserker, since Lumenza could try to shoot someone while we're focused on the scuffle. Nor is it entirely safe to charge right in, since he was powerful enough to drive off Rider and Shirou, though they survived. Magically-charged guns are probably also capable of harming Servants, which is further bad news for us. We'd best not give him the chance to use them.
I'd also like to remind everyone that this is the guy with a better chance at killing the experienced mage Vaisset than even Harris, and appears to have no remorse about murdering random civies and burning their homes to the ground. I'm going to make a suggestion in the interest of protecting everyone on our side. Feel free to provide feedback, since I don't know if it's really the best course of action:
>[ ] Let Berserker go after Emiya. As soon as Berserker isn't there to defend him, attack Lumenza. If he pulls out a gun, use Mind's Eye to read the shot and block it with the indestructible Heiligöffnungschwert - while Kenotis might seem like a better choice, there's no way he's a faster or better shot than Archer, so this should be fairly easy for us as a Servant - and cut his hands off, or at least destroy his gun. If he uses a command spell to tell Berserker to defend him, use HOS to chop him in half.

>>3627107
>Berserk Roland was also faster and stronger than us, yet he is dead and we live.
That's not quite true. Orlando Furioso was only faster than us, not stronger. It's also worth noting that we fought defensively against him.

>>3627112
Jesus, I never realized just how many characters there are. I guess that's multiple Grail Wars for you.

>>3627185
He doesn't appear to have made that mistake, just like Rin didn't.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
I would go after the master while Berserker is distracted, but I feel that runs the risk of us being unable to get his energy since it technically wouldn't be our kill.
>>
>>3627000
>"Master of Rider! I see you continue to trail behind this hunter of the mundane, as I knew you would.
Holy shit, does he think Shirou is a legitimate master of the Grail War? How many people besides Caster... and I think Archer knew about the real Rider?
>>
>>3627225
>completely forgetting we have Magic Resistance B
Lol fuck his magic guns.
Also, it specifically wasn't this guy burning the houses
>It was a Servant, and I'd be able to recognize the same Servant's energy again if we encountered them
THEN they were attacked by Berserker. Nobody made reference to this Berserker as the one burning the houses.
>>
>>3627241
Yeah.
The Hag of Archer has an alliance with the true Master of Rider.
Lily also knows because of her servant telling her.
I think that it's also safe to assume that since the True Master of Rider was picked out so late, Harris doesn't have this info.
That's all we know for sure.
>>
>>3627254
Oh wait, did I confuse Caster with Archer's master?
Lily as well, totally forgot she knew.
But if only 2 other masters (and I guess the Church depending on if Archer's master legitimately took him to safety), that'll open up some interesting options for the Emiya crew.
>>
>>3627225
>That's not quite true. Orlando Furioso was only faster than us, not stronger. It's also worth noting that we fought defensively against him.
You are forgetting that strength doesn't really help against us anyway and that Rider was mostly a danger because his sword could ignore our ability to break it which was the main reason Rider was so dangerous.
>Plan
It's not bad, but as someone pointed out we might not get to absorb Berserker and we have harder fights in our future.
>>
>>3627225
You're also forgetting that Rin is running support and would likely be able to intercept his attacks.
>>
>>3627261
I totally fucking did, Judas was the Caster, wtf is wrong with me.
>>
>>3627248
I didn't forget about Magic Resistance. It's entirely plausible that he has guns that are designed to be capable of harming Servants. As I recall, Kiritsugu makes a reference to such weapons in Fate/Zero.
I wasn't suggesting that Berserker started the fire, I was suggesting that Lumenza set the fires magically, but if it's guaranteed that a Servant did it, then Lumenza is out.

>>3627263
>You are forgetting that strength doesn't really help against us anyway
Only if we use our NPs right out of the gate. Any attempt to fight without using our NPs, and strength will undoubtedly be a factor.
>we might not get to absorb Berserker
This is my main concern with my plan, which is why I didn't suggest we kill Lumenza outright.

>>3627268
Only attacks aimed at the Emiyas. Rin is some distance away and can't protect Ayaka if we rocket off now, so I think we either need to attack Lumenza or remain where we are.
>>
>>3627225
>Jesus, I never realized just how many characters there are. I guess that's multiple Grail Wars for you.
That's why it took me so long to get a full VA list out, yeah. Had to put careful thought into all of those voices.
>>
>>3627261
>>3627270
It's ok famo. Shit happens to the best of us.
>>
>>3627280
>Only if we use our NPs right out of the gate. Any attempt to fight without using our NPs, and strength will undoubtedly be a factor.
Why wouldn't we use HOS as our sword? And the cut through anything seems to be more a property than a real activation.
>>
>>3627282
Yeah, you're quite meticulous about your casting, which is first time I've seen anyone do that. Even shot down two of my best suggestions, but I guess that Dream Crusher skill isn't for show.
>>
>>3627282
It's very thorough and the amount of attention it's been given is evident.
Now, I hate to do this to you after putting so much work in, but it's not quite full yet...
You don't have voices for Stengel and Stachel. Alberich hasn't met them yet, but they did appear.

>>3627293
Luckeschwert needed to be activated, as does Kenotis, so I assume HOS does too.
>>
>>3627280
I would imagine Kiritsugu was talking about weapons made with enough mystery to harm any servants at all.
Most can't.
Magic Resistance should pretty much fuck over anything magical he could do, regardless.
We're a Servant now. Don't underestimate what that should mean.
>>
>>3627301
>Luckeschwert needed to be activated, as does Kenotis, so I assume HOS does too.
Then we activate it. It's not as if we have a reason to hold back.
>>
>>3627301
Didn't it take Durandal's Quality of cutting through anything and apply it to the portal effect for it to always be active?
I would assume the miracles are what require true name activation now.
Regardless, we have no need to keep it's true name a secret.
>>
>>3627302
>We're a Servant now.
Yes, but also no. We may be a Servant, but we're not dead yet, and our body yet retains some of its physical limitations.

>>3627306
Personally, I'm wary of revealing our powers to everyone we meet as soon as possible, especially since they get no-sold so often. But regardless, I think leaving Ayaka unguarded against a man with a gun is a bad idea.

>>3627314
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we've tested whether or not that's true yet.
>>
>>3627301
>You don't have voices for Stengel and Stachel.
GAH! You noticed! I haven't picked voices out for them yet, but I got excited over having everyone else decided on and threw this out there in the hopes it would slip by!
>>
>>3627322
>Personally, I'm wary of revealing our powers to everyone we meet as soon as possible, especially since they get no-sold so often.
The true extent sure, but the cut through anything ability isn't something we need to keep secret. The advantage of not being surprised by it isn't big, since even if you know about it while it is active you can't block, parry or risk getting blocked.

Frankly handicapping ourselves so we don't reveal our abilities isn't a good idea.
>>
>>3627322
>Yes, but also no.
We're as much a Servant as Arturia is.
We're a Servant but not a heroic spirit. We're still stronger than almost every single person in the world just by virtue of that.
Kotomine and Kiritsugu in their primes would have major difficulty attempting to beat Caster or Assassin even when those Servants are at their weakest.
>Revealing our powers
C'mon
Shirou is here.
He probably knows what we can do as soon as he sees our sword unless it gives him a headache.

Stop being so paranoid.
The asshole is a Magus trying to demonstrate his superiority, pragmatism isn't usually their forte.
>>
We've got 7/5/1 for Pride/SP/Custom right now. If anyone hasn't gotten their vote in yet, this could still go either way.
>>
>>3627403
Just woke up, been catching up on all of this.
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
While I want to jump in, I also want to keep Ayaka safe so she can set up the ritual and get a feel for Berserker's physical stats as well as some insight into his invincibility. Shirou and Rider can handle themselves.
>>
>>3627333
>>3627343
Fair enough, but Lumenza is still a problem.

>>3627403
I'm changing my vote to SP. I don't feel good about leaving Ayaka unattended on range of a gun.
>>
>>3627412
>Just woke up, been catching up on all of this.
Any thoughts on the voice cast?
>>
>>3627414
>putting us in a tie
I can't believe you've done this
>>
>>3627016
>>3627403
Switching to SP as well. Standing around sucks, but Lumenza having a magic gun is concerning.
Though I do want to see a dojo session where Ayaka is with us because she got shot.
>>
>>3627416
Not really, sorry.
>>
>>3627417
Fuck it, against my instincts, I'll switch to SP too.
If this fucks us over and somebody dies I swear to fuck.
>>
>>3627004

>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)

Best to develop a proper strategy for seeing how to deal with Berserker, also keep Ayaka safe in case this Spahgetti eating fuck decides on trying to shoot her. Also, time to taunt the shit magus

>"It's easy to be arrogant by sending in your Servant while you stay back and watch! Helps to understand the state of modern magi that a demonstration of prowess is standing back and letting something far more powerful than you do all the work!"
>>
>>3627004
>>3627238
Changing vote to
>[ ] Leap into the fray
>>
>>3627004
>>3627487

Swapping from observing to rushing into the fray. We beat this asshole in numbers, Shirou, Rin and Rider would be able to keep Ayaka safe while we deal with Berserker head on
>>
The real question is whether or not Sweets has started writing the update or not...
>>
>>3627557
Ayaka is actually far away from the others.

By the way, Sweets, does Mind's Eye(True) get better with the more information we have?
>>
>>3627004
>>[X] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
>>3627562

Well in any case I believe it's better we deal with the Servant while the Magi deal with Kayneth 2: Italian Boogaloo
>>
>>3627561
>Anon asks the hard-hitting questions. The serious questions.

>>3627562
Of course. It's the skill to analyze combat and create tactics. The more raw data you have to work with, the more useful the skill is.
>>
>>3627561
Well if he hasn't he's gonna have to wait because we're tied again.
>>
>>3627589
By my count it's 8-9, no? Want to do a linked tally for me?
>>
>>3627591
I'll switch back to pride to ensure it's not another tie.
God damn it.
>>
>>3627591
Starting from >>3627403 - 7/5/1
>>3627412 - 7/6/1
>>3627414 - 7/8
>>3627419 - 6/9
>>3627422 - 5/10
>>3627487 - 5/11
>>3627531 - 6/10
>>3627557 - 7/9
>>3627580 - 8/9
Yep, my bad. Gonna hit the hay after the next update
>>
>>3627586
>It's the skill to analyze combat and create tactics. The more raw data you have to work with, the more useful the skill is.
Then why the hell do people want to jump straight in? Let me finalize this.

>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3627610
8/9 Pride/SP
>>3627602 - 9/8
>>3627614 - 8/9
This is a rollercoaster.
>>
>>3627622
WHEN WILL THE WILD RIDE END MR.BONES?
>>
>>3627602
This will be a mistake.

Remember that we beat Roland so easily because we figured out and countered each of his NPs as it came up, avoiding three dead-ends.
Alberich performs best after analysis and preparation, rather than by running in and killing shit.
>>
>>3627622
Just close the damn vote already
>>
You know, depending on how we play it off, our apparent inaction might actually serve to wound his disproportionate pride.
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
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>>3627859
>voting to tie a whole hour after
>>
>>3627859
you piece of shit
>>
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>>3627859
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)
>>
>>3627004
>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)

Late as hell, but I'm still voting for the wise thing dammit. Forget analysis, we might need to protect Ayaka from the other master while Berserker fights the others before diving In ourselves.
>>
Thank God, no day-long stalemate.
>>
>>3627937
Until the next group of stragglers comes in.
>>
>>3627602
Back to SP
>>
The idea of leaping forward to fight alongside Emiya and Rider occurs to you, but you make no move forward as Berserker takes form. Considering what Emiya has told you before, he and Rider can survive the enemy's attacks for a time, and that's time you intend to put to use observing Berserker's power. Emiya's group is focused on the enemy; with you behind them, they have no way of noticing your inaction. At di Lumenza's command, Berserker springs toward Rider with a fluid grace, like a pouncing tiger. As he flies through the air from the roof, the wind blows back his cloak and you can see his the true form of his face and hands revealed in the artificial light of the streetlamp.

Berserker is a golden figure; not metaphorically so, but rather a man who seems literally to have been made out of gold. Only his eyes, black without iris or sclera; and the hair which hangs in short copper ringlets from his head, violate this gleaming monochrome. He's not a big man, but the lithe stature that cloak clings to belies the power in his spring. As you learned in the Akeldama, a Berserker can draw power from unknown places. When Berserker's fist slams into Rider's crossed weapons, raised one over the other to protect her, the impact is like thunder, and Rider is sent sliding back.

Status Updated

GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Before Emiya can react, Berserker whips around and slams a kick straight through his gut. Blood spatters the scene in brilliant profusion as Emiya's torso sails up from his body, split off by the impact.. Rider leaps back towards Berserker, but he's too fast for her as well. He slides around her outstretched weapon, closing the distance with a quicker step than hers and grabbing her by the hair to keep her in place. With that head immobilized, Berserker pounds his metal fist into it, three times in quick succession, 'til the form is lost. Rider is tossed aside like a rag doll. It all happened in the time it took you to charge towards Berserker, starting when he broke Emiya in two. You strike too late, attempting to cut through the Servants golden hide and meeting only air. He's sidestepped your field of view; you frantically turn, but that all-destroying fist comes down on your elbow, smashing through your armor and turning your sword-arm into a useless rag.

For the first time, you understand how O'Mordha must have felt facing you. Your mind races to analyze the possibilities of the fight, simulating attacks and defenses, but all end up in the same place: your death. You jump back, avoiding a punch that could take your head off, but even before your feet touch the ground again Berserker is on you. A chill sinks into your brain, and you seize up with the realization of your incoming doom.
>>
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Gold fingers close around your throat. You look up into the metal face, contorted in mindless rage, and Berserker screams triumph as he snaps your neck. Not long after that, you're pulled away from your body with a sickening tearing noise, and as the last vital energy of your life expires you have the unique experience of looking down on your own bleeding corpse, from the elevation of Berserker's arm.

DEAD END

Tiger Dojo is a strange hint corner.
If you would like to beat the game by yourself,
or if you would like to keep the characters' images, please be warned.
>>
"Welcome back," Taiga exclaims, "to the heart-pounding centerpiece of this story! The helping hand for those who were killed by hesitation! The true pillar supporting Fate/Awakening Mirror! It's..."

"The Tiger Dojo!" Illya interjects.

As you blink into consciousness, you realize that you've returned to that training hall with the strange master and student. Here your body seems whole again, fortunately enough, and as you nervously confirm your condition the memories of your other time spent in the Tiger Dojo comes back to you. A shudder runs through you. You haven't taken a direct path to success, that's plain enough.

"It's been so long, Ru-chan," Taiga says, pouting at you with feigned affection. "You've gotten so durable since the last War! Sensei is all alone here, you know?"

"Hmph! Admit it: you're not lonely," Illya accuses. "You're just bored, not having that bloodlust of your satisfied! You greedy tiger!"

Crack!

"Osu! No off-topic comments from a disciple!"

"O~su." Illya echoes the cry listlessly, then recovers her energy to speak. "Well then, why did Onii-chan die here? Berserker is strong, so staying away and watching him was the correct choice, right?"

"Hmhm! You misunderstand, my disciple," Taiga proclaims with a self-satisfied chuckle. "Pride! Guts! Passion! Those are the traits of a youthful protagonist! Whatever you do, commit to it 100%! Ru-chan, there are two correct options when facing Berserker. One is not to face him at all! You've already lost that opportunity. Two: Face him all at once, with your allies by your side! If you hang back and worry, he'll strike while you're thinking about your safety!"

"So in other words," Illya says, "Berserker won because he could fight everyone one at a time?"

"Correct! Alright, Ru-chan, here's your first Tiger Stamp of the new War. You missed out on lots of them last time, but if you can collect 40 of them in this War, Sensei will give you a specia~l prize!"

With that, consciousness once again fades.

>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)

>[ ] Observe Berserker's fighting style against Emiya and Rider (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Do something else (Write in)
>>
>>3628148
>>3628150
Damn.
>>
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>>3628148
>>3628150
Haha oh fuck.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
But I refuse to be enthusiastic about it.
>>
>>3628152

>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)

Well I suppose it was deserved, time to embrace the Saber role and chop Berserker to shit. Hands first
>>
>Strength: A+
>Constitution: A+
>Agility: A++
ahahahahahahaha what the fucking fuck
>Noble Phantasm: B
How the fuck is this even calculated? Mystery of the ages, right here.
If he has only the invincibility, that means it must be Rank B.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
Aw yeah, time to get our sword bootlegged by Shirou (Take 2).
Going straight for the master is probably a bad idea too since if Berserker gets called back we might have to face him alone. Also DAMN his stats are ridiculous.
>>
>>3628153
>>3628154
Hey, at least you have the Tiger Dojo to help you feel better about it. Imagine if there was nobody there, and I sent you back to the choice alone.
>>
>>3628162

Well I can say for certain eating Berserker for the paramater boosts is a great idea

>>3628164

I still doubt that Shirou is going to go for bootlegging HSG due to it being a portal-like divine weapon.
>>
>>3628169
If we get a dead end when Ayaka is killed, will she be in the dojo with us?
>>
>>3628164
>Also DAMN his stats are ridiculous.
We should've expected one of Lorelei's handpicked goons to have access to these kinds of resources.

So a direct contest of strength and speed is obviously unviable, which forces us to use HOS and Kenótis very cleverly so he never hits us directly.
>>
>>3628175
That's something you'll have to find out by experience.
>>
>Divinity C
So he's half-god or something.

>>3628152
>[x] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
>>3628200
>half-god
That would be "B". "C" suggests that his parent, while of divine origin, wasn't a powerful god but rather a lower-ranking deity like a local deity or attendant spirit. Alternatively, he was syncretized with a god and acquired some divinity.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
My instincts were correct.
>>
>>3628223
Just one solid hit.
It's all we need.
Cut this fucker straight in half.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
my guess is berserker achilles
>>
>Berserker only has Magical Energy B
Should've opened up with Cybele, Rider.

Well, at least now we know the worth of our allies.
0.
>It's a Shirou gets killed by Berserker episode
Both got fucking OHKO'd.
Why exactly were some of you more afraid of the FUCKING MASTER?
At least that Parameter Boost from eating Berserker will be very nice indeed.

Here's hoping the cut through anything sword actually works next time
>>
>>3628262
I feel we would put the energy to better use by replicating his invulnerability or even by boosting Conceptual Biology. I think the boost to our stats from the energy will be too low to be worth more than copying an NP or improving a skill.

In any case, we should leave this discussion for the aftermath, once we can see all of his sheet and make an intelligent decision. For now we need to draw up a plan of battle.
>>
>>3628266
>plan of battle
>outnumber him 3 to 1 and cut him in half.
Pretty simple.
Invulnerablity is nice but I feel isn't necessary yet.
Ayaka is a big target.
>>
>>3628268
>>Pretty simple.
Looking at the dead end, not at all.
Berserker is clearly powerful enough that we need to fight him 3-on-1 to have any chance of killing him, and Taiga is pretty clear on the need to commit ourselves totally to the battle.
>>Invulnerablity is nice but I feel isn't necessary yet.
>when Arturia is running around
Anon. It is needed very desperately.
>inb4 "we'll corrupt her"
And what if we don't get the opportunity?
And there are other unknowns like Lancer, Archer and Assassin.
>>
>>3628272
>invulnerablity
>vs Excalibur and A rank strength
Come the fuck on, anon.
It might help against everyone else
But not her.

And no, it is pretty simple.
If Berserker attempts to hit our weapon or block us with his hands. He becomes two seperate pieces of Berserker real quick.

Really, we're up against somebody with terrible affinity against us who only won due to having fuckhueg Parameters and it being a dead end.
Forgetting to activate Kenotis when ģrabbed didn't help either.
He can One Shot us but the same is true of us killing him.
Meanwhile, this guy is Shirou's natural enemy because Shirou can't get a read on him as he's not a sword fighter, and Rider is the greatest jobber of all.
>>
>>3628278
>Berserker's invulnerability doesn't protect him from us
What proof do you have?
>>
>>3628148
>>3628150
How the hell did they get away last time If Berserkers that much faster and can just body them like this?

Whatever.

>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
>6'1"
>97 KG
>BMI of 28.2

>He's not a big man
>lithe stature
Sweets? Is this another Roland situation?
>>
>>3628286
Lumenza claimed that he was testing them, to see how threatening they were.
>>
>>3628284
Because We're using an A-rank Anti-World Noble Phantasm that cuts through anything?
And his Invulnerablity is a B rank NP?

Pretty simple.
>>
>>3628292
>Because We're using an A-rank Anti-World Noble Phantasm that cuts through anything?
True, but what if his invulnerability conceptually counters ours? What if it's an Anti-Purge defense, or it's a reverse God Hand that blocks A-Rank and above?
>And his Invulnerablity is a B rank NP?
My saying it doesn't make it true. You can't judge the rank of an NP from the NP stat unless you know how many NPs are there and what the ranks of the other NPs are -- and even then, do you know how the stat is derived from the ranks? We don't even know how many NPs he has and how the one we've seen works.

We'll have to try HOS on him to find out anyway, but you seem to be inordinately confident in our ability to defeat him even after that dead end.
>>
>>3628297
>what if it's like a reverse God Hand
Don't be stupid, you think Shirou and Rider opened the original fight with Broken Caladbolgs and Bellerophon?

Anon, his NP is either B rank or lower, again, don't be silly.
>what if it's an Anti-Purge NP
like Enkidu's Enuma Elish? What are you even trying to say?
>>
>>3628305
Berserker won't have a NP that is just "blocks every attack ever fuck you lol."
Anti-World is explicitly NPs that are nearly impossible to defend against.
Especially not one only ranked B.
And the defence is the B ranked NP.
Saber is currently only shown to us as C rank as we've only seen IA.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
>>3628305
>>3628308
Anon, the point that I'm making is that we don't know what conditions his invulnerability has. We don't know what it blocks or what it doesn't. We don't even know exactly what Shirou and Medusa threw at him.

Leaving that aside, we can't assume anything from the fact that his NP is B-Rank because it might filter out our attacks with no problem, invulnerability NPs usually being conceptual defenses.
The question of Ranks will only be relevant if the defensive Mystery doesn't conceptually counter the offensive one -- for example, God Hand blocks all attacks with a Rank below A, but while Invisible Air doesn't leave a scratch on his skin Rin's super gems ventilated him because they were A-Ranked gem attacks and thus bypassed God Hand's protection: this means the invulnerability is conceptual rather than physical. An attack that pierced any defense might be thwarted by God Hand if its Rank was below A because its concept of "piercing any defense" would be overwhelmed by God Hand's concept of "fuck any attacks below A-Rank".

So our attacks might be countered by Berserker's invulnerability in such a way.
>>
>>3628319 #
Ok then anon, what sort of defence could both ignore damage from Shirou and Riders normal attacks AND A rank Noble Phantasms other than Avalon, which is an activated ability.
That's likely Riders B rank strength, and Shirou using the C-rank Kanshou and Bakuya.
Additionally, Anti-World is notoriously difficult to defend against.
And our Sword is A rank.
Even shit like creating a mini-world dimension to protect yourself wouldn't stop anti-world
>>
>>3628326
>what sort of defence could both ignore damage from Shirou and Riders normal attacks
Armor of Fafnir, reduces all incoming damage by B.
>Additionally, Anti-World is notoriously difficult to defend against.
>And our Sword is A rank.
>Even shit like creating a mini-world dimension to protect yourself wouldn't stop anti-world.
As I understand it, HOS is rated Anti-World because it acts as a bridge to another World (the IN Realm+the Reverse Side), not because it directly attacks the World (Gaia/Alaya). Not all our attacks are Anti-World: recall that Lückeschwert was rated Anti-Unit.
Similarly, Kenótis is Anti-World because it's a portal to the IN Realm, not because it attacks our World.
>>
>>3628338
some of my post got cut off of
>Ok then anon, what sort of defence could both ignore damage from Shirou and Riders normal attacks AND A rank Noble Phantasms other than Avalon, which is an activated ability.

now you're both arguing the whole conceptual bullshit and saying our attacks don't count as Anti-World despite literally being attacks from an Anti-World weapon?
>>
>>3628328
>AND A rank Noble Phantasms
I can't think of anything, but that doesn't mean Sweets couldn't.

You know what, I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me. Let's just end it here and go back to whatever we were doing.
>>
>>3628340
>now you're both arguing the whole conceptual bullshit and saying our attacks don't count as Anti-World despite literally being attacks from an Anti-World weapon?
As a final word, I'll say that I think you aren't cutting finely enough. A defense might make the distinction between the Anti-World attack and the source of the attack.
Would you call it an Anti-World attack when Gil stabbed Iskandar with Ea? I think not.
>>
>>3628341
>you'll never convince me
Way to admit you were biased in your belief from the start.
Let's look at this from a narrative perspective.
1 Berserker kills Emiya and Rider in seconds
2 Berserker could easily catch us if we run after he's killed Emiya and Rider
3 In order to win this fight, we need to either harm or kill Berserker to force their retreat

Now, if our sword doesn't work, we are in a totally unwinnable situation, as our attack will be shrugged off and the same exact scenario will occur again. Therefore, in order to efficiently move the story forwards, our sword should not be blocked by Berserker, and nothing in story has suggested it should be. Unless Sweets dumped us into a dead end for no reason.
Even the Taiga Dojo is advocating attacking.

Stop trying to justify the poorly thought out Self-preservation vote.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>3628354
There was plenty of valid reasoning for the SP vote, it just didn't work out.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)

>>3628259
I'm on board with the Achilles theory. The only other person I can think of who might be made of gold would be El Dorado, but he wouldn't have the kit that Berserker does, nor would he have such massive stats. I'm guessing he's beefy as shit because he's a Berserker with a huge fame bonus.
>>
>>3628381
>plenty of valid reasoning
So leaving your allies up against an enemy you know they can't hurt to get a read on his fighting style even though we were told he has no discernible martial art is valid reasoning?
It kind of only made sense from the meta perspective of "Shirou and Rider will be ok." Or for some reason believing Berserker is perfectly invincible.
The ritual from Ayaka shouldn't take long to set up either
>>
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>wake up to see our first Dead End
Well, at least it wasn't tied back up.
>>
>>3628399
>Achilles
>Agility A++
FUCKING GODSPEEEEEEEEED
>>
>>3627903
>>3627907
>>3627917
And my Instinct skill was on point.
>>
>>3628422
>same divinity too
F u c k.
>>
>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
Seems I was more right than I thought when I said that always only reacting will get us killed. Though I honestly thought it wouldn't kill us quite this fast.
We gave up the initiative and got forced into defending and reacting so fast that we couldn't really use any of our advantages.
>>
Guess it's time to find out if HOS counts as a divine construct, because if not we are unbelievably superfucked.
>>
Hey Sweets, how would you feel about shorter updates for combat? It'd give us a lot more control and help us adapt our plan on the fly. Like in this case where we voted to wait and see, but then Alberich also charged headlong into battle after waiting for a bit which we wouldn't have necessarily done if we got to vote on it.
>>
>>3628436
Anon, it was a clear dead end.
We charged in after Shirou got punted in half and he still intercepted us.
There was no hope of escape.
The Good news is that hitting Achilles with the realm of the Gods should bypass that pesky invulnerablity.
God I hope our sword counts as a Divine Construct.
Shirou can't trace them so he's out.
Rider only has Divinity E- iirc so she's fucked too.
Only we can touch him.
>>
>>3628399
There is one discrepancy: if it was Achilles then Medusa should've had no problem hurting him.
>>3628430
It should, seeing as it's a holy sword.
>>
>>3628442
Nope.
You need divinity equal or superior to his C.
Only having E would mean he takes half damage.
Medusa has E-
Unlikely to even phase him.
>>
>>3628442
Holy Sword doesn't mean divine construct.
Divine Constructs are super bullshit things not made by human hands, often by Gods.
And luckily, our sword wasn't made by a human.
>>
>>3628443
>E-Rank: 50%
>D-Rank: 75%
> >= C-Rank: 100%
It would logically extend to something like 5-10% for E-, which is token Divinity.

Even if it doesn't, as long as her nail is of divine origin and has a higher ranking than her own divinity -- that's probably not worth considering.

Then again, he never gave us a chance to find out, did he? He dodged Medusa's attack.
That could be because he knew instinctively that Medusa was divine.

And Achilles also has Bravery A+ in Apo...
>>
>>3628460
Achilles is also skilled in that wrestling shit pankration or w/e, and he wasn't exactly acting like somebody unskilled in unarmed combat.

Also Durandal is based on Durindana.
Which is funny.
>>
>>3628471
It being Achilles would also explain his Master's overconfidence against so many opponents.
>>
>>3628448
I believe HOS is a divine construct because that voice that spoke to Alberich when he meditated on it said that he had "given the structure of that divinity which is dead to the unformed substance of that which still lives".
>>
>>3628483
Well let's hope so.
Otherwise "fucked" doesn't even begin to explain our situation.
It also means Shirou can't trace our sword, which is nice in it's own way.
>>
>>3628487
OH.
Should we win, we don't want to take the Invulnerablity.
It's invulnerablity linked to divinity, and taking divinity without express gods permission isn't a great idea.
>>
>>3628492
In that case we should improve Conceptual Biology. I want to see what happens at EX oh WAIT sweets hates gratuitous EX rank skills and would never give us one

Either that or the godspeed.
>>
>>3628492
If gains from taking raw stats correlate to stats of killed Servants then he is perfect candidate for it.
And if we will see enough of Rider than we can copy stuff her too.
>>
>>3628510
Sweets hates unique EX ranks when there's nothing to compare them to.
I think increasing parameters would be the best use of the energy here.
Going full speed racer will make us unbelievably broken.
>>
>>3628516
Alternatively, if he has it, Affections of the Goddess would be excellent
>>
>>3628522
I hope we get a Circe related variant if we do get it. It would seem just so fitting even if she is more an ex goddess.
>>
>>3628460
While we're laying out the evidence, this Berserker's parameters are frightfully similar to Apocrypha's Rider Achilles, save the fact that they're all one rank higher (likely thanks to Madness Enhancement A).
Strength: B+>A+
Endurance: A>A+
Agility: A+>A++
Mana: C>B
Luck: D>C
The only exception is his Noble Phantasm, which is B instead of A+, but that makes sense because Berserkers often have NPs or abilities sealed due to their class. His immortality also happens to be a B-rank Noble Phantasm in Apocrypha.
>>
>>3628526
Would be nice.
Might even increase our Magic Parameter too if we get something like that.
And if it does it puts us at a very impressive...
Strength: A
Endurance: B
Agility: A
Magical Energy: A
Luck: B
Noble Phantasm: A

Of course, it might be different due to our nature and be somewhat stronger, too.
>>
>>3628288
At 6'1" he's still shorter than you, Akeldama Rider, and a number of other heroic spirits. Height is often judged subjectively.
Gold is heavy.
>>
>>3628537
You want some conclusive evidence?
They are both 6'1"
They both weigh 97KG.
>>
If it is actually Achilles it is kind of funny how Sweets spolied it for us few threads back but we never really picked on it before now.
>>
>>3628548
On the negative side, we're up against the second strongest Greek Hero as a Berserker.
On the positive side, we're not up against the strongest Greek Hero as a Berserker.
>>
>>3628436
Shorter updates in combat aren't something I'm averse to doing. In this case, though, you were kind of fucked no matter what.

>>3628548
When did I do that? You're not referring to Circe's line from back at the beginning of Akeldama, are you?
>>
>>3628554
A challenge is necessary for a proper hero and his legend. Judas will probably be really proud of us.
I wonder if he will ever appear in Tiger Dojo now though. He is technically part of us at the moment.
>>
>>3628152
>>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>>
>>3628560
>kill the Emiyas
>instead of Taiga and Illya showing up, it's Judas.
>and Kotomine too for some reason
Oh noooo
>>
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>>3628152
>[ ] Leap into the fray (Pride)
>Bitchbois die
Never be Shinji anons. Glory! Honor!
>>
Remember anons, eveb when times get rough and things look bleak, daddy judas loves us no matter whar
>>
>>3628558
I believe it was somewhere at the starts of Awakening Mirror when we there was talk about FGO, Apocrypha and their representation of greek heroes. Like canon Achilles having pants and so on. Akeldama Teach was also mentioned in comparison to FGO one there for the first time I think. I believe it was you who mentioned him first there, Sweets.
Although I had pretty busy week and might be heavily misremembering some stuff.
>>
>>3628564
>Kotomine Dojo
Throw Eastwood in and you've got a deal.
>>
>>3628569
Oh yeah, when I ranted about how stupid his outfit was.

>>3628570
>Kotomine Dojo
It'd be the Kotomine Confessional, anon.
>>
>>3628574
>Kotomine Confessional
After getting Dead Ended by Circe:
"I am sorry for I have sinned, Father, I have very provoking thoughts about Ogawara (Caster)."
>>
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>>3628565
Well we did have Shinji's voice.
Now however, we have Orange-kuns voice.
>>
>>3628576
>Kotomine gives bad advice on purpose and basically spends every death savouring the look on the face of a man recounting all his failures
Let us not scare away Illya and Taiga.
>>
>>3628576
>after getting Dead Ended by every Servant-tier --or higher-- female that we(incidentally) accrued over time*
fixed
>>
>>3628587
>or higher
FUCK OFF ISHTAR
>>
>>3628537
So what seems to have happened is that every NP except Andraias Amarantos was sealed and Madness Enhancement has drastically increased his physical stats.
Mana C->B and Luck D->C can probably be explained by the Master being Lumenza.
>>
>>3628589
>trapezing through IN Space
>some black-haired thot is trying to seduce me but she's obviously "too old"
>she reminds me of another desperate old hag
>granted she was more reserved
>I want to avoid offending her, because she's probably a goddess, but I don't know how to without coming off as rude
>her haughty attitude isn't helping, either
>>
>>3628577
Narita Ken has a great voice for you. He also did another white-haired bishie antihero, so that's fun.

>Servant-tier --or higher-- female
Maybe someday you can commiserate with Orion.
>>
>>3628614
>be bros with gil by begoning ishtar
>or be bros with the gods by pissing in gil's face
Why must I make all the tough choices?
>>
>>3628614
I can't wait for Ishtar to possess Rin and de-age her.
>>
The question remains, who is the true waifu? Circe or Adelheid?
>>
>>3628650
Yes.
>>
>>3628653
There can only be one
>>
>>3628656
There is literally no need to be. We have enough affection for both of them.
I will say that Circe came first and takes priority, but we should never accept a future where both can't be our side.
>>
>>3628630
It's always fun to piss in gils ceral so that
>>
>>3628664
It really comes down to whether Adelheid is a better waifu u pdo or a better little sister.
And whether or not Circe likes sharing (she doesn't).

The answer is fairly obvious.
>>
>>3628656
Factually Untrue.
Though if Ishtar does take notice of us, then it should be mentioned she could likely possess a compatible host should some opening be made.
I wonder if either of those things are present..

She straight up possessed the Einzbern homonculi in Strange Fake without her being the one summoned.
>>
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>>3628678
>accepting the advances of the foulest wench
>>
>>3628685
>wanting to join Gilgamesh and Enkidu in the No Girls Allowed (except Saber) club
>>
I personally like to think that Ayaka believe herself to be a proper protagonist and curently aiming to clear Fate route of her own.
>>
>>3628679
>Adelheid
>Little Sister
Bruv we already slobknocked with her like twice.
Pedo or not this half measure bullshit is quite disgraceful.

Never get it twisted.
Circe and Adelheid have and will continue to compete for our loins, and the only thing that gets them off each other's backs is a strong opponent, whether that be a rival of love or of battle.

Fortunately, as the pinnacle of both human and superhuman perfection that we are, we can handle both of their needs.
Picking favorites is not the way to do that.
>>
Imagine if Ishtar did decide to possess Rin for a second and Antaglio found out.
He'd have a fucking fit.
>>
>>3628630
This makes me wonder where Pseudo-Servant Ishatar would be on old boy's sexem chart?
>>
>>3628678
>>3628685
>>3628692
She fucked a horse, anons. All of her husbands died gruesomely. You don't want to be with Ishtar, believe me.
>>
>>3628692
>not wanting to smite supreme high archthot ishtar
gudako pls take rinnanna's computer away
>>3628693
"Akeldama" is a no-brainer, so what would Alberich's other routes be called?
>>
>>3628692
>implying
I just don't want to lay with THE Divine whore.
>>
>>3628699
>Manifestation of Beauty: B
Quite high, I imagine.
She might even shift his sexual preferences again.
>>
>>3628709
Nah, she wouldn't be able to override the tendencies we gained from Circe and Adelheid.
>>
>>3628701
>She fucked a horse
Then she should be able to handle us just fine.

> All of her husbands died gruesomely.
I'm pretty sure none of those was her fault, and where caused by actions of other asshole gods and shit

In the end, it doesn't matter since we have Circe and Adelheid, but don't tempt us into doing something stupid just to prove a point.
>>
>>3628705
She's not as bad if she's possessing Rin.
But honestly, spurning her is a bad idea too because of the whole Bull of Heaven thing.
Let's just give her a definite "maybe".
And then run off and hope Shirou shivs her with Rule Breaker.
Hell, it might even de-age Rin too.

Just saying, Imaginary Numbers Realm is fucky.
>>
>>3628713
I sure hope not.
>>3628717
In conclusion, we should stay away from Ishtar until we have more mental fortitude.
>>
>>3628715
>don't tempt us into doing something stupid just to prove a point.
If you do something stupid just to prove a point, I don't think that's really on me.
>>
>>3628730
Fair enough.
Not much we can do in this situation even if wanting to fuck with Ishtar since you control the means of production in the story sense.
No room for the dice gods to intervene on our behalf.
>>
>>3628730
So protagonist Ayaka got me me thinking about her powers so I checked back and
>"Huh..." Ayaka considers the question for a few moments, staring off into space and pursing her dainty lips in irritation as she tries to call to mind a clear explanation. Finally the answer dawns on her, and she speaks up again. "Here's a good example. Mom once told me about a curse invented by our family that settles in and takes root in the cursed person's magic circuits, running off of their Od until it finally kills them. She said nobody could remove it once it was used, and it was one of our best techniques, but that I wouldn't be ready to learn it until I was 36 years old. So that curse, as a part of the Shijou inheritance, is part of my magic crest, right?" She looks to you for confirmation before continuing.
>"Yes," you say, "I should think it would be."
>"It is," Ayaka replies with a nod. "I can manifest the curse by activating the crest and doing a short chant, very easily, without ever having learned how it was originally done. The problem is, I can't send it to someone. Apparently the target was assigned using a special ritual described somewhere in our family papers, but I can't find it. So even though the magic crest does the hardest part of the magic, I still can't use the curse. There are a bunch of other Shijou techniques like that, too."
This is probably the closest lead we have on Saber Alter corruption plan if we can learn to do it too and perfect way to make her more than just a sacrifice ritual helper, learn sacrifice ritual ourselves and give her a proper character development arc.
>>
>>3628727
I do wonder what sort of effect being temporarily possessed by a Goddess would have on Rin though.
>>
>>3628763
Just a temporary case of identity death.
>>
>>3628769
I mean more in the magical sense, but yeah that too.
Poor Rin.
>>
>>3628751
Bullying Ishtar might be amusing, if we ever meet her.
But it's unwise to sperg like Gil.
>>
>>3628814
>Bullying Ishtar
How, exactly?
>>
>>3628682
By the way...
>should some opening be made.
What do you think or sword is, anon?
>>
>>3628834
Yes anon that was kind of what I was referring to.
>>3628827
I don't know, actually.
>>
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>>3628842
>Some gods deign to remember that they can manifest through our sword as Psuedo-Servants
>they manage to come through faster than Shirou can Rule Break them
>>
Now that I thought about it, we could probably billy Ishtar by answering her proposal with a "maybe" and portal out, but then I realized the above.
>>
>>3628702
>"Akeldama" is a no-brainer, so what would Alberich's other routes be called?
What do you mean by routes, anon? Earlier on, some of you folks were referring to the whole quest as a trilogy analogous the the 3 routes of F/SN. In that case, the routes would be called City Akeldama, Awakening Mirror, and NAME REDACTED. If you mean alternative story paths, what's your point of divergence?
>>
I can't wait to kill this fucking Stupid Berserker, but something tells me it won't be that easy.
>>
>>3628897
On the subject of alternate possibilities, had Rushorou summoned a Servant other than Caster, who would have been Caster's master?

>>3628959
If we're right, then Berserker is the fastest hero pretty much ever to live and his speed is also a full rank above what it would normally be as a Servant. It doesn't help that the Iliad is essentially a poem about how Achilles was angry at all times.
>>
>>3629012
He's the fastest servant ever, true.
But all we need is one solid hit and this uppity Berserker is going down.
Our allies have to be good for something.
>>
>>3629012
That would depend on which Servant you summoned. What I can tell you for certain, though, is that Caster would have been Orpheus.
>>
>>3629070

Let's say if we summoned Lancer, who'd we get?
>>
>>3629085
Perseus.
>>
>>3629087

He said it'd depend on the Servant we summoned anon, I'm guessing that'd change with whatever class we'd have picked
>>
>>3629070
So was Orpheus the only Servant you didn't plan a Master-Servant pairing for, and if we took someone else's planned Servant they would have summoned Orpheus instead?
>>
>>3629105
We only got Circe because of waifu favouritism on Sweets' part.
Every other servant should be the same as we saw.
We left it up to a dice roll and Fate gave us Caster.
>>
>>3629113
Thank god for Sweet's good taste then. Imagine a world without Circe.
>>
>>3629112
At this point, I don't remember how much I had planned out in advance, but I know it wasn't all the Masters and Servants at the beginning.
Thinking back, Caster's Master probably would have been a female magus who didn't end up being in the story. I might have slotted him out for Perseus as Truvietianne's Servant, though.

>>3629085
If you'd summoned Lancer, she'd have been Brynhildr.
>>
>>3629153
>Brynhildr
Wew.
I thought Lancer "wasn't a waifu"?
Or am I remembering wrong?
>>
>>3629153
>Brynhildr
Were you planning on waifu summon for every class only to take her away in part 2 to add long term goal?
Mind telling ideas for the rest of Servant classes then? I am interested that was in store for us.
>>
Should we kill the magi?
>>
>>3629311
Would that still allow us to absorb Berserker?
>>
>>3629315
I mean after we've killed Berserker.
>>
>>3629320
Ah right. Forgot it takes them a while to disappear after ganking the master. I bet the Emiyas would be pissed that we killed the Master but I also don't care that much about that.
>>
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>>3629311
Ahem!
>>
>>3629311
Yes. Rejoice!
>>
>>3629326
"Shut the fuck up moralfag."
If we take Berserkers power, they aren't stopping us.
The guys too dangerous to let live.
Probably.
We'll see how it goes.
>>
>>3629311

Anon please, we won't KILL the magi. It'll just be a sudden cessation of brain function
>>
>>3629353
Ah yes, caused by a slice of the brain being sent to another plane of existence.
>>
Honestly if the fight doesn't go well, killing his master is the only real option to weaken Berserker enough to win.
>>
>>3629364
Yes, if only we had some sort of super agile Servant capable of instantly killing Masters by looking at them on our side...
>>
>>3629161
I am a fickle person. When I said that, I think I was trying to spur you on because there was a tie.

>>3629175
Saber and Assassin were unavailable.
Berserker would've been Adelheid, of course.
Lancer and Caster have been covered.
Rider would still have been Blackbeard, for the most "bro" Grail War possible.
For Archer, I think Hippolyta would have been a good fit.
>>
>>3629413
>Saber and Assassin unavailable
>both have like no impact on the war.
Damn dice.
>>
Do you guys think there's any significant added synergy with our cloak that we could explore since it was made from a part of our body? Especially considering the inherently magical nature of our body as a conceptual being. Just a thought.
>>
>>3629351
>The guys too dangerous to let live.
Can't let the overseer know that the Master of Rider healed defeat him, despite being defeated already.
>>
>>3629471
We can see if we can throw him into imaginary number space.
>"Goodbye forever, don't let the Phantasmal Species bite!"
>>
helped*
My point still stands: unless they have a non-lethal method to detain him, we need to kill him.
>>
>>3629479
>letting a human --let alone one so detestable-- into the Reverse Side
Surely you jest. I would understand if it wasn't him because they'd probably be more willing to cooperate for their lives. This guy seems like one of those "I'm gonna tell about this indignation" types.
>>
>>3629510
>thinking a human will survive there for long
I mean, we could just slash him in two, but that's not as entertaining
>>
>>3629524
But very satisfying
>>
>>3629524
Well, they probably(?) could. Granted they would need to be supervised by the more amiable Gods. I'm sure they would be willing to let Ayaka take refuge there if we ask nicely. This is all wishful thinking, on my part.
>>
>>3629565
>amiable gods
Hahaha. At best they get to be some gods plaything.
>>
>>3629575
Not every Pantheon is as Chaotic as the Greeks or Romans.
>>
So how exactly is it even possible for Stheno and Euryale to be summoned, anyway?
I thought proper divine spirits couldn't become heroic spirits, but the two are pretty explicitly killed by the Gorgon, so they shouldn't be around at all.

Is it just FGO being dumb?
>>
>>3629575
not all gods are assholes
For example, Hades is a good boy who dindu nuffin, he'd probably play ball if we sucked up to him a bit
>>
>>3629611
>Is it just FGO being dumb?
This too...
>>
>>3629625
Quetzal is someone who would be hard-pressed to hate humams too.
>>
>>3629635
You're far far more likely to run across something hostile.
Then you add "asshole magus" onto the mix and the guy isn't gonna do great communicating with a god.
>>
>>3629650
Are you doubting the luck of Alberich?
>>
The reason why I'm bringing this up is because we may have to consider putting Ayaka somewhere that Harris can't reach for our battle against Saber.
>>
>>3629686
I'm talking about lobbing people we don't like in there.
Alberich isn't a human and some multidivine avatar called him it's child.
Gods will like him more by default.
>>
You know that last night, Emiya and Rider were beaten without being able to scratch the foe, and had to flee. If Lumenza says he was only gauging their power, he's probably telling the truth; he let them go intentionally, and can kill them now if he pleases. If you want to keep these allies, you'll have to intervene and fight by their side.

At Lumenza's command, Berserker blurs as he springs forward to attack Rider. He's a shadowed streak in the night, moving so quickly that you almost can't follow him. With some enemies, however, you don't need to follow their movements. Berserker is making a simple, direct charge: easier to predict than to track. Instantly materializing your armor, you charge forward to intercept Berserker at the same moment. He covers more space than you do, and faster, but he has farther to go.

Passing Rider just in time, you bring Heiligöffnungschwert down in a straight vertical slice, cutting through the path of the oncoming Servant. Moving too fast to change his course, the ragged black Shadow that is Berserker passes through the attack and around you on either side, perfectly bisected. It's a convenient trait of your new Noble Phantasm, you realize, that its focus has shifted to the Three Miracles. You no longer need to call its true name, as you did with Lückeschwert, to activate its portal edge.

Thus Berserker, for all his apparent power, is defeated by an superior Noble Phantasm. Once again, it seems your only truly worthy foe is that other Saber. And yet, the smile hasn't fallen from Lumenza's face.

"Fuhahahaha! Excellent, Saber," he exclaims in bizarrely euphoric tones. "To circumvent the prevention of wounds by an attack that disconnects, rather than cutting! But you'd best turn and look again, for my Berserker's immortal body will not fall so easily!"

Indeed, the magical presence that should be fading behind you remains. You whirl around, sword still at the ready, to see that where Berserker's slashed remains should lie only the fragments of his cloak pool on the ground. Standing over that shadow is a golden man: slightly shorter than you, with a lanky, slender frame and tightly bound ropes of muscle that seem more cut into the body than built up. Berserker wears a Grecian cuirass similar to those worn by Perseus and Longinus in the Akeldama, and the accompanying skirt, but his head and limbs are unadorned. The metallic warrior grins at you out of black eyes and shining lips, and as you watch he passes his hands over a vertical line in his torso; smoothing out the seam where you cut him, you realize.

"What now, Saber," Lumenza's voice resounds from overhead. "How do you intend to defeat the invincible champion, Berserker?"

Behind Berserker's back, Emiya has taken up a combat stance, wielding two short falchions. Rider, already armed, has stripped off a blindfold that had briefly appeared when the battle began, and stares intently at Berserker; searching for openings.
>>
>[ ] Continue attacking with Heiligöffnungschwert. Perhaps there's a limit to his healing.

>[ ] Try receiving Berserker's attacks with Kenótis, to remove more of his body from the battlefield.

>[ ] Call on one of the miracles of Heiligöffnungschwert (What?)

>[ ] Bind Berserker with the tendrils of Nothingness and flee with Ayaka. This isn't an enemy you can defeat.

>[ ] Do something else (Write in)
>>
>>3629726
>[ ] Try receiving Berserker's attacks with Kenótis, to remove more of his body from the battlefield.
Watch us be too slow to actually use Kenótis and get another dead end.
>>
>>3629726
>>[ ] Try receiving Berserker's attacks with Kenótis, to remove more of his body from the battlefield.
Well if disconnecting him to death won't work, maybe a one way trip to IN land will?
Also, fuck yeah, confirmation that our sword's base stat is now what we used to have to call its name for.
>>
Right.
Let's see our options.
Kenotis we might take an arm but we'll likely still get hit and crumple like newspaper.
Keeping up the attack might actually work if we can get another slice in and attempt to butcher the corpse, but we got lucky.
A miracle like the rift might work, but runs the risk of separating his energy from the grail.
Running seems foolish and I feel binding won't work.
Hmmm.
>>
>>3629753
>>3629762
>using a C-Rank NP
We have something bigger. The question is, which miracle would accomplish Kenótis' job but bigger?
>>
Ok ok
So, assuming he doesn't have an ability that resurrects him if he dies, to put him down for good I would imagine we would need to instantly kill him.
Not easy when you're dealing with a Servant with A+ ranked Battle Continuation, as it would seem we will likely need to destroy both his Heart and Head nearly simultaneously in order to keep him from getting up again.
Unfortunately, this means that sending lumps of his body away is likely off the table. As we wouldn't actually be killing him.
We're probably gonna have to either go for a perfect slash from the heart to the head, or possibly attempt to fire a beamlaser at him.
>>
>>3629726
>[ ] Try receiving Berserker's attacks with Kenótis, to remove more of his body from the battlefield.
Outside of burning a Miracle to take away this guy's godhood or something, it's our best bet.
In my head, this is no different from having Roland's horse run at us, but only time will tell if my assumption is correct.
>>
>>3629809
Are the miracles one use only?
I thought they were just specifying that it can accomplish three miraculous effects.
I mean, I might be wrong.
I also don't think that Kenotis will work here, He's prone to kicking and punching, not full body charging, and we probably need to destroy his heart and head to stop his regeneration.
>>
>>3629726
>[ ] Do something else (Attempt to catch Berserker off guard with the tendrils of Nothingness in order to set up a slash that will cut both his heart and head in half)

I mean, it *might* work. but using Kenotis here is a death sentence, I feel.
>>
>>3629726
>[ ] Continue attacking with Heiligöffnungschwert. Perhaps there's a limit to his healing.
I don't want to try to partially use Kenótis- I think he's small enough so that we can transport his whole body in one go. But if we unveil the ability too soon, the cat will be out of the bag.
>>
>>3629726
>[ ] Call on one of the miracles of Heiligöffnungschwert (What?)
Open a portal to the IR that vertically bisects Berserker through the head and heart
>>
>>3629807
>Not easy when you're dealing with a Servant with A+ ranked Battle Continuation, as it would seem we will likely need to destroy both his Heart and Head nearly simultaneously in order to keep him from getting up again.
Didn't we JUST do that via bisecting the man clean in half?

>>3629817
>Are the miracles one use only?
Yeah, I could be wrong but I believe they're like genie wishes, only less prone to backfire horribly...hopefully.
Not that I'm one for holding off our miracles until we "really need it", but when we have seemingly valid options on the table, I don't see a reason to use them.

>>3629825
>I mean, it *might* work. but using Kenotis here is a death sentence, I feel.
I feel it too, but I doubt we can keep up with Berserker even if his attacks are predictable.
I also doubt our D-Rank magic ribbon will help much against his big stronk A+++++ Strength body.
>>
If this truly is Achilles and not just the biggest red herring of this quest we should be making plans to land a blow on his ankle to deactivate his immortality.
>>
>>3629844
Hmm.
If we open a portal diagonally to IN Space that will cut through his heart and brain and allow the top half to fall through, he should be super fucking dead.
>>
>>3629726

>[ ] Continue attacking with Heiligöffnungschwert. Perhaps there's a limit to his healing.
>As we're battling wave Kenótis around us like a ribbon before leading in with strikes from Heiligöffnungschwert, if he tries to attack then we'll be able to bind him in our cloak and tear him asunder. Masking our cloak's own ability as the blade tearing Berserker to ribbons
>Taunt Magus as well: "Spare me the grandstanding 'Magus'. It's far easier for you to be prideful when the blood is on the hands of a warrior more worthy than you would ever be."

Best we analyze Achilles a bit more, I'd rather not have to waste a miracle right out of the gate for this when we should test further. If this is Achilles we gotta find out what sort of NPs he's packing.

>>3629844

C-Rank and made by Circe you doubtful shit
>>
>>3629850
We don't know it's achilles in character.
Otherwise, It's portal through the heels, bye bye loser.
>>
Sweets, are the miracles one time only?
>>
>>3629726
>[ ] Continue attacking with Heiligöffnungschwert. Perhaps there's a limit to his healing.
Trying different angles could at least work to limit his mobility.

>>3629853
>made by Circe
She lost her Divinity, remember?
>>
>>3629858
If it specifies how many Miracles we have, why would you think they weren't one use? If they were unlimited, why not just say "a sword that grants miracles for an extremely high cost?"
>>
>>3629866
Because we can perform 3 seperate miraculous effects?
>>
>>3629856
I mean his appearance of having the same/similar armor as Perseus and the master calliing him the "invincible champion" seems like it will be any moment we know IC
>>
>>3629866
The "miracles" are separately defined abilities. I don't see why they would be single use at all- rather, they're permanent allowances from the gods unlike the original definition with Durandal.
>>
>>3629866
Also
It does say that
Almost literally "expending a great deal of energy, Saber is able to exert miraculous power over that realm through Heiligöffnungschwert."
I think a rift is our best bet here.
>>
>>3629864

>She lost her Divinity, remember?
>Implying that matters when it was made by the one we love

>>3629858
>>3629866

I think the miracles are just different things able to be done with the sword once we call out it's true name. Doesn't specify a limit it just mentions what we can do with them
>>
>>3629871
My understanding was that they were basically like genie wishes, but
>>3629874
I seem to be pretty wrong about that
>I think a rift is our best bet here.
If we can exert miraculous power, why even bother with secondary methods? Just miraculously kill him flat-out instead of throwing him into a portal where we'd likely lose out on gaining his energy,
>>
We should try to cut his extremities, to limit his combat ability. We can figure out what to do then.
>>
Wait isn't sending a servant with divinity to the IR a really bad idea?
>>
>>3629880
????????
Stop speed reading ffs.
We can
1) open rifts
2) summon things from INS
3) manifest imaginary elements or something, probably a beam sword.
>>
>>3629882
Excellent idea if he didn't just display the ability to regenerate from two halves. >>3629884
That's why we only send half of his brain and half of his heart.
Cut diagonally with a portal so they fall through, leaving the bulk of his body here.
Regenerate from that.
>>
>>3629858
No. Durandal had one-use miracles that could accomplish basically anything you could imagine. It might have originally had more than three, also. In any case, though, it had 3 when Roland held it.
That property of "three miracles" was adapted into the three miraculous powers with specific prescribed effects that Heiligöffnungschwert possesses. I outlined those as three specific miracles in an earlier update, if you look through the archives.
If the miracles were one-use only, you'd have burned one already in practice. Manifesting Nothingness (or Void) in Real Number space is the Third Miracle, remember?
>>
>>3629903
Thank you.
Now with that out of the way.
Can we please get to using our rifts?
>>
>>3629908
There's literally no reason not to, now.
So I'll switch to
>[ ] Call on one of the miracles of Heiligöffnungschwert (form a rift diagonally through Berserker's body, bisecting his heart and brain and allowing the top half to fall through into INS)
>>
>>3629921
Support
>>
>>3629726
Ignore this then
>>3629762
Changing my vote to support this:
>>3629921
>>
>>3629921
Supporting.
>>
>>3629921

Changing to this, hope Ayaka has the ritual ready
>>
>>3629726
Switching
>>3629828
to support
>>3629921
>>
>>3629921
>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Sweets-Loving%20QM
>The power to cut through the boundaries between the worlds, to project from itself openings to Our realm
Just confirming, you understand how this works, right? You're not just going to hold out your hand and have a portal appear.
>>
>>3630012
I'm not expecting it to do that.
Though the use of "form" may have been a bit iffy.
>>
>>3630012
That was my understanding, we gotta cut the rift open
>>
>>3630012
Yep, slice a big rift into the IN realm.
>>
>>3630012
Oh lord, I posted the link to the archive instead of the actual post. What a maroon.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3566389/#p3596002
>>
>>3630032
>maroon
Sweets... you good bro?
>>
>>3630055
https://youtu.be/_NYFq7ZJg4c
What? It's a figure of speech. We said it all the time when I was a kid.
>>
>>3630066
Oh I thought that was meant to be moron. Carry on.
>>
I can't wait for this to not work at all.
>>
>>3630081
gotta collect ALL the taiga dojo stickers
>>
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>>3630076
You gotta catch up on your old cartoons buddy.
Or play more Skullgirls.
>>
>>3630086
I'm holding Illya accountable for the overpowered Berserker trope.
>>
>>3629921
Oh right, I feel like we should get Rider and Shirou to move out of the way, or at least aim it so neither get caught in the attack.
>>
If this doesn't work we should probably try to coordinate an attack with the others. I'm not sure if Alberich knows their capabilities IC though.
>>
>>3630154
>I'm not sure if Alberich knows their capabilities IC though.
We know nothing about them, they didn't deign to tell us.
>>
>>3630154
I don't think we have time for that.
If the last dead end made anything clear it's that we aren't gonna win this fight by running away.
Based on how this Berserker has fought so far, I doubt he'll give us the room we need to make a cohesive plan of attack.
The only thing we can do is improvise.
>>
>>3629726
>NP shafted again
Dammit, will our shit ever kill anyone except Rider's horse?
>[ ] Try receiving Berserker's attacks with Kenótis, to remove more of his body from the battlefield.

>>3629921
While it's clear that feeding hunks of Berserker to the IN realm is our only real chance at victory, I don't think using the sword for the portal is going to work, since it relies on parts of Berserker remaining still long enough to fall through whereas Kenótis lets him thrust them at us with full confidence.
>>
>>3630178
>it relies on parts of Berserker remaining still long enough to fall through
If the rift is torn through him then it's impossible for him to escape without a large chunk of his body missing unless he moves away in the exact same direction of the plane of the rift.
>>
>>3630176
Better hope Shirou or Rider catch that we're about to use our Noble Phantasm and get the fuck out of the way.
We have no idea on the range of this portal
>>3630178
Yeah but Kenotis won't allow us to take anything vital he can't regen, I feel.
If he can slap himself together good as new, Kenotis isn't gonna be fantastic. unless he goes for a full body tackle at us like an imbecile.
And after he loses an arm or leg he then just punches our head off.
>>
>>3630178
>Dammit, will our shit ever kill anyone except Rider's horse?
It did kill Rider too, eventually.
>>
>>3630216
Battle Continuation is fast becoming my least favourite thing in the world to deal with.
>>
>>3630184
True, but the plan is to cut through his brain and heart as cleanly as possible and let them fall through, and he clearly doesn't need his brain to be intact to function since we just cut him vertically in half and it didn't kill. The sword also can't stop him entirely, so if he's striking directly at us most of his body will still carry through with the attack and still be capable of injuring or killing us.

>>3630192
>Yeah but Kenotis won't allow us to take anything vital he can't regen, I feel.
And the sword will? His brain just got cleft in two and it made no difference. He can heal, but he might not be able to regenerate quickly, if at all.
Further, if he loses an arm or a leg, then he has to readjust his sense of balance. Since he's insane, he's severely lacking in skill - Heracles lost all of his sword skill with a B-rank Madness Enhancement, and Berserker is rocking A-rank without anything that can improve his performance like Mind's Eye (False) or Instinct.

I'd also like to point out that Berserker has Battle Continuation A+. His brain obviously doesn't need to be intact for him to function properly, and Cu's is a rank lower and he can still move for a time even when his heart has been destroyed. An instant kill is a pipe dream against this guy.

>>3630216
Yes, but its power didn't. Our sword did reveal our opponent's identity with a single clash of swords, though, so I guess it went pretty well all things considered.
>>
>>3630227
A Servant has two weak points.
It's heart, and it's head/brain
I'm assuming that the only way to get a kill on Achilles here is to either do something we have no IC reason to
Or attempt to instantly kill him through his Battle Continuation A+ by cleaving the two weak points in half and seperating them so they can't just quickly reattach.
I believe anything other than instant death or close to it won't work, his regeneration seems too borked to rely on taking parts at a time.

You know what would kill him?
Gae Bolg
what a great noble phantasm.
>>
>>3630227
Ah fuck, you're right. I thought it was a horizontal bisection. Still going for my vote though- even if it doesn't work perfectly, I still want to save Kenótis for a "finishing" blow.
>>
>>3630247
The difference is, he had the other side of his body to reattach in that scenario
Here?
Not so much.
>>
>>3630238
>A Servant has two weak points.
>It's heart, and it's head/brain
With high Battle Continuation, losing the heart doesn't matter, and losing the brain doesn't matter. I'm not sure that losing both with make much of a difference, especially since
>>3630252
>he had the other side of his body to reattach in that scenario
this will still be a problem if we cut him when he's flying at us. Gravity doesn't work quite as fast as Agility A+ (Cybele, so he's at least being pressured out of one of his +)
>>
>>3630284
I guess we'll see what happens.
It would be more poetic to kill him with the sword forged using Durandal.
Poor Hector had to fight this asshole with Durindana, after all.
This asshole is even more of a cockroach than fucking Clint.
>>
>>3630306
>This asshole is even more of a cockroach than fucking Clint.
You are now imagining Clint with Battle Continuation.
>>
>>3630312
I'm now imagining summoning Tiamat is what I'm fucking doing.
>>
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>>3630320
What's wrong, anon? Why the harsh reaction?
>>
We still haven't gotten frustrated enough to enter a murderous rage that shows our true colors to our new allies yet, which is almost a prerequisite for us to kill someone
>>
>>3630356
Maybe the fact that our sword got no-selled for the second time in a row would help?
>>
>>3630356
Blind rages aren't in our nature.
Whenever we kill it's with cold efficiency followed by a sense of deep satisfaction.
>>
>>3630364
I didn't say blind, but it's still rage.
>>
>>3630356
Eh, if Rider gets too into a fight she literally goes full Monster due to Monstrous Strength.
>>
>>3630368
Our tranquil fury fits aren't really out of place though.
>>
>>3630364
They absolutely are though. Why, almost every time Alberich has killed someone personally he has brutalized either the person or the person's corpse for really no reasn other than murderous rage- as sweets said, Alberich has a real bateman streak. See- Judas, O'Mordha, Keiseki, Joe. The exception is the fight with Rider, where Eye of the Mind (True) forcibly calmed his rage so that he might fight more evenly.
>>
Rolled 1 (1d2)

1 - we actually did something good
2 - we ded
>>
>>3630426
Luck sides with TBD Alberich.
>>
Rolled 1 (1d3)

>>3630426
1 - taiga dojo
2 - we fucking die
3 - kotomine confessional starring Judas as guest
>>
We done for the night OP?
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>>3630545
No. I'm writing.
>>
A shudder runs through you as you face your restored enemy. This thing, Berserker, is inhuman. Of course all Servants are, to a certain degree. A Heroic Spirit is a thing beyond all human capabilities. But this: to stand up and fight, none the worse for wear, after being cut in two? It's something more fitting of a monster out of fairy tales than a hero of mankind's past. For a moment, the impulse to run seizes you. Perhaps Lumenza is right, and his Servant truly is more powerful than any other. What warrior could hold up a sword in the face of that overwhelming strength, that immortal body?

But no, you think. This fear is ridiculous. You, too, are inhuman. You learned it only today, but it is nonetheless true. You're less human, in fact, than the golden monster that stands before you, for you were never human. Never a soldier drawn up from the crowd; never a farm boy headed off to seek destiny; never a prince on a quest to prove himself. You have trodden on humanity; ripped them to pieces and destroyed their best. You have brutalized magi and slain the finest paladin of Charlemagne. Alberich is a life beyond humanity and human legendry, and to triumph over this monstrosity you need only approach the problem with the right frame of mind.

You tighten your grip on Heiligöffnungschwert and steel your mind, putting yourself into that mental state of analysis which enabled you to triumph over Rider. Your enemy is powerful, you know, and can heal as well, but all the same it did come as a surprise to Lumenza that you could cut him at all. This means that Berserker's regenerative properties are a secondary tool; possibly a last resort. His primary defense, that which stopped Rider and Emiya, you have already bypassed. How, then, can you destroy an enemy who can freely reattach two separated halves of his body? The answer comes to you easily, surfacing in a mind now as cold and clear as an alpine stream. Any humanoid, however durable, must have two central points that direct his vital functions: the heart and the brain. If you can simultaneously destroy both, it's possible that there will be no functioning will to direct Berserker's regeneration, and he will simply die. Fortunately, you recall, Heiligöffnungschwert has the power to do just that.

You hold your sword up vertically before your eyes, taking the archetypal stance of a knight as you utter a brief internal prayer to the gods whom you know are watching. The gleaming inscription catches your eye. Ich bin der Schlüssel. Indeed, this blade must be the key now, or without its miracle you will die. Then, as Berserker springs forward to attack, you cut the air in a diagonal strike that traces the line from his brain to his heart, and through the left side of his chest.

"Heiligöffnungschwert!"
>>
As your shout resounds through the night, the black line traced by your blade remains still for a moment, hovering in the air like a bizarre afterimage. Then it explodes forward, launched at Berserker as a crescent hole in the fabric of reality, aimed to scoop out his vitals and leave him dead.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Berserker bends. He does so without slowing his forward momentum, roaring with what you could almost swear is derision as his body twists impossibly. You can almost hear the crunch of vertebrae destroyed by the pressure of that bow-like curve, but no part of the golden form touches your portal. Then he snaps back up, still charging, and too close now to avoid. You step back, but he catches you with a right hook that tears half your helm off you. The mangled steel cuts a deep gash above your right eye as it goes, and while your vision is obscured by the sudden outpouring of blood Berserker drives a knee into your chest. This time the sound of crushed bone you hear is real, along with the breaking of your armor.

The impact sends you flying backward, away from Berserker, but this time he doesn't follow. A chain is wrapped around his arm with the other end connected to one of Rider's strange weapons, and she's hauling back on it with all her strength, stretching the arm out parallel to his torso. It occurs to you, as you regain your balance to spring towards Berserker again, that he moved slower than in his first charge during that attack. He's still faster than you, but perhaps healing has a negative effect on his physical abilities. In that case, there's a chance of victory yet.

Status Updated

"Heiligöffnungschwert!" Not wanting to let a chance go by, you cut the air vertically to send another portal at Berserker while he's occupied struggling with Rider, and this one nearly strikes home. He sways back to put his head and torso out of the way, but the blade of darkness severs his arm just below the shoulder before collapsing the ruins behind the pair. The arm, you observe with disgust, is still struggling in its chain even after being cut away. As Rider leaps back with Berserker's chained arm, the golden Servant bellows rage at you. In a moment, you two will clash once more.

'Saber-san!' In this moment, as you close toward Berserker, Ayaka's voice resounds in your mind. 'We should retreat! Tohsaka-san says she and Rider can delay Berserker so we can all get away. I don't want you to keep fighting; that gold Servant is too strong!'

>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)

>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Answer something else. (Write in)
>>
>>3630579
>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)
Systematically chop off the rest of his limbs, dragging them into Kenotis with our ribbon starting with his severed arm.

He's only going to get more powerful if they keep giving him sacrifices. The time is now.
>>
>>3630579
>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)

Mr. Bad ideas is back.
>>
>>3630594
Hey, don't be so hard on yourself.
>>
Man I had no idea those portals would be projectiles. Cool but not great for the tactic we were attempting.
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>>3630599
Nah its fine, I like my bad ideas.

I need a break from the god damn event in FGO by that yuri loving fuck. If anything they are the one ruining Fate.
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>>3630608
Alright, in that case I have to ask what you were envisioning. If they weren't projectiles, you'd have to be in range to cut him normally, right?

>>3630611
Would that be the new Gudaguda event? Or are you playing NA?
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>>3630579
Hell no. Keep wounding him. If Rider was able to restrain him just now then work with her to continue wounding him enough to deal the final blow to his head and heart.
>>3630587
I like the idea of pulling the limbs into our cloak.
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>>3630619
Right. Forming a fixed stationary portal as we strike him in melee to make every part of his body above the cut fall into the imaginary realm.
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>>3630587
+1.
We can win this if we drag his stats down and take his limbs away from him.
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>>3630619
NA, I am lukewarm on Gudaguda events besides 2 introducing Hijikata, who is drawn by my favorite artist and has the benefit of looking really fucking cool.

Pic related is the real damn Paul Bunyan. Not whatever Riyo's is.
>>
>>3630587
Supporting. Let's see if we can make use of that ribbon.

>>3630622
We slash, and then a portal forms. Something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVBsDVpZb8M
>>
I'm just imagining the gods hanging out in the imaginary realm when they suddenly see holes into the real world where we're fighting whizzing past them and wondering what the fuck is going on
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>>3630634
We are sending body parts there right? I am just imagining one hitting a god/goddess in the face.
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>>3630628
>getting worked up over a gag character
Paul's a good girl and efficient farmer. No bulli

>>3630579
>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)

Should probably deal with him now while Lumenza still thinks his guy's got it in the bag.
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>>3630628
>Not liking Riyo
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>>3630587
Supporting. There's no way Rin and Rider will survive on their own. What's more, our ability to devour him in chunks may make us the only Servant in the war with a real shot at defeating Berserker.
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>>3630642
I just don't like Riyo.
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>>3630630
Since the power is defined as projecting portals from the sword by cutting holes in reality, you can do both.
You'd 100% have died in the last update if you hadn't used it as a projectile, though.
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>>3630579
>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)
I am kind of want to leave him be just so Berserker can cause more chaos in this war but I do trust in our sword being able to finish him off right here since we have good opening to do so.
>>
Oh shit, it actually worked.

>>3630579
>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)
We'll end it thus!
>>
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'No,' you reply. 'I can defeat him. Berserker has lost an arm already. Now it's only a matter of finishing the job.'

You clash with Berserker again, and if Ayaka replies you lose the message in the focus of battle. You step in with your sword low, reading and sliding past a left straight from Berserker to cut at his midsection. Again, though, Berserker is damnably flexible, dodging sideways faster than your sword. You rotate as well to keep him in your sight, but he's moving faster; staying out of your vision. He lands another hook, shattering the remaining half of your lion helm along with the cheekbone underneath.

You leap back to get some distance, cutting a portal into the air between you as you go to stymie his pursuit. Once you've backed off, you realize that the other presences in the area have left. Rider, Emiya, and Tohsaka are all gone, and must have taken Ayaka with them. They've made good on their claim of a clean escape, though it's you doing the holding rather than Tohsaka. Now there are no more distractions for Berserker, and he blurs into motion as a streaming golden spark before your eyes. Whatever was diminishing his speed, he seems to have recovered.

"Heiligöffnungschwert!" Berserker is a straight attacker, you know. Even if you can't see the oncoming strike, you can slice a wide enough portal to intercept it! Cutting in a wide arc, you create a semicircle of darkness to intercept Berserker's legs and leave him a broken torso on the pavement. It's the perfect tactic to defeat this enemy.

If Berserker were your only enemy, at least. But he has an ally, watching from above and giving telepathic orders. Even if Madness has stolen Berserker's ability to make tactical decisions, Lumenza can do it for him. That, presumably, is why the mad warrior dives around your flying portal, coming in low to the ground and knocking the feet from under you. Then, before you can right yourself, the blows from that left arm hammer your skull into the pavement.

DEAD END

Tiger Dojo is a strange hint corner.
If you would like to beat the game by yourself,
or if you would like to keep the characters' images, please be warned.
>>
After being knocked to the pavement, you wake up on varnished wood. You're back in that training hall again, and despite yourself you let out a disappointed groan. In front of you are the master and disciple who preside over your death.

"Welcome back again, in extremely rapid succession, to the marvelous reform school for the deceased, the Tiger Dojo! I'm your instructor, Fujimura Taiga." As ever, Taiga is unreasonably chipper.

"And I'm the number one student, Illya," her disciple chimes in, matching Taiga for energy.

"Hmmm," Taiga says, putting a hand on her chin in a contemplative pose. "Confidence and passion sure are a mysterious things, aren't they?"

"How do you mean?"

"Well, last time Ru-chan died, it was because he didn't have enough self-confidence and wandered around at the edge of the battlefield, not sure when to join the fight. But this time, he died because he got too full of himself and tried to continue the fight even though the allies he relied on wanted to run away."

"So in other words," Illya says, "if you don't have enough confidence, you die; and if you get too confident, you die. When you put it like that, it seems like Onii-chan has a pretty tough balancing act, huh!"

"Fumu! You understand well, my disciple," Taiga answers smugly. "A hero must walk a tightrope."

"Wasn't there another piece of advice you wanted to give him, though?" Illya has a mischievous twinkle in her eye as she asks the question, and somehow you feel you'll wish she hadn't brought it up.

"Ah! That's right!" Taiga's face, usually relaxed and irresolute, takes on the aspect of an angry beast. "You forgot my advice! Ru-chan, just last time you were here I told you to either fight Berserker with your friends or not fight him at all! But when your friends wanted to run away, you kept fighting alone! What kind of lonely death is that to die?"

Crack!

With no warning, she hits you over the head with her shinai!

"Now then," she says more calmly, "next time, take better care of your body. Don't get overconfident. And listen to sensei! Here's your Tiger Stamp."

>[ ] 'No.' Ayaka's worry is misplaced. You know you can chop Berserker's limbs away now. If you can weaken him, you can kill him. Go in for the final blow. (Pride)

>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Answer something else. (Write in)
>>
>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
Fags.
>>
>>3630765
>Fags.
???
>>
>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
We just overestimated our allies. I wish Adelheid was here.
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>>3630770
I didn't expect to get completely left behind, is all. Especially not after Ayaka said they have something that can delay him.
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>>3630782
Well, you seemed so confident...
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>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
Unreliable shitters, you'd think they would see the blow we dealt and realize we were their best hope
>>
>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
That's just great. now we'll probably have to use a less optimal Servant for the parameter boost before we fight Berserker.
>>
Can we like communicate to them that we have a way of dealing with his invulnerability and to keep pressing the attack, or would that be giving away too much?
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>>3630799
Doesn't look like we have time for that considering they're already preparing to run away and Berserker is ready to pounce on us.
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>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
We should really just fire a portal at Lumenza.
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>>3630793
I think that if we approach with a plan we can kill him without the need for a stat boost.
So far Alberich knows:
>Berserker is much stronger and faster than him, but doesn't use any NPs except the passive invulnerability and regeneration
>The others can't hurt Berserker, but he can
>Berserker can recover from any injuries unless the injured part is separated from the rest of his body, but he slows down briefly afterward
>B-Rank strength is enough to restrain a severed arm, seeing as Rider managed to take the severed right arm away
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>>3630818
>>B-Rank strength is enough to restrain a severed arm, seeing as Rider managed to take the severed right arm away
Rider was probably using Monstrous Strength in addition to Cybele there.
But, yeah, the rest can't touch him.

Well. Now we have some idea on how to beat Berserker. At least.
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>>3630763
Jesus, how on rails are we for this fight? The VN-style dead ends are cute but it makes it seem like you're waiting for us to come up with this one tactic that you decided beforehand or we just lose. Getting left behind made no sense and our plan was solid if they hadn't left us.
>>
>>3630831
Maybe you guys shouldn't try and disregard our Master's retreat order.
I too, miss having reliable allies.
>>
>only Rider contributed anything of worth in that fight and she barely did anything
Why did we team up with them over any servant and master in this war? Really doesn't seem worth the added risk to me so far.
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>>3630840
>Rider saved us from getting killed and Cybele was lowering Berserker's parameters
>barely anything
Anon?
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>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
...why would they retreat the second that the fight started to take a turn for the better?
>>
>>3630848
Also, what do you expect Shirou will be able to do? Only Divinity or Divine constructs can harm this asshole I would imagine, and Shirou doesn't have either of those.
Rin is even worse off.
This Berserker basically counters the entire crew.
Only shot for Emiya is a triple linked crane wings to hit his Achilles Heel, or somehow getting UBW up, which he probably doesn't even have.
Rin is pretty much just fucked.
Rider could attempt a Pegasus Charge.

This Berserker is broken.
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>>3630849
Because the fight taking a turn for the better is what allows you the opportunity to retreat.

>>3630831
>it makes it seem like you're waiting for us to come up with this one tactic that you decided beforehand or we just lose
Interesting. Since that isn't the case, I'll have to work on my presentation.
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>>3630763
>[ ] Answer something else. (Write in)
Use our decent Charisma to rally the team to help us and use the plan we chose in the last vote with their help.
>>3630851
I think everyone but Rider will be similarly helpless in a fight with servants so I don't see the point of working with them instead of allying with someone who's actually in the grail war and working with their servant. They're not worth the added risk of the overseer having us killed at all so far.
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>>3630853
I think anons are just salty that we couldn't 1v1 Berserker.
I was asleep when we were voting, but it wouldn't have made a difference.

>>3630831
Imagine if this was following the plot of SN and we were playing Saber there and Heracles no sold Excalibur and killed us. It's the same sort of shit. Berserker is always a pain in the ass to fight no matter what unless it's a trash Berserker.

Also, retreat is really the best option when you've got multiple people who can't even touch your opponent and your opponent can kill them all in a single blow.
A proper battle plan decided by all the members of the group should be devised before attempting to actually tackle this Berserker.
Though honestly, I think that the group is gonna be pretty certain about his identity after a discussion, leading to attempts to go for the heel.
Maybe Mr "I have to try to miss the target" can put some of those fucking archery skills he's so great at to work.
Hrunting should do the trick.
>>3630864
>that write in
Seriously? You want to give a speech in the middle of a deadly melee where our opponent can instantly kill us? Also Shirou and Rin aren't this helpless normally, It's just that this Berserker is a hard counter to non divinity.
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>>3630868
But!
On the bright side
This isn't Heracles, so our weapon won't just cease to work on him.
Unsure if it counts as a Divine Construct though.
Being Anti-World sure fucks over defences though.
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>>3630824
Recall that people with B-Rank Mana may be petrified if "they are incautious". If she was using Cybele, we would begin to be petrified or would at least be under pressure as well.
It seems more likely that she wasn't using Cybele (not even a mention of it).
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>>3630882
>Rider leaves
>"Whatever was diminishing his speed, he seems to have recovered."
It was Cybele.
Hell, we even noticed her taking her blindfold off.
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>>3630883
Huh.
>>
It's fortunate Shirou has already fought Heracles once before so he should know who this Berserker is, just by process of elimination.
And if for whatever reason Rider doesn't bring up the obvious apparel worn during her time, we might just have to bring that up.

Also I think Rider still has Berserker's arm.
Did she just fucking run with it?
Will probably make a pretty decent lure, actually.
Or we can send it through Kenotis forever.
>>
Honestly, our allies are 100 percent justified in wanting to escape.
They just saw us fucking bisect him to no effect.
It looks like a hopeless battle.
We need a proper plan for this.
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>>3630908
My first plan would be to find out how good Lumenza is at dodging or healing our ranged cuts. Not as good as Berserker I suspect.
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>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
I knew it wouldn't be easy, but i'm kinda peeved that it simply can't be done at the moment.
Not that this venture was a complete loss as we were able to find out some pretty valuable info about the enemy.

But I'm really hungry guys. And that Berserker was looking like a whole snack.
>>
Positives and negatives as a result of this fight
+++ Sword can cut through Berserker
+++ Discovered the bullshit rift shooting we can do
++ Learned probable identity of Berserker
++ Likely increased Emiya factions opinion of us by intercepting Berserker
? Shirou probably saw our Sword
-- Didn't kill Berserker
-- Showed some of our abilities
--- Shirou can see Kenotis

Maybe Rider can stop fucking bullying us now.
>>
>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)
Turns out thw guys who's entire legend is about him getting mad, is pretty fucking strong when he's mad
Also fuck the emiyas those faithless cunts
>>
>>3630908
There are two ways to win here:
>Restrain or distract Berserker while someone else goes over to kill Lumenza or snipes him;
>Take off his limbs and then kill him by cutting both the heart and the brain.
The first method has obvious holes (Lumenza can dodge the attack or use a Command Seal to recall Berserker) so I'll go with the second -- although it is still possible (but difficult) to make the first method work.

Berserker is very strong and fast, which forces us to restrain him in order to dismember him. The only ones capable of restraining Servant-level entities are Rider and Alberich, so that pretty much makes them the core of the plan; Shirou will act as an additional distraction for Berserker, while Rin will be on guard duty keeping Lumenza from taking cheap shots at them.

Alberich and Rider will tie down Berserker with the chain and with lots of ribbons, which will give Alberich the opportunity to remove and isolate his limbs and then bisect him.
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>>3630922
Our sword is a divine construct so he can't really copy it
kenotis is a maybe though
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>>3630924
It was our Master's order that we ignored.
You can't really blame them for running considering how much of a disadvantage we're in, we can't just shoot off infinite rift slashes either.
We have also taken some pretty serious damage at this point too.
Our Helmet is fucked, we got a horrible gash and some of our bones are broken.
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>>3630926
That's not entirely true.
It's likely Achilles, so the third way to win would be to have a talented archer hit jis heel.
Shirou is pretty much the greatest living archer.
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>>3630927
We don't know if it cut because it's a divine construct or if it cut because it displaces instead of cuts.
It's more likely to be the divine construct thing, I feel.
Otherwise Caladbolg II could destroy Berserker
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>>3630932
Alberich doesn't know that, and we don't know if Medusa figured it out.
We had to compare his sheet to Berserker's to prove it.
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>>3630938
Come on.
It's pretty obvious.
"Invulnerable + Immortal Grecian Hero with incredible stats and divinity" can only mean Heracles or Achilles.
Except Heracles would have A rank divinity.
Also they've met Heracles already.
A discussion will quickly discern his identity
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>>3630922
The bullying will continue until morale improves.
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>>3630942
I'll give you that, but do you want Shirou to get the last hit? There's a chance (admittedly small) that it might not give us the energy because we didn't do it or it wasn't sacrificed to us or some such bullshit.

Ignoring that, if we do it personally Shirou is free to put pressure on Lumenza so he doesn't pop a Command Spell and undo all our work.
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>>3630949
Having the magi pressure his Master is a decent-ish idea, as long as he doesn't summon Berserker to him.
We could also learn how to manifest nothingness swords and go for a heel stab from behind his back with one.
>>
Wait.
>If Berserker were your only enemy, at least. But he has an ally, watching from above and giving telepathic orders. Even if Madness has stolen Berserker's ability to make tactical decisions, Lumenza can do it for him.
If this is the case, why wasn't anyone running interference on Lumenza?
>>
>>3630959
Because our allies kinda sucked in this fight. And I guess they could get stomped pretty hard by Berserker if they went after his master and he used a command seal.
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>>3630959
We had no plan.
Now, however, we have his arm and a girl who has a tracking spell.
We can re-engage them whenever we like, with a proper Battle plan.
Of course, they may also follow us.
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>>3630960
I mean, everyone sucked in that fight.
It's Berserker.
I wish Circe were here to help.
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>>3630959
Everyone but us have already legged it from there at that point.
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>>3630961
I say we cut a finger from the arm we have and discard the rest into Kenotis.
Unless we don't get to keep the arm.
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>>3630962
You give the Emiya's way too much credit.
I'd think the first thing people would do when it's clear you can't attack the enemy directly is fight the Master.
In this fight we are left carrying the team, with some support from Rider.
And Shirou and Rin just standing there.
Ayaka is just standing there too, but she's just a young girl, as opposed to the two Grail War veterans that are standing there gawking. Not saying I don't understand why, but I guess I hoped they'd have more combat sense.

>>3630963
I mean before that. As soon as humpty dumpty started putting himself back together.
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>>3630971
Shirou and Rin aren't really the sort to just suddenly murder the enemy master, annoying as that might be.
The two were very likely on guard against Berserker rather than focusing on his Master.
For good reason.
Had they targeted Lumenza then he could've just aggro'd Berserker onto them and pretty much instantaneously killed them.
Also Berserker was far too fast for them to deal with.
Even we could barely keep up ourselves.
>>
We should go after lancer or archer now, eat some fresh food and get stronger to fight this bullshit
>>
>>3630974
I would add that additionally their presence stalemated them and Lumenza. He only focused on helping Berserker after he realised we have good chances defeating him and all other enemies who might have gone for him vacated the area.
It is not like our Master is Harris who would have killed Lumenza since we potentially bought enough time for somebody like him to pull this off. Like he did earlier.
>>
>>3630974
Like I said. I know WHY they chose to just stand there, I just wish they could have figured something out, even if it failed.
Maybe a two pronged attack with Emiya working close range and Rin doing some spellcasting or something.
If they could have spread Lumenza's attention while Rider held Berserker and Alberich went for the kill...well maybe we'd still bad end, but it would have been a way more satisfying death and left some impression that the Emiya's aren't dullards.
>>
>>3630979
>>3630981
The key is balance.
If they're too aggressive then Lumenza will recall Berserker, but if they're too passive he'll take action against them or against Ayaka.
>>
>>3630981
We don't know what they were doing anyway.
Our attention has mostly been focused all on Berserker. It's possible that Rin has some jewels prepped in case Berserker attacks and Shirou...
Well, I don't know what the fuck he's planning on doing with Kanshou and Bakuya.
>>
>>3630987
>We don't know what they were doing anyway.
Well based on what happened they had no plan to help us deal with the enemy, and if they did, it has yet to materialize into something useful.
>>
>>3630763

>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)

Well not a complete loss. Got a proper idea of who Berserker and his master are, the kinda NPs he has and how much of a shit he'll be to kill. Shit he'll be quite a problem if we won't be able to get rid of him quick

I suggest we should go chew down on Lancer next. He and Assassin are now the only ones we don't know, so best we deal with the spearman soon. I imagine he'd be a nuisance if we can't get him finished quickly, man I fucking hate this Kayneth 2 cunt and can't wait to turn his head into pink mist
>>
>>3630992
I am pretty sure after we escape they have already planned solid speech to scold us and our powers.
>>
>>3630995

>This post

Why would that even be a possibility? The fuck are you talking about?
>>
>>3630992
Well, from what we know of Berserker, he's invulnerable to anything they can throw at him and is almost imperceptibly fast.
It's not like we came here expecting to fight Berserker. Deciding on a retreat after something so obviously fatal like CUTTING HIM IN HALF VERTICALLY didn't work is probably the wisest course of action.
He's faster than even Rider, and he's unbelievably powerful physically.
How can you plan against that on the fly?
Maybe UBW or Fate route Shirou, or EMIYA could come up with something, but HF Shirou is living a quiet life where he doesn't throw himself into conflict to save random people and is thus far less experienced than one of his retarded counterparts.
And Rin wasn't expecting this to occur either, and while she's intelligent and fantastic at magecraft, she's not actually a tactical genius.
It's not like they knew our goal was to try and strike trough his Heart and Brain at once, either.

There's also the fact that our cloak might be throwing them off somewhat.
It looks veeery familiar to them after all.
>>
>>3630993
>Kayneth 2
>can't wait to turn his head into pink mist
Do you think he would go ahead of himself and not be able to handle the situation in the next round just like that?
>>
>>3630999
Ok Anon, go to sleep.
I think you might be having a stroke or attempting to make a head pun.
>>3630995
???
Do you mean our cloak?
Or firing off our portals which were actually fucking working.

Oh right
We diiiid kind of destroy the ruins, eliminating the purpose of the mission.
>>
>>3630999

Anon you're not answering my question
>>
>>3630995
>scold us
>the only one who did anything significant at all
Anon, they have no ground to stand on and they know it.
>>
>>3631002
We only "collapsed" the ruins, so there could still be something with sufficient energy to track down the perp with.
>>
>>3630997>>3631004
Just channeling some left over salt into the future.
And as other Anon said, I do mean our clock and possible reading they might got on us regarding our IN connections which might translate into some pressure since they are probably just as frustrated after this fight as we are. I do not expect Emiyas to be level headed after this one.
>>
>>3631005
We saved their fucking lives too, actually.
This is a massive gaffe for the Master of Berserker.
His (probable) strategy has completely fallen apart.
>encounter opponents
>allow opponents to attack Berserker to gauge if they can effect him or not, if not, they aren't a threat and can be dealt with at any time, whilst they are also unaware of Berserker's identity other than him being hard to hurt
>suddenly Saber comes out of nowhere and cuts the fucker in two, revealing greek style armour after Berserker puts himself back together, showcasing immortality.
When you're running Achilles, having your servant's identity known is one of the most harmful things you can have happen to your plans.
That's likely one of the reasons behind the cloak, too.
>>
>>3631009
>Cloak
"IT'S A FUCKING FASHION ITEM OK? MY WAIFU MADE IT FOR ME FUCK OFF."
>IN connections
So what? Our sword is fucking awesome.
I want Sword Autist to think our sword is cool.
>>
>>3631016
"I ALSO PAID A HANDY PRICE FOR IT"
...that will be the last pun.
>So what?
While we have shown great performance in comparison to them. I do believe we might rise some more red flags for them due to how they might see us from their point of view. Thats all.
>>
>>3631019
Not only that, we ran into the fight in order to fight Berserker for the sake of protecting our allies.
I doubt anybody was expecting us to just dash in front of Rider and cut him in half before he attacked.
>>
This thread is now bigger than Part I. Yay.
>>
>>3631028
Shitposts and Dead Ends will do that
>>
>>3630763
>[ ] 'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let's go.' Even missing an arm, Berserker is ridiculously powerful. You'll find more advantageous circumstances to kill him; for now, saving your skin is what's most important. (Self-Preservation)

I'm disappointed with the Emiyas, but no crying over spilt milk now I suppose. Also, Heiligöffnungschwert is fucking amazing and we still have yet to use it's full portfolio of abilities. Awesome.
>>
>>3631055
>Heiligöffnungschwert is fucking amazing
Wait till we learn Nine Lives from the god.
>>
>>3631058
>Nine Lives
Tsubame Gaeshi would synergise much better.
>>3631055
It's a fucking excellent sword.
I wish it was A++ though.
Or EX.
If Shirou can't trace it, I wonder what he will think.
>>
>>3629725
>To circumvent the prevention of wounds by an attack that disconnects, rather than cutting!
Actually how did he know that?
>>
>>3631067
>3 slashes vs 9-100 slashes
And it's much easier to meet Heracles than to meet Kojirou.
>>
>>3631080
Presumably he figured "if the sword cut Berserker in half when it shouldn't be able to, then it must have done X to circumvent Y"

>>3631083
>He doesn't want the reality-folding slashes
The only problem is that Tsubame is inherently a human achievement, at odds with Alberich's quite inhuman nature.
>>
>>3631080
>berserker is invincible! nobody can hurt him + oh fuck, this guy just cut him in half = his sword must've done some freaky bullshit instead of cutting
is my guess.
>>
>>3631080

You know, that's a good question. Could be more of a danger than anticipated in fact. Still he doesn't know the whole extent of our nature or the full power of Heiligöffnungschwert. So he's not TOO much of a problem in any case

>>3631083

>3 SIMULTANEOUS slashes vs. A BARRAGE of 9-100 slashes

In any case I believe that our best option to go for at the moment is to find where Lancer is, Wait shit what are the chances that bitch Archer master has gotten Rider's Master a new Servant?
>>
>>3631088
>he doesn't want to be bros with heracles
We could probably ask Judas to summon the guy and then kill him, yeah? real quick-like
>>
>>3631083
>3 perfect slashes that are completely undodgeable and occur simultaneously whilst taking no additional energy
Vs
>NP that hits 100 times in rapid succession.
Both are great, but Tsubame is better generally whilst Nine Lives is only good for major overkill.
>>
>>3631090
>Spoiler
Meat's back on the menu boys!
>>
>>3631088
>Presumably he figured "if the sword cut Berserker in half when it shouldn't be able to, then it must have done X to circumvent Y"
I would agree, but he's pretty specific here. Portal cuts aren't exactly common in mythology. I would have rather guessed that our NP has a cut anything property and is just stronger.
>>
>>3631093

We should go for doing some introspection to speak with Judas, after a battle against Berserker here where even Heiligöffnungschwert hadn't done much save slice him vertically which he got back up. I'm sure that since Judas' work is making heroes, he'd be a good guide for us to gain more power

>>3631096

What's the chance he summons Circe and he treats her like Shinji did Rider? How fucking pissed are we gonna see Alberich then?
>>
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>>3631094
But you can use Nine Lives with any weapon, while Tsubame Gaeshi is specifically a sword technique.

That said...
>>
>>3631088
>done X to circumvent Y
We still don't know if that's the case or if it's because of it being a divine construct.
If it's the displacement doing it, Shirou needs to fucking fire a Caladbolg 2 already.

Then again, most Divine Constructs are very easily recognisable, so he might just be assuming.
>>
>>3631099
Akagata most likely can't break the Grail enough to summon more Servants, but she COULD give Lancer or Assassin to Haruo.
>>
>>3631100

>100 Simultaneous undodgable slashes
>Used by a sword that is able to slice through anything by the power of portals
>>
>>3631105
Assassin is probably the einzbern servant, lancer is up in the air though
>>
>>3631103
>We
We know, he doesn't. my reasoning is in >>3628319, let's not get into another argument
>>
>>3631090
>>3631096
Does it really matter if it happens? Lancer changing Masters have no effect on us whatsoever.
If anything she can find some sniper spot on nearby skyscraper and order Archer with command spell to do normally impossible shot at Ayaka.
>>
>>3631099
>chances he summons Circe
I mean, she's somewhere around Tokyo already.
And he'd just die.
Remember she fed us magic transformation Kykeon as a test.
>>
>>3631099
>I seriously, seriously doubt both the summoning of Circe and Harou being that that scummy of a dude. He does actively reject being a magus after all.
>>
>>3631099
The better question would be is how pissed would Circe be?
>>
>>3631111
It means Lancer will go from neutral to designated hostile. That would either deprive us of a potential ally or leave Akagata open to betrayal.
>>
>>3631105

Don't know for certain, so best not get the hopes up since this war is one of the fuckiest of them all

>>3631111

Nice quads, and I doubt that Sweets would be that much of a cunt to us for that.

>>3631113

True, but as I said can't be sure what with how fuckey this war has been so far. It has some fairly strong Servants from what we've seen so far.

Artoria, Roland and Berserker Achilles are signs of shit being off I'd think.

>>3631118

Don't need to be a magus to be a scumbag anon, it's a fact of life.

>>3631119

Banish him straight into Tartarus tier?
>>
>>3631122

That'd depend more on the Lancer themselves than anything else. Actually, what're the chances Lancer is Brynhildr? Since Sweets made mention of her I wonder if he plans to use her in this war...probably not but it's an idea
>>
>>3631124
>Artoria, Roland and Berserker Achilles are signs of shit being off I'd think.
Uh.
Those are all normal summons.
>>
>>3631127

I know, but with these three it's fairly bullshit. Roland was the easiest among them and he's head paladin for Charlemagne. I'm saying that if the level of power these Servants have for this war is any indication things are gonna be a bit more bullshit from here on out
>>
>>3631136
Most grail wars turn out like that really.
Nothing out of the ordinary there.
Everyone summons bullshit.

Oh and Shirou really doesn't want to trace our sword and have it in UBW.
Putting an opening into IN space directly into your soul is begging for possession.
>>
>>3631136
Don't forget that Archer is probably Odysseus or somesuch equivalent motherfucker. I wouldn't call this grail war fucky so much as I would call it super-competent. Which makes sense- the magi have already fucked up five of these buggers already, figures they'd be really really serious on try #6.
>>
>>3630971
>I'd think the first thing people would do when it's clear you can't attack the enemy directly is fight the Master.
And you know they didn't do this... how?
You didn't see Emiya, Tohsaka, or Lumenza at any time save the very beginning of the battle and at the end, after Emiya's group had left. You were focused on fighting the regenerating gold Berserker in front of you, but that doesn't mean everyone else was just standing around eating popcorn.

>>3631080
>Actually how did he know that?
It's because he's an elite combat magus highly skilled in on-the-fly magical analysis.
>>
>>3631149
Idk, the serious summoners all brought their A-Games this time. Fully empowered Artoria, Berserker who doesn't die when he is killed + completely insane physical stats, and whatever is going on with Grecian Archer. No more clocks set early.
>>
>>3631149
So what are the odds of Shirou getting possessed by somebody like Hephaestus if he puts an opening to Imaginary Number Space into Unlimited Blade Works, do you think?

Better hope it's a Divine Construct, Shirou.
>>
>>3631149
>>3631151

Fair enough, but I'm saying more along the lines of given the competition there has to be more than JUST the Einzberns cheating this time around. Gotta be something REALLY huge to have this war become fucked like the last five.

>>3631165

I think Ares would be more inclined to possessing a living arsenal of weapons
>>
>>3631124
Compared to "didn't have command spells or rules", "summoned angra mainyu", "angra mainyu tried to kill everyone", "the masters are working together instead of fighting so have seven more servants", "there are two wars at the same time" and "it's on the mooooooooon", "caster replaced himself with a saber" isn't very fucky.

Most of the fuckery is specific to Alberich.
>>3631154
>spoiler
Damn you, Lorelei!
>>3631168
ares is a bitch boy and shirou would kick him out instantly
>>
>>3631168
>REALLY huge
I'll take Akeldama for 500, Alex.
But yeah, Shirou really does not want to be able to trace our sword.
>>
>>3631175
>Caster replaced himself using 1000 sacrifices with Saber, who brought friends
Is super fucky, however.
Adelheid is very likely the arson culprit, so that's what I'm basing my assumption here on.
>>
>>3631186
>Adelheid is very likely the arson culprit
*sigh*
>>
>>3631168
The biggest cheatyface is us, actually. Seibah, Roland, and Achilles are all valid as is, and Judas can be a bit iffy but Hero Creation EX I guess.

Odysseus and/or (lawd i hope not) Archer Herk too - extremely stacked, sure, but not something you'd have to undergo super fuckery to get a la Alcides.
>>
>>3631189
Let's go through our options then!
Not Saber.
Highly Unlikely to be Archer.
Lancer is an unknown
Rider is dead
Assassin is likely Lily's servant, not the sort to go about burning houses for no reason.
Berserker has no fire attacks or anything.
Caster is dead.

This means that the event THAT BEGAN OCCURING THE NIGHT WE WERE SUMMONED could only be Lancer or possibly Archer.
We also need to explain the Bad Luck stuff which sounds like a classic Caster technique to gather mana to me.
>>
>>3631197
Additionally.
New grail = evil aligned servants can't be summoned.
Very very few servants will agree to eat people for mana.
Rider might but she's kind of a monster.
>>
>>3631197
I refuse. I am not discussing this. God above, there are already 2500 replies in this thread and I am not rehashing the same argument we've already had about something we've no control over.

>>3631194
>When the false saber, composed of a thousand sacrifices + 5-7 servants, starts communing with the gods and eating the energy of other servants
>>
>>3631207
That's just because you don't have any refutations.
Literally no argument.
>>
>>3631207
>I refuse. I am not discussing this.
Then you probably should not make replies like this.>>3631189
Because that looks a lot like you want to.
>>
>>3631197
Anon, the arsons can very easily be the work of berserker's master
berserker is also in no state to deny free mana seeing as he is fucking insane
>>
>>3631212
>Because you cannot deny my specific outlook on reality, which has no affirmative arguments other than assumptions about entities which we for the most part lack any knowledge about, and which is mostly based in wishful thinking about...
No. There is no new information to work with ATM with regards to this, so no.
>>
>>3631219
Impossible.
We know the fires are a servants work.
Shirou would be able to recognise the culprit, also.
And he's met Berserker already and knows it wasn't him.
>>
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>>3631207
>5-7
>-7
YOU CUT THAT SHIT MISTER
>>
>>3631220
>ignores all evidence
>calls it "wishful thinking"
Wew
>>
>>3631228
You forget to count Judas and the extra Assassin.
>>
>>3631207
6-8 actually, judas is part of our soul after all
>>
>>3631228
He's even wrong about that number lmao.
He forgot about Judas and Longinus, which is 7.
Also iirc didn't Sweets say somewhere that had we killed them during Akeldama we should be stronger?
Akeldama shouldn't have the capability of instantly killing everyone within, otherwise Judas would've just immediately have had us kill him.
>>
>>3631234
Ah, I did forget that. I wonder what direction our first conversation with Judas will go in.
>>
>>3631154
>And you know they didn't do this... how?
Because I assumed based on what we know about Lumenza being in control of Berserker's more intelligent actions, that Lumenza was doing such when Berserker was able to dodge and weave out of the way of our attacks.
Meaning that Emiya and Tohsaka weren't dealing with Lumenza in a satisfactory fashion.
Now it could be that they really did try but were unsuccessful, but that still means that their actions have done little in terms of taking down the enemy unless I'm completely off the mark. Which based on your comment I just might be.

Either way, I look forward to hearing what they've been up to since my assessment of the situation was apparently wrong. Maybe Lumenza is super tough?
>>
>>3631237
>"why are you inside me?"
>"because when i'm inside your mindscape i can conjure up as much mapo tofu as i please, here have some this is the good shit"
>>
>>3631237
>I wonder what direction our first conversation with Judas will go in.
Father and son bonding.
>>
>>3631242
>Father and Son bonding
"FUCK YOU DAD WHERE ARE MY WAIFUS. YOU'RE NOT EVEN MY REAL DAD, THE GODS ARE WAY COOLER."
>>
>>3631239
>Maybe Lumenza is super tough?
You are now imagining that the master of Berserker can easily no sell the attacks of some combination of Ayaka, Rin, and Shirou- and that he can do this while keeping track of and giving good orders regarding the Rider/Saber versus Berserker fight.
>>
>>3631242
Yeah, """bonding""".
>>
>>3631239
>Maybe Lumenza is super tough?
He's one of Lorelei's elites from her brigade, the people who go hunting DAAs with her. This guy is as dangerous as it gets, and he could probably hold his own against a Servant bent on killing him.
>>
>>3631242
>Judas and Alberich playing baseball inside of Alberich's mindspace.
Fun!
>>
>>3631247
>FUCK YOU DAD WHERE ARE MY WAIFUS
The only question we should be asking here.
>>
>>3631250
>could probably hold his own against a Servant bent on killing him
Nah. The average DAA and a Servant are about equally matched iirc.
Even Kiritsugu and Kirei in their primes die easily to Servants.
They hunt DAAs with fuckhueg teams iirc.
The average DAA also doesn't tend to have Magic Resistance.
>>
>>3631257
I didn't say "defeat" or "match", I said "hold his own". He can approach the physical prowess of a Servant long enough to, say, run to the Church.
>>
>>3631259
You're really overestimating magi in general here.
He can't escape from a Servant if the Servant doesn't want him to and he can't defend himself with his own Servant.
He can try and run like a bitch and get cleaved in two.
>>
>>3631265
Anon, he managed to keep himself safe and direct Berserker at the same time when Shirou and Rin were both attacking him. Or did you not read >>3631154?
>>
Let's be frank, you folks didn't think I was going to cast someone as Koyasu if you had the capability to execute he and his Servant on the first encounter, did you?
>>
>>3631290

Not really, but I figured we could at least have done a bit more damage to Berserker
>>
>>3631284
Neither Shirou or Rin are servants and he was only personally directing Berserker after they had left.
>>
>>3631294
We cut him down to size anon. Unfortunately, he doesn't die when he is killed.
>>
>>3631290
It is just fun screeching at Emiyas.
I am still somewhat surprised that Rider died in first encounter like that as I said before and I very much prefer this level of bullshit Servants and long running Grail War. Makes it much more fun.
>>
>>3631290
I didn't expect to even really win.
I was expecting more of an epic fight that leaves both sides battered which is only broken up by a standstill brought about by sunrise situation, rather than a "you're fucked, take what you can and leave!" situation.
>>
If only it didn't take Shirou countless years of experience as a Counter Guardian to know to start a fight with Caladbolg.
>>
>>3631312
Speaking of that first dead end, wasn't that just amazing? Shirou going sky high, getting Omae wa'd , and this line for Medusa is perfect in its simplicity.
> 'til the form is lost
>>
>>3631331
Bunch of fuckin jobbers.
>>
>>3631296
>>Neither Shirou or Rin are servants
>splitting hairs this finely
Holy shit.
>>he was only personally directing Berserker after they had left
>Berserker bends. He does so without slowing his forward momentum, roaring with what you could almost swear is derision as his body twists impossibly.
And how do you suppose he did that?
This, by the way, was before Ayaka told us to leave.
>Even if Madness has stolen Berserker's ability to make tactical decisions, Lumenza can do it for him. That, presumably, is why the mad warrior dives around your flying portal, coming in low to the ground and knocking the feet from under you.
In a way similar to how he did it in the Dead End, too.
>>
>>3631340
>Strength: A+
>Endurance: A+
>Agility: A++
At least Achilles isn't 6'10", because then he'd be a super-giga-ultra Chadvent.
>>
>>3631331
It was especially sweet due to how much of build up we had before about overwhelming danger of Emiyas. And it is just "puff" and they are gone in an instant.
>>
>>3631344
You can't be a Chad if you are too busy pounding face into pound pussy.
>>
>>3631358
Their entire faction is some variety of Glass Cannon.
Shirou in UBW has near-unmatched offensive output.
Yet he's unlikeky to be able to summon it.
>>
>>3631331
>>3631358
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I've really been working to improve my depiction of violence since starting the quest, and I hope you'll continue to get a kick out of future dead ends.
>>
>>3631393
>Their entire faction is some variety of Glass Cannon
Agreed.

So, do you lot agree that Alberich needs that agility buff ASAP so Alberich can slice and dice Berserker as we please?
>>
>>3631398
The Shirou death was just that perfect balance of "o shit" and funny. Reminded me of an old story from Iraq.
>>
>>3631398
Your writing certainly keeps failure fun.
That's not something you get from your average quest.
>>
>>3631399
We can use one, certainly, but we shouldn't get it from an enemy Servant. There are much better uses than a rank in agility.
We ought to train a bit instead.

However, I think that killing Berserker without the boost is possible if we go in with a good plan.
>>
>>3631413
>However, I think that killing Berserker without the boost is possible if we go in with a good plan.
I agree. Should we bulli Rider into training with Alberich using this fight?
>>
>>3631431

Absolutely, and of course get Shirou involved as well since hey gotta learn to deal with two on one battles. And it'd help to grind things up faster, in general we need to set up a training course. After that we delve through magic and learn EVERYTHING possible
>>
>>3631413
I hope training works.
If we can increase our stats just with training, Berserker will seem less insurmountable.
Though if we find some way to increase Luck or Mana, we should take it.
>>
>>3631445
Mana likely requires direct Servant empowerment. Luck I imagine is static, unless maybe we can copy another servant's integral luck.
>>
>>3631453
I'm not massively worried about luck.
If we impress the gods enough I can see it rising.
Or we can try to appeal to a luck god.
>>
>>3631413
>However, I think that killing Berserker without the boost is possible if we go in with a good plan.
I feel like magic is our best bet here.
Berserker have no Magic Resistance and we already saw how he moves and fights so predicting him will not be a problem. It is only that we can`t match him physically because of his ridiculous stats. By adding useful magic tricks which his Master do not expect us to use we can we easily create an opening we need for our sword to do its job our or even discover some other way to dispatch him related to our godly potential in magic which we ought to utilize.
>>
Agility is pretty clearly the most important physical parameter to upgrade.
Strength and Endurance would be nice but our sword sort of demands speed.
>>
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I can't wait to be barraged by wisdoms when we get back together...
>>
>>3631612
questions*
Fuck my phone.
>>
'Alright, Miss Ayaka. Let us go.' You reply with ill humor, frustrated at the interruption. The battle against Berserker was just beginning to look up! Yet, you know it would be foolish to continue fighting alone if Rider and the others retreat. There would be no-one to distract Berserker, and that was an act that saved your life a few moments ago. 'Where are you?'

'I'm behind you now, on the other side of the street,' comes the reply. 'I circled around through the ruin to stay out of the fighting.'

Slamming a heel into the pavement, you stop your charge towards Berserker and reverse. As you draw back, you see him still struggling with Rider. She's tossed the writhing severed arm aside, and now has both chains wrapped around his remaining arm. Some kind of magic circle appears below him, but you turn to look for Ayaka rather than watching more. Hopefully she's right, and whatever tactic Rider and Tohsaka have worked out will immobilize Berserker long enough for everyone to make their respective escapes.

You find your Master taking shelter in some family's front garden, across the street from the ruins as promised. Amazing, you think, that the inhabitants; everyone in the area, in fact; have avoided being woken up by the fighting; but then, this was a battle planned by the magus Lumenza. Perhaps he used some sort of wide-range magic to ensure that all potential witnesses would remain asleep.

Landing on the front step, and inadvertently crushing a potted plant under a steel boot as you do so, you sweep Ayaka up into your arms again and leap from there to the roof. Without looking back, you continue your flight in the same direction, putting as much distance between you and Berserker as possible by wringing all the speed you can muster from your legs. At this point, there's no option but to commit fully to the lone escape; Ayaka's position was such that trying to regroup with the Emiya party would force you to confront Berserker again, and you have no idea how reliable Tohsaka's delaying scheme is. There seems to be no pursuit, however.

As you move from house to house and block to block, you reflect on how truly vast Tokyo is. Growing up, "you" had always taken public transit or been driven, or else walked around your own small neighborhood. That kind of childhood forms a mental image of the city as a set of nodes: small, well-understood areas linked by long stretches of metropolitan rail. Going on foot over these wide stretches of housing, occasionally punctuated by commercial centers, gives an entirely different impression. It's as if you're sailing over a great sea of humanity; a tiny mote of independent movement, borne aloft over peaked-roof-waves and seafoam chimneys.
>>
How many souls there are here, you think, and something predatory stirs within you. The beings sleeping unaware in these fragile shelters are, in a sense, a great mass of energy waiting to be consumed. Yumigawa Rushorou once heard someone say over 36 million people live in the whole of the Tokyo metropolis. 9 million in the original city alone. If you became this much greater than humanity with only 1,050 sacrifices, how much power could you have taken had the whole of Tokyo been pulled into Akeldama? More than enough to destroy that savage Berserker, to be sure.

"Saber-san?" Ayaka's voice pulls you out of your musing. She sounds concerned. "I haven't felt anything from my command spell in a while now. I'm sure you can take a rest. You're hurt, aren't you?"

Now that you stop to pay attention, she's right. You can no longer sense the strong presence of a Servant anywhere nearby. You come to a stop on an anonymous roof, sending a few tiles skittering away with the impact of your boots. Come to think of it, you should dematerialize your armor as well. With no enemies around, all it's doing is weighing you down. You set Ayaka down on her feet beside you and let your equipment fade, staying dressed only in the tight-fitting black shirt and pants worn beneath the plate.

"Thank you, Miss Ayaka," you say, "for pointing that out. You roused me from a moment of woolgathering."

Rather than confirmation, the girl's response is a sharp gasp. Ayaka is staring at you in wide-eyed horror. More specifically, her eyes are focused on your chest. Bewildered, you look down to see why, and suddenly realize how much you've been suppressing the pain. Your chest is a bloody mess, now it's no longer hidden by the remnants of your cuirass. Most of the damage is internal, done by the blunt force of Berserker's knee, but that isn't what shows. What's captured Ayaka's horror is the carnage created by hundreds of steel fragments digging shallow, ragged holes and gashes in your flesh. It's a horrid sight, even if the damage is superficial, and it's clearly hit the girl hard. She has a hand over her mouth in horror, and looks as if any moment she'll drop into a faint.

You catch Ayaka by the shoulders to support her, and carefully guide the girl into a seated position, lest she fall from the roof. As you go, you murmur, "It's alright, Miss Ayaka. I'll be fine. A Servant's wounds heal quickly," in a quiet, reassuring tone. You aren't lying to reassure her, either. Now that you're no longer fighting or running, you can feel the mystic energy that supports your existence going to work closing your wounds and mending your broken bones. The long cut over your eye had even sealed up while you were fleeing. It's a fortunate thing, to have a Servant's vitality. Even with Circe's restorative potion, healing was more difficult in the Akeldama.

"You mean you'll really heal from that?" Ayaka sounds understandably doubtful.
>>
"Servants possess a similar constitution to familiars," you explain. "You can maintain a familiar's form by expending mystic energy, correct?"

"That's true," Ayaka says hesitantly. She still can't meet your eyes when speaking, her gaze focused on your bloody torso.

"There you have it," you say. "Servants are the same way. I may not be able to get up after being cut in two, as Berserker can, but I would be a sorry excuse for a Saber if I couldn't heal these wounds. We'll sit here and wait, and I'll quite unscathed in but a moment."

That was hyperbole, of course, but not in the extreme. The two of you remain sitting, side by side on the rooftop, for a bit over a half-hour before you're completely healed. Ayaka stays close to you as you wait, resting against your arm as if she's worried you'll disappear. Given that you're responsible for her safety, you suppose she has good reason for such concerns.

Finally you feel the last fragments of bone slide back into place, the last patch of bruised tissue return to a pristine state, and the last of the pain vanish completely. You get to your feet, stretch briefly, and dematerialize your bloody shirt to demonstrate the lack of wounds beneath.

"Behold, Miss Ayaka," you proclaim with a bit of humorous melodrama, "a knight untarnished by wounds!"

"Er, yes," Ayaka says, blushing furiously. "I'm glad you could heal so well." She trails off.

"Oh, that's right!" As a memory suddenly occurs to her, Ayaka reaches into a pocket of her coat and pulls out some sort of charred fragment of porcelain. "While you were fighting Berserker, and his Master was busy with Emiya-san and Tohsaka-san, I managed to go through those ruins and find this!"

"What is it," you ask, scrutinizing the object bemusedly.

"A piece of a dinner plate," Ayaka answers, "but that's not what matters. It's been suffused with the energy of the Servant that burned that house down! With this, I can track them down!"

>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)

>[ ] "That's wonderful, Miss Ayaka. Once we return home you should perform the necessary magic, so we can confront that Servant tomorrow night." (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Say something else (Write in)
>>
>>3631670
Oh boy...
>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
>>
>>3631670
Carpe diem.
>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
>>
>>3631670
>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
I hope Berserker has called it for tonight or else we're gonna be in deep shit.
>>
>>3631670
>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
If we wait another night, another house full of civies is going to get toasted. I'm sure the Emiyas will understand if we don't wait for them on this.
>>
>>3631704
>I hope Berserker has called it for tonight or else we're gonna be in deep shit.
We still have option of using our tentacles to restrain him or any other Servant we may run into.
It was a possibility in >>3629726
>>
>>3631722
Yeah... Let's try that when we're not alone.
>>
>>3631670
>If you became this much greater than humanity with only 1,050 sacrifices, how much power could you have taken had the whole of Tokyo been pulled into Akeldama? More than enough to destroy that savage Berserker, to be sure.
Damn buddy, calm down. I know you Neutral Evil, and you aren't wrong, but hot damn.

>I managed to go through those ruins and find this!
>It's been suffused with the energy of the Servant that burned that house down! With this, I can track them down!
Someone, please give this girl some head pats. THE NIGHT IS SAVED!

>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
IT'S DINNER TIME!
>>
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>>3631778
>IT'S DINNER TIME!
OH BOY!
>>
>>3631801
>Watch it be Adelheid or worse, Lily.
>Watch us lose our lunch, but not allowed to be mad cause we found something else that we were looking for anyway.
I mean, I wouldn't even be mad. But damn if i'm not starving right now.
>>
>>3631801
>>3631810
Wanna hit local Orphanage on our way back? I heard they added drive-thru.
>>
>>3631821
The only thing that can satisfy my hunger is Servant ASS!
And maybe a magi or something, I don't know.
>>
>>3631670

THANK YOU AYAKA FOR SAVING THE NIGHT, A NEW MEAL TO BE HAD

>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
>>
>>3631821
Too bad Judas can't hit us up with some orphan juice.
>>
>>3631821
>>3631837
Orphan juice is for starving stray Servants like poor Gilgamesh there! You have a Master, you don't need any!
>>
>>3631670
>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
I wonder if the Emiyas got away safely.
>>
>>3631670
>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
It sure would be funny if we ran into lancer and it was fucking lugh and we jobbed again
>>
>>3631670

>[ ] "Can you perform the necessary magic here and now? If we can confront that Servant tonight, the evening may yet hold triumph." (Pride)
I wonder, could we do some kind of bootleg presence concealment by activating our cloak while it covers us? Our magical energy signature could be projected into the IR instead of our surroundings in the real world. Maybe.
>>
>>3631722
>>3631722
>Our D-Rank magic is gonna stop Berserker's A+++++ body
Nah buddy.
>>
>>3632010
Lack of experience didn't stop the Shadow from fucking everyone with it's tentacles.
>>
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>>3632027
Geez, anon, wording.
>>
>>3631994
>Lugh
I don`t think you can summon him since he is a proper god.
Personally hoping for Guan Yu.
>>
>>3632036
>wanting ANOTHER Servant with Battle Continuation
>let alone one derived from a factual human that practically had Battle Continuation
Do you want our sword to get no-sold out?
>>
>>3632036
I'm hoping for Lu Bu Lancer.
He'd make a stronger Rider though, probably.
>>
>>3632033
It's true, it did so like an educated prostitute.
>>
>>3631778
>"Damn that Judas! How dare he sacrifice 1050 people to empower me!"
>"He should have used 36 million people instead!"
Alberich please.
At least our Master can fucking prioritise the mission, so now we know why she was so ready to pull us out.
>>
>>3632145
Well, you got angry about it while you were still thinking of yourself as human. It's easier to care in that situation.
>>
>>3632036

Please Anon, we can go for something more bullshit than just Guan Yu

>>3632076

Well he'd still be pretty good as a Lancer though
>>
Maybe lancer is hector? That way we cna have a big rematch between achilles and hector
>>
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>>3632207
>Hector vs Berserker Achilles
What did this man ever do to you and why do you hate him so much?
>>
>>3632215

Maybe he killed his butt buddy? I'M ONTO YOU ACHILLES YOU FUCK

In any case should it be Lancer, let's hope for some good skills to take or some fine NP to add onto Kenotis. Or just a good one to take in and of itself
>>
>>3632266
>Maybe he killed his butt buddy?
You mean Patroclus?
Yeah, he did.
God, what a cool guy, that Hector.

It's a shame it's confirmed there's no Gae Bolg in the war. That fucking spear is unreal.
>>
>>3632277

Hey, I'm sure this Lancer has something that matches or even surpasses Gae Bolg in fuckery. In any case should figure a proper NP that would fuse together with Kenotis.

I'm now torn between either getting Achilles for the Parameter boosts or his invincibility NP
>>
>>3632301
>his invincibility NP
It's tied to his divinity so it's not a good idea.
Either we take it and it's worthless until we get divinity or or we take it and we also get the divinity.
Gods won't appreciate it if we take divinity without asking.
>>
>page 9
New thread soon?
>>
>>3632301
Definitely Parameters.
>>
>>3632445
I'll be putting today's update on a new thread, yes. This one is getting ponderous.
>>
>>3632301
Watch it be Scathach. Sweets said no Gae Bolg (Forma de Doggo), but what about Alternative?
>>
>>3632488

Then why don't we fuck hergive her a true warrior's death?
>>
>>3632488
Impossible.
She's not dead.
We could probably stumble upon the Land of Shadows if we fuck about in INS though.
>>
>>3632501

I'd love to train under Scathach, add some fucking flavor to Alberich's portfolio of an older variant
>>
>>3632499
>fuck her
TOO OLD REE, best hope Primordial Rune lets her de-age herself.
>give her a true warrior's death?
Not unless we throw a Shiki at her we won't.
>>
>>3632525

I have, and will forever continue. To hate lolis
>>
>>3632532
Blame A rank Charisma Girl continually kissing us for mana.
>>
>>3632532
Wow. Wow. I am amazed you've stuck with this quest. You must've been happy when Ayaka showed up.
>>
>>3632541

That I do, I just wanna have Alberich to expand his horizons you know? There's plenty of better options out there
>>
>>3632554

Hey Adelheid is fine, I just hate that she affected Alberich's taste this drastically
>>
>>3632532
>I have, and will forever continue. To hate lolis
Alright, so, I have to ask. Were you around for Gulag-Trapped QM?
>>
>>3632555
>second part of spoiler
>t. Ishtar trying to influence us beyond the veil
>>
>>3632566
Haha.
>>3632558
If a hag wants to steal Alberich's heart, she's going to have to try very hard.
>>3632568
>Ishtar
What if we take Ishtar... and put her into a loli?
>>
>>3632566

Ehhhhh I was but not for long since I got hit with work to not keep up with it.

>>3632568

Dionysus actually, I can get going for the young ones time to time. But exclusively? My boy it's just asking for trouble to pop up
>>
>>3632582
Interesting. He gave up over a fight among players about a loli heroine, so I was curious.
>>
>>3632595

I just can't get behind it really, namely since I have six nieces and lolicon is something that triggers a primal no reaction in me. Doesn't matter the justification, if it looks like a little girl I'm going to waifu it no matter what. So really it isn't so much lolis themselves but waifuing them that I don't like

But I can't change what's already done here, so I gotta swallow it down and accept it happened.
>>
>>3632582
If a hag wants to win Alberich's heart they are gonna have to try very hard to make him change his preferences.
Even the incredibly beautiful Medusa only ranks as a C.
>>
>>3632614
>If it looks like a little girl I'm going to waifu it no matter what.
Lmao.
Way to mix your message.
>>
>>3632614
If only you'd been there during Akeldama to push Rushorou towards the Truvietianne route...
Perhaps you'll meet with more success in the future.
>>
I don't want to waifu Lily.
It's more an urge to protect than a wish to waifu.
>>3632631
>the Truvitianne route
>talk to Truvi
>she becomes unreasonably pissed off and leaves
>>
>>3632614

>Not going to waifu it

>>3632624

You knew exactly what I mean't shitman.

>>3632631

Honestly I have my doubts I'll be able to change anything Sweets, I'll try but success is highly unlikely
>>
>>3632637

Exactly, a child is mean't to be protected. Never waifu'd
>>
>>3632639
You can always try and get Ishtar to possess Rin.
>>
>>3632631
Don't give him false hope. The Truvi route self-destructed halfway through Akeldama when the dice gods said no to that one dead end. As I recall, you yourself said Lancer's death closed it off.
>>
>>3632641
The difference is though that Adelheid has all the memories of a 50 year old and Circe has thousands of years of memories as a Goddess.
Technically, they are the ones in the wrong for seducing a newborn.
>>
>>3632647
You could've chosen not to walk into Keiseki's trap.
Anyway, how is that false hope? All future routes are still open. I hope you folks don't feel like I'm restricting your options.
>>
>>3632647
It's possible that it might have opened up again after she was told that the war was a scam.
Hell, we were even considerate enough to tell her everything at the end of the war and suggest her taking Longinus until the idea got shot down.
Then we probably appeared to have died in ending Akeldama.
>>
>>3632655
And I'm not sure about Liliesviel, but Einzbern homunculus tend to not show their true age. So if she's like Ilyasviel who was older than Shirou then she's not really young either.
>>
>>3632660
>You could've chosen not to walk into Keiseki's trap
Now that's not quite true.
We weren't actually given the chance to refuse the plan after we questioned them further.
>>
>>3632644
>>3632655

I could, I would love to see the petty god dickery between Circe and Ishtar for who likes Alberich more.

Age of consent gets fucking strange when it comes to Fate I'd say, so I base it on which ones look like a child? If they do then nope not going for them ever.
>>
>>3632660
>You could've chosen not to walk into Keiseki's trap.
I think it's a bit unfair to say that when none of us, not even you, thought that choice was going to be a route selection choice until the dice gods dicked on your plan with two crits. I call it "false hope" because even if that anon had been in Akeldama and pushed for Truvi like it was the only thing that mattered, that vote would still have obliterated any chance at the Truvi route because of a pair of dice rolls.
>>
>>3632708
Alright, alright, fair enough. I won't argue the possibilities of the past any more. Maybe it was unfair of me to write that scene that way.

Update and new thread: >>3632709



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